Like Limpballs claiming our 'credit worthiness' would go up!

Republicans in Congress are not only holding the country hostage — demanding trillions of dollars in spending cuts before they will agree to raise the debt ceiling — but are increasingly denying that defaulting on our debt would even have negative economic consequences. Politico investigated this disturbing trend of “default denialism” in an article on Tuesday, pointing out that the claim is based on fringe conservative theories that have seeped into the political mainstream.

On his radio program yesterday, Rush Limbaugh blasted the Politico piece, proudly embraced the “default denier” label, and then went a step further — by claiming that not raising the debt limit would actually improve the nation’s credit rating:

LIMBAUGH: Today I claim the mantle. I proudly and honestly come to you today as the Mr. Big of the default deniers. We will not default on anything. And moreover, it is more likely that the country’s creditworthiness would go up around the world since we would finally be doing something to address our out-of-control spending and indebtedness if we were not to raise the debt limit. We would be perceived around the world as serious for a change, and responsible for a change. Otherwise we are headed for junk bond status.

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/05/18/rush-limbaugh-debt-ceiling/

These morons live in a parallel universe & are playing a VERY dangerous game of chicken!

Only in a Republican world would a US default be a good thing. Taxes for the poor> good. Taxes for the rich> bad. Healthcare for the sick, BAD. Healthcare money to the wealthy (insurance co's) good.

Would everyone PLEASE get rid of these idiots in the next election!!!!

Oh... we'll get rid of some idiots alright... but it's likely not the ones you are thinking of.

No, Default would'nt be a Good thing, that would somehow Make Elected Officials ""Walk the Walk"! What is needed is for Elected Officials to what thier sent to DC for:

Represent Americans that sent them there!

If You Stand for Nothing, You'll Fall for Anything!

Bev:

These are the same people that wanted us to bomb the crap out of Libya, claiming it was OK. These people have lost the moral and ethical compasses years ago.

They just want to destroy this country and do not give a sh!t who gets hurt in the meantime. Time will give them all their just rewards, just watch what comes down the road in their direction. We will see how funny they think it is then.

That's funny Navy... your last post sounds like a second grader...

JUST YOU WATCH IT... YOU'LL GET YOURS YOU BIG BULLY!

Hahahahaha!

As I read the posts above it is the same old same old... lefties spinning.

Are you people so intelectually challenged that you are unable to grasp the REAL message he was giving?

Let me spell it out for you... S L O W L Y....

What he is say is that unfortunately we seem to have reached a point where the ONLY thing that will bring politicians to do what they NEED to do is a catastrophe like defaulting on our debt.

There... that wasn't so hard now was it?

With the likes of the uneducated and undereducated and completely clueless 'leadership' in the Republican Party, who in their 'RIGHT' mind would take a chance on what would happen if we just removed the safety nets and walked the tightrope in a 24 man pyramid?

I hardly think we should be willing to roll the dice with this particular brand of 'genius' opining on what may or may not happen. I like my facts straight up and my matters of long term fiscal policy on a Macro and then Micro analysis; not some bassackward bufoon's 'take action then wait and see' approach. It is just a slow reel disaster film like attacking Iraq. These idiots clearly have NO idea the ramifications of their Rush to Action behavior.

Unintended consequences to them is that unprotected sex led to pregnancy only once during the nine months their teenager was pregnant.

Color me unimpressed with the morons lining up behind the pitchfork "just do it" class of governance.

Forgive them, Father, they know not what they DO! and please deliver us some critical THINKERS,...these 'shoot first, ask questions later' goofballs are an embarassment.

It was an idiotic statement.

That said, we hit the debt ceiling on !on day- and nothing happened. Why? Because revenue is still coming in to the government, so interest payments are still being made.

Spending needs to be cut. Period. The congress needs to learn to live within the means of the taxpayers, who are sick to death of the constant deficit spending.

Oh, and Navy? It is OBAMA who is, as you put it, "bombing the crap" out of Libya.

Why do you try to deflect that with which you disagree on the other party?

I overestimated the right-wing nuts. I didn't think anyone was this stupid.

SickOfTheBickering

That's funny Navy... your last post sounds like a second grader...

JUST YOU WATCH IT... YOU'LL GET YOURS YOU BIG BULLY!

Hahahahaha

If that's the case then the GOP/T-Baggers and FOX NOISE sound like toddlers.

FOX NOISE blurs the line between child's play and seriousness.

You can pick up where the dumb blondes and the male dunces left off.

FYI: It's OKAY when you have a child's mentality; so don't be afraid.

Yep - It'd be much better to keep incurring more debt.

Although if you have kids, perhaps you should ask them how they feel about it. After all it is they who will bear the brunt of the insane debt already accumulated.

Say Clara - perhaps you you enlighten us uneducated republicans as to some of the unintended consequences of 1. the existing debt, and 2. piling on even more debt.

Turmoil. I like that. Turmoil as in, 300 million pissed-off Americans storming the halls of Congress with pots of boiling tar and a truckload of feathers?

That's the kind of turmoil I envision. I wonder if the antique gun store down the way still has that WWII bazooka. I'd love to do a solo performance of the 1812 Overture. :|

The debt ceiling is a paper-push manuever in order to allow the U.S. to borrow more money. It has nothing to do with the credit worthiness of the U.S.

Did you think this country was not going to hit a borrowing ceiling one day? If you were to borrow the maximum from your bank that your net worth allows for and went back for another round; they would reply "You are maxed out".

It may have been raised in the past but we just happen to be living when it was time to pay up. It was going to happen ONE day.

let's go dancing.......hulalala

i feel very sorry for these ignorants.......what a generational waste.

Ah but see my silly libbie friends, reality as already started to set in. Take a gander at the muni bond market. Seems there is little to no confidence in that market by investors.

So the consequence for my friend Clara is that no one wants to buy the bonds, meaning the cities can't raise the money, meaning the services are being eliminated.

Now just apply that the the US bonds and the spending screeches to a halt. You all see that, right? Of course not.

All is well, no need to reduce deficits. Just raise that ceiling and everything will be oaky-dokey.

Clara KCMO

Unintended consequences to them is that unprotected sex led to pregnancy only once during the nine months their teenager was pregnant.

Color me unimpressed with the morons lining up behind the pitchfork "just do it" class of governance.

That is so LOL funny. The darker side of me agrees with you because it is true.

"As I read the posts above it is the same old same old... lefties spinning."

And, it's ONLY the left, correct? Never guys like JAS1, NoJo, Joe Albany, et.al. ? Guess I need to pay closer attention.

Spanky,

I don't want to annoy any pigs. Suffice it to say, you probably can't fly. Although, I've stated numerous times where to raise the taxes and where to cut the spending - at least to get things started. When Republicans insist on protecting tax sales they announce in no uncertain terms they are NOT serious about reducing the debt. It's that simple.

PS. I will be in Lake Havasu in a couple of weeks for a quick visit and need a good place for lunch. Any suggestions?

So..during the last two years of recession, we were being told that it's bad or wrong to default on our mortagages, even if the value of the house had plummeted way below the value of the mortgage note - you signed up for it and need to stand by your word.

Here we have our congressional leaders telling us that default from THEIR standpoint can be a good thing. Hmm..talk about mixed signals.

If you used the same logic for everything, then perhaps its best to get pregnant so that you have to make the tough choices about abortion, adoption, etc vs. just learning about contraceptive control and practicing safe sex ahead of time?

How about our congressional leaders learning how to manage and lead the country PRIOR to a crisis occuring? Is there an intelligence agency that can help our governement see and forecast a future issue so that we can have a corrective action BEFORE we step into the doggie doo?

Or are we to believe that its only with their backs against a wall that our leaders will do anything?

Government leaders: You kick the can down the road because you're not there to lead. You are there for sound bites and the power trip that comes from being a Congressman/Senator. All you worry about is the media, what commitee you sit on or chair and your next election.

I guess you do ;-)

Nah... seriously... both sides spin... that's the nature of it.

But what gets me is that the spin coming from the right tends to be about bigger issues, stated calmly and articulately. You know... like adults.

The spins coming from the left seems more often than not, to be about petty things. Not to mention it is full of anger and vulger language. Often they revert to personal attack on people rather than discussing the issues.

That's all.

no joe, no bo, nj

It was an idiotic statement.

That said, we hit the debt ceiling on !on day- and nothing happened. Why? Because revenue is still coming in to the government, so interest payments are still being made.

Since you know so d@mn much why don't you tell us what Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner did on that day?

Clara - Why I'm flying off to Sacramento on Monday. So I may be a pig, but...

Casa Serrano is great, Javalina'sis over the Channel/London Bridge, both Mexican. The red Onion is great, but Montana's on the South side of town is my favorite.

Have fun and drink lots of water - it'll be hot.

You see DBO.... doesn't Bev just seem SO angry.... about EVERYTHING?

If she would just tone it down a little people might actually try listening to what she has to say.

Instead we all just tune her out... with her $#@%$^$$$% language.

Sad. :-(

SickOfTheBickering

You see DBO.... doesn't Bev just seem SO angry.... about EVERYTHING?

If she would just tone it down a little people might actually try listening to what she has to say.

Instead we all just tune her out... with her $#@%$^$$$% language.

Sad. :-(

We??? Certainly,"we" would not include you. Fool, you respond to me nearly every time I post.

In case any of you lefties having heard....here's what your President of the United States did TODAY....(not that you possible could have since they don't report that kind of thing here)

President Obama, delivering his first major address tackling the uprisings in the Middle East, on Thursday endorsed Palestinians' demand for their own state based on the borders that existed before the 1967 Middle East war.

No....he's not a traitor......no, he's just great. Maybe next he can recognize Sharia as a great form of government......He just put the nail in his own re-election coffin!

Spanky: you see the consequences of no confidence in local municipal bonds. Investors don't buy them because cities have gone broke and failed to pay their debt obligations.

The full faith and credit of the United States (look at a bond note) is not something that should be used as a method of defunding NPR and Planned Parenthhood.

If the issue of raising the debt ceiling is pushed too far, the US Treasury will NOT have sufficient funds available to pay the interest payments it is obligated to pay. The Congress won't have to worry about making cuts, everything will be cut, including the pay of the Congressmen.

Eventually, even failing to make regular payments will not be enough and interest payments will not be made. When that happens, the US will be in actual default. Will it be the "end of the world"? Probably not, but there will be some severe consequences. The US promise to pay has always been a bench mark, for the world. If the US promise is no longer any good, the world may decide to no longer purchase US debt unless very high interest rates are paid. A sudden increase in the effective rates on US treasuries would cause a sprialling increase in interest rates across the board which would destroy the fragile economy.

Idiots like Rush Limbaugh, the one Congressman and other Republicans had better get their heads out of the Tea Parties aX# before the TP poops all over the entire world and sends us into a financial crisis that makes the 1930's look like a little slump!!!

SickOfTheBickering

I guess you do ;-)

Nah... seriously... both sides spin... that's the nature of it.

But what gets me is that the spin coming from the right tends to be about bigger issues, stated calmly and articulately. You know... like adults.

Yes you right wing loons do so succinctly when you discuss women's uteri, schakling rape victims to hospital beds, going in people bedrooms, mainly LBGTs, defending serial adulterers and anything thing else that has nothing with domestic and foreign issues.

@True American-2366567:

Regarding your observation of Obama's comment about Palestine - Israel's made up of a bunch of @!$%#s, anyway, and this opinion is coming to you straight from an ethnic Jew. :D

When a Republican was in office John Boehner and Mitch McConnell voted without hesitation to pass raising the Debt ceiling even stating that they hope this passed unanimously.

Years the Republicans voted to raise the Debt Ceiling Bush signed into law

2002 350 Billion in tax cut to big business and 450 Billion increase

2003 450 Billion in tax cuts to Big Business and 900 Billion increase

2004 600 Billion in tax Cuts to Big business and 800 Billion Increase

2006 670 Billion in Tax cuts to Bug Business and 781 Billion Increase

2007 700 Billion tax cuts for Big Business and 850 Billion Increase

2008 450 Billion tax Cuts to Big Business and

Total 3.2 Trillion to Big Business $4 Trillion Debt Ceilng increases under Bush

Total 7.2 Trillion in the Red for the next president coming in 2009.

Republicans voted to raise the Debt Ceiling every time it was brought up while a republican was in office and I goggle there response then it was Boehner and McConnell who said “there should not be any politics come into play when it comes to a increase in our national debt we need to pass this to continue to operate”. Also Mike Pence of Indiana in 2002 said it as a necessity to raise the National debt. Bush a republican was in office then but now the same Mike Pence now says he will not vote to raise the Debt ceiling without cuts to programs in healthcare and Medicare and all of which no cuts for defense or ending the Wars. Now Republicans and Tea Party think it’s a Great idea to play politics while a Democrat is in office.

@ed3891

Israel's made up of a bunch of @!$%#s, anyway, and this opinion is coming to you straight from an ethnic Jew. :D

So Ed.....you're a fan of the Holocaust?

While I don't think the act of defaulting in itself would be a good thing, I will say this; If that (defaulting) is what it takes to finally get our politicians (that goes for both parties) to get serious about getting our financial house in order, then I'm all for it!!!

So Ed.....you're a fan of the Holocaust?

Don't be tho thilly, guy. Of course not - but I am a fan of the LOL-ocaust that results each time you post. ^_^

So Israel was attacked in 67 and defended itself and then went on the offensive took some land. Odd, you win a War you didn't start and now you have a President tell that country to give it back? Yup, that's sounds about right!

And ain't that just the rub dirp101 - there will be no more faith or credit extended. See that's the bitch, or consequence of amassing $14 Trillion, with no intent to stop or heaven forbid reduce.

See - that's what is hitting the municipalities - no one think they can pay the money back, so no one is willing to front them the cash.

So dirp101 just how dumb are the Chinese?

True American-2366567

President Obama, delivering his first major address tackling the uprisings in the Middle East, on Thursday endorsed Palestinians' demand for their own state based on the borders that existed before the 1967 Middle East war.

So the right of the States of Israel and Palestine to exist in peace and security in a two-state solution would offend you? The Palestinians do not have a Lobby on their side, they rely on fairness in the press to present their side of the ‘story’. Good on the President.

Although eager to accept the UN Partition Plan of 1947 which recommended that 56% of the land be set aside for a Jewish State, 42% for an Arab state and 2% for an internationalised Jerusalem and its surrounds, the world has not said a word about the land that was seized by Zionist terrorists before the State of Israel was proclaimed on 14 May 1948. Through a series of shocking massacres, the territory assigned to the Jews suddenly became 77% resulting in more than 750,000 Palestinians being forcibly expelled and dispossessed of their homes, personal property and their homeland. The Jewish State then came into being without waiting for the United Nations Commission – prescribed in the Partition resolution – to hand authority progressively over to the Jewish and Arab leaders for their respective states.

And after the 1948 war, Israel declared Jerusalem its capital in contravention of its internationally-recognised status of corpus separatum–a status that is still recognised. Effectively, the new state of Israel was not only created in violation of, it continued to violate, the very resolution which Israelis now look to as giving them sovereignty

Daily, Israel is taking a bit of land here and a bit of land there, to make all of Palestine “Israel’s Land”. The problem then will be, what to do with 5 million Palestinians with no land?

Alternatively, Israel can disengage from the West Bank to the 1967 borders or agree on a single, democratic state for all. Without a just solution, the struggle for Palestine’s land will continue.

Sonja Karkar

Sonja Karkar is the founder and president of Women for Palestine, a Melbourne-based human rights group that seeks to raise awareness about the plight of the Palestinians through various media. She is also co-founder of Australians for Palestine (AFP) which advocates for Palestine at all levels of Australian society.

http://newmatilda.com/contributor/20704

No....he's not a traitor......no, he's just great. Maybe next he can recognize Sharia as a great form of government......He just put the nail in his own re-election coffin!

Middle East peace talks have been held by every U.S. presidential administration for the past 20 years. President Bill Clinton was one of manyU.S. presidents who attempted to broker a peace deal between Israelis ; so quite dreaming hater. Clinton was re-elected.

Sharia law is the GOP/T-BAGGER HATERS wanting to punish innocent Americans who don't go along with their hateful and intrusive ideology.

Bev....got it.....you hate the jews....and love Sharia law.....

Thanks for clarifying your position

I didn't think it was possible but indeed, Bev. just jumped the shark.

Oh my. Funny think is the fine fellows who practice sharia law would not take a cotton to Bev.

btw Bev, did I say..............He just put the nail in his own re-election coffin!

My question would be, does Bev know where Israel is at?

"Odd, you win a War you didn't start and now you have a President tell that country to give it back? Yup, that's sounds about right!"

So, then, we own Japan AND Germany? Won 'em fair and square? Neat.

Beverly in Chicago..

I really don't care if this post gets collapsed by the community.

I could answer your post with historical fact and not the bull@!$%# you posted. I won't dignify it.

You are an anti- Semitic son a bitch who dares to post copied text from the American Nazi playbook. Sieg Heil.

You sicken me and I hope most of the posters here.

DBO,

Think about it, do we? We control their military. But what's amusing with your logic, you seem to relate it with something else that doesn't apply. Those were World Wars with multiple countries involved. Last I heard there wasn't a President from another country tell us to GIVE back what we took. Israel didn't ask to be attacked and it's not Americas place to tell them to give back the land they WON. Yes, I said won, every country has done it. When you win a War you gain something out of it. I'm sure you don't understand, that's why there's not to many liberals in the military.

True American-2366567

Bev....got it.....you hate the jews....and love Sharia law.....

Thanks for clarifying your position

Oh please, I forgive you for that inflammatory remark since you are a dumb T-bagger who can't read or comprehend anything.

Go back and re-read what I wrote. See if you can find hate or love Sharia law.

Bev. please apologize for what you did.

I know you didn't mean it. I know you don't even understand. Just know that it is important for you to step up, take responsibility and say you are sorry.

No joking around this time. This time you really, really screwed up.

I know you won't listen to me, but look at Ira - he's not at all like me. You need to listen to Ira.

I would also suggest that after you apologize.....you come out and admit that you and your gang here on FR are nothing more than plants for the "movement".....ADMIT IT, JUST LIKE JOANNA IN PA did over on the Lui story...you've got to check it out, it's.....well.....foot-in-mouth GREAT!!!

Ira- I think you know by now that I am no liberal. Hopefully, that will give my post more, rather than less, credence:

Bev honestly, truly, does NOT understand what she posted. She found something she sees as supportive of Obama, and simply cut and pasted it.

She has NO idea that these "pre-Palestinian" groups are nothing more than neo-Nazi organizations. Their names sound okay, and, again, their statements seem to support Obama.

Were this done by ANY other poster, I would join you in lambasting that person. I find bigotry, in all its forms, repugnant- and anti- semitism, so thinly veiled by the left, seems to be the new, "in" thing.

Bev, unfortunately, is more a victim than a bully.

Ira- I am sorry for the post above. I just saw Bev's defense of her post above on the "Liu" thread, and I admit, I was wrong about Bev.

She is an anti- Semite. Plain and simple.

And it's revolting.

True American: President Obama, delivering his first major address tackling the uprisings in the Middle East, on Thursday endorsed Palestinians' demand for their own state based on the borders that existed before the 1967 Middle East war.

Beverly: So the right of the States of Israel and Palestine to exist in peace and security in a two-state solution would offend you? The Palestinians do not have a Lobby on their side, they rely on fairness in the press to present their side of the ‘story’. Good on the President.

(snip)

Sonja Karkar is the founder and president of Women for Palestine, a Melbourne-based human rights group that seeks to raise awareness about the plight of the Palestinians through various media. She is also co-founder of Australians for Palestine (AFP) which advocates for Palestine at all levels of Australian society.

Is THIS the post that everyone is all in a snit about?

If you read the post carefully - which I see many of you have not - these are the words of Sonja Karkar, and Beverly correctly cited her work.

No where do I see where Beverly made these statements. It looks to me that Beverly was answering True American with a citation refuting his post. I posted the snippet above.

So all of you calling Beverly an anti-Semite - I am calling BS on ALL of you. Whatever happened to showing two sides to an argument? Whatever happened to 'respectfully disagreeing' with someone who has a differing opinion that yours?

Now we are resorting to name calling, and ALL of you know that this is an EMOTIONAL subject.

If you would have just read the post, you would have seen what was going on, but NO - all of you just jump on the bandwagon and start slinging accusations, and are WRONG to do so.

Well, I am not playing that game, and all of you resorting to this should be ashamed of yourselves. If you want to discuss the FACTS, then fine - lay ALL of the facts out there so we can make up our own minds. This sort of nonsense is counterproductive, childish and just plain silly.

Thank you Pietro!

As I mentioned on another thread - certain people NEED to grow some thicker skin or stay the 'F' off the vine!

If you sling it - you damn well better be prepared to get dirty!

If nothing else, these race baiters OWE Bev an apology!

Oh My God, I agree with Spanky. Hell really is freezing over.

Bev, Israel is not blameless in the conflict with the Arabs, however, you have to appreciate the violence that country has endured at the hands of the PLO, Hamas,and their neighbors. How can you side with people who send suicide bombers into supermarkets, or tear captured soldiers limb from limb? It isn't necessary to hate Israel to recognize the rights of displaced Arabs. Israel is our ally, not our enemy.

I do think you owe Ira an apology, I think you hit his jugular when you meant to tap him on the head. We can debate politics without demonizing whole groups, or countries, or religions. I know you believe that.

Gee, where were all these posters when there were REAL racist comments being made about our President on First Thoughts? Or is that okay because you agree with what was said about the President? Spare me your faux outrage. Bev is no racist, only the truly deluded believes that she is.

Amy: the only way for the Middle East to work out its differences is for well meaning people to talk about the problems. I am Irish, my kids spend a lot of time in Dublin and Belfast. Those problems weren't improved until people got tired of the violence from both sides.

Beverly in Chicago

But it is surprising when one GOP member says that defaulting on the debt and going through "a period of crisis" could actually be a good thing.

Only do you hear such nonsense from the right wing world.

========================

Hum, not so fast. I'm slightly left of center and I also don't have a problem with what he is saying, except for one BIG IF. And that is this: if it actually made our elected members of Congress live within our means that would be great. But as fractured/polarized as both the Congress and this country is I just don't see that happening.

The American economy and the world economy would survive a default by the US government. It would also force us to rethink things like our military posture around the world, entitlement programs, the role of the federal government in our every day life, and our basic relationship with what we expext from our government. Part of the reason we are in the mess we're in is the American people WANT the US government to provide goods and services the federal government really has no business being involved in.

New Day Dawning. All I know is, when the cry went up in the Egypt street that Laura Logan was Jewish they lost all traces of humanity and tried to rip her apart. That is the ugliness of demonizing any group. The article Bev quoted struck at the right of Israel to exist. I think we can debate the rights of Palestinians without threatening Israel.

Go back and read my post, Amy, you missed the point entirely.

Pietro, Columbus, Ohio

Hey...you miss this bit of revisionist anti semiitic history..

"the world has not said a word about the land that was seized by Zionist terrorists before the State of Israel was proclaimed on 14 May 1948. Through a series of shocking massacres, the territory assigned to the Jews suddenly became 77% resulting in more than 750,000 Palestinians being forcibly expelled and dispossessed of their homes, personal property and their homeland."

Need more..or perhaps you don't understand the words...

Spanky: you and I are in general agreement. With local munis, many do actually default. There are even methods provided by within state constitutions/state laws for how munis can default.

There is no method in the US Constitution for the US Government to default on its debt. It has never happened.

As the world's largest reserve currency, i.e. more central banks hold US Treasuries than any other type of debt instrument from any other countries, defaulting on that debt would destroy the world economy.

The debt is so large and the deficit grown so much, that the only realistic way to attack it is to have ALL areas of the federal budget open for adjustment, cuts to all programs and yes increases in revenues. Tax rates themselves don't necessarily need to be raised, if the ability to avoid paying taxes is greatly reduced, if not eliminated.

The same people who worry about inflation and the debt are now suggesting that the dollar losing its status as the reserve currency of the world through defaulting on our debts is a good thing.......? Are they aware that this won't save us any time, trouble, or in the end money?

Default will have little if nothing to do with the US dollar losing it's place as the world's reserve currency.

That is already underway. The IMF has already met to discuss using SDR's (Special Drawing Rights) instead of the US dollar as the worlds reserve currency and Russia & China no longer require US dollars as payment.....so, to all of you "Americans" who keep supporting this administration and it's policies....just remember....you will be not only complicit but responsible for this country's demise.....YOU WANT A ONE WORLD ORDER.....YOU JUST MIGHT GET IT.....BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT YOU WISH FOR....you people are so far behind the eight ball, you can't even see it anymore....pathetic

Would it not be the straw that breaks the Camel"s back?

It would be the impetus

When Republicans and Boner were asked what they though about the Obama Administration ordering the killing of Osama Bin Laden they repilied there he goes again taking action that hasnt been approved by the Republicans in Congress.

When further asked to explain there position Republicans stated that the president would drive down gas prices with this reckless action and normal Rich Folk at the Big oil Companies wont be able to donate more insanely huge unreported amounts into there elections Payoffs.

When the press asked about payoffs the Republicans explained as follows. You see the money we use to flood the TV air waves comes from Big Oil companies and others like Republican billionaires as the Koch Brothers who is the price of gas falls wont be able to give as much to them. If the Poor and Middle class dont pay the higher gas price we dont care if they can afford we lose the extra money aand revenue because there is a revenue issue if it isnt going into our back pockets and if it helps anyone other the the rich elite its a spending problem. .

When the press asked the Republicans and Tea Baggers/Extreme Bush baggers far right party to explain why they wanted to get Rich off the profits of Big Oil from the high gas prices they said the first honest thing they have ever said. " We are the GOP Gas and Oil Party" We only care about the elite rich because "Yes we can"....

I just love you libbies and your steady procession of evvviiilll conservative bogeymen. Cheney, became the Citizens United ruling, which morphed into the Kochs and Walker, then Ryan, and now "Big Oil."

I just can't wait until next week. So come on, give us a hint, who is it gonna be next?

My bet's on those evil Israelis.....won't get out of their own country which is somehow (in kahootz with Big Oil) causing our really high gas prices....ah, it's early, but they still have time to figure out the spin on this one

I think you are right TA. I love how the president feels it's his place to tell Israel about it's borders.

Yeah, this is going to end well. I wonder how Schumer and his gang feel about all this. Jew on democrat crime is going to be totally entertaining.

Hey Ira - I would just love to hear yur take on 1. Bev.'s comments/hatred of jews, 2. Obama's directives towards Israel, and 3. how this all plays out in New York with wealthy Jewish donors.

HA, and he can't control ours!! Maybe the PLO can dig a moat and Obama will pay for it?

"So come on, give us a hint, who is it gonna be next?"

Abortion? Planned Parenthood?? Gay guys getting it on in the privacy of their apartments???

Shoot- wish I knew, too. I mean, THOSE are the things we need to stay awake at night about!

Spot on about the borders 3wolves.

Oh and DBO - our bogeyman has always been the same - cutting spending. So if that includes the things you mentioned, great. Cut, cut, cut.

$1.5 Trillion is gonna take a lot of cutting.

The right-wingers (specifically the tea baggers) never cease to amaze on their set of double-standards. I could have sworn they claimed it was immoral to walk away from debt that you could reasonably pay, yet here they are, making statements that the USA should walk away from its debt. Once again, they prove they are the most two-faced party ever invented.

Lets try this session of Congress. Democrats won't do anything unless taxes are raised on the wealthy, which they should be. Democrats won't consider any cuts at all on any social program, never have never will. Althought I said taxes should be raised on the wealthy, you can't tax the rich until they are penniless, then who will pay for all the social programs?

How about some true shared sacrice? Implement a flat tax, with food and housing being exempt for everyone. Then ANYTHING else that ANYONE else buys is taxed at some reasonable amount. Do away with earned income credit, mortgage interest deductions, loopholes, and subsidies for corporations.

But along with doing away with subsidies for farmers and corporations, WELFARE must be reformed. Recipients must be drug tested, just of those of us with actual jobs are often. Its time for generational welfare to end. Clinton made a good attempt, but of course the people on generational welfare found a way to scam the system, just as they always do.

And there you have it, Billybob... In Bev's world... the dems hold no responsibility for ANY of the issues facing our nation.

It's ALL the republican's fault!

(hehehe laughable)

SOB - how in the world can you decipher what Bev. said?

Spanky...

It's easy! Simply think a logical, reasonable thought then throw it out the window and do the EXACT OPPOSITE!

It also helps if you stand on your head and spin around 8-P

Now, now, you two- no being 'glib', 'K?

It was a simple question. Bev. is your girl DBO. How's about you tell use what in the hell she was trying to say?

Come on, give it a shot.

Besides - it is perfectly fine for "us" to be glib. Just not you. :) Not my rules, these are the FR rules [or as interpreted by Feisty, the pseudo-moderator around these parts].

Spanky-

It was a simple question. Bev. is your girl DBO. How's about you tell use what in the hell she was trying to say?

How 'bout you tell US what you are trying to say with the word"use"?

Sorry DBO.

But you have to admit. Sometimes reading Bev's posts is... how shall I say it... Difficult.

I am not sure that she has fully grasped how to construct a coherent sentence.

But she is REALLY good with the anger thing :-)

Bev communicates quite effectively,...you two just feel the need to nitpick because you can't argue the merits of the substance of her positions. It truly is amusing.

We ALL chop some word salad on occassion; but no one does it better than Sarah Palin.

(I couldn't resist).

Perhaps effectively is not the right term Clara.

Entertainingly. Yeah, that's it.

As always Bev. you are simply the best. And all this good fun and amusement is free. Best. Deal. EVAH!

And sure Clara there is Palin, but is is in the entertainment business [and making a pretty good little bank], whereas Joe Biden is an actual politician.

And really Clara - you really ought to watch less Fox and more MSNBC. Have you seen the rating lately? MSNBC really, really needs your support. FOx on the other hand, appears to be doing well. And no wonder - from the comments this morning from all my libbie friends it appears they are literally glued to Fox.

So strange.

easy boys and girls, if you eliminate bevs stuttering and lack of comprehension it is quite plain to see how she thinks.

Since she addressed billybobs blame towards both parties by inferring that only one party was at fault...

Where do you get on with both that both parties thing?

See, our little sweetie bev thinks that it is only one party's fault as she disputes how it could be possible that both parties ever worked together. It does seem that she suffers from long term memory loss, though.

Now based on little bevs past posts railing against the right it was quite easy for "sick of the bickering" to logically arrive at his conclusion.

Hmmmm, speaking about bevs lack of comprehension, we see her questioning (post 3.7) spanky on his typo. Looks like bevs ability to figure out meanings based on sentence structure alone leaves much to be desired. At least clara says she thinks bev communicates quite effectively. It does look like clara wants to be bevs interpreter. Go for it clara, when bev posts, please translate for us!

Janet made a great comment in that it addresses both the democratic and republican positions. From what I've seen and heard thus far is some democratic willingness to discuss and even pass some entitlement reform. I haven't heard or seen any willingness on the republican side to deal with increased revenues. We had a balanced budget during the last part of the Clinton administration until the decider promoted two major tax cuts and got us into two unfunded wars.

While I don't agree with the Congressman, I get his point that our focus has not been on the debt and really still isn't. Default however is not the answer. Getting congress back to work versus on vacation every two weeks and dealing with the financial situation of the country versus social policy would also be a good starting point. August 2 is nine weeks away and congress is scheduled to be out of session gone for five of them.

I'm still waiting for some adults to get into the room and state the obvious - neither side can get everything they want, everyone is going to have to sacrifice - people through entitlement reductions, pay hike freezes, and some elimination of tax breaks (i.e. mortgage interest deductions above a certain level; and for corporations elimination of subsidies, tax breaks, and tax hikes. Paygo should be reinstituted and applied to all tax reductions as well as increased spending. COLAs need to be reduced, means test Social Security and Medicare, reduce the size of government and eliminate duplicative programs not only within a single agency but across agency boundaries.

Its going to take a long time to dig out of the whole this last generation has created - an over 700% increase in the debt since Ronald Reagan took office. We simply can not afford everything we are doing, but I certainly don't favor most of the draconian prescriptions of the republicans.

I want this country to be one that I'd want my children and children's children to live in - not the US of pre-1929 and in some cases the 1890's. Our generation needs to deal with what we have created and at least put the overall debt on a downward trajectory. The Congressman's viewpoint would do the opposite as any benefits derived from cuts would be quickly off-set by the dramatic rise in interest payments that would have to be made on the current debt.

"Democrats won't consider any cuts at all on any social program, never have never will"... Are you kidding me??? Social programs are the first things that are cut in every session. Funding for public health programs has been slashed, which is the most counter-productive move possible. Prevention of chronic disease, ensuring people have access to primary care rather than relying on more expensive ERs, are all the biggest bang for your buck you can get. Head Start funding, which has been proven to improve children's outcomes, is usually at the very head of the list to be cut. Another penny-wise, pound-foolish move. Paying for things on the front end is a lot cheaper than trying to fix something once it's out of control - like the kid who didn't go to Head Start and didn't finish high school so is a thug on the street now and we get to spend $100K a year to house him in prison while he sits on his backside.

You think there is a housing bust now - an industry which employees a huge segment of the population - take away the mortgage intererest deduction and NOBODY will buy houses, the value of houses will plummet even more, and we'll be in a worse recession than we were in 2008.

You right wingers like to spout the party line but you never think it through beyond the tip of your nose. Get a freakin' clue before you speak next time, Janet.

Reduce COLAs??? Do you know the last time SS paid a COLA? Not in at least 3 years, I think it's closer to 5. Yet, cost of living HAS gone up. Gas has gone up over 80%, healthcare beyond the co-pay for drugs has more than doubled in the last 5 years, groceries have gone up...just because the bizarre market-basket used to measure inflation hasn't gone up doesn't mean the real cost of living hasn't increased.

Yes, there needs to be compromise on both sides but you guys make these blanket statements and have no clue what you are talking about...it's so frustrating hearing people spout the party line, but think they are sounding so reasonable and insightful while doing so.

Good for you, Amy.

SOB reminds me of Madison, NY - they swoop in crap all over the place & disappear!

It's a good idea to keep the umbrella handy when those two are around! ;o)

"insult other posters without offering new information on an issue"

This type of post is better known as "pulling a Feisty Redhead or Beverly in Chicago"

I see you moonbat Bobby! ;o)

Thank You , Bob!

Looks like someone out there has her panties in a bunch.

It was nice of her to accuse me of things with absolutely no proof. But that's ok... whatever floats the boat!

Amy dear - I hear the phone ringing.

"Hello, this is Amy, how can I direct your call?"

Hey - kudos to your employer - at least they still use a live person. Lucky, right?

Oh and Amy dear, I care what everybody thinks around here. If you are only selectively paying attention you are missing some very entertaining stuff.

LOL.....whining like a little kid......

Bully?????? on a damn blog....lol...... watchout that keyboard is going to slap you.... said as only a Liberal can.....

We share the same sentiment.

Defaulting on the Debt Ceiling increase would send us into a Recession that would make the Great recession look like a picnic. Get your head outta your butt pass it and move on. Raise Taxes on the extreme rich top 10 percent to make up for the Last 10 years Giving them so many cuts it put us in the recession and made our National Debt balloon up. Bush Tax cuts have made this deficit possible end them and we will return to a surplus. If they dont end them then its more of the same and that's why republicans were replaced in 2008 and will be again in 2012.

So Amy - do you condone LYingRepublican's comments? Do you find them to be, oh I don't know, insulting?

Come on Amy, the police have to police everybody, not just those they don't like.

Amy? Show us some more of that selective outrage of yours. :)

I was hoping for some intellectual dialogue about our debt crisis.

I have read most every post from the top and I have come to the unavoidable conclusion that the left wingers are truly stupid. Reading their posts makes me want to go take a shower.

Disgusting liberal trash.

Hey, Edward...that was such an intellectually stimulating post.

Reading this post just put a knot in my stomach.

ed3891..

I've posted it twice and no one seems to care. Too busy on the dems/gopers suck thing. Hell, our default on debt could have the effect of sending the global economy into recession or worse. No biggie, right. Yes...I am this close to giving up.

Ira - silly running up that hill I see.

They don't get it, and don't care. They are acting in their own self interest.

But I disagree - their will be no default - they still get $2.2 Trillion per year. That covers the debt, right? Of course it does, so no default.

Will it cover al the expenses? Nope, so they would have to actually cut expenses.

Easy, peasy, fresh and easy. And I'm not even a high paid New York tax ESQ.

So in the future you should really stick with shorter posts and more name calling. It's the FR way. Besides, your head will explode otherwise.

Ira - I see that you have posted this twice.

The question we must ask is this - do the GOPers really haev something that they can negotiate with? They HAVE to know the ramifications of NOT raising the debt ceiling. Are we looking at another 'crisis' like the last one where they almost shut down the Government and the President had to step in?

If you are going to play this game of chicken, you have to know when to flinch. It is REALLY worth it to crash the world economy because the GOPers want toget their way with the President? Is it REALLY worth it to foist upon the American people economic hardship right BEFORE an election year?

Has the GOP REALLY thought out this strategy?

I'm at a loss for words, myself.

Architects of our own destruction, wouldn't you say?

Spanky..

Next topic on FR in a post I said exactly that. No one in the GOP hierarchy is crazy enough to risk a default. Much easier to let an unknown say it and let the lmedia pick it up and make it seem like it"s the GOP position.

First post of the day on First Thoughts, I came real close to the short nasty post with Navy but backed off a little. Bad day...taking your advice and letting steam off here.

ed3891 and Pietro, Columbus, Ohio..

Need to agree with both of you. In the next topic I posted something ageeing with you that there will be no default as no one in power in this country is that crazy. No one is going to risk it. Compared it to the government shutdown negotiations with a last minute compromise.

Pietro - you failed to notice the following in Iras' post #12

In theory, the limit is supposed to help Congress control spending. In reality, it doesn't.

Every time the debt limit needs to be raised, lawmakers and the president are forced to take stock of the country's fiscal direction, which isn't a bad thing necessarily.

It isn't a GOP thingy alone, they are simply making sure that the debt issue will not be ignored again. Regardless of past stupidity by both parties, isn't it time to say "enough is enough"?

American - I did see what Ira posted, and yes, I did consider what was written.

The question is this - WHY NOW? The economy is recovering from a catastrophic event and the recovery is really weak. I think this is NOT the time to be goofing around. When we have stronger revenues and stronger GDP growth, THEN we can look at these measures to reduce the deficit.

This is a case where you save the patient and then kill him with the bill. We need to make sure the economy us healthy(healthier) so that it can withstand the hit it will be taking.

Unfortunately, this whole situation seems cynically political to me, and this is the WRONG time to start playing games with people's money.

So let's say the US defaults, and we start to suffer the consequences of this action. That will possibly mean that the lawmakers will not get paid or will be paid at a reduced rate. Who are they going to 'blame' then?

Pietro - there will never be a "good time" or a ".best time", but there has to be a "start time". Especially when any plan will take years to impliment.

If a default occurs don't think for a minute that obama and company will not be held accountable as well for refusing to take the default seriously.

This is 100% true. No one seems to care, though...and I don't understand why they don't. The US government is not a household. If you don't pay your bills, you suffer - and your debtors a little bit. The US can NOT just decide not to pay its bills. I can't believe we are even having this discussion. Yes, we owe too much. But the government has extreme responsibilities and failing those responsibilities has extreme repercussions that Ira cited so well.

What's shakin Torpedo? You seem a little cranky today. Why so cranky Torpedo?

What's the matter chief - do you have a bunch of crap muni bonds, or do you somehow rely on them?

Great facts all, but what exactly does your comment have to do with say Los Angeles' current inability to raise funds via muni-bonds?

But hey - I got you man - democrats good, republicans bad. You do realize that municipalities do not offer war bonds, right.

Defaulting on the Debt Ceiling increase would send us into a Recession that would make the Great recession look like a picnic. Get your head outta your butt pass it and move on. Raise Taxes on the extreme rich top 10 percent to make up for the Last 10 years Giving them so many cuts it put us in the recession and made our National Debt balloon up. Bush Tax cuts have made this deficit possible end them and we will return to a surplus. If they dont end them then its more of the same and that's why republicans were replaced in 2008 and will be again in 2012.

Frank:

Reminds me of what they said about napalming villages in Viet Nam: "We had to destroy that village to save it."

If you want to follow their economic "logic," a crisis resulting in the end of the world as we know it would be useful in making better decisions.

Of course, we'd be a third world nation with food riots, but hey...that's how we can get back to where we belong, right?

Insanity. How can they even spew this stuff with a straight face?

FranKH: I guess we wouldn't have to worry about a 2012 election, with the constitution suspended, no need to have an election.

Although that is the extreme, you are correct, it could happen.

Reality, default on the debt would simply raise interest rates which would, as impossible as it sounds, eventually strengthen the dollar. So, over the long term, a default would help the dollar, but the world would have to go through a worse financial crises than the 1930's to get there.

I wouldn't put anything past the Teapublicans, including causing world wide CHAOS!

Insanity. How can they even spew this stuff with a straight face?

They can because they don't have fear. They don't view their stations in life as under any real threat; they believe their wealth and privilege will see them through a crisis.

Perhaps the Default promoters wold be interested in an experiment in exchange for a 6 month increase on the cap. I propose those who hold the most real estate investments and bonds be subjected to a 5 month period of default on their investments...then let's talk.

Journey - you would be correct in your assessment. However, I do not think that the President will allow this to fester too long. The President has his hands full with Israel right now, but I expect to see a 'deal' of some sort in the next week or so to get the debt limit extended, even if it is for a short time.

I have to admit - I am kinda interested in seeing what the President is going to do.

The last 'fight' to slash the budget has the President PUNKing the GOPers and the Tea Partyers. They thought they were getting $38 BILLION in cuts, and they gave up their hole cards thinking that they won.

When they looked up, they got ony $352 MILLION in cuts.

Yeah, they were pretty upset when they found out that the President got over on them. maybe this is why we are seeing this game of chicken with the debt ceiling.

Let's face it - Speaker Boehner is a LOUSY negotiator. He has his short curlies in a vice between the GOP establishment and the Tea Party, and he cannot figure out a way to consolidate the factions to go against the President and the weak-kneed Dems that will cave when you look at them?

I have no sympathy at all for Speaker Boehner, especially when he is laying down with the dogs who are bankrupting this country.

It looks like he got their fleas.

Lots of them.

Sure, and continue instead to hand money over to the ultra-rich or the corporations in the hopes that something will trickle down (hasn't happened so far; unlikely in the future). The jobs that are supposedly going to appear is the theoretical alternative to providing a safety net to those who are the worst off. Not going to happen - you're going to have a lot of hungry, pi$$ed-off unemployed people who are going to be gathering at the entrance to all those lovely gated communities and corporate office buildings. Yeah, that sounds like common sense all right....

Gold STANDARD ??????? Do you know how little Gold we have?