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msnbc.com's Carrie Dann
msnbc.com's Carrie Dann
Tea Party activists gather in the shadow of the Capitol to urge budget cuts.
From msnbc.com's Carrie Dann
As budget negotiations continued inside the halls of Congress Thursday, a gathering of Tea Party activists huddled at a cold outdoor rally on Capitol Hill to send a message to the deal-makers inside:
They're ready to pick a fight.
A few hundred people -- far fewer than the massive rallies seen before last year's midterm elections -- who braved the dreary weather urged lawmakers to push deep cuts to the federal budget even if it results in a temporary shuttering of the government, chanting "Cut it or shut it!" and punctuating cheers with calls to "shut it down!"
"If Harry Reid wants a fight, let's give it to him!" said Rep. Mike Pence (R-IN), one of a parade of conservative lawmakers who made remarks at the event sponsored by the Tea Party Patriots.
Many of the rally's speakers were careful to note that Democrats are "rooting" for a shutdown and that GOP budget-cutters hope to avoid a funding lapse that would turn off the government's lights.
Democratic leaders "want to turn you into their scapegoats and blame the Tea Party for shutting the government down," said Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN).
Rep. Allen West (R-FL) declared, "We are not here to talk about shutting the government down... But if you want to talk about shutting down the government, go over there and talk to Chuck Schumer and Harry Reid and the folks at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue!"
Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) told reporters after his brief remarks to the crowd that a federal closure is undesirable but would not be catastrophic.
"No Republican wants to shut the government down. I don't think anybody here really wants a shutdown," DeMint said, "but we shouldn't be so afraid of a shutdown that we can't make the right decisions right now." He added, "We can't be cowed by this threat."
The preemptive finger-pointing over a potential shutdown likely stems from the scars of the budget fights of the mid-1990s, when the public soured on GOP leaders in the wake of a series of federal closings.
A full federal closure "is not going to be very popular with the American people," warned Clinton-adviser-turned-conservative-commentator Dick Morris, who instead suggested a "targeted shutdown" of agencies -- like the EPA and the National Labor Relations Board -- that are loathed by Tea Party activists.
"We don't have to close down the government. We're going to close down the parts of the government we can't stand!" Morris said.
That sentiment was met with cheers -- as well as a smattering of shouts to "shut it down!"
*** UPDATE *** Here's a dispatch from NBC's Catherine Chomiak:
As the continuing resolution currently funding the government inches closer to its expiration date of April 8, Tea Party activists rallied today for a budget battle. Reps. Steve King (R-IA), Mike Pence (R-IN), Michele Bachmann (R-MN) and Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) fired up the crowd on a dreary day in Washington, D.C., with calls for a fight and threats of a government shutdown.
Congressman Pence, citing the current deficit, debt, and “defiant liberal majority in the Senate” said the time was right “to pick a fight."
“The debt stops here,” he said. “If liberals in the Senate would rather play political games and shut down the government instead of making a small down payment on fiscal discipline and reform, I say, 'Shut it down.'”
Representative and potential Republican presidential candidate Bachmann hit Democrats saying they are hoping for a government shut down. “That’s their plan," Bachmann said. "They want to shut the government down, and they want to turn you into their scapegoat and say, 'It’s the Tea Party’s fault for shutting the government down.'"
Paul urged the Tea Party members to keep up their political involvement. “The fight is just beginning,” he vowed. “Keep their feet to the fire, call them, email them, let them know that you are prepared for America to move forward, but only by balancing the budget and making government smaller.”
In addition to a fight on the budget, King showed support for his fellow House Republican saying, “We need to fight on Mike Pence’s proposal on unfunding (sic) Planned Parenthood… And we need to fight on cutting off the funding that implements Obamacare.”
Bachmann also got loud cheers from the crowd when she proposed sending “a change of address form to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.”
This is something Bachmann has said before and will probably be said again, as she continues to consider a 2012 presidential bid.
Leave a Comment:
Now that's more like it...
I've been waiting for an update on the crazee talk express...
*popcorn anyone*? Nice & buttery...
That's my girl Feisty - they are crazy, but Obama and the government blowing through $223 billion last month is totally sane.
Ain't that right Fiesty - no problem with the current path, full steam ahead on the debt train?
For the love of God, they can't even spell socialism correctly...
Take a peek at these oldies but goodies - they never fail to make me LMAO! ;o)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/
Actually Spanky, We are still paying for the Reagan DEBT. Reagan increased the DEBT from 907 billion in 1980 to 2.6 TRILLION in 1988.
Reagan was our first TRILLION dollar President, then there was Bush, and then Junior.
So please, hearing a conservative talking about the DEBT is like listening to Paris Hilton talking about abstinence.
We are heading for the edge of the cliff at a 165 MPH.
And the Tea Partiers are crazy for suggesting we lift our foot for a second?
The idiocy of the left is stunning.
And Feisty, a couple of people that can't spell socialism are still way ahead of the left - they at least know it when they see it.
Ray - let's just go scoreboard, shall we?
Amount on the board by Reagan? Bush 1? Bush 2?
Now how much from O?
And Fiesty- I would love, love love to hear your thoughts on QE3. And focus on the three, and please explain what effect that will have on the currency already in circulation.
Go ahead Feisty, give it a whirl. Because after all it's pretty important, right?
2012 WINNING........keep it up Republicants/teabagger goons. your way or no other way.....WINNING
Oh god, GOP/TPers please hold your line and do the Dems a favor by shutting down the government. While you are at it make sure the esteem gentleman that was crying about paying his student loans, supporting his six children and paying his mortgage get paid. I cannot wait to see an add with him at the forefront.
"Government shut down...thousands of government workers not paid...expect for the exempted House and Senate, because they have children to feed, mortgages to pay and student loans." The GOP/TPers, putting themselves first, taking your jobs and the country second!
This add was paid for by common sense!
The difference between drunken sailors and liberals is that drunken sailors stop spending when they run out of money
Go ahead, TP, shut it all down. See if you get your social security checks. OH, you want to fly back to AZ and FL, well too bad, no air traffic controllers (government emplyoyees.) Want to take a cruise, nope, no boarder agents to let you in/out of the country.
Get real. Stop being so stupid.
Senator Reed should push through his revised HR-1 and then make the House put up or shut up. I know the House has to initiate the budget, but can't the Senate amend it (change it) and send it back... much improved ?
Madison From NY
The difference between drunken sailors and liberals is that drunken sailors stop spending when they run out of money
Bad rational, so if you ship breaks down you abandon it to get another? Where do you get the money if you don't spend any? Make the rich pay their taxes.
*smack Bev on her hand*
Do not feed the troll Bev.
Sometimes my GF just can't help herself! ;o)
Ray: good for you. You are exactly right! Too bad the "teabaggers" can't read!
I though the difference was drunken sailors stoped drinking when they passed out???
Can you please cite your source for that amount. I'm interested as to where such spending went, especially when Congress holds the purse.
Ok Spanky, 7.43 TRILLION dollars in DEBT accumulated by Reagan,Bush 1 ,Bush 2,
Jimmy Carter ( 32.5% of GDP was the debt)
Reagan- (53% of GDP was the Debt)
Bush 1- (66% of GDP was the debt)
Bush 2 - (83% of GDP was the Debt)
No problem: CBO.
So Rudy, what amount, if any, do you think we need to cut?
So it, in your view at least equal the amount of interest we pay?
And Rudy, how and when do you foresee us ever paying this off? And if we don't start at least paying it down soon, what do you project the cost of the debt will be by 2020?
Oh and Ray, if it was $223 billion last month, what do you think it will be this month? We got us three extra days after all.
The irony is almost too much.
Preaching to the crowd about how the democrats want a shutdown.....while the crowd chants, "Shut it Down!!"
LOL!!! Wow.
And the projection based reality continues......
A shutdown is actually more costly than keeping the status-quo in the long term, we know this from the previous shutdown. The TP has no concept of consequence.
Well gosh Rudy - that $7.43 Trillion in 20 presidential years [8 reagan, 4 bush 1, 8 bush 2].
Now if I break out my 10 key that looks to be a little shy of half a Trillion per year.
Ok your turn, please do the calculation for Obama's term so far.
And Hey how about this QE3? You think that's a good idea Rudy?
Tea Party Congressional members, Please shut down the govrnment, and leave it shutdown, and end congess's TEA Party. These these KOOKS walk around saying they're serving their country...hahahahhahaa, how 'bout you jerkoffs carry a rifle and a pack around on your back for 4 years, and then maybe you won't take away my GI school benefits after I did, then come talk to me about serving your country......the TEA Party congress is a sad, short sided, and holier-than-thou piece of OUR government .... what does it take to get elected TEA: the desire to screw or fu*k people without a consience, do nothing at all and get paid for it (slacker), and how to talk out of your ass!!....."WHAT A JOKE YOU ALL ARE".....TEA Party = Tax Evading Americans Party and you best leave your hands off my Social Security, bitches!!
shut down the Government ... good idea if you want the chinese and other countrys that we owe demanding payment on our debt .... that will leave us as a third world country ... it probably doesnt bother the tea party .. all they care about is the destruction of the middle class and this will hasten the middle classes demise .. it will also cut .. social security ... medicare ... medicade.... countless jobs ...like Boehner said SO BE IT
You'll think common sence is that common like they say......hell no.
Teabaggers Goons, shut it down.
Spanky
No problem: CBO.
So Rudy, what amount, if any, do you think we need to cut?
Like I told you before, reverse only the tax cut for the top 2% and see what happens.
Pius - like I said before: talk to your man Obama, it's his tax cut.
Feisty - please, please please provide a definition for the word "troll." I asked Daryl a little while ago, but I think a little light went on in his head so he wisely declined.
How about you old girl, think you can do it? See, I'd love to apply the factors to certain people here.
Come on Feisty, I think it'll be a whole lot of fun. :)
Fisty, I have some butter I would lovvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvve to give to you.
Spanky,
Stick to your paralegal job and leave the number crunching to the experts. You DO realize that there is INTEREST now due and payable on that first 7.43 TRILLION, right?
Give us all a break. You are a typical troll. Demanding answers to your questions and deflecting any accountability for those positions and policies that you have supported that were OBVIOUS failures.
Spare us your poutrage tantrums and do something productive like read a book or even an article that didn't germinate in the anals of FAUX News or Rupert Murdoch.
Reagan was the FIRST Trillion dollar President...yet you still canonize the man.
If the stimulus never occurred, how would the budget be? Are you saying we didn't need a stimulus? If so, go take a economics class about supply and demand. Without demand the economy doesn't grow.
So Spanky,
Since you are now claiming that the tax cut is Obama's, are you now preempted from saying he is raising taxes?
Why yes Clara I do. As you realize there is interest due on the remainder, right.
And please do point out where I 1. deflect accountability; and 2. specify which policies I have supported that were OBVIOUS failures.
Go Ahead and take your time.
So what books are you reading right now? And clara dear I don't watch Fox. Say did you happen to catch Big ED Schultz last night? He kinda got an earful for that guy from the Nation on his hypocrisy over the new(est) war, didn't he?
Ok Clara - your turn. Should there be any reduction in spending or are we good at the current rates?
Go ahead Clara, take you time and give it a whirl.
Fiesty I know you are out there and take your continued silence as an admission that any definition of troll you provide would not reflect kindly on you. Interesting, since you are the first to bust that word out.
What is even worse than our monetary DEBT is our TRADE debt. If we bring manufacturing BACK, we will begin to pay down the Debt of this Country...it is exactly what happened in the 1950s. Our Debt was erased in 5 years...after it was 120% of GDP
Ok so what's the plan to do that?
Does Immelt - he's Obama's guy on everything corporate have anything for us?
Ray, should we abolish NAFTA? Impose tariff?
You see what Germany does? No taxes on any goods exported. Think we could do that here? Kinda cuts against the whole corporations need to pay more taxes though, right?
@Spanky -- to properly do the math on Obama's spending, you'll first have to remove the costs he inherited for 2 wars (and their interest), his Republican predecessors' rampant debt building (not technically spending when you give tax breaks, but same difference to the bottom line), and what else was there? Oh yes, the amount he, McCain, Palin or Rush Bigdaddy Limbaugh would have had to put up in order to keep that little house of cards we call the world economy from really bringing a load down on our heads.
For everybody else: you need to worry FAR more about the unsustainability of healthcare-related entitlement programs, namely Medicare, Medicaid, and the Prescription Drug benefit/big-pharma giveaway from Bush II and his Republican majority congress. They DWARF everything else, including our current debt and interest on that debt.
Look at the math: our TOTAL federal debt is almost equal to 100% of our GDP...and it's payable over 30 years. What does that sound like? Hmm...a mortgage? So if YOU owed 100% of your GDP (yearly earnings) on your home mortgage, would you be in trouble? No, of course not -- most people owe far more than that and manage the principal and interest just fine. BUT -- if you'd also committed to funding your parents' and your in-law's long term healthcare and assisted living costs, and perhaps those of a few of their friends (regardless of whether they could pay this for them themselves), then you'd be in a bit of trouble.
Of course, you could get around this (as a nation) by means testing for any and all "social insurance" benefits...ALL of these programs are meant to be insurance. The INSURANCE is the entitlement, not guaranteed payments, not unlimited use of medical resources no matter how dubious their efficacy.
Hint: single payer health insurance would go a long, long way...I know it sucks to admit that some FOREIGN idea might actually make sense but hey, sometime go look at the DATA -- I know that's kind of like water to the wicked witch with you guys, but if you don't study it you're just left shouting idiotic, baseless slogans in the street.
Republicans and Tea Partiers want to show you've REALLY got America's interests at heart? FIX THIS.
Oh, but, um, then you'd lose your base faster than a conservative hatemonger who gets caught nailing the hot young male page who's been helping him hang anti-gay posters at the local churches. Not that that would ever happen.
wwterry
1. could they have become law withouthis signature?
2. Where does the buck stop? With Boehner? Is Boehner the boss of the government?
Let's see what other taxes he plays with. I am pre-empted from blaming him from increases on personal income tax rates on the wealthiest 2% as long as that remains the law.
Oh and wwterry we both know he's going to re-up them again, if he has the opportunity, right.
As reported today in Politico Obmama secretly sent the CIA into Libya AT THE VERY SAME TIME Obama was PLEDGING "no boots on the ground in Libya." The White House won't comment on whether or not the United States is providing money and arms to Al Qaeda "freedom fighters" in Libya.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/52293.html
How can hard working citizens trust a PATHOLIGICAL LIAR with National Security, the Budget or anything else?
It's an interesting dilemma Ray, the trade debt is a result of us buying goods cheaper outside of the nation, because their cost of production is lower. There might be a bunch of good reasons for that, but the fact of the matter is, if you can produce a widget for $1 elswhere, and it costs $3 to produce it in the U.S., then the U.S. is at a competitive disadvantage, assuming that the widgets are the same. Most likely, to bring manufacturing back, you'll have to deal with the issue of wages, since wages are a very significant driver of costs, and that would have negative impacts as well. The fact that we have a global economy today, as compared to the 1950's makes it all the more difficult to compete. We have a significantly higher standard of living in the U.S. than in many other countries, where labor is cheap, and the employees are grateful to have a job. The bottom line is, it's unlikely that manufacturing will make a big return to these shores, other places are just signficantly less expensive.
you guys always say make the rich pay more. look, first the rich pay 50% or more of all taxes collected. here is where it really screws things up, the "rich" have also been hit hard by the recession, so if in 2007 they made say $500,000, in 2010 they made $250,000. so now what you have is the folks who pay half of the taxes making half as much, paying half the taxes. the rich do not make the same amount every year, and are even more prone to wild ups and downs in income than we are. we want rich people making good money, that is where the money to fund everything comes from, on top of that they are the ones who start businesses, hire people, and buy things. this class warfare BS is making all of us poor. I want my neighbor to do well, I want you to make a fortune, its the american dream. I want the rich to buy things from me, I want them to give me jobs, I want them to be happy keeping their wealth and business in the USA.
Madison, educate yourself. The President does not control the CIA. Learn facts.
Spanky,
You know as well as anyone that the Republicans were going to hold the unemployed hostage in order to have the cuts continued. How would that have helped the overall economy when there is money that is put back into the system as fast as it goes out cut off in order to continue tax cuts that may never see the real economy again? Rich people do not need more money to help them survive so they use the cuts to accumulate more personal wealth, not stimulate the economy.
I didn't say anything about Boehner so I have no response to your comment (it didn't make sense anyway)
"Let's see what other taxes he plays with" Typical righty comment. Trouble with the present so you feel the need to comment on the future. You must all have magic decoder rings.
Plausible deniability, and covert activities, sometimes requires falsehoods and untruths to be told to people who should know better than to ask the question.
The global economy is dependent on us to allow shipping of raw material and manufactured goods to be cheap and secure. We, our representatives, traded away our competitiveness and forced us to subsidize our own demise. The cost of global "free trade", is the depression of the living wage for the middle class in this country. We've been sold down the river, to the Plutocrats of the world.
also the dems can pass the republican bill bringing spending to 2008 levels any time they want, they refuse and have according to chuckey schumer been running a party wide smear campaign calling the tea party extremists and radical, attempting to blame the shutdown on the tea party, like this msnbc propaganda kool aid you all hold dear. what the republicans are doing is passing legislation that in the event of a shutdown vital functions will still be up and running, like social security. if the dems wont agree to a balanced budget amendment, spending cuts and caps, we can go ahead and let the dems shut it down. the democrats have become the party of lies, propaganda, croni capatalism, tsa porno scaners, and general chicago gangster tactics. good luck in 2012.
More Tea Buggery from the ultra-right Goons. These people are Morons plain and simple.
MAybe they can explain to the social security recipients and disabled persons that defunding NPR is more important than them getting their benefit check next month.
Teatards are DANGEROUS FOOLS
Now... WHO are the "spenders" again ??? Let's see.
Since 1981 REPUBLICANS have INCREASED the National Debt by 50.9%. YES....let me repeat FIFTY POINT NINE PERCENT !!! If you average out Clinton's SURPLUS and Obama's DEFICIT you get Dems raising it by 0% over the last 30+ yrs. Hmmmm....REPUBLICANS 50% .... DEMOCRATS 0%. WHO are the "BIG SPENDERS" ?
Ronald Reagan Increased Debt by +11.3% 1981-85 Beginning Debt 32.5%
+ 9.3% 1985-89 Ending debt 53.1%
George HW Bush +15% Beginning Debt 53.1%
Ending Debt 66.1%
Bill Clinton -0.7% 1993-1997 Beginning Debt 66.1%
-9.0% 1997-2001 Ending Debt 56.4%
Shrub + 7.1% 2001-2005 Beginning Debt 56.4%
+20.0% 2005-2009 Ending Debt/GDP 83.4%
Obama Beginning Debt 83.4%
+10% Current Debt 93.4%
You wouldn't be bitching and moaning about a 10% increase in the National Debt if Obama was Clinton's successor now , would you ??? HYPOCRITES.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms
tim, social security and ue checks will still go out, the republicans made sure of that, if the dems wont sign a bill than they are the ones causing a shutdown, the dems control the senate and the president, they are the ones who wont sign the bill, they have been calling for a shutdown. o and I flagged you for calling us teatards and morons. thats what you guys do, nothing but hate.
smc, this guy spent will spend more in 4 years than all presidents before him put together, but believe what the liberal machine tells you to.
daryl-2183015
That's a good one.
What's the difference between a drunken sailor and a Republican? A drunken sailor only pisses on himself. A Republican will piss on anyone.
Oh, these Tea Baggers. They offer so much entertainment. The Dumbing down of America in action.
Comparing 2011 dollars with 1980's dollars are way out of balance. Reagan in 2011 dollars had a yearly deficit of 1.25 Triliion dollars so in his 8 years he blew through 10 trillion dollars. Shrub did not include the cost of his wars in the budget, so throw in another 1.5 trillion on his debt. Tarp started on bush's term also. How can anyone say bush kept us safe? He presided over the biggest attack in history on the U.S . He kept us safe for about 270 days.
What a bunch of idiots. Will even ONE teabagger dare protest and decry the MASSIVE subsidies oil and banking industries have been getting? The tax dodging by corporations? No, of course not. Because the TP is a subsidiary of Koch and the Chamber of Commerce, at the expense of the middle class.
We don't have a tax problem - taxes are the lowest they have ever been in the modern era. We don't have a debt "crisis" - we have a REVENUE and a FAIRNESS problem, which the GOP continues to propogate, with help from a bunch of dummies taking their cues from the likes of talk radio, the conservative media, Fox "News" and the GOP/Regressive party establishment.
Idiots.
Can anyone that wanted the hopie changie thing read a chart? You didn't like the Bush era but do you really like the change, or are you just flying on auto pilot?
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-deficit-in-pictures/
HEY SPANKY! You want to talk about historical economics?
Sooo...
WHY was the GDP 4 times higher, (with half the unemployment), in the 1950's with a 92% top tax rate, than it is now with a 35% top tax rate?
Or to put it another way:
WHY was the middle class growing so fast in the 1950's with a top tax rate of 92%, when it is shrinking today with a 35% top tax rate on the rich?
My friends that are history buffs and majored in economics are eager to hear your explanations to these two questions!
Simplicity in true form
The republican said:
“That’s their plan," Bachmann said. "They want to shut the government down, and they want to turn you into their scapegoat and say, 'It’s the Tea Party’s fault for shutting the government down.'"
The TP'rs openly shout out in reply:
"Shut it down-Shut it Down!"
The republicans pretend to be bendable and work out the problem to avoid a shut down
in truth, the democrats are openly shown in recent news articles that they have lost ground and will have to make exceptions.
TP'rs will never be happy until they have a GOP president, GOP empowered Congress adn GOP lead House (which they already won).
That's the truth, with all the infighting going on. No one gives a @!$%# really about America or the American people, just who's ruling them
But no matter what lies and banter GOP'rs have to offer, we see the truth...if you don't get it your way, you will put us into a government shutdown if not bankruptcy and blame it on the Dem's.
It took President Clinton to bring our country afloat, and a Republican to sink our boat.
It's not a Dem President that is sinking our ship, and we know who put the holes in the hull, and you still cast blame away from yourselves.
Flap your lips typical of verbal diarrhea, spread your malicious rumors to lead the pack of ignorant morons out there the directions you wish to lead them squealing on a full dead out run for the cliffs. They are most likely dumb enough to follow all the time repeating your illogical reasons and excuses.
We, the truer Americans can do nothing against such a dissenting majority as we watch adn shake or heads in disbelieve adn anguish at teh moronic minions in the US who would rather rant and rave than find viable solutions.
Anyone with common sense knows that an inoperative government is a failed government and leading it to a shutdown no matter what your self serving reasons is a failure to the American public.
It will all come out in the wash and 10 years from now, the excuses won't hold, the lies won't mislead as we look back and judge to an extreme those responsible for the collapse.
Fear not now you who believe yourselves untouchable. In the next decade you will be trembling and hiding I am sure.
Spanky,
Thge Red Headed Troll is around, she does have several names she uses on the MSN site; Bev occupies several too. I understand they will be outed shortly. Should be fun, especially where they are employed and by whom.
Madison from NY, in post #1.35 you quote Obama as saying "no boots on the ground in Lybia" and cite a link to a story which supposedly proves your extremely derogatory comment against the president - calling him a pathological liar, because of the fact that CIA agents were sent there (and they're wearing boots that touch the ground). Here's your insulting comment:
The problem Madison, is that the link you gave to back-up your insult does NOT contain the quote (about boots) that you claim it does!
Now I don't know if Obama ever used the phrase "no boots on the ground" or not. But you haven't proven it and I'm not going to do your work for you and try to find something that may not even exist.
So Madison, it's up to you: You must either find and post the correct link, or else people here might conclude that YOU are the pathological liar.
Say, can we get the interest on the debt forgiven during the shut down period?
$5 billion today, $5 billion tomorrow,....
Spanky-
That's my girl Feisty - they are crazy, but Obama and the government blowing through $223 billion last month is totally sane.
Ain't that right Fiesty - no problem with the current path, full steam ahead on the debt train?
Oh Spanky, how do explain The Troubled Assets Relief Program or TARP is in the black; except for the red bankstas gave us on the obscene bonuses? In other word we got scammed by the Robber Barons.
Your thought; please.
True American-2367375
Bev, ....where did you get that crap?....thinkprogress?.....mediamatters?...... scammed.....robber barons......lol
You do notice there is NO video of the rally, because it is quite PEACEFUL, as opposed to those crazy union thugs and protesters-for-hire in Wisconsin and around the country.
Crazy unions? Suddendly teachers, firemen, and other professionals become thugs as opposed to vile signs of t-baggers and kicking women to the ground.
What difference does it make? No matter what source I give you won't believe it.
BTW: I peeped your profile. Since you just got here I wonder do you fall in this group?
Paid Callers for Right Wing Radio Need to be Investigated!
Right wing radio is the GOP's most important media tool. If the GOP is using hired callers and organizing scripted callers for national and local radio talk shows to push referenda, legislation, and candidates and attack others all year around should the money used be included in filings to the Federal Election Commission (FEC)?
The Federal Communication Commission (FCC) needs to know. If it's fraudulent advertising should the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and other federal agencies investigate? Maybe the Better Business Bureau needs to know.
The main national right wing talkers are well coordinated as a unit on a daily basis. The main ones regurgitate much of the same material. They're getting paid millions to sell national GOP and US Chamber of Commerce talking points.
http://www.squattable.com/news/030911/paid-callers-right-wing-radio-need-be-investigated
Does this mean you too get paid by the number of posts or is it clicks?
True: I would like to know what all of these TP people who are rallying and want the government to shut down would think if the government shut down and they wouldn't get their SS check, or their Medicare paid for. This won't happen, but I would like their thoughts on that. They know if the government shuts down, they will still get their bennies. That's what I call hypocrites. They would be crying like a bunch of spoiled children then. If you notice the majority of these people are seniors.
HMMMM.
TARP--- GWB 2008 $700 billion,money paid back to be used for repayment of the debt it incurred. Where did that money go?
I hate to say this but I get the feeling our gal Bev. does not understand what the term "in the BLACK" means.
But I think as long as the government is not invested then private companies should be allowed to pay as much as they want.
For instance there are limits on the amount the Federal government can pay it's employees. But we got the GM ilk getting millions in salary and bonus every year. Shouldn't they be limited to the amount a government worker gets?
Why bev are WE paying the GM execs so much more that, say Obama, who only pulls down $400k?
Beav and Fisty need to get laid! They have been holed up in blow me city hiding from the crime too long.
True American-2367375
Bev.....I got here last fall, before the election, because I was trying to look at all points of view before I made any rash decision about voting...... Too bad you didn't "peep" back far enough to see some of my first posts, where I asked questions and posed diferent takes on issues and was immediately called names and mocked.
Well, then that makes you a right troll still; doesn't it?
Beverly......thou doest protest TOO much.....I think you are so afraid of the Tea Party and Glen Beck you can't sleep at night.
Of course, I am!!! I would never go anywhere near them for fear of my life. All those guns, milita and neo Nazi groups, spitting on Congressmen, stomping a woman to the ground. Don't forget how t-baggers mocked and scorned an apparent Parkinsen's victim telling him "he's in the wrong end of town to ask for handouts", calling him a communist and throwing money at him to "pay for his health care".
I will not sell my soul to be accepted.
I wouldn't go so far to say T-baggers, Glenn Beck and Hannity make me lost sleep; though they are very similar to nightmares.
Me I'm afraid to go to inner city Chicago.
So Bev - how many black Chicago youth have guns and shoot people as compared to Neo Nazi's?
Would you agree that blacks kill a few more or their own than any neo nazi in this country?
Especially in Ill?
True,
No video, but the attached pictures show a lot of gray hair. A group that old will always be peaceful until there is a line to the bathroom or a surprise blue light special announced at K-Mart.
They must all be willing to give up their SS payments and Medicare. I haven't seen any agree to that but as they are all Tea Party Patriots, I'm sure they will make that announcement soon.
google PAID RIGHT WING TROLLS it's amazing how many fit the profile on all these boards. looks like a lot of money is being spent to sway the plublic opinion.
check out TEA PARTY HYPOCRISY over on abcnews.com. i wonder if our tea party congress members will recieve their welfare checks if the government shuts down?
These teabagger thugs have been rioting and damaging public property at the nation's capitol. These thugs need to be hauled off and imprisoned. Don't these people have jobs? These rabble rousers are anti-American.
Sound familiar? It should since the paid Koch Brother's teabagger trolls have been posting this nonsense for months.
Can the hopie changie people read a chart or are they just flying on auto pilot, pretending that the dems increasing thge deficit by 4x is something that Bush did? That song and dance is old and wrong.
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-deficit-in-pictures/
hey bobby, you sure thats the right adress?, i googled heritage .org , it took me to the heritage foundation . i think its some kind of club because its asking me join, with rush limbaugh, sean hannity, david koch and justice thomas as members.
If the DEMOCRAT controlled Congress had done their JOB and passed a BUDGET LAST YEAR.
These people would not be here now...
Point all the fingers you want, but the problem was and is the DEMOCRATS... They are the ones UNABLE to write and pass a budget...
Why pass the budget when most of the ignorant American people voted for the GOP? The Democrat is opening the eyes of those ignorant that they voted against their best interest, and so far there's no question about it.
Tony1974,
Normal DEMOCRAT calling others names & Ignorant.
Because the voters have realized that when if comes to making the hard decisions:
The DEMOCRATS are incompetent when it comes to FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY. They just want to pander to the voters so they can BUY the needed votes... With other peoples money...
The DEMOCRATS just leave the state, when they are faced with a real battle.... Or in Obama's case leave the Country or vote PRESENT when Senator...
these callers who get paid,they hiring?
"The debt stops here," said Mike Pence (R) IN.
What an overstatement! In order to balance the budget (which is required to achieve "the debt stops here") we'd have to cut:
We have tough choices to make and these folks are not being honest with the American people. Do they understand that we have a revenue of $2.1B and we spend $3.5B? Stop screwing around and deal with the problem and quit the smoke screen.
AC, that's a laugh considering the vast majority of the national deficit was brought to us by Reagen, Bush I, and Bush II.
So far, Obama isn't doing better than Bush II. He must want to be added to the list. It will be interesting to see where the deficit is at by November 2012 because if it has crossed $16 trillion dollars by then, Obama does stand a real chance of losing.
The fact is, neither side of the aisle is actually willing to do what it will take to slow the deficit down to a few hundred billion per year. You can totally forget having a balanced budget anytime before the 2020s, especially with the "I shouldn't be taxed at all" Tea Party around.
See, this is what happens when people "home-school" their children. They grow up to be TPers - not knowing a darn thing about basic American history, and what ACTUALLY happens when the government shuts down.
I say let these TPers be the first to stand on their own convictions, and stop THEIR paychecks, healthcare and other perks - paid by our tax dollars. Since they hate government so much, they are forbidden to apply for unemployment, welfare, medicare/medicaid or any of the social services for help.
I'll bet when their stomachs get to growling from not having eaten a meal in days and they have to fight their homeless compadres for half-eaten sandwiches thrown away out back of the local Dennys, and they lose their homes and have to live in homeless tent cities.... they'll be singing a different tune.
People, stop allowing the crazies to monkey around with school text books. These people are a direct product of when you start removing IMPORTANT parts of our American history. Anyone who is "home-schooled" should not be recognized as "school accredited" and certainly should not be allowed to be elected to any local, state or federal positions or ANY "leadership" positions.
Wow, the crazies have definitely taken charge of the asylum... thanks to the SPINELESS GOPer/RepubliCON "leaders" sitting up on their double-wide asses as they allow this small group of nutjobs to over-run Washington and influence how they govern.
Well folks..... you got just what you voted for!
Maybe you missed the tea bag rally for Rand Paul when the campaign coordinator stuck his boot on the throat of a woman who was protesting.
Or when health care reform was being passed - all the baggers spitting on congressman and yelling racial epithets.
Yes - they are so peaceful. LOL! Clowns.
Well True, I am not sure if what you're saying is true, but it is very disingenuous. Of course the raped are going to be more passionate than the rapist.
Sounds like the tea party is wanting the same thing the demoncraps are hoping for - a shut down! The only difference is that the demoncraps want it strictly for political purposes and the tea party are concerned about the spending addicted libs that have got us into this situation and economy!
Hey Mike, not one person was spit upon and no racial language was heard. All videos showed no evidence of any such actions, just a bunch of liberal cry babies! There are hundreds of examples of liberal thuggery to every one from the right! Get a better argument!
Act 2 thank you for having a reply key
My question is has any one looked at the pic of these people? How many are receiving SS and medicare but up there bitching about something that they don't have a clue about.
A great munber of people depend on the government to live each day and these fools (which I seldom use) are supporting the very rich and loving it
Really? Here is a link from your favorite news site...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/21/tea-party-leader-condemns-racial-slurs-hurled-black-lawmakers/
Get a clue.
Mike, it never happened. If it did, ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC and the other obama networks would be opening all their telecasts with the videos. To date there hasn't been one to show spitting or with audio with racial slurs. Steele spoke before he knew the whole story kinda like odumbo and the cops acting stupidly. Steele doesn't have his job anymore as will odumbo in 2012!
bebop Most are older retired people because the bulk of the tea party members are working and paying taxes supporting the lazy odumbo supporters! There is nothing greedier than someone wanting someone else money without working for it!
I just showed you a story by your illustrious fox news and you still think it never happened? Nice reading comprehension genius.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/21/tea-party-leader-condemns-racial-slurs-hurled-black-lawmakers/
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/03/20/politics/main6318517.shtml
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/attytood/Joe_Liebermans_healthcare_plan_for_America.html?jCount=4
http://savannahnow.com/latest-news/2010-03-20/protesters-hurl-racial-slurs-us-rep-lewis-others-over-health-care
Is that enough sources? Actually - I dont care about your answer.
This is what really pi$$es me off with the tea baggers - you put the PROOF in front of their face and they still refuse to see the truth!
I can only hope that all on here stating one crazy thing or the other realize that even if our so called honest elected shut down our government..they, congress, will still get paid...forget the ones on Social Security that have paid in for 30 or more years..so what ..if those on medicaid go without..bet on one item alone,,,not one congressional person will go without for a minute. So, what are they stopping..just whatever involves the general public..no one else .
True,
You are seriously out of touch with reality if you think that the Wisconsin protests aren't peaceful. I live here, okay buddy? I'm telling you firsthand that they are peaceful and respectful demonstrations of the people's right to protest. The damage to the capitol was minimal and overblown by the DOA, which you can read here: as well as here: -- BTW, the Journal Sentinel is a CONSERVATIVE rag of a newspaper, and even they can't refute what giant pricks the Walker Administration is being. Either get to Wisconsin yourself, or get a clue, man. I'm sick of other people making assumptions about my state. Hands off.
Even when Regan was president, there was compromise. Why is compromise so bad? It seems a lot of the budget cuts will only hurt the middle class and the poor which, make up the majority of US citizens.
By the way, I'm going to keep bringing this up - why are the Republicans so determined to cut Planned Parenthood's funding, but they won't cut funding (100 million a year) to NASCAR funding armed forces sponsorship? No one seems to think this is a problem and I would like to hear some opinions.
because NASCAR is not on their checklist--it's not now and hasn't been about the budget.
According to those in Washington DC entitlements must be cut - money is money isn't it? But I'm starting to understand it's all about politics - the "conservatives" must cut Planned Parenthood because of the abortion issue. No conservative in congress cares about what is good for the whole, they just preach abstinence to the young while history shows this does not work. I know that Democrats have their agenda issues too, but at least they don't preach about restraint but offer birth control and Planned Parenthood is usually the first place teens go to for birth control.
Go Tea Party! I'm mad as hell and wont take it any more. Taxes should never have gotten past this statement: "In 1817, however, Congress did away with all internal taxes, relying on tariffs on imported goods to provide sufficient funds for running the government."
Read more: History of the Income Tax in the United States — Infoplease.com #ixzz1IPrSQV00
Right now there's bipartisan agreement on a final $$number for the budget. In fact, the right wing is holding up the process by piling 'riders' onto the proposed bill. Riders are recycled political issues and not budget issues. Do you have children? Do you want to defund the EPA, for example, that monitors our air and water?
Senators like Pence and de Mint are trying shut the government down, at a time when our economy is growing and jobs are coming back. Please tell me again who they say they represent.
Who does the Tea Party represent? It's been funded from the beginning by big Corporations like Exxon and it seems they'll stop at nothing to promote the causes of the very rich. Tea Party members might ask why they are supporting big corporations that don't have their interests at heart.
Beverly has her head in the sand way down deep and can probably see China from where she is at. Regarding her false comments about the "union thugs" in Wisconsin. There has been practically zero violence which is has been indicated time and time again. Considering that over 100,000 people were at some of these protests that are "by the people" and not Tea Partiers bussed in by the Koch brothers. Compare this to the Tea Party protests of the past with Nazi signs. Oh, and we can't forget those bussed in by the Koch brothers again to scream down any constructive discussions on the health care debate. Remember those, people screaming and practically foaming at the mouth about how health care reform will destroy our way of life. And these were small groups compared to the thousands protesting in Wisconsin. And by the way Beverly, NO ONE is paying or forcing the teachers, nurses, firefighters and policemen to protest. They are doing it and fighting for their way of life. Not paid KOCH brother THUGS bussed in. And you talk about big dollar unions, boy lets compare their finances to big business and the Koch brothers with billions of dollars profits. Who is the filthy rich and greedy bad guys now. I know that government is not always the best to run things, but without them big business will step in screw us all. Big business is not in it for the interest of the people, they are in it for the money. If the Republicans would agrees to raise taxes on corporations like Bank of America and other banks and the oil companies which get subsidies, we would cut the deficit real quick. Much faster then breaking the backs of all middle class people. It's corporate welfare we should all be concerned about, not social welfare.
What a bunch of crazies. Wonder how they will feel when their checks don't arrive?
Want to shut it down? fine. shut down the military and save billions a week. Don't pay the benefits and see the screaming., everyone else is a bum....but me is their attitude.
Shut down the EPA and the Nat. Labor Relations board. Big business would love that. They might support it until their job is gone.
Senior citizens complaining about da gummit is like slandering your employer... really stupid. They give you your SS and MEdicare.
mpmorin78
Actually they don't give you your SS.You have paid into it for 30 or more yrs.
And Medicare? The government takes money Out of your S.S. to pay for Medicare and if you want more then they pay for (which is Not eye glasses,Dentist Etc. you have to pay for more coverage from another co.
I got a question for the next Boiler Room. Why does 400 Yahoo's down on the National Mall get more Coverage than 130,000 folks gathering in Madison Wisconsin and why should I care more about what those 400 had to say than what the 130,000 were trying to tell me?
I'll second that, IR, and third and fourth it for good measure!
Independent Redneck Va.
I got a question for the next Boiler Room. Why does 400 Yahoo's down on the National Mall get more Coverage than 130,000 folks gathering in Madison Wisconsin and why should I care more about what those 400 had to say than what the 130,000 were trying to tell me?
Exaclly, IR. I've been wondering that for a good while now.
Because the 400 bought and paid for Koch tea baggers have corporate American traitors and the So called liberal media behind them. Who do they go after, organized labor, education, science, environmentalists, minorities, basically anybody telling the truth, same as the other Nazis of 55 years ago.
I'm with you, IR...why do events on the National Mall get more attention than the Obama Administration telling us that $13 trillion in new gross debt will be added in the next 10 years, along with debt service payments of nearly $1 trillion annually?
You...
Me...
Arm-in-arm, Independent Redneck.
Seems to me that all I saw on TV for about 2 weeks was Wisconsin.
It looks like the gate at the nursing home was left unlocked, give them some teabags to throw in the reflecting pools, tell them they won the revolution, and send them home for a nap. The republican party encouraged the tea party when it was to their political benefit, now the tail might start wagging the dog.
Forrest: I actually thing it was the psychiatric hospital. Didn't Michael Meyers give the "warm up" speech to the crowd ? :~D
They'll all have the last laugh, Forrest.
You and yours (and maybe your children as well) will be picking up their tab for the forseeable future.
You are their indentured servant.
Smile, Forrest, smile that uncomprehending smile...
Oh the teabagger tail is wagging the repulicon dog... they made their bed now they have to sleep in it. I love it!
Our kids will be picking up the tab from before Reagan was president. But dont let the facts stop you.
The answer is simple:
Mixed Bag - if you want to cut down the deficit why not make corporations pay their fair share, or any share for that matter. One reason we are so far in debt is because of the tax cuts the Republicans demanded for millionaires and billionaires and corporations. I don't mind the millionaires and billionaires that much, but some corporations pay zero taxes, and on top of that receive a refund. On top of that we can cut down the deficit by eliminating subsidies to big oil companies who are making record profits. And all these companies saved by TARP (biggest mistake ever) are now paying out record bonuses. If you run any of these major deficit cutting suggestions past a Republican they will flat out ignore you. Hey, why not, that is who is lining their pockets. Good old Gov. Walker from Wisconsin was real friendly when he though he was talking to one of the good old Koch boys who lined his pockets.
unfortunately these people don't know enough about the economy or government to be trustworthy advocates. deficit spending is required, according to most leading economists, to avoid further erosion of the anemic recovery underway. the cuts they demand, ACCORDING TO THE CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET OFFICE, will result in the loss of more than half a million jobs in the next year. the deficit will come down and so will the national debt when we get a handle on our REVENUE problem, the failure of this Republican congress to require a sharing of the costs of government by the ultra-wealthy (Bush tax cuts) and by state administrations who think they will secure new business in the states by cutting corporate taxes, and each others' throats--and make up the differences by cutting wages and programs that are essential to the survival of the middle-class and the unemployed and poor. They are not interested in the economic well-being of the people at large nor in real advances in research and development but rather in just winning the next election cycle so they can get That Man outta here. Their leaders are only interested in keeping them ignorant so they will vote for them in lock-step. Sad but true. Keep education a low priority and you can tell the resulting "graduates" darn near anything. The lie told often enough is believed if you have no intellectual basis to see it.
See, that's the whole thing in a nutshell, opajack....the Republicans who got elected last Nov. pledged that their main focus would be on creating jobs. And, to help them out towards that end, our increasingly-rightwing-leaning president went and extended the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy and the tax incentives for businesses, in the hopes that what the Conservatives preached was the truth. Well, you see all those "help wanted" signs springing up everywhere, don't ya?
In fact, if the CBO is correct in their predictions, the spending cuts proposed by the House will cost millions of jobs. I'm telling you folks right now....if something isn't done in the form of RESPONSIBLE spending cuts (especially in defense spending) along with increased tax revenue (pronounced "No Tax Shelters or Loopholes for the Wealthy"), we'll be in one helluva mess by the end of 2011. And if we can even get to Nov 2012 without being taken over by China, the U.S. voters will respond in record numbers. And the Tea Party will finally get the message that they do NOT speak for the majority of Americans.
2012 will be the year the Middle Class storms back to take back their country!
Two greatest myths of the Republican platform:
1. The recession will be solved by cutting spending... WRONG - every recession has been reversed by increased spending on things that have lasting value NOT by cutting every program they can get their hands on.
2. Tax cuts to the wealthy stimulate the economy... WRONG - they stimulate the luxury economy and leave the remainder in shambles. (survey released today said that 1/3 of small business owners are considering getting out of their chosen business - see how great those tax cuts are trickling down ?)
Ok, I'll bite....
1. So what "things" have we spent on that have lasting value in the past 2 years? The military? A billion in rockets for Lybia? Foreign aid? South American oil drilling? 99 weeks of unemployment? Welfare? I can't really think of ANYTHING off hand.
2. It's going to take a TOTAL remake/simplification of the countries tax system - BOTH personal AND corporate. There's as many loop holes in the present tax code as there are pages. You say rich (and they should pay as we all should) but take a look at how little Corporations pay versus earnings......
This is one of the most absurd posts I've seen in a while a good example of how the left is so mis-guided.
Deficit spending is not required. I would agree that some funding that would directly stimulate private employment might help but that is not what Obama or the Congress is doing. In fact, they are doing the opposite. The extent of Obama's desire to regulate American industry can be described as nothing less than stifling.
Herein lies one of the fundamental differences between you and me. I don't believe we have a revenue problem. I believe we have a spending problem.
And if, like me, you believe we have a spending problem and not a revenue problem you are not inclined to take more money from anyone. In fact it sounds pretty logical to stop taking so much money because they might just go out and buy something... allowing some business to hire someone. And I'm not just talking about the wealthy.
The government is not the answer to our economic problems! The government cannot give everyone a job or provide "programs" to help every person who is struggling as long as it gets its money from its citizens. You fail to give credit where credit is due. Capitolism is what made this country great. Our movement toward socialism (the redistribution of wealth) is largely responsible for our current economic problems. And don't misunderstand me... just about everything Obama/Pelosi/Reid and many others (including some establishement Republicans) are trying to do is nothing more than income redistribution! Pure and simple.
When the left marches in lock-step they are superior? Smarter? More educated? But when the Tea Party folks take an opposing point of view they are ignorant? That is absurd! Don't call people stupid just because you disagree with them. I believe there are some fundamental differences in the way people view the world. I would not call you stupid because you are a socialist. Just mis-guided.
Misuse of "socialist". Again. Let's be honest, here, shall we?
You don't mean "socialist" as some harmless observation of political theory. You mean it as a slur. It is the equivalent of calling someone stupid.
Stupid.
You aren't doing yourself (or your cause) any favors by posting stuff like that.
For those of you that believe in the "tax the wealthy" concept. I took a look at Forbes magazine list of the 400 wealthiest Americans, did a little math on the "net worth" listed, and came up with approximately 2.0 Trillion dollars. Sounds like quite a bit of money to me. Let's follow Michael Moore's idea, and take it all, it doesn't belong to them, it belongs to all of us. Now we've got enough money to cover this year's deficit, and make a down payment on next year's deficit, yippeeee!! The real problem is, that after the first 400, there's not that much left, we're down to about .8 billion in net worth after the first 400, and yet, we still have that great big debt sitting on the books, and the expectation of trillion dollar deficits for the next several years. How are we going to pay for that, now that all those "evil wealthy people" gave us their money (ooops, our money), and we spent it? It's going to take a lot of people with less than a billion in net worth to make up the next debt tranche payment, so let's redefine who the "evil wealthy people"are, maybe it's anyone with more than $500 million in net worth. Hope there's lots of them, because by the time we get to my measly savings, I'd like at least three or four years to spend it myself.
jim in houston is a reaganomic, you know STARVE THE BEAST and TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS . it was started over 30 years ago so we should be seeing the effects any day now.
Yes, those 400 richest Americans wealth = the poorest 150,000,000 Americans wealth!
If you think that is a good thing then you're a teabagger.
Jim in Houston--sadly just saying facts aren't so doesn't make it so. The facts of history are not on your side. The facts of the business cycle are ignored at our peril. The fact is that government IS in fact the most efficient vehicle for maintaining the social safety net. Have you given up on that? The old, sick, poor, crippled, mentally ill, born brain-damaged--chuck 'em out. Let the charities cover them--the most inefficient method as shown by the numbers. OOPs, numbers inconvenient? Ignore them. People victimized by banks, mortgage lenders--don't look to the government to regulate the economy. If you're too poor or too stupid to be rich--that is not MY fault after all. I am not looking for socialist redistribution of the means of production, just for everyone who benefits from the society to kick in a proportional and appropriate amount of their benefits to keep the whole thing moving. Since the Reagan tax cuts, the gap between the top tier and the bottom tier has gotten only wider. I guess that's the trickle UP theory. I know this takes some deep thought. It's worth it.
Opajack...
I am not heartless as you seem want to characterize me. I just believe in individual rights, a strong work ethic and a limited government. And I don't trust the government. I don't know how old you are and am not asking but when I was younger I believed the government should be the ultimate arbiter of what is just and right. My evolution has brought me to the point of understanding that a limited government is essential (look at China, the Middle East, and many other places that don't enjoy the freedom that we do). It distresses me that so many people put their faith and trust in a bigger and more powerful government. This country was founded by people who fled opressive leaders and has been a harbinger of people of similar origins since. I have lived long enough to see this country decline significantly. And it bums me out. The left has cultivated a debate centered around class warfare. Rather than inspiring people to achieve we now inspire people to take from others. We are in a state of decline that surely signals the end unless we change our ways.
BTW, I have not been exposed to these boards for a very long and I am seeing they are heavily populated with partisan warriors. Perhaps this is an exercise in futility.
Jim You will to bet your life that the Republicans are right? You willing to bet, if the Republicans keep killing the government the Great Depression won't happen? Republicans are for a Great Depression, because a Great Depression benefits the most wealthy in this nation. The reason why this nation hasn't made a turn around is because business owns the government.
INVESTORS CAN'T INVEST IN AN ECONOMY WITHOUT AMPLE CONSUMER DEMAND.
THE GOVERNMENT IS ONE GIANT CONSUMER, WHEN CONSUMERS WON'T CONSUME.
CONSUMER DEMAND MUST BE BALANCE WITH INVESTOR DEMAND OR THE ECONOMY SUCKS. You either get inflation when too many dollars are chasing too few products, or you get deflation when too few dollars are chasing too many products. Free Trade disturbed the consumer and investor demand squarely in favor of the investor. Just look at Wall Street almost record highs and record profits, yet wage earners/consumers can't seem to make it. The natural economy will fight like supply and demand to make consumer and investors balance. Great Depressions happen when investors screw the consumers. If we cut the government off, the giant consumer, we will go off a cliff and land flat on our faces.
You mean the unbridled capitalism that allowed savings banks to also be investment banks and tank every 401K in the immediate area? Or how about the capitalism that allowed banks to hedge risk with derivatives and then crumbled because the derivatives they purchased couldnt handle the defaults? Or how about the credit default swaps that allowed banks to make money on people defaulting on their loans - capitalism right?
And boogie man socialism - really? because its better to spend money on wars instead of our own people.
too true... It's well known that you NEED to keep people employed in a recession. One way or another you need to keep people working. If you don't this is what happens: people get laid off, household budgets are strained, marriages are on the rocks, families could be ripped apart, crime ensues (possibly murder), public drunkenness, gangs and mobs, vigilantism...
If you don't pay wages you're gonna have to pay unemployment - Your choice.
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nor am I doing myself a disservice by pointing out you're just as big an assh*le as the other person you're feigning indignity to, if not slightly more hypocritical.
I was going to cue your "gee, I'm outnumbered on this Newsvine" routine that you seem to fall back on but you already played that card a few posts up.
So, instead, here's a question for you and yours: if you dislike the leftists and MSNBC so much, why do you keep coming back? Do I sense a bit of a masochist streak in y'all?
Why do you resort to this kind of name calling?
I never said I dislike MSNBC. In fact, it has been my homepage for as long as I can remember. It is the primary place I go online to read the news. I will admit though that I don't particularly care much for newsvine bullies who go around calling people names just because they have a different point of view.
... and we now come full circle. Just because you aren't filter-dodging does NOT mean that you aren't (attempting) to be insulting. I maintain that your use of the word "socialism" and all phrasings derived from the base word, is intended as an insult.
In other words, you do in fact call people names when their opinions differ from yours.
I'm sorry but you are wrong. My use of the term socialist was never meant as an insult. It was intended to describe one who advocates the redistribution of wealth. If you took it as an insult that is your problem.
Have a good one.
Overlord,
You missed the point of my posting entirely. The point is, that the top 400, which everyone here deplores, and looks at as though taxing them will solve all our problems, have roughly 2 trillion dollars of net worth, not income, Take the two trillion, they've got nothing, and we've covered the deficit for one plus years. What do you intend to do after that?
Instead of reading my post, and attempting to grasp the information presented, you choose to insult me (at least in your mind) and presume that I'm a "teabagger". Sorry, I'm not even a member of the Tea Party, but you feel free to live out your life in whatever delusional world fits best.
Have a great weekend.
Okay, a few hundred people attending, right? There are more people at many City Council meetings when they're considering changing the dog ordinances. Why then, must the main stream press give these tin foil hat people the public megaphone?
Believe it or not, there has been a seismic shift in grassroots politics in this country - its called the Labor Movement! Follow that instead!
The Tea Partiers may now be realizing they have been hoodwinked by their newly-elected representatives who aren't looking to cut taxes and save job as they are to give tax cuts to corporate cronies and dredge up old wedge issues. (Oh yeah, they're all about that "birther" ballyhoo, too!)
2008 was The New Hope! 2010 was about The Right Wing Strikes Back! 2012 will see the Revenge of the Worker! Your viewing public will be better served if you take the spotlight off of Bachmann and her band of loonies and focus instead on the real uprising happening in the heartland.
Terrific post, sjm9337.
The middle class workers have had enough. Anyone who thinks this isn't a movement is wrong--this started from the bottom and continues to grow. Candidate Obama often said that change happens from the bottom up and it is.
Awesome post - Labor has a long and storied past where people really did give up their lives for the cause.
Labor movements come from the heart - the Tea Party is much shallower - all about money and greed.
Now that it has been awoken Labor will CRUSH the Tea Party.
Unions Make America Strong
daryl: Interesting thought. I wonder if there is any direct relationship between the JBS and the Tea Party. That would be good to find out.
Hey MSNBC, any good investigative reporters out there ?
dirp101 the billionare koch brothers father was one of the founding members of the john birch society. the koch brothers fund the tea party.
Jody
The middle class workers have had enough. Anyone who thinks this isn't a movement is wrong--this started from the bottom and continues to grow
So this movement is good, Tea Party movement is bad. OK, got it. I agree the middle class has had enough. But what middle class are you referring to.
The Tea Party middle class or the Labor Unions middle class?
Labor union account for less than ten percent of the working force. yet they are blamed for the countries problems. Sounds like big business BS to me.
R. Scalzo
It's corporate fascism. That's what it REALLY is!
BINGO!!!!
All 400 Tea Partiers, in one place. Imagine that.
Wonder if DeMint and friends told the crowd that they won't be getting their social security or their tax refunds anytime soon; that the doctors and hospital bills for those on medicare won't be paid; or that the military won't have any money; the private contractors won't be paid; and to top it off, it will cost the Government more money than all the spending cuts the GOP/TP has made. Nope, why tell them the truth and ruin their fantasy of "shutting down Government".
Nice try there Bachmann no the shutdown is your baby. Can't you hear the chants? Those are you constituents that are shouting to "Shut it Down!" Sorry, but this is your baby.
oh baby ... this is gonna be fun. I'm kinda liberal and I can't WAIT to see the gummit shut down. Not because I want to see it shut down but can't wait for the backdraft effect it will cause against those people.
Bachmann is the biggest liar and she is so hateful.This country is in trouble and instead of us pulling together and start to straighten it out.She just can not accept we have a black president.Look into her background,tax lawyer and big corporations have her bought and paid for.Tea party will be her ending.Watch the nut bag,I hope all the people in Minnesota are not like her.Glad to live in Maryland.
Shouldn't the headline be: "Koch Paid Employees Shout Shut It Down"?
Bad news for Boehner. If there is a government shutdown, this guarantees that the Republicans will be to blame for it.
Maybe Boehner will go get a tan and start balling like a baby,again.
I agree... shut it down,, stop their pay , give them a break to go home and find real jobs. All of them
But then how will the "electee" get their ripoffs?
Please. please, make the shutdown stop all Social Security and Medicare payments. We will see how the TP folks like that shared sacrifice. At least they won't be out carrying signs, they'll all be at work.
I'm not a fan of the Tea Parties, but nasty comments about living in single wides doesn't do much to lend credibility to your viewpoint. You have plenty of really good facts on your side to use. Notice how Rachel Maddow gets her point across while always being very respectful and courteous?
daryl: the only government assistance you get for housing if you are a TP'er is medicaid for your room at the local psych. hospital. :)
And I agree with Clotho, if we don't get rid of these Teapublicans, renting out single wides will be the new middle class mansions. The poor will truly be resticted to the tin shacks.
Jody....
First, and foremost, you are full of crap!!!!!
If the gov shutters, the SS checks will keep coming, the tax refunds will keep coming, the folks will continue to get their medicare.
Do you not pay attention at all? This gov gets $200b+ per month in revenue which is plenty enough to keep the important parts of the gov running. The military has its money and so does most of the rest of the gov.
What will happen is that national parks will close (no big deal to me), maybe Amtrak will only run on the tracks where they make money, maybe the USPS will not deliver mail on Saturdays, maybe NPR, NEA, Etc., will not get their monthly checks. Maybe about 10 million+ of the boards and commissions will not get their monthly stipend (especially the tomato and potato boards). Maybe the Agr substities will be delayed and maybe even the fed welfare and food stamps will be delayed.
I think we will make it just fine if the gov shutters....
Just Saying...
And of course teabagger fan, if things like National Parks, the crown jewels of America are not important to YOU, well THEN, shut them down. I have a feeling you will be singing a different song if something you care about IS affected. But, that is the "teabaggers" for you. Again; their motto? " Don't tread on me, let ME tread on THEE."
newday...
Did you have something to say? If so, I did not read anything of substance in your response. Yea, when I have to compare the national parks to other parts of the gov, you're right, they will really have to suck the hind teat. Right now, other than defense, I think most other things are less important, especially the socialist cradle-to-grave entitlement give-away programs....
Just Saying...
And when the next natural disaster strikes a teabagger state as they typically do - please, please stop the federal disaster relief funding...
first ones to whine and moan about gov't spending but first in line with their hands out when the chips are down...
complete hypocrites
Then "teabagger" go back and read my post. I do realize that most of you have difficulty reading, but I was very clear about what I said: Let me be more blunt: "teabaggers" do not have the capability to understand that the demands they are making will take this country down. Jefferson; (you have heard of Thomas Jefferson, have you not, I don't think the "teabaggers" have taken him out of ALL the history books yet?) worried about a similar group of nuts in his day. Two things he thought would cost us the country, religious nuts getting control of government, and corporate nuts doing the same. You "teabaggers" are trying to bring Jefferson's worst nightmare, and the thing he fought hardest to stop to fruition. You are the antithesis of patriotic and ought to be ashamed of yourselves. Is that direct enough for you? Now, go to your nearest Community College and take classes on American History and Government. That is, if YOU are capable of learning.
Amen, Homer!
Thanks, Tea Party Fan. Appreciate the snarky, nastiness in your comment; I mean you couldn't possibly have pointed out I might be wrong without resorting to insults.
I pay a whole lot more attention that many and probably more than you do. Just pointing out what could happen and yes, it could happen just as I described but Government makes every effort to not allow it to happen. I'm well aware that the social security checks will come for a time but don't count on those tax refunds; and don't count on a lot of other things either. Shutting down Government is serious--it's not a game. Have a nice day, Tea Party Fan.
TeaParty fan: That is the problem, these people know their medicare , SS, and the rest of their bennies will continue. So they don't care about a shutdown. If those bennies didn't continue they would be singing a different tune. Sort of like the TPers holding up their signs that said "Government, don't touch my Medicare". Wonder who they think pays their Medicare.
TP fan: okay, if the government shuts down, no one works. If no one works, no checks get printed, no money out the door. Government is funny that way, you do need people to tell the computers to do what you want them to do. Personally, if I was to authorize a shutdown, I would start with the social security checks. I know this would hurt my mother, as well as many others who depend on this. However, nothing would move the government faster than to have Washington DC shut down because it was inundated by elderly.
Didn't the last constitutional convention come about as a result of just such a movement, i.e. unpaid veterans lead by someone named Shay.
The key phrase in your post "no big deal to me". If you were a park ranger, the closure of national parks would certainly be a "big deal" to you. And in areas that rely on NP tourists to support the local economy, it would be a "big deal". If you were an Amtrak employee, it would be a "big deal" if a chunk of lines were shut down, and it would be a "big deal" to services and businesses in a symbiotic relationship with those lines. The military will still go to work, but many missions rely on civilian support staff that will be considered "non-essential". In a small town that relies on the base/post to stimulate or support the local economy, it would be a "big deal" to small business owners, utility companies, and the real estate market when half the population of said base/post is suddenly not able to pay bills. Sure, the shutdown may only last a short time, but can smaller communities afford that? Look outside your personal bubble. It's NOT *JUST* ABOUT YOU!
Teabagger....
Does it matter that you have clean ,drinkable water,breathable air,untainted food.Does it matter to still have an agency such as OSHA to protect you?Does it still matter to you that you have people to pick up your garbage or anyone to answer the 911 switchboard?Does it matter to you if that pesky minimum wage thing is around or child labor laws? Seeing the rationale of some of the tea Party base is like seeing the theme of the movie "Idiocracy" coming true right before my eyes.Keep following complete idiots like Bachmann,Angle and Palin and you will get a whole new country all right...
"Teabaggers". This is a word that is going to wind up in the dictionary. The meaning will be as follows: A group of undereducated people who talk a lot about the Constitution, and have never read it. Also, this same group that wants to establish a theocracy in America. Lack of insight, tribalism at its core. No knowledge that minority rights are protected by the Constitution. (See Equal Protection Clause) Haters of anyone who does not have the limited view of the world that they do, particularly people of color.
Yep, this is exactly the group of people that we want gathering and making demands.
So over 5 million strong & there just idiots, not real Americans, like you great progressive liberal freaks!!!
Over 5 million strong? I doubt it very much, and Greg, learn to spell.
Greg can you please tell me what you think a Real American is? I didnt realize that there were fake Americans out there.
How about someone who doesn't want to see our kids having to service debt at $1 trillion plus per year.
How exactly is that going to work Pirate? We gonna pay that debt by slashin' throats and getting booty?
How about you NewDay, you good with adding more debt? How much is you threshold? You are good with no reduction in spending - the government spends just the right amount?
Why are liberals so condensending
Gerard Alexander
Every political community includes some members who insist that their side has all the answers and that their adversaries are idiots. But American liberals, to a degree far surpassing conservatives, appear committed to the proposition that their views are correct, self-evident, and based on fact and reason, while conservative positions are not just wrong but illegitimate, ideological and unworthy of serious consideration.
This condescension is part of a liberal tradition that for generations has impoverished American debates over the economy, society and the functions of government -- and threatens to do so again today, when dialogue would be more valuable than ever.
Fits like a glove.
Pretty condescending post, theotas, so tell me, why are "teabaggers" so condescending? Hmmm? Though I believe the lack of sophistication is worse.
Sophistication - a person, ideas, tastes, manners. I going to respectively disagree.
*yawn*
Another rinse - spin & repeat out of thetotas!
And they claim it's the liberals who have no original ideas... LMAO!
The righties must be getting pretty desperate for material this is the second rerun they've posted today!
newdayDAWNING: You really do enjoy "squirmishing" with these teabagging Palin worshippers. Fun reading for the rest of us.
Hey Paul! The thing the "teabaggers" can't get is that they are supporting things that the real Boston Tea Party fought against...that is corporate monopoly and control of government. I think I am getting impatient with it. But, I hope you have spring where you are, and if you do, send it my way. 8 foot drifts in the pasture still, snowed today, and up to 7 inches Sunday. I think I'll run away!
@ Greg: so just because there are 5 million (so you say) Tea Partiers...that means they're "right"? 7.6 million people watched the Jersey Shore season finale last week...does that mean they're not idiots? Just because 7.6 million people like Jersey Shore?
Or could it be that someone is just really good at PR & advertising (or fear-mongering, depending on your view). Wave a few hot-button issues in the face of uninformed masses vulnerable to the trappings of media over-excitement and viola! A movement is born.
You forgot to mention the teabaggers didn't bother to read the bible either.
"I going to respectfully disagree" REALLY theotas? Thanks for making my point so graphic.
You liberals just can't stop complaining & blaming. Funny thing is most of America does not think you guys are on the right path & most of know that you guys just think you know what's best for all of us. When you can't answer a question to you guys, you duck it & make snide comments. Wow brilliant moves or lame, your thoughts!!!
Are you asleep or something, its both the right and the left that do the same exact thing that they blame each side for doing? When are we actually going to get people in office that are more concerned about the issues this country is facing then weather or not they or thier side gets on over on the other or what they can do or say to get re-elected?
Republican or democrate they are all the same in how they act and our country is the one suffering.
Right, because conservatives NEVER try to foist their ideals or "morals" on anyone. Please.
Come to the Rally free punch for all!
Absolutely - Shut this down. No Dept. of Energy (Total Failure) No Dept. of Education ( Extreme Failure), and about 1000 others. Go to www.usa.gov and look at this abomination. (Administration on aging, administration of native americans - WTF??) We'd save billions and hundreds of billions in pensions for these folks. Shut - it - down!!! No more money, time or effort. Move these bureaucrats into the private sector and get them off their butts!
Cut the military in hald and save billions. We are paying billions every week to fund the lost causes in two wars that those starting it had no clue about ending it. Mission Accomplished was years ago. why are we still there?
Cut the expensive toys..oh wait, big business makes billions off them. Those same benefits are paid to the retired military. Generous benefits. Going to start cutting them? Stop those checks from going out. All i see is business destroying any ability to retain any worker's rights. most of those losing the rights are no union workers but middle class working stiffs.
Big business just closed a profitable company here in NH. they plan of moving mmuchof the production to China to make a few more bucks. Thanks Smith & Wesson. No wonder you are going under.
Boehner, Bachmann, Cantor, and a cast of GOP/TP co-workers have been saying a Government shutdown will be the fault of democrats. Wonder if any of the GOP/TP legislators attending this Tea Party rally realize that standing in a crowd of 400 shouting "Shut it Down, Shut it Down" will reflect badly on them. I mean, if the TPers are telling them to shut it down and they do, it's pretty clear which party will get the blame--in full color, too.
What a bunch of total liars - all the Republican speakers at this event - "we don't want to shut the government down..."
Nonsense - that's the very point of your entire platform - remember Republicans ? Smash the gov't, cut the gov't, eliminate the gov't... "reduce it to the size where it can be drowned in a bathtub..." remember that one ?
At least have the GUTS to say what you really want to do - government of the corporations, for the corporations, by the corporations... Everyone else ? Well, you figure it out on your own...
Homer,Then you forgot jobs and corporate tax.The coorporate tax in this country is the highest at 35% but we all know they paid 0 this year.I guess they actually believe the BS that they throw out.My eyes are wide open. USUNCUT.ORG read my blog story Dave the dad.Middle class unite.Bachmann you lying piece of crap.
There are going to be rallies all over the country tomorrow to protest the republican anti worker stand. What you can bet we can beat the 200 that showed up at the teabagger gathering?
Hey Laura,
Gatta link for locations? Thanks.
Yes, I do!!! http://local.we-r-1.org/login.
So happens I will be there in the area for a night gig, so will attend. Thank you for the help!
Peace
Which one are you going to?
The american economy boat is taking on water fast and sinking. The Democrats want to keep bailing water and have everyone to hold two pails and stand on deck. The Republicans think the best way to get the water out is to drill more holes in the hull, and the Tea Party apparently think its best to just sail it into the rocks.
Best comment I read today...cheers!!!
I'm glad that they are having rallies, even though they are puny. These people only want to destroy America and shutting it down is fine with them. I just worry about people who count on the government. I used to love tea and now I want to throw up when I see it as it reminds me of these greedy, selfish, thugs that only care about themselves! Racist, ignorant, old people is what I usually see and they can't be informed or have a degree in anything, but Greed!
The politicians who got elected because they promised to do something about jobs and the economy have not done anything about the jobs and the economy. Instead, they went after NPR, Planned Parenthood, unions and a number of other institutions they had an ideological problem with. Now they want to increase unemployment and slow the economic recovery in order to fulfill their commitment to an ideology that has simply not worked in the past. And the shills for the corporations are there, and here, urging them on.
If some of the pro-TP commentary here says anything it is that the search for signs of intelligent life in the Republican Tea Party continues. Stay tuned!
The Koch Brothers bought themselves another rally did they now? I think this tactic is getting quite old as more folks with brains understand what is happening to them. If Michelle Bachman wants the government to shut down then lets start with her health insurance and paycheck. Stupid is as stupid does.
Boy, the Koch boys didn't get much bang for their buck if only 400 showed up. Must be a good early bird special at the local diners.
t.marino; don't forget michelle bachman and other gop/tp get government welfare in the form of farm subsidies, just saw it on abcnews.com under "tea party hypocrisy" newday; the koch brothers have two supreme court justices in their pocket, they got they got alot of bang for their buck on that one google koch and supreme court justices. while your at it check out how justice thomas got married at rush limbaugh's house. then check out what justice thomas's wife is up to. it's a small world, have fun.