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COLUMBUS, Ohio -- If Ohio's bill is the most ambitious attempt to limit public workers' collective bargaining rights -- and it is, much more far-reaching than Wisconsin's -- where are the throngs of protestors?
For one thing, Columbus, OH, does not have the tradition of liberal activism that Madison, WI, does. But more significantly, Ohio unions have one more tool that their Wisconsin brothers and sisters don't: Ballot referendum.
That allows Ohio union leaders to follow a different -- and, some say, wiser -- strategy. They acknowledge there is no way to stop this law in the legislature; the Republicans, quite simply, have the votes. So they are focusing on a petition drive to get a ballot referendum to repeal the law on the November ballot.
As a result, they say they'll have a "presence" at the Statehouse today, but no rally, no formal protests. Instead, they are already working on a big rally to kick off the petition drive on Saturday, April 9.
Wisconsin judge issues warning
NBC’s Domenico Montanaro writes: In Wisconsin, there was this striking development… The Wisconsin State Journal: “If it wasn't clear last time, Dane County Circuit Judge Maryann Sumi made it clear on Tuesday: Any further implementation of Gov. Scott Walker's law limiting public employee unions is barred, and anyone who violates her order risks sanctions. … ‘Now that I've made my earlier order as clear as it possibly can be, I must state that those who act in open and willful defiance of the court order place not only themselves at peril of sanctions, they also jeopardize the financial and the governmental stability of the state of Wisconsin,’ Sumi said. Her statement appeared to be a warning to state agencies, such as the state Department of Administration, that have begin implementing the union bill despite a temporary restraining order that Sumi issued on March 18 and the unsettled question about whether publication of the law by the Legislative Reference Bureau on Friday was enough to implement the law. ‘Apparently that language was either misunderstood or ignored, but what I said was, ‘the further implementation of 2011 Wisconsin Act 10 is enjoined,' Sumi said. ‘That's what I now want to make crystal clear.’” …
“Assembly Speaker Jeff Fitzgerald was disappointed by the ruling. ‘It's disappointing that a Dane County judge wants to keep interjecting herself into the legislative process with no regard to the state constitution,’ He said. ‘Her action today again flies in the face of the separation of powers between the three branches of government.’”
The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel: “For the second time in less than two weeks, a Dane County judge Tuesday issued an order blocking the implementation of Gov. Scott Walker's plan to curb collective bargaining for public workers. Dane County Judge Maryann Sumi said that her original restraining order issued earlier this month was clear in saying no steps should be take to advance the law. The GOP governor's administration did so after the bill was published Friday by a state agency not named in Sumi's earlier temporary restraining order.”
Leave a Comment:
Interesting, Gov. Scott Walker has the key and is still fumbling in his pocket because he can't find it.
All he has to do is obey the law of the land. Oh, the other hand with the ballot initiative for Kaecish in Ohio is the best way for he and the other Koch Brother suckers to listen to the people.
Why wouldn't the crossed-eyed weasel Governor think he's above the law?
After all,he's got the Koch Brothers unlimited resources waiting to post bail!
Can't wait to see what slimey trick he pulls next!
You know why Walker tried to violate the judge's order, right? He thought he could mutter "activist judge, activist judge" over and over again, click his heels together, and presto! The ruling would go away!
Walkers' position is 'ain't no judge gonna tell me what to do, especially a woman'!
...and further more, I got Koch!
Just like a jug-eared president?
We aren't going to roll over any longer for the authoritarians. We recognize that they will not compromise under any circumstances and that the Conservative attack on the middle class has escalated dramatically with the new GOPTP politicians. The sleeping giant has awakened.
Yes in Ohio we can overturn a law at the ballot box but we cannot recall an elected official like Wisconsin can.
We need to be able to do both.
Beverly:
That IS NOT the law of the land....lol......That is equivalent to a restraining order. She has interjected herself into legislative affairs from what I have read on several sources.
JohnB:
Your right about the sleeping giant. Republicans woke up and realized they won and compromise is a choice for them alone to make. Democrats do not compromise when they are in power. They push Democratic agenda items through. All of a sudden now that they are the minority, the whining starts about compromise.
You sound like a drama queen with all of this attack on the middle class talk. What has been attacked in your household?
John, you must be kidding. Sleeping giant? I hardly think twelve per cent of any body of people could be called "gigantic".
Loud. Rude. Big political donors. But giant? Hardly.
As to this judge- this was the same woman who looked at teachers who had called out sick in order to protest at the state capital, and did not recognize a wildcat strike when there was one right in front of her face. I do believe she will be given an explanation of the law by a higher court. Maybe somebody could send her a book on what co stitutes a strike, as well. She seems to need one.
Sorry to get off track here, but I'm in Italy, and the times difference sort of necessitates it. How many of you have seen Obama's latest Carteresque policy?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/president-obama-to-call-for-one-third-cut-to-oil-imports/2011/03/29/AFFy3O1B_story.html?hpid=z3
So, goody. Oil process are already through the roof. He plans to cut supply. The middle east is already in chaos- the root cause being rising food prices due to shortages. Obama plans to cut the food supply even more, by increasing ethanol production.
Does Nobel give out prizes for blind determination to stick to failed policies? Maybe they can swap him for the one they gave him he did not earn. Cause, boy, does he take the prize for stuck on stupid.
Dennis:
You do realize that recall goes both ways. When Democrats are in power do you want Republicans running around trying to recall all of the politicians you voted for?
Republicans do not have time for this type of nonsense. Only Democrats seem to have a lot of time on their hands for protests and recall petitions etc.....
Beverly:
That IS NOT the law of the land....lol......That is equivalent to a restraining order. She has interjected herself into legislative affairs from what I have read on several sources.
It's on the books in Wisconsin ; genius.
BTW: I hope the judge throws the books at his crooked @aa
Tens of thousands show up at the Wisconsin statehouse day after day for WEEKS, peaking over 100,000 on multiple occasions, and the authoritarians scoff that it's no big deal.
Average Americans = no big deal.
The wealthy elite = VERY big deal for the Conservative Movement.
Now this is funny!
NJNB is supposedly in Milano *wink wink*
One of the most beautiful cities in the world, and yet, she is so DRIVEN by her hatred of this President she's can't pry her fingers away from the laptop! LMAO!
Newsflash NJNB - First Read doesn't require your participation to continue!
I know one thing, if I was in Milan, the very LAST thing I would be thinking about is posting on First Read!!
Then again, I have a fulfilling life that includes friends! ;o)
ITM,
Yes I do. If voters can obtain enough votes to remove any elected from office then it must be the will of the people which is what America should stand for. Agree ??
True. So why doesn't he?
The answer is obvious. He no longer has the votes to pass the bill again.
Surprise, surprise.
Say, Feisty, do you suppose that nj will stay away from the "choo choo twains" that she hates? Or will she discover, like the rest of the world, how convenient and economical they are in Europe? That is IF she is in Italy.
Feisty:
I was thinking the same thing. Make you an even bet she never went to Milano, just another delusion. As she has no credibility, one cannot believe a thing she says. Could give her a call in Lincroft...
This is part of a speech given last night @ Cornell University by Keith O. One of the few people in the media who is a friend of labor.
In just under three months in office, Governor Walker has managed to turn a five or six point favorable margin into a five or six point unfavorable margin because he forgot that there were also Republican union members.
Once again, the strongest defense of the staples of our democracy is not vigilance, not intrepid reporting, not dedicated public service, but the stupidity of Conservatives who will never settle for two-thirds of everything. They want the rest of it too. The whole premise of being Republican is the awful thought that somewhere, some poor person has a dollar that some rich person actually deserves.
Mistake it not. Whether or not you’ve ever been in a union, you are benefiting, right now, from unions. The 40-hour week, the 8-hour day, holidays, overtime, rules that keep you from getting your fingers cut off, these didn’t happen because John D. Rockefeller said “Say Fellers, we’ve got enough money, let’s be nice to the little folks.” They did it because they were forced to. And they will keep doing it only because we keep forcing them to.
And if the obviousness of that isn’t plain to you – if a Governor contemplating getting people on his own side beaten up by plants, or not calling a news conference to say “this idiot from Indiana just said I should get myself shot by a friend and blame it on the unions,” doesn’t make the point – or a bill to deny food stamps to you if you go on strike and your family does not have enough to survive – if the obviousness of that isn’t plain to you, consider what last Friday was.
Last Friday, it was a century since the Triangle Waist Company Fire on Washington Square in New York City. ILR has a wonderful, honorable website to this nightmare of our history, which I urge you to look at in case you don’t know the story. In brief, on March 25th 1911, 168 young workers in an underwear factory in Manhattan died, horribly, crushed or suffocated or burned to death at the doors of their sweatshop, or by crashing to the street after they jumped or fell from the windows on the 9th floor at a time when fire ladders only went to the 6th. Mostly young women. Mostly with their clothes or their hair on fire. Jumping to the deaths.
It was the birth of the real American labor movement in this country and the true nightmare of it is that the reason they all died – is not because of the fire – but because the doors to their work floor were locked from the outside. And the doors were locked from the outside because the owners wanted to make sure that union organizers did not sneak in and try to convince the girls to join up.
_____________
The politicians in this country are all millionaires. On air pundits are all millionaires. They don't care about working people, and never will. Now is the time more than ever to stand up to them.
NewDay, I was thinking the EXACT same thing. You could take the Eurostar from Milano and be in Rome in less than 6 hours.
and I also agree with Feisty - if I wasin Milano, the LAST thing I would be doing would be 'blogging' on FR. I would be trying to block out some time to see Lake Lugano.
You can, indeed, Pietro. Will be interesting to hear about that from nj.
Why are the liberals 'obsessed' with the Koch Brothers for doing what George Soros has been doing for years?
aha......Scott Walker is going rogue because he must pay back the the daredevil Koch goons who bought the election for him.
"You dine with the devil using a very long spoon". Pay back time.....Scottie.
My question is, if this law is so all important to the Republicans in WI, why don't they make a few changes (thus creating a "new law") and pass it again ? Just follow the rules this time. The old "law" becomes moot and so does the entire issue.
John B, Des Moines, IA "The sleeping giant has awakened."
Is that the same one that's "A legend in their own mind"?
Wow, Pietro I expect rank jealousy from Feisty, Ron and NewD, but you too?
Although it is pretty funny - Feisty of all people talking about posting on First Read being the last thing she'd be doing. You all ever wonder in here on a Saturday or Sunday? Care to guess who always here, chugging away?
That'd be our girl Feisty - everyday, all day. But yeah, sure it'd be the "last thing."
Oh and say - I'm sure trains are great and all, but let's be clear there is no way on earth the environmentalists here would ever let new train tracks be put in. Why it'd kill too many turtles, or beetles or...?
They can't even put in the infrastructure for solar fields, windmill farms, or fairy dust manufacturing, you know the crap they say we so desperately need. And why is that - yep, environmental concerns.
I just love green on green crime, don't you all? Lawsuit after lawsuit filed by one greenie organization to prevent so other green energy project.
And when was the last time Amtrack was solvent?
Yep, trains are pretty.
"The politicians in this country are all millionaires. On air pundits are all millionaires. They don't care about working people, and never will. Now is the time more than ever to stand up to them."
Pat, I agree with that statement.
And she didn't even stop by for lunch.
Too bad, I would have love to have seen the old gal.
Spanky - Jealousy?
Please. Give me a break.
What I find interesting is that all of the good things that we see in other countries we DON'T want here in THIS country, and high speed rail is one of them.
For your information, I saw an article that Gov. Walker is having second thoughts about turning down the federal money for high-speed rail. it seems he wants to use that money to 'upgrade' an Amtrak station at 16X the cost of what the state would have hadto pay if they had just taken the high-speed rail money.
Will wonders never cease.
And for your information, been there, done that, and LOVED riding the trains in Italy. TrenItalia has a really good travel network that MILLIONS ride every day. I was able to go from Venice to Rome in less than 4 hours, and travelled with some WONDERFUL Italian people who even shared their coffee with me (even though I CLEARLY am an American. It helps when you can speak the language, something MANY Americans feel is beneath them when they travel abroad. Hopefully that will change).
Subject is trains, as in why not more here in US.
Answer is nobody wants to ride the trains. Your more immediate problem is they will never be cost effective here - just look at Amtrack. There there are all the enviromental issues and laws and regulation. I love the whole built train crap - like any town in American can allow a train to roll through at 100+ mphs. Neat in theory, but too many pesky laws.
The bigger issue is cheap gas = freedom. You like the train, great go ride it. Really Amtrack needs your support. Me I like to go where I want when I want. All I need to do is hop in the car and go. Not beholden to a government or quasi-government buarucrat's train schedule.
Plus as Anna M will tell you the trains and particulary the trolleys and bus are chalked full of smelly people.
You think they'd drive more in Europe if gas was taxed so much? Germany makes some really fun cars.
American just ain't like Eurpoe, and that's a very good thing.
Anna Molly
True. So why doesn't he?
The answer is obvious. He no longer has the votes to pass the bill again.
Surprise, surprise.
Thanks, Anna Molly
I remember reading that but never thought of it. What a weasel he is trying to circumvent the law.
Spanky - WRONG (again). It is not that people do not want to ride the trains; they will if the trains will make sense to their plans and their wallets. Unfortunately for America, the gas, oil and auto lobbies have been effective in marginalizing train travel.
When gasoline prices double from what they are now(and they will, it is a matter of time), driving will NOT be the only cost effective option for travel and distribution of goods as it is now. When gas prices went up to $4.00/gallon in 2007-2008, ridership on trains and public transportation jumped markedly.
What's going to happen when Gas is $6-$8/gallon? Looks like those Europeans are on to something, doesn't it?
What the President and many others are trying to do is PREPARE America. Your environmental argument is weak, Spanky. Just because Amtrak was built on the cheap (using existing FREIGHT lines, which are NOT known to be very efficient when they are not hauling cargo) does NOT mean that we cannot build new lines that ARE efficient.
But that will mean an investment in America, something that you (and many GOPers) are against, isn't that correct, Spanky? That would mean jobs and investment and people actually working for a living, taking away your argument(s) about how bad the 'Gubmint' is.
Short-sightedness is KILLING this country.
Spanky and the gang is part of the problem. If trains were as convenient here as in Europe, then more people would use them. If I could take a train from Houston to Galveston I would go to the beach more often. We rely to much on Planes to fly Short distances. People here in Texas fly from Houston to Dallas which is about a 200 mile trip. A train would be more efficient and timely.
Spanky you can walk anywhere anytime. You do not need your personal pod to go some where.
Think you're wrong on this one Pietro. There's more than the gas, oil and auto lobbies. In the NE, the only line that would likely make a profit, there is to much NIMBY for new lines to be built. Same in California where the route now suggested doesn't include the major population centers.
www.nytimes.com/2011/03/12/us/12rail.html?_r=1&ref=highspeedrailprojects
When I travel to NY on NJ Transit, even at rush hour the trains are not full. Compare that to London where a rush hour train is worse than a can of sardines. I've also traveled from Paris to Bordeaux on the TGV which is superb, but that service is heavily subsidized and does not make a profit.
I think its a nice idea but America is too suburban for mass-transit to be winner. I much better investment in my view would be to upgrade the communications and internet infrastructure that would allow more people to work remotely.
Not if you have to take a taxi at each end to reach your destination. Most people I know will drive 200 miles rather than take a plane, because of the delays at the airport and because the schedule may not be convenient. Even if gas goes up to $5 or $6 people will buy smaller cars rather than use mass transit. It's the American way.
Sorry Peitro I've been hearing about $10.00 gas literally since 1976. It just never happens, much to the dismay of the greenie, and apparently the train lovers.
Didn't you hear, they done "found" 22 more years worth of oil here in the good old U.S of A.
So Peitro - you man O wants to get re-elected. He knows that $5.00 gas will prevent that.
So you think he's going to prevent a return to sub $4.00 gas? Not a chance.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Americans don't really like their freedom to travel when and where they want. Maybe they are totally cool with the fact we have plenty of oil here, untapped.
Cause I have been very wrong about Obama before. I was wrong in thinking he would never sign off on the tax rates. Wrong on continuation of, and now institution of new wars. Let's see - I was wrong about rendition, Guantanamo, and continued, and now ramped up, use of drones. I figured he push green tech, and the EPA, but so far, sot so much.
So maybe you are right, maybe in 10 years we'll all be riding shiny new trains.
Me, I'm thinking the Mercedes S550 will be sweet - 500 horsepower from a kick ass v-8.
You, you'll for sure have a Volt or Leaf, right?
But not Amy.
Alan, NJ - when I was in NJ, I travelled on NJ Transit a LOT. I know of what you are saying. I also agree that communications infrastructure should be enhanced so more can work remotely.
The bottom line is this - in New York, NJ and much of the Eastern seaboard, public transit and train travel rivals that of Europe. What is lacking is the will and the investment to include ALL of America, not just the eastern seaboard. I agree with you that America is too surburban - at the moment - to support mass transit. However, there is 'reverse gentrification' that is being noticed and it is because many that have lived in the 'burbs' are now trading that in for city living.
The underlying attaction? Being able to take mass transit to/from work, and to not have to rely on having a car for transportation. A major factor in this trend is gas prices. People are sick and tired of paying through the nose for gas at the pump, and the young people (Gen Y crowd) is actually doing something about it by using their dollars as their voice.
So why not PREPARE for what we are seeing in our young people?
But even that does not justify investment in high-speed trains. Mass transit for cities involves subways, trams and bicycles. Amsterdam would be an example of city mass transit.
Seriously, and this is apolitical, high-speed trains are a non-starter in the US. The country is too big and too suburban. Europe/Asia is denser (population wise) and is more suited to this type of transport.
Pat--thanks for sharing this speech. Keith is right about the Conservatives----if they were more subtle and less greedy they would slip more things by the unsuspecting public.
You have to excuse Spanky because he lives in California. In California (where I did live for a long period of time), getting people to carpool is a major effort. Californians are not going to appreciate mass transit or train travel much because they are in too in love with their cars. For Californians, their car very much defines who they are; it does not matter if that care gets 1 mile to the gallon of 500. What is important is that people look 'sweet' in what they are driving.
Unfortunately for the rest of us, we use - and need - our cars because there is no other choice for travel. Here in Ohio, there are many counties that are struggling with OFFICIAL 19-22% unemployment, but the cost of gas atthe pump is well over $3.60/gallon. In Columbus proper, we can get that same gasoline for $3.40/gallon. Those people who are out in the the counties that are struggling really have no choice in the matter; public transport is non-existent in these areas.
Do you not think that if there was affordable train travel from thes places to Columbus or other cities, people would NOT use the trains (if they were available)?
Sorry Spanky, your view of things is really short-sighted. There is great potential - and reward - if people had the guts to INVEST in America for once.
Well, Alan, we are just going to have to disagree on this one. I do not believe that we have to be an 'urban' environment to be able to justify having high-speed trains.
Yep Peitro - like I said short sighted since 1976.
But I do love the no guts no glory line.
Might even apply to deficit spending, no?
OK, I'll just agree with you on that one, Spanky. How much was a gallon of gasoline in 1976? 35 cents/gallon? 40 cents/gallon?
Fast forward 35 years.
Gas is $3.40/gallon, and higher in California (probably $3.89/gallon?).
Yes, short-sighted you are, Spanky.
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL Comment collapsed by the community
Why wouldn't the crossed-eyed weasel Governor think he's above the law?
After all,he's got the Koch Brothers unlimited resources waiting to post bail!
Can't wait to see what slimey trick he pulls next!
Feisty
After all,he's got the Koch Brothers unlimited resources waiting to post bail!
Can't wait to see what slimey trick he pulls next!
If Snot Walker does go to jail he won't be that slick. He can't slide under bars or down barbed wire fences!!!
I don't think he can do the LIMBO either.
Â
support hard working taxpayers
vote lazy overpaid politicians out
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Mia Culpa. I should have known FR would get around to writing about the Wisconsin judge putting an end to Walkers illegal act. Eventually
What illegal act?
The legislature passed the law, the Governor signed it.
Imagine the gumption to claim there wasnt enough "notice" to vote on the bill, when the fleebagger legislators fled the state precisely because they didnt want to vote.
The legislature itself sets its own notice rules, and can change them .
Now a moonbat judge, whose son is a union activist, abuses her judicial authority. She wants to force a re-vote, so thuggish union activists can intimidate the legislators.
Authoritarians never let mere rule of law get in the way.
You refer to Obama, I presume, John. He has broken more laws than any politician I am aware of- his HCR being declared unconstitutional, his sending troopsmoff to war- and it is war, not "kinetic military action" whatever that it- and jumping on a plane for a trip with the wife, mom in law, and kids, rather than seeking congressional approval, notmto mention all the campaign finance law he broke while telling the gullible media that all his donations came from the little people's paper elute money-
There is thuggery, then there is the Chicago way.
Welcome to the nightmare that is the Obama administration.
I see we're working very hard to deflect attention from the political thuggery and outright authoritarian nature of Wisconsin's Republican governor and his GOPTP legislature. Doing it by pretending Congress wasn't consulted is weak and pathetic;
http://nationaljournal.com/congress/senate-passes-resolution-calling-for-no-fly-zone-over-libya-20110301?page=1
I wonder how many good Conservatives were calling for the impeachment of presidents Reagan and George HW Bush when they invaded Grenada and Panama.
Anyway, all of that is little matter. The important thing is that in Wisconsin, Ohio, and around the country people are doing what's necessary to thwart the authoritarian agenda of the Republican party.
The only consistent "thug" around here is YOU, Bob.
no joe, no bo, nj
"He has broken more laws than any politician I am aware of..."
"...notmto mention all the campaign finance law he broke while telling the gullible media that all his donations came from the little people's paper elute money-..."
"There is thuggery, then there is the Chicago way."
Hospitable people, those Italians! They've obviously made sure No Joe had a generous supply of chianti, anisette and the vastly underrated Italian beer!
Doing it by pretending Congress wasn't consulted is weak and pathetic;
The Senate unanimously approved a nonbinding resolution on Tuesday calling for the United Nations Security Council to impose a no-fly zone over Libya and urged Libyan leader Muammar el-Qaddafi to blah, blah, blah........
_______________________________________________
John B: I really do enjoy the squirming by you lefty liberals to justify Barry's unilateral decision to send our troops into a multilateral military attack without bothering to consult Congress by trotting out a non-binding Senate resolution. Maybe they were absent in high school Civics class when they discussed the fact that Congress is made up of two separate bodies, BOTH of whom must pass any bill, resolution, etc. for it to be an act of the whole Congress. A one-house action is nothing more than a lot of hot air.
It isn't unilateral when every Senator including republicans on March 1, passed S.RES.85 unanimously supporting the U.S. efforts to form a coalition of UN members and do exactly what President Obama has done. It isn't unilateral when 18 legislators were briefed numerous times and didn't bother to debate or discuss it not even when the President gave them the final briefing before air strikes began. What a bunch of cowards those senators and representatives are who now stand in front of the TV cameras protesting and how shallow and ineffective the media for not asking them if they were opposed, why did they vote yes for the action the President took or why did they fail to debate or discuss it in the House.
Joe in Albany
John B: I really do enjoy the squirming by you lefty liberals to justify Barry's unilateral decision to send our troops into a multilateral military attack without bothering to consult Congress by trotting out a non-binding Senate resolution. Maybe they were absent in high school Civics class when they discussed the fact that Congress is made up of two separate bodies, BOTH of whom must pass any bill, resolution, etc. for it to be an act of the whole Congress. A one-house action is nothing more than a lot of hot air.
Maybe if John Boehner hadn't been so quick to go vacation and discuss their bullsh!t idea of cuts to NPR, Planned parenthood, curtailing abortion rights, investigating American Muslims, declaring English As America's official language, re-affirming The "In God We Trust" motto rather than work on a resolution it could have been as I understand it.
It seems like they did NOT want Congressional approval now they b!tch
FYI: Exhibit A for the White House: A Senate resolution that passed March 1, which denounced Khaddafy's atrocities. The White House says the U.N. resolution authorizing force in Libya incorporates it.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/03/21/6315875-wh-pushes-back-on-charge-that-it-didnt-consult-with-congress
The War Powers Resolution requires the president to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days, with a further 30 day withdrawal period, without an authorization of the use of military force or a declaration of war. The resolution was passed by two-thirds of Congress, overriding a presidential veto.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution
Now Congress has 60 days
Bev, you really aren't very bright, are you?
Below is the WHOLE paragraph from your wiki source. YOU failed to read or post the first part of the paragraph which REQUIRES the President to get the authorization of Congress or he can act unilaterally if, and ONLY if there is "a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces."
So, Bev, can you tell us when Libya attacked the US, it's territories, possessions or armed forces in the last month or so justifying Barry's Libya attack without Congressional authorization??
I didn't think so.
Moron.
The War Powers Resolution of 1973 (50 U.S.C. 1541–1548) was a United States Congress joint resolution providing that the President can send U.S. armed forces into action abroad only by authorization of Congress or in case of The War Powers Resolution requires the president to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days, with a further 30 day withdrawal period, without an authorization of the use of military force or a declaration of war.
It isn't unilateral when every Senator including republicans on March 1, passed S.RES.85 unanimously supporting the U.S. efforts to form a coalition of UN members and do exactly what President Obama has done. It isn't unilateral when 18 legislators were briefed numerous times and blah, blah, blah....
______________________________________________
Jody, see my post #4.10, except for the "Moron." part.
The real interesting thing is that no President, from Nixon through Obama, has ever officially consulted with Congress, "pursuant to the terms of the War Powers Act."
All Presidents feel that law is an unconstitutional violation of the seperation of powers. No Congressman or President wants to challenge it in the courts for fear the USC will find against them.
Besides, if Congress does not like what the President is doing, they can "defund" whatever it is. Kucinich proposed it. See how far that got.
The real interesting thing is that no President, from Nixon through Obama, has ever officially consulted with Congress, "pursuant to the terms of the War Powers Act."
___________________________________________________________
WRONG:
The Iraq Resolution or the Iraq War Resolution (formally the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002,[1] Pub.L. 107-243, 116 Stat. 1498, enacted October 16, 2002, H.J.Res. 114) is a joint resolution passed by the United States Congress in October 2002 as Public Law No: 107-243, authorizing the Iraq War.
Introduced in Congress on October 2, 2002, in conjunction with the Administration's proposals,[2][7] H.J.Res. 114 passed the House of Representatives on Thursday afternoon at 3:05 p.m. EDT on October 10, 2002, by a vote of 296-133,[8] and passed the Senate after midnight early Friday morning, at 12:50 a.m. EDT on October 11, 2002, by a vote of 77-23.[9] It was signed into law as Pub.L. 107-243 by President Bush on October 16, 2002.
The resolution authorized President Bush to use the Armed Forces of the United States "as he determines to be necessary and appropriate" in order to "defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq."
.
The state supports labor, our leaders don't, so we have to do their job.
wow the weeper of the house seems to be under fire by the tea party ! "We will replace you in 2012" your not conservative enough ! ...To bad it wasn't a kegg party ...huh johnny boy?
Absolutely correct - if the current crop doesn't do some serious cuts, and $60 million is nothing compare to the debt [like the $223 from February], then either 1. we'll get someone in who will; or 2. the insolvency will start to produce very bad things.
Which would you prefer Dreaming, or is there no issue with the debt? You are fine with current debt levels?
And what do you think the deficit will be by the end of March? Truly March Madness, right?
The HOUSE could go after redundancies in Goverment and get at LEAST $100 BILLION trimmed from the budget.
So why isn't this being looked at? Could it be that this is not a 'rabidly political' instance where EVERYONE would benefit?
I agree Pietro, but how about the senate? Might it not try to actually do something about the debt?
Og course I'm still waiting for them to root out all that fraud and abuse in medicare.
$5 billion per day Pietro, just for debt service. Don't know about you, but that just seems silly.
Spanky, it is the JOB of the HOUSE to craft budget legislation.
It is THEIR JOB, not the Senate's.
So what are you saying, Spanky? Are you AGREEING with me that the HOUSE is falling down on the Job by not crafting sensible budget legislation?
The senate also plays a very large role, as you know.
The House sucks right now. We must have huge cuts or we are going down.
Let's see $5billion per day in interest costs times 30 days = $150 billion new debt added per month.
$223 in February, annualized = $2.6 Trillion.
So that's just the new debt this year. You pick which number you want to use, and we know there's a whole lot more.
So Pietro you think out leaders, collectively are falling down? You find this sustainable?
No, Spanky, I think that our electorate is 'collectively falling down' by not being engaged and informed. There is no reason why there should be 'buyer's remorse' right now if the electorate was informed. The fact of the matter is that the GOP pulled a fast one and NOW - after the fact - people are seeing that.
I don't even blame the GOP and Tea Partyers for what they have done. They made it pretty clear leading up to November 2010 what they were going to do.
Too bad the electorate didn't listen.
If you think that Congress is a bunch of crooks, it is because WE (collectively) voted the crooks in. We (collectively) have done NOTHING to help ourselves, but yet we are OK to bitch and complain about how 'corrupt' these politicians are.
We are getting what we deserve when we don't vote and are NOT informed.
Maine teachers voted yesterday to accept paying more towards their pensions, even though the state is reducing it's share and passing the "savings" on to the wealthiest taxpayers through generous tax cuts.
I know teachers tend to be a law-abiding sort, and we also do not have a tradition of liberal protests in Maine, but if the Republican Party thinks there won't be repercussions from this particular group of college educated, organized, reliable voters, and their relatives, oh, just wait till 2012.
One more example of the Conservative war on the middle class. As in Wisconsin this is a clear effort to redistribute wealth from the middle class to the stratosphere of American society.
Average Americans are tired of being stomped on by the wealthy Conservative elites. No more compromise, no more going along to get along. There's no point in compromising with cheaters.
Amy,
in Maine as in every state, there are more hardworking private sector taxpayers fed up with being blackmailed by public employee unions.
The private sector taxpayers still outnumber the public sector parasites. No amount of mass demonstrations and thug union tactics can change that fact.
Bob-1887910
Amy,
The private sector taxpayers still outnumber the public sector parasites. No amount of mass demonstrations and thug union tactics can change that fact.
Not for long; didn't you get the memo jobs are going offshore?
So, Bev, you would be happy if we all worked for the State?
The almighty Government is your God.
Bob: do you really want to be calling the people who are teaching the next generation "THUGS" ?
The actions of this group of Republicans will affect their party for years to come, assuming the party even continues to exist after the next election cycle.
Don't forget, dirp101, he is also calling them blackmailers. Of course that is ignoring the corporate blackmail that comapnies like Caterpiller are engaging in . . . but I guess that is okay with the rght wingers since it is a corporation doing it.
Well hey there Amy.
Yesterday you kida called us conservatives out - "if only we had listened to Carter...we all be zipping around in electric cars." Remember that?
I asked you then and now renew my request - do you, amy zip around in an electric car? Do you Amy have solar on your house?
Because if you do, fantastic. If not, then I'd like to know why 1. you didn't heed the advice of the great Jimmy C, and 2. why would you call anyone else out?
So what say you Amy?
Spanky-
I don't normally respond to to right wing instigators, however, I will tell you I don't own a car and I live in an apartment in the very walkable city of Portland, Me.
My brother, however, who happens to be a rabid Libertarian, not a Democrat or Republican, lives "off the grid," as they say, using solar panels and a generator to power his house. His neigbor, also a right-winger, uses horses to till his land instead of gas powered tractor. Takes all kinds to make a great country, Spanky. All kinds.
That's interesting Amy but it must have been the whole "we'd all be zipping around in electric cars" comment y you that threw me off.
So of all the things you said we'd all benefit from if only we had listened to Carter - none seem to apply to you. Huh.
Oh and would you consider yourself a left wing "instigator?' or just too afraid to face your own hypocrisy? Cause see the no car and apartment thing directly affects so many of the topics we discuss around here, wouldn't you agree?
You know the whole no dog in the fight thing?
Not following your logic, Spanky, but good luck to you.
If we had listen to Jimmy Carter, then we would have a comprehensive energy policy and not be as dependant on oil dictators. Spanky and his gang cried because it cost to much to drive their hot rods form home to the store. Cheap gas was their rally cry. Never ask a conservative to conserve. It is not in their dictionary.
Not very surprised Amy. Or Salt Grass we could start drill for al that oil they just found, and not be dependent on anyone.
Salt grass - I'm doing my part to help you all out. I'm going to use it all up for you all.
But I would LOVE to compare home energy bills. I bet I'd smoke you brother.
Bev, as usual you show your stupidity! You seem to take great pleasure in the thought that the 'jobs are going offshore'.
Let me ask you this you Chicago parasite... Who the hell is going to pay the salaries of those public sector employees when there is no one from the private sector left working, and thus paying the taxes that fund the public sector salaries?
Like all good libbies you seem to think that money just appears... when we need it it just appears. WRONG! What a dolt!
Ok Spanky last month my natural gas bill was 20.00 and my electric bill was 50.0.
You got me.
Mine total utility bill was $120 - that's gas and electric. 2500 square foot house, family of four [two teens].
I want to get solar, but it's just not cost effective. I'd love to be off the grid.
So Spanky you live in a 750,000.00 dollar home and complain about taxes? Sounds like down sizing would save on a big tax bill.
Elections have consequences. Voting in Republicans was a big mistake and now much effort and money is being spent on getting them out of office before they break their states. Much damage has already been done in Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan and now Florida. No money is being saved at all since they are giving away every extra dime they are taking from the poor and middle class to the rich. A redistribution of wealth to the rich much like what Bush did. Wake up folks! Get out and vote! Vote these Republicans out of office.
"Voting in Republicans was a big mistake and now much effort and money is being spent on getting them out of office before they break their states"
Yes much effort and money is being spent. Millions and millions spent by corrupt public employee unions, to overturn the results of valid elections.
Why is that?
AnaBanana-1782128
And in the news from Maine: our local rightwing rag, the Portland Press Herald, announced that Tea Party Governor LePage has gone on his very first vaction, since taking office. Mind you, he was only inaugurated three months ago! I shudder to think what he will do when he comes back re-charged.
Perhaps you heard about his poke-a-stick in-their eye action of removing an innoculous mural from the Labor Dept, which had been installed three years ago. He finds it offensive to business because it depicts union activity. That controversy hasn't calmed down yet, what with lawsuits over a contract with the artist that had stipulated informing her if it was ever moved, and the fact the mural is now "in an undisclosed location."
This is what you get when the Tea Party takes over gummit. Theatrics that make Sarah Palin's home life look stable. Putting big bidness ahead of middle class workers. Drama ahead of substance. It's insane.
Anabanana fruitcake:
Did you vote Republican??????? End of story, case closed....
Go sit down.
Amy is a leftwing Maine agitator.
The Governor goes on vacation. Big Deal.
Activist murals put up on the wall in a nonpartisan government agency, favoring unions, which taxpayers actually paid some moonbat artist for, are removed. Big Deal.
What other phony issue you got?
Tell me EXACTLY how a mural honoring workers favors unions.
Because we have something similar in the School of "Business" here at my world-class university.
They'd probably be surprised to hear that.
At further expense to the taxpayers. Moonbat Hypocrite Governor.
Funny. I didn't read where she said that.
And unless you can point out to me where she did, YOU go sit down.
I'd like to see the proof of the ""Millions and millions spent by corrupt public employee unions, to overturn the results of valid elections." that is being spewed by a proven liar. Prove they are corrupt, prove they are spending millions and millions. I dare you.
@Bob: If there is another election, even if the point of that election is to recall a politician, it is valid. It is just as valid as any other election. If unions are spending "millions and millions" on a recall, don't you think that corporations will likely be spending a similar amount to prevent the recall ?
Recall is a powerful tool that voters should have at every level, for every elected office. Voters should not have to wait 2, 4, 5, 6 years to replace incompetant politicians. The recall vote itself will determine if the voters decide the politician is incompetant. Its how Governor Schwarzenagger got into office.
Hey Anna Molly... Let me spell it out for you since you (are a liberal and) you are obviously too simple minded to understand the deeper meaning of his statement...
Ready... here goes... concentrate...
She did not vote Republican so she will not be changing her vote and thus she will not be invoking any change...
Shall I say it again... slower?
S H E
W I L L
N O T
B E
I N V O K I N G
C H A N G E...
There... now don't we all feel better? ;-)
TY Sick.....
Man I was confused myself as to how she came up with that conclusion.......
Dang......man...these Liberals.......they think they know everything...........................
That's OK ITM...
I want to help where I can and if that means helping the (mentally) less fortunate then I am all in.
The other thing that is funny is she called you a 'Moonbat'. LOL! Doesn't she know that Moonbats are lefties... Wingnuts are righties! But NitWits come in all flavors and she is proof of that! LOL!
Take care brother!
Actually, no. That rule is set by statute. Not only did they violate the 24-hour rule; they also violated the 2-hour rule. which is available when there is good cause. They only gave an hour and 51 minutes' notice, and even in that case, there was no good cause for not giving more notice.
The only thing at issue here what the remedy for that violation should be.
But speaking of judge's whose family members are activists, I guess that takes care of Clarence Thomas participating in any decision relating to "Obamacare" ... doesn't it, Bob?
AM, the 24 hour rule does not apply during special session- article 93. Why do you keep conveniently leaving out the facts that don't suit your argument? The legislature was in special session when this meeting took place. The only notice requirement is a posting on the bulletin board, which they did, 2 hours before the meeting. They also went another step and sent an email. The complaint here is from the Flee Party 14 who say they didn't have time to get back for the meeting, only they shouldn't have friggin' been in IL in the first place. But of course I"m sure that's an inconvenient truth as well so you'll ignore that part, too.
And if we assume by any stretch of the imagination that there was a rules violation, the remedy is also spelled out in the legislative procedures- a fine for those who violated the rule. It does not over turn the law. Even the scholars on your team have agreed with that.
Well put Suzy...
It is however, unlikely that you will see any sort of coherent response from the left... you see, when confronted with REAL facts and the WHOLE TRUTH they either fade away quietly with no response OR lash out with personal attacks.
Sick, that only makes it more entertaining for me!
Let's see, who to believe . . . the judge in Wisconsin who would be an expert on Wisconsin law, Anna Molly who is a practicing attorney in the State of Wisconsin and would also know Wisconsin law, or Suzy-2005071, an anonymous right wing poster who has been shown to not know what she is talking about on more than one occasion? Such a hard choice!
I'm sooo confused!!
<end snark>
Really, Mathew? Where have I been shown not to know what I'm talking about? I'm make it easy. Just go ith this post. What did I say above that is untrue or inaccurate? Just cuz you disagree with it doesn't make it untrue.
Just as our federal government has three branches to provide checks and balances, so do most of our states. The Judiciary is in place to ensure that the Executive and Legislative branches do not overreach their authority or break the laws. In this case, the judge found that there is reason to believe that the open meeting laws of Wisconsin have been violated and put an injunction in place until a final determination can be made. This does not mean the law has been abolished but it also means that the law can not be implemented until the matter has been adjudicated.
Governor Walker is clearly violating the courts order. Period. There is no spinning this, Walker is arrogantly ignoring an injunction the court has legally put in place. Why? Isn't he subject to the same laws as everyone else?
As has been pointed out by many, why don't the Republican/TP Inc. legislators and the Republican/TP Inc. Governor just reintroduce the bill again? What are they afraid of? The reason they won't is, in my view, they know they will lose if they bring it up for a fair debate and a fair vote. The term for their previous and current actions is, I believe, 'jamming this legislation down the throats of the people of Wisconsin'
You're correct, John. The consensus is that the votes no longer exist. Or at least they don't until after the recall efforts either stand or fail. If the recall efforts fail, then the whole thing is probably doomed.
Actually, Anna, if the recall efforts fail, the state of Wisconsin is doomed, but thats a longer story.
It was reported last night, that many of those Wisconsin republicans did not know how expansive this Walker/Fitzgerald brothers legislation was and the reason Walker continues to defy the Judge's orders is because he probably doesn't have the votes any more to pass it. Also, the threat of recall has an impact on even the most ardent union-busting legislator.
Who reported that, Jody?
Was it Rachel or Ed? (Hahahahaha)
Tomorrow is opening day and fantasy baseball will supplant fantasy outrage politics for some...and not a moment too soon...
The 2012 elections are going to be like 2008, with a very record group of Democrat Progressives voting.
So, this will be a great opportunity to get rid of the Tea baggers –Republicans in office.
People have to remember that only 37% of the eligible voters voted in 2010 and that is not going to happen in 2012.
Just yesterday, I got my letter from the Presidents re-election campaign and he and his people are going to be kicking it into high gear, very soon.
Hope and Change my man, hope and change.
Oh yeah, but now it's I hope the debt, economy and unemployment changes.
I hope gas prices change. I hope the war picture changes.
Yep things are going to change again in 2012.
Gonna be big fun. I wonder Job1 will California, Ill, or New York be BK by then? Should be interesting.
This is the problem with the Dems. What they can't get by constitutional means they put their hacks to get it by activis. They have no respect for the law or the constitution once they get their kickbacks from the Union thugs. Dem flourish with such seedy organisations.
Can anyone decipher what Juven has just posted?
Baghdad Bob indeed!
No, Pietro, not sure what he talking about. Something about union thug kickbacks but we know it is Koch Brother kickbacks that drove Walker down this road, convinced him to break the unions and in return...riches, fame and a trip to sunny California awaited Walker all paid for by Koch thugs.
good one Pietro! best smile of the day.
how about Bagdad BachanJuven??
All Right Chris, how very Feisty of you.
Always lead with the name calling, it's Feisty creed.
well spankurmonkey...that's the nicest thing you've ever said to me. I consider being Feisty a badge of honor.
You would. :-P
you tryin to slip me the ol' tongue there sob? ...you're sick...but you already know that.
I laugh at her moniker everytime she slithers out from under her rock Chris! LMAO
From the sounds of her, 'PMS Queen' is much more suited to her tastes!
careful red....you might get accused of being Feisty ...... ;o)
You should know me by now Chris - I throw caution to the wind! LOL! ;o)
Guess some in the media weren't paying much attention when all those Ohio citizens flooded the streets and marched in protest, protested outside and inside the state Capitol.
Once again, republicans are determined to stomp on what's left of the middle class, take away rights, and in general give everything to big business and the rich. They have, however, over-reached and amazingly revealed their hand (their real agenda). Voters will have the last say and the republicans in power won't be able to do a thing to stop it no matter how much money their corporate masters give them.
They do seem to have over-played their hand this time around, Jody. My father, who is 91 and watches Fox a lot commented to me that the Republicans are making a mistake taking out the middle class. I about fell over!
No checks and balance in California. The democrats have the power of the majority and the Governor is in the back pocket of the unions. They want 5 years of tax extensions on the ballot for the voters to decide. I am OK with that, as long as they put a spending cap and pension reform on the ballot.
Unions said no.
The federal government gave California $120.7 billion in 2009 - 2010 to underwrite education, health services, welfare grants and dozens of other programs, plus they have had two years of tax increases.
We now have a deficit of $25.4 billion I don't know about you, but I think that reform might be in order.
If that's not bad enough the Lawmakers passed a bill on renewable energy. The measure would require public and private utilities to obtain 33 percent of their electricity from renewable energy sources by 2020
As California goes, so goes the nation.
thetotas, you're ignoring the supermajority requirement that allows a minority to totally stop the budgeting process in California. From the '09 California budget fiasco;
http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-plank/california-and-the-consequences-legislative-gridlock
Excellent Post, John B. This eerily parallels the thinking - and direction - that the GOPers and the Tea Partyers want to do on the FEDERAL level. As we can see, California is suffering from decreased revenues; California has issues with their costs (cost of doing business) because their revenues are 20 years behind what they SHOULD be.
Is it any wonder that California has deficits that they just cannot seem to overcome?
See you all on April 4th, 2011!
We've created a workers' rally song "Down On The Line" in support of
the hardworking middle class brothers & sisters nationwide.
You can listen & download it free here:
downontheline.htm
Fight on! The Joe Hill Heartlanders