A point of clarification: back pay is not a guarantee for non-essential employees. It must be approved by congress. Kinda sucks if you have bills due and can't pay them, or your credit card rates default to the max because you aren't getting paid, etc...

Did anyone else notice that members of Congress don't fall under any of the "essential" categories??

Maybe that's why they needed an exemption.

At 11:33 Kloppenburg leads by 311 votes. Republicans in Milwaukee area are now shouting voter fraud. Of course they are!

TA: While the president has LEFT TOWN during this "shutdown crisis.

Campaigning is always more important than governing. Priorities you know.

Well, it'd be pretty embarrassing if you hosted a $35K-per-head fundraising dinner and nobody came. Maybe that's why the Republicans haven't had one...

Ron - I'm sure the next step the repubs will take in their effort to assist the budget in WI is to sue everyone in sight - Of course you do know it was ACORN's fault that the Democrat won! :)

JD: A point of clarification: back pay is not a guarantee for non-essential employees. It must be approved by congress.

One thing about government. Whether it be Republican, Democrat, or Independent, they take care of their own. I don't think the "non-essential" workers will have any worries about getting their back pay.

Hey Ron - do you 1. think a re-count is inevitable; and 2. do you agree that one is warranted in this case?

At 11:33 Kloppenburg leads by 311 votes. Republicans in Milwaukee area are now shouting voter fraud. Of course they are!

Why Ron - Wasn't a certain someone crowing about the Democrats losing just an hour ago?

JoAnnaSmith1

Liberals are too funny. Your gal lost!! Losing by 585 votes or 58,000 votes, it's still a loss!!

Celebrate failure Libs, you're good at it.

• #5 - Wed Apr 6, 2011 9:54 AM CDT

It's no wonder she disappeared from that thread like her hair was on fire! lol

Do you prefer Brut or Extra Dry Champagne Ron?

Ron Indiana: At 11:33 Kloppenburg leads by 311 votes. Republicans in Milwaukee area are now shouting voter fraud. Of course they are!

Well, isn't that special! I guess all the budget problems in that state are now solved!

Well, isn't that special! I guess all the budget problems in that state are now solved!

I'm glad you brought that up JoAnna -

The solution the Republicans have is to have the union members pay their fair share into their pension and benefits plans. That closed the budget gap

No JoAnna, this is how Walker and his merry band of henchman are closing the 'budget gap':

On Monday, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported that Brian Deschane, 27, was hired in January for a $62,728-a-year management job in the state Department of Regulation and Licensing and then moved a month later to the Commerce Department to a job that paid $85,000 -- a 26% raise.

On Tuesday, Walker "directed his administration to move in another direction" after he "learned the details of this agency staffing decision," according to a statement from his office.

Deschane has no college degree and two convictions for drunk driving. His father is Jerry Deschane, the longtime lobbyist for the Wisconsin Builders Association. The trade group's political action committee was one of the top five donors to Walker's campaign, giving $29,000, and members of the group gave at least another $92,000

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/04/05/6413846-walker-orders-lobbyists-son-to-return-to-previous-job

Care to explain to us how a college dropout, 2 time convicted felon, ending up earning almost DOUBLE what the school teachers in WI make?

Yeah... SOME plan!

Take you time honey... we're still waiting & waiting & waiting...

JoAnnaSmith1

One fact our writer ignored is that for the "non-essential" workers, any "shut-down" is just a paid vacation for them. They won't be paid during the "shut-down", but will receive back pay for time missed once they return.

Sweet deal, if you can get it. Think anyone in the private sector would ever receive the same treatment? And of course the only loser in all of this is once again, the taxpayer.

Really?

Even if non-essential workers wanted to work without pay, they could face fines of up to $5,000 or up to two years in prison for violating a federal law that prohibits agencies from accepting volunteer labor.

So how might it work this time?

"The main impact was a vast amount of work associated with building shutdown plans and determining exactly who was and wasn't essential, and all the morale issues associated with the fear of impending implementation of those plans," one SEA member said in an e-mail. "I worked hard to get as many as possible of our then-1,200 or so employees deemed essential as I could, and that helped with morale.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2011/02/what_might_a_government_shutdo_1.html

Agencies retroactively paid workers once the doors reopened, but many government contractors -- paid separately by private employers -- earned nothing during the shutdowns.

Depending on if they get paid then and only then is it sweet.

Spanky: Hey Ron - do you 1. think a re-count is inevitable; and 2. do you agree that one is warranted in this case?

Spanky, Ron doesn't speak to conservatives. Ron: 1) Cheerleads other Liberals 2) Is the keeper of the "scorecard" 3) Tells us who "wins" (always the liberals) and loses (always the conservatives). And he likes to tell us all he's some kind of a doctor. Not much else there with Ron.

So if the government shuts down, we don't have to send in our taxes on the 15th, right?

Yeah.

Bev., dear, do you know anyone with multiple DUIs and no college degree that makes $100,000 a year? How about $1,000,000?

Does being convicted of a felony, or not having a college education somehow preclude earning more than a teacher?

Say Bev., what percentage of adult black men have 1. a felony conviction; or 2. no college degree?

So we sure would not want to just arbitrarily exclude that entire segment of the population [ felonies and no degrees] now would "we."

No way,Ron is a big 'fraidy cat?

He's a doctor and all, right Ron?

Say Ron, who is winning right now on the budget? Obama - whose last plan was to freeze spending at current levels, or the tea party - that advocates deep cuts?

Come on Ron, I know you may be scared, but I also know you love, love , love keeping score.

So go scoreboard Ron, I know you can do it.

Still waiting JoAnna Smith1...

For your reponse to my question in 1.12. You seem to think you have a lot to add to the conversation, so why haven't you responded?

Please hold your breath Fiesty

Take your time JoAnna

That Democrat Judge in Wisc. looks like she is auditioning for a part in The Munsters.

Whew that is an ugly woman, looks like " Boo, Damn I'll bite cha'"

Hey look JAS1 Feisty got you off her ignore list.

I love when to aggressive overtakes the passive. Problem for someone like Feisty is, now that she has called out a response from you, she certainly will have to respond in kind when called out, or look even more foolish.

This ought to be mighty fun. Thanks for playing Feisty.

And speaking off getting called out, Ron? Ron? Hello Ron?

JoAnna:

They won't be paid during the "shut-down", but will receive back pay for time missed once they return.

Sweet deal, if you can get it. Think anyone in the private sector would ever receive the same treatment?

Are you SERIOUS?! Now you're talking like federal workers are staging this just to get some extra time off at taxpayer expense. Like this is somehow their fault, too.

Well, I suppose there is an upside here. This one comment proves just how delusional you really are.

By the way, you don't suppose their mortgage payments will wait for them, do you? Or maybe they can get credit at the grocery store. Sheesh.

Why don't you try living on no income for a while and see how you like it.

Spanky: Hey look JAS1 Feisty got you off her ignore list.

Who's "Feisty"?

Spanky:

I've been watching the Wisconsin results come in. Just now noticed you had two questions. Yes to both of your questions. I think a recount is inevitable and warrented in this case. BTW I do respond to conservatives...when they ask reasonable questions.

Kloppenburg is now ahead by 240 votes with one conservative precinct and one liberal precinct still out. I heard a rumor the Koch Brothers have already put their lawyers on a plane to Madison.

Yeah, sure Anna, what ever. Maybe extend unemployment benefits to the "non-essential" federal government workers, you know so they can make a quick run down to Disney during their paid days off. A little R&R to relieve the stress. Wouldn't want the dearies to be inconvenienced in any way now, would we?

How do you think this would work in the private sector AM? Think the workers would get back pay for their furlough days? Maybe they'd have a little foresight and do something like "save" a few bucks just in case something like that happened. I guess as long as the private sector keeps paying for the benefits of the public sector workers, you really don't much care.

Oh Nooo!

Busting back some Feisty love and tactics on Feisty?

Absolutely fantastic.

And really Ron, consevatives asking reasonable questions? That's just ridiculous.

Good golly Feisty, it looks like you just got "Feisty-ed!" Yikes, old gal, that's gotta hurt.

What's next JAS1, you gonna burn down the Dew Drop?

Spanky: What's next JAS1, you gonna burn down the Dew Drop?

Not a chance. The toxic fumes would be worse than what's coming out of the Fukushima No. 2 nuclear reactor. You got to think of all the innocent people within 30 miles of the DDI before you attempt something like that.

So if the government shuts down, we don't have to send in our taxes on the 15th, right?

Yeah.

Bev., dear, do you know anyone with multiple DUIs and no college degree that makes $100,000 a year? How about $1,000,000?

Does being convicted of a felony, or not having a college education somehow preclude earning more than a teacher?

Say Bev., what percentage of adult black men have 1. a felony conviction; or 2. no college degree?

So we sure would not want to just arbitrarily exclude that entire segment of the population [ felonies and no degrees] now would "we." '

-WTH?

-what percentage of any other segment of population have felony convictions and no college degree- and how does that justify the unqualified hiring of Mr Deschane? (FYI- Mr Deschane was appropriately demoted back to his original position and salary- both still highly inflated considering his limited qualifications)

Jack Dillon "A point of clarification: back pay is not a guarantee for non-essential employees. It must be approved by congress. Kinda sucks if you have bills due and can't pay them, or your credit card rates default to the max because you aren't getting paid, etc..."

Since the average civilian federal worker (including secretaries, clerks, monument guards, etc.) gets a total average compensation of over $123,000 per year (about triple the average American worker), perhaps they should have set some of it aside for a 'rainy day'.

Where did you get your information on Federal Pay Mr. Wilson? I check the Federal and Military pay charts all the time. If I was a general or some high mucky-muck, I might agree. I served my country for 23 years in the Army working side by side with DoD civilian employees-working men and women. My wife has taught the children of soldiers for over 30 years as a DoD employee. I sure wish I could see some of that $123,000 a year that we supposedly make! You think Border Patrol officers and the Special Ops guys doing the actual work required to catch terrorists are gonna work for minimum wage? I guess the Tea Party really thinks they shouldn't have to contribute to keep us free.

$123,000? Seriously? I am one of the federal employees who is facing furlough and I certainly don't even come remotely close to that salary! And as for putting something away for a rainy day - that is a luxury most of us who are one income families don't have - although I keep trying! Get a realty check - working for the federal government is not full of perks and extras - I supervise over 50 staff and I don't make that kind of salary or even close! My staff are lucky if they come close to making $35,000-$40,000 - far cry from $123,000. Who is going to pay our mortgages or our bills?

Thank you for your service! Good Luck and God Speed.

I think it means that the government spent $99 billion it did not have last week.

I think it means that the government spent $55.75 billion a week, each week in February it didn't have.

As you can see Ursula, that little Libyan adventure is very costly, among of expenses incurred that the government lacks the ability to pay for.

I think it means no one, including you Ursula, can stand to stare at the Debt Clock for more than one or two seconds.

So take it all together Ursula and it means that the Tea Party, you , me , and everyone else will have to ride out a whole lot of stuff without our blanky, the federal government.

k?

Well considering the H1N1 Vaccine came out after the crisis had abated, I don't think the CDC was a good analogy to use. Ask yourself one simple question. What services do we have now ... that we did not have two years ago? Why do those services cost 1.6 trillion more than before this administration took office?

Ursula,

The lefty scare tactic--won't have enough flu shots, or there may be a salmonella outbreak.

Where do you see cuts coming from?--Do taxpayers need to fund the Cowboy Poetry Readings in Nevada?

Do we as taxpayers really need to send $41 billion dollars overseas in foreign aid? On top of the fact that we allow almost every country to export their goods here without tariffs.

Are you telling me and other taxpayers that our government cannot run without going $1.6 trillion dollars over the budgeted amount of projected revenue?

Are you telling me that federal employees, who AVERAGE over twice what their private sector peers make, couldn't handle a 5% decrease in salary until unemployment is under 5%?

Any business or government entity could cut 10% from their budget easily. In fact, if our President's budget would have been cut by 10%, there still would have been about a 3% increase in the budget over the last one we had.

Maybe you should use preventative measures when staying healthy, and cook your eggs a little longer.

Ursula - what we SHOULD be striving for is SMARTER government. We should be looking at and eliminating redundancies in governmental agencies. We should be looking at streamlining agencies and making sure they are responsive and responsible.

All of the other blather we are hearing about is just noise. SO WHAT if we cut less than 1% of the budget? We still have the deficit to content with, and you CANNOT deal with deficits if you have declining revenues. No one is willing to even look at or talk about any of this. No one is willing to look at or talk about our bloated Defense budget (even the Defense Secretary can find $100 Billion to cut... and Congress cannot? Give me a break).

Until the people DEMAND that something be done, nothing will ever be done. As we can see in Wisconsin, when the PEOPLE decide they have had enough, then we start seeing some action.

Interesting note to pay during shutdown. The House passed one bill that says representatives will not be paid if Government is shut down; the Senate passed another similar bill. But there has been no reconciliation of those two different bills--thus ensuring that the fine legislators who insist on shutting down government get their money. The House and Senate can both say they've passed legislation to not pay themselves but neither has been signed into law.

navyvet98. No, the H1N1 vaccine came out DURING the epidemic, not after. It prevented a pandemic. While I do not dispute the idea it would have been nice to have before it occurred--no one can successfully predict when such things happen. Yearly, scientists make a determination of the most likely type of flu strain to expect and vaccines are prepared in advance but it is based on "best guess" and does not presume to be 100% accurate. They sometimes get it wrong.

Ahh Pietro, nothing if not consistent.

Pietro how can we ever increase revenue when the president goes out and lowers taxes?

How can we ever decrease the defense budget when the president goes off and starts another war? Wars ain't free Pietro, did we learn nothing from Bush?

How frustrated are you in with this president Pietro? He's doing the opposite of everything you say?

Pietro: Ursula - what we SHOULD be striving for is SMARTER government. We should be looking at and eliminating redundancies in governmental agencies. We should be looking at streamlining agencies and making sure they are responsive and responsible.

All these wonderful ideas, but yet, that dunce Paul Ryan didn't include any of this in his plan, and the Democrats are too busy demagoguing Ryan to put them in any plan they might cook up.

The answer is just so easy! That must frustrate the hell out of geniuses like Pietro.

Didn't take long for the right to pick up Ryan's weekend talking point that the democrats will have to demagogue and lie--lead and they shall follow even if it is over a cliff.

I suppose you found that to be "extreme" right Jody?

Or have the dems actually come up with a budget that does not include Cowboy poetry?

No, Jody, it didn't take long.

What I find fascinating is that the President himself gave the GOPers and the Tea Partyers a place where he WOULD support them - and that is dealing with redundancies in Government. They could have had $100 BILLION easy - by doing nothing - and the President would have SIGNED the legislation.

Too bad the GOPers and Tea Partyers are too stupid - or stubborn - to at least get what they can. $100 BILLION in redundnacies is low hanging fruit that is EASY pickings, and they would have been able to rightfully proclaim success.

interesting news from the past 24 hours....

interesting news on a government shutdown or how to discredit FR liberal fear mongering on stopping SS payments, medicare, medicaid and food stamps

But the catch, this time as then, is that there are no hard-and-fast rules on what is considered essential versus nonessential. In coordination with the Office of Management and Budget, the president has broad discretion over which departments and agencies should be kept open, making it difficult to quantify how much it would cost the government -- and how it would affect the public -- if a shutdown were to happen.

unless President Obama, GOP congressional leaders and top Senate Democrats can cut a deal for the rest of the year, the shutdown may become a reality beginning midnight Friday

http://money.msn.com/taxes/latest.aspx?post=3d2a5969-6440-4eef-b35e-c2909ee12977&_nwpt=1

In an interview with CA (D) barbara lee yesterday by bloomberg news pim fox; lee had some rather telling observations about the potential coming shutdown...

Keep in mind that bloomberg interviews are based on a Q & A type of approach much like charlie rose.

Pims first question asked if their would be a shutdown. Lees response was basically a rant on how the republicans would be blamed for the poor not receiving their food stamps and welfare subsidies, the elderly would see SS payments suspended, her reply sounded exactly like the fear mongering beverly, jody and other FR libs spout out about. At first I thought I was hearing FR liberal rants live on TV.

When PImm wanted to ask another question, rep lee ignored him and continued on her rant of how bad the republicans were and why didn't they cut other areas of the budget, after all the budget was a MORAL DOCUMENT the poor deserved their government handouts, how dare the republicans deny handouts to the poor.

Pimm changed the question to "don't you ever talk to your fellow congressmen?". Her reply was rather telling when she said we are cordial in a social type setting, whereapon she immediately returned to her attack on republicans and her insistance that the budget was a MORAL document, and that while republicans supported food stamps she railed on how some food stamp recipients would be required to undergo job retraining to get them.

How novel of the republicans to want to retrain workers for a productive return to the workplace while receiving government aide.

Pim tried again to ask a question, and lee just kept on running off at the mouth without providing any type of narative on what the democrats had to offer. reminded me of what JohnB, AmyB, pat in boston, bev and others have to offer...NOTHING but to blame conservatives, republicans and tea partiers for Americas dilema.

Pietro: What I find fascinating is that the President himself gave the GOPers and the Tea Partyers a place where he WOULD support them - and that is dealing with redundancies in Government. They could have had $100 BILLION easy

What in the world is Obama doing? He could have clued his own guy, Harry Reid, in on this deal and had Harry put together the legislation! What a media event that would be, Harry coming out and saying "Republicans, you wanted $60 billion in cuts, here's a $100 billion!" Harry could throw the legislation on the table and watch as Boehner choked on his cigarette. A made for TV moment for sure.

All this "easy money", and no one will take it.

For republicans, it's all about being in power and when they aren't, they do everything they can to discredit the democrat in the White House. They don't care if people are hurt in the process, it's all about "Winning"--they're like Charlie Sheen in that respect; it never occurs to them to look inward at the price of "winning".

gee pat, republican initially wanted $100 billion in cuts, then lowered it to $61 billion, now they are talking $40 billion. If that is not showing a willingness to compromise what is? Zero cuts?

As the shutdown looms, the senate democrats had better stop saying NO and offer what they consider reasonable cuts to the house. If obama wants to play "responsible adult" he will step in and broker a deal. No trips, no excuses. Basically no one leaves the oval office until a deal is made. This BS of obama just using rhetoric has to end. Step up obama and be POTUS.

The budget requires the house, senate and obama to approve it. If obama can't accomplish this leadership tsk why should he be re-elected?

Isn't it great Bev.?

It is no longer about should we cut, only how much.

So Bev. what is your prediction: 1. it going to shut down, and if not how much will be cut.

And gosh, but isn't Pelosi just the gift that keeps giving?

Me, were I a dem, I really, really be pissed at her.

spanky - as a fellow Californian how do you feel about pelosi?

Watched a short interview of CA (D) rep barbara lee last night on bloomberg tv. She couldn't stop spewing out hatred for republicans (everything was their fault). How dare the republicans require job retraining for some to receive food stamps. At first I thought I was listening to FR liberals live!

Lee had no suggestions or plans on solving the crises, just all the repubs fault! Sad, really to think that a majority of a US congressional district voted for her.

It is amazing how all of a sudden Ole' Humpback Reid wants a compromise. He wasn't saying this shiznit when the Democrats controlled the purse. Everything was "whatever Pelosi wanted".

He should have thought about this back then, what goes around, comes around. I say Republicans hold your ground. Isn't that what you Liberals say all of the time?

golly bev, the republicans went from $100 billion to an approved $61 billion to now a $40 billion cut. If you knew math and fractions looks like the republicans have more than shown a willingness to meet the senate in the middle. Is reid mentally challenged on what the middle means?

Great, but $50 billion is about half of the debt created last week. What else you got?

Yeah, them muslims and their laws. Sharia law is really, really bad, right?

Pelosi - see if she had just passed a budget last year we would not be having this little shut down discussion. Or are you in favor of a shut down?

Thank you for your service to our country and for these people who seem to have too much time on their hands to spat back n forth. I have yet to hear one of them talk about actively doing something about it like vote, or have they paid their taxes on time? I guarantee you some of the people complaining aren't paying their taxes or voting so they really have no room to contribute any compalints. Do the right thing - be proactive FOR your country. Then, instead of all of the arrogant comments, you will know what you're talking about. No one wants the shutdown. It will affect everyone, not just federal employees.

kjack and Heart4USA - thank you for your posts. We need to hear from people like yourself that are going to be directly affected by this shutdown. The sad part about this shutdown is that many people think this is a game; it is their ideaology that drives their actions. This is all done in the name of the 'budget', but the legislation (if you can call it that) and the posturing suggest otherwise.

The funny thing about this is that if the Government is shut down, the ones that are perpetrating this fraud are still going to get paid. So, they really don't care.

I have seen the 'Cut it or shut it' mantra spewed here on this blog. It is sad, really, that so many people are voting and supporting those that are against helping AMERICANS when they are in need.

Please continue to post, especially on First Thoughts. Your voices need to be heard and your posts need to be seen front and center (and not buried on an obscure article).