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msnbc.com's Carrie Dann
msnbc.com's Carrie Dann
Tea Party activists gather in the shadow of the Capitol to urge budget cuts.
From msnbc.com's Carrie Dann
As budget negotiations continued inside the halls of Congress Thursday, a gathering of Tea Party activists huddled at a cold outdoor rally on Capitol Hill to send a message to the deal-makers inside:
They're ready to pick a fight.
A few hundred people -- far fewer than the massive rallies seen before last year's midterm elections -- who braved the dreary weather urged lawmakers to push deep cuts to the federal budget even if it results in a temporary shuttering of the government, chanting "Cut it or shut it!" and punctuating cheers with calls to "shut it down!"
"If Harry Reid wants a fight, let's give it to him!" said Rep. Mike Pence (R-IN), one of a parade of conservative lawmakers who made remarks at the event sponsored by the Tea Party Patriots.
Many of the rally's speakers were careful to note that Democrats are "rooting" for a shutdown and that GOP budget-cutters hope to avoid a funding lapse that would turn off the government's lights.
Democratic leaders "want to turn you into their scapegoats and blame the Tea Party for shutting the government down," said Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN).
Rep. Allen West (R-FL) declared, "We are not here to talk about shutting the government down... But if you want to talk about shutting down the government, go over there and talk to Chuck Schumer and Harry Reid and the folks at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue!"
Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) told reporters after his brief remarks to the crowd that a federal closure is undesirable but would not be catastrophic.
"No Republican wants to shut the government down. I don't think anybody here really wants a shutdown," DeMint said, "but we shouldn't be so afraid of a shutdown that we can't make the right decisions right now." He added, "We can't be cowed by this threat."
The preemptive finger-pointing over a potential shutdown likely stems from the scars of the budget fights of the mid-1990s, when the public soured on GOP leaders in the wake of a series of federal closings.
A full federal closure "is not going to be very popular with the American people," warned Clinton-adviser-turned-conservative-commentator Dick Morris, who instead suggested a "targeted shutdown" of agencies -- like the EPA and the National Labor Relations Board -- that are loathed by Tea Party activists.
"We don't have to close down the government. We're going to close down the parts of the government we can't stand!" Morris said.
That sentiment was met with cheers -- as well as a smattering of shouts to "shut it down!"
*** UPDATE *** Here's a dispatch from NBC's Catherine Chomiak:
As the continuing resolution currently funding the government inches closer to its expiration date of April 8, Tea Party activists rallied today for a budget battle. Reps. Steve King (R-IA), Mike Pence (R-IN), Michele Bachmann (R-MN) and Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) fired up the crowd on a dreary day in Washington, D.C., with calls for a fight and threats of a government shutdown.
Congressman Pence, citing the current deficit, debt, and “defiant liberal majority in the Senate” said the time was right “to pick a fight."
“The debt stops here,” he said. “If liberals in the Senate would rather play political games and shut down the government instead of making a small down payment on fiscal discipline and reform, I say, 'Shut it down.'”
Representative and potential Republican presidential candidate Bachmann hit Democrats saying they are hoping for a government shut down. “That’s their plan," Bachmann said. "They want to shut the government down, and they want to turn you into their scapegoat and say, 'It’s the Tea Party’s fault for shutting the government down.'"
Paul urged the Tea Party members to keep up their political involvement. “The fight is just beginning,” he vowed. “Keep their feet to the fire, call them, email them, let them know that you are prepared for America to move forward, but only by balancing the budget and making government smaller.”
In addition to a fight on the budget, King showed support for his fellow House Republican saying, “We need to fight on Mike Pence’s proposal on unfunding (sic) Planned Parenthood… And we need to fight on cutting off the funding that implements Obamacare.”
Bachmann also got loud cheers from the crowd when she proposed sending “a change of address form to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.”
This is something Bachmann has said before and will probably be said again, as she continues to consider a 2012 presidential bid.
Leave a Comment:
Don't think because there are fewer Tea Party members demonstrating that they have lost supporters. They have not. It is because of them that we are seeing so many steps in the right direction. God bless them!
I don't see tea party people refusing (execpt one) their farm subs of
$100,000 or more. That makes them richer than me. I would like to see them trying to make a living on what welfare gives people for living expenses. Some people are on welfare because they don't want to work, but a majority of them are on welfare because they can't find work making enough to pay bills. Even welfare isn't enought to pay bills that's why there are people living on the streets even though they get welfare. We have alot of gas stations and party stores owned by people from other countries that don't pay taxes for 7 years then they pass the business on to other people in their family who don't have to pay taxes. I want that kind of business for myself. They don't hire americans to work in their stores they hire only family that come here from their countries. I know because my daughter lost a job from one of these businesses when they bought it from an American. Not because she didn't do here job but because she wouldn't work 80 hours a week with out getting our right (from labor unions) for time and a half for over 40 hours. I believe that our goverment should help us first and if there is anything left over then everyone else.
Let's role up the sleeves and start hacking...defense, welfare, foreign aid, food stamps, farm subsidies, HUD, free child care, illegal alien support.... etc etc etc. The list is endless. Most of all get the federal government the heck out of the education systems and cut their law enforcement agencies in half. The freaking agencies are tripping all over each other trying to bust the same people for the same crimes.
All this crap about playing favorites with spending or cutting is ridiculous. We have $1.7 trillion to eliminate and that is assuming we put a hiring and spending freeze on the federal government for at least a decade. NOTHING is going to not be hit hard so just get used to it. Everything "unfunded" is going to get eliminated as well as many that are funded will be downsized.
"Charity", "Defense" and "Security" will be completely redefined in this country and will not resemble anything you see today. All three are totally UNFUNDED and unaffordable to the tune of trillions a year. The best thing all the political parties can do at this point is get the heck out of the way and let some civilian groups take care of it after some extensive independent civilian audits of all the agencies. The sooner we realize the federal government is the problem and not the solution the faster we can move forward.
We should also have learned this is the fate of ALL highly centralized governments. They borrow their way out of existence. We have to cut the connection between the voters and borrowing which means move the taxes and programs back to the states which are bound by budgets like the founders set up originally. This whole mess would never have happened on a state level. The states are self regulating and cannot borrow to support wants they cannot afford. They simply have to figure out ways to get by with what they have which is the way it should be. This borrowing to support a "wish list" is insane.
"Cut it or Shut it!!!!!!!!!!!!!" .... I love this as a 2012 campaign slogan !! After all, TEA PARTY also stands for TAX PAYERS !!
And the unions intra and interstate didn't buy the protests in Wisconsin with millions of dollars and damage to the capitol building?
Nothing more than revisionist liberal lying and to suit your position. I'm sure in your circles all-out lying is a fact of you existance, but the hypocracy is not lost to anybody who is outside your circles, can spot and judge in the way they choose, not you!
I smell FEAR, not on the Tea Party side but the "status quo" side, mainly democrat. The more names you call-us, the corporate conections you assign to-us, the assigned term "racist" you tag-us just indicates your fear. Perhaps you should consider that all of this you are assigning to millions of your neighbors, co-workers and fellow Americans! Seems a very-ignorant plan to insult and make enemies of the for- mentioned citizens and voters of the country a winning stategy!
Nothing will motivate-us against the destructive policies introduced by democrats and republicans alike more than what is occuring now, no party affiliations withstanding! We choose to put republicans in democrat seats becuase we understood no common-ground with the democrat party currently controlled by the far-left. And that far-left seeks to sever the head of the Tea Party which has none. That is your most un-nerving factor of us, we can independently without any party support defeat your candidates. Disturbing to your psyche, not to be able to control isn't-it?
We will be present in 2012 in much larger numbers than-in 2010, and you know how that turned-out. So, your strategy that your sticking-with shows what true " egg-heads" and "a-holes" can accomplish when they put their mighty-intellects together.
We look forward to the battle, only this time no ambiguity about what your candidates represent and easily defined, can't wait!
The working class says bring it on. You should not have gotten in bed with the right wing corporate special interests at cost to the working class. You have lost your credibility. The placards at your rallies tell more about who you are than any thing you say here.
We do not have to accept yours or RINO, Liberal, etc. description of what we represent, because you have no idea! That's your problem, no idea's just sit and allow others define you by your robot-like responses. Heard-it all before and in 2010 we won! Working-class another term for the lazy demanding benefits from their neighbors who are supposed to smile and say thank you for stealing from them. Brought-it already, skunked your side and will be able to do-it again.
Look at your precious polls, it ain't going your way if you believe them. But I do not have to, I have momentum and knowledge-it can be done.
I still defend your right to be wrong, I just do not support it. Keep on being ignorant and unAmerican.
Well put, over 1/2 the "working" class does not even pay federal income taxes and sucks up huge amounts "free to them" of entitlements and services. Specifically the "lower" working class who pays nothing is who she is talking about. They belly up to the entitlement bar for another round of freebies then elect the same corrupted incumbent all over again to financially terrorize the taxpayers... but their entitlements are safe as is their desire to not pay any taxes.
The entire lower working class could care less if the deficit is $1.7 trillion or $10.7 trillion. They don't pay anything and the larger the deficit the more free stuff they get. CUT CUT CUT then turn the rest of what is left back to the states so this crap does not happen again.
I am working class and I do not know anyone who is working and not paying income tax. They may have deductions like interest on their homes or for children and so on but they do pay in. I think you are making up stuff to justify your argument. I did see a article seeded to the vine that said 3/4 of corporations are not paying income tax. So, I think that trumps your jumping on the working class. I bet you don't pay income tax either because you probably have write offs, like so many other people do. Want to get rid of all corporate write offs and tax breaks while you stick it to the working class?
I have to ask you Ann, whwere do you get this no tas paid thing again? I know that I have a percentage of taxes deducted every check, and at tax time try to take as many exemptions and credits as legal to increase my tax return or at least limit the amount owed over the already deducted amount annually by the Feds.
I only gross 35K to 55K depending on the year. So if I can barely cover my nut with this, and I do NOT live extravegently, what the hell are you saying? That poor as people below poverty ioncome levels are to blame for the Budget and Economic problems in the US?
REALLY?!>?
Jennifer.... if you "pay in" but then the federal government gives it all back.... you are NOT paying taxes. Paying taxes means the government actually "KEEPS" a portion of your money so you get significantly less back than you paid in or have to send them a check in addition to all your withholdings. That is "paying taxes". All you are talking about is a deduction from your check that is quickly returned to you so you do not pay any taxes. That is called a liability to the country and its spending needs. You use things and pay nothing.
With Earned Income Tax Credits over half of them actually profit from not paying anything. Please read the articles below from USA Today, Huffington Post etc. There are literally several pages if you Google "47% don't pay taxes". Oh.. that 47% is "households" so that is WAY over half the "wage earners". There might be two parents and 3 teenagers all earning wages and none of them paying any taxes. You also have to include all the people that are not even filing.
The entire problem with the exemptions, credits etc etc is the people who are not paying taxes are deciding those laws by a majority vote. So they vote themselves to not pay any taxes and receive a ton of entitlements services and defense for nothing. Some poor slob has to borrow the money to pay for them and then pay the interest as well as their share for all those things. NOBODY should be paying "nothing" for all that.
The problem with these people having the voting majority is they have continuously raised the exemptions, credits and ceilings from 17.9 people not paying taxes in 1984 to over 47% in 2009. You can't "not pay" and vote what to do with all the money as well as create debt for your needs. It is like letting your 3 children run the family finances while you earn all the money. They are a majority over 2 parents.... fair is fair
PLEASE read these below...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2010-04-16-editorial16_ST_N.htm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/07/income-tax-47-of-american_n_529059.html
Deloitte Tax and the Heritage Foundation?
So there goes the argument that these poor slobs pay nothing.
Sounds like an opinion piece. Which is just that. An opinion.
notsojingo...
The term "not too extravagantly" is quite subjective when someone else is forced to give their income to pay all your taxes for services, entitlements and defense so you can keep your lifestyle above what you would if you actually contributed to all those things you use. A system where one wage earner is forced to upgrade the lifestyle of another who contributes nothing is called communism. The question is how much or my hard earned money many I keep without lowering your " not too extravagantly" high lifestyle.... comrade? What is used as a measurment where your lifestyle is more important than my hard earned money? Why does your desire for a better lifestyle have to come from my earnings?
The reason the "poor" as you say are the problem is you cannot have people who do not pay taxes deciding what to spend those taxes on. Why would they care if the national debt is $14 trillion or $114 trillion? They pay nothing and could care less. All they know is they want more stuff and a better lifestyle and someone else is going to pay for it.
You might as well hand your credit card to your neighbor but you keep making the payments for whatever they want. That is what the taxpayers are doing.
I am not sure why you and Jennifer fail to grasp the self defeating danger of letting the liabilities run the country and its finances. You can't be in charge of spending someone else's money. If you can't pay anything fine... but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Why does your desire for a better lifestyle have to come from my earnings?
They do not, I guarantee you. The mother of my daughter is on of the tax-free scum you describe, and I pay over a grand a month supporting my girl. I also do NOT get my federal taxes back. I absolutely know there are scammers in this country, just as I know that the Richest are the Worst. So you argument is unbalanced.
From your link, 04/ 7/10 05:38 PM:
Sounds as though everybody is in on the guilt. Just that the wealthy are doing it with more than enough left over to fly to the Hawaiin Islands every year. I do not begrudge them that. Just wish we 'poor slobs' could even afford to go to relatives funerals out of state...I can't afford to take a day off when work is offered myself or the foreclosure notices start coming again or the State threatens to take my license and registration.
Glad you do so well as to feel the need to atack the lower and lower=middle income families with such fervor, my brother.
Peace
Nobody called anyone "scum" and my life is FAR from a bundle of joy. It is simply a financial argument of people who pay nothing having the ability to spend the money of others. It is an honest and humble existence at times to be a liability but it is plain arrogant to spend money that is not yours. It is beyond comprehension to "demand' that money.
"Everyone" is not in on the guilt. It is the lower classes and the wealthy who are screwing everyone. The lower classes elect the criminals so they don't have to pay taxes and can spend taxpayer money on themselves. The wealthy are also happy to see crooks elected because it means they don't pay either. The taxpayers are the poor suckers not wealthy enough to lobby and not enough of us to outvote the lower classes.
We had the largest financial meltdown in global history and were left with the worst unemployment since 1938. To the astonishment of the taxpayers all the lower classes did was reelect the same incumbents that orchestrated, assisted and covered up the meltdown. There should have been impeachments with tens of millions protesting instead of bailouts to the thieves and job security for their government conspirators. This is what a lower class majority voting gets us.
I do not "attack" the lower classes any more than a mother "attacks' her children as she watches them go down the toilet taking others with them. I do not expect such greed from my children nor do I expect it from my fellow citizens regardless of their financial status. I guess many, perhaps yourself, would watch them go down the toilet because they don't want to hurt their feelings. The "victim" mentality is killing the country.
My need is only to get a balanced budget at this point. We are not going to do that with the lower classes not paying anything and controlling the vote. Getting feelings hurt is going to be the least of our worries as we move through cutting $1.7 trillion in unfunded spending to people addicted to a deficit worse than heroin. It will get very ugly as moving down after having lived beyond your means always does. The lower classes and wealthy will be hit the worst and that is as it should be.
Adams101
If you will agree that all the upper income must give up their tax write offs, along with corporations tax write offs, I think that middle the class might go for that. Why?, because the budget will be balanced much sooner with the wealthy giving up their perks and write offs. I don't think business will go for your plan. Do you? So why just bring up the working class income?
He has a Boehner against them, apparently.
Have you noticed when we see pictures of tea party gatherings-no minorities!!!And they wonder why we call them bigots!!!The extreme wealthy must be having a laugh at our expense-they are piting middle class against middle class-it is exactly what they want.Not content to control 90% of the wealth they want it all.Anyone who listens to the drivel of Michelle Bachmann has to be either brain-dead or living in a parallel universe.Michelle bring it on in 2012-we will burn your A$$ you betcha!!!!
Have you noticed when we see pictures of tea party gatherings-no minorities!!!And they wonder why we call them bigots!!!"
Yes those of you who see skin color FIRST and make ignorant statments like the above with absolutely not real facts to back up your asinine claims. So I guess it's safe to say that when you see a NAACP rally they must too all be racists?
Do you see how dumb your logic or lack thereof is?
Hey tea party why dont you ask your corporate overlods why 75% of them are not paying tax as well.Take your paws off the working classes and go after the ones that by paying what they owe will reduce our deficit by a huge chunk.All you know is to cut expenditure.We need to raise income as well via legit corporate taxes
This rabid bickering from both sides is exactly why this country is in such a $#&#hole. The only people anyone hear are the exremists on the left and right side of the nation's political spectrum, and they're too busy yelling at anyone and everyone who thinks differently than they do to do any actual LISTENING. To make matters worse, since they're the only ones being heard, politicians go out of their way to please them. Never mind the fact that these loud extremists are only a small portion of the country's population and couldn't give a damn about anyone else other than themselves and their cohorts.
We keep getting bounced back and forth between one extremist view to another and nothing gets done. The people in power who listen to these narrow minded idiots spend all their time pushing that group's narrow view of things while also trying to undo what the other guys did while in power, and the guys out of power who listen to the other group of narrow minded idiots spend all their time trying to make the guys in power look bad so they can take over at the next election and do the exact same thing that the guys they're trying to pull down did. Compromise is seen as a dirty word and nothing gets done unless whoever's in power forces it through, regardless of the negative impact.
Retarded isn't a strong enough word to describe our current political reality, and a lot of you on this thread are partly to blame. I see nothing but yelling and name calling and very little actual discussion about what can and can't be done to actually FIX things. You're so concerned about making sure your guys' side is the WINNER that you are completely ignoring the fact that there isn't going to BE a winner with the way things are currently going.
Majority rule while preserving minority rights. That's the only way democracy can work, and you're all forgetting the second half of that phrase. You might as well be Nazis, interring anyone who isn't of your race or doesn't believe in your creed. It's ridiculous.
I think cutting $1.7 trillion in unfunded spending and a complete federal spending, hiring and expansion freeze is going be a bit "extreme" to some people dependent on it. Don't you? There is not a boatload of compromise there. We simply take EVERYTHING that is "unfunded" and cut it. Holding hands and singing Kumbaya is not going to help us cut close to $2 trillion. It is called roll up the sleeves and dive in. If you can't hack it then get out of the way. It is going to get ugly and we don't have 20 years to spread it over.
A democracy is nothing more than "mob rule" or one group oppressing and robbing another by majority rule. Well the majority don't want to pay any taxes and want entitlements, services and defense. The "minority" which are the "taxpayers" rights are being completely trampled on.
At some point, sooner than most would dream, the creditors are going to cut us off and literally tell us what to cut and when to have it done by. Everyone seems to think we can lollygag along forever pretending someone is going to pay back $14 trillion plus dollars or $200K per household. Once the wealthy are done moving all the corporations out of the country they will let it collapse. So you can argue about trying to cut a few programs all you want but the wealthy/corporations are already leaving. They see the writing on the wall that we simply cannot get it done.....so take your time.
This is specifically why the founders built a decentralized Republic and not a highly centralized Democracy.
@Adams101
Do we need to make massive cuts in spending? Absolutely. Do we need to cut more than what the Democrats originally proposed? Of course. Is the Republican plan to take a massive axe to programs and departments the best way of doing this? Absolutely not.
Our country's been in debt for decades, and it'll still be in debt decades from now, even IF we implemented the Republican's most aggressive cuts. The sense of impending doom that many right-wingers try to convey is completely unfounded and is liable to get us into more trouble trying to resolve this issue quickly instead of correctly. Sure, we need to make cuts and many of them will hurt, but we aren't in such dire straits that we can't take the time to do things RIGHT. You have a patient who's deathly ill because of a gangrenous toe...do you take an axe to his leg, or do you evaluate the actual problem and surgically amputate the diseased toe?
Economists have said that the Democrat's original plan didn't go far enough. However, they've also said that the depth and breadth of the cuts the Republicans are proposing and the speed at which they're supposed to be implemented are liable to have a seriously negative impact on the fragile recovery and will likely do more harm than good...all to score political points with a small demographic of voters. Never mind the negative social impact this will have on people who legitimately rely on many programs on the chopping block. What good does bringing down our national debt do if it plunges our country into a state of social and financial ruin?
The people in charge need to take a serious look at our problems and make the changes that make sense...not just the changes that score them political points...and make them as soon as they can be made. There are plenty of easy wins that are currently in limbo because both sides are choosing to take the "all or nothing" approach with the more controversial cuts acting as the log jam, which is beyond idiotic. Take the small step now so that things can get rolling.
Then, once the easy wins are out of the way, start reforming programs and departments so that they can operate on less funding and close loopholes that allow unscrupulous individuals/corporations to game the system. If this isn't resolved, we'll simply find ourselves back where we started, with billions lost to waste and inefficiency. Once this avenue of changes has been exhasted, THEN we can start looking at the hard cuts and figure out a way to make them in a way that makes sense.
Our government isn't going to collapse tomorrow...we can take the time to do things, right. Taking a hatchet to anything and everything that isn't nailed down as a first response measure isn't a smart way of doing things, and may well be a recipe for disaster.
"Good news, ma'am. The operation was a success...but the patient died"
Did you know that Michelle Bachman's and Jim Demint's salaries are paid by ALL THE PEOPLE OF THIS NATION, not just the ones who believe their insane ramblings? What I am saying is that while they are on Fox, or at TP rallies telling your neighbor that YOU are their enemy, they are getting paid by YOU.
go to Spence lawfirm online and tell Jerry just how it makes you feel when congressmen and women YOU PAY use that time they aresupposed to be working to publicly DEMONIZE you and the rest of the TAX PAYING eople of this nation.If you are gay, lesbian, atheist, liberal, progressive, or any TAX PAYING AMERICAN who has been slandered publicly by Republican politicians while they were supposed to be working then you can join in a class action lawsuit.
I cant call my boss a communist and still keep my job, politicians shouldnt be able to either!!!
This has probably been posted, but I look at these pictures and judging by the age of the attendees I cant help but laugh when they stop receiving their social security checks, medicare subsidies, veterans benefits etc etc. Stupid meet really stupid.
As usual the teabaggers show their ignorance on the issues.
They scream "shut it down" the same time they blame Dems for it! LOL
A shutdown...yeah... great idea. NOT. Do those idiots have even a clue as to how much a shutdown would cost?? NO, THEY DONT. And WASTED money at that.
they can't be bothered with details like actual information and facts....much better just to hold a sign and shout....they gotta get "their" country back....somebody must've taken it! maybe Bush could look under the desk for it like those made up WMD.....
Hu's your daddy, libdrones.
Not the guys playing footsies in the Men's Room, fo sho.
I am a baby boomer bring fellow Americans some incite. In the 1960s we learned about the Nazi Party and cold war propaganda. In the 1970s and 80s, I learned first hand about illogical arguments used to dupe susceptible others into following an organization's agenda. I learned how to identify and red flag elements of illogical argument I heard or read. In the 2000s I began seeing an upsurge in domestic U.S. use of the same, illogical arguments, especially from some radio talk show hosts, the far right wing extremists, Israeli media or lobbyists, and in a boom from the Bush Jr. Faith-Based Initiative of 2004 funded with over $2 billion in federal tax payer dollars, faith-based politics hit America with illogical argument and some faith-based legislation, and political lobbyists. IMHO, the current crescendo in illogical argument is probably due to an exploitation of fears and uncertainty. Far right wing extremist organizations increase their memberships, for example, in such times.
Generally, if you hear or read rhetoric which includes words that evoke fear, hate, bigotry, sensationalism, emotionalism, guilt, religion, racism, and circular argument, for examples, you are likely being dumb downed or duped. Change the radio dial or change the TV channel to unbiased journalistic reporting. What do all of the illogical argument sources have in common? Money, plain and simple. But the question is what you want to be. Do you want to be labeled dumb downed? The quality of what you read or listen to makes the difference.
good insight, I am of the same era. The thing to follow up with what you say is that as we are lead by these "illogical arguments" we seem to have become a bunch of sheep and we fall in line and just adapt to the changes that occur through these "illogical argument". We vote in reaction to fears and media driven concerns. We vote radically one way then the other to try and force change. We vote based on a party that has specific beliefs, we blindly follow and worship these radical right wing talk show hate mongers and vote with emotion and fear. We need to begin to actually start weading through the mud slinging, he said this and she said that stuff and demand our candidates run based on how they can make America a better place. I know it sounds simple and ideological but I pride myself in voting for who I believe is the best candidate and who I believe would make a diff. I do not vote for a party or follow any one groups beliefs. How is it possible to think that repubs or dems always have the right answer so we just vote like sheep?
We simply try not to. For me it was leaving the GOP when Bush Jr. sent U.S. troops to Iraq. As a Viet Nam vet, I considered that a huge mistake and I started questioning the rhetoric coming out of his White House staff. I then became an independent voter, like yourself, and stepped up my monitoring. After I identify illogical arguments in any rhetoric, I red flag it and then look for confirmation. Once I get confirmation that I am right, I cut that source out of my attention. I have actually talked with people who think that those same radio talk show hosts are talking politics. That isn't politics. That is rant. Good luck with your discerning ways. I now believe that America needs a required curriculum addition of at least one class of philosophy in our public education system.
So, one question: When the DEEP CUTS are made are you gonna whine and cry that it is Obama's fault when your benefits and services are cut? Are you going to accept the fact that you demanded radical cuts and it is going to affect you, your kids and their kids. All of the teachers getting laid off, the cuts are going to be descretionary and they will cut critical services like education. Of course we will leave NASA alone to go where no man has gone before, and never will go! I agree spending is out of control but there needs to be some smart cuts made, we need our politicians to get off of their high horse and stop feeling entitled, they are public servants not lords or as proven in the last several months they are not leaders either.
Amen to this. We can't sacrifice the future of the country in order to score political points, today. Spending needs to be curbed, but we can't sacrifice our children's futures to balance that account book. We can't force them to accept sub-par education to fix the fiscal irresponsibility of the select few. We can't condemn them to unbreathable air and undrinkable water in order to please a vocal, radical, minority. Turn off the political talk show hosts and click away from the political extremist websites and think things through for yourself, for once.
I can only hope all those that Voted for Harry Reid can live with theirselves every day and may every one of their days be miserable.
Budget cuts are coming, but there is a fine line where too much too soon could have negative impact on our national economic recovery. How would any one of us like to be in a position of accountability making these decisions should our timing be wrong? As an independent voter I refuse to vote for any politician who blocks reaching across the aisle, negotiating and compromising, as a means of functional governance for our country. U.S. Congressman Paul Ryan, IMHO, is responsible for the GOP standoff, fulfilling his commitment to his following, who I am suspecting as having been dumbed down with illogical far right wing extremist rhetoric. IMHO, he may be in political bed with Wisconsin's GOP Governor Walker, whose budget legislation is currently under checks and balances judicial review.
When Bush Sr went into Kuwait, the USA rallied around such a noble action. Upon discovering the fact that Iraq had repeatedly warned Kuwait to cease and desist from stealing oil by horizontal drilling into Iraq sovereign or face repurcussions, it became clear that we were just supporting Big Oil, the Saudi Family Oil Friends of the Bushes, and actually had taken arms up against a sovereign nation. Not defending Saddam, OUR WACKJOB empowered with arms and 'WMDs' against Iran, our FORMER propped up nation, but the picture began to clear and my vision of the Big Game really improved. Something IS rotten in Denmark!
Good Luck in our Hope to EVER have an election which is not overwhelmingly filled with shills of Major Arms, Cemical/Medical, Energy and Banking Interests. Even if they are sincere, The Rules will be spelled out to them clearly in short order.
And nothing will Change that. Except the end of 'civilization' as we know it. Thank You.
Peace
Nice discussion. guys. I like it when you are really trying to discuss a problem with ideas to help solve it.
I was at work today and someone stole 7 radios that were in my office over the weekend (I hate theives, especially when they are most likely my coworkers). My gas pump broke on the way home and it is only Monday. I am lucky, I still have a job and a husband, who is pissed off right now because of the car, but he still hasn't run off.
Serously, why does the right not give a damn about the working class? Why can't our politicians work together to do the right thing? I think that we are being pushed to the limit here. It is a shame and a disgrace. Enough is enough!
you are being manipulated through narrow rhetoric and fear tactics, tea party faithful....stop voting against your own best interests.
Not only have the people who joined the Tea Party going down the wrong tract but they are the ones who will suffer, like the rest of the seniors, if Ryan and other far right fools in congress get their way.
the right thing is to quit spending and balance the federal budget just like your family's budget.
Bad analogy. The government can choose to increase its income to whatever levels it needs, and it can print its own money; neither of which your family can do independently.
The right thing to do is to sue the thieves that stole the money to reclaim it, not to punish the rest of society and reward the criminals. The Tea Party is simply trying to make the thieves untouchable.
What thieves? If someone broke the law report them. Where is your evidence?
Paul, govt does not need to print money to make income reach a level, it needs to live within it's means like you and me.
Now that the wealthy and greedy thieves have bankrupted the country, the right says you low lifes down and the bottom need to live within your means. What needs to happen here is the bastards need to give some of it back. The greedy have ruined our country and instead of putting the blame on the middle class and poor, they need to get down on their knees and ask for forgiveness for what they have done and continue to do.
It can raise its income any time it needs to. And it can print its own money to pay off any and all debt. Nice regurgitation of a stuck-on-stupid talking point though. It doesn't "NEED" to live within its means like ordinary people. It has powers that they do not.
It can you are right, but the ones who continue to do so will be voted out of office. Review November 2010 elections. The power exists, but there are citizens who are fed up with taxes and wasteful spending. They will support elected officials who campaign on a platform of change and financial constraint.
Jennifer, I employ alot of middle class citizens. They pay taxes. I pay taxes. I support the down and out through my church. If you are saying the elected officials have bankrupt the country I agree. They are the ones passing the budget in DC. Look at the financial status of many states in this country, who put them in that situation?
dontgivemethepeguin
It is good that you care about the poor. That is what Jesus was about. I also think that balancing the budget is important; What I do not think is fair however, is that the corporations and the wealthy, who were the ones who are responsible for the mismanagement and the greed that bankrupt us, are getting a free ride from the right. They are the ones who need to give back or at least share in the pain. That does not appear to be the right's approach however.
I have to ask - What is the value system of the right, especially the religous right? What do you think Jesus would think of the greed?
Exactly Jennifer, what this is really about is the wealthy stealing from the poor and middle class and then asking them to clean up their mess. The only reason we need to make budget cuts is because some very greedy and corrupt individuals created a financial crisis. I don't think we should demonize all corporations, but we should find those individuals responsible and make them pay for our budget crisis.
The right is like the guy who stole your car whining that he was going to have to pay to give you a ride to work.
How are corporations and the wealthy responsible for the mismanagement and greed that bankrupt us? It is politician elected by you and me who are responsible for the shortfall in the US budget. The wealthy and corportations arer only living by the laws that are passed in DC.
The shortfall in the budget is because the government can't collect enough taxes to pay for it. People who don't make money don't pay taxes. So the more the individual is bankrupted by corrupt corporations (and not all corporations are corrupt) the less money our government has to spend. These specific individuals who sold risky loans as no risk and those who manipulated the stock market are responsible for this and they should be made to pay. Instead we're being asked to give up our childrens education to pay for this theft.
what? how about the employees of the corps who are paying taxes from their wages paid to them by the corps? Small businesses employee alot of citizens also and they pay taxes. where are no risk loans?
Individuals will never be comparable to the wealth garnered by corporations, especially the largest. Manufacturing base down, taxes down. A service industry-based nation can never survive indefinitely, expecially with multiple wars. W/out active wars, we still use the largest chunk of our budget for the Killing Machine.
The old adage about "follow the money" should be applied to the Tea Party. Since the ultra wealthy Koch Brothers are the financial backers of the "grass roots" movements, ask yourself why. I know they would not be involved (with their money but no publicity) unless they stand to profit from it. Ask the simple questions (greed, influence, control) and the answers seem simple as well. The Tea Party wants 100% employment but they wants us all working at minimum wage.
Did everyone else notice all the white and grey heads at the rally, screaming that the government should be shut down. If only the shutdown had included the Social Security and Medicare administrators...then those greedy geezers would be shouting a different tune.
By Golly, We Did!
And They Would!!!
"Must a government be too strong for the liberties of its people or too weak to maintain its own existence.
-Abraham Lincoln
They won in a mid-term election! what was the turnout across the country!
This is 1996 all over again and don't be surprised if they won't try to impeach him?