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Subscribe to RSSWhat we learned this week in the early ’12 presidential race… If the goal of yesterday’s health-care speech was to put the health issue behind him, then the address was an “un-Mitt-igated” failure… The strongest part of the speech: his defense of MA’s mandate; the weakest part: why the federal government shouldn’t do the same… Flip-flopping vs. sticking to your guns… Bush World wants Daniels in the race… Yet another sign Huckabee isn’t running… Ron Paul makes it official… Team Obama woos the Latino vote… An emboldened GOP on the debt ceiling… WV GOV primary is tomorrow… And mark your calendars: A discussion on covering the Middle East takes place on Tuesday, May 17.
*** What we learned this week: In what might have been one of the busiest weeks to date of the early 2012 presidential race, we learned several things. For starters, we discovered that despite President Obama getting a bump in the polls after Osama bin Laden’s death, current attitudes about the economy (and especially gas prices) have tempered the size of that bump. We found out that the White House wants to make immigration and Latino outreach a BIG ’12 topic, even though there aren’t the votes in Congress to pass any kind of immigration reform this Congress. We learned that health care isn’t going away as an issue for Romney, not by a long shot. We also saw that Newt Gingrich -- despite his absence over the past few weeks -- is now officially in the race. So, too, is Ron Paul, who made it official on ABC this morning. And if we weren't totally sure BushWorld was firmly for Mitch Daniels getting into the race, we do now.
*** An “un-Mitt-igated” failure? If the goal of yesterday’s speech was to put health care behind him, then Romney’s address yesterday was an un-Mitt-igated failure. The strongest part of his speech was his defense of the Massachusetts health law, especially its individual mandate. “I … recognize that a lot of pundits around the nation are saying that I should just stand up say this whole thing was a mistake,” he said. “But there's only one problem with that: It wouldn't be honest.” As Politico's Ben Smith observed, Romney's defense was similar to Hillary Clinton's on Iraq in 2007-08 -- don't apologize and move on. (Pawlenty, on the other hand, has taken the Edwards-like position when it comes to cap-and-trade -- apologize.) Of course, Hillary had the burden of trying to become the nation’s first female commander-in-chief. The weakest part of the speech was his insistence that a state-based mandate is different from a federal-based one. It’s STILL a mandate. Moreover, how is a mandate a good thing in one state, while a “power grab” if extended federally? Can the U.S. really drive down its health-care costs if one state insures everyone and another doesn't, forcing taxpayers and emergency rooms to pick up the tab in one state or more?
NBC's Domenico Montanaro looks at whether Mitt Romney can overcome his health-care problem, does Ron Paul have a chance, and what does Bush support mean for Mitch Daniels?
*** Flip-flopping vs. sticking to your guns: Yet here’s a question to ponder: Would it have been better for Romney to have apologized for his Massachusetts law (what the Wall Street Journal editorial page wanted him to do), or stick to his guns? After what we saw in ’08, another instance of flip-flopping was probably worse than sticking to his guns. However, it was pretty clear that the Wall Street Journal editorial got under his skin; the start of his PowerPoint presentation struck us as tentative and defensive. And then he fired off a letter to Paul Gigot and Co.. “I was not surprised to read yet another editorial in the Journal yesterday criticizing the health-care reforms we enacted in Massachusetts,” he wrote. “I was, however, not expecting the distortions of what we accomplished.”
*** Bush World wants Daniels in the race: The twin speeches that Mitch Daniels and his wife, Cheri, gave at last night’s Indiana GOP dinner were hardly political, NBC’s Lauren Selsky notes. But what WAS political was the news, via CBS, that former First Lady Laura Bush “called Cheri Daniels personally to encourage her to support the effort [of a Daniels presidential bid] and offer advice on how to define what her role on the campaign--and potentially in the White House--would be.” CBS also reported that Gov. Daniels “has been assured backing from big-money donors who supported George W. Bush, in addition to former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, as well as top sitting Republican governors.” We can report that for months, Bushies have quietly been urging him to run, in fact, other candidates who have jumped in have been told this when making their own obligatory treks to Texas. It’s clear that Bush World is ramping up the pressure on Daniels to get in. If he does decide to get into the race, he’s going to have to demonstrate that he wants to do this. If he doesn’t get in, he’s going to leave a very big vacuum. As Politico’s Martin writes, “It’s becoming a recurring pattern: the more supporters of Mitch Daniels attempt to pump him up, the less he appears to want to run for president.”
*** Yet another sign Huckabee isn’t running: Is this what a serious presidential candidate does? The New York Daily News reports that Mike Huckabee has launched a new education company that sells animated history videos for kids. The first video: “n the teaser, a group of kids take a time travel machine to the recession-troubled 1970s, where they're confronted by a knife-wielding thug wearing a ‘disco’ shirt. They then learn how Ronald Reagan ‘swiftly changed the course of the nation.’ In another clip, a woman at a campaign rally exclaims the Reagan ‘believes we can do anything! We just need to get the government out of the way.’” Explain to us how this isn’t propaganda…
*** Paul makes it official: Ron Paul made his presidential campaign official. “I am officially announcing that I am a candidate for president in the Republican primary,” he told ABC this morning. Why run again after two other failed bids? Paul answered that more and more people are agreeing with what he has to say. Why did he say he would have conducted the raid against Osama bin Laden differently? He said that it was “antagonistic” toward Pakistan. On why, as a libertarian, he doesn’t believe in FEMA: “I don’t think someone in New York or New Hampshire has to pay for my flood on the Gulf Coast.” Paul holds a rally at 10:00 am ET today in Exeter, NH. He also appears on MSNBC’s “Hardball” at 5:00 pm ET.
*** Elsewhere on the 2012 trail: Cain is in Austin, TX… Gingrich delivers two speeches (one in DC to the annual Washington Conference and another in Macon, GA to the Georgia GOP convention)… And Pawlenty is in Iowa.
*** Wooing the Latino vote: On the Democratic side, want proof of the message discipline that David Plouffe has brought to the White House? Just look at how committed they are on reaching out to the Latino community. This week alone, President Obama delivered a speech on immigration reform, he attended the Hispanic Prayer Breakfast, and he sat down for an interview with Telemundo. And this follows previous meetings the White House has had with stakeholders in the immigration-reform debate and the Congressional Hispanic Caucus. But if it were about one week, it wouldn't be THAT impressive on the discipline front. Instead, look at the president's schedule over the last mont -- a slew of meetings with key Latinos, trying to reassure them that the president has NOT backed off on key promises.
*** An emboldened GOP on the debt ceiling: Regarding the debate over the debt ceiling, it shouldn’t be surprising that Republicans feel emboldened and have ramped up their rhetoric and demands. The reason: There is no hurry -- right now. However, if we’re still hearing this in July, then there’s a problem.
*** WV GOV primary is tomorrow: By the way, tomorrow is the special gubernatorial primary in West Virginia. The general election is on Oct. 4.
*** Mark your calendars: This Tuesday in DC, NBC’s David Gregory will moderate a discussion -- featuring NBC’s Andrea Mitchell and Ron Allen, the New York Times’ Helene Cooper, NPR’s Andy Carvin, and the U.S. State Department’s Alec Ross -- on covering the Middle East.
Countdown to NY-26 special election: 11 days
Countdown to Iowa GOP straw poll: 92 days
Countdown to NV-2 special election: 123 days
Countdown to Election Day 2011: 179 days
Countdown to the Iowa caucuses: 269 days
* Note: When the IA caucuses take place depends on whether other states move up
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So Ex-Senator Coburn was MAN enough to 'shtoop' his friend's wife but, couldn't negotiate his own blackmail settlement?
It's now apparent these two clowns couldn't PRAY their way out of a paper bag!
Anyone else think they should modify the name from 'C' Street to 'SLEAZE' Street!
As to what 'we' learned this week, I learned that the current crop of candidates don't have a snowballs chance in hell of beating President Obama!
The rest of the Teapublicans and their tricks are setting up a return of Madame Speaker Pelosi in 2012!
McCain says torture didn't lead to UBL's capture...wow.... .Ol' man Mac has found sanity again.
He's not running for re-election, thus has stopped drinking the Tea Bags.
A representative said yesterday that President Obama and congress would be more successful in the coming year because very few congressmen are running for elections, so cooler heads will prevail - to get the economy moving. I was astonished, but not surprised at this revelation.
Apologize Conoco Phillips You’re Saying We Are Un- America
American Society is drowning in Lies from the Robber Barons. What’s so sad is they [Robber Barons] think average Americans don’t even care anymore: Things are different now. Shared sacrifice and reducing the budget also is a responsibility of the exploitative
Robber barons in the oil business have the nerve to call US, hard working middle and poor working classes, retired seniors, and our President such a derogatory name as "un-American". Yes, it's true these greedy, unpatriotic corporations courageously purport to call anyone "un-American" in brazen faces with their insatiable appetite for money, tax subsides. You are destroying with your insatiable greed.
Sen. Max Baucus told the heads of America's biggest oil companies Thursday that they should stop getting billions of dollars in tax breaks because the country's better off using the money to reduce the national debt than padding the profits of Fortune 500 companies.
Chuck Schumer put James Mulva, the CEO of ConocoPhillips, in a tough spot when he asked the CEO if he thought pell grants were more important than oil subsidies. Mulva,
Then Schumer replied, "Do you think people who advocate cutting student aid -- are they un-American too? Do you think anyone who advocates cutting these types of subsidies are un-American, yes or no?
Senator Menendez asked--“Do you make those accusations lightly? Or did you really mean to question my patriotism? ... Do you believe President Obama is un-American because he has proposed cutting oil subsidies?”
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/018ac8aa-7cb1-11e0-994d-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1MF1OZh00
Senate Democrats Charles Schumer of New York and Robert Menendez of New Jersey pressed ConocoPhillips CEO James Mulva to apologize for calling their tax change proposal "un-American."
I echo Rachel Maddow
a) when will oil profits =jobs
b) when will oil profits lead to lower gas prices
c) why did oil industry reverse it self from ‘05
d) why incentivize at al
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#43016391
Hey , Say Hello To Rambama
http://obamadiary.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/rambama.jpg?w=485&h=362
http://obamadiary.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/beach-blanket-obama-web.jpg?w=144&h=292
Hero Builders released the Obama SEAL Team 6 action figure.
Personally, I’d prefer a puny President Obama action. After all, we got to keep it real!!!
http://whatthe@!$%#hasobamadonesofar.com/
Ended Bush administration's CIA program of 'enhanced interrogation methods' by requiring that the Army field manual be used as the guide for terrorism interrogations
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/22/guantanamo.order/index.html
Here is another hero
http://bostonbravery.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/rachel-maddow.jpg
Ha-Ha Glenn Beck Says he feels Safer in Israel
Get to stepping Move on out Glenn. Many Americans would feel safer with you in Israel not being able to spew you cockamamie doomful feral and un-American terror predictions too
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201105120034
http://www.thenation.com/blog/160588/eleven-craziest-things-newt-gingrich-has-ever-said?rel=emailNation
Here is the total article from The Nation on the Newt and the craziest things this clown has said. And this is what the GOP/TP has to offer??
I thought this may make some of you smile at how absurd this guy is. Enjoy.
As reported by the Associated Press yesterday afternoon by Donna Cassata: McCain: "Here Are The Facts. Torture Did NOT Lead To Bin Laden"
** No proof that torture led to any actionable intelligence wipes out any claim that President Bush supporters may have that he deserves even partial claim for taking out Bin Laden. It was the re-organization of the CIA under the eye of President Obama, the Intelligence Community that got the goods on the location of the courier and the skill and courage of Navy Seal Team #6 and had very little if anything to do with Bush
http://thinkprogress.org/2011/05/03/bush-did-not-catch-bin-laden/ http://thinkprogress.org/bin-laden-timeline
These two articles above are must reading if you really want the whole story on how President Bush was an absolute failure in Afghan and washed his hands of OBL very early in the war and changed his priority to Iraq. The current GOP/TP rhetoric on how President Bush should get credit for taking out Bin Laden is a “Red Herring” for a back door attempt to try and legalize torture thereby providing cover to Bush and Cheney from possible legal actions for “war crimes”.
Mitt Romney plans to be this years version 04' John Kerry - Flip flopper... at least he's out there defending the Affordable Care Act (against his wishes, lol), so I applaud him for that.
Conservative leaders work SO HARD to convince us of their honesty and integrity, yet every day it becomes more obvious just how sleazy they really are. Their slavish devotion to the wealthy elite puts our entire society at risk and those Conservative elites feel entitled to step on the rest of us.
Today is Mayor Richard M. Daley's last day as Mayor of the City of Chicago!
I want to wish him all the best, as he retires from public service!
He has served our fine city well over the decades, despite the jokes about Chicago-style politics!
Thank you Mayor Daley!
Let's all keep his wife Maggie in our prayers as, she continues to bravely battle cancer!
Today is the day to pass the baton to 'Rhambo', who I hope will continue to make our city of one the greatest in our nation!
The report on Ensign is damning for him and for the other "C" Street folks like Coburn who helped negotiate bribery. Coburn at the least should be reprimanded along with any of the others who aided Ensign in this cover-up.
Navy: thanks for posting the crazy things that Newtie says. He apparently has not noticed that the Founders INTENDED this country to be secular. That makes him dangerous to this country, and he should not be considered for the office of President. (Not that he has any reasonable chance.) When will the "teabaggers" notice that every reference Newtoid makes is from World War II? He is stuck in time, cannot understand that the world has moved on to new problems, and would be incapable of the kind of thinking that would bring America forward. The thing that amuses me most? Newtie likes to string together multi-syllable words, which leaves the "teabaggers", mouths agape, stammering at his "brilliance". They never notice that what he says makes no sense whatsoever.
What I learned this week is- Newt Gingrichi s a funny guy. Thinks he could be president some day.
Ok My day is complete! The elders have spoken and worshiped the idol! And even tossed in a pro bono smooze at Mr Daley!
Great posts Beverly and Feisty.
Always look forward to your posts.
Thanks Tom!
Hope you have a fabulous weekend! ;o)
.
...and today Coburn is going to speak in defense of DOMA, the Defense of Marriage Act. Hypocrite shout be indicted for obstruction of justice at the very least.
Ira:
They may be looking into what role he had to play in this. Time will tell, these guys are pretty much on top of ethic's violations and as I have said before, if you (the politicians) are guilty of violating the rules or worse you deserve to be punished. This has nothing to do if they are democrats or republicans. Break the rules then you pay the price.
US Navy - Dumber than a Birther?
Believe the words of, as Feisty puts it ....."an old telling at the pigeons"? McCain?
The left has mocked and ridiculed the intelligence of those who denied Obama's place of birth - "Birthers". Could there be other "deniers" who are even dumber than the "Birthers" ..... the "Boarders" who deny the efficacy of enhanced interrogations - waterboarding?
Bush, Rummy, Cheney, former Directors of the CIA, etc. have long said that the waterboarding and enhanced interrogations led to more actionable intelligence than all other means and methods combined. (The lack of a successful terrorist attack in the years since 9/11 certainly supports that statement.)
Nevertheless those with a poverty of common sense, the blind Bush bashers, have always denied it ....... have said such things as "waterboarding will make them say anything." Duh ..... and doesn't "anything" include the truth? Anyway ...
Nothing matters though, Obama said it was bad, the disciples will simply close their eyes and dive into the thinkprogress dumpster trying to find what to cut-in-paste next.
But what does thinkprogress "think"about Obama's CIA Director Leon Panetta ....... any "progress" on a rebuttal for this ......
(From a Deroy Murdock NRO piece:)
NBC Nightly News anchor Brian Williams on May 3 asked CIA Director Leon Panetta,
"Are you denying that waterboarding was, in part, among the tactics used to extract the intelligence that led to this successful mission?"
"No," Panetta replied. Intelligence officers "used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of these detainees."
Williams asked if that "handy euphemism . . . includes waterboarding."
Panetta replied, "That's correct."
There is a YouTube of it for the full exchange, but if you are an Obama drone you won't like it and will need to immediately go to the thinkprogress dumpster for re-programming.
I know that is still not good enough ..... In an interview with Murdock, House Homeland Security Committee chairman Peter King ......
Want more? Want the other attacks/plots broken up? Bush didn't run out there everytime with the ..."look what I did" propaganda leaks, but let me know, it is all out there now.
So Obama used all of Bush's protocols, protocols that only a fool would not acknowledge worked and led directly and in-directly to the demise of OBL; usedthe JSOC which Bush strengthened 3 fold .... and you still cannot give any credit to Bush. Oh well.
You harp on the Tore Bora Tora Caca, which I refuted in detail - names, dates, units, places, everything. You put up a blogger in an effort to obfuscate the resources issue and change the time/mission issue. I refuted the resources issue, I identified his "unknown" units for him, explained the mission change and timing ....... this from your blogger boy that didn't know if there was a difference between Task Force 5 and the 5th Group - an idiot on the matters. Oh well..... Birthers / Boarders ....
Bottom-line -Waterboarding worked, Obama wouldn't have his greatest achievement of his presidency without it.
After hearing it from the horse's mouth, most of the "Birthers" at least had the sense to know when to give it up.
The "Boarders" don't appear to be near that bright ......... Welcome aboard US Navy!
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL
Today is Mayor Richard M. Daley's last day as Mayor of the City of Chicago!
I want to wish him all the best, as he retires from public service!
He has served our fine city well over the decades, despite the jokes about Chicago-style politics!
Thank you Mayor Daley!
Let's all keep his wife Maggie in our prayers as, she continues to bravely battle cancer!
Today is the day to pass the baton to 'Rhambo', who I hope will continue to make our city of one the greatest in our nation!
HI GF
I think 'Rhambo' will. Monday Da mayor was taking pictures with Chicagoans as a farewell tribute. My brother went and got his. I didn't know about it; otherwise I would have gone.
I hope you are having as much fun as I am laughing at these republi/clown "carnival barbers".
Newt is going to save national debt so his 3 wives can inherit it. Ha-Ha
Mitt Romney flip flop inside of his speech. Ha-Ha
BTW: did you see the latest investigation over at @ The Father Coughlin/ Joe McCarthy hearings on FOX NOISE?
Singer Jill Scott Is The Next White House Guest Being Targeted As Racist By The Right
http://www.mediaite.com/online/singer-jill-scott-is-the-next-white-house-guest-being-targeted-as-racist-by-the-right/
This Week In Hypocrisy: Fox Hits Rapper Over Violent Rhetoric, Then Hosts Ted "Suck On My Machine Gun" Nugent
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201105120028
Burn a bush
The exact meaning of the Burning Bush as a method or medium of revelation may appear as follows:
(1) The flame in this bush was not the flame of persecution by God's enemies without, but the flame of God's presence or the presence of His angel within.
(2) The idea of burning and yet not being consumed is brought into the narrative by Moses' wonderment in the moment of his ignorance, before he knew that God was in the bush.
(3) The real significance of the flame in this case seems to be light and glory and preservation where God manifests Himself graciously. This is the universal idea of revealed religion.
http://www.searchgodsword.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?number=T1763
Ya'll scared? FOX NOISE is as usual.
TGIF See you at the Dew Drop Inn
I see that Bob (numbers) is STILL at it trying to 'prove' that President Bush provided the intel to get Osama Bin Laden.
We have already refuted your post(s), Bob. Time to move on. President Bush IS NOT going to get ANY credit for getting Osama Bin Laden - President Obama is. President Obama will get the credit for getting more intel in 40 minutes than we got in 7 years of interrogation at Gitmo.
What this shows is that President Bush was pretty inept in his handling of Al Qaeda and how he squandered $1 TRILLION in American treasure and over 4000 lives for a friggin' pistol.
It also shows that the barbaric 'interrogation' methods used did NOT garner the intelligence as expected. Even Sen. McCain concurs.
And yet we are here, being subjected to ANOTHER diatribe about how 'President Bush was right'.
Yo know what, Bob (numbers)? Shaking your fist and yelling at the clouds do NOT make them go away, no matter how long you do it and how red you get in the face.
It is time for us to move on. This is a dead issue.
I'll get off your lawn now.
Bev- RE; "burn a bush'"
Talk about grasping at a bunch of straws this week- what’s the deal with Fox and that idiot Hannity’s obsession with the rapper guy? See, unlike his predecessor, President Obama CAN do several things at once. BUT- even so, do these fools really think it is President Obama that sat down at a desk, and made out the invite list for the poets and performers to attend some social event? Really? Jesus, people- get a life already!
Teleprompter. Bill Ayres. Rev. Wright. ACORN. Any damned thing but something with some actual relevance to the overall scale of problems and issues that face the country.
Pietro,
What part of the Panetta interview, (Obama's CIA Director that led the whole deal), did you not understand?
Dumber than a Birther? ........... and Pietro raises his hand.
Thanks for the chuckle .... (we knew it anyway)
Ron Indiana
Next we have the preacher turned politician, Mike Huckabee. I can't say whether Mike will run or not. But I have noticed that the money he has received from Fox News has a way of making Mike put both feet in the material world. Preacher turned political pundit: that may be pretty accurate.
So, who's left? Don't rule out The Donald and Sarah Palin. They have about as good a chance as any of the above.
Ron
They'll all clowns and "carnival barkers"; it wouldn't surprise me which one of them peddles the White House.
barker
a person who stands at a show, fair booth, etc., and loudly addresses passers-by to attract customers
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/barker
Huckleberry is not a preacher in my book.
If Common is a thug , then how does Huckleberry defend having a loony gun advocate on his show when the loon issues an outright, graphic call for a sitting senator to mouth an automatic weapon? That'd be Ted Nugget.
Bob (numbers) - what part of REFUTED and DEBUNKED to YOU not understand?
I mean really. They waterboarded KSM 183 times - 183 - and they still got no better intel than what we got in the raid of OBL's lair.
You would think that after 1-2 times, if this technique was effective, they would have gotten SOMETHING.
But no - they had to do it 182 more times and still got NOTHING of use.
I understand that you have NOTHING to refute me, so now you resort to calling me names and crying in your beer.
So be it.
Need a tissue, Bob?
Mitt Romney thinks that his Romneycare is better than Obama's health care plan because it only has to do with helping the people of his state of Mass. Well isn't that being a bit selfish to think that he and only he can make something like this work, and is it not what's good for the goos also good for the gander. Why can't Romney understand that just because Obama is not a Mormon,does not mean that he can't be just as inspired to help the American people. Come on Romney as a Mormon do you not believe in the law of consecration where everyone is considered as equals and that we all deserve to enjoy the same benefit equaly. Maybe Romney's religious value comes in second to the big financial gain from the top 2% just as the rest of the GOP do.
I am certainly no fan of waterboarding or any torture. I am certainly no fan of John McCain either.
Yet, of all the people who have spoken on the issue of waterboarding resulting in intelligence leads, only John McCain has personal experience with torture. And being tortured. And what can or cannot be gained. Not Cheney, not Panetta, not Bush, not Rumsfeld, not Mukasey. Not even Bob-numbers.
Only McCain can speak to this issue. And he HAS spoken.
Bob...Gotta say it man...you are ate up with it...just more blow hard justification for not giving credit where credit is due...President Obama has been a class act about the whole Osama Bin Ladin thing. He has never failed to give credit where credit is due and I don't really seem him doing the "me, me, me" thing that those who are trying to discredit him try to say. I think mostly your ilk (Republicans and their lap dogs Teapublicans) just try to take away anything that President Obama Accomplishes, by demonizing it, or denying it..or just saying "No" to anything and everything...all political ploys regardless of what is good or bad for the American people...get over it...
Pietro,
I realize this is over your head, but put simply I said that Obama's CIA Director (btw-along with previous CIA directors) along with the House Homeland Security Chairman explicitily refute Navy's assertion.
You need to refute them.
Of course you can't ..... you try to play the game, but don't even understand what checkmate is ..... last time you had to have another liberal post the equvilent of - give it up dude, that's checkmate.
yea bev and feisty take away the tax breaks and we will all pay for it at the pump, no question. We are going to have to suck it up and make painful decisions and big time cuts. Is the path we are on sustainable?
The only folks I hear spewing that stuff that Bush should get "the credit" for getting bin Laden are the loons on the left who toss that bone out there. As best as I can tell, reasonable folks on both sides acknowledge there was a "mosaic" of intelligence that was painstakingly pieced together and followed over a period of many years that ultimately led to getting bin Laden. And folks like Rumsfeld, Cheney etc are just making the point that some of that "mosaic" was developed during the Bush years, and some of what was developed came from harsh interrogation techniques. Period. I don't know of any responsible figure on the right who is standing up and shouting "Bush got him." To the contrary, the right has applauded Obama for getting the guy. The only shouting is coming from the left as they make this stuff up.
Bob -- keep up the good fight. And kudos on the "thinkprogress dumpster" phrase -- it's colorful, concise and devastingly accurate.
Actually, Bob (numbers), I don't.
Since you brought it up for the umpteenth time, and US Navy Disabled and I have refuted what YOU'VE posted umpteen times, I see no value sitting here trying to debate someone who is hell bent on trying to give President Bush credit for getting OBL when they truly have NOTHING but a wing and a prayer.
And with your track record, Bob, of being hung by his own petard more times than not when debating issues, I would SERIOUSLY suggest you brush up on your subject(s) before trying to debate them.
A little 'friendly' advice, and you know that I can back up what I am saying with examples.
Have fun yelling at those clouds, Bob.
pietro - I don't need a tissue but would like to see the government link supporting the 183 waterboard attempts on whomever KSM is.
I do agree with McCain though on the effectiveness of painfull torture. One just won't know if the info was based on the person willing to say anything to get the torture to stop or the info had value because of the torture. Regardless, the info needs to be checked out.
With regard to your post 1.19 two things. On May 1, 2011 in a televised press report given by president obama himself he gave credit not only to the military planners of the mission and to the CIA but to the bush administration as well. If you want us to believe that obama lied to us, so be it.
The second is that neither one of us has the ability to analyze spotty intel on coming to an exact conclusion or to connect the dots to do the same. Based on recent government reports since may 1, maybe osama was there, maybe he wasn't. Obama rolled the dice and fortunately for us it worked out well.
To think that intellegence data gathered before obamas term didn't play a part is ludicris. It is like saying that intel gathering is reset to zero after every new president is elected or a new CIA director is named. For myself, I will stick to obamas may 1 press release as I remember it. That obama gave credit to the CIA, the military, the previous administration and his own mission authorization.
Well, Bill, I see you want to jump into this fray as well. OK, fine.
If what you have posted is true, why not just say 'WE got OBL' and let it go at that? Is it so hard to just say 'Thank you, President Obama, for keeping us safe?' and NOT have to bring up what President Bush did?
What are you trying to prove?
You accuse the left of bringing it up, but it seems to me that Bob (numbers) is the ONLY one who brought this up - AGAIN - today. So are you saying that Bob (numbers) is a 'leftie'?
I am sure that Bob would get a kick out of that.
It smacks of desperation when something positive happens and the Bushie minions just HAVE to 'prove' that President Bush was NOT an abject failure.
We know the drill. We have MANY examples of President Bush's ineptitude. We have more Bushisms that we can stand. We have seen the devistation to the economy, the Treasury, worlwide opinion and trade to know that President Bush was incompetent.
So, let it go. US Navy Disabled and I have debunked all of Bob's claims already (more than once).
It is time to move on.
Tim,
Eaten up with it? Nah ... it's fun refuting you guys.
More importantly, the enhanced techniques need to be used for national security reasons. Three thousand dead Americans and the threat to America is real - not a feel good social issue.
Obama got the information, heard the plan and approved it. Good job. (Would you expect anything less of any president?) Obama gave credit to the CIA for the continuous efforts since 9/11 on 60 minutes. Gave credit to the SEALs.
me, me, me .....? More like "I', "I".......
"I can report ... I directed ..... I met repeatedly with my ..... I determined .... at my direction .... I've repeatedly made clear .....
And that was in what 1 or 2 paragraphs? No biggie. The big victory tour, 60 minutes, photos of the group, met the SEALs, trip to New York .......No biggie.
A narsissist is a narsissisit, especially one up for re-election. No biggie.
bob-1805084
Pietro,
What part of the Panetta interview, (Obama's CIA Director that led the whole deal), did you not understand?
Dumber than a Birther? ........... and Pietro raises his hand.
Thanks for the chuckle .... (we knew it anyway)
Is it funny that Mc Cain also said ... Don't Use Torture To Get Info?
I think the dumpster may be the Fox Channel you get your garbage from.
Inflation is a surprise? This Administration is to far left and the Republicans can not come up with a moderate plan of their own. Hell they can not even find a viable candidate for he next election.
With the Republicans working towards sending the working class people back to the earlier days of the industrial revolution. Where you worked long hours for short pay and no benny's. Their answer is: become a business owner and make it on your own. What they have not figured out yet is that some people do not have what it takes to run a business or have no interest in owning their own business. What we need are good paying jobs with decent benefits. They seem to believe that large corporations will forfeit their large profits and give to their employees or expand with good paying jobs. Trickle down does not work. Bush tax cuts have been around for over 10 years . I think everyone can see what that has solved "nothing" just added to debt and look where we are at now.There is to much greed for the free market to work without effective employee representation. This election is going to limit our choices greatly unless someone can step up with some brains.
OK, American, you can google it yourself using this: khalid sheikh mohammed waterboarded 183 times. There are hundreds of citations that you can pick for your reading pleasure.
The issue is that Bob (numbers) has come on here stating that 'waterboarding works, and that is what gave the CIA pertinent information that led to the demise of OBL and President Bush should get the credit for it (I am paraphrasing)'.
The argument against this is that President Bush wasn't interested in getting OBL, so why should he get ANY credit, especially since he shut down the operation to get OBL in 2005?
This is the argument we have been having.
Yes, President Obama DID give credit to everyone involved, including the Bush Administration. I would have had NO problem with that if people like Bob (numbers) would have been content with that acknowledgement. What is at issue is that people like Bob (numbers) wanted more - and I was not willing to acknowledge that, in light of what President Bush said about OBL (am paraphrasing again, but he was 'not interested' in getting OBL).
What I have an issue with Bob(numbers) is his CONSTANT posting on getting more out of who got OBL, and using waterboarding as that vehicle. He has posted AGAIN today - unsolicited - about this VERY subject.
I know I am spending waaay too much time dealing with this, so I am going to MOVE ON. American, there are your citations for the waterboarding of KSM 183 times.
Pietro (some city some state),
You accuse the left of bringing it up, but it seems to me that Bob (numbers) is the ONLY one who brought this up - AGAIN - today. So are you saying that Bob (numbers) is a 'leftie'?
Might want to check #1.4.
Sheez ....... do you EVER get ANYTHING right?
drive-by-observer
Bev- RE; "burn a bush'"
BUT- even so, do these fools really think it is President Obama that sat down at a desk, and made out the invite list for the poets and performers to attend some social event? Really? Jesus, people- get a life already!
\
Probably, as most rational people know the numbskulls at FOX NOISE haven't the ability to think.
Teleprompter. Bill Ayres. Rev. Wright. ACORN. Any damned thing but something with some actual relevance to the overall scale of problems and issues that face the country.</p>
Ohh it gets dumber
Sarah Palin Accuses Obama of Palling Around With Cop Killers
http://www.politicususa.com/en/sarah-palin-obama-cop-killer
Here is a Lady who is sleeping with the enemy, her husband who wanted to commit treason.
Todd Palin registered in October 1995 to the Alaska Independence Party, a radical group that advocates for Alaskan secession from the United States.
Besides a short period of a few months in 2000 when he changed his registration to undeclared, Todd Palin remained a registered member of AIP until July 2002 when he registered again as an undeclared voter
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/todd_palin_was_registered_memb.php
Pietro (some city some state),
Here's what I actually said.
I didn't say Bush deserved all the credit. My feelings about Obama - Check out my comment to Tim in #1.34.
I don't care about the credit issue. Both Presidents are supposed to do their job. They did and the fruit of both their efforts was OBL being dumped in the North Arabian Sea.
What bothers is the discredit of Bush's efforts for purely partisan reasons.
National security should transcend that crap.
Bush waterboarded 3 guys, one (KSM) that planned and executed 9/11. Obama is executed without a word said. KSM has no injuries, is sleeping in clean sheets with 3 squares a day.
Yet to you lefties, KSM was horribly abused and you herald shooting OBLin the eye and duming the corpse for fish food? You guys make no sense.
What is worse, you compromise national security by denying protocols that work - all for irrational sensitivites and political agendas.
@Bob (numbers), Torture is IMMORAL, ILLEGAL, AND INHUMANE...PERIOD and reflects poorly on those countries who use it. Bush and Cheney cannot even leave the united states without worry of arrest for crimes against humanity. Speaking of humanity, Bob, got any?
Give Bush ALL the credit for his torture program and indict him for it.
Like I said, Bob (numbers), it is time to move on.
I think that I have made my point and I see you are intent on continuing this diatribe justifying waterboarding, even though what you have been posting has been refuted a number of times.
Enjoy shaking your fist at the clouds, Bob.
pietro - bush not interested in finding bin laden?
Seems that according to the NYT's only the scope was broadened in seeking out al qaeda and the search for bin laden carried on..
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/04/washington/04intel.html
Would you have us believe that bush didn't have regular intelligence updates on bin laden and al qaeda while obama did? If so, then America is in deep shlt.you need to review what the functions of the executive branch and intelligence services are.
BTW - nowhere within the article was it said that bush ordered the search to stop. More likely, as in any organization, focus was changed based on ongoing intel. You know, as illusrated in the NYT's article.
The 2011 Medicare and Social Security Trustees report just came out and it shows both “trust” funds are in worse shape than last year. The Trustees report projects Medicare going bankrupt five years sooner than their 2010 report and SS a year sooner than last year. Having worked with actuaries in the past, I know that their projections have a wide range of possible outcomes depending on the assumptions used in the calculations. Given that all the Trustees are Barry appointees, it’s pretty safe to say this report is a best-case scenario. Maybe the Dem Senators should have spent the time they wasted on yesterday’s big oil Soviet style show trial trying to figure out a way to fix the holes in their beloved New Deal Ponzi schemes.
From MSDNC.com:
WASHINGTON — Two of the government's most popular programs for the elderly, Medicare and Social Security, will run out of money sooner than thought earlier as a slow-growing economy saps revenues, a report Friday said.
Trustees for the two funds said the Medicare trust fund is projected to exhaust its funds in 2024, not 2029 as estimated last year, and that the Social Security retirement program will run out of money in 2036, not 2037 as previously thought.
American - OK, you wanted some citations.
About disbanding the group that was looking for OBL:
Reference US Navy Disabled's post : http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/05/09/6611027-first-thoughts-obamas-last-seven-days?commentId=20759747#c20759699
If you want to look at the direct citation, here it is: http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=afghanwar_tmln&afghanwar_tmln_us_invasion__occupation=afghanwar_tmln_us_redirection_of_forces_to_iraq
If you want to see where President Bush's actions were to find OBL:
Check out Anna Molly's post: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/05/06/6596305-first-thoughts-pivoting-back-to-jobs?commentId=20753338#c20753251
In both of these posts, there are many citations that bolster their points, which are too numerous to post here.
As far as what I believed what President Bush had - or didn't have - is irrelevent; what IS relevent is that PresidentBush deemed OBL as 'no threat' and divert those resources to be used in the folly known as Iraq.
So yes, America WAS in deep Sh!t for a long time.
This is a courtesy, American, because I usually do NOT have the time to scrounge for citations. We have debated before and you have been pretty fair in how you debate. Read the citations and hopefully you will get some of the answers you are asking me for.
I want to thank US Navy Disabled and Anna Molly for their contributions and I hope they don't mind that I use them as source material(s).
Then it's time for Republicans to finally agree to lifting the ceiling on earnings subject to Social Security taxes--that alone will fill HALF the gap for the next 75 years.
Just one example of how these are MANAGEABLE issues, except that Conservatives want to provoke a crisis. One more way in which they're taking every available opportunity to further their war on the middle class.
Then it's time for Republicans to finally agree to lifting the ceiling on earnings subject to Social Security taxes--that alone will fill HALF the gap for the next 75 years.
_______________________________
John B: You do realize that what you're proposing would voilate the promise FDR made to the American people. When he sold them his SS Ponzi scheme he promised that they would only have to pay SS tax on a portion of their earnings, the first $3,000 when SS was implemented in 1937. That amount has been increased to keep up with the national wage index ever since resulting in today's $106,800 cap. If Dems support dismantling such a fundamental promise of the New Deal, where will it all end?? Will SS become a means tested welfare program?? Sounds like it's the Republicans who are keeping FDR's promise. Lefty liberal Dems like you should be ashamed of yourselves for wanting to break FDR's SS promise to the American people.
Little Bobby Numbers:
As usual, you are full of it: There is no proof that water boarding provided any actionable intelligence. You are just spouting rhetoric and half truths again. Funny, the only people really claiming it had any benefit are those that supported torture to begin with and that by the way is what waterboarding is – torture and it is wrong an illegal.
Peter King was telling what other people told him – again NO PROOF just “well that is what I was told”.
Typical GOP/TP, cannot think for themselves and rely on somebody else to tell them what to say.
The one person that really knows about torture, a man who has lived it for 5 years, a many who still wears its scares today, a patriot and an America – Mr. John McCain says it does not work. I will take the word of a Naval Officer and his record over your (little baby bobby numbers) loud mouth any day of the week.
Pietro has presented the facts which you cannot debunk, so instead you use comments from people who have NO PROOF that waterboarding directly lead to OBL but claims he was told that by somebody else.
The CIA director did not say the it was waterboarding that was directly the result of taking out OBL. He answered no to a question saying he could not totally rule it out but that in fact the information came from many sources - see above. You are being misleading. Not being able to rule it out is not the same thing as yes it is.
In fact every day the chances that waterboarding did any are less and less as more information is coming out.
Show us concrete proof that is did what you say and not just more speculation. There is NO PROOF that waterboarding led to taking out OBL. There just is not.
Give it bobby diapers, President Bush is never going to get the credit of taking out Bin Laden, President OBama is and that is how it will be recorded in the History Books. President Bush will be the footnote of the President that failed in Afghan and helped let Bin Laden escape at Tora Bora.
Pietro: Please feel free to use any of the links I put up here. There are many more than just the ones I use.
John B: BTW, the Medicare wage cap was completely removed in 1994 and it's still going broke. Ponzi schemes are unsustainable in the long run and, by definition, must fail when the number of people taking out money exceeds the number of people paying in.
Just ask Bernie Madoff.
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/john-mccain-neither-waterboarding-nor-any-other-form-of-torture-led-to-bin-laden/
In both a Washington Post Op-Ed and a speech today on the Senate floor, McCain completely dismantled the argument that torture led to Osama bin Laden:
All that proves is that we need to go after the real culprits that are driven up Health Care Costs and NOT the program per se.
Insurance Companies need to be brought under control as they are the ones raising Premiums atdouble digits. In fact their costs are going higher for Private Health Care coverage than it is for Medicare/Medicaid.
Drug Companies - A report out this week several drug companies have increased cost on popular drugs used by the elderly by over 50% in some cases. Why, because their patents are running out in a few years and they are squeezing every last dime out of us before the generic equivalent is available
Medical Product(s) Manufactures and Distributors, many of which are operating as monopolies as are the Drug Companies in some cases.
Address these and Health Care costs will come down.
Navy,
You continutally provide your insight, which at times is interesting, illustrating a different point of view than mine. Apparently, you love to debate. Have you thought of running for a government position rather than be an internet demagogue?
safecracker:
Way too old. Politics is a young mans/womens game now. We need new blood not old tired set in their ways blood (that includes me). We need people that like to debate, fight the good fight but at the end of the day they have something that helps everybody on the table.
As a nation we can no longer afford the luxury of us against them within ourselves. It must be we against those that would harm us. That is what made us strong, not infighting amongst ourselves.
WOW... that is a heck of a compliment that safecracker paid you, US Navy Disabled.
Safecracker, we rarely agree on anything, but your last post to US Navy Disabled is definitely the BEST post of the day.
Thank you for that.
Well Navy, we can agree - we do need new blood in Congress, irregardless of the political party. I have no issue with a civil debate, where at the end of the day, the debate winner proposes his/her bill with no verbal attacks like we now have.
And I agree with your last statement, we need to continually be strong against the hords wishing to kill us. and they are there.
But I will disagree with you regarding the direction we are now in, spending our way to a recovery that should be implemented with hiring and increasing revenue, reducing expense and consolidation of government to be more efficient.
I also feel sorry that the style of debate on this forum is what it is, with the attacks on desenting views. We are both guilty, as are many on this site.
But, life will go on. While I do disagree with your views, I do support you right to say them.
Another Conservative empty narrative with nothing inside it. An examination immediately debunks the "ponzi scheme" lie, needless to say;
http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/06/news/economy/social.security.fortune/index.htm
We could be debating this on the merits...unfortunately the merits of the argument don't favor Conservatives so they'd prefer to deal in emotion and false narratives that deflect rather than enlighten.
Safecracker:
Thank you. I will make a deal with you. I would love to talked about a number of topics as you do have some thoughts that are really not far from mine. I will keep it civil, no name calling and no personal attacks.
I have always agreed that we do have a serious spending problem. I think everything really needs to be on the table if we are going to make any plan work. I agree that just throwing money at problems is not always the best solution but sometimes you need to spend money to make money. If true then we need to be very careful on what we are spending money on. I would rather our politicians got together and find out what is causing the problem and fix that. For example, throwing more money into programs (what ever they may be) when they are already loaded with fraud, waste, mismanagement, old nonfunctional policies (programs) and other issues is a waste of tax payer dollars unless the above is eliminated. Now, I know we cannot get rid of all of the issues, people will still try and scam any system or program, but it seems to me that the most prudent attack is to go after the root of the problem.
I am basically a fiscal conservative and Social Progressive/Liberal. I believe there are good ideas on both sides but we got ourselves into this pissing match where some are afraid to even open there mouths for fear of attack from somebody, even their own.
If I do not get a chance to speak with you later I will look foe you Monday. Have a great weekend.
John B: When your SS check bounces in 2036 or earlier given the Pollyanna report, tell your fairy tale to all the people YOU have to pay bills to and get back to me with their "FU, pay me" reponses.
First the checks are not going to go down to zero. They will be about 75-80% of what they are today if we do nothing. But we are going to do something to extend the lifespan of full benefits, just not today.
Navy,
So you cannot refute Panetta, Obama's trusted CIA Director, Obama's new Secretary of Defense that's a liar? Wow not a good pick by Obama, huh?
He didn't say anything about "he couldn't totally rule out" -YOUR WORDS not Panetta's.
Watch the video, read the quote ....... how stupid do you have to be to deny what Panetta said?
That's right ...... you and Pietro already answered that ...... DUMBER THAN A BIRTHER!
US Navy -
The courier's code name was given by KSM between 2003 & 2005. When the "Enhanced Interrigations were being used.
When Rumsfeld was asked if the "enhanced interrogations" had produced the information. What Rumsfeld actually said was that he could not say for certain that the "enhanced Interrogations" produced this information. That is not the same as saying directly that "enhanceed Interrogations" did not produce the intelligence. LATER he also said he could not rule out "enhanced interrogations" as the source for the initial clue to Bin Laden's Courier code name.
I.E. This on the cover is a tie - until I heard an interview with Secretary Gates. Gates was asked about the same question as Rumsfeld. His response was that all information is a rather large mosaic of all intelligence gathered so determining and the origin of the source was not tracked. Later in the interview Gates also said that it was determined that when KSM was waterboarded, he had a tendency to give false information. During the "Enhanced Interrogation" he several times tried to make that the courier name was a fabrication.
Leon Panetta has since confirmed that "Enhanced Interrogations" did play a role in getting intelligence in this matter.
An what does McCain know. You are asking someone who was tortured and interrigated under far more severe circumstances. He's never going to want to admit that what was done to him actually works.
My dad is an "old salt". Part of his training was about handling interrogation. What they told him is that resist giving information to all your ability, but remember, at some point, you may give information by mistake.
Making judgements from news media sources, based on "sound bites" is not a very wise thing to do. These people are writing persuasive pieces by providing only the information that supports their argument. It is up to you to search out the other side, find what they say, and then figure out what the facts really are.
So now McCain is a liar, Rummy is a liar, everybody is a liar except you two twits. Sorry not buying it and neither is the American people.
If we are to believe as the GOP/TP is trying desperately to make us believe that President Bush did in fact have the information and it was garnered by water boarding. If he did have all the information then why did he not act upon it and take OBL out?? Why????? Was President Bush a “sympathizer” of OBL? That would explain why he let OBL escape from Tora Bora. May also be a reason he changed his priority so suddenly to Iraqbasically closing down the operation in Afghan. Maybe that is why he dissolved the CIA department in 2005 that was tracking OBL. Or was he just totally incompetent? I just believe he did not have the information, KSM did not give up the real name of the courier, he only acknowledge the code name and also said he was not important, and the torture did not yield one dam# solid actionable piece of intelligence period. Most of the CIA people in the media this week agree with that position. Only GOP/TP are saying differently. Now why would they do that?
It is over, it is done, Bin Laden is gone. It will go down in History that a democrat President with a funny name took out Bin Laden. It will be noted in the History books that this came about when President Obama took charge of the CIA and re-organized it and made Bin Laden a "priority". It will note the additional resources that our President sent to Afghan and how the intelligence gathered on his watch led to killing of Bin Laden. History will also note the failure of Presdent Bush and his total mismanagement of Afghan right next to his failure of the economy and almost Bankrupting this country.
pietro - interesting that you referenced anna on this as we both linked the same NYT's article that cited the end of the special group, but not the ending of the search for bin laden as the CIA spokeswoman specifically pointed out.
Annas use of thinkprogress op-eds and video excerpts does not prove that bush stopped looking for for bin laden just as the NYT's article doesn't prove it either.
I have no idea on why you brought up navy's posts as they had no bearing on the question at hand and referencing current events is not a good sales point in trying to minimize, negate or prove past actions. All it shows is evidence not available at the original time in question.
The article about US troops exercising near osamas compound in 2008 as implying bushes lack of interest begs the question of why didn't obama take out bin laden in 2009? Didn't he have access to the same info?
Right USN, even if we do nothing right now with SS the checks won't stop, they'll be reduced. As I've stated above reasonable action will fix this problem.
The only reason it hasn't been done already is that radical Conservatives in the Ayn Rand school don't want to fix Social Security--they want to eliminate it. When those radicals from the John Birch Society corner of Conservatism lose their primacy in the Republican Party it will once again become possible to address the issue like adults.
why johnb, you are such a CT! lol
@Navy,
I am also a fiscal conservative, but I am having a difficult time understanding how you can be both a fiscal while being a Social Progressive/Liberal? To me, it's a oxymoron. From what I have seen during my time on planet earth, Social Progressives spend, spend, and spend without consideration of where the revenues come from. It appears to me that this continuation of creating programs or policies to further impact spending just isn't correct. If you believe in spending, then do you also believe in increasing taxes to support the spending?
Now I can't support this idea Navy, for I can't see how spending money to make money is a reality process. Can you elaborate your position? But I will agree that our politicos need to somehow find the root issue and fix the issue. Unfortunately, the party lines are stronger than the need to work for the people who elected them. I would like to see many of these professional politicans leave office, replaced by folks with common sense that actually believe in the process of laws, the knowledge of whom they represent and the ability to work to effect change for the betterment of this country. But that is just a dream at this point in time.....won't change until the elite mentality is removed from DC.
I also feel government is too large, and can be reduced in size, merging department redundency while saving money for the taxpayer and creating a more efficient department. Military spending should be strong, with more of a budget for those organization providing humint, elint and commint, while taking a strong look into actual and non-logical procurement programs.
Oh well, have a good weekend Navy.....and in December in Philadelphia - GO ARMY!
xx
I Wanna Run, But I'm Gonna Lose:
The GOP/TP is becoming more fun to watch with each passing day. Nasty, negative Newt is now running. For over 30 years I've heard his racist speeches about the evil Democrats. Yes I after some thought I said the "r" word. The problem is that it is true and way too easy to document. But he is not a viable candidate, and Newt is not worth trying to defend.
Mitt Romney hasn't officially thrown his hat into the ring, but he's running. The fascinating issue here is that the Tea Party does have a strangle hold on the GOP and the Tea Party is not interested in any moderate, especially Romney. Romney cannot admit that the health care plan he signed as Massachusetts governor is working. So now he has to betray his own past accomplishments. Romney's primary presenting problem is that even Romney doesn't know what he believes. He just says words, then different words, depending on the group he is talking to.
Today Ron Paul will announce his run for the Presidency. I like the name Ron. His problem is the exact opposite of Mittens. Ron does know what he believes and he is the standard bearer for the Libertarians. Ron is showing his age (80) and he struggles with the notions presented by his hero, Ayn Rand, because these beliefs simply do not fit the real world. That 25% of Americans who buy into Libertarian philosophy is far from the majority and Ron's chances are slim to none. (And Slim just left town.)
Then we have two of my favorite characters: Tim Pawlenty and Mitch Daniels. Both have about as much charisma as two empty chairs. Boy, I hope one or both are picked by the GOP/TP as POTUS or VPOTUS candidates.
Next we have the preacher turned politician, Mike Huckabee. I can't say whether Mike will run or not. But I have noticed that the money he has received from Fox News has a way of making Mike put both feet in the material world. Preacher turned political pundit: that may be pretty accurate.
So, who's left? Don't rule out The Donald and Sarah Palin. They have about as good a chance as any of the above.
** At a time when Gov. Perry is screaming hardship and cutting Social Programs while giving tax breaks to Millionaires & Billionaires he finds an additional $250 Million for racing. I guess he had extra money left over from all those cuts to Social Programs etc. If he has money for auto racing he better not be looking for a handout from Uncle Sam.
**And what happened to the debt ceiling argument we have been hearing from the right?? They want another $700 Billion on the books that we do not even want except for Boehner and Cantor who have plants that make the engines in their districts. How can we even remotely take the GOP/TP serious let alone believe anything that comes out of their mouths. Sure Boehner will give up the oil subsidies because he probably will try and leverage this as a trade off.
** This false claim that President Obama did not create any jobs has been debunked over and over; Krugman, Stockman, CBO, CBPP, CEPR, WSJ, NYT, and just about every leading economist (republican and democrat) totally disagree with this clown. Same old same old lies and outright deceit from the COP/TP. When are these guys goings to come clean and admit that they caused the worst recession since he great depression?
** No proof that torture led to any actionable intelligence wipes out any claim that President Bush supporters may have that he deserves even partial claim for taking out Bin Laden. It was the re-organization of the CIA under the eye of President Obama, the Intelligence Community that got the goods on the location of the courier and the skill and courage of Navy Seal Team #6 and had very little if anything to do with Bush
http://thinkprogress.org/2011/05/03/bush-did-not-catch-bin-laden/ http://thinkprogress.org/bin-laden-timeline
These two articles above are must reading if you really want the whole story on how President Bush was an absolute failure in Afghan and washed his hands of OBL very early in the war and changed his priority to Iraq. The current GOP/TP rhetoric on how President Bush should get credit for taking out Bin Laden is a “Red Herring” for a back door attempt to try and legalize torture thereby providing cover to Bush and Cheney from possible legal actions for “war crimes”.
The GOP/TP in my opinion is lost. They have yet to offer and Job or Economic Stimulus plans, they claim “abortions” are their number one priority followed by voter disenfranchisement and the repeal of all Social Programs like Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and another 50 – 60 Social Programs. All Programs that benefit the Middle Class and Low Income earners while giving record tax cuts to Millionaires and Billionaires. This is the New GOP/TP. Just look at heir current board of Presidential candidates, a bunch of recycled failures trying to get another bite at living in the White House.
The Oil Hearings yesterday were a joke on the American People. Want to really impact the cost of oil? Go after those who set the prices, the “Speculators”. There is a bevy of reports out that claim these guys are adding about $20-$30 dollars to the cost of every barrel produced. This translates into about $0.80 per every gallon of gas. I have written about these guys before and in the Ryan Bill there is a provision that guts 50% of the budget on the department that is in charge of controlling the Speculators. Connect the dots people., connect he dots.
Nicely said, Ron, great way to end the week.
Listening to Mitt Romney yesterday trying to explain RomneyCare was painful. He said universal health care was popular when he signed the law but now his party doesn't like it. Well, Mitt, the reason it is unpopular is because the GOP lied about it and sold that lie to the voters with nonexistent death panels, government take over, blah blah because the GOP is in the pockets of big insurance right next to big oil.
If Romney wanted to be a solid, respectable candidate, he would take his victory in Massachusetts and sell it for what it does--increases coverages for everyone, lowers the cost for everyone and it is working. Lost opportunities in the name of being for what is popular instead of being for what is right.
Hi Navy,
You know how it flows with the Republicans along with their sources such as FOX, who are great at creating their own facts. It's a shame that the knuckle heads believe them.
I have one question-
Does think progress get so few hits on its site that it needs to be disseminated by its supporters?
Jody: the thing that stuck out the most from what Mittie said is "personal responsibility". He believes that the mandate he imposed was reasonable since it made people "responsible" to buy insurance. It is no leap of logic that he must support HCR for making the same requirement. Will be fun to watch him tap dance.
Hi Ron,
So true. Good old Huckabee likes the money that he is getting from FOX. Also, I see he is re-writing history with his new animated history lesson videos for kids. Talking about a spin on reality, he is out there as far as re-writing history.
As Radar O'Reily would say to No Jo: "ahhh...yes. That's HIGHLY significant".
JOB1:
They do seem to have a reality problem. They have nothing of value to offer the American People. Just flipping and a flopping and a flopping and a flipping. Trying to follow what these guys really stand for at any given moment makes me dizzy.
They are lost and they know it. Now they are grabbing at imaginary straws coated in their own snake oil.
President Obama is going to win re-election in 2012 unless the GOP/TP is successful in destroying this country and putting the blame at the feet of "Our President". This has been their agenda from day one and they are stepping it up.
If the GOP/TP wins, America Looses. It is that simple.
lmao NJNB! Your the proverbial thorn under the pantie wads of Bev and Feisty! Nothing like a good old fashioned cat fight to make the day go by faster. I'm just happy you can spell and use grammar correctly!
Job1:
A special shout-out to you. I read your comments every day and enjoy what you have to say. Keep up the good work.
Gingrich – the MSM will carve him up, but most normal folks will listen to what he has to say. We'll see which prevails.
Romney – the only chance he has of getting the Republican nomination is if he's the last man standing after bitter or boring internecine primary fights.
The Donald – really hurt himself by dropping those F-bombs, can't see how he can recover.
Pawlenty and Daniels – dull? No charisma? Good grief, we elected Mr Charisma last time around and look what it got us. They both have a shot.
Santorum – who the heck is this guy, why is he running for president, and why should anyone pay any attention to him after he lost his Senate race by something like 18 points?
Huckabee – I agree with FR on this one, those videos he's peddling are propaganda. Appalling, go away.
Christie – A man who says he's not ready to be president is a man who is being painfully but refreshingly honest. And a man who would be very hard pressed to change his mind. He's out.
Paul – many of his ideas resonate broadly, many others do not. He's a sideshow that distracts from the main event.
Bush (Jeb) – who the heck are the Great Mentioners who are mentioning this guy? Whoever they are, their kool-aid is even stronger than what the left drinks.
Bachman – smart, successful (private sector as well as politics), compassionate (20 something foster kids?). A dark horse with a much better shot than the left will ever acknowledge.
Palin – ah my biggest fave, and biggest disappointment. She had a golden opportunity to be THE default nominee. But she had to work on her gravitas chops, and she didn't. Her only shot is if it starts looking like Romney will be the last man standing, and she swoops in at the last minute to challenge.
So who's it gonna be? Heck if I know, but as of today I'd put my money on Pawlenty or Daniels (if he gets in). And if the economy is still struggling in 2012, either of those guys can beat Obama.
Texas dominates rankings for best cities for jobs
By STEVE CAMPBELL
For the second year in a row, Texas' five major metropolitan areas nailed down half the top 10 spots in an annual ranking of the best cities to find a job.
_________
Navy just to complete the picture about Texas, we are adding jobs which is always good to hear. More people are coming in from other states for those jobs; however as more of these people come in they are shocked to find that our school systems are faltering. Instead of dealing with the problem the legislature wants to starve the system. With the latest state budgets which do not plan for current needs let alone future needs, I sadly predict that Texas will not be a good place for jobs come this fall. As you mentioned some estimates predict that nearly 100,000 teachers will lose their jobs. State agencies designed to serve the public which include members of the most fragile and dependent Texans look to be cut dramatically.
About the Formula One racing, I wouldn't mind it coming here if it brought more jobs and development. Texas Motor speedway, I think it is NASCAR, is a big economic boon to our area. Not my thing but if a bunch of people want to watch cars turn left for hours on end I got no problem with it. However, I do not want money directed from the state to get them to come. Why do they need $25 million? The beer swilling crowd will come for Formula one no need to bribe the developers.
As is often the case in Texas, money is often diverted for the least important endeavours. Read in the paper the other day that Allen, Texas (in DFW metroplex) is building a $60 million football stadium - a high school football stadium. I am an architect, I am not against construction or development but at the same time it is ironic that teachers from that school district are being let go. I guess it shows the type of priorities in Texas.
Bill:
A decent analysis: You were doing pretty good until your last comment. But you and I can respectfully disagree. Oh, don't put any bets on Gingrich. Much too negative to gain popular support.
Ron-
You and I seem to have the same problem. I need to do the xxx on a comment form before I can get into posting. Some times my name comes right up, most times it doesn't. Weird, don't know why.
PS- Always like your posts, always right on.
Yes I agree. I think Bill's analysis was spot on.
Including his last line. In 2012, the main factor will be the economy and if we are still at 9% unemployment for whatever reason, Obama or any sitting incumbent would be hard pressed to win.
Would it have been better for Romney to have apologized for his Massachusetts law (what the Wall Street Journal editorial page wanted him to do), or stick to his guns?
A (successful) Northeast Republican is a different bird from a national Republican pol.
Case in point: the Maine State House has voted to reform healthcare insurance, with Republicans in the majority, pushing for the legislation, sounding like Barack Obama, saying things like "the voters have been crying out for relief from high premiums and the cost of healthcare, this is not a perfect bill but we have to act."
The Republicans have voted to impose fees for every insured person, that could cost a family an additional $200 a year, to fund health insurance for the sickest Mainers in the high risk pool.
Democrats were fighting against changes that may lead rural hospitals to close and unfairly impact the Northern part of the state (which, ironically, usually supports the Republican Party)
It's fascinating to look at state government vs national government, in terms of Party and ideology. Meanwhile, our Tea PArty Governor, who is probably closer to the national model of Republicanism, is sinking, sinking in approval. His latest controversy is an attempt to defund the Maine Public Broadcasting Network (ironically the only channel some rural folks get without cable.) This guy is not popular and getting less so.
Bill Fairfax VA:
Gingrich makes insane statements about some conspiracy between Muslims and secular humanists and racist statements like the one about how President Obama is a Kenyan anti-colonialist. People who listen to that crap are not normal. They are most likely the product of inbreeding.
2012 will be a referendum on Obama. If the economy is where it is now, or worse, it won't matter who the Republican nominee is, they will win.
I know! :(
Newt: When I was speaker...
Yeah, you were cheating on your second wife with wife number three.
Sure thing devie, and that wasn't even the LEAST of the unethical things he was doing...
Anyone remember jimmy carter? Was he even widely known prior to the iowa caucuses? Who is to say a relative unkown won't break thru.
Bill, nice analysis.
"Bottom-line -Waterboarding worked, Obama wouldn't have his greatest achievement of his presidency without it."
_______________________________________________________
You are simply buying the Faux News version, hook, line and sinker. Even what they claim they gathered by "enhanced interrogation" (aka TORTURE) required ten years to pan out in any way. It was but a tiny piece of the puzzle.
You don't want to give this administration credit but we already know who you would be calling a failure at the top of your lungs if this mission (never undertaken by the Bush administration) had gone awry?
HYPOCRITES!
Bill: You lost me at equating Bachman with being "smart"....the lady who says we don't need a minimum wage law because all employers give minimum wages anyway? That natural selection can't be "proven" because no one knows how blades of grass become blades of grass? The lady who said Congress is filled with people who are anti-American? (you can tell when they don't agree with you). The one who said the founders of this country worked to outlaw slavery?? That Planned Parenthood steals girls away from parents to conduct secret abortions? That Terry Schaivo was "healthy"? That 50% of African American pregnancies are aborted so waiting white parents all across America can't adopt them? The one who said "we're running out of rich people in this country?" That swine flu only breaks out during Democratic Presidencies? THAT Michele Bachman...? Sorry, couldn't stop laughing long enough to finish your post.
That's the one, AP. The Conservative Movement has become so extreme they don't even recognize actual extremism anymore.
We learned that republicans do not have anybody running for president.
I must say for once I admire John MCain; Tunde
Your comment is very significant; thank you
Thanks Beverly.... I've always admired Ol' Mac policies.... but it seemed like he went of a cliff when running against Hayworth (or what's his face) during Tucson's 2010 senate race. I like moderate senators who are willing to not only work together for the good of the country (putting their idealogy aside), but also thinking rationally; while not curtailing to their extreme base. McCain represented this before.... and seem to wondering into Tea Bag land.
Now... we all just say "MAC IS BACK, MAC IS BACK"
Tunde, I think McCain was sliding down that cliff in 2006 when he decided he'd run for president. Instead of being McCain, he became something else after Bush beat him in 2000 and sometimes it wasn't pretty. Rarely did we see the old Mac during the 2008 campaign--an occasional glimmer only. I always liked McCain even though I disagreed but he lost my respect for several years. It's good to see him back as himself.
So let's see. A flip-flopper is ok and back to himself if he flips back to what YOU like, but is a liar and a huckster if the flipper and his/her beliefs are not YOURS. Webster has just put the pictures of those who believe that way beside the definition of hypocrite.
Ben-636050
I don't know exactly what you're complaining about, but if you're referring to John McCain's position on the use of torture, that is ONE issue that he has never wavered on one single bit. His flip-flop on immigration reform is still pretty bad, but at least he's never been a torture enthusiast.
I noticed the President called on businesses to hire more people.
I always thought businesses hire more employees to meet current or
future demand, not just for the sake of hiring.
But if the President says it then I think he could lead by example. He had an income of
$1.7M, on which he paid around $450K (26%), leaving $1.25M. So, assuming he and
his family can live on $250K, which is in the top 2%, this leaves $1M. This means
he could employ 10 people at $100K (inc benefits). I don't know what these people
would actually do, maybe Michelle needs some help around the house, but if its good enough for the President then it should be good enough for American business.
Poor mistreated American businesses, making record profits, getting bonuses even when their businesses are complete disasters, and getting bailed out by the taxpayers whenever they screw up . . . all with zero tax liability themselves.
Somebody pass me a tissue.
I looked up General Motors on Wikipedia. Did you write their wiki page because that's exactly what it says.
Thanks for the laugh, Alan.
Kind of keeps you from crying over the destructive policies of this president.
The inflation numbers were announced this morning- 2.7%. Sounds okay, right?
Well, first, people need to understand the recalculation involved. So, "quality of life" items are factored in- how many ipads a month do you buy? I am guessing that even the most "techie " among us only buy one every year or two, so, while it is nice that you get more bang for your buck, you still cannot eat them.
Food at home was up 3.9% last month- and that is the GOOD news. Wholesale food prices are up 6.8%; due to competition, grocery chains are eating the costs. How do they do that and still make a profit? They cut hours, and lay- off employees.
Kind of explains the rise in new claims for unemployment.
In other news, we are going to unload GM stock this summer- Obama sees it as a drag on his campaign. Good for us, right?
Wrong. We are going to take a bath, to the tune of about $20billion.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/05/gms-bailout-has-been-a-huge-net-loss/238795/
Do not get me started on the inflation rate for gas- which affects everything, not just driving to work. Obama's "plan" is to demagogue the issue- maybe even raise taxes on the oil companies. Hmmm- so, in response to a rise in consumer pieces, his solution is to raise the cost of doing business?
Makes as much sense as whining that businesses should hire more people because it will be good for his re-election.
Obama says he needs four more years because he cannot "finish the job" in only one term. If he gets it, he will finish us off.
He should have stuck to WTF. That is how most people feel about his presidency.
Especially when they pay for their groceries or fill up their cars.
Alan:
Huh?
I make up all my comments in real time all by myself . . . and what does my comment have to do with GM . . . please help me understand what in the world you are talking about.
Edited to add:
It is very early, but I may have just caught on to what you are saying . . . a GM bailout crack? lol
GM got a loan and paid it back and is now adding jobs to the economy, all over the objections of our Republican "representatives" in Congress, like my very own Senator Bob Corker, who did all he could to protect Nissan, a big employer in middle Tennessee, and I am sure a backer of the Senator.
A perfect representation of the REAL Republican slogan - Profits First.
If there is someone that doesn't have the vaguest clue about understanding capitalism, it would be Obama. He's the first president that needed a translator when he talked to business groups, he just does not speak their language. Obama says businesses should "Step up" and hire people. Not a chance, not with Obama berating businesses every day, spouting rhetoric that he'll increase their taxes, regulate them to the point where businesses can't breath, and if the businesses manage to make a profit, he'll have his helper idiot Harry Reid schedule Senate hearings to berate businesses even more.
no joe:
I love the way you keep trying to impress us with your economic knowledge.
Sad that all the numbers that you throw at us weekly can't disguise the fact that that "conservative" economic policies have been a disaster. The only thing sadder than that is to see you still clinging to that crap and trying to blame it on President Obama.
What a waste of potential on your part.
Sure, GM, now there's an American success story. That company failed, and it failed miserably. Obama comes in, without Congressional approval, and bails them out, screws over the bond holders who would have been first in line for compensation in a bankruptcy, relieves the company of all its debt thus screwing over GM vendors, injects billions of taxpayer dollars to prop it up, and now its stock price is underwater from its IPO, meaning the current owners (the government) will lose billions more on GMs sale.
That's how Obama believes a business should be run.
And this is different from Wall Street only in the fact that Wall Street paid the initial loans back as well. GM is still owned by the government and won't pay back the initial investment unless their share are sold for around $62. The only Wall St company that still owes money is AIG and we're never getting our cash out that mess. And don't even think of Freddie and Fanny.
*hands JoAnna the tiniest violin on Earth*
Poor businesses . . . why in the world would we need to regulate them . . . I mean, what could go wrong, right?
You are such a huge joke.
Dear Alan:
The GM bailout worked. Deal with it . "Real Americans" are happy about it.
Edited to add:
GM actually makes a real product, what does Wall Street make, other than an incentive for folks to create ponsy schemes and money for folks doing little more than stealing from Peter to pay themselves?
My cat has more knowledge of economics than the NJ nut job! lol
Spin it all you want, Nash. Inflation is here- I did warn you it was coming- and it is hurting people. They are paying more for gas and groceries, and, by the way, people who work in those sectors are seeing their hours cut, if not being outright laid off.
I actually LIKE the Obama talking point that businesses do not hire because they do not like him. I think he should GO with that.
See, then, unemployed people will say- I cannot get a job because businesses do not like Obama. Since I REALLY want a job, it is a choice between him and me.
Guess who is going to win that toss up?
no joe:
Your crush on the President is starting to make you seem like a love struck puppy acting out for attentiion.
Enough.
Nash: you really have to wonder why, with all of no jo's much vaunted and prescient knowledge, people are not BANGING on her door, DEMANDING that she save the nation and become President by acclimation!
lmao....... I love feisty bring her Ummmmm "cat" into the discussion! Oh so much i could say!
Uh-oh, now you've done it, Nash - you mnetioned the "p" word! Don't you know that Obama could strangle puppies and we liberals would still worship him?
The Next To Last American President
Herman Cain for President. He would be the first real black man to be president.
Check out your optometrist. They're both black.
Just wanted to remind everyone that before President Obama was even elected the economy was crashing hard, he walked into the storm and did what he had to do. If you haven't noticed, the economy is at least stable and slowly coming around. I agree with the President, they want him out of office, so they aren't hiring. They want the economy to look bad during this election cycle. They want the masses to be unemployed and blame it on the President. Seems to me the Oil companies and Wall street are making record profits...Hmmmm aren't they part of the economy? Seems they should be doing record hiring don't cha think?
Just a thought, McCain took on Palin at the last minute and started acting bat-Sh!t crazy right before the election in order to insure a republican loss in the 2008 Presidential election so the republicans would not have to answer for the previous eight years of mismanagement. They did not want to, nor could they fix the economy using the standard rape the poor and coddle the rich methodology.
This morning on Morning Joe-ke, I saw Senator Orin Hatch saying that the issue is not cutting oil subsidies, it is “singling out” the sweet lil’ oil companies. According to Senator Hatch, singling out is bad, bad, bad.
Curiously, somehow the Republican Party’s actions reflect a much different view on “singling out” . . . ACORN, NPR, Planned Parenthood, Unions, and now, inexplicably Common have all been “singled out” by the Republican Party.
So apparently, “singling out” is A-OK . . . as long as Republicans are the ones doing it.
Are you paying attention America? The Republican Party’s platform is basically this: We can do anything we want, regardless of the consequences, because we are us. Conversely, anything that anyone who is not us does is bad, bad, bad . . . even if they are doing the same things we did when we were in power or doing things that we recommended they do, until we changed our minds.
Remind me again why folks are re-electing these hypocritical clowns who have been dead wrong on just about EVERYTHING they have said for the past DECADE?
P.S. Also too, can anyone name ANYTHING that Speaker John Boehner has EVER DONE to make America better? Has he ever written or sponsored a bill that helped a real person and not a corporate person? Has he ever written or sponsored a bill at all?
P.S.S. Why do Republicans turn a blind eye to adultery, pedophilia, and lie-filled and inflammatory statements when they are doing it, but feign “outrage” if an entertainer exercises their free speech and says something about “killing”? This from the “Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran” crowd, the “show up at Presidential speeches with a gun” crowd, the “torture prisoners” crowd . . . now all of a sudden, their delicate sensibilities are being besmirched? Puh-leeeeeeese.
He cut Nancy Pelosi's time in front of camera.
Wow Alan . . . the bar for success is pretty low with you, eh? lol
Nash: They do not have a bar and if they did they would just keep lowering it away. There is no level that they will not stoop to in order to regain the White House. To them the end justifies the means even if it means we bankrupt this country and create world chaos.
Because the hypocritical clowns on the other side think that wealth redistribution is fair. 53% of citizens pay federal tax. Take out the top 2% who will survive either way and the rest of us, the 51%, are going to be stuck with the bill for all the unfunded liabilities of medicare and social security, which by the time we become eligible will no longer be there.
I watched the chairman of the DCCC this morning say that Democrats were going to protect and preserve medicare. Well tell me how and how much my taxes are going up to achieve this. You had 4 years 2006 -2010 when you did nothing to protect and preserve so you tell your plan before 2012 and I can make decision.
Alan:
I will repeat this as many times as necessary:
Folks who make enough money to pay income taxes pay income taxes.
Wages are stagnant and prices keep rising.
The misleading stat you keep parroting ignores the fact that a significant percentage of Americans are out of work, retired from work, or are children who don't work.
So in summary, that is complete poppycock.
P.S. We are going to fund Medicare by knocking the non-tax paying corporate parasites off the government teat.
"We"? Who's this "we"? That "we" better be some kind of a wizard that takes billions of dollars and makes them into trillions of dollars. Federal spending on Medicare (matched by the states) was $450 billion last year. Knocking off the oil subsides gets you $21 billion, over 10 years.
$21 billion over 10 years. Obama manages to spend $21 billion in deficit spending in about 3 days.
Math challenged is the left. As usual Nash, you have no clue.
Terrific post, Nashville.
The GOPTP singles out to deflect voters from the fact they are doing nothing about jobs and the economy--they change the subject from what they're really doing (big, intrusive government) by focusing on the irrelevant. When Hatch is talking about "dog and pony" show, he isn't talking about corporate welfare for big oil; when he's talking about Common, he isn't talking about the success of the Obama administrative in finding and killing Osama bin Laden. Hatch is scared spitless of a Tea Party challenge--in this instance, I wish the TP the best.
JoAnna:
There are whole lot of other government teat suckers than just the oil companies dear.
Try to open your mind just this once.
P.S. Since the tax breaks oil companies receive represent such a teeny tiny amount, how come they don't just give them up? Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm.
It's made Nancy irrelevant. And that socialist now no longer has a say in policy making or legislation. Speaker Boehner is now managing the intervention into the Democrats world record wasteful deficit spending. The spending that our children will be paying for when they become taxpayers. The Democrats know that children can't vote, that's why they load them up with all of our debt.
JoAnna Smith:
So, because you can't think of a single thing that John Boehner has ever done, you have to make fun of Nancy Pelosi.
You get lamer with each post, but I do give you credit for . . . oh yeah, what have you ever added to the conversation here but lies and delusions?
Oh yeah, entertainment.
Thanks.
Really? Who? The most leftwing congress in recent history couldn't stop subsides to their most hated business, the oil companies (at least hated publicly, I'm sure the Dems enjoy their lobbying checks from big oil). Now the Dems make a lot big noises about the stopping those subsides, but you know what will happen about that Nash? Not a da*n thing. The Democrats are phonies when it comes to taking away the subsides and tax breaks to the very corporations that pay them off.
You really are clueless.
Billions are tiny to the government Nash. Obama spends $21 billion in deficit spending every three days. Its chicken feed to the government. Billions are a lot to big businesses, and they spend millions in lobbying to get those billions. See story below for about GE for details, and this shows what hypocrites the Democrats are on this subject.
http://www.nihp.org/2011/03/31/what%E2%80%99s-good-for-general-electric-is-good-for-the-nation/
Nash
And I will repeat this as many times as necessary:
We spend roughly $700B on defense, $700B on SS, $800B on Medicare, Medicaid and Chips, $200B on interest, $416B on Welfare and $660B on everything else. There are currently 43 million people in SS and Medicare. This will grow to 80million by 2030. The 660B of everything else includes veterans affairs, Scientific Research, EPA, Education....and the corporate teat as you put it. So I'm sure once the Presidents draw down in Afghanistan starts we can reduce defense to $100B (cold day in hell), I'm sure we can raises taxes on the rich a little more (the Presidents phrase not mine), and as you say we can cut off the corporate teat, but at the end of the day interest payments are still going up substantially due increased borrowing and higher rates, and Medicare still needs $38T to survive in its present form.
So I'll ask again, what are Democrats going to do to achieve this goal because the current numbers simply do not work.
Dear Alan and JoAnna:
I love how you folks only pull out "the math" when you are trying to muddy the central issues:
-Republican financial policies have not worked
-Republican Congress critters are there to obstruct, not create solutions
-Republicans claim to want to balance the budget, but feel the only way to do that is to cut people programs and beef up corporate people programs
The problem ain't math, its lies, spin, and obstruction from a political party whose sole objective is to keep working the system they have rigged in their benefit and muddy the waters with enough irrelevent crap that the American people will tune out.
Sorry folks, but until one of ya'll tell me what John Boehner or any other Republican in Congress had done for the AMERICAN PEOPLE, ya'll can keep talking phony stastitics and math among yourselves.
Or throwing up more "flag pin", "Common" and "birth certificate" style trivia.
I am not buying what ya'll are selling.
You see no plans from the Democrats, not a one. There is a bi-partisan group in the Senate called the "Gang of Six", 3 Dems, 3 GOPers that have come up with nothing! The only plan out there is Ryan's plan and the House approval of that legislation. The Democrats have come up with exactly nothing to address the deficits of today, and the growth of entitlement programs in the very near future.
It was good to see yesterday the Democrats crawl out from the rocks they live under to give their pompous speeches about ex-Senator Ensign. That's the first work they've done this year.
It's clear you don't even understand it.
Why isn't any one asking why after campaigning for two years that he and biden would put a "windfall profits tax" on oil companies, and then two days after the election it is erased from the website never to be heard of again.
In a statement released in June of 2008 he said, "I'll make oil companies like Exxon pay a tax on their windfall profits, and we'll use the money to help families pay for their skyrocketing energy costs and other bills." http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSWAT00963020080609
Click here to watch President Obama's campaign commercial regarding a windfall profits tax: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJPo5IGTd0A
Within 48 hours of being elected any mention of the windfall profits tax suddenly disappeared from the Obama/Biden Change.gov website. President Obama did not personally offer any explanation for the disappearance of one of his key campaign promises and to this day he has never mentioned it again. (Pre-change, http://www.asbl.com/documents/Economy_Change.pdf ; Post-change, http://change.gov/agenda/economy_agenda/) .
If anyone has a sound and rational explanation as to why President Obama is still allowing the oil and gas industry to -- in your beliefs devastate our national economy at will to reap windfall profits -- I would love to hear it.
They get upset with uncomfortable truths, is all, JS1.
PLEASE do not bring up inflation.
Or unemployment.
Or the debt.
We need spin! Spin to make Obama appear magnificent! Spin to make him appear invincible! Spin to make his disasters look like successes!
We just have not gotten with the program.
Nash:
I think more and more Americans are not buying their crap either. 90% of America blames the Oil Companies for the $4.00 gas. Actually they should be blaming the "Speculators" the people that set the prices on commodities like oil and grain etc etc. Yes, the oil companies are greedy and taking every advantage of the situation and call us un-American when we are not on their side. We have heard this argument before from a previous administration that called us un-American for disagreeing with them. It is all part of their failed mind set.
There a several reports out that the "Speculators" add about $20-$30 dollar to each barrel of oil. THis translates into about $0.80 per gallon of gas.
The American people do not want Medicare, Medicaid or Social Security repealed. They do want the 2% and Corporations to start paying their fair share. The Millionaires and Billionaires pay a lower effective tax rates than the average middle class blue collar worker.
People are starting to wake up to exactly what it is that the GOP/TP is trying to selling ad they are with you. They are not buying it any longer. I just hope it is not to late.
You'd expect the media to bring up this hypocrisy about Obama, but they're too busy dissectingevery syllable Mitt Romney says at the moment.
no joe:
The only person who keeps bring up the President is you, Joanna, and J. Merle . . . three people who have a MONSTER crush on the President.
This is why you overcompensate to try to cover up for the fact that all you think about day and night is President Obama.
I prefer to talk about the sham and fraud that is the Republican party and how they are full of crap and they keep repackaging the same BS over and over even though it doesn't work for anyone other than them.
But you don't have nothing to say on that front . . . you like to change the subject.
You know you want the President to want you as much as you want him . . . admit it! ;o)
@Joanna -- Rhetorical question only LOL! The point is that obama was going to address "big oil" profits and dropped the ball without an explanation.
Ben:
You are so funny . . . the Republicans in the Congress were all set to put that windfall tax on the oil companies . . . but because the President removed it from his website . . . that is why it never happened.
Uh huh.
We all know that the Oil companies have bought the Congress and that wasn't going anywhere. The President decided to use all his political capital on healthcare . . .a great choice. Love how ya'll can blame EVERYTHING on the President, even if your side ain't done a damn thing for America. It is never ya'lls fault. And still not one of ya'll has named one damn thing that John Boehner or any other Republican in Congress had done.
Not one. Why is that?
@Nashville -- a total misread (probably on purpose) and a miserable attempt at an explanation. The reason it never happened wasn't the website. It was because obama didn't follow up on a campaign promise that he touted for two years. So I am assuming that obama knows what you know that the oil companies bought a democratic-controlled Congress. So, why did he campaign on it heavily? Is he stupid or something??
All the talk about big oil profits and subsidies and blaming them that they are doing something wrong by making profits for employees, stockholders, retirees and investors -- and doing it by the law -- is their fault.
Ben,
Uh huh.
Every single Republican in Congress has gotten nice fat contributions from the poor, mistreated oil companies . . . so save that "Democratically controlled" crap . . . simple fact is that we ain't gonna have a windfall tax because Republicans don't want one . . . simple as that.
Just go ahead and take "personal responsibility" for it and stop trying to blame everyone else.
It is your fault. Yes, you personally.
Are you for a windfall tax, or are you just needing a reason to say "Obama"?
P.S. Even if I was buying your BS about President Obama "dropping the ball", what is stopping Speaker Boehner from picking it up? Do tell.
"Pull out math to muddy the waters". Now I've heard everything. It's the math that doesn't work for either side. I like the Ryan plan because it addresses Medicare and Medicaid. I don't like it because it doesn't pay the deficit down fast enough. I like the idea that the tax code is reformed by removing many dedications that only the wealthy benefit from, but I don't like because it lowers the rates too much. I trust neither side because they are ones who got us to this point and that's the math not the politics. Do I blame George W Bush yes..a big yes. Do I blame the congress from 2000 to 2010, when both sides were in charge...hell yes. Do I blame the current administration...yes because they are kicking the can down road, and instead trying to reduce the deficit in any way continue to spend...just like the last administration.
Thing is Nash you may think my posts are politics thats not the way I see it. The music is about to stop and whoever is charge, democrat or republican, is going to be left holding the bill and we're all (except for the top 2%) going suffer badly.
@Nashville -- desperation doesn't sit well with you. Makes you stutter and stammer. I never questioned who received donations. I never called oil companies poor and/or mistreated. It is amazing that from 2008 to 2010 the minority party could thwart a campaign promise and wield such control over the majority. Again, if you know this then obama must have definitely known this but still campaigned on something he knew he couldn't do. Is he stupid or something?????
If I am personally responsible (pardon me I am laughing too hard to type) . . . . . . . . . then I guess I must have misplaced my invitation to testify before Congress. ROFLMAO!!!!!!
The government can tax the oil companies all they want. It doesn't make a bit of difference to me. I try not to say the "O" word too much because it is dirty, vile and an insult to others with that name and makes me sick to my stomach at the same time.
Other politicians did not campaign on putting a "windfall tax" on oil companies -- the "O" word did. LOL!!!!
Thanks Nashville!
Thanks for battling these guys. Thanks for being on point. I cannot post as well or as fast as you, but you have my full support. Because you are right.
Keep it up!
Thanks fielden . . . hope you have great weekend!
When it was Clinton, don't give him any credit, it was when the Republicans took over that everything fell in to place. He did not write these bills, he just signed off onthem.
When it was Bush, don't blame him, it was when the Democrats took over that everything went bad. He did not write these bills, he just signed off on them.
Now its Obama, blame everything on him, it's all his fault, he writes all the bills ....He is also responsible for everything that happened to this country for the past 30 years. He tried fixing some things, but since the most important thing is to make him fail, we brought in Filibuster and No. Can you imagine if they said yes? Good heavens, then he would get credit for something and we can't have that. Oh my, I forgot, he vetoed everything.
So when all else fails, lets call him every disrespectful name you can come up with and say he is not one of us. Attack his family, his birth, his golfing, basketball or vacations. Once again, if a man brakes a window, or the wind blows up a woman's dress, bet your life it's all Obama's fault.
I try not to say the "O" word too much because it is dirty, vile and an insult to others with that name and makes me sick to my stomach at the same time.
Ben whats the O word, please enlighten me.
Have a good weekend everyone......
"And that's the way it is...." this week.
GOP Presidential hopeful John Davis arrived in Iowa via an RV. He plans to visit all 3,143 counties, parishes and boroughs in the U.S. He decided to run about a year ago "because God told me to". He speaks to voters with his trusty red, white and blue pipe wrench in hand symbolizing ??? He has visited about half the nation's counties. With some luck he should complete his appointed rounds after the Iowa Caucus and before South Carolina.
The MN GOP House passed a Constitutional Amendment to be ratified by voters. It outlaws gay marriage. Constitutions are about ensuring people's rights, not taking them away. Big, intrusive government--GOP style.
At last week's GOP debate in SC, Ron Paul got big cheers for saying government should stay out of the marriage issue, it's no body's business. Rick Santorum got big cheers for saying government should be involved in social issues like marriage. Which is it republicans--big, intrusive government dictating the social issue aspect of people's private lives or small government staying out of people's private lives?
The Sunday after President Obama announced the Navy SEALS had killed Osama bin Laden, republicans on the talk shows outnumbered democrats 3 to 1--that liberal, media bias. They did their best to claim credit for Bush. Rumsfeld, Dick and Liz Cheney still believe we should be waterboarding. Liz said if we capture a high-value terrorist, we have no way to interrogate them. Really, what did we do all those years since 1776? One would think they would not eagerly admit to war crimes (torture is a war crime) but they are quite proud of it.
Speaker Boehner addressed the Economic Club of NY. Wall Street does not want the GOP to play dangerous games with the debt ceiling. The members were none too pleased when Boehner said that without $2 trillion in spending cuts, they will not raise the debt ceiling. After the speech, one attendee commented that "Boehner is out of touch with reality." Pretty bad when the ones who eagerly donate millions to GOP campaigns thinks the GOP has lost it.
The GOP House passed HR3 which will raise taxes on any company that provides insurance that covers abortion. Big, intrusive GOP-style government--blackmailing businesses by telling private industry what it can and cannot provide in health insurance to its employees.
After our President proved what a lying, empty suit Donald Trump is, Trump slumped in the GOP polls down from 26% to 8%. The Donald is now busy formulating his exit from presidential politics. He said he understands why Ross Perot dropped out because "you can't run if you're too successful." Mitt Romney did not get the memo.
Senator Mitch McConnell said that "tough decisions" about medicare and entitlements are needed. It is not a "tough" decision for republicans--they hate all entitlements (we pay into and are entitled to). A "tough decision" for republicans would be raising taxes on the 2% richest and eliminating $4 billion in tax cuts to the world's most profitable industry, big oil--something a huge majority of Americans support doing.
Raul Castro, Cuba's new dictator, added hundreds of new guidelines to allow capitalism without ever using the word capitalism but instead saying these new rules are about "securing the continuity and irreversibility of socialism." He also said that Cuba will not continue to subsidize products. Hey, GOPTP, Cuba is stopping its socialistic subsidizing of products, how about the U.S. doing the same for big oil, etc?
Harold Camping said the end of the world is May 21, 2011, around 6 PM. He recalculated his 1994 end of the world prediction--found some new clues.
Last week GOPTPer Eric Cantor said the House will not pass a resolution to honor the Navy SEALS, CIA, etc. for finding and killing Osama bin Laden. He claimed republicans are determined to stick to their new rules which say that everything they do must be "substantive and meaningful". That is why this week, the GOP passed a resolution renaming a small Texas Courthouse after George H. W. and George W. Bush--"two great Texans". Petty and childish comes to mind; the GOP just cannot bring themselves to acknowledge any success by the Obama administration.
President Obama's job approval numbers rose to 60%. The result was Hannity, Limbaugh and pals went after the positive "rapper with a social conscience" (FOX view in Oct 2010), Common and his invite to a White House poetry reading. Once again, conservatives use distraction--change the subject from something positive such as OBL's demise to something totally irrelevant.
General Motors announced it plans to hire 4200 employees and will be re-tooling plants in 8 states. Now the GOPTP is searching to find voters who are opposed to the killing of Osama bin Laden, having health care, having medicare and saving the American auto industry!
Wednesday, House GOPTP freshmen representatives spoke outside Capitol Hill and asked for "President Obama's help" in getting democrats to stop criticizing them for their vote on the Ryan Budget to kill medicare. "Please, let's get past the past," one freshmen said. They sent a letter to the White House, too. 235 House GOPTPers voted "yea" to kill medicare--they made a choice to follow Ryan over a cliff--and then had the audacity to stand on Capitol Hill before the press begging the President and democrats to make it go away and stop picking on them. You just cannot make this stuff up.
The U.S. Senate threw the book at disgraced Senator John Ensign. They released the report of their investigation; the evidence was damning. Had Ensign not resigned, he would have been only the 16th Senator to have been expulled from the Senate. The report has been sent to the DOJ and it is possible that criminal charges will be filed against him. Will the Senate now reprimand Senator Tom Coburn for his role in negotiating the bribery deal? What about the other "C" Street dwellers who participated in the attempted cover up?
Senator John McCain stood on the Senate floor Thursday and blasted former Bush administration officials for their comments claiming that enhanced interrogation techniques led to the finding and killing of Osama bin Laden. McCain, having been given access to the CIA's report, clearly stated that KSM did not provide any intelligence leading to OBL despite being water-boarded 183 times. He stated the information that led to OBL was provided by a detainee in another country (not through rendition) as a result of that country's use of legal, standard interrogation methods. Welcome back, Senator McCain, you have been gone too long!
The CEO of Conoco-Phillips says it would be "unAmerican" to take away their corporate welfare and if Congress does, there will be consequences. The top five oil companies made about $35 billion in first quarter profits this year and they have the nerve to threaten Americans if Congress stops giving them $4 billion in corporate welfare tax breaks--they will take their toys and leave. How American is that attitude coming from the most profitable industry in the history of the world?
Jody,
Great wrap up for the week.
Jody: Excellent recap of the weekly news events. You always hit the mark in terms of tone and accuracy.
Jody:
Outstanding post to end the week. I guess the part time congress is off next week???
This is my favorite for the week;
I find this item interesting for a couple of reasons. Firstly, it isn't the past--it's the future that Republicans actually voted for. It's REALLY the budget as they'd like to see it.
Secondly, it highlights just how badly Conservatives want to be judged by their rhetoric instead of their actions. They KNOW what they're doing is opposed by the majority of Americans. They KNOW what they're doing hurts the majority of Americans. They want nothing more than to slip their draconian plans through without being noticed.
Really! Jody, you brought the magnificent 14 to a rousing crescendo. Navy may need a few days off to recover. Bev is busy getting Rhams new office re designed and Feisty's playing with her "cat" Bravo ! Well done.
It is a fun post to do and nice to know you enjoy it, thanks.
Navy, thanks for adding that Congress is off on another vacation. Two weeks working, one week off. I think the first spending cut should be to their salary and benefits.
John B. That was my favorite, too. Definitely it is not the past, and they own their "yea" votes. I've watched politics for years and do not recall anything like those freshmen GOPTP-ers.
John B:
Right on the money.
Secondly, it highlights just how badly Conservatives want to be judged by their rhetoric instead of their actions. They KNOW what they're doing is opposed by the majority of Americans. They KNOW what they're doing hurts the majority of Americans. They want nothing more than to slip their draconian plans through without being noticed.
This is exactly their agenda. "Do as I say not as I do; more for me and less for you" If they do not have facts to support their positions they just make them up. If History tells us otherwise they either ignore it or try and re-write it. If the Laws work against them they ignore them and claim they do not have to follow them but the rest of America does. If they do not like how a segment of our population votes they disenfranchise them from voting.
This party is totally lost right now. They forgot where they put their moral and ethical compass. They are so full of themselves that just about end justifies their means, regardless of who gets hurt or dies along the way.
The new GOP/TP stands for basically everything that is not American.
jollyoldsoul. What, you don't like the compliment for Senator McCain? I like and respect the real McCain and I meant what I said.
BTW, jolly, if democrats did and said what some of these republicans have, they'd make my weekly wrap, too--in fact, in the past they have. I'm an equal opportunity weekly "rapper".
Jody - great analysis of the week, especially the coverage of the Exxon-Mobil chairman who stated that if the tax subsidies are taken away, he would basically 'take his company' elsewhere.
I dare him to try it.
These are empty threats. I laughed when I read that!!
I would love to see them try moving their company to the Caymans, leaving a vacuum here in America that some other oil company will fill. America provides too much money for Exxon-Mobile to go anywhere and they know it.
Sheesh.
Anyway, Jody, great job - as usual - giving us a recap of the week!!
Jody -
Thanks for another great "wrap". I can confirm that next Saturday is Judgement Day, as there's been a big billboard on I-95 warning us about it for months. I just went looking for more detail on the big event and found:
"Still, according to Rapture doctrine, most people will barely notice that Judgment Day has gone by. That's because May 21 is, according to Camping, the day when only the righteous will be saved and taken to heaven. Everyone else, on the other hand, will have to remain on Earth for a period of torment. The real fire and brimstone show, Camping further predicts, will get under way in October."
Well, according to that, I guess I, for one, can plan on still being around to catch the GOP debates in October. I thought the "period of torment" had already been going on for months, but I think this is a sign that Trump and Palin and Bachmann are still planning to make it official!
So Jolly, I take it you will be presenting your own version of the weekly events? From an ahem, independent perspective?
Good wrap up Jody.
I believe those people who consider marriage to be between only a man and a woman would argue this amendment is "ensuring their rights." Personally I would vote against the gay marriage ban but the fact that the people of MN will vote on the issue seems to be democracy in action.
Jim Crow and miscegenation laws were the will of the majority in their time as well. Sorry, but your "rights" don't include taking rights away from others...that's why some things are better dealt with in the courts instead of the voting booth.
As Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. once said, "your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins"
John B- Well stated, you have swayed me to your position.
Regarding Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr... I will agree with most but it you start sticking your nose where it doesn't belong, you should not be surprised when you do get hit.
Tiredallday, I'm a huge believer in democracy, in fact I'm very concerned about things which interfere with the will of the people. Unfortunately nothing is simple about civilization, the need for trade off and balance is everywhere. One of the things that is always in tension is the concept of majority rule vs the potential for tyranny of the majority.
That's OK, as Americans we've been balancing these sorts of things for a long time. As long as we continue to take the stewardship of our nation seriously things will go right more often than they'll go wrong. And yes, periodically we'll make the wrong decision...we just have mechanisms for getting us to making it right as we go along.
Great job Jody, you nail it all so well.
Thank you, Flip-flopping Mitt for Romney Care. Also, President Obama thanks you. No matter how you spin it, you own it.
I learned that the biggest difference between Romneycare and Obamacare is that under Obamacare you can't get an abortion.
Touche' - Best post of the day.
I also learned this week, not sure if it was posted here, that a group of GOP congressman plan on introducing a Constitutional Amendment that would allow states by a 2/3 vote of their legislature to opt out of any federal law they did not like. Guessing the Constitution included. So if passed, we can roll back progress in this country to 1776.
First they take away one right, then the next and pretty soon this is a fascist confederation run by one lord and master.
This is the right wing of the GOP and we do need to be scared.
Ira you are correct.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/the-gops-new-constitutional-amendment-give-states-veto-power-over-federal-laws.php?ref=fpa
I put this up on another post.
Navy..
This is one of the scariest things that I have ever heard proposed by any Congressman...though I'm sure there were worse. Let's circumvent the Constitution and destroy the Union. It almost smacks of treason.
Good one, Ira Lapin. That tidbit has probably escaped many.
I'd missed that one as well, Ira. The consistency with which Conservatives don't mind destroying our system of government if it suits their wealthy benefactors is frightening.
I would love to see a post from JAS1 and Joe in Albany just seconds behind each other.
Well, Frank- when you do, see if you can arrange the same phenomenon for one Spanky and '3 Wolves', would you?
Thanks for the giggle guys! ;o)))
Anyone else notice bag boy & dangerfield disappeared about the same time Earnest Lee Saddened showed up? LMAO
Laura speaks... well I declare...meanwhile our FLOTUS had better not invite a poet to the damn White House that isn't considered tea bag certified...
I found this bit of news to be courageous (for lack of a better word) to say the least. I guess Laura Bush thinks that her husband did such a wonderful job that they are in the position to make recommendations.
I want Daniels to enter the race because it would be easy to tie him to Bush. It is MY personal opinion that since Laura Bush and Jeb (GWB hiding under Laura's skirt) aren't tarnished it's easier for them to speak for GWB.
This would be great! Then I can reopen the push for iinvestigations into the the crash of the minority housing market (CRA) and how they were targeted beginning with Poppy Bush and his role along with all of the Bush Family bread crumb trails...
Bring him on!!!
Have a great weekend everyone!!
Looks like Next to the Last has his undies in a bunch. Is it acceptable that media only "spread the propaganda" of the "right"? I think not but apparently Next bought the right's propaganda hook, line and sinker--his/her comment is filled with it.
Entitlements means we pay into medicare and social security and are "entitled" to receive the returns of our investment in it! We pay into medicare through our employer, when we are elgible for it, we pay a premium which is deducted from our social security check. Social security is a guaranteed pension savings plan just as is a 401K except a 401K is subject to the whims of Wall Street--they'd just love to get their hands on social security dollars and risk it all.
Excellent post, Anita. There's a lot of bread crumb trails to follow just as you stated.
Next to the last: whoa, bud, get out of the basement and go get some air. That tin foil hat needs loosening.
Hi Anita!
This is clearly the best line of the day and oh so true! :o)
Hi Nash!!
Thanks but you and the rest of the gang are even better! ;0
Muddled... I think that says it all... THE REPUBLICAN PARTY MUDDLING in the future of America by catering to the coporations that line their pockets... NO THANKs MICKY BOY!!! NEXT!
Next to Last. GE no longer owns NBC, MSNBC, CNBC--Comcast (right leaning) bought the majority shares in it several months ago; GE is now just a shareholder.
FR: "Would it have been better for Romney to have apologized for his Massachusetts law (what the Wall Street Journal editorial page wanted him to do), or stick to his guns?"
If he could put politics aside for a minute (yeah, yeah - I know.....), I would think it would come down to whether or not he has anything to apologize FOR. If he truly believes the law has turned out to be a success, he should defend it proudly. If he thinks it's turned into a complete failure, he should apologize for it and try to convince us he's learned his lesson. And if it's somewhere in between, he could claim credit for the parts that are working and claim he has better know-how than anyone else about how to improve the parts that aren't. One way or the other, I wish I knew what he honestly thinks. I would think that anyone who keeps side-stepping in flip-flops is eventually going to trip up and fall flat on his face.
"The first video: “n the teaser, a group of kids take a time travel machine to the recession-troubled 1970s, where they're confronted by a knife-wielding thug wearing a ‘disco’ shirt. They then learn how Ronald Reagan ‘swiftly changed the course of the nation.’ In another clip, a woman at a campaign rally exclaims the Reagan ‘believes we can do anything! We just need to get the government out of the way.’” Explain to us how this isn’t propaganda"
Okay, I'll take a shot - the dictionary defines propaganda as "material distributed to win people over to a particular doctrine". His target audience - kids who watch animated videos - not only aren't old enough to vote, they're young enough that to them Ronald Reagan is about as relevant as Calvin Coolidge or Herbert Hoover - they're all pretty alliterative, but otherwise indistinguishable to your average 8 or 10 year old. And by the time they ARE old enough to vote, Mike Huckabee will be just as foggy a part of their distant past. So, "propaganda"? I'd say more like same old, same old Huckabee Huckstering. I guess he's sold all the books he can; maybe he can cut an album next? Can "Dancing With the Stars" be far behind?
But you're right, he's not running. Unlike Paul and Gingrich, I think he's smart enough to know that even if he doubles his current support, that still leaves about 90% of your own party who'd rather vote for someone else. Don't run, Mike - stick with what you're good at. Huckstering.
Hmmm...many years ago, fresh out of school, I applied for a lobbyist job with the NRA. As a gun owner, I believed in the "basic right" to gun ownership, but on the other hand, interpreted the second amendment clause on a "well regulated militia" as giving States the right to regulate such ownership. So, when the interviewer asked my opinion on gun ownership, I expressed the "States Rights" argument.
That was insuffient for the NRA and I didn't get the job.
Romney has taken a similar position. Seems to me to be saying that while I believe in universal health care and a mandatory insurance requirement, in Massachusetts, in order to get the job, I would be content in letting all of those red state fanatics, whose votes I need, go their own way...and consider it a States Right issue.
I doubt he'll get the job either.
Stone 6
You are just too reasonable.
Hmmm...as, I suspect, is Romney. Much too much the "centrist," to get the nomination from the present GOP base, largely taken over - curiously - by either southern Christian fundamentalists or western libertarians...who will probably destroy the Party's chances for a general election victory, and themselves, in a bloody Convention fight over the Party platform. While there are individual exceptions, the old northeastern "moderate Republican," such as Collins or Snowe is pretty much gone...or living on "borrowed time." They may be back, after a few more lost elections.
Expect Big Republican donors to focus, not on the Presidency, but on State and local races wherein the election issues can be tailored to each of the different groups of the Party's base, without inflaming either, in an effort to gain complete control of Congress.
Terrific post, JoAnne PA. Romney should be proud of RomneyCare and he should be telling republicans why health care reform was necessary and how it will benefit them. Instead, he allowed the negativity and fear the GOP spread, the lies about death panels, killing grandma, government take over to reduce him to pandering. He would be surprised if he spoke the truth about how important and beneficial RomneyCare and the Affordable Health Act are--voters prefer truth and honesty to flip flopping and deception.
Fine post, stone6, too!
stone6 -
Enjoyed your comments about your NRA experience, and you're also right on target about how what passes for a "moderate" Republican today is going to have a hard time winning the nomination, but any one of the more extreme right candidates will have an even harder time winning the general election.
You'd think the GOP would have learned something from one of their own darlings of just a few months ago - Christine O'Donnell. What got lost in all of the goofy "witch" stuff last fall was that if Delaware had gone with the more moderate Republican - Mike Castle - in the primaries, it would have been one of their easiest victories in the general election. Castle was an institution in Delaware and would have mopped the floor with Democrat Chris (who???) Coons. But no - they went with O'Donnell, who, like the song in "Evita", "didn't say much but she said it loud" - and in the end it was a cakewalk for Coons.
Well, like they say, those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Works for me.
Has anyone thought of anything that Speaker Boehner has EVER done for America yet?
How does he earn the money he makes? What is his "signature" accomplishment?
No Joe? Alan? JoannaSmith? Anybody?
What exactly is it that we are paying him to do?
Well maybe to make your life miserable, wait you already do that on your own, by whining and spitting out crap ad nauseum !
jollyoldsoul1 can't defend the indefensible empty suit that is John Boehner, so naturally he goes on the attack. Even Joe Scarborough called Boehner the "laziest" man in Congress.
Dear jolly:
I voted for your post . . . it was so spectacularly ridiculous . . . and illustrated my point beautifully . . . John Boehner works for the corporate people . . . not us.
He hasn't done a damn thing since he has been in Congress . . . a perfect Republican "leader".
Do you EVER have anything to add to a conversation? Other than you're paltry attempt at 'wit'?
Jollyoldsoul my a@@!
You're a miserable old man who apparently, get's his 'jollies' trolling around the internet attacking strong intelligent women!
Nash:
He and Cantor are trying to get the F-35 spare engine (700 Billion Diollars) put back on the books. Why, well first the DOD does not want the apsre engine at all, but the companies that make this second engine are in Boehner and Cantor's districts
Here you go, Nash-
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/gop-pledge-o-meter/
So, the score is, 5 promises kept, 1 compromise, 2 stalled,(passed the House, stuck in the Senate), 8 in the works, and 41 not yet rated.
Since January.
What ever happened to those 600,000 stimulus spurred jobs that were due to materialize in the summer of 2009? As I recall, they kind of never happened.
And, despite what Obama says, his weak dollar policy has NOT doubled exports. Not nearly.
Then again, NONE of his economic policies have done anything but make things worse.
He has two things- repeal of DADT, and killing bin Laden.
Kind of like a broken clock.
Nashville fan--- Apparently we're paying him to represent the richest Americans and ignore everyone else. He makes me want to cry! What a jerk!
no joe:
So you can't think of a damn thing John Boehner has done either?
Well that makes it official . . . because you will make something up if you have to . . . clearly "Speaker" Boehner is a complete nitwit on the government teat just like the rest of the Republican Party . . . all while telling the rest of us that we don't need the government to use OUR tax dollar to help US.
P.S. Your little "subject change" strategy . . . epic fail.
Go, Nashville!
Let's see, our President signed into law the Affordable Care Act, Financial Regulatory reform, equal pay for equal work for women, START treaty, repeal of DADT, saving the American auto industry, saving the economy from the disaster Bush & the GOP left, helping to save Wall Street, new regulations for food safety, killing Osama bin Laden and those are just a few.
What has Boehner done? Repealed the Affordable Care Act without replacing it as promised, passed many anti-women's reproductive rights bills, and oh yeah--passed the Paul Ryan 2012 Budget to kill medicare! Where are the jobs bills Boehner?
FR:
I think it's clear that he's already decided to get into the race. That's the reason why he pandered to the far right base by approving the defunding Planned Parenthood in Indiana. At the same time, he's trying to deceive independents into believing that he'll be concerned about economic issues if elected and declare a "truce" on social issues. The truce is going to be over as soon as he's sworn in as president, if that revolting situation comes to pass.
Remember the '07 - '08 campaign ...
Remember what they did, remember who did it.
nader paul kucinich gravel mckinney baldwin ventura sheehan
This time an entire citizen army of every stripe stands beside Dr Ron.
" The weakest part of the speech was his insistence that a state-based mandate is different from a federal-based one. It’s STILL a mandate. Moreover, how is a mandate a good thing in one state, while a “power grab” if extended federally? Can the U.S. really drive down its health-care costs if one state insures everyone and another doesn't, forcing taxpayers and emergency rooms to pick up the tab in one state or more?"
I am no fan of Mr. Romney but, in his defense, you missed his point. Mandated coverage was and is what a plurality of Massachusetts citizens wanted and so we have it. Does that mean people in Texas should have the same program if they do not want it? Mitt's point is no. Texas is very different from Massachusetts and so it might not work for Texans as it does for Massachusetts citizens. As for controlling costs, it is Mitt's thinking that other states will copy like states that developed models that created savings and therefore, savings will occur nationally. With the Federal Government running one program for all, we will never know if there other models that might produce savings greater than the most optimistic predictions that are now projected for the plan passed a year ago.
Lee, I take your point, but as they say, "that dog won't hunt". Point is, he's arguing what's good for Massachusetts isn't good for anyone else (and years ago in defending it, he routinely and repeatedly said the nation would be good to copy it nationally.)
Anytime you have to resort to denials of your position, you've lost, as in:
"I am not a crook", "I am not a witch", "This isn't Obama Care."
The problem with Romneycare is that it is raising everyone's premiums, just like Obamacare will. No wonder Scott Brown won the election in Massachusetts.
Romney has already been rejected by the Tea Party. Will a real conservative step up to the plate, please?!!
Nashville, please read below..........
Aside from sending in Seal-Team-Six to kill Bin Laden, what's Obama done, Nashville?......
We're STILL in a recession, we're STILL involved in two wars,
gasoline is almost $5.00 a gallon in some areas,
at least a portion of his healthcare bill was ajuducated to be UNconstitutional by a federal judge,
the banks and lending institutions took federal bailout money that Obama gave them (MY tax dollars and yours) and paid it to their executives as part of their bonus packages,
......and we still have 9% UNemployment
So tell us Nashville.......just what exactly HAS Obama done (aside from the Bin Laden thing).......?
Dearest J. Merle:
If you can't figure it out for yourself, you are beyond explanation. Keep telling yourself whatever you have to . . . sometimes admitting you were wrong takes time.
Nash has nothing, j. Merle. Just spin.
Unemployment down? Nope. But, inflation is stable, right? Wrong. He cut the debt, right? Um, no. He increased it by 4 trillion dollars- with no end in sight.
He makes them feel good. That's it. All they have.
It's simply not enough for the rest of us, however.
Nashville fan---- Is it even worth responding to some of these knuckleheads who can't even get basic facts straight? Can they remember who was the last President? Think he had anything to do with our present situation?
Technically, we're out of recession. The economy has been growing, albeit at a low and slow rate, since June 2009. Growth or lack thereof is how economists define a "recession."
That low growth has been insufficient to bring back many jobs, primarily because of "structural economic problems," which will require a lot longer to resolve. Persistent unemployment impacts, primarily, low-skilled work for those with little education. Unemployment among those without high school diplomas is running 35%. This is not to say there are not exceptions, but this is the general trend and primary problem, with the answer lying in education, the renewel of a manufacturing base through increased exports, and the return of consumer demand.
Obama can do little regarding the price of gasoline. Some weeks ago, Bloomberg Press reported that gasoline reserves were at a 20 year high. Much of the current price is due to "speculation" in futures contracts, inspired by both investors and/or those corporations anticipating future increases in demand, based on a global economic recovery.
Federal judges have ruled BOTH ways on the Affordable Health Care law. Ultimately, after the challenges work their way through the lower courts, the U.S. Supreme Court will make the decision on whether or not the law (or parts therein) are unconstitutional. THAT decision lies ahead.
The vast majority of TARP money was in the form of loans and has been returned with interest. Economists now say that the total bill, in regard to bailing out the financial services industry, will be less than the savings and loan crisis. The bailouts began under Bush and the Obama Administration continued them, based on the direction of Congress, with a few modifications that have probably increased the chances of recoverying tax payer money.
No joe, nobo, nj..........Don't get me wrong, I actually want Obama to succeed because he IS our President.
But, all I keep on seeing in columns like this is how much of a failure everyone else is, and how much of a success Obama is.
Then I look at the outrageous increases in my healthcare premiums, my co-pays, and my deductables since Obama-Care passed (even though it won't take effect until next year), I look at gasoline prices, I look at near double digit unemployment, I look at the national debt which HE said he would control when he campaigned for the Presidency, I look at the situation with banks and credit cards who are charging interest rates that are approaching 1992 levels.......and I ask myself, just what HAS he done?
Better still, when I ask one of his ardent supporters, like Nashy-Nash, they/she can't answer me!
And I'll tell you something else too; the cuts in military spending that this guy is enacting are dangerous. He did a really nice job of getting Bin Laden. But, this is NOT the time to cut our defense budget.
.....and Tom, Yreka..........you really ought to take a good long look in the mirror. Because you got yourself a pretty bad case of cerebral rectumitis. In other words, you need to pull your head out of your "tookus."
Dear Next to the Last President:
I am sure that you are a great person, but your posts are making you seem like the Unibomber reading from his Manifesto.
Seek help.
I would agree that BOTH parties may decide that military spending is an easy target for cost cutting and overcut...thus, cutting off our noses to spite our faces.
stone6..........tell the nearly 10% of our population that's out of work, that the recession is "technically" over..........BULLPIPPY
..........and you're WRONG. The President of The United States CAN do something to lower the absolutely OUTRAGEOUS price of gasoline. In fact, there are NUMEROUS things he can do. One of them is to follow in Bill Clinton's footsteps and release the reserves for a short time. Clinton did it back in 99/2000, and it stabilized gas prices, if only for a while. But, it's better than doing NOTHING. That's just an example, it's not the ONLY thng he could do.Regulating the damned greedy-assed oil industry once again, and the institution of a windfall profits tax that cannot be passed back onto the consumer would also be a good start!
And as far as TARP is concerned, there is still another 76 BILLION dollars owed to the federal government. The point is, that it is NOT the government's job to bail corporations out when they mismanage their own cash. The money was supposed to be spent on keeping the doors open at these establishments so people could keep their jobs. Instead, a good porrtion of it went towards paying out bonuses and incentives for higher level executives, who themselves were largely responsible for the economic mess their companies were/are in.
By this time in Bill Clinton's Presidency, the recession was completely over and economic expansion was underway at a blistering pace. Obama's policies in this area have been to put it mildly..... ineffective.
Oh, and as for education; Obama took certain educational grants, and scholarships once offered to potential military officers through the ROTC program out of the budget. That's not to say they've been eliminated altogether. But, certain slots for specific branches of the service have been eliminated in the current budget.
As I have said......Obama has been an "ok" President. He gets that "grade" largely because of the Bin Laden thing. He hasn't been a superstar, like some people on this board make him out to be, and he hasn't been a "complete" failure either, as others try to paint him.
But when November of 2012 comes around, I (and most other independents like myself) will vote with my wallet.
Like someone once said back in 1992....."it's the economy, stupid."
..........and one more thing, Stone; I am unaware of an upper court's ruling/overuling of Judge Vinson's validiction that the healthcare bill over extends the authority of congress, in that it requires people to purchase health insurance. But, if you say there is one, I'll take you at your word.
However, I DO know that my premiums, my co-pays, and my deductibles went through the roof after that bill passed.
Some say there is no cause and effect because the bill doesn't kick in until next year.
However, the increases can be explained in the insurance companies desire to make up for the extended coverages that will now be mandated by law.
I'm in favor of nationalizing healthcare, but it should have been done under the original Clinton plan, which would have allowed one to either opt in or out of the government plan. THAT would have created competition between healthcare insurance providers, and would have driven health insurance premiums down. This particular plan that went through congress last year, does absolutely NOTHING for middle income earning Americans like myself.......BUT, we have to PAY for it.
Your answer speaks volumes Lil' Nashy-Nash.
Obama has done NOTHING, aside from the Bin Laden thing (for which I do give him all the credit in the world).
Happy recession, dear.
Lil' Nashy Nash?
lol
So you have a crush on me AND the President?
Naughty! ;o)
J. Merle Stanley-2759623
Before Barack Obama became President, if you had health insurance and got sick, it was legal for the insurance company to find some way to drop our coverage. Before Barack Obama became President you could be denied insurance if you had a pre-existing condition. Before Barack Obama became President, young adults would be dropped from their parent's coverage before they could find jobs that came with employe based insurance. The healthcare reform bill the President signed makes it possible for more people to get health insurance.
Just before Barack Obama became President, it looked like the American auto industry was about to collapse, taking related industries with it and putting thousands of employees out of work. Because of the auto company bail out, negotiated by Barack Obama, that didn't happen. Detroit sees auto sales in historic upswing. Baby, we're baaaaack.
Before Barack Obama was elected, we were stuck in Iraq, with no exit strategy (remember John McCain's postion: we could be there a hundred years.) Today most of our troops have been removed from Iraq.
Before Barack Obama became President, Kaddafy in Libya and Mubarak in Eygpt ran dictatorships with the tacit support of the U.S. government. Today, Eygpt is developing a democracy and Kaddafy is on his way out. Change has come to the middleeast, and most importantly for us, the world understands America is on the side of the activists and not the dictatorships.
I could go on....but you have probably stopped reading by now because you just don't want to see the difference a Democratic President has made for America.
To Amy B., Portland ME....."...I could go on....but you have probably stopped reading by now because you just don't want to see the difference a Democratic President has made for America. ..."
Nope. Read your whole post, hun.
And now it's time for you to be fact-checked;
a) I don't know who told you that insurance companies could legally cuttoff your coverage at will, and without just cause, before Barrack Obama. But, that is a complete LIE. Furthermore, pre-existing conditions did not necessarily cause one to be denied coverage. But, rather the pre-exisiting condition was covered at a reduced benefit-rate...and why shouldn't it be? Why should an insurance company, which is in business to make money, have to automatically LOSE money with a new customer? I understand, healthcare is healthcare. But, business is business, and when it becomes too expensive for an insurance provider to operate, we will ALL end up paying for it....and the next insurance company will be made to pick up the tab for that pre-existing condition. Right now, the people who are paying for that kind of extended coverage, as well as the coverage which will be provided to those over the age of 18, are middle income working people like myself who's premiums, copays, and deductables were severly upped when the bill passed. (In anticipation of insurance companies paying out these additional coverages when the bill takes hold)
b) And it wasn't "the auto industry" that was going to collapse, it was freakin' GM, who got themselves into a bind with a) substandard automobiles, b) economic mismanagement, and c) ALL OUT GREED. There were other solvent auto makers here in the US, both domestic and foreign who could have / would have taken over GM's share of the market. Let me ask you this.....if me and my family mismanage our cash, will Obama bail US out? If not, why shouldn't he....he did it for GM?
c) I don't know where you get your information from, but I have a NEWSFLASH for you; WE'RE STILL IN IRAQ, and WE'RE STILL IN AFGAHNISTAN. Door to door operatins may have ceased in Iraq, but we are STILL there.
d) Kadaffy is largley a figurehead in Libya, and Mubarak was an ally to the western world. It was the people of both countries that rose up against the established governments, Obama had NOTHING to do with it. Oh, and did you see what those nice "democracy-loving" Egyptians did to US journalists, particularly the female rerporters, in the streets of Cairo?......Does your Barrack Obama get "credit" for THAT too? I'll bet it didn't even occur to you that the people in both of those countries probably saw the fight for Democracy in.......IRAQ and AFGAHNISTAN.....and decided they would like to try it too. I'll bet that thought never entered your mind, because YOU credit Obama for EVERYTHING, and blame his political opposition for ANYTHING that fails. You never recognize, accept, or acknowledge the truth when Obama is wrong.
I could get that same sh** from republicans. It is the reason I resigned my affiliation with the Demcoarftic party after 32 years. Because, frankly, you and people like you are doing/saying the same things they did when they were in power. You're just doing it from the opposite side of the political spectrum.
So, no, no Amy....I read your whole post, even though it is rife with the same kind of partisan lies and rhetoric about YOUR political idol that CANTservatives told about THEIR political idol when they were in power.
The fact is, that Obama has been an "ok" President. He hasn't been "bad", but he hasn't been "that good" either.
ooops.......that's "Democratic party". Not "Demoarttic" party.
Typo, sorry.
J. Merle Stanley-2759623
I appreciate your reading my entire post and taking the time to respond. You have been posting on First Read for several years and I appreciate your point of view.
Some points: The practice of dropping sick people from insurance rolls has an actual name, it's called rescission. Here is an artcle that described the problem in 2009:
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/17/business/fi-rescind17
Insurance premiums were rising before HCR passed, HCR did not cause them to rise.
The President has said any state that has it's own plan for increasing coverage can opt out of HCR. Vermont is going for the public option. Maine is experimenting with it's own reform. None of this was happening under George Bush and the Republicans (except in Massachuttes). It took a Democratic President to get legislators to address the huge mess that is our healthcare system. I supported Hillary Clinton's efforts on this front when her husband was President.
I know President Obama isn't some kind of messiah sent from heaven. I do think he is an effective President. He has championed Democratic causes and employed highly qualified Democrats (and Republicans) in his administration, including Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, and Secretary of Defense Gates, among many, many others, who have done an outstanding job. The country is in a better place for having Democrats at the helm, there is no doubt.
The cocky confidence displayed by the liberals is a cover for the real fear they have deep inside that their man can easily be their biggest disappointment since Jimmy Carter who was also an America apologist, green energy advocate and incompetent leader. Romney was the favorite in 2008 for right winger Ann Coulter. Now, the left is embracing his candidacy like they did with McCain. I see the parallel. My neighbors who are far lefties were pulling for McCain because he was the man they wanted just in case Hillary or Obama would lose. Romney is suspect RINO. That's why the left likes him. But be careful what you wish for. Romney's experience as governor and successful businessman will make Obama look really bad especially if the economy continues to suck going into 2012. Romney will walk all over Obama. The left's best bet is to hope for right winger like Paul or Palin to run against Obama. But that is a big risk. Reagan wasn't supposed to beat Carter in 1980, but he did, and ushered in a decade long era of conservatism. So the left has two choices, risk defeat with Romney or take a chance on a long conservative era and more conservative justices than the current 5-4.
The biggest disappoint in History was Bush: But then again you knew that you just will not take the blinders off and look around at all the carnage that the Bush Administration left in its wake. President Obama is going to go doen in History as the man that saved us from the greatest recession since the great depression and a bevy of other land mark programs.
True, Bush was a big disappointment. That's why I did not vote for him and why he had a 22% approval rating. Obama was supposed to be hope and change. What change? He is doing everything Bush did. Still in Iraq. Still in Afghanistan. Still have Gitmo. Renewed Patriot Act. Extended bush tax cuts. Bombed Libya. Exploding deficits. Unempolyment continues to rise. Inflation kicking in. But Obama is the president now, has been for three years. After two losing seasons, it's time to stop blaming the losses on the last coach.
BTW, Bush was not the left's biggest disappointment. You can only be disappointed if you had high expectations for him like they did with Carter.
True...but I wouldn't count on many Democratic votes for Romney. Both Romney and McCain were more "centrist" than other Republican candidates, so of the Republican field, Democrats feel their policies are "closest," not identical, to their own.
I see no manipulation or conspricacy, when Democrats say the best shot Republicans have in capturing the Independent vote is with Romney, rather than a candidate further to the right, such as Paul or Palin; it is what they genuinely believe.
Come May 2012, if the price of gas is still $4 or worst at $5, unemployment is still over 8%, we add another $1.5 trillion to the debt, we are still in Iraq and Afghanistan and foreclosures continues to rise, do you think the voters will care if the GOP candidate is moderate or not?
Yes. Because, this "recession" is becoming increasingly "isolated" to a certain segment of the population...which however unfortunate for them, impacts the majority less and less. Europeans, who granted have different life styles than our own, have had high gasoline prices for decades...they adjusted, without returning to "radical politicians." I expect unemployment to be a bit under 8% by election time, but unless Obama begins hiring more government employees, there is only so much he - or government - can do about "structural unemployment." I suspect over two terms we could get to 6%, which may become the new "norm" for a generation. Most of this problem is due to the failures of BOTH parties to confront the impact of globalization and technology on the American work force...which I expect WILL be talked more and more about in the run-up to the 2012 election.
A $1.5 trillion increase in debt? Depends on two things: the dollar not collapsing and the willingness of people to continue buying our Treasury bonds. The national debt is a "relative burden," not some "absolute." Although Japan's economy has been terrible, it hasn't collapsed, and they carry twice the debt we do, in terms of its ratio to GDP. [That's not to say, I personally, do not believe it is a serious factor. But, it is more important to arrive at a bi-partisan plan to resolve it, rather than the necessity to resolve it within a specified length of time.]
Afghanistan and Iraq...I assume we'll continue on our own withdrawal schedule. If not, other events would have to transpire to change that schedule, and that would have to be "sold" to the American people.
But, then, I don't seem to be as "afraid" for the country's future, as you do...and am comfortably retired, with my children in good paying, secure jobs...instead of being a "job seeker." Different perspectives.
No way to grow an economy. Government jobs is like a black hole. It just sucks up more taxpayer dollars and produces nothing to contribute to the GNP.
We are not Europeans, and no, the voters won't stand for $9 gas.
Another Conservative fairytale, JobSeeker. The Interstate Highway System was pivotal in our economic development. So were government-subsidized airports, railroads, and before that canals that were built with government money. The space program was an enormous publicly-subsidized technology incubator. Public education provided the educated workforce needed to lead the world economically. Some services, such as tsunami and earthquake warnings, are valuable in spite of having virtually no chance of being provided by private enterprise. Police and Fire protection are basics of civilized life.
Your story of government jobs being a black hole is one black hole of an empty Conservative narrative.
The biggest disappoint in History was Bush: But then again you knew that you just will not take the blinders off and look around at all the carnage that the Bush Administration left in its wake. President Obama is going to go doen in History as the man that saved us from the greatest recession since the great depression and a bevy of other land mark programs.
Ron - Noted that you made no mention of the worst kept secret in Indiana.
Just a question between hoosiers.....
Do you really think that he would try to run to become the candidate for the party that touts "Family Values"?
Ron Paul is our last hope for preserving U.S. sovereignty. If this nation is to survive we must be protected against the influence of those who use the FED (a PRIVATE banking cartel governed by the shills of Rockefeller, the Illuminati and Bilderbergers) to control our economy and prevent a truly free market place.
These people grow rich by starting wars (one of Dr. Paul's non-interventionist causes is to prevent our involvement in such conflicts.) As for the FED - learn how it was foisted upon us by the bankers: See G. Edward Griffin's "The Creature From Jekyll Island".
AG0oZkD&q=g+edward+griffin&hl=en
Hmmm...I hear that argument a lot. In a global economy composed of central banks, what would you replace ours with and why?
Well if Ron Paul is YOUR last hope, you're toast since he has no chance of winning a single primary in a single state, anymore than he did the last two times he ran. Now why would that be? Could it have anything to do with the fact your hero's version of a dark global conspiracy foisted on ignorant Americans is a laughable crock?
Absolutely the case. The Ron Paul version of Conservatism which has so much pull within the Republican Party right now is a work of fiction based on the fantasy world of Ayn Rand. When you point out the failures of this radical Conservatism the common reaction is "it hasn't been tried yet." If that's the case in spite of 6 years in which Republicans had the White House, Congress, and a majority on the Supreme Court then it's all the proof you need that Conservatism of such purity doesn't exist--and can't, outside the world of fiction. It also puts the lie to the claim that Conservatives are trying to "take their country back." If "it hasn't been tried yet" then what they're really proposing is a dangerous, radical experiment with the government of the greatest nation on Earth.