At 12:56 Kloppenburg is ahead by 235 votes with one precinct in Jefferson county left. I'm told this precinct is conservative, so the numbers may shift some. BTW, I'm told the voting machines are made by Diebold, which has no paper trail. Could be a bit hard to do a recount.

Milwaukee am620 is shouting voter fraud. Guess they also think Kloppenburg will win. I hear Anna Molly will buy drinks at the DDI.

Wow Mark, you gonna take that from Feisty. She's not just calling you out as a poor journalist, but also Chuck and Savannah.

Hey Feisty why don't you draft a set of exemplar questin for Mark, and perhaps he could pass them along to Chuck and Savannah.

I'd do it, but gosh, draft a good cross-exam is hard. Plus, and I know you especially will love this - it involves asking questions, and we all know how you and Bev. feel when you get questioned. :)

Irony. Thick and rich, but oh so funny. Thanks for the laugh Feisty. You are precious.

Ron ~ Read this:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/119308059.html

As of 11:30 a.m., the Associated Press had results for all but 1 of the state's 3,630 precincts and Kloppenburg had taken a 235 vote lead after Prosser had been ahead most of the night by less than 1,000 votes.

That one precinct would appear to be in the Town of Lake Mills, where town officials were meeting to count the last of the paper ballots.

State Rep. Kelda Helen Roys, who represents the Lake Mills area, said Prosser picked up only 2 votes in Lake Mills, pending the count of 24 handwritten ballots.

Unless this article is very poorly written, it sounds like there's still a good chance for Kloppenburg to win. Lake Mills is pretty close to Madison, and many of its residents work here, some of them in public sector jobs. It's not as conservative as the Milwaukee suburbs.

And, yes, if Kloppenburg wins the first count, I'll buy. If not, I'll be the one over in the corner nursing the blues.

Government shutdown helps nobody except those that already have. The rest of us will be left holding the bag again, democrats and republicans alike.

Feisty, most of America figured out that what we call MSM is, Conservative. The latest example is them Tooting Rep.Paul Ryans rollout yesterday of the "Finishing Touches in Destroying America Budget Plan"! The SHINEY TURD was coveredup by the MSM!

90% of the MSM should be Tried for Treason!

Spanky, anyone who reads or post here know "How bad YOU Hate to answer questions"!

They are That Bad!

Exactly. It's a lack of professional and moral courage when interviewers allow their fanatical guests to tell bold faced, easily refuted lies and not call them on it.

THE DEMS are going to take the heat because most people understand spendings the problem.

Anna Molly:

Don't think you will be feeling the "blues" . Things are looking good for KloJo. I wish I had thought of this, but I read it from another blogger. The Kock brothers are now suffering from electile dysfunction. Now that is feeling the "blues".

If you want a good laugh regarding the Wisconsin Supreme Court election read below;

"If an appeal is filed from a recount determination in an election which is held in more than one judicial circuit, the chief judge of the judicial administrative district in which the election is held must consolidate all appeals relating to that election and appoint a circuit judge to hear the appeal. If the election is held in more than one judicial administrative district, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court must make the appointment. [s. 9.01 (6) (b), Stats.]"

As of now Kloppenburg is ahead by roughly 230 votes. All votes in!

I bet he is regretting that "Bi$%h" comment directed at the Chief Justice now!

What I think which of course you wouldn't agree with is run all of the politicians in DC out of town and elect politicians that would support the people of their districts and states and the Country over blindly supporting the party bosses, this would apply to all dems, repubs and independents.

If you can figure out how to do that without campaign reform, term limits, eliminating lobbying, and retroactively aborting the "corporate person" birthed by the Supreme Court, please let us all know. Otherwise, anyone we vote in might as well run under the "Same Old Same Old" banner.

If you can figure out how to get campaign reform, term limits, and elimination of lobbying passed by the politicians who benefit from the current setup, change your screen name to God the Almighty, because that's the only one who could pull it off now.

Feisty, why should the Republicans compromise? The message of the last election was loud and clear. "Cut government spending

I somehow missed that - all that shrieking from the Weeper of the House and his minions, about where are the JOBS Mr. President, must have drowned it out! lol

BTW - Almost every economist out there agrees that the proposed cuts would increase unemployment and possibly prevent the recovery!

What these Teapublican clowns are doing is comprable to using a chain saw as a letter opener!

The last time I checked terms are in place. It's called elections.

Leave it MSNBC to call Congressional Republicans the plurality when 40% hold Obama And Congressional Dems responsible.... oobviously the majority hold Dems responsible, rightfully so, whether the sheep or their boss.

Only with Democratic "math" is 33 billion more than half of 100 billion. The $100 billion was the original goal for cuts. That 33 billion that Reid, Obama, et al are bitching and moaning about doesn't even meet Boehner's very first step and attempt at compromise put forward a whole month ago by him and the Republicans. Boehner's first attempt at compromise was reducing the 100 billion down to 61 billion or in other words a $39 billion compromise.

"WHY didn't Chuck or Savannah call her bluff and just ask WHEN & WHERE?" - Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Because they already know when and where. They compromised from that $100 billion in cuts in H.R. 1, February 19th, 2011.

Oh Fiesty, are you dumb enough to not realize that the democrats had control of both the house and senate and failed to get a budget done for over 2 years...they kicked the can down the road like they always do.

The blame lies with the democrats...you are blind and oblivious to think it lies anywhere else.

I bet he is regretting that "Bi$%h" comment directed at the Chief Justice now!

She has a very kind heart and a razor-sharp mind, and she is the hardest working person I ever met, but she takes no guff from anyone, and certainly not from the likes of David Prosser. From that comment, and the way he talked about, and to, Joanne Kloppenburg, I suspect he has a bit of a problem with uppity women.

Prosser can't hold a candle to the Chief Justice. Whatever made him say that, he no doubt deserved it, and that alone wouldn't make a difference in her thinking. But I'll bet she's smiling today.

She isn't petty, like he is, but she does have an exceptional, wry sense of humor.

I'll call it: JoAnne Kloppenburg wins by 233 votes. All votes have been counted.

A footnote: Representative Paul Ryan (R), district went 60% for Kloppenburg. Me thinks he better but that delusional ten year budget in the trash and go back to Wisconsin and start talking to real people...voters.

Jim in Houston-1509351

Feisty, why should the Republicans compromise? The message of the last election was loud and clear. "Cut government spending." All this talk of compromise is way overrated.

I can't speak for Red; but, I can tell you why I think you're wrong. Henry Clay did it.

You-t-baggers are in the minority now. Furthermore , we have a 2 party system which usually comprpmises. T-baggers have not learned the art of compromise yet even though they are a tiny sliver of America.

A 1.65 Trillion deficit and the Dem's can't even cut 61 BIllion... what a sad sad group they are...

What i love the most is all the do is cry and haven't offered ONE solution to solve the massive debt and deficits that have been created since 2007...

I should correct that. The Republicans' $39 billion compromise came February 19th...over 6 freakin' weeks ago!

If I recall, republicans claimed the last election was about the economy, "jobs, jobs, jobs" and repealing health care. Now, they claim it was about spending. How odd, the party that did the biggest share of the spending without the funding it was the GOP and yet not a word about spending was heard from conservatives or Tea Partiers for the 8 years of the Bush/Cheney budget-busting administration. Now, it's the only thing they talk about.

I somehow missed that - all that shrieking from the Weeper of the House and his minions, about where are the JOBS Mr. President, must have drowned it out! lol

BTW - Almost every economist out there agrees that the proposed cuts would increase unemployment and possibly prevent the recovery!

What these Teapublican clowns are doing is comprable to using a chain saw as a letter opener!

I think you missed a lot. People who have common sense and are intelligent enough to understand finance all know that of course this is going to cost jobs or salary reductions.

Are you just stupid to not understand that you CANNOT KEEP SPENDING MONEY YOU DON'T HAVE.

When you take that credit card away that the government has racked up to trillions, there is going to be pain felt by everyone and everyone has to accept that they are going to have to sacrifice to get back to the NORM...which is something we havent been at for decades.

The government with it's out of control spending created jobs and salaries that just shouldn't be in existence. Anyone can make things look great when they just spend beyond their means. I can give a poor person a CC with a million dollar limit and they will look like a rich person but in the end, you know that they are poor and can't afford it. That's the exact same thing going on with our government. For the last 50+ years it's borrowed borrowed borrowed. Watch this and understand.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/debt-binge-ending-middle-class-clobbered-20110405-094510-405.html

Lastly, those economists you talk about are just as stupid and dense as the ones that missed the recession. Of course its going to hamper the recovery. You CANNOT have a recovery when you havent even tackled the underlying cause which is SPENDING BEYOND YOUR MEANS.

What i love the most is all the do is cry and haven't offered ONE solution to solve the massive debt and deficits that have been created since 2007...

They never will...because they don't know how to. It's hilarious because my company works in politics and a few of our democratic clients broke off and formed a new company and their first request when we did some work for them was 'can you give us a dirt cheap rate...this project is for us so the money is coming out of our own pockets instead of our clients/government'

None of our Republican candidates have ever said anything of the sort. They understand there are costs to doing business.

Feisty, I agree. Additionally, when Boener says the Dems have proposed "smoke and mirrors" the journalists should ask what EXACTLY he means! They should press him for a concrete example of "smoke and mirrors." I submit that it is HE who uses those tricks to confuse the public. It is up to the media to "smoke them out!"

pjam, I know, what a joke.

Let's see 37% blame the Republicans, but only 2% blame Democratic Senators from New York, only 1% blames Democratic Senators from Missouri, only 2% blames Democratic Senators from Ohio...as you can see the Republicans outpace any other group by far!

Bev, you know the term tea baggers is actually a derogatory word toward gay men right?? Why such a bigot?

I see the MSNBC libs are back (you went a little awol on Libya) with their regular big govt. blatherings.

Rick,

Do you actually believe that MSM is conservative or were you being sarcastic? All polling of MSM employees (and cable) shows the opposite (close to 90% liberal) to be true.

Feisty states: "BTW - Almost every economist out there agrees that the proposed cuts would increase unemployment and possibly prevent the recovery"

Thats just silly, unverified, overstated, cackling. Like most of your musings.

P.S. Bolding does'nt make your sillyness any more true.

"YES, the Democrats had control of the House & Senate and the Republican threatened to filibuster (what else is new lol) ANY budget that came before them UNTIL they got their TAX BREAKS for the corporate FAT CATS!" - Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

The Dems clearly stated last spring that they had no plan to pass a budget at all. Oh, at first they blamed not even proposing a budget on waiting for the debt commission (which they were going to ignore anyway), an excuse that everybody knew was a sham. Once they realized that everybody knew they were lying, they moved to their old favorite (and obviously yours too) that the Republican party was the "party of 'no'" and they wouldn't be able to get it past them. There is one giant hole in this lie though. All the Democrats needed was to pick up one seat in the Senate to make a FILIBUSTER OBSOLETE! They easily had enough House seats to pass it and then the bill could just be sitting there for the Senate to act on as soon as they took control of that 60th seat on January 15th. The Dems didn't have a crystal ball. In April, they didn't know the Republicans were going to control the House and pick up seats in the Senate. For all they knew, they would be in full control again in January 2011. Yet they still took absolutely no action. So you can quit with that ridiculous, monotonous, and mindless drone of an excuse.

Jody, did you miss the almost 1 MILLION private sector jobs added since Dec 1?

I'm hoping that President Obama goes on Prime Time TV, perhaps tomorrow evening and makes his case and puts the blame on the true villains here. We all know it’s the Republicans and the crazy Tea Baggers that are causing all of the problems.

Ron Indiana

I'll call it: JoAnne Kloppenburg wins by 233 votes. All votes have been counted.

A footnote: Representative Paul Ryan (R), district went 60% for Kloppenburg. Me thinks he better but that delusional ten year budget in the trash and go back to Wisconsin and start talking to real people...voters.

Good thing I got some cash this morning. Thank you for the news, Ron.

Funny you should mention Ryan -- I've been watching the demographic maps and talking that same thing up around the office this morning. Only my hope is that he stays distracted with his little budget plan and keeps his eyes off the prize. He's not presidential material, but either way, this could result in that district going blue in 2012. It hasn't been blue in my memory, but that's what turning your back on auto workers will do for you.

Thats just silly, unverified, overstated, cackling. Like most of your musings.

P.S. Bolding does'nt make your sillyness any more true.

You could be right, however, the same can be said of you pulling random heresay out of your a@@! ;o)

JOb1, you mean Pelosi and Reid right?? You do realize this is LAST YEARS budget, which should have been passed last summer by Reid and Pelosi right?

Why do facts mean NOTHING to liberals? And before anyone say the republicans would have voted no, we will never find out since they didn't even put it up for a vote.

Pelosi has ONE job to do a year and she couldn't even do it! How sad she and her sheepal are!

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL Comment collapsed by the community

I have to disagree with you on this one Mark. If 'journalists' would do their JOB and ask some tough questions for a change, the public would see that the Democrats have done all of the compromising!

Perfect example was this morning when Michele Bachmann was on the Daily Rundown asserting that the Teapublicans have ALREADY compromised - WHY didn't Chuck or Savannah call her bluff and just ask WHEN & WHERE?

You're not doing America any favors by continuing to allow bold faced lies go unchallenged!

Why in the world was Feisty's comment collapsed? I saw not a vulgar word. Only a request to responsible journalists to ask pertinent questions. What has happened to First Read?

Chip D-2844144

Bev, you know the term tea baggers is actually a derogatory word toward gay men right?? Why such a bigot?

No, I didn't. I know it made the Oxford Dictionary. Then I heard it had something to do with sex. I see nothing wrong with sex.

Why are you calling me a bigot?

The democrats agreed to the $61 billion in cuts but apparently the Tea Party has now decided that isn't enough. It seems the GOP/TP has forgotten that Pres Obama gave them $40 billion in cuts before negotiations began and agreed to the additional cuts as well. But why face facts when the Tea Party intent from the beginning was to shut down government. Nothing will please this crowd, absolutely nothing.

Feisty, I am right!! And wrote sensibly.

I can however, make no sense of your comments, without verification of what you believe I made up. I know you made up your silly comments (your post confirms it), as you do with most of what post.

Jody, Iowa. Where do you come up with this drivel??? The Dems didn't agree to $61 billion in cuts. The bill that the Republican House passed and sent to the Senate had $61 billion in cuts, but the Dems wouldn't pass it. In fact they couldn't even pass their own very pared down version.

ROTFLMAO!!!

Nothing pisses off foaming at the mouth radicals like a bipartisan poll. Oh wait, I know, the Wall Street Journal and MSNBC are either a conspiracy of the left, or right.....You know, like Fox News and NPR, if they did a poll. :P

Some people just hate, hate, HATE, information that doesn't agree with their pointy headed, radicalized views.

What has happened to First Read?

Good to see you Judy! ;o)

The inmates have taken over the asylum! lol

this is a response to "Mike in SA":

Your talking point is false. The GOP has not budged an inch from their original position. The 100 billion dollar figure you are quoting was in the GOP contract to America (or whatever they called it) This was an agenda document, in no way binding.

HR1 which you keep espusing was passed with 60 billion in cuts. The senate proposal had 9 billion in cuts. The dems have comprimised from 9 billion up to 33+ billion. The GOP has not budged. That is not comprimise, that is thowing a friggin' tantrum.

I see the Democrats working in good faith to find cuts. I see the GOP screaming, hysterically may I add, that It's the Dems fault. What a joke!

If a shut down occurs I will squarely blame the republicans for these reasons: 1) The Dems HAVE negotiated in good faith, walking half the distance from each original proposal. 2) HR1 is riddles with "GOP Goodies" policy riders that have nothing to do with meaningful cuts to the budget.

Until the GOP negotiate, this will be their cross to bear.....

If the government shuts down it will be the only time the massive debt isn’t being added to.

The projected deficit included in Obama’s budget is expected to be in excess of 1.6 trillion and these clowns in congress are squabbling over cutting a paltry few billion here and there. They should be looking to cut 500 billion which would elicit howls and probably riots in the streets, but even so it would still mean adding over a trillion to the debt.

This is how screwed up things are. Third world, here we come.

Ted, Mid Michigan...it is utterly absurd for you to think that the Republicans coming down from 100 billion to 60 billion was not a compromise just because the 100 billion wasn't in anything binding. Using your own other-worldly "logic" then, the Dems have not compromised one inch because none of their proposals have been in anything binding. It was a proposal, that's all. One that failed miserably in fact.

Thanks for showing everybody how the Dems haven't come to the table with any real compromise though. Your "logic" was very enlightening.

Mike,

Nice try, but the GOP controls the house and never passed 100 billion in cuts. They passed 60. They did, all by themselves by the way. They had / Have the numbers to get the full 100 out of the house, they did not. Period. There starting position was 60; the Dems have met them more than half way, in good faith.

Thanks for showing everyone that the GOP didn't have the gumption to follow their own pledge, and please do play again.

Ted, Mid Michigan...tell me, what have the Democrats passed??? Again, using your own "logic" the Dems haven't compromised anything because they haven't passed anything. I didn't set that standard, you did.

I have to disagree with you on this on Feisty, if "Democrats" in the 111th Congress had done their JOB and drafted, voted, and passed a budget none of this would be necessary. The 112th Congress could be focusing on the people's business. You must have had a minor "Moonbat moment" there.

I'll give you that point. (I really do try to be honest with myself)

The Dems haven't passed any budget. But to say they haven't comprimised is BS. pure political, finger pointing BS.

My point, again, is that the dems have negotiated away alot in the last 6 weeks. The GOP has not moved; digging their feet in deeper and raising the volume of their off-base accusations.

FYI: I truly beleive we need substantial cuts to the budget. I think the Dems need to get in front of this budget issue instead of constantly playing defense. Where I diverge from your thinking is the timing of these large cuts. I really feel that the economy is improving. I know that there are still an unacceptable number of unemployed, but things really seem to be gaining steam. We should look at eliminating redundancies, getting rid of those stupid tax breaks that Obama signed on to, and other items that will not negatively impact our budding recovery at this time. I beleive this recovery is more important to the future than the deficit at this moment. When we've gotten back on solid footing, let's then move on to the debt issue.

Is my approach the right one? I don't know, I'm not an economist. This is howeever, the approach my gut tells me is right.....for whatever that's worth.

Again, the Republicans gave up $39 billion in their first step and in 6 weeks the Dems haven't come close to matching that. It's not the Republicans fault that the Dems have dragged their feet for 6 weeks or that the Republicans gave up more in their first 2 weeks than the Dems have been willing to give up since.

As for "...those stupid tax breaks that Obama signed on to...", take a look at when it became obvious that the Republicans were going to make major gains in Congress and Obama would likely have to extend those cuts (early October). Now take a look at when the private sector started hiring en mass (early October). The correlation is hard to miss.

Again, the Republican's OWN THE HOUSE. IF they wanted 100 billion they could've EASILY PASSED IT. They did not. Period. Their starting position was 60 billion. Senator Reid introduced legislation reducing by 9 billion (though he never brought that up for a vote, I get, I get it.....) The Dems have moved from 9 tp 30 the GOP has not moved from their starting positions. If they wanted 100 billion dollar cut, they damn well should have passed it while they have the numbers. THEY DIDN'T DO IT!

I'm ready to put this argument to bed. Please research Obama's 2011 budget proposal (Which never came up for a vote, obviously) It actually increased spending by .09 Trillion dollars. So, now we've actually negotiated from a spending increase of 90 billion dollars to a cut of 30. That's a 120 billion dollar swing! Spin that to not negotiating. For your assistance, I've included a link to the budget proposal:

Sorry about all the yelling, but your argument is unreasonable.

And to the stupid tax cuts. The tax rate has been unchanged for 10 years. A period of time resulting in the worst job creation numbers since HOOVER. Empty correlation from a vapid argument.

My link wont stay in the post. Google "Obama Budget proposal 2011" There's a NYT interactive peice a few links down. that's where I got my numbers....

What's unreasonable is not admitting that the $39 billion is what the Republicans have already compromised just because they compromised it before passing a bill in the House. That's absolutely unreasonable.

The likelihood of creating jobs when there is full or close to full employment (like during the Bush years) is about zero. Periods where unemployment is at or near the floor never see big job creation numbers. Based on your thinking then, JFK had terrible economic policies since he is near the bottom too, Eisenhauer too when we had that wonderful 1950s manufacturing economy libs like to pine about. It also doesn't help that like every Democratic president except one (Kennedy) dating back to before Hoover, Clinton left office immediately prior to an economic downturn, leaving Bush (and other Republicans) to hold the bag on the lost jobs.

Ultimately yours is a ridiculous argument. This from Politifact fact check on this very topic:

"Statistics about employment growth over presidential terms are dominated by the timing of the business cycle, including Federal Reserve policy, and have no apparent connection to economic policies attributed to the White House, as opposed to Congress," said Alan Reynolds, a senior fellow at the libertarian Cato Institute. One example: Clinton had the good fortune to enter office when the economy had just undergone a recession. This relatively low starting point made it easier for him to rack up big gains over eight years. The converse is true for George W. Bush: He took office right as the tech bubble was bursting, meaning that any jobs he added to the nation's total amounted to digging the country out of a jobs hole.

BTW...if you still want to stick with your argument, to date, Obama has the worst job creation numbers.

The government needs to start running like responsible households do. If you don't have the money, you don't borrow it pay or go bankrupt another day.

Fully 1/3 all of the debt today has been the cause of people in congress, dems, borrowing and spending what it doesn't have over the last 3 to 4 years. The dems want compromise? For what? More spending of borrowed money.

I think the government shutting down for a month or 2 would be better than compromising for never ending record deficits that the dems have created.

The current debt for every man, woman, child and those inbetween, is nearly $46,000. Why? because those who work are being screwed over to pay for those who don't, won't, didn't or never will work.

Too bad there are so many leftist lawyers in government and so few accountants.

The problem with socialism is that you soon run out of other peoples money.

Blame the corporations and tax the crap out of them so they leave the country and provide no more jobs. Blame the wealthy because they have the nuts to risk fortunes to make more money while providing jobs. Encourage mass illegal immigration to lower wages while sucking up welfare for their anchor babies. Redistribute what wealth is left to those who don't deserve it, or earn it. Make sure no one who amkes a living wage pays taxes and make sure they all get tax credits so they can buy something made in China.

That is the compromise the left wants. Give it to them so the country sinks to 3rd world status and get it over with. Ya, that's the ticket.

How do you figure Wet Willy? Money is still going to be spent, to keep the post office going, Social Security will still be paid. We will still have law enforcement and emergency services. The flip side is tax return checks will not be processed. Federal Museums will close, as will the national zoo. Nor will the expenses be over with the restart of Government. It will cost over a billion dollars to get the government running again.

Hmmm...

After sorting through the data...

Total blaming President Obama and Congressional Democrats: 42%

Total blaming Congressional Republicans: 37%

Interesting that blame for Democrats was split evenly between President Obama and Congressional Democrats.

Both side deserve blame. Don't forget that the Dems controlled both houses of Congress and the White House yet failed to pass a budget on time. If they had done their job in September 2010, we would not be in this ridiculous Tea Party-led situation in April 2011. There is plenty of blame and shame to go around regardless of party affiliation.

Jim in Houston-1509351

Beverly in Chicago

The "art of compromise" huh? Like how the dems artfully compromised when they were in control of the house, senate, and White House? Wasn't it Obama who, in response to GOP ideas said:

"Elections have consequences, and I won."

-Barack Obama

====================================================

Yes, he did. But, he has compromised too much for my taste; especially tax cuts for the rich. I'm not thrilled about 32 billion which is on the backs of working people and the poor. So you have no Argument. Your side has not compromised because somehow you still think you have a mandate. At lest the Weeper -in - the House wanted too but can't because T-baggers and Cantor are dragging Boehner by the ears. See you can't have it both ways.

Face it, only losers want to compromise.

Since you side is losing, I suggest you re-think your possibilities.

this is a response to "Mike in SA":

Your talking point is false. The GOP has not budged an inch from their original position. The 100 billion dollar figure you are quoting was in the GOP contract to America (or whatever they called it) This was an agenda document, in no way binding.

HR1 which you keep espusing was passed with 60 billion in cuts. The senate proposal had 9 billion in cuts. The dems have comprimised from 9 billion up to 33+ billion. The GOP has not budged. That is not comprimise, that is thowing a friggin' tantrum.

I see the Democrats working in good faith to find cuts. I see the GOP screaming, hysterically may I add, that It's the Dems fault. What a joke!

If a shut down occurs I will squarely blame the republicans for these reasons: 1) The Dems HAVE negotiated in good faith, walking half the distance from each original proposal. 2) HR1 is riddles with "GOP Goodies" policy riders that have nothing to do with meaningful cuts to the budget.

Until the GOP negotiate, this will be their cross to bear.....

Love how MSN has got everyone all riled up, when the shutdown won't even happen. There playing all of you big time, and your just running with the bait, foaming at the mouth. America, ain't it great?

What I don't think most people realize is that by cutting government you are cutting American jobs. Unfortunately when a person is a government employee that cannot take their job skills and be outsourced to another country, thus causing the unemployment rate to go even higher in America. Most federal workers perform a service to the country that cannot be performed without them. Yes, there are some federal workers who draw paycheck, but most work hard for their paycheck, and have already been told that they will not receive a raise in pay for at least two years, but their health care and other benefits will continue to increase. If Congress really wants to cut the government, then why not start with their own house first. Why don't they take a fourlough or work for free a few days, because if you add up what they actually earn for no more work than they actually show up for, they are WAY OVERPAID, not to mention their bonuses when leaving their cushy jobs. Free Health care for life for them and their silicone spouses, full pay for life, with pay for their young as I previously said silicone spouses, all the free trips they want to take on taxpayer dollars, and once they leave, they can write a book about what a crook they were and get paid for that too, not to mention become a member of numerous boards for insurance companies that paid to keep them in office while they were supposed to be serving the American people. To bad, the American public can't vote on any of their raises or benefits. If we could, I don't think they would have such a sweetheart deal and maybe we would get people who actually want to work for the people and not the few choice companies that can line their pockets.

Good post, good point, JCB. Don't you just love how the media makes this all about politics....like it's all just a big game? They wear the same narrow blinders as the beltway politicians.

There are lots of people out in the real world who expect the government we pay for to work, the people we elect to do their jobs. It's disgusting how the news-tainment industry just treats it like team sport.

tell me would we be even talking about this if democrats who had control of both houses would have passed a budget last year which they didn't due to the election wouldn't show us what they really had in mind for tax increases so tell me who is shutting down the government I will tell you DEMOCRATS who care more about power than the country

I feel that it important for us to remember that when, for instance an agreement being negotiated between our railroads and their employees comes to an impasse, it is then sent to a third party arbitration. Or in political climates favorable to the carrier, a "Presidential Emergency Board" effectively making it illegal for unions and union agreement employees to strike, as a shut-down of the railroads would have a devastating economic impact on the country.

Perhaps the congress should be held to this same standard when bickering over the National Budget. If third party arbitration is unsuccessful, there should be a Presidential Emergency Board to step in and avert the financial chaos that a federal shut down would wreak on our fragile economy.

Abby, you need to re-take Civics 101. While yes there SHOULD be some cuts in goverment jobs, those are in the MULTIPLE areas of overlap that are a proven waste of tax dollars. But the main spending cuts MUST come out of the social entitlement programs. That is the largest part of our budget, not defense as some libs lie about. Our country has become a nation of mooches that expect the government to pay for everything and take care of them. This is plain wrong!! Government doesn't make money, it takes it from hard working people like me and gives it to alot of lazy welfare people who CHOOSE not to work cause we "owe" them a free ride. I think not! and guess what?! The number of people paying INTO the system is steadily declining. Most are taking out!! We simply cannot maintain that kind of waste and stupidity. I realize that some cuts will make it harder on older citizens in the future but who ever said we owed people a free ride in their old age. Whatever happened to them saving for retirement instead of depending on others?? Like I said, liberal mooches.

all this poll shows is that Americans have short memories

MR AUTO & OKLAHOMAMOM-- don't bring facts into a discussion on here people might be offended. LOL

The demos have been in control of the senate even before the market crashed but for some reason everyone doesn't remember that either. they only listen to the web of lies the president and the media like to spin. I think both parties are out of control though. All they are is lobbyist with more money and power.

the only reason we hear more from the gop side is becauase they own the press and tv stations...money is pouring in for them constantly.how much money is enough?

I have to disagree with you on this one Mark. If 'journalists' would do their JOB and ask some tough questions for a change, the public would see that the Democrats have done all of the compromising!

Perfect example was this morning when Michele Bachmann was on the Daily Rundown asserting that the Teapublicans have ALREADY compromised - WHY didn't Chuck or Savannah call her bluff and just ask WHEN & WHERE?

You're not doing America any favors by continuing to allow bold faced lies go unchallenged!

Beverly in Chicago

"Since you side is losing, I suggest you re-think your possibilities."

Really? You do realize that this is 2011, right? Perhaps you were too busy blogging here, but we have had an election since then. If anyone is losing/lost support, its the POTUS and the dem agenda. Now... if this were say, 2008, you'd have a very valid point. Don't worry... I'll summarize the RRepublican "loss" for you. After approx 82.5 million people voted...

The Republicans gained a net:

63 seats in the house
6 seats in the senate
680 seats in state legislative houses
29 of 50 state governorships

I like your enthusiasm and desire to blindly support your party despite a little thing I like to call reality, but I guess we all have to say whatever helps us sleep at night, huh? ROFL!!!!

Feisty...

To steal from my other post on a different thread....

Plans to solve the short term budget sent by the GOP house to the Dem senate...2

Plans to solve the short term budget sent by the Dem senate to the house...0

Plans by the GOP to solve the long term debt....1

Plans by the Dem to solve the long term debt....0

Not hard to see who is at least trying to solve debt problems and who doesn't seem to care about them. Oh... And that is in the first 3 months of the 112th congress. How many of these plans have been proposed by the Dems in the last 6 years of controlling the congress? Again....zero.

I do not understand why Feisty Red Head's comment was collapsed by the community. It was accurate and neither inflammatory or noncontributory to the discussion.

She's absolutely correct, the 'journalists' are not doing the hard work anymore to expose reality to the masses.

Typical liberal response...

First, the shutdown is only NON-ESSENTIAL EMPLOYEES AND SERVICES!!!!

Second, Congress is ELECTED, I DO NOT want unelected, politically hand picked (by the President I assume?) people making the decisions that only Congress should make!

The Dems/liberals truth in this Political game they set up and are playing, as it was THEIR responsibility to pass THIS budget last OCTOBER 1, but, they chose to not do THEIR job, and play POLITICS...as they knew even MORE Dems would have lost elections if they had passed THEIR budget!

Why didn't the Democrats pass the budget, that we're talking about, last year when it was supposed to be passed? Why did they do this to the country? They could have saved us all a big headache but they didn't. From looking at things it appears that they didn't pass it because they wanted a government shutdown like Howard Dean said. They are trying to make political points at the expense of the American people. How could they do this? Especially in such hard economic times?

Mixed Bag: After sorting through the data...

Total blaming President Obama and Congressional Democrats: 42% Total blaming Congressional Republicans: 37% Interesting that blame for Democrats was split evenly between President Obama and Congressional Democrats.

Wrong! How do you conservatives/Republicans live with yourself after so blatantly misrepresenting the facts? You can try to make yourself feel better about it, but what you say is simply not true. We see what you are trying to do. We don't buy it.

Go back and read it again. Only 2% blame President Obama AND congressional Democrats.

Fielden--you are reading the facts and Mixed Bags comments wrong. I pulled this from the story.

while 20 percent say they would blame President Obama and another 20 percent would blame congressional Democrats.

So yes it was an equal disliking....So please do "Go back and read it again"

EMS Mike...

The media supports what is popular at the time. Like pro-Bush in 2002...like anti-Bush in 2006/2008...Obama in 2008...like anti-Obama in 2010...etc...etc. They care nothing about the truth...only what's popular at the time. It's almost comical how dems chastized the media from 2000-2006. Then praise it from 2008-2010 and now condem it in 2011. The republicans did the samething when thier party gained, lost and then gained power again. Journalist standards are dead and have been for awhile.

It very sad that a small ,selfserving group of people can exert such influence over over elected officials. Its almost as if they were created to promote an agenda directly opposite the presidents. Gee, do you think maybe this is the greatest fake grass roots movement ever invented. The simple truth is the republican parties sole goal is to assure president Obama does not get reelected.

Bigtmmy...

"The simple truth is the republican parties sole goal is to assure president Obama does not get reelected."

Very true...also very true...

The simple truth is the Democratic party's sole goal is to assure president Obama does get reelected.

It's the ONLY thing ANY of them dem or repub seem to care about. Each one offers fresh new rhetoric, yet NEITHER side has any action to back up 100% of what they claimed. It's all smoke, mirrors and half truths designed solely to keep the people divided so they can both maintain their base...plain and simple.

YOu got it big.. Republicans talk about balancing the budget but its all in the form of cuts to programs that benefit the middle classes. They fight like pitbulls when it comes to preserving tax breaks for the wealthiest and they have made no secret of it.. their primary goal is to defeat Obama and if that means spreading hate and lies about death panels and such and killing any chance of recovery.. well that is what they will do. They will tear down the house if that is what is takes for them to rule over the ruins!

We are talking about the 2011 budget usually budgets are passed the year prior.

As far as compromising, the Tea Party wants a Balanced Budget. That is thier goal. The Deficit last year was over 1 trillion $$. If compromising is 50-50 are the dems proposed budgets to cut the deficit by 50% for the rest of 2011?

C-1664563...

So... The dems do 100% of everything right and ONLY have your intrests in mind, right? Didn't think so... So that leads me to ask... Why don't you call them out and hold them to your same exacting standard?

Frankusa...

Everyone knows that balancing budgets is evil. Only hateful anti-union bigoted war mongers want balanced budgets...or something like that. LOL!!!

fielden:

Number of respondents in the poll blaming just President Obama: 20%

Number of respondents in the poll blaming just Congressional Democrats: 20%

Number of respondents in the poll blaming BOTH President Obama AND Congressional Democrats: 2%

20% + 20% + 2% = 42%.

No wonder you can't understand the implications of the numbers in the debt crisis.

And fielden...I'm a conservative.

As a voter, I'm currently unaffiliated.

Last time time (and ONLY time) I was registered with an affiliation to a political party, it was the Democratic Party...but that's for your information only.

It isn't the point of our discussion, is it, fielden?

I still can't believe so many of you grasp to these political parties that have completely betrayed the ideologies they claim to support. The Dems are playing political posturing over handling our nation's problems, the Repubs are selling out our futures to whomever is willing to pay them the most money and the Tea Partiers are lying, hate-filled interlopers who will say anything to further an agenda most of them don't even understand.

Is there any way we can get back to enacting our core ideologies through compromise or are we going to keep bickering and repeating the same mistakes that have driven this country down and teetering on the edge of the drain?

Sadly, I think not.

Son Prime,

The only 'hate filled interlopers' are the people like you who, at the drop of a hat, will listen to what some pseudo-talking head will say to win viewers on a biased news program. Do you know ANYTHING about the Tea Party? I doubt it from your hateful rhetoric.

Tea Party is racist? Claims made by Dems that were proven false (remember that representative who claimed he was the victim of racial slurs upon leaving the Capitol building one day? He admitted he lied about it a week later. Didn't hear about that, did you? No, wouldn't make YOUR news outlet).

Tea Party incites violence? Where? Oh wait, I know ... the Arizona shooting. Right. All the Dems jumped on that one claiming the Tea Party incited that violence. When it was PROVEN that the guy was actually a registered Democrat who had been angry with the government since BEFORE the Tea Party was formed, what did your media report? (Insert crickets chirping). That's right ... NOTHING.

Tea Party has no idea what's going on? Really? Just some of the most influential ECONOMIC minds agree and support the Tea Party's principles, which happen to be lower taxes for ALL, and less government waste.

Listen, everyone in this country has a choice. EVERYONE. You can choose to do business with big corporate giants or you can choose to buy from the local mom and pop business (yes, they still exist). Most of you want to cry foul about big corporate greed and all that, but you will still shop at Wal-Mart because it saves you money. You can complain all you want about entitlement programs begin cut, but odds are you don't pay any real taxes. 48% of the population pays ALL of the taxes in this country currently. That's not right.

When it comes to balancing a budget or offering a budget proposal, you can't keep spending more than you make. The bill is coming due and you either start cutting programs that will upset people or you lose all of the programs that will kill people.

Maybe you didn't know this, but your evil Republicans who are so set on saving money for their rich, corporate friends, are proposing to make the tax cuts permanent, BUT that in doing so, they will close ALL corporate loopholes that those 'rich' companies have used for years (yes, thanks to the Dems) to save billions of dollars on taxes.

So who's the hateful one here? Looks like it's you.

JThomas, You are right on the money.

First off, for all you people who are blaming low income and people living in poverty for our countries financial ills, especially Oklahoma Mom, you need to get some facts. Starting with this one (& I am going to shout it so maybe those that need to hear this will get it) EVEN IF SOMEONE RECEIVES TEMPORARY ASSISTANCE TO NEEDY FAMILIES (TANF, FORMERLY KNOWN AS WELFARE) THEY CAN ONLY RECEIVE FOR A MAXIMUM OF 5 YEARS TOTAL. IT IS NOT A LIFELONG OR EVEN LENGTHY BENEFIT UNLESS YOU ARE ILL OR DISABLED AND UNABLE TO WORK. (CERTIFIED BY DOCTORS). UNLESS SO CERTIFIED- YOU MUST WORK AT LEAST 36 HOURS A WEEK OR BE INVOLVED IN SCHOOL OR TRAINING. SOME STATES WILL CREATE "MAKE WORK", BUT YOU WILL BE WORKING, TRAINING OR IN SCHOOL (IF YOUR SCHOOL/TRAINING IS APPROVED) DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU LIVE, A MOM WITH TWO KIDS CAN RECEIVE AS LITTLE AS $168.00 A MONTH IN CASH ASSISTANCE. FOR SOME OF THE VERY WEALTHY, THAT IS PROBABLY A WEEKS WORTH OF TAX CUTS.

No one is getting rich or just being lazy on TANF. It isn't happening. And for all those people who keep throwing that foolish argument up that people just don't want to work, that they are just lazy; it is a bogus argument. This is not the welfare of old. This is TANF. If you are on TANF and go off and then find yourself needing help again, the time you already had on it counts towards your 5 years. So if you were on for 3 years, you would only get 2 more years of possible assistance. This is not a picnic and people only go on it out of necessity. You fill out more paperwork, provide more verifications and have every facet of your life examined. It is harder to get TANF than it is a mortgage and it takes more paperwork. (One state I know had a 17 page application.) Most of the assistance programs are to supplement wages of the working poor. Lousy wages that have not kept up with the cost of living make these programs necessary for people to just get by. They are not living "high on the hog" or "on easy street". This is, even with any public assistance, a hand to mouth existence. Perhaps if everyone thought it was disgraceful that CEO's make millions of dollars while the company pays people who work back breaking full time work are lucky to get minimum wage then we wouldn't need as many assistance programs. Perhaps if we took away corporate tax breaks and fined companies for every employee that has to get assistance from the government- maybe wages could keep up with the cost of living. Just maybe.

Cutting the very programs that help people to keep a roof over their head, keep lights and heat, help obtain badly needed medical care or keep the children in day care or head start while they work will do nothing to strength the economy. It will keep some people from working because they have no way to have their kids cared for and will result in even more homeless parents and children. Right now in this country- due to the economic downturn- 1 in 10 children are homeless. 1 in 10 folks. In the United States of America. Out of every ten children, one of them will have no place to call home tonight. I find that to be appalling. Especially since most of the time at least one parent is working but they don't make enough to pay rent. The availability of shelters for families is abysmal so they have no place to stay, except hopefully a car.

Why does all the cuts to spending have to be on the backs of the poor, elderly and disabled. Farm subsidies seem to have become the new "third rail" of politics, but the fact remains that many of the subsidies go to farms owned by corporations. And a whole bunch of the Republican freshmen in Congress are not only millionaires but also have received farm subsidies. Check that out. These people don't want to cut what THEY get. Things have to change, make subsidies based on need to the privately owned farms that are not making millions of dollars. Stop subsidizing corn for ethanol. Few people, comparatively speaking, use ethanol. Tax farmers that sell corn for ethanol at a higher rate than those who sell it for food. Bet more farmers would do food corn. Take away the tax cuts for the very wealthy. They do not deserve it. They are not creating jobs or they would have already done it. They have been getting those cuts for what- at least nine years now. Where are the jobs? If that argument held water we would have never had a financial meltdown. All of that money they get to keep could have kept jobs and not had them go away. Instead, the gap between them and the rest of us has grown more than it has ever been before. We are poorer and they are richer. Why do they need tax cuts to get richer if they aren't spending it on America? And they are not.

The CBO said yesterday that the plan put forth by the Republicans, with all the cuts to all the programs that help people and even Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, the additional tax cuts they want to give to the richest will create a deficit as bad or worse than the one we have now. Their plan to give even more tax cuts to those who don't need it will put this country in even worse shape and will do nothing to help create jobs- will actually kill jobs and will make it even harder to keep up the nations very important and long neglected infrastructure.(How many more bridges should collapse before we pay attention?)

I love how the White House is using sorry a$$ scare tactics like the one below. If our boys and girls overseas and home side don’t get paid...Obama for starters won’t get my vote nor any of my family members vote. Not that I voted for him to begain with. I hope other Americans feel the same way for our kids overseas and here.

The White House warns of a temporary cutoff in pay for troops in war zones if the budget impasse brings a partial government shutdown.

Montana---you must live under a rock. you know as well as everyone else on here that isn’t what happens. if it does than how do you have third generation welfare recipients? Just like unemployment gets extended so does welfare in it varies from state to state. Hell one of my sisters got welfare till her kids were like 15 and yes she had it from day one. obviously I don’t talk to her and her illegal husband, we don’t quite get along due to the fact that i have a job, I pay my taxes, my husband is legal, and my kids are taken care of. I have worked two jobs before just so I wouldn’t have to ask for assistance. Welfare shouldn’t be the first resort it should be the last. as in you have two jobs and one on the weekend and you still can’t get by. I use to work 7 days a week but that what I had to do to stay on top while my husband was in the military.

Plus just like rich people find ways to get out of taxes poor people find a ways to stay on welfare.

speaking of FRESHMEN--what do you call Obama--kindergartener

James-546195-1049965

Oh Fiesty, are you dumb enough to not realize that the democrats had control of both the house and senate and failed to get a budget done for over 2 years...they kicked the can down the road like they always do.

The blame lies with the democrats...you are blind and oblivious to think it lies anywhere else.

Joe in Albany Comment collapsed by the community

The ONLY ones to blame for a govt shutdown are the then-majority Dems led by Pelosi and Reid who REFUSED to even allow a budget to be voted on. Republican's are only cleaning up the mess they inherited from the Dems.

Just can't help myself. I thought you couldn't blame Bush for Obama having to clean up the mess he made..........Typical Republican spew....do as I say, not as I do....LOL

@ getalifeamerica - Horse feathers. Your sister had to have extenuating circumstances to be able to stay on public assistance beyond the 5 year maximum. Having been heavily involved in welfare reform and having a part in setting some of the procedures in one state to fit into the new standards, I am very familiar with how TANF operates. If your sister stayed on TANF, since reform took place, than she had to have had a medical or physical problem that kept her from working a job, unless she had a child was mentally or physically disabled that required her care, which can be an extenuating circumstance. Otherwise, the federal standards give very little room for flexibility.

As far as working more than one job, many of the working poor do that. And then people blame them for their children getting in trouble or their kids are latchkey kids and don't get enough parental supervision. I have been in the trenches for far too long and I have seen the results of poverty and how many people work hard to just survive. It isn't about living- it is just survival.

As far as President Obama, considering his education, which takes about 7 years, his years as a professor in a law school, his 8 years as a state senator and two years as a US Senator- not to mention his job for a business in New York and his work as an Organizer and his writing two best seller books, he had a great deal of experience. Oh, and I don't want to forget his time spent as the editor of the Harvard Law Review. That was some very good experience too. And his time he spend on various boards and initiatives, especially for education for children. I was entirely comfortable with his resume when I read it. I'm aware of what it really means. I suppose for those who don't understand what all those accomplishments take; they might not appreciate his experience as it really is. I recall some of his law school classmates, conservatives, who spoke very highly of him and his abilities, which was why they elected him to be the president of the law review.

I didn't know Obama was still a congressman.

JThomas,

I post this now because I left and missed it Wednesday. I mentioned all three sides being dirty and you defend only your own side, which is exactly what I said about speaking only to further your own agenda.

I've seen Tea Party rallies and I make my assessment on what I've seen out of the base, not just the primary talking heads and dirt flung by the biased opposition. I don't back the Dems either, which is obviously what you think of me. I said the least about them in that statement but their hand in our country's collapse is as obvious and deeply seeded as the Repubs; and the Tea Party, in my opinion, offers nothing but more inane policies to crush our middle class and ruin our nation.

None of these parties back the average working american or the futures of our youth. They think of the here and now and only for their campaign contributors and favored lobbies. I tire of debating politics anymore, though, as people make it 99.99% BS and .01% constructive conversation because their party can do no wrong and anyone who doesn't step in line is obviously the one who is ill-informed.

Good day, sir.

She didn't finish we United We Stand, Divided We Fall?

Cool story, bro.

Next time just toss out a link to the program in question - as opposed to playing the biased "this one time, at band camp" game.

Dear so-called American,

I guess you think it's moral to shut down the government and delay the payroll for the troops, or college tuition help for kids, as opposed to eliminating billions in subsidies to the oil companies that are pushing towards $5 a galllon gas and making record profits. The budget is indeed a moral document. It tells us the relative values of the parties and quite honestly, your side does not come off well. By the way, what jobs are we going to train these people for? We have millions of skilled manufacturing workers whose jobs have been shipped to China. [Guess which side supports that with their tax policies.] Maybe instead of training them we can just get them passports so they can go over there and apply for their old jobs back... at 10% of their pay.

Visagi - Visit bloomberg tv to search the link. Their short televised interviews apparently aren't linked and only show up later that same day on a rerun. The only bloomberg link I found was that she was scheduled to be interviewed by bloomberg.

Visagi...

http://pktube.onepakistan.com/video/6sBlHdgVLoY/Rep-Barbara-Lee-Talks-About-How-GOP-Government-Shutdown-Would-Hurt-Neediest-Communities.html

After the first 2 minutes she really picks it up, If you don't like my paraphrasing, listen.

If the Tea party wants to tear down this government, let them get elected to both houses and the whitehouse first. one election isn't enough to change the whole direction of the country. But if you own all three, you can do what you want till the next set of elections. simple politics

Moral document? No wonder the democrats are so off base.

cal -usa - better recheck your facts on what happens during a shutdown, who gets paid and who doesn't. Obama has the say so to direct many of the available funds. So quit your fear mongering, most of what rep. lee said was going to happen was fear mongering also.

As for shipping jobs overseas why not look in the mirror. You wanted low cost electronics, toys and other consumer goods, bet you didn't miss a beat when you bought the "made overseas" label over "made in the USA". Where was your morality then? You also need to recheck your facts on exactly who agreed to send jobs overseas and why.

A budget is still just a budget. Morality has little to do on what gets funded if there is no cash to supply funding. Apparently you disagree with obama on "shared pain"

perhaps you have forgotten the old saying of "the poor will be with you always" it has been true ever since man developed societies thousands of years ago.

The Teathuglicans should be given the blame. A senior Republican Senator said that. Boehner would not have been re-elected if the Teathuglicans had not supported him.He has no leadership ability whatsoever. Rand Paul is his boss.If the Democrats will come out to vote like they probably will next election,we will kick that trash back to their trailer parks and bridges. So every Democrat that can vote get up,straighten up,brush your-self off and lets get ready to roll. Let no Rightwing teathuglican get in your way.

"Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." George Bush

eyetoldweso-

Hysterical! Love it. Everytime I see the clip of George Bush looking "special" I laugh out loud.

Not so funny is we are getting fooled again and again and again. The Republicans are so much better than Democrats at rolling the media.

Boehner and company would have us believe that the Democrats have not compromised one iota in this process when we know that they have. From $10 billion to $33 bliion is quite a compromise if you ask me.

And the Republicans. Well, Boehner says he'll let the Dems know when they have hit the magic #. We all know the Tea Party people are playing games . They don't even have a #.

Sad state of affairs. Where are the Reagan Republicans?

Kind of hard to reach a mile stone when the definition of a mile is ever changing.

The advertisers turned their back on him. They as well deserve a thank you.

I missed it. What's the news?

Is this the "Glenn Beck gravy train headed off the tracks" story?

Beck. So long, goodbye. Show going off this year.

And who will he blame? You? Me? Lawrence O'Donnell? Media Matters? Think Progress?

All Progressives? Liberals? Democrats?

Why Yes. The informed ones. This is who he will blame. And will blame us because - because - because - we don't read the Bible every 10 minutes. Maybe he oughta read the actual news. The REAL news. News of today, the 21st Century.

He's gonna be the New Engineer on Donald Trumps new show "All Aboard The Crazy Train"!

I guess FOX is tired of buying Chalk & Erasors for thier veiwers to Play along with Glenn Hour!

Pat;

Maybe you should read the Bible.

The news is full of murders, rapes, robberies, politics , etc.... yeah some 21st Century news.

I don't like Beck but when they cancel ODonnell and Maddow don't come whining it was the Conservatives fault.

Beck is being cancelled because HE is going to attempt a run at his own network not because of your beloved Mediamatters and thinkprogress.

And maybe he's going to be Trump's running mate.

I'll buy tickets for that ticket.

In The Middle,

Actually ITM most of what is in the Bible have proven to be out and out lies.

Why would I waste my time?

Pat that may be a little harsh. The bible is full of wonderful stories and fables and some not so wonderful delusions can be found in the new testament book of revelations.

4. Instructions for those who are wealthy

a. Put your hope in God, not in your money. (6:17)

b. Do good and share with others (6:18-19)

B. Guard the Word of God, which is the treasure that has been entrusted to you. (6:20-21)

Salt Grass:

4. Instructions for those who are wealthy

a. Put your hope in God, not in your money. (6:17)

b. Do good and share with others (6:18-19)

B. Guard the Word of God, which is the treasure that has been entrusted to you. (6:20-21)

And here I thought all it said under the stone was "Peace on Earth." This must be the updated edition, made necessary because the first edition didn't register the way it should have.

One tin soldier rides away.

I really think the collection of books can teach us all something even though I am not a man of the cloth and do not believe in a virgin birth. I read the entire collections of books by the time I was in 4th grade and I wish I had asorbed more of the lessons on human nature. It may not be all truth, but there are some vaulable lessons.

Anna Molly

So the people of the valley sent a message up the hill
asking for the buried treasure, tons of gold for which they'd kill.
Came an answer from the kingdom: "With our brothers we will share
all the secrets of our mountain, all the riches buried there."

Pat:

I won't go into religion on here but I will say, I know the book and was raised on it, I just haven't lived the way I should. That statement you just made will be for you to explain when the book is opened wide because it will be there just like all of the other blasphamy you have participated in.

I get it though, if it doesn't comply with the way Pat thinks, everything stated is an outright lie because you said it.

Salt Grass: That song always reminds me of what has happened in this country over the past 30 years or so, and especially right now:

Go ahead and hate your neighbor, go ahead and cheat a friend; Do it in the name of heaven, you can justify it in the end ....

Only recently it seems as if we've even dropped all pretense that this is somehow in the name of heaven.

I don't know if that makes it better ... or worse.

Another wonderful song

Heard of the thing called the Filibuster? Republicans threatened that at every turn...explains why we didn't have the budget back then. Nice try!

Both sides are to blame. If you can't see that, please stop voting.

Even if your point were valid, it wouldn't do a thing about the crunch Congress is in right now. Pointing fingers while the government shuts down is a perfect, direct 1-to-1 metaphor of Nero fiddling while Rome burns.

I don't care how many fingers get pointed right now - so long as Boehner either sits down and gets to work, or shuts up and gets out of the way.

Boehner is to blame for Pelosi, Reid and Obama failing to get the job done, right? CUT SPENDING, TRILLIONS and TRILLIONS of it!

There is now way Ryans buget will pass.

Pat, you're delusional. The Dems in the House didn't even propose a budget last year, much less pass one and send it to the Senate to be filibustered.

This is all on the Dems in the House last year and their leadership: Nancy Pelosi. Reid and Obama could have helped, but it wasn't actually their job to propose anything.

C. Smith, it is you who is out of touch.

The link will not post but you can use this: www.ombwatch.org/node/11580

Budgets were proposed by Obama, Reid AND Pelosi. None ever made it out of committee because of Republican stonewalling.

Sorry NY pat....the Dem's had COMPLETE and TOTAL CONTROL of the 2010 budget and could have passed anything. Unfortunately being the incompetents that they are they couldn't even agree on anything budget related amongst themselves even with their democrat majority.

You also tried to use the filibuster fear to explain away Dem's never passing or voting on anything budget related. That's like trying to claim foul when the balls never hit! If the majority party Dem's had voted and passed a budget the majority could have over ridden any veto or attempt at a filibuster.

It seems much has been overlooked when it comes to this notion of a gov't. shutdown. @justwantitover, the Dems did not have a veto proof Senate. In fact, it has been a very long time since either party had that. This is just the beginning. The Tea Partiers are crying for a shutdown, if the Dems don't agree to cuts on last year's budget, which is half over to begin with. This is why the Repubs couldn't get their $100 billion in cuts, as the fiscal year was already several months old by the time they even got into office. The thing every one seems to be overlooking is the fact that the Tea Partiers will also want to shutdown the gov't. if they don't get even more cuts for the 2012 budget, and that isn't to mention that they will want to shutdown the gov't. when the debt ceiling has to be raised. This is just the beginning, and since it is the TPers that are shouting 'cut it or shut it', it will be the Repubs that get the blame for the shut down, again. Poll or not, perception is everything in politics, and the TPers have been recorded on video saying that they want to shutdown the gov't. Trust in the fact that that will be played over and over again the closer we get to Nov. 2012 as well as the Govs. of several states that are trying to get rid of unions. It will be hard to put the blame on the Dems as there aren't going to be much in the way of soundbytes that show them wanting a gov't. shutdown, so the majority of America will not vote for Repubs come 2012, for just that reason. I guess if you don't learn your lessons from prior history, then history will repeat itself. Remember, Paul Ryan claimed his budget "wasn't a budget but a cause". Many will not understand that, but will understand "cut it or shut it". Regardless of which party you do or don't favor, you can't actually call that something to be proud of. Gov't. shutdowns COST money, rather than save money. Go back and look up how much the last shutdown cost, and remember the political ramifications that came afterward. When the majority of this country, are hard pressed to think for themselves, they will see these little video clips on TV and make their decisiions based on those. Sad, but true. In all seriousness, you can stand there and point fingers at who you think should be blamed for whatever aspect of this, but it will be hard to refute the "cut it or shut it" chantings, come election time.

Please do not continue to mis-represent the poll. Even if it makes you feel better.

Congress and the executive branch are separate entities. You cannot lump 20% blaming Democrats in Congress together with 20% blaming Obama and still represent the poll truthfully.

Go back and read the results again. There is a separate result for those blaming Obama AND the Democrats in Congress. 2%.

I love how people, and this poll, want to separate Obama from Democrats so they can take comfort in an irrelevant figure. The point is, of those in a position of power in the government who are registered and vote as Democrats, 42% of the people polled are pointing the finger at them.

So now the Republicans can sleep well at night because a whole 5% more of those polled are not pointing the finger at them. Right?

Besides, this story is just about the official government shutdown. The government has been shut down for years because representatives listen to lobbyists and companies that make big donations and not the people that voted them into their jobs.

Those calling themselves Liberals/progressives are just 22% of the population, 43% claim to be conservative.

Republicans always do ...

ff - Democrates? Are they related to Socrates? And you think Harry Reid is a "pip squick" (whatever that is)? You probably also believe Senator McConnell is a tough guy by comparison, huh? Any idea what Senator Reid did before he entered politics? Here's a hint - he could kick your rear end blindfolded with both hands tied behind his back with or without boxing gloves. I suggest you pay more attrention to substance and have some respect for both sides rather than spread the usual right wing nut hate spin spewed by faux noise and dittoheads. Then serious folks just might take you seriously.

Dear Educated Thinker,

Sometimes I think we're wasting our time using logic with these yahoos. These are the ones who thought Max Clelland, who lost almost all his limbs in Vietnam, was not a patriot and elected Saxby Chambliss, who managed to avoid military service. These are the ones who think Dick Cheney, who also dodged the draft is a great patriot, but John Kerry is not. In the words of Maxine, you can't fix stupid.

CAL USA - Agreed. W dodges service in Mississippi, Kerry fights in the incredibly dangerous war-torn Delta of Vietnam, and the so-called "patriots" defend W and attack (indeed- slander since it was all lies) Kerry. Typical! But although it is tempting to call them "stupid" and tempting to believe it's true, I would resist the name-calling or we stoop to their level. Let's take the high road, in the hopes it will LEAD true thinking Americans (not those that just spout the talking points, frankly from both sides) to where we need to go, not to the disaster the right-wing is engineering. Thanks for chiming in and recognizing their disgusting tactics.

Let's take the high road, in the hopes it will LEAD true thinking Americans (not those that just spout the talking points, frankly from both sides) to where we need to go, not to the disaster the right-wing is engineering. Thanks for chiming in and recognizing their disgusting tactics.

Bravo for this comment. Very clearly put -- both of your posts above, actually -- and for good reason, apparently. Educated indeed. Thinker indeed.

Thanks AM. But I'm nowhere near perfect and need to work hard to follow my own advice. I too get angry when I hear outright lies, distortions, slander, etc., and sometimes I let that anger get the better of me. I try and use both my education and my intellect to resist the temptation to respond emotionally, but am not always successful. It helps that when I am successful it is appreciated. Keep up the good fight! No less than the future of this country that I love so much (and that I served in the military and that my father and grandfather died for) is at stake!

But I'm nowhere near perfect and need to work hard to follow my own advice. I too get angry when I hear outright lies, distortions, slander, etc., and sometimes I let that anger get the better of me.

Me, too. But we're both introspective, in that we recognize the shortcoming, and want to overcome it. And that's a good thing. You may not be totally surprised to hear that I appreciate that even more than good analysis and rhetoric. Not everyone who is smart shares that quality.

Nice to meet you. You have, in a very real way, made my day.

Actually, I think we might just fix this problem by ourselves if we kept the government out of it. But I guess I've always had more faith in main street than DC.

AM - Nice to meet you too, and you too have made my day. I look forward to reading you more on FR and the vine.

Thinker and Molly, if you can stop stroking each other for a moment, this is not a football game or a hockey game. There are intelligent people on both sides of the aisle who have our country's interest at heart and are sincere in their philosophies and disagreements on how to solve the budget dilemma. To try to reduce it to an "us against them" mentality so we can all take sides just like at the football game is disingenuous and shortsighted at best and surely hightlights what the real problem is in America today. As long as we get on the "smack talk" bandwagon and keep the grade school playground rivalries going, we are not apt to get much respect from the representatives in D.C. We are simply showing them the mob mentality they must play to and they are responding as requested. So sad.

oftr - So are cries to shut down the government not a demonstration of an "us against them" mentality? Are not refusals to compromise a further example of an "us against them" mentality? Although I agree with your point about "smack talk" and opposition to acting like "grade school playground rivalries," I fail to understand the balance of your point. In my opinion, the vitriol, hate, refusal to debate respectfully and "smack talk," although undeniably exhibited by both sides, is far stronger and more vituperous from the far right, often by those that cloak themselves in the flag as if they have some corner on the market of love for country. The disgusting name-calling of our (yes I mean our) President (I'm not talking about attacks on his positions which although I disagree with I nevertheless consider fair game, I'm talking about the references to a "big eared monkey," "Barry," "that pole cat," "that thang in the White House," etc., all of which I have seen on these pages), the so-called birthers, the Swift Boat Liars, and the attacks on Senator Clelland mentioned by CAL USA above are but a few examples.

As a liberal (which I am quite proud to call myself), I have been called the most vile and disgusting things imaginable by people who know absolutely nothing about me, and been accused of being a traitor, disloyal to my country, and worse, even though both my father and grandfather gave their lives for this country and I volunteered for military duty during the 1970's when many of the people that have called me such names did not. I have been called a freeloader, welfare denizen and other names because I have open-minded, educated and "progressive" liberal views even though I have never received one penny of public assistance in my life, worked full time to pay for my own college and law school education, and then built a successful firm and employed many others over the years. Frankly, it disgusts me, and does absolutely nothing to persuade me of another's viewpoints. Actions determine one's loyalty to this country, not hate-filled rhetoric.

Educated Thinker, I don't know why Obama is so scared of a shut down. It ensured Bill Clinton a second term. I think in the long run a shut down will be the best thing to motivate independents towards voting democratic in 2012.

Wade - President Obama does not prefer a shutdown because, unlike the TPers and other right wing nuts, he is concerned more about what is best for this country than he is about partisan politics. I respect and commend him for this, as it is consistent with my view that not only is it the right thing to do, I think most Americans (at least those that truly care about this country) prefer a leader that puts country above partisan political bs. Unfortunately, the TPers and other right wingers, screaming ridiculous and uninformed drivel about the Constitution (even though most of them have never read it, much less studied SCOTUS opinions which interpret it or made any effort to become knowledgeable about Constitutional jurisprudence), and cloaked in American flags as if they have some corner on the market of love of country, have demonstrated the opposite because they care more about partisan politics than what is best for the country. Hence their cries to "Shut 'er down!"

What's kind of funny (and sad frankly) is when you ask them where they were when W and a Republican-controlled Congress ran up the huge deficits that have put us in this untenable position, they say things like they "weren't paying attention, but they are now." Well I say those of us who were paying attention, and were loudly denouncing tax cuts for the wealthy during two unfunded wars and the risks of Wall Street deregulation and lack of oversight, are far more credible and trustworthy than those that say we were fooled by our own party and then didn't pay attention, but trust us and our party to get it right now. Yeah, right! How many times must Americans be fooled before they say "shame on you."

I am not siding with the tea Party or the GOP in this Educated Thinker. Given a choice I would rather not see a government shutdown either. However I think the tea party is acting like vikings who when given what they want they demand more. It's time for a line to be drawn in the sand beyond which the democrats will not be pushed.

The democrats agreed to the 33 billion demanded by the GOP. The GOP the turns around and asks for more. It's time to give the Tea Party what they want and see how the rank and file GOP voters feel about the government shut down. I blame the Tea Party for the coming shutdown. Their refusal to compromise will cost them dearly in 2012.

It was said that the Tea Party Freshmen in the house do not care about reelection. Tea Party freshmen comprise about 85 members. 85 representatives who do not care out of 435 who do care. The career GOP reps will cave just like the GOP controlled house caved to Clinton's budget in 1994.

I would much rather see this be the time Obama and the democrats find their spine then when the vote on the debt limit increase is due. Clinton forced the GOP to dance to his tune when they controlled the house and senate. Now it's time for Obama to do the same thing.

Wade - I hear you, and, frankly, I agree with you. And it's not just about the TPers moving the goalposts. For example, the one-week extension offer has policy riders itself (e.g. - the prohibition of abortions in DC); if this were just about budget issues or the deficit, the deal would be done. To use the deficit as cover to extort other changes, well let's say I'm fine with just saying no.

I heard Rep. Ryan on NPR today. When asked about eliminating the tax cuts for the wealthy to help reduce the deficit, he said that was a small issue and eliminating them would not solve the problem. Huh? As I recall, the tax cuts for the upper 2% income earners (which, candidly, includes me) amounted to roughly $70 billion per year in lost revenue. So $70 biliion is no big deal but $33 billion or $61 bilion is a big deal? BS! The big deal is not the amount, but who pays it, and the policy riders they want to cram through using the budget as a smoke screen. They want to balance the budget on the backs of the lower and middle class yet continue the government welfare and largesse for large corporations and bilionnaires, and they want to impose their fundamentalist right wing Christian social views, opposition to health care reform and hatred of NPR under the guise of deficit reduction.

So I agree we should stand firm, because it is the right thing to do, not because the republicans will be politically harmed more thean the democrats from a government shutdown.

Frank,

That is probably the best thought of the day. Everyone to blame--But the 4%-they don't vote-Huh.

75% of Democrats wanted to blame Bush but he wasn't an option.

He should not have been an option in 2000.

Because it is easy to blame someone that is standing up to the government and asking them to fiscally responsible like we do at home.

I bet that you called American soldiers "baby killers" during Vietnam, even though they were ordered their by our Presidents.

Nope, just blame teabagger for highjacking our government and eliciting class warfare instead of passing last years budget. Which, I might add, was fillibusted by the Senate every time Harry Reid brought it to the Senate floor.

So, if the Democrats have a budget, and the majority, AND try to bring it to the floor for a vote; but the GOP prevent the budget from being passed using their 41 fillisbuster majority... whose fault is it the budget didn't passed? hmmmmmmmm.

No BigBear,

Because it's easy to blame someone who's standing up against virtually all economists who agree that the proposed Tea Party budget would increase unemployment, possible extend the recession, and have very negative long term impact on our education system and ability to have a successful economy in the future.

And it's easy to blame someone who's arguing over pennies in order to put in little social initiatives such as the elimination of Planned Parenthood's funding just to make the small brained Repubs who think that abortion and gay marriage are the only political issues that exist, happy. When Dems are ready to concede on virtually all fronts except for the social politics being connivingly brought into a debate about BUDGET, yeah I'd say it's easy to blame the party that refuses to do what bipartisan economists and committees are saying is the solution.

But yes, all these things are EXACTLY the same issue as Vietnam protestors. Give me a break.

Aidan,

Planned Parenthood--Why should taxpayers have to pay for the irresponsible acts of people who are sexually active? Taxpayers would be better served if we used the "implant" on everyone until they were 21 years old. I just wish there was a way to provide males with an "implant" that would keep them from getting others pregnant.

But more importantly--why don't social values matter? and why should taxpayers have to pay for those who don't have social values?

Big Bear I guess you are wishing to be a foster parent or looking to adopt an unwanted baby. I guess it would be more humane to dispose of that unwanted baby in a dumpster or at a trash dump. Here in Texas unwanted babies can be dropped off at a fire station, hospital or police station with no questions asked, but many still end up being killed or left on the street.

I blame the teabaggers too altho Boehner is running that party. He needs to stop being a whimp and vote for the good of the country. They dictated how much they wanted and they got it but now they want to decide "which" cuts.

Obama cowed down to them on the Bush Tax Cuts just so people could get their unemployment benefits at a lost of a lot of respect from his own party. Huge mistakes on his part IMO because again those big coperations got to slide thru on paying their share again.

This is the 2011 budget with only 6 months to go. Pass the danged thing, keep the government open and start working on the 2012 and grow up.

Salt,

Believe me, I know what happens in Texas. Have lived in every part of that state except the Panhandle. It is not that I don't care, but what do we have charities for, what do we have churches for? Is it really the federal taxpayers job to take care of unwanted children and pregnancies--isn't that why Roe v Wade was upheld in the supreme court. So that some of these things could be avoided, because goodness knows--lets don't make the kids be responsible or teach them to be responsible enough to protect themselves.

When does government intervention end? When they decide to come into the home and tell you that you can not have children anymore?

I'll take a real liberal approach here--

Why not offer all females in high school the opportunity to have an anti-pregnancy implant? I would even allow it to be paid for by the government. If we can't stop them from having sex through social values, at least lets keep them from bringing unwanted children into the world. And it has been a while since I researched the "implants", but say they last for 5 years, allow the surgery at 13 years old, and realistically, they would be 18 before it no longer works. Hey, that just got them a high school education for the most part, without having to take care of a child. Heck, even more liberal--allow them to have another implant at 18--and they can have the cost reimbursed after they get an associates degree or bachelors degree from a college. I am so liberal on this point, if they could give all teenage boys vasectomies--I would agree to that.

I blame the politicians! There aren't enough Tea Party folks to actually effect change of any sort of the rest of 'em would grow a set of tenders and do their jobs. The color of the stripes hardly matters when the primary function of our government is no longer running the country but instead getting reelected.

Why not offer all females in high school the opportunity to have an anti-pregnancy implant? I would even allow it to be paid for by the government. If we can't stop them from having sex through social values, at least lets keep them from bringing unwanted children into the world. And it has been a while since I researched the "implants", but say they last for 5 years, allow the surgery at 13 years old, and realistically, they would be 18 before it no longer works.

Hey Big bear - boy, you are definitely treading in dangerous territory.

Instead of paying for implants to prevent pregnancy, how about providing that same funding to make sure that your people get the education that they deserve? How about we spend the money on education with some stipends to get these trained individuals into a job or a career?

I think that your heart is in the right place, but your method(s) are not. I would rather pay for young people to be educated (even providing some funding for them to do internships here and overseas) before I would sign onto anyone 'implanting' anything in a young person's body.

Although you say that your plan is a 'liberal' one, I disagree. You are trying to legislate behaviour, and that is a very conservative mindset. People have a right to be idiots (we see that every day here on this blog), and I see no reason why we should stop them from doing so with legislation.

Besides - legislating behaviour NEVER works, anyway.

Pietro,

Hope things are well in your state--since the Buckeyes got a black eye from Kentucky--that neighbor to the south. (hoops)

One of the reasons that I want an implant for females and vasectomies for males in school is so that they stay in school and get that education. Having been in this field for almost 20 years, when young ladies get pregnant, most do not finish high school. Heck, I have an entire plan for this, because if you do the math, there are thousands of dollars worth of difference between a high school diploma, and not having one. Between an associates degree and a HS diploma and even a bachelors degree.

My whole motivation is that we keep them in school and educate them. Because what is going on today just doesn't seem to be working. They either don't want an education, they don't understand what value an education has (poor family life), or they would rather sit at home and play video games.

And I bet, would have to research, that more females drop out of college because they "fall in love" and unexpectedly start having children, and then never return to college. But that is just a hunch.

Sorry Pietro, if throwing money at the education problem really worked , it would have been solved long ago. It's all about culture , you see. Seventy percent of black babies are illegitimate. That's culture failure, my friend. Spend all the money you want on inner city schools and you will not produce graduates that can contribute to society. Proven many times over. That's culture failure. Every large city has their "projects" with boarded up windows and trash in the yard. Drug dealers on every corner. That's culture failure. Oh, if only funding could instill the values and ethics needed to make a productive citizen, what a wonderful fix. But what we have in America is culture failure and it will take more than one Black president to find the remedy.

Big Bear that is a reason to support planned parenthood. So we do not have to spend money on the other things. We know how well Just say no worked. It was so successful that we now have a border crises and Mexico is locked in a war against drug lords. The law of unintended consequences will take effect if the funding for planned parenthood is dissolved.

BigBear - You might be able to swing me towards the liberal side with your implant idea, but let's keep the V word out of the discussion.......... YIKES!!

Sorry Pietro, if throwing money at the education problem really worked , it would have been solved long ago. It's all about culture , you see. Seventy percent of black babies are illegitimate. That's culture failure, my friend.

onefortheroad - I don't necessarily disagree with your assessment. I don't agree that 70% of black babies are illegitmate, but there is a LOT of 'baby mama drama' in society as a whole these days, and many of those with that drama ain't Black.

As far as education goes, maybe I didn't convey my thoughts succinctly enough (it happens). When there are more OPPORTUNITIES available that REQUIRE education, you will see a drop in the behaviour that we are discussing. The KEY is that there are opportunities for these young people to work/strive toward, but with all of the 'cutting' and 'offshoring', where are those opportunities?

I do NOT agree that we need to 'implant' anything in young people, even if you think it is for their own good. Thatis NOT a 'liberal' mindset; it is a conservative one because it tries to 'force' a desired behaviour. Liberals would rather someone CHOOSE to do what is right than to have someone 'mandate' or 'force' it on them.

Planned Parenthood is a good place to start, but unfortunately, they have been targeted for HUGE budget cuts by the GOP and the Tea Partyers. If we cannot have a place for young people to go if they have sexual/pregnancy issues, how are you going to justify the cost for 'implants'?

One of the reasons that I want an implant for females and vasectomies for males in school is so that they stay in school and get that education. Having been in this field for almost 20 years, when young ladies get pregnant, most do not finish high school. Heck, I have an entire plan for this, because if you do the math, there are thousands of dollars worth of difference between a high school diploma, and not having one. Between an associates degree and a HS diploma and even a bachelors degree.

My whole motivation is that we keep them in school and educate them. Because what is going on today just doesn't seem to be working. They either don't want an education, they don't understand what value an education has (poor family life), or they would rather sit at home and play video games.

Big Bear - you cannot FORCE anyone to do anything they do not want or agree with, even if it is what YOU think is best for them. They (young people) have to find out for themselves, but what we CAN do is provide the opportunities that these young people can follow to be come successful.

Also, young people are VISUAL. If they admire someone, they will take an interest in what that person is all about (you know, role models). If we just talk a good game, and do not expose them or SHOW THEM the successful people and how they got successful, then what do you think they are going to do?

How many students have you had that wanted to be a Police Officer, or a Fireman, or a Doctor when they grow up? By exposing young people (through internships, mainly) what it takes to BECOME what they dream up, they are motivated.

I agree that having young people sit in a classroom all day listening to a teacher drone on and no about 'how things are in the world' is boring the snot out of them and it is NOT working, especially when there are so many distractions out there. Also, not everyone is going to go to University, so what options do you have for those that are good with their hands? What options do you have for those that are artsy?

I am sure that you see the worst of the worst as a teacher, Big Bear. I applaud your ability and tenacity for teaching. However, I think that maybe our teaching model should change. A more interactive approach MAY work for some of your students that are having a hard time focusing.

That does NOT mean we should abandon education and the funding for it.

Just think they're getting P-A-I-D for doing this? Want to really reduce costs? No pay, no benefits at all.

One of the benefits of the shutdown is that, at the very least, we won't be subjected to the nit-picking, bickering and self-service battling that has been going on for the last three years!

Congressional members have forgotten that they are all public servants. Americans are weary of reading about what all of US will be losing and that it's being done 'for our good.' Balance the budget, my foot!

you cannot FORCE anyone to do anything they do not want or agree with, even if it is what YOU think is best for them.

Unless of course you're talking about buying health insurance...

If all the GOP will do is off short term bills with cuts, then let the GOP have it's shutdown and deal with the wrath of the voters in 2012. I had hoped the GOP realized there was a point beyond which moderates and liberals will not be pushed. No the GOP has learned nothing from the last two election cycles. Liberals and moderates have had quite enough. It's time to change course away from the faulty math, and the draconian methods the GOP want to use to destroy the middle class.

I work hard too. Am I not entitled to a degree of comfort just because I am poor? Must I and others like me make all the sacrifices. I don't want read about the sacrifices being imposed on the rich because they pay more in taxes then I do. The sacrifices imposed on the wealthy will not affect their creature comforts. I on the other hand can have all the comfortable elements of my life wiped out by the destruction of the middle class. Why are those who can least afford the cuts being being asked the sacrifice their dearest blood.

By rights no one in congress who supports the budget which will not pass the senate in it's current form deserves a dime in salary. But they will get it.

low turnout as in democrats sitting at home because thye felt conned by the great campaigner in chief.

"You can't campaign bragging about how you're gonna shut the government down"

WTF? You mean cutting spending?

Probably.

It was obama that was willing to give the rich tax breaks - he signed the extension. they are now the obama tax cuts.

Just more proof we don't need either party anymore.

Rob, be at least a little objective. Republicans stopped all legislation, even including an arms treaty and exteneded unemployment benefits, until he agreed to sign.

It's a republican tax cut, the second time in US history that taxes were cut during a time of war (the first was Bush), and budget deficits to boot.

Why don't you finish that sentence rob? "because the republicans held the unemployed hostage to get them."

Roger,

I want to know exactly how the tax extensions took away from the middle class? Please enlighten us.

Did the middle class taxes go up 5%--like most brackets would have if there were not extended?

Are 47% more workers paying their income taxes? I don't think so.

Since the passage of the Obama tax extensions--has unemployment gone down, even our President calling it good news?

So please tell us--how has the middle class really been affected by the tax extensions. I for one am getting to keep an extra 5% of my money--I think that helps.

By the way, had they expired--the top 2% would have had their taxes increase by a mere 3%--while the rest including the lowest tax bracket up 5%.

Big Bear: Outstanding comments on your post :-)

It is great to read some comments that make sense... versus "childish, immature nonsense!"

The only problem is "many of the Pre-school children who post here" can't understand 1st grade Math?

Like, what part of "America is over Fourteen TRILLION in RED DEBT" don't the Democrats understand?

I find it "beyond amazing" how many people don't understand how much of a GIANT FINANCIAL CRISIS the USA and the rest of the world are already in?

If these fools think a government shutdown is bad... let's see how they feel when the rest of the world DEMANDS that the USA "PAYS UP?"

peace :-)

@Bigbear: what I don't understand is why the Reps. in the Senate were insisting on the 3% cut extension, to the point of not allowing ANYTHING else to pass unless they got it.

Kind of reminds me of the girl in "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" who wanted the golden goose, and wanted it now and would not accept anything less than having everything she wants, NOW, NOW, NOW!

These TP people are spoiled brats who aged, but have not grown up. They want their way and they want it now. If they don't get their way, they are going to hold their breath (shut down the government) until mommy (the House) & daddy (the Senate) give them what they want.

I think the Republican party is going to find that when you lie down with mongrel dogs, you get fleas and you might just get bit.

Duh101,

What I can't understand is why the democrats are so insistent upon spending so much money on programs that we know don't work or aren't needed? (Cowboy Poetry Readings being federally funded)

Why not give a 3% cut--heck take away 95% of the deductions to income taxes and you more than double the money lost from a 3% tax cut. But then again, why do we as citizens of the United States need to give our government over 25% of our income each year, especially when they spend more than they take in? Do we need the top 5% to pay even more in taxes--don't they already pay more than the other 95% total. Especially since our tax code in 2009 allowed 47% not to pay taxes or get more of a refund back than what they deserved?

Maybe it is time for the populous to "hold their breath" and require our lawmakers to learn to balance a budget, and start using that scalpel to trim the "fat".

Duh, Varooka Salt getting a golden goose effected no one but Varooka Salt. The house and senate continuing to ignore the tax rate issue effected the economic recovery for our entire nation. I've stated several times that there will likely be a point where we need to address the tax rates but at the beginning of an already tenuous economic recovery is foolish. You can't take money out of people's hands and expect things to continue on a positive path any more than you can continually spend more than you take in and not expect a financial crisis!

Again - people don't get it, and don't even bother to. The shutdown in '95 cost the taxpayers money. Most workers sent home wound up getting back wages - even though they were forced to not do any work. Hundreds of millions of dollars spent to pay people for NOT working because Congress couldn't get its act together.

A government shutdown now will cost us dearly.

Now your worried about "Hundreds of millions of dollars spent to pay people for NOT working"?

Look at the unemployment rate and all of the extensions... and that is AFTER Obama spent $ 1 trillion to keep it below 8%.

If Dems were worried about the cost to taxpayers they would agree to the budget cuts in the first place.

You don't see the Politicians (Republican OR Democrat) ready to cut Corporate welfare and aid to countries that hate us. those two items alone would put us on a firm foundation. Next stop exporting our jobs and end the unemployment issue.

We get into our car made in Japan(68,000 killed by the JAPS on Okinawa alone) wearing jeans made in China (55,000 killed by the chinks in Korea) and a shirt made in Vietnam(58,000 name on a wall). Where are we going. Huh? Huh? We are going to sign up for our unemployment hand out. DAAAA! Adding 50,000 part time Minimum wage jobs at McDonald's is not the answer as that half breed Kenyan in the white house thinks. If its not made in the US by God don't buy it. talk about saving money. You wouldn't have a place to spend it as the dam politicians have shipped our meaningful honest jobs over seas as the Corporation sack in the profits and pay no USA taxes. Check it out on 60 minutes. Corporations with a foreign address and nothing else.

Lets blame Bush and Obama.

You better believe it! Curing cancer would really devastate Big Pharm's cancer "treatment" profits.

And yet, in reality, the Reps in the House are the only ones actually doing anything (visible, at least) to avoid one. They've passed a budget (something the Dems never did in 2010), along with numerous CRs specifically to AVOID a shutdown.

You're STILL wrong, C. Smith.

It is quite clear that the Republicans are for the wealthy, and their unwillingness to compromise is causing this disturbance. The cuts that the Republicans want to make would have huge negative effects on every one that I know and care about. But, then again, why should Republicans care? I am only a citizen, trying to get a college education right now because of all of the outsourcing of jobs that Michigan has done in the last 8 years. Republicans may have leadership skills, but so did Hitler. That skill is not enough, and I would gladly follow a reluctant person with good reason and logic than a great leader who is blind.

Has everyone forgotten that what we're dealing with now is the current budget which was supposed to have to been done in 2010...Guess who controlled both Houses of Congress back then and who had the power to pass anything they wanted...the Democrats. So, as we know, the Dems before the November election were afraid to make the hard choices needed for a budget so they did NOTHING and just kicked the ball to the new Congress after they were trounced in the midterm election. So to my Democratic friends lets be honest as to who in the first instance is responsible for not having a current budget---the Democrats. Now, both sides want to score points so both would now be responsible.

You have to remember who had control of everything for 10 years and took us to the brink of disaster. Despite the party of no it is getting back on track. I am sorry your arguments about last year or whenever fall on entirely deaf ears. Pay attention! Anyone thinking that this could be Obama's fault in the slightest has 1. not been paying attention 2, doesn't care and 3. has been on Mars or somewhere. There is no way in the world this is Obama's fault at all. YOu guys got what you wanted and more. PAY ATTENTION! Then you will know what is going on and who is making things up just to make points. That is why Congress is so not well thought of. They just don't get it. Of course it is the obstructionist pary of no's fault. And the teabaggers. Period.

Amen! to that.

Uhhhhhh, 20% blame to the prez and 20% to the demo'rats, by my calculations 20+20= 40% total.

Faulty logic, ski55. Try again.

fieldon - the faulty logic is yours, democratic ideology applies to obama just as well as a democrat congressman.

And 37 will blame the Tea party. If you are going to quote statistics, quote them all Ski55.

"While talks on Capitol Hill continue to try to avert the shutdown, 37 percent of Americans said they will blame Congressional Republicans if the negotiations fail, 20 percent say they will blame Congressional Democrats and 20 percent said they will blame President Obama. Another 17 percent will place the blame with all parties involved."

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/06/poll-blame-for-a-government-shutdown-will-get-spread-around/

My, my. 37 percent will blame congressional republicans.

Post what ever you like Ski55, this goes for you or any other conservative posting to news vine as well, I will fact check and expose any half truth that makes the GOP seem to smell like a rose.

Ok....If 20+20=40 for Dems.........then 100-40=60 for Repubs. ??????

James - R U stupid or what? Amazing!

No James either watches fox news or he is shilling for them.