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Subscribe to RSSNBC's Athena Jones reports: President Obama participated in a National Security Council meeting on Libya today and will speak with leaders of Congress in a conference call shortly to update them on what's going on in Libya, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said during a briefing today.
It will be a bipartisan group, and it's part of what Carney called a series of consultations the president and administration officials have had with members of Congress.
*** UPDATE *** Carney also said -- re: consulting with Congress -- that had Obama waited for Congress to come back from recess, there's very little doubt Benghazi would have fallen and people would have died.
He also allowed that the U.S. was the "principal actor" in the first phase of the no-fly zone implementation.
"There was no question that we were leading in the first phase," he said.
He goes on to say it was a partnership, but that at least in the first several days the U.S. was flying a majority of the missions.
He said that ratio is changing and reiterated that the command of the no-fly mission is shifting to NATO, and that the U.S. would no longer be in the lead.
*** UPDATE 2 *** NBC's Shawna Thomas reports that Speaker Boehner's office said the group invited to participate in the call with the president is essentially the same that did the call last Friday before the president announced the action in Libya. Boehner will be participating in the call.
The list last week was:
Majority Leader Reid,
Democratic Whip Hoyer,
Senator Levin,
Senator Lugar,
Senator Chambliss,
Representative Rogers,
Representative Ruppersberger,
Speaker Boehner,
Majority Leader Cantor,
Democratic Leader Pelosi,
Senator Durbin,
Senator McConnell,
Senator Kyl,
Senator Kerry,
Senator Feinstein,
Representative McKeon,
Representative Ros-lehtinen
Representative Berman
Leave a Comment:
As usual, the "mending" will be all on one side, with the rangler doing all the work, and the fence criticizing him while he does it.
The nails will all fall out shortly thereafter, leaving the fence as torn and broken as it was before.
Whereupon the fence will criticize the rangler again.
Any questions?
Anna Molly, a very funny but effective post. I wonder how the Party of NO will wrangle out of that?
If you consider the list of people included, it's clear that key leadership members of both parties, from both houses, have indeed been consulted and informed, in the past, and now again with current events.
The fiction the GOP/TP continues to sell is that the President "ignores the Constitution," or is in regular violation of it. In this flap about Libya, they repeat that fiction although it is entirely clear that President Obama has not acted outside the authority of his office. All the NAYSAYERS want is to yet again sell a BIG Lie to the American people.
Dennis Kucinich, who is an avid dove, makes things worse by adding his own strident voice to the din.
If we consider the developments of just a few days, it's clear the President has achieved remarkable successes. His deft dealing with NATO - and most certainly that was led by Secretary of State Clinton - in so few days is the equivalent of running a two-minute mile. By even winning agreement from Turkey, a NATO member nation loathe to participate in the Libyan excursion for many reasons, the President has scored a stunning advance.
There are going to be further developments, we may be sure, that further reduce American prominence and presence in Libya. No matter what develops, the Party of NO will continue to flip-flop, gripe, misrepresent and outright lie just to try to lay some more stripes on President Obama. It's a revolting display of conscienceless partisanship, and the American people are getting sicker and sicker of GOP/TP antics.
So, Speaker Boehner was told last Friday what was gonna happen & he still LIED!
Where's the story on this aspect Athena, Domenico, Ali?
BTW, Athena, whassup with President Obama participated with his NSC? I'd think you'd know that it's HIS NSC, so in otherwords, "President Obama met with his NSC"!
This is what gets me, Journalist trying to make headlines, while wording things to Suit thier Personal Agenda's.
Why'd you put it that way Athena?
John, you are Correct on the Turkey thing. If I remember correctly, Turkey told Bush No freaking way will you come into Northern Iraq, VIA Turkey.
Yep, President Obama's definitly a Terrorist Loving Muslim!
Come On 1st read, feed the beast that is the Religous Right with that aspect!
I knowya got it inya, or least Chucky T. does.
John you only named Dennis Kucinich fromt he democratic party and no others, why? John, does this mean we will set up a no fly zone throughout the world where countries are killing their own people? What about Syria?
If we can get more video footage of Obama discussing his NCAA bracket than we can get of him talking about Lybia there is a problem. Your post cracks me up with the bashing of one party when both parties are saying Obama has some splaining to do! :)
Why Lybia Mr. President? If it is because of oil then just say so! LOL
Apparently Boehner switched Cell Carriers. He is now with Verizon and can take the call from the 19th hole. Hopefully the call comes in before the 5th round.
In case any of you guys run into Obama at the ice cream joint, or at the movies - you might let him know .......
Syrian troops killed another 100 protestors - this time in southern Deraa, the African Union was a no show for cease fire talks, Hezbollah is rocketing Ashdod and Ofakim in Israel, southern Israel is closing schools and bomb shelters are being opened up. Hamas is evidently trying to provoke Israel into a war - elevate everything to the same regional level as the Libyan deal, take heat off Syria bloodbath and distract from Arab uprisings in Yemen and Bahrain. Of course, Iran wants all these distraction from the progress on their bomb and their undermining involvement in Bahrain.
Oh yea, Israel Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al-Faisal are meeting with Putin in Russia. They're bringing along Saudi Intelligence chief Prince Muqrin bin Abdulaziz and who will met with Israeli guys including Ehud Olmert.
Weren't Russia, Saudis, Israel our buds and now we work for the Arab League, the Syrians,....wierd.....
This forieign policy stuff is a b!tch, huh Obama.
Especially when you don't have a clue, but tell him the crew at FR says he sure is doing a swell job.
LoL Thanks, John, and especially for not criticizing my spelling, on which I typically pride myself. I guess you can tell just how much I know about wranglers.
As for your question, I think diversion is winning. I see we've hauled out basketball already.
We are not there for the oil. If Gaddafi had been allowed to regain control over Lybia the oil would be flowing faster than it is now.
Those nifty "fire tomahawk missle" and "launch air force strike" apps for Obama's BlackBerry probably were not a very good idea
Dang Bob, hezzbolah stiill around are they? Daum, I coulda sworn Ronnie Reagun whipped thier butt's way back in 1980 something. But after crawlin thru these Tubes, i come to findout Reagun "Tucked Tail & Ran".
Hurry, dig up his Bones so he can correct this Foreign Policy mistake before the rapture!
Anna Molly, I was scratching my head over ranglers, which is pretty funny given my challenges with spelling, but then I got caught up with the image of a fence with a mind of it's own, spitting out nails as fast as a cowboy tried to pound them in, kind of like the objects in The Sorcerer's Apprentice, flying around to symphonic music.
All right. I'll bite. Especially when ... George W. Bush took care of all of that when he was President. Why, I think everything that's going on right now expressly violates the terms of that detailed peace agreement Bush worked out between Israel and the Palestinians, or the agreement he worked out with Iran, or his ongoing symbiotic relationship with Vladimir Putin, into whose eyes he so longingly looked.
In short, bob ... President Obama didn't cause all of this, just like Bush didn't fix it when it was his turn. There's simply too much to do, and it's not all our responsibility. As someone wisely explained yesterday on Tweety's show, you've got your crises, and then you've got your "strategic interests." You have to put your resources first into your strategic interests. Governing is about picking and choosing, bob; otherwise, why didn't Bush clean up Somalia while he was at it?
And picking his battles is exactly what President Obama has done so far.
So kindly lay off, unless you can give some sort of coherent and specific description of WHAT ELSE the President OUGHT TO DO about all of this, instead of merely ranting that all of this exists.
Because that amounts to reading the phone book.
@Bob - I think this is EXACTLY this issue that our President is faced with in the Middle East.
In Egypt, the people complain and protest and the ruler steps down.
In Libya, the people complain and protest and the ruler shoots them..and stays in power. The UN gets involved and bombs the crap out of you.
If you ruled Syria, what would you do when the people protested? If no one stands up in Libya, then the leader of Egypt looks like a fool for not clamping down on his people and riding it out.
There are huge changes taking place in the Middle East.
Unfortunately, countries in Africa like the Sudan "really" have no strategic interest for the U.S or any other power ( Russia/China/France/UK/Germany ) so they get .....nothing
Amy B -- That's a beautiful way of putting it. I'm a visual, too, and it's nice to know someone else with that kind of poetry in their soul.
Hey, John A., Research Bidens comments about Bush + impeachment. By his very standard, Obama should be impeached. The news says Syria is killing it's people today as is Sudan, Somalia, Yemen and China amongst others. I think Obama should consult with the UN and convene a no fly zone over these nations as well. Surely a bankrupt nation such as ours can afford more worlwide meddling??????
Pablo-FL
Exactly! Syria sees the other Arab countries getting behind the no-fly zone over Libya, and they realize it's not just big bad America they have to worry about - their neighbors are not going to look the other way when they kill protesters. Syria: THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING.
Well, darlin', I promise to do that just as soon as I figure out how to work that on-line dictionary thingy.
Right now, however, I'm trying to work out what all those "F" keys are for on the top row of my Mac keyboard. I especially like the arrow keys. Does anyone know what they're for? Maybe F8. Anyone?
Oh, by the way, darlin', as for "criticism that hasn't happen yet" somewhere I got the idea that AT LEAST John Boehner did just that:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2011/03/24/134830879/obama-aide-rejects-boehner-charge-on-lack-of-libya-consult
You're right about one thing, though. You've got work to do.
We are at war. I don't care what president Obama wants to call it. When our fighter jets are doing the majority of shooting at someone we disagree with we call it war. The major call for impeachment I believe has come from a member of the President's own party. I don't hear much from the opposing party except for the fact that they want to be informed as to what is going on. From the article I read it seems like the Presidents spokesperson is trying to clear up what has been said already. So please Mr. President, clear up all the previous statements and then both parties should STFU and do everything to end this war.
Rick,
Being president is the toughest job in the world, even the best of them make mistakes / listen to the wrong guy at some time. Reagan regreted very much his handling of the Lebanon bombing. Big mistake. Not like him, but oh well. Bottom line - fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
What do say when you are still getting fooled after 30 years?
Anna,
We can sit here and argue the degree to which Obama has created for himself. Him getting punked by Putin over and over. His betrayal of the UK, Israel, Poland, The Chech Republic ....... Afghanistan ........ START...... Iran .... treating enemies like friends and friends like enemies....... regardless he is out of his depth and can not handle the job. The world knows it, the intelligent Dems like Hillary know it (amatuer hour?)..... on and on.
It is sad to say, but the economy has been so bad with no real improvement - people lose track how absolutely incompetent he is at foreign affairs.
What is pathetic is that in light of Afghanistan, Iran, etc. Obama passes a social agenda issue -repeal of DADT and everyone ont he left thinks he saved the Galaxy. So absolutely clueless about what has gone on out there in the past and what is really going on out there now.
As far as me laying off - yea right.
The "Gross Odd People "(GOP) and the "Really Not Competent"(RNC) seem to be going after our President. Again! No matter what President Obama does he will be viewed as someone that he is not. I have noticed that the GOP is very quick to bash our President for anything he tries to do. Again! The recent "two-faced" politics of "Nutty Newt" is just old news. The "Bonehead Birthers," and " Palin's Political Punks" are out to destroy this President at all costs. The party of "No" has no ideas, policy, or goals of their own to help all citizens succeed. Not just the rich few! Since 2008, the voices of political, social, and diplomatic insanity of the "Gross Odd People" (GOP) is repetitve and useless. A clear example of this insanity is seen in Wisconsin." Whacky Walker" is a union bashing thug, and is clearly for a state for the very rich. Big business, large insurance companies will get huge tax breaks in Wisconsin." Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! The Party of No has got to go!" In the case of Wisconsin. We are just going to recall "Whacky Walker."
But, but, but, BOB, Ronnie Reagun "Told the World, Where to Go & how to get There" did'nt he?
So now you're saying he "Tucked Tail & Ran"?
Better take his name off of all this federal stuff, because it's putting people to Sleep, On The Job!
Being President is the Tuffest job in the World. Thats the 1st Honest thing you've ever posted Bob.
I'm sure you meant to add, But not if ya have a Teleprompter!
Bob, Spank need's an answer to the 3% Growth & the 190,000 JOBS created by President Obama's policys, you care to tackle that for us?
Not like him? Well, that's true, he never made another one quite like that one. But then, what about his role in causing the S&L scandal and the huge bailout that caused massive budget deficits and essentially forced George H.W. Bush to raise taxes, ending HIS chances of being re-elected?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings_and_loan_crisis
And then there was that little Constitutional dust-up called Iran-Contra for which his secretary of defense eventually had to be PARDONED, and which may have involved treasonous interference with the Iran hostage crisis in order to get himself and that former CIA director who was involved in that little plot elected in the first place.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Contra_affair
Those little items WEREN'T mistakes? I see.
BTW -- I wasn't really worried about you laying off, bob. That wouldn't be any fun at all.
Dagnabit AnnaMolly, now you've taken my weekend from me, by haveing to find New tubes to crawl thru & find that Info. LOL !!!
Reagun's UnderSec of Defense( i think, so don't quote me) Lawrence Korb was on lastnight saying President Obama was doing the Right thing. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm !
Go Figure!
Hurry Up President Obama, get the USS Ronnie Reagun somewhere close, I wanna seeya land on 1 them there TomaHawk Missles wearing your Superman Cape.
Mission"Twisting Republican's into A Pretzel " Accomplished!
So my First Read Friends - if the mission or goal was the creation of a no fly zone, and that is now in effect, are we not all done?
Anna M. I getting scared. I don't think these people are telling us the truth. It seems that they must intend something other than a no fly zone.
We are going in, boot on the ground aren't we?
Rick my man, if you want to see what a real pretzel looks like head on over to Firedoglake, Kos, or even Huff. Post.
The liberal world is not amused Rick. Us nasty conservatives are always for killing muslims. Come on man, you know that.
No idea, Spanky, but I wouldn't be altogether surprised. If NATO goes in "boots on the ground," then we do.
When the baton was passed, the only thing that got passed was a baton.
Yes, anna, I have a question:
Where in the world did you conjure up such an infantile, intelligence-challenged rant?
That's the unfortunate reality Anna. And it sucks.
DAmn you Mixed Bag!
Which one? So many infantile, intelligence-challenged rants, so little time.
Actually, I did it in my little cauldron ... double, double, toil and trouble ... and all that.
Care to taste the brew?
As I recall, Turkey wouldn't allow our troops to set up for their invasion of Iraq at our military base there because it would appear that they are attacking another Muslim nation. Actually, it wasn't the Turks doing the attacking, it was the US. For the second highest recipient of US $s, there should be a more open policy about preping for attacks in US military bases worldwide. Besides, didn't the Turks kill a number of Kurds within the last year? The bodies were found in a mass grave, weren't they? Ironic, though, the Kurds are Muslim as well. Who needs friends like that?
Ann The F keys are for expressing F%%k Off in different degrees
Not you but the others that cannot see the value in helping stop a genocide.
I would be very upset if the USA did not use its Assets to kick Dafey's a— s_s
F12 THAT
Obama does not need to consult the american people or the house, we are part of a larger one world government headed up by unelected officials from the highest level of the corporate and banking world. why bother with we the people? we are nothing, just useless eaters who use up precious resources and pollute with our selfish lifestyles. no, we need to be more like the chinese, slaves, starving, used for organ harvesting, and held to the absolute power of the god like state. libya, so what if libya is no threat in any way to the outdated USA. that old fuddy constitution that just gets in the way of absolute power is in need of change. hell, obama has a degree in destroying the constitution. could not ask for a more qualified puppet, the fortune 100 and the world financiers love that. soon the dead american middle class, their guns, and their dam freedom will be a thing of the past, and they can institute a global wave of slavery with no opposition. whatever you do, keep supporting the puppet in chief. please make sure my kids are slaves in adulthood, being raped by every lord who wishes. heaven for the elite and heaven for us middle class are two different things, and of course, their guy obama will do everything he can to make sure their heaven becomes a reality, we call it a living hell, but hay at least the elite will be pleasured, i mean pleased. thanks for hope and change, is it what you wanted?
Here's another law they didn't bother to read. Under the WPA and WPR the issue of Congress being in recess is addressed. The President will direct the leaders of the Congress to "recall" the Congress and consult with them before taking any action. He failed.
Read the National Security Act of 1947. You are unprepared for this debate.
Again I ask why Michele Bachmann is left off this list? Is she not a leader of the Tea Party? And possible Presidential candidate?
No, and no. ;-)
Steeler Fan-380417
Again I ask why Michele Bachmann is left off this list? Is she not a leader of the Tea Party? And possible Presidential candidate?
She may be raising money for her exploratory committee.
Besides, why should she? She thinks he is not the legal President; at least until he shows her his birth certificate.
Beverly, why do you think it is Obama won't release his birth certificate? Don't get me wrong I believe he is a US born citizen, but very curious on why he won't show it and be done with it! It would be over!
I hope states continue to pass legislation where candidates must show birth certificate in order to be on the ballot! If it is a requirement to be president, then why not just show it?
I dont understand Obama for not releasing it as much as the people who dont believe he is US born.
Why wasn't Sarah Palin informed? Isn't she a roving U.S. Ambassador? Didn't she just brief India and Israel on our foreign policy?
Her only interest is in stopping the funding for ObamaCare. She is the poster-child for our government: They run as Republicans and Democrats but when they get into office , they need to govern and lead yet they are all stuck in full-time campaign mode.
So we the people get NADA.
End result is Bachmann is a one-trick pony.
Libya isn't ObamaCare so she don't care.
James-2110694
Because that would be complying with unequal treatment of the right. Did they request GWB's certificate? No? Why not? What will they want next - ask for his DNA to make sure he's human? I am sure he complied with any government agency that checks every single presidential candidate prior to even being elected. To become an FBI agent, you must go through a screening where the FBI even interviews your childhood friends, teachers, neighbors. My brother-in-law, who applied for an accounting job with the FBI and he's "only" an accountant.
So to answer your question why he won't? Because he does not have to comply with every idiotic request. Next thing he will have to prove is that he IS NOT building concentration camps for the American citizens.
The president did supply his birth certificate a couple of years ago. Maybe one of the moderators can repost a link to it again. They have done it several times before, hopefully this time it'll stick.
James-2110694
Beverly, why do you think it is Obama won't release his birth certificate? Don't get me wrong I believe he is a US born citizen, but very curious on why he won't show it and be done with it! It would be over!
Because he did already and I trust my government's vetting of him.
I hope states continue to pass legislation where candidates must show birth certificate in order to be on the ballot! If it is a requirement to be president, then why not just show it?
I dont understand Obama for not releasing it as much as the people who dont believe he is US born.
Just you going on with this you wonder why and states should have this and that makes you complicit with the nutty birthers. Can't you see what the Republicans are doing ? If ever so many states are not letting him on the ballot he can't win. of course, that's the Master Plan; isn't it?
Anyhow soon anyone can buy his birth certificate for $100 ; embross and wear it around their neck if they like.
Get Your Own Copy of Obama’s Birth Certificate for Just $100
It would change privacy laws to allow any American to get a copy of Obama's birth records, for a $100 processing fee.
This seems like an excellent idea; the perfect 78th birthday present for the xenophobic great uncle in your life. (However, requests for Obama's birth certificate have dropped to around zero-five per week, so it won't be much of a cash cow.)
http://gawker.com/#!5745413/get-your-own-copy-of-obamas-birth-certificate-for-just-100
I say we just disqualify both Obama and McCain, who was undisputedly born in the Panama Canal Zone, and not in the USA, and then just look down the line to who would have been next to serve.
The way I see it, the choices are simple: You make the disqualification retroactive to the day of the 2008 election, because that's only right, and because these are my rules. Bush could not continue in office because of whichever Constitutional Amendment says enough Bush is enough. At that point, you could take Dick Cheney, who was Vice President at the time, but that would be iffy because he didn't go through an election in 2008. Or, you could take your vice presidential candidates, either Biden or Palin, makes no difference to me. You pick. Or, you could do it the way it's supposed to be done, and that would be the Speaker of the House of Representatives at the time, which would be Nancy Pelosi.
SO WHAT'S YOUR POINT?
@vineswine
According to a March 22nd NY Times article, "70 percent of both Republicans and Democrats and 65 percent of independents approve of the missile and airstrikes. Three-quarters of the public think the campaign to enforce a no-fly zone authorized by the United Nations Security Council will be effective, but only 20 percent expect it to be very effective in protecting civilians and rebels from Colonel Qaddafi’s forces."
Also: Bushes Iraq war objectives were not met. Obama's objectives have already been met. You may want to delete that objectives part next time you repost that somewhere.
vineswine
If Bush didn't push the issue of going after the 9/11 terrorist and WMD, I can guarantee you that the vote would have been different. The only mistake that the Congressmen (women) made was belive that the President was telling the truth.
Also, I'm not sure if you remeber the : "you're either with us or you're with the terrorist" propaganda.
We are not at war with Libya. The President did consult with Congress. In fact, the Senate passed a resolution calling for a "no-fly zone", which ended up in the UN resolution.
The War Powers Resolution of 1973 was a United States Congress joint resolution providing that the President can send US armed forces into action abroad only by authorization of Congress or if the US is already under attack or serious threat. The War Powers Resolution requires the president to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days, with a further 30 day withdrawal period, without an authorization of the use of military force or a declartion of war.
Republicans, on the other hand, would normally support this sort of thing, but are torn between supporting the action and trying to find a way to not support Obama. They seem to have settled on the talking point that it is "too little, too late" (or I was for it before I was against it like Newt Gingreich), or for allowing another country to take leadership on this.
ballie, you're right about republicans being torn between supporting the action and trying to find a way to not support Obama. This has been their game plan for everything Obama has tried to do, not just this one thing. If Bush were still President they would be all for it, no if, whats, or buts. Its has been very abusive what they have wanted to do to him. I wander where this is coming from, I do think I know why but won't go there.
Goodness gracious. Heaven forbid that anyone should try -- even in the interests of academic freedom -- to look into the deeper motivations and background of Wisconsin's recent legislative misadventures --
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/03/wi-gop-foias-emails-of-state-university-prof-critical-of-gov-walker.php
Paranoia strikes deep, I guess. And welcome to the new era of the thought police. George Orwell may have been a few years late, but he finally made it to the party.
This is waste of time and money on many levels.
AM, you're the lawyer, I take it that the emails of all employees at state universities are subject to FOIA? If so then good luck to them on this trawling mission.
On the other hand why do they give a @!$%#? They're only going to expose who came up with the original idea (Karl Rove anyone?). Do they really think that destroying the messenger will be a bigger story than the origin of the plan? This really is a who cares quest.
BTW Don't know who asked yesterday about reading the post on the mural in NH. I did and found out that it was the Federal Government that shelled out the $60K in 2008. Why are my tax dollars paying for a 60K decoration in a state government office? Cut spending you morons!
Because there was money for it then? I guess it just goes to show WHEN the current crisis began, and that it isn't because of years and years of ongoing deficits because of public worker unions. It's the economy ....
But why would the cost of the mural a few years ago be an argument that it ought to be taken down now? The money is gone, gone, gone. If you take it down and replace it with something more suitable, from the perspective of the knothead in Maine who's complaining about it, it will only cost more money.
Yes, it was a FOIA request, but no, it appears that not all e-mails would be subject to it. Evidently, there must be some exception for e-mails between faculty and students. But you're right about what's likely to come of it. Go ahead and tell everyone what you found out about us. Sheesh.
It's just more evidence of paranoia and an attempt to intimidate their opposition. So far, that doesn't seem to be working out that well. I was interested in the articles that someone pointed me to on the last thread or so about the e-mails Walker received about the bill. Closer inspection showed something he probably didn't want the public to know -- that a lot of his alleged e-mail support was coming from out of state, and only after he raised the issue. No wonder Walker was resisting turning over the records in such an unreasonable manner that he was ultimately forced to pay money to settle the lawsuit.
And especially ironic, don't you think, in consideration of this FOIA request for the professor's e-mail?
So... a History Professor at the University of Wisconsin-Madison is a raving leftist moonbat?
Gee, never woulda seen that coming...
Alan, NJ
This is waste of time and money on many levels.
Umm, that would be the Koch brothers' money since, to my understanding, his poll numbers are down;, recall petitions are piling up; violence was mentioned as a scheme twice; once by the fake Koch brother and the other by a deputy prosecutor and Republican activist in Indiana. .
Email to Walker suggested faking violence (original story)
http://www.wisconsinwatch.org/2011/03/24/email-to-walker-suggested-faking-violence-original-story/
@AM I believe we were running a federal deficit in 2008 as well, so why was there money for it?
And no the public sector unions are not the cause of prior deficits but their future compensation agreements are. I don't want to go back on forth on this but you tell me how we can allow a cop to retire after 25 years and then pay him basically his salary and benefits for the next 25 years? Just as unions did not cause the current crisis, banks did not cause a shift in life expectancy.
@Bev
Don't FOIA requests cost the government money? I think that's what you're asking although I'm not sure. I'm very confused why you are mentioning Walker, Koch Brother and suggestions of violence when I was replying to a post about a FOIA request regarding a university professor.
Correct Alan, just like future compensation packages for elected officials are!
I don't seem to see you or other's posting about That Aspect, but again there's so many Tubes to crawl thru, I may not have found that 1 yet!
IF you're talking about them getting life time pensions just for being elected I'm with you on that. Let them have a 401(k) that transfers when they lose.
LoL, Alan -- because it was in Maine.
Because we use them up and then tell them when to retire. What the heck other incentive would there be for anyone to take that job? Just like there will soon be very little incentive for ANY public employees to take those jobs. How short-sighted you sound. It's not all about what's in your pocket today.
Those sneaky New Englanders funneling federal money around.....Once you hit the NJ border they all sound the same
Really? You don't seem like much of a student of history to me, Bob. And frankly, I'd have to say that about half of the "raving" that I see around this site comes from you and that other bob guy.
Raving righty moonbats? I like it. Don't forget to look up.
LoL if you're saying it was federal money, and you might be right, then that state official in Maine doesn't have much authority to say whether it should be taken down or not, now does he?
But if $60,000 is all the federal government waste you can find since 2008, then what the heck are you griping about? Go back and turn over a few more stones. Like maybe how much we waste in the Congressional cafeteria using paper instead of plastic.
Oh, I forgot, Speaker Boehner already triumphed over that particular evil liberal excess.
And so far, I would say that's about it for Speaker Boehner, wouldn't you agree?
Anna Molly, you are just the best.
Regarding the out of state influence in Wisconsin, Maine is also discovering the reach of the Koch Brothers.
The Maine Heritage Policy Center has it's fingers all over Governor LePage's administration and it's proposed anti-union, pro-polluters policies. MHP is affliiated with the Heritage Foundation, a national conservative think tank funded by the Charles G. Koch Foundation.
http://www.dirigoblue.com/diary/2544/koch-brothers-place-their-guy-in-the-speakers-office
What's the matter Anna M - you too dis-satisfied with the fine "journalism" being exhibited around here? I get you are itching for some Wisconsin love [sorry about the game last night], but this is about war.
Did you not see the video Domenico and Murray did earlier? I get the sense the feel the heat. Too bad they can't do anything about it - they got to follow the corporate marching orders it seems.
Is California the only state that the Koch Brothers has zero influence?
See totas, they must be pretty smart not to even invest in Cali.
Brother Cali is going down. I give it maybe 15 months, then BOOM.
It is a tit too big, with too many little tit wranglers.
So all the people on the above list were consulted by the President last Friday?
Yes ... ummm ... except for the ones for whom it is now inconvenient to remember that.
No, they weren't "consulted". They were "informed" of Barry plans to attack Libya the next day.
Informing them in advance serves as consultation, one way consultation, but consultation none the less. If they had any real problem with what he was doing they could have gone public with his plans, ruined them, and taken the matter to court. The didn't , because they, like you Joe, are little b!tches.
Interesting that as a news watcher and reader, I was well aware of the various trips to the UN, the debate that took place there over the last three weeks, SoS Clinton's addressing the crisis in Libya several times, the President making comments several times, the media reporting the discussion of a No-Fly Zone and the administration's efforts to form a consensus to take some kind of action--yet Congress claims they knew nothing.
Were you against the attack on Libya, Joe? Would you have told him not to do it?
Paul, is your tin foil hat on a little tight today??
AM, that's not the issue. The issue is that candidate Barry said one thing about a President making a unilateral decision to commit US troops to military action without going to Congress first to get authorization, calling it "unconstitutional". Then, President Barry does exactly that: unilaterally commits US troops to miltary action in Libya without going to Congress to get authorization.
BTW, any of the lefty liberals that want to make the point that this a multilateral action, not unilateral, please believe me when I say that I agree that the current military action is multilateral in that it includes a variety of countries. The unilateral action I am referring to is Barry's decision to commit US troops to the multilateral miltary action. He was the sole decisionmaker because he chose not to go to Congress and seek authorization. When a single individual makes the decision, the decision is unilateral.
Joe. Would you point me to a statement from one of the listed names, that says they were not consulted.
Why Pat, is your google shortcut not working?
Congress members from both sides have been saying it for a week now.
The CiC can commit "troops" to military action in concert with the UN under Treaty provisions. B!tch, b!tch, b!tch,........if there were any substance to your whiny complaint, Boehner would be filing for impeachment.
Already said that it in First thoughts yesterday Joe Albany....
In Libya, I understand that Obama worked in a multilateral coalition, with the UN resolution and security council and with the consent of the Arab league and allies of NATO etc; but he ordered it unilaterally.
I for one thinks it was within his powers to do this action as part of his role as commander in chief. He was not requesting authorization to declare war. But we must remember that there is a difference between doing something unilaterally (executive branch) and working multilaterally as a country with cooperating foreign entities.
Good news is Kucinch is running away from his impeachment comments like the little girl he is. So funny to hear him spin and squirm when confronted with not just his own, but also Biden's and O's 2007 comments.
Same bat time, same bat channel [just different sides now].
Joe in Albany
Paul, is your tin foil hat on a little tight today??
Joe maybe your tin foil hat is too loose and that's why you can't make the connection here.
Speaking of tinfoil hats where's Feisty I miss her.
So rc - do you know what comes after the no fly zone? Nato has the no fly, so are we not all done, mission accomplished, yada, yada?
So rc - do you know what comes after the no fly zone? Nato has the no fly, so are we not all done, mission accomplished, yada, yada?
Spunky......No Mr. Question Man maybe you can tell us instead of just asking dumb questions and you never answering any.
By the way some one mentioned the word gadfly yesterday and it fits you perfectly........Now go home and get your shine box
Well - according to Paul here, it's a No Genocide Zone.
So we are all in, boots on the ground.
That is absolutely terrible. Or are you good with that rc?
And rc, what's witht the name calling? It's a little childish, wouldn't you agree? Are you not the father of adult daughters? That how you'd want them to behave, or is this an impulse issue with you?
"shine Box?" I have no idea, but my shoes do need a shine. Maybe you could help.
LMAO...Not as childish as you with your BS questions and your snide remarks. Also have you never seen the Good Fellas.? As far as my children go I would never want them to grow up and be a pompous a$$ like you.
So, Spanky -- just out of curiosity -- what's your own position on the possible impeachment of President Obama for crimes against inhumanity?
Or, now that there's a substantive question on the table, is it happy hour, gotta run?
I think he should have gotten Congress's approval, but I'm for allowing the president to make the call. the whole "cowboy" thing is ok with me, they are the leader. Right decision, wrong decision I will not fault the having the nads to make the call. Making the call is always hard.
Unfortunately, it was a bad call. No frigging way we should protect this particular group against this particular government. Not our business. Have we not learned anything from Bush's forays in the middle east?
I could care less if Kadaffi wins or loses. It's not our call. And As much as Hussein was a douche bag, at least he maintained order.
And now look at Egypt - the Brotherhood is in control. Terrible.
Not to mention the human and economic costs.
So how's that? And unfortunately Happy hour is three hours away - it's only 2:20 here. :(
Thanks, that was very helpful. And I don't disagree with a lot of it. As for whether it's a bad call, that's why I'm still on the fence. it was the whole let's save 100,000 people from imminent destruction that first caught my attention. Don't know if that was real or not, or whether, as you suggest, it was really worth worrying about. But I also keep hearing about our "strategic interest" in Libya. Is that just oil, or is there something else? And do you give any shrift to this notion that if we don't get Khaddafi now, then we have to worry about terrorism down the line? After all, do we ever do anything else but worry about terrorism?
Let's be clear - this is the left's nightmare. a war fought for oil, plain and simple.
Or perhaps in a country comprised of all of 4 million people, that produces nothing other than oil and is a desert waste-land, there is some other strategic interest?
We know the truth and the truth is bad. And the fact that you comes from a black, "progressive dem is all the worse.
Sometimes it really is just that ugly and bad.
I'm worried, Spanky. You?
Hi I asked Obama to do this and he complied. I was inspired by egypts call for Freedom and Democracy. Hope I spelled that right. I believe that we should protect those who fight for this ideal of ours. I am sure a lot of poeple in perticular dems like me would of asked him too as well. I like the Arabs and think republicans have abused them. I want Arabs to know we are not that kind of country and people and that Bush played us for fools. I also want them to know that things are different when a Democrat is in charge. I want them to realize we can be friends and repair the damage done by BUSH. That is our interest. I think those who say otherwise are republicans or independents. Because you dont understand how democracy is our interest not capitalism.
10% of the US Senate and 8 leaders from the House participated in a "consultation" last Friday, before a single US shot was fired. It just seems that a few Senators & Congressmen are miffed because they weren't included, thus complaining that they weren't consulted.
Steeler Fan: Ms. Bachmann is busy in Iowa forming an exploratory committiee to decide if they want to tell her the color of the White House.
If the President had called Bachman. I would be questioning his sanity.
Depends on what he would have called her...
"Anna Molly".....Wow.......but what has that got to do with the President being accountable to Congress and the American People and in a timely manner and for entering us into a 3rd war as a Noble Peace Prize Winner?........at least that is what Jon Stewart is kinda thinking as well, who is a former Obama supporter and on cable television for the world to see and hear and twice no less!
Don't look at me. Just ask Bag Boy. He's all for the war. I'm on the fence.
I like it here, and I'm waiting for someone to come around and mend it for me. ;-)
Anna Molly Relax, the GOP is just upset because an American President might be able to say "Mission Accomplished", and it actually be true.
No doubt. Because the Mission is so poorly defined, to the point of being undefined, that whatever the outcome, Obama can say "That's what I expected to happen!", and he can claim victory.
As a Liberal, you know you're sunk when columnists like the very Liberal and Obama hack Eugene Robinson are being critical of Obama.
Source: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/03/25/a_mission_wrapped_in_confusion_109341.html
So tweet complete this little sentence for my cause I am struggling to figure it out:
The mission will be accomplished when.......
What say yo tweet? And Anna M. fence sitting aside you can help old tweet because I don't think he/she will be able to formulate a response.
But do give it a go tweet.
@Spanky: At least we know the timing of the "Misssion Accomplished" in Iraq. Now if we just would be able to find out when we could have the last US Serviceman out of the country.
For 5000 years (and counting) politics in the middle east and N. Africa has always been difficult. History proves that it is nearly impossible to rule their for any length of time. For reference, see Julius Ceasar, Alexander "the Great", Hamurabi, David, Solomon.
Great point Duh1. Particulary when you consider not just the history you cited, but also Bushs' folly in the region.
Yet here we are, having just undertaken war #3.
So Duh - if the point was a no fly, and the no fly is in effect, we are good right? No more tomahawks, no more nothing - Nato's got the ball.
Except I hear Natos only got the no fly, which kinda raises a pesky little question: what else is there?
Well Duh, what else we up to?
I find it curious that during all the foot stomping in Congress this week, no one inside Congress or in the media bothered to look behind the noise. The fact that 18 legislators were briefed before a shot was fired in Libya, they were well aware of the UN proceedings, they knew a No-Fly Zone was beings discussed yet no one questioned those 18 legislators as to why they did not convene their respective legislative bodies and inform everyone about what they had been told, allow a discussion and debate. In addition, those 18 legislators could have and should have asked questions and expressed any doubts they had when the President briefed them. Instead, it's all President Obama's fault. No, it was the fault of the 18 legislators who didn't bother to brief or inform the others--and not one reporter, pundit, or legislator has bothered to mention that fact.
Jody, you nailed it. And the media plays right along with these games that Congress continues to play. It's just repeat repeat repeat. One pundit or Congress person says something and before you know it - President Obama is the one who has to make amends.
Read this post left on BWD's blog:
As an expat living in the French–speaking part of Switzerland, let me say that the world indeed does know what’s up with this president.
During my channel surfing of the news in French in both Europe North Africa tonight I can tell you that Obama’s foreign policy is being greeted with rave reviews as being ahead of its time and a direction from the U.S. that Europe has wanted to see for quite some time. What Obama’s positions on Libya, Eygpyt, et al has done is also allow much needed voices here to flourish. Here I am speaking not only of a top–down media approach but also of a community media that gives us a sense of what could be on the ground. We may be seeing a poly–vocal foreign possibility. We are seeing voices emerge from the vantage of a human beings and their place in this world as opposed to containing people within a certain world view.
Funnily enough there is some confusion abroad not so much about what Obama is doing but people, in a very sincere sense, cannot understand the hysteria coming from certain members of the U.S. political intelligentsia. Tonight for the first since the international intervention began the discord facing Obama at home is what dominated the opening stories of the evening news. People began asking if Americans really know what is at stake in Libya in terms of human rights. Admittedly this perspective here is also being shaped by American corporate media. Europe has difficulty understanding that their is a pragmatic community intelligentsia, captured in Bwd’s website and others that also operates in the U.S.
However, you should know that people here stop me all the time at work, in the classes that I teach, or on the street saying things like “your President is really ahead of his time. “It’s a shame that he can’t become president next of (insert any European country of your choice I have heard it all.)
Within the next couple of weeks I will try to sign in with some translations of the newspaper headlines that are going on here. I am so proud to be an American living abroad right now and it is such a contrast from the Bush years.
Obama is truly an example of the future’s past inscribed in the present. The world does indeed see what’s up.
Thank you Jody!!! I have been wondering the exact same thing. But nooooo, all the media can do is repeat all the noise the Republicans are making. And of course, they wait until the President is on foreign soil, which I think is just despicable. I didn't like it when the Dixie Chicks did it with Bush (and I am no fan of his), but nonetheless it was just wrong.
If the leaders had a problem, they should have voiced those concerns right then and there. Speaker Boehner could have reconvened Congress but noooooo. It is better to criticize after the fact and while he is away on a foreign trip.
By the way, just where is Congress? On another break? How many weeks have they actually worked since January 2011? Here's an idea for Congress - instead of flapping your jaws and creating hot air, how about doing your jobs!!!!!
Join a military conflict and leave the country. Brilliant...................
Pat, Boston, MA
However, you should know that people here stop me all the time at work, in the classes that I teach, or on the street saying things like "your President is really ahead of his time. "It's a shame that he can't become president next of (insert any European country of your choice I have heard it all.)
Within the next couple of weeks I will try to sign in with some translations of the newspaper headlines that are going on here. I am so proud to be an American living abroad right now and it is such a contrast from the Bush years.
Obama is truly an example of the future's past inscribed in the present. The world does indeed see what's up.
Exactly Pat
I heart BWD. It is so refreshing. Yes, our President deserved his Nobel Prize. The "Nay" sayers deserve to have their mouth washed out. I still haven't forgot hoe the GOP squealed with delight when America lost the World Olympics.
I have lived through many Presidents even as a child I have NEVER seen such vitriol.
Really Bev.? NEVER?
Huh, because it did kinda seem like it wasn't ALWAYS wine and roses with Bush.
Hey Bev, how many urban black youths have cashed it in in Chicago so far this fine month? And gosh, but we still got a whole week to go.
Pat, Joi G. Thanks. I've been wondering all week why this seems to have escaped the whole of the MSM and this FR thread seemed the perfect time to mention it.
And Pat, appreciate the look at what Europe thinks. I just wonder what those temper tantrum throwing legislators would think IF they realized how completely foolish they look to other countries. I remember reading in one of the books about President Obama's first trip as president; one of the foreign leaders expressed concern about all the Hitler, Nazi signs and references. President Obama assured the leader that it was fine and told him that it would take a long time to explain America's conservatives.
The Republicans absolutely despised President Clinton too. I don't know if the hatred ran quite as deeply and personally as with President Obama, but with the passage of time it's easy to forget how much they truly hated Clinton.
Jody - no fly zone is in effect - what else are we doing?
What else was congress advised of?
No Genocide Zone.
Clotho
The Republicans absolutely despised President Clinton too. I don't know if the hatred ran quite as deeply and personally as with President Obama, but with the passage of time it's easy to forget how much they truly hated Clinton
Yes, that's true; they impeached Clinton. But the vitriol and polarization was not every day. Back then Rush was doing his dirt. Today you have Fox, Levin, Savage, Beck Hannity, the militia, the neo- Nazis, Jan Brewer and Sheriff Joe Apiro, the mysterious, Koch brothers the birthers, and any and every feeble minded gullible nut job. A crazy congress and a bunch of slant head republican governors.
Clinton was their Top Dog but President Obama is their whipping boy.
I seriously think they do such abusive things to hide their guilt.
Spanky-
Really Bev.? NEVER?
Huh, because it did kinda seem like it wasn't ALWAYS wine and roses with Bush.
Hey Bev, how many urban black youths have cashed it in in Chicago so far this fine month? And gosh, but we still got a whole week to go.
How do urban black youths in Hi-town effect you?
Wow!
Uh, what are the parameters of that kind of zone?
Good Golly you are really scaring me.
So is it true Paul - we really are the World Police? Just us? Anyone else joing this crusade - cause that is what it's be, right?
Paul when we headed to the Sudan? I got me a People Magizine and George Clooney says that is a bad place.
Spanky-
Hey Bev, how many urban black youths have cashed it in in Chicago so far this fine month? And gosh, but we still got a whole week to go
Spanky Spunky whatever, you don't have any problems there in SoCal San Diego with drugs, slave traders etc??? Why don't you let us know how its going there instead of your incessant questions to everyone else
Again with the names rc. Hey rc - you might not know this but my name isn't really Spanky, so calling "Spunky" isn't much of an insult, and frankly just makes you look silly.
And as for the question, what do you propose? Shall we just have every one state either a conclusion or give a narrative? Do you find that d er a discussion? Cause I wide open, what you got?
And you bet we got us some bad drug problems, linked mainly to the Mexican Cartels. Some actual border enforcement - like throwing all employers of illegals in jail for an minimum of one full year, loss of business license, and mandatory $10k fine would go long way to clear up some of the problems.
And I'm for legalizing all drugs.
Now, you want to discuss? You think you can stop with the name calling?
I bet you can.
Awwww Spanky I love when you show such Sp...Ok I won't do it :-) See it's not nice to PO people and you do a lot of that on here as you are on quite a few people's pay no mind list.
As for your assertion for locking up the employers hallelujah we actually agree on something. I have been saying this for years and if those people were fined and stopped you wouldn't have illegals coming here as there would be no jobs.
On your second point I agree on the marijuana but not the harder stuff. You see Spank we Dems and Repubs do agree on certain things. Now if we could stop all the Obama bashing and just criticize when he needs to be instead of on everything he does, this would be a country moving forward again wouldn't you agree?
Guess you missed some of my earlier comments - I was applauding Obama's tax "cuts."
As for the rest - I have said many times he's defineately getting better - outside forces are a bastard, but he needs to do something about the debt [i.e. stop spending] and energy. When he opens up drilling here, which will get gas down to $1.50 - $2.00 [after all you the guy talking about futures and speculation] then he's my guy. He's kinda given up a lot of the crap I didn't like - like the taxes and the green shoots b.s.
Why is it ok to encourage and finance drilling in Brazil but not here? It makes no sence.
And I'm not a republican, I'm a conservative. And really being ignored by the likes of Feisty and Jody has nothing to do with me and everything to do with their own capabilities, or lack there of.
Advances in oil exploration are not economically feasable at gas prices in the $1.50 - $2.00 a gallon range. Have you never heard of the concept of "Peak OIL"? At $7.00 a gallon we will have all the oil we need for the next century, should we choose to burn it is the next question. Your stated thoughts on this are an economic pipedream.
Spanky-
We will never be able to go back to those prices that is just wishful thinking. He has, as a matter of fact. They just gave 3 off shore permits in the last week to drill in the gulf. You and I have had this conversation before.
You remember I mentioned getting rid of the subsidies and tax cuts to the oil company which are old technologies and taking that money and investing it in to new technology. And I know you mentioned before that if we drilled all our oil out of the ground we would be good for 22 years. Then what? We will be in even worse shape paying more to the very countries that hate us. That's not a good plan.
10 years ago Reagan stopped every initiative that Carter started and capitulated to the oil companies and here we are in even worse shape. So yes drill and get what we can while quickly developing the new technologies in parallel.
Now what's your plan besides just drill baby drill?
Agree to disagree. Oil can easily go below $50 per barrel - all O has to do is SAY we are all in.
And that's the point - that is no plan b - no viable alternative. They are all crap. Or you got a windmill on your roof? That's suck, cause they don't work so well when it freezes.
Windmills don't work in the cold? That's news. As long as the human population on this planet stays at 6 billion, and fusion reactions remain outside our grasp, OIL will never return to the $50/barrel mark.
Of course you disagree as you can't see any further than the tip of your nose like the rest of the bo backwards standstill REpubs. Spanky your line of thinking is off base we already invaded for oil and we 50,000 troops there in Iraq. I guess you and the rest just can't accept that the president did this to save lives and it isn't terrible. Please keep up the fear over facts the low intelligence voters love it.
What is this "update" spin by the Liar-in-Chief OBAMA still needs to get Congress to authorize the United States to go to war
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Did Obama download a new "fire Tomahawk missle" APP for his BlackBerry he just could not WAIT to use? Does THAT explain EVERYTHING?
In a half hour, twenty comments frantically defending the President.
The moonbat brigades are a mite sensitive on this subject, perhaps.
As you so dearly call them Moonbats. They are not defending, they are stating that those people in congress were indeed notified. So what is your point??
Being KINETIC is the new fad.
OBAMA's sensitive on the subject:
“The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation”
-- Obama ("LIAR-IN-CHIEF") to the Boston Globe in 2007.
______________________________________________________________________________________
With evidence like this impeachment proceedings should represent a procedural formality
One person's "frantically defending" is another's "overwhelming approval and support", I guess.
Under the War Powers Act passed by Congress, the President has the authority to take military action for short periods of time for a variety of reasons without approval of Congress as long as that president informs Congress of the intent--which was done. And each time, Congress gets their collective noses out of joint and makes loud noises. Ronald Reagan and many other presidents did it so why wasn't he or they impeached?
Nice interpretaion Jody!
Now be honest - did you actually read the Act?
Humanitarian Alert. Calling Obama to the rescue. Civilians being killed in Syria. Oh, maybe these protestors are not cililian enough to merit interference. What if they ask for assistance? Will Greece help?
Humanitarian aid to Libya? That doesn't wash. Like you said, if the US is running around giving humanitarian protection to killings going on around the world, we better get China on the line, we're going to need a lot more money. Get rid of Gaddafi? That doesn't wash either? He's been there 42 years, 23 since Lockerbie, retribution should be more timely you would think. Pay back to the Brits and France for helping in the Gulf War I and Gulf War II, and who get most of their oil from Libya? Doubtful again, Obama doesn't owe Britian or France any favors, that was the other guy before him. Taking sides in a civil war? No again, Gaddafi is bad, we know that, but are the "rebels" any better? Libya a danger to the region? Hardly.
So maybe on this call Obama can fill in Congress on what the point of all this is? He sure jumped in quick and with both feet once that UN resolution was passed. Hardly had time to whip off an e-mail to anyone in Congress letting them know the missiles were about to fly.
And what is this "principal actor" and "kinetic military action" language the White House is cooking up? This isn't a game Obama. It's not some college assignment a professor puts out to get a reaction. Obama needs to be a little more serious about what he's doing. The man thought so little about going to war as to go on vacation while it was beginning.
Obama has some explaining to do.
I'm notta NoItAll like yall on the Right are, but Speculation says, maybe Iran is the answer to Syria's Protest.
Can't be Hezzbolah, because the Great Ronnie Reagun put them into the Garbage pile of History.
Wait, you Now say Reagun did'nt!
O well, back to crawlin thru these Tubes!
Gosh, I hope the teleprompter isn't broken.
There's an APP for that !
Please, somebody who likes to cut and paste please post Obama's statement from December 2007. The content of his statement is exactly the opposite of what he is now defending. Clearly he says one thing and does another. What does he believe? Was he just naive and unprepared to be President? How many times will his own words come back and haunt him?
In his 2007 comment, he was speaking about "unilateral", this is multi-lateral. The word "unilateral" used by President Obama seems to be left out of the discussion or ignored but there's a difference and taking words out of context to push a story or raise doubt, is simply disingenuous.
Tony C President Obama's words never haunt him, but only inspire Americans that understand his vision. He is doing what he ran on, unlike republicans, and doing other big things at the same time. Cut and paste all you want, the majority of Americans voted for Obama and we will again.
You keep thinking that. I sure hope all the democrats think the same thing. He won by a few percentages points due to independents. Doubtful he will carry those folks next time after his poor performance. He is a good talker. Won't be enough this time. He has a record now Can't hide behind voting present. His beliefs are now in the open.
There are 2 words that will haunt President Obamas chances of reelection and those 2 words are NANCY PELOSI. All republicans have to do is remind voters of her stupidity and he is done. It is what cost dems this past election. I won't repeat her statements and you all know them or the fact that she lied about knowing about the enhanced interrogation techniques. Oh the CIA is lying I was at that meeting but I didn't hear that. That was a flat out lie and no defense for it.
Tony C, again President Obama is doing what he ran on. He's much more than talk, just listen to your republican friends crying "big government take over!". Anyway what republican is running against the President? Republicans know when the time comes to debate the President, game over, republicans lose.
Bob-1887910
And if the "moonbats" avoided the subject of Libya, which was the failed meme being toyed with just this morning, you'd say that showed they were a mite sensitive on the subject, too.
Can you imagine if Bush went and spoke with just a few members of congress after bombs fell in Iraq? The libs on this site would be apoplectic. Instead, this is viewed as responsible and reasonable. Baloney.
Lies:
Can you imagine what the Connies would say if Obama told Congress a pack of lies to dupe them into backing a war that never should have been fought the way that Bush did?
Two wrongs don't make a right.... Americans are waking up and not buying the "Bush did it, so it is ok" line anymore...
You are correct. This cry baby stuff is drawing to an end. Mommy, he started it. Not me! It is his fault! as an excuss to fail at your job is over. Americans are tired of this lack of "ownership" of the job from a President. This is poor leadership quality. Period.
ONE wrong doesn't make a right.
If you guys are not buying the Bush line, why did the first post even bring it up?!
@Tony, I'm no fan of Obama, but don't most politicians/Presidents do this...campaign on issues and then do opposite once they are voted in. So I'm not sure why people are surprised. Most just talk a good game, do what their party says and continue to do what their party says once they get in.
Yes they do! Howver, we criticise all Presidents for those mistakes and broken promises. See if the liberals out here will criticise Obama for his broken promises and mistakes. What you will hear is that it is someone else's fault, never Obama.
Fool us once, but not twice. People who actually pay federal income tax still have the advantage 54 to 46. If this guy stays in office, look out tax rates. The 54% will prevail. Time for real change
@Tony, yes hopefully there will be someone who won't make this mess bigger. But Congress on both sides are not much help either.
Anna & Beverly: I can't wait till Israel is finally defeated. Shria law is in place. And man rules this earth. See all the news photos see how few women are involved. We got you.
Last time I looked. Women in Muslim countries do not have equal rights with men. Women are second class citizens and are treated like a half a man in a court. Where is the outcry from women groups in the USA?
..Here is a good one: As Commander-in-Chief, I will never hesitate to defend this nation, but I will only send our troops into harm's way with a clear mission and a sacred commitment to give them the equipment they need in battle and the care and benefits they deserve when they come home.
Barack Hussein Obama
um..... clear mission?
No one has been able to figure out the mission so far.
The mission is clear............to keep Kaddaffy, and you the obtuse, guessing.
I am obtuse for wanting to know why we are invading Libya when millions of people were slaughtered in Africa and Obama did nothing?
You are obtuse, prolly because your mother was a stupid whore, but i digress, which you prove by not knowing the difference between enforcing a no-fly and no genocide zone , and an "invasion", which we are not engaged in..
Your reply speaks for itself, Paul.
"No one has been able to figure out the mission so far."
Gee, I am a receptionist and I understand the mission in Libya. But then, I listened to the President and Secretary of State explain what's happening, and I don't watch FOX News. Maybe that's the key?
I have a better idea. Stop watching tv for your news altogether. Do you really believe what you see on the news? I guess I have been the ignorant one all along. I need to start watching tv. That's where the intelligent people get their news.
It won't help you, Patrick, you're too obtuse.
Try looking it up in the URBAN dictionary, dumbass.
x
"I've asked you all here to say that, while you all were on vacation and avoiding addressing the crisis of not having a federal budget, I was forced to address an international crisis on my own. I got an international coalition together and we created a "no-fly" zone in Libya.(Question from Congress) You are right, I wasn't actually here at the time, but a coalition was formed.(Question) No, I didn't call any of you because I didn't want to disturb your vacations and there wasn't time....(Question) I mis-spoke. I was leading the air strikes, but the US was not leading the coalition air strikes- it's different. (Question) Well, the military was off the coast, but we didn't want them to pick up the civilians. Anyways, the missile strikes fulfilled their mission. (Question) I heard that it was over $100M in missiles, but I immediately called for the US to pull out of the operation when the cost reports started coming in. (Question) I'm sure that the other countries can figure out how to "finish" the job. Atleast we are out of there- mission accomplished."
The Presidents reactions, to the "POLITICAL RESPONSIBILITY OF HIS OFFICE" are many days late and far to many dollars short. If you were to add the dollars spent(100 million/day), one would be appalled as to this administrations lack of CONSTITUTIONAL protocols in terms of presenting his agenda of "War" effort to Congress. Another ego ridden decision exercised before facts are brought to bare. THE UN is not the United States Congress!
He is trying to recapture his dwindling independent base. The problem is, he lost half of us when his people started labelling Clinton supporters "racist." You cannot continually play the race card without it coming back to bite you.
You were never an Obama supporter.
wow, all I need to do is just let you guys post to prove my point :) This is why we are going to be defeated by either an independent or republican next November.
We don't need douchebags like you, please vote for Romney. Obama in a landslide.
I am used to it... I worked for his campaign after he took the nomination from Clinton. What ultimately turned me off completely was being labelled a "racist" repeatedly for originally supporting Hillary Clinton. It sickens me that some of his supporters try to mention him in the same sentance as Martin Luther King. Obama is nothing at all like Martin Luther King.
Correct. He hasn't been shot down by the CIA, as yet.
I'm still waiting for someone to answer my question yesterday on just how we define what is an acceptable humanitarian mission and what is not.
That information is only available in secret meetings. You know, like the meetings with lobbists during the healthcare reform meeting. Obama won't release those transcripts either. I don't think you will see that information on C Span just like the bills before they become law.
When families and children die and they have no food and are being killed by an aggresssive leader.Not a country's unhappiness with their leader/leaders in which then the people opposed to their leaders start to push them out for change in a cultural struggle.
Or Cheney's Energy task force meeting, divvying up IRAQ's oil, prior to 9/11.
Suzy
Like you care about humanitarian missions; you are just using world events as an excuse to attack the current President of the United States. Republicans are sooo patriotic.
and independents and moderate democrats and anyone at all who disagrees with him is bad and racist, right, Amy?
Suzy
It is a good question and in my opinion a very hard one to answer. I would assume every respondent would probably have a different opinion.
An example of an easy decision for when to render humanitarian aid would be to help survivors of a natural disaster, earthquake, famine tsunami etc.
Where it does get hard to decide is when you talk about a humanitarian, military intervention. Obviously this type of intervention entails entering another country with the goal of protecting non-combatants from harm. I would think that if you enter a country to help one faction or the other arming or fighting for them, it no longer can be called a humanitarian effort. Rather it would be considered an escalation by siding with one party in the conflict.
The United Nations Charter 2(4) states: ‘All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state’.
The UN does grant resolutions for members to interfere with soverign nations in some cases to act in areas of humanitarian crisis as was the case here.
I guess it is a judgment call where the interventionist must decide if the crisis on a human scale is worth helping. Often it appears to me that national interests play a big role in deciding whether action take place. Perhaps that is the reason for intervention in Libya but not in areas like Sudan or areas like the Ivory Coast.
Amy, contrary to what you seem to want to believe, I have no personal vendetta against President Obama. I do fundamentally disagree with his politics but there have been several actions I've actually agreed with. And I've said so publicly when that's happened. I've been asking the humanitarian missions question since Clinton was in office for heaven's sake! And that's when I thought I was a liberal.
Yellowdog, thank you for an actual reasoned response. Amy could learn something from you I think. I am entirely willing to admit that the question is in part flippant because the answer from the chirping masses is always "when my guy suggests it it's OK but when your guy does it is a big bunch of stupidness" (to paraphrase, of course), but at its heart, it is asked out of genuine curiousity. There are any number of humanitarian missions that we could opt to intervene in militarily but we don't- usually with a reasoning along the lines of staying out of someone else's civil war. This makes sense to me and, coincidentally, is what makes Libya so confounding. Why is the UN, and subsequently the US, getting involved in a civil war in Lybia but not in Isreal or Ivory Coast or any of a long list of other places. I honestly don't know if I believe military intervention is good or bad in Libya but I do know that it's hard to have an informed opinion on the matter when there's no real communication from our President as to why we're doing it. Maybe I'll agree with the action, maybe I won't, but if it's tax dollars that are paying for it, don't we deserve the details so we can decide that for ourselves?
Come on Amy - say you are sorry to Suzy. :)
Call it what it is...oh wait we don't know...I know this it is not humanitarian reasons.
Sarcasm is the finest complement. So, Bev and Anna here's to you. I agree so much with your comments. You 2 must be the smartest women on the face of this planet.
Hey Jim, How do you like this for sarcasm:
Republicans have really shown us Democrats how to be patriotic while in the opposition party.
Republicans have certainly united behind the President on this support-democracy- in the Middle East thing-y.
I'm surprised some on the Right have used this crisis to score points in the media.
It was great Sarah Palin resisted criticizing the President while she was on foreign soil.
I am really interested in learning more about the twelve potential candidates in the Republican presidential primary.
Turn off the tv. Use google. Amy, you will feel incredibly liberated when you shed yourself of the democrat/republican label. You are being manipulated.
@Patrick until people stop siding with one or the other we can't bring about change since we are divided.
Has anyone noticed that the first few posts are pro-Obma and pro-war in Libya and heavily voted up? Then after that, it is overwhelmingly against, like everywhere else right now on newsvine...This is totally opposed to the mood of America, and any recent newsvine articles as well. I think this article is a PR piece that will have a few of the original Pro Obama posts featured, with maybe one of the 99 percent anti-Obama posts featured.
Have you forgotten that Kadaffi was the culprit responsible for that Lockerbee bombing. Maybe this is the only way to provide justice. Somewhat likened to the arrest of OJ in California who was found not guilty of a murder he surely committed.
TA
You've got your finger somewhere, all right; but I am pretty sure that's NOT a pulse.
Just sayin'.
troops firing on citizens in Syria -- time for Obama to bomb a SIXTH muslim country.
GO GET 'EM COWBOY!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyone have newsvine try to download an executable file onto their pc?
So far he hasn't stood on a carrier announcing the war is over. That President was a real Cowboy!