Who Won the GOP/TP Beauty Contest?

Answer: Nobody.
Today a CBS poll reported that 56% of Republicans are not enthusiastic about any of their potential candidates. All five potential candidates earned an enthusiasm score of less that 10%. One might say, "Ron, it's early, one of the contenders will emerge from the pack". I don't think so. They are all too well known and they all have a history. No superstars in this group so expect a free-for-all GOP/TP convention with a Tea Party favorite emerging come convention time.

Others may say that enthusiasm doesn't matter so much. Well, yes it does matter. Look what happened to the Democrats in 2010. Without an enthusiastic group of followers, the ground game suffers and so does the GOTV. Corporate money is a poor substitute for dedicated supporters.

The poll did not include "The Donald". Perhaps it's too early to include him as a serious candidate. But in some GOP/TP circles he's getting some favorable reviews. Now why is that? It's because all the other GOP/TP contenders look so pitiful. Donald is doing well by default!

As a Democrat, I would like to see Pawlenty, Huckabee, Romney, Barbour, Gingrich and Palin run against our President. But my favorite is "The Donald". I look forward to hearing him say, "Excuse me" with every tough question: Seeing old video clips of Donald bashing Ronald Reagan; And watching Donald debate our President on foreign and domestic topics.

Run Donald Run
Watch Donald Run
Watch Donald lose.

This is funny stuff!!!!

When Kloppenburg had a couple hundred vote lead the day after the election, all the FR lefty liberals were whining that the Republican’s were going to tie everything up by demanding a recount. How dare they!!!! The lefty liberal candidate had won and they should just accept that the proper outcome had been achieved. After all “elections have consequences”.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From Politico:

Wis. challenger files for recount
By: Jennifer Epstein
April 20, 2011 05:35 PM EDT

Charging that voting “anomalies” were “widespread,” the liberal challenger in the Wisconsin Supreme Court race filed papers Wednesday afternoon requesting a recount in the close election that has her trailing a conservative incumbent by less than 0.5 percent.

JoAnne Kloppenburg arrived at the state Government Accountability Board’s office in Madison barely an hour before the 5 p.m. local time deadline by which she had to ask for a recount or concede defeat. According to the vote count finalized by the state last week, she trails Justice David Prosser by 7,316 votes out of nearly 1.5 million cast in the April 5 election.

Kloppenburg declared victory in the race less than 24 hours after polls closed, but as final canvassing efforts went on for several more days, the lead shifted back and forth, sometimes by just a few dozen votes. But Prosser took the lead after the Waukesha County clerk admitted that a “human error” had left thousands of votes out of the Republican-leaning county’s totals. Once those votes were added, Prosser took the 7,000-plus vote lead he has since maintained.

Joe in Albany

This is funny stuff!!!

Really Joe??? It is not. This is funny.

In Bad Company

VIDEO: Paul Ryan Booed At Town Hall For Defending Tax Breaks For The Wealthy

CONSTITUENT: The middle class is disappearing right now. During this time of prosperity, the top 1 percent was taking about 10 percent of the total annual income, but yet today we are fighting to not let the tax breaks for the wealthy expire? And we’re fighting to not raise the Social Security cap from $87,000? I think we’re wrong.

RYAN: A couple things. I don’t disagree with the premise of what you’re saying. The question is what’s the best way to do this. Is it to redistribute… (Crosstalk)

CONSTITUENT: You have to lower spending. But it’s a matter of there’s nothing wrong with taxing the top because it does not trickle down.

RYAN: We do tax the top. (Audience boos). Let’s remember, most of our jobs come from successful small businesses. Two-thirds of our jobs do. You got to remember, businesses pay taxes individually. So when you raise their tax rates to 44.8 percent, which is what the president is proposing, I would just fundamentally disagree. That is going to hurt job creation.

Watch it:

Still, Ryan’s outraged constituents are representative of the country as a whole. A new Washington Post-ABC News poll found that 72 percent of Americans wanted Congress to raise taxes on wealthy Americans making more than $250,000 per year.

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/04/20/paul-ryan-wealthy-tax-breaks/

Oh boy, where’s that Bad Boy James O'Keefe' who filmed ACORN (it was a fake) when you need a video edited? Or Andrew Breibart; oh snap, I forgot. Breibart is busy with his next BIG project.

Breibart is going after the teachers and unions to save the world. HAH!

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201104180045

Maybe he is licking his wounds since Glenn Beck threw him under the bus.

Bad Boy " Bad Boy what you gonna do?

Breitbart: "Glenn Beck Threw Me Under The Bus" On Sherrod Story

April 20, 2011

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201104200015

You Go Girl.

Wisconsin Assistant Attorney General JoAnne Kloppenburg has officially announced that she is requesting a statewide recount in her race against incumbent Supreme Court Justice David Prosser.

Suddenly, after the rogue GOP lost , the found 0.488%, of vote was due to Waukesha County Clerk Kathy Nickolaus (R) announced discovery of un-tabulated votes from the city of Brookfield -- giving Prosser his victory. Oh what a MIRACLE!!! It was hilarious.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/kloppenburg-requests-statewide-recount.php?ref=fpa

Obama Launches Sickening Class War Assault Against Republicans

http://nation.foxnews.com/president-obama/2011/04/20/obama-launches-sickening-class-war-assault-against-republicans

The Fox Nation is committed to the core principles of tolerance, open debate, civil discourse, and fair and balanced coverage of the news.

http://nation.foxnews.com/our-purpose

Test your IQ.

Is the Fox Nation true or false?

I agree with President Obama "Ryancare" is radical. The voucher doesn’t go far. Everyone knows a coupon expires on a certain day. Hopefully it won’t before a senior dies.

Here's another illustration of the damage that's been done to our democracy, thanks to the Citizens United ruling & the Kock Brothers:

On the eve of the November midterm elections, Koch Industries sent an urgent letter to most of its 50,000 employees advising them on whom to vote for and warning them about the dire consequences to their families, their jobs and their country should they choose to vote otherwise.

The election packet starts with a letter from Robertson dated October 4, 2010. It read: "As Koch company employees, we have a lot at stake in the upcoming election. Each of us is likely to be affected by the outcome on Nov. 2. That is why, for the first time ever, we are mailing our newest edition of Discovery and several other helpful items to the home address of every U.S. employee" [emphasis added].

For most Koch employees, the "helpful items" included a list of Koch-approved candidates, which was presented on a separate page labeled "Elect to Prosper." A brief introduction to the list reads: "The following candidates in your state are supported by Koch companies and KOCHPAC, the political action committee for Koch companies. We believe these candidates will best advance policies supporting economic freedom."

After guiding employees on how they should vote, the mailer devoted the rest of the material to the sort of indoctrination one would expect from an old John Birch Society pamphlet (the Koch Brothers' father, Fred Koch, was a founding member of the JBS). It offers an apocalyptic vision of the company's free-market struggle for liberty against the totalitarian forces of European Union bureaucrats and deficit-spending statists.

"Before Citizens United, federal election law allowed a company like Koch Industries to talk to officers and shareholders about whom to vote for, but not to talk with employees about whom to vote for," explains Paul M. Secunda, associate professor of law at Marquette University. But according to Secunda, who recently wrote in TheYale Law JournalOnline about the effects of Citizens United on political coercion in the workplace, the decision knocked down those regulations. "Now, companies like Koch Industries are free to send out newsletters persuading their employees how to vote. They can even intimidate their employees into voting for their candidates." Secunda adds, "It's a very troubling situation."

The Kochs were major supporters of the Citizens United case; they were also chief sponsors of the Tea Party and major backers of the anti-"Obamacare" campaign. Through their network of libertarian think tanks and policy institutes, they have been major drivers of unionbusting campaigns in Wisconsin, Michigan and elsewhere.

http://www.thenation.com/

If this isn't a WAKE UP call for what the hell is going on in this country, well then,

Looks like we can KISS Land of the FREE & Home of the BRAVE goodbye

President Obama: "I'm a little older, a little grayer"...

http://theobamadiary.com/

Great photos from yesterdays event with Facebook.

______________________________________________

Think Progress: Comedian Jerry Seinfeld canceled an appearance at one of Donald Trump’s charity events, saying that he is disturbed by Trump’s rhetoric about President Obama. Seinfeld will however still make a monetary contribution to the charity, St. Jude’s Children’s Research Hospital.

______________________________________________________

This is what our nation should be all about. Jerry Seinfeld. Class. Pure class.

And Lawrence O'Donnell. Fantastic job not backing down to Trump's BS.

NBC - They had Jerry Seinfeld. And now Donald Trump. NBC can have him. We as a Nation don't want him.

This is funny stuff!!!!

Yeah Joe!

Hilarious Freakin Stuff isn't it?

Think Progress: Despite running on a message that they would “shake up” Washington, House GOP freshmen are raking in money from PACs, with more than 50 of the 87 members taking in at least $50,000 in PAC money during the first quarter of 2011. Eighteen took in more than $100,000, led by Rep. Steve Stivers’ (R-OH) $241,000.

__________________________________________

They're going to try and dismantle social programs in the meantime. This is who the Tea Party supporters voted for. They were wrong. These new members of Congress have no intention of shaking up anything. Shake down maybe. But no shake up.

Pat, Boston, MA: I did not know that about Seinfeld! Good on him!

Feisty: Thank you for the detailed follow up to my post. Seems we are on the same page again.

Ron and Bev: Great posts today. I think the GOP is getting madder every day as they see the opposition to their agenda keep growing. What they thought was going to be a slam dunk is appearing to come back and bite them for what they really are.

Not only are the TP rallies getting smaller in the number of rallies, the attendance is also dismal as well. TP politicians are getting booed and shouted off the stage.

Recalls of GOP/TP elected officials are increasing and will continue.

"Our President" will be re-elected in 2012. There is no real GOP/TP contender. They cannot campaign on JOBS, Economy, Education again. They tried that already and failed. We still have no plans from them on how to create jobs here, stimulate the economy or improve education. The people are not going to give them a third bite at the same apple.

Think Progress: Comedian Jerry Seinfeld......

_________________________________

Apparently, Jerrry Seinfeld is now one of the great minds of lefty liberalism.

Bev, THAT'S FUNNY!!!!!

I'm always so proud of the GREAT Post and information coming from our Progressive friends on First Read. It's so nice to have an association with so many insightful and like minded folks.

I'm sensing that the course in attitude is changing and people don't like what they are seeing coming out of the Republicans in charge. Heck in states where extreme Republicans Governors rule we are already seeing the people rise up and fight these bastards and say NO to the selling out of the American People.

The bottom line is we Progressives aren't going away, so you have better face that fact. This country is the United States of America in the year 2011, and not 1980.

I think the GOP is getting madder every day as they see the opposition to their agenda keep growing.

Thanks for the compliment Navy!

It's appalling what's going on, and 'fourth estate' is sitting on the sidelines...

Must not be'sexy' enough for them!

Looks like it's up to US to remain focused and diligent in staying on message and avoiding the distractions!

You KNOW what I mean about distractions... ;o)

@ Job! - I'm happy you joined us! United we stand...

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired, Good morning

the Koch Industries mailed a letters to 50,000 employees instructing them on whom to vote for in the 2010 midterm elections.

An excellent post as usual hitting all the salient points FR readers need to know.

That's not all the fifthly Koch Brother did that was wrong...

According to an August 30, 2010 article in The New Yorker magazine, "In 1999, a jury found Koch Industries guilty of negligence and malice in the deaths of two Texas teen-agers in an explosion that resulted from a leaky underground butane pipeline.

During the 1990s, Koch Industries's faulty pipelines were responsible for more than 300 oil spills in five states, prompting a landmark penalty of $35 million from the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). In Minnesota, it was fined an additional $8 million for discharging oil into streams. During the months leading up to the 2000 presidential elections, the company faced even more liability, in the form of a 97-count federal indictment charging it with concealing illegal releases of 91 metric tons of benzene, a known carcinogen, from its refinery in Corpus Christi, Texas.

Koch groups have spent tens of millions to influence government policy and buy politicians.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Koch_Industries#Pollution_-_Spills.2C_fines_and_indictments

From financing the Tea Parties, to funding junk academic studies, to undisclosed attack ads against Democrats, to groups promoting climate change denial, to a large network of state-based and national think tanks.

Joe in Albany thinks the Wisconsin. challenger filing for recount is funny. What I think is funny is how the GOP can makeup numbers. Like I said before, suddenly, after the GOP LOST the GOP thinks they made these BS numbers count; and the people will believe it's a miracle.

It finally stopped raining here in my favorite kinda town, Chicago. Hope it's true for you in Vermont.

First Thoughts: President Obama: You know everybody's a political consultant.

‘This seemed to be a subtle jab at those on the left (lots of them on the West Coast) who have done the most backseat driving of his presidency.

_________________________________________________

There is some confusion about what Senator Durbin said the other day about wanting to "reform" Social Security. Some on the left have mentioned primarying Senator Durbin because of this statement. I would like to see an interview with him soon, so this can be cleared up or way or the other. He's a valuable Senator and I like to hear what he meant by this statement.

Does SS need reforming? It seems to me the best programs in this country are run by the government. Social Security. Medicaid. Etc.

This tactic is coercion pure and simple. Any time you are intimidated by your employer to vote a certain way, that is a violation of your civil rights. The Koch brothers are bullies and they get away with this because they have money to spread lies. Fox Nation is just another arm of Koch Industries.

US Navy Disabled:

I have to disagree with you about the Koch brothers. Yes, I wonder about people like them who just can't get enough money. However, that's their problem, not mine.

We still have a secret ballot in this country, and no amount of "coercion", gentle persuasion, campaigning, or what-have-you is going to change that. It's still secret, and you can vote your conscience.

I understand that people will vote for a Koch candidate out of fear. That's a shame, but we cannot use the heavy hand of government to impede the "free" speech of the Kochs, or anyone else for that matter. That really is what the First Amendment is all about.

The issue is now, and always will be, EDUCATION. The Republican focus on cutting education should be of far more concern than how they spend their personal wealth.

Congratulations to Adam Green and the others who have worked so hard to achieve 5 successful recall petitions so far in Wisconsin, with Alberta Darling -- darling of the Republicans, maybe -- being the latest victim. And, has been reported elsewhere, Joanne Kloppenburg has called for a recount in the Supreme Court election, and the appointment of a special investigator. This is still a pretty interesting story, at least here.

But here's another interesting piece of news about Wisconsin and Scott Walker, who campaigned on a promise to balance the budget without raising taxes. I guess he just meant not raising taxes on the rich because he certainly hasn't kept that promise so far with regard to low income voters.

http://host.madison.com/ct/business/biz_beat/article_b3179c5e-6ac0-11e0-8ad7-001cc4c03286.html

Here's the skinny: Gov. Walker's proposed 2011-2013 budget calls for nearly $200 million in tax cuts for corporations and others over the next two-year budget cycle.

To help make up the difference, Walker wants to cut $41 million from the state's Earned Income Tax Credit for low-income working families.

What does this mean? A single working parent with two kids making $25,000 would see their income tax bill more than double from $193 to $394. While $200 may not seem like much, it's a big chunk of money to someone just getting by.

Walker is also cutting into the Homestead Tax Credit program, which directs property tax relief directly to low-income homeowners and renters. Homestead credits of $128.5 million were paid in 2010 for property taxes or rent to about 247,000 Wisconsin households.

The new Walker budget eliminates annual inflation adjustments, cutting Homestead credits by $8 million over two years or about $32 per low-income taxpayer. Again, not big dollars but enough to cover a phone bill.

So when you hear the Governor say he's balancing the budget without raising taxes, ask about the little people.

"You're a mean one, Mr. Grinch."

Scott Walker: Closed to little people. Open to the Koch Brothers. Call anytime.

all that money spent and you libs still lost in WI....and you'll continue to lose...the gravy train is over.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Here's another illustration of the damage that's been done to our democracy, thanks to the Citizens United ruling & the Kock Brothers:

If this isn't a WAKE UP call for what the hell is going on in this country, well then,

Looks like we can KISS Land of the FREE & Home of the BRAVE goodbye

Well Done Feisty

On the contrary Feisty

It's the chicken little right wing screed who can kiss the Land of Free and Home of the Brave goodbye.

Some Texans think we are gringos and they want to secede

Texas Nationalist group rallies for secession

The Texas Nationalist Movement marked Texas Independence Day with a rally on Saturday at the Capitol urging Texans to save the state by seceding from the United States.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/politics/7458701.html

Maybe that is why they want our government to fix up their land before they bid us Adiogs.

David Walker:

I agree with most of what you say. The problem I have with employers now being able to do what the Koch Brothers are doing is that it is going to intimidate a percentage of the people. I feel this is wrong. Yes we do have a secret ballot, but some people will be afraid that if they do not vote the party line of their employers, they will be found out and in a time where jobs are in supply like hens teeth they will act accordingly.

I just do not believe that employees should be put into that position at all to begin with.

Where does the intimidation stop?

Anna, great article. We're all watching Wisconsin carefully.

I have already decided that when we get to the end of the year and we have a contest to see who is the Person of the Year, my vote goes to the Wisconsin 14. They have had a major impact on what is going on all over the country.

Article title should have been the 3 Stooges vs Laural and Hardy.

If they took all the cuts from both sides, it would be a start. Neither side is willing to give up it's own priorities, yet wants the other side to give it all up. Politics as usual, I guess.

Start with even cuts across the board. Then go after the porkers like Defense, Welfare, entitlements. People this is not a time to take sides, it hurts us all. We must stand united and cut this debt down. Using a eye dropper to empty Lake Michigan is not going to work for anybody. Everyone needs to take a hit. Everyone's special project needs to be on the table. Let us all hope and Pray, in our own way, that Washington gets at least this piece of legislation right. We spent our way into this mess we can cut our way out. The simple logic of getting another job so we can max out the CC again is nonsence. As in more taxes so we can spend more is nonsence.

Thoughts from an Independent

joe:

you libs are bullies and thugs, SOROS funded stooges as the protest in WI prove

You couldn't be more wrong, joe, as Saturday's rally for Sarah Palin proved. It was the few hundred Tea-Partiers who were bussed in by Americans for Prosperity, which is the Koch brothers' organization. It was Sarah Palin who identified herself with Americans for Prosperity. Almost all the Tea-Partiers at the rally were bought-and-sold minions of the KOCH BROTHERS, the combined 4th largest fortune IN THE WORLD.

You need to stop watching Fox News, joe, and find out what's REALLY going on in the world.

If you would, then you would find out that the remainder of the protesters -- thousands of them, who were, as always, very peaceful -- were ordinary, homegrown Wisconsin citizens wielding cowbells and chanting "Sarah go home." Mostly they were there for the weekly Farmer's Market.

http://host.madison.com/entertainment/city_life/article_b94cba8a-3dd4-54c2-9f3b-0cab1ec02813.html

If that counts as thuggery to you, then you need to get your meter fixed.

And maybe it would help if you came to Wisconsin sometime and found out what we're REALLY like here, instead of listening to the O'Reilly's and Hannitys of the world.

Who do you think buys and pays for them?

Pat:

I have already decided that when we get to the end of the year and we have a contest to see who is the Person of the Year, my vote goes to the Wisconsin 14. They have had a major impact on what is going on all over the country.

Excellent idea, Pat. Without them, just imagine where we'd ALL be right now. They stopped the tidal wave, or at least slowed it down long enough for everyone else -- both here and elsewhere -- to catch on to what was happening. We certainly owe them a debt of gratitude.

joe-3041821

all that money spent and you libs still lost in WI....and you'll continue to lose...the gravy train is over.

I see you believe in miracles too; you poor soul.

The problem I have is the employees do have a secret ballot. However, what happens if through conversation or a bumper sticker on a car, the employee is singled out as not voting the company line.

of course you didn't notice those liberal thugs screaming obscenitites at a 14 year girl did you?

peaceful liberals, like those violent union thug protestors in WI? and that 'peaceful' teacher who was arrested for theatening the lives of republicans?

or how about his 'peaceful' code-pink rally where the racist libs are threatening to lynch clarence thomas?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JJesWvO3-4

oh and your lie and hatred toward the Koch brothers is despicable...an unrelated company in WI has had death threats from you liberal FASCIST THUGS....

'Koch brothers' confusion results in death threat for Iowa company

A case of mistaken identity has entangled a small family-owned Des Moines company in union protests and led to a death threat.

Angry callers are mistaking Koch Brothers, a Des Moines office supply firm, with the brothers who own Koch Industries, the global energy conglomerate. Billionaires Charles and David Koch have fought Wisconsin unions, financed the tea party and opposed climate change rules.

Dutch Koch, president of the Des Moines company, wants everyone to know he's not one of those Koch brothers, and he's not politically active.

"I initially thought it was humorous to be confused with a multibillionaire," he said, but then a death threat was left on his answering machine. Koch reported the call to the FBI, which he said traced it to a California man.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20110418/BUSINESS/110418022/1024/BASU/?odyssey=nav%7Chead

you libs are vile and evil

Beverly in Chicago

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired, Good morning

the Koch Industries mailed a letters to 50,000 employees instructing them on whom to vote for in the 2010 midterm elections.

Hey bev, Doesn't this sound alot like what old man daley did in the 60s and 70s, telling city and county employees who to vote for or else!!!! itsn't this what the GOP called voter fraud, but i guess since a private filthy rich citizen can do it, as long as he contributes to the GOP Right!!

Great job, US Navy, Feisty, Beverly, Ron, Pat, David Walker, Anna Molly. You've said what I had planned to say.

As for Jerry Seinfeld, cheers to him. I did see the video of his comments about Trump. They were as unflattering to Trump as was the comments Bill Cosby made about Trump.

Donald Trump has high poll numbers among the GOP/TP. This tells me those voters are incredibly uninformed or just don't care as long as he continues to be a birther, etc. They have no clue or choose to ignore that Trump represents everything they oppose and only recently changed his position to line up with the social issues republicans support.

Joe in Albany thinks the Wisconsin. challenger filing for recount is funny.

_______________________________

Bev, being the deep thinker that you are, I was sure you would immediately get the fact that what I found funny was the hypocrisy of you lefty liberals saying Republicans demanding a recount in a vote with a margin of a couple of hundred votes out of 1.5 million votes cast was wrong, but, when your candidate ended up on the losing side by 7300 votes, it is just the right thing to do.

I guess not.

Joe: all that money spent and you libs still lost in WI....and you'll continue to lose...the gravy train is over.

We may have lost the Supreme Court election, joe, but it's far from "over."

Who feeds you these silly canned lines, anyway? Americans for Prosperity? Fess up, Joe.

Anyway. It's far from "over," joe, because 5 recall petitions have already been filed, and another 3 are expected before the deadline. Success in just three of those elections would flip the State Senate, and that would mean that Scott Walker's Reign of Terror would be "over."

And the Koch brothers won't like that, will they, joe? Your masters, either, I suspect.

You'd better work harder, joe. Because you're sure not working smarter.

Joe in Albany:

when your candidate ended up on the losing side by 7300 votes, it is just the right thing to do.

Ordinarily, maybe not. Under these circumstances, absolutely it's the right thing to do.

It's not just Waukesha County in question. There are, as I understand it, several other voting districts that have turned up significant irregularities so far.

And yet, Republicans have pulled out that old, hackneyed, "it's going to cost the taxpayers money" argument, and are protesting that they're SURE that the results won't change.

How can they be so sure, Joe, when the margin is so small? And what are they afraid of, do you think, that they wouldn't want the results to be scrutinized?

As I recall it, that's the same old tired argument pulled out by Norm Coleman in Minnesota in 2008, and look how that turned out.

joe-3041821

you libs are bullies and thugs, SOROS funded stooges as the protest in WI prove

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Joe, does George Soros chase you and the other conservatives through your nightmares wearing fishnet stockings and stiletto heels while demanding you acquiesce to the demands of the Politburo?

Are you Liberals finished patting each other on the back yet? That seems to be a daily routine. You are not changing nor persuading anyone to see things your way due to the fact, all you do is rant and rave on how evil Republicans are and how great Liberals are. You are preaching to the choir. No one else is absorbing any of your little ThinkProgress, The Nation, etc. articles.....

does George Soros chase you and the other conservatives through your nightmares wearing fishnet stockings and stiletto heels while demanding you acquiesce to the demands of the Politburo?

____________________________________

George Soros is not going to be pleased that you have outed him on what he wears when nobody is looking!!!!

Ron Indiana

Who Won the GOP/TP Beauty Contest?

Answer: Nobody.

Run Donald Run
Watch Donald Run
Watch Donald lose.

Great post; although I'd rather see Donald's tax returns. The Donald has got people really fired up with his LIES.

This clown, excuse me goon (some clowns are highly intelligent) as a serious candidate for the GOP/T-Baggers says a lot about the dumbing down of America.

President Obama’s birth certificate is certified by the State of Hawaii; with a seal is something the Donald can’t seem to find. But, it’s actually on FactCheck.org and PolitiFact.

Isn't it funny?

Like I said before not since a child was born in the little town of Bethlehem has there been so much ado about a person’s birth.

Let's see we have Feisty, Navy, Pat, Beverly, Ron and I have to ask where's Louis? Is he sleeping in this morning? The FR Gang of 6!!

You guys really contribute to a fun day every day with you copy and pasting of liberal website talking points and patting each other on the back for being able to do that.

Your guy, Owebomber hasn't put up one real new idea (and it's not real and certainly not new) except tax the top 2% and make them pay more SSI (and cut their benefits while we're at it). Everything else for him is take from others who worked for it and spend, spend and spend more on people who don't.

This guy would try to tax the hell out of Susie's lemonade stand because she is working hard, making money and succeeding on her own. What I don't understand is why he thinks that those that studied hard in school, applied themselves, worked hard for improvement, took chances and did everything to get ahead should pay for all of those that sat on their duffs and screwed around.

The story of the three little pigs comes to mind and how the first two built crummy housing and played around while the third one built a house of bricks with hard work and little fun. When the big bad wolf came (read economic depression/world upheaval/high gas prices/high unemployment etc. etc.), the first two pigs were eaten because they didn't prepare. Of course the third pig lived because he had planned and worked hard and he eventually killed the Big Bad Wolf.

After it was over the third little pig invited his mother over. She said "You see it is just as I told you. The way to get along in the world is to do things as well as you can."

Fortunately for that little pig, he learned that lesson and didn't count on other people (read Owebomber and the Dems.) to bail him out. And he just lived happily ever after!

Sounds like a winning story to me!!!

trump must be onto something as upset as the liberal stooges are...

IntheMiddle, TX

We are only commenting on the stupidity of the GOP.

the town hall was great, he put that chart, they listioned and them asked the question we ask here everyday,

CONSTITUENT: The middle class is disappearing right now. During this time of prosperity, the top 1 percent was taking about 10 percent of the total annual income, but yet today we are fighting to not let the tax breaks for the wealthy expire? And we’re fighting to not raise the Social Security cap from $87,000? I think we’re wrong.

this as well as the Garbage in wisconson, recalls, voter fraud, tax breaks from children to corps, them Donald, Michelle, Sarah. Inthemiddle if this were on the dems side you would posting your ass off, come on.

joe:

you libs are vile and evil

Those poor, picked-on put-upon billionaires many times over.

Feel sorry for them, joe. Feel sorry for them. Because no one else does. At least not here.

I suppose I could play the same game and point out the Indiana official that urged Scott Walker to use "live ammunition" on peaceful protesters, or the other Indiana official who suggested that Walker stage an incident of violence against himself in order to create a fiction that the protesters were violent, or Walker himself, who told the phony David Koch caller that he had considered unleashing "thugs" and "goons" into the crowd to incite trouble, but that wouldn't be productive of much, would it?

And I could probably tell you, too, about the death threats that Nancy Pelosi received almost every day while she was Speaker of the House, and those that President Obama receives, and how your side mostly believes it's okay to kill doctors who perform legal abortions, and how that guy from your side blew up that big old building in Oklahoma City, the anniversary of which went almost unmarked out here, even though there was a very poignant post by someone who was there at the time and remembers.

But it wouldn't make any difference to you, would it, joe, because you've been paid to come here and say what you say.

By the way, I don't believe the woman who made those threats was a teacher. Even so, you try having someone come along out of the blue and for no good reason threaten to take away your legal rights, your livelihood, and your entire way of life, and see how you would like it.

But, if that's the best you can come up with after all this time, and all those protesters, well then ...

... res ipsa loquitur.

trump must be onto something as upset as the liberal stooges are...

LoL Yes, he's on to himself. He sticks to the mirror like glue. I hope he keeps going.

Job1:

However, what happens if through conversation or a bumper sticker on a car, the employee is singled out as not voting the company line.

Interesting question. Actually, I have already heard a rumor that some employees of a large private sector company here were fired for having been spotted at the anti-Walker rallies. This is one of those cases I wish had walked through MY door because our town may be unique in the United States in having an ordinance that specifically prohibits discrimination based on "political beliefs." That would be an open-and-shut case.

And Wisconsin also has a law on the books that prohibits threatening a person's employment in order to influence their vote. I'm surprised that the current regime hasn't already taken direct aim at that, although I suspect Walker couldn't get enough votes to repeal it right now.

These are interesting times we're living in, and that's for sure.

joe:

Anna: no surprise you're fine with death threats from liberals...you're sick and evil.

Well, no argument as to evil, I suppose, but actually I feel just fine, joe. You?

Anna Molly, thanks for yet more updates on conditions in Wisconsin. The fact that Walker plans to fund 85% of his tax breaks for the rich and corporations with tax INCREASES on people of lesser means is oh so indicative of the real intentions for the GOPTP.

Connect the dots, folks. Wealthy Conservatives are waging war against the middle class, and the Republican Party is their chosen battle group.

Pat, Boston, MA

I love the Obama Photo Diaries. They are positive.

Did you see the pirate Obama?

http://obamadiary.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/24cover-popup.jpg?w=391&h=500

I like this one from my neck of the woods here in Chi-town. What a lucky little girl.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/09Jb5kz9aa2In/x610.jpg

I like the "Dump the Chump" thread. I can't wait to see the effect it'll have on Trump.

FLOTUS is just simply gorgeous. I never shared this; but, my girlfriend was her secretary at the hospital. She tells me how sweet and nurturing Mrs. "O" is. That's another thing I hold close to my heart. It's a small, small world.

Don't believe all the angry BS the right says. FLOTUS is a successful, accomplished lawyer, mother, wife, strong Black woman and First Lady.

@Job1

I'm glad you joined the United we Stand too.

To all you Far Left Loons; Scott Walker is a hero! Change is a comin!

Feisty,

Did you see we've got another leg lifter 'marking' his territoryon every post. I DO miss those cheewowwows. They were FUN!

So when is Obama going to APOLOGIZE to Ryan for LYING about Ryan's budget proposal?

For that matter when is Obama going to APOLOGIZE to Sarah Palin now that he promised in his speech last week to balance the budget through the heavy-handed use of Obamacare DEATH PANELS: "We will slow the growth of Medicare costs by strengthening an independent commission of doctors, nurses, medical experts and consumers who will look at all the evidence and recommend the best ways to reduce unnecessary spending while protecting access to the services that seniors need."

Problem with Obama's reelection campaign is that the independents continue to catch on that Obama is a pathological liar, mean and petty as well NOW he gets caught "off mike" complaining the Presidential phone system lacks a large screen TV?

Beverly, yes I did see the pirate. It was adorable wasn't it?

joe, "typical brown-shirted fascist thug..."

I can hardly believe you wrote something like that about someone you don't even know. You and your ilk need a history lesson. A real one. Not from the radio or television. Maybe the next time you'll vote a little smarter. Instead of taking us all down the tubes with your ignorance.

Pat, another observation about this President: With all the debt issues going on you would think the President would stay at home, focus on getting a 'deal' between the parties to address the crisis we have with our debt, but NO! This guy takes off for two weeks to 'raise money' for his reelection! To hell with the country, let's just focus on getting me reelected'! What a bunch of crap....shows the 'true character' of the President. And then we have the President who feels Ryan's plan is 'too radical', but refuses to address the real issue facing us, 'ENTITLEMENTS'. The President's position...let's just raise taxes, limit cuts as much as possible, and continue to spend money we don't have. Got news for this fool....'hope is not a strategy'.

And the GOP closes the House for two weeks preventing any congessional work from being done. After all the poor teabaggers need to return home for a vacation or resume campaign contributions efforts to get ready for next year's elections. Yet, they have done nothing at all to create jobs as they promised.

Obama's $2 BILLION reelection campaign will be financed by Saudi Arabia they just LOVE OBAMA strangling US domestic oil production and jacking up the price of gasoline to $5.00 / Gallon

According to Obama's EPA $20 - 30/ gallon gasoline is "optimal" because at those prices solar and wind turbine alternative energy sources start to become cost effective without government subsidies

This is the problem putting so much raw money, coercive and rulemaking power into the hands of unelected bureaucrats answerable to no one but Obama behind closed doors basically resulting in our country being run like Detroit for special interest groups but not hard working citizens

________________________________________________________________________________________

"Under my plan energy prices necessarily will skyrocket" -- Barrack Obama

Does the "NJ" stand for New Jersey?

If so, you governor is considered a THUG by people in your state. Except by the guys of course. Probably the white stupid NJ guys. Congratulations.

President Obama is on the road and you don't like it. Why? Not because of any "deal". But because people love going out to see him. You big baby. sniff sniff. Where is President Obama?!

Meanwhile, Christie is considered a THUG.

Pat, another observation about this President: With all the debt issues going on you would think the President would stay at home, focus on getting a 'deal' between the parties to address the crisis we have with our debt, but NO! This guy takes off for two weeks to 'raise money' for his reelection!

Well, NJ John, it is kinda hard to 'stay at home and focus on a deal' when the CONGRESS IS ON A 2-WEEK BREAK!!

You FORGOT about that, didn't you?

You would think that with all of the debt issues that the CONGRESS would at least be in SESSION so that we can reach a deal, wouldn't we?

But don't let any facts get in your way, NJ John.

Carry on.

Pietro...'thanks, I will'!! See, that's the trouble with you liberals...you can't think outside the liberal view! Yes, I do know that congress is on vacation! My point is 'so what'! What I'd like to see is the President stay at home, work on a compromise plan with his advisors (not on vacation), call the leaders of both parties and have them come back to Washington for a 'true meeting' to discuss options, postions, ect so that when the 'congress' does return from vacation, they can deal with the deficit immediately with a bi-partisian plan. It's call 'leadership' Pietro!

A Colorado man with a felony record is accused of swiping a backpack from Lambeau Field while collecting signatures to recall Democratic Sen. Dave Hansen of Green Bay.

The man was working for the Republican Party on March 17 when he took a backpack and coat containing keys and cell phones belonging to a couple who had been taking pictures at Lambeau Field, according to a Green Bay Police Department report.
According to Colorado records, the man has been charged with a number of crimes in his home state, including driving under the influence, domestic violence and felony assault and was found guilty of drugging a victim in 2008. another felony convicted criminal thug hired by the Greedy Old People/Tax Evading American Party to commit crimes against the good citizens of wisconsin. this thug was on the clock being paid when he commited the crimes. i wonder how many more out of state thugs there were that didn't get caught. and aren't all the recalls for the dems put on by out of state rethug organizations you know this thug from colorado, with his record, will be hired by scott walker for an 81,000 dollar position. heck with this thugs record, he could be the next tom delay, and head up the rethug party, that is until tom finishes his "dancing behind bars" gig.

NJ John - I had to laugh at your 'response' to my post.

Funny how you are holding the President to this 'standard' but you fail to hold the Congress - the people who the President has to deal with - to the same standard to get some work done regarding the budget.

I find that interesting.

They are on a 2-week recess... so where is the outrage?

Where is the consternation towards the Congress?

Faux outrage really makes me laugh, NJ John.

Carry on.

GOP State Senator Randy Hopper directing callers to phone sex line......Among the Republican State Senators of Wisconsin currently being recalled is Senator Randy Hopper. The same Senator Hopper who was discovered to be living with a young mistress, ra

GOP State Senator Randy Hopper directing callers to phone sex line......Among the Republican State Senators of Wisconsin currently being recalled is Senator Randy Hopper. The same Senator Hopper who was discovered to be living with a

Change is a coming. The Republican-Tea Baggers, are going to be packing their bags and going home.

RVZ,

Thank you for your post!! I'm glad that someone realizes the reality on the topic!

Thanks again!

Thanks again Pietro, I will! What is a laugh is your inability to grasp the concept of leadership. And Yes, since Obama was elected the President of the US I do hold him or any other President to a higher standard than congress. Can't get much lower ratings than congress wouldn't you agree. And by the way, I don't recall giving 'congess a pass' in my comments. 'Someone' has to LEAD or do you think both parties will give up their views easily, I doubt it. The point being Obama is always talking about his 'vision for the future' and what he want's to do, and ''he's the man' to fundamentall change America'. You do remember that pledge right!

All I'm asking is that he 'walks the talk'. You seem to have a problem with that?

And Pat....WTF! What does your post about Gov Christi have to do with this discussion? Are you so childish that you have to divert the topic to something else and then give me the 'boo-hoo' crap rather than submit a valid comment? Finally, I guess you would prefer to have the President out so 'people can see him' rather than him doing the country's work! You don't think the people of the US don't see him enough? When you grow up Pat, come back and join the conversation.

NJ John, in this day and age why would he have to stay home to make those calls?

What is a laugh is your inability to grasp the concept of leadership. And Yes, since Obama was elected the President of the US I do hold him or any other President to a higher standard than congress. Can't get much lower ratings than congress wouldn't you agree. And by the way, I don't recall giving 'congrass a pass' in my comments.

See, now NJ John is blowing chunks. You think that the President should 'sit by and wait' for Congress to DECIDE to come back in session so that the President can 'initiate' getting something done?

You may be stupid, but the rest of us are not.

Your idea of 'leadership' is a canard and unrealistic. Really. And you think you can come on here touting the 'leadership' party line with this as an example?

Try again.

And now, to further embarass you, I will take your own words to prove that even you do not know what you are talking about or posting.

Remember when you posted (as I highlighted in my snippet above) that you did NOT give Congress a 'pass', as you stated in your own words: And by the way, I don't recall giving 'congrass a pass' in my comments.

Well, Peep this:

See, that's the trouble with you liberals...you can't think outside the liberal view! Yes, I do know that congress is on vacation! My point is 'so what'!

Gee... that sounds like - and looks like - a 'pass' to me.

Amazing thing, these internets. We use it so we can spot a troll and a mile away, trying to argue with his foot in his mouth and egg on his face.

Care for a wet nap to wipe off that egg?

Beverly in Chicago I saw the video, it was great. I understand that a lot of the tea party rallies are getting that way too. I wonder if the republican party is paying attention? Probably not, they seem mind set in running their agenda regardless.

The part I find hard to believe is that they still believe in the trickle down theory. American business is posting huge profits, and they have had massive tax cuts for almost 10 years. So where are the jobs? In 2010 alone, American business invested 200+ billions of dollars in overseas markets. According to the GOP's theory that money should have been invested in the United States, creating jobs here. This is why Warren Buffett has said that this theory does not create jobs. The so-called world economy makes it obsolete.

Warren Buffett was also puzzled why he pays a less percentage of income tax, then what his secretary does. This was also brought up by Bill Gates' father to congress in 2001, when they were discussing the Bush tax cuts.

The main difference between George Soros and the Koch brothers is that Soros uses his billions to support policies and programs that help the majority of people in the US. Policies that are good for the middle class and the poor, sometimes counter to the interests of the billionaires, of which he is one. The Koch brothers, on the other hand, promote only their own interests and those of other billionaires and big corporations. I consider that a huge defining difference.

1. What would you call a political party whose ideology is based on sexism as documented by their attacks on women’s reproductive rights and current legislation is a dozen States that violate the SCOTUS decision that gave women the control of their own reproductive rights. How about a party that thinks men are worth more proved by blocking an equal pay for equal work bill? What about the rhetoric degrading single mothers?

2. What would you call a party the practices “Religious Intolerance” by holding McCarthy style hearings cloaked in National Security to target one religios group (Muslims) while totally ignoring others that in fact had twice as many terror plots recorded?

3. What would you call a party that is against unions and collective bargaining? What do you all a party that wants to deny the middle class a fair wage driving them into poverty and subservience to the richest 2%?

4. What would you call a party that wants to destroy basically every social program that is designed to help the middle class and those of modest means? Programs like Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, making quality education available to everybody, food and shelter to those in need, medical research, food and product safety, national security etc ? This is the path to a “Class Based Society”.

5. What would you call a party that is anti-gay rights as documented by their opposition to DODT, denying these people the rights to marriage, adopting children? What would you call a party that thinks this group are second class citizens and are not entitled to the same rights as other Americans?

6. What would you call a party that wants the power and wealth to be controlled by 2% or less, of the population of this country and make the other 98% pay for benefits of the top 2%? Slavery has been abolished, what do you call a party that in effect wants to bring it back? This is documented by the new Ryan Bill that cuts and/or destroys middle class programs while giving huge tax cuts to the top 2%. It is called an “Oligarchy”.

7. What do you call a party that wants to take one of our basic rights away called “the Right to Vote” for our elected officials? 22 GOP controlled States are trying to change voter registration laws to disenfranchise millions from their right to vote. They want new Bither laws that do the same. Some even want to repeal the 17^th Amendment. We have one State now MI, that does not have a governor, they have a “King” who can wipe out towns with a stroke of his “quill” and other municipalities by declaring them insolvent, firing their elected officials and sending the EFM (Elite Foreign Masters) to take over control, laying off or even firing teachers, fire fighters, police, all social services and void current contract. They can even dissolve the town charter merging them with a neighbor like they are doing currently in MI. What do you call a party that demands that kind of power over it citizens?

And this ideology continues. What do you call a party that has the above framework as their political ideology (agenda)? It sure as he!! is not American or Democracy as we know it. Currently they call themselves the GOP/TP I think they are really something else. Just asking, what moniker should we attach to people that have this ideology??

I call it a party out of the middle ages. No kidding. They make me sick.

Great post US Navy.

Wow Navy. This is GREAT.

Dang, US Navy, you are on FIRE today!!

Excellent Post.

US Navy:

Glad you asked that question. NO, NO, a thousand times NO, you would NOT call them Republicans. You would not refer to them as conservatives. The Chinese have an excellent adage, "The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their proper name."

In answer to your question: You would call those people - TOTALITARIANS. True Republicans don't advocate for the government involving itself in privacy issues. True Republicans understand the purpose of the Bill of Rights. True Republicans are alive and well, but their collective voice of reason is drowned by the constant screaming of the ideologues, dogmatics, and lunatics who have stormed the G.O.P.

Again, the people to whom you refer are TOTALITARIANS. They are not conservatives. Hell, there are conservatives in both parties. Conservatism cuts across party lines. These folks don't advocate for unrestrained spending. These folks understand the need for government. For crying out loud, Eisenhower promoted the Interstate highway system and warned of the Military-Industrial complex. Nixon opened the door for environmental regulation and stopped pretending China didn't exist.

No, these people are TOTALITARIANS. They are the lunatics who burned witches. They are the lunatics who gave us McCarthy. They are the Luddites, they are the Know-Nothings. They are a cancer in the Republican Party. They are the enemy of democracy, and they are the enemy of this Republic.

What ever happened to discussions about the article? Oh, just another opinion being stated that takes away from the real problem. Now, it is time for the Repubs to spew their opinion and how stupid the demo's are. Yup that will help as much as the demo's opinion of the repubs that was just stated. The Debt people is serious and this partisan approach is exactly what is wrong with Washington. Lets us try and be part of the solution, not the problem..............................

There are no lies in my post. All you have to do is look at the voting records of the GOP on legislation. Look at what the 22 GOP/TP controlled States are doing with their proposed legislation and what they have passed.

Some of you are pretty free with calling people a liar. Prove that what I posted is not true. Show me where the GOP did not oppose DODT, did not block the equal pay for equal work. Show that a group of Stats have not passed abortion laws that violate the Rowe vs Wade decision of SCOTUS. Show me that the King hearing did not happen. Show me that the King of Michigan did not just go into Benton Harbor with his EFM troops. Show me proof that there are no tax cuts for the rich in Ryan's Bill and that he is not trashing Medicare and Medicaid.

Show me the proof of why my post is all lies. Until you do that I am going to call you less than honest.

People born in the United States who are not felons do have the right to vote. Republicans-Tea Baggers don't want people to vote. They really don't want the poor or people of color to vote.

There have been less than 40 cases of voter fraud.

Joe - 3041821

That is a lie. You really must learn the difference between voter registration fraud and voter fraud.

Excellent post, US Navy. The country is being sold to big business and the rich by conservative legislators and governors and most conservatives are busy voting against abortion, for prayer in school, and small government without ever knowing that it is a "sting operation", a front for taking away conservative middle American's rights, too, not just liberals' rights and the Koch brothers, and other wealthy, powerful people are headed to the bank on the backs of those same conservative voters who fail to pay attention to the policies enacted not the ones discussed.

Like I said, there have been less than 40 cases of voter fraud. Look it up on Fact check.

fact check?? LOL that liberal propoganda site?

You know Navy,

Some of the things you say are true--from you vantage point.

But maybe we should ask you some questions.

Is it the responsibility of the government to pay for women to either have the pill?

It is the responsibility of the government to allow them the right to choose--but not the right of the federal government to pay for it.

I agree with your point about equal pay for women--that is a no brainer? There should be a federal law that requires this, as long as the jobs are the same.

What would you call a party that wants to destroy basically every social program that is designed to help the middle class and those of modest means? Programs like Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, making quality education available to everybody, food and shelter to those in need, medical research, food and product safety, national security etc ? This is the path to a “Class Based Society”.

Your statement above--when did it become the government's job to take care of people with socialized programs. Oh that is right, when Democratic leaders decided that people shouldn't take care of themselves and they the "Elite" "Educated" knew better. That attitude is what got the Democratic party thrown out of the House last November. You do realize that a majority of people don't believe in a "nanny state".

Do people want protections against hard times--we all do. Do these programs work--No--because there is so much fraud and waste--especially when they take up 43% of the budget. Can the be reformed--so that they work--they could--but not with our Washington elite--on either side of the aisle. Because they are all controlled by the money of the backers.

Have you and I had talking points on this subject--Yes, and sometimes we agree. But you are acting like others on here--putting anyone that disagrees with you into a category. The more you do that, the less respect you earn.

Work with me my friend to find solutions--that is what we should all be doing.

Great post USN. While it would take all day to prove all of your points as valid (even though they are), I can take a few minutes to prove one of them;

What would you call a party that is against unions and collective bargaining? What do you all a party that wants to deny the middle class a fair wage driving them into poverty and subservience to the richest 2%?

It's absolutely their intention to destroy the middle class;

HIGHER UNEMPLOYMENT AND LOWER WAGES -- ON PURPOSE.... About a month ago, I described the Republican economic plan as "higher unemployment, lower wages, and slower growth." It's worth appreciating the fact that (a) I meant that literally; and (b) occasionally, GOP officials will acknowledge their intentions.

Tim Fernholz and Jim Tankersley reported this week on a little-noticed report distributed by House Speaker John Boehner's (R-Ohio) office last week, summarizing the findings of the Republican staff of the Joint Economic Committee.

[T]he paper predicts that cutting the number of public employees would send highly skilled workers job hunting in the private sector, which in turn would lead to lower labor costs and increased employment. But "lowering labor costs" is economist-speak for lowering wages -- does the GOP want to be in the position of advocating for lower wages for voters who work in the private sector?

Remember, independent economists, including some who have no sympathies for Democrats, have said the Republican spending cuts, if approved, would lead to roughly 700,000 job losses. (Told about making unemployment worse, John Boehner replied, "So be it.")

But the GOP plan isn't just to increase layoffs, at least in the short term, it's also to intended to make sure Americans are earning less money.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2011_03/028650.php

Plenty of other proof is available to show that your post is correct...I don't see anyone trying to prove you wrong.

More voter fraud charges filed amid concerns over voter intimidation

by Elizabeth Dunbar, Minnesota Public Radio

October 26,

St. Paul, Minn. — Hennepin County's top prosecutor said Tuesday that 47 people will be charged with voter fraud stemming from the 2008 general election.

Look it up Joe. Fact check any site, What's wrong? Does the truth hurt?

A readers digest version of any/all of this navy guy's postings:

Dems good & Reps bad.

joe-3041821,
So you will be one of the last to join us at the gulage.

First They came... - Pastor Martin Niemoller
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Big Bear:

Here's a few of the paragraphs that immediately follow your cut and paste:

"St. Paul, Minn. — Hennepin County’s top prosecutor said Tuesday that 47 people will be charged with voter fraud stemming from the 2008 general election.

Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman said 43 of the cases involve felons who were ineligible to vote, and four cases involve double voting. Thirteen of the cases had been announced previously.

Freeman said the voter fraud cases represent a tiny fraction of all ballots cast in the 2008 general election, which is when President Barack Obama was elected. He also said that despite the charges, investigators didn’t find evidence of people working together to commit voter fraud. (My italics)

“There was no organized or coordinated effort to induce improper voting. There was no involvement of any campaign or any candidate. And there were no cases charged of non-citizens improperly voting,” Freeman said.

The charges came after a group called Minnesota Majority raised concerns about voter fraud in Minnesota. The group contacted the Hennepin County Attorney’s Office last year with a list of more than 1,250 names of people accused of voter fraud. At least 800 of those were accused of voting as felons.

Of those, Freeman said there was enough evidence to charge 47 of them."

Please note it does not cite party affiliation. Who knows? They might be Republican.

Joe lotsa numbers:

Voter fraud and voter registration fraud - a distinction without a difference, you say. Try this picture. You're a hotshot defense attorney, and you explain to the judge that your client is not guilty of embezzlement. The judge says, "Joe, your client is charged with first-degree murder." You say, "Hey, come on your Honor. They're both felonies, a distinction without a difference. You're quibbling."

The law draws many distinctions. Merely because you don't like them - or more likely don't understand them - doesn't mean there are no genuine differences.

Fact check? A liberal propaganda site? Where is it you go to check your facts? Only those sites that support your point of view? Why don't you show us the site that says there's no difference between voter registration fraud and voter fraud?

David,

They did file charges on 47 people, our friends at the top, said that there were only 40 cases in the US. I read the entire article. At one time they had over 1100 complaints, turned in over 450, narrowed it down to 47.

Job1's Post

There have been less than 40 cases of voter fraud.

And he used "fact check". Doesn't bode well for Fact Check. Maybe he should Google "voter fraud cases" Not a ton of voter fraud cases, but I would bet there are more than 40 that have had charges filed against them.

I forgot about Fl. in 2000. You know when President Elect Gore got ripped off. I stick by the Facts. Republicans_Tea Baggers don't want people to vote.

@RVZ555

There are plenty of lies in your post, Old Navy. You use that age-old trick of trying to turn your opinions into fact-and then you present them as such. It's the old "you love dogs so that means you are a cat hater!" routine.

If I had more time (I'm busy making tax money for my liberal government), I'd go thru point by point and show you. But then, that might make me a nazi.

RVZ you very rarely have anything worthwhile to add to this blog, just another pathetic attempt to redirect. The fact is you know good and well that what Navy said is true and you just don't like it. Quit pouting.

Here is a typical RVZ post; misinterpret, attack and offer excuse as to why he cannot offer rebuttal now. The fact is you cannot rebut fact. you are entitled to your own beliefs, but not your own facts.

I could explain it to you, but I cannot understand it for you.

Big Bear:

Agreed. I was trying to make several points. First, there is a serious distinction between voter fraud and voter registration fraud. Second, the constant attack on ACORN is unwarranted. Third, being charged is not the same as being convicted.

Some of us tend to get a little sloppy in these fora. For myself, I did use "voter fraud" in search blocks, and surprise of surprises, the media are just as sloppy as posters. They use voter fraud - in many cases - interchangeably with voter registration fraud.

You know the first three rules of journalism: 1. Accuracy, 2. Accuracy, 3. Clarity. But why bother when ideology and dogma are at stake, right? (I'm not pointing the finger at you by the way.)

There are few who will admit to error here, although it seems to me the left is a bit more willing to do so than the right. There is far too much partisanship. I mean, come on, isn't it quite a stretch if you are on the right, to insist that the left can't get anything correct, and if you are on the left, to insist that the right is always wrong.

Gosh. Hard to understand why Congress doesn't get anything of importance accomplished.

I'd have gotten back to you sooner, but I had to get some watermelon plants in the ground. My bride loves watermelon. Can't go wrong with a happy bride.

Happy wife, Happy life, David!

Good post. I have fought this battle before. The narrative gets stuck on talking points and everyone forgets why we were arguing. Except that I'm right. universally.

LOL

No more taxes, period. We must live with in our means. We do it in my house we must do it at the Federal level. Cut. Cut. Cut. Equal cuts across the board, then go after the real porkers, defense, entitlements, welfare. Their is plenty of revenue if truth in taxation is established, Close the amazing amount of loopholes that Corps and the rich get away with. NO LOOPHOLES OBAMA.

Dump that mess of a health Care bill and get a unicare system in place with a one payer system. One that Congress must use. Again no Loopholes or exceptions OBAMA. Get the disabled off SS and put them on welfare. SS is for those who contributed and now need it for retirement.

Independents for the repeal of Obama and his health Care mess.

PSC:

How true, I saw the video. His own so called people are booing him. The MSM gives him kudos for standing there. Not a mention that the people, who are supposed to be his base, we challenging his DRACONIAN rhetoric and telling him NO.

Great post, I doubt we will see the video on MSM though. FOX will spin it as "democrats infiltrate GOP rally". Just watch.

Hi Patrick,

Ed showed it last night. Give them Hell Ed.

you actually watch sargeant schulz?? at least he has one viewer...LOL

Morning US. Last summer we had wall to wall coverage of Tea Party disruptions at congressional town hall meetings, mostly organized by partisan groups and in some cases people bussed in from outside the district. Here we have a genuine group of constituents outraged at their congressman, and for the pundits its a big yawn.

Lawrence O'Donnell as well spent a lot of time on the differences between Ryan's Town Hall and President Obama's Town Hall. Kudo's to those who attended Ryan's Town Hall. They challenged him. They are obviously unhappy with him.

The Obama Diary: President Obama took the stage at Masonic Auditorium at 8:53 p.m. to a standing, screaming ovation from the 2,500 or so people who’d waited hours to see him…

Night and Day.

This was the most important political news story of the day yesterday. Coupled with the abysmal poll numbers the proposal is receiving, FR's omission is astonishing.

Job1. and Pat. Yes I watched both, sadly however Joe, and other teabaggers who would benifit most by hearing what they had to say, would be watching Trump-like reality shows by that time of night.

Pat, Boston: "The Obama Diary: President Obama took the stage at Masonic Auditorium at 8:53 p.m. to a standing, screaming ovation from the 2,500 or so people who’d waited hours to see him…"

But Pat.....was there swooning? How will NoJoe lampoon if the loons didn't swoon?

(Sorry, some guy on the birther thread yesterday got me started on this rhyming thing and now I can't stop!)

He is on the air and old Glenn is leaving.

One telling moment in the Ryan video was the republican constituent who, after talking about the GOP's unwillingness to increase taxes on the rich and cutting medicare, said--"we're wrong"..... meaning his republican party is wrong. Another was Ryan mentioned we can't "redistribute" wealth and the participants were supporting some redistribution.

Yes, I bet that Obama didn't have any unfriendly people in there. All were supporters, no one asking the tough questions. They had seen the video of him scolding the reporter in Houston. Heck, if they questioned him to hard, those people would probably just--better not say it.

BigBear

Why would a kazillionaire like Zuckerberg want his taxes raised? Or for that matter to wear a tie and jacket?

Kinda clever how last year when republicans booed the health care plan at town hall meetings they were plants, obviously not reflective of the will of the people, etc. But when Ryan is booed it's clearly something to celebrate. Say what you will about my politics but I'm generally pretty consistent. The constant spin from the left could actually be a spectacular new source for green energy.

Clara

No one needs their taxes raised--the tax code needs to be reformed to end the limitless amount of write offs and deductions and loopholes.

But a "kazillionaire"--please the dude is only worth 13.5 billion. He couldn't even donate enough to pay the foreign aid package in the last budget;)

The guy came up with a great idea, expanded on it, made his money. He can wear what ever he darn well pleases as long as he is not breaking the laws of the land.

Why would Warren Buffet want his taxes raised? Nobody--except for our President, wants to raise taxes. But raising taxes will only hurt you and me, not the rich. Because of the tax code, they will have someone hide all of their money and they will still pay a lower percentage/yet more dollars than us regular folk.

BB

Sorry my hyperbole was 'lost' on you. It was the comment about the room full of friendlies that lent me to exaggerate.

It harkened back to the days of Loyalty Pledges,...

Over 70% of TEA PARTIERS alone want to raise taxes on the wealthy. So, yeah, plenty of people want the taxes RETURNED to the Pre-Firesale rates of the 90's. I don't see it as a tax hike; but rather an END of the sale. Sales can't go on forever,...eventually you run out of inventory. Just my take on it.

Big Bear

I seem to recall certain previous politicians who would not allow anyone from the other party to attend their functions. At least Obama does not ask to see voter registration cards or party affiliation.

Rachel showed the video of Ryan's town hall on her show too. I don't watch far right media, but I do seem to remember seeing a lot of video of the angry tea party town hall meetings a while back on MSNBC and the Huffington Post I would bet we don't see Ryan's town hall meeting on FoxNews either.

"Say what you will about my politics but I'm generally pretty consistent."

So back when George Bush and his Republican controlled Congress were turning the largest surplus of all times into the largest deficit of all times, not paying for two wars, not paying for their massive new entitlement program and in general spending money like drunken sailors on a weekend pass, you were all concerned and would up over deficit spending??

first of all, the surplus was because both parties had to work together to accomplish it. Two you cannot just Obama's wild spending spree with, well the president before it did it.

You are right newday. Earlier this week Ryan returned to his home district in Wisconsin and received a bucket full of grief from his constituents. They were not happy that Ryan wanted to mess with their Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.

Ryan's conservative ideology does not fit in his home district or anywhere else for that matter.

Ron: as people wake up to exactly what is contained in Ryan's plan...I think there will be a mass rejection of it.

The CONman tools of the corporate elitists, like Ryan, are afraid of being exposed as such. When the revolution begins they fear that they will be its first targets rather than the wealthy interests that they have been dutifully serving.

Thin skinned! Yeah!!! And so dour, he looks like he's gonna die of terminal constipation!

Q. How do you know Paul Ryan's having an orgasm?

A. He loses the frown!

NDD:

I agree with Ron.

The "Sleeper has Awaken" Over two thirds of the people do not want Medicare, Medicaid or Social Security destroyed.

Ryan's plan does not address the problems with Health Care, namely the costs. It only shifts the problem to the elderly or the States. We should be looking at the cause of the problem like the monopolies of the Health Insurance Companies, Drug Companies and medical device manufactures. These are the people that are driving up the overall HealthCare costs. NOT the people on Medicare and Medicaid. It is not the programs that have the major impact although the waste, fraud, redundancy, and bad programs do need to weeded out as well, we also need to address the cause of the problem. Nobody is doing that.

It would be nice to see Ryan lose his seat in the next election.

As people become more aware of what is contained in that plan...Ryan may have some difficulties with his constituents. I wish that someone would explain to me why the Republicans hate the middle class and working poor as much as they do.

Thin skinned Ryan?? Hahaha, did you see the prez bless out a interviewer for asking a question that wasn't scripted? Love to see this prez against a rabid press that Bush was faced with!! He would be crying himself to sleep every night! hahahaha

the serfs of the government don't like having their gravy train interrupted.

The true Americans do not like seeing their democracy being stomped on and we are starting to fight back. The only question I have is did we wait too long and will we continue to oppose the tyranny that the far right is trying to push on us?

We will see in 2012

"Our President" will be re-elected and we my even take back controll of the House as well.

2012 Send Ryan home.

USN LOL yeah we sure will...when THE PEOPLE..not the fascist union thugs...take back the senate and the presidency.

Act2

I can hardly wait for the play to be over,...but just a little FACT check on your false accusation:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2011/04/obama-to-reporter-let-me-finish-my-answers-next-time-/1

Anyone else notice the GOP/TP aren't making any sense this morning, or less sense than usual.

GOTP is now tap dancing on the third rail and it is starting to burn! Attacking Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security? Talk about dumba$$es!

I say let 'em crash they bought their tickets they knew what they were getting into!

Act2: "Love to see this prez against a rabid press that Bush was faced with!!"

I'll assume you're referring to President George H.W. Bush, who, while I may not have agreed with his policies, could generally answer a question in complete sentences and you knew aftwerwards what his point was - unlike George W. Bush, who constantly looked like a deer in the headlights and answered even the most serious question posed to him with that same inappropriate smirk and then answered in rambling random sentence fragments that kept David Letterman supplied with monologue material for years.

And the whole time he was in office, I thought he was getting about the biggest free pass from the press of any President in history. I guess rabidity is in the eye of the beholder, huh?

Clara - Thanks for the link - remind you at all of that O'Reilly interruptus mess at the Super Bowl?

Mo:

Yep, especially one that needs his diaper changed.

NDD, so true. It seems nearly all republican politicians or wannabees are thin skinned. The minute the President criticizes their policies (not them personally they way they do him), they head to the nearest microphone and start with the phoney outrage, expressing their hurt feelings. They behave like bullies but when someone stands up to them, they run to the press and whine.

And where is the President's plan to cut the waste and fraud from these social welfare programs?

7 pages of outlined ideas.

We have 2 so called plans, now is when they should be taking the best parts of both, compromising, trying to meet somewhere that will make all "nanny state" people happy, while providing protection for the government to stay fiscally sound.

especially one that needs his diaper changed.

is this what you expect the government to do for all of us down the road?

I think it's still too early to tell who will be the Republican nominee. Don't forget, Sarah Palin was sprung on us three weeks before the election. Republicans are looking for a demagogue these days, not a traditional leader.

Amy, 'whoever' the Repubs run, 'anyone' would be better than the current person in the WH!

"It would be nice to see Ryan lose his seat in the next election"

A whole lot of Wisconsin Republicans are going to be in that boat. Some of the local ones probably won't make it to the next election but will be recalled much earlier.

Agree 100%, Jody. If Vilsack does run against King, he may have to actually participate in a debate for the first time in his career, and I would not expect that experience to go well for him.

Interestingly, he seems to be taking Vilsack lightly, so far; I hope he continues to do so, it would be in keeping with his character.

the truth is the liberals are the foaming-at-the-mouth screaming mobs...unlike the lie the left-wing wackos propogate about the tea party.

the truth is the liberals are the foaming-at-the-mouth screaming mobs...unlike the lie the left-wing wackos propogate about the tea party.

It all depends on whose ox is gored, doesn't it? And from the way you're screaming, you're ox got gored REAL bad.

lets see the liberals lied about the racism of the tea party, especially those black congressman saying they heard racial epithats...despicable lies.

where did my ox get gored? you lost the WI supreme court race...all those lies and all that money, and you still lost...

Poor little baby is throwing a temper tantrum. I guess he did not hear about the latest bunch of e-mails from the right showing "Our President" as a chimpanzee. I guess he did not see those signs of "Our President" dressed up as Hitler, painted with a bone in his nose or hanging from a tree. I guess he stills believes the King hearings never happened. A hearing that was cloaked in "National Security and Terrorism" blaming one religious group of color as well of being the major proponent of terroristactivity completely ignoring that 2/3 of the terrorist plots that were track by the FBI, CIA etc, had nothing to do with Muslims. And the list goes on.

I ask who is the liar here???

USN I'm sure you were upset by the libs calling bush 'chimp' and portraying him as hitler...and all the death threats he received from you unhinged libs....right.

oh and your claim about terrorism is so much BS...you take the data from the last 40 years of so..instead of the last 15....figures lie and liars figure.

Just how in the hell does anyone in here know those were actually that man's constituents. The problem is you don't. People go to town halls all of the time just to start she-i-t. I would say probably most of those people didn't vote for Ryan in the first place. Those idiots came in there with anti-Ryan signs. There agenda was already set when they walked in the door. That whole scenario was coordinated by some lefty group.

If Obama is so great and everyone supposebly just loves the ground he walks on; lets see him go speak at a Tea Party rally.

Some one earlier predicted this is what the GOP/TP would say about the Ryan take down at his town hall "That whole scenario was coordinated by some lefty group" congratulations ITM your the first and you won't be the last.

I will be flogged for mentioning this but you can get a good right leaning slant on what is going on at the Daily Caller. They carry most all stories even if they are unable to give it a right slant. It is up to the reader to pick up fact from fiction but they don't just ignore a story because it does not fit a certain narrative. They have a story on Janet Napolitano and her fairy tale that everything is lovely on the border, Issa and his trying to get data on the Fast and Furious story and many others that are just ignored here. Maybe they are just not considered political enough but I like to read them. P.S. They even have the latest on Sarah if you have been missing her.

TIM:

Just how in the hell does anyone in here know those were actually that man's constituents.

Just how did anyone know whether all the shrieking tea baggers last year were constituents of the Congress members they were trying to intimidate?

But whether or not the people booing Ryan were behaving as badly as the teabaggers is besides the point I was making. The shouting tea baggers were covered devotedly by the corporate media while the same media seems be studiously ignoring the people who expressed their dislike of Ryan's tax cuts for the rich. If it weren't for the evening programs on MSNBC, I wouldn't have ever known about Ryan's disastrous town hall. Why is the "serious" media not covering this? I think we all know the answer.

houston: nice lie, you do that quite often.

joe-3041821

houston: nice lie, you do that quite often.

You don't even say what "lie" iyou accuse me of. You really are a jerk.

From my vantage point, they are all crooks.

Last year, I took a government class to listen to a House of Representative member speak to his voters. There were NO Tea Party Members there, just regular people. Including 26 to be voters in the next elections.

Each formed their own questions--for a grade--to be asked. They did ask their questions, the Representative answered them like any other politician. We went back the class room, discussed the entire town hall meeting. They wondered why there were no easy straight forward answers, especially to the ones that were "yes/no" answers.

Needless to say that person does not represent that part of the country any more. Voted out, by the his own people.

Sad to say, they are all politicians, will say anything to get elected and stay elected. They love the taxpayers dime.

USN I'm sure you were upset by the libs calling bush 'chimp' and portraying him as hitler.

So what you're saying is two wrongs make a right??

Nash:

Kudos, I would like to see the answers to those questions as well.

I don't know why the democrats find the truth so threatening...I guess its just easier to believe the lies...the government will take care of you...

lets just take one of your lies...

Ryan said this afternoon at the National Press Club that the only reason a Congressional Budget Office letter claims the national health care law will reduce the deficit--i.e. bring in more revenue through tax hikes and Medicare cuts than it spends on Obamacare--is because "the books have been severely cooked"--not by the CBO but by the Democrats who wrote the bill.

"CBO has to score what you put in front of them," Ryan explained. "And if you put a bill in front of them that ignores the discretionary cost of the $115 billion you need to spend to run this new Obamacare program, that double counts the Medicare savings, that double counts the CLASS Act revenue, that double counts the Social Security revenue, that does not count the "Doc Fix"--you add all that stuff up, net it out, we're talking about a $701 billion hole--deficit."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/paul-ryan-actually-obamacare-will-increase-budget-deficit-700-billion-over-10-years_526794.htm

Nashville, it's all entertainment. It's why Chris Matthews now wants Trump to run for the presidency. He puts some "spark" into the presidential election next year. An election that will have dire consequences on our future. Of which Chris needn't worry about. These guys get huge paychecks. At least Lawrence and Keith and Rachel give a ### about our country and know full well that the GOP is made up of nothing but a bunch of money grubbing anti-American thieves.

People like Matthews are looking for entertainment. Which is what Palin provided. Doesn't matter how bright you are or aren't. They're in it for the spectacle.

It was a week ago that Matthews was doing after Trump. He has had a turnaround. Just like that. Presidencies are not about entertainment.

joe:

As always, the CBO is only right when it agrees with you. So I assume any savings the CBO finds from the Ryan "budget plan" *wink, wink* is cooked too, right?

Uh huh.

P.S. If there are any sincere folks out there who actually are interested in how Health Care Reform reduces health care costs and the deficit, Google an article titled "How Health Care Reform Reduces the Deficit in 5 Not-So-Easy Steps".

Nashville: tell me were the cost projections on medicare right?

the only medical plan that the government has that came in under budget is the bush prescription plan, because it relies on the free market...

the only way obamacare will reduce the deficit is by withholding care to old people...google IPAB

or take obama's own word for it...he said just give the old people a pain pill...instead of medical care.

Joe:

This is an excerpt from an article titled"

Critics Still Wrong on What's Driving Deficits in Coming Years
Economic Downturn, Financial Rescues, and Bush-Era Policies Drive the Numbers

Just two policies dating from the Bush Administration — tax cuts and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan — accounted for over $500 billion of the deficit in 2009 and will account for almost $7 trillion in deficits in 2009 through 2019, including the associated debt-service costs. (The prescription drug benefit enacted in 2003 accounts for further substantial increases in deficits and debt, which we are unable to quantify due to data limitations.) These impacts easily dwarf the stimulus and financial rescues. . .

and then there is this form March 2004:

Bush Administration Ordered Medicare Plan Cost Estimates Withheld

The government's top expert on Medicare costs was warned that he would be fired if he told key lawmakers about a series of Bush administration cost estimates that could have torpedoed congressional passage of the White House-backed Medicare prescription-drug plan.

When the House of Representatives passed the controversial benefit by five votes last November, the White House was embracing an estimate by the Congressional Budget Office that it would cost $395 billion in the first 10 years. But for months the administration's own analysts in the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services had concluded repeatedly that the drug benefit could cost upward of $100 billion more than that.

Withholding the higher cost projections was important because the White House was facing a revolt from 13 conservative House Republicans who'd vowed to vote against the Medicare drug bill if it cost more than $400 billion.

So the Bush Administration passed an unfunded prescription benefit which exploded the deficit, and withheld the actual cost projections to do so.

I rest my case.

Nash,

You're offending the pigs. Don't confuse them with citations and articles that will cause them to **gasp** think and formulate FACT based ideas or draw REAL conclusions.

Pigs don't sing. Don't annoy them. Or try to put lipstick on them.

Now they are way out in left field. The prescription drug plan was not funded and has added trillions of dollars to the deficit/budget/national debt and we are still paying for it.

Thanks for your comments Navy and Pat . . . so true that politics is a game for the wealthy pundits and politicians who are uneffected either way.

Nashville: you 'rest your case' LOL

'So the Bush Administration passed an unfunded prescription benefit which exploded the deficit, and withheld the actual cost projections to do so.'

do you libs ever tell the truth?

Four years into full operation, President George W. Bush's Medicare prescription
drug program is coming in well below its projected cost, giving hope to backers
of the new health insurance law that it, too, could beat budget
expectations.

The numbers are stark and conclusive: In 2009, the
government spent $60.8 billion on the drug benefit, or far less than the annual
$111.2 billion cost projected just five years ago, after the program was
enacted.

The lower cost - a result of slowing demand for prescription
drugs, higher use of generic drugs and fewer people signing up - has surprised
even some of the law's most pessimistic critics.

"I'm perfectly willing
to say I was wrong," said Robert Moffit, a senior fellow at the conservative
Heritage Foundation who fought the 2003 bill as an inevitable boondoggle. "I
projected these costs would go through the roof on prescription drugs. I also
did not believe private plans would come and offer their wares. Frankly, I'm
perfectly willing to say I was wrong."

http://www.newsmax.com/US/Bush--Drug--Plan--Cost/2010/08/17/id/367665

this is too easy....

joe:

What difference does it make if the costs come under the amount projected if NONE OF IT IS FUNDED?

That is like charging something because it is on sale when you DON"T HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY FOR IT!

Hello?

Is this thing on?

none of it is funded? oh you mean like Obama's deficits?

your charges are so much BS.

you don't care about the TRILLIONS of deficits your coke-headed savior has run up....hypocrisy much?

Nash:

Everything you said can be attributed to both sides. It is called POLITICS. I think some of you, mostly on the left, do not look at things through a political perspective. You want to LOVE democrat representatives instead of just looking at them as POLITICIANS.

Why do you think most policies do not go into effect immediately? Everything is based upon a PREDICTION or ASSUMPTION IF the economy, etc. works out the way they PRESUME it will.

Why do you think the majority of Congress is rich? They all do what is best for THEM.

Why are Congressmen still in D.C. that are a product of 3-4 generations past? These are the people making decisions of today with a 1960's mentality.

I can go on and on about Congress.........This is what I'm saying....Look at politics for what it is and keep ALL politicians at arm's length.

YOU and ME don't frikken matter to them. Your vote matters but that is it. You think it is a joke......Offer a Democrat about 2-3 million and see if it is turned down "for the good of democracy"..lol

Joe:

The first sign that you have lost the argument is name calling. :o)

Coke head, Joe? lol

The deficit was projected at 1.2 trillion BEFORE the President was sworn it. The CBO projected in January of this year that the deficit would be 1.5 trillion. . . that is a less than 2% increase under President Obama. . . and much of that spending was done to prevent the next Great Depression, as orchestrated by free-willing, corporate-people-rights-over-human- people- rights policies advocated by none other than the same Republican party that is now blowing smoke up our arses with a big assist from the "media".

So yeah, our discussion is officially over "joe".

Good Lawd.

Excellent questions, Nashville. Let's hope the media reads them and thinks about them. Their job is to report the facts not tabloid chatter like Donald Trump.

InTheMiddle"

"Both sides" have screwd up a lot of stuff, but "your side" ran up this deficit, after "my side" left you a surplus. And now "your side" is telling lies about where the deficit came from, and the media is helping.

That "both sides" line is just another way for you to avoid accepting responsibility for the disatrous results of the policies that you advocated.

Clara:

This thread really illustrates how true your comment was.

Jody:

I no longer naively believe that the media is looking to report the "news". They are in the "narrative" business, and the authors are those who are getting rich under the current system and want us all so confused that we keep it.

nashville: as far as name-calling, you libs are the masters of that.

and who was running congress BEFORE obama was sworn in??? oh yea the DEMOCRATS...you forgot that didnt' ya?

oh you mean all that spending that obama PROMISED would keep unemployment below 8%??? LOL

I don't blame you for running away....you're making yourself look awfully stupid....

Please provide us with a citation of the QUOTE where Obama "Promised" that the stimulus spending would keep unemployment at 8% or below.

You will FAIL, because it simply hasn't been true for all the years that you have been repeating that LIE.

RE-peat-the-lie-to-the-PUBLIC-ans, what are we to do with them?

Nash,

I think we spend too much time focusing on "tone" and "style" and very little on "substance".

At the end of the day, the simple truth is, millions of dollars are spent annually to confuse and mislead the American people.

Why is that? Because the entertainment is where the money is at. It is all based on entertainment that provides an emotional response.

What is it about the truth that is so threatening? The problem is we have 308 Million people in this country, meaning we have 308 million versions of the truth. At least I hope we all have our own opinions. Otherwise we are sheep being lead to slaughter.

Why do Americans believe that President Obama has raised their taxes when he has actually cut them? He hasn't risen them yet. But could it be coming? Who knows. As I have said before--we don't need higher rates-we need tax code reforms.

Why do Americans believe that health reform explodes the deficit when it actually reduces the deficit? No body really knows the answer to this--everything is an estimate now. But if you look at past government run social programs--where are they today--out of control and taking up 43% of the 2010 budget.

Why do Americans blame President Obama for exploding the deficit when in actuality it is Congressional Republicans still serving who did the damage? Congress is the problem, no doubt there. But it also the Democrats that are still in office. This is not just a party thing, it is a congressional thing. That is my biggest problem with people on here, they want to blame just one party--it is all of Washington--because we don't limit there terms.

Why do Americans believe that Health Care Reform is "socialism" when the majority of the plan is a Republican endorsed (before President Obama agreed of course), market based system which relies on private insurance companies? As far as health care is concerned, I love the part that tells companies they have to cover kids, pre-existing conditions. My biggest concern is the fact that the government has just told us (mandated) that we all have to purchase insurance from a "for profit" company. Who is really getting the kick backs from this little inclusion.

Why does the media allow folks to tell these lies unchallenged? Because the media needs to make money. If people are watching their shows--means they get more advertisers and more money. And again, it comes down to whose version of the truth you accept.

Who benefits from all these lies? Corporate media outlets

Who finances all of these lies?Corporations and businesses that advertise with these media outlets.

Do you really believe all these lies are told to benefit "we the people"? they benefit those that believe the version of the truth told by that certain media outlet. What is your version of "we the people"?

Do you really think that analysis of "Obama's style" is where our focus should be? What we should be worrying about is how we are going to make it til next payday. I believe that the President is an excellent speaker and motivator--I don't always agree with his policies--but haven't hated them all. But I don't think I need a care taker now. That is my impression of where this government is heading. I might need one down the road--but I hope not.

But I will tell you one thing. If it's Trump v Obama--I would probably vote for Obama, or not vote at all.

Big Bear:

Thank you for the time and the thought you put into your response.

You give me hope.

Paul: you do know that the president is responsible for the actions and statements of his staff, right?

The $787 billion stimulus plan is turning out to be far less stimulating than its architects expected.

Back in early January, when Barack Obama was still President-elect, two of his chief economic advisers — leading proponents of a stimulus bill — predicted that the passage of a large economic-aid package would boost the economy and keep the unemployment rate below 8%. It hasn't quite worked out that way. Last month, the jobless rate in the U.S. hit 9.5%, the highest level it has reached since 1983. (See 10 ways your job will change.)

The two advisers who wrote the paper, Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein, went on to land key jobs in the Obama Administration. Romer is the head of Obama's Council of Economic Advisers, and Bernstein is the chief economist and economic-policy adviser to Vice President Joe Biden.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1910208,00.html#ixzz1KAtKupWo

Why am I not surprised that "joe" is calling a report prepared BEFORE the Inauguration that states clearly that it is an estimate based on a PROTOTYPE stimulus bill, NOT the one that actually passed, a "promise" from the President?

because words have meaning nashville. I know thats hard for you libs to understand, when you're used to lying whenever your lips are moving.

WOW I have 2 kids. I thought I knew what a full blown tantrum looked like but now that I see joe I realize that todlers have nothing on him. LOL

Joe -- you give a link to newsmax to prove something? Is that the best you can do?? Giving neswmax as a source for honest and reliable reporting is like asking Newt Gingrich to give a do a seminar on how to stay married.

this one's getting old, joe.

47% don't pay FEDERAL income tax; but they do pay FICA and SS and state and local taxes. I know, it doesn't fit your narrative. But, it is a FACT.

You call the rich taking money out of my pocket and putting it in theirs is taking care of me. You call the ideology of destroying just about all of the social programs including Medical Research, Food and Product Safety, National Security, CDC, Environment Protection, Education, Health Care, Financial Reform, etc, etc, etc, etc, taking care of me.

Boy you got some weird ideas about a caretaker.

Besides, we are not looking to be taken care of by you or anybody else. We are asking for a level playing field where everybody pays a fair share in whatever the sacrifices that need to be done are done. We oppose the concept that it is all the fault of the Middle Class and hence we are the only ones who should pay for it while the real culprits that caused the problems to begin with get a free pass. In fact the even get a reward in huge tax cuts etc that they do not need.

Clara, who cares? the rich pay most of the federal income taxes, you should thank them for taking care of you.

USN: if you don't want to be taken care of then you would be advocating those programs be ended...but of course you're not...gee what a surprise.

the real culripts that caused the problem are greed leeches like you who want other people's money.

Well joe that's certainly an interesting debating 'skill'.

Make a false statement, get proven you lied, claim you don't care about the facts and then call the other person names.

I guess we know you by your deeds.

what false statement? post your proof, or apologize for your lies. but you won't that would take integrity.

the rich do pay most of the federal income taxes...truth hurts

As the data below show, incomes reported by tax returns at the high end of the income spectrum plummeted from 2007 to 2008, as did their share of the nation's income and income taxes paid. In 2008, the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 38.0 percent of all federal individual income taxes and earned 20.0 percent of adjusted gross income, compared to 2007 when those figures were 40.4 percent and 22.8 percent, respectively. Both of those figures—share of income and share of taxes paid—were their lowest since 2004 when the top 1 percent earned 19 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI) and paid 36.9 percent of federal individual income taxes.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

clara: still waiting for you to back up your lies or apologize....no surprise you'd scatter like a cockroach when you turn the light of truth on...

joe:

I see you are the designated hitter today! lol

Those with the income pay the income tax. How in the hell are you gonna hoard all the money, send the jobs overseas, bust the unions, cut the wages, and THEN come BACK AROUND and ask "Why ain't ya'll paying income tax?"

I mean damn near 10% of Americans are unemployed, some are children, some are seniors, and some are the working poor.

So did you have a point, or are you just trying to distract us from the fact that MOST corporations pay ZERO taxes in spite of making HUGE PROFITS by overcharging US? And these same folks PAY the Congress to pass laws that benefit them?

I have NO SYMPATHY at all for these folks . . . they are not facing ANY HARDSHIP and I WILL NOT let the conversation center around them and their made up problems!

Now, pay your fair share and shut up about it. . . that is what the rest of us are doing.

nashville: you can thank the unions and the government regulations and taxes for sending jobs overseas. obama is giving loans to build oil refineries in columbia...why not in the US?

yah damn near 10% are unemployed...thanks to the policies of obama.

how do you know corporations are overcharging people? have you done a cost accounting analysis on each item? propoganda.

I don't think companies should pay any tax, since they just pass the cost of that tax onto the consumers, its a hidden tax.

the rich pay most of the taxes, in excess of their adjusted gross income...you should thank them for taking care of you....and stop being so damned greedy..take care of yourself instead of expecting the rest of us to.

State and local taxes have nothing to do with the federal budget or revenues other than the ability to deduct these from your income taxes which everyone can do.

The point Joe is making is that 47% of the population have virtually no skin in the game when it comes to the federal budget. They may pay FICA taxes, but the amount they pay in taxes will be dwarfed by the amount of benefit they can/will receive.

Danno, anyone who buys anything, rents anything, or drives anything pays some taxes to the feds directly or indirectly. Those who sell or rent to him do not kick in the federal taxes out of their pockets.

Not to mention FICA, of course, but you wanted to avoid that, didn't you?

how much thought did it take president obama to come up with giving old people who are 'useless eaters' a pain pill instead of medical care?

joe-3041821

how much thought did it take president obama to come up with giving old people who are 'useless eaters' a pain pill instead of medical care?

How long did it take you to dream up that moronic garbage?

lol smith 1. hows george soros workin out for ya, or barrys buddy he appointed from GE to his advisory staff. yea, GE that paid no taxes.

typical brainwashed lib, his messiah can do no wrong.

Look at Joe. A sad little person, trying to play with the grown-ups.

job: I'm having a great deal of fun actually...its fun to see how libs scatter like cockroaches when the light of truth is shined upon you...

I especially like how you libs are unable to say anything other than spew talking points...when asked questions..you cannot respond...other than with talking points.

sounds like joe has an overinflated ego, eh Job1?

personally, I think he's just projecting his inferiority complex on the world. clearly he doesn't have anything substantive to add. Beck gave him his marching orders and like a good soldier he's here to deflect and infest.

Houston, you still have that giant Texas sized can of Raid we used to use back in the day? Probably ought to bring it out. joe is insidious; but I am pretty sure we can delouse, stat!

We are just low life second class citizens that want to be like you and have a piece of the pie. Now, please give me your money.

Come on guys take it easy on Joe, he just got off the little short yellow school bus.

Mo: get on your meds and take off the tin-foil.

I'm actually glad Conservatives are so irate that GE paid no federal income tax. Perhaps they'd like to join the rest of us in working to ensure the odd corporation here and there doesn't manage to escape what is inevitable for the rest of us "persons."

Two out of every three United States corporations paid no federal income taxes from 1998 through 2005, according to a report released Tuesday by the Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2008/08/13/study-tallies-corporations-not-paying-income-tax/

So you see, there's nothing all that unusual about GE not paying federal income tax. Let's work together in a bipartisan way to make sure they ALL pay their fair share.

actually companies shouldn't pay any income tax, since they just collect taxes for the government from their consumers...by passing on the cost of the tax.

Joe, we want your money. Don't spend it on your education, because it hasn't for you so far.

job: then why do I make you look so stupid so easily?

And yet Conservatives are here every day, whining about GE not paying taxes.

Can't have it both ways.

Only in your little mind Joe.

joe- thank you so much for that link, it's taken me to other links to other things and eventually lead me back to the beginning ;) Ron Paul for president!

....

Big Bob numbers,

odd, seems he did what Presidents do:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/04/19/president-obama-signs-north-carolina-disaster-declaration

of course that won't be enough for THIS President. OUR President.

Absolutely true.

There was also a car wreck on the highway this morning and someone died. But the President won't talk about it because it happened in a Republican State.

What kind of world do we live in where our President refuses to address EVERY SINGLE CRISIS THAT HAPPENS.

Oh my goodness, someone just fell down 3 desks away from me. I DEMAND A PRESS CONFERENCE FROM THE PRESIDENT IMMEDIATELY!1!!ONE!!!ELEVEN!!1111!!!!

LOL @Bob. I want smaller government, leave the states alone and let them tend their own business.

Fast forward to storm season, WHERE IS THE GOVERNMENT WE NEED A GOVERNMENT BAIL OUT. And of course it's from the welfare red southern states.

So when is Texas gonna secede? Just think how much money in disaster relief we won't have to pay! Probably they will still come beggin' to the good ol' USofA for money.......Shellie is right - we want smaller government - but woe when somethin' happens - who's the first one askin' ?

Bob -- if Obama went to North Carolina -- I have a hunch you would be griping about that. And -- as I recall -- he carried that state in the 2008 election.

As opposed to the democrats whose only plan thus far is to "cut" a few billion through accounting gimmicks and increase spending across the board? I'm the first to admit Ryan's plan may not be the ultimate answer but what else is being proposed? At least during the health care debate I remember there being actual counter proposals (Ryan had a big one, incidentally) put out there but this time, all I see is criticism of the play Ryan's proposed and nothing else. How does that accomplish anything? Reality is, the "solution" lies an an amalgamation of republican and democrat ideas but until both sides put something on the table and actually talk through the issues rather than just finger point, we get no where.

I agree with this comment. I think parts, maybe most, of Ryan's plan goes in the wrong direction BUT he has put forth a plan with some substance. Whether you like his approach or not, it is a plan.

I believe the President is correct when he states the debate is about the fundamental role of the federal government. If we want to go down the "to each his own" path, we have one plan already on the table. If we want to be our "brother's keeper", we have an alternative plan.

Which way America??

The only thing Ryan has put forward was the same old Bonzonomics that already failed in the 1920s and the 1980s. Calling it "New and Improved" doesn't change that fact, and neither does pretending that you just made this up all by your ownself.

As a matter of fact, lots of people have had lots of plans over the years; doesn't make the bad ones any more valid than they ever were.

the wealthy already pay most of the taxes in this country...why are you so greedy? make your own money, and stop expecting other people to take care of you.

As the data below show, incomes reported by tax returns at the high end of the income spectrum plummeted from 2007 to 2008, as did their share of the nation's income and income taxes paid. In 2008, the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 38.0 percent of all federal individual income taxes and earned 20.0 percent of adjusted gross income, compared to 2007 when those figures were 40.4 percent and 22.8 percent, respectively. Both of those figures—share of income and share of taxes paid—were their lowest since 2004 when the top 1 percent earned 19 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI) and paid 36.9 percent of federal individual income taxes.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

joe-3041821

The wealthy already pay most of the taxes in this country...why are you so greedy?

Why are you such a jerk? The money would go to help solve the deficit "crisis," not to me. I make my own money, a good deal of which already goes to Uncle Sam. Where do you get your money? From your daddy?

the money would go to more liberal programs to buy votes for democrats jerk.

all the money from the so-called evil rich wouldn't pay off the deficit and you democrats have NO INTENTION of paying off any debt....you want to bankrupt the US....cloward-priven.

Joe, we want your money. Now, hand it over please.

at last an honest liberal.

Job1,

Don't hold your breath. We've got us another keyboard warrior here. I can't wait to hear how wealthy and successful he is in 'Beckistan'.

IRS data shows that in 2008, the top 5 percent of earners -- households earning more than $160,000 -- accounted for about 59 percent of all federal income tax paid.

The next 45 percent -- solidly middle-class taxpayers earning between $33,000 and $160,000 -- account for about 39 percent of all personal income tax paid.

I asked Joe if he got his money from his daddy rather than from working. I take his silence as an affirmative. If daddy's taxes go up, Joe's allowance goes down. No wonder he's so violently angry.

violent? project much there houston?

still waiting on you to back up your lies...

'because you don't seem to mind the fact that since the days of Ronnie Reagan, wealth has been redistributed from the middle class to the already-wealthy.'

exactly how does that happen? what programs? put up or shut up.

oh its been fun watching you duck and cover!! LOL

loser.

Joe,

How about quoting an independent source? Not Tax Foundation . org whose board of directors in the past and present has consisted of conservatives from Bush's staff, Koch Industries, Exxon Mobil, etc

Real non-partisan think tanks and economists laugh at the claims by Tax foundation .org

ariel...uh huh....why don't you dispute the FACTS of what they posted??

apparently you cannot, so you have to attack the source....nice fascist tactic.

OK, I'll answer. It's true that the top 10% pays 70% of the tax. They also control 85% of the wealth, and that proportion is growing.

By that measure the 90% of Americans who have to scrap for the remaining 15% of the economy are the ones who are overtaxed.

http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/faculty/hodgson/courses/so11/stratification/income&wealth.htm

nice diversion...we don't tax wealth.

and this chart says they control 62.9 percent...

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/st289?pg=3

How about this Joe, in the last 30 years, the top 1% have seen their wealth quadruple while the rest of the population has not seen any growth in wealth. While this has happened, the tax rates for the last 10 years has gone down leading to what the GOP likes to call a redistribution of the wealth, but not to the poor like they say, but to the rich. We are just trying to break even here.

Great, we don't tax wealth, and it must have just come out of nowhere, otherwise we would have been taxing the heck out of house and home while they earned that wealth. Oh wait, the percentage of tax paid has barely changed.

joe-3041821

'because you don't seem to mind the fact that since the days of Ronnie Reagan, wealth has been redistributed from the middle class to the already-wealthy.'

exactly how does that happen? what programs? put up or shut up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:United_States_Income_Distribution_1947-2007.svg

The ratio of income of the 95 percentile to the income of the 80th percentile went from about 1.63 in 1950 to 1.75 in 2007. The ratio for the 95th percentile to the 40th went from 3.12 to 3.98. over the same time period. SO the wealthy are making 7% more relative to the 40th percentile in 2007 than they were in 1950 and 27% more than the 40th percentile. Oh, those poor rich folks. How they've suffered!

Houston: so you don't know...putting up some numbers about the distribution of wealth doesn't state HOW that happened. did you ever think they just earned it??

or it may be that all your failed socialist programs have created a permanent underclass that just keeps getting poorer.

Ariel: so what if it has? go ahead and post your source for that number.

the government isn't transferring money to them....they are earning it, while paying more and more of the tax burden for greedy people like you who want more and more of THEIR money.

joe-3041821

nice diversion...we don't tax wealth.

Uh, that was Donald Trumps idea. I thought I pointed out in the first post that the tea baggers' new hero was the one who proposed the net worth tax.

joe-3041821, changing the subject now that I've made him look foolish:

Houston: so you don't know...putting up some numbers about the distribution of wealth doesn't state HOW that happened. did you ever think they just earned it??

Their lobbyists worked very hard for the tax breaks, credits, and subsidies they get. They've also made profits by outsourcing American jobs to foreign countries where workers will work long hours for lousy pay under lousy conditions. I'm sure those Chinese workers work VERY hard for their American corporate masters and their own dictators.

houston: you haven't made your case...all you've done is post some figures that show the wealthy are richer....middle class money wasn't given to them to make them richer.

its THEIR money...not yours...not the governments.

you've just made yourself look foolish, but you're too dumb to realize it.

your diversions don't work.

ariel: this site disagrees with your numbers...

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

oh and houston: thank your union thug allies, along with government taxes and regulations for outsourcing jobs.

Ariel:

I do not remember seeing you here before. Great posts and right on target. Keep it up and come by more often. Kudos today.

joe-3041821

oh and houston: thank your union thug allies, along with government taxes and regulations for outsourcing jobs.

I'm not in any union, but I do appreciate those union "thugs" who secured 8-hour days, two-day weekends, paid vacations, and sick leave, work safety regulations, and other benefits that the people being exploited in other countries by big corporations don't enjoy. And yes, that's the reason they outsourced jobs to places like China. If only American workers were willing to work long hours for bad pay under toxic work place conditions, all those jobs would come back.

and this chart says they control 62.9 percent...

That chart also says it's "married households headed by a 60-69 year old."

You don't get tired of looking foolish, do you?

Using your link here http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

Here are some dramatic facts that sum up how the wealth distribution became even more concentrated between 1983 and 2004, in good part due to the tax cuts for the wealthy and the defeat of labor unions: Of all the new financial wealth created by the American economy in that 21-year-period, fully 42% of it went to the top 1%. A whopping 94% went to the top 20%, which of course means that the bottom 80% received only 6% of all the new financial wealth generated in the United States during the '80s, '90s, and early 2000s (Wolff, 2007).

There's a lot of other useful information on that page about how rapidly incomes have increased among the executive class, how the tax rate actually becomes LESS progressive at high levels of income, that Americans don't realize just how much wealth has been concentrated into the hands of the few, and how concentration of wealth is at or near historical highs in this country.

It's a good read. Thanks for bringing it to the table.

hey john, the percentages of wealth are MEANINGLESS...get a clue.

oh and thanks for putting in that quote from my article, it supports my position...THEY EARNED IT...the government didn't give it to them...and wealth wasn't 'transferred' to them.

its THEIR MONEY...they earned...why are you so damned greedy? earn your own money you leech.

you don't get tired of looking foolish do you?

NAWAP

John B:

Great catch. Poor widdle joey is getting his widdle butt handed to him today. Thanks for playing widdle boy now go home and change your diaper mommy Rove is calling you. By!!!!!

OMG thank You joe. I can't remember the last time I have laughed so hard. You have been a great source of entertainment today!

mitch j

nothing like watching libs personally attack a guy that uses reason and logic. redistributionists continue to underestimate the intelligence of the citizenry.

Apparently, the "redistributionists" didn't underestimate yours, because you don't seem to mind the fact that since the days of Ronnie Reagan, wealth has been redistributed from the middle class to the already-wealthy.

houston, explain exactly how that works...tell me the programs...the exact mechanism of how that happens.

didn't think you could houston...its just another lie...gee what a surprise.

You're a little too quick to declare victory, joe. From that liberal bastion the Wall Street Journal;

In contrast, tax return data provide a very accurate picture of reported incomes at the top. Our key contribution was precisely to use those tax data to construct better inequality estimates. We found only families within the top 1% experienced very large gains relative to the average since 1980 and that upper middle class families (the next 4% below the top 1%) experienced only modest gains.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116849172911973577.html

However, while the rich pay approximately 71 percent of the income tax, they pay far less than others as a percent of their income and net worth. The best known source of this view of tax collection is billionaire investor Warren Buffet. In an October 2007 interview with Tom Brokaw, Buffet admitted to paying only 17.7 percent when he combined the payroll tax (Social Security and Medicare) and income tax, while his office staff paid on average no less than 39.2 percent of their total income. This disparity is due to the low rates on dividends and capital gains (15 percent tax rate) and the fact that Buffet paid payroll tax on only about $97 thousand of his $66 million for the year.

In contrast, most workers pay the 15.3 percent payroll tax on all their income. Workers who make less than the cap on payroll taxes, i.e., more than 90 percent of all workers, contribute to total tax revenue an amount greater than their 29 percent share of income tax receipts. Payroll taxes generate a little more than one-third of federal tax revenue (up from a sixth in 1960), and approximately half this amount comes from the bottom 80 percent of income earners. The richest 1 percent of taxpayers contributes only 4.8 percent of revenue generated by payroll taxes.

http://www.lwv.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home&TEMPLATE=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&CONTENTID=12682

In other words, Conservative tax policy has been instrumental in driving wealth from the middle to the top ever since the days of Reagan.

oh John, please using BUFFET...LOL he's a typical rich liberal HYPOCRITE...who wants others to pay taxes and yet does everything he can to avoid taxes...he gets most of his money via capital gains...which is taxed ata lower rate.

hate to tell ya but buffet EARNED his money....no income from the middle class was 'driven' to him by the government...nice lie.

joe-3041821

hate to tell ya but buffet EARNED his money....no income from the middle class was 'driven' to him by the government...nice lie.

Warren Buffet thinks his taxes should be HIGHER. And now that you know he's a progressive and not a tea bagging greed head like the Koch Brothers, you'll probably say then he ought to donate whatever he wants to charity instead. Well, he does. And he and Bill Gates have been trying to encourage other billionaires who've done so well to be more generous with their donations.

Actually the real hypocrites are those who claim rich people who seek only to put the screws to others in order to increase their own wealth are laudable, while those who seek a stronger, more fair America more like it was before the great Conservative onslaught are hypocrites.

It's one of the best and most consistent examples of Conservative faulty argument by projection...always accuse the other side of what you're doing yourself.

Houston: since buffet thinks that, why does he do everything he can to LOWER his taxes? hmmm? and he writes off his donations to charity, doesn't he?

no one is stopping him from writing a big fat check to the government is there?? why hasn't he.

because he's a hypocrite. ie a typical liberal.

John, you want a weaker, more dependent america...your policies have led to detroit being a ruin....its what you libs want for the entire country.

Looks like all joe has left are angry, formulaic, off-topic rants.

John B,

It's not what's left - it's all he ever had to begin with. And then it devolved from there. Shellie mother of two said it best above.

NAWAP is so true.

"The Tea Party will destroy them, and send them to the shadows and back alleyways from which they came. go ahead, keep that nose in the air. it makes an undercut so much easier."

The only thing the tea party is going to destroy is the Republican Party. It's already started.

You know Conservatives don't have anything to support their argument when they feel compelled to employ the dog-whistle appeal to the Evangelical Fundamentalists that is encapsulated in the false messiah attack.

whats false about it? since its liberals who brought it up in the first place.

mitch j

class warfare,...

As Warren Buffet said, there was class warfare and his class won. The tea bag governors of Wisconsin, Michigan and elsewhere have launched a new class war against workers. It was a sneak attack, too, since Walker and his ilk are doing crazy stuff they never talked about during their election campaigns.

And the last bit of joe's credibility drops away as he tells us he believes Barack Obama is the Antichrist.

John: post where I said that...

oh you can't. again proving what a liar you are.

John B;

You know Conservatives don't have anything to support their argument when they feel compelled to employ the dog-whistle appeal to the Evangelical Fundamentalists that is encapsulated in the false messiah attack.

joe;

whats false about it?

You're welcome.

46% if federal tax filers pay zero federal income tax with some actually receiving a "tax credit". The tax code needs to be reformed for both individuals and corporations. This liberal talking point "tax the rich" is getting old and will not play forever. Shared sacrifice should not just mean increasing tax on only wealthy people. There is a spending problem in Washington whether or not you see it. This country will not survive by only taxing success over the long haul. Spending in Washington is out of control.

Yes; because the tax code has determined that POVERTY is a valid reason for not paying Income Taxes. Also, while they aren't paying INCOME taxes at the Federal level. They are, indeed, paying Fica and SS. So that entitlement is being footed by ALL.

How ya' been, Tony?

IRS data shows that in 2008, the top 5 percent of earners -- households earning more than $160,000 -- accounted for about 59 percent of all federal income tax paid.

The next 45 percent -- solidly middle-class taxpayers earning between $33,000 and $160,000 -- account for about 39 percent of all personal income tax paid.

So the top 50% of earners pay 98% of all income taxes, with the top 5% paying almost 60% of the tab.

Tony

I am truly offended that you included me, as agreeing to your rant. I couldn't disagree with anyone more than I do you. There has not been a president that has lied to this country anymore than YOUR idol.

Any one except obama in 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have no idea who you are, let alone include you. Disagree with me all you want. That is your right. I wore a steel pot on my head back in 1968 so you could. Not sure what your point is. I don't appreciate the idiot comment.

Clara , I am OK doing fine. Hope you can say the same. By the way, I know the difference between income tax and FICA. My degrees are in accounting. There are plenty of federal programs to fix so to speak.

No one ever acknowledges that 23% of Americans are Seniors, nearly HALF the 46% number that we should all be outraged over. How DARE they fail to pay income tax once they retire from a lifetime of hard work and contributing to society?!

I don't know where you get your numbers, but a lot of seniors pay income tax. Traditional IRA's are not tax free and there are other factors that apply. Half of the 46% who pay zero federal income tax are not seniors. That is just not true.

Tony my apologies my comment was to have been directed to Kr, I screwed up. USN63-64

15.9 s/b 63-67

Never thought you didn't know,...just trying to make the point that the NO INCOME TAX mantra is a bit stale given that Social Security is still SOLVENT (for now) and the 'revenues' come from 'INCOME' taxes, as being spewed by a rabid zealot today - isn't entirely TRUTHFUL to say that the 47% aren't paying their share.

Yep, paid the Tax Man last week and now gearing up for MayDay festivities with my kids and their school. Also planning a couple of big Girl Scout events for my troop. Work keeps me busier than I'd like or I'd post more substantive LIBERAL stuff. You should be thankful for my job! ha

Take care, we need to hit that wine cellar again!

have a happy mayday COMRADE clara!!

celebrate the killing fields, the show trials and slaughters of Stalin and Mao!!!

why am I not surprised?

caradjt. You really have no clue how business works do you? There is hardly a single company in the world who has not had to go in debt in order to finance growth. The difference between progressives and conservatives, is that you have no faith in the great potential we still have as Americans.

First, business and government are very different. The comparison you seem to want to make does not hold water. Second, no business can continue to borrow money to fund growth without a viable business plan, not to mention the indicators on a balance sheet. The issue is not potential. The potential is there as long as free enterprise is allowed to work and success is rewarded. Most Americans believe Obama is taking this country in the wrong direction for a reason. Progressive is another word for dependent. Seems freedom scares progressives. Freedom means you take responsibility for your own well being. That is where the potential is and always has been. More government and more handouts is not a solution, it is the problem. There will be winners and loosers. That is the rub with progressives.

First, business and government are very different.

At last, a Conservative who admits "government should be run like a business" is nothing but a bumper sticker slogan with no validity.

Government should be run like a business. Trouble is, government is not being run like a business in the sense that you can only spend what you can afford. Borrowing 40 cents of every dollar being spent will bankrupt this country. Most conservatives believe government should be run like a business. Talk about bumper stickers, "Change you can believe in" is a slogan for lets make more people dependent on government. Not what most people want. The cat is out of the bag. Watch and see what happens in the next election. People that actually pay the bills will not be fooled again by Obama

You just said government and business aren't comparable.

Which way do you want it? You can't have both.

Government should not be run like a business. business are to provide a service for profit. The government is provide a service to the people and the nation non-profit. John your thinking is exactly what the republicans want to do and if you can't see how it is destroying this country, then you must be one of the wealthy who is benifiting from this redistribution of wealth, that you proclaim that Obama was trying to do.

You're right, commonsense, but your disagreement is with Tony. Read up to 16.3. And thanks for stating very clearly WHY business and government are 2 different things.

well, without the full transcript of the speech - I can't say for any certainty what he meant; but dust, including COAL dust, is certainly a mitigating factor in symptoms:

http://asthma.about.com/od/asthmatriggers/tp/asthmairritants.htm

I am sure no one is taking his words out of context? That never happens.

The Obama Administrations Great Medicaid Lie:

During a recent hearing on Capitol Hill, the secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) admitted to double-counting in the Obamacare budget.

In her first appearance before the House Energy and Commerce Health Subcommittee since the health-care law passed, Kathleen Sebelius responded to a line of questioning by Republican Rep. John Shimkus of Illinois about whether $500 billion in Medicare cuts were used to sustain the program or pay for the law.

"There is an issue here on the budget because your own actuary has said you can't double-count," said Shimkus. "You can't count — they're attacking Medicare on the CR when their bill, your law, cut $500 billion from Medicare."

He continued: "Then you're also using the same $500 billion to what? Say your funding health care. Your own actuary says you can't do both. […] What's the $500 billion in cuts for? Preserving Medicare or funding the health-care law?

Sebelius' reply? "Both."

Coal dust does create respiratory disease. Black lung comes to mind. Whether it is asthma or not, the fact as he pointed out is that Coal Dust is not healthy and does cause respiratory disease. That is pretty well documented. It is also why they were masks when working in the mines.

your savior LIED again.

Ooh, second appearance of the "false messiah" accusation again. Conservatives must be really worried.

Conservative Doublespeak surfaces again, in which lies are truth and truth is a lie. This time it takes the form of the "double counting" lie.

Claim: CBO’s cost estimate double-counts the Medicare savings and additional Social Security payroll tax collections that the law will generate, because these savings and revenues could not both help pay for health reform and improve Medicare’s and Social Security’s finances. Fact: This, too, is a canard. In estimating the law’s impact on the deficit, CBO counted the Medicare savings and Social Security revenues only once. The financial status of the Medicare or Social Security trust funds is a different matter, distinct from CBO’s estimate of the impact of the legislation on the budget deficit. The skilled CBO experts did not double count, as anyone familiar with budget estimates knows.

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3366

First, critics have claimed that CBO’s cost estimate double-counts the Medicare savings. This assertion is readily disproved. Let’s be very clear. CBO counts everything once and only once. It counts the Medicare savings once. CBO doesn’t count anything twice. Just read the cost estimate.

The effect of health reform on the financial status of the Medicare trust funds is distinct from the law’s effect on the federal budget. The Medicare actuary has affirmed more than once, most recently just last week, that health reform will extend the solvency of the Hospital Insurance trust fund by about 12 years. There’s no double-counting involved in

recognizing that Medicare savings improve the status of both the federal budget and the Medicare trust funds. In the same way, when a baseball player hits a homer, it both adds one run to his team’s score and also improves his batting average. Neither situation involves double-counting.

By the way, CBO accounted for deficit reduction in exactly this way in previous Congresses, under both political parties. For example, the Balanced Budget Act of 1997 and the Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 (both of which were passed by Republican Congresses) included Medicare savings that were counted as both reducing the deficit and also improving the outlook for the Hospital Insurance trust fund. No one raised claims of double-counting when these bills were enacted.

http://budget.house.gov/UploadedFiles/vandewater012611.pdf

John don't you remember this?

SARANDON: Jesus was a community organizer and Pontius Pilate was a governor.
That's all I have to say!

BRAZILE: Jesus was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a governor, and
perhaps they should understand the role of a -- a community organizer to help
people in distress.

Steve Cohen, Democrat, Tennessee.

COHEN: I submit to you, Mr. Speaker,
that the parties have differences, but if you want change, you want the
Democratic Party. Barack Obama was a community organizer like Jesus who our
minister prayed about. Pontius Pilate was a governor.

oh and sebilius admitted double counting...all your lies won't change that.

Joe, you are a real joke, keep it up fool!!!

Wow, YET ANOTHER Conservative poster blowing the tired, old "false messiah" dog whistle for the Religious Conservatives.

Fascinating.

John don't you remember this?

SARANDON: Jesus was a community organizer and Pontius Pilate was a governor.
That's all I have to say!

BRAZILE: Jesus was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a governor, and
perhaps they should understand the role of a -- a community organizer to help
people in distress.

Steve Cohen, Democrat, Tennessee.

COHEN: I submit to you, Mr. Speaker,
that the parties have differences, but if you want change, you want the
Democratic Party. Barack Obama was a community organizer like Jesus who our
minister prayed about. Pontius Pilate was a governor.

I'm sorry joe, by telling us you believe Barack Obama is the Antichrist you've totally destroyed any reason to expect anything but dismissal.

John: post where I said that...

oh you can't. again proving what a liar you are.

Done, up above.

Bark less, wag more.

Even after 95% of working Americans received a tax cut from President Obama's policies the Right still has nothing better to offer than the tax increase bogeyman. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jan/28/barack-obama/tax-cut-95-percent-stimulus-made-it-so/

siis: hows trumka and soros' puppet, your messiah doing in the polls?

about the same % approve of him as number of citizens that dont pay fed taxes.

what a coincidence!

Isn't it time to give up this Koch Brother speech. I bet most people don't know who they are or even care who they are. Democrats receive money from supporters as do Republicans. Lobbists have had just as much influence in Washington as ever, maybe more with Obama. If you remember, and you probably don't want to, that was another of Obama's promises, to change the way Washington does business. Guess what, it didn't happen.

Isn't it time to stop trying to scare people into thinking Barack Obama is the false messiah, the antichrist? http://o.bamapost.com/

The tens of millions of dollars annually the Kochs spend on financing the tea parties alone gives that story all the proof that is needed.

People can make up their own minds about Obama's policies and results. His results have been poor to date. There have been and still are plenty of false statements and ugly comments about Bush. There are those kind of people on both sides. There will be tens of millions of dollars contributed to Obama's campaign as well. I doubt if the Koch Brothers contributed any thing close to that amount. The same thing was said in Wisc. The fact is they contributed $43,000 to Walker's campaign. The voters in Wisconsin will vote for who they believe has the best interest of the entire state, not just a single group. The liberals in Wisconsin went over board with their actions and language. That won't help in the long run.

Tony - A fair post.