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Subscribe to RSSDid Obama’s tough speech last week backfire?... New Washington Post/ABC poll shows his approval rating upside down… Obama to address the deficit/debt in Northern Virginia at 10:15 am ET… Standard & Poor’s wake-up call… DCCC goes on the offensive… DCCC Chair Steve Israel appears on MSNBC’s “Daily Rundown”… Trump sees a right to privacy and criticizes Ryan’s Medicare phase-out… Trump’s also VERY well-versed in financial-disclosure requirements for presidential candidates… The races of 2011: Profiling WV GOV… And Brewer vetoes AZ “birther” bill.
From NBC's Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, Ali Weinberg, and Carrie Dann
*** Did last week’s speech backfire? A new Washington Post/ABC poll -- which shows President Obama’s approval down to 47%, and with 44% believing the U.S. economy is getting worse (when employment is actually on the rise) -- suggests that the climbing gas prices have soured the public’s mood, big time. “Almost eight in 10 say inflation in their area is getting worse, and more than seven in 10 say higher gasoline prices is causing financial hardship at home,” the Post writes. But this poll, as well as the Gallup surveys, also seems to confirm that the president’s speech last week might not have played well. For one thing, and this is true going back to the ’08 campaign, Obama usually doesn’t get rewarded when he comes off as too partisan (even though the left loves it). More importantly, last week’s speech was on a topic -- the deficit/debt -- that most Americans don’t find as important as the economy/jobs. And in the Post/ABC poll, Obama took a hit with independents, with 55% of them disapproving of his job.
*** Watch Obama’s tone today: So as Obama talks about the deficit and debt today in Northern Virginia at 10:15 am ET, it’s worth asking: What will his tone be? And will his focus be exclusively on the deficit/debt, or will he place a bigger emphasis on the overall economy? (Speaking of tone, don’t miss Obama lecturing a Dallas reporter after the interview had concluded, “Let me finish my answers the next time we do an interview.” The combative tone in was mostly about NASA's decision to NOT give a Shuttle to Houston. Watch the entire interview; it's a classic example of someone allowing irritation to show. As the old deodorant commercial once quipped -- don’t let us see him sweat.)
*** Standard & Poor’s wake-up call: It will also be interesting to see how Obama weaves the news of yesterday’s Standard & Poor’s warning, which sent U.S. stocks tumbling. More than anything else, that news served as a wake-up call to Washington that Wall Street is paying attention -- and that failure to reach a long-term agreement could have negative impact. The last time Wall Street sent such a dire warning to Washington was after the House defeated the initial TARP legislation. Both parties are spinning the S&P decision as proof they are right: Dems say it means they have to meet in middle; Republicans say it means president needs to get more serious about the problem. By the way, Vice President has called for May 5 to be the first White House-led bipartisan meeting to forge a compromise on the deficit.
*** DCCC goes on the offensive: The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee is going on the offensive against the House GOP budget plan. The DCCC is launching a paid and grassroots campaign (consisting of radio ads, Web ads, phone calls, and email alerts) that targets the effort to phase out Medicare. Here’s a sample radio ad: “Did you know Congressman Chip Cravaack [R-MN] voted to end Medicare forcing seniors to pay $12,500 for private health insurance, without guaranteed coverage? Tell Cravaack to keep his hands off our Medicare.” DCCC Chairman Steve Israel will appear on MSNBC’s “Daily Rundown” today.
*** Trump sees a right to privacy, criticizes Ryan budget plan: As MSNBC.com's Carrie Dann has noted, Donald Trump hasn't always thought President Obama is the worst president ever. (In 2009, he praised both the economic stimulus and the president. “I think we have a president who is working very hard and trying very hard. He inherited a mess.”) And now comes an interview with NBC’s Savannah Guthrie that might raise more conservative eyebrows. When asked if there’s a right to privacy in the Constitution -- which was the legal underpinning in Roe v. Wade -- Trump said, “I guess there is. I guess there is.” He went on to say, “Look, I’m pro-life.” Trump also criticized the House GOP budget plan when it comes to Medicare. “I think the Republicans are too far out in front in terms of Medicare... I think Paul Ryan is too far out front with this issue.”
*** The “ultimate blowhard”: But the rest of the interview made Trump appear more like Charlie Sheen than your typical presidential candidate. He boasted that his wealth is higher than Forbes’ estimate of $2.7 billion. “I have a great company. Very under-leveled. Tremendous amounts of cash. And a huge net worth. Much higher than anybody has really said.” When Trump disagreed with raising the debt ceiling, he said, “What do they know, the economists? Most of them are not very smart.” In his column today, David Brooks explains why some people like Trump. “Many people regard Trump as a joke and his popularity a disgrace. But he is actually riding a deep public fantasy: The hunger for the ultimate blowhard who can lead us through dark times.”
*** Well-versed on financial-disclosure requirements: Here’s a final point on Trump: Why does he know much about the financial-disclosure requirements for presidential candidates? And how does he know that the FEC allows 60-day extensions on that requirement. Check out what he told Guthrie: “If I announce … you’re allowed to do it in 30 days. But they give you a 60-day extension. I don’t need any extensions, because on that I’m already working.” Does Trump sound like a candidate anxious to disclose his real net worth? How important is the perception of wealth to Trump? Bottom line: Trump knows he can be an active candidate for a good two months before revealing a single thing about his personal finances. Hmmm.
*** The races of 2011: With Congress on its two-week recess, First Read will spend the next few days profiling some of the more noteworthy political races of 2011. First up: West Virginia’s gubernatorial contest. The incumbent is acting Gov. Earl Ray Tomblin (D), who filled Joe Manchin’s (D) office after he embarked on his Senate bid. While Tomblin is probably the favorite in the May 14 primary, he faces a crowded field of Democratic challengers -- including the state Treasurer (John Perdue), the Secretary of State (Natalie Tennant), and the state House speaker (Rick Thompson). The GOP primary is equally crowded. The top two Republicans are probably former Secretary of State Betty Ireland and businessman Bill Maloney. Republicans didn't get the candidate they wanted (Shelley Moore Capito), and so Democrats are viewed as the slight favorite to hold the seat. But nothing is certain until these messy primaries are sorted out. The special general election date is Oct. 4.
*** Brewer vetoes AZ’s “birther” bill: It appears Arizona’s governor did the GOP a favor for the fall of 2012. The Arizona Republic: “Gov. Jan Brewer on Wednesday shot down an effort by the Arizona Legislature to require presidential candidates to provide proof of citizenship in order to get on the state's ballot. In her veto letter, Brewer said House Bill 2177 ‘creates significant new problems while failing to do anything constructive for Arizona.’ The House and Senate could override the governor's veto with a two-thirds majority vote in each chamber, but on Monday, such a move appeared unlikely.”
Countdown to NY-26 special election: 35 days
Countdown to Iowa GOP straw poll: 115 days
Countdown to Election Day 2011: 203 days
Countdown to the Iowa caucuses: 293 days
* Note: When the IA caucuses take place depends on whether other states move up
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Well it appears that three GOP State Senators and one Democratic State Senator will be facing a recall in Wisconsin and more to follow in the upcoming weeks. Looks like the people are speaking in Wisconsin and this is not finished yet. Walker will be recalled in 2012.
The Governor of Arizona did not sign the AZ Birther Bill yesterday. Somebody send Trump a memo. Kansas on the other hand is trying to pass a Birther Bill even more restrictive than the one proposed by AZ. The ultimate goal again by the GOP/TP is the disenfranchisement of the voting rights of Citizens by trying to make it harder to register to vote for people of modest means, the elderly, college students etc. that typically vote democratic. No more voter registrations at rallies, etc. You must now go to a specific location and present a birth certificate or passport to register. Not even a valid driver’s license is ok anymore. This will not pass on constitutional grounds but they are going to try.
Just like the 17 or so States that now have abortion laws that violate the Supreme Court Rowe vs. Wade decision. Why has this not come up at SCOTUS yet? Because many are saying that the right wing political fundraisers cloaked as Supreme Court Justices would rule in favor of repealing Rowe vs. Wade and they do not want to take that chance yet. As more and more information comes to light on the Ryan Bill and when voters learn almost anything about it they turn intensely against it. And they should. According to an analysis by the non-partisan Center for Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP), the GOP (Ryan) “Roadmap to Oligarchy” would end most of government programs while providing the largest tax cuts in history for the wealthy. This Bill will also destroy Medicare and Medicaid as we know it and only God knows what they are planning for Social Security. These are Social Programs that 70% or more of the American people do not want the GOP to mess with. Tell me again how the GOP listens to the people.
The assessment from the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) is that the Ryan plan raises, not lowers, the cost of insurance. The CBO assessment implies that the Ryan plan would raise the cost to the country of buying Medicare equivalent policies by $20.5 trillion over the next 75 years (Medicare's planning period). This amount is almost four times as large as the projected Social Security shortfall. It comes to more than $60,000 for every man, woman, and child in the country. While this extra cost would not be borne by the government under the Ryan plan, it implies an enormous burden on future generations of retirees who may have to spend more than half of their income on health care. Remember that the Ryan Plan shifts the costs from the government to the individual Medicare Beneficiaries knowing that the escalating costs will make Medicare unaffordable for most of our seniors making Medicare a program only for those that can afford the large premiums. The rest will be thrown out into the street to fend for themselves and many will die due to the lack or proper Health Care.
Reuters' James Pethokoukis has written that the “Ryan's plan may prove to be “a 73-page suicide note” for the party.
Last year, when the GOP/TP took control of the House, they convinced themselves falsely that the American public had handed them a mandate. No they did not. But believing their own spin, the GOP has dramatically over-reached since then, pi$$ing off swing voters with it DRACONIAN agenda. This is playing out in many States. Talking Points Memo (TPM) has noted “Wisconsin's Scott Walker (R), Ohio's John Kasich (R), and Michigan's Rick Snyder (R) have seen their approval ratings fall to the point that polls show them losing hypothetical do-over elections with the candidates they beat last year” and now it's beginning to show in the national polls and in the people of those States recalling their previously elected officials.
This country should never see a day that a child goes hungry, that any person is denied medical care. We should never see people sleeping in card board boxes and their children or themselves denied the opportunity to better themselves through education and a decent job. The American Dream is becoming an nightmare and the list goes on. This is just wrong and saddens this old heart to no end. We, as a Nation, are better than that and our citizens deserve to be treated equally and with respect. This “Class Based Society” [of those that have and those that never will] that the GOP/TP wants to create is not compatible with democracy as we know it. One of them has to fail.
This is not over people by a long shot. In fact the battle is just now starting to heat up.
Standard and Poors Smack-Down Colors Me Curious
Depending on how you see it, the S&P forecast is not as dark as it seems. In fact, the darker side of me finds it rather suspect. While on the other hand it I see this forecast bright and cheerfully. .
First before I detail my reasons for this dichotomy I suggest everyone to click on the link below. George W Bush has given a thought in one sentence.
George W Bush
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/themes/chimpy/images/@!$%#edyouall.jpg
Isn’t it peculiar that the S&P one of the big 3 raters didn’t see the 2008 collapse under GW Bush? Moody on the contrary gives a different analysis.
Therefore, I see these possible outcomes.
The GOP/T-Baggers in Congress need to STOP taking America hostage. Using hostage taking threats by wanting ideological cutting and no new sources of revenue is not good for the GOP/T-Baggers or America. In other words the rich need to pay their fair share of taxes and George Bush’s tax cuts for multi/billionaires, oil companies, and Wall Street never should be enacted again. People, we the middle class, the poor, disabled, retired and little children are the stock exchanged for this largess George Bush gave!!!!
We should encourage our representative to raise the debt ceiling; least not only do we collapse but so does the world. Remember the cliché when America sneezes the world gets a cold?
The American economy is strong the S&P forecast says it’s dynamic the most important in the world/ That is excellent. The importance of the S&P is for both sides to come together and follow the leader of the free world , President Obama wants from compromise and bipartisanship.
So I ‘m hoping my perspective is something that I can use to add a shade of brightness other than the conventional steady doom and gloom described in the MSM; especially FOX.
All this color lore has a lot to do with communication, if the Republican/Tea Baggers in Congress would just look on the brighter side of what the S&P has said; and why they need to world together for a brighter American future.
Phil Flynn, an oil analyst with PFGBest in Chicago said-- Let's face it, it's a wake-up call,". "S&P has sent us a warning sign, and, in the meantime, the market is pricing in the 'what if?'"
Gov. Jan Brewer has vetoed a bill passed by the Arizona legislature.
“I never imagined being presented with a bill that could require candidates for President of the greatest and most powerful nation on earth to submit their ‘early baptismal or circumcision certificates’… this is a bridge too far. This measure creates significant new problems while failing to do anything constructive for Arizona.”
Kudos, Gov. Jan Brewer who has never been one of my favs; but I will give credit when it’s due.
United We Stand Collapsed We Fall
Today’s WSJ had a couple of entertaining articles. First, as you might expect, the WSJ did a more in-depth analysis of Barry’s tax return than most media outlets. One item of note is that Barry reduced his U.S. income tax bill by taking a $22,215 Foreign Tax Credit on income from sales of his books overseas. This is the VERY SAME TAX CREDIT that the unions and lefty liberals decry and wail about being an “incentive to ship jobs overseas”. That Barry pocketed over $22,000 from this perfectly legal, but, absolutely evil tax credit is Hillaryous!!!!!
Second, is a story on the Treasury’s plan to sell the rest of its stock from the Govt Motors/UAW bailout this summer. The story notes that, in order for taxpayers to just break even, the price would have to be $53.00 per share. GM closed yesterday at just under $29.00, down from its November IPO price of $33.00. At Monday’s price, the taxpayers would take a hosing of $11 billion. No word on if, or when, the taxpayers can ever expect to see dollar one back from the billions for the Chrysler/UAW bailout. It sure is a good thing the taxpayers made many billions in profit on the big Wall Street bank and AIG TARP loans and stock purchases.
If you would of asked me a week ago, if I thought the ‘Donald’ was serious about running for President, I would of fallen off my chair laughing!
The ONLY thing bigger than the Donald’s hair is his EGO!
Now I’m not so sure…
No one craves attention quite like Trump and thanks to the MSM 24/7 coverage of every outrageous remark that comes out of his mouth & rising poll numbers amongst the stuck on stupid crowd I think he might actually make a run for it!
And to that I say, BRING IT!
Keep chumming the waters with the birther nonsense Donald, there's nothing better around to get the tea baggers worked up!
Silly season in politics has come early this year, that's for sure!
Elections Do Have Consequences:
Not quite 6 months have passed since the November 2010 elections and the GOP/TP shellacked the Democrats in a number of elections. Tea Partiers won a majority of seats in the House of Representatives and won a number of state governorships.
In this short period of time the GOP/TP agenda is clearly manifest in a variety of states. Perhaps what is most significant is the coordinated, even orchestrated, efforts by the various governors. Governor Scott Walker wanted to break the union of public workers in Wisconsin. Governor Paul LePage removes a union mural in the Maine Capital building. Governor Daniels restricts teachers' union bargaining rights in Indiana. Ohio's Governor, John Kasich, slashes social services and encouraged the passage of education laws that harm public education.
Jan Brewer (Az), Chris Christie (NJ) and Rick Scott (Fl) are all touting right wing agenda topics including anti-immigration practices, restricting abortions, slashing unemployment benefits, and busting unions. The point here is that the conservative right is creating a backdrop of destruction that is destroying the middle class families of America. There is no doubt about it.
The voting public is taking notice of this hidden agenda and, while the GOP/TP may be pleased with this turn of events, the majority of Americans are not so impressed. The majority of Americans believe unions have a place on the American landscape, public education is how most Americans were educated and teachers are a valuable asset, restrictive immigration policies is not the American way, and a safety net of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid for our seniors is the right thing to do.
Oh, and elections do have consequences. Now that the Tea Party has shown its agenda, their ideas of governing is not what the American people have in mind. Whatever the Tea Party governors put in place now will be changed in 2012. Democrats want to take our country forward, not backward.
Bev:
Great post. More smoke and mirrors. S&P has missed the mark before just look at how they screwed up ratings on Insurance Companies and Financial Institutions in the past.
Did Obama’s tough speech last week backfire?... Standard & Poor’s wake-up call…
_____________________________________________
Today's WSJ editorial page is making the point that Barry's sharply partisan speech last week is a major reason why S&P downgraded the US debt rating to "negative". Um, yeah, when you invite one of the key people in the solution discussion to sit in the front row of your speech and then get up in his face, outside observers are probably going to conclude an agreement is being made much more difficult.
Feisty and Ron:
Could not have said it better. The sleeper has awaken and he is powerfully hungry. Every day we see more and more about the hypocrisy of the GOP/TP Agenda. They talk about JOBS, stimulating the economy, improving education and then do just the opposite. They have push this country into such turmoil that nobody dares guess where we are going, let alone know. This is also part of their agenda, to divide this country to a point where we become impotent as a nation.
Ya'think? Here you have Obama's own Debt Commission ringing the warning bell on Obama's spending. Rep Paul Ryan articulates that the debt/deficit problem is real and provides a solid plan to address the issue, and now the S&P warns that Americas debt/deficit is a huge problem and our credit rating is in jeopardy because of it. And Obama? He esstentially ignores the problem, gives a partisan campaign speech to downplay the issue, downplays that there is any kind of a problem at all, and he demands that the Debt Ceiling be raised without conditions. And the People of the country know the score, they know the debt/deficit is a real problem that needs a real solution, and they know Obama isn't up to the job of addressing the issue.
So how is it a surprise that Obama is once again failing with the People.
You think S & P made a mistake on changing the rating? Well, I guess it is true- liberals, ( and I include Obama in this characterization) do not understand simple, third grade arithmetic.
The debt is too large. The debt is too high. We owe too much money. Is there another, simpler way I can put it, so you will understand?
Another issue is Obama's deliberate misunderstanding of the rating change. PIMCO has been selling our binds for months- not that the media noticed- because they expect a higher return for the risk they are taking. S & P changed from stable to negative because the DEBT IS TOO HIGH, and they do not believe Obama and the democrats will agree with republicans to reduce the debt. They pretty clear on that.
So, what was Obama's take? He believes it is because he thinks the republicans are playing politics with raising the debt ceiling.
Is there anybody who can possibly give him a dose of reality? Anyone at all? Raising the debt ceiling is headed in the direction of a moot point- because, if no one buys the bonds, it does not matter how high your debt ceiling is- you cannot sell the bonds.
Worst. President. Ever.
Ron, All that "Hidden Agenda" crap sounded good until I pulled out my tax file yesterday. I paid out over $27,000 in Fed, State, and local taxes. If you ask people if they like unions most would say they do. If you ask people if they want to pay for unions most people would say they don't. I drive by a fire station here in Des Moines alot and the same "Union" fireman is sitting in the same chair talking on his cell phone leaning against the building every time I go by. I'm not happy about working until I'm 70 so this idiot can retire at 50. There is finally a party who is voting based on what is right and not on getting re-elected. Now you know my agenda.....
@USNV
You mean the entity that is $14T in the hole and adding $1.5T a year? So instead of criticizing the Ryan plan what is your proposed alternative?
@Ron
Hi Ron. Can please post some links of Chris Christie's remarks on restricting abortions and anti-immigration practices? For that matter can you post any links on anti-immigration practices or do you really mean anti ILLEGAL immigration practices? Maybe you should go back and read USNV posting on new restrictions on voter registration. Think this could be a backlash to continued reports that we have 12 - 20 million illegal aliens in the country? On your other point do you ever consider it is the public service unions that are destroying the middle class? I have yet hear one feasible solution as to how you can allow an employee to work for 25 years and then pay him pension and benefits for a further 25. I keep using the example of San Francisco where their pension costs are now equal to the operational costs of their departments. Hardly a bastion of right wing extremism. Problem is economics and demographics but you, and the current President don't want to admit that.
Last night on "The Last Word", Larry O'Donnell had an interesting conversation with the always-charming Prof. Melissa Harris-Perry of Princeton on the topic of the recent Standard and Poors' warning about the U.S. debt situation.
Among other things, Prof. Harris-Perry said:
"Are we in a financial crisis...? Absolutely."
Hmmm...pretty unambiguous statement.
And this:
"I think the problem is the Obama proposal has to be a clearer proposal. I think the President did an extraordinary job of stating a values framework and clarity about, um, sort of the issues we will use, but he didn't yet tell us what the plan is."
Indeed.
That is a problem, isn't it?
Still, it was refreshing to hear such a frank discussion of the debt crisis, and the President's response to it thus far, by two strong supporters of President Obama on a prime-time MSNBC program.
As far as last Wednesday's Presidential address goes, it was simply too partisan and made the task of achieving broad bipartisan agreements on raising the debt ceiling and producing a plan to address the debt crisis much more difficult.
The fact that First Read is asking whether or not the speech backfired tells you all you need to know.
@NJNBNJ
Not exactly true unfortunately. They sold all their US Bonds and are now shorting them.
On another issue it is being reported that Japan, who also have deep government debt issues, may have to sell the $900B they have in US treasuries to pay for reconstruction after the Tsunami.
Maybe 2012 is not the end of the world just the end of the financial world.
Never have we needed a tighter focus on education than we do now. Yet, Republicans are determined to cut education funding. Why? Because only the uneducated, ignorant, and/or stupid will swallow their talking points/swill.
Start here! Government is the problem, not the solution. Really? It's worked just fine for John Boehner and Mitch McConnell, both of whom have spent several decades at the government trough. There's plenty more Republicans just like them. At the beginning of the 111th Congress, average length of time on the government dole for G.O.P. Republicans - 10 years; average for G.O.P. Senators - 12 years. Source: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R40086.pdf. Plenty of time to see we had a financial problem, wouldn't you say? This of course, leads to another fabulous talking point:
We don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem. Give 'em credit for getting this one half-right. Republicans are terribly fond of telling us - now that they have re-discovered fiscal conservatism - the first thing you do with your household budget is to cut spending. True. Yet, when that's not enough, you start talking about ways to increase income/revenue. Maybe a part-time job. Maybe the one who stays home is going to have to find work. Oh yes, in our guts, we know we are going to have to increase revenue. This of course, leads to another talking point and outright lie:
47% of Americans pay no federal taxes. That's pure crap! As a matter of fact there truly are a few folks don't pay federal taxes - very few. However, here's the truth. Anyone who works for an employer will pay FICA taxes. Self-employed folks pay FICA based on their profits. No profits - no FICA. But here's where the G.O.P. lie truly becomes obvious. ANYONE who purchases goods and/or services is paying the taxes of the person from whom they made their purchase. ALL merchants are de facto tax collectors for various government jurisdictions. A landlord gets his property taxes from his renter. The plumber gets his FICA and income taxes from his customers. Retailers collect sales taxes. That's right! ANYONE who makes a purchase is paying taxes - including federal income tax. It may not be directly levied on the purchaser, but they aren't getting a free ride. Which leads to the next talking point:
The rich are staggering under the horrible tax bite. More crap! This is an obvious lie. No one can produce a single statistic that shows the rich have been harmed by current tax rates. Indeed, every single measure shows their wealth is increasing.
Don't let Republicans cut education. We can't afford to be stupid.
Other than Obama and the Democrats, there is no one that advocates additional debt for the country. The only ones downplaying the problem are Obama and the Liberals in the Democratic party. As Mixed Bag has been saying, if the US loses its AAA bond rating, interest rates would need to rise, and if the rise to 6%, the interest payments on a $14 trillion debt would jump to $840 billion a year. Understand that the federal government only takes in $2.3 trillion a year, so over 36% of the US budget will be for payment of debt service alone.
And Obama is downplaying this problem.
Good morning Navy , I hope you don't mind me piggy backing. We have the similar views this morning, so why not make the message more potent
Last year, when the GOP/TP took control of the House, they convinced themselves falsely that the American public had handed them a mandate.
Yup, they did which gives more credence, at least to me, minute by minute, day by day; how delusional this crop of the GOP/T-BAGGERS are.
Paul Ryan should be asked to explain why he thought SS was good for him but isn't for Americans who worked very hard to put money in the US Treasury. Hell, his grandmother gets Medicare. It was in the Chicago tribune that he says the rosary every day because he fears for this country. Hummm, did he feel that way when he got his government checks? Or was it after he became a Koch operative? Can't blame him there they like basebal bats
In Wisconsin 7,000 votes suddenly appear, and folks aren’t supposed to see this as the voter fraud that it visibly is? Yea, and I believe in miracles too!!!
I love it. President Obama is right. The GOP/T-BAGGERS think we're stupid and that hey can nickel and dime us.
Arizona, I really am happy Gov Brewer showed some courage by vetoing that preposterous bill.
However, I do have one question...
Did she have an Alzheimer's or TIA moment?
Federal income taxes. The bottom 50% of wage earners only pay 2.7% of the federal income taxes.
Source: http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html
@Bev
I don't know how old his mother is but I'm guessing that when she retired there were more workers to retirees paying into the system. You don't really get this demographic shift stuff do you?
US Navy, Beverly, Feisty Redhead, Ron--great posts.
Once again the media is attempting to write the storyline. 47% positive approval for President Obama in a country deeply divided is pretty darn good. I just have to shake my head at FR's suggestion that it was President Obama's speech that forced the S & P to make their announcement, or that people aren't happy with what the President said. That's just spin to get this FR board lit up.
Bev:
Thank you for sharring the ride. Your posts are right on.
Seems we have been on the same page a lot lately.
Bev and Navy- refusing to see reality does not alter reality. Republicans WERE given a mandate- to stop the spending, repeal HCR, and, by so doing, improve the economy.
The fact that you do not know how that works is immaterial.
The fact that Obama does not know how it works is terrifying.
The independents have fled. That he started his re election campaign before any other sitting president will not give him an edge- take a look at where his rating ended up in December, where they are now after his January bump, and then ask yourself how well his campaigning serves him.
I believe there are two reasons for this: first, it is impossible to be Zelig when you have a record the media cannot deep six. Second, when he twists the truth, and outright lies, in his speeches, voters see someone completely out of touch with reality.
The GOP will not get on his accelerated schedule. Too bad for Obama. Once there IS a candidate, Obama is going to have a pretty hard time of it- particularly during the debates. I do not think miles of rhetoric while not answering the questions put to him will work this time out.
He is destroying this country. I only pray we survive to have a president to put right what he has broken.
47% of Americans pay no federal taxes.
_________________________________
David Walker: That's a lame attempt to lie to all the low information lefty liberals reading your post.
The actual stat you are misquoting (intentionally, IMHO) is: 47% of Americans pay no federal INCOME tax.
And it comes right from the IRS that is headed by an Obama appointee. Are you saying Obama's IRS commissioner is lying to the American people??
JoAnnaSmith1
Other than Obama and the Democrats, there is no one that advocates additional debt for the country. The only ones downplaying the problem are Obama and the Liberals in the Democratic party. As Mixed Bag has been saying, if the US loses its AAA bond rating, interest rates would need to rise, and if the rise to 6%, the interest payments on a $14 trillion debt would jump to $840 billion a year. Understand that the federal government only takes in $2.3 trillion a year, so over 36% of the US budget will be for payment of debt service alone.
And Obama is downplaying this problem.
=============================================================
Lady Jo
Did you what George Bush, rather frankly, had to say?
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/themes/chimpy/images/@!$%#edyouall.jpg
Bag:
And the very first sentence in Paul Ryan's budget paper was: “Where the president has failed, House Republicans will lead.” But that's not too partisan for you, is it? It's good to have standards. You've got two of them to apply for different occasions.
David Walker, great post as well.
Every person pays taxes in some form or another. When income taxes are cut, property taxes, sales and gas taxes, local option sales taxes inevitably increase to meet the shortfall created by reduced income taxes in order to increase local and state revenues so that we have snowplow drivers, garbage collection, decent schools and teachers, along with keeping the streets free of pot holes.
@David and Bev
Sorry David for some it is too late.
Jody, I do not know what you eat for breakfast, but it is causing you to have delusions.
I am one who constantly decries Obama's outrageous spending, and even I know that the federal government does not pay for local garbage collection.
The nonsense has to stop. The free ride is over. We borrow forty cents of every dollar the federal government spends- it is unsustainable.
In other words, the federal budget must be cut. Deeply and permanently. We will either do it by choice, or it will be forced on us by an inability to sell bonds.
It does not get much clearer than that. That liberals and Obama do not understand this fundamental fact does not alter it.
After reading this article about Paul Ryan, I have just one question for the Congressman who took advantage of Social Security survivor benefits to finance his education and helped take care of his grandmother with Alzheimers, saying that the experience taught him how social programs (i.e., Medicare/Medicaid) work.
http://www.wpri.org/WIInterest/Vol19No2/Schneider19.2.html
How on earth does Ryan think that his puny "vouchers" would be sufficient to provide the necessary care for someone who has Alzheimers disease, EVEN IF that person could find any coverage to begin with?
Hypocrisy, thy name is Paul Ryan.
Alan, NJ-
Interesting point on the $900 billion in U.S. debt currently held by the Japanese. There has been speculation about whether or not the Japanese will self off some of that debt to finance reconstruction in the wake of last month's devastating earthquake and tsunami.
The amount of U.S. debt held by Japan tells you that they have been a major player in the U.S. debt market. Whether they liquidate some of the debt they currently hold or not, they are not likely to be major purchasers of new U.S. debt in the near future...they'll have their hands full rebuilding the northeast coast of Japan.
Also, the Fed's QE2 buy-back of $600 billion in U.S. debt is winding down...that's more demand seeping from the market, putting more upward pressure on interest rates.
Senator Tom Coburn (R-OK), a member of the President's debt commission and one of the "Gang Of Six", has said that each 1% rise in interest rates causes debt service payments to rise by $150 billion.
The President needs to mend fences with the GOP and act forcefully to get a broad bipartisan agreement to address the nation's long-term debt immediately before he's completely overtaken by events.
Last week's speech didn't help matters, did it?
Gosh! Palin, Bachman and Trump. What a selection to draw from. I'm so excited by all of them I just don't know which to choose to vote for.
Well, I guess I'll just have to vote for my old standby, President Obama. At least he makes sense when he speaks.
Good point. One important piece of the current conservative plan is to go from a tax-based government to a fee-based government. All the other forms of taxes besides income tax are regressive, flat taxes that lay a proportionately heavier burden on those with lower income levels.
People seem to forget about that guy in Tennessee whose house burned down because he failed to pay the required fee for fire services. No doubt he believed his taxes were too high and he shouldn't have to pay for that, but as the house was burning he begged the same government that he had refused to fund to bail him out of trouble.
I have a feeling we will begin to see a lot of this as time goes by.
The whole point of taxation, as opposed to fees, as a means of funding governmental services is that it spreads the cost and risk out among the entire population. Ever since Ronald Reagan, we have definitely been missing the point.
.......................
Newsflash: This just in -- McDonald's is hiring. You won't get paid much, and the benefits are still lousy, thanks to their waiver from HCR, but hey ... what are you grousing about, all you lazy, unemployed free-loading liberal public employees? Do your patriotic duty and get out there and fry some French fries.
Love and compassion are "liberal" values.
________________________________________
Gee, AM, yesterday you said you would consider it "progress" to kill me with hemlock for having a different point of view than you on issues. Apparently, you consider murder another "liberal" value.
Well, AM, you think liberals have a copyright on love and compassion, but the rest of the country thinks you own the field of delusional thinking.
Ignoring a crisis does not make it go away.
We are in crisis. It is getting worse, ( and there were those of us who warned you, WAAAY back in 2009, that Obama was bankrupting the country), and the best liberals can contribute to the conversation is to being up that a sixteen year old whose father died received the SS benefits to which he was entitled for two years?
The sky really is plaid in Obamaland.
Joe in Albany
47% of Americans pay no federal taxes.
There you go again bashing those less fortunate. If you must get it on, how 'bout this...
If the republicans and George Bush hadn't driven this country to the brink of near depression, more would have better jobs and education to pay more taxes.
Better yet why are you not lambasting the ones who really pay no taxes like the bangstas and the filthy rich Koch brothers?
FYI: Those same people you're condescending on still pay taxes. They pay excise taxes.
First Read got nojonobo and the other wingnuts all giddy about the president's job approval falling. But it's interesting what First Read did NOT choose to report about this new poll: Obama beats EVERY one of the current bunch of potential Republican challengers, with Mitt Romney being the closest at 4 points behind Obama.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/economic-anxiety-threatens-obama-in-2012-but-in-poll-he-edges-gop-rivals/2011/04/18/AFUFQN2D_story.html?hpid=z1
First Read put out the dumb but wingnut-pleasing theory that Obama's speech caused his approval ratings to fall. But it turns out that my take on my reason, which I stated in post #19, is almost exactly the same as Dan Balz, who wrote the article on the poll:
But that makes too much sense when the corporate media herd has the long knives out for Obama because he dared to stand up to the Republicans in his speech.
If you live in the United States you pay some form of taxes. The problem is that the people and corporations, who are the richest, gain the most and don't pay enough. Hopefully, that will change.
Good morning everybody.
I will ask for your forgiveness and indulgence right up front. I'm going to go off topic.
Today, April 19, is the 16th Anniversary of the Murrah Building bombing that took over 160 lives here in Oklahoma City. No mention of it on MSNBC. How soon we forget.
When the bomb went off I was home, sick with my allergies which were particularly bad that year. I live 9 miles west and a little north of the the Murrah Building. I heard the explosion. It was so loud I thought it had occurred in my neighborhood. I went outside, along with many of my neighbors to see what had happened so we could direct the fire department to the appropriate house.
Seeing nothing I went back inside and turned on the television. Within minutes the local CBS affiliate had their news helicopter up and was broadcasting live from the chopper. Smoke was rising over downtown. My stomach turned over. They swung wide and to the west so we saw the smoke and the south face of the Murrah Building first. The reporter on board the chopper speculated it had been a natural gas explosion. As the chopper swung around the building so the camera faced the North side of the building we saw the devastation for the first time. My first thought was the Marine barracks in Beirut. I felt a pain, deep in my gut. The entire northern face of the building had collapsed into the street. I could see the flaming remnants of the truck, still burning in the street and I knew this was no natural gas explosion. This had been done by a bomb.
I sat down on the couch and stared at the television in shock. Absolute, numbing, mouth agape, shock.
I had been in the Murrah Building many times. I had been in the Federal Court Building just south of the Murrah Building countless times as a reporter. This was Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Who would do such a thing in Oklahoma City? It was a waking nightmare.
Only the people of New York City can know what it feels like. It is indescribable. I finally regained my composure enough to call my wife's office to make sure they were alright. Even though they were a good two or three miles north of the Murrah Building there was a lot of large, plate glass windows in that office and I wanted to make sure the shock wave hadn't blown out those windows and injured her or her staff.
I then called my office at the capitol complex to make sure they were all unhurt and then I sat back down in front of the TV and was overcome by the sheer, unbelievable horror that had occurred in my city. My home.
If you weren't here or in New York City six years later you have no idea what it is like. Nothing I can say can convey the emotion, the numbness, the horror or the heartbreak. Until the day I die I will never forget the picture of the Oklahoma City Fireman tenderly cradling the lifeless body of little Baylee Almon, not even one year old. A tiny sock dangled from one of her little feet. She died in the daycare center located on the first floor of the Murrah Building. I still cry when I think about that picture. That single image sums up the tragedy for me. My next door neighbors had both just retired from HUD. Their offices were housed in the Murrah Building. Everyone in that office was killed. Over the next two weeks they would attend 16 funerals.
For nearly 48 hours after the bombing no other crimes were committed in Oklahoma City. We were all in a state of shock.
So, here we are 16 years later and the memories of this day have faded for most of you. The tragedy that occurred here in Oklahoma City has been eclipsed by bigger disasters. 9/11, Tsunamis, Hurricanes, War. The Four Horsemen have been very busy in the intervening decade and a half.
So, why have I taken you precious time to remember this moment in history?
Because the Murrah Building is a symbol of what happens when people stop talking to one another. It is a symbol of what happens when one segment or another of society feels that no one is listening to them, or that justice somehow cries out for action. For the misguided like Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols their frustration with the system lead to the death of little Baylee Almon and over 160 other people who innocently went to work or had business that day in the Murrah Building.
So, as you, argue and insult one another today on FIRST READ and other blogs and message boards. While you anonymously insult and castigate each other for our percieved faults and short-comings please take a moment to remember Oklahoma City and Baylee Almon.
Remember, your words have consequences, sometimes tragic consequences.
I apologize once again for going off-topic and for the length of this post.
LoL Tom, this reminds me of something I wanted to say today. In 2008 as I surveyed both slates of presidential candidates during the debates, I recall thinking that I would have preferred any one of the democratic candidates over every one of the republican candidates.
This year, as I watch the republican field assemble, I keep thinking that I would have preferred any one of the republican candidates in 2008 to every one of the republican candidates right now.
No question that things are looking down for republicans. And keep going. The ditch awaits.
@ skipNicholson ~ Thank you VERY much for the reminder. I can't even imagine what something like that would be like in my hometown. I think one reason people in some circles tend not to remember is that in some ways, for some political partisans, the memory is particularly unpleasant.
Time heals, they say, but memory always remains.
Only when it concerns you, Joe. I classify that under "compassion."
(p.s. you do know I'm teasing you, don't you?)
If there was any mandate given to the GOP/TP it was to create JOBS, Stimulate the economy and improve Education. All things that the GOP/TP has failed to even address let alone do.
There was no mandate to trash the reproductive rights of women, there was no mandate for McCarthy style religious intolerant hearings. There was no mandate for denying equal rights to the gay community. There was no mandate for destroying Medicare and Medicaid. There was no mandate for the total destruction of Social Programs. But these are the very things that the GOP/TP has on their agenda.
We all agree that we have a spending and revenue problem. The democrats want everything on the table and the sacrifice to be shared by all. The GOP/TP on the other hand wants to cut programs for the middle class and poor, putting all the sacrifice on the backs of the middle class while they give give huge tax breaks to the richest 2%. Is that the mandate you are talking about. I do not think that is what the American people had in mind.
Houston-
"Where President Obama has failed, House Republicans will lead."
Were those words partisanship, or a statement of fact?
President Obama received the Plan from his own debt commission last December; in January, his Administration issued its FY 2012 budget proposal:
$3.7 trillion in spending, $1.1 trillion of that borrowed; the addition of $13 trillion in new gross debt over 10 years (nearly doubling the debt already on the books); debt service payments to rise to $844 billion annually.
Does that sound like leadership in addressing the nation's crushing debt?
Would you like the names of Congressional Democrats pleading for White House leadership on this issue?
President Obama's response to the opening line of the summary of the Ryan budget should have been leadership; a detailed plan of his own.
I'm certain that's what members of his own party hoped for and expected.
They still don't have it.
@Houston
I fully expect President Obama to be re-elected. If the election was today there is not a viable Republican alternative. If Pawlenty, Daniels or Barbour get past the primaries (and that is a huge if) then I would say they are viable alternatives. That does not mean I think they would win the election. However, President Obama is vulnerable due to the weak economy and what I feel is weak leadership. He is the favorite right now but not unassailable.
The Repub and TP did not take over congress last year it was 3 months ago and this year.
Congress needs to start planning on the future after Obama is replaced by the American people. We need to have a Finacial plan in place and be ready to hit the ground running. The Ryan plan has some positive's but can be improved on.
Bag:
You whine about partisanship, and then try to pretend that Ryan's bitter ad hominem and partisan attack was a "fact" when fair and rational people would call it an opinion -- to be kind to Ryan. It appeared to me that President Obama's assertion that the Republicans intend to dismantle the social contract we've had for decades is a statement of fact. Obama was too kind. If he weren't the diplomatic sort, he would have pointed out that Ryan was a con artist.
No one said that was the "best" that liberals can contribute, no joe. It's just one good and timely example of conservative hypocrisy. You obviously expect me to feel compassion for Ryan, and I do. It must have been hard to lose his father at such an early age. And his life after that was no doubt not as easy as it could have been.
I don't begrudge him those benefits, no joe. I'm a liberal.
But you don't voice that same compassion for anyone else. And neither does he.
There are lots of things that we could do that would not require the sacrifice of vital services like Medicare and Medicaid. And yet that's what you and your hard-hearted conservative friends always gravitate to first.
Compassion IS a liberal value, no joe.
What conservatives lack in compassion they make up for with a distinct failure of imagination.
David Walker,
I am gonna have to call BS on this statement.
According to everything that I can find--that is the average length of service by all congressional leaders--not just the GOP--gotta love the left and their biases reporting.
The 110th & 111th were almost the same.
Congress
Congress
This is for the 112th Congress--
And our new congress the average length of terms went down--because of all the newly elected members.
Unless you take each individual representative and add the number of terms they get elected--you are gonna have a hard time finding the average of GOP Representatives & Senators. And the average went down this past election--because there were so many new elected members to the house.
Maybe Boehner & McConnell have been there a life time, kinda like Frank Lautenberg--87 years old in the Senate or Frank Hall, 87 years old in the House. When are you folks on the left gonna start calling for Term Limitations for Congress--I believe there should be an amendment for that--6 terms for House, 2 terms for Senate. Then you won't get as stale a government as we have.
Joe in Albany, I used to think the editorial board of the Wall Street Journal had some kind of special knowledge of financial systems, and were above my head, until I started watching Wall Street Week in Review on PBS, and I realized they are just a bunch of Republican hacks.
Did they for-see the financial crisis? No. Did they warn about the housing collapse. No. Did they defend the outrageous salaries and bonuses of the executives whose poor judgment lead to a global catastrophe? Yes.
Frankly, there are very few editorial boards these days whose opinion I give more weight to than the taxi driver who brought me home from the supermarket last week. At least he had an interesting life story.
Anna Molly
Here's another good example: Our beloved Governor Goodhair Perry down here in Texas wants the big bad federal government to DO SOMETHING about the wild fires caused by a major drought over much of the state. I wonder what Perry will do once he's seceded from the Union like he threatened to do after Obama was elected.
If I were Obama, I'd be tempted to tell Perry to show some personal responsibility and put out his own d@mn fires.
Wrong, Houston-
I pointed out that Congressional Democrats are begging President Obama for leadership on the debt crisis as well.
That's bipartisanship, isn't it?
Joe in Albany
47% of Americans pay no federal taxes.
There you go again bashing those less fortunate.
_______________________________________
Bev, go back and reread my post slowly. The only one I'm "bashing" is David Walker for his (intentionally, IMHO) misleading statement/uotright lie. I made no comment about the 47%.
(p.s. you do know I'm teasing you, don't you?)
________________________________
AM: I did consider that a strong possibility, but, decided that murder could not be ruled given your choice of profession.
Thank you for clarifying that for me. :~)
And why didn't republicans, who controlled Congress and The White House from 2001 to 2006, enact term limits to fulfill Newt Gingrich's original Contract on America?
I think we know, don't we? Because the whole thing was nothing but lies, right from the start.
Such hypocrites all you conservatives are. Now you're trying to blame democrats for failing to enact your own idea, which you failed to enact when you had the chance.
Just like immigration reform and a lot of other things you seem to have missed during those years.
...........
@ Judge Joe ~
I practice "civil" law, Joe, not "uncivil" law. ;-)
...........
@ Houston ~
EXACTLY. ;-)
I drive by a fire station here in Des Moines alot and the same "Union" fireman is sitting in the same chair talking on his cell phone leaning against the building every time I go by.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
This has to be the dumbest thing I have ever read here, and that's saying a lot...
Sorry you missed that union "bum" running INTO A BURNING BUILDING to save the lives of those inside. I am sure your job requires you to breathe in hazardous materials and risk your life and health too. They have some nerve retiring at 50, when poor you has to drive by their firehouse until you are 70. They really have it made.
As to cell phones; there's a nice collection of fused and melted ones belonging to other union fireman/bums who apparently lost them in some tower thing in 2001.
You are a great American...
Marist poll is out. Obama is upside down by five points.
And the number of people who understand that the country is headed in the wrong direction is simply astronomical.
Please provide a link that proves that this was voter fraud. You are a typical liberal. If things do not turn out the way you want it, you cry voter fraud.
David,
I think we all agree with this. The easiest way to increase revenue is to cut out all the deductions and loopholes in our tax code. Then we could lower the percentage rate of all taxes and still take in more than we do today, with our wonderful progressive tax system.
I mean look at our President--$245,000 to charity this past year--a great & wonderful thing--but $245,000 tax write-off.
And how about that WSJ article with another $22,000 foreign tax credit--another write-off. There is another $80,000 that the federal government lost out on--because of our tax codes--1 family at 30%--heck even at 15% or half of what he paid--we could have supported 1 more teacher.
People don't need more taxation--they need less codes.
And according to the IRS--47% of the people in 2009 did not pay any federal INCOME taxes--while the top 1% paid more in actual dollars than the lower 95%. Do others pay sales taxes, state taxes. Yes--everyone knows that--but those federal programs--supported by 53% of the people--are used by the 47% more than the rest.
You all seem to want redistribution of wealth--that is wrong. You should work for what you get--if you need a hand--I don't mind helping--but not for a lifetime. And expecting those with money to keep giving it to a government that only wants your vote--because the welfare system isn't getting people off of it--isn't going to be there forever. Because they'll take their money and leave.
Houston!
First Read got nojonobo and the other wingnuts all giddy about the president's job approval falling. But it's interesting what First Read did NOT choose to report about this new poll: Obama beats EVERY one of the current bunch of potential Republican challengers, with Mitt Romney being the closest at 4 points behind Obama.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/economic-anxiety-threatens-obama-in-2012-but-in-poll-he-edges-gop-rivals/2011/04/18/AFUFQN2D_story.html?hpid=z1
First Read put out the dumb but wingnut-pleasing theory that Obama's speech caused his approval ratings to fall. But it turns out that my take on my reason, which I stated in post #19, is almost exactly the same as Dan Balz, who wrote the article on the poll:
But that makes too much sense when the corporate media herd has the long knives out for Obama because he dared to stand up to the Republicans in his speech.
Thank you so much Houston!
That was my first reaction too. I knew when I saw those numbers on Morning Joke it would be the talking point of the century. I understand the media needs to sell their sponsors products and fill space. But wouldn’t it be nice if the media would tout that the mountain of opposition the President gets from negative media like FOX and all the right wing media that's out there.
The least MSNBC could do is interpret how and why such as you have. Hell, in some places people can only get Fox and Rush Limbaugh.
Again Thanks
Maybe some one can see the difference and how these speculators are driving up prices.
Well, somethings rotten in Denmark - oops I mean WI:
Yeppers on that one. Seceder Ricky boy has his hand out begging the gov'mint to help the folks who are loosing their fine billionaire country homes to this fire out around Possum Kingdom Lake; a large area of McMansions built far far away from the little people who pay taxes. Other areas have been burning for days out West but when it started edging in on rich folks homes he goes straight to DC hat in hand.
Hypocrisy is thy name TEXAS conservative crowd. The Democrats of this state will be back in the driver's seat in this state if you people don't jump off the crazy train and get real. To quote one of your own: "We can't afford to be stupid." I would augment by adding: We can't afford to let corporations and the weathy to continue to be greedy either. The Texas "rainy day fund" can't even save our collective arses from what has infected the entire country since Our Little Georgy Boy came home from leaving a mess in our nation's capital and around the world and the mess has caused chaos. Surprised? I wasn't. I told everyone that would listen to me down here what was coming back in the early oughts.
The conservative crowd have practiced hypocrisy so long and so well they believe their own crap these days. Perfect hypocrisy usually bite ones in the posterir eventually. It is at this turning point America finds itself and WE MUST CHOOSE CORERECTLY IN 2012!
VOTE DEMOCRATIC FOR TRUTH & THE SALVATION OF THE COUNTRY!
Anna Molly,
I have called for term limitations since I was old enough to vote. I had a wonderfully drunk House of Reps member in my neighborhood. He was there way too long--but old people and war mongers loved him. Heck they even made a movie about him. But in reality--the guy wouldn't even pay the paper boy for the local newspaper--I know--I was that paperboy. And he didn't get his local paper until he paid his bills. And I wouldn't take checks--because he also wrote the "Hottest" checks in Washington.
Like, you, I am only 1 vote--trying to convince others that we need to vote. From my very first post on here--I have always called for term limitations & reformed tax codes.
If the people rise up together and call for term limitations--we could get them. Heck, lets us the state convention way instead of Congress--because you and I both know they won't do it to themselves.
david walker - you talk about pure crap?? while you are spewing out pure crap? Humorous to say the least...
Your first sentence make sense, the rest doesn't because YOU can't answer the following..."Why has ever increasing spending for education in the US still results in the US decline in k-12 rankings compared to other countries?" Obviously $$$ isn't it.
How quaint david. Shouldn't it be that "political devisiveness is the problem"? As for your link, it failed to bring up the facts you stated. BTW - why didn't you also report on the democrats, hiding something??
While you seem to understand this you fail to realize the implications of obama and company wanting to maintain the status quo on entitlements. Perhaps you have heard the term "baby boomers"? Current medicare doesn't address the increased funding needs and ever increasing medical costs. Do you really think that obamas vague plan of capping medical cost will work? If wage/prices freezes didn't work in the 70's why will they work now?
Of course obama is concerned about our seniors, so much so that he cut $500 billion from medicare as part of obamacare.
I really do love this one from you...
WTF are you talking about? I don't think they are! Why do you?
Loved your last sentence, for apparently despite ever increasing educational funding and the creation of a federal dept of education it seems that you still are educationally challenged.
47% of Americans pay no federal taxes. That's pure crap!
The rest of your paragraph meanders down a rhetorical diatribe that makes little sense. Are you saying that republicans lied about the end user actually paying the taxes of those they are purchasing services from, if so, how so? As for FICA the employer pays half, the employee pays half only up to a certain level of income. About that 47% it is really now only 45%...
There are so many breaks that 45 percent of U.S. households will pay no federal income tax for 2010, according to estimates by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42633769/ns/business-your_retirement
The rich are staggering under the horrible tax bite.
More crap!
Bev, there was a clerical error made in reporting the numbers out to the Associated Press. One entire town was omitted.
From the reports I have read on line, even the liberals in Wisconsin are not making the case for voter fraud. They are complaining about something along the lines of having been fooled into thinking they won, when they actually lost.
It is ridiculous. Unless the margin is ridiculously large, one should take early reports with a grain of salt. Also, the AP should have caught the fact that there were zero votes from one town- they would have caught the error before reporting a winner who turned out to be a loser.
david walker - you state...
how so? I don't recall anyone ever saying this but you.
Loved your last sentence, for apparently with ever increasing educational funding and the creation of a federal dept of education it seems that you still are educationally challenged.
Joe in Albany - 1.22
Yes, indeed I erred. I meant to say Federal income tax. That said, it does not alter the truth of what I posted in the slightest. All purchases of goods and/or services cover the costs of the merchant and that includes his/her federal income tax due, if any. Stuff the, "Are you saying........?" crap. The post is crystal clear.
Big Bear:
There was nothing biased about what I wrote. I cited facts. It is not Democrats who chant that government is the problem. That mantra, courtesy of St. Ronald of Reagan, has become a primary talking point of the right wing and Republicans. That was the point of the citation. It was and is accurate.
Here's how that shakes out. Whether using your citation or mine, the fact is the Republicans completely controlled the government for six years. They spent like drunks. Bush did not veto a single spending bill of consequence.
Now, they offer themselves as born-again tax cutters. If you're really looking for BS, that's where you'll find it - the G.O.P. Funny how you give them a pass, when they were right there leading the spending binge.
I have said time and again, I have little use for the spending habits of the Democrats. However, they have never held themselves out as paragons of fiscal virtuosity. The Republicans have. If the Democrats take this opportunity to make responsible cuts, raise taxes, and bring the budget into balance in fairly short order, they can destroy the insane right wing that now controls the Republican Party.
How nice it would be to have a Republican party that fights FOR America, not FOR America's destruction. It used to be that way, you know!
@ Feisty ~ Add to that stuff about Nickolaus the following --
In the 2006 election she reported more votes in her district for the attorney general election than the total number of votes cast -- and not just be a few -- by enough to swing the margin for the current republican AG, who is Scott Walker's lap dog on the current legislative fight. I think the General Accountability Board is taking a hard look at that.
I heard one person recount a first hand story of having been at the poll one day where Nickolaus was personally handing out ballots to voters that had already been marked. Ooops. Sounds like she had pre-pared the results that day, just in case her side needed help.
@ BigBear ~
Thanks for the clarificattion. I don't deny that term limits may be a problem. But it wasn't always. It's really only been a problem since corporate campaign contributions and appeasing lobbyists have become such important components of every Congressperson's raison d'etre. Take that away, and there's much less incentive for people to stay.
John, Tucson, AZ
Please provide a link that proves that this was voter fraud. You are a typical liberal. If things do not turn out the way you want it, you cry voter fraud.
Unlike you bigoted right wing world nuts I use my brain. Did you have proof ACORN was a fraud? No you suckers didn't
Look a here, the fact that Prosser doesn't want a recount proves it. You sap sucking right wing freaks are doing everything to tear this country down which includes economic hardship, and class warfare.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/team-prosser-we-will-object-to-any-recount.php
And why would a hag like that Waukesha County Clerk Kathy Nickolaus (R) announced the discovery of un-tabulated votes in the city of Brookfield -- giving Prosser a net gain.
Yea, keep it up bigots you need a miracle.
Well, maybe, and maybe not. If $$$ isn't determinative, then why is that rich districts always spend more? And they do. You can look that up.
But maybe the reason that $$$ doesn't always work is that $$$ is often spent on the wrong things -- such as No Child Left Behind, which has been demonstrated to be an abject failure. And money often has to be spent on things that we didn't used to spend money on and that don't directly support achievement -- e.g., police presence and security measures required because every nut job seems to have access to a gun these days. Think about it.
But even though NCLB failed, the education software industry, including the company owned by Neil Bush, no doubt made a bundle off of it. And now on to the next loony tunes idea, which in Wisconsin in de-limiting the amount that can be spent on charter schools and removing all local controls from them.
Why on earth, if you are correct, are we taking the limits off what the state can spend on charter schools? Shouldn't they be able to do with less?
Or isn't that the point?
David,
If you look in the above posts--you will find you mistakes with your so called facts.
Did the GOP Spend like drunken sailors--heck yes?
Has the Democratic party ever cut spending? I can't find it.
Real Facts:
Since 1933--the Democrats have had complete control of the Congress 29 of the 39 congresses.
They have controlled the House of Representatives--31 of those 39 congresses.
They have controlled the Senate 29 of the 39 congresses.
Leaving the GOP in complete control of both houses 8 times
The GOP controlled the Senate an extra 2 times for a total of 10 times.
Which party has given us the entitlement programs that are sending our country into bankruptcy.
Social Security Act--1935--Democratic President--Democratic Congress--today--20% of budget
Medicare/Medicaid--1965--Democratic President--Democratic Congress--today--23% of budget
That is 43% of our federal budget--Another 20% goes to military--which I have always said could be cut--Just like Navy--by 10% without harming our troops.
How many more government entitlement programs do we need--another 57% to make you all happy?
My words are dust in the winds of political debate.
Anna,
I am actually in agreement with you on some parts of education.
A federally mandated program--without money--doesn't work well. Having been in the business of education for almost 20 years now. Other problems that exist that bring down our education system.
1. federally mandated testing linked to money--only thing that gets taught is test taking skills.
2. lack of discipline in our schools--parents, not all, but a lot don't make their children responsible for their actions.
I will get back to you on other things. Ask me questions about education--I will try to answer them.
American:
I see you are desperate to turn this into Dem/G.O.P. hackery issue. You're wasting your time.
I have much work to do today, so my answers will be short. Why are our education scores declining in spite of the fact that we continue to spend more? Because we are wasting our money. I have said time and time again, we can cut spending and still improve our education. End compulsory school attendance. Stop pretending that everyone is suited for a college education. Stop pretending that a high school diploma is the end-all, be all. Stop electing partisan hacks to the school board, and insist that they actually go into school rooms. Insist that parents get involved in the education of their children. Stop this idiotic mainstreaming - a very expensive illusion.
I have checked the link I posted, and you are correct that it doesn't work. I have no idea why, but you can check Big Bear's. His are essentially the same as the ones I found.
What is it you want to report on the Democrats hiding something? Is it that you want me to say that we have an us against them mentality in the Congress? I have never suggested otherwise. However, it is Republicans who march in lockstep and only a fool can ignore the constant filibuster of the Senate for the past two years. Only a fool can deny the existence of the Blue Dogs. Is there excessive partisanship? Hell, yes. Again, it seems you believe that I think the Dems get it right all the time. No, they do not.
However, it is not Dems who tout their fiscal conservancy in the face of evidence to the contrary as the
Republicans do. It is not Dems who routinely trot out their heartwarming "traditional family values" in the face of evidence to the contrary as the Republicans do. The Republicans have set themselves up as targets for the charge of hypocrisy.
How do I know if Obama's "vague plan" on health care will work. It's vague for Christ's sake. You're damned right Medicare is going to fail if we don't do something about it. We are going to have to introduce means testing immediately. We are going to have to bring the medical types into the discussion. They are the key, not the damned insurance companies. We need to get moving on a national wellness regimen. I'm going out on a limb here, but I just can't see how sitting on our asses, exercising our thumbs, and eating potato chips improves our collective national health.
New term for the day? "Rhetorical diatribe." Clearly you do not understand the taxation machinery of this country. Taxes trickle up. Someone must act as the tax collector. It is generally going to be those who take in the most cash for their goods and services, although the incredibly convoluted tax code can make hash of that as we have seen in the case of GE and others. It appears to me there is some sort of mental block in the minds' of the right that precludes understanding this simple fact.
When you pay taxes you don't print the money you send the IRS. You collect it from someone. If you collect enough, your 1040 says, "Pay this much." Where'd you get that money? Come on now, stop being obtuse.
Yes, with respect to FICA, your employer matches your contribution. If you are self-employed, you pay about 14%. What's your point?
Try being objective. Just once. You might actually find yourself demanding that Republicans and Democrats work together.
That's a deal, BigBear. I'm looking forward to those discussions. I'll bet I can learn a lot from you.
Bev, where is it you keep coming up with the notion that the republicans want to do away with SS? And I suppose I shouldn't just single you out, we'll open that up to all your leftie buddies. Ryan's plan isn't to do away with it, it's to restructure it so that this program is available to ALL who pay into it. This is where we have a problem. Many are short sighted on this subject- they only care that the benefits are there for themselves. TO those of us who won't retire until well after 2037 when SS is projected to no longer be solvent, this is outright unacceptable. We pay into it too, I'd even dare say for longer than many of the baby boomers did/will, and there is a problem with the system right now. Not enough people paying in to cover the long term sustainability of the program in comparison to the number of people paying out. Yes, a big part of that problem was Congress raiding SS funds for other budget items but the fact is, that's a done deal and we need to do something to correct it. I don't want my 97 year old Grandma or my 60-something parents on SS to lose benefits but I also don't want none there for myself when it comes time for me to retire. We can't keep doing nothing and expect the problem to go away. Ryan's at least proposing SOMETHING right now. Turns out it's really only republicans I've ever heard propose SOMETHING. Maybe it's not the right solution, I'll give you that, but its a damned sight better than "Don't touch my benefits". Some adjustment for future retirees beats no SS as far as I am concerned.
AS for the vote issue in WI, again, repeating a lie doesn't make it true no matter how hard you try. No votes were magically found. 14000 of them were legally cast but not reported. 3800 for the liberal candidate, 11000+ for the conservative, net swing of 7500ish. Tell me honestly that one of the larger cities in the state reporting 0 total votes smells better than 14000 votes not reported on an UNOFFICIAL total. Seriously. Your team loves to cry voter disenfranchisement at every opportunity but you're saying that 14000 legally cast votes in one city should not be counted because they weren't reported to the AP in an unofficial election night race to report a winner even though my state has a process for official reporting that actually determines the outcome of the race. How does that add up for you? And because there's been no recount decision announced as of right now, the state has still not called the race. Only the AP did. Oh, and the candidate on a 204 vote margin. You want to cry foul because she made herself look a little silly that's fine but don't tell me that 14000 voices do not have the right to be heard because of a user error that happened at the end of an 18 hour day.
@ Bev in Chicago - I take it that you find it perfectly OK for the Democrats to "hold hostage" your children and Grandchildren, since they've already spent THEIR tax money? You don't see how the Democrats have the US over a barrel now???!? I prefer my freedom to being a slave of the "nanny state."
I heard a clip of the President's speech this morning. Talking how "education" and "green energy" was going to fuel our economy. Another in a long line of stupid comments concerning the economy from our President. Neither of these will fuel our economy. (though I suppose this was his rationale for continuing to ban US drilling in favor of buying from Brazil. I'm sure the thousands of laid off oil workers are thanking the President for their continued unemployment.)
All purchases of goods and/or services cover the costs of the merchant and that includes his/her federal income tax due,
_____________________________________________
David Walker: You have that one dead right. That's why I always get a good laugh out of the lefty liberals whining about how "corporations don't pay their fair share of taxes!!". They are not bright enough to realize corporations don't ever "pay" taxes. All they do is collect them from the customer in the price the customer pays and then transfer them to the govt.
no joe, no bo, nj "Republicans WERE given a mandate- to stop the spending, repeal HCR, and, by so doing, improve the economy."
WRONG!!!!! Try again. The mandate was JOBS. Please clarify how reduced govt spending increases jobs?
Anna Molly,
I believe this has been collapsed by the collapse creatures of both sides. A shame, considering everyone seemed to be more civil this morning. Some great conversations going on.
I will find you on another blog, and we'll talk about schools, and the real reform they need.
Talk with you later.
Bev - Thanks for all the name calling...and proving my point that there is no PROOF that voter fraud was committed. By the way, the winner of an election does not need to request a recount, the loser does.
It's a little early to pass judgment on that, don't you think? There's an investigation ongoing. What's your hurry?
First of all let's get something straight. Social Security and Medicare have plenty of money to continue paying benefits well beyond the years predicted quite frankly by both sides! Second of all, the government's own definition of an entitlement benefit: a benefit that an individual is entitled to because they paid into it! Not to be mistaken for welfare! The real problem is the General Fund and its inability to repay the Social Securtiy Trust Fund the money the General Fund has borrowed along with the interest due.
So when Paul Ryan and other Tea Party members tell you that Social Security is in trouble they are telling a bald face lie. What is in trouble is the General Fund which is not bringing in enough funds to cover the DEBT it owes to the Social Security Fund. By the way the largest part of the debt is owed to the Social Security Trust Fund and to Government Bonds and T-Bills held by Americans but it would be pretty hard to put a smoke screen thick enough to hide the fact they are stealing from us if they renigged on those other obligations.
So what this boils down to is the Federal Government has been borrowing money from the Social Security Trust Fund and Paul Ryan and company don't want to pay it back. They are creating a smoke screen, lumping Social Security and Medicare payments into the budget as social welfare spending when in reality any money spent out of the General Fund on Social Security should be called a loan repayment. By lumping it in with Social Welfare spending they make it look like a reduction in government spending to cut benefits but all they are really doing is hiding the fact that they are stealing from the American people.
And what was all the money from The Social Security Trust Fund spent on? Republicans want you to believe it has been spent on social programs like welfare, head start, Planned Parenthood, and to education all of which have been cut dramtically since the 80s, but the reality is it was spent on Republican pet pojects like: the massive increase in the defense budget that Reagan started in the 80's, the wars in Iraq and Afgahnistan and of course tax breaks for their corporate bed partners. Hell Reagan raised the Social Security Tax in the 80's just so he would have money available for his massive defense build up and massive tax breaks to his corporate buddies! He was also the first President who actually increased deficit spending and the national debt since Roosevelt! Every President before him made progress in reducing the nations debt whether democrat or republican whether they had a demoratic or republican House and or Senate!
In closing Social Security is not really a tax at all it is a mandatory contribution to a retirement fund. Politicians are now misleading you into thinking entitlement means welfare because they are poising themselves to steal the money and interest they owe us the American tax payer! Why? To pay for the deficit spending not on social welfare benefits which only account for a very small portion of the federal budget (once you remove the completely unrelated Social Security and Medicare payments) . Social Security is and always has been a dedicated "tax" which should have been called mandatory retirement contribution, whose sole purpose was to provide a retirement insurance benefit to those who paid in.
Renee,
First of all let's get something straight. Social Security and Medicare have plenty of money to continue paying benefits well beyond the years predicted quite frankly by both sides
Do you work for the Social Security office? How do you know how much is in the Social Security trust fund? And how much of that money is actually there, not loaned to the federal government? And will the federal government ever pay back it's loans to Social Security?
Thanks,
Interesting and good points anna - When you talk "rich districts" are you talking public or private?
If you are talking private... I am thinking that the parents are more interested in the kids achieving, I am thinking of the teachers and administrators as being more interested in the students acheiving. If you are talking public, is the funding determined by the local tax base only + whatever state and federal funds may subsidize them evenly across the board? IE the school board determines what each individual school gets or can the parents also contribute beyond school supplies and property taxes? Do the affluent parents in the rich districts pay closer attention to the results their kids achievements or do the teachers have more interests in teaching than the "poor" districts. What are the percentile education achievment scores between the two?
Where I grew up in western new york, class size averaged 30-32 students, class disturbances were not condoned, teachers were always willing to spend added time with students that asked, courses were taught requiring fundamental mastery of math and communications with a side of history, civics and the arts. All this within the context of grades k-6, and those students that had parents involved in their kids education always seemed to do better as well. $$$ had little to do with it beyond the basics.
Yet my generation was instrumental in developing systems that took men to the moon, created a vaste array of electronics that increased our knowledge of the universe, medical advances, paved the way for cell phones and computers that could be carried around and do more than a room with a mainframe and banks of tape drives.
I often wonder if not having access to computers, cell phones and whatnot didn't make us think more creatively and logically. Heck, by the time I entered the workforce slide rule classes for engineers were being terminated.
I concur that no child left behind was a failure and wasted $$$.
Your points on having to spend $$$ on unneeded items is valid only to the extent on why they are needed. Why has our social fabric been allowed to change in such a manner? Just throwing $$$ at a broken system should not be a first option.
Between you and yellowdog I think we can make progress on changing attitudes on what it will take to turn k-12 education around
David walker - Not really desperate, but if one wants to spread spacious half truths I will ask for clarification. As to your rather wordy reply, thanks. If you had posted 1.72 before what I questioned you on, both of our replies would have been shorter.
I would suggest that you reread the last half of your post 1.72 from the point of "Rhetorical diatribe" you meander and hardly justify your conclusions on mental blocks and the right. Kind of like saying democrats can do their own taxes and the republicans have to go to H&R block.
with regards to...
What part of my comment to you didn't you understand? " Shouldn't it be that "political devisiveness is the problem"? " Last I knew we were still a two party system.
Standard and Poors Smack-Down Colors Me Curious
Depending on how you see it, the S&P forecast is not as dark as it seems. In fact, the darker side of me finds it rather suspect. While on the other hand it I see this forecast bright and cheerfully. .
First before I detail my reasons for this dichotomy I suggest everyone to click on the link below. George W Bush has given a thought in one sentence.
George W Bush
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/themes/chimpy/images/@!$%#edyouall.jpg
Isn’t it peculiar that the S&P one of the big 3 raters didn’t see the 2008 collapse under GW Bush? Moody on the contrary gives a different analysis.
Therefore, I see these possible outcomes.
The GOP/T-Baggers in Congress need to STOP taking America hostage. Using hostage taking threats by wanting ideological cutting and no new sources of revenue is not good for the GOP/T-Baggers or America. In other words the rich need to pay their fair share of taxes and George Bush’s tax cuts for multi/billionaires, oil companies, and Wall Street never should be enacted again. People, we the middle class, the poor, disabled, retired and little children are the stock exchanged for this largess George Bush gave!!!!
We should encourage our representative to raise the debt ceiling; least not only do we collapse but so does the world. Remember the cliché when America sneezes the world gets a cold?
The American economy is strong the S&P forecast says it’s dynamic the most important in the world/ That is excellent. The importance of the S&P is for both sides to come together and follow the leader of the free world , President Obama wants from compromise and bipartisanship.
So I ‘m hoping my perspective is something that I can use to add a shade of brightness other than the conventional steady doom and gloom described in the MSM; especially FOX.
All this color lore has a lot to do with communication, if the Republican/Tea Baggers in Congress would just look on the brighter side of what the S&P has said; and why they need to world together for a brighter American future.
Phil Flynn, an oil analyst with PFGBest in Chicago said-- Let's face it, it's a wake-up call,". "S&P has sent us a warning sign, and, in the meantime, the market is pricing in the 'what if?'"
Gov. Jan Brewer has vetoed a bill passed by the Arizona legislature.
“I never imagined being presented with a bill that could require candidates for President of the greatest and most powerful nation on earth to submit their ‘early baptismal or circumcision certificates’… this is a bridge too far. This measure creates significant new problems while failing to do anything constructive for Arizona.”
Kudos, Gov. Jan Brewer who has never been one of my favs; but I will give credit when it’s due.
United We Stand Collapsed We Fall
#1.1 - Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:17 AM EDT
Another thought...
According to the Republican Party, there are Chimpanzees in the Washington D.C. As I see that the Republican Party rears the racist head yet again I have no doubt that the Republican Party will embrace Miss Davenport even closer to their bosom.
I can hear the back room meeting with the Donald and Romney trying to console this woman, ‘Oh, that wasn’t racism I was just passing it along knowing I would never get caught. I don’t represent the TEA Party or the Republican Party I was just being an Independent with Conservative tendencies.’
Conservatives will always defend their own. Republicans need to either change their nasty attitudes or make it known that they are racist. No reason to hide behind any sheets.
But this type of hypocrisy will not hinder the development of mankind. The United States of America will overcome this rampant divisiveness that the Conservative/Republican Party continues to push on our Progressive Society.
President Obama never claimed to worry about the Standard that the Media and other Talking Heads glorify...
President Obama has always identified himself with being a different kind of president, both literally and figuratively. He doesn't worry about polls or how the media paints him. He's all about the people's business and that burns the media and critics up. Keep doing what you're doing Mr. President.
As President Obama intends to close those tax loopholes that have benefitted the rich for the better part of 50 years, he realizes that he has launched a campaign based on promises kept, herculean accomplishment and futurist innovations and declarations. The deficit will be addressed by a new labor force that consists of the emerging leaders of today.
I, as well as others, have confidence in our youth that they will grow beyond political differences not allowing some Failed Entertainer or Failed Governor or Failed ‘News’ Personality to attempt to embed some conditioning or fashioned forethought into their minds on how ‘this or that is letting them down’ or how ‘this or that is trying to destroy them.’
Our youth are beyond that type of narrow mind and are ushering in a new era.
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
Louis J:
It never stops. People are starting to awaken from their slumber and wondering if they have awoken on another planet.
They are not happy with where this country is going (both parties are to blame here, not just one) and they want solutions. Most do not care who does it as long as it gets done and they are tired of the false rhetoric and the in fighting which results in no progress and further decline.
The American people what JOBS, a strong economy and improved education. They want a lower deficit and the politicians to address the National debt. What they do not want is more gridlock and "Obstructionism".
LouisJ - Conservatives will always defend their own. Republicans need to either change their nasty attitudes or make it known that they are racist. No reason to hide behind any sheets.
___________________________
"I do not support designating one person as the gatekeeper to the ballot for a candidate, which could lead to arbitrary or politically motivated decisions," said Brewer, who was secretary of state until she became governor in 2009.
"In addition, I never imagined being presented with a bill that could require candidates for president of the greatest and most powerful nation on Earth to submit their 'early baptismal circumcision certificates' among other records to the Arizona secretary of state," she said. "This is a bridge too far." - Janet Brewer
________
Perhaps something to think about that goes against your narrative. Brewer a republican whatever her other actions at least here with the birther bill she vetoed it. She showed good judgement and didn't support the state republican bill.
Regarding the state official with the email, I in no way support or would condone that type of an email. Neither do I support or condone the condescending and argumentative, sometimes inflammatory posts on this blog. The posts come from the right and the left. Yes racism exists. Was that woman showing racist tendencies in sending that email yes. We should all remember, however that there are racists in both parties and some that are unaffilitated and apethetic towards politics. I believe it is best not to categorically classify an entire group ie. Republicans as racists.
Another good post, Mark.
I've expressed roughly the same sentiments a number of times.
Maybe you'll have better luck getting through than I've had.
My bad Mark, I'll limit it to Republican TEA Drinkers.
But I would like to know the number of Democratic e-mails that have been intercepted that show chimpanzees or other racist tainted imagery or thoughts being distributed. Could you provide some? I don't see it happening. We're talking about the President and him being a black man. Please advise. I won't hold my breath.
( =^|)
You do know where this is going don't you Louis?
Wait for it.... but... but... Robert Byrd belonged to the klan!
I'm on record as saying I vehemently disagree with racism from either side, but it's not my fault the right owns more sets of sheets!
As for Brewer - YES she finally did something right. Now, ask the families of the people who have died waiting for transplants she's denied how they feel about her?
That would be completely fine. Robert Byrd is dead though. These people are alive, kicking, still practicing the same negative voodoo tripe that was practiced long ago. They have not changed one bit and if the Democrats are doing any of this I have yet to see it. I'll also go on record that both parties have racist people in them as well, racism is everywhere, but demonizing the President of the United States is another thing. I'm a supporter and defender of the president. I won't compromise that position.
I don't tolerate the pettiness from the Right nor those that continuously only find something in my comment about racism and act like it is but a minor subtopic in today's debate... "oh you know both sides is guilty" argument. BS.
But that's just my thought.
If you don't want people singling that portion of your posts out, try not bolding the word racist. And I hate to break it to you but you are totally wrong about the youth in this country.
I'm a supporter and defender of the president. I won't compromise that position.
I don't tolerate the pettiness from the Right nor those that continuously only find something in my comment about racism and act like it is but a minor subtopic in today's debate... "oh you know both sides is guilty" argument. BS.
_______
I appreciate your feed back, LouisJ. I also admire your defense of your positions and ideas. I am a supporter of Obama as well, but choose to question some of his choices and policies from his left flank. I don't support as an absolute everything that he has done.
Racism is an important and pervasive topic but like many it can be used couterproductively and at times can weaken your arguement. Blanket statements and generalizations are often used too much as well. Ideas like we have to support our president without question troubles me. Another thing that troubles me is the left and right's idea "My way or the highway". Believe me I am far left, but I understand that there needs to be a compromise to settle things. I just don't want my side in the attempt to compromise give up the whole store in the deal.
Perhaps you would listen to another philosophical arguement.
"You are either with me or against me.." - Anakin Skywalker
"Only the Sith speak in absolutes!" - Obiwan Kenobi
Ghoster0071 FOR PRESIDENT!
Hello everyone, I know WE as people in this wonderful nation we all call home are a little upset with whats been going on with the government behind closed doors. These are the people that WE elected, that WE put in power. They should NOT be able to just close the doors on the people that MADE them who they are. That is unfair!
My Platform:
First off, Fighting is not the answer, we need to come back together as a whole nation, we're fighting about ridiculous issues, that just don't need to be fought over. Picking parties is a great example of this, How about instead of voting for parties, we start voting for the person and what they CAN do for the PEOPLE instead of PLAN or MIGHT do. Second of all, We have got to stop these wars! They are what tore this country apart in the first place, all they've done is run up an astonishing debt that will take years even after the wars are over to pay off. Thirdly, WE NEED INDUSTRY! We rely on so many different countries for products and everyday needs, and what do these countries that WE'VE given industry to give us products that try to poison our children with lead, and try to give us diseases through our food? NOT OKAY! Industry is what this country was founded on and the hard working men and women of yesteryear would be ashamed to see what this nation has become. We need to become an industrialized nation again, instead of a service industry. That alone would bring millions of jobs back HOME, and take unemployment to an all-time low. Let's bring back the mills, steel, and ship yards, these are jobs that pay good family wages and have excellent benefits, not to mention the product is FAR superior and TOXIN-FREE. Sounds pretty good to me. Also, don't think I've forgotten about the corporate banks, only companies this large would be able to pull off a scam like they did. Have you ever seen the government fork out large sums of money to help an individual person, NO! This is NOT a fair game, why does big brother and his corporate backers get to pick on US? WE elected these officials into office and all THEY do is steal from us and keep us in the shadows, I for one WILL NOT stand for this anymore! If you like any part of what I said, Please on election day, Vote for Ghoster0071. Last note, "WE THE PEOPLE" does not stand for "WE THE PEOPLE IN THE GOVERNMENT" it does not stand for "WE THE PEOPLE, THAT ARE RICH" it stands for "WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES" AND THATS WHAT WE WILL BE AGAIN!
I'm not arguing with anyone. It's a statement. So you're essentially saying that there are no e-mails from "our" Democratic allies or supporters that contain racist content... any signs at rallies? I'll even take that.
@ LouisJ
Was this aimed at me?
yellowdog - nicely stated.
Left Taunts, Harasses and Hurls Racial Insults at African American Man Attending TEA Party
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgV3PZkJmk4&feature=player_embedded
No Ghoster, I agree with what you said.
Cute DWF. Try harder.
Mixed Bag - "I think the problem is the Obama proposal has to be a clearer proposal. I think the President did an extraordinary job of stating a values framework and clarity about, um, sort of the issues we will use, but he didn't yet tell us what the plan is."
I thought I would respond here as the first thread had some 60 plus posts. We are pretty close in our idea that some ideas from the debt commission could be used to go forward in lieu of the Ryan plan.
Wanted to post a word to you and other posters such as American 2051576 and even to NoJo who I have spoken to on occasion. The Ryan plan or the general GOP idea that "spending" is the problem is one way to try to address the problem. We can arque whether spending vs. lack of revenue is the main culprit in our deficits. I didn't want to go there on this post.
Some Liberals will say that the Ryan's plan is not serious, whereas I would say it is serious in cutting spending and decreasing taxes. By decreasing taxes the idea is that the business sector will hire, expand and grow. Trickle down economics something I don't agree with but you all probably do. I hope I am being fair to the concept.
I understand that the GOP tends to see us liberals as "bleeding hearts" and unrealistic about problems, whereas you claim to favor a self reliant approach to things. Again generalizations, however, if those cuts go into affect there will be ramifications.
Won't the GOP's proposed solution to the problem cause a myriad of others? How can seniors whether they be 55 now or those in future generations survive with a voucher type program for health care? If the cuts shed jobs, won't that hurt the economic recovery? Those newly unemployed will be on UI and have drastically reduced buying power. Some could lose their houses and further degrade the housing market. I'm not sure if the supposed private sector job openings will be able to compensate for this influx of "trained personnel" who have lost their jobs serving the public's needs.
It just seems that no matter how self reliant a person is, whether they have a six month emergency cash fund and no debts, a drastic shift like this to austerity type cuts would jeopardize the standard of living for a great deal of people.
It has been said, reports and scientific studies, that liberals and conservatives are wired different. I will admit I am not economically inclined. I'm just trying to understand.
LouisJ
I don't see anything cute about racism.
So, LouisJ do i have your vote this next election day? :)
Louis as a lib I wish you wouldn't paint all republicans as racists youknow both parties have a fair share of a** holes.
Fiesty glad you brought it up the fact it was the dems Sen. Byrd and Al gore Sr. who filibustered the civil rights act. It was a republican Congress who passed civil rights. Thats a big help
Did last week's speech backfire? Probably, yes.
If you step away from the small group that lives each day within FIRST READ, the general comment that seems to have stuck is that the President presented two DIFFERENT budget stories within a few weeks. The press coverage of this fact is all that I hear around the community. A liberal town that is an Obama supporter - a feeling that individuals seem to need to find a way to explain. The need to find a way to explain - is not good.
So, yes. Regardless of all the economy and other quotes here from this close circle of First Read supporters, there is a problem.
Unrelated -I note that the Republicans have passed a House Bill that has a great impact on the government's support of social services. From my first read, this looks like suicide. A second look suggests that when the governments wasteful spending in these agencies gets into the light, there may very well be a big support for a change to what might look like a dying program.
Different thoughts for the little group in the dark cave at MSNBC.
A final comment regarding all the name calling that appears every day on First Read - those calling others names, are not part of any solution. Step up and discuss the subject and leave the name calling to your family.
Ghoster, run in 2016 and I'll give it a thought 'chief'. ACES!
( =^])
There are no chimpanzees in Washington, DC. If there were, Washington would actually run better than it does.
Repost of #1 Collapsed by the new GOP fascits:
Well it appears that three GOP State Senators and one Democratic State Senator will be facing a recall in Wisconsin and more to follow in the upcoming weeks. Looks like the people are speaking in Wisconsin and this is not finished yet. Walker will be recalled in 2012.
The Governor of Arizona did not sign the AZ Birther Bill yesterday. Somebody send Trump a memo. Kansas on the other hand is trying to pass a Birther Bill even more restrictive than the one proposed by AZ. The ultimate goal again by the GOP/TP is the disenfranchisement of the voting rights of Citizens by trying to make it harder to register to vote for people of modest means, the elderly, college students etc. that typically vote democratic. No more voter registrations at rallies, etc. You must now go to a specific location and present a birth certificate or passport to register. Not even a valid driver’s license is ok anymore. This will not pass on constitutional grounds but they are going to try.
Just like the 17 or so States that now have abortion laws that violate the Supreme Court Rowe vs. Wade decision. Why has this not come up at SCOTUS yet? Because many are saying that the right wing political fundraisers cloaked as Supreme Court Justices would rule in favor of repealing Rowe vs. Wade and they do not want to take that chance yet. As more and more information comes to light on the Ryan Bill and when voters learn almost anything about it they turn intensely against it. And they should. According to an analysis by the non-partisan Center for Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP), the GOP (Ryan) “Roadmap to Oligarchy” would end most of government programs while providing the largest tax cuts in history for the wealthy. This Bill will also destroy Medicare and Medicaid as we know it and only God knows what they are planning for Social Security. These are Social Programs that 70% or more of the American people do not want the GOP to mess with. Tell me again how the GOP listens to the people.
The assessment from the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) is that the Ryan plan raises, not lowers, the cost of insurance. The CBO assessment implies that the Ryan plan would raise the cost to the country of buying Medicare equivalent policies by $20.5 trillion over the next 75 years (Medicare's planning period). This amount is almost four times as large as the projected Social Security shortfall. It comes to more than $60,000 for every man, woman, and child in the country. While this extra cost would not be borne by the government under the Ryan plan, it implies an enormous burden on future generations of retirees who may have to spend more than half of their income on health care. Remember that the Ryan Plan shifts the costs from the government to the individual Medicare Beneficiaries knowing that the escalating costs will make Medicare unaffordable for most of our seniors making Medicare a program only for those that can afford the large premiums. The rest will be thrown out into the street to fend for themselves and many will die due to the lack or proper Health Care.
Reuters' James Pethokoukis has written that the “Ryan's plan may prove to be “a 73-page suicide note” for the party.
Last year, when the GOP/TP took control of the House, they convinced themselves falsely that the American public had handed them a mandate. No they did not. But believing their own spin, the GOP has dramatically over-reached since then, pi$$ing off swing voters with it DRACONIAN agenda. This is playing out in many States. Talking Points Memo (TPM) has noted “Wisconsin's Scott Walker (R), Ohio's John Kasich (R), and Michigan's Rick Snyder (R) have seen their approval ratings fall to the point that polls show them losing hypothetical do-over elections with the candidates they beat last year” and now it's beginning to show in the national polls and in the people of those States recalling their previously elected officials.
This country should never see a day that a child goes hungry, that any person is denied medical care. We should never see people sleeping in card board boxes and their children or themselves denied the opportunity to better themselves through education and a decent job. The American Dream is becoming an nightmare and the list goes on. This is just wrong and saddens this old heart to no end. We, as a Nation, are better than that and our citizens deserve to be treated equally and with respect. This “Class Based Society” [of those that have and those that never will] that the GOP/TP wants to create is not compatible with democracy as we know it. One of them has to fail.
This is not over people by a long shot. In fact the battle is just now starting to heat up.
You can not intimidate me or bully me in any way. I have every right to be here and express my opinions as you do. I am not going to go away and let you violate my rights like you and you party are trying to do to America. Just is not going to happen so get use to it and move on. The ideology of 1930’s and 1940’s Europe (fascism/Nazism/despotism etc) did not work there and will not work in this country. It has been tried and failed. The current GOP/TP ideology is coming dangerously similar to those ideologies. All we have to do is look at what you guys stand for. Religious Intolerance, Sexism, Racism, Oligarchies etc. You prove it every day with your legislation and opposition to legislation. It is in the record books now as to what you guys are really about and many Americans now realize that and are speaking out against your tyranny.
Truth, when someone begins anything with the denigrated abbreviation 'lib', especially on this board, I have to question their 'truth'ful motives. But keep trying. President Obama will still be around post 2012.
Giggidy
( =^})
You liberal/progressives make my day. You all sputter like you have some super majority, You are the MINORITY. Please understand that us independents will make or break your day. And Ummmm if I go by all of my friends with an I next to their name your still sucking wind. Talk as elite and educated as you want, its not going to buy you anymore votes. As a matter of fact the vile nasty half hearted comments on blogs like these teach us more and more what you are about and how you act. Lets see in 6 months how many "recalls" you have and who is still in the go lane!
Jolly - Talk as elite and educated as you want, its not going to buy you anymore votes.
So you would rather us talk like we were uneducated?
Talking about the "go lane", I was driving my hybrid the other day and was behind a red pickup truck. It had the good Ol Confederate flag on the windshield, (I guess they were celebrating the 150 year Civil war anniversaries.)
The bumper had a couple of stickers one read "Secede" - Nuff said. On the other side of the NRA logo was a Bush Cheney 04 sticker. I had to chuckle and almost spilled my Starbucks.
Edit - Actually, I wasn't drinking starbucks, I can't stand coffee. I just wanted to play the part.
Yellowdog - thanks for your thoughtful and constructive posts. I'm a fiscal conservative/social liberal, and I think it's safe to say we have significantly different views on economics, but I'm always open to hearing alternative views presented in a constructive manner.
Everyone on both sides that call people names - can you leave off the "clever" name calling? All it does is devalue your argument. Saying things like "libtards" or "teabaggers" or "repuglicans" just make the poster look immature to me.
Agree Ron 1861300, the ones that only throw out zingers don't offer solutions.
I enjoy reading from many fellow liberals on this site. Nashville fan, Jody Ia, Pat Boston, JoAnne Pa, Steeler Fan, Amy B Maine, Pietro, John B. Too, too many else to mention.
I also like to hear from others who may have different ideas and try to understand where they are coming from whether they be from the independent side like:
Alan, NJ, Independent Redneck, Exodite Dragon, Dangerfield (Dangerfield sorry but you strike me as an indie, not sure.)
On the conservative side I try to hear what Mixed Bag and American 205 says even if I don't agree with them. Even No Jo once in a while can bring up some good foreign policy points when she isn't intent on ripping Obama's econominc policies.
All of them and many others have viewpoints that are worth reading and responding to.
Edit - Oh well it looks like the whole thread was collapsed.
Critics argued that credit rating agencies and investors failed to accurately price the risk involved with mortgage-related financial products, and that governments did not adjust their regulatory practices to address 21st-century financial markets
Although there have been aftershocks, the financial crisis itself ended sometime between late-2008 and mid-2009. While many causes for the financial crisis have been suggested, with varying weight assigned by experts, the United States Senate issuing the Levin-Coburn Report found “that the crisis was not a natural disaster, but the result of high risk, complex financial products; undisclosed conflicts of interest; and the failure of regulators, the credit rating agencies, and the market itself to rein in the excesses of Wall Street.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_stock_market_crash_of_September_2008
http://creditriskchronicles.blogspot.com/2010/04/role-of-credit-rating-agencies-on.html
___________________________________________________________
If the Credit Rating Agencies were complicit in assisting the Financial Market’s to manipulate the circumstances leading up to the eventual collapse in 2007 ( and apparently they were) why should I give credence to their attempts to assist in the manipulation of the Economy now?
The support of Trump just supports what has been known for some time. The Right has fallen into the Looney bend.
Trump knows that President Obama was born in the United States. He is just playing to the birther racists, who no matter what proof is placed in front of them will go along with the person who backs their crazy talk.
These Tea bagger- birther racists types will believe anything bad said about the President and Trump knows this fact and he is playing on their mob mentally.
IR:
Very true. I remember back in the 70 & 80's, I was working for an Financial Institution out of college, where S&P gave many Insurance Companies their highest ratings only to watch them fail in a short time.
S&P has missed the mark before and I have little trust in their projections since then.
If the Credit Rating Agencies were complicit in assisting the Financial Market’s to manipulate the circumstances leading up to the eventual collapse in 2007 ( and apparently they were) why should I give credence to their attempts to assist in the manipulation of the Economy now?
One more 'dot connected' *check*
Thanks IR - wonder why nothing was mentioned about this under First Thoughts? Oh! The things that make you go Hmmm!
Tell me again how the MSM doesn't 'manipulate' the narrative? lol
Good point, IR.
Larry O'Donnell and Prof. Melissa Harris-Perry suggested pretty much the same thing last night on "The Last Word."
They theorized that if Standard & Poors was willing to issue this sort of warning, that the nation's debt crisis is likely even more dire than we imagine.
IR, well said. I'm not sure how much I trust S & P, but I do know they made a valid point--their concern was not the debt ceiling or even the debt itself but rather the deep partisan split and inability of Congress to seriously discuss, address and agree on a plan to reduce the debt.
The Oklahoma City bombing - 16 years on
By Emma McFarnon
Tuesday, 19 April 2011
Today marks the 16th anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing, which claimed 168 lives and injured more than 680 people, making it the most deadly act of terrorism in America until 9/11.
On 19 April 1995, 27-year-old Timothy McVeigh detonated a fuel and fertilizer truck bomb outside the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/history/the-oklahoma-city-bombing--16-years-on-2269433.html?service=Print
___________________________________________________________
Lest we forget.
Prayers and Sympathies to all the folks in Oklahoma City that lost Friends and Loved Ones.
"The pain passes, but the beauty remains". --Pierre Auguste Renoir (1841-1919)
IR - as you say rating agencies only really offer an opinion.
Yesterday David Beers, who coauthored the S&P rating, stated that the rating had more to do with political gridlock on whether the US could come up with a viable plan to address our medium and long term debt.
With canada, great britain, france and germany currently working on getting their own financial houses in order why should the US be given the same rating if they fail to address their own finances? Even the IMF is not impress4ed with how the US is handling their debt.
Simple math.....I am sure this will explain Obama's speech a little better. No one use simple explanations any more. They make it complicated and no one takes the time to decipher it.
I know this is extremely simple math, but it's the truth.
Income $100
Spending....$200
Debt.......$400 + daily interest
Solution 1
Reduce spending by ...$100= $100...yeah..
Reduce income by .....$25...what the?
Debt..$450+
Result........Decreased income, equals less money to pay down debt. Now we have to cut spending again, down to $75. We have to take from the elderly, poor and children. We also have to cut education, which only hurts the middle class and poor, since the rich can pay for whatever they want.
Solution 2
Reduce spending ...$100= $100...yeah
Increase income... $25=$125...second job =great help.
Reduce debt...$25 =$375 yeah
Result....Still able to keep some programs in place to help elderly poor and children. Ability to do things to improve life in the US...and the big on....wait for it......REDUCE OUR DEBT!!!!!!
How can anyone take care of their responsibilities by reducing their income? If this was the case, everyone who is unemployed should be very successful.
Now this is not picking on the rich. What is their input? If we take everything from the poor and gives breaks to they rich, they will eventually become less successful, since they depend on the ones you are taking from to continue their success. The breaks will not help, compared to the middle class and poor supporting them. Everyone suffers.
Moody's has also issued some warnings this year about the US deficit and debt. Currently they think the politicians will find a way to work together, but they stated that if they don't, they also may drop our rating in a few years. The main difference between the 2 is Moody's thinks the politicians will come together, and S&P isn't as optimistic.
“Many people regard Trump as a joke and his popularity a disgrace. But he is actually riding a deep public fantasy: The hunger for the ultimate blowhard who can lead us through dark times.”
History is rife with examples of this. It's a lot less rife with the blowhard being successful. Demagogues for $200, Alex!
Thank you, auntie.
You have just explained how Obama got elected.
What will explain his re-election? A Republican nomination process that eats its own?
Not at all. You see, Obama accelerated the roll out of his re election campaign by months. You did not notice because the media acts as if this is the status quo. Suffice to say, it is historic. Unprecedented, even.
We have, in this country, a system of choosing candidates called "primaries". These are held in the same year as the general election. In the year leading up to the general election, numerous candidates belonging to the party out of power form "exploratory committees"- they explore how much money and backing they can raise.
Throughout the course of the year, candidates "announce" their intentions to run- or not to run. Then, after the first of the election year, then primaries begin. Weaker candidates, who cannot command the requisite number of votes that translate into delegates, drop out, and endorse other candidates. Then, in the summer of the election year, a convention is held, a nominee voted on, and that nominee selects a vice presidential candidate.
This will happen for the republicans next year-2012, the election year. During THIS year, the year before the election year, various candidates will simply explore. Some will continue gamely on, others will drop out, and them first debate among hopefuls will take place in January of next year- the usual time for such a debate- not, as the media hoped, in the late spring of this year.
Just because Obama jumped the gun, does not mean everyone else has to do so.
Auntie - regardless of obama possibly being re-elected next year, won't the democrats be eating their own also as they seek a new presidential candidate in 2016.
Here is a scary thought, obama loses in 2012 but regains the nomination in 2016. Will he campaign with billboards asking "Do you miss me yet?"
No Joe, thanks ever so much for the patronizing lecture. You didn't answer the question. Romney's too Mormon and too linked to Obamacare. Huntsman's too Mormon and was Obama's ambassador to China. These are the two candidates that have the best chance against Obama. The rest of the Republican field are buffoons.
Auntie - you may think they are the 2 best candidates but I think I will let the Repub primaries play out. 0bama will be easy to beat with a good candidate because he has to run on his record and the American people voted against the 0bama agenda last Nov 2010 and his popularity continues to fall. WaPo/ABC poll 45% will definitely not vote for 0bama compared to 28% who will definitely vote for him. He is a 1-termer. Thank God. Too bad Hillary won't come in and save the Democrat party!
"Bitter clingers" is now being defined as that shrinking group of liberals who still believe Obama knows the solutions.
The Republican assault on Medicare is a foreshadowing of their assault on America. As the Republicans butcher the elderly to make them pony up 12,500.00, I see no reason for them to continue to remain as the majority in the House. In 2012, you're dismissed.
Giggidy
( |^O)
And to think that obamacare cuts medicare by $500 billion. Bet my mom is happy about that!
LouisJ is that flat spot on your head from your mom dropping you as a child? Or did you just eat a lot of lead chips?
44% believing the U.S. economy is getting worse (when employment is actually on the rise)
You don't think it has anything to do with the non-stop coverage of every utterance from President Obama's detractors, Trump, Palin, Bachmann, Santorum, Romney, Paul Ryan, Boehner, Gingrich, Barbour, and various Tea Party House Representatives, who paint the US as in decline, in a crisis, on the verge of bankruptcy, etc.
It has everything to do with the fact that we have a 14 trillion dollar debt and Obama proposes to have deficit spending for the next 12 years and add 6 trillion to that number. His projection of only adding 6 trillion in deficit spending is also probably very light. We are on the verge of bankruptcy. People are waking up to the fact that we cannot continue to borrow 40 cents of every dollar needed to fund Washington. The employment numbers are not something to brag about. The liberal press loves to attack the other side so to speak. Americans that have worked for their money will vote differently in the next election. This concept by Obama and his liberal base that it is the government's money and the government's decision to "let me keep some of my money will wake up some more hard working people as well.
Yes, Amy, it does have a great deal to do with that "liberal" media pushing the GOP storyline.
Please, just once will a conservative poster admit that it was the GOP and Bush 43 who spent this country into oblivion creating a giant hole and when the economy crashed, it forced the Government to do more deficit spending. Those are the facts, and anyone who claims otherwise is just unwilling to accept the idea that the GOP is not and has not been fiscally responsible for 30 years.
No, Amy, I do not think that at all.
It has to do with the fact that dumping people in the discouraged worker, thus, out of the labor market, pool, only works as long as a lot of people do not know someone unable to get a job.
It also has to do with inflation- which is rising rapidly. Leaving food and fuel out of the CPI does very little to assure people that prices are stable. They see it when they fill their cars and buy groceries.
All of the media inattention does nothing to make people forget that prices are rising.
So, no, it is not "those meanies" saying bad things about Obama. It is the facts which dispute his rosy scenarios that are doing him in.
Jody,
I will gladly admit that President Bush and the GOP spent far too much money during their tenure. Now I am not one of those posters who say no one should ever mention Bush, but what can be done about what has already occured? Why not focus on the future and projected deficit spending rather than that which can not be undone?
Amy, it probablly has to do with the Number of people who have fallen off the unemployment rolls. When they fall off they are no longer counted in the Numerator. And the adjustments of the working population base is also having a positive effect. employment situation is not better, it is still a drag. and now with rising gas prices, demand will be falling which will most likely lead to increased layoffs.
But luckly our President has given us advice on the higher gas prices, "get used to it"
I am ready for some Hope and change.
Facts from the United States Government:
In Trillion
2000-7081 President Clinton last year in office.
2001-7324 President Bush first year in office.
2002-7880
2003-8573
2004-9331
2005-9990
2006-10655
2007-11360
2008-12537 President Bush last year in office. (Total under Bush 5 trillion 456 billion)
2009-14539 President Obama First year in office
The 2010 projected National Total debt made in 2009 was 16173 Almost 2 trillion lower than projected.
Currently, the total National Total debt is at 14221 down by 318 billion than in 2010 compared to the end of 2009.
trillion- Remember all spending is signed into law by the President in charge.
Under Bush the debt grew 5456 5 trillion 456 billion (8 years in office)
Under Obama the debt grew 1684 1 trillion 684 billion (2 years 3 months)
Amyb and jody - I also recall polls since the nov 2011 elections on how ~ 60% think our country is on the wrong track.
BTW - why shouldn't the media report on the obvious, after all someone has to eventually pay off our debt or declare the US bankrupt. We can't play ostrich and hope it goes away.
Isn't it amazing how easily conservatives can forget what really got this country in trouble? What really set this country into a downward spiral started, not with the Obama administration, not even with the Bush administration, no we have to look a lot further back than that!
So lets go back to when this all really started. 1980's and the beginning of what has become the popular conservative philosophy. Reganomics! The real Voodoo economics. Trickle down theory! At the beginning of Reagans Presidency the country was in a severe recession. Reagan sold the American public on his idea of trickle down, feed the rich and it will trickle down to everyone else.
So the brainwashing began. Reagan made huge tax cuts to the wealthy and corporations. Did they create jobs? No not really what really created jobs was at the same time that Reagan made all of these huge tax cuts for the wealthy he also started the most massive build up of the American military in the history of the United States not actively involved in a war. Huge highly lucrative military contracts were awarded and it was these contracts that created jobs, inother words Government spending not tax cuts created jobs. He also expanded the space program more spending more jobs.
So how did Reagan pay for all of this when he had cut taxes for wealthy friends there by reducing the revenue base? A couple of way, first he cut programs like Head Start and education. He also raised the National debt at a rate no President had done since Roosevelt. As a matter of fact every President after Roosevelt up until Reagan whether they were a Democrat or a Republican, whether they had a Democratic or Republican controlled House/ Senate had made strides towards reducing deficit spending and or debt.
The last and probably biggest farce of Reagan economic voodoo is what he did to Social Security and Medicare. Alan Greenspan head of the Federal Reserve at the time had the foresight to see that Social Security would not be sustainable once the Baby Boomers started to retire. So he advised President Reagan to raise the Social Security tax which he did but instead of putting it into the Social Security Trust fund he spent it running up the federal debt by spending all of the extra Social Security Tax that wasn't being paid out in benefits and putting IOUs in the Trust Fund instead.
And all the Reagan supporters out there are going to start srcreaming about how his arms build up brought down the Soviet Union and ended the Cold War, BULL!!!! What brought down the sSoviet Union was all the internal problems created by greedy leaders much like the Tea Party republicans. When people have to stand in line for 2 or 3 days just to get a loaf of bread and many times when they reached the front of the line there wasn't any left it tendency to cause revolt. Gorbachev had enough intellegence to see this was inevitable and chose to start negotiating the disarmement before the Soviet nuclear arsenal ended up in the wrong hands. He is the person the free world should have looked to as the man who brought down the Berlin Wall not Reagan.
I have no doubt that Donald Trump will ride the elephant all the way to the Republican Convention. He realizes that the base is blind to everything. He realizes he can say anything to these people as long as it is against the president. The Republican Party hates the president and he realizes as long as he continues to say the things he is saying, he will be able to make that elephant rear back on its hind legs and yell, "YAHOO!!!" and they will cheer him like he is a prophet. He's got the Republican Party in the palm of his hand. SMH.
Giggidy
( =^/)
I agree Amy; The Republicans Tea Baggers are constantly attacking our country as weak and going down the tubes, without pointing out the good. They are always sighting that our country was once great, and they are the only path back to greatness.
Oh course, we all know that they are full of Poop.
Obama uses this tactic, especially when he is attacking free enterprise or any Republican idea for that matter. Double standard is alive and well on the left.
So now it is "partisan" to tell the truth?
Oh good grief, this is Washington spin at its very worst. This country has been split down the middle 50%-50% since BEFORE President George W. Bush was elected.
To try and tie every variation within each poll to how the President's speech was received? Well, I'll be diplomatic and say that you really didn't do much to make your case.
Unless that was one of the poll questions, I think we have a classic case of Washington DC narrative building, and its just not necessary.
The President's speech was just the truth, so regardless of how we all "receive" it, the truth's there in ain't going no where.
Fact is, the same folks who want to climb up on their soap box and preach solutions NOW are the exact same cast of characters who got us into this mess to start with, so forgive me if I don't put a lot of stock in their "expert" opinions. Or the media's for that matter.
Nash, so true.
You nailed it Nash!
Only in politics, as in much of life, truth is subjective.
Interesting individual tax info and comparing obamas speech with ryans written proposals...
Who said lowering tax rates didn't increase revenue??
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-18/get-rich-pay-lower-taxes-boost-u-s-revenue-commentary-by-amity-shlaes.html
(3) The only tax analyzed here is the federal individual income tax, which is responsible for about 25 percent of the nation's taxes paid (at all levels of government). Federal income taxes are much more progressive than payroll taxes, which are responsible for about 20 percent of all taxes paid (at all levels of government), and are more progressive than most state and local taxes (depending upon the economic assumption made about property taxes and corporate income taxes).
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html
Then there is this little tidbit on an economist talking about progressive taxes...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-18/obama-might-trade-parties-with-paul-ryan-commentary-by-laurence-kotlikoff.html
He thinks obama is less progressive than ryan! lol!
Suzy - Only in politics, as in much of life, truth is subjective.
Hi Suzy. This leftie agrees. Truer words were never spoken.
A counterpoint from an independent voter that voted for Obama... Things like economic ramifications of specific actions in an economy the size of the US are so complex, what is the "truth" is very subjective and often depends on a persons preconceived notions.
I personally think Ryan's proposal is more substantive than Obama's - although I prefer the deficit committee's recommendations over both of them.
I also think Obama is more interested in scoring political points than in reducing the deficit, and I thought his remarks were very partisan and non-productive.
For Ryan, although I disagree with some things he pushes for, I think overall he is a fiscal conservative and truly wants to reduce the deficit. Like Obama, I think a lot of his remarks are partisan - but the underlying current is a desire to lower the deficit so I give him some slack (not much, but some).
I agree with Ron on this one. The debt commission proposals were good and should have been acted upon, if not in total at least as a good basis for negotiation. I agree that Ryan's proposal is not perfect, but it is certainly more substantive than any alternatives to date. I also agree that both are trying to score political points but I guess that is not a surprise. I truly want to see a credible Democratic proposal. The proposed 2012 budget is a joke.
FR: "The DCCC is launching a paid and grassroots campaign (consisting of radio ads, Web ads, phone calls, and email alerts) that targets the effort to phase out Medicare."And so the demagoguery begins.
This is from an AP story last week: "Virtually every budget expert in Washington agrees that projected Medicare cost increases are unsustainable, but the GOP initiative — attacked by Democrats as ending Medicare's guarantee as we know it — has launched a major-league Washington imbroglio….'They end the Medicare guarantee,' said top Budget Committee Democrat Chris Van Hollen of Maryland."
These quotes concisely capture how the battle lines are being drawn on this issue. On the one side are those who look aghast at the sharply rising future costs of the program. These are folks in the room who have the brains to recognize the problem. On the other side are folks who have big bleeding hearts, but whether they have an ounce of brains among the lot of them would be a most generous presumption.
Going forward in time, seniors will have to pay more for their health care. Period. And the reason is because the costs to sustain Medicare in its current form are so huge that it would swallow up most of the tax revenue available to the federal government. If the Social Security financing problem (bad as it is) were akin to a tugboat, the Medicare problem would be an ocean liner.
Despite that reality, Dems insist that government needs to bear this financial burden irrespective of the consequences to the nation's finances. Their preferred solution (as always) is to raise taxes, especially on the evil rich. Getting back to that brains issue, these folks must be a bit mathematically challenged because they don't seem to quite understand just how high taxes would need to be raised to fix this problem. And they sure don't care about the impact such onerous tax rates would have on the country's economic growth. After all, this is the same crowd that thinks government creates jobs.
In a perfect world, the Republican idea of reforming Medicare by replacing the open ended government subsidy with a voucher-type payment might never see the light of day. Unfortunately, our world is far from perfect and we've made it a lot less perfect along the way with a government that has made unrealistic promises which it can never hope to fulfill.
Enter those folks with brains. Folks who see an intractable problem and devise a solution that makes it more manageable. No one is saying that Republicans are going to wave a magic wand and make all manner of bad things go away. But what we are saying is the Medicare financing problem is so dire that something needs to be done, and in the absence of a perfect world more of the costs will need to be borne by those receiving the care. The Dems can let their hearts bleed until the cows come home, but it won't change the reality we're facing.
Bill,
In a world of stagnant wages, collapsing stock markets, and rising costs, what do you propose seniors use to pay increasing costs on fixed incomes?
What brilliant survival plans are we all missing? We are losing our jobs, homes, and pensions. So, what do you propose we do to stockpile money to meet all these costs?
"Bleeding hearts" my @$$!!! 12-5 ain't exactly sitting in the couch cushions! Are seniors supposed to do without to keep tax rates artificially low for 2% of the population? You better hope you die young then! Hey, why don't we try serving ALL the people, not just the $250k plus crowd!!
Well Auntie, I guess you haven't seen this:
"According to Internal Revenue Service data, the entire taxable income of everyone earning over $100,000 in 2008 was about $1.582 trillion," reported the Wall Street Journal on the morning after Obama's speech. "Even if all these Americans -- most of whom are far from wealthy -- were taxed at 100 percent, it wouldn't cover Mr. Obama's deficit for this year."
The fact of the matter is that raising taxes doesn't come anywhere close to fixing our deficit and debt problems. The fact of the matter is that individuals -- whether we like it or not -- are going to have to bear more of the burden for paying for services the government has been providing with its open ended subsidies, such as Medicare. And folks -- whether we like it or not -- will need to disicipline ourelves to save enough during our productive earning years to pay for the heatlth care and other costs during our retired years.
There's nothing wrong with bearing personal responsibility for one's life. Unless of course you're a leftist, who believes the fantasy that tons of dollars can be pulled from the evil rich to take care of people who have chosen not to take care of themselves.
Bill,
Enough of the glib generalities. I need some specifics. In the economy created by the "corporate people", the cost of everything skyrockets, and wages stagnate or disappear when you get laid off.
Now, please tell me, how is that our fault?
You don't operate based on reality Bill. You are a corporate fairytale spinner. You have no reality based solutions.
Get back at me when you know how to "save" when gas goes up, health care goes up, food goes up, and wages go down.
Its simple math Bill. The system is rigged against us. And you can't even begin to deny it.
And to add insult to injury? When the "corporate people" really screw up? It is us broke a$$ jokers who have to foot the bill while ya'll lecture us about saving and coupons.
I'll give ya'll one thing . . . you got balls.
And here's some more, from Saturday's WSJ:
"Consider the Internal Revenue Service's income tax statistics for 2008, the latest year for which data are available. The top 1% of taxpayers—those with salaries, dividends and capital gains roughly above about $380,000—paid 38% of taxes. But assume that tax policy confiscated all the taxable income of all the "millionaires and billionaires" Mr. Obama singled out. That yields merely about $938 billion, which is sand on the beach amid the $4 trillion White House budget, a $1.65 trillion deficit, and spending at 25% as a share of the economy, a post-World War II record."
Among other things, what that factoid demonstrates is the pure class warfare demagoguery of Obama when he goes on his riff about taxing the wealthy as the path to solve our fiscal problems. In fact, the real tax money lies in the vast and saintly middle class that Obama has promised to protect from nefarious tax increases. Unfortunately, our deficit and problems are so HUGE that even taxing the middle class at onerous rates doens't fix the problem.
Ergo, we need to cut spending.
Let's see, $12,500 per year, if you retire at 70, that's $125,000 if you figure you'll live another 10 years! You're suppposed to save for that and retirement and your kid's educations and pay for food, clothing, shelter? That's IF you can get and keep a job! That's IF your job doesn't get outsourced! That's IF you don't lose your job because some "genius" decided that 2 people can do the work of 3! That's on pay that's not keeping up with the cost of living!
Thank you for confirming that the Republicans really DON'T give a damn about us!! The Republicans at least have a great sex life! They're CONSTANTLY screwing 98% of the country!
Bill,
Watching you debate with yourself is very entertaining! If the voices get to be more than two though, you might wanna see someone.
lol
P.S. Wow! Nobody knew we needed to cut spending until you posted that WSJ link! Thanks! Now if you ask me, we need to cut every penny going to none human entities before we start screwing over grandma, but whatever you, yourself, and you decide is fine with me.
That's Obama, attempting to shore up his base. What's odd is that Obama goes off with his "tax the rich" dogma, but wasn't it him that signed the Bush Tax Cuts Extension (now the Obama Tax Cuts) last December? And the Liberals just love it when Obama talks about raising taxes!! They think the tax code is there to punish those that are more successful than they are, and if you're "rich" well, that's because you're fortunate, not because you worked 80 hours a week for years to achieve your success.
There is no economic plan anywhere that shows increased taxation as any kind of a solution for the debt/deficit problem. You might get 10-20% of deficit reduction through taxation, but the remaining portion needs to be done through cost cutting and growth. And good luck with getting any kind of growth while Obama practices his Keynesian economics.
Again, Bill is WRONG in his assertion. We DO have a revenue problem in this country, and all of the cutting in the world does nothing but drive up the cost of services and living unnecessarily. Without simultaneously addressing the spending AND the revenue issues we have in this country, we will never be able to eliminate the deficit. By NOT addressing the revenue part of the equation, we will continue to be 'out of balance' fiscally.
I find it hilarious that Bill tells us that 'we need to dicipline ourselves to save enough during our productive years' but neglects to address - or even acknowledge - that the cost of living seems to continually rise.
If Bill's assertions are correct, then those that are retired would NOT NEED any additional income for their retirement. As we know, and can see, although the retiree incomes stay static, their expenses do not. It is a fool's errand - and foolish - to think that you can ever 'save' enough money 'during your productive years' and NOT have to supplement that income during retirement.
Unfortunately for many, they are finding out that this 'line of thinking' that Bill proports is causing our retirees to scramble for ANY job they can.
Our retirees deserve better.
JoAnna:
Sorry to interrupt you while you attempt to join Bill in his delusions ,but the TRUTH is that 30% of the current deficit comes from the original Bush Tax cuts, and the extension of the tax cuts, at the insistence of the Republican Party, who held a gun to the heads of the unemployed, will add another $544 billion over the next two years . . . now that is a good bit more than 10 to 20% that you throw above. So if you want to "cut spending", seems like that is a great place to start.
But of course, you don't want to cut spending, you want to defend the honor of the beleagered rich who have purchased our government and are using it to enrich themselves at the expense of the country.
Good luck with that.
Ummm, let me try this again. If the government confiscated 100% of the incomes of the top 1% of earners in the country, the bounty would only come to $938 billion -- in the context of our current year deficit of $1.65 trillion AND a $14 trillion debt. So those who suggest that we have a revenue problem don't seem to quite understand that even onerous -- and I do mean ONEROUS -- tax increases to goose the revenue side fall pitifully short of dragging us out of the hole we're in.
And here's more: there is pain in our future whether taxes are jacked up to ridiculaous levels or not. There is either the pain that will ensue when Uncle Sugar cuts back on the goodies. Or, there is the pain that will ensue some time down the road when the bond vigilantes vote "no confidence" in U.S. debt and lead interets rates (and inflation) to go through the roof.
So pay me now, or pay me later. The impending generation of retirees will have it much tougher than recent generations. The left can bleed all over that as much as they want, but it won't change the reality that ALL of us are facing.
I have seen this line of 'defence' before. What Bill neglects to tell you is that this debt has been building and compounding over 30 years. Now if you take the $938 BILLION figure and multiply it over 30 years, we would have more than enough to cover the deficit.
So, Bill we DO have a revenue problem. A BIG one that has been neglected for 30 years and promulgated by 30 years of very BAD tax and fiscal policy. I am kind of surprised that you have not recognized that. Maybe you don't want to.
The fact of the matter is this - many of the 'rich' are telling us that they are WILLING to pay more. Heck, even Milton Friedman has stated publicly that the Bush Tax Cuts need to be rescinded because it is bad fiscal policy. Go ahead, Bill, let me see you denigrate Milton Friedman.
We have, no doubt, a HUGE cleanup effort that we MUST deal with. What I see the squabbling over is how big of a broom you are going to use to clean up 30 years of accumulated elephant poop.
The deficit comes from the government spending more money than it has. Do you understand that the deficit is from the present and the debt is from the past? You seem really tied up in blaming who did what and when they they did it. Fine, you can have your pity and finger pointing party, see where that gets you. The fact remains, the current debt load of the country is a danger to its future and the current deficit spending needs to be brought under control and eliminated.
No one trusts the government to tax the people more and just not spend that money too. Until the government shows that it can control its spending, the idea of tax hikes is murky at best.
This is some of the most bizarre and delusional thinking I've ever seen. Spending must be cut, and the entitlement spending is what needs to be reformed and brought under control. I advocate the Debt Commission report first, but accept the Ryan plan as that is the one that is politically feasible. What plan to do you advocate?
OK, let me get this straight. You're proposing that the government confiscate 100% of the income of the top 1% of the country's wage earners every year for the next 30 years? Ummm, I don't think that will fly.
JoAnna:
When it comes to bizarre and delusional thinking, you certainly are qualified to make the call. I advocate a plan based on reality. You say folks don't trust the "government", but actually, it is the same scoundrels that first run up the debt and then try to offer "solutions" as if they are blameless that I don't trust.
What is truly hysterical is to hear all of ya'll with one voice claim that you don't want to play the "blame game", when all the while ya'll are taking every opportunity to blame President Obama for the mess that YOU created.
Hypocrites much?
You can't refute the facts, so you just try to muddy the water.
"Discussion" over.
P.S. Bill, can't answer any of my questions, huh? It is becaused they are based in realty. lol
Saving for retirement is a matter of priority, not circumstance. My best friend has 4 kids an an annual income of slightly less than $60k. They manage 15% of their income socked away into various investments in preparation for retirement, plus a mortgage, tuition for 2 kids in private school and all the other things that come with life. They understand the importance of saving because for our entire lives we've been told do not count on Social Security to be there for you when you retire. Many in my generation have assumed that to mean Medicare as well. So they drive older vehicles with high mileage. They shop sales and use coupons. They buy a lot of the kids clothing at garage sales. They don't have credit cards that make it too easy to buy more than you need. And the retirement savings comes off the top before the money is even figured into the budget. Every single one of us is capable of saving something but most of us choose not to because we prefer to live for right now. Instead of buying the generic brand, we want the one with the flashy box and the high priced ad campaign. Instead of driving a vehicle for many years, we want the flashy new one with all the bells and whistles. Instead of an affordable home that leaves some disposable income at the end of the month, we want the McMansion to show off to our friends and announce our success to the world. Instead of saving for a vacation, we charge it and pay for it later. We are all products of our choices and the fact that most of us choose badly (yes, myself included sometimes) doesn't mean it should be the government's job to bail our stupid arses out. Social Security and Medicare by themselves might be OK, but when we throw in every other feel good social program, well, we have a problem we can't fix by ignoring.
They can make their check payable to the Bureau of the Public Debt, and in the memo section, notate that it is a Gift to reduce the Debt Held by the Public. Mail the check to:
Attn Dept G
Bureau Of the Public Debt
P. O. Box 2188
Parkersburg, WV 26106-2188
Suzy:
Funny . . . GE and BP never have to clip no coupons . . . and when they make "bad choices" I get to pay for it. Ya'll are so cute with are your tips for survival . . . because we are all living in mansions . . . that is so funny. Yep, if I hadn't bought that Ferrari, I could save for retirement.
Stupid me.
Lawd have mercy.
Really? Again, what plan is that? There aren't that many plans out there Nash, our options are really quite limited. So be a big gal now and pick one.
Really? How much did you pay? Odd you left out GM. That's one where you will be paying.
Bill - No, it won't, just like your 'scenario' describing how confiscating all of the income of the top 1% will dent the deficit.
What I AM pointing out is that if you are going to use this hypothetical to make a point, at LEAST be consistent. We have 30 years of tax cuts/debt that we are dealing with, so why would you want to compare the income of the 1% for ONE year?
That doesn't even pass the giggle test. Not even for you, Bill.
Pietro, nashville and auntie - based on the following link the US has been in debt a lot longer than 30 years, looks more like since 1800. Deficits go +/-.
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/debt_deficit_history
Think that tax cuts don't increase revenue how do you explain this?...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-18/get-rich-pay-lower-taxes-boost-u-s-revenue-commentary-by-amity-shlaes.html
Then you "progressives" think you are so smart, here is an economist who considers ryans plan far more "progressive" than obamas.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-18/republicans-democrats-dig-in-on-debt-after-s-p-credit-downgrade.html
Nashville, I know you are going to love this, "where were the democrats in all of this?"
Woulda, coulda, shoulda doesn't matter. We have a fast growing debt problem where interest payments alone will be approaching $ 1 trillion before long and when the FED increases interest rates later this year our interest payment will grow even faster.
Current entitlement spending is unsustainable and the baby boomers are starting to arrive!
Obama has good sounding re-election rhetoric but where are his numbers??
American,
Those with the income pay the income tax. But you knew that, right?
I love how ya'll try to complicate stuff with charts and numbers and experts.
Let me make it plain . . . all them charts and numbers don't change the simple fact that we did EVERYTHING that ya'll asked us to do . . . and it DIDN'T WORK!
Peace.
Nash, way to promote the party line- if you stop blaming everyone else and worry about yourself, it might make sense. When did it become the government's job to bail you out? Saving has nothing to do with GM or BP and their choices. Yes, we all pay for their stupid mistakes (that were brought on by stupid decisions made by Congress, I get that part too) and it sucks, but savings still has everything to do with personal choices. You get a paycheck that is automatically reduced for taxes. What you do with the rest is up to you. Do you NEED the $4 latte every day? Do you NEED to buy convenience foods rather than making things from scratch? Do you NEED to buy that new pair of jeans or sweater? Sometimes the answer is yes, it's a true need, but I know very few people who are truly unable to save. It's just not convenient. It's not near as much fun as spending right now. When push comes to shove, though, it's all about our priority level. As individuals AND as a country, we've been more focused on the material than on the intangibles for a long long time. We forgot to save for a rainy day and we never considered a flood possible so here we sit with a pile of bills coming due and nothing to pay them down with because now we really are in a pickle. We've made luxury goods necessary for so long that we can't figure out how to cut back. SO yes, right now, saving is a challenge for many, but its because of past choices that we're in a bind.
Nashville - again you astound us with your rapier wit and intelligence. Here I thought if you could see pictures you would understand. Especially in light of your inability to read and comprehend.
Anytime you want to dispute IRS numbers you go right ahead.
Nashville, you are a true classic, a classic siasd.
Hi suzy - I do like your style!
Suzy,
You, my friend, are full of it.
This isn't about no latte money, mmmmkay.
Most Americans could save their ENTIRE CHECK and it still won't be enough to keep up with increases in the cost of living and health care.
This is a fact.
But hey, if it makes you feel like a big girl to keep doling out financial advice when you don't know me from Adam's house cat, cool.
I am a small business owner, have a degree in business, and am not looking for financial advice from the peanut gallery.
We are not all one coupon away from success, Suzy.
Give it a rest.
What a funny exchange. Classic example of facts and figures answered with a predictable final snarky remark. Worth the entertainment value of reading the whole thread twice.
Can't wait until Nov 6 2012 when 0bama becomes a 1 term POTUS - the country will recover quickly once he and his regime is gone.
independent - I guess "common sense" isn't in nashvilles training. I also found it amusing that if he is indeed a small business owner he is so willing to ignore graphs and statistics. Wonder if he knows what a spreadsheet does?
Since suzy was astute enough to give simple to understand personal economies that individuals can use to save, I am thinking that small (minded) business owner owns a coffe kiosk or a lone gas station/food mart.
The President's speech played very well - for the ever shrinking pool of people with enough mental fortitude to listen for something other than sound bytes.
You guys in the media should try it sometime.
0bama used to give a good speech - last week that was pitiful. No wonder he did it during the day when no one was listening.
Beltway Wisdom? I think the beltway media needs to get out of the Washington DC bubble. Seriously, the President's speech last week did NOT backfire. I doubt half the population even knows he gave a speech. I doubt half the people have heard of Paul Ryan's 2012 budget plan. I doubt half the population knows the GOP voted to kill medicare as we know it. The beltway media hovers around the Tea Party rallies reporting which were quite small from 12 to a few hundred yet ignore the thousands attending huge pro-labor, grass roots rallies happening throughout the country. The TV media reported on Sarah Palin's Madison speech but made no mention that her little Tea Party group was surrounded by hundreds of pro-labor protesters and Palin could not be heard by those standing a few yards from the stage.
False Choices. For 30 years republicans have been stuck on Ronald Reagan's Voo Doo Economics. They have spoken the words "tax cuts" creates jobs and increases revenues for decades and refuse to face the truth--it did not work for Presidents Reagan, Bush and Bush. Reagan realized his trickle down economics was a failure and at least raised taxes to counter the 189% he had added to the national debt. Bush 41 raised taxes but he increased the national debt by another 55%. The damage had been done. President Clinton working with Newt Gingrich raised taxes and the U.S. was finally on the road to budget surpluses and paying down the debt. Enter President Bush, who took taxes even lower than Reagan. Bush 43 and the GOP majority Congress spent six (6) years spending mountains of borrowed money and decreasing revenues. It is fact, they did not create jobs, did not increase revenues and they nearly destroyed the country based on a rigid ideological view that simply cannot sustain let alone produce economic growth.
There was a time when tax cuts for businesses and for the wealthy would impact the economy for the good of everyone. But as with interest rates, when the tax brackets become this low, they do nothing to stimulate the economy even when cut more. When the 400 richest Americans pay an average 17% tax rate and when the average American pays 9.6%, when 34% of the country's businesses pay zero income taxes, it decreases the Government, state and federal, revenues to the point where none of the governments can provide much productive economic growth. For the economy to grow, there must be investment in local, state and interstate programs. For education to thrive, there must be investment in it. For the country to succeed in the future, we must be willing to invest in it collectively through the tax system.
It is time everyone, regardless of party, recognizes the reality of today's deficit and debt problems. We have a revenue problem, not a spending problem. That revenue shortage creates problems for towns, cities, states and the federal government. The USA is not equal to what it was in the 1930's or even the 1980's. Population has increased substantially, we are much more globally connected, we have more cars, more electronics, more of everything and those things mean we need a smart government with enough people to do the job effectively. What happens in the Middle East, China, Japan, Europe affects us.
In order to reduce the debt, Congress cannot concentrate on 12% of discretionary spending. Discretionary spending for roads, schools, bridges, education is critical to improving the country. The problem is not Social Security or Medicare, the problem is the declining wages of 98% of the population. The problem is not medicaid, the problem is the cost of health care not the program. Medicare is not the problem, it is the cost of health care for the elderly. Social Security is not the problem, it is fully funded until 2037 with nearly a $3 trillion surplus.
To get out of this hole that has been dug primarily by the GOP (yes, the facts support this statement), it means raising taxes on the rich to at least 39.6, it means creating additional tax brackets for multi-millionaires and billionaires; it means raising taxes for everyone. It means raising the capital gains taxes to at least 28% (where Reagan felt appropriate). It mean increasing the revenues of the country in order to invest in the country and to pay down the debt. Anyone, any party that says "spending cuts" alone and claiming additional tax cuts for the 2% richest will solve this crisis is living on ideology and not reality.
Well said Jody!
Totally agree on that. The media continues to pander to the Right Wingers by promoting their agenda of "NO". They are emboldened to continue this practice as you said, half the country doesn't know...
But hey, all bad news is good news as long as it generates revenue.
The Ryan Plan is muy bad. We need a motto for the Ryan Plan,
Ryan's 'Hope'less Plan?
Cryin' Ryan's Tears for the Rich Plan?
Ryan's Bitter TEA and Herb Plan for Better Health?
Republican's Malpractice on America Plan?
A sad state of affairs
Jody:
Yes we all know everything bad in America is Republicans fault. Oh I mean George Bush.....
That is getting real old and it is played out... You Liberals need to find some new talking points, no one is listening to that BS anymore.
IntheMiddle:
The truth hurts, huh?
Nobody gives a rats @#$ what you are tired of. YOU and the Republican Party dropped a big old turd on all of us, and now you are tired of hearing that it stinks?
Tough titty.
P.S. This is not just about President Bush, it is also about Speaker Boehner and Eric Cantor and Paul Ryan, the same clowns who are now parading around like peacocks pretending like this ain't all there fault.
Hi Nash,
May I add the the Tea Bagger -Birther party?
ITM. Yes, the blame lies squarely at the feet of the modern GOP and Bush 43 was its latest reincarnation of Voo Doo. The truth hurts ITM and everytime a conservative gets on this board and complains about liberals blaming Bush without ever providing evidence to the contrary just proves how right we are.
Yes you may Job1, yes you may! :o)
All it proves is how much Liberals whine and whine about every little thing. If yo udon't like Republicans that much, vote them out....The problem is you can't because the country is divided and you have to pray and depend upon a lously 5-10% that are so-called independents. You can whine about these politicians all day long but each and every one of them has a core constituency that is going to vote for them. The only person each are beholden to is that group of people in his/her district or state. I live in district 22 in Texas, what happens in district 2 is not my concern per say......you see how that works. Just like that crap in Wisconsin, does not affect me, has nothing to do with me in no shape, form or fashion so whatever happens is on them.
The reason all of your lives appear to be soooooo miserable is because you spend every moment of it crying about politicians and what they are doing. A POLITICIAN IS A POLITICIAN and they ALL do and say things to benefit themselves or the people that VOTED FOR THEM to a lesser extreme.
You are the people complaining about Bush, why don't you provide evidence of what he did to YOU PERSONALLY.............besides hurt your little feeelings.
Golly gee folks, since it is all the republican/tea party/bush fault that all of this is happening why can't anyone tell us where the democrats were?
I do so like the expression of "voodoo economics" especially when one considers that except for 2 years, reagan had to deal with democrats that controlled both the senate and the house and frequently sparred with the Honorable speaker of the house Tip O'niel.
Rather surprised that you don't rail against FDR and Truman for creating the "baby boomers"
Has anyone else noticed that most of the talk about Donald Trump is about his persona and not his policies?
What the heck is he proposing to do? Will it actually work? Can we get a little journalism please?
The "media" is basically just working as this clown's press secretary.
No kidding Nash - best part is, it's FREE!
Last week it was Merideth Viera entertaining the clown! As if that wasn't enough, now we get Savannah rehashing last weeks news!
That was some fine journalism I say, when she asked about the 'Donald' releasing his financials and his reponse was as soon as Obama releases his birth certificate!
All that was missing was the 'neener - neener - neener!
What a absolutely riveting interveiw! *insert snark*
So true, Nashville and Feisty. Where's the journalist asking Trump why he was pro-choice, pro-universal health care, pro-single pay health care, pro-increasing taxes on the rich, pro-Obama prior to his recent dipping his toes into running for president? Trump is everything the GOP dislikes yet no journalist bothers to point it out. They're stuck on stupid and what stupid says.
I had MSNBC on to watch the President's speech. They showed a bit of it but while he was speaking--split screen with Chris Jansen and two analysts chattering and throwing out their views of the speech--how about letting the viewer hear the speech and make up their own minds? I don't need Rick Lazio and Lynn Rothchild telling me what I should think.
Nash, Jody, Feisty - can't you see that by having Donald Trump out there saying all of these crazy things is crowding out Sarah Palin?
I firmly believe that this is NOT an accident. It is not an accident that you see Donald Trump out there talking about a presidental run. it is not an accident that 'The Donald' will probably recuse himself when the time is right.
Why?
Because the GOP/Tea Party does NOT want Sarah Palin getting ANY traction - at all - as she is TOXIC to their brand. The same goes for Michelle Bachmann. What they are trying to do is to keep the 'noise' machine going long enough so a suitable candidate can be announced or until President Obama does something to screw up.
I do admit that all of this is GREAT entertainment!
Four items that worked SO well for the repubs in the 2008 elections, that they need to bring them back again in 2012:
Teleprompter
Birth Certificate
Bill Ayres
Reverend Wright.
As overheard on the greens at Bushwood Country Club: Wellllllll...........we're waiting!
Psst Buzz... Don't l@@k now but you forgot 57 states... ;o)
In the Tea Bagger inner circle talking points:
Un-American
Black Kenyan Mau Mau revolution supporter.
Stole the 2008 election with the help of Acorn.
Socialist who hates America.
Uppity Black Man.
Good one, DBO.
of course mccain brought none of those subjects up...wouldn't even let people mention the name 'hussein'
nice lie....let me guess you must be a liberal!
The race card doesn't work anymore. We elected a black man POTUS by 7% points. The Indy's and the GOP won't accept the race card - it is invalid - no longer taken by anyone - kinda like Diners Club.
Donald is not running, the "liberal media" knows Donald is not not running. It is a way to take focus from the awful economic plan the republicans have for the country. The pundits jump from nutty far out semi candidate (Bachman/Palin) to worse semi candidate (trump.
Before the election the watch word for conservative pundits like Chuck was jobs!!jobs!!jobs!! Since they helped republicans win, no more talk about jobs.
I think he's running. He's a power hungry man, and realizes he can win a Republican Nod over the other crazies. Just my thought.
Giggidy
( =^/)
Patrick SLC:
Correct. You have hit the nail on the head. Just more crap trying to steer us away from the real problems. This is what happens when the other party has no new ideas and the ones they do have will lead the country down a path toward total "Oligarchy" or worse.
Guy's Trump is not going to run. There's no way he will release his financial records, he doesn't want everyone to know he's broke. Why else would he host a reality show if he has as much money as he claims he does. He needs money and you can bet he'll pull a Sara and start charging 100,000 dollars to give a speech. I've leaned in my long life if someone stands in front of you and tells you how much money they have it's a pretty good bet they're broke.
I see the same loony leftists are in here as usual. Congratulating each other on their brilliant posts I am guessing. ha ha ha.
" Watch the entire interview; it's a classic example of someone allowing irritation to show."
President Obama has been the target of unrelenting, and unwarranted attacks from the right-wing demagogues since he took office, and from his "friends" on the left like Howard Fineman and Paul Krugman. It has been noted he stayed calm and collected and did not hit back. What is this guy, a saint? I'm glad to see him show disgust, finally, with the agressive and negative attacks on him, as displayed by this smarmy Texan journalist. Would the journalist challenge Gov Perry on the inaccurate things he says? I doubt it.
Amy, good points.
It is a good thing you used a qualifier for "Texas journalist" Amy. It is requisite for the job here in the BIG SKY loony bin to be smarmy (see TOM DELAY for further definition).
I say give 'em HE!! Mr. President! The truth is he has held his head well above the fray the last 2+ years. I'd have ripped into someone a long time ago. No Republican elected official could keep his cool this way if attacked without cause continuously for standing up for what is right for AMERICA.
Tell it like it is Mr. President. Do NOT back down. Our country is at stake. Our middle class is a moose in Sarah sights and the bats-in-the-belfry crowd is about to fire their collective shot at US ALL. Sheild Us Obama for they know what they do will destroy US ALL. America is not ready for return to serfdom, it is ready for TRUTH and JUSTICE. But most of all FREEDOM from the oligarchy of wealthy corporate strings that keep pulling the economy ditchward until they get their way. Then the ditch will be renamed the "Boulevard to NO WHERE" and we will be sold on a "new normal" as defined by these jerks.
It's not a movie plot. THIS IS REAL! TIME TO STAND UP AND BE COUNTED FOR THE AMERICAN WAY! WE HELP EACH OTHER THROUGH THE HARD TIMES. ALWAYS HAVE until now.
Obama is doing that and we need to back him up. Tell it like it is, let truth be told and fight back without apology EVERYDAY!
Chuck is still trying to to manufacture divisions between House Democrats and the President in his interview with Steve Israel DCCC chairman on the Daily Rundown Shoe this morning. Give it up Chuck, when it comes to the Ryan budget democrats are united.
The debt situation and Obama's desire to continue to spend like there is no tomorrow is going to wake up enough Americans to vote Obama out of office. Obama continues to talk about shared sacrifice and the need for everyone to pay their fair share in taxes. But does he really mean what he says? The tax code for individuals and corporations needs reform. If this reform does not address the 45% of tax filers who pay zero federal income tax then the shared sacrifice has to mean real cuts in federal programs if Obama really believes in shared sacrifice. Raise the top tax rate and or eliminate deductions. But also reduce spending in a meaningful way. Borrowing 40 cents of every dollar spent cannot and will not last much longer. Congress also needs to take a pay and benefit cut. To just send more money to Washington without some reforms and spending cuts will just mean the money will be spent period.
No, it won't.
What HAS happened is that more people are aware now than ever before that the GOP and the Tea Party are NOT doing what they advertised they would do. The mantra was 'Jobs, Jobs, Jobs' up to the midterm elections, and the majority of the electorate BELIEVED that GOP would be working to promote job growth.
What has happened is just the opposite. Many of the newer proposals would have thrown 700,000 people OUT of a job. We have had 'buyer's remorse' sweep many of the states, with Michigan, Florida and Wisconsin as the ones that are the MOST remorseful.
Can you explain why there are recalls being planned and executed in many states, with the targets being more Republicans than Democrats?
President Obama will continue to lead this country and the electorate will most likely give him a hand in 2012, that is unless the GOP and the Tea Partyers can come up with a reason/reasons why the electorate should NOT to support the President.
The media is complicit in the narrative being driven that the debt and deficit problems began with Barack Obama. So it does not concern me that the WH response to Standard & Poors’ “downgrading” was
ho-hum.
If S & P is so good at predicting the downfall of the US economy where were they in 2007/2008 when George Bush was driving the country off of a cliff? Remember that little mini-depression we just emerged from?
Only Lawrence O’Donnell and Rachel Maddow point out the inconsistencies in the way the beltway media handles this story. If it is bad news, it’s Obama’s fault and the Republicans are presented as having the answer if only President Obama would just compromise.
Where are the Network journalists whose job it is to present the facts? They present the talking points of the Republican Party and then say stupid sh!t like “the President doesn’t seem to have an answer”. As if, he should always have a ready response for the party of No Ideas and fake budget numbers.
We have a nerve making fun of Quaddafi’s propaganda machine when ours is in high gear!
Pietro - since the republicans believe that a business friendly government environment is what creates jobs, why do they need to create a "job" bill? Obama, in december 2010 has given business a variety of tax cuts, incentives and credits for expanding. Seems that the only thing lacking is consumer demand for the goods and services that Americas businesses creates. You can't legislate that.
Sheila - S&P didn't downgrade the US, they simply gave it a negative rating based on concerns that the current political climate in the US wouldn't be able to address our medium and long term debt issues.
Even the IMF doesn't think the US is doing enough.
If S&P ever did downgrade the US yesterdays stock blip will look like a tiny anthill in comparison to the crash of 2013.
American - you are absolutely right - you CANNOT legislate customer demand for goods and services. But you CAN legislate the conditions that PROMOTE demand for goods and services. The GOPers and the Tea Partyers are pretty short-sighted in how they view things, especially business environment(s).
The GOPers made a critical error with their 'lassiez faire' style of governance that created the mess that we are in today. They didn't think to do is set a foundation that will sustain their 'propped up' economic model(s).
American - the 'disposable income' that is needed to spur economic growth enough to eliminate the deficits are GONE (we spent ALL of it between 2001 and 2009). What is sustaining this country right now is pure inertia and people making the choices to pay for what is necessary ONLY (in most cases).
Sure there have been incentives and tax credits to businesses to encourage expanding, but if people have no money, why WOULD they expand? If I were them, I would be sitting on a pile of cash too - waiting until there is enough demand to JUSTIFY my expansion.
What the Government can do is to provide the 'stimulus' to 'stimulate' more spending so that there is more money to be made by business interests. This is why SPENDING - or INVESTMENT - is SO important right now by the Government. At some point, there will be enough invested capital in the economy where it will not be necessary for the government to 'stimulate' the economy any more. The trick is to spend the Government money WISELY and INVEST in things that will bring a return - usually projects that will stimulate job creation and growth.
That is why the jobs bill is important. Businesses are NOT going to expand unless there is a reason to. Until people have some disposable income in their pockets, they will CONTINUE to be tight-fisted in how they spend and on what they spend their money on.
America - Obama, in december 2010 has given business a variety of tax cuts, incentives and credits for expanding.
American you correctly point out that Obama gave out the tax cut extensions in December. What is the reason for the only slight bump in hiring? I concur with Pietro, there is little disposable income for personal luxury spending items. Just as it has been pointed out that the majority of the US budget is consumed by the big three mandatory spending policies of medicare, medicaid and social security; people are spending their income on food, shelter and clothing.
For some there is not anything left over. Now is not the time to throw a bucket of water on the small spark of a recovery we have. Instead, It would seem a jobs bill could help fan the flames to grow our economy.
pietro - you state...
How so?
You mention...
Are you saying that government spent it? You are not clear on how you worded it.
Huh?....
The FED has been stimulating the economy with its QE1 and QE2 plans, the 2009 $900 boillion stimulas plan did little to stimulate or promote private sector jobs. You mention businesses and people sitting on mounds of cash. That is the source of "invested cash" not government borrowed money. You are entirelty correct on having the government spending wisely. If the government had used 2/3 of the $900 billion in stimulas funds by distributing it equally amongst the tax payers that would have really stimulated the economy. The remaining 1/3 could have still been used for emergency unemployment extensions, medicaid and protective services (only) retention.
In retrospect, why should we repeat the fiasco of the 2009 stimulas package? and how is it to be funded?
Greeting yellowdog I trust the weather in texas is warmer than here in iowa. Really wet and chilly for this time of year, tough to get seeds to germinate.
Yes, having a disposible income is required to generate additional demand, wasn't that what obama also did with respect to reductions in payroll taxes and FICA taxes? The FED QE was also meant to get more cash circulating as well.
While a "job program" at this time would provide a return of self esteem and well being to many of the unemployed as well as income. Would that income really be enough to go beyond the neccesities of food, shelter and transportation?
In light of seriously large future projected deficits I am thinking that the government has already put us in a "catch 22" hole that only growth in the private sector can even begin to address. With such large deficits/debt levels how can anyone or business look at it and confidently predict they can pay it off
Increased food and fuel prices won't help either as they also impact discretionary spending.
As usual, you and peitro have expressed a good point on discretionary income to help consumer demand.
Sheila is clueless - 0bama has no plans other than to demagogue the Repub plans. The lame stream media will try to help 0bama out but it will be to no avail. The American people have long stopped listening to the Lame Stream Media and know that 0bama has no clue and is in way over his head.
Polls? Seriously, this article is about poll results? I hate polls. I don't pay Any attention to them. Polls are Only as reliable and factual as the honesty of the questions asked. Words are masterfully arranged in order to elicit the response the pollster Wants to achieve.
Obama hit the ball out of the park for My family and friends!
I agree, these days the only poll that matters is the rationalized poll inside one's own mind. All the other polls are made for profit.
AJ, well said. The President's speech hit it out of the park for me, my family and friends as well. I really don't care what the beltway media thinks, it's as irrelevant as a poll asking if high gas prices are a problem.
so your family and friends are the recipient class, obviously, not the worker class.
AJ - waiting by the mailbox outside the double-wide for the check in the mail. Can't you get direct deposit yet?
FR:
No. The every poll that's been done in recent months shows that the public overwhelmingly supports raising upper-income taxes to address the budget problem, just like the president proposed in his speech. While I think it's mostly gas prices affecting Obama's approval ratings, it might also have something to do with the fact that the corporate media turned on him for standing up to the Republicans in his speech.
On two of the Sunday morning talk shows last week, the idiots who interviewed Treasury Sec. Geithner asked him if Obama "poisoned the well" with his speech. If the Republicans didn't supply these people with their talking points, they wouldn't have any questions to ask. Paul Krugman noted something that the media totally ignored while they were gushing over Ryan's "serious" budget: The very first sentence in it was: "Where the president has failed, House Republicans will lead."
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/18/opinion/18krugman.html?_r=1&hp
But of course there were no questions from the media about Ryan "poisoning the well" with his bitter partisan rhetoric and ad hominem attack on the president.Â
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Bravo Houston!
Houston, as usual, you don't have any actual facts to back up anything you say. It's just the same old rhetoric from the left.
And what do you "post" as your source? Why you post the New Obama Times as some kind of "factual" backup to your claims.
Houston, you get it.
It's striking to me how the media allows the Republicans to set the tone of every debate. They allowed the Republicans to spread misinformation about the Healthcare Reform Bill, then scratched their heads over polls showing Americans thought it had been repealled, and didn't know HCR reduced the federal deficit and didn't add to it, etc. They give full attention to the birther movement and then marvel that so many voters think President Obama was born outside the United States.
Now the media is on this 'President Obama is being partisan' kick, just because he shot down a Republican budget even the Republicans didn't want to vote for because it dismantled Medicare. I just hope the new DNC chair can fire up an attack on the right the way Republicans have been attacking us, unchecked, for two solid years.
CherylLM
That's a really STUPID accusation. Do you really think that Krugman has gone all Republican and just writes stuff "not intended to be a factual statement"?
If you don't trust the evil NYT, then maybe you'll trust what comes straight from the horse's mouth.
http://paulryan.house.gov/UploadedFiles/PathToProsperityFY2012.pdf
Ryan's bitter partisan attack on the president is on page 5, just under the title: "SUMMARY OF THE FISCAL YEAR 2012 BUDGET RESOLUTION"
Amy:
Yeah, and then the media, including the First Read bunch, proclaim that the "Republicans are winning the message war" on whatever the issue is. It's no wonder that the Repubs always are declared the winners when the referees are on their team.
Excellent points, Houston. The next day after the President's speech, the media was busy reporting Ryan's "hurt" feelings, and pushing that "poisoned well" nonsense. MTP has become a joke with David Gregory's shallow and partisan questions. NBC would do well to find another Tim Russert like person--someone who will provide fairness to both sides without interjecting his/her own personal view. I used to watch it every Sunday, now I find something else with more substance.
houston: envy is such an ugly emotion. make your own money, and stop trying to take it from the rich..they pay most of the taxes already.
Hey Joe, You wanna see UGLY? Look to your RIGHT.
joe-3041821
Being a spiteful jerk who makes nasty assumptions about people he doesn't know is even uglier. And you are a jerk. I not only pay taxes, but I haven't gotten a tax refund for years. I end up sending Uncle Sam an check because of dividends and capital gains.
missy: I see a lot of UGLY on the left...the union thugs, the racist libs who want to lynch clarence thomas...not to mention hillary....
houston: you sure want the rich to pay more...why don't you put your money where your mouth is, and pay more? you just want to use THEIR money for YOUR benfit...greed and envy. jerk.
So Houston, I don't suppose you'd find it at all suspect that the same "most Americans" who think the rich should be taxed more are the not rich Americans who won't be at all affected by the increased taxes? Because from where I sit, it's really easy to spend other people's money (I should know, it's how I make my living). What happens, though, when you get your wish and revenues don't increase the way you think they will?
Say it ain't so Joe! We call union members PATRIOTS here since they've brought the working man a living wage for decades. My grandad raised 9 kids, a number of his grandkids (me for one) and greatgrandkids very well on a Union salary thank you very much. That was during the Depression too.
And don't hate Clarence Thomas, just think he's a weiner without a enough gravitas to speak up on the court in open debate. He is just a shill for the far rigth and it has NOTHING to do with his color. I disagree with the direction he and his ilk would take and is taking US ALL. WE are AMERICA. Not you. Not I. Not us or them. It is WE who are in this together.
And Dear, sweet, pie-eyed Suzy. We know what happens when Plans just don't seem to turn out as espoused. See: Previous administration Tax policy (colloquially called the BUSH tax cuts) that promised skads of new jobs and we're still waiting.................... for them. THAT DAWG DON'T HUNT NO MORE!
America has wised up ole gal. Please stop beating the cut taxes for the rich and they'll create all the new jobs we can handle drum for a sec and hear this. IT IS A PROVEN INEFFECTIVE METHOD. Greed is incurabel. Haven't you heard?
missy: you mean like that union teacher in WI who arrested for issuing death threats against republicans?
I don't hate clarence thomas...but the liberals sure do....at a code pink rally:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JJesWvO3-4
no we are not in this together...I see you union thugs trying to take as much as possible from the real working people of this country to pay for your lavish benefits.
yeah greed is incurable, and you libs greed for other people's money is insatiable.
Missy, why so snarky? Seems unnecessary. But to the point, at least one round of the Bush tax cuts, the initial I believe, was specifically intended to give the taxpayers money to SAVE for a change. Unfortunately we blew that one, too.
AS for job creation, despite a couple of buildings falling down and taking huge numbers of jobs with them, a .com bubble bursting and destroying a good number of jobs with it and a couple of natural disasters almost literally washing jobs out to sea, Bush had a net positive job gain. Perhaps not a stellar gain, I'll give you that, but he had quite a significant number to overcome. As far as Obama and job creation are concerned, there's no way to judge his effectiveness until the numbers are in the books but I think the best thing the government can do to create jobs is to get out of the way of private industry. Works like a charm every time. For the record, that holds regardless of who is in the White House.
Houston - of course when asked the question of who should contribute more, it will always be the other guy, same thing with spending cuts, Cut theirs, not mine. Some rather interesting observations based on IRS statistics. You know the federal IRS, as in the United states...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-18/get-rich-pay-lower-taxes-boost-u-s-revenue-commentary-by-amity-shlaes.html
(3) The only tax analyzed here is the federal individual income tax, which is responsible for about 25 percent of the nation's taxes paid (at all levels of government). Federal income taxes are much more progressive than payroll taxes, which are responsible for about 20 percent of
all taxes paid (at all levels of government), and are more progressive than most state and local taxes (depending upon the economic assumption made about property taxes and corporate income taxes).
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html
Who said tax cuts won't increase revenue unless you want to discredit the bush tax cuts for 2008.
Since the "save changes" didn't work in post 19.15 here is the addendum and that (3)... was to be a block quote from the following link above.
yepper - individual income taxes only make up about 25% of the total taxes the feds collect. Heck of a deal, good luck on thinking that increeasing taxes of the top 2% will have any major impact on our deficit/debt.
American .. have you not learned that presenting facts that refute the liberal talking points will never heed a response on this forum? It would invalidate the "Shared Sacrifice" talking point if one actually had to present the real statistics on how the taxes collected over the last 30 years have actually trended.
independent - True, but just because many libs choose to ignore them doesn't mean that all others want to.
The liberal press and even you libs just don't get it do you?
This is not JUST about jobs. This is not JUST about the economy. It's not JUST about the debt. It's not JUST about the record deficit spending. It's not JUST about taxes. It's not JUST about higher gas pricess that have doubled since Obama took office. It's not JUST about inflation with higher food prices. It's not JUST about the millions of homes that are going to be foreclosed on this and next year.
It's about ALL of it!
You can't blame Bush for a record 1.5 Trillion dollar deficit this year. You can't blame Bush for the continued record borrowing and spending. You can't blame Bush for unemployment OVER two years after he left office and and OVER four years after Democrats took over Congress. You can't blame Bush for the high food prices, the high gas prices, and the rising cost of living. You can't blame Bush for the 9.2% unemployment rate when it's been at 8.9% or higher for OVER two years now. You can't blame Bush for the printing of hundreds of billions of "phony" dollars that have done nothing except devalue the dollar. But you keep trying, don't you?
It's about time you start taking a look at who ACTUALLY has done all this to this county. Who actually has decided that in the name of "social justice", that despite a massive recession where millions of Americans are just trying to get by, THEY will also pay for the most expensive welfare program in our history. You need to take a look at who ACTUALLY has decided that raising taxes, AGAIN, is the answer. At who is ACTUALLY arguing that going even further in debt is the answer. At who is ACTUALLY arguing that continuing record deficit spending is good.
Why don't you wake the hell up libs? In just four years a Democratic Congress borrowed over 6 Trillion dollars to pay for their pet projects and political paybacks, payoffs, and ideological agenda. And what do YOU have to show for it with all your defense of their corruption and your hate for Bush? Why you don't have a damn thing to show for it, do you? Except of course more debt, higher taxes, more welfare programs, more borrowing, more spending, higher deficits, and not a single thing that's improved this nation's problems.
And yet you continue on, hating all those that disagree with you. Personally attacking those that don't toe the line like good little drones.
It's beyond disgusting to me that despite the TRUTH, and despite the FACTS, you just keep on with your blind faith to an ideology the ignores the Constitution, ignores the majority of the nation, and just plain ignores the entire good of the country.
CherylLM:
I can and do blame President George W. Bush, John Boehner, Eric Cantor and Paul Ryan.
It is their fault.
And now they are advocating that we do the exact same thing again and expect a different result.
That is called insanity.
The deficit was was projected at 1.2 trillion when President Obama was inaugurated, so I suggest you substitute some fact finding for your faux outrage and direct it where it belongs, at yourself and those you continue to elect who are selling you a load of bull.
This justification for Obama to destroy the country's economic base and blame it on a former President will not make points with voters in the 2012 election. Voters will see though all the talk. Obama approved and supported about half of that 1.2 trillion dollars deficit you mention and has shown he believes in racking up debt with the best of them. For this nation to stop the deficit spending before it is too late Obama has to be voted out of office. His change you can believe in, is to make us all equally dependent on government. Not what most Americans see as success. Time for real change.
Dearest Tony C:
This really isn't as hard as you are trying to make it. In January 2009, before President Obama was even sworn in, the CBO put this very sentence in their economic report:
CBO projects that the deficit this year will total $1.2 trillion, or 8.3 percent of GDP.
Barack Obama was inaugurated on January 20th, so you can CLEARLY see that ALL OF THAT was left by non other than President George W. Bush. This is not debatable.
In January of this year, the CBO wrote:
For 2011, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projects that if current laws remain unchanged, the federal budget will show a deficit of close to $1.5 trillion, or 9.8 percent of GDP.
Now I'm no mathmetician, but 9.8% minus 8.3% equals a 1.5% increase in the deficit under President Obama, not "about half of that 1.2 trillion dollars" as you claim.
And of course, most of that is a result of cleaning up the pile of crap that none other than President George W. Bush left on the front lawn of the White House.
So in closing, you have no idea what you are talking about.
@Nashville
Of course you ignore the $800B of stimulus to as you put it "clean up the crap". But lets ignore that and concentrate on the future. What is the President's plan to reduce the deficit and hopefully the debt? Is it his debt commissions proposals? Is it the "Gang of Six"? All I heard in last weeks speach was Medicare and Medicade will be tinkered with at the edges but we can't possibly change the fundamentals. Cut defense? By what? 50% or 60%? Didn't hear that either. Raise Taxes?
Well, someone in the White House had an opportunity to revert to the Clinton tax rates and would not even have to win a vote to do so. Did he take this opportunity? No, because the big bad Republican minority were holding the unemployed hostage. So your telling me the best politician in a generation, a transformational figure, couldn't outmaneuver John Boehner and Mitch McConnell who were both in the minority at the time. Amazing how facts get in the way of a good narrative.
So where are we now? Still spend hand over fist in Afghanistan. The escalation there had nothing to do with GWB. Try cutting defense when you start bombing Libya. Nothing to do with GWB there. How about the 400B a year in tax cuts? Well we know the true motive there.
It's a nice 800B stimulus to the economy and everybody knows the best predictor of re-election is an improving economy. So IMHO the President went along with the tax cuts simply because it was the best way to ensure his re-election. Yes, 800B in more debt because of his political calculation to achieve re-election. Tell me he was putting country before self never mind party. No different than Bush trying to buy the AARP with an unfunded Medicare-D program.
He is a politician of the highest order (call out to Pastor Wright) and that is what is becoming apparent and what the voters don't like is that he was sold as something different when he's just more of the same.
Alan:
Good to see you as always. I am sorry that President Obama did not turn out to be the transformational savior that you were expecting . . . at the end of the day, he is only human.
You wrote a lot, but the truth is, you and I both know that he got everything that he could get and more than he was expected to get from our bought and paid for Congress.
And I did not forget the stimulus . . . the stimulus was needed because Republican financial policies destroyed the economy. And even with the stimulus, the deficit has increased less than 2% over what President Bush left.
I am going to put the blame where it belongs. The whole "both sides are the same" argument doesn't work with me . . . both sides are flawed . . . but one side created this mess with their flawed ideology and refusal to make any adjustments when their plans don't work. . . tax cuts solve all problems . . . and even when they don't, we'll keep pushing it anywho.
You and I both know that is ridiculous, and yet you choose to blame the President for not being able to magically influence grown men and women to do his bidding.
Whatever.
But you can't rationalize that a candidate who said he would allow the tax cuts to expire did not, and then 3 month later as president claims he won't renew them again? I was against these cuts then as now because I know this deficit is going to destroy everything including medicare, medicade and SS. I have often said that GWB was the worst president in living memory on fiscal matters but to my amazement he is now getting competition from the current administration.
C'mon, Alan, we have been down this road before.
Just because YOU thought that the President should have fought for the Bush Tax cuts to be ended in December - when the President had NO traction or cards to play - does not mean that they will NOT be ended. The President - wisely, I may add - traded his really crappy cards for new ones in this poker game. The cost was extending the Bush Tax Cuts for 2 years.
Now that the President has fresh cards to play, he has a better hand to play as well. With the rhetoric you are seeing from the President, he is giving you a tell that he has a better hand. Why else would you announce to the world that you will NOT extend the Bush Tax cuts after 2012 unless you were 1) Bluffing or 2) had a real good hand to win the game?
You can think the President is bluffing all you want, but rememebr what he did with DADT (Don't Ask Don't Tell). He COULD have left it up to the courts to enact non-enforcement; however, you see that the President got the law RESCINDED. There is no ambiguity with a law being RESCINDED, and that is exactly how the Bush Tax Cuts will end up - RESCINDED.
@Pietreo
The Bush tax cuts would be gone if he had done nothing. Now 800B further into the hole he says they'll be gone in 2012. How convenient. At that point the 800B of further borrowed stimulus will hopefully have perked the economy in time to get him re-elected. My what courage. If he really believed his own speech from last week then he would have went to the country (bully pulpit) last December and made his case for extending unemployment benefits.
Alan - it looks to me that you see what you want to see.
The President has the responsibility to protect the economy from any fiscal miscues. Adding $800 BILLION to a $14 trillion DEFICIT would not have made much of a difference for 2 years. THIS is why the President went ahead and traded his cards. If the President did what YOU wanted him to, Alan, the payoff would have NOT been worth it.
And since all of this is political anyway, what benefit would the President have gotten? What political capital would have been gained? Was it worth the stand for such LITTLE political gain?
This is why President Obama is in office, and not you.
Please tell me you are not serious. BTW It's a14T debt. If not for the tax cuts which the President says we can't afford the deficit would be 1.1T (a 25%+ reduction). A big difference in my book. It would also have indicated to the bond and capital markets that he is serious about reducing the debt.
To your second point. It's not about the President his standing or his legacy. It's about this country that is on its way to financial disaster hastening the end of the social programs you are fighting to keep. That's 400B less for SS, Medicare and Medicade or for implementing HCR.
..and IMHO it would have shown he has political courage which would have raised his standing with independents like myself.
No, Alan, tell me YOU are not serious. It took incredible political courage to trade the Tax Cuts for making sure that those out of work would have an addition 13 months of benefits, which they would NOT have gotten otherwise. What was the trade off? A little more debt for 2 years (that would have not made much of a difference anyway) so that people who are HURTING can at least have food on the table?
No, that trade off was WORTH the 2 year extension. At least the President was looking out for AMERICANS for once, despite being balackmailed by the GOPers who are only looking out for their own selves and friends.
The GOPers thought that they FINALLY got the President painted into a corner. Why else were they SO EAGER to accept the deal for the Bush Tax Cuts? Unfortunately for them, the President decided to expend a little political Capital now to reap a WHOLE LOT of political capital later. I can guarantee you that those who are getting benefits because of this action are NOT forgetting the President and what he has done to help THEIR families.
It seems that the President's bet is paying off handsomely, notwithstanding YOUR interpretation of his 'standing' with independents.
Nashville fan, Pietro and Alan, NJ.
Good to see a honest give and take about the tax cut extension deal in December. I think you already know my opinion on the matter so I will not repeat it.
In lieu of saying Nashville fan I agree with you, Alan you have a good point or Pietro that is something to consider; I wanted to use your thread as an example to opposing sides on how to present your thoughts and discuss an issue rationally.
We've had debt as long as we've had a country. We can go all the way back to George Washington, John Adams, Benjamin Franklin and all the other founding fathers if placing blame is all we're interested in. It doesn't seem to matter if we raise taxes or cut them because no matter what we've continued to increase spending and increase the scope of government regardless of income. Does anyone think this is sustainable long term? If so, please pass me some of what you're smokin'
Thanks, CherylLM. I fervantly just one left-winger stops to think for a minute rather than blindly believe what Ed and Rachel (MSNBC) have drilled in to him/her.
Anyone else catch the video on last night's news of the demonstrating (rioting, more like it) here in this country by mostly students (and probably the usual bussed-in professionals)? With their odd sense of political correctness, they certainly were prolific at screaming "God D*** America. Many of their signs were the same. If it weren't so sick it would almost be amusing. And they have the absolute nerve to refer to people who attend Tea Parties as "teabaggers." That's okay, they won't like it when they discover that the new Fed student loans aren't for everything.
Do you think his speech didn't go over well? It was insulting and partisan. Encouraging America to be resentful and jealous of the rich offends those of us who have some common sense which apparently excludes the liberals, who tend to think its a great idea. Seriously. His idea was to attack someone who had a plan which really drew attention to the fact that he HAS no plan and neither does his party. No clue.
WHY is our GOVERNMENT not doing something to stop the crooks from robbing U.S. with these high GAS prices!!!!
You are suppose to protect U.S. from these greedy bastards- Why can't you see that we have no choice but to buy GAS for our livihood and Wall Street and the oil companies are taking advantage of this - it's a MONOPOLY!!!
MONOPOLIES are ILLEGAL - it's unAMERICAN!!!!!
They will RUIN AMERICA...please get together and enforce or develope a LAW that will stop this MADNESS...before there are RIOTS in the STREETS!!!!
FOR HEAVEN SAKE!!!!
TRUTH - not CRAP
Thank you and GOD BLESS AMERICA
0bama could stop the gas hikes with one speech. All he would have to say is that we are going to drill everywhere we can drill and start using compressed natural gas (CNG) everywhere possible. We have a lot more than the 2% of the worlds supply that the left claims we have. The terrorists in the Middle East and the speculators would drop the price back down to $35 per barrel in a week if we showed that we were serious. 0bama is going to get thrown out after 1 term because of $5 gas and 0bamacare.
The greatest irony in all of these comments thus far is the insistence that the President has somehow been vilified by an unfair media. This by the same haters who attacked George W. Bush relentlessly for eight years. The level of coarse humor and hate-spewing to which the left sank (or perhaps rose?) during the Bush Era is the best indicator of their true nature - one of rigid intolerance for anyone with a differing opinion on any topic. Ah, the irony of haters pointing the finger outward...
Presidential approval ratings go up and down with gas prices. No one cares about his speech from last week. Hardly anyone heard it. However everyone has to get gas at the pump and they see the price. Same thing happened to Bush. My mom was even reacting to it since she is on fixed SS income. I told her I'm one of many who hopes it goes and stays high so we realize the need for mass transit and switch to it. Only then can we save our environment and break away from the middle east trap we are in at the moment.
My mom was not so please with my comment. I care about the budget and the debt however I realize I'm one of very few who is informed about those things because outside of this post I cannot carry a conversation without someone questioning me every other word since most don't really know what is going on in congress at the moment.
how the hell does the President have any influence on gas prices?
Uhh... he just started a war in Libya? DUH... We need to tap our home oil supply... quit importing! therefore we can increase jobs in the private sector, less government more people, not sheeple. read more about my ideas on my platform for president post #2.9 I NEED YOUR VOTE!
Donald Trump...birther, believes the oil in Iraq is ours and we should just take it, thinks economists are stupid and he knows best. (Sort of explains his bankruptcy). He wants to build an American Empire. If you look back at history, people come to the forefront claiming to be Nationalists and demanding and then forcibly taking what is theirs. It always ends in war. Empire building and Imperiallism are ancient theories with no place in our global world. Trump is a bully and a dictator and yes, he should be fired.
So vote for me... not Trump, not Obama, or any other party. Stop listening to the media, it's all biased crap! just a bunch of blow hards and morons arguing with each other. Vote Ghoster0071 2012!