The "win" is if the people of that country get what they want. Not what we Americans want. "Helping them get there" is what Obama's doctrine is. He realizes we are not in a win or no win situation. We just want Democracy to spread and dictatorships to decrease. Unlike Bush and Cheney who just wanted control of oil at any cost including killing our own children who go to war for our sakes.

"Nonetheless, Obama may be moving toward something resembling a doctrine."

I guess it will be called the "Obama Doctrine", which is a 3 step process;

1 - Ignore the problem and hope it goes away.

2 - Stall long enough that someone else (like France) takes care of it, and when all else fails;

3 - Blame Bush.

lol

Humm, the MSM might want to reference the White House before jumping to conclusions.

Well, lets see what Obama the "'consequentialist" has done in Libya. First he ignored the problem, next came the "Qaddafi must go!" nonsense, after that the UN passed a resolution that said intervention could be done on "humanitarian" grounds so Obama invaded, but not on the ground, well except for those types that were needed to guide the bombers to their targets. Next came another round of "Gaddafi must go!!", followed by the humanitarian bombing of Qaddafi's compound. After this Obama said it wasn't his problem anymore and so he left it up to others to finish cleaning up his mess, and that was followed by more humanitarian bombings to try and kill Gaddafi. Finally, Obama, the 'consequentialist', went to campaign and fund raise, and didn't mention one word about his war in Libya.

Obama has created a quagmire in Libya. The liberals can't even blame the Koch brothers or their new flavor of the week, Ayn Rand for this mess.

For instance Drive By - which of the many points raised by JAS1 is incorrect?

Drive By, I wonder: do you find Bev.'s position on Obama to be equally "unbelievable" and if not why not?

And in your estimation DBO, how is Libya going? We getting on money's worth?

Look Buzz! Poor little JS1 has her very own 'groupie'! lmao!

DBO.... why don't you try contributing SOMETHING of value to the conversation instead of 'ragging' on JAS1?

SOB - why don't you practice what you preach!

You bring so much to the conversation honey! *insert snark*

It's the same OLD swoop & poop out of you daily!

Maybe Obama should send Super Joe Biden over to Libya to straighten things out. The guy is a miracle worker.

And then, along comes Spankie and her pal S.O.T.B. to decided who's posts need THEIR 2 cents worth. It's a hekc of a good time, I tell ya!

And no, Spankie, YOU tell US if we are getting our money's worth, or YOU tell US if Bev's postion is unbelievable or not, and why it is or is not. See, I posted what was on MY mind (JoAnna's need to rag on the President), not what YOU want to be on my mind. Why the hell would I comment on things YOU want comments on? YOU comment on 'em.

Sheesh..

Maybe Obama should send Super Joe Biden over to Libya to straighten things out. The guy is a miracle worker.

Friday you touted John McCain going to Libya. How'd that work out?

Oh, we are, JoAnna- we are. May not sound like it, but trust us- we can smell 2012 from way back here....

PDO: Oh, we are, JoAnna- we are. May not sound like it, but trust us- we can smell 2012 from way back here....

Yeah, about that smell from "way back [there]". Light a match will'ya?

Can I be a JS1 groupie?

Wow, Feisty- I guess SOTB told YOU!

And that, my friend, is what 'SOMETHING of value' looks like, I guess/

Can I be a JS1 groupie?

Nope. Sorry Job1, You have to be a Tea Bagging Neonut to be a card carrying member of that sect! Besides being a libbie is way more fun. Those guys always have some poll (not pole or maybe...) up their collective rumps!

SOB's a real 'stitch' isn't she Buzz?

She really should change her name to Professional Instigator - much more fitting...

Did you happen to catch her and JS1 last week with EGG all over their faces?

I offered them a napkin, but, they had already taken off to the hills with their tails between their legs! ;o))

PS: Can somone point me to her posts of 'value' I still can't seem to locate them!

Fisty Redbush...you of all people need to look in the mirror.

So DBO - is it that you are just a partisan simpleton, or can you not see the difference between "ragging" and raising legitimate points?

Hint - Fisty is the queen of "ragging." She simply calls people names or makes fun of their appearance. JAS1 gave a host of issues with Obama's performance.

Come on man, the frigging Daily Beast just called him Jimmy Carter. Ouch!

Again, the points she raised were each legitimate, which is why you lack any present ability, or capability to refute any of them, which kinda suggests you are a partisan simpleton.

But hey, I suppose the "secret" is out on why you like to keep your comments as short as possible, right DBO? You are at your best when you don't say anything.

Whack goes the mole. :)

JFK - she can't, they always crack!

Spanky-

"So DBO - is it that you are just a partisan simpleton, or can you not see the difference between "ragging" and raising legitimate points?"

From where I sit, it looks like the only difference is what YOUR opinion is. You're right, everybody else is wrong, eh? I like it. Simple as hell, and yet so....so.....well, RIGHT!

Oh come on big guy - walk the walk or don't.

Refute the points JAS1 made. Coming back with a silly conclusion does nothing for anyone.

Tell us why what she said is "ragging" and why it is not valid criticism.

But other than that I do like that you realize that 1. I am always right; and 2. RIGHT is, well, right.

:-)

Don't flatter yourself, Spanker. What makes you think anyone gives one rat's ass what YOU think? Also, along that same line, what makes you think I should answer ANY of your non-stop nonsense??

Smith has opinions, just like I do. And mine is- she's wrong. Sorry if YOU don't like it, but then again, who the hell are you? That's right- NO BODY! Unless, of course, YOU want to offer proof all her 'ragging' on Obama is NOT wrong. Go ahead- be our guest. But I, for one, really don't give that rat's ass. See, Stu, how easy it is?

Past Secretaries of State, Howard Baker, Colin Powell, and Madeline Albright were asked about President Obama's leadership in foreign affairs. All three (two Republicans and one Democrat) scored his work as very high. One reason...He took his time to contemplate the consequences of his decisions and he didn't "shoot from the hip".

He gets daily briefings on world events. He knows what is going on and plans accordingly.

I agree Amy -

You can't on one hand scream how broke we are, and propose drastic cust to major progras to reign in debt yet on the other hand expect to spend money to fight a war in Libya.

By the way, the Republicans have done a great job of having us all automatically ask"How much is that going to cost?"

Personally, I think President Obama got into the Libya crisis because his back was against the wall and he has proposed a very minimalistic role for America. Like everyone else, I figure he would like Gaddafi to go away but no one knows who will fill that void.

We might end up with another yahoo like we have in Afganistan and ulimately, the end result of the rebels winnnig or losing isn't that big of a deal either way.

Ron, Indiana: He took his time to contemplate the consequences of his decisions and he didn't "shoot from the hip".

Shoot from the hip? Mr. Nobel Peace Prize has to be shown which end of the gun to hold. And did Obama contemplate $5/gallon gas on behalf of the consequences of his actions?

And you think Powell is a Republican. That is just so cute.

How, exactly, has Obama cause the gas prices to be what they are right now?

No hyperbole or sound-bites, now- just facts please.

OK DBO... slowly so you can understand...

It's called UNCERTAINTY... Obama introduces it with his actions and the markets react accordingly.

Now think before you spout some nonsensical response.

3... 2... 1...

Yeah, same. I'm REALLY curious to find out how, exactly, Obama is responsible for the lot of us getting gouged at the gas pump. Far as I'm aware, that can be chalked up to paranoid speculation but, if you're privy to some juicy tidbit detailing otherwise, please, please - share with the classroom.

And, you know, I'd far rather have a leader who takes a restrained approach to world affairs over one who sticks our collective nose (and wallets) into every man-made mess.

Easy DBO. Obama is paying off his rich oil buddies. Remember that one?

Well said, Amy. I missed Richard Engel's report, glad to know what he said.

How would McCain pay for his intervention? How long would the USA be stuck in Libya? Where would we find the military troops to invade? How many more multiple deployments can our military survive? Would McCain raise taxes to pay for all the wars he has been so quick to say "yes" to? So many questions unasked by David Gregory.

Richard Engel understands the middle east better than most journalists who just report. After Tunisia and during the Egyptian rebellion, Engel indicated that the biggest driver of these rebellions is economics and the high price of food, housing, the lack of living wages. He mentioned the commodities trading and speculation that bids up the cost making it more and more difficult to survive.

As for the price of gasoline, Goldman Sachs wrote a report indicating that commodities trading and speculation has added at least $.75 to every gallon of gasoline. Since President Obama and former President Bush are/were not in the commodities trading business, the correct assumption from both right and left is that presidents do not set the price of gas nor do they have much influence on it. The "assumption" of course, requires that a person actually use their individual ability to reason, something JS1 never does. Libyan oil is roughly 2% of the total oil traded--a drop in the proverbial bucket. Our biggest oil supplier is Canada. And yes, Colin Powell is a republican--the best kind of republican; he represents old school conservatism.

SOB - you are just wating your time.

They simply choose not to understand. Doesn't fit their narrative.

DBO - are you ready for the "summer blends?" I hear they burn so very much cleaner and all.

Say is it the EEEVVVIIILLLL oil companies that force the 22 different blends? The bastards make about 9 cents. But the collective governments make almost 50 cents. So who exactly is making the ridiculous profits?

Hey there buddy - when it hits $5.00 you gonna change your screen name? Peddle By Observer perhaps? :)

Gee, Speaker Pelsoi was convinced high gas prices were Bush's fault back in 2008. So it stands to reason that she also holds Obama responsible today. And many Liberals like yourself Buzz agreed with Speaker Pelosi at the time. In 2008 the Speaker (Pelosi) blamed what she labeled "The Bush-Cheney big oil agenda", using graphics to point out gasoline prices have more than doubled in the Bush administration. So, just to be fair, if they were Bush's fault in 2008, they are Obama's fault in 2011, correct?

Source: http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local&id=6250899

Yes, to the Libs back in 2008, it was those "Evil oilmen in the White House gouging consumers". Now the Liberals stand around and when asked who is responsible they shrug and go "I !dunno!"

Back seat drivers and hind sight come to mind.

Obama leading from behind and MSNBC wants to lean forward. Coincidence?

"It's called UNCERTAINTY... Obama introduces it with his actions..."

OK, now we might be getting somewhere. What, exactly, are his 'actions' that are causing gas to be what it is today? Libya? Even though that oil goes East? Moratoriums in the Gulf? Even though those are lifted , and then only applied to a realatively few of the very deep wells? How about all the inactive leases in the Gulf? No, those are not being affected by his 'acitons'. Hmm..... what was oil per barrell during the Bush years when it so high? What 'actions' were going on then?

And yes, Spanks- We've heard the 'summer blend' excuse. We've heard 'more summer driving' excuse. We've heard the 'China nd India are using more and more'. BUT- which of those has Obama affected with his 'acitons'?

Geez- look at all the question marks. Holy cow! Next thing you know, I'll be bragging about my huge barge of an RV, while whining about gas prices on some blog somewhere!

Amy B:

I was struck, watching Meet The Press on Sunday, by the interview with McCain from Libya and how old-fashioned he sounded, urging us to get into the fight with the Libyan rebels against Qaddafi.

I felt like asking McCain, "and with what money are we going to fund this latest Mid Eastern mission?

From this, I take it that David Gregory didn't ask him?

Just goes to show, doesn't it?

Surprisingly, I recognize the technique of leading from behind from my days as a teacher. Children learn best when they are given the tools and the room to plant, grow, and blossom. It's called empowerment. All in all, not a bad idea, as long as you stay right behind your students and are there when you need them.

So, I give the President credit, if that's his strategy. But in my opinion, we could use a little more "followship" from him.

"So, just to be fair, if they were Bush's fault in 2008, they are Obama's fault in 2011, correct?"

Excellent question. So, which is correct? One of them has to be, right?

HAHAHA Rocco... I had not thought of that! BUT EWWWWWW.... that's so NASTY!

Shoot from the hip?

"Let's see, Senator McCain is in Libya working a deal to bring peace to the country." - JoAnnaSmith1, 4/22/2011

So, how did "Old Man River" do in his "negotiations"? All I heard outta him was how much he LOVED the rebels.

Hey DBO...

Obama hasn't changed his position at on Libya has he? We are still just enforcing a 'no fly zone' right?

Ghadafi should go.. no stay... no go...

We are not chosing side... but lets supply the rebels now...

Get a grip. Your boy has no clue what he's doing. While it may be true that only 2% of the world's crude oil comes from Libya and that goes to France (among others)...

Do you think Obama's changing position has an impression on the other middle eastern countries and what about the oil they supply?

The uncertainty of Obama's waffling position on Lybia reaches MUCH farther! if you cannot see that then you are either blind or simply unwilling to look.

Children... you ALWAYS have to spell it out for them!

Bush opened up drilling and the prices fell. Most of the production today is a result of that effort. Obama has collapsed the energy industry. Nothing is in the pipeline.

Egypt has sided with the Hizbo and Hamas guys. Israel has been receiving Grad rocket attacks and mortar attacks on a level unseen in years. It would probably fall in this spring if not for the troubles in Syria where Assad has has to kill over 350 the last few days. Today evidently the gloves are coming off, tanks firing on protesters, snipers even shooting mourneres at funerals, people being left in the street to die.

Iran has tried for a @!$%#e uprising in Bahrain. Saudis have moved in and there is great tension of a Sunni vs. @!$%#e war.

Libya? Disaster. Foreign reports say China, Russia, Belarus, Ukraine and Serbia have all come in on the side of Gadhafi. The drone attacks have actually been targeted to destroy new arms coming in to Gadhafi from his new friends.

The above is about 1/2 of what is going on in the Middle East. Something breaks and we're looking at $6 gas.

Do you guys never read foreign media?

Jody, Engels is right about the economics of the unrest. Think Obama's farm subsidies, ethanol subsidies have anything to do with the price of food for them too?

Combine all the above with Obama's destruction of the dollar, where people are commodities instead of relying on the value of a stable dollar and there you are.

The world needs US leadership, sound policies, strong dollar ............. Thank Obama for showing us what it looks like when the previous is missing.

PBO: Excellent question. So, which is correct? One of them has to be, right?

Here's what the New York Times Thomas Friedman thought on the issue back in 2008. He seems to think the President has a lot to do with gas prices. Mr. Friedman said at the time regarding America depending on foreign oil:

"That’s what a real president would do. He’d give us a big strategic plan to end our addiction to oil and build a bipartisan coalition to deliver it."

Mr. Friedman has yet to comment on if he thinks Mr. Obama is a "Real president".

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/22/opinion/22friedman.html

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the French press (lol pun) us, and the rest of NATO, into aiding the Libyan rebels?

JAS1 seems to forget that Bush and Cheney both are oilmen by profession and their families own oil companies and, in Cheney's case, was CEO of a major oil company that was receiving HUGE profits from the overpriced oil, increased drilling and the No-Bid contracts from the Government at the time. The overpriced gasoline helped sell their idea of FEAR and Uncertainty.

President Obama, on the other hand, is NOT from one of the major oil trading or drilling companies, and the oil companies may well be trying to tarnish his image by artificially inflating the price on oil and gasoline for a twofold purpose, massive profits and the political fallout that they are trying, Oh so desperately, to pin on Pres. Obama.

Jas1 would like you to ignore the man behind the curtain and focus on the irrelevant, for her own, snarky political agenda, which, I am reasonably sure, she gets paid for!

In 2010 oil production in the US was at its highest level since 2004. It was at its lowest level in 2008.

http://climateprogress.org/2011/03/09/drill-baby-drill-fails-oil-prices-soar-production-obama-barbour-blame/

"Ghadafi should go.. no stay... no go...

We are not chosing side... but lets supply the rebels now..."

OK, EInstein- ONEMORE TIME: just HOW, e x a c t y does this affect what I pay at the pump today???? Libyan oil? Yeah, we know that there is oil there. We also (well, MOST of us) know it goes to Asia. WHen Bush was prez, and oil was much higher at one point, was Gadafi goes/stays in the equation??

Speaking of spelling things out for folks- you DID know, didn't you, that Saudi Arabia is cutting BACK on production, because there is TOO much on the market right now?

BH: President Obama, on the other hand, is NOT from one of the major oil trading or drilling companies, and the oil companies may well be trying to tarnish his image by artificially inflating the price on oil and gasoline for a twofold purpose, massive profits and the political fallout that they are trying, Oh so desperately, to pin on Pres. Obama.

Ohh, a conspiracy!! How exciting. I guess the Right has it's "Birthers", and you on the Left felt left out.

Better pop some corn, watching the Left "prove" the oil companies are out to get Obama is going to be entertaining.

Sarkozy thinks Obama is an idiot. Obama doesn't like Sarkozy because Sarkozy has him figured out.

Obama is a multilateralist that believes in the UN. The Arab League was Obama's motivation. Obama used/allowed the French and UK to bring it before the UN. It all looked like low hanging fruit to Obama.

Funny, after the first night of bombing - the Arab League turned on Obama. Duh.

This guy is so out of his depth.

McCain and and Freidman.

Back seat drivers and hind sight come to mind.

Dennis,

There is a big lag time in oil production. What you cite is the effort of Bush not Obama. What you see in price speculation is Obama not Bush - Obama has shut down exploration and drilling.

Besides libs - what are you complaining about?

This is Obama's agenda, he wants prices to go up to push his green agenda. He has said so - his energy Secretary even stated he wanted $8 gas!

So Obama didn't think prices would rise so quickly, he didn't count on the value of the dollar plunging so much do to his policies and he thought he could to talk the Middle East into getting along because he was brillant and had a Muslim name.

Oh well.

How, exactly, has Obama cause the gas prices to be what they are right now?

It always seems that when the GOP has control of any part of the Legislative or Executive branch of the government the price of oil goes up. I see BP is back on track with 5.3 billion for the last 1/4. Regulations we don't need no stinking Regulations! It's the Free Market, Supply and Demand, yadda, yadda, yadda... All right junior bend over!

DBO- yapping about the supply. Brother it ain't crude you are pouring in your car. Its gasoline. So prey tell, which of the 22 blends are the refiners producing?

I would suggest that if there were a few more refiners around they could produce so more. Think the number of refineries has anything to do with the EPA and multitude of other government regs? I but you have never read our litttle diddy: AB22, or seen the crap that CARB puts out.

Supply my man, it's all about supply - cause that's what the future market focuses on.

The good news is even while is is leading us from behind as we lean forward, Obama's gonna have to take care of this or he has no shot. And he's pretty smart, right DBO.

So just how much does the federal government make in one year off all the gas taxes, and where does all that money go?

Nice to see you, Exodite Dragon. Hang on for the explanation of Obama's culpability.

Dennis- nice try with the oil stats. You have been posting this same deliberately misleading information for a couple of days. Yes, oil production in this country reached its peak in May of 2010; the decline began just after

http://www.kiplinger.com/businessresource/forecast/archive/gulf-cuts-bring-us-oil-output-down.html

This year, so far, production is down 13%- that is, thirteen per cent- and the slope is still downward. That, my friends, is directly attributable to Obama. See, he does not like getting dirt out of the ground, so he stopped production in defiance of not one, but two federal court orders that were, incidentally, upheld on appeal. Court orders mean little to the ideologue.

As to his greater culpability- in the early spring of 2010, Obama was warned that war and weather had combined to create upcoming food shortages that would cause a great deal of unrest in Northern Africa and the Middle East.

Obama's response was to go play golf, gear up his campaign mode for Democrats facing mid term challenges, and take another trip or two.

What he did NOT do was instruct the Agriculture department to use its role in keeping the food mArket stable to increase production- this would have included reducing corn grown for ethanol, which is of a different grade than corn grown for consumption.

So, ignoring the problem did not, as a result, cause it to evaporate, much to Obama's surprise, if you, like me, believe he is simply inept. There are those who believe he is maliciously manipulating events to create a "new world order"- I am not one of them, as I truly do not believe he has the requisite imagination to pull such a thing off.

In any event, the result of the food shortages was the unrest in Tunisia, which spread to Egypt, Bahrain, Yemen, among others- including Libya. Libyan oil, while not purchased bynthe U.S., is, in fact, sold on the world mar let- or was, until the uprising shut down their production.

So, reduced supply has, once again, caused prices to rise. It is simple economics that most fifth graders understand.

And, yes, Obama is to blame, no matter how much liberals love to believe that nothing is ever his fault. They have to believe that, because, like their idol, they can never admit when they are wrong.

Published: April 20 2011 19:32
US oil production this year is on course to rise, independent forecasters believe, in spite of delays to drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, as the boom in the onshore oil industry offsets the slowdown offshore.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0d198396-6b77-11e0-a53e-00144feab49a.html#axzz1KZW6Z4xI

Dennis, you either did not read, or did not comprehend, the article you linked.

First of all, the FT proscribes linking its articles- so, nice job breaking their rules.

Secondly, the article CLEARLY states that the United States government's Energy Information Administration issued a statement that U.S. oil production will drop by 30,000 barrels per day this year, and an ADDITIONAL 120,000 barrels per day NEXT year. Where, exactly, do you think that will take gas prices?

The FT based its headline on the predictions of two energy consulting companies-IHS Cera and Wood Mackenzie- who include, in their analysis, related liquids, as well as crude. They are banking on fracking in North Dakota- you think environmentalists are going to roll over and play dead on that? Cause, I sure do not.

Spin all you like- gas is headed to $6 a gallon- which I warned about when Obama let Egypt get out of hand- and it lays at the feet of your idol.

You do not have to accept it. You can keep on waiting for the energy fairy to wave a magic wand and make it all go away. The rest of us live here in the land of reality, where the skies are never plaid, and Obama is every bit the failure I expected him to be.

Worse, in fact.

When exactly did he have the option of saying 'no this is wrong'?

When they wanted him to denounce the war in front of their cameras... for their propoganda machine?

Or perhaps he could have said no this is wrong by joining those cowards that ran for Canada...

No. He answered his country's call... and with HONOR!

I think I disagree with John McCain on about 98% of the things he says and does. He is not the same John McCain we knew in the 2000 campaign. His politics have changed. He's not the "Maverick he used to be. Yep all true. One thing has not changed. John McCain stood tall in hell when he was a prisoner of war. No one should EVER denegrate his service to this country.

I don't agree with John McCain's politics - but that doesn't give me free license to make judgment calls about his military service, especially considering I (and many, many Americans) cannot speak from a similar experience.

And you should thank Mr. McCain and the heroes like him for making sure that you did not have to experience that!

Young people who answer the call of their country... without hesitation... without fear for personal safety... Heroes all of them!

I also do not think we should degrade McCain's mililtary record. That said, there is a misconception that McCain was/is a maverick. He voted almost always with his republican party. He rarely went against the party wishes. But the few times he did, gave rise to his "maverick" image which was pushed more by the media than McCain himself until it became an asset for his campaigns.

McCain is definitely different from what he was during the 2000 presidential primary race. But the republican party is also definitely different from it's pre-Bush 43 self. The GOP left me with Ronald Reagan's policies; the GOP left moderate republican America with Bush and headed to its John Birch wing in 2009. The question now is can the GOP find it's way back to center and back to being the republican party of Lincoln, T.R. Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Ford, Bob Dole? As a liberal, I hope they can but I have doubts because they seem to have sold their souls to the company store.

Really?

And did those 'tax loopholes' just appear over night? That's why the gas prices started moving up?

Funny how those loopholes appeared just about the time the Libya thing got going...

NO... you are a fool. The tax 'loopholes' have been there a LONG LONG time and gas prices did not jump due to that factor... You are just spouting the same old leftwing rhetoric... (EVIL CORPORATIONS!)

Think next time BEFORE you speak... PLEASE!

Well Progressive, it would seem that unless the gas situation improves, voting with the pocketbook will prevail in this election. And the ProgressiveDemocratic Party will be condemned for their spending programs, with Obama taking the heat for his Leadership from behind. Or is that a term similar to "Attacking from the Rear" with the situation is lost?

The economy is in the tank, gas prices high, groceries growing in cost while product purchased is lower in volume, and the left continues to blame Bush. Come on people, when does the Progressive-Dems accept ownership for their administrations?

Hey, conservatives ever hear of commodities trading, commodities speculation--they play a huge role in driving up the price of food and gas.

Even Ronald Reagan when he realized how lopsided the tax code had become, how many loopholes had been created did something about it. That was the last time the tax code was reviewed and loopholes and tax breaks eliminated. I'd say the USA is long overdue for a tax code overhaul--we'd find some serious revenue in those loopholes. In fact, I think Congress should pass legislation requiring review of the tax code every five or ten years.

Perhaps the answer is the fact that since most all of the oil companies in the US are owned by Republicans and their backers, that this is merely an attempt to distract from the realities that are happening now and to tarnish President Obama in the economic/political arena when he actually has no say over gas or oil prices.

In the same stripe, since MOST of the Big Corporate Business world is firmly on the Republican side, they are NOT Hiring so as to keep the economy bad with the same effect: to make President Obama look ineffectual and try to damage his reputation politically.

The problem is that a growing number of Americans are realizing this and placing the blame where it truly should be, on the Corporations and their bought-and-paid for Republican/TP lackeys at all levels of government. We are not fooled and the 2012 election will be a referendum on the Repub/TPers and their corporate masters and they will be removed from office in droves. Hopefully the rest of the Blue Dog Dems and those who have also been bought off by the corporations will be replaced with Dems who actually care about the POPULACE of this nation, and not just the people who hand them millions of dollars for their election campaigns.

Yes, the pocketbook will certainly make a difference in the upcoming election, and the People will vote out of office those who side with the corporations who are raping this nation dry and at the same time are destroying the safety nets that keep people from starving since the corporations and banks are working so hard to keep the economy from recovering.

Perhaps the answer is the fact that since most all of the oil companies in the US are owned by Republicans and their backers,

Well, the stockholders own the companies. Are you saying Democrats don't buy oil stocks?

In the same stripe, since MOST of the Big Corporate Business world is firmly on the Republican side, they are NOT Hiring

Apple? Microsoft? Google? Facebook? Those corporations are "Republican"?

You got any proof for these rants? Any at all?

Apple, Microsoft, Google and Facebook at least try to operate with the public good in mind, BUT, they are a tiny slice of the corporate world.

Does JAS1 have any PROOF that I am wrong?? At least I am not into the whole name calling and mudslinging that so many of the right -wing corporate paid trolls are so heavily dedicated to.

BH: Does JAS1 have any PROOF that I am wrong??

These are your wild theories BH, it's up to you to prove them. Can't prove a negative and all.

B. Honest- its you and all of us with stock and investment accounts that own the corporations. Just ask all the English retirees that took paper loses over the BP spill.

Do you know what a corporation is, hows it operates, and how it is owned? Knida does not seem like you do. The board acts to maximize profits for the shareholders. And again, that's you, me and a whole bunch of teacher's funds and retirees.

oh and i got me a butt_load of Apple stock. Great stuff, but stop with the "public good" crap. Apple has had many little Chinese workers kill themselves over crappy conditions.

But that appears to be cool with you and your hippster Ipod/Ipad and Macbook Pro? Nice! But it seems a tad "republican" of you.

jody ogf iowa - what is your point on commodities? Since they are traded on a global basis, do you think that the US can regulate prices worldwide?

Actually Spanky, I do not own any stock, I understand it very well but refuse to put my money into that amoral casino myself. I also do not own ANY Apple products as I do NOT fall into the "Have to have the newest conspicuous consumption tech" group and fully understand that Apple uses Chinese labor and so do not give them any of my business.

As far as 'Wild Theories' I merely tell what I can plainly see and that is the fact that the right-wing corporate and finance world is doing everything in their power to try to make sure that President Obama fails. It has been widely reported in various media as quotes from many right-wing ideologues that they are working to make Pres. Obama fail. Anyone who has not been deluded by the right-wing lie machine can plainly see this. Why else would businesses that are profiting so mightily, record profits at that, not be hiring when it would increase their profits even more? Why are they sitting on over $2 TRILLION in cash when that money could be making better returns for them if they invested it in their businesses? Why are banks not lending when the returns would profit them even more than the T-Bills that they keep dumping their profits and near-zero Fed loans into? Why are the paid blogging trolls suddenly jumping on me when I point out an obvious truth...could it be that I am pointing out a truth that they are being paid to make sure never comes up or call it a 'conspiracy theory' when it does? Conspiracies really DO happen.

I have no need to get into the mudpit and wallow around with JAS1 because anyone with their eyes open KNOWS that what I am saying is the truth and anyone who has followed First Read for any amount of time KNOWS what JAS1 is. One of the best things that I could have happen here is for JAS1 to say that I am wrong as anyone with a functioning brain will immediately recognize that she is a paid operative of the right-wing and only works off from her talking point sheet of right-wing deceit, disinformation and mudslinging in her attempts to derail real dialogue on our current problems.

It is good to see you recognize the truth about Apple and the others your cited, which calls into question what you said about them - you know that crap about "operating for the public good."

So that statement was less that HONEST, right BHonest?

Oh your comments reflect a total lack of understanding about the business world, but then again what you think is "obvious truth" is just stupid, silly, immature horse crap.

But hey if you could tell me where I can go to get a "paid troll" hook up, that'd be great. Or is that a conspiracy?

"Paid operative of the right wing." Paging Mr. Stone, your table is ready.

B. Honest

Does JAS1 have any PROOF that I am wrong??

Yo! B.Honest... I think that is the logic that started the Salem Witch Trials...

"She's a witch... How do you know she is a witch? She turned me into a newt... I got better!"

Spanky

http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-blodget-us-now-has-more-paid-bloggers-than-lawyers-2009-4

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124045072480346239.htm

And this one, where a Repub admits that over half of all Repub bloggers are on their payroll: http://btx3.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/paid-political-bloggers-exposed/

And MUCH, MUCH MORE, just Google Corporate Paid Political Bloggers!

BH: Actually Spanky, I do not own any stock, I understand it very well but refuse to put my money into that amoral casino myself. I also do not own ANY Apple products

How pious of you. Do you build your own tires for your bike? Because corporations make those products. You don't have a savings plan or 401K? They are invested in, you guessed it, corporations. Do you grow your own food? If you don't and you buy it, you do know that corporations create and sell food too. And that silicon chip in that CPU you're using to go on the internet? Probably built by Intel, which is, you guessed it, a corporation.

So lets cut through the bs that you're some how independent from the world.

BH: I have no need to get into the mudpit and wallow around with JAS1 because anyone with their eyes open KNOWS that what I am saying is the truth and anyone who has followed First Read for any amount of time KNOWS what JAS1 is.

Yeah, "Everybody knows" you are the great "Seer of the Truth". With the only problem being you can't even answer simple questions to back it up.

Again, you made the statement that corporations are Republican lackey's. Prove it.

Sage quote, there.

YD: Over the weeks, it appears as if NATO/US is bent on fighting for the dubiously goaled and shadowy "freedom fighters".

It's looking more like the US will carry the "freedom fighters", which ever ones manage to survive, across the finish line, declare victory, and declare those "fighters" the new leaders of Libya, wave a few flags, pull down a statue or two. Right after that, we might even ask them their names.

yellowdog - agree

(Same old rhetoric! PLEASE try to show some creativity and come up with something new...)

BTW... Did you look in the senate? They are probably stuck there ;-)

Yes, maybe TAT'S where all the bills are. Name a few of them for us, will you? You know, remove that old 'rhetorical' facet of all this. Maybe we can research 'em somewhere.

TAT'S =THAT'S. Can't type. never could.

This job creation thing must take a little time. Still waiting on those "400,000 jobs created almost immediately" from ObamaCare and "4 million jobs created" in total from ObamaCare. That's what ex-Speaker Nancy Pelosi told us, and she wouldn't lie to us, would she?

Source: http://townhall.com/tipsheet/greghengler/2010/02/25/pelosi_obamacare_will_supply_400,000_jobs_almost_immediately!

Yo DBO - even the libbies at the Times and Daily Beast now understand QE2 to be a total failure, so why is O and the gang pressing forward with QE3?

Jobs?

If Obama is ten steps ahead, why is he leading from behind? And how does Snyder seize a golf course that opened a year before he took office?

Ira,

And, since the Republicans gained a majority in the Maine state legislature and won the governorship this is what they have done to create jobs:

Put up a sign (manufactured in Texas) on the turnpike saying "Open for Business!"

Introduced legislation to reduce the minimum wage for people under age 20 to $5.25, removing restrictions on how many hours and how late at night they can work.

Removed restrictions on building on sand dunes.

Proposed repealing the popular bottle deposit law which keeps tons of waste out of landfills and repealing a ban on billboards (even the President of the Maine Chamber of Commerce objects to that one!)

Forced teachers to contribute more to their pension fund, while reducing the amount the state contributes. Passing the "savings" on to the 1 % wealthiest Mainers in the form of a $2,700 tax break.

Ira - What do you think business or individuals will do when they see a massive future debt? They are going to ask "am I going to be stuck paying off this debt with higher taxes and fees?"

Have yet to see anyone of wealth not look to invest their extrta $$$.

As goes the economy so goes the jobs.

american,

Dows that also apply for the Ryan plan that adds another $6 trillion to our National debt and is based on 3% unemployment?

american-2051576...

We both agree we need to reduce the deficit. All I'm saying is we can immediately reduce it by 14 trillion dollars by repealing the Bush tax cuts and raising the tax rate on those making over $250,000 to 39% from 35%. Cut the loopholes so companies like GE who made billions last year and paid no tax on their earnings will pay their fair share. Did you pay taxes, I sure did and my income was not close to a billion dollars.

Honest and you can Google it if you like, in this economy and in the 10 years prior, the wealthy have invested their money in the stock market. They are NOT creating jobs cause if they were we wouldn't have so many Americans out of work. They are living on profits and interest and dividends while the rest of us are just getting by. That's the way I see it. Agree to disagree.

Ira, if you taxed everyone making over $200,000 and up 100 percent of their income, it would only come to 2.5 trillion dollars.

AmyB.

Forced teachers to contribute more to their pension fund, while reducing the amount the state contributes. Passing the "savings" on to the 1 % wealthiest Mainers in the form of a $2,700 tax break.

Amy, I am curious, you indicate teachers have to contribute more to their pension fund while reducing the amount the state contributes. What is the state contribution rate and the prior teacher rate, and the increase to the teacher currently?

dennis - of course it will. debt is still debt. ryans plan works towards greater cuts over a shorter period of time with a revenue neutral plan for the rich.. Obamas works off of lower cuts over a longer period of time, but then again obama's 2.0 plan hasn't given any numbers yet to draw estimated projections.

Regardless, anyone looking at the size of the debt has got to wonder if the taxpayers or businesses will be stuck with it and for how long. Personally I am hoping that the gang of 6 plan will offer viable alternatives to either obamas plan of no numbers and ryans plan of numbers. If the politicians want to kick our debt down the road again, I don't see the US as having a debt problem any more. Within 10 years, chaos and anarchy will rule.