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Subscribe to RSSObama to make his case on Libya in televised address at 7:30 pm ET… Previewing what Obama will say… And what he hasn't said yet about the situation there… While the policy appears to be working (the rebels have the momentum), what has hurt the White House has been the messaging… The budget debate on Capitol Hill resumes… Bachmann and Cain stole the show at Saturday’s cattle call in Iowa… Will Rand Paul soon join them?... Today’s cable catnip: Robert Gibbs is in talks to join Facebook… And Santorum’s in New Hampshire.
From NBC's Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, Domenico Montanaro, and Ali Weinberg
*** Making his case: When President Obama addresses the nation tonight at 7:30 pm ET on the situation in Libya, he’ll have yet another opportunity to explain why the United States should be intervening in that country’s civil war, especially when the U.S. is involved in two other wars and when U.S. unemployment remains so high. It’s a challenge that was highlighted by Defense Secretary Gates, who said on "Meet the Press" yesterday that Libya isn't a "vital" U.S. interest. “I don’t think it’s a vital interest for the United States,” Gates said. “But we clearly have interests there. And it’s a part of the region, which is a vital interest for the United States.” Secretary of State Clinton added, “[Libya] didn’t attack us, but what they were doing and Khaddafy’s history and the potential for the disruption and instability was very much in our interest… And seen by our European friends and our Arab partners as very vital to their interests.”
*** What Obama will say: Here is what we’ve learned Obama will likely say tonight, according to sources. One, he’ll announce that the one-week campaign (to establish a no-fly zone and to immobilize the Khaddafy’s army) has worked. Indeed, due to the Western airstrikes, rebel forces have the momentum and are now at the doorstep of Khaddafy’s home town. Two, the president will stress that the U.S. has handed over command and control to NATO. A senior administration official confirmed to NBC’s Courtney Kube yesterday that NATO has agreed to take over the mission to protect Libya’s civilian population. And three, he’ll discuss the lives that the campaign has saved. One other thing to note: The reason why the president is making his speech from the National Defense University and not from the Oval Office is that it’s more of a “policy” speech (which presidents typically deliver from different venues) than an “action” one (which they typically give from the Oval Office).
*** What Obama hasn’t yet said: But here are questions we’re looking for Obama to answer in tonight’s speech. One, what’s the end game for U.S. involvement? What happens if Khaddafy’s forces and the rebels are locked in a months-long stalemate? Will the U.S. continue to intervene? Two, how much has the mission cost and how much will it cost? Three, if the rebels triumph, what kind of governing order would they bring to Libya? And four, what happens the next time there’s a humanitarian crisis and the international community supports an intervention? What does that mean for Syria? What about Iran? As Obama said in his weekly address over the weekend, “I firmly believe that when innocent people are being brutalized; when someone like Khaddafy threatens a bloodbath that could destabilize an entire region; and when the international community is prepared to come together to save many thousands of lives—then it’s in our national interest to act.”
*** It’s the messaging, stupid: Despite all the criticism the Obama White House has received on Libya -- and much of it has been pure politics (see: Gingrich, Newt) -- the policy appears to have worked, at least for now. But what the administration has struggled with is the messaging. And this has been a constant theme we’ve witnessed from Team Obama that goes all the way back to the presidential campaign of 2007-2008. It always seems to take them a day or two or three to get it right. And once they do, they do it with overkill (examples: tonight’s speech and tomorrow’s interviews with the network anchors).
*** Budget debate resumes: The real fight on Capitol Hill isn't Libya, however. Rather, it's the budget. As the Wall Street Journal reports, “The White House and Democratic lawmakers … are assembling a proposal for roughly $20 billion in additional spending cuts that could soon be offered to Republicans, according to people close to the budget talks. That would come on top of $10 billion in cuts that Congress has already enacted and would represent a deeper reduction than the Obama administration and Senate Democrats had offered previously in negotiations. But it isn't clear that would be enough to satisfy Republicans.” The White House feels pretty confident it can cut a deal with Speaker Boehner. The question remains: Can Boehner get his caucus to accept a deal? And here’s why the GOP -- so far -- has been winning the budget debate, at least message-wise: because the debate has been over numbers, not policies.
*** Bachmann and Cain steal the show -- again: We know we’re beginning to sound like a broken record, but it’s true: The GOP’s presidential “top tier” has some work to do. The best-received speakers at Rep. Steve King’s (R) cattle call in Iowa on Saturday? Michele Bachmann and Herman Cain, even though Haley Barbour and Newt Gingrich also spoke. Haley and Newt were both politely and fairly well received, but they weren't met with the raucous, rally-like atmosphere of Bachmann, who was followed by Cain. And it's not the first time that folks who probably won’t be president (or even the eventual GOP nominee) overshadowed the supposed top tier. At an earlier Iowa cattle call, Cain and former Gov. Buddy Roemer stood out. And at CPAC, Ron Paul, Donald Trump, and a “fake” Sarah Palin drew the most buzz. What’s more, it was striking that Barbour chose to focus on the economy in his speech before a crowd of social conservative activists, which drew a mild rebuke from a speaker on a family values panel. And Gingrich was left defending his position(s) on Libya.
*** Enter Rand Paul? While Bachmann -- as well as Trump -- sucked up most of the oxygen in the early GOP presidential field last week, the next entrant in the “Andy Warhol” primary could very well be Rand Paul. The freshman GOP senator was in South Carolina last week and said he was likely to run for president if his father doesn’t. As Al Cross in the Louisville Courier-Journal wrote over the weekend, there’s probably not enough Tea Party room for both Paul and Bachmann, even though they represent different strands of the Tea Party (Bachmann is more a social conservative, while Paul is more a fiscal/libertarian one).
*** Today’s cable catnip: Per the New York Times’ Andrew Ross Sorkin, Robert Gibbs might go to work for Facebook. “Facebook is in talks to hire Robert Gibbs, President Obama’s former White House press secretary, for a senior role in helping to manage the company’s communications, people briefed on the negotiations said… Mr. Gibbs, who left the White House in February after two years on the job, had been planning to help establish President Obama’s re-election campaign before taking a private sector job, these people said.”
NBC News' Domenico Montanaro talks about a New York Times report, which suggests the site is eyeing the former White House Press Secretary to manage its communications.
*** On the trail: Rick Santorum, who didn’t attend Saturday’s Iowa cattle call because of a family emergency, is in New Hampshire today, where he speaks at the Grafton County Lincoln Reagan Day Dinner at 8:00 pm ET.
Countdown to continuing resolution’s expiration: 11 days
Countdown to Iowa GOP straw poll: 137 days
Countdown to Election Day 2011: 225 days
Countdown to the Iowa caucuses: 315 days
* Note: When the IA caucuses take place depends on whether other states move up
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Voter fraud is not the rampant disease scouring the political landscape like the GOP/TP is trying to make you believe. It is another scam being perpetrated on United States Citizens to disenfranchise/suppress MILLIONS of US Citizens from their Constitutional protection to vote. Trying to cloak this fraud in the name of “Voter Fraud” is misleading and a gross exaggeration at best. Is voter fraud zero? Of course not, but we have had very few cases when compared to the hundreds of millions of people casting votes and many of those were not prosecuted and had nothing at all to do with ID issues. Not even close to the major issue that the GOP/TP is trying to make it out to be. This is just like the Rep King Hearings where he claimed that the Muslims are the primary terrorist threat within our boarders. Out of the 125 or stop terrorist plots about 1/3 were tied to Muslims, they other 2/3 were predominately from white groups.
Should people present some form of ID when they vote? I have no problem with that except in the case of the GOP/TP they want one specific type of ID when others will do as well making it harder for a specific class of people to vote. Like Senior Citizens, those with a disability, College Students and the list goes on. There should be a list of valid ID’s not just one. People, the right to vote is guaranteed by the Constitution. I saw a few posters claim that it is not. This is true only in the sense of the original document ignoring the various Amendments. See below.
The Bill of Rights covered most of the most important rights that had been left out of the original Constitution. However, only time could reveal other important rights that had not been covered - or time allowed enough minds to be changed to allow other rights to gain enough popularity to be protected by an amendment. Such as the right of US Citizens to vote. The pertinent Amendments are as follows:
13th Amendment: Right to not be a slave.
14th Amendment: Right to citizenship of any person born in the United States. Right to equal protection of the national and state laws. Right to be free of any law that abridges the privileges or immunities of a citizen. Right to be free of any law that deprives a person of life, liberty, or property without due process.
15th Amendment: Right to vote regardless of race or color.
17th Amendment: Right to vote for Senators.
19th Amendment: Right to vote regardless of gender.
23rd Amendment: Right to vote for presidential electors if a resident of Washington, D.C.
24th Amendment: Right to vote even if a poll tax or any other tax is unpaid.
26th Amendment: Right to vote guaranteed for any person at least 18 years old.
Source for Above: http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_resp.html
The Constitution is peppered with amendments that expanded the right to vote - many people, over several centuries, have worked hard to bring the vote to as many people as possible. With few exceptions, all persons, 18 or older, can vote in any public election. It is a responsibility, then, to vote.
Voter suppression is not new to this country and goes back to the birth of this country. Many of them have been corrected by Amendments to the constitution like those above. Others were just outright election rigging. One of the most noted happened in 2000.
Source for below: http://www.crmvet.org/info/votehist.htm
“Beginning with the bitterly-contested Presidential election of 2000, political parties are increasingly devoting energy and money towards "suppressing" the turnout of demographic groups who traditionally favor the other side. The Republican Party is particularly active in targeting naturalized immigrant citizens, Blacks, Latinos, and those seniors who traditionally vote Democratic. Suppression tactics include both legal ploys and outright deceit”. Some examples include:
2000: Republican-directed disenfranchisement of Blacks in Florida.
“Prior to the election of 2000, Jeb Bush the Republican Governor of Florida — and brother of Presidential candidate George Bush — hires a private company long associated with the Republican party to "purge" the Florida voting rolls of "ineligible" voters. Along with voters who really are ineligible, tens of thousands of legally registered Black voters are illegally stripped from the rolls. When they arrive at the polls on Election Day, they are told they cannot vote”.
“This denial of voting rights to African-American voters in Florida is the direct cause of George Bush's supposed 537 vote "victory" in that state. It is this phony "win" (plus the votes of the 5 Republican appointees on the Supreme Court) that makes him President, even though Gore receives 500,000 more votes nation-wide than Bush”.
According to the report issued by the U.S. Commission on Civil rights:
1. Widespread voter disenfranchisement — not the dead-heat contest — was the extraordinary feature in the Florida election.
2. Violations of the Voting Rights Act occurred in Florida and there was widespread denial of voting rights.
3. Black voters were nearly 10 times more likely than non-Black voters to have their ballots rejected.
4. The state's highest officials responsible for ensuring fairness in the election failed to fulfill their responsibilities and were subsequently unwilling to take responsibility.
Voter ID laws. In a number of states (there are 22 GOP/TP controlled States currently trying to disenfranchise Millions of voters), Republicans have passed laws requiring voters to show a specific type of photo-ID before they can cast their ballots. These laws discourage voting by the elderly and poor who are less likely to own a car and are thus less likely to posses a valid drivers license or other form of photo ID”.
Targeted voter purges. In Georgia and other states, minority, immigrant, and college-student voters have been disproportionately "purged" from the rolls on various pretexts”. Young people who can go to war and get killed but they cannot vote. What is wrong with this picture??
Deceit. Political "dirty tricks" are increasingly being used by both parties to suppress voter turnout of those who tend to favor the other side. Examples include false notification that polling places have been changed, directing voters to phony email or web addresses where they can supposedly vote online, conducting voter-registration drives and then failing to turn in those forms where a voter registered for the opposing party, mass-mailings of counterfeit absentee ballots with false return addresses, and so on”.
And the fight will continue. People this is not about voter fraud, currently it is all about the politicians trying to suppress the rights of a segment of this country from voting in 2012 there by “rigging” the election in their favor. They cannot win the political debate so they are going to rig the game, just like buying the referees to make an important call or Basket Ball Players shaving points or the old Chicago “Black” Sox’s to use an sports analogy. It is all about Power and Greed.
The Weekend WSJ had an entertaining and instructive story for all those lefty liberals that think the cure to all ills is to increase taxes on the rich. The story looked at states that have very high tax rates on the “rich”. CA, CT, NY and NJ each get more than 40% of their personal income taxes from the top 1% of earners. That’s great during the good times when these taxpayer’s are reporting big incomes. The problem is that states that rely on this income source build spending plans that are way too big to fund when the bad times hit. These high income earners also have very volatile incomes that went way down when the recession hit. Those “progressive” states are now the ones with the biggest deficits because the “rich” saw a 16% decline in earnings between 2007 and 2008, compared to the average taxpayers 4% decline. From the story:
Mr. Williams, a former economic forecaster for the state, spent more than a decade warning state leaders about California's over-dependence on the rich. "We created a revenue cliff," he said. "We built a large part of our government on the state's most unstable income group."
OOPS!!!
As Margaret Thacher said “The only problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money to spend.”
Tea Partiers in Office:
Wisconsin is a beautiful state. It has plenty of fresh water along Lake Michigan. It’s the home of the Green Bay Packers, and the Wisconsin Badgers had an excellent basketball team. Its primary problem is that it elected Tea Party Governor Scott Walker, a majority of conservative state senators and a Secretary of State named Doug LaFollette.
Last week a judge issued a restraining order clearly ordering LaFollette not to publish the Wisconsin Union Law. Apparently the law was published anyway, followed by a comment by Mike Huebsch, Walker’s top cabinet official that the administration will carry out the law, starting last Saturday. It could be said that we are a nation of laws, except in Wisconsin.
As a footnote: In Wisconsin, anyone who intentionally defies a court order is in contempt of court and can be fined up to $2,000 per day and 6 months in jail. My bet is the Koch brothers are not interested in paying that fine so there could be 6 months of jail time.
Then we have in my very own Hoosier state a prosecutor named Carlos Lam who suggested in an email to Governor Scott Walker that Walker FAKE an attack on himself to discredit public employee unions. And all this time I thought prosecutors were part of the judicial system committed to enforce the law, not break the law. Lam has subsequently resigned.
Moving on to Kansas, Tea Partier Representative Virgil Peck stated in public that unauthorized immigrants should be shot from helicopters. (Somewhat like Sarah Palin shooting wolves, moose, bear, dogs, anything that moves from a helicopter.) Currently there are 54,000 signatures stating that Peck should resign. I wonder, why we elect these Tea Partiers in the first place, then spend time and money to recall or impeach them.
I could include Florida’s conservative governor Rick Scott, who before becoming governor owned a health care business. Now as governor he gave the health care business to his wife and as governor, wants to privatize Medicaid…and who would be the benefactor? You guessed it, the Rick Scott family. In the days before Tea Partiers were elected that would be called a conflict of interest.
You may say; “Ron, all Tea Partiers are not like that.” Yeah, right! Would you like more examples?
Tell me again, there isn’t a pattern forming here of voter suppression…
If you don't believe it, I have a barely used bridge to no where in Alaska for sale!
Ron:
Morning, great post this Monday morning. Laws do not apply the the GOP/TP, they are getting bolder every day in their out right disdain for obeying the laws and rights of the US Citizens. As I keep saying, these guys have no shame, no morals and no accountability at all. He!!, they do not even have any ideas on Jobs in this country, stimulating the economy or improving education. They are real good though on stripping rights away from its citizens and putting us in the poor house while they reap all the benefits.
Navy: So happy to see you took some time to write this morning. Excellent post.
Last week a judge issued a restraining order clearly ordering LaFollette not to publish the Wisconsin Union Law. Apparently the law was published anyway, followed by a comment by Mike Huebsch, Walker’s top cabinet official that the administration will carry out the law, starting last Saturday. It could be said that we are a nation of laws, except in Wisconsin.
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Gee, Dr. Ron, that wouldn't be some creative lying on your part, would it?
The judges order applied to Secretary of State La Follette not publishing the law and HE DIDN'T PUBLISH IT. It was published by a non-partisan agency called the Legislative Reference Bureau.
What's next for you lefty liberals??
Burning books with ideas you don't like??
Feisty:
This is exactly what they are doing. THey can no longer win the political deabte with the ideology of the 30's and 40's so they are going to go to the Rove Book on how to overthrow the current government and try to rig the election process. Where have we seen this ideology before?? Did it work?? What happend to those countries??
Good post, but I feel compelled to mention that Doug LaFollette isn't the problem, Ron. He's the one who was content to wait out the court challenges. This phony "publication" was an end-around him, too.
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_f22629e6-572a-11e0-ab2f-001cc4c002e0.html
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/118677754.html
You need to get a serious clue, Joe. Even the director of the Legislative Reference Bureau didn't think he was really "publishing" the law in the sense meant by statute. Read the articles.
Have you ever noticed that when some on the Right are called out for being racist, the Right quickly say that the comment or counter argument is racist?
The same can be said about the voter fraud issue, when they keep using it knowing darn well that it is a tool of evil used against the citizens of this country, especially the minority, that it has already failed in its reasoning.
The Right are exhibiting racism when they argue over race and voter identity.
Hey MSNBC, the edits aren't working.
You need to get a serious clue, Joe. Read my post above and look at these links. Even the LRB director didn't think he was "publishing" the bill in the sense meant by statute.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/118677754.html
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_f22629e6-572a-11e0-ab2f-001cc4c002e0.html
And before you go accusing other people of lying, it might benefit you to inform YOURSELF.
Anna Molly
Thanks for the clarification. Sometimes all I know is what I read in the newspapers. (I think someone else also said that.)
Hi Navy,
GRAND SLAM on the First Post. The Republicans Tea Baggers don't want all of the people to vote and they are of the belief that voter suppression is needed, because people don't vote the way they should.
US Navy is still wetting himself over asking for identification to vote? Others still regugitating think progress talking points and about the article above......Obama's speech tonight? ......
People have been asking if Obama knows who these "innocent civilians" in Libya are. The West Point Center of Counter Terrorism has mentioned that Benghazi / East Libya has sent the most foreign fighters (per capita) into Iraq and Afghanistan to kill Allied / American soldiers.
In an article by the UK's Telegraph, Abdel-Hakim al-Hasidi, the Libyan rebel leader, - yep the jihadists who fought and killed allied troops in Iraq are on the front lines with al-Qaeda.
Chad's president, Idriss Deby Itno, said al-Qaeda had managed to pillage military arsenals in the rebel zones including surface to air missiles which they have smuggled into their sanctuaries.
So we are flying support missions for the guys Libya who are the same guys killing Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Great job Obama. Way to be on top of things.
BTW - Are your basketball picks doing as well as your picks in the the Mideast?
Hey MSNBC, the comment edit is not working.
@ Ron -- And that means you usually know more than most people, Ron. In this case, you knew more than Joe for all his blow.
Well, that explains why my last edit disappeared.
Even the LRB director didn't think he was "publishing" the bill in the sense meant by statute.
________________________________________
Which only strengthens my point that Dr. Ron was engaging in some creative lying.
Thank you for pointing that out AM.
US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired
Great post Navy
Hopefully your information won't fall on dead ears. I don't understand how any Hispanic could vote Republican with all the ludicrous laws and vitriol against them.
Job1:
Thank you for the kind words. Your post is right on the market. Seems we cannot edit or post votes today. Did Karl Rove buy MSNBC - FR
Does that mean the 'collapse cowards' have been put out of action as well? lol
Right on Navy. With all the money MSNBC generates, it seems they would be on top of things like this especially with the amount of traffic that goes through.
Joe in Albany
Gee, Dr. Ron, that wouldn't be some creative lying on your part would it?
The judges order applied to Secretary of State La Follette not publishing the law and HE DIDN'T PUBLISH IT. It was published by a non-partisan agency called the Legislative reference Bureau.
What's next for you lefty liberals??
Making sure people on the right are entitled to a brain transplant when so you righties can get it right; just kidding.
Seriously, though some of you have serious problems dealing with facts. To rely on all that therapy you're getting including your aspirin and psyche drugs could be eliminated if you just stop this denial.
It is farcical to think of Michelle Bachmann's criticism as sexist. Personally, I as a woman am offended she calls herself serious; especially after all the gains women have made since suffrage. She is taking women and America back; if you think in terms of backwards This is a Fox News Talking point and should be developed into a more serious discussion as to why would America, with all the baggage we have now, including the Iraqi debacle make ourselves look like a joke. How can the world take us seriously anymore?
Ron, thanks for pointing that out. I see folks are already defending the GOPTP's work to change the rules once again and make up an entirely new process for "publishing" legislation. They're big fans of privatization, perhaps in the future they could use Conservative mouthpiece Regnery Publishing.
This pattern of changing the rules repeatedly to get the desired outcome is strong evidence of the authoritarian nature of current Conservative leaders. Contrary to their empty rhetoric about being "true to the Constitution" their actions repeatedly show that their only REAL interest is consolidating their power and redistributing wealth from the middle to the top.
Bev:
They have always had trouble with the facts (truth). They proposed racism, sexism, religious intolerance and the wholesale stripping away of the rights of their citizens then turn around and blame everybody else (except themselves). It is a character flaw that cannot be corrected just like any habitual liar, crook etc. Simply put, they cannot control themselves as is evident every day on this board.
Who's lying again, Joe?
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_f22629e6-572a-11e0-ab2f-001cc4c002e0.html
For the record that wouldn't be Ron.
Thanks for playing.
Joe in Albany
The edit button does not work.
Trying it again...
What's next for you lefty liberals?
Making sure people on the right are entitled to a brain transplant when it becomes possible so you righties can get it right; just kidding.
Seriously, though some of you have serious problems dealing with facts. To rely on all that therapy you're getting including your aspirin and psyche drugs could be eliminated if you just stop this denial.
It is farcical to think of Michelle Bachmann's criticism as sexist. Personally, I as a woman am offended she calls herself serious; especially after all the gains women have made since suffrage. She is taking women and America back; if you think in terms of backwards This is a Fox News Talking point and should be developed into a more serious discussion as to why would America, with all the baggage we have now, including the Iraqi debacle make ourselves look like a joke. How can the world take us seriously anymore?
"Making sure people on the right are entitled to when it is possible a brain transplant so you'll be able to get it right. "
__________________________________
Good one, Bev. You really put me in my place with that one.
Moron.
First of all, I really appreciate Anna Molly giving clarification to my comments. And that is a major difference between Liberals and the GOP/TP. Anna Molly and I seek accuracy when reporting the truth. Tea Baggers like Joe are more interested trying to make a point, even if their point is inaccurate.
Thanks John B: How you come up with the facts is amazing. You are, indeed, the terminator of this argument.
I dont know why all the damnation for the tea party by the liberals. If it wasnt for them, we would still be spending ourselves into oblivion. The tea party has finally provoked an honest discussion about the debt issues we face. And face it, we must, or else be relegated to the dust-bin of once prosperous countries.
And what is a GOP/TP? The tea party might be caucusing with Republicans, but they are a wholly independent bunch. They despise the Democrats tax and spend policies while showing no love for Republican spending either. They have broken ranks with the Republicans by supporting Democrat wishes of downsizing the military while supporting Republican wishes in their quest for that $100 billion.
While socially, they might be very conservative, that is the least of our worries and problems at this time. And I, for one, am tired of the distraction. I am not in favor of putting the weight of all our financial problems on my kids and grandkids by continuing to kick the can down the road. I want to sacrifice some things we grown attached to as a country to ensure our children and our country has a fighting chance.
"Anna Molly and I seek accuracy when reporting the truth."
________________________________________
You just keep telling yourself that Dr. Ron. And someday it will actually be true. Just like the lottery, eventually, someone stumbles across the right numbers.
This doesn't even make sense. Why WOULDN'T you have a valid ID to vote? In my voting area we need a valid picture ID and our voter registration card, what's so difficult about that? I personally use my military ID, but they'll accept your drivers license and/or state identification card, student ID, library card (ours have our pictures on them) etc etc as long as it has your name and picture you can use it. I don't see a problem with that. Heck in most places it's the LAW that you have to carry identification in public!
Gee, when a couple of thugs from the Black Panthers turn up with clubs at a polling station, isn't that "voter intimidation?" Can't be since our AG said so. Right? Guess those intimidated were just members of that "nation of cowards."
Ron...do you and the rest of the liberals seek respect and a chance to be heard? If so, how about returning that respect by leaving out the profane name-calling like teabagger. It completely discredits your post, Doctor.
And what were YOU doing? Were you just misinformed or were you misrepresenting?
Your choice. I can live with either answer.
Well RC, the Bush Administration didn't think so;
http://prospect.org/csnc/blogs/adam_serwer_archive?month=07&year=2010&base_name=when_was_the_new_black_panther
All liberal crap lies. I'm puking from bias.
US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired
Bev:
They have always had trouble with the facts (truth). They proposed racism, sexism, religious intolerance and the wholesale stripping away of the rights of their citizens then turn around and blame everybody else (except themselves). It is a character flaw that cannot be corrected just like any habitual liar, crook etc. Simply put, they cannot control themselves as is evident every day on this board.
I think I know exactly why they are lying; especially T-baggers. Somehow if they cling to their denials, they think they can promulgate their superiority in numbers because they are afraid their outdated fetishes will vanish.
BTW: I can not understand how any Hispanic can vote Republican; especially the ways in which this crop of GOP/T-Baggers are emasculating them.
A new Pew Poll says the numbers are lower than should be for Hispanics.
A http://pewhispanic.org/reports/report.php?ReportID=140
The drop could be attributed to undocumented workers who may have been afraid to fill out census forms.
Can you blame them with that insane 1020 in Arizona's immigration law?
Worst in Kansas Rep: Illegal Immigrants Should Be “Shot Like Hogs”
After someone suggested shooting the hogs from helicopters, Peck quipped, “If shooting these immigrating feral hogs works, maybe we have found a [solution] to our illegal immigration problem.”
http://newsone.com/nation/associatedpress2/virgil-peck-resignation-petition-illegal-immigrants-shoot-like-hogs/
Funny, the article is about Libya, a war (#3) we are in. The President is going to make his first speech to the American people, not only that - but a week after he started it. All of the questions that have not been answered.
Not a lib above has mentioned it, or anything of any importance to the American people. The debt, jobs, etc.
Can't handle it, huh? That's OK. Obama can't handle the important stuff either.
Great post Ron and very disturbing. I can tell you from personal experience serving a GOP elected official that the extreme right firmly believes "the end justifies the means." Laws can be ignored or broken, innocents demonized and falsehoods spoken all in the name of "conservative values." Anything goes as long as it furthers the cause. The people I am referring to would send folks to the gas chambers. They would cry the whole time and protest they were "forced" to do it for the greater good, but the point is they would do it and believe they were doing what had to be done.
Hitler never believed he was doing something wrong in eliminating Europe's Jews and Gypsies. He thought he was doing what needed to be done to preserve the "aryan" race and Germany in particular. He never regarded himself as an evil man or a murderer. He was simply doing what was necessary and once again we see his spectre rising among the Tea Party elite. Heaven help us.
These are frightening times we live in and they will only get exponentially worse if we don't put a stop to it and soon.
Good posts today folks, keep up the good work.
1SGFitzsWife4ID
What a valid point, requiring ID so that 1 person 1 vote is insured seems like a reasonable requirement. Of course the left will say it is a racist stance and denying the rights of minorities to vote.
The left can no longer come up with valid debate only name calling "teabaggers", "racist". The left claims to be the party of tolerence, but the hate spewed on these message boards and by thier leaders shows otherwise.
I definetly agree with the post above the name calling discredits the posters.
In regards to our country's position on Libya, is the USA and NATO going to intervene in Syria, there were mass murders by the state in Syria over the weekend.
Were you just misinformed or were you misrepresenting?
_____________________________________________________
Gee, AM, would you please point out to me what below, from my original post, is misinfomed or misrepresented?
The judges order applied to Secretary of State La Follette not publishing the law and HE DIDN'T PUBLISH IT. It was published by a non-partisan agency called the Legislative reference Bureau.
thanks AM and I look forward to your response.
Oh and Bob 18 etc etc etc
Obama didn't start a war in Libya. We are not at war with Libya. He authorized our participation in a European action to establish a no-fly zone. VERY different. We have now withdrawn much of our military and sent them back to their other duties while the Europeans maintain the no-fly zone.
Please try to get your facts straight before you make outrageous and false statements about the commander and chief.
You might want to get your facts from someone other than Glen Beck or Fox News so you'll really know what's going on.
AZChzhd
......While their social issues might be very conservative, that is the least of our worries and problems at this time.
AZ..I'm afraid I disagree with your statement. I think social issues with regard to the TP are a big worry. I have listened to many who tie social issues and economic issues into a nice bow. Just last week Bachman was speaking of this. "Social conservatism is fiscal conservatism".
I really worry about their refusal to acknowledge the differences within our own culture...the right to marry....civil unions...single motherhood.....etc etc. These differences are not going away...on the contrary..they're becoming a bigger part of our society. How does the TP expect to exist in the future? They can't expect to fit everyone into their conservative mold.
More proof for lefty liberals that increasing taxes is counterproductive. From CNBC.com:
Caterpillar CEO Warns of Discomfort with Illinois
Reuters
| 28 Mar 2011 | 04:47 AM ET
The chief executive of Caterpillar has warned the governor of Illinois that state spending and an unfavorable business climate could undermine the competitiveness of Illinois-based companies.
Doug Oberhelman sent the letter last week to Gov. Pat Quinn, noting that four states have invited the Peoria-based heavy equipment maker to relocate since Illinois raised personal and corporate income taxes in January.
"I want to stay here. But as the leader of this business, I have to do what's right for Caterpillar when making decisions about where to invest," Oberhelman wrote in the letter obtained Friday by the Springfield news bureau of Lee Enterprises.
Oberhelman attached letters from the governors or other officials of Texas, Nebraska, Virginia and South Dakota, all of whom cited the recent Illinois tax hikes and offered to roll out the red carpet to Caterpillar.
There are FEES involved in obtaining a photo id. Obtaining a voter CARD does NOT cost a citizen MONEY. They got rid of the POLL TAXES as unconstitutional decades ago;
but yes, the Good Ole' Days Republicans can't wait to drag us BACK to a time when life was simpler and minorities could be oppressed.
They REALLY miss those days. Seems like if we re-implemented the LITERACY tests - that would probably favor Democrats, so we might as well fight fire with fire, no?
Frankusa- in regards to Libya I'm one of those *insert sarcasm here* "teabagging/GOP/etc etc" that from the very get go did NOT want to be involved for the sole fact of what you mentioned. Where does it end?
I was disturbed to hear Mrs. Clinton say "we're not ready to talk about Syria or Yemen yet."
Um yet? Does that mean there's the possibility that they WILL talk about it?
Clara I didn't pay a penny for my library card, student ID, OR my military ID. Just sayin. Oh and "fees" for a state issued identification card run right around 5-7.00 my drivers license was a whopping 10.00.
I agree with the literacy tests though, I'm all for it!
Skip:
Thanks for you words of wisdom. Your insight is greatly appreciated.
Sure wish our edit feature worked today. I also wanted to thank John B. for presenting the facts on the above topic. How he can find the facts so quickly is very impressive.
The title of the article "Making his case". I thought we would be discussing Libya. Liberals, I know you are more interested in what the GOP is doing. The govt did a great job of programming you people. Keep your eyes off what is important. Keep your eyes on the opponents.
Vermontgirl....in that sense I think I agree with you. I just dont tie in social issues with fiscal ones. I dont see how you can or why. I do wish regarding social issues, the Tea Party would be the true libertarians they strive to be by not even getting involved. You cant be against big government but yet try to regulate social issues.
Although I personally take a conservative stance on most social issues, I also agree to be a true libertarian by saying "to each their own." I do support the Tea Party in its quest to foster awareness of our debt problems. Seems they are the only people willing to do so. Republicans and Democrats dont seem to get it.
No you don't. You won't even read it. You'll just repeat your own blow again.
But one more time: By calling the LRB nonpartisan, you were trying to make it sound as if Walker and his cronies had done the right thing and it was all on the up and up. My point is that it wasn't and that even the LRB director doesn't agree with the way republicans are trying to spin it.
And if you had read anything credible about it before you said what you said, you would have known that. That would make what you said misrepresentation. And if you hadn't read anything about it, that would signal that you were misinformed, or rather uninformed.
But I've changed my own opinion on this, and I think you're just being perverse because you love to pick a fight.
This is nothing but corporate blackmail, as also seen on 60 Minutes last night, being practiced by companies who are so big they already don't know what to do with all their money, and who just want more. Tell you what - if Caterpillar, which has done its own share of union-busting in the past, and has been sued successfully multiple times in recent years for patterns of age discrimination and sexual harassment (if you don't believe me, then look it up), wants to leave Illinois for South Dakota, then South Dakota can have them.
Because good corporate citizens interested in employee welfare, Caterpillar ain't.
Well done Anna Molly, Well done.
leanderm
All liberal crap lies. I'm puking from bias.
OMG, then you need Kaopectate or Pepto-Bismol to save your electrolytes. No wonder you are so dizzy.
First of all if it hadn't been for Bobby Kennedy we wouldn't have an Eric Holder. Only he had the courage to stop James Meredith from threats of being lynched. Bobby Keneny sent federal marshals to protect During riots that followed Kennedy's decision, 160 marshals were wounded (28 by gunfire) and two bystanders were killed.
James Meredith was a 32-year-old civil rights activist began his solo 220-mile March against FEAR
Likewise Eric Holder is doing the same. The AG doesn't not have to re-litigate some bullsh!t trumped up charges emanating from That vitriolic FOX LEGAL anylast, Meagan Kelly just FOX NOISE needed to prove President Barack Obama had ACORN, register people frauduetly, election year “voter fraud” fear mongering.
This J. Christian Adams is a tool of the right wing violated civil service rules by improperly taking political and ideological affiliations into account when making career attorney hires] and still a bigot
Fear is FOX NOISE'S man product.
FYI: the NBP were in a Black neighborhood. futhermore, those 3 crack pots were denounced by the original Black Panthers.
AZChzhd - I think it would be historic for our entire country if the TP could settle into the debt issue and not be "sucked in to" all of the other garbage. I could certainly get behind them on this.
I too believe in "to each his own"...but man that's a hard walk for politicians isn't it?
"By calling the LRB nonpartisan," "That would make what you said misrepresentation. And if you hadn't read anything about it, that would signal that you were misinformed, or rather uninformed."
___________________________
Gee, AM, it wasn't me that called the LRB "non-partisan. It was the Associated Press that called them "non-partisan":
MADISON, Wis. (AP) — Wisconsin officials couldn't agree Friday about whether an explosive law taking away nearly all public worker collective bargaining rights was about to take effect after a nonpartisan legislative bureau published it despite a court order blocking implementation.
So, once again I ask you:
Gee, AM, would you please point out to me what below, from my original post, is misinfomed or misrepresented?
The judges order applied to Secretary of State La Follette not publishing the law and HE DIDN'T PUBLISH IT. It was published by a non-partisan agency called the Legislative reference Bureau.
thanks AM and I look forward to your response.
Navy's post focuses on a very important issue - suppressing voter participation. No one actually objects to some form of identification for registration or casting a ballot, only to the manipulation of the identification process to discourage or disqualify certain clases of voters.
For example, if it were found that divorced fathers who have any child support arrears - which includes a large number of men who suffered unemployment or sharply reduced incomes for some time, but did not obtain court-ordered reductions for their support payments - in some way constituted a likely voting bloc that officeholders find threatening, then maybe the mandatory form of identification chosen wouold be a U.S. passport. Unfortuntely, those men are barred from obtaining passports. Thus, they would be barred from voting.
Yes, the example is absurd. But it illustrates the point.
In fact, historically there have been many, many ways that voting rights were manipulated to preserve established interests, which is precisely what is now happening. Some have aleady been well-documented above.
In the 1840's and 1850's the Native American Party manipulated states' laws to prevent Irish immigrants, and even Catholics and Jews generally, from voting. Outrageous examples of this party's descendant, the "Know Nothings" of infamy, manipulating voting rights resulted in violent conflicts in New Orleans and Louisiana.
Armed thugs in the decades after the Civil War often hung out near polling places to intimidate voters - and that was not merely the case in the South after Reconstruction ended in 1877 when Black voters were steadily disenfranchised. It was also a pattern during the era of the Midwestern and Western "range wars," it notoriously infected some cities including St. Louis, Louisville, Cincinnatti, Chicago, Boston, New York and Philadelphia, and during the great era of labor strife between the 1880's and 1930's, was a dark feature of elections in coal and iron ore mining parts of the country.
Now, note that this discussion does encompass the evils of machine politics, vote buying, manipulation of ballot forms and mechanized ballot completion (which created handy ways of cheating), or related subjects. Those, too, crafted their own ills - and by the way, led to some extremely significant reforms over the decades that should have made elections far cleaner and reliable. What Navy's post points out, as well as a few more in support of that discussion, is that voter intimidation and manipulation seek to circumvent the reforms. And there's more that is at work today.
Since the rise of the computer in the 1960's as an integral tool of political campaign planning, management, and execution, a different form of voter intimidation has been at work. Thanks to enhanced sophistication in identifying types of voters and testing the effect of messages, campaign managers discovered that certain types of political message, mainly very negative, had the effect of alienating some voters. By using those techniques, the campaigns achieved two results - first, stimulating and hopefully motivating the "base" electorate, and second, driving "unreliable" swing voters away from the polls.
This is the principal reason that to this day so much vicious rhetoric, and often outright lying, infects politics. It is to manipulate, and intimidate, voters.
But the price has been growing alienation of a substantial body of the citizenry. People becoming increasingly disgusted with public life as a perceived cesspool of venality, dishonesty, self-interest, and worse also regard the public institutions as untrustworthy. The more people are driven out of the political process because they regard it as repellent, the greater the social, cultural, economic, and civic fractures appear. This concept of political advantage works, but it is attacking the fibers of American society.
In a bid to hold on to what now appears to be a short-lived position of power, the Tea Party adherents and their more moderate colleagues in the GOP are making matters only worse with manipulation of voter participation. A veritable orgy of extreme ideological actions, in Michigan, in Wisconsin, in many other states and jurisdictions, and in Washinton as well, certainly has caused a public backlash. Despite denials of the trend, the ultra-right is on its way to losing its opportunity to continue pursuit of its goals.
And so this attack on targeted groups of voters, and so this complete disregard for the well-being of the nation.
When all the corp's have left your States where the Liberals want to tax them to pay for all of your splendid ideas you will be sitting there playing fumblity bum and wondering whos left on the "rich" guy list to tax. For some reason you all think that money belongs to you. You all remind me of that old Felix the cat cartoon where he bought blowup friends..... Hi navy old pal old friend !! Hi Bev old pal old friend !! Hi anna old pal old friend !! Hi feisty old pal old friend !! Hi skip old pal old friend !! Over and over....... terrible waste of Oxygen!
$10 bucks may not be much to some; but for those without a car it is a significant amount -and all for the right to VOTE without hassle. Seems unnecessary - and I don't know where you live that a Library Card is an accepted PHOTO ID? And a student ID does have a FEE associated - I mean aside from the FEES of tuition. and your military id has a 'fee', I believe it is called enlistment or enlistment by association,...
so yes, in your NARROW view - it could happen for lots of people (including the retired and seniors? especially those who have had their licenses 'taken' due to age related issues?) but the fees make it preventive/restrictive.
I bet you think those 'dumb' New Orleans Resdients shoud have just LEFT before the levees breached, too? huh?
Some of you are simply too naive to even understand poverty - let alone have compassion for those who live it every day.
I'm sorry to Bev., Fiesty, Navy and the others, but I just don't understand your objections. As I understand it, there is a provision in the new laws allowing those who are poor to get an ID without the fee. This eliminates the "poll tax" objection.
As to having a state issued ID, I have had to show my drivers license every time I vote. When I was in college, I voted where I resided, at my parents home. If I truly had changed my residence, I would have had to get a new drivers license anyway.
I understand that requiring an ID, issued by the state, would slow some people down. However, the reality is you need to have an ID for living in this modern world anyway. Heres a short list of a few things you can't do without ID: Work, cash a check, have a bank account, drive, get a perscription, borrow a library book, go to college, enter a marathon race, get medical care, rent a house, get a mortgage, travel outside the US and reenter the US. Add vote to that list and it is not a burden.
I realize that voter fraud is probably not the problem politicians think it is. At the same time, union representation of public sector employees; abortions being done at Planned Parenthood; liberal bias at NPR; and job losses from Health Care reform are not what some politicians would have us believe. I realize it is just one more stumbling block being put up. I realize it is part of a pattern to disenfranchise voters who usually vote against the Republican party. I understand all that. I just happen to think that this is one where the phrase "though doth protest too much" comes to mind.
like I said Clara you can get a state issued ID for half that amount and as duh101 correctly stated you CAN get an ID for free, I'm sure all you have to do is go in and provide proof of income (or lack thereof) and like I also stated, where I live our library cards have our photo on them, I realize not all places do that.
My daughter (an 8th grader) has a student ID and it didn't cost her anything, I didn't specifically mean college ID.
As to your asinine question about N.O. yes, they should've left considering they were being OFFERED free bus rides, they CHOSE to stay.
Duh101- Spectacular post! You said it perfectly!
Clara - you brought to mind another example of the way conservative politicians showed their fear of voting rights of the poor and struggling people. In the legislation that creatd Lyndon Baines Johnson's "Great Society" program, lawmakers of both parties feared how educating, organizing, and empowering people in poverty might affect elections.
I don't intend here to introduce a discussion of the "Great Society" programs' virtues, faults, successes, failures, or ideology - I'm simply recalling what happened in the legislative process.
A central feature of that program involved quite a substantial bit of organizing of enrollees and even giving them a share in decisions about conducting programs. Members of Congress alized that in the process, they might also be activating people who previously rarely voted or participated in politics - and that this newly-empowered crop of voters would be a very big group that voted its own interests.
So the final legislation carefully emasculated the political potential as much as it could - and, in the process, also chopped out some features that might have actually made successful a number of projects aimed at reducing poverty.
Remember "Power to the people!" - ? What most politicans, of all stripes, really mean is, "But just OUR people."
Great scholarship, John A. Thanks for bringing history into this discussion. Vote suppression is an inherently anti-egalitarian, undemocratic process. Those who engage in it are no friends of our nation.
1SGFitzsWife4ID
M'am, your statement is absolutely off the mark. I was in New Orleans until about two hours before Katina hit, while colleagues of mine bravely stayed behind to guard our business interests in the French Quarter.
From the time the evacuation announcement was made between noon and one pm the previous day, until the hurricane struck, the city was literally in a panic. The streets were clogged, the highways practically at a standstill, and on Saturday afternoon, getting to the airport took hours, if people could get through at all.
Many people in parts of the city, especially the lower 9th Ward, neither had means of getting out of their neighborhoods or getting to those "free buses," which arrived too late and at the wrong place in the city.
By early Sunday morning, the hotel at which I had stayed managed to open its rooms to families of staff who knew they were trapped with no means of escape. The wind and rain even then was fierce and cold.
Your disdainful dismissal of the victims of that terrible hurricane comes from ignorance of the facts on the ground, I'm sure. You couldn't really be so insensitive and callous as your comment implied.
To all you left liberals, I am tired of you spending my money, spend your own. And if 'disenfranchising" voters means not allowing illegal aliens and dead people, or to vote twice, then I'm all for it.
first of all keep congress from voteing themself a rase three times a year,get rid of there goverment cards,get rid of there limo's let then drive to work like everyone else does,stop paying for stuiped things like $300.00 for a toilet and a $100.00 for an ashtray how knows what else they do ,start useing the oil surplusget the gas prices back down to $ 1.68 a gallon like Bush did,all of you right know are killing the low & middle class people.
Joe:
Sigh. The key, of course, is in the actual meaning of the word "publish," and the whole thing highlights that you maybe shouldn't unthinkingly believe everything you read, just because it looks like it supports your position. Just because -- or maybe especially because -- Scott Fitzgerald says something, doesn't make it so, Joe.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/118677754.html
But isn't that just like a conservative to believe it?
Great. And I assume I'll get to pick what I spend it on, too, Skiddy ... right? And if I don't like what you like to spend your money on, then I don't have to spend my money on that, either ... right?
So ... things I don't want to spend MY money on ... let's start with the war. No more war. And then, let's move on to subsidies for oil companies. No more subsidies for oil companies. And after that, subsidies for the Chamber of Commerce. No more Chamber of Commerce. And tax breaks for corporations. No more tax breaks for corporations. And no subsidies for farmers not to grow things. And no subsidies of any kind for religious charities.
Okay. Now we're talking. This could be fun. And it will lower MY tax bill by a ton. Thanks, Skiddy.
Clara KCMO
$10 bucks may not be much to some; but for those without a car it is a significant amount -and all for the right to VOTE without hassle. Seems unnecessary - and I don't know where you live that a Library Card is an accepted PHOTO ID? And a student ID does have a FEE associated - I mean aside from the FEES of tuition. and your military id has a 'fee', I believe it is called enlistment or enlistment by association,...
so yes, in your NARROW view - it could happen for lots of people (including the retired and seniors? especially those who have had their licenses 'taken' due to age related issues?) but the fees make it preventive/restrictive.
I bet you think those 'dumb' New Orleans Resdients shoud have just LEFT before the levees breached, too? huh?
Some of you are simply too naive to even understand poverty - let alone have compassion for those who live it every day.
Clara what do you know about poverty in New Orleans pre and post Katrina? Did you learn it from Kanye West. The people that stayed there thought that they were invulnerable, that nothing could happen to them. They stayed there because they didn't think it would be that bad. Many stayed to guard their drug operations also.
I live in Baton Rouge, 60 miles away, and personally witnessed the outflux of crime from New Orleans after Katrina. I also witessed the influx of illegal migrant workers into New Orleans to rebuild. Over night my city was filled with carjackers and robbers and New Orleans was fileld with MS-13 and Latin Kings gang members. This is something that really didn't worry me very much, because in Louisiana we can freely have a fire-arm. If I were in New York, then my pistol would have to be disassembled in the trunk with the ammo in the glovebox. What good would that do in a carjacking?
In my area I see supporters of democratic candidates actually target poverty, neighborhoods driving in with 16 passenger vans, and bussing to the polls to vote for their candidate and give them a meal afterwards. The votes of these people have already been purchased by social programs. They will always vote to continue the free ride.
Simple skip,
War - A period of hostile actions between countries, states, or factions that leads to fighting between armed forces, especially in land, air, or sea.
What part do you do not understand?
When you launch 114 cruise missiles in one night, have a military command for the destruction of a country's air defense capabilty, wipe out their command and control capacity, eliminate their armoured units,.........
You realize F-15s aren't little Cessnas taking couples site seeing the lights of Tripoli at night, right?
Yea, we did 90% of the dirty work, the risk, the expense and the little guys can play safe now, but who is providing the intelligence resources, the re-fueling ........ btw - all the Arab League has to do is whistle and their little poodle Obama will be right there.
Obama is the probably the most incompetent commander in chief of all time and is clueless and gutless about foreign policy. An absolute joke.
Still not any good at this, huh?
But you are probably like what you were saying about Hitler - you don't even realize it.
Reported in NY Times yesterday,
"Senators John McCain and Joseph I. Lieberman both spoke Sunday in support of the allied camapign in Libya and the imposition of a no-flight zone, arguing that the effort has prevented a mass slaughter of Libyans by the forces loyal to Colonel Qaddafi.
"He said himself he would house to house and kill and murder people," Mr. McCain, the Arizona senator and Republican presidential canadidate in 2008, said on "Fox News Sunday". Thank God at the 11th hour with the no-fly zone, we prevented that from happening.
"If you had allowed Qaddafi to do that, that would be a signal to the other leaders in the Middle East, dictators and not, that it's OK to massacre your own people to stay in power," he added. "And finally, well, this is a moment of historic proportions. And this will give us a golden opportunity to help with democracy and freedom throughout the Arab world."
Lieberman said similar. I wrote this down because our local TV station clipped the interview and portrayed McCain and Lieberman as saying the opposite of what is recorded above.
Imagine you had been in Benghazi waiting for those tanks to roll in, listening to your children cry and yourself cry as you waited for the sound of tanks rolling onto your street. NBC Engel reported that the tanks were very close by, when the airstrikes began and prevented the massacre. So let's not piddle around when we speak about it: following terrifying death threats towards tens of thousands of our fellow human beings, the US initiated/co-created an historic and super-efficient international response; the process is going very well indeed; crystal balls not included.
John A- no I'm not completely callous, as I recall the hurricane also hit parts of Texas (my state) and heck we even have had a couple of more since then. Want to know the difference?
We did what we had to, to get the hell out of the way, when it was over, we went back and rebuilt just like we always do. We didn't sit around whining and crying for FEMA to come "save us"
Here we are almost 6 years later, and N.O. STILL hasn't finished rebuilding, so I don't really want to hear it.
Though I do notice you only had something to say about my thoughts on Katrina and not the actual topic at hand.
Hey disabled vet. How can you say you're not allowed to post? You have a gazillion of them on just this topic alone. And you obviously are a democrat. What is wrong with showing some sort of LEGAL proof that you are indeed a U.S. citizen? Driver's license? I can get it for you wholesale (Massachusetts, hotbed of illegals).
http://biggoverment.com/2010/01/19/why-is-this-woman-handing-out-absentee-ballots
You sound completely callous to me. Do you seriously believe that Texas received the same level of damage that New Orleans did? As I recall it, the brunt of the damage was in New Orleans and points EAST, including the Mississippi coast. Texas not nearly so much. And none of the hurricanes you've experienced since then have even approached that same level of destruction.
But maybe more importantly, do you seriously believe that Texas residents received NO federal money for your rebuilding efforts? No cleanup assistance? No low interest rebuilding loans? No federally subsidized flood insurance?
Because I'd sure be interested to see the evidence on that.
Anna molly (post 1.51) - Right sweety, and if caterpillar does leave illinois, will those illinois workers gladly relocate? If enough government taxation and regulations occur to make caterpillar relocate more manufacturing facilities overseas, will those US workers gladly relocate?
Bet obama is depending on Cat to play a significant role in creating exportable, made in the USA products. Obviously you could care less about trying to maintain a manufacturing base here in the USA. Bet you just love our service oriented economy. An economy where you can have unskilled labor doing the services and the highly educated, skilled technicians handle the IT and R & D work so that American based companies can send what they designed overseas to be manufactured at a price that the American consumer is willing to pay. Yep, our middle calss is dying and you give us a prime example of why, AKA screw business, we don't need them!
Corporate blackmail? How droll! What is a union going out on strike called? It sure isn't collective bargaining! Perhaps you should stop living in the past and start thinking forward. We have global competition and it doesn't take much thought to realize that foreign based companies have no problem in eating Americas lunch.
　
Clara - 1 picture ID = 1 vote. Price of admission to vote seems to be pretty cheap. ID's can last a lifetime (been carrying my paper SS card around for years). Last election when I had to show a picture ID, I jokingly asked them a question about what would happen if I had moved recently. The voter board said "not a problem, you can register to vote that same day". That concerned me, relying on a computer to update my registration in real time.
John A and Anna Molly -
I've moved on from this empty rhetoric,...in as many posts they are now FOR subsidizing voter photo ID and in the SAME posts telling us they don't want government spending.
I can do pretzel; but I can't do this Houdini Contortionism. STTTTS on this one,...and we certainly DO know them by their deeds.
These buses were taking the New Orleans residents to WHERE exactly? and who was paying for THAT lodging?
This disaster highlighted as much as anything that coastal states are woefully unprepared for Natural Disasters, let alone a Terrorist Attack - and all this YEARS After the department of Homeland Security was established to make us MORE safe.
But, Brownie sure did a heckofa job! It is clear they don't think things ALL the way through and they certainly are comfortable BLAMING the victims. I mean everyone should be so GENIUS as they that have it ALL figured out.
And did I just read that an 8th grade Student ID - being free and all is sufficient for voting? Someone better check the Voter Registration rolls down south Texas way,...Something's amiss.
No I won't say that Anna (for federal funding) in fact Texas probably gets more than most states, but we actually ASK for it, unlike N.O. remember how everyone "blamed Bush" for not "responding in a timely manner" when it came to FEMA aide? do you know why that is? The state has to ASK for it!
The Mayor didn't even issue an evacuation order until less than a day before Katrina made landfall!
New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin was also criticized for failing to implement his evacuation plan and for ordering residents to a shelter of last resort without any provisions for food, water, security, or sanitary conditions. Perhaps the most important criticism of Nagin is that he delayed his emergency evacuation order until less than a day before landfall, which led to hundreds of deaths of people who (by that time) could not find any way out of the city.[2] Adding to the criticism was the broadcast of school bus parking lots full of yellow school buses which Mayor Nagin refused to be used in evacuation. When asked why the buses were not used to assist evacuations instead of holing up in the Superdome, a lack of insurance liability and bus drivers were given as reasons.
Ugh again this is so completely off topic,
Boy, its warm in here today........
skippy - get in touch with reality...
Obama and company went from "no support for a no fly zone" to "launch missiles" in 5 days. NATO supposidly took over air to air opperations sometime in the last 5 days, while giving obama the task of taking out ground targets. Yet we are still there, and we are still saying qaddafi must leave because he threatened his rebellious citizens.
What's next Syria (they have dead in the streets), Jordan? Yemen? Bahrain?
What US ships have left the Med? What air units have been redeployed elsewhere?
You girly girls continually blast bush2 for Iraq but have only support for obamas current military actions. Both presidents went in for the same reason, nation building by US standards.
Obama stepped in with both feet on this one, I just hope he has learned how to close the deal. If his past two years of being unable to close deals are any indication we are in a heap of trouble.
I have relatives in harms way, this is not a "call of duty" game, some will walk away, some will be carried away and some will never see their families again. But it is not a war is it?
Alright, you people are silly for collapsing this. I don't agree with the left, but was interested in reading everything. Now I have to expanded and scroll ALL THE WAY DOWN everytime I refresh. :-P
Tsk, tsk, tsk. As I recall it -- and unlike you, apparently, I DO recall it -- Katrina went across Florida on Thursday into Friday of the week before as a category 1 storm, then entered the Gulf and made a hard right for New Orleans, where it landed on Monday, I believe.
Ah, yes. And so it was.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina
There was less than a day of notice for evacuation because the intensification of Katrina into a Category 5 hurricane and the unusual turn towards New Orleans came as a complete surprise and left little time to prepare. But don't blame Mayor Nagin for the federal government's slow response. Even though George W. Bush was fully briefed as the hurricane moved in on New Orleans (I've seen that video WAY too many times), he went off to Arizona to attend a birthday party for John McCain ON THE SAME DAY that Katrina struck.
There's pictures on the web of that, and everything. Look it up. Better yet, just click.
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/24/flashback-as-katrina-raged-mccain-celebrated-69th-birthday-with-bush/
Besides, it wasn't the failure to evacuate that left most of New Orleans in ruins. And it wasn't even the storm itself. It was the busted levees, maintained by the federal government, that did that.
Anna Molly-
I've no intention of jumping into your argument regarding Hurricane Katrina, but be careful when using a user-content and user-edited source like wikipedia...there's more than a little inaccurate information at that site.
Although, now that I think of it, it's certainly more reliable than thinkprogress, isn't it?
;-)
Clara -
The republican controlled State of Texas just passed voter ID and in the bill was a resolution that state issued ID cards are to be FREE of charge and they (libs) are still screaming it's discriminatory. Yes, I know, it's such a hardship for someone to get off their a$$ and go get a FREE ID. I'd bet they'd find a way to get there if the local license office was giving away televisions for free.
As for Libya, we are coming to the aid of Europe, who needs stability in the region for their oil. You can call it anything you want, but it's a war and it's all about oil. You can call it a humanitarian effort, but what is it that makes Libya so special that we are are worried about them and not any of the other countries that have dictators who commit atrocities every day? Simple - they don't have the oil. When's the last time you saw Europe act so fast on ANYTHING? They are hurting economically and do not need volitility in the oil market at this moment to make things worse.
Droll? Me? Please. Do you have any idea how much Caterpillar executives make? They're not hurting from all this competition. They just take it out of the workers' pockets, one way or the other. Moving to South Dakota will just allow them to take a little more from a more ignorant, more compliant workforce.
As for the rest of your post, perhaps you should read this to see how that global competition thing works out in general for the average worker, even when their employers are given huge tax breaks, supposedly to help them be more competitive in the global economy.
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/03/14/oracles-catz-says-businesses-need-1-trillion-tax-holiday/
Companies are not interested in using their tax breaks to create jobs for workers. They're only interested in using their tax breaks to merge and acquire new companies and/or shed expenses -- i.e., workers -- and thereby line their shareholders' pockets.
So, don't accuse me of not living in the present. I think I can see pretty well how the present works. I just don't like it.
By the way, a strike is in fact, part of collective bargaining where it isn't banned by law. It's the final weapon that employees have in their arsenal when employers refuse to reach agreement. Just like the lock-out, currently being used in the NFL, is management's final weapon.
So don't tell ME about collective bargaining. You apparently don't know anything about that, either.
And do you have any FACTS that would dispute EITHER of those sources, Bag Boy?
I think we both know the answer to that. Attacking the source, without more, doesn't put the facts into dispute.
Besides, the Wikipedia account is completely consistent with my recollection. I recall it well because of what I happened to be doing at the time. As for the birthday party, I recall that, too, but perhaps The New York Times would be more to your liking.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/01/us/politics/01web-nagourney.html
I highly doubt you'll find that little embarrassment still visible anywhere easily accessible in the conservative blogosphere. But that doesn't make it false.
My apologies, Anna Molly.
I thought you knew that the information on wikipedia can be edited by its users. You're 100% correct...wikipedia isn't necessarily a questionable source.
Sorry...I shouldn't have interrupted.
:-(
Too funny, Bag Boy. Of course, I know that Wiki can sometimes be wrong, but it isn't always. And as I said it's consistent with my recollection.
I apologize if I was too harsh. I'm sometimes in a hurry and grab the first source I find that meets my needs. Ironically, my job requires that I have good sourcing, but I don't always have time to do it here.
You can interrupt anytime, Bag Boy. Mea culpa.
AM-
The Mills Bros., from so long ago...still...classic.
"You always hurt...the one you love...
lol
;-)
American for Israel-
It's always going to be uncomfortably "warm" for supporters of Israel here at First Read...
Now that you mention it...this sweater is just TOO much...!
I'm becoming more and more convinced that the leftys here at First Read are the ones collapsing the Feisty Redhead's posts...
I would never vote to collapse Feisty.
She's been a stronger advocate for my views than I have, for heavenssake...!
Not intentionally, of course.
But still...
In your dreams, Bag Boy. But maybe that's why you're too warm. LoL
Anna Molly-
Maybe...
President Obama has effectively juggled many of the issues that address the United States of America. From the economy to foreign policy, he has elevated the role of president to a level that may never be seen before nor shall be seen again, at least not in my lifetime.
In the face of tragedy, in the face of betrayals, in the face of criticisms, in the face of evil, in the face of death and even in the face of elephants President Obama has not only survived, but he seems to stamp out these destructive and engulfing fires with a cool ice-like way of being "I'm like rubber you're like glue, what bounces off of me sticks to you," attitude. And there are people that have been in power for years that cannot deal with the fact that his attitude is what is keeping as well as redeeming the US relations, internally and externally, to a good standing.
President Obama's critics come in all forms, potential candidates that are failed office holders, failed governors, failed entertainers and failed critics that would love to "take their country back." His critics come as former politicians now "media pundits/commentators" (see failed category above), "experts" and so on and so forth. They are envious and awe-struck at what he has accomplished in spite of the doom and gloom atmosphere.
And then you have those on the Left, those that say they supported him, then feel slighted when the president compromises with the Right only to come to terms that the president was correct all along. These type of critics need to allow the president to preside over the issues and not allow the media to corner them with their comments toward the president only to have to walk them back when they see the president's plan come out positive.
President Obama is operating on a level that few can touch. Many of the issues require a specialist type attitude and the president is nowhere near perfect, but works with an attitude toward perfectionism.
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
Louis:
How true. Tonight President Obama will lay out what is going on and where we are going with Libya. It looks like NATO is going to be in the drivers seat on this. I hope his is true, but we have to wait and see. You can bet though, no matter what he says the GOP/TP will find fault with it, even though many of them wanted us to go into Libya with guns blazing and bombs a dropping.
I'm still trying to figure out what was wrong with President Obama's messaging on Libya.
Seemed pretty clear to me. The outcome? We don't know. How can we know?
Rebels fight for their lives against a brutal dictator; a SOB dictator who freakin' blew up an airplane for goodness sakes, and America sits in front of their tv's, waiting for better messaging.
There's plenty of reporting going on if people truly care about what's going on in Libya.
Pat:
Agreed. We have to remember the GOP/TP agenda to oppose our President not matter what and maker him fail no matter what. The Flip Flopper's are hard at work are they not. Problem is they are all on record in support before they were not. It is just because it has President Obama's name attached to it. Anything with his name on it is automatically assaulted, even if they agreed two weeks ago or not. Hypocrites all of them. No doubt since they took charge of the House. Still no leadership from them at all. Just more whining and no compromises.
I can't wait for the President's speech tonight where he will talk about an issue of national importance and vital interest for the American people. I will be glued to my set.
Obama will participate in a town hall education meeting at a Washington high school in the morning which will be broadcast on Univision at 7pm EST. Will have English captions for those that need it.
Tomorrow the critics will say he didn't say enough or that he didn't say anything at all and if that isn't enough, they'll say everything the president said by twisting his words to make it sound like he said what they said to make themselves feel important. Get it? Good.
Come on, Pat, you know it wasn't a MESSAGING problem; but rather a RECEPTOR problem. These WINGERS are going to EXPLODE from all of the double speak and 'confusion'. The only confusion on Libya is that which they hope to drum up into a fomented lather about things that they can't wrap their simple little pea brains around. President Obama is IN CHARGE! and he is making decisions that suited them three weeks ago; but by golly - they have to RUN AWAY from now because if they are caught agreeing with him, they simply will not be electable to their fringe base.
I wish everyone could have seen Bill Maher's Final New Rule Friday night. It was the PERFECT explanation of where these WINGERS stand on America,...
In a nut shell, their 2012 Presidential Candidate will be Karab Amabo, the Home Schooled antithesis of anything Obama. It is hysterical and I think VERY representative of their (sic, simple) mindset.
And hopefully he will fill us in on the fact that Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood are on board with our actions. Feel good story. They like us. Oh wait a minute, ya think we may be doing their dirty work for them? Look at the happenings with these two "factions" in Egypt over the last week or two. We push out Daffy duck and they get the upper hand on the playing field. They, and their agenda are pushing the rebels. And all is good? Think again.
Good morning, fellow warmongers...er, sorry...I mean fellow "military interventionists".
Today's the big day, eh?
Yesterday's highlight, for me anyway, was CNN correspondent Candy Crowley's interview with Senator Carl Levin.
Senator Levin, the Chairman of the Armed Services Committee, was asked whether the coalition should be arming the Libyan rebels.
Senator Levin replied that the coalition should only supply arms to the rebels in order to prevent a humanitarian disaster. Hmmm...an excellent example of the liberal/progessive mindset as applied to military warfare.
Senator Levin appears blissfully unaware that the Libyan rebels have an agenda separate and apart from any incidental "humanitarian" concerns...their central line of work appears to be the destruction of Moammar Gaddafi's regime. If they are given a no-fly zone, a CAP, air-to-ground combat support, and now arms, it's safe to assume that they will use all of these to pursue their primary goal.
And...that goal is not humanitarian in nature, Senator Levin.
I can't believe that a man this naive chairs the Armed Services Committee...Democrats can do better, eh?
Mixed Bag - now I'm certainly NOT going to question your "smarts" - but maybe, just maybe by virtue of the fact that he sits on the ASC, the good Senator has information you are not privy to....yet.
LouisJ - nice post - you hit on one of the things that makes me the craziest (yeah, I know, I'm a liberal so there must be MANY!!) When did we become entitled to know every detail every minute? I personally think we all need to take a step back, let a few things happen in due course and then discuss.
Last week I read some blogs on Fox from a woman who was so irate and downright hateful towards our President because she could not access his financial records from college. She wanted to know HOW he got in to school, WHAT financial assistance did he have, WHO gave him loans and what % rate/repay period did he receive. And until that information was given to her...well he's just a ___— and a __— and a ____...etc etc. Then there was a tail of 14 people agreeing and demanding on their own. WOW...just WOW. I don't recall anyone asking those questions of Nixon, Carter, Clinton, Bush etc.....what changed? (that was rhetorical)
Can we all chill just a little bit? I know we all have "the google" which makes us all political pundits and military strategists...but geez...as I tell my lab "settle, just settle"....
Wow VG, sounds like some citizens of the "land of opportunity" wish President Obama could have been denied the opportunity to pull himself up by his bootstraps.
MB-
Come clean; Are you being intentionally disingenuous, or is the political necessity of the moment and the rhetoric it requires too subtle for your palate? I can't believe that you believe that the man who chairs the "Committee on Armed Services" is naive, or "blissfully unaware", or that the ultimate goal is "humanitarian".
The "mindset" you allude to is simply the newspeak rhetoric necessitated in the aftermath of our misadventures in "regime change" in another country that shall remain nameless, as in Iraq...
Everybody knows what's REALLY going on in Libya, but our own recent history, current credibility in that area and the toxic political environment here have made any "straight talk" a liability to the speaker.
Woodrow Wilson was the first progressive...and joined WWI
FDR was the father of the new deal and a devotee of Eugene Debs...and joined the allies in WWII...
Lyndon Johnson passed the voting rights act, authored the "great society" and...faked the "gulf of tonkin incident" to escalate the war in Viet Nam...
So what was that "...example of the liberal/progessive mindset as applied to military warfare."?
dangerfield-
Welcome!
My comment about Senator Levin's remarks yesterday highlights what I see as a determined effort to somehow portray President Obama's military intervention in Libya as primarily "humanitarian" in nature...that's what strikes ME as disengenuous. Of course, you're entited to your opinion regarding who's being most disengenuous in the conversation about Libya...I'm not here to try to persuade you, of all people, that the hypocrisy surrounding the intervention in the Libyan civil war is confined to one side of the aisle only.
Hardly...
I'll tell you this, though...the President's actions, humanitarian concerns aside, have changed the momentum in this conflict. President Obama's coalition has killed enough Libyan Army soldiers, and destroyed enough armor and aircraft to put the Libyan rebels back on the offensive.
Those rebels are not humanitarians, dangerfield.
And you know it.
John B, Des Moines, IA
Wow VG, sounds like some citizens of the "land of opportunity" wish President Obama could have been denied the opportunity to pull himself up by his bootstraps.
Ha! Suffice it to say, they wish he would have been denied A LOT of things! But since you're being extremely tactful JB...I will too! When I responded by asking the poster why she didn't believe a birth certificate problem would have been uncovered via loans, school, security clearances she insisted it was a "vast left wing conspiracy" "started years ago" - and then she called me a commie. Okaaaaaayyyy.... moving right along!
Sen Levin is my (god it makes me shiver) Senator, and MB I concur with you. There was no reason to choose this conflict over any of the others going on. It appears that Mr Obama is going to say that "We asked our friends to help us with Desert Storm and they did ......so now when they asked us we really couldnt say no!" Im not sure I buy that but Im sure he will throw in a few other reasons that will make the feel good people all kumbayaish and want to toast marshmellows. Im with MB on this, these people are people who dont like us..... as soon as this regime is gone they will go back to wanting to kill us again. I trained several muslim countries military's in weapons systems and even the moderate muslims still called our women whores and the rest of us infidels! just the way it is.
Reported in NY Times yesterday,
"Senators John McCain and Joseph I. Lieberman both spoke Sunday in support of the allied camapign in Libya and the imposition of a no-flight zone, arguing that the effort has prevented a mass slaughter of Libyans by the forces loyal to Colonel Qaddafi.
"He said himself he would go house to house and kill and murder people," Mr. McCain, the Arizona senator and Republican presidential candidate in 2008, said on "Fox News Sunday". Thank God at the 11th hour with the no-fly zone, we prevented that from happening.
"If you had allowed Qaddafi to do that, that would be a signal to the other leaders in the Middle East, dictators and not, that it's OK to massacre your own people to stay in power," he added. "And finally, well, this is a moment of historic proportions. And this will give us a golden opportunity to help with democracy and freedom throughout the Arab world."
Lieberman said similar. I wrote this down because our local TV station clipped the interview and portrayed McCain and Lieberman as saying the opposite of what is recorded above.
Imagine you had been in Benghazi waiting for those tanks to roll in, listening to your children cry and yourself cry as you waited for the sound of tanks rolling onto your street. NBC Engel reported that the tanks were very close by, when the airstrikes began and prevented the massacre. So let's not piddle around when we speak about it: following terrifying death threats towards tens of thousands of our fellow human beings, the US initiated/co-created an historic and super-efficient international response; the process is going very well indeed; crystal balls not included.
Easy. He's going to lie to us, same as always. It's going to sound nice, but it's going to be as truthful as his campaign promise to put his healthcare package on CSPAN for everyone to see before Congress voted on it. He's as smooth as Hitler ever dreamed of being and he's just getting warmed up. It will cost us billions of dollars if it costs us a dime. The sky is truly the limit.
Ok, libs, tell me how this is related to racism or how it's all Sarah Palin's fault.
Your truly nuts. He is a moron elected by morons and liberal children. He spends money without thought and has proliferated the wars we are in and has now entered another. Our country is broke and he has brokered deals with the help of Tim Geitner (the bankers friend) with banks and wall street that will cost our middle class and poorest citizens for a century. Our dollar is now wampum in the world. He is a war criminal and protector of the super rich. If this is change for the good please stop. Do you miss Bush yet??? I do!!
Really, you just stated Bush, war criminal and super rich all in the same paragraph? SMH.
All lib lies, trying to let illegals and felon miniorities to vote not only once but several times.
No one is above the Constitution -- not even the President; and, no one can justify such blatant lawlessness. Our military does not exist for his amusement to do with what he pleases. Not only was there no war declared; this criminal went in unilaterally without consulting Congress. He MUST be punished! Impeach him now!
The hypocritical left is in full support of Obama's military action, defending it to the hilt. If a republican were in office the left would take a completely different stance. They would vehemiently oppose any involvement by a Republican president. They would be saying exactly what the right is saying now... How many innocent lives have been lost, how much will this cost us, why would the president want to drag us into a 3rd war?
But, since this is the worshipful master Obama, the left has done a 180 because Obama has his loyal followers believing every lie he tells. Snakeoil salesman comes to mind.
It is a fact the left never thinks through their agenda to come up with an end game. I know this will piss off every liberal that posts to First Read... but George Bush was correct with his end game of Iraq. Form a democracy in Iraq and it will spread through the region. Amazing how Egypt was first with cries of freedom... then Libya, Syria... on and on.... if these countries allow terrorists to take over then their efforts are all in vain. From where I sit, why would the middle east be on fire if the people were content with the tyrants and dictators that were running their respective countries? To allow new tyrants and dictators to take over seems like an awful waste of energy to me. Of course giving George Bush any credit for this will cause a severe case of vomititus by the left... I give the probability of collapse of this post 100%
Leftys love to criticize but hate it when someone points out their idiocy... To use FR as a sounding board against republicans and not sticking to the article is childish. I know Navy Vet was sitting by his phone waiting for that notification to be texted to him that a new FR article was published. I'll be he had his first post already written and copied... when that text came through, he frantically wanted to be the first poster... it didn't matter to him what the article was about, his foaming and frothing overtook him and he pasted the copied text in haste to be the first to rail against his opposition. Then in rapid succession, the other left loons gathered their associated thoughts and gave him praise for such thoughtful insights. Kudos Navy Vet.... you were the first to spread your hate speech no matter what the article was about. You actually beat out the red headed stepchild.
Jo you contradicted yourself. And do you mean above the law -- or do you guys just love to say Constitution because Glenn, the entertainer, tells you to?
LouisJ - right on...!
He is still juggling and has failed to close the deal on obamacare, wall st reform, shovel ready private sector jobs and has carried on business as usual in Iraq, Afghanistan and the mideast in general. He has ignored the American people WRT his bipartisan debt commision, turning over private job creation to his wall st. and corporate buds, and has proven to be very selective on how he treats our allies.
If he would only stop his juggling and start closing what he started.
"specialist type attitude" indeed. Ineffective leadership and an incoherent foreign policy is more like it based on what I have seen so far. Hurry up, action this day, we can change our direction tommorow! Tonights address is the perfect case in point. The address should have been made on march 19.
I have no doubt that being POTUS is far beyond what he ever imagined it to be, I waited over a year to see how he would lead, and am still waiting.
Perfection has no place in politics, for politics is not based on mathematical absolutes or even a physical science.
Don't expect an effective rebuttal from LouisJ, american 2051576...or perhaps, any rebuttal at all.
LouisJ is looking for race-based opposition to President Obama.
He's not aware that there's any other kind.
Of course, he jumps on the race bandwagon as fast as anyone I know.
Running from one issue to another in this stream doesn't change the fundamental fact that President Obama has exceeded his Presidential Authority by ordering troops into Libya. The Constitution is VERY clear in terms of military involvement: No President may involve military troops in any act of aggression or attack domestic or abroad; unless America or its' citizens are under direct attack; without Congressional approval. To do so, IS AN IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE UNDER CONSTITUTIONAL LAW.
Whether it was George Washington ordering troops to cross the Delaware, Abraham Lincoln ordering northern troops into civil war battles; John Kennedy sending Troops to Vietnam or George Bush sending troops to Iraq; All of these Presidents (regardless of political affiliation) First had to obtain Congressional Approval for such actions taken.
President Obama not only ordered military involvement; but, he didn't even notify Congress until AFTER the fact. Obama can try to talk his way out of this until he is "blue in the face"; but, just how many Constitutional laws, regulations and amendments does he have to trample on until everyone has had enough?
In case this isn't good enough for all you Obama Zombies out there, Let me remind you what your President's Right Hand Man. Vice President Joe Biden, stated regarding this issue in 2007, when President Bush was considering invading Iraq.:
"During a 2007 interview on MSNBC Hardball, Joseph Biden emphasized strongly that a president who invades another country without the consent of Congress must be impeached.
Biden was sending a warning to Commander in Chief George W. Bush not to invade Iraq. Commander in Chief Barack Obama has invaded Libya without consulting Congress or seeking the consent of Congress. Unless Joe Biden is a liar or a hypocrite, Biden must advocate that the United States House of Representatives impeach Barack Obama."
Democratic Members of Congress, have openly stated that President Obama exceeded his authority in ordering air strikes against Libya.
"A hard-core group of liberal House Democrats is questioning the constitutionality of U.S. missile strikes against Libya, with one lawmaker raising the prospect of impeachment during a Democratic Caucus conference call on Saturday."
U.S. Rep. Diana DeGette (CO-1) tonight issued the following statement regarding President Barack Obama's decision to begin military action in Libya without securing Congressional authority."I am concerned by President Obama's decision to commit U.S. forces in Libya without involving Congress. This action may require substantial U.S. resources. While there is no question that Gaddafi's regime is brutalizing the people of Libya, launching military action against another nation requires Congress be fully informed so we can exercise our Constitutional authority."
So, people, exactly when is enough - enough? We have a President with no regard toward out of control spending; creating a projected deficit of 22+ Trillion over the next Ten (10) years. We have a President who refuses to enforce Constitutional Laws regarding immigration and is now suing the State of Arizona for taking immigration issues into their own hands. We have a President who has initatiated hostile action against another country WITHOUT Congressional knowledge or approval, in direct violation of the Constitution. The list can go on and on..... Exactly when will everyone wise up and realize Democrat or not, Black or White;Barack Obama is destroying the very fabric of our Constitution..... Or is it really too late and too little...........
Someone say something about race? Ask Michele, she's all about "Taking her country back" from the black people. But I'm sure you'll say she means something else, maybe like a Mau Mau Kenyan from Indonesia that wasn't a Boyscout from Arkansas.
But I think she means black man myself.
When you defend the racist rants from the Republican Patriarchs, you are no better than they are.
The reason Libya is important is because… If Khadafy was allowed to end protests with genocide, than all other uprisings in the region would end. But since the Middle East sees that intervention is an option, leaders in countries like Syria are more likely to take care in how they respond to protestors. Anyone with half a brain can see this. It is only the GOP base who is too stupid or unwilling to acknowledge this.
It's not the "messaging stupid." Its outright politics as always in which the right-wing will demonize President Obama no matter what he does. Those who are unwilling to give credit to the President when credit is due purely because they are putting Party first are despicable.
And conservatives know darn good and well (or at least they should) that everything they criticize President Obama for, from spending to illegal/unecessary war, they never stood up to be counted when Bush/Cheney and Republicans did these very things in even more extreme. Democrats are against war and are questioning the exist strategy, which is the one fair question to ask. The hypocrisy is from the right-wing as always.
Per the poll, most Americans support what the president is doing in Libya. The far-right minority posting their usual conspiracy theories that President Obama doesn't do any work, try comparing the number of vacation days GWB took, and then do the homework on how President Obama has worked tirelessly behind the scenes to ensure the safety of Americans before bombing, to ensure global consensus from the UN and the Arab League, and to ensure hand-off to NATO in this effort.
Just because President Obama is not into empty bravado, such as declaring victory on an air carrier in military garb with a large banner reading “Mission Accomplished” does not mean he only delegates. He is just much more intelligent and competent, and puts the country first before his own ego. You are all just a bunch of douche bags living in a cone of silence--admit it.
As for Bachmann and Cain, of course the leaders of Fear and Hate will be received in a “raucous” manner in keeping with the aggression that goes hand-in-hand with the bigotry, self-serving mentality, and even violence that is far-right.
Thanks, LouisJ-
That is exactly the response I expected.
I feel you, LouisJ.
I really do.
Gee Louis, it sounds like you are the racist now. It couldn''t be race baiting because no one is even looking at your hook. The truth behind racisim is that liberals are the racists... why do you think so many liberal politicians want to enslave the black race through government entitlements and oppression?
On March 1, 2011, the Senate passed by unanimous consent a resolution supporting the very action President Obama achieved through the UN. Any senator who now protests should be asked, where was he/she on Mar 1.
What I want to hear is President Obama's explanations for:
1. "Rebels" being Al Quada Saudi Arabia (AQ, over 40%), Al Quada Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) Algeria (7.2%); and the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG, 18.8%), Al Quada Syria (AQS, 8.1%), Al Quada Yemen (AQY, 8.1%), etc.. AQ being responsible for the planning, organizing, funding, coordinating the 9/11 2001 Attacks. LIFG, being responsible for fighting US Military At Iraq.
2. Where does UN Resolution 1973, state that Offensive Military Actions may be accomplished to support the "Rebels" in attacking other Cities. The Goal was to stop the Fighting, Establish No Fly Zones, Protect the Civilians (not the Combatants of either side), Have both sides Negotiate Peace, and then send in Boots on the Ground as UN Peace Keepers.
3. What US Congressionally passed Law, Do you have President Obama that Justifies the Offensive US Military Actions to Overthrow Gaddifi.
President Clinton and President Bush (43) had US Congressional Law, 1998, H.R. 4655, to justify the Overthrow of the Iraqis President and the Iraqis Government to Liberate the Iraqis People. Short Title: Iraqis Liberation Act. Resulting in US Military 1998 Operation Desert Fox. President Bush (43) had the US Congressional 2002 Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution added to 1998 H.R.4655, to fund the US Military Liberation of Iraq based on the previous information of H.R.4655, Chemical Weapons, Weapons of Mass Destruction used "against his own people" and the Iranians during the Iran Iraq Wars. Without these US Congressionally approved Laws (H.R.4655 is actually recognized as a Declaration of War With Iraq, no time limits of the 1973 War Powers Resolution (48 hours, 60 days, 30 days), just because it is not Titled: Declaration of War With Iraq, does not mean that it is not, since it meets all the criteria of the International Laws, UN Rules and Laws, 1907 Hague Convention, 1949 Geneva Convention for a Declaration of War.
Without these US Congressionally Approved Laws, you are leaving the US Military hanging (appropriations, and legally liable for actions), and the US can be taken to the International Court of Justice at the Hague, forced to pay Reparations to Libya (with what Money?).
Off topic, President Obama, are you going to Fix the US Economy by:
1. Reinstating the Glass Steagall Acts. This would then make Illegal again those Causes of the 1907 Depression, 1929-1939 Great Depression, and the current 60-100 Trillion USD "Global Economic Crisis" consisting of the "Mortgage Crisis", "Wall Street Crisis", "Credit Crisis", "Banking Crisis", "Financial Crisis", etc.. The Glass Steagall Acts were created after years of attempts at Regulation of the Causes even harsher than anything done to date from 1907 to 1933, and after all attempts failed, the Causes were outright made Illegal by the Glass Steagall Acts. The Glass Steagall Acts worked from 1933 to 2000. Use what works (worked). If nothing is done to reinstate the Glass Steagall Acts, the next "Crisis" of 54.6 Trillion USDs of a possible 643 Trillion USDs will put the US into a "Supernova" Depression (my terminology). Seriously if you think Regulation of the Causes will do anything, remember during those times (previous Depressions) some people wanted to take people out and execute the people that Caused the Depressions as Treason.
2. Elimination of the Free Trade Agreements and Amendments that Legalized the "Outsourcing" of US Jobs, US Manufacturing, US Technology. Seriously, without doing this the US Jobs, US Manufacturing, will never come back, as more leave the US; current real US Unemployment is 23% (not just those collecting US Unemployment) and rising to the Great Depression Era US Unemployment of 25%.
3. Authorize by Executive Order a larger scale version of successful President Eisenhower's Operation Wetback to apprehend and deport the over 23 Million Illegal Aliens as a National Security Threat. This would allow you to still employ the US Military to "Secure the US Borders", instead of throwing 27,000 US Military on US Unemployment along with Millions of US Civilians employed by the US Military (your proposed up coming Reduction In Forces of the US Military).
4. Alternative Energy. President Obama since you went to Brazil, March 2011, you saw first hand the real Alternative Energy that provides Electricity by clean burning biomasse biogasse, clean water from steam boilers and steam electric turbines, and fuel for their millions of E-100 "Flex Fuel" vehicles as manufactured by GM, Ford, VW, Toyota, etc.. Will you reinstate the 2009 and subsequent Federal Subsidizes to Hawai'i, Florida, Louisiana to restart and continue to build this proven successful Alternative Energy technology. This would mean that you would have to take back those 2009 and subsequent Federal Subsidizes that you gave to your constituents at Illinois, the Illinois Corn Lobby, and the Illinois Oil Refinery Lobby, that were originally for Sugarcane to Ethanol. Your US Department of Energy has already stated the benefits, practicality and effectiveness of Sugarcane to Ethanol versus the detrimental Corn to Ethanol. Brazil as run by a President with only a fourth grade Education, and making Brazil the 5th Best Economy, got out of the current Depression years before the US, low Unemployment, emphasis on Education (not the broken US Education System). "Are You Smarter than a Fifth Grader" (TV Show).
Will you also reinstate the Federal Subsidizes to develop the safer (less nuclear waste, less nuclear fuel), Generation III Modular Nuclear Power Plants with Nuclear Waste Material Recycling. As to be built next to the (1980s, 20 to 30 year old) Generation I and II current (unsafe with lots of nuclear waste materials produced) US Nuclear Power Plants, and once "on line" then the older Generation I and Generation II Nuclear Power Plants are dismantled with the Nuclear Waste Materials Recycled by the newer Generation III Modular Nuclear Power Plants with Nuclear Waste Materials Recycling. Even if the US does not want this (safer Generation III Modular Nuclear Power Plants), after the Japanese disaster, you can believe everyone would want this to replace their aged (1980s) Nuclear Power.
Until all the aged Natural Gas (NG) Pipelines throughout the US are replaced, and a means that is 100% foolproof to prevent explosions (destruction of whole neighborhoods, and NG Power Plants) and the release of Methane (main component of NG) destroying the Ozone Layer many times that of naturally absorbed (plant photosynthesis) CO2. Natural Gas is not the solution to Alternative Energy, and only the Oil Corporations milking a use for their pumped out Oil Wells.
Coal has also never been an alternative either, especially by poisoning the Ground Drinking Water (arsenides, cyanides, heavy metals). And the millions of tons of poisonous Coal Ash dumped into Lakes, Pond and other storage locations, recent disasters that wiped out entire towns and contaminated those vast areas of land.
Stop pushing the US away from regular light bulbs to mercury filled Compact Florescent Lights (CFLs). The real solution is LED Bulbs (no mercury)(other Nations). Unless you also want mercury (heavy metal poisoning) in the US Ground Drinking Water. Why do you think GE closed down their regular lightbulb plant in the US and opened their CFL Plants in China, you think the EPA would let them manufacturer products with mercury content in the US. With even the US Government Agencies acknowledging that in order to ship a defective bulb to them requires that the defective bulb be sent double plastic bagged as a minimum, and marking outside the box "Mercury Content", USPS then charges more. And do you honestly think everyone prior to throwing that CFL in the trash can are going to seal each one into multiple plastic bags before they throw them into the trash can (probable puncturing of the plastic bags when compacted in garbage trucks). Do you even know how much it costs to decontaminate one 10 foot by 15 foot room from vaporized mercury contamination; that does not include replacing all those things that cannot be decontaminated, painting all the walls, replacing the wall to wall carpet, buying more mercury detection kits to test for any missed mercury, going to the doctors to get tested for mercury content (%) as mercury is cumulative and does not just go away, etc..
How about doing something for those in normally sunny climates to encourage (not rebates, nor tax deductions; but, outright subsidies) Solar Voltaic including battery storage with inverters for individual homes (I do not care where you live it will get cloudy sometime making direct line Solar Voltaic impractical, just like solar panel water heating). I warned one of my friends about the clouds, and he did not listen, he remodelled his house to ten solar voltaic panels without the batteries, and solar water heating. During December 2010 thru February 2011 the Solar Voltaic Panels and Solar Water Heating at Hawai'i were not effective (paying HECO). In March of 2011, he had the battery storage with inverters and voltage regulation added, like I previously advised him to do. You also have to solve electric power generation before pushing people to buy electric cars (electricity to charge batteries).
5. To help lower the numbers of suicides, murders, domestic violence, etc. of the US Military, how about, adding to the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act, what I call the Gold Digger Law, in that it would be Federal Law that cannot be ignored by any US Court for spouses (male or female) to while the Servicemember is deployed to empty the Servicemembers House, Sell the House, Empty the Bank Account(s), Max out the Credit Cards, etc. and leave the Servicemember with only the Uniform on their backs and in deep debt (which is used against the US Military Servicemember as "Conduct Unbecoming of an Officer, NCO, Enlisted" per UCMJ, requiring that Servicemember without any assistance to solve the debt problem created by their spouse.). And the worse part about this is afterwards the US Courts, States, City, County, Judges automatically awarding the spouse everything, this too would be made Illegal. This has been going on for Centuries, as to why it is very easy to obtain examples (Court Cases), I honestly do believe that this is now the 21st Century, 2011, and that something must be done to Protect those that are Protecting us, Protecting the US Interests and Protecting the United States of America.
Mr. President Obama, I gave you the known problems and the researched solutions (researched since the 1990s till now). It is up to you to implement the solutions, and not play the political blame games by blaming what was done before all the way back to the stone ages. By not doing anything or only half heartily doing these solutions will result in the majority of the US having to survive on Great Depression Era Dog Food Stew, and I strongly believe based on what my parents lived thru as children, that not a single US Citizen would want to go thru that. Just remember what you learned while growning up at cultural melting pot, Hawai'i, a man is determined by his actions not words (a show put on for the public, the word pronounced as shee by).
Jody, Iowa,
If the Senate Resolution does not specifically state the "Overthrow of the Libyan President", like 1998 H.R. 4655 did with "Overthrow the Iraq President", then see paragraph 3. of post #2.33, above. And FYI, procedure (Law, as part of the checks and balances) is that the House initiates Laws (H.R.s), followed by the Senate (S.), and finally Presidential Approval or Disapproval. The Senate can, write a Law and send it to the House, if the House does not approve by majority vote, the Senate Law, is not Law; if the Senate continues to push their proposed Law, the House can stop this by not appropriating Funding.
Jody, Iowa-
You, me, Jody...
Arm in arm.
LouisJ,
Art. VI. This Constitution, AND the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme LAW of the Land;
You liberals who are pro Obama do realize the 'rebels' we are helping are the same people who were killing our service men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan... right?
And if you know that and are still making a case for this, then you are supporting terrorists, you know that right?
It says a lot about your party and your morals.....
You realize that even Conservatives don't agree on that, don't you? It says a lot about your party and your morals that you're attacking from multiple, contradictory positions.
In fact more than one Conservative Republican leader wants to have it both ways and have changed their position multiple times. They are shameless and should be treated as such.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/nightlinedailyline/2011/03/newt-gingrich-flip-flop-on-libya-no-fly-zone-which-gingrich-do-you-agree-with.html
So enough of your lectures and phony outrage.
This is a civil war. No outside influence of power attacking Libya like Sadam committed when he attacked Quatar. Nope, we should stay out of it all together. I know, we don't want the region to become more unstable. I've got news for you, it's been unstable for much longer then America is old! Conflict IS the Middle East's middle name and America can't stop it.
I really find it fasinating to find so many liberals supporting war, or any part of it, with the decades of peace rallies under their belts. Being an Independent, I can care less about what the Republicans or Democrats have to say. But I do care what our President says and does being our leader. To run on a platform that would end the Gulf war and close Gitmo then to only not follow through was pathetic. To make things even worse, Obama gets America involved in yet another conflict. I am beginning to understand why it is so easy to hate America when you put yourself in the shoes of an average protester witnessing all of the dictators like Khaddafy and Mubarak America recently supported.
Another phony justification. Saddam was contained for 10 years by a no fly zone and economic sanctions and getting weaker before GW Bush decided to go in and "finish" the war that his Dad was smart enough to know when to quit. And if you've been paying ANY attention whatsoever you know that the Gulf War has wound down to a fraction of what it was as we withdraw and closing Gitmo was nixed by Republican filibuster. Yet here you are trying to pin that on President Obama. Republicans were so determined to keep Gitmo open--why are they trying to avoid responsibility now?
John B, Des Moines, IA
Another phony justification? Justification of what? I simply posted my opinion which is against war unlike you. As far as Obama goes, he made promises he couldn't keep for no other reason than to get elected as every President before him did. I was really hoping for the mold to be broken and real change to take place through exceptional leadership, but it has yet to happen.
Sure, blame the Republicans for why Gitmo wasn't closed. The Democrats had a super majority at one point and did NOTHING regarding Gitmo. So yes, I do pin this on Obama AND the Democrats for not getting it done. Democrats blaming Republicans, Republicans blaming Democrats while the American people are getting screwed.
Again, I am stunned to see liberals supporting acts of war committed by our Government. I thought I would never see that in my life time. But hey, I'm sure they ALL have a good reason for the flip-flop and I'm sure it has nothing to do with Obama being President. -sarcasm-
Supermajority? Yet another phony Conservative meme. You know full well that supermajority depended on 2 Independents. One of them was Joe Lieberman, already rejected by his own party and he endorsed John McCain for President. The votes were NEVER there to override a Republican filibuster on closing Guantanamo Bay.
So I ask again...why are Conservative anxious to avoid responsibility for one of their major points of difference with the President. Sure looks like they want to avoid blame for being on the wrong side of the issue.
David, write a letter to you Congressman and Senators with your ideas.
John B, Des Moines, IA
Sure, the Democrats can pass a HCR bill without a single Republican vote but can't close Gitmo.
If you asked again, you would have asked "Republicans were so determined to keep Gitmo open--why are they trying to avoid responsibility now?" but you didn't. You're asking conservatives now. So, being a conservative Independent, you are asking me why the Republicans are avoiding responsibility regarding Gitmo? I have no idea, ask a Republican! Geeesh.
Yet you defend the republicans, and put obama in a bad light? Liberals supported bush after 9-11, but are mad after the fact for being lied to. So what they flip-floped-flipped? Your just as bad as your ignorant repub buddies but try to put yourself under a different label, then blanket the entire democratic party as liberals? Way to try to distance yourself from republicans, yet act on their behave all in the same breath.
SmallTownPete
So, you only recognize Democrats or Republicans. This is why the Independent voter block determines the Presidential election outcome every time. Several points of order here. First, I didn't "defend" the Republicans, nor did I defend the Democrats. Second, I didn't "blanket the entire democratic party as liberals". Third, I did not "act on the Republican's behave".
Frankly, your whole post is an exaggeration. I wouldnt' expect anything less from your kind.
This isnt putting Obama in a bad light? He is stepping down the presence in the Gulf War, what should he have done pulled out all troops from Iraq? Do you think that would have been the smart thing to do after all we went through? I believe he followed through on his promise in the gulf and to focus on afgahn. Then to gitmo, how many states agreed to have the terrorist prisoners relocted to their state? Anyone? anyone? Nope, so everyone fought against shutting down gitmo, and this is Obamas fault? I think I would place the blame more on Dems and Repubs in the senate. But he did end the war crimes going on there, did he not?
Like I said previously but you ignored it saying my whole post was an exaggeration, Werent the liberals(aka dems) behind bush after 9-11? Is it true that most didnt oppose what he was doing until they found out that he allegedly falsified information to start the Gulf War. Thats what I remember. So where does the flip-flop come in? Considering that the liberals are in support of a no-fly zone and stopping the killing of civilians that you call acts of war. Did I miss the invasion? Talk about exaggeration
Finally when you said "im sure they ALL have a good reason" were you talking about liberals? Or was this the blanket statement I was talking about because you really mean democrats?
SmallTownPete
Obama put himself in "a bad light". Not me.
I'll make it easy for you. I will list two claims made by you. All you have to do is copy and paste my comments that support your claims. Easy right?
Your not on here putting Obama in a bad light? Thats all I see from your posts. Then you ignore everything I say even though I answered your questions that you seem to be asking again. Maybe I didnt make it simple enough for you.
1a. Your defending republicans by saying its all the presidents and democrats fault for gitmo, when you know very well that not a single republican was willing to help them close it down and move the prisoners state-side. But they did stop the war crimes going on there did they not? So now that there arent war crimes going on, whats the problem with gitmo? How many times do I have to ask you a question before you answer it?
1b. "Considering that the liberals are in support of a no-fly zone and stopping the killing of civilians that you call acts of war. Did I miss the invasion?" You exaggerate what is going on in libya to try to put Obama in a bad light AGAIN, hence re-stating what your republicans buddies are trying to get people to believe when its not true. If this isnt defending/supporting the republican party what is?
2. Again I already answered this by showing you that you call all Obama supporters liberals.
Did I make it simple enough for you? I stated this in comment #2.47 and restated it again just for you so try to keep up.
LOL, and now the Obama administration flipped to quickly solve his Gitmo problem. He chose to use a Military Tribunal instread of Federal Court to bring the terrorists to justice! That's a total flip from his position less then a year ago. Oh, my bad, I'm putting Obama in bad light again!
I bet the left are steaming right now!
WHAT ?
another PROGRESSIVE "Sell Out ?"
After 6 decades , you would think the "Elites" would figure it out !
Ya because your blaming it all on Obama. Why did he have to resort to using a military tribunal? Did you even take to time figure that out or are you more focused on trying to put Obama in a bad light? I think your post tells it all. You dont even care that your republican buddies are the whole reason for this mess. How long were these men in custody and nothing happend? Bush sure didnt seem to mind that they were gonna be left for someone else to deal with, but hey you dont care either. For you its just another reason to pawn off the responsiblities of your man to the guy you so evidently hate.
And again you dont answer any of my questions, just another rant about how you hate Obama, should have figured as much from you.
We can intervene in Libya's affairs, but can't get a budget passed that should have been passed LAST YEAR! Some leadership.
And doesn't this just sum up the media ... and politics today ... form over substance. Never mind that the president went quietly about his business handling a crisis.
What's REALLY important is that our feelings got hurt. Sheesh.
Anna Molly:
Our President is always several steps ahead of the GOP/TP. I find nothing wrong with a President that weighs all his options. I rather wait a few days and get the right info and plan than go back to what we had in the previous administration.
Not only is he several steps ahead of the GOP/TP Navy, he's also way ahead of the media. The media is so consumed about being first to report a story they forget to get all the facts first, and look like fools when all the facts come out, they don't think we the people notice it but we do, it's just the wing-nuts that don't notice.
President Obama has certainly done a better job handling this crisis than the job done by the Nobel Committee that awarded the Peace Prize to a President occupying the Oval Office office for less than one year.
Evidently, President Obama's perception of his responsibilities as Commander-In-Chief of the U.S. armed forces clashes a bit with the expectations of a group of naive utopians in Oslo, Norway.
Thank heavens for that, if nothing else.
MO:
Thank you for the comment. In spite of the most toxic political environment we have seen in a long time, in spite of having an party oppose visually every piece of legislation our President proposes that creates jobs, stimulates the economy and improves our educational system, in spite of a party that says they will not compromise with our President Period, in fact they will go out of their way to make him fail. In spite of all that from the party of NO NO NO NO he saves our country from bankruptcy, the economy is improving, we are creating new private sector jobs, etc etc. The GOP/TP cannot stand the fact that in face of all the "Obstructionism" from the right he has still done more in 2 years than dumbo did in 8.
Hmmmm...
Seems that obama is quite the character, wise beyond the means of the media, fellow politicians and the voting public. So wise that many many FR libs fail to understand what leadership is about.
One leads by example (as in OK boys and girls no one leaves before we establish our objectives), one leads by inspiring the populace before actions are taken, not after. One leads by following thru on the plan and maintaining focus on the task at hand to completion, not flitting from one issue to the next.
In manufacturing engineering we had a saying that...
My supervisor was never afraid to redirect our focus on the end objective. To bad obama and company haven't done so.
How about this, Anna Molly, research the President Obama, January 21, 2009, Patriot Acts (plural) that legalized all those activities considered as Illegal under President Bush's (43) Patriot Act (singular). Your research will verify the below:
Legalized under the President Obama January 21, 2009, Patriot Act was also the electronic monitoring and censorship of all US Communications. Material Support to Terrorists (the Terrorists Organizations listed by the US Department of State, why I listed those currently being supported by the US at Libya as "Rebels", that are on the US Department of State "Terrorist Organizations" Lists, as this is Illegal according to the 2010 US Supreme Court Ruling that supports the Material Support to Terrorists section of President Obama's January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts.).
The History of the President Obama, January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts includes the Congressional Support for the Democratic Party sponsored (House) H.R.1955 and (Democrats at Senate) S.1959, that were defeated as NOT Constitutional (Unconstitutional). Various portions were then pulled out of H.R.1955 and S.1959 and included in President Obama's January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts (meaning the majority of H.R.1955 and S.1959 became Law regardless of being Unconstitutional.). Specifically, the electronic monitoring and censorship of all US Communications, the definition of Homegrown Domestic Terrorist that was part of H.R.1955 and S.1959 (also known as the George Orwell, "1984", "Thought Crimes Laws") as "Anyone stating a Radical Change to (US) Government is a Homegrown Domestic Terrorist". In that the written or verbal statement is the crime, regardless of the actions.
H.R.1955, sponsor: Rep. Jane Harman, Democrat, CA,
Co Sponors: Donna Christensen [Democrat,VI], Christopher Carney [Democrat, PA], Yvette Clarke [Democrat, NY], Charles Dent [R, Democratic State PA], Norman Dicks [Democrat,WA], Al Green [Democrat, TX], James Langevin [Democrat, RI], Zoe Lofgren [Democrat,CA], Nita Lowey [Democrat, NY], Daniel Lungren [R, Democratic State CA], Ed Perlmutter [Democrat, CO], Ted Poe [R, TX].
The support for H.R.1955 was also from Nancy Pelosi, "All those returning from the Wars are possible Homegrown Domestic Terrorists" (Guilty until proven innocent). This became a verbal instruction to the Department of Homeland Security.
S.1959, Sponor: Sen. Susan Collins [R-ME]
Co Sponsor: Norm Coleman [R-MN].
This is how the Senate Repugnants killed H.R.1955 and S.1959. As stopped at the Senate: As findings not reported by Senate Committee, not voted on by Senate Committee, and not returned to House for House Vote, and then no Presidential Approval.
If H.R.1955 or S.1959 passed in their entirity, if you said anything against President Bush (43) you would automatically have been a "Homegrown Domestic Terrorist" and subject to all the measures taken against known Homegrown Domestic Terrorists (freezing of all financial assets, apprehensions interrogations and indefinite detentions, black listed as No Fly and no travel, etc. this would also apply to all your family, relatives, in laws, friends, etc. as possible co conspirators to being also Homegrown Domestic Terrorists). So you are luckly the Repugnants at the Senate killed both H.R.1955 and S.1959 as the House was controlled by the Democratic Party. And unfortunate that many of the provisions of H.R.1955 and S.1959 were later included in President Obama's January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts.
Ardent Bush Basher Naomi Wolf warned all of you about this, 2007, and she was absolutely correct, just the wrong President:
The End of America: Letter of Warning To A Young Patriot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc
There's an old joke, a variation of which goes, 'Why do dogs lick themselves? Because they can."
A government shutdown is a near certainty because the newly elected Republicans won't believe their own power until they exercise its destructive capability.
However, once they do shut down the government ('lick themselves'), they will prove to be ill-prepared to deal with the negative fallout that will fall squarely and solely on them.
Fancy:
Very astute observation. I am afraid that this will come to pass and the penalty is going to be more severe than we have ever seen before.
"The speaker knows that when it comes to avoiding a shutdown, his problem is with the tea party, not Democrats,"
So says Senator Chuck Schumer about the latest impasse on budget cutting. And as usual for this guy, he's spewing partisan crap. The fact of the matter is the only folks in town who are serious about cutting the federal budget are Republicans. Democrats by contrast have been offering up nickels and dimes. But these tokens have little impact on the problem and are just PR eye candy intended to create the illusion of a "reasonable" approach to this issue in contrast to the "extreme" approach favored by Republicans.
BALONEY!
In his two years in office the president has increased domestic discretionary spending by over 20 percent. So when the Dems cry crocodile tears that Republican cuts are too deep they completely ignore the fact that the budget baseline these cuts start with has been inflated dramatically. What an absolute joke.
The only real leadership on this issue is coming from the Republican side, especially the Tea Party contingent. And the Tea Partiers in particular understand that "compromise" is actually a victory for the Dems since it would lock in domestic spending at a higher rate than 2008 levels. And that is completely unacceptable to anyone who is serious about addressing our fiscal issues.
Heck, even the latest CBO analysis of the president's FY12 budget puts the lie to any notion that he and his Democratic buds are serious about controlling the federal budget. Over the next 10 years CBO projects that under Obama's policies the national debt will rise to almost $21 trillion. Even more, since 1970 the average level of federal spending as a percentage of GDP has been about 21%, but today that number is 23.5% and it stays that way as far as the eye can see in the Obama plan. Oh, and did I mention that CBO has also increased the 10-year cost estimate for Obamcare to $1.45 trillion?
Obama says his budget proposal helps us to "live within our means" and will help us "pay down the debt." So tell us Mr President, which century did you have in mind for paying down that debt? If Republicans have anything to say about this (and they will) the answer will not only be this century but it will start immediately.
Jack Conway shouldn't have jumped ship in KY, he could actually win the next time around.
If Republicans really were serious about the budget, they wouldn't have held their breath until they turned blue in the face unless their rich buddies continued to get their tax breaks. Now that their rich buddies are taken care of, everyone else can go to hell as far as they're concerned.
And that doesn't even get into the issue of defense spending, which is the largest percentage of discretionary spending around. To even suggest trimming obsolete programs is akin to saying that you want the Constitution shredded and replaced with Sharia law.
Michael L:
Right on. It is all about Wall Street, Big Business and the Millionaires/Billionaires. The He!! with everybody else that does not belong to that club. It would not surprise me if they wanted 2 separate ID'S in this country. One that says you have all the rights the other says you have none. And by the way, the ID that has all the right gets to vote, have health care, all the educational opportunities etc. Good Plan Huh - That is where they are going. Total control of this country by the few who have all the power and wealth.
One man's 'discretionary' spending is another man's certain depression,...
OR in Bill's case, he'll take the DEPRESSION any day of the weeka nd twice on Sundays!
I agree Navy, but the day that happens will be the day they reget the road they traveled. Class warfare wont be far behind, and I dont mean economically. Once you take everything a man has, all he has left is revenge. I dont believe things will ever get that bad, but if they do the rich better run.
Navy,
And the beauty of this country is that everyone has the opportunity to join that club. All it takes is hard work. Some think they deserve an "honorary membership" because they exist and breathe.
Oh my...
Are all of you going to be disappointed when President Obama finally gets serious and acts to prevent a U.S. sovereign debt crisis.
Of course, when he does get on it...you'll all be on board.
If all of us REALLY look at the situaiton in the House concerning the budget, we can see the following:
1. The House as NO INTENTION of providing a budget for this year or next year. How can I say that? The HOUSE has spent the majority of its time going after 'reproductive rights', child labour, voting rights - everything EXCEPT generating a budget. Now thay want to blame President Obama for their inability to produce budget legislation. And YES, the President WILL sign the Contuing Resolutions to keep the Government afloat until 2012.
2. The budget 'can' will be kicked down the road because it is politically expedient to do so. The GOPers and the Tea Partyers believe that they will have a better chance of recapturing the White House if the economy is bad and debt is high. This way, then can blame President Obama for the woes of the country and continue to espouse that the President 'spends too much'.
3. We see a 'laser sharp focus' on entitlements and social issues. By going after 'entitlements', the GOP believe that they will be able to produce 'deficit reduction'. Unfortunately for the populace that votes these THESE PARTICULAR GOPers, they have NO IDEA that by NOT investing in America (and what we need infrastructure wise), we are hastening the destruction of America economically by STARVING it to death. Without Job creation (and we have not seen any indicaiton or legislation that promotes job creation), government revenues will continue to decline.
4. There is No effort given to raising Corporate revenues. In many of the cases we are seeing on a Federal and State level, many milti-national Corporations pay little or NO taxes at all. We also see the government continue to pay subsidies for ethanol and for energy (Big Oil). We do not see any attempt by the House or Tea PArtyers to go after this sort of waste and abuse.
5. The GOPers and the Tea Partyers are IGNORING the 'low hanging fruit' of eliminating the redundancies of Government. THis is by far the EASIEST thing that the GOPers and the Tea Partyers can do to reduce the deficit. They could save $100 BILLION - and get it - by doing a review of redundant agencies. The funny thing is that President Obama would go along with the GOPers and Tea Partyers and EVERYONE would be able to claim that they have 'reduced the deficit'. Funny that we have not seen this yet. I find it interesting that the GOPers and Tea Partyers are so intent to cut the 12% of the budget that everyone uses to the bone and ignore everything else.
SO, as I have described above, NO, I am not thinking that the GOPers and Tea Partyers in the House will do ANYTHING this year except make a lot of noise.
And YET we STILL pay them to do nothing.
Wake up, America - you are being had.
Hate to rain on your parade but the House passed a budget for 2011 and Dirty Harry & the Dems won't vote on it. Thanks for playing the liberal game - lie, cheat and deceive when you don't like reality.
Kind of lays their whole program out there for everyone to see, doesn't it Pietro?
liberals and many democrats and republicans alike are showing us all on how to effectively kick the can down the street to the next election and beyond
Discretionary spending cuts are the easiest to make by the very nature that they are discretionary. YOU KNOW, OPTIONAL, not mandated. Will people lose jobs? of course! Will our countries GDP be affected? Of course. the same argument can be made for when cuts are made in military expenditures, welfare, medicaid and medicare you know the tough stuff. Fortunately, SS is still showing a surplus, albeit in treasury IOU's.
As the republicans fight for moderate cuts, the teabaggers fight for big cuts and the obama and liberal democrats fight for little cuts. Time is mispent on what should have been "no brainer" cuts so that the legislative action could be made swiftly and then moved onto the harder issues at hand.
No cut should be viewed as inconsequential or symbolic.
Effectively, the politicians stall and argue knowing full well that the larger issue cuts will take up even more time. The can is kicked down the road on the simple and easy stuff so that time runs out on the more time consuming legislation on the tough stuff, causing the can to be further kicked down the road
all while the dumbass libs and tea partiers argue at the extremes, while dumb ass FR libs dribble on on how to get America back rolling.
How many of you realize that obamas proposed budget for 2012 contains a plan for $1.1 trillion in cuts for discretionary spending of which 2/3 is in direct cuts and 1/3 in increased taxes? The republicans want $61 billion in FY 2011 cuts and obama wants $73 billion in discretionary cuts.
Last time I checked 73 was greater than 61. and obama and company are saying $61 billion in cuts are too much, it will hurt our economy.
What BS, FR libs and others are saying the economy is improving, some FED officials think that QE2 may wind down early,the FED may start increasing its borrowing rates soon and bernanke doesn't see how $61 billion in cuts will have a disastrous effect on the economy. Really, $61 billion is JUST 4 TENTHS of a PERCENT of our 2010 economy. 4 TENTHS of a PERCENT!!! But yet, obama is looking at $73 billion in cuts
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2011/0214/1224289738433.html?digest=1&sms_ss=twitter&at_xt=4d5887373d3810b6,0
http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/obama-plans-trillion-dollar-trim-4025541?ref=rss
http://schuylerthorpe.wordpress.com/2011/02/21/obama-sends-congress-3-7-trillion-dollar-budget/
http://cedartownstd.com/view/full_story/11387354/article-Obama-unveils--3-73-trillion-dollar-budget-for-2012?instance=home_news_1st_left
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/6124-president-obamas-weak-budget-cuts
http://dailycaller.com/2011/02/13/boehner-urges-obama-to-back-immediate-budget-cuts/
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/15/us/politics/15obama.html?_r=1
　
From a blog...
LOL, all joking aside. Cut spending to sustainable levels before you ask me for more money. Because quite frankly, you're not spending it responsibly
by john on http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110214094107AAkQAMu
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/business/2011-02/14/c_13731928.htm
pietro - how foolish of you to not include the libs and democrats as not also playing the same role that you blame the GOP and teabaggers as carrying on. That is the epitomy of how to kick the can down the road and still blame someone else for it. I know you know better.
To all others...
A sidebar on dificits and debt is that the economy will surely continue to grow and revenues will surely increase. Cuts made today and tommorow may be reinstated later if they are proven worthy.
Regardless, what do you prefer, spending billions on interest payments to service our debt or to have funds available for worthy causes?
We can't balance the budget overnight or even in 5 years, but it can be done.
US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired, SmallTownPete, Pietro, Columbus, Ohio, Michael L-2295838,
Your arguements are shot down the toilet, as you do not even know who "Mr.Corporate America" is.
Pietro, Columbus, Ohio, and John B, Des Moines, IA, keep up with the current situation, especially your paragraph #4. How about we Tax your arse 35%. So much for your "Democratic Ideal" of equality for all (ever heard the term hypocrite). The Corporations TOLD you why they are leaving the US and all you want to do is FORCE them out of the US, the same sh!t the American Colonists fled Europe for, is the same sh!t that you want now.:
A look at the world's new corporate tax havens (4 pages, especially read the last page)
Lesley Stahl explains how U.S. corporations are cutting their tax bills by moving business overseas
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/25/60minutes/main20046867.shtml
Pietro, Columbus, Ohio, you can keep stating the small problems and b!tch about them, and not come up with any solutions. What does that do, nothing. I told you the bigger problems and the researched proven previous solutions to the bigger problems (hundreds of Trillions USDs) of the US at post#2.33.
Thoughts on Libya, Congress and the Media. Prior to any military strikes, President Obama addressed what was happening in Libya, why it was important for the UN and the US to take action, he spoke of the UN Resolution and the goals. He clearly stated the intent, what our involvement would be and what it would not be.
Libya. The U.S. did not declare war on Libya. This is a multi-lateral humanitarian mission, enacted by the UN, which prevented the slaughter of thousands of Libyans, one that required military fire power to establish and enforce a No-Fly Zone, drive back and contain Gadhafi's Army. Richard Engel reported that if this intervention had been delayed even twelve hours, it would have been too late.
Congress. On March 1, 2011, the U.S. Senate passed, by unanimous consent, S.RES.85, a resolution strongly condemning the gross and systematic violations of human rights in Libya, including violent attacks on protesters demanding democratic reforms, and one that called for, among other things, a No-Fly Zone in Libya. For any legislation or resolution to pass by unanimous consent, it means that not one legislator requested a Roll Call Vote or demanded debate, and that top leadership on both sides agreed. Yet by last week, legislators, Dick Lugar and Jim Webb to name two, were upset and angry that the President had succeeded in getting the UN to do exactly what their own resolution had wanted. For them to claim they knew too little and question the President's authority to do so was disingenuous; it was they who had urged and concurred with what the President did via their own S.RES.85.
Prior to leaving on his South American trip and prior to a single shot being fired, President Obama briefed 18 members of Congress regarding the UN Resolution to intervene in Libya, the US role in the humanitarian effort. Those 18 members of Congress could have asked questions, could have expressed doubt, they could have done a lot of things but they did nothing.
Those 18 members of Congress apparently did not think it important enough to convene their respective legislative bodies to brief, discuss and debate the action. Information about the U.S. diplomatic efforts with the UN, Arab League were reported by journalists, discussed in the media; SoS Clinton gave several addresses discussing the situation as did the President. Where was Congress, didn't they bother to listen? Last week Congressional legislators, left and right, behaved as bratty children blaming President Obama instead of blaming the 18 members who were briefed prior to the first shots being fired. They stomped their feet, pouted, and hit the TV airways expressing outrage.
While I support dissent, support a vigorous debate and discussion, it seems Congress no longer has the courtesy to look in their own Glass House first for the lack of debate and discussion before blaming the President. The blame belonged with the 18 legislators who were briefed but did not bother to inform the rest of Congress. But most disgusting is that these legislators waited until President Obama was out of the country to begin their systematic finger pointing in front of the TV cameras, displaying childish behavior and a complete lack of courtesy and respect for the tradition: when any president is out of the country, politics ends at the water's edge.
Media. While many journalists provide excellent reporting, the hyper-ventilating of cable TV last week reached a new low. Despite the fact that it was no secret that the Obama administration was negotiating with the UN to pass UN Resolution 1973, despite the fact that the U.S. Senate had passed on March 1 via unanimous consent a resolution calling for the same action that the UN Resolution invoked--not one host, analyst, pundit, or interviewer asked those tantrum-throwing legislators two simple questions: 1) why weren't they blaming the 18 briefed legislators who did nothing to inform the others? and 2) why did they support S.RES.85 via unanimous consent without one voice of dissent?
Throughout last week and the weeks prior to it, we heard Secretary of State Clinton, President Obama and other administration officials speaking about Libya; the President addressed the actions in Libya several times while he was in South America. Tonight, President Obama will speak again--perhaps this time, Congress and the media will listen to what he says.
Jody, they knew exactly what the objective was. Anytime they have the opportunity to attack the president, they will take it.
The media use it to generate the revenue, the Congress use it to save their own necks next election cycle. They realize that the Right do not think in a complex way and take whatever is said at face value, that the president is wrong.
Truly a shame.
I know, Louis. It is sad to watch, and frustrating to watch the media too often participate in the circus instead of doing their jobs as journalists to point out the legislator stunts as stunts.
.............................................................Democracy ..............................................................
...........The Absence of Hereditary or Arbitrary CLASS Distictions or PRIVILEDGES ! .....................
FOX was Trying to Rile up the GOP Foot Soldiers Just now!
Pure ....Speculation.... That Obama is Sending Ground Troops to Libya ???? ( FOX Guessing & Riling up ) for FEAR & SMEAR! They said ( They Do NOT have a Copy of his speech ) Sure Spinning GARBAGE from NOTHING !
Attack, Fear, Smear! Michele Beckmann -Palin Say Anything or LIE and ( T.V. is In Thier Face ) For What?
The ( Lame Stream Media ) Palin Hates ( Unless it is to ATTACK OBAMA or SELL BOOKS ) !
6 Major Media's in USA == CONGLOMERATES == SOME ( TAX HEAVEN )
G.E. Took In ( $ 3.2 BILLION ) a TAX ( BENEFIT ) GOP Term for ELITE ( WELFARE ) for SPOILED RICH !
RICH that ARE the MAJOR DEBT Problem!
They Get Tax Cuts & Breaks !! While a GOP Scorched Earth Policy Budget Cuts on Most Everybody ELSE!
No New Taxes ?? LIE== GOP == ( Trickle Down Property Tax INCREASES ) State & Federal ( Boehner )!
No New Taxes or ( No Taxes at ALL ) is for ( Corporations & Elite ) Not ANYBODY on Here.............
GOP have Trickled Taxes Down for Decades ( Tea- Baggers want it NOW ) OLD GOP! They Take it Slowly!
Property Tax Increasessssss Will Be HUGE if GOP Sheep Don't GET That ( RICH & Corporations )
The GOP ( No New Taxes ) Free Riders ! PAY YOUR SHARE ALREADY !
The PEOPLE are TAXED ENOUGH & TAPPED OUT !
Corporate Tax Rate is 1% of GDP ( HISTORIC LOWS )
SEE ( They Have It !) There is nO WAY Budget CUTS will NEVER Eliminate DEBT Without RICH !
RICH Got Tax Cuts on DEBT & DEFICITS!,. While The Rest Paid the Interest on The TAX CUTS !
Old GOP:
It took you until the last sentence to get it right, but the libs and Dems are the ones that want to tax everyone to death, including the middle class...that means you and me.
Seems journalist opinions have taken over for what once was considered investigative reporting. It's a shame that we have to sift through the crap to get the real story. And it's a problem for both sides of the political spectrum! Thank God some of us have a mind of our own and realize that there is some critical thinking required to really understand what is going on in our world.
The Democrats are so scandalized by Soros and his fraud that they had to come up with a name that is connected with the Tea Party. The only difference is that Soros is a Commie and is wanted in several countries for fraud and destroying the currency of their financial system. Poor Dems, can't get away from the American Communist Party.
Suggestion for the dictionary: JuvenBachan = Crazy Idiot.
Facts? Citations? You don't know what the hell you're talking about!
Juvenile.
FR's Baghdad Bob resurfaces. Tell us more Birther stories Juven, we like those.
Too bad JVEE cannot face the truth. What about the Citizens United case, the Koch Brothers, Karl Roves Group(s) and the USCOC for starters. The spend more money on lobbing against the American People than anybody on the planet and own more politicians than any other group.
Like anything on this blog is truth. Everything is so distorted. And most of us need to work a job and don't have time to read the lengthy BS. Like I'm going to put someone's word over another because they're retired from anything.
Doubtful. It sounds like the only voices you listen to are in your own head. No one can teach you anything, right? Because you already know it all.
So why are you here?
Tonight our President is going to thoroughly and clearly explain our current situation , and set more goals to move forward. The "Gross Odd People" (GOP) must be on the best behavior. Please do not yell while the President is talking. Pay attention while the President is talking. Do not text your friends while the President is talking. The "Gross Odd People" (GOP), and the "Really Not Competent"(RNC) have no respect for our President, but they want full respect back. Please stop going on about the President not being an American Ciizen. The "Bonehead Birthers" just look and sound completely nuts. Again! "Lunatic Limbaugh" the "Moron with a Mic" needs to listen more, and "spew" less. The "Political Punks" of the GOP need to think before they speak. I wonder if this is possible?? Political "Fire Starters" like "Nutty Newt," "Barbarian Barbour," and "Bitchy Bachmann" need to think much more than what they are capable of. They need to watch and learn how a real President conducts the business of running a country. President Obama thinks clearly, knows his facts, understands the role of America in the world, and is Presidential at all times. Remember GOP to behave tonight in front of the most powerful individual in the world. What part of this do you not understand GOP?? Keep doing your job Mr. President, and remember that we put you in the White House to do a very tough job.
Yes the job is tough Progressive...but your president is not getting the job done. The "Obamanation" is probably the most unprepared and incompetent president in the history of the U.S.
Wally,
Of course you feel this way, most people living in dumb FUX NEWS nation do...
Last week here on FR we spent a considerable amount of time debating the wisdom of changing ID requirements for voting. Conservatives were very sincere in their statements that preventing voter fraud was essential and the only factor involved in the proposed ID requirements changes.
To that end I offer a nationally recognized system, developed in Iowa, known as “Precinct Atlas.” This laptop-based system coordinates voter rolls statewide, ensuring that last minute address changes don’t result in over-voting, and walking poll volunteers through the process to make sure all the ‘I’s are dotted and ‘t’s crossed.
http://www.globegazette.com/news/local/article_7d2ef634-abe7-11df-a1e6-001cc4c03286.html
Now “Precinct Atlas” has been targeted for elimination by Iowa Secretary of State Matt Schultz. Just for the record Schultz is pushing a plan for an increased level of ID requirement at polling places which are being resisted by all 99 county Auditors because of the negative effect they’ll have on turnout, but killing enhanced processes at the polling places themselves. Any additional questions about the real motives of Conservatives on this matter are moot.
John B:
Great post. I should have tagged mine to yours, seems we are on the same page to start the week. Today will be my only post since I will be on vacation for a week.
Hold down the fort
This vine is not about Obama's voter fraud issues. Stay on topic.
"This laptop-based system coordinates voter rolls statewide, ensuring that last minute address changes don’t result in over-voting,"
Does the laptop have any way of knowing who it is that is actually voting? Without an ID requirement , who can tell who is voting? The laptop does not prevent 'over-voting', it just spits out statistics afterwards.
Over-voting? The statistics will tell nothing, other than the same pattern of vote fraud from the last election happened again.
Great post, John B. The Precinct Atlas works great. The voter fills out a simple form with name and address given by one precinct worker. The next worker takes that paper and matches it to the name and address in the Precinct Atlas, verifiying the person and noting in the book that person is voting. The next worker gives you the ballot, explains how to vote and you're in the booth. Another worker watches as you put your ballot into the voted machine and assists as needed. It is very efficient.
I didn't realize you are the self-anointed moderator?
My bad!
And yet there are NO RECORDED INSTANCES of people complaining that they tried to vote but weren't allowed to do so because someone else already voted under their identity. Conservatives continue demagoguing about problems that don't exist as a smokescreen for their program to control WHO votes.
That may be true John B, but I can name 187 instances of people who tried to vote but didn't get to (we call them soldiers that were deployed to Iraq at the time) Their ballots mysteriously didn't make it, and that was only ONE unit.
John B:
Very true, this is just a scam being cloaked under "voter fraud". The GOP/TP likes to hide their agenda by wrapping themselves in popular rhetoric like "National Security", "Voter Fraud", "Free Speech" etc only to find out that they are dead set against each and every one of those ideas. All anybody has to do is look at what the GOP/TP legislation is all about, look at what they are proposing, match their deeds to their rhetoric and connect the dots people. The GOP/TP is all about taking rights away, they support religious intolerance, they support making a segment of the population into second class citizens etc. Simply put they support racism, religious intolerance, sexism, supression of voting rights, education, science, medical research, protection laws (regulations) and a bevy of other things, most guaranteed by our constitution. It almost appears to be that if it is guaranteed by our Constitution then they want to change it, as in take it away from you.
And just tell me what is wrong with ID to vote? If you have it you vote. If you don't get it. If a cop stops you on the highway you'd better have a driver license and proof of insurance. Voters need to be citizens and not just someone visiting or here without some sort of documentation. It is not control over who votes. What the heck are you afraid of if ID becomes the standard? I just don't get it.
Every place I know of in the US you have to have some type of ID to register to vote. What would be wrong with having the same type of ID present to vote?? The old ladies at my polling place couldn't tell the difference between a picture of me and 0bummer anyway based on the thickness of their glasses. If people want to commit voter fraud lets at least make them have to go to the trouble of getting an absentee ballot!!!
bb3
just goes to show you haven't been everywhere. here you only need an address to register and then they mail your card to that address,...you can bring that card. no photo id required, no OTHER form of id required. Actually, you can even bring a recent water bill or other utility at that REGISTERED address and that is an acceptable way to verify you live at that address.
I can't wait to have the water turned on at my rental properties in Mickey Mouse's name!
(that last bit was SARCASM,...I don't commit voter fraud; but I bet it ticked you off! You've been conditioned to believe the THREAT of a crime is somehow as egregious as the crime itself - although in typical Republican form you are spending 98% of your effort on less than .000000005% of the actual problem).
How's that working out for you?
You might be surprised to find out that not all soldiers vote republican. Even if what you say is true, those votes probably split out pretty close to the general election results as a whole. Non-sum-zero.
Unless YOU can prove otherwise, this is a total non-starter.
Clara - You still didn't answer my question on what is wrong with making people show some type of ID when they vote? I have a 2nd home in the mountains in another state and could easily tell them that it was my primary address and vote twice. I don't because it's not worth it - I just don't see the problem the left has with having to show an ID?? BTW - I never said I had been everywhere - there are a lot of places I don't want to go, much less vote. Read a little history - there has been a fair amount written on how Major Daley came up with enough dead people voting that changed the results of Illinois in 1960 which swung the vote and the Presidency to Kennedy. Imagine how things might have been different??
Anna I never said anything about them being republican OR democrat (considering I'm neither it's a non-issue) I'm saying that they didn't get their ballots at ALL, so therefor that's 187 people who didn't get to vote at ALL, how many other units didn't get their ballots either? Considering at the time there were 150,000 American troops. That's a lot of votes isn't it?
1SFTitzsWife4ID, I agree that it's a significant breakdown for 187 soldiers, men and women willing to lay down their lives for their country, to not get their chance to vote. If someone isn't looking into what went wrong and putting corrective action in place to make sure it doesn't happen again then someone isn't doing their job.
It also is unconnected with specifying appropriate voter ID very tightly in an attempt to control WHO votes. That latter effort, I maintain, is in fact an insult to the brave souls who serve our military. They're working on behalf of Democracy while politicians here work to make their country less democratic...in all senses of the word.
John I wasn't talking about the ID part with that I was talking about when you said "And yet there are NO RECORDED INSTANCES of people complaining that they tried to vote but weren't allowed to do so because someone else already voted under their identity."
What I meant was where nobody else probably voted under their identity the fact that they didn't get to vote at all was the problem.
I must say though when I voted in the last election it was a time consuming event for me because they didn't change my last name on my voter registration when I got married, and I had to go through a bunch of well crap basically to prove who I "used to be"
While I don't agree that there should be some "special ID" needed to vote I DO believe that you should have SOME form of picture ID to vote.
I agree that not getting to vote at all because ballots didn't get delivered is a serious failure.
Johnb, jody, bob-188 and other interested parties...
A photo ID was still required to be presented in the Iowa elections of Nov 2010. And yes jody a form was still required to be filled out with name and address. A form that if I recall correctly I have filled out since the 70's. The only thing missing in Nov was the computer printout with the registered voters name and address that an election official would cross your name off of as you were handed a ballot.
The point is, and what many here have omitted, is the the fact that a photo ID was still required for presentation for voting in Iowa in 2010.
What should be more worrisome is if the liberals start requiring tattooed bar codes on us or implanted RFD chips
Dems admit it. Your president is wrong. He overstepped the Constitution, or lets say he trampled on it or lets say he has contempt for it or lets say he doesn't believe in it or lets say he wants to rewrite it.
You know Juven....if you went back on your meds, it would help you make up your mind and sound just a little less crazy.
and by the way jb...he's your President too! :)
Suggestion for the dictionary: JuvenBachan = Crazy Idiot.
My goodness...what erudite conversastion from the gentle libs...
You want some ... come and get some.
let's voteÂ
Right-on, Jody!! I think it's primarily the influence of the almighty advertising revenues.
Thanks, Journey, you're so right. Hard to believe not one media person questioned any of the tantrum throwers except the media's goal was to keep the pot stirred, push controversy and doubt where there should have been none. I watched all the events, the addresses, had no trouble finding the details of the Senate Resolution, the 18 legislators who were briefed. No wonder the public has so little faith in Congress and the media alike.
If I was a Democrat I would be running form this party! When I see democrat’s having public events and gatherings, I see so many communist banners’ and posters. I think I’m watching Parade in Red Square Moscow! What happen to the Party of JFK? And Libya can you please explain to me how this is not a war? No fly zone and we are bombing tanks, buildings and tents on the ground, call it for what it is A Regime Change, This is very interesting new black panther You Should Have Listened to Farrakhan When You Were At His Table: New Black Panthers Turn on Obama, here a link WARNING the N-word is used:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ed1_1301323602
ecib;
And when I see the teabaggers (you guys picked the name, not us) on ralliesI see the new Neo-Nazi/Fascist signs and hear their rhetoric on how they support racism, sexism, religious intolerance, class based society etc. Oh yeah you got a great party you belong too alright. You have been exposed as a party that supports most what we found repugnant in Europe during the 30's and 40's. Now are you proud!!!
"Targeted voter purges. In Georgia and other states, minority, immigrant, and college-student voters have been disproportionately "purged" from the rolls on various pretexts”. Young people who can go to war and get killed but they cannot vote. What is wrong with this picture??"
Is the fact a person is not eligible to vote a "pretext"?
Should an illegal immigrant be able to vote? Should a college student be able to vote twice, once in the college town where they go to school, and once back home?
I know the President comes from Chicago, where voter fraud is rampant. And he supported ACORN, an organization that expressly supported voter fraud, and has been caught commiting such fraud in many states.
Polls show most Americans support showing an ID to be able to vote. If you have to show ID to rent a movie, dont you think this basic requirement is needed? And there is ZERO evidence that an ID requirement will exclude anyone ELIGIBLE from voting. An ID requirement will help prevent vote fraud.
Democrats are pro-voter fraud, because it is the "Chicago way". They want to enable millions of illegal immigrants to vote Democratic.
Voter fraud? ACORN? How do you sleep with all those monsters under your bed?
In Chicago, the Democrats sleep with fraudulent ballots from dead voters under their bed.
Diebold, Diebold, Diebold, Diebold. The Republicans have a cannon and the Democrats have a pistol. If a handfull of non-citizens manage to vote it will hardly affect the outcome, but all Diebold has to do is "lose" several thousand votes in certain districts, and voilà! the Republicans win the election.
How many people voted when they weren't qualified, Bob? Despite a week of challenges on this point folks have come up with ONE case of someone who voted without actually being qualified. That person was caught and is subject to prosecution. That's a pretty slim record in the face of TENS OF MILLIONS of people voting each Election Day. Just smoke and mirrors to hide the fact that Conservatives have a coordinated plan to effectively disenfranchise groups of people who traditionally don't vote for them.
Wrap that flag a little tighter with the hand not gripping a cross. Your identity is showing.
So , Amy , your point is , no ID requirement is necessary because voter fraud doesnt exist.....
....except, you then point out that you think voter fraud (by Diebold machines) does exist !
Very astute.
Amy said nothing of the sort. The issue here is requiring specific forms of ID that the poor, the disabled, minorities, and other groups more likely to vote Democratic are less likely to have, as well as excluding resident students, plus other issues. This isn't about controlling voter fraud, it's about making sure the WRONG PEOPLE don't get to vote.
This has been a dream of rectionary Conservatives since the days when my Uncle the John Bircher used to moan that the slippery slope toward disintegration of our society began when people who weren't land owners were allowed to vote. Now crazy groups like the JBS run the Republican Party;
http://www.care2.com/causes/politics/blog/tea-party-leader-only-property-owners-should-be-able-to-vote/
In New Mexico and Washington state, They give illegals Driver liecenses so they can vote, Why do you think they are liberal states?
Thank you for clarifying, John. I was wondering when someone would correct these idiots who keep insisting that the fight is against identification of any sort at the polls. Rather it is against limiting identification to one type, which is very restrictive!
Dee:
It was never about voter fraud. There is no voter fraud problem waiting to destroy this country. The GOP/TP cloaked their agenda of " disenfranchisement" in the wrappings of Voter Fraud. And besides nobody on the left has said we object to ID at the time of voting. I have no problem with showing my ID, but I do have a problem when one party wants one specific type of ID that also happens to be one the many people do not have and a majority of those vote democrat. Those are facts that anybody can google. It is all about power and greed and has nothing to do with Voter Fraud. NOTHING.
Nice post.
Should be interesting how he continues to bash Bush for following the Constitution while praising himself for violating it. Only Congress has the power to make war, even if you do call it a "kinetic military operation" it is still choosing sides in a conflict that has no bearing on this nation.
In a kinetic military operation of wits, Bush was unarmed!!
Really Auntie,
Then why7 has Obama kept all of Bush's programs? Why are the ones that are failing (healthcare reform, cash for clients and the stimulus "funds for friends" the ones that failed?
Guess the Constitution doesn't mean much to the Obama worshipers.
Why did we lose 4,000 troops in Iraq? Where are those damn WMDs, anyway?
I doubt that you'll get a straight answer to your question, navyvet98, although you will likely be personally criticized on this blog.
If he wants his answer, then go find it. Whats wrong with his reasoning skills? He obviously doesnt care about the truth if hes rambling about Obama violating the constitution. If he cant figure out thats a lie, then he has no hope to be spoon fed the truth and understanding it.
Believe at least one judge has ruled health care bill unconstitutional or was I dreaming?
Please explain how President Obama violated the Constitution. The Senate on March 1, passed a resolution supporting what President Obama achieved at the UN. They cannot claim being uninformed when they were informed and had been kept informed throughout the entire process. Under the War Powers Act passed by Congress, a president can take short term military action in the event of a crisis without seeking authorization by Congress. You simply cannot compare the Iraq, undeclared war, to what President Obama through the UN did. It is apples and oranges.
Jody, I don't think some of these folks understand the difference between apples and oranges. They must not have been paying attention to their flash cards and have not been able to regain their attention span since!
This should be good. I'm going to enjoy watching Obama tap-dance before "Dancing with the Stars".
U.S. interest in Libya? OIL!!!!!!
Am I the only one to notice how often the media is forced to criticize the President's "messaging", because they cannot criticize the results?
President Obama is a damn effective leader . . . amazing how many times in his short time as President he has got the message "all wrong" but the outcome of the actual policy has been better that the punditocracy expected.
It's almost like he knows what he is doing and the media is paid to criticize! :o)
P.S. Also, why is the media pretending that combat operations in Iraq are not over? Guess that would ruin the whole "three war" talking point, seeing as one "war" is over and the other "war" is a no fly zone . . . oh well, never let the facts get in the way of a great narrative, right? lol
You are kidding right? You mean the same media that gets a tingle up its leg when he speaks? IOf anything Obama has an open pass from the media to do anything or say anything he wants and they will hail it as wisdom form the oracle.
navyvet,
Do you have a comment that relates to what I actually said? Because what I said was that the President is getting results, even as the peanut gallery whines about which office he gives his speech from. . . or which commentators legs he makes tingle.
You just like to see your name on the internet, right?
Congrats . . . you're a rock star! :o)
The media fails to realize the president is 10 steps in front of them. By the time they catch up to where he was, they find "Mission Accomplished".
:^/
You're right, LouisJ! The president is 10 steps in front of the media, assuming the media is following the president on one of his vacations, or his beer summit, or his golfing ventures, or his weekly White House parties. What the party-theme for this Wednesday?
newoneironaut:
Jealous much? lol
Nashville Fan,
I will wait to see what Obama says tonight about the no fly zone. I've questioned this operation from the get go, but am willing to let further criticism go for this humanitarian military intervention. I am glad that he is going to have an address to make the american people understand why he thought it was necessary to do. That is one thing, clarification some people have asked for. More important than any message however, at least to me is what is the game plan? Understanding that Obama and the admin are not mind readers and can not see the future, I want to know if everything goes well, when can we get out? Price so far is $1 billion and counting.
In addition I would strongly hope that there is no further escalation from a humanitarian military intervention to an aiding and abetting of the rebel militia in a civil war. Trying to be consistent and fair here but, the UN resolution says nothing about clearing the path for the armed rebels. Along with the no fly zone and other measures the thrust of it is to protect civilians not help combatants.
Not meaning to downgrade this issue but we have spoken before about people, the media putting shiny objects in front of us to sucker us into not paying attention to the problems that are facing our nation and people. Perhaps this is one of those shiny objects.
Thanks for your feedback Yellowdog . . . valid points all. I guess, the thing I have learned after watching politics and military operations for the past decade is that there are always pros and cons to any course of action. So regardless of what the President says tonight, there are certainly downsides to becoming involved militarily anywhere, Libya included.
However, I don't think that because the United States cannot help everyone, we should decide to not help anyone. Life isn't fair . . . all we can do is the best we an with the information we have.
I think President Obama has done a masterful job by that criteria. Mistakes have been and will continue to be made, but the overall trajectory of our country - financially and militarily is better now than it was when he was elected a little over two short years ago.
So while I don't agree with everything that has been done, I feel that the country is in good hands, and I can't think of a single other human being that could have done any better with the hand that was dealt.
Honestly, Mark-
The coalition is flying CAP over Libya and destroying armor, equipment, and Libyan army troops on the ground...so much so that the rebels have regained momentum in what you have accurately described as a civil war.
President Obama has put his thumb on the scale in this conflict...that's simply undeniable.
The rebels aren't interested in being humanitarians...they're intent on destroying Gaddafi's regime.
Any aid to them should be viewed in that context...that's the reality.
Nash - So while I don't agree with everything that Obama has done, I feel that the country is in good hands...
Nashville - I would vote for that line if I could.
Mixed Bag - It is a civil war. Although I said I can lessen criticism of the humanitarian military mission, I will not sit quietly if after the speech I feel that the admin is calling for escalation. As it is already it is hard to argue with you that the coalition hasn't overstepped their mandate.
Mark-
With all due respect...it doesn't matter what the Obama Administration says. What matters are the actions President Obama has taken.
If the rebels topple Gaddafi, it will be because of the U.S. military intervention.
They could not have prevailed otherwise...they were on the verge of annihilation at Benghazi, Mark.
That's a fact.
Mixed Bag- I couldn't agree more.
But I tend to wonder, when all is said and done, regardless if it's weeks or months, how will the "rebels" feel about themselves (or us) after? You would think that they would WANT to do it themselves with very little outside help.
I could be wrong but watching how all of this unfolds, I feel like they asked for a no-fly zone, we gave it to them, and now they're just kind of sitting back letting us do the work.
Hi Nash--good to see you posting. I think the media is just not ready for someone who does things differently than they expect them to be done. And I don't think the President really cares about keeping the media happy---he just goes about doing his job. I find it refreshing.
Mixed Bag - ...they(Rebels) could not have prevailed otherwise they were on the verge of annihilation at Benghazi.
Yes Mixed Bag, they probably would have been wiped out at Benghazi if not for the no fly zone. They would have died along with a great many civilians. That was the idea behind the no fly zone, to protect civilians.
I agree with you, it appears as if the coalition while under US control tipped the scales. Now, I am interested in how this will continue under NATO command. Will more scope creep enter the mission? I think we talked about it before, but the resolution prohibits the outside sale of weapons to the combatants both Libyan loyalists and the rebels. Will NATO command break this tenent and supply weapons? I heard a NPR report that the US has seized Libyan assets, the state dept. rep sure sounded like he was double talking when he was asked if the rebels could use those monies to buy weapons.
I am not following the story as much as you; I am much more focused on local issues, Texas budget, school funding, slashing of state agencies etc. From my limited viewing of CNN and my local news it doesn't appear that the rebels can prevail. Whether they want to do it themselves they are not militarily capable.
So far things have gone well as could be expected. However, what happens if the rebels enter Khadaffi's hometown and a protracted battle begins? What happens if this rag tag rebel group takes heavy losses and a clear route is open once again for loyalists to take their revenge?
So many scenarios... All the while voices will be calling for more coalition involvement to stop the slaughter of the rebel combatants. Others will call for more esalation if Khadaffi looks like he will stay in power. If a peace agreement is signed, who will sheperd the peace, hopefully the Arab league. If however, the coalition decides not to intervene more forcefully and the rebels are routed this will be compared to the Bay of Pigs. I know whatever happens some on the right will blame Obama.
Just curious, Mark...
What do you think President Obama meant when he said (with the Libyan rebellion already in progress), "It's time for Gaddafi to go."?
I believe, based on the sentiments expressed above, the President acted primarily to prevent the Libyan rebellion from being crushed...the "humanitarian" angle is for the President's political left flank.
President Obama's main responsibility is to the interests of the United States...I believe he acted with them uppermost in his mind, as I hope any President would and should.
It's certainly advantageous when the honoring of those responsibilities dovetails nicely with the opportunity to display "humanitarianism".
Again...our rebel allies in Libya are NOT humanitarians, Mark.
*Waves to Steeler Fan!*
Good to see you too!
Mixed Bag ...Obama - (with the Libyan rebellion already in progress), "It's time for Gaddafi to go."?
Sure, enjoy the discussion.
I think that perhaps Obama was trying to learn from Egypt and wanted to quickly call for the dictator to go to show support for the "people". Remember he was questioned why it took him so long to declare that Mubarak must go in Egypt. It was a mistake whether it was one of merely terminology or of one of policy. He might clarify tonight.
I have no disagreement. The libyan rebels or for that matter any rebels or revolutionaries are not humanitarians. Don't bring up Robin Hood as an exception. As you stated their idea is to overthrow the dictator, protect themselves and the people and gain his power. My use of the term "humanitarian military intervention" describes action by the US and coalition allies.
Fair enough, Mark-
Don't agree that the intervention is primarily humanitarian in nature.
That said...
Thanks for a civil discussion.
MB
A typical "Defense Lawyer" response will be provided by Obama when he tries to convince the American people that the "Dog ate the homework".
Is funny how people get influence by the media, i feel so bad about this country future , poor obama was dragged into to libya  now the republicans are laughing everyday, they want to make this guy look bad since the first day  and they got  it they keep doing, this war crap they got him  out of focus the media is loving it,Â
The United States is far less concerned about the ramifications of reduced oil exports from Libya than Europe since, as shown here, the U.S. only imports a tiny fraction of their daily needs from Libya:
http://viableopposition.blogspot.com/2011/02/muammars-oil-libyas-contribution-to.html
Perhaps that's why there seems to be a lack of focus and leadership among the coalition partners.
I watched Meet The Press on Sunday and was astonished to hear David Gregory remark that the Republicans do not have a consistent "message" on Libya either. Funny how the media so rarely holds the Republicans accountable for their positions. One of the panelists suggested all the Republicans have to do to "win" this issue is to criticize the President. Oh, that's helpful.
Well nice to see you are a Democratic supporter and possibly one of the people looking for a free hand out from Obama===sorry no more freebies.
Strange that, Amy...it's been the Republican strategy from day 1 and President Obama is STILL more popular than Reagan or Clinton at this point in their terms. http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Approval-Center.aspx
Really, Amy B.?
Because...I though the most astonishing moment on this week's Meet The Press was Hillary Clinton's abrupt interruption of Bob Gates on the subject of whether or not Libya was a "vital interest" of the United States.
I know what I think...what about the liberal/progressive bloggers here at First Read?
Who was correct?
Secretary Gates...or, Secretary Clinton?
Don't hurt yourselves struggling to be the first to answer...
lol
Obama may make his case he was doing right but he did not follow the chain of command that he should have and that makes him irresponsible.
Umm, ellie,
The CHAIN OF COMMAND STARTS WITH PRESIDENT OBAMA -
thus his title, COMMANDER IN CHIEF. He doesn't Follow the coc, he LEADS it.
But thanks for trying to play from the civics board game you got as your parting gift at the Tea Party Reunion.
Ellie, President Obama thinks he works for the world, Not for the People of the United States, It shows every day that under his watch he will only enforce the laws that he thinks need enforced, For example No President has ever been under such pressure to secure the borders like he has, His approach was a band-aid on the problem to be kept from being charged with treason. He has shown over a over that he thinks he has a more power than what his duty to his office gives him and ignores what it fully requires.
This poor excuse of a "leader" is in perpetual campaign mode. He knows no other way. This means he has neither the confidence in his "message" and needs the distraction of an audience to cover his absolute incompetence and hide it while the media will fawn over this "speech.” I will not bother listening to the monotone dullness. There is nothing he will say that will make any sense. The very first day he tried to explain it he was stumbling around and the stupid response was so juvenile it was laughable. The media knew it and quickly stopped playing the inadequate explanation on the MSM. Barack Obama is America's biggest blunder.
When are the Liberals going to call for impeachment? If Bush would have attacked a country, without congress approval, that shows no immediate threat to the USA, there would be calls all over the place.
Oh yea the MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD wanted him to attack. Who Does he listen to the Muslim Brotherhood, or the American People?
What about gun smuggling from Ariz to Mexico. It's his administration but he states that he knows nothing about it. This happen under his watch, is he going to try and blame Bush for it. Where is the Main street media on this. Here he wants to take away American citizens rights to have a gun, while arming our enemies. Oh his buddy Sorros and the Liberal media don't want you to know this.
Democrats have been bankrupting this Country, violating the Constitution, stealing elections & bankrupting the Treasury since 1932!
Good luck in your quest to repeal the 20th Century.
DHP- wheres your proof? Lets look at National Debt vs GDP for the last century and I think we will see a pattern.
History will not look well upon this time when the Republican Party mainstreamed crazy.
Obama can make no case for Lybia. The country will replace one muslim pig with another. There is nothing there for the US.
If countries are unwilling to adopt the US standards of civil liberties they should receive nothing from the US in in any form. Freedom of religion is not an issue. islam is not a religion. It is a cult, founded by a murderer, abuser of females and slave possessor for for the perverted gratification of self indulgent male followers.
Well, I'm glad you're not one of those religious bigots who actually want this to be a war against Islam...Oh wait, apparently you are...please crawl back under the rock of ignorance you call home.
Hey Mel, want to take a look at the Christian church during the time of Constantine? Do you follow Glen Beck? Ever research the origions of Mormonism and the beliefs they once followed, but which most members renounce today? For that matter, you've just described the good ol' confederate US of A not so many years ago!
If Obama had to wait this long (traveling day for the Final Four) to speak to the nation, it tells me the context of his message must not be very important. If it were something worthwhile listening to, he would have been on the tube 3-4 nights ago. But nope...March Madness was on. Obama has a lot on the line with his bracket.
Let's keep things in perspective, shall we? Good grief. blah, blah, blah. I have a friend who is stone deaf. Why can't they put the camera on the telepromter so my friend can read along with our leader. You know, follow the bouncing ball.
Does anyone else think George W. Bush "broke" the office of the President? I know Presidents have always been criticized, second guessed, etc. but since President Bush left with an approval rating in the 20's, critics have jumped all over President Obama at the first hint that an issue will be difficult or complex. They sound like insecure children "fix it! fix it, Daddy," instead of rational adults. So little trust in the office, so little patience with reality, such anxiety.
Good point Amy, I don't remember Clinton catching this sort of grief outside of his sex scandals. People seem to trust the government to run the important things then.
Jeff,
Clinton's issue wasn't a sex scandal. It was a perjury issue.
So ralph, was it worth $200MILLION taxpayer dollars to show that people lie in order to hide affairs?
The Beev:
President Obama did not need a teleprompter to make a whole room full of Republicans look like "special needs"kids during the Republican confab last year.
He ususally smater tha most people int he room and that what is driving the Republicans crazy. The yage him because he is smart and just happens to play chess better thanthey do most of the time.
They think this is a game. It is not, It is life and death for a whole lot of people both foreighn and domestic and they keep yelling is:
"we are want our country back" or "we're going to take ur country back"
Black folk know this is code for "get that Negro out of the White House. That is prescisely why we keep hearing the nonsense about Kenyan this and Kenyan that.
This is a pathetic display by a civilized and supposedly forward thinking republic.
Guess the right chooses to ignore the Presidential Address given explaining the upcoming UN multi-lateral action PRIOR to leaving the country. They also ignore all the other pre-trip addresses, messages given in the weeks leading up to the UN Resolution 1973.
And crazy is rampant on the Right, johnbirch42;
The great thing is that the Repubs get to run in 2012 against the same ??leadership?? team that lead the Dems to historic defeats in 2010. 0bummer, Piglosi & Dirty Harry Reid - the gift that keeps on giving!!
no comment on the subject but please stop calling our president by his name he should always be addressed as President Obama show some respect.
I respect the office of the President of the United States...I just do not respect the man cuurently holding that office. I do agree that he should be addressed as "President Obama" or "Obama". I choose Obama.
Thanks for the thoughtful insights... Bubba