I gotta laugh at the moron Dems for this one. They refused to do their Constitutional duty last year and adopt a budget for the 2010-11 federal fiscal year that began on October 1, 2010. Instead, they kicked the can down the road and adopted a continuing resolution just before Christmas funding the govt through March 4, 2011.

EVERYONE in Washington knew about this deadline.

Now, as the deadline looms four days away, Barry, whose claim to fame is that he can walk and chew gum at the same time, wants to kick the can down the road another month.

Incompetent morons. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From Politico:

W.H. seeks to extend budget stopgap
By: David Rogers
February 28, 2011 08:51 PM EST

Showing the first signs of coming off the sideline, the White House made a late bid Monday to extend the life of a stopgap government funding bill to a full month and thereby allow more time for the administration to become engaged in the House-Senate talks.

The House is slated to vote Tuesday on a two week extension of the current continuing resolution due to expire this Friday, Mar. 4. The administration would instead like that to run a full 30 days, and this triggered a meeting Monday evening between Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) in the senator’s offices.

Neither man shed much light on the talks.

“I’m not going to discuss that tonight,” Reid told POLITICO. Boehner would say only that he was sticking with the two-week time frame of the bill filed last Friday by the House Appropriations Committee.

Louis J:

How true. Today is drop dead day in Wisconsin and the Congress is taking up the Budget issue. Should be an interesting day.

The fact that the Republicans want to kill so many jobs (NEARLY 1,000,000,000)

______________________________________________________

So, now the lefty liberals are accusing the Republicans of wanting to "kill 1 BILLION jobs"??

Are you sure it's not 1 GAZILLION??

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

I wonder if anyone on Governor Walker’s staff shared this news with him…

Or are they too busy bolting the windows shut in the Capital Building?

As the standoff in Wisconsin continues to escalate, a New York Times/CBS poll has found a majority of Americans oppose efforts to weaken public employee unions’ collective bargaining rights by a margin of 60 to 33 percent. Those surveyed also said they oppose (56 to 37 percent) cutting the pay or benefits of public employees to reduce deficits.

And it’s worth noting that the tax cuts Walker rammed through during his first month in office “will reduce general fund tax collections by $55.2 million in 2011-12 and $62.0 million in 2012-13.” It is simply irresponsible for Walker and his allies to continue to blame middle class Wisconsinites for his state’s modest budget woes while ignoring the tax dodging by the state’s special interests who continue to fail to pay their fair share.

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/03/01/thinkfast-march-1-2011/

A top priority Walker’s agenda today, is figuring out how to charge Democratic staff members for toilet paper by the sheet!

STAND UNITED Gang of 14!

Do NOT let this ‘right hand’ of the Koch Brothers balance his budget on the backs of the MIDDLE CLASS!

FR: And a brand-new New York Times/CBS poll shows that Walker may have picked the wrong fight on collective bargaining. “Americans oppose weakening the bargaining rights of public employee unions by a margin of nearly two to one: 60% to 33%.”

What answer did the New York Times/CBS poll get when they asked the question 'Do you support having your taxes raised to support the taxpayers paying for the pensions and benefits, pensions and benefits much better than you'll ever get, for the union workers in your state?' What? The New York Times/CBS poll didn't ask that question? Well, maybe they should have.

Joe in Albany,

"Kicked the can down the road", hey? New republican phrase of the month... originality is dead huh?

Is Frank Luntz on vacation, again???

Correction, 1,000,000 jobs. Glad the CR(ASS) Right Wingers find the humor in the dismantling of America. No surprises there.

The larger the Wiscon"SIN" Governor's ego swells, the larger the protest swells. He'll never get it.

SMH.

Is Frank Luntz on vacation, again???

Actually, No - he was on the Today Show this morning sharing the ‘buzz’ words used to hypnotize the uneducated masses?

For all appearances, it seems to be working! lol

What answer did the New York Times/CBS poll get when they asked the question 'Do you support having your taxes raised to support the taxpayers paying for the pensions and benefits, pensions and benefits much better than you'll ever get, for the union workers in your state?' What? The New York Times/CBS poll didn't ask that question? Well, maybe they should have.

JoannaSmith,

you pointed out 2 separate questions, and the unions and teachers, firefighters, first responders have said equivocally that they are willing to sacrifies some of their benefits to help balance the budget.... but gov. Walker wants that but to also destroy the unions for political gain. It's a clear a day and night to anyone not named JoannaSmith. So Joanna since the only question left about this bill is not balancing the budget but removal of collective bargaining and as you've said, the people don't want it.... "Can you republicans listen to the will or the people of just try to shove it down our throats?" and Frank Luntz told me yesterday.

Republicans were voted in, and the first thing they do is 'tax cut extension for the rich" when every poll says the American people do no agree with this... then in Wisconsin, the Gov cries about budget then asks public workers to take pay cuts - which the people say OK, but would like to be able to bargain in the future. But Walker says no... Imagine, the rich got tax cut from both the federal government and the state... but the public workers are getting shafted big time... .

Good morning Feisty

I wonder if anyone on Governor Walker’s staff shared this news with him…

Or are they too busy bolting the windows shut in the Capital Building?

That is the 64 thousand dollar question (pun intended) and a great question you pose. Scott Walker is a disgrace to the office of governorship in Wisconsin.

By 60 to 33; that's a solid majority of Americans who are saying no to Gov. Scott Walker.

Since that's the case, Gov. Scott Walker should realize those numbers are not a prank.

It's time for the dumb@aa governor to change plans to gut collective bargaining of public employees I'd say.

Feisty:

If you cannot control what is being said (the protesters) then you take their platform away, lock up the capital building. Right out of Karl Rove. This is more and more starting to look like a country we saw back in WWII every day.

Joanna, they did not bother to read the poll.in a country where just 12% of the populace is represented by a union, (private sector and public worker COMBINED), this poll had a pool of 20% private sector union household, and 25% public worker union households.

Given the bias of the pool, it can safely be concluded that they either have pollsters who failed statistics, or that they deliberately skewed the pool in order to get the results they wanted.

Which is it, do you believe?

This article re-confirms the political facts facing Republicans hijacked by a handful of Tea Party officeholders:

- Voters in November issued "orders" to get along and get the work done ... not, as Richard Morris said yesterday on Faux News, refuse, refuse, refuse to make concessions and obstruct the government

- Voters in November issued a "mandate, " yes, but NOT one to put some 700,000 more out of work - nope, rather to put more Americans BACK to work ...Where are the JOBS, GOP House Majority?

- A relative handful of voters, 22% according to Election Day exit polls, supported the kind of rigid ideological positions the GOP has now allowed the Tea Party to pursue

In Wisconsin, the governor's position has already not only cost him public support locally, but is having resonance across the nation.

"Listen to the people," cried the demonstrators in 2009 and 2010. Well, YEAH, DO "listen to the peopole," Republicans and right-wing ideologues. They're telling you loud and clear you AREN'T listening!

Glad the CR(ASS) Right Wingers find the humor in the dismantling of America.

_____________________________________________________

Nah, what I find humor in is that some people don't know the difference between 1,000,000,000 and 1,000,000.

Who says Americans are falling behind the rest of the world in math skills??

"kick the can down the road" is our Presidents doing. He said it and he did it. And all his party members in Congress helped him. Time for real change and we are seeing it. And it really has the lefties crying and running scared. Not just running scared but running and hiding. Gotta love it.

JoAnnaSmith1

What answer did the New York Times/CBS poll get when they asked the question 'Do you support having your taxes raised to support the taxpayers paying for the pensions and benefits, pensions and benefits much better than you'll ever get, for the union workers in your state?' What? The New York Times/CBS poll didn't ask that question? Well, maybe they should have.

leave it up to you to twist a poll to your weird liking, Joanna follow the poll don't try and elaborate on what the question should have been to make you feel good, the question was about collective bargaining rights, Joanna not every is a stupid as scott walker to think its a good thing to take this away. and i bet if the question your wanted asked would by 60-33% for making them pay for there own pensions and health care. that is not the Issue, Joanna.

Basic rights i guess a person of privilege like you does not need, but 60% to 33% says they do.

I bet that poll was given to seniors that were in unions and worked to get the things the public employees have now, hell yes they think it wrong, and i saw another poll that shows the same people don't want SS and Medicaid screwed with, they want changes made but not to them. yes they went to the polls and put the republuicans in but as we see they did not put them there to take away rights it took them years to work for. Scott walker have become his worse enemy,

US Navy, How is this like WW11?

Sure, John. It is obvious that the democrats have the ear of the people. They prove this by taking it on the lam when they cannot win.

Think this GAO report will solidify support for the federal spending that Obama seems to think will return us to prosperity? Personally, I think the howls from the electorate will be deafening- and Obama's increasing the number of federal employees is not the answer to the level of redundancy in the government.

It needs to be cut. Now. Deeply and permanently. Entire departments- heck, entire agencies- need to be closed down.

With the electorate focused on the deficit, I think you are going to see action. No amount of whining from the left is going to stop it.

Why negotiate with fat cat democrat union bosses who just want to maintain THEIR power by FORCED deductions of $$$ thousands from bank accounts of ALL government union members STRAIGHT to DEMOCRAT REELECTION CAMPAIGNS?

Joanna, they did not bother to read the poll

These polls are just the media attempting to insert themselves into the process. The New York Times and CBS are fully behind the unions, so they run a poll that on the surface supports their position. The Liberals love it, but anyone with a brain, and that excludes the Liberals, that looks into the details of the poll immediately finds the bias.

The same thing happened yesterday when "economist" Mark Zandi claimed 700,000 jobs would be lost if the Republican cuts to the budget were enacted. What the story didn't tell you was 1) Zandi also said $400 billion needs to be reduced from the budget year-over-year and 2) Zandi was one of the economist that advised the Obama economic team that the Obama Stimulus would produce 4 million jobs.

Zandi also said "Too much cutting too soon would be counterproductive," Zandi writes in his report. But later, he adds that "much greater cuts will be needed, along with tax increases, to address the nation's daunting long-term fiscal challenges." But the Liberals didn't hear that side of the story.

Feisty:

And they are misleading at best again. Looks like they are running out of material.

Madison, glad to see you ate your breakfast of crunchy propagande, but darnit, why did you have to toss it back up on the table here?

1. The unions in Wisconsin are VOLUNTARY. They do not make FORCED payment of dues, the members choose to do so when they join.

2. Contributions to union political action committees are VOLUNTARY AND NOT TAKEN FROM UNION DUES.

3. Union executives are ELECTED BY THE MEMBERS.

Just another swoop and poop visit by the spite-driven screech owl.

JoAnnaSmith1

These polls are just the media attempting to insert themselves into the process. The New York Times and CBS are fully behind the unions, so they run a poll that on the surface supports their position. The Liberals love it, but anyone with a brain, and that excludes the Liberals, that looks into the details of the poll immediately finds the bias.

so new York Times and CBS are liberal loving union people.

OHA MY GOD.

HEY EVERY BODY JOANNA IS JIMMY AND HE DOES NOT LIKE THEY WAY WE PLAY BY THE RULES SO HE IS TAKING IS BALL AND GOING HOME. I'M TELLING MY MOMA!!!!

TA: you pointed out 2 separate questions, and the unions and teachers, firefighters, first responders have said equivocally that they are willing to sacrifies some of their benefits to help balance the budget.... but gov. Walker wants that but to also destroy the unions for political gain.

Embellish much? Gov. Walker has unequivocal said he does not want to destroy the unions. In fact, the state union would continue have more power to bargin than the federal union workers.

Some loon hit the caps key and said: "HEY EVERY BODY JOANNA IS JIMMY AND HE DOES NOT LIKE THEY WAY WE PLAY BY THE RULES SO HE IS TAKING IS BALL AND GOING HOME. I'M TELLING MY MOMA!!!!"

No, that would be the Senate Democrats in Indiana and Wisconsin who said "We're going to lose this vote, and we're sold out to the unions, and the unions told us to run away, so we did."

President Obama has said often that every segment of government should be examined to eliminate duplication of effort and that eliminating these overlapping functions could save millions. Senator Coburn is right, the nonpartisan Congressional report proves legislators to be "jackasses". There are simple fixes to help solve the nation's deficit problem without costing 700,000 jobs but instead it was easier to just use an ax rather than a scalpel, easier to target a party's pet "hates" than use common sense. "Jackasses" is an appropriate description of legislators who seem to have lost sight of what it means to legislate in their pursuit to simply slash and burn.

Looks like they are running out of material.

No Kidding Navy!

Tired old reruns is all they've got left!

They were 'flops' the first dozen times they aired!

I have noticed they're a bit more belligerent than usual this week - we must be doing something right! ;o)

Walker has unequivocal said he does not want to destroy the unions

Talk is cheap JoAnna, you of ALL people should know that!

Attention All Cliche Slingers;

Your cliches are becoming....cliche...:)

TA: "Kicked the can down the road", hey? New republican phrase of the month...

TA, President Obama has said he understands the deficit is a major problem, and has also said that he would challenge Congress to come with plans to reduce the deficit. Recently President Obama has put forth his 2012 budget that includes another world record spending plan with a deficit of $1.65 Trillion dollars. Do you regard President Obama's plan as a serious attempt to reduce the deficit? Or do you believe he has 'Kicked the can down the road'?

Jody, Iowa: President Obama has said often that every segment of government should be examined to eliminate duplication of effort and that eliminating these overlapping functions could save millions.

And yet President Obama has just submitted a budget that includes a $1.65 trillion dollars in deficit spending. Do you think Mr. Obama reduced his budget by going through and eliminating duplicate and overlapping functions? And if so, how much do you think Obama's budget would have been if he had not?

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Walker has unequivocal said he does not want to destroy the unions

Talk is cheap JoAnna, you of ALL people should know that!

Feisty, can you believe her, i know yes you can, scott walker, No Jo, Joe in albany, Bob, Steve and Joanna and 33% of american thinks scott walker is not trying to bust the unions, but you, me, Jody, Carla, John, navy, bev and 60% of americans thinks he is, feisty guess who i believe.

this is like Nixon coming on TV back in the Day to say he is Not a crock, Fesity the majorty of americans did not believe him either. Scott Walker is the NEW Nixon.

i see where he is cutting 700 million from Education.

Feisty, can you believe her

Uh... NO!

I wouldn't believe ANY of them Jeff, if their tongues came notarized! Their track record of either distorting the truth out out right lying speaks volumes as to their character!

If you're willing to lie over the smallest things - it means they possess no boundaries or moral compass!

Which is why they will remain in the minority for a long long time! People are waking up to the deception that's spread via Teapublicans!

On another note: I walked Thurgood Marshall Sunday on HBO - it was phenomenal! Lawrence Fishburn (sp?) was amazing!

Feisty & Jeff:

Actions speak louder than words. Walker is a Union Busting thug no matter how he tries to lie about it. Just look to the deeds and then follow the money.

Why negotiate with fat cat democrat union bosses who just want to maintain THEIR power by FORCED deductions of $$$ thousands from bank accounts of ALL government union members STRAIGHT to DEMOCRAT REELECTION CAMPAIGNS?

Madison from NY - you are not only delusional, you are wrong, at least in the case of WI:

Upon receipt of a voluntary written individual order therefore from any of its employees covered by this Agreement on forms presently being provided by the Union, the Employer will deduct from the pay due such employee those dues required as the employee’s membership in the Union.

SEIU Collective Bargaining Contract Section 2.2.1.A See for yourself: http://oser.state.wi.us/docview.asp?docid=6998

Upon receipt of a voluntary written individual order from any of its employees covered by this Agreement on forms presently being provided by the Union, the Employer will deduct from the pay due such employee those dues required as the employee’s membership in the Union. A list of all employees from whose pay dues have been deducted shall be sent to the appropriate local with that local’s dues deduction check. At the same time, a copy of said list of employees shall also be sent to Council 24.

AFCME Collective bargaining Contract Section 2.2.1 - see for yourself: http://www.wseu-24.org/Contracts%20and%20Constitutions/2007-2009%20wseu%20contract.pdf

These are Collective bargaining Contracts in WI. I am sure that someone will do some research into the Collective bargaining Agreements in NY.

You have made a sweeping statement that dues are FORCED. I have proven you wrong with just two of the MANY Collective Bargaining agreements that WI has.

Care to rephrase your assertion, Madison??

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

On another note: I walked Thurgood Marshall Sunday on HBO - it was phenomenal! Lawrence Fishburn (sp?) was amazing!

Now fesity after watching that and listioning to the casses he argues and how important he was to civil rights 25 years before Martin Luther King, he was the greatest lawyer ever, doesn't it piss you off to see Clarence Thomas. No jo just does not understand the hatred i have for Clarence Thomas, but after watching thrugood, can you see where I'm coming from.

no joe, no bo, nj, JoannaSmith,

Guys, guys, guys... then why point out a poll that doesn't support your claim? And then to now discredit it when someone actually points out the poll supports the opposite opinion....lol you guys are too funny...

JoannaSmith1: TA, President Obama has said he understands the deficit is a major problem, and has also said that he would challenge Congress to come with plans to reduce the deficit. Recently President Obama has put forth his 2012 budget that includes another world record spending plan with a deficit of $1.65 Trillion dollars. Do you regard President Obama's plan as a serious attempt to reduce the deficit? Or do you believe he has 'Kicked the can down the road'?

Everyone knows we have a budget problem, but the problem is that no one is really talking about how to truly address it.... Social Security, Medicare needed to be gutted and taxes increased, teachers fired or salaries slashed... at least until the GDP starts to significantly rise and tax revenues along with it... until then, "everyone is kicking the can down the road" LOL... I'm liking that phrase... oh no I'm a republican....

JoAnna Smith. The President recognizes that cutting spending too quickly as the nation recovers from a near Great Depression is just bad policy and even worse economic policy. Too bad republicans lack the gene that provides comprehension of facts as well as understanding economics. The deficit and the debt pose a long-term problem but solving them in the short-term by cutting spending and causing loss of more jobs will ultimately cost more economically than is gained by the $61 billion in cuts the GOP proposes. The goal of the Federal Government today should be to continue spending to prevent another recession; it seems the goal of the GOPTP is to halt economic growth in its tracks in the name of cuts that will have minimal impact on the deficit and maximum impact on slowing economic growth.

Good one Pietro.... I'm sure Madison,NY will just digress and not agree with you....

BTW, can my republican friends tell me how removing Collective Bargaining help reduce the budget??

Navy Disabled: Actions speak louder than words. Walker is a Union Busting thug no

Well, it certainly looks like Governor Walker has hit the Liberals where it hurts the most, the unions. It's pretty much all the Liberals have left, the unions own the Democratic party, and that's why we see the Democrats having such a spasm over this issue. Obama is trying to insert himself into the conversation, first by calling Walker's actions an "assault" on the unions, and yesterday Obama timidly tapped dance around the issue with the governors. Obama knows this is losing argument, to have taxpayers pay for the elite union pensions and benefits is not a winning position for Obama. The Democrats/unions will lose this confrontation.

And yet President Obama has just submitted a budget that includes a $1.65 trillion dollars in deficit spending.

I suppose the president could take the cost of the two unnecessary and unfunded wars out of the budget. That oughta make you happy, right?

TA: Everyone knows we have a budget problem, but the problem is that no one is really talking about how to truly address it.... Social Security, Medicare needed to be gutted and taxes increased, teachers fired or salaries slashed... at least until the GDP starts to significantly rise and tax revenues along with it...

On that we agree. So why did President Obama completely ignore his Debt Commission report when he produced his 2012 budget?

You people need to read or look at something that has some semblance of truth in it. Other than WAPO, huffpo,nbc,cbs,abc,bps,and other liberal garbage spreaders/

Now fesity after watching that and listioning to the casses he argues and how important he was to civil rights 25 years before Martin Luther King,

Jeff - It was more than informative, it was a mesmerizing walk down history lane! My husband came downstairs about half way through and asked what I was watching, I told him and he said oh!

Stood there for a couple of minutes and decided he should sit down and watch the rest. We both had tears in our eyes at the end!

As for Thomas - he's not worthy to shine Thurgood's shoes! And neither is his tea bagger wife Ginny! Nothing but a couple of sell out those two are!

I suppose the president could take the cost of the two unnecessary and unfunded wars out of the budget.

Sure, go ahead. The cost estimates for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are $165 billion for 2011. Taking the same from Obama 2012 budget would reduce his budget deficit from $1.65 Trillion to $1.48 Trillion dollars.

Source: http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2010-05-12-afghan_N.htm

Doesn't look that much better, does it? So do you think Obama is making a responsible choice by packing his 2012 budget with so much deficit spending?

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL

Jeff - It was more than informative, it was a mesmerizing walk down history lane! My husband came downstairs about half way through and asked what I was watching, I told him and he said oh!

Stood there for a couple of minutes and decided he should sit down and watch the rest. We both had tears in our eyes at the end!

I saw it last thursday while the Bulls were Playing miami on TNT i said screw the bulls i can see that any time, and watched that, i did not move for over a hour, it had me locked in. yes he was a womaniser after his wife died in 1952, he was a drinking man, he loved to play craps, but he was the best lawyer ever. Clarence thomas should watch that but i know ginny will not let him.

Trailer trash and a old black goat.

JoAnnaSmith1

I suppose the president could take the cost of the two unnecessary and unfunded wars out of the budget.

Sure, go ahead. The cost estimates for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are $165 billion for 2011. Taking the same from Obama 2012 budget would reduce his budget deficit from $1.65 Trillion to $1.48 Trillion dollars.

No Joanna take the cost out from the beginning in 2002, along with medicade part D, then we will have our surplus back.

The ignorance of the right is beyond unbelievable. The notion that if a right is not spelled out specifically in the United States Constitution that it doesn't exist clearly shows how little they understand.

Particularly where Wisconsin is concerned first one should take note of the fact that the U.S. Constitution clearly states that any powers and authorities not reserved for the federal government rest with the individual states, states which then have the authority to enact pretty much whatever legislation they might chose to so long as those laws are not in violation of people's rights that are enshrined in the U.S. Constitution.

Among the many laws propagated by the state of Wisconsin are a whole host of laws that fall under the heading of Fair Labor Practices some of those laws specifically state that the state's Governor or his/her representatives shall bargain in good faith with the public unions.

Since Gov. Walker has not only refused to bargain in good faith but has refused to sit down at the table with union reps whatsoever he is violating the protections and rights of the members of the public unions as they are embodied in Wisconsin's own state laws. Its really just that simple unless of course you a simple minded person in which case there are some courses available to those who seek to become U.S. Citizens that you might find enlightening.

Brian E: PA;

Welcome back to another day.

Fiesty:

Who are you to call a black man a sell-out?

I'm quite sure Jeff will call Thomas everything you wish you could call him and not be labeled a racist.

Both are great blackmen that achieved something that not many probably will ever achieve. No matter what you feel about Thomas; he hasn't decided one case that has led to he denegration of the black community. The black community has been in a tailspin before Thomas was assigned to the highest court and will probably continue long after he is gone.

If Thomas was white and a Liberal I bet you would think different of him. You just don't like the fact the man is a Republican and married to a white woman. He is considered an uppity-n.....r in your circle. I know, your best friend is black.

InTheMiddle,TX: The black community has been in a tailspin before Thomas was assigned to the highest court and will probably continue long after he is gone.

Sheeessshhh.... I know you were trying to defend ur buddy Thomas.... but that sentence was out of line. I agree with most of what you say, but to paint a gloom of doom picture of the black community illustrates what is wrong with America today. You judge before you see the before you think~!

There is no common ground between people that want prosperity (Democrats) and people that want destruction (Republicans). For there to be common ground between these two groups would be same as a fire (Republicans) asking a piece of ice (Democrats) to sit in the pan promising it won't melt. Maybe if the Republicans turned off the stove we would consider it, but since it's obvious that the fire is still on we'd rather stay cool on improving the situation in America.

:^/)

IntheMiddle, TX

If Thomas was white and a Liberal I bet you would think different of him. You just don't like the fact the man is a Republican and married to a white woman. He is considered an uppity-n.....r in your circle. I know, your best friend is black.

First of all i don't care what color his wife is, i really don't. i don't care if he is a conservative, i really don't. what pisses me off is the ruling he wrote in a case where he wanted to turn Brown verses Board of Ed back, it pisses me off that he is now against affirmative action programs, but he used there programs to get into Yale. he is a sell out, for those two things alone.

he was a grabage pick for the high court, Bush 1 knew it, and did not care.

My Daughter is married to a white man, so i color does not bother me, what about you.

IntheMiddle, TX

Fiesty:

Who are you to call a black man a sell-out

,

Before you get so self absorbed, let me lay this on you my sweets.

You don't need to be my color to be my kind. you represent more racist, birther, views than any Black person. Let this be a words of Wisdom you are not my kind. Feisty is.

@ Jeff-1541632

Jeff you watch this movies on line at pbs; at least until the repubs defund it.

Joanna, they did not bother to read the poll.in a country where just 12% of the populace is represented by a union, (private sector and public worker COMBINED), this poll had a pool of 20% private sector union household, and 25% public worker union households.

Given the bias of the pool, it can safely be concluded that they either have pollsters who failed statistics, or that they deliberately skewed the pool in order to get the results they wanted.

NoJoe, you are absolutely incorrect. I DID read the poll results. It said that 20% of the respondents had A private sector union employee in the household and 25% had A public (NOT UNION) worker in the household. You twisted the number of 12% (which is true of WORKERS, not HOUSEHOLDS, and 12.4% to boot) being in a union into suggesting that the poll was biased. If one was to assume that there is, on average, more than one worker per household (maybe 1.5 workers per household?), the bias is negligible if you compare the 12% to the calculated (about 13%). Even if you assume that that extra 1% was entirely biased toward union rights, it would only affect the margin by 1%, which would not affect the results in any meaningful way. It is possible that it's biased, though unlikely since the two people that came up with the poll represent both major political parties, and the numbers look clean. You just don't like what it said. Way to be an exemplary Republican. That is, by exemplary, I mean representative of the misrepresentation.

Jeff:

You feed right into what people like Fiesty want you to feed into. If I didn't like Thomas no one in here would ever know it. Enough said.

Beverly:

You are so right, I am not like you. I haven't sat on my azz complaining about how the evil white racist Republicans have kept me down and took everything away from me. I have served this country, retired, and still working to maintain a higher living standard for MY family. I work within the black community EVERYDAY to help the less fortunate have a voice to speak to these lowsy representatives. Just because I vote Republican, I do not forget where I came from.

Just because I vote Republican, I do not forget where I came from.

No, you just forget where you are. Texas: no pubiic unions, first in deficits, last in education, and loving it.

Try to remember it before you preach to the rest of us about what government should or shouldn't do.

Scott Walker: Closed to people. Open to business.

Joanna:

On that we agree. So why did President Obama completely ignore his Debt Commission report when he produced his 2012 budget?

And why did Paul Ryan ignore it when producing HIS vision?

Don't tell me that Ryan has a political agenda, too, JoAnna. Here I thought that was just democrats.

Sacred illusions shattered much.

Scott Walker: Closed to people. Open for business.

AM: And why did Paul Ryan ignore it when producing HIS vision?

Congresses 2012 budget isn't coming out until April, so it's unclear how you know anything about Ryan's vision. Or do you have inside knowledge of what the Republicans will propose?

And please, do answer the question, do you think Obama's 2012 budget with the $1.65 trillion deficit was valid attempt by Obama to address the deficit problem? Or would answering that question shatter your sacred illusions of Obama?

IntheMiddle, TX

Jeff:

You feed right into what people like Fiesty want you to feed into. If I didn't like Thomas no one in here would ever know it. Enough said.

All this started when No jo complained that thomas was singled out becasue he is a black consertave and married to a white woman. but as i tried to tell her that that had nothing to do with it. i told her about his ruling and that were so far over the top on the issuse of race, and his wanting to get rid of the very programs that got him where he is today.

you said,

I work within the black community EVERYDAY to help the less fortunate have a voice to speak to these lowsy representatives. Just because I vote Republican, I do not forget where I came from.

you are alot like me, i don't always vote democratic, and i call my self a consertavie liberal, i just like you have not fotgotten when i came from and the men before me that had made life better for me than my dad and grandfather had. i menetion to No jo that my uncles took advantage of the same programs in the late 60s that clarence thomas has and they unlike Thomas have not forgotten where they came from or the men before him. my uncle John served in vietman during the tet offensive, he was a grunt, and after he survived the service he went back to school and and just like thomas he finished school and went on to better things, but he did not forget.

this is where i have a big problem with him. now when it comes to his wife and her political activities, there must be a seperation that he is not giving a dam about, the media is still trying to find out if a trip he and his wife made 2 years ago was at the expence of a politican operative that is against the rules of being on the high court. i don't see John Roberts doing this, nor did i see sardra O'Connor doing this either as well as the other justices. he is cheaping the high court and as President Obama said during the campiagn, the only justice he would like to see off the court is clarence Thomas, Not Justice Roberts who he did not vote for during conformation hearings.

I challenge you to watch thrugood, it may not change your view of clarence thomas but maybe you will see he is not Highcourt stock.

IntheMiddle, TX

Beverly:

You are so right, I am not like you. I haven't sat on my azz complaining about how the evil white racist Republicans have kept me down and took everything away from me. I have served this country, retired, and still working to maintain a higher living standard for MY family. I work within the black community EVERYDAY to help the less fortunate have a voice to speak to these lowsy representatives. Just because I vote Republican, I do not forget where I came from.

IntheMiddle, TX

So what makes you think I sat my ass watching the clouds go by?

Whatever, you doing in the Black community; if it is maintaing republican political ideology, it is no value!!

Feisty, didn't bait me in. I knew about Uncle Clarence Thomas before I ever heard of you or Feisty.

In regards to complaining about the evil white racist Republicans have kept me down and took everything away from me; there is a vast difference between complaining and doing something about it.

That's why I don't vote Republican.

A Brief Thank-You:

The number of people protesting the Governor Walker's efforts to destroy collective bargaining rights for public employees has significantly increased in the last several days. Governor Walker has now shut down (closed) the State House: the house of the people of Wisconsin. Yet all the while the crowds of protesters have remained non-violent.

The "Thank-You" is for the leaders of the demonstrations who are following in the foot-steps of Mohandas Gandhi and Martin Luther King. Non-violent civil disobedience is the path that gave independence to India and civil rights to American minorities. The power of peaceful demonstration is more powerful than guns and in the end the protesters will defeat Governor Walker and the Republican Senators who are march-stepping with the governor. Americans all across the country are in support of your efforts.

@Bryan E., PA

Welcome to the mud pit. A place to duck when the opposition slings mud at you and a place to throw a little mud yourself. The Dew Drop Inn is where the cool kids hang out to cuss and discuss politics. A place where we support the hard work of middle-class Americans.

I encourage you to keep writing.

Ron:

Ditto. Both Egypt and Wisconsin have demonstrated that you can have protest that are civil, no violence, nobody getting their necks stomp on, very few arrests etc.

Bryan E: PA, nice job yesterday and come back and visit often.

Navy: Woops...I left out Egypt. Let's include Egypt.

Good morning, gentlemen. The economists I've seen interviewed lately have made a lot of sense---they say that it is important to address the deficit but not right now---even if it adds to the deficit now, get the economy on firmer ground, grow jobs more and then take on the deficit. It makes sense to me---budget cuts mean job cuts and at a time when there aren't a lot of places that are hiring. It took us 8 years to get into the economic situation we are in and it could take as long to get out. It happened before during the Clinton years.

Having another bad day Navy Disabled? They are starting to stack up.

In short these GOP/TP Spending Cuts (in addition to the fact that all the sacrifice is placed on the backs of the Middle Class) will:

List of lies deleted.

Listen ND, you can't deficit spend your way to prosperity. You Libs will never learn.

Steeler Fan:

That is very true. While we agree that we do need spending cuts to get the deficit under control, we are going about it in the wrong way. We are on a path to cause more problems than we will solve in the long run. Which opens the door for an even worse recession down the road, one we may not be able to get out of any time soon. And everybody is going to feel this one, big time.

Maybe that is what it will take for the politicians and the people to wake up and realize what is going on today will effect everybody, republicans, democrats, tea party, independents. All of us.

US Navy Disabled Veteran - Retired

I still am of the opinion neither side is really serious yet as they are both leaving cuts on the table. Cutting just social programs will not work in the long run, especially in a market that has a weak economy to offset them, and will cost us hundreds of thousands of jobs, increase unemployment, , put more people on the unemployment rolls and Medicaid, reduce revenues and increase the deficit and stall the economy”.

I couldn't agree with you more.

I believe, since thhat’s the case, ways should be found to reduce the deficit but not "on the backs of the most vulnerable.

Frankly speaking, I'm tried of listening to the orgy of lazy, double-talking shills for corporate interests; especially John Boehnor.

BTW: Republicans trying to destroy President Obama and Americans unlike them want the average person to eat their tails.

JoAnnaSmith1

Listen ND, you can't deficit spend your way to prosperity. You Libs will never learn.

What did you learn from all that non spending the Republicans did to create jobs while in office? Nothing; right?

You know, I get so tired of the rights argument to have smaller government, cut spending and the American People have spoken. It’s all bull crap. First of all the United State is not a country that can operate with small government.

We need a big government to manage the events going on here in our country while keeping our eyes on the events around the world that can affect us all. The problem we have is that we have to manage big government a heck of a lot better then we are currently doing so now.

It was proven by FDR that we have to spend money within our country for growth. So, where do you cut spending? To listen to the right it is social programs and cut taxes. Well, again more bull crap. We have the super rich and the dirt poor, with the middle class being pushed to the category of the dirt poor and well the rich get richer, with their perks and level low taxes they pay.

As Steeler Fan pointed out, “budget cuts mean job cuts and at a time when there aren't a lot of places that are hiring. “

And still we have the argument that the American People have spoken. Well the American people spoke in 2008 and President Obama won the White House.

Then you look at the 2010 election and you really can’t say that the majority of the American people have spoken considering that only 37% of eligible voters turned out for 2010 US election day compared to 56.8% of eligible voters turned out for 2008 US election day.

Could the new mantra be, spend baby spend.

US Navy, Ron well said. The spending cuts to social problems will actually end up causing even more expensive problems in the future. A penny spent to provide assistance toward education or health care, food stamps, and similar programs is a dollar saved in the future--a better education means better jobs and higher incomes; health care early prevents more expensive health problems in the future; food stamps mean children do not go hungry.

Bryan E. Welcome to First Read, you did a great job yesterday.

Ron and US Navy,

Thanks for the welcome. I like mud and am not afraid to get my hands dirty, as you may have already guessed. You, LouisJ, Bev, Fiesty, et. al are fighting the good fight. Proud to join the ranks.

Thanks for bringing this up, USN. What we have here is Republicans making the same mistake in 2011 that they made in 1937. It was then that they drummed up hysteria over the deficit, forcing FDR to balance the budget rapidly, before the economy was at a place where the fledgeling recovery would be self sustaining. Republican Conservatives can certainly be excused for not knowing better in the 1930s, when Economics was much more poorly understood. Now it's simply being blinded by ideology.

When even CONSERVATIVE Economists are disputing the policies of the GOPTP it's time for a new policy.

Proud to join the ranks.

And we're proud to have you! Thanks for the kind words Bryan!

Bryan:

We are gald to have you aboard and thank you for your kind words.

"you can't spend your way to prosperity".

yet you can tax cut your way to prosperity? As my republican ex-president calls it.... Voo-doo economics.

BTW, great post USN...thanks for always reminding us of the good fight; and we shall fight for the people as long as we still have breaths within our lungs...as we now see that certain republican representatives (aka Scott Walker) have sold their souls to the Koch brothers....

JoAnnaSmith1

Having another bad day Navy Disabled? They are starting to stack up.

In short these GOP/TP Spending Cuts (in addition to the fact that all the sacrifice is placed on the backs of the Middle Class) will:

List of lies deleted.

Listen ND, you can't deficit spend your way to prosperity. You Libs will never learn.

Show me a report that disproves my post #2. Everything is accurate, and I noticed you did not have the guts to put up the list did ya.

JS1 you are probably one of the biggest liars on this board lately. You have been caught in a couple already today, the moderators have even called you out on your lies. My post stands as written. Prove it wrong.

And while you are at it shows us a report from any leading economist that says just cuttingspending alone will solve all the problems of this country. Most (both republican and democrats) claim they do not, and my post is in alignment with that. Show us a report that lists the sacrifices that the Corporations and Rich are putting on the table.

Your are one repugant lady in calling other people liars. I am not the one lying here, you are, again.

Job1,

You make a good point when you say the people made a choice in '08. If you truly believe this, than remember the citizens of WI voted to remove Democratic control of the Governors office and both legislative branches. Walker ran on the platform of drastic cuts and he showed this during his 8 years as Milwaukee County Exec. So based on your statement, he is doing the peoples business.

Now, you can make a point that changing collective barganing agreements on non-economic issues is not being done correctly or should not be done at all, but make your argument on that fact.

The reality is that he is trying to create a system that allows the State, Counties and local Municipalities to better control work rules and become more efficient. The more efficient government can become, the better it can control local costs. Is this not what everyone should be trying to accomplish?

The state of WI still spends about 1/2 of its budget on education and about 1/3 on medical costs, ie Badger Care, Medicaid and Medicare, but as we have a budget deficit of about $137 Million dollars something has to give. Some will say that the Gov gave tax breaks to the rich, in fact, the tax breaks are for companies that bring jobs into WI.

I don't much care for the way the Gov. is going about this, but when the Republicans kept saying no to proposals from the Democrats, the Dems labeled them as the party of "no". At least they stayed on the job and did not hide. The Dems passed a good number of bills during the first 2 years under the Pres., much to the chagrin of Rebs, why is it now acceptable for Dems in WI to stop the Govt just because they don't like what is going on.

Navy Disabled, you have really lost your ability to think and reason. You have a baseless source, so called economist Mark Zandi, that has been proven wrong. Zandi of course was the economist that advised the Obama economic team on the stimulus (you left that part out) , and stated that stimulus would produce 4 million jobs. He was wrong, it didn't. He's been discredited. And now he comes up with a 700,000 job loss number, and you went for the bait. How does any reasonable person believe what Zandi is saying? You don't even question the number, you took it hook, line, and sinker. So Zandi, and you, have zero credibility. None.

Zandi also said long term spending must be cut by $400 billion a year. You left that part out too. So you construct your own little world of lies, fabrications, misrepresentations, and misinformation and try to pass it off as fact. Gutless. No one is buying what you're trying to sell my friend. At least no one that takes the time to look into Zandi's past.

so called economist Mark Zandi, that has been proven wrong.

Would that be the same 'so called' economist who was chief economic advisor the the John McCain campaign?

So what you're saying is, it was another brilliant 'choice' made by McCain? lmao!

You of ALL people, have some nerve missy calling someone gutless!

TA: BTW, great post USN...thanks for always reminding us of the good fight; and we shall fight for the people as long as we still have breaths within our lungs

The good fight? But Democrats are cowards. When the going gets tough, they run away. They run to other states and show up on tv newscasts from "undisclosed locations" whining about how hard it is for them that they are running out of clean underwear. The good fight, more like the good flight. Democrats are losers, cowards, gutless obstructionists. They don't like the results of an election, they run. The good fight. What a laugh.

JS1:

The democrats are not the cowards here. They put their careers on the line for what they believe in, Governor Walker locks up the Capital building, the GOP holds a meeting in the middle of the night, which Walker promised not to do, denying many democrats a chance to vote. That is being a COWARD. Also that report by the past economic advisor to John McCain ia also born out by such groups as CBPP, CBO, Krugman, Klein and a bevy of others. Just because you do not like what one says they are in your mind not a reliable souce. Google it. You are the one you does not live in reality and sense you cannot disputes the facts, since you did not provide any proof to your aligations other than your opinion, you call me a liar just because I have a different opinion. I think NOT, it is you again that is lying.

TA: Your post is right on the money. Keep telling the truth and ignore the mushrooms that have infected this board.

Navy Disabled: The democrats are not the cowards here.

Cowards, every last one of them. If these Democratci senators want to fight, they can present and debate their points on the floor of the state Senate. If they lose the subsequenct vote, they can take it up next year when there is another election. And to support these actions by these cowards is beyond the pale. Either these Democrats want to participate in democracy, or they don't. It appears they've chosen the latter.

And where are those 4 million jobs Zandi predicted Navy? The facts, they are not on you side.

Thanks USN...

JoannaSmith1, These 14 democrats are doing the right thing.... if they weren't in other states, then Walker would have won by now.... no amount of Debate is changing Walker's mind... and these 14 senators have won because the debate is still going on strong (ala you arguing on here today)... because of these 14 senators, walker's poll numbers are sliding and public opinion is now against Walker's bill...

Cowards, every last one of them. If these Democratci senators want to fight, they can present and debate their points on the floor of the state Senate. If they lose the subsequenct vote, they can take it up next year when there is another election. And to support these actions by these cowards is beyond the pale. Either these Democrats want to participate in democracy, or they don't. It appears they've chosen the latter.

Imagine, that lil crook talking to Fake Koch about a vacation in California or that he thought about using trouble makers in this peaceful protest.... against teachers, firefighters and other first responders. What kind of a man is Walker when he's thinking about firing workers just because he does not like Collective Bargaining...and then planning on going for a vacation in CA with a Koch brother? What about Walker asking fake Koch about help with ads in his state... if nothing else, WALKER IS A CROOK AND NOT A FRIEND TO THE LIL GUYS.... .FOR THAT I SAY "KEEP THE FIGHT STRONG" GANG OF 14. WE APPRECIATE YOU AROUND THE COUNTRY~!!!!

TA:

A judge signed an order to open the Capital Building to the people today. About 2:00PM the Walker Administration said NO and filled an appeal so they are all standing outside. When you cannot fight the truth you try and find a way to keep the truth from being known. Sounds like a form of cowardice to me.

Those 14 democrats put their immediate careers on the line for their beliefs in what is right. When is the last time you saw 14 republicans put their career on the line in similar fashion?

Bob. Only if stateing the truth is taking sides.

Bob, if you want a real laugh, look at the CBS/ New York Times poll.

It purports to show undying love and support for the unions, with boos and hisses for the dastardly republicans.

One little problem: the percentage of the population belonging to private sector and public worker unions COMBINED is 12%.

This poll? 20% of the pool had a household member in a private sector union,and an additional 25% had a household member in a public worker union.

I kind of leaves you wondering who they think they are kidding- but, it explains why the Grey Lady is circling the drain. Their new motto is something like "all the news we make up as we go along".

Bob, Most Americans, Really? the polls dont reflect your claim.....in fact it is the opposite. Pay attention, I know there is a lot going on, but try to keep up.

FR: On Monday, [Wisconsin] Senate Democrats who have blocked that deal by holing up in Illinois put forward their own plan that they said could prevent the layoffs [of Wisconsin public workers] even if the refinancing falls through.”

The Senate Democrats “put forward their own plan”? So how did they do that? They can bring plans to the floor of the Senate while they have run away from their jobs and holed up in Illinois? Does the Wisconsin Senate Republicans have to get GoToMeeting sessions going to discuss legislation with the Democrats?

These Senate Democrat cowards in Illinois, from both Indiana and Wisconsin, need to be evicted from their positions in government. We’re well on our way to anarchy if these tactics by the Democrats are allowed to continue. With their actions, the Senate Democrats are attempting to nullify elections and are disenfranchising the voters for both Indiana and Wisconsin. And now we see these Senate Democrats pop up on the tv from time to time to list their grievances, and enumerate their "demands" for their return. Put a head scarf on them and an AK-47 next them, and they look just like these Al Qaeda losers in the videos from the Middle-East.

Bob-1887910

And take your push polls and shove them....most Americans want to rein in the oower of public employeee unions.

@no joe, no bo, nj

Bob, if you want a real laugh, look at the CBS/ New York Times poll.

Both of you should be able to figure this, right wing hypocrite, Dick Morris' poll. It's not funny either.

VOTERS OPPOSE CHANGING COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS

On the issue of limiting collective bargaining to wage and benefit issues, however, they break with the Governor, opposing the proposal by 41-54.

http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/the-dick-morris-poll-on-wisconsin/

Also, booby trap. I'd utilize my ears with Dick Morris' poll if I were you.

nojonobo

One little problem: the percentage of the population belonging to private sector and public worker unions COMBINED is 12%.

This poll? 20% of the pool had a household member in a private sector union,and an additional 25% had a household member in a public worker union.

There are a couple little problems with nojonobo's math. First, the article on the poll results (that nojonobo didn't see fit to reference) states:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/01/us/01poll.html?ref=newyorktimespollwatch

The nationwide telephone poll was conducted Feb. 24-27 with 984 adults and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus three percentage points for all adults. Of those surveyed, 20 percent said there was a union member in their household, and 25 percent said there was a public employee in their household.

First, nojonobo wants to get a suspeicious-sounding 45% of households with union members by adding up the 20% of people with union members in their household to the 25% who are public employees that she incorrectly claims are all union members. The poll makes it clear that any people living with public employees who are ALSO union members are already accounted for in the 20% of people who said there's a union member in their household.

Second, there's nothing particularly suspicious about 20% of people reporting there's a union member in their household if 12% of the adult population are union members. If a family has two parents and an adult child living with them and only one of those three people is a union member, that's THREE people in that household who are either union members or living with a union member. So clearly, there's going to be significantly more people surveyed who live with a union member than the percentage of the population that are union members.

The really sad thing about this poll is that only 12% of the population are union members. It shows how good a job the Republicans have done at union busting over the past 30 years, and it goes a long way explaining in part why Americans are working longer hours for worse pay and not benefiting from increased productivity, which has mostly gone to increasing the wealth of the wealthy.

No, Bob -- I believe the national polls are with the Wisconsin workers, too.

But at least we've got polls. What have YOU got to support your assertions?

Something you heard on Glenn Beck, perhaps?

JoAnnaSmith1

Does the Wisconsin Senate Republicans have to get GoToMeeting sessions going to discuss legislation with the Democrats?

Does the despicable Koch whore Governor accept GoToMeeting sessions? I don't think so. It has to be a privatee phone call from a mulitibillion Koch brother.

We’re well on our way to anarchy if these tactics by the Democrats are allowed to continue. With their actions, the Senate Democrats are attempting to nullify elections and are disenfranchising the voters for both Indiana and Wisconsin.

You don't even know what democracy is; therefore, you can not speak to anarchy.

And now we see these Senate Democrats pop up on the tv from time to time to list their grievances, and enumerate their "demands" for their return. Put a head scarf on them and an AK-47 next them, and they look just like these Al Qaeda losers in the videos from the Middle-East.

Why are you giving rabid, hateful, tea baggers ideas?

Put a head scarf on them and an AK-47 next them, and they look just like these Al Qaeda losers in the videos from the Middle-East.

Put a suit and tie on the conservatives and a microphone in front of them and they take on the allure of being Koch-suckers.

Gotta vote for this before it's too late. ;-)

JoAnnaSmitth1:

With their actions, the Senate Democrats are attempting to nullify elections and are disenfranchising the voters for both Indiana and Wisconsin.

With their gross and unprecedented abuse of the filibuster, the US Senate Republicans attempted to nullify the election of 2008 and disenfranchise voters. But JAS1 doesn't seem too upset about that. The filibuster was meant for slowing down radical changes in policy, but the Senate Republicans did it for just about all legislation. The Wisconsin Democrats used their own version of the filibuster to block only one radical piece of legislation.

I would like to know what is cowardly about supporting hard working men and women in the state of Wisconsin? JAS1 brands the Wisconsin senate democrats as cowardly for not wanting a piece of legislation railroaded through the legislature in the dark of night with no debate? That is cowardly?

I'll tell you what i think is cowardly - sitting behind your keyboard calling teachers, firefighters, and police officers leeches and bottom feeders. Not one of you righty-tighties would DARE say that to their faces. Cowards.

Do we or do we not all enjoy 8 hour work days and weekends? I thought so. Brought to you by the unions. Thankfully.

Only if stating the truth is taking sides.

Oops...looks like the facts have a Liberal bias...again.

Houston: With their gross and unprecedented abuse of the filibuster

A rule that was agreed to and voted upon by the Senate.

What rule says the Wisconsin and Indiana state Senators can quit their posts, leave their states, and shut down their states governments? And your trying to equate what these cowards did to a filibuster? If so, now you're doing standup comedy.

Bryan:

What the hell are you talking about? I see you fit right in with the rest of the Liberal idiots on here.

They are F.ing cowards. If you don't like something, vote against it. When elections come up, put that record out there. That is why we have elections.

I have not seen anyone on here calling policemen, firefighters and teachers bottom feeders. That is a another one of those Ed Shultz led Liberal talking points. Those unions ARE out of control. I'm quite sure there are quite a few people on here that would state their opinion to the face of anyone they disagree with.

State government isn't shut down here, JoAnna. It's working normally, and will no doubt continue to do so, while our valiant democratic State Senators continue to block Scott Walker from mucking it up. Far from quitting their posts, they're in touch all the time. So sorry, too bad. Your whole premise is false. Again.

Meanwhile, however, Walker barricades himself in his office and locks the Capitol to the people, in a step unprecedented in Wisconsin history that may very well violate the Wisconsin Constitution. I wonder whether Walker's holed up in the Capitol taking directions from his out-of-state-resident puppetmasters.

OUTSTANDING.

Reminds me a little of Saruman in The Lord of the Rings, holed up at Isengard with Wormtongue after Treebeard and Gandalf got through with him. Ever read that, JoAnna? The good guys won.

You sure can pick your side, JoAnna. Scott Walker. Closed to people. But open to business.

Yeah, that suits you just fine.

I have not seen anyone on here calling policemen, firefighters and teachers bottom feeders.

Rush Limbaugh did that, ITM. I heard him. You fit right in with him.

Despite your bluster, or maybe because of it, you're always too easy, ITM.

Now begone. You have no power here.

(not)ITM, just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't happening. Headline from Red State;

The Bottom Feeders: Today’s Unions Striking & Protesting Over Forced Dues

http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport/2011/02/28/the-bottom-feeders-todays-unions-striking-protesting-over-forced-dues/

Elsewhere;

Rush calls Unions Bottom feeders, Indiana AG Jeff Cox calls for live ammo on union protesters

http://rackjite.com/archives/6604-Rush-calls-Unions-Bottom-feeders,-Indiana-AG-Jeff-Cox-calls-for-live-ammo-on-union-protesters.html

As with everything else about this sorry episode, denying it doesn't make it go away.

Which reminds me, why is it necessary for Conservatives to spread so many lies about what's going on in Wisconsin? If they're on the side of right as they maintain wouldn't they want everyone to know EXACTLY what's happening, with no distortion?

Ignore In the Middle: He doesn't know what he is talking about. Not a worthy opponent.

Houston: Great response to nojonobo.

It's very interesting how the facts can get twisted into something else. We have seen this before from nojo. And it is straight out of the Republican playbook.

Sadly, there are lots of people who believe the twisted logic and don't bother to check or read or understand for themselves. That's but one of the reasons we are in this mess...

Ignore In the Middle: He doesn't know what he is talking about.

Oh, well, Ron, if that's your standard, then you'll have to ignore me, too. ;-)

Big Difference Anna Molly: You know what you are talking about.

JoAnnaSmith1

What rule says the Wisconsin and Indiana state Senators can quit their posts, leave their states, and shut down their states governments?

What rule says they cannot? NONE, that's what rule. And unlike the lazy deadwood Republicans in the US Senate, the Wisconsin Democrats are using their power to deny Walker a quorum only under the extraordinary circumstances of his attempt to ram his radical bill down the throats of Wisconsin working families. The real cowards are the supposedly "serious" Republicans who are going along with their crackpot governor's scheme to break the unions in order to appease the teabaggers.

Anna and Ron:

I believe I know exactly what I'm talking about. You can deflect my opinions all you want but that still does not discredit me in the least. If anything in your attempt to belittle me, you have in fact made an azz out of yourselves once again.

As I have stated before YOUR OPINION is no better than anyone else's. THEY ARE ALL OPINIONS.

Now both of you TRICKS can kick rocks..........

fielden

Houston: Great response to nojonobo.

Thanks. It seems to be her specialty to misinterpret polls whose results she doesn't like in order to explain them away as the result of some liberal conspiracy. An earlier Gallup poll showed overwhelming public support for union collective bargaining -- results virtually identical to the NY Times poll, so the liberal conspiracy must be vast, indeed!

@John B and @Anna Molly - thanks for the support. My wife is a "bottom feeder" and proud of it. Being a teacher is a ton more difficult than sitting behind a keyboard and anonymously calling for the end of collective bargaining.

a voice to speak to these lowsy

'Lowsy' you say - Anna Molly was right!

Texas - First in deficits and LAST in education... lmao!

No one's trying to discredit you - you don't need any help!

AM: State government isn't shut down here, JoAnna. It's working normally, and will no doubt continue to do so, while our valiant democratic State Senators continue to block Scott Walker from mucking it up.

You know AM, you should talk with Navy Disabled. You two would get along. You both make things up to construct your own dillusional worlds. Normal you say? So, lets see the Senate pass a budget. That's a normal thing to do, right? States can't run without a budget, correct? So without a budget, the state would be shut-down. That doesn't sound too normal.

AM: Far from quitting their posts, they're in touch all the time.

In touch? With who? Their union bosses? They getting their marching orders from the AFL-CIO? That is who they represent, correct?

Houston: What rule says they cannot . . . .

Wisconsin Constitution Article IV states: Oath of office. SECTION 28. Members of the legislature, and all officers, executive and judicial, except such inferior officers as may be by law exempted, shall before they enter upon the duties of their respective offices, take and subscribe an oath or affirmation to support the constitution of the United States and the constitution of the state of Wisconsin, and faithfully to discharge the duties of their respective offices to the best of their ability.

Does it sound line the runaway Democratic state senators of Wisconsin are "discharging their duties"? That would be the "rule" you're looking for Houston.

JAS1:

Does it sound line the runaway Democratic state senators of Wisconsin are "discharging their duties"?

Didn't see anything about providing their crackpot governor the quorum he needs to ram though radical anti-union legislation as being a "duty" of office. Looks to me like those senators are faithfully executing their duties to the people who elected them, while Walker is faithfully executing his duties to the GOP sugar daddies who bought him.

And by the way: JoAnnaSmith is trying really hard to forget that Abraham Lincoln did essentially the same thing as the Wisconsin Democrats when he jumped out of a 2nd story window to deprive the Illinois Democrats a quorum. Was Abe a "coward" who was derelict in his duty? Maybe to JAS1 he was, but to most Americans, he was one of the greatest US presidents in history.

DBO:

Great post this morning. Walker is a great example of a Governor that wants total control over his subjects. It is the GOP/TP agenda to control and weaken the Middle Class and give huge rewards to those that have funded their campaigns and caused the problems to begin with.

This will not change until the people get feed up and through the thugs out.

Drive By - there are two very important takeaways that need to be highlighted from your post.

To the Republicans/Tea Party/Independents that are supporting Gov. Walker - Drive By is right. If the Governor is successful in his efforts, your taxes are NOT going to be reduced. In fact, if there are layoffs, the tax burden rises because there are 1,500 less people contributing to the tax base.

To the Progressives/Democrats - What you see in Wisconsin, with the election of Gov. Walker, is the result of you NOT voting and 'staying home'. Maybe this will be a 'wake up call' for all of you lazy sods that decided that it was not important to vote. Yes, elections have consequences, and the consequences of you staying home allows people like Gov. walker to get into office. Is your inaction REALLY worth the turmoil we are seeing in Wisconsin?

DBO, terrific post. Interesting that in a little over a month, Governor Walker finds himself in the position that IF elections were held today, he would lose--stubborn and obstinate will do that.

Iowa's own Gov Branstad finds himself in a similarly negative situation since taking office in mid Jan, his approval rating dropped to 45%. I'm still waiting for Branstad to tell Iowans where he plans to find the additional $510 million budget shortfall he will create if he gets his tax cuts for big business passed; reports say his proposed revenue stream only adds $190 million while his cuts cost $700 million. Branstad also is after collective bargaining rights.

Pietro:

That argument goes both ways. Republicans didn't come out in overwhelming numbers.

If Democrats had swept the nation the way Republicans did in the election, the same exact argument would be coming from the other side. It's POLITICS and that is the very reason MOST Americans could care less about POLITICS. I asked 3 of my son's friends (HS) who was the vice president and one said "President Bush's brother", another said " Condolooses Rice" and the last said "The white man that talks a lot"......This is Most of America.

ITM: This is Most of America

Sad! But not really surprising. Just look at what gets posted on this forum.

This is the reason people SHOULD care about politics. It affects them and it affects their future.

If Democrats had swept the nation the way Republicans did in the election, the same exact argument would be coming from the other side.

ITM, you are probably right about that.

It's POLITICS and that is the very reason MOST Americans could care less about POLITICS. I asked 3 of my son's friends (HS) who was the vice president and one said "President Bush's brother", another said " Condolooses Rice" and the last said "The white man that talks a lot"......This is Most of America.

Well, your son's friends have exemplified the problem we have in this country. Most people are disengaged and then are surprised when there are issues. The mere fact that your son's friends coundn't even answer a simple question - who is the vice-president - tells me that not only do YOU have some work to do, I do as well.

Knowledge is power, and in the new economy, knowledge is money. You and I BOTH need to reach out to these young people and get them engaged, no matter what the political persuasion.

For once, ITM, we have a common ground where we can converse. I am even voting for your post.

Each and every economy in the US from small municipalities to the biggest cities to the states and the Federal level have had MASSIVE reductions in revenues - some by intent to buy votes, some by intent because of philosophy but MOST by the failure to modernize and innovate on all levels. Failure to upgrade manufacturing facilities means it's cheaper to build new and relocate...often overseas. Failure to maintain communication and transportation infrastructure creates unreliability and it's cheaper to build new...often overseas. Failure to innovate communication and energy in existing facilities means it's cheaper to build new...often overseas.

Every single area of neglect is a lost job. Every lost job is lost revenue. It is a vicious cycle of self-fulfilling failure. The only way to break that cycle is to pick up the challenge and rebuild HERE. People who are not working are consuming a smaller and smaller pool of public support...people who are put back to work re-create the lost revenues.

Essential to that investment is changing the tax policies that allow corporations to have their income and assets declared "for future reinvestment" and held tax free in perpetuity, while never making the investments. It needs instead to be a credit for $$ SPENT on rebuilding, modernization and reinvestment and proof of increased employment at wages that disqualify workers for public assistance programs - on all levels.

We will NEVER increase revenues by cutting income. Ever. We will NEVER increase revenues by failing to invest in workers and the opportunity to work. Ever.

However - every business begins with deficit spending. Doesn't matter if they begin with a truckload of cash that has been saved up or begin with letters of access to a line of credit - until the income equalizes and exceeds the outgo, it is deficit spending. It's called investment.

Every bond that is issued, every stock that is purchased is deficit spending until it is time to pay dividends or time to sell. It's called investment.

The very act of going to work and spending one's time with the expectation of compensation at the end of the week is deficit spending.

Oh yes, we can and do deficit spend our way to prosperity. When we don't it's called quitting.

Gramma - great post. I think that many people are under the impression that businesses don't operate with deficits. Your post pretty much tells the truth if you have ever owned a business. There are going to be times when your cash flow/income is not going to be enough to cover your expenses. This is why we have letters of credit - you know - DEBT - that is paid back to the bank or financial institution that floated the credit.

I like your comeback to the phrase of the day - Can we spend our way to prosperity?

Yes, we Can!!

GrammaKnows

Oh yes, we can and do deficit spend our way to prosperity. When we don't it's called quitting.

Gramma seems to know more about how successful and productive businesses actually operate than the average ultra-right Republican who worships corporate power. Spending on research, education, and infrastructure is a very different type of deficit spending than blowing trillions of dollars on the botched Iraq war that was started under false pretenses and whose only "return" on investment was making people in the Muslim world hate us more than they already did.

Gramma,

Interesting thought on deficit spending, but did you add that every start up company runs as lean as it can? It watches every penny untilll cash flow allows more workers and better benifits. You also understand that a company grows as long as its customers are willing to buy the product they are selling.

Blacksmiths became service stations as the world changed. Those that made buggy wipes went out of business if they didn't find something else to sell. Those that were successful did it because they were flexible enough to change with the times. This is what Walker is trying to accomplish. Some obviously don't like the way he is doing it, than they better come up with a better way of doing it beside saying we've been doing it like this for the last 100 years.

My wife is a PS teacher in WI and this will have an effect on us. If any of you want to blame someone, blame yourself for voting in the same people year after year that never thought ahead.

@ Pietro - thanks...and you have touched upon one of the most dangerous aspects of not making the investment. When consumers have their spending (not just discretionary - necessity and survival spending) curtailed by relentless cutting of income, it tightens credit, which in turn tightens business credit, which, of course, in turn further reduces new business investment.

Tax breaks and give-aways do not attract business as Walker envisions...at least not businesses that will stick around. Businesses that succeed evaluate all of the costs and benefits annd then decide if they will invest their own degree of risk. With a workforce in flux, destabilized in spending capacity, undermined in borrowing capacity, the workforce snaps shut the purse. The only people not surprised by the decrease in consumer spending in January are business owners who actually examine market trends (consumer, not stock market). The consumer is responding to the threat of decreased income. No tax credit or give-away is enough to offset a reluctant consumer who sees the need to acquire breathing room in personal finances.

It is an excellent time for a start-up if one looks at property cost, qualified and available labor pool, suppliers willing to negotiate deals. It is an utterly horrific time to start a business if the only confidence in the region it's governing body can manage is a climate of breaking the back of potential customers.

@ Houston! - Wars are like boats - a hole into which one pours money. Unfortunately, unlike boats, they require blood as well. We have spent half a generation destroying infrastructures there at the expense of improving and upgrading infrastructure here.

Link to an interesting site. Probably not entirely accurate as it assumes equal distribution of costs to every US resident, but you may find (under the Trade Offs link at the top) an approximation of what it costs in investment spending in your own state or even municipality. http://costofwar.com/en/

It does not, however even begin to address the costs of after care and rehabilitation for the human investment made. You are 100% correct in your assessment of the difference in deficit spending.

@jrl - No, every company does not run as lean as it can. Companies run as lean as is possible given the information that is available when they examine the cost/benefit analysis and make continuous adjustments.

Walker has not done the cost/benefit analysis - case in point the built-in conditions for the Transportation funding. It is there to prevent the hiring of cut-rate labor and the pocketing of the difference. Walker did not even know such conditions exist. He also has zero understanding of public school funding. He is apparently completely unaware that states have to maintain a percentage of what is termed "highly qualified teachers" in order to maximize the Federal investment in their schools. I'm waiting for someone to produce the numbers on how much the state will lose in fed funds for creating a push for "highly qualified teachers" to seek better working conditions in states that offer signing bonuses (despite fiscal woes) because their percentages are too low or class sizes too large. At the moment he is salivating at the prospect of increasing class size and "layoffs" of higher earning personnel. Considering higher earning = "highly qualified" status and class sizes are also tied to the funding, it is perhaps a very good thing that other governors are moving somewhat slower than he is...some of them might even know how far under the bus he has thrown himself thinking all the while that he is the driver.

Gramma - these are some GREAT posts. Your very interesting insight intrigues me. I agree that the Govenor of WI has not done his homework, and he is just touting the 'company' line. I see no room for investment. I see no room for improvement. I see no room for growth. All I see is cut, cut, cut.

The people of WI are going to suffer, no doubt. This Governor has no vision, and no way of being able to LEAD his state.

Gramma, continue posting. There are some of us out here that think outside of the ideaological box and I thoroughly enjoy your posts.

Wow Gramma, you've laid out your position with detail, fact, and thought. Hope to see you here more often, you've really given us something to think about.

Agreed,to me you have nailed it with every post. I really hope that you have given some of these naysayers some food for though.

Stuffing the ballot box for this. :)

Yes. Dewey Cheetum and Howe (with sincere apologies to "Car Talk").

Good one, Patrick and Anna Molly!

No Patrick, their all on the same drug. They take the drug for their power high.

True. No doubt there are some nervous Wisconsin congressional republicans and some may decide backing Walker's collective bargaining busting is not in their best interests for re-election.

You guys do not live in Wisc. How do you know how they will fare in the next election? Wisc. is a pretty red state in more ways than one. I do not see a downside 2 yrs down the road. They may be in an uproar for a few months but as with everything in life, you move on.

People who tell you to "move on" or "get over it" are generally the ones who did "it" in the first place.

You apparently don't live in Wisconsin, either. I do. This isn't Texas -- No public unions, first in deficits, last in education, and loving it. Be proud, ITM. And get over it.

Scott Walker. Closed to people. Open for business.

Anna:

Generally peopel tell you to get over it because there is nothing you can do to change it. They tell you to "keep it moving" because you are not changing my mind.

Yes I'm from Texas and proud. Texas has one of the lowest unemployment number in the nation, more businesses has relocated here than anywhere else in the nation, etc.

Deficits:???? The number one reason is MEDICAID and providing state assistance to illegals, low property taxes within the inner cities.

You may not like the reason for the education numbers but it is because we have a tremendous illegal population and they only go to school until caught plus Hispanics have been dropping out of school for decades. The latest trend in AA dropouts is cause for alarm.

Another reason for education problems is these multi-million dollar football stadiums that are going up at a rapid pace and these coaches making 6 figures as a norm. When a district shells out their portion of 20 million on a stadium, that is less money to pay qualified teachers

Yes, Nash- but them point is that you should have a choice.

Most of those workers in Wisconsin do not have that- a choice, that is. Many, if not most, were not even born when the unions took over the representation.

So, why is it an evil thing to have elections- secret ballot elections, so no one can be coerced by either side- on whether or not to re-certify the unions?

And why is it so evil to allow people to choose whether or not to accept union representation? If you want to join the union, but I do not, why should you be precluded, or I forced, against our wills?

By the way- you do know that federal employees have no right to collective bargaining, do you not?. Despite union representation?

You also know, do you not, that D.C. Is. "right to work", right?

So, if it is good enough for the federal government, why is it so wrong for the states?

Nash - people in Wisconsin DO have a choice to join a union or not.

You mean NJNB is lying again?

Who would of thunk?

Those rights already exist, no joe. Wisconsin isn't what you think it is. People don't have to join public unions, and some don't -- until they need help. Then they're very happy the union is there.

If you can't see from what is happening here that those decertification votes might not come out the way you think, then you need better glasses. After the past two weeks, we're actually seeing non-union university faculty members take votes IN FAVOR of unionizing. What a difference an idiot governor can make in people's outlook.

You also know, do you not, that D.C. Is. "right to work", right?

So, if it is good enough for the federal government, why is it so wrong for the states?

Yeah, right. If the poverty and crime and desolation of D.C. is enough for the federal government, then why is it so wrong for the states?

Really, no joe. Why are conservatives always so obsessed with dragging people down to the lowest levels? Is that the only idea you have?

And did you really walk five miles to school through the blizzards and pouring rain, no joe? Because I think it must have addled your brain.

Good morning no joe.

I find it comedic in the highest that you of all people are going to write "If it is good enough for the federal government, why is it so wrong for the states."

Conservatives have been ranting and raving for decades that we need to let each state do what is best for them . . . I guess that only applies until they disagree, huh?

Kind of like all the rest of the rights . . . freedom of religion, unless I don't like your religion. Freedom of speech, unless I don't want to hear what you have to say. Right to privacy, unless I want to know.

Let's cut to the chase shall we . . . this is all about those in power trying to ensure that workers in the United States don't get any bright ideas and try to overthow them Egypt style.

The problem is, in their attempt to protect themselves, they created the thing they were trying to avoid - reminding folks that they DO have the power and they DON'T need "permission" to exercise it.

P.S. Using your logic, we should all have nice health insurance benefits like federal employees as well, eh? Funny how the same folks in these legislative bodies who are so against stuff don't mind so much when they are the recipient of the benefit. When state legislatures vote to give themselves pay increases, is that better or worse than collective bargaining? Just askin'.

P.S.S. It was the Bush Administration that did alot to change collective barganing at the federal level, of course, the kept us all so distracted by constantly attacking folks without provocation that most of us didn't notice . . . we do now though.

NoJoe: You also know, do you not, that D.C. Is. "right to work", right? So, if it is good enough for the federal government, why is it so wrong for the states?

You do know that D.C. has no representation in congress, right? Is that what you want for the rest of the country? Wait, that IS what is happening in Wisconsin...

And I will second Nash's observation of the inconsistency that exists in your comments. After railing against the federal government, you are now going to hold them up as an example?!

I'm confused....

You can fool some of the people all of the time. A very wise person passing through here yesterday reminded me yesterday that financier robber baron Jay Gould once said -- more than somewhat cynically -- that he could manipulate half the workers to shoot the other half.

Well, the robber baron financiers are back. And this time, the people are actually armed.

Jody - according to the Collective bargaining Agreements in Wisconsin that I read, both the Employer (state) and the Union MUST bargain in Good Faith. Here is the definition:

Duty to Bargain in Good Faith During the bargaining process, the parties are not required by law to reach agreement. They must, however, bargain in good faith (29 U.S.C.A. § 158[d]).

So, the State is bound by the Agreement that they have signed that states that they WOULD bargain. For th Governor to say 'NO, I will not bargain' is a breach of that Collective Bargaining agreement. The Governor is derelect in his DUTY, as a representative ot the state, when it comes to Collective bargaining.

How will this play out?

THIS is going to be interesting.

You realize, of course, that the emphasis is on "good faith." By the way, the statutory section being cited is Section 8 of the National Labor Relations Act, on which Wisconsin modeled its own collective bargaining law.

Interesting, indeed.

I am glad to see the attacks on the middle class and the pitting of one group against the other be more public---maybe now people will believe that they are real. I used to naively believe that both parties wanted what was best for everyone but just had different ideas of how to achieve that but I have sadly come to believe that the Republicans want what is best for themselves and their donors and for the others---they don't really care.

And Senator Hatch----how sad that he will do and say anything to retain his seat in the Senate.

It's all about winning for the GOP/TP, regardless of what it does to the country. They really don't care about the United States of America, just the GOP/TP.

BTW: no joe, JA1, Bob and the other paid trolls prove it everyday. All they do is spread crap that isn't true day after day.

More food for thought. The GOP has successfully convinced people that private sector unions are the reason jobs were outsourced overseas (we read that here often). Not true, business just wanted to make a higher profit and they went where labor was really cheap; Americans suddenly liked cheap goods and bought the sales pitch that it was unions that cost them their jobs; wages declined as unions declined. Next the GOP successfully convinced people that taxing the rich at a higher rate was bad and harmful to the economy. People bought that sales pitch without ever looking at history: the rich were rich and became richer even when the highest tax rate was 90% because that tax rate was not what they ever came close to paying. The GOP is working hard to convince people that Government is bad yet the only reason Government isn't as good as it should be is because the GOP has starved it almost to death--the massive debt is proof that Government is necessary but it is not free.

Houston, the problem in both Camden and Newark, which also had to cut cops, was that the unions would not agree to salary givebacks that would have amounted to less than three percent of their paychecks.

They knew that the only alternative was layoffs, but would not budge.

Did you also know that the presidents and vice presidents of those unions made those decisions, without having an election, despite calls from the membership demanding the right to vote on it? See, the membership would have voted to keep the forces intact- but their fearless leaders decided that they had no say in the matter.

Which is why, I suppose, polling organizations need to bloat the pool with union households in order to get the results try want from their polls on unions.

In actuality, people have voted with their feet on how they feel about unions.

The police union in Camdem was offered pay-cuts or lay-offs. They chose layoffs. Camdem is so badly managed that its deficit is greater than its projected income for the year. How much money should be we pour into this hole?

Houston, the problem in both Camden and Newark, which also had to cut cops, was that the unions would not agree to salary givebacks that would have amounted to less than three percent of their paychecks.

So, in order to account for a 3% salary increase, they have to lay off half the cops, resulting in a 50% increase in shooting incidents?

Which is why, I suppose, polling organizations need to bloat the pool with union households in order to get the results try want from their polls on unions.

As I explained in #3.7, your math was totally screwed up on the NY Times poll, which is not the only one showing widespread public supports for the collective bargaining by those unions that you hate almost as much as you hate our president.

Political points and political grandstanding aside with 50% increased shootings do you think the population of Camden and Newark are satisfied with their new undermanned police force? Forget about these winter statistics, what do you think the citizens will think about their governor during the hot summer months.

Why, with all of the problems New Jersey residents document on this site, do you stay in New Jersey? Vote with your feet -- move somewhere better. You have complained about the schools, about the corruption from politicians and unions, about the taxes....if New Jersey is a cesspool (which is how it is usually portrayed in fiction), just leave. If, in fact, you do appreciate things about New Jersey (the garden state, shore line, nearness to cultural centers, etc.) you are doing your state a disservice by complaining all the time.

@Kate

Not complaining trying to improve things. Do you like EVERYTHING about where you live? Problem with Jersey is that it has terrible governors for the last 20 years going back to Christie Todd Whitman. Taxes are literally out of control. We have a sales tax at 7% and an income tax at 6.37% (for most), plus we have the highest in nation real estate taxes. Problem is Kate is that young people in particular are voting with their feet. That's why we are losing a congressional seat. I'm not an ideologue but I do understand that we cannot support a system where a cop retires after 25 years at 50, then works a second job while collecting pension and health care. I understand that test scores are falling (compared to other nations) while funding is rising so I reach the conclusion it is not money but something else. I understand that unions cannot negotiate with the same people they helped elect. I understand that social security is bust because of the demographics of an aging population and the fact previous administrations/congress have spent the surplus that was supposed to cover the baby boomers. I don't care what party comes up with the solutions but I'm not seeing much initiative from Washington. However, here in Jersey we have governor who is speaking bluntly about how deep in the hole we are and that there is no more money. As there is no more money some things are going to have to be cut. We can't afford a tunnel if it costs 3 or 4 Billion more (hell we can't afford the first 3 Billion). In Washington they are borrowing 40 cents of every dollar they spend. Think about that. That 40 cents is a loan that your kids are responsible for. In 10 years we will be like Camdem with a deficit greater than the revenues of the Federal government . How will you pay for Medicare, Education, Medicaid and Welfare when every cent is needed to pay interest on the loans we are racking up right now? That is what I worry about not about whether Obama or Boehner had a good day politically.

RVZ555

Now THERE'S that Compassionate Conservative we've all come to know and 'love'.

" we cannot support a system where a cop retires after 25 years at 50, then works a second job while collecting pension and health care."

What have we become as a country when a cop, wanting to retire after 25 years of risking his or her life protecting fellow citizens, is made out to be one of the "bad guys?" I mean really. The economy tanks because of Wall Street malfeasance, and those workers get million dollar bonuses, but all of a sudden, a cop wanting to claim benefits he's earned after 25 years, is the epitome of greed?

Amy, it's all part of the "divide and conquer" strategy of the Right. If they can get us all turned against each other we'll lose sight of the massive amounts of wealth being siphoned out of the middle class and directed to the very tip of the economic pyramid.

No shoot, Sherlock. Best comment today.

Good to see you bright and early Anna Molly: Where can one buy the bumper sticker? Get them before the governor goes out of business.

BTW, I'd like to again see those posts from yesterday. They are worth repeating.

Good morning, Ron. We could probably make a killing on those bumper stickers, no?

As for the posts, just waiting for the right moment. As early as I was, I was still a little late to the party this morning.

Great job, Anna Molly. You have to wonder why Walker is being so stubborn but then I remember his conversation with the faux David Koch and the answer is obvious.

Arms length bargaining with fat cat billionaire robber barons who are apparently "one" with Scott Walker?

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Strange, because the people who are being hurt by this are ALSO average citizens...teachers, snow plow drivers, garbage collectors, and game wardens. This whole "crisis" arose because Pinkerton Walker gave THEIR money to big business through tax breaks.

Kinda turns the whole Conservative narrative on its ear.

Like Texas, you mean? With the biggest deficit and the worst education system?

No thanks.

" Right to Work State."

What is up with Republicans and their penchant for using names for bills that are the exact opposite of what the result would be?

No one is forced to join a union in Maine, no one would lose their job or not be hired if they refused to join a union, but our Tea Party governor is also pushing a "Right To Work" law, that is simply a bill to allow workers to opt out of paying for union representation at negotiation. It's a bill aimed at busting up public unions. Why not call "Right to Work" states what they aim to be "Non-public union states." If it's not a bad idea, why cover up your intent with a lie?

@Amy

If you are not forced to join a union in Maine why do you need an "opt out" law?

Alan, NJ - I think that is her point. She DOESN'T. It is the Tea Party Governor that is pushing it.

Texas has no public unions and its debt far surpasses Wisconsin's. This is true nationwide, whether a state is union or not, right to work or not, it boils down to this: "It's the economy, stupid." It has absolutely NOTHING to do with collective bargaining. Use your heads and not your political rose-colored glasses.

Amy

Ok call it Right to Work without paying dues to a Union boss.

Jody

Texas also is a larger State and has escalting cost due to illegal aliens also. States pay more for union employees than nonunion employees. Dept of Labor will tell you that. When Unions bargain with States run by Democrats there is no one representing the taxpayer at the table. One reason they got such above average benefits and wages. Unions have given the DNC almost $500,000,000 the last 3 Nov elections. The AFSCME gave $87,000,000 this past Nov alone to the DNC....their website gives this.

Amy

Why should State employees have more right than Federal employees? Walker and your governor want them to be equal.

Walker and your governor want them to be equal.

REALLY? Do tell then, why Walker EXEMPTED the Police - Firefighters and State Troopers?

Wouldn't be because they supported his campaign now would it?

I am sure it was......plus the fact that it would put every citizen in the Sate at risk of injury or loss of property........Common sense. All the Unions knew of Walker's platform during his election. He has put the State on a path of recovery and debt reduction and growth of business.......eventual benefits for ALL citizens.

One number that would be good for both of us to find is the amount ...if any..... that the police and firemans Union gave to walkers campaign. Nationwide Unions give like 98% to DNC.

Wi Democrats got 25% of donations from unions.....plus Millions more in TV commercials

Walker got 2/3 of 2.5 mill from donations $50 and below. Saw where one Wi police organization gave $45,000 to to DNC candidate and $20,000 to Walker. Not much there to support claim Redhead.

1Hiram, the assertion that Walker ran on a platform of curtailing worker rights is just another of his lies;

Walker contends he clearly "campaigned on" his union bargaining plan.

But Walker, who offered many specific proposals during the campaign, did not go public with even the bare-bones of his multi-faceted plans to sharply curb collective bargaining rights. He could not point to any statements where he did. We could find none either.

While Walker often talked about employees paying more for pensions and health care, in his budget-repair bill he connected it to collective bargaining changes that were far different from his campaign rhetoric in terms of how far his plan goes and the way it would be accomplished.

We rate his statement False.

http://politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/feb/22/scott-walker/wisconsin-gov-scott-walker-says-he-campaigned-his-/

He didn't specifically say say" limit collective bargaining rights of unions" but go to scottwalker.org and read what issues he campaigned on.........anyone that knows the waste involved in unions and government knew what was coming. Look at how much money the unions gave his opposition.....they knew!!!!! They should have put all those $$$$$MILLIONS in their pension fund instead. More misinformation from Unions and their fatcat bosses and solidarity from Union press members

Well, you're right about one thing...anyone who's surprised that the GOPTP is about attacking the middle class to further enrich the already rich wasn't paying attention.

This will help the State and the all taxpayers.

With your thinking on the GOPTP.......guess it is now the DNCUNION since Unions gave over $500,000,000 to the DNC the last 3 Nov elections .......then Andy Stern and Richard Trumka must control the Democrats.

What is wrong with all Government employees(local/state/fed) having the same collective bargaining rights that Federal employees currently have and have had for decades??????

Taking money out of the pockets of middle class workers in order to fund tax breaks Wisconsin big business helps how?

The GOPTP attack on the middle class continues unabated.

Would love to see your answer to the question.......

Currently the middle class in Wi are paying the majority for The 50% unionized State employees pension plan and health care and also an inflated salary.........and that is fair??????

Who do they need all this bargaining protection from???? Are they being abused by Wi??? Don't think so!!!!

Stop listening to sterotypes and headlines.......

No, currently that's part of the employee's wages. Once I pay my employees it's THEIR money, not mine. I'm going to lunch soon, I don't get to tell the waitress how to spend her tip. If I buy that lunch from a street vendor I don't get to tell him to do his business on another block. Once the Governor gets his salary out of my taxes I don't get to tell him what to do with it.

Once you spend money it isn't yours anymore. You don't get to tell other people how to spend their money. Not even if they're public employees.

guess you did not understand the question .......or how their pension and healthcare are paid. States taxpayers are paying the difference. Not fair.....doesn't matter what your income is!

Is there a reason why employees should have to pay for a failure of management to properly fund the operation?

I guess so, the rest of us are still paying for the Kings of Wall Street nearly bringing down the world economy...while they go back to their traditional lavish bonuses.

Most people believe Gov Walker is taking away all bargaining rights......he's not. Question was worded poorly to take advantage of that. I would love to see a poll ask if "Do you think State employees should have the SAME bargaining rights as Federal employees".......bet it would be "YES" at around 80-90%. That is exactly what the Gov is asking also. There are many ways to skew a poll......Statistic 101

Seems like I'm with ya'. To hell with the Unions. I hope all of the state Reps put them down and out. These THUGS are through. And locally here in my state, I will NEVER vote for a police, fire, or school levy again. I am DONE with this crap.

Do you have a single friend that is a union member? If so i suggest you go to their house pull down your pants and crap on their front porch. That is essentially what you are doing here on First Read. But i know you won't do that or stop being friends with that person because they are a union member. You just like to feel important on a message board where people regurgitate what they hear on the five o'clock news.

You, like so many on the right, must have your head in a whole in the ground. It has nothing to do with money, fool! We gave into that the second day and now it is our rights that we have had for 40 years. This governor is a sicko. He closed the Capitol until a judge ruled today that he can't keep the people out. When the people hear his budget today things will get worse. I love the chaos he created after only being in office one month. Some republicans in the Senate are getting sick of him too and the Senate vote may surprise him. I doubt it will, but we are keeping up the good fight regardless!!

"It has nothing to do with money, fool"

It's all about the money and if you say otherwise you lie. If you don't show up to work while lying that you are sick it's nothing more that you showing your face at the protest so you can continue to try keep your ability to strike when you don't get what you want and in effect holding the public hostage by not showing up to do your job.

BTW very few if ANY workers today in public unions had anything to do with getting a 40 hour work week or the multitude of other GOOD things that the early unions got passed in to law. Again today's public union worker seem to have this entitlement or "respect me because I am union" attitude that they seem to demand when they had ZERO to do with getting these laws passed.

Nice of you to accuse those relying on facts as being liars, Tracy.

Fact: The unions gave up $100M in concessions in December and have already agreed to all newly requested concessions save one.

Fact: The only thing left on the table is collective bargaining rights.

Obvious conclusion: It isn't about money, it's about taking rights from workers.

If you think otherwise please produce some facts that back up that argument. Otherwise name calling isn't going to get it.

"Nice of you to accuse those relying on facts as being liars, Tracy."

What facts? Concessions and some MADE UP RIGHTS are irrelevant to this debate. This is about the fact the public worker unions have no place in the work place....only in the private sector should they be allowed. FDR would probably love to smack some sense in to you if he were alive. Unions are for the private sector only. The service that these public workers provide, by law in many cases, can only be provided by them, hence the public has zero recourse if the union decides to strike. Why do you think that it is OK for these workers to hold the tax payers hostage?

"Fact: The unions gave up $100M in concessions in December and have already agreed to all newly requested concessions save one."

And? Do you have something more relevant to the debate? Some relevant facts maybe?

"Obvious conclusion: It isn't about money, it's about taking rights from workers."

Where do you get this BS idea that collective bargining is a right? Please cite in the U.S. Constitution where this "right" resides and while you are at it please cite where it says that healthcare is a right. Thats of course if you also think that healthcare is or should be a right.

"Otherwise name calling isn't going to get it"

When it's obvious that the unions are in it for the money and benefits as a matter of FACT then I call it as I see it. If it wasn't about the money and benefits they would have not walked off the job causing thousands of kids to miss school and working adults having to take off of work to take care of their kids. They should have kept their sorry asses in the classroom and did their job instead of getting fake doctors notes and lying about being sick.....hey that's another lie....go figure.

The Kochs are in it for the money too...and they're winning. Just keep thinking they care about you as the middle class falls farther and farther behind. The GOPTP has been proving who they are for the last 30 years. I believe them.

"Just keep thinking they care about you as the middle class falls farther and farther behind"

I don't even know much less care who the Kochs are. I have head of them but then again I don't care who they are and I certainly don't whine about much less think that it's someone else's fault that the middle class is shrinking. Being middle class is not something I aspire to be much less remain. If your family remains or has remained middle class for generations that's absolutely pathetic. If you think that everyone should be middle class and/or should be satisfied with remaining middle class then you have some serious issues about what it means to be an American.

Instead you're behind a view that says we'd better protect the top 2% because if we don't I won't be able to enjoy all those same advantages when I get there. It's no better than the High School kid who pins his whole future on being an NBA star, ignoring the odds. One out of 2,000 HS players get to play Division 1. One out of 2,000 D1 players get to the pros.

Now that's pathetic. To hell with the middle class who made America wealthy, bow and scrape to the rich and hope you get to join them one day.

"Instead you're behind a view that says we'd better protect the top 2% because if we don't I won't be able to enjoy all those same advantages when I get there"

I am not at all for "protecting the top 2%". Where are your facts or are you just assuming this based on the fact that I don't think that the middle class something to aspire to remain in? BTW I am not into the BS class warfare game where liberal politicians and political pundits continually try to make those who are middle class believe that those at the top are "out to get them" and the we must do everything in our power to take from them and "spread the wealth".

BTW the top 5% represents a large portion of the small business owners....

"Including all tax returns that had a positive AGI [adjusted gross income], taxpayers with an AGI of $153,542 or more in 2006 constituted the nation's top 5 percent of earners. To break into the top 1 percent, a tax return had to have an AGI of $388,806 or more. The top-earning 25 percent of taxpayers [have an] AGI over $64,702."

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/The_top_5_percent_of_wage_earners_in_America_annual_income#ixzz1FZCiRajn

"To hell with the middle class who made America wealthy"

The middle class was not solely responsible for making America wealthy. If fact if it were not for the business owners, engineers, doctors, managers, CEOs, and risk takers, i.e. the "wealthy people", those middle class people who HELPED build this country wouldn't have known what to do in their job much less have one. You have to have button pushers, but you also have to have problem solvers and those on the assembly line don't engineer anything and those in the office don't make anything.

The DEMOCRATS not GOP took away Collective Bargaining rights for Federal Unions(wage and benefits only) 33 years ago. Gov Walker ONLY wants the SAME for Wi State employees. Best thing Jimmy Carter did as Prez.

"Some say its because Unions tend to support Democrats at election time"

Tend? Are you kidding? How about the main reason that the WI Senators are cowardly hiding in another stated is that their union bosses, i.e. those who contribute by far the most to them at election time, told them in no uncertain terms what to do. They are ALL "yes men/women" when it come to doing the bidding of the special interests of the the public unions.

Doing it for the kids? UTTER BS and a LIE.

Doing it to protect their jobs? WITHOUT QUESTION THE TRUTH.

Gosh, I hope so! Go Governor Walker go! THIS is why we elected him. This is his job - to balance the budget that the Dem. F*head left for him. We didn't elect the union to run the state and they need to shut up and go home.

If this was such a horrific thing, why did the Dem Governor sneak most of it in just before he left office? Cutting special deals with Dems and unions that he knew Wisconsin couldn't afford? No one got to vote on that @!$%# then. At least Governor Walker is inviting debate. The Dems chose to run instead of doing their job. It should pass through Executive Order and be done with.

Governor Walker inherited a friggin' mess. We elected him to fix it. We're glad the Dem is gone. Scott Walker is doing a great job!

This isn't about anything other than the greedy unions wanting their union dues and the ability to send more funds to the DNC and to control the teachers. Because of this, there will be a lot of teacher layoffs - then watch the class sizes go up!

eSchool will be the way to go! I'm actually looking into it myself. Just gave a scholarship to a girl who is going to eSchool and will graduate early! It works!!

Amy

All Gov Waker wants is for his State Emp Union to have the SAME collective bargaining rights as CURRENT Federal Emp Union members.

Oh my God, you are attacking TSA agents? What have we become as a country when people who put their lives on the line on the job are "the bad guys?"

Jim-792457 just what does a terrorist look like. We also have " terrorist" that have been home grown, that have been here for decades. There is no "United" left in States of America any more. Let one plane go down, and you'll be whineing about not enough security then. Pick Jim, Pick !!!!!

Jim, TSA isn't unionized.

Nice try.

Note to self - Check facts before posting on the internet and looking like a fool.

Flew back to Houston from Las Vegas yesterday. Out on a business trip. I flew SW-Airlines who flys all domestic flights (with maybe an exception to Mexico). 40 + TSA agents on duty in that terminal alone.

Last time I flew there were too FEW TSA agents and the lines to get through security were way too long. If the Repubs succeed in slashing the homeland security budget like they want to do, they'll cut back on the number of those "greedy" TSA agents even more. I wonder how many travelers will be pleased with having to spend hours standing in line so that the wealthy who fly on private jets can keep their tax cuts.

Houston,

Is it possible that if there were different work rules, there would be TSA agents there when you need them??

Here's the problem. Teachers only pay a small percentage into their retirement and they retire into their 50s which means they live another 30 years sucking the pension funds dry. Those pensions were negotieated when the economy was good. It is unsustainable. Now, I pay 100% of MY retirement but then my tax dollars have to make up the rest of the teacher's retirements. BS! Same with state and city workers. I'm done paying for them. And because of tenure, you can't fire any of the lousy ones. And why you people hide behind a Union just says to me that you enjoy paying the UNION THUG BOSSES! Be smart and give yourself a raise. Quit the Union

I DO worked in the public sector. I still oppose the benefits the Wisconsin teachers get. I pay 50% of my healthcare premiums, I may 30% of my pension.

These teaches pay 0.5% of their pensions, and only 6% of the healthcare.

They need to be paying into their benefits in amounts that are on par with the private sector that pays they other 99.5% of their benefits.