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The Senate is expected to vote Tuesday on two competing versions of bills to fund the government for the rest of this year.
Neither bill is expected to get the 60 votes required to advance, but the votes will set the stage for additional negotiations.
The Republican bill is the one already passed by the House, cutting $61-billion from current spending levels. The Senate Democrats' version cuts spending about $6-billion.
The exact timing of the votes hasn't been set, but will likely be mid-afternoon, according to Democratic and Republican aides.
With both bills widely predicted to fail, the only suspense is whether either of the party's moderates will break ranks.
Do moderate Republicans like Collins, Snowe, Brown, or Kirk feel the House bill's cuts are too much and would adversely affect economic growth? Do moderate Democrats like McCaskill, Tester, Manchin, or Ben Nelson think their party's bill doesn't cut spending enough?
Later today in a speech on the Senate floor, Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin will announce he'll vote against both bills, saying they are "extremely partisan and unrealistic." He'll also call for President Barack Obama to step up his efforts to negotiate a compromise.
In excerpts of his speech provided to NBC News, Manchin -- who is up for re-election in 2012 -- says the Democratic bill "doesn't go nearly far enough" and the GOP bill "blindly hacks the budget with no sense of our priorities or of our values as a country."
"The truth of the matter is that this debate, as important as it is, will not be decided by House Republicans and Senate Democrats negotiating with each other - or past each other. This debate will be decided when the President leads these tough negotiations," he will say. "And, right now - that is not happening."
Last week, Vice President Biden held closed-door negotiations with the bipartisan leadership of the House and Senate. And with Biden traveling overseas this week, the White House says negotiations are continuing at the staff level.
The current bill funding government operations runs out March 18th. If a compromise can't be reached by then, Congress and the White House confront a familiar dilemma: pass a short term bill as Congress did last week or face a government shutdown.
"The bottom line is this - the President is the leader of this great nation," Manchin will say. "And when it comes to an issue of significant national importance, the President must lead. Not the Majority Leader or Speaker, but the President."
Leave a Comment:
Considering that the Senate does not have the right to initiate spending bills and that the $6 billion is a pittance compared to what actually needs to be done, I think that they are just grandstanding.
If the Senate does not pass the House version, or if they pass it and then Obama vetos it, the house needs to double the cuts and continue doubling until the democrats get the message that the American taxpayer is tired of the profligate spending by either party.
I don't think that's going to work.
All that will do is make the house look like idiots that can't get the message that what they want isn't going to happen.
If you really want to help the republicans, urge them to negotiate and compromise. That is how this whole process is supposed to work.
If you want to damage them force them into gridlock.
I think this is perfect time to consolidate our laws. A rewrite so to speak. We have this huge complex system and we constantly add work arounds, holes are found and exploited. I look at it like a windows program.
Personally I think we should focus on jobs and a steady scalpel applied to the deficit, while rewriting the complex legislation into a more real time format.
Little things add up, Take CPB. Do they really need taxpayer money? The executives at the Corporation for Public Broadcasting (CPB), which distributes the taxpayer money allocated for public broadcasting to other stations, are generously compensated. According to CPB's 2009 tax forms, President and CEO Patricia de Stacy Harrison received $298,884 in reportable compensation and another $70,630 in other compensation from the organization and related organizations that year. That's practically a pittance compared to Kevin Klose, president emeritus of NPR, who received more than $1.2 million in compensation, according to the tax forms the nonprofit filed in 2009.
Despite how accessible media has become to Americans over the years, funding for CPB has grown considerably. In 2001, the federal government appropriated $340 million for CPB. Last year it got $420 million. As Congress considers ways to close the $14 trillion deficit, cutting funding for the CPB has even been proposed by President Obama's bipartisan deficit reduction commission. Instead, Mr. Obama wants to increase CPB's funding to $451 million in his latest budget.
Meanwhile, highly successful, brand-name public programs like Sesame Street make millions on their own. "Sesame Street," for example, made more than $211 million from toy and consumer product sales from 2003-2006. Sesame Workshop President and CEO Gary Knell received $956,513 in compensation in 2008. With earnings like that, Big Bird doesn't need the taxpayers to help him compete against the Nickleodeon cable channel's Dora the Explorer
When you look at our National debt. When you look at how much we pay for that debt. When you look at the actual percentages of our proposed 2011 budget these cuts represent. THEN you can see how little they are actually doing about the problem.
The recession is officially over. This is the new "normal" we are living right now. In the not-so-distant-future, these days, right now, will be viewed as the good old days.
Truly addressing the enormous debt would take cuts in the range of 300 to 500 billion per year. That would be very painful, and politically it would doom whoever voted for them. In this system no one has the stones to really address the problem. They talk about it. They rattle the swords a little, then they move on to something else so we are distracted once again from the real problem.
Example: How many times has Obama mentioned securing our borders?? Fifty?? A hundred??
Talk is cheap. It makes you look concerned, makes you look involved. Then, its off to another topic.
Everything Obama does is politicized. Any action he takes, any speech he makes, must first pass through his political filter to make sure it doesn't come back to cause him distress politically down the road. He is constantly campaigning. 365 days a year. This is not leadership, this is showmanship.
To take a page from Reagan:
Are the American people better off than they were two years ago?
I believe most Americans would say "yes".
If your main premise is that every President is a politican, I don't think anyone would disagree.
"The American public" does not support the extremist agenda of the ultra-right, nor does "the American public" want to GOP/TP wasting valuable time when it's the economy and jobs that are first and foremost on the voters' minds. Literally from last election day to this week, every poll of public opinion says so.
Top 10 Worst Things about the Republicans' Immoral Budget
The Republican budget would:
1. Destroy 700,000 jobs, according to an independent economic analysis.
2. Zero out federal funding for National Public Radio and public television.
3. Cut $1.3 billion from community health centers—which will deprive more than 3 million low-income people of health care over the next few months.
4. Cut nearly a billion dollars in food and health care assistance to pregnant women, new moms, and children.
5. Kick more than 200,000 children out of pre-school by cutting funds for Head Start.
6. Force states to fire 65,000 teachers and aides, dramatically increasing class sizes, thanks to education cuts.
7. Cut some or all financial aid for 9.4 million low- and middle-income college students.
8. Slash $1.6 billion from the National Institutes of Health, a cut that experts say would "send shockwaves" through cancer research, likely result in cuts to Alzheimer's and Parkinson's research, and cause job losses.
9. End the only federal family planning program, including cutting all federal funding that goes to Planned Parenthood to support cancer screenings and other women's health care.
10. Send 10,000 low-income veterans into homelessness by cutting in half the number of veterans who get housing vouchers this year.
Sources:
1. "GOP spending plan would cost 700,000 jobs, new report says," The Washington Post, February 28, 2011
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=206357&id=26418-3099788-jIZqpwx&t=6
2. "GOP budget would cut funding for public broadcasting," The Washington Independent, February 14, 2011
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=206513&id=26418-3099788-jIZqpwx&t=7
3. "NACHC Statement in Response to the Budget from the House Appropriations Committee," National Association of Community Health Centers website, accessed March 4, 2011
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=206514&id=26418-3099788-jIZqpwx&t=8
4."Bye Bye, Big Bird. Hello, E. Coli.," The New Republic, February 12, 2011
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=206104&id=26418-3099788-jIZqpwx&t=9
House Republican Spending Cuts Target Programs For Children And Pregnant Women
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=206566&id=26418-3099788-jIZqpwx&t=10
5. "Obama and the GOP's Spending Cuts: Where's the Outrage?" Mother Jones, February 18, 2011
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=206569&id=26418-3099788-jIZqpwx&t=11
6. Ibid.
7. "Deficit Reduction on the Backs of the Most Vulnerable," Center for American Progress, March 2011
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=206518&id=26418-3099788-jIZqpwx&t=12 (PDF)
8. "The GOP Budget and Cancer—Why New Research Is at Risk," Politics Daily, February 27, 2011
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=206515&id=26418-3099788-jIZqpwx&t=13
"Republican Budget Cuts at Heart of Medical Research: Albert Hunt," Bloomberg, February 20, 2011
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=206516&id=26418-3099788-jIZqpwx&t=14
"Durbin: Cuts to NIH put research jobs at risk," Business Week, February 28, 2011
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9LLSCB00.htm
9. "GOP Spending Plan: X-ing Out Title X Family Planning Funds," Wall Street Journal, February 9, 2011
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=206105&id=26418-3099788-jIZqpwx&t=15
10. "House GOP Spending Cuts Would Prevent 10,000 Low-Income Veterans From Receiving Housing Assistance," Think Progress, March 1, 2011
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=206517&id=26418-3099788-jIZqpwx&t=16
Clotho,
Except for maybe that 8.9% that are still unemployed, or the other 88% that are under employed or having a harder time making ends meet, because of rising gas costs, higher prices everywhere. But the top 2% probably are hurting--at least not the liberal folks on here.
Personally, I am better off, but not because of what the government did or did not do, but because of the choices I made prior to that and since that time. My financial situation might have lost a little, but my inner self is a lot happier, because I am where I want to be and doing what I love.
At a time when we a running massive and unprecedented deficits bold action.
The democrats when they had solid majorities and virtually had the Republicans locked out of the senate negotioations with 60 votes did not pass a single budget bill, instead optied for a continuing resolution.
This brings us to where we are now. It is time to look at all the spending and have congress tighten everyones belts.
Clotho - It's still a good question to ask. I can only speak for myself. I received a 3 per-cent pay increase on January 1st. I received my real estate tax bill on January 20th. It ate up my 3 per-cent and more. I live in Wisconsin. In my town, the teachers union meets with the school board which is made up of former administrators and teachers. In a representative government, where is my representation? I am worse off than I was a year ago. Again, I am an individual where theoretically it is "one person, one vote"
Both sides quit playing "paddy cake"....and get to the big cuts medicaid, medicare, and social security. Have your closed door meeting and come up with a compromise.
Tea Party Tammy first out of the chute. You go girl, your way or the highway, eh?
NO! The economy has been upgraded from "Critical" to "Guarded" condition but it is still in the ICU and still hooked up to life-support. The types of hack-job cuts you and yours are proposing will end the recovery and send our economy into a coma and every economist agrees, now is NOT the time for drastic cuts.
What? Are you trying to kill the patient?
YES, that's exactly what you must be trying to do so you can turn around and try to blame it on the President and his party.
Have a cup of Tea Tammy and chill out. There will be plenty of opportunities for budget cutting before 2012 and plenty of time for you to try to blame the GOP's failure to create jobs on the White House. But that time is not now.
We all agree the deficit must be addressed. There are no naysayers on that point. But how, where and when we cut is critical to our economy and our nation.
Stand by your man (or woman) Tammy but leave the budget cutting to the people who know how.
Got TEA?
Clotho
To take a page from Reagan:
Are the American people better off than they were two years ago?
I believe most Americans would say "yes".
===================
If our children could comprehend the enormous debt Obama and the Democrats have created in the last two years, and knowing that they, the children, will be the ones paying for that debt, I believe most if not all children would answer "no".
I agree with you completely Big Bear.
The U3 is at 8.9% whoopie-do. Look at the true indicator, the U6 number from the BLS which is currently 15.9% - a true evaluation of the unemployment picture in America. Look at the BLS web site and see the comparison from the Great Depression of the 20's to today.
Unfortunately, doing so would require leadership. The Republicans have shown a mild amount of leadership in the House and have come up with $60 billion worth of cuts. A decent start, but really nothing that will make any difference going forward. The Democrats in the Senate, as expected, have started with their demonization of the GOP with their "DRACONIAN" cuts mantra, and for some reason can only find $6 billion in "cuts" out of a $3.5 trillion dollar budget or one tenth of a penny on a dollar. Obama's leadership on the reducing the deficit has compelled him to submit a 2012 budget with $1.65 trillion in deficit spending, so it's clear he's doesn't much care about it either.
To say anyone in Washington DC is serious about the reduction of the deficit is really not true.
John A: Moveon.org? Seriously? That is hardly an independent source.
MoveOn.org, another George Soros organization. With Georgie openly stating his desire for restructuring governments in his belief system, I would not buy into anything from this organization.
"Little things add up"
Like the $485 million dollar alternative engine that the Airforce doesn't want, but which Boehner (R) and Cantor (R) voted to keep in the budget because it is built in their district.
Republicans are taking a political stand on the budget for strictly partisan reasons, not with the interest of the country in mind. They keep funding pork projects that benefit their own districts, while playing the part of deficit hawks to go along with their "brand."
It's insane.
See what happens when you challenge these Liberals to reveal their sources? It all falls apart for them.
Hey Skip - got a calculator?
Great, how about you calculate the debt costs for last month for us? Can you do that big guy?
Hey while you are at it how about telling us what you think the total debt will be through December 2011, you know using the current rate of increase.
Skip, my man, I just hope we can afford tea after all is said and done. And brother, if you have been to the grocery store lately, you'd know we can't.
But it is nice to see that we have plenty of time, right?
Bonus question - if they can blow through $223 billion in just 28 days, what's March gonna look like?
dosh
And the Dems would understand the concept of compromise exactly HOW? They have rammed home additional entitlements (regardless of opinion or cost), unprecedented debt, unbelieveable NON-participation when they don't get their way, and (if it wasn't so sad) a degree of ideology of Left leaning policies that sickens the majority of Americans.
Harry Reid wouldn't know compromise if it struck him between the eyes! I doubt he can even spell it!
I'm almost of the opinion that everything should stop until they come up with cuts that bring the budget back to 2008 levels. My god! How did we even exist a meer 3 years ago before the Dems turned loose the printing presses? Tell me exactly how it could possible get worse? We could still spend $2.2 Trillion a year ... just not the extra $1.7 trillion WE DON'T HAVE! You Socialist like to "spread it around"? Just spread around the $2.2 Trillion!
Can some Lefty out there explain the new math of how you can spend 3 dollars for every 2 dollars you have as income year after year and possible EXPECT anything to get better EVEN in the short term? How's this work? Explain it to me! Tell me that ultimately having a million dollar paycheck that's worth nothing is better than having a $500 on that you by SOMETHING with. Explain it! Is is Magic? That's really going to help the poor and middle class! It's Bernie Madoff unbeliveable, yet you Dems continue to go down the path following the lemming in front of you. Enjoy the first step!
I'd rather suffer for the rest of MY life as opposed to screwing my kids and grandkids!
The President won't lead!The Dems do not have a single word of truth in their vocabulary! The Health Care Act is an economic poison pill created solely so the Prez (you know the one that's can't lead in anything) saves face from stepping in a pile of sh$t created by Nancy and Harry!
dear tea baggers,
you all would have been very helpful when bush squandered a surplus by putting this country in two wars and reducing taxes at the same time for the first time in history.
you were all, of course, cheering him on. so sit down and shut up. you were the ones to break things. dont try and tell others how to fix it.
zaruski,
And you, my friend, are the poster child for the Dems! Thank you for confirming my point! Just bend over and take it, that's your solution. That's your outlook on "compromise". The defense rests!
Hanky-Spanky,
Nah you do it, my calculator is in my other suit.
But you might remember Hanky, we all know there is a deficit that MUST be dealt with, it's just the where and when as well as the how that we need to figure out.
There IS time. Hack and slash cuts based on politics will only cost us more jobs and throw the economy into a tailspin.
Wake up and smell the coffee hanky. We're all in this together bud and we'll all be affected if this political meddling shoves us into a full-fledged depression.
Those on the right, who don't remember how we got into this huge deficit to begin with, don't just have amnesia. They suffer from The Stupid.
Too bad there is no cure for stupid.
... said the Lemming following his buddies off the cliff
J.Benet: "This brings us to where we are now. It is time to look at all the spending and have congress tighten everyones belts."
"Tightening everyone's belts" is one thing, but the only ones whose belts are being tightened are the workers and the poor. Tightening the belts of the poor while handing more money to the rich is not going to fix the economy. I keep hearing about "shared sacrifice" and "tightening everyone's belts", but I don't see the millionaires and the corporations sacrificing or tightening their belts. Can anyone give me examples of corporations and/or millionaires "sacrificing" or "belt tightening"?
Heartlight3
Can't answer for so called "millionaires" but corporations have tightened their belt through unemployment, relocation, reorganization, and frankly bankruptcy. According to Bankruptcydata.com there were over 120 major bankruptcies last year, of which 19 or 20 were "noteworthy", that is firms with over $50million in assets. The last two years, 2009 and 2010 had the highest rate of bankruptcies since 1990.
So ... some "very rich" are not so "rich" anymore. And along the way ... quite a few regular type Joe's just like you and me.
Edward-1075991
Everything Obama does is politicized. Any action he takes, any speech he pic.makes, must first pass through his political filter to make sure it doesn't come back to cause him distress politically down the road. He is constantly campaigning. 365 days a year. This is not leadership, this is showmanship.
JoAnnaSmith1
If our children could comprehend the enormous debt Obama and the Democrats have created in the last two years, and knowing that they, the children, will be the ones paying for that debt, I believe most if not all children would answer "no".
********************************************************************************
A small amount of political science and history knowledge will quickly enlighten you both.
If you think all that you dislike has been created by one man, you give him far too much credit. President Obama did not create politics as it is today, nor did he create all of our debt. For those things you can point the finger at YEARS of posturing and decisions from both sides of the aisle.
I believe he hates these things of which you speak as much or more than you do. But he's a realist. He knows that even during the best of conditions changing the way Washington works won't happen in any one administration. As a candidate he was frank about this.
I raised my children to look at the big picture, not my narrow view or anyone elses. Let's hope "our children" have the opportunity and smarts to do the same.
For the liberals who think we can continue to spend like there's no tomorrow (skip, Chandler, et al) -
What part of WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY do you not understand?
$61 billion is paltry compared to what is needed and $6.5 billion... Well, $6.5 billion is not even a serious attempt to counter what the republicans are doing. The democrats need to come up with another $55 billion if they even want to be taken seriously.
As for the Senate originating a spending bill --- IT'S NOT THEIR JOB!
That job belongs to the House of Representatives as per the Constitution of the United States, something which liberals and progressives, but especially the democrats in Congress seem to have only a nodding acquaintance with.
So, no, the House is not even obligated to allow the Senate's spending bill to come to the floor for a vote - and considering that it's not even a serious attempt to cut spending, they probably won't.
So, will it be the democrat's fault if a spending bill does not get passed? YES! The ball's in their court and they refuse to make even a token attempt to do their job responsibly.
If they didn't want to deal with the republicans on their terms they should have passed a budget for FY2011.
By the way -
In order to actually pay down the country's debt we need to get the budget down to about half of what it currently stands at. I know it can't be done all at once, but I think we should aim for a 20% reduction each year for a while. Even if we don't reach that point, I think that is where we need to aim for. I know everyone will be hurting, but it's too bad if those currently on welfare have to find a job to support their habits. Families are going to step up and help each other.
Oh, and while I understand where the TEA party is coming from, I'm not a member. I don't even know where any groups are in my area. I am, however, a fiscal conservative and believe that the federal government should stick to what they are allowed to do by the Constitution.
So where is it in the constitution to give subsidies to big oil and tax breaks to corporations? If you want to be fiscally responsible you would make sure the tax cuts you give are revenue neutral. If you do not you add to the deficit.
Helen -
ALL welfare needs to be stopped. I can see a need for something for those who CANNOT work, but those who WILL NOT work, need to be cut off. It is not the government's job to take care of everyone. It is the government's job to protect this country - it's why the military is mandated by the Constitution - and it's the government's job to regulate interstate commerce, but all entitlements are extraneous and we can no longer afford them.
I think it will take a few years, however, to get people weaned off of the entitlements. Prices on food and fuel will rise as subsidies disappear, so that is something to consider as well.
So, no, subsidies are not covered in the Constitution, and neither is welfare, food stamps, Social Security, or Medicare. As these items make up over half of the budget, they are going to have to be cut - it's the only way this country will be able to recover financially and start to pay down the debt.
I call bullsh!t - the Speaker of the House controls the purse strings NOT the President!
Obama holds the Veto Pen. Of course he has control.
I agree with calling BS on this Feisty. Obama isn't a leader, he just campaigns
Annie - you might want to take a remedial course in Government 101 before commenting. Otherwise, you come across as just another low information voter!
Yes, and when the Dems took control of those purse strings, the economy tanked and the deficit exploded. And two months after the Republicans took it back and stoped the largest tax increase in history, jobs started to appear.
Nice try... but... NO dice!
Anyone with an IQ higher than a turnip knows that's not true...
At least we know what your score is... lol
Feisty
I call bullsh!t - the Speaker of the House controls the purse strings NOT the President!
Annie - you might want to take a remedial course in Government 101 before commenting. Otherwise, you come across as just another low information voter!
GOTTA LAUGH, dismantling ignorance ain't easy!!!
Brown and Kirk are Koch Suckers.
EXCLUSIVE VIDEO: Scott Brown Begs David Koch For Money
Watch it:
http://thinkprogress.org/2011/03/07/scott-brown-david-koch-money/
Feisty:
Not to mention that Manchin represents the state with one of the lowest standards of living in the country!
Who is he to chastise the President?
Some people have no shame. Both Democrats and Republicans can sometimes lose their mind when they let their egos get in the way of common sense.
Good Golly but Feisty the old gal sure seems preoccupied with IQs and low information. And of all the topics out there, those are two she is very familiar with.
It's ok dear. Sure they are putting forth valid points, but those personal attacks you continue to unleash are so very effective.
So Feisty just how do you know so much about these other people's intelligence levels? Say, are you familiar with the term "knee-jerk reaction?"
Memo to Feisty and Bev. - you two are doing the exact opposite of Chuck Sheen. But whatever you do please do not stop. It is so nice to start the day off with a good laugh.
Ahhh, more Hanky-Spanky. Please Hanky..er Spanky, enlighten us withon your solution to our budget woes.
Did you and "Chuck Sheen" smoke a doobie or snort a little something and figure it all out last night, while celebrating his emancipation from CBS? I havn't laughed so hard since I saw that cartoon where Gaddafhi tweeted Sheen to "Get some help, Dude." Maybe you should follow the Libyan leader's advice as well.
Feisty is right, of course. And if there is a knee-jerk involved, I'd say that was YOU Spanky.
GOT TEA?
The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their president.
The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails America. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince. The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president.
Morning Skip!
Old Spanky's got a major 'feisty' crush - he follows me like a shadow.... lol
I know and I think True Nazi is jealous, he seems to be one of your fans too.
Poor fellow has a persecution complex as well, he thinks MSNBC is singling him out for rejection.
Maybe he and Spanky could form a club, the "He-man Woman and MSNBC Hater's Club." You have to wonder if they are so ill-treated WHY do to bother to stop by?
It must be LUV! Or S&M.
True American,
Without question there is a double standard on the MSNBC political site. You are not the first to have information sent to the circular trash can, or in this instance, cyberspace.
There are some that continually verbally comment with rather graphic dialogue while others with milder comments are collapsed. But, with the MSNBC media supervising content, and the desire from many to limit speech on the site to only that which is consistent with the libbie thought process, whatever that is, why should anyone be surprised?
How about that as a discussion point MSNBC?
True American-2367375
I was trying to post a link to a very interesting video, but MSNBC has censored me yet again.
So, here it is. youtube.com/watch?v=xd9OYJMX9t4&feature=player_embedded
just add www. before youtube
You know it's great if they won't let me post it!
You'll also notice that Bev and Feisty can post anything they want to post.....hmmm
Hey, Don't lay the blame on FR. It's you mistake dumbo. The Html tag for the address bar begins with http.
This jpg is for you
http://bestapps.me/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/dunced.jpg
Repost:
Beverly in Chicago
Feisty
I call bullsh!t - the Speaker of the House controls the purse strings NOT the President!
Annie - you might want to take a remedial course in Government 101 before commenting. Otherwise, you come across as just another low information voter!
GOTTA LAUGH, dismantling ignorance ain't easy!!!
Brown and Kirk are Koch Suckers.
EXCLUSIVE VIDEO: Scott Brown Begs David Koch For Money
Watch it:
http://thinkprogress.org/2011/03/07/scott-brown-david-koch-money/
What's up there Skip-per?
Hey man, I do got me a bad case of the Feisty.
Bev - thanks so much for the re-post. Nothing brings a point home like mindless repitition.
Say Bev, where does CREW get its coin?
Thinkprogress.com......another Soros owned organization that I am expected to buy into? ?This is bias libbie stuff Bev. Can't you be original and comment without a liberal site cut and paste?
@Spanky, if you don't behave, either Feisty, Bev, Navy or the other minions may have you removed from the blog so they can censor the content while continuing to spread the vile comments.
I find it quite entertaining to watch Feisty and Bev attack everyone that disagrees with them. It is SO predictable and pathetic.
BTW feisty... Spanky does not have to follow you everywhere... since you apparently have no other life, spending every waking hour posting hate on FR... you are quite easy to find :-P
Spanky,
Well recognizing you have a problem is the first step to dealing with it and I'm glad to see that you realize you have an obsession with our Fiesty Red Head. But you should know that your love is in vain. She is happily married and off the market.
See ya!
True American -
Look, for the last time - there is no vast liberal conspiracy to censor you. You want proof? Here's your oh-so-special link, courtesy of a known liberal. Happy now? Sheesh.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd9OYJMX9t4&feature=player_embedded
P.S. - Try this one while you're at it:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/03/james-okeefe-punks-npr-with-muslim-brotherhood-stunt.php?ref=fpa
Or just read this excerpt:
"James O'Keefe's organization has put up what they claim is hidden camera footage of NPR executives slamming the Tea Party over lunch at a Georgetown restaurant with O'Keefe's pranksters, who were posing as a phony Muslim advocacy group interested in donating to NPR.
In the video released by O'Keefe's "Project Veritas," Ron Schiller, president of the NPR foundation, delivers a laundry list of liberal complaints against the Tea Party and remains quiet as the fake donors complain about Jewish control of the media. A spokeswoman for NPR confirmed to TPM that Schiller is the person in the video but did not offer additional information at this time.
"They're seriously, seriously racist people," Schiller says of the Tea Party at one point.
Previous tapes by O'Keefe's group have later turned out to be misleadingly edited, including the video that launched them to stardom featuring O'Keefe posing as a pimp in front of ACORN offices, so it's worth taking the overall footage with a grain of salt until further details emerge. Last year, O'Keefe's credibility took another major hit when he reportedly tried to invite a CNN reporter onto his boat to try and seduce her as a prank, an effort that was revealed when one of his own colleagues blew the whistle to the press."
Anything else I can help you out with?
Working out just fine for me so far, True, thanks for asking. Though I don't get my info from cartoons, so I'm afraid I'm missing the Homer Simpson reference.
I like to read the comments on these articles because I like to know what people are thinking about these things, but today it seems that 90% of the comments are bickering back and forth among the posters. I'm really not interested in what you think of each other. When only 1 out of 35 posts is actually relevant to the article, it is a huge waste of time trying to find the one relevant post.
And since True American seems to be discussing a different article, which I read and wanted to read the comments on, but encountered the same issue on that thread, I will post my comment on that topic here. I would examine any tape released by James O'Keefe claiming to portray damaging information about anyone very carefully. Since his previous tapes have been discovered to be fraudulent set-ups to try to discredit their subjects. I would make sure that is not the case this time before jumping to any conclusions based on what you "actually see and hear" in his tapes.
Regarding the original post, EXACTLY! The Congress doesn't pay any attention to the President's budget proposal; if there was no law which mandated it, I'd suggest the President not waste time in submitting one! The Congress is also supposed to have the Constitutional duty to coin money--I always wonder why they were allowed to legislate that one away.
And while they attempting to cut, lets throw in there the "Hidden" $105 BILLION in the Health Care Bill to pre-fund it for the first 8 years...CUT THAT! You talk about subversive Progressive/Socialist Democratic tricks....Pelosi, Reid and Obama will do ANYTHING to take this country down.
If it's hidden how is that you know about?
Maybe it wasn't really hidden to begin with.
Maybe it was in fact fairly well publicized.
That sounds like a B@tsh!t Bachmann statement.
I saw Michelle Bachmann holding up that sign on MTP too. A shame it had no actual basis in fact. She does love her signs though.
During a hearing on Capitol Hill Thursday, the secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) admitted to double-counting in the Obamacare budget.
In her first appearance before the House Energy and Commerce Health Subcommittee since the health-care law passed, Kathleen Sebelius responded to a line of questioning by Republican Rep. John Shimkus of Illinois about whether $500 billion in Medicare cuts were used to sustain the program or pay for the law.
"There is an issue here on the budget because your own actuary has said you can't double-count," said Shimkus. "You can't count — they're attacking Medicare on the CR when their bill, your law, cut $500 billion from Medicare."
He continued: "Then you're also using the same $500 billion to what? Say your funding health care. Your own actuary says you can't do both. […] What's the $500 billion in cuts for? Preserving Medicare or funding the health-care law?
Sebelius' reply? "Both."
Talk about a drinking game...
If you took a shot everytime old batsh!t crazy repeated that number she pulled out of her a@@, you've have been wasted in no time!
dosh: nope...the Reps were going to defund the 'implementation' of this bill. As it turns out, buried somewhere in there was the additional cost of the $1.5 BILLION to implement it. Michelle Bachman is telling the Dems to take it out!
Turns out that no, it was in the CBO calculations. It wasn't a lump sum of 105 billion, it was a number of programs. Even Fox says the CBO knew about it.
Bacchman is a sensationalist trying to make a name for herself. She's full od @!$%#.
annirich
dosh: nope...the Reps were going to defund the 'implementation' of this bill. As it turns out, buried somewhere in there was the additional cost of the $1.5 BILLION to implement it. Michelle Bachman is telling the Dems to take it out!
That deception annirich exists in Michelle Bachmann's head. She's such a zombie. She's probably been unconscious for centuries. That sign, she has to carry it. It's her insanity card. Notice she usually has a sign to prove she's a certified t-bagger.
BTW; this harpy knows that funding was appropriated by congress to fund the health care bill were read and were on line for 3 days.
Or maybe the zombie can't read. After all not only is she crazy she is an Oral Roberts graduate. The dimwits like Dana Perio got their papers there.
How about getting back that trillion that bush and the republicans wasted in iraq...off budget of course...or the trillion for the free viagra for grandad medicare drug bill
I'm afraid your billions are chump change, not to mention it isn't true...
The bottom line is this - everyone wants someone else to take the heat.
Ok, we'll get this bull@!$%# out of the way and then everyone will have cover to say "we didn't have any choice but to negotiate" and something meaningful can be produced.
Good luck getting this president to lead....he's too busy campaigning and promising more taxpayer money he doesn't have.
Tammy, I like your idea of the house just upping the cuts everytime it has to revise the bill.
The "Where's Waldo" President. Too Funny ! No doubt, he s position is that he is "Present." What a great leader!
You should thank God that we have President Obama in charge. Gosh, we would be in such deep do-do, if McCain and Palin were in charge.
Ain't that the truth Job1.
I can't imagine what a tragedy we'd be faced with if heckle and jeckle were running the country.
Gidget & the Geezer!
Libbie Opinions are like rectums - everyone has one!
"McCain and Palin were in charge"
OMG! Can you imagine Palin touring overseas, getting ink on the palms of the foreign dignataries every time they shook hands?
Let's see...what would McCain do...well, it probably would be a Democratic House and Senate, since the Republicans wouldn't have been energized to retaliate-vote in 2010, so it would be a reasonable budget that McCain would happily sign. Of course, I wouldn't be here to see it, because I'd have jumped off a cliff if McCain had won.
Safecracker
How do you know? Have you been checking? Ohhhh, I get it, that's what your blog moniker means, or are you just a cracker in a safe location? Is Darth Dick in there with you? No wonder you have an obsession with rectums.
skip Nicholson, Oklahoma City,
Bwahahahaaaahhhhhhahahahahaha! You really rank there in the same category as Feisty and Cut&Paste Bev skip. Everyone does have an opinion; as well as a rectum. How else can you libbies pass your excretement? As for Darth Dick? No, I do believe you must have had him recently....and perhaps often.........
And, in typical libbie fashion, attack when you can, retreat when necessary. Hey skip, didn't the Traveling WI Democrats recently do that too?
I am amused to see Obama and the word leadership in the same sentence. His Senate voting record on the hard issues is "Present". Yep. There is real leadership material.
The reality is the Senate and the House have to get the budget passed by working together, and the Dems will not receive any cover from Obama, who previously threw many of the Dems under the bus while passing (and not funding) the new Health Care fiasco.
Joe -
Considering that Pelosi was responsible for writing a budget for FY2011 and Reid to work with her on it, I don't feel that the democrats have any room to complain about the republicans trying to do the job responsibly that the democrats refused to do. Personally Ifeel that $61 billion is a pittance when over $200 billion has been identified by the GAO as being able to be cut without affecting government - just getting rid of duplication basically.
The thing is, it's going to take some serious and painful cutting to get this country back on its feet financially. It's going to have to be across the board and include entitlements, military, and everything else. Anyone with half a brain realizes this.
I do think it's reasonable to aim for a 20% reduction each year. We probably won't reach there - especially at first - but it's something to aim for and gives a target. Once we get the budget to about 50% of where it's currently at we should be able to actually start paying down the debt. At the 50% point, I don't think anyone would have a real problem with raising taxes to pay the debt down sooner.
"The bottom line is this - the President is the leader of this great nation," Manchin will say. "And when it comes to an issue of significant national importance, the President must lead.
Please don't Lead; Obama is anything but a leader. He fashions himself a dictator ie his march toward everything socialistic from the Spread-the-Wealth UN green scam, to conviscating land to prevent drilling, to a HCR bill that will devastate the country, to his push with Muslims, to his 'organizing' for the Unions....EVERYTHING he does is subversive to the American way! He's our 'enemy-within'. No doubt about it.
annirich
Okay, that answers it. You are one of the B@tsh!t Bachmann crazies. That is the new name for the Tea People who follow Bachmann. As a matter of fact I can get you a t-shirt or sweat shirt that I have had made up.
annirich--he is your President. As much as I disagreed with what President Bush did he was still my President and I would never say the kind of things that you so casually say about President Obama. Not very patriotic. Don't you want our country to succeed?
Echo82: NO...Obama is NOT my President. I date back to Eisenhower and no matter which man, which party was in office I NEVER was 'afraid for my country' and today I assure you, I am deathly afraid. If you have researched, what little there is, on Obama it is more than obvious what this man is about and it is NOT about our country. So No echo, I have NO President as I will never acknowledge this 'enemy-within' as such.
Echo82,
We have the freedom to say whatever we feel in this country. If Obama is a socialist idiot with no clue of how to do his job. Then thats the way it is.
I'm sure that Annierich will agree with me that we would just love to have a REAL President. A President that we can rally behind and support.
This "president" is an embarrassment to our entire nation. The closer you look the worse he is.
@annirich--not an american citizen? renouncing? if not, he is your President, like it or not. Many people didn't want Bush but he was our President.
Echo82,
As an outsider in this conversation, I see both points of view. I believe that we should all respect the office of the president--which I try to do, but at the same time, our constitution's bill of rights allows to voice an opinion about anyone and anything.
Obama was elected by the people--or the electoral college of this nation--therefore--no matter what one thinks--unless they have formed their own country inside a country--he is our president. Does that mean that we cannot be critical of him or his actions--no--we can--just as the liberal filmmaker Michael Moore was critical of President Bush. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
But for annirich to spout off, without proof or links to proof, is just another radical. Both sides of the aisle have radicals--just some are heard more than others.
Anne, like it or not, Obama IS YOUR President. Unless you are one of those illegals the GOP is always harping about. The democratic processed was fullilled and the man was duly elected the 44th Prez.
And your research is flawed, obviously...
Show some proof! put up or shut up.
Why are we not holding hearings on the uber rich who did this to our economy? Why are they still in charge, not in prison and we are being told that WE have to cut......after Wall Street stole all our money....screw that, get us our money back.
.......get off it.
Cuomo, Dodd and Frank screwed you. Not Wall Street.
Yes Kathryn, didn't you get the memo? It's time to turn the blame on the middle class and try to squeeze every unearned penny out of their greedy pockets. Those middle class jerks need to stop whining about the growing wealth gap in this country and start blaming themselves so the uber rich can get a larger piece of the pie that is rightfully theirs. Talking about the actual cause of our economic woes is so last year... get off it.
Read my lips, Wall Street screwed you.
And somehow Republicans are still huge supporters of Socialized Oil, by voting unanimously to subsidize the oil companies with our tax money.
Hypocrisy much?
Yep... how many billions could they trim off the budget by removing the subsities for oil companies, which are simply added to their profit margin?
Many of you should look and see who actually pays the income tax portion of the US Government. The rich.
The top 5% of the wage earners in this country pay 85% of all the income tax revenues to the national government.
47% of the people don't pay taxes--because they don't make enough or they get more back than they paid in.
Meaning--if you can do math--that 48% of the wage earners in this country pay only 15% of the actual revenue to the national government through their INCOME taxes.
In 2010, of the $899 billion dollars paid into "Income Tax"--$764 billion was paid by the top 5% of the wage earners in this country.
Meaning that the "middle class"--those picked on people--all 48% of them--covered the other $135 billion dollars that the national government received. So quit whining that the middle class is being taken advantage of. Because that is not true. And if you were smart enough or hired someone to do your taxes--like Warren Buffet--you to could pay less in taxes. It is the system that stinks and needs to be reformed. Not who pays what.
Wall St. is once again making a ton of speculating on oil and the American public is paying the price. Peter Moreci was on the Daily Rundown this morning and said that the high price of oil could cost America 600,000 jobs if prices stay high this year. Both parties are responsible for allowing them to run amok.
What's lost in your statements, the other peice of this puzzle is that the top 1% of income earners control almost 36% of the wealth in this country. The next 19 percent own an additional 50% (round about) so the top 20% of income brackets control 85% of the nation's wealth!
Source:
So, Bear, if we look at it from this perspective your argument seems to really lose steam.
My source link wont stay posted.
sociology.uscs.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
Ted -
Interesting.....True American and Safecracker were complaining up above here about their links not posting either, but unlike you, they automatically decided it was a vast liberal media conspiracy on the part of First Read and MSNBC to silence or censor them. In the interest of fairness to everyone, many of us on both sides have had the same problem over the last few months, and it's actually a fluky function of Newsvine that thinks you're a "newbie" and doesn't allow you to post links at first, no matter which side you're on. I know you've been around here for a while, so if you just e-mail them and remind them of that (as I had to do myself a while back) they'll hook you back up pretty fast.
Meanwhile, I tried cutting and pasting your link and that didn't work either - I went to the home page of the site and think this is what you wanted, but if not, let me know which particular section you wanted and I'll try it again:
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
Ted, Mid Michigan,
Taxes are not based upon wealth--they are based upon the income you earn or the things that you purchase. So even if more people have wealth, unless they are earning money on it, it is not taxable, nor should it be.
Our tax system is set up to cheat--which most people do. Until the system is reformed--there are always going to be those who complain that the rich don't pay enough. Well looking at the numbers we have--they do pay enough--85% of it. When 47% don't pay at all, yet use most of the governmental services--there is a problem. Instead of blaming the wealthy for all the problems in this country--maybe we should find solutions--such as reforming the tax code.
annirich--trying to understand your perspective. You say you're "deathly afraid" of (your non President). In what way? Pretty strong statement, how about giving some specifics as to why? If he's not your President then why do you bother making comments at all? Can't hold him accountable if you don't recognize him as President.
I think this is perfect time to consolidate our laws. A rewrite so to speak. We have this huge complex system and we constantly add work arounds, holes are found and exploited. I look at it like a windows program.
Personally I think we should focus on jobs and a steady scalpel applied to the deficit, while rewriting the complex legislation into a more real time format.
Lock down our boarders for this time let someone else be the worlds Nanny for a few years.
Shall we give our boarders breakfast?
Manchin wants attention from the President as a conservative Democrat. Won't happen. Congress needs to do its job. Bush didn't lead in these negotiations. He didn't even lead with the wars. Don't ask our President, who has national security issues to deal with, to do your job because you are to chicken to do them yourself Mr. Manchin. When he gets involved it will be because members of congress allowed a government shutdown and the grown up in the room has to come in to save the nation. By then Mr. Manchin, you won't be re-elected. Democrats will vote for a Democrat not a pseudo Democrat.
I'm hoping that the Democrats mount a primary challenge to Manchin
Ana,
I will agree with you on this one. Congress should do its job--not worry about who else is doing what. Do the job they were elected to do or get the heck out.
Thank you Feisty! House and Senate need to work this problem out!! Republicans hate the President so they are not going to listen to his great advice!!
Great advice Tommy?
What "advice" would that be? He's running up to Boston to raise some money for his re-election campaign, not giving any "advice" to anyone.
Well, I guess he could give "advice" to the teachers unions up there to contribute so he can give them even more payoffs and paybacks down the road.
The president must lead? And a Democrat is saying that?
Wow, he's out there in Wonderland, isn't he?
We've got a guy in the White House right now that made it because it was "history making", NOT because of a single leadership quality.
And Democrats want this guy to actually lead something?
The only think that I've ever seen Obama "lead" in is getting out idiotic statements that are either wrong, go against the nation itself, or point out that he's be lying...again.
President Obama is one of the greatest leaders and President this country has ever had.
That is a joke, right?????
You don't have to stand in front of the T.V. and tell people that you're "the decider" to lead and get things done. The last Congress was historic in the number of things they got through in spite of republican obstructionism. Imagine what they could have accomplished if Republicans cared about people other than the rich? It boggles the mind.
Amen to that SB.
Good post Tommy, the House and the Senate need to put their jobs on the line ....................budget is their job...........and I want my money back that the Wall Street scammers stole.
Kathryn, would you like to have some of that MediCare money back that you've paid in also?
After all, Obama and the Democrats took 500 Billion of it to pay for ObamaCare.
Oh wait, you want both, don't you? You want the 500 Billion stolen from senior citizens to pay for your ObamaCare, and then when you retire, you want that same 500 Billion to be available for your MediCare.
And of course you don't really care about that because you've been told to whine and cry about "Wall Street scammers", like that actually means something.
Don't get Cheryl started about her precious MediCare. Cheryl is a staunch defender of single payer government run health care so you better not make any suggestion about how to make it more efficient. It is actually amazing how far Cheryl will go to deffend and support single payer goverment run health care.
Hey Cheryl--single payer health care-awesome!
 I think the Republicans have to be realistic when deciding what to cut and cutting education, border security, homeland security, and economic investments are not benificial to the country. Cutting taxes for the wealth, bailing out wall street at tax payer expense and then saying the middle class should get rid of its benefits because we can no longer pay for them is not the road to recovery or to a balanced budget. If the government shuts down and/or the middle class is asked to foot the bill for wall streets mistakes then this will be a short two years for the Republicans in the House as we the people will send them packing. Around 42% of the people voted in 2010 and around 62% of the people voted in 2008 ... Republicans should remember that when they advance a narrow agenda against those who work for a living.
How to grow the economy, remain competitive, and eliminate the deficit:
1. Legislatively remove the anti-trust exemption for insurance, The McCarran-Ferguson Act.
2.. Legislatively restrict the wetlands definition of "navigable waters of the United States in the Clean Water Act.
3. Fund and begin construction of power generation and water supply projects necessary to meet future population and industrial demands.
4. Remove all geographic restrictions on oil and natural gas drilling, and use the power of federal money transfers to the States to prevent States and local governments from interfering with drilling.
5.. Remove environmental restrictions and environmental and social impact requirements for all infrastructure and utility construction for the next 10 years.
6.Cut Federal budget by 10% excluding defense, starting with those duplicative items identified in the 3/1 GAO report, however, maintain current spending for infrastructure construction, repair and upgrade for the next 5 years. Repeal the Davis-Bacon Act.
7. Reduce corporate tax rates by 50%. Reduce Corporate tax rates by 70% on private utilities and transport companies.
8. Reinstitute significant tax and assistance payments for residential and commercial alternative energy instillations, particularly focusing on residential solar. Use Commerce Clause to force all electrical utilities to be reverse metering.
9. Subsidies the further development of electric and hybrid electric cars. Provide significant tax breaks and incentives for the purchase of same, particularly when combined with the purchase of a residential solar instillation within two years of one another. This is no longer a simple market issue, but one of national security as the time to substitution is longer than the economy can withstand when confronted with a supply side shock
10. Eliminate the Ethanol subsidy for any and all processes using foodstuffs. Redirect monies to nuclear and coal. Streamline regulation of new construction of nuclear power plants and provide incentives for same. Open Yucca Mountain as originally agreed.
11. Eliminate any power of the EPA to regulate Carbon.
12. Use the power of the Federal purse to eviscerate Kelo v. City of New London, 545 U.S. 469 (2005) and Tahoe-Sierra Preservation Council, Inc. v. Tahoe Regional Planning Agency, 535 U.S. 302 (2002),
13. Repeal the Community Reinvestment Act.
14. Hold congressional investigations into the roll of the Community Reinvestment Act, Freddie and Fannie in inflating demand and thus prices resulting in the collapse of the real estate market.
15. Build a wall embedded with sensors and toped with razor wire along both our borders, beginning with the southern one. In the name of national security remove all environmental restrictions and environmental and social impact requirements for the construction of same.
16 Pass legislation that all jurisdictions receiving federal monies of any sort are required to enforce all of the laws of the land, including enforcement of federal immigration laws.
17. Restrict the collective bargaining power of State civil service unions in line with the 1978 Federal Civil Service Reform Act
18. Scrap the tax code and adopt a flat-tax that will build the size of the pie (and thus tax revenues) for everyone instead of the Obama class warfare of trying to redistribute a shrinking one.
I'll vote for you! These are measures by which everyone could live but I assure you that the Progressive/Socialist Democrats (we use to call them Communists) wouldn't hear of it. They want our country destroyed and Obama, our dictator, will stop at nothing to do exactly that.
Newmalthus.....There will be NO actual intellectual debate on any of your points from the left, even if they do understand what you're saying.
Instead there will be comment after comment about how hate filled you are, or how you hate the poor, or how illegals are victims and you have no heart.
But never, and I mean NEVER, will anyone that disagrees with you have an intellectual discussion with you.
I'm actually a very very smart liberal and will gladly educate you with my intellect.
Right Annirich,
At one time, being refered to as a Democrat carried some connotation of honor, of righteous behavior.
Now, being called a Democrat is like being called a traitor, an idiot, an a$$hole.
a__hole, maybe... but I take issue with being called a traitor and an idiot.
NewMalthus
Can you explain the benefits of any of the 18 talking points you quoted?
Salt Grass: Yes, all 18 actually.
Well please do.
Erik...do you actually believe the idiocy that you just preached?
There are NO "tax cuts" for the wealthy, they pay the highest income tax rate of anyone in the nation, not counting the second highest corporate tax in the world, a massive capital gains tax, state taxes, local taxes, and every fee, fine, penalty, regulatory cost, and everything else that Democrats could think to pile on them.
And EVERY tax that they get will be passed DIRECTLY on to you, so I don't know why you actually think that raising taxes even MORE on them is all that wonderful an idea.
The middle class is ALREADY footing the bill for everything in this country, or haven't you been paying attention?
You should remember that it's NOT Republicans or Democrats that win elections, but Independents do. And right now, Democrats and Obama in particular are not all that popular with Independents, or weren't you paying attention last November. Your numbers are a bunch of crap.
You can blame Republicans all you want, but in the end, it's been Democrats that have run 1.2, 1.3, and 1.65 Trillion dollar deficits for three budgets. It's been Democrats that have been in charge when the economy went from going along smoothly to the worst recession since the Depression, 16 months AFTER Democrats took over Congress. It's been Democrats that have passed the largest spending bills in our history, borrowed the most money in our history, and taxed this nation to insolvency.
But blame Republicans, it makes you feel better.
Let's be clear though. The richest have the highest tax rate, but it has gone down considerably considering how much richer the rich have gotten compared with how poor the other 98% have gotten. 40 years ago the average CEO got 70 times the salary of his workers. Now it's around 1,000 times. Class warfare indeed, and the rich have won.
And yet, they insist on screeching that an extra 3% with the Bush Tax cuts expired would be "class warfare socialism". Incredible.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/business/economy/14leonhardt.html
"There is no question that the wealthy pay a higher overall tax rate than any other group. That is an American tradition. But there is also no question that their tax rates have fallen more than any other group’s over the last three decades. The only reason they are paying more taxes than in the past is that their pretax incomes have risen so rapidly — which hardly seems a great rationale for a further tax cut."
In other words, "We are making a ton more money than we used to, so our taxes are higher. We need another tax cut please!" Thanks for your sacrifice for your country. *sigh*
Good post CherylLM,
This was supposed to be a jobless recovery, and it looks like that's just what we have. This is the new normal. This is the life we can expect living under the administration now in Washington.
In fact, this may be the good times, right now, before the major economic collapse to follow. I know how to save for a rainy day. I know how to economize and prepare for catastrophic illnesses, or high interest rates, or high gas prices.
What I don't know how to prepare for.....is a worldwide economic collapse.
Clotho, and what happens when the tax rate on the "rich" goes down? Why employment goes UP and we collect record taxes.
It happened under Bush, it happened under KENNEDY, it happened under Reagan, and it happened under Coolidge.
In the 20's tax rates were cut from 70% to LESS than 25%.....Revenues collected went up 61%. Under Kennedy tax rates were cut from 90% to 70%, even that small tax cut raised revenues by 62%. Under Reagan, revenues went up by 54%, under Bush revenues went up by over 30%.
When you RAISE the taxes on the so called "rich", all they do is put the money in places that cannot be taxed. When you LOWER the taxes on them, they bring more money out because while they still have to pay the highest taxes in the nation, they pay less than what they would have had to before.
Commone sense actually works when it comes to taxes.
However, to people like you, taxes can't be high enough on the "rich" or low enough on the "poor".
Clotho: THe NYTimes is no longer an objective source for anything.
Last time I looked at the IRS numbers, the top 3% of wage-earners in this country pay slightly more than 50% of all personal income taxes collected. Where's the middle class? Obviously, not contributing their fair share.
CherylLM
Employment went up under Bush? Not!
D-Man -
It is very hard to increase employment when you already have full employment.
Considering that Bush, with a republican Congress, ran with a consistent unemployment rate of under 5% and full employment is classed as 5% and under, your argument is flawed. It is very hard to increase employment levels when everyone is already working who wants to work.
The better question would be -
Why did unemployment increase once we got a democrat controlled Congress? And why did it get even worse once Obama became president?
But then, you might have to reason things out then - and I doubt you'd like what you learned.
Mar 1, 2011 ... GAO: Billions Wasted in Duplicate Federal Programs ... Five divisions within the Department of Transportation account for 100 different ...
spectator.org/blog/2011/03/01/gao-billions-wasted-in-duplica
Get rid of these BS duplicate departments that is costing us billiions of dollars every year to do the SAME job.
Obama's "proclamation" in '08 (read them well; they're very 'telling') "this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal..this was the time we came togerhter to REMAKE this great nation"...........uh............scary stuff from this guy. This guy who has NEVER actually DONE, OWNED, MANAGED, LEAD, RUN, anything and yet the stupid, stupid people of this country put him in the highest office in the land so now it's got to be the rest of us who put a stop to him and these Socialist Democrats especially the UNIONS the strong-arm of these damn Dems.
Anni - And there seems to be not much time left. All that much less when the Socialist Democrats best weapon is a "white person guilt trip" Not much to work or compromise with.
Don't forget. "We are the ones we have been waiting for"
Government waste, fraud and abuse to the tune of $200 billion is reported by Fox ... is doing with American tax dollars. ... of some of the duplications found and ...
www.examiner.com/political-transcripts-in-national/sen-coburn-200-billion-government-waste-report-make-us-look-like-jackasses
How About we cut all fedral budgets by 40%. Repeale the .5 trillon bush tax cut. We need to remove the cap on ss tax . This will work but the GOP has no balls.
how about you actually looking AT the federal budget and the income versus spending, then we'll discuss it.
Remember, you can display a maximum of five data series at once. ... At the top and bottom of the dropdown only years ending in “0” are shown. .... US Government Spending As Percent Of GDP Fiscal Years 1903 to 2010. Year, GDP-US ...
www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_20th_century_chart.html
Yep, a $6 billion cut is really something! I thought the republicans compromised when they lowered their cut to $61 billion from $100 billion. If one were to believe reids fear mongering about the loss of 700000 government jobs and reported big drop in GDP, perhaps a review of bernankes comments under interrogation last week is in order.
Even using reids jobs loss number WRT $61 billion cuts may prove enlightening as those cuts will stimulate the economy by an additional 9 billion dollars using liberal democart numbers.
What was so bad about obamas bipartisan deficit cutting plan? Sure it was harsh and probably honest. Seems that the democrats want to kick the can down the street the farthest compared to the republicans. I say pass the republicans $61 billion and let obama veto. then everyone knows how everyone stands
PS if the president is a "Leader" why was he not "leading" in 2010 when he allowed his congress to waive the budget without calling them on the carpet for not doing their JOB? Thats not a leader.
Separation of powers. The President, as the head of the Executive branch, cannot force the legislature to do anything. The same reason President Obama can want Gitmo closed, but Congress can vote not to fund the closing and relocation of prisoners.
While a dictatorship sometimes seems like an easier and less frustrating method of government, it places too much power in the hands of too few. Our present form of government, despite the frustrating manner in which it operates, at least ensures that the power is distributed somewhat. (Citizens United notwithstanding). In addition, the two-term limit applied to the Presidency helps to ensure that one person/ party won't stay in power indefinitely.
There actually were legitimate reasons for Congress to pass shorter, stop-gap budgets, but I didn't see anyone questioning it until just recently.
As the president he still holds the right to give his input to congress. In 2010 he never once came out and asked that they do a budget. Which FYI is congress main job.
Ah, Clotho,
No, the president can't TELL the legislature to do anything. He can urge them to do something, and he has the power to keep them on the job seven days a week if he sees fit, till they actually do something. This was done under President Wilson.
FYI that 700,000 is coming out of the BDO report and is not really "lost" of jobs.
Jake
Even Bernanke says that 700,000 jobs will not be lost.
The thing is, they may be 'lost' in the public sector, but they would be gained by the private sector. this would be a win as far as I can see.
Unless, of course, those 'workers' can't make it inthe private sector.
Deceptive headline: "Manchin Rips Obama"? It doesn't seem that way to me. However, I don't think Manchin or anyone in Congress gets to put all the responsibility on the President. It takes a majority (if not a super majority) to get anything done.
CherylLM
You show a lack of understanding on just about eveverything you write, but I will do my best to educate you. The high corporate tax rate is all smoke and mirrors. To simplify it for you lets say you earn $100,000 dollars and pay 10% tax then you would pay $10,000. Now lets say you pay a 20% tax but get a $20,000 deduction on your taxes. Lets see that is $20,000 in taxes minus deduction is $0.00 tax bill. Which tax bracket would you rather be in? ExxonMobil paid $0.00 in taxes in 2009 yet have profits over 45 billion. You actually almost admit this in you response ... you said corporations pay to much then you say the middle class already foots the bill ... notice the logical inconsistency in your argument?
My numbers are crap ... of course they are not my numbers but lets not let facts get in the way of right wing ideology.
The Great Depression II was prevented by the Democrats with not one vote from Republicans. That is why it is not call the GDII but instead the great recession. The economy was hemorrhaging jobs before Obama was President and since the stimulus it has been growing every month. Not fast enough but economist said the stimulus was to small (remember 1/3 of it was tax cuts not spending).
Find comfort in your conservative fantasy, if it makes you feel better.
Erik1976,
Prevented the Great Depression II??
Kind of remins me of the fellow selling tiger repellent in Illinois. When asked if it works, he replies....don't see any tigers, do you??
Don't see any Great Depression II, Do you??
Apparently you were not paying attention in 2008 when Wall Street came running to Congress and both Repubs and Dems put ideology aside to bail them out because everyone realized a Great Depression was coming and the only thing big enough to stop it was the government. Even after the bank bailouts the economy was still tanking and only through the stimulus was that prevented. No tigers just not blinded by right wing anti-government non-sense.
The Democrats prolonged the Great Depression.
Erik, to make a claim that "Democrat prevented the Great Depression II" IS crap.
That's all you on the left do is make these claims that are NOT backed up by any facts, or any truth.
And you say that I show a "lack of understanding"?????
I LIVE out here, and I SEE what's going on everyday. The so called poor get more and more and more and more, with no contribution from them whatsoever. I've actually lived in the projects and seen for myself what's going on, have you?
I see what I have to pay for groceries, clothes, gas, electricity, and just about everything else RISING because of over-regulation, over-taxation, and over-bearing garbage from Democrats.
The economy was "hemorrhaging" because Democrats PROTECTED Fannie and Freddie as they bought up hundreds of billions of dollars of bad mortgages and sold them as "securities" to banks. And when those "securities" came due, they were worthless. Fannie and Freddies were the DIRECT cause of the housing bubble, and it's collapse. And today, they continue to do the same things that they were doing before because Democrats REFUSED to regulate them. As of today Fannie and Freddie have lost over 170 Billion dollars of taxpayer money, are still losing billions of taxpayer dollars every month, are still buying up toxic mortgages, and have been given a 400 Billion dollar "line of credit" from Geithner. That 400 Billion dollars is taxpayer money....MY money. And they are backing 5.2 Trillion dollars in mortgages right now, ALL of them backed by taxpayer dollars.
You precious Democrats who "saved" us from a Great Depression are the CAUSE of the recession in the first damn place!
When there is an impass like this, it is time for the president to step in. Although not a big fan of Manchin, I think he has a point on this one. The Democrats and Republicans are so far apart that someone has to step in. As president the outcome will eventually fall on his shoulders.
I also think the Republicans should be called out on their desire to impose their social ideaolgy through spending cuts rather than looking for inefficiencies that have already been identified and starting from there. Republicans were voted for fiscal conservatism not social ideaology.
Reps Social Idealogy?? Clarify
defunding planned parenthood because of abortion. cutting CPB because they don't like the message. cutting EPA so much they won't be able enforce current regulation (maybe not so much social but definitely ideaoligcal). The biggest cuts come from a specific agenda instead of from efficiencies. If the Republican make sensible cuts and not just hack department they don't like, I could have more respect.
33662...are you nuts? You think the taxpayers should pay for abortions? the EPA should be SHUT DOWN! Get off you Socialism.......be RESPONSIBLE for yourself.
If it weren't for clean air, I wouldn't be able to see my neighbors house. I live in Pittsburgh and West Virgina and Ohio coal plants spew polution that ends up in our city. No EPA no clean air. Without regulation there is a positive incentive for companies to polute. Their has to be a point where regulation is good and a tipping point where it goes too far. Just cutting the EPA budget ignores the whole issue. Planned parenthood does more than counsel people about pregnancy they also distribute contreceptive and help with many other womens health issues.
annierich---BS. You can pay for the abortion now or let the government raise the child for 18 years. That word, "socialism"--you folks on the right like to sling it around. We've been a mixed economy for 70 years--get over it! How in the hell could socialism fail us any more than our brand of capitalism has?