Say Bev., what's your position on the lack of civility on the left in Wisconsin? How'd you like the Wisconsin Dem tell the Wisconsin Republican "you're dead" after the vote the other day?

Absolutely shameful, right?

More specifically, Last Friday.... after the Assembly voted on the Budget Repair Bill, Wis. Assemblyman Hintz , Democrat, turned to a female colleague, Rep. Michelle Litjens and said: "You are F***king dead!" He has subsequently has admitted making the threat.

And he subsequently apologized for it. Unlike Senator Grothman, who when confronted on Lawrence O'Donnell's show last night with four of the protesters he had previously labeled as homeless people and "slobs," including one nurse, flat out refused to apologize.

I hope you saw my reply to you on the last thread. Glenn has nothing to fear from protesters beyond the fear in his own mind. He has called them slobs, "a different breed" (animals?), and "not normal" because they sit on the floor cross-legged. He has called them stupid and "smelly," and he says they don't know what's in their own best interests. Which he apparently does, when I happen to know he's never walked an INCH in their shoes. He also believes they're government freeloaders, as you do, apparently.

Is it any wonder that that the protesters don't like him, either?

By the way, it only happened because Governor Walker locked Glenn out of the Capitol, too. I guess Governor Walker doesn't consider Glenn to be "one of us," either.

It's a pretty sad day when representatives of the people can't stand up for themselves against loud and "smelly" dissent. Those protesters are not the abnormal ones. You should read a little more about Glenn Grothman, especially what he says about women. Misanthrope and misogynist just about sums him up, and I know him personally, as I assume you do not.

Loud and smelly dissent may not make those people "one of us," as Governor Walker told David Koch. But it does make them American.

And the fact that you don't like that and are afraid of dissent says a LOT about you.

Now why would I concern myself with that guy? I live in California = we totally have our public employee unions under control. :)

But let's get down too it and play a little Olbermann: whose worse: Grothman or the dude looked at the Republican and said "you are F'ing dead!?"

No better yet Anna M. which one committed an actual crime?

And come on now we are all afraid of smelly dissents - just depends on the subject.

Really, Spanky?! You should talk to JoAnna, who said the other day that those smelly unions WERE the cause of California's deficit problem, as opposed to Texas, which has no unions but also has a mighty big deficit, and is ... well, just ... well ... different. You know? Different.

You righties should really try to get your stories straight. I'd ask her, but ... no. Not any more.

I don't think either one of them committed any actual crime. Republicans like you maintain that they shouldn't be held responsible for their own inciting words. The Supreme Court just confirmed it. So don't be a hypocrite. At least this once.

Either way, that's up to a district attorney, who has full prosecutorial discretion to decide whether to charge the guy. He shouldn't have said it, in my opinion, but whether he's "punished" for it is not up to either one of us.

I'm not afraid of smelly dissent. I told you that yesterday. I'm just tired of talking to you. By all means, go back to "pounding" unions, just take your rock and go play somewhere else.

They turned the stone and looked beneath it; peace on earth was all it said.

Anna,

About that other post....

Governor Walker is talking about taking more than $3,000 out of the salary of a person who only makes $40,000 now, leaving that person with a lot less disposable income

Teachers pay over a $1,000.00 a year in dues. They can afford to pay the unions, but can't afford to contribute to their pensions?

Walker wants them to have right to do what ever they want with the $1,000.00. They too stupid to wrtie their own checks, too stupid to know how best to spend their $1,000.00? And don't give me the convenience crap - it's all about the union control over the money.

$40,000.00? Wrong again, it's $51,000.00, or $61,000.00 annualized plus priveged benefits, no stress over work performance, and incredible vacation.

When that money falls out of the economy, as you apparently hope it will do, not only will you be causing a lot of pain for people who didn't create this mess and who already make a lot less than those who did, you will also SELL a lot less, and make LESS MONEY, and FEWER TAXES will be collected, and DEFICITS will persist

Yet Walker is trying to avoid the lay-offs you speak of. Seems the unions don't care about jobs - just benes and 'collective bargaining."

And "unions," by the way, don't get anything, and this is not a "racket"

Moronic statement.

AFSCME President makes $629,291.00 - Treasurer makes $359,031.00.

NEA President makes $417,858.00 - A lowly regional director makes $314,790.00.

AFT President makes $368,985.00 - His assistany makes $219,493.00.

(BTW - You are not in no joe's class, especially when you are confused about facts like above. NAWO as you guys like to say.)

.

Oh goodness Anna M., you really are not as much fun when you are wound so damn tight. Come on, of course California public unions are KILLING us. Of course Brown won't do anything about it. And of course Cali will be BK inside of 15 months. Inevitable.

And I bet you can look up the definition of assualt. In fact I'm guessing there is a federal statute for domestic terrorism that will apply. Funny it came from the mouth of a dem., right?

And really, why would I go somewhere else? We got us Feisty, Bev. DBO, Ron, and of course you. Hey, at least you try, and can put forth coherent arguments. Those folk, not so much. But good news- they know it and are certainly taking a less proactive role.

Face it my dear - NOJO has won. Long live NOJO!

There is absolutely NO excuse for anyone, on either side of the aisle saying anything that sounds remotely threatening! I DON'T CARE IF HE IS YOUR PARTY OR MY PARTY, IF THAT IS THE JUDGMENT HE USES HE SHOULD NOT BE IN OFFICE. I have said this before, but apparently it has to be repeated. Here is a hint: if you are using "but YOUR guy" said as an excuse for poor behavior from your own party. YOU ARE WRONG! But thanks for the story reference Anna Molly, hadn't heard the story.

Bob:

Teachers pay over a $1,000.00 a year in dues. They can afford to pay the unions, but can't afford to contribute to their pensions?

They already DO contribute to their pensions. Those contributions on their behalf were negotiated with their employers many years ago in lieu of higher salaries. In the private sector, which you hold up so high, it's called "deferred compensation." I happened to be there at the time when it was negotiated in the district where I taught. Error #1

$40,000.00? Wrong again, it's $51,000.00, or $61,000.00 annualized plus priveged benefits, no stress over work performance, and incredible vacation.

I wasn't talking about any specific worker, or even the average. I was talking about, oh, let's say a nurse, or a secretary, or maybe a janitor. Error #2

But, since you mention it, Wisconsin teachers make on average $48,000, which is probably for 20 years or more of experience and a master's degree. Do YOU have a master's degree, Bobby, and if so, what do YOU make? Do YOU have benefits on top of your salary? How much is that? Do you even know? Do you somehow think that Wall Street bankers DON'T get benefits? What's wrong with benefits? By the way, I know all about this first hand, so don't try to tell me about it. Teachers here make about $5,000 less than the national average. Error #3

If you think teachers, for example, have no job stress, you just try it. If they aren't evaluated on their performance, blame their administrators. If a teacher isn't going to cut it, that's pretty well known within the first three years, when they DON'T have "tenure." To give you an example from my own experience, no administrator ever bothered to drop into my own classroom to take a peek until I was in my FOURTH year. In this scenario, which one of us wasn't doing his or her job? Error #4

As for vacations, you're just plain wrong. The school year calendar is determined by school boards. The idea is to give children off during summers and vacations. Teachers don't control that. By the way, two months in summer is more like the norm, and then there is summer school, workshops, etc. Teachers have to take classes to keep their certification. When I taught, I also coached, and I worked nights, weekends, and over those "vacations" you talk about. Try it sometime, Bobby. If it's so easy, you do it. I got out. Error #5

AFSCME President makes $629,291.00 - Treasurer makes $359,031.00.

NEA President makes $417,858.00 - A lowly regional director makes $314,790.00.

AFT President makes $368,985.00 - His assistany makes $219,493.00.

So what? The average BONUS on Wall Street last year was more than $118,000. I saw numbers from one firm where the average BONUS was more than $810,000. What do you suppose the SALARIES were? Union officials are small potatoes compared to the AVERAGE Wall Street broker. Besides, if teachers and other public workers want to pay dues for that, they're fully entitled to do it. IT'S NOT YOUR MONEY, BOBBY; IT'S THEIRS TO SPEND. And in Wisconsin, at least, THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED TO PAY DUES. Get that through your head, Bobby. Error #6

You are not in no joe's class,

You're darned right I'm not. I'm WAY out of her league. And yours, too, evidently. Error #7

But thanks for playing.

Interesting point ANNA M. - how did you come to the determination that you are "WAY' out of anyone's league?

Did you apply objective or subjective standards?

And come on ANNA M. where does their money come from? What is the source? A tad different that Wall Street. right? And yes there were bailout for Walls Street, but I think we can all agree that was a HUGE mistake.

AM: Really, Spanky?! You should talk to JoAnna, who said the other day that those smelly unions WERE the cause of California's deficit problem, as opposed to Texas, which has no unions but also has a mighty big deficit, and is ... well, just ... well ... different. You know? Different

Spanky: Come on, of course California public unions are KILLING us

You just never learn, do you AM? It's clear you have no grasp on reality, or what is going on to bankrupt all these states. You're trying to define a causal relationship that if a state is bankrupt that it was not caused by the unions, and that is just not true. There are many reasons a state can be broke. In Wisconsin, New York, Michigan, and California, it is true that the unions are huge part of why those states are broke, and each state is dealing with that problem. But you can't say "Look, look at Texas, they don't have unions and they're broke, so unions can't be the problem anywhere else!". That is just a ridiculous position for you to take.

Anna,

Deferred? Clever, lame argument.

That is the exact reason for the problems. The unions get the dem politicians to have the tax payers pay their retirement, its negotiated and deferred so it doesn't show up in the budget and so the tax payer have no real idea. But the tax payer makes all the contribution.

Sorry, all the talk has been about Walker and the teachers, kinda like the paragraph above, huh? But I did make a mistake in the numbers - the annualized is $68,000.00 not $61,000.00.

Weren't talking about Obama's buddies at Goldman Libbies and Sachs, or any other Wall Street execs. that don't have the unions negotiate against the tax payers for the salaries.

Teachers have no clue about stress. For gosh sake they were walking of the job over having to contribute 5.8% to their own pensions. (Bless their hearts, but it ain't the same when a boss can walk in any time time and say we have decided to make a change.)

It is what it is. They work the amount of days they work.

Certification? ....... the guy who inspects your car is certified. Big deal.

You stated unions don't get anything. I posted the above to show how moronic the statement is. Your reply was Wall Street. Can't keep up, huh.

Thanks Anna.

Spanky ~

I'll say this just once more and then be done with it. After a teacher or other public employee earns their money, IT'S NOT YOURS ANYMORE. It's theirs, and how they "play around" with it is not your business, any more as it relates to union dues than if they use it all to buy Girl Scout cookies and comic books or blow it all at the Ho Chunk Casino up the road a few miles. Any more than the money your clients pay you for your services belongs to them anymore. It just doesn't. They can't tell you what to do with it, including, if I were one of your clients, telling you not to invest in lead. That's just not my business, and it's not yours to tell public workers what to do with their salaries, either. You can disagree with how they spend it, like I disagree with your investing in lead, but you have no right to control it, and neither does Governor Walker.

And repeating mythology over and over again will not change it into reality.

But, yes, Wall Street money IS a different source. Unlike public workers' wages, the money Wall Street plays with IS your money, as you no doubt found out these past few years from looking at your retirement fund statements. Public employee pension funds were hit by those same losses, too, by the way. Or was that their own fault, too?

And a few more people found out the same thing when they lost their homes. Or did public unions make those people lose their homes, too? There's absolutely NO end to their corruption, is there?

As for being out of someone's league, did I say in which direction? Or did you just jump to the conclusion that I meant "above"?

And now if you will excuse me ....

Bob:

Teachers have no clue about stress. For gosh sake they were walking of the job over having to contribute 5.8% to their own pensions. (Bless their hearts, but it ain't the same when a boss can walk in any time time and say we have decided to make a change.)

Offhand, I'd say you need a union, Bob.

But I did have that stress, the first three years that I taught, and I have it every day now. And there are other stresses besides that.

If you can't figure out the simple mechanics of deferred compensation, and how negotiations work, and that it DOES show up in school district budgets, or how Wall Street figures in here, then I can't help you. You need professional help for that beyond what I can give you.

I would recommend some classes, but teachers apparently don't have much effect on you, and you have no respect for them. Try Spanky. I'll bet Spanky knows all about deferred compensation and how that's hidden from view in the private sector all the time. And I'll bet Spanky knows all about what the average accountant makes, how much vacation THEY take, especially in the off tax season, and what fringe benefits THEY get. If you hire an accountant, Bob, you'd better start checking into what they do with the money you pay them. They just might be supporting democratic candidates WITH YOUR MONEY. You never know.

Or, wait. They're accountants, aren't they? Never mind. I have some experience with what THEY do with YOUR MONEY, but I doubt that Spanky would like it if I told you.

But let's get down too it and play a little Olbermann: whose worse: Grothman or the dude looked at the Republican and said "you are F'ing dead!?"

I missed this before. I have known one of these men personally for many years (and not in a personal relationship sense) but not the other, so I can't speak to him other than this incident, which I DID NOT CONDONE, but from what I know about Glenn Grothman, I'm 99.9 percent sure that Glenn is "worse."

I say that in all seriousness. And you should take off your partisan blinders and listen for a change.

Now you're just intentionally being ignorant.

Is that different from willful stupidity, Spanks?

Anna Molly, you have done a first-rate job stopping these guys' little toy tops from continuing to spin.

It's amazing how much these guys like to make up, mis-remember, or just repeat from the propaganda suppliers.

But they have to pound on their little tin drums, or they don't get paid.

Now, if just ONE of them would post reliable information from an uninvolved source - forget about any crap from the Heritage Foundation or Cato Institute, for example - that refutes your material in detail, there's be something to discuss. They not only don't have the data, they CAN'T get it because they fundamentally repeat lies and misinformation.

Certainly your description of the actual work life of a teacher is on the mark. My ex-wife put in 40 years as a high school teacher and not only did she have to work through holidays and "vacation," she also had to do other paying work to keep herself afloat. The scornful dismissal of teaching as a challenging, underpaid vocation is typical of the right wing.

But hey, there, bongo boys - you're READING this. Thank your teachers for THAT!

Anna Molly,

For being a midwestern professional woman your comments regarding unions and California couldn't be farther from the truth. Unions have been a great factor in the decline of the CA budget. Our state is over $26B+ in debt. Some of the expense has been in state entitlements, some expense in the number of bonds the state has issued, some of the expense is the cost of debt service necessary to pay for the "smoke-and-mirrows" method of budget balancing the previous years and the large number of agencies/boards/committees, many of which duplicate responsibilities.

Let's talk about the public service unions that former, and now current, Governor Jerry Brown initiated. At the current rate, the pension funds for public service state workers is not sustainable. Revunues for the pension fund losses of CalPers must, by law, be reimbursed by the taxpayers. Imagine, my 401K may be inadequate today, but I must still fund the pensions of state public service employees.

Let's talk about municipal public service employee unions that are in worse shape than the state unions. In Fresno County, the budget service for pensions alone is 53% and growing. In the city of San Diego, the city workers pension fund also drains the city budget.

And if the unions do not like what the legislators attempt to accomplish, they file suit with the 9th Circus Court who always finds favor with the unions. Or, the unions will strike until they recieve what they desire in a contract, and the state cannot break the union by hiring from outside. And who suffers from this action - yep, the citizens of the state.

Are you aware of some of the these situations, since you are located in the midwest and not a resident of the state? And if you are a midwesterner, why are our problems an issue for you? Shouldn;t you be concerned about what happens in your back yard first?

Anna, you are too polite so I will say it for you. bob, spanky and please insult me are not good enough to lick your boots. You give intelligent, cogent, well informed and factual responses and they come back with pure idiocy, lies (no, booby, they did not walk out because of having to contribute to their pensions, no matter how many times you say it, it is not true) and personal attacks on you.

Damn straight!

Anna - it looks to me like you laid out - and DEBUNKED - all of the 'talking points' that Spanky and Bob could throw at you. THis will not dissuade them from repeating those 'untruths'.

What really gets me about Bob is that he is all upset about how people who have WORKED for their WAGES are spending them. Gee, Bob, how would you like it if WE decided how YOU spend your salary?

Bob is all hung up on how the 'taxpayer' is 'funding' the Unions. Once the money is paid by the Employer (in this case, the State) - as a WAGE or SALARY, that money CEASES to be FUNDING and BECOMES a WAGE or SALARY. Now, how a person who receives that WAGE or SALARY spends it is no ones business but theirs.

Why is it that Bob has such a hard time with that concept?

Is he misinformed or WILLFULLY IGNORANT?

If you can't figure out the simple mechanics of deferred compensation, and how negotiations work, and that it DOES show up in school district budgets, or how Wall Street figures in here, then I can't help you. You need professional help for that beyond what I can give you.

Looks like game, set MATCH to Anna Molly!!!

Well done, Anna Molly, Well done.

"It's clear you have no grasp on reality, or what is going on to bankrupt all these states."

The recession has bankrupted the states. Due to high unemployment, the tax revenues for most states are down 12% while the necessity for state services has remained the same. Union pensions are deferred compensation that union members accepted in lieu of wage increases. The pension board invested these funds in wall street and they lost value in the recession. The state is now responsible to make up that value loss. Rather than doing that, the state wants the unions to defer more of their current compensation to make up the loss. The unions are NOT responsible for bankrupting the states.

Heartlight3

The pension board invested these funds in wall street and they lost value in the recession. The state is now responsible to make up that value loss.

THANK YOU FOR THIS POST.

What the states need to do is trun over those pensions to the employees and get out of the business of providing pensions. let the employees manage there own plans just like the private sector. the stock market is the reason why the plans are bankrupt. but i will say this, the public employees unions need to get with the times and treat there members like Private unions do, No sick time, if you don't work you don't get paid. reguarding teachers, limit there time off to 5 per school year sick and personal.

Thank those of you who came to my assistance here for all your kind words and support. You are all much more eloquent than I am.

Insult Me -- I confess I took Xanax the night before last. The tinest of doses because I needed to sleep.

safecracker ~ I didn't bring up California in the first place. JoAnna did that. I know nothing about California and haven't said one thing about it. JoAnna is the one who said one thing, and then Spanky said another. I now think Spanky was kidding, but there was no real way to know that at the time. My original question to JoAnna was about Texas, in response to something SHE said about Wisconsin. She evaded the question, as usual, but she, and you, and many of the others here, including Spanky (damn straight), and Bob and bob, have been bloviating about Wisconsin for two weeks now.

Not being from Wisconsin, therefore, this should probably be considered as your own admonition to yourselves to stop talking like you know something about it.

Damn straight, Spanky. Damn straight.

18. Wake up from Fantasyland and realize that you are talking out of your rump.

BIG THUMBS DOWN, but not so cowardly as to vote to collapse this comment.

At least it's easy to know you by what you stand for, and I'd prefer everyone know it.

Crush dissent and de-regulate insurance. Because insurance is working so well for all of us.

Oh, and let the air your grandchilden breathe get dirtier and dirtier, by de-regulating carbon, so that when you save them all that money that you claim you will by crushing unions, they will need that money to build environmentally safe bubbles just to survive.

Oh, and let the biggest Wall Street offenders get off scott free while punishing Fannie and Freddie for doing what George W. Bush made his own cause celeb to do -- put low-income people into houses.

You're a piece of work, new Malthus. You're not describing Fantasyland here, as devie suggests. You're describing Hades. And you're welcome to it.

Anna Did you catch Babs Boxer get schooled yesterday?

Why on earth would Obama tap Holdren "Mr. Global Cooling" as his global warming czar? Are we all just supposed to pretend that Holdren's brilliant theories from the 1970s do not exist? And really, what credabilty does he have now? He did KINDA screw the whole - world getting cooler- thing into the ground, right?

Devie and anna molly - And your solutions are what?

At least newmalthus has the backbone and intelligence to at least propose solutions while you and other FR liberals will only denigrate and ridicule his/her desire to be part of the solution while you offer nothing in return except the propensity to dwell in the past. Not every idea will be a winner but I give newmaultus a thumbs up for showing strength in offerring solutions vs your pathic refusal to offer any of your own.

Awww, that's too easy. Their solution, to everything is MORE TAXES. Tax the eeevvvill rich and horrible corporations.

Note that they cannot refute the obvious issues presented by Holdren. Cause see he wanted to tax the crap out of everyone to prevent cooling. Now its tax the crap out of everyone to prevent warming.

A tad inconsistent, no?

american ~

You purport to know me. How is that? How do you know I have no solutions? What makes you think I'm unintelligent? From where I sit, it seems clear that NewMalthus doesn't propose ANY forward-looking "solutions." He proposes a rollback to the past -- the dirty, dirty years of 19th Century London, it sounds like to me. Complete with sweatshops. Or maybe modern day Beijing. Look at a few pictures of THAT before you start to criticize me. Not every one of his ideas not a winner, by any means. I do notice, however, that you haven't stood up for any of them in particular or even bothered to refute the substance of I said. All you did was to accuse me of things and stereotype me.

I don't denigrate or ridicule anyone, at least unless and until they do it first. And I hate it when righties project.

But out of genuine concern for your wellbeing, I do have to ask: Are you feeling okay, dear?

(I learned that subtle little psychological trick from Spanky and JoAnna.)

All right look everyone, after yesterday and today I think we are going to have to lay off Anna M. I know it's fun , but she's having a very rough patch lately.

And really, it not her fault, Well, sure her libbie-isn-ness is, but dog gone it the current events and political discourse is just so profoundly against her and her ideals it's really, really hard.

She hates, hates, hates, the goings on in Wisconsin, but she is very bright and sees Ohio, and the writing on that dreaded wall. She railes against the Tea Party, bet sees that it is in control of the national discussion. And golly but Bush is long gone and complaints against him just fall flat.

So, let's give her a pass for a couple of days, let her re-group. After all she in here everyday putting up the good fight. None of her brothers in libbie-ness can mount even half a challenge leaving her all the heavy lifting.

So it's on you now Bev., Fiesty and DBO. Pick up AM's mantle and fight the fight. That is going to require some actual substance. K?

devie,

Somebody's rump got 8 times the votes you did?

Anna,

EPA head, Gina McCarthy, when asked by Joe Barton what the atmospheric CO2 level was - had no clue.

AND SHE IS THE TOP REGULATOR OF CO2, the one putting in all the regulations!

Sheez. Inexcusable, unbelievable! What an embarassment. She doesn't have a computer with google.

And about Bush and Fannie and Freddie - Please Wki "The Federal Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005" and get a clue about the financial meltdown and who is to blame.

Hey there B-18 I don't post here for your approval or the votes. Most of the time I do it for the laughs at yours and the rest of Fox Hugger Gang that post here. Yes that would be your evil twin bob, ITM, PIM, JAS1, MB, njnb, safecracker, Spanky, joe in albany, Steve, TA, Madison, etc. I really enjoy the battle. It makes reading about our politcal clowns all the more fun.

Still - you gotta admit it is pretty funny his rump got more votes.

BTW - cute name.

AM,

Reading thru these messages, I almost see you as a woman tied to a stake, with B-18 and his ilk, who appear to get all their info from the modern "Big Brother" (i.e. Fox News) circling with their torches, just itching to burn you in any way they can. I admire how fireproof you have been.

As a man who was married to a school teacher for 15 years, and have now been married to another school teacher for the past 12 years, I want to re-iterate that being a teacher is a career choice made by the heart, and not the cold calculation of which route will create the most wealth. They both worked and work many more hours than I ever have. Into the night, on weekends, and in the (two months of) summer 'break' to maintain their professional standing. Their credentials represent 5 or more years of college, and an ability to get knowledge into the minds of our children. But for all they do, it seems that many of us choose to ignore their literally selfless efforts. And, on top of all that, they both have spent even more than their union dues each year on classroom supplies. Since I work in the private sector, and make twice what my wife makes, I know that I do not work anywhere near as hard, and do not need to buy ANY supplies. My employer(s) seem to have always been able to provide any little thing needed.

And about stress. You could never get me to teach. Students limited attention spans, very unrealistic and clueless parents, governments and school administration requirements for seemingly endless reports and additional testing, etc., create an environment where I would long ago have gone completely mad. My adult business clients are so collected and reasonable, even in the most heated negotiations, compared to what I have witnessed and heard my wives endure.

So, good for you AM, and for all those who have chosen the path of a K thru 12 teacher. And my gratitude to you for hanging in there, despite the overwhelming thankless and ignorant attitude of so many citizens.

Hey B-18, Why don't you catch one of the high spoeed trains to nowhere... back to Fox?

I would love to catch the shiny train, but here in Cali it'll run from nowhere to nowhere. And do it at the low, ;ow cost of $79 billion dollars.

WTF, devie, wtf.

@Spanky,

Nothing like having a bond that we will all have to pay for in future years at the rate of $2 for each $ borrowed, huh? And the shiny train does run from nowhere to nowhere will cost more than the $79B in your post.

Did you happen to read the failed analysis behind the original proposal? It seems the board did not calculate the actual costs honestly, instead using typical Sacramento Spending Party accounting methods to doctor the report into being more favorable for passage of the bonds. And if it is ever built, ridership will still be required to take the bus between Bakersfield and LA. The tree-huggers don't want to see the Grapevine damaged from rails.

What a joke from the Controlling Spending Party.

THe footage shows him being chased and assalted. You can try to spin it any way you like.

Saw the footage, and it certainly does not. You can try to spin it anyway you want.

Hey NewDay how about the "you are dead" comment?"

That meet or exceed your definition of Thuggery? The man who made that statement to the femalw is a servant of the people of Wisconsin, correct? So why did he do it?

Where's all that civility NewDay - come on your head literally exploded when Giffords was shot. You in particular went off, blaming republicans and Palin for that shooting. And let's recall the democrat who called out for a republican's death at at Tuscon town hall just days after the Gifford shooting.

So here we are. You were "dead" wrong then, and looky here, but it seems since then there has been a "rash" in non-civility from democrats. What do you have to say now?

You are disappointed in your side, right?

Newday:

I watched that footage and those protesters did get out of hand with that Senator. He very politely informed those particular people on the show; he traveled back to his district and he is getting nothing but support. Those are the people he is accountable to. "The ones that BRUNG Ya". That one lady on the show made herself look really ignorant. All of that interupting and yelling was unecessary.

The Senator was calm even though O'Donnell was trying to provoke him.

BTW: What about that man telling the Senator "You are Dead'??????????? Why aren't you yelling and screaming about that?

Well let's hope that the Federal Government this out better than WI has. ND I heard the audio and the guy was refusing to believe that the protesters were fire fighters, police officers and the like. They were apparently just the scum of the earth. I especially liked his spin on the fourth graders. That guy is not representing his constituents just the special interests.

newdayDAWNING10

His attitude toward his neighbors in Wisconsin bespoke of the contempt that he feels. He sees them as the "serving class" and how dare they question "their betters". Why would anyone stand for that in an elected official, I don't care if you are Republican or Democrat! Grothman forgets that as an elected official, he is a servant to the people of Wisconsin. He has it exactly backwards. He thinks they are there to serve him.

He thought he could practice his union busting skills pre-maturely. The GOP/ T-baggers are having problems meeting with Dems here lately.

The GOP/ T-bagger leaders do not look eager and unintelligent after saying a meeting might not happen; and then turn around and say yes. They shouldn't dither any longer just to placate the t-baggers. This is serious business.

Devie: I am not sure that Americans expect Biden and the Republicans to negotiate. Maybe it is us. If we have to give up even a tiny piece of pie, somehow that is a loss, rather than the give and take that negotiation should be. And I was shocked by the attitude of that Senator. Can't imagine why either side of the aisle finds that acceptable.

Very serious, Beverly.

So devie, Newday and of course Bev. - best union buster ever - Obama.

So where's his rally cry to get the Fed all unioned up?

Seems that newday is ignoring the question asked. She will try to thump the right for being uncivil but will give the left a pass by condoning it with silence. Bet she is worried that her top ranking in the siasd club is in jeaperdy.

PSST. american - do not confuse ignore with unable to. As in NewDay is unable to formulate a response.

It is well understood in the law that there are various types of admissions. one type is known as an admission by silence. When some has the chance to refute something, but does not, it can be understood to be an admission by silence.

Neat, eh, NewDay?

dangerfield

Haha...like that's not what happens to almost every thread...

Your link was very slovenly. What if some one called you a slob for posting it?

How do think is crazier Charlie Sheen, Mike Huckabee, House Speaker John Boehner , Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, or all t-baggers?

With all the give aways to those evil corporations some onr has to be out of their gourd to accept those tax cuts instead of housing education, labor, and infrastructure!!!

You'd think my now the GOP/T-Baggers would realize doing the same thine over and over with out any results is crazy.

Well, I guess the GOP/T-Baggers leaders are finally realizing saying "No" all the time is just not gonna cut it.

How do think is crazier...

________________________________________________________________________________________

Yep...:)

I understand Bev. Execising independent thought is obviously not your strong suit.

But is good to see how easily you take direction. Classic.

Spanky-

I understand Bev. Execising independent thought is obviously not your strong suit.

But is good to see how easily you take direction. Classic.

Moi? Unlike you I'm not a Koch head. I do have some decorum. And I don't need to cast doubts and fantasies when the obvious is there. Do you really think giving tax breaks to the ruthless is better for you?

What precisley is a "Koch head?" Do you know them? If so can you hook me up? I would totally love to do some work for them. Rich clients are the absolute best, right Anna M.

And dear - I LOVE tax break. We all do, so like I tried to explain to Dominico, it's really all about perspective, correct?

[Stinky clients suck].

Pluto-Fascism is the end product of the RE-peat-the-lie-to-the-PUBLIC-an agenda. They are paid to sabotage progress.

Paul.......subpeona empowered investigation?...................no?..........hmmmm.............foxhole?.............no?..........curious

AnnaBanana..............your name fits you to a tee!

TrueAmerican,

I'm even in the urban dictionary. Quite flattering. Unlike Rick "Santorum"

Made you look! :)

JoAnnaSmith1

And whats Biden doing there? Can't Harry Reid get his own caucus in the Senate together to figure out a budget?

Joanna it called making a deal, deal, Biden, Bohner and McConnell are goingto make a deal, the same kind of deal they made during the lame duck secession. i did not here you cry about that. they will come to a agreement that the senate dems, Republicans and Tp can go with.

the only problem Joanna, i bet you a 10 spot, that what ever come from this meeting and the deal they come up with, the TP will be a problem. Bohner and mcConnell have to answer to the tea party.

If you think the senate democrats are going to give the house 61 billion in spending cuts from 12% of the bugdet, i have some land to sell you in the middle of lake michigan. Defense Joanna. Defense.

jeff - so where is reid in all of this? it appears that the democrats want a return to when they held all the cards.

No boehner and mcconnel don't have to answer to the tea party, They just have to sell the freshman class on what political compromise means.

61 billion is 4% of a 1.5 trillion budget for FY 2011. be glad the republicans don't want a 100 billion cut.

american-2051576

No boehner and mcconnel don't have to answer to the tea party, They just have to sell the freshman class on what political compromise means.

Oha yes they do!!!!!!!!! the TP/freshmen class does not know what it mean to compromise, this is the problem American. why do you think they extended the tax cuts before they came in, why because they would have never signed off on that. it was a compromise American.

Defense American, cut Defense, and you will get your 100 billion. Poll show us that most don't want cuts in domestic spending, they want defense and foreign aid.

$61 billion is the deal. If the Democrats want to play some games on the edges, that's fine. But the total will be $61 billion in cuts. So Democrats, you have your work cut out for you. When are you going to start voting on these cuts?

JoAnnaSmith1

$61 billion is the deal. If the Democrats want to play some games on the edges, that's fine. But the total will be $61 billion in cuts. So Democrats, you have your work cut out for you. When are you going to start voting on these cuts

Oha ok I see, when the lame duck secession producted compromise that was wrong. so now your saying that there is no room to compromise on the republican side, watch and see Joanna, Bohner will compromise on the 61 billion. i see them meeting half way. it would be more if the republicans were not such Pu**ys about cutting defense the way it should be. .

Steeler Fan-380417

The last time VP Biden got involved in this type of negotiation, during the lame duck session, things got done. He has a lot of experience and gets results. As a VP I think he's done a great job.

Furthermore, Steeler Fan VP Biden has experience. Most of the newly elected T-baggers don't even know which way the bathroom is with being told.

I still can't forget the two Tea Party who never showed up to be sworn in as Congressmen because they were out drinking at a fundraiser.

I agree VP Biden can offer a lot of solutions with his experience.

Perhaps VP Biden can help the new GOP/T-Baggers break the Koch addition.

Hi Bev---seems to me that I recall that one of those 2 who missed the swearing in ceremony was not a freshman. But let's not forget that they held their hands up in front of the TV and swore the oath----close enough in their world I guess.

I have a sense that VP Biden does a lot behind the scenes that doesn't get a lot of focus in the media---just goes about getting the job done.

Hey there Bev., nice to see you have recovered from that head-ache.

It's called aspirin there Spanky. But I think she was suffering from one of those annoying Spanky aches. It usually affects the rump or the neck but on a rare occassion the affects are felt in the head.