Can anyone imagine Tim Pawlenty or Sarah Palin taking care of 'unfinished' business the way OUR President did? LMAO!

Basically, they call up and say we found him, we can take him out - what do you want to do? Drop a bomb that is a bad idea, send the SEALs in to get him, or let him go.

And you don't you think Sarah wouldn't have made the same decision?

President Obama showed that spine of steel that VP Biden was referring to!

Heck, Jill Biden would have made the same decision.

1st of all, was the well connected source on Bushes refusal thread, none other than Karl Rove?

There is No doubt in my mind that had OBL been caught or killed during the last administration, TickerTape Parades woulda been orchestrated across America, courtesy of Bush/Cheney.

Now that OBL is gone, it took the MSM less than 3 days to go back to continuing the WaterBoy routine for the GOP! How long before they feedoff of FOXNews storyline as they usually do?

Lastly, President Barrack Hussein Obama made a Gutsy decision, SealTeam 6 carriedout the Presidents Orders to perfection(OBL DEAD) & America's MSM nitpicks it to Death!

Sad State of Affairs for the 4th Estate!

The Game Changer is the Fact that behind the Curtain of National Security, the GOP was shown to have Nothing There!

There's your Game Changer!

And you don't you think Sarah wouldn't have made the same decision?

You mean this Sarah Palin?

Fox news has reported that Mrs Palin did not understand that Africa was a continent, not a country, and did not know what countries were in the North American Free Trade Agreement.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.timesonline.co.uk%2Ftol%2Fnews%2Fworld%2Fus_and_americas%2Fus_elections%2Farticle5095495.ece&ei=dSbDTeGQEcTAswbAzPCRDw&usg=AFQjCNFbdjwKgvmR5R5Yn_Mc08nGzzoiWw

And those Bozo's over at Fox hired her anyway! LMAO!

So an idiot that doesn't know that Africa is a continent would make the same, simple, no-brainer decision as an idiot that thinks there are 57 states.......

What's your point?

What's your point?

Given her lack of intelligence - it's highly improbable she even knows where Pakistan is?

thinks there are 57 states.......

You know you've won the debate when morons like Booby have nothing left to play for the 57 state comment!

Sorry boooby - we're fresh out of 'lovely' parting gifts! You managed to clean us out! But HEY - thanks for playing anyway!

Line up ten high school seniors in a blind survey and ask them whether or not Africa is a country or a continent. Prepare to weep for your soul.

I think that's why Sarah Palin REALLY irks me: she's a mirror for us all. She is America; she's every single one of us that skated through public school with average grades; she's every single one of us that mouth-breathes as we white-knuckle the steering wheel at 10 and 2 drifitng from the on ramp to the fast lane going 20 miles under the limit with only the dimmest spatial perception; she's every single one of us who believes American Idol and Dancing with the Stars makes for excellent television; she's every single one of us that gets lost on the way to the polling station and settles for a morning at Starbucks instead of thinking to Google where that pesky public library really is.

That's America. Three-hundred-some-odd-million of us honest-to-God doing what we think is our best without realizing what huge fools we are.

...I need a beer. -_-;

It makes you crazy doesn`t it A crazy mean spirited slime of a woman Sarah Appalling gets to be paid very well for talking out of her ass.

Bob - Do you realize Bush had that same decision to make when Bin Laden was cornered in Tora Bora? If he had made the correct decision we wouldn't be sitting here listening you try to discredit president Obama. Oh nevermind, you would still be doing the same thing because you are a partisan hack.

Exodite.

Speak for yourself. I'm a receptionist at a travel agency and I'm smarter than Sarah Palin.

Good job, Melo D!

Can't wait to hear Spanky splainin Why Oil dropped $9.44 today & thats it also back under $100 a barrel.

My guess is the Speculaters seen what happened to OBL & did'nt wanna further aggrevate:

President Obama!

Its fairly simple, Rick. The dollar has been strengthening since Bernanke announced the end of quantitative easing in June. Gold and silver are also off their highs.

Simply put, it means that inflation fears are easing.

Next week, I will have a pretty comprehensive post on his- I promised one to Ira, who did not understand the connection between a weak dollar and high oil prices.

You might learn something, too.

Next week, I will have a pretty comprehensive post on his

We'll all be waiting with bated breath! LMFAO

Do you think you have a SHRED of credibility left after claiming you HAVE a PHD in economics and then being outed as a fraud that you are?

Or your inside knowledge of President Obama spending 30 million dollars a day when he went to Mumbai?

Or... your nasty habit of quoting British tabloids as a source to back up you BS?

Or.... well you get the picture...

We learned something alright, the NJ nut job is a serial fibber!

Aww Feisty, it's not like you could spell quantitive easing, let alone understand it.

And that old gal is why NoJo rocks your silly little world.

But hey, maybe you can prove me wrong and show us you are actually capable of an original thought. Go ahead, I'm holding my breath. :)

Joe, I look forward to your post. I'm always open to learning.

Sorry you have to endure the personal attacks when you are simply providing an alternative economic insight.

MB, I still say by the 4th of July when food, gas and unemployment are all skyrocketing, most Americans, other than the lapdogs on this site, will barely remember Bin-Laden. Hell, on Monday the #1 search on google for people under 24 was "Who is Bin-Laden"?

Hell, on Monday the #1 search on google for people under 24 was "Who is Bin-Laden"?

Celebrating ignorance again I see...

Yeah! That's something to be REAL proud of!

I'm not sure if the obvious lack of perspective is funny, or just sad.

I guess once a cheerleader always a cheerleader.

What is funny is the clear failure to see the distinct lurch rightward. Or has summary execution always been part of the democratic platform?

Good times. :)

Spanky,

Good times indeed. Wasn't it those 18-24 year olds that mobilized and carried Obama to victory? It's gonna take a billion dollar warchest to teach them who Bin-Laden was, what he did and why we killed him.

Speaking of ignorance, it was reported today that here in Detroit 47% of the citizens of Detroit are illiterate. Guess that explains the Democrat rule, Kwame Kilpatrick, John Conyers, Monica Conyers, Martha Reeves (Yes of the Vandellas, she was voted t City Council and was as corrupt as they come...)

Ahh Detroit - bastion of progressive values.

Let them have their fun WCA. All those hope and change youth are down and out, unemployed and broke.

Poor bastards can't even afford to get gas.

Yep - things sure have changed.

Here is some more evidence of progressive values- which, by the way, is more of a "game changer" than "noun, verb, I killed bin Laden"

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/159397-obama-floats-plan-to-tax-cars-by-the-mile

Oh- but not to worry, it's just a draft! They need to spend $300million for an "office" to study the feasibility of installing electronic tracking devices to tell how many miles you drive- and then tax the pants off you.

Funny how it showed up this week, right? I mean, it's not like anything else was going on.

Thank the powers I can ride a horse.

Anyhow...Osama bin Laden's death, much as an accomplishment it is for the nation, is ultimately not going to be the deciding factor for a lot of potential voters come 2012. The FR staff themselves openly wondered Monday morning whether or not the event would last long enough in the nano-second memory of the electorate to even boost Obama's approval numbers.

While the President's numbers did increase (nine points with males, last I saw) it is still a fair thing to consider that, in a little over 18 months, the positive political effect of bin Laden's death for Obama will be greatly diminished if the economy continues its sluggish recovery. Should unemployment continue to hover between nine and ten percent and should gas prices not return to their previous levels in February, the administration is going to have a tough time convincing the same swing voters who came to the polls in 2008 that doing so again is worth it.

At the same time, much as both the Democrats and Republicans love to paint themselves as the party who's numero uno concern is the employment status of each and every single one of we special snowflakes, I made mention in another post here on FR (before the debate dropped off rather abruptly) that there is little evidence to support either side's claim of wanting or even being capable of producing legislation that will get 10 million wayward souls back to work.

The financial strain on the middle and lower class is going to determine the outcome of 2012.

Right on the money, Exodite Dragon.

Here is the real game changer

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42912580

It's their own network, by the way. Funny. Maybe those guys aren't on Team Obama.

Or maybe they are the real professional journalists.

I forgot to add that I like the new digs, FR Situation Room.

That photo of the Obama Team watching Sunday's event is the most visually descriptive picture I've seen recently.

You do realize that they were watching either a blank screen or the ballgame, right?

Panetta has said that 25 of the 40 minute operation took place with no feed.

In other words, that photo op? Pure B.S.

You do realize that they were watching either a blank screen or the ballgame, right?

When are you going to figure out - we don't believe a word that comes out of your lying mouth?

And in contrast we look to you Feisty for everything.

Be a good old gal and drop the "we."

Cause really Feisty NoJoschools you, flat out, everyday. I mean, don't get me wrong "we" do so appreciate your advising us, every day, that Boehner is orange, Christie is fat, and Bachmann is batsh!t crazy. So thanks for that.

And yes, of course I know that you have no idea. Ignorance is bliss dear, and you wear it oh so well.

Keep on keeping on Feisty.

By the way, Jody- I forgot to add the link

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20059613-503544.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CBSNewsCourtWatch+(CBS+News%3A+Court+Watch)

My vote is the ballgame. Of course, it could have been Celebrity Apprentice.

That was on that night, too.

Bliss [Jody] meet ignorance [Feisty]. Ignorance, this here's bliss.

I do loves me some apples.

Most economists agree that we have 2-4 years left as a viable country economically if we continue Obamas current spending levels. A vote for him is a vote against you and every other American trying to make a living. Go ahead and knock on all the doors you want. There is always a percentage of the population who can't see that the very policies they support are the very policies that empty their very own wallet. A better idea is to go door to door and pass out economic books. Maybe they will educate enough people to see the current forest through the trees.

Lot's of weasel words in that one mrkirchner, how about some support for your fear-mongering?

Nicely said. "Yes, we did." Obama got Osama is bumper sticker size.

Maybe you didn't notice the unemployment numbers today

Amazing how you missed this! lol

From earlier:

With 474,000 new claims for unemployment today,

Thanks for the reminder!

Speaking of J O B S - where are they?

Wasn't it the Teapublicans #1 PRIORITY if ELECTED?

Surely you remember?

They were going to come in and wave their magic wand and right ALL the wrongs in this country!

Can you name ONE jobs bill that's been introduced so far?

What's that? You can't - WHY of COURSE not this is what the baggers & birthers are FOCUSED ON:

In a 251 to 175 vote this evening, 16 anti-choice Democrats joined every House Republican present in passing H.R. 3, the No Taxpayer Funding For Abortion Act. A chief weapon in the House GOP's "comprehensive assault" on women this bill proposes some of the most radical and draconian restrictions on women's rights. They include:

– Redefinition Of Rape: The bill sponsor Rep. Chris Smith (R-NJ) faced serious backlash after he tried to narrow the definition rape to "forcible rape." By narrowing the rape and incest exception in the Hyde Amendment, Smith sought to prevent the following situations from consideration: Women who say no but do not physically fight off the perpetrator, women who are drugged or verbally threatened and raped, and minors impregnated by adults.

Smith promised to remove the language and while it is not technically in the bill, Mother Jones reports that House Republicans used "a sly legislative maneuver" to insert a "backdoor reintroduction" of redefinition language. Essentially, if the bill is challenged in court, judges will look at the congressional committee report to determine intent. The committee report for H.R. 3 says the bill will "not allow the Federal Government to subsidize abortions in cases of statutory rape" — thus excluding statutory rape-related abortions from Medicaid coverage.

– Tax Increase On Women And Small Businesses: H.R. 3 prevents women from using "itemized medical deductions, certain tax-advantaged health care accounts or tax credits included in last year's health care law to pay for abortions or for health insurance plans that cover abortion." In doing so, the bill forces women and small businesses that provide health insurance that covers abortion to pay more in taxesthan they would otherwise. Both economic conservative Grover Norquist and the South Carolina Chamber of Commerce noted that the bill is basically a tax increase.

– Rape Audits: Because H.R. 3 bans using tax credits or deductions to pay for abortions or insurance, a woman who used such a benefit would have to prove, if audited, that her abortion "fell under the rape/incest/life-of-the-mother exception, or that the health insurance she had purchased did not cover abortions." Essentially, the bill turns Internal Revenue Service agents into "abortion cops" who would force women to give "contemporaneous written documentation" that it was "incest, or rape, or [her] life was in danger" that compelled an abortion.

– Bans D.C.-Funded Abortions: The most recent spending resolution contained a ban on abortions in the District of Columbia by redefining the D.C. local government as the federal government. Thus, health clinics in D.C. are banned from using public funds from D.C. taxpayers to provide abortion services. H.R. 3 "would enshrine the District ban into federal law." According to the Office of Management and Budget office, such a restriction violates "home rule."

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/05/04/house-gop-hr3/

Is this your idea of getting the country back on track?

Sounds like sour grapes to me.

Sounds like sour grapes to me.

Facts, sour grapes

Potato, Potahto. Guess it depends on your education.

Indeed the burning issue is back to Women's rights - that's your potahto White Collar Auto? How's GM doing anyway???

Unfortunately this will all be forgotten come 2012 elections but the GOP will be having a hard time to talk about Foreign Policy and President Obama being weak.

I guess we will be back to college transcripts, who paid for his college tuition, fake birth certificate, and all those important issues that impact our country.

But I will say if he gets unemployment below 8%, market on an upswing, gas back down - he will be re-elected.

Can't wait to watch the debate tonight.

I remember Gingrich's FIRST talking point in the 2010 election.................OBAMA- Party of Food Stamps. OURS- Party of PAYCHECKS!! Guess they COULD have meant their own paychecks??

Or Boehner, "Give us another chance".................does he think we WANT another period of time that will screw things up even more?? OR when told that passing this budget could cost thousands/millions of lost jobs.............his IMMORTAL words: "So be it"

So, once again......................WHOSE paychecks??

Yep.

Oh come on Ira - why you got to go an spoil their fun?

It's ok, conscious ignorance of fairly recent history will get them through.

Say Ira, remember back in '90 and '91? There really wasn't a "viable" democratic contender then, kinda like now on the other side.

Oh and the economy sucked.

Well, considering that this has not budged his disapproval numbers on the economy, or the less than a majority who think he deserves re election, I would say that this whole story is merely wishful thinking on behalf of the " professional journalists" in their Team Obama tee shirts on this site.

Spanky..

...and the economy sucked. Exactly why Bush 1 lost. Huge approval ratings for the quick victory in Gulf War 1 and when the economy tanked so did his aprroval ratings.

I remember Ira.

Remember what the interest rates were on a 30 year fixed? Brother, this here is about to get nasty ugly. I almost envy the libbies around here. Ignorance is often times blissful.

It should also be mentioned that the S&L disaster was weighing on the country then too. Another BUSH debacle. Boy Bush NEIL got us sucked into that mess as a high-roller with other people's money way back then. Odd that Bush Boy W had to deal with another BUSH Boy generated banking crisis. I feel for the elder Bush. He has such a bad brood of boys. They can't even succeed WITH OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY!

Memory is a wonderful thing as truth will out the lies every time. WE remember who got us here Sprankzer. Mark my word the American people will remember all of the BUSH BOY shenanegans for decades to come!

You betcha!

Spanky..

Interest rates were or were over almost 20%. Good times.

I recall getting high 14% on CDs in '81, and 82, not the early nineties. But hey, I'm thinking we are headed to 20% soon, which is great if you got a few jumbo CDs. Kinda sucks if you want to buy a house or use credit.

And kids - credit is bad. Don't do it.

Gosh Ira - it almost seems like we agree on this one. Let's try not to let that happen again, ok?

Spanky..

During the Carter administration rates were over 20%. Came down during Reagan and up a little under Bush and Clinton.

Credit is tight and but rates are low. Actually, good time to buy a house as prices are really low as are fixed rate mortgages.

Let's never let this happen again...deal?

Only cash deals on house I'm afraid. Dealt with short sale issues, horrific. Plus nothing will appraise. Makes completing escrow almost impossible. Got a bunch on new appraisal regs and laws.

So if you got cash, sure, great time to buy - but only if you think the market and economy is coming back. Me, I see Cali going off the cliff and inflation. A lot of inflation.

Agreed on the agreement part.

White Collar Auto. You're entitled to your opinion and you have a right to post comments but I flagged you for name calling which is against the FR COH. You could have made your point without using the term you did for Feisty.

Well, I don't usually reply to hags

REALLY? lol Yet hear you are!

You pulled that jobs comment from NJNB, who would of thought you, of all people would be quoting her!

Either PROVE it or STFU!

I'll even give you a hint - you can click on the NJ nut jobs name and it will take you to ALL of her comments!

Time to pull up your big boy panties - your slip is showing! ;o)

@ Jody! Thanks - but don't worry about it! I'm more than used to dealing with mental midgets like WCA!

He's nothing more than a 'retread'of someone who's been banned from the board on multiple occasions...

No problem for flagging me. You are correct. I assume you do the same to Feisty in her constant name calling attacks of NJNB? I guess every once in a while, I figure someone should get as good as they give. Won't happen again, right Feisty?

Jody give it a rest. 1. Feisty is a big girl;

and 2. she is the absolute worst offender around here. Just a few days ago she called someone a pussy. Not one day goes by when she doesn't call someone a name. In fact but for the name calling she would have nothing else to post.

And as we all know the old gal has been disciplined on many occasion. in fact she is the only one I have ever heard of getting banned for a day.

Either call everyone out, or mind your own business. And yet I somehow doubt you'd ever do that.

White collar seems very upset that our President did exactly what he said he would do if he saw an opportunity to get Bin Laden. Wonder if he is equally upset about the last administration's trashing of this economy?

Feisty,

OK if I must, Now does this mean you will STFU (whatever that means)

no joe, no bo, nj

Get real.

These photos are the new long form birth certificate, and will be used exactly the same way.

Some time next year, when his numbers look bad, he will publish them, hoping they will boost his re election chances. Bank on it.

With 474,000 new claims for unemployment today

Feisty, I have to go to my daughters 5th grade art show, but I want to assure you I am not a retread. I have followed and read this site for a couple of years and did not comment. I did, however enjoy the banter. It's just that recently the left has gotten so gushing over Obama and so derisive toward anyone who disagrees with him, that I thought it might be fun to join in.

Maybe I was wrong.

We hope that you do enjoy joining in the banter, White Collar, but perhaps you could consider posting something a bit more substantive. Enjoy your daughter's art show, those are always special days.

Say there New D perhaps yo can direct me to something "substantive" that our gal Feisty has posted.

Go ahead and give it a shot.

WCA:

You are welcome to join in, but you are not welcome to attack people on a personal basis and call them hags. That was over the line. I will gladly listen to what you have to say until you turn it personal and then I will tune you out.

Lets start over shall we. Slates clean.

White Collar Auto,

I enjoyed the banter between you and spanky, don't let them chase you away. As for the gushing over Obama, I should warn you they get very offensive about it. I mention that to Jody a couple of days ago, and I got the wrath from four of the regulars here. Tread lightly. 1 2 3

Flagging for CoH violations is practically a joke and reeks of butt-hurt. We're all purportedly adults here; even if we can't act like it with regards to how we treat each other, we should at least be able to roll with the punches.

I think I've got at least a dozen notifications in my e-mail for temporary bans due to my various unhinged comments concerning pulling people's intestines out through their nose with a fish hook.

And now comes poor theotas, who, along with no jo, and JS1 must hold some kind of record for least substantive posts. Still waiting for you to say something of value....

I see now NDD. "Substantive" means agreeing with you.

Still waiting for Feisty's apology. She told me to prove she used NJNB's line from a post today or STFU. I did and I haven't seen her retraction. I notice she says STFU to a lot of people. Like I said, I'm new to the banter, could someone tell me what that means? If it's bad, shouldn't she be banned?

Almost forgot, the 5th grade art show was awesome!

Well looky here we got us a black kettle - NewD.

So silly NewD, so myopic.

Still waiting for Feisty's apology.

Keep waiting - no apology will be forth coming!

However, since you admit to being a rookie - I DID not:

You pulled that jobs comment from NJNB,

I copied - pasted and responded!

That's how is WORKS around here...

In the meantime, CHECKMATE! ;o)

Oh, and WHO else did I tell to STFU?

More abstract stokes from the cheap seats!

PS: Have I told you how hard I laughed when you come here clamoring for civility and proceed to call me a hag?

There's a word for people like you: hypocrite...

newday

When you stop being so condescending and act like your sh!t doesn't stink than maybe.

I bet you are one of those old blue hair ladies that hates everything because life has passed you by. Be happy, life to good.

Hey, that has substance.

NDD - Keep up the EXCELLENT work!

The RWNJ's are on the ropes! LMFAO!

Wow Feisty with logic like that it's hard to argue with you. The old "Copy and Paste" defense. You responded to my post with NJNB's comments as a defense. Again, never thought I would see that.

I've already gone back and proved you wrong once, not going to waste time doing it again. By your logic you will have just "Copied and Pasted" STFU.

And I still don't know what STFU means.

Man, Feisty, direct score with theotas: Old lady with blue hair? I guess that could be, though most old ladies can't saddle a horse, lift feed bags, not to mention move hay, train a therapy dog, and do four miles a day with said dog. But, whatever floats your boat theotas: Here is a hint: most people recognize when they use one multi-syllable word over and over again, that it may cause others to believe that it is the only one they know. Hint number 2: when you use condescending as an attack...that makes you...yes, say it with me...CONDESCENDING!

Ding Dong, you are wrong, White Collar: why don't you tell us about what you believe? How do you see the world? Are you an apologist for the right wing..are they always right? How do you see the capture of Bin Laden? Did the President do a good thing? Or did Bush capture him? That is what I mean by substantive. The problem that no jo has with most readers of this blog is that she has been caught out too many times shall we say...exaggerating information that she post. If you click on her links, you will often find that they do not relate to the claims that she makes.

OK NDD but you won't agree:

I think it's great that Obama acted on the intelligence that he had and took Bin-Laden out. I also think that all the Bush haters on this site are to blind to see that intelligence was gathered due to the Bush instigated policies. I am thrilled that he chose to continue the policies of Bush.

I think that Obama's current energy policies are killing the country. His lack of desire to drill for oil in the US is reprehensible.

I think that Obama is using the EPA to get Cap and Trade through the back door and it is going to cost us dearly.

I am thrilled to death that Obama continued the policy initiated by Bush to loan money to the auto companies. I am working today for GM because of it. GM posted a 1.3 Billion dollar profit in the 1st Quarter with a good year expected ahead.

I think though, as a 20 year vetran of the auto industry, I can safely say that with the influx of CAFE standards and Safety standards we are in trouble down the road. See, CAFE means lighter cars, Safety means heavier cars. From a safety standpoint the regulations now are pretty much the difference between death or a coma, and they are expensive. You can generally have one or the other but not both.

I don't know, does that count as substantive? I would love to have a discussion with an informed Liberal on the auto industry, but mostly they really don't know the business and spout what they are told to spout.

Yes, it does, White Collar, and I do appreciate the response. I have honestly believed that you do want a discussion, and it is easy to get derailed into personal attacks, as you can see. And, (don't know if you are a man or woman, so let me make it general) having raised four cherubs, I greatly admire people who care enough about their children to go to their events. Those children grow into adults, and if they have parents who care about them, they grow into responsible adults. As to what you have said: we have many areas where we agree, so let's start with those: I agree most vehemently with your views on GM. I think that GM is a lesson that we should study, their comeback was amazing! I am glad to know that your job was saved because of it, and I know that many other jobs were saved as well. I will be replacing my RAV 4 in the near future, and I am pleased that I can look at GM or Ford cars now.

I also agree that some of the work that took Bin Laden out was developed during those Bush years, but I think the jury is out if it was enhance interogation that did it. I am hearing both, and I would like to see what facts emerge. It is also sounding like it could simply have been questioning that did it. In any event, we signed the Geneva treaties for a reason. One of those was to protect our own soldiers in the field. I do think it raises the risk to them if we are engaging in practices that should be considered torture.

I also understand, given the business you are in, why you are concerned about CAFE standards and the rest. I see it differently. I would like to see the technicians at GM and Ford come up with ways to get us off our dependence on oil, because long term, THAT is what will save your industry. Do I believe they can do it? Yes. Nothing is impossible for an American interested in solving a problem. All the new drilling in the world isn't going to help us if we don't find a way to save energy. If you remember, the President himself suggested that he was not adverse to drilling here, and he got a lot of flak for that. I live near the North Dakota border, where those kinds of drilling are going on.

The funny part about your post, though what you say is true, is that Bush was the one that started the lending of money to the car companies. He did, but when you read most right wing posters, they will say it was the President that did it, and that he did it to take over private companies, part of his socialistic agenda, if you will.

You are quite correct when you say that I, a Liberal simply don't know much about the auto industry, but you will find that some of my friends that post regularly do. I am guessing that you can have that discussion with them if you are patient.

So, thank you for your response. I hope it reassures you to know that you can have discussions with Liberals, and it doesn't always have to degenerate to a personal attack. It might surprise you to find out that one of the folks we like best is a conservative named Frank Grimey Grimes. I am sure he will pop up one of these days.

WCA - Lighter doesn't necessarily mean unsafe. With the advanced technology in the use of crush panels (designed to absorb the energy of impact) we are saving more lives every year. However, if you are referring to a passenger vehicle involvement with a 18-wheeler...yes, the lighter vehicle will always suffer more overall damage.

You must also keep in mind the development going on with GPS and other guidance systems currently available only on 'high-end' vehicles. Mercedes-Benz and Lexus come equipped with warning systems that inform the driver of wandering out of his driving lane. Also, there is the automatic braking system that activates if the vehicle is getting too close to the vehicle ahead of it.

We have so much 'basic technology' right now...to find purposeful uses for it is happening and the technology will continue to mature and be refined over and over and over again. This is great news for vehicle manufacturers! However, you must position yourself, through education, and become involved in engineering; if you really want to make a difference.

JSYK (just so that you know)I am a liberal; however I am and will always be an independent. About the only thing that riles me up is group-think. It has a destructive nature and leads others into not thinking for themselves.

I am so glad that you responded Journey towards peace. I think White Collar is sincere in wanting to talk about those issues, and I just don't know enough about them. Tell me, are you new to posting here too?

Yes, I recently retired from the Automotive Industry (35 years) and love to keep my mind involved.

Welcome, I have been reading what you have posted, and enjoyed it. Congratulations on your retirement. You are the person that White Collar is looking for!

Thanks Journey for the input. I design front bumper systems so I am pretty up to speed on Long Range/Short Range Radar, EBZA (Electronic Blind Zone) ACC (Automatic Cruise Control or "breaking systems), etc, and you are right the technology has come a long way but it is not cheap and yes you can get it on high end cars. The problem is with Domestic regulations and European regulations which are even stiffer, (Pedestrian Protection- the death v coma argument) the studios and engineers often find their hands tied in the design. It is nearly impossible to package all these systems in a car that still looks good.

A friend of mine recently asked me why we never make our concept cars into a production vehicle. The simple answer is by the time we have to meet all the regs, the cars don't look or "feel" the same.

Finally, the electric v gas thing. I work with a lot of very smart people who have dedicated their life to trying to make the electric car work. The government can't just keep throwing money at it and expect a solution. I guess I don't understand why Liberals can't see that if a company could develop a car that worked efficiently, they would be all over the place. We can't do it, the Japanese can't do it, the Germans can't do it. The market will find a solution as soon as it is feasible. We have made some advances, the Volt, the Leaf, but they just aren't ready for "Prime Time".

Thanks, for letting me share. Congratulations on Retirement. I think I have another 10-12 years now, which is kind of sad because that is what I thought 5 years ago......

Your welcome, WCA....

It really sounds like you are in the thick of it!! I am always amazed at the level of technology used in passenger vehicles...it's so cutting-edge.

Always remember...you must rush into failure in order to get to success. Just something Henry Ford established as ground rules for his engineers.

I have an idea that electric motors (and hybrids) will be short-lived. The engineers will find another unknown technology for propulsion. It could happen in your own garage!!!

Best regards

Interesting conversation. I'm not in the industry but cars are one of my passion. Cars of all kinds--regular attendance at the race track, street rods...pretty much you name it. I'd love to have a new Mustang, but the new Camaro SS ragtop is a sexy beast. I'm working on a '57 Chevy Handyman wagon that'll have a 5.3L Gen 3 V8.

And yet I'm a Liberal and an environmentalist. I recycle, my house is heavily insulated, I use energy-efficient lighting...all to help me be responsible while continuing to indulge my automotive fetish.

You're substantially right about a lot of things. Hard to deny that, the engineering supports it. Mass equals passive safety. Mass, on the other hand, works against maneuverability, and as JTP pointed out technology in active safety is advancing rapidly. Technology tends to get less expensive with time and expanding usage, as for example antilock braking and 4 wheel disks.

You're also right that you can't force technology before it's time. Electric cars have been waiting decades for better batteries and more efficient motors. On the positive side every time people are ready to write off the internal combustion engine someone gives it additional life, as for example with the newest generation of direct injection engines.

Development of technology isn't often inexpensive, however, and that's a place where government can help. Look at how rapidly technology advanced with assistance from the space program for example, and it give some idea how that can work.

Hope that adds something to the conversation, I'll be interested to hear your thoughts.

newday.

I use that word over and over again because that's what you do. There was this article Why are Progressives so Condescending and if fits you, to a tee.

As for my comment regarding the blue hair, I was out of line. So go ahead and run your 4 miles with said dog, as for me I will put you on ignore. I don't like how you treat people, its just plain mean. I am ashamed that I sank to that level, its not who I am.

John B - thanks for joining in! I also do my best using technology to 'get off the grids'. I have overcome the power grid with a solar energy system , as well as, a solar water heating system. I soon plan to get off the sewer system using a composting toilet. I use LED bulbs for lighting and propane for cooking and heating (for now). Our local government doesn't allow water-catching systems to be used for drinking water, yet. I hope something is developed in that area.

WCA - I remember the first front bumper technology - the 5 MPH bumper. As you have experienced first-hand, there was much more needed.

I am thinking that a new fuel will be developed for the internal combustion engine. Something to stabilize the combustion chamber temperature. We need something more to overcome the stochiometric mixture barrier. Hopefully this new fuel will be developed from algae or some other biological source. This will probably mean a new configuration to mechanical parts.

Poor theotas: can't handle the results of her own actions. Here is the other thing that is true: when you refer to one article over and over, it becomes increasingly clear that you don't read. I am greatly amused by that article, since it was what? Yep, here comes that word again...condescending.

Now, I suppose I am supposed to be upset that you are going to put me on ignore; but here is the truth of the matter...ignoring someone does not stop posts. I will continue to be the "Greek Chorus" and point out how facile you are.

Yeap, money is the most important thing, GOPers.