Well Joe if you treat your agent like you do people on here, you ought to be grateful it hasn't gone up to where you can't afford it. But maybe that's what their trying to do, get rid of you by raising your premiums and no one else. Thank about it Joe.

But hey, we've got to make sure the I got mine crowd, continues to get rich off the backs of everyday Americans now don't we?

Ins. Co. & CEO With 2007 Total CEO Compensation

• Aetna Ronald A. Williams: $23,045,834
• Cigna H. Edward Hanway: $25,839,777
• Coventry Dale B. Wolf : $14,869,823
• Health Net Jay M. Gellert: $3,686,230
• Humana Michael McCallister: $10,312,557
• U.Health Grp Stephen J. Hemsley: $13,164,529
• WellPoint Angela Braly (2007): $9,094,271
  L. Glasscock (2006): $23,886,169

Ins. Co. & CEO With 2008 Total CEO Compensation

• Aetna, Ronald A. Williams: $24,300,112
• Cigna, H. Edward Hanway: $12,236,740
• Coventry, Dale Wolf: $9,047,469
• Health Net, Jay Gellert: $4,425,355
• Humana, Michael McCallister: $4,764,309
• U. Health Group, Stephen J. Hemsley: $3,241,042
• Wellpoint, Angela Braly: $9,844,212

http://www.healthreformwatch.com/2009/05/20/health-insurance-ceos-total-compensation-in-2008/

But we'll screw over teachers!!

Joe in Albany "How about a show of hands folks: How many of you have seen your premiums go down as a result of ClunkerCare?? I'll vote first: not me, mine went up just like they always do." A fair question, Joe. Did they go up as fast and as much as the past raises? Mine didn't- can I raise my hand, considering that?

this year the increase was only 15%.

Thank you President Obama!

________________________________________

You just might want to hold off on thanking Barry until after you collect that $2,500 per family per year premium REDUCTION he promised to you.

Yeah, right. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A fair question, Joe. Did they go up as fast and as much as the past raises? Mine didn't- can I raise my hand, considering that?

_________________________________________

See post #1.7

Also, in the early 90s when HillaryCare was on the table, premium rate increases slowed to single digits for a year or two and then went right back up again to double digits. Since Barry's ClunkerCare does not include any meaninful cost controls and is based on imaginary savings of half a trillion in Medicare, premiums have no place to go but UP.

Joe says His Insurance Premiums went up just like they Always did & Not because of HCR!

_____________________________________________

Yes, they went up despite HCR, which is to say HCR has done NOTHING to control costs and premiums.

If THAT makes you happy and proud, it only serves to bolster my belief that Liberalism is a mental illness that only gets worse as time goes on (thus the term "progressive").

BTW, don't you wonder where your $2,500 per family per year savings Barry promised you is??

Good morning Feisty

How many of you have seen your premiums go down as a result of ClunkerCare??

Actually, instead of the 29% increase we saw LAST year from BCBS or the 23% increase in 2009, this year the increase was only 15%.

Thank you President Obama!

Indeed yet there are so many ingrates like Joe in Albany who prefer to listen to lies and disinformation. Some companies did go up to take advantage before HCR kicked .

I doubt if the parents with children who have pre-existing conditions or their children under 26 would agree with Joe in Albany

Yes, they went up despite HCR, which is to say HCR has done NOTHING to control costs and premiums.

So obviously, Joe, your solution was to do...what, nothing?

"I think that if rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it." - Bobby Knight

So obviously, Joe, your solution was to do...what, nothing?

___________________________________________________

Put in meaningful, effective cost controls. Of course, THAT would have been difficult and so the Dems just ignored it and put up the "Free Lunch" sign.

Joe, I'll play along. The plan I administer for my staff only increased by 6% this year but it was because we improved 2 rating tiers, not because of Obama care. My agent said she was largely seeing 35-50% increases, we happened to be the exception this time. Its the first year I've been able to keep my staff on the same plan with no changes to deductibles, copays, etc. The plan I'm on through my hubby, however, increased 36% until his employer made the decision to increase our already high deductible plan even higher so they could continue to offer the coverage. That was about double the normal rate of increase. And in the end I still have to come out of pocket more to cover the newly increased deductible.

And an interesting exclusion from the listed facts above. While small businesses with less than 50 employees MAY be exempt, that is still income contingent for the business. We don't qualify for the credit because our annual cash receipts exceed the government's limit for the exemption. While the bleeding hearts may find this good reason for our small company to have to pony up more, the real world result is that it has influenced our hiring decisions and will continue to do so as rates continue to increase as more and more provisions of PPACA are implemented

"Put in meaningful, effective cost controls. Of course, THAT would have been difficult and so the Dems just ignored it and put up the "Free Lunch" sign."

I'm really not trying to pick on you, Joe, but-

Would those be the same cost controls the Repubs fought so hard to implement the first 6 years under Bush, when the Repubs controlled it ALL? Funny, but I don't remember seeing your posts about that during those years. Maybe guys like Bill Fairfax or JoAnna or NJNB can help us all out here with this one.....

First of all, there is no such thing as a true American. BTW Surveys are highly unreliable. What if 1,000 republicans were interviewed and 500 dems and independents were interviewed? The information can easily be skewed. You would have to know the demographics of the people who are voting on the subject. The majority of people who are taking surveys on health care, are those who are opposed. Because all the people who are in favor are enjoying their benefits, and dont have anything to moan about.

But- 30 million more people (human beings) got much needed coverage. That should make SOMEONE happy and proud,

_________________________________________________________

Get back to me in 2014 when that's scheduled to happen and we'll delve into premium costs then, too.

OK. I forget the saying sometimes. "better never than late".

Would those be the same cost controls the Repubs fought so hard to implement the first 6 years under Bush, when the Repubs controlled it ALL?

__________________________________________________

Um.... I don't think the Republicans were proposing ClunkerCare during those six years. So, what's your point? If they had proposed a federal govt run HCR without cost controls, I would have criticized them also. I was totally against Medicare Part D when they passed it without even considering how to pay for it. They were acting like lefty liberal Dems and that's part of the reason they got tossed out in 2006.

Thank you Suzy.

You will note that no one will respond to your comments. Because they cannot. You presented the facts, and the cold hard reality. See none of these fine and brilliant folk actually run a business or really have any idea of the horrid effects this POS will have on businesses of all sizes. But have no fear we got Drive By being so very happy about all the coverage for all those poor folk. Well Drive By, Suzy is giving you the road map showing who is paying for that coverage. Too bad you don't get it.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Drive By - why don't yo take the lead and address Suzy's issues as raised comment 1.15. We know Feisty and Bev are incapable. Navy and Louis J obviously have no clue regarding the issues [small business], and it does not look as if Anna M. is around yet.

So what you got Drive By? If you need to go chat with you company's HR or benefits person. If nothing else I'm sure you will be enlightened.

Maybe the premiums didn't go up as much but look at some of the other things. Co-pays went up, out of pocket went up and the co-pay for drugs went up and etc. When you figure all these in then your 15% goes up. When we looked at the whole picture on ours we seen for this year an increase of 32% total. Co-pay visit from $15 to $25, out of pocket single from $200 to $400, family $2000 to $4000, yes they now have this in listed for both but not counted for both, get the picture, you can't just count the premium any more it has to be the whole thing and all this because of the new health care bill/law. As always just my opinion.

As soon as the rationing and death panels start, then the revolution begins.

is that you, Sarah?

Here's the kicker...the whole premise of this expensive, costly, beast of an overhaul was to insure the 15% population that doesn't have insurance. So far, only 12,000 people signed up. WOW. My premiums went up this year (did NOT go up the past 4 years) so we can insure 0.004%, not 15% of the population. Great job. Repeal this beast NOW.

and another thing, if 55% of the population is confused about the provisions, and 40-45% approve the HCR bill, doesn't that stand to reason that over half of those in favor have NO CLUE what they are in favor of? of course that also means over half of those who disapprove have no clue either....ah the power of statistics, doesn't really tell you diddly-squat.

Good, bad, or indifferent, the problem with the Obama Healthcare is that the liberals in our government decided to make a political issue out of this and rammed it through in a fashion that further divided our country instead of uniting our country and they did it despite the fact that more people are against it than support it.

That is not the way government is supposed to work.

And one other thing I get tired of hearing from liberals is that the rich are getting rich off the backs of the people. If you honestly believe that you have less because the rich have more, than you need an education. So following your logic, your hero Barry Obama is rich so he must have gotten rich off of the backs of the people, so why don't you despise him? So is that also true of other wealthy liberals as well? Warren Buffet and Bill Gates must have gotten wealthy in that way, so why don't you kick them out of the democratic party; they're evil right?

And one other thing I get tired of hearing from liberals is that the rich are getting rich off the backs of the people.

What I 'despise' is 30% annual increases - denial of services & denial of pre-existing conditions just so these paper pushers can continue to accumulate an obscene wealth off of sickness & suffering!

But, that's just me...

only went up 15% ??? ---- an increase of that amount is not something i would be bragging about. ---- where's the decrease so many people were touting ??

These are a few of the options now and this is just the beginning.

Most young adults can stay on their parent’s family plan until they turn 26.

Most health plans cannot deny coverage to children under age 19 because of pre-existing conditions like cancer

If you have been uninsured because of a pre-existing condition, you may be eligible to join the more than 12,000 Americans insured through the Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan.

If you are in a new insurance plan, insurance companies cannot charge you a deductible or copays for recommended preventive services, like mammograms, flu shots and other immunizations.

Insurance companies are prohibited from capping the dollar amount of care you can receive in a lifetime, or cancelling your coverage due to a mistake on your application when you get sick.

Seniors and other people with Medicare can get many preventive services and an annual wellness visit with no deductible, coinsurance, or co-payment. More than 150,000 seniors and individuals with disabilities with Medicare have received an annual wellness visit in the first two months of the year.

Seniors and others who are in the Medicare prescription drug coverage gap known as the donut hole now receive a 50% discount on covered brand name prescription drugs and 7 percent off prices for generic drugs. In 2010, nearly 4 million seniors and individuals with disabilities with Medicare received a one-time $250 rebate check to help with high prescription drugs costs.

Reduced costs of prescription drugs. Go figure, we don't need that...

:^/

Any broad reaching legislation that is passed by simple party majority is going to create a division, especially when a large number of Americans do not agree with it...It has nothing to do with party either, it could have been a REP majority, it would not change a thing....Washington no longer listens to their voters only their party and whats worse, some Americans follow the same mantra...I disagreed with the legislation then & now.

My premium doubled. Out of pocket doctor visits went up $10. Pharmacy out of pocket went up $5. I should mention that our premium had stayed the same for the previous two years. So, it could be that part of the "doubling" was just a correction for the previous 2 years.

Divided? Why not? A monstrosity forced on the people despite their opposition. A monstrosity made
possible only by employing "Chicago Politics" meaning late night backroom sweetheart deals to garner support, outright bribery, and significant costs deceptively hidden in the well over 2000 pages, Well over 2000 pages that no one bothered to read before voting for it.

Numerous other little gems are hidden in those pages that have everything to do with new/increased taxes and other administrative burdens that have nothing at all to do with healthcare. It's no wonder Pelosi insisted that we need to vote for this bill before we can know what's in it.

Obama's bunch is shrewd indeed. Throw out a few apparent beneficial healthcare tidbits up front in an attempt to dissuade the healthcare legislation detractors while keeping the disastrous portions hidden until our current healthcare system has been mostly dismantled thereby forcing us to go forward with Obama's abomination.

One major portion he's keeping hidden is the true cost of this legislation. In promoting it he claimed something a bit less than 900 billion over 10 years but in reality it will cost over 900 billion, each year. He will have reduced our healthcare system to a national form of Medicaid and in the future, when you need medical services, be prepared to go to a woefully overcrowded emergency room and wait for many, many hours.

If Obama Care is so wonderful, why is the President, Vice President Congressmen, Senators and Legislators exempt from it. If it is good for one, it should be good for all !!!!!!!!

I love the positive spin MSNBC put on the article. For well over a year I have been reading up on the health care debate and while both sides has valid points at the end of the day let me ask everyone these very simple questions.

Does anyone actually believe we can support and pay for it over the long term? Especially with the current population growth and life expectancy increasing every year.

Do you think we can support this health care system for our citizens and still continue to support other countries around the world the way we currently do?

Do you think we can afford the added burden of all the illegal immigrants, drug addicts, and career welfare recipients already weighing down the system as it is?

Lastly does anyone here really believe that by saddling employers with more tax burden it will help boost the economy and keep jobs in this country. It is really hard to pay for insurance be it private or government with no income.

While I too believe the health care system needs to be reformed I also know like everything else in life in order to get something often times you have give up something else. So the question is what are the American public willing to give up because there is only so much money to go around and we have already seen what happens when you just print more

Unfortunately the article did not give us an estimate on the total reduction in health care costs due to money saving and life saving effects of early disease detection, which will increase due to the ACA. The health improvement and cost reducing effects of this provision won't be felt, or even detectable for many years, as people's lives are saved by early detection that they otherwise would have missed. This is a front loaded cost and a back loaded benefit that's intergral to proper and honest cost/benefit assesment of ACA.

Anyone got a handle on that?

How many people remember the Democrat primaries, where Obama railed against Hilary Clinton over mandatory insurance in her health care plan during a debate? Now, all those Obama supporters that bashed her supporters for it, now support it too? I don't know what's worse, fickle politicians, or the fickle voters who elect them.

The health care bill is a complete sham. Nancy Pelosi said it best - "Lets vote it in and then find out what's in it." If that doesn't say it all about good liberals, nothing ever will.

If this health care plan is so good, why has Obama given exceptions to his union thugs?

If this health care plan is so good, why do so many people object to it? Because it's labeled Obamacare? Not in the least. It's BAD legislation that does not address the real problem of the insurance industry.

I have a question. Why are there so many issues included in it that have nothing to do with health care? Has anyone actually read this piece of crap?

Health care bill divides, confuses nation, even a year after signing

Mission accomplished. HCR was not created by the Democrats to save money or get more people insured. It was to actually created to confuse Americans, drive up costs, frustrate businesses that currently insure their employees, and back door us into a socialized nationalized health care system. Anybody that says otherwise is either lying or clueless. What is laughable are the parroted comments about Health insurance companies no longer being able to drop you when you get sick. Guess what geniuses? They couldn't do that before HCR!

Premiums went up. What happend to the Savings I was supposed to get?

Forcing everyone to buy it, definetly not freedom.

My premiums halved when I was able to get my daughters and myself together on one plan. Our premiums had been going up 20% a year.

The only talking point for Obamacare supporters is , insurance for individuals with pre existent conditions and insurance for kids up to 26 years old. We don't need 3000 pages law, billions of dollars including 500 millions taking from Medicare , army of public employees ,death panels and more to require the insurance company include those few conditions.

First this is not Health care reform, it is in all reality Insurance reform. True Health Care Reform would limit what a hosp. or Doctor could charge a patient for their services which in no way this does. Case in point Went to the Emergency Room thought my wifes ankle was broke asked about insurance I replied whats he difference if I dont have it response from hospital 1500.00 it would be 1500.00 more if I use insurance rather than out of pocket. Second 30 more million have health care there are 35 million homeless in America with 20 million of those who prefer it that way. Third don't get me started on Welfare the loafers that sit around waiting for the free Gov. Check in the mail who have kids to get pay raises that our taxes pay for. Also Obama stated that those with pre-existing conditions would be placed in a high risk pool so they would be able to purchase insurance but in the world of insurance high risk means high premiums. those that could not afford to pay for their insurance would receive subsides from the Gov. to pay for their Health care again taking from those that earned what they have to pay for more loafers bogging down the system. I currently have a Health care plan that does not cover my child until age 26, only to 23 if he stays in college as a full time student in fact the insurance progarm I'm on is not even reconized as being covered under Health care. I am on a Gov. Run Insurance Plan. Now I have to pay an insurance company and keep them in business just like the auto industry.

LOL good ol' svenolafson, back at it.... Im starting to think your paid by the republican party to spread propaganda on here bud.

First off, the health care system has been a sinking ship for a while now. I also dont think that we have even come close to fixing the problem. On the other hand, im sick of people that are just going along with party lines on this, because the data shows that half of america doesnt know what they are talking about, and a quater think its been repealed! Heres a question for you Sven, why is the public so confused about HCR? Could it be because the republican party made up so many lies to discredit anything Obama does, kinda like what you do on a daily basis on these threads? Hmmm makes me wonder.....

oskar - But you can't convince progressive/liberals that the ONLY benefit of this plan is pre-existing conditions and kids up to 26. Why did they have to pass a massive bill when the only two obvious benefits are those? The reason they did was for control. The government, led by progressives want to control our lives. They seem to think they always know what's better for everyone. Well, I have a newsflash for the controlling bunch: THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT'S BEST FOR ME!

This the exact reason I can't stand the progressive agenda and the liberal mindset. They want to remove freedom and replace it with a tyrany... Why is it Obama always shoulders up to the likes of Chavez and Castro? I can tell you... it's because he is jealous of them and wants to be just like them. Does this piss you off liberals? It should! You support the one that wants to take YOUR freedoms away... and when he does... you only have yourselves to thank for it.

So, the parts of the law with benefits for 99% of the taxpayers aren't even in effect yet, and it went up 15%. Why would anyone say "yay" to that? If it were under McCain, you'd be screaming that it obviously didn't work and that he lied when he said costs would go down.

Actually, instead of the 29% increase we saw LAST year from BCBS or the 23% increase in 2009, this year the increase was only 15%.

Thank you President Obama!

So, you're saying health care costs have risen 67% in 3 years under Obama(2 yrs) and Pelosi/Reid(3 yrs)? Holy crap. That was a pretty weak attempt to spin the #'s unless you were being sarcastic.

Indeed yet there are so many ingrates like Joe in Albany who prefer to listen to lies and disinformation. Some companies did go up to take advantage before HCR kicked .

Ingrates? And he prefers to listen to lies and disinformation? He's reading msnbc.com. Why do you resort to name calling rather than hard facts? How about the "fact" that this article left out the facts about the # of waivers handed out in the last 12 months alone and the little part about how the "death panel" claimed verbage was removed by Democrats then added back AFTER it passed in Janurary of this year without any liberal media even mentioning it?

I doubt if the parents with children who have pre-existing conditions or their children under 26 would agree with Joe in Albany

You must not know many or listened to liberal media only, because those parents have been in that boat through 3 separate Democrat votes to shoot down Republican health care bills and 1 from Hillary when she was first lady. They sure didn't seem concerned enough to even debate the bill until they had a big enough majority to write it themselves. The "ingrates" wanted health care "reform". This isn't reform at all. It's adding a beaurocracy of government offices & red tape to the process.

Healthcare Reform...BS....My premiums went up to $30 for doctors visits and with 3 kids that adds up quick...and $35 for specialists...anyone with a pre-existing conditions knows visits to those specialists are needed...

All you proponents are full of it...While a small handful of people are sitting pretty, people working paycheck to paycheck have to pay and foot the bill for your overzealous bill which succeeded by a political powerplay by a DEM majority...A lot of Americans never bought into this bill, not that we are against reform, but just the bill...You got your way..be happy...Politicians, like children, are not happy unless they get their way...

The easy answer is to let people opt out of this plan. If you want it, sign yes on your tax return. If you don't, choose no.

If you opt in, you get all the goodies like no pre existing conditions.

But then you have to pay for it.

Meanwhile others might be fine with pre existing conditions, and would enjoy paying less since they plan to always carry insurance.

That's just one example.

But imagine if you could opt out of Welfare or Social Security.

Then those that use those "services" would have to pay for them.

Can you imagine the first time someone on welfare was presented with a $1000 bill to pay for $667 in services? Wouldn't you just love to see their face?

They'd say: "That's a ripoff."

But they didn't think so when someone else was paying for it.

This is the basis of the problem. Gov't has separated those that pay from those that get.

So the grasshoppers play all day, while the ants work. The grasshoppers know that they can just take what they need from the ants, so why be responsible.

We took a basic billing problem of getting those that don't pay for their medical services to pay, and made it a tangled mess in the way only Washington can.

And in the end, the ants will still be paying for the grasshoppers.

Way to cherry-pick your numbers Feisty. BCBS has a 15% increase and you thank BO. Here in CA, BlueShield has raised rates by as much as 87% since October 2010.

Forcing insurance companies to pay out 85% of premiums collected is the true reform of this bill.

But, we bet you didn’t know that businesses with fewer than 50 employees NEVER have to buy health insurance for their employees, per the White House.

Yes, we do know that. Unfortunately most small employers will already have given up their plans by 2014 since the cost will be prohibitive. All small employers who can afford it, provide plans for their employees now. It is recognized as an important benefit, one that is now even harder to provide due to Obamacare.

To the poster who asked about the effect Obamacare has had on our premiums. Not so good for us. The past 2 years our increases were only 4% and 14%, it would have been 15% for our renewal until the bill was signed. Then it went to 34% (our renewal is August 1st) We were forced to drop our PPO (high deductible) and go to a higher deductible HSA. It has really hurt those in the company who have prescriptions. I had to pass out information from agencies that help with prescription costs. Obamacare is a death knell for small employers. I don't look forward to paying 100% of my premiums instead of the 35% I pay now. Obamacare needs to be repealed ASAP. It will create a new class of working uninsured, not insure everyone like the talking points say. We need reform, not a poorly-crafted govt. takeover.

Yes, our company is a small employer. (18 persons)

My premiums did not go up. I did get a check for $250.00 as promised because I hit the donut hole. The letter that came with my check also promised a substantial decrease is prescription drug cost in 2012. Thank you President Obama.

SmallTownPete,

Heres a question for you Sven, why is the public so confused about HCR? Could it be because the republican party made up so many lies to discredit anything Obama does, kinda like what you do on a daily basis on these threads? Hmmm makes me wonder.....

Doesn't surprise me that you wonder Pete that's par for the course. Why are Americans so confused? Why would it take a 3000 page bill, as someone mentioned earlier, to insure an additional what, 45 million, 30 million, 20 million uninsured? I guess it all depends on who's counting. I remember when President Obama started touting the 45 million number and when people looked into it over 12 million of the 45 million were probably illegals he immediately stopped using that 45 million number. Then it went to 32 million until it was found that of that 32 million an additional 12 million were found to be able to buy insurance but just didn't want to spend the money or qualified for a government plan but were not enrolled either because they didn't know how to or were just too lazy. That brings us to 20 million uninsured Pete. But just for the sake of argument let's use the 32 million number. Again, why does it take a 3000 page document, billions of dollars in new taxes, 156 new government agencies to define what the 3000 page bill says, and hundreds of new regulations just to insure an additional 32 million people? Not only that Pete but they had to do it in two bills. Why did they only ask the CBO to look at the numbers on the first bill and not the second bill? The one they hid from the citizens, the second bill? Huh Pete? Cause the CBO would have reported that it wouldn't work! Here's a quick example of some confustion for you Pete. You own a restaurant and insure 30 full time employees. Of those 30 you insure your 4 managers and 2 head chefs. Makes sense to me Pete. Servers, dishwashers, busboys, prep cooks come and go. Turn-over is really high in the restaurant business Pete. I probably don't need to tell you that Pete. Or maybe I do since you're a small town guy and all. The renewal for their medical plan comes up and Pete the restaurant owner sees he's getting a 17% increase. He wants to try and mitigate the increase by a combination of increasing the office visit copay and raising the deductible a little, ect... you know the usual stuff. Guess what Pete? He can't. If he does he'll be exposed to non-discrimination testing and he will fail since he only insures 6 out of 30 employees. Penalty = $100 a day per affected employee. He has three options Pete. He can eat the increase and raise his food prices slightly. He can offer coverage to all of his full time employees and really raise his food prices probably to the point where I wouldn't be able to afford to eat there, and they eventually go out of business. Net result 30 more unemployed and 6 more uninsured. Lastly, the owner says screw it and drops coverage for his 6 managers and chefs. Net result 6 new uninsured. You're right Pete. What was I thinking? Why would Americans be confused? Pretty simple to me.

If the plan is so great, why has Obama handed out EXEMPTIONS to over 1000 of his buddies?

Maybe the next president can just hand out 300 million exemptions - you know, equal protection under the law.

We didn't get a healthcare bill, that actually looked into healthcare as a whole. We got a health insurance bill, that only looked at insurance; and promised to pad the pockets of private insurance companies through the rather unconstitutional individual imperative. Far from a wholesome debate accross both sides, we got Palosi's measure, which Obama rather rubber stamped, as he took the back seat, rather then the front seat on debates, and let Palosi run the show. The problem of course is the country didn't vote Palosi to be the chief Executive.

And so now, though some provisions people wouldn't want gone (pre-existing conditions); the bulk of it... Hell the matter of individual imperative, if the Court's don't enforce the Constitution on this, and block that imperative, come 2014, it'll come time for protestors to decend on Washington, and have a Wisconsin like protest on the nation's capital. And then vote some of these bosoz out, or look for a legal means to start pushing for the recall on some in Congress who hadn't been able to be voted out by then :p

How many of you have seen your premiums go down as a result of ClunkerCare??

Actually, instead of the 29% increase we saw LAST year from BCBS or the 23% increase in 2009, this year the increase was only 15%.

Thank you President Obama!

The small company that I work for had a 32% increase in health insurance premiums for 2011. In 2010 our increase was 3% & in 2009 our increase was 9%. We had a good year claims-wise also. No accidents or surgeries to justify the increase. We also don't qualify for the 35% tax credit even though we only have 11 employees. There is much more criteria a small business has to meet to quality for this credit besides having less than 50 employees!

The main facts that effect the American people is that they are so prone to listen to the negative and not the positive. Both sides (Dems and GOP'rs) are going to go to the extreme when they talk about Health Care reform.

The fact is, we need health care reform.

The fact is, the first implementation of changes will never ever be perfect and changes will alays have to be made to the original change plans as we go along.

Fact ism the GOP'rs will always trash anything put out by the DEM's

Fact is, GOP'rs have stalled, blocked and fought ANYTHING put on the tabel by the current administration.

FACT is, we need some form of a plan implemented so we have SOMETHING to work with.

Fact is GOP'rs have ALWAYS held the standard (leave it alone, it will fix itself - bank bailouts - without them, we would have experienced the worst DEPRESSION in history since the black plague)

Fact is, the health care reform program has already shown some stability towards change.

FACT is, the health insurance corporations will overcharge, raise their premiums when able and suck as much money as they can before health care reform takes a firm grasp on the situations and innovates the changes needed.

FACT is, most Americans who feel comfortable in the situation with medical insurance (it doesn't hurt me so screw the rest of you) are going to oppose health care reform just because it IS change.

FACT IS, those percentages of people who oppose, oppose ANY FORM OF government intervention and label this as government control, and its not. The governmental is not going to control or manipulate the health care insurance industry, .... it is going to REGULATE it. Whether we can obtain positives with governmental regulation given its past history of failure and adulteration remains to be seen, but we NEED SOMETHING!

FACT IS, oppose it for whatever reason you may wish to create, but you are still part of the problem and not part of the solution.

SUPPORT IT, and you at least are part of the party of truer Americans who wish reform in oh so many areas of our lives where NO ONE is controlling anything, and we have already seen where no control has taken us in the health care insurance arena.

wow fiesty another repost saying nothing, as always. lmao

Actually, FR points out a very major flaw in obamas leadership ability. he can't explain his plans well enogh to garner an increasing and continuing support of them. Rahm emmanual told obama how to get healthcare passed, but obama refused to listen. see year end summary of the mclaughlin group.

Seems that obama only thinks in terms of "hurry up, get it passed" maybe latter we can discuss it.

Given that everyone has different opinions on health care reform, it doesn't change the following useful information when it comes to Major Insurance companies complaining about the revenue and opposing health care reform:

The nonprofit healthcare CEO with the highest salary in 2008 was

James J. Mongan, CEO of Partners HealthCare Systems. Mongan earned $3,376,554 in 2008.

Nonprofit executive compensation, health-related nonprofit:

New York-Presbyterian Hospital Herbert Pardes (CEO): $6,170,885

Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center Harold Varmus (CEO): $3,677,402

Partners HealthCare System James J. Mongan (CEO): $3,376,554

New York Presbyterian Hospital Steven J. Corwin (COO): $3,127,051

Mount Sinai School of Medicine Samin Sharma (Professor of Medicine and Cardiology): $2,894,580

Profit based insurance companies compensation to CEO's

Ins. Co. & CEO With 2007 Total CEO Compensation

Aetna Ronald A. Williams: $23,045,834

Cigna H. Edward Hanway: $25,839,777

Coventry Dale B. Wolf : $14,869,823

Humana Michael McCallister: $10,312,557

U.Health Grp Stephen J. Hemsley: $13,164,529

WellPoint Angela Braly (2007): $9,094,271

L. Glasscock (2006): $23,886,169

Ins. Co. & CEO With 2008 Total CEO Compensation

Aetna, Ronald A. Williams: $24,300,112

Cigna, H. Edward Hanway: $12,236,740

Coventry, Dale Wolf: $9,047,469

Health Net, Jay Gellert: $4,425,355

Humana, Michael McCallister: $4,764,309

Wellpoint, Angela Braly: $9,844,212

Ins. Co. & CEO With 2009 Total CEO Compensation

Aetna, Ronald A. Williams: $18,058,162

Coventry, Allen Wise: $17,427,789 (took over from Dale Wolf)

WellPoint, Angela Braly: $13,108,198

United Health, Stephen Helmsley: $8,901,916

Cigna, David Cordoni: $6,593,921 (took over from CEO H. Edward Hanway)

Cigna, H. Edward Hanway: $18,800,000

Humana, Michael McCallister: 6,509,452

Health Net, Jay Gellert: $3,643,342

Aetna’s Ronald Williams received $24,300,112 last year.

That’s $467,309.85 per week. That’s a very nice house.

The man makes a house a week.

Mr. Williams were to look to deposit the money in a bank– in order to remain FDIC insured

(up to $250,000)– he would actually need to open two bank accounts–every week.

Lest we lament the fate of the other CEOs on the list, in 2008 Ms. Braly had to get by on $189,311.76 per week, and Mr. Hemsley had to somehow manage on $62,327.73 per week (but perhaps he was able to save a little from last year when he made $253,164.02 per week).

That's right Fiesty - praise the worshipful master. It is so nice to see an American take up for a president that forced a health care bill on the citizens at the opportune moment when democrats were in full control of all houses. It's nice to see an American that promotes a president that has issued thousands of exemptions from this bill to his close personal friends and businesses that have union shops. I wonder why he did that Fiesty... it couldn't be croneyism, could it? I'm sure you were one of the people tearing Bush down for the same exact thing. I guess hypocracy knows no bounds, does it?

Keep on supporting this bill and your worshipful master. Tell the world how much you are looking forward to having a health care bill that has nothing to do with health care. Remember, I don't want to hear a single peep out of you when this bill takes effect and you find yourself wondering why you supported it in the first place. It's coming alright... directly into your pocketbook and when you find yourself with less benefits, waiting in loooooooong lines for care, getting substandard services and can't figure out why the government isn't supporting your needs... and not giving you the health care when you are old... tell me then that the bill doesn't have death panels associated with it....

Really Fiesty, I'm glad you support it so much... you will be a happy camper when you realize it's not everything you believe it's cut out to be. Hook, line and sinker have been swallowed by you and the health care bill will do nothing to remove them from your gullet.

Redhead in IL,

Not sure what your point is? Have you ever run a Fortune 500 company to be able to determine what a reasonable salary is? I haven't, but I did for 3 years run a 2 million dollar a year auto shop for an international chain. It paid probably what is pretty well by your standards, but I walked away. Being able to drop five grand on a new bed is great, but only if you can sleep in it. Having a big screen TV in every room of the house is neat, if you have time to watch TV. Having good health insurance is great when by the time you're 32 years old you have to take a cocktail of 4 blood pressure medications and a sleeping pill, just to function. Not to mention the monthly visits to the cardiologist. I can't even imagine the stress levels those folks running Fortune 500 companies, where tens of thousands of jobs depend on them, have to deal with, but I imagine that it's a pretty fair trade. Now if you’re running State Farm, Sears, or some other Illinois based corporation, I apologize for my ignorance, but if you’re just trolling class warfare I suggest running something with more value than a lawnmower before you get too excited. Really, I think that the CEO’s in the 3-10 range are pricing themselves very fairly. Even though that’s ten to twenty years salary for most of us, I imagine they deal with ten to twenty times the stress.

On a side note, after a year away from running the shop, I am down to only 3 medications and I don’t have to go back to the cardiologist unless something changes. I am back in college working on another degree, and almost back to the level of health I left school with 7 years ago. The monster king bed my wife picked out, is absolutely awesome.

DJDrew - you're just jealous because you didn't garner the needed education and work your way up in the ranks to make that much money. Pure class envy if I ever saw it. I don't care how much they make if they have their boards electing them to that position, make and create decisions that benefit the stock holders of the companies and get removed when they don't. Maybe you never understood what capitalism is all about and how it's run. You just look at their salaries and complain.

There is nothing illegal about what they do to make money. It's the liberals desire to stop them... but the hypocracy is... liberals never look at other liberals that make just as much money and complain about them. Tell me ONE liberal politician that isn't filthy rich.... yet you support them.

two comments ...

djdrew,

SUPPORT IT, and you at least are part of the party of truer Americans who wish reform in oh so many areas of our lives where NO ONE is controlling anything, and we have already seen where no control has taken us in the health care insurance arena.

WHAT???? Did you miss the governmental control part of this? I think it's totally disingenuous on the part of the President and his Justice Department for not fast tracking this through the Supreme Court. Personally, I think it's going to get tossed as unconstitutional but in any case it would add some certainty to the next 4-6 years. Either we have to east this crap or we can start with some real health care reform.

MmmMmmBeer,

So far, only 12,000 people signed up. WOW.

Cudo's for picking up on the NY times article about the relatively small (12,000) number signing up for Pre-existing conditions policies. Looking at the $2 trillion cost of this monstrosity (estimated) and we only covered 12,000? Great use of taxpayer money! Would have been cheaper to just pay their bills!

But of course this was never about health coverage anyway was it?

Whatever happened to REAL News Reporting and Investigative Reporting.

NBC FIRE: Chuck Todd, Domenico Montanaro, Ali Weinberg, Carrie Dann, and Kevin Hurd.

1. They COMPLETELY MISS THE POINT. a. Get the Insurance Corporations OUT of the Medical Profession. b. The PROVEN RESULTS are the decrease of Medical Treatment Costs by 80%, and c. the implementation of the PROVEN President FDR's Universal Health Care for All US Citizens (the last vestige of this is what US Congress gets for d. $42 per month (Unlimited Medical Treatments.).

Decreases cost 80% (last part of video) by Doctor David Ores, New York.1:45

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5247963n&tag=contentMain;contentBody

2. Lawyers turned into Professional Politicians by training (win argumentby any means) lie by default (lie first, then if cornered tell a half truth or errors of omission (another lie)).

a. Who In H3LL do you think is paying for (from the article) "*** By the numbers" all the money give aways. ALL US CITIZENS AS TAXES. That money just does not appear by magic (unless the Federal Reserve prints up more money causing massive Inflation, and a worthless USD). The Illegal Aliens do not pay for crap, Cash for Work Only, NO employer paperwork (State and Federal TAX Withholding, Social Security deductions, disability Insurance, etc.) as employer paperwork is used by ICE to effectively catch Illegal Aliens instead of hit and miss raiding all Businesses. From the Article, "*** By the numbers, - $2.8 billion: Dollars distributed so far to states to implement the law."

b. Due to the Health Care Reform (as stated in the Health Care Reform) the Insurance Industry gets $67 Billion USDs, Medical Device Industry gets $20 Billion USDs, Pharmaceutical Industry gets $23 Billion USDs. This is listed as the Possible source of new Revenues section of the Health Care Reform. This is why the US Citizens are going to have to pay $1.7 Trillion USDs for Health Care Reform. To say that President Obama did not know about this is false, it was in his proposal to US Congress, and was included in the Health Care Reform.

Unlikely ally of health care reform: business
Insurers, drug companies came on board early and may profit from it

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35989945/ns/business-us_business/

PBS Documentary, Obama's Deal.

Health Care Reform as payback for Campaign Contributions(for Midterm Elections and 2012). And Resulting in his buddy, "Mr. Corporate America" Legal Briefing the US Supreme Court on Unlimited Campaign Contributions. As if the US Supreme Court Ruled otherwise the 2008-2009 Electionswould be Illegal and Invalid, for violations of the McCain Feingold Bipartisan Campaign Reform Law (Act). After the US Supreme Court Ruling, "Mr. Corporate America" was fined $200,000.00 (slap on the wrist) for his admitted prior to and during the 2008-2009 Elections receiving nearly a Billion USDs from each Corporation. Why do you think President Obama already has $1 Billion USDs of Campaign Funds.

This is Legalese as "Quid Pro Quo", you get Health Care Reform passed for us (Insurance Industry, Medical Device Industry, Pharmaceutical Industry) as guaranteeingour Profits by Law, and we give you Unlimited Campaign Contributions. President Obama's closed door White House meetings prior to the introduction of Health Care Reform to US Congress. References: PBS Documentary President "Obama's Deal". Article: "Unlikely ally of health care reform: business Insurers, drug companies came on board early and may profit from it".

For those that do not believe this even President Obama knew that the Insurance Corporations managing Medicare was padding their costs to make profits of $17 Billion to $18 Billion USDs per year. Medicare is NOT managed by the US Government. Take a rough guess who is paying for this, US Citizens. This shoots your arguement down the tubes, Elizabeth Newton. Reference President Obama's Interview, Face the Nation, September 20, 2009.

And this baloney is not limited to the Demoncraps. The Repugnants, Independs(Adult Diapers) must also get Multiple Millions(to Billions) for their Campaigns by prostituting themselves, selling outthe US Citizens, etc.:

Sorry, Politicians' Dance Cards Are Full

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/21/ftn/main6228685.shtml?tag=cbsnewsTwoColUpperPromoArea

The Price Tag Of Politics (Video)

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6228712n&tag=related;photovideo

This is why when the Politicians do anything, you must always research their motives, as then you are not told to drop you pants and underware, bend over, grab both arse cheeks and spread them.

And for the uninformed that keep chanting "We voted for the President". You may have but you did NOT get him or the Vice President into Office. The Electoral College did, and do NOT start yelling, "The Electoral College Votes the same as the Popular Vote". Wrong, you thought that President Bush's second term was all about the Florida Chit thing; nope that was the US Supreme Court verifying the Electoral College Votes.

And like all matters above instead of just b!tching about a Problem, I also give you the researched Solutions, 1. so Eliminate the Electoral College, 2. get the Insurance Corporations out of the Medical Profession and 3. implmentthe President FDR Universal Health Care for All US Citizens (non Illegal Aliens(Loyal Citizens of another Nation), after all we are in a Depression (not recession, ever since the Laws that made Illegal the Causes of the 1907 Depression and 1929-1939 Great Depression were removed, Resulting in the 60-100 Trillion USD "Global Economic Crisis" consisting of the "Mortgage Crisis", "Financial Crisis", "Wall Street Crisis", "Credit Crisis", "Banking Crisis", etc. 4. So reinstate the Glass Steagall Acts), 5. Implement a larger scale version of President Eisenhower's successful Operation Wetback (Illegal Aliens are a known National Security Threat), that also set the Legal Precedence to deport "those little Frauds" (aka "Anchor Babies"). 6. Elimination of the Free Trade Agreements and Amendment that Legalized the "Outsourcing" of US Jobs, US Manufacturing, US Technology (the US Labor Unions must make concessions, like allowing Modernization of US Industry (by revoking their written opposition since the 1980s to Fully Automated Computerized Robotics Factories and Plants or face Presidential Suspension of All US Labor Union Activities like President FDR did as a factor to get the US out of The Great Depression, as well as Nationalization of all US Industry that set the skills for work (minimum wage), the 40 hour work week, saturday and sunday off (for Jewish and Christian "Religious Worship"), minimum number hours sleep, work place safety (glasses, hearing protection, hard hats (helmets), women's hair). minimum fire extinguishers, etc. as recommended by a US War Department Study to Reduce the numbers of Catastrophic Accidents at US Ammunition Plants and Factories (FOIA War Department Document), as the US Labor Unions of the Henry Ford Era were wiped out during the Great Depression and taken over by "Italian Organized Crime" as modelled after the National Socialist German Workers Party and the Mussolini Facsist Party, and the Federal Government did what the US Labor Unions could not do Nationwide by Nationalization of all US Industry during the Great Depression (Freedom of Information Act, US War Department Documents, reference BBC and PBS Documentaries History of the Labor Unions, research of the (Global) Great Depression, research of the Glass Steagall Acts, research of the Financial Weapons of Mass Destruction, research of the Federal Reserve, research of the ISDA, research of the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Law (Act), research of the President FDR, Winston Churchill, Ambassador Kennedy, Hitler, Mussolini, Hirohito actions during and after the Great Depression, William Randolf Hearst, US Supreme Court Documents, US Congressional Records, British Imperial War Museum, Munich Deutsches Museum, Smithsonian Museum, etc.).

I beg your pardon!

What I 'despise' is 30% annual increases - denial of services & denial of pre-existing conditions just so these paper pushers can continue to accumulate an obscene wealth off of sickness & suffering!

But, that's just me...

Go talk to the trial attorneys. How much do some of them make suing for trumped up medical malpractice?

Perhaps those complaining about CEO compensation should approach the shareholders of those companies and offer to do the job for less (?)

Hmmm....could it be they're not qualified for the job? Hmmm, and could it be that very few people are, and because few are, those who are can command substantial compensation?

Perhaps the basic concept of supply and demand is simply lost on those complaining.

No one seems to mind what professional sports athletes make. A CEO like Steve Jobs is by far more valuable to society then someone like Brett Favre.

FINALLY SOMEBODY UNDERSTANDS!!! Kevin, you sir have just made my day.

Obama has stated several times that if there are parts of the bill that people do not like, they can discuss ways to improve it. Heck, there's some parts of it that even I disagree with (like not including a public option). However, repealing the whole thing would be stupid, as that means bringing back the pre-existing condition, and changing it back so that the moment kids turn 18 they lose their insurance.

"So, when your company says, "Good news, you now get free health-care screenings, child well visits, physicals and other preventative care," that comes from the health-care bill."

HAHAHAHA!!!!! I love it!!! Free, huh? While we're at it. Let's make food "free". Grrr....I have to drive to work...guess gas should be "free" too. Hmmmm....sounds good. Can't show up to work naked...clothes shoudl be "free". All we have to do is break out a legislative pen and its free? This is too easy. Why didn't anyone think of this sooner?

I know. Let's offer free home loans to people that can't afford it. EVERYONE DESERVES a home, right? Oh...wait...we did do that. It didn't work out so well. Hmmmm..... :(

I guess we can give MSNBC a big A+ on spin effort. LOL!!! How dumb do they think people really are? The crazier thing is a lot of people really are dumb enough to think it is free. That is pretty sad...

People, We have to look at the big picture here. There are so many reasons why the Health Bill will not work.

1) Once they make it mandatory to have insurance is when it will all hit the fan. As long as you a are very poor or very wealthy you will do fine. But if you are the working middle class, you WILL be hit the hardest. If you are just getting by now, you will be under water then and will become the working poor or just poor. Here is why.

1) You have to have insurance. So if you are lucky, you have it through your Full time job (If you have a full Time Job). Well, when this law takes effect in 2014, what happens when your company can no longer afford to keep the insurance and no longer offer it or just decides it is cheaper for them to not to carry insurance and get hit with the fee for not covering their employees.

2) Then you have to qualify for government insurance by reporting all your financial info (including savings, 401's & CD's. Even your children s college funds) to determine how much you can pay for your FREE insurance. And guess what it will not be cheap and affordable like they claim. Want to know why? They are including the money that you do not use for your monthly expenses. So to try to pay the premium will mean no extra money at the end of the month, if it does not put you in a hole and you can't pay other bills like car, rent, utilities & Food (Food? Who needs to eat right?)

3) So you don't get the government insurance. Then you are hit with a fee 2.5% fee on your income. For a family earning $41,000 is $10,500. That is $875 a month. You still can't afford that so you get behind on the real bills (Lights,Rent & Car).

4) Then you loose your car & your place to live, then your job. Then you are totally on the government's dole.

See where this is all going? It all comes back to the nanny government to take care of us. The problem with that is there will not be enough people paying taxes or pay for the insurance, to cover everything and everyone. Then our country will go belly up. Look at all the countries right now that this is happening to. Greece is a prime example. They had national health care & guaranteed pensions that were unsustainable. These theories sound good on paper with the right things working to make it work. Our government knows this and does not care, due that they have or are in the process of lining their own pockets. It is not a party thing, it is a politician thing. They have long ago stopped serving "We The People" and now serve Big Business. ( Rich Business owners putting money back into the company and not putting it in their bank account to become trillionaires Or paying their CEO Millions of dollars, but only paying their real workers Minim wages).

That is what has changed for the worse for our country. "GREED" By Big Business owners and all of us in this country. We no longer care about each other, we only care about ourselves. We only care about all the material things we can buy on credit and living a life above our means.

If we want real health care reform then,

1) There should be NO For-Profit Insurance Companies. They should not be able to get rich off of denying people medical services that they have paid for.

2) Real Tort Reform. No more winning such outrageous law suits for a death of a loved one. Medicine is not an exact science. Sometimes we can do all that we can do, if it is your time & you die, does not mean that it was someones fault. If there is a proven Medical mistake then it should be appropriate to the mistake. Not million's dollars, that most goes to the lawyers anyway. (Just a thought, aren't most politicians ex-lawyers too? Just thinking out loud)

3) Put a cap on Medical Services that can be charged.

4) Stop covering Illegal Immigrants. In a perfect world there would be plenty of money to cover them & us too, but there is not. If they need Emergency care, give it, then charge their home country.

5) Raise the rate of retirement age to 72 or older. People are living longer now and can work longer.

6) Regulate how much Prescription companies can sell their meds for. Why do they sell drugs much cheaper to other countries? Because they have a deal with our politicians to charge us outrageous prices and in turn WE have made them rich.

We have to be realistic about our money situation, because it is DIRE!!! We all are going to have to start giving up things to make a change for the better. It will not be easy, but doing the right thing is never the easiest thing to do. That is what got us into this mess. What do we really want to leave our Children?

Jess, sadly, they're the same people who think health care is a right, rather than a privilege. They don't understand you can't create a right to a limited resource, unless of course we're going to force people at gunpoint to become doctors, and force them to provide service - oh wait, I guess it sort of works that way in Cuba.

We've evolved into a country full of people who want something without having to pay for it, who don't want to be responsible and save for a rainy day. Perhaps it's not surprising. People tend to only value that in which they make significant investment (in effort, money, or both). Perhaps health care was provided as a so-called "free" benefit by employers for too long - we now have generations who simply take it for granted. They don't realize that high quality health care comes at a cost. Somebody somewhere has to pay for it. Somebody's investment in new life-saving medical technology needs to be recovered (otherwise there will be no new life-saving technologies).

No wonder there's such an entitlement attitude out there. Truly sad.

Crystye

I agree that there are a ton of problems with the current bill, but I also see I few holes in your solutions. Not trying to be a jerk, but I think some of these points have really oversimplified the problems facing us healthcare wise. After the current bill is repealed due to its unconstitutionality I figure that your points will be some of the main things discussed in the 2^nd version.

1) There should be NO For-Profit Insurance Companies.

You want companies to operate without the opportunity to make a profit? I think that’s why companies are in business. If they’re not allowed to make money, they’ll just pack-up their profits and jobs and shutdown. Now, there should be laws in place that prevent companies from welching out on their commitments. They should not be able to cheat their customers to make profit, but they should be allowed to run an honest profitable business.

2) Real Tort Reform

I agree to a point. Settlements should be based off of actuarial tables, but this creates a class envy problem that could be hairy. I imagine that my value, at 33, with multiple college degrees is higher than that of a high school dropout of the same age. However, I can’t imagine the rioting that would ensue if my wife was paid out five million, while his only got a paltry $900,000, for the same fatal error. Those numbers are based solely off lost projected wages, not even including pain and suffering. Of course this is assuming gross negligence on the part of the medical service provider.

3) Put a cap on Medical Services that can be charged.

They’d just stop treating you if they couldn’t charge for it.

4) Stop covering Illegal Immigrants.

I agree 100%. Better than billing their governments, for money we’ll never see, is to just refuse care.

5) Raise the rate of retirement age to 72 or older.

Not sure how this would change the insurance industry other than raising their rates. You’re making the pool bigger, but older workers are going to use the insurance a lot more. Really, the only way I can think to make age a factor to lower cost would be to institute a Logan’s Run style system…and you thought Death Panels were scary LOL.

6) Regulate how much Prescription companies can sell their meds for.

We are actually getting screwed on this one. Insurance companies should take the lead in leveraging better prices. Either that, or just deny unreasonably priced drugs, forcing pharmaceutical companies to spread the burden more evenly. Personally, I don’t like paying for the R&D on drugs while Europe just pays for the manufacturing. Somehow that’s not fair.

@ SmallTownPete - Obamacare fired a torpedo into the side of that sinking ship. Thanks so much for that (NOT!)

Considering this is the most succinct, informative summary of the HealthCare bill I have seen yet (and I read ALOT of news), and it appears in a blog mostly read by the most educated Americans, is it any wonder the average person doesn't know what's in the bill? I place the blame for this squarely on the Democrats who have done a LOUSY job of explaining this bill to the public. The rightwingers in this country have been given free rein to define it as they wished. SHAME on Democrats for their lousy messaging!

PS Thank you Chuck Todd, Domenico Montanaro, Ali Weinberg, and Carrie Dann for the research and reporting.

Amy your right the Democrats did a lousy job of explaining it. But the news media did also, all they wanted to report was anything controversial about it and that was mostly the lies the GOP/TP told about it, so I blame the media more than the Democrats, if the Democrats did try to explain something in the bill the media would ignore them so they could report 24/7 about the death panels or some other idiotic thing Palin or one of the other lies the GOP/TP loons was talking about. The media gets more viewers by reporting lies than reporting facts. There that's my rant for the day.

There is no free lunch in this world. The small business's will be taxed out of business, the abortion clintics will make a fortune, the quality of care will go downhill.

Congress should have just tweaked the existing rules and regulations for healthcare and left well enough alone. What you say? Allow Insurance companies to cross state lines, limit what health care facilities can charge, and do not pay for abortions. Spruce up the Medicare and straighten out its faults but do not upset the entire industry for the whim of some idiot in the white house.

This bill is not nearly as bad what everyone is screaming about. What is so wrong with telling insurance companies to play fair? I think it's a good thing that their greed is being brought to heel.

They aren't playing fair...they are in cahoots with the government which is telling us that we have to buy a private product.

There's a difference between telling them to play fair and telling them that if the bill passed they would get 40 million new customers whether they wanted their service or not.

Telling them to play fair is all good and dandy. Tort reform would have done wonders for the costs. Just fixing Medicare, Medicaid, V.A., and Free Clinic so they could, you know, cover the uninsured would have fixed the problem completely. It would have been about a 10 page bill with massive support from the voters too.

AmyB - I concur that a very poor presentation was made by obama (the parties leader). It seems that too many democrats took pelosi's word on it being good so why bother with reading it.

STOP COLLAPSING POSTS as a form of censorship. Everyone has something valid to say. If you do not like the Facts, do the research and dispute them with your Facts.

Stop getting wrapped around the axle with partisan baloney (Propaganda).

Keep spouting Insurance Corporations equals Medical Profession and you will NEVER get REAL Universal Health Care.

Cause + Effects (Symptoms) = Results.

Read my post at #1.70. This already addresses most of your arguments. And states the reasons (motives) at D.C., Dysfunctional Congress (all Parties).

My post at #1.70 is not meant as a gee I am smarter than you, I am just asking you to take the time to do the research and verify that research with multiple independent sources.

As part of the Broken US Education System, this is NOT taught at High School (Process memorization) it used to be taught, this is only barely taught at College (development of cognitive research skills, critical thinking, Logic (Philosophy, Symbolic Logic, father of all current Modern Sciences) and to take the blinders off), at higher levels (graduate, post graduate) this is taught as Logic and the Interrelated Systems Management Approach (all factors related to a particular issue, usually only taught to the US Military as Project Management or NASA). This is why the High School Educated Only UAW does not reflect the "Middle Class", as a lack of cognative research skills (to form researched opinions and objections to US Labor Union positions).

As a US Military Officer, it is my sworn or affirmed Oath of Office to protect you from all enemies foreign or domestic via the US Constitution (why we must know US Constitutional Law), and we are the Congressionally Appointed Representatives of the US Citizens of the US Military (no voice) as well as your Representatives on the Battlefield by US Congressional US Military Officer's Commissioning Certificate. After the US Politicians do not listen, as a last appeal, it is Our Duty to inform you (the US Public) of those matters; this is NOT Insubordination per UCMJ (this is what General McKiernan and General McChrystal did, and were fired by President Obama. Firing two Generals in a row is something Hitler did for those that did not agree with him. Secretary of Defense Gates recommended not firing them. If General McKiernan and General McChystal (nominated by President Obama) did not take President Obama's deal, and resigned (at the Grade, and Retirement), then US Congress is required to hold Hearings as to why "This Administration does not know what it is doing" becoming a Public Knowledge and an embarrassment to this Administration. Again this is our (US Military Officers sworn or affirmed Duty as a US Military Officer). This US Military Officer's Oath of Office is NOT the same as the Enlisted or NCOs Oath of Enlistment. I do admit that my motive(s) for doing all the research as posted at #1.70, was to get my College Degrees (BA, BS), Graduate Degrees (MA, MS, MBA), and Post Graduate Degrees (PhD), so that I could remain competitive for US Military Officer Promotions; these did remove my blinders to see the whole picture.

Unfortunately, these (physical diplomas) are useless while conducting US Military Asymmetric Mountain Warfare, except as toilet paper; they did however from a non physical sense (diplomas) did develop my cognitive reasoning skills to think outside the box, to figure out how to get out of those life threatening situations not taught thru decades of US Military Schools and US Military Training.

Amy

it defines itself...as secretly prepared shyte...ya, 'bout says it all

What I do not see writen anywhere is the cost of this insurance over the years to the citizens if this country..I do however see that all insurance companies will make an even larger profit from this...and remember folks, the ins. companies helped top create this..so they made sure they were covered.

ivan

insurance companies will cease to exist as this scam and ponzi scheme gets up and running...but that's ok, I intend to use and abuse this "reform" at every opportunity and your children will be paying for it...happy days are here again!!!

Here is another salient fact that did not fit the narrative:

Over a thousand waivers have been granted, mostly to unions and businesses who are major Obama contributors.

Who says First Read is biased? Biased? Heaven forfend!

Here is what REAL reporters say on the subject

http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/147715-number-of-healthcare-reform-law-waivers-climbs-above-1000

You guys might want to read it.

New Jersey Stands & Deliver's!

lol, new jersey!

ha ha

No Joe: One question remains. Did you even bother to read the article at the link you just posted? Because the reason for the waivers is plainly stated.

They can't report that. It'd be played in tandem with the Obama speeches stating the opposite and make them look bad.

Besides, we'd just have to sit through another Obama infomercial on how to use it on your computer because "we don't understand".

I was kinda hoping for the full meal deal plan...can't wait till this is full force because I am going to use "free healthcare" for every hangnail,sniffle,pimple,mud butt,and any other frivolous BS I can think of...hopefully a few Jethrocrats will get jobs so I can soak them for it...hahaha...oh, artist is not a job, artist equals unemployeed bum

WOW Bill calm down there buddy. What they mean and I think you already know this it just doesn't fit your narrative, is Unlike what you've got now where you have to pay extra for "health-care screenings, child well visits, physicals and other preventative care," under this bill you won't have to pay extra anymore, so compared to what you have now it would technically be free. So you can think President Obama for passing a bill that now when your insurance company raises you premiums you at least get better benefits. Your welcome Bill.

Actually Mo, I haven't had an insurance plan in 15 years that hasn't covered well visits in full. And while some preventive care is covered in theory. what they aren't telling you is how narrowly they've defined "preventive". That free colonoscopy they're going to give you- well good luck if they find something out of the ordinary- as soon as that happens it gets coded as diagnostic and subject to deductibles & coinsurance just like it was before. Oh, and if you have an existing plan that got grandfathered by PPACA, the preventive care doesn't apply.

Good for you Suzy, but everybody doesn't have a plan like that.

See Suzy - they are both totally clueless and confounded by the actual facts.

Keep it up though, you are KILLING!

Mo - please at least try. You just look silly. Any response to the re-coding issue? Do you even understand the issue in that regard?

Suzy -

Okay, so let's say that I get that initial colonoscopy - or mammogram - for free and they discover something and forever after mine are classified as diagnostic and they cost a bit more. Getting that first free one might have just saved my life. At the very least, it may have caught my disease in the early stages where it's still eminently treatable - as was the case for me, my Mom, my older brother, my sister-in-law, and my uncle, all of whom are long-term cancer surviviors. Didn't we still come out ahead anyway? And by getting treated early, didn't we just save "the system" a ton of money too?And just because my next mammogram might be a diagnostic one and I might have to pay a co-pay, should I deny free ones to other women because I got a raw deal myself? How selfish would that make me?

Mo, maybe you should calm down and take a deep breath...

Bill from Fairfax is right on target! Pelosi said we needed to pass the bill to know what's in it, and now we do. Literally hundreds of MILLIONS of dollars just for the Government to manage this monstrosity. $30 Million for a new IRS service center to accomodate hundreds of their new auditors as well as several hundred new employees at HHS as they write literally thousands of pages of regulations to implement the statute.

AND, we now find that Pelosi and company had inserted a provison to fund HHS outside the normal appropriations process. So much for transparancy in Goverement. Guess this is what the Democrates ment by "Yes We Can!"

If this proposal was so wonderful, why did it require so many "bribes" to key senators to facilitate passage, why are so many provisions of the law delayed for 2-4 years, why have more than 1,000 companies requested waivers from provisions of the law, and why have 27 states filed lawsuits.

I'm all in favor insurance reform, covering those with preexisting health issues, etc. But surely there was a better way to do this, rather than create this obscene monstrosity with dozens of unintended consequences in just the first 12 months of enactment, with only 10% of the bill in effect.

My grandmother always said you get what you pay for. Do we really want the 'free' health insurance? The doc that participates in the free insurance plan is likely the guy who took the online correspondence course from Venezuela U.

For the record, there was no health care reform in the bill. Real healthcare reform would include items like removing/reducing FDA regs to bring new drugs to market, increasing the ability/amount that can be contributed to an HSA account, tort reform, etc.

The bill that passed merely told inusurers and businesses what they had to cover and how much they could charge to do it. (unless of course you are a union shop)

JoAnn, I may not have been concise enough. It's not that the first one's free, it's that as soon as they code it diagnostic instead of preventive, that initial "free" colonoscopy could potentially cost you thousands. Not that it's bad by any means, I'm all for rational preventive medicine, its the "marketing" I have an issue with- don't sell it as an included benefit when there's a 50/50 chance it's going to be out of pocket. I'll even go one step farther- I don't directly fault PPACA- the insurance companies are using this as a loophole to recover some of their cost, but it is why I think PPACA passing under a "something is better than nothing" mindset is a giant steaming pant-load. This is exactly why you need to take your time when crafting a plan that involves such a large chunk of our economy.

sjacobs123 -

I agree that some form of tort reform should have been included. And I think "real" reform should have included some form of public option. Never having had an HSA account, I can't comment on that.

But seriously - removing FDA regulations on new drugs brought to market? So anybody who wants to make a buck could peddle any kind of concoction, regardless of whether it's even remotely effective or could, say, actually kill you, as long as they have the big bucks to pay for the obscenely huge and unrestricted direct-to-consumer advertising campaign?

Suzy You may be the one that administers your plan at your office but I am the one the writes the check and Im the one that pays the corporate taxes. My office of 9 employees DOES qualify for the HCRA tax credit and this year for my company the tax credit will be on the order of $7000. My total amount paid in by my company per year is around 40K. This is of course much less than the 30% or so tax credit that is purported due to my staffs wages being higher than allowed for the max credit. My point is without this credit I and my staff were destined to go to a high deductible plan just as your husbands company. The intent of HCRA is to allow small employers to keep these plans affordable enough to continue. BTW I hate my insurance company, they have terrible customer service, jack me around for prescriptions requiring 3 -4 week approval times for the exotic medicine called LIPITOR. I would change in a minute if I could but as you know we are still stuck with prexisting condition clauses. As a purchaser of insurance, a customer and a medical provider this reform was long overdue and does not go far enough to stop insurance company abuses. Insurance companies are the whores of the healthcare industry!!!

mo ---- it still isn't free ---- other taxpayers are footing the bill. ---- if you are one of those people utilizing those "free" services, you need to thank your neighbors.

Nothing is free, I think we can all agree to that. I think that the Obama Health Care Reform should be repealed immediately. Forcing Americans to purchase Health Insurance? In an ideal world, it would be great for everyone to have affordable health insurance. The cost of the family plan is $1600 a month. The company I work for pays 50% of that premium. The employee is paying $800 a month out of their paychecks. That's obscene. Who can afford that? And our company provides healthcare! Government mandates such as forcing insurance companies to cover adult children on their parents plan up to age 26 whether or not they are working, living with their parents, going to school, or are married is one mandate that is forcing insurance companies to raise their premiums for all working insureds, whether or not they even have children. Prior to that if a healthy adult child was not going on to higher education, they had to work to provide for themselves. Like we all did, myself included. Their single plan was a lot cheaper than being added to their parent's family plan. Now another reason to live off their parents and not go to work or on to higher education. Colleges provide their own inexpensive health plans for students. My kids took it. That's another option. Have the government subidize those plans and increase student loan aid. Government mandates are also making insurance companies struggling to pay the added costs, cover less, limit benefits of services they do cover, deny claims more than ever (I've seen it with patients at our clinic), and raise deductible and copays so that in some cases at our medical clinic the patient is paying more than the insurance company for the service. Administrative costs to manage the managed care plans is incredible. Technology and people living longer has driven up the cost of healthcare also, but so much money can be saved by cutting the red tape and administrative costs, getting rid of waste, fraud and overcharging in the medical industry. Obamacare is only making it worse for the average working person.

Bill, I noticed that line regarding "free" screenings also. Glad you commented on that - yours, John's & Suzy's comments were spot on. Mo, JoAnne, and others just don't get it. Those aren't really free. The insurance companies aren't going to pay for them all. Pay a bunch more to get something for free....???? Gee that makes sense. O.o Like buying tires...if you only need just 1, you buy just 1. You don't spend extra to buy 3 because you get the 4th one free.

Sjacobs - I agree with your comment also. Why not call it what it really is? Insurance Regulation Reform. I'm for some of the regulations, but to tout it as "health care" is fraud. Also, wasn't there a promise from Obama that it wouldn't cost us anything? Our company is having our health coverage meeting soon. I know I'm going to be paying more each pay. I just *can't wait* to hear how much more.

Rich, I do that, too! Our healthcare plan runs us $8500 a month for 7 employees and, in some cases, their families (21 in the firm, 7 take the insurance and my oldest person on the plan is 47). And the problem is we've already been on a high deductible plan for several years because it was the only way we could continue to afford to offer coverage. I've looked at a number of options over the years to try to bring down the cost but, as I'm sure you know, with a group our size we are extremely limited in who will write our policy to begin with, add a couple of chronic conditions that land us in a lower ratings tier and here we sit. I did change providers a year (we were paying over $10k per month with the old carrier) and a half ago which is how we got the "deal" we did this year- our claims ratio was relatively low so we got moved to a better tier.

What truly bothers me about PPACA is that it didn't really do anything to address the insurance company abuses, it just forced more people into the crappy system that they've created. Increase competition by allowing health insurance to be sold across state lines, allow small businesses like yours and my firms to combine groups for better rates, do away with the absurd employer-based system all together and sell insurance on a pooled risk system like auto and homeowners. Any one of these would likely have had a positive effect on premiums vs what has happened since PPACA took effect.

under this bill you won't have to pay extra anymore, so compared to what you have now it would technically be free.

Under my own budget at home, I don't have to pay any extra for food I already purchased when I get hungry and eat it. I also don't have to pay any extra to get my windshield replaced when it gets hit by a rock and cracks.

What a relief. I was getting free food and auto insurance all this time and didn't even know it. Now that I think about it, the cost difference between liability only and full coverage must be free too because I don't pay extra for the added coverage when I need to use it. Wow!

I reserve the right not to buy $#it that I don't want!

Funny, after this passed my Insurance premiums stayed the same(They went up the previous 3 years) also, my copay went down at the same time...

Thank you President Obama..

Not sure who's plan gives a free preventive colonoscopy prior to Obamacare. Very rare plan indeed. Most scopies are covered under the deductible. Now, however, if you're on a non-grandfathered plan it will be covered with no cost sharing. This is what is going to start driving costs up. What used to have the patient's skin in the game will now be covered completely by the insurance company at 100%. As someone said previously. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Suzy

healthcare "reform" could have been accomplished in large part by ONE change and one change alone...the ability to buy insurance accross state lines...the competition goes up and you would have a larger pool to choose from...the rest of the healthcare scam and ponzi scheme is nothing more than political thievery

oh...and you don't mention one word about the "abuses" of people lying and scamming the insurance companies...and the tort lawyers that pray on the system with them...why is that?

Oh no, don't open the doors of Congress to debate this again and avoid the real problems in our Nation. I cannot take more of Nancy and Harry.

It has been to the courts. It will probably be decided by the Supreme Court. In a true Republic it should be voted on by All of the people. I call for a referendum; a National vote. I suspect that the Supreme will act as they did in the days of FDR and vote the bill up, against the will of the people.

There are experts on this issue, turn on your television and there are many who talk away about all types of things; they are "experts."

One could turn to the research done by one of the many "Think Tanks" in our country. These are research foundations who are also experts. They are all 501c, non-profit. Along with them, hundreds of thousands of non profit charities, and churches. Here I digress, in order to help balance the budget. The bottom line for the hundreds of thousands of these tax-free organizations is that it is We The People, the American tax-payer who foots their bill. They not only have nice offices, they pay high wages, and have fine events at fancy resorts. All on our dollar. The flip side of this is that those who donate their money to them can write it off on their taxes. Do you want to support that church who pickets the funerals of our brave troops? Do you want to fund that church in Florida who threatened to burn the Koran and thus endanger the lives of our troops? Do you like paying for a Foundation whose political beliefs you totally disagree with? Probably not, but you are. If we did away with this how much would be generated in tax revenue every year? No one seems to know.

Insurance! Back to the issue. Most Americans do not want what the Congress shoved down their throats, and as we have recently found out, paid for in part without our knowledge or consent. As in the will or consent of The People.

The best health insurance in our country is the insurance provided to government employees. The main reason for this is because it is being purchased in massive volume. Simple supply and demand.

If the Congress would change the law and the wording from intrastate to interstate we would all be allowed to buy from any insurance company in any state of the Union. Now, we are restricted to the state in which we are a citizen.

I could then start a National Insurance Company. Name it anything; Americans Health Insurance. I could sign up millions of people from all fifty states and US territories. It could be many millions of people. Think of the buying power we would have. One Hundred Million Strong; the insurance companies would be coming to us with their best prices and most comprehensive coverage. I think this is called Capitalism.

For a one time payment of $100.00 you can sign up now and be a part of the National pool. You are only taking a gamble that the law will be changed. If you wait until the law is changed the fee will no longer be $100.00 for membership; it will then be $1000.00. Think about it join now or join later?

How much longer will we elect stupid stupid stupid people to serve us?

"In a true Republic it should be voted on by All of the people."

You need to go back to civics class. That would be a literal democracy. We elect representatives and THEY vote for us.

As the mother of a cancer survivor I applaud whole-heartedly that my daughter CANNOT be denied due to her preexisting condition. Yes, you may say, since I usually have insurance through my place of employment she would not have been denied anyway. Then I applaud that she will NEVER hit a lifetime maximum. Most policies had a limit of $1M - sounds big, right? My daughter had spent over 25% of it before her 3rd birthday. Should, knock on wood, it ever relapse and me be unlucky enough to be covered (with NO option on my part to change it) by UnitedHealthcare, she very well could go over the limit. People said that this somehow limited their choice? Baloney. What choice do you have on your employer's choice of insurer? IMHO we give employers ALL the cards - they hold our paychecks AND our health in their, hopefully, generous hands.

Obama always was clear in the beginning - to keep premiums from rising we would need to introduce another influence into the marketplace, something to reduce the effect that having one, maybe two, major insurers in each state have. They are monopolies and requiring them to cover more people without giving us another choice WILL cost more. But "government" insurance was such a unpopular sound bite that to get necessary reforms passed, we passed by our best option to make meaningful changes to the balance of the market.

But only the truly selfish would take coverage away from kids like my daughter to get another buck or two in their wallets.

Amen to whom? The invisible spaghetti politican in the White House that gets blame or credit accordingly (depending on party afilliation) for actions only Congress or Senate can perform?

"But only the truly selfish would take coverage away from kids like my daughter to get another buck or two in their wallets"

my mother died of cancer in 1981...you and your parents were truley selfish for not paying for her treatment

hopefully your daughter never has to deal with it again...

let's speculate that this "reform" doesn't pan out with the benefits that are claimed?...what are you prepared to do?...how long do you think we should give it before you would deem it a failure?...I don't have any children and won't be having any, it will be fantastic watching your children work their asses off to pay for all the healthcare I am going to make sure I require...hahaha

If you bothered to read the link posted on the article (www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51208.html) you would know why the waivers are being granted. Is that too much to ask?

Where are the waivers for small business? Guess you have to donate to the Obama campaign war chest to qualify.

Feel free to request an exemption from receiving a tax credit when you offer health insurance to your employees. It will help reduce the deficit.

you can "feel free" to get a job and pay for your own healthcare...it will reduce the deficit

As it turns out, I do have a job, and I do pay for my own health care. Not only that, but I pay my taxes, I don't cheat on them, and I don't whine about them like a pouty baby.

You can feel free to make a contribution to the forums and stop trolling.

and your posts aren't "trolling"? hmmm..."trolling" libbie buzz word of the week...it's cool

aww, cute, you called me a "libbie".

Although I do not identify myself as so, I'll proudly accept that designation until the day the republican party starts going back to real fiscal conservative party that makes sense, not the joke mishmash of two-faced illogical crazies that it is right now.

hmmm...don't see where I called you a libbie (as in Jethro) , I simply pointed out that the word "trolling" seems to be a favorite if the libbies...you associated yourself...but you know the old addage, "if the shoe fits"

So that's the justification? It's cool to suicide bomb, EVER?

Nice job Drive By, you are a real humanitarian!

Drive by

You can't really be saying that the explosion is justified on the basis of settlements, can you? If you are, then how can you possibly be offended by the "ethnic cleansing" being done by Kaddafi? He's just responding to the nasty eastern tribes revolting from his benevolent rule.

Just in case it's too subtle, that's sarcasim as respects Kaddafi. But seriously, you think that the explosion is justified?

DBO, A terrorist bus bombing which injured 24 and killed l so far isn't something I think we should joke about. I don't always agree with Israel's policies but let's be respectful.

Yeah, because apologizing and reaching out made such a huge difference with radical terrorists, N. Korea, and Iran. What part of "the infidels must die" or nations making comments about "wiping Israel off the map" is so hard to grasp?

I don't care if they're right or not on the issue. Suicide bombing innocent women and children makes them evil.

you folks lay off of "driveby"...it's ok to be an anti-semite racist as long as you are a liberal Jethrocrat...you know like Mel Gibson and Helen Thomas...it's the party of anti-semitism and racism...keep the "po folks" where they are to secure your base kinda mentality...his other posts reveal as much

Mitch, I think you must mean that your beloved Tea party will be a smelly grease spot on the roadway of history.

lol, love how you all try, but fail to ignore the gains of nov. not only in the house, but all the governorships, state legislatures, and the redistricting to follow.

keep on trying though, its fun to laugh at.

mitch: the gains of nov. not only in the house, but all the governorships, state legislatures, and the redistricting to follow

And what have they got us?

Not jobs, not tax relief. They HAVE got us attacks on women's rights, attacks on collective bargaining, bigger tax breaks for corporations, higher taxes, less funding for social programs, less funding for education, attacks on religious minorities... Oh yeah, that's something to wish for... NOT!

Interesting that you support womens rights and "religious minorities" which I know you mean Muslim. Muslim and womens right don't go together. Is a woman in a Muslim country equal to a man? Does a woman in a Muslim country have equal rights to a man? You liberals need to make up your mind what you support. Muslims or womens rights. No one is attacking Muslims, just presenting facts about the religion. The quality of education has decreased, not increased in this country with union teachers. Unions have protected poor performing teachers for years. The only benefactor of a union in education has been the teacher, not the student. What is it you care about, education or a union?

Where did I mention a muslim country? That was you. I support the right of muslims in this country to practice their religion. Freedom of religion is one of the founding principles of this country. I also support the rights of a woman to make decisions about her own body. I don't see it as a case of either/or.

I also did not mention unions. That was you, again. I support the right of workers to collectively bargain with regards to their job. I also support, strongly, the right to a quality education. I also don't see this as either/or.

One of the differences between liberal and conservative philosophy seems to be that liberals support the rights of all to choose, whereas conservatives support choice only when it conforms to their defintion of what that should be.

You know exactly what you meant when you said religious minorities. You know exactly what you meant when you mentioned collective bargaining. It is not difficult to figure out just what you were making reference about. The Wisc issue and the hearings. I just pointed out some interesting facts when it comes to those two issues. By the way, Muslims Terrorists lean their trade and to hate others in a house of worship. As, well, I have never seen a church full of weapons.

I read the debate at the beginning of the discussions between Joe and everyone else pretty much. I don't follow politics; I happened to read this because......

1. My rates went from 25% of the premiums to 50%. Yes, my insurance rates DOUBLED because of this plan.

2. I had no idea why the rates doubled and I wanted to find out.

So after reading this, I understand that everyone has to have insurance by 2014. The problem I have is who pays for the people with no jobs? I understand some people just CAN'T work, but there are so many people out there living off of handouts ( I have 2 in my family. I love them, but despise what they do) and just being plain lazy. The "why get a job and work 40 hours a week to collect a check for $350 a week when I can sit around and get $275 for doing nothing?!?" Did my rates double to give them insurance?

I understand society. You have to have lower class to have upper class. Since when is it justified to raise my health insurance from $288 a month to $579 a month? A whole weeks paycheck for some of my co-workers?!? Some now have 1 1/2 paychecks go to health insurance. This is BEYOND rediculous.

And what have they got us?

If by "they" you mean Republicans with control of only 1 branch in only 3 months (I thought 18 months wasn't enough to "fix the previous administrations problems), then yeah I guess.

Not jobs, not tax relief.

3 months, 1 branch. Keep that in mind. Also, keep in mind that unless you want gov't running every business in the country, it's not their job. It's their job to make sure laws don't make American business owners go bankrupt trying to keep up with Uncle Sam dipping into their pocket. Also, tax relief was an extension of the BUSH tax cuts put in place by REPUBLICANS.

They HAVE got us attacks on women's rights,

Since when do all the Palin and Condi Rice demonizers and supporters of Sharia law care about women's rights? Or perhaps you missed the comment made by Maher on HBO being condemned by NOW that msnbc.com isn't even reporting?

attacks on collective bargaining,

You mean the bargaining rights of the taxpayers who pay their salary and are unsatisfied with their work?

bigger tax breaks for corporations, higher taxes,

lol, what? Didn't you just say we needed tax relief and more jobs?

less funding for social programs,

"social"ism? Good.

less funding for education,

You mean state level responsibilities?

attacks on religious minorities...

Obama firing missiles at Muslims in Iran or Obama getting credit for shipping more hispanic Catholics back to Mexico? All someone has to do is say "amen" or "pray for the victims families" on here to be assaulted by the left. Don't give me that crap.

StinkyDan

The mandate requiring most people to have insurance or be fined does not even go into effect until 2014 so that is not why your rates went up.

As to who pays for people who can't work? Social Security Disability still will

Who pays for people who can't or won't buy the insurance or are unemployed? The same people who pay for it today -you and me and everyone else either through Medicaid or higher premium rates from ER bills uncollectible.

"I also support the rights of a woman to make decisions about her own body"

what about mens rights to make decisions about their bodies?...you know, the right to not have our government tell them how they will get their health care...I for one love the idea "womens rights" to skank around with anyone they choose with no real consequence...that's more daughters and sisters to bed down ...happy days are here again!

Tom just out of curiosity you do know that only the house is controlled by the republicans, the senate and the white house by democrats. In order to get anything passed it has to pass both houses and reid will not let it get through, no matter how good it will be. why because it would make the republican party look good and a lock for gaining seats and reducing him to minority leader. Truth is both parties do it and depending on who is in power the minority is always the party of no. Just look back to 2005 and you will see the minority party defeated legislation to regulate fannie and freddie which had it passed we would not be in this mess and Obama would not be president. doesn't mean things would be booming but it would be change.

Tommy

we are still waiting for your mesiah and our king to provide those "shovel ready jobs", you know the ones that his stupidass had to admit "didn't exist", and she said Gitmo would be closed in the first year of his reign...FAIL...and he said that stealing a trillion tax dollars and spreading it around to his "pals" would keep the unemployment rate under 8%...and he said, well, you get the picture...you should probably wake up and smell what you are shoveling

Totally off topic but you sorta brought it up so I'm running with it- my favorite non-story of the week is the report that Walker was exactly right when he stated that the majority of the emails he received were in support. http://www.thedailypage.com/daily/article.php?article=32818

You mean to say it is not divided? I don't know, last time I checked, divided meant 'not in agreement'; which the numbers clearly state. Or you would prefer a "The nation overwhelmingly opposes" headline when the numbers used so not reflect it. Seems to me the slanted one here is you.

Don't get me wrong, I am not in full favor of this law; it has too many holes, and too many giveaways. But at least is something different than the path of self destruction we were on before.

Oy!

You know the tea baggers are having a bad day when they whip out the 'death panel' card! lol

story is meaningless because:

1. from the WSJ, universally recognized by libbies as a mouthpeice for the evildoers.

2. from a reasonable logical personal perspective, easy to ridicule by the left- who have no regard for human life (especially that of the authors daughter).

http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-national/sen-ron-johnson-s-wsj-op-ed-ignores-gop-proposed-cuts-to-medical-research

Oops.

Sometimes the BS that is posted on this site amazes me. Bob I got some terrible news for you in regards to this heart-string pulling infant story you’ve conjured up. We already have death panels here in this country and they come in the form of a 3^rd party insurance company. Yes it’s true. Instead of a ‘guvment bureaucrat’ we have ‘risk assessment analysts’ at the insurance companies that determine our fate. I’m sure you could Google hundreds of stories like this every year when an infant is denied coverage in this country. Oops here’s one I stumbled upon…gee that didn’t take long. See now in Canada this babies operation would have probably been covered but our death panel here in the states denied coverage.

Does this horrible story from a year ago cancel out your truly heartwarming story from 30 years ago? What is it about Obamacare that you are afraid of Bob? What motivates you? I’d like to know is it the death panels? guvment intervention? Your fear that capitalism doesn’t work in every situation? A single payor system? I got news for you healthcare is already subsidized 60% by the guvment so pure capitalism hasn’t existed in healthcare for a very long time. Insurance companies are a form of death panels in this country. You don’t have a choice of insurance plan you are at the mercy of the insurance company of our employers choosing. We are also mercy to the type of coverage they provide us with.

Don’t get me wrong I don’t mind people giving their opinion on the new healthcare law but don’t sit here and pretend that we have the greatest healthcare system in the world. We outspend every other country in terms of cost and are 37^th in outcomes according to the world health organization. If this isn't clunker care I don't know what is.

i don't know why it won't let me post this link but here it is again....abcnews.go.com/Health/HeartFailureNews/newborns-family-learns-pre-existing-conditions-apply-birth/story?id=10218514

Ah, what a sweet story by a nit-wit republican/bagger. If only my friend that passed away from rectal cancer had that same opportunity. But no, he was subject to the insurance death panels that refused treatment for 11 months, and only approved it after it was too late to treat the cancer. Hopefully this legislation will fix insurance company loopholes.

How fortunate you were that you had the money to do that 27 year ago for your daughter, Bob, #14. Not all are as fortunate as you were. 1973... Carter Administration wasn't it? Things are much different now Bob. However, the times are so different, so much has gone on; trickle down economics... name makes so much sense these days... what does a trickle, trickle down to? Not much, maybe a drop, but only occasionally. Also, glad your daughter was educated prior to No Child Left Behind... clearly, she has an education to work off of. Education has suffered greatly since those days...how sad.

Why bother now?

i just thought they had time now that the Tea Party fired about half of them in nov.

do they even know how to read is the question.

Can any one say F — — — Show! Brought to you by the biggest bozos in our country's history. And so the two year long student government day continues at the Whitehouse. Would be comical except for the danger our country is being exposed to by these raw amateurs.

Nice article Lunatic

Very nice TL. It is definitely still applicable.

You are obviously not very bright. I have government health care, and it is not as great as you think. Maybe you should ask yourself. If it is so good, why is it the congressional leaders and the President himself do not have to use the same care. That alone should tell you something is wrong. The death panels do exist. They have a panel set up in washington. When a doctor calls in for concurrence of coverage, he is then told whether it will or will not be done.

So America, you thought that the “end-of-life” care language was dropped from ObamaCare? If you said yes, you would be wrong. Obama and Democrats claimed that it had been dropped because of the outrage from the people. However, like most everything these people do, they snaked it in under the cloak of darkness through the regulation-writing process without telling anybody.

When a proposal to encourage end-of-life planning touched off a political storm over “death panels,” Democrats dropped it from legislation to overhaul the health care system. But the Obama administration will achieve the same goal by regulation, starting Jan. 1.

Under the new policy, outlined in a Medicare regulation, the government will pay doctors who advise patients on options for end-of-life care, which may include advance directives to forgo aggressive life-sustaining treatment.

Congressional supporters of the new policy, though pleased, have kept quiet. They fear provoking another furor like the one in 2009 when Republicans seized on the idea of end-of-life counseling to argue that the Democrats’ bill would allow the government to cut off care for the critically ill.

The final version of the health care legislation, signed into law by President Obama in March, authorized Medicare coverage of yearly physical examinations, or wellness visits. The new rule says Medicare will cover “voluntary advance care planning,” to discuss end-of-life treatment, as part of the annual visit.

If you think it is not there, it is.

So tell me what exactly is wrong with "options for end-of-life care", if you were facing a terminal illness (like I am) wouldn't you like to at least know what your options are ?

And how do you translate that into "death panels" ?

You're taking sister sarah's comment too seriously.

@Blackknight: End-of-life care is not a death-panel. Grow up. It's counselling for when you are reaching the end of your life. And guess what, we ALL die sooner or later. So it seems to me that it would be GREAT to have end-of-life advice. Where would you like to die, at home? In a nursing home? What are the arrangements to make for the family? I think that is incredible considerate and helpful questions to ask, rather than let people figure it out for themselves. Grow up. Besides, several states already have that, and several republican senators have supported bills to create this service. It's not controversial, and you're just stirring up ignorance.

Have you even read what it means??

Wrong Jammer, I'm middle class construction worker, my wife is a hairdresser and we make about $80,000.00 / yr . I'm greedy and don't want my hard earned money to pay for all 50 million people Barry Obama wants to give it to . The conservatives will take the Senate and the Bum will get tossed out of the White house and we'll set this abortion right !!!!!I'm representitive of the real middle class !!!!!

and the conservative national anthem is if it doesn't benefit the very well off it is not important

Oh please Jammer. With 30mil more customers in 2014, the already overbloated ins companies will have even more customers and more profits. With nothing done to fix the terrible educational money making system, new doctors and nurses will be even deeper in debt when they graduate benefiting all the servicers of student loans. All those new malpractice insurance customers will be helping those insurance providers with new and higher premiums. No tort reform means that the lawyers will be rolling in the dough & of course, with nothing done to stop the flow of illegals, hospitals will continue to seek federal subsidies for treating all of those still uninsured at the emergency room door. Just tell me how our democrat sponsor health reform bill doesn't continue to benefit the "very well off"?

OneVoice, you asked, so here it is.

Under the health care law the insurance companies have to pay out 80% of the monies collected from premiums into health care. This regulates their profit margin and quite simply the rich don't care for that.

Under the new health care law the insurance companies can not reject you because you happen to have a pre-existing condition. Keep in mind if you have a health condition and lose your job, then go through some hard times and don't keep your insurance up, once you go 90 days without coverage you will never be able to afford individual coverage again. You may also have trouble getting a job with benefits.

Children with health conditions will not be rejected by the greedy insurance comapnies.

I could go on, get the picture ?

The one change health care really needed, we didn't get thanks to Republicans, a public option. Instead we just got this half-attempt at reform.