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Subscribe to RSSHours until tonight’s deadline, many are acting as if the spending standoff has become a Kennedy-Khrushchev-like showdown… And it’s ridiculous… But remember: It often looks the most ridiculous before the deal… The latest developments and the latest sticking points… Waiting for Superman (er, President Obama)… Our next crisis: the debt ceiling… The danger of misreading your mandate… A gray backlash over Medicare?... And Prosser retakes the lead -- big time -- in Wisconsin.
From NBC's Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, Domenico Montanaro, and Ali Weinberg
*** On the brink: From the look of things, many are acting as if we’re in the midst of a modern-day Kennedy-vs.-Khrushchev showdown. But instead of a standoff over nuclear missiles in Cuba, Democrats and Republicans are on the brink of a government shutdown over the difference of a few billion dollars, Planned Parenthood, and abortions in Washington, DC. (We somehow missed how Planned Parenthood was an issue in last year’s midterms. We also somehow missed the complaints when Dems voted for previous legislation with a DC abortion funding ban.) It’s all ridiculous -- something which House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer acknowledged on “TODAY” this morning. But just like it’s always darkest before dawn, it always looks the most ridiculous before the deal. The question Dem and GOP lawmakers need to ponder: Are they really going to shut down the federal government over $300 million for Planned Parenthood? That’s what the debate has really come down to.
*** The latest developments: Per NBC’s Kelly O’Donnell, aides from both parties say the top negotiators -- including the chiefs of staff to Boehner and Reid -- worked at the Capitol until 3:00 am ET without a deal. They expect to begin again around 8:00 am and expect to notify the president about their status at "mid morning." He asked to know by noon. Dem sources, O’Donnell adds, say there is "no movement on "Title X," the government funding name for health centers like Planned Parenthood. Republicans say talks stalled an impasse largely over the size of cuts -- and their composition. Both sides agree "there has been some narrowing on the riders."
*** “Further along today than we were yesterday”: After last night’s Obama-Boehner-Reid meeting, President Obama gave these remarks to cameras, “I’m not yet prepared to express wild optimism. But I think we are further along today than we were yesterday.” Also, Boehner and Reid released a JOINT statement: “We have narrowed the issues; however, we have not yet reached an agreement. We will continue to work through the night to attempt to resolve our remaining differences.” Obama has since canceled today’s visit to Indiana, and his family’s trip to Williamsburg, VA is now TBD. Roll Call is reporting that he won’t cut a final deal with Obama and Reid until he has vetted it with his GOP members at their conference meeting at noon ET. What we’re hearing from the White House is that riders like things over abortion are the outstanding differences, while Republicans insist it’s over the dollar amount. But this is not about money. As with the health-care law, this is all about the culture war.
*** Waiting for Superman: The Beltway narrative on the budget showdown has turned to Obama’s leadership. The Washington Post’s Balz asks, “Is he too slow to react? Is he diffident in the face of serious challenges? Is he reluctant to exercise the full powers of the presidency? Would events have turned out differently had he moved with greater force earlier?” And here’s Politico: “Republicans have hit President Barack Obama for being out of touch, disengaged and unwilling to lead on the budget negotiations — and Democrats aren’t wild about his taste for last-minute heroics either.” Of course, over the past two years, this narrative has popped up time and time again. Over the health-care legislation (which passed). The economy (which is improving). The BP spill (which was stopped). The tax-cut deal (which passed). Egypt (which saw a relatively peaceful transfer of power). Libya (which so far has not). And now this budget fight (whose outcome is undetermined). Once this story ends -- whenever that occurs -- we’ll move to the next crisis. But at what point do members of Congress need to take responsibility for what happens in their chambers?
*** The next crisis: the debt ceiling: And that next crisis, by the way, will probably be over raising the debt ceiling. And if you thought this spending fight has been tough to resolve, just wait until we reach that battle later this year. In our latest NBC/WSJ poll, only 16% say the debt ceiling should be raised, versus 46% who say it shouldn’t; 38% say they don’t know enough. But when respondents were told that failing to raise the debt ceiling would make the government unable to pay its bills and that the government would default on its debt payments, that 16% moved up to just 32%. Meanwhile, 62% said the ceiling SHOULD NOT be raised because doing so would make it harder to get the nation’s financial house in order. And then get ready for the 2012 budget fight this fall…
*** Misreading your mandate: Looking at the current spending fight -- as well as the House GOP effort to phase out Medicare -- National Journal’s Charlie Cook makes this point: “One of the biggest and most frequent mistakes in politics is for a party to misread its mandate. When it happens, independent and swing voters get angry and punish a candidate or a party on Election Day. Because American politics is a zero-sum game, punishing one party means rewarding the other party—even when the latter is not necessarily deserving of support. Frequently, the party that benefits from the spanking mistakenly interprets it to mean that the public is embracing every aspect of its agenda. Republicans shouldn’t forget that their party had dismal favorable/unfavorable poll ratings last fall. They won because they weren’t Democrats.”
*** A gray backlash? And in his weekly National Journal column, Ron Brownstein explains why Republicans trying to touch Medicare is so potentially perilous for the GOP in 2012. “Republicans won about three-fifths of white seniors in both the 2008 presidential and 2010 House elections, and they now hold 99 of the 150 House districts with the highest proportion of the elderly. A gray backlash could cost them dearly (especially if President Obama, Clinton-like, successfully links the GOP tax-cut and Medicare proposals).” Brownstein also notes that this is the FIFTH time since 1980 that Republicans “have followed an electoral breakthrough by attempting to restructure Medicare or Social Security.”
*** Prosser takes back the lead: Meanwhile, in Wisconsin’s still-undecided state Supreme Court race, conservative David Prosser has regained the lead -- big time. The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reports: “Waukesha County Clerk Kathy Nickolaus said Thursday that she failed to save on her computer and then report 14,315 votes in the city of Brookfield, omitting them entirely in an unofficial total she released after Tuesday's election. With other smaller errors in Waukesha County, Prosser gained 7,582 votes over his challenger, JoAnne Kloppenburg, leaving the sitting justice significantly ahead for now amid ongoing official counting.” And it was all because Nickolaus said she forgot to hit save on her computer. Wow.
Countdown to continuing resolution’s expiration: midnight ET
Countdown to NY-26 special election: 46 days
Countdown to Iowa GOP straw poll: 126 days
Countdown to Election Day 2011: 214 days
Countdown to the Iowa caucuses: 304 days
* Note: When the IA caucuses take place depends on whether other states move up
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GOP TEA Obstructionism has put us on the brink
Republican agenda for America’s failure is on track:
Loss of Jobs… “So Be It.”
Economic Disaster… “We’re hoping on it.”
Dumb Down Education… “Who needs it?”
Kill the Small Business… “They love us anyway, so who cares.”
Crush Tourism… “What’s there to see anyway?”
These are just a few consequences that will occur when Government shuts down. And that is what the Republicans want. They have said it themselves, “I hope Obama fails.” Welcome to the Republican States of America, where segregation is status quo and sheer meanness is our regular business.
And the media eats it up. How does a news segment give 5-7 minutes to the Donald and his birther nonsense… because they support the message to keep things off-balanced. When I watch certain news casts, I see nothing but spin and support for Radicals and Extremists that have no desire to see America succeed. But that is the reality we live in, where everything is driven by money.
But there is hope in spite of the dope peddled by the pimps from the Right. There are people such as those that cannot be manipulated by the message and fight the good fight.
In the words of my dear old mama, "The mind is like a parachute, it doesn't work unless it's open."
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
So how’s that "Sleeping Giant" you Libs keep babbling about doing in Wisconsin? Looks like he’s dozed off again.
Source: http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/119410124.html
Source: http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/119451699.html
And while we're at it Libs, lets not forget that war going on in Libya! That noose get tightened yet?
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/u-general-sees-no-military-outcome-libya-20110407-235213-279.html
Great post Louis. Where are the adults in this country?
We don't want Superman. We want adults.
Of which the GOP has zero. They destroy. That's their mission. It's what they always do.
This is beyond pathetic. These white over the hill fake Christians wanting to take women's rights away? This is what it has come down to.
Again, we're not looking for Superman. We're just looking for some decency.
You won't find it with the GOP House. You just won't.
Are you kidding...this is ALL Obama and his liberal idiots!! So, the conservatives are radicals because they don't support our tax dollars paying for abortions? paying for liberal spin PBS? EVERYTHING non-essential should be shut down until it can be paid for. Not by borrowing from other countries or by raising the debt ceiling. Actually paid for. Stop spending, spending, spending on useless government programs. Teach the kids how to read, write, math and science. Let them learn about self-esteem by their parents and a job well done. Accountability.
So what exactly happened to the "Great Obama", the one that got so much done over the Lame Duck session of Congress last Christmas? The media had a field day gushing over Obama with that one. I guess ratifying treaties with the Russians and letting gays serve openly in the military just didn't carry over to getting to a balanced budget and preventing gasoline from costing $4 a gallon. So how's that START treaty and DADT working for you America, when you fill up your gas tank?
Well, I guess that means we're sunk. To even compare Obama to something super-human is laughable. That loser hasn't gotten anything right. From his trillion dollar stimulus bill, to his trillion health care bill, to his trillion dollar deficits, to his walking away from the war he started in Libra, Obama is the last guy you want to depend on for getting anything done.
Actually, you'll find that the statistics on all those things are higher in the northeast and upper Midwest -- i.e., the blue states -- than they are in the red states. So you'll have to do more than rant to convince me that your values are somehow superior to liberal values. Don't make me laugh.
This isn't about abortion, and you know it. Pursuant to the Hyde Amendment, federal funds already cannot be used for abortions. And yes, conservatives who push for de-funding Planned Parenthood ARE radical, since the majority of Americans don't support that. So, and let's be truthful, this is really about wanting to control women's reproductive choices.
You must be the product on non-unionized education, since you can't even spell Wisconsin. But be proud in your ignorance. It will have to sustain you now.
The Dems have laid the money out that the GOP asked for. Get rid of the riders and pass the damn bill!
I see however that Mr Krugman comes up with no suggestions as to how we pay for medicare in the future years particularly how these programs will survive a debt crisis similar to what some European countries are facing. We are currently running a $1.5T deficit. If tax on the top 2% are raised to Clinton levels that will raise $70B. If taxes for all are raised to Clinton levels that will raise $400B. If we cut defense by 90% that will save $700B. That's still not enough!!
If this is really about the Planned Parenthood funding, then Boener is a liar. He said this whole budget stalement was about money not politics. Abortion is a 100% political issue. If this was about $300 million to cut, there are a million other programs where that money could come from, but he's playing politics and aiming at a very specific program. He needs to compromise and find another program to go after if he's worried about $300 mil.
Looks like the FR lefty liberal collapse Gods are angry this morning.
I wonder if a ritual sacrafice of The Donald's hair would appease them??
it's not just they are "hoping" obama fails, they are and have been from the moment he was inaugurated, working and planning on his failure. public education - who needs it, as with "only the little people pay taxes" their kids and grandkids go to private school, jobs - so be it, we have a taxpayer "living on the public trough" job; planned parenthood - we have the best health care available along with our taxpayer funded retirement. oops, sorry, they are having a struggle living off their taxpayer funded $174,000 a year job. for a group who decries big, intrusive government they sure spend a lot and time and money getting and keeping that big, intrusive government job.
It would appear that First Read's latent fear of JoAnnaSmith1 has turned into hysterical censorship.
They're only ideas, First Readers.
Don't be afraid.
I've yet to hear the reason why the federal government is funding Planned Parenthood in the first place.
What exactly is the HHS for? Why do we need to fund a private organization?
THE FLOCCINAUCINIHILIPILIFICATION OF THE GOP/TP FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHUT-DOWN
We are in an age of floccinaucinihilipilificationism. Let The Washington Post at budget season prattle on about "The Return of Miss Rosy Scenario."
I recently used the term in the course of Senate debate on the apportionments of the Highway Trust Fund.
U.S. Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan quotes
floccinaucinihilipilification definition:
"action or habit of estimating as worthless," 1741, a combination offour Latin words ( flocci, nauci, nihili, pilifi ) all signifying "at a smallprice" or "for nothing,"
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/floccinaucinihilipilification
Republicans don't care about deficits whether the deficit number is $33 billion or a bazillion; really.
Republicans are refusing to budge on these ideological demands because they want to flummox the public into thinking the President is weak.
a) House Republicans want to take all federal funds slated for Planned Parenthood and other family planning organizations and give it to state health departments to use as they see fit. That way, states controlled by Republican legislatures would choose not to give that money to Planned Parenthood while state capitals controlled by Democrats would keep things status quo.
Republicans also want to prohibit payments for abortions overseas -- a policy that was overturned by an executive order from Obama. Another rider would end the United States' contribution to the United Nations Population Fund, which focuses on reproductive health, according to a report in the New York Times.
b) A measure to prohibit the Environmental Protection Agency from regulating greenhouse gas emissions came up for a Senate vote on Wednesday and failed. If Republicans want to have yet another legislative debate about abortion and family planning, let them try to pass a separate bill containing their restrictions. But that bill would fail, too, and they know it, so they have chosen extortion.
My Conclusion:
The fragile gains the economy received will be set back which is what the repups want due to their lust and greed to regain the White House if they flummox the public President Obama and the Democrats are weak and huge spenders.
So called Gov hawks (GOP/T-Baggers) will do more damage to argue planned parenthood fund about because tax dollars do not go to abortions. So when these extreme anarchist, misogynistic zealots who have no idea what is reality, or what is not facts; maybe They'll get real.
All that time they spent to make the motto in "God we trust" a law was nothing more a mockery.
WI-GOP ELECTION FRAUD AS I SEE IT
So the last 2 days the WI-GOP was trying to figure out how they can still get Prosser into office. You should know by now they are desperate and will say and do anything.
Well, they did.
It is NOT a coincidence that Prosser didn't get +300 votes or +1000, it had to be +7500 or more in order for the fraud to work. +7400 just wouldn't have been enough.
It seems that Kathy Nickolaus has a HISTORY with regard to questionable election practices:
The numbers were identical to the ones Nickolaus just reported. She claims they weren't imported into the spreadsheet, but if that were true, the discrepancy should have been 14,715 votes total.
Part of the problem is how she's using different numbers for the same conclusion. The difference between 14,715 and 3,456 is 7,403. Those would be the "extra". But in order to believe her, you have to assume the AP just let an entire town and a bunch of precincts stand at ZERO despite having reported in nearly 15,000 votes.
http://crooksandliars.com/breaking-news/conservative-waukesha-county-clerk-f
Recount: I just found 1800 votes on my netbook! Just kidding:)
United We Stand Collapsed We Fall
And what are the Dem's solutions??? (crickets)
You fools can bash the GOP all you want, but you haven't put forth one plan to cut the Obama $1.65 Trillion dollar deficit.... IN FACT you never even put forth any option for LAST YEARS budget... 10 months behind as usual!
Liberalism, America's greatest failure!
Here we go again with these highly moral republicans. Willing to shut down the government and break the backs of the middle class. They want to dictate to women what they can or can’t do with their bodies. First of all, the govenment does not fund abortions through planned parenthood. These jerks need to stay out of people’s private lives and get down to business. What the republicans are doing here is immoral. They would strip every damn thing they can that hurts the middle class . They need to get on board, cut the bull crap and keep their religious beliefs out of politics. If they are willing to shutdown the government for something like this planned parenthood crap that does not exist in the first place, what else would they be willing to do to? This is a good picture of what we are all in for if the Republicans get back into the Whitehouse. Groveling to the religious freaks and the Tea Baggers.
JoAnna,
You left out, and he is black Kenyan Mau Mau revolution supporter, who stole the 2008 election with the help of acorn. Not to mention a socialist who hates America. Then there is the plan hatched back in 1960 to plant him in the United States as a false citizen so he could destroy America.
THAT didn't take long!!!!!!
Over the years I've found so-called open-minded, tolerant liberals to be some of the most closed-minde and intolerant people I have ever met. The only things they are open to, and tolerant of, is you agreeing with them.
Looks like the FR lefty liberal collapse Gods are angry this morning.
I wonder if a ritual sacrafice of The Donald's hair would appease them??
Joe, they've gotten so bad that JFK would have to run as a GOP to have a shot!
You guys also forgot to tell JoAnna that Obama is actually a communist version of Shaft, using his good looks and mind control to turn this mother out into a communist safe haven. LOL.
CowardlyLibs,
If you had any history here, you would be aware of the Progressives' posts being collapsed for the same silly childish excuses as you feel TA and others have been collapsed.
Feisty, Bev, Louis and others have been collapsed more by those from the right than anyone on this blog.
As for being nasty; those from the right wins that distinction hands down.
Sorry,
no matter HOW You try to spin it libbies... IF your people would of done their job last year and passed a budget we wouldnt be here now.
Its FACT....... You cannot spin it ANYWAY at all.....
NONE of this would be happening if Harry and Nancy would of proposed and passed a budget.
Beverly On your comment about the Wisconsin election how do you explain this:
"Senator al Frankin (D) MN won his election when a car trunk of ballots magically appeared nearly 2 weeks after the vote.
Although they were clearly out of chain of custody and not in standard vote envelopes or lockboxes, the Democrat controlled State accepted them.
It put him as the winner in a district where McCain won the Presidential Race."
The first example is where suddenly finding missing votes benefited a Democrat. The following explains the current situation. I for one am for fair honest elections no matter the winner as we all should be.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/264219/wild-one-waukesha-daniel-foster
“We sat through an open transparent meeting for the last day and a half. We sat with people from both sides of the aisle and went through every tape, number by number, then proofed those numbers again.”
At one point Ramona Kitzinger, a Democratic representative on the canvassing board and vice-chair of the county’s Democratic party, stepped up to the podium to confirm Nickolaus’s account. “We’re satisfied that it’s correct,” Kitzinger said of the numbers.“We went over everything and made sure the numbers jibed.”
Alan, NJ.
As you point out above about the enormity of the debt issue why is the government shutdown being held up by a paltry $300 million?
To answer your question, Planned parenthood is receives nearly 1/3 of its funding by the government and gets private donations for the other 2/3. They not only perform abortions but provide family planning services, screening and contraceptives etc. The reason that they get federal funding is because Presiden Nixon in a bipartisan push signed a bill into law - Family Planning services act in 1970.
Abortion, that trivial yet huge issue that invites so much division and rancor. Despite my personal beliefs and sympathy for the pro life arguement, I still consider myself pro life because I still view this as a personal choice for the people. As always, I think in no way should we try to mandate morales on this issue.
If this planned parenthood is the only thing holding up a solution to a shutdown then God help us.
1,200,000 million dead fetus's a year is "Trivial"? It's not about changing the law to make Abortion illegal, which i believe will never be done, it's about making sure that the Tax payer isn't paying for it.
Reposting this just to say to the FR lefty liberals: Paraphrasing Slick Willy Clinton: "I enjoy your pain."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THAT didn't take long!!!!!!
Over the years I've found so-called open-minded, tolerant liberals to be some of the most closed-minde and intolerant people I have ever met. The only things they are open to, and tolerant of, is you agreeing with them.
Looks like the FR lefty liberal collapse Gods are angry this morning.
I wonder if a ritual sacrafice of The Donald's hair would appease them??
All this talk about Abortion and Planned Parenthood is just smoke. What is in the budget bill is a ton of payback stuff like no more EPA regulation what you can discharge into rivers, coal ash is "ruled" non-toxic, loopholes for the very rich and corporations.
But you don't hear about this in the media. So what if the Republicans throw the Democrats a face saving bone and fund Planned Parenthood for $100 million? They have gotten what is really important to them and the people who paid to get them elected.
Oops...Edit
Despite my personal beliefs and sympathy for the pro life arguement, I still consider myself pro choice because I still view this as a personal choice for the people. As always, I think in no way should we try to mandate morales on this issue.
You know why they get collapsed.... They are all political HACKS who do not know how to have an adult debate about ANY issue.
Bev, is a copy paster.. wouldn't have an original thought if it was a 2x4 and hit her in the back of the head. Bev spouts the " talking points" like a true "Ditto Head"
Fiesty is a hate monger who can eclipse the fear and hatred of the Grand Pumba of the KKK towards a person of color. Just look at her posts and if you actually look at the post and not the poster you will see it.
Louis I just don't even take the time to read his crap. Just like Bev, he copy pastes most of his stuff and like fiesty wouldn't even be able to earn a spot on a freshman debate team.
If the sticking point really is just Planned Parenthood, then the Republicans should agree to the deal. However, on other sites I hear they are still 3 to 5 billion away on the overall cuts...if that's truly the case, then I want the Republicans to keep pushing. This country can and will go broke if we don't make significant changes in our budget (whether that's cuts, tax increases or, my preference, both).
As to Ryan's budget, I'm fine with bashing it - if you offer an alternative. As of now, I haven't seen an alternative proposal from the Democrats. Once they produce that, then we can have a real discussion...until then, it looks like it's all just politics to me.
Why should we have to pay for abortions. you messed up you fix it. this shouldn’t be on the budget. For the republicans to allow this to happen goes against the parties beliefs. We Shouldn’t be paying for irresponsible peoples actions. Everyone that is blaming the Republicans for this mess remember this budget should have been done OCT 1st 2010, before the republicans took over the house. I think both parties are out of control and cutting back spending is what we need. How are we going to survive spending money we do not have. That is stupid. Funding unnecessary crap is what got us in this mess. Just like the 3 wars we are in. They shouldn’t be sending funding and assistance to other countries when we don’t even have the money to fund social security. I am tired of the government spending my hard earned money to fund bull@!$%# like this when there is millions of Americans that don’t have jobs and they are getting their houses taken away. Pro-Choice is great you want to chose you pay for it.
"Looks like you have ascended to the "censor the conservatives" level"
________________________
Enjoy their pain. Living well is the best revenge. Especially when you only have to pay 15% tax on those stock dividends that roll in every quarter.
That didnt take long..
Truth hurts....
I know it's moronic to repost collapsed posts, but, I'm in a "fiesty" mood today!!!
Reposting this just to say to the FR lefty liberals: Paraphrasing Slick Willy Clinton: "I enjoy your pain."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THAT didn't take long!!!!!!
Over the years I've found so-called open-minded, tolerant liberals to be some of the most closed-minde and intolerant people I have ever met. The only things they are open to, and tolerant of, is you agreeing with them.
Looks like the FR lefty liberal collapse Gods are angry this morning.
I wonder if a ritual sacrafice of The Donald's hair would appease them??
I don't participate in collapsing, but considering you guys practice it on a normal basis, I could care less if you're collapsed.
Republicans in Congress only know one thing, TEA. They drink it too much and are about to choke on it. It's tainted and poisoned. TEA Drinkers remind me of that kid on The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe that kept eating that Turkish Delight, he was so drunk on it, he didn't realize he was about to betray those he loved the most.
The Wicked Witch of the Northwoods has the TEA Drinkers in her spell while she takes what little money they have from them. Open your minds.
Giggidy
(:^\/)
CowardlyLibs,
Why bother... I have to say, I do agree with you, but now you are asking for an explanation?? Why bother. Your screen name says what you already know. That should explain it in a nutshell.
Like Big Daddy O bama said, conservatives ride in the back, remember??? We're the enemy, remember?????
Soros the puppet master white billionaire is controlling Daddy O every second.. Hmmm, how ironic. And Sharpton is allowing this? Hmmmm. how ironic.
Nasty GOP wants to reduce spending by 1% of discretionary spending.
Are the any adults in this room?
Tim-2678346
You guys also forgot to tell JoAnna that Obama is actually a communist version of Shaft, using his good looks and mind control to turn this mother out into a communist safe haven. LOL.
Actually, Tim it's his big brother living in China, Mark Obama, who maybe the communist.
http://tinyurl.com/3llnpbq
Obama Meets With Half Brother While in China. Mark Obama is
a strategic marketing consultant. He also helped start a chain of eateries in China called Cabin BBQ.
Ndesandjo has a thin mustache, shaved head
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28696286/
http://www.time.com/time/video/player/0,32068,52157146001_1942506,00.html
Hey Dog
I think you're one of the few adults on this board. I too am pro-choice but I don't understand why the federal government is funding this organization. Money in fungible, so although the dollars they get from the government are not used for abortion it's obvious that those dollars free up other contributions that are used for abortions. I feel this is the same as GWB's attempt to bring more charities into accepting federal money and then those charities realized it was a two edged sword.
My question is why is the HHS not responsible for birth control and contraception and then PP can provide abortions if required. A separation that allows each organization freedom of actions.
BTW I still don't understand why contraceptives are not covered by health insurance.
@ord,
Which one?
1. The Gov talking to the fake Koch dude?
2. The Gov's people giving an unqualified , dui having dude, a great job then months later giving him a 26% raise.
3. The other dude who his wife siad she is going to sign the recall, because her "husband" is not living in the jurisdiction but with his 25 y/o playmate.
I'm sure there are more examples, but you get my drift, I hope!
Surely Congress members were not sworn in to make the rich richer and the poor poorer, and shut down our government over women's healthcare, family planning and monitoring clean air.
Taking down the govt will just make America look like the little kid on the international block. We will be demonstrating our immaturity very nicely.
Republican officials are greeted with cheers and standing ovations when they mention a shut down, even as they are mouthing that they do not want one.
Steve of delawre - right wing posts win the nasty award hands down? ROTLMAO! You most have must of the regular FR libs on "ignore". Perhaps when have insomnia I will compile post from both and see who rules. lmao!
you are funny steve!
If you have not figured it out yet Cowardlylibs is none other than true american. I say again that whenever a rethug mentions the name Soros they lose ALL credibility if they had any to begin with. We all know Soros is Beck's favorite whipping boy.
Good morning Bev,
Here is an interesting "cut and paste" from the MSNBC article I found interesting:
An interesting change, Democrats are lowering their praise for Obama?
So, how's that obama war going for you?
I know it's moronic to repost collapsed posts, but, I'm in a "fiesty" mood today!!!
Reposting this just to say to the FR lefty liberals: Paraphrasing Slick Willy Clinton: "I enjoy your pain."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THAT didn't take long!!!!!!
Over the years I've found so-called open-minded, tolerant liberals to be some of the most closed-minde and intolerant people I have ever met. The only things they are open to, and tolerant of, is you agreeing with them.
Looks like the FR lefty liberal collapse Gods are angry this morning.
I wonder if a ritual sacrafice of The Donald's hair would appease them??
Joe,
You will get more respect if you did not lie. I guess you have to do something for attention.
What Clinton said was "I feel your pain".
Republicans are to collapsers in chief. They start with the first post, because they envy someone who functions early in the morning.
"And that's the way it is"......this week. Maine's Governor LePage has a new plan for Child Labor. Allow teenagers to work 24 hours a week for $2.25 less than the minimum wage for 179 days (at 180, they would get a $2.25 raise) thus ensuring that on day 179, the teen will be fired so the owner can hire the next teenager for $2.25 less. Cheap labor at the expense of children many earning money for college.
Karl Rove commented again that he thinks President Obama wants the "birther" controversy because it makes the republican party look bad. The GOP/TP does whacky all by themselves and the President could not care less whether "birthers" lead the charge or the "secret Muslim" whack-a-doodless. As usual old Turdblossom tries to blame the President for the fact his party has gone whacky.
Earlier this year President Obama challenged the state governors, at their big pow-wow, complaining about the health care law to create a better plan. Mostly silence but Vermont's Governor ran with it and that state is working on Single-Payer, State Government run health care. They estimate 4,000 jobs will be created by removing the burden of health insurance from employers. How sweet it is!
The GOP House plans to pass legislation that will set back FAA regulations, including the one written to prevent another tragic commuter plane crash like the one in Buffalo that killed 50, the one written to prevent pilots from flying without adequate rest and ensuring they are paid for a place to sleep. Apparently, regulations of any sort, including those to prevent deaths of private citizens, is too much for their narrow minds to grasp.
Senator Rand Paul now has his staff lying to callers about his "yes" vote on Libya S.RES.85. It's bad enough when politicians lie, it is another thing when those politicians expect their staff to lie, too, to cover that politician's rear end.
Texas Republican Louie Gohmert said on the House floor that our intervention in Libya is because President Obama wants to deplete the military so he can "call up his secret army" which is hidden in the Health Care Law. You just can't make this stuff up!
In the Wall Street Journal last Friday, Transocean reported it had its best safety year ever in 2010 and announced bonuses for the excellent safety record. On Monday, Transocean apologized for its insensitivity--considering that the BP explosion was the worst environmental disaster in our country and 11 people died--insensitive seems inadequate. But credit Transocean executives because after re-thinking their bonus rewards in light of the BP disaster, they announced they would give the bonus money to the families of those who died.
Republican Paul Ryan floated his master plan to cut $4 to $6 trillion from the budget over 10 years. There is nothing eliminating the annual $4 billion in tax breaks for big oil or no mention about closing the many tax loopholes for the rich and big business--entitlement loopholes giving more to those who have plenty. Nope, Ryan's road to prosperity is paved on the backs of the elderly, the poor, children, the disabled. Paul Ryan won't need a safety net when he retires or leaves Congress, he'll have health insurance and a nice, fat pension. It's so easy to eliminate safety nets when the eliminators won't have theirs eliminated!
Maine's Governor LePage received a bill from the federal government for about $60,000. It seems that his removal of the history of labor murals violated the Reed Act which requires art work paid for by the federal agency to be on public display at all times. Wonder if his Corporate Masters are willing to fork out the cash because it was those businesses who thought the murals offensive to business.
Glenn Beck announced he will be "transitioning off the air" later this year. In other words, FOX is not renewing his contract and is essentially firing him. Even Rupert and Roger can only tolerate so much paranoid, delusional conspiracy theories--well, that and no respectable firms bought advertising to pay for it.
During an interview with Beck, Bill O'Reilly admitted they are both provacateurs and they'd "be off the air if they weren't." Once again truth slips into FOX "on little cat feet".
On Monday, President Obama announced he is running for re-election--the GOP/TP is still searching for someone....anyone.
Tea Partier Michelle Bachmann now has an ad which talks about the "secret, hidden $105 billion" in Obamacare. The $105 billion printed in the law is neither secret nor hidden and if it weren't printed in it, it wouldn't exist. Considering many of her TP supporters mostly believe in conspiracies and secret, hidden things, it should be no surprise they think she's swell!
The day President Obama announced he is running in 2012, the Grand Old Party announced their intent to kill social security, medicare and medicaid. The timing is perfect for the President--Americans left, right and center love their social security and medicare. Even those Tea Party rally folks carried signs that said "keep your hands off our medicare"!
Indiana Republican legislators intend to pass legislation to force doctors to read patients statements that include the claim abortion causes breast cancer (scientifically proven false). Those legislators defeated an amendment that required any such statements be medically and scientifically proven. Seems republicans do not like facts in their legislation any more than they like facts any where else.
Florida State House democrat Scott Randolph was chastised for saying the word "uterus" on the House floor. His democratic leadership was told that Randolph is not to name body parts when speaking in the House. How bizzare, the GOP can restrict the rights of those body parts just as long as they don't name them out loud.
The House held hearings on gas prices and why they're going up. Boehner and republicans are hoping the media doesn't get wind of it because the testimony of every person except one (who works for the Chamber of Commerce) said Wall Street speculators are driving up the price and if we want $6 a gallon gas, the quickest way to get there is to defund the FTC and the Frank/Dodd bill--which is exactly what the GOP/TP wants to do.
Donald Trump continues to tell one lie after another about President Obama--big, bold-faced lies--while comparing himself to George Washington. "The greatest scam in history" is Trump thinking he's remotely qualified to be president. Trump isn't qualified to stand in President Obama's shaddow let alone his shoes.
Bill Cosby had the best and most honest take on Donald Trump. He said "the only thing Trump runs is his mouth.....and no I (Cosby) don't have to taken him seriously (just because he might run for president)."
If Government shuts down, 800,000 families will not get paychecks, millions of people and businesses will not get the services we expect because the Tea Party doesn't care; economists left and right say a shut down will impact the economic recovery. The GOP/TP is willing to risk shutting down the Government not over budget disagreements but over Social Issue Policy Riders.
The GOP/TP House passed a continuing resolution to fund government for one more week. The CR continues military funding for 6 months but they attached a policy rider about abortion. Nothing like using our excellent military troops hostage over a social issue. Now the GOP/TP is claiming the President doesn't support the troops. Patriotic legislators would have passed a "clean" CR funding the military; flag-waving, hypocrit cowards attach abortion riders to funding for the troops.
Why can't he send it back to the idiotic federal agency that spent $60K in 2008 on a freekin mural. Why couldn't that money have repaired a road somewhere or employed a teacher for year?
Thank you Jody for all your hard work. Bill Cosby is right - We don't have to take The Donald seriously. He is such a sell out.
As I sit here on Friday, April 8th, I am secretly wishing they're shut down the '11 Baseball Season. Red Sox - 0-6. Good grief. Today is our Opening Day.
Say what you will about Rep. Paul Ryan's plan, Jody, but here's the current score on the debt crisis:
Ryan-1.
Obama-0.
So, Bag Boy ... then your standard is that any old plan counts, no matter how bad it is?
And even if that plan will actually result in raising the deficit, as closer analysis reveals that Ryan's plan will surely do?
Sorry, Bag Boy. As it turns out, Ryan's plan is actually WORSE than nothing.
Actually, AM...I'm on record here at First Read favoring the Plan submitted by the President's own bipartisan debt commission...the one that the President seems to be ignoring.
If the Ryan plan manages to change that, Rep. Ryan will have performed a very valuable service indeed, Anna Molly.
It's a budget bill.
Remove the riders. They're nothing more than social engineering earmarks.
If the subjects of those riders can't pass as stand-alone legislation, they doesn't deserve to hitch a ride on the budget bill.
Done.
So if it was the President's commission -- you appear to be anxious to assign ownership of it to him, so I'll grant you that -- then isn't the score really Obama 1 and Ryan 1 -- at least by your calculus?
And aren't you saying that you would break that tie in favor of the President's plan?
But here's the deal, Bag Boy. This isn't really a point worth further argument, except that Ryan's plan, being punitive and entirely ideolotically based, performs no valuable service. There are things worse than debt, as we appear to be on the brink of finding out.
And even if there weren't, Ryan's plan doesn't appear to be calculated to fix the debt, either.
I found this to be an interesting point from the above story...
Since medicare and SS still have continuing problems, maybe it is time for the dumb liberals and democrats to start paying attention and get their heads out of their azzes. Also sounds like the repubs need to bring this little tidbit more out into the open for our approaching seniors to read.
Jody,
Great Work on your Post. Thanks
@MB: exactly what has Rep. Ryan done, except to inform the public that the Republican party truly is in favor of tax cuts to the wealthy taking place at the same time as it cuts services to the poor, disabled and the elderly?
Current score: Teapublican Party -20
America: -20
Democrats: TBD
Great recap, Jody----sometimes some of the stuff our politicians do or say is like driving by a traffic accident--you don't want to look but you do. If it weren't so scary it would be funny.
Now you're talking with all the civility of In The Middle, but notwithstanding that, here's a deal for you, american. I promise to do what you propose if you promise to do the same with regard to defense spending, never-ending wars, and subsidies for businesses that don't need any help -- in case that's too obscure, I'm referring to OIL COMPANIES.
Or are some things untouchable, just as long as they're YOUR things?
American,
Recently have missed some of your posts/questions to me over the past few days. Not ignoring you but have been in and out.
The article pointed out, collaspsed above in your post...
Brownstein also notes that this is the FIFTH time since 1980 that Republicans “have followed an electoral breakthrough by attempting to restructure Medicare or Social Security.”
American, perhaps it is worth noting that the republican's attempts to restructure Medicare and Social security have been heavy handed and drastic. The attempts at restructuring drastically, have been tempered by calming forcings from both sides of the aisle. Indeed with an ever aging and longer lived population the systems will have to be modified again.
The liberal idea for social security reform is to raise the cap on higher income earners to garner more revenue. The conservative idea is to allow people to opt out and place their funds in risker investments to perhaps get more return, thereby reducing federal money needed. Is there a middle ground?
Concerning medicare, it needs to continue to be a safety net government program with periodic reforms to ensure stability. The GOP plan, Ryan's ideas in particular seem to put more and more responsibility on the aging to pay for their health insurance. Although some could and would gladly do this, for some simply can not.
Anna Molly-
Sorry, AM...
I'll give the President credit for the debt commission when he embraces its Plan...gladly, with bells on. (Bet you'd like to see that, eh?)
Anyway, don't collapse me, OK, AM?
Anna Molly Nothing should be untouchable Defense cuts absolutely need to be done, whoever heard of paying hundreds of dollars for a hammer, etc. Never ending wars well if we go into a country they need to pay the freight for our help business subsidies need to go chamber, planned parenthood, oil companies, social security and medicare needs to be revamped. I would be open to subsidies for oil companies if they agree to dropping gas prices to $1.00 a gallon and keeping them there. Pretty sure most would agree to that.
Think Progress:
The “clean bill” Bachmann called for is exactly what the Democrats offered yesterday.
Perhaps this more sober approach comes from a recognition that, in attempting to strike at abortion providers, the GOP bill would actually gut critical women’s health services instead. Planned Parenthood has long been banned from using federal funds to perform abortions. This measure would, instead, ban funding that goes to contraception, family planning, and cancer screening services.
But still, Republicans like Rep. Jeff Flake (R-AZ) are intent on passing the misguided rider regardless if it results in a shutdown — a position that, as the Washington Monthly Steve Benen notes, reveals the GOP as a party that “isn’t just shutting down the government, it’s shutting down the government for a ridiculous reason that the American mainstream will find absurd.”
Down---set--22--44--hut, hut---It's an Rove v Wade end around play by the right for a loss on the play!
AM,
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!! There is no compromise on the SS issue it's raise the cap or NOTHING. Put it before the American people and watch the Republicans run around and defend the rich. Let them hang themselves on the issue. Let them explain why 90% of us pay SS all year long and the other 10% get a tax holiday. I don't know about you but I'm tired of shouldering the tax burden for rich people in this country. Combine this issue with Ryan's budget and the union busting and Obama will wrap it around their neck in 2012. No need to compromise. Game over...
Ed
To those who liked the recap, thank you. Have a nice day and a great weekend.
A question for the Republicans...
Is this "your moment"?
You like to profess that there needs to be "less government" so if there is a shutdown today will you celebrate because it seems to me you'll have your wish.
Less government isn't an option, it's a requirement. Running $1.65 trillion dollar deficits for years on end is not the solution. Now, if you Libs want to raise taxes to close the gap, you better get someone in your party making that proposal and writing that legalisation. Haven't heard a peep about raising taxesfrom the likes of Obama, Reid, Pelosi or anyone else. So if you don't advocate the added taxes, you Lefties better come up with some cuts.
It is your "moment" Lefties. So rather than hide under you desk like Obama is doing, maybe you can come up with some ideas of your own.
JoAnnaSmith1
The question Dem and GOP lawmakers need to ponder: Are they really going to shut down the federal government over $300 million for Planned Parenthood? That’s what the debate has really come down to.
Less government isn't an option, it's a requirement.
Now Joanna i will agree with you on that, so please tell you right wing nut job republican that to shut the government down over 300 million dollars WILL COME BACK TO BIT THEM IN THE A*S!!, no matter what its for its only 300 million dollars.
The sleeping giant you said Looks like he’s dozed off again could be nothing further from the truth, Prosser was suppose to win by 30 points, Not less than a 1000 votes, the recalls are still going to happen and the new law is being challenged in court. If I'm a wisconson republican I would be scared, and given the sh*t scott walker is about hiring a non qualified son of a FRIEND given the JOB cuts he is making and also given the fact this goof was making more than a degreed teacher 81k will sink him.
scott walker is not dumb for hiring this KID but real dumb a*s because he got CAUGHT!!!!!
After reviewing the details of Paul Ryan's budget proposal, I wouldn't be surprised if President Obama decides to take a second look at the Plan his debt commission came up with.
For all the vilification of the Tea Party and Paul Ryan, you must admit...their issue, the debt crisis, has risen to the top of the nation's agenda.
At the moment, it's at the top of President Obama's agenda as well...and pretty likely to stay there.
Joanna it isn't about the democrats in Congress wanting to raise taxes, it is about them actually paying their taxes like the rest of us.
So now the Democrats are down to winning "moral victories". That's what regional parties do I guess.
Mixed Bag
The ryan proposal will only devert the debt to the states, from the federal government, its no solution or even a start, he is also cutting the program that takes care of the ederly, or do you not plan to get old, becuse if you don't then this plan is great for you, but if you do like me, we both will be screwed.
JoAnnaSmith1
So now the Democrats are down to winning "moral victories". That's what regional parties do I guess
No Joanna ignore my other comment about your boy scott walker and his friends sons 81k non qualified job, just ignore that, that fine, you can also ignore the fact that if it has not been for scott walker that race would have not been a contest, go ahead and Ignore that, that cool, hey its Friday!!!!
but you can't ignore the fact you boys, the republicans are going to allow the goerrnment to shut down over 300 million and planned parent hood, and about the same amount for head start but no defense cuts, Just go ahead and let your BOYS lead you down that same path that got is here. that cool Hey its friday!!!
HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN ITS A GOOD DAY???
JOANNA GETS COLLAPSED!!! LOL LOL
More important than planned parenthood (maybe) is unfunding the EPA, which nobody seems to talk about on this board.
Both are important issues, but the EPA helps to slow down the damage we're doing to our planet, which is accelerating in its demise.
For me, I'd say shut down over not funding EPA, and take the compromise on planned parenthood. Refund it when we get our numbers back in 2012.
The states are already broke, there's nothing they can do with any additional debt. That also sinks Obama health care plan, which depended on state dollars to fund even more federal mandates.
The Ryan plan is hardly even a a good first cut at cutting government spending. Fully implemented, it will only reduce by half the projected $13 trillion dollar deficits over the next 10 years. Something even more radical needs to be done to to balance the countries budget. Ryan's plan is actually quite moderate.
So if you don't like the Ryan plan, where's the Democrats plan?
So Jeff, when are you going to stop doing those childish things?
It's fear, JoAnnaSmith1-
That's all it is.
JoAnnaSmith1
So Jeff, when are you going to stop doing those childish things?
Joanna never, and when are you going to stopped getting COLLASPED.
HEY ITS FRIDAY SMILE!!!!!!!
you should be happy, your GUYS are going to allow the government the shut down over 300 million and planned parent hood, but because your not a parent, parent hood mean nothing to you.
HEY ITS FRIDAY SMILE!!!!!!! come on send me a SMILE!!!!
da noid (post 3) - not hardly, but historians may point to it as an attempt to return to fiscal sanity.
Well, at least you have the guts to admit you're one of the cowards doing so Jeff. Not very bright of you, but that fits in well with the rest of your persona.
Nice talking Jeff. Be sure to have a good life.
JoAnnaSmith1
The Ryan plan is hardly even a a good first cut at cutting government spending. Fully implemented, it will only reduce by half the projected $13 trillion dollar deficits over the next 10 years. Something even more radical needs to be done to to balance the countries budget. Ryan's plan is actually quite moderate.
Yes it is, its the same plan McCain was floating during the election, giving block grant to buy health care. health care that will cost 3 times more than the grant. so in the end when if some one has say, CANCER what ever that plan does not cover, the states will have to pick up the rest. so instead of texas being 50 billion in the hole, they will be maybe 100 billion in the hole.
Yea Joanna great plan.
Also how is this going to work in the next 5 years when more baby boomers hit the rolls, or is Ryan hoping they die early? its now strange coincidence that cost are going out of control now that baby boomers are hitting the rolls but i thouht Reagan fixed this already.
Unless he buys the hospitals to control cost this will be a disaster.
JoAnnaSmith1
Well, at least you have the guts to admit you're one of the cowards doing so Jeff. Not very bright of you, but that fits in well with the rest of your persona.
Nice talking Jeff. Be sure to have a good life.
Hey i think i made Joanna CRY!!!!
She can sell wolf tickets but she can't cash them.
SMILE ITS FRIDAY!!!
Joanna every friday i thank god I'm still here so you need to lightn up and smile its firday!!!!!!!!
jeff - you don't mean to imply that state governments aren't capable of applying taxes collected to assist medicaid or other programs are you?
I have no problem with ryans plan, as I know any final budget passed will be different. Ryan at least appears to want to be ahead of our debt curve while Obama and company appear to think that if we ignore it or try and minimize it, future job growth will take care of it.
Cuts today and tommorow doesn't mean that that the cuts made will be forever. Politicians need to stop thinking that more $$$ will cure what ails us.
Really, Jeff?
You're collapsing posts?
Ryan and the GOP are showing leadership while there is none from Obama. Ryan's plan is easily attacked, it's specifying where cuts will be made, and where funding is being taken away (funding with borrowed money btw), and the Ryan plan has to be explained that plan in great detail to the country. It also gives the Democrats/Liberals/Unions (all the same) a lot of ammo to demagogue the GOP. That's the price the GOP has to pay though for providing leadership.
Obama doesn't want to go on record with any spending reduction plan. It hurts his re-election plans, and in reality, it's quite clear that he couldn't care less about spending the country into bankruptcy.
Mixed Bag
Really, Jeff?
You're collapsing posts?
NOPE, The only post i ever collapsed was CU farley for obvious reasons.
Like I said in a couple other posts...I think it's fine to bash Ryan's plan if you offer an alternative. Although I haven't finished reading Ryan's plan (up to page 42 now), so far I like the presidents deficit commission recommendations better. But, neither party seems to care about the commissions recommendations. Hopefully the Democrats will create their own plan or start backing the presidents (or Ryan's if they decide they like it).
As to collapsing posts...I really don't get that one. I understand it if someone is just making vile rants, but a lot of the collapsed posts I read are just people stating policy opinions. In my opinion, a lot of people on this board need to learn to respect the opinions of others.
Mixed Bag, the deficit commission recommendation is the ONLY serious proposal on the table. Ryan's half-assed proposal drenched in partisan politics would harm our economy, abet the GOP's attacks on clean air and water, place millions of seniors at the mercy of de-regulated heallth insurance scammers, and still only reduce the deficit by 1/3. How anyone can call Ryan's plan serious is beyond me. I'm extremely disappointed in Obama for not leading the charge to adopt the deficit reduction committee's plan as the starting point for long term budget reform. My 5 point pland for controlling the deficit:
1) reform medicare/medicaid by means-testing, agressive fraud prosecution, and making delivery more efficient.
2) reform social security by means-testing, gradually increase eligibility age, raise the contribution cap. SS should provide security against an old age in poverty, not a way to finance a country club membership.
3) cut defense spending
4) reform the federal bureaucracy (I realize this is "reinventing government" all over again). Get rid of duplication, reduce spending on welfare, crop subsidies, foreign aid, and other reforms. Do not cut back on food safety, clean air and water, suport for higher education, research and development, energy efficiency, and other programs that protect public health and safety and are vital to moving our economy forward. Do not cut agencies like army corps of engineers, whose permits are required for every project in a wetland. We can't help our economy by throwing a monkey wrench into the gears that drive it.
5) tax reform... create new tax incentives for business to invest in the US and create jobs (including cutting corporate tax rates). Eliminate the Bush tax cuts for all taxpayers. Increase marginal rates on wealthy individuals, not on business.
We have to do all 5 or it ain't gonna work.
At least he admits it. But it takes a village of idiots to collapse a post, so Jeff has many friends.
And now this:
So now Jeff has been proven to be both a coward and a liar.
JoAnnaSmith1
Obama doesn't want to go on record with any spending reduction plan. It hurts his re-election plans, and in reality, it's quite clear that he couldn't care less about spending the country into bankruptcy.
Ok Joanna, Kidding aside,
the problem with Ryans plan for me is, i don't trust his slimmy republican ass. I don't trust any of them. as far as am concerned they can all go to Hell. i trusted Bush with WWD!!! I trusted his 1.2 trillion 10 year tax cut that was suppose pervent the worsed recession ever and near depression. i trusted him to not piss away the surplus clinton left him, and last i trusted him to not put our boys in harms way unless it was a national emergency. Iraq
I can't and will never forget where we were in 2000 when that weird goof took office and were we finished in 2008 and thesesame republican goofs are back telling me to trust them, i would rather trust raddlesnake.
The way our economy was running once Clinton increased revues and the republicans cut spending lead to 23 million jobs not 5 million using the same tricks Reagan did. cutting tax trying to juice the economy, reagans budget director said as much that it was never going to work, it was all about perception. People thinks that clinton just raised tax and we were off and running but what missing Joanna is the republicans cut spending. the best of both worlds. so as you label me a bleeding heart liberal, I know we will not clear up our debt unless we cut and increase renuves. thats the part of the debt commision you choose to ignore
No Joanna trust republicans, NEVER NEVER AGAIN. i did that twice and got screwed both times. i don't give a sh*t what his plan has, for me its about trust.
Joe - the one thing I'd add to #5 is, removing 98% of the special exemptions in the tax code so we don't have more GE's that make billions and don't pay any taxes.
I disagree with means testing SS. We've always been responsible and lived below our means (ex: I saved money when I made $10 or 12k in the Navy in the 80's), and we will likely have enough to fund our retirement if we ever decide to stop working. But, why shouldn't I get back some of the SS money I paid in over the years? All that means is we're being penalized for being financially responsible...whereas all of the people I know that spend every penny they get, are rewarded. That seems like a bad precedent to me. I'm fine with across the board cuts in benefits, but I don't like means testing because it penalizes good behavior.
One thing I do like in Ryan's proposal is changing to block grants for states because I think individual states are in a better position than the Federal government to know how to spend money in their state. (not the best wording, but you get the gist of it :))
I also think we've got a lot more work to do on health-care. If we're going to stay with a free-market style system we need to do things like allow more competition by removing the cross-state barriers. I'd also like to look at tort reform - although that's a tricky one because I don't want to prevent legitimate lawsuits.
Jeff - nice post and thanks for explaining the reasoning behind your views. Personally, my expectations for all politicians are so low it's hard for me to be surprised when they do something I think is stupid. I didn't support Bush on the tax cuts, Iraq, Aschroft, and 90% of the things he did while in office (his Africa policy is the one exemption), so I never had high expectations to get dashed.
I did like the Republicans from 1994 until 2000...but most of that crop did what they said they would do...cut spending and leave politics. At least on the economy, they also worked well with Clinton. I'm cautiously optimistic that most of the new crop is like the 1994 crowd...but time will tell. Now, if they start worrying about social issues, then I'll vote to throw them out also.
Joanna,
So now Jeff has been proven to be both a coward and a liar.
Bi*ch you don't know me, call me a coward ,a liberal, a Ni**er, but don't ever call a person you don't know a liar you don't know me, you better go ask some one, remember I'm from chicago, i will have al capone rub you out.
Now collaspe that!!!!
Jeff - I agree with you!!! It's a wonderful day when JoAnna gets collapsed. She's an angry winger and deserves every collapse she gets.
THE FLOCCINAUCINIHILIPILIFICATION OF THE GOP/TP FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHUT-DOWN
We are in an age of floccinaucinihilipilificationism. Let The Washington Post at budget season prattle on about "The Return of Miss Rosy Scenario."
I recently used the term in the course of Senate debate on the apportionments of the Highway Trust Fund.
U.S. Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan quotes
floccinaucinihilipilification definition:
"action or habit of estimating as worthless," 1741, a combination offour Latin words ( flocci, nauci, nihili, pilifi ) all signifying "at a smallprice" or "for nothing,"
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/floccinaucinihilipilification
Republicans don't care about deficits whether the deficit number is $33 billion or a bazillion; really.
Republicans are refusing to budge on these ideological demands because they want to flummox the public into thinking the President is weak.
a) House Republicans want to take all federal funds slated for Planned Parenthood and other family planning organizations and give it to state health departments to use as they see fit. That way, states controlled by Republican legislatures would choose not to give that money to Planned Parenthood while state capitals controlled by Democrats would keep things status quo.
Republicans also want to prohibit payments for abortions overseas -- a policy that was overturned by an executive order from Obama. Another rider would end the United States' contribution to the United Nations Population Fund, which focuses on reproductive health, according to a report in the New York Times.
b) A measure to prohibit the Environmental Protection Agency from regulating greenhouse gas emissions came up for a Senate vote on Wednesday and failed. If Republicans want to have yet another legislative debate about abortion and family planning, let them try to pass a separate bill containing their restrictions. But that bill would fail, too, and they know it, so they have chosen extortion.
My Conclusion:
The fragile gains the economy received will be set back which is what the repups want due to their lust and greed to regain the White House if they flummox the public President Obama and the Democrats are weak and huge spenders.
So called Gov hawks (GOP/T-Baggers) will do more damage to argue planned parenthood fund about because tax dollars do not go to abortions. So when these extreme anarchist, misogynistic zealots who have no idea what is reality, or what is not facts; maybe They'll get real.
All that time they spent to make the motto in "God we trust" a law was nothing more a mockery.
WI-GOP ELECTION FRAUD AS I SEE IT
So the last 2 days the WI-GOP was trying to figure out how they can still get Prosser into office. You should know by now they are desperate and will say and do anything.
Well, they did.
It is NOT a coincidence that Prosser didn't get +300 votes or +1000, it had to be +7500 or more in order for the fraud to work. +7400 just wouldn't have been enough.
It seems that Kathy Nickolaus has a HISTORY with regard to questionable election practices:
The numbers were identical to the ones Nickolaus just reported. She claims they weren't imported into the spreadsheet, but if that were true, the discrepancy should have been 14,715 votes total.
Part of the problem is how she's using different numbers for the same conclusion. The difference between 14,715 and 3,456 is 7,403. Those would be the "extra". But in order to believe her, you have to assume the AP just let an entire town and a bunch of precincts stand at ZERO despite having reported in nearly 15,000 votes.
http://crooksandliars.com/breaking-news/conservative-waukesha-county-clerk-f
Recount: I just found 1800 votes on my netbook! Just kidding:)
United We Stand Collapsed We Fall
#1.19 - Fri Apr 8, 2011 10:11 AM EDT
Ron-1861300
I did like the Republicans from 1994 until 2000...but most of that crop did what they said they would do...cut spending and leave politics.
Right Ron, they said they were going to reform welfare and they did that, itswas not about ideology . they were sweep ed in because of the clinton tax increase and the failed HCR, but in the end it was the best thing that could have happened, we increased revues and cut spending and forced people off the welfare rolls, at the time i had 4 small children and got tired of seeing people get over with out working like i did.
But the reason why i don't and will not trust these guys is because they are waging class warfare, the 1994 republicans were not trying to take away from those who worked it, like thse guys are, Wisconsin cutting tax for the rich at the same time cutting money for children's and schools, Florida doing the same, Christie has enough since to not do what these guys are doing.
I, personally, long for the good ole days of Reagan. I can really respect the man for leading the nation into the biggest debt-spending spree ever recorded and sending us down this slippery slope. After all, Greed is Good!!! At least that is what all the Repubs (and a great number of the Dems as well) seem to think.
It was a MOVIE, for Chr*sts sake!!! The fact that this most famous line was FICTION didn't seem to impact all the big business leaders politics has been plagued with ever since from taking it truely to heart.
Watch "Capitalism: A Love Story". We are heading to H3ll in a Hand Basket very quickly, but that is OK with our "Leaders", because at least their baskets are lined with big, fluffy pillows stuffed full with their billions of dollars in bonuses and stock options...
Surely Congress members were not sworn in to make the rich richer and the poor poorer, and shut down our government over women's healthcare, family planning and monitoring clean air.
Taking down the govt will just make America look like the little kid on the international block. We will be demonstrating our immaturity very nicely.
Republican officials are greeted with cheers and standing ovations when they mention a shut down, even as they are mouthing that they do not want one.
Da noid
I found this to be an interesting point from the above story...
Since medicare and SS still have continuing problems, maybe it is time for the dumb liberals and democrats to start paying attention and get their heads out of their azzes. Also sounds like the repubs need to bring this little tidbit more out into the open for our approaching seniors to read.
Until 10 years ago I had at least a scintilla of respect for the Republican party. However, I have seen a party which was formerly concerned with fiscal responsibility collapse on itself due to the uber right-wing influence which promotes intolerance, hatred and, frankly, idiocy. The funding question around Planned Parenthood has NOTHING to do with abortion - federal law already prohibits funding abortions with government dollars. Republicans, you have now been overtaken by a slimy, lying, hating version of your former selves. And it is called the Tea Party. Honestly, if a REAL Republican can't find a way to reign in these ignorant, religiously zealous bumpkins, then the party will quickly learn that they have overspent the political capital they gained in the mid-terms. The Pubs must shut down the clown faction of the party - Trump, Bachmann, Palin, etc. in order to progress toward the day when the party can again be taken seriously. Dump the nuts, Pubs!!!!
G,
I am guessing that was ancient history, because out leaders the past 4 years have made Reagan look like child's play, including the 2012 budget that has been submitted, when a President knows we are in financial trouble, but would rather borrow $1.6 trillion than cut the budget. Gotta love those entitlement cross bearers.
Hey CL, stop sweating me. You sound like a dog sniffing the crotch. Get over yourself chief. If you want my attention, just say it. Other than that, the usual Republican rant makes you sound desparate for attention. SMH.
The more you cry over spilled milk, the longer it takes to eat the cookie.
Giggidy
(:^V)
Interesting news earlier today from another msnbc site concerning senator reids take on all of this...
Gee senator reid, with a growing national debt, the issue IS about numbers, ideology be damned! Looks like reid wants federal funding for abortions.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42467884/ns/politics-capitol_hill/?gt1=43001
What is happenning today is not a republican "moment" but rather may be a moment that historians refer to as where America made an attempt to regain fiscal sanity.
Seems like a lot of comments are collapsed for no good reason.
The collapse cowards are out in full force this week. You know their mind is closed and they do not have a working brain.
GOP TEA Obstructionism has put us on the brink
Republican agenda for America’s failure is on track:
Loss of Jobs… “So Be It.”
Economic Disaster… “We’re hoping on it.”
Dumb Down Education… “Who needs it?”
Kill the Small Business… “They love us anyway, so who cares.”
Crush Tourism… “What’s there to see anyway?”
These are just a few consequences that will occur when Government shuts down. And that is what the Republicans want. They have said it themselves, “I hope Obama fails.” Welcome to the Republican States of America, where segregation is status quo and sheer meanness is our regular business.
And the media eats it up. How does a news segment give 5-7 minutes to the Donald and his birther nonsense… because they support the message to keep things off-balanced. When I watch certain news casts, I see nothing but spin and support for Radicals and Extremists that have no desire to see America succeed. But that is the reality we live in, where everything is driven by money.
But there is hope in spite of the dope peddled by the pimps from the Right. There are people such as those that cannot be manipulated by the message and fight the good fight.
In the words of my dear old mama, "The mind is like a parachute, it doesn't work unless it's open."
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
Yes, louis you do have a very closed and one sided mind. Reading some of your "brain farts" are rather illuminating though as I store them in my lamp and ignite them latter>
Oboy my first collapse by the FR lib cowards. Hmmm should I do what they like to do, Post the same post multiple times?? Perhaps I should just rely on the intellegence of FR readers to just click on the "comment collapsed box"
Louis and company must not have liked my comments of louisJ closed mind and other points of illumination. LOL
I don't participate in collapsing, but considering you guys practice it on a normal basis, I could care less if you're collapsed.
Republicans in Congress only know one thing, TEA. They drink it too much and are about to choke on it. It's tainted and poisoned. TEA Drinkers remind me of that kid on The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe that kept eating that Turkish Delight, he was so drunk on it, he didn't realize he was about to betray those he loved the most.
The Wicked Witch of the Northwoods has the TEA Drinkers in her spell while she takes what little money they have from them. Open your minds.
Giggidy
(:^\/)
THE FLOCCINAUCINIHILIPILIFICATION OF THE GOP/TP FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHUT-DOWN
We are in an age of floccinaucinihilipilificationism. Let The Washington Post at budget season prattle on about "The Return of Miss Rosy Scenario."
I recently used the term in the course of Senate debate on the apportionments of the Highway Trust Fund.
U.S. Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan quotes
floccinaucinihilipilification definition:
"action or habit of estimating as worthless," 1741, a combination offour Latin words ( flocci, nauci, nihili, pilifi ) all signifying "at a smallprice" or "for nothing,"
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/floccinaucinihilipilification
Republicans don't care about deficits whether the deficit number is $33 billion or a bazillion; really.
Republicans are refusing to budge on these ideological demands because they want to flummox the public into thinking the President is weak.
a) House Republicans want to take all federal funds slated for Planned Parenthood and other family planning organizations and give it to state health departments to use as they see fit. That way, states controlled by Republican legislatures would choose not to give that money to Planned Parenthood while state capitals controlled by Democrats would keep things status quo.
Republicans also want to prohibit payments for abortions overseas -- a policy that was overturned by an executive order from Obama. Another rider would end the United States' contribution to the United Nations Population Fund, which focuses on reproductive health, according to a report in the New York Times.
b) A measure to prohibit the Environmental Protection Agency from regulating greenhouse gas emissions came up for a Senate vote on Wednesday and failed. If Republicans want to have yet another legislative debate about abortion and family planning, let them try to pass a separate bill containing their restrictions. But that bill would fail, too, and they know it, so they have chosen extortion.
My Conclusion:
The fragile gains the economy received will be set back which is what the repups want due to their lust and greed to regain the White House if they flummox the public President Obama and the Democrats are weak and huge spenders.
So called Gov hawks (GOP/T-Baggers) will do more damage to argue planned parenthood fund about because tax dollars do not go to abortions. So when these extreme anarchist, misogynistic zealots who have no idea what is reality, or what is not facts; maybe They'll get real.
All that time they spent to make the motto in "God we trust" a law was nothing more a mockery.
WI-GOP ELECTION FRAUD AS I SEE IT
So the last 2 days the WI-GOP was trying to figure out how they can still get Prosser into office. You should know by now they are desperate and will say and do anything.
Well, they did.
It is NOT a coincidence that Prosser didn't get +300 votes or +1000, it had to be +7500 or more in order for the fraud to work. +7400 just wouldn't have been enough.
It seems that Kathy Nickolaus has a HISTORY with regard to questionable election practices:
The numbers were identical to the ones Nickolaus just reported. She claims they weren't imported into the spreadsheet, but if that were true, the discrepancy should have been 14,715 votes total.
Part of the problem is how she's using different numbers for the same conclusion. The difference between 14,715 and 3,456 is 7,403. Those would be the "extra". But in order to believe her, you have to assume the AP just let an entire town and a bunch of precincts stand at ZERO despite having reported in nearly 15,000 votes.
http://crooksandliars.com/breaking-news/conservative-waukesha-county-clerk-f
Recount: I just found 1800 votes on my netbook! Just kidding:)
United We Stand Collapsed We Fall
#1.19 - Fri Apr 8, 2011 10:11 AM EDT
Hold that thought bev while I fill up my lamp. Planning on doing some late night reading this weekend. BF's are quite illuminating.
As someone who is interested in what you all have to say {Whether you are right or left or in the middle} Could we please stop collapsing unless it's actually against the code of conduct.
The "Grim Weeper" cometh.
You just got my vote for that one.
During a crisis, MSNBC seems to double down on Obama fawning: this morning Obama is "Superman", and is credited with the following:
"The economy (which is improving). The BP spill (which was stopped). The tax-cut deal (which passed)"
My Gawd, are you padding your resume for a job in his billion dollar reelection campaign?
fiesty and bev are!
When the Democrats were controlled by the far left looney element, they were ridiculed, and rightly so. Now, however, the same people that were glad to ridicule the Democrats seem to be trying to shift the blame away from the Republicans by blaming the Tea party, but, the Tea party is as far right and as looney as was the far looney left. When will this country actually start to be governed by people with at least an ounce of common sense?
hq2 When they pass legislation banning campaign financing from unions, corporations and lobbyists. Then we can get people with common sense because the money factor has been eliminated.
richard - the media and printers will never allow that to happen, to much lost revenue.
when we start refusing to vote for incompetent people only because we feel we have to vote....."its our civic duty" Just say no should be for these sorry politicians that run for office. they are supposed to be for the people. give me a break.
As I have said many times before, we do not have a functioning legislative branch. Congress is owned and operated by the folks who like the current system because it benefits them. Period.
What we have today is a very fancy political theater, and very little of the posturing that we see on TV actually means a damn thing.
The same folks who own Congress also control most of the media info we get via advertising and "news".
So, basically, we are screwed.
The foxes who are guarding the hen house will continue to pick us off one by one (no "collective bargaining" or "class action" allowed), and if any of us happen to notice, they will just create a distraction and keep moving.
Just like in the Middle East, until the American people begin to actually understand who is "us" and who is "them", nothing will really change.
Here is a hint: This ain't about Democrats versus Republicans or public sector versus private sector.
Wake up or be next.
P.S. You do realize that whenever a politician wants to "privitize" something, that means giving a private entity (usually someone they know or themselves) guaranteed business to line their pockets versus enrich us all via the income going into the "guvment", right?
You are so right, Nash----privatization is really a code word for "our backers get to make more money and we get campaign contributions now and jobs for ourselves and family later."
It is beyond me that our country still faces monumental problems on all fronts and our politicians can't work together to address them.
I couldn't agree more Steeler Fan . . . hope you have a great weekend! :o)
Nashville - our country has no long term plan for anything, politicians on either side only think to the next election. The debt commission appeared to put politics aside to come up with recommendations. Putting a 75% approval rating on it seems to have been a ploy to ensure that excuses could be made for not embracing it.
BTW - who put the 75% requirement on it?
If one watches Charlie Rose's recent interview with big city mayors, one can see how they deal with finite/declining funding vs tax payer and public worker expectations.
http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11559
Nashville,
Haven't talked to you in a while. Noticed Fisher was gone, and Bud Adams won some sort of humanitarian award. Who would have thought.
I will agree, our politicians today are only about themselves. Getting elected and re-elected. They are all in bed with someone or some corporation. It is just too bad it has to be that way.
Have a great weekend.
BigBear62
Good to hear from you BigBear . . . hope you have a great weekend as well. (In terms of the Titans, lets just say I am glad that last season is over! :o>)
Nashville....
Every once in a while a voice of intellect & reason in a sea of citizens that argue the fine points of either party & their supposed positions on issue's. Thank you for that!
Let's go one step further with your suggestion.
Ban all political parties and eliminate groups of legislators working for a supposed idealogical or political position. Forcing elected officials to represent their constituants that elected them into office. Wether it be by district, county, state, or federal office. "We the People" can then demand the real changes required to correct the course for good ship USA.
Like no more private campaign funding, voting permanent terms limits on all offices, banning all lobbiests private or public. Take the money and power out and you might have real legislation happening locally and Nationally.
Keep you eye on the ball...there are very few of us that do!
A tempest in a teapot.
That's what this current exercise in budget theater amounts to. Kabuki dancers on both sides arguing about a few billion dollars here or there in the context of a $14 trillion debt and $1.5 trillion current year budget deficit. Be still, my heart.
For Republicans, this is just a scrimmage. The real game starts when the focus shifts to raising the debt ceiling and consideration of Ryan's proposed FY12 budget. Once we get there, few will remember (or care) which side caved in order to prevent a government shutdown. Or which side stood firm to force a government shutdown.
Remember that guy Willie Sutton? When asked why he robbed banks he reportedly said because that's where the money was. Well, the real money isn't wrapped inside the current budget contretemps. The real money is in the trillions of dollars of unfunded obligations in the entitlement programs. And the last best hope for the future fiscal viability of this country lies in controlling those skyrocketing costs.
That's where the real battle will be. What we've seen so far is just an entertaining appetizer. So let's be done with this nickel and dime stuff and move on to the main course.
Exactly Bill. This is just a warm up for the GOP. The real work starts with the 2012 budget, and Paul Ryan has put out a credible plan that will reduce the countries deficit. As expected, he was attacked by the Democrats, who apparently have no plan of their own, well other than to just keep to spending.
And a side note - Steny Hoyer had the gall to show up on the tv news to day, complaining about the GOPs 2011 budget plans. Steny, didn't you and that moron Pelsoi run the House, and Reid the Senate, when the 2011 budget was required to be passed? And you didn't pass a budget why again? Not one newsie asked Steny about that little fact. Gee, I wonder why?
Still at it, huh?
The net results of the full implementation of the Republican vision for America was the collapse of the housing market, the job market, and the stock market - worldwide. Wages down, expenses up. Rich richer, poor destitute. Surplus squandered, debt exploding.
You two, and the party you represent, have zero credibility.
Period.
President Obama is the one with credibility problems where the debt crisis is concerned, Nash.
Both the President's own debt commission and Rep. Ryan have submitted detailed plans to avert a U.S. sovereign debt crisis.
President Obama's only plan is his FY 2012 budget proposal...which adds $13 trillion in spending (nearly doubling the national debt) and leads to debt service payments approaching $1 trillion annually.
The debt commission and Rep. Ryan are the adults in the room, Nash.
President Obama...?
Not so much.
Dear Mixed Bag:
If you wanna blame President Obama for being too busy cleaning up Republican messes to have fixed all the countries problems before his first term is ended, that is just fine with me.
If you want to always ignore the fact that Republican policies haven't worked, don't work, and ain't gonna start working anytime soom, be my guest.
Obama, Obama, Obama.
Not one word you typed changes the reality of the situation, the crap you are peddling doesn't work.
Period.
The Obama answer to the deficit/debt problem is to spend more money. That is the wrong answer, especially with elections coming up. How do you think that will look when Obama is debating next year? "Mr. President, your opponent has endorsed the 2010 Debt Commission's report, you're Debt Commission by the way, yet you have no plan for reducing the countries deficits. How do you explain to the American people that you are taking this problem seriously?"
There is no teleprompter in the world that will help Obama with that question.
Well he did have to cancel his Cleveland trip today so after he's closed down the government perhaps he'll have a few minutes to devote to his debt reduction plan.
If the Debt Commission is such a great idea, how come none of the Republicans in Congress would vote to form it?
Now all of a magic sudden, a freaking panel of dudes is the ANSWER to all our problems.
You folks are beyond ridiculous.
Beyond.
How about this - corporations pay more than zero taxes. Rich people quit hiding all their money off shore and pay their taxes. Folks making more than an $100,000 a year pay a percentage of ALL their income into Social Security just like the rest of us.
Problem solved, and we didn't have to sentence any grandmas to die by pretending that they can pay their medical bills with a voucher for Ryancare.
Ya'll aint trying to solve no problems. Ya'll are trying to consolidate power and continue to rob this country blind.
I hate to do it, but I call bullsh!t.
Weak rebuttal, Nash.
Of course, the fact that I cited the Obama Administration's own numbers didn't make it easy for you, did it?
Sorry.
Now...what exactly is President Obama doing to avert a sovereign debt crisis, Nash?
From Bag's collection of broken records.
As usual, a dishonest distortion. The increases to the national debt are almost exclusively to the revenue shortfalls caused by the Bush Recession, , the two wars that Bush started but couldn't finish, and most importantly, the Bush tax cuts that didn't produce a single job. As this chart shows, Obama's contribution to the debt is a drop in the bucket compared to what the Republicans have contributed.
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/263031/DEBT-DRIVERS.jpg
And top o' the mornin' to you, too, Mr. Bag.
Nash-
Sixty-four U.S. Senators (32 Democrats, 32 Republicans...a super-majority)) have sent a letter to President Obama urging him to engage in expanded discussions about the debt crisis to include entitlement spending and tax reform.
Six U.S. Senators; Republicans Tom Coburn (R-OK), Mike Crapo (R-ID), Saxby Chambliss (R-GA), and Democrats Dick Durbin (D-IL), Mark Warner (D-VA), and Kent Conrad (D-ND), are currently working together to craft legislation based on the Plan submitted to the President by his own debt commission...a Plan the President has pretty much ignored.
Time for our President to lead, Nash...he may not have a lot of time, and the clock is ticking, isn't it?
Bill, Fairfax VA
Ryan's budget is garbage. There's no way that President Obama and the Democrats are going to go along with defunding the Affordable Care Act or the other nonsense in this bill, like making seniors pay an extra $6,000 per year to increase corporate profits while it cuts corporate tax rates and exempts capital gains from taxation.
Houston-
'morning, sunshine.
As long as you want to talk about it, I'll keep posting it.
And...no distortion, Houston. It is President Obama's own FY 2012 budget proposal that tells us that $13 trillion in new gross debt will be added over the next 10 years with debt service payments reaching $844 billion annually. Personally, I would call THAT budget proposal garbage, but you're entitled to your own view, of course.
Are you really going to dispute that?
Wouldn't that be dishonest?
Dear Mixed Bag:
You completely ignore my points and demand that I address yours. . . a perfect reflection of the "Republican Way".
Having the truth on my side keeps me from holding my breath waiting for you to join me. Have fun with your "Obama" fetish. If you held the Republican party to the same standard that you hold King Obama, you might have an outside chance of facing reality.
You have a blessed Friday in your own little world where all of our problems would magically disappear if only "Obama" would do what you say.
Nash,
You and all the other lefty Libs always forget that the Dems were in control in 2007 and 2008 when everything went Kaplooey. And the Dems had a super-majority in 2009 and 2010. They never passed a 2011 budget (which is their only job) because it would've looked bad before an election. Also, Freddie and Fannie, the main reason the mortgage crisis happened, are Dem programs (led by lefty-left-left Barney Frank). Social Security, Medicare, Welfare, Healthcare - ALL unsustainable lefty Dem programs which are bankrupting the country.
Hi Nash,
A HOME RUN! Thanks
Lynchmob:
And you always forget that Republican policies don't work. Never have, never will. I have restated that repeatedly, and not ONE of ya'll have refuted it.
Just change the subject.
Very telling.
Wow, Nash-
You guys really, really, hate dissent, don't you?
You really believe you can silence JoAnnaSmith1?
Or me?
Good luck with that.
Mixed Bag:
If I wanted to silence you, I wouldn't be wasting my time trying to talk to you.
Duh.
Let me know when you are up for a reality based discussion.
You need to be more aware of what's going on around you, Nash.
And...maybe save a little of that self-righteous wrath for those who want to censor the expression of ideas around here.
Before I forget...have a terrific weekend, Nash.
Nashville - what reality are you in? Where were the democrats during all the times you say the republicans were on their destructive missions. Where does the republican president Bill Clinton fit in when he signed the repeal of Glass-steagall act? Were the democrats smoking the same stuff or popping the same pills you seem to be today as the republicans ran rough shod over America as you insist.
The Democrats, like the rest of America, were enthralled with the rosy pictures painted for them by the corporate mythologists . . . if we just do it this way, everyone will prosper! Oh, it sounded so good, cut taxes and create jobs! Cut regulation and promote innovation!
What could go wrong, right?
American, you and I both know that money is the only thing being represented in Congress. All this "Democratic" versus "Republican" stuff is useful only up to the point where it is time to get re-elected, and these days that is all year.
Why is it so hard for folks to just say - "I was wrong. That didn't work. Let's try a new approach."
It is the constant attempts to redo crap that we KNOW doesn't work that bugs me the most.
P.S. Why is it that instead of facing the fact that we are in the mess because of Republican Leadership, the constant need to say "What about the Democrats?" What about them? Take responsibility for the good and the bad, and that will earn my respect. Finger pointing, selective amnesia, and straight out lies? Not so much.
Mixed Bag:
I hope you have a good weekend as well. (I have not been able to keep up with the daily twists and turns here at First Read - but that distance has given me the perspective to say this - if we remember why we are here - then we, like Congress, can work together as well.)
A pox on both of there houses.
A pox on both of there houses.
Nash-
Forget about First Read's "daily twists and turns".
Keep an eye on the very thread you're posting on at the time you're posting.
I'd be happy with that.
lol
Oh...
AND...have a great weekend, Nash!
It's hard to tell who is lying, because everyone's lips are moving, including the media covering this! It behooves the Dems, if they have any strategy at all, to make it appear that they are very close, but the GOP torpedoed the deal over the social/EPA issues. But I'm not at all confident that's the case. The liberal/moderate Dems in the House have been cut out of the equation - the House could pass a budget with Dems and moderate GOP, but Boehner won't allow that to the floor. The problem is on the Senate side, Obama has again left the moderate Dem Senators who are up for re-election naked and potentially having to defend votes on social issues. He could have cut this off simply by saying "no riders on the following issues." If the story turns out to be that the numbers were agreed to, bigger numbers were offered in sacrifice, or the Dems are simply working on wishy washy, squishy language on the riders - then that's the real story. And the fact that the media is finding this out makes them complicit in a back room deal.
Sometimes I really don't understand the parties. For the Democrats, all they have to do is offer up easily approved cuts like consolidating duplicate projects...the Republicans will have to back down or accept full responsibility for a shutdown. For the Republicans, if they replaced the EPA and Planned Parenthood parts with equivalent cuts that were not as heated, the could place the blame squarely on the Democrats.
Instead what we get is both parties acting like spoiled brats.
Bravo, republicans -- you've brought us to the brink of disaster over an ideolotic (ideological + idiotic) position that is opposed by more than 50 percent of Americans-- i.e., the defunding of Planned Parenthood.
The law is already clear that NO federal funds can be used for abortion. You've gotten your way on that issue, notwithstanding that I, as a taxpayer, don't get MY way on not having federal funds used to fund the Chamber of Commerce, which is nothing but a business UNION, or not having federal funds used to fund oil company subsidies, even though they are making record profits, have no interest in safety, and certainly don't care what effect their greed has on the economy in general.
And yet, having already gotten what you say you wanted, and having received all the assurances in that regard that are possible to get, you persist, despite the fact that -- and I'll repeat this slowly -- the majority of Americans do NOT want Planned Parenthood defunded.
So, now that we're down to the eleventh hour -- and just so the American people can clearly understand your position -- let's come clean on our zealotry. Exactly, what is it about "family planning," other than abortion, that you don't like?
Planned Parenthood should be funded by charitable donations, not the Federal Taxpayer. The Govt is BROKE!
Then so should the Chamber of Commerce and the oil companies. And until then, I don't want to hear any more about how we're too broke. If anyone doesn't need taxpayer money, it's the Chamber of Commerce.
And why, in that case, should taxpayer money be used to fund and guarantee small business loans. I have always thought that business could take care of itself. At least that's what your side says. Less governmental interference, not more.
Walk your own talk for a change.
Dahly:
Oil companies and defense contractors should be funded by charitable donations too. But they ain't.
I agree with you that they should not be on the Taxpayer nickle either. Only pay the going rates, not a dime more. The USA is not an ATM. Our Country is BROKE!
You do realize, do you not, that those two statements are contradictory. And who do you suppose it is that sets the "going rate" for defense contractors?
Halliburton and Blackwater, BP and EXXON, and NOT Planned Parenthood, are the ones who treat the USA as an ATM. If you're so worried about the deficit, then it's time you faced up to that. Because if you don't, we'll be right back here next year and the year after that and the year after that.
Read the US Constitution and see what Taxpayers are really responsible to fund with their tax Dollars. All others need to develop their own funding methods. The USA ATM must be abolished!
Actually, I've read that a couple of times, including in connection with the two Constitutional law courses I took in law school. So your condescension misses the mark by just a tad. And sure, we have to provide for defense. But providing for defense shouldn't be synonymous with enriching defense contractors. Why is it that public workers should be willing to sacrifice for the privilege of serving their country, but not Halliburton or Blackwater? Aren't they also on the taxpayer nickel?
And I don't think the Constitution says anything at all about oil company subsidies. And certainly not the Chamber of Commerce or small business loans.
I'm talking Tax dollars and cents and the Constitution. You're off on an irrelevant tangent. I am against ALL govt subsidies, not definitively in the constitution. A hard and fast rule of law that may be amended. Not a "living, breathing " document, subject to whim.
Dahly-1755482
Planned Parenthood should be funded by charitable donations, not the Federal Taxpayer. The Govt is BROKE!
your right so give Israel a call and tell them the 20 billion a year is all dried up.
Let me introduce myself: I'm an employee for a family planning clinic. We are funded by Title X and our funds have increasingly been CUT over the years. To defund Title X is ridiculous! We have diagnosed cancers, high blood pressures, diabetes, etc. Our facility is the only health care for the patients that come here. Without us, our patients would have nowhere else to do. They have NO insurance and can't afford health care otherwise. I've worked here nearly 13 years and we have NEVER performed an abortion. This is NOT an abortion issue, people... what we provide is BASIC women's health care (plus other services for men, also) and contraceptives for women who can not otherwise afford it. SHAME on anyone who wants to defund a program such as this!
Lori, they are talking about defunding Planned Parenthood, not all women's clinics. If they do defund all Title X recipients than that would be wrong and I agree that's not right. However, those clinics that do perform abortion, especially Planned Parenthood that has a long history of deception and exploiting women and teen girls, should be defunded. I have yet to see proof that tax dollars are not going to the funding of abortions and would really like to know who's policing that.
You can thank Planned Parenthood for this mess, not those that want to defund it.
Dahly, if you're going to champion the constitution, you should note that it specifies "promoting the general welfare". Welfare is defined as "well-being" or "health".
@BornAgain:
They WILL defund us. This is a FACT. We provide all the services of PP minus abortion. And, not ALL PP provide abortion. There ARE other offices, not only Title X funded, that perform abortions. 3% of the services PP offers has to do with abortion. If Title X funding is eliminated, then the abortion rate WILL go up. What we offer is low cost contraceptives as well as other services... without the low cost contraceptives unplanned pregnancies will be on the rise.
We save the government $4 for every $1 spent on Title X.
THIS IS NOT AN ABORTION ISSUE... this is a women's health issue. Period.
When the REpublicans got voted back into office. They ran on the platform of "jobs, jobs, jobs".
Now they have changed to "spending cuts, spending cuts, spending cuts".
Well come on people WHERE ARE THE JOBS? Quit going after social safety nets for the most at risk people, while overlooking all the tax breaks that the rich have gotten. These are safety nets for at risk people and if these are eliminated it will just end up costing more, from hospital room visits and costlier care. Taking a dollar from grandma, but taking a penny from the multi million dollar corporation is reckless, and insane. Some of these corporations pay no taxes at all. STOP ALL THIS.
Make the record breaking profits at Corporations and the top 2% pay more. The way the tax payer structure is now.... The middle class and lower income pay more in the tax structure than Bank of America.
Senator Bernie Sanders was right on this one. Quit giving all the breaks to the rich in this country. Our country now has 44 million that are living at or below the poverty level. Is this normal? No! And taking away from the poor to pay for the rich is inexcusable.
This morning on Morning Joe-ke, I actually heard Mark Halperin ask Steny Hoyer derisively WHY the Democrats had given the Republicans so much of what they wanted so quickly!?!?
You got that folks? Trying to reach consensus and actually put the needs of the country first and facing the reality of what type of political demagogues you are dealing with is a strange and perplexing phenomena that needs to be explained.
You cannot make this stuff up.
I can just see the Republicans head spinning behind the scenes . . . "Wait, why did they agree? It must be a trick . . . well we won't fall for it . . . we will NOT be agreed with!"
Did I mention that we are screwed?
Lawd.
Was even funnier when Steny agreed that spending had to be cut but couldn't come with any ideas of his own. Thought his head was ginning to start spinning.
When "compromise" becomes an evil and a sign of weakness, we are indeed screwed. Thanks for the Morning Joe-ke report---I can't watch anymore.
Alan,
If you honestly believe that the ONLY way to balance the budget is to cut out aid to poor people, I got some lake front property in Phoenix for you to look at.
How about corporations pay more than zero taxes, rich folks stop hidding their money and pay their taxes, and folks making more than $100,000 pay a percentage of ALL their income into Social Security just like everybody else. And end oil company subsidies and all the other private industry subsidies that basically amount to giving my tax dollars to folks for doing absolutely nothing.
Can you name one reason why we can't implement all of that like yesterday Alan?
Doesn't that make more sense than trying to make sure that teacher's don't earn a living wage?
We all agree that cuts need to be made, but starting at the bottom instead of the top is the issue.
No I don't but entitlements are going to be cut because there isn't enough money. Maybe half of the deficit could be cut by raising taxes and cutting defense, $700B - but that would mean a 50% cut in defense so best of luck there, but at the end of the day its entitlements that are the drivers, especially Medicare.
No problem ending business subsidies. I am pro-market not pro-business, which also why I'm against subsidies for solar panels and ethanol. But how much would that save? $40 - $50B? Raise SS? Would it go into a lockbox or just be spent like every other SS surplus? But again how much would that raise? Also, would you get more back the more you put in or would there be a cap benefits but not contributions?
I already posted that to go back to the Clinton tax rates and cut defense by 90% would raise around $1.1T. The DEFICIT is $1.5T.
Nashville - when are you going to realize that cuts need to be made across the table. You are using the false argument claiming that the poor, will be devastated by any cuts. Ryans plan didn't say anything abouit cuts, but of restructuring. Even if cuts are made across the board, who is to say they can't be refunded when we have a return to a sustainable economy.
If the economy tanks again because of our mounting debt, where is the government going to get the dollars to fix it?? I bet you will be dancing in the street then because now everyone will have the same income - $0!
Dear american:
I can tell that you have the capacity to think for yourself. This puts you ahead of most folks. However, you seem to need to put me down in order to lift your ideas up.
Republican ideology has failed our economy. Proposing that we keep trying it again is not a plan.
I am not "claiming" the poor will be devastated by cuts. The poor are devastated right now - and millions of Americans are joining their ranks annually.
This is a fact, not a talking point.
I can sense that you are wrestling with letting go of what you have believed in for so long. It's not about "being right". It's about "being effective". And the policies that Republicans have/are pushing are not effective, unless you are one of the lucky few with your hands in the cookie jar.
nashville - I commend you for trying to use carnegies "how to win friends and influence people" ideas, but you really need to revisit your posts and understand the concept of what the word "implies" means and the verbiage you choose to post.
In talking about repeated attempts I found this to be an interesting point from above...
Since medicare and SS still have continuing problems, maybe it is time for the dumb liberals and democrats to start paying attention.Also sounds like the repubs need to bring this little tidbit more out into the open for our approaching seniors to read.
Sometimes a good concept just needs to keep on being cultivated until it takes root.
BTW - Your attempt at condescension won't work on me either. I have gone thru too many recessions to realize that the liberal concept of big government is a failure (just another way for the elitist liberals to oppress the poor and middle class with misdirection) or that "I am from the government, and I am hear to help you"
american:
Perhaps I gave you more credit than you have earned.
Won't happen again.
nashville - you gave no credit, mainly just condescension. But please do keep up with your attacks on republicans and conservatives. They are good selling points on what is wrong with many FR liberals..
BTW - where were the libs and democrats while all the evils republicans did took place. At a BBQ? Out of state? Out of the couintry?
I agree. When a bill is brought forth they don't need to tack on a rider that they know would not pass plus another rider to hold the country hostage. The country support the troops what we don't support is all the citizens who are not required to pay taxes and the companies who take their work outside the country so they don't have to pay the workers.
We need to follow through on our vote. If the people voted in are going to use lazy, dishonest tactics, or what I call the Republican sidestep, they are not doing the job we are paying them to do. They need to be on a merit pay system, if your not doing your job you don't get paid.
I'm sure that "Boozo,the orange crying clown" will jump up and save the day! Just hum the Mighty Mouse tune and alas he will be here in an instant. "Here he comes to save the day" Mighty Boozo. Yea!
Amazing joanne, you haven't been collapsed! Lmao but you garnered 13 votes. It does appear that FR libs want to get the FR political unit back under control of liberals only and to conduct denigrating attacks on republican politicians.
Tell us joann on how you like promoting such an FR liberal ideal of "monkey see, monkey do" in your post 13.0? You and other libs do it so well!
Stand Tall and Strong GOP, "Progressives" are DEAD!
This budget thing is just a big distraction from what is really going on, the progressive agenda of pushing energy cost through the roof to promote their bogus green agenda.
If something is not done about the continual rise in oil prices the last recession will look like a summer vacation compared to what's coming for our economy.
Va Ind, the last recession? I didn't know that the recession that started in 2008 during George Bush's last term, had actually ended. I guess the Obama stimulus must have worked afterall!
Va, get a clue! oil prices are spiking because of increasing demand in China and India, Libya, and speculators feeding off the fear. Nobody that knows anything about oil thinks that oil prices are connected to the progressive agenda. That's just a stupid assertion for which you have no evidence or even a plausible theory. Oil is a global commodity and does not fluctuate in accordance with US environmental politics.
Joe - while true that oil prices can't be tied to the progressive agenda, that hasn't stopped many FR liberals from claiming that republicans and conservative agendas are the cause of Americas ills.
Interesting that you posted #18 below. It is just a republican spin machine?
Well my thoughts are if the Government want to have a shut down then it should be up to them to pay back for the shutdown instead putting it on the tax payers. Thats not far on the public to pay them for not doing nothing just sitting on their BUTT's while tax payers pays for their screwup. They should fork out the money and they will see what us low come people put up with about making things harder instead of it being easier for us. Maybe its about time for you not to have manoey in your pockets and see what is not
american... not sure what the FR stands for... yeah, liberals accuse conservatives for causing all our problems while conservatives accuse liberals for causing all our problems. nothing new there.
and I do get tire of the relentless spin machine that the GOP has become. Not that democrats don't spin, too. The GOP's spins seem more outrageous to me and therefore less easy to ignore... death panels, total government control, a trillion of wasteful spending (referring to the stimulus), global warming is a hoax invented by liberal scientists to get money, job-killing regulations. The list goes on and on and on. Are you suggesting that RNC talking points and the utterances of popular republican speakers like rush limbaugh and michelle bachman are anything other than relentless political spinnery?
Joe - point taken, FR is my acronym for these blogs "first read" aka first thoughts.
Thought "death panels" were the libs call to arms, as in when medicaid funds run low and they would rather save one with an expensive procedure with no reasonable expectation of "quality of life" over the treatment of thousands to maintain their present "quality of life"
Sorry, I visit neither the RNC or DNC and wouldn't recognize any fox or msnbc pundits even if you put a gun to my head..
Watch bloomberg tv for national and world economics and business reports. Commentators there have yet to skew any reports politically R or L. Like Charlie Rose as well for elliminating personal political slant in his interviews. Sometimes even catch the McLaughlin group and their sometimes lively discussions.
Definitely not a fan of big government or the concept of government wanting to control me or others from "the cradle to the grave"
Katherine Harris and now Kathy Nickolaus....It's hard to believe that Clerk Nickolaus forgot to hit a save button. Also, why is she able to repost vote counts electronically? This smacks of techno-vote fraud and manipulation of either software or hardware or both.
I'm happy that Planned Parenthood is the poster-child of the government shutdown. And thank you, FR, for saying it like it is: this is completely about continuing the culture wars, not fiscal sobriety.
Charie Cook is dead on right.... republicans won in 2010 because they were not democrats, not because independent voters have suddenly become right wing evangelical tea partiers. I usually end up voting for democrats, not because I like democrats or believe in big government liberalism, but because I'm deeply offended by the republican spin machine (death panels, swift boats, etc) and their constant attempts to push their version of religion into the US government. I can vote for people like Scott Brown or Charlie Crist, but not the Michelle Bachmans or Jim Demints.
Great post, joe----I guess the politicians' egos must be such that they just have to believe people wanted them in, instead of expressing anger/frustration at the other party. I say this about both parties.
DF reid holds up agreeing to republican cuts because...
"The issue is ideology, not numbers," he said.
He criticized Republican proposals to limit the authority of the Environmental Protection Agency and prohibit the use of federal or local funds to pay for most abortions in the District of Columbia.
"These matters have no place on a budget bill," he said
Gee senator reid, with a growing national debt, the issue IS about numbers, ideology be damned!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42467884/ns/politics-capitol_hill/?gt1=43001
One thing is very clear, obama and company wants to show us all on how little the scalpel really is in addressing our ever mounting debt. Looks like the washington politicians thinks that they can restructure our debt latter on either by printing more money or by America. becoming insolvent when no more buyers of our debt can be found.
american, one of the most outrageous deceptions is the claim that republicans are serious about the deficit. Ryan's half-assed proposal makes a full frontal assault on the gears that turn our economy, and threatens to place seniors at the mercy of un-regulated health insurance executives. Yet is only reduces the defict by 1/3!!!
Republicans are making a fatal mistake in pushing their religious and anti-government social agenda instead of making a serious effort at controlling the deficit.
The only serious proposal on the table is the deficit commission, which Obama and the democrats and all the republicans are ignoring because they're all scared to death that if they step on the toes of any of their rabid followers, they'll be kicked out of office.
I can't decide who ranks lower, congressional democrats, republicans, or Obama. Obama's trapped by his campaign rhetoric about tax cuts only for the middle class. the fact of the matter is that in order to reduce the deficit by any significant amount we need to end the $300 billion per year Bush tax cuts for everyone along with reforming SS, medicare, cutting defense, AND cutting discretionary spending. We're all just witnessing a political dog and pony show while we avoid looking at the real problems.
Joe - can't disagree with your observations on the republicans, but I don't see them as pushing any social or religious agend any harder than the liberals and democrats do on there programs, but politics are politics and voter bases can't be ignored by either party.
BloombergTv reported earlier this year that if one looked at the spending habits of either political party when they were in power, little difference could be discerned between the two on spending.
That said, the tea party and the republicans seem to want to make reasonable long term cuts to reign in Americas debt. The democrats seem to want to minimize the issue. Last year with the struggling economy no one pushed for cuts until the republicans used it as an issue to campaign on. What voter couldn't relate to having to make cuts when income was falling? Why shouldn't government be held to the same standards as the economy improved?
Can the republicans deliver? Don't know, they are still in the minority. Regardless, until voters again become complacent the republicans are offering more to control spending than the democrats. The caveat here lies in outside events beyond our control.
american... the republicans do deserve credit for having made an issue of debt and deficits. I'm less than impressed with their solutions. They seem to think we can fill a $1.4 Trillion hole in the budget with a $200 billion attack on their cultural enemies: planned parenthood, the EPA, NPR, regulations that protect consumers and the environment, the dept of education and energy, etc. etc. That they ignore the one agency that spends nearly half of all discretionary money (defense) suggests that their motivations are biased toward cultural rather than purely fiscal. Real budget reform has to reduce spending on medicare, social security, defense, and discretionary spending, AND raise taxes. Otherwise the deficit hole just gets deeper.
The tea party republicans are not focused on reducing the deficit. They are obsessed with reducing the size of government and want to tear it to bits like a pack of wild dogs. They don't seem to understand that our political-economic system has evolved over 235 years and that business and government are intricately intertwined. I'm afraid their reckless attack on the concept of government is going to throw a monkey wrench into our economic machinery and kill this fragile recovery.
Who needs abortions anyway? Shut the mess down.
The abortions will still happen regardless of what happens with the budget. Because of the Hyde Amendment, no federal funding goes to abortions. Planned Parenthood's funding goes to breast cancer and cervical cancer screenings for women.
You guys practically want a recession. Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.
Im a Pisces, and Im still upset that he just walked away from Libra like that. What would Scorpio think?
I don't believe in all that astrology stuff. We Pisceans aren't easily deceived.
Sometimes we behave as if the founding fathers of this country were not Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, etc. but rather Franz Kafka and George Orwell.
You left out Ayn Rand.
p.s. I'm Pisces, too.
If you look at the difference of the amount of the difference the budget is apart it comes down to 1/2 cent over the entire picture. Say it so!!
Hey Karbo, see this is the reason this country is in a mess because people like you who have little information form big opinions, there's already a bill on the books forbidding any Govt. funds to pay for Abortions! Planned parenthood, does women's health exams, like mammograms, pelvics, and yes they help them with family planning (which is different then abortion) if you knew anything you'd know that. So, it's not about abortion, any funds used for abortions are PRIVATE MONIES, they don't come from the Government, you could read up on it but then like BATSH&T Bachman, you'd rather spew uneducated dribble to the tin foil hatters who eat it up. And what about all that talk of JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, in Nov. oh, I see that's all it was, because it's the exact same scenario that we had under Jr, deregulation, defund, and obliterate the Middle Class, same programs different year! So here's a suggestion, since the Baggers won't let John of Orange budge without defunding Planned Parenthood, I want the Dems to put a ridder on that states that Medicare Part D (Prescription drug program) the VA and Medicare/Medicaid medical funds, cannot be used for purchasing VIAGRA or any other "get it up drug", nor can they pay for Vasectomies, or PSI test, or Prostrate surgeries!! At least that way, men and women will be on an even basis!!
Thank you for your comment! You are correct...Planned Parenthood is definitely about more than abortions! So many people are misled about the true purpose of Planned Parenthood.
Planned Parenthood got along just fine for about 50 years without Gov't money.
They can do without it now. Besides,only 1/3 of their budget comes from the Gov't.
http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2011/02/the_latest_attack_on_planned_p.php
Considering the government shut down, here is further evidence that the bluster that federal workers are overpaid is misleading.
_____________________
FACT CHECK: Are federal workers paid too much or unfair targets in quest for budget cuts?
Sam Hananel, Associated Press, On Thursday April 7, 2011, 3:08 am EDT
At a congressional hearing last month, Rep. Dennis Ross, R-Fla., said the average federal worker earns $101,628 in total compensation -- including wages and benefits-- compared with $60,000 for the average private employee. He was citing data from the federal Office of Personnel Management.
"Our taxpayers can no longer be asked to foot the bill for these federal employees while watching their own salaries remain flat and their benefits erode," said Ross, chairman of the House Oversight subcommittee on the federal work force.
But federal employee advocates claim a straight-up comparison of average total compensation is misleading. A disproportionate number of federal employees are professionals, such as managers, lawyers, engineers and scientists. Over the years, the federal government has steadily outsourced lower-paying jobs to the private sector so that blue-collar workers cooking meals or working in mailrooms now make up just 10 percent of federal employees.
That argument is backed up by a 2002 study of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office. It found that federal salaries for most professional and administrative jobs lagged well behind compensation offered in the private sector.
The CBO study concluded that the best way to measure the difference is to compare government jobs with those in the private sector that match the actual work performed. The CBO found that salaries for 85 percent of federal workers in professional and administrative jobs lagged their private sector counterparts by more than 20 percent.
Thanks for posting this Yellowdog . . . so hard to get any truth around the noise machine . . . but we have to keep trying!
Terrific post Yellowdog- it's so hard to get the truth out there. There are only so many hours in primetime on MSNBC to cover all the lies.
Hi Nashville Fan, thanks.
Pat, Boston saw your deal about the R Sox, 0 and 6 - ouch!
Texas Rangers are 6-0! :}
Hope all is well.
Yellow
How many custodians do you know that has this type of pay?
San Luis Obispo County Human Resources Department
CUSTODIAN (#01335)
We are currently accepting applications for this position. To apply, please click here to close this window and return to the Current Job Openings.
$15.47-$18.80 hourly / $2,681.47-$3,258.67 monthly / $32,177.60-$39,104.00 Yearly
Plus $695 per month for medical. And retire after 20 years at age 52 at 60% of wages!
Notice this is Starting Pay!!
This is a County job. San Luis Obispo County is a rural area. Largest industry is Agriculture,second is Tourism. Not what I would call an affluent area.
Mr Ross, like so many politicians, spins lies in order to score political points. Thank you Yellowdog for outing this GOP liar, and I hope you are as dilligent in outing Democratic liars.
Right On Yellowdog! Being a retired Federal employee myself I know that I wasn't paid as much as my Private, County, or State counterparts. My retirement income/benefits is also much less. Glad to see the truth on Government Salaries coming out.
Slodon,
Due to the cost of living in California, San Luis Obispo I would think that $32,000 - $39,000 is not a huge number especially if this individual happens to be a sole provider of income for a family. The poverty level line for the US is about $22,000 for a family of 3 so I would label this particular individual in the lower income class. Perhaps if a spouse augmented this pay the family would be considered middle class.
Ken - I'm a current state worker and have seen our latest legislature come after our benefits. There have been budget slashes, looming job cuts, talks of furloughs, conversion of Health care to HSA's, hiring freezes, no COLA increases or pay raises for several years.
Yet some of the public we try to help wants to see more cuts. Sad.
Mr. Mota - Thank you Yellowdog for outing this GOP liar, and I hope you are as dilligent in outing Democratic liars.
Joe - Can't say I am as equally diligent in outing democrats, after all I am a partisan. But I do try to be fair and will always listen to the other side. I call my own side out when what they are saying or doing is in my opinion wrong.
Hi, yellowdog, enjoying spring?
If the government does shut down it will be the 18th shutdown since 1976 so really it shouldn't be a big deal. What is a big deal is that all of the drama displayed by both sides does not bode well for our debt ceiling or FY2012 budget.
As a side note, I think everyone should view Charlie Rose's interview with several big city mayors concerning expectations of the taxpayer, city workers and how city government has to deal with them.
http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11559
the state and federal governments can minimize many budgetary issues, but city government stands at the end of the line.
Yes American am enjoying spring. Son just started with the church soccer league, thankfully for him a real coach is leading him this year in lieu of myself.
Can't say that I will agree with you, but will look at the interview. City governments do get some funding from the state and if they are cut off then there is no place to generate revenue other than local sales, hotel taxes. Probably won't comment on this late friday afternoon.
I am afraid to see how everyone reacts to the debt ceiling issue and the budget for 2012. This is the first of many budget discussions.
Boehener has the votes to pass a budget because any deal that he makes with Reid and Obama will be supported by the Democrats. So all he needs are a few reasonable Republicans to vote for it, and this is done.
So, clearly, the Republicans want a shutdown.