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In American politics, everyone (critics, allies, close observers) seems to agree: Republicans are usually on message.
Indeed, the latest political fight over how to address the deficit provides evidence of Republican leaders hammering home their talking points -- that the U.S. needs to cut spending but doesn’t need to raise taxes.
Over the next few weeks, we’ll take a look at both the Democratic and GOP talking points.
Leave a Comment:
Sorry Jason Seher, but you are absolutely wrong!!! The Republicans are never on message - they just know how to BS America and that's coming to and end - real quick, fast and in a hurry!
That's why we are not allowing them or some of you people in the Media - try to tell U.S. what they are doing.
We can figure it out for ourselves...we just need you folks to report the news...can you do that?
Thank you and GOD BLESS AMERICA
But, oh my goodness, what if they report something true that you don't like? The reality is that you only want things reported that you agree with and if you don't then it must be politically slanted.
Kirby,
It's not about liking what is reported. It is about that which IS reported BEING the TRUTH. The UNSPUN, reality based, fair and balanced (to coin a phrase)TRUTH.
YOU want to talk about political drum beating? Go talk to GOP/TPers who ran on JOBS, JOBS, JOBS last fall and have yet to do ANYTHING to help with that issue but they sure did beat that drum.
The TRUTH is not in the folks who want to "balance" the budget on the backs of the middle class and less fortunate amongst US ALL. They simply want to rob any and all benefits from the poor to enrich their well-off masters. GREED is at the basis of this hypocrisy and THAT has nothing to do liking anything or anyone presented in the media.
The only thing 'being on message' means is that you can't get a straight answer out of them. You can ask away but their responses are the GOP talking points drilled into their brains so that nothing else comes out of their mouths. Michelle Bachmann is notoriously good at it - Michael Steele not so good...and look where he is now.
Well, wait a minute then Missy. Isn't unemployment down in the last few months? I don't give either party credit for that, but you want it both ways.
And yes, the "TRUTH" as you you put it isn't always what you like (or I), but that doesn't make it less so.
Agree with you The Democrat Soldier, the message they're staying on is helped by the media who keeps telling us what they're trying to sell. Would be nice if we'd see a response from democrats--maybe at least tomorrow, they'll give equal time to the other side.
I give President Obama credit for job creation because he slowed the economic collapse by infusing government money into the economy when the public was not spending but I also remember that this was not ordinary recession, it was a near depression and it was global. President Obama could have done a great deal more had the Bush/GOP debt and deficit spending not hindered the government's ability to deficit spend when it was needed most.
I agree Kirby. True simply IS. It cannot be manipulated and the bible says it will set you free. If we can just get by the lies to a point where WE all get on the same page and look at the real situation without all the political positioning from both sides. Though the posture from the right seems on less firm footing than the rest (left and ESPECIALLY the middle). So why is it that we Democrats always have to come to their house to play and still they want everything their way. In other words WE are to compromise to THEIR position. This is the GOP/TP definition of the word, you know. THAT DOES NOT WORK FOR AMERICA as in US All!
Here is what it boils down to Missy. Both parties are interested in getting and maintaining power. And both parties will lie through their teeth to get it. Whether it is the right, left or middle, they'll say anything to get elected.
The fault lies with us, the voters, who just don't pay attention.
And please don't say that about coming to the repubs house to play. Remember the HCR? That was strictly a dem party at the dem house and more people don't like it than do.
Repeating a talking point does not make it true!
Republicans are really good at 'bumper sticker' messaging!...
Keep repeating, repeating, repeat.....over and over........Until in their minds and that of the low-information base, the lie becomes the truth!
Liberals hail Clinton yet fail to understand that Clinton's entire budgets were roughly equal to Obama's deficits. For Bev and Feisty - that means the amount Obama overspends is more than Clinton's total spending.
Liberals excoriate Bush for his spending but fail to understand that Obama's deficit in February, one month alone, was more than Bush's deficit for the entire fical year of 2007.
Liberals mindlessly chant the mantra of taxing the rich, yet even millionaire Obama doesn't pay the full amount, the very guy that says share the wealth takes the deductions and skimps on the "poor and middle class."
Still - Obama's spending is so insane that if you taxed the top 2% 100% - it would not even cover Obama's deficit / the amount he overspends / the amount we have to borrow alone.
The world tells us Obama's spending is a very serious problem, S & P says the same and even Obama says the same thing, yet you guys still don't get it.
What is wrong with you guys? How obtuse can you be?
That may be, Bob, because much of the spending done by Bush was UNFUNDED! That means it was not in the budget! He spent money that Congress did NOT appropriate.
You're right Dee!
I know how we can solve the deficit problem........all those big ticket items that were unfunded and President Obama put back in the deficit column.......well, President Obama can just put them back in the column Bush used!
Take the wars OFF BUDGET
Take tax cuts OFF BUDGET
Take MEDICARE Part D OFF BUDGET
...there.......Billions saved......perhaps TRILLIONS!...the Deficit instantly looks great!
Dee,
The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq under Bush cost $700 billion.
Obama is overspending all of Bush's wars, for all those years - by almost a TRILLION .....THIS YEAR ALONE!
chilled,
Take the cost of Bush's wars, take the tax cuts for the rich FOR THE NEXT 10 YEARS, add them together .... AND YOU ARE STILL SHORT OF OBAMA'S DEFICIT ....... THIS YEAR ALONE BY $150 BILLION!
Actually Kirby, the Repubs are the ones scrambling for POWER, the Dems are trying to GOVERN, there is a WORLD of difference there. On top of that, the Repubs, have been doing all that they can to obstruct the reasonable GOVERNING of this nation in their scramble to try to get back into power. Now that they have control of many States, they are dismantling as much of the system that keeps people from starving and being in total abject poverty, and then giving all the money thus "Saved" to the Already-Too-Obscenely-Wealthy-To-Fail club...which is NOT Governing by a long shot, it is called LOOTING.
The Repub Message: The Little People Do Not Count, They Cannot Buy Our Votes So We Will Give Everything To The Obscenely Rich!
Bob-180,
“Obama is overspending all of Bush's wars, for all those years - by almost a TRILLION .....THIS YEAR ALONE!”
That is almost 2 times the entire DoD budget … thus an outright lie !!!
Dennis, the deficit for THIS YEAR is $1.6 trillion.
That includes the wars.
Are you really that arithmetically challenged?
Of course not. It is unbelievable, though, is it not?
Obama's spending is so out of control, it is like a bad dream.
We warned you. Over and over again, we warned you.
Now, we all reap the wind.
“Are you really that arithmetically challenged?”
Actually I have a minor in mathematics with 35 credit hours.
A little Context:
- Bush didn't count the cost of the wars in the budget. It was off the books. It is on the books now that Obama is the president. So you can just add the cost of the Iraq war to Bush's spending total.
- Bush was presiding over a growing economy that Clinton handed him. Beginning with Bush's 7th year in office, the housing crisis started and the wall street meltdown began in earnest along with the dive from 5.7% Unemployment to over 7% and accelerating as he handed it over to Obama. In his 1st month in Office the bush economy was shredding 700,000 Jobs a month. TARP was with Bush, so you have to count that to the Bush spending total too.
-Inaction in the nose diving economy was not an option in January 2009. Stimulus was needed and money was spent by Obama. Including several small business and individual tax cuts, and a bailout of GM. Saving GM was smart.
-The Auto bailout funds have been almost completely paid back. The TARP funds, likewise are largely paid back
-Obama passed a healthcare bill that is projected to save 160 Billion from the deficit. That confirmation came from the CBO. You know, the same CBO that verified some of the Ryan plans' numbers that the GOP pols are crowing about lately
So I see that you can compare Bush vs. Obama on spending. Thats fair. But its a better informed comparison when you consider the circumstances under which the 2 presidents had to make spensing decisions under.
We get it...the debt is too high. I'm a Dem and we all agree. But it does need to be shared sacrifice to ALL the sacred cows, including Military, Entitlements and Subsidies for Oil companies. It cant be just GOP pet peeve programs.
The trickle down continually promised by Corporate America in exchange for more tax breaks keeps being a broken promise, Just check the bonuses, the outsourcing, the tax havens and offshore fake companies, the avoidance of paying benefits and the falling wages as proof of the failure of trickle down theory. So I say if donmt trickle down, then Tax 'em.
No one gets a free ride. Shared sacrifice is the cornerstone of the compromise that will come.
Tim -- you're confusing conservatives with FACTS. They don't like facts. For Example -- we hear garbage like ---- Obama's deficit in February, one month alone, was more than Bush's deficit for the entire fical year of 2007 -- forgetting about the trillion dollar plus deficit in the last year of the Bush administration and that excluded most of the costs of two wars. The bottom line on spending is Republicans passed two tax cuts without paying for them, passed a new entitlement without paying for it, and started two wars without paying for them. Now -- after their years of massive spending, their solutions is to take it out of the hides of Seniors, the poorest among us, government workers, teachers, police and firemen while trying to destroy unions at the same time and calling for more tax breaks for the richest of the rich.
Nice posts, Tim and Charlie. Facts seem to be a real problem for the Conservatives, but they really put things into context.
Bob,
I understand your argument and I appreciate the new facts you bring to the table, but could you please refrain from name calling? We are all here just trying to have a political dialogue and it would be nice if we could all respect each other's opinions.
respectfully,
george.dc
Well the Democratic soldier is off goose-stepping this morning as usual with his emotional rants about the GOP:
The GOP has a message but you choose not to listen to it, just attacking the people who differ from you.
Ah, the Loonie-left media outlets and the uber-Progressive Soros media groups. They are, Soldier, very good for a laugh.
We can figure it out for ourselves...we just need you folks to report the news...can you do that? Yes, many can analyze and determine for themselves truth from fiction, but you seem to be unable to do this.
I agree with the above, but how much longer can we be able to state this? The Progressives believe we need to separate this from speech.
Would you give more alcoholic drinks to an alcoholic who promises he/she will stop drinking?
Would you give a drug addict more drugs on his/her promise to kick the habit?
WOuld you give more revenue to a shopaholic on a promise of getting spending under control?
Maybe some would but I believe the majority wants to see some accountability and proper stewardship first in the government's handling of our money before giving it more.
Amen Bill, accountability is what many want to see in government. As stewards of taxmoney, they all have failed - Pres, Spending Party Progressives-Democrats, and the GOP.
If they actually wanted something changes, those 535 or so leaders & members could effect change.
I listen to some guy out there who says that unemployment is down but he did not give any party any credit for that . he must be a republican and don't want to give President Obama credit where credit is due. I say if it happens on your watch then it is yours . so I give President Obama credit . it just took a little longer than it should because the GOP interfered with the progress . because they wanted Obama to fail . If Obama fails who gets hurt the American people but the GOP don't give a hoot about the American people they just care about them selves and the possibility of getting the White House back in 2012 that is their only concern . no care about us but if they get control of both houses and the White House,this is what will happen there will be no SS and no Medicare or Medicaid all union rights will be striped away from everybody. we need to stand up to the Republicans like the people did in Egypt and run them out of the United State Of America . we need to take control of our country where the Republicans have control. because they don't care about our rights or our healthcare at all.we need to all go to Wisconsin and Michigan,Ohio and run the Republicans out of town along with the Republicans in Tennessee
James,
The last time I looked at the U6 #'s, they are huge. I don't see this as the economy improving or jobs growing.
"Over the next few weeks, we’ll take a look at both the Democratic and GOP talking points."
MSNBC can easily find the Democratic talking points, they are firmly imbedded in every MSNBC Journo-list news story.....
Yeah, Bobbie- 'the place for politics' is like that. Not like the 'fair and balanced' outlet that hosts the Republican talking points, right? You know- the ones imbedded in all that cleavage??
And this is different from the refrain from President Obama and Congressional Democrats that we have a "revenue problem"?
How, exactly?
Hmmm...
Perhaps a real leader could somehow bridge this gap.
If only we had one.
Bob, We have neard "draconian" 'Robber barons" "Extreme" (Schumer favorite direct from his Caucus), "Koch Brothers" "destroy the middle class" ETC but none of it has worked. Draconian, Koch Brothers, Robber Barons! 95 % of Americans don't know who Draco, the Koch Brothers or the Robber Barons are. Can you name a Robber Baron without looking it up? No wondwr their message doesn't resonate. Destroy the middle class? Dems think they are the only ones in the middle class? I asked a neigbor if he thinks the republicans are out to destory him. He thinks the dem s are crazy for using that line and he's a dem! says it lacks credibility since mant reps are middle class as well.
Speaking of talking points. Any one hear that mcCrystal has been cleared by the Pentagon? Seems Obama pulled a Shirley on him by firing him from NATO command. The thin skinned one apparently made a Draconian decision to fire them without all of the facts. The extreme measure to fire first and ask questions later is reminiscent of the robber barons out to destroy the middle class.
His fire first and ask questions later in Libya has turned Libya into a quagmire. Almost on the scale of the quagmire in Afghanistan. We ware we going to see the caskets being unloaded in Dover. Seems it was so important a little over 2 years ago.
And yet, Rocco, you are intimately familiar with all of those things and find it necessary to mention all of them as being supposedly discredited.
The infinitely-private Koch brothers have found it necessary to publicly defend themselves.
Congressional Republicans remain about as popular as a raging forest fire.
Keep telling yourself people don't connect Republican policies with the downfall of middle class America...people are waking up.
Oh, John, do not go I to the area of popularity
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html
And, get this - he has only just STARTED campaigning. It took him two months to get down this far in the fall.
Imagine how bad,y he will poll in the summertime. Never mind next year.
He is clueless. He is out of his death. And he is the worst president we have ever had.
Just ask the world bond markets.
Without a doubt our resident poll dancer doesn't want to go to popularity...because President Obama is STILL as popular as Clinton, more popular than Reagan at this point in his term...and that's CONSISTENTLY been the case. http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/presidential-approval-center.aspx
Pretending the facts say something different doesn't change that.
JohnB:
You are participating in a Democrat talking point with "People are waking Up" analogy.
Do you know how many times that has been repeated in my lifetime?
I have heard that line since I was a kid and not even a bit interested in politics. Have you ever thought that maybe people are awake and you just can't accept that everyone will not conform to the Liberal ideology.
JohnB,
Now that's funny - but not very original John. Now can you also provide a fair and balanced comment about the Spending Party, those progressives or democrats?
Well guy, wait until people have had enough with the high gasoline prices and the inflated grocery bill they see. How will this administration deal with this, or will Obama choose to use this crisis as a platform for his "green programs" or Government Motors cars?
Is that Feisty or Bev as the poll dancer?
It's not hard for the Republicans to win the message debate when they explain and articulate the problem to all Americans, provide solutions to the problem, and pass legislation supporting those solutions. All of this done in the light of day and not behind closed doors. And that is exactly what the Republicans have done with debt/deficit debt ceiling debate.
On the other hand, Obama and the Democrats have demagogued the Republican plans, stated that there is a problem with the debt/deficit, but it's because we don't tax the rich enough, have told Americans to ignore the dire warnings of their very own Debt Commission report and the pending S&P rating reduction on US bonds, and made it sound like the economic problems are no big deal and there is really nothing to worry about.
It's really not much of a challenge for the Republicans to win the message war against the likes of Obama.
Really, SMiff- not much of a challenge? Let's hide and watch, shall we??
Is that how 38.5 Billion got reduced to less than 400 Million?
Splainin & Articulating!
Maybe we should scream from the hilltops, "Armegeddon"!
That seemed to work last year!
Good one Rick - The SKY is FALLING is so yesterday...
Will the Republicans tell the truth about the "solutions" they are offering? I think not.
"Do you hate TARP? Do you hate the bank bailouts? Do you hate gigantic bonuses for corporate bigwigs? Do you hate "golden parachutes" for executives who mismanage businesses? Well, guess what? We need to pay down the debt and we're going to make YOU do it while we give bigger tax breaks and more loopholes for everyone who benefitted by the things you hate. Enjoy!"
It's the end of the day, and as usual, the Libs are losing control of their bodily functions.
Buzz, get your mop again! Clean up on Aisle 4.
Well said, DaNoid!
JoannaSmith,
Anyone with a command of recent history understands which party tanked this country. The guy with the "mop" turned out to be Barack H. Obama.
I guess that depends upon how you keep score. "What party tanked the country." Be for real. There is more than enough blame to go around. If the current administration is carrying a mop for the most recent transition, cannot wait to see the size of the deficit/mess for the next poor office holder. Surely to be in excess of $15 trillion if 2012 and $20+ trillion if 2016.
Get a grip if you think it is all one partisan party affiliation that is responsible for the mess.
Only a super right wing hack could not find anything wrong with the GOP these days. How's that GOP kool aid taste? You must think it's good because you havehad your fill and then some. I really hope joannesmith is rich because the GOP doesn't care about you if you are not. I would hate to see such a mindless drone get taken advantage of.
It's not hard for the Republicans to win the message debate when they explain and articulate the problem to all Americans, provide solutions to the problem, and pass legislation supporting those solutions. All of this done in the light of day and not behind closed doors.
Oh yeah that's it, that and the talking points with keywords and phrases Frank Luntz passes out each morning. Ive seen thousands of people in Madison Wisconsin that didn't get the message.
The only reason that the Repub "Message" keeps ticking along is the billion of dollars that they spend to keep it in the media, the millions that they spend on Blogging Trolls and the like...their message: The Little People Do Not Count, They Cannot Buy Our Votes So We Will Give Everything To The Obscenely Rich!
Independant:
Obama was HANDED a $12 trillion deficit once he put the tab for the twin wars from the previous admin. on the books. He pulled their unpaid invoices out from under the rug where Bush had swept them.
I will be the first to admit that the greatest republican president of all time is largely responsible for a lot of America's (and the world's) fiscal troubles. That president followed republican tenet better than any had in recent times. The republican tenets of: deregulation, "free" trade agreements, WTO. GATT, and MFN trade status for China.
That republican president was none other than William Jefferson Clinton.
Clinton signed Gramm/Leach/Bliley, NAFTA, WTO, GATT among other damaging legislation sculpted, in large part, by republicans. Clinton says he regrets that he bought into these economic theories now. He and Greenspan and Stockman all have regretted buying into republican snake oil. The only part of it Clinton did not buy in to was deficit spending.
And deficits are nothing more than a coward's way of raising taxes.
The only thing the continued mantra from the right wing "cut taxes" proves is that they are not serious about solving the nations problems. The rich are paying less every year, with the continued promise from the Republican right wing that "the rich will create jobs when they have been blackmailed enough by the rest of America." It is utter nonsense and no thoughtful person can agree with that premise, since those promised jobs haven't materialized. Instead, there is more demand for more giveaways to the wealthy, the middle class is disappearing, and the working poor are having a tougher time every year trying to support their families. That the Republican party also wants to cut the safety nets for those Americans that need them tells you exactly what they want. They want the top 2% to benefit, as though this country exists only for them, and the rest to pay largess for being allowed to live here. Why people aren't outraged escapes me. This is class warfare at its worst, and this nation will suffer for it.
Spot ON NDD!
The party of 'parrots' continue on with the descimation of what's left of the middle class!
It defies credulity, Feisty. The only way we are going to get out of the morass we are in is to control spending, AND QUIT GIVING MONEY AWAY THROUGH TAX CUTS TO PEOPLE WHO DON'T NEED IT. What is so hard about that?
That's right, NDD, great post. If the GOP was serious about the deficit and the debt, they'd wouldn't be adding another $4 trillion over 10 years in tax cuts for the rich and big business--which is the same amount Ryan plans to reduce on the backs of the elderly, disabled, and the middle class. Eliminate tax subsidies for big oil because it isn't as if they don't already make a big enough profit; tackle the tax code which is filled with special interest loopholes. Then they could claim to be serious otherwise this is the same Reagan Voo Doo economics that has failed for three republican presidents and always ended in massive debts, recession and low job creation.
When are you three going to come to grips with the fiscal facts. Roll back all the tax cuts and you are still over a trillion short each and every year. Forget the top 2%. Even the remaining cuts will not cover the deficit. You whine about tax policy and lose all credibility to anyone other than a pure partisan by ignoring the largest element of the fiscal problem. It's the mandatory entitlement spending that consumes more than 50% of the entire budget and all the tax policy changes proposed, on this forum or by Democratic office holders fail to even come close to closing the current deficit. Let alone reverse the trend.
I challenge you to show me one proposal that will actually come close to a fix. Even one. Let's start with the POTUS proposed 2012 budget. Now take it from there and show me where exactly the Democratic leadership is with genuine fiscal remedies. Any Senator, and Congress member, anyone. I think you will find the same things as I. There is no such proposal other than the Simpson/Bowles commission proposals that have already been rejected completely by the current administration.
Jodi, Feisty, Dawning,
Once you tax the "rich" and still don't have enough money, then who do we tax next?? The "middle class" or will we redefine "rich" and get the next groups money. Then when there still isn't enough money do they come after you and your money?? Then will you think it is "fair" or at some point do you realize it's your money and it's their spending problem? The federal government is not entitled to anyone's money. Not yours, not mine, not whomever the rich are. They have certain responsibilities that need some revenue but look at how much revenue there is and it becomes obvious that the problem is the money being spent.
Roll back the tax cuts, start expecting corporations to pay taxes, rather than dodge them, revamp the tax code to make it easy to file, and impossible not to and you have made a start. I can promise you this: if we continue on allowing ourselves to be bullied by the "teabaggers", this nation will die on the vine. Jefferson talked about this in his day. He worried that corporate interests would rule this nation. Jefferson believed that would be the end of the experiment of the Republic that they tried to nuture.. ALL of us are responsible to pay for the benefits received from living in the nation. It is not the exclusive prerogative of the poor or the middle class to pay for the rich to have their way. It is OBSCENE, both what is going on in this nation, and that people like you buy into it. THIS HAS NEVER WORKED, It didn't work in Reagan's time, it will not and has not worked now. I am tired of people like you that keep buying into this crap and sending this nation slowly into third world status. It is not a measure of patriotism to keep giving the benefits of this country to those who don't need it and have them demand more. Get over yourselves.
Wow, it really didn't work in Reagans time? We didn't go from disaster to greatness?? What history book did you read? The problem is spending, spending and more spending. Nothing more, nothing less. We have in the past two years been spent into never before seen and non-manageable debt. You could increase taxes on every spectrum of the population and couldn't tax our way out of this problem. The problem is spending and it is the President's sending programs that are hurting us. Investments have the potential for success. He is NOT investng, he is spending our money.
History book? I LIVED through it. It isn't a piece of dry history to me, it is a part of my life. I made the mistake of voting for Reagan once, and rectified that by not voting for him again. The malaise STARTED with Reagan. And the "teabaggers" have made it worse. None of you have the brains to realize or know enough of your country's history to know that Reagan EXPLODED the deficit, that he helped created Saddam Huessin, and don't get me started on Iran Contra. Even Reagan, as big a mental midget as he was tried to rectify his mistakes by raising taxes twice or we would have been in a worse mess than we are. And no, regardless of what the "teabaggers" want you to believe, Reagan is NOT the reason that the Soviet Union broke up. That was a combination of the work of all Presidents and Congress since Truman, as well as conditions in the Soviet Union, similar to the 1917 economics that caused the overthrow of the Tsar Nicholas. Reagan was an unmitigated disaster for this country, and when we get over the PR campaign run by the right wing nuts about him, people will start to realize that. By the way, guess who liberalized California's abortion law when he was Governor. Yep, good old( pretend) antichoicer Ronny.
and is the sky blue in your world Dawning? I was there too, I lived it, we were saved by Reagan from what Carter tried to do and we will be saved by the next Conservative for what Obama is trying to do. Don't rewrite history to fit your made up facts. You are solidly in that forty percent that will never think or believe anything outside the liberal box. Have a happy life.
You know, I think I am more tired of that than anything.The b.s. about Carter. I did not vote for Carter, and I honestly do not like him, but he was not as bad as the "teabaggers" would have you to believe. You know why Carter didn't get re elected? The hostage situation in Iran, as well as a sluggish economy. It is as disingenuous to suggest that he caused the problems the nation had, (which actually stemmed from Nixon on) as it is to say that Reagan cured it. You are simply wrong headed, and I worry for this country when I know people like you vote. I am not rewriting history, I am telling you what occurred. You can't take it in because it defines Reagan in an honest way, which the "teabaggers" are incapable of doing themselves. I WAS a Republican, and in fact I was so well thought of in Republican circles that I was invited to Nixon's inaugural. I left the party when the nutcases (like YOU) took it over. I am greatly amused when I hear the "teabaggers" refer to President Obama as the liberal "messiah". See the "teabaggers" are the creator of the "messiah" and the "messiah" was Reagan. You are uninformed, undereducated, and should do us all a favor and stay away from voting booths.
Even the slogan "we don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem" can be traced back to Reagan, and what has that gotten us? Thirty years of exploding deficits and a declining middle class. The Conservative trickle down experiment is a dismal failure and it's time to be done.
I had forgotten that, John B. But you are right. Reagan DID start that nonsense, didn't he? The problem is that the folks who worship St. Ronnie will NEVER understand what he did to this country, and I think it will be another generation before a more honest appraisal happens. I am always amused though that the Reagan cult will be offended by the truth, but they can never say how we are wrong about Reagan. They are only capable of sputtering "but....but....it is our messiah, Ronnie Reagan." Never any facts from this crowd.
If Republicans bring home the message, then where is my fu@king job? Isn't that the first thing spouted after they "walloped" the Democrats? Jobs, Jobs, Jobs. The Repubicans are nothing but liars and sneaks. Ask Scott Walker if he ran his campaign on strangling the Unions, I thought not.
The republicans are proving to as adept as the democrats at misreading the electorate and are headed for the same,
"what was the license number of that truck?" fate. Funny that the folks who so clearly saw that the democrats misinterpreted the rejection of the republicans in 2008 as embracing their agenda are blind to the same thing happening to them...
And no better evidence than this thread...
Dang it dangerfield, you know how hard it is for me to admit I have to agree with everything in the statement above, don't you?
Yes, of course, the Democrats will sweep back to unfettered power in the 2012 elections with their Win the Future (WTF) campaign theme: "Spend It Like You Own It".
Don't Worry - Be Happy
Agree with John B, you're right on this comment.
"Winning The Future"...?
WTF...?
Hmmm...
Might want to re-think that one.
"Don't Worry - Be Happy"
Oh, we WILL, door knob. We WILL!!
dangerfield,
I agree with your implication that users on this site don't use enough facts to back up their arguments. Some times it seems like they just substitute name calling for facts to support their position. Thanks for pointing out the truth.
-george.dc
A Message embedded in lies is more important than the lives of Americans which will eventually bring down this great country? We prefer a look at the Truth vs. the lies the Republicans have been and continue to tell the citizens of this great country. If the elderly buys the Messaging many will be in the poor house all over this country then how will messaging work for us?
On thing for sure the Republican Trolls came out in droves today and drove our hosts to retreat to into planning a special forum/Platform on Republican messaging, exactly the purpose for their intervention. Your loyal bloggers deserve much better. Be assured Mission Accomplished" and they won't be full-time participants until they need to drive a message home and in the process drive out your participants. Very Dissapointed, very dissapointed. Today is the best example of Republican Messagin that our host speak of , they unfortunately fell for it hook, line and sinker.
Democratic messaging brings clarity with a UNITED WE STAND approach.
GOP/TP messaging is meant to divide and conquer, confuse and misdirect, obfuscate and deceive WE the American people.
We are awake now. The lies that have been told are unveiling themselves as unfounded criticisms of our fine informed and engaged President. We know that the hateful spewage flung springs from the depths of their cold hard hearts now and we see them for what they are: IN IT FOR THEMSELVES GREEDY ILK.
OUR message to you Mr. President is PRESS ON! Head held high and assured of victory for your message.We, the carriers of your message to the masses, march on for TRUTH. The whole truth and nothing but the Truth, SO HELP US GOD!
Interesting that you want the President to PRESS ON. That's exactly what the republicans want him to do too. You see, this time around he cannot campaign on slogans and feel good speeches, he has to run on his own record. If he continues on as he has done the past two years, which we hope he does, then the odds are extremely high he is a one term president no matter who runs against him. There is that solid forty percent of people that will support him no matter what, but the other sixty percent will most likely not support him, no matter what because he has proven to be bad for our economy and bad for our country. The S & P rating cannot be spun in any way other than that his spending frenzy has cost the United States.
I still say that the Repubs/TPers are looking very much like the Crack Suicide Squad in Monty Python's The Life of Brian. Everything that they are doing is 180 degrees away from what the PEOPLE want and the PEOPLE are going to remember all of this, very well, come voting day. So far Repubs/TPers are looking more and more like tragically bad joke and their popularity numbers are dropping FAST. There is absolutely no way that any of the possible candidates that have raised their hands on the right will even come close to beating President Obama except in those States that use paperless ballots made by Diebold, or whatever they have renamed themselves.
Buyers Remorse? The Repubs/TPers have no clue, cannot find a clue and could not buy one with all of their money combined...and if they DID buy one, they would disregard it anyways!
onest,
Those are a lot of meaningless words you just said. Any of those candidates will be running against the Presidents record which will be very difficult for him to defend. I think you have way too much confidence in him and the press saying there are no viable candidates. Any candidate will be viable against him and his record. The stats show a solid forty percent in the presidents camp which any Democrat will have. He is not getting much else out there.
Missy,
With respect to Obama to Press On... what happens if the Reps keep the House and they win the Senate (the probability is higher for the Reps to win it then the Dems to keep it - right?) and Obama is re-elected for 4 more... will he be able to spend the zillions he wants to or would you think there will be 4 years of gridlock?
God only knows that KRELL. AND it is HIS will that will be done. Just like when we elected this president, I put all in HIS capable hands and TRUST that he will guide our leadership to DO WHAT IS CORRECT FOR THE COUNTRY AND IT's PEOPLE.
He is a much cooler dude that most people realize AND he hears the dishonesty in our national dialog and will lead HIS people to disregard anything but TRUTH. The gift of discernment is about to be poured out on our populace as WE ALL will see them as they are hypocritical , power hungry and filled with greed lust.
I Pray for our leaders, especially this one, and it would behoove all of us to. We are in deep Ka-ka-moo-hay if we don't find a way to work and live together without all the acrimony.
Missy, So Obama telling folks at a rally that"we must punish our Enemies" "we bring a gun" "they can sit in the back" helps us work together without acrimony? Don't you think that the "cooler dude" would be above that?
Missy, I like your fighting style lady. You Texas girls got no problem skating into the corner,as we say up here in Detroit.
I think Obama will not so much win this election as the repubs will lose it. The clown roster they have lined up is almost funny.
I pray for our leaders too.
I pray for our leaders as well. And will add a prayer for continued divided government. Every time we have the Executive, House and Senate under the control of one party, bad things happen. One need only look back a few years to see the two extremes.
The independent,
That's a good point you make that is often overlooked. Opposition in government can be a really good thing. No one party should have free reign of the system. Thanks for enriching this dialogue.
-george.dc
What the media mean by being "on message" is that the Republicans talk like parrots all trained to say the same exact simple-minded thing. And the media just eats it up. If they all said "Polly-wants-a-cracker" it would be about as intelligent as simple-minded mantras like "America has a spending problem not a taxing problem."
What America really has is a Republican problem. It also has a credulous corporate journalist problem.
Gridlock.
I do respect and fear the republican talking point machine. As John Kyl has taught us,....they (like JoannaSmith) do not even care if their assertions are right.
You are only wrong if you get caught.
The repub machine has been steadily at work working their influence over the media, and you can hear the same catch phrases used in the evening rightie talk shows as are used in the morning rightie talk shows. They are on point, and on message. Like JoannaSmith and Spanky they are masters of HOW to debate,....not WHAT to debate. There is a difference.
Greg,
Kyl even had the gall to have his reference to '90% abortion rate at Planned Parenthood' removed from Congressional Record...... Wow.....
Deny, lie then coverup! Classic!
You got it Chilled:
Gotta' admit those people know what they're doing. They can throw up a smoke screen quicker than Batman.
Missy,
Thanks for writing back and the next few years will prove to be fascinating.
Praying for our leaders is good thing. They need it (no criticism intended).
When you say "He is a much cooler dude..." I hope you don't mean God (that sounds like blasphemy), so I'll assume you mean Obama.
It's too bad that all Obama cares about is getting re-elected - he's been in campaign mode for what - 5 years? To me, Obama's arrogance interferes with everything he does because he makes everything "all about him". His arrogance is why I didn't vote for him and won't this time around. He's more arrogant than Senator John Kerry + Lawrence O'Donnell combined.
My opinion means nothing except that BO gets 1 less vote.
Sorry to disappoint but I did mean GOD being the cool dude. I prefer to refer to my personal God as a man, probably a remnant from my up-bringing and being socialised to relate to Him as a HE. Blasphemy! Oh my, why? God has a sense of humor or HE (my choice of gender of course since we all know that HE is really genderless) would have trashed us all by now. Using His name to Kill and Mame throughout the centuries would certainly have soured me on Human potential for goodness or LOVE. That is what God is you know, LOVE. Where is that in the far RIGHT catechism. Not so much? Hmmm....
We all only get one vote so we best be smart with it. I get weary of the looooooooooooong and CONSTANT campaign AGAINST the things that will help US All too, you know.
Listening in Love and trying to understand,
Your pal Missy
Seriously! Kerry and O'Donnell! They can't hold a candle to Newt, Trump or ANYONE on FOX. Try gain?
'Republican leaders hammering home their talking points -- that the U.S. needs to cut spending but doesn’t need to raise taxes.'
Actually, it is the US Government that needs to cut spending. It is typical of a left leaning journalist to assume the country and the government are interchangeable.
Believe it or not, the Government is not the center of the universe.
Ward and June at the Dinner table:
Ward: June, we have a spending problem!
June: Ward, we have a revenue problem!
June: Utilities have gone up 10%, Groceries up 10%, Gas up 20%! Your salary can't meet current expenses!
Ward: Well, I had to take a reduction in pay to keep my job, so we could hire that Harvard guy to lead our company... I'm sure it will pay off in the long run... In fact, there will be more jobs for all!
June: Good, maybe I can get one! We need the cash flow...
Ward: No wife of mine will ever go to work! What an embarassment to me as a 'provider'...
Duh... When it all began... We've been lead down this road for years... You've just gotta pay the 'big' guy a whole bunch to get his great leadership ideas?
And the rich get richer... and we all know the rest.
Typical lying Republicans. We need to collect taxes on all Americans, change the tax code to garner more taxes from individuals making over $250,000.00 and Corporations making over $1,000,000.00. Spending must continue at some level to maintain living standards for the lower and geriatric population. The corporations and billionaires pay to lobby their way out of taxes while you pay your share? The richest 1% take home 25% of our nation's income - they are not paying their fair share into the public coffers. Corporations making vast profits pay no taxes. Now they are coming after our Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. so they can get even more tax cuts. I guess they want bigger tax refunds from us. NO MORE! It is now time for the middle class to fight back! We built this country. Lets stop the theft of it by corporations. We need to join with hundreds of other tax paying citizens to let these tax cheating corporations know that we are on to them. I agree with President Obama! Anyone making over $250,000.00 should pay more taxes! Bankers are the biggest killers of our economy by compensating their CEO's and CFO's in excess. Republicans with seeking to dismantle venerable safety net programs and choosing tax cuts for the wealthy at the expense of students paying for college or older adults on Medicare. If Congress wants to go after "entitlements" they should start with "THEIRS FIRST!!" Make Congress go under under a private sector health care plan like the rest of the country. The lower and middle class have enough pressures on them to have to support the richest 2%. All companies should be taxed on Gross Income generated world-wide and the mega- rich 2% should be taxed on gross earning if in excess of $1,000,000.00.
Independant:
Obama was HANDED a $12 trillion deficit once he put the tab for the twin wars from the previous admin. on the books. He pulled their unpaid invoices out from under the rug where Bush had swept them.
I will be the first to admit that the greatest republican president of all time is largely responsible for a lot of America's (and the world's) fiscal troubles. That president followed republican tenet better than any had in recent times. The republican tenets of: deregulation, "free" trade agreements, WTO. GATT, and MFN trade status for China.
That republican president was none other than William Jefferson Clinton.
Clinton signed Gramm/Leach/Bliley, NAFTA, WTO, GATT among other damaging legislation sculpted, in large part, by republicans. Clinton says he regrets that he bought into these economic theories now. He and Greenspan and Stockman all have regretted buying into republican snake oil. The only part of it Clinton did not buy in to was deficit spending.
And deficits are nothing more than a coward's way of raising taxes. Tax and spend republicans.
Maybe when the Dems. get a message we will hear from them but all we hear now from them is that the Rep or going to kill your grand ma. Everyone who has even looked at the Rep bill knows that it will not effect the seniors 55 or older at all. So they are just doing the same old thing.Â
That is a very shortsighted view of ryan's Medicare plan. What of the person who is 54?
Robert2237
When Grammy's $6,400 insurance voucher runs out,.....she will be dead without insurance.
Therefore, the Repubs killed your Grammy, who is now 55,.....but won't always be.
Well said Greg. We're supposed to mortgage our future to avoid having adequate revenue now Look at the shiny mirage of miraculous cost savings through privatization and you get to completely ignore the fact that any and all savings would be given away to the rich in the form of tax cuts...and the deficits remain.
Where the Republicans and Democrats have to come together on increasing revenue is gong to have to be where they agree to eliminate tax exemptions within the tax code that in too many cases are just write offs that only the rich and well off can afford. For example, the write offs for "green" technologies (the $60000 electric VOLT... wind turbines in our back yards, etc etc ) that allow corporations like GE to cozy up to Obama and get a free ride each tax year, but only rich and well off folks can afford to buy these write offs. The solution is not to generically raise any general tax marginal rate as the President's own Debt Commission showed, it is to remove tax exemptions where more people "at the top" have to pay taxes instead of writing off things that are fun for them to buy! It would expand the tax paying base (essentially raising taxes for people that had been writing off their luxuries, but not arbitrarily targeting "people with over $250K in income" that reflects most of the small businesses in the United States. CHANGE THE TAX CODE and increase your revenue.
But all this is moot if you do not significantly reduce what we as a Government spend. The days of spend, spend , spend are over so that shouold reflect the demise of hte Demcoratic Paerty since that is all they know how to do. Every family in the United States now knows what it means to reign in spending in their family budgets.... It is about time the Government learned how to do that too. The Republicans got the message, but the President only wants to get reelected so he is pushng the "Everything is fine and I hate successful people" campaign and we the taxpayers of the US are funding his campaign trips!
Sooo he and Geitner are upbeat about reaching a budget agreement. Well, what cuts or SPECIFIC tax exemption cuts have they put on the table. Pull back the curtain and there is nothing on stage but words.
The Volt is 45,000 NOT 60,000.
I LOVE IT when these GOPers post numbers and say things that are meant to distract us from what the gop REALLY did! They'll NEVER admit that in 11981, the debt was less than $1T and by the end of bush's last budget, it was $11.9T. That means that the last 3 GOP presidents signed TWENTY deficit riddled budgets ( that THEY requested) that directly led to the run up of $11T in debt! (Clinton spent FIVE YEARS eliminating the $250B deficit left to him by daddy bush). But the GOP did it!
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm
They will NEVER admit that they did it all DELIBERATELY, following their plan called "starve the beast", adopted under Reagan, to mortgage the government to the hilt, cause a debt crisis, and then privatize the social entitlements! DELIBERATELY!!!! Also, they'll never tell you that they left Pres. Obama a $1.3T deficit in FY 2009 and that Pres. Obama is trying to eliminate that bush deficit!
http://www.forbes.com/2010/05/06/tax-cuts-republicans-starve-the-beast-columnistsbrucebartlett.html http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10054/1037783-109.stm http://blogs.forbes.com/conorfriedersdorf/2010/11/11/how-starve-the-beast-made-the-taxpayer-poorer/
They will NEVER tell you that they endangered the national security and furture economy of the United States of America JUST to attain the political goal of getting all the entitlement money into the hands of insurance companies, bankers and Wall St. moguls who just finished crashing the US economy?
It's shocking how many average republican americans dont know about all this and STILL support the party that is trying to drive them in to bottom end of US society!The media, including First Look will also never tell you this story!! SHOCKING!!
Tom,
Thank you for providing links in your comment. That is very helpful.
George, there is a LOT more info out there on this subject!! So, spread the word!
Poetry Tom!! Absolute poetry!!
A True statement perhaps? "U.S. needs to cut spending but doesn't need to raise taxes" But so far I haven't heard how we are going to accomplish this. Let's face it "We the Little People", over many years, have been mislead by the governmen...t, at our expense.
Now if just one politician of any denomination could admit that, perhaps I would have faith in their honesty. And yes History does repeat itself>> http://familyreform.blogspot.com/2011/01/does-history-repeat-itself.html
GRanPA, you mean we've been misled, AND LIED TO , by REPUBLICANS! They never told us they had a plan called "starve the beast" where they would mortgage the government to the hilt, create a budget crisis so they could dismantle SS, Medicare, Medicaid etc and then privatize them. Their idea was to get all the money spent on social programs into the hands of insurance companies, bankers and Wall St. moguls who jsut crashed the economy!!! AINT THAT NEAT????
Oh yeah, taxes on the wealthy MUST be raised in addition to cutting spending! I dont think many people have a real grasp of what they GOP has done to this country these past 30 years with their tax cuts and deficits! Look at it this way, to eliminate the national debt, we would ahve to defund the entire government for FIVE YEARS!!! Yup, that's right--- keep collecting all the taxes and dont spend a dime!
Of course that cant happen but it illustrates the severity of the problem! As long as the gop INSISTS ON CUTTING TAX AND insists ON RAISING THE DEFICT, and pays only LIP SERVICE to cuts in the budget, we will ramin in the mess we're in! Just as Clinton inherited daddy bush's deficit and debt, so too did Obama inherit bush's deficit ( $1.3T worth) and his debt. If you look at the official n umbers, what you'll find is that the deficit for FY 2009, bush's last budget, was $1.8T ( $500B was Obama contribution) and for FY 2010, Obama's first budget, the deficit was $1.66T----- That's right, it DECREASED!. ( http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm)
And if we're really lucky, the deficit for Obama's 2nd budget will be slightly lower than that! Solving the entire problem will take MUCH more vigorous action-- including cuts where the fat REALLY is ( ex. Defense) AND raising taxes ( on the wealthy).
I find it disturbing that most people here see no wrong in their own party. I call out Obama, Reid, Pelosi, I don't rip on the GOP very often because 95% of the media and people on here do it already. If you are paying attention to what the hell our party (Dem) is doing, it appears to me we are panicking. Watch the sh** Obama is flinging right now. To me the GOP will self destruct if we leave them alone but we need to understand what we are doing though.
Independents are growing tired of Obama, and the luster is starting to come off of the Tea Party and MOST Americans are tired of the blame game. Obama was out there blaming the GOP for the bridge collapsing in Minnesota on short coming in funding. That bridge collapsing was a DESIGN FLAW not lack of funding. This is why Obama is losing the American people because of always blaming others.
Hillary 2012
Democrat Soldier, You're wrong. The Repubs are on message. Obama is like a man without a driver's licence, driving a Rolls Royce. You rosenbergs have driven the country into bankruptcy.
Juven. actually it's the GOP that drove his country to the brink of bankruptcy!! DELIBERATELY!! In 1981, the national debt was less than $1T---- as of the end of bush's last budget, it was $11.9T. See above for all the proof you need!
While you play political games, you are blind to what they GOP did and continues to do to this country! If you arent in the top 5% of earners, you have no idea just how badly you are going to be screwed if the GOP is allowed to follow thru with their 30 yo plan!
Wow, first Juven reveals himself to be a Birther, now antisemitic.
Sooner or later people tell you who they really are.