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Back in February, we reported that a government shutdown could end up costing the government more than it saves. Here’s an updated version of that post in light of a looming shutdown.
The prolonged haggling over the budget could end up having a very expensive consequence: A federal shutdown costs the government money.
A lot of it.
The Office of Management and Budget estimated early in 1996 that the first of two government shutdowns – for six days in November 1995 – cost taxpayers an estimated $100 million per day. The final price tag for that closing and the record three-week shutdown later that year - including back pay to workers who did not go to work over that time: Over $1.25 billion.
Other shutdowns have been costly too. According to the Government Accountability Office, a funding gap of just three days in 1991 rang up a $607 million bill, including $363 million in lost revenue and fees.
If Congress fails to reach an agreement on a stopgap spending measure before the current funding law expires on April 8, the federal government could be headed for the 17th closure since 1977.
The costs of shutdown
The executive branch of the federal government currently employs just over two million civilians – about the same number as it did in the mid-1990s – and requires hundreds of millions of dollars per day to function.
But why does it cost so much to keep the lights off?
First of all, pay.
The OMB requires federal agencies to maintain a contingency plan in case of a “funding hiatus” – including information about how many employee are essential for “military, law enforcement, or direct provision of health care activities” or otherwise “to protect life and property.” That would include air traffic controllers, national security professionals, key medical workers, and law enforcers, among others. But, in the event of a shutdown, “non-essential” employees would be forced to stay home until the impasse gets resolved.
In the 1990s, the 800,000 employees who were furloughed in November and the 260,000 who sat idle in December received a total of about $1 billion in back pay even though they could not report to work, according to a report by the OMB.
(That was a relief to many employees, who were uncertain for weeks about whether or not they would ultimately be paid. Robert Tobias, who served as the president of the National Treasury Employees Union during the shutdown and now teaches at American University, said that his organization and other federal employee groups dispersed tens of thousands of dollars in loans to workers who were unable to pay their bills without receiving their paychecks on time.)
There’s also the issue of uncollected fines, fees, and other revenues.
The Environmental Protection Agency, for example, failed to collect $63 million in fines because of cancelled facility inspections during the November shutdown in 1995. Uncollected airline taxes and fees by users of government facilities like national parks also added up.
There are also major potential trickle-down effects for the nation’s economy. Shortly after the three-week shutdown in 1995, the Interior Department concluded that the shuttering of national parks had cost related businesses and nearby local governments almost $300 million. A study conducted by the by National Parks and Conservation Association found that – even a year after the budget standoff – small businesses were still suffering from a lingering decline in tourism, especially by foreign visitors.
Contractors also suffered during the mid-1990s shutdowns. According to a survey conducted at the time by Signet Banking Corp., a third of federal contractors furloughed some of their own employees in January 1996. Many of those workers never received checks from their private-sector employers to make up for time lost.
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The US govt spends/wastes $4 billion a day, every day of the year that it borrows on the Chinese credit card. Who the Hell cares about another billion or two for a shutdown?? The country would be a lot better off if it just shut down Congress permanently.
Thank you Joe for being honest, you say what many of the right wingers are afraid to say, that they really despise our form of government, a democratic republic.
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL Deleted
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
First Read has never been particularly tolerant of dissent.
Just when you think the level of discourse can't get any lower...a new floor is excavated.
Joe in Albany
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL Deleted
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#1.2 - Thu Apr 7, 2011 8:33 AM PDT
Hahahahahahah. INDEED..........
Thank you Joe for being honest, you say what many of the right wingers are afraid to say, that they really despise our form of government, a democratic republic.
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What I despise is an INCOMPETENT form of govt like we currently have in place in Wasington, DC.
Hey, where's Feisty this morning?
Once again I would just like to offer a personal and heartfelt thanks to Nancy Pelosi. Sweetie, without you none of this would be possible.
Oh and thank you too Steny.
So Pat - I keep hearing about how you can't shut her down cause it'd effect the jobs and all, and how they are "this" close on the numbers. According to Reid it's now about the riders and policy.
So Pat, since when is NPR or Planned Parenthood an essential service that the country can't do without? De-funding them would have what effect on the economy?
You all really ought to get your story straight, and try to make it at least somewhat plausible.
Now, Feisty, what do you have to say today? Will today be a good day for you?
Patrick Salt Lake City
Thank you Joe for being honest, you say what many of the right wingers are afraid to say, that they really despise our form of government, a democratic republic.
Salt Lake City
Thank you Joe for being honest, you say what many of the right wingers are afraid to say, that they really despise our form of government, a democratic republic.
I second that endorsement Patrick
Mitch McConnell and Rush Limbaugh made it abundantly clear when they said they want President Obama to fail because they say it daily.
They have done any and everything to compromise this brilliant, patient President. He has bent over backwards to make things work even at the cost of angering some of his base.
But you know what I admire this man for for his class and ability to want to keep America from going back; back to deregulation, 19th century working conditions; spread of disease and economic loss due to the lack of healthcare, lack of education, foreclosures, homelessness, Jim Crow laws, Prison and Military industrial compounds; because if it were me I'd tell the GOP/T-Baggers to kiss my black @aa. I'm done with your greedy demands and lack of ethos.
What do the puppets to corporations and the Koch have to worry; they are mostly rich?
But you know what? Karma is gonna deal retribution to them and the t-baggers who know the truth but refuse to access it. In fact mother nature has already dealt her universal effects in Wisconsin' look out more is coming
And there you have it - mother Gia has spoken and her work is Kloppenberger.
Now I know Bev knows nothing about Klopp's positions, outside of the one, but see we had us a disaster of a Supreme Court judge here in Cali back in the 70's. That justice was such a disaster she was removed from the bench.
Yep Bev. Karma is at play here. Go luck Wisconsin.
So Bev. what is your girl Feisty going to do after getting the big heave ho? Man I sure hope she stands up for herself. After getting totally mis-treated like that by FR there is no way anyone with even a shred of self respect would ever come back.
Right Bev. you just can't stand for not just mis-treatment, but being silenced.
Joe. Ok, except you said "permanently" So what would you put in its place? An Imperial Presidency? ( Obama ) Anarchy? I would love to know what form of government you favour.
Oh? Where in the Constitution is THIS provided for? Or is this the gospel according to Koch?
I understand your feelings. I had to live through Republican domination from 2001 through 2007.
That's the point exactly, Spanky. If there is no effect, what are the Republicans so worried about? You mean it's NOT really about the economy?!
What you do get is congress will continue to get paid while the other federal workers go without.
what
Needing some Attention areya there SteveO? Maybe if you hadda Life, you would'nt havta post 7 post that actually say NOTHING!
I hope the powers that BE shut this site Down, until someone figures out how to runit! Since it went control of NewsVine, it's been a POS!
exactly My Intention. but you should go back and Re Read. It was 8..............
And yet here you are Rick.
You love us, you really love us and can't get through the day without us.
I get you buddy.
Well, well, well, Spanky finally wokeup! I come here for the Laugh Value Spanky, because Jon Stewart does'nt comeon till 11 pm EST.
Whats your Excuse?
Nevermind, answering questions is'nt in your Realm of experience, Only asking!
Oh, no Rick I am always happy to respond.
Out here in Cali it's 9:08 am. having some coffee and planning my day. Today I got a pile of jury instructions to correct, a cross-exam of a forensic accountant to draft, and a setlement and release to revise. Now since the settlement means my client gets a nice check, that'll be priority number one. Plus the cross is totally boring.
Oh, and interspersed amongst all this will be basketball at lunch, and of course somehappy fun time with you and the gang. Multi-tasking, my man - give it a try.
Say Rick, you think Feisty will be back? Gosh I sure hope she stands up for herself and takes a stand.
So how about you Rick, got anything going other than the TV?
I bet if Spanker's clients knew how much time he acutally spends on THEIR issues, they'd pay him DOUBLE.
What a guy. (gal??- I never HAVE seen any posts that say he IS a guy...)
Say DBO - did you catch the financial reporter they had on MSNBC this am?
Very Fox-like, no?
But yeah, I should raise my rates. And I know this is totally lost on someone like you [dude with joe job, punching a clock and gettin' a w-2] but in my business it's about results.
All right there DBO? [best straight man eveh!].
a wonderful day
I just love watching the liberal Collaspe Posts..
Perhaps they can collaspe all mine on this board too.. What about it Carrie Dann.. Do you have any Comment on the Liberal Collaspe Cowards today?
QUICK! RUN!! He's gonna 'splode!!!
But to be fair, Steve- IF this 'thing' you are doing DOES cause the 'collapse' feature to go away for good, then I will be the first to applaud you! I mean that. I will even take back 'dumb-ass' from the other thread.
Drive By.
It doesnt matter whether you take back the Dumb ass comment or not. I dont care. I know i am not one. but it sure does show your Mentality.. some people would call Name Calling Bullying... as a matter of fact i have seen you use it too......
Kids.
Buy 'em books, and they eat the covers.
Kids.
Drive By,
You speak from Experience i am Assuming. Did you eat the Covers off the books your parents bought you?. Or could they not Afford to buy you books?
Steve please allow Drive By to post away.
He is the one of the best moles to whack around here.
Go DBO!
DBO - prediction time. Will it shut down, and if not who will cave?
Come on say something funny.
"Come on say something funny.'
OK:
"Spanky"
Come on, you can do better. Oh, wait, you do realize that is not my actual name, right?
So DBO can you believe how badly mis-treated our gal Feisty got this am?
What will you tell her to do? Take a stand, or slink back in and pretend it didn't happen?
Uh... why would I tell HER to do ANYTHING? I'm not her keeper.
Are you?
Definitely not here keeper, but there is all that time yu spend with her at the Inn.
Still Nothing from DoMenico or Carry ... Why Not. come on share with us Your Wisdom on the Liberals in a concerted Effort to collaspe all Conservative Posts..
Should i hold my breath?
I guess I am not sure what the issue is, conservative posts get collapsed, progressive posts get collapsed, seems very democratic to me.
Who is DoMenico and Carry?
I couldn't Hold my breath Any Longer... Just letting you know i am breathing Now..
They collapsed Feisty's posts and I said nothing because I was not a liberal firebrand, they collapsed U.S. Navy's posts and I said nothing because I was not retired military, they collapsed Louis's posts and I said nothing because I was not a dogged writer, then they collapsed my post...and there was no one left to object...
Golly Amy that was brilliant. Did you come up with it or did you, umm, barrow it from someone?
So Amy, how's your governor? Anybody trying to kill him today?
What did you do when conservatives' posts were being collapsed, Amy B.?
Did you speak out in righteous indignation?
This is funny, it's like we have a mini-government shut down happening right here, on ole First Read!
Something tells me the Independents aren't going to appreciate this kerfuffle any better then they appreciate the one in Congress. It's a lose-lose situation. PS restore Feisty!
No I think Amy spends her time reviewing classic literature.
You know so she can plagerize the good stuff.
Bad Amy.
MADISON, Wis. (AP) -- Wisconsin Democrats say they have enough petition signatures to recall another Republican senator over his vote on a bill that cut collective bargaining for state employees.
Party leaders say they'll turn in more than the 15,300 signatures Thursday needed to trigger a recall of Sen. Randy Hopper of Fond du Lac.
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The Republicans are attempting to destroy the Unions so that the Democrats will be less powerful in 2012 with raising money.
Destroy. Destroy. Destroy. Destroy. Destroy. The working people in this country.
This is what the GOP is all about. So they can get back into the White House and line their pockets even more, if that's even possible.
Why stop at unions? Why don't we just continue on our path to destruction with our military. Here's an idea. Let's not feed and house our military families here with young children. That will teach PRESIDENT OBAMA!!!!!!
Think Progress:
Gates is correct. While troops will earn pay during the shutdown, they won’t actually receive any money until the budget crisis is over and the federal government is fully operational again. That means that military families, many of which do live paycheck to paycheck, will have difficulties paying rent and utilities or even buying food.
Indeed, the Navy Times reported yesterday that, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service, “an extended government shutdown would severely hurt military families and require the military to organize financial help for those who don’t have savings to cover bills.” “Families with a second income and with substantial savings might be able to manage with few problems,” the CRS report said, adding, “Others, particularly deployed personnel with young families and limited savings, might be affected very badly.”
Pat maybe you should send that article to Harry Reid and tell him that he needs to compromise on cuts and start making some actual cuts so the troops can get paid.
Steve--this liberal is not collapsing any posts today.
Good for you..
But Steeler. With only the Usual Liberals on this Board We know without a Doubt that it is Them that are Collasping opposing Views.. but they will come here and try to Claim its not them..........
Kinda like yourself, Steve?
Across the Planet, there's all kinda KeyBoard Warriors, yet None wanna admit that Words are so Powerful, that they choose to Collapse them.
Pathetic Bunch that does that!
Me personally, I could care less about the words some put in these Tubes that connect us. But evidently, Words are Toxic to some on this site.
In my 1 Man CoffeeParty scream "SHUT IT DOWN"!
Rick, ky
Yawn............................................
I never vote to collapse JoanneSmith or NoJo because although I disagree with them, they keep it civil.
I think I have only ever voted to collapse a certain Juevenile poster who makes incredibley offensive comments.
I don't know who it is that collapses Louis, Feisty, Independent Redneck and U.S.Navy daily, but I don't approve of collapsing posts just because one disagrees with their position.
I was upset to see a post of Feisty's was deleted today, and there was NOTHING inflammatory or off-topic about it.
Rick, KY,
If the Federal government shuts down, how can all those military aircraft show up for Thunder over Louisville? For those who are unfamiliar, Thunder includes one of the largest air shows in the country, military and civilian. It has included over-flights, at low levels, of most of the best and newest hardware that our country has to offer. The only friendly way to see some of these aircraft. and you don't want to be seeing the unfriendly way.
Also, this should be interesting for the economies of Louisville (lots of military contractors), Ft. Knox, and Ft. Campbell. All those troops and NO pay.
Of course, there won't be any coal mine inspections either.
The economy numbers are getting better. Oh no!!! What should we, the haters of the country, do about that?! I know -
We'll demand that they shutdown the government.
This is the Tea Party's answer to President Obama's re-election.
Shut down the government. Leave people out of work. And the people out of work, with no paycheck, will effect the economy - negatively. And so the answer is to shut it all down.
And of course, people will blame President Obama right?
Um, no.
But they're too stupid to figure it out.
So pat, what do you think the energy costs will do to those numbers?
Are you in favor or against QE3?
Every since George Bush let the rich control and rape our great country, it has never been the same.
He destroyed U.S. and now our government can't even function because of the greedy; power hungry; blood thurstly Republican /Tea Party.
Our Democracy is failing; as the Powerful and Rich buys the media and our politicians. IN turn they dispell proproganda against our own President and it's people and try to shut down our government.
Our politicians are servants for the Rich; these dirty crooks win elections using dirty tactics and lots of money funded by the people that intends to control and dictate this country's policy.
We are slowly becoming the old Soviet Union - but the dictator is hidden behind gated fences and afraid to show their faces.
They let their money buy their puppet leadership; set back and watch their bank account grown...as the American people decends into a 3 world country.
Thank you George Bush - you were successful to your masters...I sincerely hope they filled your bank account...I am sure Dick Cheney's overflowing.
The oil companies and spectulators love you - they wouldn't have been so fortunate in raping U.S. with outrages gas prices if it wasn't for you George Bush.
Thank you and GOD BLESS AMERICA
Oh wow, I couldn't even get through the first sentence before my BS meter pinged in the red...
Obviously a historian, a history major, or maybe the democratic soldier is 22 years old.
Seems to be a slight lack of historical perspective.
But cool, we are back to Bush.
Ok Soldier has Obama just been totally powerless to do anything? Was Bush so all powerful that nothing can ever be done?
Or is Obama a servant to the rich also?
When you work for private industry, if you are furloughed, you don't get paid. Government will pay you if you work or not. Taxpayers have got to tell the politicians, government employee unions and employees, if you don't work, you don't get paid....just like in the real world.
And ALL PAY for CONGRESS MEMBERS and the PRESIDENT/VP are not paid since the government is out of money. AND NO BACKPAY....PERIOD.
Our troops will be fighting and bleeding but not getting paid, so anyone not working doesn't get paid or backpay.
Former TSA Supervisor,
Do you consider TSA critical to protection of life and property? I mean this is the context that TSA and ATC (Air Traffic Control) sre essentially contracted federal services to private enterprise, the airline and air-freight industries. Why does the operation of these industries rise to the level of critical national interest? What did we do for over 175+ years before the rise of these businesses? Electronic media and communications have supplanted the need for most business meetings. On-line courses and seminars have replaced many training sessions. And what interest is served by another ten plane loads of customers to Las Vegas?
Likewise, does the cruise line industry deserve better treatment than National Park visitors? Can't we close our passenger ports as well?
Finally, can you speak to what the much-maligned TSA agent actually makes? I don't mean the high ranking manager or supervisor, but the same person that we see going throught the security lines. I think this might surprise a lot of people.
I was dissapointed to listen to NBC world news and a very suspious Wall Street Journal poll. I am also dissapointed to find the same people bickering on first read as I clock in after noon.
This I can tell you. I am 66 and have lived in good times and bad times and raised by parents who experienced the great depression, in fact my mother, 94, is still a vibrant, active, and concerned tax payer.
just before the great recession she told me it reminder her of the times before the great depression. now, she says it still reeminds her of those times. she also stated that the best times where from FDR up to Regan, a time when people prospered and everyone played a role in this country, a time when most people cared and helped their neighbors, but not so now.
I collect social security and medicare, two programs I paid into, my 401k I guess, and I like those programs and therefore I like what I receive for my money and no one has a right to touch that money! It is not government money, it is insurance money. it is not an entitlement it is something we all pay for. SO KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY MONEY!
KR,
Actually SSI and Medicare ARE entitlements (something that you are legally entitled to) because you and your employer paid payroll taxes to fund those benefits.
Politicians, on all sides, have perverted the language, making the term "entitlement" a perjorative, likening it to "welfare" or an unfunded subsidy or a giveaway. SSI and Medicare are neither. They are mandatory government-run annuities with legal obligations on both the worker AND the goverment.
However, the same politicians have politically meddled with SSI and Medicare to their own advantage. Election year laws granting SSI bonus payments and COLA's in excess of either wage growth or cost increases, all courting the senior vote. Meanwhile, they add riders and benefits to Medicare without increasing the tax; by reducing the fees paid to the medical service providers. And these cuts are even done selectively by urban-vs-rural and by region. This has led to many providers now refusing Medicare patients.
If I proposed removing SSI and Medicare from the debate by FREEZING SSI benefits at their current levels, and returning Medicare to its former, more equitable, structure; WOULD YOU SUPPORT THIS? By freezing benefits, I mean no more COLA's or bonuses.
Actually, Supplemental Security Income (SSI) is a government welfare program for the disabled. All payees receive the same payout for no pay in.
Cost Of Living Adjustments are based on increasing costs, of living.
Medicare is a premiums-based health insurance program for seniors and some disabled, not an entitlement.
Social Security Retirement (SSR) benefits are the result of a government annuity program, underwritten to provide proportional payouts based on pay-ins and years of relevant employment. It is threatened by the prior mismanagement of the program, not by those it was built to serve.
Entitlements are non-recipient funded welfare payouts like Food Stamps, WIC, HEAP, and Extended Unemployment Insurance Benefits. The XUIBs should be one payment amount for all, rather than how it now is. That alone would provide limited ongoing support AND a little more incentive to find work, while reducing program cost.
Corporate welfare eats away at the government's bottom line, while weakening its oversight and enforcement responsibilities. It should be the first to go, before citizen benefits are restructured downward.
Social security was never set up to be an individuals only money for retirement, it was only to be a supplemental income for seniors. I am a senior myself and have saved through the years like everyone was supposed to do and not depend on social security and medicare alone. A person gets a lot more out of social security than we have ever paid into it I am willing to forgo up to 25% of my social security if it was spent for deficit reduction to ensure a better life for my grandchildren. Seniors like myself are paying way less than what we should be paying for healthcare, yet their are so many think that it is their right to have everyone else pay for them to constantly visit the doctor for the slightest reason that anybody under 65 would not schedule a appointment to see a doctor for.
As the clock winds down on the most recent Government budgetary extension, we the people are left in a cloud of uncertainty. Sure, most of the White House windows will be boarded up, the Presidential fleet will be leased out to rap moguls, and President Obama will finally be able to cash in at an ultra-exclusive, white-shoe Wall Street firm--that's all obvious--but what about the rest of us?
http://scallywagandvagabond.com/2011/04/government-shutdown-who-will-assume-power/
Congress absolutely should not be paid. Any congress person who does not relinguished their pay should be voted out of office. Congress needs a wake up call. The american people need to stand up and let them know we will not take it anymore.