Louis J;

Great post this morning. The politicians just do not care how much damage they will do to this country especially the Middle Class while they play their games. Many people are going to suffer. We use our tax refund to pay our property taxes. Now I may have to dip into my retirement savings to pay it on time. I may also loose my Military Pension for a period of time as well.

Not good for America.

LouisJ:

Just yell Boo!!! to the GOP.

They're afraid of everybody and everything. Especially those who aren't white, fat, over the hill fake Christians.

Rep. King, Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani - Booo!!!!

Louis J:

It just never changes. No ideas, No Morals just a dictionary of bad names. It makes them feel important, at least in their own minds.

Nice posts keep up the good work and ignore the trolls.

What a difference a day(s) makes. Yesterday Democrat JoAnne Kloppenburg beats the incumbent Republican Justice David Prosser in WI.

Glenn Beck is getting booted off FOX, I wonder where the right is going to go to get there talking points now?

The position vacated by Governor Walker in his successful bid for the Governor of WI falls to another Democrat, Chris Abele beating Jeff Stone by a 61% to 39% margin.

A least on Republican State Senator had a recall petition filed against them and another is supposed to be filed today or tomorrow.

The people are speaking out and the GOP/TP better take note.

Louis J, well said.

Shutting down the Government is being treated as fun and games, it's a joke to the House Tea Party folks but none of them is losing their paycheck. According to one last night, it's unconstitutional for them to pass a bill saying they won't be paid if Govt shuts down. These so-called legislators have no thought to eliminating the paychecks of nonessential workers, park rangers, janitors, etc. as long as they get theirs.

The GOP/TP is going on STRIKE by shutting down government, something they don't think other public and private sector workers are entitled to do.

My guess is the right is collapsing themselves to play some mind games--liberals believe in free speech even when we disagree.

The GOP/TP Theme Song

Courtesy of Archie Bunker and "All In The Family"

"Boy the way Glen Miller played, songs that made the hit parade, guys like us we had it made, those were the days, and you knew where you were then, girls were girls and men were men, mister we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again, didn't no welfare states, everybody pulled his weight, gee our old Lasalle ran great, those were the days!"

Well said, Bev. One of the things I always try to keep in mind when changing things is that there's always a reason why things are the way they are. In the case of the GOPTP's dream to dismantle Medicare, then, it would be instructive to go back to 1964. At the time medical insurance was pretty affordable, yet still only 14% of Seniors had insurance? The reason was refusal by carriers to write policies on most Seniors.

Ryan's budgetary attack on the middle class would resume the legality of preexisting conditions clauses. Once again nearly all Seniors would be ineligible for coverage--even before receiving his totally inadequate vouchers.

There would still be an alternative for Seniors--continue working a long as our bodies hold up, hoping we don't have to go without medical care for too long before we finally die. Connecting those dots it links very nicely with Conservatives OTHER plan to increase unemployment and drive down wages. http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2011/03/monetary_policy_7

FR: *** Progress, but is it enough?

Only for the Right Wing T-Bagger nutoshphere who belive:

a) cutting taxes raises revenues

b) corporations should not trust (err hate) the government

c) the free market will solve everything

Of course, this holds true because the definition of doing the same thing over and over again with out positive results is crazy. T-baggers are crazy.

". My guess is that next week’s no. 1 on the lefty liberal Hate-list will be The Donald."

Don't now about liberals, but I heard Don on Moring Joke this morning, and the guy's a complete pompous ass and a bona-fide "ME Firster". I know the repubs are gonna LOVE the guy!

(BTW- how much of a bean bag you gotta be to get collapsed before 8:30 in the morning??)

True American, you say anyone that says what the dems are doing is out of touch? what are the republicans doing? please explain... you do know that nothing is seriously been done about deficits right? the whole fight going on in Washington right now is not about deficits. It's about politics. And guess who gets left behind... your du*mb behind egging them on. You have to understand that republicans can't just continue screwing the middle class for their friends in high places. There has to be a line in the sand drawn somewhere. That's what's going on in Washington.... not deficit reduction measures.

And don't get me started on Ryan's proposals... they are radical and will continue to screw the middle class... since it's simply Scott Walkers plan magnified - the government slash taxes for corporations and the rich (and close loop-holes - yeah, like that's going to happen)....and pass the burden on to the middle class.

I know you love and believe in Capitalism because you think it will benefit you..... but what has made America truly great is a lil bit of Capitalism mixed with a little bit of socialism (i.e. Progressive Tax Rates) = stronger middle class and a stronger America. You guys need to get your heads out of the gutter sometimes and think and not resort to the same on rhetoric spewed by Glenn Beck and Hannity (Two uneducated buffoons - their job is to rile up the air heads within their base).

Joey Albany, I'm glad the Beckstar is off the air

Tunde:

Good post and right on.

Think Progress: PENCE LETS TRUTH SLIP ON UNCOMPROMISING STANCE: WE'RE TRYPING TO SCORE A VICTORY FOR THE REPUBLICAN PEOPLE

PENCE: Well, I don’t know if we’re checkmating. But we’re trying — we’re trying to score a victory for the Republican people, for — for the American — for the Republican people — trying to score a victory for the American people, not for the Republican Party. That victory is going to come in stages here.

_____________________________

This budget fight has ZERO to do with money. It's all about making their screwball constituents happy. You would think our U.S. Government would rise above all this.

But no. Not the GOP. They are classless, with zero integrity. Zero.

Last week, I was in the uncomfortable position of being an observer at a conference of European economists discussing the global economy. Bloomberg/CNBC international seemed to attempt to mitigate the the damaging data by releasing records that proved that, in October 2008, 70% of the Feds emergency discount loans were given to foreign banks.

That's right- 70%. While these funds have been repaid, it is clear that the move was made to protract, primarily, the EU. They did not say thank you- in fact, the opportunity was taken to reiterate the blame for the crisis. FAFSA's decision to rate all mortgage backed securities as having zero value, which brought down Lehman Brothers and threatened the entire financial sector was once again trotted out- with good reason. Face it- there was never any reality behind the thinking that every single mortgage in the U.S. would default.

It was a stupid move with dire consequences, which has some bearing on the situation today.

Greece is in the position of having no access to credit markets. Their failure to cut their deficit spending on their own led to the global credit market doing it for them. They are not going to be alone for long, it seems.

Portugal's inability to address the deficit in that country led to the collapse of the government. Elections, scheduled for June 5 of this year, may exacerbate the issue- no pollution wants to run on reality, it seems. Better to "blue sky" everything.

The lame duck prime minister, just today, has asked for an EU bailout- absent an austerity plan, he will probably not get it.

Spain seems to have tank to heart the message it was sent last week- cut spending, or face having to access to the market. What was deeply disturbing to me was the consensus that, while it had been considered that Spain was too big to allow to fail, that thinking had been reconsidered. Along with that thinking was the thinking that so, too, was the U.S.A. Should that thinking prevail, raising the debt ceiling would be a moot point- we will not have access to the market.

This is not idle conjecture. The European Cental Bank, (ECB), for the first time in forty years, has split from the Fed, and is raising interest rates. This will have the inevitable effect of making those higher yielding bonds more attractive than Treasuries.

The view of U.S. fiscal policy is dim, indeed. Much was made of European austerity measures, (despite those who have had to be led kicking and screaming to reality), versus U.S. stimulus policies. It is believed that these U.S. policies threaten global recovery- there was not one person in the room who believed otherwise.

We were compared to Ireland, which just initiated a $142 billion bank bail out- protecting investors at the expense of the government. Since Ireland's debt is now 150% of GDP, it seemed an unfair comparison to me, but, at this juncture, who knows where we are headed.

It also happens that the conference was held on the same day that the unemployment figures were released, and I was treated, (before the announcement, given the six hour time difference), to one of Obama's own economic advisors giving the explanation for most of the improvement in the last three months- 99 week unemployment benefits.

The scheme works like this: while those collecting these benefits MUST be counted as unemployed, (because you must actively seek work while collecting benefits), as soon as they run out, those recipients get automatically dumped out of the labor force- because they have been unemployed for so long. The cynicism of this policy is breathtaking- Mr. Goolsbee's aide seemed immune to the criticism that playing politics with the economy this was would have devastating results. It was, in fact, his opinion that the most important point of this policy was that it kicked in in time to get unemployment down enough so that Obama would be re elected- as if that were the most important part of any economic policy.

The attendants and participants seemed to have a contrary notion regarding this.

The Middle East unrest, a result of global food shortages, was addressed at length, given that the price of oil, on that day, broke $107 a barrel. It was remarked that cone prices had escalated by 30%, and that, while Obama had been forewarned of the dire consequences of such a rapid rise in prices, he had not addressed the issue. In fact, ethanol production was increased, instead. Now, as a result of La Nina, there will be wheat shortages, as well. Coupled with the need for Japan to become a net importer of food, global inflation will take off, with ultimately more Middle East and Third World unrest.

All in all, not a very happy time.

I think Lois hits it right on the head. Seriously folks. The main thing being cut here state wide is education. Well, guess what: they already took the largest hit to their budget since the housing collapse. Housing prices drastically dropped all over the country. House prices are what sets how much money is collected by the school districts. Collectively, our schools lost billions. Now, the rebublican retard clan comes in and in their infinite wisdom (and I suppose because they realize kids can't vote against them) they are further attacking education funds. Strike two against Education. Well, now we have news that home prices are falling again, and are now at the same lows they were when the housing bubble burst. Our schools have been desimated, then robbed, then desimated again and the republicans still want to cut money for education before cutting wasteful spending on defense (one report by pentagon officials showed over 100 billion could be cut without affecting military readiness) or medicare/medicaid or social security.

Give it a rest republicans. You are proving your ignorance here by following these tards you elected into office blindly. It is obvious they have no foresight of what their actions will cause. I want cuts as much as you do, I just want the right cuts. Let's deal with wasteful spending before cutting programs that are helpful. Defense budget has already shown they have some wiggle room for us that would surpass Boehner's goal.

No reason to get upset chief. Please post the Table of Contents.

Chapter 1.0 Screwing the People

Chapter 2.0 Paying the Rich

Chapter 3.0 Robbing from the Poor

Giggidy

:^/

That is the farthest thing from the truth that I have ever read......progressive tax rates keep the poor POORER and the rich RICHER......Let me explain.....as a person of lower income gains more income (i.e. gets a raise) they are taxed MORE; thus taking a little more away from them. There is no real upward mobility; there is only higher tax.....thus negating any real increase in their standard of living. They never actually have more because it is taken away in higher taxes, where as a person who is already rich pays the same amount no matter how much MORE money they make. The "progressive" tax rates do nothing except, and pardon the expression, but keep a brother down!

Does ANYONE actually believe this? Really, we're making the case that taxing people at low incomes less than those at high incomes KEEPS THEM POOR??? That expecting those who can most easily pay taxes pay a marginally higher rate KEEPS OTHERS FROM ACHIEVING??? Wow, the ultimate in talking out of both sides of your mouth. Conservatives also want you to believe that the rich don't work as hard under progressive taxation because there's nothing in it for them.

Oh. My. God.

Yesterday Boehner was quoted as saying there is no light between him and the Tea Party. Ok, they are tight and Boehner is playing to his base. He said he doesn't even like the word "compromise" and he won't do it. The President will present himself as the cooperative one and the Tea Party leader is presenting himself as oppositional. When there is an impasse, the coopertive, willing-to-negotiate side always wins. Always.

Just like I thought.....you can't read it, because you might have to see what's in it.

I read it. There was nothing in it.

But I would have let that stand. Res ipsa loquitur.

Judge Joe:

Who said, that all the school sessions the kids in Wisconsin were missing was a great lesson in Democracy?

A judge did, when she denied an injunction to the Madison school district. They didn't appeal.

John B, Des Moines, IA

Well said, Bev. One of the things I always try to keep in mind when changing things is that there's always a reason why things are the way they are. In the case of the GOPTP's dream to dismantle Medicare, then, it would be instructive to go back to 1964. At the time medical insurance was pretty affordable, yet still only 14% of Seniors had insurance? The reason was refusal by carriers to write policies on most Seniors.

Thanks John

Actually Glenn Beck was hired to take back the New Deal which repugs have been trying for decades by disparaging it.

BECK: OK. I want you — please, if you're watching the show today, you got to watch it until the end. I'm sorry, that's just the deal, you're trap, unless you leave right now — because you have to understand this in context. And I want to — we're going to show the progressive agenda and how the country went off the tracks 100 years ago.

Everybody says, "Oh, Glenn Beck is saying this about Barack Obama."
No, I'm not. Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson, that's who I'm saying it about.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,514839,00.html#ixzz1IqkP4iB4

Beck produced some a fierce, funny, yet disturbingly illogical, thoughts; but ultimately Beck went over the line when Beck dreamed up the Bushes wanting to build a Caliphate; I think. Even the mean old neo-con Uncle Pat Buchacan of MSNBC and Bill Kristrol had to admit Glenn Beck had fallen off his rocker.

This is so Laugh Out Loud funny too me;Glenn Beck the road runner is sent on another wild goose chase after Wile E Cayote

There would still be an alternative for Seniors--continue working a long as our bodies hold up, hoping we don't have to go without medical care for too long before we finally die. Connecting those dots it links very nicely with Conservatives OTHER plan to increase unemployment and drive down wages.http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2011/03/monetary_policy_7

I've said all along that's a part of the Master Plan

Hi no joe,

Thanks for the continental perspective. It is amazing what reality lies beyond our liberal MSM, even beyond RCP and NRO.

Meanwhile, back at the asylum, Feisty got an imaginary award and personal visit from Obama, the "real" imaginary leader.

Missed your comments - glad your back.

If cutting taxes was good, then why are there still no jobs? Why are corps making record profits, and are making their employees suck up wage freezes, less insurance for more money, working harder with less people. The big corps hire temps for 1 year and lay them off so they don`t have to give them benefits. Retail hires but gives them just enough hours to not receive benefits. I know 3 people personally that work 2 part time jobs just to survive. They have no health care insurance and cannot afford it. In my state of Wa. also on a budget will only provide health care to children (THANK GOD FOR THAT) The republicans are so out of touch, when their base starts feeling the heat, will it change then?

Glad to be back, bob. I wish the media, rather than running full steam ahead with the Democratic caucus talking points, would do a little reality reporting, rather than ignoring the issues until it is too late to do anything about it.

I was never before so shocked as to hear calm, rational discussion about closing the credit markets to the United States. Perhaps if it had been reported here, there might be some movement on the part of the Democrats to get real.

Spain heard the message loud and clear- they embraced the austerity measures they had been resisting, and were able to float bonds at a reasonable yield.

I wondering any of the "professional journalists" on this or any other site would like to do a report on what the effect of not being able to sell bonds would be on this country?

They never will- until it is too late. Instead, we get the "Obama is the only adult in the room", ( the Europeans beg to differ), the Republicans are at odds with the Tea Party, the Tea Party is extreme, and, oh, yes, "it all begins with us".

Too bad that the truth is that the destruction of this country is what has begun. At least Obama made it easy to know who to blame- he and his idolators.

Last week, I was in the uncomfortable position of being an observer at a conference of European economists,...

__________________

Uncomfortable because you were out of your depth?

I kid, welcome back,...

@no joe, no bo, nj

A FAFSA is a Free application for Federal Student Aid, not an organization. Using the wrong acronym makes you sound more idiotic than you usually do.

Dear Batman:

How is Robin? Batgirl? Things in the Bat Cave?

I meant to type FASB, of course. I meant to type "corn", and not 'cone'- I suppose that was too nit picky even for you.

Now that you have succeeded in finding something about which to complain, would you care to comment on the rest? Or is your area of specialty yelling gotcha when the ipad strikes again?

To address your point about the 99ers who are still unemployed after they fall off the roles, you are saying that even though they are still unemployed they no longer count as enemployed. So ANY statement to the effect of unemplyment being below 10% is utter hogwash because when they have been on the list for too long they are just no longer counted. The real unemployment number i would guess is somewhere closer to 30%. As far as FAFSA it was just the easiest thing to call you on in your delusional right wing propagandizing rant.

i see you have no response. I am not a gotcha person I am simply pointing out the unabashed ignorance by which you post to these threads.

Batman85:

You rock today.

Thanks Navy that is high praise indeed.

US Navy Vet,

The bad circumstance this shutdown will put you in is another good example of why this BS political posturing by the Tea Baggers is not good for Middle Class America.

The GOP didn't gain a super majority in the House of Representatives. They have an incredibly weak majority. That is not an overwhelming mandate by the voters, despite what you prevaricated idiots would like to believe about yourselves.

I'm starting to think that it's about time to round up all of these Tea Baggers, toss their sorry a$$es into the Boston Harbor, and tell 'em to start swimming back to England where they belong.

I have to Say if Louis thinks "we are not broke" , I really don't know what it will take to convince him. If I were taking 40 cents of every dollar I was spending from my grandchildren for my personal finances , I would consider myself "broke". I am not exempting myself, but we need to look in the mirror. If we can steal all the next generations money and still don't consider ourselves thieves and just as greedy as we accuse corporations and wealthy, then there is no hope for us. We may just as well call the game over and give up now.

If the politicians cannot find $60 billion in waste to cut that represents 4 % of the one year deficit and you guys think Tea Party is unreasonable this is nuts. Believe me, the $60 billion is only peanuts and will not save the US. If you want to continue denying the our country cannot go bankrupt the same as you are I can, you will soon be in for a rude awakening. Tea Party folks are way more honest with us than politicians from both parties have been. Soon the US will need all tax revenues to pay the interest on debt, just we would if person credit credit cards were maxed out . This is by no means the main event. Eventually , we need to seriously decide what to do or there is no country. You can call me all the names or whatever, you want, But this is what it sure looks like. The fact that folks are bickering about this minor stuff scares the hell out of me.

It's not about cutting spending, it's about exactly what the Tea Baggers want to cut, which is basically all the things the Left hold dear. Education, environmental protection, Planned Parenthood, the FDA, etc.

As with trying to axe Planned Parenthood, these pseudo-christian Tea Baggers would rather see single moms struggle like hell to raise a child on their own that they didn't want to have in the first place. And don't give me that same tired old BS about fornication and abstinence. Nearly all of us have been guilty of that at some point in our lives. Accidents happen. Contraceptives don't always work. You guys aren't as capable of pulling out in time like you try to claim to poor girl.

MSNBC:

Jobless claims drop more than expected

Fewer people applied for unemployment benefits last week, a sign that layoffs are dropping and employers may be hiring more workers.

The Labor Department said Thursday the number of people seeking benefits dropped 10,000 to 382,000 in the week ending April 2. That's the third drop in four weeks.

The four-week average of applications, a less volatile measure, declined to 389,500. The average is just 1,000 above a two-year low that was reached three weeks ago.

Applications near 375,000 are consistent with a sustained increase in hiring. Applications, which reflect the pace of layoffs, peaked during the recession at 659,000.

The number of people seeking benefits has fallen for several months. The four-week average has dropped by 28,750, or nearly 7 percent, in the past eight weeks.

Think Progress:

But a new poll released tonight from NBC and the Wall Street Journal shows that Republican primary voters are taking Trump’s run very seriously. In the NBC/WSJ poll, Trump is in a statistical dead heat for first place with former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and former Arkansas Gov. Mark Huckabee. Among Tea Party members, he’s doing even better. From NBC’s Mark Murray:

“You’re fired” isn’t a message Republican primary voters and Tea Party supporters are telling real-estate mogul Donald Trump, at least not yet.

__________________________

Tea Party supporters. Ignorant, self-absorbed morons. They must really despise President Obama if they’re supporting the likes of this Donald character.

Nice going Trump. You freakin’ embarrassing fool. Have you no dignity at all? You're lying in order to create some media, which is all you have ever been about. And now you are exploiting the Tea Parties. You are encouraging them to hate even more than they do now.

btw, how many mistresses are you up to? Lucky you have money. Cuz you are creepy and always were.

Ron & Feisty:

How embarrasssing these people are. They are doing all they can to take America down. After spending a lifetime taking and taking and taking. But don't let ANYONE enjoy the benefits they had throughout their life. That is their message. Simpletons. Angry. Boring. Haters.

Donald Trump - when is his next bankruptcy?

Did you catch Rachel last night? She couldn't have been more clear - The GOP are destroying unions so they will have zero power in next year's presidential election.

Sounds kind of undemocratic to me. But hey. That's the road the GOP has been going down for over 30 years. And we have their apologists here in First Read.

Adam Green is my hero. I know he doesn't like President Obama, but Adam is a very educated man, who could be making tons and tons of money in the corporate world. Instead, he has decided to spend his life as an activist, helping working people.

I'll never forget what he said - "I would wake up every morning, thinking about what I could do to get Barack Obama elected."

I love this guy.

Great comments USN and Pat alike. Especially on the efforts Ryan has gone to in order to rob the middle class. The Pentagon gets their color copying budget reduced. The elderly do without health care.

Sounds about right for that bunch on the Right.

Ryan only has plans for the rich... everyone else, get in line at the soup kitchen. Nice plan.

Giggidy

:^/

Pat, great post. Especially enjoyed your take on Trump. NBC should take a page from CBS's handling of Charlie Sheen and say to Trump "you're fired." Trump's rise in poll numbers with the GOP/TP tells me the GOP is in big trouble because the whackier and more outrageous the candidate sounds and behaves, the better they like the person.

It’s sad that that the trolls-tea baggers really don’t have an ounce of compassion for others. Is it just plain meanness or flat out hate that creates the, I don’t give a Damm about others attitude, along with it’s my way or no way?

It's a shame that the Tea Bagger Caucus cheered when Speaker Boehner told them that the government could be heading for a shut down. I question what kind of American would wish for this to happen. Certainly, not an American you can have any respect for.

Come on people, you have to know that these cuts are nothing more than an assault on the poor and middle class with an extra punch to stick it to the President.

To here the trolls-tea baggers rant and rage, all Progressive are low life un-Americans. Well, they need to look at themselves in the mirror and ask themselves what they represent and believe.

The bottom line is we aren’t going away, so you have better face that fact and STOP the hate. This country is the United States of America in the year 2011, and not 1950.

Remember, many of the freedoms and joy in your life begin in your own head. If you choose to be heartless toward others, well you have to live with yourself.

Pat, the reason unemployment claims are falling every week is because people are running out of benefits, not because they're finding jobs. My daughter has been unemployed for over a year and her benefits ran out four months ago. According to the "statistics", that must mean she is now gainfully employed?

Valarie,

These are “first time” claims not ongoing request for benefits.

What makes me laugh is Boehner trying to hide his obsfuscation of this administration. Bush opened the door to extensive "executive privilege". Now, Boehner and his henchmen think it's time to slam it shut whenever their party doesn't win an election? BS.

The reality is that The Boehner Bully Boys have a back room agenda. Tear down this presidency so they can go right back to the Bush era policies. If President Obama fails to bring the economy around in 4 years, Republicans have their platform: Bad Obama, Couldn't Fix the Bush Mess Fast Enough. Bad Obama, he had to spend more to avert a major global financial disaster...Bad Obama he's after the rich who don't pay enough in tax revenues and now there's a huge shortfall the rest of us will have to pay.

And isn't it such a pity that according to government tax records and the GAO show that 2 of 3 corporations paid no federal income taxes from 1998 to 2005? Isn't it a pity that the total US companies trapped in untaxable overseas accounts is now at $1.2 trillion? Isn't it a pity that Exxon-Mobil pays $15 billion in 2009 when it recorded its 1st of 2 historic profits in the worst recession since the Great Depression? Isn't it a pity that at the end of 2010, the US corporate profits rose to 37% and yet in 2009, corporate taxes accounted for only 6.6%?

So..let's see now...not enough money in federal tax revenues and huge increases in corporate profits? And that won't equal a mess when the bills come due? What do Republicans do to pay those bills? Cut out the source of the bills? Yes. Just not the ones owed to Halliburton or the former Blackwater.

It's time to force the Republican hand...Show us the real costs of that Iraq war, not the ones they like us to see. They owe taxpaying Americans transparency and now...there's no excuse as there might once have been for their lack thereof.

If Republicans continue to force individuals to pay more in federal taxes and corporations and the richest 1% pay less...I guess they won't mind losing THEIR jobs through recall. A nation-wide recall to get rid of these rich asses who are paid by John Birchers and billionaires to dump their debts on us.

Great post as always Navy... it's called "Redistribution of Wealth" from the middle class to the wealthy. Walker's plan on steroids is what Ryan is proposing. I don't know why people keep voting against their best interest.

US Navy. As always, a factual post, great job. Last night, someone finally pointed out the beltway media's shallow look at Ryan's so-called prosperity plan and looked at the false claims and the fact that the numbers just don't add up.

The NBC/WSJ poll indicated not many people think the country is on the right track but when talking about it they placed that as a reflection on President Obama. I think they've missed the boat in their analysis. That right track/wrong track poll number most likely reflects the reaction voters have to the union-busting, budget busting, tax cuts for the rich and concessions from teachers, fire fighters and police going on throughout the country. Buyer's remorse in Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, Florida, Iowa. People are angry and frustrated with the direction the GOP/TP is taking the country not the President.

Man, you're unraveling at the seams chief. SMH. Take a chill pill.

Giggidy

:^p

I picture them foaming at the mouth right about now! LMAO!

First, still no compromise on the proposed shut down of the government. The Tea Party still wants it all or nothing policy.

You haven't been watching the debates. I can tell. Besides, even if that were true, the Democrats stomped that toothpaste tube during the health care debate and you seemed to like it then.

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

"You are encouraging them to hate even more than they do now."

You said it much better than I could of this morning Pat! Thanks!

Sorry, I didn't like Bush, liked Powell & Rice, & respect the constitution that the Democrats wrote over half of. But to hear you talk about others being hateful is like the grench calling someone else mean. The Tea Party isn't hating people, the Bush bashers and far left liberals are the most angry bunch of people in the country. The 2010 election didn't turn out the way it did because of the economy like Obama told you. He didn't watch anything but far left media himself and probably actually believes that. Every other station had people emailing, calling in, etc saying exactly why they voted the way they did. The left went too far and the independants were tired of being called names by the Democrats. Now it's time for you guys to get in the back of the bus, give the independants the keys, stop driving us into ditches, and hush because we won - get over it.

Tunde Akins

Great post as always Navy... it's called "Redistribution of Wealth" from the middle class to the wealthy.

Oh good grief. If you really felt that way rather than just looking for another "feelings based" political rant, you'd be angry at the Democrats for the bailouts to top execs paid for by the middle class taxpayers and the GE 0% taxes paid for over 5 billion in profits last year.

Keyboard Rambos are alive and well, when rhe Ist Read chapter of the Supporters of the Democratic Parasitical Party meet.

Excellent post, US Navy.

I commented on this 'Plan for Prosperity' yesterday on First Read, and you did a better job explaining the salient points than I did. The bottom line is that we see NO movement in actually dealing with the deficit nor do we see any reductions in Defense spending.

What I questioned is WHY this is being put out there NOW. This plan has no chance of being signed by this President, so why do it now? Is it pure arrogance that promts this? Are the GOPers and the Tea Partyers daring the Dems to stop them?

I guess time will tell.

Oustanding Job, US Navy on your post.

May have gone to buy a new keyboard and mouse. Rage likely drove him to break it.

Giggidy

:^p

True American.... I didn't respond sooner.. because I was actually working.

But man, take a chill pill.... don't be so upset that some people are not listening to you. In any, I'll actually take the time to respond to your post...

That is the farthest thing from the truth that I have ever read......progressive tax rates keep the poor POORER and the rich RICHER......Let me explain.....as a person of lower income gains more income (i.e. gets a raise) they are taxed MORE; thus taking a little more away from them. There is no real upward mobility; there is only higher tax.....thus negating any real increase in their standard of living. They never actually have more because it is taken away in higher taxes, where as a person who is already rich pays the same amount no matter how much MORE money they make. The "progressive" tax rates do nothing except, and pardon the expression, but keep a brother down!

The only solution to this is to reform the tax rates so that there is NO sliding scale. How can you seriously believe that penalizing someone for getting a raise is good for the middle class?....

Your post is the epitome of Republican ideology (non-malleable, immobile, and at best dense). you think the middle class are taking too much of your money that you worked hard for and want them to pay an equal amount; did I get that correctly? fair, flat tax or whatever you want to call it. Do you want to get rid of medicare/medicaid/SS/Defense? because that's your proposal when you want everyone to pay about same amount or same tax rate. You do understand that the top 1% or so, collect about 40% of the pay in our nation. So don't you think they should pay at least the top 70% or so... that's the American way....they can afford it, but taking that money out of the bottom 98% is not realistic because they can not afford it... and by the way 98% of the population better represents America more than the top 2%.... when you try to flatten the tax, what you have in effect done is raise tax rates on the bottom 98% of the people while easing tax burden on the top 2% or so. You get it , right? THAT WILL DESTROY AMERICA AND I'M NOT EXAGGERATING; Capish? The strength of this country is its progressive taxation system - giving strength to the middle class. The many are wealthy (if not monetary in this nation - but by the world's standards), nut just the elites.

And next time, before you call someone a coward, look in the mirror and ask yourself the same about yourself.... you may keep mum about it next time.

And Bro... take a chill pill.... it's just a blogging website.

Let's see, as a single filer you can make up to $34,500 in the 15% bracket.

After that you step up to 25% and maintain that rate all the way to $83,600. Can't see where that's punishing people for every little bit of extra income.

Next step is only 3 percentage points, all the way to $174,400.

Your argument simply doesn't hold water.

True American, I would love to say that you cannot really believe this crap, but I know that you do because I have an Uncle just like you. In fact, i am wondering right now if you are him.

Would it me nice if we did not have to pay as much taxes as we do? sure. Would it be as nicer to pay the taxes and have the programs that are out there that help our nation be the best nation on the planet? My answer (and most of the people out there, you are by far in the minority here... the only reason why republicans ever win for the most part is that a lot of the poor do not show up to vote) is no, I would rather have the benefits our type of government gives us. it allows you and I to own a home (government insured loans). it gives kids money to go to college. It gives us Police, firemen, armed forces, emergency response teams and equipment, health care for those who cannot afford it, public schools, enviornmental protection.

So, do we lose all of that because you (and people like you) are so stupid that you do not realize that your "Tax Cuts" will do away with the effectiveness of those programs? Seriously here man, you guys are the most backwards-thinking people I have ever seen!

How about finding where in all of these programs money is being wasted, and stop the wasteful spending prior to just "cutting taxes"? If the administrators are getting paid too much money or giving the money to their buddies, figure that out first, then write legislation that does not allow that practice anymore. Fire the people who are misapropriating funds. Figure out where the problems are first, then cut. doesn't that sound much smarter?

Furthermore, before you call another person a coward, Let's look at the budget and let's see who the cowards really are. 95% of the budget goes to defense, medicare/medicaid, and social security. Does your party tackle those entities with your beloved spending cuts? No, they go after education, health benefits including abortion, worker's union rights, EPA, and money to be spent on the oversight of our financial industry to make sure crooks keep their hands out of the process so our economy does not fail again due to greed. The majority of the cuts however are in education spending.

So who is the coward now? attacking our children's education sounds pretty cowardly to me. Let's see how it is gone for education in the last few years: School districts gain money from taxes associated with properties owned in their district. So, housing prices plummet nationwide almost (Texas and a few other states did not fall but that's about it). So collectively, schools lost billions in their budget. They dont cry about it like you are. then, you and your buddies elect the tea party retard clan, and now they cut education budgets by billions more. Now, they say housing prices are dropping yet again, and your elected friends are calling for even more cuts!

But, by listening to your point of view, this is all okay. As long as you have a few more bucks in your pocket come tax time, all that is okay. And you don't think you are cowardly. If you are what the country considers to be a "true american", then no wonder we are so hated after Bush Jr. was elected and screwed the way other countries think of us world wide... not to mention took the most booming economy the world has ever seen and squandered it in 8 years. What a great american you are! you should be so proud!

Well Done, Devon, Well done. Your post is right on the Money. I look forward to hearing what you have to say in the future..

Devon:

EXCELLENT POST. Please come by more often.

Fiesty I once again don't know why you were deleted as I said before although we disagree on some points I do enjoy reading your posts. I would like to actually read what people had to say and wish there weren't so many collapsed posts.

Fiesty I once again don't know why you were deleted as I said before although we disagree on some points I do enjoy reading your posts.

Thanks Lisa!

You know you're welcome over at the Dew Drop Inn anytime! ;o)

I'll join you one day but this week i'll be sipping margarita's on the Sea of Cortez. Across from you favorite Puerta Vallarta.

Devon and Tunde..... Enjoyed your posts. Thanks.

Lisa, Feisty gets deleted and collapsed by some manly men, trying to get her attention.LOL.....

Independent Redneck Va. Comment collapsed by the community

Paul Ryan is not what you think

By Matt Miller

01/24/2011

Imagine that President Obama said Tuesday night that it was time to get America's fiscal house in order and then proposed a plan that would not balance the budget until the 2060s - while adding more than $62 trillion to the national debt between now and then. Can anyone imagine Republicans hailing Obama as a "visionary fiscal conservative"? The idea is absurd.

But Republicans do hail House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan as a "visionary fiscal conservative," even though it is Ryan's "Roadmap for America's Future" that I've described (using cautious assumptions) above. Now that Ryan, with his State of the Union response, is becoming his party's most visible spokesman on fiscal matters, it's vital to grasp how huge the gap is
between the rhetoric surrounding Ryan's plan and its reality.

According to the Congressional Budget Office, Ryan's plan would result in annual deficits of between 3.5 and 4.5 percent of GDP between now and somewhere after 2040, with a balanced budget coming only around 2063. This would add at least $62 trillion
to the national debt over the period. (My estimate is conservative mostly because the independent Tax Policy Center says Ryan's tax reforms would produce far less revenue than Ryan required the CBO to assume.)

Ryan doesn't dispute these basic facts (though I believe this is the first time his actual debt numbers have been called out). When I asked him at a recent National Press Club event how he could put out a plan that didn't balance the budget for decades and added trillions to the debt, and still call himself a "fiscal conservative," he offered an evasive digression on how this just shows how tough the demographic challenge is. But it really shows something different: that you can't double the number of seniors on Social Security and Medicare and keep taxes at their recent long-run average of 19 percent of GDP, as Ryan's plan would do. Even after assuming entitlement reforms that most Republicans think would be politically fatal, Ryan's red ink never stops flowing.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2011/01/paul_ryan_is_not_what_you_thin.html

__________________________________________________________

Semi –serious question here folks.

Don’t you’ll of the more Conservative bent ever get tired of playing this game? Can’t presume to speak for the American People as some of you’ll do ignoring all evidence to the contrary but speaking just for myself it gets right tiresome and to be quite frank about it I’m starting to get to the point where I’m afraid that I don’t have enough years left above ground to waste on you. You’ll stand up and wave 3 sheets of blank paper and claim it’s a better Health Reform Plan. Heaven should forbid if somebody asks you any specifics ‘cause not only don’t you not have any but you know that if anybody ever looked close at what you really want you don’t want to acknowledge that it’s the same old Policy that wrecked us to start with.

So you go out and get a bunch of Yahoo’s elected to the Legislature. Stand up and beat your chest and tell us all about what you’re going to do with your new “Mandate” What’s the first thing you do. Stand up and take symbolic votes to Repeal Health Care Reform. Heck you’ll didn’t even bother to wave your 3 sheets of blank paper and offer it as a replacement this time.

So now you have a “Young Gun” with a “Roadmap for America’s Future”. Looks to me like you’ll should of got old Rand McNally to take a closer look at it before you published it. Appears to me that all of those locales have been abandoned and boarded up cause we like to have went broke the last time we tried to use the thing. Thank goodness somebody looked up just in time from perusing the thing to keep us from going over the cliff that they left off it. Near thing though. Enough to give a fellow the kind of shakes that take a long time to get over. I don’t think we have neither the money nor time to waste on a trip back down that Memory lane.

I don’t quite understand the problem here. Did you’ll have it so easy for so long that you’ve lost the ability to set down and review where we are now and come up with a workable doable policy that would stand impartial scrutiny so you can help us move forward?

Or have you relied so long on Negative Rhetoric, Outright Lies and Personal Innuendo to get you elected that you have forgotten that that is not the way that the system is supposed to work?

Couldn’t be either one of those now could it?

Good for you, IR! I don't believe in collapsing posts unless they clearly cross the line of decency. It is far better for those with outlandish ideas to express them in a forum like this, so people can decide HOW they want their country to be. I am not afraid of ideas different than mine. And if the right wing is secure in their beliefs, they should not be afraid either. The only thing collapsing posts based on ideas tells us is that you are not secure in your convictions. You know that your convictions cannot stand the light of day unless they are not compared to what others believe. That, my friends, is pretty sad.

Steeler Fan-380417
Great post, IR----it is amazing that these proposals are gaining any traction but they seem to be---as the article you shared says, Mr. Ryan is becoming the voice of his party on fiscal matters. It is scary
Job1
Good Morning, IR- Great Post.
The Ryan plan will go nowhere. It looks like it will die like a bad deal. Also, it's a great gift for Progressives to slam the Republicans and Tea Baggers over.
newdayDAWNING10
Precisely,IR. I believe the voters are starting to notice the real goals of the Republicans
Jody, Iowa
IR, excellent--you have the magic touch of down-home realism rooted in facts.
It should be obvious to any person, left or right, that Boehner's declaring the democrats as using "smoke and mirrors" is simply a reflection of what the GOP/TP is doing. They cut programs that help people while allowing huge and highly profitable corporations to retain their "entitlements" in the form of tax breaks. There is $4 billion per year in "entitlements" to big oil but Ryan & Friends ignore those "entitlements".
I'm thinking it won't take long before "republicans" distance themselves from Ryan's plan but when they do, just remember to watch what they do rather than listen to what they say. Smoke and mirrors is the GOP/TP's speciality.
John B, Des Moines, IA
Home run today, IR. It's amazing how consistently these brilliant Conservative plans turn out to be exactly the OPPOSITE of what's claimed. Just more destruction of the middle class, and as usual we don't even get the promised debt relief out of the deal. More of the same supply-side orthodoxy that brought us to this sorry place to begin with.
US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired
IR:
Great post today. The agenda of the right is becoming clearer every day. It is about Power and Greed and has nothing to do with moving this country forward at all. Every proposal seems to have something for the fat cats at the expense of the middle class. Their agenda is still to destroy or severely weaken the Middle Class in favor of Wall Street, Big Business and the Millionaires and Billionaires. They talk about being worried about our children and their children then turn around and gut educational programs that are designed to help all our children to get a quality education. They seem to think Health Care, a living wage and Education is a right of the privileged and not anybody else but them. Too bad, we are better than that (or at least we used to be).
Independent Redneck Va.
After perusing Mr. Ryan's proposal for the second or third time last evening it looks like to me that he's suffering from one or two problems
First I think that his staff failed to let him know that April 1st was last week.
Second I think that he hasn't gotten the word yet that Reagan passed away several years ago and the secret rituals to decipher "voodoo economics" are buried with him if they ever existed at all.
Independent Redneck Va.
Welcome home Navy dang glad to see you.
Pietro, Columbus, Ohio
Good Post, Indy Redneck. However, I am a bit puzzled as to WHY the GOP decided to trot this 'budget' plan out now.
They HAD to know that this 'budget' would NEVER fly with moderates and progressives. Why telegraph your REAL intentions now? There is no way - NO WAY - that the President will ever sign this budget as presented. There is no way that any economist worth his salt would endorse this budget.
So why now?
I liken this as a shot across the bow of the ship. It is a warning that this is the position that the GOPers and the Tea Partyers are going to take. They are not interested in balancing the budget at all, but they ARE interested in 'breaking' the backs of the people that work for a living in this country.
They are DARING the Dems to stop them.
What I find even more interesting is that there are many 'middle-class' people who actually SUPPORT this proposal, and will vote for it - even though it means that they have nothing in their older years.
We will see how this plays out.
pjam09
" They are not interested in balancing the budget at all,"
Wow you are delusional. Why do you think Obama's own budget commission (which he ignored) made the recommendations for cuts that it did?
Maybe instead of worrying about politics you should think about the future of the country, if you still can't figure it out I feel sorry for you.
It's not about campaigning or buying votes, it's about fixing problems.
US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired
Pietro:
You are 100% right on. This is their agenda and they are so arrogant of late they do not care anymore. They feel it is their way or the highway and they make no bones about it. That attitude just does not cut it in a democracy, but then again the GOP/TP does not stand for democracy. They support a different ideology where a few have it all and nothing for anybody else.
LouisJ
Republicans Quit While They "Were" Behind
Recall is needed more for many lawmakers beyond Wiscon"sin"
The GOP realize there are young voters in the United States
With the GOP shadowing the steps of President Obama and his template to rebuild America, they are attempting to paint a new face for the GOP, youthful looks.
The Republicans realize that America has a young generation. The Grand Old Party now suddenly remembers that babies were born after 1955 and that those people born after that date had children themselves that are now of a voting age.
Now that President Obama is the face of a generation that embraces unity and inclusion, the Republicans have broken away from the tainted TEA attempting to cast Rep Ryan as something new. This is an old tactic to the Grand Old Party, give the people a face and being the short term memory society we are, they will forget that people like Newt Trump will run us into the ground again.
But I really don't give all the credit to these guys, some of it goes to the media which will ramp this up and create a façade for the Republican Party to keep them relevant. When billions of dollars are pumped into networks, i.e. political, media, action, business, lobbying and others, they have no choice but to recognize the impact these propagandists have on society.
President Obama created his own atmosphere, unlike many people that rely on big mechanisms to carry them through. President Obama created a network of the people by the people and those of us that stand by the man will continue to prove the haters wrong.
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
allthumbs
Speaking of waving three sheets of blank paper, how do YOU propose to stabilize the country financially?
Jody, Iowa
pjam. The President's budget commission did NOT recommend dismantling and privatizing social security, medicare and medicaid. It also recommended defense spending cuts AND CLOSING THE TAX LOOPHOLES for big business and the rich AS A PATH FOR LOWER TAXES FOR ALL. Ryan's budget simply slashes programs that conservative ideology does not like and continues the TAX LOOPHOLES for the people who elect them. Analyze the budget commission's recommendations and compare it to Ryan's "budget cause" and then perhaps you can debate the merits of both.
lemp-1487085
w
Clara KCMO
allthumbs,
Well, first we need to call out a hearty BS when the next person says we don't have a REVENUE problem we have a SPENDING problem. The fact is BOTH are a problem. We cannot CUT our spending and balance our budget.
We need serious Tax Code Reform. SERIOUSLY! And we need to cut Defense OR charge other countries CASH for our presence in their backyards - if it is welcome AND leave if our presence ISN'T welcome.
Personally, if we didn't have such a TRUST problem with government, in general. The only thing at this stage of the game that makes any kind of sense is a Consumption Tax of say 1/2 % that is RESTRICTED to debt repayment ONLY. Now I haven't crunched the numbers, and I will admit that I pulled that number out of my kiester; but SOMETHING along that vein is the only thing that makes hard core sense at this point in time. Kicking this can down the road just simply isn't working. Cutting some of these programs that are already bare bones won't work right now because our recovery is still too sluggish and fragile.
IR, nobody does this type of common sense analysis better than you! You're the BEST!
american-2051576
IR - where does obamas meager $1.1 trillion dollar cut plan fit in with a timeline for a balanced budget? 2100? You do do misdirection well and no you can not speak for my family and friends.
Pietro - rather surprised that you don't understand ryans intent on introducing a long term plan now...
First it counters obamas, secondly the house has to submit a budget for FY 2012. Can't have a repeat of last year, can we?

Now where were we before we were so rudely interrupted?

Well said IR:

Now lets's see what happens. I don't expect the Tea Partiers to honor the code, but I do expect the moderators to fix this problem.

To our “Monitors” I’m not going to play any games with you either.

I'll drink to that IR!

Maybe one of the moderators could explain to us how a post that's been collapsed and then restored is ALLOWED to be collapsed AGAIN?

See LouisJ #1.1 under First Thoughts yesterday

I'm with you on this, IR. I don't agree with a lot of what is said here but I think it is important to know the opposing views and sometimes learn something from them. I only use the "flag" when people as you say "violate the rules of common decency." And I don't limit those flags to people on the right. I am sad that everyone who posts here does not share these basic positions.

The primary sticking point is NOT money at this point; it's these so-called "riders," like the Planned Parenthood amendment.

I am very, very glad FR made this point. I watched the NBC news last night with Brian Williams and I did not hear him explain to the public what the actual disagreement is between the two sides. All I heard was the political posturing, not the meat of the disagreement. I do think it's something the public is hungry to hear: what are the facts? I think we all know the politicians are using this issue to stake out their stragetic goals, but I think voters would like to know what is actually on the table. PS If I hear one more story about how a government shut down won't affect most Americans I will scream. The last shutdown, for 26 days, cost 1 billion dollars. Shame on the media for making light of what's at stake.

IR:

Great posts today. The first drink at the DDI is on me today.

Hopefully our monitors will do their job and enforce the CoH.

IR, well said. A DDI toast to free speech seems in order later today.

Amy:

Very true. It is now in the details of what to cut, not how much anymore. The dollars have been decided.

This is a game that I have absolutely no intention of playing.

Same here IR. They're all a little out of it. They see their party exploding right before their eyes, with all these GOP Governors in the tank. Wisconsin is going to inspire all D's to get out there and beat these jerks next year.

So they collaspe posts. Shows you what they're made of, doesn't it?

Which isn't much.

I don't think the moderators care about what happens. As long as there is traffic for the site, they are likely laughing it up.

Giggidy

:^/

Well, now, Indy Redneck:

You know I am probably your number one fan; but I've got a bone to pick with you:

"Collapsed by Community" has such a positive ring to it,...in some respects. When I see the word Community it invokes a feeling of SHARED commitment. A sense of responsibility that I am my neighbor's keeper. What is happening in our neighborhood is that some bullies and thugs have just set up a crack house across the street and they've decided to bring out the spray paint and tag their vindictive BS all over my house, your house and every other house up and down the block. And then they back their beater into my car, flip me off and peel away from the curb. You know the first couple of times they left their dog crap on my lawn I was willing to just clean it up and move on. But the fact is they've decided to double down their efforts to ruin my neighborhood and I AM NOT OKAY WITH THAT!

Like any strong neighborhood; we've filed a police report and we continue to wait while the investigations unfold. Now I don't know about YOUR neighborhood; but in my neighborhood, in the URBAN core of Kansas City - the police come to our HOA meetings and they ENCOURAGE us to form a citizens patrol.

I for one am leading that patrol to CLEAN UP MY OWN NEIGHBORHOOD. Bullies only get away with their crap if I let them intimidate me and have that power. This brand of bully that has decided to take up residency on our street and not use indoor plumbing is an affront on this site. I will not turn the other cheek while they carry my durable goods out the side door and then try and sell them at their garage sale.

There was a time for the high road; but for me, that time has passed.

Much like this BS going on in DC about the budget. You don't hold 1/2 of 1/3 of government HOSTAGE because you expect to 100% get your way. You Republicans have a responsibility to this COMMUNITY to do what is best for ALL citizens. Duty calls, now GET TO WORK!

There sounds like an “Urgency of Now” with a budget deadline looming on the horizon. However I don’t think it is as serious as the media ramps it up to be. We’re not broke. But that is what the critics of President Obama want the people to think. But this whole situation puts the Republicans/TEA Party in the spotlight concerning their patriotism as it paints the picture back to 1995.

Republican/TEA Party = Extreme measures… extreme response

No Soldier’s pay… Treasonous

No Police pay… Criminal

No Health and Human Service… Inhumane

No Infrastructure/Transportation Policy… Corrosive

No Counterterrorism… Devastatingly Dangerous

No Food and Drug Administration… Contaminated/Nuclear Poison

No Immigration/Minority Affairs Policy… Racist

No Budget Compromise… Humiliating and Disturbing

These are the extreme measures that the Republicans are willing to take just so that they can regain power. They truly, truly, truly believe that the American public is that naïve. However that may be true of those watching FAUX News because that is the only station they take their tripe to. They robots that obtain their thoughts and words from Failed Entertainers and Failed Governors have no peace of mind because the message of hatred and envy is continuously being pumped into their brains. The TEA is spiked and tainted.

Welcome to the Republicans United States of America… same as the old United States of America… fear, shame, greed, hostility, malice, envy, gluttony, suppression, segregation. They have had this same message for the past 20 years. If they haven’t changed by now, they never will.

United We Stand, Divided We Fall

And they are dividing “US”A.

There was a time for the high road; but for me, that time has passed.

Clara - You can't COUNT on this 'sista' to stand with you in solidarity!

Now let's roll! ;o)

Of course you won't hear the truth from the Tea Party members...these are anything but patriots out to save this country. With 2 billionaires and 1 very wealthy former Senator Armey footing their bills. You think Patrick Henry ran to his local billionaire to support his patriotic efforts to save the colonists from the British?

The hand that feeds makes the rules. This is true of media mogul, Rupert Murdoch, a hardliner extremist right winger who demands all of his media follow his ideology. Where are the First Amendment rights in place in that? Why would any of you think for a single minute the Bircher Koch brothers wouldn't make the same demands on the Tea Party?

What this says is that your Constitutional rights can take a back seat to Big Big Big Money and BS to that. Murdoch may think he's king of US media but he can go back to Australia for all I care. The same is true of the Koch brothers. A little too much spreading around of their billionaires for their Bircher causes and none of us will have a Constitution. Isn't that really what the Tea Party is after?

OK FR, how many more MONTHS do participants here have to tolerate being MUGGED by the collapse mechanism? It isn't "moderation" in any form recognizable on the internet. Comments that are CLEARLY abusive or otherwise violations of COH are allowed to stand EVERY DAY. Comments that in no way violations are collapsed, or in a new trend, deleted! I've requested reinstatement on behalf of posters who've not violated COH. Sometimes they get reinstated, sometimes it takes hours, sometimes it never happens.

The system is BROKEN.

HAHA!! Oh man, someone knocked his TEA over. Sorry about that man.

Giggidy

:^D

Good Morning All

Ryan’s Budget… Errrr… "Cause" How High Will It Go?

Remember, the boy Wonder said--"It’s not a budget. This is a cause"

No matter how many numbers the Wiz kid racks up for the rich, it’s still a low down dirty shame. Many poor souls who are simply uninformed will use the Wonder Boy’s cause in faith; thinking the cause is to a) to take back this country and b) prevent the county from falling off the cliff.

Seriously, Paul Ryan’s cause is a right wing dream. The greedy Wall Street Robber Barons have been salivating since Reagan to get their grubby hands on Social Security. If Medicare is given to the insurance industry it would get once AGAIN a mammoth taxpayer gift. More customers will be required to purchase their overpriced horrendous non service ; which will cost more ; you know the crooks at the top of the of the pyramid must make their gazillions of dollar salaries and stock options. Of course, they’ll provide less and much worse actual health care! This pyramid cannot stand. Its bottom layer is on the backs of middle income and poor people who’ll need re-enforcements they won’t get. The profit will be on the backs of our elderly and infirm that NEED real health care.

Isn’t it ironic how the media over at Fear Channel aka FOX NEWS aka the Republican Headquarters is calling our President a cadre of scary adjectives; mainly timid and fearful? The truth is the feckless one is the Majority Speaker of the House, John Boehner, who at this point is afraid to face Eric Cantor and the T-baggers.

Glenn Beck the End of an Error???

Just yesterday, here’s what Beck used his show to assert:

– Union leaders are communists, socialists, or revolutionaries who want destruction of “western way of life” [04/05/11]

– Maybe Obama decided to try suspects at Guantanamo to inflame the Islamic world [04/05/11]

– Obama is “merely a player” in a globalist, Islamist show [04/05/11]

– Showing images of Obama, SEIU, and others, Beck says he “would put a lot of these people in jail.” [04/05/11]

– Beck somehow linked 9/11 to Wisconsin election, budget cuts [04/05/11]

– Smeared students protesting in Wisconsin as Lenin’s “useful idiots” [04/05/11]

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/04/06/glenn-beck-out-at-fox/

I ‘m happy to see him mount his apocalyptic horse. like Paul Revere, as Beck himself said, and ride into the land of Looney tunes where he belongs. The only thing I regret is not having the joy to see the paramedics restrain him in a strait jacket and take him off the set.

• 10

• !

#1.8 - Thu Apr 7, 2011 9:25 AM EDT

Independent Redneck Va.

To our “Monitors” I’m not going to play any games with you either. I ask simply for you to do your job. Please keep in mind that you are getting paid and I’m not. I have absolutely no intention of policing this site for you. If one of my posts is collapsed I am not going to flood your inbox with angry demands. It reports to you so I will depend on you to review it as soon as you can. If it has somehow clearly violated the rules then let it stand and accept my apology for a mistake honestly made. If it doesn’t violate the rules then please reinstate it as soon as possible. As I said I think that is the least we who participate here can ask.

=================================================

I am compelled to echo Independent Redneck Va.

FR: how can you allow this site fall into the abyss ?

If you want this site to become a bastion of right wing vindictiveness, then all of the hard work and dedication your crew has put in for years is for naught.

I have always touted MNSNBC LIBERAL slant because you've 2 formats. right& left. So if you going to allow this I gi

I have always touted MNSNBC LIBERAL slant because you've 2 formats. right& left. So if you going to allow this I go.

I do not get paid here. I take great pride in my efforts to help contribute so that we all can express our points of view. However, this site is devolving and if you continue to allow vagrants to supplant your efforts as well as those of us who have been here for years; it will be your lost.

Do something before it is too late. I did not come to this site to have my voice silenced. There are so many other places that will not allow this.

I don't mind dissent; in fact I think it is healthy. But when abuse, I mean deleted and collapsed posts which have violated COH is permitted it is no longer healthy; it becomes sick and non-productive.

If you don't like posts being collapsed, don't make flame bait or bigotted comments. "Everyone who thinks differently than I do is *insert horrible assumption here *" is a perfect example. You can't really believe that EVERYONE who doesn't fall into a little niche category you created as the cornerstone of your world is EXACTLY the same way, can you? I know Beverly and Feisty do based on their daily comments. You should be glad those get collapsed. The hatred from the far left is distasteful to independant/undecidted voters.

Good Post IR and Progressive Friends.

What's with True Ugly American? Tea withdrawal?

Typo correction: I don't mind dissent; in fact I think it is healthy. But when abuse, I mean deleted and collapsed posts which have NOT violated COH is permitted it is no longer healthy; it becomes sick and non-productive.

For those reasons, if you can not get a handle on this abuse I chose not to participate.

What is a community and how does it regulate itself? This is the central premise behind politics and political discourse from the local to the national. While back I don’t remember how long now but I found a community. Come an evening I could print out a day’s activity within that community and take it out on my quiet mountain back porch and take a stroll across the various locales of these United States and visit folks just like myself who were interested in their individual communities and our national community. It was one of the few places that I found that had a lot of folks that were willing to take the time to express themselves completely and discuss the issues of the day in a way that they felt would grow both our online community here and their local and national communities.

I decided that I participate in this community and present a view point that may be a little different from some but may be recognizable by some others. I was very gratified to find some measure of acceptance and encouragement from the beginning not just from certain and select individuals but from the community as a whole. I found that participation here is very similar to participation in most other communities. In our participation here much is revealed about ourselves and our strength of character and interest in the betterment of both our online community here and our communities spread all across our great nation there.

So over time we have built a community here. We’ve celebrated births of children and grand children. We have done what we can to console each other in times of loss and Illness. We have had some very pointed discussions among ourselves. We have giggled a little at each other’s foibles and miscues. However in all that time I have never doubted in the voices that we have revealed to each other (and because this is a public forum accessible to all thus to the world) that most had the best interest in our communities both here and at home at heart.

Over the years with the participation of a lot of fine folks all over the nation and our hosts here we have built a community that we could all be proud of. I know I am and take a certain amount of satisfaction in the feeling that my contributions may have played all small part in that success that we have seen .

With this success have come changes. Msn has changed our format and decided to expand participation here by seeding links both on their main news pages but also in other forums and WebPages. This is both a blessing and a curse. While in some isolated cases I see some folks that are interested in expressing themselves in an effort to contribute to the betterment and expansion of our community both here and at home and I hope they stay with us and continue to help us build upon the foundation that we have all worked hard to put in place. That however is not the norm. Mostly all we’re getting out of the deal is bumper sticker speech with no expansion or frame of reference to any reality that I’ve been able to find. Quite frankly I cannot find any effort to better either our community here or their local and national communities embedded in most of it.

Our hosts have also seen fit to provide us with Newsvine for both administration and moderation. This again is both a blessing and a curse. I would consider the removal of threats of violence and other particularly egregious behavior from our daily discourse a blessing for the community we have formed. I also see that we are cursed with a certain segment of our community that are going to use any means necessary both within the rules and outside of them in order to stifle some discussions that they don’t agree with and control our debates so that the messages are more to their liking. We can see them crowing about having a New Sheriff in town. And we see our moderator apparently buying into the notion that the conversation here needs to fit into some narrow spectrum that is defined by those folks in order to fit their template of what is acceptable and what isn’t.

Our community didn’t get a chance to vote on this Sheriff just as we don’t get to vote on who moves into our community and games the system in order to stifle free and open debate. While this type of thing is deplorable to say the least it speaks volumes to the character of both our moderator and the segment of our community that has decided to pursue this course. I do not think that it reflects the true heart of the community here that I’ve come to know and love so very much. Actually the only thing I can do and I plan to do it as much as I can in the coming days and weeks is to call on both our moderator and that segment of our community that has started on this course to step up and display the same sense of character and honor that we of this community used to build that foundation in the hopes of sharing it with all our Friends and Neighbors.

Allen-968499

If you don't like posts being collapsed, don't make flame bait or bigotted comments. "Everyone who thinks differently than I do is *insert horrible assumption here *" is a perfect example. You can't really believe that EVERYONE who doesn't fall into a little niche category you created as the cornerstone of your world is EXACTLY the same way, can you? I know Beverly and Feisty do based on their daily comments. You should be glad those get collapsed. The hatred from the far left is distasteful to independant/undecidted voters.

Allen, it wasn't until you T-baggers discovered I am Black did suddenly my defense of the the Black Man in the Oval become bigoted.

I can take the criticism; my skin is tuff and it won't fade I've had it all my life. But what angers me are the double standards and stereotypes you people have targeted toward me vicariously through the President's ascent for even being an African American woman. How dare I speak out; right?

It pleases you to call the President all kinds of racist names; defend racists pundits and trailer trash alcoholics who have found their way to dump their racist FOX NEWS dung.

If I just hint at this as being not only racist but going against the narrative of what we as country, even with historical timelines, you people freak and label me a racist.

I know why too because you are a bunch of scary @aa cowards who want o silence the truth.

Why are you guys so afraid of True American?

Why do you find him so threatening?

True, Instead of cowards, just call them Indiana and Wisconsin Democratic Congressmen. Everyone knows it means the same thing.

He's not threatening MB he's an idiot. Read his last say 15 to 20 posts, all he has to say is coward. That doesn't threaten anyone I know. How about you, are you scared of TA?

This guy threatens everyone that represent the Republicans because there's is not much to shouting and name calling. He represents everything that is wrong the TEA and this country. And that's me being nice.

Giggidy

:^/\

Mixed kind of looks like to me you need to call AAA and get your boy True a tow. Apparently his fan belt has done slipped off his pulley there and he's done overheated and blew off his radiator cap.

Uhhh...

Mo, LouisJ, and IR.

Just ignore him if you disagree.

What's the big deal?

Why make a federal case (lol) out of it?

Why should we ignore him when he is clearly violating the Code of Honor by namecalling?

I guess when you see graffiti in your neighborhood you just ignore that too?

Whatever floats your boat. I'm not rolling over for these nutjobs. They don't want to play by the rules, they need to be willing to accept the consequences of their behavior.

Shucks Mixed you ought to know by now that I don't pay to much attention to the True's of this world so I wouldn't reckon that I had a whole lot to do with firing his bottle rocket off this morning. You seemed to be concerned with him for some reason so I thought that you wouldn't mind helping him gather whatever sensibility that he may of had before the explosion went off back up. In his particular case I wouldn't even have a clue where to start looking.

Clara KCMO-

"...violating the Code of Honor...", Clara?

Tell me you're not joking.

Have you never heard Feisty or Bev violating the Newsvine Code Of Honor?

NEVER, Clara?

Or many, many, other liberal/progressives who regularly post at First Read?

Don't be a hypocrite, Clara.

We don't need more hypocrisy at First Read, whatever the ideology, eh?

Well, Independent Redneck-

Then I suppose you're ready to assume responsibility for every comment a liberal/progressive makes at First Read?

You think Feisty Redhead expresses your notions about what constitutes civility and decency, IR?

If you do, you need to read more of her comments, IR.

Anyway...let's get you on the record, IR.

Or maybe...you'd only prefer to be responsible for what you've actually posted.

If so...well, IR, that kinda puts us in the same category, my friend.

MB

You're certainly entitled to your own interpretation of events; but what I see on a pretty regular basis is Feisty or Bev make a statement or publish an article about someone in the Public Domain (usually a Republican; but I have seen them both go off on particularly dumb Democrats) and then someone - usually a Republican or someone certainly in opposition to their stance come back and IMMEDIATELY attack them personally. As though their flashlight on the egregious remark, event or PUBLIC person is somehow received as a personal assault on the retaliator's 'values'. That is usually when someone fires up the microwave and the popcorn party commences.

It is ACCEPTABLE in this country to dissent against our Public Servants. They asked for the job, they should be able to take the heat - but according to the code of honor on this webservice - Newsvine - we aren't supposed to attack EACH other.

So while many may not agree with the language or style with which Feisty or Bev or anyone of us chooses to express ourselves,...name calling is CLEARLY not allowed.

If I am making fun of Donald Trump for his stick in the rabid dog eye rhetoric - and I say he's the King Birther Idiot,...I do NOT believe that violates the code of honor. He is a public official. If I say you sure seem bent on kissing TA's butt to protect him/her; well then that's probably crossing the line a bit.

I know, it is nuance - and that isn't a strong suit for your side; but I didn't make the rules, I'm just trying to live by them.

Note, I said TRYING. I am human and Lord knows there are enough truly ignorant comments posted here daily that are begging for a direct response. You should be somewhat comforted in the fact that I truly do filter my own responses and target only the MOST outrageous. What I find so delicious here today, though, is how often you are one of the ones 'egging' on the discussion - only to truly jump in when you've decided YOU'VE had enough. That isn't hypocrisy - it's irony.

Mixed last I checked the only things in life I "had" to do was die and pay taxes. I don't see making you happy anywhere on that list so why don't you put that answer on your "record"

Amen, IR, Amen!

MB sure feels entitled to set the RECORD straight here at FR. I wasn't aware that Mark or Dom had outsourced that task.

I guess we've been 'schooled'?

Independent Redneck-

You can do better.

I already disagree with you politically.

Honestly...

I'd prefer not to think that you're a hypocrite.

Amen.

Clarification, Clara...

Are you actually asserting that Feisty and Bev haven't violated the Newsvine Code Of Honor?

I believe I can provide examples, Clara.

Want to see them?

I'm saying provocation is an interesting animal.

And retaliation is kin.

Show and tell with you seems creepy - so I'll pass. Thanks.

I'll record your response as a "nay", Clara.

Sorry that the truth makes your skin crawl.

Mixed Bag....

I saw that "True American" was frustrated because no one answered his questions within an hour

....but dang, he just blew a gasket and his actions were definitely crass. That's what happens when you completely try to take down the blog because you don't get what you want.

think about it, how come your posts are not collapsed often? I've had posts collapsed in the past, and I don't care... I mean Feisty's post get collapsed daily... do you see her trying to disrupt the conversation the same way TA did? no? TA has to understand that politics is a contact sport.... and should learn to play better. Can you please relay that message to him/her? Thanks.

IR, I agree with you about community and believe that honest discussion can never be a bad thing. We used to have these discussions around the dinner table in my family so things tended to be a little more civil. Times have changed and we are lucky to have this forum. I wish there was less collapsing as I do enjoy reading other people's point of view.

Thanks for stopping by Lisa. Hadn't seen you in a while figured you were on vacation or something. Stick with us we're going to get things turned around here soon I think and back to a little bit better quality of communication. Things seem to have hit a pothole or two here lately. If I don't get a chance to tomorrow I'll go ahead and wish you a good weekend now just in case.

Hi, IR I'm south of the border but keeping in touch. I really enjoy the information and the different views here on the vine. I think Americans have more in common then we sometimes realize and we should continue keep the lines of communication open. I hope the gov't doesn't shut down and that we continue to try and work together. I do hope that no matter what are differences are we fund our military they are already making the sacrifices that allow us the pleasure of freedom of speech. Talk to you tomorrow.

I found this community by accident. There was so many excellent posts, camaraderie, support , friendship, fun and total respect for everyone's opinion, I was hooked and became a regular. I am a reader and do not post much, besides I can always depend on people like Bev, Navy, IR, Newday, LouisJ, JohnB, Feisty, (just to name a few) to sometimes say what am thinking.

Lately it seems as if there are folks trying to hijack the vine. They want their voice and their voice only to be heard. They are disrespectful and classless.

I have enjoyed this community so much, I would be very disappointed if the good people in this community tries to leave. The vine would not be worth reading.

Thanks guys :>)

Fletch: Thanks for your shout out. The community is important to all of us, and I am hoping that it can get back to the exchange of ideas, and away from personalities. Do write more often, you have important things to add to FR. Later, newdayDAWNING10

Oh Happy Days - huh, Tom? lol

There sounds like an “Urgency of Now” with a budget deadline looming on the horizon. However I don’t think it is as serious as the media ramps it up to be. We’re not broke. But that is what the critics of President Obama want the people to think. But this whole situation puts the Republicans/TEA Party in the spotlight concerning their patriotism as it paints the picture back to 1995.

Republican/TEA Party = Extreme measures… extreme response

No Soldier’s pay… Treasonous

No Police pay… Criminal

No Health and Human Service… Inhumane

No Infrastructure/Transportation Policy… Corrosive

No Counterterrorism… Devastatingly Dangerous

No Food and Drug Administration… Contaminated/Nuclear Poison

No Immigration/Minority Affairs Policy… Racist

No Budget Compromise… Humiliating and Disturbing

These are the extreme measures that the Republicans are willing to take just so that they can regain power. They truly, truly, truly believe that the American public is that naïve. However that may be true of those watching FAUX News because that is the only station they take their tripe to. They robots that obtain their thoughts and words from Failed Entertainers and Failed Governors have no peace of mind because the message of hatred and envy is continuously being pumped into their brains. The TEA is spiked and tainted.

Welcome to the Republicans United States of America… same as the old United States of America… fear, shame, greed, hostility, malice, envy, gluttony, suppression, segregation. They have had this same message for the past 20 years. If they haven’t changed by now, they never will.

United We Stand, Divided We Fall

And they are dividing “US”A.

Hi Louis,

Way to put it out there. GREAT!

What is this? Liberal spam? You already posted that.

What are the measures the far left will take just so they can spend us into oblivion? Pelosi/Reid were borring 4 billion EVERY DAY from other countries to satisfy their spending habits.

However that may be true of those watching FAUX News because that is the only station they take their tripe to.

Awww. To be 12 again where name calling based on counter-intuitive assumptions was a "win" in an argument. They're reading MSNBC, genious.

fear, shame, greed, hostility, malice, envy, gluttony, suppression, segregation.

Did you really just use a "I know you are but what am I?" comeback after all the videos showed up on youtube accusing the democrats in office of that? At least they showed them claiming all non Democrats wanted your grandma to die, eat dog food, blame the right for liberals flying planes into buildings & shooting politicians, tell others to shut up because they won (suppression), and they are the ONLY ones drawing lines in the sand based on race, gender, religion, and income.

It's hard to believe that folks like LouisJ, US Navy, Independent Redneck, Ron, Indiana, Jody, Iowa, AmyB., et al, really understand the implications of the U.S. debt crisis, or what the numbers involved really mean. They consistently refuse to discuss, or even consider, what is going to happen if the United States continues on its present path.

There's been lots of criticism here at First Read directed at Rep. Paul Ryan's FY 2012 budget and accompanying 10-year spending proposal. Ryan says that his proposal cuts $6 trillion in spending from President Obama's FY 2012 budget which would, according to the CBO, add $13 trillion in new debt to the $14 trillion already on the books.

Even if Ryan's plan were fully implemented, $7 trillion in new debt would still be added over the forecast period. Ryan's plan would not lead to a balanced budget until 2040!

Another way to gain some perspective on the severity of the debt crisis, and the massive numbers involved, is to look at the cost of the Iraq War. Last summer, when U.S. combat troops were withdrawing from Iraq, the CBO estimated the to-date cost of the War at $709 billion; the Congressional Research Service estimate came in at $748 billion.

The budget deficit for THIS YEAR ALONE (FY 2011) is estimated at $1.65 trillion; more than double the cost of the Iraq War from the 2003 invasion date through last August's withdrawal date. I don't offer these numbers as any justification whatsoever for the Iraq War...that's a different argument entirely. I offer them simply as context for the massive proportions of the nation's debt problem.

Again...$1.65 trillion is the deficit total for ONE YEAR! For every dollar spent this year, understand that 43 cents is borrowed.

Debt commission co-chair Erskine Bowles testified before the Senate Budget Committee last month and said that he believes the U.S. has two years or less before the size of the accumulated debt begins to interfere with the government's ability to borrow more in the world's debt markets. Paul Ryan says that the U.S. has "several" years to act.

Can any of you imagine what would happen if the United States government was unable to float addition debt to finance the cost of its operation?

And, the honest truth is...no one knows for sure how much time President Obama and the nation's leadership has to seriously address this issue.

No one knows.

First, still no compromise on the proposed shut down of the government. The Tea Party still wants it all or nothing policy. This is more smoke and mirrors by the GOP/TP. As I said yesterday the GOP/TP is doing the Governor Walker walk now. The Democrats have already agreed to 30+ Billion in spending cuts that the GOP/TP originally wanted, just like the Unions agreed to the pay cuts in WI that Walker wanted, then Boehner moves the goal post to 40 Billion just like Walker up the anti to included destroying the Public Unions and making the false claim that the Democrats are the ones stalling the process. This is an out right lie by the GOP/TP. The Democrats move to the number that the GOP/TP originally wanted only to find that they moved the goal posts. This is just outright political crap from the right trying to shut down the government which is exactly what the GOP/TP wants no matter what their rhetoric is.

Continuing from my post yesterday now that we have had a day or two digest the GOP/TP Ryan’s “Roadmap for the Destruction of the Middle Class” we see the true agenda of the GOP. Some are calling Ryan a hero, he is not. This is just the same old same old rhetoric of past decades cloaked in a different cover.

This Proposal calls for the massive upward redistribution of wealth and power from the nation's workers to the rich. This is clear to anyone who reads the 70 plus pages of this document. Yesterday I posted that this budget plan would get about two-thirds of its more than $4 trillion in budget cuts over 10 years from programs that serve people in the Middle Class and those of limited means.

1. $2.17 trillion in reductions from Medicaid and related health care

2. $400 billion in cuts in low-income discretionary programs

3. $350 billion in cuts in mandatory programs serving low-income Americans (other than Medicaid)

There is a bevy of information on the web from CBPP, CBO, CEPR, WSJ, NYT, WP etc that you should read.

Ryan cuts the baseline $7.8 trillion in defense spending projected for the next decade by just 1.0 percent. Apparently the Congressman believes in a strong safety net for defense contractors. With a total annual budget of over 700 Billion per year this is peanuts and not a real attempt to control DOD spending at all. This is just a token number that has no real meaning at all, just more GOP/TP smoke and mirrors. We should be looking at 10X that number in reality just in fraud, waste, redundancy, failed and unnecessary programs, mismanagement etc in the DOD

Ryan replaces Medicare with a voucher program for those under age 55. This is giving 100% control of Medicare over to the Insurance Companies, it is called “Privatization” and apparently he didn't notice that the private health care system has not been successful in controlling costs for the non-Medicare population that by the way have been increasing every year by double digits long before President Obama came on the scene and passed the HCR Law.

The Ryan proposal totally re-writes Medicaid and will end up denying Medicaid to Millions of Americans currently covered.

The Ryan proposal wants to lower the income tax on the top 2% from 35% currently to 25%. This is a 10 point swing or in other words a 28.5% reduction in their Income Tax liability. While the Middle Class is trying to just stay above water and pay their bills, Ryan wants to lower the tax liability on the richest 2% by almost 30%. It gets worst if the current tax cuts for the richest 2% goes to the Clinton rate after 2012. The spread would then be from 39% down to 25% a 14 point spread which is the same as a 40% reduction in just their income tax liability. This will means millions of dollars a year in additional spending money for Wall Street bankers, CEOs of major corporations and other major campaign contributors.

There is nothing in the Ryan plan that has not been circulated in policy circles for decades. Yet many GOP/TP folks will applaud the plan as brave, innovative and creative, calling Ryan a hero, this is pure BS.

To see how ridiculous the Ryan proposal is go to: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/

His whole proposal is based on false data from the Heritage Foundation and totally unrealistic employment and growth factors. In fact

“Ryan is proposing huge (and largely unspecified) spending cuts; but he’s also proposing very large tax cuts, mainly, of course, for those with high incomes. And as you can see, a large part — roughly half — of the spending cuts are going, not to deficit reduction, but to finance those tax cuts”. This is the very same scam that the GOP/TP Governors pulled with their exaggerated Budget Deficits by demanding spending cuts and tax increases to the Middle Class and the Poor to pay for the income and property tax cuts for the corporations and the wealthy. This is total Wealth and Power redistribution to the 2%.

“Actually, it’s even worse, since the revenue figure in the Ryan plan is simply assumed, and is clearly too high given what he’s actually proposing on taxes; so either the fall in revenue will be even larger than shown here, or there will be unspecified tax hikes on the middle class”. That is correct, more huge tax cuts for those that do not need it and tax increases on the American’s that can afford it the least.

“In any case, the bottom line is obvious: this is not the budget of a deficit hawk. It’s the budget of a deficit exploiter, someone who is trying to use fears of red ink to push through a political agenda that includes major losses of revenue”.

Navy-

You forgot to contrast the Ryan plan with President Obama's plan.

Can you outline President Obama's plan to address the nation's debt crisis?

Surely it's not the plan outlined in the President's FY 2012 budget proposal.

Because, that plan ADDS $13 trillion in new debt to the $14 trillion already on the books...nearly DOUBLING the national debt and pushing debt service payments close to $1 trillion annually.

That can't be right, can it Navy?

Mixed Bag - Posted my thoughts about Ryan's plan yesterday see below, reposting to contrast with Obama's proposed budget for 2012.

________________________________________________________________

My thoughts are that Ryan's main way of reducing the deficit and eventually the debt is to gut medicare. This is an odd GOP stance since as the FR story above appears to say the GOP is against gutting 500 billion from Medicare. In addition his idea that Medicare becomes a premium support system sounds to me too much like a HSA - Health Savings account. What I mean by that is that HSA's typically will be beneficial for a higher income person than one of lesser means. If Medicare is rationed in this way, will not only the wealthy get fair and decent support? While I might be inclined to agree with the debt commissions idea to raise slightly over time the retirement age, I don't agree with Ryan's pay to play scenario. Anyone see the irony in the Death panel label the GOP used against HCR?

As far as Brook's column, although he calls out the passivity of Obama and Boehner, why doesn't he call Ryan out for not supporting the Federal debt commision. From my review, albeit limited, Ryan appears to want to reduce tax rates by cutting deductions and loop holes. I think Ryan should be called out as an idealogue who chose not to vote for the debt commission but now uses some of their very own ideas.

Interestingly for those that deny that some corporations don't pay taxes.....

Ryan - "Tax reform: This budget would focus on growth by reforming the nation's outdated tax code, consolidating brackets, lowering tax rates, and assuming top individual and corporate rates of 25%. It maintains a revenue-neutral approach by clearing out a burdensome tangle of deductions and loopholes that distort economic activity and leave some corporations paying no income taxes at all."

____________________________

Concerning Obama's budget as a counterpoint to Ryan's plan, I have looked (skimmed through) the whitehouse.gov overview. I would suggest that everyone that doesn't understand the amount of funding that goes to entitlements vs funds for spending of non-defense discretionary programs look at the chart here. (whitehouse.gov/omb/budget)

With over 20% of the budget going to defense and approximately another 60% or so going to Medicare, medicaid and Social Security, one would think that entitlement reform is required. However, Ryan's plan IMO, cuts the safety net without regard to the consequences to enable spending cuts. In addition he supports further cuts to the non defense discretionary slice of the pie.

The obama budget overview has 215 pages, page 15-87 consists of governement agencies and funding and elimination cuts to different programs. Page 88-143 consists of reductions, integrations or merging of redundant programs. The remaining pages look at other possible savings. Mind you all of these cuts have rationalizations and show the differences between the 2010 numbers and what Obama proposes for 2012.

What I find fault is that despite the hundreds of billions that Obama outlines as cuts and savings over several years, he doesn't touch defense substantially. Neither does he address the GOP concerns in (unfunded entitlements to use GOP language).

What both parties need to agree to is a balanced approach of cuts and additional revenue. In lieu of just attacking loopholes in the tax code, I don't know how more revenue can come in when you try to lower taxes. Obama has said he wants to end the tax cut extensions for the rich, again,LOL, in a few years and look at tax reform now. Ryan's idea of tax reform is to lower taxes. I don't know how the GOP can honestly square saying there is a unmanageable deficit and then propose to only cut a small piece of the pie (non defense discretionary) and hack at social safety nets all to avoid raising taxes.

At times I feel as if the GOP plan is to make things too top heavy with the middle and lower income people supporting more and more of the burden of the economy. As an architect I know that every structure including the tax structure needs to have a broad strong foundation. All members need to bear equal support. If it is too top heavy eventually the structure will collapse.

Mark-

I know that President Obama created the debt commission with his executive order.

He has not accepted their recommendations and Plan...to date, anyway.

I know that President Obama's FY 2012 budget proposal (submitted in January, after he received the Plan from his debt commission) adds $13 trillion in new spending over 10 years, and suggests that debt interest payments will rise to $844 billion annually.

I don't know what you've gleaned from my comments about Ryan's plan, but I prefer the plan offered by the President's own debt commission...primarily because it is bipartisan and offers a better prospect of actually being adopted.

As I've said, President Obama certainly doesn't like Rep. Paul Ryan's plan...apparently he doesn't like the Plan offered by his own debt commission either.

So...until he offers a plan of his own, I don't really know where we go from here.

Do you?

Okay, you will probably tsk tsk me for the source, but according to Huffington post

Obama's new budget puts forward a plan to achieve $1.1 trillion in deficit reductions over the next decade, according to an administration official who spoke to the Associated Press...

So over ten years Obama's budget if implemented exactly as proposed would save 1.1 trillion while Ryan's ill called Path to Prosperity would cut 6 trillion in spending. As you state it will not be until 2040 to feel its positive effect. However, his savings/cuts, will not increase the revenue one dollar. I think we need to raise taxes. Both plans in the decade long period alluded to talk about savings but that doesn't deal with deficit reduction.

Believe me Mixed Bag, I can see the deficit and debt problem as serious, it was the reason for me being against the tax cut exentions in Dec. 2010. I understand we have a problem, but it is too easy to just blame it on spending and not admit that we also have a revenue problem.

What I do now is to wait until a fellow leftie puts out a comprehensive plan to counter Ryan's plan. As with all hard problems/issues, immigration reform, energy policy, foreign affairs the solution has to look at a comprehensive list of ideas and solutions.

The debt commission had some ideas I could stomach. A few I liked included making the more well off receive less SS and gradually increasing the retirement age. Perhaps reasonable changes/reductions can be made to SS for people under 55 a la the Debt commission's recommendations not Ryan's.

Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to myself, Mark.

I cannot tell you how many times I've already posted this, but here goes:

The Obama Administration, in its FY 2012 budget proposal, included a 10-yr spending forecast prepared by the CBO. I don't know what the Huffington Post is saying, but the Obama Administration is saying that $13 trillion in new debt will be added to the $14 trillion already on the books. Again, Mark...the $13 trillion number is from the Obama Administration's FY 2012 budget. I became aware of this when Treasury Secretary Tim Geither appeared before the Senate Budget Committee to answer questions shortly after the FY 2012 budget was released in January.

I too prefer the President's debt commission Plan to Rep. Ryan's.

I only wish President Obama had endorsed the Plan when he received it in December.

Now that he's seen Ryan's plan, I wouldn't be surprised if he felt the same way.

Nice discussion Yellowdog and bag-boy....

Yellow... you gave a lot of great suggestions and I think the president should have also adopted the bipartisan debt commission.... it will effectively reduce out debt substantially. And I think the age to collect medicare needs to be increased as folks weren't expected to live as long as they live now... the longer we live, the more problems and medical problems we'll have... we just don't drop dead anymore.... if we don't want to increase the medicare eligibility, the we have to raise the amount we contribute to medicare.

Mixed Bag,

Spare me the Republican "no-one knows, nobody really know, who knows?" punchline.

It's just a fashionable way to diss legitimate findings and shove them in the same mixed bag with all the indiscriminate nonsense.

Thank you.

Nice discussion your right Tunde. I also wish the we adopted the bi-partisan debt commision. I'm right at the age where this would affect me personally but I am willing to do my part to put this country on a path to fiscal responsibility.

John B.

Kudos and well said. The people are looking for results not grand standing. They have had enough of this from both parties and they just want them to create jobs, keep the economy improving etc.

The GOP realize the base and media will eat this bs up like catnip and will continue the rhetoric. They have been doing this since Bush was in office and have no intention of stopping now.

This is the reality we live in. Now if certain people would just wake up we will be able to move forward.

Giggidy

:^|

There sounds like an “Urgency of Now” with a budget deadline looming on the horizon. However I don’t think it is as serious as the media ramps it up to be. We’re not broke. But that is what the critics of President Obama want the people to think. But this whole situation puts the Republicans/TEA Party in the spotlight concerning their patriotism as it paints the picture back to 1995.

Republican/TEA Party = Extreme measures… extreme response

No Soldier’s pay… Treasonous

No Police pay… Criminal

No Health and Human Service… Inhumane

No Infrastructure/Transportation Policy… Corrosive

No Counterterrorism… Devastatingly Dangerous

No Food and Drug Administration… Contaminated/Nuclear Poison

No Immigration/Minority Affairs Policy… Racist

No Budget Compromise… Humiliating and Disturbing

These are the extreme measures that the Republicans are willing to take just so that they can regain power. They truly, truly, truly believe that the American public is that naïve. However that may be true of those watching FAUX News because that is the only station they take their tripe to. They robots that obtain their thoughts and words from Failed Entertainers and Failed Governors have no peace of mind because the message of hatred and envy is continuously being pumped into their brains. The TEA is spiked and tainted.

Welcome to the Republicans United States of America… same as the old United States of America… fear, shame, greed, hostility, malice, envy, gluttony, suppression, segregation. They have had this same message for the past 20 years. If they haven’t changed by now, they never will.

United We Stand, Divided We Fall

And they are dividing “US”A.

LouisJ

The GOP realize the base and media will eat this bs up like catnip and will continue the rhetoric.

For someone backing the party that didn't even pass the budget last year while they had control of all 3 branches and got us into this mess, you sure seem to have things backwards on what the "rhetoric" is here. The left is attacking the right for trying to fix what they failed to do. We were already going broke and the left piled on health care. Did you really think stuff like this was going to be completely free or were you just hoping deep down the cost would be passed on to your children and grandchildren? It's time to stop kicking the can down the road and pay the piper before we end up collapsing.

So the GOP filibuster that blocked every appropriations bill presented was the Dems fault then?

sfilutze;

Very true, and I cofuld not agree with you more.

Exactly so, sfiltuze. This is ideology dressed up as pragmatism, attack pretending to be sincere concern.

It’s sad that Speaker Boehner is running scared from the Tea Baggers. The Tea Baggers must feel like real big people rnow, while holding the country as their hostage.

Come on Mr. Boehner, show people that you aren’t a coward.

Sifutlze, I don't think the Republicans should defund Planned Parenthood but I do think they have a point on The EPA being able to implement cap & trade. President Obama couldn't get cap & trade though Congress he shouldn't sneak it through the EPA's back door.

Sifutlze, I don't think the Republicans should defund Planned Parenthood but I do think they have a point on The EPA being able to implement cap & trade. President Obama couldn't get cap & trade though Congress he shouldn't sneak it through the EPA's back door.

Sifutlze, I don't think the Republicans should defund Planned Parenthood but I do think they have a point on The EPA being able to implement cap & trade. President Obama couldn't get cap & trade though Congress he shouldn't sneak it through the EPA's back door.

Hopefully having nincompoops like Trump leading the ridiculous charge of whether or not our President is a U.S. citizen will put this whole Rovian idea to rest. The guy has nothing else. Isn't his 15 minutes up yet?

The Donald

I am great

I am successful

I am rich

I created a great business

I have created hundreds of thousands of jobs

I have the best TV program on NBC

I will be the best President ever

And you say that President Obama is narcissistic!

His fifteen minutes will never be up because he has the means to purchase self promoting advertisements. When one ad buy ends, another begins.

He is the PERPETUAL gift that keeps on giving. I cannot wait to send MoveOn some 'home made' advertisements against him.

I mean the fool has CLASSIC Foot in Mouth disease and because he can't stay away from the cameras, their is footage EVERYWHERE!

So happy!

oops, THERE is footage.

The Donald thinks he is God’s gift to the World. I wonder if he believes his beautiful young wife would be with him if he wasn’t so rich.

Clara - it is painfully obvious that 'The Donald' LOVES the spotlight. He LOVES being the center of attention, and if it means that he has to say somethnig crazy to get that attention, then so be it.

johnnymc:

Appreciate your honesty. Thank you.

Click on the actual plan. Yes they do. The scare BS is nothing but BS. Only non-essential departments are shut down. You won't be able to visit the statue of liberty but most departments will still be going along.Mar 30, 2011 ... As Congress has flirted with shutting down the federal government, ... agent of the government issues a written stop-work order. Have an alternative plan in case a particular contract is stopped, .... For a copy of this publication, please click the link in the adjacent "Download" section. ...
www.pillsburylaw.com/index.cfm?pageid=34&itemid=40104

The world isn't laughing at President Obama. They're laughing at the GOP. Okay?

They're laughing at the GOP. Okay

Specifically the Tea Baggers! lmao

Only in America NOT do we allow them to roam freely, we also allow them to VOTE!

There sounds like an “Urgency of Now” with a budget deadline looming on the horizon. However I don’t think it is as serious as the media ramps it up to be. We’re not broke. But that is what the critics of President Obama want the people to think. But this whole situation puts the Republicans/TEA Party in the spotlight concerning their patriotism as it paints the picture back to 1995.

Republican/TEA Party = Extreme measures… extreme response

No Soldier’s pay… Treasonous

No Police pay… Criminal

No Health and Human Service… Inhumane

No Infrastructure/Transportation Policy… Corrosive

No Counterterrorism… Devastatingly Dangerous

No Food and Drug Administration… Contaminated/Nuclear Poison

No Immigration/Minority Affairs Policy… Racist

No Budget Compromise… Humiliating and Disturbing

These are the extreme measures that the Republicans are willing to take just so that they can regain power. They truly, truly, truly believe that the American public is that naïve. However that may be true of those watching FAUX News because that is the only station they take their tripe to. They robots that obtain their thoughts and words from Failed Entertainers and Failed Governors have no peace of mind because the message of hatred and envy is continuously being pumped into their brains. The TEA is spiked and tainted.

Welcome to the Republicans United States of America… same as the old United States of America… fear, shame, greed, hostility, malice, envy, gluttony, suppression, segregation. They have had this same message for the past 20 years. If they haven’t changed by now, they never will.

United We Stand, Divided We Fall

And they are dividing “US”A.

True Ugly American A$$hole

Howdidwegethere: You must not travel much.

I have been overseas many times and the world is not laughing at President Obama, instead they love him. I can't tell you how many times when people find out that I'm an American, they give thumbs up and say "Obama" and "Obama is great."

On the other hand they want to know when President Bush is going to jail.

I want an answer to that as well, when is he going to jail?

Giggidy

:^.

Bill-433395;

I refuse to vote for anyone that is not going to try and shrink the size of government.

You mean you're not going to excercise your right to vote?

"The more people that are dependent on the government for a hand out the more votes the Dems get."

Half of the recepients of Medicare are children. What do you want these kids to for their health care? Collect bottles along side the road?

"Currently too many want a free ride."

10% of the U.S. population controls three quarters of the entire assets of the country. And, you can bet the wealthiest 10% are not EMT's, teachers, cops, soldiers or doctors and nurses.

There sounds like an “Urgency of Now” with a budget deadline looming on the horizon. However I don’t think it is as serious as the media ramps it up to be. We’re not broke. But that is what the critics of President Obama want the people to think. But this whole situation puts the Republicans/TEA Party in the spotlight concerning their patriotism as it paints the picture back to 1995.

Republican/TEA Party = Extreme measures… extreme response

No Soldier’s pay… Treasonous

No Police pay… Criminal

No Health and Human Service… Inhumane

No Infrastructure/Transportation Policy… Corrosive

No Counterterrorism… Devastatingly Dangerous

No Food and Drug Administration… Contaminated/Nuclear Poison

No Immigration/Minority Affairs Policy… Racist

No Budget Compromise… Humiliating and Disturbing

These are the extreme measures that the Republicans are willing to take just so that they can regain power. They truly, truly, truly believe that the American public is that naïve. However that may be true of those watching FAUX News because that is the only station they take their tripe to. They robots that obtain their thoughts and words from Failed Entertainers and Failed Governors have no peace of mind because the message of hatred and envy is continuously being pumped into their brains. The TEA is spiked and tainted.

Welcome to the Republicans United States of America… same as the old United States of America… fear, shame, greed, hostility, malice, envy, gluttony, suppression, segregation. They have had this same message for the past 20 years. If they haven’t changed by now, they never will.

United We Stand, Divided We Fall

And they are dividing “US”A.

True Ugly American A$$hole

Obama NEVER Lied Like Chicken CHIT BUSH in IRAQ!

Get outta the past old gop. obama is lying to everyone right now. And will be lying tomorrow. You got a problem with Bush, I'd say you are too late...........

There sounds like an “Urgency of Now” with a budget deadline looming on the horizon. However I don’t think it is as serious as the media ramps it up to be. We’re not broke. But that is what the critics of President Obama want the people to think. But this whole situation puts the Republicans/TEA Party in the spotlight concerning their patriotism as it paints the picture back to 1995.

Republican/TEA Party = Extreme measures… extreme response

No Soldier’s pay… Treasonous

No Police pay… Criminal

No Health and Human Service… Inhumane

No Infrastructure/Transportation Policy… Corrosive

No Counterterrorism… Devastatingly Dangerous

No Food and Drug Administration… Contaminated/Nuclear Poison

No Immigration/Minority Affairs Policy… Racist

No Budget Compromise… Humiliating and Disturbing

These are the extreme measures that the Republicans are willing to take just so that they can regain power. They truly, truly, truly believe that the American public is that naïve. However that may be true of those watching FAUX News because that is the only station they take their tripe to. They robots that obtain their thoughts and words from Failed Entertainers and Failed Governors have no peace of mind because the message of hatred and envy is continuously being pumped into their brains. The TEA is spiked and tainted.

Welcome to the Republicans United States of America… same as the old United States of America… fear, shame, greed, hostility, malice, envy, gluttony, suppression, segregation. They have had this same message for the past 20 years. If they haven’t changed by now, they never will.

United We Stand, Divided We Fall

And they are dividing “US”A.

Hence The Name SAME GOP !

Differnet Day ( Same GAME !)

More For The GOP WEALTHY !

Less & Even LEAST for the PEONS / While GOP added to the DEBT!

This " PLAN " Pays NOTHING Toward the National DEBT ! Not a Damn DIME !

It LINES The WEALTHY Pockets SAME as My ENTIRE Life of Watching GOP Fear & SMEAR ! GREED!

The GOP Never Cut The National DEBT ( PROMISES , PROMISE ) So The SIDE SHOW !

Blame - Dispise- FEAR ILLEGALS ( TEXAS Lobbying for MORE Illegals AGAIN! ) GOP =TOTAL LIARS !

the wealthy pay most of the taxes in this country to take care of you...you should thank them.

the GOP Vilinized SOOO Many Progroms, Groups & People !

They NOW HAVE to ATTACK Them! JOB Number ONE !

As FOX CLAIMS ( Fair & Balanced ) ?? a LIE for GOP SHEEP & the Rest of PEON America ...................

The WEALTHY are NOT included When it COMES to SACRIFICING ...... Just GOUGING & Crying Over Taxed!

The GOP ( Trickle Down Tax Increases ) WILL Really Get GOP Sheep CRYING !

The GOP SHEEP ( Don't You DARE BLAME LIBERALS for The PROPERTY TAX MASSIVE INCREASES!

It IS YOUR FAULT !

you're a liar, the wealthy pay most of the taxes...you should thank them for taking care of you.

This BUDGET cUTS are That ONLY !

They DO NOTHING to CUT the REAL PROBLEM !

It is REALLY the ( CODDLE THE RICH PLAN )

It's not that hard. We fell into a deficit because of the Bush tax cuts, coupled with two wars that we initiated and borrowed money for, followed by an economic depression. We pay interest on the borrowed money, and the interest payments are the main "driver" of the projected debt. So we need a corrective. We need to bring in more tax revenue, perhaps with the specific intent of using that revenue to pay down the principal on our debt. We need to trim spending, but we should not undo programs already in place. As the economy improves and revenue increases, the projected debt will change.

Kate is ABSOLUTLEY correct. We need to raise revenues in conjunction with making smart cuts (reducing and eliminating redunancies in Government, eliminating programs that are not useful, making Government SMARTER).

All of this 'Cut, cut,cut' rhetoric is just that - noise, and it is counterproductive to eliminating the deficit.

What would also help would be legislation that would take any surplus revenue and apply that specifically to the deficit. Unfortunately, we do not have a Congress that will write that legislation right now.

It took us close to 30 years to get into this mess with the deficits, and we will NOT be getting out of dealing with the deficits in 1-2 years. It will take at least 10-15 years with the economy humming at almost 100% before we will see any significant deficit reduction.

We need to be SMARTER about how we deal with this issue, and I hope that in the near future we will have a smart, comprehensive plan in place.

actually the bush tax cuts increased revenues....tax cuts always do...like clinton's capital gains tax cut...the problem is spending.

Look at California and tell me how tax increases helped.

Well, Jim, your plan of shutting down the Government would work except that the Congress continues to get paid even if the Government is shut down.

So what is the point?

You want the politicians to feel the pain - well, they won't. The only pain they will feel is when they are voted out of office. Your plan to shut down the government is only going to hurt US - the American electorate - and the troops overseas that MAY not get a paycheck.

Feel better now, Jim??