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Subscribe to RSSIn New Hampshire on Saturday, Romney unveiled Romney 3.0 (a presidential candidate who focuses more on the economy than on social issues)… How that compares with Romney 1.0 (the socially moderate Massachusetts governor) and Romney 2.0 (the 2008 presidential candidate who ran to McCain’s and Rudy’s right on abortion and illegal immigration)… Mitt’s biggest challenge: authenticity… Mike Huckabee -- an unserious man for president?... Iowa Faith & Freedom Coalition cattle call tonight… The expected speaking order: Cain (8:05 pm ET), Pawlenty (8:17 pm), Roemer (8:29 pm), Santorum (8:41 pm), and Gingrich (TBD)… Bloomberg News fact-checks Boehner… Kaine’s decision could come this week… And Heather Wilson makes her SEN bid official.
From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, Domenico Montanaro, and Ali Weinberg
*** Romney 3.0 …: Mitt Romney’s speech in New Hampshire Saturday night was a preview of the primary -- and possibly general election -- campaign he wants to run in 2011 and 2012. Romney avoided talk of social issues and focused on economic ones (“I know how jobs are created and how jobs are lost”); he made New Hampshire a priority, mentioning the state by name 14 times (“We liked New Hampshire so much, we may just decide to play a double header”); he emphasized American exceptionalism (“I don’t apologize for America because I believe in America!”); and he differentiated RomneyCare from ObamaCare by using the federalism argument (“One thing I would never do is to usurp the constitutional power of states with a one-size-fits-all federal takeover”).
*** … vs. Romney 1.0 and 2.0: This, in short, is Romney 3.0. Romney 1.0 was the socially moderate businessman who won election as Massachusetts governor in 2002. Romney 2.0 was the socially conservative presidential candidate who ran to John McCain’s and Rudy Giuliani’s right on abortion, stem cells, and illegal immigration in 2007-2008. And Romney 3.0 appears to be the repeat presidential candidate who will focus more on the economy and his business record than on social issues. Yet as the New York Times’ Zeleny writes, Romney’s transformation also applies to his appearance. “Mr. Romney is trying to present a more relaxed image to combat impressions that he is unapproachable and stiff. He has not been seen in a necktie for months... He turned up in the pit area of the Daytona 500 last month, mingling with race car drivers while wearing a Bass Pro Shops shirt. And last week, Mr. Romney, who put his wealth four years ago around $200 million, walked into Tommy’s Barber Shop in an Atlanta strip mall for a haircut.”
*** Mitt’s challenge: authenticity: Of course, Romney 3.0 is how we all thought he was going to run at the beginning of the 2008 cycle. And it’s closer to his true political identity (though we still don't know about some of his social policy stances which have, um, evolved over the last two decades). But this could be a constant theme of the 2012 campaign: Where was this Romney in 2008? Could this Romney have won in ’08? Etc. As we -- and others -- have pointed out, the challenge for Romney will be if he can sell yet another political re-invention. “During a weekend speech to New Hampshire Republicans, Mitt Romney delivered what will likely be his most durable rejoinder to critics of the universal health care program he signed into law while governor of Massachusetts,” the Boston Globe’s Glen Johnson reported. “Still remaining, though, is a lingering, fundamental question about his authenticity that has only been perpetuated by recent appearances.”
*** An Unserious Man: As NBC’s Lauren Selsky observed on Friday, Mike Huckabee last week had, shall we say, an interesting week. First, he stated -- incorrectly -- that Obama lived in Kenya. Then, after he said he misspoke and meant Indonesia, Huckabee stated that the president had a different worldview than most Americans. “Most of us grew up going to Boy Scout meetings and, you know, our communities were filled with Rotary Clubs, not madrassas." Lastly, he appeared to take on actress Natalie Portman for having a child out of wedlock. Politics Daily’s Jill Lawrence: “The further Huckabee goes down the road he's on, the less seriously he's taken as a presidential aspirant.” But this all could be good for ratings. Bottom line: Huckabee had a bad week, and one of his challenges for 2012 (should he run) is to go from the intriguing homespun conservative candidate who wasn't taken seriously in 2008 (until late) to a potential commander in chief in 2012. On THAT front, he's made little to no progress.
*** Tonight’s cattle call in Iowa: In Iowa tonight, five Republicans who either have formed presidential exploratory committees or will probably do so soon -- Herman Cain, Buddy Roemer, Rick Santorum, Tim Pawlenty, and Newt Gingrich -- will speak at a forum organized by the Iowa Faith & Freedom Coalition. Per NBC’s Rob Rivas, Cain is expected to speak at 8:05 pm ET, Pawlenty goes at 8:17 pm, Roemer’s speech is at 8:29 pm, Santorum’s is 8:41 pm, and Gingrich’s is TBD.
*** Success in failure? This week, the Senate plans to vote on both the budget-cutting plans by House Republicans and Senate Democrats. The reason: To show that both plans don’t have enough support in the Senate, and to convince Republicans and Democrats to go back to the drawing board. Bloomberg News: “Both measures are likely to fail, signaling to lawmakers -- including House Republican freshmen who are demanding big cuts - - that neither plan can get through the Senate.” There is some eye-brow raising at Senate Dem Whip Dick Durbin's "line in the sand" style talking points on Sunday and whether it's simply part of the theatrics of negotiating or if there is a growing number of Senate Democrats feeling emboldened by polling show these cuts aren't very popular.
*** Bloomberg fact-checks Boehner: Don’t miss this Bloomberg News fact-check of Boehner (and other Republicans) saying that the federal government is broke. “‘The U.S. government is not broke,’ said Marc Chandler, global head of currency strategy for Brown Brothers Harriman & Co. in New York. ‘There’s no evidence that the market is treating the U.S. government like it’s broke.’” More: “The U.S. today is able to borrow at historically low interest rates, paying 0.68 percent on a two-year note that it had to offer at 5.1 percent before the financial crisis began in 2007. Financial products that pay off if Uncle Sam defaults aren’t attracting unusual investor demand. And tax revenue as a percentage of the economy is at a 60-year low, meaning if the government needs to raise cash and can summon the political will, it could do so.”
*** Heads up: Kaine’s decision could come this week: According to a plugged-in Democratic source, current DNC Chairman (and former Virginia Gov.) Tim Kaine will likely announce his decision this week (or next) whether he’ll run for Jim Webb’s Senate seat. Will he get in? The source puts the odds at 50%-50%. Remember this: Kaine has missed a few self-imposed deadlines to announce he would NOT run, which is why there is heavy speculation and assumption that party stalwarts of stalked him into running. If he were NOT running, he'd already have said so.
*** Heather Wilson’s War: And speaking of getting in a Senate race, former U.S. Rep. Heather Wilson (R) will announce at 4:30 pm ET in Albuquerque, NM that she’s running for the open Senate seat being vacated by Sen. Jeff Bingaman (D). The moderate Wilson has always been a strong general-election statewide GOP candidate, but the question has always been: Can she get through a primary? (See: 2008). Indeed, conservative Erick Erickson tweeted this on Friday, "Keeping Heather Wilson out of the Senate will be the next great noble cause for conservatives." Meanwhile, the DSCC has a Web ad hitting Wilson, which plays up her ties to D.C. and prominent Republicans.
Countdown to continuing resolution’s expiration: 11 days
Countdown to Iowa GOP straw poll: 158 days
Countdown to Election Day 2011: 246 days
Countdown to the Iowa caucuses: 336 days
* Note: When the IA caucuses take place depends on whether other states move up
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Do the GOP/TP people really want to create jobs in this country and help an economy that is already showing positive signs of improvements according to most economists, both republican and democrats? The major issues the American people want the government to address remains to be Jobs and the Economy. Nothing else even comes close so why are the GOP/TP Party so head strong against these issues even though they campaigned on them all of last year?
This week we have seen more proof that the Job picture and the economy are improving. A 192,000 new private sector jobs have been created, the unemployment rate has dropped to 8.9% and the claims for unemployment are at the lowest level in 2 years. As a starting point these results are mostly due to the fact that President Obama’s Stimulus did work as well as the TARP Program signed by the former President Bush. Most leading economist agree that if these were not enacted the economic environment would have been a lot worse than it is.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2010-08-30-stimulus30_CV_N.htm
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/11/wait-did-the-stimulus-work/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/31/AR2010073100092.html
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=2910
Just this December in the famous “Lame Duck” Congressional Session, President Obama signed the Tax Cut Compromise that many economists refer to as a second “Stimulus Bill” that while it did provide 150 Billion in Tax Cuts for the richest 2% (Our President opposed this provision but ended up accepting it to get everything else approved) it also included 280 Billion in tax cuts for the Middle Class, 56 Billion in UI, reduced the payroll tax by 2%, 21 Billion in refundable tax credits and several programs to provide additional tax cuts for the Small Business Sector and make more capital available to them etc. There are a dozens upon dozens of reports on this I have just include only 2 below.
http://ncronline.org/blogs/distinctly-catholic/tax-cut-compromise-or-2010-stimulus
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3349
Will this improvement continue I do not know but many leading economist both republican and democrats feel that it will under the current circumstances. But there are some roadblocks ahead. For example, gasoline prices continues to rise, we are now at $3.49 per gallon on average (due mostly to speculation at this point) and $4.00 or more per gallon is just around the corner. Food prices, which comprise about 15% of the family budget, are starting to increase as the ever increasing cost are now starting to be passed on to the consumer. We have more unrest overseas and I suspect more countries will follow the example of Egypt (Libya, Yemen, etc), and we have the most toxic political environment in this country one in which the GOP/TP wants to drive this Nation back into the ditch, even farther than last time.
Currently the Senate is debating the proposed Spending Cut Bill offered by the GOP/TP that will cut about 61 Billion Dollars over the balance of the year. What agencies do they plan to cut? See report: http://appropriations.house.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=259
These spending cuts will cost Americans hundreds of thousands of Jobs and reduce government revenues both at the Federal and State levels to new records. Unemployment will increase, more claims filed for UI, more people on Food Stamps, Welfare, Medicaid. This “Bill” will hurt an economy that by all measures is expanding (improving) to a point that it may stall or even lead us into another recession which by all estimates will be worse than the one we just went through. There will be collateral damage to small business and families that are marginal leading to even more jobs lost, increased unemployment etc. They cycle will continue and probably escalate just like the snake eating its own tail. And this does not take into consideration the lost social services as noted above where programs for Education, Medical Research, Law Enforcement, Food and Product Safety, Community Health Centers, etc will have their budgets gutted by 15% on average with some paying much more than the average.
So what we’re talking about here is not whether the GOP/TP cuts will cause job loss and damage to a fragile economy, but to what degree the impacts will be. We saw this week reports from Bernanke, Goldman Sachs, Moody’s, and EPI all united in saying that losses will occur and that the economy will be damaged, they just differ on the final numbers.
As reported by Mother Jones’ Kevin Drum, “Maybe it’s a million jobs; maybe it’s half a million jobs. Maybe it will cost a point of GDP; maybe it will cost half a point of GDP. But considering that the economy is still sluggish and unemployment is extremely high, why are we considering budget cuts that will have any negative effect on jobs and growth?” If should be pointed out that most leading economists do not support the GOP/TP Spending Cuts as laid out currently as they will cost jobs, lower revenues and stall the economy (see below). This is exactly what happened under the last administration so why would we take the same path again?? In fact why is the GOP/TP pushing it?? The Center for American Progress Action Fund and the Economic Policy Institute released a letter this week -- signed by 320 economists -- which stated that "responsible governance demands that we neither damage the recovery today nor forsake America’s economic future by cutting critical investments."
The House GOP actually cheering when yet another economist says that their cuts will increase unemployment continues the very cavalier and repugnant attitude Republicans have had regarding this point. Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) replied “so be it” to those pointing out that his party will increase unemployment, while Gov. Mitch Daniels (R-IN) said that GOP lawmakers at all levels of government should carry out spending cuts “even if they end up seriously costing a lot of jobs right now.”
People, the evidence is clear and growing each day. The GOP/TP does not want to create JOBS in this country. They do not want an economy that is starting to turn the corner to continue moving forward. They have done absolutely nothing to help this country through the current economic downturn but have the unmitigated gall to try and take credit. They want just the opposite. It is abundantly clear that this is and has been part of their agenda all along. They have yet to show any new ideas on how to create jobs in this country. They still do not have a plan to help and improving economy continue to improve. But, they do have a plan to ‘Kill” Jobs and “Kill” the economy and then blame it on President Obama.
If they are allowed to proceed with these DRACONIAN and self-serving cuts it will be like the fable of the snake eating its own tail and ultimately devouring itself.
Sensible vs. Unbelievable:
How to win an election?
The sensible solution is to empower voters, get out your message and get out the vote.
The unbelievable solution is to disenfranchise voters. Yes, in 22 states the GOP/TP is working to pass legislation to make it much harder for college students, seniors, disabled, homeless, and Hispanics to vote. GOP/TP states like New Hampshire, Minnesota, NC, SC, Wisconsin, Texas, Colorado, Tennessee, and Iowa (just to name a few) are making it more difficult for certain segments of the population to vote. For example, NH House speaker Wm. O'Brien (R) said our college kids are voting too liberal. The mantra seems to be if you won't vote for the GOP/TP, you can't vote.
Militia in Arizona:
The sensible position comes from our Constitution. Essentially it says the Commander-in-Chief is in charge of all armed forces, including state militias.
The unbelievable notion is that in Arizona the GOP/TP would let Governor Brewer create an armed militia for whatever reason she considers necessary. Now how unbelievable is that. Wisconsin Governor Walker would just love to have his own militia…along with Texas, New Hampshire--in fact all the states mentioned above.
The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth:
David Koch claims he didn't "directly" support Wisconsin Governor Walker. Perhaps his weasel word is "directly". But in truth his organization did fund the Wisconsin governor, including busing tea partiers to the Madison rallies.
Two Republicans did say something sensible this week. George Will called Mike Huckabee and Newt Gingrich "delusional". That seems to be a reasonable assessment.
Once Republican Arlen Specter commented that the GOP/TP has engaged in sophisticated cannibalism, and then he reworded the comment to "raw cannibalism". Maybe his comments were "sour grapes", but then again, maybe he was telling the truth. I can think of examples where the GOP/TP have eaten their own.
Good morning every one....
I just have a couple of questions for you guys: Which Romney will be running for the presidency? The pro or anti abortion Romney? they one that was for health care mandate or the one that was against it?
Look up the definition of a flip-flopper (slipping n sliding) in the dictionary and you'd see Romney's picture in there...when it comes to flip-flops, I'd say this guy puts John Kerry to shame.
And great post Navy.... it seems that we are supposed to forget that the GOP has not done a thing to try to revitalize this economy....besides saying " the business love us, so they create jobs" (hey GOP-ers, I'm only paraphrasing)
OK, one last thing.... the news media keeps reporting that the raucous in WI is about budgetary crisis.... OK, maybe at one time it was... it no longer is when the only thing we are now debating is "collective bargaining rights" .... the money part has already been resolved, no? any GOP-er (or Tea Partier) out there care to disprove this? So the racous is really about whether unions should exist or not.
TA:
Good question, I do not think he will run that he is only testing the waters right now. Time will tell and I do not think he could beat President Obama.
US Navy,
How is this for a major issue? How does this relate to jobs, the economy?
Evil Oil Companies Want $8 Gallon Gas - Destruction of America's Middle Class
(You guys love that fantasy, but the reality is....)
Whoops! Actually that would probably be the Obama Administration, not evil oil companies.
Gas prices in Europe then averaged about $8 a gallon. (For Feisty and Bev - Chu is Obama's Secretary of Energy and $8 a gallon gas really sucks.)
Mr. Energy Secretary has also said:
And anyone with any common sense, would realize - the orchestrated and carefully planned disruption of domestic supply by Obama and Chu would do the same thing.
We sit on all kinds of energy and are literally surrounded by energy resources, yet only 85% is available. Obama is killing production of the other 15% off.
Obama put together a commission to call for a moratorium in the Gulf. They didn't so he had Salazar change their report and ordered the moratorium. A federal judge ruled against the moratorium, Obama, in effect ignored it. The judge issued a contempt order, Obama has ignored it. Over a hundred permits await approval, last week the first was issued (seems Congress wants a meeting). The shallow water drilling that wasn't to be effected, yea Obama lied about that too. Same re-writing of the rules, requirements, holding permits song and dance to restrict drilling, though not quite to the extreme as deep water drilling.
Obama has made the eastern Gulf, Atlantic and Pacific coasts off-limits for 7 years. The Interior department has canceled 4 pending lease sales in Alaska, has designated other areas of Alaska as critical polar bear while the bear population is exploding there.
The administration canceled 77 oil and gas leases in Utah. Recently another 6 million energy rich acres were labeled with "wilderness characteristics" - off limits. On and On and On. And the same thing with the coal industry.
To make matters worse, the administration pushes for increased subsidies for biofuels which makes no sense. Crops are being converted for ethanol and prices for food are skyrocketing. How does that help the poor and middle class?
All the senseless lost jobs, senseless lost revenue, senseless increased reliance on foreign countries, senseless increased debt..........and senseless additional burden to the poor and middle class.
Liberals love the poor .......... they systematically create more of them everyday from the middle class.
(BTW - Libya / Schembya - who would have ever guessed. No excuse for what Obama has done.)
Good morning US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired
Do the GOP/TP people really want to create jobs in this country and help an economy that is already showing positive signs of improvements according to most economists, both republican and democrats?
Do the republicans even have a plan besides taking a meat axe to the budget?
I'd say "NO" because numbers, facts, and the Republicans past FAILED history means nothing to them.
The Republicans and right wing trolls would do good to listen to what that Cheshire cat in Alice in Wonderland said...
Then it doesn't matter which way you go,' said the Cat.
`--so long as I get SOMEWHERE,'
But Republicans, who are serious about pushing more kids out of school just to stifle the innovation which small businesses and large alike need to create more jobs, and stop the investment in infrastructure which kills good-paying jobs right here in the United States.
They are going no where slowly.
Thanks Navy for posing a serious intelligent question.
Reminds of a headline, probably from the New York Times, "Giant Meteor to hit Earth! College students, seniors, disabled, homeless, and Hispanics affected most!"
And if the liberals are so very concerned about disenfranchisement, they might want to have a chat with the state Senators from Indiana and Wisconsin who are in hiding like cowards in their spider holes over in that sanctuary state of Illinois and refusing to participate in Democracy in their states.
Blob---you are not very good cover for the right.
Wasn't Joe Biden the big hero last week, the guy that was going to save the day? Where is he in all this? Finland you say.
And no support? Listen, the cuts the Republicans in the House have passed are so mild, so benign, that even a Caveman could figure them out. If the Democrats can't get onboard with $60 billion in cuts, what are they going to do when the real cuts begin? Recall that Obama, the gutless non-leader he is, has submitted a 2012 budget with $1.65 TRILLION dollars in deficit spending. That's how much Congress needs to cut from that budget just to get the budget in balance! And seeing the Democrats are so tied into their specials interests there will be no help from them in those cuts, either in the 2011 or 2012 budgets. The Republicans need to stand firm and represent the taxpayer and make those cuts. Leave the Democrats to represent the special interest groups like the unions. They'll pay next year at the ballot box.
And any in-action by the Senate is Harry Reid's fault. If there is a shut down, that's on him.
Outstanding posts to start the day, USN and Ron. Looking at it in a big picture fashion what I see is a Conservative Movement that no longer believes it needs to disguise its slavish devotion to the wealthy elites. "Sensible" is in the definition, I'd say. When your only real constituency is the fabulously rich all their actions make sense.
bob-1805084
Evil Oil Companies Want $8 Gallon Gas - Destruction of America's Middle Class
Whoops! Actually that would probably be the Obama Administration, not evil oil companies.
Which booby trap are you? Never mind, anyhow to appreciate why this will be so, a little history lesson is in order.
Consider the recent rise in the price of oil just a faint and early tremor heralding the oilquake to come. Oil won't disappear from international markets, but in the coming decades it will never reach the volumes needed to satisfy projected world demand, which means that, sooner rather than later, scarcity will become the dominant market condition. Only the rapid development of alternative sources of energy and a dramatic reduction in oil consumption might spare the world the most severe economic repercussions.
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/03/libya-effect-oil-prices?page=2
A Great Deal Of (Tax-Deductible) Satisfaction
Only a plutocrat could feel good about usurping American democracy, opposing labor unions, health care reform, stimulus spending, and cap-and-trade legislation by not paying their fair share of taxes.
Of course none of the attributes really prove just how much these plutocrats are worth. Unquestionably, one can see (even a blind person)these types of people are morally bankrupt.
No offense to anyone but, if the Gestapo only numbered 32,000 for the entire population of Germany, just a few in this plutocracy are denying 98% of this United States’ population. Similarly, the US Supreme Court’s decision of Citizens United seems overt; but like the Gestapo Law the activities of the Gestapo were free from any review by courts of law.
Citizens United and the Westboro Baptist Church’s ruling by the US Supreme Court is covertly allowing American values to erode.
Regretfully, American is beginning to languish by the manacles of a plutocracy.
“When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir.”
Rev Dr Martin Luther King Jr.quote
If we are to “Let Freedom Ring” across this nation, we must not be reticence that the plutocrats of America are allowing the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence to default on this promissory note of material prosperity, guaranting the unalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
We are not the enemies of the state rather we did the work that made/ makes America productive; so lets not allow these Robber Barons try to rake US over the coals.
Stop listening to the pseudo professor Glenn Beck and FOX LIES. Otherwise these right wing tools will drag the middle and poor working classes into an unrestrained mountain of debt; in addition to silencing our voices and collective bargaining power.
Wisconsin is the epicenter for basic human rights and our reluctance to not allow republican governors sponsored by the Koch brothers to attack unions.
The Kochs’ involvement is no longer secretive. The Kochtopus is planning to surface and spread it’s toxic tentacles.
BTW: does anyone agree with me? Is it possible since Jared Lougher, the suspect of Arizona, totally look like Glenn Beck? They could be related; perhaps a brother, cousin, or possibly an illegitimate son? After all, they both are consumed with anger and confusion.
Below their images are juxtaposed. It’s uncanny; really.
http://totallylookslike.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/80f28a99-f691-45af-b9a8-495f02871179.jpg
Are any of these GOP/TOP clowns electable? Each has their own special interest, which splinters them even further. How can the GOP bring unity to the USA when they can't even agree internally on what their facade is? At least with Democrats, you know what you're gonna get up front. You're gonna get taxed, you're gonna have more govt, but at the end of the day, they've helped a few poor and middle class people, not hampered them by outsourcing their jobs or giving them to illegals.
Oil just hit $106 a barrel. Obama is "pondering" tapping the strategic oil reserves.
Libyan rebels are begging for help. Obama is "mulling" his options.
He dispatched Biden to deal with the budget impasse.
Meanwhile, a bunch of economists are advising him not to deal with the spike in food prices by cutting exports. I think they have nothing to worry about- the man is incapable of making a decision. Of course, when he does, finally, get dragged into taking some kind of stand, it is, invariably, the WRONG position, so, maybe, they should worry.
Obama was warned last year that weather and war were going to lead to food shortages- he was likewise told that ethanol was not cost efficient, did not lead to a reduction in carbon output- and, by the way, it is somewhat immoral to grow food to burn when so many in the world are starving.
It was a no brainer to cut the ethanol output in favor of food output. President Blue Screen could not make the decision.
As the year goes on, we will see more and more his affinity to remove himself from every discussion- he wants to be able to campaign as Zelig again. He thinks that he can be immunized from the results of any decision that way.
He will not, however, stop the parties, or the fundraisers. He will prove, every day, that he does not really want to be president.
He just wants to play one on T.V.
It is FASCINATING to watch Mitty tap dance around the issues. Let's see, he was a hybrid lib when he wanted MA voters to support him, he became more righteous than the right wing when he wanted Christian Conservatives to support him, and about that Romneycare.....well.....er.... it is okay because, ummmmm, let's see, THAT'S RIGHT! We did it in the state. Do you suppose he has to carry a primer book with him so he knows what he is supporting on what day? How will Mormonism fly with the right wing zealots? Can't wait to find out.
But, but, but, how can this be? We have Green cars now! Sold nearly a thousand of them in February alone! Powered by electricity. Electricity generated from, coal burning power plants . . . . .
But those nuclear power plants, the ones Obama talked about in his last two SOTU speeches (So you know it's important to him!), those should all be coming on line now any day now, correct? Oh, there's just a bit more paperwork to get through before we have them built. Looking forward to it.
NJ:
After your slap down from the moderators you were quiet for a few days. But over the weekend you sorta acted-out a bit. Taking mild criticisms seem hard for you.
BTW, what is the weather like in Lincroft, NJ? It's kinda cloudy here in Indiana.
BOB-084. Where do you pull your information, ideas and opinions out of? Your rants sound like something right out of Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh. Two of the biggest idiots and liars on our planet. Get a life Bob and new sources of information.
vote
Slap down? Hardly.
The story was not on First Read, has not been on First Read, and, in all probability, will not be on First Read.
Nonetheless, Obama's numbers are down, and will, in all likelihood, continue trending down, as he keeps himself AWOL from his responsibilities in favor of retreating to his Zelig candidacy.
I do not think it can work again.
As to the weather in Lincroft, I really do not know.
I am in Florida right now- which is why I was off line for a day.
Touche' Ron! LMAO!
She was certainly hitting the 'jealous' juice hard over the weekend!
Her disdain for our moderators is despicable!
Bitter party of one - you're table is ready!
PS: Kinda cloudy back here in Chi-town as well! Weekend was pure sunshine though! ;o)
Really? At your imaginary summer home right?
Oh Ron, what a hoot! Watch out! NJ will put you on IGNORE like she does with all of us who challenge her.
NJ:
I Googled, Bitterest person on planet Earth, and it came up, Donna, Lincroft, NJ. Like the old song title, "It had to be you".
Bev,
Mother Jones? Pathetic and clueless.
We have plenty of energy for decades and decades and decades and decades. Clueless.
Why is Obama willfully destroying the energy industry? It is crushing the middle class and poor. Clueless.
Obama is the great usurper. The American people do not want cap and trade. Clueless.
Westboro ruling? Didn't every liberal justice vote for it? Clueless.
Public unions collective bargaining? FDR and JFK were against it. Even Obama isn't calling for federal employees to have it. Clueless.
Tom,
Can't refute even one thing?
Ah, the myth of green energy
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-build6-20110306,0,2339677,full.story
Ten million taxpayer dollars- for nothing but a pipe dream.
The environmentalist movement is made up of con men, quacks, and morons. Nice of the L.A.Times to provide the proof.
(“One thing I would never do is to usurp the constitutional power of states with a one-size-fits-all federal takeover”).
While I'm not a big fan of Romney, I do have to agree with him that health insurance should be a 'States Rights' issue, and any state has a right to try programs that may benefit their particular circumstances, and can be easily changed if they don't work. Not so with the current federal program.
One other point on HCR. People seem to think that 30 million (or whatever figure they choose to use) people are without health CARE, but what they really mean is that they are without health INSURANCE. That is not the same, because everyone has health CARE available to them - either through health insurance, out of pocket or, as in the case of illegal immigrants, they just go the the hospital emergency rooms (where they can't be refused service - just go to any California hospital emergency room and take a look) and these people just ignore the bill. HCR was all about federal CONTROL of health insurance and changing who PAYS for it and, by the way, gives the government an excuse to collect a few hundred $Billion in new fees and taxes.
One other point about Romney - he does have the advantage of actually knowing how to create jobs and running a business, unlike our 'Community Organizer' current leader, who thought that making health insurance costs and borrowing costs more expensive was a higher priority than creating jobs and encouraging business expansion.
Ron; you are on a run today!
no joe,
Can you believe (I know you can), but the Idiot is actually talking going into the reserves - for a situation he created!
Makes sense in that it is insane. He is destroying the oil industry, might as well destroy the oil piggy bank too.
Good Morning Ron Indiana
Sensible vs. Unbelievable:
Somehow you and I have the same thoughts about the insensible & unbelievable
How to win an election?
The sensible solution is to empower voters, get out your message and get out the vote. Today, the assault on basic rights is expanding at a distributable rate. However , we needn't be alarmed, I believe.
Wisconsin has been is the epicenter and catalyst for basic human rights. The two men behind the curtain have exposed for who they are and what they do to not allow American voices to be heard.
The unbelievable solution is to disenfranchise voters. Yes, in 22 states the GOP/TP is working to pass legislation to make it much harder for college students, seniors, disabled, homeless, and Hispanics to vote. GOP/TP states like New Hampshire, Minnesota, NC, SC, Wisconsin, Texas,
I'm not surprised since Tom Tancredo told an audience that the country had elected “a committed socialist ideologue in the White House” because “we do not have a civics, literary test before people can vote in this country“
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/05/tancredo-obama-literacy/
Militia in Arizona:
The unbelievable notion is that in Arizona the GOP/TP would let Governor Brewer create an armed militia for whatever reason she considers necessary. Now how unbelievable is that. Wisconsin Governor Walker would just love to have his own militia…along with Texas, New Hampshire--in fact all the states mentioned above.
The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth:
Tea baggers are importing violence. Who from the right will believe it? It reminds me of the fake video of FOX LIES where they imported palm trees to Wisconsin
While covering Wisconsin Fox News runs video with palm trees in background
Continue reading on Examiner.com: While covering Wisconsin Fox News runs video with palm trees in background - National Political Buzz | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-national/while-covering-wisconsin-fox-news-runs-video-with-palm-trees-background#ixzz1FveKhZ3s
Still rught trolls won't admit they are being punked!!!
David Koch claims he didn't "directly" support Wisconsin Governor Walker. Perhaps his weasel word is "directly". But in truth his organization did fund the Wisconsin governor, including busing tea partiers to the Madison rallies.
The anti-government Koch brothers plan to spend millions more to fight back against hard working people.
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/486458/in_1st_statement_since_%22prank%22_call,_defiant_koch_bros_vow_to_'continue_the_fight'_in_wisconsin/
I found his post humorous as well, especially because he did not even make a challenge on any of your points.
But Bob, at least you can rest assured knowing that you are correct in what you said about the moratorium. To expand on it even more, once the "moratorium" was conveniently lifted before the midterm elections, it really did not mean anything to the offshore oil industry as there were no new permits being issued until last week. The moratorium pretty much halted all drilling both deep water and on the continental shelf.
Reposting for Feisty:
Touche' Ron! LMAO!
She was certainly hitting the 'jealous' juice hard over the weekend!
Her disdain for our moderators is despicable!
Bitter party of one - you're table is ready!
PS: Kinda cloudy back here in Chi-town as well! Weekend was pure sunshine though! ;o)
Really? At your imaginary summer home right?
You keep saying that. Hasn't been true yet. Still isn't;
Feb 27, 48%
Feb 20, 48%
Feb 13, 48%
Feb 6, 48%
Jan 2, 48%
Dec 5, 46%
Nov 7, 45%
Oct 3, 46%
And STILL better numbers than Clinton or Reagan at this point in their terms. http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Approval-Center.aspx
Keep lying though, it's amusing and helps make our point about Conservative "truthiness."
Ex-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi predicted that 4 million jobs would be created with ObamaCare, 400,000 of them "almost immediately". You'd think with such lofty positions staked out by Pelosi and the Democrats that the media would follow up on these claims to see if they are true or not (and they are not). Alas, just like with the $787 billion in "Stimulus" money in 2008, which was also claimed to be able to produce "4 million jobs", the media just seems to ignore what ever the Democratic leaders claim, and fail to deliver.
JoAnnaSmith1
New Hampshire House Republicans are pushing for new laws that would prohibit many college students from voting in the state - and effectively keep some from voting at all... The measures in New Hampshire are among dozens of voting-related bills being pushed by newly empowered Republican state lawmakers across the country
Reminds of a headline, probably from the New York Tim es, "Giant Meteor to hit Earth! College students, seniors, disabled, homeless, and Hispanics affected most!"
Well Joanna you have shown your TRUE colors, you are in favor of the latest republican trick.
You do understand that thrugood Marshall fought for years to eliminate poll tax, literacy test, and in texas back in the day, black could not vote in primaries. you are applauding this same tactic by the republicans, so far since the November Primaries, the republicans have goan after Planned parent hood, Public Tv, Womens reproductive rights, Public unions and not they are trying to elimate certain voting blocks that do not vote for them. they are doing what happened after the civil war, and that is silence voters. i hope your happy, in 5 years your BOYS will get there country back that segregates Minoritys, No workers rights, women will have to again go to a butcher to end a pregnancy (rape or incest) Big Business will go what they did back in the 40s and that is leave toxic waste dumps after they are finished with land they onced owned. in 2016 we will be back in 1936.
So Joanna, i will call you Jim, Joanna Smith1 Crow. because your comment i pasted is in the same voice we faught for years go get rid of.
No Jo i watched thurgood a second time and i found out that your BOY Clarence thomas would have NEVER got in to Yale if not for Thurgood Marshall. he in the 1930 tried to get in the univ of maryland, but they did not admitt blacks. so he took on the colleges and won, so No Jo as you continue to show Love for that nasty SOB remember if Not for Thrugood Marshall Clarence thomas would have never got in Yale with or with out affirmative action help he got.
JIM Joanna, Smith1 CROW!!!!!!!! or we from now on will just call you Jimmy crow.
BOob- oops, I meant bob
What a doofus you are. I hope you haven't reproduced.
We do not have decades and decades and decades of oil- listening to some snake oil republican again?
The $8 a gallon for gas would not be going into the pockets of fat ass oil producers. It would be invested in
RENEWABLE energy- you know, the kind that will be around for decades and decades and decades.
MBeaty,
What point did he make except me listening to Beck or whatever. Why respond to that tired, moronic drivel?
BTW - Most of it was from an IBD article about $8 gas. If you found that humorous check IBD - they seem to think that energy is the life blood of an economy, kinda important. They have a bunch of hilarious articles on industry industry - green jobs that cost 3.7 other jobs in the UK, etc.
RCP, NRO are a real hoot too.
Maybe you can help some the other ignorant...... there's one now - JimC. Have fun.
Ironic that there are people who believes Romney has some expertise in creating jobs. His specialty was as a corporate raider, finding companies that could be acquired below value and dismantled for profit.
Just because you're in the "private sector" doesn't mean you've ever created a job.
JoAnnaSmith1
What do you have to say about the $485 million dollars for the alternative F-35 engine, the one the Airforce emphatically doesn't want, doesn't need, says isn't necessary, that Cantor and Boehner voted against cutting because it is built in their districts? Do you think its hypocritical of Republicans to protray themselves as deficit hawks, while protecting pork spending when it involves their own dsitricts?
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/local-opinions/2010/06/cantor_fights_for_jet_engine_t.html
Bob:
Sorry, I was aiming the post at Tom, not you.
You were correct in what you were saying about the moratorium.
Sorry about the confusion.
beverly - so more revisionist history from you on education. rather sad really.
Care to enlighten us on the last year Americas k-12 education had the number 1 world ranking.
Care to enlighten us on when school boards started being afraid to discipline unruly and disruptive students?
Care to enllighten us on "no child left behind" as being a democrat initiative?
Care to enlighten us on how last falls sunday issue of the Des Moines register was unable to prove that giving higher salaries to teachers with masters degrees led to improved student rankings that justified the expenditures?
Care to enlighten us on how obamas $4.1 billion dollar educational stimulas for "turnaround" was so instrumental in Miami central high schools increased numbers in graduations and increases in writing and math scores over a five year period where at best, said funding wasn't even available during most of that five year period
Care to enlighten us on how continued increases in school spending has kept American k-12 students maintaining a #1 ranking in the world?
Care to enlighten us on obamas last state of the union message on how schools must show a plan first, before getting funding. Isn't this just more "business as usual" by politicians to wantonly spend money?
With regards to a "meat ax approach" approach to the republicans $61 billion proposed FY 2011 budget cuts...
Care to enlighten us on why Bernanke stated under interrogation before congress last week that he didn't consider such a small amount of cuts in a multi trillion $ economy would be bad for recovery..
Care to enlighten us on how even if 700000 government jobs would be temporarily lost due to such cuts the economy would be around $9 billion ahead using mark zandis numbers and supported by the likes of US navy.
You do realize that business requires an increasingly educated work force so how can you and other FR libs justify saying that the republicans are in bed with business and yet be against education and infrastructure. Could it be that conservatives want a more intelligent approach to spending based on results than just firing up the printing presses or taxing businesses and the top 2 % more.
I have no doubt that personal income taxes will have to increase to pay down our debt, just as spending cuts have to be made as well. Our nation can no longer afford to "kick the can down the road". We have all become to complacent with regards to americas future. If you FR libs want to dwell in the past, go for it. I am moving forward.
Interesting JohnB (post 1.36), by what measure of expertise would you create private sector jobs?
New day said - Oh Ron, what a hoot! Watch out! NJ will put you on IGNORE like she does with all of us who challenge her.
Hmmm. I wonder why was this comment was collapsed?
Well, seems it's time to "truth squad" a few posts here.
First:
bob-1805084
Bob that is so much total BS, I'm sure your eyes are brown and you moo when you open your mouth. Geez, the President caused oil prices to rise? How about speculators in the commodity market? Did the President send them all a note urging them to buy, buy, buy? And now you say he's an idiot for considering a release from the strategic opil reserve to help ease fuel price pressure? What door were you hiding behind when they were handing out brains? The U.S. has several times tapped the reserve to help restrain fuel prices, the last time by G.W. Bush.
Face it, buster, you just like the taste of scorn on your tongue. Moo, moo.
JAS1 - perhaps you didn't notice the report Friday about new job growth - and one of the principal areas of new jobs was in health care. Maybe you didn't notice that as many as 3.3 million jobs created or saved were attributed to the stimulus program, and that more are being made now, too. So, you, too get the moo, moo award.
no joe, no bo, nj
Oil just hit $106 a barrel. Obama is "pondering" tapping the strategic oil reserves.
Libyan rebels are begging for help. Obama is "mulling" his options.
Ok Jo No, what options should the president take, Now before you answer understand he has military advisers that are a hell of alot more smarter than you. so what No Jo launch a war, or do thwe no Fly zone, or what please tell us Mrs want to be president.
With oil hitting 106 a barrel and our dependency on oil, i would not release the oil reserves, i will only say this, that Failed president Jimmy carter you show so much hate for had the right idea and that was to reduce our dependency on oil, this was30 years ago. while he was in his fail presidency, he made car makers increase fuel standards, decrease carbon admissions from Cars, if those laws were not in-acted our dependency would be twice as much as it is not, if Reagan would have continued this we may have all eclectic cars by now. Just think No Jo that fail president Obama last year challenges auto makers to find new ways to lessen our oil dependency, and less than 2 years later, all automakers(GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda) have 1 electric car in production, in 2 more years each will have 3 electric cars, that the only way, but since your retired and don't care in 20 years what this world looks like i understand.
Do you want Obama to do what Bush 2 did and that go to the Saudis and beg then to pump more, thats not the answer, or i got is, lets just invade Lybia and take over there Oil, (that did not work in Iraq).
your Girl friend Joanna is Now Jimmy Crow and you still are your best Friend Bull Connor, i want to know when you two yankees are moving south to be more comfortable with your own kind.
At some point you can not just force car manufactures to increase the fuel economy of cars. The internal combustion engine is not a device of unlimited efficiency and they are already designed to be as close as possible to thermodynamic efficiency as possible with current technology.
If a car manufacturer could make a car that was reasonably priced and got drastically better mileage than current vehicles, they would be doing it by all means. This would be hugely profitable for them.
Also, nothing in this world comes free. While many of the environmental regulations, especially pertaining to diesel emissions do make the emissions cleaner, they reduce the efficiency of the engine. I am not sure of exact figures, but one thing that needs to be pondered are emissions per volume of fuel used, rather than just total emissions.
Think about this hypothetical situation.
Imagine a regulation decreases the emissions by 10 percent, but this causes a 10 percent reduction in fuel economy...is it worth it? All it means is that the emissions per volume of fuel will be the same, but the vehicle got more complicated (in many cases) or more expensive.
I hate to compare ourselves to Europe, because the US is far different, but they are doing some amazing things over there with their diesel powered vehicles.
"I am not sure of exact figures" - MBeaty
I find that very easy to believe. As for the rest of your post...not so much.
John A:
I hope these people do not work anyplace that requires them to pass a lie detector test. The three of them would fail when they got to the honesty and moral questions.
The oil prices are going up because, as you said, the Speculators on Wall Street you are raking in the dough. We get less than 1% of our oil from Lybia and besides why are the prices going up when that oil has not even been pumped out yet let alone refined and at the gas stations. It is all Wall Street not President Obama.
They still will not acknowledge that the economy is improving, albeit slowly. And did not the GOP/TP try and take credit for the good report last week? Hypocrites all of them. They have no new ideas, the ones they have suck so they are floundering around in their own crap trying to keep the American people from asking them where are their plans for Jobs, where are the plans for the economy.
In my opinion these people just get more and more repugnant and bold in their lies every day. They just have no shame, no morals and very few ethics lately. Funny, the GOP never used to be like that.
Wrong...as is most of your weird post US Navy. As a starting point the private sector gained enough confidence after the November elections to start hiring again. Cutting 60 billion is a pittiance compared to what should be cut from the public employee sector.
What tax cuts? Obama just didn't get the tax increase he was counting on. The tax rate has been the same for years, he didn't cut them one bit.
It is not the job of the government to "create" jobs. It is to provide an environment conducive to business and jobs. Wild government spending on useless programs ($2 billion for an emissions free coal plant for which the technology won't exist for 10 years, $200 million to get new hybrid cars for government employees, a $2 billion high speed rail nobody seems to want, etc, etc) does not foster confidence. The stimulus did give us a small upswing in the economy but it was shortlived and much too costly. ARRA and TARP averaged over $200,000 per temporary job. That is not good use of taxpayer money.
Bev...what the heck are you talking about? Basic human rights? Could you be any more overdramatic? What human rights are being violated? Is the State of Wisconsin going to start hiring 11 year olds, making them work 20 hours a day and pay them $0.25 an hour? Even Franklin Roosevelt, the champion of socialized democracy, stated there was no reason for public workers to unionize and that it was counterproductive.
Regulation is, in fact, directly responsible for cleaner, more efficient autos, for the expanding variety of propulsion systems, and of course for many life-saving safety features. And cars can be made that get yet still greater fuel economy - the technology is available, and is being pressed forward.
I remember the day in the early 70's when Ford, GM and Chrysler were set to appear at a Congressional hearing to urge rollback of pending mandatory increases in average fuel efficiency and limits on tailpipe emissions. It was a very contentious situation, and all three automakers agreed that current technol9ogy was not capable of meeting the law's demands.
The banner headline in almost every paper in the country that morning was that Honda annoounced its new CVCC engine design, which not only met the upcoming standards, but in fact exceeded standars to come into effect five years in the future. In fact, Honda's Civic, with a CVCC engine, was the last auto sold in America to stop using leaded gas and mount a catalytic converter.
About that time, California set its own, more stringent stadard for emissions control, fuel economy, and a future deadline for having a percentage of vehicles offered for sale in the state be "LEV" and "ZEV" autos. That's "Low Emissions Vehicles," and "Zero Emissions Vehicles." Those standards were met because Calfiornia, one of the largest auto markets in the country, forced the technology.
The designs appearing now - especially hybrids - were actually available 20 years ago. It is equally feasible now to power vehicles with methanol fuel cells that were created more than 20 years ago at Cal Tech, working with the Jet Propulson Laboratory in Pasadena. And off-the-shelf conversion kits are for sale now, to adapt gasoline-powered engines to run on propane, compressed natural gas, and methanol.
America's addiction to petroleum is unnecessary and ultimately unwise. There is every reason in the world to push ahead with alternative fuels adoption as well as alternative propulsion systems.
I believe the saddest part of all of this is, politics will bring this country to it`s knees, as long as we allow both sides to keep everyone at each others throats. When any politician has a mind set on any issue, and changes that mind set, just to get votes, that person should never be allowed in any political office. Why? Because issues are the last thing on that politicians mind, and the well being of the people is the last thing that politician will ever care about. In that politicians mind, it`s not about the people, but about getting in to that position of power. Now, I`m not a Republican, or a Democrat, but I am someone who is watching both parties fight while the rest of the country falls down around the people, and the people themselves bicker over which side is the best. If the fighting doesn`t stop now, it will be to late, and when this country finally hits bottom, just ask yourself if the bickering was well worth having your country fall apart because of it. This whole mess is unbelievable.
And electricity comes from what? 80% is produced by means of fossil fuels. We could never retool for everyone to have electric cars. They are a fad. We could switch over to natural gas, hire people at refueling stations to put the fuel in the cars. Full service again. And we would be energy independent. Yes the govt. does tell car companies what fuel mileage they should get on each auto. There have been engine designs that could get up to 100 mpg, but our govt. will not allow them on the road. The only reason is FET. Oil revenue is the #1 source of money for our govt. Ronald Reagan was right. Govt. is not the solution to our problems, they are the cause of our problems.
John A -
Read post #1.4. I pretty well laid it out there. Please try to refute one thing, genius.
So your comments start with some blather about a truth squad, then childish crap, then speculators. Wow, what a relevation?
Remember when the prices would shoot up during hurricane season / production disruptions in the Gulf?
Why is it that a storm that may temporarily disrupt a few wells could afffect oil prices, but the shutdown of the entire deepwater Gulf (most of the production) doesn't effect oil prices?
Guess what genius, there is actually an answer, (at least as to why prices haven't jumped more before this year, but we now have a new baseline from which the prices will continue to rise.)
Smart enough to give the answer, or are you a clueless Feisty / Bev?
Answer and we will continue your education.
I don't think I'm going out on a limb here to say the GOP candidate with the best chance to win in 2012 is Romney. He would appeal to a wider swath of voters than any other known/potential GOP candidate, and he has much less political "baggage" than some of the others, like good ol' Newt or That Pig With Lipstick. But no version of Romney can beat Obama in 2012. Period. Romney isn't going to beat an incumbent Obama with the economy improving and expanding. It takes away what might have been Romney's strongest selling point, if the economy is already rolling along under Obama. Romney offers little else OTHER than a strong business/economic background. Voters won't try to fix it, if it ain't broke.
Romney stands no real chance. But as a proud progressive, I still wouldn't sweat a Romney win as much as say a Palin or Grinch victory. And I do truly hope Palin gets the nod; she would be on the receiving end of the biggest shellacking in the modern history of US politics. But Romney cannot beat Obama barring some almost inconceivable stumble on the part of the president, just prior to the election. That's Romney's best shot, and it's so slim it becomes invisible if you turn it sideways.
The Big 3 were basically against innovation back then because it would cut into their short term profits, i.e., they'd have to invest more in R&D.
Most automobiles could run on pure methanol if certain components in the fuel delivery system were made of the correct materials. Methanol slowly corrodes aluminum, and eats away certain plastics and polymers. Flex fuel vehicles have overcome this problem already. Even just adding a an ounce of acetone to a full tank of gasoline will improve your mileage quite a bit by lowering the surface tension of the fuel (the fuel injectors can spray out a finer mist), but as with methanol, acetone slowly eats certain plastics and polymers that have been popular components of fuel delivery systems on internal combustion engines.
Moo, moo, Bob - and Kevin, too, for that matter.
You can't possibly have anything that would "educate" me, buster. I worked with the oil industry for more than 20 years on public policy matters, emergency response programs, air quality regulatory issues, and much more.
Refinery shutdown or pirepline/distribution disruption almost immediatelyaffects fuell prices - and that occurs with regularity. The BP oil spill sure did affect prices here in Florida for a time, but the lost production was made good from other sources. Right now, global oil prices are rising less out of concern over Libyan oil, although that specifically affects Italy and other European consumers, than out of concern over revolution and reform disrupting other Middle Easter suppliers, and the steadily-increasing demand for petroleum in China and India. In addition extended bad weather over much of North America has raised demand for fuel oil. The entire system of oil trading is really quite complex - just consider the oddity that a great deal of oil is produced and refined in Calfiornia, yet the price there rises faster than most of the rest of the country.
This isn't Obama's fault. Moo, moo.
As for Kevin, calling electric vehicles a "fad" is a big error. In pure or hybrid form, they are here and grabbing an increasing share of market. The infrastructure is expanding, too - a number of cities are already installing recarge posts all over their communities. I wrote about this at some length for a special issue of The Lundberg Letter in 1992. Moo, moo.
John A-
You sound more intelligent than Bev and Feisty, yet you go to their same mindless conclusion.
You don't understand supply? You don't understand all the items posted in 1.4 cut supply? You don't understand that Obama has intentionally restricted supply?
What is the difference between stupidity and willful stupidity?
Leave it to MSNBC to create something as partisan and empty as "Romney 3.0".
Since November we have seen a different version of Obama every 2 days... and sadly they offer little improvement over the pre-November version.
Only in America, Couldn't have said it any better.
Beverly in Chicago Comment collapsed by the community
A Great Deal Of (Tax-Deductible) Satisfaction
Only a plutocrat could feel good about usurping American democracy, opposing labor unions, health care reform, stimulus spending, and cap-and-trade legislation by not paying their fair share of taxes.
Of course none of the attributes really prove just how much these plutocrats are worth. Unquestionably, one can see (even a blind person)these types of people are morally bankrupt.
No offense to anyone but, if the Gestapo only numbered 32,000 for the entire population of Germany, just a few in thisplutocracy are denying 98% of this United States’ population. Similarly, the US Supreme Court’s decision of Citizens United seems overt; but like the Gestapo Law the activities of the Gestapo were free from any review by courts of law.
Citizens United and the Westboro Baptist Church’s ruling by the US Supreme Court is covertly allowing American values to erode.
Regretfully, American is beginning to languish by the manacles of a plutocracy.
“When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir.”
Rev Dr Martin Luther King Jr.quote
If we are to “Let Freedom Ring” across this nation, we must not be reticence that the plutocrats of America are allowing the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence to default on this promissory note of material prosperity, guaranting the unalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
We are not the enemies of the state rather we did the work that made/ makes America productive; so lets not allow these Robber Barons try to rake US over the coals.
Stop listening to the pseudo professor Glenn Beck and FOX LIES. Otherwise these right wing tools will drag the middle and poor working classes into an unrestrained mountain of debt; in addition to silencing our voices and collective bargaining power.
Wisconsin is the epicenter for basic human rights and our reluctance to not allow republican governors sponsored by the Koch brothers to attack unions.
The Kochs’ involvement is no longer secretive. The Kochtopus is planning to surface and spread it’s toxic tentacles.
BTW: does anyone agree with me? Is it possible since Jared Lougher, the suspect of Arizona, totally look like Glenn Beck? They could be related; perhaps a brother, cousin, or possibly an illegitimate son? After all, they both are consumed with anger and confusion.
Below their images are juxtaposed. It’s uncanny; really.
http://totallylookslike.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/80f28a99-f691-45af-b9a8-495f02871179.jpg
I hope Romney doesn't get the bid. Anyone that created any kind of health system that even looks a little like Obamacare is braindead. His state may never recover financially from the subsidizing, and they have the highest premiums in the country (and what's funny is that people actually think that Obamacare is going to be better).
John A you seem to feel it's the government's responsibility to pay to find alternative energy sources. I disagree. I never saw that in the constitution. Why should my taxdollars go to fund a high speed rail that Amtrak is going to profit on? Why should my taxdollars pay for the research, and to build, a zero emmissions coal plant that the electric company is going to profit from?
You complain incessantly about republicans looking out for big business, but what it's a pittiance when compared to what the democrats fund on their behalf.
Most of what the republicans do for corporations is provide tax breaks....and no, I don't feel it's right. But, it is the only thing that keeps US corps from just picking up and moving to a country that will give them the tax breaks.
Neither side is coming out and saying what I hear from the majority on the street.....stop funding the rest of the world. Stop sending aid. Stop providing defense for countries. Stop outsourcing our jobs. Start taxing the hell out of companies that outsource, and if they want to do business in the US (we are still the largest consumer), place tariffs on imports.
With the numbers below.... people please look at the actual deficit, tax rate, and budget before you post.... the actual cost of the wars weren't included in the budget until Obama took office. Also the budget for 2009 was actually passed by Bush.
President Year Tax % Tax Budget Deficit Debt GDP
Clinton 1995 18% $1,321 $1,600 $279 $4,950 $7,344
Clinton 1996 17% $1,344 $1,600 $256 $5,200 $7,704
Clinton 1997 18% $1,512 $1,700 $188 $5,400 $8,219
Clinton 1998 18% $1,589 $1,700 $111 $5,500 $8,661
Clinton 1999 18% $1,671 $1,800 $129 $5,641 $9,217
Clinton 2000 19% $1,882 $1,900 $18 $5,659 $9,825
Bush 2001 18% $1,867 $2,000 $133 $5,792 $10,233
Bush 2002 17% $1,779 $2,200 $421 $6,213 $10,531
Bush 2003 16% $1,730 $2,300 $570 $6,783 $10,976
Bush 2004 15% $1,804 $2,400 $596 $7,379 $11,676
Bush 2005 17% $2,161 $2,700 $539 $7,918 $12,450
Bush 2006 17% $2,225 $2,800 $575 $8,493 $13,270
Bush 2007 17% $2,400 $2,900 $500 $8,993 $13,878
Bush 2008 14% $2,082 $3,100 $1,018 $10,011 $14,384
Obama 2009 12% $1,713 $3,600 $1,887 $11,898 $14,097
Obama 2010 15% $2,147 $3,800 $1,653 $13,551 $14,509
From the article: “The U.S. today is able to borrow at historically low interest rates, paying 0.68 percent on a two-year note that it had to offer at 5.1 percent before the financial crisis began in 2007.
Does this give justification to borrowing more money? Because the interest rate is so low does that mean this country should borrow more money?
HELL NO! Since when is it a good thing to borrow? When has it ever been a good thing to borrow? I can hear all those with mortgages say, "If I didn't borrow, I couldn't own a home." Well, rent! Do you realize that you will be paying back over 4 times the value of your home when you take out a mortgage? If your home is valued at $100,000 you will be paying back $400,000. What value is there in that? No wonder people have such an unbelievable misunderstanding of money. They have been tricked into believing borrowing is good and not having is bad. If you want something save for it.
Our government is filled with people that think borrowing against the country's future is a good thing. Well, we are at the dawn of that future. To all those that think this country can sustain the overspending and overborrowing, all it will take is one stumble and our economy will fail.
Do you realize that the largest lender to our country is the United States government??? I'll bet you think China is.... wrong!!! Our government has borrowed from all reserve funds such as Social Security and the Fed and they are the number one mortgagier for the government. China is about number 4, Japan is 5, and several other countries fall under that. Any one of them could cause a default if world currencies take a tumble. We are on the edge of losing our status of world reserve currency. The IMF is just short of voting the dollar out... and it could happen this year. Why? Because of our debt! The IMF realizes that we are printing money just to pay the bills and the dollar is becoming worthless.
To the liberal regulars and Glen Beck/Limbaugh haters... your comments and back slapping make me laugh. You are just as blind as the typical moronic individual that has no clue. Your belief that by minimizing anyone that has a conservative ideology, makes your opinions valueless... why? Because you aren't as enlightened as you think you are and give yourselves credit for. Your narrow vision has blinded you to the other 359 degrees of sight.
Brian,
really? Homeowners that borrow are fiscal idiots? Wow, why do you hate Americans?
If you RENT you have zero chance of building equity,...AND with an appropriate down payment - house payments are often cheaper than renting. AND - always accelerate your payments to reduce long term effect. AND the majority of home foreclosures were on JUMBO loans,...so the pseudo wealthy have no right to homeownership, too! Right?
I am 67 and the political environment is the most toxic that it ever has been in my lifetime. I was in the service for over ten years and learned how to have political debates with co-workers and friends without anyone ever being able to quite tell which side I was on. An an intelligence analyst, I always prided myself on applying the same critical thinking to politics that I applied to intelligence reports.
I generally tell people that my political philosophy is this: A car needs both an engine and brakes to function. I see Progressives as that engine. I see Conservatives as the brakes. (And I mean real progressives and conservatives, not the bizarre labels that each side applies to the other. But a car needs something else --- a steering wheel. And Independent voters have always been that steering wheel, ultimately deciding where the Nation goes with the republicans and Democrats deciding only how fast it goes. And now it seems that on occasion it can extend to stopping the political "car" completely.
According to ever truly objective political scientist that I have met or read, the so-called "neo-conservatives" account for about 5% of voters. These are hard-right strict federalists who believe in a strong and authoritarian Federal government. Conservatives believe that individual rights are subordinate only to the Federal government. There are also about 5% "liberals". Liberals believe that the individual takes priority over the Federal government and that "commonweal" solutions will generally be the best. There are many issues that are difficult to reconcile between neo-cons and conservatives, especially when you starting talking about a limited government which does not intrude into peoples' lives except to combat terrorism and crime. They want good roads without potholes, but no speed limits of road use taxes.
There are about 15% of voters who consider themselves "conservatives." Conservatives are far more to the center than neo-cons. They believe in a strong military controlled by a weak Federal government. They generally oppose social legislation or regulation, but once that social law or regulation is in force, it becomes part of their "conservatory." There are about 15% Progressives. They believe that individual rights are paramount and that the government is there to regulate commerce, provide for defense, and to protect the individual. The Progressive philosophy would make sweeping social change, but in steps with some amount of vetting before each next step. They also have Liberal/Conservative issues that are difficult to reconcile. Such as how do you both regulate and protect individual rights at the same time.
And that leaves only about 50% -- the Independents --- as a major group. Many Independents self-nominate as Progressives or Conservatives. But in truth, they are neither. Independents are issue-by-issue voters. They may vote Pro-Choice and then approve of strict regulation of abortion. They tend to be fiscally conservative but socially progressive. They tend to ignore issues that do not effect them immediately and directly. Independents are very aware of social needs (as expressed in gender and racial issues, for example) but also would like to see everything pay-as-you-go. Independents hate to have other people make up their minds for them and really despise take-no-prisoners-make-no-compromise politics.
This country is very much middle-of-the-road. The American people are slightly conservative by nature, but all government is slightly progressive by nature. The American people, like most people everywhere, fear too much change so the conservatism makes sense. But the function of government is to create a greater good which is more than the sum of its parts. The difficult issue to resolve within Independents is that of "American Exceptionalism" --- the belief that Americans are "special" and exempt somehow from forces that control other peoples and governments. They usually believe that anything American is superior to anything "foreign" no matter the evidence to the contrary.
The other political grouping that I generally mention are the Libertarians. Libertarians are neither right nor left nor middle-of-the-road. They are nothing more than the current incarnation of government loathing anarchists. They want good roads with no potholes and no taxes. they are certain that their neighbors will keep up the roads if only given a chance. Mostly they are attached to nonsensical ideas like a return to a gold standard or opening all our borders with no regulation of immigration of the flow of money.
What I see going on these days is a lot of name-calling and finger-pointing. Shrill loud voices dominate every discussion. Reasonable debate is not allowed by the lunatics at either fringe. And both groups seem to think that they are American Exceptionalism personified.
Right now, I think there is a little bit of a reality check going on, especially by Independents and moderate Republicans. They do not like the tone of the political rhetoric. They do not like the completely out of tune music that politicians produce. People expect government to take care of some things --- defense, progress in science, regulation of the economy, provision for natural disasters, and an orderly and reasoned approach to problems. They expect the government to stay out of their lives and especially out of their religion. They do not feel that Rush Limbaugh or Sarah Palin or Newt Gingrich represents them, but neither do they think that people like James Carville represent them. They tend to stand up for themselves. Most Independents think that both yellow-dog Democrats and hardline Republicans are both absurd.
Independents have been getting increasingly riled up for the past 15 months or so. They are tired of both Republican obstructionism and Democratic whining. And more and more they are getting tired of the Tea Party and its "know-nothing" philosophy of unworkable and often bizarre ideas. They are tired of using security as a reason for every bad thing government wants to do. They are tired of unregulated airlines. And they are tired of people who believe that if you shout a thing loud enough and often enough that it somehow makes it true. They are tired of the lack of civil public debate.
And eventually the Independents are going to put their foot down. So while all the rhetoric is happening on the fringes, a lot of people are going to be surprised over the next year or so.
Aquatain - Mbeaty presented his case well. Automakers have a variety of options...
Increased mileage - Reduce vehicle weight, improve aerodynamics, improve powertrain efficiency, modify fuels. Lose low cost vehicle repairs and add costs.
Increased safety - increase structural strength (add weight), add airbags, advanced braking systems and computer sensors (increased wgt and costs)
Increased performance - ignore mileage, change the powertrain for performance, change the vehicles wgt distribution
Each of the above requires changes in the other two. Ever see a solar car? it is aerodynamic and light weight, but I bet rider comfort is lacking and being hit by another vehicle would probably cause its driver to have a very bad day.
Great feedback Chris. Well thought out, very thorough, capably expressed. This Liberal says please come back whenever you wish. You've a lot to contribute. We probably won't agree on everything but this is America--we don't have to.
Great Post, Chris. Your visuals are outstanding. I tend to agree with your position(s) that we have loat our 'balance' in our political discourse. Like any pendulum, momentum will cause it to swing to the left and right before it 'settles' at equilibrium. Right now, our political pendulum is swinging EXTREME right; it will swing EXTREME left again before we reach some sort of equilibrium.
Excellent analysis and I hope you continue to post here.
The GOP/TP steps up its attacks on the rights of US Citizens. Remember ACORN and the claims of voter fraud that were disproved? It turned out the GOP wanted to stop a successful organization that registered a predominately democratic electorate to vote. Right out of the Karl Rove playbook, see below.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-atlas/acorn-scandal-offers-key_b_386064.html
“After the 2000 presidential election, Karl Rove (President Bush's top political adviser) and conservative Republicans orchestrated an attack on Acorn for alleged "voter fraud," as part of a campaign to suppress the voting of minorities and the poor. As part of this effort, a U.S. Attorney was asked to investigate Acorn”.
“The investigation came up empty-handed, but the GOP operatives persisted. The allegations of "voter fraud" hit a peak in October 2008, aided by Arizona Sen. John McCain's charge in a presidential debate with Barack Obama that Acorn "is now on the verge of maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history in this country, maybe destroying the fabric of democracy."
“Although the voter fraud never materialized, the stories planted during the election season yielded a bountiful crop of misinformation”.
In 22 statehouses across the country, Republican lawmakers are once again raising the issuer of “voter fraud” to try and push through legislation that would dramatically have a negative effect on the voting rights of college students, rural voters, senior citizens, the disabled and the homeless. This is another flavor of the popular GOP game plan (designed by Karl Rove) that if you cannot silence the opposition, then take away their platform and/or access to the system. If those that oppose the republican tyranny cannot be held in check, the next best thing you can do is deny them a platform to speak from whether it be via the media, internet, public rallies etc. In this case they are attacking the source; our constitutional right to vote.
There is no documented proof that a “voter fraud” conspiracy even exists, just like in the ACORN Scandal and if one did (which does not) there are already very severe penalties on the books. For example, In Missouri voter fraud carries a penalty of no less than 5 years in prison and a $250,000 fine. This is not about voter fraud, it as about the disenfranchisement of a select group of people (democrats) to keep them form voting, PERIOD.
So what are these states up to?
http://thinkprogress.org/2011/03/05/state-disenfranchisement-schemes/
WISCONSIN: “In the midst of Gov. Scott Walker’s (R) showdown with the Main Street Movement last week, Republicans rammed through a voter ID bill that critics have said shows “zero respect for Wisconsin voters.” Some analysts have said that the bill also shows little respect for the Constitution. Salon’s David Weigel wrote from Madison that “the legislation, as written, appeared to have constitutional problems that would shred it in court.”
TEXAS: “Despite facing a $10-11 billion budget shortfall, Gov. Rick Perry prioritized a voter ID bill as an “emergency item” last month — forcing the Texas legislature to act on the bill before dealing with the state’s budget crisis. Since then the Senate has passed a voter ID law that would be the most restrictive in the nation and almost certainly depress turnout among low-income Texans”.
MISSOURI: “In a party-line vote, state senators approved both a constitutional amendment and a bill requiring voter identification at the polls. Afterwards, one Democratic State Senator tweeted that the Senate had “just voted to disenfranchise at least 230,000 voters.”
COLORADO: “The House has passed a bill requiring voters to present photo identification at the polls. Secretary of State Scott Gessler (R) has called the measure his top legislative priority”.
TENNESSEE “Two weeks a go, the State Senate passed a bill requiring voters to present a driver’s license before voting. The bill would create a significant burden to voting for the state’s more than 500,000 adults without a driver’s license. One Democratic state senator called the bill a “modern-day poll tax…”
This Karl Rove tactic is in the same agenda that he admitted to a few weeks ago when he said that if you can reduce the Union Members by 10,000 here and there you can make a big dent in their ability to raise campaign funds which would hurt the Democrats come 2012. Well if you can disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of voters who typically vote Democrat in every State you can artificially reduce voter turn out, which helps the GOP/TP especially in close elections.
So far the GOP/TP have tried to repeal HCR and failed, they have attacked the reproductive rights of women and the Gay community, they have attack Unions and Collective Bargaining, they have attacked teachers, fire fighters, and law enforcement, and virtually every major Social Service Program that predominately supports the Middle Class and those less fortunate. And now they are after the right of American Citizens to vote. In next few months they claim they are going after Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security. Does anybody remember them saying on the campaign trail last year that this was their agenda? I seem to remember it was about creating Jobs in this country and the Economy. So much for listening to the American People.
Sorry Navy: My post should have been under your second post. Great minds see great injustices.
Ron and Navy, Great minds....great job
Can we say running scared.... if they cant win honorably they will try ANYTHING to make it happen. Keep the light right on them.
Ron;
Great post and we are on the same page. These are right out of the Karl Rove manual.
Very strong evidence that the GOPTP knows their agenda fails with the American people. If you're right, why do you have to work so hard to keep people from exercising their constitutional rights? Why do you have to create "scandals" out of shadow puppets, making people afraid of "voter fraud" that is completely absent in the real world? If the fraud is real, why do you have to fake video to make it look like things are happening that really aren't?
Sheez, "Great minds"? Do you guys ever have an original idea for a posts, just the thinkformeprogress regurgitations, huh?
Anyway, what is wrong with a voter I.D.? Can't stack the box with dead voters and every other Dem fraud? Paying homeless with sandwiches to vote for the lib favorite?
What is wrong with you guys?
US Navy, Ron, excellent posts this morning.
We only have to look at Ohio last week to prove that if the GOP can't win honorably, they'll do whatever it takes. Two committees did not have the votes to get the union-busting legislation out of committee. Remove one GOP "no" voter and replace it with a GOP "yes" voter. If democrats had pulled this stunt, the GOP would have gone ballistic and the media would have covered it extensively. Hardly a blipp on the MSM radar.
bob,
Why don't we go ahead and tatoo everyone at birth, too? If the post card (or other mail) finds it's way to you and THAT address matches the record on the books,...that has been considered valid for DECADES. Why the change?
And would this change have helped the Republican Secretary of State from committing HIS fraudulent and felonious acts?
The main reason the photo id doesn't make sense is that in many states you can get a 2 year drivers license; but you only need 45 days (in Missouri) to register to vote in your new district. This is an undue burden in fees to change your id - in fees, in time and in bureaucratic BS.
Of course you never deal in facts; but show me ONE instance of actual vote FRAUD where the homeless voted? If you don't have an address,...or proof of address - HOW DO YOU VOTE? You Repubs are so caught up in the myth of possible injustice or crime that when the actual facts of WHO are caught committing the Voter Crimes is revealed, you pretend you can't read or something. It's so funny really - to watch the pretzel twist and turn,...
http://www.indystar.com/article/20110303/NEWS/110303019/Indiana-Secretary-State-Charlie-White-indicted-faces-7-felony-counts
Charlie, your buddy Mitch wants you to step down now,...be a good little boy and do what the 'boss' tells ya'! SEVEN felony counts,...WOW! Nothing like the Secretary of State working the inside angles for a little personal gain. Go, Charlie, Go!
US Navy
Those claims of voter fraud in the ranks of ACORN were not disproved. I am at a loss as to why you say they were. ACORN has had a name change but is still very much in business. (Community Organizations International) If you type in ACORN convictions it will give you a list and the list is not short.
I don't think anyone wants it to be true but we don't get to pick the facts we want and discard all others. Some of the convictions were as late as November of last year.
LMFAO...... Wow maggie, I didn't expect to see that much data on ACORN convictions. But your correct those lil buggers have been busy in the last few years.
RVZ,
No President prior to this one has spent more money to secure the border.
No President prior to this one has sent more troops to the border.
Since this president took office there have been more illegals deported that any other administration.
Since this president took office the illegal population has been in decline.
How many people got caught voting, or trying to vote fraudulently?
No evidence of that being the issue Conservatives claim as they attack the voting rights of Americans.
Can someone explain to maggie the difference between REGISTRATION fraud and VOTE FRAUD?
I don't have the patience or inclination to deal with those too blind to see.
I'd like to see the PHOTO ID of Mickey Mouse on Election Day,...HA - the ignorant just CANNOT wrap their brain around the issue; but they've been trained WELL to perpetuate the lies,...haven't they?
PS. Charlie White actually committed a felonious crime,...by VOTING criminally.
Bob -180... nice rebuttal. During the Nov 2010 election my election board wanted me to produce my Iowa drivers licence to prove that I was who I claimed to be. No problem!
Apparently the FR libbies want to have voter/registration fraud and identity theft run rampant in our country. Clara suggesting a tatoo at birth! Really Clara, what is next, an RFD chip?
Can someone please explain to dear sweetie clara that either fraud is wrong and she gives us all such a gem as this...
Yes sweetie clara you have been trained well, but not because you are ignorant, for we all know you are not that! After all there is a cure for ignorance but not for what you and many other FR libs are infected with.
Dennis - imagine that, and their is so much more to do! BTW - are your numbers adjusted to 1980 $$$?
Clara KCMO
While I don't claim to be as well educated as you,I do know the difference between the two. Do you really believe that ACORN would break the law and spend money on something that was not paying off? Some of those people have had to make it through to vote.
Sorry to test your patience but I don't recall putting your name on that post.
Well maggie, that's what happens in a public forum...you put your opinion out there and anyone is free to reply. If you want a private conversation write a letter...but not to "the editor", those are also available for public use and answer.
The best justification you can come up with for putting new restrictions on that most fundamental right...the right to vote...is "I'll bet someone out there voted improperly."
That's the very definition of a solution in search of a problem...unless the problem you're seeking to solve is how to keep "the wrong people" from exercising their constitutional rights.
I have no problem with showing photo ID to vote.This is not a new restriction for Ohio so I assumed it was true everywhere. It can also be the last four numbers of your SS number or a number of other legal documents even a recent utility bill.
I did over react to Clara because I was taken back by being called ignorant for stating a fact. The statement was that ACORN was proven innocent and that is not true.
Most laws are made to deter people from some illegal act so I just don't see the problem with this one, You have to show ID to check out a book, cash a check,use your charge card,buy a beer or cigarettes, rent a movie, even rent a car so why not to vote.
Maggie, I'm OK with a reasonable expectation that the person voting is the person registered, but there are a whole host of proposals out there mainly directed at putting limits on who votes. I'm not OK with that. A photo ID is very reasonable for most of us. What about a senior citizen or poor person without a drivers license? In my area the only way to do that is to find your way to one location that's shoved clear up next to the county line, and not on a bus route.
So I'm OK with reasonable efforts to prevent voter fraud, but I think it's a line we have to tread carefully and prosecution rates for actual voter fraud indicate it's not really a problem. Processing a voter registration for "Donald Duck" because someone gets paid by the card is wrong, but it's different than "Donald" showing up at the polls and expecting to vote. That's a much bigger crime.
Laying Off Teachers In Wisconsin:
It's pretty obvious that when you lay off teachers, class sizes get bigger. Lay off a lot of teachers and class sizes get much bigger. Republicans have kids too. Don't they want to keep class size small? Well, maybe not.
The GOP/TP is also pushing a voucher system for private schools. What does this mean? Republicans can send their kids to private schools using public school dollars. Talk about giving your kids an unfair advantage! I suspect this plan has been in the works for some time.
Great post Ron... It seems that when people talk about laying off teachers, it's OK because they work for the government.... when did our citizenry get so brain-washed to a point that they are too dumb to think for themselves...
OK... so we gain 250K private jobs, but we lose 250K public sector jobs... by my math, that's a wash isn't it? We say the federal government is too big? compared to what? Over the last 50 years, the taxes we pay as a nation or as a percentage of our GDP has gone down, but the cost of everything in this nation has gone up.
Health care cost and military spending is the reason why America is in such the dire situation it is in today (trust me, I've done the math on my lil excel spreadsheet).... but people seem to think the teachers are over paid.... don't people realize that the average salary for teachers across the country is $48,000 and that they actually have bachelors (some master and PhD) degrees... in the Private sector, I think they'll probably make more..... because they chose they carrier as a sacrifice does not mean we should disrespect the position as lazy slobs....
Also, when the compare the average teacher salary to the average private employee, that's disingenuous since the average private employee does not have a college degree... a large percentage do, but not the average... so the news media should stop making false comparisons...
Good morning, Ron. Of course, it's been in the works for a long time. But it's funny you should mention this. I had been looking exactly such an opening. In this weekend's Madison newspaper, there was a very disturbing article about an educator who was very influential in the No Child Left Behind (NCLB) movement, who was appointed to study it and determined that it was a total and complete failure. She also had some very interesting thing to say about the current proposed education "reforms" in Wisconsin:
http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/education/article_68986ba0-45d0-11e0-be47-001cc4c002e0.html
Good Morning Anna Molly:
It took a few days to ponder what is going on, now the door is wide open. Run right through it and tell it like it is.
Is there some reason the children of Democrats couldn't use vouchers to send their children to private schools?
Read my article, above, and ask yourself why you think they should.
It means that people want to get their schools out of the grip of the unions. The unions in fact are the major impediment to why public schools can not, and will not, improve. What it means is that schools and teachers will be rated on merit, and not on seniority. What it means is that there will be competition among schools so that they will be innovative and receptive to new ideas and new technologies. Liberals and the unions continually want to spend more and more money on an inefficient and corrupt system, that is their warped idea of reform. A little competition will go a long way to solving that problem.
As NCLB has proven, when you make education a private enterprise, and you make profit the motive, you undermine the very foundation of education. The child is no longer the central focus. As I recall it, Neil Bush had a big stake in an "education" software company that was perhaps the main incentive for his brother's push for NCLB. And look how that turned out.
Leave education to educators. Education is NOT a business and cannot be successful if the main goal is to produce profit. Furthermore, when education is privatized, then there are no checks and balances or uniform sets of standards that will guarantee that every child gets the foundation that he or she needs. Private schools cherry-pick their students and don't want to be bothered with those nasty special-needs students. Where will those students go, even with their "vouchers"? God forbid you should have one. Only the public schools are effectively equipped to deal with those children.
The issue with voucher programs is that they do no account for the kids that proverbially "fall through the cracks". Private and parochial schools do not want the bad kids, the poor kids or the dumb kids - they leave those kids in public schools.
This is why you can laugh at someone the next time they try telling you that vouchers work. Ask them for a comparative study of student achievements comparing public and private schools with kids of identical demographics. They cant show you because a study doesnt exist. Why? Because private schools dont want bad kids, poor kids or dumb kids. And because it is a private school they dont have to let them in.
Will the schools take them is the question.
Anyone who does not see Walker's vendetta against public school teachers as a further war from the right wing on women and children is not paying attention. Women are in the teaching professions in large number. Children occupy the schools. This is a effort by Walker to push forward his "taliban light" agenda. And vouchers? Just an effort from the right wing nuts to bleed money away from public schools, force children into religious school to brainwash them. This from the "we must LIVE the Constitution" bunch. Do you suppose the day will come when they actually read the document?
It means the wealthy elites who run the Conservative Movement no longer feel it's necessary to hide their attack on the middle class. They feel so insulated from the "common people" that they believe waging war on one of the bedrock principles of America--a good education for ALL--is in their best interest. They don't even realize they're destroying the United States in the process. This road leads us nowhere except to status as an also-ran nation, a shadow of our former selves.
Pretty sure teachers still had unions 10-15 years ago before education took a dive. Your conjecture is garbage and baseless.
I find the single largest impediment to a childs education is their parents. Go spend a few days in a public school - watch the poor kids get dropped off at school by their sweat pants wearing parents so they can get their breakfast (which is probably one of two good meals they get - the second is the school lunch), the mother yelling at the HS guidance counselor that its the schools fault her son knocked up a girl and is on drugs and watch as a parent who will scream at the principal because her kid didn't start at the most recent basketball game.
Yeah - the biggest impediment to public education is people like you.
It's my understanding that the voucher system the GOPTP is pushing eliminates the wages earned cap which would allow rich kids to attend private schools on the tax payer dollar. Now, I don't have a problem with rich kids going to private schools but if the idea is to lift children up and out of poverty by education, giving a hand to the rich does the opposite.
Mike:
Thank you for your comments. Your point is well made.
Jess, Vouchers are another way for the rich to get a tax cut. How? Well, it is public money that is used to subsidize private schools by lowering the tuition fees paid by people to put their children in those schools.
Vouchers, charter schools and the like are what the right wing isusing to undermine public education. This is just another GOP take away from the working class. They don't want the rif raf to get a good education then they would be able to make educated decisions.
The attack on education is just part of the GOP's plan to disassemble all of the government's social programs. Attack at multiple points, they can't defend everything. Time to wake up America before it's to late.
Thank you Mike for explaining why the poor public education of the country is the fault of the poor people. We just need to rid ourselves of the poor people, and everything will be just fine. And you've certainly picked up a worthy ally in Doctor Ron, he also thinks poor people are the problem in the country, you can see so by him agreeing with you 100%.
Keep up the great comments Mike. You certainly represent the Liberal position well.
JoAnna, You would be wrong... as usual. Unions are not the problem with education. There are many factors. Most of the problems with public education begins and ends in the home. Yes the parents!
You people had really bad arithmetic teachers.
If you allow the people who want to remove their children from the public schools to do so, you reduce class size.
That ought to make it easier to teach the remaining children.
As to the wails from the left about cutting school funding- you are wailing to each other. Last year, in my state, the governor cut school funding. A few weeks later, the taxpayers made further cuts by voting down 60% of the school budgets.
The only people whining about it are in the teachers unions.
Go figure.
The Liberals are all lining up! It appears they are having a great run on why the public schools are just so very bad. It's those darn parents! What in the world are those parents thinking, not supporting their kids? Don't they know that "Children are our future!".
Maybe we need to pour more money into parenting and less money into schooling. At least that's what the Liberals think, and they're never wrong.
No not really njnb. You are trying to cloud the issue at hand. Most people know that you right wingers would like the tax break by using government vouchers for their children's private education. Haven't you stiffed the working class enough already? Yeah, we know the answer... Hardly! Charter schools are another smoke screen. Smaller class size? Really? Yeah how about a direct attack on public schools and the children who rely on them.
Mike was spot on in his posts! Please go back and reread (if you even bothered to read them the first time!) them.
Don't forget, nojo, Zuckerberg is PERSONALLY picking up the slack, to the tune of 100 MILLION dollars,...
So yes, let's all be EXACTLY like New Jersey, shall we?
Christie is riding Cory Booker's coat tails - all the way to a 'successful' education model. WTF? You are such an idiot, no jo. Words finally escape me to describe the many ways it is so!
RVZ, Gas prices higher than ever? Well not yet.
NJNB - As to the wails from the left about cutting school funding- you are wailing to each other.
It has been said that a society can be judged by how it treats it elderly, sick and powerless. Now the GOP/TP crowd reaches a new low by attacking public education and children.
It is truely sad and selfish that in this day and age, John Q. Public would rather that their own children's education suffer so that they can keep their property taxes low. They would rather see that state government employees that serve the public, primarily the sick, elderly and poor, need to loose their jobs so that their taxes can remain low.
Apparently this new breed of GOP/TP would rather splurge their money on trendy tech items like the latest Ipad, HDTV or I phone, but couldn't care to spare a single dime on higher taxes to benefit their children's public education.
Your losing track of one thing....... These are my children and I will send them were ever I want to send them. I have had this battle ALL my life much worse than any of you Ron, Bev Feisty and The almighty Navy dude. I have a son who had a stroke at 2 months and was left blind. When he became 4 he was taken from us.....kidnapped Nope. He was confiscated as a ward of the State Dept of the board of education for the blind. And for the next 14 years we paid hell every year in front of liberal educators and administrators who thought they knew exactly how to educate MY son. It was a battle every 4 to 6 months to go through the lesson plans for my son. As they tried to tell me what he could and could not do. I managed to get him main streamed and through a lot of time and trouble we finally got his through High School. Thank god I was able to keep his mind on point with what was going on. He grad. from a tech school with certifications in MS applications and I'm proud to say a conservative! I have managed to save and plan so he will have a home (paid in cash) to live in once I'm gone. I dealt with some of the least professional school admin people and program admins ever in my life.
Jess and Joanna
Jess, you first, some people, THE POOR for example can't afford to send their children to Private Schools, even with a voucher. They depend on the public schools their tax dollars are supposed to provide.
Joanna, MOST people send their children to private schools for one of two reasons:
#1. So they can get the best education possible.
#2. So they can be taught the religious indoctrination (the fourth "r") they support.
There is a third reason, the "White Flight Academies" but we'll just ignore them for the time being.
It has nothing to do with unions.
My wife and I struggled to send our daughter to private school. It was hard and we made the sacrifices. NOT because of unions, but because we wanted her to get the best education possible.
My little Methodist daughter went to Catholic Schools and oddly enough, she set the curve in the Catholic Doctrine religious education classes she was required to take. She did not convert and we did not complain. The education she got was first class. She was the class Valedictorian and got her Master's degree with honors from a PRIVATE COLLEGE, which she attended on an academic scholarship. We are very high on the Catholic School system here in OKC.
I REPEAT, it had nothing to do with unions and everything to do with getting my daughter the best education we could afford to give her.
A voucher system merely takes money out of a struggling public school system and gives it to people who could afford to send their children to private schools (and probably would) anyway.
The system is a diabolical self-fulfilling prophesy. You take money away from schools ($900 million in Wisconsin right?) and turn some of that into vouchers which will go to the wealthy and make the public schools second rate with overcrowded classrooms and few books and equipment. Those public schools are filled with the children of the poor and minorities. It is the cruelest form of racism. Too many of those children, the very children who needed a helping hand, will slip through the cracks. They are denied access to the American dream so those who already benefit from that dream can have MORE and MORE.
You cut school lunch programs, head start programs, breakfast programs, underfund public education and give ALL those saving to the wealthy in the form of vouchers and tax breaks and then you wonder why we have crime in the inner city, why our jails and prisons are full and why unemployment is so high among the nation's minorities.
Well, it must be because they are dumb and lazy, right?
WRONG! It's because you stacked the deck against them and forced them to play by your crooked rules.
When are you folks going to realize the harm you are doing to the young people of this nation. It's not the Teacher's Union that causes poor education, it's the GOP/TP who refuse to recognize the needs of poor children. They need healthy meals, and smaller classes so they can get more individual attention and when that happens they excel. If you supported public education in this country you would see crime rates drop, jail and prison populations decline and you would realize true savings from those programs. But that takes long range thinking and a modicum of generosity from those controlling all the money.
Instead, you create an under-class forced to work in minimum wage jobs and perhaps supplement their meager incomes with petty crimes. Did you learn nothing from "Les Miserables"? Surely you saw the Andrew Loyd Musical Version at least?
The things you do to children in the name of "Fiscal Responsibility" makes me so angry it almost stirs me to violence.
WHY are we falling behind in Math and Science? BECAUSE OF SHORT-SIGHTED GREED and POWER MAD POLITICIANS, not because of the Teacher's Unions. It's Politics like yours Joanna, No Jo, Jeff, Bob-18 and all the rest of you that is causing this nation to fall behind the rest of the world.
Obama/Biden, 2012 FOR OUR CHILDREN!
Never said. Never even insinuated that. Learn to read.
I said the problem with public education is people like you - not poor people. Unless you are poor - which in that case yes - you are the problem. But not because you're poor.
To RVZ: the truth of a post is measured by the extreme response it engenders. Sounds like I struck a nerve. Here is how we do it in MN, and this was law before Pawlenty came in to attempt to destroy the public school system. In MN, you can transfer your kid to a different school within the system. That's it. It must be done for educational purposes, not sports. We can opt out of our school (should have) into the schools around us. That is what should be done. To jollyoldsoul: while I am sorry to hear of the struggles your child had, you are not the only one with a disabled child. My son, badly impaired by Tourette Syndrome, and who has a disability so complex there is a specialist that sees him through telemedicine was also mainstreamed due to the partnership of some very talented teachers, none of whom saw things conservatively. Their mantra to me and to him "YES WE CAN". Outcome? He is able to live independently and work, with some support staff, but mostly the same way others his age live. Yes. We did.
Yes. Yes you did.
People "like me" Mike? Please, do tell. Do tell us all about "people like me".
Why not try a combination of public and charter schools. In the movie Waiting for Superman minority students had to enter a lottery to try to get into charter school. That just shows parents want alternatives. They don't want to send their children to sub-standard schools. Like it or not the teacher's union often blocks these inititives. The majority in this country is neither far-right or far-left. Let's have an honest debate.
Skip and yellowdog - why has spending for k-12 education been increasing over the years, but yet our world ranking has been in decline since say the late 60's or 70's?
Unamerican,
Sorry, not a democrat, nor am I a republican. I am an independent and always have been. Spending increases because COSTS go up in the form of computers and other electronic equipment, books, (now that Texas is re-writing all the history books we'll have to buy new ones) and other materials as well as personnel costs. Likewise the number of children entering classrooms has increased while the number of new teachers entering the job market has actually DECREASED. If we paid them a living wage more of our brightest and best would enter this all important profession. We are reaping what we have sown and that's why the harvest is so poor.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out and it's a good thing because, thanks to people like you, we're going to have a deficit of Rocket Scientists in the near future.
Clara, since you are from Missouri, it is not surprising that you know so little about NJ schools.
The hundred million is going to the city of NEWARK schools- where Booker is the mayor. Needless to say, there are screams from those who want, desperately, to get their hands on that money- to pocket it, that is. Hopefully, Booker is up to the job of preventing that from happening.
And, Yellowdog- most of the cuts were directed at programs taxpayers should not be paying for, anyway. It is completely unfair to expect senior citizens living on fixed incomes to foot the bills for transportation that parents should be providing, football equipment that parents should be providing, musical instrument rentals that parents should be providing, and a host of other items that parents should providing.
It is called personal responsibility- a lost art for some.
Another thing is that teaching is not a lucrative job... I actually thought about teaching (have multiple engineering degrees), but why would I... give up my job and earn a measly $48k per year - compared to what I earn... if I can live on that comfortably, maybe I'd consider it, but with 3kids you can barely live comfortably, and it depends on your state (in California, you will live paycheck-2-paycheck)...my wife also considered it because she likes kids, but I convinced her that the private sector was more lucrative...
You see the main problem... we are not investing in teachers and the job is no longer highly sort after, or even respected... how would you attract the brightest or the best into these fields? in any event...the way we disrespect teachers doesn't bode well for new teachers entering this field. And you wonder why quality of teachers would actually decrease.
Res ipsa loquitur.
Well answered Skip and Tunde...and you're right AM, some things do speak for themselves.
Another thing that's changed for the schools is the greatly increased numbers of kids that are difficult and therefore expensive for one reason or another. On one end of the spectrum are parents who won't show up for parent teacher conferences but will sure pick up the phone to "give someone a piece of my mind" whenever poor little Jimmy acts up in class. At the end of the spectrum are disabilities ranging from Autism to severe and profound retardation. Once upon a time these folks were basically just warehoused in giant institutions where no one would be inconvenienced by them. Now they're almost entirely mainstreamed into the community and the world is a better place for it. Unfortunately the money that paid for those giant warehouses for the different never made the transition over to the public schools and other facilities that are now responsible for getting them able to live more like the average citizen.
Jollyoldsoul, I am very sorry for your troubles. You sound like you were very forceful in making sure your son got the education he deserved. I applaud you.
Mike-416
I find the single largest impediment to a childs education is their parents. Go spend a few days in a public school - watch the poor kids get dropped off at school by their sweat pants wearing parents so they can get their breakfast (which is probably one of two good meals they get - the second is the school lunch),
As a parent of 4 children that are finished with public school, your post is right on traget.
Parents.
Parents now depend on school to baby sit, feed them, give kids there meds, screen kids for Guns and gang affiliation, with all that there is not much time left for teaching. it use to piss me off to see kids lining up for free lunch at the same time wearing new Jordan shoes, new Ipods, new cell phone and the latest fashions, while my kids paid for their lunch, did not have the latest fashions, and my sons cell was stolen 3 times in 2 months.
they don't show up for parent teacher conferences, the blame the schools when there kids fail, the blame the school if there kids get shot, they blame the schools for everything that is wrong with there kids and if sports coaches don't treat there kids like the next rising sports star they find a school that will acomodate them no matter how bad the school is. the don't look at the classes there taking to make sure there on a college path, all they want to see is good grades, and they are not inolved in the local PTA!!!!!
Teen parents are the real problem. they don't know what it takes to raise children and perpare them for school. its not funding in most cases, its not teachers in most cases, its parents.
Example, on my sons sophmore football team, a parent tried to get a coach fired because he yelled at her son for a block in the back that brough a touchdown back, she told her son not to listion to the coach that next year he will play because that coach will be fired if she has anything to do with it.
well Mike that next year, the coach was still there, and he kid was in jail. seems that this kid was moomlighting as a dope dealer and was thrown out of school. story i heard was that this mother knew he son was dealing but allowed it because she needed money.
Funding, Unions, teachers are not the problem its
PARENTS!!!!!
Parents, its funny that over the last 20 year as teen prregancys have risen the our schools are failing more and more.
NJNB - And, Yellowdog- most of the cuts were directed at programs taxpayers should not be paying for....
I find it hard to believe that Gov. Christie slashed 60% of budgets to school districts and the only thing affected was the small items you mentioned. By the way how do you transport you child to school if you have to go to work at the same time yourself? Some parents need the option to send their child to school in the safety of a bus.
In Texas, if the GOP have their way nearly 1/3 of all teachers could lose their job. 1/3 that is nearly 100,000 teachers. I know your hypothesis is that the mandatory teacher's unions in unionized states are the reason for hemmoraghing state budgets. I don't agree with your assertion, but, how do you square that fact that right to work states like Texas are facing huge budget deficits as well?
Let me clue you in, the former Texas State Comptroller a Republican by the way - Carole Keeyton Strayhorn predicted 5 years ago that lowering property taxes would cause a 20+ billion shortfall. Politicians couldn't care less to listen, after all they had re-election campaigns to run. Five years later as she predicted the state has a 27 billion shortfall.
American - Others answered you but I would add that money is needed for education to attract and retain the best and brightest. School teachers should not be looked on as merely day care workers as some might do, they are first and foremost educators and professionals. They should be paid accordingly.
Also, I belive that some spending in school budgets have been squandered by the me first selfish types. My school district perhaps in an attemp to keep up with the Jones' (other North Dallas suburbs) just had to outdo themselves with unneeded sports facilities. For example people in my county approved the demolition and erection of a new state of the art "Friday night lights" type stadium and Olympic size natatorium four years ago. I have nothing against athletics but that money could have been better spent.
skip - not impressed with your mindset.. sorry to see that your schools have no type of corporate sponsers to donate computers (used or new). You do understand that computers makes life easier, right? Yes costs are always going up, labor is such an expense as are supplies. So what? I am sure my parents and school boards had the same type of expenses (except computers of course), but yet those graduating in the 50's and 60's were instrumental in developing the components that took us to the moon, created socio-economic programs to elevate our populace (at least for those that utilized it), and inspired our youth (I being one of them) to learn, to excell. That was a generation who provided us with the fundamentals to develope todays electronics, adventures in space and medical advances that prolong our lives and quality of life. I never knew what a class size of less than 30 was, I never knew what it was like to try to learn with others being disruptive in class and I especially never knew a teacher who was unwilling to discipline or give help to those asking.
Now you make piss poor excuses about more students, more computers and how more teachers could be had if only they were paid more. I have two sisters, a sister-in-law and two nieces in the teaching profession. They want to teach and they agree to the money being paid. and they are all raising their own families.
I see that you like to make excuses, so be it. I grew up on attitude, on what can be not what is. Yes you are reaping what you have sown, complacency and that $$$ is the answer to everything, rather sad that you have forgotten how to dream or set goals.
Yellowdog thanks for your reply - Can't agree that $$$ are needed to attract the best and brightest for that is not a measure of teaching ability.
Last fall the Des Moines register found that teachers having a masters degree (and paid appropriately) did little to increase the students scores. Our Iowa universities are graduating teachers every year and I am sure that they understand what their pay will be. So no, more teacher pay is not the answer.
You have striked a good point on daycare though. Parents have the responsibility of preparing their children for education and learning. The teacher for instructing the students not babysitting. The disruptive need to be disciplined or at the very least segregated from those wanting to learn. Harsh, perhaps but why jeopardize the class as a whole for 1 or 2 smart azzes. Hear in central Iowa a local news station promotes what they call the Golden apple which is given to outstanding teachers based on the students input. the award is not about $$$ or prestige but in the students belief that the teacher inspired them.
More respect for the teachers would be a start, but bribery is not. More parent involvement would also help as would zero tolerence for disruptive behavior without fear of reprisal. Want to reward a teacher with $$$, fine, but make it based on merit not tenure or type of degree.
Sorry, I can't agree that more $$$ is the solution. good luck with the athletic issues as you are right, money could have been spent better.
You're on your own.
The left views that statement as an expression of selfish individuals who have stuff and who don't give a darn about other folks who have less stuff, or no stuff at all. But that's not really it. That statement is actually more an expression of current reality, especially when it comes to entitlements like Social Security. But Senate Dems continue to keep their blinders on, as Durbin's "line in the sand" comment suggests.
Republicans have won the budget cutting argument. The debate now isn't whether to cut, it's where to cut and by how much. With the wind at their backs on this issue, rumor has it Republicans will propose reforms to Social Security next month when Paul Ryan leads his House Budget Committee in producing this year's budget resolution. Good, it's about time we got serious on this issue. Because one thing last week's NBC/WSJ poll really showed is how deeply the concept of the welfare state is embedded in the minds of many Americans. So the mountain Republicans need to climb is steep.
But reality is reality, no matter how high that mountain might be. Social Security – despite the absolutely delusional denials from the left – is in trouble both near term and far term. But the solutions are relatively simple and involve things like raising the retirement age, adjusting or temporarily freezing the annual cost of living increases, maybe even (heaven forbid) means testing benefits. In effect, we're talking about benefit cuts and relatively modest ones if we do it soon. Waiting until later would mean more severe cuts in the future, cuts that would qualify for the "draconian" epithet the left likes to toss about even now. So we can be sure Democrats will demagogue this issue to death, that's what they do. And Nancy probably can't wait to unleash her zingers.
But whatever Nancy and her buds may say, the fact is Uncle Sugar can't save us. He can't support your comfy retirement or mine at rpeviously planned levels because there just isn't enough money. In particular, when the notion of shared sacrifice finally permeates through the hard heads in Washington as well as the beneficiaries of the goodies out in the hinterland, the imminently retiring baby boomers should not be exempt from participating in this sacrifice. After all, we're the ones who helped create this mess and we're already screwing young people enough by leaving them with a large debt burden. To refuse to take a benefit cut and thereby ask the young to pony up a few dollars more to maintain our full Social Security checks would be unconscionable in the extreme.
So we're on our own. Not necessarily by choice, but by circumstance. And I'm ready to argue that's not a bad thing. To the contrary, it's a fundamentally American thing to confront difficult circumstances and plow forward anyway. Nothing wrong with sucking it up and doing what you need to do to get through to the other side. Republicans need to make the case that this sacrifice is worthwhile by linking future economic growth prospects to the need to begin getting our fiscal house in order now. The alternative is to continue believing in the fantasy that the entitlement state is just what the doctor ordered to soften the harsh realities of life and lead us all to the promised land. Which is the flawed mindset that helped get us into our current situation in the first place.
So we really are on our own. Most folks just don't know it yet.
Fortunately for the corporations that bought the current Congress, they'll never be on their own. The Corporate Socialist Republicans will always be there for them to make sure they never pay the price for the messes they make.
Very true Houston, the corporatist agenda is all about socializing risk while privatizing profit.
Interesting Narrative, Bill, but I picked the snippet above because you seem resigned that this is ACTUALLY the case. Have we ever asked WHY there isn't enough money to support the retirement of the people who have paid into Social Security?
The quick answer is this: We have DEPRESSED the Revenue the Government receives for so long, it was inevitable that we would reach this point. Why conviently 'forget' that the revenues are not what they should be and then say 'oh, well, we are on our own' without any investigation, fight, or anything?
It is pretty interesting that we have money to give Corporate tax breaks and money to fight wars costing $15 BILLION a month, but we don't have the money for AMERICANS in AMERICA that have been paying for their retirement.
By the way: I really don't want to be "on my own" when it comes to ensuring that the food I eat is safe, and that the medicines I might have to take are safe and effective, or that the airplanes that the planes I fly in can get from one city to another in one piece. Weak little ol' me depends on Big Bad Government for that sort of protection.
That's why I'm truly in awe of rugged individualists like Bill, Fairfax VA, who is an expert on bacteriology and agriculture who can ensure the safety of his own food, an expert in organic chemistry and pharmacology who knows what medicines are safe for him, and a mechanical engineer who can ensure all by his rugged individual self that the wings won't fall off the planes he flies. What a guy!
Bill in fairfax - I have a different perspective on SS than you, and I am not of an age to collect.
There is no doubt that politicians (L&R) have always looked upon the $$$ in the SS trust fund (since it was combined with the general fund in the late 60's) as a means of plunder to be had. The politicians have subverted SS's intent over the years with spending "add ons" simply because their was a ton of cash in it. That ton of cash has now become nothing more than a box of government IOU's and SS only saving grace is that revenues still exceed outgo.
Increase the revenue stream but those on SS or those soon to be should not be required to take cuts in benefits simply because of the fraud committed by the politicians (L & R) in the past. I would rather see government pension plans be converted to SS and 401k's and SS again be viewed as only a suppliment to retirement.. Perhaps I am being selfish, but I would like my future SS check to be more than just buying a 12 pak and munchies after the 1st of the month.
I do however like many of your other past points even if the current crop of FR libs choose to remain "clueless"
We are not broke we can still borrow money.........typical lib idiot
When Odumbo steps out of the White house and sees his shadow we will have 2 more years of unemployment.
Care to debate this americandude, or are your skills limited to name calling?
RON:
You are 100% correct on the voucher issue and this has been tried before. The GOP/TP wants to destroy the Middle Class and then ask them to pay for sending the GOP/TP kids to private schools. This just keeps getting more and more repugnant every day.
And one of the ways you do it, is weaken or destroy the middle class by keeping them ignorant. And what better way to do that, but to keep the teachers out of unions, large class sizes, poor support and ...hey you got a winner.
The future of this country is in our children, our most precious resource, if we shortchange them in their education and you deny them opportunities to be the best that they can be, it will only take a generation or less to accomplish that goal. I, for one, will not allow that to happen, I will fight for teachers and the children.
People have to make their voices heard in their respective communities, this is a battle for the very soul of our country.
Navy,
Where do the Obama girls go to school? Public or Private?
What kind of school did they attend in Chicago, before Barack became President? Public or Private?
Answer to both: Private
The hypocrisy of the left gets more and more repugnant every day.
WTF does that have to do with anything? Because Obama sends his kids to a private school - he cant do his job as president for the rest of the country? More reading - less Glen Beck.
Landoran, is it fair for the school district of DC to have to pick up the bill for extra security that it would take to have the children of a president as students?
The Obamas have done well, the ultimate picture of pulling oneself up by ones bootstraps, yet they get nothing but disrespect from Conservatives. As people who've done well they deserve the fruits of those labors, including private school if they can afford it--and they can. Real hypocrisy would be pretending that they didn't get where they are through traditional outstanding American support for education and seeking to kill it...as Conservatives are doing.
The only real hypocrisy at work here is the way Conservatives laud their "betters" for living like emperors while expecting Liberals who've achieved well in life to live like paupers.
No kidding Landoran. And look at the kids who just had the private school opportunity taken away from them when the DC voucher program was killed...by the Democrats.
Mike and John,
Why don't you two ass clowns go back, read US Navy's post then read mine.
Sit back for a second and use that one brain cell you two must share.
Then kick each other in the nuts so you don't breed more retarded liberals into this world.
Landoran. Use your head, they're children of the President--safety and security come into the picture. When the Obamas lived in Chicago, they could afford to send their children to private schools but they did not ask the tax payers to fund it. Some vouchers are appropriate; Wisconsin currently limits the number and there is a cap on wages earned to receive public money for private schools. Walker wants to eliminate the cap meaning tax payers will subsidize some rich kids for their education at the expense of public schools.
Landoran
It's not hypocritical - because the Obama's aren't asking PUBLIC dollars to pay for what they are willing and able to pay for themselves,...
Vouchers are just another tax break - spraying perfume on it doesn't change the fact that it stinks.
Landoran
It would be hypocritical if President Obama had ever denounced private schools. But he never has done any such thing. Wanting improvements in public schools, as Obama does, is not the same as condemning people who send their kids to private schools. Do you understand that, or are you so consumed with hatred for the president that your logic circuits have been totally burned out?
No retort? Just flames?
I will go degree for degree, certificate for certificate, license for license and IQ for IQ with you any... day... of the week.
Houston, no one begrudges the President sending his kids to private school. But what do you call it when a lot of kids, resigned to lousy schools in DC, have the opportunity to attend the same school the Obama children do..and then have the program taken away from them? Why would the Democrats deny those poor children an opportunity their own children have?
My wife sometimes sits and reads over my shoulder when Im posting from home. This weekend as I was going through some of last weeks blogs and she asked me a question I had to just smile at. She looked at me and said. It the liberal posters could not use the words Rich and Koch what would they have to post about. I laughed for about 15 mins.....in fact I now see those words like they were highlighted,
And if the right wing could not use words like "Soros" and "socialist, communists or Kenyan" they would have nothing to say. Wait, they don't.
Jess-3143150
Huh? When did the Democrats pass legislation banning poor children from going to private schools? I must have missed that.
And yes, I think people who attack Obama for sending his daughters to a private school DO begrudge him that. I've never seen meanness and pettiness as intense on the far right as it's been since Obama was elected president.
Jess, you are 100% right on. Michele Rhee was doing a great job in the Washington D.C schools. Pres. Obama's Sec. of Education Arnie Duncan praised her. The she went and fired 300-400 sub-standard teachers. The new mayor fired her.
jolly
my husband says the same thing about the Righties,...whatever would they do with out the words
ACORN and Tax Cuts?
PS. In a democracy where each individual has ONE vote,...why do Republicans defend the Corporatists like Koch to unduly influence elections? It seems a little odd, no?
I guess the rich have figured out how to manipulate the puppets that they master.
Mike,
Sorry, some of us have to work for a living and don't subscribe to taking money from others to subsidize our deserved, owed or entitled lifestyles.
Your academic pedigree doesn't outweigh an argument. I don't care if you have a Phd, 2+2 still equals 4. Just because you go to Harvard, doesn't mean your degree trumps the truth, reality or is correct.
Sounds like you rely on a piece of paper to support and defend your position, instead of being able to intelligently articulate it.
Wow, what a shock. A liberal says "I'm right, because I went to school here, so by default I'm smarter than you". "I can read books and regurgitate the information".
Congratulations, you get a liberal "A" for acting like a smug, pretentious, a'hole. It's the one class you liberals excel in.
That's like "I have a black belt in karate, so I can kick your ass". Unfortunately, that black belt says you punched and kicked the air, while performing a few Kata's to earn it. Doesn't say you can take a punch in the face or fight back.
It's funny, Richard Branson, Bill Gates, Ralph Lauren, Steve Jobs and Michael Dell never finished college, but they're all billionaires.
But if it makes you feel better or better than other people, which I know it does.
You hold on to that online degree of yours.
Oh look, Landoran still has nothing to counter, so he continues to attack.
Sorry dude, when you have to top your personal attack with another one you've lost.
Thanks for playing.
I paid every nickel of my education myself. Try again loser.
Only a republican can turn getting an education into a bad thing.
Nope - I dont rely on my degrees for anything - I do however rely on my brain. I already did articulate my point - you just failed to read my posts.
Spoken like a true uneducated republican. Regurgitate? LOL! Ever solve a third order differential equation? Do you even know what one is? How about a triple integration calc problem? Thats not regurgitation my friend - and the only reason you would say that is if you hadnt had clue.
Im fine with that. Ive been called a lot worse by better people than you.
Mike,
So knowing math makes you smarter than everyone else...lol.
You know nothing about me, I know nothing about you. I don't know if you know math from a hole in the floor.
I don't think education is a bad thing, I don't use my degree to boast how much smarter I am than other people, because I have one. My degree doesn't define me or makes me better than other people. I'm not insecure like you.
But since you're probably still a virgin or were until you were about 23 when some poor girl passed out at a party, I'm sure you're an angry little nerd of a boy.
I'm 100% sure you've been called worse, but how do you know they were better than me?
You and John from Iowa should bome friends, he sounds like a real jerk-off too.
Here's an article that I located by searching the website of the Wisconsin Chapter of Americans For Progress, which is an arm of the Koch Brothers political machine, and sponsored Governor Walker's bus trip around the state this weekend to drum up support for his proposed budget. This article posits that there is “growing anger” over what they call “free government pensions.”
http://www.refocuswisconsin.org/growing-anger-over-free-government-pensions--by-wpri-staff
Sigh. I won’t belabor this, except to say that agreements between public employers and their unions to contribute the employee’s share of pension funds is a negotiated item between teachers and school districts. I know this firsthand as I was present and teaching and a member of the bargaining committee when my school district negotiated this. The agreement came at the expense of salary increases, and these agreements made years ago have essentially institutionalized lower salaries in exchange for higher pension benefits.
Just to clarify the point, a teacher’s share of his/her pension costs is 5.8 percent of salary. The average teacher in Wisconsin makes $48,000, or roughly $5,000 below the national average. 5.8 percent of $48,000 is well below $5,000, meaning that it is actually cheaper for the school district to pay the 5.8 percent in retirement costs than to pay average salaries.
It’s always hard to propose take-aways from employees’ salaries. However, because workers generally don’t seem to make the connection between their benefits and the work they do -- having bought into the conservative argument that benefits are somehow “free” to them -- it is much easier to propose cuts to benefits. In this case, taking the amount of the pension contribution away from public employees’ salaries directly takes away compensation that they negotiated for a long time ago and depend upon now. In a very real sense, it is in the nature of a tax increase targeted only at public workers to fix a problem that they did NOT cause.
It is also an example of the following flawed thinking. In America, the idea behind capitalism is that you aspire to do better and to improve your situation. If you see someone who has more than you do, your goal is to do better and get that for yourself. In this case, however, conservatives have convinced you that rather than asking for more yourself, the proper thing to do is to take it away from public employees. The purpose of this is not clear, but maybe it has to do with the vague hope that some of it will trickle down to you through tax decreases. I can pretty much guarantee that it won’t. But “I don’t have a cookie, so you shouldn’t have a cookie, either” has become the rather childish mantra of conservatives, rather than “Gee, isn’t that cookie great; I wonder how I could get a cookie, too.” By buying into this lie, people have actually become their own worst enemies. And the race to the bottom is in full swing.
The upshot is this:
Don’t ever tell me how you can be fired at will if you work in the private sector. Get a union instead. Stand up for yourselves against the billionaires.
Don’t ever tell me that you don’t have health insurance, that you pay too much of the premium, or that you have to pay all of your retirement costs. Get a union instead. Stand up for yourselves against the health insurance companies and the billionaires.
These kinds of foolish, dogmatic statements do not demonstrate that the public sector doesn’t need unions; they demonstrate only how the private sector DOES.
The decline in union membership since its peak in the 1970s has been paralleled by decline in real wages over the same period. Jobs have flooded overseas because there are no unions to protect against it, and the government sure as heck doesn’t. Benefits have gone steadily down, not up. What is it about the correlation between union decline and all of these other declines that conservatives can’t see?
Or is it just that you don’t want to see it?
Great information, Anna Molly.
Larger businesses generally (I know because I received them yearly from two different employers) send employees an annual, personal report listing their wages and also listing the costs of the benefits they receive. The reports always indicates the value of those benefits and stress to employees those costs as part of their actual earnings.
AVERAGE WAGE AND BENEFITS (remember this is for about 9 months of work)
TEACHERS:
Milwaukee $86,297
Elmbrook $91,065
Germantown $83,818
Hartland Arrwhd $90,285 (highest teacher was $122,952-lowest was $64,942)
Men Falls $81,099
West Bend $82,153
Waukesha $92,902
Sussex $82,956
Mequon $95,297
Kettle Mor $87,676
Muskego $91,341
STAFF:
Arrowhead - Bus Mng - Kopecky - $169,525
Arrowhead - Principal - Wieczorek - $152,519
Grmtwn - Asst Princ - Dave Towers - $123,222
Elmbrk - Burliegh Elemetary - Principal Zahn- $142,315 (for a primary school!!)
Madison - Asst Principal - McGrath - $127,835
UNIVERSITY of WISCONSIN STAFF (2009) (salary alone):
Michael Knetter - Prof of Bus - $327,828
Carolyn Martin -Chancellor Mad- $437,000
Hector Deluca - Prof of Nutritional Science - $254,877 (really??)
(source:Madison.com -as the UW removed salaries from being posted online in 2007- why if they are so low?)
How about some other "public servant job" ??? What do they make?
Madison Garbage men (2009) (salary only):
· Garbageman, Mr. Nelson earned $159,258 in 2009, including $109,892 in overtime and other pay.
· Garbageman, Greg Tatman, who earned $125,598
· 7 Madison garbage men made over $100,000
· 30 Madison garbage men made over $70,000
MILWAUKEE CITY BUS DRIVERS (salary only):
136 Drivers made more than $70,000
54 Drivers made more than $80,000
18 Drivers made more than $90,000
8 Drivers made more than $100,000
Top Driver made $117,000
(Source WTMJ)
(The average private bus driver makes $9-13 an hour (about 20,000 yr) with no pension, or healthcare.)
jollyoldsoul1 Too bad your numbers aren't accurate. I checked them out on Polifacts:
http://politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/mar/04/rand-paul/us-sen-rand-paul-says-average-public-school-teache/
I was completely unaware that teachers and university administrators had the same job qualifications as bus drivers.
Talk about your false equivalencies. Let's AVERAGE all workers together and compare the results. What could possibly go wrong with that data output?
Genius, NOT!
jollyoldsoul1 Furthermore, in comparing public and private sector workers I found this:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/feb/23/eric-bolling/fox-business-news-eric-bolling-says-wisconsin-teac/
Salary of Jim Haney, head of Wisconsin Manufacturers and Commerce, the principal Wisconsin business UNION:
$341,000, which included $89,000 in pension contributions and $9,000 in other benefits.
http://host.madison.com/ct/business/biz_beat/article_8595d11a-45bd-11e0-82bf-001cc4c002e0.html
The average cost of the jobs that Jim Haney believes will be created by Walker's budget bill, by which he hopes to generate the taxes necessary to close the deficit:
$30,000 (apparently either WITH or WITHOUT benefits).
http://host.madison.com/ct/business/biz_beat/article_98606c30-4511-11e0-9f5e-001cc4c03286.html
WOW -- those sound like great jobs to me, and you can even help balance Wisconsin's budget deficit by paying taxes so your wealthy corporate paymasters don't have to.
So, instead of whining about public employees' pay, why don't you just line up for one of THOSE jobs?
Because, if you allow this to happen to public sector employees, that's how Scott Walker and his cronies plan to pay you back.
Now, say thank you, and kindly shut up.
Some things to remember in comparing salaries between public and private sector workers:
The average teacher has at least a B.A. degree, and often a Master's as well. The average private sector worker does not have a college degree.
Teachers do not draw social security in addition to their retirement pensions, even if they pay into S.S. from another job, unlike public workers who get social security as well as their corporate pension. I don't know if this applies to public workers in Wisconsin, I only know it aplies in Maine. Perhaps a sanitation worker from Wisconsin can enlighten us.
The average retired teacher in Maine lives on $19,000. Only 13% of Maine teachers teach for 25 years. Those retired teachers earn pensions of $26,000.
From AsMaineGoes:
Yes, really, and far more valuable than you'll ever know. He and his co-workers have developed countless patents and technologies that are turned into profits in the private sector. Look him up and get educated, for a change. Really.
http://www.biochem.wisc.edu/faculty/deluca/
DeLuca, just as one example, is far more valuable than a Wall Street broker, whose average BONUS in 2010 was $118,000, mostly made by REALLY stealing your money, or the head of a union of businesses, for heaven's sake.
And Biddy Martin, who is chancellor at UW-Madison, runs a world-class university with 40,000 students and thousands of faculty members and staff. Far larger than these "small businesses" that think they're so important and so entitled to be rich just because they exist.
Mike Knetter is dean of the School of Business, turning out all those bright BUSINESS minds that you consider so important. The School of Business here is a VERY big deal and its graduates represent a huge source of private sector endowment for the university.
It's rather interesting that the school districts you cite are, for the most part, the most wealthy Milwaukee suburbs. It's no doubt different in the boonies, as I know first hand from my experience teaching in the boonies. And it also goes to show the value that those RICH school districts place on their teachers.
Doesn't it?
By the way, West Bend happens to be where the now famous, or infamous, Wisconsin State Senator, Glenn Grothman, lives.
Why can't Glenn Grothman do anything about those high teacher salaries in his own district? Why doesn't he just smack them down in negotiations if he knows what's best for everyone, as he espouses to do.
I'll tell you why? Rich districts don't mind paying their teachers. They know the value of that. They just like to complain about it.
jollyoldsoul, meet Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris. Time to tap out on this one.
Romney 3.0?
So many retreads so little time.
Who's next? John McCain?
Heck, George H.W. Bush only served one term, maybe he should run again . . . anything to avoid talking about the corporate people's stand off with the human people in Wisconsin.
Yeah, because no politician on the left tries to make themselves more appealing to different segments of society by acting, dressing, voting, speaking or attending functions they'd otherwise never be caught dead in?
Are you liberals just plain stupid or do you really think you're so much better than everyone else, you can say one thing, but then do the exact opposite and then call other out people on the very same thing you just did?
I already know the answer.
It's both.
I love it when people of displayed lower to mediocre intelligence call someone else stupid.
Dear Landoran:
Apparently you woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning spoiling for a fight. Since my post did not say any of the things in your "rebuttal", I'll just assume you are trying to start a flame war without matches.
This "lefty liberal" isn't in the mood to play today . . . you have a blessed day in your alternate reality where corporations tell you what to think and you believe that you came up with it yourself.
I saw that John McCain was on the ABC Sunday show again this week. What makes the media think anyone cares what he has to say? From what BIll Daly said on MTP I get that setting up a No Fly zone over Libya involves much more than just saying "don't fly over Libya." McCain has a big mouth.
Amy B. Secretary Gates stressed to Congress not long ago that in order to implement a No Fly Zone, the United States must first attack Libya by bombing and destroyings its military defense systems. But McCain keeps spouting off which makes me think he's been out of the military too long to even understand what modern military actions involve.
NASH:
Touche',
Amy: McCain's time came and went, he is irrelevant now and he knows it.
Amy B. Portland, ME
I was shocked that even crazy Michele Bachmann said that it may be unwise to get militarily engaged in Libya and that military experts should be heeded. McCain's now to the right of even her, apparently. If there was a Flip-Flop competition in the Olympics, either McCain or Romney would get the Gold.
Nashville Fan - anything to avoid talking about the corporate people's stand off with the human people...
Exactly, how many threads will FR have about Romney double speak, Huckabee flubs, Palin tweets? The potential GOP candidates are still too scared to signal that they are running but the MSM fawns over every speech they give.
Meanwhile, the situation in GOP dominated states is reaching an overload. Bleak cuts and job layoffs are not only affecting Wisconsin and the rust belt. It is a national story. A story no one wants to talk about.
Texas has a 27 billion dollar shortfall projection over the next two years, yet the governor refuses to raise taxes, he would rather cut funding to the school districts that could cause the job loss of over 100,000 teachers. To help offset budget issues he would cut more than 10,000 state employees and swap their health care with Health savings accounts. All the job losses will cause the unemployment cycle to continue to churn as those newly unemployed will create more burden on the system.
While the state bleeds for lack of revenue and legislatures balk at balanced solutions they are busy with idealogically proposals. The GOP onslaught on the working class continues.
Some of the worst...
The state legislature pushed through a mandatory sonagram and waiting period before ALL pregnancies can be done. Early stage pregnancies will require invasive procedures to ensure the sonagram. Due to the complexities many out patient facilities will not have the required equipment or certification to do this and will have to close; creating a more expensive procedure for everyone.
A state id requirement for voting is being propossed that will diminish voter turnout and add a cost to the state to train election workers and issue the new id.
Arizona type immigration legislation is sailing through both houses and lobbyists are pushing for police departments already dwindled by reduced city budgets to perform jobs slated for federal ICE agents.
I'm sure others could talk about other problems in their own states, but I really need to know what Rommney tweeted about.
Yellowdog:
Thank you for a most informative and timely post. It is getting kind of scary to watch how the corporate people manipulate us into doing their bidding, with most folks never even noticing and blaming the very entitities that are trying to help them instead of the corporations that are actually running everything.
George Orwell must be turning over in his grave.
Here’s another link that I found through the Americans for Progress website that pretty much lays out the false argument that Governor Walker is currently repeating about the “sweetheart deal” between WEAC-related health insurance company and local school districts.
http://www.refocuswisconsin.org/saving-money-and-teachersr-jobs-in-one-simple-stroke-by-scott-niederjohn
While acknowledging that teacher health insurance coverage is collectively bargained, the authors still insist that school districts are somehow trapped in the contracts they negotiated merely BECAUSE they have to bargain over them.
If there’s any monopoly here – and I might be inclined to argue that 64 percent is NOT a monopoly -- it’s BECAUSE school districts have agreed to it. School districts are NOT REQUIRED to agree on this. In Wisconsin, public sector employees cannot strike as a result of laws implemented in the 1970s to provide for binding arbitration of labor disputes. School district employees’ contracts are not perpetual, but rather MUST BE RENEGOTIATED every few years. If school districts wanted to propose other health insurance plans during negotiations, they certainly could, and they could then make their case to an arbitrator. Nothing blocks them from making this move RIGHT NOW. Thus, the whining by conservatives that school districts are trapped has to be seen as essentially frivolous. It amounts to nothing more than a frontal assault on one particular insurance company because it is connected with a public worker union and it is NOT controlled by Governor Walker’s private sector insurance company cronies. I’m sure that the various other insurance providers who write health insurance in Wisconsin are licking their chops at the prospect of gaining hundreds of thousands of potential new customers. If anyone thinks that this has nothing to do with Walker’s current thinking, then get your head out of the sand.
Note also, as set forth in Table 2 in the article, public school spending on teacher benefits per $1,000 of personal income, although #4, ranks behind West Virginia and Alaska. It’s also true that Wisconsin teachers make on average $5,000 LESS than the national average. So the benefits probably pretty much just even this out.
The Tea Party stayed away from social issues during the last election, and look what happened. When they were actually tasked with addressing them, they turned out to have some really odd far field ideology that they are hell bent on implementing.
Moral of the story is, don't trust a politician who won't give a clear position on social issues. It means that their standing will likely keep them from getting elected.
Its because libertarians dont have stances on social issues. They fundamentally believe in the removal of most (if not all) government.
"Its because libertarians dont have stances on social issues. They fundamentally believe in the removal of most (if not all) government."
Unless it's an issue with a woman's body, then the Tea Party thinks the government ought to step in and decide whether she should carry that Down Syndrome embryo to term, or whether she was "forcibley" raped or just tricked into having unprotected sex, etc. Oh, yes, the Tea Party makes an exception in it's anti-government stance to involve itself in women's medical decisions.
"Its because libertarians dont have stances on social issues. They fundamentally believe in the removal of most (if not all) government"
That's great in theory, but it doesn't work when the rubber meets the road. The overwhelming majority of Americans don't believe in minarchism or even know what it means. They have concerns over social issues and they expect their politicians to handle them.
And everybody has a stance. For instance as was pointed out by Amy, reproductive rights are a prime example. and so are gay rights. A true Libertarian among the freshmen would have denounced the government regulation of either as a limitation on civil liberties. And they would have been vehement on the matter. Same thing for funding of the war on drugs.
But that's not happening.
You've heard of rino's?
The Tea Party are mostly lino's
Libertarian
In
Name
Only
If they were really libertarians, then they would be using the budget cuts to push that agenda really hard tight now.
In a nutshell you're right.
Libertarian
In
Name
Only
You nailed it.
Romney and Newt.... hum.... let me think about these two for president.... NOT A CHANCE! Move on to square, retire and enjoy the $$$$$ you took from us middle to low class citizens! As the saying goes, you two are as worthless as the tits on a Bore Hog, PERIOD!!
Really a bore hog! Hmmmmm You actually called your self a low class citizen. You are another Git er Done kinda guy in the making.
Last week, I said that Huckabee is either a fool or a panderer. Add "liar" to his resume'. When you willfully repeat proven falsehoods, you're a liar! Which Commandment was that again, REV. Huckabee!??
I guess it is more important to Huckabee to sell books than to speak the truth.
Mitt certainly destroyed enough jobs in career history as a corporate raider to understand how jobs are lost...
When you chase the Tea Party ideal, you are probably better off a pizza maker than an accomplished and experienced politician.
Much easier to see Romney as a conservative that to see Obama as a moderate. Hell, it's not even close!
We're not broke. Thank goodness the media is fact-checking Boehner. There are two reasons we have a huge national debt: the Bush tax cuts and the two Bush wars. The tax cuts were unsustainable, took us from budget surplus to massive debt in a little over a year and not one republican suggested we "pay" for the wars.
We have a debt problem but cutting $61 billion will not solve the problem, especially if we cut spending on programs for the least among us, on education, etc. That's not the road to recovery, it will cost jobs, slow economic growth and in the end that $61 billion saved this year will cost us billions in the future. If the debt was such a huge "we're broke" problem, Speaker Boehner should explain why his party insisted on adding $140 billion to it in the form of a 2-year extension of tax cuts for 2% of the people. Cutting $61 billion on the backs of the middle class doesn't make up for the $70 billion a year that the GOP insisted on giving the richest 2%.
Mitt Romney 3.0. Does Romney even know what he believes any more? It will be difficult for Romney or any republican to win the general election as long as candidates continue embracing the extremes right of their party--birthers, Birchers and secessionists.
Iowa's Cattle Call. Unfortunately, too many Iowa republicans are birthers and Birchers but not so much secessionists. The GOP here is far right, evangelical, tea party influenced. Huckabee won in 2008 but at that time, he actually sounded reasonable and moderate--he's lost that by having to preach the FOX lies.
The latest poll shows 51% of republicans believe President Obama is not a citizen, not born in the U.S. That tells me one of two things--either the GOPTP with the help of FOX cable has successfully dumb-downed its base to the point where they believe anything told them; or republicans are gullible, naive and not too bright. Take your pick.
Governor Walker continues his showdown at the OK Corral. What is it about the concept of "compromise" that makes the republicans dig in their heels? Layoffs are not necessary in Wisconsin, all Walker has to do is remove the elimination of collective bargaining from his legislation. Public workers have agreed to the pay and benefit concessions. It seems Walker prefers to "win" instead of lead as Governor.
Compromise is meeting in the middle, it is how the USA became the USA, how our Constitution was written, how Government worked for everyone until the late 1990's. Now, Speaker Boehner will not even use the word "compromise" but prefers "common ground." No wonder this country is in trouble.
Jody---great post. The frustrating thing to me about the conservatives is how they repeat lies until people believe them. The source of the deficit is just one example.
I think what Mitt Romney believes is that he wants to be President and that his turn has come.
Comedy at its best. Keep them coming!
Romney is the best candidate for the GOP, but as a Mormon would be considered a cult member by the radical nut job base of the Republican Party.
Bachmann certainly looked Presidential yesterday on Meet the Press. That is if the Neo Nazis are looking for a candidate. They said she has had 23 foster children, it would be interesting to learn what these foster children had to say about the Bachmann KLAN. Given their choice the orphanage probably looked pretty damn good.
no doubt she needed labor to work the family 'farm':
http://www.kmph.com/Global/story.asp?S=13499445
as do the other 'small government' proponents identified in this Fox News' affiliates article. Good times! Good, HYPOCRITICAL Times!
Pirate, I think people will make an issue of his religion. But the worst example that I have seen. Was by Lawrence O'Donnell. The far-left and far-right will not decide the next election the middle will. The middle isn't impressed with hate speech.
Slow down Mitt, you have too many updates and service packs out there to download and install.
We may have to wait for Mitt 7 for a stable operating platform.
Something tells me, it will never survive Beta testing,... (an Alpha will probably be introduced first).
Romney is the king of flip floppers. He was for abortion and health care until he was against it - like every republican - he will say anything at all to get elected. Nobody has a clue what he really thinks. As for BONER being fact checked why bother? This inbred fool couldn't tell the truth if his kid's lives depended on it. The entire republican party is a disgrace and would be a laughing stock if it didn't pose such a great danger to freedom-loving Americans.
Mitt Romney is a chameleon, changing his appearance to fit the agenda. He doesn't, in my opinion, have what it takes to sustain and maintain one position on one subject. Basic conservative values aside, the attack on women's reproductive rights needs to be curtailed. This is a very private and personal issue and to have a man try to dictate and regulate what we can and can't do is an insult. Does he think we are all incapable of making such a life-altering decision without his help? That's arrogance. There's so much wrong in our government now and this constant back and forth on issues not related to the ecomony and jobs, which was the cornerstone of the November Republican election campaigns, is more than just troubling to me and so many others. I would love to see a candidate actually come out and say, "I don't have the answers and want to work with the brightest and the best who may actually have ideas that would work".
I live in Utah. I was Mormon for many years. I'm telling you, the last thing you want is a Mormon in good standing leading the country. You might as well change the capitol building to lds Church Headquarters. Now if he can stand up and say he isn't a Mormon in good standing, he'll be fine but he won't because, as with all Mormons, it's all about the outside. They have no substance except what the church leaders want them to have. If you like the politics of Utah, you will LOVE having Romney the leader. He is truly a chameleon.
'The last thing you want is a Mormon in good standing leading the country.' Huh? Why wouldn't you want someone who has:
1. Integrity;
2. Is faithful to his spouse;
3. Upholds the constitution;
4. Does not divide the country;
5. Has experience in getting growing jobs and growing the economy;
???
Have you been easily offended?
What if the Mormon in question is only 20% of those things, like maybe Glenn Beck?
What I'm saying here is that for me the Mormon thing is a nonissue...but there are plenty of other reasons to not want Mitten as President.
(“I know how jobs are created and how jobs are lost”) True, emphasis on jobs lost. Romney made his money through the Baine investment group by buying up business, forcing older workers into early retirement, outsourcing whatever possible, selling off assets and they when the business's appeared to be making huge profits, they would sell them. I know I lost a job to this group in 1990. He is a heartless greedy bastard who is only interested in sticking money in his pocket while sticking it to the rest of us.
Obama along with the rest of the stand up soap box politicians are all selling you their snake oil. Their old pick up lines keep working with the brain dead blind eye citizens that will go home with anybody after a few drinks when the bars close.
What's the difference with the 'authenticity' of Romney as compared to the 'authenticity' of what we have received in Obama... another liberal media double speak... of course expected no less f/ MSNBC
So you are saying that you agree Mitt Romney is a liar and you are ok with that because you think President Obama is a liar. Do you teach your kids to lie for the same reasons? Of course you do - that's how more worthless republicans get spawned.
Is it just me, or was watcing Bachmann on MTP like reading JoannaSmith on FirstRead? "Yabber Yabber Yabber-same old-same-old-same-old....."
I would bet that JS1 has that same zoned out l@@k in her eyes...
DOB, I did the same thing with Bachmann as I do with JS1 and others (who for now shall be nameless) Ignore,They are not worth my time.
Bachmann is nothing but a screech owl.......with apologies to the owl.
Misconceptions About Union Membership, Dues Collection and Health Insurance perpetrated by the media and Opinion pieces
What I have been finding is that many of the people I debate are using OPINION pieces as FACT during the Debate. For the life of me, I could not figure out why people were so adamant that Union were ‘extracting’ people’s money until I saw this OPINION piece by George Will:
Source: George Will Opinion piece (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/21/AR2011022103190.html)
First of all, let's get something straight - when a person gets paid, the money they get from their employer is called a WAGE. Now George is being disingenuous when he says that the governments "extract government employees' salaries from taxpayers". It is NOT like that at all. When the union personnel get paid, they are paid a WAGE. That wage is NOT 'Government Funding'; It is not 'taxpayer dollars'; it is not 'the government teat'; it is a WAGE. Someone worked to EARN that money.
Now Union dues are deducted from this WAGE and forwarded on to the Union. George contends that "These unions use dues extracted from members to elect their members' employers". Now is that REALLY the case? If what George Will is say in true, we would ALWAYS have Democratic Governors, would we not? Either that, or the Unions SUCK at getting their so-called ‘employers’ elected.
George Will is NOT being truthful here.
What is really happening is that these union dues are collected from the WAGES of the employees. The Employees can do whatever they want to with their WAGES, and if it means paying union dues, then that is what is done. How is paying what you owe considered 'extracting'?? If you make a wage and are paid, and you decide to blow it on gambling, is the employer 'funding' your gambling habit because you are using your WAGES to gamble?
That argument doesn't pass the giggle test. Not even a little bit.
But it gets better. Governor Walker is SO CONCERNED about the money that is being paid out as a wage to the workers. Here is a snippet from what the Governor believes:
Source: George Will Opinion piece (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/21/AR2011022103190.html)
I love the faux concern for the person's money that is in the Union. The real issue - the one that the Gov. hates - is the collection of the dues in the first place. And now he is 'suggesting' that the money could be used for 'other things'. This is where I draw the line. If a person, who has worked for their WAGES gets paid that wage, don't you think that the person MAKING the wage should determine what he DOES with that wage? If the member wants to be a part of the union, and the cost is a membership fee, what right - or business is it - of the Governor to determine what the member does with his own money that he worked for??
I looked for and found three Collective bargaining Agreements that are being used in WI. They are in a PDF format, and you can find the following agreements:
SEIU Healthcare District 1199 Wisconsin
(http://oser.state.wi.us/docview.asp?docid=6998)
AFSCME WI STATE EMPLOYEES AFL-CIO
(http://www.wseu-24.org/Contracts%20and%20Constitutions/2007-2009%20wseu%20contract.pdf)
The Madison Teachers Incorporated (http://www.madisonteachers.org/teacherunit/Teacher%20CBA%2009-11.pdf)
So, let's take a look at some of the misconceptions that are being put forth:
Union Dues Collection
I know that collecting dues is a sore spot with many. However, the dues collection is IN THE CONTRACT and the disposition of the dues are clearly spelled out:
Source: Madison Teachers, Inc Collective Bargaining Contract section 2a.
Now here is the kicker - there are provisions for those teachers who are NOT a part of the union, but still want to be a part of the 'bargaining unit' that the Union uses to negotiate. Here is the language in the contract:
Source: Madison Teachers, Inc Collective bargaining Contract Section 3a.
This tells me that a person does NOT have to join the Teachers Union to be in the Bargaining unit. If a person is not a part of the bargaining unit, they are required to pay their FAIR SHARE of the cost of the collective bargaining process. The person can still enjoy the benefits of Collective Bargaining (in this case) and NOT be a part of the Union.
And it is legal, and explained in the MTI Collective bargaining Agreement.
What about Dues collection in other Collective Bargaining Agreements? Does the Employer (State) have the obligation to collect Union dues?
The answer is YES.
SEIU Collective Bargaining Contract Section 2.2.1.A
AFCME Collective bargaining Contract Section 2.2.1
After reading these contracts, the Governor may not LIKE having to forward the dues to the Union(s), but he has no choice – unless he plans on NOT honouring the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
I would LOVE to see the State of Wisconsin’s Attorney General argue to the court that they DON’T have to collect Union dues even though it is in the contract.
Joining the Union is Mandatory
The other misconception is that union membership is MANDATORY. In all of the Wisconsin agreements above, you can see that – in the Collective Agreement Contract – NOT Mandatory to be a member of a Union, debunking in this case for WI that train of thought.
Now what IS true is that many will pay the money to BE a part of the bargaining unit - even if they are NOT union members - so that they can enjoy the benefits of the Collective Bargaining (at least the MTI Contract spells this out). I believe that was written into the contract so that there would not be people who were NOT union who were enjoying the fruits of the bargaining of the Union officials WITHOUT having to pay for it.
PAC Contributions
Out of the three contracts that I looked at, only ONE has a provision where Dues can be deducted for a PAC:
SEIU Collective Bargaining Contract Section 20.2.1
Note the operative word - VOLUNTARY. Also the PAC contribution has to be authorized in writing (as highlighted above). The MTI and the AFCME contracts do NOT have this provision, so to make a sweeping conclusion that ALL unions make their members join or contribute to a PAC is false.
Health Insurance Contribution
As with all Employers, there is a contribution that is given to the Employee towards their Health Insurance. As with most insurance plans, there is a employee contribution and an Employer contribution. As expected, the contributin by the Employer and Employee are varied, by contract:
SEIU Collective Bargaining Contract Section 6.1.1.C
AFCME Collective bargaining Contract Section 13.1.4
Source: Madison Teachers, Inc Collective bargaining Contract Section B1 subsections 3, 4, 5.
As you can see, some agreements have better arrangements than others. The point here is this - not all Collective bargaining Agreements are the same, and the benefits offered the Union mebers is different as well. While I can understand where the State may want to control some of the spending by reducing the State's contribution to Health Insurance, to say that the State is 'subsidising' Union worker's health care is not entirely correct.
This is a point where some concessions could be made by the union to the State, and the cost could be shifted to the Employee.
One final note - it seems that just like Private Coroprations, the Employee has the option of accepting the Health insurance - or not. Most take the Health insurance and pay the Employee contributiuon because it is a great deal.
The REAL issue - and it is one that no one wants to deal with - is that health insurance costs are still rising. Now, before someone blames 'Obamacare' for these increases, these agreements were drafted in 2008.
You can draw your own conclusions. The bottom line is that ALL of these 'conterntion points' are NEGOTIABLE. So why doesn't the Governor want to negotiate, as he is duty bound to do so?
So, let’s recap the MYTHs that are being propagated:
Myth #1: Governments, not disciplined by the need to make a profit, extract government employees' salaries from taxpayers.
The truth: The taxpayer money is used to fund the State budget, and that money, once it is paid out to an employee, becomes a WAGE, and the employee can do whatever he wants to with his wages, and if that includes paying union dues, then so be it.
Myth #2: Joining a Union is MANDATORY to keep your job.
The truth: It is NOT mandatory to join a union. You have to VOLUNTARILY join and VOLUNTARILY provide written permission for Union dues to be deducted from your pay.
Myth #3: All Unions have PACs that they force their members to contribute to.
The Truth: There is only ONE contract that I found - the SEIU Contract - that allows for VOLUNTARY contributions to the Union's PAC, and these have to be authorized in writing by the member. This effectively debunks the notion that Unions are 'out of control' by using Union Dues to fund PACs that force their members to contribute to a candidate that they do not like.
Myth #4: The Unions are forcing the States to pay all of their Health Insurance.
The Truth: It depends on the contract(s). Some contracts contribute more than others. Some contract with PPOs or HMOs to get as much converage as they can. All of the plans I looked at have an Employer contribution.
There may be some grumbling about how much the Employer pays toward the Employee's health care, but a SMART Governor or negotiator will go after that cost when negotiating with the Union (or vice versa).
Myth #5: You have to be in a Union to benefit from the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
The Truth: Not always the case. In the case of the MTI Collective Bargaining Contract, you do NOT have to join the Union to benefit from the agreement(s) that the Union has negotiated. However, if you are part of the unit that is bargaining, then you are obligated to pitch in your fair share of the cost of bargaining.
My Conclusion(s) and Takeaway from this exercise
Although I have done my best to discredit the 'talking points' with some real facts (that you can look up yourself and verify), there will be those that will CONTINUE to spew forth these obfuscations to further their political agenda.
I did find some pretty interesting things in therse agreements. There are provisions for Hazard pay, and in one contract, there was a provision - and compensation - of a person was taken hostage.
Really. I am NOT making this up.
I took the time to do this to provide a counter-argument that you can verify for yourself. I am sure that if I am wrong, SOMEONE will point it out. Finally, since the epicenter of this Collective bargaining issue is in WI, I looked at WI Collective Bargaining contracts. The Collective Bargaining contracts in states OTHER than WI are going to be different.
Just know that ALL of these agreements have been AGREED TO by the representatives of the State of WI, so if you have issue with how some of these agreements have been negotiated or how much is being paid out, take that up with the Governors of your state.
Pietro:
Absolutely outstanding post you have just shot down about 95% of the lies by the GOP/TP on this issue. Kudos sorry I can only vote once this is a very well written and accurate post.
Terrific post, Pietro.
Private employers deduct and send employee's portion of health insurance premiums to the insurance company, they deduct United Way contributions, and a host of other items that an employee chooses. There is no difference in collecting union fees and forwarding to the union than to collect United Way contributions which are sent to the United Way. What the GOPTP sells can easily be debunked by any employee if they bothered to think about it.
Wow Pietro, great research piece!
AVERAGE WAGE AND BENEFITS (remember this is for about 9 months of work)
TEACHERS:
Milwaukee $86,297
Elmbrook $91,065
Germantown $83,818
Hartland Arrwhd $90,285 (highest teacher was $122,952-lowest was $64,942)
Men Falls $81,099
West Bend $82,153
Waukesha $92,902
Sussex $82,956
Mequon $95,297
Kettle Mor $87,676
Muskego $91,341
STAFF:
Arrowhead - Bus Mng - Kopecky - $169,525
Arrowhead - Principal - Wieczorek - $152,519
Grmtwn - Asst Princ - Dave Towers - $123,222
Elmbrk - Burliegh Elemetary - Principal Zahn- $142,315 (for a primary school!!)
Madison - Asst Principal - McGrath - $127,835
UNIVERSITY of WISCONSIN STAFF (2009) (salary alone):
Michael Knetter - Prof of Bus - $327,828
Carolyn Martin -Chancellor Mad- $437,000
Hector Deluca - Prof of Nutritional Science - $254,877 (really??)
(source:Madison.com -as the UW removed salaries from being posted online in 2007- why if they are so low?)
How about some other "public servant job" ??? What do they make?
Madison Garbage men (2009) (salary only):
· Garbageman, Mr. Nelson earned $159,258 in 2009, including $109,892 in overtime and other pay.
· Garbageman, Greg Tatman, who earned $125,598
· 7 Madison garbage men made over $100,000
· 30 Madison garbage men made over $70,000
MILWAUKEE CITY BUS DRIVERS (salary only):
136 Drivers made more than $70,000
54 Drivers made more than $80,000
18 Drivers made more than $90,000
8 Drivers made more than $100,000
Top Driver made $117,000
(Source WTMJ)
(The average private bus driver makes $9-13 an hour (about 20,000 yr) with no pension, or healthcare.)
Myth #2: Joining a Union is MANDATORY to keep your job.
The truth: It is NOT mandatory to join a union. You have to VOLUNTARILY join and VOLUNTARILY provide written permission for Union dues to be deducted from your pay.
Pietro - Thanks for the information. I couldn't comment on how Wisconsin union dues were collected. Living in a right to work state, I choose to and I do belong to a union. However, I pay dues only for general purpose organizing funds, I declined additional dues for political funds. In my GOP dominated state I would rather contribute to who I want politically on my own.
It is good to know that in states like Wisconsin the individual still has the choice to decline membership and not pay dues for political purposes if that is their choice. As with anything it is all about choice.
Well he is correct they cant force you to join the union, however in a closed shop they do take the Unions dues right out of your check....... no if's and's or but's
Why if I was Obama ?
Would I Send My Children to the Same Public Schools ?
The Republicans Spent 30 Years Dismantling and Underfunding !
Oh look, jollyoldsoul wasn't happy with being thoroughly debunked farther up the page, he decided to see if he could take his ball to another playground. I know it's a painful memory for you, but your answers are all just below post 6.2. It's like a reference book on why you're wrong.
Jolly Old Soul. That sounds like a livable wage and your figures include healthcare and pension bennies the teachers don't actually get in cash form.
Are these numbers supposed to be outrageous or piss people off???
These teachers are college graduates with teaching certificates you know.
If I didnt know better, I would think the guys about to try and sell me a used car... The same used car...
4 times!