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Six states, New York City, and three conservation groups ran into a buzz saw at the U.S. Supreme Court today, likely signaling an end to their legal battle against five big power companies over global warming.
The Supreme Court Building is seen last month on Capitol Hill in Washington. (AP)
They filed their lawsuit in 2004, hoping to have a legal fallback ready in the event the Environmental Protection Agency chooses not to impose carbon dioxide pollution limits on existing power plants. The states, New York, and the conservation groups -- collectively, the plaintiffs -- claimed that those power plants were creating a public nuisance, releasing greenhouse gasses that contribute to global warming and cause environmental damage. The power plants they targeted, their suit said, emit ten percent of the entire country's carbon dioxide pollution.
But based on comments from the justices during today's oral argument, it's doubtful the plaintiffs have a single vote on the court in favor of keeping their lawsuit going. Chief Justice John Roberts noted that the EPA has decided to look at whether CO2 emissions from existing plants should be regulated. "Doesn't that mean that this federal action displaces any right to sue under common law?" he asked.
Even the court's more liberal justices hinted that they doubted the plaintiffs could keep their public nuisance suit going. "The relief you seek sounds like what the EPA does. You want to turn federal judges into a super-EPA," said Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
The justices were also skeptical that the plaintiffs could successfully attribute a measurable change in global warming -- a worldwide phenomenon -- to a single group of polluters. The states claim they can do so based on past cases in which one state sues a company in another state for causing pollution that creates a public nuisance. "But there's a huge gap or chasm between state pollution cases and this global one," said Justice Elena Kagan.
The EPA has said it will decide by May of 2012 whether to regular CO2 emissions from existing plants. Environmental groups wanted this lawsuit to be a fallback in the event it views the EPA's action as insufficient. But it now seems doubtful that legal safety net will be available.
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The only question I have is the following:
If the budget cuts proposed under the Ryan plan become law, they would gut the power, size and authority of the EPA especially in monitoring coal emissions. Would the court be willing to rehear the case under these new circumstances?
Ira Lapin
If the budget cuts proposed under the Ryan plan become law, they would gut the power, size and authority of the EPA especially in monitoring coal emissions. Would the court be willing to rehear the case under these new circumstances?
That is why we cannot vote GOP/T-BAGGER. Those are not judges. They are Koch operatives, the same as Paul Ryan, who wear NASCAR emblems beneath those strait jackets they call black robes.
Oh no, don't take the EPA!
But, who will protect the Polar bears?
Hey Bev.: "Koch ya."
.....and who will protect you and your children and the generations to come....the Koch brothers....hahahaha. You made my day.
Spanky-
Oh no, don't take the EPA!
But, who will protect the Polar bears?
Hey Bev.: "Koch ya."
That's right; you can depend on me to protect the environment. That's why I never vote republican and put pressure on my representatives.
Ira Lapin - That was a really good question you posed; I was wondering much the same thing. Maybe if you could have somehow worked the words "Trump" and "abortion" into it, it would actually have gotten some discussion going.....
Yeah, no, you're right, Spanky. Let's just scuttle the EPA. Certainly, Big Business can be trusted to always do what is best for the environment without their meddling.
Ira Lapin "The only question I have is the following: If the budget cuts proposed under the Ryan plan become law, they would gut the power, size and authority of the EPA especially in monitoring coal emissions. Would the court be willing to rehear the case under these new circumstances?"
Why, because the decision was not to the liking of some? The underlying issue remains the same - 'who is responsible for making the decisions - Congress, or the courts'.
JoAnne in PA "Ira Lapin - Maybe if you could have somehow worked the words "Trump" and "abortion" into it, it would actually have gotten some discussion going....."
How's this - "Considering all of the construction projects built by Trump, would the environment be better off if he had been aborted"?
lol
Good for you Bev, but what does never voting republican have to do with defending the environment? Now I am a republican, and I made a change at the hobby vineyard - going organic. Yep, you can charge more for organic grape!
And, I am not using chemicals or even polluting the air with mowers between the rows - installed the original weed-whackers, goats. Yep, I named them after comedians: Barack, Harry, Nancy, Feisty and Bev.
Way to go SCOTUS!! Let the burden of proof lie with the plaintiff.
So the companies are getting away with breaking the law because the EPA cannot get to all the polluters thanks to their defunding for the last 10 years? Am I right or did I miss something? SCOTUS doesn't want to uphold a law that the EPA had no time to fully implement? What about collecting taxes? If the IRS doesn't have the time and a citizens groups brings up companies breaking the law in regards to paying taxes then SCOTUS won't intervene right? How about immigration then? How about all these securities traders working both ends of the trade? I guess they won't ever be held liable. They are licensed so as to prevent them from working both ends and yet they have gotten away with it. SCOTUS is ok with that also? What do we need SCOTUS for then? The Constitution doesn't make a difference to them. Citizens United and Bush V Gore proved that much. Maybe we should just do away with SCOTUS.
Well looky here AnaBana has gone full revolutionary on us.
Tough times, even here in libbie land. It really is an effective argument AnaB - going from a silly EPA regulation to tax, immigration and securities laws.
I don't know AnaB, perhaps a tad over-reaching, no?
Meanwhile, record numbers of tornadoes are hitting the Midwest. What on earth may be causing the changes in our weather? Anybody?
Must be those darn polar bears, Amy - hey, who needs 'em?
So you're saying if the EPA is allowed to tax our power plants, tornados will go away?
Amy B, I'm going to go with natural climate cycle. We have, what, a little more than 100 years of recorded history to base billions of years of climate assumptions on? Yeah, I'm sure we've seen everything Mother Nature can throw our way in 100 years out of billions. This isn't to say that global warming doesn't exist, clearly the earth has gotten warmer and likely man has had at least some impact on that, but we went through major climate changes well before we knew what a fossil fuel was, let alone how one would burn it. Its good policy to be good stewards of our environment but at some point I think we give ourselves too much credit for our influence.
The Left uses the equivalent of National Enquirer headlines to scare us about global warming. And the Left claims conservatives use scare tactics!
Amy , being clueless about such matters in Maine, blames tornadoes on global warming. The latte sipping leftie city boys at NPR actually did a recent story in which grizzly bear attacks were blamed on global warming !
Bob,
Can I interest you in a nuclear power plant from Fukishima? You can have it for a very low price. Maybe put it in your back yard. It's only leaking a little bit.
Oh, gee, I thought the earth was only 6,000 years old--that's what those conservatives say.
As for climate change, it is both--manmade and cyclical. The difference between liberals and conservatives is easy to explain. Liberals ask why take chances, why not regulate those things we know pollute, cause health problems, cause cancer. Even John McCain in the 2008 campaign, back when he was still slightly mavericky, said we shouldn't argue about manmade or cylical because what if we're wrong, what if we can do something to slow it down.
Not to get too technical on a political site, but: We have taken stored carbon, carbon that the earth has stored for millions and millions of years (or 6000 years) as coal, peat, and petroleum, and have released a huge portion of the accumulated sum of that carbon back into the atmosphere in about the last one hundred years. I personally believe it affects the planet's ability to naturally regulate "greenhouse gasses" in the atmosphere. Let me make an analogy, you take all of the food you normally would eat in a lifetime and it all of it in ten minutes, your gonna get a tummy ache.
What is the agenda for America? Can someone from the Republican side tells U.S.? Every proposal from the GOP/TP causes harm or take away from the average American and only benefits or provide more to the wealthy Americans.
Is our Government so divided that the only purpose for the GOP/TP is to represent the Rich and purposely destroy those that are not!
Are we no longer a United Nation? The GOP/TP are doing absolutely nothing for middle class America - WHY IS THAT!!!
Wwat happened to America the beautiful!! land of oppurtunity for ALL!!! Are we not our brothers keeper?
Only one thing I agree with Donald Trump on and that is - America is going to HELL - and it's not because of President Obama; God bless his soul, he is trying to restore dignity, value and honor to our country which was destroyed by George Bush and Dick Cheney.
It's the EVIL GOP/TP - they sold their soul to the DEVIL and they give less than a damn for their fellow human beings- unless they are rich and can lace their pockets.
The GOP/TP are DEVIL WORSHIPPERS/ Slaves to the Wealthy - they hate people whom they deem are not like them or less worthy.
It's as if the GOP/TP are working for a foreign power - in a conspiracy plot to destroy America from within!!!!
95% of Americans are being treated like the JEWS were in Poland and Germany- by the GOP/TP; only difference is they are being slaughter finanically and force to be poor and virtural slaves for the rich.
You should be ashame!!! You are not AMERICANS - YOU ARE TRAITORS of a different kind!!
TRUTH - not CRAP
Thank you and GOD BLESS AMERICA
It's sure good to see the hard edged rhetoric has finally settled down around here, and we're finally getting to a more reasonable discussion.
Wow DS, You totaly convinced me. I will be voting straight party line for the Dem next election.
NOT
hi The - Democrat Soldier
It's good to see you and your cogent comments
Wwat happened to America the beautiful!! land of oppurtunity for ALL!!! Are we not our brothers keeper?
Only one thing I agree with Donald Trump on and that is - America is going to HELL - and it's not because of President Obama; God bless his soul, he is trying to restore dignity, value and honor to our country which was destroyed by George Bush and Dick Cheney.
It's got to be the things in the environment causing these imbalances in certain regions of our country where these fools live. I'm serious.
Thank our lucky stars we have a President with a backbone who just flicks the stuff from the naysayers left, right and center off his shoulder.
Yes, I believe in astrology. It's in the stars. This man was chosen. When was the last time so many people were concerned about a child being born? Many people chased the star of Bethlehem and many people have sought out Honolulu, Hawaii, even before Trump claims he is sending his investigative team?
In fact Hawaii requested people to stop calling and writing for his birth certificate. Don't worry about America. It's just a little karma we have to clean up.
Call me crazy; if you like I don't care.
"This man was chosen."
So Bev has just come out and compared her God Barack Obama to Jesus Christ.
I dare say Mr Obama himself would not be pleased with such rhetoric.
Thank our lucky stars we have a President with a backbone who just flicks the stuff from the naysayers left, right and center off his shoulder.
Chuck and Mark were being kind. Brad Watson made Obama look like a petulant child. The funny part - it wasn't intentional!
Bev, you're just so easy to refute.
Probably has something to do with you being crazy, blind and not caring what you say or how truthful you are, huh?
Seems conservatives have forgotten how many republicans were claiming "God is back in the White House" when Bush was elected, I mean selected by the SCOTUS.
Bob-1887910
"This man was chosen."
Literally and figuratively he was. He was elected.
Astrological signs represent twelve equal segments or divisions of the zodiac. According to astrology, celestial phenomena reflect or govern human activity on the principle of "as above, so below", so that the twelve signs are held to represent twelve basic personality types or characteristic modes of expression.[1] There are sun signs and moon signs, which both depend on your date of birth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_sign
What is your zodiac sign?
So Bev has just come out and compared her God Barack Obama to Jesus Christ.
The President is not my god. How many times do I have to tell you I am not a christan or a religious person. Spiritual yes, probably more than the fake GOP/T-Baggers since I don't know hate others unlike me.
I dare say Mr Obama himself would not be pleased with such rhetoric.
The President is opened minded and knows when analogies are humorous and appropriate.
Would you be so bold as to say it is true the last time so many people were concerned about a child being born that many many people chased the star of Bethlehem and many people have sought out Honolulu, Hawaii, even before Trump claims he is sending his investigative team?
FYI: Nancy Reagan had astrologers for Ronnie.
The earth, the atmosphere, and everything within belong to the profit takers. Clean air and clean water don't mean anything if your not making the largest profit margin possible. How can you even enjoy breathing knowing Massey Coal is losing income? How can you enjoy your clean drinking water if it cuts into BP's profits? Clean water and clean air, more unreasonable demands from silly liberals
Grump, I think there is another side to the coin you conveniently ignore. Profits don't exist if big business continues practices that literally kill off their client base. Have there been mistakes made in the past? Absolutely. Will there be mistakes made in the future, pretty likely, but with each mistake we learn new things and we implement better practices that improve things overall going forward. Yes, we need to be good stewards of the earth. But we can be good stewards without fear mongering and accusations toward the other side. If we all take a collective deep breath and try to approach this stuff with logic and reason I think you'll find that most conservatives are just as fond of clean air and water as liberals.
Suzy-2005071
Guess how much the executives at Transocean Ltd, the owners of the BP rig that exploded in the Gulf, those good stewards of our shrimp and oyster beds, got in bonuses this year for having the best safety record in the company's history?
Grump, I think there is another side to the coin you conveniently ignore. Profits don't exist if big business continues practices that literally kill off their client base. Have there been mistakes made in the past? Absolutely. Will there be mistakes made in the future, pretty likely, but with each mistake we learn new things and we implement better practices that improve things overall going forward. Yes, we need to be good stewards of the earth.
Suzy I completely agree with your words above. I just don't see us implementing better practices from what we have learned. In fact I see people refusing to accept what we have learned, people still denying that there even is a problem. Drill Baby Drill for instance, really solves nothing long term. We do need to be good stewards, we are going to be here the rest of our lives.
Grump, I've often thought part of the issue is how we regulate. Some regulations are both logical and invaluable, no denying that. We've seen plenty of examples of what happens when there are no regulations and even this die hard conservative can see that as a bad thing. Bt we tend to look toward the punitive side of enforcement rather than making it beneficial to employ good stewardship practices. As the old saying goes, you catch more bees with honey than vinegar. Create a punitive regulation and companies will do everything in their power to circumvent the regulation. But of we instead reward good practices, people are more inclined to participate. Play to human nature instead of fighting it, we will get farther.
In 2007, the Supreme Court issued a ruling requiring the EPA to regulate greenhouse gases which includes carbon dioxide. Former President Bush avoided implementing this ruling by claiming the "adverse" affects needed further study. That study was completed by President Obama's EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson and began implementing the regulations as ordered by the Supreme Court ruling.
The GOP, however, is determined to interfere by defunding the EPA. The GOP House either passed or has written legislation removing the EPA's right to regulate greenhouse gases. Seems to me that the republican Congress is breaking the SCOTUS ruling which requires the EPA to regulate these gases. So much for those children and grandchildren--the GOP's worried about the debt they'll inherit but not concerned about whether or not there will be clean air to breathe or clean water to drink.
Jody
They said that the EPA COULD regulate not MUST regulate.
Hey, it's not like we need the EPA here in Pennsylvania or anything - our own environmental regulators (DEP) are apparently already spending a whopping 35 MINUTES reviewing some of the thousands of applications they've been getting for permits to drill for natural gas in the Marcellus Shale. And, they've only rejected 31 of those applications out of the over 7000 they've received since 2005. In addition:
"They appear to have a fuzzy understanding of laws that are supposed to govern their work. A supervisor was unable to define the requirements of a key anti-degradation regulation that says pristine waterways “shall be maintained and protected,” while a geologist said he didn’t know that streams and rivers legally designated as “high quality” or “exceptional value” are entitled to an extra layer of protection.
Asked by Yeager whether he had “any understanding of what it means to be an HQ watershed,” DEP geologist Joseph Lichtinger replied: “Only that it means high quality.”
“Any understanding what high quality means?” Yeager persisted.
“No.”
“Do you know what that means in terms of the level of protection that they have under the law?”
Lichtinger, who performed the substantive technical analysis of drilling permit applications, shook his head, then answered no."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ap-exclusive-pa-spends-less-time-on-gas-drilling-permit-requests-accused-of-rubber-stamping/2011/04/13/AFaoFyVD_story.html
So come one, come all - Pennsylvania is open for drilling. And as a special bonus, you don't even have to pay taxes to do it here! Our new GOP governor apparently thinks that if we tax you, you'll take your drills and go elsewhere. And it's not like we really need the revenue or anything.....especially since he just made such drastic cuts to our education system and all.....
I was watching a program about the method of "cracking" the natural gas out of the shale, and this man could literally light his tap water on fire. Nice if you can fill your gas tank and run on this, but for drinking I'm thinking it is not so good. I believe this was in Pennsylvania.
Expect to hear a lot more about it in the future, Forrest. As is so often the case, in the beginning it's all about the money - as I believe President Obama said, "Nobody's an environmentalist until they get sick".
For another fascinating story of mining gone wrong in Pennsylvania, you might want to try this:
http://www.pahighways.com/features/centralia.html
We used to drive through Centralia on our way upstate to visit relatives and when my Dad was driving me back and forth from college. It was spooky even then.
The Obama debt and deficit plan. Add $1.5 trillion each year in the first two years, run a $1.5 trillion deficit in 2011. And a $0.75 trillion deficit in 2012. On the campaign trail in 2012, he will say he cut the deficit in half in four years. The math says he will do that, cutting the $1.5 trillion to $0.75 trillion. Never mind that he will have added $5.25 trillion to the debt come election 2012.
Never mind that President Obama inherited $1.6 trillion budget deficit from Bush; inherited a debt doubled by Bush and the GOP's unfunded spending, unfunded wars. Oh, that's right, we can't mention Bush and certainly should never mention the GOP pile of garbage left on President Obama's desk, under it and filling the room the first day he walked into the oval office.
You forget that is was a Democrat controlled Congress who sent him the Bill.
There is now a solid grass roots effort by the masses of former believers to have the leading scientists and leading news editors be subjected to criminal charges for knowingly sustaining the false CO2 death threats to billions of children for the last 25 years of the climate blame mistake.
Stay tuned. We missed getting Bush for his false war and a wave of former believer rage will make this right.
Money talks, feces walks! They have been bought like the other Republicans. They do not look to p0reserve the American way just their own while they live. Filed in 2004 and just now getting a hearing in SCOTUS. Seven years to get a hearing? What a waste of time and resources!
I think it about time - President Obama stop being so nice in the face of the media. The nicer he is the more they take advantage of his kindness and try to trap him.
I wait for the day - when he tells that person. Look! let me answer you fully and stop being disrespectful; I am the President of the United States; not you fly by night street thug.
Thank you and GOD BLESS AMERICA
Dem Soldier,
Ptesident Obama may appear nice in front of the media, but in reality, he isn't a nice man when he doesn't get his own way. In private, I am told from members of his detail, he can be a very angry person.
I wait for the day when the softballs change into hard questions for him to respond to. I await the debates when he must justify his policy record, answer for $5 gallon gas, or the rise in food costs. Can 't wait to hear his uhms, ahs while his brain works to form a favorable response to preserve his image.
safecracker - 1205811...thanks for your comment.
President Obama is an intelligent man and he can handle any question. I think Stereotype keeps him humble and it shouldn't - he should just say it like it is ... without worrying about how the media spins it.
Mean spirited people will take advantage of it - he needs to be him. If he quick witted and can tell someone to kiss his Ass politely - I want to see it.
I would do it - afterall if you can't give respect then you certainly don't deserve it.
TRUTH - not CRAP
Thank you and GOD BLESS AMERICA
Dem Soldier,
Obama may appear to be an intelligent man, but he thinks too much prior to answering a question. It appears to me that he is more afraid of presenting a response that can bite him in the a@@, rather than actually answer the question direct. And he does have that politician in him that talks wtihout a direct response.
Now he isn't a humble man - previous negative statements he has made prove this to be true.