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Subscribe to RSSOver the weekend, liberal filmmaker Michael Moore said the fight in Wisconsin has “aroused a sleeping giant” for union rights across the country.
But the fight may have aroused a different “sleeping giant” -- the activist liberal Wisconsin electorate, which was dormant in the 2010 midterms.
A poll out today by the Wisconsin Policy Research Institute shows President Obama’s and Republican Gov. Scott Walker’s approval ratings heading in opposite directions.
Obama’s approval rating sits at a comfortable 53%-42%, above the national average, and a nine-point improvement in the poll from November. (In November -- after the Democrats' shellacking in the midterms -- the president’s approval in the poll was split at 44%-43%.)
By contrast, Walker’s approval rating is upside down – with 43% approving and 53% disapproving of how he’s handling his job. Walker’s “strongly disapprove” is a sky-high 45%; Obama’s is 26%. Walker’s favorability rating – also 43%-53% -- mirrors his approval. His negative rating is up 18 points from November, when his rating was 45%/35%. His “strongly unfavorable” is up to 41% from a “very unfavorable” rating of just 19% in November.
Wisconsin and the Midwest will be key once again to whether President Obama wins or loses a second term. Wisconsin has been something of a swing state, with Democrat John Kerry winning it in 2004 by just 0.38 percentage points -- the closest margin of any state in the presidential contest. Barack Obama won it by almost 14 percentage points in 2008. But in 2010, Republicans made big gains, taking over the governor’s seat, a U.S. Senate seat, two House seats, and several state legislative seats. And former Wisconsin GOP chairman Reince Priebus was able to use the party’s success there as a key selling point for his ascension to chairman of the Republican National Committee.
The fight over unions’ collective-bargaining rights has become national news, and has drawn protestors in the tens of thousands. Views of public employee unions are very favorable – 59% have a favorable opinion of them, just 34% view them negatively. Teachers have a 70%-25% fav-unfav; teachers’ unions have a lower, but still strong 59%-36%.
The poll also finds that by a 65%-33% margin, Wisconsin residents want Walker to compromise on the current standoff.
Midterm elections usually draw the most activist voters, and about 30% fewer voters turn out in them. In Wisconsin in 2010, just shy of 2.2 million people voted. That’s about 27% fewer than in 2008, when almost three million voted.
Members of the Tea Party were among the most enthusiastic voters in 2010. But the group is viewed unfavorably in this poll by a plurality of Wisconsin residents -- 38% view them positively, 44% negatively.
And even Democrats in the state legislature, with all 14 state senators fleeing the state to deny the GOP majority a quorum, enjoy a net-positive rating of 50%-42%, higher than Senate Republicans at 46%-46%.
A lot can happen between now and November 2012, but Republicans have to be concerned that Walker, who has said he refuses to compromise on his budget, may have overstepped.
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This goes back to the old saying: Power to the PEOPLE!
I've got a pocket full of quarters because, I can't wait to hear the old poll dancers spin on these numbers!
They have indeed awoken a sleeping giant and there is no stuffing this genie back into the bottle!
Stand UNITED Gang of 14! The people are on your side!
The sleeping giant is awake, rubbing the sleep out of it's eyes, and will be very active in 2012. Major miscalculation on the GOP/TP's part.
You better compromise Walker, I hear the recall jingling in the distance.
Major miscalculation on the part of Gov. Walker. I am CONVINCED that the Governor thought that the Dems would just 'sit there and take it' while he pushed his 'Budget Repair Bill' through. The Governor - and his handlers - GROSSLY underestimated the Dems.
But then again, this Governor has poor handlers because he got PUNKED pretty well by someone proporting to be a Koch Brother.
With the Chief of Staff's lack of covering the Governor's flank by NOT screening the call, I can see how this Governor has painted himself into a corner.
I hear the sound of BACKPEDALING from every GOP operative and politico from Gov. Walker...
Wonder how the Recall is going against the Wisconsin Senate Republicans? And Feisty my thanks to the fine folks of Illinois for putting out the welcome mat to Wisconsin and Indiana Democrats.
Sad to say Eric Walker is safe for a year under Wisconsin's constitution, but I do believe there are 8 Republican State Senators in the cross hairs (sic) of a Re-Call.
Over the weekend, liberal filmmaker Michael Moore said the fight in Wisconsin has “aroused a sleeping giant” for union rights across the country.....yea buddy, that's who I'd really listen to....Michael Moore. Are you kidding me? Now there's a really intelligent guy.....he's a 'measure' of NOTHING! Geezee pete people. And by the responses I would guess there are some WI people who are just about on his level with taxpayers paying Progressive/Socialist Dems approx $50,000@ to run and hide like little girls
Eric-913730
You better compromise Walker, I hear the recall jingling in the distance.
Naw- that jingling you hear is the ringer on Walker's phone. Incoming call from Koch. Seems they want their money back.
Some of us have been consistently saying that ever since election day, the polls have shown that the GOP/TP officeholders are not "listening to the people."
Gov. Walker's obstinate position is not earning him admiration. His overall concept of governing is not to govern. The same is true of the Tea Party officeholders in D.C.
The President is generally performing well in office, despite the obstructionism of far-right ideologues.
Regardless of where you stand, I can't back any party or situation that promotes one party to "run and hide". If this is the new system it is broken. I didn't like it when the Reps did it in TX, and don't like it now.
Can you all imagine the outcry if the Reps would have done this during Obama's health-care debate (I realize that this situation would be different, but....).
As a principle, we cannot have a party running and hiding. Regardless of the why or protecting of whom. If this is supported, I fear for the direction that this is moving.
The citizens have the papers ready for the recall of 8 TP/Rethugs State senators. Will be filed on 3/8/11, a recall election can be called by mid May. They have to wait till next Jan. for Walker, the dictator wannabe, but he's next. Yes, they have awakened the sleeping giant, and we're gonna take our country back, from the Tea Baggers, the Koch. Bros., and anyone else that wants to take our country back to the dark ages. On, Wisconsin. Proud mother of 3 Univ. of Wis., Madison grads, who appreciate what a good teacher can do.
Michael Moore says, who cares what a jackass like Moore says. I think he's the sleeping giant (mountain of blubber) that has awoke.
What is it with politicians (on both sides)? No matter how much history should tell them otherwise, they always overreach on their promises. People wanted Walker to work on fixing the public pension plan. He could have done that by increasing contribution rates and lengthening age to retirement. If he had done that he would be fine. Instead he picks a fight by trying to totally bust the unions ala Reagan. Walker, you are not Reagan and your situation is nothing like his. You deserve the face rubbing you are now getting for being too stupid to realize people want change not chaos.
Gang of 14? Yeah, a gang of 14 bums that runs out of state rather doing the job they were elected to do.
The Republicans DID run and hide. They just hid in plain sight, behind the filibuster rules.
I freakin' predicted this.
Listen up, foaming at the mouth, so called 'conservatives,' this is what your insanity provides for the right wing....nothing useful. Try remembering that some of the finer points of being an actual, thinking, conservative, include protecting certain rights as well as things like fiscal responsibility. All Walker needed to do was go about negotiating the old fashioned way and cut the budget. And he'd have the support. His 'inability' to negotiate is a lame excuse (because he could of) to go after collective bargaining rights which, sorry, most people support.
It isn't rocket science. People support collective bargaining rights, yet want the budget cut and don't support unions getting a free ride. So...you...cut the budget and don't worry about collective bargaining.....like every other conservative governor has done, is doing, and will continue to do. Yes, that means do not legistate against ANY of the current collective bargaining rights, no matter how damn silly they are. Just stop the money. And do it across the board (firing 1500 teachers might be fun, but will also lose you more votes than just moderating salaries acrosst the board).
@!$%# it he should compromise and then fire 6000 of them to keep the budget in tact..... that's the fact, it sucks both ways......
If there is no god damn money then there is no god damn money. when are Democrats going to realize that? And when are you Republicans going to realize that you cant go ripping benefits from those that think they deserve it?
Both sides are nuts.....
cdahl,
They did run and hide. It was called SECERT HOLDS. I've no sympathy for the republican strong arming on this one. With no filibuster rules in place in Wisconcin, this was as close to a filibuster as the Dems could pull. So Go Gang of 14!
The tyrnany of a temporary majority could not be allowed to destroy the rights of workers.
This has become nothing less then the Culture Wars round two! Going after Collective bargaining, worker rights, heating fuel allocations for the old and poor, Big Bird and Planed Parenthood... all will in the end amount to nothing more (and in the scheme of things) - pocket change! Nationally a 30% reduction in the Defense Budget (The Defense Budget doubled under Bush to fight Daddy' War) would save this country nearly 3 TRILLION DOLLARS over ten years. Eliminating Oil Subsidies (which go to the most profitable companies on the planet) would save 450 BILLION over the next ten years. But these "culture warriors" would rather pretend they are balancing the books on the backs of teachers, snow plow drivers, sanitation workers, cops and fireman, mothers, the working poor and the Middle Class then inconvenience or cause their corporate handlers any discomfort. It was the Banks, Wall Street, tax breaks for billionaire and an incompetent Republican President who brought one of the greatest economies on the planet to its knees and they have guile and malice to turn around and BLAME IT ON THE VICTIMs!
and its a shame he dosent have the money that the koch brothers have....
At a certain point, the American people are going to have to wake up to the fact that the republican party has only the interests of the rich at heart. Look at their platform -- on every single issue, they take whatever position would benefit the rich.
They don't have regular, working people's interests at heart. They don't have the middle class interests at heart. And they certainly don't care about the poor or the disadvantaged. You're exactly right, Tank Carson. The amount of money we are spending on the military is absolutely insane. If we just brought defense spending down to where it was before George W Bush took office, our deficit would disappear in a few years.
Ultimately, though, there are more of us by a long shot. I hope this controversy proves to be the catalyst that starts a new national movement.
Fielden,
sorry to disagree, but that is not running. It is using a political procedure. (And one I disagree with as well). And if you wish, I will put them in the same boat. November, 2008 the people voted in the Democrats. We ought to let them govern. If you eliminated the filibuster you may get better cooperation in this polarized nation. Let them get together and vote. It is what the people whom actually think their vote counts, voted for. (Careful what you wish for).
In 2010 the people voted for Republicans. We should let them pass policy without filibusterering. Again, careful what you wish for.
However, I completely disagree with this Run, Hide, Delay policy. In the business world you would be fired. And if you kept the policy as a company you would shortly realize that your competition would out strategize you.
Liberal movie maker(s) and alike who have this supposed passion for the common man, are you kidding me. They love the limelight, name recoginition and the adualtion all the sheep that are followers of hype put into their simple little lives for these individual and similarly athletes. Get a grip people. Peronally, I admire teachers, firefighters and police officers but times change and we all have to have a wakeup call that while I have to work for 40+ years and take responsibility for my own future and care these indiviuals must now do the same. That is the crux of the whole matter. Participate in the "free market system" and stop crying about your needs and what your "rights" are. I do not see anywhere in the constitution where a pension at 55 for life with healthcare paid for and any number of other PRIVLAGES is guaranteed in the Bill fo Rights.
thats ok, i'll be lmao off soon enough when we see all the union drools hitting the UE lines with the rest of us. not to mention Ohio just wizzed a anti union bill, even stiffer than the one walker proposed, and just 1 post on that by nbc, lol. its ok tho, you guys keep up the fight in Wis, meantime, your rights will be stripped in the other states..... just waiting for the union drools to bawl "FOUL", as they go crying to the UE line, lol.
Daredevils heisting the crown jewels from under our noses is a favorite bad-guy Hollywood plot. And we might put any serious thoughts on hold until a coupla good guys get hurt. In this movie, Governor Walker plays a bully who misleads then opens fire in plain sight on the electorate of WI.
Unions in WI came to the table and agreed to all the fiscal deals Walker wanted. That didn't end it, so we know the bottom line is not about money. The heist is about intimidating/demonizing and then downsizing workers in public service jobs particularly teachers, in Wisconsin and across the nation with a view to privatization. It is really a test balloon to see how far and whether it is possible.
Congress members in Wisconsin and Union leaders everywhere: say NoNoNoNoNo to Walker and this bash-the-people agenda.
The only thing the unions in this country have helped is China. We've priced ourselves right out of the competition people. A nation of middle-men will only fly for so long.
And the fact we can't fire a teacher for doing a sh'tty job is just the other end of the @!$%#e state of affairs the unions have put us in.
Is this the same poll that oversampled union households? Is this the same poll that oversampled democrat households? Is this the same poll that asked all adults and not "likely voters" their opinion?
The real poll was held in November. The real poll installed this governor and his GOP majority, because the real voters wanted change from the tax and spend status quo. Wisconsin, Michigan, New Jersey, and other blue states voted for GOP governors and legislators to get their states' fiscal houses in order.
There is another change coming November 2012. The GOP will win the US Senate. All we need now is a presidential candidate that will articulately lay out conservative principles.
Any of you care to address why the former Governor sat on his arse and did nothing about the fiscal mess in WI, which is what led to Walker being elected in the first place. Applying that principal would be right in line with blaming Bush for the mess Obama inherited.
i suppode that Gov. Walker should just give up and let the state go bankrupt. then when the teachers and other goverment workers can't be paid or their retirement benifits are not paid then maybe some of you hardnosed DEMS will be really HAPPY. P.S. I belonged to a union in Michigan Local 724 AFL-CIO. because of the union demands the companey I worked for moved out of state and landed in Wichita Falls, Texas.
newoneironaut wrote:
Gang of 14? Yeah, a gang of 14 bums that runs out of state rather doing the job they were elected to do.
=================
Part of the job they were elected to do is to uphold the constitution and laws of Wisconsin, since Wisconsin labor laws REQUIRE that Gov. Walker bargain in good faith with the unions, the Dems are taking the only action available to them to stop Gov. Walker's lawless actions.
so which is the party of NO? They hide even with poorly conducted polls state that they are winning. The gang of 14 and Charlie S are both pathetic loosers
Tank;
Good post - right on the money - pun intended.
@ logical,
The unions are not responsible for jobs going overseas. Free Trade that both political parties support is. Many can argue that the benefits are excessively high for people in a Union, specifically in the public sector. This is because the private benefits have suffered due to the competitive nature of free trade.
Teachers, for the vast majority are significantly underpaid. They have been transformed from educators to day care providers with no discipline recourse. Granted, there are a few bad apples, but again the vast majority deserve our respect.
But to answer the China thing...Start a tariff program, create revenue and a lot of this all goes away. This will make some a little ballistic here but.... Reagan's trickle down theory works in manufacturing. And is working extremely well in todays world.....In China.
The sleeping giant does not neww the democrates doing much...when the sleeping giants are the voters..who put these folks into office...both parties. Hope fullly both parties will wake up and do their respective jbs and stop all the political lies coming from them both and use some common sense for a change..if any of them have any.
Ron,
Wake up the sleeping giant?
Certainly woke up the giant union political machine and the liberal media. The people? I doubt it.
I have been surprised by how many people, people who don't pay the attention to politics the way we do here at FR, are pretty clueless about Wisconsin. Heck Obama got slapped down by Walker for not being up to speed on collective bargaining.
Most Americans don't like politics - the bias and rancor. They avoid it still have they have to pay attention. Do you think Americans are more up to speed on Walker / Wisconsin, or the latest Charlie Sheen stuff.
Whatever happens with Walker doesn't really matter in the long run. He is doing the right thing and it is only a matter of time before the people wake up and realize the harm public service unions do to the states and the corrupt relationship between unions and the Dems. When the truth gets out, they realize how privleged the unions are compared to the tax payer - they won't be happy with the Dems/unions.
I don't believe it was run and hide so much as standing up for the rights of the people of WI. If they stayed, the Republican Steamroller would have flattened any voice they have. If this is an example of what we can expect for the future from Republicans, it reeks of too much power in too few hands.
Count on it. With all that money Walker will save, none of it will result in higher quality of life for WI's taxpayers who are footing all the bills. This is the same Walker who'll turn around after he gets what he wants and stuff wads of money into those who don't need it. He'll turn around and privatize as much of what he cut as possible. Republicans are notorious for their addiction to small, secret insider government. When they privatize your school systems, that's the time it's all over for democracy.
The real skinny is how much all of this privatization is really costing compared to paying government workers. It's total BS that privatization saves money. Private companies hired by the government pay their workers ten time what public employees earn and the profit margins for these companies are far higher. We just never see their bills. Does anyone think Halliburton or XE, hired by the government pays their employees what public employees earn?
The only reason Walker is going after public employees is because it's easier to use them as scapegoats. Any money Walker saves, count on it, some private crony vendor hired to do the government's work will make that evaporate.
Gary, you are just plain delusional. Typical junk, attack the polls.
The polls from election day forwad have been saying the same thing as this poll reports - "the people" are NOT behind the Tea Party. It's a minority faction to begin with in elected office, and come 2012, it's going right back in the Dumpster. Some, perhaps sooner, given the recall movement now underway in Wisconsin, and quite possibly repeated elsewhere.
Moo, moo, Gary, that's all you have to say.
If people loose their right to bargain, its the same as living in some third world country. America was founded on principles that are now under attack. If the Koch Suckers win in Wisconsin, guess what - third world here we come. So, we the American voter is going to solve this problem. Walker, get your walking shoes ready - your layoff papers are being prepared. Its ashamed we got to get others before we get to you. Koch Suckers = 2 votes - Wisconsinites = Millions of Vote. Walker, you not very smart.
Republicans. Can't live with em; can't kill 'em either. But you can LAUGH at them, no problem at all.
Never satisfied....cut spending, but don't mess with my pocketbook! I think it's time we all realized that we are all going to have to sacrifice to get this country back on track. Labor unions have had control for so many years and they lobby to keep that control with promise of votes. Sorry, but this is just part of the problem we have in our country.
There needs to be spending cuts across the board....for everyone.....including tax increases for the wealthy.
Rahm it down their throats Gov. Walker. The sooner you get it behind you, the better. See President Obama.
There is not doubt that this fight is hurting Gov. Walker , however he stand for to do the right thing, not the most popular thing. This is why our nation is going down, for doing popular things. Democrats do not feel so happy about it Gov. approval , because 67 % disapprove democrat tactics to uphold the vote. An about Obama, yes his popularity still high , he is cool, but when people are ask about how he handle , the economy, foreignaffairs and energy policy his numbers are way below 52% disapprove . 67% favor offshore drilling, 54 %for repeal Obamacare.
kaara, the union is made of working people - PEOPLE that have come together in a singular voice.
Don't get it twisted - we all have to do our parts to get out of this Republican mess created under Bush and We The People(Union Members) have agreed. Oh yea, don't you remember, the REPUBLICANS didn't want tax increases for the wealthy. Ummmm
Aquatone gets the funny line for the day.
@ Ewert,
It is a quandary. Take the argument aside for a moment. We can't have parties (either of them) leaving the state or going somewhere to avoid a vote. There has to be a better way. If you don't want to call it run and hide, fine. Call it "avoiding the vote."
Again, keep the details out of it, and apply the same strategy to every controversial vote. To me that gets scary, and I believe that it could result to mini-shut downs of government everywhere.
"The polls from election day forwa(r)d have been saying the same thing as this poll reports - 'the people' are NOT behind the Tea Party. It's a minority faction to begin with in elected office, and come 2012, it's going right back in the Dumpster." Imagine a union goon calling the Tea Party a "minority faction." Fewer than 7% of people belong to a union today. You didn't "awaken" a sleeping giant with your protests; it was awakened last November, and it spoke loudly: Stop with the profligate spending and greed. Those days are gone forever. All WI is asking for is a 3% contribution to your pension and 12% contribution to health coverage. I dare say most Wisconsinites would jump at a deal like that.
The main problem here is that the American people don't like and don't tolerate a government entity dictating terms to them without their input. This is true if it is the President, Congress, or a Governor. The people of the United States of America like their issues to be decided on the basis of a popularity contest. That's how politics in this country runs. Gov. Walker is ignoring this and trying to "hold the line" or some similar sentiment. It's the "hold the line, even if it's unpopular" sentiment that made Bush and Cheney unpopular in their second term, which caused people to vote in a mainly Democrat congress in 2006, and then vote overwhelmingly Democrat in 2008. This is also the sentiment that the Democratic congress held when pushing through their agendas during Obama's first two years as President, which is why the people voted mostly Republican in 2010. The people don't like to feel as though they are having government policy crammed down their throat.
No matter which party is in charge, if they don't learn that Americans don't want a dictator, then we will just keep flip flopping between the two major parties on a national level and in the swing states every time an election cycle comes around. Major decisions like this need to take the fickle beast that is popularity into consideration. Believe it or not it is important.
From the looks of it they are doing the peoples work. On the other hand Walker and the GOTP are doing Corporate America's.
its funny how yall are bashing the gov but a few weeks ago you wre whining about the deficit. you go gov, tough choices have to be made and i applaud you sticking with the tough choices
Yes, power to the people. But the people have to realize that only works if they get their butts to the polls... even for mid-terms and primaries. The cost of voter apathy is becoming starkly apparent.
Exactly HN! Complacency has NO place in mid-term elections! I do believe they've learned their lesson and won't be fooled again in 2012!
@cynical1 - You're more than welcome! ;o)
kaara...
Actually, we don't even need to increase taxation of the wealthy....just take away the loopholes and tax shelters they take advantage of. We, the other 90%-95% of Americans, have to pay the piper, so should the wealthy!
@ devie,
Walker doing corporate America's work is a stretch. In this specific instance, the union works for the state, and the employees are paid from revenue that is both from personal income taxes and corporate.
If you want to argue what is happening, that is a different story. And I like the majority disapprove of what Walker is doing. It really looks like a witch hunt to me. I personally hate it when either party has a personal agenda and pits one neighbor against another. Simply because of career choices, sweat and sacrifice that person made for their family vs. someone less (or more) fortunate.
Hey Feisty, Can you believe this remark from cdahl?
"cdahl Regardless of where you stand, I can't back any party or situation that promotes one party to "run and hide". If this is the new system it is broken."
First of all, you make reference to taking a "stance." Let me see the Repubs take the stand that only they know what needs to be done in any situation. This is proven by the fact that the gov and his congressional majority have the power to pass the legislation simply by a count of numbers. So, they have nothing to fear by agreeing to sit at a table and listen to compromising suggestions. Yet they refuse.
Second, you say you "can't back any party or situation that promotes one party to "run and hide". If I am not mistaken, even you have a good idea where they are. Hence, they are not hidden. They are doing the only thing they can to represent the people who elected them. According to polls of late, it would seem that there is a public opinion in WI that doesn't feel that the gov and his republican congress is as highly thought of as they were. One day, hopefully the entire nation will that as far as the GOP is concerned, their emperors without clothes are interested in one thing and one thing only; getting the most bucks for they banging of the taxpayers.
And lastly, you stated; “If this is the new system it is broken." I am sorry to say again you are mistaken. There is nothing new about this policy. Just look back at the U.S. Senate over the past two years plus. The Republicans forced the "super-majority" rule on almost every congressional act proposed. You can see that meant without some defections they chose what was passed and what wasn't. Can't you? You might say, "Well, they stood their ground and didn't run." Unfortunately, I would disagree. They did hide. They hid in plain sight. They hid behind the word "NO."
Give the GOP credit; they kept their ducks in a row. And any farmer will tell you that having that many ducks walking in a row, you don't have to look to hard to see what the end product is; a deep line of piled up duck sh@t.
Bob-1887910
"DEMOCRATS AREN'T THROWING IN THE TOWEL ON NEGOTIATIONS," MILLER SPOKESMAN MIKE BROWNE SAID. "As noted in statement, talks took a step back at end of week but lines of communication were open through weekend. Clearly, the overwhelming public sentiment is to find a solution that preserves collective bargaining and health care programs while addressing fiscal situation ... and that's where Democrats are at too.
That Miller is insisting on the Illinois-Wisconsin border as a meeting spot is important, however. Sunday evening's Wall Street Journal piece was another in a series of articles suggesting that those Democrats who had fled the state were about to give in. State SENATE DEMOCRATS INSISTED THAT THE COMMENT WAS OVERPLAYED, though in a follow-up statement to The Huffington Post, Miller's spokesman didn't specifically refute the claim that his boss was prepared to head back to the capital and allow a quorum to take place.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/07/wisconsin-democrats-scott-walker_n_832239.html
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Umm, the 14 senators in Wisconsin have plenty of back up in the polls 63-33 are against Gov Walker.
TC,
Sorry, I can't side with you. I am against what the republicans did in DC "hiding" behind no, and I am against any party that leaves their constituents. No matter how noble one feels their efforts are.
I for one, will not side with a government that promotes leaving the chamber and not voting at all.
If that is acceptable to you, then on this we will have to agree to disagree.
Maritime Man, actually the right to work is an inalienable right according to the constitution. The owning a business; or seeking election; are not rights, but they are privileges.
one thing you can say about Michael Moore is that he always has the facts and evidence to back his facts up .... unlike Rush - Sarah -huckabee - Hannity ETC who make up the facts as they go along or depending on who there pandering to
The President is generally performing well in office, despite the obstructionism of far-right ideologues.
Is that a joke???? You are kidding right???? If not, that has to be the stupidest comment I've seen on newsvine all year.
The proof that the GOPTP jumped down the rabbit hole is in these polls. For whatever reason, republicans who won big in 2010 by campaigning on jobs, jobs, jobs and the economy decided their victory meant they were free to attack middle class workers including teachers, fire fighters and police officers. The GOPTP misjudged where people were on the issue of collective bargaining; the GOP has been at it for 30 years so apparently they figured they could quietly just eliminate unions. The GOP has over-reached and discovered too late that Americans--republican, independent and democrat, union and nonunion--still uphold worker "rights". I believe it was a mistake the GOPTP cannot correct--they've let the genie out of the bottle. In addition, their verbal contempt for ordinary working people has never been spoken more clearly than during the last year. Governor Walker made the politically fatal mistake of refusing to negotiate with the Wisconsin 14 and his continued stubborness has awakened the sleeping giant, the silent majority in this country. Thank you to the Wisconsin 14 and the Indiana 37 for being willing to take the political heat and do what it took to bring what was happening quietly to the National stage, giving it the attention it deserved. Had they not fled, no one would have noticed what happened until it was too late.
cdahl. I usually agree with a lot of what you say but regarding the 14 democrats, I disagree. Normally, I do not support the idea of leaving the state but in this instance, I absolutely do support it. They could not filibuster, they were refused any seat at the table to discuss the issue--they had no choice. Governor Walker ordered his GOP controlled House & Senate to pass this union busting legislation in one week; he announced it on a Friday afternoon and wanted it done the next week. At NO TIME did Walker ask to meet with the public employee unions to discuss it. In this case, Walker and the GOP behaved not as leaders but as thugs. Last week Ohio could not get its union-busting legislation out of committees so one GOP "no" vote member was replaced by someone else who voted "yes"; this was done on two committees--it passed 17-16 in the full Senate but it would not have been voted on at all if the GOP hadn't used back-handed, last minute substitutions to do it. That's an underhanded and dishonorable way for the GOP to conduct the democratic process. I see what Walker and the GOP in Wisconsin were doing as equally dishonorable to the democratic process.
As someone who lives in Florida - where an extremely small percentage of voters elected a Tea Party governor whose health care company was fined billions for stealing money from the US taxpayer - we envy Wisconsin voters the ability to hold a recall election
...I sincerely hope you people send Walker down the tubes
Tc,
I assume you missed the news about the not so secret meetings between the govenor and the runaway dems. If you did, the news flash is in my first sentence. They have been having meetings and the Dems haven't come to the table with anything that will take care of the issues. Until they do, the Govenor and the Repubs should stand their ground. If that means he has to start mailing lay off notices, then he should do it.
What the Govenor has proposed and the Repubs have written into a bill still allows more bargaining power than any federal employee has and these clowns are whining about it. It's time that we get rid of collective bargaining agreements in this country that protect people with seniority rather than people with skill and work ethic. Otherwise we keep the same old stupid status quo that is wrecking our education system and is partly to blame for wrecking the auto industry.
Michael Moore is merely one of monkey-ears' fat lap doggies. So what, whatever he says?
No, but those same citizens that voted in each cogressional district do have the power to attempt to correct, to a certain extent, any situation that arises that they disagree with. A certain % of those who voted in a district the last election can force a recall of either Dems or Reps by signing a petiton. The moment the Dems (1 Dem) sets foot in the chamber a call for a vote can be held without further discussion. That way the law will be in effect until and if any recalls can take place. So, I guess both points of view could be rendered irrelevant.
One of those "Gang of 14" is my Sen. Bob Wirch and yes I signed his RECALL oetition this past weekend.
Good Luck! He is not representing me and w/o these Senators we have no budget just the the FED so who's fault is that?
Also I've just seen a notice that has been posted in a Public School Teachers launchroom to "Protest and do not support any Local Business that Does not Support the Union Cause! Nice one teachers!
Jody,
Good points. I have to go back to 1.8. They system is broken. I am so tired of this my side against your side strategy that really keeps 99.9% (made up %) of us in the middle attacking each other.
The truth is that every party needs economic prosperity for every working American and American family. The "Rich" need customers to keep them "Rich". The middle class needs good paying jobs to buy goods, support their family. All of our families need hope for a better tomorrow.
Unfortunately, today's politics seem like too much of a bad sports rivalry. If each party would quit pandering to the lobbiests and start working for the betterment of the people we could get a lot more accomplished.
Jody, I will say that one thing I like with First Read is that the extremes on both side have the ability to read/relate to the other's position.
To me, the Walker/Wisconsin situation is broken. And there is no easy fix. I actually support what the Democrats are doing. I cannot support Walker because I don't believe that he is doing this for fiscal reasons, but more for political gain or punishment). What I really fear is this new era of walking out any time one polarized party disagrees with the majority. Simple majority votes are not good either. There were methods that were in place for discussions. Unfortunately, these measures seem to be misused and abused more than being used for what they were intended.
None of this would be as big of a flap as it is if it was reported correctly, now the truth twisting mike moron from canada with his socialist views is going to raise the level of smoke and mirrors truth twisting to benefit his fellow socialist democrates and the unions. The real truth is that removing collective bargaining does nothing to the unions except make each union a little more responsible for the work they do and the benefits they receive which maybe but doubtful make the unions clean up their lazy house and get rid of the dead beats and retain the good somewhat like what happens in the private sector.
Scott Walker and the Republicans have taken a very large cancerous tumor that has slowly killing the state and the tax payer an finally addressing a treatment and hopefully a cure.
The real solution is close public schools and make them private, better education at a lower cost.
I fully expect layoff notices to be sent out today. What's with the "reversal of fortune?" This governor has not backed down.
If I ran and hid from my job....I would be fired. Not saying I agree with Walker, but facts are facts. The next thing that could happen......lay everyone off, reclassify the positions. I have seen that done before. Then they offer people to reapply. My guess is, most of the people having a problem with this would reapply. It isn't right but I'm just saying.........
With the way the current economic situation is, it is a no win situation....go on strike = lose job because there are so many out of work, won't have problems filling the positions :(
[independent jim] You blew it when you said Moore had the facts, his films are all lies based on "cut and paste" to achieve what is not and whole lot of crap glued together.
www.moorexposed.com, by David Hardy
Moore is a 400lb laugh amongst film makers seeing as how he won an award for a documentary that was in fact a work of fiction totally unrelated to truth.
In Moore’s latest film, he finally comes right out and says it. In his new film, Michael Moore declares that he wishes to “eliminate” capitalism and replace it with collective ownership of the economy. Capitalism: A Love Story’s.
This from one of Americas biggest story tellers, who has made millions on the backs of hard working Americans, very much like the Union bosses drawing down six figure incomes.
http://mooreexposed.com/terrorism.htm
Biggest fan, bin Laden.
Translation of bin Laden message, from Al-Jazeera
"Praise be to Allah who created the creation for his worship and commanded them to be just and permitted the wronged one to retaliate against the oppressor in kind. To proceed:
Amazing--these people, the right, say that want to give more rights--at the same time they want to strip worker's rights to collective bargaining, a woman's right to choose, and step into your bedroom. I also read that we should "be actively involved in Libya". Do we really need to kill off any more of America's youth. Have you hugged an insane congresswoman from Minnesota today. Vote Liberal!
You are right Jimmie , Moore he is another anti-American who love America's enemies, like Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez who shake hands with Omar Qaddafi . What can you expect from a greedy commi who hate is own country.
This poll isn't about the democrats or republicans... it's about the people....it's time the people have a voice...Walker has shown his true nature.... refusing to negotiate but then spending 20mins on the phone with faux koch about vacationing in Ca, wanted ads, and also thinking about utilization of thugs... sad, sad....sad day for America... IMPEACH WALKER - If he refuses to negotiate.
@ Biloxipat: The only thing awakened last November was unbridled corporate buying of our elections. The Koch Brothers spoke in the midterms, NOT the people, and if we don't amend the U.S. Constitution to right the travesty of Citizens United vs FCC, then we're all in deep doo doo.
I keep hearing about "tough choices". Tough choices; lets see, a 4% increase in taxes on people who have more money than they could ever spend, or defund everything that benefits the workers and the poor and government agencies that protect the consumer? I guess we'll have to choose taking food from destitute women and children and heating oil from poor seniors and defunding consumer protections. Can't raise taxes on the rich. That might cause them to stop campaign contributions.
Feisty:
Maybe the GOP/TP should have listened to the American People instead of waging war on them.
They DID listen to the American People - specifically the American People known as David & Charles Koch.
I already have a Daddy; I didn't ask Governor Walker to fill in for him. This is a democratic republic. Our elected representatives, at all levels, do not stop answering to the electorate once they are in office. Governor Walker underestimated the intelligence of the people he 'represents', and now he is being rewarded for that arrogance.
Correction, the funny part is that the % they are putting out are from isolated targeted surveys.... So yeah.... MSN at it again just like fox... wish there was a 3rd party..
Doing the hard work, being a leader, telling the people the stark truth, recommending and implement solutions for problems that have occurred because of decades of government corruption, those are all tough jobs, and not very popular things to do. And those are the things Scott Walker is doing.
Telling people everything is just peachy, proposing budgets with $0.45 of every dollar spent is from borrowed money, not being a leader but letting others make the difficult choices, demonizing the oppositions every attempt to control spending, to control entitlements, and having parties at the White House like "MoTown Night" are what Obama does. You know the easy, and popular things to do.
Being a leader is not the same as being a dictator.
I don't know WHY so many of you don't understand the various types of leadership concepts and simply look towards an authoritarian concept for leadership. It's almost frightening how many make the ludicrous argument...that TELLING another what to do and how to do it is the hallmark of a good leader.
A TRULY good leader is not a dictator; a GOOD leader knows HOW to encourage, inspire and select appropriate people to help them attain their vision. A REAL leader, has a vision and goes about making that vision reality, without having to resort to divisive or heavy handed tactics. A REAL leader, recognizes both their own strengths and weaknesses and knows WHEN to admit they are wrong or when they are leading their flock astray.
Governor Walker is no leader...he's a charlatan, who seems to have realized HOW to manipulate and con others...not inspire and encourage. THERE is a huge difference.
I agree totally. The way Obama crammed through ObamaCare, having his minions Pelosi and Reid buy the necessary votes to pass that legislation. The hidden meetings, the back room deals with the unions, all the waivers (over a 1000) to his political pals. Just awful.
JoAnnaSmith1-deflection
JoAnnaSmith1 aka Jimmy Crow
I agree totally. The way Obama crammed through ObamaCare.
jimmy did i tell you last week that Obamacare is the same version as Romny care he passed while Governor of Mass.
Jimmy while you deny College student the right to vote, remember Obamacare is romney care.
No echo82 - not a deflection. A comparison. A contrast to Obama. Walker realizes the magnitude of the economic problems in Wisconsin. He won an election on just such issues. The state legislator, which used also used to be in Democratic hands, also move substantially into GOP hands. The taxpayers have had enough with the cozy relationship between the Democrats and the unions. Walker now has proposed solutions to the problems, and he has the support in the state legislator to implement those solutions, except the Democrats, who are cowards, ran away from their duties.
Obama though does nothing. He proposes budgets with $1.65 trillion dollar deficits. Calls Walkers motives an "assault on unions", sends his union thugs to Wisconsin to protest and riot, and offers no solutions other than the fact that the taxpayer must pay the unions.
Elections have consequences echo82. Do you recall who said that?
How can a bill that is debated for 2 years be considered as ramming something thru ... the repubs said no on day one and are still saying no they just hate the thought that health care can be had cheaper and better than what is offered by the insurance industry
JoAnnaSmith1, Jimmy Crow,
Obama though does nothing. He proposes budgets with $1.65 trillion dollar deficits. Calls Walkers motives an "assault on unions", sends his union thugs to Wisconsin to protest and riot, and offers no solutions other than the fact that the taxpayer must pay the unions.
Girl you would not know a union thug if one were standing next to you, if there were union thugs in Wisconsin they would have closed that building. unions thugs are people Skilled union bring in to keep things closed, last time i checked the lawmakers are able to go and come as they please, Union thugs, Girl you need to stop listion to Fox, there station is the only news station that uses the term union thugs while reporting. ok Jimmy crow.
I call her Jimmy crow because she is in favor of restricting voters going to the polls using laws that silence the vote. Jimmy i know you must be from MS and your father was in the Klan.
jim,
Funny I don't recall much open debate. The primary building of the bill was done behind closed doors with only Dems and their benefactors invited. Ironically the Dems created and built the bill and still had to buy off their own members to get the bill passed. If not for the payoffs, the bill would still be sitting in spite of the fact that Dems had full control of everything for those two years.
Joanna,
Right on with the comparison. Maybe someday the koolaid sippers will wake up and realize that "frat boy in chief" really isn't doing much of anything.
Obama and leadership go together only if the middle two words are "has no", and the last word is "ability".
I would advise everyone on this blog to hit the link to the poll, and scroll down to question 22 a/b. Seems the pollsters proved that the wording of a question changes the outcome of the answers.
I wonder if our fearless reporters read that far- and, if they did, why they did not mention it?
By the way, here is another example of the hypocrisy- to say nothing of the sheer idiocy- of the left
http://dailycaller.com/2011/03/04/huffington-post-contributors-go-on-strike-propose-collective-bargaining/
I wonder if this will spread? Think the lefties on this site will suddenly demand to get paid for their posts?
Of course, that presupposes that the DNC is not paying them already. . .
This poll isn't about the democrats or republicans... it's about the people....it's time the people have a voice...Walker has shown his true nature.... refusing to negotiate but then spending 20mins on the phone with faux koch about vacationing in Ca, wanted ads, and also thinking about utilization of thugs... sad, sad....sad day for America... IMPEACH WALKER - If he refuses to negotiate.
US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired
Maybe the GOP/TP should have listened to the American People instead of waging war on them.
___________________________
Maybe the President should have listened to the American People instead of shoving Health Care Reform down our throats. The next election will sort things out I'm sure; of course Democrats said that last year and they weren't happy with the outcome, and they still refuse to accept it.
@Wake Up: The President gave the GOP too many chances to contribute to health care reform, even giving up the cornerstone "public option." Still the GOP just stomped their childish feet and shouted NO NO NO. They offered nothing in return. Just obstruction.
Now the Teabaggers are like the tiger that will run GOP over the cliff like lemmings.
Funny, I thought we were tired of the cozy relationship between BOTH parties and corporations.
@Wake up: Thank you for your service. Some of us forget our manners in our rush to thrust our opinions at orthers.
Excellent comparison. The lemmings over the cliff!!!1
Gov. Walker and his TP ilk would have an argument if he only mentioned he wanted to do away with collective bargaining DURING his electoral campaign. But he DIDN'T.
Because of that he should COMPROMISE with the union and leave CB alone, at least for a later date. By not doing so he has shown the true face of the TP and thus help it become a minor political movement with hardly a chance to win elections again.
Collective bargaining has and always will be a tool used to blackmail the Wisconsin taxpayer. As obama said change is good and it's time the liberals change, instead of strangleing us with your high costs and and threats be more like the private sector and earn your monies and benefits with out the colllective bargaining noose around our necks.
A special note too the media and the democrates sounding off all the time; try telling the truth and quit leading the under educated down a path of lies just so th polls look good. And get rid of michael moron, the last thing Wisconsin needs is a socialist from canada.
Patriot: your logic is only outmatched by your spelling skills.
All other union thug haters: when weeping over the plight of the poor taxpayer, don't forget that union members pay taxes as well as you.
Walker got caught up in the power of the moment, and THOUGHT that the TPers numbers consisted of a much, much larger population than the true numbers showed - just because they've been so "vocal."
His cajones grew bigger when he was stupid enough to think that he was having a "personal conversation" with the Koch brothers who had anointed his nutness, only to find out it was a prank call that had set him up, and outed for the ENTIRE COUNTRY AND WORLD TO SEE WHAT HIS TRUE MOTIVES WERE. But it was too late. Folks who had supported him (even though it was it against their own best interest) realized who his "Gods" are (the Koch brothers), and they realized that he didn't give a sh*t about any of them. He was just using and making fools out of them.
Now they've turned on him.... and it ain't pretty. Oh, this may be one of the shortest political careers in history, for Walker who's cajones got so hugh that he had to roll them around in a Koch brothers wheel barrow.
The fact that Walker was conspiring AND more than willing to destroy the state of WI and confidence of his constituents who ENTRUSTED stewardship of their state to him, should alone be grounds to IMMEDIATELY RECALL his election, and kick his ass out on the streets.
What is turning the people of Wisconsin against Walker is not some pro-union feeling (because without the right to strike, they barely have a union anyway.) It is that Walker is continuing to increase subsidies, tax breaks, and blind eyes for the big business people who put him in office.
And you'll notice (as many people have) that "traditionally Republican-voting unions" --- firefighters and police --- are not slated for layoffs or taking away their collective bargaining rights.
JoAnna, you're wasting your time. Facts do not mean squat on Newsvine. You can't argue with a liberal who's only fallback solution is to attempt to smear you with some racial comment. Since you don't agree with them, you must be racist. The term "racist" was invented by a fellow named Trotsky just prior to the Bolshevik Revolution. It's the oldest trick in the book and it's the same crowd here. History just repeats itself.
At least there's one woman on this crappy blog that has the balls to call a spade a spade. The rest of you idiots make me want to puke.
For the life of me I cannot understand why any middle class American with even a bit of insight would vote Republican. I do understand the need for conservative politics and in fact value them as well. But the current Republican leadership has nothing to do with conservative ideals other than the necessary pitch for an election cycle. These people are the wealthy who could care less if this republic fails and in fact would encourage it. Or they are ultra ring wing religous fanatics who believe their own values are to be expected of everyone. What scares me for my children is not the deficit. We have had an ongoing deficit since Alexander Hamilton. What scares me is how very close this country is to fascism. Good fascists will decry socialism in any fashion. If this economy collapses, the wealthy have the most in place to ensure survival. They have an aristocracy in Washington, financial stability and will have control of the military. I know, it can't happen to us cause we are driven by Manifest Destiny, we're Mericans. Heaven forbid that day arrives. Walker is just another mouthpiece for elitists of which Wisconsin is not the sole owner.
Ben, you can't argue with Republicans anywhere because they will just rewrite history and make stuff up to suit their beliefs. When that tactic runs out, they throw out garbage like Communists and Trotsky and Bolshevik Revolution that make sense only in their little minds.
Eliminating collective bargaining does zero to help Wisconsin's debt. Cutting $200 million in tax revenue the week Gov. Walker entered office is what put Wisconsin into deficit for 2011. Now he is trying to lay that blame at the feet of people who didn't vote for him. Pure and simple.
Stay home next time and let the big people debate. In fact, I'll put it in simple terms just for you. There are 12 cookies on a plate. Corporations take 11 of them then turn to the Tea Party and say, "The unions are trying to take your cookie." Congratulation. The billionaires running the GOP are laughing at you as you do the dirty work for them.
You're not going to offend me by insulting Republicans. There are some that I like, but I'm not a Republican. For the most part, the Democratic and Republican parties are just a snake with two heads.
Governor Walker is doing what he promised. Unions don't like it because they're going to have to suffer with the rest of us. Tough sh!t. He was elected by the people of Wisconsin. The rest of you need to butt out of their business. It's their problem, let them handle it.
And you can take your cookies and shove them where the sun don't shine, moron.
Nice, Ben. You say you are not a Republican, but you offer no facts, no intelligent discussion and no clue of what is actually happening. Nothing but insults and ignorance. 5-for-5 on the GOP recruiting checklist.
Your cookie conversation was supposed to be intelligent?
This is your example of facts and intelligent conversation. Where did you get this information? You've sat down with the governor's aids and gone over the budget for Wisconsin? I'm sorry, I didn't realize that you and everyone else here had this kind of access.
It's very easy for you people to watch MSNBC and think you know what's going on. It's very different when you're the new governor of a state that doesn't have the funds to pay its employees.
"Wisconsin Policy Research Institute"
Well, I guess we can just throw out Novembers election results then.
It was nice of MSNBC to sanitize the poll so that it's sheep weren't offended, amazing some of the stuff they forgot to talk about:
Q4. 67% think the country is on the wrong track.
Q8. 21% strongly approve of Obama
Q9. 29% strongly approve of Walker
Q17. 95% think the WI budget is at least somewhat a problem
Here is the stacking of the deck:
Q40. Generally speaking, do you consider yourself a Republican, a Democrat, an Independent, or
something else?
Republican ............................................................. 24
Democrat ................................................................ 28
Independent ............................................................ 29
Other/No preference ............................................... 17
Don’t know/Refused ................................................ 2
Q41. [If not Democrat or Republican] Do you think of yourself as closer to the Republican Party or to
the Democratic Party?
Republican ............................................................. 30
Democrat ................................................................ 38
Neither/Just Independent ....................................... 24
Don’t know/Refused ................................................ 8
Pjam, these idiots will believe anything MSNBC tells them from manipulated polls and numbers. They also thought they were going to win big in the last election too.
@no joe, no bo, nj
.
Ok, I did check it out, but what is your point? In both cases a plurality of Wisconsin respondents opposed "Limiting most public employees' ability to negotiate" or "Stripping most public employees of their right to collectively bargain". 50% in the first case and 58% in the latter (being a majority rather than just a plurality).
PJamm
Nice of you to leave out the somewhat approve and the disapprove which paint a differnt picture than your just picking one number..
 So, what is your point? Politicians should not do what needs to be done because it is unpopular? You do whats right and you let the voters sort it out later.
Exactly what people have been saying about health care reform.
The point is Walker did not do what was right.
Except that union busting is not "what needs to be done". The unions already said that they would be willing to do what is necessary to help balance the budget, but that wasn't good enough for Willy Wonker Walker. He wanted to show his heros the Koch Suckers what a tough guy he was and that they could rely on him. Power and greed is all WWW sees. He doesn't care one iota about the working people in Wisconsin and most people in the country can see it plain as day.
And there you have it. The average level of conservative thinking. Assuming facts not in evidence. It's not right, and it's not necessary. The people don't want it. Walker didn't campaign on it because he knew he would never be elected. The polls bear that out.
And still you think he should just ram it through and let God sort it out. I wonder if you said that about health care reform. Or DADT. Somehow I doubt it. But union busting, that appeals to you.
Patrick and Ramboet have it right. You and Governor Walker have it wrong.
John-1888246
So, what is your point? Politicians should not do what needs to be done because it is unpopular? You do whats right and you let the voters sort it out later.
You know what John ----I don't think we are on the same page.
If you read the article, you'd see the voters voted; and the voters sorted it out.
And I quote from the article---"even Democrats in the state legislature, with all 14 state senators fleeing the state to deny the GOP majority a quorum, enjoy a net-positive rating of 50%-42%, higher than Senate Republicans at 46%-46%."
No one wants the punk, Scott Walker, t-baggers, and the filthy Koch brothers much anymore!!!
The major miscalculation in both parties, is when you win a majority that you can over-reach.
Walker better reverse himself or he's done.
Eric - Gov. Walker is ALREADY done.
He is just trying to find a way to save face right now.
I guess the voters of Wisconsin didn't want to wait.
It's one thing to do what is right - I support that wholeheartedly. However, the attack on unions (alone) is politically motivated - even a blind person could see that. The Republican party is playing the voters like a "slot machine." If at first you don't succeed, just keep "pulling" until you find a winning combination. And that is all this is about - winning - at any cost ! ! ! Why not attack the situation and legislate an option that will help prevent some of the obscene retirements? Why not effect a "review panel" that is separate from the negotiation process? Give the panel power to veto and return agreements to the bargaining table? The panel could be the "bad person," which would allow the union and collective bargaining agent(s) to both save face . . . . Collective bargaining is something that has gone awry - and it does need oversight. Give & get - it can't always be about "giving" alone. That's why they call it "bargaining." The problem is - that nobody wants to be the scapegoat (bad fellow) and say no, or risk being the one who "shuts down" anything - whether it be trash collection, street sweeping, or hospitals . . . . But, sometimes it is just necessary to say "NO," because it is the right thing to do . . . The idea to fix spending was great - the wasted opportunity and method really sucks - and shows what stupid leaders voters have placed in office. They have themselves to blame ! ! !
Walker isn't doing what is right in any moral or society-centered way. He's only doing what his owners have told him to do...
John....Is it coincidence that when Republicans gathered for their annual meeting, they almost across the board starting cutting programs and tightening OUR belts and then had lots and lots of spend money for Big Business?
Is that the ONLY place Republicans know how to cut? We all pay taxes. We don't want to live in a plutocracy where only the rich can afford healthcare and everyone is priced out of the right to good health.
Republicans governers are only doing the bidding of their cronies in Congress who are starving the life out of progams with the potential to increase poverty while increasing wealth. Enough already. If the only answer Republicans can come up with to cut costs is on the most needed programs, that tells me that they don't bother to look at the cost of all of those tax credits they lavish on Big Business. Cut those first. Then, come after the rest if it's still necessary.
Meanwhile, the Biggie Piggies of Corporate America are swilling away while the rest of the country is barely making it. Is there a Republican excuse that's credible for that? Any fool who thinks the Republican backroom agenda isn't all about jacking more money into their 1% cronies lives in a dream world. The Republicans only know how to provide wealth protection insurance. With them, that's where it all begins and end. They detest the idea of a prosperous labor force in the US because that would mean their greedheads Corporate sponsors have to actually pay for the labor their workers do.
That's the only reason Walker is so hot to squelch the voice of the unions in WI. But, it won't stop there. He knows if he can take away collective bargaining, the Biggie Piggies will go after that like it's their last meal.
The reality is that Republicans by virtue of their backroom agendas are no longer credible. They axe veteran hospitals, allow Big Oil to reap the rewards of tax credits while zapping the rest of us at the gas pumps. Just for show, Big Oil puts on its whine, whine, whine routine because this administration doesn't want the entire country to be at their mercy. Sorry, no sympathy for the devil.
Union budget busting is a lie!:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/03/06/109649/why-employee-pensions-arent-bankrupting.html#storylink=omni_popular
Beverly in Chicago Comment collapsed by the community
John-1888246
So, what is your point? Politicians should not do what needs to be done because it is unpopular? You do whats right and you let the voters sort it out later.
You know what John ----I don't think we are on the same page.
If you read the article, you'd see the voters voted; and the voters sorted it out.
And I quote from the article---"even Democrats in the state legislature, with all 14 state senators fleeing the state to deny the GOP majority a quorum, enjoy a net-positive rating of 50%-42%, higher than Senate Republicans at 46%-46%."
No one wants the punk, Scott Walker, t-baggers, and the filthy Koch brothers much anymore!!!
All you liberals get what you deserve! If the tea people did what you so called good people done, with name calling Hitler signs you would have a cow. Hippocrates is what you are. But the correct word is MORONS. And as for education, with 50% graduation rate send the teachers home.
The Southern states came to Wis. and took some big companies to move south where the unions have nothing to speak of. Thanks and keep up the good work.
It's Great being Independent! You can see both sides for what they are!
These polls are all from liberal media and Moore? What a joke!
Since the 1960s, government unions have been able to sit behind closed doors with the politicians they put in office and write contracts, the cost of which is borne by taxpayers who have no one at the table. They call this collective bargaining. A more accurate term is collusive bargaining. The majority of Americans do not approve of this type of governance and mean to put an end to it period.
This is about avoiding bankruptcy in Wisconsin and bringing fiscal responsibility to states and cities across the nation. Scott Walker’s proposals will dramatically improve education for children, allowing for merit pay, the firing of incompetent teachers and even school choice.
In the end, voters will realize that Walker’s changes were not all that drastic after all and that they gave government the ability to spend more efficiently. That will make the fleebaggers look even pettier, as well as hopelessly in the pockets of unions who wanted to continue their control over public policy at even the cost of representative government.
Scott Walker cannot lose this fight, because his country cannot afford to have him lose it.
He won't. If Walker doesn't get 100% of his agenda implemented, the Democrats will just get some symbolic bone thrown to let them save a little face and to finally shut them up. And it's not just Walker, it's Daniels in Indiana, and Kasich in Ohio, and Christie in New Jersey. And there are Democrats too, like Brown in California and Cuomo in New York. It's Scott down in Florida and Haley in South Carolina. They'll all have new success in finally putting their states financial houses in order.
And one tin soldier rides away.
Walker has 3 years, and 10 months left in office. The poll only suggests that people are disappointed right now. Given the level of negative reporting on the issue by the left leaning media it's surprising that he is not down more. In the end when he continues to push an agenda that gets his budget under control the people of Wisconsin will most likely give him another term.
As for waking a giant, that is silly MSNBC rhetoric. The 2010 midterms where the result of the giant being awakened, all this pro Union anti-Tax payer reporting is simply reinvigorating that Giant and that will cost Obama and the Democrats in 2012. Remember a 1.5% swing in 2012 in most districts he won will cost Obama the presidency. And the left was mighty invigorated in 2008, while the right was mighty depressed. So even if both sides are invigorated I think Obama losses. The only hope the left has is to a) ignite their base, b) suppress the tea party and c) depress the right. If they can’t do all three Obama losses.
The dormant liberal elitists of Wisconsin just assumed it would be business as usual. Oops!! Guess we Can't have our cake and eat it, too.
Gov Walker will win this battle regardlesshow the spin doctors at NBC try to propagandize the story.
Sorry, Dems,, but you have not arouse your base sufficiently to keep Walker from achieving his objectives. The tea party is a SILENT majority in your state and will remain so even after Obama departs in 2012. That's reality now ...and get used to it.
The Repubs ran on jobs and jobs alone in the midterms. All the stuff about union busting and abortion just came along for the ride because these are part of conservative ideology. Where are those jobs?? The American people will remember in 2012 and penalize the Repubs when we understand we've been lied to...again.
Obama has a second term in the bag. What Repub out there can challenge him? Palin? Gingrich? Huckabee? Romney? ALL of them come with severe, overloaded baggage to keep them out of the top spot.
These union-busting and anti-abortion/contraception moves are waking up the moderate and liberal segments of America. 1 in 3 women have used Planned Parenthood (no, not just for abortion but for contraception and family planning-- abortion is only 2% of what it does). Women are angry at yet another attack on them. Walker's moves against unions are confirming for the middle class that Repubs are just for the rich folks.
Repubs, say goodbye to the midterm gains. Why? You're not concentrating on jobs like you promised.
Walker is sounding like Gadhafi in the way that he will not compromise. Sounds like he wants to burn it all down too. A good leader knows when to pick and fight and knows when to compromise.
The "poll" was only 600 people AND it was stacked towards Dems. About as useful as MSNBC itself.
Q40. Generally speaking, do you consider yourself a Republican, a Democrat, an Independent, or
something else?
Republican ............................................................. 24
Democrat ................................................................ 28
Independent ............................................................ 29
Other/No preference ............................................... 17
Don't know/Refused ................................................ 2
Q41. [If not Democrat or Republican] Do you think of yourself as closer to the Republican Party or to
the Democratic Party?
Republican ............................................................. 30
Democrat ................................................................ 38
Neither/Just Independent ....................................... 24
Don't know/Refused ................................................ 8

I'd like to just make a few points.
1) Why were Posts #1 and #2 'collapsed'? I don't agree with them, but they have a right to their opinions, and should not be 'collapsed' unless they violate the conduct code. The wholesale 'collapsing' of opinions by people merely on the basis of disagreeing with their views is childish, and certainly undemocratic - where is free speech?
2) Walker may indeed have to back off on his bill stripping certain union rights, but the net result will just be an increase in the number of public sector layoffs, since he must still 'balance the budget'. If that's what the good people of Wisconsin want, that's what they should get. If they also agree that a tax increase is needed, that also is their choice.
3) What's really missing from this whole debate is factual information on the average compensation paid to the public union workers, compared with the typical private sector worker that has to pay for those benefits, and how would Walker's bill impact that compensation. Without having that information available, it's virtually impossible to make an intelligent decision on who is right in this situation. Asking people's opinions (polls) about an issue that doesn't present the facts in an understandable manner is meaningless.
Roy - Never thought I would see the day where I agreed with you on anything! But, today is that day!
I agree with you 100% the collapsing is becoming ridiculous around here and that goes for BOTH sides!
Feisty, I agree with you also......
Perhaps folks may want to collapse this one.
Wisconsin’s battle over the union label continues to resonate nationwide. Lefties complain about conservative funders David and Charles Koch in often obscene fashion, making juvenile plays on their last name and prank calls like troublesome children. The so-called mainstream media are heavily invested in that strategy, calling the Koch brothers some of the “biggest bankrollers” for Wisconsin Gov. Walker.
It’s a theme that almost defies reason. The Kochs openly support things they believe in – especially free markets and limited government. To media types, those beliefs are suspect or even audacious. To the left, they’re criminal or anti-American. Both groups claim to question everything. Everything, that is, except who funds the left. When that gets mentioned, there is either complete silence or cries of conspiracy at the mere mention of the name George Soros. Yet Soros has given billions around the globe for decades to push his own beliefs. His impact on liberal politics here in the U.S. is unparalleled.
Wherever left-wing organizations gather, you can find either him or a pile of his cash. His dollars reach from pro-abortion and pro-drug groups to fringe media outlets and Democratic campaigns. In just one day last week, while traditional media were going after the Kochs, the Soros Empire swept across the land pushing a hard-left agenda.
Three separate story lines from Thursday Feb. 24, 2011, showed Soros in all his glory. In the first, liberal activists pushed for a Supreme Court ethics code . The second talked of “Tea-Party-like revolts” against spending cuts. The last involved the nationwide union protest in support of the Wisconsin strikers. Every one of those stories was pushed, influenced and organized by Soros-funded groups. He might have never even lifted a finger. He didn’t have to. He's No. 35 on Forbes’ list of global billionaires with $14 billion, so he just opened his wallet.
. Two separate Soros groups – Common Cause and the Alliance for Justice – organized to attack Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas for their connection to, you guessed it, the Kochs.
According to grant data provided by Capital Research Center, Common Cause has netted at least $2 million from the Open Society Institute (OSI), the primary Soros charity. According to The Post, “a group of more than a hundred law professors from across the country” was also involved. Sure, there were more than 100, connected to different law schools, but they have the Soros Stamp of Approval. On the letter they sent to Congress, many names are easily linked to King George – a member of the OSI board in Baltimore, OSI advisers, those from groups
That same day, The Hill wrote about the Democratic “Tea Party movement.” The article cited how “a large coalition of progressive groups announced an ‘emergency call to action.’” That group included MoveOn.org, Democracy for America, USAction, the Service Employees International Union and People for the American Way. In some way or another, every one of those organizations or their foundations gets money from Soros.
Then we come to the nationwide “union” protest – the so-called “rally to save the American Dream” that got widespread coverage. Around America, pro-union groups rallied to “stand in solidarity with the people of Wisconsin.” More than half that list of at 43 organizations involved as of Thursday gets money either directly or indirectly from George. They might all get money from him. No reporter bothered to ask.
A good journalist might question those connections. But there are too few good journalists and too many questions.
Taken from a non-liberal web location.
He should just file State Bankruptcy on the Unions instead. That would cancel the contracts, then he could hire non-union workers that actually want to work instead of being stuck with these greedy goons. He could leave the cops and fireman out of the bankruptcy to maintain order.
mgo - states can't file for bankruptcy, federal law.
I'm going to continue to say this ... just in case anyone is listening on the Left.
THEY ARE STILL ABLE TO BARGAIN FOR WAGES!
THEY ARE STILL PROTECTED BY FEDERAL CIVIL SERVICE LAWS
THEY CAN STLL PAY THEIR OWN MEMBERSHIP TO THE UNION.
THEY CAN STILL JOIN UNION.
They just can't bargain for pensions, tenure laws, etc.
So, for example, they'd have the pension plans commensurate with what the state could PAY! If you don't like your pension plan the state can pay for negotiate for higher wages and fund your own. It will, at least be funded with real money!
If you'd ever have to lay off teachers ... you could keep the BEST as opposed to the most senior. If the most senior IS the best ... NO CHANGE
Simply put ... they still have a better deal than the rest of us!
Lastly, recent events in the news show that Scott Walker and the Republican Majority has attempted to negotiate with the Democrat minority, but is being stonewalled.
For all you union supporters that think they are supportiong YOU, it's not about YOU it's about your dues. The single element that tipped this bill was the element in which the state would no longer collect the dues from the employee. Why should they? If you think they're in this for YOU, you're wrong. They want their money!
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL "Roy - Never thought I would see the day where I agreed with you on anything! But, today is that day!...I agree with you 100% the collapsing is becoming ridiculous around here and that goes for BOTH sides!"
Wonders never cease. While I usually don't agree with your political pholosophy (except perhaps on health care, where I strongly favor universal care), I do enjoy the opportunity to occasionally 'joust' with you, and I think the free exchange of opinions is a good thing.
Have a great day.
You do the same Roy! ;o)
Once again I would like to thank Governor Walker, for assuring democrats an easy victory in 2012.
Governor Walker and his Republican supporters just made it clear, by attacking teachers, firefighters, and the police, that their policies support protecting the wealthiest Americans and corporations, against improving the lives and the security of middle class Americans. He didn't wage war on Democrats, he waged a war on middle class workers, you know, those people who vote.
I'm sure that in March 2009, only weeks after President Obama's inauguration, the 2010 midterms didn't appear too daunting to a triumphant Democratic Party.
I'm also sure that many Democrats (like you perhaps, Patrick?) thought an "easy victory" was "assured" in 2010.
Did you get the outcome of the 2010 midterms correct, Patrick?
@Mixed Bag--this issue is energizing the Democratic party in a way I haven't seen in awhile. Bring on 2012-have you seen the "possible candidates" on the GOP side? Good luck with that.
Walker/Palin 2012!
So here's the platform Democrats will run on in 2012:"1) A plan for deficit reduction? We don't need a plan for deficit reduction. Why would we do that? 2)The unions run the states, and the taxpayers are 100% responsible for paying for union members benefits and pensions. 3) Unfunded future financial obligations to support the union members benefits, cost of living increases, and pension plans will be funded just by the continued increasing taxes on the taxpayers. I mean, what else can we do? 4) We can't cut any government spending, none of it, it's all important, in fact we need to increase it".
Yeah, 2012 should be such a gem for you Democrats.
Governor Walker has NOT ATTACKED ANYONE firefighters and police are exempt from changes. Teachers, along with all other public employees of WI are asked to pay more for their insurance and their retirement, as a citizen of WI I can no longer afford to pay my health ins AND theirs. Collective bargaining needs to be removed so local municipalities have the tools required to keep functioning. Last year my school district faced a deficit and had to choose which teachers to the layoff. Now if the teachers would have agreed to pay a small portion of their insurance, layoffs would not have been needed but because of collective bargaining they were not able to do that. What don't you people understand about no money no jobs, the governor is trying to save positions by reducing the overhead for the state of Wisconsin. My goodness it's not rocket science, it's called simple mathematics.
JoAnnaSmith1--Dick Cheney is the one who said deficits don't matter, did you agree with that? I don't think any member of the Democratic party would let you assign thier agenda for them-- thanks, but no thanks!
SaraSmile- The contributations to the health insurance plans and the pension plans were done in place of annual raises in wage. The bargaining done in past years kept the wages low for the public employees and instead took those wages the workers were not getting and put them into some of their benefit packages.
Do you really want to lower those employees to the level that you are at, or would it make more sense to have YOUR benefits and wages raised to what they are receiving? Do you think it it better to race to the bottom, or is it better to have all peoples wages and benefits raised?
Should be competing for jobs that pay $2.00 a day or jobs that pay a living wage? Are we supposed to be at each other throats or try to improve living for all?
I am not surprised by the survey results. Walker got the unions to accept pay cuts and higher pension contributions. He could have declared victory and moved forward. Instead, he chose to kick them while they were down. Americans can't stand a bully.
No. Do you?
And do you think Obama agrees with Cheney, you know, since he put out his 2012 budget with a $1.65 trillion dollar deficit? That's for one year. That's more deficit spending than Bush ran up in 4 years.
At least we agree on one thing! And that is that Dick Cheney was wrong. Leaving specific items out of Bush's budget allowed them to give the illusion of less spending. You have to compare it apples to apples .
And in the end the fighting will lead to the point where the states go bankrupt and the union contracts are void.
Is that better?
I am a 21 year union man. My pension is worthless if inflation goes berserk. The dem plan is to do nothing but make promises. With them eventually the system collapses, inflation runs amok and the system resets (eventually) Problem with that scenario is that everyone who saved (401k) and all those with a pension lose out. Losers on the Gov dole are ok, as their Gov benefits will just be increased. Dems will then do, what they do so well... blame someone else (republican).
GovWalker hold fast. If the Dems don't come back lay off people until they do. You will win in the end.
echo82 - And you agree that Obama is also wrong about deficit spending? Bush added $5 trillion to the national debt in his 8 years in office, that brought it to $10 trillion total. Nothing hidden about that, that is actual total. The debt ceiling is currently at $14 trillion and Obama is pushing to have that increased. His 2012 budget alone requires that ceiling be raised to $15.65 trillion, and he still has one more budget to go before he faces elections next year. So in 4 years, Obama will exceed what Bush's deficit spending did in 8 years, and by quite a significant amount.
So do you think Obama is exhibiting any kind of leadership in curtailing the deficit? Compare and contrast that with what Walker is doing.
No JoAnnaSmith1 I do not agree that Obama is also wrong. Keep throwing out statistics that you believe supports your opinion. As I said before, if Bush did not include all of the spending in his budgets obviously spending/deficit will appear to be lower than when all is disclosed. I don't claim to be an expert in economics but I know deception when I see it. Walker has been given the financial concessions he said he needed to balance the budget in WI. So what is the problem? I don't see any correlation between Walker and Obama.
echo82-
"I don't see any correlation between Walker and Obama."
Spot on, echo82.
One of the two is taking the issue of spending, deficits, and debt seriously.
Guess which one....
So echo82 - you support deficit spending by Obama, but not by Bush? Slightly at odds with your own position, no? All of Bush's spending was tallied in the final number when he left office. Or do you think there is still "hidden" debt because of Bush? Well, there isn't. There is no deception, and $14 trillion is the current debt ceiling, and that is a very true number that includes all the debt from Bush and everyone else.
You don't see any correlation between Walker and Obama? Well here, let me explain. Walker sees a real economic threat to the state he governs. He sees that there has been a cozy, and corrupt, relationship between the Democrats and the Unions, and that structural relationship needs to be changed, similar to how 24 other states deal with their public unions. Walker sees massive debt hurting the taxpayers in a state that is already a highly taxed state. Obama on the other hand pays lip service to the federal deficit. He creates debt commissions, and ignores their results. He proposes budgets with world record deficits. He pleads with congress to raise the debt ceiling so he can spend even more, even though when as a Senator, he blamed Bush for doing the same.
Hope that makes things clearer for you.
JoAnnaSmith1--you have your point of view-I have mine. I guess we'll have to see how it all plays out now won't we?
If Walker was just interested in fixing the financial mess his state is in, he would raise taxes in the rich. PERIOD. But, his ideology is getting in the way. Reagan raised taxes, the economy started to roar back; Clinton raised taxes, the economy roared back. Bush Jr cut taxes, leading to a huge deficit and drowing economy...see a pattern?
Unfortunately Walker is blaming unions for state employee pensions issues, when it's wall street that took and shredded those pensions. Tax payers had to compensate.
I understand that union members have to help[ pay for their own benefits in tough times, but in flush times, I certainly don't see huge raises going to public sector workers. Sounds hypocritical to me.
It sounds like many of you think the teachers and other public sector unions are stealing money from the taxpayers. Did you or did you not hire these people to do a job for you? Do you or do you not think people deserve to be compensated for doing this job for you? These public sector workers are not overcompensated. A $40,000 a year salary with a $19,000 pension is not unreasonable. This is what you have agreed to pay them for the job you hired them to do. Due to the recession, many of you are unemployed, so tax revenues for your state are down 12%, but you still want your children taught, your trash hauled away, your roads cleared, your sewers operational, etc. The job you hired them to do still needs to be done. Now that the pension administrators have invested the pension money in stocks that lost much of their value in the recession, and there is a shortfall, you want the public workers to take a pay cut and contribute more of their $40,000 salary to their pensions. They have agreed to do this in the interest of balancing the budget, but you also want to make sure they can never negotiate for better conditions or benefits should the economy improve or should you decide to eliminate their pensions at some future date. Do you think they should just give up the right to negotiate ever again? Would you?
Well said, Heartlight!
So cowardice, greed, and skewed polls are what "energizes" Dems?
joannasmith has tunnel vision. She reminds us of the "cozy" relationship between Dems and Unions, but will easily forget the "cozy" relationship between Corp. and Reps. The difference is clear...by U.S. Labor Dept numbers, unions comprise less than 7% of American workers. Large corp get much much more in corporate welfare than unions get. This is lost on many right wingers. They would have you believe that unions are hurting america, when it is clear to the unbiased mind....Corporations that have NO loyalty to U.S. are doing MUCH more damage.
pjam09 and Joann,etc. Are you so crazy confused that you think Walker is trying to actually solve a budget crisis? He could have done that, and not played the unions in his own political scheme, against the DEMS. His move was not sound economicly, it was a contrived move, hidden behind serious problems... and his tactics were meant to disrupt the economy, and blame others. The unions abided by his demands, to give up pay, but he's after a TROJAN HORSE, which he is building, with folks like you, who don't know much more, than the very fears he's tells them to have. YEAH! There are budget problems, and wages should not be employed as an argument, to solve the real problems he's ignoring. Worse yet, he's making everything worse. He came up with deficits... Like the lying BIG BUSINESSES, that diverted and mismanaged funds, his system expected to take more money, than existed, and when he couldn't do that, he came after other peoples money, for a bailout. If taxes, and budgets, that are not realistic in the first place, are put in place, and then, reality check, there's no money, Walker sees no alternative than to chase political 'strategery'(not strategy) and use political bs to get his way. Where I live, the city is going into receivership, because the political fat cats teamdon'ted up with corrupt management, wherever and whenever they could. And when their bs blew up, in their faces, they thought they could just go after various groups of people, who had... income. But even there, tax bases had eroded, property values declined, people left... now, those who are left don't trust the 'leaders', and folks are fighting to keep what they can... And the fatcats...? they're looking to find some gullible, fearful, scared folks, that can be bilked... again. Too late, guys. The word is out. They are not to big to fail, and scare tactics are loosing steam. Hate unions? Hate government? No. Hate lies and corruption. Take it out of government, take it out of unions... don't make corruption ok, and don't use that stupid logic, of accepting the lesser of two evils... because, that's no solution at all. Evil is still... evil.
"So, what is your point? Politicians should not do what needs to be done because it is unpopular? You do whats right and you let the voters sort it out later."
this is the stupidest thing i have read on here in quite some time.
Politicians are PUBLIC SERVANTS. What needs to be done is what the VOTERS TELL THEM NEEDS TO BE DONE! I am tired of elected politicians deciding for themselves what agenda they would like to push on us. WE THE PEOPLE, not we the politicians, have the power in this country. If you do not like democracy, like the liberal POS nut job who wrote what I quoted above, then GET THE @!$%# OUT OF AMERICA!
Ignored by MSNBC: News that the fleebagger Dems are ready to fold...
Keep relying on those "push" polls to delude yourselves.
Bob. The Democrats have won, so no point is staying away.
Actually, there is, Patrick, unless they get a deal in writing with the republicans about the budget repair bill.
Bob-1887910
Ignored by MSNBC: News that the fleebagger Dems are ready to fold...
Keep relying on those "push" polls to delude yourselves.
Booby trap,
Could you provide a reputable source, not an opinionated piece, to substantiate your outstanding claim???
Bev, as you wish...Wall Street Journal today...
Playing a game of political chicken, Democratic senators who fled Wisconsin to stymie restrictions on public-employee unions said Sunday they planned to come back from exile soon, betting that even though their return will allow the bill to pass, the curbs are so unpopular they'll taint the state's Republican governor and legislators
Here's another story you wont see on MSNBC...Democrat politicians worked in cahoots with public employee unions to stall the bill in the first place
Knowing that Governor Walker’s budget repair bill was a virtual lock to be passed by the legislature and signed into law, an ugly conspiracy to push new union contracts in Madison was set in motion by the mayor and a senate ally. WITI-TV reports that Mayor Dave Ciesliewicz was pulling out all the stops in a frantic attempt to beat the clock and deliver one last trip to the public trough for his union benefactors. E-mails obtained by the FOX6 Investigators show that the mayor enlisted the help of State Senator Mark Miller. They both tried to convince the Secretary of State to hold up the bill by taking the maximum 10 days allowed by law before publishing the bill.Knowing that Governor Walker’s budget repair bill was a virtual lock to be passed by the legislature and signed into law, an ugly conspiracy to push new union contracts in Madison was set in motion by the mayor and a senate ally. Citizens for Responsible Government Rep. Chris Kliesmet says, “This suggests, and this is a harsh word, collusion. There is collusion between some politicians and public sector employee unions.
Bob, you really must get your news from someplace other than Faux News, the 14 said last night that negotiations have broken down and they will not return. They have the people on their side, why should they come back? Walker is toast.
We knew they would never win but it sure put the issues front and center and hopefully all the other states middle class are starting to read their equivalent types of bills. This wasn't just about union busting as people became more educated as to what was in this bill the madder they got.
While I would like them to stay away until the next election unless all the over reaching is reversed. unfortunately I don't see that as possible. Let the recall's begin and we will solve this then. 8 repub's are up for recall and if they are replaced by dems' so be it. If the repub's want to flee - ok it is legal but I'm not seeing them get much support.
WSJ is a another FOX Murdoch rag.
Sorry Bob, but it's kinda hard to take any Fox News report seriously anymore. Besides, I am certain that the Dems (and Republicans) already knew about this (and many other) political remedies that are available for any given set of circumstances.
Bob-1887910
Bev, as you wish...Wall Street Journal today...
Playing a game of political chicken, Democratic senators who fled Wisconsin to stymie restrictions on public-employee unions said Sunday they planned to come back from exile soon, betting that even though their return will allow the bill to pass, the curbs are so unpopular they'll taint the state's Republican governor and legislators
Bob ,
You do know the WALL STREET JOURNAL is a Rupert Murdoch rag? In other words it's FOX LIES.
You didn't provide the date. Saturday I saw 2 Senators on TV saying they are not coming back.
and CNN, MSN, ABC are truthsayers? Get real, you have a dozen left wing media outlets and only one consevative, if FOX lies, it liies less than the mentioned and NPR
Bob's 1st is true- Dems want to meet with Walker at the stateline for one more try at compromise from him.
2nd- BS Fox6, Fox11, Fox47, etal are not in any way unbiased. Surprise! This rumor was disproved by the DA in Madison. Nice try though.
cal20
and CNN, MSN, ABC are truthsayers? Get real, you have a dozen left wing media outlets and only one consevative, if FOX lies, it liies less than the mentioned and NPR
cal20
Nevertheless, a FOX LIE is still a LIE or LIES not matter what the ratio is!!!
Here is another source:
Sorry for some reason links are not showing in my posts:
"http:\/\/www.freerepublic.com\/focus/\f-bloggers\/2684686\/posts"
another interesting perspective:
"www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/michigan-experience_553010.html"
Bob -"There is collusion between some politicians and public sector employee unions."
There is collusion between some politicians and large, profitable corporations. Corporations support Republicans in order to promote policies that benefit their corporations.
Unions support Democrats to promote policies that benefit the working people of America.
If anyone can do it, everyone should be allowed to do it. I, personally think no one should be allowed to do it. Campaigns should be funded by individual donations only and there should be a limit on the amounts allowed. However, our laws allow corporations and unions to make unlimited campaign donations. The playing field is tilted because there are so many more corporations than unions, but you appear to want the playing field to be so tilted that everyone falls off one side. Is there no such thing as honor any more?
The cowards are still afraid to return to their own state, so they actually want government to relocate to them... idiots.
"Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker on Monday dismissed as "ridiculous" a letter from a Democratic state Senate leader who suggested a meeting "near the Wisconsin-Illinois border" to discuss the state's budget impasse."
http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/03/07/wisconsin.budget/index.html?hpt=T2
Yeah sure!
The Koch brothers and their puppets like Scott Walker are just benevolent old grandfathers looking out for what's best for all of us - right?
Then, why all the secrecy about when they and their cronies met with Dick Cheney? If they're all about what's good for everyone, why would they want to keep it a secret?
Simply put, if you have nothing to hide, why are you trying so hard to hide it?
Tom Strange
Yes, Tom why are the Dems trying to keep spending money they don't have? I'm really interested in answering that, both in Wisconsin and Washington.
earn $2 ... spend $3.78. Good formula for success!
Karl Rove taught Republicans politics is all about the optics: use the right code words, roll up your sleeves on camera, have the right backdrop or podium sign in front of you, and you can pass any policy you'd like.
Unfortunately, Republicans haven't learned from the record low approval ratings this earned George W Bush by the end of his term, that constituents also expect substance, honesty and compromise from their elected officials.
Good insight into Rove's malignant influence on the GOP stategy.
If ever there was a wannabe, it's Karl Rove. He hasn't run for office, no doubt there are too many skeletons in his closet to allow it. He tries to be Mr Power Broker of the GOP by sitting in the background, manipulating the strings of the Repub marionettes, teling all of them who cannot think for themselves what to do and how to do it. If anyone is old enough to remember the Heinous Lee Attwater, you will also know who his whipping boy was, none other than Rove. And Rove hoped like the very devil to grow up to be just like good old Lee, and to this day he strives to "become" him. Quite an aspiration there, Karl! Someone very wise once said, "Birds of a Feather...".
The Democrats are not 'running and hiding' they have openly asked to talk..and due to Walkers own admission that he would use any chance to trick the Democrats (Even by pretending to listen as he admitted in his call with 'Punker Koch') you know he cannot be trusted, so it must be on neutral ground.
He calls the idea of talking "ridiculous'. Ridiculous is refusing to even talk, to attempt to work it out. Every day he keeps this up he slips more, and he hurts the Republicans more. You know...hey...let him refuse all year.
 It will be very interesting to see the future of the republican control in the future after walkers major mistakes he is making on the issue of state employees. It seems as tho someone will have to knock him up side of his head to knock some sense into him if he hopes to survive in his own party. I think its great to watch and root on the democrats
You are correct, sir. Even if this battle is eventually lost, it won't be lost forever. And in the meantime, Walker knows that he has three years and nine months where he will effectively have lost control of state government. And recalls are currently pending on legislators, so that he may literally lose control of state government.
I wonder why no one has compared him yet to the emperor with no clothes.
Very well, I will. It will be hard to govern when every one has seen you naked and you failed to measure ... well, that would be uncharitable, wouldn't it?
JOHN DEGROOT
It will be very interesting to see the future of the republican control in the future after walkers major mistakes he is making on the issue of state employees. It seems as tho someone will have to knock him up side of his head to knock some sense into him if he hopes to survive in his own party. I think its great to watch and root on the democrats.
John,
Considering Gov. Walker is only a high school because he got kicked out of college for cheating, I doubt if knocking him up side his head will do any good.
He didn't learn his lesson then and probably won't now. Most punks think being slick and lying gets them over.
Since the Republicans took over the legislature and governorship of the state of Maine, we have seen nothing but controversy and divisiveness. What is wrong with the Tea Party that they can't win support for their policies through persuasion and results? Our governor insists on insulting any group of people who disagrees with him, from environmentalists to the NAACP to the local newspapers - and all our newspapers are owned by Republicans! He was elected to govern the state and he goes about it by insulting public servants, teachers, and state workers. I'm starting to consider calling someone a "government bureaucrat" a compliment.
Remember to support the unions/public workers in Ohio, Indiana, Ky, etc. They are all going through the same issue and smoke and mirrors by rewarding the rich and corporations who shipped the jobs overseas because the millions they were making were inadequate, they wanted billions and balancing the budget on the poor and middle class.
Remember less than 2% own 90% of the wealth of this country and they didn't get it by creating jobs in this country. About 30 yrs ago the about 10% owned 90% of the wealth you don't think it is by accident or good business that 2% own it?
When they say trickle down economics are yellow it is because you are being pissed on.
Iowa's republican Governor and House are also attempting to undermine collective bargaining. Branstad has verbally backed off a bit but he's still trying. The reason their actions in Iowa do not have the same nationwide attention or impact is that democrats still control the State Senate where it is unlikely to pass any such legislation this year.
The assumption is that Walker wants to continue.
First we need more people concerned with getting things done and not with getting a tenured spot in the government gravy train. Was this not the goal when most of the nation looked for term limits?
Second Walker can now make more on the public speakers ciruuit then he would ever make in office. Palin is an example of this tactic. Who wants the headache of public office when you can just give a speach or two for the same money?
Finally we should all look to form new parties as Dem and Rep are both to blame. Here we sit and argue about issues that we have have the information about and most of that information is incorrect. Transparency is our only hope and I don't see that coming anytime soon.
If politicians are recalled in Wisconsin, how do they get replaced? Is there a special election or are the replacements appointed by the governor?
Is here some clause in the state constitution that allows for recall of a reptresentative or of the governor because the electorate are pissed off with him? Doesn't he have to commit a crime or something?
Governor Walker's Nose Keeps Growing
Governor Walker's "reversal of fortune" may have something to do with the fact that he LIES, and that he LIES OFTEN. Most people in Wisconsin prefer that their politicians not lie.
Last Monday, I had tallied only had 8 or 9 of his lies. Now we’re up to 20 and counting. Trust much? Nope.
http://filterednews.wordpress.com/2011/03/05/20-lies-and-counting-told-by-gov-walker/
Good morning Anna Molly
Governor Walker's Nose Keeps Growing
Governor Walker's "reversal of fortune" may have something to do with the fact that he LIES, and that he LIES OFTEN. Most people in Wisconsin prefer that their politicians not lie.
Thank you for the link. I bookmarked it so when the trolls come I'll be able to link the trolls dwelling in their fact-less state to real documented facts.
As usual you have brought clarity to the issues. What a treasure you are.
If the people of Wisconsin are that ignorant that they believe the unions are the answer to all their problems then I say let them sink! Try running a business without a budget in place that you must live within, the only place you will run it is into the ground! These people believe their is an endless supply of cash to pay them as the government can just raise taxes on the people. Time for the people to stand up and tell these union people try standing on their own two feet and put in a real days work where you are judged and rewarded on the merits of your accomplishments.
@fedup: Try making a budget that makes sense, instead of a pile of manure. The gov is driving his economy into the ground, and people do have a right to negotiate a wage. What is it, you do understand? That people can not bargain for their contracts...? Contracts are 'budgets', they don't 'get more' down the road, unless there is another contract... But corruption has taken a toll, on THE TOP, unions included. That's why I don't want to punish the rank and file, people, whether they are union or not. It is corruption, from the TOP that lost the money. Social secutity funds didn't 'vanish' because people took MORE than they were entitled... the monies were 'taken' and 'used' elsewhere, from the top. The people should get their social secuity monies paid back... that is the agreement... that is what you seem to not get, FEDUP. You think entitlements are wrong, don't you...? Do you understand the meaning of the word, FEDUP? It means that people are entitled to have something: LIKE THEIR MONEY RETURNED... WITH INTEREST! People have already earned, what it is the gov wants to take away... you can't get that? He wants more, than he has... not the other way around. He has lost control of his budget... so now you think he can come after... YOU? Or whomever he choses? Move to Gadafi land... he's real confused now, too. Maybe you two could set the rest of this crazy world straight... He might even want to join the TP?
You need to get off your self-congratulating high horse. That's what I do every day, but I don't begrudge to others the fact that they've been asked to work in government service, and that they deserve a decent wage and benefits for doing so. Many of them, not the least of which are public school teachers, are deeply dedicated to service and far more worthy than those who post such derogatory things about them here. From the insulting and demeaning way you refer to others you know nothing about, I suspect that MOST of them are far more worthy than you, no matter how much you exalt yourself in your own mind.
On a previous thread, someone mocked the fact that Hector DeLuca, noted UW Madison professor of biochemistry, gets paid a lot of money -- about $247,000 a year. Apparently, DeLuca is deemed unworthy merely because he works in the public sector. Well. Tell that to the real people who benefit every day from DeLuca's extremely important research. Tell that to all of the people who have learned from DeLuca and gone on to become successful scientists, themselves, and made their own discoveries.
And finally, tell it to the private sector, which has profited BIG TIME from DeLuca's research.
http://www.biochem.wisc.edu/faculty/deluca/
And yet, DeLuca gets paid quite a bit less than Jim Haney, head of the Wisconsin business UNION, called Wisconsin Manufacturers and Commerce. Haney, who produces NOTHING, last year was paid $341,000, including $89.000 in pension contributions, and $9,000 in "other benefits."
Talk about an "endless supply of cash." Talk about bloated pay and benefits.
http://host.madison.com/ct/business/biz_beat/article_8595d11a-45bd-11e0-82bf-001cc4c002e0.html
In the meantime, Haney proposes that Wisconsin will pay off its deficit by all the taxes it will raise from the $30,000-a-year jobs that will be created by Walker's budget bill.
http://host.madison.com/ct/business/biz_beat/article_98606c30-4511-11e0-9f5e-001cc4c03286.html
That $30,000 number is apparently inclusive of benefits, if any. Well, isn't that generous. That's really something to aspire to, isn't it? That's what business is willing to do for you.
And if that's not a plan to pay off the deficit on the backs of the middle class, then I don't know what is.
Talk about ignorant. You should be ashamed of yourself. Look it up and learn something.
Fedup. Are you really saying that you don't think teachers "put in a real days work"? Are you really saying that teachers don't deserve to be paid for the job that they do? Are you really saying that they are asking for "an endless supply of cash" when they have agreed to take more of their salaries and contribute it to their pensions to make up the losses incurred by the government's poor investment of their pension funds? You have a very strange way of looking at things.
I'd like to think the 19 republican senators are beginning to pay attention to these numbers - after all, the measure must be voted upon. Much as he APPEARS, Walker is not the state's dictator.
As I have said before, walker does as the Koch brothers dictate and their "plot" goes much deeper than destroying collective bargaining. Their target is a utility monopoly in Wisconsin.
There's actually a lot of evidence for what you say:
http://ecopolitology.org/2011/02/28/in-wisconsin-koch-brothers-have-much-more-to-gain-than-power-plants/
Add to this those supposedly old and broken down power plants that Walker wants to sell without getting any bids. Who would buy such supposed boondoggles, anyway, unless they thought they could make a buck or two off it?
Yeah, funny how he slipped in that little item about "no bid" contracts for public untilities. He gives new meaning to the word, Slimeball! He's also got that little thing about privitizing the Univ. of Wis., Madsion, and the huge cut to Medicaid, which would take off as many as 200,000 poor and needy children and mothers. He's a real prince, and so typical of the tea baggers.
Jim: I wholeheartedly agree that the No Bid fix for his Pimps, the Koch Bros has been the target since day 1. The Budget was the talking point (lie) to solidify his base for action because yes there is need for getting the financial house in order but not at the cost of raising the debt by doling out tax breaks to the wealthy minority over the struggling middle class majority (vast majority). The Union Busting was to be the bait to ensnare the Tea-bagging Curious into the harem of Koch Bros whores, whom Walker is A #1 bitch, he lovey lovey Bros long time. Looks like the Koch Bros reach-around has turned into a serious overreach! Just as an asides, I can't help but wonder if that bald patch on Walkers head is from the thumbs of the Koch Bros creating a worn spot keeping Walker's head in the right position.
Jim....Add Karl "The Architect" Rove to the Koch fraternity. Just last week, AP printed an article with Rove asserting that he is raising millions to support Walker. If the RNC was thinking "Walker For President", they'd better think again. Rove also said he intends to raise billions from his Corporate CEOs to insure that the Republicans regain control of the White House.
What do you call that? Using those who have more money than any of us, pitted we, the people, against, they the Biggie Piggies? It makes it abundantly clear why Republicans do nothing for this country and everything to insure that the wealth continues to grow. Money is power. Not even the Republicans ignore that one. Keep the power in the hands of the Biggie Piggies and see how fast your country is in takeover mode.
With Republicans, elections with popular vote are "for show" only. The backroom deals with their new Middle Class Billionaires is where it all goes down.
Don't get how so many don't get it by now that this gov is simply trying to fatten his own wallet via the Koch bros, before getting out and retiring with a ton of payoff money. Whether you like or hate unions this isn't about them, it's about this man doing a "hit job" so he can be paid his fee for the deed. The Reps really have to stand for the RIGHT THING TO DO, not help this jerk in his greed. The Dems are hiding to PROTECT people being in his sights, and protect rights of people in general. There is a right way to work on problems, and a wrong way. How can this gov NOT be removed immediately for conduct unbecoming a human being, and using illegal means to benefit himself? Republicans who don't immediately do all they can to stop this monster better look for another job fast. Maybe they can go work for the Kochs, who will now hire them with no protections given to them and for dirt cheap pay. Boycott anything with the Koch name on it!
substitute Soros for Koch
And substitute ignorance for cal20. Soros does not have a "secret agenda" to destroy education, the environment, the middle class, and financial regulation, unlike certain brothers we know. And as far as I know, Soros didn't pour nearly $3.5 million into the last election for the benefit of Scott Walker, like those brothers did. And Soros didn't sponsor a bus tour for Governor Walker to advance his agenda around the state, like those brothers did.
Look it up. You might learn something.
http://images2.americanprogressaction.org/ThinkProgress/secretkochmeeting.pdf
http://my.madison.com/forums/Topic4462278-2890-1.aspx
http://www.fightbackwisconsin.com/index.php?PageID=55
http://www.wispolitics.com/index.iml?Article=229162
Silly ewent. Don't you know that we're all equal here?
It's just that some of us are more equal than others.
(For those who don't get the reference -- George Orwell's "Animal Farm." Look it up and learn.}
Soros contributes to progressive causes to help the working people of this country and to help the less fortunate. The Kochs contribute to regressive causes to help the corporations of this country (mainly THEIR corporations).
Patrick Salt Lake City
Bob. The Democrats have won, so no point is staying away.
They've won what?
The minute they return they lose the vote, the unions lose the fight, and Walker and the Republicans win. All you've got to hang your hat on is all this bravado about a sleeping giant? Good luck.
Jan55
Patrick Salt Lake City
Bob. The Democrats have won, so no point is staying away.
They've won what?
The minute they return they lose the vote, the unions lose the fight, and Walker and the Republicans win. All you've got to hang your hat on is all this bravado about a sleeping giant? Good luck.
CREW (Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington) has struck another blow for what is right. They are charging that Koch Henchman Scott Walker violated state law by sending state troops after missing legislator
And of course, that is exactly what this dispute is about, as Senate Bill 11 makes clear: the “compensation and fringe benefits of public employees.”
http://www.politicususa.com/en/crew-walker-violating-law
=======================================================
Scott Walker Has Become Wile E. Coyote
Walker is at the point of no return, just like Wile E. Coyote when he discovers he's over the edge and there's nothing left but the fall.
http://thepoliticalenvironment.blogspot.com/2011/03/scott-walker-has-become-wile-e-coyote.html
While the Senate may lawfully impose penalties on its absent members, and may direct the Sergeant at Arms to proceed to find and bring in such members, the Senate has no authority to issue a warrant for the arrest of its members.
http://thepoliticalenvironment.blogspot.com/2011/03/madison-attorneys-allege-illegal.html
Since Anna Molly speaks legalese and I don't maybe she will interpret what your implications mean.
Anna Molly will be so kind to that for us
Thank you in advance
doesn't say he can't either! In fact it is not really saying anything about it!!!
There is one simple solution - RECALL WALKER
can't do it for 12 months - part of the wi constitution.
Oh, really, waukone? Is that by any chance the same constitution that Walker swears he is bound to follow? Just askin'...
they have got to wait one full year to recall Walker . but there is some of the conservatives in the senate like 8 of them that can be recalled . they need to start there first . then one year from January then recall Walker. there should not be a time table to when you can or cannot recall anybody . it is to long to put up with someone like Walker. they may have legal causes to impeach him or put him on trial . they are looking in to that . you no that is not the worst thing the the Conservatives are doing . they are trying to get it to where that if the town you are living in is in the red and the Governor will send in a man and make him county executive and he will look at the books of the town and he and he alone no matter what your mayor says or counsolman say if he thinks that the countor town is in debt he will declare it insolvent and start selling off your township and you will have no town .just one man will decided this no matter what anyone or how many thinks it will be ok he will still do this . this Is the GOP . there is another thing the GOP is going to try to do and that is make it harder and harder for the young to vote and they say so . they say that the young one are foolish and don't no what is right for them . I say to the GOP go straight to he--.
the GOP don't care about the constitution if it gets in their way . like George said it needs to be changed
"With thunderous applause liberty dies" -star wars
Never has a line in a movie made more sense to me than today. The individuals in this country sold there rights to speak collectively for a twenty dollar tax cut. Wow. Funny that these same people say they want their country back. Do they realize that the bill has no bid contracts in it. If that is not UN- American I dont know what is? The Governor decides who get public contracts with no oversight? No checks and balance really? "With thunderous applause libery dies". One individual by themseleves stands no chance of changing this government by themselves but together we can. This is one of the true premises behind unions. It as american as apple pie. However we have been persuaded with a cheap bribe of tax cuts that dont even go to us but to corporations who have chosen to leave OUR COUNTRY to make a buck. Why do we not refuse to do business with those corporations instead of allowing them to hold us hostage to what they think we should make. They are in a sense, forget that, they are forcing you to be happy making what they make in; INDIA,CHINA,MEXICO,INDONESIA, ect. Its funny that true americans would say no way will we let that happen to my country, but it seems that they have "Sold there soul to the devil and the price was cheap."
In Michigan they have voted to allow the Governor to come in and set up a special manger that can override the mayors, city councils, i.e. local governments to change things that the governor thinks needs to changed. Let me get this straight, that is american? Replace the elected officials with one all powerful non-elected official? This is going on all over this country from WISCONSIN, OHIO,MICHIGAN,NEW JERSEY, FLORIDA, to ARIZONA. AND "WITH THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE LIBERTY DIES!!!"
This Wisconsin story has opened my eyes to how corrupt government has truly become. It is more than a union debate to me Its become so much more. I lost so much in the past two decades hearing we must tighten our belts crap.I had nobody to run to protect me They will not stop taking until everything is controlled by them. Every American needs to wake up and smell the coffee they will come after you next.
Barb,
What you have seen is exactly what made Unions necessary in the first place. We all reach a point where all give and no take destroys us.
Yes this is the reason we need unions - at the same time I want to hold them accountable.
It has been a crime that productivity has boomed and no real increase in wages (same buying power of the late 70's) and the differences between owners at 300X the lowest paid worker have now expanded to 2000X+ over the lowest paid workers. Where now 90% of the wealth of the country is concentrated in 2% of the population? Where tax credits are given to companies who post BILLIONS in quarterly profits?
Where we give tax credits to companies who send jobs oversea's? Where republicans and 'conservative' democrates block discontinuing these tax credits? And the list goes on.
Barb H. True. It puzzles me why middle class republicans fail to see that if the unions disappear completely, their wages and benefits are subject to the whims of big business. There will be no competitive union standard to follow. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to realize that the next target is nonunion workers.
For the progressives who stayed away from the polls in 2012 because they were unhappy with President Obama. I hope the events of the first couple of months of republicans in charge have woken you up.
I am awake and I like what I see. Thinking of switching to the Rep party, I don't agree with DEMs on too much these days.
I am so pissed at the progressives for not showing up - I voted and dragged everyone I knew. I told them you don't want to miss this it is really going to be bad if you don't vote dem. I am from WI.
Its still a free country. What is it that you like?
@waukone keep working toward 2012. I know what you mean but we can't give up!
You have the recall and that's about all. Somebody get it started before this idiot ruins the whole state of Wisconsin. The guy is bought and paid for by the big guys. Get rid of him now!
every time the libs allude to big guys or the Brothers, change the name to Soros or Union Bosses.
Ruin the state of Wisconsin???? Are you for real? It's 3.6 billion dollars in the hole idiot! He's trying to get a grip on the over expenditures. But Union people always say 'Cut everyone's pay but mine! Cut everyone's job but mine! Cut every gov program but the one that I work for! I'm OK with that'
Ignorant selfish BS. I don't have a job and can't afford your mentality.
and I say fire the 'Band of 14'. Losers. What if Republicans ran when Dems wanted to pass a bill? Civil war in a freakin week.
Wisconsin is not broke; Wisconsin politics? Maybe. Our governor has decided he has to balance his budget on the backs of working men and women. When the working middle class no longer has money to spend, how's that going to help his budget? One thing's guaranteed: conservatives will continue to blame the middle class for the problems in our state (and our country). I'm not sure they will be happy until they have their plutocracy firmly in place.
Not sure where you are getting your numbers but Wisconsin is broke. Your previous governor was pulling the wool over you eyes. You will probably say(But he gave a bunch of tax breaks to business, yes but those will not happen until 2012, next years budget) Here are all the payments that are due in the next couple of month:
The State of Wisconsin is facing a $136.7 million deficit for fiscal year 2010-2011 (FY11). Specifically, the FY 11 deficit is caused by:
FY 2010-11 General Fund Balance - $67.4 Million
Lapses from accounts with balance deficits as identified by Legislative Audit Bureau’s report of January 20, 2011 - ($45.3 Million)
Reduction in Estimated Tax Collections - ($12.9 Million)
Increase in Department Revenues - $20.7 Million
Reduction in Expenditures due to reduction in debt service - $69.6 Million
Higher than expected Appropriation Lapses - $21.9 Million
FY 2010-11 Adjusted General Fund Balance - $121.4 Million
Tax Reciprocity Bill owed to the State of Minnesota - ($58.7 Million)
(Daily Interest associated with reciprocity bill is $4,584.)
Deficit in Medical Assistance Programs to fulfill spending requirements under current law - ($153.2 Million)
Deficit in Medical Assistance admin services - ($16 Million)
Deficit in Income Maintenance Activities - ($5 Million)
Deficit in State Public Defenders Office - ($3.5 Million)
Deficit in Department of Corrections - ($21.7 Million)
Fiscal Year 2010-11 Deficit - ($136.7 Million)
Also looming is a required $200 million payment owed to the Injured Patients and Families Compensation Fund.
The more I research the higher the deficit estimates go
"maciverinstitute.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Picture-26.png"
MacIver analysts included $1.5 billion Wisconsin owes the federal government for unemployment reserve loans and they also calculated the current year’s deficit to be $145.4 million.
Completely false analogy. Read my post above. And look it up and learn.
The unions agreed to the cuts in pay and benefits. Governor Walker isn't satisfied with that. He just wants to bust the unions. This has nothing to do with the budget anymore. It is about taking more away from the middle class. It is about him cutting nearly a BILLION dollars from Education. It is about him attempting to sell the utilities at any cost with no bids to the Koch bros, who fund the Republican Party! The rich are getting richer and the rest of us are getting poorer, or soon will be. They are the reason you don't have a job, not the unions. And your post sounds like ignorant, selfish BS.
Walker is NOT talking away all collective bargaining, He is allowing bargaining up to cost of living increase(that is better than most of us non-union workers).
If you don't take away collective bargaining what is to stop unions from reimposing the cuts that they gave away this year, in one year, or two years?
Here is what I think additional needs to happen
(1) Pensions need to be converted to 401K (let union/public employees feel the pinch when the stock market goes down, just like every non-union worker does today)
(2) let union/public employees choose a general plan used by most businesses and NOT any cadillac plan and make them pay a percentage of the plan typical of most non union/public employee.
(3) make it easier for non-performing teachers/public employees to be terminated(if you want to improve our education). Don't reward mediocrity!
(4) reward exceptional teachers/public employees(make sure we are keeping the best of the best).
Put my money in the hands of the stock market????? Absolutely NOT!!!!!! The worst bunch of thieves in the history of the world. Is this the plan? To get the few dollars I have saved through my life into the hands of the STOCK MARKET????? I would rather put it under my matress.
Yes the funds that have my money reserved for my pension do invest in that evil place. But I am smart enough to know I don't have knowlege enough of individual companies and the people that control those companies to even start to trust them. I spent my time learning to do my job better, to supply my community with potable water that was safe to drink, and to operate a sewage treatment plant that took your waste and returned the former waste water into the water table in a safe and replenishing way. I worked and studied, studied and worked I worked for my community for a set salary, no overtime, and for a smaller amount than I would receive in private industry, including benefits that were less as well. Now at 72 years old people like you want to change the agreement, reneg on the contract previously made.
Go ahead and do it, but remember someday you will be in the same position. My day is nearly past now, but yours has yet to come, and then turn about will be considered fair play. Good luck with that!!!!!!!
I'm a union member. I also support Gov. Walker, far to long Public unions have abused their power. Private sector unions have made health care and pension concessions for years. If we allow public Unions to negotiate, what will change? They tried to ram a binding contract down Our throats in December and Janurary. The only reason they want to negotiate now, is that they dont have the votes needed to win. The next time they do, the raping of taxpayers will begin anew. We are their employers, Not their unions!! Wake up taxpayers We can not sustain This level of Goverment. Lay them al off and hire people who need jobs. They will come back eager to work. I am not for busting unions, as long as unions don't bust Us.
GOOD FOR YOU! These UNIONS need to be booted OUT! We TAXPAYERS have NO responsibility for them whatsoever. And why these Union people don't smarten up and give themselves some raises instead of fattening the Union BOSSE'S pockets are beyond me. VOTE ALL PROGRESSIVE/SOCIALIST DEMS OUT 2012
You'll excuse me while I just take these 11 cookies on your plate, but watch out for that union guy over there, because he wants the other one.
What a childish argument. I don't have that so you shouldn't have it either. A little kid says that.
Wake up before it's too late. Take away pension benefits from public unions won't get them back for YOU. Only YOU can do that for yourself. The fact that you've agreed to concessions is not a reason why others should. It only shows your own weakness and inability to understand that your corporate masters do NOT have your best interests at heart. Answer this: Did all those "concessions" end up saving jobs during this recession? I sincerely doubt it. They just robbed you and sent the jobs overseas anyway. That's what the big lie of NAFTA did for you. Public unions didn't do that.
And if you don't like how they negotiate, then do something about that. Get on a school board, or a village board, or a city council and show them how it's done. Stop blaming the unions for being better negotiators than their employers -- that's YOU, by the way, as you state yourself.
Unions don't bust you. Corporations bust you. And you bust yourself.
By the way, I'm not a member of a union, either public or otherwise, and I pay 100 percent of my own pension and health care. So don't bother to go there. I just care about people. Corporations don't. And neither does Governor Walker.
@annirich: When a public employee earns a paycheck, it ISN'T YOUR MONEY, ANYMORE. It belongs to them and they have a right to spend it on anything they like. As a "taxpayer," you don't get to dictate how they spend what they have earned, any more than your employer gets to dictate how YOU spend YOUR paycheck. If you don't like unions, it just goes to show how weak your local governments are. Too weak to bargain with a teacher? Seriously.
Right, like people in public unions don't pay taxes like everyone else? So just drop the unfairness argument about who shares the burden for these costs.
It's been reported a number of times that the public employees in Wisconsin have conceded to most of Walker's demands. They are willing to do their part to help the economy of their state. It's Walker and his corporate masters who won't compromise. And, BTW, what you just stated about public unions is exactly what the majority of conservatives think about ALL unions, yours included.
I have to agree with this poster. I saw an interesting speach by Bill Gates on TED (www.hulu.com) where he talked about how State Budgets matter. There is only so much money in the kitty. Would you rather it go to the retirees or to educating the children because most states can no longer do both.
I have never belonged to a Union. I worked in the private sector for over 20 years - paying for half or more of my health benefits and all of my 401K contributions with the company's I worked for doing matches some of the time - sometimes no match. Now I own my own business and pay for all of my health care and all of my retirement savings.
I am unclear why the teachers need such a strong union. Why can't the marketplace dictate pay and benefits. If the pay and benefits are not commensurate with the work the schools will not be able to attract qualified teachers. If a teacher is good and/or has special skills like math or science training he/she should be able to negotiate their pay or move to a school district where the pay is higher or quite frankly get out of the profession if it doesn't pay the bills.
Unions have in a large part brought this backlash on themselves by continuing to fight for unsustainable benefits. People live longer then they used to. Healthcare is more expensive then it used to be. Just like private unions public unions need to understand that the current benefit programs are simply financially unsustainable. In this day and age of soundbites it is tough to get the whole picture on this story. One thing I did find interesting is that the teachers have a separate health care provider than State workers and according to the story I saw just moving them to the State health care provider program would save the school districts something like $68M. While I wold agree with a lot of posters that Gov Walker has goals in this fight other than just balancing the budget I think it is a conversation that many Union heavy states will be having over the next year or so.
Hi Tigercat,
The reason is that there is no "Marketplace" for teachers. Most states set teacher salaries by fiat, not by competition. So their only other option is to leave the industry all together. With out collective barganing for teachers, legislatures could change their salary any time their is a budget crisis, and they would just have to suck it up.
I for one, want the best possible teachers for my kids, if that means attracting quality talent, by paying a bit more property taxes, fine. At the same time I intend to be very active in the PTA and School Board, to ensure they are managing those teachers properly. That is how you ensure high quality education, NOT by busting their union.
Point 1 - the unions agreed to all the financial demands Walker made 3 days after the dem's left for the great state of Ill.
Point 2 - the collective bargaining covers more than health and pay. It covers safety, class room size, supplies, books, etc.
Point 3 - where go union wages goes private wages, if you think they are low now watch what happens when thousand of degreed people hit the streets and suck up what jobs there are and watch you wages continue to do down because there is no bench mark.
Point 4 - Tax credits for the rich/corporation while getting the approval to sell state assets to whom ever they want with no requirement for competitive bids.
ETC>
Hey ya all better look at California to see what happens when you SPEND money you don't have = Bankruptcy
State governments wouldn't be broke if they weren't sidling up to Big Business. Sure, Republicans have used the arguments that Big Business does the hiring, Big Business provides trade...not anymore. Look at what Big Business really does...paper deals on paper goods that don't exist in this country, paper employees contracted at salaries Americans can't live on because Big Business is price gouging our goods to the max. But, these loonies never figured out that if we, as Americans, are unable to afford their goods, how do they figure foreign countries where the salaries are $11 a month will be able to buy what Corporate America is selling.
One other big big big Republican whine, states are going broke. Oh really? How many tax credits, loopholes and other benefits are taxpayers paying Big Business in their state for? Then, you've got the states like Alaska, Texas, Kentucky, Virginia and Georgia who rely heavily on federal funds to infuse their state's economy in exchange for guns, military equipment, oil, prisons, military bases etc.
Picture fuzzy yet for those poor bedraggled, poverty stricken (NOT) states? All anyone has to do is take a good look at my state, NJ, employers get a $5,000 tax break for every new hire. They get another tax break in the Urban Enterprise Zones, they get Farmland subsidies even if they sell 10 bales of hay and guess, just guess, who takes most advantage of that one? The McMillionaires owning those NJ estates.
When our Governor says "we all have to sacrifice", who is he really referring? The rich who don't ever feel any pain? Or the people who are on unemployment thanks to the geniuses who dumped them there? Sorry, Governor Christie. My belt is so tight, my circulation is cut off. How about you and your rich boys feel a little of the pain all of the Republicans are forcing the rest of us to endure?
You want blowback? Keep telling us to sacrifice while the rich boys lavish themselves with a fleet of gas guzzlers, another vacation home in the South of France and the rest of the foo foo overindulgences. In a democracy, one man/woman is no better than any other simply because he knows how to take more out of the system than he puts back in.
It's funny, how folks can blame this problem on unions. The budgets, when proposed, include union contracts. Then when the GOV runs short, because he didn't have a real good budget in operation, he blames the people who worked for their money... They didn't overspend the budget, HE DID! And he is overreaching again, to say that people don't have a right, to negotiate their wages. The unions didn't go on stike to strong arm the budget, for MORE... the GOV did. And when his 'budget' concern was solved, (not across the board, by everyone, but through targeting certain folks), he wasn't satisified... he bullied/strong armed for MORE. He is the agent of destruction, for anybody who doesn't give HIM what HE wants... not the union's, rank and file, who did right by everyone. Tyranny is the same animal, regardless of any phoney rhetoric.
Tigercat ~ If you've been reading anything at all, then you'd know that Walker plans to take it away from the teachers AND from the kids. The kids will benefit NOTHING from this ploy of Walker's.
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_5abf01a0-444b-11e0-9c33-001cc4c03286.html
The cuts detailed in this article were in place in Walker's budget bill all the time, even though he thought he would be able to ram the budget repair bill home without any effort because of the republican controlled legislature. It's clear from his proposals that Scott Walker is NOT looking out for kids.
Now, before you start telling me what Bill Gates says about how public employees should be the ones who pay, I think it's only fair to point out to you how Bill Gates treated his OWN employees by improperly and illegally classifying THEM as independent contractors, so they were not eligible for benefits, until the federal government finally caught up with him.
Any two-bit lawyer could have told him what he was doing was illegal. Thus, the only conclusion one can draw is that he knew it, and did it anyway. And that just about sums up Bill Gates.
http://library.findlaw.com/1999/Jun/1/127430.html
http://www.techlawjournal.com/courts/vizcaino/19990512.htm
(Vizcaino v. Microsoft)
As a paragon of virtue on worker issues, Gates doesn't cut it.
As an expert on education, Gates doesn't cut it.
As a proponent of free markets, Gates doesn't cut it, either, as the many competitors who have sued him over the years have learned. Gates doesn't play fair.
As a software developer ... well, let's just say I have Macs.
So citing Gates as a source on this issue, or just about any other, really, is about as credible as you might say Michael Moore would be, and even less.
Now THERE's a good argument. Just hand the cookies over, will you, and get it over with? The Koch brothers need them a LOT more than you do. After all, that's how they got all those billions of dollars in the first place. Off the backs of people who think like you do.
It seems to me that living longer is an argument in favor of BETTER benefits, not fewer benefits. How do you expect people to live so much longer on LESS? Especially when you also want to take the government safety net programs away. Just work forever even when there are no jobs available for you. While the Koch brothers are on a beach somewhere enjoying what they managed to wrestle away from you for themselves.
You're no Tigercat if you buy into that.
Anna Molly I disagree with your comment:
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Tigercat ~ If you've been reading anything at all, then you'd know that Walker plans to take it away from the teachers AND from the kids. The kids will benefit NOTHING from this ploy of Walker's.
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Actually they may get a KEY benefit, under-performing teachers can be let go, we can keep the best of the best and better reward the best performing teachers. In addition teachers won't have to/or won't feel compelled to pay union dues. If we convert teacher pensions to 401K then we can let them choose the risk/reward and not but the burden on the tax payer.
Ya THINK????
As I said above, Scott Walker's era of effective governing of Wisconsin is OVER. No one will trust that sniveling little liar anymore no matter what happens with the budget repair bill. The same thing is true for the legislature, which is now facing recall. And his budget bill is nowhere near passage yet.
If you don't believe that he's already gambled and lost, then you need to live here.
What budget? The 2009-2010 legislators kicked the budget down the road. The had one terrible sunshine budget and even in a Democrat Majority legislation they failed to pass the teachers contract. Heck one even walked out.
What teacher's contract? In Wisconsin, teacher's contracts are negotiated locally. And whatever budget you are saying they didn't have, we were nevertheless about to experience a biennial SURPLUS until Scott Walker and the republicans KICKED THAT DOWN THE ROAD in the January special session with $140 million in new tax breaks for the wealthy.
If the budget situation was already so desperate, what was THAT all about, anyway? Effective governing, not.
But I was referring to the budget bill Walker unveiled on Tuesday. Here's just one article of many that discuss it. Read about it:
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_5abf01a0-444b-11e0-9c33-001cc4c03286.html
Molly, think you may want to look at the total deficit again. It's not about a mere 140 million.
True, Jim, but the budget repair bill was originally justified as being needed to close a hole in the current biennial budget, projected to be about $137 million -- or almost exactly what Walker had just KICKED DOWN THE ROAD in the special session. There is no possible rational explanation for passing those tax breaks in the middle of a supposed fiscal crisis unless you are an incredibly clueless mismanager -- which Walker has been accused of being in Milwaukee County -- AND/OR you were TRYING to create a hole that would desperately need filling so you could ram the repair bill through AHEAD of the rest of the budget, when people would not be paying close attention. The rest of Walker's budget plan is supposed to deal with the rest of the deficit, and he had to know what a ruckus that would raise. He would never had gotten his collective bargaining changes through as part of the regular budget bill, for which specific rules apply.
By the way, the rest of the deficit is discussed in the article I cited above your post. So, please Jim, don't condescend to me by telling me I need to rethink it. I've already thought about it. But I'm not sure you have.
Anna Molly
I think the previous governor was pulling the wool over you eyes. There was no surplus(it was funny accounting and real payments that have to be made were NOT accounting for)
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Are you referring to the following bills that Walker has proposed/passed:
Mainly the two tax cuts he's already signed, along with one that's passed the Assembly, would add roughly $117 million to the state's budget problem over the next two years. So you CANNOT say the 117million is contributing to the current deficit!!!
(1) Companies that relocate to Wisconsin won't have to pay income taxes for two years under a bill signed into law Monday by Gov. Scott Walker(expected to be ~1million) (seem beneficial to stimulating business relocation to Wis)
(2) Another tax cut Walker is backing that's tied to every new job created would come with a tax benefit of only between roughly $90 and $315 per job. (seems like this would be pretty useful for stimulating jobs and new additional tax revenue, dont you think) ( ~67million)
The deal would extend a $4,000 tax deduction for every job created for companies that have less than $5 million a year in gross receipt
(3) Walker previously signed into law a bill that eliminates state income taxes on contributions made to health savings accounts, which comes with a $49 million price tag, and a sweeping lawsuit reform measure. (This seems beneficial and a stimulate to all employees, not big business don't you think?)
(4) He also signed a bill that increases by $25 million the money available for economic development incentives. However, there is already more than $73 million in tax credits in the fund that have not been allocated, so the additional $25 million is not expected to be tapped over the next two years at least (so this additional 25million will have NO effect over the next couple of years)
(5) the Legislature's budget committee also passed a bill that reorganizes the state Commerce Department into a new corporation made up of private employees, not state union workers (indifferent on long term or immediate effect)
LOL Moore who only hires non-union workers. Anyone using a Hollywood Millionaire Kook who hires only non-union to speak about unions/big business needs a mental exam. LOL. PS the Democrats who are hiding are some of the same ones that failed to pass a contract in December. Seems they like to hide behind others.
Since when did Moore become the spokesman for the left? A film director is now a their spokesman who has obtained vast experience in the world of politics by making films and criticizing anyone who does not share his views of the world. This is the new left.
I'll take Moore any day over YOUR entertainer-spokesmen Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck. What "vast experience in the world of politics" qualifies either of them to "criticize anyone who does not share [their] views of the world"?
Don't make me laugh. I already laugh at Rush and Beck. Mirthless liberals can only take so much laughter in a day. Any more and we'll get wrinkles.
@Gary... Well, you certainly view him so... and thus, maybe for you, he became the spokesman of/for the left, recently? Hard to tell how many feel the same. I thought that he spoke from the center, as far as his interests, from conservative hard line, economically, and his concerns/worries came from abuses, on either side. With the betterment of folks, at the core.. I mean, he's not dodging the issue, at all, and certainly, pays for the ride, and makes bucks across the board, for lots of folks... before paying tax. Who doesn't repeat, doesn't, bully. ARGUE? Yes. But if he were a bully... he'd have tons of frivolous legal proceedings, to really utilize the biggest bang, for his buck. When comes to proper legal/business priviliges, powers... you know, as an executive. I don't begrudge that he succeeds, and he wasn't born into wealth. He didn't carbet bag. Like Gates, he earned his wealth, in the traditions of great conservatives... who still remain above the greed levels, of other, less worthy people, who can take, without virtue or moral, compass. So, did he bitch that his taxes might go to HC? No. Did he bitch that his taxes might go to GMC... yes. Now you tell me... what's wrong with his personal example? And by the way... You think you're describing the NEW LEFT...? Left is always left, and always been... left. But then, it never does ever get old, now, does it? You can call 'em, how you see them... there's a clear precedent for such argument. Take labor v. conservative... in England, a socialized country, with THE CROWN in play. Labor v conservative. End of Brain function. That argument represents ALL CONCERNS.... let me know how you like that! Sounds like less is more, for some.
Tainted poll slanted toward the liberals of course. Not what the real people think by any means.
Bob, where are you from? You from Wisconsin? You know everything, do you? You know how people think? Polls can always be disregarded if they don't skew your way, right?
Walker and his Republican clown patrol are liars and need to be removed from office. The latest lie is the blow-up about all the damage at the capital, which was almost entirely made up, from the amount of damage to the cost. You folks are losing in the polls and in popularity because of antics like this; made-up crap about scary things that don't exist and stomping on people's rights while whining about people's rights being stomped on. What do you expect polls are going to say? That people like being lied to and appreciate politicians that can't be bothered with reality? Wisconsin is, supposedly, short $130MM in budget...Walker gave away $130MM in taxes and then said it was the unions' fault and that this money would magically appear if collective bargaining went away...seriously? What planet do you people live on?
Some of Walker's supporters need to revisit that old tale, "The Boy Who Cried Wolf." Tell enough lies, and eventually NOTHING you say has any credibility. That's exactly where these clowns are heading.
bob5ford: Did you even read the poll? Did you see the amount of republican it included, and the amount of Independents it included? I guess if you don't agree with the results it is a tainted poll, but if you agree with the results it is not tainted. Did I get that right????
Guess what WE ARE REAL PEOPLE,people who care about more than ourself, we care about entitlements for our poor and old.We care about our enviroment more than profit.We have seen first hand the abuse of power of people to take advange of the week and poor by fooling people that this doesn't effect them .Real people like you need to take your blinders off get out your own personal world ,because we are real people fighting for the rights for all.
I agreee Gov. Walker should back down, conceed everything and let the unions decided who goes on unemployment when the well runs dry. After all there is only so many private sector workers to support the public union workers. I wish your fair state all the luck, you are going to need it either way this goes. You also might want to recommend to Micheal Moore and others to get their own house in order before wanting to help clean someone else's.
when all those workers lose their house in your neighborhood and the value of your house hits bottom dont blame anyone but yourself for voting repug
I'm really surprised that with all of the political fallout over the governor's decision, no one has mentioned a recall vote. If anyone knows, is there a process for recalling the governor in Wisconsin ?
An elected official in Wisconsin has to be in office for a year before he or she can be recalled.
There is recalls for 8 republican senators - supposed to be filled by March 8th.
There is also a recall for 8 democratic senators - part of those who went to Ill.
Anna, how are you going to stop what he wants to do? he's got the governorship and majorities in both houses and the time to do it. SO, Anna how do you stop him?
Each one of these represenitives on both sides of the isle are to speak for the people in their district. Thats what it is all about. One voice for many people. I'm a Republican from Nebraska with no affilliation in Wisconsin. But more than a Republican, I'm an American, and vote as such. I have been following this situation since it started and have concluded that the Republicans are not listening to the same people that voted them in to office at all, excluding that 2% that have them by their balls. The day will come when 98% of this country will wake upand call the Governments bluff. And that might be sooner than we think.
another day where gas price is not in top 10 headlines of msdnc.
if it was under W's watch, they would have been building the cross amost 2 weeks ago.
Again, you pick and choose what you tend to believe mitch j. Just keep spinning.
So, what is your point? Politicians should not do what needs to be done because it is unpopular? You do whats right and you let the voters sort it out later.
So does it matter that they are voted into office to do the people's bidding!! They are voted in by people who believe all the campaign BS!! Since when has a politician been voted in to do the right thing! He pulled the wool over many eyes!! He has his own agenda that makes him a dictator! He doesnt' care what the PEOPLE want!!
And what do you want? If I tell you that the way unions work (Stanford has quite the study on this) is that I pay my dues so they can pay off politicians (Many without my vote) so they can get what they want and throw a few crumb to members. Most union members in alot of states are going fair share as they see how corrupt their unions have becomed. Thats what you want?
So Jake, are you going to sit down and speak with every public worker in person? Collective bargaining is just that the members tell their representative through local meetings what is the major concerns of each body. While any negotiations don't suit every person individually, for a large workforce collective bargaining is possibly the most efficient way to accomplish this fete.
I realize that it is hard for the feeble minded to understand that you do not corrupt a whole body of employees only individuals are corrupted, and individuals in Unions are voted into office just like politicians. What you are obviously against is the democratic processes of our Country. Lybia would probably suit you very well.
just like Obama and Obamacare, who is the dictator now?
Do any of you wonder why the GOP (and NeoCon Tea-Birds) get compared to Nazi's? -- It's because they tend to pass legislation and economic policy in lockstep, and it's almost the exact same legislation that the Nazi Party passed. I might add in almost the same decietful way, in a format against the nations people in favor of Big Biz.
Local government - 26 April 1933
Trade Unions banned - 2 May 1933
Walker isn't doing anything different than what Obama has done since he's been in office, yet all you libs are angry at Walker. It's ok to not turn up for your job if you don't like what's going on, it's ok to investigate how to secede from your state if you don't like what's going on. All I see is libs running from the problems of the nation instead of confronting them head on. While I might not completely agree with what the repubs are doing, at least they're trying to do something. Libs refuse to make any major cuts to balance any budget, libs refuse to confront illegal immigration, libs refuse to tackle the deficit in any meaningful way, libs pretty much want to keep the country going as it has been. The only problem is the country is sliding downhill fast.
I hope you libs are all happy when the country goes bust in the social welfare state we've become. I hope you libs are happy when we're hit by another terrorist attack from our southern border. I hope you libs are happy once we've lost the freedom and independence that we've been able to enjoy.
I'm an independent, I don't care for a lot that the repubs do. But you libs are really taking the cake in acting like little kids.
"Wah! I don't like this, I'm going to take my ball and go home instead of playing by the rules!"
You all make me sick.
Obama is a paragon of virtue compared to Walker. The country is going bust because the GOP is giving money to the wealthy and expecting the middle class and the poor to pick up the tab.
(Walker isn't doing anything different than what Obama has done since he's been in office, yet all you libs are angry at Walker. It's ok to not turn up for your job if you don't like what's going on, it's ok to investigate how to secede from your state if you don't like what's going on. All I see is libs running from the problems of the nation instead of confronting them head on. While I might not completely agree with what the repubs are doing, at least they're trying to do something. Libs refuse to make any major cuts to balance any budget, libs refuse to confront illegal immigration, libs refuse to tackle the deficit in any meaningful way, libs pretty much want to keep the country going as it has been. The only problem is the country is sliding downhill fast.
I hope you libs are all happy when the country goes bust in the social welfare state we've become. I hope you libs are happy when we're hit by another terrorist attack from our southern border. I hope you libs are happy once we've lost the freedom and independence that we've been able to enjoy.)
Just how do you propose that taking working families rights away is doing anything but helping the lazy prey upon the working class. I realize that some people are against having a minimum wage in our country but this is why we have to band together because working AMERICANS are given NO consideration, only profit margins are cared about. We will not let ourselves be overlooked or under valued !!!!!!
DEAL WITH US.
have you seen the tax break Walker wants to give modular home giants?
The numbers are eerily close to the amount that he wants to steal from the future (the school systems)
But of coarse the co-owners and wives were contributors to Walker. Must do research as to who else he will give our school money to. He sure is not interested in cutting money for the deficit only so he can give it away to those that paid for his votes. If he did indeed actually get votes........
You can't be afraid of the vote. You HAVE to what is right and needed and that is to get spending under control at ALL costs. While it might be unpopular now the voters will see in the future how this helped to keep their state from going bankrupt. Do you REALLY need collective bargaining? I think NOT.
Pay attention to the news! The Unions long ago agreed to the monetary concessions needed for the Governor's budget. This is not about the budget, it's purely about busting the unions.
Who cares what YOU think? On second thought, though, you do think "not."
If public employees don't really need it, then why are republicans so afraid of it? And why do they want it so badly?
If it's just a fly on the wall, then brush it off. I think not.
Hey Ann Molly, you are exactly what is wrong with Unioners. You don't care about anyone but yourselves. Gimme, gimme, gimme. That's all you care about. Well, screw you. We Republicans don't want "collective bargaining" because there is no "bargaining" in collective bargaining. Just like there was never any "farming" in "collective farming". The "collective" ideology leads to NO WORK and all PAY. Republicans believe in "No Work, you starve". That's the difference between "capitalism", which is the foundation of America, and "communism", which is the foundation of UNIONS.
Walker is not just interested in busting the Unions, but in busting the Democratic Party. By preventing the unions from organizing and having any real say in negotionations (pay or otherwise) he is trying to take away a major contributor to the Democratic Party. If unions cannot do anything to help their members, their members will abandon the unions. (Just look at what happened in ID after they broke the unions.) If unions cannot raise money for political contributions and lobbying, then the Republicans can buy any election in the state and ram through their extreme agendas without a care for the voters concerns. Walker is not just trying to grab power away from the unions but from the people themselves. Also if he sales the state's power plants to the Koch brothers for a $1 apiece, they will set him up for life (and probably even keep Mother Jones' promise to take Walker to CA) when he retires from (or is forced out of) office.
So unions are not just special interest groups? If union members represented a greater number of workers they might be considered "representing the people", otherwise they are no different than the NRA or the Sierra Club.
I'm NOT a "unioner," in the sense that I don't belong to or work for a union. And same to you. Your rational, civil approach to debate does you credit. And I just told you exactly how much.
By the way, I pay 100 percent of my own health care and 100 percent of my own pension. How about you?
But one thing is clear; if anyone here doesn't care about others, it's YOU. Selfishness IS capitalism in its finest Ayn Rand manifestation. Unions have been in decline the past 30 years, while your view has been on the ascendency. In that same period, worker wages overall are flat or declining, benefits have declined, private sector health care has gone to Hades in a handbasket, jobs have flown overseas, and the housing market has collapsed, robbing many average Americans of the chance to participate in the American dream.
I didn't do all that. And neither did unions who have been mostly helpless to stop it. Your side did that. Thank Reagan. And be proud.
GIMME GIMME GIMME... And really, what is it you want, again? The roads, you don't get, the medicines that aren't there? The budget for schools... and it's the unions who are asking, for pay, at fault. Like nobody who ever had a budget knows what that involves. For starters, it's already a collective bargain, that is agreed on... BEFORE the budget. And so it's not the unions who are over-spending in that regard... It's after the bargaining spending, at the core. Not the unions. But, corrupt management, all the same. Something is wrong alright! Work for 60 years, to find yourself destitute, because you had to live hand to mouth... and the guy who collectively took the earnings that you made, for himself, and gave himself his bonus, while you and yours have nothing, as you had earnings pirated, away?... See, this falls in line with centuries old thinking... and even Dickens could be faulted, for siding with Tiny Tim, and the Cratchetts. But these blow-hards are EXACTLY the counterparts to their percieved enemy... and they, like Scrooge, may have to learn their lesson, alone. They have no clue what it means to literally work hard for days, weeks, months, years, to have their earnings, savings, pensions, EVERYTHING that they EARNED... stolen... They don't get UNIONS? I don't think they understand those big words they throw around. But, they can mimick GIMME GIMME GIMME.
@ yourtruth4you If we really need to get spending under control cut out the subsidies, roll back the tax cuts and start rewarding companies that keep jobs in America.
The republican party and their tea party compatriots are not very patriotic in my book.