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During remarks at a meeting with a bipartisan group of governors on Monday, President Obama waded into the debates going on in states like Wisconsin, where the governor is battling unions over collective bargaining rights, and New Jersey, whose chief executive has consistently argued the state must reduce its commitments to state workers.
AP
President Obama speaks during a bi-partisan meeting of governors in the State Dining Room of the White House in Washington today.
"Those of you who are in this room obviously are on the front lines of the budget debate," Obama said.
He joked that even if the governors did not admit it, the Recovery Act had helped them deal with budget challenges over the past two years, but said that as those funds phased out states faced touch choices on everything from schools to prisons to pensions. He mentioned his own move to freeze the salaries of federal employees for two years because of the country's tough fiscal situation and said that everyone should be prepared to give up something to solve our shared budget challenges.
"I think most public servants agree with that," the president said. "Democrats and Republicans agree with that. In fact many public employees in your respective states have already agreed to cuts. But let me also say this, I don't think it does anybody any good when public employees are denigrated or vilified or their rights are infringed upon."
The president, who also used his remarks to continue to make his case for investments in education, innovation, infrastructure to "win the future", went on to argue that in order to attract the best and brightest teachers, firemen and others to public service, they must be fairly compensated for their work.
"So yes we need conversation about pensions and Medicare and Medicaid and other promises that we've made as a nation and those will be tough conversations but necessary conversations," he continued. "As we make these decisions about our budget going forward though, I believe that everyone should be at the table and the concept of shared sacrifice should prevail."
The budget battles in places like Wisconsin, Ohio and Indiana and other states have taken center stage as lawmakers struggle to balance state budgets in the face of declining tax receipts and high unemployment. New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie has made a name for himself by talking tough about his state's need to bring down the cost of state pensions and other programs.
Among those governors in attendance in the State Dining Room in the room were Illinois' Pat Quinn, Oregon's John Kitzhaber, Texas' Rick Perry, Mississippi's Haley Barbour, South Carolina's Nikki Haley, New Jersey's Christie, Virginia's Bob McDonnell and Massachusetts' Deval Patrick.
Obama to Barbour: Here's lookin' at you?
There was a light moment near the beginning of the president's remarks when he shared a little 2012 humor, sparking a moment of uproarious laughter.
"I hope today all of you feel free to make yourselves at home," he told the group of governors. "For those of you with a particular interest in the next election, I don't mean that literally."
Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour, considering a 2012 run, was in attendance.
Administration officials who attended the event, which included a question-and-answer session with the governors that was closed to cameras, included Chief of Staff Bill Daley, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, US Trade Representative Ron Kirk and Gene Sperling, the director of the National Economic Council.
Obama also spoke about his support for moving up the date by which states can use waivers on mandates for the health care under the Affordable Care Act -- provided they can offer plans that cover as many people and cut costs -- and about his request to governors to create a bipartisan group to work with Secretary Sebelius on ways to reduce Medicaid costs.
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Thanks Athena
They'll never admit it hapenned; but they will lie. Think progress has a list of all who benefited.
I like that sit at table analogy too; but don't get comfortable. Our President really knows how to rub it in. That's why he is "No Drama Obama"
The only shared sacrifice prevailing GOP/ TB is they have to admit they have been outfoxed.
Say there Bev, did you catch that article in the New York Times this weekend about those EEEVVVILLL Koch Bros.?
Very enlightening, no? Can you believe all those "liberal" causes they stand for and support? Gosh, seems that you have a whole lot in common with those bastards, huh?
So do you 1. ignore that information, 2. accept it and re-calibrate/look for a new villian, or c. accept the world for the complicated and interesting place that it is, and maybe not treat Maddow, et. al. as gospel?
Naw, we know you'll continue to spout the same old same old, cause that is really all you got. Anything else would require actual critical thought, and come on that's just not possible, is it dear?
It was the unions who BUILT the middle class in this country!
That is a major factor in WHY Teapublicans are hell bent on destroying them - no matter what the cost!
Good Afternoon Bev:
You know, it's a sad day in America when public servants are denigrated or vilified. The workers and laborers who keep America operating deserve to be treated with respect. The Koch brothers and Governor Walker have no idea what we are talking about when we demonstrate respect to hard working Americans.
So if it's all about the unions, and we all know you really are only talking about public sector unions, why is only 12% of the country in a union?
Are you Ron?
This isn't about workers and laborers. THis is about taxpayers against absurd contracts with unsupportable benefits. Looks like the taxpayers expect the unions to "pay their fair share."
And that's gotta hurt, the taxpayers pushing back with the unions' favorite line. Oh my!
But hey, just how much coin does Trumka make? And just how many times does he need to go to the White House?
Any more progress on a balancing your 2012 budget Obama? Or is $1.65 Trillion in deficit you final offer? Because you see Obama, the states can't do what you do, and spend billions they don't have, they have to have something called a "Balanced budget". And part getting into balance is telling the unions in those states they aren't paying their fair-share of the burden. The taxpayers are over-burdened with paying for all the benefits and pensions the unions and their memebers feel they are entitled to. It's time the unions paid up though Mr. Obama, it seems they aren't paying their fair-share, and haven't done so for some time.
It is really a sad day in America when public employees think they are entitled to more, much more in fact, than the private citizen taxpayers can only dream about having.
The Middle Class was one hell of alot Larger in this Country Until Unions started Organizing. FACT.
Spanky, by your logic then the 9% unemployment is no big deal, because it is only 9% of the population that is a part of it...think much?
Huh, maybe Bev. didn't catch that article after all? I thought she'd be all over it. Or perhaps it's a comprehension issue.
And I figured Ron would have chimed in and advised us which union he belongs to. But alas, no.
Steve, I dispute your "FACT" and demand proof. I'll be waiting here for said proof. Just try to get it to me by the turn of the century, ok? I have things to do.
And Spankster - union members pay taxes too buddy. Plese try not to forget that. As difficult as it may seem to understand.
The posters who attempt to rewrite the history of unions are simply in denial by choice, an effort to be right by twisting the facts. Middle class wages began declining as the GOP systematically worked to demonize and eliminate unions in the private sector. That process began with Reagan. The decline in wages runs parallel to the decline in private sector union participation. The goal the GOP has now is to attack the public sector unions. If they succeed, then every worker's wages and benefits will continue to decline because by eliminating the higher paying jobs with the better benefits, the competition is gone. Those who buy into this demonization of unions will pay a high price for their unwillingness to think for themselves, to study the real history of collective bargaining and its impact on workers; unfortunately, those who do understand will suffer the consequences as well.
How gracious of them.
But union members do not pay for their benefits and pensions, and that's the way they want to keep it.
Yea, Brian....union members pay taxes too...with TAXPAYER money....lol
Spankster:
In the case of Wisconsin, Spanky, they seem to be spending it all on one side, and NOT the liberal side.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/22/us/22koch.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=koch%20brothers&st=cse
And this seems to contradict your statements as well:
Surged, indeed. In fact, I believe that the Koch boys poured nearly $3.5 million into Wisconsin AGAINST Walker's opponent, Tom Barrett. Hmmm ... that doesn't sound very liberal to me, Spanky. If they do give money to liberal causes, it must be because they figure they can ultimately sell us paper products.
After all, with the BS being spread out here, we're going to need it.
But thanks for pointing me towards the article. VERY enlightening, indeed.
You'd think that would be so obvious it should go without saying. Judging from the reaction already on this thread apparently not.
When Americans are asked why not send your children/grandchildren to private school?
The answer is always it's too expensive and private school teachers are way overpaid.
You get stories about private school teachers having their housing paid, having vacation homes in other states, having a car for every child, a boat, swimming pool, etc.
JAS1: But union members do not pay for their benefits and pensions, and that's the way they want to keep it.
That's not entirely true and you know it. But in order to push the GOP/TP agenda forward, you would have the people believe that.
Spanky-
Say there Bev, did you catch that article in the New York Times this weekend about those EEEVVVILLL Koch Bros.?
Very enlightening, no? Can you believe all those "liberal" causes they stand for and support? Gosh, seems that you have a whole lot in common with those bastards, huh?
Spanky must you always be so ridiculous?
In Budget Bill, Wisconsin Gov. Walker Pushing for No-Bid Sales of State-Owned Power Plants:
Yes they are evil because they first of all they don't mind killing people and the planet. If the Koch brothers can bust up unions they don't have comply with government regulations.
The next thing is they lied about their association with the fake Tea baggers.
Koch companies value free speech and believe it is good to have more Americans engaged in key policy issues. That said, Koch companies, the Koch foundations, Charles Koch and David Koch have no ties to and have never given money to FreedomWorks. In addition, no funding has been provided by Koch companies, the Koch foundations, Charles Koch or David Koch specifically to support the tea parties. Thanks for your consideration."
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/04/right-wing_backers_koch_industries_we_dont_specifi.php
============================================================
Well, now we know better since Gov Stupid @aa exposed them.
So really, things don't go better with Koch, pronounced coke, and Free"Dumb" Works.
Spanky-
Huh, maybe Bev. didn't catch that article after all? I thought she'd be all over it. Or perhaps it's a comprehension issue.
And I figured Ron would have chimed in and advised us which union he belongs to. But alas, no.
No Spanky-, I was away from my desk for a while. is that okay?
One of my jobs first out of high school was unionized. We went on strike. I was a teamster. The company tried way back then to freeze our wages take our insurance away away amongst other things. We even got our supper money if we worked overtime. Hoffa was alive then. With collecting bargaining we got everything we wanted then.
Now, it's different with all this union busting.
Hey all of you "progressives" (6 or so......can't seem to gain any more loyal followers here on MSNBC......curious) . I've got an idea for you.
Since you are all so bent on supporting your fellow far-left crazies, why don't you head down to the capital this Thursday so you can support the "Muslims for Sharia Law in America" movement. They will be protesting outside the White House from 1pm to 4pm. I'm sure that they could use your help. Seems like a cause you people could really get behind.
Ron,
Public servants are not being denigrated and villified. Walker has been very respectful of public servants. The national discussion is not about public servants - the national discussion is about UNIONS, state debt, etc.
Obama has said he is a uniter. Then he intrudes in a state affair, sides with the unions and then characterizes it this way.
Uniter? What a joke.
Obama is the MOST devisive president in modern history. Every time he opens his mouth, he just makes it worse. 2012 can't get here fast enough!
There you are bobby...
Hey they're looking for you over on the Romney thread!
Why did you run away? LMAO!
Kind of 'stepped in it'... didn't you? ;o)
So, now obama wants us to give up our first amendment rights and beverly wants us to believe that "think progressive" has the answers.
Bob-180... - of course obama is a uniter, that is what he wants public unions to do, unite! lol! But I digress.
Where are the jobs Obama???
Feisty...are you headed to Washington for Thursday's "Muslims for Sharia Law in America" protests? Seems like your kind of movement.
american...bev can't understand that NO ONE believes thinkprogress is a news organization. She keeps posting links to it and we keep laughing our a$$es off!
If the taxpayers think the public employee unions are giving them a bad deal, I wonder why we never hear so much about no-bid contracts? Who all thinks THOSE are a GOOD deal for us?
(paid posters can reply, too)
"But union members do not pay for their benefits and pensions, and that's the way they want to keep it."
Funny- that's not what the rest of us have been hearing on the news lately....
True American-2366567
Feisty...are you headed to Washington for Thursday's "Muslims for Sharia Law in America" protests? Seems like your kind of movement.
Well, unAmerican what could be worst than a Tea bagger attacking women?
Top 10 Shocking Attacks from the GOP War on Women
1) Republicans not only want to reduce women's access to abortion care, they're actually trying to redefine rape. After a major backlash, they promised to stop. But they haven't.
2) A state legislator in Georgia wants to change the legal term for victims of rape, stalking, and domestic violence to "accuser." But victims of other less gendered crimes, like burglary, would remain "victims."
3) In South Dakota, Republicans proposed a bill that could make it legal to murder a doctor who provides abortion care. (Yep, for real.)
4) Republicans want to cut nearly a billion dollars of food and other aid to low-income pregnant women, mothers, babies, and kids.
5) In Congress, Republicans have proposed a bill that would let hospitals allow a woman to die rather than perform an abortion necessary to save her life.
6) Maryland Republicans ended all county money for a low-income kids' preschool program. Why? No need, they said. Women should really be home with the kids, not out working.
7) And at the federal level, Republicans want to cut that same program, Head Start, by $1 billion. That means over 200,000 kids could lose their spots in preschool.
8) Two-thirds of the elderly poor are women, and Republicans are taking aim at them too. A spending bill would cut funding for employment services, meals, and housing for senior citizens.
9) Congress voted yesterday on a Republican amendment to cut all federal funding from Planned Parenthood health centers, one of the most trusted providers of basic health care and family planning in our country.
10) And if that wasn't enough, Republicans are pushing to eliminate all funds for the only federal family planning program. (For humans. But Republican Dan Burton has a bill to provide contraception for wild horses. You can't make this stuff up).
The imbeciles on the right like Stevie-o, Spanky, and safecracraker who migrate here have no idea what Shariaa law is since it doesn't exist in America.
I know how you find your thrills watching Fox LIES.
Learn something you xenophobe.
What applies within one school of Sharia law does not necessarily apply in the other schools.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/islsharia.htm
american...bev can't understand that NO ONE believes thinkprogress is a news organization. She keeps posting links to it and we keep laughing our a$$es off!
Would you believe those government docutments exist? You can get these in pdf form by going to the states websites.
Feisty,
From yesterday.
Clara and Bevewly,
I know you two are in a constant state of confusion, but you may have Bob confused with bob.
Bob is a smart guy, but he is not the guy that mocked your guys imaginary friends with his imaginary friend's barf-off. Bob is not the bob that has to read Bev's comical comments in Elmer Fudd's voice to make it through the whole post.
Thought you might want to know.
Try to keep up.
Bob-1887910 is not bob-1805084: Bob is not bob.
I wasn't on the Romney thread.
Besides Feisty, I never run from anything, I'm the mean nasty bob on the "white horse", "studley dudley", "bobble head bobby", "booby trap" blah blah.....
I know you guys are slow, but really .....
Bev....let me get this straight.
You are equating whatever differences we have among ourselves here in America to Muslims trying to bring Sharia Law to the United States?
Do you know what Sharia law is?
btw.....WHERE did you get those 10 statements? (#6 - you do know that maryland is one of the MOST left-leaning states in the union, don't you?)
Sweet Jesus! Now they're cloning themselves! lol
My mistake Bobby - strange that the two of you sound identical!
You mean to tell me we have two Bob's on board with a drinking problem?
Then again, all the right wing posters around here do....
True American-2366567
Bev....let me get this straight.
You are equating whatever differences we have among ourselves here in America to Muslims trying to bring Sharia Law to the United States?
Do you know what Sharia law is?
The study of sharia includes subjects such as Islamic law, Islamic philosophy, and Arabic. It depends on how it's practiced.
http://www.newstatesman.com/200611270016
The austerities practiced under the Taliban and Al queda to me is not en than the Gop/Tea baggers assault on women and minorities.
btw.....WHERE did you get those 10 statements?
Make sure your friends see this!
http://pol.moveon.org/waronwomen/?id=26177-8047513-PIzfc5x&t=3
True American,
Thinkprogress doesn't seem to have posted anything on Sharia, in otherwords she's clueless. She once actually stated that human rights violations in America were worse than in China!
Bev,
What is worse than cutting a few dollars from head start, etc ......
I don't know ....... maybe stoning women to death for alleged extra-marital affairs ...... genital mutilation of little girls ....... and about a 1,000 other things under Sharia.
So clueless.
moveon.org......I ALMOST FELL OFF MY CHAIR LAUGHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, you are in favor of Sharia law in America......Sweetie, it doesn't depend on how it's practiced. Look up Taquiyya if you dare.
Steve,
Your comment is a total load of bull as usual.
So do you think the labor laws and safety standards were better in the 1800's? You are sadly mistaken.
Unions are not the problem. Shipping jobs overseas, lowering the wages of average Americans and offering them inferior crap at lower prices at Wal-Mart is. Better watch out for those falling prices there Steve they just might take you with them.
True American-2366567
The austerities practiced under the Taliban and Al queda to me is not any differnt than the Gop/Tea baggers assault on women and minorities.
What about the death sentence and torture of innocent men in jail?
Former Chicago Police Cmdr. Jon Burge of CHICAGO was convicted after decades. Young black men in Chicago first began claiming that a white policeman shocked, burned and suffocated them to get a fake confession under duress. He only got 4 and 1/2 years for perjury plus his pension.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/21/jon-burge-sentencing-vict_n_812081.html
Bev....there you go again with links to places like Huffington Post..............PLEASE, I beg you to read some REAL and CREDIBLE news sources.
you say.......The austerities practiced under the Taliban and Al queda to me is not any differnt than the Gop/Tea baggers assault on women and minorities.
That says it all............you are too far gone, you are certifiable. I'm sorry, there is just no hope for you.
I hope that Sharia Law works out well for you when you are covered from head to toe with only your eyes poking out when you are repeatedly raped and then stoned to death for it. GOOD LUCK, 'cause you're gonna need it.
Do you know who Choudry is?
True American,
What makes you think Bev Doesn't support Sharia Law already? She has not yet Denounced it..
Bev?...................
Steve, I do think she supports it, she just said as much in the above post. I just never thought she would actually ADMIT it!
I'd like to see her take her little passport and head on over to the middle east and then spout off that bullsh!t..........these people (feisty, bev, louisj, johnb, and our newest addition, bryan) are out of their f'ing minds......seriously, they are off their collective rockers!!!
For those of you who believe as JoannaSmith does that "union members do not pay for their benefits and pensions, and that's the way they want to keep it."...
Read this:
Looks like my link got deleted. I'll try it again.
Nope. Oh well. It was to an article in Forbes by Rick Unger that explains why taxpayers don't pay for public sector unions' pensions and benefits. Maybe, if you really want to know, you can google it.
Heartlight3
Looks like my link got deleted. I'll try it again.
Nope. Oh well. It was to an article in Forbes by Rick Unger that explains why taxpayers don't pay for public sector unions' pensions and benefits. Maybe, if you really want to know, you can google it.
I posted it earlier. Don't worry I got your back
The Wisconsin Lie Exposed – Taxpayers Actually Contribute Nothing To Public Employee Pensions
Governor Walker has gotten away with this false narrative because journalists have failed to look closely at how employee pension plans work and have simply accepted the Governor's word for it.
Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin' s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers.
http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/25/the-wisconsin-lie-exposed-taxpayers-actually-contribute-nothing-to-public-employee-pensions/
@True American-2366567
Bev....there you go again with links to places like Huffington Post..............PLEASE, I beg you to read some REAL andCREDIBLE news sources.
I live in Chicago what more proof do you need?
Former Chicago Police Cmdr. Jon Burge of CHICAGO was convicted after decades. Young black men in Chicago first began claiming that a white policeman shocked, burned and suffocated them to get a fake confession under duress. He only got 4 and 1/2 years for perjury plus his pension.
Check out the chicago tribune or Suntimes if you don't believe Huff po.
Notice the language in this post - '...struggle to balance state budgets in the face of declining tax receipts and high unemployment.'
Do you think that, as a person RESPONSIBLE for a state government, that you would do SOMETHING about the 'declining tax receipts' and 'high unemployment', which in fact CONTRIBUTES to those 'declining tax receipts'???
Don't you think that would be your FIRST priority?
I am just sayin.
Yeah, Feisty, my thoughts, too -
either way they both misspelled boob, as far as I can tell.
bev chicago............... as far as your complaints about the abortion money and laws. it is murder to kill .So any doctor who kills should then face the same fate,Dr. Tiller got what deserved and he still has hell to look forward to,if rape is proven then let a court decide the childs fate that way only a few will be judged by god,but useing tax payers money makes them a part of the death af a human being and taht is not fair.
America's best bet in these tough times is to stay with an intelligent PResident that has already turned around
- 787,000 job losses a month on Jan 2009 to postive jobs growth two years later
- negative 6% GDP growth to 2% GDP growth
- failing banks including the third largest bank in the US to a more stable financial industry
- $700b bailout out of the door in 2008 to bailout being paid back and judiciously managed into profit
- what was trending towards depression to now a slightly growing economy within two years
J. Richter
I know this, the majority of American knows this, the economist knows this, but your wasting your time posting this here, most who appose the president like No Jo, Joanna, Steve, Bob don't care, to them Obama should have waved his black magic wand and fixed everything in 3 years with out raising tax, giving more tax cuts, getting rid of the department of education, and getting rid getting of those dam unions.
so while i agree with you, you would be better to talk to those who agree with you and that are the Harvard economist. because the people who i mentioned are as dumb as a bag of rocks.
see my point look down and you will see a post from the dumbest rock in the bag. Joanna!!!
A few things you left out Mr./Ms. Richter:
- $14 trillion is debt - $4 trillion in deficit spending since Obama took office - massive record breaking deficit every year, chronic 9-10% unemployment - gas on its way to $4 a gallon - anemic job creation.
No one was looking for Obama to solve all the problems of the country. But instead of fixing even one problem, he's created quite a few more.
J. Richter
i just proved my point, if she would just knock some since in her head she would know that Obama is correcting Bush's accounting that left the wars off the books and has not included medicade part D to the books as well.
she is so Full of Dog crap, she wants nothing but to get rid of HCR, but the real cost to the deficts is medicade part D 6 trillion toward the deficts over a 8 year period, a unfunded mandate she loves to not either mention, forget or just a bag of rocks that is not smart enough to think with out Rush or Fox telling what to think. she also thinks that we had a surplus when Bush left Office, See bag of rocks, a waste of Human thinking.
But Richter, to Joanna George Bush was the greatest president over Ronald reagan.
J. Richter:
You are right on point and Jeff - You called it. They came out on Que. Same old same old.
Nice post J. Richter and nice forecasting Jeff - Kudos to both.
The deficit problems are not the fault of the Unions, see my post on FT #1 and the supporting links. With that aside this was never about deficits. It is about "Busting Unions", nothing more nothing less. The unions have already accepted the pay cuts.
JoAnna:
Well, that's at least a step in the right direction, JoAnna -- admitting that there were problems BEFORE President Obama took office. Can full kool-aid recovery be far behind?
Oh, and by the way, which problems have the republicans solved so far? I left you some space to fill in the blank.
Oh, that's right, they've been too busy destroying women's rights to reproductive health care, taking symbolic votes doomed to failure, standing up to yell, "NO, NO, NO," and REALLY important stuff like that.
Me? I'm still waiting for one proposal -- just one -- that isn't about taking money away from the poor to give it to the rich. Just one proposal that has as its target the CREATION of jobs. Just one.
The right continues to ignore the debt amassed by President Bush and his GOP majority--they doubled the national debt; Bush added 89% to the debt and in 8 years and that was done by UNFUNDED spending for everything. Didn't hear a peep of protest those 6 years when the GOP had total control, no Tea Party rallies protesting government spending--nothing, zip, zero, nada. We've just suffered the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression and it started in Dec 2007 on Bush's watch--so declaring the budget problems today, the necessary deficit spending required to stop the free fall, as President Obama's fault is simply stupid and blindly ideological. Hypocrisy, thy name is conservative.
Anna Molly, we'll be waiting a long time before the right proposes anything that might interfere with their corporate masters profits.
AM: You continue your spiral into the great abyss. You certainly have your talking points down, and you regurgitate them very well. But Obama's Presidency is now half over, and what does he have to show for it? Not a heck of a lot, well, other than a 2012 budget proposal with a $1.65 TRILLION dollar deficit. Is that best he can do? Apparently it is. And you can see the fear in Obama's eyes with his precious unions. After Obama calling the governors challenge of the unions an "assault", Obama backed off because getting control of the state unions is critical to those states staying solvent, and Obama knew he was on the wrong side of that issue. Now he makes timid references to the unions, begs the governors "Please be nice to my unions, they're all I got". Sure Obama, just keep begging.
I don't recall ever saying there were no problems before Obama took office, or for that matter when any President took office. If you have a reference to where I did say it, please provide it. Do you enjoy setting up and knocking down straw-man arguments? Does it make you feel pious?
" But Obama's Presidency is now half over, and what does he have to show for it?"
Palin and that one old guy are not running things, for starters....
And that's good wnough for one hell of a lot of us!
JoAnnaSmith1
Not a heck of a lot, well, other than a 2012 budget proposal with a $1.65 TRILLION dollar deficit. Is that best he can do?
Well its alot better than the guy he replaced Joanna.
I don't recall ever saying there were no problems before Obama took office, or for that matter when any President took office. If you have a reference to where I did say it, please provide it. Do you enjoy setting up and knocking down straw-man arguments? Does it make you feel pious?
So i guess slamming your head a few times has made you finnaly say something with a original thought. Good Joanna, Now what next, are you going to say that medicade part D is costing us 6 trillion on the deficts over 8 years, and that Bush did not put the money we spend on both wars on the books finnaly.
come on you can DO IT!!!!!! it will not hurt.
jeff-154... Lmao! ref post 2.1& 2.3....
So tell us ... Were you born stupid or do you practice at it? please do tell us (along with j richter) where are the jobs?? How is fanny and freddy doing? Will GM stock ever get to $50 +/per share? Will chrysler pay us back? Where were the democrats? On vacation? Ever even look at what history teaches us about the frequency of recessions?
Jody post 2.7 - other than your professed hatred of anything republican care to inform us on when the tea party was formed?. I see that you as well as many other FR libbies have chosen the path of always and fervently dwelling in the past and having no regards for the future of America. Ever think about going forward? Or does your vehicle only have a reverse gear and bent tie rods causing you to always go into the ditch?
Anna molly - seems that roe vs wade is still on the books and that healthcare is not being refused to women for any reason, unless you think that it is the governments responsibility to pay for womens healthcare.
As for NO, NO, NO that seems more like the democrats mantra to villify, denigrate and deamonize the republicans for not supporting the democrats spending plans.
Now, get your head out of your azz, clean out your ears, wipe your shlt from your eyes
. and read the following...
The extension of the bush tax cuts for two years gave all Americans the ability to invest those additional dollars as they saw fit. Some will use it for food and shelter, some will pay down debt (something politicians don't know how to) others will invest in companies so that they can earn more than a simple bank savings account. It will be those business investments that will provide the capital for domestic or foreign job creation. The republicans have always wanted to look after business interests as the private sector is what creates jobs.
Ever stop to consider why obama is now courting business and asking them about job creation?
Another area for job creation deals with regulatory reform. Legislatures pass bills, the bills are turned into law by the beuracrats writing the laws as they interpret what the politicians wrote. Not all regulations do what was originally intended by the politician. Even obama has stated that not all regulations were good.
Private sector business is all about showing a profit, even the IRS requires that businesses must show a profit for so many years over time. A government that creates laws that will affect the bottom line of business in a confusing manner, that business will wait or go elswhere until such time that they can see what is going to happen.
The real bottom line is to let business do what it does best, create a product or service for any foreign or domestic consumer to buy at a competitive price within the confines of responsible and competitive regulations and tax structures based on a global economy.
american-2051576
Are you really a american or do you just shop at american stores. your post leads me to believe that your a russian.
rushing all over the place.
Just one thing out of one that we have in common, my dear JoAnna.
We have lost over 6 million jobs under 0bama. The economy is still in a free-fall and all 0bama does is blame Bush. That didn't work to well in 2010 and it won't work in 2012. The race card has been used up and 0bama has to run on his own record - which is nothing accomplished. His regime is being held in contempt by the court in New Orleans and he is defying a court order in FL. Instead of doing his job and enforcing our laws he has chosen to sue Arizona and decided to blow off the oath of office in not enforcing the defensive marriage act. Nov 6, 2012 can't get here quick enough.
x
J. Richter
America's best bet in these tough times is to stay with an intelligent PResident that has already turned around job losses, a negative GDP, failing banks
I'll drink to that. Don't forget GM affectionally called government motor turned a profit and paid back its loan.
So Bev, were you at all off put when Larry O'Donnel flat out called Obama out as a whore on Meet the Press? You know where he said Obama won't pick a side in the Wisconsin battle cause he does not know who will prevail and he does not want to be on the wrong side.
In other words - Obama has abandoned his principles [candidate Obama was fully in for the unions - comfy shoes and all], and now will not take a stand.
Hurts, right?
Government Motors, paying back their loan? Please cut and paste the results Bev, b ut i do believe thEY are not through paying the taxpayers back yet.
Spanky, I thought Obama, the Great Divider, came out in a comment that he supported the union activity over the state governnment right to balance the budget.
Bev, you have your head in a dark place. GM has not paid back its loans. They were given more billions by the government so they could try to have people believe they were paying SOME of their loans. the government illegally screwed the bond holders out of their money and GAVE a majority of the company to the UNIONS. When the government sold the shares they forced the company to give them they got back about 40% of what was owed. Just like many liberals you think you can lie and none will know. Try again.
Get real, get real -- more conspiracy theories from the right.
Jody, do something and actually research this prior to commenting! You will discover you are incorrect.
safecracker.....they don't care if they are correct......they only care about what thinkprogress, Odonnell, Maddow, & Olberman tell them to think.
Bev will be over in Fantasy Land of the DEW DROP INN. that perfect world of Booze and Conversation a place that doesnt really Exsist except in thier own Minds. They live in Lala Land and Raise their Imaginary Glasses to Imaginary Beliefs That will never come to Realiztion in the REAL world........
Drink up my Liberal Friends. in a couple of hours when the 5pm clocks roll around you can head on over to the DEW DROP INN and be Comforted by the Head Nasty DRunk herself Nasty Redhead...
true american, steve et al. - you all just realizing this?? Almost seems like we are taking advantage of them, just seems like some people can't think for themselves or realize that there is more than one point of view. The little darlings sure were content in their ways earlier last year, totally clueless one might say.
Not be "vilified"? You mean, Obama, like you've vilified corporations and private businesses? You mean like you, Obama, vilified small business owners? You mean like you, Obama, vilified oil companies? You mean like you, Obama, vilified doctors (you do recall, Obama, that you made the claim that doctors "pad their procedures", doing more procedures to make more money)? You mean like you, Obama, vilified insurance companies, Wall Street, the Chamber of Commerce, pharmaceutical companies, banks, and anyone one else that disagreed with your policies Mr. Obama?
Now the shoe is on the other foot, right Obama? Too bad for you, now you're major campaign cash cow of the state unions is drying up right in front of your beady little eyes.
You mean like you, JAS1, who vilify anyone who disagrees with you or your comments? Ring, Ring..."Hello pot?..."
I don't recall making you, or anyone else here, any kind of a villian. Looking through the posts, most of the personal attacks come from the Left. You do recall Obama making villians of anyone he disagrees with though, correct? Makes it kind of ironic that now Obama wants the states governors to be hands-off of his precious unions.
JSA1, Your definition of vilification and mine are obviously different. And don't believe for a hot second that you have not vilified or denigrated posters here on First Read. I have been reading it for months now, along with your regualr cronies who serve no purpose other than to denigrate the Left. If you do an objective analysis, the vilification and denigration is coming from the right. "ObamaCare" which i believe is right-ese for the Affordable Care Act? Am i correct? I've never seen such disdain for antoher human being than i do on these boards perputrated by you, nojo, spanky, et. al.
Exhibit 5.2 below JAS1? Need i continue?
Gee, I wonder who "Byran" really is? Any guesses? Can't be feisty, too many words. peitro? Not enough words. Someone in between . . . . .
Well, either way, welcome "Bryan".
I am just another "lefty" making sure the truth be told. Another exhibit JAS1, 15.2 "ObamaNomics" Classic. You really have no regard for the office of president do you? Actually i believe, whole-heartedly, that if the president were a republican you would not be so loose with your tounge.
No guesses necessary to know that JoAnnaSmith1 is really the 'selfish redhead'!
Isn't that right JoAnna?
Bryan, sorry but Joanna is attacked on a regular basis for voicing an unpopular opinion (at least in the small world of First Read). Wanna talk vilification? How about punishing the enemy? How about the right can come along but must ride in the back?
Wow, welcome to the trenches Bryan E: You have nailed JS1 exactly! Don't be a stranger now, you hear?
Who is punishing who here? Seems to me that most of the punishment these days is being enacted on the taxpayers for the "unpopular" choices made by our elected officials. Do you think the union employees in Madison should be punished for the legislatures inability to manage the states finances? For giving tax relief to corporations and special interests? I don't.
My wife is a "bottom feeder" by your words, working as a teacher. Her right to CBA go far past pension and benefits, to include wages, class sizes, books, materials, etc. She works in a school for ejudicated youth, and without a CBA, she would be teaching a class of 30 juvenile sex offenders and criminals instead of 8-10, giving her a greater opportunity to become a casualty herself. So the next time you think CBA's damage state budgets, imagine the lawsuits that would result from situations like the one i just described, and tell me which would be worse and/or cost more money.
newday - i'll do my best. The truth must be told.
Bryan E: Yes, the truth must be told, by those who can tell it directly, which seems to be your strength! So glad to have you here.
Bryan E,
Would you agree that presidents like things named after them? Airports, ships, roads, etc... and to my knowledge this happens after they leave office. President Obama can lay claim to having something monumental named after him after only 2 years in office -- Obamacare.
I bet anything BO loves it. Rasmussen should take a poll and see which term Americans like.
Krell,
My opinion and observation, the term "ObamaCare" is used only in a sladerous and denigrating fashion to vilify the sitting president of the united states. It's not like a monmuent or a library. It's a LAW. Passed through Congress and signed by the president. And i beleive people, regardless of party affiliation should recognize that and respect the office of the president.
Bryan,
You make a fair comment. I didn't have opportunity to re-watch the superbowl interview but (at least in my mind) didn't O'rielly use the term Obamacare - If so, I don't recall Pres Obama showing any signs of distaste (I know that doesn't mean anything).
If I were Obama knowing that over half the country is against the law and want out of it (I don't know the latest waiver count - maybe over 800), I would take the handful of things out of the law that are good, throw them in a 50 page bill and "make" Congress come up with a simple plan that works and Veto the current 2700 page monster.
If he did this, I bet his poll #s would skyrocket.
I believe AM regards being characterized as a Marxist is a compliment to her.
Sure, it's your hole, just keep digging.
Bryan E:
Welcome to the pit. A place to duck when mud comes your way and a place to throw a little mud. Write more so we can have some good conversation.
When 0bama leaves office in 2013 0bamacare will be the monumental mistake that made him a 1 term POTUS - well that and a bunch of other things. Rasmussen's latest poll out today shows his approval rating at 37% - down 10% in a week - after it inexplicably went up for a couple weeks. It would be nice if 0bama would do his job. A judge in FL has told them 0bamacare is unconstitutional and he continues implementing it. When states ask for help with the southern border - he ignores them (Rick Perry, Texas) or sues them - Arizona. He is contempt of court over the illegal ban on offshore drilling in the gulf and he is failing to uphold the oath of office by telling his AG to stop defending the defensive marriage bill. He has proved to be a Chicago Thug politician - or community organizer.
The very fact that you're quoting Foxmussen speaks for itself. They were the least reliable pollster in 2010, in a year when the party they favor had a field day! Gallup shows him almost exactly where he's been for the last year, and still significantly better numbers than Reagan or Clinton. http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Approval-Center.aspx
Fact: President Obama is the boss of a civil work force that numbers up to two million (excluding postal workers and uniformed military). Fact: Those federal workers cannot bargain for wages or benefits. Fact: Washington, D.C. is, in the purest sense, a "right to work zone." Federal employees are not compelled to join a union, nor to pay union dues. Fact: Neither Mr. Obama, nor the prior Democratic majority, ever acted to give their union chums a better federal deal.
Scott Walker, eat your heart out.
For this enormous flexibility in managing his work force, Mr. Obama can thank his own party. In 1978, Democratic President Jimmy Carter, backed by a Democratic Congress, passed the Civil Service Reform Act. Washington had already established its General Schedule (GS) classification and pay system for workers. The 1978 bill went further, focused as it was on worker accountability and performance. It severely proscribed the issues over which employees could bargain, as well as prohibited compulsory union support.
Democrats weren't then (and aren't now) about to let their federal employees dictate pay. The GS system, as well as the president and Congress, sees to that. Nor were they about to let workers touch health-care or retirement plans. Unions are instead limited to bargaining over personnel employment practices such as whether employees are allowed to wear beards, or whether the government must pay to clean uniforms. These demands matter, though they are hardly the sort to break the federal bank.
From Fri. wsj. So much for any "right" to collective barganing.
JoAnna:
Good job listing all the villains, JoAnna. Couldn't have said that better myself.
AM: Your Marxist tendencies continue to be on display for all to see. Tell us, where do you shop? Obviously you're against capitalism and all the trappings of it, so you could never go to a grocery store, a Walmart, or a Home Depot. You must not ever go to a doctor, because they are just in it to make a buck. No one can work on your hut, because that would require you to have small business owners in to bid on the work, and that's called capitalism/competition, and you're apparently against that too.
And what large corporation provides your internet connection? They're just in it for the profit too. Perhaps you built it yourself?
JoAnna:
Sigh. So many strawmen, so little time. See, I told you we had that in common.
I'm not against capitalism. I'm just against unbridled greed. I think Jesus was against it, too, for the most part. He threw the moneychangers OUT of the temple, rather than inviting them in, as Scott Walker has done.
I'm not sure Jesus would have been a capitalist, come to think of it.
Anyway, I'm really not inclined to reveal where I shop, but Walmart is not among my places. I walk that particular talk. I shop locally when it's feasible. My medical system is a world class public university medical system, where, by the way, I am told by a former neighbor who is a physician there, they are quite concerned about the effects of Walker's proposals on nurses and other unionized health care workers, and ultimately on the quality of care. Elections do have consequences, JoAnna, just not the ones you may think. I don't have to worry about anyone working on my hut, my work internet and phone are provided by a small local company, and my home internet is Charter. I hate Charter; talk about a badly run corporation -- private sector, I believe. Being private sector is no guarantee of anything, as GM had pretty much proven until that socialist President Obama stepped in to save those lousy corporate managers from themselves.
I'm not completely against Marxism, JoAnna, when it's done as it was intended to be. But Animal Farm doesn't really work, does it? And neither does what we've been doing the past 30 years or so, whatever you might call it. Come to think of it, those two things are pretty close.
Some change couldn't hurt.
Excellent speech by President Obama. I think he did a great job of calling attention to the fact that too many governors (and legislators) have villified and denigrated certain segments of the population. He mentioned that sacrifice should be shared and one sector of the population should not carry all the burden. He talked about the importance of infrastructure and how both sides used to agree on it; gave excellent examples of how great infrastructure can improve the economics for everyone.
Poor Mitt Romney, he won't catch a HCR break for his 2012 presidential hopes. President Obama mentioned Mitt's Massachusetts health plan and how the federal plan is written to (by 2017 or sooner) allow states to develop their own plans that work best for their people as long as certain critieria are met.
It seems to me that the huge miscalculation of republican governors and legislators in attacking public sector employees as evil monsters who caused the global economic collapse is to discount that those public sector employees also vote (and they pay taxes, too). It is a tragedy that the GOP continues to pit one segment of the population against the other but it is something they have done well for 30 years (Us versus Them and the "them" are evil folks out to take "us's" money and rights away).
PSSSSSt Jody.
You think villifying or denigrating a "certain segment" of the population is wrong? What are you thoughts on Obama's "clinging to their guns and religion" comments?
Might have been perceived by "certain" folk to have been a tad denigrating?
But other than that, your point that it is only those EEVVIILL republican that pit one segment against the other, is spot on. Wait, unless you think that maybe the unions are doing a little of that themselves.
"You're either with us or against us." ~ Guess who said that, Spanky.
Scott Walker claims to be a servant of ALL Wisconsin residents in his State of the State address, and then says during his phony telephone call with David Koch that State Senator Scott Cullen is "not one of us."
One of whom, Spanky?
Well put AM - but given his current whereabouts, just who is Cullen with? Certainly not the taxpayers or voters - the ones that elected him to represent and participate in the process. He doesn't seem to be participating. The issue needs to be voted on. The Dems will lose. If you all are right and it is wildly unpopular then the next elections will be a landslide, right Anna M.?
Are you ok with this strategy? How does it play out down the road? Can the government function if this is the go to tactic for the party about to lose a vote? Of course not.
I figured you would make that argument about Cullen, Spanky, and we'll just have to agree to disagree there, but the last I heard, David Koch isn't from Wisconsin, either.
So, let me ask again, who is the "us" in Walker's statement?
If you mean let the people vote, Spanky, then I'm with you. In that case, Walker will lose. If you mean let the legislature vote, I'd say fine, if that's what Walker had really run on, so that the legislature could be considered representative of the people's position on this issue. But it's not. Given that public opinion is now running solidly against the bill, the legislature would not be doing the people's will if it votes for the bill.
The reason that Wisconsin government will have trouble functioning down the road is Scott Walker, Spanky. He has proven, even to his corporate paymasters, that he can't be trusted. He proved in Milwaukee County that he is a poor fiscal manager. He proved it again when he proposed new and massive special interest tax breaks in the face of an alleged fiscal crisis. He has proven that he is NOT the governor of ALL the people in Wisconsin, as he claimed to be. He is, purely and simply, the bought-and-paid-for tool of special interests.
We're not all in this together, Spanky, thanks to Scott Walker deliberately driving the wedge between us. To answer my own question, for Scott Walker, corporate special interests R "us."
Well, Spanky, certain groups do "cling to their guns and religion" but you took the entire quote out of context which is not unusual. Obama's comment did not villify any segment of the population--nothing in it implies something wrong with clinging to guns and religion.
Please explain to everyone why you think the "cling to their guns and religion" villifies people. On the other hand, the right has referred to public workers as "bottom feeders" and "free loaders"; perhaps you can enlighten everyone with what those words mean.
Jody, please try to apply kust a little critical thinking here. In fact it might help if you re-read your own post.
Of course I enjoy the discussion here as much as anyone, but it is readily apparent from your comment above that you either don't get this issue, or are do an excellent job at laying" dumb.
Do tell, which is it?
And Anna M - of course we are not in this together. The taxpayers have a side that is adverse to the unions and the government side. You know it, and now that the taxpayer is starting to get it [yay, tea party] things are going to be very bleak for those sucking at the tit. It's just a fact, and known even to the union bosses. Except their "concessions" just are not enough. Collective bargining in the public sector would be fine if the unions were prohibited from donating to campaign funds. Otherwise is just corrupt.
I'm one of those "taxpayers," Spanky, being employed in the PRIVATE sector, and I'm not in this with you. Many "taxpayers" are not in this with you. Read the polls, Spanky. I recommend that the Tea Party get a back-up nourishment plan because feeding off public unions doesn't seem to be working for your side.
Why should unions be prohibited from donating to political campaigns when corporations get unlimited donations? How is that any less corrupt? By the way, I've always been for public campaign funding, for the very reasons we're seeing played out now. Ban it on both sides. I dare you to agree to that.
But you won't. And we both know why.
Put on those "comfortable shoes," Mr. President, and come out to the "front lines." They weren't in your offices today.
Anna, I would love to see the President put on his comfortable shoes and walk the picket line with the rest of the unionists. That would really benefit his re-election chances, wouldn't it.
Come on now, we know there is no way he'll ever do that. He is a calculating whore, like all politicians. He will not chose a side until a victor has been determined.
How disappointed are you in him over this? Seems a tad inconsistent, right?
Spanky, I'd love to see his further prostitute himself doing this. End his chances in 2012. Oh, never mind, I do believe his policies will not serve him well in the election.
You will see another Democratic candidate soon.
Why is the media giving such crappy coverage to the union protests in Wisconsin and all over the country?
I mean if two tea partiers get together, or Sara Palin burps, we hear about it ad nauseum, but on the Wisconsin story we've got the governor on tape admitting that he is a bought off fraud and barely a peep from the media.
More evidence that the "corporate media" works for the "corporate people" and not us.
Heck, we heard more about Senator Obama's pastor or some jack$#@ pretending to be a pimp than we are hearing about the "corporate people" trying to BREAK our COLLECTIVE BACKS by destroying collective bargaining, freeing them up to screw us over one by one.
What a crock.
So much for that liberal, media bias the conservatives complain about.
Talk about unadulterated Bull@!$%#. "Liberal media".
Uh huh. Tune up and down your radio dial this afternoon, and see how many 'liberal' programs are droning on and on. Fox? Hell, they are pretty right-wing oriented, and look how many people post on here, bragging about how much higher their viewership ratings are than the other outlets (MSNBC included).
Liberl Media? Somebody been lying, and getting away with it for far too long.
What is "Liberal Media" anyway? I am hard pressed to find any that you do not pay for like Sirius Left channel 146.
Have you guys visited the Scott Walker thread?
Liberal media = everyone but Fox or Faux - its a pretty easy explanation.
Well, now that thw denigrated and vilifier in chief has spoken his hypocrisy we should just speak well about the bussed in out-of staters who beat up reporters and disobey the law. I haven't heard any smack talk by the Governor or the republicans in Wisconsin. I have heard all kinds of Hitler talk and worse from the other side. Maybe our President is really talking about his union buddies and asking them to tone it down. Maybe he's just looking for the right time to put on his comfy shoes and walk the picket line. I wish he spent as much time trying to fix the country as he does inviting union bosses to the White House.
Give me one single instance of where a protestor in Madison broke the law or was arrested. Just one. I'll be here til 5PM EST waiting for that example.
If you haven't heard the Hitler talk it's because you live in Philly or New York and Beck was taken off the air. And maybe you missed the phone conversation the Gov. Walker had with "David Koch".
I wish the republi"can'ts" spent more time creating jobs than tackling social issues that noone cares about.
Someone needs to alert the Capital Chief of Police as well, he seems to think the protesters are behaving well'
"People here have acted lawfully and responsibly," Tubbs said. "There's no reason to consider arrests." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41811389/ns/us_news-life/
MR. Obama. Public Employees should not engage in illegal strikes and conspiricy, or perpertrate FRAUD on their employer!
And when they do, they should be fired.
What illegal strike? There is NO strike. Protesting is not the same as striking or don't they teach the difference any more.
The only "fraud" in Wisconsin has been perpetrated by Scott Walker. Drop by the Scott Walker/MTP thread and read the lies. HE's the proven conspirator. HE should be fired.
So there. And clean up your spelling. Should have paid more attention in school.
NewMalthus,
There was a strike? Where? Why didn't i hear about this on Faux News?
I hope the pinkslips go out TODAY!
True American: ok, that's one vote for 'villification and denigration'. (I take it the moniker is satirical)
Obama is god.
So he believes from his actions. After all, he won the election, the GOP lost. Obama even said that and it is true.
Doggone, I knew there was something about him I liked.
But what does that make you?
A loser, Anna. A bona-fide LOSER.
"I don't think it does anybody any good when public employees are denigrated or vilified or their rights are infringed upon."
It doesnt do the President's campaign contributions any good, unless the President does the public employee unions' bidding at the expense of the general public.
And the Koch controlled House of Representatives is different how???????
No matter how you slice it, or dress it up, what you are asking of the public sector workers is to take a pay cut. So before you go there, you have to confirm that they will still be paid a fair wage. It's real easy to say that someone is over paid compared to you, or that the system is unfair to you so it should also be for someone else. It's real easy to cut someone's pay to save you some money if you don't care what happens to them. It is however, really, really hard to think about whether the economy is producing the kind of wages and benefits that all in the middle class should enjoy. It misplaced to think that lowering someone else's wages improves your situation.
The underlying economic problems states face today reared their head at the end of the W. Bush administration and those failed policies. Specifically tax cuts for wealthy persons and paying for war on credit doomed the economy.
Union members earn their salary and benefits--and they pay an ever greater amount of the cost of their health and pension benefits as determined through collective bargaining agreements. That means we tax payers and those union workers agree on an overall package that's fair and provides a good middle class livelihood. Not to do this would harm our society far more.
I would ask the anti-union posters: where's your resentment over bonuses handed out by banks/companies bailed out by taxpayers? Or even bonus/benefit packages that skim cash off the top of mutual funds through which the middle class is supposed to plan to supplement their retirement? If we don't expand the middle class, including by taking care of public sector union workers, then we risk losing our democracy outright.
The moonbats who are defending the indefensible public sector unions and vilifying Scott Walker as evil personified, should keep in mind this:
There are numerous "Governor Scott Walkers" in the MidWest --fiscally sane Republican Governors like Kasich, Daniels, and now Michigan Governor Ric Snyder.
(Not to mention Bob McDonnell and Chris Christie back East)
Michigan Governor Snyder's excellent new budget calls for 180 million in concessions from the corrupt public sector unions, to help Michigan out of its fiscal crisis.
Red State:
"Snyder isn’t being confrontational about this (at least, not on the federal level); then again, he doesn’t need to, thanks to the Republican majority in the state legislature. For those wondering, a simple majority constitutes a quorum in both houses of the Michigan legislature, which is almost certainly contributing to the relatively muted response by Michigan Democrats. "
No fleebagging allowed! SWEET!
Did you say fiscally "SANE"? As in give enourmous tax cuts to corporations and expect the taxpayers to carry the burden "SANE"?
We have a fundametally different definition of the word SANE it appears.
Throw in a couple of"coasters" in the mix, Brown of California and Cuomo in New York, Democrats no less. All of these governors realize they have to balance their budgets, and they are maxed out on taxes. With ObamaNomics stifling the economy from providing any real growth, the only way to balance the state budgets is by cutting them.
Jeff,
Good job.....the way you stuck it to these zombies, numskulls, these chumps who get their information like, rep Bachmann, from Glenn Beck. They are so stupid sometimes I wonder if they were born or made...I guess the later.
Hey, Bob: If you're so smart, riddle me this.
What caused the collective $175 billion dollars in state deficits reported by the National Governor's Conference? Wisconsin is only responsible for about $3 billion of that total.
What caused the HUGE structural deficits in Texas -- more than $20 billion -- when Texas is run by fiscal conservatives and doesn't have public worker unions?
Could it be .... recession and unemployment? Driven by Wall Street greed? (Or did we forget?)
Could it be .... uncontrolled private sector health care costs that are squeezing the life out of the Medicaid program? Because that's what the governors are telling President Obama.
Could it be .... handing out more and more special interest tax breaks? Like Scott Walker did.
Bob, you're starting to make me tired.
"Bob, you're starting to make me tired"
Don't worry ; the 'Obama-shill' union rules require a moonbat to take a 15 minute break every hour, after said moonbat either a) mentions the term "rich" or b) "George Bush did it"
Enjoy your break. If you break a nail typing, you are entitled to full disability and a lifetime pension!
Bob, do you enjoy 8 hour work days and weekends?
Bob.....you're wasting your time, this one thinks she's a lawyer; she can't take a break because she's on billable hours to MSNBC.....lol
Holy Cow ... just show me where to go to sign up for the cake, Bobby.
@True ~ not logical. How can I think I'm a lawyer when I can't think?
But you can give me a break, anytime.
Just to add: the United States is not broke, nor is the collective wealth of the states, but I won't deny that some tax payers and some state governments are. Remember the words of Deep Throat - "follow the money." The GOP is playing 3 card monte to divert your attention.
Found in the "Moonbat Dictionary":
"Special interest tax breaks" --anyone, anywhere, anytime, allowed to keep their own money....
Actually should read - Tax incentives given to corporations that are paid for by hard working americans. Also known as budget busting tax cuts that blow gaping holes in state budgets. You know those budgets that are out of whack because of union pensions and benefits that the union workers pay into.
Didn't want you to puposely mislead the viewing public.
Didn't want you to puposely mislead the viewing public...........BRYAN
did you mean the deeply entrenched 6 or 8 of you that come here everyday to regurgitate the far-left crazy line OR those of us who come here each day to get comic relief from them?
True American - if you can actually call yourself one - This is my FIRST day posting here. I hope to dispell many many more right wing myths in the coming days. The more you post, the more fuel i have to carry out my mission. And i don't get paid unless you consider satisfaction some form of revenue.
And how is my "far-left crazy line" any different than the swill you reguritate from Faux News? Or Hannity or Limbaugh or Beck? I'll tell you the difference. IT IS TRUTH.
And I hope it won't be your last! Welcome aboard Bryan - I like your style! ;o)
Tip about True American - it won't take very long for you to realize they're a tea-cup short of a full place setting!
Bryan, why don't you go back up the page a little bit and see how your counterpart, Bev, thinks that republicans are no better than radical muslims that want to bring Sharia Law to the United States; then come back down here and tell me about which side needs to have their myths dispelled.........I'll take your post 20.1 to mean that you believe thinkprogress, moveon.org, and the huffington post are legit news sources too.
Really Feisty.......so, are you headed to Washington with Bev? She's ALL FOR Sharia law.
I realize you can't teach an old dog new tricks, but this is getting ridiculous.
Welcome, Bryan----JoAnne and I are glad to see someone else from the Keystone State here! Dare I hope you are a Steelers fan?
True American, I'm not talking about anyone else but you right now. And of course, i'll defend anyone as long as they speak they truth. And by truth i mean actual factual truth supported by real objective analysis. Not that garbage you get brainwashed with over at Faux News. That's not objective, let alone factual.
Steeler Fan,
Sorry to disappoint, but i support the Iggles. Glad to be on baord here though. There are some serious mistruths be perputrated upon the readers of FR.
Fiesty,
Thanks for the welcome. Been reading here for a while, so i have a pretty firm grasp of the ladscape. And right now i feel compelled to stick up for progressive ideals. Ideals that support a strong economy and middle class. I actually believe in innovation and creativity, i guess that's why i'm a "lefty".
Welcome Bryan, please feel free to jump in wherever you feel the urge to do so.
Why all of a sudden are the unions the bad guys? Is it because of high unemployment? They have jobs and many others don't? Most likely. Is there a hatching of Republican dittoheads on FR today or what? How about some ideas from you guys on the right that actually deals with real problems like unemployment and health care? Oh I see, cut taxes, cut programs for the poor, de-regulate, and above all f@%k over the middle-class.
There is a huge difference between public and private employee unions. The biggest being the fact that voters elect State Representatives to represent them. These Representatives are the ones that should be responsible in setting the State Budgets which includes the salaries and benefits of State Employees. When public employees first wanted to join a Union to represent them, even the Unions wondered if it was good idea because Unions saw their objective to be making sure employee of Corporations and business received a fair wage and fair benefits for their contribution in making their employee money. Thus, assuring that their employers didn't get the whole pie. Since Public employees generally don't generate profits for the Tax payers that pay their salaries and the cost is beared by the State or City, their benefits and salaries are based on the Revenue and Budget of the State or City. Once the Unions saw the sizeable amount of revenue through dues of every public employee, they changed their tune and Wisconsin became the first State to allow public employees to Unionize. Huge mistake and unfair to the taxpaying Citizens of that State.
There are many private sector professions and employees that are not allowed to Unionize by law. Even many Federal employees such as health care providers that work for the Government are not allowed to belong to Federal Unions and hence are excluded from representation. But Federal Unions don't have the right to Collective Bargaining as many State and City workers. Why? And Why shouldn't Health Care providers both Public and Private be allowed to have a Union represent them so they are treated and reimbursed fairly by 3rd party payors?
Just ask yourselves these questions. Wouldn't it be better to allow those you elect to decide how your tax dollars can be spent most effectively and whether an employee is doing the job they were hired to do and be allowed to fire those that aren't and reward those that are?
By requiring State employees to pay union dues and then allowing those Unions to use that money as donations to Candidates running against those that the voters elected is just not right. And, using the Union members money to back Candidates they don't support, also is unfair and shouldn't be allowed.
When a workers check comes from the State or City, it is backed by tax revenue. As such, it is up to the taxpayer through their elected officials to decide what they can afford to pay in compensation and benefits, not an unelected Union.
Obama should really keep his cotton picking mouth shut. Telling Governors not to denigrate or vilify unions is the height of hypocracy and it is coming from the supposed leader of the nation. Obama has spent most of his year plus time in the White House denigrating and viliying businesses in this country. He has denigrated and vilified wall street; he has denigrated and vilified small businesses and he has not created one meaningful plan for putting people back to work except spending our tax money to put union members to work on government jobs at a cost of about $250K per job. The bozzo doesn't know anything about the business world he only knows social engineering and socialist ideology.
He has been personally involved by getting his Organize America group supporting union activism in Wisconsin; he has gotten his labor dept leader to come out in favor of unions; he as done everything except march with the socialist activists in support of unions. Yet, unons are breaking state budgets as well as the federal budget and he has no plan; no action; no vision other than implementing his agend of the "new order" for a socialist state. There is bias and lack of leadership on the part of this unqualified president when it comes to unions vs states.
Are you serious? You do realize the racist connotation of that remark, don't you? And hosestly the rest is a wall of words after that point. You have no valid argument when you use the above to open you remark. Telling a black man to keep his "cotton picking" mouth shut. Are you insane?
0bama doesn't know how to keep his mouth shut and stop playing the race card. Its been used over and over and no one buys it anymore. We elected a black man by 8% 2 plus long years ago. You have to come up with some other reason that we big bad conservatives are picking on poor 0bama.
And, I detest being denigrated and vilified at the expense of unions and public sector workers.
There are no public worker unions in Texas and you've got the biggest deficit of all.
Stay out of our business.
Obama has spent most of his year plus time in the White House denigrating and viliying businesses in this country. He has denigrated and vilified wall street; he has denigrated and vilified small businesses and he has not created one meaningful plan for putting people back to work except spending our tax money to put union members to work on government jobs at a cost of about $250K per job. The bozzo doesn't know anything about the business world he only knows social engineering and socialist ideology.
Oh, the Gop have a plan, and I am still waiting to see it. Not defending your statement above, I just want to hear a good plan. Tax breaks for the past 10 years, plus an extension hasn't been puting people back to work, (like they claimed). So what the hell is taking so long? Bail out Wall Street, AIG, the Banks = No Jobs. Free Market, Free Trade = No Jobs. What bright idea can they come up with next dare I ask? (No Unions = No Middle Class) WOW now we got job creation, ooops these are only for the working POOR. I live in the Show Me State,and I hope they don't Show ME. I have heard enough BS to last a lifetime, when are we going to demand results or vote all them suckers out. I don't want to wait till there is another ICE AGE.
Won't be long, Tony. Once global warming evens out the ocean temperatures, the Gulf Stream will slow (it's temperature exchange that causes the current) -- which I believe may already have begun -- causing the North Atlantic to return to colder temperatures, in turn triggering an Ice Age.
And the beauty is that, while Rome fiddles, no one does anything about THAT.
The next 30 years we are going to see a pattern of cooler weather ran than warmer. Sorry algore.
Sorry black_belt, you're sorely lacking in supporting evidence there. Perhaps you don't understand the difference between local and worldwide climate.
http://www.grist.org/article/some-sites-show-cooling/