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Before unveiling his fiscal plan that would phase out Medicare (and make big cuts to much of the rest of the budget), Budget Committee Chairman Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) said this on Sunday of Democrats:
“They are going to demagogue us, and it's that demagoguery that has always prevented political leaders in the past from actually trying to fix the problem. We can't keep kicking this can down the road. The president has punted. We're not going to follow suit. And, yes, we will be giving our political adversaries things to use against us in the next election, and shame on them if they do that.”
But in American politics, there’s usually enough shame to go around.
Before the 2010 elections, it was Republicans doing the demagogue-ing -- so to speak. The GOP -- as well as outside conservative groups (like Crossroads GPS and 60 Plus, the conservative alternative to AARP) -- criticized the proposed cuts to Medicare in the health-care overhaul.
The Democratic National Committee attempted to play defense, but Republicans blitzed the airwaves grabbing onto the Medicare issue. (At First Read, we wrote about the GOP’s 180 -- and now apparent 360 -- on Medicare here, here, and here.)
Here’s a sampling of scripts and links from other ads Republicans and Republican-leaning groups ran:
60 Plus vs. former Rep. Allen Boyd (D-FL): Older man: “Allen Boyd has betrayed Florida seniors.” Woman: “Instead of voting to protect us, he supported Nancy Pelosi’s liberal agenda.” Another woman: “Boyd voted for Nancy Pelosi’s health care bill, which would cut $500 billion from Medicare.” Another man: “That will hurt the quality of our care.” Woman: “We thought Boyd was looking out for us. But Allen Boyd switched his vote on health care.” Man: “Florida seniors can send Allen Boyd a message – he betrayed us. This November, we’ll remember.” (Hat tip: Politifact.)
Crossroads GPS vs. Joe Sestak (D-PA): “What’s Congressman Joe Sestak done? He voted to gut Medicare, slashing benefits for Pennsylvania seniors. The Obama-Sestak scheme could jeopardize access to care for millions. … Gutting Medicare, hurting seniors, killing jobs, Pennsylvania can’t afford Joe Sestak.”
That looks very similar to this NRSC vs. Sen. Michael Bennet (D-CO): Bennet: “I’ve been in Washington only a year.” Announcer: “And what’s Bennet done? He voted to gut Medicare, jeopardizing benefits for over 200,000 Colorado seniors. … Gutting Medicare, hurting seniors, killing jobs.”
Crossroads GPS vs. Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-CA): “California seniors are worried. Barbara Boxer voted to cut spending on Medicare benefits by $500 billion. Cuts so costly to hospitals and nursing homes that they could stop taking Medicare altogether. Boxer’s cut would sharply reduce benefits for some and could jeopardize access to care for millions of others. … Check the facts and take action. Call Boxer. Stop the Medicare cuts.”
And here was former RNC Chairman Michael Steele touting his proposed “Seniors Bill of Rights”: “No cuts to Medicare to pay for another program. Zero.”
There was even an RNC Spanish-language radio ad (translated, per RealClearPolitics): “Where is the money going to come from? Will you really cut funding for Medicare to pay for it? How can that be good? That’s really going to hurt our seniors. Big federal spending programs, no improvement in jobs, and Medicare cuts. That’s just not good enough. We can’t afford for things to keep on this way. Mr. President - is this the best you can do.”
From the ambiguously named, “League of American Voters”: Young woman: “Cutting Medicare $400 billion?” Faux government official: “Streamlining. The elderly are such a drain on the system.”
Rep. Erik Paulsen (R-MN) v. Jim Meffert (DFL-MN): “Meffert’s for the trillion-dollar health-care takeover and a massive $500 billion cut in Medicare”
Here was the NRCC against former Rep. Mark Schauer (D-MI): “Maybe Schauer’s trying to hide his own vote to cut $500 billion from Medicare. Listen to Schauer caught on tape.” Schauer’s voice: “Yes, there are Medicare cuts.” Announcer: “Did Schauer really vote to cut Medicare?” Schauer again: “There are Medicare cuts.” Announcer: “Let’s save Medicare, and cut Schauer.”
Now freshman Rep. Dan Benishek (R-MI) vowed: “Social Security and Medicare are a promise we’ve made to our seniors. And I will keep that promise.” Announcer: “Dr. Dan Benishek’s plan would guarantee Social Security and Medicare for the future.”
Lamar Alexander (in Senate Republicans’ video at about 0:46): “We can say no to higher taxes, higher premiums, and cuts to Medicare.”
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Republicans are out of their league. They are a mouthpiece for corporate fatcats and have no knowledge of handling the economy nor dealing with the debt nor budget.
They have made a mockery of responsibility realizing that they only have to speak and the base takes their word for whatever it is worth, and thus far their word is worth nothing.
In order for the economy to continue on the slooooooow turn around the lonnnnng curve, they just need to deal with the long term fiscal issues and stop with the short term bias. Stop-gap, temporary tax breaks, blah, blah, blah... they're all about the next election and not about the future. They want to be around to see it happen. Well that's not the way it works. Do your job and get out of the way and let the process work.
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
This practice is commonly known as talking out of both sides of your mouth to snooker the stuck on stupid crowd!
Does this mean they were against before they were for it or for it before they were against it?
It's difficult to keep up with the rate of spin coming from the right!
I will give them credit, they sure know how to epitomize the short memories of most Americans these days...
Still waiting to see the Democrats plan for addressing the economic issues of the country. Or is Obama's proposed 2012 budget with $1.65 billion in deficit spending that plan?
And I know it's too much to ask to have Harry Reid and his Democratic Senate to go on record with any thing that resembles a plan. When you going to take a vote Harry? You know, to show the country where you stand and what you believe in.
they are just corporate magic wands.......hey, use me
Can someone send me
a) A Bev to English translator
b) Whatever LouisJ is smoking
Guess what, Social Security will be next.
The Republican party has been trying to dismantle the social programs of FDR and LBJ since the day the laws were first passed.
Now they are using the economic downturn THEY CREATED to force cuts to those programs. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but it does give you pause think.
If you don't have a million dollars in the bank and your health insurance paid for for the rest of your life, good luck, with the Republican party in charge of the house, your gonna need it.
Louis,
Why do you never seem to be able to stumble across something intelligent to say? Sheez, if you would spend less time worrying about the "me first" and click on RCP, find a lib, read something - you might accidentally come up with something intelligent from time that someone could discuss.
"Republicans are out of their league?" - Dems don't even show up for the game. Whether on the state level and skedaddling out of state, to Washington where Harry plays with himself under his desk to Obama taking the wife, kids and Grandma everywhere.......where is their plan? Where is the leadership from Reid, or Obama. It was supposed to be done LAST YEAR! - and they still don't have any ideas.
"Mouthpiece"...blah blah...."corporate fatcats"..... how ignorant are you? Can't come up with any position to discuss? "Mockery of responsibility?" What mockery is that.....do you have a clue? "Word is worth nothing" and what word is that? Article is about Ryan....want to challenge/discuss anything he said? Day after day of the same mindless worthless drivel - absolutely nothing of value.
"they need to deal with long term issues..."? What do you think the article is about? Do you not read anything?
Bottomline - Obama and Reid are gutless cowards who have neither the capacity to lead or the courage to even put forth a plan.
Ryan is at least has the courage to address the problems, the work effort to produce a plan and the courage to present it.
Bob, sorry couldn't even make it past your first sentence. When you do nothing but insult, you have nothing to say. But hey, coming from a Republican, I find that to be a standard response. Whatever makes you warm and fuzzy inside.
Giggidy
:^/
Fisty, If you would stop cramming your hand into your crotch and think for one second. We know that Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security will not exist in it's current form in the future. I am one who will not see what I have paid into them. Now is the time to do something about it. It is unsustainable. Survivial of the fittest. Signed registered DEM.
Yes, read all. Know repulsives are only for the rich. As for gutless cowards, just look at the gop, they were for it before they were against medicare cuts and now they are for it again. All they care about is to be re-elected and make themselves rich at taxpayers expense. They get all medical on our dollar; they increase their own pay on our dollar; they follow instructions given by koch and others of his ilk. We, the people need to stand up by going to the polls the next time and kicking them out.
OH NO.... THE REPUBS ARE OUT TO KILL GRANDMA.. and GRANDPA too!!!!
PANTS ON FIRE~!!!!
And then what? All these economic problems magically disappear?
Louis,
Gosh, First sentence - all I asked was a simple question...."Why do you never seem to be able to stumble across something intelligent to say?" Couldn't answer that one either, huh?
I think this is what Palin referred to as a "squirmish". I was against medicare cuts, then I squirmed and I am for medicare cuts, them I squirmed again, and now I am against them, squirm .. for them.
Well what do you know...if Obama's HCR was was Death Panels for Grandma and Grandpa; then Republicans are proposing genocide on the elderly population...
I'm not over stating it, it's just a strictly linear analogy to the death panels - the ones I heard of 2yrs ago.
I need to wear my t-bags (or cappuccino).... and wave around my don't tread on my liberalism flag.... we need to defend our constitution and our grandparents... the republicans will drag them into gas chambers, and just end them - analogous to phasing out medicare, right?
Add one more:
If you quote anything from the Moonie Times as if it were the gospel truth, you might be a bit dodgy in the brainpain...
True American-2367375
You Conspiracy theorist, you!
You got your tin-foil hat yet? I can't stop laughing....somebody help me.... anybody...
@Tunde Akins - Thank you expressing that so directly. That's exactly what I was thinking. How can Republican and Tea Party supporters still keep mumbling about alleged "Death Panels", when this is more like it's time to check in to check out. I know my parents just lost their pension medical coverage from their employer, who passed them over to Medicare. And I am supposed to do what when Medicare gets dissovled? I have been saving like a fiend, but that is all for naught if Social Security gets hit too. Yes, I know that neither side of the aisle is fixing the problem, but how do we get someone who will? That's the part that scares the crap out of me.
There is a clear and organized effort to regress this country back to the days of the robber baron and oligarchy of the corporations and wealthy. And a sadly large amount of people are either choosing to support it while hoping that, as bootlicking collaborators, they will be kept around, or not realizing that the finger-pointing demonization of unions in particular and laborers in general is just the blue smoke and mirrors misdirection intended to turn us against each other before we realize, too late, who the true enemy is.
Instead of buying the lies Repub regressives spout about the "horrendously high" level of personal and corporate taxes, please consider this posting on the website of Economist's View, by Linda Beale, a law professor at Wayne State University who specializes in tax law.
"The Tax Foundation is busy again pushing its latest propaganda idea--that the US has such high corporate taxes that it stifles competition and hurts our economy.
Wrong. Fact is, though our tax laws include statutory rates that are fairly high (35% for corporations earning about $18 million or more annually) but generally in the same ballpark as those of other developed western nations, the actual tax rates paid by US corporations are extraordinarily low, around 6%. Remember the latest GAO report (reported elsewhere on ataxingmatter) that shows that two-thirds of US corporations pay no federal income tax. That's not just the ones that are losing money, but also many corporations that have record high profits (including some Big Oil companies) that end up paying next to nothing in taxes.
That's because the statutory rate of 35% is only on paper. Corporations engage in aggressive tax planning that cheats the system, and they take advantage of a bountiful number of lucrative loopholes built into the system under the four decades of Reagan-style corporate favoritism and deregulation, including items such as accelerated depreciation, various expensing provisions that let corporations deduct before they really have an economic cost, and the lucrative research & development credit that lowers taxes dollar-for-dollar for R&D expenditures that corporations have to do anyway (so they do not serve as an incentive to greater development) and that corporations have often already done prior to the enactment of the one-year "extensions" of the credit that have been taking place as transitions to no-credit for years.
As a result, the US is actually a corporate tax haven, with the lowest effective corporate tax rates of almost all the countries that participate in the OECD. That's a little fact that the Tax Foundation apparently doesn't want the American public to understand, since all its hype is in terms of statutory rates and not in terms of effective tax rates."
We are being manipulated through our basest emotions, envy, fear, anxiety, selfishness. And the whining from the fooled ones, when they awake from their Faux News trance, will be loud and pitiful to hear, but I will have no sympathy for them.
My Pet Peeve for today:
I am an American citizen, (can trace my roots in the United States back to the early 1800's), and what I do not like is people speaking for me. "...The American people are ready to reform Medicare and Social Security..." No one asked this American what she thought. I am not ready to reform Social Security, nor am I ready to reform Medicare in the way prescribed by either party. Now this American has spoken for herself.
To hear Republicans tell it, our forefathers made the dangerous trip here and discovered America just so that we could experience the same kind of corporate take over our forefathers ran away from in the first place.
Now that Republican politicians have purported read the U.S. Constitution out loud (none really hung around long enough to hear the whole thing), their followers and Republcians ought to do the same thing.
The U.S. Constitution was not written to protect Corporate Fat Cats and/or multi-gozillionaire Oil Companies.
The U.S. Constitution was written to protect THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, the majority of which are powerless against Corporate bribes and demagoguery.
When will they start installing the rapture buildings and you get the flashing light in your palm when it is time for you to be turned into solyent green? Last I checked the last medicare program was wait for it a Republican plan called the semior rescription drug plan the drug company's wrote for them.
TA I don't believe she was saying that she was a free loader, but leave it up to you to call her names. That's my pet peeve, you guys just reek of ignorance. We have to spray you with Hater Spray to make the smell go away.
Matter of fact, if someone is able to trace their lineage back to the 1800's is likely in a good position to take care of themself.
Giggidy
:^/
OOOOOOOooooo! There goes Wayne Allen Root of the Washington Times playing scary witch doctor again, shaking his rattle and uttering the 'terrifying' hex word "socialist"... ! And he's basing his 'expert' opinion on the fact that he shared a classroom in college with President Obama. But careful reading of his piece reveals a better explanation for his 'accusations', one of the most common of the baser emotions: envy, along with a healthy dollop of sneering elitism.
- Awwww, did somebody (named Wayne Allen Root) fail to get an A in economics, while somebody named Barack Obama DID?!
- Ohhh, so everyone who attended a public school in the United States is thereby of suspect intelligence, education and capability. Nice for us 'peons', the majority of the American people, to know. And just where did Wayne allen Root matriculate his K-12 education?
- This is just an absolute crap lie. Multiple independent studies show that greening the economy creates jobs, and new categories of jobs. Spain's economic difficulties mirror the economic difficulties being experienced by virtually EVERY government in the world, which has almost everything to do with the worldwide recession than by whether the government is green, socialist, capitalist or a dictatorship.
I see comments on here from people who are so scared and selfish that they don't want to help anyone. They're like the first-class passengers in the Titanic's lifeboats who didn't want to go back for survivors because they didn't want to risk their own well-being. What happened to so many Christians in this country that they talk their worship of Jesus but won't walk the essence of his teachings: love one another, help one another, without judging one another.
The miracle of the loaves and fishes was meant to teach us an important lesson: where there is sharing and belief in abundance, abundance will exist; where there is greed and selfish hoarding and care only for oneself, out of perception and fear of want, then want will exist. THAT'S why the Repubs are trying to make everyone resentful and scared of everyone else, they want to control and monopolize through our own base emotions. They are CINOs = Christian in Name Only.
By the way, those of you who buy the shrieking of Congressman Ryan and all the other "the sky is falling" budget deficit demagogues, when did the official Republican policy-think issue change?
Former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill was told "deficits don't matter" when he warned of a looming fiscal crisis.
O'Neill, fired in a shakeup of Bush's economic team in December 2002, raised objections to a new round of tax cuts and said the president balked at his more aggressive plan to combat corporate crime after a string of accounting scandals because of opposition from "the corporate crowd," a key constituency.
The last time the Republicans had power: the House, the Senate AND the White House, they didn't think deficit spending was a problem. Granted, that was waaaaay back in 2004, but at just what point did their driving philosophy change direction? Could it have been, oh, say, December of 2008 after they got their electoral asses handed to them?
Can you say HYPOCRITE'S? Real loud? They will now be known by me as the TPhypo's.
The Seeded article is about it being hypocritical for the GOP to say don't demagogue us for proposing Trillions in cuts to Medicare just because they spent 2009 and 2010 demagoging the Democrats for making $500B cut to Medicare. Especially when the Democrats at least had pretext as to how that cut was going to be offset and not impact Medicare recipients negatively. Yes, yes it is Hypocritical.
Now is Paul Ryans plan a good plan? I don't know yet, there is still much to learn about it. It is much bigger than proposing changes to Medicare, he has some tax reform in there too. I do think the apparent lack of attention dealing with the way so many corporations get Corporate Welfare and pay little or no taxes and only proposing cuts is a huge flaw. But I'm sure there will be many changes to this draft.
I do applaud Paul Ryan for proposing Big Things. I will lay down hard cash that those proposals will look very much different before they could possibly pass. But you need to start with big ideas to accomplish big things.
Carmarie, thanks for making your feelings known. Never mind that someone IMMEDIATELY tried to bully you into silence. The Conservative authoritarians use that to try to silence the opposition. This is no time to be silent.
Sounds like your record is scratched.
Good points/bad points but bottom line is we let all this happen. SSI going broke- I have an idea lets speed it up by stimulating the economy by giving everyone a 2% tax break on their SSI, end result for me as a $100,000/yr earner=an extra $800/yr to stimulate the economy. NOT!!!! How did we let this happen? Through the constant fear we hear from the Republicans. Well it's done now. What can we do about it? Vote them out. Balance the budgets by cutting government size across the board and use a flat tax rate that is fair for all. Allow no deductions and apply it without any caps on earning across the board for all 3 federal taxes- SSI, Medicare, and federal tax on all earnings, not just net income. Put it to a national vote in 2012. We have learned from our past mistakes that no matter whom we elect they get caught up in politics and do what the minority in Washington want and not what is best for the country. I say again let us, the tax payers, overhaul the tax code and take back our country with a nationwide vote on a fair tax code.
Even Lincoln during the civil war didn't empose a flat tax. He taxed the wealthy who could more afford the costs of preserving the union. During the fifties we built 19,000 atomic bombs and the interstate highway system. We didn't use a flat tax to do it. Bring back that tax system.
If you think the Republicans have ANY intention of dealing with that flaw, you are seriously barking up the wrong tree. Who gave 'em those breaks? Who insists that the people who RUN those corporations should keep getting tax cuts while the middle class takes it in the shorts over, and over?
Let me remind you of the late Leona Helmsley (Helmsley Hotels), her 188 counts of tax fraud, and her famous quote:
“We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes.”
Helmsley left her millions to her dog.
The dog got a tax cut from the GOP's insistence on cuts for the wealthy. No joke.
http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2010/12/02/leona-helmsleys-dog-will-get-a-tax-cut/
The worst part about all of this is that nothing will happen until we stop playing partisan politics, stop pointing fingers and realize that this is an American problem and we can only solve it by working together as Americans (probably never, but I can keep dreaming, right?).
I'm done now, go back to your name calling.
The top tax rate in America in 1920 was 6%. Now the rate is 35%? Yeah, let's take even more.
Funny though, Democrats had complete control of the US govt, and what did they do to "rectify" the tax unfairness, income equality, or passing a budget? NOTHING
Why is it the biggest corporate tax cheat (GE) CEO is Obama's advisor and friend?
Seems to me the real hypocrites have made their intentions clear - no budget, no answers, just whine, complain, lie and call names.
What is being gleefully overlooked (or just not stated) whenever "corporate loopholes" are brought up or the US tax rate is that outsourcing has taken away the middle of the supply chain, and is now relocating the beginning of the supply chain and ALL of the revenues associated. That is reveues from the creative and development process of products, sale of raw materials to make parts, revenues from the packaging, transportation and sale of parts, the packaging, storage and transportation of finished goods except for large distribution centers that receive the imports and send them out to retailers and wholesalers. That's lost wages, lost income tax from the wages, lost sales tax from the goods and services the employees purchase in daily living, lost income for US housing, lost income from every aspect of parts and packaging sold along with the lost jobs and earning capacity. It is lost revenue from every single step from development to consumer that has been cut from our economy and it is not going to be solved by cutting out the last vestiges of safety net...it will only be solved by people willing to let go of talking points (since they can't be bothered understanding the economy to begin with) and by retaking the technology and intelligence to create and produce products and materials here in the US.
When Bush & co took over, I was still working on my business degree and the big buzzword was outsourcing. The instruction detailed how to cut workers out of the picture by layoffs and subcontracting so the balance sheets showed profits when they didn't exist and that kept shareholders happy. ..and that's what the tax laws were designed to support. Cash can be set aside for "reinvestment" and the tax man will never count it (and the corporation will never actually use it for reinvestment)...so foreign accounts are bulging. The tax laws are written to only tax that which is sold in the US. That means every single process of a finished product, as long as it takes place off American soil is tax-free and only the final product is taxed provided it is sold here...so every product that is manufactured overseas and sold overseas never generates revenues for communities, states and the Federal Government as well.
Republicans have never known how to run anything except fear campaigns and hate campaigns. They want power and no effort to understand the consequences of their actions, only the authority to take action no matter where the chips fall.
"Privatize", "Outsource"...I know where those buzzwords came from, and I know full well those words mean "Higher cost for less goods and services" and "Higher taxes for anyone but the wealthy" when translated into English.
The House Republicans have produced a 2011 budget. The Senate Democrats have produced nothing.
The House Republicans have proposed legislation that addresses the need to reform entitlement spending, nearly 2/3’s of the federal budget, for this year, and for future years. The Senate Democrats talk about preserving the funding for Cowboy Poetry.
The House Republicans repeatable send Continuing Resolutions to the Democratic Senate to avoid a government shutdown. The Senate Democrats have yet to pass a bill of their own on the 2011 budget.
The House Republicans are proposing a 2012 budget that sets the standard for government reform for both entitlement and discretionary spending. The Senate Democrats, and House Minority leader Nancy Pelosi, are already in the process of demagoguing the plan.
The GOP is on the record for supporting real plans for putting the country back on sound economic footing. The Democrats will take no votes, make no commitments, are are only looking for a political advantage rather than a economic solution to the problems facing this country.
So let the Democrats demagogue the solutions being put forth by the Republicans. Let them be the ones that ignore the problems of the country. That's fine, that's the level of leadership we expect from them. And don't think the voters don't notice.
Ahh, JoAnna, your Republicons have only proposed a bunch of cuts that would hurt a hell of a lot of people, and lose hundreds of thousands of jobs. Of course you, as a tea party/Republicon, don't care!
@JoAnnaSmith1 : They haven't produced anything because deficit reduction at this point in time ain't such a good idea because the economy is fragile. Certainly cuts to reduce waste make sense but large scale cuts aren't a good idea.
This is why it made sense to let the Bush Tax custs get extended - its not a good idea to raise taxes right now.
Republicans have made deficit reduction the "in thing", even if it makes no sense in the current environment. But NO Politician is going to actually say that . Economist do, but economists aren't publically elected to their positions.
Right now, we have 10% of the country unemployed. We need them employed, working and paying taxes - not collecting unemployment money from the Government.
While I don't agree with the Democratic position, I certainly understand it.
If the Republicans say that deficit reduction is the thing to do and then trumpet high costs at every meeting - then tell us how.
Obama said that "investment' in certain areas was the thing to do - and told us how.
I find the entire situation rather interesting. When BIG legislation is required, you always get demagogery from the other side. This situation sounds a lot like what occured after the Dems proposed Healthcare reform ( remember killing grandma ? )
Same situation...different topic.
I see you got the talking points memo. "So let the Democrats damagogue the solutions put forth by the Republicans."
How is wiping out healthcare for 13% of all Americans going to help this country ?
Paul Ryan's plan may not be the best one...it may have serious flaws. It may only prove to be a starting point for negotiations that result in a bipartisan plan that seriously addresses the debt crisis.
It's interesting...
Both President Obama and Rep. Ryan decided not to endorse the Plan offered by the President's debt commission. I know that Ryan objected to the fact that the debt commission's Plan was based on the implementation of the Democrats' health care reform legislation...legislation that he's strongly opposed to, but hopes will ultimately not be implemented.
In any event...Ryan's put his own proposal on the table.
Then, there's President Obama. If he's not going to endorse the Plan of his own debt commission, and certainly NOT Paul Ryan's plan...what is he going to do about the debt crisis?
He knows the numbers. His own FY 2012 budget proposal tells us that $13 trillion in new debt will be added over the next 10 years (nearly doubling the $14 trillion presently on the books), and that the interest payments on our debt will approach $1 trillion annually. That's the destination the present course leads to.
The President KNOWS this.
So...toss out Ryan's plan...toss out the debt commission's Plan.
Where's your plan, Mr. President?
Let's hear it.
So Mark, what's the Democraps plan? You know, seeing they/you care so much.
JoAnna, the president and the Dems have submitted plenty of plans (as the articles points out, Dems originally cut Medicare) and the president started the Deficit Commission remember?
We are still waiting for the Republican's "replace" part of repeal... With an aging population, and an unhealthy obese population, you think entitlements will break the bank? No, it will be health care in general.
So increasing the debt by $13 trillion dollars over the next 10 years, and passing that massive debt on to our countries next generations because we couldn't get our act together today is the Democrats plan?
Sounds more like stealing from our children to me.
Did know Erskine Bowles (co-chair of President Obama's Debt Commission) was a Republican.
Pablo, the economic debt problems of the country are not the "in thing", they're the "only thing".
Are we talking about the same party, the party of NO
Please quote the bill ID numbers that legislated these "plans". Let us know how the votes went on those plans. Thank you.
The Debt Commission actually. And when the Debt Commission finished their work, President Obama thanked them for their efforts, and promptly shredded their report.
Please - don't believe all the hype. The deficit issue is the "new Coke" flavor of the day. Something you can bash Dems on and sound tough.
If we are so broke:
Why are we fighting a war in Afganistan? How can we afford it? ( ~ 200 Billion a year )
Why extend the Bush Tax cuts? - obviously we are broke. When was the last time you were broke and GAVE away money? America is broke - so obvisously we can't give away money
I watched the Space shuttle take off and land last month - we're broke..what's the benefit in NASA when obviously we have no money?
How can we be giving millions to Oil companies when we have no money?
How can we pay for and incent people to purchase a $40k automobile ( Chevy Volt )?
When the way to economic stabillity is to cut NPR and Planned Parenthood - I KNOW that no one is serious and perhaps the entire issue of debt reduction is over-inflated.
Last year, we were told to pay attention to Healthcare lest grandma be killed.
We are as broke as the politicians and the media say we are. But look around you, my guess is that we are not as broke as publicized.
"...the economic debt problems of the country are not the 'in thing', they're the 'only thing'."
The issue never goes away...it won't go away unless and until it's seriously addressed.
It will define the Obama Presidency.
Tick-tock, Mr. President.
Pablo-
43 cents of every dollar your government spends this year is borrowed.
That's broke.
Granted...
We'll be even more broke when they won't lend us any more money, Pablo.
Yeah, and unless we gut EVERYTHING (and that INCLUDES defense spending) we won't get close to a balanced budget.
But Republicans (or at least the ones who fill the airwaves) won't talk about that. In fact, they want to INCREASE defense spending.
They can brag about defunding NPR, but NPR is like .00001% of the budget.
The federal government currently receives about $2.5 trillion in tax revenue per year. The federal government has outlays of about $3.7 trillion dollars. About $2.2 trillion of those outlays is for entitlement spending, the rest is discretionary spending. In essence, all of discretionary spending is funded with borrowed money. And as entitlement spending increases to support the Baby Boomers heading to retirement, that amount of outlays will continue to increase, and will put more pressure on the government to borrow even more money.
We, as a country, are most definitely broke.
True American - Read Congressman Ryan's budget. It also calls for increased defense spending. At that point, it's dishonest to claim he's about deficit reduction when he won't target one of the largest pieces of the federal pie.
You're still missing the point, Spotts-
If I tell you that Ryan's plan sucks...
And that the plan that President Obama's debt commission came up with sucks...
You gotta tell me where President Obama's plan is.
Spotts...?
Interesting that even in this "emergency", when 95% of Americans would get a tax increase out of the Ryan plan, he still comes up with enough money to reduce taxes on the top 1% by 15%.
Yet another plan to impoverish average Americans while filling the pockets of the wealthy elites.
I have read the Constitution. But we have to be flippin' realistic.
If you are not willing to be realistic, sit down and let the grown-ups talk.
Bye.
and yet i haven't seen any troops anywhere near the US doing any defending. why do we need to add spending to the military to defend other nations true american.
OK, John B.-
You endorse the President's plan?
That's what this all comes down to...if you don't like Ryan, and you don't like the President's debt commission...
What do you and the President like, John?
$13 trillion in additional debt and annual debt service payments of nearly $1 trillion?
That's our President's plan, John B.
MB : I like waffles, with butter, and syrup and sausages.
"Why is it that if our President wants to do what's best for the country, doesn't he expedite the process and have it move directly to the Supreme Court?"
Because HE CAN'T. Anyone with even a basic grasp of the judicial process knows that you cannot skip steps the federal appeals process. The Supreme Court would look at it, then kick it back to the Circuit Court of Appeal as "not ripe".
"what's realistic about every taxpayer continuing to have their wages garnished by the federal government so that they can add that tax money to two failing entitlement programs?"
What's realistic about spending biliions and billions of dollars for a fighter jet that hasn't seen a single moment of action on the battlefield? What's realistic in spending millions on more flag officers than we have had during any time in American history, including two world wars? What's realistic about spending billions to deploy 11 aircraft carriers, more than all the other nations on the planet combined? We can't do the same amount of force projection with 9?
Joanna, great numbers, shows a $1.2 trillion shortfall, which is about 70% of what we're losing in revenues from the wealthy/corporate tax-cuts and added exemptions that the GOP has forced on us since Nixon. That other 30% would have kept our $14T in debt from having ever happened. Time to restore our tax structure to the pre-60's.
From True American:
Our defense meaning the United States of America. Last time I checked, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya were not the 51st, 52nd, and 53rd states, so this is a budget item that has to be cut, and cut severely in order to balance a budget. Any plan that does not include defense cuts is a sham that is posturing for the sake of looking good to voters.
JohannaSmith - You always leave out the obvious when you talk about how broke we are and how we're spending more than we take in. Do you remember two little tax cuts that President Bush instituted? Well they weren't paid for....just added to the debt. Do you remember two little wars that Bush started. Well, they weren't paid for just added to the debt. I bet if you took those two little dittys off of your figure, you just might see your doom and gloom to be what it really is......BS demagoguery.
dirp, I'm equally fond of bacon or sausage, but make mine eggs over easy rather than waffles.
true american, he's as much your president as he is mine. i am not party offiliated. not to mention, bush did the same thing so your argument is a childish one.
Brilliant! The Republicans have sent a budget to the Senate and those greedy Democrats simply won't agree to kick the working class and poor under the bus while giving more and more tax cuts to the corporations! What's wrong with those Dems? Don't they understand "supply" is the only important economic factor...who needs demand! Why those evil workers have enjoyed 2% increase in wages while the top 2% have had to struggle with a 27% increase. Damn greedy workers. And the poor and elderly, don't they understand that the mark of a great nation is how wealthy our wealthy are. They should gladly give up a few meals and meds for our productive "dividend recipients".
TO: JoAnnaSmith1 who wrote:
"The House Republicans have produced a 2011 budget..."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Really? What's in it? Where is it? Or is it just a few pieces of paper with the word "Budget" written on it that wasn't given any thought or purposeful use, but rather just a tool or instrument they could use to waive around?
The real reason why Republicans have gone back and forth on everything at least twice is because they have no real concerns for issues or the well being of the American People.
Republicans only care about the wealthy, which is why Republicans took care to make sure the wealthy had their tax cuts extended FIRST, and now Republicans are playing games with everything else.
Well guess what. I'm not wealthy, but I am one of the millions of Americans who suffered greatly under the LAST Republican "Budget" which took our entire economy down. Republcian Voters keep crying "bankruptcy!" but they don't seem to understand at all how we got here, or how to fix it.
The only OTHER thing Republicans give a hoot about is making sure they say the OPPOSITE of anything and everything the POTUS says, and Republicans just keep going around in circles, as fickle as ever, swearing they're being consistent because they are consistently AGAINST America.
H.R. 1 - http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hr1ih/pdf/BILLS-112hr1ih.pdf
American Girl, Republicans produced and rammed through a budget that they knew would be DOA when it hit the Senate, and should it slip through there wouldn't have a chance of being signed into law.
In the last Congress the Democratic House produced a budget, but it was filibustered by Republicans in the Senate so we were stuck with a succession of Continuing Resolutions.
See any indications that Conservatives are ready to take responsibility for their part in preventing a 2011 budget? Yeah, neither do I.
JoannaSmith, were you expecting anyone not to open up that PDF file? I've downloaded it and skimmed through it.... every page and it's not a budget, it's a republican wish list of what they want the budget o somewhat look like.....but it's not an actual budget and can't even pass the smell test.
I can't believe that the republicans actually treat their citizens like fools..... and the funny part was that they bolded every word and double spaced and margined it properly - so as to look like they have 359 pages.... lol, format it correctly and it's only 100 pages of easily readable summary.
Yep, Ryan and the "teabaggers" are nothing if not predictable. It is an act of treason to suggest that the wealthy, who have certainly made a pile of money during the Republican years, to maybe pay their share of taxes. But, by golly the poor, elderly and disabled...those folks have MONEY, let's GET THEM TO MAKE UP the fiscal ruin that we, the teabaggers, have created. Wonder how that works out with their "I am more holy than holy." DID Jesus preach that it is harder for the poor to get into heaven...or was he talking about Ryan and his bunch of merry marauders?
Evidently JS1 does not know that all financial bills originate in the House not the Senate. Doesn't even know basic civics. No wonder she has nothing relevant to say and is ignored by all. STTS
For more relevant conversation, Rep Paul Ryan has to know his ideas are real only in his own head. Translation: He is delusional.
Newday:
Stop with the liberal exaggeration. You know damn well all 401K are invested in the stock market. So if this is so we all have MADE money IF you work or have worked.
The wealthy will make money in Democrat years just as well as Republican. That is why they have money. I want you to present to us all here a POOR Democratic Congressman/woman.
Do you actually know what treason means? I notice you throw a lot of Liberal garbage around and really have zero knowledge of what you're talking about.
Ron:
Are you a Dr. of Psychiatry now? How do you know he is delusional? This man is a Congressman. You are just another complaining liberal blogger with nothing to do.
If you haven't walked in a man's shoes then you have not experienced what he has. Translation: YOU have not been elected to Congress so basically YOU really have no clue what goes on behind closed doors.
I find it moderately amusing that you would say something like this, given that in the past you have often lable the "tea-baggers" as old white people...
So you're thesis is that old white people are out to cut their own benefits as well as many others rather than unjustly overburden other people with taking care of them... well that's mighty generous of them.
I just want to know why entitlements like welfare and aid for the poor are not really being reformed. What was wrong with a work for welfare program? Where a welfare recipient must pass a drug test before recieving aide and must pass random drug tests to continue recieving aide, and in addition to this the recipient must perform a certain number of commuinity service hours, based on their situation, to recieve aid. What is wrong with a program like that instead of one that awards more aide for each child that a welfare recipient pops out? I think that if we have a system where the community gets something back out of the welfare support programs than the public would be more willing to support the programs, but as it is, a;; the community sees is a never ending cycle of children born to parents on welfare who drop out of school and continue on with the cycle and passing it on to their children and so on. That has to end.
I love how you can sit back and ridicule someone who is trying to contribute to a solution to the problem rather than give your own ideas about what you think should be done. But that is because you're only idea is, "the rich people have more money than anyone else, take it from them to pay for it." The only problem is that as soon as it becomes too much of a finacial burden to live here they will move to other countries and their money will go to that countries coffers and then what will your solution be? At what point do realise that taxes aren't the answer?
Paging Dr. Ron, paging Dr. Ron! Democrats are now on life support! Need some serious hand-waving to make the Democrats look relevant, stat!!
And the House Republicans have passed a 2011 budget bill Dr. Ron. The Democratic led Senate though voted that bill down, as well as one they cooked up. Pity, isn't it Dr. Ron? So, until the Senate figures out what they stand for, what their values are, and what their budget proposal bill is, just what is there to negotiate Dr. Ron? I guess it's better that the Democrats just sit there and whine about it rather than actually do some work.
He's not even close to the fantasy world you live in Doc. No one is.
Oh, we're back to the Libby acronyms again. How nice.
The Republican Conservative attack on the middle class picks up speed. The GOPTP is in full attack mode now; reproductive rights, workplace rights, the ENTIRE social safety net scheduled for demolition. At this point the dots are so close together they're connecting themselves. It's a picture of slavish devotion to the rich and careless disregard for all things that make American life what it its.
And they aren't even very good at it, John B. I wonder how many voters are regretting their vote?
John B: I have to agree. How anyone could vote for these kind of policies is beyond me. Anyone voting for a Republican is, as someone pointed out, "like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders."
It is time to stop the political insults and discuss the viability of the proposed changes. If the plan is to provide health care to our most indigent people, than the Republican plan is very inefficient. The Republican plan is to convert Medicare and Medicaid Programs to a system where government vouchers will be issued to purchase private insurance. Injecting the requirement for using private insurance carriers in the government insurance programs will increase the overall cost. We know from the healthcare battles of 2009 that the government cost for collecting and dispersing monies in public healthcare plans is about 3 percent or $300 for every $10,000 collected by the government. However, when private insurance is involved, the new Healthcare law had to limit private insurance from taking more than 20 percent or $2000 for every $10,000 collected. Thus, the amount of money from the $10,000 collected by the government and paid to direct healthcare providers will be reduced from the current $9,700 to $8,000 when private insurance becomes involved. In other words, $1700 of the original $10,000 vanishes into corporate executive benefits, corporate profits, unnecessary advertising, and political campaign donations to further influence our Congress. I would rather not see the $1700 being siphoned away from direct health care to support the private insurance corporations and politician campaign war chests.
"Evidently JS1 does not know that all financial bills originate in the House not the Senate."
_______________________________________________
Dr. Ron: Where did you get that from?? Thinkprogress??
Again the Tea Baggers show that they don't know much on how the government works?
Again the Tea Baggers show that they don't know much on how the government works?
__________________________________________________
TARP was not originated in the House and yet it became law. How did that happen FR Constitutional scholars?
Not a scholar, but much as the president outlines and proposes a budget, President Bush and treasury suggested that the TARP bill be passed. Originally it was defeated then a few weeks later it passed by both House and Senate and President Bush signed it. October 2008
"Snip" kybanks.com/uploads/pdf/com081126tarpchronacct.pdf
Timeline_
September 17
th The Federal Reserve lends $85B to American General (AIG). They
take 79.9% ownership position using 100% of company as collateral.
•
September 19th Treasury makes public their Troubled Asset Repurchase Program
(TARP). In addition the Federal Reserve supports Money Markets and ABCP
Markets. Treasury also announced their Money Market Guarantee program which
protects the shares of all money market fund investors as of September 19, 2008; each
money market fund makes the decision to sign-up for the program.
•
September 21st Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley applied to become Bank Holding Companies (BHC)
•
September 25th Washington Mutual was seized by FDIC and sold to JP Morgan Chase
•
September 29th TARP was defeated by Congressional House 228-225.
In addition the Federal Reserve enters into a massive ($850B) liquidity action
program by increasing the size of the 84-day maturity term auction facility (TAF)
auctions to $75B from $25B beginning with the 10/06/08 auction. Additionally
forward TAF auctions totaling $150B that will be conducted in November to provide
term funding over year-end. The FDIC approves the sale of Wachovia Bank to
Citigroup (more on this later). The FDIC enters into a loss sharing arrangement with
Citi which will absorb up to $42B of losses on a $312B pool of loans.
•
October 1st Senate passed TARP
•
October 3rd House passes TARP and President signs bill which implements TARP in
$250B/$100B and $350B tranches. The FDIC increases the bank guarantee program
to $250K for 30-days free and increase the cost to the banks by 10bp's after that for
non-interest bearing accounts and 75bp's for newly issued senior unsecured debt
Mark, the TARP bill that became law was originated in the Senate. Dr Ron and Job1 seem to think that's not possible and are basically calling the "righties" stupid for not knowing it's "impossible".
Yet, IT HAPPENED. All I want them to do is back up their "superior" knowledge with some facts.
Actually Joe in Albany, Economic Stabilization Act of 2008, or TARP as it is known, is a House bill. HR1424. HR indicates it originated in the House of Representatives. The Senate then amended it and passed the bill with the amendment and submitted it back to the House for passage which it did. The Bill was then signed by then President Bush thereby creating the TARP program.
Although the idea or the need for the funds was proposed to both the House and the Senate by the Executive Branch, HR1424 was written in the House of Representatives.
Paul, you are tecnically correct, but, factually in error: HR 1424 was originally passed in the House as the "Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act of 2008". After the Dem House morons defeated the original TARP bill, the Senate amended HR 1424 to remove all its original language and replaced it with the Senate's version of TARP. So your statement "HR1424 was written in the House of Representatives." is incorrect. As are Dr. Ron and Job1's Constitutional scholarship saying "all financial bills originate in the House not the Senate" .
TARP was written by and originated in the Senate and it became law.
Joe, Adding a few amendments is not rewriting the entire house version. The Senate took what was proposed by the House in HR3997, amended it, co-opted HR1424 and voted it as their own. For an explanation read here ->Differences in the 2 bills
By the way, the original House bill was defeated by the Republican caucus not the "Dem House morons". Nearly two thirds of the Democratic caucus voted in favor of the House version of the bill. When the bill was being debated on the House floor hardly any Republicans were present. You can't pass a bill in the House when 2/3 of the Republican minority votes No. Only 65 House Republicans voted for the original bill.
OK. Newsvine eliminated the link for the explanation. Lets see if it will allow this:
voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2008/10/how_the_senate_rescue_bill_is.html
d
yes - by all means let's all spout off about the repubicans rather than the complete lack of leadership of president obama
said the republican. of course you don't want to hear them talk about YOUR party, just as they don't want to hear you talk about their party. you party offiliated people make the rest of us feel like grown ups who have to sit at the kid's table to keep them from fighting.
We had Enough of "Hope and Change"........... It is time for "Courage and Change." Go Paul Ryan !! We want a future with an American Dream in it for our kids !!
Apparently there is only change left -- pennies, nickels and dimes.
The only change you will have is long soup lines. Maybe your kids can help dish out the soup.
Guess those are the jobs the liberals are trying to create
Its going to take a lot of Courage to face the kind of changes the Republican party wants to put in place.
If you, or your parents, don't have a private medical plan and are at or near 65, good luck. Rep. Ryan's plan wipes out Medicare and Medicaid.
I guess the Republicans were right about no death panels, they plan to have all the elderly die.
I have always said, dirp101, that you can tell what the Republicans plan on doing by what they lie and accuse the other side of the aisle of. It was just a matter of time before Republicans got into death panels,( witness Arizona), and now go after any medical insurance that an elderly or disabled person might have. We are rapidly getting to the place that you get the medical care you can pay for IF you are wealthy. The rest? They can die. The Republicans will be delighted to be rid of them.
NDD, you're right on target with the accusations. Projection is one of the constants in Conservative messaging. If they can pin their own worst qualities on Liberals it disables that information for use against them.
But only so long as we're "too polite" to object strenuously. Know what? There was nothing "polite" about accusations that Affordable Care would "kill Granny." There's nothing "polite" about whispered racist talk of "Kenyan Anticolonialism." There's nothing "polite" about painting Max Cleland, rendered a paraplegic by Vietnam war wounds as cowardly.
Politeness is lost on those who would just use it to take advantage of us. Rules are only another way to gain advantage for the cheaters.
The Conservative Republican war on the middle class shifted up another gear today. Polite will get us run over.
Budget Committee Chairman Rep. Paul Ryan
“They are going to demagogue us, and it's that demagoguery that has always prevented political leaders in the past from actually trying to fix the problem. We can't keep kicking this can down the road.
Hey Mr Ryan, why not roll back the spending Bush did, medicade part D, all the extra for Military(sh*t that right he left us in 2 wars no can do).
while i don't know the spefics of this plan, its a start. is this perfect, no but a start, Joanna this is what I'm talking about, work on the meat in the budget, not the peanuts like tsunami warning system. as more baby boomers retire and are on medicade we must deal with this problem now.
I do know that he will not be liked around the senior home during election time. they will throw there depends and false teeth at him.
Joanna i mean Sarah, No newt, Oha Glenn or Billo i see your back.
Love to roll back the military but how can we when President Obama ramped up the effort in Afghanistan and then started a no-fly zone in Libya? Which one of the 3 wars do you want to cut first?
Love to roll back Medicare D but didn't HCR add more entitlements to it?
Alan, NJ
Love to roll back the military but how can we when President Obama ramped up the effort in Afghanistan and then started a no-fly zone in Libya? Which one of the 3 wars do you want to cut first?
Afgan, Alan No kidding, the president Pissed me off deploying a extra 30 thousand to a place the Russians could not win in and they were next door. as far as the no fly zone i feel this is yet another mistake, i could care less if people in Lybia are killing each other, and gas is going up, the cost to us in the long run for me makes that not worth it. if Clinton did not do the same in rawanda where almost a million were killed why lybia.
"Love to roll back the military but how can we when President Obama ramped up the effort in Afghanistan and then started a no-fly zone in Libya?"
How about we cut the number of flag officers (we have more Admirals and Generals in the service right now than we did even at the height of World War II)?
How about we cut the number of staff officers (there are Majors and Lt. Colonels carrying out duties that could be handled by 1st Lieutenants and Captains)?
How about we finally kill programs that serve no purpose in combat and can be handled by other, cheaper equipment (like the F-22 Raptor, an aircraft that has recorded a whopping ZERO kills and is completely unsuitable for the current combat paradigm compared to the F-35)?
Why don't we talk about mothballing a carrier fleet? We have 11 active duty aircraft carriers, more than all the other nations on the planet COMBINED. Nimitz and Enterprise will be retired when the first 2 new Gerald R. Ford class ships comes on-line. Why can't we retire them a little earlier? I mean, even if we took those 2 out of service we still have 9.
My theme today has been we're now in our 10th year of Bush.
If it stinks like a Republican run wealthy takover of America than it is a Republican run wealthy takover of America. And we have a Plutocracy (rule by the wealthy) via Republicans and the Tea Party funded by the wealthy like the Koch Brothers. Ryan is just their tool. No need to use fear, Republicans frighten people quite well with their own rhetoric. Did you see T-Paw's answer to President Obama's launch of his re election campaign. It was all fear. "Be afraid! Be very afraid!" Plutocrats love this.
And the beat goes on...let's not talk about what has to be done, that's too complicated, let's just attack each other on personalities.
You are all so much smarter than each other that you continually point out how little the other knows or understands.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703806304576242612172357504.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/opinion/05brooks.html?_r=2&ref=opinion
I'm sure everyone has read both pieces today and will have spot-on commentary and a critique of both Ryan's proposal and Brooks' analysis...
Dangerfield,
Thank you for posting to allow us to understand and state where we stand. I had not read the articles before. The links presented the plan in Ryan's own words and a pro article supporting it. There was no con article, I will research that myself.
The first site offered Paul Ryan's outline for his vision of how to deal with the debt and deficit. The second from David Brooks was not really a critique offering only praises about Ryan's boldness.
My thoughts are that Ryan's main way of reducing the deficit and eventually the debt is to gut medicare. This is an odd GOP stance since as the FR story above appears to say the GOP is against gutting 500 billion from Medicare. In addition his idea that Medicare becomes a premium support system sounds to me too much like a HSA - Health Savings account. What I mean by that is that HSA's typically will be beneficial for a higher income person than one of lesser means. If Medicare is rationed in this way, will not only the wealthy get fair and decent support? While I might be inclined to agree with the debt commissions idea to raise slightly over time the retirement age, I don't agree with Ryan's pay to play scenario. Anyone see the irony in the Death panel the GOP used against HCR?
As far as Brook's column, although he calls out the passivity of Obama and Boehner, why doesn't he call Ryan out for not supporting the Federal debt commision. From my review, albeit limited, Ryan appears to want to reduce tax rates by cutting deductions and loop holes. I think Ryan should be called out as an idealogue who chose not to vote for the debt commission but now uses some of their very own ideas.
Interestingly for those that deny that some corporations don't pay taxes.....
Ryan - "Tax reform: This budget would focus on growth by reforming the nation's outdated tax code, consolidating brackets, lowering tax rates, and assuming top individual and corporate rates of 25%. It maintains a revenue-neutral approach by clearing out a burdensome tangle of deductions and loopholes that distort economic activity and leave some corporations paying no income taxes at all."
Do you have an opinion on this issue?
I'm not sure that Ryan's proposal is the best one...
I'm not sure whether or not the Plan proposed by President Obama's own debt commission is better.
But, one thing's certain.
Ryan AND the President's debt commission have both put proposals on the table to address the debt issue in an attempt to avert a U.S. sovereign debt crisis.
That's more than the current occupant of the White House has done...isn't it?
Mark-
Thanks for taking the time to read and comment. Brooks Praises Ryan for putting a proposal out there but I don't agree that the article supports the proposal itself, but the fact that it CHALLENGES both parties and frames the argument for the electorate. to quote:
"It also creates the pivotal moment of truth for President Obama. Will he come up with his own counterproposal, or will he simply demagogue the issue by railing against “savage” Republican cuts and ignoring the long-term fiscal realities? Does he have a sustainable vision for government, or will he just try to rise above the fray while Nancy Pelosi and others attack Ryan?
And what about the Senate Republicans? Where do they stand? Or the voters? Are they willing to face reality or will they continue to demand more government than they are willing to pay for?"
I posted Brooks as I saw his as the most intelligent, reasonable and least ideologically driven of the columns analyzing the Ryan proposal I have thusfar read, not as a "critique": that was directed at the denizens of this blog.
My opinion is that the Simpson/Bowles commission clearly states the cold hard reality of our current situation. That our politicians of both stripes have paid little more than lip-service to the hard choices we face and continue to "kick the can" down the road when they have been elected to "grasp the realities with both hands"
Like MB, I don't think the Ryan proposal is the best solution, or maybe even a good one, but it is a proposal and not just rhetoric, and that's a dam sight more than anyone else has had the courage to do to date.
So let's have counter proposals, debate and more debate, but let's all realize that SOMETHING must be done, and that the burdens(s) must be SHARED. The best proposal will be the one that neither party is happy with, the question is will our "leaders" have the courage to as JFK said "...do what is HARD"
I don't have much faith that they will...
Nice post, dangerfield.
If not your best...
It's in the ballpark, for sure.
I'm not given to sentimentality, but...
You'll always be First Read's resident iconoclast, dangerfield.
Where the heck is Exodite Dragon, anyway...?
Will he come up with his own counterproposal, or will he simply demagogue the issue by railing against “savage” Republican cuts and ignoring the long-term fiscal realities?
Good point. Now someone on the left does need to step up. Problem solving wouldn't be easy but at least it would be possible if politics/elections weren't invovled.
LOUD(Liberal Obama Union Democrat) delusional disorder. Characterized by a profoundly delusional sense of entitlement that requires no effort. Unconnected and deception based thought and speech patterns. Psychotic denial even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. As well as acute substance dependence and abuse. Especially other peoples money and tax money. Treatment includes a stay at a tax money detox facility. Long term commitment at a mental health hospital to confront the rigidly entrenched delusions. Finally, lifelong membership in the 12 step program of P.A.(Parasites Anonymous). Additional treatment may be needed from time to time to prevent relapse such as brow beating and an occasional biitch slap.
They were taking hundreds of billions of dollars out of Medicare to pay for a new entitlement, when Medicare itself was insolvent.......the point was you do not take money from a program that cannot pay its own bills, either by reducing inefficiencies or simply taking the money away, and shift the money to a new program and say the new program is paid for, it defies logic.
bush's fault -- that's funny; they are still at it.
Since the great one is in such lockstep with Bush/Cheney on gitmo staying open, trying KSM in a military tribunal, adding 30,000 troops in afganistan, invading Lybia, a sovereign nation without going to congress, why not talk about obama's performance?
Where's the criticism of the great one?
Just say it "George Bush was right!" You will feel so much better after being honest with yourselves.
"Bush/Cheney on gitmo staying open, trying KSM in a military tribunal"
We tried closing Gitmo and wanting to try KSM in a civilian court. Republicans screamed to the heavens (and the media) about it. And neo-cons and Tea party dupes fell for it hook, line and sinker.
Obama couldn't win either way with you lot. So why bother playing your game? It's rigged.
If the Republicans can't offer a "realistic" budget plan they should just shut-up, the country can't balance the budget on the backs of the middle and working class, which is all they have proposed thus far. Military spending cuts, get the hell out of the middle east, tax loop hole closures, investment income tax increases, the end of corporate welfare, I mean damn there are lots of ways to balance the budget other than take money from those that have none, why is it the Republicans think that the wealthy shouldn't be asked to contribute anything? The Republican plans are disingenuous and completely void of fairness or sense of reality, but now that I think about it that's their standard mode of operation. Anyone that thinks the American people will quietly let the GOP steal what they have coming to them while we piss away a billion bucks a week nation building in countries that hate our guts is in for a rude awakening. Stop the needless waste before you ask Americans to suffer, the whole idea of austerity measures directed at the American population before we end needless spending abroad is ridiculous and dangerous.
We know that you do not get compromise without negotiation. Too much chafe in the tea cup for functional governance.
The Repubs can find money to give to the rich by taking from the old and the poor!! Time to remove all Republicans from office!!
demagogue this:
barry is still ineligible to be potus
Sure: Can we get some thorazine for this fella? He seems to have gone off the rails again.
TV ad: “What’s Congressman Joe Sestak done? He voted to gut Medicare, slashing benefits for Pennsylvania seniors."
Interesting......I remember that ad all too well. If you play the video above, you can see that the "source" quoted to back up this ridiculous claim was HR 3590, Vote 165, from 3/21/10. A quick trip to the website for the Clerk of the U. S. House, however, shows the following official record of proceedings that day:
"10:49 P.M. -
On motion that the House agree to the Senate amendments Agreed to by recorded vote: 219 - 212 (Roll no. 165).
http://clerk.house.gov/floorsummary/floor.aspx?day=20100321&today=20110405
I'm sorry, but where's the part about gutting Medicare and slashing benefits for seniors? Like so many bills, probably something hidden somewhere in the fine print of a completely unrelated bill that Congressman Sestak may have been applauded by seniors for his vote - if they had any idea what the vote was actually on.
This is why, however painful they are to watch, tv ads are so effective. How many people actually manage to pause the ad on their tv screen long enought to check the source and then do the research to put it in its proper context?
Come back, Joe - maybe we won't be so gullible next time!
The GOP wouldn't know truth if it walked up and introduced itself. Most of the cuts were to Medicare Advantage--why should the government subsidize private insurance companies to operate a program that was run by the Govt more efficiently and at less cost--and one no traded on the stock exchange, one that didn't spend money running TV ads telling seniors their plan was better, and one that didn't pay CEO's millions in salaries.
Remember, the Democrats control the Senate and the White House. So, in simple match, that is two out of three. So, Democrats let's not get pushed around by the Republicans-Tea Baggers.
People are opening their eyes and they don't want these plans the right has to offer. Let's go ahead and say good-bye to them and let's move on.
Can't wait to see JoAnnaSmith1 cry when Obama is re-elected
Mark, remember way back when the Democrats were saying the Republicans had become a "Regional party"? How'd that work out for you?
Still waiting on you producing the Democratic plan for deficit/debt reduction too Mark. Can we expect that sometime today? Many thanks sweetie.
poor poor delusional JAS1
You neocons are unbelievable. You'll try to spin ANYTHING to make it look like it's Obama's policies and actions that got us into this mess. Get your freakin' heads out of the sand and take a good look around. Demagoguery, you say? Did any of you actually read the article? All those Republican right wingnuts spouting off about cutting Medicare and how bad that would be. Do your homework and find out what would happen if Medicare is cut. Cut military spending? Hell no, because your precious Bush and all his cronies got us into a war and then lied about it. Where were all of you idiots then? So the Repubs were for saving Medicare and now they're not? Which is it? And the corporate fatcats who keep getting richer because of the Repubs are laughing all the way to the bank. Trying to balance the budget by cutting programs for the elderly and poor is shameful. And you neocons defend it and think you have all the answers. No democratic plan, my eye. Who's is charge of the House? Boehner wanted all the power and now he has it. Where's his leadership. Get real.
I still don't understand the claim that Bush "lied" to get us into the war. Did he not recieve intel that suggested that Saddam had WMDs? Wasn't that intel provided, in part, by the previous administration? Didn't all of congress, Dem and Rep, also believe that there were WMDs? and then vote, in accordance with the law to act? Didn't the UN and world community also believe, according to the intel, that there were WMDs?
Is it necessary to slam an American president endlessly, even after history has proven you wrong? And by the way, is it possible that campaigning against the war is one thing but once presented with the safe keeping of the nation(and arguably, the world) as the POTUS, Obama understood that things weren't quite so black and white in terms of war/military? Our governments primary responsibility is to protect us, and to provide an atmosphere where we can prosper. Those are military missions, nothing more. The one place where it is always acceptable for our money to be spent is on defense. Is it not?
Smarty
Let me explain it to you. the "intel" he received was just the opposite. There was talk of "tubes" and "yellow cake", but all were PROVEN wrong, and presented as such. And no, there was no intel provided to the previous adm., but nice try. Congress believed it because that's what Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Libby and Rove told them. Who would've thought they'd lie about something like that, huh?
As far as the black and white thing, Tim Russert interviewed Obama in 2006 and was asked what makes a great president. Answer- "Obviously, most of the time it seems that the president has maybe 10% of his agend set by himself, and 90% of it set by circumstance." So not all things are black and white, but he has not lied about any war.
Do yourself a favor, go see the movie "Fair Game". You will totally understand how this country was hoodwinked by the Bush Adm.
But there are numerous statements and speaches and resolutions made by members of the Clinton administration and Clinton himself, as well as John Kerry, and Hillary Clinton when she was a senator, and Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, way back in the 90's, wherer they themselves claimed that there was WMDs and this would have to be dealt with.
But, I am sure that your information from the "movie" is more accurate.
Numerous statements, speeches and resolutions? I don't think so, smarty. Don't you think if they knew, they would've invaded Iraq, just like Bush did? Again, nice try.
Do you know what the "movie" Fair Game is about, smarty? It's the TRUE accounting of how the Bush Adm. outed Valerie Plame, and EX CIA agent stationed in the Middle East,simply because her husband had the audacity to question Bush and his cronies about the WMD's. And he did that because he was one of the people sent to the Middle East to find out. He came back with nothing. Do you know what your talking about when you open your mouth to speak?
House Republicans propose to trim more than $1 trillion from the deficit over the next decade by cutting Medicaid, a program of public health care coverage for children, pregnant mothers, disabled and poor. How low can you go Teabaggers!! I guess when God said feed my people he was just talking about rich people!!
There's not a single cut to defense spending in Paul Ryan's $4 trillion road to the cure, in fact, he increases defense spending. The road to the cure for the debt is paved on the backs of the elderly, needy children and the disabled while placing even more wealth in the hands of insurance companies. Not sure how people like Ryan can knowingly do so much harm and live with themselves except I think they just don't care. Ryan refuses to look at eliminating the tax breaks for big oil--can't have that. He refuses to look at eliminating the many tax loopholes that would mean lower taxes for those who could use lower taxes. Privatize everything, that's the answer, that way big business can control it all. Time for democrats to take Ryan up on his idea and demagogue the heck out of them. Democrats won't have to lie, they'll just simply point to the truth.
Social security isn't going anywhere. As for LBJ's Great Society, if this country experiences financial failure, the inscription on the country's tombstone will read, "done in by the Great Society."
Anytime able-bodied, able-minded individuals are givenfree stuff that the government takes from hard working, productive, taxpaying Americans, and the government asks for nothing back from those receipients, it's a disaster waiting to happen. Looks like that disaster is happening now.
The FYIGM crowd speaks.
SC: what is it called when you eliminate healthcare to the poor, the elderly, and the disabled while simultaneoulsy increasing spending on the wealthy?
I know, you call it the Republican plan to eliminate the middle class and the poor.
My only question is, who are you going to tax when there is no more middle class and the poor are all dead?
Wrong, it will read "Done in by Capitalistic Greed", RIP.
If our elected officials of either party were serious they would start leading instead of dictating. Give up your salaries and benefits and lead by example instead of cutting programs that provide a safety net for those of us not lucky enough to be millionaires. Actions speak louder than words....get a grip folks...they are screwing all of us for their gain. Show us that you are willing to lead by taking the first cuts yourselves instead of dictating to the electorate.
Legislators like Paul Ryan will still have their government health care when they retire, a nice pension, too, while workers earning $10-$15 an hour all their lives, won't be able to afford food let alone health care and a modest retirement of just not working will be a lost dream.
Jody, if you feel so sorry for them, feel free to pay for their healthcare insurance. No one is stopping you giving hand-outs away.
I'll be busy taking care of my family.
I don't have a single flat-screen TV, a single SUV, and my car has stock rims...you know why? Because the food and health insurance is more important.
I have been around plenty of low income neighborhoods in my work, and have seen plenty of cars with $1000 rims, new $50,000 SUVs and plenty of Flat screens sitting on top of goodwill furniture. Too many people have their priorities backward and I'm sick of providing them what they could have provided themselves.
Q. Why aren't Republicans circumcised?
A. Because there's no end to those pricks!
Q: What's the difference between a Republican and an anal orifice?
A: The first smells much worse and spews much more feces than the other.
Q: What's the difference between a prostitute and a Democrat?
A: A prostitute gives value for the money she takes.