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In a House Oversight and Government Reform Committee hearing exploring state and municipal debt, Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) challenged Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker (R) to admit his legislative campaign aimed at stripping public employees’ collective bargaining rights did nothing to help solve his state’s budget deficit.
"If the unions agreed to the financial cuts you demand," Kucinich told Walker, "I don't understand how repealing collective bargaining rights for public workers shows us anything about state debt."
The longtime Ohio congressman accused Walker of politicizing an important state fiscal debate and claimed his legislation impacting unions saved no money whatsoever. Citing a document published by the Wisconsin Legislative Fiscal Bureau asserting that Walker’s efforts to the repeal the rights of state workers were non-fiscal, Kucinich briefly clashed with committee chairman Darrell Issa (R-CA), when he asked for unanimous consent to have the document included as part of the official record.
Issa said, while "we fully expect to include it in the record," he reserved the right to object to the document until it had been vetted by committee members. That outraged Kucinich.
"In the 14 years I've been on the committee," Kucinich said, "I've never had a chairman reserve the right to object to a document that is central to this hearing. It's a political issue!"
Kucinich continued his assault on Walker and other Wisconsin Republicans, blaming them for the $137 million budget shortfall that roused this entire debate. Wisconsin allowed their estate tax to expire on Jan. 1, 2008. Kucinich argued that had Wisconsin not let the estate tax expire, the revenue that would have been collected from wealthy estates would have totaled enough to cover the $137 million deficit. Concluding his questioning, Kucinich did thank Gov. Walker in the hearing -- if only backhandedly.
"Gov. Walker has done an inadvertent public service -- by exposing the mindset that is privatizing government and bringing the public sphere to the forefront. Is government going to be auctioned off to the highest bidder? To corporations who drive up the cost of government and services?"
Arguing that his reforms went a long way in protecting the middle class and the average Wisconsin worker, Walker said that he would never speak "an ill-word on any of these decent public workers," and that his measures protected public sector employees from massive layoffs. The budget deficit, he said, left him with a choice between making these reforms or handing out pink slips to thousands of public sector employees -- a choice he contends was relatively easy.
"If I have to choose between making these massive layoffs and making reforms," said Walker, "I'm going to choose those reforms."
Walker also asserted the unions were consistently unreasonable in negotiations, rejecting proposal after proposal. While Walker admitted that unions agreed to the measures impacting direct contributions to public employee pensions and raising their health insurance premiums, he maintained they failed to rein in local unions across the state. In the weeks that followed the initial negotiations, Walker said his administration quickly discovered state union leaders could not speak for the rest of the state as local unions settled their contracts without including increased health-care or pension contributions.
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So is Kucinich "winning?"
I wonder if anyone will ever challenge Brown and all the good efforts out here in Cali?
I suspect not, cause we got it all under control out heree in libbie paradise.
Man that guy is irrelevant.
Kucinich will do anything for publicity. No one pays any attention to his little behind so he shouts and screams.....lol........."Follow the Yellowbrick Road" Look at Kucinich..........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31EydOVS4no
Didn't Kucinich claim he was abducted by aliens??
Imagine if an intelligent life form from other planets thought this moron was representative of all human life??
I wouldn't blame them one bit for blowing up the planet.
You can slam Kucinich if you want to, but he made it clear to Walker what everybody else already knows and that is that Walker is a liar.
I wonder how much experience Walker had negotiating with unions before becoming governor. None or very little. He makes it sound as if he has years and years experience of bargaining and negotiating with unions. He doesn't! He was given his marching orders by his 'union bosses', the Koch brothers and corporate America. The sad part is that his lies are so obvious, yet some who will be most damaged by his lies still support him.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/walker-state-layoffs-could-happen-if-anti-union-bill-remains-delayed-by-courts.php
Just so’s you’ll know Governor Walker still seems to think he was somehow appointed king of Wisconsin and the rule of law doesn’t apply to him or his minions. I have a sneaking hunch that he’s going to keep on playing these silly games till the judge puts his staff behind bars or you’ll out there recall him whichever comes first
I think the more likely happenstance is that most people will roll over and soldier on, accepting the loss of their bargaining rights, while a vocal minority continue to cry bloody murder.
It's that damned reality TV, man. That damned reality TV.
Nah ED the old Judge has warned him already a couple of times. You know how it is with some folks though they just can't be happy especially if they ain't the one that has to do the time. Been my experiance in my limited legal dealings that the last thing a smart fellow does if he wants some favorable consideration is to poke at the Judge
Then he won't be winning any bonus points any time soon, that's for dang sure.
I say put him and his cronies behind bars for many years to come.
Bravo, Dennis Kucinich. It's about time someone questioned Walker on the facts instead of the fantasy. Darryl Issa brought Walkter to testify as an example of how to fix budgets. Well, fix must mean something different to republicans because adding $121 million to the debt with tax cuts for big business and the rich doesn't fix anything in everyone else's dictionary. Union-busting along with "starving the beast" has been the unspoken GOP agenda since Reagan began it. Trouble is, the 2010 elections, gave republicans a sense of empowerment that led them to think the time was exactly right to do away with unions--and the GOP Governors' coordinated effort to end collective bargaining began out in the open. Trouble is that Walker, Kasich, Scott, Snyder, Christie, Branstad over-reached, over-played their hand and in the process awakened the sleeping giant.
Just like 2006 and 08 gave the Democrats a sense of empowerment. You can't seem to see it when it is your party.
I Second your emotion, Jody!
Dennis was truly 'The Menace!.........Walker got singed, and rightfully so. Issa tried without success to silence Dennis and protect Walker.......
Didn't happen!
@Jody
Yeah, nothing like a Federal government official who was part of the legislative that ran up a deficit of $1.5T lecture a state official on a 137M deficit.
The irony, of course, being the tax increase sited in the article, the expiration of the estate tax, as causing the budget shortfall happened with the democrats controlling the senate and the governor's office. The republicans did hold a 5 seat majority in the legislature but I find it difficult to believe they were the sole reason the tax was allowed to expire.
Really?! What's the matter with those "union bosses," anyway? Is it just possible that teachers and other public workers actually have local autonomy, and that the whole myth of union "bosses" is inapplicable in the public sector?
Or does Walker just need something to justify his power grab?
And for Issa to "clash" with anyone over the introduction into the official committee record a public document created by a neutral state office whose job it is to compile such documents ... just because he doesn't like the contents ... well, that just goes to show.
As I said yesterday, you always know these guys but what they're for and what they're against, and what they'll change their minds over, whenever it's expedient.
Hey AM you know who has unfettered and free reign to negotiate away pensions, benefits and salary?
All the totally awesome and terrific public employee unions out here. Heck, looks like they are staging a big rally and sit in soon - just like your guys.
Should be great. Now I know your position is Wisconsin is not broke, and any deficit is because of Walker's tax cuts, but what about out here?
We are in the HOLE for a whole bunch. You think we ought to be doing anything to reign them in. or shall we just let them continue?
You think Wisconsin could ever get in as bad of a debt situation as Cali?
And say, where Trumka? Kinda been MIA lately.
Spanky, no point in trying to get anywhere with AM. She will successfully argue both sides of this one to reach the same conclusion. First it's that Walker went too far because the unions agreed to the concessions, now it's of course the unions never agreed to the concessions, only the leadership did. Either way, she wins. A legend in her own mind.
Suzy ~ You've just proven my point, while at the same time demonstrating that you don't know a thing about how teachers' unions and municipal workers' unions work, at least in Wisconsin, which is what Walker is talking about. They don't HAVE centralized bosses that agree on anything for everyone, the way a state workers' union might, and even then, there are several state workers' unions. No one boss, and no one union, speaks for all the workers. There are as many local unions in Wisconsin as there are school districts and municipalities, and sometimes several in each.
Which is what makes Spanky's snark about Trumka totally irrelevant.
As for being a legend in YOUR own mind, res ipsa loquitur.
All well and good AM but who is winning in Wisc.?
Walker, because it's all about concession - and I see several of the unions have totally concede the points so they could get their contracts passed - no wage or benefit increases, just more dues-or those poor union members that just got sold out so the unions could maintain their dues?
And in the end, looks like Prosser won, that the only remaining debate is how much to cut. So kinda looks like that "giant" that was awoken didn't do too much or has gone back to sleep.
Which is it AM?
And gosh but Trumka sure seems to be steering clear of the white house, although the logs have many blanks.
AM, the the individual members of each of the various unions elect people to represent the membership at large, do they not? You know, people who run the meetings, represent the whole body at the negotiating tables, communicate the status of said negotiations back to the whole group, that sort of thing. At least in common vernacular, those folks are referred to as the leadership.
That is correct each and every member of the local union votes on their union officers. Contracts are negotiated between the employer or his bargaining agent, and the local union the collective bargaining agent for the members, when a proposed contract is offered the rank and file membership vote to accept or reject the contract. No business representative for a union can say what his members will or will not accept the members have to vote on any proposed contract.
Yes, and I was one of those "leaders" in my local union. But that's not the same as a "boss" and any suggestion that it is is just plain misinformed and misguided. Even the head of Wisconsin's state teacher organization is a working teacher/librarian who mostly volunteers her time, and believe me, she is no "boss." The state organization supports, but does not speak for, local unions in their contract negotiations or in disputes with their school districts. That's up the membership as a whole, and not to the local leadership. Things are done by voting, as a representative democracy.
Forrest Grump is absolutely right, and you and Spanky, and all the other misinformed conservatives out here are absolutely wrong. The part you conveniently miss is the part about the VOTE.
Maybe that's because republicans keep trying to convince you that you don't need a vote -- like in Michigan, where they've just taken self-determination away from all local units of government.
I'll take socialism over totalitarianism any six days of the week.
And, Spanky, as for who's winning in Wisconsin, I suppose that depends on what you consider the "game" to be. If things truly turn out as you describe, we'll all lose, and that includes, eventually, YOU.
Good luck in your Brave New World, Spanky, that has such people as Scott Walker in't.
AM I think your bias against anything said by anyone who has ever dared express an opinion different than yours is showing. I said exactly what Grump did. That there was never a vote of the membership during the time so many in leadership positions were claiming the unions agreed to the concessions but there was never a vote of the membership. You keep insisting I wrong but then telling me all the reasons what I said was exactly right. Is it a lawyer thing or am I always going to be wrong because you just don't like my perspective?
They may have indicated to leadership that they would be willing to accept concessions but they were never presented with a contract proposal from the employer to vote on. Can't vote on a contract offer that does not exist. I beleive everybody is working under their current contracts, and Walker has not saved a dime. He had them in a negotiaing position were they were willing to accept cuts, but he was deceitful about the fact that it was about the budget. He could have dropped the bargaining rights issue and offered a contract proposal with his cuts and he probably would have gotten it.
No, you didn't. You tried to suggest that the leadership is making decisions for the rank-and-file, which is exactly the opposite of Forrest's point.
And somehow you think YOU'RE not biased? LoL
No, I said there was a claim made that concessions were agreed to but there was never a vote. As in because membership was never officially asked the question, they were never able to give an answer. I never mentioned word one about union bosses, just leadership.
Well, not totally true. What I said was first you would argue two sides of the same story to reach a single conclusion. Which you've handily proven correct . No worries, though, I work with lawyers so I'm used to your style.
Never said I wasn't biased, but I do generally try to read what was written before declaring someone wrong. I've even agreed with you publicly on a couple of occasions. Sorry About the hives that probably gave you, hope they've healed up by now.
Reform is not in the unions vocabulary. They would rather let the employees that they supposedly represent take a hit before they would ever consider reform.
You keep using the word reform. Can you explain what you mean by the word? The unions AGREED to ALL the governor"s fiscal demands and he still stripped them of their collective bargaining rights.
I am talking about California, and I don't believe State workers should be unionized.
You keep talking like the union and the employees are two different things. All union members elect their local union officers from their own rank and file members. All members vote on any proposed contract, the union oficers can't make the members work under the terms of any contract they do not wish to ratify or force them to reject any offer they vote to accept. It is a far more democratic process than the Walker administration. This is the way local unions work, this is the truth, and I will type this out it as many times as it takes to educate people who have formed their entire concept of unions from watching an episode of the Sopranos. Those teachers they are not thugs, they are not controlled by organized crime, if they were Scott Walker would be sleeping with the fishes by now.
Good for you, Forrest. Good for you. This is making me very, very tired.
Me too Anna, maybe I am getting too old to be a union thug. Aw come on sometimes you just gotta laugh a little.
If you knew me, you'd know that I laugh my share, Forrest.
But thanks for all the fishes. That helped. ;-)
Typical Walker. He knows the GOP control all three branches of government in Wisconsin and he will do whatever he wants.
I wonder if how long it will be before Walker forces the state into contracts that double pay for services?
That's what he did before leaving Milwaukee County. Nothing like a Walker to make sure his supporters receive millions and the middle class is kicked out of their homes.
Reminds me of Obama the last 2 year, but instead of running and hiding, the GOP at least fought some legislation with "fake filibusters". Too bad Reid didn't have the nads to make them filibuster. I would have liked to have seen one:)
So why exactly is the federal government questioning the sovereign state of Wisconsin about its business?
BG,
Chairman Issa invited the good Gov. to talk to the committee as a positive example of bringing government expenses under control. it looks to me as though Rep Kucinich is simply trying to make sure all sides of the issue are examined.
Jim Indy - Interesting take. Looks more like Mr. Kucinich is carrying the unions water for them, his berating of Walker seems scripted. And it also looks like Mr. Kucinich is trying to get a 30 second sound bite on the evening news, or a guest appearance on an msnbc talkie show.
Kucinich is only trying to get his 5 minutes of air time. BTW why are the liberals in congress so concerned about the union members right to collective bargaining in Wisconsin when Federal Employee unions do not have collective bargaining rights, it's all about politics.
If Kucinich is going to be a water carrier I want to see his union card. Ha Ha HA you like that one boys!
Anna,
There may be local autonomy in Wisconsin, but those folks still make as much if not more than the actual governor.
maciverinstitute.com/2011/02/labor-leaders-living-large/
Just a quick note: Marty Beil is 64 and Gov. Walker is 41, so why is it surprising that with 20 more years experience, Mr. Beil should have a larger salary? Is the governor of Wisconsin supposed to have the largest salary of everyone in the state?
Beil is a union leader, taking money from hard working Wisconsinites. And President Obama makes less as President than his buddy at GE.
The problem isn't so much the head of the union making a little more, but the fact the entire office makes 6 figures while the Wisconsin state employees, with benefits, make about 1/2 of that. But I say, let Wisconsin take of Wisconsin, sooner or later people are going to realize that all paid representatives only work for themselves, not those they represent.
Big Bear- one of my favorite little-published notes on Walker- during his years as Milwaukee County Executive, he gave back salary dollars every single year. It was something like 46% of his salary the first 6 years and $10k each of the last 2. Amounted to over $300k during his 8 years.
@Suzy, I'm not able to find any documentation regarding your claim in #7.3. Can you please provide a link?
You won't because it's probably another teapug lie. When have you ever known a teapug to give money back?
Claim: “From 2002 through 2010, Scott and Tonette Walker have given back over $370,000 of his salary to the county.”
Reality: Walker likes to brag that he returns a portion of his salary to the county to show that he’s frugal. But in 2004, a campaign rival noted that despite Walker’s claims of returning some salary, he was still drawing his pension and benefits on his full salary
http://www.expressmilwaukee.com/article-11501-fact-checking-scott-walker.html
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2010/oct/06/scott-walker/gop-governor-candidate-scott-walker-says-he-has-gi/
Do you really, seriously, think that impresses me Big Bear, when the retiring BOSS of Wisconsin's BUSINESS UNION, called Wisconsin Manufacturers and Commerce, made $341,000 last year, including $97,800 in EMPLOYER-PAID benefits?
http://host.madison.com/ct/business/biz_beat/article_8595d11a-45bd-11e0-82bf-001cc4c002e0.html
Now, if conservatives like you don't think that YOU all pay for these BOSSES' salaries and benefits whenever you buy a widget or a loaf of bread, or use the ATM machine, then you're just blinder than a bat.
And here's how the same BUSINESS UNION BOSS, drawing HIS six-figure salary, describes his own vision for Wisconsin workers under Walker's leadership --
http://host.madison.com/ct/business/biz_beat/article_98606c30-4511-11e0-9f5e-001cc4c03286.html
You can't make this up, Big Bear. What a vision for growth -- all those $30,000 a year jobs that can be taxed to pay off the deficit -- presumably so that Walker's wealthy cronies can continue to enjoy all those tax breaks that the legislature is busy handing to them --
Just warms your heart, doesn't it?
Nope. Your numbers don't impress me AT ALL.
Top union officers ( business manager, financial secretary, treasurer, and president) operate in about the same capacity as a CEO, CFO and president of a corporation. They are responsible for all the business and holdings and accounts of the local union. Their salaries are determined by the by-laws and constitution of the local union, which is all voted on and determined by rank and file members. Most of these officers put in 50 - 70 hours a week. If they were doing the same job in the private sector you would be fine with them getting multi-million dollar bonus checks, then it's just the free market doing its thing.
All of that is true, with the addition that all of Big Bear's numbers apply to people who lead large, state-wide unions. On the local level, the officers volunteer their time and MAYBE got a small stipend to help with expenses, if there is money available. Local unions by and large run themselves and they run their own contract negotiations. We hired our own lawyers when we needed them. But local unions can't do everything, and that's why the mothership is also important. Having been a member of a union that actually detached itself from one state organization, was independent for a while, and eventually joined another organization, I speak from experience when I say that nobody at the state level ever "bossed" us around. Quite the contrary, in fact.
Oh man... Did she seriously just refer to the national as the "mothership"? If that doesn't speak volumes about the union mindset...
Union busting has become a national Republican obsession. It's popping up in state after state. In Maine, the Governor even took down a "union mural" hanging in their state capital. In Wisconsin the unions AGREED to Walkers fiscal demands and he still pressed ahead with stripping them of their collective barganing rights. Unions have historically sided with Democratic candidates. This is just a veiled attempt to strip them of their political power. Seems to have backfired in Wisconsin with all the attempts at recall elections. Plan B????/
May I fix your moonbat post?
"Union [shilling] has become a national [Democrat] obsession. In Maine, the taxpayers were fleeced for 70k for an ugly union shill painting which actually included the local Dem Labor Secretary in the mural. In Wisconsin the thuggish leftist unions tactics have backfired; they lost a recent judicial election, but rely upon activist judges to thwart the will of the people. Unions have [gotten in bed] with Democrats.
That is better, more factual.
Any answers for California? The unions are running the show here.
thetotas
Any answers for California? The unions are running the show here.
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From a publication published by the Heritage Foundation called "THE FOUNDRY". The Foundry promotes conservative policies and principles.....blah, blah. Your comment was based on a guest bloggers opinion and NOT fact. The article was entitled..Guest Blogger: In California Unions Are The Government
Why is there so much jealousy about how much everyone makes? s
Man I watched a little of Ed Shultz last night. That dude is terrible. Why is he even on T.V.?
He is no better than Glen Beck. I could only watch for a few. He was on there with those runaway Dems from Wisconsin and pumping their heads up with BS. They think they are sitting on top of the world.
The one old kat that has been in office uncontested for 60yrs (exaggerated) was funny. "In all my years and tears and fears I have never seen anything like this budget". C'mon man you have been there since Taft was POTUS and this is the worst......
California is a perfect example why public unions should not exist.
Unfortunately, the hearing is all a bit of theater and short on substance. Why should Gov. Walker, who has been in office 100 days, be an expert on reforming state budgets? Why not call in Gov. Pawlenty? or Gov. Daniels? or Gov. Rick Perry, all of them Republicans with more time in office, who have worked with legislators and who have actually seen some of the fruition of their work?
Tell that to Issa the teapug chair of the cmte. He's the one who invited him to spread the teapug manifesto on how to strip public employees of their rights.
I still don't see how Gov Walker can take away free speech. I mean the supreme court ruled that money is the same as speech and now corporations can give as much 'speech' as they want to influence politics. And the companies take this money from their shareholders to do it, I don't think they get written permission from all shareholders everytime they make a political contribution. How is this any different? Why can't the right stay consistent on one friggen issue without making exceptions for themselves. Big govt is bad...unless it is invading a foriegn country, bailing out a big business, or telling women what to do with their bodies. What hypocrites...
Well they aren't for the bail out of all big business. GM and Chrysler were bailed out and the right was all in a fuss about that! But with the auto industry bail out UAW (United Auto Workers) benefitted so maybe they are for just businessses that don't have unions attached to them like financial institutions.
Walker said that he would never speak "an ill-word on any of these decent public workers," and that his measures protected public sector employees from massive layoffs.
Yup, that's right in his narrow crossed eyes he thinks so. It matters not what he said to the fake Koch brother on the phone. Hey what was he gonna do with that baseball bat?
Scott Walker is a Koch brothers lap dog and he has egg all over his face.
You go Dennis Call him out every time.
Bev, Walkers' eyes have no sign of life!...
..............not compassionate life anyway!
Strange, very strange!
what are you idiots talking about? Put your abused substance of choice down please.
Bev, I may have missed it...what was the result of the recent Wisconsin judicial election, again?
The one you said would show how the unions have won the people, and all that?
You seem to be obsessed with the Wisconsin Governor's eyes...
Thank you Mr. Dennis Kucinch for telling the TRUTH!!!
Scott Walker is full of CRAP!!!! and a paid slave to the rich!
TRUTH - not CRAP.
We will call out the liars of the GOP/TP for their misrepresentations and deceits!
Thank you and GOD BLESS AMERICA
So I must be confused? This cat cut 1.25 billion out public schools because of a 137 million deficit? Surely him and that new weenie in Florida are some kinda really close blood kin. The beauty of Georgia politics is that we know nearly all elected officials are the products of incest. They are not qualified to run for statewide office until they worship each and every corporate demon. We need all the company we can get here in the land of corruption. SEIG HEIL TO KING NEWT
Democrat Soldier;
Good to see you posting again.
I hoping they find something on Walker and that he goes to jail.
thetotas
Any answers for California? The unions are running the show here.
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From a publication published by the Heritage Foundation called "THE FOUNDRY". The Foundry promotes conservative policies and principles.....blah, blah. Your comment was based on a guest bloggers opinion and NOT fact. The article was entitled..Guest Blogger: In California Unions Are The Government. Any original ideas based in fact? I'm thinking not. You're like the guy who reads the headline or a paragraph and skips the rest of the story.
I live it everyday.
The guys needs to be kicked out of office. He has only one agenda, and that is to make the Koch brothers happy. No matter that it hurts the rest of Wisconsin.
Good for you Dennis. Don't let the teapugs get by with anything. Call them out for their lies and malfeasance.
He has also started a Campaign to allow a recall of Gov. Rick Scott in Florida. Moveon.org emailed a petition this morning which I gladly signed.
I had actually wondered what had taken so long to get in started.
Rick Scott made a sudden announcement that he had all of a sudden had a buyer for all of his shares in his Solantic Walk-In-Clinics. Right out of the woodwork came a buyer. All he did was form another Corporation under another Principles name. My ex-husband had done then same exact thing when he was about to be charged with fraud. Then he signed another Confidential agreement that all interest would revert back to him once charges were dropped. I'm almost positive that Rick Scott has dome the exact same thing.
I'll bet it states that once Rick Scott's term as Governor ends, all interest in Solantic will revert back to him. Who does he think he's kidding. Once a fraud, always a fraud.
Walker was wrong and I'm glad that Kucinich called him out on it. The same needs to be with all the Governors who are doing similiar things in their states. How stupid do they think we are? Those who can be recalled should be recalled.
Recall Jerry Brown!
The Progressives in Wisconsin know all about "Whacky Walker's" political record, and he is no political friend of the Middle Class. He sold his social soul to the Koch Brothers a long time ago, and now he will be paying the bill with a smile. "Whacky Walker" has no intention of supporting the working people of Wisconsin however, his economic friends are making out like bandits. Does this sound like economic greed America?? This individual was thinking about sending out political thugs out to take on the protester in Madison. Does this look like the crushing of the Freedom of Speech and to assemble peacefully America?? Giving Government jobs to unqualified individuals who, are great "Whacky Walker" economic contributors. Does this smell of favoritism America?? "Whacky Walker' has no intention of reducing the deficit in Wisconsin. He does have a radical right wing agenda. That is happily supported by the Koch Brothers. His agenda is not new or creative. Instead it is "Whacky Walker" wanting to get his politcal way at the economic expense of the hard working citizens of Wisconsin. Sorry America! "Richie Rich Ryan" escaped from Wisconsin, and is now spewing his "Whacky Walker" Economic Plan around Washington. He is like the Cognitively Disabled GOP Cousin, that at times, comes up with no new thoughts at all. He thinks his ar thoughts are new however, his grip on economic reality is very scary. "Richie Rich Ryan" just loves to copy the economically, socially, and poltically debt ridden policies of "Brainless Bush." Getting ready to vote yet America?? I hope so!