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msnbc.com's Carrie Dann
msnbc.com's Carrie Dann
Tea Party activists gather in the shadow of the Capitol to urge budget cuts.
From msnbc.com's Carrie Dann
As budget negotiations continued inside the halls of Congress Thursday, a gathering of Tea Party activists huddled at a cold outdoor rally on Capitol Hill to send a message to the deal-makers inside:
They're ready to pick a fight.
A few hundred people -- far fewer than the massive rallies seen before last year's midterm elections -- who braved the dreary weather urged lawmakers to push deep cuts to the federal budget even if it results in a temporary shuttering of the government, chanting "Cut it or shut it!" and punctuating cheers with calls to "shut it down!"
"If Harry Reid wants a fight, let's give it to him!" said Rep. Mike Pence (R-IN), one of a parade of conservative lawmakers who made remarks at the event sponsored by the Tea Party Patriots.
Many of the rally's speakers were careful to note that Democrats are "rooting" for a shutdown and that GOP budget-cutters hope to avoid a funding lapse that would turn off the government's lights.
Democratic leaders "want to turn you into their scapegoats and blame the Tea Party for shutting the government down," said Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN).
Rep. Allen West (R-FL) declared, "We are not here to talk about shutting the government down... But if you want to talk about shutting down the government, go over there and talk to Chuck Schumer and Harry Reid and the folks at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue!"
Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) told reporters after his brief remarks to the crowd that a federal closure is undesirable but would not be catastrophic.
"No Republican wants to shut the government down. I don't think anybody here really wants a shutdown," DeMint said, "but we shouldn't be so afraid of a shutdown that we can't make the right decisions right now." He added, "We can't be cowed by this threat."
The preemptive finger-pointing over a potential shutdown likely stems from the scars of the budget fights of the mid-1990s, when the public soured on GOP leaders in the wake of a series of federal closings.
A full federal closure "is not going to be very popular with the American people," warned Clinton-adviser-turned-conservative-commentator Dick Morris, who instead suggested a "targeted shutdown" of agencies -- like the EPA and the National Labor Relations Board -- that are loathed by Tea Party activists.
"We don't have to close down the government. We're going to close down the parts of the government we can't stand!" Morris said.
That sentiment was met with cheers -- as well as a smattering of shouts to "shut it down!"
*** UPDATE *** Here's a dispatch from NBC's Catherine Chomiak:
As the continuing resolution currently funding the government inches closer to its expiration date of April 8, Tea Party activists rallied today for a budget battle. Reps. Steve King (R-IA), Mike Pence (R-IN), Michele Bachmann (R-MN) and Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) fired up the crowd on a dreary day in Washington, D.C., with calls for a fight and threats of a government shutdown.
Congressman Pence, citing the current deficit, debt, and “defiant liberal majority in the Senate” said the time was right “to pick a fight."
“The debt stops here,” he said. “If liberals in the Senate would rather play political games and shut down the government instead of making a small down payment on fiscal discipline and reform, I say, 'Shut it down.'”
Representative and potential Republican presidential candidate Bachmann hit Democrats saying they are hoping for a government shut down. “That’s their plan," Bachmann said. "They want to shut the government down, and they want to turn you into their scapegoat and say, 'It’s the Tea Party’s fault for shutting the government down.'"
Paul urged the Tea Party members to keep up their political involvement. “The fight is just beginning,” he vowed. “Keep their feet to the fire, call them, email them, let them know that you are prepared for America to move forward, but only by balancing the budget and making government smaller.”
In addition to a fight on the budget, King showed support for his fellow House Republican saying, “We need to fight on Mike Pence’s proposal on unfunding (sic) Planned Parenthood… And we need to fight on cutting off the funding that implements Obamacare.”
Bachmann also got loud cheers from the crowd when she proposed sending “a change of address form to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.”
This is something Bachmann has said before and will probably be said again, as she continues to consider a 2012 presidential bid.
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I agree they do want to shut it down. It comes back to the party of no. It is alot harder to come up with ideas that work for the regular working man. When all you can think about is yourself it makes other ideas harder to come up with. Since SS is not an entitlement we pay into it. Helping those with less to eat and have a roof over their head is a bad thing. The measure of a great country is graded on how they respond to the less fortunate, The elderly, the sick, and our own people when they face a natural disaster. On these issues the teabaggers fall short. The morals they flaunt in our face are not really better morals after all. I would maybe have more respect for them if they would have come out of the closet when G. W. Bush spent our surplus and then started this big budget mess. All the outsourcing of our jobs by American companies during his term. Thats something unAmerican especially when is seems like most of those jobs went to communist China. If companies would have done that in the 60's they would have gone broke because nobody would have bought their products. So we can raise our tax base and put Americans to work by bringing our jobs back home. Jobs Jobs Jobs This was all you heard about last year during the election. The 61 billion the teabaggers want to cut would cost 750,000 to 1,000,000 jobs. The cry baby in the house said deal with it.
Since Johnson lumped Social Security into the general fund with all the other tax money there has not been a surplus. The "alleged" one with Clinton was nothing but moving money from trust funds like Social Security into spending accounts. So you can say there was a surplus in the general accounting but hundreds of billions missing from Social Security or you could say all the Social Security money is there but we had a deficit. It is just a Peter to Paul with the spreadsheets.
Jobs that are paid for with deficit spending are not a plus. It is simply charity by extortion. You take money unwillingly from one group to hand to another group. The paying group is forced to borrow with interest to pay the other group salaries, benefits and retirements. This doubles the principal every 20 years.
Ornamental jobs like these on the backs of the taxpayers are simply financial insanity. The minority that pay taxes cannot afford to "borrow" to support anyone.
I have to wonder where all these balanced budget fanatics were for the last 10 years? Were they in a coma or what? Now, as they push for more tax breaks for the corporations and the wealthy, they want to 'Shut it Down" if they don't get the cuts to middle income programs they want. The far right is EVIL, not good Americans and deserve to become extinct or just disappear. In short, they are just not nice, are not good Christians and are NOT looking out the working class. GO AWAY!
Well said!!! HERE! HERE!
The guy that came up with the Reagan tax cuts was on 60 minutes awhile back and said that both parties are guilty of saying things that are not true. He said there was know way cutting spending alone could balance the budget. There is not that much excess there. That limites the options a bit. I worked during the Clinton years and made it just fine on the tax rate as it was then. At our current tax rate it is the lowest it has been since the 50's. We are not over taxed. It is evident to me that when we come out of this mess caused by the Republicans that our taxes will probably go up. I know they can find some waste to cut in Washington. The 61 billion they want to cut will cost 750,000 to 1,000,000 jobs. That is not okay with me. The election year cry was jobs jobs jobs. I have yet to see one job bill or even hear any ideas other than the old ones that don't work. I would have more respect for the teabaggers if they would have come out of the closet when G.W.Bush spent our surplus and then started this mess we are in including alot of this deficit. We need to bring our jobs home from overseas. It might be the patriotic thing to not buy products made in China or Mexico either. We need to let these companies know they need to bring our jobs home.
I would be willing to bet these tea BAGGERS recieve all kind of government subsidies (welfare) through huge farm subsidies...military welfare (building things we dont need) AND (fighting endless wars cooked up to make money)....and even checks from the government as aid to children with disabilities. You should all know that these baggers are just a faction of the republican dictatorship ...all formed to help their cause. The REAL reason for this group is to stir emotions in people...so they are swayed to vote for fake conservatives (who dont exist). The whole idea behind it all is to demolish any other party in opposition. Think about it. They have been able to stir up many groups in the voting population...for single causes that appeal to them. Churches are one of these groups. These people are blinded to the coming dictatorship. One single ruling by the NEW supreme court took away the voting power of the American people by allowing corporations to buy elections. That really WAS one of the few things corporations had to worry about...our vote. No worry anymore. Once they do away with minimum wages...40 hour workweeks...no overtime pay...no vacations...no retirement...no social security...no free elections..NO FREE PRESS...we have the complete dictatorship. When Hitler did good things for the German economy...it won the peoples hearts...and then it all turned sour....He turned out to be an anti-Christ. This is what is coming. Dont let the BAGGERs throw terms around like...."Socialism." Jesus Christ was a socialist of sorts. A socialist is NOT a dirty word. But DICTATORSHIP is. We never fought a war over socialism. How ignorant can these people be? When they finish off the middle class...those STILL TRYING to make ends meet....they will COME AFTER YOU...TEA BAGGERS. You should take a good look to see who is at the core of this movement.
Both parties eagerly support both defense and entitlements. When was the last time you saw the Democratic party propose and vote through a bill to cut defense spending??? How about a bill proposed and passed by the GOP to cut entitlements..... I rest my case. They are the same party financially with only some social differences.
All corporations and the wealthy can do is throw money around. They have no voting power. They always rely on the tried and true small time greed and stupidity of the working classes to elect their crooks. After the last financial meltdown the working class reelected the same corrupt group of incumbents that orchestrated, carried out and covered up the financial meltdown. There was no huge conspiracy. The 160 million who don't pay any federal taxes voted them all back in again because they were promised more unfunded entitlements and no taxation. They sold out the country for some freaking food stamps, HUD housing and a "free medical" package that would bankrupt the entire globe if enacted. But they don't care.... they don't pay for them.
Until we stop people from being able to vote themselves UNFUNDED entitlements, service and jobs nothing will change. The wealthy and corporations will continue to have a field day with the crooks the lower classes are determined to elect. Any unfunded spending is simply Ponzi schemes, extortion, racketeering and a host of other crimes anyplace but in the federal government where it is business as usual.
Simply put, unless the lower classes either start being hurt by deficit spending or lose the right to vote what is done with the tax money nothing will change. They would elect Adolph hitler to keep not paying taxes and keep the unfunded entitlements coming. They simply don't care about defense because you can't be too safe when spending other peoples money for your security. It is also quite nobel to go saving people from evil dictators when it is someone else's money.
The Tea Party has nothing to do with any of this. This ignorant greedy "mob rule" was created by and fed by the Democrats and GOP. If the "anti-Christ is coming the lower classes will eagerly embrace him with no conspiracy.
Mister Iron for Brains, the jobs loss you keep regurgitating is in the public sector, and yes, that is no loss. The economy will recover and private sector jobs will return as a result of the deficit being cut. Right now employers are not adding to their work force due to higher projected taxes, mostly as a result of Healthcare Reform. @CJ, you socialist liberals seem to have an obsession with "teabagging" is that a liberal thing or what? Not only is the term old and tiresome, not to mention CHILDISH, it would be nice if you liberals stuck to the topic at hand, and kept your sexual preferences to yourselves.
I agree. The cry for jobs was not for more unfunded federal jobs creating debt. It was for private sector jobs that cost the taxpayers NOTHING. Any chimp can create ornamental government jobs with borrowed money. We have to downsize the federal government and pump up the private sector jobs, which cost the taxpayers nothing.
The trouble is the Federal Reserve is in charge of the economy and unemployment and hardly anyone realizes that. The federal government can only tax, spend and borrow. They can't print currency, change interest rates or anything that would actually affect the economy. Obama borrowed a trillion dollars and through it into the economy but it was barely noticeable for a couple of months. This really shows how little effect the federal government has on the economy by borrowing money to create jobs etc. It is simply useless.
At this point the very best thing Congress can help us with is to replace the Federal Reserve. This would get rid of all the high level financial corruption and incentive for Congress to endlessly borrow. Thend break up the insolvent "big five" banks who control over 80% of the net debt into hundreds of highly competitive independent banks hungry to loan money and invest in business. The Federal Reserve should be replaced with people whose only vested interest is in the US and not some large scale global economy like the FED.
Better a socialist than a dictator, mr head teabagger. We do not have to help corporations anymore. They are paid to take their jobs out of the country. There will be no more jobs for the American people. The goal is to enslave us. As it is, they are hiding their profits in other countries and paying no tax. WE OWE CORPORATIONS NOTHING. We will soon have to fight them, it will get so bad. Here is the way I feel. If corporations want to hire foreign workers and if they dont way to pay taxes to this country...get out of this country...and dont ship your poisonous junk back in here for us to buy. The jobs are gone mr head and they wont return.
CJ
I am afraid that you have said it correctly. I really think that those who look at the business news need to explain the huge profits that corporations are making, without hiring US citizens and all the while demanding more tax breaks. The blackmail job the corporations are threatening the country, with, while their flunkies in Congress stating that they will leave the country if they cannot get more and more tax breaks, is not going to work anymore. If the gross amount of profit is not enough for them then let them leave, sooner rather than later.
about as childish as "Obamacare"
I hope you like the world you are about to create for your children. A world of complete and utter slavery. You are fighting for corporations. Why? Do you own one? Why do you want to work for low wages, have no health care and no future? What is in it for you? Explain yourself!! I have worked all of my life and have been a good citizen. I have paid my taxes and never asked for a thing from this Government. I have loved my family and made sure they were educated on my dime not the government's. I don't want them enslaved by corporations. I want them to have dreams and hopes and be able to live a wonderful life. This is why I have worked so hard these 36 years, not so this Government can steal and rob them of their future. We will not stand for this.
CJ & Jennifer. To change the way corporations are taxed in this country you simply need to get the lower class majority of voters to elect competent people to Congress. They are the ones that send every politician to Washington. They are completely responsible for all this mess. They just reelected the same core group of incumbents that caused and covered up the financial meltdown and bailouts. These incumbents have also been sending millions of jobs overseas for over a decade and the voting majority thought that was all just "peachy" and we ought to put all those people right back into office.
It is not hard to find honest politicians that won't play ball with the corporations and FED. The trouble is they would completely understand all the deficit spending and borrowing has to stop. That means all the unfunded entitlements have to go. They also understand you can't have literally 1/2 your country not paying any federal taxes. A crook that will give the people unfunded entitlements on the backs of the taxpayers are the same crooks who will give corporations whatever they please too. They don't care what either do to the country only that they are reelected. A crook is a crook and you can't have your cake and eat it too.
You either elect people who are financially and fiscally conservative or you elect crooks who don't care about the debt or that corporations are screwing the labor market. You also cannot stabilize ANY labor market when you have 20 million illegal workers who don't care about our labor laws or how we are trying to raise wages. There are now 200,000 a month coming in who will undercut the US workers all day long.
This is extremely simple. The voting majority simply has to elect people to Congress. Neither the rich nor the middle class can do this no matter how much they want it. It is the 160 million non tax paying but voting people who control the elections and who is in office. They need to decide enough is enough or nothing will change. But why would you stop trillions in spending that cost you NOTHING? They have the power to control all the elections and ZERO incentive to not have crooks in office that will support unfair tax laws and unfunded entitlements.
let's hear it for the young Nazi partyÂ
The "Pubs" are trying to get rid of federal jobs so everything can be contracted out(to their buddies of course) case in point the fiasco in Iraq where companies like haliburton(we know who's connected to them) get the money for contracts but are not finishing the work. And if they can't do the work they will just subcontract it out but still get paid. So once again the very few get the money while the majority lose out.
I say we start by outsourcing Congress. Oh, that's right, we already have. They are just mere shells with international bankers as the Puppet Masters.
Well despite how STUPID protesters can get sometimes, its a good sign that this is still America when there aren't national guardsman coming out of the captiol and gunning everyone down everyday.
If the tea baggers want to make cuts try defense. We spend about 600 billion yearly(defense contractors love it) 2nd place China, about 60 billion. Something wrong with that. Cut that 60 billion from defense.
Uhhh.. Jammer... The $60 billion is a joke no matter what is cut. We have a $1.7 trillion dollar problem and not a $60 billion dollar problem. Even if these bozos cut $60 trillion it will do nothing because there is no spending freeze on the federal government. The one that is only on employees is a joke because they can pay them more simply by raising them up the pay scale instead of giving them a raise at their current level.
We need a plan to cut $1 trillion over 5 years and $.7 trillion over the next 5 years with a hiring and spending freeze on the federal government. Anything short of that is just bailing on the titanic with a soup can instead of a tea cup.
What this means is "hasta lavista" or goodbye to ALL unfunded defense and entitlements. Even then we will still have to significantly downsize the federal government which is bloated like a pig with redundant agencies tripping all over each other. Look up the word "unfunded". It means no money to pay for or "borrowed" in federal government language.
Uhhh Adams, they are fighting over cutting about 60 billion right now which is why i said start with defense. Yes we need to do more.
Look at the people protesting. Fat, white, old Americans. Probably on pensions and social security. God, they make me sick. Go back home and give me the Unions any day over these overfed morons.
Still promoting liberal sexual pratices with the "teabagger" thing I see, would be nice to debate adults than a roomful of Headstart drop outs. Just keep regurgitating liberal mantra, and paying higher taxes like good little sheep. And keep applauding your liberal Gods(Democrat politicians) as they TAX and REGULATE jobs overseas. And when you grow up and wake up, then maybe, just maybe, you will understand it's the rich corporations who do the hiring, and by demonizing them, you don't have anyone to hire your "lazy the world owes me @ss".
I would have to move overseas to work for most of them, anyway. So why defend their tax-free status?
I am sure the folks are not demonizing the companies as much as their practices which are tainted and above the law.
What we are trying to get the corporations to do is simply hire in the US without gouging the crap out of us, just cus they can and stop trying to cut the wages to a third world country wage. If they can play fair, the working class won't want to hang them in the courtyard. Really, they made their wealth off the working class as much as anything else, so just play fair.
Most of us are sick of hearing about the tea baggers. They're the modern day equivalent of the late 1800's no-nothing party. Most of them are uneducated losers, who think if they didn't have to pay taxes, their lives would improve. It wouldn't. It seems too me that hatred for non-whites drives their cause. They are always screaming, 'we want to take our country back'. Take back from who? let's face it. This rabble are at the bottom of the food chain and that's where they'll stay, no matter what political party is in charge.
Most large corporations in this country contract to the Federal Government. Name one that doesn't! Sorry, but they are on the dole just like the guy on welfare. So much for your job creation concept. When those contracts aren't there, the jobs go away. Corporations are not creating those jobs, the Federal Government is and farming them out to contractors. The reason corporations like Hasbro moved overseas is because they saw huge profit from paying slaves 20 cents a day and then sending their toys back into this country and selling them for 3 times what it took to make them. They didn't want to pay a living wage to American workers, or give them vacations or decent pensions for their years of hard work. It was not the taxes and regulations. They should pay taxes and they should pay their share of them. I pay 38 percent, I bet they pay less than that. It is a disgrace to ask the people of this country to become less than human so corporations can make huge profits.
So why is it a corporation that makes a profit is evil. First off a product must be invented. Someone has to invest time and risk their own personal money to do that. Then they have to convince others to invest in their product, again THEIR time and effort. Then a company must be formed and a facility built to manufacture the product. Then the product must be advertised, before they are able to market the product. Investors must be paid, building leases must be paid, liability insurance, and maintenance of the facility. Then if the product is marketable and begins to sell, labor is hired as customer demand builds. Wages, workmans comp and of course employee medical coverage. And lets not forget the Government wants its piece of the pie, with regulations and taxes. And the guy who started with the idea still can't take his "evil profit" because in order for his business to grow he must reinvest, and maybe hire more employees. And the process begins again. So why is it you liberals want to "demonize" the guy who invested his own time and money. Would you, truthfully, go through that process of risk and not expect to profit. Or do you really think some guy(or you) wakes up one day and says, you know what I'm going to invent the next best thing so I can hire a bunch of people, give them health insurance and make THEM rich? If you do you are not only a liar, but an idiot as well. No wonder businesses go overseas, they have people who actually want to WORK there.
Why must you begin every argument with a false premise? Profit isn't evil. How you choose to arrive at that profit can easily be evil.
Mruseurhead
I have no problem with corporations making a good profit. What I have a problem with is that they get away with tax breaks and do not hire US citizens. If an idea belongs to someone, it will only work if there is seed money to get started and then if they are successful and grow, that is good and they deserve to prosper. That does not give them the right to not pay taxes and cut wages with a threat to leave the country if they do not get what they demand. Especially if they have bought off politicians to ensure preferential treatment. The likelihood is that a larger corporation with more capital will buy them up and that igenious person's idea is now part of a corporation that bought the idea because they could afford to buy the idea. Along with all this, the creative people in an industry are paid a wage and they are workers who have helped the corporation grow, so they have contributed. The workers who produce the product are creating profit also. The American worker is supposed to be the most productive, I have heard, so you calling them lazy is a lie.
Liberals don't hate profit. I'm a liberal and capitalist. However, corporations don't make money in a vaccum. They need labor to produce a product. Responsible companies provide their employees with health care, pensions and living wages. Anything less is a travesty. I invest in employee friendly companies only and I've done well. I won't invest in sweatshops.
I mean this, God bless you for having integrity. I bet your employees are loyal and you deserve it, along with a good profit.
Thank you, Jennifer. Just because one makes money, it doesn't mean they have be selfish. Without a solid middle class, we'd have no one to purchase goods and services. taxes are neccessary for a society to function. It only makes sense for those who have more to pay more. I consider the hefty taxes I pay as an investment in our country.
Well Mary.. the problem is not you, me or even the corporations but we have 160 million wage earners who pay no federal income taxes. They contribute nothing and are a complete drain on the government. They use the largest share of the entitlements and services while paying nothing for them. Who in the heck ever thought a country could stay afloat with less than half the citizens paying into taxation while the ones that don't control the voting majority?
The problem with the corporations going overseas is the same bankers who own our Federal Reserve own the central banks in both China and India now. So these bankers are what are backing the investments of our corporations overseas. Prior to the Federal Reserve and World Bank having this relationship nobody would build a factory in China because the government could just confiscate the factory and all your assets anytime they pleased.
Well that all changes with the FED and World Bank running the show over there. It was bad enough when they ran all the banking, economies and currency management in Europe. Of course this did not harm us too much because European labor costs were more than US. When these bankers moved into China and India they created the largest conflict of interest in the entire globe. They are stripping our country like a car to be sold for junk while pumping up the economies of their newer "buddies".
Problem 1.) 160 million non tax paying people controlling the voting, taxation and spending in America
Problem 2.) The Federal Reserve bankers with a financial conflict of interest screwing EVERYONE in this country.
96% of us aren't overtaxed, we're underpaid. We're racing to the bottom against slave wage earners around the globe.
160 million wage earners who pay no federal tax? Where did you get that from? It's simply not true. The only wage earners, who pay no taxes, are hard working people that don't make enough to live on and it's no where near that number. Everyone who works should make enough to live decently and pay taxes. Do you agree?
So is it the corporations responsibility to pay a wage demanded or is it the employees responsibility to seek employment at a corporation paying the wage the employee demands? You have that right to refuse to be hired for a wage that is less than you want you know? That is the great thing about capitalism, you have the right to either seek employment in a career that provides wages you want or here is a thought, start a business and become profitable yourself. "God bless you for having integrity", give me a break. The idea that someone wakes up in the morning one day and says, " I got a great idea, I am going to start a business so I can hire a bunch of employees and make them rich", is ludicrous. Someone starts a business because they have integrity in themselves and a desire to become successful. If you consider a job a "sweat shop" em better yourself and either quit and go to work someplace else, or start your own business. No one owes you a job, or become a liberal and whine and resent others success.
You have a very cynical outlook. Why do you despise working people? In this economy, do you really believe people can just find a better job, just like that? Employers have a moral obligation to provide their employees with decent pay and benefits. This country wil not survive without the opportunity for people to make a decent living. Apparently, you're doing well and don't care about your fellow Americans. Fine. If enough people sink into poverty, it'll bring everyone down, including you.
If someone runs a sweatshop, they deserve nothing. Not tax breaks, not loyal employee and not profit. It is true that a person can go somewhere else, if there are jobs to be had and I am sure they would, first chance they got. No one thinks that their employer is going to make them rich, unless they have a percentage in the profit of the company as compensation for their work. Why should an employer, especially a sweatshop employer be given any special tax breaks? No one owes anyone anything except to act in good faith. If a company move off shore because of excessive profit, let them go and you can go with them if you run a sweat shop.
As far as someone having a good idea goes, I suspect the creative people (I have some in my family), are not the always business minded people, so they will work for others or sometimes starve. Hence, the "starving artist". What you are really saying is that many business minded people are opportunist by nature and good with finance. They will use the talent of others which is not a bad thing but they need the creative talent and the workers to make their business successful. To discount people who are making your venture successful, makes for a crappy boss who deserves nothing.
Again with the false premise, mruseurhead.
RBell... Just Google 47% don't pay federal taxes". You will get pages of hits. I don't "despise' workers. Only those who don't pay federal taxes but want to decide what to do with those paid by others. It is like letting your 3 children decide how the family finances are managed because although they contribute nothing and are the least educated they are the majority.
There are about 150 million individual tax "filers". Of those 47% of the "households" pay no federal income taxes. Since there are several "tax filers" in many households This means WAY over half the "tax filers" don't pay federal income taxes.
When you add in all the people who do not "file" returns it is about 160 million in 2010. You can Google this and find hits explaining by Money.com, CNN, NY Times, Yahoo Finance etc etc etc. These are all based on 2009 figures and the 2010 are surely worse as so many people moved down in income. We have surely passed 50%. Most articles don't include the numbers including "non filers" and only talk about filers. No matter how you interpret the numbers it is total insanity.
Most of the articles fail to include the dramatic and devastating results of the earned income tax credit because that is not considered part of taxation but a "gift" from the federal government. When you include the tax credit which can be as much as $5000 for many it wipes out all their Social Security/Medicare contributions and "consumption" taxes like gasoline, cigarettes etc.
Unfortunately, the top or wealthy/corporate tax structure is just as bad or even worse. The reason for this is the corrupt politicians need to give taxpayer handouts to the low wage earning voting majority and they need the wealthy/corporations for campaign money. They need both to stay in office so that is where the grossly unfair taxation corruption is.
The term "decently" as you use it is the problem. I assume that means a taxpayer is being forced through tax extortion to provide a higher standard of living to someone who is not able to do that for themselves. You either mean through unfunded entitlements or their fair share of taxation being avoided. Defining terms such as "decent' and "charity" are non existent in this country. People just pull them out of thin air to justify what they want at the expense of others. That form of redistribution of wealth is the basis for communism. How much income may we keep that won't hinder the escalation of the lifestyle you cannot afford.... comrade?
I agree with the 47% figure. That's a far cry from 160 million none taxpayers. you claimed in an earlier post. What does rhis say about our economy, when that many people don't earn enough to pay taxes? I'd say the American dream is dead. It was a great run while it lasted. Our kids better learn to speak Chinese.
First of all it means the federally run education system is a COMPLETE failure and needs to be returned to the states and counties to be run. If it can only produce a small minority able to even pay one dime in taxes it needs to be replaced and quickly. Education with proper focus on job attainment is key to getting the next generation of people to have more value and income. Federalism is also dead just like a parent who coddles a child and teaches it no survival skills. It makes dysfunctional people who view themselves as victims of society. Immigration both legal and illegal need to be completely reformed without entitlements for their first 20 years of citizenship. The immigrants have to have the old "hack it or pack it" determination and life skills the ones prior to entitlements had.
The 47% is for "households" which house multiple wage earners some even filed as dependents etc. So there are well over double the 47% of "filers". You have to include all wage earners who do not file and are still not paying federal income taxes. You can also have a husband, wife and three teenagers all wage earners on the same "single" tax return or 5 separate wage earners 4 not filing and only 1 filing etc etc.
The dangerous thing is all these non paying wage earners control the voting majority and thus decide what is done with all federal taxes. We simply can't have people who pay nothing controlling the taxation and spending. This is why the founders only let land owners vote in the beginning because they knew the poorer people would vote to tax the crap out of the land owners and redistribute the wealth to themselves. They knew the next step in greed was to then empty the Treasury and finally create endless debt. There is simply nothing to stop them as the spending can only benefit them because they pay nothing and keep all their income for themselves. Europe had been bankrupted many times trying highly centralized governments prior to 1776.
The concept of non paying taxpayers voting on taxation and spending is highly flawed and always ends up the same way with massive debt bankrupting the country. The wealthy and corporations are just along for the ride and grabbing everything they can for themselves before it crashes. This is another reason they are moving out of the country so they are not hurt when the currency collapses and the civil unrest happens when the entitlements are inevitably discontinued.
show me the law that says an indiviual must pay taxes on compansation for labor. i can save you time there is no law.
BTW the 16th amendment was in fact never radified and gave the government no new taxing powers. Therefore no one individual is legaly bound to pay taxes out of there paychecks. BUT! We arn't individuals any longer we are all trusts. this is how you are taxed legaly. Ever wonder why your name is written in caps on anything like a bank account, court documents, paychecks ect. well thats how they got around the constitution. You are the trustee of your trust and if you want to play in the system well you have to play by trust rules.
Trying to get these people to understand that Common Law was replaced with Maritime law as far as taxation is like teaching a squirrel to drive. They also think the Federal Reserve is a Federal Government agency. Bwaa ha ha ha
Anyone see this on CNN. Your going to love this idea from Paul Ryan(R) from the great union job killing state of WI..
"House GOP budget to call for big changes to Medicare, Medicaid"
http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/04/02/house.gop.budget/index.html?hpt=C1
@ r bell: It may surpise you to know I am "the working class". Well off, better than some, not as well as others. Before recently getting laid off, of my second job, thats right two jobs, I literally worked 7 days a week. I am as "working class" as someone can get. Why 2 jobs? To better my status in life, would have worked 3 jobs, if the hours would have worked out. Graduated high school, a little college, worked construction for years, became a garbageman, 23 years in August, delivered newspapers, and never asked no one for a dime, I didn't earn. Was a liberal for most of the years of my "chidhood", was a Nixon/Agnew hater. Then I started to really look at liberalisum and politics. Saw how billions have been spent on, education, the "war" on poverty, food stamps, and realized instead of helping people better themselves, liberal and social hand outs(entitlements) create victims who demand more. Cynical, your damn right. I see billions of tax dollars wasted on redundant programs, and always more is needed. But what goats me more is liberal hypocrisy. Bush(Republican) in office and day after day we are slammed with media news how bad things are. Unemployment 4 1/2% the whole country is out of work, Obama 8.9% were recovering everything rosey, Iraq, nightly body count of Americans killed, haven't heard much about Obamas wars have you? Cynical yes and sick of whinny liberal lies and hypocrisy, tired of mantra, rich corporations running sweat shops, tax cuts for the rich, teabaggers. Koch brothers, but no lib says a thing about George Soroses riches, or Al Gore' or John Kerry married to the catch up Queen who is a billionaire. Cynical no you libs just make me sick.
Don't forget to apply that to McCains wife,the beer queen.
alot of us have worked 2 jobs to better ourselves and families. Doing the hard work is not the problem. As I remember it Bush started slamming the economy himself to get elected. He was the one that said the tax cuts would make it better. Look how much that helped out.
LOL ~ Republicans have replaced Capitalism with Corporatism, and soon their mantra - "Drill Baby Drill," will become slash and "Burn Baby Burn"!
Don't forget "cut baby cut"....Democrats are in for a rude awakening if they think the looming "government shut down", is going to hurt the Republicans. "Essential" services will not be affected, and so most of America will see no difference after the "shut down". Only "non essential" services will be shut down, and once most of America sees these services can be done without and the tax savings, some of these non essential services(especially redundant ones) will be axed permanently. We could save 1 trillion dollars by defunding the Department of Education alone, talk about waste and redundancy, don't believe it's waste, netflix "Waiting for Superman", it's a documentary that was produced by the same people who brought you the classic propaganda film American children were forced to watch, "The Undeniable Lie" or whatever it was called, by Al Gore. So I say go for it, "shut it down", "cut baby cut", and "drill baby drill". Or even more important, "wake up America wake up".
Mruseurhead
i agree with most of what you have said but one thing. The progressives are in both parties the D vs R is the distraction. When the fighting between both parties are at the highest watchout - you will notice any bill that results will be progressive based.
The "liberal","progressive" or "conservative" names have evolved to be only regarding social issues. Both parties are drunken sailors when it comes to spending of any type. Once they figured out they could "purchase" votes with taxpayer money the race to collapse the country into endless debt was on. You just can't spend someone else's money fast enough.
Those social issue differences should all be managed by the states and not even be decided on the federal level. It is insane to think we can get even a moderate portion of 300 million people to agree on any social issues. They should all be decided by the states and counties so we can have diversity.
Sorry I don't remember commenting about progressives, but I will. A "progressive" liberal is just a liberal, it's an oxymoron, with the emphasison "moron". The ultimate believer, in the cradle to grave belief, the have nots are suppose to be supported by the haves, and it is somehow "immoral" for someone who, by theirown sweat and diligence manages to become successful, their success is then "redistributed" by taxes to, the "have nots". But then you create a community of "have nots" into "do nots", who still get to "have" without the sweat. Charity is a good thing if allowed to be given willingly. But allowing the government to decide what is charitable is what is wrong. Stealing is stealing. Example: If I saw a homeless person and wanted to help them out, so I saw you and to me, you seemed to be "well off", so I walked up to you with a gun and said, "give your money to that homeless person", I would be arrested, right? But allowing the government to literally do the same thing, (all be it without the gun, but tax laws and the ability to either attach your wages and bank accounts, or jail you), how is that not illegal or fair? And a progressive Republican in a word RINO.
True American.
Truly a tool of the right wing spewing out talking points like a good sheeple. Just as independant as the tea-bagger astro turf party of talking points brought to you by the brothers Koch and Dick Armey.
Beware of these types of people who use patriot names and patriot games to fool the people as if they really know what is good for the country and the people, all the while supporting policies that are driving us into the dirt.
Well, if I had known the Tea Party was a bunch of uneducated Kooks I would of not voted Tea Party. Yes, buyers remorse.
You didn't vote for them....uh, no you didn't.