Osama bin Laden’s death is a political game-changer, though the size (and duration) of its impact is unknown… Does it change the nation’s psyche?... Does it change the nation’s policy in Afghanistan?... One thing’s for sure: It makes all the other issues -- Trump, the birth certificate, even the substantive debate over the debt ceiling -- seem small by comparison… Recalling Obama’s words on Al Qaeda and Pakistan back in Aug. 2007, and how his Democratic rivals attacked him for it… At 11:55 am ET, Obama awards two U.S. soldiers from the Korean War the Medal of Honor posthumously… And at 8:15 pm, he and the first lady host a dinner for bipartisan congressional leaders and their spouses.
From NBC’s Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, Domenico Montanaro, and Ali Weinberg
*** A game-changer: The 9/11 terrorist attacks fundamentally transformed American politics. They ensured that the 2004 presidential election would be fought over national security; they resulted in Democrats picking John Kerry as their nominee and Republicans picking New York City as their convention site; and they ultimately led to Bush’s re-election, albeit in a closely contested race. While it’s doubtful that Osama bin Laden’s death will have as long of a political impact -- especially in this fast-changing, short-term memory media landscape -- it will surely shape the contours of next year’s presidential race. For starters, it will hover over the first Republican debate set for this Thursday, even if it’s not a direct question. It also will highlight the GOP field’s foreign-policy and national-security credentials, or their lack thereof. And it amounts to Barack Obama’s top achievement as president. Last night changes everything (for now), but we also know how quickly it can dissipate.
*** Does it change the nation’s psyche? Indeed, the size of the impact is unknown, and it will play out in the weeks and months ahead, especially with an unemployment rate near 9% and with gasoline prices hitting $4 a gallon. But it could serve to change the nation’s psyche. Put simply, the United States has been in a national funk over the past four years. Obama’s presidential victory in 2008 boosted spirits (particularly Democratic ones), despite the sinking economy. And the GOP’s midterm wins in 2010 boosted Republican and Tea Party spirits. Yet nothing has united Democrats, Republicans, independents, and everyone else -- until now. As President Obama remarked last night, “Let us think back to the sense of unity that prevailed on 9/11. I know that it has, at times, frayed. Yet today’s achievement is a testament to the greatness of our country and the determination of the American people.” There was never going to be a V-E Day after 9/11, but this is as close as the country will get to one.
*** Does it change the nation’s policy in Afghanistan? Yet there is something we do know for sure: Bin Laden’s death will impact the debate about the war in Afghanistan. “This is the epicenter of violent extremism practiced by al Qaeda,” Obama said when he announced the U.S. troop increase to Afghanistan. “It is from here that we were attacked on 9/11, and it is from here that new attacks are being plotted as I speak.” The beginning of the troop withdrawal is already set for this summer, but calls for a more intense and rapid draw-down will only increase. Of course, there will be a serious -- and political -- debate about what the future U.S. policy toward Afghanistan (and Pakistan, too) should be, especially given that it's hard to believe Pakistan somehow overlooked bin Laden living in an affluent military veteran suburb of Islamabad. In fact, because of Pakistan's questionable reliability as an ally, it complicates the picture with Afghanistan and doesn't make "declaring victory and coming home" such a cut and dried decision. Still, make no mistake: Last night’s news changes things…
*** It does make everything else seem so small: Bin Laden’s death also makes the past two week’s worth of political conversation look so small by comparison. Donald Trump. The president’s birth certificate. Friday’s GOP cattle call in New Hampshire. Even the upcoming battle to raise the nation’s debt ceiling. As for Trump, if he wasn’t already embarrassed by the jokes at his expense on Saturday night, he has to be embarrassed about all of his recent charges (“Where is Obama’s birth certificate?” “Where are his college grades?” “Who wrote his book?”) And as for the more substantive debate over the debt ceiling, last night’s news will have an impact as well. Everything looks so small by comparison, at least for now. One last point: This probably guarantees that Mitt Romney -- who has been on the fence about attending -- doesn’t show up at Thursday’s GOP presidential debate.
*** Naïve? Ironically, Bin Laden’s death -- in Pakistan -- recalls one of Obama’s supposed "lowest" moments during the ’08 presidential campaign, in Aug. 2007. In an Aug. 1 speech, per NBC’s John Bailey, Obama delivered these words: “If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and [Pakistan] President Musharraf will not act, we will." At a debate two weeks later, Obama’s Democratic rivals used those remarks to paint Obama as either naïve or inexperienced. Said Hillary Clinton: “Pakistan is on a knife's edge. It is easily, unfortunately, a target for the jihadists. And, therefore, you've got to be very careful about what it is you say with respect to Pakistan.” Said Chris Dodd: “The only person that separates us from a jihadist government in Pakistan with nuclear weapons is President Musharraf. And, therefore, I thought it was irresponsible to engage in that kind of a suggestion here. That's dangerous. Words mean something in campaigns.” And said Edwards: “Musharraf is not a wonderful leader, but he provides some stability in Pakistan. And there is a great risk, if he's overthrown, about a radical government taking over.”
*** "If we have Osama bin Laden in our sights and we've exhausted all other options, we should take him out”: Here was Obama's answer to the criticism: "Well, you know, to prepare for this debate, I rode in the bumper cars at the [Iowa] state fair." He went on to say, "If we have Osama bin Laden in our sights and we've exhausted all other options, we should take him out before he plans to kill another 3,000 Americans. I think that's common sense." Indeed, Bin Laden’s death is a tacit rebuke of all those who questioned Obama's toughness on foreign policy and bats down the criticism from the right that Obama's rhetoric is too soft (he doesn't say "Global War on Terror!"). Obama supporters will say it proves it's not tough talk that matters -- but rather action.
*** Obama’s day: At 11:55 am ET, the president awards two U.S. soldiers the Medal of Honor posthumously. And at 8:15 pm, he and the first lady host a dinner for bipartisan congressional leaders and their spouses.
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“Our President” promised us that he would deliver unto us “Justice for what happened on 9/11. Last night it was reported that President Obama had given the order to attack the compound where “Bin Laden” was hiding and the mission was a total success. “Bin Laden is now DEAD and NOT one American life lost, Thank you MR. President for keeping your promise to America. Lately the right has been on a false “leadership” attack on our President, well how is this for LEADERSHIP?? President Obama has taken down “Bin Laden” and he will go down in History as the President that promised America Justice for 9/11 and once again delivered on his promise. I bet that guy in Libya is not sleeping so soundly tonight do not be surprised if he steals away in the night and soon.
On May 1, 2003, Bush became the first sitting President to make an arrested landing in a fixed-wing aircraft on an aircraft carrier[2][3] when he arrived at the USS Abraham Lincoln in a Lockheed S-3 Viking, dubbed Navy One, as the carrier returned from combat operations in the Persian Gulf. He posed for photographs with pilots and members of the ship's crew while wearing a flight suit. A few hours later, he gave a speech announcing the end of major combat operations in the Iraq War. Far above him was the warship's banner stating "Mission Accomplished.".
I guess History has a sense of irony in that 8 years to the day “Our President” can say “Mission Accomplished”!!
Happy Mundane everyone
President Obama Kept His Promise, Gave Director Leon Panetta Top Priority, and Brought Bin Laden To Justice
President Obama did in 2 years what Bush could not in 7.
George W Bush let Osama get away in Tora Bora.
[snip]
An American intelligence official told me [Mary Anne Weaver] that the Bush administration later concluded that the refusal of Centcom to dispatch the marines - along with their failure to commit U.S. ground forces to Afghanistan generally - was the gravest error of the war.
American intelligence officials now believe that some 800 Qaeda fighters escaped Tora Bora that night. Others had already left; still others stayed behind, including bin Laden. "You've got to give him credit," Gary Schroen, a former C.I.A. officer who led the first American paramilitary team into Afghanistan in 2001, told me [Mary Anne Weaver]. "He stayed in Tora Bora until the bitter end." By the time the Afghan militias advanced to the last of the Tora Bora caves, no one of any significance remained: about 20 bedraggled young men were taken prisoner that day, Dec. 17
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/11/magazine/11TORABORA.html?pagew
This is not campaign propaganda it is real. For those of you who think that President Obama is a Kenyan born Muslim, well does announcing" the "death of Osama bin Laden change anything?
I saw some chatter on the internet that Osama bin Laden was too have died years ago, therefore, President Obama bashers think that this "announcement" is a follow-up to the fake "birth certificate for campaign purposes.
Whatever any foolish outlandish statement they begrudgingly say or have it is a fetish about this BFF military accomplishment OUR Commander-in Chief President Barack Hussein Obama and the Navy Seals who Killed Bin Laden did. President Obama got Bin Laden.
Bin Laden is dead.
Here is picture below.
http://www.thestar.co.za/polopoly_fs/iol-bin-laden-dead-1.1063202!/image/2983608804.jpeg_gen/derivatives/box_300/2983608804.jpeg
Now all doubts can be flushed down the loo.
The whole routine was worth it. President could say excuse me, Sorry it took so long to get my birth certificate. It’s just that I was too busy killing Osama bin Laden.
http://twitpic.com/4s7zcv#
I don't see nothing wrong with a little toot toot beep beep!!!! Hell yea!!!
Bush left the spirits dancing in the flesh.
Mahalo, Mr President!, the Hawaiian word for “thank you” you kept your promise and never lied to US what you wanted to do with Bin Laden in your usual humble fashion.
May you live a long, healthy, and prosperous life. You have my love and support.
Long live my fellow Chicagoan and may he be fortunate in achieving his objectives.
We should all come tighter and support our President for this magnimous ded as we know the sigifance of what other terrorist are prone to do since their figue head and symbolic leader is gone.
Paul Ryan Runs
http://images.politico.com/global/news/110427_paulprotest_ap_328.jpg
President Barack Obama—Commander-in-Chief
It was a typical Sunday night; most people on the East Coast were going to bed and preparing to go to work in the morning. Few noticed that the lights were on in the White House. The lights are on as President Obama often works late into the evening. But last night was different. Our Commander-in-Chief was up and waiting to hear the outcome of the mission he authorized to take out Bin Laden. Today the world knows that that mission was successful.
Some of President Obama's detractors might want to marginalize the accomplishment as luck. But facts reveal that the success of the mission was based on hard work, planning and thoughtful preparation.
A heart-felt thank-you to the brave Navy Seals who undertook this mission. They are today's heroes! Today Americans throughout the country are celebrating that justice has now been served on the world's most hated terrorist. To some small degree there is some closure on that dreadful event of 9/11. Perhaps some of President Obama's greatest critics can find the courage to say, "Well done Mr. President."
All I can say this morning is WOW!
Imagine my surprise waking up to the news that President Obama accomplished
something in 2 1/2 years, that Bush & Cheney couldn't in 8 LONG years!
May Bin Laden rest fitfully in enternal hell!
Thank you President Obama and thank you to our fine service men &
women!
Time to dust off the MISSION ACCOMPLISHED banner because, this time it's for
REAL!
Now let's get our troops home ASAP!
I'll now sit back and watch the righies attempt to take credit for this & the could of, would of, should of games begin!
lol
*popcorn*?
PS: Off topic, I got tell give a SHOUT OUT to whoever listened to the idea
of getting rid of those annoying ads in the middle of the page! I don't care
for the giant Allstate one on the side but, it's a GREAT improvement over the
other format! ;o)
Congratulations to President Obama, and the U.S. military and intelligence professionals for a job well done.
Ron:
Amen my friend. This is a great day for all of America. Let this be a waring to all that wish us harm. We will not let you go unpunished. We will search you out and hunt you down and you will pay for your deeds.
This is leadership from "Our President" that cannot be denied any longer. He made a promise to the American people and he, once again, delivered.
Thank you President Obama!
Indeed, a job well done, Mission Accomplished by the superior members of Special Operations!
Message: Don't mess with the USA!
NO!!! You don't understand!!! This was all carefully orchestrated by the Illuminatti to boost the approval numbers of their puppet, President Obama!!! Don't you get it??? This was all a sham!!! You've been flim-flammed by the best!!!
Do you really think that Queen Elizabeth, Steve Jobs, Dick Cheney, Col. Sanders, Carson Daly, Pope Benedict, Neil Armstrong, the Koch Brothers, and Anna Molly would allow this to happen if they didn't want it to??? This is all a scam designed to drive the price of oil and gold even higher!!!
Mark my words, people, this is going to be the beginning of the end!!! WE'RE ALL DOOMED, I TELL YOU!!! DOOMED!!!
Have a great day!!! :)
Personally, I am surprised that Obama let this happen now. Two months from now, by the Fourth of July, during a summer of $4-$5 gas, a slumping economy and skyrocketing food prices, this will be forgotten by most Americans. Bush got Saddam, how much did that help him in the polls?
Joe in Albany
Congratulations to President Obama, and the U.S. military and intelligence professionals for a job well done.
I know that was hard joe, ,but i know your president thanks you for your support.
It doesn't sound like bin Laden had a ton of his own personal security in this house, which surprised me. I am anxious for interviews with Pakistan officials.
40 minutes. My thoughts are with those who once again, were asked to go on a very dangerous mission. As they have been doing for almost ten years. I hope we get to meet them soon. As David Gregory said last night - breathtaking.
We know troops were going to start leaving Afghanistan in a few months. There would have been a real sense of job not quite done, if we had left with bin Laden still alive. It would have been a real tragedy after all our military had accomplished. And sacrificed.
Cicero
Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all others.
Joe in Albany
Congratulations to President Obama, and the U.S. military and intelligence professionals for a job well done
Joe let me Congratulate you on putting partisanship aside this Mundane Morning.
Navy:
I am so proud of those Navy Seals and the hard work of our Armed Forces. I have said it before, but it is worth repeating, Thank you for your service.
Joe in Albany, let me join you in non-partisan congratulations to all involved in this mission for a job well done!
An interesting and cynical view. It didn't help Bush because he didn't get Saddam in the first place and there were no weapons of mass destruction. By the time Bush found Saddam -- by total and complete accident, by the way -- he was beyond help to most thinking people.
Obama, on the other hand, and by your own analysis, obviously did not do this for the sake of the polls, did he?
Think about that. And then decide who you would really rather have in charge -- a preening republican peacock along the same lines as George W. Bush -- or, dare we say it, Donald Trump? -- or Barack Obama.
Thank you Joe in Albany. We can disagree about much of what has happened over the intervening years, but I hope all can agree on two things;
The task was started with good intentions for the pursuit of justice nearly 10 years ago.
The task was finished with equally good intentions for the pursuit of justice last night.
I'm waiting for No jo and Joanna's comments, criticisms and conspiracy theory's with this. i know both of them will be coming out of left field.
You're a good American, Joe, Albany. And, our special ops people are the absolute best in the world!
Joe in ALbany:
Thank You.
@ Chris, Cranbury ~ LoL I'm in pretty powerful company, by your calculus. If only.
In that case, we'd be planning the parties to welcome home the troops and figuring out how we're going to re-deploy all those resources we've been spending in Southwest Asia.
I recommend fixing potholes and re-energizing schools, and guaranteed health care for Grandma, as a pretty good start.
Thank you, Joe in Albany; well said, and much appreciated.
It's very heartening to see that in 20 posts (or more by the time I finish typing this) there has been only one veiled personal attack and instead, a unified and hearty "Good job, Obama".
To which I add my own, "Good job, Obama".
Now bring our troops home, sooner rather than later, another thing upon which there seems to be a rare moment of agreement on this vine.
side-note: I too am glad to see this mid-page ads gone. They made the whole vine clunky and hard to navigate. Good job, Newsvine.
Congratulations to our military and the special ops groups. I see on the latest news, that the lead came from plants/spies placed in Pakistan way back, 5 years ago. Way to go Bush, Obama, and our defense forces. I am so glad this is one of the few policies that Obama continued to follow from the Bush administration. Iraq and Afgan being the others. I still believe to get this budget under control we will have to cut in defense just like every where else.
I noticed as well, they're conspicuously absent this morning! lol
RNC must be late getting their talking points out the them! ;o)
At least the idiot from Albany had enough grace to say something kind!
I know that was hard joe,
At least the idiot from Albany
_______________________________
Jeff and Nasty Redhead: Kiss my A$$.
Morons.
Feisty and Jeff........the silence is deafening and ...... Beautiful.
Maybe they learned if you cant say anything nice, say nothing at all. One can only, hope too bad ol'Bill of Fairfax didn't do the same.
To Joe in Albany...your post took my breath away, thank you.
I Don't Believe In Killing But....
CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL THAT PLAYED A PART!!!
Like most American, I am grAteful for our brave service men and women, thankful that bin Laden has been dispatched, and fearful for the repercussions that may be felt in the future.
We are on high alert, and should remain there for the foreseeable future. Those on this board, and all Americans, must join our service men and women in helping to keep our country and our people safe: do pay attention; do report anything suspicious- an unattended package, for example.
And, to Ira- the Econ lesson will have to wait for a few days. Today is a day for thanks and prayers. I'm sure you feel the same way.
And of course, no jo: you give FULL credit to our President, who acted with decisiveness to take out the criminal. Now, let's see if you can rewrite your statement to include that.
Without rekindling any flames of partisanship, perhaps we should do well to note the difference here:
Democrats -- with the possible exception of me -- are completely willing to afford George W. Bush credit for making an effort to find Bin Laden; republicans, on the other hand, never gave Bill Clinton any credit at all, and in fact, some even blamed him for September 11.
There's a certain mindset here that Joe and others have managed to overcome today, but all should keep in mind going forward. This is not about party. Unless you make it about party.
With sincere gratitude to President Obama for his leadership, with thanks to our Armed Forces for their service. We have much to be thankful for this day. Now, let's see if we can start to bring our men and women home from the wars. Kadafi, you may want to think about what just happened to Bin Laden. Good time for you to abdicate power.
NDD--
NEVER going to happen - her HEAD would EXPLODE if she had to give the President credit for ANYTHING!
Hey NJ nut job - it's called Leading from BEHIND the scenes!
Do carry on in your village of ConservatiVille - Land of delusions and by your own words - home of the AFRAID!
Well, she is under the delusion that ANYONE cares what she has to say about the Economy. Lesson indeed.
i think it will be right to call president obama, mr. precise. his answers then were spot on.
once again, to all who've lost lost their lives, the seals our grate men and women in the military uniform and their families, this victory is yours for your scarifies has been enormous.
the true mission has been accomplished.
Joe, just as you are no fan of President Obama I was no fan of President Bush. Your reaction to the news of the day is the same as my reaction would have been had President Bush announced the death of bin Laden and for that, sir, I commend you.
Please let me join the world (And Joe) in saying "THANK YOU Mr. President" for a job well done.
You increased the number of boots on the ground when the rest were screaming to bring the troops home (and I was one of them).
You quadrupled the drone attacks.
You never lost sight of the objective. Get Bin Laden.
You came, You Saw, You lead us to a real victory, not a sham "Mission Accomplished" banner 8 years too soon. Thank you for not wearing a flight suit and for looking and acting Presidential.
You DID IT!
All real Americans, right and left, should be celebrating our victory. Put politics aside for today and congratulate a young President who got the job done.
No more name calling, no more hate or division. WE ARE ALL AMERICANS, let us come together and celebrate this victory! This is a time for celebration, not politics.
GOOD JOB MR. PRESIDENT. Outstanding work by our men and women in the service. We're the best, let's rise above petty political bickering today and act like THE BEST.
God Bless America and the President of the United States.
I believe both Feisty and Geraldo Rivera are in dire need of some Xanax this morning. :p
That said, congratulations to all those involved in the pursuit of Osama bin Laden, and particular thanks to the members of the special operations team that succeeded in taking him out.
Red-letter day for the US of A~
Joe in Albany
I know that was hard joe,
At least the idiot from Albany
_______________________________
Jeff and Nasty Redhead: Kiss my A$$.
Morons.
thanks Joe
Sorry but for the next 2 years i will be kissingg the As*es of the seals and helicopter pilots that carried out that mission.
what i find interesting is that Obama gave the go ahead for the mission friday, went to Alabama to see the damage from the twisters, then went to campaign, at the same time keeping his cool knowing this could blow up in his face or be as susessfull as this was.
Very proud monument for the American military as well as the support units.
Excellent post Beverly (as usual).
In listening to the various networks this morning, it is obvious that this event began in 2004 in a little interrogation room at Gitmo. KSM apparently gave the name of UBL's courier. Through two administrations, the connecting the dots utilizing policies and tactics put in place after 9/11 finally came to fruition. This truly is a "Mission Accomplished" moment just like the fall of Iraq was -- however both are/were just one mission and neither are the end of the war.
Obama had kept many of President Bush's policies (which he bashed during the campaign and swore to close Gitmo) operatives in place including John Brennan and Robert Gates who also deserve credit in accomplishing this task. Obama did show wisdom in maintaining what was put in place. Sometime reneging on campaign promises is a good thing.
One could make the case that Obama was clueless as to what was happening up until the final moments of UBL's life. Why would anyone totally revamp a section of government before this event took place? To throw Al Qaeda off guard? Nah, they are not that stupid. Doesn't make sense.
Pakistan and other Middle East countries are not our friends. I believe there is a passage from James that is applicable: "Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God." We need to take heed!
Congratulations to our intelligence community, the military, and especially the shooters who, last week, entered the Usama compound, eliminated Usama, and brought the body back for DNA confirmation.
And while I am not a fan of Obie, I must give him credit for signing-off on the operation that was carried out without the aid of the Pakistan government.
Good job military!
You bring a knife a fight... we bring a gun~!....
SEE YOU IN HELL BIN LADEN...YOU WILL NOT REST IN PEACE...
sorry for posting this twice... I just feel very strongly about it.
During the presidential debates, Obama said: if we have actionable intelligence that Osama is hiding in Pakistan, we will go in there and kill him. (I'm paraphrasing). He was chided by the right and the left for being too naive... THANK YOU MR. PRESIDENT for keeping your word. OSAMA BIN LADEN WANTED DEAD or KILLED (not alive)... that P.O.S does not deserve the dignity of a court system.
I'm happy, but still so angry at that Mother- FF-er
Mark, Chuck:
The sad note on this story. For some time now, presidential elections have been won more because of a vote against someone, rather than for someone.
As exciting as this story is today, it will fade away as the budget comes back to the top during the election. Then and only then will we see how that subject is handled by either side.,
A day for America to say Justice is done - but we still have to be on guard.
Pres. Obama epitomizes an earlier president (one of the Roosevelts) - Walk softly but carry that BIG stick!"
Fiesty & Jeff: Why not leave it alone, FOR ONE DAY ? Joe in Albany expressed what many are expressing, gratitude to our President and the troops involved. You can always go back to being mean tomorrow.
Chris, Cranberry, NJ: really LOL, just too funny :D
dirp101
Fiesty & Jeff: Why not leave it alone, FOR ONE DAY ? Joe in Albany expressed what many are expressing, gratitude to our President and the troops involved. You can always go back to being mean tomorrow.
Chris, Cranberry, NJ: really LOL, just too funny :D
Ok for you i will, but since the man took office no matter what he does they always have something negative to say!!!! today Joe in albany said what should have been said, and i was JUST give him alittle greaf for it.
i was taken back by the time line of this mission, he gave the go ahead friday, went to alabama the same day while keeping his cool, if it were me, i would have stayed at the whitehouse till the mission was complete.
Just announced on MSNBC Cable. The intial lead came from Gitmo. The person, the lead suggested, was spotted by Bush's plant in Pakistan. The intelligence community then tracked and followed him to bring down Bin Laden. Thank you Pres Bush for the work you did in getting this evil person off this earth. Thank you Pres Obama for following Bush's lead. Thank You to the Defense Dept for pulling this special operation off.
I know now why Obama changed his approach to Gitmo. Way to learn Pres Obama.
Excellent post caradjt!!!!
The cycle of events that led to this attack began during the last administration. It is proper and just to credit the men and women in both administrations who made the decisions that brought us here. Only crediting your favorite political party for this is unfair and blatantly dishonest.
Lastly: an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.
Feisty and Jeff 154 take note on these posts from these fellow americans.
Joe in Albany - Congratulations to President Obama, and the U.S. military and intelligence professionals for a job well done.
Caradjt - Congratulations to our military and the special ops groups. I see on the latest news, that the lead came from plants/spies placed in Pakistan way back, 5 years ago. Way to go Bush, Obama, and our defense forces.
JoAnna Smith - Certainly this a time to celebrate, but who exactly should be celebrated? It is more important to have quiet reflection as to where this journey has brought us, and what sacrifices people have made to reach this point.
NoJo – Like most Americans, I am grateful for our brave service men and women, thankful that bin Laden has been dispatched and fearful for the repurcussions that may be felt in the future.
Bill Fairfax, Va – Its great we got this guy and Obama stands to get his share of the credit.
Safecracker - And while I am not a fan of Obie - Spelling, I must give him credit for signing-off on the operation that was carried out without the aid of the Pakistan government.
Good job military!
Why thank you Mark!
Somehow I missed all the glowing praise for the President and him getting the JOB done!
You might want to wonder over to page 3 & 4 of this thread and see what the 'real' Americans have to say...
Certainly time this Evil Rabid Dog is removed from our planet! Sorry it took so long! Congratulations to our military.
Anyone who credits the president with catching Osama Binladen is retarded. Military has been working on it for 10 years it does not make a difference who is in office when they finally caught him.
This should be a moment of bi-partisan support for the actions of President Obama and the military. I support the decision to carry out this mission and glad top see it executed succesfully with no casualties on our side.
It bothers me though, to read the posts above and see so many lashing out with hatred and 'I told you so." messages. This wasn't the work of one man or even one administration, but very hard work by many people over a long period of time. Until recently it was beleived OBL was hiding in the Tribal areas, that was obviously a mistake or a calculated misdirect by our intellegence sources in the region.
Last night the President talked about unity and coming together, but a lot of you must have missed that, because you are openly making this a partisan victory. This is not a victory for democrats or republicans, this is a victory for all Americans and the rest of world that values peace.
I think the lot of you who are attacking people on this board should really reconsider your position on this, and show that you can be even a little bi-partisanship, because this is not the end. If anything expect out enemies to grow more desperate and more violent in the coming weeks and months to retalliate.
Intelligence Relay: Mr. President, we have Osama in our cross-hairs.
Obama: Kill him!
Navy Seal squeezing trigger: DUH!!!
While I definitely applaud the Navy Seals that kept to the mission, I ask one question. Why did it take 10 days to reveal this to the nation. Osama Bin Laden was killed on or about April 22. I personally know one of the Seals that was on this mission and he told me yesterday that Osama was taken out 10 days ago. What is Obama up to? Why the announcement yesterday? I could understand a couple of days wait, but 10? I'll expect something weird to brew out of this. I wonder if the White House will reveal why they waited so long to make the announcement.
96ws6
Anyone who credits the president with catching Osama Binladen is retarded. Military has been working on it for 10 years it does not make a difference who is in office when they finally caught him.
Yellowdog-Mark D i see where coming from, Joe in Albany I'm sorry for my comments early, this post has me pissed, I'm sick of people using the retarded comments. its not funny,
the only credit i give the president is the decision to go head with the mission. too many things could have gone wrong and almost did, had we missed and seals were killed, president obama would be getting hammered right now.
96ws6 the fact we were looking for him for 10 years makes the decision to go head with the mission a major foreign policy win for the president and his intellegency team. i think the reason why we caught and killed him, is we left pasktan out of the loop. President Obama took a big chance not telling them but by not telling them is the reason why we were sucessfull.
for me paskistan has been part of the problem with not finding Bin ladin.
Now where do we go from here, should we pull out of afgan and
Thank you to all the lefties that took credit and gave credit to Pres Obama. It is very clear now that the facts are surfacing that Pres Obama had the least to do with this success of the 3 players involved. #1 to our defense forces, #2 to Pres Bush, #3 to Obama for following Pres Bush's lead.
Just announced on MSNBC Cable. The initial lead came from Gitmo. The person, the lead suggested, was spotted by Bush's plant in Pakistan. The intelligence community then tracked and followed him to bring down Bin Laden. Thank you Pres Bush for the work you did in getting this evil person off this earth. Thank you Pres Obama for following Bush's lead. Thank You to the Defense Dept for pulling this special operation off.
I know now why Obama changed his approach to Gitmo. I know now why the News conference was not turned into a campaign event. Pres Obama knew most of the ground work and the Bush Doctrine was the correct way to proceed and most of the credit for the behind the scenes work would and should go to Pres Bush. Way to learn Pres Obama.
Congratulations goes out to Obama and all the men an women who have been hunting this scumbag for over ten years. To go beyond that seems to be silly. I will say that Obama followed through on his promise with determination but that has never been a question of his character. Outside of all that it changes little the other problems he faces as President. While the leader is dead, the body of Al Qaeda is still alive more like the mythical hydra than the snake. We still must be vigilant for attacks from this group until their fervor dies out from popularity with the disillusioned.
Obama still has tremendous problems facing him as president and this moment, sweet as it may be does not change that. His domestic policies are still placing a great strain on the economy, and his team is still inept as ever at solving them. One battle spanning ten years has been won through the combined efforts of two administrations and thousands tasked to make it happen. To give Obama more credit than doing his job and being in the right place at the right time for this moment would be wishful thinking.
Beverly in Chicago
Beverly, I think your link is to a fake pic that has been circulating for a while. The U.S. government said they did in fact take photos of the corpse, but haven't decided yet to release them because they are "very graphic.
Thank you Mr. Obama!
We need you for 4 more years! The reforms we want have been started, but MUCH more needs to be done. In the next term, we can get the necessary policies pushed through to finally put an end to capitalism-dominated economy of the United States.
We can cut the military budget WAY back, close numerous bases, and cancel defense contracts that only cost us too much money. Then we will have the funding for the increases we want in social spending.
We need to nationalize as many businesses and corporations as necessary to meet our goals, even if that means confiscating personal property.
We need to raise the tax rates on the wealthy high enough to render them middle class and truly level the playing field. We can confiscate all inheritance to insure that no-one receives an unfair advantage. We CAN enforce fairness.
We need to finally pass laws that make anti-Obama and anti-progressive speech a hate crime.
Of course there will be the usual crowd of conservative rednecks that will scream about "socialism", so we need much stronger gun laws or even downright gun bans to keep them from slowing down the rest of us who want progress.
Vote Obama 2012!!!
I love how we can make a political debate out of even good things. Let's enjoy our victory and not minimize it with political spin. Obama did a good job finishing what Bush started. If it would have taken 12 years to find the guy, there may have been someone else taking credit for something that he only had a part in. Good job by the Navy Seals and intelligence agencies. Bush said that OBL would be brought to justice or justice would be brought to him. Obama did a good job following through on the promise.
IMO, this just proves that difficult task do carry on from administration to administration. Yes, the "real name" of the courier was found from someone at Gitmo. Would the same information have been received if the prisoner who released the information was at Leavenworth or some other prison, we'll never know or be able to know.
The reality is, President Obama told Leon Penatta to make this the CIA's number one priority. That is a true demostration of presidential leadership, directing the actions of the agencies and people within the government to accomplish a goal for the country. Does anyone remember what Mitch McConnell said the Republican Parties' number one priority would be ?
I think that if President Bush, Vice President Cheney and Secretary Rumsfeld had made the capture or death of OBL their first priority, instead of venturing into Iraq, the world would be different. We'll never know what might have been.
Congratulations to the CIA and the military for accomplishing this most difficult of assignments. And, congradulations to President Obama for authorizing the mission.
To all you bleeding heart liberals, the military and CIA deserve the credit here, it did not matter who was President. I'm glad it happened, but this is the first positive thing that has happened during this administration, I'm sure the liberals and the press will try to keep it in the forefront as long as possible. But when it gets rights down to it, our Special Forces and Intell people deserve the credit. But all the liberal a** kissers will be singing praises to the wrong people, as usual.
Skiddy: as one of the BHL's, I happen to think that who is the President does matter. The President sets the priorities for the nation. President Obama made capturing or killing OBL a top priority. President Bush made removing Saddam Hussein from power a priority. It does matter.
I have already pointed out, the CIA and the Military deserve the top credit. But credit does deserve to be given to President Obama as well. When the team does will, you congradulate the players, but you give the coach credit too.
Skiddy,
You are an idiot. Spending way to much time reading "Dummies guide to Republican spin!"
I am surprised you can not even follow the facts from MSNBC. Even they are putting credit where it is due. Just keep following that dillutional blue flag right off the cliff. Time for some lefties to eat crow.
Thank you to all the lefties that took credit and gave credit to Pres Obama. It is very clear now that the facts are surfacing that Pres Obama had the least to do with this success of the 3 players involved. #1 to our defense forces, #2 to Pres Bush, #3 to Obama for following Pres Bush's lead.
Just announced on MSNBC Cable. The initial lead came from Gitmo. The person, the lead suggested, was spotted by Bush's plant in Pakistan. The intelligence community then tracked and followed him to bring down Bin Laden. Thank you Pres Bush for the work you did in getting this evil person off this earth. Thank you Pres Obama for following Bush's lead. Thank You to the Defense Dept for pulling this special operation off.
I know now why Obama changed his approach to Gitmo. I know now why the News conference was not turned into a campaign event. Pres Obama knew most of the ground work and the Bush Doctrine was the correct way to proceed and most of the credit for the behind the scenes work would and should go to Pres Bush. Way to learn Pres Obama.
Congrats to our military and special ops and the CIA for getting this done. Congrats to Obama for having the courage to order the trigger pulled. A number of democrats would have waffled around. I am pleasantly surprised that he got it done.
For those of you posters trashing Bush. Even on MSNBC, there is substantial documentation that this trail took multiple years to follow to find Osama. The original intelligence regarding the couriers was obtained during the Bush years.
War against terrorists is hell. War against terrorists takes many years and these wars will frequently span presidential terms.
I am proud of Obama. I am proud of our military. You would be wrong to say that the policies of Bush/Cheney had no bearing on yesterday's events.
Obama has maintained the vast majority of the policies of the Bush/Cheney administration despite criticizing them as a candidate. That means he has grown and better understands the risks to our country. That also means that as imperfect as some policies are, they are the best we got.
Caradjt,
Ditto!
Skiddy,
If it did not matter who was President why didn't Bush bag him? He had 7 years afterall.
GOOD JOB MR. PRESIDENT.
Oh, the partisans are at it again. I'll say it, ad nauseum, this is why they have no say in who gets elected President these days.
It was right for Bush to launch the invasion of Afghanistan. It was right for Obama to kill Bin Laden in Pakistan. Only radicals with foam bubbles constantly leaking from their lips argue about which was more important. If someone wants to bring a different topic up and talk about partisanship being useful, fine. But as far as killing Bin Laden goes, the only losers are Bin Laden and those who still can't think long enought to realize a President has as much to do with the success as those who pulled the trigger.
And of course, well done, trigger puller ;)
Good news to start the week, it is a shame that the leftys use this to share their hate comments (not a surprise though).
I am very proud of the President has reversed his position on Gitmo, and our involvement in Afghanistan- once he became the President, he soon realized what the world is really like and adjusted his thinking.
I still disagree with his other policies, but he has the right to have them.
Thanks to our service men and woman who defend our freedoms, and all you who like to blame Bush- it is no surprise to see you did not give him any credit- you show your bias or lack of objectivity.
To all of you claiming President Obama had no choices here;
He could insist that Pakistan is a soverign nation and we can't even conduct operations there.
He could insist that Pakistan be fully briefed before beginning an operation, allowing terrorist-sympathizing forces within the government to warn OBL.
He could insist that Pakistan detain OBL and give him to us, ensuring that nothing is done.
He could give some sort of "Axis of Evil" speech involving Pakistan, ensuring that they never again cooperate with the US in any fashion.
He could directly challenge their sovereignty and boldly assert we'll do any darn thing we please, weakening our allies within Pakistan.
He could insist on a burden of proof so high that we never take action.
He could work on a burden of proof so low we're blowing up new "bin Laden homes" on a weekly basis, repeatedly killing innocents.
So you can see there's an entire range of options that either wouldn't bring OBL to justice or would ensure negative repercussions afterward. President Obama didn't do any of those things. He was careful but not paralyzingly so, direct but not dangerously so, and took action that technically violates Pakistan's sovereignty, while giving them room to retain their legitimacy.
So quit you whining. The President got it right. Deal with it.
John B: well said !!!
Congratulations to our military, intelligence agencies, President Obama, President Bush and everyone else responsible for running this guy down. The lead came from a gitmo detainee and was followed up to the inevitable end result. For those wondering why the President waited a week or so to announced maybe it was that cache of intelligence data they picked up in the compound that needed to be followed up on. I also noticed that the price of oil has dropped. As for President Obama, I give him credit for the guts it took to go into Pakistan to get Bin Laden, the CIA had a chance during the Clinton years to get a lot of top terror leaders including bin laden attending a funeral of one their own and declined due to Pakistan sovereignty. I noticed that President Obama called President Bush to give him the news about Bin Laden and President Bush's statement echoed President Obama's. I also noticed that Neither Presdent's Bush or Obama blamed Islam or Muslims for Bin laden. While we can agree to disagree with President Obama's policies, we can all agree that no matter what the United States of America stands taller today thanks to the actions of all involved in this occasion.
This would be so much more meaningful if it didn't highlight the fact that Obama never should have removed general McChrystal, as it was him who made JSOC the success it is. Generals need to be able to do their jobs, not worry about kissing political ass, MsChystal clearly knew his job and was good at it:
"When Gen. Stanley McChrystal became JSOC's commanding general in 2004, he and his intelligence chief, Maj. Gen. Michael Flynn, set about transforming the way the subordinate units analyze and act on intelligence. ...The way JSOC solved this problem remains a carefully guarded secret, but people familiar with the unit suggest that McChrystal and Flynn introduced hardened commandos to basic criminal forensic techniques and then used highly advanced and still-classified technology to transform bits of information into actionable intelligence. One way they did this was to cr
eate forward-deployed fusion cells, where JSOC units were paired with intelligence analysts from the NSA and the NGA. Such analysis helped the CIA to establish, with a high degree of probability, that Osama bin Laden and his family were hiding in that particular compound.
The military has begun to incorporate these techniques across the services. And Flynn will soon be promoted to a job within the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, where he'll be tasked with transforming the way intelligence is gathered, analyzed, and utilized."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_exclusive/20110502/pl_yblog_exclusive/the-secret-team-that-killed-bin-laden
One gets recalled by the president for political show the other gets promoted.
On this day, Pres. Obama, Commander in Chief, made me proud to be be an American again. We finnally got a victory worth cheering about. And he didn't say , "mission accomplished", because he has too much class. Class, something TP/Repubs can't recognize.
Illuminatti? Perhaps there is some joy left in the conspiratorial crowd.
Sorry pjam, generals aren't free to openly criticize the CIC and the policies of the Administration. They never have been and should never be.
It was true when Abraham Lincoln said to General McClellan, "If you don't want to use the army, let me borrow it for a while."
It was true when General McArthur tried to force Harry Truman to nuclear war by deliberately disobeying orders and causing a massive reaction from the Chinese in Korea.
It's certainly true of the Runaway General, who openly criticized the President in front of the press and allowed his staff to do the same thing. McChrystal believed President Obama to be a weak man who could be bullied. He found out otherwise.
To the people who posted at the top of this thread. Some of you have been around a long time and I have read your posts for almost a year now. Even though most of your posts are severely biased to one political party. I always thought you had some good points. However I also thought you were smart enough to not make this about partisan drivel.
We all know it took many years and thousands of deaths by our military personnel to make this day possible. To come on here and make this about Obama versus Bush you took all credibility away from yourselves.
It's very shameful that on a day like today you turn this into a circus of partisan hate. All that voted for your comments are just as guilty.
I do not mean to single one person out because several of you are guilty of it. However with a name like retired us navy vet you would think the first order of recognition would go to the fallen soldiers who were in pursuit of this murderous terrorist for almost a decade.
Good luck to all Americans it seems we will never learn.
Skiddy writes:
"To all you bleeding heart liberals, the military and CIA deserve the credit here, it did not matter who was President. I'm glad it happened, but this is the first positive thing that has happened during this administration, I'm sure the liberals and the press will try to keep it in the forefront as long as possible. But when it gets rights down to it, our Special Forces and Intell people deserve the credit. But all the liberal a** kissers will be singing praises to the wrong people, as usual."
And here we go...
First and foremost, this is a GREAT DAY for America as well as the planet Earth that this "jihad happy" religion distorting piece of sh!t is finally gone!
And on that note...
OMFG...
So now it doesn't even matter who was President, right Skiddy?
So following your logic would it have mattered to those like you had we "not" got Bin-Laden and as a result of Obama's "Presidential decision" to go in without really letting the Pakistan govt. in on all the details we actually had lost more U.S. soldiers in the process?
Since in the face of this "great" news for America you still could not resist going down this typical "tit-for-tat" road of ultra-right wing "douche-bagery" solely for the self-serving purpose of "Obama bashing" to undermine his Presidency then fine, lets go there for a moment.
There are THOUSANDS of dead U.S. soldiers as well as scores of dead "innocent" Iraqi citizens who are no longer alive as a "direct" result of an earlier "Presidential decision" to shift hunting down that 9/11 a$$hole as America's #1 priority in favor of invading the country of another a$$hole who in fact had nothing to do with the primary 9/11 a$$hole in the first place.
Would you like to explain to them how it doesn't even matter who is or "was" President?
...I'm sure they-as well as their devastated families-would just love to sit your delusional irrational "ignorant" ass down and have a little chat with you on the concept of "cause and effect" and the benefits of having someone in office who actually takes the time to "look" before making the Presidential "decision" to leap.
The child-like gaps in the sand-box logic and common sense you lunatics just seem to reflexively demonstrate is now going "beyond" disturbing, but what's even more disturbing is that at this point it has simply become the "standard" baseless "anti-anything Obama" drivel we now expect from people like yourself.
...And that "is" meant to be a "factual" statement!
Cheers
Hmm, I guess you missed the part where McChrystal was cleared of wrongdoing, John.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/18/stanley-mcchrystal-rolling-stone-investigation_n_850660.html
You'll appreciate the link, I'm sure, although I find it very curious that more was not made of this story. Perhaps POTUS should rely on more credible sources than Rolling Stone before sacking a general. It may have made him look like a tough guy to some people at the time. IMO, it made him look like a narcissist with thin skin - again, and even more so now that the whole story appears to be stretched, at best.
Carad, I thought just for once you were going to play nice today and give everyone credit. Now I see you are back to being a partisan hack and saying Obama had the least to do with this. Are you F'n serious? Bush put a plant in 5 years ago and HE gets more credit? If Obama had not made it his top priority when he took office AND he had not given the go ahead, NOTHING would have happened. With what was at stake politically for him, he had every reason in the world NOT to go ahead. With politics the way they are, a failed attempt would be his undoing.
I detested Bush and thought he failed as commander in chief, but I DO give him credit, as I do Obama and the armed forces for this mission. Grow a set and STOP playing politics for maybe half a day.
I guessed we had OBL when the scroll at the bottom of the screen on NBC said "important message from the White House regarding national security" was aired.Then about ten minutes later with NBC in "Special Report" ,mode stating OBL has been killed sources claim.
OK, I go to CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC, KTLA,KCAL,MSNBC and every other station in LA and on sattellite they're running the story pre-empting their programming.
Then I go to KTTV, the FOX network station in LA and they're covering ..... wait for it...... The Simpsons. Oh they're just late getting it together, they'll come on when the President speaks. But.......... no what are they playing on FOX network.......wait for it again......The Simpsons.
Now who's playing political with the story???? Come on you lying FOX A-holes. You decided it wasn't even news worthy.
And that celebration you saw afterwards, well now that was spontaneous, not like the tea parties organized by FOX excuse me FAUX. Why does FAUX hate America. Bastards.
If what you say is true, that is just one more reason I never watch that trash "entertainment" show of a new cast. For all the rights claim to be pure and innocent and Christians, have you ever noticed that the largest number of really trashy, immoral tv shows are ON Fox??? Hmmm, wonder how they justify all of this? Guess these are the same people who forgave Jimmy Swaggert TWICE... and forgave Newtie once he started pumping all his pac money into their religious organizations.
Carad? Are you a computer BOT????? You keep saying the same thing over and over. I GUESS you think if you say it enough, more will buy into your crap.... guess again. Even the most bitter partisans on here have sucked it up and given credit to Obama (and Bush) and the armed services. Glad to know some people can still do something upstanding. Obviously you can't.
I can personally confirm that FOX did not run the story real time. It wasn't until the 10:00 news that the story ran, hours after it broke.
Come on rightwingers, claiming FAUX is unbiased, whatta ya got to say???
Nothing, I know you won't comment on this. Why do you hate America?????
Pat, clearly you do not understand the difference betweent the FOX broadcast network, which airs the Simpsons and the Fox News Channel, which does NOT air the Simpsons.
Here's a little help for you: The network affiliate has the power to preempt, or not, the programming they get from the network on a local basis. Your FOX affiliate in LA is who should be brought to question for NOT preempting the Simpson's to cover this story.
Which has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Fox News Channel, which did cover the story - I did the same thing, flipping through channels to see who was doing what and Geraldo Rivera was covering it on Fox News.
So, your castigation of "Faux" news is a total and complete fail, since you clearly don't even understand what you're complaining about in the first place.
Grow up with your "why do you hate America" bullcrap and learn a thing or two. And remember Mark Twain's old saw: Best to keep quiet and be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Perhaps you don't understand the implication of the local FOX network affiliate channel 11, which has newscasts, and is BROADCAST not just on cable or satellite making the determination to not broadcast at all this certainly news worthy event. This in the second largest TV market in the US.
They made a "politcal statement" by playing the Simpsons instead. And yes they hate America by their "fair and balanced" coverage. How can it possibly be fair and balanced if they don't cover it at all.
Further, I did not mention FOX NEWS, only FOX broadcast network.
YOU CAN KEEP QUIET ABOUT THIS BUT I'M NOT. PRAG. YOU FOOL.
I'll be reporting you for the code of honor violation, and not bothering to attempt to explain to you the difference between national broadcast networks, cable news networks and local affiliates any further. I spent 12 years buying time on all of the above, but please. Carry on with the name calling.
I see Prag,
"So, your castigation of "Faux" news is a total and complete fail, since you clearly don't even understand what you're complaining about in the first place.Grow up with your "why do you hate America" bullcrap and learn a thing or two. And remember Mark Twain's old saw: Best to keep quiet and be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt."
So who called who a fool. Report me for the "honor violation". You can't be reported, first you have to have some honor.
Further, I did not mention FOX NEWS, only FOX broadcast network.
The True Story:
Tonight MSNBC showed video of a George W. Bush press conference where he stated that he didn't know where Osama bin Laden was, or whether he was dead or alive. He further stated that bin Laden was irrelevant and that he didn't spend a lot of time thinking about him.
Candidate Obama said during one of his debates with McCain that if they had sufficient intelligence to move on bin Laden that he would do so with or without permission from Pakistan. After he took office he raised bin Laden to the #1 terror target. He directed the mission, chose the military option to be used and authorized military action. THIS WAS NOT A FOLLOW-ON MISSION LEFT OVER FROM THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION. IT WAS A NEW PRESIDENT DIRECTING A NEW CIA CHIEF WITH A NEW EMPHASIS ON THIS TERRORIST. THE STRATEGY WAS NEW, NOT HELD OVER FROM THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION.
Congratulations to the COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF for a job well done.
Liberals promoting violence as a solution, I never thought I would see the day that they would admit it. Again, to repeat the liberal mantra, "It is all Bush's fault!" He started it, Obama just finished it. That is not the same as "accomplishing" it. It was an American effort not to be credited to any, single person.
Pat, you clearly missed the boat on the Fox you're supposed to hate, then. I guess your little left wing buddies didn't fill you in? You're wrong, in every sense of the word, in your tirade.
The Fox you're SUPPOSED to hate - like all good left wingers - is the Fox News Channel which is a CABLE channel. The Fox Network does not have "network" news in the sense that ABC, NBC and CBS does, so the news you see on your Fox affiliate is local - local talent and local control over the time slot and preemptions. The Fox News Channel and the Fox Broadcast Network are owned by the same entity, but they operate very, very differently. They also operate differently as a whole than the "big three" do as relates to their cable channels, especially NBC and MSNBC/CNBC.
As to honor, you have none when you prenend to be indignant about something and your indignation is based on a total and complete lack of understanding of the facts as they exist. Pointing that out is not a COH violation, and I'm sick unto death of the circle the wagons false righteous indignation from the left when they have no idea what they're talking about in the first place.
Fox network is the "over the air" broadcast arm of FOX. They have news programs. Other independent stations not network affiliated ran the story on local news broadcasts live. As I stated, not everyone has cable and as such the broadcast stations have an obligation to pass news to their viewers. Are you going to tell me they haven't gone into "Special Report" mode before during a national news event. They most definitely have. KTTV could have done so easily as they have in the past for important events, they chose not to.
This is undoubtedly a political statement much in keeping with what the non-right wing have come to expect from FOX. No amount of your splainin is gonna change that.
I was watching CBS at the time. They put a crawl up shortly before 10:30pm EDT and preemptd right around 10:30pm (9:30 in my time zone). That's what networks have done for DECADES when a major news event occurs. If Fox didn't, that says something.
x
I love it when you save PRIME real estate for me!
I just want to say how very proud I am of America and ALL Americans. I am thrilled to hear this was the same SEALS OPS that rescued Captain Phillips. Talk about your GO TO Squad!
I am too high for haters today! Are we so partisan that we can't enjoy even THIS moment of unity?
That is SAD. Terribly sad.
XX
Osama bin Laden. Congratulations to the US military, the Special Ops, Leon Panetta and his CIA, President Obama, and the others involved for keeping the promise to find and kill or capture Osama bin Laden wherever he was hiding. President Obama did not hang a Mission Accomplished banner behind him last night; instead he made a statement, informed us of the events leading to bin Laden's death. The timeline was obvious, President Obama kept his promise.
This is a victory for every American, right or left, but politics will enter the discussion sooner, not later. I cannot help but comment how petty and Marco Rubio, John McCain appeared by last night having earlier in the day declared that our President does not lead. I cannot help but comment that Pawlenty, Romney, Palin, Bachmann, Trump, Rubio, McCain and those in GOPTP who used the talking point that the president does not lead were last night, relegated to the absurdly irrelevant and uninformed little kid's table.
I was reminded of a thread on FR speaking of "leaving from behind" and how quickly conservatives adopted and used that comment to degrade our President. "Leading from behind" is the perception the GOPTP and the media feeds the public. The truth is President Obama is leading quietly, behind the scenes.
Osama bin Laden, an evil man is dead; we have closure on 9/11 even though we continue to fight the terrorism he spawned. Today, we salute our fine military and unite in the knowledge that justice is served to evil however long it takes.
Jody, Iowa
I was reminded of a thread on FR speaking of "leaving from behind" and how quickly conservatives adopted and used that comment to degrade our President. "Leading from behind" is the perception the GOPTP and the media feeds the public. The truth is President Obama is leading quietly, behind the scenes
I think we can work on that as a campaign slogan. What do you think we can come up with?
Jody -
Thanks for hitting the nail precisely on the head once again. I've said on here more than once that much as we would like to pretend otherwise, none of us have security clearances, none of us get to eavesdrop on the constant flow of phone calls and e-mails through the Oval Office, and none of us have the slightest access to the thousands of military and intelligence briefings that go on in the White House every day, yet we would all like to believe we're capable of providing "expert" commentary and critiques of things we know absolutely nothing about. I have always had faith that our President, our intelligence community and especially our troops are doing far more than they will ever get just credit for, and this mission - reportedly eight months in the making - just reinforces that. Congratulations and a heartfelt thanks to all involved on a job well done.
And congratulations to Jody for coming up with the headline of the day:
"Leading From Behind the Scenes".
Jody-
My sentiments exactly.
I was heartened to learn that VP Cheney actually congratulated the President!
I am so proud of our President and the fact the he made UBL a top priority and that our brave armed forces personnel were able to carry out the mission flawlessly.
A great day for America!
Congratulations to our military and the special ops groups. I see on the latest news, that the lead came from plants/spies placed in Pakistan way back, 5 years ago. Way to go Bush, Obama, and our defense forces. I am so glad this is one of the few policies that Obama continued to follow from the Bush administration. Iraq and Afgan being the others. At least Obama has 3 things going for him. I still believe to get this budget under control we will have to cut in defense just like every where else.
Great post, Jody---once again President Obama has demonstrated that he does go about things in his own way----that is the change he promised us and he continues to deliver.
I certainly don't expect Republicans to agree with everything the President does. I applaud those who offer him congratulations on this event---it shows they are bigger people than their rivals. What I find amusing is that the Republicans choose to criticize the President for the same things that they cited before his election--lack of readiness, leadership, etc. Surely by now he has answered those criticisms yet they don't stop. Is it because it is all they have?
Yep, it couldn't last more than a few comments.
Out comes the hyperpartisan nonsense, finding any possible excuse to make this political.
Guess what, people? Political oponents ..... oppose. Deal with it. I'm quite sure every breath Bush took was a reason for disdain from ya'll, wasn't it - and much of it was deserved. It certainly was for Democratic leaders at the time. Yet somehow, with Obama, you seem to expect zero opposition?
And as much as I applaud Obama for this action and the seemingly unquestionable positive result, I still question completely his decisions in Libya - where it certainly does appear he's "leading from behind".
Thanks. It is a great day. Leading from Behind the Scenes works!
Jody, excellent post. Thank you for the succinct observation on how our President works......works for me too.
Pragmatic....the truth is, on Libya, he is leading and doing a fine job of it. The US cannot afford another go it alone, take the lead war plus one other thing that too many on the right forget: if the US goes into Libya and fights from city to city, it means the US has invaded another middle eastern, Muslim, country. That's the last perception the US needs. Being strong and leading strong often means recognizing something other than being #1, being the macho power. Being strong means being willing to acknowledge that sometimes strength comes from a willingness to accept that we cannot do it alone and accept that others can and must do some of the work.
You bring a knife a fight... we bring a gun~!....
SEE YOU IN HELL BIN LADEN...YOU WILL NOT REST IN PEACE.
Jody, how do you reconcile that opinion with the fact that children were killed by NATO air strikes? It doesn't matter to me that they were Gadafi's grandchildren. Were they therefore somehow derserving of a fiery, violent death because of who their grandfather is?
I'm not suggesting we should have "gone it alone", I'm suggesting we should not have gotten involved at all, for the very reasons you state.
It's astounding to me how some people, apparently you included, Jody, can justify ANYTHING Obama does - that if Bush had done the same thing, you would be raging against him and calling for his prosecution as a war criminal. Which is exactly what happened after the Iraq war began, with large, bi-partisan majority support in both houses of Congress. I'm fully aware the situations are not identical, but they are similar enough: a despotic leader that kills his own people at will, while ruling with an iron fist that allows no freedom.
Now we've thrown in our support behind a ragtag bunch of untrained rebels that in virtually any other situation would be considered criminals, about whom we know very little. Gadafi is still killing his own people, he's not stepping down and the extreme factions in the middle east are calling that attack a war crime, since assisination is forbidden by international law. Luckily, so far, they're not blaming the US specifically, but they've attacked the Italian and British embassies in Tripoli. How does this end?
In summation, I did not support the invasion of Iraq AND I do not support the current actions in Libya. For that matter, I did not support a full-scale invasion of Afg either. For me, it's a matter of consistency of principle: either we think we are justified in meddling in another country's affairs .... or we don't. I don't.
Pragmatic, I am with you whole-heartedly in your synopsis of our involvement in Libya and how we conduct ourselves with so little consistency in the application of principle and purpose.
However, once we've gone and got our nose caught in a bear trap, it is ill-advised to try and wrench free with no regard for the consequences. I would like to think that, in the future, we will eventually learn to apply a foreign policy that relies on that aforementioned consistency over anything else.
Jody -- Excellent posts as always.
The Middle East is currently going through historic transformation. It is important for the US to use caution and care. We must be strategic, getting involved only where invited, hunting terrorists who have attacked the West (Bin Laden, Qaddafi), or to prevent genocide. We must be patient, being certain Americans are safe, being certain not to arm rebel forces who may become our enemy tomorrow. We must be mindful of American life and treasure, and to be a model for what we believe in.
I have been very grateful that President Obama is our leader during these times. And today I continue to be grateful for him, and our men and women in uniform--our Navy Seals! I hope we can draw down our troops and bring as many of them home as soon as possible.
Jody, can't you and your liberal friends, just for once, make a comment without bashing President Bush? As a Republican, I like to congratulate President Obama for continuing the policies put in place by President Bush. He didn't lose sight of the mission and made sure it was completed. Sure, I strongly disagee with President Obama on his political philosophy and policies; but I know he, like all Presidents, is focused on the safety of the US. The original info/intel for this operation come from Gitmo, was followed over the years by both administrations, and carried out by our military and intel services! We must give credit to President Bush, President Obama, our intel community; and most of all the wonderful men and women of our armed services; especially seal team #6!! Congratulations Mr President in bringing the mission (OBL) to conclusion.
Yes,
Maybe Obama can work this into a bumper-sticker slogan to bolster his lackluster campaign. He will certainly need some kind of slogan to run on. He obviously can't run on his record.
"Hope and change" is used up. and has turned into a joke.
"Yes, we can" has turned into "we thought we could"
"It's all Bush's fault" Doesn't float anymore.
Good luck Barrack.
Just announced on MSNBC Cable. The initial lead came from Gitmo. The person, the lead suggested, was spotted by Bush's plant in Pakistan. The intelligence community then tracked and followed him to bring down Bin Laden. Thank you Pres Bush for the work you did in getting this evil person off this earth. Thank you Pres Obama for following Bush's lead. Thank You to the Defense Dept for pulling this special operation off.
I know now why Obama changed his approach to Gitmo. I know now why the News conference was not turned into a campaign event. Pres Obama knew most of the ground work and the Bush Doctrine was the correct way to proceed and most of the credit for the behind the scenes work would and should go to Pres Bush. Way to learn Pres Obama.
"Walk Softly and carry a big stick"
Do you have ANYTHING else to say today, caradjt? You made your opinion clear long ago, now you're almost spamming.
Well said, JoAnne. I have a security clearance, now inactive since I completed my military career last fall. It always amazed me when I read people claiming to know the "facts" of a matter, when I actually did know the details and could see just how far some people would go to invent their truth. At times I was in positions with access to very sensitive material. I saw just enough in my career to realize that even the access I had was only a small glimpse of what our government and military does behind the scenes every day.
Today, and maybe tomorrow, those special ops guys will get a lot of praise from the American public. But next week and next month, they'll still be on the job, and most of what they do goes unknown and unacknowledged by Americians. President Obama did good to acknowledge them.
"John" how is that crow going down? Just keep following that dillutional blue flag right off the cliff.
It is very clear now that the facts are surfacing that Pres Obama had the least to do with this success of the 3 players involved. #1 to our defense forces, #2 to Pres Bush, #3 to Obama for following Pres Bush's lead.
Just announced on MSNBC Cable. The initial lead came from Gitmo. The person, the lead suggested, was spotted by Bush's plant in Pakistan. The intelligence community then tracked and followed him to bring down Bin Laden. Thank you Pres Bush for the work you did in getting this evil person off this earth. Thank you Pres Obama for following Bush's lead. Thank You to the Defense Dept for pulling this special operation off. Way to learn Pres Obama.
Republicans now have negative nothing on Obama. He just does it better from his release to the ha ha funny's to the death nail in the coffin plus a side of health care for all. Brilliant man indeed and as a friend of mine I say right on. Republicans tea baggers have already begun the end of it all for there respective selves and what they have tried to do to Americans through unions the "Ryan" plan and tax cuts plus they haven't created not ONE job well....
Out of touch is an understatement is it not? I am now waiting for Buck o boy-o to release a speech FOR Bhonner telling us all that Obama did not really do anything at all and should not have gone this alone because we need and enemy like him out there or to that effect [sic].
Thanks for the heads up, those who read me know of my close friendship with the Obamas and those reading yesterday know whats up. I got the scoop ; ]
Cheers.
Would you listen to all of these old upstarts throughout the vine speaking of overthrowing America? I wouldn't. Revolt? Overthrow the government? Because Obama got Bin laden? HA! lols. ; ] Sour grapes are in season and those on the wrong side of right are buying. PA. THET. IC.
This is all the right has is to tear it all down until we are all living like third world barbarians. They wish to have it is worse here then Mexico does. Why? Because they hate you they hate America and they hate themselves most of all. Listen to there insanity and decide;] It is all because a black man is the MOST powerful man on earth and they do not wish to live where a black man has more smarts more cash and more power then they could ever fathom let alone obtain. Luv it maan. ; ]
Cheers
It's clear from the details available that the raid on bin Laden's compound was the culmination of what used to be called "good old-fashioned detective work." Steadily, patiently, persistently, the team collected details, kept watch in people, and eventually got their man.
Whether intel came from Gitmo or any other place where prisoners were held, that information was going to be gathered. It is still best for America and our principles that Gitmo gets closed and we revert to due process of law as our country defines it.
President Obama took a much direct and aggressive role in this effort than his predecessor Bush ever did. caradjt, you simply will not admit that this Administration is far more competent that the bumblers under Bush were. Too bad for you.
No, John, this administration is not more competent than Bush's, especially based on this one situation. They are working with the benefit of Bush's competency in this specific area.
And before you start spewing back the typical liberal hate fest directed at anyone who shows even the smallest bit of support for Bush - I did NOT support Bush in much of anything during his entire eight years in office. I generally agree, on most topics, with the liberal assessment that he was the chief clown of the clown possee. But this particular issue he deserves credit for, and Obama would NOT have been able to pull this off had Bush not done what he did.
I commend Obama for staying the course, and following through. He could easily have done otherwise and NOT called the strike that killed OBL. He did the right thing, OBL is dead and instead of engaging in the typical smear fests we should all be happy about both Bush AND Obama's efforts in this area.
Exodite -
Agree, we cannot extricate ourselves without considering the consequences and that once committed, we must needs stay the course.
I'm just curious if that was your attitude toward the war in Iraq, after it was discovered that the intelligence was inaccurate and there were no WMDs.
President Obama will go down in history as one of the best Presidents we have ever had. Period.
I want to thank President Bush for his efforts to bring Osama Bin Laden to justice. There were many missteps along the way, but I know how badly President Bush wanted to avenge the blow America took on 9-11.
Here's hoping that this momentous achievement marks the day that our politicians start getting back to the business of running the country instead of their mouths.
God bless all the brave men and women throughout our military and government here and around the world who helped make this possible.
Like the President said last week, we ALL have MORE IMPORTANT things to do than pursue the fictional narrative of the week - let's get to it!
YES WE CAN AND DID!
Nashville_fan
President Obama will go down in history as one of the best Presidents we have ever had. Period.
Yes he will. We can now add Bin Laden to the list of accomplishments gooten done since FDR.
Rachel Maddow said
It turns out that a lot of things that have happened in the less than two years of this administration are the biggest or first or most important in generations. On the occasion of the Wall Street reform announcement today, Taegan Goddard at 'CQ Politics' wrote, 'Not since FDR has a president done so much to transform this country.'
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/06/26/879555/-Rachel-Maddow-Compares-Obamas-Legislative-Record-to-FDR-
I hope you and your family members are faring along okay.
Nash:
Outstanding Post.
I see on the latest news, that the lead came from plants/spies placed in Pakistan way back, 5 years ago. Way to go Bush, Obama, and our defense forces.
I still believe to get this budget under control we will have to cut in defense just like every where else.
Well said Nashville fan.
Like the President said last week, we ALL have MORE IMPORTANT things to do than pursue the fictional narrative of the week - let's get to it!
Hello Nash---hope all is well with your family.
I find it amazing how much the President multi-tasks---quietly and effectively, without feeling the need to talk about everything that he does. The Republicans and the media seem to confuse this quiet competence and focus on his job with a lack of leadership. Their mistake.
Nicely said, Nashville.
Thanks for all the feedback . . . I'm leaving for the day . . . see ya'll tomorrow!
Thank You President Obama for realizing the Bush Doctrine was the correct way to proceed in the Middle East and then following through with the original plan.
NYCGUY....couldn't agree more! I too congratulate President Obama on completing the mission to kill OBL started by President Bush!
Way to go, and thank you to our great USA military and our President Obama.
If you two remember, Bush abandoned the mission. Said he just didn't think it was that important any more. What you REALLY mean to say NYCguy, and NJJohn: is congratulations to our President for providing the munitions, the troops and allowing them to go forward and complete the mission that was abandoned.
Newday...you are truly delusional! Bush didn't 'abandoned' the mission! The operation was in the works for over 5 years, started at Gitmo which, I sure, you hate. What is really sad is that we congratulate President Obama for completion of the mission and all you can do is fine fault with President Bush. What a fool, you just show your partisian attitude. And finally, I appreciate that you can 'read my mind' and 'know' what I really meant to say....such intelligence....not!
Thank you to our Defense dept for pulling this Operation off.
Just announced on MSNBC Cable. The initial lead came from Gitmo. The person, the lead suggested, was spotted by Bush's plant in Pakistan. The intelligence community then tracked and followed him to bring down Bin Laden. Thank you Pres Bush for the work you did in getting this evil person off this earth. Thank you Pres Obama for following Bush's lead. Thank You to the Defense Dept for pulling this special operation off.
I know now why Obama changed his approach to Gitmo. I know now why the News conference was not turned into a campaign event. Pres Obama knew most of the ground work and the Bush Doctrine was the correct way to proceed and most of the credit for the behind the scenes work would and should go to Pres Bush. Way to learn Pres Obama.
Thank GOD that President Obama is in charge.
Are you really an idiot?
Or do you just play one of FR?
Hi Feisty,
Slam Dunk :-)
Bush made it clear to all Americans that Osama would be hunted down and brought in dead or alive, he said it many times and did not equivocate, only partisan weasels would foolishly deny it.
My Kudos to our brave Navy Seals on their courageous operational success!My deep congrads' also to our President and his insightful,gutsy decision to put this fundalmentalist creep down.In retropect,its evident ,as our President precluded to 3 years ago that Pakistani intelligence was a problem.His troop escalation and increased drone surveillance and attacks appear to be the tonic that worked.It seems laughable to conclude otherwise.Great leadership,God Bless the U.S.!
"NCY" do not bother the lefties now. They are all to busy eating crow.
Thank you to our great defense forces, Pres Bush, and Pres Obama for following Bush's doctrine on terror. No wonder Pres Obama changed his thoughts on Gitmo, and Bush's terror doctrine.... You are learning.
The bottom line is the United States got him under President Obama's watch.
Using the Bush Doctrine, thank you very much!
It's funny that under Bush , they couldn't capture him. So, let's just say the truth and under the Obama Doctrine they got him.
It's funny but if it were not for Bush, Obama would not have been in any position to capture Osama or anyone else, so let's speak the truth, Obama's continuation of the Bush Doctrine allowed our military to get Osama.
Bush failed. Deny that fact.
The only thing that got Bin Laden was the Obama doctrine. Paraphrasing: if we have actionable intelligence, we will go after him." And he did. Bush had nothing to do with it, and delayed it by taking the military and munitions to Iraq.
This is Panetta and Obama's baby.
Let the lefties alone while they eat their crow. Thank You GWB for laying the ground work and man power into the OBL kill. Thank you for keeping Gitmo open and getting the info. Thank you to Obama for learning that Pres Bush's doctrine on terror and Gitmo are the best thing for America.
The biggest thanks to our defense dept........
I really wasn't going to go all partisan on here but nyguy and nj john,...
If Bush hadn't FAILED on the INTEL pre 9/11 - we would have had NO REASON TO GO AFTER OSAMA in Afghanistan. And BUSH DID leave Afghanistan. Cold. To pursue his vengeance for dear old pappy.
Rewrite history as much as you want,...but those are the facts. Just because you don't like the fact that Bush SAID he wasn't concerned about Osama. And that he didn't spend much time thinking about him,...doesn't make it UNTRUE.
So, yeah, partisan on. But try using some ACTUAL data.
On March 13, 2002 then President Bush said, “We haven’t heard much from him. And I wouldn’t necessarily say he’s at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don’t know where he is. I’ll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run.”
How dumb, you dorkocrats could go back to Clinton with his failure to get Bin Laden too, why won't you give Bush the credit he deserves with his war on terror? Bush never said he wasn't going after Bin Laden, he just said it wasn't his #1 priority but Bush never left Afghanistan, so please reconsider your head up your arse opinions because they are ridiculous.
Bush never said he wasn't going after Bin Laden, he just said it wasn't his #1 priority but Bush never left Afghanistan......
He never left Afghanistan. He just pulled out most of the forces and sent them to take his revenge for pappy. Plus this.........
"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." --Washington, D.C., March 13, 2002
According to Musharraf, "there's no pressure" on him by the White House and the Pentagon to find bin Laden. "What pressure? he asked in his NBC interview. "Their [al-Qaeda] leadership, a few high level, and others mid and low level have been arrested - then we have attacked them in the mountains. We have attacked three of their very big sanctuaries in the valleys in the South Waziristan agency in tribal areas - but they're on the run now. And they're in smaller groups. Maybe there are a few more concentrations, which we don't know. But they are on the run, as far as al-Qaeda is concerned, they're on their own, surely."
By the time the merciless American B-52 bombing raids were about to begin, bin Laden had already left Tora Bora - as a number of Afghan mujahideen confirmed to Asia Times Online at the time. They said they had seen him on the other side of the frontline in late November. Hazrat Ali, the warlord and then so-called minister of "law and order" in the Eastern Shura (traditional decision-making council) in Afghanistan, was outsourced by the Pentagon to go after bin Laden and al-Qaeda in Tora Bora. He bagged a handful of suitcases full of cash. He put on a show for the cameras. And significantly, he was barely in touch with the few Special Forces on the ground.
Very well, then. Good morning and welcome to the first day of the rest of our lives. For ten years and more we have been chasing a shadow, a ghost, a fear. The shadow has now been removed, at great cost, both in lives and treasure; but it will be how we live in this morning after that determines our legacy.
Exceptional
Anna Molly -
I just got done commenting on Jody's eloquence above and now wish I had your way with words as well. Interestingly, when the "crawl" first appeared last night at the bottom of the screen that our President would be coming on shortly with a "major" announcement, it was with a mixture of excitement and dread that I waited to find out what could possibly be that important at 10:30 on a Sunday night. I live alone and most of my friends and family would have been asleep by then, so I was wishing I had phone numbers for all of the friends I've made here so we could share in whatever it was together - good news or bad. I knew I'd have to wait till this morning, but I can tell already that even with having to sift through some of the idiocy that's bound to appear sooner or later, it will still be well worth the wait to hear from people like you and Jody and Nashville and IR and Steeler Fan and Amy and and so many others whose opinions I've come to value so much. Thanks to all of you for putting into words what I so often can't.
Independent Redneck Va.
Exceptional
Indeed, where have you been IR?
Thank you all for the kind words.
JoAnne ~ Your own eloquence takes a back seat to no one. By the way, I live alone, too, and didn't see anything about it until I turned off Iron Chef America, switched on the local news, and then wandered over to Facebook, which by that time had exploded. It's good to have outlets like this for people like us to share our thoughts.
JoAnne----your voice is eloquent and I shared your thoughts of wanting to hear what my First Read friends would think of this news.
Great post, Anna Molly; that quote was perfect. Since there was nothing much on TV, I watched an old movie I had on tape. When it was over, NBC was on and there was the breaking news headline. I stayed up and watched our President speak and listening to the discussion.
Thanks to our incredible servicemen and women.
Thanks to or Great President, who goes about his job without fanfare. He will go down as one of greatest President.
It is great to see FR come together. For those who just can't bring themselves to give the President credit, your silence speak volumes.
Obama needed this distraction from the impending doom of his budget crisis.
AHHHhhhhhh, something to turn the cameras in another direction for awhile.
Anna Molly:
By the time Bush found Saddam -- by total and complete accident, by the way.
Yeah AM, no Intelligence involved there. You people are such hypocrites.
Obama, on the other hand, and by your own analysis, obviously did not do this for the sake of the polls, did he?
AM, You have been around this board long enough to know that every politician, including your savior, weighs the political ramifications of every move they make.
Edward- right you are-
And Nashville- what choice did your man Barry Obadouchebaga have? As waffling, and incompetent as his foreign policy has been so far, he couldn't take a pass at pushing the Go button on this operation even if he had wanted to.
It's a last ditch effort to turn the polls around and re-inflate his sinking approval numbers.
Thankfully this happened now so that his true colors can reemerge in short order before the next election.
The "Thanks" and "Well dones" go to the frontline forces who actually carried out the mission- and to our great country.
Boy, the right wing nuts just can't stand that our President completed the mission that Bush couldn't and wouldn't.
pmark-1871008,
It looks like you are the Un-American Butt Head Jerk of the day.
No Job1-
The un-American Butt Heads would be the clueless sheeple who fall for Barry Hussein's Koolaide-
I never did give your type much credit for smarts. You people rant and rage, and no body who matters really gives a darn what you say. Except maybe the birther/racist folks.
White Collar Auto - sitting on one of the bookshelves here in my office is the newspaper containing the story of Saddam's execution. Inside, it also has a piece recounting how he was captured. And buddy, hate to tell ya, but it wasn't intel that did it. A farmer told a patrol in the countryside that Saddam was in that hole in the ground.
The invasion of Iraq was part of a Neocon plan cooked up long before Bush was "elected" in 2000. He bungled the Afghan war when it could have been successfully concluded in fairly short order, instead going for what he assumed would be a cheap, short, "victorious" war. He lied to create the rationale - lied to the world, his own nation, and his own Cabinet members - and then bugled after the early military success. He and his military chieftains refused the advice of the CentCom commander about the actual forces needed to complete the job after putting down Saddam's forces. And the country collapsed into chaos and sectarian fighting that continues today.
The absolute incompetency of the Bush Regime, at every turn, cost this country and the world most dearly. There's no greater contrast to the idiocy and stupidity of the Bush Regime than the steady and successful performance of the Obama Administration.
Edward 107,
What a great distraction it is, if that's what you want to call it. Too bad Bush/Cheney and the Repubs didn't and don't distract themselves doing something this great instead of trying to figure out how to screw the middle class a little bit more. Sorry buddy, but that's just the reality of it.
From FR last night: "…the news that Osama bin Laden has been killed -- on Obama's watch -- is most definitely a political game-changer and appears destined to impact the contours of the 2012 presidential race…"
FR this morning: "…it will surely shape the contours of next year's presidential race….it amounts to Barack Obama's top achievement as president….it could serve to change the nation's psyche…"
Good grief, FR's cup runneth over with praise. And how tawdry. We finally get Bad Guy #1 and FR can't wait to spin it as a feather in Obama's cap. I'm glad we got him and since it happened on Obama's watch he will get credit for it. But isn't it a bit unseemly to assess the politics of this already? Isn't it a bit early to be toting up how many electoral votes this thing will be worth to the president? Heck, most of us have barely had time to pause and reflect on the notion that justice has finally been done for the man who murdered so many of us.
But since you opened the political door FR, I'll slam it right back in your face since as usual you get it wrong. Yes it's a big event, and if the election were held next month Obama might well cruise to victory. But the election is a long way off and bin Laden's death will not have nearly the immediacy then that it does today.
More to the point if Obama campaigns as the man who finally got bin Laden, will he also campaign as the man who sure as hell is glad he didn't close Gitmo? You know Gitmo, that's the place where we hold a lot of the really bad guys. The place where we interrogate those bad guys. And the place where those interrogations apparently produced some information that helped close the web that finally got bin Laden. Hmm, long live Gitmo.
It's great we got this guy, and Obama stands to get his share of the credit. But right now, I prefer to view this event through an American prism and leave the politicization for another day. A day when FR can see these things more clearly.
Good Morning Mr. Bill!
From the sound of you, you stole the NJ nut jobs stash of sour grapes! ;o)
Even the idiot from Albany could muster up the courage to give credit to where it's do!
I would suggest you put down the hatoraid at least for today, and try to enjoy the accomplishment! ;o)
Feisty- I predict the word 'jobs' will somehow re-appear now on these posts....
"But right now, I prefer to view this event through an American prism and leave the politicization for another day."
Sounds like b@llsh^t to me!! You couldn't wait to p%ss all over this!
Bill:
Good Grief: Practice, it's not hard to do. Say it to yourself before you type it, "Well Done Mr. President." For a few minutes your dislike of our President will diminish.
Bill, Fairfax VA
Good grief, FR's cup runneth over with praise. And how tawdry. We finally get Bad Guy #1 and FR can't wait to spin it as a feather in Obama's cap. I'm glad we got him and since it happened on Obama's watch he will get credit for it. But isn't it a bit unseemly to assess the politics of this already? Isn't it a bit early to be toting up how many electoral votes this thing will be worth to the president? Heck, most of us have barely had time to pause and reflect on the notion that justice has finally been done for the man who murdered so many of us
Why not? That's all we here on the right. He is a one termer., He is like Carter. 2012 can't come fast enough so we can take our country back et cetera, et cetera, et cetera!!!
I think of how delusion your side is. The only time your side yes was to tax cuts for the rich. You see now that is NOT going over well.
Congratulations to our military and the special ops groups. I see on the latest news, that the lead came from plants/spies placed in Pakistan way back, 5 years ago. Way to go Bush, Obama, and our defense forces. I am so glad this is one of the few policies that Obama continued to follow from the Bush administration. Iraq and Afgan being the others. I still believe to get this budget under control we will have to cut in defense just like every where else.
It is certainly great news that bin Laden has been found and removed from this Earth.
It is quite a bit tawdry that some are trying to attribute this as a "political game changer". Please . . . . .
Certainly this a time to celebrate, but who exactly should be celebrated? It is more important to have quiet reflection as to where this journey has brought us, and what sacrifices people have made to reach this point. From the citizens that suffered great losses on 9/11/01, to all Americans that shared their grief and loss, to the men and women that have relentlessly tracked, captured and dispatched the people responsible for that terrorism. Those are the people being cheered today. Those are the people being celebrated. And congratulations to them, and to us as a country.
Lots of young people are celebrating in the streets, many don't follow politics too closely but in two years they will still remember who made them feel good.
What JS1 means to say is: Congratulations Mr. President on your leadership, thanks to all who participated in this mission.
It would like to say GOOD JOB MR PRESIDENT.
Everyone of you, Joanna1, No Jo, all of you please join Joe in Albany and the rest of us and celebrate America's victory. This is a day to join hands, kiss each other on the street, wave flags and celebrate the men and women of our military for a job well done and a President who led them to a well deserved victory.
You've all got plenty of time between now and the election to deride and criticize, today we celebrate victory and the men and women who gave their lives to make that victory possible.
IGNORE THE NAY-SAYERS. Now is not the time for negativity.
WE ARE ALL AMERICANS, each and everyone of us and we should be celebrating a great victory.
Save that mudball for tomorrow. Today is the day for ticker-tape and confetti, for waving Old Glory and dancing in the street. Today is the NEW Fourth of July. So, celebrate, you can go back to pissing on each other tomorrow.
God Bless America, our military and the President of the United States.
Ummm, that's part of what I said in my post. Just how do you leftists around here spin that as sour grapes or not giving the president his due?
If you chose to read more carefully, you would have noticed I slammed the sycophantic spinmeisters at FR, not the president. But I know the game, by just jumping in I give you the opportunity to do your trash talk. That's the only game you know, glad I could be of service.
Bill You did not bow to their God. No Bow no support from the blue flag wavers.
Congratulations to our military and the special ops groups. I see on the latest news, that the lead came from plants/spies placed in Pakistan way back, 5 years ago. Way to go Bush, Obama, and our defense forces.I am so glad this is one of the few policies that Obama continued to follow from the Bush administration. Iraq and Afgan being the others.
I still believe to get this budget under control we will have to cut in defense just like every where else.
Bill - reading is not in their skill set.
Off topic....
Anyone else notice that scrolling has become much faster??
Bill, I believe this is what you are talking about
The Week in Political Cartoons
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Mike Lester / Rome News Tribune, Politicalcartoons.com
If the right cartoon does not come up, it is number 12 in the slideshow.
Pretty accurate. Sad, pathetic,- and really interesting that MSNBC actually carried it.
The violent death of a human being shouldn't ordinarily be a joyous occasion, but the death of Osama Bin Laden must be the exception to that rule, because I'm joyful today.
I'm also grateful to President Obama for seamlessly continuing to express the national will of the United States that Bin Laden face justice for his crimes against the innocents murdered on 9/11, and indeed, for all the victims of Al Qaeda around the world. I can't say enough about the courage and dedication of the U.S. military which has been the sword's edge in pursuit of that justice.
I'm not sure what this means relative to the overall struggle against the Islamic fundamental extremists determined to repress Western freedoms, thought, and values...hopefully Bin Laden's death will be a turning point in that fight.
Great to see the partisans trying to bring out the bad blood as fast as they can. Yes, both LEFT and RIGHT are doing this.
But keep it up guys, big parties need this to make big dollars to tell you what to think.
As for the political value of this? In the long run there will be none. If you think our economy is bad now wait until 2012 when today will look like easy street.
Can you imagine what this would have been like under Bush's watch? Bush and Cheney completely destroyed the economy in this country and still swaggered off like their crap didn't stink.
Try all you want. Bush failed. Obama did not fail. Get over it.
"NW" you should really catch up on the current news. Even MSNBC is crediting Pres Bush for his ground work and doctrine on terror. Much more credit than they are giving Obama. Make sense that Obama changed his stance on Gitmo, the trials and now he is following Pres Bush's doctrine. I know now why Obama did not turn this into a campaign show last night. He knew where all the credit belonged and he knew the news chanells would figure it out.
Thank you Defense dept, Pres Bush, and Pres Obama for learning to follow Pres Bush's lead.
Osama bin Laden is killed by U.S. forces in Pakistan
Osama bin Laden, the long-hunted al-Qaeda leader and chief architect of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the United States, was killed by U.S. forces Sunday in what officials described as a surgical raid on his luxury hideout in Pakistan.
Justice has been done.
“Revenge is an act of passion; vengeance of justice. Injuries are revenged; crimes are avenged.”
Joseph Joubert
For many years now the souls lost on September 11, 2001 and since in the pursuit of justice for the crime committed against them and We the People of the United States of America have longed for this simple Justice. Thanks to the efforts of our fine young Men and Women of the Military and several other Agencies over the intervening years cumulating in their action yesterday Justice has been served and Our Lost can rest a little easier in their Eternal Rest today.
IR:
How true. And of course there are those on the right that still will not give "Our President" his just dues for a job well done. The previous administration knew of the person back in 2004, what did they do with the information? NOTHING.
President Obama gave credit to everybody but ohhh nooooo the right on the media outlets this morning are trying to play down what "Our President" promised and delivered.
While we have taken out Bin Laden, the terror threat is still with us and we need to be as vigilant today as before. Maybe even a little more as there are people out there that will try to retaliate, not today, not tomorrow but at some point they very well may.
This is a "BFD".
Thank you Mr. President, my Commander in Chief.
US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired
Navy how right you are. OMG I used the acronym "BFF" when it should have been "BFD".
I was very pound of the Navy Seals who did it. My son would always explain to me what sharp shooters did.
The Navy Seals Who Killed Bin Laden
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/navy-seals-killed-bin-laden-13507891
How much do wanna bet the nay sayers will not believe it since his body is buried at sea.
Bev:
Great posts today. They have started already with the "he is not dead" crap. He was buried according to Islam Law. I guess it calls for him to be buried within 24 hours?? If true he was buried with more respect than he deserved in my opinion. He was buried at sea so as there would be no shrine for people to worship.
Beverly in Chicago
Independent Redneck Va.
Exceptional
Indeed, where have you been IR?
Thanks Bev. Sometimes I need to take a little time for reflection in the peace and solitude of my Blue Ridge back porch so that I don’t let my Redneck tendency to overreact to some of our more adversarial fellow posters to override my generally peaceable nature. Pure T hate it when that happens.
The question is: What took so long to hunt down one man?? Why is this attributed to Obama's "leadership"?? Did he direct the operation?? Maybe he organized the military community. LOL
Edward,
President Obama INCREASED the number of boots on the ground significantly, even when members of his own party and the electorate were criticizing him for it.
He increased the number of Intelligence operatives and quadrupled the number of drone strikes. He firmly told the Pakistanis to stay out of our way or they might get hurt and he kept his fingers on the pulse of the operation all the way to a successful conclusion.
He didn't appear on television in a flight suit underneath a banner saying "mission accomplished" when, in fact, NOTHING had been accomplished. He stayed cool and professional and behaved like a President, not a drunken cowboy.
That's why he gets the credit. He did the right thing, the right way. He led us through dark night and into the daylight.
Put your politics aside. There will be plenty of time for mud-slinging and pissing contests in the coming weeks and months before the 2012 elections.
Give this one day to the 47,000 dead and wounded men and women who made the ultimate sacrifice in the War on Terror. For this one day we are ALL AMERICANS united in a single fight and a hard fought victory.
If you can't be positive and celebrate with the rest of us why don't you step back, remain silent and let the parade pass you by. You can resume you negativity tomorrow.
Today is a time for ticker-tape parades and confetti, not mud-slinging or partisan politics. We are all on the same side today. The winning side. 9/11 has been avenged. Rejoice.
Just announced on MSNBC Cable. The initial lead came from Gitmo. The person, the lead suggested, was spotted by Bush's plant in Pakistan. The intelligence community then tracked and followed him to bring down Bin Laden. Thank you Pres Bush for the work you did in getting this evil person off this earth. Thank you Pres Obama for following Bush's lead. Thank You to the Defense Dept for pulling this special operation off.
I know now why Obama changed his approach to Gitmo. I know now why the News conference was not turned into a campaign event. Pres Obama knew most of the ground work and the Bush Doctrine was the correct way to proceed and most of the credit for the behind the scenes work would and should go to Pres Bush. Way to learn Pres Obama.
Edward: It's attributed to Obama because as president, he is Commander-in-Chief of the U.S. Military. So yes, he did direct the operation, and yes, he did organize the military community.
Skip,
So, It sounds like he actually listened to the Generals for a change. Good for him. Couple more years and he will have finished his appreticeship.
Yes, he listened to the Generals and the Intelligence Professionals, he didn't cherry-pick the intelligence like his predecessor. GBII had 7 years. He was more focused on Saddam for personal reasons. President Obama never lost focus on the real public enemy #1 and his persistence paid off. Where GBII failed, Obama succeeded.
I will be even more proud to vote for him again in 2012 and I have even greater confidence that he will be re-elected. The GOP is in disarray and Obama is looking more and more like a winner.
Place your bets and take your chances Ed, my money is on Obama, win, place and show.
Obama/Biden 2012 The Man who bagged Bin Laden
Thank you Pres Bush for doing all the ground work and keeping Gitmo open and keeping the trials there. Thanks Obama for learning GWB doctrine on terrror, gitmo, prisoner trials, were the way to go. Even MSNBC announced the major role GWB played and how Obama just had to wait for the Pres Bush's leads to come in. Eating a little crow tonight lefties????????????
The biggest thanks to the defense dept.
Thank you former President Bush for failing in the run up to 9/11 and for continuing to fumble and bumble your way through International Diplomacy by manufacturing evidence, outing CIA operatives, allowing Cheney to author Energy Policy that keeps us economically tied to the Middle East,...
too soon?
whatever caradjt...whatever.
To our brave service men and women...
To our brave men and women in our intelligence and counterterror operations...
To anyone in Pakistan who helped provide intelligence and support to this operation...
To members of the prior administration and President Bush for their work in weakening Al Queda...
To members of the current administration and President Obama for their continued and successful efforts to track down Osama bin Laden...
I simply say "Thank You!"
Well said.
Frank:
Very well said. Together we can celebrate a victory for the USA.
Frank:
Outstanding words and I thank you.
Simple, poetic and classy. Very well put.
The amazing thing to me is that this was based on intelligence gathered years ago and following a courier for at least 4 years...information on this courier was gathered years ago by men captured after 9/11. This is why I think credit is due to a lot of people across multiple administrations. Also shows the tenacity of the American people in keeping after bin Laden.
Thanks put in the order they are deserved. First and foremost to the service men who do the job daily, and did what must be done.
And thanks to the Presidents past, and present, who stuck to this. I'm no fan of the current administration, but he deserves the thanks of a grateful nation for doing this. Anyone who tries to spin this right or left, you've missed the point. We can bicker tomorrow, today, let's just enjoy the moment.
ps.
And to the ultra-left media, please don't bring us any future articles about how our president 'agonized' over this decision. I like the image I have of him right now; clear, decisive and dedicated to justice for our nation. Don't ruin it.
Angushurley,
I like the image I have of him right now too. Incompetent, indecisive, arrogant, and always campaigning. (Or on vacation)
Frank, Very well said this is a great day for America, God bless the navy seals who carried out this mission. And to all in The White House, CIA and special forces we are forever in your debt.
and to the POTUS, way to do what you promised to do.
I realy dont see this as a huge game changer. It is good that Obama was able to finish what Bush started. However there a lot of other very important things that Obama is realy sucking badly on. He keeps printing money which we all learned in high school is not a good thing. It makes the paper its printed on worthless. He let big companys like GE not pay taxes, gas prices are 4 bucks a gallon people are umemployed. Meanwhile parties at taxpayers expense contuines comedy shows and big dinners. So thank you Mr obama for finishing what Bush started, but I think the economy and gas prices will decide if you get reelected or not.
On September 11, 2001 people around the world were horrified by sudden deaths of 3,000 innocents through terrorist attack on US soil. Americans for certain and much of the world were united in agreement that those responsible should be brought to justice. The President of the United States rightly ordered military action as it quickly became apparent that the criminals were being sheltered by a friendly government, and would not turn over the guilty to suffer the punishment they earned. Nearly the entire world was united behind that action, and as always our brave soldiers, sailors, and airmen put their lives on the line without question.
Eight years ago the job was believed to be so substantially complete that attention was turned to a Neoconservative project to remake the entire world with the USA as “benevolent hegemon” as envisioned by The Project for the New American Century http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Project_for_the_New_American_Century , with funding from reliable Conservative power hitters including the Scaife family http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Scaife_Foundations and the Koch brothers. http://motherjones.com/environment/2011/02/koch-brothers-media-beck-greenpeace The Neocon cause was proven to be a dark fantasy at the cost of over 4,000 American lives and a trillion dollars added to the National Debt. Besides being an enormous cost the United States, the Neoconservative dream was an immense distraction from the bigger task of bringing down al Qaeda once and for all.
Two years ago a new President recognized that the real mission remained the decapitation of al Qaeda. He continued to pursue Osama bin Laden, and OBL was killed yesterday in Pakistan. The monsters head has been cut off, the billfold of al Qaeda taken in a victory for all who love freedom. That organization will try to continue for a time, but without a deep pocket supporter and charismatic leader the cause of violent Islam will wither to a level even less significant than its current status as a radical fringe group.
Thanks are due above all to those who serve in our nation’s military. Their skill, determination, and bravery have brought justice to the memory of all those who died on 9/11. Thanks also to the intelligence community, who proved the doubters wrong by coming through with the necessary information. Finally, thanks to all those within the Bush and Obama administrations who focused on this important task. May God be with all of us as we continue to heal.
John B:
Another outstanding post to start the week. I am again in awe of our Military and those many men and women who sacrifice every day to keep us safe. God's Speed in coming home.
agreed great post John B.
On the Daily Rundown this morning, Chuck and one of his guests agreed that the reason we need the physical body, is so that people in the middle east will not be able to dispute the death and conjure up conspiracy's. Ditto gor the Tea Party.
Seems that (according to some reports) the body was lost at sea. No sense in creating a "holy site" for bin laden.
Old:
“Ditherer –in-chief”
“Epic Fail”
New:
“Yes, we DID”
Trump:
“let’s see a death certificate, here”
ME First Bill:
"Good Greif- cup runneth over....yada....yada....yada...."
The "FRUMP" wants to see the death certificate ........This is a total game changer !
HAPPY 2ND TERM MR PRESIDENT AND THE BEST PART IS YOU DID IT WITH THE REPUBLICANS ...TRYING TO STOP EVERYTHING YOU DID !
As he continues to print the dollar into oblivion.
How you can carry the water for this fraud is beyond me....
Ask Obama's cousin Dick Cheney, perhaps
he knows?
xxx :o)
To all of those kids celebrating across from the white house the one real monster they had known about in their lives, the terrorist who brought about the worst nightmare of death on American soil they could have envisioned was gone.
The was a "Sauron is dead" moment for them and for us. President Obama went about this methodically and carefully as he does everything and when the moment was exactly right he took action.
This is leadership and decision making. This is getting things done. This is "yes we can."
The world slept more peacefully last night knowing that one its great monsters was gone.
McWatts;
Great post. I think while we in this country are slleping a little bit better after the news, there are those that would still do us harm that are not sleeping so well. Our President has demonstrated that he is going to go after all that harm this country. He will do it with stealth and caution. But his sting is deadly, there is nor antidote. Not one American life was lost in this raid, in and out in 40 minutes.
There can be no doubt tht we have the greatesr Military poeple on the planet.
US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired
McWatts;
There can be no doubt tht we have the greatesr Military poeple on the planet.
And you know it.
I recall at least twice (I think) in President Obama's message that this is not over. I appreciate that he carefully admonished all of us that while this is a monumental achievement by our service people, it is not over.
Like another poster, I am, on some level, sad that the violence needed to occur; I am grateful for our service people, intelligence people, and administrations.
Yesterday was a great day for our country. It was a great day for President Obama, the Commander in Chief of the greatest armed forces in the world.
Congratulations for a job well done.
But ironies of ironies, yesterday was the 8th anniversary of the first 'Mission Accomplished' debacle.
Now we can truly say MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. Thank you President Obama and continued success in YOUR mission to keep us safe.
Morning all, stayed up way late watching the great news. No matter how you slice it, a major symbol of terrorism has been taken down. And yes the man and woman who carried out the operation are courageous, and bring honor to themselves and their military organizations. They with the superb leadership of President Obama and his team have made this country proud.
Congratulations to the military, and to our administration for a job well done.
Of course as always, a key question is where we go from here. One aspect of that question that has to be answered pretty soon is what happens with the US relationship with the Pakistani government. As more and more information about the circumstances of bin Ladin's death emerge, it becomes clearer that elements within the Pakistani government clearly knew where bin Ladin was, or at least strongly suspected. The U.S. government clearly suspected some complicity because they didn't bother to ask permission or even inform the Pakistani government of the operation until after the fact. Now it's time to take the Pakistani's to task and find out kind of games they're playing. It's also time to give serious consideration about any foreign aid they are getting from us to assist us in the war on terror. If they're not truly going to be an equal partner, if they're going to continue to play both sides, then they certainly should not be getting US dollars while they are doing it.
Michael L, I share the same concern. It's been conventional wisdom for quite some time that elements within the Pakistani military are friendly to players within jihadist Islam, a very worrying state of affairs. This attack took place right within their area of greatest influence. I hope that strengthens the hand of those in Pakistan who realize there is no future in trying to take us 1300 years into the past.
Michael L, I would change only one thing in your post. "...because they didn't bother to ask permission or even inform the Pakistani government of the operation until after the fact." I suspect "didn't bother" should be "deliberately did not ask permission". It appears (because none of us know the actual conversations) that the administration considered all the evidence of compicity within the Pakistani government and military and deliberately chose to go this one alone. Of course the consequences had to be weighed carefully, but in the end, the only way to get to the desired result was to cut Pakistan out of the loop. Excellent information, excellent ops folks, and excellent analysis and action.
next up ayman al-zawahiri. it is your turn and the USA is coming for you.
I'm not a religious person but never in my life have I hoped that there really is a hell and it has a special room reserved for Bin Laden.
Great job by the Seal team and our President who lived up to his words and ordered a hit in a foreign country.
A game changer?
Ladies and Gentlemen - the game has changed!
President Obama promised this would happened - and it did.
With the best military in the world - all it took was a LEADER to command with purpose and resolve.
No one can demishish this accomplishment - NO ONE!!!
and those that try - are not AMERICANS.
Whooaaaa!!!!!
TRUTH- not CRAP
Thank you and GOD BLESS AMERICA
The - Democrat Soldier
With the best military in the world - all it took was a LEADER to command with purpose and resolve.
No one can demishish this accomplishment - NO ONE!!!
You can belive the TRump will bet on diminshming this accomplishment.
After all, Trump is the biggest carnival barker.
Carnival Barked defined.
a person who stands at a show, fair booth, etc., and loudly addresses passers-by to attract customers.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/barker
Trump would put White House up for sell.
http://www.therightperspective.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Trump_WH.jpg
You are Kidding? Obama is unqualified. I have a video
in 2004 of him saying the exact words.. I don't have the
experience..
Lefties eating Crow. I want photos. Follow Msnbc and even they are giving credit to Bush, his doctrine and his Gitmo policy. Obama is a follower. At least Obama learned and took advantage of all the ground work the Bush admin did.
Thank you #1 defense dept, #2 Pres Bush, #3 Pres Obama for following in Bush's tracks and following his policies.
Rewrite from my thoughts last week’s
Hiding in plain sight, America’s number one target was finally brought to justice. Yesterday’s raid was an outstanding job carried out by our intelligence services and special services – Navy Seals. Much credit is due to the brave troops who stormed the compound. Credit is due to the intelligence agents, CIA, NSA etc who provided the actionable intelligence to allow Obama to make the call. However, one can not forget that this was accomplished not through a massed army of men but through counter terrorism measures primarily the cultivation of intelligence and the use of spies.
All warfare is based on deception. There is no place where espionage can not be used.
Sun-Tzu –Art of War
A good victory for morale! Good job Mr. President, you fulfilled your promise to capture or kill Bin Laden. Now complete the victory by claiming “Mission Accomplished” and bringing our troops home as soon as possible. This more than anything can be used as a turning point to quickly and completely withdraw from Afganistan. There has been more than enough time, blood and tears shed there.
_________________________________________________
Yellowdog Mark-D
To shift from the petty, trivial political newscycle; I was saddened to learn that six coalition forces, five of them American where killed in Afganistan. Apparently it was done by a supposed Afgan ally with small arms fire. This comes after 450 plus Taliban fighters walk out of a maximum security jail this week. They used a tunnel that took collaborators five months to build. Prisoner guards are thought to have helped usher the prisoners to freedom.
Does anyone really think that we are winning in Afganistan and can someone explain why we are fighting there? I have never bought into the- we are fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them here BS. If as a nation the populace doesn't want us there and that country's leadership can not present a viable alternative to the Taliban, why is it our responsibility to support the afganistan government. Why do are troops have to die for this failed war? Time to pull out and let them sort it out! I shudder at the thought that we will have a presence there until 2015.
There is no winning in Afganistan. Our military commanders should know that there have been very few instances where a foreign army can put down an armed insurgency that has the support of its countrymen. I would suggest our learned military tacticians read Sun Tzu, Chinese general circa 500 BC and his masterpiece, "Art of War." Heck google it it least. Through the use of spies, insurgency techniques and assymetric warfare our modern military does not have a chance to route out the Taliban completely. This is not a knock on our troops, it is just a fact. Why can't we win? Amongst a myriad of reasons primarily I think it is because the enemy use the terrain to their advantage, they chose their battles, they attack our weak points. In essence they know our MO. We on the other hand do not know the enemy. Unfortunately, as this case points out we don't even know our supposed allies. I would have thought we could have learned some of these lessons in Vietnam.
Another major tenet of the Art of War is that warfare is a means to an end to gain territory, political power etc. It should only be instigated after thoughtful due consideration. It is not something to be started lightly or implemented half @ss. Careful consideration should be taken about not only short term implications but long term consequences. Its something to consider for those who cheer the Libya continuing operation. In Afganistan I have to shake my head, still there and losing men after the three week offensive drove the Taliban from power in 2001. There has been more than enough time, blood and tears shed there.
#11 - Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:59 AM EDT
Yellowdog:
I too am a follower of Sun-Tzu. A very appropriate quote.
WOW - what a fantastic surprise waking up to this news this morning! Like many of my fellow posters, I'm proud of President Obama, Director Panetta, and especially our Navy Seals!!! And as this was a nearly year-long SECRET operation, I'm thankful Bradley Manning and Julian Assange were no where near it - otherwise, we might have had a very different outcome.
Congratulations to President Obama for succeeding in killing Bin Laden!
Information received from enhanced interrogations at Gitmo led, years later, to the success of President Obama and America. KSM the mastermind and another detainee gave the valuable information, the name of a courier.
Somehow, our leftist friends aren't worried about the 'legalities'. After all, according to their often-stated belief, poor innocents were 'tortured' at Gitmo, due to loud noises and bugs in their cells and such.
Under US domestic criminal constitutional law, using such intelligence information obtained when the detainee isnt given access to a lawyer is illegal as the "fruit of the poisonous tree". And the US Constitution applies worldwide, of course, according to our leftist friends.
Justice was done to Bin Laden. We could no doubt have captured him alive if we wanted to. We killed him; the death penalty without a trial, without an ACLU lawyer...
Either post your source to back up that outrageous claim or, call it the bullsh!t we've become accustomed to out of you!
Eight Years Ago, Bush Declared 'Mission Accomplished' in Iraq
Ujala Sehgal Ujala Sehgal – Sun May 1, 5:18 pm ET
He flashed that famous all-American grin as he swaggered around the deck of the aircraft carrier in his olive flight suit, ejection harness between his legs, helmet tucked under his arm, awestruck crew crowding around. Maverick was back, cooler and hotter than ever, throttling to the max with joystick politics...This time Maverick didn't just nail a few bogeys and do a 4G inverted dive with a MiG-28 at a range of two meters. This time the Top Gun wasted a couple of nasty regimes, and promised this was just the beginning.
Eight years later, we still have the same war. But we are a very different country
http://news.yahoo.com/s/atlantic/20110501/ts_atlantic/missionaccomplishedspeech37226_1
"...Secondly, he is not escaping us. This is a guy, who, three months ago, was in control of a county [sic]. Now he's maybe in control of a cave. He's on the run. Listen, a while ago I said to the American people, our objective is more than bin Laden. But one of the things for certain is we're going to get him running and keep him running, and bring him to justice. And that's what's happening. He's on the run, if he's running at all. So we don't know whether he's in cave with the door shut, or a cave with the door open -- we just don't know...."
- Bush, in remarks in a Press Availablity with the Press Travel Pool,
The Prairie Chapel Ranch, Crawford TX, 12/28/01, as reported on
official White House site
"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02
"I am truly not that concerned about him."
- G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts,
3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)
Does it seem like Obama was a little more concerned?
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110501211144AAE7KsT
___________________________________________________________
Ever wonder how different our present would look like if our President Bush and Vice President Cheney had focused on the mission that circumstances and the pursuit of Justice demanded rather than the one that they made it into. Misuse of the Will of the People and the Forces that personify it deserves no accolades only sorrow for the losses incurred because of the misuse.
Most of your post is spot on. Legalities? Just a little too early to get into this. I haven't seen anything on the sources of the information. And, WATERBOARDING IS TORTURE! Bin Laden fired on our troops and resisted arrest. Legalities tend to hit the circular file when that happens!
Auntie, here is the source of the intel
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/02/world/asia/02reconstruct-capture-osama-bin-laden.html?hp
Go to the sixth paragraph.
Thentiming is a weird coincidence, huh?
My my my.
Bob-1887910
Congratulations to President Obama for succeeding in killing Bin Laden!
Information received from enhanced interrogations at Gitmo led, years later, to the success of President Obama and America. KSM the mastermind and another detainee gave the valuable information, the name of a courier.
Somehow, our leftist friends aren't worried about the 'legalities'.
Your Congratulations is no good scary cat.
Uh, OK, No Joe, but no mention of interrogation methods.
Weird coincidence? Only in the minds of the tinfoil hat crowd!
Bob 188 - Thank you for giving Obama credit for this victory- a non partisan American victory.
We can differ on our thoughts of what led to this victory. I point to the fact that news sources say a Pakastani spy or tipster on the ground was involved. I can assure you that his first hand account and info was much more influential in bringing this about then the garbled screams or forced confessions of a jihadi in Gitmo years ago.
I understand that the order was to kill and not capture Bin Laden, perhaps because of the costly and difficult circumstances that a trial would entail.
Fiesty--It's seems Bob can find a lead lining in every cloud. Vice President Joe Biden would be absolutely correct in saying "This is a big f#c@ing deal"
As to the "call it the bull@!$%# that it is", You may want to read some other news stories (even MNBC) as that information is in there. Just trying to help.
I love it when the truth comes out and lefties are forced once again into eating crow.
Just announced on MSNBC Cable. The initial lead came from Gitmo. The person, the lead suggested, was spotted by Bush's plant in Pakistan. The intelligence community then tracked and followed him to bring down Bin Laden. Thank you Pres Bush for the work you did in getting this evil person off this earth. Thank you Pres Obama for following Bush's lead. Thank You to the Defense Dept for pulling this special operation off.
I know now why Obama changed his approach to Gitmo. I know now why the News conference was not turned into a campaign event. Pres Obama knew most of the ground work and the Bush Doctrine was the correct way to proceed and most of the credit for the behind the scenes work would and should go to Pres Bush. Way to learn Pres Obama.
Gee a President that said he was going to make getting Bin Laden a TOP priority and did it, go figure! No landing on a carrier, or holding up wanted posters or cards with pictures on them, no going all over the news and telling everyone how bad ass he is, just told the Seals to go get him and they did their jobs and valiantly! Not bad for an "Un American, not born here, socialist" huh! All you trolls out there will certainly show your true stripes if you think this isn't anything but great news and don't congratulate this President and his Security team!
I see on the latest news, that the lead came from plants/spies placed in Pakistan way back, 5 years ago. Way to go Bush, Obama, and our defense forces.
I still believe to get this budget under control we will have to cut in defense just like every where else.
caradjt
I see on the latest news, that the lead came from plants/spies placed in Pakistan way back, 5 years ago. Way to go Bush, Obama, and our defense forces
It would have been better if Bush would have used the intel he got at Tora Bora.
See post #1.2 - Mon May 2, 2011 9:16 AM EDT
I am so glad Obama followed Bush's lead and inteligent sources to get the terrorist. I will give the Pres an A on his speach last night. Spread the credit around as was appropriate. To the point, short and sweet.
I wish Clinton would have settle the issue 15 years ago, when we had great info on where he was. Would of, could of on that and the Tora Bora incident. That whole incident was a learning situation as to who we could trust in that area of the world. I am glad we learned and the appropriate actions were taken to bring down Bin Laden.
Thanks to all those who contributed to this operation. Pres Bush, Pres Obama, and our defense dept.
Bush did not do Jack. He pulled most of the resources out of Afghan to chase that clown in Iraq. If they did in fact have the intel on this guy4 or 5 years ago explain why Bush did nothing with it, other than he was incompetent as hell. He had a chance to take Bin Laden out and he blew it. Our President stepped up the effort on Bin Laden. Many of the morons on this post were yapping about that at the time and now want to try and take the credit. You cannot have it both ways just because it suits you.
You guys on the right have so lost you way and have nothing to offer at all that you have become parasites trying to live of the coat tails of President Obama. Well we are wise to that old game and as you can see, we are no longer buying the right wing BS.
@Navy,
Billy Waugh had Usama in his sites years ago, but Clinton wouldn't pull the trigger; I hope Billy was involved this time too. Rightfully, I thank Obama for pulling the trigger on Usama. It happened on his watch after several years of searching for the guy.
Navy, in stead of being partisan today, why not reflect on the lives Usama took from families, the lives lost in our three wars, and be thankful that we veterans returned with most of our body parts intact?
Let the political garbage go for another day or two; the same old partisan issues will still be there.
Actually President Clinton DID warn of the danger from OBL. Republicans were more interested in Monica Lewinsky's dry cleaning.
JohnB,
Right..........Clinton did miss pulling the trigger John. He also did that with Carlos the Jackel.
Billy Bob was more interested in Monica's undergarments though.
That was a MOVIE, cracker, a screen writer's device, a fiction. Even the 9/11 Commission debunked that one. http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/57128/the_truth_about_clinton_and_bin_laden.html?cat=9
John,
The facts I am talking about are real......you are talking about a libbie move. Big difference, but you don't accept this as fact.
The 9/11 Commission didn't conclude that President Clinton let OBL go, either.
That's OK, I'm used to Conservatives having their own facts.
Part of me feels, very much, that this is entirely too little and far, far too late an event to change much of the paranoia, anxiety and divisiveness that has possessed the US since 9/11.
But Osama bin Laden's death at the hands of our own forces IS a major accomplishment and would remain so regardless of the party affiliation of the President or, indeed, the make-up of both Congressional chambers.
I am genuinely happy to see this happen. It is one of very few bright spots in this seemingly unending conflict; it is something all Americans have cause to celebrate over.
Ya, there's no going back. If this would have happened before Iraq invasion, the latter would probably never have happened. But.. have to move forward
Yes Doug,
Have to move forward. That means doing all we can to dump the Teleprompter Trooper in 2012.
He will win by an even larger margin then he did in 08.
To bad "Pat" The truth is out and most of the credit would and should go to Pres Bush. Even MSNBC has announced it as so.
Pres Bush doctrine on the war on terror, Gitmo, His plant in Pakistan are why we found Bin laden.
I do give credit to Pres Obama for his ability to learn and follow Bush's lead. His speach last night was Presidential.
Thank You Pres Bush, Pres Obama, and a special thanks to the defense dept.
Yes, it's a fact. President Bush is a true warrior. Obama is more of a wuse.
Edward: It must be exhausting for you to always be defensive of yourself and offensive against everyone else. Today of all days--can't you take a break? We all know where the credit is due--the U.S. Military and it's Commander in Chief, Barrack Obama, whether you like him or not. Give the partisanship a rest, eh? Just enjoy it.
@Edward-1075991
Yea right... Bush gave us a Mission Accomplished banner, Obama gave us Bin Laden. The facts speak for themselves.
The truth is out and most of the credit would and should go to Pres Bush. Even MSNBC has announced it as so. How is that crow tasting "greg"?
Well played, Greg.