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Subscribe to RSSBarbour’s no-go again highlights who’s in and who’s out… A pragmatic move for a pragmatic pol?... Mitch Daniels is now on the clock… Why it’s important not to overstate how Barbour’s decision could impact the GOP field: Winthrop poll had him at just 2% in South Carolina… Romney’s “peacetime” blunder… Ron Paul to announce exploratory committee in Des Moines, IA at 4:45 pm ET… Watching the congressional town halls… Obama conducts another round of TV affiliate interviews... And Santorum makes three stops in Iowa.
From Mark Murray, Domenico Montanaro, and Ali Weinberg
*** In and out: When we wrote yesterday that the 2012 presidential field would come into sharper focus this week, we didn’t know it would mean that yet another potential GOP candidate would decline to get into the race. Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour (R) said in a statement yesterday: "A candidate for president today is embracing a 10-year commitment to an all-consuming effort, to the virtual exclusion of all else. His (or her) supporters expect and deserve no less than absolute fire in the belly from their candidate. I cannot offer that with certainty, and total certainty is required.” So far, the prominent Republicans who have said no -- Pence, Thune, Christie, Jeb Bush, and now Barbour -- outnumber the top-tier Republicans who have said yes (and have been running for a while) -- Romney and Pawlenty. Of course, Gingrich and Santorum are testing the waters, and appear likely to get in…
*** A pragmatic move for a pragmatic pol? You don’t become a successful RNC and RGA chairman without being a pragmatic politician, and Barbour’s decision was certainly pragmatic. Our April NBC/WSJ poll telegraphed his ultimate decision not to run for president: Only 1% of national GOP primary voters (2 out of 238) said Barbour was their top choice for president in a potential field of nine Republican candidates. In a smaller five-candidate field, Barbour's support ticked up to just 3% (7 out of 238). In that same poll, being a former lobbyist -- as Barbour was before becoming governor -- was viewed as the worst candidate attribute, worse than having multiple marriages, being a FOX News commentator, or being a leader of the Tea Party movement. In other words, he would have been the most “Washington” of the GOP presidential candidates. Any presidential run presents a difficult path. But Barbour’s path was going to be VERY difficult.
*** Mitch Daniels is now on the clock: With Barbour’s decision not to run, the Beltway speculation now turns to Indiana Gov. -- and Barbour friend -- Mitch Daniels. This actually gives Daniels more time to wait past Memorial Day. On “Meet the Press” back in March, he didn’t flinch when asked if he could wait until the summer to make up his mind. Why Daniels might run: He believes that no other candidate is addressing the deficit/debt, and he now has an opening (in fundraising and establishment support) with Barbour’s no-go. Why he might not run: His national name ID/support isn’t any higher than Barbour’s, and his family is rumored to be against a White House bid. As the Washington Post's Balz wrote yesterday, "Asked about family considerations — friends say his wife has been opposed — Daniels goes quiet. 'I don’t have much more to say about that,’ he said. ‘It’s just a very important factor.'” We might get clues from Daniels when he addresses the American Enterprise Institute on May 4.
*** Is it really a shakeup? Yet it’s probably important not to overstate how Barbour’s decision could end up impacting the eventual GOP field -- beyond fundraising and Beltway buzz. In addition to our national NBC/WSJ survey, a new Winthrop Poll shows Barbour getting the support of just 2% of likely South Carolina GOP voters. The poll finds Mike Huckabee in the lead getting 19% among likely GOP primary voters, followed by Mitt Romney at 17%, Donald Trump at 11%, Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin at 8%, and Christie at 6%. (Of course, there’s the real possibility that Huck, Trump, Palin, and Christie don’t even get in the race.)
*** Give peace(time) a chance: Meanwhile, Romney should be glad that Barbour made news yesterday, because his blunder -- mistakenly saying that Obama has been engaged in “one of the biggest PEACETIME spending binges in American history” -- was an unforced error for the one-term former governor. A Romney spokeswoman later told First Read, “He meant to say since World War II.” (Yet how does one misspeak in an unfiltered op-ed?) The good news here for Romney is that the slow start to the GOP race minimized any damage (what if this had occurred at a debate or when all the camps' war rooms are fully operational?). The potential bad news: The slow start only will magnify future gaffes and blunders when the GOP campaign is fully underway.
*** Paul makes his move: Although Barbour is out of the GOP presidential race, another Republican -- Ron Paul -- appears to be in. In Des Moines, IA at 4:45 pm ET, the Texas congressman will announce he’ll be forming a presidential exploratory committee. "We're gonna announce that I'm going to start an exploratory committee,” Paul said on FOX yesterday, per NBC’s Lauren Selsky. “And I'll stop by in Iowa on my way home, and that might lead to the next decision.” Despite his enthusiastic supporters and the millions he raised during his '08 presidential bid, Paul finished fifth in both the Iowa caucuses and New Hampshire primary. And if he officially gets in, this would be Paul’s third presidential bid; he ran in 1988 as a Libertarian candidate.
*** Town Hall turnaround? We noted yesterday that -- in a reversal from ’09 and ‘10 when it was Democrats facing voters upset over health care -- the heat is now on some Republicans at town halls because of Paul Ryan’s budget proposal to phase out Medicare. There are at least two dozen town halls through the end of this week that liberal groups are tracking, including separate ones today with Ryan and Florida Congressman Allen West. In particular, West -- a freshman who came into office full of controversy -- represents a swing district with lots of seniors in it; 20% of the population in FL-22 is older than 65.
*** Another round of affiliate interviews: President Obama today holds another round of interviews with TV affiliates from states that the Obama re-election campaign is eyeing -- WSB Atlanta (GA), WKYC Cleveland (OH), WTKR Hampton Roads (VA), and WXYZ Detroit (MI).
*** On the 2012 trail: Ron Paul isn’t the only GOPer in Iowa today. Rick Santorum hits Dubuque, Dyersville, and Cedar Rapids.
Countdown to NY-26 special election: 28 days
Countdown to Iowa GOP straw poll: 108 days
Countdown to Election Day 2011: 196 days
Countdown to the Iowa caucuses: 286 days
* Note: When the IA caucuses take place depends on whether other states move up
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The deceit and lies of those on the right just keep on coming. The truth is:
1. Medicare is being repealed and replaced by a “Voucher Program” that will “Privatize” Medicare and put it at the total control of the Insurance Companies. The beneficiaries will have to make up all shortfalls in the costs and people on fixed income just will not be able to afford it. This will result in no Health Care for Millions of Seniors when they need it the most.
2. Medicaid is being repealed and replaced by a “Block Grant” program that will not work. The cost here are shifted to the States that already are strapped for money and will have the same result as Medicare – It will throw millions and millions of people mostly the poor, sick and disabled out into the street to fend for themselves.
3. The Ryan Bill will increase the deficit over the next 10 years by about 5.5 Trillion dollars. This is “Fiscal Responsibility”? Right and pigs fly. The increase in the deficit WILL REQUIRE that the debt ceiling be increased. The GOP/TP is currently talking about freezing the Debt Ceiling. If so then how are they going to implement the Ryan Bill? They cannot unless they increase the Debt Ceiling.
4. The Ryan Bill does include huge tax cuts to the richest 2%. He wants to lower their effective rate from 35% to 25%, keep capital gains at 15% and a free ride (0.00% tax on Estates). Closing all the tax loopholes in the world probably will not offset these huge cuts. In fact the Ryan Bill has very little detail on what tax loopholes he is even talking about. For all we know he may be going after EIC and others that benefit the middle class. Smoke and mirrors people.
5. The savings derived from shifting the costs of Medicare and Medicaid to the beneficiaries and the States respectively will be used to offset the costs of the tax cuts to the rich. We call this robbing Peter to pay Paul. It is a fact that many millions of Americans are going to loose their Health Care and the so called spending cuts that do not address the problem of costs at all, will be used to fund the tax cuts.
6. The Ryan Bill will cost about 700,000 jobs by some estimates. This will lower revenues at a time our revenues are at an almost record low and it will increase claims for UI, Food Stamps, and Medicaid. There will be less money in the economy that will affect small business since they will have fewer people to sell their services and product to. Many will just go out of business compounding the problem.
7. We are on the road to a quasi Fascist State. There is no doubt about it at all anymore. Just look at Wisconsin and Michigan for example where the Governors have passed laws giving themselves “King Like” powers. Look at the bills the GOP/TP have blocked and/or opposed. Look at the 22 GOP/TP controlled States trying to disenfranchise American Citizen from their rights to vote. Just look at the ThinkProgress report last week on how the GOP/TP believes that Laws do not apply to them. And the list just goes on and on I have written about many before.
The bottom line is that we are being lied to by the politicians and we are on a path whereby we are going to loose many of our rights that brave people across this land gave their lives for us to have. The GOP/TP can spin and lie all they want but the handwriting is on the wall just look around you at what is going on and start connecting the dots. This is not good and the currently ideology is NOT compatible with democracy as we know it.
Right Navy. They are willing to strip Lady Liberty down to her nakedness, not on our watch.
In order to make the upcoming elections interesting and unbalanced, I’m quite certain those that benefit from controversy will flood the airwaves with reports that President Obama is American. Prior to these attempts, the media allowed this distraction to take center stage for at least 3 years and now that the Birthers are the spear head in efforts to promote this distraction over other things, i.e. the Economy, Jobs, Taxes, Education, Energy, Foreign Policy and American Values the media and the President’s critics will divert attention away the Birthers for the sake of revelations of this being a lost fight.
I’m certain the Birth Certificate will be on the Front Pages and Headlines in the months to come. The media could have done this long ago as the Birthers are nothing new. The critics see a landslide victory in the making for President Obama and will do anything to keep the race as a neck and neck agenda just to springboard their agenda of ratings. They also realize that once President Obama is re-elected that he will be a done deal and that he sets his policies with a Democratically Controlled House and Senate that there will no longer be a polarizing atmosphere generated by the Birthers and Hate-filled Republicans.
I’m certain when either Hillary Clinton, Colin Powell, Anthony Wiener or whoever else decides to pick up where the president left off in 2016, they will find something to screech about. But by then, our job will be done. The next generation of youth will be the leadership, the sons, my daughters, the president’s daughters; will provide the things this world needs.
“The philosophy of the school room in one generation will be the philosophy of government in the next.” Abraham Lincoln
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
At least this Tea Bagger had the tenacity to come forward and actually articulate what I've been stating for years…
Strong, liberal woman intimidate the cr@p out of conservative men!
Don't take my word for it...
You witness it every single day here at First Read!
One things for certain, Republican women don't send their sons off to military training at the age of 9, 18 OR 21!
Is it any wonder that one of the TOP priorities of the Party of misogyny's has been to wage WAR on women?
GOOD MORNING, Navy and Louis.
A great start by you guys in keeping the actual facts on the front burner.
I was traveling yesterday and couldn’t comment on the SC decision to not hear the challenge to the constitutionality of ClunkerCare on an expedited basis. It’s the right decision to let the case take its course through the normal process. That means the SC will likely hear it in the 2011-12 term and issue a decision in 2012 when ClunkerCare will be in full debate during the Presidential election. I believe the mandate is unconstitutional and, if the SC thinks so also, it will be very interesting to see our constitutional law professor President explain why he supported and signed an unconstitutional law.
Foolish Wit Governor Knows Worst National Story
Prelude: Donald Trump’s one-not"
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OqazLk5F4Zs/TaYGJ7vNL2I/AAAAAAAAABY/42EQ8P7r0xw/s1600/blog.bmp
You may think this a trivial exercise for Trump. It’s not it’s his rallying cry to the fringe. Don’t listen to this fringe lunatic.
The GOP/ t-Baggers know that America is waking up to them making America a near colony of China or India; and they have lost so what they do is invent mythical talking points for the gullible.
The GOP/ T Baggers are ‘taking this whole country hostage’
Gov. Rick Snyder signed into law in March a new statute that grants more powers to emergency managers appointed by the Treasury Department to take over distressed schools and communities.
Benton Harbor, Mich., is a town of nearly 11,000 people, about 90 percent of whom are African American. Benton Harbor may be to economic justice what Selma, AL was to civil rights.
Rachel said it best last night.
“What is new here is that this state has decided that local elections, locally elected officials are a problem that has to be done away with, that democracy is in the way of fixing problems in the United States now, of making things more efficient, particularly in poor places. Not that democracy is the way we fix problems but that democracy is the problem and it therefore needs to be sidestepped for efficiency sake, for our own good. Governor knows best.
Let’s give thanks to Rachel for her wit and hard word to keep us informed.
First the GOP came after our hard earned earnings. Then they shut down the jobs, now they taking over the schools and land to give. They want to shut down the democracy and turn the this land into a rich man’s playground. But they forget even the poorest people have a sense of dignity.
“The ultimate tragedy is not the oppression and cruelty by the bad people but the silence over that by the good people.” In Benton Harbor, it is time for the good people to make themselves heard.
Dr. King quote
The GOP/ T Baggers are ‘taking the whole country hostage’. But Republicans are facing the backlash at townhalls.
FOX NEWS is the "senior citizen" network.
Planned Parenthood neuters men ...?
Goodness gracious, who knew? But then, what are all these anti-abortion folks complaining about?
Oh, well, now you're talking MY language.
@Navy
OK you want to debate the issue or just cut paste criticisms of the Ryan plan?
"In the progressive middle is the People's Budget. Like Ryan's plan, the People's Budget would cut the budget deficit to zero by 2021, but would do so in an efficient and fair way. It would close the budget deficit by raising tax rates on the rich and giant corporations, while also curbing military spending and wrestling health care costs under control, partly by introducing a public option. By raising tax revenues to 22.3 percent of GDP by 2021, the People's Budget closes the budget deficit while protecting the poor and promoting needed investments in education, health care, roads, power, energy, and the environment in order to raise America's long-term competitiveness."
www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-sachs/the-peoples-budget_b_846573.html
Is this your alternative, or is it the President's debt commission or is it the President's budget or is it something new. Lets judge the cost or your proposals.
Feisty:
Great Post: I believe it is true that conservative men are intimidated by strong women. And you are correct, it can be seen here on FR. The party of old men who are losing their power to women and minority groups are feeling the pressure. The times, they are a changin.
If the constitutional law professor had a past precedent which said he should have known that the law he signed would be ruled unconstitutional then he'd be a fool to sign the law. This is uncharted territory.
And, please remember that you only need to ask one man's opinion if and when this case goes to the Supreme Court...Roberts, Scalia, Thomas and Alito will say it's not constitutional and Breyer, Ginsburg, Sotomayor and Kagan will say it is constitutional. You need only ask Kennedy.
In the Senate, the Gang of Six bi-partisan team is crafting a 2012 budget and a path to the future for balanced budgets. Paul Ryan is fine tuning the House version of the same bill and is conveying that same economic information to the American people. The Debt Commission senior members including Bowles, Simpson, and Rivlin continue their work to make America aware that the federal government must reduce it's spending.
And Obama continues to campaign for his re-election, demagoging each of the above people at every turn.
It's good to see some people have Americas best interests in mind. It's too bad some other people have only their own interests in mind.
LouisJ:
Solid post and thank you. You are correct we are headed down a very slippery slope. The erosion of our rights is evident now. This is how it starts if History has taught us anything. Once this ball gets rolling it has a tendency to gather momentum and becomes very difficult to stop let alone repair the damage it has created along the way.
"Our President" see this and he is the only one that is trying to derail this train wreck.
Feisty: Another excellent post today. Keep em coming my friend.
Now the GOP/TP is calling their Health Care repeal a "Premium Support Plan". You gotta be joking, nobody is going to be able to afford Health Care (Medicare and Medicaid) under their plan. Only the wealthy of which are the true beneficiaries of the current Ryan Model will be able to pay the premiums period. The rest will be pretty much left to fend for themselves. NOT GOOD.
Indeed they are Ron, and the party of pale male & stale, 'NO LIKEY', at ALL! ;o)
Wow, strong comments out of the gat this morning about the unamerican agenda of the GOPTP. The aggressiveness, the sheer audacity of the attack on the middle class is amazing. Of the many good points above the one I think is particularly important is this one;
In the GOPTP we're dealing with a group that doesn't believe in democracy. We're one step away from the new American aristocracy, and the aristocrats believe we should all know what's good for us and get out of the way.
The "Peoples Budget" is Paul Krugmans budget. As left-wing nutty as it gets. Vague on details, heavy on handwaving, and deeply into tax the rich class warfare. In short, it is the Perfect Storm of liberalism.
About that Ryan bill, and the risk for Republicans with the proposal?
Not so fast
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2011-04-25-Poll-Republicans-budget-deficit-trust.htm
Looks like all that democratic mud slinging did not work.
That is okay- it just gives Obama more time to come up with an effective campaign slogan.
Hope for Change is out- most people have had more than enough hope, and want a change.
Win the Future had the unfortunate connotation of WTF.
We Have Not Yet Finished the Job is a loser, because most people think he has done enough damage already.
Leading From Behind, yesterday's trial balloon, is laughable. Does that mean that the horse who comes in last at the Kentucky Derby gets the roses, because it was Leading From Behind?
What the heck IS a consequentionalist? Somebody who runs around trying to deal with the consequences of his inactions, wrong actions, and natural disasters? Not going to fly.
He should just go with the one he truly believes- re elect me, because I am me!
His only qualification for office was that he thought he deserved it. We are all paying for that.
Da Noid I think you hit the nail on Da head.
Navy,
In the time it took from of your first post to to your reply to Louis the second post, Obama just BORROWED $100 million.
We are broke. Medicare is broke. Medicaid is broke.
And Obama has no honest plan.
You lambaste Ryan for wanting to drop the tax rate from 35% to 25% for the richest 2%. Obama is above that threshold - HE IS A MILLIONAIRE AND EVEN HE DOESN'T PAY THE 35%. None of them do!
Lower the rate, eliminate the kabuki dance and let people make more money to tax at 25%. Studies show that tax avoidance (like Obama) is a cost 1/3 of taxes paid. Obama's best corporate buddy, GE, had a US return of 2,500 pages and ended up qualifying for a refund! Let that money go to productivity instead avoidance.
It is ridiculous to discourage productivity and growth by raising the capital gains tax. Moronic.
Do you have no understanding at all?
Job1:
Morning. It is amazing that the right is still trying to hold fast on their rhetoric of being the Party for the People even though their agenda has been exposed and the Ryan Bill is not going anywhere. It has been pretty much exposed for what it is.
There are a bevy of reports at CBPP, CEPR, CBO and other non-political sites that say this Bill will cause far more harm than good. It is the old bait and switch. It shifts money around and putting the burden on others, making the numbers look good but does not address one problem and in fact causes more.
It is not just about numbers, but policy as well. Anybody can manipulate numbers making any Balance Sheet or P&L look good, but typically they make invalid assumptions or assumptions that just cannot be met. And there is where the lies are. The Ryan Bill is full of bogus assumptions and ones that just are not realistic.
Yes, it makes the numbers look good on paper but the bottom line is that they will never be realized, period. Read the CBPP, CEPR and other reports. They all like to talk about 10, 15, 20 years or more from now. Sorry this is 2011 and I am concerned with the present not some pie in the sky future that will be different and that will be their excuse when their plan does not work.
Excellent analysis, US Navy. The Ryan budget is nothing but smoke and mirrors to appease the Grover Nordquist anti-tax groups and ensure that big business continues to fund the GOP/TP's campaigns and ensuring the wealthy add more to their income. Watching republicans at their town halls shows they were too quick to vote, failed to understand what the 2010 election was really about, and the people are paying attention--the voters are not buying what the Ryan plan is selling.
The GOP/TP continues to push the false choice that raising the debt ceiling will mean no one is serious about deficit and debt reduction which is nonsense. It is critical to the U.S., Wall Street and the Global economy that the ceiling be raised--without raising it, watch Wall Street crash (just as it did when the GOP voted against TARP the first time) and worldwide panic. Raising the ceiling does not mean both parties cannot continue to work at debt reduction. My guess is that most Americans had never heard of the debt ceiling before now and they do not realize it was raised seven (7) times during the Bush 43 administration.
The quickest way to deficit and debt reduction is to increase revenues via closing tax loopholes and increasing taxes on those who can afford to pay a little more. It is also important that the Government continue investing in America even if it requires more spending and debt in the short term because this spending will add jobs and increase revenues in the long term.
" It's too bad some other people have only their own interests in mind."
Hey, leave the ME Firsters out of this!
US Navy, Commander of the "Good Ship Lollipop" -
Bogus Assumptions?
What is more bogus than Obama saying we are for the people as he bankrupts the US?
Is he bankrupting the rich? Hardly. His rich buddies are doing great.
He is bankrupting and destroying the middle class.
This is something that folks tried to point out to you during the 2008 campaign...he's playing chess while you're playing checkers. He's looking at the whole board and like it or not actions have consequences.
I know you like to think about some ethereal concept called "American Exceptionalism" which apparently means you think we can do what we want when and where we want but our history is chock full of examples of "The Law of Unintended Consequences".
Is Murray an Irish/Scottish name?
Come on NBC, Mark Murray has been working hard here at First Read, getting up at the crack of dawn to put together these articles every single morning with Domenico. Shouldn't they get a chance to go on this trip? First Read has become a very popular site all over the internet. Their names are recognizable everywhere. They deserve to go overseas. This is a huge trip the President is taking in May. Poland. How I wish I was going. It's such a historical country; one which had such a huge impact on the 20th Century.
From blackwaterdog's site:
A small Irish village is pulling out all the stops and making sure it's spotless in anticipation of one of its most famous sons.
Moneygall in County Offaly is getting a facelift, as the rural village prepares to welcome the most powerful man in the world, Barack Obama, next month.
The impending visit to Ireland by the U.S. President has transformed the appearance of Moneygall. President Obama's great, great, great grandfather came from Moneygall and the president plans to swing by to his ancestral home during a two-day visit to Ireland.
And preparations for his arrival are giving the village a whole new look.
For instance, to ensure the presidential feet are made as comfortable as possible, the pavements are being dug up, re-laid and smoothed over as part of a huge refurb.
'He's coming to Moneygall, he's coming to my home town and I'm hopeful reality will really kick in if I'm privileged to meet the man and shake his hand.
'You have to pinch yourself. I got a bit taken aback when I saw the CIA here two weeks ago.
'I can only imagine what my reaction will be when the man himself actually lands here in the village.'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1379643/Stars-wipes-Villagers-embark-mass-spring-clean-Obamas-visit-Irish-ancestoral-home.html#ixzz1KdXxYctm
_________________________________________________________
The Obama Diary:
When Air Force One touches down in Dublin next month, a frail but sprightly gentleman nearing his 80th birthday will be on the tarmac to greet President Barack Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama. For US ambassador Dan Rooney, that moment will rank right up there with his Pittsburgh Steelers winning the Super Bowl.
The first time Rooney met Obama (then running as a candidate) was in Pittsburgh in September 2007: “I told him, ‘You gotta go to Ireland.’ He said, ‘I will, and I’ll go with you.’”
….Rooney used his prestige as the owner of the Steelers to win over crucial working-class areas of Pennsylvania, Ohio and West Virginia for Obama’s election. He arrived in Dublin, as the ambassador of a grateful president, on July 2nd, 2009, with two goals: to visit every county in Ireland, and to welcome a presidential visit.
Obama “is a friend, in addition to being the president”, Rooney explains. “I want him to have a good time . . . enjoy himself. He’s got a hard trip following.”
The US president and first lady are expected to reside with the Rooneys in the ambassador’s residence in the Phoenix Park. On Saint Patrick’s Day in 2010, Rooney recalls, Obama said, “Yes, I am coming to Ireland, and I’m staying at his house.”
As the ambassador notes, it already has very good security. Built in 1776 by a British colonel, the ambassador’s home is rented from the Irish Government for a symbolic one dollar each year. Presidents Kennedy, Clinton and George Bush snr have slept in the presidential suite, as well as Princess Grace and Bing Crosby.
Taoiseach Enda Kenny would like Obama to speak to tens of thousands of young people in Croke Park, where Rooney’s Steelers played in the mid-1990s. Its size and association with the GAA make it the most likely venue for a public address.
A visit to Co Mayo is a priority for the Taoiseach and for Patricia Rooney, the ambassador’s wife, whose parents emigrated from there.
“The schedule being so tight, I don’t know that that will happen,” Rooney said. “But it’s something that the Taoiseach and my wife really want.”
________________________________________________________
The President will visit Poland as part of his May 23-28 trip to Europe, during which he will also visit Ireland, the United Kingdom and France. In Poland he looks forward to reciprocating the visit of President Komorowski, whom he welcomed to the Oval Office in December 2010, as well as meeting Prime Minister Tusk. The President’s trip will further strengthen the close alliance between United States and Poland.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/03/21/presidents-travel-poland
Why are we still arguing about whether the US is "bankrupt"? In voting for the Ryan budget House Republicans have already signed onto a plan that adds $6T to the national debt, $60T before it finally reaches balance in the 2060s.
Any whining about raising the debt limit by Republicans now is just political posturing. They've already voted in favor of doing exactly that.
Obama is bankrupting and destroying future generations.
"But", says Obama, "they don't vote".
Others pols are taking on the leadersip roles for the country, making the hard and difficult choices, communicating the dire economic situation to the American people, and working hard for Americans future. The only thing Obama is playing is with himself.
John,
From the time of Navy's post to your post, Obama just BORROWED one fifth of a bllion dollars!
What is wrong with you guys?
Lets not forget that about 80% do not want Medicare, Medicaid or Social Security to go away. Even a majority of Republican citizens feel the same way. A majority of the people want the taxes to increase on the rich, hell there was even a piece on the news that people with taxable incomes of greater that $100,000 do not have a problem paying a little more as long as everybody pays a little more.
The Ryan Bill is built on a foundation of tissue paper. They rely heavily on a Heritage Foundation report that is inaccurate and misleading - CBPP, CEPR, CBO, etc. They can move these numbers around until hell freezes over and it will not change the fact this bill is not the answer.
The GOP/TP is overreaching on this and the Ryan Bill is going nowhere. It will not be passed. All it has done is exposed the right for what they are.
@Navy
Do a simple analysis of President Obama's tax return
Earned - 1.73M. Tax Paid $453,770 Effective tax rate = 26.2% NOT 35%
It's the deductions that make the difference. Almost $50K deduction on mortgage interest. How many middle class taxpayers claim this size of amount?
This is why Tax reform makes sense not tax increases!
US Navy-
I really don't know why you spend so much time on the Ryan budget. It will never be passed by a Democrat-controlled Senate, and if it were, it would promptly be vetoed by President Obama.
Similarly, the so-called "Peoples Budget" and the outline of a debt reduction proposal from President Obama will never pass the Republican House.
At present, there is only one existing plan with any hope of passing both Houses of Congress and being signed into law. That is the Plan from President Obama's debt commission.
There may soon be viable bipartisan legislation in the Senate from the "Gang Of Six" based on the debt commission proposal...provided that President Obama is unable to sufficiently undermine their efforts with still another new plan.
Ryan's plan will never be enacted. That's simply reality.
You are aware of that, aren't you?
By George, you're right, John B.
I'd love to hear someone here dispute that. But all I hear is crickets.
@Pat
Murray is a common variation of the word Moray, an anglicisation of the Medieval Gaelic word Muireb (or Moreb); the b here was pronounced as v, hence the Latinization to Moravia. These names denote the district on the south shore of the Moray Firth, in Scotland. Murray is a direct transliteration of how Scottish people pronounce the word Moray.
From what I know Murray is pretty Scottish.
I have been on this board for a long time, and now I feel compelled to do something I have never done before- ask the liberals for a favor.
Please keep hammering the Ryan plan- it makes it more popular day by day.
When first announced, it was way underwater, ( nobody likes to give up free goodies).
Now, after days of democratic hammering, it is even with the Obama "plan". ( since no one knows what that is, it is probably unfair, but more fair than the fact that this non plan was more popular than before the attacks.)
By 3 to 1, Americans blame SPENDING, not tax cuts, for ballooning the debt. 71% fear that democrats will not go far enough to address the problem- and 62% fear they will use it as an EXCUSE to raise taxes.
So, while 64% fear the Ryan plan will "hurt the poor", they still favor republicans to fix the debt by 12 points. They also think the republicans are more capable of fixing the economy, this time by 5 points.
Keep hammering, liberals! With your help, in a couple of weeks, the Ryan plan could have 75% support.
By the way, the link for this is in my earlier post. I assume you have all seen it, since it is the talking point of the day.
Lead From Behind! It is always good to come in last! How else can you be a consequentionalist?
But yet, Bob, we are still PAYING the salaries of the members of Congress. And they are STILL getting a paycheck from the Government, with real money, backed by the full faith and confidence of the Government that is 'broke'.
You can be that those knuckleheads are cashingthose checks, too.
If we were 'broke', then NO ONE would be getting paid, right Bob?
The mere fact that people are still getting paid means that we are NOT broke. We have record deficits and we have debt that needs to be serviced.
And guess what that debt is being serviced with?
MONEY. Lots of it. Paid by the Government.
So, Bob, cut the 'we're broke' crap. Your Hero Speaker Boehner doesn't even say that anymore.
I wonder why...?
The fact is that the rich cannot cover Obama's overspending even if they were willing.
Business will have to be taxed more. Business knows it - hence the uncertainty and cautious recovery.
The tax will be a European style VAT tax.
Add that to the Stupidity Tax, the higher gas and energy prices for everything we buy and use because Obama doesn't have a sane energy policy and the middle class will be crippled by Obama for years after he he gone.
bob-1805084
Navy,
In the time it took from of your first post to to your reply to Louis the second post, Obama just BORROWED $100 million.
We are broke. Medicare is broke. Medicaid is broke.
bob-1805084
Navy,
In the time it took from of your first post to to your reply to Louis the second post, Obama just BORROWED $100 million.
We are broke. Medicare is broke. Medicaid is broke.
It just keeps on getting worse with you; booby. Medicare is not broke. Medicare is solvent until l 2029.
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/index.html
Why do you intentionally LIE so much.
You are so out of touch.
Pietro:
They never let the facts get in the way of their rhetoric. They even make some up.
Yes I know the top tax BRACKET is 35% and there is no way the top 2% would ever pay the 35% since they have to go through all 5 previous brackets which dilutes the effective rate. I have written this before. All that was pointed out that the 26%+ example that was posted would also be LOWER under the Ryan Bill. See people, these people will try and spin anything to make a point that is basacially irrelvant as that 26+% effective rate would also go down under Ryans Plan.
Nice try at spinning but not buying it.
The tax bracket for the top would be reduce from 35% to 25%. That also implies that the effective rate will also decrease on your example. The Capital Gains will stay at 15% and they would pay NO ESTATE TAXES.
Thanks for playing.
Pietro,
If we have money, why did Obama BORROW just a quarter of a billion dollars from the time of Navy's first post to the time of your post?
Pietro - don't be an imbecile like Bev.
Unless legislation addressing long-term U.S. debt is enacted soon, the United States faces the real prospect of a sovereign debt crisis.
President Obama told us only two weeks ago that by 2025, if we remain on our present course, the nation will be able to pay only for health programs, Social Security, and interest on the national debt. That's it. Nothing else.
This fiscal year, more than 40 cents of every dollar spent by the federal government is borrowed. That kind of borrowing isn't sustainable. Everyone from Tim Geithner to Paul Ryan to Alice Rivlin to Erskine Bowles and Alan Simpson agrees on that, if nothing else.
To be enacted, any plan to address the debt crisis must meet two conditions:
One, the plan must be a serious, credible effort to reverse the present rate of growth in the debt while moving the nation in the direction of a balanced budget;
Two, the plan must be able to pass both Houses of Congress, and be signed into law by President Obama.
Any lengthy discussion of plans that don't meet those two conditions is a waste of time.
Liberals:
STOP EXAGGERATING!!!!!! QUIT taking everything out of context.
Damn, everything that a Republican suggest is taken wayyyyyy out to leftfield. This is the exact reason Liberals have lost so many elections in the last 30 yrs.
Some of you in here need to look at the crap you cut N paste sometimes, everyone knows it is a total exaggeration of facts.
I guess the country, and a person for that matter, is never "broke". Well, at least until the lines of credit dry up.
NJ, show us where you got those numbers or just plain admit that you made them up on the spot!
I used one example and you use that as a generalization. So I'll try again. What exactly are you for? An increase in rates to 39% but keep the deductions. An increase to a higher number? A removal of the cap on SS? What estate tax is fair?
You're very good at saying what you don't want but the thing is the status quo is no longer sustainable. Your President ran on the slogan of "Change we can believe In" well what changes do you what to see in the tax code?
B.Honest, read my first post. Follow the link to the USA Today/ Gallup poll.
That is where I got the numbers-asi said in my post.
They're from USA Today
www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2011-04-25-Poll-Republicans-budget-deficit-trust.htm
Gee, Bob, since you cannot refute what I was stating about being 'broke', you resort to calling people names. I guess that is typical of you, Bob, since all you do is come on here and blather about things that are easily refuted.
For the record, I LIKE Bev and her posts, and she certainly post more citations and proof of her positons that I have ever seen you do. All I see from your posts are steaming piles of hyperbole.
So, to reiterate - We are NOT Broke (especialy when people/businesses are being paid and we still transact business with American currency, backed by the full faith and confidence of the United States Government).
I guess this is a Bob-ism - one of many.
Thanks, Alan. I put the link in my first post- even invited people to go back for it. Guess B.Honest did not read that far.
In other news, it looks like,possibly, the talking point about little people's nickels and dimes funding the Obama campaign might just be a little more true this time than last time.
In 2008, you might remember, the media bought gook, line, and sinker that particular talking point- which, by the way, was untrue. Less than 25% of his contributions were from little people- the rest were from big donors, indeed.
This time he is having trouble with those big donors
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703461504576231121265117538.html
Gee.
Most of the people who post regularly at First Read don't like Paul Ryan very much...that's obvious. Some apparently think he's actually evil...a malevolent misanthrope determined to destroy the safety net for the poor to benefit the wealthy. The more honest bloggers here know, however, that Paul Ryan is no dummy...he's an extremely intelligent man.
I find it difficult to believe that anyone here actually was of the opinion that Rep. Ryan ever imagined that his budget was going to sail through the Republican House, breeze through the Democrat-controlled Senate, then be promptly signed into law by President Obama.
That's utter nonsense. Paul Ryan never believed that for one minute.
His plan will never be signed into law, but it has forced the President to address the debt issue. It has pushed the President ever closer to the Plan of the debt commission while making the President discard his own initial budget proposal.
President Obama's first budget proposal claimed to reduce spending by $1.1 trillion over 10 years while adding $13 trillion in new gross debt over the same period; his latest outline of a proposal now suggests that spending be reduced by about $2.9 trillion over 10 years...inadequate, but moving in the right direction.
If the "Gang Of Six" in the Senate succeeds in producing a viable bipartisan plan that's eventually signed into law, that plan is going to look a lot more like Ryan's budget that the initial budget submitted by the Obama Administration last February.
Who knows...it might actually be serious enough for Rep. Ryan to vote for.
Either way, Ryan's plan will have provided a valuable service by changing the dynamics of the debate.
For some odd reason, liberals have to construct this fantasy land where deficits and debt does not matter, that as long as someone, somewhere provides us with our daily fix of money, well than, everything is just so peachy. That's the same point of view a heroin addict takes I guess. Live for the fix for today, and to h*ll with the consequences of tomorrow.
And like the heroin addict, the country is going to go through some rehab soon. It's not going to be pretty.
You don't have to be evil to want to destroy the social safety net, just wrong.
My favorite uncle was a John Birch Society member. He was far from evil, just more wrong in his politics than most people.
Now the JBS and their philosophies form the core of the Conservative Movement.
John B-
Do you seriously believe that Paul Ryan ever thought that his budget would be signed, unaltered, into law...given political realities?
That's just silly, John. As I said...complete nonsense.
The question then becomes: How much of a reduction in the rate of increase of debt is actually achievable?
We're going to find out, aren't we, John?
At least I hope so, anyway.
The alternative is simply unimaginable.
I love liberals, I really do. They remind me so often of days gone by.
Just recently, I have heard more about the John Birch Society than I have in over thirty years!
Then, there is the ludicrous- I understand Obama is planning to run as a D.C. outsider!
At least they provide laughs as they merrily destroy our country.
Oh my - Pietro is making the classic "but I can't be broke I still have checks in my checkbook" argument.
Really Pietro, that's what you got?
What happens when China stops buying our debt? Our government cannot run absent huge deficits. That's broke.
I do wonder - you libbies always say debt doesn't matter. And we know the feds can print money at will. So why even have taxes? Print away, right guys?
What could go wrong.
So now the Ryan budget is such a disaster it was never meant to be taken seriously.
I guess that covers the entire GOPTP, so I'm good with that.
Nice try, Mixed bag, of trying to deflect the fact that the Ryan Plan is going over like a lead balloon with the electorate. The mere fact that the GOPers and the Tea Partyers are having trouble selling this to their constituents is GLARINGLY obvious. Your line of thinking also ASSumes that people believe the GOPers and the Tea Partyers to be sincere in their efforts to deal with a ballooning deficit.
You would be WRONG in that assumption.
Although I have no problem with the vouchers and/or the block grants that would be given to the States for Medicaid, the Ryan plan does NOT address what they would do in the case of rising prices. It is foolish to think that a voucher or a block grant would cover ALL of a person's Healthcare - especially older persons - with one fixed amount. This removes the 'health care' from the equation, and people literally become chattle - where their 'worth' is predetermined by a voucher.
For someone to come up with a plan that reduces seniors to 'chattle', that is cynical indeed.
In the Ryan Plan, if you look at the charts that have been presented, you will see projections for revenues that are FLAT - meaning that the Ryan Plan ASSumes that the revenues will be STATIC forthe next 5-7 years.
Now why would the Ryan Plan make THAT assumption?
I don't know about you, but if you are making a projection, you would at least project the AVERAGE of increases and decreases of revenues in respect to the Budget. The CBO estimates have shown that we have had INCREASING revenues over the past 10 years, so how can you justify a STATIC projection of revenues?
The Ryan Plan had NO PROBLEM showing a STEEP increase in the COST curves as shown. Funny that the revenue curve was flat. That is a BIG red Flag for me, and it seems that the seniors that are pummeling the GOPers and the Tea Partyers who voted for this see that as an issue as well.
You have got to love the BS that Mixed Bag is pushing now. The fact of the matter is that the GOPers and the Tea Partyers FULLY INTENDED this to get to the President's desk and they were DARING him to veto it to make a political point. They thought that with all of the people saying that the 'Government spends too much' this was a prime opportunity to slash all that conservatives loathe about Government Programs. They though that they had the backing of the electorate to force the President's hand.
It is VERY obvious that the GOPers and the Tea Partyers have overreached.
AGAIN.
Now they are backpedaling faster than a clown on a unicycle, trying to reframe the debate because the highly vaunted Ryan Plan is crashing and burning.
As usual, Spanky sees only what he wants to see. I was directly addressing Bob who said, and I quote -
My assessment is that we are NOT broke, as long as we are still able to pay Congress members and American money is being used to satisfy debts with the full faith and confidence of the American Government backing that money. So if that was the case, how are we 'BROKE'?
That also blows Spanky's 'checkbook' quip out of the water.
But, Spanky, you can believe what you want.
Pietro-
Now...be fair. I did say that MOST of the bloggers here at First Read could understand that Rep. Ryan didn't expect a Democrat-controlled Senate and President Obama to rubber-stamp his budget proposal.
Others were bound to find that concept challenging...predictably, the same ones who have repeatedly demonstrated that they simply can't get their heads around the concepts and implications of debt and deficits.
I wasn't speaking to you, Pietro. Obviously.
Move along, now...
Really, JAS1? Like the LIBERALS Ronald Regan and your mentor and hero, Dick Cheney, who famously stated that 'Deficits don't matter'?
Like THOSE Liberals, Joanna?
You really need to get out of your cave more often, Joanna.
Of course you weren't Mixed Bag, because I can spot BS when I see it. Your argument is BS, and you CANNOT refute what I have posted. And yes, I HAVE read the Ryan Proposal. Nice try, though, on trying to reframe the argument.
I like the backpedaling you are doing on your unicycle.
Pretty Fancy.
Backpedaling, Pietro?
Everything I've said here at First Read is a matter of record...you have access to that record.
I have never expressed support for the plan outlined in the Ryan budget. I have supported the Plan crafted by President Obama's debt commission for one all-important central reason: I believe that some version of the bipartisan debt commission Plan can pass both Houses of Congress and be signed into law by President Obama.
And, I've said exactly that again and again here at First Read.
If you can't produce quotes from me suggesting otherwise, Pietro, this simply amounts to another example of you not knowing what you're talking about.
One of many examples, I'm afraid.
Are we done, or do you wish to continue telling me what I've said and what I believe, Pietro?
johnb - care to elaborate on how any complex bill makes it thru the house, senate and presidential sign off without change?
Pietro - take your meds!
Wheels on the GOP/TP bus are wobbling - the question is whether the lugnuts are loose, or the wheel bearings are burning up. Either way, at the rate they're going now, the wheels are just plain coming off.
FIRST: Last year's Tea Party voters are this year's opposition to the Tea Party's failures.
The voters are angry in the extreme - some polls put the results at almost 80% - over the blatant hypocrisy of freshmen GOP/TP House members who voted to eliminate Medicare and effectively destroy Medicaid, as proposed in the Ryan budget. And the voters are now holding those same freshman officeholders for failing to act on the issues they raised in the 2010 campaign.
It was, it is, and it will be, the economy, stupid!
Election Day, 2010: Exit polls showed voters by 73% felt the leading issue was jobs and the economy. Only 23% thought that the Health Care Access bill was an issue. Some 56% of the voters said the Tea Party meant nothing to their votes; only 22% said it did.
Polls since then have been relatively consistent on the same matters.
The House Republican majority has been hijacked by a small number of extremist ideologues, pursuing an agenda that would forever change the face of America. And that is the point, of course - attacking public institutions, programs and a philosophy of government long despised by the ultra-right. Now they are becoming more frantic. The raucous town hall meetings and high level of voter anger they just encountered is a cloud over their day in the sun.
If the ultra-right continues to dominate the Repubublican Party, it's certain their day in the sun will go dark in 2012. So of course the foolish Tea Party/Libertarian contingent is going to be even more intractable in pursuit of their long-held dream - who knows if they will ever, ever again get a chance?
Oops. How does THAT square with restoring voters' confidence?
SECOND: Is there a candidate in the room?
The meltdown of the national Republican Party is moving ever faster. When absolute "fringe" jobs like Donald Trump and Newt Gingrich are drawing relatively substantial support, it's clear that the GOP has been pushed into a corner from which it quite possibly may never emerge. Again, the domination of an actual minority of voters who favor the extremist ideology of the Tea Party is poison to the Republicans.
Take a real look around the Republican Party now: There's no one in charge.
THIRD: Ultimately, the shrill hysteria over debt and deficit fails to move the nation
The United States is still recovering, fortunately at an improving rate, from the Bush Recession. The programs put in place under President OPbama and the Democrats worked and the people at large can see this. Yes, employment growth lags - but it is growing, rather than falling to terrible depths as was happening when George W. Bush left office.
Unfortunately neither the GOP or the Tea Party want that to continue. They proposed an ideologically-driven policy plan, under the mask of a budget, that would almost certainly crash the recovery, increase unemployment, and thow millions into the streets to starve.
It was, it is, and it will be, the economy, stupid!
They raise the spectre of a false demon, their fiscal Baal, debt! deficit! disaster! as if it is an immediate crisis so terrifying that nothing else matters.
There is no national fiscal crisis. The country is not "broke." The nation's finances indeed demand careful stewardship - which is not served by intentionally plunging headlong into an abyss because the ultra-right must, must, must pursue its ideological objectives regardless of consequences.
Such inane proposals as closing the Federal Reserve, returning to a "hard money" policy of gold and silver specie, mandating a balanced budget, and many more of the Tea Party and Libertarian proposals is out of step with reality, known from history to be unworkable and destructive to the nation, and absolutely impractical.
The President has offered policy proposals for a more workable budget, proper and timely attention to the national debt and deficits, and eventually repaying to both Medicare and Medicaid trust funds the country has borrowed. Social Security, fortunately remains healthy for a much longer period, so that attention first to the nation's health services is apropos. And shutting those programs down is not a possibility.
Now more Americans realize that the Tea Party and Libertarians are shouting about an issue that is itself a diversion, a manufactured "crisis" that isn't real, and whose resolution as suggested by the right wing is in fact a lie that only makes matters worse.
Mixed Bag, I never said you did. Nice deflection, though. I was calling BS on THIS following statement that you DID post, and I quote:
The mere fact that you KNEW that Paul Ryan went through all of the trouble to craft and present a plan that he KNEW was not going to pass is what I was calling BS on.
And how would you KNOW that Rep Ryan worked tirelessley on this plan in vain?
Like I said - that is BS.
The fact that the electorate is does NOT want the GOPers and the Tea Partyers to cut Medicare and Medicaid is what is rattling the GOPers right now and they are trying to save face.
Just like you are right now.
Pietro, why do you get so angry when people challenge you?
Deficits do matter Pietro. The debt matters. The amount of money we as a nation that are required to spend every year to service the debt matters. You want to talk about how those things affect the country, and in not such a good way, we can do that.
You want to change the subject to Reagan and Cheney, fine. See'ya.
John A.-
Last year, President Obama issued an executive order to create a debt commission to address "a manufactured 'crisis' that isn't real"...as though he suspected it might actually BE real;
In December, President Obama's debt commission submits its Plan to deal with "a manufactured 'crisis' that isn't real"...the commission says the crisis IS real;
Two weeks ago, President Obama addressed the nation on the subject of "a manufactured 'crisis' that isn't real"...the President tells the nation the crisis IS real;
At that time, President Obama produced the broad outlines of a plan to deal with "a manufactured 'crisis' that isn't real"...just as if it WERE actually real;
And, President Obama instructed Vice President Biden to head a new bipartisan group intended to create legislation aimed at addressing "a manufactured 'crisis' that isn't real"...just as if it WERE actually real.
President Obama's behavior displays an air of unreality, doesn't it, John A.?
John A, as always a compelling argument from your keyboard.
In particular I find the arguments that we go back on the gold standard both quaint and worrying. There are good reasons why the entire world came off the gold standard during the Great Depression--it was both worsening the crisis and preventing a solution.
Why is it that when I call BS on what is being posted I am being 'angry'? Why is it when I point out the absurdities of what is being posted as FACT I am being 'angry'? Why is it that when I refute 'talking points' I am being 'angry'?
I am all over a challenge, but you have to admit that some of the things that are being posted by the right-wing on this blog are downright bizarre.
I am glad to see that you are finally coming around, Joanna. Just so we can be sure we are talking about the same thing, here is what you've posted:
I just brought up the fact that Ronald Reagan and Dick Cheney seemed to think that Deficits did NOT matter. I am glad to see that you have broken from the party line, now that it is advantageous of you to do so. I am not changing any subject, just stepping over the steaming pile of hyperbole that you drop hourly on this blog.
You cannot refute my posts, so you think I am changing the subject?
Carry on, then.
Pietro-
Still insisting that Rep. Ryan expected his bill to sail through Harry Reid's Senate and enjoy a triumphant signing ceremony by President Obama in the Rose Garden?
Silly boy.
Complete, total, and utter fantasy...not to mention a dismal understanding of the legislative process.
It's astonishing that you actually believe it...I'm guessing Paul Ryan's a lot less naive on that notion.
And...what, exactly, were you accusing me of "backpedaling" on, if not support for the Ryan budget?
What am I "pushing'" now that I wasn't pushing before, Pietro?
Nice backpedaling yourself on the rest, by the way...
Now when did I say there would be a triumphant signing ceremony? Here is what I posted:
So where does that square up with your assertion?
It doesn't.
More BS from Mixed Bag... move along... noting to see here.
www.ontheissues.org/2004/Dick_Cheney_Budget_+_Economy.htm
Cheney to Treasury: "Deficits don't matter" Former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill was told "deficits don't matter" when he warned of a looming fiscal crisis.
O'Neill, fired in a shakeup of Bush's economic team in December 2002, raised objections to a new round of tax cuts and said the president balked at his more aggressive plan to combat corporate crime after a string of accounting scandals because of opposition from "the corporate crowd," a key constituency.
O'Neill said he tried to warn Vice President Dick Cheney that growing budget deficits-expected to top $500 billion this fiscal year alone-posed a threat to the economy. Cheney cut him off. "You know, Paul, Reagan proved deficits don't matter," he said, according to excerpts. Cheney continued: "We won the midterms (congressional elections). This is our due." A month later, Cheney told the Treasury secretary he was fired.
The vice president's office had no immediate comment, but John Snow, who replaced O'Neill, insisted that deficits "do matter" to the administration.
Source: [X-ref O'Neill] Adam Entous, Reuters, on AOL News Jan 11, 2004
As I posted in detail some weeks ago on FR/FT, the idea of a looming fiscal crisis posing a desperate and immediate urgent demand for drastic action is a manufactured issue - a Tea Party lie.
In that earlier post, which took the trouble to define "crisis" and to address the issue of immediacy, I made quite clear and indisputable the fact the country is not in the condition of Spain, Greece, Ireland or Iceland, and has the strength to deal with its fiscal issues in a thoughtful and measured way.
There is an absolute requirement, as I wrote above, to provide wise stewardship of the nation's finances. What the Ryan budget, and other Tea Party proposals, represent is nothing like wise stewardship.
The President, on the other hand, has taken responsible steps to set out plans that both preserve the economic health of the nation and address the issues of deficits and debts.
The Republicans are simply shouting "FIRE!" in a crowded theater to see who gets killed in the panic. And they don't care about the body count. There is NO Deficit and Debt "Crisis" at this time to justify their rash and bootless actions.
JoAnnaSmith1
For some odd reason, liberals have to construct this fantasy land where deficits and debt does not matter,
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They're just repeating what conservative Idol Dick Cheney stated (which was met with nothing but silence from conservative idol worshipers).
Salt Grass, there is one little flaw in your argument- Bush cut the deficits.
In 2004, the year you mentioned, O'Neill was a little off in his projection. The actual budget deficit was $412.85 billion.
In 2005, the deficit declined to $318.62 billion. It declined again in 2006, to $247.7 billion. And again in 2007, to $163 billion.
It then increased, to $407 billion, in 2008.
And, yes, those numbers DO include the costsnof the wars
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0221/p01s03-usec.html
I get so tired of that false talking point.
Those look like the good old days, do they not? When we were complaining about deficits under half a trillion dollars- rather than a trillion and a half?
Pietro-
For me to have backpedaled on the matter of whether or not I believed that the Ryan budget would ever reach President Obama's desk, again...I challenge you (for the second time...lol) to produce quotes from me saying that I did believe it.
Are you backing down on that as well?
This has to have been one of our more entertaining exchanges, Pietro.
You're pretty sure I've been inconsistent...but you're unable to explain how or why, exactly.
Very amusing.
Again, we have more deflection. The conversation was about me calling BS on JS1 for her assertion that only LIBERALS want deficits. I stated the Dick Cheney stated that 'Deficits do not matter'. Salt Grass (and thank you for your post) solidified the argument that JS1 was WRONG in her assertion (as evidenced by the lack of a snappy quip from her).
Now, we have this.
The fact that the deficit was reduced during the time period is NOT the point. What IS the point is that Dick Cheney stated that 'Deficits don't matter' and Treasury Secretary O'Neill seemingly lost his job because he dared voice concern about the deficit with then Vice President Cheney.
All the while the deficit(s) have been mounting, and only NOW this is an issue for the GOP and the Tea Partiers because they feel they can get a political advantage by blaming it on the Democrats, just like JS1 did.
So the fact that the deficit was lowered - which is a GOOD thing - but THAT not germaine to this conversation. Since you are SO DESPERATE to find ANY GOOD THING that President Bush did about the budget to bolster your argument, then have at it.
We know the TRUTH. We know what happened. We are living the consequences.
Ah, the innocence of early 2007, mere moments before the onset of the Great Recession;
As far as claims that the costs of war were included, that's a lie;
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0221/p01s03-usec.html
In May of the same year, MONTHS after the Christian Science Monitor wrote the above;
http://articles.cnn.com/2007-05-01/politics/congress.iraq_1_funds-military-operations-war-funding-withdrawal-timetable?_s=PM:POLITICS
I am not making an argument, just posting an actual statement from 2004. If I had a point it was that the republican talking points change from one extreme to another.
Um, John, where exactly did you provide proof that the prior year war spending was not included in the deficit for that year?
Oh. That's right. You didn't.
You spun. You brought in a lot of other stuff that had no bearing on it. You tried to protect your precious talking point.
You could not provide proof because it does not exist.
I have no doubt, however, that you will continue to spread that lie. After all, it suits your purpose.
Given that in one year, Obama's deficits are more than TRIPLE bush's, it's all you've got.
Good Lord. Pietro, you are really, how do say this in a polite fashion, totally off your rocker. You're concocting things in your mind when you claim I said "only liberals want deficits". You certainly (further) marginalize yourself when you make ridiculous statements like that. Do you have a point to make with an outright lie like that?
Oh Pietro. My gosh. How out of touch are you? The debt was created by both Democrats and Republicans Pietro, when they both controlled either the White House or the Congress, or both. The Republicans are starting to understand the problem now though Pietro. The debt needs to be dealt with, and they are putting plans in place that even affect the up until now hands-off entitlements. The Democrats are being dragged kicking and screaming to the party, but even some of them seem to be starting to get it.
Americans want the federal government to live within its means and to not pass on this massive debt for future generations to pay for. You don't seem to think it's a problem, but many others do. You're into this ridiculous "Don't blame me, blame him!" mode for some unknown reason. Fine, if you want to waste your time with that, you can be our guest. Going forward, both Democrats and Republicans have to take the political risks for dealing with this problem.
There is no doubt that the GOP addressing the debt issue along with entitlement reform, and this is politically risky postion for them Pietro, change is hard you know. If a majority of the people don't like the changes the GOP proposes, they'll be voted out of the House majority in 2012, and Obama will win and the Senate will stay in Democratic hands. But I think the People of the country "get it" Pietro. Maybe soon you and the Democrats will too.
Game and match, Pietro, well played, and won. So much fun to see poor JS1 totally lose any ability to post substantively, (not that she ever does) and no jo, as usual is floating around in her "I hate our President because....well because.....he was one of the cool kids and I wasn't." In fact, it defies credulity to see the haters pretend that the Republican party did not send the U.S. into a tail spin when Bush was in office, and that they continue those antics now. But, this was fun to read, Pietro! Kudos to you!
JS1, you are making this too easy. Did you or did you NOT just post the following, and I am QUOTING you:
Now am I supposed to believe your faux outrage or my lyin' eyes?
Ah, but in 2004 Vice President Cheney seemed to think that 'Deficits didn't matter'. Remember that? Where was the urgency to 'pare down the deficit' then?
The Republicans are 'starting to get it'? I think not. There is no mention of cutting the defence budget (even though Secretary Gates has publically stated that $200 BILLION can be cut without much effect to his department). There is NO legislation from Congress that directly deals with the deficit. There is no legislation that would streamline Government operations, saving us $200 BILLION in the process. There is no legislation to eliminate tax subsidies for oil and gas companies that are making record profits, which wold save approximately $40 BILLION. There is no legislation to go after those who have minimg rights who have NOT paid over $1 BILLION in fees owed the Government.
So when are the Republicans starting to 'get it'?
If I am 'off my rocker', as you put it, then much of the electorate is as well because they are seeing through the hyperbole and lies. The fact of the matter is that if the Republicans really 'get it', they would be busy with legislation that would bolster REVENUES as well as cuts in the budget. All we have seen from Replicans is their quest to defund Planned Parenthood and trying to make abortion funding a budget issue.
SO when ARE the GOPers and the Tea Partyers going to 'get it'?
When they are out of office on the sidewalk, wondering 'what just happened?'.
JohnA - if there is no hurry to address the deficit/debt why did obama tell congress that he expected it to be addrressed by the end of June? seems that he is the one in a hurry.
Pietro - you are so out of touch. Ryan's plan was passed by the House and puts the country on a path to economic sanity. You don't like it? Fine. Whatever. Deal with it, elections have consequences and all.
Now the bill is in the Senate, and at last look, that was controlled by the Democrats. If the Democrats want the taxes you rant about in their bill, they can put them in. If the Democrats want to cut defense, they can go nuts and cut it all if they want. If they want to streamline government operations, be our guest. And what has the Senate done with the 2012 budget Pietro? What has the Senate done to bolster REVENUES? Yeah, that's right, not a thing. Maybe the Senate Democrats are a little afraid to actually have votes on raising taxes Pietro? Maybe they're a little shy about going on the record for "streamlining the government" (I.e., firing government workers)? Maybe those Defense jobs you want to cut are really union jobs? Well the Democrats are owned by the unions Pietro, maybe they don't want to cut those jobs. Sure looks that way.
Lots of ex-Democratic legislators walking those sidewalks today Pietro. More to come next year.
Helps to know the whole context. The President wants to tackle the serious issues of the 2011-1012 budget early enough to make real progress without the kind of "rush to judgement" in the Ryan proposal. And the President has put forward a plan that is far more realistic and takes measured steps to address the nation's finances, in reasonable time, without going into a hair's-on-fire "crisis" mode.
Again, this is responsible stewardship of the nation's finances.
And we have even MORE redirection and hyperbole from JS1 (excuse me for a minute because I think I got some of that hyperbole on the bottom of my shoe).
I see that you have FORGOTTEN - already - that the HOUSE is charged with writing budget legislation, NOT the Senate. THAT IS THEIR JOB. The Senate will debate that legislation, and will send it BACK TO THE HOUSE TO BE REDONE if they cannot find agreement.
THAT is what our Government does, JoAnna. It is the HOUSE that has to craft budget legislation, and from the looks of it, the House is FAILING MISERABLY. As far as having Democrats adding language to the current budget bill that was passed by the House, we both know that will NEVER get past Speaker Boehner and Majority Leader Cantor, so why bring it up?
Talking about blaming the Democrats for the budget legislation, wasn't it YOU who JUST posted the following, and I qoute:
Imagine that... blaming the Democrats for lousy Budget legislation... and you accuse ME of being in the 'Don't Blame me, blame him' mode?
You CANNOT make this stuff up.
So you were saying, JoAnna?
JoAnnaSmith1-
I've been through this again and again with Pietro.
He simply doesn't understand the implications of the projections regarding U.S. debt.
I believe...based on experience, that he never will.
Don't waste your time arguing on the merits of the debt issue.
You simply won't penetrate Pietro's impenetrable, obtuse wall of denial about the implications of U.S. debt.
Still...I love debating Pietro.
It's sooooo easy, isn't it?
Pietro - Might want to grab a Civics 101 book. The Senate can pass any legislation it wants, and if it differs from the House version of the bill, it will not go back to the House to be "redone", but will go to a conference committee that works out the differences.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_congressional_conference_committee
The House of course has voted and passed it's version of the 2012 budget and sent it to the Senate. Still waiting on the Senate to do anything with it. Think they'll get around to it anytime soon Pietro? Got a lot of confidence in the "Gang of Six" do you? Yeah, me neither.
And it's not that the Democrats have "lousy" deficit/debt reduction legislation Pietro, it's that they have none! None that does as well a job as President Obama own Commission plan specifices, or what Ryan's budget specifies.
As have others. It does get old.
There is no serious attempt at reducing the deficit. Any budget for more than two years is a waste of time. Any deficit reduction plan that does not encompass raising taxes, revenues and cutting expensive is a fools folly.
Pietro - you are so out of touch. Ryan's plan was passed by the House and puts the country on a path to economic sanity. You don't like it? Fine. Whatever. Deal with it, elections have consequences and all................. WOW. So why is everyone backtracking? Could it be because of the town hall meetings they won't show?
JS1, You need to let it go. Pietro have you over the barrel. When you lie you simply ignore, when it's pointed out. You should at least show that you have some integrity.
Example.....
JS1, you are making this too easy. Did you or did you NOT just post the following, and I am QUOTING you:
Now am I supposed to believe your faux outrage or my lyin' eyes?
Wow, good job Fletch!
Ditto what NDD said Fletch!
Like shootin fish in a barrel with these idiots! ;o)
JohnA - please, ryans 1.0 plan is within a 10 year initial time frame, obamas is within a 12 year time frame. FY 2012 budget needs to be in place by oct of this year. Regardless of what you say...
obama is still wanting to push for speed, or do you wish to tell us that obama didn't say anything about having a viable plan ready by the end of june 2011? Since the ryan proposal has been passed and given to the senate, how can you imply that ryans proposal is a "rush to judgement"? Has the senate even discussed it? Offer any amendments? Do you think reid and biden are hoping that the "gang of 6" will come thru?
I find your following observation most refreshing within the realm of re-election rhetoric...
Yes, a proposed 10 year plan is such a "hairs on fire crisis mode" compared to obamas 12 year plan. Let's not forget obamas "measured approach" as well. BTW - when do you think obama will give us his plan (a plan that he would accept), with a list of expenditures and cuts, January 2013?
Feet dragging, diminishing ryans work (wasn't it obama who campaigned on promoting bipartisanship?) and no numbers (after all isn't finances all about numbers?) is hardly "responsible stewardship" of anything.
For all of obamas efforts to read reagans biography over christmas, obama sure didn't learn how reagan worked with o'neil and the senate to get budgets and legislation passed. Just think, with the exception of two years, reagan had to work with both a democrat controlled house and senate.
Fletch2... - ref post 1.89; how does this...
equal this in being a lie?...
fletch, you either copied JS1 wrong or you think those two block quotes you copied define a lie in some otherworldly way.
If you think I copied wrong, then you should read for yourself. None so blind as those who will not see.
since you say you didn't copy wrong (ref post 1.89), where is the lie? You gave the example, where is the lie within the context of your example? One shouldn't need to go back to the original rhetoric for proof if you posted accurately.
The only
The only pragmatism exhibited is by the President alone. Everyone else (lawmakers) pale in comparison.
President Obama has dealt with the most poisoned atmosphere the country has dealt with in the last 100 years. The sheer amount of vitriol from our fellow countrymen (mostly Republicans) is astounding as they have publicly displayed immoral behaviors that line up with paganism and dictator style conduct. I have yet to see anything that remotely resembles caring for the sick, clothing the naked, visiting the lost, feeding the hungry. All I hear is, "I don't need my money to help anyone other than the Rich Slavemasters." It's a shame.
We're taking our country back from groups that have stolen it from Liberty. Those other groups that want to take the country back only want to take it back to the era of "NO" Rights. Not going to happen while there is breath in this person.
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
No, it's not a shame. It's just because Jesus wants it that way. I heard Rush Limbaugh say so.
Would that be Rush and the other 'least of these' mentioned in the bible?
Good morning Anna Molly
No, it's not a shame. It's just because Jesus wants it that way. I heard Rush Limbaugh say so.
El Rushbo es muy gordo and an abomination. Jesus was the original liberal.
Is est quis is est
3. The Ryan Bill will increase the deficit over the next 10 years by about 5.5 Trillion dollars.
So, what you are telling me is, the Republicans are threatening to vote not to raise the debt ceiling, in order to force the Democrats to make deeper cuts to Medicare, but the Ryan budget itself, which the Republicans in the House passed, forces us to raise the debt ceiling or face default?
It's enough to make your head spin.
The worst perpetrator of hatred IN THE WORLD has to be Rush Limbaugh, but you're gaining on him, RVZ.
And now back to our regularly scheduled ranting:
Oh, how I love the handy convenience of cut and paste.
Thanks, RVZ
@ Beverly -- good morning.
@ drive-by -- yes, indeed, that would be. ;-)
Amy, I'm also wondering why Republicans are making noise about the debt ceiling when they already have endorsed a plan to do exactly that.
The big difference is that their plan would raise the debt ceiling in order to implement new, massive tax breaks for the wealthy and corporations. The Conservative plan would destroy the social safety net in order to enrich the already rich...while still increasing the debt.
Last night, Lawrence O'Donnell took on Rush Limbaugh's comments about Jesus using scripture to prove how very wrong Limbaugh and many conservatives like him are. Those who claim to be religious seem to have the least understanding of Jesus and the Bible. Lawrence O was pitch perfect. The Reverend Franklin Graham was on and Lawrence pointed out the hypocrisy and prejudice in Graham's comments as well. Bravo, Lawrence.
John B:
Right on target, that is exactly what is does and worse.
Not only does the Ryan budget require increasing the debt ceiling numerous times, the GOP willingly raised it seven (7) times during the Bush administration WITHOUT ever asking for budget cuts in the process. Hypocrisy much?
Agreed. He tricked Graham into exposing himself thoroughly and then delivered the mail.
It was brilliant.
Jody, I saw Lawrence last night on Limbaugh's question - how much would Jesus take? And when Lawrence asked that question, my first thought was - everything.
And what I can't stand is when people like Graham get on tv and decide who is Christian and who isn't. It's not up to him to decide.
It was an excellent segment and I hope Lawrence stays on this. Limbaugh is a con artist.
Of course it is hypocrisy and I'll call it that. It's same hypocrisy that President Obama is guilty of when he voted against raising the debt ceiling. It's the same hypocrisy that Republicans were guilty of during their spending binge 2003 - 2007. It's same hypocrisy that President Obama is guilty of now by bombing Libya.
www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/05/02/110502fa_fact_lizza
Read this article and then spin me a tale on the justification for bombing Libya.
ALL POLITICIANS ARE HYPOCRITES AND YOU SHOULD TRUST NONE OF THEM AND CALL THEM ALL OUT WHEN THEY LIE!
Does someone need a nap? RVZ here's a wake up call for you, you don't have to come here, post here. Why don't take your whiny hiney over to Fox to be with like minded dittobots?
Alan, in NJ
Some day, historians will call this The Age of Hypocrisy, I'm convinced of it.
But, if Republicans threaten to vote against raising the ceiling as a tactic to force Congress to cut spending, might it not be argued that Senator Obama's vote against raising it back in 2006 was meant to send a warning that the federal deficit was ballooning that was not heeded by Republicans? And, can we agree, that it was two unfunded wars, promoted by the Republicans, that really pushed us off track debt wise, not grandma and her heart condition.
RVZ says: "Blah,blah,blah,blah and blah, blah, blah.
This is the most accurate description of the republican presidential field that I have seen yet. You should not give this stuff away RVZ, you should be paid for this kind of political insight. Great post keep up the good -blah blah blah blah blah.
I'm afraid not. The wars may have been promoted by the Republicans but they were subject to majority votes by the Congress of the United States which was controlled by the Democratic Party at the time. One war was initially justified. I have yet to hear anybody claim we should not have invaded Afghanistan in 2001. I think we should now leave as there is no mission there any more. Iraq I was against then and now. I do agree that taxes should have raised to pay for these wars. Maybe if it hit people in the pocketbook they would not have supported Iraq for so long.
However, they are finite in they're spending. Medicare is not with trillions in unfunded liabilities as the Baby Boomers hit the system. Basically the system tips in deficit in 2013 and although there are nominal assets in the Trust Fund, just like SS they have already been spent.
Table III.A1.—Total Medicare Income, Expenditures, and Trust Fund Assets during Calendar Years 1970-2018
www.cms.gov/ReportsTrustFunds/downloads/tr2009.pdf
Pat, Boston, MA
It was an excellent segment and I hope Lawrence stays on this. Limbaugh is a con artist.
And a Big Fat LIAR.
I don't know if you remember Phoebe Snow.
Phoebe Snow, Who Sang 1975 Hit 'Poetry Man,' Dies
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=135733907
I loved her. Her voice was so pleasant-sounding and melodious. Listening to her gave me great peace of mind.
Talk to me some more
You don't have to go
You're the poetry man
You make things all right, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdXlwpiK8SI
Epiphany.
I just realized LouisJ is a Communist.
Not a democrat, but a flat-out red commie.
That's awesome.
So you are paid for your political insights, I thought so, I could tell by your posts. Were you a political science major at the University of Close Cover Before Striking.
Beverly, yes I remember Phoebe Snow very well. So sorry to hear of her passing. Poetry Man. Beautiful beautiful song.
teknishan
Epiphany.
I just realized LouisJ is a Communist.
Not a democrat, but a flat-out red commie.
Oh, Oh, Oh, you only see red when you type your sick delusions. That's horrifying; chum.
Do go somewhere to take care of that ; like rehab.
The Best reason to stay on the attack on this Ryan budget is to keep reminding the American People of what the Republicans are trying to pull off. Now, of course they are backing down because they are getting slammed by the people in their own party that don’t like it.
We need to keep hammering this message home so that these Republicans can pay dearly at the polls, and the people can them for there true colors.
JoAnnaSmith1
Others pols are taking on the leadersip roles for the country, making the hard and difficult choices, communicating the dire economic situation to the American people, and working hard for Americans future. The only thing Obama is playing is with himself.
It looks like you could use some rehab too.
Here's President Obama playing with the children at the Easter Egg Roll
http://blackwaterdog.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/bunny2.jpg?w=590&h=446
About those other pols if the President is so underder g of leadership why aren't they announcing their candidacies?
JoAnnaSmith1
About those other pols, if the President is so undeserving of leadership why aren't those other pols announcing their candidacies and bold plans; huh?
Alan in NJ
This is rich:
The wars may have been promoted by the Republicans but they were subject to majority votes by the Congress of the United States which was controlled by the Democratic Party at the time.
I was out on the streets of Portland, Me. protesting the invasion of Iraq. Where were you? Inside, calling your senator, pressuring him to vote to give President Bush the authority to invade?
You out there protesting the Libyan "kinetic military action", Amy?
By the way, don't bother calling your Senators or congressional representatives- Obama decided he did not need their permission to launch it.
It was ALL up to him.
Constitution? What Constitution?
It may be rich but it is true. No I didn't call either NJ senator as I suspect it was a waste of time. However, Corzine voted No and Toracelli voted Yes...both Democrats, both now gone. In Maine two yes votes from Collins and Snowe both of whom are still in the senate.
www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=2&vote=00237
I nominate Scott Walker for President. HE knows how to create jobs.
Way too easy. Just take credit for the jobs created by your predecessor:
http://wtaq.com/news/articles/2011/apr/25/report-gov-walker-counting-125-jobs-created-doyle-/
http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/noquarter/120582079.html
Ah, yes. Well, maybe Walker just didn't mean for it to be a "factual" statement.
Oh some day, I would love to see Walker get caught in an illegal payoff and spend some time in jail.
LoL Me, too. He'd look so good in stripes.
But I'm sure he has FAR too much integrity to ever let that happen. ;-)
That would be fun! His lawyer buddies can try out their DOMA chops, when Scott is "married" to the guy with the most cigarettes.
What I appreciate most is that Wisconsin journalists are NOT letting Walker get away with his lies. I really do think that come January, Walker will be recalled by middle class workers right and left who are tired of paying the bills for the rich and famous.
I hope so and I hope workers everywhere stand up for themselves and the man next to them whether they are democrats or republicans. This is not a republican verse democrat issue, Walker and others want to destroy collective bargaining rights for all workers.
What posting facts? What in the world are you thinking? Really, Anna stop this immediately you might infuriate the right wingnuts.
Well how about that journalist well, being journalists how refreshing!
Nice post!
Competence.
That's the buzzword that may well frame the debate in the emerging 2012 presidential campaign. Or in Obama's case, the variant 'incompetence' would be more apropos. Incompetence as in presiding over $4 gasoline, high unemployment, rising food prices and the spending of staggering amounts of money we don't have to jumpstart an economy that continues to sputter. Incompetence as in shutting down offshore oil production in the U.S. and instead supporting Brazil in their drilling. Incompetence as in not quite fulfilling his promises to close Gitmo and try KSM in New York. Incompetence as in managing an Afghan operation where over 100,000 troops are apparently not enough to prevent a jailbreak of 400 Taliban.
I could go on, but you get the picture. So can anyone say Jimmy Carter redux? For Dems, the parallels with that poster child of incompetent presidential leadership are unsettling. And the same stench of failure that Carter carries with him to this day is starting to enshroud Obama as well. Heck, a revival of the misery index can't be far behind.
All of which brings me to the field of Republican candidates. Conventional wisdom, at least the MSM version, is that this field is "weak." Ummm, excuse me but it's the PRESIDENT who's weak. And his weakness makes every Republican candidate stronger. Because each of these candidates shares a very compelling and innately appealing characteristic: they're not Obama. Obama duped us in 2008 by running as the hope and change anti-Bush. But now the worm has turned and being the anti-Obama in 2012 can be just as compelling.
So compelling that even a guy like Donald Trump is getting some traction. Most Dems and even many Republicans see Trump as a publicity seeking buffoon. But when Trump gets on his soapbox and makes the case that the Chinese have been eating our lunch and playing us for patsies, lots of folks nod their heads in agreement. And when Trump says he's done business with the Chinese and made millions of dollars on the deals, lots of folks long for the toughness and savvy required to pull that off. The contrast with Obama is absolutely striking.
And that's why the president is already in class warfare mode. He and his people know that on the merits, they cannot make a convincing case for why the American people should rehire him. So in typical leftist fashion they seek to deflect attention from the shortcomings of his leadership skills and reframe the debate as Obama protecting the little guy from all manner of evil giants. Unfortunately, a lot of those little guys still don't have jobs. So chances are the president's eloquent words will be seen for exactly what they are and always have been: empty rhetoric.
But for the folks who are still smitten with this president and just can't seem to break free from his adoring cult, eventually they will be presented with the classic question Reagan used to help beat Carter: are you better off now then you were four years ago? For most folks the answer to that question is a resounding no. And even though Obama will go on a riff about how bad a situation he inherited, that won't matter. Because a basic truism in politics is once you're in the mode of explaining, then you're losing. The bottom line that needs no explanation is that Obama was hired to fix the problem -- and he has failed. End of story.
Competence.
Hey Mr. Bill - were you humming 'Don't Stop Believing' to yourself, while you concocted this fantasy?
Good luck with THAT!
Redistribution of wealth. Like 'class warefare', seems we’ve heard this term quite a bit lately.
I was thinking about it the other day, and it reminded me of the insurance industry, or banks and other financial institutions in the 70’s and 80’s and beyond.
Here’s the scenario: You would have 3 companies, say- Company A, Company B and Company C. Each one employed 1,000 employees. Company A and B find out that by merging, they can lop off 200 ‘redundant’ jobs. Jobs that are common to each company, but can be consolidated into one. The new company employs 1,800 people. Then, Company C finds out it can merge with Company AB, and lay off another 150 people.
Company ABC now employs 2,650 people.
Now, 350 people are out of work. Their paychecks now go to someone else. CEO’s, stockholders- somebody. We do know the people left doing the work that the laid off people were doing are not getting double their salaries now. (oh, and keep in mind the savings are not going to the consumer, either. Not with competition drying up a little more with each merger!)
Now- has ‘redistribution of wealth’ taken place?
Is this what the righties mean, when they keep yammering about ‘redistribution of wealth’? Next time you hear one of ‘em crying about it, think of this little scenario. Hell, you may have even been a victim of it yourself over the years. Will you ever hear this viewpoint on Fox or any of the other ‘liberal media’? Highly unlikely.
This is Obama's only chance, to fool the low information voters once again. To divide the country with class-warfare, to make The People angry at the mythical, faceless, Giant Corporations that are out to get them (at least according to Obama).
And much of that unemployment is in the very community that supports him nearly 100%, the African-America community, where unemployment stands at over 15%.
Source: http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2011-04-26-Obamas-broken-promise-to-help-blacks.htm?loc=interstitialskip
Wrong AGAIN there darling!
The stuck on stupid crowd VOTES primarily Republican and against their own best interests every time!
You wouldn't happen to be fibbin again there are ya?
It is one of your nastier habits...
I take issue with just one thing in your post, Bill.
Even Jimmy Carter could not so wildly overspend that S & P downgraded the outlook on our debt.
Stagflation? Check.
Chaos in the Middle East? Well, um, even Carter did not screw that up- when there were food shortages, he knew what the role of the Agriculture Department was- we increased wheat and corn production, and, by the way, shipped a LOT of wheat to the Soviet Union. There were those who criticized the move, believing that food riots would hasten their demise. I, by the way, was not one of them. Starving people in order to foment revolution is not high on my list of good things to do.
Evidently, it is on Obama's- otherwise, he would have done something when he was warned last year that weather and war were contributing to food shortages.
I guess it is all part of being a "consequentionalist". You know, Leading From Behind.
Boy, have they lowered the bar. Now, we have a redefinition of loser in the vernacular.
Re-distribution of wealth, from a political perspective, is where the government takes the money from the producers, and gives it to the non-producers.
The analogy of a business/corporation is doing the same just falls flat on its collective face. Businesses are interested in providing a product and/or service in a manner that is faster/cheaper/better than it's competition. And by doing so, they gain market share and generate profits for their owners, provide jobs for their employees, and products/services of a high quality and at a low price for their customers.
I hope that clears things up.
So why are we taking money from the American working class, those who actually DO the production, and giving it to those who hold the capital?
We're back to the Ayn Rand view that the only people of worth are those of the highest net worth, and the rest of us are moochers. It falls apart immediately when one asks; does the work YOU do have worth? Does the work your neighbor does have worth?
In the Rand-addled brains of Conservative leaders the answer is no. You have no worth. Your neighbor has no worth. Only the incredibly wealthy and well-connected who get invited to the Koch's strategy sessions have worth. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/28/koch-weekend-meeting-fires-up-debate-over-politics-influence/
nojonobo
Repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it true. As this chart showed, almost all of the deficit is caused by Bush's irresponsible tax cuts, the cost of his bungled wars, and the economic downturn caused by Bush's incompetent oversight of the US economy that resulted in the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression.
Indeed. This was the agenda.
http://images2.americanprogressaction.org/ThinkProgress/secretkochmeeting.pdf
It's truly a work of art. And VERY instructive. One thing out of many that you learn from this is that some of Scott Walker's biggest supporters were at the last meeting like this one. What a surprise.
How convenient, the conservative posters continue to ignore the GOP's doubling of the national debt by President George W. Bush and his GOP controlled House and Senate and blame it on President Obama. Again, where was the outrage by conservatives about the deficit and the debt from 2001 through 2008? Where were the Tea Party rallies complaining about big government spending? Where were they? They were home drinking tea because deficit and debt spending is fine when it is done by republicans and, by the way, it is republicans who have been the deficit and debt drivers since Reagan started it--"deficits don't matter."
Reagan, my hero, for making me realize that "fiscal responsibility" was not the GOP's cup of Tea. Facts are facts and spin makes you dizzy.
Houston, what lie? Did S & P not downgrade the outlook? I imagined it?
Obama added four trillion dollars to the debt in just two years. It took Bush eight to add five, and I was against HIS spending.
Repeat the lie? You liberals seem to think that your version of "truth"- that Obama is all knowing, all powerful, all good, trumps reality every time.
Newsflash- that worked in the campaign because you sold people what they wanted to believe about him. Now that he has a record, no more Zelig for him. Nope.
Only the liberals still see a Messiah. The rest of us, the majority, see an inept failure.
Well, except for those few who see a master manipulator. I am not one of them - I do not think he has the brains or imagination to have wrought this situation deliberately.
At least the latest campaign slogan is honest. Lead From Behind is a new way of saying loser- as in. He who comes in last.
Drive-by: You forgot to add the next step. Next Corp ABC ships the jobs overseas under the veil of "market forces" for a 2/3rds reduction in employement costs. Next they raid the original retirement plan funds and turn the remaining pennies over to the government saying "this is your baby now". And the re-distribution is again given to the corporate CEOs and stockholders.
JoAnna - Most large businesses today are NOT interested in providing a product or service faster/better/cheaper than their competition. They ARE interested in making money for their top staff and shareholders - as evidenced by the insurance, pharma, and banking industries. The product is simply a by-product or the excuse. And from a political perspective, one of the goals of re-distribution of wealth is to get those corporations to actually pay their fare share of taxes.
JoAnnaSmith1
Joanna you don't have to give us a link to prove your point, if your saying its at 15% honey your off another 10%. Black unemployment is always at or near 15% during good times, i guess your trying to insinuate that blacks are the low information voters?
Why Joanna, because you have run out of other talking points. or is it because your trying to again insinuate that black are stupid to support a President who is black and unemployment among his race is higher than the national average?
Yes we (blacks) support the president, we supported Clinton, 20% supported Bush (2001) Carter, Johnson, Eisenhower, Truman and Roosevelt. the black support for Obama is No Different than these other presidents, Joanna the percentage difference between Clinton and Obama is 5%. black support for Clinton was 92% for Obama its about 97%.
so i guess i see your true Colors Joanna, Once your Regular talking points get Old, then you move to new ones like this pandering craps to get new votes.
If your saying Blacks are low information for supporting Obama like we do, then Whites are NO information voters for Supporting Bush and his whole screwed up Mind that got us here.
Just to let you know, since Obama took office Black unemployment has gone down yes to 15% but from 20% when Bush left office.
Have a nice day.
JoAnnaSmith1
Re-distribution of wealth, from a political perspective, is where the government takes the money from the producers, and gives it to the non-producers.
the only Re-distribution of wealth i have seen in the last 10 years, is the producers, taking more from the Working producers to line there fat Pockets, Joanna your arguement is Full of Sh*t, given the profit projections coming out this week,
Head line on the business section of MSN,
Stocks move higher amid strong earnings .
I did not see the head line to say, Middle classes wages are going up. Did We!!!!
Joanna you must stop saying the Re-distribution of wealth as long as the headlines are saying different.
Unemployment for AA's in Jan/2008 was 7%. It's more than doubled since that time.
Source: http://econpers.wordpress.com/2009/01/11/african-american-unemployment-highest-since-1993/
Have a great day!
JoAnnaSmith1
Unemployment for AA's in Jan/2008 was 7%. It's more than doubled since that time.
Joanna your crazy,
African American Unemployment in December 2008 Highest Since 1993
Posted by Hopeton on January 11, 2009
By Hopeton Hay
African American males unemployment reached 13.4 percent in December of 2008, its highest level since March of 1993 according to data released by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS). Since the recession began in December 2007, unemployment for African American males has risen at a much faster rate than African American females, white males and white males. It has risen 5.3 percentage points since December 2007. During the same time period unemployment has risen2.6percentage points for white males, 1.9 percentage points for African American females, and 1.6 percentage points for white females as exhibited in the chart below.
Overall African American unemployment in December 2008 was 11.9 percent, the highest since April 1994. The number of African American unemployed increased by 117,000 from November 2008 to 2, 122,000 in December 2008.
Overall unemployment for the U.S. was at 7.2 percent in December 2008, the highest level seen since January 1993.
i had to past this link to show how Dumb Joanna really is!!!!! she got overall unemployment mixed up with black unemployment, for a minute the brothers thought they dreaming.
I'd like to credit whoever it is (sorry, can't remember whom) said Conservatives never let a good crisis go to waste.
Conservatives within the GOPTP created a debt crisis through their determination to shut down the government and/or fail to raise the debt ceiling, following years of exploding deficits caused by tax breaks for the wealthy. Now that the crisis Republicans created is coming to a head they're whining about S&P changing the debt rating.
If they didn't want to endanger the credit rating of the United States they shouldn't have played brinkmanship with the economy.
Feisty -
Who is John Galt?
When was the government shut down again? And President Obama, as a Senator back in 2006, voted no on the raising of the debt ceiling. If we all remember correctly, Obama is not part of the GOP.
So what do you think John, was Obama endangering the credit rating of the United States with that vote of his in 2006?
That spin is the lamest I have have ever seen, John. More like a wobble.
I guess that is all you have left when you come in last, er, I mean, Lead From Behind.
JoAnnaSmith1
When was the government shut down again? And President Obama, as a Senator back in 2006, voted no on the raising of the debt ceiling. If we all remember correctly, Obama is not part of the GOP.
So what do you think John, was Obama endangering the credit rating of the United States with that vote of his in 2006?
No his vote in 06 was politics, the GOP had enough votes to raise the ceiling for the 5th or 6th time since Bush was president. the total number of times the debt ceiling was raised was 6 times from 2001 to the end of 2008.
Please tell me Joanna considering that blacks are always the first to go when lay off is coming how the hell did you get overall unemployment mixed up with black unemployment.
For some folks "short memory" is almost a laughable term.
http://politicalirony.com/2011/04/10/for-this-they-threatened-to-shut-down-the-government/
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/22/us-usa-budget-idUSTRE71G6CQ20110222
Of course doing it just once wasn't enough, they want "another bite at the apple."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42536397/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/
There you have it, Republicans endangering not only the economy but the currency of the United States because their ideological games are more important than the nation.
I stand by my statement, S&P responded to Republican political brinksmanship.
Well look at that - this is the second time in less than a week that the serial liar has been trapped in her own snare! LMAO!
You might want to take a break there JS1 - between this and your outright plagiarism yesterday, you're losing you 'magic' touch there old girl!
Keep it up and you'll soon be as inept as the NJ ding bat!
never let a good crisis go to waste.
____________________________________________
That was the often stated philosophy of former WH Chief of Staff Rahm Emmanuel, and he was talking about himself and Democrats, not conservatives.
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL
You might want to take a break there JS1 - between this and your outright plagiarism yesterday, you're losing you 'magic' touch there old girl!
No Feisty she is not loosing her Magic Touch, she is loosing the skill of reading what there, instead of what she want to see.
first she says that 15% unemployment with blacks, then she says black unemployment was 7% when bush left office to try and make the point that obama can't even keep his own working, but the artical said that when bush left office it was at 13.4% then she was looking for a gottua sentence and got overall mixed up with black.
As Archie would say, BING BAT!!!!!
nojonobo
You know very well I wasn't referring to S&P. I was referring to your false claim that the deficit is somehow Obama's fault, and helpfully provided the chart showing the sources of the budget deficit that proves you were lying. According to one letter writer to the Houston Chronicle today, the S&P report even said that deep budget cuts under present conditions would hurt the economic recovery, which is apparently what Republicans want.
You're still lying. Obama added scarcely anything to the projected deficits in comparison to the Republicans' "contributions".
Now you're lying about liberals. I've never heard anyone assert that Obama was all knowing, blah blah blah. Liberals criticize the president all the time. Oh, well, I guess at least your lying about someone other than the president is a bit of a change.
teknishan
Oh! Oh! I can answer that: John Galt was a fictional character in a bad novel.
Why are the Republicans so determined to endanger the nation to meet their political aims?
Woops. I forgot to include the link to the chart showing that nearly all of the deficit is due to Bush and Republicans:
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/263031/DEBT-DRIVERS.jpg
I keep a link to this handy so I can post it every time I see some wingnut lying about how Obama is to blame for the deficit.
Houston, I do not know why I bother to respond to you- you have your own version of the truth, and you stick with it.
So be it. Know, though, that you are in a dwindling minority. People are fed up with Hope, and are looking for a change.
That is why Obama and the liberals are now relegated to Leading From Behind. In case you never ran track or cross country, that is called losing by everyone else.
The Huffpo?!? What is the matter, did not Media Matters have a chart?
I love liberals. At least they leave yup laughing as they destroy the country.
nojonobo:
Another knee-jerk dishonest tactic you and other wingnuts used is to attack the credibility of a source without providing any evidence that the source is not credible. But the Huffington Post is not even the source of the chart; it's from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, as the graph is clearly labeled had you actually looked at it.
The CBPP is a moderately left-of-center ortanization that's pretty credible, judging by the funding sources on their Wiki page:
But regardless of that, you can provide nothing to back up your lie that the budget deficit is Obama's fault because it's not true and you know it.
it's fine, Houston, you keep using left wing sources to back up your talking points, repeating your Hope for Change mantra, while the rest of us deal with the consequences of the disastrous Obama presidency.
Remember, you are now Leading From Behind- Obamaspeak for losing.
As the polls bear out.
I do, however, find it interesting that, given his deep belief that there is nothing he, as president, can do about any problem, (which is supported by his followers), that he wanted the job in the first place.
Then again, looking at the way he has conducted his presidency, it was probably for the perks.
Go easy on her, Houston...she can't help that the facts have a Liberal bias.
Please, John B, stop now.
I am laughing so hard, my stomach hurts!
John Birch Society! Media Matters! Left wing "facts"!
Good lord, you people should do stand up!
Ever since you started Leading From Behind, we have gone from the ridiculous to the ludicrous!
And yet no attempt to even TRY to refute anything that's been said.
Nothing you say changes the fact that most of us live in the reality-based community.
Liberals destroying the country? The united states was attacked under George Bush's watch not Obama's, the stock market crashed under Bush's watch not Obama's. George Bush attacked Iraq and played right into Bin Laden's hand. Hundreds of thousands of jobs a month were lost under Bush's watch. GW was handed a surplus to which he said we collected to much taxes so I will give it away he did not pay down the debt or secure the money for other needs, then ran the largest deficit the country had ever seen since your hero Reagan. Since 1982 the only time we had a balanced budget, a budget surplus, and working people were gaining income was under the Clinton democratic administration. I could go on and on and you can say what you want, think what you want, but the facts are still the facts. You will now yell when will I stop blaming Bush, well when do you stop blaming John Wilkes Booth. The answer is never, he killed Lincoln and nothing will ever change that fact. The major damage to this country was a done deal before Obama took office. If by the country you really mean the republican status quo, then by all means I hope he destroys the country. I would also stop insulting the president every chance you get, it is just going to make republicans feel worse when they get their heads handed to them again by an "unqualified, Muslim, community organizer" Give the man some credit once in while then you won't feel so bad when he wins the election.
Let's voteÂ
Let's Dance! ;o)
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL
Good morning GF
Let's Dance! ;o)
You obviously liked Donald Trump's music.
The trumpet player
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OqazLk5F4Zs/TaYGJ7vNL2I/AAAAAAAAABY/42EQ8P7r0xw/s1600/blog.bmp
It is enough noise to make a blind one see and a lame man dance.
6 more years President Obama rocks.
The GOP/ T-Bagger Party persists on showcasing their jokes, aka representatives and nominees, hence the 2012 election will be another easy sweep for President Obama; end of story.
Obama/Biden 2012
I plan to best news I've seen all day Ron Paul 2012!
Joe in Albany
I was traveling yesterday and couldn’t comment on the SC decision to not hear the challenge to the constitutionality of ClunkerCare on an expedited basis.
Who cares? I for one don't. I'm only interested in positive notes.
I'm only interested in positive notes.
_______________________________________________
Bev, I'm pretty positive the SC is going to find ClunkerCare unconstitutional.
LOL!!!
Who knows, maybe they will find Gov. Snyder and Walker unconstitutional as well.
Haley doesn't have enough fire to fill his belly, that and the polls show that he is dead on arrival. He might be able to beat Qaddafi if he decides to run for the republican nomination.
2012 Speculation. It seems Barbour's lack of "fire in the belly" was more likely a lack of enthusiasm by voters. Mitch Daniels is not likely to run simply because he was one of the architects of the massive debt Bush 43 created--trickle down did not work for Reagan and it did not work for Bush; one would hope the media would ask tough questions. I doubt Palin, Huckabee and Trump will run. If Trump does run, he has more baggage than Newt Gingrich and the media enjoys discussing baggage plus he is a total flip flopper depending on his political whims of the day. Unfortunately, Romney's religion (in this modern evangelical frenzied right wing) will again be his demise along with Romney care and his flip flopping on the social issues. Pawlenty has the least baggage but like Barbour the voters are not enthusiastic. Iowa's GOP/TP has become increasingly far right and Michelle Bachmann's message plus her enthusiasm will sound good to them. Ron Paul just might be the dark horse, the one whose message on government, the military, taxes rings the bell of conservatives plus Paul voted against the Ryan plan. With so much talk about deficit and debt, Ron Paul's libertarian message may be the one that gets conservative GOP/TP excited.
yep Jody, when I read that Dr. Paul was thinking about running today I actually jumped out of my seat and did a happy dance! I've loved him since even before I moved to Texas almost 12 years ago.
The Ryan Bill ends Medicare as we know it and replaces it with private sector Death Panels.
The rising gas prices are not getting the same media attention that they did a few years ago. But at some point they will....and according to a study by Real Clear Politics, high gas prices are more correlated to a President's approval rating than the unemployment rate (-.53 to -.14 for you stat gurus out there). My guess would be because almost everyone is affected by high gas prices, while only a percentage are affected by unemployment. It will be interesting to see if this becomes a bigger issue in the upcoming Presidential race.
My feelings are that like unemployment, there is only so much a President can do about the price of gasoline. BUT...I don't think the public cares...they blame the President for things that happen on his watch. We certainly saw this the last time gas prices increased like this under President Bush. The question is...how long will they stay high like this? If they are still this high or higher in the summer of 2012, this could be a major problem for President Obama's re-election campaign.
Just my $0.02.
Have a good one all!! :-)
Frank:
I agree there is only so much "Our President" or ANY President can do. But, as you say, he/she will take the heat whether is is warranted or not.
How was your trip??
I dunno, Frank - if rising gas prices are going to affect the President's ratings, don't you think it is a bit EARLY to raise prices NOW? You would think that given the notoriously short memory of the electorate, you would hold off raising prices until the beginning of the election 'season' so that the rising prices are fresh in the minds of the voters?
I am just sayin'.
Pietro, Columbus, Ohio
That would be very true, assuming that speculators are driving up prices deliberately in order to hurt the president politically (a possibility I've considered). But you're right, that conspiracy theory doesn't work because they should have held off on price hikes for another year to really impact the 2012 election. Maybe that's the good thing about being motivated by greed: the greed heads just can't resist the opportunity to get their hot little hands on other people's money.
If the prices stay over $4.00 a gallon until then well, I would think that we are all in trouble. The economy would have surely tanked (no pun intended) by then.
I think this round of speculative profit-taking will end soon. The pattern is to wait until it reaches a crescendo with lots of press coverage, threats of government action and the like. Then the speculators run with their ill-gotten gains and prices return to a level more in tune with supply and demand.
What about inflation? That's going to hurt, I have already notice it at our market. For a head of lettuce $1.99.
The smart Republicans aren't going to run against Obama in 2012. The Republican party is a mess. Americans don't like losers and the Republican nominee will be tainted as such in 2012.
The smart Republicans will wait until 2016. It would be easy to pick off Joe Biden, but I expect Obama to replace Biden after the election.
I agree with your comments about 2012; it's tough to beat an encumbent. I don't think President Obama will replace VP Joe Biden, not going to happen. If Presidents used the next election as the reason to select a VP, why didn't Bush dump Cheney after 2004? Few vice presidents actually win the presidential election.
or have much of an effect on it either. Dan Quayle anyone?
Not stating anything fantastical by way of predictions, just a few musings since the thread mentioned 2012 and 2016. In 2012 Obama may still win but everything is still dependent on the economy and dependent on results. In know, "Duh". I remember 1 1/2 years ago an interviewer asked Obama what he would grade himself and how he should be judged. Obama immodestly gave himself a B+ and said, very courageously I must add, that people should judge him by his results. If after his first term people didn't see results he would not deserve to be re-elected. Truthful but not politically savvy.
All incumbents have the bully pulpit and certain advantages especially as President, however, with those advantages comes a record to defend. With sympathies to the left posters, while framing his arguement for re election Obama can not keep pointing back to what others did before him. Sure it can allow a narrative to be formed on how you came to a place but it doesn't do a lot to solve the problems. His job and it is a hard one is to lead and help provide answers and solutions to problems, irregardless of the other side.
In my opinion the GOP field is still weak, still made up of has beens and never were contenders. Interestingly Ron Paul's announcement that he is running threw off my prediction for a 2012 dark horse. With Paul senior in, Rand Paul will not run in 2012. He will wait for 2016. Although the GOP candidates are weak, as Obama found in his run it is easy to criticize the incumbent. Time will tell if their attacks on him will bounce them in the polls.
On another note, if Obama does win re-election I wonder who would the democrats run in 2016. After the media proclaimed "transformational" politician is gone who could take up the mantle? Its a long way off but, sans Hillary Clinton I see no one in 2016. My prediction, after Obama wins relection in 2012 and steps down in Jan 2017 a GOP president elect will be sworn in. As is the case in the recent past the GOP will dominate the presidency for several cycles. It appears as if Democrats only get one chance to correct the actions of the GOP, but republicans seem to get the opportunity over and over again. Perhaps when my middle school child has grown up and has a family another democrat will be elected president.
Did I mention I'm not an optimist regarding politics?
Dear Folks Thinking About Running For President:
Please take the time to formulate a reality based plan to address the many problems we are facing. We do not need anyone else to tell us how absolutely horrible President Obama is . . . I think that Fox "News", talk radio and John Boehner are filling that role well.
Say what you will about Candidate Obama, but he had a plan. He articulated that plan and once elected, he implemented that plan.
If you don't have a plan, please don't blow millions of dollars on a lot of hot air and talking points designed to tell us all how great you are. If all you are looking for is an ego boost, get yourself a talk show.
America thanks you in advance.
P.S. Donald Trump is a chump . . . and his kids are kind of creepy . . . how do I know? I watch his show every Sunday! lol
P.S.S. Good job Anderson Cooper and CNN for heading down to Hawaii to shine a light on the egomanical sack of contradictions that is birtherism/Donald Trump . . . however it is deeply sad that it is/was required.
I don't know, Nash---I like Ivanka---I'm a Celebrity Apprentice watcher as well.
I agree about candidates having a plan----while I am supporting President Obama, I think the nation as a whole would benefit from an honest debate of the issues facing us and it is always good to evaluate alternative solutions put forth in good faith.
I don't understand why it is not sufficient for the Republicans to say that they disagree with the President. Why he must be attacked for incorrect birtherism and religion issues is beyond me.
Good to see you Steeler fan . . . I will agree that Ivanka seems the least creepy . . . lol . . . but she was still raised in an alternate reality by a meglomaniac and has that judgmental little Trumpy mouth . . . lol . . . am I being shallow? :o)
(I acknowledge that I don't actually know them and they are probably all lovely folks . . . but still I would like to see their long form birth certificates and signed affidavits from folks who knew them growing up . . . and I'd like to know if they were actually qualified to attend the colleges that got into . . . just sayin! ;o)
Nashville: What a wonderful post. The GOP continues to tell us what he's doing wrong. Like they have a clue.
Good point, Nashville. Haven't heard any serious plans from the party of no yet--just the usual tax cuts for the rich and big business creates jobs, government is bad, and our President can't possibly be a US citizen.
Actually, I think Donald Trump is creepy!
Pat and Jody:
Thanks for adding your perspectives . . . good to hear from you both.
Deleted. (Put a reply in the wrong thread.)
I used to be a Celebrity Apprentice watcher. However, no more since the crazy talk started.
Trump knows that President Obama was born in the United States and he is just playing to the birther racists, who no matter what proof is placed in front of them will go along with the person who backs their crazy talk.
These birther racists’ types will believe anything bad said about the President and Trump knows this fact and he is playing on their mob mentally.
Same here Job! - I tuned out as soon as the Chump started with the birther cr@p!
Plus, 'The Borgia's' on Showtime is MUCH more fascinating! ;o)
FR:
Better late than never, I suppose, to acknowledge something that's been going on for at least a week. It would have been better still to mention that Paul Ryan himself was one of those Republicans taking the heat from his constituents about his plan to repeal Medicare and replace it with a cruddy voucher.
Another point that goes unmentioned is that the GOP is determined to repeal the health care reform legislation which guarantees that private insurance cannot cancel people's insurance. The elderly are less healthy and more likely to need more frequent and costly health care and if the GOP succeeds, the elderly will be without any guaranteed health care. The real death panels are the GOP's version of health care for the elderly.
What are you guys drinking today? lots of great posts. Must be because its my birthday.
PSC:
Happy Birthday my friend.
Let me be the first to wish you a happy Birthday Patrick!
Okay, make that second - Navy beat me to it! ;op
Speaking of drinks - the first round is on me Friday over @ the Dew Drop Inn!
Let's bend an elbow in your honor! ;o)
Hope you have a splendid birthday Patrick! :o)
Happy Birthday, Patrick----and many more. Hope you have a great day. I'll bring a cake on Friday so you can blow out the candles!
Hey Patrick, Happy Birthday!!!
On this date in history - April 26
1607: Colonists land at Cape Henry, VA. They would in a few weeks go on to found Jamestown.
1865: John Wilkes booth was shot and killed.
1945: Petain, head of the Vichy Government in France during WWII, was arrested.
Happy Birthday Patrick SLC. Amazing that a liberal still exists in the state. Having been born/raised there, I had to move my liberal butt to a place where my vote actually counted for something. Like I always say, SLC, a great place to be "FROM".
Happy Birthday, Patrick Salt Lake City! And best wishes for many more, too. Calls for a Friday celebration at the Dew Drop.
Happy Birthday Patrick!
Patrick Salt Lake City
What are you guys drinking today? lots of great posts. Must be because its my birthday.
Happy Birthday Patrick
No wonder the sun is beginning to shine on this dreary morning.
Many more happy returns
"Put another candle on your birthday cake, your birthday cake. Put another candle on your birthday cake your another year old today!"
Happy Birthday Patrick!
Happy Birthday, Patrick.
There are two kinds of Republican candidates: the kooks like Michele Bachman and those who pander to the kooks, like the notorious serial flip-floppers Mitt Romney and Tim Pawlenty. Donald Trump seems to be in a class by himself, though. It's hard to tell whether he's really a kook or is just pandering to the kooks by pretending to be one of their own.
In any case, I expect that the Republicans will elect someone who panders to the kooks but is not particularly kooky himself, so that the media will praise them for how "serious" they are. Of course, nobody would consider Romney serious except in contrast to the profoundly kooky candidates, so the kooks do provide a service of sorts to the Republican Party by making the rest of the miserable crowd appear sane in comparison.
Amen! :o)
Well said, Houston!
Until you budget cutters offer up your parents and grandparents bennies for cuts its just drivel falling from your lips...todays deficits are because we spend too much on war and granny...welfare, fraud and waste should be gone through but get real about the real budget busters for chrissakes...
Kill two birds with one stone, send the grannys and grampys off to war.
The united states healthcare system should be walled off from so-called "private" corporate interests, the healthcare system should be focused on medicine and the well being of its patients, wall street has plenty of other vehicles it can use to screw Americans out of their money, the healthcare system should not be one of them. It's time America adopted a healthcare system like some of the civilized countries on this planet have, one where maximizing quality of care is the core objective, leave the dishonest faux free market bullsh!t to pillage and rape other sectors of our crumbling society, every citizen should receive adequate healthcare regardless of their socioeconomic status.
Agree, w bush. When Blue Cross was established, it was a nonprofit insurance company--those days are long gone. Now 20% or more of our premiums pays for CEO salaries and shareholder profits; decisions to authorize or deny treatments are made based on cost not life. I've posted often that health care traded on Wall Street is not health care, it is profits at the expense of actual medical care. Why people believe this is good is beyond me.
No question. When deregulation blurred the line between "mutual" companies and "for profit" companies it produced a sea change in the industry. Companies are now in a lather because the medical loss ratio, once 97%, can't go any lower than 81% thanks to Affordable Care. A 19% gross profit ratio PLUS the ability to make more money investing the shareholders premiums is highway robbery in an economy where most businesses would be happy to make 5%.
Happy Birthday Patrick. Hope you have a great day.
"Give peace(time) a chance: Meanwhile, Romney should be glad that Barbour made news yesterday, because his blunder -- mistakenly saying that Obama has been engaged in “one of the biggest PEACETIME spending binges in American history."
Is MSNBC the fact checking proofreaders for the democratic party? C'mon, how nitpicky is that? We know what he meant, during the world wars govt spending was understandably thru the roof .
Obama's speeches are full of misstatements and questionable assertions , but MSNBC wont look for them or highlight them!
And in the aftermath of the Bush Recession, the worst economic disaster since the Great Depression, it's also understandable that the budget deficits have surged, after they had already been out of control since Bush decided to end Bill Clinton's "out of control" budget SURPLUSES. And yes, the Repubs back in '99 and 2000 were complaining about out-of-control surpluses.
Houston, I had forgotten all about that, but here it is from 1998;
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/budget/stories/052798.htm
John,
You've got to give the Republicans credit for one thing: They sure solved the problem of out-of-control surpluses in a hurry once Bush got into office.
BTW, John: I'm going to keep a link to the Washington Post article you found to add to my collection of stupid but revealing Republican comments. I consider "out-of-control surpluses" right up there with the more recent "not intended to be a factual statement." Try as they might, the Republicans just can't improve on their oldies.
Oh, please do! Can you imagine the "blooper reel" that could be made with all those comments? Just one "Macaca moment" after another.
Redistribution of wealth, socialism and Marxism are Reublican terms...politcial speak...like Obamacare to make us afraid of a program they want to keep and the Dem"s want to change. For example, repealing the Bush tax cuts and making the richest 1% of Amereicans pay 3% more taxes will bring in about 14 trillion dollars to the treasury. The GOP calls it a redistribution of wealth. It's not. It's an adjustment to the greatest movement of wealth this country has ever seen. From 1980 to 2005, over 80% of the wealth of this country was systematically transferred to the top 1% of Americans through reductions to the margingal tax rates. Called Trickle Down Economics at first but has taken on various names since introduced by Regan. We need to correct this intentional in balance and move money back to the majority of peope who generate it, the middle class. The GOP makes it sound like this is a bad thing. It's a BIG LIE and don't be fooled by it.
Ira please keep posting. Your posts are well-written, thought-provoking, and quite reasonable in their approach. Count me as a fan.
Thx very much. Well at least one person is reading them!
Ira-- You can't tell the Republicans the truth. They don't want to hear it. It makes their heads explode.
IRA, I have a tough time believing that a 3% increase on the top 1% will bring in 14 trillion. When the Obama tax cuts for the rich were passed last year, the loss in revenue number used was 70 billion a year or 700 billion over 10 years. And that 3% increase was for the top 2%. How did 70 billion turn into 14 trillion?
Rocco-2976776..
Ask the Office of Management and Budget as well as the most reputable economists in this country. The GOP is not refutung the numbers, just refusing to act on the facts.
I love all the attention given to Health-care plans and reforms and repeals...it's extremely delightful; especially when the key (windspring) to controlling medical costs has nothing to do with them. It really centered on the American People and how we treat each other.
In order to reign-in the medical costs Congress should be addressing ways to reduce vehicle crashes, divorce, unpaid health-care costs, obesity, and the grand daddy of them all: Violence and Abuse. Just this short list equals nearly $1 TRILLION dollars in annual government spending. This figure does not include other federal, state, and local government spending.
I for one would rather have Congress appropriate spending for an education program to address Violence and Abuse for a few hundred million dollars than to continue the addition of between 17% and 37.5% to the annual Medicare and Medicaid programs. This really is a sad reflection of the American People.
This clearly points out the fact our Health-care cost challenges are NOT about money; it's about us.
The Governor of Mississippi a top tier candidate? That statement speaks volumes. If that is top tier Republicans are in awful shape.
Really? Really?? Why would anyone with half a brain want to have to deal with the Washington B.S. Nothing gets done other than "Let's make a deal" to make money for our election donors.
Two general observations: liberals tracking town hall meetings is pointless - how about publicizing the times and locations and offering free rides. The GOP isn't stupid enough to repeat the Dems disaster of the summer of '09. While I disapprove of how the Michigan governor is carrying out his emergency powers, please get through your heads that the US Constitution only recognized states - not towns, counties, etc. These are just creatures of a state. We all know of cities in our states that long ago lost their usefulness and became just black holes. As heartless as it sounds, there are towns that would have been better off being bulldozed. The residents have no opportunities. The governor has instead used this as an excuse to displace workers, cut their pay, but given them no alternative. It's like sending in the Vikings to a poor town, burning their houses and their crops, and then saying you had poor houses and poor crops so why are you complaining. It's not the town people's fault, the state could have come in at any time. In many situations they can't just up and move, even though they should (like from Flint or Detroit). Build Section 8 in Auburn Hills and they will come.
Not feeling very gabby this morning like some of the more loquacious DEMS and LIBBERS who load up these blogs with boiler plate "Magna Carter" sized posts, with plagerized comments and/or DNC generated documents so.............I will get right to the point........... STICK A FORK IN HIM.............BECAUSE "UNDERDOG" OBAMA IS DONE!!!........PERIOD!!!.....Have a nice day!
alwaysfaithfull...
Why don't you load up a boiler plate blog with a Magna Carta sized post and plagerized comments and back up a single word of the inane, fictional crap you write with one single fact.
There are lots of folks here who would love to responf to your "facts".
one thing the right is in short supply of......facts. But, who needs facts when you have "truthiness"