And Obama is completely right... Revenue and Budget bills originate in the House... and you can see what control the House has.... let the government shut down... the GOP will get toasted for this one.... Now it's.... we'll do a continuing resolution "if" you give us more cuts.... it's like death by a thousand cuts.... Bonner knows he has no sway over the Tea Party guys.. and they are running him.... they are out in 2012... the American middle class has seen their greed....

The President is correct in his stance and Boehner can't control the Tea Baggers, who are calling the shots.

Remember, the Tea Bagger Caucus cheered when Speaker Boehner told them that the government could be heading for a shut down.

Bob, the President is leading in public and behind the scenes (where most of the wrangling goes on). Trounce other's posts if you will, but you're dead wrong. The pee-baggers are the ones to cite if you want to lay blame. Their extreme ultra right thinking, if followed and passed, will take this country back to the Dark Ages. That's where their oligarchs want us - back before the Renaissance. We have a nice pasture near us that would suit the pee-baggers and their RW Repubs to a T. It's chock full of bull sh*t.

Fargin,

Pretty sad when people have to TELL you to do your job.

Repubs and Boehner have done there job, their cuts are on the table whopping - 1%. And that is too much? Obama said "we can't have everything we want" but won't give 1%?

What a joke of a President.

Hey Bob,

I think you need to understand the difference between facts and opinions. You may really really want to think that everything that Repubs say is fact, but it's just not the case.

Fact is Dems compromised and agreed to the Repubs cuts. Repubs then increased the number of cuts they wanted. My OPINION is that that is a completely weak move by them and not compromising whatsoever at this stage of the game causes me to blame them for government shutdown.

Boehner opining that Obama isn't leading is just showboating so that his base will be fired up.

I'm really not a fan of Obama, but I'll take him over any of the craziness the Repubs/Tea party have been showing for the past 11 years.

Let me see, the Repubs criticised Obama for trying to do too much at one time when things were going to hell, and yet now, they whine because the Dems won't accelerate spending cuts at the Tea Party rate without a clear plan for controlling spending in the future. Good job, hypocrites! And Palin is the answer! Yeah right! All politicians have been stealing from SS and Medicare for years to make the budget look balanced, and now that is what the Repubs want to cut first. You are all a bunch of crybabies and unprofessional idiots. Negotiatiing means compromising by all. Get that through your blockheads.

Billy,

He is not leading. He didn't get involved till yesterday for a few minutes the took off Philadelphia and New York to give speeches.

Obama says we have a crisis, we have to address the crisis, but won't cut ONE PERCENT!

You guys call ONE PERCENT extreme?

Why are you guys so clueless?

No leadership from the President? Someone needs a review of some 5th grade social studies basics. Obama cannot force the House to accept a budget--Three times now, Bonier has made public statements (and if the WSJ is to believed--private ones at the WH as well) to push huge and record breaking budget cuts. Each time he's recieved some give on that number, Bonier then rejected it and went higher (after he heard the screams of his "shut it down" base.) Estimates (CBO and others) are that these cuts Bonier can't rally his fellow R's around are already enough to stall the nation's recovery--more risk a reversal of that recovery.

If I believed in conspiracy theories, I'd say that's exactly the outcome the right wing nut faction has in mind. That would require calling these "believers" unAmerican and motivated not by any concern over budgets (which will not be impacted by cuts since there are accompanying tax breaks), but by hatred of the President. I'll be generous and suggest they are simply ignorant about the impact of their own actions and actually buy the long discredited "trickle down" theory that the only spending America really needs is that which helps corporations and the wealthiest who might be convinced to pass it on out of their good hearts .

All of which is to suggest that the reason the poll numbers are now disfavoring the Republicans is that they've once again, overplayed their hand. They are running out of constituencies to alienate.

bob, don't look now but Republicans have failed to put forth a proposal as effective as the deficit commision's recommendations...It would appear we have bi-partisan case of failure to seriously address the deficit while hiding behind partisan rhetoric while blaming the other side... Unless you consider Ryan's half-baked proposal to be serious.

"The president isn't leading,"

So what else is new? With Nancy Pelosi no longer able to 'take the lead' on issues like HCR and Cap & Trade, obama is like a 'fish out of water', with nobody to show him what to do.

At least the French have stepped up to take the lead in Libya and the Ivory Coast. I guess that French President Sarkozy should be considered the new leader of the free world.

And the Democrats are strangely quiet since Chuck Schumer (D-NY) was caught on tape saying the Democrats were 'instructed' to call all proposed cuts by the Republicans "Extreme" to avoid having to make any measningful cuts.

shut it down and out go the repubs and tea baggers...it's not rocket science, they control 1/3 of the government and want to call all the shots and don't want to compromise, you tell me whos to blame...hope you had fun teabaggers and republicans, the game is over and you lost 2012 because a common American person sees through all this BS and not to even bring up paul ryans budget, hahahaaa, fuc*king loser...TEA Party & Republicans = Tax Evading Americans Party

Isn't it the job of Congress to approve a budget? Isn't that why they have a Speaker of the House, Majority and Minority leaders, and various positions ad nauseam? It almost sounds as if Speaker Boehner expects President Obama to do his job. And also, I read that the Democrats agreed to the original Republican plan, and then the Tea Party representatives forced Speaker Boehner to scrap that agreement and demand more. So the Speaker of the House criticises the president for "not leading," when the Speaker can't even lead his own party? Yes, we need to scale back government spending, but these people seem to think they can unwind a decade of increases overnight. We're drowning in debt, but with unemployment still high, I have to wonder how many jobs does $61 billion represent?

For better or worse, the American people have elected a GOP majority in the House - this puts the onus on REPUBLICANS. The House originates all spending bills. It's up to REPUBLICANS to propose a budget that can pass both the House and the Senate, and garner the President's signature.

Mr. Boehner's problem (and the GOP's larger problem) is his Tea Party constituents are either unwilling or unable to understand the principle of compromise inherent in our constitutional system. Having seized power by taking control of the House, they'd like to dictate their economic policies.

Which won't happen, of course. Which leaves Mr. Boehner with the poor option of preemptively pointing fingers to attempt to place the blame on others for HIS failure to do HIS job, and for his party's failure to govern.

For two years the Republicans used the "NO" voice on everything the Democrats tried to do and now that the responsibility is on their party they whine. Grow up and work together with the other party for a change you idiots.

Hey Boehner, if you don't have enough money, eliminate the tax cuts, especially to the filthy rich. The tax cuts aren't doing me any good since I'm retired and don't have any loopholes to use. Of course as a 7 day a week worker I never had any loopholes anyway.

The TRUTH is, the President is not going to be led, by a group of sycophants, who are representing only the rich. John Boehner is a Koch-head. Charles and David Koch, have been calling the shots, for the last decade. Now, the brothers grim, are planning on stealing, even more from the true workers, who merit the every penny they are paid.That is something foreign to the Koch brothers, who "inherited" their wealth. Neither Charles nor David have ever preformed, a days work in their sorry lives. Do you really think, David and Charles care about the Tea Party's concerns? Hardly! They are using the Tea Party's agenda, to take as much as they can, from those who need the most. The Tea Party will soon feel the betrayal, when they find themselves on the Koch brothers chopping block.

When John Boehner was standing in front of his motley crew, the other day; one all most got the feeling, he was ready to cry. Oh, he does cry. All the time! If hewere a real leader, he would give his benefactors their money back and stand up for middle class Americans. Unfortunately, the Koch brothers, look at Boehner's report card. David and Charles toss Boehner a bone and scratch his belly. Soon the Kochs send Boehner back out into the cold cruel world, insisting Boehner abolish, more of the middle class rights. Boehner will never get any grade above an "F". Not from the Koch heads.

Lastly, for all of you who believe the Republican party represents you, ask yourselves this:

The question is not, Why do union workers earn more? The question is, Why do We earn less?

I have never belonged to a union but I am glad they exist.

Judy O, RN

Amazing that the Dems want to negotiate the cuts. It seems that just a few months ago when they controlled both houses there was no negotiating on the health care bill. Its no fun when the shoe is on the other foot and you just can't muscle it through. It might have been easier to side with the dems if they did their job and passed a budget many months ago.

I notice none of the usual far lefties today will respond to the posts regarding the failure of Pelosi and the Dems to pass a budget on time when they were in charge of the house. They want to sit around and blast Boehner for not getting the job done. This wouldn't be an issue if Pelosi did her job. It also wouldn't be an issue, as the House has already passed a budget for the rest of the year, if the Senate would vote on that bill. But it seems good ol' Sen. Reid won't let that come to a vote in the Senate.

On another note, I find it very amusing to see comments on this first thread collapsed that did not violate the code of honor. Those comments collapsed were posted by people supporting the Republicans and the left collapses them. This after the rans on here yesterday and the day before about the right collapsing the lefts' posts. Can we say hypocrosy?

Lasty, Fiesty, can you every post a comment without making a snide or rude comment. We get it, you don't like Republicans. You've made that very clear. Now can you actually post a well thought out arguement to support your dislike of the right without insulting them? I don't think you can.

Why is everyone blaming The President? When did it become his job to make laws? I am sure I read somewhere in The Constitution, that power falls to Congress. I also seem to recall after the elections, Republicans didn't want a bill passed, because they were going to use it to help create those promised jobs. If either party could "Walk it, like they talk it", they would surely win the popular vote. But they cannot, they are corrupted by lobbyists bribes, backdoor deals for power. No one wants to talk about where the real cuts need to come from, National Security and The Defense Dept. I am quite sure just those 2 alone I could cut all 100 billion and have change left over. Also, let's cut out Corporate Welfare. If your company makes over a billion dollars, I don't think you need any taxbreaks, sounds like you're doing fine.

Like being on a crowded elevator and the first to feign innocence and louder still moral indignation is almost always the source of the insult. I know a crude analogy - but the Republican/Tea Party strategy as to the prospect of a government shutdown has well... been pretty inane, obvious and childish!

Nevada-Brett

Have you even been paying attention to the congress for the last 2 1/2 years? In order to pass a budget it has to be presented and voted on by the whole congress. The Republicans have been blocking all actions by congress since Jan.,2009 because they never got their way and that includes the 2011 budget which they blocked before the election. Now they have control of the house, they can't even agree among themselves what should be cut and what should not be cut. Republicans want to cut all services that help the people and keep all subsidies that help the rich. I say cut all subsidies to farmers, big oil , and those that take our jobs out of the country and keep the money flowing to education and programs that make this country less dependent on foreign oil.

Joe 755....

That sounds like revisionist history to me. I recall that the Democratic House tried to pass a budget, but it was filibustered by the Republicans and held hostage for extension of tax breaks for the wealthy.

@Larry: Wise up; it is you who has not been paying attention. Stop parroting the same drivel straight from the mouths of Madcow and Schultz. Here's the naked truth: For almost the entire year of 2009 the Dems had filibuster-proof majorities in both houses: Senate and House of Reps. They could have passed anything they wanted -- anything! The Republican vote meant nothing. (Don't believe me; look it up.) The Dems were too busy arguing amongst themselves about Obamacare to achieve anything significant. It was only when Scott Brown was voted into the Senate did the Repubs actually have a say at the table. Now, as for 2010 and the budget, the Dems never offered anything substantial. The months ticked by and they did nothing about putting together a serious budget proposal. Thus we are here today.

The tea party needs to remember the brown shirts. They, like many other similar movements throughout history, were used as a political weapons by their supposed allies and then disposed of, brutally. I wonder what the Koch brothers version of the night of the long knives will be?

Yes, but Senate Republicans blocked that effort last year. It should be passed before the new fiscal year begins but it rarely does these days at least not when you have one party who said NO, blocked, delayed, denied and obstructed everything the past two years. That's the reality of last year not my political view.

I don’t understand what you expect to get out of talking about what should have, could have happened 6+ months ago.

We all know that you can’t change the past and what we need to do now is move forward and pass a budget for the rest of FY2011.

Jody, the Dems held a majority in both the House and Senate in the 111th Congress!!! How could they not pass it? They passed Obamacare and other legislation but not the budget!!!

Filibusters by the minority GOP. The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act was ultimately passed through reconciliation, to get around the filibuster obstruction.

The Democrats said "No" to a budget and no to doing their job, Democrats had majorities in both the Senate and House, and a democratic President in the White House, and still failed to do their job. How dare they say the budget crisis is not of their making!

Ward, have you had your head up your posterior for the last two and a half years? From the day the election results came in on November 2008 the Republicans set up blocks on EVERYTHING the Democrats have tried to do. They even went so far as to block the release of money for programs that were passed, namely the relief aid to Haiti as one. (Google "republican blocks haiti relief") Even before they took office in 2011 they were already blocking any last minute bills under the previous congress, namely the 2011 budget. You want to know what the Republicans stand for just Google "Republicans block".

Ward - The 2011 Budget was deemed passed in the House but it could not be brought to the floor for discussion in the Senate due to Republican filibusters. Some say, they could have used reconciliation, but reconciliation is used on the final vote to pass a bill after debate. Since it never even got to the floor for discussion, it could not be voted on.

Health care was passed through reconciliation only after it had been negotiated for a year and people were so sick of all the holds and filibusters that they finally allowed debate on the floor because it was clear the Dems were going to keep fighting for it. I don't know where you could have been these last two years to have missed hearing about the obstructive tactics employed by the Republicans. The only things that got passed were things the Dems were able to get past the Republican obstruction brigade. That's where all the back room deals that everyone was so upset about came from.

You forget about the slick move the Dems made by burying about 100 billion in their so called 'health care' policy......pork, pork and more pork. It will never end.

Yes, but Senate Republicans blocked that effort last year. It should be passed before the new fiscal year begins but it rarely does these days at least not when you have one party who said NO, blocked, delayed, denied and obstructed everything the past two years. That's the reality of last year not my political view.

Could you give a source for this little tidbit? I cannot seem to find anything in regards to the Democrats even attempting to do the 2010 budget before October 2010. So either your telling mis-truths or very ill informed.

Please explain to me how the Republicans blocked the budget when the dems had a majority in both houses and held the White House as well. It was simple fear of the upcoming elections that led to inaction. Even John Stewart (about the only liberal commentator that tries to stick to facts) voiced his frustration with the liberals. And before anyone starts throwing out generalizations, I am not a fan of Beck, FOX, or Limbaugh either. Just trying to cut through the BS out there and stick to the facts.

Do any of you remember there is majority vote rule that requires the Dems to have 60 votes in the Senate to pass legislation and when Kennedy died they lost that majority. It did not matter what the House Dems sent forward in proposed legislation, Senate Republicans from about 9 months into this administration have had the ability to block almost everything - and they have!

Not only did the Democrats not pass a budget- they never even tried. No budget was submitted by the last congress (budgets start in the House)- probably out of political cowardice in an election year. Those in this thread who claim the failure to pass a budget last year was the fault of Republics 'saying no' or filibuster in the Senate are wrong. It is the fault of Democrats 100%.

That said, both parties now need to move forward.

e_pluribus_anum,

The health care bill was passed after Kennedy died. Apparently the Democrats were able to unite to pass that controversial gem without a single republican vote. But they (the Democrats) could not unite for the budget, which makes it a bipartisan failure to pass a budget, in spite of the fact that the Democrats theoretically could have passed one without them.

Bottom line is if the Democrats who were in charge had done their jobs last fall and passed a budget there would have been no chance for a shutdown, so in that respect it is their fault!!

My bottom line is I believe BOTH parties are at fault and NEITHER party is serious about reducing spending. When the Democrats are willing to include entitlement and social program spending and the Republicans are willing to include defense and corporate welfare spending in budget cut talks I'll believe they're serious, until then, it's business as usual !!

To the uninformed, when Ted Kennedy passed away and Scott Brown was elected in his place, the majority Democrat senate lost its majority vote override of filibusters. No bill could be passed last year, without bipartisan support.

To suggest that Democrats hadn't tried, is facetious and ignorant. Democrats had passed a continuing appropriations bill in March of 2010, and then after the elections, passed a week extension, and then caved in to continuation of Bush-era tax cuts for the rich, in order to get the continuation through this year.

So far, Republicans have shown that they would like to move the goal posts - as noted by Open Congress and a whole host of sites - that Boehner got more than he asked for (the $33B in cuts), and then came back requiring more than he requested.

Republican politics as usual.

As an Independent, 2010 I voted for the republicans to do what they said. Now is the time to shut the gov'nt down. This is Obama and the dems fault if it shuts down. They jamed Obamacare throu and had majorities in 2010 and did not do their job. Yes they passed Obamacare throu reconciliation so they could have done that with the 2011 budget but did not.

If the shut down happens it's the dems fault and they can have all the talking points they want it won't work In 2012 I and many like me won't forget, The dems will loose it all. Mark my words.

Sen. Chumar is a liar, and he can humm and himm the rabbit is out of the hat now.

From what the news media have announced and what the President has stated from day 1 of his term, both the Republicans and Democrats must reach across the aisle to obtain a compromise. I believe the bloated political egos by grandstanding politicans backed by lobbyists have built walls around their narrow-mindedness. They cannot see over the wall nor the forest for their own favored trees, their own favored projects and their favored rants. We hear mindless circular dribble again and again. Can any of them see the greater good anymore past their own noses? I doubt it. Over the past 20 years, I believe the Republicans are more self-absorbed and lobbyist persuaded than ever---backed by the rich, who have no idea nor want to see nor ever comprehend how those earning less than $100,00 manage to live in the U.S.

The Democrats said "No" to a budget and no to doing their job, Democrats had majorities in both the Senate and House, and a democratic President in the White House, and still failed to do their job. How dare they say the budget crisis is not of their making!

Yuch I just stepped into a pile of troll doodoo. The nerve of these idiots trying to make like this budget impasse is the Democrats fault. Now listen up. no branch will ever take my way or the highway it about compromise and when these fools in the house finally realize that the budget will pass. Senate repuboicabs fillibustered and delayed passage o f the bill last year and most of the freshman class in the hosue said they were there to shut the government down Google it if you do not believe it.

Can you say "George Soros?" This lobbyist funded Obama for President. A billioner....he can put any republican to shame with the money he gave Obama. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Fact is fact.

& the same thing can be said about last election just change lobbist to un-named corporations (since they didn't have to say where the money came from) & President Obama to Teabaggers & Republicans.

GOP "you have to agree to 33 billion in cuts or we'll shut down the guv'ment!"

Tea Party "Shut it down, shut it down"

Dems"wow, are you serious...well, OK 33 billion it is OK?"

GOP "you have to agree to 65 billion in cuts or we'll shut down the guv'ment!"

Tea Party "Shut it down, shut it down"

Dems "Hey we already compromised, we can't do 65 billion! no way!"

GOP "you have to agree to 65 billion in cuts plus defund every agency we find distasteful or inconvienent or we'll shut down the guv'ment!"

Dems "this is getting worse and worse, I though we had a deal!"

Tea Party "Shut it down, shut it down"

Pres Obama "Hey why am I the only adult in the room here? work out a deal and make this thing work!"

Tea Party "Shut it down, shut it down"

GOP "now we want everything our way all the time or we'll shut down the guv'ment!"

Dems "Jeez! there's no pleasing you people, you are totally unreasonable and we're running out of time!"

Tea Party "Shut it down, shut it down"

Pres Obama "OK you knuckleheads the economy is going to tank again if you can't figure this out NOW!"

Tea Party "Shut it down, shut it down"

BOOM! times out...

GOP"waaaa BoooHo...the Dems are so unreasonable, they are totally to blame for the shutdown"

Tea Party "HooRay we Shut it down, shut it down"

... an effective reenactment.

PERFECT illustration, Cincinnati Slim. And, Boehner's only response to his inability to LEAD members of his own party is to say that Obama is not leading.....Obama has been working behind the scenes, trying to convince grown folk to act like adults. smh

Neither side can get 100% of what it wants -- that is the art of compromise. Idiots!

time to get rid of the GOP and those idiot tea baggers, everybody screaming cut cut but none of them want to do without anything. what do you want to cut? firemen, police, educators, road maintenance, bridge repairs, veteran benefits, medicare for grandparents? yea right

Jody and all, when was it blocked in the Senate? I couldn't find anything that said that the 2011 budget was ever passed by the House, just that there has been continuing resolutions since September 30, 2010.

And, Dennis, it is important to know what should have happened six months ago so that we can move forward. I'm not here to assign blame, I just want to know why that hasn't been taken care of already.

Edward, are you rich? If not, what benefit has Republicans ever gave you. I have never seen any benefit they give, but to the rich, big companies and big corporations. If I was rich, I still would be a Socialist Democrat. They are the only ones that are fair to the Middle Class, poor, retired and disabled people. Obama and most of the Democrats are middle right and get money from the rich to not do anything for the middle class, retired, poor and disabled. There is no money in that group of people. Money talks. It can buy almost anything or anyone.

bc

You're correct but don't forget what they want to keep. Pork for their campaign contributors. Boehner wanted to give millions to a company in his home district for a contract that even the defense department has been trying to stop for years. (Google "Boehner pork in his district")

I don't understand how anyone could be for our current level of spending, regardless of party affiliation. This is stupid. It's also inexcusable. We need a balanced budget amendment. Anyone that is for continuous deficit spending is for the destruction of our country. If the government shuts down, so what. That's less money being flushed down the toilet.

Hoooray for Porky "Boner" and his Grumpy Ole Pricks. You elected these aholes, now live with them. If you're poor, disabled, a hungry child, or have to depend on the gov for any small stipend, bend over cause the GOP is here to help. Anybody remember what a scumbucket named Bush did to this country?

Christine, are you so dense that you can't see that the Republicans can't even agree among themselves now so is it any wonder that the Democrats could not get a budget bill passed with all the opposition from the Republicans in the House last year with the election coming up? Republicans said "NO" to everything the Democrats tried to do last year and were too busy play politics to get a bill passed. If your argument holds water, why since the Republicans now hold the majority, can't they pass a budget now? Because of the Democrats?? It doesn't pass the BS test to blame the Democrats for not passing a bill when they had the majority and not blame the Republicans now that they have the majority.

Sorry Gunny, but the dems held the purse strings while GW was in office, so blame them for your issues.

Thorndawg....a balanced budget amendment would be the equivalent to "automatic tax increases".

gunny

seems to me I remember things cruising along pretty well until about 2007 when dems took over the house and senate

A balanced budget does not demand any tax increases. It means stop throwing away money. Government is way too big, and spends way too much. Stop subsidizing foreign countries. Stop subsidizing corporations. End welfare programs. Eliminate redundant agencies. Get rid of Homeland Security, the A.T.F., Department of Energy, Department of Agriculture, Department of Education, reduce federal staff size, repeal Obama-care, and eliminate retirement benefits for elected office.

cinncinati slim,

perfect depiction of the concept of wanting more and therefore nothing gets done. GREED! POWER! lead the corruption. Those that think we can operate with only one side of any political party our democracy was based on checks and balances and without them Republicans would enslave the rest of the world in some greed for domination of world power. Democrats would blow the budget on giving chairty money to welfare by promoting empathy for those lazy and not seeking employment becasue they make more making babies than they could working a job. Spend what they dont have because they dont implement rules or conditions and follow-up. WE NEED BOTH. In a time of crisis we shoudl be able to put aside the differences otherwise who is to say that the democrats could say the republicans caused the shut down by not comprimising. What good would shifting the blame allow. NO GOOD TO ANYONE. All the cry babies just agree to disagree and allow 33 billion cut that was initially set out and next time try to manage your time better. Procrasination is not on the agenda for this topic. Cutting funds to our troops in afganistan is unfair who wants to be in that hell-hole in the first place? they did their time and deserve to that which they were promised otherwise they will have to go to drafting as there will be no incentive for any volunteers anymore if after their services rendered we throw them to the curb because we did not project them in the budget as we should.

Obviously no one here understands that "welfare" is corporate welfare. Yes, it is put in the hands of those who have nothing, but it GOES to the corporate receivers. If the lowest end of the population is penniless, it is the WalMarts of the world that lose. It is intended to keep as many people participating in the economy as possible. That includes family who would otherwise have to be out of the work force to care for elderly and disabled, along with the elderly and disabled themselves.

Stand at the front door of WalMart on the 1st - 3rd of the month and do a head count, then go back on the 20th and count again. That's where "welfare" goes. That's why "welfare" exists.

To Cincinnati Slim:

Isn't that how the GOP acted last Dec. when they held the middle class, elderly, poor, and foreign negotiations as hostages until the RICH ELITE got their numerous tax cuts FIRST ?? Same ole, same ole group of Rethugblicans as usual with all for themselves and "NO" for everything else at the other end of the scale. Shutting their Government down doesn't matter to them since all of Congress will receive their paychecks, which they really wouldn't miss since the majority of them are millionaires already. Until tonight even the military pay would have been stopped, too. I can just imagine what kind of message that sends to the troops in the way of moral support. Send the young people off to the wars to fight for and to protect the sorry tushes left behind to whine (Congress, too), and never mind giving the soldiers their paychecks. However, late tonight the right wing said that they would not deny the soldiers their pay. Wow! How generous of them!! Are they sure that gesture is not practicing, "Socialism", since they'd be giving something to the middle class and poor??? (Heaven forbid that they should practice such a gesture when that is not for the elite.)

I'm certain that our troops will remember the consequences of a shut down when the November 2012 General Election comes around...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

www.military.com

Budget Impasse May Sink Troops' Paychecks

April 06, 2011
Associated Press

Excerpts:

WASHINGTON -- U.S. military troops at war in Iraq and Afghanistan would receive one-week's pay instead of two in their next paycheck if the government shuts down this weekend due to the federal budget impasse, according to a senior defense official.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss personnel issues, said the military can't be paid during a funding lapse until a new appropriations bill or continuing resolution is passed by Congress.

If the funding bill expires on April 8, it will be in the middle of the military's two-week pay period, so Pentagon would send out paychecks for just the first week of the pay period, said the official.

Related story: Debt Ceiling Vote Has Military Pay in the Cross-Hairs

justsaying-2022285

To quote you:

"Sorry Gunny, but the dems held the purse strings while GW was in office, so blame them for your issues."

I don't know where you got you invalid facts (or made up fiction) from; but you stand to be corrected with your misinformation that the Dems held the purse strings while Bush was in the oval office, which you inferred the entire time. It was the Republicans who controlled the White House and Congress for Bush's entire first term when he ran off like a chicken with his head cut off to start up two wars (one illegally), while squandering the surplus money left by Clinton as-well-as borrowing all the money from SS, which had been very stable at the time. It was not until the last two years plus a few months of Bush's second term that the Dems took full control of the Congress and the purse strings. But isn't that just typical of the Rethugblicans to twist the facts to suit their mantra of propaganda????

To rradiko;

Tonight's Fox News gave a different interpretation of pay for the troops. But then we all know how Fox News reports the facts with a slant. However, we must give Fox News credit for asking Glen Beck to leave, since his popularity has dropped to 30% in the rating polls due to his "stepping off the edge of a cliff". I just wonder what took Fox so long to do it. Oh well, better late, than never at all !!!!!!

But Feisty, remember the Republican playbook: they always project blame on the other guy

OMG NDD - Just take a LOOK at this:

"I firmly believe that by Friday a deal will be made," she said on MSNBC's The Daily Rundown. "I doubt that we'll see a government shutdown in the final analysis."

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/04/06/6418522-bachmann-doubts-shutdown-wont-back-budget-compromise

And couple of hours later, where does she POP up:

At a Tea Party rally outside the Capitol on Wednesday, Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) blamed Democrats for refusing to compromise on the budget, muddling the message of which side wants a government shutdown.

"It appears that they've decided that they're going to take two feet and put them in the mud and not move one tiddlywink," she said. "They've stated they want to shut down the government, and they want to blame in on you."

Taking her words as a cue, Tea Partiers, many of them holding signs advocating government shutdown, re-started a familiar chant: "Shut it down! Shut it down!"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/06/government-shutdown-looms-talks-continue_n_845383.html#44_tea-partiers-shut-it-down

I've never seen anything like this is my lifetime!

If you made this stuff up and tried to sell it as a screen play, no one would buy it!

In essence, as I see it the republican retort is: "Yeah,...but the dems made me do it...."

Ill-founded, immature, irresponsible and not helpful.

So. You gonna' get out of your high chair and start solving this thing or what repubs?

If you made this stuff up and tried to sell it as a screen play, no one would buy it!

You got it New Day!! Who would you cast to play Boenher?

Who would you cast to play Boenher?

It's a shame W.C. Fields is dead... lol

So safecracker, what have you got to offer except chastising others? I don't see a lot you are adding to the discussion. Or have I misread you??

Boy, you got me Greg. Unless Tom Cruise is available. He is the same kind of crazy needed for the role, though I don't think he is orange enough.

Safecracker is another angry Tea Bagger.

Safecracker is another angry Tea Bagger.

You noticed! lol

They sure seem to have a burr in their saddles today don't they?

Who would play Boehner? I say we get one of those sausage people running around Milwaukee, put him/her under a heat lamp until the blister and turn dark orange, and then teach them to pee their pants every time a tea bagger speaks.

ROTFLMFAO Daryl!

When I saw his 'press conference' yesterday and he was all sweaty & glowing, I thought he must of OD'd on the tanning bed!

Heat lamp is a MUCH better idea...

You don't see the irony in claiming someone cannot offer anything of substance to a discussion, and that he/she only makes verbal attacks and then turn around make verbal attacks against that person?

By the way, it's the Afghanistan War, not President Obama's war. You know, the only one of the two wars we are in that had a legitimate rationale for waging initially even if it's probably suffering from mission creep now. Nevertheless, I see you cannot be bothered with facts, so I digress.

Jason, I may be wrong, but I think the fellow, Safecracker, was referring to the Libyan conflict as Obama's war. You're correct in saying Afghanistan is the only legititmate war we are in at this time. Iraq is done with and the troops will be leaving soon, and Libya was never agreed upon by the Congress so in essence it is Obama's war.

I highly doubt Gaddahfi will leave and I think our President will lose his war. Mr. G. just sent a letter to Obama wishing his luck on his re-election bid in 2012!!

These Arabs have a big difference in philosophy from ours.

Safecracker, I just don't see what it contributes to any discussion to call people names. It's like we're in 5th grade!

What does calling people "libbie trolls" contribute? I have heard people referring to the other side(s) as "Republicants" or "Pee Baggers." That doesn't contribute either. Namecalling just isn't appropriate in adult behavior, and certainly not when we are trying to have a serious discussion of issues.

Until we can get beyond this basic disrespectful language, and therefore discourteous behavior toward each other, how can we ever expect to pass a budget?

"Who would you cast as Boehner......?"

Feisty's suggestion of WC Fields would be good and I nominate Charlie Chaplin....

.....again too bad both dead but maybe that would be appropriate for the role of Boehner.........a non-living but animated mannikin of either WCF or CC that had a recorded voice saying NO, NO NO.......Democrat's Fault, over and over and over

firecracker said:

"By the way Feisty, how's that Obama War coming along for ya?"

-----------------------------------------------------

firecracker, that was the most ignorant statement of redirective blame I've heard from any commenter, all morning.

The Obama Administration as well as the Republicans are trying to put an end to what Obama's predecessors started, with the unilateral invasion of Iraq (based on what was later revealed to the Press by his cabinet's ex-advisers and ex-spokespersons to be a series of crafted lies to get all of us into the war, no less), and that Bush and Cheney redirected troops away from Afghanistan to put Saddam out of power because G.W. Bush wanted to show down his father, Bush Sr. As a result, it bought insurgents in Afghanistan time to regroup and flourish.

Now, it's up to everyone to in this current Administration fix this problem, including the GOP (and the Dems) that supports funding the troops even if a shutdown occurs. That Pastor Jones that oversaw the burning of the Koran that Secretary of Defense Gates and Gen Petreaus strongly advised against -- but he and his church did it anyway, and as a result, innocents died, and that disrespectful act of vandalism and religious intolerance put all of our troops our in the field at risk even more so by the backlash they now have to face by civilians that would otherwise had been neutral or even helpful to the troops, but are no longer.

I viewed your profile, safecracker. What gets me is that Pastor, his congregation, as well as I'm sure that you and your peers -- voted and/or were opposed against anything this current Administration did to try to get any progress out of this economic morass we're now in if it wasn't for your political party's filibusters and objections to even humanitarian aid to our own citizens and our allies in their time of need.

It's no wonder with the statements you post you keep getting collapsed by the community. But I have a feeling that you -- like the rest of your emotionally-charged peers -- wear it as some kind of humorous, twisted, bragging rights, "badge of honor." Just like how your comments were shut down,

I'm sure you will also look forward to and applaud the government shutting down because that's what your friends in the Tea Party keeps demanding. Who gives a damn if the economy tanks even more, and as a result, innocent people in this country suffer and our troops are maimed or killed, so long as the decisions of your party's selfish ideology is demonstrated to the entire world, and imposed on us all, eh?

Kirigami

Safecracker, I just don't see what it contributes to any discussion to call people names. It's like we're in 5th grade!

What does calling people "libbie trolls" contribute? I have heard people referring to the other side(s) as "Republicants" or "Pee Baggers." That doesn't contribute either. Namecalling just isn't appropriate in adult behavior, and certainly not when we are trying to have a serious discussion of issues.

If you propose to call out one side....call out the other. The following diatribe certainly doesn't contribute anything like intelligence to the conversation. This is idiotic to say the least.

daryl-2183015

Who would play Boehner? I say we get one of those sausage people running around Milwaukee, put him/her under a heat lamp until the blister and turn dark orange, and then teach them to pee their pants every time a tea bagger speaks.

w bush

The hold up on passing the damn thing has nothing to do with the budget, it's the stupid ideological riders that the Republicans stuck on, the press doesn't seem interested in bringing that point out, so the simple minded voting electorate blame the wrong entity, best press money can buy.

I can't believe the T-baggers think attacking Healthcare as a rider will get the President's signature.

Talk a bunch of dummies.

So, are you telling me the government shut down is over banning the EPA from regulating water pollution and greenhouse gases and eliminating funding to Planned Parenthood and NPR?

It's not the Ryan budget proposals? I'm so confused.

Domenico Montanaro: technically, yea, you "have reported on the riders." 4th or 5th paragraph down, middle of paragraph.

You would think that entirley defunding the EPA, NPR, Planned Parenthood, and the healthcare law would have warranted a seperate report, rather than a sentence or two.

Amy, that is what it is about, but some how I think you already knew that.

Next on the agendais de-funding the Department of education and a whole lot of things yet to be revealed.

Of course the GOP want to throw the blame of a government shut down to the Democrats, they know what happened the last time they were found guilty of bullying the people. Now that they can't keep their tea bagging partners in check, the only way they can save face in front of the public is by misdirecting the blame to others. I can't wait to hear the excuse the GOP come up with next, after they cause the government to come down to a close. It looks like the only way to prevent that from happening is to withhold everyones pay in congress until a compromise is settled. any way I bet they continue the hold everything hostage till we get our way tactics, because that is the only thing they are good at.

Jody but its the donkey-"jackasses" who control the Senate and a weak man as President.

hfishman - No so weak...just very, very smart when it comes to dealing with the Republicans. He always ties them up in knots. They just can't stand that he gets the better of them.

hfishman. The democrats and President Obama have given the republicans $73 billion in spending cuts--initially republicans demanded $61 billion. What part of $73 billion is less than $61 billion? This is the House GOP's problem and the blame lies squarely on Boehner's shoulders because he's too weak to tell the Tea Party to buzz off. LAURIE is correct, President Obama is very smart and as always has again succeeded in tying them in knots.

"Knot Bad" Jody,

The real Knotty problem for democrats will be answering for all these blunders in 2012.

The GOP will not co-operate with Obama until he is in his second term. Then their current platform (no second term) will be gone and they'll have to think of something else.

Pity that the tea-baggers will STILL get their paychecks after shutting down the government.

Interesting how you and many others continue to ignore the fact Republicans filibustered everything, oh I guess anyone shouldn't be reminded of that. Or the fact the Republicans refusal to bring any bills to the floor because per Mitch McConnell "“The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president." Explain again how Republicans worked and compromised with Democrats to get a budget passed.

One more Democrats have including have done everything they could by trying to meet Republicans half way. Now it's time for Republicans and Tea Party become grownups or at least act like grownups and do the same.

Maybe, just maybe, after getting trounced last mid-term the democrats decided that the american people would be happier if they waited until the newly elected congressmen were there to help determine the budget.

GC, Is there a filibuster in the House? All budget bills start in the House don't they? Did the House pass a budget bill last year? Did The all powerful Pelosi with a majority and no filibuster rules pass a budget bill? Did Pelosi even introduce a budget bill? Didn't think so but some how you want to blame it on a filibuster in the Senate. Really?

Rocco - the 2011 Budget was deemed passed by the House in July 2010. It was never brought to the floor for discussion in the Senate due to Republican filibusters.

Republicans want people not to know facts. Most people here supposrt GOP seemed lost in facts and go by sound bites of Palin, Beckmann and others. GOP came to power promising cuts. But those cuts affects the middle class. Across the board they want to pay back big companies threw money at their election. If we are in such big hurry to balance the budget, why did we gave tax break for millioners. In elections GOP talk about abortion, gun rights and employement and when they get power they their policy is to outsource jobs. All new GOP governers hurting the middle class. Look at wisconsin, ohio, Penneylavania

JoAnnaSmith1

Pales in comparison to what Bush (both of em') spent wouldn't you say?

Smaller government JoAnna? Cut spending? Both parties agree it must happen, it is just a matter of where.

Repubs want to repeal the 20th century. Dems want government money and resources to go to the entity that funds it,.......the people. Repubs want more welfare for the well-off as they Reverse Robin Hood themselves into higher campaign contributions.

Government spending built the Internet,...the forum you are reading and posting on right now. Your cell phone? Cell phone communication satellites were placed into orbit using government funds. Nobody tossed them into space,....trust me. Without government funding building an aircraft carrier by yourself is probably a heap tougher than it looks. I'd start now if I were you.

Yes, government spending can do awesome things!! If you repubs are so against government funding / programs why are red states such prodigious consumers of it?

Smaller government JoAnna? Cut spending? Both parties agree it must happen, it is just a matter of where.

Great observation Greg! You are the only one to state this simple fact. It appears the Republicans want to cut all the programs we need to make our country a better place to live with a clean environment, quality education system, and progressive social programs.

The riders in HR-1 defund half of the government. They don't cut the size of government, just say that funds can't be used for the things TeaPublicans don't like, for example, closing Guantanimo Bay, moving the prisoners, NPR, Planned Parenthood, the Dept. of Education, the EPA, the FCC.

For a complete look, google HR-1 and go to the end of the bill. heres a link: http://www.ombwatch.org/files/budget/OMB_Watch-HR1_Policy_Riders.pdf

dirp101, I opened the link and read it.

...O M G !

This is the longest list of poison-packed riders continually introduced into any proposed budget bill that I've ever seen!

The House Republicans seriously want to do away with anything in the Federal government that their Tea Party ideology disagrees with!

I noticed that one of their many riders calls for stopping the implementation of Net Neutrality. If they get their way, it's going to be more restrictive and more expensive for Americans, everyone on the left, the right, the centrists -- save for the monied class and corporations -- to view or communicate on the internet without interference. If the GOP wants the corporations to control cyberspace and take power away from the users, this is the way to do it. The internet was NOT designed to favor the few!

If they get their way, it's quite possible that you can say "goodbye" to discussion forums or blogsites (like this one for MSNBC, or in contrast, even right-wing forums on Fox News) because one of the telecoms or corporations will deem free public comment posting boards, "unprofitable" for the amount of freedom of speech websurfer traffic it attracts. (On Wikipedia, look up "Net Neutrality" and you'll see what I'm talking about).

One of their riders also wants to do away with support for the "Fairness Doctrine." in news reporting. NOT GOOD! This means the right-wing wants to actively promote ever-more biased political and religious propaganda content within the Press, and within all publicly available news sites in the United States. (Again, you can if you like, look up on Wikipedia, an explanation of the 'Fairness Doctrine'). Combine that with their right-wing demand to end government support for Net Neutrality, and, if you want access to politically neutral news reporting within the U.S.-- you just may end up paying additional subscription fees to get access to it, in the near future.

Larry - Seriously? Is that how you see it? Never mind that the Democrats have met the Republicans more than halfway on their budget cut demands. What's the matter 70% not good enough for you? What is it about negotiation you don't understand. One side gives and the other side gives. In a negotiation no side gets 100%. So what's your beef?

Larry said: "When are people going to realize that a government shutdown is not a bad thing…"

You must be too young to remember the last time the Republicans shut down the government or are just stupid or both. The analogy you use comparing a household budget to a government budget is fallacious, but is being pushed by FOX and the right wingers. You have probably never taken a microeconomics or macroeconomics course, so you buy this simpleton explanation being pushed by the right wing lunatics.

Laurie

You guys had two years to do things your way and you made things infinetely worse than they were when Bush left office.

Face it...progressivism will NEVER work

Larry - Hah! Nice try but I'm not biting. Democrats saved this country from going down the tubes after Bush basically destroyed the economy. So spin it your way if it makes you feel better.

"One set of people (Republicans / Tea Party / Conservatives) are saying that just like the American people and the states, the Federal Government needs to live within it's means"

Two unfunded wars, tax cuts, and Bush's prescription drug plan that put us into this hole, says otherwise.

Amy, were the two unfunded wars the two wars that Bush went to Congress for approval? You know, those folks who were for the war before they were against it? Didn't those folks have ownership too?

Larry, You're 100% right on. I have a question for all those people with their hands out asking why don't the Republicans compromise since the Democrats seem so eager to do so. Was there any hint of compromise when the Democrats, led by Nacey & her cronies, rammed Obama care down the throats evry hard working American? There wasn't even discussion allowed on the subject. And Heaven forbid they allow the bill to be read & understood before a vote was taken. The Democrats are drowning this country in debt and are too cowardly to do what's necessary so that our children, grand children & great grand children aren't paying for the greed of liberal socialist politicians who are only looking out after themselves & their electability. It's easy for them to give hand outs, now they need to figure out how to pay for them. Oh, I forgot, tax the rich.

Reading the posts here, the nature of this problem became more clear to me. A few posts came close to saying this -- I'm going to try saying it another way.

We've got two different mindsets going on in Congress. The Democrats favor the traditional, Ted Kennedy approach -- assume good faith, work things out and come up with a compromise that will work.

Sadly, today's Republican approach has nothing to do with compromise or good faith. They want what they want, and when they get it they want more.

(When we acted that way as kids, my grandmother would say "Give you an inch, and you take a yard!")

Whether you are talking about the budget or about the wars Bush got us into, the Democrats take an inclusive position, favoring unity; while the Republicans take an offensive and divisive stance.

Another quote -- not from my grandmother, but still a good one: "Democrats think the glass is half full; Republicans think the glass is theirs."

Larry you can tell what side you are on and the insults about parties may be cute to you but they do seem to reveal a froydian image of a man still clinging to his daddy pants leg.

This budget issue should have been settled last year, this years budget also has to be resolved and the people whos job it is to do it are avoiding it by waiting nuntil the last min. to do what should have been done 12 months ago.

the voice of the people isn't making them do their job and the verbal attacks on each other for having a opinion is only a distraction to what isn't being done to begin with

By reading these posts, one can understand why the Democrats and Republicans in all the States and in the Federal Gov't can not agree on anything. The country is split 50 - 50 unless one side gets overly pissed, spends money and pushes hard like they did in Wisconsin while the other side sits idle.

When it is split 50 - 50, what ever gets passed, stays for a very long time. This is the reason why Obama care was such a big deal. The Democrats in control knew they could not win after passing this bill, but pass it they did because like the workers in Japan at the Nuclear facility, they took the hit for their company (party). They knew the Tea Party Express was pissed enough to push hard.

Being a 50 - 50 split, there is also the danger of having an all out fight between the two sides. Even if one state dominated by one side (Conservative or Liberal) decides to quit the Union, if the Federal Gov't steps in, all hell could break loose for all of us. Far fetched and conspiratorial you say? Look what happened to the 14 Democrats that ran away from their responsibility in Wisconsin and those in Ohio. STAYING is no longer an option if one's party doesn't get their way. You will be seeing this more and more until there is a bill passed that will prevent it from happening.

The American people can not sustain the fiscal hole we are in. We are talking about Trillions of dollars in the hole. That means we took the past 30 years to do this, it will take us more than that to get out. With people running away from their responsibilities and not sitting down together to work it our, we are in for a lot of grief in the next 5 years.

Larry, do you really believe that union crap?? You must listen to glen limbaugh!!

Gee Larry, I don't know. I might have a problem with the fact that my husband will be in a combat zone and stressing over the fact that me and the kids will be living off credit cards as long as we can until he starts to get a paycheck again. Because these idiots (who will be getting paid btw) are going to drag this out until one of them smells blood. I would prefer my hubby have no distractions while trying to deal with IEDs and bullets. I don't care who gives. The perfect solution for me is a 1% cut across the board to everything. Seriously, who couldn't cut 1% out of their budget and not survive until next year. It should easily add up to a number both sides could be proud of. That brilliant thought took less than 5 minutes and not alot of concentration (I have 2 toddlers playing around me). These idiots (both parties, no one is innocent here) have had over six months to figure SOMETHING out and this is their job. We need new reps and term limits for government to function properly. If they lost their insurance and pay during a shutdown, you can be sure this would have been passed awhile ago.

The blame fall squarely on the Democrats for not coming up with a budget last FY.

And why should they "compromise" wth the Dems exactly?

What did you think would happen after that stunt your people pulled with Obamacare? Your guys didnt take one Republican idea and implement it....

I believe the saying is turn about is fair play?

And anyways.... the Democrats Spend Spend Spend mentality has worn on the american people. If you want a future for your kids youd be wise to realize that we need to actually live withon our means and bring tax rates to a level where corporations are actually willing to do business here

The Republicans had an idea??!!! Whoa…hold the presses!! Please remind us of the Republican idea(s) that were not implemented in the health care reform bill.

"Your guys didnt take one Republican idea and implement it"

Democrats took the public option off the table because Republicans wouldn't support it.

Totally agree Brian.

"Your guys didnt take one Republican idea and implement it"

Amy that is total BS the majority of the health care reform act were Republican ideas they were for it before they were against it. Once President Obama agreed to one of their ideas all of a sudden they were against that very idea.

JFK-2112

The blame fall squarely on the Democrats for not coming up with a budget last FY.

But that ship sailed last year without a yelp from you then. What are your solutions for TODAY"S problems dude?

Brian,

Sure Republicans are able to formulate ideas, unlike those Dems: Obie/Nancy/Harry who controlled the House and Senate while choosing not to submit a budget.

And GC, the Republican ideas on health care were not what you say in you posting. Their plan was less costly while impacting many positively. ObamaCare may not even pass the commerce clause. But the Supreme Court will rule that.

Larry-2767404

And why should they "compromise" wth the Dems exactly?

What did you think would happen after that stunt your people pulled with Obamacare? Your guys didnt take one Republican idea and implement it....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And what the hell do you think the personal mandate was? That little gem originated with the Heritage foundation and put into practice by A Republican governor. Try to keep up for pitys sake.

The Republicans are working towards a balanced budget, so a 4% cut is a HUGE compromise.. If Democrats had compromised (voting down every Republican attempt to change the budget) we would never be six months into the fiscal year without a budget.

I'm reposting this appropriate comment made by, "Peter in MT-995437"

-------------------------------------------------------------

Peter in MT-995437

Republicans, everywhere it seems, are drunk with power.

I often think about the quote from a somewhat disallusioned Republican Bush adviser speaking before GWB's first term as President that went something like

"These people don't want to govern, they want to RULE."

I've never thought the same way about Republicans since. They are not about governing. It's all about (their) money and the power that comes with it.

Best of luck, Wisconsin, and many others. If Democrats and we Independents don't get off of our rear ends...welcome to the future.

--------------------------------------------------------

"If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it can not save the few who are rich" - John F. Kennedy

You can equally replace "Banana Republican and Tea Republican" with "Progressive Liberals" and get the same response to your flooding the internet.

There is an idealogical difference now in this country and it unfortunately could be settled in a very harse manner unless people start to work together.

It can be argued that the Tea Party, in their zeal to eliminate most of government while promoting the interests of private sector corporations under the guise of patriotism, God and the Free Market, have ideologically turned their backs on the Social Contract as promoted by our Founding Fathers that were inspired by the writings of Thomas Hobbes (1651), John Locke (1689), and Jean-Jacques Rousseau (1762).

From Wikipedia:

According to Thomas Hobbes, human life would be "nasty, brutish, and short" without political authority. In its absence, we would live in a state of nature, where each person has unlimited natural freedoms, including the "right to all things" and thus the freedom to harm all who threaten our own self-preservation; there would be an endless "war of all against all" (Bellum omnium contra omnes). To avoid this, free men establish political community i.e. civil society through a social contract in which each gains civil rights in return for subjecting himself to civil law or to political authority.

Alternatively, some have argued that we gain civil rights in return for accepting the obligation to respect and defend the rights of others, giving up some freedoms to do so; this alternative formulation of the duty arising from the social contract is often identified with arguments about military service.

The social contract and the civil rights it gives us are neither "natural rights" nor permanently fixed. Rather, the contract itself is the means towards an end — the benefit of all — and (according to some philosophers such as Locke or Rousseau), is only legitimate to the extent that it meets the general interest ("general will" in Rousseau). Therefore, when failings are found in the contract, we renegotiate to change the terms, using methods such as elections and legislature. Locke theorized the right of rebellion in case of the contract leading to tyranny.

--------------------------------

And again, I repost up this thoughtful comment by "Peter in MT-995437":

Peter in MT-995437

Republicans, everywhere it seems, are drunk with power.

I often think about the quote from a somewhat disillusioned Republican Bush adviser speaking before GWB's first term as President that went something like

"These people don't want to govern, they want to RULE."

I've never thought the same way about Republicans since. They are not about governing. It's all about (their) money and the power that comes with it.

Best of luck, Wisconsin, and many others. If Democrats and we Independents don't get off of our rear ends...welcome to the future.

--------------------------------------------------------

"If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it can not save the few who are rich" - John F. Kennedy

how is it that all republicans , think all democrats/independents are "deadbeats" ? i have been working since i was 12 that is 38 years i have been working and paying taxes . no body ever gave me a dam thing . i vote independant and i wont be voting for any of the idiots talked about on the repub list .

I think they get that krap from fox "news"...

When republicans label the other side as using "smoke and mirrors", they really mean that's what they're doing. I'm thinking the GOP keeps moving the goal posts is the mirrors and the smoke is telling us they didn't move the goal posts at all, it's an illusion.

Mr Boehner is the most disingenuous politician I have ever seen,... in the U.S. He'd be par for the course in the Middle East, Africa ,or Asia.

It might be interesting to research the run up to the civil war or the revolution of 1917 (Russia), and compare them to here and now.

Just look at the speaker's military record...

Skookum Jim - Look at him! Would you?

Skookum Jim! Why would anyone want to kiss Boehner's a** - we all know that it has been bought and sold twice a day for years. Kissing an Ebola patient would make more sense.

You tell the libbies Oneman. The GOP is evil for submitting a plan while the Dems. continue to be the New Party of NO, Where were they in October? Where is the Dem plan? Where is the Obama plan?

Where is Waldo anyway? Trying on a new suit that may have ballroom?

The Emperor has no clothes!

There's a whole list proving President Obama's leadership, it's just that republicans don't like what's on the list. President Obama and the democrats passed more legislation in two years than had been accomplished since LBJ. Them's the facts. It's the GOP Emperors who have no clothes, but they've convinced their faithful that they do have brand new suits on.

Jody, Your confusing activity with accomplishment again. Cutting a lawn with scissors creates a lot of activity but doesn't really accomplish a whole lot. Same with Obama's legislative activity.

Jody, typ. Dem- you talk about "...a whole list..." yet you fail to list a single thing. And, in your reply to this, tell me (again) why the Dems, controlling the house, senate and white house failed to pass a budget last year- I'm REALLY interested in the exact response (and don't tell me they were waiting for Obama's "Deficit Commission" report as they failed to act on ANY of the bipartisan recommendations). Now answer that for me (and include that "list of accomplishments" if you will please).

In the context of politics, what's your definition of "leadership"? Or, "funding"?

Since you don't want to risk defining it, I'll help you:

Google the Gallup poll, "Obama's Leadership Qualities Stand Out to Americans" Although it's dated 2009, it gives us a definition of leadership qualities categorically assessed by Gallup's respondents.

Google: "Obama administration funding" Lots of 'funding' going on, and a lot of it being blocked by the GOP.

And consider these past postings by other commenters:

----------------------------------------------

Chris, Cranbury, NJ.

Now, someone please correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the federal budget supposed to be passed before the federal government's fiscal year starts? Since the federal fiscal year starts on October 1, shouldn't it have been the job of the last Congress to pass the budget for fiscal 2011?

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Reply#2 - Wed Apr 6, 2011 10:22 AM HST
Jody, Iowa

Yes, but Senate Republicans blocked that effort last year. It should be passed before the new fiscal year begins but it rarely does these days at least not when you have one party who said NO, blocked, delayed, denied and obstructed everything the past two years. That's the reality of last year not my political view.

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#2.1 - Wed Apr 6, 2011 10:55 AM HST
Dennis, Columbus, Ohio

I don’t understand what you expect to get out of talking about what should have, could have happened 6+ months ago.

We all know that you can’t change the past and what we need to do now is move forward and pass a budget for the rest of FY2011.

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#2.2 - Wed Apr 6, 2011 11:14 AM HST
Ward-374799

Jody, the Dems held a majority in both the House and Senate in the 111th Congress!!! How could they not pass it? They passed Obamacare and other legislation but not the budget!!!

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#2.3 - Wed Apr 6, 2011 11:17 AM HST
Clotho

Filibusters by the minority GOP. The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act was ultimately passed through reconciliation, to get around the filibuster obstruction.

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#2.4 - Wed Apr 6, 2011 11:22 AM HST
Maude Elizabeth City, NC

The Democrats said "No" to a budget and no to doing their job, Democrats had majorities in both the Senate and House, and a democratic President in the White House, and still failed to do their job. How dare they say the budget crisis is not of their making!

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#2.5 - Wed Apr 6, 2011 11:26 AM HST
Larry-2260635

Ward, have you had your head up your posterior for the last two and a half years? From the day the election results came in on November 2008 the Republicans set up blocks on EVERYTHING the Democrats have tried to do. They even went so far as to block the release of money for programs that were passed, namely the relief aid to Haiti as one. (Google "republican blocks haiti relief") Even before they took office in 2011 they were already blocking any last minute bills under the previous congress, namely the 2011 budget. You want to know what the Republicans stand for just Google "Republicans block".

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#2.6 - Wed Apr 6, 2011 11:41 AM HST
Larry-2260635

Maude Elizabeth City, NC

The Democrats said "No" to a budget and no to doing their job,

and Ward-374799

Jody, the Dems held a majority in both the House and Senate in the 111th Congress!

Here's another couple that has their head up their posterior for the last 2 1/2 years.

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#2.7 - Wed Apr 6, 2011 11:48 AM HST
Heartlight3

Ward - The 2011 Budget was deemed passed in the House but it could not be brought to the floor for discussion in the Senate due to Republican filibusters. Some say, they could have used reconciliation, but reconciliation is used on the final vote to pass a bill after debate. Since it never even got to the floor for discussion, it could not be voted on.

Health care was passed through reconciliation only after it had been negotiated for a year and people were so sick of all the holds and filibusters that they finally allowed debate on the floor because it was clear the Dems were going to keep fighting for it. I don't know where you could have been these last two years to have missed hearing about the obstructive tactics employed by the Republicans. The only things that got passed were things the Dems were able to get past the Republican obstruction brigade. That's where all the back room deals that everyone was so upset about came from.

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#2.8 - Wed Apr 6, 2011 11:49 AM HST

Hey Doubter222 (optimistic name)-----where's all the political "kindness" that "your side" has accused "our side" of not showing? "Frigging jerk"? The jobs, "bonehead" are in the proposed reduction in corporate tax rate. That's right, it's hard to get industry to park their cash (e.g. GE's $14.2B Profit) in the USA at 35% tax rate, when they can "park it" in Ireland for 15%. The Repubs are for reducing the tax rate, eliminate the tax loops holes and keep the money at home. I'd rather get, say 22% of $14.2B than what your party delivers 0% of $14.2B. More money stays in the USA, ready for this" More jobs are created in a positive tax climate as business is willing to invest in a country where spending ISN"T OFF-THE-HOOK like it is now!

Hey Doubter222. it is politically incorrect to diss the disadvantaged. Ole Boehner does pretty good for someone with a low two-digit IQ. Pity that the GOP figured that qualified him for office, but they made the same mistake with Newt.

But when a party cannot learn from its earlier mistakes . . .

um, GE paid $0 in corporate taxes last year. def a better deal than I got.

oneman...

CRAP!

GE wasn't the only corporation that didn't pay their fair share in taxes.

This list was compiled by Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT):

----------------------------------------------

Top 10 Companies That Pay Little or No Taxes

Posted on: April 4, 2011 10:04 AM, by Ed Brayton

Here's a list of companies, released by Sen. Bernie Sanders, who made extraordinary profits over the last few years -- some of them after receiving billions, even hundreds of billions, in government bailout funds -- and paid very little if any federal taxes. And in many cases, they actually got huge transfers of tax dollars in the form of tax refunds instead of having to pay in. Like the #2 company on the list:

2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.

The full list:

1) ExxonMobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings. [Note: Our post last April reported that ExxonMobil was owed $46 million by the IRS.]

2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.

3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.

4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.

5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.

6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.

7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.

8) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.

9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.

10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.

-----------------------------------------------

Hey tea partiers, if you want to pay lower taxes yourself maybe it's time to make sure the largest companies in the world pay their fair share of taxes so you don't have to make up the difference. In the 1950s, business taxes were 30% of federal revenue. Now they're 6%. And going down.

@humansmatter,

What a jerk you are. Are you actually aware of what is in the Republican plan, or are you just hearing the Dm talking points?

The Dems have a history for the past two years of ramming everything down the throats of Americans. What policy hasn't had a large cost to taxpayers? And don't lead out with the continuation of the tax credits. That was an Obama bill.

According to Republicans, there are only two things Democrats can ever do:

1) Cram things down our throats; or

2) Kick the can down the road.

In other words, damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Clotho- Nope, they're just damned because, for the Dems, "government" is the answer. How sick is that?

oneman, So if "government" isn't the answer, then anarchy is the answer, eh?

One of my friends in Wisconsin asked one of the flown-in counter-protesters to the massive crowds demonstrating against Gov. Walker's plan to eliminate the labor right to negotiate in collective bargaining -- of which it was proved later to have nothing to do with the state's budget -- the Tea Partiers told my friend this after Karl asked them to define, "limited government." The T-Pers couldn't agree on what in the government to keep since they wanted to limit its role in the U.S. But in the end, the counter-protestors agreed that if the public sector didn't exist, then that would be "the ideal condition" for America.

In effect, they want anarchy.

"How sick is that?"