That depends upon who you are, and who you were when you did something that you would now like to never again be discussed by the MSM.

Not if your the rabbit and the FOX is right on your tail.

Run Romney Run. See Romney Run into the GOP/TP wall.

SLAM. Poor Romney. He was just giving MASS a healthy future one constituent at a time.

Nevermind...Gov't healthcare BAD.

Mittens has already got a HUGE problem with the tea baggers!

I heard some broad on MSNBC earlier today, (don't remember her name NOR do I care) ranting about how there is ZERO chance of Mittsy getting their support!

He hasn't even officially delared and the house of cards comes crumbling down! lol

BTW: Good to see you Gingerbread Mamma! ;o)

How far can Romney bend the truth?

(Jedi Mind Trick) This isn't the health care plan you're looking for, move along................

Mitt, you are so screwed! The Tea Party/Repubs don't like you! And Pres. Obama's plan allows states to formulate their own plan's with the Feds. help. Backpeddaling is a very unattractive practice and seldom works. Smile...........................

RomneyCare is not any different than ObamaCare. I live in Mass and I'm required to have health insurance. I don't complain because I do not have to worry about preexisting conditions (like pregnancy!).

Only 43% of Americans have health insurnce through their employer - the rest either pay for it 100% or don't have it. That is a sad statistic.

Have all the states come up with their own health care plan? That is the plan? Are you nuts? Not all states are created equal, but all their residence pay federal taxes...so the federal government should deliver programs or services to all states. Please teabaggers, enough with the we are broke bs, we pay taxes and we expect the government to delivery services (btw military is a service provided by the socialist government) to us for our money. I am still for spending cuts and raising of taxes on every one, but I think healthcare has gotten out of hand for regular folks...not just old folks and the destitute, need something as well. If the GOP really gives a rats ass about preventative health, they would not have demonized Mit's Mass plan. Mit is going against who he is to get the GOP nod. Mit they didn't give it to you when they should have, so why are they going to give it to you now? You are not dumb enough Mit or crazy enough for the teabaggers. Go back to business and leave these bigots to fend for themselves. They don't like you Mit, because of your religion, but yet still you plead for their acceptance. Man up and stand for your religion and the good work you did with so call RomneyCare. Having a conscience is not a bad thing, but hiding it to further your own goals is just disingenuous.

Hi Feisty, I am late to the dance today, I saw that broad you mention, she is a TP activist, isn't that special. These guys in the TP want nothing to do with him, I'd be willing to bet, the GOP are going to have a heck of time getting themselves anyway viable for 2012.

Honey I did not cheat on you like our next door neighbor! He took his secretary to a cheap motel! I took mine to a Four Seasons and it was only once, not five time like he did!

Reminds me of Clinton - I am going to say this one more time (remember the finger shaking at you on that TV screen) I did not have SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH THAT WOMAN . . .

Remember how you can tell a Politician is lying . . .

I wish people could understand why there is such a big difference between a state run plan and a federally run plan. The difference is enormous. This is going to sound like I'm just a Cheerleader for Romney but I'm not. What I am is someone who actually understands our constitution and the way government is supposed to work. Romney has it exactly right. The man has done his homework. The reality is, he is too smart for most people to understand. The American people seem to be actually demanding politicians they can relate to. Translation, they want a politician that is NOT smarter than they are. It's a sad time when you realize that if the likes of Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and even George Washington were running for office today, they would never get elected because they have too much integrity and are far to educated for the common man to "relate" to.

Conservative mantra:

"Don't ever do that. I mean, I know *I* did that, but it was OK when I did it, because I know what I was doing."

Rhino - that's right - you just go on believe that and see if you can convince anyone else.

Romney is correct - if states want to do single payer or mandated health insurance by all means. What is disapointing is that he did not say something to the effect of "I think any government run healthcare is a mistake because there is no way to stop future politicians from altering the plan into something that will bankrupt the state or the individuals." Even if he does this he shows himself still open to inappropriate compromises.

I would have voted for him in 2008, but even then he was not my first choice. For 2012, he is not may choice, but like McCain a lesser of two evils.

Rhino40,

Great paragraph. You are right on the money!!!!!!!! The average citizen won't walk across the room to become informed about anything, preferring to be spoon fed by who ever is their favorite talking head and they believe everything they read on the internet. There is so much obvious corrupt bs going on in this country that people could learn about if they would only do a little bit of homework. One of the main reasons that Washington is what it is, is the fact that most of the population ignores what is going on, or they form opinions that are not based on fact. Check out everything you hear on TV or radio before you decide whether it is true or not. Use snopes.com and other fact checking websites. It's not that much work. Washington, DC assumes that they can get away with what they do because the average voter is too dumb to catch them! Sadly, the legislators are right the great majority of the time.

But ...but your still the Minority. And this Independent and ALL of my Independent friends are still leaning Right! Sorry to have to tell you that! And Feisty you have have stepped one notch lower with the "Broad" comment. Its bad when a man has more respect for women than a liberal female does. My mother would have washed my mouth out with soap if I called a woman "Broad"! Ive met Mitt he seems like a nice man, as far as politicians go. Oh and good news our former Democratic Mayor (Detroit) has petitioned for parole in July! Yea lol!

Bayllie - although no preconditions is a good intentions thing - it is currently one of the bigger sores in Massachusetts Care. Seems Americans aren't stupid - they don't buy insurance - pay the fines, and when the decide they need treatment buy insurance. As soon as their treatments for which they bought insurance are done, they abandon the policy. The insurance companies are incurring huge losses because the treatments far exceed what premiums are collected.

Hopefully form Massachusettes, the situation is on the road to being fixed.

Our govt is broke, lets take more money and put it to healthcare... that should fix it...yea yea.

Hey DB,

If universal health care is so bad, then why is the US 37th in the world and more expensive.

Universal health care is cheaper and better, otherwise all those countries in front of us would be bankrupt.

Mitty is a Democrat in denial.

Rhino- Was waiting for an intelligible example, and just got a Republican rant about how you and Mitt are smart and all the "common" people are stupid. sounds like typ Republican elitism.

I would just like to say that the more Mitt tries to draw hairline differences between his plan and the Fed plan, the more it's going to sound the same because his biggest challenge is that no matter how well he speaks, or how pre-packaged he looks, he just in not a great communicator. He doesn't have a message. No theme to latch onto, plus his base hates him! He's only going to get into the race because he thinks he's better than everyone else who's in. Which is the same problem Rhino has...

My mother would have washed my mouth out with soap if I called a woman "Broad"!

For someone who is on their fourth wife - something tells me you've called them much worse!

It's just a hunch...

So, save you're self righteous indignation for someone who might believe it!

Romney should stop defending it and simply come right out and apologize for this disaster. One needs to look no further than the how Romneycare has strained the state treasury as a preview for Obamacare and what it will do to this country's financies.

If anything, Romney could make the best case for the repeal of Obamacare because, afterall, hindsight IS 20/20. He just needs to man up and admit this was a failure.

Hey now Im on good footing with each one. Hell I bought them each a home and two of them cars. Im a good man and even during the divorces I treated them well. I respect women, Have I ever called you anything vile or despicable? I hardly think so! Just because something doesnt work out does not mean you have to treat people badly! My current wife is chuckling at your comment!

And chalk another one up for the witty redhead @ 1.21!

Funny retort. Ha ha ha ha

Just as predicted - attack the unpopular parts of HCR but not trashing the entire thing. Add a little Libertarian seasoning to mollify the dimmer of the wits. Mitt is going moderate!!!

Now the fun part is to watch the donor list. I think the donors are looking for moderate candidates so Mitt's campaign chest should grow. If that happens Newtie gets a name change to 'No More' Gingrich! Tim Paw-who? drops out quickly. Ron Paul continues to provide comic relief. It's going to be an interesting variety show!

Universal health care is cheaper and better, otherwise all those countries in front of us would be bankrupt.

Eric...the Canadians, with their universal healthcare, obviously do not agree with you. The traditionally liberal Canadians just jettisoned the liberal party in favor of a conservative supermajority. Again, like 2010, if this isnt a referendum on liberal policies gone too far, then I dont know what to tell you anymore.

James glad I could help you out with humor you could understand! Feisty has a sharp tongue but not that sharp a wit!

Eric - why is it that most everyone comes here for treatment.

Answer most government run HC systems dictate that the cheapest upfront methods be used. That eliminates most microsurgery - so New Foundlands Governor went to Florida for his bypass surgery. BTW - Micro surgery costs less than standard by-pass surgery, in recovery, less infections, less drugs. The issue is the cost to purchase the equipment and train staff.

There are hundreds of these stories where people needed surgery came to US for a shorter waiting period, maternity capacites, better proceedures.

You are buying the salesman's lines - while we are at it, could I sell you a set of Encylopedias?

Thank you, Mitt, for finally explaining the difference between the two. Let me sum up the Republican explanation of the two plans.

Health care from Obama (federal level) - *deep breath* "WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!!! THIS IS THE START OF SOCIALISM, FASCISM, NAZISM, MARXISM, HITLER-ISM, MUSLIM-ISM, SHARIA LAW, NORTH KOREA-ISM, TERRORISM, KENYAN, BIRTH CERTIFICATE, GAY PARADES, PIRATES, EARTHQUAKES, CHOCOLATE MILK BOX DRINKS, POPCORN DIPPED IN BROKEN GLASS, ARRRGGGGGHHHHHH. THIS IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL. THIS HEALTH CARE WILL TURN ALL YOUR CHILDREN GAY. THEN YOUR GAY CHILDREN WILL BE RAPED AND MURDERED, AND THEIR BODIES BURNED AT THE STAKE BY A RACE OF GENETICALLY ENHANCED WOMBATS. WE WILL ALL DIE TO A ZOMBIE INVASION, FOLLOWED BY ALIENS WHO WILL EAT OUR BRAINS. IT IS THE END OF TIMES . . . REPENT! REPENT I SAY! OBAMA-CARE WILL BE THE DEATH OF HUMANITY. ARRRRGGGGHHHHHH."

Exact same health care from Mitt (state level) - *clears throat* "This is a great solution. This heath care plan is completely different than the plan that will obviously bring about the end of the world. This plan is run by the state, that plan is run on the federal level. See, COMPLETELY different. In fact, you shouldn't even try to compare the two, that is how different they are . . . seriously, don't compare them. Don't even look at them. If I ask nicely will you promise not to compare them? Thanks. Vote for me. *wink*"

Whether the Healthcare system is a mandate or not, the citizens end up footing the ER bills from those who cannot pay insurance. People are being asked to pay something atleast so the Government subsidizes NOT ALL but a portion. I have worked in the ER and you should see how many people come in without coverage. Who pays later? You, me and the rest who pay for there insurance.

At Thoughts form Cli, what the hell is the Difference between Federal and Government? Total D.A.M.N--A.S.S.

You just explained nothing just like Romie the mormon. Who believes in Joseph Smith for real?

Goin,

Rhino is correct. Mitt Romney has some faults but stupidity isn't one of them. He has made his fortune through fixing companies that are failing. That might be a novel approach for our Federal Gov't. Look what he did for the State of Utah with the Olympics. Took something that was failing and made it a success in half the time allotted, and it was the most successful Olympics to date. They actually made lots of money. Some people are short sighted and do not understand how the Federal Gov't works, but like I said Rhino is correct in his assertion. Also look what he did with Massachusetts debt. In a short time, he practically paid it off. Then they get a new Governor and go right back in debt.

I don't know if Romney is the right man for President, but he sure is better than most. Maybe some folks need to brush up on how the Gov't works, because there are a lot of people that obviously don't understand that write into these comment boards.

He has made his fortune through fixing companies that are failing.

Ummm WRONG!

Mitsy made his money the old fashion way - he inherited IT from his Daddy!

Salamonini,

Wow, and I thought there was freedom of religion in this country. I know some Mormons, and I don't think much of their religion, it's not my thing. But, to place labels is wrong. I don't know what your religion is and don't care because that is your business. A sad state of affairs when we start judging someone because of their religion.

bayllie

RomneyCare is not any different than ObamaCare.

If I'm not mistaken, one difference is that RomneyCare pays for abortions...

snicker. Try backpedaling on that one, Mittski.

I do not understand why any middle class American would be against MEDICARE for ALL. Medicare is the most efficient government plan, that actually works! I retired last May after I turned 65. I was fearful at first but I have found Medicare has provided me better care, then the high priced insurance I was paying for, when I worked.

Mitt only started Medicare for all in his state, of Massachusetts. Instead of denying it, he started health care for all. I would ride that plan right into the White House. Mitt is so afraid of being labelled a liberal, where he would be considered progressive. Instead, he is playing toward the Tea bag crowd. How sad, the Republicans have allowed themselves to be held hostage by by a "few" who want no government at all.

I will stick with President Obama. He has proved his worth and he is a true leader. I like his intellect. That is a quality not one Republican has exhibited. Not ONE!

Salomenini, Thoughts from Cali was using sarcasm (very effectively) to point out Romney's hypocrisy. You should read the post again -- very funny! In agreement with the rest of your post.

Rhomney, instead of taking credit for the one good thing he did for his state, he is trying to backpeddle....Who does he think he is talking to? Oh no, Mitt, we aren't in Kansas anymore!

"Don't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain"

I would like very much to see Mitt Romney get elected as a bait-and-switch game president... Maybe in his second term he'll bring on the single payer... Mormons make me a little nervous, but you know what, except for the brown-people-are-brown-because-they-turned-away-from-god crap, they're sort of socially conscious...

(?)

Fiesty,

I would never expect you to say anything good about a Republican. Just goes to show how simple minded some people are. So sad.

My Mom was like you. She would vote the party line everytime, even if the one running was running while in jail. (She did that by the way, in Massachusetts no less)

Mitsy made his money the old fashion way - he inherited IT from his Daddy!

Just goes to show you don't know much about the people you slander. Why don't you try learning about the people you dislike. With knowledge, one rises above embarassment.

I would never expect you to say anything good about a Republican.

Here's a CLUE - when ONE of these tea baggers, says something that I would consider GOOD for this country - you can count me on board!

In the meantime, it's ALL about bringing down the black man in the WHITE house..

PS: Don't ASSume about party lines - you have NO idea who I am, and what I stand for! m'kay?

Feisty calling somebody else self righteous? Bwaaaaaahhaaaahaaaaaa!

JYinPA: I thought you would never ask. Romney care is better than Obama care if for no other reason than it is run at a State level. Now, why should that matter you may ask. Here is what a couple of our founding fathers had to say about such things:

"The way to have good and safe government is not to trust it all to one, but to divide it among the many... Let the national government be entrusted with the defense of the nation, and its foreign and federal relations; the State governments with the civil rights, laws, police, and administration of what concerns the state generally" (Bergh, Writings of Thomas Jefferson, 14:421)

James Madison, considered by many to be the father of our Constitution put it this way:

" The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former (federal powers) will be exercised principally on external objects as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce... The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State (Federalist Papers, No 45, pp. 292-93.)

This is the perspective that Mitt Romney has and most Americans don't. I am not trying to offend or insult anyones inteligence but it is a fact, most Americans have never read the writings of our founding fathers. Nor have they read the writings of the men who inspired them. Mitt Romney obviously has. In this respect you should all take comfort. As smart as he is, he obviously did not come up with all these ideas on his own. His has pulled from the greatest minds throughout history including Cicero (Greek Philosopher) Adam Smith (The Wealth of Nations Pub. 1776), and The Spirit of the Laws (Charles Montesquieu Pub. 1748) If you were to study all of this, you would see that the difference between running a program like this at a State Level vs. a Federal level is much more than a hairline difference. It's the most important difference.

Feisty -- I'm on your side, but it's not about bringing down the Black man in the office. It's about bringing down the Democrat in the office. If it's one thing Repubs can't stand, it's a smart Democrat, or at least smarter than they are, which is most Democrats these days. Remember how they tried to hound Bill Clinton out of office one way or the other? They scoured his entire life for a pretext for impeachment. If lying about adultery didn't work, their next option was jaywalking. Then they went after Hillary. The Clintons and Obama are smarter and wilier than most and that drives Repubs crazy.

it's a smart Democrat, or at least smarter than they are, which is most Democrats these days.

Who are you referring to??? LOL!!!

Honestly, if Romney won the primary it would be win/win. We'd have the two candidates least likely to halt health care reform on the ballot, ensuring its continuance into the following years.

Ellie Mae -- Just look at the current lineup for the Republican nomination, and go ahead and include the wannebes: Palin, Bachmann, etc. LOL!!!

The day my @!$%# governor in the State of Texas, Rick Perry, supports a state health program will be a cold day in hell. Not all states will. Rick Perry always has TXCHIP, the children's health insurance plan on the chopping block every chance he gets, and the state of Texas pretty much wiped out funding family planning programs for the uninsured.

Rhino40

I wish people could understand why there is such a big difference between a state run plan and a federally run plan. The difference is enormous. This is going to sound like I'm just a Cheerleader for Romney but I'm not. What I am is someone who actually understands our constitution and the way government is supposed to work.

===========================

OMG, how funny. Someone who actually understans our Constituion. Just has to be a rethuglicants as no one else does (and they let you know it).

Actually what we have here is someone SNL just hired to play Mitt Romney next to Tina Fey's Sarah Palin. And who thought SNL could beat their 2008 skits for laughs. It might make me watch SNL again.

The national rethuglicant party is a joke. Does anyone really expect any of it's current or potential candidates, ie, Newt, Sarah, Michelle, etc., to beat the cureent President? If so, thanks for the laugh.

You just got here and here you are passing judgment on someone you don't know. It seems as if you are one of those who will join in, if you see someone getting beaten up by several people.

It is such a joke to see the kind of name calling and attempt at put downs that these folks do, all the while accusing others of what they are doing themselves. So sad.

imwhitewolf: "rethuglicants" huh? Thats fine, you can call me whatever you like. But, if you do not like what I'm saying, do you have either the knowledge to show me where I am wrong, or the moral fortitude to admit that I am right? I'm guessing you don't. Nobody ever does. I know that sounds horribly arrogant on my part. I am sorry for that. But it would be nice to engage somebody in an actual discussion or debate instead seeing people instantly switching to name calling and irrelevant comparisons. Still, I bet if you put some thought into it, you could add something meaningful to the discussion. I'm rooting for you.

PS: Don't ASSume about party lines - you have NO idea who I am, and what I stand for! m'kay?

Fiesty...I dont think he is assuming. All one has to do is click on your name to find out who you are and what you stand for from something you wrote. This pretty much says it all:

"Let me begin by saying I am a STAUNCH Progressive Democrat and PROUD of it."

The only thing liberals do is play character assassination , they create a caricature of that person distort the reality and fantasize with it. There are no fact not true. While their own people are the joke. The whole foreign policy is a joke, immigration is a joke, economy is a joke, jobs a better joke , pork-stimulus a joke, transparency a joke this government is totally a big joke, this administration is laughable.

I dont quite understand what part of "Romneycare is breakin the state's finances" do liberals not understand? Its not cheaper, or lowering the financial burden on the state like Obama and the left thinks will happen. Its BANKRUPTING it. M'kay?

Liberals want it all, and to have someone else pay for it. Isnt that the recurring theme here?

Yes, healthcare for all is wonderful! But it comes with a price. I never hear a word out of the liberals saying "yes raise MY taxes, I will pay for it!" No, its "gimme that, but make the RICH guy pay the bill."

Okay, I'd like to point out a few things that will hopefully keep the same tired comments from popping up in the future:

"The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems was last produced in 2000, and the WHO no longer produces such a ranking table, because of the complexity of the task."

You can find this right on the same page as the worldwide healthcare rankings, which are being thrown around by people so often on these forums. This says two things: 1. This data is old. 2. Even with recent data available, the task of ranking healthcare systems is complex. These figures thrown about recently (U.S. listed #37), being both old and complex, are therefore not very usefull when trying to debate about the effectiveness of healthcare, the old way or obamacare.

My second gripe is: Before any of you try to say government-run healthcare is better because some of those countries were ranked higher (on that old, complex list), please visit a couple of countries with government-run healthcare (and not just the top few) and kindly self-inflict a gruesome injury or contract a dangerous disease. Evaluate your experience with the healthcare system there and tell us what it's like from firsthand experience in those hospitals. Now, I have lived in one of the free-ride hospital visit countries (Argentina) for several years, and I can promise you that you will think you're in hell if you need urgent attention. True it's ranked lower than the U.S. in that old, complex report, but it is about as close to a socialist style of healthcare as you come. Basically, if you're a doctor of any great ability, you leave the country to someplace where people are willing to pay you more for your great skill. People with "tummyaches" fill the ER rooms, and someone with their eye gushing blood have to wait for all these "urgent" cases in line ahead of them. I've seen this exact scenario by the way. In the end, you are lacking both quantity and quality in the way of medical professionals. You are now increasing in the amount of patients. (its a free visit to the hospital, why not get that tummyache checked out? This results in generally worse conditions, which can also have economic effects. You may disagree with me, capitalism, or healthcare, but professionals in healthcare guide themselves to greatest profits where capitalism allows it. You can pay more for better healthcare, or pay less and get less (unless of course you're silly enough to dump loads of money you don't have into such a healthcare plan, in which case you are paying more for less :) Of course such a shift will probably take years, but just watch, unless the govt. can afford to make sure doctors are receiving top dollar (because doctors can no longer count on great salaries with insurance companies footing the bill, and the aim of obamacare being to reduce the high price of health insurance), doctors will find somewhere else they can make more money. Right now, I'm betting we dont have enough money to pay all of them enough to keep them here without the high cost of private insurance being their main form of revenue. Get U.S. out of debt and back on track, and MAYBE it would work out well.

mnm45, if all of the rest of the industrialized nations already have socialized medicine, where would the American doctors go for better pay? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember Rush Limbaugh saying something about getting his procedures done in Costa Rica if the healthcare bill passed. Did you ever wonder why he chose Costa Rica? Could it be because they have universal healthcare? Also think about this, if a doctor went into his profession solely for the money, would you want him to be your doctor? Insurance companies are nothing more than middlemen whom we all pay for services that they don't even render. A bit of food for thought, maybe.

Rhino40 -

Your state vs. federal debate will come down to a Supreme Court decision. From there, all you will have left is posturing on the part of the ideologue.

Stop: Kind of a bold statement. First of all, I don't recall hearing that the supreme court was planning on ruling on the constitutionality of federal health-care. Second, even if they did, you are assuming they would rule a certain way, and finally, you are assuming that such a ruling could never be overturned. Which given the fact that a federally mandated health-care program is in fact unconstitutional seems improbable. So until such time, I guess I have more than just posturing. I wonder, what do you have to back up your position? Perhaps a better question might be; What is your position?

The difference between State Mandated Health Care and Federal Mandated Health Care is easy to see if you open your eyes.

With State Mandated Health Care - Choose to pay for health care or move to a different state.

With Federal Mandated Health Care - No choice but to pay for heath care.

Fiesty,

I have been reading your posts for a long time now, and from the stuff you say tells me you have nothing good to say about Republicans and you back Democrats even when they do things wrong.

Everybody has their opinions and that is what is great about our country. The one thing that bugs me about this First Read is the hatred spewed in these comments. Moreso than most of these comment boards. It seems as though folks think if they make fun of others, and spew hatred, that makes themselves better. Knowledge is always better than rhetoric, unless of course folks don't have knowledge on their side.

Mitt the Twit, the quintessential Hypocrite!

WILLARD, you have TOO MANY rats in your backyard!

(BRAVO, Feisty!)

"Mitt the Twit, the quintessential Hypocrite!

WILLARD, you have TOO MANY rats in your backyard!"

Yet another well reasoned and poinient argument by our liberal friends.

Mitt is a great leader and a good businessman. He is light years ahead of 0bama. 0bama can't lead a boy scout troop and doesn't know anything about Economics. Romney has to say that RomneyCare was a giant mistake and doesn't work and that 0bamacare for the entire country would be an economic disaster. We tried it and it doesn't work. I prefer a different GOP candidate but because of who the Dems are putting up I am forced to vote for whoever the GOP puts up - Anyone but 0bama in 2012.

The only way Mitt Romney has any possibility of winning the Presidency is if he realises that he is on the wrong side. The GOP do not care at all about your accomplishments in Mass. and unfortunately Romneycare reminds them of what they hate the most about Obama. If Romney wants to be President of the U.S. all he has to do is change from the right to the left and then run for the 2016 elections as a Democrat, while admitting that this group of GOP are too corrupted by the top 2% to continue with them. If he really want to help the American people than he needs to separate himself from the liars and thieves that are infesting the GOP today. Other than that he has no chance at all.

Brent-3019177: Yes, Costa Rica would attract Rush Limbaugh. Why? Well, 2 minutes of research could answer that. Costa Rica attracts "medical tourists" because of three top-notch PRIVATE hospitals. You should read the article, "Why Rush Limbaugh would go to Costa Rica if Obama's healthcare plan passes" I'm guessing you were possibly referring to that. Here are a few key points:

"But the Cadillac-style private hospitals at Chevy Aveo prices are what really draw 25,000 Americans to Costa Rica every year."

So, he would still be moving to receive private healthcare. Also, the government-run healtcare system in Costa Rica does not come cheap:

"Under law, all people employed in Costa Rica must contribute 5.5 percent of their salary to the state-run social security system and employers are required to match their payment with 9.25 percent."

About the time I'm paying 5.5 percent of my salary to government healthcare, there isn't too big of a difference between that and private insurance in some cases.

Finally, in regards to the care that the universal healthcare in Costa Rica: “The strengths of our health system (is) that it is universal, that it’s based on the idea of solidarity and that it’s fair,” says Dr. Ana Morice, vice health minister in Costa Rica. “What we need to improve is access to health services. Many times someone requests an appointment and doesn’t receive it until a year later. In that area, we have much to improve.”

So, bottom line: True, even private healthcare in Costa Rica is cheaper, due in part to lower labor costs and fewer malpractice suits, as mentioned in the article (costly malpractice suits are a big factor in medical fees here).

However, the public system being touted experiences these same long waits and reduced quality that I have seen in other such universal care systems. The Costa Rica case therefore only strengthens my position above. Higher cost private healthcare = higher quality + shorter waits. Universal healthcare = recuced quality + longer waits. Note this is in general, as I mentioned above, if the country to adequately provide incentives to medical professionals, this won't be the case, but that costs money...

As far as wanting a doctor who is in for the cash, yes, I would feel comfortable being operated on by him. Why? to get that cash in a very competitive field, that doctor driven by cash will have gone through a great deal of schooling and training to rise above the competition. If he doesn't take care of his patients, he will get sued and become known among patients as a bad doctor. It is in his interest to take care of you and do his best work.

As far as insurance goes, they do in fact "do something", they pay those high fees that you probably wouldnt be able to afford normally.

5.5%?!!!... Sign me up!

The only healthcare benefits I've ever been offered (being working class) have been between 20 and 40% of my income.

PS-The problem is not public healthcare, it's the MANDATE saying we are all REQUIRED to BUY insurance products form the oh-so-very-rich-friends of the government (corporations). That's almost like going to the grocery store and being told you will have to pay a fine if you don't buy anything. That's not socialism, by the way, it is the most insidious form of capitalism...

mnm45, I have to hand it to you, you are a true capitalist. I just disagree with the notion that healthcare should be for profit to begin with. I think it is wrong that many of the Costa Rican locals have to wait so long for their appointments, especially if those 25,000 Americans going there for "medical tourism", is the main reason for such. I believe a doctor should go into the meidcal field because they feel the need/urge/calling to help other people with their illnesses. There shouldn't be a need for insurance companies, as far as healthcare is concerned (for profit). FYI, true capitalism, will not work as a governmental economy for the same reason true communism won't, we have no real way of reigning in on human greed.

I think we can reach some common ground on most of what both of you have said above. Yes, it is unfortunate that something like healthcare has to involve some sort of profit in order to function. Yes, it would be great if doctors entered their profession simply because they were truly kind people interested in saving lives (many are of course). But we live in a very imperfect world. I agree that government economies will not work if it is too capitalistic or too communistic, but of the two, the effects of capitalism are much easier to predict, quite nearly so that you can bank on it. Communism on the other hand doesn't seem so easy to predict (at least for me). As noted above, yes I know the real problem (constitutionally) is the mandate part of this bill, I just thought I would share my experience of govt. healthcare programs with you, and as you can see I am not impressed. When the world turns into a better place I will be all for it, but until then, I will stick with the principles of capitalism that I can predict and plan for.

Yeas, Ira, but will Romney be able to run - and win - by doing the 'right thing'?

Not in his current party. NEVER!

Pietro, Columbus, Ohio and Missy TX

I'm not going to vote for him if he's a candidate but I believe that the media covers the fringe of the GOP. They get all the attention. I really believe that mainstream GOPers are as afraid of the crazies as we are and are looking for a candidate that reflects their views and values. Of everyone out there thus far, can you think of anyone better than him that the GOP can put up?

Well maybe the media "covers the fringe of the GOP" because that's all there is to the GOP. What moderate could possibly win the nomination? Moderates are called "RINO's" in that party.

Maybe because all they are offering are fringe candidates, you think?

I'm with you but which ones? The guy from Indiana? No. Huckabee? No. Newt? No. Donald (absolutely not). Ryan? Ummm, no. Pawlenty? No. Cain? No. All these possible candidates have not expressed their platform. What's their personal position on the question of a serious overhaul on healthcare? What jobs or job market do they see that no one else sees? I have much rhetoric over what "they might do", "if". But that's not a plan of action. Is everyone included? What do you do about Corporate Welfare? Education? What are you prepared to do about our broken educational system that is failing not on for the future but for now? Are you prepared to offer a serious plan on removing the US from reliance on foreign energy resources? Does religion play any part in how you view your politics? Are you for equal rights for all Americans? Are you prepared to balance a budget while still in a position to at least hold the ship afloat? These and many more are the issues at hand. Which of the above which I'll call the non crazies meet those issues? Mitt Romney seems like a nice guy. I think he'd be in over his head. But, I think he's the only one who would be able to debate the issues with President Obama. Who knows, it could be Mitt Romney but I think its a losing bet.

No Ira. There is no one else. I really do feel for Mitt. He doesn't need to defend his work in MA to most of us. He has supported a number of middle of the road positions over the years. If he would just go back to them BUT HE CAN'T in the current political climate and it probably wouldn't work anyway with the Republican party hog tied to the TeaPers (especially those religious right folks). Dems would not likely support a flip either at this point.

I believe he does represent what sanity there may be left in the Republican party. He really is one of the last of a hastily dying breed amongst the elephants: A Moderate (read Compromiser). Mitt has been moderate and has compromised so that makes him an anathema to the far right wing of his own party.

Bottom line, there is no one who can better OBAMA in 2012.

I like to see Obama and Newt debate.

Missy TX..

In a party where progressive is a dirty word, he seems to be the only "moderate"...I know, not in GOP terms, out there. I agree....given the current field, I don't think any of these guys can beat Obama unless the economy really nosedives or stays stagnant with high unemployment and oil prices. Then who knows what happens.

We talked about this last week (or was it the week before?) - the question of whether or not a candidate's inability to campaign without courting the fringe is the failure of the political elite or the failure of the electorate.

Now I'm beginning to rethink my earlier view, that the failure lies not with either our leaders or with the average voter, but with the media, if only because they're the ones who grant the demagogues a voice equivalent with otherwise level-minded folks. It seems to me we're spoon-fed the crazy espoused by the Alex Jones and Glenn Becks of the world only because a handful of networks are engaged in a bitter butter battle to keep their numbers of.

...given that, though, I suppose a case can still be made for the fault of everyone who buys into it, meek and mighty alike.

It's not up to the media to decide who is a bone fide candidate and who is not and then keep the candidates who are not, off the air. You're supposed to be smart enough to take in the information for yourself and make a decision...even if there's a bufoon up there at the mike talking.

Ira - Clearly you don't live in MA if you think what Mitt did was good. It is costing the state bundles and rates continue to sky rocket. To qualify for Mass Health the income threshold is $12,000 annually. The only ones making out are the burearcrats and the hospitals. Mass Dept of Health budget is out of whack. Interestingly enough run by good friends of the Senate President Murray. Hackorama continues.

thetotas

"I like to see Obama and Newt debate."

This would the more interesting of the debate match-ups but it will never happen. Newt is like an idiot savant (think Rainman) with his ability to pull up historical dates and facts. His issue is the inability to decipher the lessons that should have been learned from events. My own father had a miraculous memory. He once told me the entire history of the British Isles in about 6 hours from memory including dates and ascensions in order. Sometimes such a mind is a curse. My father was valedictorian of his high school and finished at the top of his class at Duke but never really found his niche in life. Newt is somehow deluded that the presidency is his niche. Not even a remote chance.

Newt is a very intelligent man. But smart? That is an entirely different question.

"I really believe that mainstream GOPers are as afraid of the crazies as we are and are looking for a candidate that reflects their views and values."

Come to SC and see that there are almost none in the GOP/TP who will call themselves moderate (aka mainstream). Like a swear word around here. They ran Bob Inglis from office and Lindsay Graham is next. Moderates cannot pass the conservative purity test and that is the end of a candidate in these parts.

There is one thing Sen. Jim Demint does well and that is represent the typical SC Republican. It isn't a pretty picture.

Wow-3058090..

I get your point but have a question. If these people were not under the MA plan, how much more would it cost the taxpayers to cover the UNINSURED costs of their medical care? It may cost a lot now but think of how much more it would be without insurance.

Wow-3058090..

The premiums have been going up since 2000 - not any different than what the rest of the country is experiencing. You are under the impression that the premiums go up because of RomneyCare but they go up regardless of..

it's not perfect but it's a start -at least insurance sompanies can't drop you because you become too expensive. You could be paying your whole life but the minute you need it, they take it away.

I have a friend in CT. She got laid off; found a job a few months later. Had to wait 90 days for the new insurance to kick in. In the mean time she found out she had a brain cancer...guess what happened.

Skip

One thing Romney has always shown is that he is up to whatever he tackles, and not only survives but does quite well. His biggest problem is his going along with the people on Massachusetts Care.

The only thing Newtie is good at is stringing multi syllable words together in a sentence that cause the "teabaggers" to be impressed, though they have no idea what he is saying. That is because he is saying nothing. He has nothing to offer. In his limited world, everyone who thinks differently then he does is a Nazi, and for some reason, he is worried about secular government, which is exactly what the Founders had in mind when they wrote the Constitution. Don't tell me how knowledgeable Newtie is about history. He isn't. He would look like a fool trying to debate our President.

Mitt, on the other hand, just handed a victory to the President on Health Care Reform. He talked about how mandating insurance was "personal responsibility". See, Mittie, if it is good to require people to be personally responsible for having insurance on YOUR plan, it is for the National Plan. You can't have this both ways. I don't see how Mittie makes himself palatable to the right wing. That chameleon thing he does, you know, where he tries to change colors depending on what he is running for is simply not going to fly.

newday...you lost me at teabaggers. Seriously, is this an adult debate because one wouldnt know by reading these posts. Suddenly its Obummer, libtard, repugs, teabaggers.

One thing I was taught in my athletic career is to respect your opponent and as a Christian, the Golden Rule. Obviously the memo hasn't gone out. Dispute and debate away, but the name-calling is a huge turn off. I dont even read posts any further once I get this garbage. Its completely discredited.

I dont even read posts any further once I get this garbage. Its completely discredited.

Well - lookee here NDD - we got ourselves a NJNB wannabe! lol read the exachange above to see the cheese head has some integrity issues! lol

"Let me begin by saying I am a STAUNCH Progressive Democrat and PROUD of it."

Ira - Point taken. Interestingly enough the hospitals were eating some of the costs and passing the rest of them to the state. Now the hospitals get the bill give it to the insurance companies and they pass it to the state. Add in the Dept. of Health who regulates the whole thing and we look forward to the Healthcare Cost Reduction Act of 2008? Still waiting for cost reduction.

Bayllie - Actually I have a personal interest in the no drop clause. If national healthcare does anything right it is that piece. I do understand that parts of what we have in MA is good but to hide the fact that it has only increased costs and not reduced them as sold to the public is very disappointing.

Feisty: it defies logic that a right winger would become incensed at the use of the term "teabagger," a name that the "teabaggers" chose for themselves. Isn't "respecting your opponent" using the name that THEY picked? I can't help that the "teabaggers" are so devoid of knowledge of the current lexicon that there is a different definition then the one they intended. It points up their dangerous ignorance, and why people should be highly suspicious and dismissive of their goals. But, more that that, Feisty, I am AMAZED at the new fans you have garnered in the "I wish I could write like Fiesty" fan club. The envy is never ending!

Here's a CLUE - when ONE of these tea baggers, says something that I would consider GOOD for this country - you can count me on board!

In the meantime, it's ALL about bringing down the black man in the WHITE house..

PS: Don't ASSume about party lines - you have NO idea who I am, and what I stand for! m'kay?

Wow, and still nothing towards getting knowledge about what we are writing. With knowledge, you would know that many Pols are saying the right thing. Without knowledge, we use name calling and everything they say isn't GOOD.

By the way, I am not a Republican, I am a knowledgable Independent. I believe in learning about the candidates and voting for the best person. Unlike many who would rather not learn about who they are voting against and try to sway others through intimadation and name calling. I ask the smart people to rise above this rhetoric and actually have a comment board with real substance.

middle class: I really have no idea what you are talking about with this comment. Do you care to elucidate?

It's a great idea, but the problem with Massachusetts is that they have a huge public transportation system and to many people on welfare to pay for everything. If it wasn't for federal funding the state would go bankrupt.

NDD...I am well aware of how it got started. I am also well aware the liberals use that term in its derogatory alternative meaning but hide behind its original use to defend yourself when you are called out.

Fiesty...integrity my behind. Are you even aware that quote is on your own profile?

Because the leaders of the republican party have promissed the insurance companies that there will be no health care reform.

Jim, you're exactly right ! Notice how all of this talk of repeal by the Republicans is still without a plan they would replace it with.

Exactly, Eric. I always said 'if the repubs don't like what Obama put out there, why didn't they go with all THEIR great ideas they had for the 8 years under Bush'? Because the y DIND'T HAVE ANY! And, STILL DON'T.

The republican scheme is to degulate health care across state lines. This would result in a rush by insurance companies to set up shop in the states with the least consumer protection, least inclination to prosecute white collar crime, and the tightest good ole boy network. Guess what color those states might be??? You're right. The GOP plan, if implemented, would result in the transfer of $Trillions in health insurace business from blue states like CA, MA, and NY to red states like MS, AL, SC. It would be the largest and fastest re-distribution of wealth in human history. Scam artists with the ethics of Bernie Madoff would sell insurance over the internet, then refuse to pay claims, safe in the knowledge that his golfing buddy, the state AG, will never prosecute a case brought by someone from a liberal state.

"across state lines" would allow your insurance company to be based in SAIPAN of the Northern Mariannas Islands. No Kidding.

If the Democrats submitted a Republican plan, these Republicans would vote no.

They did. Romney care. Now even Romney thinks Romney care is a bad idea. (but only because Obama liked it.)

And some of us believe health care is a legitimate national issue. That's why we finally have joined the rest of the developed world in having a national health plan, as limited as it is. Give this issue to the states, and it'll be like what we have in education...whole states written off.

tidho - They are both governments; I don't see any big difference.

(one has money).

Hmmm Good for Mass but bad for the rest of the country? Hmmmmmm

Well, JoAnne PA- maybe the RIGHT is afraid of his beliefs, but if you read the paid-posts on here daily, you know this doesn't affect the left, because the left HAS no beliefs. Not a single one of us!

(tee-hee, snicker)

Actually, Dennis, I think you would find that most liberals don't care about a candidate's religious beliefs beyond hoping that he or she belongs to some religious group with values for living that are compatible with most of us. I'm afraid it is the conservatives who find his religion an issue.

Dennis, trust me, the fact that he is a Mormon has nothing to do it with. In fact, being frrom Massachusetts, it is Romney's lack of beliefs that scare me.

By the way, anyone know where he is really living now? He sold his the mansion he bought when he ran for Governor. I here he still votes here, but uses his son's address.

Mormons have more integrity than others?? These are the kinds of ideas we're supposed to take seriously? (no wonder your not supposed to talk about that...LOL)

Hey, Drive-by -

You can call me JoAnna if you must (as long as you leave off the Smiff, of course), but nobody's ever mixed me up with a Dennis before!

Other than that, though, I agree completely! :)

Democrats could care less that he is a Mormon. The people who have a problem is the Republicans.

Job1, Democrats could care less because Romney is just one more Republican we AIN'T going to vote for, and you're right, we are discriminating against Romney because he's a moron.

Well Im glad all 14 of you agree! One big messy liberal luv fest! Just dont ask me to clean up the floor! Yuk!

Well Im glad all 14 of you agree!

How can there be 14 of us when, we're all the same person?

*sheesh*

Pick a rumor and stick to it - will ya?

Not my rumor......I know your not all one person. Some of you spell better and use correct grammar! Poor Bev was just a product of her environment! At least I dont have to re read Feisty's posts 3 times to actually understand whats being said!

Poor Bev was just a product of her environment!

I didn't realize that she is no longer with us.

Right. It's a low bar, but you have to at least be able to pass the "laugh test" when you announce you are running for President.

Excellent!

I'm not buying that right wing spin. Massachusetts now covers over 95% of it's residence with health care, and in the middle of the worst recession in decades, it's costing way less than 1 percent of the state budget to do it. You've finally got a mechanism for controlling costs, and some guarantee of health care for nearly everyone. I'd hate to see what failure looks like in your definition.

We have a federal government for a reason. The last thing I want is to give states like South Dakota more say over making sure the constiuttion does not apply to women in their state, or states like Kansas and Texas having the freedom to teach that science is just a 'theory', or that fresh air or clean drinking water isn't "in the budget", or deciding who gets to vote or whether you can get birth control. No thanks. "States rights" is only a rallying cry for those who don't know this country's history or don't care.

Or for those that realize that states were created in the first place to check and balance the federal government. Who is to stop the federal governement from doing whatever they like if there is no balance in government? We fell economically to the state we are in in the USA because the federal government has applied itself to so many state budget monies that the people dont really have a say in what policies are passed into law and how that money is used. By the way, the supreme court is there to rule on whether the constitution is being upheld or not by states. Again, checks and balances.

Actually, states can apply for a waiver, if they implement their own program at least as good as federal. That's also in the new law.

Mitt, You can't un do the truth. Telling a lie and trying to look truthful is not working. I'd have more respect for you if you just say this is what I did, take it or leave it.

Mitt Romney looks more and more handsome and is the only one onthe

Republic an ticket I would vote for in 2012 I can't stand Ron Paul and the Tea Party. President Obama has nothing to worry about if Ron Paul, Donald Trump

Ginrich, etc succeed I t will be a landslide for Pres. Obama

Does anybody know what the teaparty/GOP wants to do about the looming American health care crisis?

They hope you die quickly...

Thats it. I was hoping someone could tell me. Is it really just continue with the status quo?

Is it really just continue with the status quo?

Well, not really - now the baggers & birthers are going after Medicare & Medicaid!

These fanatics won't be satisfied until the seniors are living in the street!

Of course, that would accelerate their demise...

Does anyone know what the Dems want to do about the rising debt? Before long this country will look like Detroit.

Does anyone know if that committee has been set up yet to study why our gasoline prices are so high? Oh never mind, I completely forgot that immigration takes presidence over anything affecting American Citizens like gas and food.

Well Ellie Mae, now that you have asked, it seems that so many on the right have been crying that illegal immigrants are destroying the very fabric of our country, so immigration has been made a priority. If you are worried about the price of gas, you might ask the Repubs in the House why they voted to defund the "Wall St. Reform Act", which would have been regulating those pesky speculators on Wall St. who are making our gas prices rise (no, it isn't a supply and demand thing, since demand has decreased over the last 2 years), which in turn makes the cost of everything else, including food, go up. Just remember, you did ask.

Agreed. If other states would have been proactive in getting similar systems in place, then there would have been less of a need for overall Healthcare Reform.

No matter what Romney says, his arguements don't hold water because signing the legislation in Mass indicates that he believed Health Care Reform was necessary and that the idea of universal coverage was a good one.

People who don't know how to write the English language - if their fingers are moving, they are using the wrong there/their/they're or your/you're, or making some other stupid mistake that takes 10 seconds to learn.

Last thing we need is opinion from people who can't even write the language they've been speaking their entire life. Go back to school.

LeftLeaningLisa

Another "leftie" who can not add or substract, more worried about presentation, than substance!

Inflation is kicking in daily from Obamanomics and the crooks in Washington -

Are YOU, as a "Obama", grow government, borrow, entitle, bailout, print money, tax, supporter, enjoying watching Amerika Politicians price the US out of exsistence?

Inflation is happening right before your eyes. Congratulations!

The more your "saviour Obama" tries, the more he messes things up.

A TRUE patriot YOU are.

Amerika needs more robotic followers, like YOU, who do not want to be responsible for their own exsistence and decisions.

YOUR Government will provide for you! (yes it was a "non possesive" typo there, instead of their) Substance, rather than presentation is what counts and Obama enjoys the presentation, even if his presentation is filled with LIES!!

The more Obama does nothing but lie, the worse America gets - end the wars, I believe, I believe, I believe, close Gitmo, I believe, I believe, I believe BAILOUT NEEDED NOW to hold the line on Unemployment under 8%, I believe, I believe, I believe, and the RESULTS of Obamanomics - Inflation - THAT, I do believe check the price of fuel and groceries, oh yeah, the "government" does not include THOSE costs in figuring inflation

Anybody pay attention to the RESULTS of the last election? 2012 is a coming!

Hey MtMike-571674,

I work for Chrysler. Across town GM announced it is going to ADD 4,200 MORE jobs to our nation's workforce. Ford announced additional hires and Chrysler just added 1,400 engineering jobs. Chrysler is looking at boosting production at some of its plants to meet demand, and this made possible due to the auto LOANS that Bush, and Obama made the industry. Loans that were PAID BACK,.....WITH INTEREST!!!

I'll put you in a room alone with the people put back to work by the prescience of these presidents, and you can spout your stuff, and tell all of them that you'd like to see em' fired. They won't find a piece of you big enough to bury.

Better yet, why don't you get out of the trailer once in a while, and drive over here to Detroit and apply for one of these jobs? ;O)

I think the auto industry alone is forecast to add 46,000 jobs to this state in the next 10 years for skilled, educated people.

Michigan. the place to go for jobs. Now if we could just get all the repiglican slime out of the way.

Yes 2012 is coming. And with unemployment finally coming down, record profits for a whole lot of sectors, the automobile industry back on its feet, jobs finally being added, the lowest interest rates in decades continuing, Bush's endless and costly wars finally being wound down, this country's first health care bill, the slow ending of the far right imbalance on the Supreme Court, real regulatory reform on the financial industry, and the end of Osama Bin Laden, we finally have a President with real substance. Can't wait to see what can be accomplished in his second term. Now if we can get Congress to stop fighting him on Gitmo, drop their ridiculous notion of dismantling Medicare and Medicaid, stop the war on women in states like Indiana and South Dakota, and the nonsense about no immigration reform, we'll really be on our way. (And I happen to agree with you about being called out for punctuation and spelling, but you should at least learn to spell America the non-communist way before questioning someone's patriotism and knowledge.)

Greg in Detroit

The "great bailout" has to create 360,000 jobs per month to start to gain on what the US job loss was from this receession. That, is not happening, not once under Obama! The DEBT and DEFICIT continues to go up! THAT HAS HAPPENED UNDER OBAMA

How much did each job "created" BY THE GREAT BAILOUT cost taxpayers. The math, do the math!

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

I hope this report is wrong!

http://www.propublica.org/article/latest-stimulus-job-numbers-are-in-but-what-do-they-mean-1016

and this one

http://nation.foxnews.com/stimulus-money/2011/02/24/cbo-jobs-created-or-saved-stimulus-cost-228055-each

or this one

http://www.ktvz.com/news/24454594/detail.html

AND the current taxpayer Federal DEFICIT and DEBT, continues to grow

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Why IS IT NONE of you GOVERNMENT IS A CURE ALL types, "add" and "subtract"?

Substance, not presentation! I beleive, I believe, I believe, yeah right!

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

AP-1414066

Are you selling the KOOL AID YOU ARE DRINKING?

Hilarious post! Try doing the math!

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Romnocare? Well, he had the right idea. Surprising for the Republican field of candidates.

MtMike-571674: Shut up man, go watch Limbaugh, or Glen Beck. 99% of the people that made the mistake of voting for the GOP “Gestapo on Parade” are sorry they did you’re amongst the 1 miserable percent that’s too proud, or wittless to accept the fact the you guys shot yourself in the foot, come 2012 none of the criminals enemies of the people will hold a single seat in our congress, yes we’re taking America back, not backwards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GOP= GESTAPO ON PARADE.

Jhon Smith-2116087

ENTITLED ONES who think a "social worker, community organizer President" knows how to run a country - Explain how to pay this or does the NATIONAL DEBT not matter to those of you with your hands out, THAT CAN NOT ADD AND SUBTRACT, or care for yourself and need someone else to care for you!

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

2010 was a hint, those of you that think you are "entitled" are in trouble.

2012 will force you to go to work!

MtMike, your posts look like they were written by the Aardvark from the 1970's cartoons. You babble a lot, but make little to no sense. As far as doing math, let's see Clinton raised taxes on the wealthy and created over 22 millon jobs in his 8 years in office. Dubya cut taxes for the wealthy and only created about 4 millon jobs. I'll let you do the math. The bailouts started in Dubya's last term and ended under Obama, so to solely blame that on Obama is not being factual. If you want to talk about math, show me the numbers of what our economy would be like if Obama hadn't passed the stimulus pkg. Show me how high unemployment would be if he hadn't loaned the auto industry the money they needed to survive. Just so you know, I have a job in the technology industry, so I am not looking for any hand outs as you seem to think most of the other posters here want. Did you ever read the preamble to the Constitution? Did you skip over the part about providing for the general welfare of it's citizens or do you just believe the preamble has no validity? The debt went up so much because we had to spend enough to stop the downward spiral our economy was spinning in when Obama took office, so yes, the deficit has increased significantly. If you believe that we can just cut our way to prosperity, then you should really take a macroeconomics course, so you can learn that our economy doesn't work that way. Think about it, our economy is 70% consumer based. That menas that if people are unemployed and don't have disposable income, then they do not go out buying things that are sold. Plain and simple. If there are no jobs created, then we will not find prosperity. The jobs are coming back but at a slower pace than expected. The stimulus pkg. was actually too small to do the job we were told it was going to do, so our recovery is being strung out over a longer period of time, than has been had bay any other recession (other than the Great Depression). While you whine like a mule, you didn't seem to offer any suggestions for solutions other than vote out all the liberals. Sorry dude, you'll have to do better than that, to be taken seriously.

Brent-3019177

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Evidently, you not only can not add and subtract, you are unable to read!

Here is but one of my posts - try looking for my "solutions"

There is no fiscally responsible plan being presented from Obama to stop the negative cash flow in the US - NONE!

Obama (and Bush) and his fiscal plan, with his borrow, entitle, bailout, print money, grow government, engage in wars, then tax, to keep the status quo going is a proven failure, both here and in Europe.

The US needs to: protect our borders, rebuild our infra-structure, cut back the Military Industrial Complex (and the US) from depending/being a "war machine" to create jobs here in the US (another of Obama's failed campaign promises - end the wars)

The US need to turn our US economy around, by implementing fair trade agreements and rebuilding middle class America, rewarding citizens who are fiscally responsible, not taxing those citizens out of exsistence!

That is done with JOBS, Fair Trade Agreements, here in America! Our political leaders are simply puppets, bought by corporate america campaign donations.

It is the economy People, and OBAMA (and Bush's) economic policies are a COMPLETE FAILURE!

America does not have time!

Inflation is happening NOW and the average Americans can not afford that!

Have a nice time waiting - QE2 is ending, the US has been put on alert (S&P) about their credit rating - the clock is ticking fast - one way, (voluntarily) or another (by our US lenders FORCING THE US) the US will have to address their debt and deficit - very, very, soon.

Obama is clueless as far as fiscal responsibility - It is the economy, people!

Hey Mt. Mike: here is some math for you. In 1981, the national debt was less than $1T. At the end of Bush's last budget, FY 2009, it was almost $12T. That means that the last 3 GOP presidents signed TWENTY deficit riddled budgets that led to $11T in debt!!

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm

So, just WHO has been been running up the debt to crisis levels??? You didnt think all those reagan/bush/bush deficits would go away did ya??? In addition, the GOP did this DELIBERATELY!

In the reagan administration, conservatives adopted a strategy called "starve the beast" which entailed running up the debt to such heights as to cause a debt crisis! IN that way, they could present privatizing all the social entitlemet programs as a necessity rather than a choice.

http://www.forbes.com/2010/05/06/tax-cuts-republicans-starve-the-beast-columnists-bruce-bartlett.html

http://www.dlc.org/print.cfm?contentid=251788http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10054/1037783-109.stm

The bottom line is that the gop deliberately created this debt crisis JUST so they could accomplish a political goal. They endangered the national security and economic future of the country to get the trillions spend on entitlements into the hans of corporations, bankers and Wall St moguls who just crashed the economy! Why should they participate in governing the country they've nearly destroyed???

Tom in NH-294381

The year we are living in is 2011 - why are you pointing blame on ancient history?

It has taken 40 years of mismangement to get the US to where we are - Much of the time in the past, Democrats ran Congress with a Republican President (or vice versa)

The Obama administraion is NOW in charge TODAY and Obama is where the buck stops TODAY.

America does not have "time" to continue down a path of bankruptcy and default! (we have had time already, as explained and shown several times in earlier posts)

Tomorrow, is something we as a country can DO something about! (the debt clock is ticking)

YESTERDAY, is what we can learn from - but you Dems want to try to continually place blame on yesterday, instead of find solutions today, this is just ridiculous -

Why defend Obama, when Obama and his continuation of Bush's policies are a failure - and that is what Obama has done, continue Bush's policies.

Obama is just one more "bought and paid for" crooked politician who has lied and lied and lied.

Look at Obama's campaign promises! Close Gitmo, End the Wars (not start another), Hold the line on unemployment at 8% (yeah right) Bailouts for the Banks and Wall Street (2009) Obamacare that is being court challenged by 1/2 the States

Obama's programs are a failure! (just a extension of Bush's failed policies) DO THE MATH! LOOK at the results. Borrow, Entitle, Bailout, Grow Government, Print Money and now Inflation - Record Debt, Record Foreclosures, near record unemployment - it is the economy people!

America lacks leadership - BOTH parties. Time to find some fiscal responsibility.

1981 is not ancient history.

The elected repubs. are also "...bought and paid for." What is the problem? No, what is even the distinction everyone thinks they can claim between one party or the other (There are more than two, and any of them are potentially viable if WE THE PEOPLE ever figure out that it was up to us all along.)

What lesson is everyone supposed to have learned from the midterm election...?... That if voters are largely apathetic about the results of a given election, and do not vote in any large numbers, (my state it was just over 30% of registered voters who cast a ballot...Yours?... Compare that to 2008: Nearly 70%) that it opens the doorway of opportunity to fanatical fringe groups to gain a voice in government, at large?... That's the lesson I learned... again.

Seriously though, the "either/or" mentality in US politics is getting old (thumbs down for WA and the "top two" system). So is the cult of personality.

To be blunt, I don't like Mitt Romney. Something about his personality just doesn't suit me... but that doesn't matter. If he says things that I feel are in line with my own values, and demonstrates those same principles consistently, then he is most certainly a contender for my vote. I voted for Ralph Nader twice and I think he's, on a lot of levels, kind of a beechy jerk... personality should be the LAST consideration if it even comes into play. Not just voting, but being informed, is key to being a responsible citizen of a republic.

Sorry MtMike, you'll still have to take the macroeconomics course. You haven't figured out that the inflation you speak of isn't really inflation. The reason the price of vitually all products being sold is going up is because gas prices are soaring due to Wall St. speculators. When the price of fuel rises, so does the price of every product brought to market by a truck. It has very little to do with supply and demand. Also remember, that being in debt is not the same as being broke. Being broke means you have no income/revenue. Our gov't. has revenues and a substantial debt. The only way out is to cut some spending, raise some taxes, and rework the tax code. If these 3 things are not done then we will never see prosperity. To say Obama's economic policies are a complete failure also shows a bit of short-sightedness on your behalf. If it hadn't been for his policies, the stock market could still be in freefall. In fact, if you look at the actual figures, our economy has grown steadily for about the last year and a half. No, it hasn't grown fast enough, nor has uneployment gone down enough, but if he hadn't done what he did, imagine how much worse this economy would be. Yes, we have to do something about the deficit, but, as stated above, you can't place that sqaurely on him and Bush. The only other thing that has to added here is that we also need to have some serious campaign finance reforms. Otherwise, our politicians will always be beholden unto the corporations that pay for their campaigns, and term limits should be part of it, also.

Brent-3019177

"The only other thing that has to added here is that we also need to have some serious campaign finance reforms. Otherwise, our politicians will always be beholden unto the corporations that pay for their campaigns, and term limits should be part of it, also."

YOU suffer a severe case of reading comprehension -

READ, my posts above!

Obama is in charge NOW! The YEAR is 2011 - This has been OBAMA's economic decision time = bailout, entitle, borrow, print money, grow government and now INFLATION! The results of THOSE decisions are Obama's.

Pay for workers has not kept up with inflation - costs of good are GOING UP - record debt, record foreclosures, high unemployment - i

In 2012, after the next election, who is the winner going to blame for what they inherited economically, maybe, ACCORDING TO YOU DEM'S, it should be the Founding Fathers for inventing this country.

Just think IF Obama wins in 2012, He will be in REAL TROUBLE, Obama may have TO BE ABLE TO BLAME HIMSELF! What we did, did not work.

If the person in charge is not responsible, who is? Must be the idiots that elected him? NOW, there is a novel thought - Stupid is, as Stupid does, America. Anyone watching Greece, Spain, Ireland and the Euro collapse? America, get ready! We are doing the SAME THING!

The collapse of America continues!

MtMike:

I am soooo happy you trotted out the Fox News talking points about US Debt. Here's one for YOU to look at. If you were so concerned about the debt why weren't you jumping up and down and screaming when Bush was doing it? It is just a question. It won't hurt you.

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

Bush DOUBLED the debt in 8 years. Why no outcry from you cowboy? I just got your partisan colors to show. Obama had to spend the money to save the American economy. The repubs rigged it that way, and then sat back and laughed while the Dems were feverishly extinguishing the fires of a Depression with stimulus water.

I don't object too much if the Congress spends money on the PEOPLE. That's Democratic.

We have a name for when government spends money on corporations and the wealthy. In these parts we call it republicanism. Welfare for the well-off, republican Socialism, republican income redistribution, Reverse Robin Hood,....it has a number of names. All have the same objective: starve the middle class to feed the rich.

During the Bush years our government became nothing more than an elaborate money transfer mechanism from the people to companies and the wealthy. Unfortunately these republican parasites took too much money for too long. It triggered a Depression. Look at your failed mortgages, your banks going under, companies bankrupt, people bankrupt, a Depression looming.

And enablers like you who cannot do elementary arithmetic. Wake up boy!

Greg in Detroit

One last time, the year is 2011, BUSH WAS A IDIOT and is responsible in many ways for the mess America is in.

Obama is doing EXACTLY what BUSH did - spending money America does not have - in a manner FASTER THAN BUSH did.

Wake up - Bush is gone, this is Obama's economy and this economy is FAILING!

This country can not, borrow, entitle, bailout, grow government, print money and tax their way to fiscal responsiblity.

America has a credit limit with the rest of the world - the US is now paying .40 interest to investers on each dollar spent, do the math, THAT HAS TO STOP!

Bush was bad (2.1 Trillion), Obama is worse (4 Trillion) in spending money the US does not have - time for America to change course!

MtMike,

Stop yelling. You sound like th schoolyard bully who doubles up his fist and tells people to agree with them or else.

Spotts1701

no yelling - it is people who want to point blame at Bush or Reagan and not take responsibility for today, where America is at now, today, where will America be in 5 years, 10 years? Obama is in charge now, this is Obama's Bailout, this is Obama's economy.

It will take a plan to get America OUT, of this economic mess, not, following the same course that got us in to this mess.

The results of Obama speak for themselves. Lies, bailouts, borrowing, entitling, growing government, printing money, then tax - nope, not working! (exact same thing the past has done, but much worse and more plentiful under Obama)

I am surrounded by people who enjoy being bankrupt! (greedy, self-centered)

The economic time-bomb was planted by GRAMM-LEACH-BLILEY, which passed the Senate with a veto proof majority of 92-8. Obama volunteered to head our recovery from the mess that Bush/Cheney/Reagan/GRAMM "created" and you want to complain about the expense of the repairs, rather than the damage from these SABOTEURS.

Paul-977599

The expense of the repairs should be the discussion. Not continuing the fiscal damage done, as Obama is doing and arguing who started the damage.

That's like saying that we shouldn't file wrongful death suits against murderers in civil courts, or bother with criminal trials for them either, we should just focus on the "repairing" of the damage that they have done, and allow them to continue to walk freely among us. Sabotage is a crime. GRAMM was an economic saboteur.

We find ourselves somewhat in agreement MtMike, but I still blame Bush.

If Bush cut off your left hand with a hatchet in 2002,...... he's still to blame for it in 2011.

Same with our economy. Bush did this, and repubs own it. Given a chance,...they'll do it again.

What Paul 977599 says about Gramm-Leach-Bliley is true. It eliminated the last protections of the Glass-Steagall Act which was a bullwark against another Great Depression. Clinton signed Gramm-Leach-Bliley though did he not? Byron Dorgan is on Youtube warning us against what would happen. Just listen to it. He knew then in 1999.