and according to the majority of Americans made the CORRECT decision!

i agree with the decision but it is a mistake to conclude that a premise is correct because most people agree with it. examples of this is arizona's SB1070 and california's proposition 8.

for the most part though, i dont really care whether the photos are released or not. bin laden being killed is strictly symbolic, and he probably has already been replaced.

but on the other hand, i think it will be fun for us to watch tea bag politicians who unconditionally embrace their base try to explain in a debate why they let their constituents float conspiracy theories.

conversely, it will also be great to watch them get burned at the stake if they go on fox news and say that they dont believe in the conspiracy theories.

It isn't rocket science!

Will the media PLEASE stop making an issue of this! And nobody cares that Osama was unarmed when he was killed. Over 3000 people in New York were unarmed too when he slaughtered them.

Why is it that at FIRST...they WANTED to see them

WHO wanted to see them?

Proof Please?

Bush refused to show the caskets of our honored dead returning home. "Nuthin to see here folks". This was to sanitize an unneeded, un-paid-for war, hence anesthetizing public perception. But this is different.

The macabre exhibition of bin Laden's remains won't make him any deader. I guarantee it.

Bin Laden has already had far more than his 10 minutes of fame and the damage he has done America will outlive him by centuries.

Someone once observed that bin Laden's objective was not to engage the U.S.A. militarily. No. He knew better. His objective was to make America drain its Treasury in a futile quest for his head.

He sought to bleed America white.

He has prevailed. He beat America the only way you can: from within; by turning us against one another.

I'm glad he's dead, and President Obama subjected him to the best use I can think of for a terrorist: fish food. But once this dies down let us remember OBL's prime objective and start the process of carrying on with life after OBL.

Let us defeat HIM by thwarting him prime objective. Bring home our troops. Remain vigilant. Begin healing.

Someone once observed that bin Laden's objective was not to engage the U.S.A. militarily. No. He knew better. His objective was to make America drain its Treasury in a futile quest for his head

Indeed Greg!

Everyone seems to forget that bin Ladens #1 objective was to crush us economically!

Is it any wonder that Bush declared 'Mission Accomplished'?

the sheep will always side with their sheperd

Sheep? According to the guy below we're cattle... so which is it?

Sounds like there's some 'branding' problem among the baggers & birthers. lol

One things consistant - you are ALL lemmings...

Still waiting for some proof to back up your BS...

Happy Mother's Day Feisty!! I treated my wife to a crepe' Suzette, with blackberries and blueberry preserves. Later I intend to surprise her with a warm oil foot rub. Those usually put her in orbit!!

A Motor City Blessing to all the Moms out there.

This will be my first Mother's Day without my Mom. Readers: today treat your Mom as if this is your last Mother's Day together. Neither of you will regret it.

Happy Mother's Day Feisty!! I treated my wife to a crepe' Suzette, with blackberries and blueberry preserves. Later I intend to surprise her with a warm oil foot rub. Those usually put her in orbit!!

WOW!!! She is one LUCKY lady!

Readers: today treat your Mom as if this is your last Mother's Day together. Neither of you will regret it.

Nothing could be TRUER! This is my second Mother's Day without my Mom and it isn't getting any easier! ;o(

This is my second Mother's Day without my Mom and it isn't getting any easier! ;o(

Somewhere a proud angel smiles down on her Feisty Redhead!!

The President indeed made the right decision on NOT releasing the photos. There is no pleasing Nay-Sayers and conspiracy theorist. Fact is, most of them are only looking for finger-pointing ammunition anyway. They hate this president; other than being Racist,I don't think even they know why! Poor devils...

Obama is proving to be,so far,one of the most pragmatic,level headed,insightful leaders we've had in quite awhile! Begs the question,how much more we could get done if the obstructionist Republicans would help out with this Nations many problems... instead of perpetually playing partisan politics, for political gain.No No No to everything ,is not a solution to anything...

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Sheep? According to the guy below we're cattle... so which is it?

Sounds like there's some 'branding' problem among the baggers & birthers. lol

One things consistant - you are ALL lemmings...

Still waiting for some proof to back up your BS...

It won't matter to these birther/deather lemmings.......... if the photos ever gets posted, then they will start screaming its fake and its photoshop. Or its a double. It seems they only listen to the radicals and common sense just gets thrown out the window.

FedupwithFed

too bad feisty is on NV and not spending time with her children...hmmm?

Wouldn't bet on it Fed. I bet the kids n' her are gonna find time to love on each other before the day is out.

:o)

I saw Elvis yesterday at a the mall!

For those who fail to grasp the reasoning: Do you really really think it wise to create more enemies in the Arab world? Also, releasing photos would be detrimental to our efforts in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and our relations with our current as well as potential future Arab allies, as well as the security of Israel and the United States of America. Go tea bag heads!!!!

I agree with Not releasing the Pics for public display.

What is more interesting, is how President Obama is settingup the End of the Big War on Terrorism. Cutoff the Head of the Snake, release Unflatteringly videos(courtesy of the Data taken from his CAVE) of thier inspiration to show what they placed thier Inspiration in.

The price of OIL was tied into this, as we can tell by the 15% decline(just this week)since OBLs Extermination. Some will say otherwise, but rational thinkers know the Price of Oil has had more to do with, than the value of the Dollar.

As I mentioned a couple days ago, the cost of Oil was under $28(barrel)back in 2001, it is Now, 4 times that much & has been as high as 6 times that much.

VP Cheneys Energy Policy hadda a lot to do with the Price!

Now President Obama has started the process of bringing that Policy to an END!

Thank You President Barrack Hussein Obama !

This is inaccurate at best Greg- the families didn't want them being photographed and President Bush honored that request.

Care to try again?

Defense Secretary Robert Gates on Tuesday ordered a review of a military policy
that bans the media from taking photographs of U.S. soldiers' caskets as they're
flown into Dover Air Force Base. His announcement came less than 24 hours after
President Obama spoke on the issue at his first prime time press conference.

Gates said he asked the White House about a year ago if the policy at Dover
might be changed. In addition to privacy concerns, he said Bush administration
officials responded that family members of the deceased soldiers might feel
compelled to be at the base for services honoring their family member, and that
could be financially burdensome for them.

While the ban on media
coverage of military caskets arriving at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware
has been a matter of policy since 1991, exceptions had been made during
President George H.W. Bush's administration. But in 2003, at the beginning of
the Iraq War, the Pentagon banned coverage of all "deceased military personnel
returning to or departing from" air bases, citing privacy rights of those killed
and their families

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CFAQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rcfp.org%2Fnewsitems%2Findex.php%3Fi%3D9944&ei=tdXGTankD6bm0QHFk-GzCA&usg=AFQjCNElYmaAD_GbcS7GwprwP3qejCicPQ

Funny thing - I couldn't find anything stating where the families made the request.

Well said Feisty - the truth lives on.

so the graphic images are released and you're back on here in a nanosecond screaming "photoshopped!!"

You know what you're government is "up to"...don't believe it? Ask Al Quaida.

FedupwithFed

too bad feisty is on NV and not spending time with her children...hmmm?

You're just a major league low life. Nothing more and probably much, much less.

FedupwithFed

too bad feisty is on NV and not spending time with her children...hmmm?

And just what are you doing besides spinning you wheels like most GOPerS?

Have you found a new hate talking point yet? Or is it you can't find anything else buried in your hole?

You're just a major league low life. Nothing more and probably much, much less.

I was thinking the exact same thing Dennis! ;o)

@Bev - Hope your Mothers Day was special! *hugs*

@Greg - Thanks for the warm wishes about my Mother - it made me smile!

@Bev - Hope your Mothers Day was special! *hugs*

Thanks Feisty

It sure was/is my 9 year old grandson took me to Lincoln Park Zoo because he just thought I should go. Now my my 92 year old is here. He is a riot. My sister brought him over. He gets confused at times and calls me by my mom's name. The older I get the more I look like her. He counting his money right now trying to figure out what he's gonna get me and my two sisters. LOL My sister says he has been doing that all day.

@Greg I know what you mean my mom died the day after the millineum. Thanks for sending Motor city love our way.

So MSNBC, Why don't you write a headline about your own poll results that show 2/3 WANTED THE PHOTOS RELEASED? Didn't like the results?

Should the White House release Osama bin Laden’s death photos?

66%

Yes. It will silence conspiracy theories.

83,190 votes

http://www.msnbc.com/id/42873423/ns/world_news-death_of_bin_laden/

Web polls are unscientific and unreliable.

Unlike many who follow the popular polls, some people are actually smart and think original thoughts of their own because they worked very hard for years studying world events and human nature in society. Our gifted and intelligent president is one who knows what he is doing for real and has exercised good judgement keeping diplomacy and world peace in mind. He is also aware of the customs of other cultures and being courteous in exercising justice, as well as exercising some decency and grace. He has repeatedly emphasized that a criminal is a criminal and that he is not out to be prejudiced toward any race creed or color PERIOD. Some day, like in the Kennedy archives and other historical events like in WW2, some photos that are too controversial now, will be accessible to those who study history in college and to those who may wish to visit a museum in person in the government publications department. In times of war, it has always been that classified is classified for good reason.

Also, why not go ask other officials about this procedure, like our senators or our Secretary of State. Those who point their fingers at the President only are at best naive, at worst just ignorant to do anything else. Our government consists of three branches and two bodies within the legislative branch. There is a necessity for following what is called proper protocol in conducting ongoing legal and diplomatic current affairs in 2011 AD. This is not Rome and this is not the Coliseum and we are not vicious decadent spectators. Furthermore, this is not just for your entertainment like some Hollywood movie. This is real so have some respect for all who have had to pay the ultimate price since 9/11.

Finally, this administration has exercised good judgement and succeeded in many of their goals proving themselves very satisfactorily thus far as they continue to disprove extreme theories, right wing propaganda, wrong economic policies or obstructionist acts that are damaging to our maintenance of a broad based middle class egalitarian society. One cannot succeed with any credibility in this attempt to attack the cautious and curteous decision of a man of real intelligence and integrity, and we have his brilliant Mother to thank for instilling so many of his good character traits, the ambition to work for his dreams, and to achieve them.

Thank goodness he also had the hearts and minds of the majority of American People because they liked his words and he took the time to fully explain what he has wanted to achieve, what he still wants to do, how he intends to do it, and he also respects his fellow Americans enough to address them and keep them up to date on current events, not doing everything hush hush behind closed doors. President Obama is on the side of The People and on the side of history today and he should be fairly appreciated and commended by all good Americans for his good actions.

Greg in Detroit Bush refused to show the caskets of our honored dead returning home. "Nuthin to see here folks". This was to sanitize an unneeded, un-paid-for war, hence anesthetizing public perception. But this is different.

LOL, Bush refused to show the caskets because it made him look bad. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. President Obama refused to show the pictures so as not to ensite people to escalate a situation. The one was wrong, the other right.

where did you prove me wrong Feisty? you cited exactly what I said, all that you cited was basically where if your family member dies the military pays for you to meet their body at Dover. I've been part of the GO/CARE team for every deployment for years, I have the right to tell the media that they're not allowed to take pictures of my husband's casket if God forbid he ever comes home in one.

You said:

This is inaccurate at best Greg- the families didn't want them being photographed and President Bush honored that request.

Which is disingenuous at best...

Photo's were banned by the Pentagon on orders issued by Bush that families MIGHT feel compelled to travel to meet the bodies and not be financially able to do so.

In your comment above you state, the military pays for it!

So which one isn't telling the truth?

Care for some more rope...

Translation: Nobody believes what the feisty redhead says. She probably works for MSNBC. That's why she's always first in the blog.

I've been thinking the same thing. Especially since so many posts that would ordinarily not be collapsed, disappear quickly if they are in contradiction to one of hers. She violated my "teabagger, dummycrat, rethuglican" rule today so I have officially ignored her. I have a feeling my days on newsvine shall be considerably better from here on out.

nppa.org/news_and_events/news/2009/04/dover01.html

DOVER, DE (March 5, 2006) – In the last minutes of Sunday night the media watched as the first flag-draped coffin carrying the body of a fallen American soldier came home to Dover Air Force Base after the Pentagon took action to lift an 18-year ban on covering the country's returning war dead.

With the family's permission, photographers and reporters watched as the body of U.S. Air Force Staff Sgt. Phillip Myers, 30, of Hopewell, VA, in a standard military silver metal coffin covered by a neatly secured American flag, was carried off a military transport aircraft.

Pentagon to pay for families of fallen soldiers to travel to Dover

By: CNN Supervising Producer Adam Levine

WASHINGTON (CNN) – The Defense Department will pay for families of fallen soldiers to travel to Dover Air Force Base to be present for the return of their deceased family member, Defense Secretary Robert Gates announced Wednesday.

The announcement comes as the Pentagon prepares to allow the media to record the return of fallen soldiers from overseas at Dover, if the families of the troops permit it.

The media has been prevented from doing so since 1989.

I may have been wrong about which President created the ban, but I'm not wrong about DOD paying for families to meet their loved ones bodies nor am I wrong about the media being able to photograph without the families permission.

By GH"W" Bush.

Yall are something special, and I do mean special as in special ed.

Lets see here, Obamas reason for not releasing the Photo was because it might insight violence. OK I can understand that, but he has already proven with the release of the Prison Photos a few years ago that he does not CARE about insiting more violence.

Obama is using the SAME EXACT reason, as the GOP was trying to use.

Special Ed Jeremy: The words you are attempting to employ are incite and inciting, not "insight" and "insiting". Who's so special now?.......YOU.

(I see no reason why this comment was collapsed, so here it is again:)

Staggering to think about all the urgent complex issues Obama has faced down since taking office.

Now we must focus on meeting energy challenges and climate change, transitioning to new technologies, repatriating jobs, high tech manufacturing and educating our children.

As far as the B.L. photo, President Obama continues to demonstrate consistent good judgement and good will.

Jeremy

You said, "Lets see here, Obamas reason for not releasing the Photo was because it might insight violence. OK I can understand that, but he has already proven with the release of the Prison Photos a few years ago that he does not CARE about insiting more violence."

The prison photos that showed the mistreatment of Middle East POW's were released during the Bush Administration. In fact, they were released before 2008 while Rummy was still Defense Secretary.

It is also true that George W. Bush not only would not allow the caskets to be photographed, he never went to Dover AFB to honor the fallen military when they arrived from the battlefield.

Don97524,

Do your research, the pictures were released by Obama. In May of 2009 he reveresed his course about releasing the photos saying ( this is where you could of busted me but you went partisan ) they could have chilling effects on future investigations, and they could affect the safety of U.S. troops and "inflame anti-American opinion. PER CNN. http://articles.cnn.com/2009-05-12/politics/prisoner.photos_1_detainees-president-obama-abuse?_s=PM:POLITICS. They were later released.

The difference between today and then.. Obama could of held back on the Photos ( like he is doing now ) but released them anyway. The ACLU was bringing suit to get the pictures released.

As for your last sentance, I am grateful that Bush did not allow the caskets to be photographed. Its nobodys business except the family of the fallen soldier. Let me ask you this.. How many times has your beloved Obama been to Dover to honor thoes same fallen soldiers? To my knowledge he hasn't been at all. more double standard for Don...

The caskets are not identified by name so nobody's privacy is violated. Obama has been to Dover at least once and, obviously, you did not know about it .... that is at least one more time than W.

Perhaps we are talking about different pictures. There were prison torture photos released in approximately 2006.

You people are killing time. Obama refuses to inform Americans. The judicial branch refuses to ask the questions on Americans minds. The press prints what the POTUS wants or gets the silent treatment during press conferences. Every single social security number should be able to vote on every issue. The White House site should be safe enough, considering the amount they spend. But America has to believe some minute allegedly even canvasing. America has become the land of the blind. And we hired a con artist to lead us. WAKE UP!!!!!

On April 28, 2004 -- a year into the American invasion and occupation of Iraq-- CBS' 60 Minutes program broadcast photographs showing American soldiers apparently abusing, humiliating, beating and torturing Iraqi prisoners held at Abu Ghraib prison outside Baghdad.

Low-ranking members of the Army's 372nd Military Police Company took the fall for the abuse, but declassified Bush administration memos since documented the common use of torture methods on prisoners in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay. Fewer than 300 Abu Ghraib photographs were made public in 2004. President Obama promised to disclose all photographs--then reversed himself, lending the torture scandal a new dimension: a cover-up disguised as protection of American servicemen.

Uploaded by TheHaightAshbury on Sep 14, 2009

NEW YORK A federal judge ruled today that graphic pictures of detainee abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison must be released over government claims that they could damage America's image. Last year a Republican senator conceded that they contained scenes of "rape and murder" and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said they included acts that were "blatantly sadistic."

While I generally agree with the decision, I don't think I trust any kind of confirmation from al-queda. Lying about it to hide something about his true condition or whereabouts would not be beyond them. But a public display of photo's is a bad idea. However, it would be nice for those that want to see them, to have access somehow.

I agree that those who wanted to see the photo might have had access. As the Prez said, 'that's not who we are.' However, while I feel a great sense of relief that Bin Laden is gone, there is no real way to sanitize the act of killing or to white-wash the incident in Pakistan.

The din created with the media's over-kill of all of the information pertaining to Bin Laden, along with our favorite players from the Bush administration; namely Cheney, Rumsfeld, & Rice being interviewed ad nauseum, is sickening.

They've had their eight years and while I do believe in freedom of speech, I want them to all go away for there is no way to justify the brutality and 'rendition techniques' that they espoused. Incidentally, havoc was wreaked on scores of innocents who had nothing to do with terrorism in the first place. How have they written that off, or was it expected that there would be collateral damage?

Wouldn't a more peaceful world be lovely, and yes, to all the Mom's out there, Happy Mother's Day!

Noelle-588175

So you would be against the killing of Hitler, Hirohito and Ho Chi Min to name a few? In my view, not all life is sacred. There are men so evil that executing them is the only answer...thus we have capital punishment. These people were tried by historical fact and world opinion and deserved the justice they received..be it self inflicted or not.

While I agree with you Ira, I can understand the spirit of what Noelle is hoping for as we all do, it goes with the saying, "Let there be peace and let it begin with me".

Every society is made up of the Polis, (Greek for population), of the individual citizens of the body politic who must be responsible for their behavior and their own private yard. This is why our forefather's concepts of individual rights was so brilliant. We are all responsible for maintaining decency, and whether white collar or blue, a criminal act is the same. May the good people prevail as in tradition and in the future for the purpose of their own survival. This world is not child safe or mother safe unless we as individuals in cooperation within a peaceful civilized society agree to utilize beneficial power to serve and reward only our best human interests. To reward crime, hypocrisy, contradiction or corruption will always break down a society over time.

What did Ho Chi Min do to you? I would be against killing millions of civilians like the USA has done.

>>>According to U.S. census figures dated 2006, the total U.S. population is 299,398,485 of which 75.4% are 18 or older. This results in a population of approximately 225,746,457 that is 18 years or older.<<<

These people polled 800 people. What a joke. Obama is killing America and we debate in blogs. I am ashamed at America as it bickers while He does whatever he wants without a single answer to US, the USA. Have a nice ride America, do you see the U bend in your near future? Are you too busy spanking each other in blogs? Change government, not each others views about minutia.

Freedom of Information material doesn't apply to anything classified as this is. It would have to be declassified first.

John,

Speaking of the Freedom of Information Act in a non-classified context:

What is to prevent the US public from having access to the names of corporations who funded US midterms last November, eg. the millions spent by the Chamber of Commerce? Following the Supreme Court decision ('Citizens United') unlimited, undisclosed $multi-millions were used to skew our elections in November.

This is a dangerously anti-democratic power given purely to the rich to elect their own and run this country for their own ends.

Please, Obama has a credibility gap wider than the Grand Canyon. Stop pretending to bitch slap each other and realize you, WE are being hosed by the people we hired to run OUR NATION. America is in danger by intolerence since we started, and Obama insinuates we are incapable of being adults!!!! No picture kiddies!!!!

A mere 800 people out of 225 million were asked. Don't any of you think that is a bit shy of weight??????

If you think spewing factoids about some some personal Don Quixote quest on a blog is making a difference, then you are mistaken. We Americans need to change this NOW. One person in 281,250 was asked. How many people voted?????? Do we not each deserve a voice? Computers can do the counting.

Ernest,

We want to protect American troops and ourselves at home from a negative reaction to inflammatory photos. Historically, showing photos has backfired on us. The evidence on BL is out there in triplicate from all sides, and commonsense folks accept that national security is a priority.

If you really want to talk about public disclosure, start with going after the Supreme Court which was dead wrong on "Citizens United". Corporations are not democracies and they are not natural individuals. Corporation X does not have babies or eat ice-cream.

Let us see the names of all who poured the multi-millions of dollars into the last election. What do you think is the purpose of keeping the names of corporate donors a secret?

Then we won't just be talking about freedom. What a concept.

Backhouse, stop changing the topic, although I indirectly agree with you that the Judicial Branch is rife with its own scandals and inneptitude, Obama needs to be forced to reveal to the people that hired him, what was transpired.

Now, after days of mystery, akin to his birth certificate mystery, is the relevation that a FEW people will be able to see data concerning OBL!!!!! America hired the Supreme Civil Servant, and he has kept America out of the loop and uninformed. Obamas decisions are Americas burdon.

No vague references to """a negative reaction to inflammatory photos. Historically, showing photos has backfired on us""" proves anything to me. Thank you for your time.

All you saw was "photos" of 9/11, that never PROVED that Muslims were flying the planes when they hit the Towers. CVR tapes can be faked. FAA tapes can be faked, cell phone calls can be faked.

Picture this, I am still shaking Paul and his stalking stupidity off my waterproof boot. Becca, Gidget and Fishead won't talk (laugh) at you huh?

You will never know what I saw Paul, unless I tell an intelligent person where I was on 9/11 and you read it. So sorry you have to be you, Paul.

Backhouse, are you out there?

If you weren't in the cockpit of either plane, or where I was, it doesn't matter where you were, dumbass. 9/11 was an inside job, covered-up by an impotent investigation, which you fell for.

Ernest, I do hope you're not fake. See how frustrating that comment is? My comment above is much more than 'changing the subject'.

You're putting your energy into something that's in the past, asking if it's fake, when we can expose something that's happening in the present. Left unchecked "Citizen's United" will change the face of America and the global culture, if not exposed for what it is.

"Citizen's United" has long been in the works as part of a chess game to overpower and strip the rights of ordinary citizens to a decent life. Mr. Bush left a time-bomb ready to go off: right wing appointees on the Supreme Court have public links to Koch Brothers. For all to see, they are acting on behalf of big corporations with the goal of handing them control of US elections.

What could be more important than that?

BL is dead and Al Qaeda has admitted it and you're OK with that, right? And by necessity, secretive things were done to realize that. I know you don't like not being 100% informed on such a sensitive matter, but sometimes we have to let go of our ego. Sometimes we cherish fantasies that we deserve special treatment and we may fight for them even though we know they will hurt others.

Paul seems to be suggesting he was in on the inside job now, right in the middle of whatever innuendo he is alluding to, I guess his big win in life is getting the last word. Rah Rah Paul.

Sorry Backhouse, you "KNOW" so I won't have to explain anything. In the meantime, America is racing to the Ubend because nobody clears up your pet peeve? Thanks for the fantasy lesson too. Fact is, now that time has past, the Secret POTUS is allowing a select few to see the photos. But you changed the topic. So I can't talk about that, to YOU!!!!

Ernest is it,,

Just because you're not fake, doesn't mean they are not out to get you.

Ana- well said. What is popular is not always right, and what is right is not always popular. It is a hard idea to live by. Give into peer pressure is always much easier than demonstrating integrity. I am very proud of him.

So sorry AnaB, but I did not ask Obama to treat me like a child and make unilateral decisions to keep my nose clean. I expect the POTUS to answer to me, he is the supreme civil servant, not Americas nanny.

This is sick, from the days of a chicken in every pot to yet another stock market crash and the subsequent pilfering of the American economy to pay the world so they will become democracies.

At best, paying South America to produce oil is just his idea of keeping America cleaner, we won't have the spills that American companies refuse to prepare for because accidents happen. Too many people like Bush sucking on that nipple to make them stop floating yachts in caviar lakes. America the fat cat nation. Make a buck has become tax a nation.

You have been conned with a 1 in 281,000 opinion poll. One big Baptist church could make those numbers in the article. No offense to any religion.

Wake up, you have a unique number, a social security card. Obama can get the real opinions with a web site. But that would make him a servant of the people, exactly what politicians started out as. Not overbearing glory hounds.

Ever notice that war changes civil rules? Of course, the dogs are mean creatures because they're trained to be that way; they aren't chic lapdogs!

Laos Deo--

Your interest in the gruesome depiction of Osama's demise can be satiated by visiting your local video store and renting slasher movies or by simply watching old videos of Palin killing something in Alaska. Most of us do not believe in letting your interest in the macabre slow our progressive stance in the world anymore than we like the way you slow traffic by gawking at the accident scene in the opposing lanes!

I would hope that we are more civilized than the "terroist dogs" that you talk about.

If the reasoning behind not releasing the photos is because of graphic cencorship, that is obviously against the constitution. Not releasing to save american lives makes more sense. Youtube daily has videos that are extremely graphic of Libyan deaths, what is the difference Graphically wise..NONE.

Choices are always slippery slopes. Some choices are good, some bad.

I've seen the footage that the terrorists have made public. That proves how low on the moral totem pole they reside. By releasing these pictures in much the same way as those terrorists release those videos - to inflame our opponent with a "see what we did?" taunt, where do you see us on that totem?

Why doesn't topic comments really deal with subject? We know every other headline in media is started with "Polls tell us". And we suck it all up. Since it was a well known democratic pollster I'm convinced. Wait till next week when you see all the results like what questions were asked, who was asked, when, Polls are the biggest abuse of America's time and the biggest abuse of common sense, I pary people will wake up and use the brain God gave them (or not)

Most people wanted the photos released, and they should have been in order to drive home the reality of what happens to you when you mess with the U.S. Allowing Bin Laden to simply vanish only allows the mysticism to remain. Amazing how many sheep changed their minds to fall in line with Obama after he went against their wishes.

Should the White House release Osama bin Laden’s death photos?

66%

Yes. It will silence conspiracy theories.

83,190 votes

http://www.msnbc.com/id/42873423/ns/world_news-death_of_bin_laden/

Ah, my favorite Palin snuff video. Turkeys being killed behind her while she gave an interview on how much they were having.

Sorry, I just enjoy conspiracy theorist doing their thing. The moment that photo is made available to anyone it is going viral. I'm surprised that only fakes are out now. Wait ! Are they fakes ? Can anyone prove they are fakes ? Somebody may have photo shopped the real one to make it appear fake. Ugg !

Stop bashing each other about what we each want, that is part of America, the right to choose!!!!!!!!!

What percentage of America is 800 people out of 255 million? That is a fair assessment?

America let politicians rape the economy for the rich and we bicker about WHAT?!?!?!?!?! WAKE UP, stop living in Obamas playground!!!!!! This is OUR country that Obama is doling out as he insults our intelligence.

Earnest Lee Saddened

Stop bashing each other about what we each want, that is part of America, the right to choose!!!!!!!!!

Are you serious? The republicans/tea party has taken away any right to choose. The are dictating.

LOL America is now a dictatorship because of Which party? Repubs or a brand new party??? Time for me to cry in a corner according to the "Word of Fletch". Maybe you want to kill democracy, I want to kill Obamas run of silence and get real answers, not your rhetoric. Type something useful.

Feisty,

Lack of public education is the key to a plutocracy! Corporations know this and are purchasing policitians (Republicans) to see this demise of education through so they can turn us into a third world nation they can push around. Wake up America.

and working for minimum wage. the republican party is the party of 3 G's: guns, god, and greed. three groups that only have one thing in common: they vote together to achieve their own narrow agendas. the god people don't even care if they're helping corporations rip them off as long as that congressman taking in the kickbacks votes for pro life agendas . and the same goes for the gun paranoids, and all the while the rich get richer.

Lack of public education is the key to a plutocracy!

Which is why we MUST keep this charade in the spolight!

Wake up America.

Before it's too late!

Enjoy your Mothers Day AB! ;o)

seems to me the worst education systems in the biggest cities are controlled by a Democrat majority. Who really wants to keep the people in their control and under their system?

Best & Worst Public School Systems:

WORST:

MO - AZ - OR -MT - SD - NE - MS - ID - NV - DC

Best:

AR - WV - GA - PA - OH - NJ - VA - NY - MA - Maryland

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.walletpop.com%2Fphotos%2Fbest-and-worst-public-school-systems-in-us%2F&ei=UMDGTZjjCIXu0gGKp9iqCA&usg=AFQjCNFz2o05KC6_4fOaEpu5UyXiMKhPOQ

So - you were saying?

Apparently Gavin hasn't heard of "Texas style" textbooks ... creationist agendas and religious leaning curricula overwhelmingly appear in Republican controlled districts. Yeah, that's the way to compete on the global stage ... teach our kids to ignore science and just fall into step with the ideology of the ignorant (sieg heil!)

gavin probably gets news from fox. you no the network that reports what the others won't. probably because its not true.

Clearly Feisty and AnnaBanana you have zeroed in on the problem.

Another pillar of an informed, motivated public is obviously the Unions. America is not smart enough to understand the importance of Unions to American society,.... but the GOP sure is.

Unions became the #1 priority target of the GOP campaign to destroy the Middle Class!!

Union destruction is priority 1.

If there were ever a clearer indicator as to what we ought to be protecting, that would be it.

PROTECT WHAT YOUR ENEMY DEEMS IMPORTANT!!!

Best & Worst Public School Systems:

WORST:

MO - AZ - OR -MT - SD - NE - MS - ID - NV - DC

Best:

AR - WV - GA - PA - OH - NJ - VA - NY - MA - Maryland

NICE HEAD SHOT FEISTY!!!

AnaBanana-1782128

Feisty,

Lack of public education is the key to a plutocracy! Corporations know this and are purchasing policitians (Republicans) to see this demise of education through so they can turn us into a third world nation they can push around. Wake up America.

Not to worry. I can guarantee you that we progressives have thoroughly dominated the education sector. We have the public schools and the universities. We also have the news media and the blogosphere. Hence, we shape public opinion and public discourse in the fashion that serves our agenda.

Keep in mind that large corporations are also donating big money to Democrats (look at Obama's campaign contributors) so they are not against our agenda, but are actually participating in it.

We are using the education system to shape our young people to our agenda, which is to foster a belief in social justice, and mistrust and repulsion of the capitalist system which has raised the standard of living for so many that they become complacent and ignore the problems of the poor. We will reduce the economy of the first world to be nearer that of the third world and this will be a major step closer to global equality.

Ok, I assume this is supposed to be satirical rantings of a phoney "progressive" right? Progressives "have" the media? Rupert Murdoch doesn't (yet) own every media outlet...but between he and GE, and the large money it takes to operate media conglamorates, I don't think the "progressive voice" is in any danger of dominating anytime soon. Using the education system to thwart free enterprise? with school boards ilike those in Texas and Kansas rewriting history textbooks and ignoring science to placate ignorant bible-thumpers? What you don't seem to grasp is the real danger to American competitiveness is ignorance--the kind of ignorance that assumes the rest of the world is standing still so we can ignore them, and that this is still the world of the 1950's where we only compete with ourselves, and that we can continue to stay out ahead while we now graduate only about a third of our adults to function in highly skilled jobs.

fiesty - et al with regards to k-12 education. If the constant increases in funding towrds k-12 education is so great, why do we show a continued decline in rankings with the rest of the world?

To date, only yellowdog mark and anna molly have shed any reasonable light on why this is occuring. The basics are that the k-12 system is broken and just throwing more money at it, won't fix it.

As pointed out on "singapore sessions" on bloomberg tv hosted by Charlie Rose the fundamental consensus was that Asia and parents were more supportive of creating good fundamental education for the kids.

The other item that some brought up about the American k-12 system was that while the republicans want to make cuts, the democrats want to spend more money on a broken k-12 system.

With respect to reseach colleges it seems that the US has 35 of the top 50 international research institutions that many foriegn students study at and get their advanced degrees from.

AP-1414066

As far as the news media goes, it looks to me like the leftists dominate it anyway. Pretty much every news outlet but Fox caters to the leftist perspective disguised as "hard news". Fox news (that leftists just hate) actually has frequent segments that allow a liberal AND a conservative to argue topics from their perspective. The fact that leftists hate that so much tells me that they want news to present ONLY their perspective, and they want it presented as the ONLY perspective that exists.

The education system is going down hill so badly, despite the HUGE amounts of money thrown at it, is that they stopped TEACHING REAL ACADEMICS and instead turned schools into Marxist indoctrination camps. When black or Hispanic students didn't test into the desired range, the tests were altered to make them easier to pass in the name of "fairness" and excluding "cultural bias" in pursuit of the "social justice" philosophy of "equality of outcome". In other words, if you can't raise the low scoring students to the level of the high scoring students, lower the expectations to make them all APPEAR EQUAL. Thus, in the name of a false ideology, these people have ruined our education system. But that's not all, they also wanted to rid the schools of supporting patriotism, so they began pressure to stop the pledge of allegiance in the name of separation of church and state

Students now learn of how the founders were "hypocrites" and "racists" and thus, American law can and should be changed to allow socialistic reforms to ensure the redistribution of wealth, and racist policies that place White Americans, who have harmed no one, at an unfair disadvantage in college admissions, government contracts and loans, and hiring in private industries in order to give blacks, Hispanics and others an advantage in the name of.... "fairness".

We now have a president who travels around the world apologizing for America's "arrogance", after spending 20 years in a"church" where the "reverend" shouts "GOD DAMN AMERICA" and "the white man is the devil" to a sympathetic audience. We wonder why our country is in steep decline?

Hey Greg you proud that 47% of Detroiters can't read?

Proud2b,

You just described Socialism. Are you saying Progressivism is Socialism?

"We are using the education system to shape our young people to our agenda, which is to foster a belief in social justice, and mistrust and repulsion of the capitalist system which has raised the standard of living for so many that they become complacent and ignore the problems of the poor. We will reduce the economy of the first world to be nearer that of the third world and this will be a major step closer to global equality."

3WolvesandaMoon - Proud2b, You just described Socialism. Are you saying Progressivism is Socialism?

Are you saying "progressivism" is NOT socialism? From everything I've seen, including posts from those who call themselves "progressives" and communist NUTCASES like Proud 2b liberal, it IS the same thing, only "progressives" use more veiled language and euphemisms to describe their agenda.

If the shoe fits...

machinehead: Look beyond the surface. Who OWNS the media you watch? If all you pay attention to are those paid for their partisan opinions (FOX or MSNBC) than you're just in an echo chamber, where you hear your views spat back to you. That feels good but it hardly increases your real understanding. You have to consume a variety of media and media with a reputation for factual reporting to get something approaching some balance, and that is surely not FOX, (just because the occasional progressive gets chewed up on air). No, our educational system is not "going down hill so badly" despite "huge" monies thrown in, just because some districts are. You're missing the larger picture. We're still graduating more high schoolers than we ever have, and that's despite huge DEFICITS--remember schools are locally funded--just like they were in the red school house days--Federal dollars try to make up for some of that through programs like head start, but it's hardly able to right the balance in many areas hit by huge STATE deficits.

If you want students to learn more--give them more national standards, and take away some of the local control over things like text books--so that Texas students aren't prevented from learning about Jefferson and Kansas students aren't prevented from learning about science in the name of "balance" and a nod to fundamentalists. You obviously have no kids in the current public schools, or that nonsense about learning founders were 'racists' would be more obvious to you--and you would have some grasp of the national standards (Bush's leave no child) that are now in place. I guess you've been missing the whole debate about how many districts in exactly the places you'd guess are struggling to meet those standards which have NOT been lowered (and I'd urge you to get a 9th grade standardized test in reading or math to test just how easily YOU could pass them).

The REAL trick is getting more Americans through college. We cannot remain competive if we have to have the Microsofts of our country IMPORT enough software engineers because they can't find them here. (That's US based, so this is not about paying them LESS...in fact these folks cost MORE.) While conservatives whine about immigrants taking away the lowest paying jobs available--the skilled labor is passed them by because too few Americans are qualified (fewer than 30% graduate with even a 4-year degree in this country.)

So while you live in the past with that nonsense of a preacher the President rejected so you can feel better about your sky is falling diatribes--the rest of us are focused on reality--Keeping this country moving forward with real ideas, and ignoring all of this endless whining from the losing side that says we can't and shouldn't do it as long as there's a president in office they don't like.

american-2051576

fiesty - et al with regards to k-12 education. If the constant increases in funding towrds k-12 education is so great, why do we show a continued decline in rankings with the rest of the world?

One word - parents.

I work in public education (although not as a teacher) and startlingly amount of parents say "My kid wouldnt do that" and would rather chew out a teacher than give their kids the ass beating they deserve.

When parents start parenting again - you will see our education ranking start to rise.

machinehead

Are you saying "progressivism" is NOT socialism? From everything I've seen, including posts from those who call themselves "progressives" and communist NUTCASES like Proud 2b liberal, it IS the same thing, only "progressives" use more veiled language and euphemisms to describe their agenda.

So your sample for defining what socio-political philosophies are posts on this message board?

When parents start parenting again - you will see our education ranking start to rise.

***STANDING O*** Mike!

Greg - isn't it a same that it is conservatives in charge of the Detroit schools?

Isn't it a shame that it is the very conservative UAW that controls all that Detroit labor?

Greg, isn't Detroit just a shame?

AP-1414066-You have to consume a variety of media and media with a reputation for factual reporting to get something approaching some balance...

Which is exactly what I do, and why I understand what the agenda of the "progressives".

So while you live in the past with that nonsense of a preacher the President rejected so you can feel better about your sky is falling diatribes--the rest of us are focused on reality--Keeping this country moving forward with real ideas, and ignoring all of this endless whining from the losing side that says we can't and shouldn't do it as long as there's a president in office they don't like.

You had better wake up! You can sling insults about someone saying "the sky is falling" when what they are actually doing is alerting people to the REAL threats to this country and our way of life posed by the America-hating flag-burners on the left and the complicit wimps on the right.

What exactly ARE those "real" ideas you leftists have - growing government size and scope to micromanage the lives of citizens, redistribute wealth from those who earn it to those who vote DEMOCRAT, raising the debt ceiling and printing more money to cover the IMMENSE COST of it all and devalue our Dollars, protecting the "rights" of ILLEGAL ALIENS to be in this country and cover the cost of their health care, education, housing and incarceration, raise taxes on the businesses that provide jobs encouraging them to move overseas and weaken our economy? Well, you can tell the broke future generations that you were all so "compassionate" and "anti-racist"and that's what they deserve.

As far as whining about a president you don't like, NO ONE has whined, criticized and slandered a president worse than the leftists did when G.W, Bush was in office. I wasn't Bush fan either, but there is no comparison to the vitriol that the left spews when they are against something. Period.

Machinehead: That last paragraph is crap and you know it. I was around to hear the utter filth and lies that the right wing republicans heaped on every democrat who stuck their head out of the trench. Vitriol? Please! Here, I'll just name a few. What's your honest reaction? Ted Kennedy. The right called him everything from a murderer to a coward. Bill Clinton? Vitriol? No, the southern republicans did everything to destroy him. They called him a murderer as well. The republicans like to accuse their opponents of freakin' MURDER. John Kerry? Every lie, the dirtiest lies they heaped on Kerry.

So save me your whiny crap about the vitriol from the left that poor Georgie Bush had to endure. I thought that at every turn the left pulled their punches on this twit.

Hey Greg you proud that 47% of Detroiters can't read?

Nope.

You one of them 3 Wolves?

Isnt it possible that all the SOL testing our children go through is responsible for the increased cost and the decline in education of our children. My children went through school during the height of "no child left behind" and they basically memorized for these tests, no critical thinking is taught anymore.

And we have another winner in mike -416. yes parents can make a difference, a Big difference. The same "singapore sessions" I referenced discribed how the Japanese parents took a proactive role in the kids education. Anna molly made a point about having to provide security within the schools that took $$$ away from the classroom. Whatever happened to parental and school discipline?

Why do we need both a federal department of education AND state departments of education? Can't we drastically downsize the federal dept of education into only creating a standard fundamental educational syllabus for all the states to follow as well as allowing the states to interject local history into their programs as well as to have private/home schooled kids to have optional studies as well.

Amazing, now I have opinions from at least three individuals on what is wrong with k-12 education and not one of them really requires more $$$ to fix our declining rankings.

Yes, AP!!! You have a good point in that we are getting too focused on the big business aspect of higher education - it is obvious in that tuition's are higher for international students and so to meet the quota...and keep everything afloat, our universities are getting more and more expensive. We need to give our own local kids a break and keep our public junior and state colleges thriving! We need to pardon old student loans with sky high built up interest that are dead for some ten plus years beyond the statute of limitations and help grown ups get better credit so that we can get them employed again so that they can become better consumers to get this economy moving again and we need to actually help high ability high school students get into the Universities that offer the best major program for them.

Great Britain gives its higher education opportunities to its citizens for practically free because they know it is one of their greatest resources! Some things like basic health and education are beyond profit motive and petty partisan ideologies. Trade and tech. schools and apprenticeships are also always conveniently available and interesting field and youth projects.

We need to provide our own working citizens with a fair shot at employment in our own country to provide for our people by training them up NOW!!! Get over the profit motive greed and let off on some of those beautification projects to impress! Get down to earth by offering more grants and scholarships based on merit to local homegrown students, actually putting the money toward getting the real smart work done on the cutting edge of research for the discovery of solutions and cures for the future by getting our young talented innovative Americans in so that we can stay a step ahead of the illnesses and problems that have always and will always arise to snap at the heels of our survival.

It is simply defeatist to work against our own best accomplishments and from today on, those accomplishments are achieved by the young and able bodied that need to know how to apply the expertise in whatever posts they shall work as their careers. We are in a time of change and we need to know real solutions and new definitions for best practices of living to sustain our lives and our children and their children's quality of living into the future. The Bush excuse of "We'll all be dead anyway" does not cut the mustard but the "to ourselves and our posterity" in the Preamble does and always has.

Greg,

Well at least you answered the question, which by the way is surprising. Ha, am I one of them?? That's funny, you can't pay me enough to live in that hell hole. What do you think of Bloomberg saying that all immigrants should move to Detroit? That's a hoot!!

"Nope."

"You one of them 3 Wolves?"

Feisty, I live in one of the states from your link and the problem with education is not legislation. Here in Missouri in the two largest cities most of the children go to private Catholic schools. Almost every single time a bond issue or tax increase is on the ballot to help the public school system it fails. I can't tell you the number of times I have heard my neighbors say they already pay enough in private school tuition and they do not want tax increases that help public schools.

The issue is about what we are willing to accept on FAITH. The congress exists partly so that our representatives can be shown information in a secure setting and report back to us, what they have come to understand from that secure information.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But Paul, seems to me that would require you to have faith that your representatives are telling you the truth. Or do you believe that politicians never lie? (I know you don't, simply a rhetorical question).

Ok, then put your faith in Al Quaida. They know he's dead too.

Is this really so difficult? You have a public hearing where someone is lying about, or misstating what they have or haven't seen will be shown up by another Representative who refutes or rebuts the claim. What they are discussing or debating then becomes an issue to be resolved in court, given that one is slandering the other. People will then be put under oath to resolve the discrepency. Or, knowing they don't want to be put through that, everyone makes an effort to stick with the facts and the TRUTH. I have Faith in the adversarial legal system which accepts crossexamined testimony while under oath and penalty for perjury. Everything else, including the Keane/Zelikow 9/11 Commission, is very likely a dog and pony show.

How would Al Qaeda KNOW he was dead and not just captured or in our protective custody?

Obama is not a religious leader. America did not hire him for faith based governing. His bible is that PART of 800 people, out of 255 million stating he was right to call us ball spiking imbeciles!!!!!!

EACH American is entitled to voice his opinion to the supreme civil servant. But Obama shuts us down with an insult. Now count all the times he has SILENTLY presided over us. NO CAMERAS!!! NO ANSWERS!!! I am OBAMA Americas MOMMA!!!!

Paul is still trying to corner the market on the Official Osama Death Photo Storefront deal, and Obama is still laughing as you people debate Paul instead of reaming Obama for the scams he HAS pulled. Keep clueing each other into opinions as we swirl to the U bend.

I disagree. If that was the reason, then Obama would have cared about the troops when he demanded Abu Grab pics be released.

Two faced, forked tongue in it for himself POS.

3rdpartyadvocate--

You are what those of us in the law refer to as an Exhibit--an exhibit in the long list of evidentiary proof of the sheer ignorance, stupidity and aversion to facts that passes for sanity in the modern-day Republican Tea Party. Original Abu Ghraib photos were released in the BUSH administration. Additional photos depicting abuse were scheduled for release in 2009 and although Obama initially agreed to release them, he recanted after seeing the graphic images and being strongly cautioned by the military. So, the FACT is, that contrary to your fabricated BS, Obama never released any Abu Ghraib pics. At least Obama still has face. Yours however remains undiscernible given that it remains obscured in the deep recesses of Limbaugh's nether orifice!

Mad,

Who released those photos? It wasn't the government it was the media. The Government even asked the media not to and they did anyways.

The Abu Garab scandal happened under Commander in Chief Bush, not Obama. Such short selective memories the GOP has.

You missed the point there Spicy, Senator Obama wanted them released.

You also have selective listening and have missed the point there 3Wolves. Obama changed his mind after being cautioned and informed by the military as explained factually above by MadinCt.

"Additional photos depicting abuse were scheduled for release in 2009 and although Obama initially agreed to release them, he recanted after seeing the graphic images and being strongly cautioned by the military. So, the FACT is, that contrary to your fabricated BS, Obama never released any Abu Ghraib pics."

Correction Rumsfeld SoD.

So because we "ENDANGERED" the troops over Abu Ghrab, you think we should do it again over Usama bin Laden? Doesn't sound like you care about our troops safety after all.

FYI my grandson was IN IRAQ when Obama called for those ABU GRAB pics to be released. Where were you? In mommy's basement?

And NO I never said they should be released now so stop putting words into my mouth like a dem lemming.

I am merely pointing out that Obama does not care about the troops over freaking pictures, PERIOD.

3rd party:

abu graib was a disgraceful incident of abuse of power ... it NEEDED to be uncovered. If your grandson is any kind of honorable troop at all , he KNOWS that. Bin Laden's death photos aren't evidence of any such thing except in the minds of the tin foil hat club. It's apples and oranges ... but then, your agenda doesn't really have anything to do with troop safety. does it? Your history of posts shows clearly that you will spin ANYTHING negatively against Obama, no matter the consequences. It's that tactic that is rapidly costing the Right any credibility with mainstream, centrist Americans.

3rdparty:

All you are pointing out, is how much you hate Obama(and your willingness to spew false info).

Obama didn't release those pics. Rumsfield worked for the Bush Admin., not the Obama Admin.

3rdparty - and where were you when your grandson was fighting? Better yet, what branch of military did you serve in seeing as you are obviously such a superior and brave person?

Your generation is a tiresome and self absorbed generation. Your generation has been left behind by the freight train that is technological advancement and you all are standing on the brake hoping to stop us, or turn us around so you can feel relevant again. You'll stall this entire nation just to feel "comfortable and safe" for the remainder of your life, and leave the mess for your children and grandchildren.

mzthai,

You didn't make any sense at all. I think the mess our kids and grandchildren will face already happened from the mistakes from the last 5 years.

What branch did you serve in again if you want to go that road?

Yea Fox reports what ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC omits to tell you. I guess you just want some version of all the news or not reported at all. Hum?

Is this what you're referring to?

Fox has exploited the death of Osama bin Laden to attack the "cowardly public school system," by seizing on a video of American teenagers who appeared unsure about who bin Laden was. As Media Matters has previously documented, Fox routinely finds any excuse to attack teachers, public schools and teachers' unions.

http://www.google.com/search?q=fox+news+lies&hl=en&prmd=ivnsu&source=univ&tbm=nws&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=D77GTebxGObg0QGJqYXxBw&ved=0CEoQqAI

FUX NEWS is right wing opiniontainment, not real news reporting...

Only the most gullible and uneducated buy the "Fair and Balanced" or "We report, you decide" tag lines.

"We report, you decide" tag lines.

Directed at the old white guy in the Barco-Lounger, wearing his tin foil hat, sratching his belly & pounding Schlitz, while waiting for his sheets to dry...

You can call it an attack. But facts are funny things. They are true. What part of that don't you understand?

3rdpartyadvocate

Yea Fox reports what ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC omits to tell you. I guess you just want some version of all the news or not reported at all. Hum?

.............................................................................

You do realize that Shep Smith reports the news. Hannity and O'Reilly and Beck are OPINION shows...not news. Shep reorts the news straight..same as all the other channels..and he's good at it. The rest is OPINION and not fact.

Yes I know Ira but if was refernced by

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Fox News report the News all right HA!! Telling us that Obama went to school where they train jihadists. CNN had that bit of News fact checked.....It was false.

Fox News "We have a tape showing that Shirley Sherrod is a racist for treating a white farmer unfairly by not helping him save his farm." CNN fact checked...It was false.

Fox News anchor Jon Scott reports Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords (D AZ) was killed by an unknown assailiant in her district in Tuscon, Az. CNN T.J. Holmes reports that she had been shot and is in serious condition. Other reports stating a different outcome were false and we are sorry you were misinformed.

Not only we were misinformed but Fox News doesn't have the common decency to apologize when they were wrong. CNN seems to have enough time to report the whole story. ie Madrassah, Shirley Sherrod both non-stories.

We report you decide?

Well, Dunnie, I guess its another case of "I dunno" since there have been no answers to your factual comment! Funny how you can always see the places where they get silenced because they know they are absolutely factually wrong and disproven. Typical faux material. LOL!!!

I'm sure it has been said before in this thread but I believe it cannot be stated too often: If you are looking for facts don't bother looking to Fux. They are the propaganda arm of the right wing of the republicon party.

AMEN Tommy!

Why did you omit what O'Reilly said? Afraid to tell everyone O'Reilly disagreed with Beck and said he thought Obama at ground zero was fine because it brought attention back to the victims famlies that have suffered?

Talk about lying via omission. Just like all the *Obama* state run media. Omit anything that helps ones you dislike.

3rdpartyadvocate

Why did you omit what O'Reilly said?

------------------------------------------

Cause I was talking about BECK. Not FOX news. Not O'Reilly. I wasn't crticizing anyone BUT Beck. To his credit, O'Reilly disagreed, but this was NOT about him. this was about the vitriol that Beck continually spouts. Read the post before you go into that right wing rant about Obama state run media.

Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly debated President Obama's trip to Ground Zero during the weekly "At Your Beck And Call" segment on O'Reilly's Friday show.

Debated being the keyword. How does one person have a debate?

As for the Obama state run media. What else can you call it? If not for FoxNews, many truths would not be told as it would tarnish your messiah Obama. This is why Obama himself has bashed Fox.

When asked why they don't report info that hurts Obama and dems, most other *main stream media* answers * they didn't find it to be newsworthy.*

I say, report it all and let ME decide if it's news worthy.

3rdpartyadvocate

Debated being the keyword. How does one person have a debate?

----------------------------------------------------------------

First it was a conversation on a regular segment on O'Reilly and not a debate.

Stop moving the goal posts, I was talking about BECK.. just BECK.

Again, the news is basically the same. You keep talking about opinion shows.

I didn't bring up the word debate. You did.

And I don't agree with Beck or you but I would fight to the death for your and Becks right to say it and believe it. Semper Fi.

How about you?

3rdpartyadvocate..

And I don't agree with Beck or you but I would fight to the death for your and Becks right to say it and believe it. Semper Fi.

..................................................

On this we totally agree. Uuuhhhhrrraaa!

3rdpartyadvocate..

...and thank your grandson for his service.

It's kind of mind-boggling that anyone- even the teabagging goosesteppers- would use the term " Obama state run media" given the free pass that our fascists in the previous administration received from the so-called "liberal media". If they were liberal, they would have been all over Boy George. They were not. Excepting Faux, I am convinced that most major news services attempt to present news in a fair, objective manner. It is absurd to the max to suggest that Obama controls the media after the bush atrocities. Really...is this the best you can do?

Thomas Blue..

Do you remember that the Bush White House was feeding talking points DIRECTLY to Fox. Talk about state run media.

Ira

Give some CREDITABLE PROOF of your statement.

slodon..

Per Scott McClellan, former Bush Press Secretary:

Former White House Press Secretary Scott McCllan (2003–2006) for President George W. Bush stated on July 25, 2008, that the Bush White House routinely gave talking points to Fox News commentators — but not journalists — in order to influence discourse and content.^[78] McClellan stated that these talking points were not issued to provide the public with news, but were issued to provide Fox News commentators with issues and perspectives favorable to the White House and Republican Party.

slodon..

I should add that Fox never denied the statement but clarified it stating that none of the talking points were ever given to Hannity or O'Reilly.

And remember that guy James Guckert, the fake journalist, and male prostitute that Bush employed in his news conferences to deflect and defuse "challenging" questions? Remember how he had "minders" lead Liberal news agencies out the door at his press conferences? Remember how he had "Free Speech Zones" for people that may have given him actual questions?

This was the "perception management" that Reagan started. Woulda' made Joseph Goerbells, and Albert Speer proud.

well girls, sounds more like politics as usual from both sides of the aisle. Looks like any type of common ground will be hard to find.

Greg,

I looked up what you posted about this guy James Guckert, I see again you're posting wrong information. He was "Employed" by Bush. I had to look it up due to the fact 99% of the material you post is false. Thanks for the good laugh, you're no better than this James guy.

3Wuffies&damoon

I looked up what you posted about this guy James Guckert, I see again you're posting wrong information. He was "Employed" by Bush.

Fortunately my search engines are a little less biased than yours. There are 6.1 billion human inhabitants on this planet, and only one of them doesn't know about the fake plant Bush used in his news conferences. Liberals to the rescue again.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Gannon

I know you got it set to monitor responses to you "posts", so here ya' go Wolfie-boy.

I assume they were released for the obvious reason of showing the raid actually did happen (else how would we have those), since he wasn't going to release the photos of the body. They also help paint the picture of a somewhat less than mythical leader (rehearsing his lines, looking bored and very, very human).

Why is ok for us to see our dead soldiers

You got a souce or a link for that?

I've never seen US 'dead soldiers' - hell, under 'W' you weren't even allowed to see their coffins coming home!

FORWARD OBSERVER,

“when he pushes his agenda against the will of the people” Do you mean like the Paul Ryan fix for Medicare that more people are against than were against HCR but the Republican controlled House passed with only 3 republicans voting against it?

How about the fact that the Ryan plan also has an individual mandate just like many people are against in the Affordable Care Act?

You only need to watch a few documentaries on the wars. You wont see them on a regular broadcast channel as they are graffic and if you do those parts would be cut out. Still you can watch all you want and NOTHING will compare to being there in the mix. Reguardless, there is no convincing the fools that blindly follow obama.

You get one vote like everyone else.

Its funny to watch people that instead of answering the direct question or comment on it, they twist it and try and confuse the issue by stating what the opposition did. What the heck does Ron Paul have to do with what Forward Observer was stating...I guess since you cant argue the truth, you will find your own to present..ROFL...

Sorry bud, but I have to raise the B.S. flag. I challenge you to provide an official government source that provides graphic photos of dead American soldiers.

I'm not a big supporter of President Obama, but I get tired of seeing these same "will of the people" statements made over and over. That "healthcare bill" was a key piece of President Obama's campaign, and in case you don't know, he won the election. You should remember that just because you and your friends share opinions, you don't represent "we the people."

It would be so refreshing if the people who dislike or disagree so strongly with our president could make rational and articulate arguments with a basis in true facts instead of constantly repeating the same spin over and over.

FORWARD OBSERVER (13F10)

obama is more of a dictator then a leader working for we the people when he pushes his agenda against the will of the people. That healthcare bill is a prime example of going against the will of the people, and by allowing the bill to pass without those voting on it to even have time to read it shows he doesn't put we the people who are paying him for all his vacations first.

I do see that you work for the GOP. But what and who are the "people"? I suppose if you are not a republican you are not considered "people" therefore your will does not count.

The Republicans are doing the "will of the people" by blocking and saying no to everything, while pushing for more government in our lives. They want the government to put a cot in all our bedrooms, stomp on women and their rights, support rapists, by changing the definition of rape. A woman has to prove that she was beaten to claim rape. I guess it's the "will of the men"and they are the only ones that are "people". The Republicans want to tell you who to sleep with and who your "family" should be. They also insist that every child should be born, but they want to get rid of everything in place to take care of the child. They also blocked the jobs bill and are supporting those that eliminate jobs. It's the "so be it" bill.

Can you tell me what Obama did that is against the will of the people? Also can you please tell me what he did to be called a dictator? It can't be healthcare because the people I know support it, plus that was the platform he ran on and won. So it has to be the fact that he doesn't support the Republicans agenda and they must be the only "people" that matters.

I suppose its okay for the GOP run house, to work one week and take two weeks vacation. Did you check the house agenda to see how many vacations they took since they were sworn in? Oh but I forgot, Obama is not entitled to vacations, just all the other presidents. My bad.

fletch - seems that obama and the senate are doing quite well at being the new party of NO.

Dennis - whatever happened to obama saying he would consider cuts in taxes as long as they were revenue neutral? (ref his 2011 state of the union speech)

As for ryans medicare plan, doesn't it address reducing debt via a long term plan? How does obamas plan of controlling health care costs appeal to you? Has any type of government controlled wage and price plan ever worked as intended? Or even trying to control waste and fraud?

Do you really want to debate the equivalence of the HCR acts "individual mandate" with ryans voucher plan or am I misreading your inference?

Taking bets on if obama gets re-elected he will be raising taxes across the board?

No matter how many no's they have said, its nothing compared to the GOP/Teaparty.

If and when Obama and the Senate said no it's with the country in mind. The GOP?Teaparty said no even to their own bills, in an effort to make Obama a one term President. Forget the American People then.

Yes Fletch, its power to the people of the Power Elite who say, we can't keep all the life boats afloat for all of you out there. We just have to cut a few ropes and put it in God's hands, therefore washing their hands of the whole responsibility of being a human citizen of an ongoing egalitarian society by excercising some loyalty and giving back a little in employing their own fellow citizens who need to create enterprise for the citizens at home. They, the "People" of the Power Elite, take care of their own...the rest of those poor little underlings eat cheap day old cake I guess...? So where are the American People then? hmmm.

Seem to recall that it was libs who consider themselves the "power elite". Guess I forgot that it is private sector business and private sector business alone that creates the revenue thru jobs, taxes and fees to keep the government operational.

I agree!

If that's what it would take to give them the closure necessary, then by all means they should have the opporunity, if that's what they wish to do.

What about all are DEAD soldiers families? what about we the people that are footing the bill? Why is it ok for us to see sadam hussans neck get streached to the point it got ripped open on video?. What is wrong with closure for all americans?.

Excellent point FO, why the change of heart. This is wrong in more ways than I can count.

I don't read anything from the famlies of the dead clamoring for graphic photos so they can have "closure". In fact, I read quite the opposite. Knowing he's gone is enough.

FORWARD OBSERVER (13F10)

Why is it ok for us to see sadam hussans neck get streached to the point it got ripped open on video?

Who showed that video? The only person interested in saddam was Bush. I did not think it was okay and did not watch.

AP: Why do you keep using the term "KNOWING" when the context of what you are writing indicates that the word you should be choosing is BELIEVING? Usama's being dead is an unproven allegation. That's a fine thing if you want to believe the allegation to be true, but it doesn't make it a FACT.

Yellowcake from NIGER, please. "Now is not the time",,,"Nothing to be Gained",,,,,,"No Need to Know".....etc.

How many platitudes are you going to regurgitate to try to justify the witholding of truth?

The pictures don't need to be RELEASED in any kind of broadcasting way. The evidence of Usama's death should be available for viewing by all American citizens at hundreds of secure locations around our country.

Agreed. Just like all the ghouls and idiots who demanded Abu Grab pics be released. They sure cared about the troops back then now didn't they?

Hypocrits. The lot of them all.

wally-3443424

How sad that Donald Trump missed his chance to put bin Laden on Celebrity Apprentice.

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He got "fired" at the Trump Pakistan mansion.

Your holding tank is full OUTHOUSE.

Forward Observer (13F10),

Further to your missive of May 8th which has come to attention,

That would be Backhouse to you.

Your holding tank is full OUTHOUSE.

At least he knows how to post an intelligent and mature opinion. Notice he didn't insult anyone or resort to name-calling to make his point. Which reminds me, what is your point? If you want to be taken seriously, you probably should work on your debating skills.

Debating skills, English skills, spelling skills and so on. The name calling is just natural.

Sadly they hand their liberty over on a silver platter. American freedom is almost a myth.

I served 26 years in the military, William. I do not "deserve to know all," and neither do you. I don't waste my time chasing conspiracy theories and becoming outraged over things that don't matter. Why do you feel the need to know all? This isn't "Faces of Death;" just what will showing you the photos accomplish? And instead of saying that you are a taxpayer and that you have the right, tell me exactily what showing the photos to you will contribute to our nation.

Dave-2550157
Big deal, I served for 24 years, what does that have to do with this subject. Show the dam pictures, and stop trying to be an elitist!

Make the Proof of Usama's death available to interested parties. It should not be broadcast. If you care enough to get up off your ass and go see the evidence, it should be made available to citizens.

I am so sick of the damned birthers, the damned conspiracy theory crazies, and the damned, silly bastards who are still trying to play juvenile shock games with the press saying they don't believe anything. They want facts. It's NOT facts they want. They've been hit over the head with facts and they still believe Obama was not born in the US., or that there was no moon landing, or that the sun revolves around the earth, or that Jesse James and Billy the Kid are not buried in their respective marked graves, or that Lee Harvey Oswald did not kill John F Kennedy. The rational, sane, world is not going to convince these sick bastards of anything. Facts mean nothing to them; they have a mental problem which they have chosen to ignore. They know the Truth, and no one else does. How do they know??? Well, two of the most popular they say are God and the Aliens. So, how do you respond to that??!!?? Let's stop answering their rants and realize what we're dealing with.

They know the truth that the PROOF has never been provided. To believe otherwise is an admission of insanity.

Now if you want to argue that National Security secrets negate the public's right to see the PROOF, then you are admitting that the government was actively involved in taking advantage of its ability to hide its own crimes through classification, with JFK, MLK, RFK, the USS LIBERTY, 9/11, JFKjr......................................................................

You comment shows how ignorant and "dumbed down" you are. Most people realize their is no legitimate reason to release the photos.

daniel-3443454..

I do not think the % of people who actually believe what this and all of the major media reports is anywhere near 52% or 2/3's...

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Let's start with the I do not believe. The FACTS are not subjective. I don't care what YOU do not believe. Back it up with facts.

What part of he's dead and both his family and Al-Queda acknowleges this fact don't you get?

Question, if Bush said it would you believe it?

daniel-3443454

What nonsense!... if this story is true.... and I highly doubt it!!! ... this would prove how ignorant and "dumbed down" these "approval people" are!!! I do not think the % of people who actually believe what this and all of the major media reports is anywhere near 52% or 2/3's...

I suppose we could say the same about the healthcare bill????...this would prove how ignorant and "dumbed down" these "disapproval people" are!!.....

He doesn't listen or do for the American people. why would he listen for what they wanted this time. Make the people feel that their vote counts,,,,,,,,,,,,,,thats as good as it gets ......