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Subscribe to RSSKhaddafy: What’s the policy -- does he stay or does he go? … Obama again talks of handing off leadership on “no-fly zone;” hopes for Arab support … But U.S. is a war-weary nation … Congress doesn’t like feeling like its out the loop … Webb, Lugar keep up criticism -- Obama not in DC, can’t call them in … WH starts the pushback on congressional input … T-Paw gets in -- his path, his problem … Barbour gets NYT/WaPo treatment … McCaskill’s major plane problem … And if it’s Tuesday…
From NBC's Chuck Todd, Domenico Montanaro, Ali Weinberg, and Carrie Dann
*** The Khaddafy question: The news that broke this morning: An American F-15 fighter jet crashed in Libya, NBC’s Jim Miklaszewski reports. The U.S. says there was no evidence of hostile fire; the pilots detected mechanical problems they couldn’t fix and both ejected and are safe and suffered only minor injuries. The aircraft was on a mission to strike Libyan air defense systems, and the aircraft originated from "a base" in Europe, a U.S. spokesperson said. Yesterday in Chile, President Obama reiterated that the coalition forces’ objective was NOT to take out Khaddafy, but instead to protect the Libyan people and that the United States was standing up for their “legitimate aspirations” – something that “must be met.” Asked to defend his prior statements that Khaddafy must step down and how he squares that with saying the mission was not necessarily to remove Khaddafy from power, Obama said it was “easy to square” the military action with his stated policies and reiterated that Khaddafy needs to go.
*** ‘Isolation’ vs. ouster: He said the U.S. has at its disposal a “wide range” of initiatives to put Khaddafy in “isolation,” like freezing his assets, for example. He again tried to explain the distinction between U.S. policy, arguing for Khaddafy's ouster with the limited humanitarian justification of the military strikes. There are lots of reasons to cling to this distinction: (1) some key Arab allies couldn't support the mission if making Khaddafy a target was part of the plan; (2) don't forget the U.S. policy against assassination; (3) it's un-Bush, and when it comes to foreign policy postures, this administration never wants to be seen as doing something Bush-ian. The Bush team had a similar mindset in their first term when it came to comparisons to Clinton. Still the ambiguity lingers when on NBC’s TODAY Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) stressed that U.S. policy IS to get Khaddafy out. By the way, speaking of Bush, Tom Ricks this morning on NPR laid out what he sees as the real difference between Obama’s foreign policy and Bush’s -- what he calls Obama’s "realistic ambiguity" vs. Bush's "false clarity.” He said military leaders do not express confidence in Obama’s leadership, but view him with "puzzlement.” Then again, they initially liked Bush's "false clarity," Ricks said, but by the end of the Iraq war, they were "swearing off the moonshine at that point."
*** On transitions and Arab countries: Obama also stressed yesterday that the U.S. will “transition” to others leading the way on enforcement of a “no-fly zone” and said he’s confident that Arab countries will be involved -- though there’s no sign of that happening as yet. Just one Arab country has signed on for now -- Qatar. And while the administration still hasn't provided details of the command structure that will oversee the “no-fly zone,” it is still confident they'll hand this off in "days not weeks." By the way, it’s been four days since the phrase “days not weeks” has been attributed to the White House. As for public opinion, not a lot of data out there. A CNN poll out yesterday, conducted over the weekend, showed American support for a no-fly zone has increased to 70%-27% up from 56%-40% last week. The president’s approval rating held steady at 51%-47%.
*** Congressional unhappiness: It's very hard to find a member of Congress completely supportive of the Obama administration’s handling of Libya. And judging by the slowness of the administration to pushback against the Congressional critics, it's safe to say, they underestimated this issue. For one thing, things moved faster last week than even they anticipated. The U.N. resolution push was seen, at first, as potentially a week-long project, but Amb. Susan Rice got it done in about 36 hours, and so the "consulting with Congress" stage became simply an "informing the Congress" program. But there are two other factors to consider:
*** A war-weary nation: (1) Congress, like many in the country and military has war fatigue. The Afghanistan war is unpopular, so the whole aspect of another war, another military operation is a tough sell. And it appears the administration underestimated the fact members of Congress, even the reliable foreign policy activists, were going to channel the public's war fatigue.
*** The trip problem: (2) Congress does not like being out of the loop -- and out of the decision-making -- and has a knee-jerk reaction against executive power. That’s particularly true for those that want to have a say in foreign-policy matters, like Sens. Jim Webb (D-VA) and Richard Lugar (R-IN). Both were on MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell Reports yesterday continuing to be critical of the president’s handling of Libya. “This isn’t the way our system is supposed to work,” said Webb, who is not seeking reelection in 2012. He also criticized what he sees as the lack of clarity on the mission. Lugar was blunter: “I’ve said from the beginning that the plan is not simply there. The objectives, the end game is not apparent.” This is part of the problem with Obama conducting a war from overseas. He can’t mind his domestic flank. If he were in Washington, he’d be able to get some of the foreign policy realists into the Oval Office and personally make his case. Perhaps more phone calls could help, but the president appears to be using any time he has for calls to calm down allies who are also growing increasingly unhappy and growing increasingly more comfortable saying so.
*** The pushback: Administration officials began to push back yesterday in Chile on the notion that the White House did not consult with Congress. Exhibit A for them: a Senate resolution that passed March 1, which denounced Khaddafy's atrocities. The White House says the U.N. resolution authorizing force in Libya incorporates it. The resolution was adopted unanimously and urged, in part, “…the United Nations Security Council to take such further action as may be necessary to protect civilians in Libya from attack, including the possible imposition of a no-fly zone over Libyan territory.” BUT this is a “non-binding” resolution and does not amount to or have the legal standing of a declaration of war. The administration also made a few other weaker arguments claiming consultation, including a meeting Friday at the White House that smacked a lot more of "informing" Congress rather than "consulting."
*** T-Paw gets in: Yesterday, Tim Pawlenty became the first top-tier candidate to announce an exploratory committee in the 2012 election (Newt Gingrich announced a Web site and filed paperwork with the IRS but did not file with the FEC). Pawlenty did so on Facebook -- with a movie-trailer-like video. He’s the first candidate in history to announce on Facebook. Forming a committee allows Pawlenty to begin raising money, hiring staff, and renting office space. And it takes him a step closer to officially announcing his intention to run for president, which is expected later this spring, probably in May. In the next week, expect he will announce new staff hirings in Iowa and New Hampshire and name the leadership of the exploratory committee. Just asking… but didn't Pawlenty take away the effectiveness of the Facebook announcement by announcing BEFORE he did it that he was going to have a "special Facebook posting”? Why not simply do it, and allow the viral to happen? Isn't that the way to build Facebook trust?
*** Pawlenty’s path: Pawlenty will be one of the candidates vying to be the “Anti-Romney.” And the Anti-Romney needs to win Iowa -- though Pawlenty will also make a real push to win New Hampshire -- and yes, appear in some more hockey garb in the hockey-loving state. As we noted last week, Iowa seems to be the incredibly shrinking field, with Pawlenty and Barbour (and maybe Gingrich) as the only top-tier candidates who, at this point, look like they’re going to play strongly. A win there will give the “Anti-Romney” the necessary momentum to make a real go at it. As an ex-governor of a neighboring state, Pawlenty should be able to do well. As the Thunes and Daniels’s of the world fade out of this race, one could argue Pawlenty is now in the pole position to be the “Anti-Romney.” He's in a very good pre-announcement phase.
*** His potential speed bumps: Pawlenty has a consistent conservative record on lots of issues -- except one. Each of the candidates has their potential Achilles’ Heels -- Romney (health care and authenticity), Barbour (demographics), Gingrich (personal life), Huckabee (fundraising/organization), Palin (lack of discipline/self-reflection/intellectual curiosity). For Pawlenty, it’s climate change. This is someone who cut a radio ad with then-Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano urging Congress to “Cap greenhouse gas pollution, now!” He once touted his support of 2007 renewable energy legislation, “which established strict statewide greenhouse gas reduction targets of 15 percent below 2005 levels by 2015 and 80 percent below those levels by 2050,” as FactCheck.org points out. “Minnesota has been setting the pace for the country in terms of advancements in renewable and clean energy development,” Pawlenty said once. He now says it was a mistake.
*** And it’s on tape: A Democratic Minnesota state senator was happy to cut a video earlier this month and issue a press release laying out just how pro-change and cap-and-trade Pawlenty was. Pawlenty’s answer before conservative bloggers at CPAC, per a video posted on Hot Air: “Have I had a few clunkers along the way? Yes, but everybody who’s running who’s been in office has got a few clunkers. I think mine are fewer and less severe than most.” He added, “It’s one thing to be conservative when you have a full conservative state, a full conservative legislature, come on up to Minnesota and try it.” And: “Have I changed my position on it? Yes. But I’m not going to be cute about it … Yeah it was a mistake. It was stupid. I was wrong. I changed my position.” Will that be enough? By the way, Gingrich has a similar issue on climate change, see his TV PSA with Nancy Pelosi.
*** Dee plane! Dee plane! Part 2: Yet again, NOT a good headline for Claire McCaskill: “Claire McCaskill admits to $287,000 in unpaid taxes on private plane,” the Washington Post writes. “I have convinced my husband to sell the damn plane,” McCaskill told reporters on a conference call Monday afternoon, per the Post. “I will not be setting foot on the plane ever again.” This is just the latest in a string of problems for McCaskill involving her private plane. This is a MAJOR problem for her -- not just in how she used the plane, but that she owned one in the first place. The plane issue and her vocal support of President Obama during his 2008 will be her biggest vulnerabilities in trying for reelection in 2012 in a state that has trended away from Democrats. (Missouri is ranked No. 4 on First Read’s Top 10 Takeovers.) By the way, the NRSC has made a concerted effort to turn this plane flap into a major issue. That's how campaign committees can be effective early in the cycle.
*** DCCC targets Republicans on entitlements: The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee will announce this morning it’s targeting 10 Republicans for Rep. Paul Ryan’s (R-WI) forthcoming budget that will likely propose cuts to Social Security and Medicare benefits. The targets: Paul Gosar (AZ-1), Bill Young (FL-10), Allen West (FL-22), Dan Benishek (MI-1), Joe Heck (NV-3), Lou Barletta (PA-11), Blake Farenthold (TX-27), Ryan (WI-1), Sean Duffy (WI-7), and David McKinley (WV-1). The DCCC, which launched a Web site called, “StopBenefitCuts.com,” will run newspaper ads, robo-calls, make live calls, and send out e-mails -- all to begin tomorrow. File this under: “Reason No. 650 Why Ultimately Nobody Sitting In A Real Swing District Will Seriously Touch Entitlements."
*** On the trail: Gov. Haley Barbour (R-MS) is in Carson City, NV, where he holds a press conference (4:30 pm ET) with Republican leaders, including Republican darling, Gov. Brian Sandoval. … Rudy Giuliani (R-NY) is in Palm Beach, FL … Pawlenty participates in a public lecture (8:00 pm ET) with Christina Romer, the former chairwoman of President Obama’s Council of Economic Advisers, at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, TN.
*** If it’s Tuesday: The next mayor of Tampa, the host city of the 2012 Republican National Convention, will be chosen today in a runoff election between former City Council member and public affairs executive Bob Buckhorn and pharmacist-turned-county commissioner Rose Ferlita, who edged out three other candidates during the March 1 election to replace outgoing two-term mayor Pam Iorio. While the election is nonpartisan by law, both major parties have endorsed the candidate who is a member of their party -- Buckhorn by the Democrats and Ferlita by the Republicans. Ferlita was ahead of Buckhorn by 10 points in a March 8 Tampa Chamber of Commerce poll, but the race may have tightened since then, as Iorio endorsed Buckhorn two days later, after initially saying she’d stay out of the race.
Countdown to continuing resolution’s expiration: 17 days
Countdown to Iowa GOP straw poll: 143 days
Countdown to Election Day 2011: 231 days
Countdown to the Iowa caucuses: 321 days
* Note: When the IA caucuses take place depends on whether other states move up
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THIS is “No Drama Obama” that the FR regular lefty liberals were bragging about in the last week or so??
Sounds like “Bungler Barry” would be a much more appropriate way to describe his handling of the Libya crisis. He’s managed to get both the right and left, and hawks and doves to openly question his judgment. With even some lefty Dems calling for Articles of impeachment. No one seems to have a handle on what the plan is and who’s in charge. And he appears to be detached by going on a junket to sunny South America during the crisis.
From Politico:
Did Obama lose Congress on Libya?
By: Jonathan Allen and Marin Cogan
March 21, 2011 05:20 PM EDT
President Barack Obama is facing growing anger from lawmakers who believe he overstepped his authority by launching missile strikes into Libya without first seeking the consent of Congress.
The criticism is from all directions: from moderates, like Sens. Jim Webb (D-Va.) and Dick Lugar (R-Ind.); from those on the far left and right, like Reps. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) and Ron Paul (R-Texas), who believe the president acted outside the Constitution; and from the establishment on both sides, including House Democratic Caucus Chairman John Larson of Connecticut and Republican Rep. Candice Miller of Michigan, a self-described “hawk.”
What it adds up to is this: The president, already taking heat for a perceived lack of engagement on pressing domestic matters, will arrive home from South America needing to justify to Congress and the public his decision to use force in Libya without seeking approval.
It remains to be seen whether Congress has reached a tipping point in its cession of war-making power to the executive branch, but it’s clear that U.S. intervention in Libya has hit a nerve with a war weary legislative branch.
“What is the vital U.S. national interest? … How much does he think it will cost us? What is the scope of the mission? How do you define success?” Miller said, ticking off a list of unanswered questions. “The president should come home, call us into session … and explain what he’s doing.”
Webb, a Marine and former Navy secretary, warned Monday on MSNBC that Congress has “been sort of on autopilot for almost 10 years now, in terms of presidential authority, in conducting these types of military operations absent the meaningful participation of the Congress.”
Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) tweeted Sunday that the president is treating Congress as a “potted plant.”
Kucinich, whose words still hold sway among some on the left, raised the question of why it’s not called an impeachable offense.
Looks like Sen. McCaskill is just one more Democrook tax cheat in the tradition of “Cheater Charlie” Rangel and many others in the Barry admin past (Geithner, Daschle, Sebelius, to name a few). Now, what do you think would happen to the average small business owner if they got caught cheating the IRS out of hundreds of thousands in taxes?? Big fines, prison time?? Yet she will likely skate with a slap on the wrist from the IRS and a finger wagging “just don’t do this again” from the Senate Ethics committee.
The FUNNIEST part is her sponsorship of a bill that “would fire federal employees if they are “seriously delinquent” in paying their own federal taxes.” (para. four below)
Sounds like she ought to resign immediately, and be impeached if she doesn’t do so. Of course, “the rules” don’t apply to lefty liberal elected Dems. They are only for the “lttle people”.
From Politico:
McCaskill to pay back taxes on plane
By: Scott Wong and John Bresnahan
March 21, 2011 03:37 PM EDT
Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo) said Monday she will sell her private plane and pay back $287,273 in four years of back taxes, the latest chapter in a politically embarrassing saga for the moderate Democrat facing a tough reelection battle in 2012.
McCaskill has been answering questions about the plane since POLITICO recently reported that she billed taxpayers for a political trip around Missouri. POLITICO also reported that McCaskill spent $76,000 from her Senate budget on trips on the aircraft over the past four years, prompting the senator to refund the Treasury Department more than $88,000 for the cost of the trips plus pilot fees.
McCaskill’s announcement Monday is the latest twist in a political scandal that has dogged her for the past two weeks. The expensive fiasco clashes with her self-made image as a reformer and good-government advocate during her first term in the Senate. McCaskill has now shelled out more than $375,000 in payments to cover the cost of the plane flights and back taxes, a series of events the senator herself has called “embarrassing.”
On top of this, McCaskill signed on in February as a co-sponsor of Senate legislation that would fire federal employees if they are “seriously delinquent” in paying their own federal taxes.
Back home, local papers have picked up on the plane story, and Missouri Republicans aren’t letting go, either. They filed a complaint with the Senate Ethics Committee last week, requesting an inquiry into whether McCaskill improperly used taxpayer money to cover the cost of at least one political trip on her plane. And they ran a full-page ad in the Springfield Leader Monday, calling on her to release tax records for her aircraft.
“This is not good,” McCaskill said during conference call with reporters on Monday. “I’ve been sick to my stomach for four days since this has happened, and I really do feel a lot of people are going to say, ‘How in the world? They’ve got this big business and they’re wealthy. How did they not self-report this airplane?’”
U.S.Navy
There is definitely something wrong in the country when public school teachers, snow plow drivers, firefighters, DMV workers, and police are the "bad guys." Oh, yeah, those greedy middleclass workers with their benefits and all! Who do they think they are, playing by the rules, showing up for work, serving the public. Why, they should do it for the rewards they reap in heaven, not for the health insurance and retirement pensions!
As for John Cornyn's tweet that the President treats Congress like a "potted plant"--well, for 26 months, the GOP has behaved like "potted plants", the only thing they could say was NO, NO, a thousand times NO. The GOP made itself irrelevant with their "defeat Obama at all costs" strategy. "Potted plant" is a good description. Any party which refuses to engage in the legislative process for 26 months should expect to be ignored.
Amy:
Very true. The right is using this "Fiscal Environment" to drive their agenda to destroy the Middle Class. In many cases they are even creating the "Fiscal Crisis" in their States by giving huge Income Tax Cuts and Property Tax Cuts to the corporations and the rich. Then they raise the taxes on the Middle Class and the poor and cut their pay (or just lay them off). What a party of corrupt thugs.
I agree, Jody---between the Republicans and certain members of the President's own party and Congress' inability to get anything substantive done, I think it is laughable that they complain about not being consulted over anything. Act like adults and you will be invited to the "big kids" table.
Any party which refuses to engage in the legislative process for 26 months should expect to be ignored.
_________________________________________________
Um... Jody, it's not just the Republican's saying Barry should have consulted with Congress, It's members of his own party too.
What I can't figure out, is when the wingers like Joey's & NJNB's etc. post from a right wing 'rag' like Political, all of the cuts and paste cry babies are suddenly silent?
Hmmmm...
More double standards brought to you the hypocrites on the right...
Maybe President Obama could ask Michele to bring in a CrystalBall Seer like Nancy Reagon did, that way the American population could EatIt Up!
If Boehner could keep congress in town, maybe he could get updated on the latest world happenings!Just saying!
Lastnight CNN's Nic Roberson(whose in Tripoli)Blasted FoxNews reporter's for saying Reporter's were brought in as humanSheilds.It seems as tho Fox was'nt even there. Maybe they could send Ollie North to Tripoli?
70 % Approve of the NoFly Zone, but only 50 Approve of President Obama's handling of the Lybia situation.
Whatta screwed up Country we live in.
Well said. Thank You
Feisty:
Feisty: You had a great post yesterday on HCR -3. Too bad it was collapsed by the usual GOP/TP posters that cannot stand the truth. How about this one from the Nation another assault on the reproductive rights of women.
“Enter Georgia State Senator Barry Loudermilk, the author of what may be the strangest antiabortion bill to come out of Georgia yet, which is really saying something. I’ve been calling his most recent proposal the sue-if-you’re-displeased-with-her-choice bill. (It doesn’t have a better name yet, since, as far as I can tell, it’s the first of its kind to reach a legislative body.)
Loudermilk’s bill, which is being considered today, would allow a woman—or the members of her own family, including an abusive husband—to file a wrongful death lawsuit against a doctor who has performed an abortion. The bill spells out that the damages for the wrongful death of the fetus would be equal to those for an adult person. And it would allow the suits even if the doctors involved followed all laws regarding abortion and if the women involved don’t consent to the suit. [Editor's note: Loudermilk's bill, SB 210, passed through Georgia's senate in the evening of March 16, and now moves to the state's House.]
http://www.thenation.com/blog/159260/georgia-bill-would-allow-wrongful-death-suits-behalf-fetuses
This GOP/TP ideology would almost be considered funny if not so destructive and repugnant. Could you imagine what your IRS forms would look like (for HCR-3) if the GOP/TP had been successful in redefining “rape” to “forcible rape”? You would have to complete questions like first where you raped? If so by whom (check all that apply) and you would have a list that would have included people like your father, brother, uncle other family member, boy friend or other. Do you have proof? Photo’s (must have been certified by GOP/TP certified porno photographer, how us would you know) or a written confession also certified. The point is these assaults are repugnant and stupid.
The uterus police are too busy with this instead of creating jobs in this country, improving the economy or improving education. Talk about having your priorities screwed up and NOT listening to the people; these guys get the First Place Trophy.
The GOP/TP pulled the biggest bait and switch on this country in history. They baited the America people with such rhetoric as they would listen to America, they would create jobs in this country and they would fight to better the economy. They said they wanted to improve Education. Once elected what did they gave us?
1. 22 States that want to disenfranchise millions and millions of US Citizens from voting. Many who have voted are their lives. Why, because the GOP/TP has determined they typically vote democrat. Again trying to mold this country into classes.
2. Attacks on the rights of their citizens everything from women’s reproductive rights to the right of Gay people wanting to put their lives on the line in defense of their country.
3. “McCarthy Style” hearings to try and pit one religious group of Americans against the others. This is religious intolerance of the right and the very reason many of our founding fathers came to this country to begin with. Religious Freedom. Our founding fathers are rolling over in their graves. This is not the country they envisioned.
4. A political system that has been totally corrupted by undocumented money from Special Interest Groups who buy political votes to further their agenda, and not the agenda of Americans
5. They have turned a deaf ear to Americans unless you are Wall Street, Big Business or Millionaires/Billionaires
6. Union Busting because the right sees any collection of people that have an ideology different than their as a threat to their quest to totally control this country and they have vowed to destroy any ideological opposition to them, period!!
7. They have not done one thing to create a single job in this country, they have not done one thing to help an improving economy to continue and they have contentiously pushed legislation that the majority of Americans do not want, PERIOD including gutting Education as we know it. If you cannot afford it you do not get it.
People, you have been hood winked by the GOP/TP with their “bait and switch”.
Navy-- This is beautiful. I know from firsthand experience just how accurate it is.
Thank you so much for posting it.
Feisty
Kind of like you and Maddow. Sometimes I think you two are one in the same.
Never talk about the topic at hand, just demonize your opponents. I'm surprised you didn't mention "where are the jobs", yet this morning.
Speaking of 'potted plants' who remembers Paul Begala's (sp?) comment about McCain when he suspended his campaign to rush back to DC during the financial melt down? That was a classic!
Two thumbs down to the Today show this morning for entertaining that old goat's was strategies!
After unleashing the hound from hell on the lower 48 states, Pidgeon Man's credibility is comparable to a chicken voting for Colonial Sanders!
Navy, I'm pretty sure that letter is as phony as a three dollar bill- or the "suicide letter" Bev was taken in by recently. Good grief.
As to Obama's "congress problem"- this is what comes when you put pleasure before business. He just HAD to go on this trip- with the family. Never mind the crises he should be dealing with - heck, never mind that he committed our troops to a military action! Never mind the budget- the economy- or any other problem. Just pack up his troubles in his old kit bag and smile, smile, smile.
And kick a soccer ball around. Sun on the beach in Rio. Samba.
I'm thinking I have next year's campaign song:
Don't Worry. Be Happy.
Do, do,do,do do do do Dooby do. . .
@ Joe from Albany -- I'm interested in whether you also expressed your outrage when Dennis Kucinich called for Congress to take action against George W. Bush and Dick Cheney for THEIR war crimes. Seems to me he actually introduced articles of impeachment. What was your position then?
Get back to me on that, will you?
If you think that's phony, then it PROVES that YOU"RE phony for claiming you ever were a teacher. Or at least it proves you had no idea what a teacher's job really is.
But then again, I already knew that.
Thanks Navy! Regretably, the 'uturus police' are alive and thriving these days!
Excellent post by the way - it shouldn't matter if it's legitimate or not, as it points out EXACTLY what these 21st century Nazi's are up to!
Exactly so. Here in Iowa the GOPTP House is holding up most business for a proposal to require enactment of a tax cut ANY TIME the state ends the fiscal year with a surplus. This is like saying ANY TIME you have money in your checkbook the night before payday you should pick up a new obligation or cut your income. How long would it be before you land in bankruptcy that way? "The party of fiscal responsibility"--what a laugh.
We are now involved in three wars in the Middle East, we have no coherent pollicy, Obama cannot even mail it, both sides of Congress mad at Obama, we have passed the leadership to the French, Puter throws down the Crusades card, China is mad, Japan has their triple disaster, continuing debt crisis, skyrocketing gas prices, fast spike and highest prices for food, etc. ...........and the libs here are worried about Wisconsin, snow plow drivers, taxing the rich, size of Tea Party meetings, Nancy Reagan........
It ain't half as screwed up as you guys and your priorities.
Joey Albany....
You named 4 people out of the entire congress to make a point? first off, Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul would not go to war if their mommas house were getting invaded - so they really don't count - they are impractical when it comes to their ideologies (so I don't call them wing nuts - but crazy impractical nuts).
Sens. Jim Webb (D-Va.) & Dick Lugar (R-Ind.) on the other hand are different.... not everyone will agree with everything.... tis the price of freedom and liberty. Dissent is good for a free society. But 70% of the American people think this No Fly Zone is Ok... so is at least 60% of congress - and this is as long as the US does not stay there for weeks. The president has promised us... let's wait and see before you criticize, hey buddy?
Yeah, isn't it? Now this guy is copying his own posts (this one from last Friday) and reposting them.
Nothing else to say disabled? Now we're getting reruns from you?
Source: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/03/18/6293680-first-thoughts-a-third-war-
More like re-posting it.
So what's going on, the thinkprogress site down today?
It's so much fun watching the left-wing warmongers defend their Obama.
bob-1805084
That's an opinion, not a fact, and you are entitled to it.
So, what if 2 people from either side of are mad at Obama... the American people are with him, as well as majority of congress....
Let them have it... you mention we have 3 wars and then in the same breath make this statement.
Japan triple disaster and China mad; what's your point? I don't get it.
There are always a million problems in this country at any time... is your point that the president is not spending enough time on them? Also, skyrocketing gas prices, how do you want to blame Obama for this? And as food prices, gas prices are on the rise, plus demand of food supplies from India and China are a drain on the world, thereby increasing the price of food. How would you like Obama to alleviate this situation?
Libs are worried about a lot of things, but I think you are being disingenuous with the snippet you've mentioned above...
A thousand thank you's JH*numbers* - I can't think of a anything more flattering! *blushes*
Now that you mentioned it... where are the JOBS?
It is even more fun watching the GOP/TP slipping and a sliding in their own crap with no ideas, no morals, no ethics, just an old ideology that has a stunning "Historical "comparison to Fascism/Communism/Nazism etc. And you try and hold those ideologies out to the American people as virtuous???
How sad and pittiful indeed.
I'm interested in whether you also expressed your outrage when Dennis Kucinich called for Congress to take action against George W. Bush and Dick Cheney for THEIR war crimes. Seems to me he actually introduced articles of impeachment. What was your position then?
Get back to me on that, will you?
___________________________________________________
AM: As with pretty much anything Kucinich does, I laughed at him then, just as I did yesterday when he was calling for Barry to be impeached.
JS1, i'm No warmonger, but i'll give President Obama credit for doing what 3 Former Republican President's & 1 Former Democratic President failed to do & that is give the Lybian people a CHANCE.
He also gets credit for Takeing out Gaddafi's Air Defense systems.
So in other words, President Obama is doing what 4 Former President's failed to do & that is Defend America's Honor(over 20 years too late)from 1 of the Top Terrorist in the World.
But, please go on about Democratc warmonger's, it's Fun watching yall on the right:
SQUIRM !
Not sure, but, thanks to Joey, we know that Politico is churning out the right wing propoganda today!
Thanks for asking...
"post from a right wing 'rag' like Political"
_______________________________________
Nasty Redhead: The FR hosts that you routinely give boot-licking and a$$-kissing praise quote Politico all the time. If it's good enough for them it should be good enough for you.
LMAO@UNR HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And can you tell me what useful purpose YOUR post served?
I, for one, didn't see Navy's original post, and I appreciated it. As someone else said, it puts a human face on the issue. From my own experience, I can testify that it's accurate. If you ain't done it, then don't pretend to know about it.
And you, for one, need to stop swallowing those bitter pills they feed you at Tea Party boot camps.
Stick to the kool-aid.
So are you also all for giving the people of the Sudan, Chad, Somalia, Yemen, and for that matter the people of Mexico with their battle against the drug lords, a CHANCE? Or do you some how discriminate when it comes to those people with their civil wars?
First drones now tomahawks Obama and the leftists just have this thing about blowing up lots of people from a safe distance
How will the families of innocent victims react to this?
JAS1- It's so much fun watching the left-wing warmongers defend their Obama.
Do you have anything to add today other than to call names? See my post #12 can we keep the politics and name calling out of it? Obama is doing what you wanted correct? Why the insistence to bash?
FR: Palin (lack of discipline/self-reflection/intellectual curiosity).
I am dying to know who wrote this! BINGO!
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Claire McCaskill is in some serious hot water, no doubt about it; but let's not draw a false equivalency - her tax problem is state personal property tax issue and WOULD not be part of the bill introduced,...no matter how delicious the scandal seems with that extra twist of irony. As I said last week, she was going to have a tough row to hoe regardless; but she sure didn't help her situation.
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If Congress wants to get credit for DEFENDING AMERICANS - perhaps they should take a few less recesses? And at any point, Boehner could and CAN call the congress back into session. Seems to me we can see for ourselves where his priorities lie.
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I support the President working with our Allies to STOP Khaddafy from Bombing civilians to retain power. I detest war, so this is a tough one. Libya got violent when Khaddafy decided to double down.
Chad, Yemen, Somalia, Mexico, what do they havta do with Lybia,JS1 ?
Has any of them blewup a plane with American passengers on board & Admitted it & paid restitution to the family's after admitting it?
If either Bush or the Great Ronnie Raygun had done this, you'd be in your Cheeerleader outfit, saying How great it is that we're finally takeing it to Gaddafi.
Rah, Rah, Rah, Shish Boom Bah, comeon Nancy, gimme some Stars to see thru!
Whatta Joke yall on ther Right are!
Ask Mixed bag when he comes on borad today how he feels.
Sen. Webb and Sen. Lugar are spouting out because they want to be seen as relevant. The fact is, the Congress is not in session. If the President does go to Congress with a request for a declaration of war, he'll get it. More likely than not, this little fiasco will be over before the members of Congress even begin to pack their bags for the flights back to DC.
The only questions which remain will be, who will be in charge. Mr. Mubarek made it easy in Egypt, leaving the military in charge. In Libya, it will be difficult, as some of the military oppose the current leadership and some support it. This has all of the makings for a long, drawn out civil war.
Many claim that President Obama does not have a policy in place. There has not been a truly strong leader to voice US foreign policy since Henry Kissinger left the office. Even he had some difficulty with SE Asia. The middle-east has always been a difficult place to form a policy and have it play out. Who would have thought that the President of Egypt would resign this year?
And for all the nay sayers, every President is on duty 24/7 everywhere they may be in the world. It does not matter if they are cutting down trees in Crawford, TX or standing on a beach in Rio De Genaro, they are always able to communicate with the world.
I refrained from posting this the last time because it seemed you backed off the Nazi crap.
Anyway, here's your comparision along with a comment or two....
US Navy "Soup Nazis" Disabled, Veteran - Retired,
Day after day you come to FR with your cut-in-paste characterizations of the right as Fascist and Nazi. You use deliberate misrepresentations of the right and convulted exceptions in an effort to suggest a rule. And by doing so, you throw out the Nazi label, an ignorant marginalization so repugnant that it suggests no need to give the time of day. Just dismiss. Like Seinfield's "Soup Nazis", if you don't approve, or like - they are automatically dismissed. Problem with that analogy though, is that while Seinfield's character is comical, your characterization is malicious - as demeaning as the other N Word.
With regard to Fascist and GOP/TP: The root word of Fascism is fasces, translated as a bundle of sticks signifying the strength of the union - a bundle of sticks are much stronger than the individual sticks symbolizing the power / strength of government over the power / strength of the individual. It is related to the Italian word fascio of which the most pertinent meaning is "labor union".
Does the GOP/TP advocate big government and labor unions, or some other party?
Nazi was the original National Socialist Germans Workers Party. The operative words are Socialist and Workers Party (Unions). Same Question.
The Nazi rose to power exploiting anticapitalist rhetoric they indisputably believed. They believed in the notion of ending class distinction. Sound like what you guys say about the GOP/TP, or sound like some other party?
The NAZIs believed in national health care, abortion, gun control. Same question.
The Nazi were anti- church, even doing away with nativity scenes. Sound familiar, is that the GOP/TP, or some other party.
The Nazi believed health care was not a private matter, were antismoking, promoted organic foods, believed in homepathy and herbal remedies and public health drives that foreshadowed today's crusades against junk foods. Are the GOP/TP doing that, or some other party.
Almost every social issue was the same as the progressives of today. Big government, anti-capitalism, belief in the state not the individual.
The Hitler / Der Fuher (The Leader) was the Nazi Party. Does the Tea Party even have a leader?
His greatest gift was his oratory skill. He campaigned on change, movement. Sound like Palin, Bachman, or more like someone else?
Hitler was a revolutionary, a tranformative leader? Who said they were going to be a transformative President? Change, not going back to the past, move forward, etc. Is this the GOP/TP, or what you guys espouse everyday?
All of the above are marks of modern liberalism, the daughter of American Progressivism - the sister of Fascism and Nazism.
Status quo is the mark of conservatives. In the case of America today, the status quo is to conserve - Conserve the the victories and legacy of a previous revolution.
You look around and see Nazis everywhere. They don't exist except in exceptionally small numbers of fringe sicko-s, the skin heads that no one acknowledges. But there are surviving relatives, many of the same genetic make-up. To see those with that family resembalance - they are easy - look in the mirror, Navy - THEN CUT THE NAZI CRAP.
So that's the standard, state sponsered terrorism? Fine. So when does Obama invade Iran, Syria, and Lebanon?
You lefty warmongers keep digging your own grave.
Obama is doing what I want? Getting involved and picking sides in a civil war? You think that's a good thing to do YD? And if Gadaffi is gone, what then? You do have this planned out because you do support this action, correct?
Potted plants are smarter than John Cornyn!!
Bob:
Good post. You beat me to the punch. I had a rather lengthy rebuttal to all of his Nazi references also. I think you handled it very well. I researched and found the same definitions on site after site. He really doesn't know what he is talking about. Liberals feel as though anything they say should be taken as LAW.
I get tired of this clown calling 50% of America Nazi's also. My father was a die-hard Democrat at one point for most of his life. About 15 yrs ago he explained to me why he switched parties and what I should look for in politics. He explained to me what the Democrat party would look like today and the rhetoric they will spew. I will be damned if I haven't heard a lot of it word for word.
Prove there are not 22 States not trying to re-write voting Laws to disenfranchise Millions of US Citizens denying them the constitutional right to vote
Prove there was no "McCarthy Style" hearing pitting one religious group against others
Prove that the GOP/TP is not opposing gay rights and that the GOP/TP has not been assaulting women's rights everything from their private reproductive rights to opposing equal pay for equal work
Prove we do not have GOP/TP Governors trying to give themselves powers that would make any despot happy
Prove that the GO/TP is not trying to bust unions as they represent a voting block that opposes them
Prove that the Citizens United decision has not tampered with our rights to fair and open elections without any outside interference Domestic or Foreign
Prove that the GOP/TP is not systematically redistributing wealth and power to a select group of people
Come on, you got a big mouth that keeps spouting lies every day. Prove that the above is not happening. Prove that the GOP/TP does not have proposals for the above. PROVE IT. Come on, show us the proof big boy that these are not true. Until then the "Historical Comparison" of the ideology of fascism/despotism/communism/nazism holds true and do not blame us for the ideology that your party has elected to follow. Follow them if you want, that is your right but then do not complain when we call you out on it.
Duh101- if then president is standing on a beach in Rio, he is not able to call congress into emergency session in order to obtain their consent for military action.
Now, I happen to think it was deliberate, as member os his own party might well have voted no, which would have been quite embarrassing.
It was, however, the wrong decision.
A copy of my post from 3/15 for those who may have not seen it. Read the articles about the "Historial Comparisons" of various ideologies.
I find it disingenuous by many of the right complaining about the numerous articles out there on how the ideology of the far right is shifting to one that has a lot of similarities to fascism, despot, Neo-Nazi, oligarchy and other monikers (ideologies). It must be noted that the publishers of these articles are reacting to what the far right is doing in their ideology, the bills they are passing or proposing today. There are 22 States trying to disenfranchise a segment of the population from their rights to vote in Federal and State elections. They are trying to destroy Unions because these people stand in their way to total power. They have attacked the reproductive rights of women and their right to equal pay for equal work, the rights of the gay community, immigrants, etc. States are rigging committee votes to get heir own way.
The right is the ones that should be ashamed by bringing these repugnant ideologies into the 21st century, not the people that are writing about it and bringing these ideologies to the attention of the American people. These articles are talking about elected politicians and officials NOT the American People per se. There is a difference.
Quote from Ronald Regan; http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2011/03/13/video-where-free-unions-and-collective-bargaining-are-forbidden-freedom-is-lost-ronald-reagan/
“Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost” Sept. 1,1980 his “Liberty Speech” in Jersey City – Ronald Regan
[Other Sources worth reading]
http://thinkprogress.org/2011/03/09/king-muslims-plots-terrorists/
http://thinkprogress.org/2011/03/05/state-disenfranchisement-schemes/
http://pwtenny.newsvine.com/_news/2011/03/12/6254135-politifact-ohio-sen-sherrod-brown-says-hitler-stalin-and-mubarek-all-opposed-independent-unions-true
Tunde,
Obama said Gahafi must go. Now he has said we are just trying to stop the killing of civilians. The articilcle above asks - "Isolation vs. ouster"
Maybe Congress knows. No wait - he didn't talk to them. Wasn't time before going on vacation with the girls.
Funny story, the French wanted to send Gadhafi a corsage to the dance, said they were a little short - didn't have the 114 cruise missiles at a million a pop and asked if Obama could spot them some. Obama throws them the keys to the destroyers and says fire all you want - I'll be in Brazil, but just ask Gen. Ham if you need anything else, he'll hook ya up with whatever you need.
skyrocketing gas prices, how do you want to blame Obama for this
Gas prices are dependent on supply and demand compounded by the futures market as a commodity. Obama has destroyed the energy production in the Gulf. The pipeline is not being refilled. The markets know this and combined with increasing demand prices are going skyward just like Obama wants to justify his green agenda and larger governmental role.
Gas prices effect food prices by shifting food crops to biofuels resulting in reduced stocks of food which increases price. Simple biz 101.
And no end in sight ........ no plan in sight either.
Johanna, Obama is not doing what I want.
For humanitarian purposes, Obama could be drawn into getting involved and picking sides in a civil war. I don't think that this is a good thing to do. If Gadaffi is gone, we can all dance and sing but no one knows what will happen in the long run. Another reason why I don't support this policy.
Check my post again. See my other posts from last week and yesterday. This is not a good policy and I don't support it. I guess I'm in the minority on that one. I will support the military and wish them good luck and God speed. As with any other action by this president or politician or former president I will make and have an opinion. Perhaps we share the same one on this one. Maybe not.
Although you bring up a valid point about the twists some people on both sides are using to support this policy, my question to you is why the name calling?
Navy-
Do you remember how the whole "Party Of No" thing just didn't work last November, and how the GOP ended up gaining 63 House seats and 6 U.S. Senate seats?
Well...
The whole Nazi thing isn't working either.
It simply makes you look hysterical, US Navy.
Worse yet...it makes you appear to be insulting the memory of those who gave everything to defeat Nazism.
Let it go.
Just let it go, Navy.
No Jo,
Whether we agree on the merits of the trip or not the South America trip was planned long in advance. I am not so pessimistic to think that Obama was in Brazil and now Chile just to get out of calling for a vote. War was not declared. Despite my disagreement with it policy wise a UN security vote was held.
The farthest I can go is that Obama used the trip as political cover to allow Sarkozy to be the face announcing that the UN is imposing a no fly zone in Libya. Or, perhaps he was convinced that it was the right action to take. Neither you or I know for certain. Whatever the case that ship has sailed, I only respectully ask for my President to explain the goals. Provide air power to protect civilians, protect armed rebels, overthrow the government, assasinate the leader?
Wow....its a regular Liberal stroke fest here this morning. Poor bilge boy has me in tears sniffle. Of course that was a fake post. Reminds me of the song about the little boy with a dog that died..... named Stains! So Fiesty did someone actually knock on your door trying to take your Uterus away......GASP! I was talking with my wife about Gov. Rick Snyder in Michigan and how he is the first Gov. that is actually doing what he said he would do...... And I LOVE the guy! He is making Counties and Cities balance their budgets. I mean they have no money and if they become insolvent the Bankruptcy courts will invalidate the contracts anyways. Keep whining lefties....... this is going to be a long painful summer for you guys. I know your new chant is "recall" but we will see how far those go pretty soon. Im betting the farm NO republican gets recalled...now those guys that ran away thats a different story. How about a little Cha cha ..... koch koch koch cha cha cha rove rove rove cha cha cha....... Bush bush bush Ommpoppa mau mau!
Rick, Ky-
"Ask Mixed bag when he comes on the borad (sic) today how he feels"
Thanks for the shout-out, and here goes:
Why would you assume that all conservatives engage in some sort of group-think, Rick?
My opinions are my own. I'm not marching in lock-step with anyone. Not the other conservatives posting here...nor anyone else. I don't automatically expect them to share my views, nor do I automatically share their views.
But Rick, if I were you...
I'd be questioning the hypocrisy of those on the left who have suddenly, and inexplicably, become military interventionists in the wake of President Obama's decision to involve the U.S. military in the Libyan conflict...now THOSE are what I would call epiphanies!
Me...? I haven't changed.
Hi Navy,
Post 1.12 This is GREAT as far as the GOP agenda is concerned.
Hi Feisty,
Post 1.18 So True.
Yellowdog- thank you for a thoughtful post. I agree that action should have been taken, and pray the no fly action was the correct course.
As to the junket- I am sure you, like most of us, also,plan trips "well in advance". Despite that, when there is an emergency, plans get changed.
Think of last year, when Obama put off his Asian trip not once, but twice- in order to ram through HCR.
I am sorry, but the man's priorities are all screwed up.
We have no business in Libya. This country needs to learn how to mind its own business and stop policing the world if we don't it will ultimately lead to our demise. Has a country ever conducted 3 wars simultaneously? And I thought we were out of money…
Bob,
Like I mentioned earlier, you opinion on Libya is your opinion and I'm not going argue it.... after all, I'll just be arguing your opinion with my opinion - which we can both agree, it doesn't make any sense. As for the gas prices comment you made below.
True, gas prices are dependent on supply/demand compounded by future demand... but these days, it's more of the latter and very little with supply and demand... imagine 2 summers ago when gas was $140 a barrel... I would venture to let you know that supply/demand back then was not worse than what it is today, yet gas prices today is still less than what it was 2 summer ago. I'm not an economist, but I can tell you as a FACT... that this higher prices gas price we are seeing today compared to a couple of months ago is mainly due to investor speculation (as a result of the middle east crisis that has been brewing for the last 3~4months)...how Obama supposed to change that??? US Oil production is at its highest point in the last 10yrs, but crude oil prices are still going up. How do you explain that?
The lil tid-bit you added about Obama destroying energy production in the gulf is not only far out of reality, but gravely disingenuous. I think BP destroyed that - FACT (and also caused the US billions); drill deep with no way of prevention of severe disaster.... the government, being prudent issued a moratorium on new permits for DEEP water drilling, that has now been lifted 8 months later. And you blame Obama for that too? This just sounds more and more like republican talking point with no beef to it. Common man, you can do better than that~! Argue sound logic with facts...
True American-2367375,
I don't think of myself being very smart (average probably)... but I would like to think that I am well informed. And you say "AMEN!!!" to the useless quote provided by no jo....
You guys do know that HCR is the biggest impact to US deficits right? And you do believe that the president's intention was to get this under control right? If you truly care about deficits like your party has been screaming for 2 years...then do something about HCR.... or else you and your elected officials are just lying to your constituents.... the president is trying - we know he tried - at least helped to pass a HCR (CBO projected to save $700billion - thats the only number we can go by). I believe that the public option would have been best.... but couldn't pass because some idiots on your side believe that HCR was a way to commit genocide on grandmas and grandpas across the country.
I mostly didn't like president bush (I think he's the worst president ever - my opinion).... but I can say that he did somethings right, and somethings he did wrong (unintentionally - housing bubble - crashing the economy), there's serious debates about the 2 tax cuts...and his massive foreign policy blunder... but when I look at Bush...I look at the good and the bad.....
You and nojo.... look at Obama and can't see anything positive. Need I say why? When you guys get home today, look in the mirror and ask yourselves why? If you can't figure it out, you need more help than you guys know.
Hallelujah!!!!!
Amy B. Portland, ME
U.S.Navy
There is definitely something wrong in the country when public school teachers, snow plow drivers, firefighters, DMV workers, and police are the "bad guys." Oh, yeah, those greedy middleclass workers with their benefits and all! Who do they think they are, playing by the rules, showing up for work, serving the public. Why, they should do it for the rewards they reap in heaven, not for the health insurance and retirement pensions!
Unions were booted out of the private sector because they priced themselves out of it. It didnt matter though because they entrenched themselves in what was the cash cow, the citizens taxpayer.
The ones that are to blame are the politicans whom think they can raise taxes on whime because they can.
Here we were in the middle of the best prospereous times ever and goverments across the board were loving it. Raising taxes and spending like crazy, instead watching what they spent and squrillliing their surpluses away like they should have.
Great Conservative narrative RDV, and it's been relatively successful, but there's not a lot of truth to it;
http://epi.3cdn.net/8808ae41b085032c0b_8um6bh5ty.pdf
The fact of the matter is that this aggression against public employees is just one corner of a larger war on the middle class. The wealthy elites seek to divide us against each other, distracting from the massive relocation of wealth from the middle to the very peak of the economic pyramid.
I love it when you talk pop psychology, Bag Boy. Been listening to Dr. Phil again?
To what? Doesn't matter if he leaves town or not. He even got the job done with one hand died behind his back this time.
As long as I live, I will never understand the way you think.
Tunde,
One of the reasons for the price of gas coming down from two years ago was the actions taken by Bush that involved the signing of new lease and additional efforts for American production. This the production that we have today. That is the reason, combined with less demand due to the world economy why prices are less today than two years ago.
The moratorium was fabricated. Obama's panel of experts recommended aginst the moratorium. A federal judge has ruled against Bama and Obama has ignored it with the permitting process. The judge has issued an contempt order and Obama has now released ONE new permit. One permit in almost a year for the main source of our off-shore production! That doesn't effect what is coming out today, again that production was the result of permits under Bush. Again the futures market is aware, there is nothing in the pipeline from Obama and prices are going up. Libya? One per cent of world production - nothing for the world to make up. BTW - It is commodity speculation - not investor speculation.)
Blame BP? Nope see above regarding the panel and the orders. Side note. Obama was responsible for the inspections of BP. The administration waived the BOP pressure test which resulted in the disaster. The BP disaster happened. Is Obama to blame? No. But there is absolutely no doubt that his handling of the crisis and his moratorium and other actions have crippled the energy industry and are dramatically effecting price of gas. Insanity.
It is also undeniable. If you would like to educate yourself, Investors Business Daily has been doing articles for a year. Check out their archives, or better yet, if you honestly want to know the truth, will actually read them, let me know and I will look up specific articles. IBD is just one of many, many sources.
Does Obama Want $8 Gasoline from 02/25/2011 is a start.
Your comment sure sounds good, but it doesn't square with the facts. Taxes have not skyrocketed in the way you suggest. Income tax rates are actually at their lowest level since the 1950s. We have pretty much abandoned taxing corporations, while lowering personal income tax rates, in particular for the very wealthy. This obviously leads to less revenue for governments to spend and squeezes their budgets, contributing to deficits. If anything, the current fiscal crisis relates at least in part to the fact that we are taking in far LESS in taxes than we reasonably could be, compared with other countries, and with other times in this country.
In my own state, which is Wisconsin, taxing to support public education has already been limited by statute for almost 20 years. To raise revenue above a certain amount, local governments and school boards have to go to referendum. Those referenda often fail. In addition, teachers' salaries have been capped by statute for the same amount of time, meaning that, even before Walker's budget bill, they could not force arbitration above that amount. The amount is 3.8 percent, including both wages and benefits, so it's hardly the tax and spend extravaganza that you suggest. Health care costs usually eat up a great big chunk of that, leaving between 2 and 3 percent for salary increases, and in some years even less. So trying to tie the current fiscal crisis in this state to out of control government spending on schools and teachers just doesn't wash. Taxpayers have had direct control over that for two decades.
Out of control spending in other areas? Now there you have a point. But with regard to education, at least here, no.
Anna Molly: it sounds like your fine new governor is ready to stick it to the local governments. Reading his budget plan, it looks like there will have to be tax rate increases coming from the local levels. I don't know if property values (in general) have dropped in WI, but everywhere they have not increased as they did in prior years. In many cases they have dropped. This has forced the local governing bodies to make cuts or ask for higher property tax rates. Governor Walker and his type don't like to take the bull by the horns, they prefer to chase it down the road and leave the problem to someone else.
Nope. Now, if you'd said that the price of gas came down because demand collapsed thanks to the massive economic bubble caused by failed Republican economic policies you'd be right. If you look at the link below you'll see that production has been on a steady upward trajectory throughout the time period, but demand fell off as the world fell into recession.
http://energyforumonline.com/?p=476
Honestly, Anna Molly-
Do I strike you as a Dr. Phil kind of guy?
I have a neighbor called Dr. Dave who occasionally dispenses medication to the locals...
Sometimes, I listen to Dave.
He's a righteous dude.
Back to the very first comments, no potted plants of mine have ever said "No," they just died.
As for which side are the Nazis-come on, guys, get real! Don't you think it's a really hysterical comparison? (ie, trains packed with Jews like cattle, mass graves, smokestacks, skeletal prisoners in striped pajamas, showers with poison gas, crematoriums) If you are using something like that, you must not be able to come up with anything better to argue your case; and that is pretty pathetic. By a similar token, I think the words "socialism" and "socialist" have essentially lost their original meanings. We might as well quit using them and just use the words "bad" or "evil" or whatever we REALLY mean and quit playing games.
U S Navy, thank you for your service, if it does not offend you for me to say so. I am wondering what a woman's uterus has to do with this article, however. (Before you jump down my throat about that I have been intimately involved in that issue in many different ways from many different perspectives for YEARS! Just not for this article.) Also, since it is difficult to prove a negative, I would think that the burden of proof would be on you-though I could believe that some of what you said was true. You are obviously passionate. Why not provide links?
Re the article, I don't have the answers. If this was an illegal act by the president, surely someone knows and can take action. I doubt that it was. I just wish that once an action was taken by a leader that leader would stand by his decision and not seem to waver. It makes both him and the country look weak. Also, I don't know if we should be sending missiles into Lybia. The whole thing makes me very uneasy for the same reasons it makes all of you uneasy.
BUT-if we are going to do it...for heaven's sake let's not apologize for every single missile! Has any nation in the world ever waged a military campaign without civilian casualties? Ever? If so, I never heard of it. Must we apologize for every one? Not that I don't abhor killing and death. Not that I don't hate war. But, IF we are going to do this thing...must we appologize for every civilian death? Should we go back and appologize for Dresden, Germany? If we had been that way then, the Allies never would have won the war. And, yes plenty of people questioned the war back then (ever read any memoirs?)-just as people still question whether we should have used nuclear bombs on Japan to stop it. If we had been then like we are now, we would have let Hitler get the Bomb first and he would have won. I'm not saying we should even do this. Just now that we are, let's not do it halfway, halting, and wavering. Won't that just cause more suffering in the end? Haven't we learned that already?
Unhealthy Media:
I’ve read that President Obama doesn’t spend much time watching cable news. In my opinion, he gets “extra credit” for not wasting his time with Fox, MSNBC, and CNN. I often call First Read the “mud pit” as we throw and dodge mud coming from our opponents.
Cable news looks more and more like one huge mud pit. CNN’s Nic Robertson tears into Fox News for saying Libyans used him as a human shield. He described the claim as outrageous and hypocritical. Beck says MSNBC is anti-God; whatever that means. And in a written column Ann Coulter stated that radiation is good for you: Followed by Ed Schultz comment that Ann Coulter is toxic. No wonder the American people have trouble getting good information.
Early this morning I was surfing about the Internet and came upon a Huffington Post Headline, “Stalemate Feared”. Great example of hysterical journalism! We are three days into creating a “no fly zone” in Libya and some journalist is already talking about a stalemate. A fleeting thought from a pundit’s mind and it ends up on the web. Pundits try to fill the vacuum, but there is still empty space to fill: both between the pundit’s ears and in cyberspace.
President Obama is wise not to pay attention to cable news. In-between dealing with world crisis’s, filling out the NCAA brackets and watching some b-ball has to be a better use of time.
Ron:
Great post. No matter what President Obama does it will be attacked by the right as not enough, too much, too soon or too late. This is what happens when they have NO ideas or plans to do anything to help move this country forward. They are just floundering around in their own filth period. Calling people names and not offering anything that will help but instead continue to be the major obstacle to the improvement of this country. That is the vow they took and they are standing fast on being a part of the problem.
Bravo for this. I've maintained for years that cable news is too much about itself, and not enough about the news. They take up too much time talking about themselves and each other, and they don't spend enough time getting into depth on the issues. There are very few, even at MSNBC, that this doesn't apply to.
Hey Ron,
I don't have cable because I refuse to waste my money on that trash. HOWEVER, if there is one time I wish I had it, it's to see the mushroom canisters Rachel Maddow's staff found on Ebay and, I understand, are the same ones pictured in Sharon Angle's video. Now that's entertainment!
Navy: your usual "the righties will attack Obama no matter what he does" mantra doesn't explain the criticism he's now getting from the left. Wanna give that one a try??
Anna Molly: It sure is good to hear from you today. I know you are quite busy, but keep us posted on what's happening in Madison. Inquiring minds want to know.
USNAVY: I enjoyed your post as well. It give the human element that so often is overlooked.
I was with you, Ron, til the last sentence---watching my team lose in the NCAA was very stressful! Thanks to the Pitt Panthers for a great season, though.
Seriously, I guess the news media micro-analyzes everything and puts a spin on it because it gets them ratings and fills up the tremendous amounts of time they have to put something out there but it is frustrating.
Steeler Fan:
Your Pit Panthers is a very good team and you can be proud of them. We started with four Indiana teams and now only Butler is left. They will have their hands full with Wisconsin.
Steeler Fan -- I hear you. I suspect I'll be stressed watching my own team do the same thing with the same opponent on Thursday. Second year in a row we will have been sucker-punched by Cinderella.
@ Ron -- good morning and thank you for the kind words. But I'm just sitting here watching the rain fall and waiting for the second coming of the great flood from the comfort of my living room. Very nice to see you, too.
Ron, you nailed it, excellent post. The 24/7 cable media has been in hyper-ventilation mode for the last four days. I turned it off most of yesterday because it was just speculation with little evidence to support it. No matter what the crisis, the media is busy doing its criticizing: The President isn't doing it fast enough, he's too fast; he's not engaged, he's too engaged; he should bomb Libya by himself, he shouldn't touch Libya and so on. It is a mud pit and it does a disservice to everyone.
I have cable because I like old movies and silly comedies; usually enjoy MSNBC especially their evening line up but sometimes they get hysterical so that's when I look for something else.
Navy, enjoyed your teacher post as well.
Joey Albany.... there are crazies on both sides (I don't know if you caught it, but that was the theme of the original post - I'll add that there's actually more on the right)...
Tunde:
A lot more, we see it here everyday. Same old same old from the party of NO.
The fact is that it's very difficult to fill a 24/7 schedule with just news. It's especially so when Congress is on a 10 day recess. In fact the House is in recess almost half the time now, that hardworking bunch of Conservatives. With Republicans avoiding the people's business a good share of the time the news bunch is left to forage for stories where they can find them. A great example of how two wrongs don't make a right.
Can any of you geniuses above help me with something?
Obama has defied court orders, is in contempt of court orders regarding the Gulf drilling, he has put a 7 year ban on drilling on the East and West coast, he has removed more and more Alaska areas off limits, still won't touch ANWR, cancelled leases on the continent on and on and on - a systematic, wanton crippling of our energy industry and goes to Brazil and says.....
Question:
Why does Obama want to develop Brazilian offshore stuff, but not ours?
Why does Obama want to help the Brazilian economy, but not ours?
Why does Obama want to help Brazil create energy jobs, but not America?
Why does Obama support the US Export-Import Bank lending $2 billion to Petrobras with the promise of plenty more to come while railing against us oli companies?
And if Global warming is the real deal as he says, why isn't he telling them to go green, build wind mills, etc. Does he not realize that Brazil is on the same globe?
And if dependency on foreign oil is bad deal, why does he promote, invest and pledge our dependency to Brazil? Does Obama not realize they are foreign too?
I could go on, but you get the idea (well at least Ron and Tunde).
Any answers?
Anything up there bother you guys?
The "teabagger" theme" "Don't tread on ME, let ME tread on THEE! Somehow, I don't think that is what the Founders had in mind. As to Libya? It is fun watching the usual malcontents dance around the support given to "freedom fighters". Also, when you attack a foreign trip that this President is on to foster economic development, you know you have nothing left. It is interesting: I never saw this kind of attack on a President before, minimizing his obligation to restore America's standing in the world. A reasonable person must ask; is it due to his color or party? Or is it just plain hate?
Amy B -
You mean I'm not the last person in the world who doesn't have cable? Cool! Maybe we could start our own club - People Who Actually Still Have Thoughts Without Having To Pay Someone To Tell Them What To Think. Well, maybe the acronym could be a little catchier - I'll get right on it!
Isn't it amazing how all these so called experts come out of the wood work when ever there's a crisis? Their not experts their just giving their opinions. And the hosts of these talk shows need to point that out when they introduce them. And all these retired military men, are not experts their just giving their bias opinions.
You nailed it NDD!
It's the tea bagger tri-fecta!
'Color of his skin' did come in first...
Between Joe S and Pat B - I just can't seem to stop watching that morning wreck. I think Joe S is actually going to blow a gasket. I've never seen a human (sic) head explode before and that is my defense for keeping it tuned to that channel.
That and they do tend to get some of the more interesting guests,...
and John B, no fair - Lobbyists need their time to entertain their paid for Congressional people. Have a little compassion for the Corporatists and Lobbyists - they need time to SHOW the love, too!
NDD and Feisty,
Plain Hate would be a welcome sight. This hate is amped up on steroids and coming at us like Spider Monkeys,...odd don't you think?
Bob (numbers)
"Anything up there bother you guys?" No, not really. Perhaps you do a little bit.
Clara: I think you put that awfully well! Feisty: that comparison of you to Rachel is a HUGE compliment! Good for the rightie for noticing! Don't you just love it that poor bobby, who is SOOOOO worried about how accurate Navy's posting is about Hitler making it an early order of business to shut down unions that he is STILL squirming at the very truth of it! I'll have something to laugh at the rest of the day. Hitler shut down unions, Walker, Koch and the "teabaggers" are trying to shut down unions...what more do you need to know about THAT despicable group of morally challenged "people"?
newday:
I saw Barry McCaffrey on MSNBC complaining about how terrible it was that Obama was getting us into a war without an endgame. I seem to recall that the very same Barry McCaffrey was pounding on the war tom-toms for Bush's Iraq invasion despite the fact that it really was a real war without any real end game. I don't know the reasons, but there's clearly a totally different standard being used now to judge a president's military actions than was used in 2003.
Houston!
It must be another one of those infamous TESTS. While the man has passed them all with flying colors (especially the orals), those left in the dust storm of his competency must yet again TEST him.
If W would have had this many tests - without cliff notes, mind you - CAN YOU IMAGINE the epic failure? Oh wait, nevermind.
The spin used by the right defies credulity, Houston. It is never about Country, it is always party first, last and always.
Yesterday I stated President Obama, while turning the domestic issues around in the United States, has also multilaterally unified many nations. Now that's "Change you can believe in." I made another attempt to tune into MSNBC this morning and found the same talking heads leveling the same old criticisms at the president. Then on top of that they tried to spin the resolution as an act of war. Give me a break. These people appear like fools more often than they realize and they seem to enjoy it. They may as well work for FAUX News. MSNBC is casting lots.
This what MSNBC and FAUX News wants, they want the president to mess up so that they can line their pockets with the results… sounds kind of Republicanish dontcha think?
But since the president has not slipped up to the degree that they can cash in on, they create topics to make it just as appealing to those that do not wish to read into it as it was made to. Instead of reporting on the actions of multilateralism against a possible genocide and allowing other nations to be the leading proponent of a unified alliance, they say the president is waging war without permission with the intent of occupation. And then when Gadhafi remains in power (which is a possibility), they will say that the president failed. And Gadhafi may well remain in power, and if he does, be responsible journalists, ok!?
They know full well that some people will buy that and believe it because they (the "journalists" and pundits) are more akin to entertainers than actual journalist that wish to only sell garbage instead of the truth. When you start writing in truth, then you will get respect, until then you get none.
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
And one more thing, if Gadhafi is ousted, the vacuum will be filled by educated people that believe in democracy... but that won't stop FAUX news group of entertainers or certain MSNBC 'personalities' from saying they are elitist that are hell bent on destroying the world while the Muslim leader, President Obama is a Mau Mau from Kenya Island on the Continent of Indonesia from the planet Omicron Persei 8.
Buried in the CNN website, I found an article describing The President's visit to Brazil, where he gave a speech on the common aim of freedom of our two countries, which listeners described as "profound,""historic,"and "inspiring." I read about his visit to the shanty neighborhoods depicted in the movie Children of God, with his beautiful family, Michelle wearing a dress in the colors of the Brazilian flag. The impact of the Obamas' visit to Brazil will live on long after he returns to the U.S. Do Americans appreciate the efforts of our President and First Lady on our behalf? I don't think the media does, but I do.
LouisJ
I tried watching MSNBC this morning, I was irritated the most by Pat Buchanan. Pat kept running his mouth off about the No Fly Zone as if that was the only thing in the UN resolution. Andrea Mitchell put him in his place, she told him the resolution stated not only No Fly Zone but whatever means necessary to stop the murder of innocent people. Good for Andrea, she is probably the only one on the panel to have read th resolution. She is more knowledgeable than all the others at the table including Joe & Pat.
Great post, Amy---the President and his family represent the best of America so well---how sad that there is no media coverage of that.
Careful, LouisJ-
The "professional left" may collapse you again.
DottieLou:
Right on. P. Buchannan's time has come and gone a decade ago. He continues to try and make himself relevant and all his does is come across as a frustrated old jerk that should just hang it up and move on. Take Joe S. with him.
I'll take my stripes with the fuzzy feeling that my point was made.
:^/
Hi Amy and all Obama supporters, wonderful posts by all. Here are some photos from a State Dinner the President and First Lady attended. You have to scroll down a bit. This trip has been hugely successful. How I remember Barack Obama and family in Springfield, ILL when he announced his decision to run for President. I remember how young his daughters were. Look at them now. My oh my. What a lovely family.
At the official dinner in Santiago, hosted by Chilean President Sebastian Pinera and his wife Cecilia Morel, President Obama offered a toast to his Chilean hosts. He said he and his family and staff, as they flew in this morning on Air Force One, were “struck by the incredible beauty of the Andes”.
“To you, and the people of Santiago and Chile, thank you for the extraordinary hospitality that you have shown both me, Michelle and our daughters. … thank you for the friendship and strong bonds.”
“For many years, this was a symbol of how Chile lost its democracy. Today, it stands as a testament to how Chile regained and rebuilt your democracy. … At a time when others around world are reaching for own rights struggling for their own sense of dignity, Chile sends a powerful message.”
Obama referred directly to the democracy movements in the Middle East and North Africa before offering this thought: “Democracy can’t be imposed from the outside, it must spring from within from the hearts and souls of those who seek it.”
____________
Of all the politicians President Barack Obama encounters during his current Latin American tour, none is likely to be more welcoming than Salvadoran president Mauricio Funes. Elected in 2009 as El Salvador’s first leftist leader since the end of its bloody civil war in 1992, Funes — much like Obama himself — is a youthful populist who campaigned as a progressive but governs as a pragmatist. A political neophyte, Funes’ pro-business and anti-crime policies have transformed the former CNN en Espanol correspondent into the great Gringo hope of Central America.
As El Salvador struggles with a stagnant economy, rising drug-trafficking trade and one of the world’s highest murder rates, the Obama visit on March 22 is a high-profile effort to ensure Funes’ hope is not merely hype. Unlike Chile and Brazil — Obama’s other Latin American destinations — El Salvador offers little in terms of natural resources or geopolitical might. Instead, El Salvador’s success is as much symbolic as strategic — a Cold War-era battleground that’s traded civil war for civil society while neighboring governments still deal with coups, corruption and communism.
“Funes has cultivated a sense of inclusion, tolerance and civility within a very stable democracy,” says Joseph Tulchin, visiting fellow at Harvard University’s David Rockefeller Center for Latin American Studies. “He represents [America's] bet on peace, a bet on democracy — he’s a reformist in a region where there aren’t that many around.”
http://theobamadiary.com/
Louis, I am grateful that we are helping the rebels, and hope that this was the best method of doing so.
That said, there is no way we can allow Qaddafi to escape this noose.
Remember Pan Am 103? I do. It was two years after Reagan sought to teach I'm a lesson after the vomiting of a German night club in which two Americans were killed.
He needs to be removed- not just from power, but from the face of the earth.
Good Morning DottieLou!
Has Boehner responded to any of your e-mails yet advising you of where the J O B S are yet? ;o)
Nice post, Louis J. MSNBC and CNN are the least partisan stations during the day. Trouble is that in their efforts to provide a discussion by both sides, they miss the real story. Journalism is reporting facts rather than giving both sides a chance to bash each other. I read an op ed not long ago which clarified what has happened to the media--it said that the media fails to recognize that sometimes taking sides is what good journalists do, they should report the truth not both sides of the issue. Walter Cronkhite famously declared Vietnam a lost war--he spoke the truth without considering the two-sided partisan views in his analysis.
Pat, thanks for sharing. The media has not spent enough time reporting the President's trip.
NJ, Gadhafi needs to go, no doubt about that. He is dangerous... but the reality is that there is the likelihood that he will not lose power nor will he be driven out. The simple and yet disturbing fact is that villains often escape to fight another day. I would be happy if the people of Libya became a nation that practices the concept of liberty, but that depends on how this operation unfolds and how the governments in the Mediterranean Basin keep the pressure on them to be about the people and freedom. Libya can have an impact just as Egypt is having an impact.
"It was two years after Reagan sought to teach I'm a lesson after the vomiting of a German night club in which two Americans were killed."
NoJoe, you really need to sit down and have a talk with that iPad of yours one of these days.....
Sorry, JoAnne- the phone rang as I was finishing the post- and the little gizmo struck again.
It was, of course, supposed to read BOMBING. I just got back to it now.
Mea culpable.
Satisfied?
is that like being handi capable?
A little prickly there, aren't we nojo? Do you not proof read? they give you time to, you should take advantage of it.
no joe, no bo, nj
I have an iPad too, that spell check function is whacked! It has a mind of it's own. The worst part is when it "corrects" my email address, to something completely different, EVERY TIME. Also, I can't watch most videos. But, aside from that, it's OK.
Louis J.Very good post I fear Gadhafi could still hold on to power. If he does we might be there for a while. Well we can hope that somehow he is forced out and that the Libyans can form a democracy.
Is the Party Over? Rallies in support of the Public Union employees are still drawing big crowds across the United States. How about the Tea Part? Great article below;
http://thinkprogress.org/2011/03/21/at-the-dregs-major-florida-tea-party-convention-attracts-few/
“With Fox News host Glenn Beck’s ratings down and the biggest tea party rally eclipsed by a recent pro-labor rally in Wisconsin, could the tea party be losing steam? One new sign: a big tea party convention in Tampa, FL this weekend — headlined by such conservative favorites as Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX), Fox News Judge Andrew Napolitano, and former GOP Congressman Tom Tancredo — attracted only about 300 people. The Save America Convention’s website lists 25 guest speakers, meaning there was one speaker for every 12 attendees. If one includes the 13 musicians and other performers listed as entertainment, that ratio drops to one for every 7 and a half”.
The so-called Tea Party is nothing more than the Republican base, the same folks who gave us Nixon (I am not a crook), Spiro Agnew (I am a crook), George W. Bush, Dick Cheney (if the President does it, it's legal), Karl Rove (wives of policy critics are fair game), Rumsfeld, the neo-cons, the Wall Street bandits, etc.
The so-called Tea Party philosophy is appealing, with it's emphasis on small government and low taxes, until these folks take office and then they set to work defunding Planned Parenthood, attacking the benefits of teachers and other public workers, and making the world safe for polluters. Just ask us, in Maine, where the TeaParty governor proposed repealing the ban on the chemical BPA from sippy cups, at the behest of the chemical industry. That's the reality behind the Tea Party dream.
Amy:
You summed it up just right. The GOP/TP and their ideology has been exposed and more people every day are speaking out against what they are doing. We can only hope that come 2012 the people remember just how this party wants to destroy democracy as we know it. Time will tell.
Yup, said from the beginning that the TP was just a rebranding effort on the part of the same old Conservative Movement. At the time TP followers were rabid in their criticism that this is something entirely new and different, completely set apart from the Republican Party. Turns out not so much.
Navy, according to Ed S, the labor movement is still going strong; he showed tape of Iraq War Veteran's marching in Wisconsin Saturday to support the unions along with thousands of other demonstrators. I've said a number of times on FR, the Tea Party was doing the rest of the country a big favor revealing who and what the GOP really is about. The TP has exposed the truth behind the GOP. Traditional republicans always hid their agenda and just chipped away at rights without a lot of notice--gung ho TPers just moved full steam ahead and woke the sleeping giant of the middle class. Would like to be a fly on the wall in a room full of regular GOPer strategists--bet they are not happy campers.
So now the Tea Party is the Repub base! I thought you said that they were racists, bigots and the like.You are just a propagandist like the rest of the Left. Demonize and destroy.
It is amazing to read such misinformation. Just to the left of your way of thinking is called communism. How in the world can you state that Republicans want to destroy democracy. You keep lumping Tea Party efforts in with Republicans. This may be true to an extend. However, The so called Tea Party will oppose Democrat and Republican uqually that will not support a return to fiscal responsibility in Washington. If you do not believe the need to cut spending is urgent. So be it. Time will certainly tell. Obama's own budget submission back in Februry calls for 9.5 trillion dollars in deficits over the next ten years. Added to a 14 trillion dollar debt today. Keep on dreaming that this is viable.
If you support unionized teachers, that is certainly your right. However, over the years with unionized teachers, the quality of education has declined not improved. Unions have protected poor performance by teachers. The only benefactor of unionized teachers has been the teachers themselves. Teachers do not teach better because of a union. Taking on unions is not destroying democracy. The down fall of unions is the result, in part of the unions themselves. You can deny this. But that does not change the facts.
So Amy, what is your rational for taxpayers funding Planned Parenthood? Educate me here. It's a private organization correct? Is it a charity?
Second, I am not attacking public workers or unions, however, the way their benefits are funded is in my view not sustainable. You tell me how to fund the retirement of a cop or firefighter if they live for 30 years after retirement? How much will that cost? It's not the people or work that they do but the fact that life expectancy is greater and the old economic models don't work any more.
Further to that, and this is political, public unions having an influence on the people who they negotiate their wages and benefits with through elections is just as corrupt as corporations having influance with those who regulate them. Both practices are corrupt and should be stopped.
Hey, Navy? You hear anything about a recall in Miami- Dade? Seems the mayor and a councilwoman were recalled from office by 88% of the electorate after raising taxes and giving raises.
Guess who organized and manned the petition drives and get out the vote effort?
Not hard to explain Alan. The low-cost health exams, prenatal advice, and birth control services that Planned Parenthood provides to low income mothers pays for itself many times over in terms of reduced health care costs that have to be borne by the public. contrary to what most of the Right would have one believe that's the overwhelming majority of their work, not abortion services.
Alan, what is a police officer worth, and for how long? Look at salaries in major league sports -- they seem absolutely ridiculous, but the market will bear it, and everyone knows that athletes have a relatively short shelf life. Police officers are supposed to safeguard the public and risk their lives doing so. How much is it worth to a retailer to be assured that the police will come when called and work to stop/solve crimes? How much is it worth to the public to have officers who are not influenced by bribes? Unless people can come up with a reasonable assessment of worth, it will be hard to revamp a system. And there continues to be a misconception about who bargains -- most of the people who do the actual bargaining are not the elected officials but the appointed ones, lawyers.
On April 15, 1986 President Ronald Reagan authorized and the U.S. Military carried out Operation El Dorado Canyon which was a stealth attack on Libya with its leadership being specific targets. It was an act of war. No Congressional approval or sanction was sought or approved
On September 20, 2004 President Bush by Executive Order lifted the Sanctions that had been put in place by Reagan and enforced since 1986 by agencies of the U.S. government. Was it a good idea? Probably not. No Congressional approval or action was sought or approved.
President Obama has responded to the Request of the United Nations to take action in conjunction with a Coalition of other members by having our fine Military take action to prevent the Leadership of Libya from pursuing an avowed course of genocide against its own people. Is it a good idea. Probably not. While the Motive is pure the result is not beneficial. Destruction never is. It’s a tough decision that I’m glad I’m not charged with making never the less the decision at this point has been made and is being carried out with all appropriate vigor.
Congress is in snit. Both sides of the aisle.
Should they Convene in Session, hold hearings and have a free and robust debate on the circumstances surrounding this action. By all means. That is their function and I think that folks of both sides of the aisle would welcome it. I think the President would welcome it because it would serve the function of informing not just We the People but the rest of the World the limits that we expect to be placed on this action. This would also be a good time to review just how far we are willing to allow our President’s to go in pursuit of the actions that the War Powers act implies. We the People need to see it.
However as has become the pattern since the first of the year when the time comes for this robust debate I find the Speaker of the House and the House of Representatives conspicuous by their absence. Since this Congress and the House of Representatives has convened this is seems to be the preferred method of discharge of their duty. They show up and take a few symbolic votes and put out a couple of sound bites and then disappear into the hinterlands doing God knows what. They have contributed nothing since January except negative rhetoric and empty symbolism intended to placate the most extreme.
The time for this debate is here and now. Not in front of the Network Cameras and on the daily talking heads circuit. In the Halls of Congress. Specifically in the House of Representatives that is supposed to represent the more immediate will of the We the People.
My question Mr. Speaker is why are you avoiding it? Are you afraid that you’ re going to find out (as others this spring have)that you don’t quite have as much support for your agenda as you say you have? Or are you simply afraid that if We the People take a close look at you and your current crop of legislators you are going to be revealed as the incompetents that your actions since the first of the year seem to indicate?
IR:
How true. The GOP/TP complains that our President did not ask Mommy May I to them but totally ignore the number of times a Republican President did not consult with Congress either. It is called Hypocrisy and nobody doe it better than the GOP/TP. "Do as I SAY, Not as I DO". Rules and Laws do not apply to them or their cronies.
Dennis Kucinich has joined the Tea Party?
But IR--that would require actually working on behalf of the people, going to Washington, rolling up their sleeves and doing what they were elected to do. I'm not convinced that anyone on either side of the aisle is interested in doing that.
There you go, Independent, deflating the Republican argument against The President using historical facts. Don't you know Americans have the attention span of gnats? We are a forward looking people!
So what if Rumsfeld personally delivered the chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein he used against his own people. Forget it! That's the past! So what if Reagan also bombed Libya without congressional approval! Not relevant! The world is born anew every day. Focus on criticizing President Obama, man, don't you know today's agenda?
Independent: Thanks for as Amy stated, your "historical facts".
Be careful what you wish for, IR.
Personally, I would love to see how many House Democrats are willing to cast a vote in support of President Obama's decision to intervene in Libya.
Trust me...not too many are pushing Speaker Boehner for the opportunity to go on the record.
MB, I think you can depend on Dennis Kucinich to be against nearly ANY use of military force anywhere in the world. That's sort of his niche. It's a thorn in the side of Democrats when he does it at times like these, but it's part of belonging to a party that tolerates dissenting opinions.
My favorite Dennis Kucinich moment was when he was running for President and participating in a debate. A question proposed that each candidate turn to the one immediately to their left. Being at the end of the line Kucinich observed "there's no one to my left." The moderator replied "we tried, Congressman, but we couldn't find anyone to your left."
No Mixed Mr Kucinich hasn't changed parties to the best of my knowledge. He has a legitimate point of view and deserves to be heard. Point is is that the House has to be in session for him to advance it. Since the Speaker is in control of that little function he seems to be stifling Mr Kucinich's willingness to bring the question to the debate.
If you read my post immediately below, you will see that Governor Walker also failed to consult with his own Secretary of State before filing an appeal IN THE SECRETARY'S NAME.
This is nothing but a red herring, and everyone knows it.
But frankly, it's all they've got.
True that. Going on the record about Iraq undid a few members of Congress in 2008.
Again, IR and John B.-
I have no problem with a full House debate and a vote on a resolution on Libya.
I don't think you'll be too happy with the support for the President coming from your side of the aisle, though.
IR, excellent post. How quickly the public and Congress forgets what has been done previously. What bothers me is Congress gets their noses out of joint, fusses and fumes and then moves to the next fuss and fume topic, that's it. I agree President Obama and the people would welcome an honest discussion but as in so many other things, what Congress does is go on a witch hunt instead.
John B. & IR-
My comment about Kucinich was directed at US Navy...who appears to be laboring under the delusion that all of the ire against the President's Libya intervention is coming from the GOP...that's pure fantasy.
Why bother? By the time that happens, at least according to Obama, this thing will be over.
Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-22/allies-control-of-airspace-in-libya-puts-qaddafi-s-ground-forces-at-risk.html
The only thing Congress will be asked to do by Obama is to pay for it all. It's just another $100 billion on the debt. Kind of nulls out that $60 billion the GOP was trying to save, now doesn't it?
At least Halliburton will be pleased. Someone will have to rebuild those oil fields.
Mixed it shouldn't come as any suprise to you but past what we are already doing I don't favor the continuation if this little Shindig. I can buy it right now under the guise of doing the right thing for right now. Personally I think we would be doing all of us a favor by getting all sides on the record so we don't have to deal with mission creep here in a couple of weeks. If the will is made clear to both the Executive Branch and the World then in this case I don't care how the Politics look.
"At least Halliburton will be pleased. Someone will have to rebuild those oil fields."
OMG...not Halliburton! Surely some other contractor could handle the job...
How would that look...?
Just one more hypocrisy on top of all the other hypocrisies for Obama.
From The Boston Globe in 2007:
I'll leave it up to Anna Molly to decide if this is "good hypocrisy" or "bad hypocrisy".
JoAnna do you ever get your facts and figures straight? It's not 100 billion as you stated, it's 100 million. And it is not borrowed money it is coming out of the pentagons current budget. I honestly think you know better you just like to make up your own facts, I know it sounds better to say 100 billion, of course that goes along with the rest of your post about saving 60 billion but it's not true.
No mission creep, IR.
The goal is clear.
"It's time for Gaddafi to go."
It doesn't get much clearer than that.
MO:
She never lets the facts get in the way of a good lie. Kar Rove would be proud, watch this is another typo.
Mixed Bag - I'm not so sure that mission creep will not pop up. I looked at the resolution.
UN resolution 1973 No fly zone - from BBC news
1. Demands the immediate establishment of a ceasefire and a complete end to violence and all attacks against, and abuses of, civilians;
2. Stresses the need to intensify efforts to find a solution to the crisis which responds to the legitimate demands of the Libyan people and notes the decisions of the Secretary-General to send his Special Envoy to Libya and of the Peace and Security Council of the African Union to send its ad hoc High-Level Committee to Libya with the aim of facilitating dialogue to lead to the political reforms necessary to find a peaceful and sustainable solution;
3. Demands that the Libyan authorities comply with their obligations under international law, including international humanitarian law, human rights and refugee law and take all measures to protect civilians and meet their basic needs, and to ensure the rapid and unimpeded passage of humanitarian assistance...
It also talks about asset freezing and a no fly zone. There are a total of 29 points, will not post them all. One talks specifically about an arms embargo, therefore I hope that means that we will not be arming anyone and prolonging or directly intervening further.
Sorry, Mark-
I should have been more specific.
"It's time for Gaddafi to go." Those are the words of President Obama. That is HIS mission.
IR, Nice post we can always rely on you to do the homework. I will support the President's decision on this mission. tho I do so with e heavy heart. Three young men who I love are in uniform in the middle east. I hope this mission goes well and that we bring home our young men & women safely. As for Congress both Reid and Boehner should be ashamed of themselves. Congress should have never been allowed to recess without a budget. They should have been locked in until they reached a deal. let them out for a few hours and come back and work on a jobs bill. when you finish those to then take a break.
Thanks Lisa. I share that heavy heart. Just like the heavy heart I had watching the start of Iraq. Sooner or later we have got to find a better way to handle these problems. And when it comes to that I really don't care about the politics involved. We'll add a good thought up on the Hill of an evening for your three and thier safe return to home and hearth. Did you pass on the regards to the Pilot like I asked you to yesterday?
IR not yet he's out on a trip. But I promise I will. We do have to find a better way and we need to be more prepared when these situations arise. I don't pretend to have the answers but I know the divide in this country is not good for the USA.
I hear you. Have a good evening and keep well and we'll go back to trying to bridge that divide tomorrow.
IR, I would like to at least try i feel that it's real important to be positive and to try an actually listen to each other.
What’s new in Wisconsin?
Well, let’s see ….
Add veterans to the list of those who don’t like Walker’s attempts to crush collective bargaining rights --
(I can’t wait to hear the conservatives attack the vets) --
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_a2d42e2a-5288-11e0-b393-001cc4c03286.html
Add republicans to the list of those who don’t like Walker’s plans to defund recycling – they think it won’t save money (imagine that) –
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_e791e3fe-5404-11e0-8d8a-001cc4c002e0.html?sourcetrack=moreArticle
Add the arts to the list of things Walker wants to destroy –
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_746f01ec-5420-11e0-9464-001cc4c03286.html
Add the Secretary of State to the list of Wisconsin elected officials with whom Walker refuses to consult –
http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_1cd4920c-541c-11e0-8303-001cc4c03286.html
And that's the way it is on Tuesday, March 22, here in the heartland. Courage.
Anna Molly:
Morning, sorry I was MIA yesterday. What is up with the Fitzgerald Clan (I think that is the name). You know the ones that control the GOP State Senate and House. Their father who was head of the Sheriff's Dept ran for his old office and LOST big time, so they found a better position for Daddy. And Hooper who cheats on his wife (who says she will sign his recall), now lives outside the district in violation of State law and gives his new love of his life a pay raise that is $12,000 more than the going rate for that position.
Government is being totally corrupted by the right period.
You've got that right, Navy. Nepotism at its finest, alive and well in what used to be THE bastion of clean government. Sex scandals are nothing new among the pious right-wingers. But the part I love about the Fitzgerald story is that the state patrol officers themselves aren't particularly enamored with the governor, so I imagine that gives Papa Fitzgerald some fits these days. You can see just by watching Scott Fitzgerald's antics in the Senate that those boys were certainly raised to get their own way. Like Daddy, like sons, I have no doubt.
What bothers me is how the rest of us allowed this to happen. Unfortunately, undoing the damage will be difficult.
Oh Anna Molly:
I kinda wished I hadn't asked. There has to be some blue skies behind those clouds.
"Sunshine on my shoulders," Ron.
If you don't see it, create it. ;-)
"Gov. Scott Walker’s plan to eliminate mandated recycling along with the $32-million-a-year funding for local programs."
Holy cow, what is it with these Republican right-wingers and recycling? Our Republican state legislature is mulling over repealing the popular bottle bill, because beverage distruibuters says it costs them money to have deposits on their containers. So, the "fix" is to have taxpayers pay for curbside recycling. Sounds like, somewhere down the line, our recycling program would also get axed, and those bottles and cans would end up, once again in landfills. No wonder Republican is the opposite of the word Progressive, they want to take us back to pollutin' days of the early 60's.
My guess is that Waste Management and other garbage hauling companies ahve figured out an angle on this where they make more money without recycling than they do with it. And maybe they've invested in landfill property.
Somehow, some way, you can figure some corporate paymaster is going to make a buck here.
Anna Molly, thanks for the updates from Wisconsin. Our union busting bill here in Iowa has died in the Senate, thanks partly to the inspiration brought out of the THOUSANDS of people who won't lie down like doormats in Wisconsin. It's important to recognize that this isn't just something that popped up in one state out of the blue. There's a coordinated effort through the American Legislative Exchange Council. http://www.alec.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Model_Legislation1 Wanna know what ALEC has in mind for us ordinary Americans? You're out of luck, you have to belong to the club to be privy to that information.
You're out of luck, you have to belong to the club to be privy to that information.
LoL John -- I saw your post yesterday and I already knew that. But the agenda itself is making itself crystal clear. They could only hide it so long.
Glad to hear you've had better success in Iowa. The fight isn't over here, at least not yet, despite our hypocritical attorney general stamping his little foot. I say hypocritical because just a few months ago he wrote a very strong memo in defense of the open meetings law that he now argues isn't all that important.
Just another bought-and-sold republican drone.
John B:
I have to check, but I think Rachael had a piece on them a few months ago. I know the GOP/TP uses them as a sounding board for a lot of their rhetoric. If I can find the info I will post it for ya.
Anna Molly
Maybe some corportist noticed the army of retired and low income folks making a living off collecting bottles for recycling and decided to get into the business for himself by bribing the Republicans to remove the deposit, then bidding for the recycling job. Sounds like the usual plan for transferring wealth upwards the Republicans like so much.
Well, Anna, I have no way of knowing what the situation is in Wisconsin, but I CAN tell you the recycling story in my town:
In the beginning, the town was making money from the bottles, newspapers, and plastic being recycled- and passing it on in the form of lower taxes.
Next, it started costing us money to have the newspaper picked up. The town said- paper recycling is no longer mandated. The cartage company did not get the message.
They then started charging us for the glass and plastic- although there IS a market for it. Fine, said the mayor- we will stop giving you the resource you use to turn a profit.
Suddenly, we were making money on the recyclables again, and the mandates went back in place.
See, businesses are in business to make a profit. If they can increase their profits by charging so much for their service that they no longer pay, but charge, for raw materials, why would they not?
There is a lot of money in reselling recyclables. It is in the governing body's interest to make sure that its constituents get a piece of the action.
If recycling programs cost Wisconsin $32 million, I suspect someone has taken his or her eye off the ball.
Grasping At Straws (or, uhhh, soccer balls)
Yesterday a few regular posters here went out of their way to try to paint a picture of President Obama casually enjoying a game of soccer during his Brazil trip and implying that he was cavalierly ignoring the situation in Libya while frolicking on a family vacation. I would have had a hard time believing that even of a serial vacationer like former President Bush, so I wondered if these posters could possibly be exaggerating the story just a bit to suit their own twisted narrative. So last night I read an Associated Press account of this story that give quite a different picture
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42190774
"President Barack Obama didn't just take in Rio's famous tourist sites during his visit Sunday, instead making his first stop a notorious slum where police recently wrested control from a violent drug gang......
At a community center, the president shed his coat and tie, rolled up his sleeves and dribbled a soccer ball one-on-one with a delighted boy. Michelle Obama and daughters Sasha and Malia also kicked a ball around with the kids......
Advisers said the Rio slum tour was designed to call attention to his push for reducing violence, a major concern for Latin American countries wrestling with drug gang wars and lingering poverty.
City of God gained worldwide notoriety after the 2002 film, which told of the slum's transformation over five decades from a government-planned housing project for the poor to a violent haven for cocaine gangs. The same story has been repeated in hundreds of Rio slums.
In 2009, however, City of God became part of an ambitious police "pacification" program, in which security forces clear heavily armed gangs from slums and establish a police presence. The program aims to reduce violence in Rio before the 2014 World Cup and 2016 Olympic Games and improve the lives of shantytown residents by bringing in basic services.
Noemia Marinho, a 40-year-old lingerie saleswoman who lives in the slum and got her hair done just for the presidential visit, said she hopes Obama's presence inspires Brazil to pay more attention to her neighborhood.
"He is thinking of Rio as more than just the Christ and Copacabana," Marinho said, referring to the city's iconic hilltop statue and world-famous beach. "Maybe our government will look to us more as well."
Look - we can and in fact SHOULD debate the administration's overall policy regarding the Libya crisis with each other. Heck, I'm still debating it just with myself. But deliberately blowing one brief moment way out of proportion pretty much negates the credibility these posters' discussion of actual policy issues might otherwise have had.
It's 2011 - and current technology enables the President to stay just as actively involved in the Libyan situation in Brazil as he would be in Washington. And even if he were in Washington this week, there are other vital national issues demanding his attention.I expect my president to be not just the Commander in Chief, but the Multi-tasker in Chief as well.
The few minutes the President spent interacting with these Brazilians on a purely human level may engender some much-needed goodwill and perhaps help restore the image of the U.S. in a part of the world we've long ignored despite its growing economic importance. Or maybe not. But I seriously doubt that taking a few minutes to kick a soccer ball in Brazil could have even the slightest impact on the overall success or failure of our mission in Libya, and to try to claim otherwise is beyond ludicrous.
I think that this trip to South America was extremely important, although the timing was VERY unfortunate. People from Brazil and other South American countries are right in their thinking that we ignore them. When was the last time you saw a real news story about South America that didn't involve Hugo Chavez or drug lords in Colombia?
JoAnne--great post. I'm sorry we are even having this discussion----to me it shows the hypocrisy of the President's critics---when he takes time to make a decision (during which he is gathering facts, consulting with experts, gaining support for positions) he is accused of "dithering" but having set a plan in motion and proceeding with previously scheduled activities is criticized as not being focused. What was he supposed to be doing in Washington that he couldn't do in Brazil? It kind of makes me think---is this the best they can come up with?
JoAnne, PA. Thank you for providing the facts, excellent post. It is such a pleasure to see OUR President and his family doing good things. President Obama has always made time to visit the poorer places wherever he goes--that says a great deal about the man.
Hey guys -
Since the soccer ball was back today and now includes samba dancing (see #1.16 above), I decided to Google "Obama Brazil Samba" to see what I could find on that distortion, too, and look what I found instead - is this awesome, or what?
"For the lucky few, Rio de Janeiro is a playground filled with beach soccer, bikinis and samba. But the reality is bleak for those living in the lowlands of Belford Roxo on the outskirts of the city. This town was once known as the most dangerous city in the world, and the few politicians who have tried to change things there have been silenced.
But as Belford Roxo’s mayoral campaign heats up, FRONTLINE/World’s Andrés Cediel reports that many residents have turned to one candidate who, inspired by the historic U.S. elections, has been sounding a message of change and hope. His name is Claudio Henrique, but the people have given him a new name, which they chant wherever he goes: “Barack Obama! Barack Obama!”
“It started as a joke, in a playful, affectionate way,” explains Henrique. “And then it picked up steam, until it became serious. At the party convention after the announcement of my name the members began to shout, ‘That’s our Barack Obama!’ When it came time to register, I chose the name: Claudio Henrique Barack Obama.”
It turns out Brazilian law allows candidates to run under any name they choose, as long as it is not offensive. So, what started out as a small joke turned into an international phenomenon, as commentators around the world ran with the story of Obama Mania in Brazil. The punch line was that Claudio was not alone: At least seven other candidates across the country were using Obama’s name.
But for these black politicians trying to break Brazil’s political color barrier, the reality was no joke.
“I think Brazil is living in a moment of Obama proliferation,” says João Luiz de Souza, a professor of Brazilian literature. “And this is very good for us, because Obama is a symbol of affirmation for Brazil and for all the populations that have suffered the stigma of not having the possibility or lack of access to power.”
At least half of the country’s population has African ancestry – making Brazil the largest black nation on earth, after Nigeria. But these numbers have not translated to political power, as black politicians are virtually absent from government.
“I’m not sure Americans understand what Obama means to the world,” says de Souza. “I think that just as Brazil has many Obamas, there should be Obamas scattered all over the world. Everyone now wants to be a bit like Obama. Everyone wants to be a proponent of dialogue and exchange.”
For the full story and video:
http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/brazil801/video/video_index.html
P.S. - I just watched the entire video myself. Amazing.....and heartbreaking. Be prepared.
Incoherent GOP/TP. It is becoming increasingly apparent that the Grand Old Party is dysfunctional. Their two-year strategy of attacking and criticizing President Obama for everything he does has made them sound shrill and has left them without purpose and without a coherent message beyond tax and spending cuts. Not only that, they do not know from week to week what they really believe because the GOP claims to support something until the moment President Obama said he agrees--instant "we've changed our minds."
McCain has been chomping at the bit to bomb, bomb, bomb Libya without building a coalition of international forces--just bomb and who cares about the US again being the unilateral invader and/or occupier. Now that President Obama has succeeded in achieving an international effort, McCain says it should have been done two weeks ago. Apparently, according to experts, McCain ignores that other humanitarian efforts by the UN took months to happen--President Obama succeeded in just a couple weeks. This is a humanitarian mission not a regime change mission. The UN intent is to prevent a massacre of Libyan civilians, not invade, occupy Libya and eliminate Gadhafi.
Senator Richard Lugar, a republican I normally respect, suddenly is concerned about the cost for the U.S. of the UN joint military operation. Where was he for the 10 years we've been in Afghanistan and the 8 in Iraq? Those wars cost over a trillion borrowed dollars but he's fussing now about $100-500 million. This proves the GOP/TP has been so consistently anti-President Obama on any and all things that it has become a party without a message--they fully support military action as long as it isn't a democrat in the White House.
The GOP is doing a tap dance of "being for it before they were against it" for so long that I do not think they even know what their position really is.
The only republican who has made any sense about Libya is Speaker Boehner. He said he supported the UN and the President's action because it was a necessary, humanitarian effort. Boehner gets it.
Of course, Boehner did add that he wished the President had consulted Congress. That is so transparent--"our feelings are hurt." This has become a common theme from both parties of Congress but mostly the GOP/TP--we weren't told, we weren't consulted, we weren't whatever yet each time it is proved that the White House did consult, did inform but because they didn't get a chance to vote, their feelings are hurt so they do the "bluster dance".
The problem for the GOP/TP is this. When the only thing it supports must be opposite what the President supports, it becomes incoherent and increasingly irrelevant. It no longer has a coherent message let alone a strategy beyond defeating President Obama at all costs, even when that strategy makes them look as foolish as they sound.
Right on target as usual, Jody. The incoherence comes from the fact that Conservative leaders don't value consistency of thought or principle. Their concern is selling ideas that enrich the wealthy, with draconian attacks on the personal rights and the social safety net as a carrot to keep the Social Conservatives in the fold.
Jody
And McCain's sidekick Lindsey Graham was complaining that the US was not "leading" this effort (even thought it is militarily leading, but without crowing about it). The war hawks want the US to show how macho they are by flaunting international law, like a cop who busts down people's doors without bothering with the tedious process of getting a search warrant. They call that sort of cop a "rogue cop." They call the sort of nation McCain wants us to be a "rogue state."
Obama gave 2 billion (with a B) of us tax payer dollars to government owned, Brazilian oil giant Petrobras for oil exploration. Why would Obama pay a foreign country to do what he prevents BP and others from doing here in the US and benefiting the US? Why would FR not tell you this? Why is Obama in Latin America?
Just days before that $2b commitment, Obama’s buddy George Soros repositioned himself in Petrobras by purchasing 5.8mil in US-traded preferred shares of Petrobras.
Government dependent GE, which owns MSNBC, which controls FR, is not only invested in Petrobras it provides services and equipment for the project funded by the 2bil.
Exxon Mobil is also in full partnership with Petrobras and the projects currently underway. GE has a vested interest in Exxon Mobil as well.
It is believed Exxon Mobil will buy BP at rock bottom price, once BP is weakened by Obama imposed moratoriums, fines and law suits.
Obama’s personal wealth is vested in 2 funds who’s largest stock holdings are in Exxon Mobil. The FSB estimates obama stands to make $85-100 million if this occurs.
Aaah yes, there is nothing like a beautiful, corporatist pig, vacation in sunny, oil rich, Brazil on the US tax payer dime all in the best interest of America.
Here's what Obama had to say about the his energy policy to the Brazilians:
Now, with a seven-year offshore drilling ban in effect off of both coasts, on Alaska's continental shelf and in much of the Gulf of Mexico — and a de facto moratorium covering the rest — Obama tells the Brazilians:
"We want to help you with the technology and support to develop these oil reserves safely. And when you're ready to start selling, we want to be one of your best customers."
Source: http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/566719/201103211908/Obama-Drill-Brazil-Drill.htm
You don't even know where to begin with Obama. He seems to do things based on what direction the wind is blowing. Just as Obama was a "No" vote for invading Libya, his tune changed to a emphatic "Yes" in what seemed like seconds. Now he's out of the country trying to conduct a war, and at the same giving billions to other countries so they can profit from their oil, while jobs are lost here at home because Obama will not drill.
You wonder just whose side Obama is on.
Paul,
Beck's conspiracy theory hinges on false claim that Obama issued loan to Petrobras
Beck: "Petrobras is drilling at 2,777 meters. Obama knows it and loans $2 billion to Petrobras." Beck's entire conspiracy theory relies on the completely discredited falsehood that the Obama administration loaned $2 billion to Petrobras. Beck claimed that "the administration" was "making a $2 billion preliminary commitment for Petrobras, for Petrobras, for exploration," and claimed "Petrobras is drilling at 2,777 meters. Obama knows it and loans $2 billion to Petrobras."
http://mediamatters.org/research/201006210060
Your understanding of the word "invasion" is underwhelming. Creating a international alliance involving middle eastern countries has been done in unbelievable speed. (Involving congress for what is not a war would have added another complex player.) The lack of credit given says more about the opposition than about our president. Does the GOP want to protect Cad-iffy? Did congress act when Kitten-daffy was bombed by HW? Why the flap now?
Paul, you're holding yourself up to liesl...as usual.
This claim stems from a "preliminary committment" made back on April 14 by the board of directors of the Export-Import Bank of the United States. The bank intends to loan up to $2 billion to finance exports to the Brazilian oil company Petróleo Brasileiro S.A., known as Petrobras, over the next several years.
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/09/bogus-brazilian-oil-claims/
By now you should know better than to try to circulate lies that even snopes.com has debunked.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/braziloil.asp
For that matter you should know better by now than to quote ANYTHING that originated with Glenn Beck.
John B:
They never let the facts get in the way of their constant misinformation on this board. They like to repeat lies, and repeat them often hoping somebody will sooner or later believe them. This is right out of Karl Rove and every time they do this it makes him proud. There's somebody to look up to. NOT
Dennis and John B -
Good job. I would only add to John's last statement that for that matter, you should also know better by now to be highly skeptical of anything you read in a chain letter e-mail.
If BECK said it, it is TRUE enough for me,...
Paul Mirror of Lies,...
 Good Morning
CA Tom:
Morning. Have not seen you in awhile, hope all is well with ya.
How does this idiot spell his name anyway? Is it Khaddafy, Gadhafi, or Gaddafi? Seems that should be first thing WE figure out and then go from there.
As someone who is spelling challenged, I kind of like that it looks right no matter how I write it! I think we can all agree he's whacko, no matter how you spell it.
I've seen so many spellings of Gadhafi it makes you wonder if anyone knows. I suggested last week, the media get together and pick one. But the good thing is no matter how each of us spells it, we're never wrong!
I always thought it should be spelled "Ka Daffy Duck".
Crap by any other name is still crap. We know who and what his is.
The name is Arabic, so our spelling is an approximation of the pronunciation
LOL @ Kate ... Seriously?!?!??!? ... I DON'T care if it is Arabic or Pig Latin, oh wait ... those ARE the same languages. WE speak English. Convert the STUPID name and spell it that way. Now lets get back to bombing Libya.
The decision has been made to conduct a no fly zone in Libya for humanitarian reasons. I would have rathered we not gotten involved. In my opinion it is highly likely that this civil war can easily spiral out of control, which will force further escalation on our part. In addition, we do not know who or what these rebels are about and what they are fighting to create. Keep in mind the UN resolution is only to protect civilians not participants in a rebellion. Scope creep and or nation building whether intended or not could easily occur. Once committed like this and we see things go bad for civilians or the rebels what is our next course of action? I am totally against it and feel that we have many greater problems that we as a country should be talking about and dealing with. Perhaps I am contributing detrimentally to our real problems by continuing to discuss Libya here.
However, now that actions have begun, I will support the military troops that are in harms way. As with the wars in Iraq and Afganistan, I don’t fault them for doing their job. Despite whatever misguided policies or best of intentions the commander and chief at the moment may have, they and not him will bear the brunt of the hardship. Lamentably, I heard that a US plane was downed over Libya. I am happy to see that the pilots are ok.
In my experiences watching Desert storm as an undergrad, and the Iraq war “Shock and Awe” campaign I've seen some people glued to their screens watching the tracer fire and perhaps getting I don’t know excited like it is a video game. The military and the media tries to glamorize it with catchy names like, Desert Storm, Shock and Awe, Operation Enduring Odyssey etc. In the end it is War, ugly and brutal, destructive and for some both friend and foe, participant and innocent - fatal.
I have never served in any military service and I don’t mean to trivialize any current or past war or veteran, but we need to learn as a nation that this is not a trivial water cooler discussion. As we think and talk/post about this subject let’s give it the respect it deserves and not use it as a catalyst to pull one liners or score points, From reading the posts about this subject the other day, I only wish all parties would leave politics out of it. Is that too much to ask? Some on the left and right will support this policy some will not. Can we agree that we will all support those enforcing it?
Very well said.
War is ugly and should be used as a last resort.
Now that the decision has been made we must support our troops and pray that this is short, they accompolish their mission and they all come home safe and in one piece.
Iraq was under constant hostile fly-overs and removal of anti-aircraft installations. It was all done under UN mandate with no declaration of war. Same Same here.
Yellow-Dog Mark: I thought you might want to see this from HuffingtonPost:
Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi must step down after "murdering his own people" with military attacks against opponents, retired U.S. Gen. Colin Powell said Tuesday.
"I hope that Col. Gadhafi will soon come to the realization that murdering his own people is not a solution and that it is time for him to step aside," said Powell, who was senior military assistant to Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger during U.S. airstrikes on Libya in 1986.
Powell later served in many roles that involved assessing Gadhafi's regime, including as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Secretary of State.
He said the new governments on either side of Libya – Tunisia and Egypt – could serve as models for the region on bringing about democratic change, "if it is done properly."
"The most powerful force at work today in the world is economic development and creation of wealth," said Powell, speaking at a regional security conference. "It is economic development and wealth creation that will lift people out of poverty, provide an education to young people, and create jobs for people."
Powell predicted only governments "wise enough to reform themselves" can easily ride out the wave of change in the Arab world, but he gave no specific examples.
Pat - Hello my friend.
Collen Powell is certainly a dignified, intelligent man that I respect. I think he showed a lot of character by bowing out of the Bush Admin. He very well could have been the front runner in 2008 if he had chosen to run.
It would be great if Kaddafi were gone I don't support any leader tha,t is killing civilians much less his own people. Now that this is ongoing we will see what happens. However it is important to know that things don't happen in a vacuum. Sometimes when a bad leader is ousted a worse one arises. As general Powell is attributed to the Powell doctrine, (paraphrasing here). Strike with overwhelming force with clear and outlined objectives in mind. This situation in Libya clearly doesn't apply to his doctrine.
Who would have expected this pardigm shift and change in the region. If not already the administration needs to quickly (behind the scenes) move with a consistent policy regarding other US supported allies in the region.
The Bama is between a rock and a hardplace. He can't touch 'Daffy because they are all brothers, he, 'Daffy and Farry. No wonder Farry came out on TV and was damn angry that the Bama is trying to overthrow his brother "Daffy. Sound like The Three Stooges! He really blasted the Bama.
We can always rely on FR's own Bahgdad Bob for some comic relief. Tell us some more Birther stories, those were especially hilarious.
juven, when you can't call anyone by their correct name, it makes your narrative hard to follow and easy to ignore.
More GOP attempts to leverage anything to pry the best President we have had since Kennedy our of office. Obama (and Hilary) were able to get Arab support for a mission that would have been unthinkable just two years ago. The brilliant Cairo speech laid the foundation for USA's return to respectability in Middle Eastern affairs. The president must be able to act in support of UN resolutions in circumstances that are less than war. If the congress wanted to act, then they should have done so before the valiant revolutionaries of Bengazi were overrun. The history will be obvious that Obama's limited intervention has saved the Arab democratic revolution in Lybia and sent an arrow into the heart of one of the worlds lead terrorists. Death to tyrants.
The constant criticism of the President from all sides compels me to make these comments. In 2008 I was proud to cast my vote to elect President Obama. While I respected Senator McCain for his many years of service to our country in the military and in government, I felt that then-Senator Obama was the right person to lead us out of the dire circumstances we were in. I have never regretted that vote. That is not to say that I have agreed with everything the administration has done---there are too many big issues facing us to have consensus on everything. As JoAnne said, I'm not sure how I feel about the Libyan situation. But I do know that Congress---regardless of which party is controlling it---is not the answer---they aren't leading and they aren't solving problems. So I am confident that President Obama will do the best he can to address the challenges ahead of us and I give him my full support.
I like Senator Webb, and I'm proud that, as a Democrat, he is speaking up for the rule of law and constitutionality. I'm glad Dennis Hucinich is applying his principles consistently, if it was wrong for Bush to do it, it's wrong for Obama. I just don't think the circumstances between setting up a no-fly in Libya and invading Iraq with ground troops is the same thing.
I also understand the President's position, and I just hope and pray Gaddafy's aides get the message, no matter how you dice it, the international community wants him gone, and remove him before more innocent people lose their lives and their country is destoyed.
Steeler_Fan: I'm 100% with you. I am proud to have voted for Barack Obama. Very very proud. He really is of a different generation and it shows.
He has taken people out of their comfort zone. And it's about time someone did it.
Well said, Steeler Fan. I trust President Obama to have made the best choice possible given the circumstances. Congress couldn't lead a parade right now they're so ideologically driven.
Pat, that line about the President taking people out of their comfort zone is so true. Even the media has yet to understand him let alone keep up with him.
....
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I don't want to hear anymore blather about this country being broke. If we can afford to bomb half the planet we can damn well afford to pay the Medicare and Social Security people have coming, if not we'll have our own violent "regime" change right here, I guarantee it.
FR:
Nobody seemed to care that a REAL war was started in Iraq without a declaration of war. Why would one be needed in a military operation that clearly is NOT a war? You know, tanks, ground troops, house-to-house combat, etc. The media didn't complain much about that. The military operation against Serbia in the '90s, whose stated purpose was humanitarian in nature, was very similar to Libya, and I've read that there was no congressional resolution for Serbia, either.
I think some of the concerns about presidential war powers are legitimate, but I find it odd that the media seems to focus a lot more on that issue with Obama than it did with either Clinton or Bush. Why the double standard?
Last night Rachel Maddow view of President Obama not doing the traditional chest-pounding Very Important Speech from the Oval Office was similar to mine. Given the Arab nations' hostility toward a century of US meddling in their affairs, it was a smart move to give the US a lower profile in this operation, and to wait for the Arab League's request and the UN resolution.
Maddow also observed that Obama's reluctance was real and showed he was no warmonger, unlike Bush, who only pretended to have an aversion to war. The corporate media talkers have also commented on Obama's reluctance, but as if it was a BAD thing. The media seem to be against this military operation, but at the same time they are pro warmongering, as long as it's not this president doing the warmongering.
The corporate media are also virtually ignoring Obama's surprising diplomatic success at getting the Russians and Chinese to abstain from vetoing the UN resolution. In one of my infrequent forays into CNN's John King program, all of his guests were bashing Obama, as usual. This time they were all attacking Obama for "turning on a dime" from being against military intervention to being for it. None of these idiots seemed to understand that Obama's Secretary of State and his UN ambassador must have been quietly negotiating with the Russians and Chinese for weeks before the UN vote. There was no sudden reversal of policy. What there was was an imminent massacre of civilians in Benghazi that the Obama administration saw was going to happen for weeks in advance, and he and our French and British allies succeeded in averting it.
Rachel Maddow, now there is un-bias reporting. Difficult to get left of her. You can label Obama's action as you wish. The fact is we are involving ourselves in an internal conflict in Libya. This may or may not prove to be a good move. You can support this or not. There have been massacres and there are what looks to be the possibility of more of the same all over the middle east. Obama didn't see the need to interfere except for Libya. If we truly involved ourselves for humanitarian reasons in Libya as Obama has indicated over and over, will we interfere for humanitarian reasons else where?
Houston: I saw Rachel last night. She gets what President Obama is doing. He is no warmonger.
I wish we would see a change in media. I really do. We've been listening to these fools for too damn long. President Obama is doing things his way. And the media doesn't get it. They are confused.
They want us here in America to lead the world in crushing Gaddafi and his supporters. President Obama is not going to do it. Thank goodness.
It appears that Yemen's President days are numbered. Just one more circumstance of changing happening within.
Tony C numbers:
That's what's known as an ad hominem attack. It's a logical fallacy that avoids having to invalid her observations. (BTW: An ad hominem attack is not just saying something mean that hurts somebody's fee fees, as certain people seem to believe).
In other words: "We can't do anything until we can do everything." I simply disagree. T here are certainly lots of crazy dictators like places like North Korea, Burma, and other Arab countries. It would be great if they could all be removed from power, but the political situations, which differ greatly from one country to another, don't allow it.
If Obama hadn't gotten the UN resolution and the Arab League support, he would not have approved the Libyan intervention and would have stood by and watched a massacre in Benghazi rather than violate international law. Fortunately, his diplomatic efforts succeeded so he didn't have to take that course.
Thank you, Houston, well done. Rachel's observations were on target and concurred with my own.
It's beyond me how the critics can claim the President is "dithering" while "turning on a dime" to stop further blood shed. It's beyond me how the media has said almost nothing about President Obama and SoS Clinton's achievement in getting Russia and China to abstain, and three other countries. What troubles me about cable news is too often on shows like King's, they no longer report the facts but instead create controversy. President Obama is so far ahead of the critics, and too many in the media that they're left in the dust wondering what just went by.
It is a fair question. You can make a case to interfere in many nations in that region for humanitarian reasons. It is not a question of not doing anything vs doing everything. That is a dumb conclusion on your part. By the way, you can't get much left of Rachel Maddow when it comes to political views. She is a declared socialist.
People keep claiming that Tony, but no one ever puts up the proof. How 'bout you give it a shot?
It has been an interesting deployment and definition of "no fly zone". Interesting that we didn't take the lead. Lets see, France goes to the podium first, that equals taking the lead. We have US Navy ships, command and control and fire 140 missiles at a cost of 75 million dollars, but we didn't take the lead. Don't want to look too "Bush" like. We take out Libyan troops with fire power. No fly zone? The goal of the mission is to protect civilians. The US policy according to Obama is to see Khaddafy out of power. Confused? If Khaddafy is not defeated, then what? How about Yemem? I guess those civilians don't need to be protected. Can't prove it one way or the other, but there probably are Navy Seals on the ground in Libya.
Wrong. Don't want to look ANYTHING like that idiot starting a war under false pretenses and turning an entire country into a living hell.
Once again, you have nothing to add to a conversation. You just show your stupidity and rant on. As I mentioned before, you need to stop drinking that ship channel water, as it is making you even more crazy, if that is possible.
Tony C
Yet another ad hominem attack made to avoid acknowledging the glaring differences between Bush's Iraq debacle and the Libyan operation. You're frequent use of ad hominem attacks in replace of actual argument leads me to conclude that you are a weak-minded idiot. (Note that the statement that you are an idiot is NOT an ad hominem attack because it is a conclusion that follows from the facts of your inability to make an argument, not a comment made to avoid an argument as you did).
You really are funny. Stupid, but funny.
Can you imagine the howls of protest if Khadaffi was allowed to massacre more of his own people? But, he will probably be gone soon and the righties will create new outrage such as to complain "He was a pretty nice guy", "He was good friend to the U.S. and a positive influence for Africa and the world" or maybe they will say he was a "Snappy" dresser and that we will miss him.
Absolutely correct, Tom, Yreka--the howls would have been ear-piercing. Doesn't matter what President Obama does or says, the right will find fault.
Jody:
So will the so-called "mainstream" media. If you can stand it, watch CNN's John King show for a few minutes. They give all sides and opportunity to bash Obama. I once saw Amy Goodman on his show. She's pretty far to the left of Obama, so they had her on to attack Obama from the left and wingnut Eric Erickson to attack him from the right. When Amy went off the reservation and started criticizing Republicans, too, King just ignored her and tried to get her back to the topic at hand, which is ALWAYS Obama bashing.
Obama and the US Logic of bombing to save lives is confusing - WHICH, "innocent" Libyans lives are we BOMBING in trying to stop the lost of life. Those "innocent" Libyans who support Gahdafi, or those "innocent" Libyans who want to over throw Gahdafi?
The US has no announced plan for Libya, no idea what type of Libyan government will emerge, IF, Gahdafi is over thrown, and WHO will the NEW LIBYAN Government support if they do emerge - Will a new Libyan government support fellow Arabs/Muslims (like Iran) or the West?
Libya is way more important to Europe, than the US. Let the European Nations "direct" this conflict. The US has enough on their tax plates already. Anyone taken a reading on how much this "in and out" police engagement is costing already broke US Tax Payers? China and Russia are just loving how DUMB the US is.
LOl, The Bama is holidaying whilst the world is in flames around him. Invasion of Libya, violent changes sweeping the Arab world, Yemen, Saudi, Bahrain etc. Meeting Marxists in South America. The Bama is having a whale of a time. What a dandy President we have. I have never seen anything like it.
This article about the crash of a US jet underscores the radical difference between the Libyan operation and the Bush Iraq misadventure:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42206805/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/
A downed US pilot in Iraq would have been lucky to escape with his life from angry civilians.
First Read classifies McCaskill's plane issue as a "major" problem, but I do not recall this much coverage and discussion of Haley Barbour's plane/travel issues. Your liberal media at work.
Ah, yes, oh that liberal media!
Sadly, President Obama's overall motivation is to weaken and impoverish America. Internationally, though, he takes his marching orders from his benefactors in the oil rich Arabian Peninsula. They want to get rid of the evil monster in Libya, Gadhafi. So President Obama has stuck America with the expense and the risk of removing him.
Hardly worth the effort to reply to this but it seems the GOP did a fine job of impoverishing America by borrowing money for Afghanistan and Iraq, borrowing to give tax breaks to the rich and big business, borrowing money to pay for their Rx Medicare Plan and borrowing money for every piece of legislation they passed from 2001 through 2006. It seems conservatives only feel the need to cry "impoverish" when democrats are in power--otherwise, it's spend the country into debt as fast as possible and not one yelp of protest from the GOP voters, not one demonstration, not one complaint until Jan 20, 2009.
lmao.......sure Jody, you just keep on thinking that. Couple of years from now you wont have much to worry about.