Another week comes to an end.

1. The democrats bail out Mr. Boehner again in the House. 59 GOP/TP jump ship leaving Boehner without enough votes to pass the compromised budget bill. Once again the democrats put our country first and save the day by voting for the bill. It passed the Senate as well.

2. The Planned Parenthood Bill got defeated in the senate by a 58 to 42 margin with 5 GOP/TP joining the democrats. This bill was never about abortions but just another back door attack on the reproductive rights of women.

3. AZ has passed the first “Birther” bill and only needs the signature of the “Queen of Mean”. I love it. Now our President can present his proof, will be put on the Presidential Ballot and Donald Trump (and many others) will look like the A$$ES they are.

4. Governor Walker gets hammered in a Congressional Hearing and is forced to admit that destroying Collective Bargaining in WI, DID NOT save Wisconsin any money. See, we told you that Walker was not about reducing the deficit at all, he and the GOP/TP just wanted to trash the Unions, lowering their membership and hence their ability to make political contributions which typically go to democratic candidates.

5. President Obama delivers a strong speech on what his path for the economic stability of this country is in his 2012 budget. President Obama exposes the Ryan Proposal for what is really is. President Obama described this as a plan for the systematic redistribution of wealth and power from the middle class to the top 2%. Much of the so called Spending Cuts to mostly middle class and poor Social Programs are offset by huge tax cuts for the richest 2%. It is not about deficit/debt reduction and in fact increases the deficit/debt by trillions of dollars in the next decade. It is a bait and switch where wealth and money is being moved from the middle class to Wall Street, Big Business and the Millionaires and Billionaires that have bought him and his vote.

The GOP/TP is mad because President Obama called Ryan out in public as to the real agenda of his proposal. The GOP/TP really gets mad when their rhetoric and false claims are exposed for what they really are,a roadmap to “Oligarchy”.

Thank you Mr. President.

Will Trump trump Romney?

I’ve noticed that ever since “The Donald” started spouting that “birther” nonsense, his poll numbers have increased. So I have to ask, “How can it be that Trump is gaining ground among Tea Partiers?” Evidently Tea Partiers like him; he certainly is rich. Or is it more plausible that the GOP/TP really doesn’t like Romney?

The fact is that Romney cannot back down on the health care reform law that he signed when he was the Massachusetts governor. To do so would be the ultimate flip-flop. He can’t say, “I was for it, I signed it into law, and now I was wrong.” That just is not going to happen. Romney’s strategy has to be that the conservatives will split their vote between, Bachmann, Huckabee, Pawlenty, Barbour, Gingrich, and oh yes, Palin. Therefore, Mitt wins by default.

But can Trump trump Romney? I don’t think so. “The Donald” is doing well because many conservatives know that the existing stable of candidates doesn’t have a chance when running against President Obama. They are still looking for a standard bearer and when Trump sounds like a “birther” the Tea Party is giving him some thought.

The problem for the Tea Party is that they cannot control how everyday Republicans will vote. When the primaries begin, all candidates will get some votes; and in fact the conservative vote will be fractured. Just what Romney hopes will happen.

I suspect “The Donald” will not even run. He cannot stand to see himself lose…and he will lose. For Donald Trump, playing politics is just that: a game of playing politics.

Since it’s been more than a year since Nancy Whats-her-name (you don’t see her much anymore-LOL!!!) famously said about the ClunkerCare HCR “We need to pass this bill so we can find out what is in it”, I decided to check where the realclearpolitics.com polls tracking show the American people are on this issue. The average of six recent polls shows that 50.0% of the American people favor repealing ClunkerCare and 42.2% oppose repeal. That pretty much mirrors the percentages from a year ago that favored passing Clunkercare (low 40’s%) and opposed passing it (+/- 50%).

I guess the American people have found out what is in the ClunkerCare HCR and still think it is a POS.

Good morning Ron Indiana

Will Trump trump Romney?

No Ron The Donald will not run. And you have cited some excellent thoughts. The Donald is gathering rating so his Apprentice Reality show won't be dropped.

The Donald is a loser and he knows it. I maintain he show his financial records. don't worry bout the birth certificate

Since it’s been more than a year since Nancy Whats-her-name (you don’t see her much anymore-LOL!!!) famously said about the ClunkerCare HCR “We need to pass this bill so we can find out what is in it”, I decided to check where the realclearpolitics.com polls tracking show the American people are on this issue. The average of six recent polls shows that 50.0% of the American people favor repealing ClunkerCare and 42.2% oppose repeal. That pretty much mirrors the percentages from a year ago that favored passing Clunkercare (low 40’s%) and opposed passing it (+/- 50%).

I guess the American people have found out what is in the ClunkerCare HCR and still think it is a POS.

Since it's been more than a year, I did some of my own checking and found that the GOP still hasn't offered any alternative solutions.

That is the MOST informative post I have ever read in my entire life!!! I can't believe how accurate it is!!! Louis, I don't know how you mamage to post so fast every morning, but God bless you, my friend, for being first every day!!! You are truly a light that outshines them all!!!

Can you BELIEVE how stupid these people are to fall for this day after day??? It reminds me of the idiots that are swayed by simple advertising slogans like, "They're Magically Delicious", "I'm Lovin' It", or "Yes We Can"!!! People are so gullible sometimes!!! THANKS and KUDOS for pointing that out on a daily basis, my first posting friend!!!

Here's to a great Friday and an even better weekend!!! March on, my brothers and sisters!!! March on!!!

The Associated Press has recorded its lowest approval level ever for Obamacare...just 35% support President Obama's health care reform law. For the first time, support among seniors for Obamacare fell below 30%.

Louis, US Navy, Ron--great thoughful posts to end the week.

We know the GOP claim about low taxes for the rich creates jobs is simply not true. I did some checking of the numbers. Carter and Clinton created 33.5 million jobs in 12 years with higher tax rates for the wealthy. Reagan, Bush 41 and Bush 43 created 21.5 million jobs in 20 years with their much lower tax rates for the wealthy. Facts are facts.

Good Morning Bev!

Did you catch a glimpse of the President last night!

He's even better looking in person! ;o)

I was in full SWOON form, don't tell the idiot from the east coast...

Daps Chris. Just representing the cause my friend.

Yawn........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Healthcare reform is the LAW of the LAND. Live with it !!

BTW.. How many of the GOPTP congressmen have turned down their Government Backed Healthcare ??

Jody:

How true. The facts are the facts but they continue to believe tax cuts for the rich create jobs. If so where are they since we have been in one of the lowest tax rates in 50 years and still the job market is soft at best. The last 10 years proves this ideology does not work.

Just representing the cause my friend.

You better hide the chocolates my friend, they appear to be starving this morning! ;o)

da noid - Since it's been more than a year, I did some of my own checking and found that the GOP still hasn't offered any alternative solutions.

The GOP needs an alternate solution to destroying both the economy and the health care system?

TGIF Good Morning All

Try me!!!

I love the way our President dares and pokes fun at the Republi/clown T-baggers. He asked them to make an up or down vote so he could veto it.

President Obama earlier Wednesday issued a threat to veto the measure.

That's gonna be fun to watch.

Obama: Fundraising in Chicago

President Barack Obama Descends.

Images 17 , 19, and 20 of 22

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-110414-obama-navy-pier-fundraiser-pictures,0,619014.photogallery

President Obama doesn't know who to bow to. So the President said...

And then I have to admit that I got a little confused. (Laughter.) I walk in and there are these two guys talking, both of them very animated, both of them a little intimidating, even though they’re not tall in statute. (Laughter.) I was trying to figure out who I should bow to first. I decided to go with the current mayor -- (laughter and applause) -- somebody who has done more to make Chicago not just a great American city but a great world city, and his legacy is going to be deep and lasting, as deep and lasting as his father’s was. We are grateful for his service -- the mayor of the city of Chicago, Richard Daley. (Applause.)

Read more: http://thepage.time.com/2011/03/18/home-court-advantage/#ixzz1JbAYKKZD

Sweet home Chicago, my kinda town is a great city that works. So does Glenn Beck

“I really believe Chicago is the nicest city in America,” a grinning Glenn Beck said from the stage of the town’s namesake theater[Chicago Theater on State Street, that Great Street] Thursday night. But then he blew it by saying-- “Now if we could just rid of all the commies and progressives, we’d be set.”

http://leisureblogs.chicagotribune.com/the_theater_loop/2011/04/glenn-beck-chicago-theatre-review.html

PRIMARY President Obama?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-04-14/budget-showdown-democrats-disgust-with-obama/?cid=hp:mainpromo2

That’s riduclous. If you must primary the weak kneed Congressional democrats. You didn’t support him when we had the both houses.

DO NOT let the haters on the right the and whiny, whiny left steal what we have. It would set America back nearly a century.

Trust me.

I did some of my own checking and found that the GOP still hasn't offered any alternative solutions.

_________________________________________________________________

How does that change the FACT that the American people think ClunkerCare is a POS??

I once heard a CEO in a meeting where they had just knowingly made a bad decision on a big issue state "In the long run, this decision will come back to haunt us big time, but, in the short run it allows us to move forward." That just about sums up ClunkerCare in one sentence.

Oh, yes, it has been quite the week.

Obama tells us he thinks it would be easier to be president of China- you have to hand it to the Grey Lady; they report it in the last two sentences in the last paragraph of a much longer article

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/11/world/africa/11policy.html

And most of the rest of the media ignores it. You can, however, tell that the DNC is a teensy bit worried about it- they sent out the talking point that their operatives MUST defend free speech- which would, I suppose, lead readers to believe that there was a GOP attack on same.

I have to wonder if ANY of you "professional journalists" ever feel the slightest twinge of conscience about trading in your professional ethics to be paid propagandists for the Obama administration. I can see that you are worried about perception- we have had two corrections of the misapprehension that you on this board are not professional journalists, (one in a comment to the poster who lectured that she had been told you were not; one entire "Inside the Boiler Room" dedicated to the topic), but that is not the same thing.

The question is, do you never consider the disservice you are doing to the electorate by attempting to pass off an innocent question about whether or not someone played sports as a racist question, while ignoring or burying Obama's ridiculous or idiotic statements- especially when those statements betray the "real" Obama?

Here is a for instance: Obama started his campaign for re election mo this before any other sitting president. It is unseemly, at the least, that he will be spending most of his time, for TWO YEARS, campaigning. Try to imagine what you would say about a republican president who did the same.

On the other hand, Obama spent most of the fall campaigning- and saw his approval rating plummet. It has been five months since the electorate demonstrated what they though of his campaign skills- I am pretty sure the same thing will happen again.

Let's see if he can break into the thirties in the next few months. I am pretty sure that "yes, he can".

Healthcare reform is the LAW of the LAND. Live with it !!

____________________________________________

At one time slavery was the LAW of the LAND. Sounds like you are recommending we should have "lived with it !!" ??

The U.S. Supreme Court could decide as soon as this month on whether to act on a request by the state of Virginia to fast-track a decision on the constitutionality of Obamacare...the Obama Justice Department is opposed to a rapid resolution of the issue.

If the Supreme Court disagrees with the Obama Administration, there could be a decision on Obamacare's fate sometime this summer.

The sooner, the better, eh First Readers?

Since any final plan to address the nation's debt crisis hinges on how health care will be paid for going forward?

President Obama, courtesy of BWD's blog:

“When Paul Ryan says his priority is to make sure, he’s just being America’s accountant … This is the same guy that voted for two wars that were unpaid for, voted for the Bush tax cuts that were unpaid for, voted for the prescription drug bill that cost as much as my health care bill — but wasn’t paid for,” Mr. Obama told his supporters. “So it’s not on the level.”

___________________________________

The Civil War

150 years later and we’re collectively less honest with ourselves about our greatest American tragedy than we were as it happened. The greatest attack on this nation, on its freedoms, on its independence – the greatest act of terrorism against the United States of America, the greatest act of treason, our nation at its worst — and four out of ten Americans are willing to lie about its cause. Keith O.

____________________________________

April is a fascinating month on so many levels. We have the start of the Revolutionary War in April; the Civil War began and ended in April; WW2 was winding down in April. We saw the deaths of Lincoln and FDR in April.

Last night over @ Keith's blog, he did a video talking about the reasons for the Civil War. There is much revisionist history going on as we all know, but as his video clearly demonstrates, the Civil War was started because of one issue: slavery. Period.

He received tons and tons of responses and it was interesting reading everyone's opinion. A great deal of thought went into everyone's posts and the people were super friendly. I didn't log off until 3AM this morning, as we spent the evening exchanging posts on the Civil which then carried over to recommendations on books to read. A very interesting night.

As far as the Civil War, we must be remember why John Wilkes Booth shot Abraham Lincoln.

Today is the beginning of our long Patriots Day weekend, a time when we honor the Battle of Lexington & Concord and the beginning of the War for Independence. A long, very painful, difficult war. April 1775 was just the beginning. Sam Adams, John Hancock, Paul Revere.

As Ben Franklin said, we must indeed all hang together, or assuredly we will hang separately.

_________________________________________________

"The times that tried men's souls are over-and the greatest and completest revolution the world ever knew, gloriously and happily accomplished." - Thomas Paine, The American Crisis, No. 13, 1783

'Tis Done. We are A Nation. Benjamin Rush.

Sweet home Chicago, my kinda town is a great city that works; I think. So does Glenn Beck.

"I really believe Chicago is the nicest city in America," a grinning Glenn Beck said from the stage of the town's namesake theater[Chicago Theater on State Street, that Great Street] Thursday night. But then he blew it by saying-- "Now if we could just rid of all the commies and progressives, we'd be set."

http://leisureblogs.chicagotribune.com/the_theater_loop/2011/04/glenn-beck-chicago-theatre-review.html

PRIMARY President Obama?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-04-14/budget-showdown-democrats-disgust-with-obama/?cid=hp:mainpromo2

That's riduclous. If you must primary, primay the weak kneed Congressional democrats. They didn't support President Obama when we had both houses.

DO NOT let the haters on the right and the whiny, whiny ones on the left who want instant gratification every second; yet, fail to build on the President's accomplishments steal what we have.

It would set America back nearly a century.

Trust me!!!

Jody and US Navy,

Are you guys really so simple as to think that tax rate is the determining factor in job creation?

Interest rates, business certainty, the value of the dollar, debt, consumer confidence, demand .... all of these factors have nothing to with job creation?

Do you seriously not understand that the economic crash, all those lost jobs, had nothing to do with the tax rate? Do you not realize the crash was a credit issue, not a revenue issue?

Why are liberals so simple?

Mixed Bag

The Associated Press has recorded its lowest approval level ever for Obamacare...just 35% support President Obama's health care reform law. For the first time, support among seniors for Obamacare fell below 30%.

Of course seniors don't like it... it does not benefit them, if anything - it takes a little bit away from their entitlement to serve the greater need (more of the populations covered). But like most segment of the population, if it doesn't benefit them and only them - then F it. At the same time, they drag around oxygen tanks clinging to their medicare cards... and talk about how bad government health care would be.

We have to be our brother's keeper. That's what made America great and we can not drag it back into the dark ages, as a result of archaic thinking.

By the way, polls, schmolls, it never really means anything anyways. If you poll certain American population about cutting entitlements... they'll 98% of them will say Heck Yeah.. and be furious that government is not cutting more... then you ask the same group of folks about cutting either medicare, SS, Medicaid/defence.... they start to talk about their 2nd Amendment remedies and furiously proclaim: "Don't tread on me"

The GOP/TP cried 'Repeal and Replace' for months.....accomplished neither one!

The GOP/TP cried 'Where are the jobs' for months........nothing done!

The GOP/TP cried 'We don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem'.......got duped into thinking the 38 Billion really was Billions.......we all know how that ended!

It appears that the TeaBaggers are long on talking points but short on actual policy!

Aren't tax rates relative to job creation a REPUBLICAN talking point!??

Chris, Cranbury, NJ.

Can you BELIEVE how stupid these people are to fall for this day after day??? It reminds me of the idiots that are swayed by simple advertising slogans like, "They're Magically Delicious", "I'm Lovin' It", or "Yes We Can"!!! People are so gullible sometimes!!! THANKS and KUDOS for pointing that out on a daily basis, my first posting friend!!!

Would you believe I just chocked on my breakfast? Chris, that was Laugh Out Loud funny.

Here's to a great Friday and an even better weekend!!! March on, my brothers and sisters!!! March on!!!

Will do Chris and you enjoy your weekend too.

Here is some other stuff that happened this week:

Weekly jobless claims jumped by 27,000- quite unexpectedly, in fact.

Don't worry, Obama fans. The administration has a policy to deal with that- the ever expanding "out of the labor force" pool. As a matter of fact, there are now the fewest workers, as a percentage of the population, since 1983.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2011-04-13-more-americans-leave-labor-force.htm?loc=interstitialskip

I actually heard an aide to Austin Goolsbee describe this policy as follows: giving people 99 weeks of unemployment I tially raises the unemployment rate, as these people must actively seek employment or be dropped from benefits. When those benefits run out, however, these same people can be dropped from the unemployed pool, as they have been out of work for more than a. Year- therefore, they are "marginally attached" to the labor force, and get put into the discouraged worker pool. This drops the unemployment number, as only those both actively seeking work and unemployed for less than twelve months are calculated into that number.

The benefits, by the way, have started running out- have you heard Obama thumping the podium to extend them recently? Nope. The strategy to manipulate the data is working brilliantly- unemployment will drop to about 8% before November 2012.

Now, if only they could manipulate inflation in such a way that people did not realize the prices they are paying for luxury goods- like food and gas.

And, if only so many people did not know so many other people who are still not working.

Bev,

Here's to a great Friday and an even better weekend!!! March on, my brothers and sisters!!! March on!!!

Will do Chris and you enjoy your weekend too

(You forgot to thank Chris for telling you what day it is.)

How does that change the FACT that the American people think ClunkerCare is a POS??

My father taught me when I was growing up that complaining does nothing. You need to offer alternatives.

All ends of the political spectrum share the same concern...health care costs are out of control. So, how do you fix it? Democrats have given us the Health Care Reform package. What have the Republicans given us besides complaints about HCR? I've not seen anything other than general head scratching and shrugging of shoulders.

You don't like HCR? Fine...what is the alternative?

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Good Morning Bev!

Did you catch a glimpse of the President last night!

I thought the event was a tonight. I could get my self.

He's even better looking in person! ;o)

Yes, I know I met him when I volunteered for him when he ran for Senator.

I was in full SWOON form, don't tell the idiot from the east coast...

I'm still in full swoon. Don't forget we got the campaign headquarters. There'll be plenty of time.

Uhh, Bob numbers, that's my point--republicans spout almost daily that lower taxes for the rich creates jobs; my comment proved it to be wrong; just this week, the GOP claimed raising taxes on the rich is "job killing". Why are conservatives so unable to distinguish what is written without taking the comment somewhere that it didn't go?

HAHA, Feisty, I just noticed that... Reece's Feces... that was a fun posting day.

Much of the Republican proposal only benefits the entitled and not the entitled. Everyone is entitled to find rest and comfort on our shores as this is what is represented in what the United States of America is charged.

Matthew 11:28 "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

Statue of Liberty "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

This is what we are. Believe it or not.

President Obama said so himself, "now is our time..." we need to represent this tenet of life.

bob-1805084

Jody and US Navy,

Are you guys really so simple as to think that tax rate is the determining factor in job creation?

Interest rates, business certainty, the value of the dollar, debt, consumer confidence, demand .... all of these factors have nothing to with job creation?

Do you seriously not understand that the economic crash, all those lost jobs, had nothing to do with the tax rate? Do you not realize the crash was a credit issue, not a revenue issue?

Why are liberals so simple?

I bet you that republicans have been making their case tax rates the determining factor in job creation, afterall, per the republican mantra - if you tax less, there will be more jobs... there will be increased tax revenues and everything will be fine and dandy... .this is absolutely what I've heard from my GOP friends this past year (including you)... so yes, republicans are that much "simple minded".... if you then tell them about the complexities, they say you are trying to confuse them.

If you want to break it down to the bear bone.... job creation is primarily about supply and demand... taxes, dollar, confidence.... play into it to make the overall picture of demand. But with regards to taxes.... we have ample evidence that it does not spur economic growth n or increase tax revenues nor make the deficits better; if we've learnt anything from Bush's or Reagan's administration, it's that it does the opposite.... yet we see republican's stilll parroting same lines because it make sense in their simple heads i.e. if you reduce taxes, companies would have more to invest, and then economy would be better - very simple right? BUT IT DOESN'T WORK...in the engineering world we use empirical data rather ideological theory. Empiral is golden; and in this case of taxation, I submit that we should follow the same - it works.

The U.S. Supreme Court could decide as soon as this month on whether to act on a request by the state of Virginia to fast-track a decision on the constitutionality of Obamacare...the Obama Justice Department is opposed to a rapid resolution of the issue.

_______________________________________________________

It makes you wonder what the Barry admin is afraid of. Gee, could it be that they know they passed an unconstitutional law and fear getting called out on it?? Especially before the 2012 election. And extra especially with a so-called constitutional law professor as President.

As they say, payback's a bitch.

Tax Cuts for the richest 2% creates jobs is what the GOP/TP is trying to push on the American People, NOT the democrats. It just does not work. For the last 10 years we have had the lowest tax rates in about 50 years and they did not work in creating substantial jobs nor did they stimulate the economy to any great extent. Those claiming it does are lying again.

Show us the proof that leading economist agree that Tax Cuts for the Richest 2% have in fact created substantial jobs or stimulated the economy to any great extent. THEY DID NOT.

Liar Liar pants on fire.

Tunde Akins-

Having once worked as an interviewer for one of the largest polling outfits in the country, I have to disagree with your assessment of what polling data means.

A review of the polling in the election cycle last November reveals that all of the major polling firms correctly predicted a wave election, and their accuracy in predicting individual races was, as usual, impressive.

That said...polling on Obamacare has been remarkably consistent.

Other than the odd outlier poll, pluralities or outright majorities of the public continue to oppose the law.

In any event, a ruling on its constitutionality, one way or the other, would be helpful in the crafting of legislation to seriously address the debt crisis, wouldn't it?

Pat,

If slavery were the MAIN issue of the Civil War, why then did it take so long for Lincoln to announce the Emancipation Proclamation?

If Lincoln thought that freeing slaves was more important than preserving the Union, why didn't he just let them leave and form their own country? I mean the North would have made tons of money--they had most of the industry--the south was more agricultural?

I am not saying that slavery wasn't part of the causes, I just don't think that Lincoln thought it was the main cause.

CONSUMER DEMAND CREATES JOBS.

The rich are rich because they hoard their wealth, the one who dies with the most bucks wins.

If you believe that a company will hire people and produce more products than they know they can sell then you need to get an education.

Neither will a company layoff people and produce less product than they can sell because they will have to pay more taxes!

The rich do not create jobs... Consumers do... Right now 75% of America is hurting and not buying.

Good morning from the Heartland, everyone ... and here is the news from Wisconsin.

Yesterday, Judge Sumi issued a ruling allowing one of the lawsuits to proceed on the collective bargaining bill, which will further delay its implementation.

The State Accountability Board, which is non-partisan, and made up of retired judges, is investigating election practices in Waukesha County going back at least five years. This includes the election that made J.B. Van Hollen the current (republican) Attorney General, where the same clerk that mucked up the Supreme Court election results this year reported more votes in that portion of the election -- by some -- than total votes cast. http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/elections/article_46644a68-6704-11e0-907e-001cc4c03286.html

As reported here yesterday, investigation has revealed that the Koch brothers would benefit greatly from newly introduced measures to strip regulations designed to prevent phosphorus pollution of Wisconsin waterways. http://host.madison.com/ct/business/biz_beat/article_9dc0fb94-66aa-11e0-9815-001cc4c002e0.html?sourcetrack=moreArticle

And as I reported the other day and was reported here yesterday, one of Walker's cronies has pleaded guilty to, and agreed to pay a big fine for, two felony counts of illegal campaign contributions, involving asking his employees to make contributions and then reimbursing them, and reimbursing himself out of corporate funds. Turns out, as I heard last night, this is not the first time, so his whine that he didn't know he was doing wrong sort of rings hollow. http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_d2f5df16-644b-11e0-8834-001cc4c03286.html?sourcetrack=moreArticle

And, of course, when confronted yesterday at the Issa hearing about his apparent agreement to take a favor from David Koch during that prank phone call, Walker claimed that he was just trying to get Koch off the phone because he had other calls waiting. If you will recall, however, this came at a time when Walker was taking NO phone calls from anyone, including state legislators, but was so anxious to take a call from one of his corporate paymasters that he didn't even vet it properly first.

If you want to see how Wisconsin protests, you may want to check out the alternative "brat fest" that is being planned because the current brat fest event is sponsored by Walker contributors. http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_bd1bd96a-655a-11e0-9c71-001cc4c002e0.html -- in this state, we're even principled about our bratwurst.

And that's the way it is here in the Heartland today.

"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." ~ John Quincy Adams

I'm not quite sure why Ryan got so upset about Obama's budget proposal? It is up to the President to propose the budget to congress, not the other way around.

Now who was aying yesterday that I write too much about the blacks? Who puts the first post on here every day calling people who don't like Obama "racists?"

Since this comment relates to the 50% of Republicans who are Birthers and the 20%+ who believe they could be convinced, this relates to them.

Was John McCain asked for his birth certificate?

Was George W Bush asked for his birth certificate? How about Dick Cheney?

Was George HW Bush asked for his birth certificate? Did Dan Quayle prove he was born in the USA?

Was Ronald Reagan asked for his birth certificate?

Was Richard Nixon asked for his birth certificate?

Just to be sure this isn't a Republican Democrat thing;

Was Bill Clinton asked for his birth certificate? Al Gore? How about Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, Lyndon Johnson, Hubert Humphrey, or John F Kennedy?

Was the birthplace of ANY other primary candidate for EITHER party questioned?

Nope. Just the first African American to be elected to the highest office in the land. Only President Barack Obama.

Weird that it looks racist, isn't it?

The rich do not create jobs... Consumers do... Right now 75% of America is hurting and not buying.

tired-of-it, you said it so well I thought it deserved repeating. Nicely done.

Obama "explaining" his prior vote against raising the debt ceiling:

" so that was just a example of a new senator you know, making what is a political vote as opposed to doing what was important for the country."

As president he went on to realize that he can have an entire political agenda instead of doing what is right for the country.

@ Big Bear ~

I trust you saw my response last evening to your post about what union "bosses" get paid. If you haven't, you should check it out. As I observed there, with my own set of facts and figures about what Wisconsin's business union bosses get paid -- which is a heck of a lot more than the union leaders do, and for which you also pay, either through dues or through the goods and services that you purchase -- I am not impressed with your numbers or analysis in the slightest.

And just because one person said that public employees should not expect to get rich doesn't mean everyone else has to agree with that -- nor does it mean that public workers should not expect to make a decent living.

If public workers should do it because they love their country, then the public -- including you, Big Bear -- should honor and respect that sacrifice, instead of going out of your way, time after time, to demean them.

If only for that hypocrisy, you and your mean-spirited conservative friends should be ashamed of yourselves.

"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." ~ John Quincy Adams

John B,

I imagine that most of those folks that you listed, had their birth certificates out in public, or people could just go look it up at the county courthouse.

Not that I am a "birther", but what is wrong in asking for a birth certificate? We know that John McCain was not born in a US State, but rather a small military base in the Panama Canal Zone. I would think that any and all people running for President would be proud of their birthplace, just as I am.

To-Le-Do, Ohio--the place where Klinger was born, the home of Tony Packo's, home of the signed hot dog bun. But better yet, the home of the bestest minor league baseball team ever--the Mudhens. If you need to, head on down to the county courthouse & check out my birth certificate--got nothing to hide--at least that is what I was told:)

You don't like HCR? Fine...what is the alternative?

________________________________________________

Let's start with the doctor's promise: First, do no harm.

Next, that is really a problem and I'm pretty convinced health care finances in the USA are FUBAR. The European/Canadian model works for them, but, in America, I don't think the entitlement mentality would ever put up with the sacrafices necessary to get costs under control. Drs are not going to take pay cuts to European/Canadian levels, patients are not going to accept long waiting lists for non-emergency surgeries, or being told that the govt has not approved the treatment they want. Just like the deficit/debt problem, I believe this country will not act until/unless the current FUBAR system collapses under its own obese weight.

Judge Joe:

Drs are not going to take pay cuts to European/Canadian levels,

Why the heck not? If public workers are being asked to sacrifice because health care costs are out of control, then isn't that the least the doctors can do? They make, on average, a heck of a lot more than public employees.

Besides, if you examine why those systems work and are cheaper, it's because they cut the bureaucracy -- and the middleman (i.e., insurance company) -- profit. Some of them run at administrative costs of less than 5 percent, while in this country, insurance companies whine because they're asked to keep costs below 20 percent. See the problem, Joe?

Like teachers and firefighters and the police, doctors, who do a real service for society, deserve to get paid a decent living.

Insurance company executives, who are nothing more than parasites to the system, not so much.

Well said John B. You don't have to use the "N" word or some other overt action to be a racist.

This "birther" nonsense is racism, pure and simple. We should call it that. No "white" candidate has ever had to face these types of accusations and distractions.

Anyone spouting this nonsense should be charged with a hate crime.

The people of Arizona should hang their heads in shame at the actions of their legislature.

Shame because they are giving credence do this absurd and racist campaign.

If they don't recall the authors of the bill and the Governor who signs it into law then they are just as much to blame as the ignorant racists who sponsored and voted for it.

And back on the main topic, the headline of today's FR is basically "votes to kill medicare will have consequences."

I sincerely hope so. I hope birther nonsense votes will have the same consequences. Maybe if enough people have had enough of all this right wing nonsense we can send a few of them back to the private lives and restore some semblance of sanity to our government.

Right now the inmates of the asylum are obviously in control and there isn't a meds cart in sight.

I would think that any and all people running for President would be proud of their birthplace, just as I am.

And there you go again, BigBear -- just continuing to repeat the lies, over and over again.

President Obama's birth certificate is available on line. It is a "certificate of live birth," just as mine happens to be. I was born in Wisconsin. Have you ever even looked at your own birth certificate? Do you even know what it says? Should we ask you to show it before you're allowed to comment here?

President Obama has never denied being proud of being born in Hawaii. Why should he?

Everything else is merely unfounded insinuation, which is exactly as you meant it. And again, you should be ashamed of yourself for stooping so low as to perpetrate this ignorant, malicious nonsense.

@ jollyoldsoul ~ And what did YOU contribute to the discourse today other than your usual hate and derision?

"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." ~ John Quincy Adams

Anna Molly,

And just because one person said that public employees should not expect to get rich doesn't mean everyone else has to agree with that -- nor does it mean that public workers should not expect to make a decent living.

So Anna, you believe that public employees should expect to get rich off the taxpayers of their state?

I mean public employees in Wisconsin, with benefits make an average of $71,000 or $45,599 before benefits, per year--heck that is pretty good considering the average (according to Labor department) is $43,460.

I have yet to demean public employees--I am demeaning those they pay to represent them. Those that whine about the "rich", yet are rich themselves. Why don't we get their tax returns & see if they are paying their "fair" share of taxes--or are they using every deduction they can find, like the so called "rich".

When all of you "tax the rich" people can look yourself in the mirror and say that you did not take any deductions, use any loopholes, or just pay in, without asking for money back--then talk about taxing more. But you and I know, we all take every deduction, find every loophole, and hide as much money as we can from the government. And if you say you don't-- I will use a line from Navy--Liar, Liar. Pants on Fire:)

Judge Joe:

Drs are not going to take pay cuts to European/Canadian levels,

Why the heck not? If public workers are being asked to sacrifice because health care costs are out of control, then isn't that the least the doctors can do? They make, on average, a heck of a lot more than public employees.

Besides, if you examine why those systems work and are cheaper, it's because they cut the bureaucracy --

__________________________________________________

AM: the next time you are in your PCP's exam room tell him/her you think he/she deserves only a VA doctor level paycheck and then get back to me with the response. The reason the European/Canadian systems work is that, back in the WW II era they never let the genie out of the bottle, and their citizens are satisfied with what they have because that's all they have ever known. Where America screwed up was with the wage controls imposed by FDR during WW II. Since the unions couldn't get wage increases, they went for new benefits, the biggest one being health insurance, which virtually no one had at the time. When Drs and hospitals realized that the patient had no skin in the game on costs, they just started jacking up prices and they are still doing it.

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired

The GOP/TP is mad because President Obama called Ryan out in public as to the real agenda of his proposal. The GOP/TP really gets mad when their rhetoric and false claims are exposed for what they really are,a roadmap to "Oligarchy".

I'm mad the republi-clown/t-baggers are fawning all over Paul Ryan as if he has done something fabulous.

Thank you Mr. President.

Yes. Mr. President I too thank you pointing out this little snot's intentions to rob vulnerable people of their hard worked earnings and the poor just to give to the rich Koch brother lobbyist.

Anna Molly:

Well stated as always.

jollyoldsoul is one pathetic tea partier. He has never posted a fact. Just nonsense and opinions coming from Fox news. Coming on FR is his way of filling an empty day.

BigBear - President Lincoln wrote the Emancipation Proclamation a LONG time before he published it, then held it close until a sembalnce of a Union victory lent it more credibility. He hesitated for some time because he was especially concerned about the "border states," especially Kentucky and Maryland. In fact, when a Union general in the West summarily declared all slaves free in that state, Lincoln canned the guy for exceeding his authority - and threatening the delicate political balance the President was trying to sustain.

Lincoln had no doubts about the abomination of slavery, nor that slavery was a leading cause of the war. His "house divided" speech made that clear.

Before his election as President, Lincoln did in fact consider some of the points you raised, including either returning the slaves to Africa, a cause President Monroe championed years before ("Monroeville," Liberia, was created by slaves Monroe helped transport). He thought about a somewhat gradual process of emancipation, and a system of relieving Southerners of their "property" with reimbursements. He rejected these ideas.

They would not have been acceptable to the South, anyhow. Slavery, that "peculiar institution," was an ingrained element of their "culture" that the South firmly intended to sustain. In March, 1861, Confederate Vice President Thaddeus Stevens, looking ahead to an inevitable war, gave a speech in Savannah, Georgia, in which he baldly stated the cause of friction was "African slavery." (Source: Matthew Brady's Illustrated History of the Civil War, text by Benson J. Lossing, 1911, 1996 reprint by Portland House, p. 90.)

"The War of Southern Aggression" was planned long before the Confederacy was created. The same book cited above gives a detailed treatment of how Southern provocateurs actually manipulated the Republican and Democratic nominating conventions of 1860 to produce a "sectional Prsident" they knew would be unacceptable to many Sooutherners. Those consirators also planned a pre-emptive strike against Washington, D.C. as a coup d'etat in which Buchanan would be offered a provisional Presidency "if he will do as we say; otherwise, we'll find one who will." This was blatant treason.

The South fired the "first" shots of the war on January 9, 1861, but at that time actual warfare did not follow. The opening of combat in Charleston Harbor, April 12, 1861, began with Southern aggression.

Preservation of the Union was indeed a leading rallying cry for recruitment and developing popular support early in the war. But abolotion was an even more fervent motivation in some places. John Brown's Body by then had swept the nation in popularity, and lent its melody the the Union's war song, The Battle Hymn of the Republic.

Southern apologists try to make a different case, just as the Texas school board thinks it should rewrite history to favor its skewed view of the world. They are wrong.

Liar Liar pants on fire.

Well alrighty. Now that we have established the level of intelligence we are dealing with, lets dumb it down a bit.

Consider the health of the economy / job creation the same as your personal health.

Smoking cigarettes is bad for you - all the liberals say so, right. Leads to heart disease, lung cancer, etc. If you quit smoking, your health will improve. But if your diet is ribs, beer, Big Macs, Jack Daniels and the only exercise you get is twisting the throttle on a 1000cc Yamaha R-1 with your right wrist, your heath is very much in jeopardy - regardless if you quit smoking cigarettes. Smoking cigarettes nevertheless is still harmful.

Raising tax rates is like smoking, eating ribs is like adding another burden like HCR, beer is like killing the energy industry, Big Macs are like all new the regulations for business, Jack Daniels and riding a sport bike at 100 MPH on the back wheel in traffic is like Obama's deficit spending (It is only a matter of time before slam into the back of a truck, or go off a bridge.)

Bush inherited a small recession with the .com bust. He put in a temporary tax cut that did little (temporary cuts have temporary benefit). In 2003 he put in the tax cuts and almost 8 million new jobs were created before the crash. The job growth should have been much better, but messed up the value of the dollar. Liberal growth planning in areas like California combined with government incentivised home ownership and messing with the lending markets caused the ole R-1 to flip.

Bottom line. When you are on a ventilator - it is not a good time to start smoking again!

Sorry if this went over your heads.

Louis, louis, louis - you and bev must have gone to the same school! How do you come up with these conclusions...

Long term solutions v. short term fixes is what is debated. The Republicans want to band aid everything just long enough to direct attention away from taxes. We don't have the time to waste on this. We need action for the long term solutions.

Ryan presented a 70 + page written plan with CBO analysis for a 10 year + deficit reduction. Obama gave us a ~40 minute campaign speech for a 12 year plan with no specifics that the CBO could even hope to make an estimate from. If one wants to say 10 years is short term vs 12 years (long term) the math says 10 is less than 12. Common sense says, huh??

Ryan came up with a written plan and obama came up with a campaign speech. Your reasoning makes a written plan addressing both entitlement reform, military cuts, income tax reform and discretionary budget cuts a band aid type approach?

What was obamas speech, other than saying the rights plan was unacceptable.

Part of what I took from obamas campaign speech is that he wanted to preserve the status quo,

Continue on with his $500 billion cut in medicare (bet seniors are happy about that)

Create another taxpayer funded bureaucracy ( with no oversite) to make sure his plan (of no numbers) is on course.

DOUBLE TAX small business and the so called rich with eliminating deductions AND raiseing income taxes.

Then obama wants to cap medical expenses to fix medicaid/medicare costs. wasn't wage/price freezes tried in in the 70's and shown to fail?

Really louis, et al FR libs You go along with da obama for giving the republicans until the end of june to have a plan that obama likes?

Obama had 3 1/2 months to develope his own written recommendations based on his own debt commision for addressing our debt, but he will give the opposition 2 1/2 months?

Good thing ryan presented a written plan instead of the smoke and mirror speech that obama presented.

Obama and company only wants to preserve the past, give lip service to economic growth and tell foreign sovereign nations that their leaders must go and democracy must take place. And I have the tomahawk missles and air power to make you, just let me pass this off to NATO first while I flit to the next campaign stop.

If that is your and obamas plan for America progressing forward, good luck in 2012. Based on that philosophy, even a trump/palin ticket <shudder> would give obama reason for concern.

bob-1805084

Bev,

(You forgot to thank Chris for telling you what day it is.)

That is not true. I know what today is. Today is the day we expose Republic-clown/ T- baggers and Paul Ryan's Oh oh oh oh ohhhhh not so Wonderful budget plan!!!

@ Navy and Jodi in IA.

Tax cuts to the rich can work if:

1. The cuts are given to manufacturing companies that leave the money in the business, used to purchase raw materials, hire people increase wages.

When tax cuts to the rich don't work.

1. Personal wages that are taxed at a reduced rate do not lead to job creation or trickle down economics. I support raising taxes on money taken home in the form of salary and bonus, but not earnings if it is left in the company and left to create macro economic wealth.
2. Tax cuts to companies that don't create wealth ( companies creating wealth are often found in Manufacturing, Agriculture, or Mining of raw materials). Examples of companies that do not create wealth include the large brokerage companies that made $800M, and paid their people $790 of it in salary and bonus. There is not any reinvesting in the company, because there is nothing to reinvest into.

And one glaring issue with citing job creation vs. taxation data that compares Bush/Clinton to Bush, is Free Trade. Bush 1 and Clinton started the ball rolling, and it takes 5 years to move a factory to Mexico or overseas. Therefore, the negative economic results from Free Trade need to be in the equation. Meaning, the taxation data vs. job creation is flawed, or perhaps even irrelevant. And it won't reverse the negative effects of Free Trade until you deal with Free Trade (a good source of revenue to tax).

Lastly, we have to, as a country find a way to tax our corporations. The people and small business cannot support this economic superpower. Until companies like GE start paying tax on their 15B in income (and quit receiving a 3B tax write off when they don't pay tax), I really don't want people asking me personally to pitch in more.

Pat,

You are correct, Lincoln needed to have a solid victory prior to the Emancipation, just as our current President needed another plan, prior to presenting his own "deficit reduction" plan. It is all timing.

But as for the first shots fired in the civil war--folks in Florida will argue that point.

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110413/ap_on_re_us/us_civil_war_first_shot

Had to type the link, so you might have to copy & paste.

Although I have studied the Civil War in depth, I study more about the actual battles, the formations, the thinking process behind them. Like, what makes Pickett think he could take Cemetery Ridge? I have a more Patton approach to wars, read about the battles, find their mistakes, try not to make them again. Like Hitler--should have read up on Napoleon invading Russia.

Hope things go well at Lexington & Concord this week--saw the woman of my dreams there 15 years ago--6'1"--Long Brunette hair--Body to die for--riding a Harley. Won't ever forget that trip. Didn't like Salem much though.

John B- you would only have a point if only African Americans were required to post a birth certificate to appear on the ballot in Arizona.

That said, this is directed at Obama- but only because David Axelrod ignited this mess because he saw it as a golden opportunity to delegitimize Obama's opposition.

Too bad that weapon will now be thwarted in his hands.

Don't believe me? Ask yourself this question: why is it that every time the birthed baloney dies down, we get some poll from a democratic polling firm, ( I am referencing PPP Polling here), that reputed to show that all these republicans are birthers?

Even more telling is the position taken by newly elected Governor Abercrombie of Hawaii. While running, he campaigned on the position that he, if elected, would personally release the long form birth certificate. You trying to mKe me believe that this Democrat did not know that the law in Hawaii precludes him from doing just that? Cause, let me tell you, I am not buying it.

It was done to give new life to the birthed movement- and further delegitimize those who oppose Obama.

Kind of like acting as if wanting Obama to be a one term president is a capital offense.

My point is that being forced to present the long form- which DORS exist, and shows, clearly, that Obama was born in Hawaii, as everyone with an ounce of common sense knows- takes that particular arrow out of Axelrod's quiver.

I suspect you know that as well as I do.

Big Bear:

And if you say you don't-- I will use a line from Navy--Liar, Liar. Pants on Fire:)

How DARE you?

Talk about transference. Just because you're admitting that you're a tax cheat doesn't mean everyone is.

I don't mind paying my fair share, and you shouldn't either. And I pay it even though I don't like everything that government does. I don't sit here and constantly whine that I should not have to pay for certain government programs I don't like, like oil company subsidies or subsidies for the Chamber of Commerce.

And before you bring that stuff up again about the people who represent unions, just remember that those people are ELECTED to represent unions -- by their members, who have a right to choose their own leaders and pay them what they want to pay them -- and NOT by you, BigBear. You have NO RIGHT to tell public workers who they can have for their union leaders and what they can pay them. That's totally up to THEM to decide. The dues that are paid to the unions come from after-tax dollars and ARE NOT YOUR MONEY anymore.

If public workers don't like their unions, all they have to do is to vote to de-certify them. Having been through votes to disaffiliate with one state and national organization, stay independent, and affiliate with another national organization, I can tell you that public workers can and do control their own unions.

I think if you looked around Wisconsin right now, you'd find very little sentiment for de-certifying unions. Just the opposite in fact. Those who might have felt that way before have finally figured out who their real enemy is.

Their real enemy is you. Be proud.

Bev,

(You forgot to thank Chris for telling you what day it is.)

That is not true. I know what today is.

But earlier...

I can't believe I got my days confused. I wanted to hang out with crowds welcoming our President home

#2 - Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:14 AM EDT

So bev, what was the highlight of obamas campaign speech...

His rail against the right for daring to present a plan in writing with CBO projections?

his forcefullness on cutting $500 billion from medicare?

Perhaps it was his military cuts that had the pentagon saying wtf?

His plan to fix entitlements? You know, how he p;lans on kicking them down the road?

Bet you got all wet when obama proposed to double tax small business and the wealthy or that he wanted to create another commision at taxpayer expense.

If I was an economist I would say that ryans written plan was better than the smoke and mirror plan speech that obama gave. Not saying ryans plan will pass as presented, just that substance wins out over rhetoric.

jollyoldsoul1

I enjoy watching Feisty,Bev and navyboy pretend to be elite educated people. Im still not sure what the hell Navyboy could have done in the navy. BoatswainsMate maybe Mess cook. Bev you do realize the red lines under the words mean they are not spelled correctly. This has been a fine week for independents the humor abounds from "the Donald" who isnt running, but god its funny watching all you people get your panties in a wad.

Have you changed the load you dropped in your panties yet?

To Mr. Obama's campaign speech and to top it off with the Dumb a$$ed AZ birth cert. fiasco OMG! Could there be a week where the top of your heads were spinning so fast you created your own gravity. TGIF Im not sure I could take any more of thi

Stick around buddy there will be a lot more reasons to change your drawers scary cat.

Quick story to explain how doctors would accept pay cuts.

My wife's OBGYN when we lived in the N suburbs of Chicago announced she was closing that office and only keeping open her office in Kenosha, WI, just across the border. The reason was her malpractice insurance. In Illinois it cost her over $250,000 per year, while in Wisconsin it was around $100,000, so she could no longer afford to operate in both states.

If we could cut the frivolous legal cases and bring doctor malpractice rates to a reasonable level (say $50,000 a year), there is a lot of savings for each doctor that could go into cutting their reimbursement. There is a lot of waste in the system and it has to be cleaned up.

BigBear - I don't mind you crediting Pat with my work, she's terrific and works hard on her posts. It's a compliment of high order, in fact.

And when I'm wrong, I also own up, but this time your remark about the Pensacola claim is off base. I didn't go into that bit in detail, but here's the fact of the matter:

The story you cited goes on to say that during the night of January 8, the agitation grew stronger to open fire. Shortly after midnight, they did open fire - so the actual date of the shooting was Jan. 9, 1861. The Floridian forces were shooting blanks, however, in a symbolic display of defiant aggression. Now, that date comports with what I wrote.

However, also on Jan. 9, 1861, as the Union relief and reinforcement ship Star of the West approached Charleston Harbor, a fierce cannonade rang out from Georgian militia lines.

Maj. Robert Anderson, then in command of Union forces in the harbor - and at Ft. Sumter four months later - understood his orders at the time required him to abstain for returning or opening fire unless his post was directly attacked, so he did not then try to protect his relief ship. Had he done so, the war would indeed have begun in earnest - and it might have resulted in a far shorter conflict with far lesser loss of life, for the Confederacy had not yet formed. It is useless to speculate about that, however, since James Buchanan was a weak President who favored the integrity of the Union but believed secession to be legitimate.

A majority of Civil War buffs tend to focus on the battle history of the conflict, but its economic, social, cultural and political dimensions are quite important. If you can, obtain a copy of James McPherson's superb political and military treatment of the war, The Battle Cry of Freedom. The illustrated edition of this Pulitzer Prize-winning work is a much more readable tome. It uses Presidential politics from the 1840's on as one of its organizing themes.

And although the writing is rather florid, and certainly heavily-biased toward Northern perspectives, Matthew Brady's Illustrated History of the Civil War includes some very detailed discussion of events leading up to the war asl well as one of the most comprehensive battle histories available. It was first published to mark the 50th anniversary of the war, and was reprinted in a very nice paperback edition in 1996. You can find both through Amazon at quite reasonable prices.

If we could cut the frivolous legal cases and bring doctor malpractice rates to a reasonable level (say $50,000 a year), there is a lot of savings for each doctor that could go into cutting their reimbursement.

_____________________________________________________________

As long as the Dems are in the pockets of the trial laywers, you will never see them permit tort reform. They could have done it in the ClunkerCare HCR, but, they didn't want to anger one of their major campaign contributors. You will see the Dems riding on flying Jackasses before that happens.

Why Joe, that's exactly what Howard Dean said at a Rep. Jim Moran (D-VA) health care town hall in Virginia in 2009.

Dean told the audience that the trial lawyer lobby prevented tort reform from being included in Obamacare.

You and Howard Dean...shoulder to shoulder.

Who knew?

"...flying Jackasses..."

Sweet, Joe.

[George Bush] put in the tax cuts and almost 8 million new jobs were created before the crash

That's exactly right, Bob. In fact, what you posted is a FACT. A fact that the left consistently ignores in their mission to demonize Bush.

I'd also comment on Jody's taking job creation numbers out of context and rearranging them to support here narrative. But why bother, anyone with a brain can see right through it. Yup, that would be all 5 or 6 of us around here.

Dean told the audience that the trial lawyer lobby prevented tort reform from being included in Obamacare.

______________________________________

Even a broken clock get the time right twice a day.

That's exactly right, Bob. In fact, what you posted is a FACT. A fact that the left consistently ignores in their mission to demonize Bush.

Not to belabor this point, but the crash DID happen -- it's not a figment of the imagination, and so those 8 million jobs were lost.

If someone gives you a dollar and then takes it back again, did they really give you a dollar?

By the way, during the Clinton administration, nearly 23 million jobs were created.

And I don't need to hear about the recession at the start of the Bush administration. If you will recall, Bill Clinton was elected by following the strategy "it's the economy, stupid." He had to do that because he inherited a recession, too.

David-2588796 - That story is repeated all over the place. It is presumed that frivolous lawsuits and other abuses are the reason for high malpractice insurance rates, but the truth is such lawsuits are not the reason for high rates. And so-called "tort reform" is going to become unnecessary as the president's health care plan goes into effect.

In fact, read on - I'll drop a few tidbits about how the president has proposed significant cost savings in health care, as well as a number of unnoticed but extremely valuable savings created by health care reform.

First: High malpractice insurance rates.

There are two reasons for them:

1. The devastating cost of caring for a victim of serious medical errors.

2. The insurance companies' huge losses when the stock market and economy tanked in 2008-2009.

Not every instance of malpractice results in serious, disabling or chronic consequences that demand expensive liftme care and compensation for the damage done to someone's life and potential ability to ern a living. But almost every such malpractice case does end up in court with very substantial awards to compensae for those consequences. And I am not mentioning "punitive" awards, which indeed sometimes are quite large, but in average are either not given, or are not "boxcar" awards.

The cost of these insurance losses are spread among the pool of all the insured. Good doctors unfortunately pay for the misdeeds of bad doctors. That makes malpractice insurance, especially in specialties where one mistake or act of negligence could be catastrophic, expensive just to begin with. Later, I'll show how Health Care Reform is tackling THIS issue.

Next, insurers do not collect premiums, earn a bank deposit interest rate, and then pay out claims as necessary. Nosirree - they aggressively invest their receipts with an eye to make BIG money. And their available pool of cash is enough to finance several small countries at war.

The returns enable them to peg insurance rates at lower amounts when times are good. This is a competitive step, and your wife's doctor - if she's been in practice for at least 10 years - will remember when rates were compartively reasonable. But since 2008, insurers not only lost wads of money in the markets, but they also turned to their clients to pay the difference. Rates skyrocketed. Doctors today are paying for insurers' busted investments yesterday - when actually, insurance company shareholders and overpaid executives should be paying.

So-called "nuisance suits" genuinely piss off the doctors who try so hard to heal people. The mere idea of malpractice charges - which were almost unheard-of before the late 1960's - sets off an emotional response far beyond that justified by the actual cost of these suits to insurers. Insurance companies, on the other hand, LOVE "tort reform" that raises a significant bar to the potential of being sued and either settling or losing a trial.

To the insurers, "tort reform" is a treasured goal: The doctors still have to PAY for malpractice coverage, but the chance of insurers ever paying any claims (and those at far lower potential awards) is very, very low. It is a perfect legal rip-off, and the only losers are victims of malpractice.

2. HCR eliminates most malpractice awards

The President's Health Care Reform program fundamentally alters the nature of medical malpractice claims. Universal health coverage takes away the most costly aspect of compensating victims of serious malpractice, and utterly eliminates the basis of most "nuisance" suits, the cost of some medical treatment.

There will remain aspects of liability as a result of malpractice, particularly in intangible consequences (pain and suffering, loss of affection, etc.) and lost earnings potential. But that is half or less of most malpractice awards, and is virtually non-existent in "nuisance" suits.

So Health Care Reform virtually accomplishes what advocates of "tort reform" say they wish to achieve. And the rights of those seriously injured remain intact.

3. HCR achieves huge savings in other forms of personal and business insurance

Critics of Health Care Reform make many wild claims about how it's going to just cost more and only bring harm. That's incorrect on its face, but not the point here. HCR WILL SAVE US ALL BIG MONEY FOR INSURANCE.

Nope, not referring to health insurance. I'm referring to auto insurance, homeowners' and renters' insurance , business general liability insurance, workers' comp insurance, commercial indemnity isnurace of all kinds - product liability, riders to cover exhibitions and concerts, coverage for trucks and truck drivers, coverage for fleet or personal vehicles used on business, you name it.

If there is an insurance policy of any kind - on your rental car or your dogs, cats, goats and the odd aardvark, any kind of insurance whether commercial or consumer - that includes coverage of a claimant's medical expenses, then get ready for a MASSIVE DROP IN THE PRICE OF COVERAGE.

Universal health care coverage just removed any issue about paying for a claimant's medical bills.

These saving represent billions of dollars that stay in our pocets, go to the company's bottom line, and circulate in the economy. And oh, by the way, also accomplish a major goal of "tort reform" outside of medical malpractice. Without restricting the rights of victims.

4. President Obama's budget proposal include a major plan to cut the costs of health care

When the President said he wanted to change the method of reimbursing Medicare and Medicaid health service, he announced an effort to completely restructure the health care system. It's long overdue, will improve patient care, and save billions. It is ultimately the single most significant part of all his budget proposals.

I've described this in detail in other long posts and won't do so again now. But basically the president will undo the Reagan-era reforms that resulted in the balloning costs for medical care in America. those "reforms" actually are why you pay $150 for a bandage at a hospital, but only $3.50 when you buy a box of 100 at the drug store - EVERY action and item in medical care now is its own profit center, its own administrativecategory, and its own billing and accounting category. The president's restructuring will improve our quality of care and chop massive amounts of cost and overpricing out of the health system.

David, it's unfortunate your wife's doctor has to act before HCR takes full effect. But relief is on the way. And doctors don't even need to cut their earnings.

Big Bear .... "I mean public employees in Wisconsin, with benefits make an average of $71,000 or $45,599 before benefits, per year--heck that is pretty good considering the average (according to Labor department) is $43,460.

Apples vs oranges. Labor department includes all types of jobs and is not necessarily representative of the public employee workforce makeup. Meaningless comparison. As to the public worker average; unless you can see the percentages of positions in various salary levels it is again a meaningless figure. If most of the positions require a 4 yr degree, it would be quite reasonable to see a higher average.

Anna Molly-

In fairness, President Clinton benefited enormously from the information technology revolution. The dot-com boom (the crash is another matter...it gave Bush a recession to deal with, didn't it?)) pumped billions of dollars in taxes on capital gains profits into the U.S. Treasury in the 1990's.

For heaven's sake, Anna Molly...the U.S. Postal Service...that's right...THE U.S. POSTAL SERVICE...posted a couple of years of billion-dollar profits due to improvements in technology.

Do you honestly see something like the information technology revolution on the horizon at present?

By largely ignoring the impending threat of Islamic extremism, or not confronting it effectively, President Clinton bought peace during the period that he served as President...but he did little to prevent what was coming.

Let's see what President Obama does about the crisis he's facing with the monstrous level of U.S. debt.

Honestly, I'm not encouraged, AM.

Just the opposite, in fact.

Anna Molly and Joe in Albany-

Cut the crap!!! Your whole position complaining about how "doctors should accept pay cuts" is bogus and shortsided at best! Have you ever talked with a doctor about the healthcare environment?? Do you even know how hard it is these days to BE a doctor in our risk-averse, litigious, regulatory-laden healthcare industry???

As a doctor myself (chiropractic), I am personally offended that you would even suggest such a thing. We get our butts handed to us every day by the omnipotent, hostile health insurance corporations, as well as Uncle Sam with the peanuts handed to us in the form of Medicare and Medicaid!

To start with, doctors today are no longer making the salaries they made 30 years ago. We are no longer in the days of the "Mercedes 80's". While you, like most of America, have seen your insurance premiums go through the roof in the last decade, reimbursements to doctors have fallen significantly. As an example, Anthem BC/BS now pays DC's $10 less PER TREATMENT then they did in the 90's! Add that up over the course of the year, as well as every other insurer, and you have a significantly reduced income levels. In addition, Medicare/Medicaid pays me 40 cents on the dollar compared to my posted base rates. Now, before some bozo states that my rates "must" be too high then, let me add that I have a small practice with little overhead. But if I only accepted Medicare patients, I could not keep my doors open. The reason I even accept Medicare in the first place is that our government FORCES doctors to accept Medicare, (though I do not turn anyone away who needs care). I am one of only a few DC's in my area that do accept Medicaid because their reimbursement rates are even lower!!!! At least that's my choice, unlike Medicare!

And yes, DOCTORS SHOULD be paid far higher than the average worker, public or private!! First, not everyone is willing, or has the ability, to obtain a doctorate level education. Second, I have spent 9 years in college to become a DC! My grad school expenses alone were in excess of $120,000. And let's not forget that the whole time I was busting my butt getting an education, I was NOT out working in the field making an income like my other peers were. I pay almost as much every month in student loans as many people in my area pay for their monthly rent!

And, just in case that's not enough to convince you, last year I pulled in about $75,000 after overhead expenses were accounted. Sorry, but I do not think that $75,000 is asking too much for the beneficial services I provide. I PAID my dues to get here, I work my ass off every day, and I am constantly subjected to the threat of litigation, post-payment audits, societal stigmas, and everyone nickle-and-diming me every chance they get! Not to mention, chiropractic care has been proven repeatedly to be the safest, most cost-effective form of mainstream (NOT "alternative") healthcare we have!!! In other words, MY services are cheap compared to others. I get screwed by the government and the insurance companies (who make BILLIONS!), and you complain that doctors like myself should "accept a paycut". I will even defend the neurosugeons who can pull in $500,000 a year or more to make the salary that they do! Do you even know what it takes to BECOME a neurosurgeon?? Heck, we ought to pay these people a MILLION dollars a year for the extremely stressful work they do! We have no problem letting some greedy bankers make multi-million dollar bonuses, but when someone goes through all the tribulations to just become a doctor, you think we're overpaid!

And lastly, the cost of healthcare will always be at a premium. Do you have any idea how expensive it is to run a hospital or clinic?? The real problem is with the insurance and pharma companies who make exorbitant profits at our expense (often in collusion with government!). 30% of all healthcare costs are simply administrative, so you can thank your insurance company for the bulk of that one. Don't blame the doctors in the trenches for our inflated healthcare costs. We are not where the problem lies.

So my question to you is: Is that really all you think of the people who perform some of the most important roles in our society?? Please think before you post next time.

Doctor, in post #1.77 - Please refer above to my post #1.74 on HCR, malpractice insurance, and the president's plans to change the reimbursement system.

Your comments will be most welcome.

John A, Big Bear and Pat, Boston -

Enjoyed reading your posts about history and your ideas about the causes for the civil war, slavery etc. Big Bear's questioning about "Pickett's charge" at Gettysburg and Hitler's betrayal of Russia ala Napoleon reminded me of a book called "What if." The book describes mainly historical battle related events and what would have happened if... as presented by historical and military writers.

"What If" - Robert Crawley

It not only talks about the Civil war but it goes into WWII, in fact it talks about what could have happened if the British wouldn't have escaped at Dunkirk or what could have happened had Hitler not have invaded Russia. Also discusses ancient battles as well. Punic wars - Rome vs. Carthage, Persian vs. Greek/Athenian conflicts and how the outcome could have changed the course of history.

I also used to love a show on Discovery called "Battles BC." It presented in detail computer animations of troop movements and breaking points in important battles.

For me history is so much better than politics.

Oh well back to the usual. But, But...Don't you know the ___— are trying to destroy the US!

I enjoy your posts, Mark...

But, remember...

The politics of today is the history of tomorrow.

Regrettably...I'm old enough to know that.

lol

John A.-400474:

Yes, thank you for your post. I know you worked hard on finding concrete examples to support your position. I enjoy it when I can read a rational, professional post with decent support.

To answer your question, however, I have not fully read Obama's HCR bill, so I cannot provide any factual basis for my opinions (hey, I'm busy with a full-time practice, and a young family-I simply don't have the time to read all the bills put forth!). But please allow me to opine-

There's not much I can really say about the HCR bill itself. Again, I have not read it, so understandably, I am at a disadvantage to discuss it. However, I can say that the majority of other doctors I have spoken to are not crazy about the idea.

To begin with, while it certainly sounds promising (and I agree with the tort reform you posted), many doctors are scared that it will create an environment in which we will have even less say in the matter of our compensation. Unlike in most industries, we are simply not allowed to set our own prices. Sure, I have my base rates, but they are rarely paid at that level unless someone comes in without any insurance and pays cash- rare enough with the amount of Medicaid in my area.

However, despite years of waffling for or against Universal Health Care, I can publicly state that I am all for "socialized medicine" now. Granted, I am not excited about the idea of our government running the whole show (as Medicare is a giant headache at times), but I for one am sick and tired (no pun) of my patients having to forego care they need, or having to stop care midway due to the lack of money for their services.

For me it is a philosophical issue at heart. Why is it that the most richest, most prosperous nation in the world cannot be bothered to take care of its own people? We can find the money any time to go bomb people in 3rd world countries, but we cannot help the most needy amongst us? This is a serious disconnect in our society.

From a pragmatic standpoint, I understand that Universal care will provide many cost-savings across the board for the very reasons you mentioned. The only practical issue at the moment is the fact that Medicare rates are VERY low, and as I stated earlier, if all my patients were on Medicare at current reimbursement rates, I could not keep my doors open. So, essentially, Medicare reimbursements will have to be raised about 20-40% just to make it economically viable for doctors to stay open. Otherwise, we will soon hear the giant sucking sound of doctors leaving opractice for other pursuits, and then we'll all be in a pickle.

Indy, here is a thought. With Single Payer you and your doctor group will not have to have such a large billing department, you know, that group of people that have to argue over payment on Every bill with the insurance corps. That should save you a bundle of money right there and would make your actual pay a bit higher than it is now. I agree, reimbursement rates should be higher, but the Repubs have worked for decades to create hardship within that system so that more doctors would opt out; it is part of that "strangle the baby in the bathtub" idea that they have been espousing for so long.

I would MUCH prefer a system that has an overhead cost of 3-6% over one that charges 30% so that the execs and their lawyers can take home multi-million dollar bonuses, while they deny anyone that they can, legally or no.

Indy, given the demands upon your time, we should all be grateful you stopped by to offer your thoughts. Thanks very much.

I understand entirely why you and your colleagues are anxious about the implications of HCR. It IS your livelihood, and much more, at stake.

Since HCR is at least in the beginning based upon private insurance plans, I believe that you will find your practice minimally affected in terms of operations. You'll just have MORE patients. AND you will be saving lots on all manner of other insurance (as will we all).

Where I think you might wish to pay closer attention is to the proposals the White House will deliver to reform the reimbursement system of Medicare and Mediaid. As you know now, the DRGs on which the present system is based is a mare's nest that is responsible for the 30% administrative cost you mentioned.

If the President's proposal eliminates those as the building blocks of reimbursements, and puts something else in its place, the changes will fundamentally alter your prctice and will be followed by private insurers, too. You may discover that even without any increases to reimbursements, the changed basis for them will match or exceed what you think is fair now.

We'll have to see. That particular debate isn't in progress now. The details have yet to be seen. I expect a catfight of titanic proportions over it. If your time for this topic is limited, allow me to recommend you pick that subject to follow, it involves you far more intimately than any of the other issues. And please dop back in, from time to time, to offer your thoughts. They are wlecome.

Molly -- thanks for your penetrating, completely objective insights. And thanks for reinforcing my point that only 5 or 6 of us around here have a brain.

Yellowdog - Let's see this time whether I can finish this and actually post it. I had a good one going a while ago, but an errant keystroke dumped it.

I just about crapped when What if - came out. I'd been working on exactly the same kind of book, had about 18 months of research and writing into it, and just stopped. The various historical episodes were not entirely parallel, but some intersections in history are so obvious anyone writing this sort of piece would pick them.

I think eventually I'll try to turn that work into a volume of "alternative history" fiction. After all, What If - is actually fiction, too. My upper-division college advisor, Arthur J. Marder, made that clear with a big fat D on my first paper for him when I wrote a "what if" treatment of conditions between Ireland and Britain at the outset of WWI. I covered all the facts and nuances he required for the paper, but did so in context of the war being averted. "What if," he scrawled on the first page, "is NOT history!"

You and others who enjoy fact-based historical speculative fiction will love the works of Harry Turtledove, S.M. Stirling, David Weber, David Drake and Eric Flint. And Neil Stephenson's "Baroque Cycle," while something of a campy treatment of certain historical facts, is incredibly entertaining. All of these guys, by the way, quietly slip in considerable education in obscure elements of history (at least, obscure to Americans), history of technology, and the finer points of many aspects of diplomacy, military strategy and tactis, and lots more.

ALWAYS happy to recommend a good read.

(Oh, if folk reading this are more into murder mysteries, just wait until you pick up Ariana Franklin's Mistress of the Art of Death series - set in England in the 1170's with a most remarkable female protagonist!)

Anna - the easter bunny could have been credited with all the job gains made in the 90's because of the tech boom and resulting bust. I think clinton just hung on tight and enjoyed the ride. Funny thing though I haven't heard of anyone blaming clinton for the crash.

Cdahl - you need to start reading corporations P/L statements. Corporations pay more than just income taxes. Bev of chicago once referenced a congressional record page to prove that exxon-mobil didn't pay income tax in 2009 (?). Then I saw the list of all the other taxes and fees that they did pay to the government. government credits and any possible income tax avoided looked like chump change.

BTW - corporate taxes and fees paid are considered costs to the corporation, and go towards the price that the end user pays. IE the corporations really just collect the tax from the consumer and pass it thru to the consumer. Income taxes are based on net profit. If a corporations net profit after taxes does not meet the corporations plan of liquidity, the consumer will also be paying part of that income tax as well.

Thank you John A. and B. Honest for your thoughts and courtesy.

I'll certainly keep an eye on the situation. I'm glad to know others are aware of the issues and are keeping track of them!

Alas, I have a busy afternoon scheduled, and I must run! Have a good weekend, everyone.

John A - What originally led me to "What If" was while googling, (actually google probably wasn't around back then), historical fiction novels.

How cool! Thanks for sharing, will probably check out those titles.

The FR righties seem a little more desperate than usual this morning, but it's been a bad week for them being hit on both sides. A hit dog will howl.

First, Republicans are betrayed by the capitulation of their own Congressional Leadership, who sold them $352 million in spending cuts as if they were $38 billion, while confessing their inability to touch any of the President's priorities.

Meanwhile, Obama proposes a serious deficit reduction plan, overshadowing the sinister Ryan budget plan, and effectively seizing the budget mantle from the GOP. The debate is pulled to the left where once again there is serious discussion about ending the Bush Tax Cuts.

Why else dredge up old Rasmussen (R) polls on Obama's Health Care Reform?

Matt L - ROTFLMAO.... A serious plan by obama, it was a cmpaign speech! BTW - where is pelosi's plan? Reids plan?

The senates gang of 6 (bipartisan btw) was concerned that obama might steal their thunder for addressing our debt. Certainly looks like their worries were misplaced as obama's re-election campaign rolls on.

Wonder if obamas campaign slogan will be... "Stroke the poor, Stroke the elderly, Stroke the disabled, I won't be president when our debt catches up!"

Matt L:

Great post today to end a funky week. The GOP/TP continues to flounder around in their own mess as more and more of their agendas get exposed to be basically the same thing. They keep trying to cloak their agenda(s) as :Financial Responsibility", "National Security", "Freedom of Speech/Religion", etc etc when they really are nothing more than an attack on the Middle Class to redistribute wealth and power from one segment of the population (middle class) to another (the millionairesand billionaires). They proposed huge spending cuts to primarily middle class programs and then take the majority of those savings and turn around a give the people that bought their vote huge tax cuts. This one ideology (redistribution of wealth and power) permeates virtually every proposal they present. They have yet to honor any of their campaign pledges like creating jobs, stimulating the economy or improving education. In fact everything they propose does just the opposite.

First, Republicans are betrayed by the capitulation of their own Congressional Leadership, who sold them $352 million in spending cuts as if they were $38 billion, while confessing their inability to touch any of the President's priorities.

Matt L - You are SO RIGHT about that (as posted above). it seems like the GOP 'noise machine' was in full swing and NO ONE looked at what was ACTUALLY being spent.

It looks like President Obama got the best of the GOPers and the Tea Partyers.

Again.

What is even more hilarious is that the Tea Partyers were going to claim victory on the $38 BILLION - that is until they found out that the cuts were only going to be $352 MILLION. And to think that they GAVE UP their 'chits' on Planned Parenthood and the EPA because they THOUGHT they were bettering the President.

I guess we have a lot of pretty RED-FACED Tea partyers today.

Can we say that the Tea Partyers were ROOKED??

You betcha!

I always wondered why the President was so eager to accept the bogus number that Speaker Boehner threw out there for him. It looks like THIS is the reason why.

Now Speaker Boehner owes President Obama a favour for providing him with some cover from the rabid Tea Partyers, and you can believe that the favour will be returned during the Debt Ceiling debate. The Debt ceiling WILL be raised - Speaker Boehner will see to it that the Republicans in the House play ball.

No matter what the naysayers will come up with - in the political arena or on this blog - President Obama DEFINITELY won this round.

Popcorn, anyone??

How about taxing the one place in America that runs 1.4 to 1.7 TRILLION Dollars worth of trades a day with, say, a very modest 5% tax. You know, Wall Street, the Stock Markets, Futures and Derivative market (the 1.4 to 1.7 T is based on JUST the Stock Markets) This would provide a very easy $24 TRILLION/year in revenue PLUS. Do NOT go saying that there is not enough money to pay for things, it is just all locked up in the stock market where it is not considered 'income' until traded. Remember, the American TAXPAYERS are the ones that bailed them out and LOST TRILLIONS of dollars in retirement incomes and now it is time for Wall Street to start paying it's share back to the American People. And besides, 5% is a TINY amount considering the huge volume of trades that happen.

We would be able to pay off the National Debt, fund Government FULLY, rebuild the infrastructure that has been falling apart, raise Social Security to actual 'above poverty level' and even redistribute (a nasty word amongst the radical right unless the money is flowing upwards, like with the Bush Tax Cuts or the Ryan Plan of Insanity) some of that income to the poorer 50% of the populace to the tune of around $50K/year which would stimulate the economy to no end: people would be able to pay off their debts, mortgages, actually be able to afford food for 3 meals a day, clothing, and not have to try to 'just get by'. And, on top of all of that, the lower 50% would then be able to actually HAVE the money to be ABLE to pay taxes, unlike now where even with the tax breaks for poverty level, most poor are barely getting by and running up debts because prices for everything keep climbing but wages keep going DOWN.

This would also allow a great number of people who have the skills and know how to actually start new businesses themselves and actually GROW the economy from the ground up. Trickle Down has been proven to be a failure, our present economy is the result of that misguided ideology.

Of course, the right will scream, and loudly, all sorts of things from "Double taxation" (yet sales taxes are just fine for alcohol and cigarettes as well as the way that many States fund themselves, no one screams double taxation there, now do they?) they would call it "Redistribution of wealth" (yet the present tax codes, with all of their loopholes and the like and low taxes on 'capital gains' happen to, presently, be redistributing the wealth from the poor and shrinking middle class to the Already-Too-Obscenely-Wealthy-To Fail club) and they would also scream that then the poor would not want to work since they have 'some' money (yet most of the populace would be VERY happy to be able to work, to feel productive and Not HAVE to depend on handouts to raise their children...Most Americans are Not lazy and those that say they are are just projecting THEMSELVES into that picture. Most Americans KNOW that handouts are a trap that tend to KEEP one poor, that working, at a decent, LIVING, wage, is the only way to really get ahead.)

Cutting spending drastically (to pay off the banks that we just bailed out to the tune of trillions for THEIR criminal mismanagement), especially while we are still amidst a deep recession, is economic suicide, as we have seen from Japan, Chile and now with Greece and Ireland, yet, that is what the BANKS (who make massive money off from debt) would MUCH prefer. Austerity measures means a broke nation and massive bonuses for the Banksters, and we cannot afford that and the Banksters do not need it.

Most poor Americans try their damnedest to take responsibility for themselves, yet, if there are NO jobs available, since the wealthy have moved all profitable jobs overseas where they can pay slave-level wages in depressed economies, then how can a person Possibly be able to survive without the Govt. safety net. It is NOT the fault of the workers that the jobs left, it is the fault of the wealthy corporations being so greedy that they simply do Not CARE about the people that have lost their jobs, even if those people are highly trained and schooled. For the amoral corporations, the bottom line is everything and the people that actually worked to build up the companies so that they had the money to transfer the jobs overseas get tossed to the side like garbage, and then treated like they are garbage because they now are out of work.

Money stuck in the Stock Market, Derivatives and futures markets actually do NOTHING for the real, Main Street economy because it does not circulate amongst the rest of the economy. In order for an economy to actually function, the money MUST circulate evenly between the top and the bottom. If it gets concentrated at the top, like it is now where the richest 400 families control more money than the lower 175 Million people, then the economy gets frozen, just like it is now. This is unsustainable. It is time to remove the massive income inequalities.

This is not to say that people cannot be rich, yes, we all aspire to that, but there is getting to be a smaller and smaller percentage of the population that can call themselves rich, let alone middle class because those with the most money can always leverage MORE money into their pockets, where it tends to stay. And at the same time we have a huge and growing number of people who USED to be solidly middle class that are now numbered amongst the poor for reasons that are beyond their control: The rich sold them out for pennies on the dollar wage wise, and now they expect us to take those same slave-level wages which will in no way feed a family, let alone clothe nor house them. Too many workers are paid so little that they HAVE to get foodstamps just to survive, let alone keep their older cars and shoddy housing, wearing their clothes until they are rags. I hear people on this site from the right complain that some of the unemployed have better cars than they do...that is because they used to have good paying jobs that allowed them to BUY those cars; you CANNOT go and buy a new car on unemployment or Social Security, there is no way, you are making barely enough to stay in your house and eat and have power.

No, just cutting is NOT the answer, we MUST increase revenues and taxes are the price one pays for civilization. Cutting taxes and slashing spending, at massive cost to those who already have next to nothing, is just a recipe for a descent into barbarism. The lessons of the French and American Revolutions have been lost to the minds of those on the right, but those of us on the left remember them very well.

Navy, just last year according to "Fortune" Untaxed foreign profit GE 94Billion,Pfizer 48.2B,Merck40.4 B, Johnson & Johnson 37B, Exon Mobile 35B. Citigroup 32.1 B Cisco31.6, IBM 31.1 B P&G 30 B Microsoft 29.5 B add to that the fraud perpetuated by Wall St and the banks.These are the people we who should be contributing to the revenues of the United States. But instead they are contributing to both political parties. The don't pay anything and we want to tell people and small business pay their fair share. All the while we are fighting among ourselves for the crumbs left behind.

Kudos to you B Honest! I could not have said it better myself. People need to wake up! All the loyalty we were giving to the corporations when we were working for them is being paid back with LESS than nothing. Remember this...There is no honor amongst theives and sooner or later Corporate America will find this out.

Payback is a b**ch!

Sorry this post in wrong area.

Jody:

Great way to end another week.

Jody,

As always, Great Research on your part.

Jody. You are right to be troubled by by the bias of the pundits, but surely not surprised? Just this morning Chuck Todd on his Daily Rundown Show was quick to suggest that because not all democrats voted for the budget plan last night, that there is a rift between the Obama and House democrats, failing to note that republicans also split on the vote.

Biden was snoozing after working so hard. He needed a rest.

But the Birthers want to shut the Government down for the sake of interrupting the pursuit of prosperity. They see President Obama become the Commander in Chief, the Head Honcho, the Big Cheese, the Leader of the Free World and that literalely drove them up the wall that they crashed through the ceiling landing on the moon. They can't allow another President Obama, so what do they do, say, "shut er down."

Giggidy

:^/

LouisJ

Biden was snoozing after working so hard. He needed a rest.

you know, i want to ask everybody, how many times have you drifted off to sleep afterlunch when your boss is either giving a pep talk or a speech to the employees.

I know we have all done it and we were not in our 60s. Ok!!!! but it was a LOL moment.

Just in time for the Taxpayer Tea Party rally:

Today's local paper has a front page story about our Tea Party Governor LePage's Communications director, and the five foreclosures he is facing on rental properties, along with unpaid property taxes and sewer bills.

Seems Mr. Demeritt "bought aggressively," as he puts it, before the recession, and now can't afford the expenses of his properities. He earns $81,000 a year and his wife, also a public worker in the AG office, makes $53,000 a year (plus benefits.)

Talk about do as I say, not as I do, LePage's communications director has been trumpeting the Tea Party ideology for his boss, since his election, while putting the city and his bank on the hook for his mortgages, sewer and tax bills. And to think the right-wing likes to blame the recession on poor people for buying homes they couldn't afford!

I find it ironic, Gov. LePage ended his recent speech on the budget by exhorting welfare recpients to "get a job!" All the while he provides government jobs to his irresponsible press secretary (not to mention his own 22 year old daughter who makes $41,000 as an aide.) The hypocrisy of the Tea Party, who like to preach the merits of self-reliance to poor people while taking advantage of the system themselves, is astounding.

http://www.pressherald.com/news/top-lepage-aide-facing-five-foreclosures_2011-04-15.html

Amy:

Kudos. That is the GOP/TP theme song they sing every morning. "Do as I say Not as I do, More for Me less for You".

It's fun on Fridays to poke fun at the absurdities--glad you enjoy my attempt, thank you.

Patrick, no it's not a surprise. I missed Chuck T's comment this morning. The media gets annoying with their constant attempts to create controversy and division where it doesn't exist and it does nothing to educate the public.

Amy, your Govenor and his crew are almost unbelievable. Navy, that quote sums up the GOP/TP perfectly.

I definitely agree with post 3.8 Jody. They truly need to start educating instead of de-educating... is that a word?

Great job folks... nice posts this fine Friday...

"To the moon, Alice!"

If the Right is a Tea Bag - is the Left a Douche Bag?

What this article suggests is that members of both parties are likely to cast votes for the record that cover their backsides at home. We should all rememer that this vote is entirely symbolic -this bill should not make it out of the Senate and most certainly will never survive a veto should it get to the President.

Today's action is purely political posturing. We should not be surprised if Boehner, who is absolutely aware of this, tries to badger his entire complement into a unanimous vote in favor, thereby toning down the clamor that arose by yesterday's defections.

On the Democratic side of the aisle, it is probable that Nancy Pelosi will attempt a similar result.

Any defectors today will be looking over their shoulders - if there are any, it's a VERY strong clue about the presence or lack of significant Tea Party strength at home, as well as of those members who may already be on shaky ground and unwilling to risk becoming targets of costly third-party attempts.

Jody, it pains me to air Maine's dirty laundry in public, but people need to know the consequences on the local level of putting Tea Party policies into practice. On a national level, politicians like Bachmann and Paul Ryan wax eloquently about the magic of the free market and "self-reliance" but when the rubber hits the road, their ideology simply provides cover for well connected people to fleece the country. Seeing is believing.

I live in a Progressive area where we don't have many Tea Bagger rallies. However, I have been to them, and find them very entertaining. You'll find that you feel like you are in a Saturday Night Live skit. They are so funny and entertaining.

Viet Sem Fi

If the Right is a Tea Bag - is the Left a Douche Bag?

#3.12 - Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:10 AM EDT

No, but you are.

Jody, this is one of my favorite posts each week. Much of it is so crazy I have to remind myself this is real and not the Onion. Imperial Walker in front of Issa's committe was particularly entertaining;

KUCINICH: Let me ask you about some of the specific provisions in your proposals to strip collective bargaining rights. First, your proposal would require unions to hold annual votes to continue representing their own members. Can you please explain to me and members of this committee how much money this provision saves for your state budget?

WALKER: That and a number of other provisions we put in because if you’re going to ask, if you’re going to put in place a change like that, we wanted to make sure we protected the workers of our state, so they got value out of that. [...]

KUCINICH: Would you answer the question? How much money does it save, Governor?

WALKER: It doesn’t save any.

After this heated back-and-forth, Kucinich requested that Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), the committee chairman, allow a Wisconsin Legislative Fiscal Bureau report (PDF) to be included in the official congressional record. The Fiscal Bureau is a nonpartisan financial oversight agency comparable to the federal Congressional Budget Office; its report states that nothing in Walker’s collective bargaining provisions has any fiscal impact on the state of Wisconsin. This is contrary to Walker’s earlier claims that the bill is a budgetary matter and would, for example, lessen the burden on taxpayers to fund public pension plans.

Issa denied Kucinich the right to insert the document in the record without further committee review, arguing that it’s standard protocol to do so when committee members haven’t yet seen a given document. Kucinich was outraged, but the document ultimately made it into the record.

http://www.americanindependent.com/179209/walker-admits-collective-bargaining-provision-doesnt-save-any-money-for-wisconin

lmao......navy just let his elite educated guard down.

JohnA - nice balanced post.

Jody - another exellent post on another crazy week in Politics.

I never knew that you were so FUNNY!! Some of the 'points' you've highlighted had me laughing.

Excellent job. I look forward to this post every Friday.

Oh yes, we are looking forward to today’s House vote on Ryan’s budget.

And who would that person be? Rep. Ryan has served since 1999. Let's try to avoid spreading the usual misinformation on these boards. He raised $3.9M for his House seat--double the average for the House of Representatives spend on a seat---32% of it from PAC contributions. I'm not defending President Obama here, but 90% of the President's campaign funding came from individuals.

The medical community does love Rep Ryan's privatization ideas, as does insurance and investment companies. He's just another talking head that is owned.

Sometimes, when a politician is not "re-elected", it's for a very good reason that has everything to do with stupidity and self-interest and nothing to do with courage. An example is say taking a stand to gut health care or basic retirement hardworking Americans need in order to fund tax cuts for corporations and upper income individuals who don't need it. They don't call them "third rails" of politics because it takes courage to touch them. They're called third rails because of the sure fire reaction when those too ignorant to understand cause and effect, do. Then again, we apparantly need these occasional reminders of just what happens when you're really that clueless---

Wow, great point AP and one I hadn't seen anyone make as of yet. Good thinking and thanks very much.

DBO:

Good morning and happy Friday. Having a little trouble with FT posting this morning. Seems to want to decide for me where my post goes. Sorry for the XX but once you post you cannot delete it.

Navy, it's probably the nazis trying to sabotage your PC. Might want to check that out.

Nope, they (the guys you mentioned above) have taken over the GOP/TP and are currently trying to sabotage the economy and democracy of this country, YOU MAY WANT TO CHACK THAT OUT.

Chack it out Chack it out ....The fly is falling the fly is falling! Humor abounds!

Only looks "highly significant" to Arizonans who can't get copies of the US constitution down their way (and their moronic birther counterparts in other states whose job it is apparantly is to keep the rest of the country laughing.)

xxoo hugs and kisses!

Amy:

Too funny - Go get EM

Kibbles and bits. HEY JoAnna! Lunch is served!!

Be careful your BMI is getting up there!

So what do we have here?? An illiterate gay squid??

We are living in an age of insanity.

Indeed we are Nash... indeed we are! *shakes head*

Nash:
Nice post and I agree. They have no new ideas and the ones they (GOP/TP) have do not work. Their solution is to try the failed agenda again and again. This is insane. They are counting on an uneducated voting populace to try for another bite at the apple with the same failed agenda. Nothing chnages.

Great post, Nashville. The 2010 midterms substantiate the quote about repeating the same mistakes over and over. I'll repeat my jobs numbers from earlier. Carter and Clinton created 33.5 million jobs in 12 years with higher tax rates on the wealthy. Reagan, Bush 41 and Bush 43 created 21.5 million jobs in 20 years with considerably lower taxes on the wealthy while claiming it would create more jobs if the rich just paid less in taxes!

I posted this the other day and thought you provided the perfect op to post again... Thanks buddy.

Aristotle

-Suppose, then, that all men were sick or deranged, save one or two of them who were healthy and of right mind. It would then be the latter two who would be thought to be sick and deranged and the former not!

Thank you all for you feedback . . . hope you have a super weekend . . . I have finally stopped coughing as much . . . so I think I might have a good one too! :o)

Nashville, Enough with the liberal bull crap about corporate people not paying thier share of taxes. Who do you idiots think payed for the 2 years worth of unemployment extensions you liberals got?? It was the Federal Unemployment Taxes, State Unemployment Taxes, The Other half of an employee's Social Security Tax, The other 1/2 of the Employee's Medicare Tax, Property Taxes that all these businesses paid.

Dear UAW Pleeeeeese:

It takes a really special person to first put in place policies that destroy the American economy and lead to record unemployment, and then look for a pat on the back for the pittance paid towards unemployment insurance. . . all while never asking why is it that we need unemployment insurance since we are supposed to be experiencing record job growth because of a decade of tax cuts?

Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees.

UAW Pleeeeeeeease

Nashville, Enough with the liberal bull crap about corporate people not paying thier share of taxes. Who do you idiots think payed for the 2 years worth of unemployment extensions you liberals got?? It was the Federal Unemployment Taxes, State Unemployment Taxes, The Other half of an employee's Social Security Tax, The other 1/2 of the Employee's Medicare Tax, Property Taxes that all these businesses paid.

So what. Most of them still do not pay Income taxes and that is the point. Keep trying to dodge the real issue by changing the subject. The impotence is showing, better put your diaper back on.

I feel your passion all the way to Texas, Nash! PASSION is what will drive the campaign for Obama's re-election. I have been heartened many times over the last decade with the wisdom and truth I have read here. The valley of shadow of death or the "w" war in the least of us, to be biblical, was rough on me. I was extremely angry and depressed after the 2000 theft of our nations leadership.

I turned to the new fangled media that had seemingly come to be ubiquitous at the beginning of the new century. The internet. I'm still just a hair short of being a techno-idiot but I've observed a long time and my passion is coming back. I credit the well thought out, researched counterpoint to what passes for political coverage in the media river that continues widening for that.

I am not on Facebook, twitter or any of those newer things but if Texas becomes a battle ground I want to be involved. I used to live in Chicago and learned what it felt like to have skin in the game there. So Thanks First Read cast for shining a light of hope for those of us who live in deep RED states so we can find a reason to hold tight to our 'joie de vie'!

BTW, I think that "hope- changy" thing is workling mighty fine for me; even out here in BIG sky, BIG hair and BIG head (full of over-blown self-importance and arrogance) country, where a great many good hearts still thrive.

Missy:

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts! It is real everyday Americans just like you that give me hope!

Last weekend I was at a community yard say in a very rural Tennessee town . . . tea party country we have been told . . . and you know what I saw hand painted right on one of the buildings in the town square? Obama-Biden in red, white, and blue!

And what was written on the side of the buidling? The words "No Palin" from top to bottom, with the the very last one followed by the word, "EVER"!

Talk about an unexpected treat . . . just like your post today! Hang in there Missy . . . and thanks for your kind words . . . means more than you know.

oops . . . that should say "community yard sale" . . . not say. :o)

Wow Navy, You convinced me. I'd like to help. Which one of your bankrupt entitlements would you like me to make the check out to? But please if I give you a $1.00 just try not to spend $3 ok? God Bless you....

UAW:

Why did we have record unemployment with the tax cuts in place since ya'll claim they create jobs?

How did we turn a surplus into a deficit with fiscal "conservatives" in charge?

I won't hold my breath for your answer.

I know, the actual funny part is that they think they are elite and uber educated. Its been funny to watch this past week! Its going to be a long loud summer with these liberals demonstrating as a minority. Reminds me of 1970 coming back from S.E.A. A minority of people trying to yell over the majority

Nashville, It's is simple. To much money was loaned to morons to buy houses. Fannie and Freddie had the biggest part in that. When investors figured out these morons wouldnt pay back the money they stopped handing out easy loans. Morons were forced to live with in thier means. Unfortunatley that meant fewer jobs for other morons.

Missy. What a wonderful post to read this Friday morning, thank you for posting and I hope you drop by more often to make some comments.

Good to see you this morning Missy!

Hope you saw my reply to your 'Spanky's an idiot' post yesterday! ;o)

Juicy stuff! lol

Nothing like continuing the right wing talking points about taxes and Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac (FM & FM). Here are some real facts, unlike the right wing talking poi . . . no, lets call them what they are, LIES.

http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-17350-9_things_the_rich_dont_want_you_to_know_about_taxes.html

http://levin.senate.gov/newsroom/supporting/2011/PSI_WallStreetCrisis_041311.pdf

As you can see from the second link, FM & FM came to the exotic derivatives game late and, while they did not help, they were NOT the cause of the collapse. Remember, FM & FM do NOT originate loans.

Stop lying UAW. It will set you free.

Thanks Matt, I can't beleive I thought it was morons who stopped paying thier mortgages. I geuss it really was George Bush and the Republicans who didnt pay them. (sarcasm) Here's the deal Matt, if you are blaming your lot in life on a business or a politician you are destined to a life of poverty. Go in peace my freind with that advice....

UAW:

We agree about the "moron" part, but it would seem that the persons with the MBA's whose only job was to "quallify" folks for a mortgage, as in make sure they could pay, would be the idiots.

And of course, you oh so neatly sidestepped the main question: Where are all the freaking jobs that the tax cuts were suppose to create? Must be sitting right next to those "weopons of mass destruction" in Iraq.

I think I've invested enough time with you for this year.

Peace.

You are correct, Nashville_fan, we really shouldn't waste any more time with UAW Pleeeeease. Considering how fast he responded, he is obviously not interested in the truth since there was no time for him to even follow the links, let alone read them (but, to be fair, one of them was 649 pages long). He only came back to attack me and this makes him NAWO, at best.

UAW Pleeeeease, you are not and never will be my friend. I will go where most tend tend to avoid and say what most will not, you are a liar and a fool. Stop lying and get over yourself, you are not even a clever writer.

Let's face it, increasing or decreasing taxes has nothing to do with jobs in the private sector. The real rub here is you liberals have out spent your resources like a bunch of grass hoppers and now you need these rich conservative ants to fund your subsidized life style. If you guys are ever in Des Moines Iowa look me up we'll have a "Beer Summit" I know a bar that trades food stamps for liquer....

UAW..."To much money was loaned to morons to buy houses. Fannie and Freddie had the biggest part in that. When investors figured out these morons wouldnt pay back the money they stopped handing out easy loans. Morons were forced to live with in their means. Unfortunately that meant fewer jobs for other morons."

Oh please that chestnut has been roasted so many times that not even an ember is left. Reducing the complexity of the U.S. economy to one factor without including the "expert" vipers(like Countrywide) who gladly indulged in granting sub-prime loans (which Fannie/Freddie were obligated to assume) and the "talented" vampires on Wall Street who securitized and then bet against them is just tunnel vision. Yes there are eager people who naively accepted bad loans and many who gambled foolishly, but along with them are a whole cast of characters that include corporations, politicians from both parties and regulators/other quasi-govt mgrs(like Fannie/Freddie) that failed the American public.

And you can bet the rich conservatives didn't get hurt and likely benefitted from the chaos. Am I angry at them too -- you bet. It sure as hell wasn't me who is buying the politicians to set policy and law that favors the wealthy and big corporations. And considering that jerk Ryan is my representative I have no representation of my views. I want sensible, responsible government that levels the playing field and looks after my basic rights and helps create a society where individuals aren't born and living in economic misery for their entire lives without a resonable opportunity for change. If that makes me a liberal or a progressive, then I will gladly wear that approbation. I'm sick and tired of hearing conservative, liberal, progressive, socialism used as epithets. Instead of being proud of the merits of each of these aspects we have become self-loathing americans all too willing to point our finger at someone else.

Wow, JesMe2, very well said. I feel your pain about Ryan, I have only Republican/TP Inc. party representatives, too.

Be nice...seriously, I think Michelle Bachmann needs a hug right about now.

Job1:

Happy Friday. Let us hope it gets tougher for them as more and more information comes out each day on their real agenda for America. To turn us into an "Oligarchy". President Obama called Rep. Ryan on it during his speech and pi$$ed off the right. They cannot handle the truth. They do not want any compromises. They want higher unemployment and a failed economy because they feel it is the way to the white house. We shall see in 2012.

So true :-)

lmao.....he set Ryan up, invited him to sit with him then pulled out his wedge. That stuff does not go unnoticed. Paybacks a biotch!

True that about paybacks...one more reason it's hard to feel sorry for the GOPTP after they held tax breaks for all Americans hostage through filibuster...then turn around and claimed that President Obama was the one who wanted the wealthy to get a bigger, extra-special tax break.

There's your payback dude. Deal with it.

Yes it will when President Obama get re-elected and he will.

In case these libs on here can get off the government teat long enough to look around.... gas prices are skyrocketing, food prices, housing, taxes , and about everything else, all thanks to Obama and his policies. To see a person from the armed forces stick up for this anti American muslim president is enough to make me puke. He is selling us down the river and his apologizing for America tours maybe were not seen by Mr Navy Disable Veteran- retired. Your president has shown his colors and is doing exactly as he wanted to do, and thats put this country in its place and turn it into a socialist state. So if you love socialism and want the government to hold your hand from cradle to grave, your man is the man to vote for, but if your a true American, you would throw this bum out and put him back in the ghetto of Chicago where he came from.... both him and his anti Americna wife Michelle "for the first time im proud to be and American" . They both are disgusting and need to be thrown out...... by the way..... disabled American 1st Cav soldier from the viet nam war.

Jeff ... pure BS; gas is skyrocketing because of speculation that spiraled from the Libya uprising and provided the perfect touchpoint to set the stage for another round of 'make money from fear' -- demand in this country is not a factor. And gas prices impact everything else in our economy. I'm not impressed by your rant though I salute your service.

I truly appreciate your service Jeff and your sacrifice but I think you're drinkin a little too much tea down at the legion hall man. Your comments indicate nothing but fear and nonsense with little reason or basis in fact. No one wants a socialist state but no one wants a plutocracy either and that's what your boys on the right are trying to create. I'm not going to sell out to those too lazy to work and make their own way, nor am I going to sell out to those too lazy to work because they already have it ALL as a result of soaking the middle class for all its worth. It's about balance and right now, we've let the economic balance shift totally towards the top 2% of people in this country. I hope THAT isn't what you fought and sacrificed for!!

Seattle is a liberal cesspool, so what?

It just doesn't get any funnier than being caught in a lie and responding "his remark was not intended to be a factual statement."

Anyone in the MSM feel like asking Mr. Kyl why he feels he has the right to lie to the American people, since he's already admitted to doing so?

Gee RVZ, Republicans filibustered long and hard to get those things. Why are Conservatives working so hard to get the credit?

Maybe because it was all a set up from the beginning. Republicans didn't actually want to DO anything...they just wanted to be able to blame President Obama.

The real quarterback beat all those armchair wannabes this week. Now their wittow feewers are hurted.

Be little (in mind), he HAS proved it! NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!

What's in your Kool Ade auntie?

Maybe "natural born" means that no child born by Caesarian section can be President. Or maybe it means that it has to be a "natural," non-medicated delivery. I wonder what proof would be acceptable in Arizona...it's strange that as we, as a society, have more ways to check and verify identity than ever before, people are more and more likely to believe in murky conspiracies.

I don't know about Auntie, but I like my kool aide in Fruit Punch flavor with a sustainable amount of sugar. Oh yeahhhhhhhhh!!

Giggidy

:^)

Steve-335260, Belittle

Your guys are dumber than a bag of rocks,

this is America if a black man runs for president or any guy with a funny name, don't you think that the CIA, FBI, and Interpol have checked this guy out or do you not trust our central intelligence and the FEDERALS to do there jobs, or are they undercover liberals

Maybe, for the rabid anti-abortion crazies, since life begins at conception.....perhaps where you are conceived determines your citizenship!

Jeff:

Good point, but I think the rocks at least have some redeeming factors. Great posts this week, keep em coming and have a great weekend.

Louis J.

Happy TGIF. See you later at the DDI. We need a tall drink afterthis week. Have a great day.

GET THEE BEHIND ME SATAN! I mean Bedevil...or umm. Belittle. Apt moniker.

I loved it when Candy Crowley knocked Trump on his backside on that issue last Sunday. And yet he continued to insist it's a winning issue. Dummkopf.

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired

Jeff:

Good point, but I think the rocks at least have some redeeming factors. Great posts this week, keep em coming and have a great weekend.

your right a bad of rock would just stay quite.

You Too, Hey its NBA playoff time and my Bulls are on their way!!!! GO D Rose!!!! he was at Obama fund raiser last night.

Considering that President Obama's mother is an American Citizen it does not Matter 'where' he was born anyways, he is STILL an American Citizen. And besides, considering how hard the right tried to get him disqualified based on their lies and the investigations and subsequent court cases tossed out the Birther nonsense very very quickly.

The Birther lies are NOT ones that people are going to believe just because they keep hearing it, they only believe it because it fits right in with their BIGOTRY!

Hi Auntie:

You have summed it up real nice like. The GOP/TP is on the path to create a "Class Based Society" where we will have just 2 classes. Those that have and those that never will.

Yeah - and you'll be able to call the roll in the have class in a matter of seconds!

Has anyone explained the very difficult meaning of minority and majority to you guys?

jolly, it did not seem to matter to the GOP about being in a minority and filibustering a record number, over 400, bills, most of them ones that would have gotten us out of this recession much faster. The Repubs seem to think that a minority should be the ones to shut up, sit back and enjoy it, if this is so, then why did they scream, yell and lie so loudly, while blocking our economic recovery at every step for the last 2 years. And remember also, the right only has a majority in the House, NOT the Senate, and they do not hold the Presidency, so they are NOT the majority party in Government.

Oh Yeah, the GOP/TP has no idea on the math of majority/minority: Only 40% of our populace voted in the mid-terms, which means that, in all reality, they were elected by only 25% of the populace. Wait until 2012 when the Repub/TPers find out what a REAL majority is like, when they get voted out and do not even have the votes to filibuster anymore. Watch them scream Then!

If Ryan was serious, he would have recommended shutting down the hundreds of military bases around the world saving us billions. His plan is...well stupid. And I was glad to see Obama give him a verbal lashing.

bushisanidiot - If Ryan was serious, he would have recommended shutting down the hundreds of military bases around the world saving us billions. His plan is...well stupid.

The Ryan plan is very serious and very detailed. If the Democrats, who have no plan that I can even perceive, want to include the shutting down of military bases, they are welcome to propose that as an amendment.

bushisanidiot - And I was glad to see Obama give him a verbal lashing.

That certainly helped in working to a bi-partisan solution, don't you think? Here's Obama, a man without any plan, being critical of Ryan, who has a detailed plan. About the deficit, Obama basically said "Problem? What problem?". Obama's rhetoric fed the trolls on the Left, but did nothing to resolve the problems of the country.

Having read the Ryan Proposal there are very few details but a lot of talking points and the details that he does present (most from the Heritage Foundation) are flawed like the 2.8% unemployment.

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired: Having read the Ryan Proposal . . . .

Maybe you should read the bill instead.

He has a hard time reading, its from all the PMO manuals on the potato peeler on the mess deck. Dont forget to redtag the tater peeler.

I've also read the Ryan proposal/bill/plan and the numbers don't add, the charts don't jive and it is devoid of specifics where specifics are needed. It is a lot of smoke and mirrors and wishful thinking plus it would take 70 years for it to make us debt free and in the first 10 years, it adds several trillion to the deficit and the debt. To pay down our debt requires increasing revenues, cutting spending where it can be cut without causing harm and investing in the country's infrastructure, education, etc. in order to be considered serious. Ryan's plan is anything but serious but I give him credit for trying--too bad his own party made him the scapegoat.

oh right 'investing' you mean taking money from those who work, and waste it on failed ponzi schemes and socialist policies.

No. I'm talking about fixing our roads and bridges, creating a new electric distribution system, high speed rail, and energy independence research and development. All of which will create good American jobs and boost revenue.

You really are an obtuse ass.

Apparently the right seems to think that taking money from laborers who actually WORK, wasting it on Wall Street's ponzi schemes and the corporate socialism is 'investing'.

The rest of us see it as THEFT!

ted: I've heard that same old BS about 'fixing the infrastructure' for decades...we keep raising taxes, (gas taxes) and it never gets fixed...just subsidizes union thugs.

high speed rail....LOL boondoggle..what a waste of money...if it was so good we wouldn't have to subsidize it...get a clue...jackass

b:liar...who do you think actually works and makes the money you leeches want to take from us?

joe, I don't know where you live, but the gas tax here was last raised in 1989...inflation has rendered it rather thin. So thin, in fact, that the American Trucking Association is urging an increase in fuel taxes.

“The proposed increase in the federal motor fuels tax would have two immediate and tangible results,” the press release said. “The new revenues would help stabilize the Highway Trust Fund, which the Congressional Budget Office currently forecasts would require $34 billion in General Funds to prevent devastating cuts in federal highway and transit investments through FY2016.”

“The proposal would also allow Congress to move forward with a long-term reauthorization of the surface transportation program that provides the resources and policy reforms necessary to facilitate long-term economic growth.”

http://www.truckline.com/pages/article.aspx?id=824%2F{8E1C7279-ED27-4C03-B189-CEEEE26BBB12}

The ATA isn't some Liberal think tank, either. Thomas Donahue, current president of the US Chamber of Commerce was last president of the American Trucking Association.

H'mmmm?!! What was that about kool-aid again?

Bill Austin:

True and do not forget that they think women are second class citizens wanting to control their reproductive rights and declaring that Men are worth more than Women in the work place when they blocked the equal pay for equal work bill.

The GOP/TP believes in a class based society just like some of the European Countries of the 30's and 40's. It did not work then and will not work now, unless we repeal democracy. Does the GOP/TP have a bill for that yet? They seem to have one for repealing everything else. What is left???????

The GOP knows that if they give enough false information long enough, their base will believe them. This is why they always have a consistent message day after day. Of course they give this false information without supporting evidence. It's easier for their base to accept the lies rather than take the time to really understand what at hand here. I believe this is why they would support something that is not in their best interest.

Tax the wealthy! I live in NY my nephew earns 35000/year as a State park Assist. Admin. The union just settled. No wage increases or step increases thru the year 2015. He contributes 25 % to his health care it will now be 35% taking more of his pay. All I hear is sacrifice from the people in power including Corporations which run this country by buying the politicians. All this while my State law makers vote themselves as raise last year earn a 6 figure salary with all kind of perks in pay outs they receive. Sacrifice My Arse. The middle class cannot sacrifice anymore. Tax the Rich you bet. Free markets are not working. Free markets WILL NOT WORK without affective worker representation. There is too much greed and no control for the people who do not have the money to buy influence. Tax the rich you bet. A social government is all that is left. The private sector businesses rake in profits while their employees are treated like second class citizens. Pay rates fall, benefits disappear and there is no end in sight until we are reduced to a 3rd world country where 2% of the population controls 99% of the wealth. Mark my words this is where we are headed. Just look at the events taking place all around us. The working middle class is hurting. It is a difference of paying a mortgage or buying food for us to buying 80,000 dollar auto or where to take the next vacation for them. Tax the wealthy! The argument that 50% of Americans do not pay taxes is BS. They pay taxes in other forms. If they are to pay income tax then give them jobs that they earn enough to afford income taxes. $10.00/hr. Does not cut it. Also the argument that the wealthy pay all the rest of the taxes is BS. Read this:

In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2007, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.6% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one's home), the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 42.7%. Table 1 and Figure 1 present further details drawn from the careful work of economist Edward N. Wolff at New York University (2010).

May be the top 20 % should be paying 85% of the taxes...Sometimes the truth is inconvenient for some

the rich already pay most of the taxes, you should thank them for taking care of you.

waye45 - May be the top 20 % should be paying 85% of the taxes...

The top 25% now pay 86% of the taxes.

waye45 - Sometimes the truth is inconvenient for some

Like you.

They already pay more than 85% of income tax that is collected. How much more should they pay? Even if you raised taxes on the so called rich, you'll get another 748B in revenue, but when the gov't is over budget by roughly 1.7T, it is still not enough to cover the shortfall. This admistration doesn't believe that creating a business enviroment in which companies can profit is a good thing, that only the blessings of gov't are needed. Well, now that only 45.7 of the population is employed, how long will it before they come after more money from those of you who aren't rich? Obama keep calling the Bush tax rates unpaid for. That is so misleading its comical. They are only "unpaid" for if you believe all the money you earn is the gov't money first!!. But yet Obama claims he cut taxes, when all he did was renew the same rates that were in place. There were no tax cuts. Bush did cut taxes, but it wasn't just for the rich, it was for all income brackets. On another point, I find it very hard to see the claims on the leftists who think cutting federal money from Planned Parenthood as limiting "reproductive" rights of women. Roe v Wade is the law, if you want to kill your unborn baby, so be it. Just don't ask me to pay for your indescretions. Oh I forgot, there is no personal responsibility anymore, the gov't will take care of you.

Joe, they pay most of the taxes because they have most of the money. If you look at percentage rates of incomes instead of just that they pay most of the taxes, you would see that they pay a much smaller percentage.

If we say that they pay lets use 50% of all federal taxes. That is 50% of how much and by how many? verses the the other 50% of how much and divided by how many? I think I read that 400 people pay most (let us again use 50%) of the taxes and that 20% don't pay at all, that means that the US tax paying base minus 20% and minus 400 rich have income levels equal to just 400 people. A couple hundred million people earn what 400 people earn (probably less with all the deductions etc) And you think they pay their fair share.

That is why Warren Buffet sais he pays a lesser percentage than his secretary. Does he pay more in $ yes, but as a percentage of what he has he pays much less. This is exactly why we have a progressive tax rate in this country. A person making $40k a year will pay a smaller percentage (that doesn't mean that it won't hurt him) than a person making $4 million will (should) pay a higher percentage (which will not hurt them at all). But with loopholes and different tax rates for investment income, these people end up paying a much smaller percentage.

Between taxes, health insurance and 401k, I pay more than one third of my yearly salary. that doesn't leave much to live on. Do people making losts of money pay 33%. We know the answer is no!!! The top tax bracket is 35% but with loopholes, deductions, different rates for investment income, they really end up paying something like 15%. Why is that fair?

andie: nice lie...

As the data below show, incomes reported by tax returns at the high end of the income spectrum plummeted from 2007 to 2008, as did their share of the nation's income and income taxes paid. In 2008, the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 38.0 percent of all federal individual income taxes and earned 20.0 percent of adjusted gross income, compared to 2007 when those figures were 40.4 percent and 22.8 percent, respectively. Both of those figures—share of income and share of taxes paid—were their lowest since 2004 when the top 1 percent earned 19 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI) and paid 36.9 percent of federal individual income taxes.

http://www. taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

buffet is a typical liberal hypocrite...who gets most his money through capital gains....which are taxed at a lower rate...but of course he wants higher taxes for everyone else....who cannot evade taxes as easily as he does....he could write a big check to the government, but he doesn't. no surprise.

the progressive income tax is MARXIST as hell...and we didn't have it before the racist progressives (wilson) established it in the early 1900s...we did just fine before that.

Touche' Nicely done.

he was? I thought he was giving money to his union thug buddies...so they could launder more taxpayer money into the democrat party.

Nope. That was Walker and one of the KOCH brothers discussing the use of thugs last month in Wisconsin. Gov'ment hired thugs at that. And if you wanna talk money laundering lets jump in the WAY BACK machine and discuss what Tom Delay did here in Texas and got caught. They say it had somethin to do with jerry-rigging elections down in these parts.

Actually Obama gave GE stimulus money 14 times even though at the time their net worth was good. Then they laid off 18,000 employee, then they gave the Democrat Party money. Then he hired their CEO. Hows that for rapin& the taxpayers.

The devil is always in the details, Jake. You know "W" made a big deal about how he didn't do details after stealing the election in 2000. I knew then the foxes were in the hen house. THAT's when the raping of the middle class began Jake. We have endured so much shift of wealth away from us you think it must be our own fault; or that is what the far right wealthy would have us believe.

It is likely a very logical and LEGAL reason behind GE (yes a multinational Corp.) getting unecessary "help". It needs addressing so NONE of them can do LEGALLY. THAT's the point. W raped on behalf of the wealthy and Checney raped on behalf of the corporations. See how that worked.

stealing the election? you mean W was really a democrat?? LOL

no one has taken your money...the rich pay most of the taxes to take care of you...are you just ignorant or a liar?

Joe repeating that the rich pay most of the taxes is pure hyperbole. When looked at a percentage of their income, they DO NOT PAY more than the middle class. When you have most of the money you pay most of the taxes doesn't that make sense?

And how do they make their money? Do they use the roads, airports, police, fire departments? Do they benefit from the use of the United States for their business? Of course they do, but they do not want to pay for those things. They don't want to pay at all.

That is the difference between them and probably most middle class Americans. The middle class know that these things that our taxes go to pay for, benefits us all. I am far from the top and I think the Bush tax cuts should have been let to expire. I would gladly (although it would probably hurt my wallet) pay more to help this country get control of the deficit and debt, because that will help us all.

Taxes are at there lowest in atleast 50-60 years. It seems to me we had the biggest economic boom when taxes were higher, why do you think that is?

In 1986 (The GOP St. Reagan) the top tax bracket was 50%. In 1981 (also Reagan) the top bracket was 70%, and it was that since 1965. Before that it was even higher, 1964 77%. And in 1963 it was 91%, 1953 92%, 1945 94% for most of the time except during the depression tax rates for the top was for the most part over 70%.

www. taxfoundation.org/files/fed_individual_rate_history-20110323.pdf

How is it that business' were able to even function, if high taxes stifle business? I say business because we keep being told that the very rich are business' that file individually. How did this country's rich people survive paying those rates?

Also, it is interesting that the states that are historically red pay less to the fed than they get back, and historically blue states the exact opposite is true.

Wouldn't that lead one to believe that republican policies are not the best? If so wouldn't those states be less dependant on the federal government? So exactly who is taking care of who???

Are you ignorant or just a liar?

andie: so you're a liar...ok

As the data below show, incomes reported by tax returns at the high end of the income spectrum plummeted from 2007 to 2008, as did their share of the nation's income and income taxes paid. In 2008, the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 38.0 percent of all federal individual income taxes and earned 20.0 percent of adjusted gross income, compared to 2007 when those figures were 40.4 percent and 22.8 percent, respectively. Both of those figures—share of income and share of taxes paid—were their lowest since 2004 when the top 1 percent earned 19 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI) and paid 36.9 percent of federal individual income taxes.

http://www. taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

the rich pay most of the taxes, you should thank them for taking care of you.

the tax RATES may be lower...but the taxes paid are higher...there are far fewer deductions than in the past...your lies aren't working.

businesses are leaving the country...along with the jobs..haven't you noticed? why do you think caterpiller is looking to leave Illinois? couldn't be the tax rate could it?? duh.

oh and write a check to the government, put your money where your mouth is...nothing is stopping you...but you libs NEVER do that...hypocrites.

Joe, if you're going to continue to shrill please us links from legitimate web sites. Picking one of the right's leading "Taxes Are Evil" sites really speaks volumes about your lack of credibility. Try and find one that is capable of presenting all sides of the issue.

amused: and where are your links to back up your lies?

Joe, you have posted over 500 times in the past week. I went and counted them. Not ONE positive post. A LOT of name calling. You are plainly unemployed and mad or you are a paid republican shrill. Either way, ZERO credibility. You sir plainly have issues with the truth. You sir need a REAL job. Now like I said, put your tin foil hat back on as your next transmission from Faux News should arrive shortly with the next batch of lies and nonsense for you to spew. In the mean time, take a break and leave the vine to those with a brain and an opinion that they formed all by their little selves. What a troll! You gotta be proud.

Amen Claudia

Claudia:
Ditto Job1.

Claudia Bess,

Job1

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired

Ditto to all

claudia: the program is bankrupt..how hard is this? its a PONZI SCHEME...socialism always fails...thanks for bankrupting the country.

ryan's plan is the only chance to save it...I kind of hope it fails so you libs get to be repaid with useless paper...and a pain pill as your savior said....

Claudia, I'm not sure about the elderly population in Texas.....but can you run the ad in Texas also.

Thanks!

Ryan's Plan does not save Medicare. It destroys it by putting the control in the hands of Private Insurance Companies. Just look at the job the Insurance Companies have done to date with Health Insurance.
Medicare will cost seniors $6,000 more than they pay currently and their cost will continue to increase under Ryan's plan. Currently administration cost for Medicare is around 6%. These cost will escalate under
"Privatization" either lower benefits or increasing costs or more likely BOTH, until the elderly can no longer afford it and that is Ryan's agenda, to take Health Care away from seniors when they will need it he most.

they've done a great job...so why do seniors need supplemental insurance plans if medicare is SO great?

Joe, if we're really bankrupt, then why are the Republicans giving away money to the insurance companies, the corporations and the wealthy?

joe numbers. Many seniors do NOT have supplemental insurance plans; medicare is their only health insurance and if as Ryan proposes, they get a "voucher" to buy on the private market, the amount will not cover the cost so they will have no insurance and you, joe numbers, will be paying higher premiums to cover the cost of ER care for those who have no insurance just as you do now for younger uninsureds. Throw in the fact that Ryan and the GOP want to repeal HCR which guarantees that insurance cannot be cancelled if you get sick, and you have the GOPTP version of real death panels not made up ones. You might check the facts before making comments.

Joe,

When you state, ad-hoc, that "Ryan's plan is the ONLY chance to save it" shows that you have no independent thoughts of your own. No, you instead just follow the party line blidly.

Even a bunch of republicans have come out saying this plan isn't right.

If you think that this plan, the FIRST from the GOP, is the only way to go, you're delusional.

ted: so whats your plan? ryan's plan as in give the people the power instead of the government...why do you want people to be dependent upon the government?

what bunch of republicans? you mean the cheese-eating types like simpson? LOL

fielden: the republicans? don't you mean obama giving all that money to GM, chrysler, GE, the banks, etc?

Jody: since you are so concerned about numbers why didn't you post any? how many seniors have supplemental insurance? and why do they think they need it? hmmmm??

we're already paying higher costs as doctors and hospitals have to 'cost-shift' because medicare won't cover the costs of the procedures...geta clue.

as far as death panels...you mean like your savior wanting to give old people a pain pill?

you may want to check your facts before you make yourself look any more foolish.

I don't have a plan, Joe. Neither do you. You're too busy being led by the nose to have your own thoughts.

I know that medicare should not be privatized, nor medicaid, nor SS#.

I know that any real approach to fixing the deficits should include everything being on the table including tax increases. I know that defense is bloated, there are redundancies, that spending money on fixing infrastructure and energy solutions will create jobs, which will in turn create greater revenue. I know that cutting programs that help us as a whole (whether or not you like to admit it) in order to give yet a higher tax cuts to the very few is a non-starter with me.

If this fiscal situation is a dire as you say, how can you NOT CONSIDER RAISING TAXES!?!?!

ted, sure I do...Ryan's plan is a great place to start...privatize it...let people take care of themselves..unlike you I think people can take care of themselves without the government being their nanny.

your plan is to continue the failed policies of the past....those programs are PONZI SCHEMES...they cannot last...and will bankrupt the country if they are not changed.

your third paragraph puts a lie to your second one...you don't want SS or medicare or medicaid to be 'on the table' obviously

because we're taxed enough already...and increasing taxes will just tank the economy and reduce tax revenue anyway. have you thought that doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is a sign of insanity?

I did NOT say that (in my head) SS, Medicare, and Medicaid were off the table. I said that privatizing them is stupid. Vouchers at a fixed DOLLAR amount is stupid, when health costs are rising so quickly. Seniors will have to pay more and more and more for health care. They will suffer. That approach is truly unsustainable. I fully expect and support reforming these programs (means testing, lifting the contribution levels, raising eligibility ages)

We have the lowest tax rates in history (or real close to it) and the highest deficit. Any logical person can see the correlation. this is the reason I was distrustful of the TEA party to begin with. Our tax rates are histrically low.

Additionally, the tax rates have been this low for ten years. the worst ten years of job creation since the depression. Tax cuts do nothing, in my experience, to spur job growth. Nothing. If I'm wrong, prove it.

Joe,

They need supplemental insurance because Medicare only pays 80%, maybe you are too young to remember this but years ago most insurance plans paid only 80%. Medicare is not an entitlement. It is paid by contributions made a person's entire working life, then continues to be paid by the person themselves once they stop working.

Ryan's plan does nothing but hurt people and help big insurance companies. Joe, did you ever wonder why medicare was started in the first place?

How can privatizing medicare help it? Did you know that medicare advantage programs cost the government MORE than medicare. In case you don't know what that is, it is HMO's run by private insurance companies for medicare patients. These insurance companies get a subsidy to run these programs and then they get paid more than a doctor does for the same services. That is the medicare cuts that the HealthCare Act cuts. Health insurance companies have been increasing their rates for decades, all the while cutting services but somehow you think that privatizing medicare would be a good thing. Oh I see, you think they have been screwing most Americans for so long it is time that seniors get screwed too?

ted: as far as the lowest taxes in history...you mean the tax rate...not the amount collected...nice lie...oh and before the early 1900s we didn't have income taxes....but don't let facts get in the way of your ideology...you libs never do.

we have the highest deficit because your savior is trying to bankrupt the country...cloward-priven anyone? never let a crisis go to waste!!!

as far as unsustainable...do you really think we can pay the 100 TRILLION or so of unfunded liabilities that SS and medicare have given us?? PULEAZE.

oh yeah that 5% unemployment under bush was just AWFUL wasn't it? yeah things are SO much better now...LOL things were fine until the DEMOCRATS took over congress

andie: medicare is an entitlement...you don't get your own money back...but money from young working people...get a clue.

yeah I know why medicare was started in the first place...because democrats want to make a class of people dependent upon the government so they vote for the party of government...democrats. medical care used to be affordable in this country...before medicare kicked off a round of inflation and price increases in the medical field that far outstripped the rest of the economy.

privatizing helps because people are empowered not the government...like with bush's prescription drug program...which costs LESS than budgeted, unlike medicare. but then people like you want the government to control people's lives.

Go ahead and spend us into the depths of hell!!!!

yeah just like you did with prosser huh? LOL without your union thug money things are going to be much harder for you regressive 'progressives'

Don't worry, be happy.

I am happy...seeing all the union thugs getting upset about losing their plush pensions and bennies...brings a smile to my face.

Many at first, were also happy in Nazi Germany.

yeah I can see why people like you would be happy in nazi germany

Joe = Jealous, angry hater, wanna be, never gonna be!!!!!!

Joe is not a good reader. Proof that there is an education problem in the U.S.

j: the only jealous angry haters I've seen are the union thugs..

job: yeah you're proof that public education is a failure...but then democrats like them uneducated and easily led as you prove with every post....

Joe,

You don't have ANY family or freinds that are union? Why do you have to attach "thug" to hard working union people.

They don't get anything free. They work for their benifits, which were negotiated in good faith and agreed upon in broad daylight.

If you don't have the same perks in your gig, maybe you should go find employment in a good union environement.

ted: no, they're a shrinking minority of workers. as far as gettting things free...come on...union rules...10 people to screw in a lightbulb...LOL

and we're tired of paying for the union thugs to have their cushy jobs and plush lifestyle...time they started working for a living.

I see you threw the "LOL" in there. Obviously even you can swallow the hogwash you're selling. What's cushy or plush about 40,000 grand a year? What do you have against these PEOPLE. yes their people like you and me. They, like you, go out in the world and find the cushiest job they can find, to have the plushest lefestyle they can attain.

If you're so unhappy with YOUR situation. Change it. quit hating on others.

ted: the public union thugs, and the private union thugs make far more than their private sector counterparts, or non-unionized counterparts. why should taxpayer money be given to the UAW? which is what obama did.

what I have against them, lets start with the public sector union thugs....they get their plush lifestyle at MY expense...why should they get better benefits than I have?

as far as the private union thugs, they've ruined every industry they touch...and they are getting taxpayer money to fund their bankrupt pensions.

why do you hate people who want to keep a little more of their own money to take care of their kids? why do you hate children so?

If you think that blue-collar workers; hard workers that do alot of physical labor taking care of your cities, roads, and all the dirty work you don't want to do is plush, then I don't know what to tell ya. I don't know how you make the correlation that their at 'Your expense' they work for thier money, and hard.

My Moma once told me "don't argue with fools, 'cause people from a distance can't tell who is who..."

On that note, off to buy my new car! A good American made, union thug built Chevy Cruze!

Job1......you need a reality pill dude. You are not anywhere near the mainstream sentament of the average VOTING American. You ar FRINGE.

ted: you prove there's a sucker born every minute!! LOL

Chevy Cruze vehicles recalled after steering wheel falls off.

Happened on one car. GM proactively recalled to ensure the quality of thier product. More than we can say for some other Car Company mistakes....

Richard, You also can't "Give" your way out of TROUBLE. Lately it's been "Give And Spend" !!!!!!!!!