C.I.A. in Libya Aiding Rebels, U.S. Officials Say

WASHINGTON — The Central Intelligence Agency has inserted clandestine operatives into Libya to gather intelligence for military airstrikes and make contacts with rebels battling Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi’s forces, according to American officials.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/31/world/africa/31intel.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss&src=ig

Lafayette, we are #%@!ed...

Here are the differences between George W. Bush’s invasion of Iraq in 2003 and the current United Nations action in Libya:

1. The action in Libya was authorized by the United Nations Security Council. That in Iraq was not. By the UN Charter, military action after 1945 should either come as self-defense or with UNSC authorization. Most countries in the world are signatories to the charter and bound by its provisions.

2. The Libyan people had risen up and thrown off the Qaddafi regime, with some 80-90 percent of the country having gone out of his hands before he started having tank commanders fire shells into peaceful crowds. It was this vast majority of the Libyan people that demanded the UN no-fly zone. In 2002-3 there was no similar popular movement against Saddam Hussein.

3. There was an ongoing massacre of civilians, and the threat of more such massacres in Benghazi, by the Qaddafi regime, which precipitated the UNSC resolution. Although the Saddam Hussein regime had massacred people in the 1980s and early 1990s, nothing was going on in 2002-2003 that would have required international intervention.

4. The Arab League urged the UNSC to take action against the Qaddafi regime, and in many ways precipitated Resolution 1973. The Arab League met in 2002 and expressed opposition to a war on Iraq. (Reports of Arab League backtracking on Sunday were incorrect, based on a remark of outgoing Secretary-General Amr Moussa that criticized the taking out of anti-aircraft batteries. The Arab League reaffirmed Sunday and Moussa agreed Monday that the No-Fly Zone is what it wants).

5. None of the United Nations allies envisages landing troops on the ground, nor does the UNSC authorize it. Iraq was invaded by land forces.

6. No false allegations were made against the Qaddafi regime, of being in league with al-Qaeda or of having a nuclear weapons program. The charge is massacre of peaceful civilian demonstrators and an actual promise to commit more such massacres.

7. The United States did not take the lead role in urging a no-fly zone, and was dragged into this action by its Arab and European allies. President Obama pledges that the US role, mainly disabling anti-aircraft batteries and bombing runways, will last “days, not months” before being turned over to other United Nations allies.

8. There is no sectarian or ethnic dimension to the Libyan conflict, whereas the US Pentagon conspired with Shiite and Kurdish parties to overthrow the Sunni-dominated Baathist regime in Iraq, setting the stage for a prolonged and bitter civil war.

9. The US has not rewarded countries such as Norway for entering the conflict as UN allies, but rather a genuine sense of outrage at the brutal crimes against humanity being committed by Qaddafi and his forces impelled the formation of this coalition. The Bush administration’s ‘coalition of the willing’ in contrast was often brought on board by what were essentially bribes.

10. Iraq in 2002-3 no longer posed a credible threat to its neighbors. A resurgent Qaddafi in Libya with petroleum billions at his disposal would likely attempt to undermine the democratic experiments in Tunisia and Egypt, blighting the lives of millions.

I thought we were supposed to be shielding civilians from harm and not acting as the air force for the rebels. What you suggest is the same as arming them.

There are unconfirmed reports that thousands of Chadian Republican Guards have joined Gadaffis troops. If confirmed, I say we destroy a few Chadian military facilities. We need to build combat robots for situations like this.

More traffic at that reactor in Japan than on this thread...

dangerfield -

I just now had a chance to get back to FR since First Thoughts and was surprised myself to see a whopping eight comments on this thread in like two hours. Maybe nobody knows who that guy "West" is in the headline. Maybe if it was "Palin considers" or if they could have tied the Libyan rebels to immigration or birth certificates or something - most days you can't beat the traffic numbers on those threads.

Oh, and if you're wondering about my opinion on this issue, it's the same as on the whole situation in Libya in general - I just don't know. Not enough facts yet and still not sure of the big picture. Not that that's ever been a criteria for posting on a blog, of course.

I will say that I was struck by the films on NBC Nightly News last night of the rebels retreating, and I think it was Richard Engel's comment that it looked more like a desert road rally than any kind of organized army - a bunch of beat-up pickup trucks and station wagons racing around in circles with "soldiers" clinging on for dear life with one hand and firing makeshift weapons with the other. It was pretty amazing footage.

Does that mean we should be arming them? Damned if I know. You?

Better hope the President knows, JoAnne.

Don't get mad, dangerfield...

I couldn't resist.

I'm quite confident that the President knows as much or more than anyone else in the world about this, MB. I suspect his security clearance is a lot higher than mine is. And he actually gets to sit in on those intelligence briefings and meetings with the military and the State Department and phone calls to all those other world leaders and all.

I don't. When you're not busy trying to be patronizing, do you?

J-

We will arm them, right or wrong, if history is any guide. "In for a penny, in for a pound" has been the way things like this go. You really think that the President's "intel" and security clearance means that he "knows" what's behinds the curtain? Keep the faith!

MB-

If I were him I'd be chain-smoking camels and flipping a coin 100 times...Frying pan meet fire...

Yesterday, Secty Clinton held her FIRST "meet and greet" with the Lybian rebel leaders. Clinton said we were trying to "get to know them" and understand their needs. She said that they seemed liked nice people who were determined to bring democracy to Libya. First meeting. Getting to know them. Asess their neeeds. Seemed like nice people. Yep...intel at it's very best. As Dangerfield said, keep the faith.

"Keep the faith"? Me? You guys'll never know just how ironic that is. :)

It would appear that I'm hated and scorned here at First Read.

I must be doing something right.

dangerfield-

It's been forever since I enjoyed a smoke...

You weren't talking about enjoyment, though, were you?

"...it's been forever since I enjoyed a smoke...

You weren't talking about enjoyment, though, were you?"

______________________________________________________________________________________________

No, more comfort or, "self-medicating" as they say in the trade. I would literally bet my home on the fact that he's lighting one up right now...

People love "madmen" the tv series because everyone drinks highballs at lunchtime, smokes like a chimney and eats steak like they never even heard of cholesterol (because they haven't) or triple bypass surgery. I think many are living vicariously through through the characters.

And you are not hated and scorned here at First Read, from what I've read it's more like despised and disdained, but just as paranoids can have real enemies, even the social leper can have an entire colony of cohorts...:)

dangerfield...

I'm no longer a young man.

If you have any regard for me at all...don't post stuff like that.

I was paralyzed with paroxysms of laughter...

It could have been fatal.

I thought you liked me.

:-)