Gee, someone wants Feisty Redhead to pay attention to him very badly. Sorry Spanky, looks like your gonna have to act out your name.

of what the restroom attendants local?

Bob-1887910

John Kasich for Vice President!

You mean VP of Fox Noise. He's done. Have you noticed the Repubs are writing their own obituary with these pre-industrial ideas?

The US doesn't like union busting.

Kasich for VP

GOP field is getting crowded with excellent governors, governors that represent the Real American heroes, the taxpayers.

Oh, and this legislation will pass into law much more smoothly from what we've seen in WI and IN. That's because after last years Ohio elections, the legislator has overwhelming majorities of Republicans, and both houses in Ohio would have quorums even if the Democrats in them ran away.

"You mean VP of Fox Noise. He's done."

Done? Just starting. Please be aware John Kasich, Scott Walker, Ric Snyder were just elected in November 2010, when the voters threw out 63 House Democrats and a boatload of Democratic Governors.

Elections have consequences. Screech all you want, if it makes you feel better, Bev.

Hey Devie, did you miss the fact that he doesn't like unions, or are you just an expert of making asinine comments?

"Police and fire unions complain it would eliminate collective bargaining for protective gear, such as body armor."

Boy, the nerve of those greedy, whiny, pampered little cops......

Of course, since the NRA thinks we should all have the right to buy all the armor-piercing bullets we want, it's not like the armor was going to help them anyway.....and it's certainly not like cops are "Real American heroes".....right JoAnna?

Hey Bev, Americans may like Union Busting.......while unions hate union busting.......OK?

JoAnnaSmith1

Kasich for VP

GOP field is getting crowded with excellent governors, governors that represent the Real American heroes, the taxpayers.

Oh, and this legislation will pass into law much more smoothly from what we've seen in WI and IN. That's because after last years Ohio elections, the legislator has overwhelming majorities of Republicans, and both houses in Ohio would have quorums even if the Democrats in them ran away.

Girl, I will say again if ignorance were bless you would be the pope!!!!

the reason why it went so well is because they did not take away what scott walker is trying and that is Collective barganing with wages, hours, and terms and conditions of employment. if scott walker would get his head out of his A*s and do the same, this WI would not be a story. but this guy has pissed of the cops and firemen, something scott walker was too much of a Pu**y to try and do.

All right JoAnne. Excellent segway from "but it's for the children!" teachers' union, right to "but it's about safety!"

It's about debt, or do you really believe the police lack any safety device they need? Really, you actually think that, or could it just possibly be they are hiding behind "safety" as cover for wages? Naw, the police would never do that. right JOAnne?

Also, if it is sooooo bad, they are free to seek alternative employment, right?

back away from the tit.

And aren't we clever. Of course, some of us liberals aren't actually on the ...

Oh, never mind. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good crude snark.

And you'd better hope you never need the ... because, unlike your parents and mine, who understood the benefit of shared burdens, you and your cronies are doing your level best to make sure it won't be there for you.

Me? I hope you need it some day. Would do you good to find out what that's like.

Elections have consequences.

Including recall elections.

Also, if it is sooooo bad, they are free to seek alternative employment, right?

And that would be WHERE? Go over and read today's Wisconsin thread, and see what Walker has planned for Wisconsin schools. It won't be new teaching jobs, that's for sure.

And if it's sooooo good, Spanky, then why aren't YOU doing it? It's such a fulfilling career, and you seem to know everything. I'll bet you'd be a great teacher -- all that warm-hearted compassion and fuzziness and all.

Better hurry and sign up. People will be clamoring for those glamour jobs now that the pay and benefits are being slashed and hours and working conditions will be non-negotiable. Man, it sure beats pushing a broom.

But not by much.

It's about debt, or do you really believe the police lack any safety device they need?

Are you kidding? This isn't a television series, Spanky. In Wisconsin, they'll be making some cuts in that area, too.

Well, sure, Spanky, now there's a solution. Have all the cops quit - who needs 'em, anyway? Maybe they could all seek alternative employment at that little workers paradise you claim to run.

Oh, and "as cover for wages"? Yeah, let me know when you go to the next FOP meeting to tell them they're all a bunch of overpaid crybabies. I'll pay admission.

By the way, a segway is one of those two-wheeled scooter things. You know, like the owner of the company drove over that cliff a while back? Did you mean by any chance mean "segue"?

Including recall elections.

Gonna be a whole lot of recall'in going'n on across the country. To be honest, I've never seen you Libs so darn angry. It is an absolute hoot to watch.

safecracker:

Americans like unionbusting ....

Long as you're out here on First Read, safecracker, maybe you ought to read the NYT/WSJ poll that's linked at the top of this page:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/03/02/6171265-nbcwsj-poll-62-against-stripping-public-employees-bargaining-rights

62 percent of "Americans" happen to be AGAINST taking away public employee collective bargaining rights.

Or is 62 percent of the population unAmerican now? 62 percent Communist. How about that?

Pounding those unions may just have consequences of its own, cracker.

COLUMBUS — Ohio took its first step Wednesday toward passing sweeping legislation that would curtail collective bargaining rights for public sector workers, banning strikes and putting the power of breaking labor impasses into the hands of town councils.

.

Unions called it the biggest blow to public sector workers since the legal framework was put in place to protect them in 1983. Republican lawmakers argued that it was required in order to keep local governments solvent

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/03/us/03states.html

Jeff: the reason why it went so well is because they did not take away what scott walker is trying and that is Collective barganing with wages, hours, and terms and conditions of employment.

Those union people sure sound upset about it Jeff'y.

This brings Joy to my heart....... to see Liberals so Angry.

62 percent of "Americans" happen to be AGAINST taking away public employee collective bargaining rights.

It's called making tough choices. It's called balancing the budget. It's called protecting the already over-taxed taxpayers. It's called acting like an adult, facing the nations/states problems, and coming up with solutions.

There's an election coming up again next year, you Libs can run on that 62%. During the campaign, be sure to tell people how much their taxes will be going up because you'll be siding with the unions. Let us know how it goes for you.

keep sucking up to corporate America JoAnna, see how it works out for ya.

Joanna,

Those union people sure sound upset about it Jeff'y.

Honey please only my mother could call me that and she is no longer with us, so please next time, i will accept a*s hole, Dumb a*s, any thing but jeffy!!!!

JoAnna -

I'll pay double the admission to that FOP meeting if you'll go along with Spanky and tell those overpaid crybaby cops that they aren't "REAL American heroes" like the American taxpayers are.

Oh, wait.....cops and firemen pay taxes too. So I guess they're at least heroes on a technicality, right?

P.S. - No anger from this Lib. I went to a building implosion once and thought it was really cool. Not nearly as cool as watching these governors implode, but still pretty cool.

OK ANNA Molly,Polls can come up with amazing results based upon how the poll questions are couched, the demographics of the people surveyed, the number of people being surveyed. So many variables.

Liberals often talk about the need not to put faith in polls. To that end, I am like a libbie, I don't believe in them.

Or is 62 percent of the population unAmerican now? 62 percent Communist. How about that?

See my statement above. Now where did the Communist comment come from? Not me......

Pounding those unions may just have consequences of its own, cracker.

Perhaps, but perhaps not. We shall see in the 2012 elections. My personal belief is the union issue will be forgotten by most voters, instead they want to see action in jobs and economy. With gas increasing upwards, with no plan by this administration, family expense will increase accordingly. Companies may not hire, in fact, lay-off due to economic conditions. Only the union leaders will play the union card with no sympathy from the majority of Americans.

And the handle is safecracker. Your phrase of "cracker" is a reference to the original settlers of Florida. Or, are you intending to insult the majority of Southrons by that phrase?

Gosh Anna Molly, please answer one valid query: Why do libbies consistently demean those who differ in opinion from them? Are you afraid you may be wrong, or is it just a ploy to move the subject when the liberal has no valid response to the question?

• !

#2.16 - Wed Mar 2, 2011 3:22 PM PST

Hey, guys- hot off the presses.

Obama is back down to 48% approval in this poll.

He has been negative on the daily tracking polls for a couple of days, too.

Guess the party is over. . .

JoAnnaSmith1

As i got home for the night i have one question, with scott walker gutting education, what makes him think business will come to his state, you know the people who work for all these business will have to find school to send there kids to, if the class room sizes are at 30 and there is no band, Gym, or other thnigs that attract the good students what will happen, not everybody can afford to send there kids to private school.

also what kinds of teachers will he attract considering the anti teachers mode in WI ? Not the best. My kids went to Evanston IL schools, i use to send them to Park Forest schools (look up the citys) when my kids were in park Forest they has a hard time keeping good teachers because the did not have the funds to attract the best, but the evanston schools did. park forest spend about 6k per student, but Evanston spend 12k. guess why my kids did so well, they had the best teachers teaching them in Evanston, Home of Northwestern Univ.

please give me a honest answer and i will let you call me Jeffy!!!

Ok so I screwed that one up - it was not Feisty, but rather Anna M.'s head that exploded.

Hey JoAnne how many folk do you think would take the place, at the current, or even reduced wages and benefits of the firemen and police?

Good news [although I don't know what a FOP is] around here, in sunny San Diego were we have been flat broke precisely because of public pensions for a long time, is that the Mayor and even our very democratic leaning city council is telling the overpaid cops, fire, trash and everyone else on that tit Anna M. isn't on to back the hell away.

And good Golly Anna Molly, but that is exactly why I started planning for retirement at 19 years old. You see people with an accounting background tend to be very conservative.

And unless that $14 trillion is going to get repaid, and we know it ain't "it" will not be there for me.

Gold was great, had a very nice run, but I going with silver for awhile. And LOTS of lead. When it gets real bad, it'll be the lead supply that will save your ass, right AM?

"Hey JoAnne how many folk do you think would take the place, at the current, or even reduced wages and benefits of the firemen and police?"

Not many, Spanky - certainly not me. I'd almost rather work for you. I'll even bring my own body armor.

Oh, and if you don't know what the FOP is, then I think we've pretty much exhausted the potential for any meaningful discussion about cops. See you tomorrow.

And good Golly Anna Molly, but that is exactly why I started planning for retirement at 19 years old. You see people with an accounting background tend to be very conservative.

Yes, I know some personally. But you -- deliberately, I presume -- didn't speak to the point I made about WHO should pay all this money back. My point is that those who profited should at least SHARE the pain. In fact, in my view, they should take the BRUNT of the pain. Including you, probably, from everything you say, although how you ever actually get any work done is hard for me to see.

But anyway, that's not what's happening. The pain is deliberately being put onto those who are most innocent of the blame and who can least afford the pain. And it's being put there by those who are most to blame, including Congress and the President, who are just as complicit as those who egg them on. At the very least, you ought to see this as a moral issue. Or doesn't that word mean anything to you? I suspect the word human doesn't mean much, either. And suffering. That doesn't even seem to ring a bell.

As for lead, when it gets that bad, Spanky, and you and your friends are certainly advocating in that direction, I'll be unarmed bystander who gets caught in the crossfire. But my conscience will be clear. I stood for something besides money and guns.

Anybody here interested in what a real polling organization has to say about unions?

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1295.xml?ReleaseID=1562

I have not been able to find the cross tabs on the NBC poll. Should be interesting, as they got the same results CBS got.

Odd the Quinnipiac got such different results. The only ones not finding the same thing the AFL CIO got.

Curioser and curiouser. . .

You know how Anna M - associates and a crack staff.

And calm down dear, you really seem to be wound tight right now. Fun, jovial discussion and all that, remember? Besides, really, innocence? You mean in your opinion, and based upon your perspective. As you might imagine, as I know you can see some of us with differing views from that high horse, we disagree.

Funny you speak of morality. I think knowingly incurring debt you cannot repay is immoral. But hey, should it all fall apart, or China pulls the plug, or you do get caught in the cross-fire, you will certainly be comforted by your principles.

And really that's all we got, right?

And the handle is safecracker. Your phrase of "cracker" is a reference to the original settlers of Florida. Or, are you intending to insult the majority of Southrons by that phrase?

My sincere apologies. It was my mistake. I have no reason to insult the majority of Southrons. Au contraire. I never made the connection. Since you called yourself safecracker, I thought you were referring to something else. Cracker was merely affectionate shorthand. To me it's a savory cookie.

And calm down dear, you really seem to be wound tight right now. Fun, jovial discussion and all that, remember?

Is that really all you've got, Spanky? Sigh.

Working families and public unions didn't cause the debt crisis. And it's not just my opinion. I've read several articles on this lately that explain it clearly. The experts pretty much agree on this. Failed republicanism caused the debt crisis. The experts pretty much agree on this, too. So do the politicians. Otherwise, why was Bush's first reaction a big bailout and Obama's first reaction a big stimulus plan? Why didn't they pounce on those nasty public workers right from the beginning? Because they knew, and so do you, that the workers weren't the problem. And that's why it's not just Wisconsin or unionized states that are going through it. You conservatives never do have an answer for that, do you?

And yes, I'll be comforted by my principles, even though I'm not particularly religious. I've given up money as a principle. And I also won't start the fight that divides us all. Find whatever comfort you can in knowing that your side, through its unexampled greed and selfishness, its relentless and deliberate driving of wedges between people, and its wrong-headed, wrong-hearted policies and warmongering, already did that. Just like Osama bin Laden drew it up. You've been duped. I hope you love your money enough to make it all worth it, Spanky. Because some day it may be all you have left. And sooner than you think.

Wound tight? No. Tired? Yes. Pound the unions. Paper rock scissors. You picked rock. You win.

And on the bloody morning after, one tin soldier rides away.

just another lie, look at my left hand while my right hand puts a knife in your back. How could they be fooled? republican politics for the last 20 years, i guess we know what their plans were now. the wolf is in the hen house, but i didn't put him there. us against them. time to stand! time for the truth! look at your children, that's what's at stake. time to put up a new fence and that fence will be me and my union brothers and sisters standing side by side.

Hey Devie, did you miss the fact that he doesn't like unions, or are you just an expert of making asinine comments?

Hey Brutus, I was being ironical. Enjoy life a little! Stop taking yourself and remarks made in jest so seriously! You totally missed the point, what a goof!

It's about debt, or do you really believe the police lack any safety device they need?

That is ridiculous. I work in the first responder safety products industry. There is a huge percentage of police on the streets with expired, inadequate, or no armor at all. My company has adopted a dozen or more departments that couldn't afford armor just in the last year, but there is only so much we can do -- even as an industry. Every time these men and women report to work they run the real risk of being shot and killed. The problem is even worse in high crime areas. Those departments often have the weakest tax base, and due to the high crime have terrible attrition rates in their departments. That means employing lots of new cops as part timers so they don't have to provide any gear. That leaves it up to the individual to purchase uniforms, armor, etc...

After 9/11 the fire service got a huge boost in AFG grants to purchase necessary equipment, but that is running out now too. In the not too distant future you will begin seeing reports of firemen who refuse to enter structure fires because they do not have functioning breathing apparatus. Funding to fire prevention is drying up as well. So when a restaurant catches on fire and burns down a whole city block and the firemen can't enter the buildings to save people because the state cut funding for inspection and safety equipment, then at least you can sleep warm at night knowing your tax dollars didn't get wasted on union members.

You really need to check in with reality before you make such sweepingly uninformed statements.

Union busting works for me Devie.

Yep, I always say let the Republicans be Republicans. The masters of overreach... win a battle, lose the war.

Nope NewDay, the war is about $14 Trillion or have you conceded that there is no possible way to ever pay that back and that we will be buried by debt service?

Focus on the big picture dear. I know it's hard, but those are the facts.

Union busting works for me Devie.

But not for 62 percent of the country, cracker.

So what does that make you -- could it be ... unAmerican? LoL

Spankster ....out here giving the ladies a hard time again huh...the big picture is that Walker and the Repubs want bust the unions and then get rid of the workers so that they can..say it now "privatize". You know those sweetheart deals that are no bid and will drain state budgets but don't let that blur your view.

safecracker

Didn't you just say you were leaving this vine and not coming back yesterday? You are a real liar and an ignoramus...be gone dork

Nope NewDay, the war is about $14 Trillion or have you conceded that there is no possible way to ever pay that back and that we will be buried by debt service?

Focus on the big picture dear. I know it's hard, but those are the facts.

Hard? It's not hard. Follow the chain of logic here, "dear." Maybe Halliburton, Blackwater, and the other corrupt corporations who actually fed off that particular government ... (what was that you called it again?) ... could offer to pay some of that ill-gotten money back -- you know, cut THEIR employees' salaries and benefits, why doncha? Not to mention their shareholders. They stole it, make them cough it back up. Where's THAT proposal? Why should government workers, with the possible exception of Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, George W. Bush, Condoleezza Rice, Alberto Gonzales, and CONGRESS, be asked to pay for THAT?

Tilting at more windmills, ignoring the facts. Tough way to go, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

Entitlements Anna M. Come on say it with me: Get off the tit. Cause see $2.2 Trillion DOES NOT equal $3.8. It sucks, but it;s just basic math, and you my dear are on the losing side of the equation.

But keep up the fight. If I didn't know better I'd say Bev. Fiesty, Navy and the rest of the libbie gang are folding up their tents. No surprise, but that leaves you as our resident lefty warrior.

Fight on AM!

They're all smarter than I am.

But I don't see how I can be on the losing side of the equation when I have great economic minds like yours to solve all these problems for me. All I have to do is sit around and wait for all that money to flow in. It ought to be any time now.

As soon as John Boehner and his disciples get through vanquishing all those SCARY unions.

I'm off now, too. Farmville calls. See you later.

The tide has turned!

Indeed. It's either turned against 62 percent of Americans, making your boys unAmerican, or it's turned against your boys.

Either way, lie back and enjoy it, Bob.

If the unions are so corrupt, Bob, then tell me why the average teacher in Wisconsin makes $48,000, with about 20 years of experience and a master's degree, while the average BONUS on Wall Street last year was $118,000+? Talk about sucking the ... stream of commerce.

If unions are so corrupt, then why aren't public employees richer than those poor, put-upon bankers we had to bail out?

And if the unions can't do better than that, then why is your hero John Boehner afraid of them? He is, you know. Because he said so. I mean, those librarian poodles are SCARY. The police are scary. Firefighters are scary. The state patrol is scary. Teachers are scary. Nurses are scary. Highway workers are scary. Natural resources wardens are scary. Garbage collectors are scary. People who work in school lunch programs are scary. Janitors are scary. Secretaries are scary. Teaching assistants are scary. Social workers are scary. Professors are scary. Scientists are scary.

Apparently, everyone is scary to you and John Boehner, Bob. In fact, I think you'd better go hide before they get YOU.

Because those SCARY folks are out here, Bob. And they know who you are.

How silly are you, Bob? I guess about as silly as John Boehner.

As Sarah Palin might say, if you don't like unions, then "man up." Show 'em who's boss, Bob.

Hey Bob they were elected because people are PO'd about no jobs. So far the Repubs have done nothing to create jobs and are trying to destroy jobs. They are showing themselves to be the two faced liars that they are, you know say one thing and do another

Anna

There's no talking to these people. They can't see that once Unions are gone workers will have no way to negotiate. Wages and benefits will continue to spiral down until we live in a 3rd world country. Say isn't that what they are rioting about in the Middle East?

Wages and benefits will continue to spiral down until we live in a 3rd world country. Say isn't that what they are rioting about in the Middle East?

Errrh, no.

JoAnnaSmith1

Wages and benefits will continue to spiral down until we live in a 3rd world country. Say isn't that what they are rioting about in the Middle East?

Errrh, no.

Err no what?!? The playing field is rigged just like it is becoming here. The difference is that so far we don't have guns pointed at us telling us what to do. But we are being legislated into poverty and the loss of freedoms. It has been happening for the last 30 years since St Reagan started with his borrow and spend trickle down (whizzed on) policy...Snap out of it

Say rc- who do you think controls the Federal government right now?

The presidency and the Senate. Why do you hate dems so much?

Spank I don't. I don't like liars like you. Are you forgetting that the Repubs have been saying no for 2 years and now are trying to stop the recovery. You could get rid of all the social programs and you wouldn't even put a dent in reducing the budget. You and your cohorts are all about greed and pain for those that least can afford it. It will come back to haunt all of us in this country. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall

Amen to that Beverly.

Indeed. Most excellent.

Job1

Amen to that Beverly.

Job1

Spanky and the little rascals can analyze and refute all they want. The community organizer got their number. Even if Jesus Christ re-incarnate appeared to them they'd still cling to their FOX ECHO CHAMBER Lies.

The little pesky rascals have not been listening lately how much true liberals and most Americans really don't like governors treating working class people Les Miserables.

They really need to stop this uncivil union and union busting narrative we are not their Bon Appetit.

Hey Spanker since you're the ring leader tell you t-bagger friends that 12 trillion will be paid down just it was under every other President. Stop disrespecting Uncle Sam.

DeNile, it's not just a river in the middle east. But I don't watch Fox. I'm all MSNBC, all the time. Now if only you would do the same, maybe they'd get some damn ratings?

1. Thanks for designating me the ring leader, but we all know it's NoJo and you and Feisty got a bad case of the NoJO. Which really is no surprise as she regularly schools you two, but I think you get that. Everyone else sure does;

2. I'd love to respond to your post, but I only speak english and that typically precludes me from understanding you. Please re-read your last sentence.

3. And I know - disrepecting "uncle sam" is racism.

Start the impeachment process against Walker?

Sure. What law did he break?

You do realize any trial would be in the Wisconsin state legislator. The heavily Republican Wisconsin state legislator.

@JoAnnaSmith1 - So far has ignored the injunction to allow people access to the State House. Seems that violating a provision of Wisconsin's Constitution is a pretty good place to start with a charge of failing to fulfil his sworn duties of the office:

Article IV, §28
Oath of office. Section 28. Members of the legislature, and all officers, executive and judicial, except such inferior officers as may be by law exempted, shall before they enter upon the duties of their respective offices, take and subscribe an oath or affirmation to support the constitution of the United States and the constitution of the state of Wisconsin, and faithfully to discharge the duties of their respective offices to the best of their ability.

start the inpeachment process on the cowardly senators for not doing thier job or not even showing up.

The only problem with a recall petition at this point is the Wisc Constitution states recall may happen after one year of serving the elected term:

Article XIII, §12
Recall of elective officers. Section 12. [As created Nov. 1926 and amended April 1981] The qualified electors of the state, of any congressional, judicial or legislative district or of any county may petition for the recall of any incumbent elective officer after the first year of the term for which the incumbent was elected, by filing a petition with the filing officer with whom the nomination petition to the office in the primary is filed, demanding the recall of the incumbent.

Fortunately for the populace of Wisconsin, in addition to ignoring a court injunction, he accepted a bribe on tape. Doesn't matter the caller on the other end of the phone call was not the person Walker thought he was talking to. Consider that "prank" call when Walker thought he was talking to one of the Koch brothers as a sting operation.

Since Walker believed he was talking to someone with the power and means to offer him a reward for specific actions:

Article XIII, §11
Passes, franks and privileges. Section 11. [As created Nov. 1902 and amended Nov. 1936] No person, association, copartnership, or corporation, shall promise, offer or give, for any purpose, to any political committee, or any member or employee thereof, to any candidate for, or incumbent of any office or position under the constitution or laws, or under any ordinance of any town or municipality, of this state, or to any person at the request or for the advantage of all or any of them, any free pass or frank, or any privilege withheld from any person, for the traveling accommodation or transportation of any person or property, or the transmission of any message or communication.

No political committee, and no member or employee thereof, no candidate for and no incumbent of any office or position under the constitution or laws, or under any ordinance of any town or municipality of this state, shall ask for, or accept, from any person, association, copartnership, or corporation, or use, in any manner, or for any purpose, any free pass or frank, or any privilege withheld from any person, for the traveling accommodation or transportation of any person or property, or the transmission of any message or communication.

Any violation of any of the above provisions shall be bribery and punished as provided by law, and if any officer or any member of the legislature be guilty thereof, his office shall become vacant.

No person within the purview of this act shall be privileged from testifying in relation to anything therein prohibited; and no person having so testified shall be liable to any prosecution or punishment for any offense concerning which he was required to give his testimony or produce any documentary evidence.

Notaries public and regular employees of a railroad or other public utilities who are candidates for or hold public offices for which the annual compensation is not more than three hundred dollars to whom no passes or privileges are extended beyond those which are extended to other regular employees of such corporations are excepted from the provisions of this section. [1899 J.R. 8, 1901 J.R. 9, 1901 c. 437, vote Nov. 1902; 1933 J.R. 63, 1935 J.R. 98, vote Nov. 1936]

The entire nation has heard Walker accept a "trip to Cali"

Travis-720185

If you people are jealous of government workers getting decent pay and benefits try it yourself. Oh, I forgot you are not qualified or are afraid to try it.

Agreed, These people have nothing but hate and spew garbage everyday. How is it that now the cops, teachers, firemen and nurses etc are the elites making too much money? We have corporate welfare and the top 2% get fatter and not one of these people see that we are allowing these robber barons to steal our country right before our eyes. You have to hand it tio the Repubs the brainwashing since Reagan has really worked to the detriment of middle class and the poor.

RC, WHAT QUALIFICATIONS are required to function in government as a gov. worker? Oh yes, when hired by the Gov. work begins at 8am, but you don't actually have to report until 10am, for the gov worker spends the first two hours BSing around the coffee pot.

My people MUST be versed and certified in several areas....I will put any of my folks against a gov worker anyday. And I pay 100% of their health costs too!

safecracker

My people MUST be versed and certified in several areas....I will put any of my folks against a gov worker anyday. And I pay 100% of their health costs too!

Really!?! So nurses and teachers and cops and firemen aren't certified? You are certifiable and a liar...do us all a favor and get off this board like you promised us

Unfortunately, despite how often the charge that there is some sort of wage bias on behalf of unions, procured through collective bargaining, the facts just don't bear out those accusations.

The facts become quite intriguing when data from the US Census is examined.

Teachers, along with all the other public employees are smack in the middle of the national average for their age and education:

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s0702.pdf

What seems to be the biggest problem here is not whether their wages are appropriate, but a collective dismay on the part of people with lesser education, experience or skill at having lower salaries and lesser benefits.

Public employees, overall are older and more educated than private employees to begin with...in fact the comparison of degrees held by public employees as opposed to private employees is about double. Since there is a definite difference in wages and benefits with advancing one's education, and always has been, one begins to wonder what the real issue is here. Why, for instance, is it about to become substantially more expensive to get a college education in Wisconsin? With jobs lost, in order to have the state's unemployed be prepared for new employment, it would be rational to have incentives to return to school, have retraining and upgrading of skills be more readily available and encouraged - especially if one is serious about attracting new employers.

...unless of course, one is intent on driving the state to the bottom of the wage scale, intent on prolonging a recession and intent on stealing people's homes out from under them by crashing family finances.

Suzen....

It may surprise you, but I mostly agree with you. I also agree when you say that something has to happen. It does.

Now, I may have to somewhat disagree with you about the causes... First of all, what really frosts my chaps, is the FACT that in the past several years (or decades), money budgeted to education has gone up faster than a hooker's skirt. If more money was the answer, we should have a nation of "Einsteins" and we don't. Now, my trouble with the public sector teacher's union, is that the automatic check-off that goes to the union boss(es) is making a lot of people very, very rich for actually not doing much except for keeping the members on a tight lease. And the work rules are such that a bad teacher will not be let go and also the good teachers cannot be "upgraded" because of the unfair seniority rules. All these dues, which mostly go to the democrat candidate, is tax money. At least in the private sector, it is corporate money.

Its not really the unions as much as it is that tax money is not being used to teach the children. I would like to see some competion in the K-12 system and make the public schools either improve or change into a private school. I'm all for a voucher system and I don't think we can do any worst, and there is a good chance, we will inprove.

Just Saying...

Bob:

Some more quotes from your hero:

"Trees cause more pollution than automobiles do." -- Ronald Reagan, 1981

"A tree is a tree. How many more do you have to look at?" -- Ronald Reagan, 1966, opposing expansion of Redwood National Park as governor of California

And one that's a bit more on point with your comment:

"We think there is a parallel between federal involvement in education and the decline in profit over recent years." -- Ronald Reagan, 1983.

All quotes from a true, as you put it, moonbat, who I was forced to see perform twice as a California native: When he was governor, and then as president. Both equally miserable performances, too, I might add.

bob

Would you please let me know what you would do to rectify the problems in public education. I agree just throwing money at something without a plan is stupid so what is the solution?

Thanks for the info, Kelley! I saw on the news out of the non-NBC affiliate out of Columbus that one senator had been replaced, ostensibly because he wasn't toeing the party line, although no reason was given, but they neglected to mention who it was. Now I can do some more investigation into this sorry mess that goes by the name of Republican governance in Ohio.

Well done!

Absoulutely. I saw that on MSNBC on the Ed Show. I read this article purposely to see if they mentioned it, but I'm not surprised they did not. Guess what, Fox News don't have the story period. The silence on corruption with the Rethuglicans won't get past MSNBC, my station of choice where the truth is exposed.

Jennifer:

There may be other definitions of that which you seek, and plutocracy may be one. I think this one fits, from Wikepedia:

""Fascism is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology. Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy."

One will note that in the political spectrum, the far left is described as communists (Stalin, etc.), while the far right is described as fascists (Hitler, etc.)

Although it also seems to fit Mr. Kasich. Much like it did the crew behind Mr. Bush II, since I don't think he has an inkling of what political persuasion he is, or wants to be.

So, JoeJacJoe, you then support the withdrawal of all Federal funding to the states that are union busting?