Fesity:

At least now the democrats finally are going to play the same game. I just love a level playing field.

Sinking to their level is a good strategy? Say what?

Feisty: You are on a roll today.

The Koch Brothers have enough money to sponsor all the GOP/TP candidates so no matter who wins they will all be "beholden" to the wealthy Koch Brothers.

Nice to know we won't have one hand tied behind our back, this time around Navy! ;o)

So, it appears that the Koch boys have chosen their rook. Let the game begin.

Am I the only one here who knows that David Koch, who was once a libertarian, has gone on record as being in favor of gay marriage? How does Mitt Romney feel about that, I wonder?

Romney... come 2012, you'll hear the words "YOU ARE FIRED"

... not by Trump/Koch/baggers, but the American people. :)

So David and wife Julia are "snakes" for donating $2,300 to Romney in 2008.

What do you call Soros who donated $23.5 MILLION to all the various 527s in 2008?

$2,300? Wow .... that is small change.

Obama charges $38,500 a plate.

I wonder if Romney flies 2,600 in a jet that costs $188,000 an hour to pick-up his cash?

Politico's 2010 report that Romney had lined up fundraising commitments from David and Julia Koch

Try reading for a change Bobby!

It's understandable you're still p!ssy from the spanking Anna Molly laid down on you earlier! LMAO

What now?

You gonna dig around in the archives and come back with a week old comment in a pathetic attempt to declare 'victory'?

That's what I LOVE about you baggers & birthers - you REFUSE to admit when you're wrong and in doing so continue to provide a most excellent & much needed diversion... ;o)

Care for some *popcorn*?

bob:

So David and wife Julia are "snakes" for donating $2,300 to Romney in 2008.

What do you call Soros who donated $23.5 MILLION to all the various 527s in 2008?

$2,300? Wow .... that is small change.

And there you go again, bobby, lie, lie, lie, and when you can't lie, distort.

As you can clearly see FROM THE FACTS set forth in this article, the vast majority of Soros' donations to 527's occurred in connection with the 2004 election, and NOT 2008.

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2010/09/opensecrets-battle---koch-brothers.html

As mentioned previously, Soros spent $24 million in under two years and did so in his determination to defeat George W. Bush in 2004. He told the Washington Post in November 2003, "America under Bush, is a danger to the world. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is."

And I think you'd better read the rest of the article to get a better understanding of the "small change" you claim the Koch brothers are spending.

VERDICT: When it comes to the combination of institutional lobbying, 527 group donations and PAC expenditures, Koch Industries far out-spends Soros' hedge fund and think tank, $57.4 million to $12.8 million. Most of this money is attributable to lobbying expenditures.

Lies, lies, everywhere there's lies ....

Feisty

I have agree with Ron you are on a roll today. The Kochotopus has poisonous tentacles. Plus their dad was a member of the John Birch Society. hint hint...birthers

Good job, keep it up GF; informed readers need to know as well as informed need to know what you right

The Tea Party is all about “class warfare” and “redistribution of wealth” which is really them doing it. It is un acceptable they should be exposed daily; many people still don't know who these monsters are.

Good on the Democrats for no longer wanting to maintain that inverse relationship that allows the wealthy or corporations to profit off the backs of the middle class and poor.

Disenfranchised voters, wage theft, receiving less or no education, cutting VA benefits, having more funds to build prisons than paying school teachers, eliminating collective bargaining, and destroying Medicare , Medicaid & SS is now taboo.

As Lynn Sweet reported on the Sun Times the Dems are going after

While we agree that fundamental campaign finance reforms are needed, Karl Rove and the Koch brothers cannot live by one set of rules as our values and our candidates are overrun with their hundreds of millions of dollars. We will follow the rules as the Supreme Court has laid them out, but the days of the double standard are over," said Burton in a statement.

"We're eager to meet Karl Rove and the Koch Brothers in the public arena. As long as they're spending millions telling lies in their effort to destroy the middle class, we will answer them by telling the truth," said Begala in a statement.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2011/04/democrats_copy_gop_new_2012_mo.html

That's it get 'em get the kochotpus poiusous tentacles.

A little more from the same article about those Koch boys and their INDIVIDUAL 527 donations:

Since December 2008, Soros has only donated $4,000 to these types of groups. On June 30th of this year [[2010]], David Koch made a $1 million donation to the Republican Governors Association, his largest one-time donation to date.

This the same Koch who supports STEM CELL RESEARCH?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_H._Koch

"David Koch supports gay marriage and stem-cell research"

"Since 2000, Koch has pledged and/or donated more than $600 million to the arts, education and medical research, more than he gave to political causes. Koch maintains that only a relatively small portion of his giving goes toward political causes. Instead, most of his charity goes toward cancer research, followed by cultural and educational programs."

www.politicsdaily.com/2010/09/02/koch-brothers-give-more-to-charity-than-to-right-wing-causes/

To be sure, the Kochs have given "more than a hundred million dollars to right wing causes" (which is their right, by the way). But in the last decade, it's also worth noting the Kochs have given more than $600 million in pledged or donated money to arts, education, and medical research, including (but not limited to):

New York-Presbyterian Hospital Weill Cornell: $15 million

M.D. Anderson Cancer Center: $25 million

The Hospital for Special Surgery: $26 million

Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center: $30 million

Prostate Cancer Foundation: $41 million

Deerfield Academy: $68 million

Lincoln Center's NY State Theater: $100 million

Massachusetts Institute of Technology: $139 million

Oh course these guys love tell their employees how to vote.

Anna,

A lie is an intentional misrepresentation of a known fact with the effort to deceive.

What do you call Soros who donated $23.5 MILLION to all the various 527s in 2008?

The above was mistake. The 23.5 was donated in 2004 to defeat Bush. I used this number a few days ago in a post to Feisty and remarked that it was funny that there was no mention of his donations in 2008. Regardless, sorry for the mistake.

A few things about your comment. You include lobbying in your numbers, I didn't. Different deal completely.

Your source also states ...

provided major funding to groups that aren't particularly transparent, such as Soros-backedDemocracy Alliance, which doesn't provide information on the projects it funds

Probably answers the question about 2008, huh?

Bottom line - Both sides have their rich backers. Dems just like to portray the Repubs as the party of the rich.

Yet the fact remains, one of the biggest /richest, if not the biggest/richest hedge fund guys supported Obama and the Dems; the biggest company in the world, GE supported Obama and the Dems; the biggest Wall Street firm, Goldman Sachs, supported Obama and the Dems; the biggest bank in America, JP Morgan Chase supported Obama and the Dems; the biggest holding company, Berkshire Hathaway / Warren Buffet richest man in the world in 2008 supported Obama and the Dems; the richest American other than 2008, Bill Gates supported Obama and the Dems; ......eight out of the top 10 richest zip codes in America supported Obama and the Dems........ and again, you guys demagogue the right as in being in bed with the rich? You believe it is the little munchkins like Feisty knocking on doors for $5 -$10 ....... too funny.

Regardless, sorry for the mistake.

That didn't HURT too much, did it booby? lol

Oh and BTW Anna,

You don't have to resort to the liar, liar stuff.

Thanks for your links, if your link disputes my source - fine. I have no intention of stating something not true, there is no need to, Obama is too inept on too many levels to mess with things that are not true.

Alan, NJ

This the same Koch who supports STEM CELL RESEARCH?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_H._Koch

"David Koch supports gay marriage and stem-cell research"

Um, excuse me, Alan, NJ

Before being so apt to expose the Koch's generosity you need to go the extra distance.


Billionaire Tea Party Financier David Koch Gets Booed At The Ballet

http://freakoutnation.com/2011/01/04/billionaire-tea-partier-david-koch-gets-booed-at-the-ballet/

[snip]

the New Yorker magazine last August, Mr Koch stood in 1979 as a Libertarian Party vice-presidential candidate:

The Libertarian Party platform called for the abolition of the F.B.I. and the C.I.A., as well as of federal regulatory agencies, such as the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Department of Energy. The Party wanted to end Social Security, minimum-wage laws, gun control, and all personal and corporate income taxes; it proposed the legalization of prostitution, recreational drugs, and suicide. Government should be reduced to only one function: the protection of individual rights. William F. Buckley, Jr., a more traditional conservative, called the movement "Anarcho-Totalitarianism."

The Koch Brothers of Koch Industries are one of the air polluters in America and they have strongly opposed the EPA as well as Health Care Reform

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

How can be one be for and against clean air simultaneously as the Koch Brothers are? This verges on a LIE.

h/t one koch brother is dying of Cancer maybe he did donate to stem cell research; dunno. However you need to know the Kochs pay people to re-write wiki as well as re-direct links to right wing propaganda.

Koch Industries Tells Its 50,000 Workers How to Vote

They can even intimidate their employees into voting for their candidates." Secunda adds, "It's a very troubling situation."

The Kochs were major supporters of the Citizens United case; they were also chief sponsors of the Tea Party and major backers of the anti-"Obamacare" campaign. Through their network of libertarian think tanks and policy institutes, they have been major drivers of unionbusting

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/04/koch-industries-tells-its-50000-workers-how-to-vote.html

Alan, NJ

The same Kochs who support STEM CELL RESEARCH and gay marriage also pays people to edit Wikipedia to thrust force their propaganda.

Propaganda?

I removed the propaganda template; this may have been an attempt to say that a section read like propaganda (although I'm not seeing it). However, the template was actually the box used for linking to various types of propaganda - doesn't really fit. CredoFromStart ^talk 15:38, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Requested edit

I'd like to make a simple request for a change in the introductory paragraph of this article. Primarily, that would be removing the phrase "securities and finance" from the list of Koch business areas. The Koch website[1] lists all of the others mentioned here -- but not securities. The Koch website does mention "trading" though this relates to commodities, and in fact this is already mentioned in the paragraph. I would make the edit myself, but Koch is a client of my employer, so I'd like someone else's input. Thanks, NMS Bill (talk) 19:11, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

I changed the phrase to just "finance". Per their website "Koch Supply & Trading companies around the world trade and provide risk management services in crude oil; refined petroleum products; natural gas and gas liquids; gas, power and emissions; industrial metals; energy; and other commodities and financial instruments." Emphasis mine. Bonewah (talk) 19:21, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AKoch_Industries#Propaganda.3F

there is no need to, Obama is too inept on too many levels to mess with things that are not true.

There you have it folks! NO matter what the subject it's ALWAYS Obama's FAULT! WHAAAAA!

Don't you just love ConservativeVille? Land of the THOUGHTLESS and home of the AFRAID!

@Bev

Doesn't take much to get you going. What I found so amusing was that the previous posting chain was all about support for the Stem Cell ruling and this one was basically the Koch brothers are the devil incarnate. As always its not black and white as you would like to make out. There is nothing in your two posts that refute what I posted. I simply took two positions of David Koch, which are mainstream libertarian, and posted them to show how positions can overlap because I am sure that you are for Gay marriage rights and federal funding of stem cell research.

As to a company "telling" their employees how to vote so what? There is no way to enforce it. Don't unions produce voter guides for their members? Does that mean they follow like sheep? If it did them democrats would never lose an election. As I pointed out below all the money in the world couldn't Meg Whitman elected. So get over it. Nobody in the real world cares about the Koch brothers or the great left/right wing conspiracy.

Alan, NJ

@Bev

What I found so amusing was that the previous posting chain was all about support for the Stem Cell ruling and this one was basically the Koch brothers are the devil incarnate

I'll drink to that. I believe nothing about the Kochs when it comes to human beings and the planet. If he did donate; bless him he has cancer.

My point is the Kochs pay people to lie for them and spread their propoganda as evidenced by them doing it wikipedia

You are so wrong when you say no one cares about the Kochs money. The groundswell which stated in Wisconsin and is spreading to other states says so.

When you think about Americans losing their livelihood due to the Kochs greed you'll see more corrected citizens

Tonight live and the Palladium it’s Romney and the Koch Brothers. A show guaranteed to delight one and all. Tickets are on sale now at the Palladium Box office. All seats will be assigned. It is a must see show, one that is truly hilarious with down home humor. Be sure to stay for the mini concert featuring Stray and the Cats performing their famous song that dog can't hunt.

It would figure that a guy like Romney would be a Koch Brothers kiss-ass. Who the hell else would contribute to a boring, unintelligent maroon like him. He puts me sleep. But he is just one of the many Republicans who are on that list. They have tons of money and buy politicians in order to get what they want done in Washington. Since one of the brothers couldn't win a nomination years ago, they decided that they would start to buy the politicians instead. And the Democrats have been having a hard time competing with their kind of money. It's pretty sad when they can't play fair or win fair, but money is the root of all evil -- just ask the Republicans.

bobby:

Thanks for your links, if your link disputes my source - fine. I have no intention of stating something not true, there is no need to, Obama is too inept on too many levels to mess with things that are not true.

Two things. First you don't give your source.

Second, you might be more convincing if you hadn't done the same thing on the last thread, too, only that was a blatant and total lie. No "mistake" about it. No way, no how. And it was done for a purpose, which was, as always, to smear unions.

And likewise, your intention in using 2008 for the Soros numbers couldn't have been more plain. You were trying to imply that Soros got Obama elected. Otherwise, what was the point? I doubt you were trying to say that Soros spent $24 million to defeat George Bush and lost to even larger money spent by Republicans.

As for my resorting to the liar stuff, you have two choices, bobby. Either stop lying or get some better sources.

Great work exposing the Kochtopus for what it is...a primary driver in the war against the middle class.

One minor point, Fred Koch wasn't just a member of the John Birch Society, he was a cofounder.

History will not look well on this time when the Republican Party mainstreamed crazy.

No, indeed. And thank you for the information. This is the first time I heard that Koch was a co-founder of the Birch Society. Good grief. I hope it will be a better angle for exposing the boys than just the money.

NO, 6 Republicans and 3 democrats and soon to be one governor

3 wolves...

The answer is no. Time ran out on conservatives who wanted to recall 3 democrats. The Democrats did get enough signatures to recall the Republican senators. Anna Molly can give more current and accurate information.

Navy is right.

There are six republicans up for recall and three democrats. Two more republican recall petitions are still out, but I'm not hopeful on those. I believe the republicans had to abandon three or four more recall petitions against democrats for lack of interest. We'll see how it goes, but if I had to bet, I'd say that the recalls are much more likely to be successful against the republicans than the democrats, just given the districts that are involved. If they all were successful, including the democrat recalls, the state senate would still flip from republican to democrat. Given where we are, I actually am hopeful that there will be a flip. In that case, I think a recall of the governor is a possibility, as well.

But a lot of republican money is about to flow under the bridge. I hear tell it's going to make the spending in the Supreme Court elections look puny by comparison.

Thanks Anna,

I also believe that while the petitions to recall the Republican Senators obtained about 60% more signatures than needed while the recall petitions for Democrats barely exceeded the minimum number required.

AM, A recall doesn't change the law. It will take more than recalls to get the law reversed. If all of the recalls are successful, there will still not be the majorities to reverse from what I can tell. I am sure you will let me know if I am wrong on that. And, if an attempt is made, the flea baggers showed how to avoid it. Just run and hide in Illinois and spend money there to help pay for their 54 billion in unfunded pension liabilities. 54 BILLION!!! Ouch. I am sure Bev and Feisty are so proud.

Rocco,

As you should know, it isn’t about the immediate removal of the law it is more about sending a message, derailing further anti-middle class laws and trying to defund or side tract the current law which is still on a court hold.

AM, A recall doesn't change the law. It will take more than recalls to get the law reversed.

Rocco ... the collective bargaining law is still not in effect. Court challenges have held it up. If it doesn't go into effect before the recall elections, I can pretty much guarantee you it never will. And if it does, then it probably won't last too long. The possibilities for additional recalls are endless.

Besides, Walker's agenda is a LOT bigger than just the collective bargaining law, which you might know if you were really paying attention. He has a plan to gut education spending and Medicaid, environmental protections, police and fire protection spending, and a whole lot more, including a pretty substantial rumor that Walker has a large law firm working on exactly the same kind of thing that Michigan is doing to take away local control from cities and towns.

So, quite a few things depend on this. And by the way, we did cover how a bill becomes a law in my law school.

As for unfunded pension liabilities, Wisconsin has among THE most solvent public employee retirement plans in the country. Illinois's pension liabilities are Illinois's problems. Don't try to make them ours.

But Wisconsin is the home of the JBS.

Wow. In a sign that Wisconsin Democrats can still claim momentum in the recall wars, Dems today filed the signatures to trigger a recall election against a sixth Wisconsin GOP state senator — and this time, they filed an astonishing 166 percent of the number required, the highest yet.

Graeme Zielinski, a spokesman for the Wisconsin Democratic Party, confirms that Dems today filed 26,524 signatures supporting a recall election against GOP senator Robert Cowles, out of 15,960 required. This is the strongest signature showing by Dems yet: Against five previous GOP targets, Dems amassed signatures in the area of 140 or 150 percent.

This, despite the fact that Cowles’s district is a Republican-leaning one. George W. Bush defeated John Kerry there by 15 points, 57-42. Obama did beat John McCain there, but only narrowly, 52-46, and Cowles didn’t even have a Democratic challenger last time around.

There are other signs that Dems have the momentum here; For one thing, GOP organizers fell short in signatures against four Dem targets. While there will all but certainly be recall elections against six Republicans, currently officials are examining signatures for the recall of only three Democrats.

Doesn't a recall election mean that they have to have another election. What if the people that elected them vote them back in office? What will be your excuse then?

AM, I am not from Wisconsin but do love the Kringles. :) It just seems that most of the Libbie's here think that if a recall is successful that the majorities are there to overturn it. I understand that the law is not officially in effect yet. However, if it goes into effect and the recalls are successful, are their enough majorities in the House and Senate to overturn the law? Can you recall both House reps and Senate members in Wisconsin or just Senate? If it is just in the Senate, won't there still be a problem in the House? My state does not allow recalls so I really don't know how it works in Wisconsin and you seem to be the right person to ask.

You only NOW realized that? :p

The Koch bros. didn't give HER squat, did they?

She made her money the old fashion way Buzz - she conned the stuck on stupid crowd!

Roll on Feisty! You are on cue today. The snake analogy is a bull's eye with Romney. He will have to roll in a pit of snakes to get the nomination. The evagelicals HATE mormons and will never vote for 'pretenders' to their cause. We all know Romney does not stand for anything but makin' cash. Never has. His religion is not the right flavor for most of the GOPTP crowd and we know how they are averse to CHANGE. Not to mention HOPE! Time to flip that the poor ROMNEY flop on outta there.

Geez Missy, throw religion into this will ya. It's taboo to speak of another persons religion or the church he belong to for over 20 years, you know what I'm saying. How do you know what religion is for whom? Can't be LDS, but you can belong to a radical church. Yup that makes perfect sense.

3Wanks-and-a-Half: Would you please log out, and log back in again as Spankie? You are much more fun to kick around under that moniker.

Thank you.

Hit a nerve Drive-by or can't spell my name which is it? You want to answer that simple question or are you afraid too?

..."too"?

I think that's more indicative of a problem with the electorate rather than the elite. The grim reality that any man or woman running for higher political office in America needs to buy into ideologies both weird and counter-intuitive demonstrates to me, at least, that we as a people are entirely too stupid and pig-headed for our own good.

All too true ED. We, as an electorate should be able to think and decide on our own rather than let the $$ talk. We are just too lazy and thoughtless anymore. We let the loud people from either side set a crazy agenda.

Gee, Ira, I do not know how many step a backward a person can. Take, but this country had better get a running start running away from Obama policies

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/570566/201104281910/And-They-Call-It-A-Recovery-.htm

At his rate, we will be a third world country by the time he is done.

It's the would-be demagogues that are most likely to vote.

Taxes were so low after Bush 43 that there was little room for more tax cuts much less massive.

It must also be recognized that during Reagan the Manufacturing and Export industries were 3 time what they are now, as a percent of GDP making recovery much easier.

So, Dennis, that excuses spending almost a trillion dollars on a stimulus plan that stimulated nothing but the deficit? It excuses weakening the dollar to the point that gas prices are quite a bit higher than they would be if the dollar were stronger? It excuses closing the door to real jobs, while shoveling money at jobs in phony industries- which, by the way, employ far fewer people, at lower wages? I am speaking, of course,mod the oil industry, versus the rainbow factories.

It's Bush's fault, it's Reagan's fault, the sun got in my eyes, it isn't fair-

Tell me, Dennis, why in the world did Obama even want the job?

And why in the world did you give it to him?

By his own admission, he is not up to it.

Honest, I was done for the day and headng home. Not a fact, not a clue, not even close to factually correct. Oil would be chaeaper if the dollar was stronger? Real jobs...what's a rea; job? Obama saved millions of jobs during the stimulus but you haven't read about that yet. Bush left the country with a massive deficit and an unfunded Medicare drug bill. He didn't even budget the Iraqi war. Regan reduced the marginal tax rate starting the greatest movement of weath from the middle class to the rich. I know you need to stick to the Obama sux thread but at least post a fact and not an hysterical rant based in fantasy.

You know where the jobs aren't?

Political newsblogs.

Try contacting your local staffing agencies~

Its pretty simple, Ira: a strong dollar buys more goods, a weak dollar buys fewer goods.

It is one of the costs of inflation.

Inflation, by the way, that was fueled by the stimulus, ( too many dollars chasing too few goods), and was fed by QE2.

It's the basic plan for stagflation.

no joe, no bo, nj...

See there you go, wrong again. The price of oil is set on the spot market and speculators are driving the price up. Demand is not driving the price up. Not the value of the dollar. Not inflation.

Inflation is at near zero right now...that's why there were no COLA increases for Social Security recipients. Near ZERO.

Do you even know what stagflation is? PLEASE tell me how it relates to anything this post is about.

Again, throwing out words with no basis in fact or relevance.

Doesn't the Koch Brothers=Soros on the Left? Seems like a Spy verses Spy. Two wrongs make a right there Democrat?

Doesn't the Koch Brothers=Soros on the Left?

Not at all. Look at the numbers, Wolf Man. Look at the numbers.

And Soros is not descended from the John Birch Society. Or is that something you happen to like?

Number for what Anna? Both gives millions and you're cool with that? Is that something you like? Both are wrong, but you think one is right because you believe it is? Non-sense, both are wrong.

Don't tell ME about it, Wolfman. I've always been for public campaign finance and against lobbyists.

Don't worry, my credentials on this are solid. How about yours?

I'm just laughing because republicans always whine when democrats find a way to play their little games.

And isn't it curious that Soros is the only billionaire republicans can ever name on the democrat side. On theirs we have the Walton family, Bill Gates, and the Koch Brothers, just to name a few. Even with Soros, it still is nowhere near a level playing field.

Doesn't Bill Gates support Obama? Your credentials? What does that have to do with that both sides are wrong?

Bill Gates supports Republicans? That's a new one

What does that have to do with that both sides are wrong?

Don't be dense. That's MY job. It means that I've always said both sides are wrong. AND that there should be public campaign financing, AND that there should be no lobbying allowed AND certainly there should be no soft campaign money. Corporations are NOT people and money is NOT speech.

I just find republicans' complaining about democrats playing the same games they've always played to be funny, not to mention hypocritical.

And whether Bill Gates supports Obama or not means nothing to me. I am not an Obamabot and I am not a fan of Bill Gates in any way. I've seen and read way too much about him to be a fan.

But I don't think he gives money to Obama unless he gives it to both sides.

That would be MUCH more like Bill Gates.

Well, if it makes you feel better, I like Apple!! :-)

Indeed. My monster Mac and I approve. ;-)

Since AM supports public financing of campaigns, it stands to reason she did not vote for Obama, since he eschewed such finding in favor of raking in big bucks from individual donors- 75% of whom were BIG donors.

It also stands to reason that she will publish a multiple- paragraph diatribe addressing this

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20055498-503544.html

I wait with bated breath.

I wait with bated breath.

Do tell darling - did you have tuna or mackerel for lunch?

Inquiring minds would like to know!

no joe:

It also stands to reason that she will publish a multiple- paragraph diatribe addressing this

No it doesn't.

Feisty:

Do tell darling - did you have tuna or mackerel for lunch?

@ Feisty ~ I'll have whatever you're having. You are indeed on a roll. Sushi, perhaps?

Kirby...

I'm an Obama guy and in this case you make a vailid point. Soros is rich and has his own agenda as does the Koch brothers and the dem"s are as guilty as the GOPers'. It's all about the money on both sides of the aisle.

You and I can agree on that point. Jess Unruh from California said it best: "Money is the Mothers milk of politics."

Don't be silly, kirby. Soros is small potatoes next to those boys. The Kochs' fortune combined is the fourth largest fortune in the world -- compared to Soros in the 40s someplace, and don't forget that Daddy Koch was a founding member of the John Birch Society, which I don't think George Soros can claim. Their agenda is totally different, and it isn't particularly benign. I don't think Soros holds meetings with his employees and tells them they make too much money, or sends them little packages trying to tell them how to vote, as I'm told the Koch brothers do. Just to name a few differences between them.

It's not the same thing AT ALL, and people who lie to themselves and others that it is are the ones who lack credibility. But, if you want to associate yourself with the inheritors of the John Birch legacy, you go right ahead.

Anna Molly..

You need to make a distinction here about poitics and money. Both are trying to do the same thing for their respective parties. Again, it doesn't matter who is richer, the goal is the same and it IS all about politics.

Anna -

I didn't say I agreed with anything the Koch brothers do, did I? I merely pointed out that Soros has long been giving large sums of money to the people he agrees with or wants to influence, just like the Koch's. The fact that he doesn't have quite as many billions doesn't change that.

Having said that, I love you Anna Molly.

Well, who could possibly argue with that, kirby? LoL And ditto. After all, I am a peacy-lovey liberal.

But if you want to see a little more about how that spending thing breaks out, see my article cited above.

The Kochs outspend Soros by a bunch. Most of his large spending was to get rid of George W. Bush, and he didn't even manage to do that. Since that time, his giving really has been small potatoes next to the Kochs.

And, Ira, I do happen to think that, in order to gauge them correctly, you have to consider the nature of the causes that each of the two influences support. All money is not equally spent.

I hadn't seen the amounts before, but it comes as no surprise that Soros gives less than the Koch brothers. My point is that money plays the dominant role in politics. I am actually in favor of publically funded elections, but that ain't gonna happen. And it really doesn't fit with my libertarian leanings anyway.

As far as the Birchers go, I thought they were loony back in the early 60's and I was just a kid. But what they and others spend for is not the point. You can agree or disagree with their viewpoints and say the money is not equally spent, but that doesn't change the fact that $$ rules both parties.

And I am a peacy-lovey libertarian.

My point is that money plays the dominant role in politics

So why isn't Meg Whitman governor of California

So why isn't Meg Whitman governor of California

Ummmm... I don't know...

You think maybe the voters in CA saw through her bullsh!t?

Just sayin...

And I am a peacy-lovey libertarian.

Why am I not surprised?

So why isn't Meg Whitman governor of California

Beats me. My best guess is that it's hard to claim you're a competent CEO when you're negligent about employing illegal aliens.

AM -

A bit of a gratuitous cheap shot? Alas, I feel so let down.

Anna

I suggest that you do some research on the Meg Maid. She was hired through an Employment Agency not directly by Whitman.

soldon,

That is TOTAL donations for 20 years.

How about 2010 only?

Then each brother is listed separately so get the full impact of their power add the amounts together. Only then can you see the real true picture.

Dennis

Just click on a name for the history. You will find who and how much. Also find trends since 1990 to 2010. Here is an example of what you will see.

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000000070

slodon,

Yes I did click on it and looked at the tabs but the Koch numbers are only Koch Industries @ 87th in fact the whole list is institutions and does not include individuals.

Just click on Koch Industries to see the history.

Then you will see 'top contributors' with each brother listed. Then click on 'View more....'