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AP
President Obama arrives from a Latin America tour with his family, front right to back, daughters Malia and Sasha, first lady Michelle Obama, and mother-in-law Marian Robinson, at Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland on Wednesday.
No red carpet rolled out for the president in Washington … Obama’s Doctrine of pragmatism … Day 6 of ‘days not weeks’ … Obama takes his licks from the late-night shows … Gingrich’s no-fly flop … Huckabee, Bachmann in Iowa, Newt in Carolinas, Ron Paul in NH.
From NBC's Chuck Todd, Domenico Montanaro, and Ali Weinberg
*** Welcome back, Mr. President: On his Latin America trip, the red carpet may have been rolled out (literally) for President Obama, but there were no ceremonial trumpets playing for him when he returned to Washington. He's facing a growing bipartisan chorus of criticism from Congress. Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) sent a letter minutes after President Obama landed with what Boehner says are a slew of unanswered questions regarding a "clearly defined mission." And House DEMOCRATIC leader Nancy Pelosi put out her own statement of support that wasn't exactly ringing; It may wind up sending two messages -- one to the White House that House Democrats are on the verge of fracturing on this issue, and one to skeptical members that she's still giving the president some benefit of the doubt and they should, too. What it means essentially is that Pelosi is saying she hears both sides, telling members to keep in mind that the U.S. is preventing a humanitarian disaster, but that the president needs to keep Congress informed or the problems will get bigger.
*** You can’t always get what you want: The White House maintains they have consulted Congress the entire time and plan to continue to do so. Congressional leaders, however, on BOTH sides of the aisle, believe they've been more "informed" -- NOT consulted. And catch this line from White House national security adviser Ben Rhodes in the White House briefing yesterday responding to criticism that the White House doesn’t have congressional support: “First of all, we would like congressional support.” “Would like?” An admission (or Freudian slip) that the White House doesn’t have it?
*** Not very doctrinaire: We wrote of the “Obama Doctrine” last week and how the president’s action on Libya are fairly consistent with the broad themes of his foreign policy that he laid out in April of 2009. Yesterday on MSNBC’s Hardball with Chris Matthews, Deputy National Security Adviser Denis McDonough was asked about the president’s “doctrine” and where the line is -- why Libya and not Bahrain or Yemen, for example. Here’s what he said, in part: “[T]he president`s doctrine is not an ideology. He’s not an ideological guy. He’s very pragmatic. And so he’s for -- as he said in the Situation Room, he’s for what works. … What I can tell you is that when we’re presented with the kind of language that Khaddafy presented, seeing the kind of history that he brings to this kind of threat, and knowing that this is a moment of great opportunity in that region, he thought it was a good opportunity for us to take.” McDonough also said the president will “make sure that we can hand off to our allies to run this no-fly zone in the days ahead.” We’re now on Day 6 of “days not weeks.” Tomorrow, it becomes a week. By the way, in an interview right after his TV hits, McDonough told NBC News that the main difference between Libya and the situations in Bahrain and Yemen is that in the latter two countries, a reform process (even if not as fast as some want) has begun. That's never been the case, he says, in Libya.
*** Late-night licks: We warned a week ago that this was possible and here it is. Jokes about Libya and a perceived mixed message, his overseas travel, and, yes, Obama’s basketball bracket have all made it into the comedy mainstream -- from Leno and Letterman to Jimmy Fallon, Jimmy Kimmel, and even the usually Obama-friendly Jon Stewart. Here’s a sampling this week, per our friends at The Hotline:
- Fallon: "Everyone's been following march madness, but it's been a few days without any games. It's been so boring, President Obama said he actually wants to focus on situations in Libya and Japan."
- Leno: “We know more about President Obama's basketball picks than we do about his Libya plan right now.” … “You remember when President Obama ran for president saying we couldn't fight two wars and he would change our policy? Well he has, now we're in three wars. Ok, we're in three wars. Now I guess you know why...that's why they call him President O-bam-a.”
- More Leno: “As you know President Obama took a lot of heat for filling out his NCAA tournament bracket thing there and I guess they thought he should be focusing on more important things. Anyway, here is filling out the Men’s bracket. Okay, you probably saw that. Okay, then after this he filled out the Women’s bracket and if he would have stopped there he would have been okay. But then he went on to, here take a look, to do the Pee-Wee basketball. And then he switched over to TV doing the Biggest Loser. And the last one, Sexiest Man Alive. There's no reason he needs to be involved in that.
- Stewart: "We're at war!? Again? I don't want to be a pain in the a--, but don't we already have two wars. You know, wars aren't kids, where you don't have to pay attention to the youngest one 'cause the older two will take care of it." *** UPDATE *** On cue, the Republican National Committee sent out a video wrapping this:
*** Washington echo chamber… or going mainstream? Many times, the White House argues that this echo-chamber criticism is more of a Washington obsession and not something that regular people are paying attention to. But when late night goes with it, it gets mainstreamed. Bottom line: The White House has a short-term P.R. problem on Libya that, at this point, only gets solved by the president’s pledges coming to fruition: mainly, the handover to international forces to enforce the no-fly zone; and perhaps, more importantly, that they remove Khaddafy. By the way, the White House has no plans for any primetime or Oval Office address on Libya anytime soon, at least that's what they said yesterday.
*** Speaking of muddled messages: In the past two days, Newt Gingrich has been clear that he thinks the Libya no-fly zone was a mistake. Yet, on March 7 he seemed to express support for a no-fly zone in Libya. The New York Times’ Shear: “President Obama should establish a no-fly zone over Libya ‘this evening,’ [Gingrich] said on Fox News. “All we have to do is suppress his air force, which we could do in minutes,” he said. Yet on TODAY yesterday, Gingrich said, “I would not have intervened. I think there were a lot of other ways to affect Qaddafi. I think there are a lot of other allies in the region we could have worked with. I would not have used American and European forces.” That won this headline from the Times: “Gingrich Calls For No-Fly Zone, Then Attacks It.” The Seattle Post-Inetlligencer: “Gingrich: Flip-Flop on No Fly.” Then, he attempted to deflect in a “clarification” on his Facebook page with a post titled, “My Position on Libya.” His opening doesn’t address his own apparent inconsistency, but the president’s: “It is deeply troubling that there is so much confusion, lack of foresight, and little resolve coming from the President and his administration about what our mission and goals must be in the Libya engagement.” Conservative blog Hot Air, for one, isn’t necessarily buying it. By the way, it’s never a good thing that after a controversy you have to put out a statement titled, “My position on” whatever that topic was.
*** Gates in Israel: A day after a bombing in Jerusalem, Defense Secretary Gates traveled from Cairo, Egypt, to Israel, where he meets and holds a news conference with Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak. He will also meet with President Shimon Peres at 9:30 am ET. … President Obama has a light public schedule today: He lunches with Vice President Biden at 12:45 pm ET and then meets with Treasury Secretary Geithner at 2:15 pm ET.
*** On the trail: Mike Huckabee and Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) are in Iowa, where they will address the Pastors’ Policy Briefing, a meeting hosted by the group Iowa Renewal Project, in Des Moines. … Later in the day, Bachmann holds a Facebook town hall from the Hawkeye State. … Newt Gingrich heads to South Carolina, where he will address the Greenville County Republican Women’s Club. He is slated to take questions afterward at noon ET, and then heads to North Carolina, where he will speak to the Wake County Republican convention in Raleigh at 6:00 pm ET… and Rep. Ron Paul gives a speech at the University of New Hampshire at 3:30 pm ET.
Countdown to continuing resolution’s expiration: 15 days
Countdown to Iowa GOP straw poll: 141 days
Countdown to Election Day 2011: 229 days
Countdown to the Iowa caucuses: 319 days
* Note: When the IA caucuses take place depends on whether other states move up
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Newt Gringrich has graduated with honors from the McCain Institute of Flip-Flopping! In this day & age of multiple media, wouldn't you think by now, these potential Presidential candidates, would figure out that EVERY word you speak is traceable & on record for eternity?
Further EVIDENCE that the Teapublican Party will say whatever it is they believe their 'base' wants to hear, regardless of whether or not it's realistic!
Indeed astonishing!
Here's a shovel Newtie – keep on digging!
Well, it's nice that everyone is joking about war. All the rich white guys especially on tv. It's easy for them to do. What do they care about anything? Especially Leno. Doesn't he have like a hundred antique- million dollar cars just sitting in his garage?
"Even though some villagers were hit by American shrapnel, one gamely told an Associated Press reporter that he bore no grudges. Then, on Wednesday in Benghazi, the major city in eastern Libya whose streets would almost certainly be running with blood now if it weren’t for the American-led military intervention, residents held a “thank you rally.” They wanted to express gratitude to coalition forces for helping save their lives."
I'd ask how seeking (and getting in less than 36 hours) a UNANIMOUS UN vote to form a coalition force to protect the rebels is "allowing the UN to dictate policy", but I don't think it would make much difference. Not like you'll actually present a cogent answer or anything.
Of course, if Obama charge in unilaterally with 10K troops and no UN input, you'd be cheering his name, right? RIGHT?
That is just wonderful Pat. No grudges is what we want.
True Ugly American,
In reading you rants and bitching, I don't think you know what you stand for. I think you are one of these folks that can't stand it that the President is smarter than you and any of the people in the Republican circus that want commit to running for President.
The Bama , the man with the hee-haw voice is back from Rio where he skiddadled whilst the rest of the world is burning about his flapping ears. Now, he is off to Ireland to drink some beer.
Job 1 perhaps you can run with him to Ireland and I hope he stays there.
"...wouldn't you think by now, these potential Presidential candidates, would figure out that EVERY word you speak is traceable & on record for eternity?"
ya, Feisty, for once you are right.
In Portsmouth NH (great place to visit) in 2007 VP Biden answers a question from a foam spewing moonbat:
QUESTIONER: "I have a great fear that say you're elected as the nominee of the party. Next August sometime during the summer, Dick Cheney (You) and George (Barack) are going to bomb Iran (Libya)."
Biden: .....But let me tell you, I have written an extensive legal memorandum with the help of a group of legal scholars who are sort of a stable of people, the best-known constitutional scholars in America, because for 17 years I was chairman of the Judiciary Committee.
"I asked them to put together [for] me a draft, which I'm now literally riding between towns editing, that I want to make clear and submit to the Untied States Senate pointing out the president has no authority to unilaterally attack Iran (LIBYA). And I want to make it clear, I want it on the record, and I want to make it clear, if he does, as chairman of the foreign relations committee and former chair of the judiciary committee, I will move to impeach him."
I've got to stop watching broadcast news. In the past month, we were treated to coverage of Egypt's revolution by journalists lauding their bravery, last night, the coverage of Libya was all about how "silly" the rebels are, how child-like and dependent on our intervention. The tone was almost that the Libyans don't deserve to be free, because they are so silly.
Then Chuck Todd, (no longer in the running to be the next Walter Cronkite), intoned that President had just gotten back from his "vacation" (I thought that was a trip to strengthenties to Latin America?), cue a shot of the First Family disembarking and The President looking just tooo relaxed for Todd's taste.
I know this will fall on deaf ears, but I am really, really sick of American journalists and politicians, manipulating my feelings, constructing "story lines," telling me what I think before I have made up my mind, pretending that the world is a stage they get to write the script for. No historical perspective, no connection to reality, no thoughtfulness or introspection, no patience, no adherence to basic values. Just hysteria and broken thinking. Time for a media diet, I'm afraid. Time to turn off Meet The Press and the 6:30 news and just: go local.
“Buyers Remorse” is alive and well in Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania.
In Ohio the new Quinnipiac Poll shows Governor Kasich with only a 30% approval rate and a disapproval rate of 46%. 54% think repealing “Collective Bargaining” is a bad idea and 55% want the Governor to find another way to balance the budget instead of on the backs of the Middle Class. This is the same Governor that while claiming the State is broke, this week proposes a bill to remove $229 Million Dollars in revenues out of the State Budget into the hands of “Private Companies” for liquor sales. Now Ohio does not have a recall option but they can but bills on a referendum come November and the people will vote them up or down. This has the GOP/TP worried because when you have unpopular bills coming up for a referendum a lot of democrats will come out to vote and vote for elected officials while they are there. 6 Republican State Senators are holding their breath come November.
In Pennsylvania Governor Tom Corbett gave over 830 Million in Tax Cuts to corporations and the wealthy while trying to raise taxes on the poor. A Franklin Marshall College Poll say his performance is at 52% say poor or fair and only 31% say good or excellent. Only 31% think he is doing a good to excellent job.
In Michigan the “Despot” Governor Rick Snyder who made drastic cuts to education while giving a 1.8 Billion (with a “B”) income and property tax cuts to corporations and the rich also while increasing the taxes on Seniors and the poor and giving himself “GOD” like powers has an approval rating of 33%, disapproval rating of 50% according to Public Policy Polling.
In Wisconsin where the GOP/TP thought that the repeal of “Collective Bargaining” was going to be a slam dunk saw it become a National Movement with huge rallies across all 50 States. Governor Walker won his election by 6% points. If the election were to be held today he would loose 52% to 45%. In other words today he would loose the election by 7% making a total 13% swing.
The American People are tired of the lies that the GOP/TP has been selling. They are tired of having their rights trampled on like abortion rights, voting rights, collective bargaining rights, etc.
They want Jobs, a Stable Economy and improved education, not just idle rhetoric and more broken promises.
So, True, if the no-fly zone was right when Gingrich was first "for" it, then isn't it also right now, regardless of who "dictated" it? Why is Gingrich criticizing President Obama for doing the right thing?
It couldn't be that he wants to score political points, could it?
I, for one, am not worried. The more bozos the better. As for the rest, when one of the clowns "forms a coherent stance" on ANYTHING, I'll worry about it. I doubt that worry will interfere with my South American vacation later this year.
FR, Sorry Red, but the media only recognises progressive flip flops, conservatives ones are ignored.
Each of these Republican governors inherited incredible and massive economic problems from their Democratic predecessors. It will take time to unwind the problems the incompetent Democrats left for the Republicans to clean up. The Democrats have destroyed the job markets for each of their states, the new Republican leadership has the difficult task of cutting the bloated Democratic budgets while at the same time encouraging businesses to thrive in their states.
I wasn't aware Biden was VP in 2007!
Thanks for the info & here's a 'shovel' for you as well, keep on digging!
There's got to be 'gold' somewhere out there! ;o)
Hi Navy,
Again, another Great Post. I hear that the laws in Michigan will allow the citizens to begin the recall of Governor Snyder as early as June of this year.
You mean the like President Obama inherited from his Republican predecessor JoAnna?
Thanks for the reminder!
You might want to consider a little vacation yourself, you appear to be losing that 'magic' touch of yours! ;o)
Please Insult Me
Anna Molly can speak for herself, but I just have to comment. You should spent a day reading Anna Molly. She brings her expertise and clarity rather than begging for machoism. In fact, if you read one sentence or paragraph you'll find it makes more sense than a month of your pathetic begging.
Amy, Chucky T. thinks it makes'em look Smart by saying such things. In my opinion, it only emphasizes just how Stupid he actually is. He's a Righty & plays to the Fear & Stupidity of Nonsense, that they havta have to survive thru the day. As for Domenico, I think he's a Middle of the Road kinda person, but working under Chuck T. hasta do what his Boss says, which is put Stupid Nonsense in print to atrract readers from the Right, to this site.
Mixed, I could also Stereotype folk's from Many, many states, but I choose not to go there. Most Citified Folks would'nt know how to Live if Not being able to walk down the street to a 711 anytime of the day.
But by all means, Stereotype away tho, i'll be growing my veggies while most of ya Pay out the A$$ for'em!
You Betcha!
No comment necessary beyond highlighting the first paragraph below.
From Politico:
Unanswered questions about Libya
By: Glenn Thrush and Abby Phillip
March 24, 2011 04:31 AM EDT
It’s hard to find a precedent for a president ordering U.S. military forces into action, then heading off for a five-day tour of Latin America, but that’s just what President Barack Obama did when he approved the deployment of air and naval assets to establish a no-fly zone over Libya.
His homecoming gift is a barrage of questions about the military action Obama aides refuse to label a “war.”
Obama was asked the most obvious question – what is the U.S. endgame in Libya? – several times during his trip. His answers seemed deliberately obtuse: To stop a humanitarian crisis and, hopefully, drive Muammar Qadhafi from power, while at the same time ceding leadership of the effort to countries with a direct regional stake in the outcome – France and Arab League nations – sooner rather than later.
I was going to respond to Insult, but it would be a waste of time.
I hope all the FR lefty liberal regulars were tuned in to last night’s NBC Nightly News. I never watch what Sarah appropriately calls the “lamestream’ media news shows, but, I happened to channel surf just at the right moment last night. Chuck Todd was reporting on Barry’s trip to sunny South America when he experienced a major Freudian slip. He said “President Obama cut short his vacation, … um, trip to return early to Washington.”
OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"You can't blame me the French are in charge." -- Barack Obama
Joe in Albany
Chuck Todd was reporting on Barry’s trip to sunny South America when he experienced a major Freudian slip. He said “President Obama cut short his vacation, … um, trip to return early to Washington.
And that just thrilled you. Pathetic!!!!
Please Insult Me!
You asked, so i will Insult you.
You are a disgusting ,sniping, troll who posts on a blog, making fun of someone else for posting on a blog!!
I am sure you consider your entry a "WIN".
In fact, if you read one sentence or paragraph you'll find it makes more sense than a month of your pathetic begging.
_____________________________________________________
Now THAT'S Hillaryously FUNNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bev talking about sentences and paragraphs the make sense. I'm sure that anyone who has read a few of Bev's posts will get the joke.
Job1
True Ugly American,
In reading you rants and bitching, I don't think you know what you stand for. I think you are one of these folks that can't stand it that the President is smarter than you and any of the people in the Republican circus that want commit to running for President.
---------------------------
I'm going to go out on a limb and say 'it' apparently STANDS for hating President Obama. I believe 'it' also sits for that position and probably sleeps with that position, too.
Just a hunch.
And his answer was: "How the hell do I know, I'm on vacation."
Nicely said, USN. For the Conservative Movement electoral victories weren't a call for government that works but a call to destroy government entirely. A call to accelerate the redistribution of wealth from the middle to the top. A call to enact authoritarian policies wherever the majority may disagree with their ideology. A call to cement that authoritarian reality by making sure only the "right people" vote, stacking the courts without apology, and destroying any potential enemies. It's an ugly reality.
Each of those newly elected republican governors inherited balanced budgets with probable budget shortfalls for the next budget. Their solution was to create an even larger and more damaging budget shortfall by decreasing state revenues through tax cuts for the rich and famous. No business will be attracted to states where services are poor, where education is poor, and the qualilty of life is poor regardless of how low the state business tax rate is. The problem for the right is they see everything through the prism of taxes. In addition, if states continue down the path of poor services, poor education and poor quality of life--they will lose people who seek a better life in states which offer better education, better services and higher wages.
Bev, thank you so much for the kind words, but don't be so hard on Please Insult Me!. After all, he does have a point, under all that hair. ;-)
Again, thank you for the support, but it's okay, really, really. I probably deserved it.
Well, I see the FIRST READ Marxists are at it again. The so-called tea bag republicans are all, each and every one or them a "Marxist", a GROUCHO Marxist. See if the little ditty from 1932's "HORSE FEATHERS" doesn't strike a familiar tone.
I don't know what they have to say,
It makes no difference anyway,
Whatever it is, I'm against it.
No matter what it is or who commenced it,
I'm against it.
Your proposition may be good,
But let's have one thing understood,
What it is, I'm against it,
And even when you've changed it or condensed it,
I'm against it.
Groucho Marxism, sorta sums up the day to day arguments by NO JO, JOJO, Ugly American and Bob 18, etc. doesn't it. Isn't it cool when art imitates life, and vice versa.
Say the secret word and win a hundred dollars.
As Jerk-Off Joey demonstrates daily, it don't take much ;o)
My 0.02 on Chuck Todd - I respected him & his expertise with the numbers during the 2008 election. When Tim Russert passed away, I thought he would have made an excellent replacement.
Since then, it's been all down hill starting with when he called President Obama 'stupid' on Morning Jerk!
It's about time Chuck tucked his bias slip back in, no doubt, his mentor Tim would not be pleased with his behavior these days!
JoAnnaSmith1
Each of these Republican governors inherited incredible and massive economic problems from their Democratic predecessors. It will take time to unwind the problems the incompetent Democrats left for the Republicans to clean up. The Democrats have destroyed the job markets for each of their states, the new Republican leadership has the difficult task of cutting the bloated Democratic budgets while at the same time encouraging businesses to thrive in their states.
-------------------------------
unh unh unh,...and a hearty OH NO YOU DIDN'T! Please, don't forget YOUR VERY OWN RULES OF ENGAGEMENT:
You aren't allowed to blame the PREVIOUS guy for the shambles. But just in case you've changed your mind - let me go ahead and point out that the MASSIVE FAILURE that was W Bush - that WRECKED the FEDERAL government, shockingly had octopus arms and did quite a number on STATE and LOCAL Economies, as well.
I'm sure that concept can't be TOO difficult for you to grasp.
Apparently someone isn't clear on parody and sarcasm. A little too complex of a concept for you?
Now Clara, off to war with you and the rest of your Liberal warmonger friends. Don't forget your helmet dear.
Is THAT what that was supposed to be?
When you have to clarify a 'punch' line, your parody is an EPIC FAIL, much like most of what you propagate... hon!
Wow,
the Libbies are pissed this morning. just heading into the kitchen to make some Popcorn. anyone else want any
US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired
Greeat post! There is buyer's remorse in Maine as well. Governor LePage was elected with 38% of the vote and he is governing as if he had a mandate to repeal environmental laws that were passed with bipartisan support since the 80's, a mandate to cut taxes for the wealthiest ($2,700 cut for people making over $350,000 a year), while reducing benefits and pay for Maine's teachers (the average retired teacher in Maine currently lives on $19,000 a year.) The guy started his term insulting the NAACP on Martin Luther King Day! I will say, his base loves him. Like the 20% who approved of George Bush by the end of his term.
Only if it's organic. ;-)
Feisty:
Funny the mushrooms claim they inherited big deficits from previous Democratic Governors. More spin which does not address the issue each of these governors gave huge Tax Cuts in the hundreds of Millions of dollars while claiming they were broke. Just more hypocrisy from the right and trying to cover up their lies to their own people. Many also applying huge cuts to Education as well. I do not think that is what the people voted for. Huge tax cuts to corporations and the rich, destruction of educational programs for the Middle Class and the poor. They lied and got caught. Now they are trying to back peddle. All 4 of those States and many others made the deficit worse not better. That is what happens when you have to pay back the Special Interest groups that bought these politicians.
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL
Is THAT what that was supposed to be?
When you have to clarify a 'punch' line, your parody is an EPIC FAIL, much like most of what you propagate... hon!
-----------------------------------------------
Exactly, Feisty! Now after lo these many months we're supposed to just magically make the leap that she has a sense of HUMOR? Umm, I don't THINK so! You can't waddle around here day in and day out with a stick up your posterior and then wake up on March 24th and say - You know, I am going to make an asinine remark and it will be OBVIOUS that I am using parody (which this wasn't) and sarcasm (you mean you ADMIT Bush was an epic failure and CAUSED the National Crash?)
I'd say if you don't speak fluently in parody and sarcasm, you really shouldn't take it out of the toy box for a trial run with an expert such as myself on board. Because you're bound to get b!tch slapped for the failed effort!
Nicholas Kristof of The New York Times argues that under the U.N. doctrine's "responsibility to protect," U.S. action in Libya is necessary:
Doubts are reverberating across America about the military intervention in Libya. Those questions are legitimate, and the uncertainties are huge. But let’s not forget that a humanitarian catastrophe has been averted for now and that this intervention looks much less like the 2003 invasion of Iraq than the successful 1991 gulf war to rescue Kuwait from Iraqi military occupation.
This is also one of the few times in history when outside forces have intervened militarily to save the lives of citizens from their government. More commonly, we wring our hands for years as victims are massacred, and then, when it is too late, earnestly declare: “Never again.”
___________
And yet the country jokes about vacations and brackets.
I notice she's disappeared AGAIN!
Can't you just picture her, strapping on her tin foil hat, grasping her Karl Rove playbook scurrying back under the bridge?
skip: that was WONDERFUL, thanks for posting.
While at the same time denying that those deficits or the current recession had anything to do with Bush administration policies.
Don't you love your irony thick?
I figured it was 50/50 you'd catch it Clara. I guess I was a little overconfident. We'll try 25/75 next time.
As for Feisty - everything goes over that gals redhead. It's really no challenge to confuse that one.
Well, at least everyone else figured it out. We'll just put you two in the remedial class.
Steve-505729
Wow,
the Libbies are pissed this morning. just heading into the kitchen to make some Popcorn. anyone else want any
WOW, here's hoping you don't trip along the way to the kitchen. Your disgusting words may have consequences.
Bev,
You just Disgust me, Remember. I dont like you. So. Ignore me if you like . I dont care.. but dont expect me to not post on these boards..
From now to the 2012 elections, things are going to be very interesting. With so many buyers remorse as far as the public being sorry that they elected so many Republicans-Tea people, we may very well see the largest recall in history. People now see that the Republicans Governors are balancing the budget problems on the backs of the middle class and poor, while giving every possible tax breaks to the corporations and the rich.
Remember folks, These Republicans in office don’t work for the people but instead they work for the corporations. So, let’s keep the recalls going and hand the Republicans-Tea People the message that their party time is over and the people of the United States rule our country.
Bev,
Steve's a Marxist, ignore him.
Dawn
Glad you liked it. I thought it was appropriate.
Make sure to wash your hands first Stevie, you wouldn't want any of your belly button lint to end up in the popcorn now, would you?
Well I love you Bev. And I really would like to hear what you have to say about the reports that the Libyan rebels, under air cover provided by Obama are literally going door to door in the towns they hold to chop dark skinned Africans into little pieces.
Now we know Khadaffy hired mercenaries from down south, and they are black. So it seems rather than determine who is a mercenary and who is not, they just chop, chop, chop.
Bev.? Is this a good thing? Are you proud, as an American and Ardent Obama supporter of our support of these folk?
Exit question - if Obama was there, given his shim color would he be chopped to bits? Would you?
This is a disgusting development and is exactly why we need to make like the Germans and get out of Dodge, right Bev.?
Oh---it was irony and parody from JS1-----I just figured it was more negativism and knee-jerk hatred of President Obama. My bad.
Well said Jody, and you aren't the only one thinking that way;
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9M1SKOO0.htm
If you look at the relative success of different approaches it bears out. The route we're taking essentially leads to Mississippi, a place that needs federal subsidies to support its population of under educated, under paid, unskilled people.
I once considered a job in Tuscaloosa, AL. While being interviewed by the company President he told me "if everything goes well we'll get our school system back from state control at the end of the year." Does this sound like an environment ANY sensible executive would willingly take his company to? After decades of pursuing the low service, low tax approach those states are even worse off than they were before, more dependent upon federal money just to keep their people from starving. Who's going to support them once the Iowas, Wisconsins, and Maines are converted into still more Mississippis?
I would like to think of myself as a Democrat, I am pro people and against deregulations of certain industries and practices. I think Obama sucks, he disgraces the party and leans further right than most Republican members. He talked about transparency, but then abuses those who speak out (Bradley Manning.) There is nothing so secretive that is should be kept from the people and no I am not talking about where troop movements are going to happen and stuff like that, but after the fact and hiding video of the US killing civilians. He is actually more secretive than Bush was, if that were even possible. He talks about the health care bill, until people start finding out about non-healthcare issues such as article 9006, that is hidden in the massive bill. The more I know about him, the less I like. He is NO different than any current politicians we have in office, they are all b!tches for corporate America and everyone knows that Goldman Sachs is pulling the strings. As it stands now, Ron Paul is getting my vote in 2012, only if he sticks to the promise that he will audit and control the Fed. (For the record, I would have voted for McCain until he took that nutcase from Alaska.)
Coupla little chime-ins here ... first Navy, Anna Molly, Clara, John B, Ron .... just keep on punching. JAS1 hasn't been unable to untangle her twisted calendar no matter how hard she tried. Now, I'm rep-posting from other 'Vine blogs here a couple of bulletins related to the day's news:
Re Newtie:
Big Daddy Fried Pork Rinds has more lives than a shelter full of cats. He commits public politicial suicide two, three times a week - four or five, when he's on a roll.
But down there in Georgia, they usually don't serve fried pork rinds on a roll.
Gingrich really should just go back to his flat rock in the piney woods outside Savannah, the other newts miss him.
Re state and local budget woes:
For decades, states and cities have repeatedly slashed budgets for basics - routine maintenance of bridges, repainting City Hall, fixing the schoolhouse's leaky roof. It all adds up over time, as is clearly seen in California in the many years since 1978 adoption of the Jarvis-Gann Act (Prop. 13).
Public education has been under steady attack since the days of the Reagan Regime. As someone observed recently, "The best way to prove public education is failing is to make it fail."
Too many states are now under the harsh whips of the ultra-right ideologues, who consider the Bush Recession their rallying cry not to make judicious cuts or delay some activities, but instead achieve long-cherished political goals. These are modern America's Neanderthals, and they want us all back in the caves, or else out hunting for the clan chieftain's dinner.
Of course, the very best solution is - ? Increase employment. Jobs, more social stability, higher revenues.
They are instead attacking the workers, cutting the jobs, eliminating training programs to enable workers to shift careers, and even cutting the small trickle of aid from unemployment compensation that has kept so many millions moving forward.
The cities are in trouble, yeah. So's the rural countryside. In fact, let's just say that the GOP/TP policies are a regression into barbarism and "pound foolishness."
To Retired Navy - I don't put much stock in a Quinnipiac poll. We are thrilled that our Governer is working to make Ohio a better place.
Additionally, to the poster who brought up that Obama had inherited debt similar to these governors. Maybe he did, but Obama's approach was not to rein in spending, actually, he has worked hard to outspend his predecessor and done a fine job spending America into oblivion. Obama needs to take lessons from Christy and Kasich.
Doesn't anyone get tired of the constant polls? Gallup, Quinnipiac, Pew, ad nausem. We just had a poll taken in November of last year. That's the one that counts. In fact, it's the only one that counts. Let's see what happens in Wisconsin and Michigan and Ohio. Those are issues for the citizens of those states. I think we are going to find that those Governors have seriously overplayed their hands. Let's wait and find out. If there's a recall, we can watch that poll. Again, those are the polls that count.
The constant partisan bickering here is ridiculous and it seems to get worse every day. Collapsing posts is beyond childish. I hate Feisty. I'm going to collapse her post. Bev pissed me off. I'm going to collapse her post. Mixed Bag is up to his usual right wing nonsense. I'm going to collapse his post. Joe in Albany is dumb. I'm going to collapse his post. Come on folks, even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Even the blind pig gets an acorn once in a while. If you don't like a post, don't read it, but collapsing it doesn't make the truth go away.
As far as the actual topics: Does Obama always get it right? No. Does Boehner always get it right? No. I'm sick of Odumbo and Boner. Really? Does that have some sort of value? Take your crayons and go away.
It gets very tiresome, and quite irritating, to see posts that trash every single action taken by the President, or to see the Dems trashed on every single thing they do. That's the reason I refuse to read posts by JoAnna Smith. I know exactly what she's going to say in her typical facts-be-damned style. Ideologues have absolutely nothing of value to offer, and that includes the left-wing types.
I'm looking for opinions from people like my Grandfather, an unreconstructed Roosevelt Democrat who never took a penny of welfare and never wasted a nickel. I'm looking for the views of people with whom I may not always agree, but present arguments grounded in fact - not ideology. I'm looking for people who can challenge my beliefs and opinions because I know I'm not always correct.
There really are people who come to these fora who are every bit as sharp - and some even sharper - than the media and the partisan hacks. I'm looking for them and I hope you are too.
David Walker - Spot on, from an unreconstructed Roosevelt Democrat.
Lots of right wing marxists out today.
I'm sure Obama thought that, since the Wisconsin Democratic legislators were treated as "heroes" for running away from their responsibilities, he figured that would work for him too. He must be thinking "Why doesn't everybody love me any more?"
Grand Moff Joseph
US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired Comment collapsed by the community
“Buyers Remorse” is alive and well in Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania.
In Ohio the new Quinnipiac Poll shows Governor Kasich with only a 30% approval rate and a disapproval rate of 46%. 54% think repealing “Collective Bargaining” is a bad idea and 55% want the Governor to find another way to balance the budget instead of on the backs of the Middle Class. This is the same Governor that while claiming the State is broke, this week proposes a bill to remove $229 Million Dollars in revenues out of the State Budget into the hands of “Private Companies” for liquor sales. Now Ohio does not have a recall option but they can but bills on a referendum come November and the people will vote them up or down. This has the GOP/TP worried because when you have unpopular bills coming up for a referendum a lot of democrats will come out to vote and vote for elected officials while they are there. 6 Republican State Senators are holding their breath come November.
In Pennsylvania Governor Tom Corbett gave over 830 Million in Tax Cuts to corporations and the wealthy while trying to raise taxes on the poor. A Franklin Marshall College Poll say his performance is at 52% say poor or fair and only 31% say good or excellent. Only 31% think he is doing a good to excellent job.
In Michigan the “Despot” Governor Rick Snyder who made drastic cuts to education while giving a 1.8 Billion (with a “B”) income and property tax cuts to corporations and the rich also while increasing the taxes on Seniors and the poor and giving himself “GOD” like powers has an approval rating of 33%, disapproval rating of 50% according to Public Policy Polling.
In Wisconsin where the GOP/TP thought that the repeal of “Collective Bargaining” was going to be a slam dunk saw it become a National Movement with huge rallies across all 50 States. Governor Walker won his election by 6% points. If the election were to be held today he would loose 52% to 45%. In other words today he would loose the election by 7% making a total 13% swing.
The American People are tired of the lies that the GOP/TP has been selling. They are tired of having their rights trampled on like abortion rights, voting rights, collective bargaining rights, etc.
They want Jobs, a Stable Economy and improved education, not just idle rhetoric and more broken promises.
Beverly in Chicago Comment collapsed by the community
Steve-505729
Wow,
the Libbies are pissed this morning. just heading into the kitchen to make some Popcorn. anyone else want any
WOW, here's hoping you don't trip along the way to the kitchen. Your disgusting words may have consequences.
@Steve-505729
Bev,
You just Disgust me, Remember. I dont like you. So. Ignore me if you like . I dont care.. but dont expect me to not post on these boards..
Shouldn't you ignore me since you dislike me?
FYI: I have never said you should not post here. Neither have I collapsed your posts. I prefer they remain for people to see how asinine you are.
Spanky-
Well I love you Bev.
I know. I give you credit for being able to keep your crooked love on a straight and narrow path. I know you can walk with my love.
I just want you to not fall in any gaping holes in the earth as buy/ hoard as my light bulbs as you can
Oh, and don't go boating if a storm looms. I'd hate that doing unless you wash up on the shores of Lake Michigan. I'd love that.
Bev,
I dont put people on Ignore. but i do remember you Claiming to put me on Ignore and that you would never respond to another one of my Post after i Proved you to be a RACIST HateMongerig Black woman. Why dont you live up to the Promises you make instead of Claiming something you wont Do. You see Bev. this is why i dont like you .. Because like the President you dont stand on your Convictions. You just Run your mouth and then dont back it up with Actions..
I choose to read your RACIST rants.. then respond to them..
Wow if that's not a diversion from the topic I don't know what is... Nervous there Feisty!? I'm sure there's plenty of articles on Newt to post on. Now what says you regarding Obama's heavy handed boundary busting strike on a non-threatening nation?
I could only imagine what kind of childish garbage would spew from your keyboard had this been a POTUS with an (R) behind his name. You're so obvious it's not even fun calling you out.
Steve-505729
Bev,
I dont put people on Ignore. but i do remember you Claiming to put me on Ignore and that you would never respond to another one of my Post after i Proved you to be a RACIST HateMongerig Black woman. Why dont you live up to the Promises you make instead of Claiming something you wont Do. You see Bev. this is why i dont like you .. Because like the President you dont stand on your Convictions. You just Run your mouth and then dont back it up with Actions..
I choose to read your RACIST rants.. then respond to them..
Oh Lawd! Ahhm, excuse me republiclown you need to work on that !
I did not say I put you on ignore Stevie-o. I said I would ignore you because you are a pitiful race baiting, stalker.
I forgot you about it since you hadn't been around lately to do your fast race baiter chasing.
It must be a Rat Race for you to cry foul at practically every thing I post.
Get a life you right wing nut job.
I bet you are a birther too.
Bev,
You are a Liar. I understand that you wish to try now and Qualify your words about you putting me on Ignore. You are a Sick Individual that needs some very Serious Therapy. Better yet you should be put into a mental Hospital Bev, like i said. I dont like you . I have stated many times that Obamas Mother is an American. that makes him one. I believe he was born in Hawaii. However. Even if it were true that he was Born in Kenya. He would still be an American Citizen.. and able to be president.. but i understand you just like to throw things out there. Not because they are true. BUT BECAUSE YOU ARE A RACIST BLACK WOMAN You think that Because you are BLACK that i wont stand up to your RACISM well i ahve said it many times . BEV YOU DONT SCARE ME . YOU DONT INTIMIDATE ME YOU CAN NOT SILENCE ME. I WILL STAND UP TO YORU RACISM EVERYDAY. Now put me on Ignore or just dont respond to me. I DONT CARE. but if you do . EXPECT ME to respond back..'
“[T]he president`s doctrine is not an ideology. He’s not an ideological guy. He’s very pragmatic. And so he’s for -- as he said in the Situation Room, he’s for what works. …
Can you just imagine this tool running on this platform? Mr lying-liar Obama was pretty clear during the campaign that he had an ideology, and that he completely disagreed 100% with exactly what he has just executed in Lybia - using the standard he and his clowns have espoused, they would have 100% supported the Iraq war - so you lying liars cannot have it both ways - your stooge is a liar, you folks want everything your way, and an ILLEGAL WAR is suddenly LEGAL because you say so.
Sorry - the US government is a big FAIL - it is far past time to reign in their power, cut their money supply, and make them all sit in the back.
@ Bev in Chicago, reposting inflammatory posts doesn't make them better the second time around. I didn't agree with the post, but didn't bother to report it. Obviously, many others did. You're a tool for the Administration, which doesn't do much for your reputation.
Don't worry, Barry, the first day back at work after a vacation always sucks.
So a multi-nation tour to South America to promote trade/commerce between the US and SA, along with the announcement that exports to SA will increase significantly in the coming years, is a vacation?
So, I guess you thought that W was hard at work 24/7 on his nearly twice a month trips back o his ranch, right?
If the President was on vacation, he sure got a lot of work done. You peanut gallery folks are all alike. You get your information from the Beck circus news channel.
You get your information from the Beck circus news channel.
__________________________________________________
Actually, I got my information from last nights NBC Nightly News' report by Chuck Todd where he called it a "vacation" before politically correcting himself.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
Well, that's just about the same thing as the Beck circus news channel. The "vacation" comment shows you exactly where his head is at. Weak head, I mean. I put him right in your league, Joe.
Understandable that Chuck Todd would consider it a vacation, visiting countries he's likely not seen before, lots of down time as the President meets with leaders away from the press. The naysayers just look for anything to downplay the importance of President Obama's trip, a successful one which is increasing exports from the US to South American countries as just one example.
Darn, Joe-
Chucky T's objectivity is already questioned regularly here at First Read...that is, many here suspect that, on occasion, he actually displays some.
And where President Obama is concerned, that's unacceptable.
Bag:
You really put a lot of effort into nursing your grievances against the mythological "liberal" media bias, don't you?
"Well, that's just about the same thing as the Beck circus news channel."
____________________________________________
So, I guess the only credible news source in the world is thinkprogress??
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Job1 and
Anna Molly
It's not just the Beck channel that called The President's trip a "vacation." Chuck Todd used that word as well. Apparently this is the new "story line" the media is constructing. Egypt's revolution was courageous, but the Libyians' is just "silly." The President is not authoritarian enough for the media's script. Cue the idiots in Congress to batter him like unruly children under the substitute teacher.
Good morning, Houston-
Glad to see you're here with the rest of us warmongers.
Job1... the left gets their info from comedians Bill Maher, Stephanie Miller, Jon Stewart..Comedy Central a great news source. I dont see a lot of credibility on either side so be careful when you start throwing stones.
And wouldn't you know it, this always happens when you get home from vacation, apparently Obama forgot his keys and couldn't back in the White House. He probably ended up breaking a basement window and sending one of the kids in to unlock the door.
http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/national/president-barack-obama-locked-out-of-white-house
That's exactly what I mean, Amy. Chuck Todd is simply not a liberal media voice. And he isn't particularly a deep thinker or a reflective one.
My point, exactly, Joe. It just goes to show how little you know about me or anything else, and just how much you think you do.
The Webster online dictionary defines a warmonger as "one who urges or attempts to stir up war." I don't recall urging or attempting to stir up any wars. Were you doing that? Shame on you.
Sorry, Anna Molly-
Todd was editor-in-chief of National Journal's Hotline for six years...that's pretty serious, in my book.
He might not be as important a liberal media voice, and as deep a thinker as, say, Bill Maher...but then, he's not as miserable and despicable, either.
By the way...what are YOU doing here with the rest of us warmongers?
Have you had an epiphany, too?
Liberals. All marching off to war today. A war they fully support. They look so cute in their helmets.
Hey, Houston-
Just glad you're aboard, that's all.
And, I'm surprised you had to look it up.
Anna Molly
If Todd used the word "vacation" to describe Obama's trip to South America, I suspect he used it accidentally on purpose. Even during the campaign, Todd was out to get Obama. Todd accused him of flip-flopping because Obama said he would listen to the "commanders on the ground" when shaping his policies on Iraq (as if Obama ever had said he was just going to "cut and run" if elected president). When Todd got criticized himself for trying to create a nontroversy, he said of Obama in one of those Newsvine threads, "Don't p** on my leg and tell me it's raining."
"My point, exactly, Joe. It just goes to show how little you know about me or anything else, and just how much you think you do."
___________________________________________
For someone who claims to be a self-employed lawyer you spend an awful lot of time on FR. Client list and billable hours a little thin??
Well said Amy, and the Libyan storyline is a perfect example. The proprietors of Politico said "Drudge rules our world", and at this moment the world of Drudge and his like are just throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks. Right now, depending not only upon who you listen to but when, President Obama; Didn't do enough/did too much, acted too soon/not soon enough, is insufficiently supportive of democracy while backing potentially dangerous insurgents, put us in harms way by letting Britain and France take the lead...it goes on and on like this.
Conservative leaders are just a bunch of cheap hucksters, fishing around for anything that'll sell.
"They look so cute in their helmets."
______________________________________________
I especially like the antennas and eyepiece that allow them instant access to thinkprogress so they know what they should think and say.
Bag:
Be sure to let us know when Boehner and Gingrich decide whether they're for the Libyan intervention or against it, or both at the same time.
Maybe, but not about warmongering.
How I run my practice is my business, although I'm flattered that you notice.
By the way, what are YOU doing out here?
Well, that about sums him up, in my book. Thanks for the info.
Houston-
I'm just celebrating a rare moment of consensus with you on the subject of our President's military intervention in Libya.
Why do I sense you're not enjoying our solidarity as much as I am, comrade?
Bag:
I guess some of us just don't get the same enjoyment out of killing that you do.
OK, OK.....
It wasn't a vacation.
It was take your wife and kids to South America work day.
Houston-
That's it...
Game, set, match.
You're so predictable.
Over there.. Over there, Send the word send the word over there.............. That the Yanks are coming
guess they are all lacing up their marching boots, and finally getting onboard with the warmongering president.
Bag:
Yeah, I win every time. Must be frustrating for you.
Mixed Bag
Good morning, Houston-
Glad to see you're here with the rest of us warmongers.
--------------------
petty namecalling? really?
I guess that's all you have in your tool box today? Duly noted. I hope that works out for you, MB.
No, Houston-
You allow your button to be pushed every time...and every time, you go way over the top.
Every single time.
Easy does it, Clara-
Embrace my victimhood.
Houston just suggested that I'm a homicidal psychopath.
I have my flaws, but really...!
A new low...even by his standards.
Where do I go to sign up for button-pushing?
Sounds like fun. ;-)
MB,
You've clung to the warmonger meme since yesterday. Houston pointed out (accurately) that isn't how it is for him (nor for me, I might add); and you've been reduced to perpetuating the schtick. I don't think that's 'victimhood' but rather poking an angry dog with a sharp stick. And on some level - aren't we all a little 'psycho'? Why else do we login everyday to take our metaphorical lumps?
Actually Clara - MB's been beating that meme since first thing Monday morning!
I challenge him to find where I EVER agreed with him?
Eh... doesn't stop him from banging his drum slowly!
Bag:
Ah, an ad hominem attack. As I've pointed out, a ad hominem attack isn't saying something mean about someone because you find him to be a blockhead, it's an attack on someone made to avoid rational discussions. Everyone knows your only reason for being here is to "push buttons," which is an admission that you're just trolling. You lose.
Oh, well, if that's what Bag Boy means by "button-pushing," then never mind.
Because I need at least two lumps in my tea. ;-)
Bag:
Don't get hysterical. I never said that. I doubt you're a danger to people other than to yourself.
Clara KCMO
Mixed Bag seems to believe that he "wins" if he repeats himself over and over until everyone gets bored and gives up. What he wins, I don't know. Maybe a framed portrait of Newt Gingrich talking out of both sides of his mouth.
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL Comment collapsed by the community
Newt Gringrich has graduated with honors from the McCain Institute of Flip-Flopping! In this day & age of multiple media, wouldn't you think by now, these potential Presidential candidates, would figure out that EVERY word you speak is traceable & on record for eternity?
Further EVIDENCE that the Teapublican Party will say whatever it is they believe their 'base' wants to hear, regardless of whether or not it's realistic!
Indeed astonishing!
Here's a shovel Newtie – keep on digging!
Oh boy, Houston-
You think this Libya thing is bad...wait until President Obama finally gets serious about the debt crisis. It's going to happen...
Then, I'll be in his corner yet again...
Heaven knows how you'll deal with that.
You used to only launch your vicious attacks when I disagreed with President Obama...
It's a "brave new world" in many respects, isn't it?
Did you know that you're viewed as an "angry dog", Houston?
That ought to be enough to inspire some behavioral changes.
Well, since Fesity's first thread was collapsed, here's a re-post of my comment in the #1 thread series:
Coupla little chime-ins here ... first Navy, Anna Molly, Clara, John B, Ron .... just keep on punching. JAS1 hasn't been able to untangle her twisted calendar no matter how hard she tried. Now, I'm re-posting from other 'Vine blogs here a couple of bulletins related to the day's news:
Re Newtie:
Big Daddy Fried Pork Rinds has more lives than a shelter full of cats. He commits public politicial suicide two, three times a week - four or five, when he's on a roll.
But down there in Georgia, they usually don't serve fried pork rinds on a roll.
Gingrich really should just go back to his flat rock in the piney woods outside Savannah, the other newts miss him.
Re state and local budget woes:
For decades, states and cities have repeatedly slashed budgets for basics - routine maintenance of bridges, repainting City Hall, fixing the schoolhouse's leaky roof. It all adds up over time, as is clearly seen in California in the many years since 1978 adoption of the Jarvis-Gann Act (Prop. 13).
Public education has been under steady attack since the days of the Reagan Regime. As someone observed recently, "The best way to prove public education is failing is to make it fail."
Too many states are now under the harsh whips of the ultra-right ideologues, who consider the Bush Recession their rallying cry not to make judicious cuts or delay some activities, but instead achieve long-cherished political goals. These are modern America's Neanderthals, and they want us all back in the caves, or else out hunting for the clan chieftain's dinner.
Of course, the very best solution is - ? Increase employment. Jobs, more social stability, higher revenues.
They are instead attacking the workers, cutting the jobs, eliminating training programs to enable workers to shift careers, and even cutting the small trickle of aid from unemployment compensation that has kept so many millions moving forward.
The cities are in trouble, yeah. So's the rural countryside. In fact, let's just say that the GOP/TP policies are a regression into barbarism and "pound foolishness."
You mean the like President Obama inherited from his Republican predecessor JoAnna?
Thanks for the reminder!
You might want to consider a little vacation yourself, you appear to be losing that 'magic' touch of yours! ;o)
For those of you hating... I still don't really see what all the fuss is about... I said this yesterday, and I'm still waiting for someone on this thread to say something/anything of value to disapprove of the president's positions on Libya.
- What is constitutionally wrong about it? no i don't see that yet.... it seems fairly legal.
- Did the president go in unilaterally? no, the french were actually the first to drop bombs...
- Has the president been a hypocrite with his positions? no one is yet to prove that....
- Are conservatives mad at something? Yes, but I still can't figure out what... except that they don't like how it was handled....
I've read nothing thus far, excepts for opinions of how the president should have implemented this situation....and so far every conservative, TP, or republican has had differing opinions on how it should be implemented - mixed bag seems to be the only conservative who sort of gets it - i.e. there's no there, there.
re post
Why are many of you (redhead & others) discussing what Presidential candidates think about this?
Who cares? They are not making policy, Obama is. I, for one, can not makes heads or tails out of what he has done, is doing, or will do as these middle east dictators continue to face off against their own people.
My thoughts are mixed on Libya, but I know that if Obama's plan was to go into Libya all along, he should have announced a no-fly zone 3 1/2 weeks ago (which, by the way many were calling for). Instead he gave Qaddafi (or gadafi, khadafi, or daffy?) ample time to get his ground troops into place; making this a much more difficult operation. Had he simply announced a no-fly zone 3 1/2 weeks ago I believe Qaddafi's military (especially air force) would have largely defected and he would have been marginalized. Secondly it would have sent a message to the other dictitorial regimes in the region that you may not murder your own people at will.
At present nobody (including those dictators) has a clear picture of what our policy is or will be, so they will simply murder any who try to stand up to their tyranical regimes.
Obama; please give us some clarity!!
Clarity will stop $7 a gallon gas this summer and an economic free-fall. Lack of clarity and we get $7 gal + gas, and much like the summer of 2008 ($5 gal gas), our economy goes in the tank again.
Well put Akins...
Repukes are experts at slinging mud in their own slum. When Obama seemed to hesitate supporting action in Libya, republicans were all chanting we should go and calling him weak and inexperienced. When the coalition imposed the no-fly zone to stop a massacre, then they call it "a war" and bring out nonsensical arguments about this being an illegal war (despite the fact that it is not a war and that Bush did much worse when it came to Iraq - which the same people supported back then).
It's really sad to see the country that helped win the second world war, won against communism and dominated the globe as a superpower for twenty years be invaded by repuke cry babies that pretend to wonder on forums: "Why does america always have to get involved? they should do it on their own". Of course, these same people were all gung-ho to force democracy upon Iraquis (who were more or less ready to fight for it (Viet-Nam part 2 anyone?) but then when there are actual rebels FIGHTING a dictator, dear-old neo-cons complain that spreading democracy is not their job...
As Martin Luther King once said: "America suffers from a schizophrenic personality".
Yeah... no sh*t.
Prisme-
"Repukes are experts at slinging mud..."
Have you no sense of self-awareness sir, at long last?
"Have you left no sense of decency?"-Special Counsel for the Army, Joseph Welch at the Army-McCarthy hearings, 1954.
lol...
So, Feisty-
It's me and the President against you on the Libya thing, eh?
Bring it, darlin'...
'Cause I'm ready and maybe he is too.
I've seen your work CU and am not impressed, apparently neither is Tyler! lol
PRISME,
Your blathering on against "repukes" is irrelevant. What is the President's clear strategy, and why do you hypocritically support it and not Iraq? (and don't give me this coalition blather or U.N. backing). Morally and strategically (the 2 criterion for military action) why are we there, and morally and strategically why do you feel we should not have been in Iraq? (Vietnam and Iraq comparison, seriously? What a dolt, read you history!!)
maybe it because you call him a duche bag. Does that seem possible to your feeble mind??
Chuck Todd used the word vacation but so did Ed Henry over at CNN.
Tod -
Several of us have been batting this topic about for some time. I think you'll find that we are not all of the same opinion, or in support of the Libyan "incursion" at all. I share some of your feelings, for example.
Quite a while back, when Ghadafi turned on his people, there was a lot of discussion about the military, economic, and political (foreign and domestic) intracacies of any intervention by the U.S. From the beginning, it was clear that there was great reluctance for any American actions in Libya - both among the people of the U.S. and certainly in all corners of Washington, D.C., apart from a few extreme hawks.
At the time, France, Britain and Italy in particular had "more in the game" than the U.S. with many of their nationals either in, from, or closely tied by business and relationships to the country. When talk first arose about intervention, the speculation was that those nations might take the lead, perhaps with background support from the U.S. Certainly, we had to take very sensitive care of our relationships with other North Aftrican or Middle Eastern, states - relationships that some kind of military action could quickly damage. Nor did the U.S. wish to suddenly become engaged in a conflict which might feed fuel to anti-American jihadists.
However, it soon became apparent that the U.S. felt something had to be done. A wanton bloodbath simply was not acceptable, nor did we wish to see Libya become a "failed state" endowed with oil, strategic location, and possibly a new surge of terrorists supported by Ghadafi or jihadist successors. That, in fact, probably most succinctly desribes American policy there today.
In the meantime, behind-the-scenes diplomatic initiatives were underway, and in my opinion were performed brilliantly. When the President did speak out that Ghadafi's attacks and mad ranting threats indeed looked to become quite deadly, he included in his comments about events that Libya's Arab neighbors necessarily had to take almost the first position, and that he expected some Arab nations' participation in whatever was to follow. And he again urged our NATO allies to address the matter.
Last week when the President spoke shortly before the United Nations vote, it was clear the diplomacy was successful - and with neither China nor Russia vetoing the resolution, the path was open. The Arab League had invited military intervention for humanitarian reasons, whatever deep unease was felt among those countries was tamped down (I do not mean protests and peaceful opposition), and France stepped up to take the lead in speaking about the plans for the intervention. This was a remarkably quick turn of events, in fact.
The President has not felt comfortable taking on the Libyan intervention. It's clear he feels far less comfortable now.
Yes, had Ghadafi been blocked before he could import mercenary troops from around Africa, and probably bring in substantial military supplies, the rebels might well have had early victory. At the time, however, the rebels were dealing with their own country as best they could - quite well, in early days.
Even now, the President has not said the goal of American involvement is regime change. He's implied that the mission of protecting large populations from predations of a blood-hungry dictator - consistent with the U.N. resolution - is the goal. He's implied that it is up to the Libyans themselves to remove Ghadafi, although he's never directly said so. Buried in that implication may be encouragement for others to more directly aid the rebels - remember, the U.N. resolution doesn't forbid the use of ground forces, just an occupation of the country.
As far as $7 a gallon gasoline, it is doubtful the Libyan conflict will make much of an impact. Crude prices spiked briefly, but have mainly stabilized. Libya's oil production, which goes primarily to Italy and Europe, is a very tiny percentage of the world oil output. Saudi Arabia has aleady compensated for the interrupted Libyan supplies.
Addendum:
The Libyan incursion is far closer in character to the 1950's dispatch of forces by President Eisenhower to Lebanon, or the several militry operations conducted by President Reagan (although that Lebanese operation is not included in this reference). Comparisons to either Iraq or Vietnam are historically inaccurate, although I should point out the original reference was to Iraq as perhaps "another Vietnam" (paraphrase). There really aren't significant historical parallels between Iraq and Vietnam, either - nor between Liby and Iraq. (Quibble about the no-fly zone after Gulf War I if you wish - if anything, the West learned a lot and didn't repeat some of those mistakes.)
Anyone who wants to understand the diplomatic and economic self-interest background of events in North Africa should consult William Appleman Williams' prophetic study, The Tragedy of American Diplomacy. Events unfolding today were eerily described in Williams' treatment of U.S. diplomatic strategies beginning with McKinly - and Williams first published in 1959!
John,
Agreed on some accounts.
I'm not so believing in Obama's altruistic motives as you. I think he considers polls, and other country's opinion rather than having any core american values. All this adds to his indecisveness, which portrays confusion.
I also believe that his indecisveness (or willingness to let others decide/lead first) has created confusion in the middle east as a whole. Llibya creating $7 gal gas? No, you are correct. The destabalizing effect of Obama's incoherent middle east policy on the uprising's in Yemen, Saudi, Syria, Bahrain etc., unknown. Unknown, indecisive, no leadership, confusion are all recipes for $7+ gasoline followed by economic meltdown. Perception is everything when it comes to oil speculation, at present we are percieved as weak and indecisive.
John,
Comparisons between Libya and Iraq may not have been apropriate before Obama stated that "Qaddafi must go" and put our word on the line, but now they are. Morally and strategically they are very similar. The major difference is the amazing amount of time and patience the world had with Saddam as compared to Qaddafi. Good greif the guy was on the U.N. humanitarian panel a few months ago, and had basically been compliant since Bush attacked Iraq.
Qadaffi has a history of backing down, we should have forced him to take that opportunity 3 1/2 weeks ago. Had we done so (strong no-fly zone announcement) there would not be all this confusion as to what our policy is and will be when the other (more oil rich and strategic) dictitorial regimes are challenged. The middle east now knows that when hard decisions are to be made, we will dither around and wait for France or the U.N. to lead. How pathetic is that?
Whats funny is that he was locked out of the White House when he got back... we can only dream it stayed that way.
Watch the video.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theticket/20110325/ts_yblog_theticket/theyre-just-like-us-even-presidents-get-locked-out
@pjam--I could fill a page with all of the funny, ridiculous, stupid things that Bush said/did. But I prefer to focus on the substantive.....
I guess we should be thankful the police didn't arrest him for attempting to break in, right, pjam09?
I'm glad our intelligent President is home to sort out all these allegations.
I contend the Preisdent is doing just as good a job as any one would in this time of his handling of libya . On the war front I do not see our President as weak(he always surpises us),
The War Powers Resolution of 1973 (50 U.S.C. 1541–1548) was a United States Congress joint resolution providing that the President can send U.S. armed forces into action abroad only by authorization of Congress or if the United States is already under attack or serious threat. The War Powers Resolution requires the president to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days, with a further 30 day withdrawal period, without an authorization of the use of military force or adeclaration of war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution
Even Karl Rove, a part of President GW Bush's brain spoke of the tensions in the Constitution regarding war.
Neither, un American google what Karl Rove said on Sean InSannity last last.
True Ugly American,
I think Bev understands more than most conservatives. You know, she reads and thoughtfully interprets the information.
Actually, un-American it's YOU who seems to think the President is not following the law as most T-baggers. You know the law of the land , the Constitution, which most T-baggers want to overturn or re-write.
I don't think any President considers this law to be constitutional. It would be interesting to see it challenged.
I'm sorry, but I gotta tell you, Beverly's constant saccharine sweet praise for Obama makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit every time... "Our intelligent president"? Really? Are you trying to convince yourself or the masses?
Suzy-2005071
I'm sorry, but I gotta tell you, Beverly's constant saccharine sweet praise for Obama makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit every time... "Our intelligent president"? Really? Are you trying to convince yourself or the masses?
I'm wondering did you gag every time that numb skull George spoke?
Education enhances intelligence. Georgie was a "C" student in college and the first President to obtain a M. B. A. Yet he still f'd up the economy, the English language, and without his master puppeteers, Cheney/Rove could not perform a single intelligent act. That is why they were called Bush's Brain.
President Obama graduated magna cum laude from Harvard and was the first African–American and editor of the Harvard Law Review; in addition to being the first African–American President.
In this country with its history of institutional racism it proves that President Obama has exhibited characteristics of significant intelligence which President Obama possesses without others pulling his strings.
Disclaimer: I'm not race baiting just speaking factually, naturally.
I knew Bev would come back to the RACE card.............. she is incapable of going more then a few days without bring up the this issue.
Beverly, it really has nothing to do with the background, as I said, it's the constant saccharine dripping from your embellishments that I choke on. We get that you've sainted the man, planted him on a pedestal and worship at his feet. Fine, if that makes you happy, you go with it. Its just a little over the top for me.
And any time you feel the need to disclaim your racial comments, I'm pretty sure you are indeed race baiting. Still don't care if the President is purple with pink polka dots and green stripes, its his politics I have issue with. I can't honestly think of a single time I've made any reference to the color of his skin in conversation because it just doesn't matter.
She is Exceptional at Copy and pasting though, Popcorn is on the way..
Dear President Obama: I am so sorry and I take full responsibility for the lackluster reception you received.
You see, I was waiting for the ink on your birth certificate to dry when, the cleaners called to tell me your bomber jackets was not ready yet. Then the printers told me they could not get "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" written on one banner because someone with the initials GW used up all the banner paper. And then the navy called and wanted their ship back. So then I asked for a cup of tea but, the "tea bags" were all wet and ruined. So sir, I hope you will forgive me, next time you might want to call Carl Rove, he is great at orchestrating hero's welcomes.
Obama got the Arab League to buy into his scheme. No small measure getting those dictators to agree on something, that's takes a lot of hard work. And the UN's approval, Obama got that too, so he was good to go.
Congresses approval? Why get that? They just ask questions, questions that have no answers. Why bother.
Technically I think you've got this backward... The UN approved of other nations taking action so Obama got in on it too. Didn't want to be left out or something.
True & Steve, can I get in on some of that popcorn? Sounds tasty
I don't know about the rat of you, but I saw pictures of dead people in coffins. Proof of Gaddafi's murderous ways.
Now GW had no proof but lied, lied, lied. He made have gotten approval from Congress but ANY SANE PERSON KNOWS, the WMD were mythical at best.And out and out lies!
True American-2367375
She's incapable of answering a question too!
However, Bev.....Bush was intelligent enough to get Congressional approval BEFORE he committed US assests overseas.............this is just too easy...Steve, I think I'll have some of that popcorn.
You guys are really cold like 0°. You have no critical thinking abilities.
Bush said: “I'm the decider" and did it cowboy style. President Obama got a coalition.
Do you remember...
On December 20, 1989, President Bush ordered 14,000 U.S. military forces to Panama for combat, in addition to 13,000 already present. On December 21, he reported to Congress under the War Powers Resolution but without citing section 4(a)(1). His stated objectives were to protect the 35,000 American citizens in Panama, restore the democratic process, preserve the integrity of the Panama Canal treaties, and apprehend General Manuel Noriega, who had been accused of massive electoral fraud in the Panamanian elections and indicted on drug trafficking charges by two U.S. Federal courts.
I bet you 3 think that was a big threat. However, when President Obama does it you see no threat.
Why then did an insignificant dictator pose such a major threat such as removal from power to require full-scale military intervention since you think Gaddifi is no threat?
Perhaps you should consider this for significant debate...
In its place, Congress and the president have often negotiated congressional authorizations of force, measures that give prior approval to combat under certain conditions -- though those conditions have been vague enough to leave critics complaining that they, too, essentially give the White House a free hand.
http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/subjects/w/war_powers_act_of_1973/index.html
Bev - I think you have your Bushes confused. 1989 was GHWB. I believe that the Panama Canel was a large part of his decision. Last time I check, Libya does not have a canel going through it.
John, Tucson, AZ
Bev - I think you have your Bushes confused. 1989 was GHWB. I believe that the Panama Canel was a large part of his decision. Last time I check, Libya does not have a canel going through it.
I used GHWB as an example in regards to the argument of Congress and the presidents of USA negotiating congressional authorizations.
Those 3 are still a bunch of hypocrites.
True American-2367375, Suzy-2005071, and Stevie-o
And any time you feel the need to disclaim your racial comments, I'm pretty sure you are indeed race baiting. Still don't care if the President is purple with pink polka dots and green stripes, its his politics I have issue with.
Most t-baggers and people like you turn a blind eye in the face of history under the guise of liberals using the race card. How 'bout you 3 stooges accepting America in it's proper historical context?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Transparency....Hope & Change...............LMFAO!
I couldn't think of a better way to expose you 3 stooges for lack of transparency when it comes to the history of America. You belong in the closet.
Wait a minute, come out of the closet this is the 21st Century NOT before or after the Mayflower landed in the past centuries.
Bev,
I like to Trace Slavery back to its Origins. Remeber we had this Discussion before Its started with Black People selling other Black People to Brown and White people. but we understand that you dotn want to go that far back.
Steve-505729,
No one is here to educate you on issues you care very little for or even know anything about.
Go google it you dam*n self...and please lets keep race out of FR discussions. It makes for a more civil discourse. And I've read this whole thread, and you were the 1st to bring up race...let it go man!
Really Domenico, is that opening sentence necessary, since when has a red carpet rolled out for a returning to DC President?
In my opinion, it is something like this that gives some of our rabid brethern another reason to criticize the President. Please dont feed the trolls.
Good Morning to you GM!
I'll let you in on a little secret - you can STARVE the trolls by not clicking on them & responding!
RNC & the rest of the right wing 'think' tanks decided they weren't getting their money's worth, by paying them by the 'word', since most can't compose a complete sentence... lol
No response = NO paycheck!
With the rising cost of Cheeto's these days, it shouldn't take long at all! ;o)
Feisty, that's a good one. The Koch brothers will be a little richer if they get no clicks.
I agree with Amy (see below). Specifically, to refer to Obama's trip as a vacation is ridiculous. He was building relationships, working on trade agreements and in his spare time, keeping track of every other emergency going on in the world...Japan, Libya, etc.
Maybe the reporters felt like they were getting a vacation (well deserved, btw) but they don't carry the responsibility of the decisions that presidents have to make.
I know this will fall on deaf ears, but I am really, really sick of American journalists and politicians, manipulating my feelings, constructing "story lines," telling me what I think before I have made up my mind, pretending that the world is a stage they get to write the script for. No historical perspective, no connection to reality, no thoughtfulness or introspection, no patience, no adherence to basic values. Just hysteria and broken thinking
Feisty You can use that as your defense all you want to for no response.As a casual observer it appears you don't respond when you get called out or don't have a factual rebuttal.
Aren't opinions great? Everyone has one... just like, well you know... ;o)
I hope you don't mind, if I'm the one who decides who I want to waste time & energy on responding to...
I am after all, a Pro-Choice elitest!
You guys really should stop calling the Fiesty One out to actually answer a Question.
True is Correct. If she can't find something to Copy and paste. (just like her Twisted Sistah Bev) she will ignore it. Unless you continue to ask her. The she will start Calling you Names..
Why are many of you (redhead & others) discussing what Presidential candidates think about this?
Who cares? They are not making policy, Obama is. I, for one, can not makes heads or tails out of what he has done, is doing, or will do as these middle east dictators continue to face off against their own people.
My thoughts are mixed on Libya, but I know that if Obama's plan was to go into Libya all along, he should have announced a no-fly zone 3 1/2 weeks ago (which, by the way many were calling for). Instead he gave Qaddafi (or gadafi, khadafi, or daffy?) ample time to get his ground troops into place; making this a much more difficult operation. Had he simply announced a no-fly zone 3 1/2 weeks ago I believe Qaddafi's military (especially air force) would have largely defected and he would have been marginalized. Secondly it would have sent a message to the other dictitorial regimes in the region that you may not murder your own people at will.
At present nobody (including those dictators) has a clear picture of what our policy is or will be, so they will simply murder any who try to stand up to their tyranical regimes.
Obama; please give us some clarity!!
Clarity will put an end to out of control gas prices ($7 a gallon by summer unless we get our act together) and maybe allow our economy to get back on track. Without clarity we'll be in an even worse swan dive than we were after $5 gas in the summer of 2008.
True American: (in reference to your comment that the media is spinning Newt's flip-flopping concerning the fact that they misrepresented him supporting US intervention but not a UN intervention in the context of a no-fly zone over Libya)
When you have to sh*t-pick meannings and sentences so badly, I really hope you know that everyone else but you knows its total bs that could only work in school yard debates. Please... a little descency.
Feisty in response
'Aren't opinions great? Everyone has one... just like, well you know... ;o)
I hope you don't mind, if I'm the one who decides who I want to waste time & energy on responding to...
I am after all, a Pro-Choice elitest!'
LOL. I could have crafted your response. Deflect, deflect, deflect, excuse, excuse, excuse...
" there were no ceremonial trumpets playing for him when he returned to Washington"
You would've liked that , though, right, Chuck? Would you have bowed like Brian Williams?
"*** Late-night licks: We warned a week ago that this was possible and here it is"
MSNBC has Obama's back, always.....
I have held off for two years to give President Obama time to grow into the job. I knew he had limited experience. I allowed for his aloof appearance as just inexperience. That was not it. He is an arrogant person who thinks himself to be an expert in all things, and above we the common folks.
This man has never really had a job. When most American kids were mowing lawns, delivering newspapers, and such, to make pocket money, he had none of that.
His life-time interaction with others is limited to who and what? A lawyer in Chicago? A short term Senator? He is so slick he could slide up a tree. Bold face-In- your- face- lies; with the assumption that The People will forget what was said.
How clever to write a book about his life. This cleared the decks, his past, and allowed him to proceed unquestioned by the media world-wide and domestic.
He has no past as far as I can tell. He has no real home that he and his family return to. There was one Christmas in his place in Chicago. Yes, and what about that extra lot that is next door; how did you pay for it? I forget.
Where are his child-hood friends? Where are the two mentioned Muslim room mates he had in college? One would think that they would capitalize on this in the form of a book contract worth millions of dollars. Who were they and why don't they open their mouths with a book like: "My Room Mate; The Slob." Neither one could use a few million that any publishing house would pay?
He has dropped more shoes than I am able to count.
He canned General Stanley McChrystal; a man of honor and great experience. He chose to believe the reporters of Rolling Stone over the integrity of a graduate from The Point; God, and Country. A man who proved himself by his actions.
Obama gives us nothing but lip service. He is in constant campaign mode. His speech and actions are directed to raising money for his next election. As he travels our nation pretending to be concerned over the lack of jobs take note of the states he visits. Also, note the dinners in the cities he visits. It is all about raising money for his "war-chest."
He is unable to speak without notes or his teleprompter. The other night, on the television, there was some reporter interviewing Obama. Obama is unable to speak a full sentence without using "UH" several times. I started counting the "uhs." I quit after I hit twenty. And uh, if you look uh then there is uh. I feel that the uhs give him the time to think about what it is that he is suppose to say. He is pre-programed so he is lost unless it is written down for him.
There are so many examples.
Recently, the White House had a dinner and a party to honor the music of Motown. I was not invited, were you? The MC for the event was a man named Jamie Foxx. On the film, Foxx leaned over to the front row of seats where Mr. and Mrs. Obama were seated. Foxx was "poking fun at Mr. Obama." He said to him something like, " I have seen your dance moves Mr President, you must have gotten them from the other side of your family." Obama must have thought that this was funny because he roared with laughter. How can he find this racist comment funny. "Only Black People can dance?" Is that the thought here Foxx and Obama. What does Obama even know about Motown? I would bet ten grand against a weeks stay in the Lincoln Bedroom that he can't name the man who played the Bass guitar on the recording by The Temptations of "My Girl." I will bet the same that he can't name one member of the "Funk Brothers." This man is out of touch with America, and that includes Black America which people insist on keeping separate from all Americans.
His return home from South America and Central America. He wants us to believe that this was work. That he and the family went down there to increase trade and make more jobs for Americans. He refuses to say that it was in fact a vacation. Tell the truth man!
If it was for trade there are members of his hand picked Cabinet whose jobs are to do just that. There is Sec. Gary Locke; Dept. of Commerce. There is Ambassador Ronald Kirk; U.S. Trade Representative. Lastly there is Chairman Austen Goolsbee; Council of Economic Advisors.
Why, Obama did you give 200 Million away when you were down there? Where is this money coming from? You stated that it is to be used by the South and Central Americans to fight their war on drugs and street gangs. This is insane. The country is so deep in debt. Tell me Obama, who said "Blessed are the young for they shall inherit the national debt." That was Herbert Hoover.
Where are you? A vacation for you and your family costs the tax payers a fortune. Jets for you, jets for your car and decoys and SS. A jet for the media and your SS and your doctor. Most Americans can't afford to fill their automobile tanks and you are burning jet fuel as though it was free....free it is for you!
Enough President Obama. I do not think that We The People will vote you in for a second term. Enjoy the White House with all the trimmings as you have been doing. That 2 AM lobster you love so much will soon have a price tag on it.
Men are working two jobs in order to support their family now.
Will you vacation this summer at the Vineyard again? Will there be another vacation before the long hot summer in Washington; a late spring vacation when your children are on break from Sidwell Friends School? That is a Quaker school as I recall. You know, one of the "peace churches."
Camp David is nice and not too far from the joint on Penn Ave. We own the place and the hundreds of acres that surround it in the Catoctin Mountains. I know first hand how pretty the woods are there. That vacation would not cost the people too much.
Back in the 70's I decided to take two of my grandson's for a two week hike. While hiking through the woods we accidently ventured onto the grounds of Camp David. It was not fenced or posted. I was checking my compass to look up at a man in cammo pointing an automatic at me. What the %%%? He said "what are you doing here?" I simply told the truth," taking a hike." This guy was having a bad day, he told us to take our hike in the other direction. "We were trespassing on the private grounds of Camp David." Looking at that nasty face holding an automatic I decided not to pursue it; as in "these woods belong to all tax-paying Americans." He could have invited us in for a cold glass of iced tea or lemonade; that would have been nice on a hot summer day.
I had to laugh about that event later. I compared it to a trip my wife and I had taken in the 1950's to Southern Asia. It was getting hot so we decided to head north into the mountains of Nepal. When we got to Kathmandu we settled in. It was a great city. We rented a pair of bicycles to venture out into the country side. Some miles out we came upon "stairs" running up the side of a mountain. There must have been a thousand and one of them in stone. This was like the Washington Monument, the Empire State Building, the Eiffel Tower; you have to climb the stairs.
So climbed and climbed we did. Reaching the top the view across the valley was beautiful. We sat down on a bench that someone was kind enough to provide. Even in the deep silence of the woods I did not hear the man coming up on us. He was in a uniform and was holding some antique rifle. This kindly man had a smile on his face and greeted us with an hello. Still smiling he asked us if we knew where we were. We had no clue, but it was really a sight. He said this is the King's Palace. We had to laugh. This time we were invited in for tea.
So, yesterday, Obama was asked to clarify the mission, objection, and exit strategy.
His response? "I suspect in a few days, you will have clarity."
He "suspects"? "in a few days"?
Should not the clarity be in place BEFORE we start dropping bombs?
Question is...
Does HE have clarity...?
If you can't figure out on your own that acting quickly to prevent the possible slaughter of a hundred thousand people is "clarity" of purpose, then I suspect nothing the President says will clarify it for you.
If he hadn't acted quickly and those people had been killed, what would you have said then, no joe?
It's all pretty easy from the cheap seats, isn't it?
So has anyone figured out exactly what the criteria is to determine a worth-while humanitarian military action is vs what is not a worthwhile humanitarian action? Best I've come up with is whether the left sees any security value for our own country- as in if it has no possible effect (Libya, Mogadishu, Darfur), it's good, but if there is any possibility that it might benefit the US from a national security standpoint (Iraq, Afghanistan) it's bad. Or am I over thinking it? Is it really just if Clinton or Obama take action its good but if Bush I or II take action, its bad?
Oh, please, nojo! Spare us your recently discovered indignation at quagmires and exit strategies. Bush shot first and asked questions later. and always with the FALSE 'evidence'.
Hitting the hate-or-aid a little early, don't you think? There are still six more hours in your work day - you don't want to be sloshed by lunch, so ease up there, sparky.
At the risk of Clara seeing this post. I do have to say Anna Molly probably knows a lot about cheap seats and cheap shots. This comment only after her extremely insulting rant on me. Don't you love it?
Tony, honey, you don't have to change to please me! And nojo and I go WAYYYYYYYYYY back. We've been sharing the 'love' for over three years now.
I'd be far more worried about Anna Molly seeing your response than me. She has a rapier wit and she's not afraid to use it.
And again, as I mentioned yesterday - I didn't intend for my rant to be insulting! Obviously, your superior financial planning aside, you know how to stock a wine cellar - so you've got THAT going for you!
You are right about "rapier". I am not seeing the wit at all.
Only if you can predict the future Dr No.
Bev, one does not need a crystal ball to know what your objective is- only if you will achieve it. I "suspect" that is why Obama has not stated one.
With no stated objective, or one that changes daily, there is no way he can be accused of mission failure.
It's called voting present- this time, with lives at stake.
He certainly was present while on vacation kinda like voting present through bi-location. Priceless! He got a UN resolution and the GOP/ TP got nothing done. You could say they voted present while absent and derelict in their duty to America. But the GOP/TP was present!!!! HA HA.
Why are many of you (redhead & others) discussing what Presidential candidates think about this?
Who cares? They are not making policy, Obama is. I, for one, can not makes heads or tails out of what he has done, is doing, or will do as these middle east dictators continue to face off against their own people.
My thoughts are mixed on Libya, but I know that if Obama's plan was to go into Libya all along, he should have announced a no-fly zone 3 1/2 weeks ago (which, by the way many were calling for). Instead he gave Qaddafi (or gadafi, khadafi, or daffy?) ample time to get his ground troops into place; making this a much more difficult operation. Had he simply announced a no-fly zone 3 1/2 weeks ago I believe Qaddafi's military (especially air force) would have largely defected and he would have been marginalized. Secondly it would have sent a message to the other dictitorial regimes in the region that you may not murder your own people at will.
At present nobody (including those dictators) has a clear picture of what our policy is or will be, so they will simply murder any who try to stand up to their tyranical regimes.
Obama; please give us some clarity!!
P.S. Clarity in the middle east means lowering gas prices and hope for our economy. Lack of clarity in the middle east (like we are portraying now) will lead to $7 a gallon gas this summer and a swan dive for our economy. I know its in vogue to blame Bush for all our our economic woes (especially on this website), but our problems really got much worse when gas rose to $5 a gallon in the summer of 2008.
@Tod.....thank you for posting something worth reading...got tired of reading the kindergarten post from both sides.
Welcome back, Mr. President. Apparently, Congress cannot function as adults when you are away trying to create jobs and rebuild our relationship with South American countries. Despite the fact they were briefed about Libya and could have debated it before their Spring Break, Congress (left and right) has hurt feelings so the House instead voted on NPR funding--why discuss the UN Resolution when such important matters as public radio financing are next on the list.
Thank you Mr.President. It's great to have your steady leadership running our country.
Increasing EXPORTS from American businesses and agriculture to South American countries DOES CREATE JOBS HERE!
Jody, by debating the issue before leaving town members of Congress would be forced to take A position. This way they get to take EVERY position and eliminate any chance of being wrong...as well as any chance of President Obama being right.
When was the once great Republican Party reduced to playing a cheap knock off of Statler and Waldorf? http://cdn.idolator.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/statler_waldorf.jpg
Well, it seems the naysayer ignored the rest of the President's successful trip. Perhaps the conservatives can explain why having a huge source of oil that is not in the middle east, one where US oil companies could potentially aid Chile in developing is a bad thing.
Why is President Obama back in DC; but Congress is still on BREAK? I mean with all the chatter about how serious this Libya situation is,...Why hasn't Congress reconvened?
Things that make you go hmmmmmmm!
Jody----Congress can't function as adults when the President is up the street on Pennsylvania Avenue---especially when Congress is on one of its vacations....er ....recesses....or whatever they call it.
He should have held that discussion a few weeks ago not while on a trip out of the US
Fox News flash alert - South America trip was about jobs.
_____________________
Snipped from - Foxnews.com
"As the United States looks to Brazil, we see the chance to sell more goods and services to a rapidly-growing market of around 200 million consumers," Obama said. "For us, this is a jobs strategy."
Executives from a number of American corporations, including International Paper, Cargill, Citigroup and Coca-Cola, participated in the CEO session...
Brazil stands out for its strategic and economic importance to the United States. As the world's seventh-largest economy, it is a member of an exclusive club of influential developing nations along with Russia, India and China, collectively known in economic circles as the BRIC nations. Obama is looking to reset the U.S. relationship with Brazil, an emerging economic power that even without being hostile has annoyed Washington with its independent ways.
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Yes, the president also talked about trying to get more oil from a friendly source as well. Sounds like a good strategy. In addition, perhaps he also talked with them about how Brazil is the world leader in sugar cane ethanol production, that and other renewable sources like biomass, hydroelectric and wind power account for nearly 85% of their domestic energy. Their renewable energy policies are creating jobs, perhaps we can implement some, not sugar cane ethanol mind you, but others here.
It's a big contrast in national approaches, Yellowdog. Brazil years ago decided to invest heavily in renewable energy. In the process they went from a net oil importer to an oil exporter. Reactionaries here in the US have fought sensible renewable energy and conservation efforts for DECADES. Now we spend vast amounts of money dabbling militarily in faraway lands just because we can't afford not to.
Meanwhile...up in Maine, our Tea Party Governor, Paul LePage, has ordered the removal of a mural from the Labor Dept lobby which depicts...the history of Labor in Maine. He claims it's offensive to business management because it contains images of union activity. This mural cost $60,000 and has been up for three years. In addition to removing the mural, he wants to re-name the conference rooms, which currently bear the names of famous Labor leaders like Frances Perkins, a woman with Maine roots, who went on to be FDR's Labor Secretary, and who spearheaded reforms brought about after the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire. Folks, this is what the Tea Party has wrought: an attack on working people, on history, on commonsense. The governor said he was going to bring jobs to Maine, but he seems to want to advertise to the corporations that we can be exploited, our rivers polluted once again, and our labor had for cheap.
http://new.bangordailynews.com/2011/03/23/politics/mural%e2%80%99s-planned-removal-heats-up-labor-dispute/#
Amy, thanks for the report.
I knew little about Maine's Governor. But now, when I visit the great state as I do every summer, I may give him a campaign contribution.
Good for him. Even in my native New England, the moonbats are on the run...
Amy -
I don't often use the word "disgraceful", but that's the first one that came to mind when I read this.
I especially like the part where the administration could only come up with ONE letter from a constituent complaining about the mural, and that person didn't even have the guts to sign their name - it was just from "a secret admirer" of the governor. Was that his wife or his mother?
On a more practical note, is tearing this multi-panel mural down and transporting it to another location really the best use of tax-payer money that a Tea Party governor like LePage can come up with?
Interesting story, Amy. Once again the GOPTP makes their priorities clear. It isn't about the people, LePage has made clear that he's more interested in not offending the New Aristocracy being created by redistributing wealth from the middle to the top.
The Maine Governor is right, the government should not take the side of unions, they should represent all of us. The government is supposed to be neutral between labor and business. Not a shill for radical leftist unions.
The Labor Secretary in Obama's cabinet, Hilda Solis, is a radical union shill. In fact, the Labor Dept was caught putting ads in the web soliciting workers to form unions!
Labor Secretary Hilda Solis took part in a Communications Workers of America conference call in which she expressed her strong support for unions fighting Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker's proposed budget. "Let's keep fighting," Solis told CWA president Larry Cohen and thousands of CWA shop stewards listening to the call.
JoAnne in PA
Now you know why writer Stephen King calls LePage a "stone brain." So far, it's been a scandal, controversy or kerfluffle every day of his term up here. He doesn't seem to know how to lead except by provoking opposition. He is unnecessarily rude and combative. Who knows how much it cost the state to put up a sign on the highway saying "Open for Business?"
The irony is, the mural is actually very well done, researched and executed by Maine residents. Typical LePage, doesn't appreciate other people's gifts and efforts on behalf of the state.
Who paid the $60K for this mural?
Gotta keep those workers locked up so they can't steal cloth and sneak out of the building with it. When the Republicans complete their takeover, they'll get rid of all those burdensome regulations about fire codes that prevent big business from creating jobs.
Does anyone remember when Attorney General John Ashcroft (idiot from Missouri - lost a Senate race to a dead guy - RIP Governor Carnahan) used fabric drapes to cover the Lady of Justice statue because DEAR LORD her BREAST was showing?
Yeah, this is as asinine as THAT! Hand that man a shovel - because I don't think we've seen the depths he's willing to go to look STUPID and PETTY!
Houston!
Funny you should mention fire codes. Another kerfluffle occurred when LePage did not allow the Fire Marshall to testify on a hearing to allow the sale of fireworks; because, naturally, the Fire Marshall had something to say against it.
People who know the value of things besides money. You wouldn't understand.
You mean like the salary of a teacher for year? Whats worth more AM, a year of education or mural?
Hey, Amy -
Hope you know you've created a monster here.....or at the very least, awakened a sleeping activist. Even with everything else that's been going on in Wisconsin, Ohio, here in PA, etc. - all of which is arguably more important than a mural - something about this just made me think of my late father (who was a union president for 18 years) and my step-mother who passed away in December who worked a number of years for the United Farm Workers. When I read about the plan to re-name the conference room named for Cesar Chavez (and let's remember here, people, this is in the Department of LABOR building that we're talking about) my first thought was how a few months ago I would have immediately forwarded this article to my step-mother (in Maryland), who I just know would have delighted in passing it along to everyone she knew - after first calling or writing to Governor LePage's office and giving him a piece of her mind herself.
So in her honor, I just did a few things too. I sent the link to one of her daughters and her best friend to pass it along. Then, since I'd had the pleasure of briefly meeting Arturo Rodriguez of the Farm Workers when he spoke at her memorial service in January, I forwarded it to his office as well, just in case they hadn't heard yet. And finally, I dashed off a letter to Governor LePage's office myself just because I could hear my step-mother urging me on. None of it may accomplish anything, but I know I sure feel better now!
P.S. to Alan - The mural itself has already provided a number of years of educational value to anyone who's seen it. That $60,000 has already been spent. Should the state now incur additional costs to dismantle it and move it elsewhere?
JoAnne in PA - Thanks for sharing. I'm sure your father and your step mother would be proud of your actions :}
YEA....................
No but they could put it up for sale and get the buyer to remove it, and pay for the cost of the renovation to the new wall (apolitical). If the artist was any good the state will recoup the money.
GOO OBAMA!!!!
Alan - Your comment "if the artist was any good" suggests that you didn't take the time to click on the link Amy provided, or you could see it for yourself. It's theme is historical, not political - it depicts things like the beginnings of child labor laws and young women working in the textile sweatshops in the 1800's and Maine's version of "Rosie the Riveters" going to work in the shipyards during WWII. I couldn't see any political connotations even in the backgrounds of the panels.
vineswine - Thanks for the reference to my late father and step-mother as being "union thugs". By the way, I've never belonged to a union myself, though I've worked steadily for over 41 years now and as such consider myself a part of the labor force who has benefitted immensely by the stories shown in this mural. But I'm guessing you didn't bother to look at it either before making your comments, did you?
Yellowdog Mark - Thank you - I'm not sure if they would be, but I know how proud I am of them.
Kinda like Biden's potential crusade to impeach W if he had attacked Iran without congressional approval? Just wondering when the impeachment for his own boss will start. LOLOLOL
Pat, Boston MA. All the rich guys Pat? Liz Taylor and Hollywood are Democrats. And Liz Taylor is worth 600 million dollars. And she is a DEMOCRAT. Can you give me a list how much the others are worth? Remember they are all Democrats.
How foolish you are. $600 million is lunch money to the likes of the Koch brothers. And they don't spend theirs doing "good" around the world. They spend it eating weak intellects like yours for lunch.
Baghdad Bob speaks again. Tell us more Birther stories Juven, those are funny!
I don't think so, True. Combined, the Koch boys are like the 4th largest fortune in the world. I don't see Soros anywhere on this list of the richest people in the world for 2011, but I do see BOTH Koch brothers:
http://www.digitalspy.com/forums/showthread.php?p=48884537
Looks like they've eaten YOU for lunch, too, True.
Doggone, it True. You're right. For 2010, Forbes has them tied for 24. But combined, they would still be #4, as I mentioned above. Above the Kochs are a lot of people named Walton, who are NOT well-known to be liberals, and a guy named Gates, who falls into that same category.
I did not find any readily discernable liberals OR any Hollywood celebrities above the Koch brothers.
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/10/billionaires-2010_The-Worlds-Billionaires_Rank.html
And thanks.
According to Forbes the Koch Brothers are tied for #18 with $22.0 billion each while George is at #46 with $14.5 billion.
http://www.forbes.com/wealth/billionaires#p_1_s_arank_-1__-1
Aha! Then my numbers, which were also from 2011, WERE right. And I still failed to see a single Hollywood celebrity on the list, although I went all the way down to #100.
Thank you, Dennis.
So sorry, True. But buck up, old chap. If it weren't for those pesky facts, you would have been right.
Anna,
The problem is that TA thinks that Soros is using his money to change the values of the US and the Koch Bros. aren’t.
Indeed, Dennis. That's EXACTLY what I meant by saying they've eaten him for lunch. Guys like True and Juven are fast food to the Kochs.
Amusing that the plotline never changes for these folks. 35 years ago the UN was going to steal our sovereignty, a world monetary collapse was imminent, Nelson Rockefeller was proof that Communists had infiltrated even the Republican Party, and Armand Hammer was secretly trying to destroy the United States with his ill gotten fortune.
Today the UN is going to steal our sovereignty, a world monetary collapse was imminent, John McCain is proof that Socialist Progressives have infiltrated even the Republican Party, and George Soros is secretly trying to destroy the United States with his ill gotten fortune.
The only difference is that then it was the John Birch Society, founded by Fred Koch, pushing that narrative and it was considered crazy even by most Republicans. Today David and Charles Koch, sons of Fred, have spent vast amounts of money to make this message the central message of the GOPTP. History will not look well upon this time when the Republican Party mainstreamed crazy.
Who cares who has more money...blah, blah, blah, blah, point is both sides get money put into their pockets....it's not only the Koch brother's or Soros. You guys are silly you are trying to defend people that are doing the same things. No side is diff from the other. To bad they don't spend this amount of time and energy worrying about you.
They do care. There are and always will be loosers who spend their life feeling sorry for themselves and always too pre-occupied about what someone else has instead of going out and accomplishing something themselves. It is simply easier for them to complain that so and so has more than they do and cry about it. Somebody owes them a living, so they think. I bet they blamed their teachers when the failed in school. It is never their fault, always someone else's.
Well Soros is getting ready to spend some more:
Two years ago, George Soros said he wanted to reorganize the entire global economic system. In two short weeks, he is going to start – and no one seems to have noticed.
On April 8, a group he’s funded with $50 million is holding a major economic conference and Soros’s goal for such an event is to “establish new international rules” and “reform the currency system.” It’s all according to a plan laid out in a Nov. 4, 2009, Soros op-ed calling for “a grand bargain that rearranges the entire financial order.”
Here we go people. And Obama is part of Soro's Puppeteering.
And to find out how just hop on the next train to Beckistan.
History will not look well on this time when the Republican Party mainstreamed crazy.
what i want to know is the tax payers provideing the money for obama to take is wife ,daughters and mother-inlaw on these trips just lke pisolotsi;s trip
Go OBAMA!!!!
Great idea, Please go, Please!
If it was not a vacation but a work trip why did the family go? Just asking.
The War Powers Resolution of 1973 (50 U.S.C. 1541–1548) was a United States Congress joint resolution providing that the President can send U.S. armed forces into action abroad only by authorization of Congress or if the United States is already under attack or serious threat. The War Powers Resolution requires the president to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days, with a further 30 day withdrawal period, without an authorization of the use of military force or a declaration of war. The resolution was passed by two-thirds of Congress, overriding a presidential veto.
On October 23, 1984 the Marine Barracks in Beirut, Lebanon was razed by a suicide bomber. Two hundred forty one U.S. servicemen were killed and in a separate bombing two minutes later fifty eight French paratroopers were killed in their Barracks.
President Regan declared this a “despicable act” and vowed to keep a military presence in Lebanon. So two days later on October 25, 1983 he authorized the invasion of the Island of Grenada in the Caribbean. Wow that makes sense don’t it. None the less this action gave rise to this court case.
Conyers v. Reagan is a case that challenged the U.S. invasion of Grenada.
Description
In October 1983, President Ronald Reagan announced that he had ordered a pre-dawn invasion of Grenada by nearly 1,900 Marines and armed airborne troops under the code name “Urgent Fury.” The fighting was heavier than expected and by the end of the month, the United States military presence had reached more than 5,600 troops. After a few days of heavy fighting and a number of deaths, the shooting ended.
The invasion and occupation constituted, within the meaning of the War Powers Clause of the U.S. Constitution, a war against the people of Grenada. The President, however, at no time sought the required congressional approval. He justified the invasion by claiming falsely that the lives of U.S. medical students were in danger. The same pretext was given to justify the U.S. invasion of the Dominican Republic in 1965.
The court granted the government’s motion to dismiss on the ground that the congressional plaintiffs had other remedies. The plaintiffs appealed and the federal appeals court ruled that the case was moot since most U.S. troops had been withdrawn from Grenada.
http://ccrjustice.org/ourcases/past-cases/conyers-v.-reagan
Since President Reagan kind of had a penchant for this kind of thing you might also want to check out this one that dealt with his introduction of fifty five “advisers” in El Salvador in 1981.
Crockett v. Reagan is a case which challenged U.S. military involvement in El Salvador in the first suit under the War Powers Resolution
http://ccrjustice.org/ourcases/past-cases/crockett-v.-reagan
BTW President Reagan ordered withdrawal of the Marines in Lebanon on February 7, 1984. No serious action was ever taken in this Theater.
So we can argue the rightness or wrongness of President Obama’s actions in regard to Libya but as long as the requirements of the War Powers Act have been met then the legality of those actions is a moot point. Already been there and done that.
Is the War Powers Act constitutional? Good Question. The Court has already more or less said that since the Congress has other remedies available that they aren’t going to get into it to far. In other words the Congress passed the law so it’s up to them to change it. Given the amount of consternation that has been expressed over the years it would be a good conversation for the Congress to have. I think the possibility of Mr. Kucinich and Mr. Paul agreeing on something would be fascinating. Who knows the conversation might even lead our Representatives to actually start talking to one another instead of just making ugly faces like a bunch of school kids.
Problem is who’s going to convince Speaker Boehner to give up some of his Spring Break and come on back to Washington and put the question on the agenda. As has been the case since first of the year so far all we have seen is a willingness to provide sound bites for the titillation of the various media outlets and their assorted audiences. Last time I checked the provision of sound bites ain’t what we’re paying for.
On the subject of Libya, did Reagan get the consent of Congress when he tried to kill Gaddhafi with a missile and killed his young daughter instead? Attempting to assassinate the leader of another country is certainly an act of war.
Short answer Houston No. President Reagan in most cases chose to simply ignore things unless they fit his perception.
Houston! There you go, don't you know there are different rules for Republican Presidents?
Barack Obama needs to get a big cowboy hat, saddle up and go for a ride on the trails, cause that's the only "image" the media can relate to as an authority. They can't accept a leader who listens to women...eeeck! A man who has a functioning family life. An American President who actually talks to allies like equals. Egad! Who is this Barack Obama? He's so "Other" (according to people who have never meet well educated, intelligent, normal professionals before.)
Great history lesson IR, thanks for sharing. Sometimes it's hard to keep track because Conservatives rewrite it so aggressively.
No, Barack Obamy just needs to try to become a man rather than a liberal. It is hard to understand if you aren't one.
Most of you in here was kids when Reagan was POTUS or you are too old now to remember.
Attempted assasination is not an act of war. If the US government truly wanted Ghadafi gone, the CIA would have already taken him out.
Executive Order 12333
On 4 December 1981 President Ronald Reagan signed Executive Order 12333, an Executive Order intended to extend powers and responsibilities of US intelligence agencies and direct the leaders of U.S. federal agencies to co-operate fully with CIA requests for information.[1] This executive order was entitled United States Intelligence Activities.
It was amended by Executive Order 13355: Strengthened Management of the Intelligence Community, on August 27, 2004. On July 30, 2008, President Bush issued Executive Order 13470[2] amending Executive Order 12333 to strengthen the role of the DNI
Part 2.11 of this executive order reiterates a proscription on US intelligence agencies sponsoring or carrying out an assassination. It reads[1]:
No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination.
Previously, EO 11905 (Gerald Ford) had banned political assassinations and EO 12036 (Jimmy Carter) had further banned indirect U.S. involvement in assassinations.[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_12333
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Middlin’ if you’re going to insist on coming around letting your Alligator overload your Hummingbird at least take the time to get your facts straight.
Great post, IR; always good to point out history.
It seems Pres Obama met that 48-hr notification mentioned. Boehner and friends instead of debating the UN Resolution and what the Pres told them chose to defund NPR before Spring Break. That way, all the little legislators could cry "foul" this week and make a lot of weird noises.
Honestly, assassination of foreign leaders is forbidden under our laws. Yes, it is illegal. No agency is permitted by law to simply assassinate foreign leaders which is exactly why Reagan took a lot of flack for his action in Libya. That does not mean they haven't tried but it is illegal.
Correction to my post, I said law but it is by Executive Order. Assassination of foreign leaders is prohibited under Executive Order 12333 in effect since the 1970's.
IR:
Since you know so much why don't you read before you run off at the mouth.
I said ASSASINATION ATTEMPT IS NOT AN ACT OF WAR.....I didn't say a damn thing about it going against an executive order. I think being a former member of the SF, I am aware of EO's against assassination attempts.
Kick Rocks
Middlin' my big bad Playground Warrior. I'm not going to do all the work for you. Go back and read the entire executive order and then go back and study the Geneva Conventions and the Hague Protocols and you will find at least three different sources to explain to you why under certain circumstances even the Attempt to assassinate a countries leader is an act of war. What in the heck do you think started World War one. As far as being a member of the Special Forces I doubt it. See those fellows value Brains over all other things and judging by what I've seen for the last couple of years out of you you ain't got enough to even be considered. Matter of fact I'm not sure how you'd slip by a recruiter in the first place unless you had somebody take the test for you. Far as I can tell there sport you're a Legend in your own mind.
Juven. Try to keep up. Not all Hollywood types are democrats.
True, that. Clint Eastwood and Charlton Heston immediately come to mind. Jimmy Stewart, and I think Harrison Ford, too, in the early years. Not so sure about now. And I think some of the younger bubble-headed types, like Britney Spears, lean right, as well.
Don't forget that great hollywood actor, oh what was his name, starred in "Bedtime for Bonzo" opposite a chimp.....
And there was that other one, kept promising that "I'll be back..."
Tom Sellect (a favorite of mine) leans libertarian, Chuck Norris is far right in Huckabee's camp and there's plenty of others. This belief that all Hollywood is democrat along with the "liberal media" belief (seeds planted by conservatives) is just a myth.
FYI: regarding popular, well known Hollywood Conservative actors? FAR more than most would guess and one of my favorites is Denzel Washington!
Here's a TRUE sample of Denzel that the LIBERAL press buried very well:
Denzel Washington completely Nails Katie "Ultra, brain-dead Liberal" Couric :-)
Meryl Streep and Denzel Washington were on the today show "live" with Katie Couric to talk about the movie "Manchurian Candidate."
At one point Katie asked Denzel, "have you seen Fahrenheit 9/11?" To which Denzel replied, "No, and I have no intentions on seeing it." Katie and Meryl were "so noticeably" taken aback! It was so cool!
Then, a discourse (or more preferably, a fight!) began between all three of them with Denzel being barraged with all kinds of anti-Bush, anti-republican comments, but "the man stood his ground" and soon
enraged the women so much that they couldn't get a word in edgewise. Meryl Streep turned blood red and she sat with her legs crossed and her one leg shaking up and down, fuming!
Then Katie uttered the words that put the final nail in her coffin, she said to Denzel, "You see, that's the problem I have with 'you people'."
She of course did not get to finish her sentence because Denzel pounced on her verbally by responding "YOU PEOPLE! YOU PEOPLE! Just what do you mean you people!
Do you mean "You People" as in me as a Christian,
or do you mean "You People" as in me as a REPUBLICAN?
She, in "her classic cheerleader manner" then tap danced her way through the next minute of the show.
But Denzel went out fighting and declaring that Fahrenheit 9/11 is nothing but propaganda and lies distorted to support a cynical democratic film director's views.
When there's a celebrity that deserves to wear the uniform in movies and I don't mind at all.
Everybody else is a hypocrite!
of course the liberal media is trying to hide this... or "conveniently NEVER mentions this story?"
Wow. A French jet shot down a Libyan war plane. That will upset the neo-cons. No more french fries at the Gingrich (he could lose a few pounds) household.
Silly me! I was under the impression Newtie was still munching on the 'freedom' fries! lol
I agree he could stand to lose a few pounds, although, the latest Mrs. Newtie must find his 'love handles' HOT!
The French didn't actually shoot it down. It had just landed and the French took it out because it had been flying in the no fly zone. I am not sure the French have the ability to shoot one down that is in the air.
When you leave the country Mr. President, Republicans and Democrats start acting Bat#$it crazy! It's like a bunch of spoiled brats who need the attention. Can't function without the parent in the room. Hope your trip brings us jobs. Glad to have you back. Give them a thorough "verbal spanking" type of speech and lets move on. The nation is behind you on this Libya thing.
Yes Mr. President you can do things against the rules and we will just follow along like mindless sheep,maybe we will blame Bush. Mr President maybe you should hire the omniscient and condescending AnaBanana for a position in your cabinet. She clearly thinks you do no wrong.
AnaBanana, all too true; and we thought they were all adults.
The President did not break the rules and those who say he did should go back and read IR's post above which provides the law that Congress itself passed which allows any president to do the same. President Obama met the criteria of 48-hr notice, our involvement is short term, etc.
Obama gave Brazil $2 BILLION for oil exploration. There will be jobs....for Brazilians. He's got our oil UNEMPLOYED Gulf people waiting for EPA drilling permits. Convince me that Obama loves our country. Go ahead....try. He's our enemy within.
When you quote things like this always provide the source annirich. Even if it is true, one thing all "adults" on this post realize is the U.S. doesn't give away money. There are always strings attached. Many strings.
There you go, Patrick, bringing up the neo-cons, only the people responsible for American foreign policy during the eight years of Bush's administration. But we are not allowed to talk about them and how their policies failed, because there is a new administration in D.C., who are not neo-cons, who are trying a different approach, and that upsets the chattering class. They are determined not to give the new administration the CHANCE to fail.
Amy, for the life of me I can't even figure out how the Neocons are even allowed to show their faces in public in the guise of "experts." Experts actually know things and demonstrate a little success. These "experts" are the folks who said we'd just roll our military from one country to another through the Middle East, leaving lots of smiling, waving, grateful new devotees of democracy behind them. It'd be quick, it'd be painless, and because those countries had oil they'd pay for it all!
And now they have the nerve to criticize.
How many days away are we again? I keep wondering and asking if we will put the prisoners from Libya in Gitmo? Can't seem to get an answer. The violence in some of those other middle eastern countries is heating up against civilians. Where is our next humanitarian "military" action? Ops, we can't lead though.
Tony C-2383666
How many days away are? I keep wondering and asking if we will put the prisoners from Libya in Gitmo? Can't seem to get an answer.
Well, the scary Republicans turned GITMO down 2 times. The NIMBY don't want a prison which is empty in Illinois, high security at that, to house the Gitmo detainees.
They're such a bunch of cowards; would you agree?
True Bev, and in the process they left us with a festering problem, a toxic waste of issues of their creation. Equal Justice for All? Not as long as Gitmo remains open. Home of the brave? Not brave enough to think a mere Supermax prison is capable of withstanding some guy with a Quran. The fact that our justice system is good enough for White Supremacists but not for Muslims doesn't do much to defuse that feeling that Americans are racists, either.
Bev, if you live in Chicago you should be more concerned about the billion dollar budget deficit in the Chicago schools. The point is Obama made a campaign promise, remember? It is always somebody else's fault. So how many days away are we from turning over command and control of this Libya situation? So where is the next humanitarian mission?
John B, the excusses and justification for Obama to make mistakes and break promises based on mistakes Bush made is not going to solve anything. The mistakes Bush made are a fact. To keep complaining about it is just crazy. Obama was very naive when he took office. He will continue to eat his words. If you refuse to see that, so be it. Obama is in office and he will be judged by what he does, not the mistakes Bush made while in office. There is a reason why the majority of the country says we are headed in the wrong direction.
Why isn't the GOPTP proud of the fact they blocked closure of Gitmo? They worked hard for that, and now they don't want to brag about it? Instead Conservatives are determined to make this President Obama's issue. That speaks volumes as to the wisdom of keeping the place open right there.
If Conservative ideas really worked they'd be shouting it from the rooftops instead of trying to hide from the reality of what they've done.
That answered the question?
"You can't blame me I put the French in charge."
Is this how Barack Obama will defend himself in the War Crimes Trials?
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Barack Obama has fired more cruise missles than all other Nobel Peace Prize recipients combined
Now that's some funny stuff! Thanks Madison!
So, Madison, you agree with Newt Gingrich #1 who's against the Libyan intervention, and opposed to Newt Gingrich #2, who is for it. At least one of them must be the real Newtie's evil twin. Or maybe they both have an evil twin.
Hi Houston!
Everybody is beginning to SUSPECT that OBAMA is the evil twin of BUSH Obama is even MORE confused than Bush FIRST Obama said G-Daffy has to go then SECOND Obama orders a military strike against everybody BUT G-Daffy.
How stupid is that?
Hey Madison.
Maybe if you knew anything at all about these situations you wouldn't spout out a load of unfounded criticism. According to your Bush-like logic, we should just bomb Tripoli to the ground to get Kadaffi?
Like, we should completely disregard the UN resolution which outlines which operations are to be legally undertaken under international law. Who cares what the world thinks, if Obama was a real leader he'd ignore the UN completely and just bomb indescriminately huh?
You do know that this is not our war really, we are there to support our allies and to stop the loss of 100s of thousands of lives.
The choices are first, to ignore the situation and let them all die, while refusing to help our allies and friends (I know I know, you people would rather insult them to sound more American). Or second, to do the moral and responsible thing and help our allies, and help those people from being exterminated by Qadhaffi's tanks and planes.
The resolution is very specific. We have a no fly zone, and massive armor divisions preparing to raze cities will be destroyed. Most of the air strikes being done are with UK and French air forces anyway.
Now I may not be the most informed, but dang I have a way better handle on the story than you. I'm just going to quote your last sentence because I'm still trying to puzzle out what it means if anything:
"FIRST Obama said G-Daffy has to go then SECOND Obama orders a military strike against everybody BUT G-Daffy.
How stupid is that?"
How stupid are you? I don't think you have one tiny clue about this. It's tantamount to the public safety irrational people like this are kept far from public office.
I'm incredibly thankful we have the opposites of this intellect to guide us through these troubled times. They will froth at the mouth about anything to hate Obama. No matter how illogical or how many times they contradict their own positions.
Pew poll shows Obama would win against a generic republican. Boehner has had his chance, time to take the congress back.
he had his chance? the new session has been in office 3 months!
If I took a poll of 90% dumbocraps and 5% Republicans and 5% independents I could say Dumbama would win too. The polls are cooked every day.
How about neither side gets voted back in and we start a new game with new people. News flash you Libs and Conserv....neither side has done sh*t , budget....nope....tax reform, regulations for business so we can help create jobs....nope, but we have continued to argue, tell some jokes, disagree, laugh, name call, laugh and pretend to not like each other. That is what your congress has accomplished even if libs, dems whatever you wanna call them get back in what will change, NOTHING just like when the Rep conserv again whatever ..what has changed NOTHING.
0bummer does more to make sure every day that he is a 1 term POTUS - the gift that keeps on giving.
Really???? Isn't that how long the Republicans gave President Obama to fix Bush's mess?
But but...
If you just wait a little longer we swear Boehner will create jobs. Remember he got elected on his oh so secret jobs plan. He couldn't tell us what was in that plan during the election because... uh.... he didn't want the liberals to steal it and take credit!!!
Come on Boehner where's the jobs plan you got elected saying you'd work on jobs.
Instead, they're taking every opportunity to attack the middle class and have obstructed multiple bills aimed at job creation.
Boehner has no jobs plan and they haven't done anything except to vote themselves extra days off, and serve the corporate agenda to further corrode the middle class.
Interesting bet that if Obama was in the senate he probably would have voted no and not supported this "military" action. Or maybe just "present".
After the wonderful wine last night you want to start off the day being churlish? Why?
Clara, you caught me! I already have my eye on that bottle of Valdicava Brunello di Montalcino, Madonna del Piano Riserva 2001 that I have been saving. It is the last one and will break my heart to drink it. Looks like my above try at humor failed? You must watch O"Reilly. Great word. I have been told I am difficult to work with though. Very demanding, but fair. Good insight.
That's funny. My experience with you out here counsels me that you're not fair at all -- rather, you're narrow-minded, ignorant, arrogant, and authoritarian. You assume you know all about other people when you really know nothing. You value money above all else and believe that personal greed is a virtue.
All the fancy wine names that you can cite can't make a silk purse out of you.
Still bitter I see. Wow, You should read your own posts. Great personal attack, keep up the good work. Didn't Obama ask you to be more civil? Ah, what the he.., I don't fault you for not taking his advise, he says a lot of things. You really don't need to remind me that you disagree with my position on issues I can tell by your thoughful fact based response.
Clara, let me ask you. Was that attack by Anna Molly appropriate? Remember now, I have fond memories of taking my family to and staying at Country Club Plaza for Thanksgiving and watching the light go on. Harry T is one of my favorite Presidents. I love the Truman Library. Just a little influence before you vote so to speak.
Obama only knows how to do "Present"....a real descisive man that one.
Tony,
Don't drag me into a three way with Anna M. I resort to a line from one of my favorite movies:
'Never get involved in a land war in Asia,' but only slightly less well known is this: ' Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line.'
I am quite sure you can handle whatever she serves up. And for the record MOST of the attacks here aren't necessarily appropriate. Take yours against me, just yesterday! You roll with it.
And I live about five minutes from the Country Club Plaza and Thanksgiving Lights are an annual tradition. I have actually never been to the Truman Library - I am sure I will be taking my Girl Scouts there next year, though!
Close, but not Sicilian. Yes, took my family to KC for Thanksgiving and to see the Christmas lights go on several times when my daughters were young. It is something to see. The Truman Library is the tops. Read the book, Plain Speaking. We sure could use someone with his approach and common sense. Trust me, I can handle it, but that wasn't the point. What a way to go through life. Instead of going for it, look around and come to some crazy conclusion that you were robbed.
If a Republican were in the White House, Boehner and his cronies would be on their knees kissing his or
her a-- over Libya!
Chumlee,
Pawn stars boss Ric told you to get back to work!
Okay,...I give you props for a really funny moniker, Chumlee!
I love that show. Too bad there is an imposter posting disrespectful crap.
Man Ive never seen such a collection of self righteous blowhard no nothings in one place.Except Washington that is
Chumlee
Plain and simple you're right my friend. It's their natural instinct to cheer any war, legal or not. That's what keeps the military industrial stock prices up. Also what keeps the military industrial lobby checks up.
It's funny how at first they supported this (Newt Gingrich) and immediately turned around on it because they can't have Obama looking good now, can they?
So they were all for war breaking Geneva Convention provisions to go into Iraq, but now that we have a few airstrikes (not a decade long war and occupation) that are approved by a UN resolution they're not for it.
Iraq cost trillions killed 100s of thousands, lasted a decade, and was illegal - for it.
Libya's cost will be miniscule in comparison, will save 100s of thousands, will be over very soon, and is completely legal - against it.
What a bunch of two faced hypocrites.
Welcome back? From what? A vacation? This idiot never should have left. The only reason he waited 3 weeks to decide on Lybia is he had to get HIS VACATION in order. This guy can's run a country. He can't run a military. He hasn't a clue on health care. Why there isn't an uprising and it's not Obama being ousted from his rule is beond me.
47% of registered voters say they would like to see Barack Obama reelected, while 37% say they would prefer to see a Republican candidate win the 2012 election, according to the survey by the Pew Research Center.
It just kills them that President Obama is more popular than Ronald Reagan at this point in his term, doesn't it Dennis? http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Approval-Center.aspx
sicofdems...You are an idiot. Take your hatred and ignorance to the FOX blog.
Everyone has a right to their opinion whether you like it or not is your problem. Name calling on this vine amazes me since most are adults. Most sound like big overgrown kids and bullies.
sicofdems..........................turns out the Pres can handle a few things at a time...............I imagine he did that in his honors and law review duties at Harvard.............GOP seem dumbfounded with the intelligent President......................
There is talk of impeachment, and you don't have to be unpopular to have that happen. Look at Bill Clinton. He was very popular after getting his BJ and he was still impeached. It just happened that the Senate didn't care if he lied about a BJ. So he didn't have to leave office.
And you can't run a newsvine post with any semblence of logic. You sound like every other Fox parrot. Tomorrow you'll be repeating some other Glenn Beck sound-byte.
Polly wanna cracker? Polly wanna cracker? Polly wanna cracker? Squaaaaaaaaaaawk!
DelFairChild
"There is talk of impeachment"
Yeah but only from ridiculously fringe wing nuts so nobody takes it seriously.
Please try. I want to laugh at you clowns wasting billions on an impossible goal. Is that how you guys create jobs? Throwing away billions on petty political posturing?
Right here and now, I'll bet my life that your side never comes remotely close to impeaching this President.
DM you're right, but at this point Conservatives are desperate to divert attention from their war against the middle class and all the fact that their agenda is totally different from what they've promised. Yesterday Karl Rove was on Hannity's radio show and the ONLY thing they talked about was impeaching the President. Look for a full court press on this issue from the wingnuts.
@John B--that is what they're best at. Perception manipulation. They are so skilled at it and the masses fall for it every time. If they would just use their powers for good.....
It's always hard for the Republicans when President Obama acts as they would want. They can't congratulate him for acting effectively and instead reduce themselves to talking about style point issues like 'define the mission' (Boehner) or 'this was poorly executed ' (Gingrich).
They can't argue that the humanitarian issue was invalid or that Ghaddafi is someone who should stay in power uncontested. It's a political, not a real problem.
"It's always hard for the Republicans when President Obama acts as they would want. They can't congratulate him for acting"
Bingo! It's all about the next election, forget about focusing on what needs to be done today. They feel they have to spin setting up a no-fly-zone over Libya, something they urged the President to do, into a ill-considered action. It all comes down to wanting America to fail, so they can once again, ascend to power...and do what? Set up a no-fly zone in Libya, but this time with private contractors, so bidness can make some money off it?
Amy- Hilliary pushed the no-fly zone.
It is time HE stopped going on these "look at me" tours. Someone PLEASE tell him what it costs to fly him and his family around on Air Force One. And WHY would he start another war and announce it from another country, who by the way did NOT support it to begin with. I think THIS shows more than anything his lack of leadership skills and disregard for our servicemen and women and what it REALLY means to to be at war. One term and out for this administration of misfits. Hurry up 2012 before HE completely destroys this country.
It's all semantics -- this is not a "war," nor a "declared war." It is a UN backed, humanitarian no-fly zone. There is a lot of diplomatic language used, and people know what it means. Saying "Ghaddafi must go" does not mean "We are attacking Ghaddafi." Whether or not you agree with this President, all Presidents travel to other nations to work on agreements and interact with leaders: check out all the places President Reagan traveled to during his time as President).
I'm surprised that you can spell "truth" correctly in your blog name, for what you've written is far from any truth. Take your hatred and lies to the FOX blog where it will sadly be appreciated.
K2mn, you are saying thet the person with Truth in his name is not telling the truth, it is sad that you are then blind to the truth for s/he is presenting FACTS not hearsay like most far left media outlets, then to insinuate that Fox lies is so far from the truth that you need to step back and see what is really true. Facts speak for tehmeselves and like the old saying goes, the truth hurts so you really must be hurting to not want to hear the truth. if you would take off your rosed colored glasses and start seeing the facts then you'd realize that Fox is the most truth reporting media this country has at the moment, otherwise sadly you contniue in your fantasy land of untruths.
I love it, more partisanship. Hatred and lies and all conservatives are racists. Talk about the pot and the kettle. You Libs spew more gibberish and slander than you think. How about we all ease back the collective partisan throttles?
Hey Chump.
It was for business. To increase our exports to a growing democracy and the world's 7th largest democracy.
You know. To create jobs.
The jobs your side said they'd create and got elected into Congress to create.
What are they doing now? Oh, b****ing about Obama who is simultaneously leading both a unified internationally condoned military operation while he creates jobs by increasing our exports?
Wow I feel as if they've increased my opportunities already. No wait. They've actually squashed small business bills nevermind.
Your side has some nerve whining about vacations. Fact: Bush has the un-contested record for vacation time. And his vacations weren't to do business like Obama they were to cut brush in Texas. Obama's vacation time is average for a president and many of his "vacations" are working for our interests.
You people are so blind you want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. What, so we can get another one that lays s*** all over the place?
Of course "big challenges" are in store for Obama, just as would be with any other incompetent politicians who knows nor cares about doing his job. I wish he had taken up residence with his cohort in Venezuela, same political stances belong together.
Dasvet
Of course "big challenges" are in store for Obama, just as would be with any other incompetent politicians who knows nor cares about doing his job. I wish he had taken up residence with his cohort in Venezuela, same political stances belong together.
Where are the jobs Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) said weeks before election day and were never delivered; Dasvet ?
Instead we got useless social issues and not 1 job.
Curtailing Abortion Rights
Defunding Planned Parenthood
Defunding NPR
Investigating American Muslims
Declaring English As America's Official Language
Reaffirming The "In God We Trust" Motto
Boehner is incompetent because he can't keep the House focused on jobs.
Dasvet. And yet according to the pew poll he is ahead of any generic republican. That does not say much for your bunch.
Patrick, I have never met a "generic republican" or democrat.
Patrick
Ohh I'm real impressed Boehner is ahead of any generic republican. Thats, like, all of them. He's the speaker and has name recognition so duh.
Your little poll doesn't show how far behind in the publics eyes he is to many Democrats though does it?