So Feisty, what prevents the union members from giving the money to Obama, or who ever else they wish to support?

Why are you anti-choice?

I would not have much of a problem with this law if it weren't for the Citizen's United decision. I don't want election spending to be controlled by Unions, Corporations, and wealthy individuals. The problem with the post Citizens United world is that the only group that can compete with the interests of corporations and the very wealthy are the Unions.

Feisty:

Lets go to Madison and help collect signatures...Let's see, with a 100,000 protesters and each one signs a petition, maybe they don't need our help.

Maybe we should meet in Indianapolis. We have a dimwit governor, nicknamed "the blade". who can put you to sleep in 3 minutes or less. His term is coming to an end, but there are some legislators who should be recalled.

Charles - the members can still give their money to whatever cause they want. Why do you all seem to automatically be assuming that they will no longer support the same causes the unions did?

Why is the end of automatic deductions (forced/compulsory) mean doom and gloom to everything democratic?

Charles,

Why do you think the Dems need the confiscated dues and money from their members to compete. (BTW - It doesn't bother you that implies the Dems have to confiscate dues against the will of their members to compete?)

Nevertheless, you are wrong. In the 2008 elections:

Dems got 52% of Business money; 61% of Ideological money; 73% of Other.

Add in 93% of Union money.

Dems can't win without stacking the deck more? Pretty sad.

FR: It ends the system for automatically deducting union dues from workers' paychecks and requires the unions to be certified as the workers' representation each year.

Freedom and accountability.

Two things Liberals are against.

Feisty:

Sure sounds more and more like Fascism to me.

Spanky-

So Feisty, what prevents the union members from giving the money to Obama, or who ever else they wish to support?

Why are you anti-choice?

I thought you fell in the Pacific. But, I'm glad you didn't. How else can I prove you silly

Perhaps, you'd rather the communist state the Koch Brothers are trying to pave the way to instead of democracy and free enterprise? It ain't happening the curtain has been pulled back and the filthy Kochs are ubiquitous; and people will take them down.

Unions Gave Us The Weekend

Unions Gave Us Fair Wages And Relative Income Equality

Unions Helped End Child Labor

Unions Won Widespread Employer-Based Health Coverage

Unions Spearheaded The Fight For The Family And Medical Leave Act:

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/03/05/top-five-things-unions

Koch lived up to the slogan: “Work hard enough for Comrade Stalin to thank you!”

Charles Koch’s racket was very simple, explained William. With its extensive oil pipe network, Koch Industries’ role as an oil middleman–it buys crude from someone’s well and sells it to a refinery–makes it easy to steal millions of dollars worth of oil by skimming just a little off the top of each transaction, or what they call “cheating measurements” in the oil trade. According to William, wells located on federal and Native American lands were the prime targets of the Koch scam.

http://exiledonline.com/a-peoples-history-of-koch-industries-how-stalin-funded-the-tea-party-movement/

That is the Koch scam. yeah it's true!!

For the love of Money people will steal. Money will make you do crazy things.

Feisty,

100,000 protesting about the Repubs allowing the teachers the free choice to do what they want with their money?

No more automatic confiscation of their dues to the political machine?

And you guys call the Repubs Nazis?

No more automatic confiscation of their to the political machine?

The inhuman cry from the Liberals on this one is deafening. A major source of the funding for their precious Democrats is starting to disappear. The Libs are scared, and they are lashing out.

Teachers do NOT have to join the union. I work with a few teachers who chose to belong only to the local education association.

I like being a union member and having my dues taken automatically from my pay check. This helps me!

And speaking to other teachers, if automatic union due payments are not automatically taken, we will find someway of getting those dues.

I know exactly why the right wants no automatic due payments. They think it will stop money from going to the union. Teachers will NEVER allow this to happen. We will find some other way of getting the money to the unions.

Sure sounds more and more like Fascism to me.

Yup. Freedom + Choice + Accountability = Fascism

What rock to you live under?

All this rhetoric about 'free choice' and 'automatic consifcation' is only playing to the ones who are easily fooled!

The true strategy is right up top in black & white!

At least 100 thousand people are willing to make sure the message gets delivered!

Remember, in the end, winners NEVER cheat and cheaters NEVER win!

It is the people who will ultimately win over the Citizens United ruling and all the BIG money anonymous donors who look to game the system!

Hey Navy - know what sound like fascism to me? Automatic deductions from your paychecks.

But ok Navy please tell me how allowing a union to take automatic deductions is in the individual worker's best interest.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

Feisty - do "winners" need automatic deductions? I'd have to say that the lack of freedom and choice is the opposite of "winning."

Chandler - why does it help you? Are you incapable of making the payment yourself?

Ah, bob -- my favorite liar returns with more of the same old, tired lies. Not to mention JoAnna and Spanky, too.

Read Chandler W.'s post. He is exactly true correct. The rest of you lie, and to answer bob's last question, yes, if only for continuing to lie after your lies have been exposed.

Your lies are really starting to disgust me.

And, hey, bobby, how about those farmers marching with the public workers?

Greedy farmers, too? Who knew? Like the guy who works 90 to 100 hours a week, with a wife who works at Walmart, and they still qualify for Medicaid. And now Governor Walker righteously wants to take THEIR safety net away, too.

Your spew is getting really old, you guys. And for all that, it comes no closer to truth than it ever did.

........................................................

Now, then, here's an interesting article I just found on CNN --

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/03/14/oracles-catz-says-businesses-need-1-trillion-tax-holiday/

Seems that large corporations making profits overseas are seeking a "tax holiday" so they can repatriate their profits at vastly reduced tax rates. The argument is, of course, that bringing all this money back to redistribute to shareholders will somehow "create jobs."

Yeah, like it did the last time it was tried:

As Fortune noted last month, much of the money from the last major repatriation in 2004 was doled out to shareholders, and not, as planned, directed mainly at research and development or new hiring.

Of course, putting money into the hands of shareholders can be stimulative, too, but the repatriation shouldn't be thought of as $1 trillion spewing into the economy as if from a firehose.

According to a 2009 study by the Congressional Research Service, of the top 12 repatriating companies in 2004, 10 cut jobs between that time and the beginning of the recession in 2008. Hewlett-Packard (HPQ), for example, repatriated $14.5 billion, only to then lay off 14,500 workers.

People use deductions from payroll for a lot of things -- for contributions to United Way, for alimony payments, for health savings accounts, for loan repayments, for union dues. People find it easier to do it that way than to remember to write a check out. People use the same system now for paying all kinds of bills, but they do it through debits set up with companies. (The company "automatically" takes out mortgage payments, credit card payments, utility payments from the bank account). I would imagine that in this day and age, the unions will simply use a system like that for dues. The payroll deduction system dates to a time when one couldn't set up these other systems -- and it was easier to have dues taken out a bit at a time rather than in one larger yearly chunk. One is not forced to join a union. But one does have to pay a proportional amount for representation if the union is the sole, agreed-upon bargaining agent. Otherwise an individual would have to seek out legal representation on his or her own if they felt there was a contract or work violation, or if someone lodged a complaint against the employee.

I think you guys missed my point. The real problem is the Citizen United decision. People and Corporations should not be able to spend limitlessly on political speech. If they can then it is a certainly that the message of the poorer will be drowned out by the message of the richer. That system will perpetuate itself as the rich get their candidates elected and their interests met. They will get richer and the poor will get poorer. That is why most democratic societies have limits on campaign spending.

Kate,,

they can still choose to have the Money Directly Taken from there Accounts by the Unions. If they so Choose.

but if they dont want to have that money taken out they dont have too. thats a pretty fair choice to me. and think of all the Money it will save teh State by not have to have Accountants Take it then send it off to the Unions. Their Time can now be spent on other things..

For 30 years repubicans have been systematically chipping away at workers' rights, and in the process chipping away at middle American incomes--all under the disguise of unions are bad, really bad for the country while the GOP created legislation that shipped jobs overseas and convinced voters it was the fault of the unions. Need proof, just look at the decline in union membership and then the decline of wages--the graphs are nearly identical.

Governor Walker and many fellow republicans, under the mistaken idea that no one would notice, decided to put the final nail in the coffin of workers. Many GOPTPers said there would only be a few days of fuss and outrage and that would be that. Well, here we are nearly a month later.

What Walker has done is ignite the populist anger that has been simmering since Wall Street collapsed the economy, took the taxpayer loans and gave it to millionaires in the form of multi-million dollar bonuses and thumbed their collective notices at middle class America. This will not go away. Walker may think he won the battle but he and his fellow hustlers will lose the war.

The middle class is speaking and they are saying: Enough, we have sacrificed but the rich have not; we have been used and abused for decades and "we're mad as h*** and we're not going to take it any more". You only need to look at the size of the protests across this country in WI, OH, NJ, MI, IA, IN, CA to name a few, to realize that the sleeping giant is awake.

Steve:

they can still choose to have the Money Directly Taken from there Accounts by the Unions. If they so Choose.

You know, Steve, that's actually a pretty good idea. Like automatic bill pay. Thanks for suggesting it. I'll pass it along to some of my friends.

And I'm quite confident that now in particular, union members will be happy to sign up.

Be careful what you wish for, Stevie.

If the teachers so choose and don't want to forget they can arrange for automatic payment of union dues with their banks. I mean you can do it for your car, house, credit cards, Kids gymnastics lessons, and the list goes on. Good for all your friends Anna.

Also these teachers that have more education than their private sector equals, but are paid less, can always come on over to the private sector and take the jobs that require them to work. Last time I checked the governors were not holding guns to the teachers heads and telling them they had to do the job. They can quit anytime they want and go out and take the jobs from all us private sector workers with lower education levels.

Union members chose to have dues deducted when they joined the union. They were not forced into joining the union.

Chandler,

We will find some other way of getting the money to the unions.

It is called a stamp. All you have to do is write a check and drop it in the mail to the unions.

What is the big deal?

So are the 100,000 now protesting over teachers having to buy a few stamps?

Anna Molloy,

Sorry I have rebutted your posts, refuted your comments and made you look moronic. I didn't think it was too rough, I have been a lot rougher on others, but obviously you don't handle it too well.

You seemed to be cracking up a bit, so I have laid off responding to you.

However, about lies. I am certainly unaware of any lie, any deliberate misrepresentation of a known fact in an effort to deceive that I have made. If I have please post it.

Otherwise, you may want to take some time off. Or better yet, quit arguing the stupid. It is alot easier arguing common sense and reality. Sheez ......

Anna Molly,

So your saying that Unions were not Smart enough to do it themselves? and you needed a Conservative to actually provide you an Answer to your Problem? In any Event People are still going to get a Choice as to Whether they wish to belong to a Union. My guess is that Unions will now See a considerable decrease in Dues collected in the State of Wisconsin..............

Newsflash for Spanky who said:" what prevents the union members from giving the money to Obama, or who ever else they wish to support?"

There were many Republican teacher union members in WI. The key word here is "were." After they way the teachers were degraded as being overpaid, lazy public employees by the governor and the Republicans; the majority will now do what you suggest and give to anyone but the Republicans.

Sorry I have rebutted your posts, refuted your comments and made you look moronic. I didn't think it was too rough, I have been a lot rougher on others, but obviously you don't handle it too well.

You seemed to be cracking up a bit, so I have laid off responding to you.

However, about lies. I am certainly unaware of any lie, any deliberate misrepresentation of a known fact in an effort to deceive that I have made. If I have please post it.

bob -- Too easy, bobby. The post I responded to ON THIS THREAD was nothing but a repeat of the same tired old lies about how unions "confiscate" workers' money. I have rebutted it several times, as has Pietro, Chandler W., and others out here, and you continue to misrepresent it. I'll say it once more: Dues deduction is voluntary; it is NOT confiscation. It is done for the convenience of union members. Employees don't have to pay dues, and they don't have to have them deducted. Public workers don't make a lot of money, and writing a check for a large amount of dues is sometimes hard. THIS IS A NEGOTIATED ITEM. It is not something that is "imposed" by unions on its members. UNIONS HAVE TO VOTE TO RATIFY CONTRACTS.

Now, if you continue to repeat the same old thing about "confiscation" after this, then there will be no question that you are deliberately misrepresenting facts. In other words, that you are lying.

As for me, you don't even begin to rebut my posts; you just continue to spout your talking points. And whenever too many facts are presented to you and the heat gets too high for you, you retreat and begin again on another thread. But don't feel bad. That's just like a LOT of republicans I've met out here. It's just like my favorite (not) republican coward/bully Glenn Grothman, as a matter of fact. I know him well, bob, and you remind me a LOT of Glenn.

And attacking me personally and then accusing me of "cracking up" doesn't change YOU from a liar to a truthteller, bobby.

Steve:

So your saying that Unions were not Smart enough to do it themselves?

Sigh. And just when I thought you might be getting with the program. The answer is no. In case you didn't know, dues deduction has been in place for quite a few years, even before electronic banking. There would have been no way to do this in the old days, but you've just provided the perfect solution.

For local unions too small to do it themselves, it could be done by the larger parent unions, putting dues money directly into the parent union's hands, with local dues redistributed back to the local union.

In short, far from accomplishing Scott Walker's purpose, this would do just the opposite AND remove for once and for all the false argument about how it's taxpayer money going to fund the unions.

And again, thanks for thinking of it, Stevie. Sweet.

Clem,

or they will Choose not to belong to a Union and still support the Republicans without having to give there Money to the Union that will choose how Their money is spent.

So are the 100,000 now protesting over teachers having to buy a few stamps?

And this just goes to the overall level of your argument, bobby. But I suspect we won't see you again on this thread.

Anna, that is just plan stupid. The Unions at anytime could have VOTED in their Contract Negotians to give people a Choice of having the Money Taken out by the State or doing the Direct Deposit.. is not like Direct Deposit hasn't been around for 25 years. are you saying that there were not new Contracts for that long?

You see the point is Now people will have a Real Choice If they so choose to belong to a Union they can Choose to have that Money taken out of their Bank Accounts. If they dont want belong to a Union they dont have too..

But thanks for the Props. You at least Admit that UNIONS were not smart Enough to think about it till i suggested it.

Let's just get rid of the Chamber of Commerce and put the playing field even. We do not need the Chamber of Commerce for anything. Eliminate them.

or they will Choose not to belong to a Union and still support the Republicans without having to give there Money to the Union that will choose how Their money is spent.

I think not. The dues are just a small fraction of what Walker just took away from them, and God only knows how much more pain is to come with the additional cuts to education he is proposing. I'll bet that even republican public workers would rather have back the ten percent of income they are losing and would cheerfully pay the union dues.

By the way, local unions make their own decisions on how to spend that portion of dues that they collect. Members vote on those things. Parent unions are governed by designated representatives of local unions, and in that way, members of the local unions also govern how the parent unions spend the money. The head of the principal teachers' union in Wisconsin is a teacher/librarian who still works in that capacity. She is not in any way a "boss," and she is answerable at any time to the membership.

Just so you know.

But thanks for the Props. You at least Admit that UNIONS were not smart Enough to think about it till i suggested it.

I admit that you're pretty smart, if that's what you're looking for, but there are also some mighty smart people at the heads of the local teachers' union and the state teachers' union. I suspect they've already thought of it, but I also passed it along through the channels I have, just in case.

And thanks again.

Anna,

So tell me how may people do you think will OPT out of the Unions ? do you think it will be alot?

Hi JoAnna,

The liberal lashing out is out of fear! If you are not making over $100,000 annually, you should be scared too! Are you not seeing the complete story or motivation behind the GOP maneuvering. Historically middle class pay is in step with union membership, why? If unions back Democrats and Democrats back middle and low class citizens, why would they be upset? Would it upset you if Corporations and Banking were forced to pay less to GOP campaign funding (by laws made by a Democratic majority)?

I am not Democratic or Republican, but you do not need to be, if you are objective enough to see that the GOP is tipping the political landscape in their favor. They historically side with big business and banking, this is not something new. The Wisconsin Governor gives big business a multimillion dollar tax break then blames the middle class union members for being greedy. Why? If he did not give the tax breaks and still went after all union members such as police and firefighters instead of just the ones that didn't vote for him, I would be inclined to say that he was actually trying to help the state financial crises and not bowing to the high class billionaires and paying his debt to the union members that did vote for him.

If the majority of poller's believe that attacking collective bargaining is wrong, then why do it? Aren't governors and such suppose to do the will of the people?

I am saddened by the fact that our political leaders and we as a nation have lost the fact that The United States Government is a" government of the people, by the people, for the people" This government was never meant to be about protecting those who give you money, about financial treason by sending our jobs elsewhere, about taxpayers bailing out an industry whose utter greed led them to their downfall yet they continue to pay bonuses on the average of $194000.

So let's continue to fight between union vs. non-union, neighbor against neighbor, because this is what they want, divide and conquer. While we quibble over a few hundred dollars a year, the top 400 multi-billionaires in the United States make more than 55 percent of the whole United States population.

So: Freedom + Choice + Accountability+$$$ = ?

Steve-yes, even if I choose to not remain in the union, I, my family, my friends and associates will give our money and support the Republicans even though they called me lazy,overpaid and have been proven to be bought and paid for by big money; right!

So tell me how may people do you think will OPT out of the Unions ? do you think it will be alot?

Some will, but probably fewer than did BEFORE this erupted. As Clem said, and with accuracy, there USED TO BE a fair number of republican members of public unions. I knew many when I was teaching, but I suspect that number is a lot smaller now.

As someone wise mentioned recently, if you keep hitting your "friends" over the head with an axe, eventually they fall down. Republicans always seem so surprised when their fellow republicans betray them. And they also seem surprised when their friends fall down. What I don't get is why.

It's perfectly obvious to the rest of us.

@ Miker -- BRAVO. Standing ovation. Seriously. Brilliant.

Anna,

Anna,

You provided absolutely no proof, no support for anything you said.

Not very good at this are you.

Anna Molly,

I think you are Wrong My guess is there is going to be a major Exodus of Union Members, People would rather have that 1000 dollars to spend as they wish then have to give it to a Union just to have a Job.

Unions know that giving people an actual Choice as to whether or not to belong to them is the fight that is going on here, that is why there are so many Angry people here.

Bob:

Not very good at this are you.

I bow to your greatness, bob. That's obviously what you need.

Steve:

Unions know that giving people an actual Choice as to whether or not to belong to them is the fight that is going on here, that is why there are so many Angry people here.

I beg to differ, Steve. People are angry because they have had their bargaining rights stripped and ten percent of their income summarily confiscated by the Wisconsin legislature.

That's the REAL confiscation in this whole deal, Steve, beside which your paltry union dues argument is VERY small potatoes.

But it makes a very good shiny object for people to fixate on while the confiscation occurs.

bob, I can understand, but I didn't think YOU were that gullible.

Hey AM - you accused me of lying. Ok, please set forth what lie I told.

It's ok if you can't - you have had a rough patch around here of late. No mystery that the republican legislatures are making things hard on your unions friends. But hey maybe we will indeed see a huge resurgence of union membership. You think it'll ever get above 10 -15%?

But look on the bright side - you and I are not in a union and nobody is automatically taking money out of our earnings. Could you just imagine? That would suck.

Anna,

Keep dreaming . You know exactly what this is about You are a smart person and you know as well as I do and most others that if people have the OPTION to not join a Union many will OPT out. They will choose to keep that 1000 dollars. This is what Unions are worried about if you can't CONTROL the masses you have No power.

Those that Choose to Stay in the Union can. Those that dont want to belong to a Union have a Choice..

Those that Choose to Stay in the Union can. Those that dont want to belong to a Union have a Choice..

Yes, and Scott Walker just made it for them. In reality, Steve, all anyone has to do to get out of paying union dues is vote to de-certify and refuse to ratify the contract that the union negotiates. Poof. No more union.

And really, who in their right mind would want to represent such selfish people, anyway, who just like most republicans know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Let 'em twist in the wind.

@ Spanky - The federal and state governments automatically take money out of my paycheck every two weeks or so. Since I don't like what Scott Walker is doing, and I don't like all this talk about cutting Social Security and Medicare, and NPR, and I sure as heck am not in favor of continuing defense spending at current levels, I think I should be able to opt out of paying, don't you? But if the road buckles or I need firefighters, dang, they'd better be there for me. What? Not fair? Why not? That's what that guy whose house burned down in Tennessee said. And that's what you're saying unions should do, whether you realize you're saying it or not.

I've been a Union member for 22 years. Three years ago I contracted cancer and had to got through a lot to beat it which I am still doing. The entire time I was off work my Union reps paid my dues,and never once expect me to repay them. Now I know someones going to misrepresent what I said because it seems to me that allot of that been going on here. My point being Unions are not money guzzling mongers that they're made out to be. They actually gave a damn about one of their own. Out of about 300,000 in Medical bills I paid about 500 out of my own pocket. Now if I where employed by a non Union outfit I wonder what I would of paid? By the way 1000 in union dues come on man!

You are Exactly Correct Anna..

Scott Walker gave those people a Choice.

in your Senario. if you want the Job . you have to join the Union and pay the Dues, In my Senario . if i want the Job. I get the choice to join the Union and whether or not i want to pay the Dues. . I like my choice better.

Is it me or is everybody blind in Wisconsin, what does curbing the Union dues have to do with Budget woes in your state. Dang, makes ya think don't it!

If you don't want to belong to a union, as a teacher, you inform the business office of this and the money is not deducted.

It is a very simple concept.

Spanky--union dues deduction, called "check-off", is not new and assures fair play for all employees. All receive the benefits and all pay to support the system that works for their benefit. Want to join a union and freeload on your fellow workers by not paying dues? Many have done so and perhaps they will wake up and join the party. Historically, Right-to-work laws usually end up meaning "the right to work for less." This is usually wrapped in the Flag of Liberty as you have done. You should read a bit about the union movement from an objective history. Those who do not learn the lessons of history WILL be doomed to repeat it.

That's simple, because having your dues automatically deducted means you don't have to write a check and buy a stamp! By Spanky's logic, why in the world would anyone have their health insurance automatically deducted from their paychecks, or their contributions to the United Way? People do it by choice because it saves time.

Sure, you don't have to support the unions. But if you don't, you'll get a similar letter like business owner Mr. Ellis received directed at you. This one from a police representative no less.

March 10, 2011
Mr. Tom Ellis, President
Marshall & Ilsley Corporation
770 N. Water Street
Milwaukee, WI 53202
SENT VIA FASCIMILE AND REGULAR MAIL
Dear Mr. Ellis:
As you undoubtedly know, Governor Walker recently proposed a “budget
adjustment bill” to eviscerate public employees’ right to collectively bargain in
Wisconsin. ..

As you also know, Scott Walker did not campaign on this issue when he ran for
office. If he had, we are confident that you would not be listed among his largest
contributors. As such, we are contacting you now to request your support.

The undersigned groups would like your company to publicly oppose Governor
Walker’s efforts to virtually eliminate collective bargaining for public employees in
Wisconsin. While we appreciate that you may need some time to consider this
request, we ask for your response by March 17. In the event that you do not
respond to this request by that date, we will assume that you stand with
Governor Walker and against the teachers, nurses, police officers, fire fighters,
and other dedicated public employees who serve our communities.


In the event that you cannot support this effort to save collective bargaining,
please be advised that the undersigned will publicly and formally boycott the
goods and services provided by your company. However, if you join us, we will
do everything in our power to publicly celebrate your partnership in the fight to
preserve the right of public employees to be heard at the bargaining table.
Wisconsin’s public employee unions serve to protect and promote equality and
fairness in the workplace. We hope you will stand with us and publicly share that
ideal.

In the event you would like to discuss this matter further, please contact the
executive Director of the Wisconsin Professional Police Association, Jim Palmer,
at 608.273.3840.

Thank you in advance for your consideration. We look forward to hearing from
you soon.

Source: http://www.thewheelerreport.com/releases/March11/0310/0310wppa.pdf

That Joanna is just a stick up. That letter came from public employee unions? Isn't the boss of the public employees supposed to be the public?

Opajack - and if you do not wish to be a part of the union? If being in a union is such a good thing how come so few workers are? Might there be a downside or two?

Sounds like a reasonable response to me, poor JS1, or are you against people having CHOICE about those they choose to do business with? Hmmm?

Thank you for bringing up Scott Wheeler JoAnna - here's a brief biography on Scotty's legitimacy:

End-Game Sleaze

The National Republican Trust PAC came into being Sept. 26, when it first registered with the Federal Election Commission. By Oct. 15 it had reported raising $463,000 for its anti-Obama campaign. (Update: In an e-mail to supporters on Oct. 29, the group said it had raised more than $3 million.) It has reported spending a total of $902,604 to attack Obama, according to the most recent report filed Oct. 26. It has reported spending substantial sums to the conservative Web site Newsmax and to other vendors for "email communication" opposing Obama's election, and to a Virginia company called Integram for "direct mail." It has also listed expenditures for "media production" and a "media buy."

Its Web site lists its executive director as Scott Wheeler, who also writes articles for Newsmax, which the NRT PAC pays to distribute anti-Obama e-mail messages, many of which are little more than fundraising pleas.

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/a_license_to_kill.html&sa=U&ei=5FN-Td_iMcqEtgfm-8C6BQ&ved=0CAUQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNEizyD1ChvFq0huPGNfaFV8xiE0KA

Back to passing around chain e-mails as valid sources I see... lol

Spanky: That Joanna is just a stick up

Next thing you know, "Knuckles" and "Louie" show up at your doorstep and say "Nice place ya got here. Wouldn't want to have anything bad to happen to it".

Okay, NOW I see the problem-

What right does anyone have dictating the people be free to choose to join a union- or not?

How dare anyone suggest ELECTIONS to certify union representation!

It's practically, well, American!

Seeing the thinkprogress crowd doubts the validity of the threatening letter based on where its printed on the web, here's some other sources. But it really doesn't matter that msnbc hasn't picked up on the letter, the letter is still very real.

Think a threatening letter to a businesses from the Tea Party would have gotten some MSM attention? You betcha!

And didn't President Obama, just the other day, tell us not to be bullies! Maybe the unions didn't get that message?

http://www.620wtmj.com/shows/charliesykes/117764004.html

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110312083909AAZ4bFs

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=12&f=3988&t=7301059

Joanna,

this letter Exposes the Thug Unions for what they are..

Sounds like a reasonable response to me, poor JS1, or are you against people having CHOICE about those they choose to do business with? Hmmm?

So newday, if the tax payers do not want their money ultimately going to the unions which fund the Dems, who do they get to boycott? Do they have any CHOICE about where their dollars go? Any CHOICE to not pay their taxes?

Steve: this letter Exposes the Thug Unions for what they are..

Next the government will force us all to buy health care insurance.

Thugs and bullies indeed.

People have always been free to join a union or not join it. What is wrong is taking away the right to have a union to join or not.

As for liberals being scared, I'd say the size of the rally in Wisconsin Saturday has the GOPTP frightened to their core. 85,000-100,00 liberals in Madison exceeded any Tea Party rally in Washington DC.

Jody,

No one is taking the Right of anyone away from Joining a Union but people will now not be forced to Join a Union if they want to work in a State job

in other words. CHOICE.....

Funny about that rally, Jody-

The only sources I found for it were think progress and the Huffington post- from think progress.

Oh, and a Sydney newspaper- that's Sydney, Australia. Read just like the Huffpo article, from thinkprogress.

So, what? There was this massive rally and no mainstream coverage?

Curiouser and curiouser. . .

Jody, Iowa: 85,000-100,00 liberals in Madison

Seeing Madison Wisconsin is "Berkeley California of the Mid-West", it's not too surprising that's where the Liberals are lurking about.

Steve, I say if you don't want a job that has a union, find another job. Sounds to me like someone wants all the perks that a union has earned over the years ie, 40 hour week, decent wage, but doesn't want to pay for the representation. Something for nothing, I get it.

Hey Brian,

I belonged to a Union I remember Days of working 12 hours. Working all Weekend Long. even working on Sundays and Working Holidays. that just a Weak arguement... I got paid for working those long hours . Just like i did for working a NON union Job.

Steve-505729

If you got paid time and a half for overtime, thank a Union, they won that right for you. If you got a mandatory lunch break, thank a Union, they won those too. Even if you work in a non-union job, you benefit from what the Unions have done. Unions raised the standard of living and improved working conditions for everyone.

So Amy, what exactly does the EEOC do?

Care to estimate the number of work place laws there are on the books? Go ahead, give it a shot.

Again for the 100th time - if unions are all that and a slice of cheese, why are so few people in unions? And why are there so many states pounding them right now?

Doesn't insolvency just suck? Being flat broke brings a whole new set of priorities, and you gots to have priorities. Seems like big perks and pensions for union folk are not among them.

Amy,

So Everyone has those Rights now. Even Non Union workers. so what good are Unions?

Steve-505729

So Everyone has those Rights now. Even Non Union workers. so what good are Unions?

Everyone has those rights because people in the union movement fought and in many cases died to get them and then defended them. Once the GOP eradicates unions completely, what makes you think you'll still have those rights?

Houston,

The Federal Govt gives me those rights. Not the Union..................

Steve,

WI unions have a national history behind them and did not just suddenly appear when Walker showed up to act on behalf of the GOP/Koch dismantle and privatize agenda.

In 1882, the First American Labor Parade was attended by 10,000 in New York City. Out of necessity, Unions have championed and defended decent wages and conditions in workplaces across America for a long time. Right now we live in a rich 21st century industrialized nation where working families are getting nickled and dimed.

Why do you defend employers who do not provide decent wages and conditions? For example, why allow worker safety to be struck down, when safety laws have been in place since 1890's and more recently signed into law by Nixon in 1970.

Why on earth would any worker anywhere unionized or not, just roll over?

Backhouse,

Why is it you think you Deserve something just because some UNION says you do I have found that every Employer i have Ever worked for Paid me exactly what i thought i Deserved, I told them how much i wanted what kind of Benefits i needed and how much Vaction time i wanted. If they didnt want to give me that i had the Choice to move on to a Different Employer. I set my own Worth, not someoen else. People that feel the need to allow someone else to decided what they are worth are FOLLOWERS. I found that if i worked hard and made money for MY employer he was willing to pay me more. There were others that were fired because the Employer saw that they were a Waste of money. But hey thats just me . I know i dont need someione standing up for me. and that i can prove my own worth to a Company.

Steve,

No idea what world you live in. But nine out of ten people do not have the option of walking into their employer's office and stating their terms, take it or leave it.

Well Rick we are just going to have to wait and see. If you are right there should be a landslide election next time in Wisc. and all the republicans will be swept out.

I kinda doubt that, but it should be fun watching it develop. and again, the union members can still donate/use their money to support whoever they want. Shouldn't it be a no-brainer that they will continue to support the democrats?

The only Choice they want people to have is to have an Abortion. other then that. they dont...

This is not a Union Busting bill. It is a Choice Bill People now have a choice as to whether or not they want to belong to a Union and even better who they give their Money too when it comes to election time.

Hmmm Let me think. Should i give it to the Unions who wil Decide where it goes Or should i keep my Money and Decide to give it to the Candidate i choose..

Spanky, Wisconsin is'nt Indiana. I have'nt been to Wisconsin, but Indiana is a RedState even tho President Obama was able to turn it Blue(1st time in 40 years I think). Indiana is All about the Rapture, Wisconsin, Not so Much!

Work related issues will dominate Wisconsin(recall efforts already underway), so this won't be Forgotten anytime soon.

But be my guest & keep Praying that it will.

I've posted this before, but i'll say it again, Democrats & Left leaning likeminded Voter's sat Home in 2010 & did'nt Vote for whatever reason. They see The error of thier Ways of being so Childish!

Elections have consequences, You better beleive Democrats who whined in 2010, See Very Clearly Now.

Elections do have consequences, as we are seeing.

You know what else does? Insolvency. Parting question - which states will have declared bankruptcy before the next election?

Spanky: Parting question - which states will have declared bankruptcy before the next election?

Probably none, as I don't believe a state can legally declare bankruptcy.

But what they can be is insolvent. Not able to pay their bills, both to their state workers, and to their private vendors. In addition, their bond ratings will be trashed. People that purchase such bonds will want better returns and less risk so they will invest elsewhere without the risk having to deal with the insolvent states. The result will be state services will be slashed, and there will be massive layoffs of the workers.

None, Spanky, None!

State, local and other governments ability to go BK is still an open question. Here in sunny Ca, we've had a few cities go under.

But whether it's called bankruptcy there will be procedures to allow a path to solvency. Here in San Diego one of those paths will be significant change to public employee unions.

Are these people even human?

Not even close... *shakes head*

It's one of the reasons they remind me of vampires - they have no heart or soul!

NO! They are subhuman forms of excrescence.

Feisty

Are these people even human?

Not even close... *shakes head*

It's one of the reasons they remind me of vampires - they have no heart or soul!

I know something else these Koch Suckers are. They are a bunch of greedy anti- American Mo*t**h^ f*c$er$.

What few realize is that the secretive oil billionaires of the Koch family, the main supporters of the right-wing groups that orchestrated the Tea Party movement, would not have the means to bankroll their favorite causes had it not been for the pile of money the family made working for the Bolsheviks in the late 1920s and early 1930s, building refineries, training Communist engineers and laying down the foundation of Soviet oil infrastructure.

The comrades were good to the Kochs.

A PEOPLE’S HISTORY OF KOCH INDUSTRIES: HOW STALIN FUNDED THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT

http://exiledonline.com/a-peoples-history-of-koch-industries-how-stalin-funded-the-tea-party-movement/

Pat -

Over on the previous thread, it was noted that "Obama has set a goal of having the highest proportion of college graduates in the world by 2020". I hope he's not counting on Pennsylvania to help America get there, as Governor Corbett just slashed funding for our state college system, of which I'm a graduate, by 50% - oops, sorry, I forgot - they're state universities now. When I was at Bloomsburg, it was still a state college, having evolved from Bloomsburg State Teachers College and before that Bloomsburg Normal School.

At the same time, the governor opted to ignore a huge possible revenue source by deciding not to impose any tax at all on our newest industry, natural gas drilling in the Marcellus Shale, which I believe makes us the only state in the U.S. not to do so. Apparently he thinks that if they have to pay the same taxes here as they do elsewhere, they'll pack up their drills and go somewhere else. Seriously.

But then, three guesses who got helped get him elected in the first place?

"The gas firms, their employees, or others who stand to gain as Marcellus Shale drilling expands put more than $500,000 into Pennsylvania candidates' coffers since September, state reports show. Much of the money came in donations of five figures or greater; most of it went to Republicans; and all of it was legal in a state with no contribution limits.......

......The industry had backed Corbett from the outset, giving his campaign $835,000 through mid-October, according to an analysis by the watchdog group Common Cause. As the race entered its last week, Corbett took in nearly $200,000 more from drilling interests."

http://articles.philly.com/2010-11-04/news/24953058_1_republican-tom-corbett-gas-firms-natural-gas

A sad time for Pennsylvania higher education, JoAnne. As a Pitt alum, I'm sorry they slashed the funding to our universities (except Penn State!). And no surprise that the Governor ignored the potential revenue source from the natural gas drilling----he knows where the contributions came from.

I can't believe someone would actually go on record saying what Kudlow said yet I know it is the conservative view--people don't matter, the economic machine does. It does not suprprise me but it makes me angry to think Kudlow and others like him place such little value on the human toll of the terrible tragedy in Japan.

JoAnne,PA. Iowa's GOP Gov Branstad wants to slash funding to our universities and to community colleges, too. There are GOP State House repubs though, who are not in favor of it. We'll see.

We do not need to have an educated work force. When the only jobs left are going to be cleaning house for those top 400 Multi-billionaires. I wonder how many persons will be able to clean up after them? Is it going to be 100.000 for every day that they spend at their residence?

Uneducated people are more likely to follow the lies told them over and over again by those who really do not have their best interest at heart.

Bev,

I know something else these Koch Suckers are. They are a bunch of greedy anti- American Mo*t**h^ f*c$er$.

What few realize is that the secretive oil billionaires of the Koch family, the main supporters of the right-wing groups that orchestrated the Tea Party movement, would not have the means to bankroll their favorite causes had it not been for the pile of money the family made working for the Bolsheviks in the late 1920s and early 1930s, building refineries, training Communist engineers and laying down the foundation of Soviet oil infrastructure.

Interesting choice of adjectives! Will Sally sit you down for a day also, or are you on a separate standard? Still on the Koch issue, but what about your buddy George Soros? Is he one of those evil CEOs that suck the blood of the masses, or does he also dance to a separate standard from the Kochs? George is a mover-and-shaker for the progressives, invests in media companies that use you libbies as you state the Kochs do for the righties.

So, which one is the better of the two: the Kochs or George, his hedge funds and OSI?

safecracker-1205811

Interesting choice of adjectives! Will Sally sit you down for a day also, or are you on a separate standard? Still on the Koch issue, but what about your buddy George Soros?

Soros made his own fortune and funded anti-communist union activity in Eastern Europe before the fall of the USSR. And the Koch Bros. are parasites who inherited their fortune from a daddy who made it working for Stalin. That's a pretty big difference right there.

Houston, I have no issue with anyone who earns a legit. income, Koch or Sorros. he Koch Bros. did profit from the work of the father, but Soros as a young man in Germany had his issues too. Read them; nothing like aiding the Nazis against the Jews.

Many liberals condemn anyone earning big bucks, but George seems to receive softballs from the progressives. Could it be because of his work to promote the progressive cause? Here is interesting information about George, his hudge funds and his organization controlled by him.

On September 16, 1992, Black Wednesday, Soros's fund sold short more than US$10 billion worth of pounds,^[25] profiting from the UK Government's reluctance to either raise its interest rates to levels comparable to those of other European Exchange Rate Mechanism countries or to float its currency.

Finally, the UK withdrew from the European Exchange Rate Mechanism, devaluing the pound sterling, earning Soros an estimated US$1.1 billion. He was dubbed "the man who broke the Bank of England."^[29] In 1997, the UK Treasury estimated the cost of Black Wednesday at £3.4 billion.

The Open Society Institute is not the only vehicle by which George Soros works to reshape America's political landscape. Indeed, Soros was the prime mover in the creation of the so-called "Shadow Democratic Party," or "Shadow Party," in 2003. This term refers to a nationwide network of labor unions, non-profit activist groups, and think tanks whose agendas are ideologically to the left, and which are engaged in campaigning for the Democrats. This network's activities include fundraising, get-out-the-vote drives, political advertising, opposition research, and media manipulation.

The Shadow Party was conceived and organized principally by George Soros, Hillary Clinton and Harold McEwan Ickes -- all identified with the Democratic Party left. Other key players included:

• Morton H. Halperin: Director of Soros' Open Society Institute
• John Podesta: Democrat strategist and former chief of staff for Bill Clinton
• Jeremy Rosner: Democrat strategist and pollster, ex-foreign policy speechwriter for Bill Clinton
• Robert Boorstin: Democrat strategist and pollster, ex-national security speechwriter for Bill Clinton
• Carl Pope: Co-founder of America Coming Together, Democrat strategist, and Sierra Club Executive Director
• Steve Rosenthal: Labor leader, CEO of America Coming Together, and former chief advisor on union matters to Clinton Labor Secretary Robert Reich
• Peter Lewis: Major Democrat donor and insurance entrepreneur
• Rob Glaser: Major Democrat donor and Silicon Valley pioneer
• Ellen Malcolm: Co-founder and President of America Coming Together, and founder of EMILY’s List
• Rob McKay: Major Democrat donor, Taco Bell heir, and McKay Family Foundation President
• Lewis and Dorothy Cullman: Major Democrat donors

To develop the Shadow Party as a cohesive entity, Harold Ickes undertook the task of building a 21st-century version of the Left's traditional alliance of the "oppressed" and "disenfranchised." By the time Ickes was done, he had created or helped to create six new groups, and had co-opted a seventh called MoveOn.org. Together, these seven groups constituted the administrative core of the newly formed Shadow Party:

• America Coming Together
• America Votes
• Center for American Progress
• Joint Victory Campaign 2004
• Media Fund
• MoveOn.org
• Thunder Road Group

I find each of these separate companies interesting. Seems George does want to create a new United States for us all.

He's eligible for recall in Jan 2012, and my guess is, he's one year and done. The GOP legislators can and likely will be recalled this year.

"Voting in the middle of night after stripping out any mention of finances"

Naw that's not like voting on Christmas Eve on the HC Bill that most of the country didn't want. Kind of like that there James?

Hey those 14 cowards ran away. What would had happened if those cowards were Republicans? There's not enough drugs to calm you down if that happened.

Really, george? I don't belong to a union. Never have. I support collective bargaining. All reasonable people of intelligence and profundity of thought do.

yeah, i can tell from the comments from walker and above article... it was about freedom of choice and budget concerns. get a life

its funny how in many dictatorships and fascist states they always go after the employment unions first. for freedom of choice of course or budgetary reason... whatever you choose

Care to tell us which liberals who support collective bargaining are union members, George. Here's a hint, I am not a member of and have never been a member of a union but I recognize that my salary and benefits were a direct benefit of the firms that had unions.

OH boy George. When you talk about education, try to look at from the perspective of poverty. when a child is concerned about where their next meal is coming from, if they cannot dress the same as the rest of their classmates, if they have to worry if when they get home from school that their parents may not be there and their little sibling has been alone for the past 6 hours, then when you experience that try to learn.

I have discovered that students who have tragedies in their lives outside of school have almost impossible abilities to concentrate about school. I teach adults, and the issues that many face as they are trying to improve their education and get a better job for themselves is overwhelming. Until you walk in their shoes, try to have some compassion.

Have YOU tried to corral 30 middle schoolers and teach them anything? Have you tried to impart some difficult math equation to students who are too busy looking at their phones and sexting to learn? think a little before you post. Try to look at the whole picture not just what is in front of you nose.

That is the interesting item in this entire thread. Ignore the hyperbole, focus on the cause and effect on membership in another state. The statistics on declining membership speak for themselves.

What else could be if not Nazism? Hitler hated people who didn't abide by his ideology.

Based on your train of thought, you must be a Nazi because you do not abide by Republican/Conservative ideology.

Dan G.-461155

I didn't hear the union members complaining.

You probably will not hear them complain. They will just do the same as Indiana and have their membership fade over time.

you wouldn't understand...it's too compliactred for you obama voters

"When the right to bargain collectively is forbidden, freedom will be lost."

Who said that? RONALD FREAKIN' REAGAN.

Republicans seem to have lost all sense of reason. Even their hero wouldn't pass their so-called "Purity Test".