Most important thing Orrin has said in years.

Hatch hasn't ever said anything of any importance whatsoever, so that particular bar isn't very high.

I think Orrin was using the psychological defense known as projection.

So Houston, do you disagree with his comments on spending? Do you forsee the US ever actually repaying any of the debt?

What do you think is an acceptable debt ceiling?

I thought 'projection' described some sort of vomiting pattern. Oh, wait....

Joanna,

this from the guy who stood by Clarence nasty Thomas. yes ok.

His concerns should be that the tea party has singled out him for defeat in 2012.

JoAnnaSmith,

Did you ever see the CBO report addressing job loses do to Obamacare, (funny it wasn't here at MSNBC) .....

"The way I would put it," Elmendorf said, "is that we do estimate ... that employment will be about 160 million by the end of the decade. Half a percent of that is 800,000."

That number is 50% more than all the people who work for GM, Ford, and Chrysler combined.

And he is calculating with rigged numbers. How bad will it actually be?

Nancy said it would create 400,000 new jobs immediately with the total reaching 4 million. (Off by almost 5 million - typical)

Maybe she just got confused and meant 5 million lost jobs?

Whatever it turns out to be, be assured it will be closer to that confused number than her and Obama's original prediction.

Hatch, another Republican hypocrite. Hatch was the creator of the "Mandate" and now suddenly it's an awful idea. LOL

I.E. Hatch is saying, "I'll say or do anything the crazy Republican base wants me to do in order to keep my cushy govt job. Even if it means doing the opposite of the Democrats, no matter what. Even if doing the opposite now, means going against my own idea before."

My words, I told him to say that. Although his version was, shall we say...less colorful ;-0

Orrin Hatch has never questioned whether or not he would sell himself like a common prostitute. His only concerns have been "how much?" and "to whom?"

Orrin is the prime example of a senator who will sell his hide to the highest bidder.

I find him disgusting, dishonest, and corrupt. In other words, he really likes his job and will do just about anything to keep it.

bob: Did you ever see the CBO report addressing job loses do to Obamacare, (funny it wasn't here at MSNBC) ..... "The way I would put it," Elmendorf said, "is that we do estimate ... that employment will be about 160 million by the end of the decade. Half a percent of that is 800,000."

Numbers, numbers, and more numbers. What do they mean? Not much. An Ouija board would give better results.

Nancy said it would create 400,000 new jobs immediately with the total reaching 4 million. (Off by almost 5 million - typical)

Nancy sure did say this, and yet, no jobs. But Nancy says things just to say things. Nancy also said when she was sworn in as Speaker that she wouldn't add anything to the national debt. $5.5 trillion dollars of new debt later, Nancy isn't Speaker anymore.

Maybe she just got confused and meant 5 million lost jobs?

Nancy is bonkers. And now as Minority Leader, she's just kept around for entertainment purposes only.

Here's a question for Spanky: When do you think you and your fellow Americans will stop (or at least slow down) asking your country to provide things to or for you?

Since we've been told since at least the time of Ronald Reagan that we can have it all, low taxes, government programs, world wide defense, AND that deficits don't matter, the American people have readily agreed.

So, rather than talking about the national debt, let's talk about what parts of government that benefits YOU (not someone else) that you would be willing to give up. How about your mortgage deduction for starters?

All right, but what does he really think?...

Umm, bob, the quote you use is taken out of context and misinterpreted. The CBO did not say jobs would be lost. The CBO said that more folks would choose to work less or retire early as they won't be forced to work more, longer, or at the same jobs due to HCR. As noted here on p. 48 and 49. http://cbo.gov/ftpdocs/117xx/doc11705/08-18-Update.pdf

This legislation is indeed, a piece of crap ! Why else would 915 corporations BEG for exemptions.....and get them....granted by the White House ? Why is it that FOUR entire states have been granted exemptions ? Let's see....Ohio is voter rich, so is New Jersey and Florida...not sure how Tennessee got in there.....another election in 2012.......

Whatever happened to equal enforcement under the law ? Why did it take mammoth bribes and kickbacks to ram this through ?? Why wasn't Scott Brown allowed to vote on the bill ???

WHEN does the federal government have the right to force an individual to buy a product ...from a private company at that ? Why can the government fine an individual for an inaction ? Why are over half the states in our country suing the federal government over Obamacare ?

What do student loans have to do with health care legislation ? How much pork is embedded in this bill ? How many new federal agencies, departments, bureaus and czars are created ? Why does this bill totally FAIL to reduce the cost of health care ?

JUST ASKING...............................................................food for thought !

I see that Hatch actually read the law....as opposed to Nancy, Harry and Obama. Anyone that does knows that it is a piece of crap.

Obamacare does nothing to address the cost of healthcare, nor limit it. I have no idea how clueless you have to be to look at a problem and not look to what's causing the problem.

Gimmethenews: Buddy why are you using facts? Remember this is America, the land of the ignorant. We are ranked at the bottom in all Academic areas for a reason.

You are correct, the CBO said that people you know that work 2 jobs because they need the second for the healthcare, or they need the second to help pay for healthcare, will elect to only work 1 job because their healthcare will now be adequate.

Why thank you for asking NNRRESQ.

.

"Why else would 915 corporations BEG for exemptions.....and get them....granted by the White House ?"

Because there are NO exemptions, only waivers that allow companies to delay compliance with the law for one year. No more. No less. And Jim, I have responded to this from you before.

"Why is it that FOUR entire states have been granted exemptions ?"

Because the law provides for states to be able to use their own plan if it is as good as or better than what is provided for through HCR.

Orrin Hatch proves Pavlov correct. The Teabags ring the bell, and Orrin salivates.

When a politician will tell you anything you want to hear, he's probably more interested in re-election than in telling you the truth.

DrDr -

Hate to burst your bubble, but...

Well, no, I don't hate to burst your bubble -

Ohio, New Jersey, and Florida do not have 'their own plan', but Tennessee does.

What's to say the 915 entities won't be granted another 'waiver'?

Perhaps you should check your propaganda sources for accuracy before you spout lies.

"What's to say the 915 entities won't be granted another 'waiver'?"

Predicting the future again, Tammy? Why won't you EVER tell me tomorrow's lottery numbers?

"Ohio, New Jersey, and Florida do not have 'their own plan,' but Tennessee does."

And the first three have a temporary waiver.
From here: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/17/health/policy/17health.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=four%20states%20get%20waivers%20to%20carry%20out%20health%20law&st=cse

"To qualify for a waiver, a state, an employer or an insurer must show that compliance with the federal requirement would cause “a significant increase in premiums or a decrease in access to benefits.” Mr. Larsen said the administration had granted temporary waivers to the four states and to more than 900 health plans covering 2.4 million people, or fewer than 2 percent of all those with employer-sponsored insurance."

"Perhaps you should check your propaganda sources for accuracy before you spout lies."

Maybe you should do some research of your own before you tell others they are lying. Or is the NYT a "propaganda source" too?

Mince words all you like, States and hundreds of companies are being granted the ability to ignore this piece of crap legislation.

Tell me, why exactly are they asking for this if it is good for their employees or citizens?

The answer is it is not good for anyone involved - not the states, not companies, and not taxpayers.

But keep mincing words, no one who actually pays the bills cares what you little loonies think.

No, they aren't, and you saying so over and over doesn't make it any more true than the first time.

nope..... Orrin Hatch is a large piece of stinky, moldy crap!

If only the "vine" would make this blog truly functional - like.... well disabling that "!" collapse comment click which can be activated - simply because someone doesn't like your comment(s)... well, THAT would be something!!

Nancy P is the Palin of the Demos. What an intellect challenged person. Both of them.

AS for the health care mess. It is so loop hole ridden, only Obama's Corp and special interests people will not be paying for it. As always Obama lied yet again. This will cost the majority of the tax payers, Middle Class, Trillions of dollars. This bill will bankrupt the middle class......... Have you seen your Health Ins premiums yet. Mine went up 25% already and the bill has only been 10% enacted. If you pay $500.00 a month now it will be $1,500.00 in 2-4 years, and that is a very conservative estimate.

The health care mess will kill the middle class............Repeal it NOW.......

crap caliing crap, crap....politics today....only in America

0bamacare is no longer the law of the land - it has been ruled unconstitutional and this regime has done nothing to challenge that judge - ask for a stay or anything. The best thing tho is that we only have 616 days until we throw this regime out of office and then 75 days later we swear in the new POTUS. Hopefully one who will take the oath of office seriously and actually follow the laws of our country.

lol, best article ever! dont even know where to begin!

- mr hatch swearing the most PG rated words ever
- then apologizing for it
- being called a 'morman' (probably author's fault, but im just going to interpret it as some sort of diss, lol)
- blatantly lying and about a one size fits all program, as i am sure he is well aware that there are amendments allowing states to opt out of the affordable care act.
- not mentioning a word with respect to the fact that some of the most important aspects of the affordable care act were derived from his very own plan in the 90s
- the fact that his tongue is so far up the tea bagger butt that he could tell us what they had for lunch for the past two years (which is coincidentally, when the world came to existance)

That states and businesses have applied for waivers is neither a surprise nor a critique of the ACA.

The ACA sets a baseline standard. States will be granted waivers only when they show that they can meet it. Vermont, for example, is considering applying for a waiver because it wants to exceed the baseline by offering a single-payer plan. BTW, this also renders Hatch's point irrelevant, because states can design any plan they want to as long as it achieves the main goals of universal coverage and patient protection.

Businesses face the same requirements. High-tech companies offer generous benefit plans, and will want to keep offering them up until the point that they are not competitive necessities.

This is par for the course for teabaggers and teabagger wannabees, curse, criticise, but offer no solutions.

Nola -- He's also selling out his good friend Sen. Ted Kennedy and his efforts over the decades to provide health care. He couldn't just disagree with the law, he has to call it a piece of crap. He sounds very scared about the next election.

Irrelevant but true: I've always thought that with a celluloid collar he'd look like he belongs in a barbershop quartet.

Orrin Hatch is nothing but a sorry piece of sh--. and he no it . I have never seen a republican that cared or gave a dam about anbody that was not rich . the only time Hatch cares about the poor or the middleclass is at election time . then watch him crawl. I think it is time that hypocrites like him was voted out of office and sent back home with his tail between his legs. he as is most of the GOP are just against the healthcare bill because it is hurting his ever loved insurance companies . he is money hungry . we need term limits in congress to get guys like him out and get someone like him that cares about this country not the rich but all of this country . he is a piece of @!$%#

Hey Bob,

Boy the libs are really confused today over the fact that there is not just one Bob/bob, chasing around different threads......

I started to reply to your Rommney thread comment, but with a Bob, then a bobb, if a bob would have responded there would never be any hope of any of them recovering their sanity.

Bob

that's all you got....Ted in a brothel 50 years ago?

if I want good whore stories and more up to date....I'll get a hold of

Senator Vitter of LA

Not sure Vitter swam away to save his ass while a woman drowned in a tidal basin. Also not sure if Vitter got kicked out of Harvard for cheating. Not sure if Vitter's father was an acknowledged bootlegger.

Is that all you got dunebuggy ?

Well Jim.....

since I responded to Mr Bob addressing "whorehouses"....and Vitter visited "whorehouses"...

that's all I need there Jim!

btw - I didn't see Mr Bob address tidal basins, cheating, fathers.....that was something you felt you needed to add since you needed to feel better about Vitter being a whoremonger....

paly that game by yourself Jim......if that's all you got!

"play"

Or could it POSSIBLY be that you have it completely bass ackwards?

Maybe he IS worried about the uncomprehensible amount of debt that we are going to (further) incur because of this piece of crap legistlation?

But hey....liberals have never met a dollar of other peoples money they havent liked

Either way - the point for all of them, republicans, democrats, union folk, tea partiers - is that the focus and discussion is on the debt and the deficit.

And that is a fantastic development. Unless you suck at the public tit. If that's where you get yours, yours is going to be a very hard road to hoe.

Next there will be discussions about paying DOWN the debt. That's where the real fun begins my libbie friends.

ND, He had better take that mask off first! The guy is a shameful panderer. If you listen to guys like Larry, Hatch is a dead man walking.

Amen, devie: Wonder what Larry will do if the Republicans cut off funding to ND? It survives by getting a lot more money from the Fed then it ever puts in. Close Minot Air Force Base.

How dare we provide health-care coverage to our own Tax paying Americans! We should let them bleed to death at the door of the ER!

Orrin, we hardly know ye...

STOP THE PRESSES!!!!

Larry 2767404 praises Oriin Hatch for telling the truth for the first time in 34 years as a Senator...

Atta Boy Larry!

Guys don't you get it? Hatch is using the emotional defense mechanism known as "projection." (Your own traits and emotions are attributed to someone or something else).

You mean contribute like writing an idea on a piece of paper and slide it under the locked door the Democrats were hiding behind (Hey.... hiding..... like the Wisconsin Democrats.... must be a democrat / liberal thing?) and then telling them that he will pander their every liberal want just as long as he can play?

Im glad he called this spade a spade.

Well, [public employee unions of Wisconsin] you had your chance to contribute to the [Republican] legislation, and you chose not to contribute or vote for it. [YOU LOST] So you have sour grapes NOW??

You mean the Party of GO.

Pietro:

The same thing can be said about the people of Wisconsin. They had an election and the Liberals LOST! Deal with it. Isn't that what was said to Republicans in 08? Elections have consequences....remember that.

What is the difference in this man putting forth HIS policy and Obama putting forth HIS policies? They both were elected and there is a way to reverse the policies; ELECTIONS.

ITM - if there ever was a poster boy for someone who ALWAYS puts his nasty, crusty, crunchy foot in his mouth, it is you. You would think you would havw figured that out by now.

You know better than to step to me with that drivel you are posting.

In case you missed it, Hatch is bemoaning the HCR bill that passed DESPITE his best effort(s) to derail it. He has to DEAL with it now.

What does that have to do with policy?

Go back to sleep, ITM, no one cares enough to wake you.

Well, [public employee unions of Wisconsin] you had your chance to contribute to the [Republican] legislation, and you chose not to contribute or vote for it. [YOU LOST] So you have sour grapes NOW??

What has Orrin Hatch of UTAH, talking about the HEALTH CARE BILL, have to do with public employee unions in WISCONSIN?

I can see your head is exploding, Bob.

Get back to me when you have picked up the remaining pieces off the floor.

to In the Middle TX (AKA hell),

The phrase "elections have consequences" came from Darth Cheney while talking about Supreme court appointments. Boy was he right, the Teabaggers/repubs. got what they wanted when the SCROTUS declared corporations people.

Pietro it really is no fun if you refuse to try, or in this case think.

Come on sport use your big brain. Now tell us again about the lack of a connection here. You can do it!

But your actual or feigned ignorance is amusing, so thaks for that.

And Pat, not for nothing, but that has been the law - corporations are legal entities forever. But for fun try this - google CACI jury instructions for a corporation. Specifically try CACI 104 Nonperson Party. I suspect you may find it interesting.

You go Pat!

I'm very offended that you'd associate your crap with Houston.

Well put since apparrently he thinks we aren't worthy of sensible health care. Maybe Orrin needs to go back and read the ACA. I believe the States can form their own plan. What a windbag!

What is crap is you wearing the H-town name.

BS Detector

I'm very offended that you'd associate your crap with Houston.

Not mine. I just borrowed the words right out of Orrin Hatch's toilet mouth (wearing rubber gloves while doing it).

BTW, BS: You're a lot better at producing BS than detecting it.

And now Houston has also put himself in the running for the Massengill Award of the day !

No matter what insults you want to throw out, it doesn't change the fact that Orrin Hatch was one of the pieces of GOP crap that were for an individual health insurance mandate before they were against it.

really?? I don;t recall seeing where obamacare was government paid healthcare.

How? And how would you know? We had to pass it to see what was in it and the stuff that has trickled out is crap. Most of it won't be implemented for years, (please god never!) and the government will be running it. What does the govt run that works? Dept of education is created and our education plunges through the floor. The dept of energy is created and we import more energy at higher prices than ever. The epa is created and wacko pagan earth worshippers destroy entire communities and industries to 'save' some stupid animal that the world would never miss. The armed forces, one of the few expenditures obligated to the feds by the constitution and they even screw that up. Gigantic, extra-constitutional govt. is killing this country in every way. Dim witted, parasites who love living on other peoples labor vote for it and the rest of us have no choice but support you. Well the gravy train has come to a stop, the producers can't keep up with the demand from the slugs, now we will have third world violence in the streets by said slugs because they feel entitled to other peoples stuff.

MaryAnn 289,

Republicans hate government because without the government, corporations get to do whatever they want, enabling the corporations who feel they're entitled to peoples labor without reasonable compensation so the CEO's can suck ever larger amounts and pay no taxes. Businesses hire people because those people make them money. Gigantic, too big for their own britches to fail, greedy beyond belief, corporations led to the financial disaster we live in today, Not government, fat cat Mr. Potters (New Bedford Falls, NY) parasites. Republicans rail against Uncle Sam (so why do they want to run it?), says everything the government (We the People) touches turns to crap, then when elected do all they can to prove their own lies.

The last Republican run government was for sale to the highest bidder (Jack Abramhoff, TomDelay et al)

But totally not Obama, right?

Say, how many times has Trumka been to the White House? Is he just chatting it up, or is Trumka "bidding?'

Golly Pat, you do make this pretty easy. Thanks.

Pat -

What conservatives 'hate' is out-of-control government - which it has become. The democrats are just the worst of the recent offenders with 5x the deficit spending than occured under Bush and a republican Congress (yet liberals ran on a pledge to decrease deficit spending in 2006).

Obamacare is a disaster as it does absolutely nothing to address the actual drivers behind health care costs yet allows big pharma and the health insurance industry to grow even larger on the back of an already over-burdened taxpayer. It doesn't even make sure that everyone is 'covered', but merely swaps one group for another (the democrats admitted this before the final passage of the 'legislation').

Financial 'reform' does nothing to rein in the biggest offenders - Fannie, Freddie, and derivatives trading - in the financial meltdown in 2008, yet it passed when it shouldn't have.

Credit card 'reform' has done nothing except tighten credit, increase fees, and increase interest rates - and all because people wouldn't keep track of what was happening on their own.

Obama couldn't get cap and trade passed in Congress, yet he is pushing the EPA to regulate carbon - over-stepping his authority.

Is the governmentout-of-control?

YES! - and conservatives will do everything in our power stop the run-away train called the federal government.

Amen

Because they are in a situation where they have EARNED (well som of them have....like Rand and Ron Paul etc) the right to have the public pay for their healthcare while doing the work of the people...

What exactly have you done to "deserve" me paying for your healthcare again?

This is exactly the problem with liberals.... don't want to actually do anything to earn money but think that you are entitled to the same benefits people who actually work and dont suckle on the gov't teet get.

Larry .. have you earned the right to health care? Ever been in the military? Lots of liberals, moderates and conservatives in the military work to defend this country. You implying that only conservatives in the military earned that right to health care and the rest...didn't? Got news for you... it's unconstitutional to discriminate against anyone on the basis of their political party. if you don't believe me, go ask any JAG on any major U.S. military base.

And take note that we all pay taxes, rich or poor. We all earned the right to health care.

If you don't believe me, try traveling to other, well-established, stable, democratic industrialized countries, and see how they solved their health care problems. The U.S is the world's only backwards holdout, for not offering subsidized health care for all of its citizens. For example, try talking to members in the Conservative Party, in Canada. These conservatives consider health care a human right. Or for that matter, most of the EU. Or industrialized parts of Asia.

I pay my taxes, thus, in my opinion, I deserve health care as it is a human right as it is part of the obligation of ANY government to care for its citizens' basic needs. If the government --any government -- didn't strive to do that, you might as well have either a self-serving dictatorship, or anarchy. Last I checked, you conservatives want as little government as possible where it becomes a state of laissez-faire anarchy, for all practical purposes.

But for people like you, I'm sure that government subsidized health care is a human wrong if that person isn't as conservative like you, since you think all non-conservatives didn't supposedly earn it, eh?

and if the health care reform is so great why did congress exempth themselves from it.

For the one bazillionth time: CONGRESS DID NOT EXEMPT THEMSELVES!!!!

They will get their insurance from the exchanges beginning in 2014. See here: http://www.healthcare.gov/law/timeline/index.html

dear larry

if these people practiced what they preached, they would reject the "government sponsored health coverage" provided to all members of Congress and they would buy insurance on the open market !!! but being the hypocrites that they are, they have no problem denying the American public coverage but accepting it for themselves !!!

C,mon stupid teabaggers, where are the jobs??

I agree with you, Dancnman.

WHERE ARE THE JOBS, REPUBLICAN TEA PARTIERS?

democrats got two years and no jobs and that was ok the republicans have had what two months and you are complaining. just sit back a relax.

Yeah,' two years and no jobs'? Look around, they're coming. It takes a while for such a large course correction to take effect. Can't fix W's errors overnight man.

he's had 34 years to come up with one.....

Actually they are not trying to take away benefits from union members they just want them to help contribute to the benefits instead of getting it all for free. Also if members of congress want a cadillac healthplan they also have to contribute to it they can get a basic plan free but if they want a really really good one they have to contribute I'm sure they don't contribute 25% but they do contribute.

"Over 600 companies have filed for waivers to escape from that piece of crap"

They get a 1 year extension before they have to comply. No more. No less.

DrDr -

And we all know that the 'waiver' will be extended next year, and the next, and the next - contingent on political 'donations', of course.

Thanks, Michael!

Micheal

And what happens in 2 years when she is no longer covered? Pass another law say a child can be on parents healthcare until---DEATH??

See,when does it end?? When will she get out of your house and on her own??

"And we all know that the 'waiver' will be extended next year, and the next, and the next - contingent on political 'donations', of course."

Tammy has the crystal ball out again. Or else she has a direct line to Miss Cleo.

if your daughter is 24 why is doesn't she have coverage is she in school well then she would have been able to stay on your insurance anyway if she isn't in school why isn't she working and buying her own insurance and if she has a handicap there are already things in place to help with her healthcare. If at 24 she can't take care of herself when will she be able to take care of herself?