Yes. If I were you, I'd take that savings and buy an airline ticket to somewhere nice. I'd do it right away, too, if I were you.

So the big drain, the big expense to tax payers ....... is paying unionized government public employees to not work.

Can't even turn the lights off without having to pay the unions?

Thanks for the article FR.

Sort of like those 14 democrat State Senators in Wisconsin

The Fleabaggers still in Illinois? We'll probably see another one of these losers pop up for a tv interview from an "undisclosed location", trying to negotiate their terms, just like if they had a hostage. Too funny!

Illinois can use the business, because unlike Wisconsin, Illinois just borrows the money to pay off the state employee unions, so any extra business from the Fleabaggers will help reduce that debt for them.

Yeah Bob, Feisty is a few fries short of a Happy Meal, bless her heart.

Has Speaker Boehner mentioned anything yet about takeing Congress's Pay back to 2008 levels in this new 2 Billion a week savings?

Now we findout the Guvment shutdown will take most of those savings.

The Republican Train of Thought, ran Off the Tracks a long, long time ago!

Bob-1805084- First of all read the article in its entirety before you open your mouth. More than 50% of the cost of the previous shut down was lost revenue not employee salaries. And nowhere does the article specifically say that the remainder was salaries. Because it wasn't! Factored into the loss are the everyday cost of doing business- leases on buildings, utility costs and others.

Don't blame unions or federal workers for this. Learn some facts. A federal worker who does their job during a government shutdown can be convicted of a crime and sentenced to 2 years in prison and a $5000 fine although some exceptions can be made when the job is determined to be critical to the survival of the country. In the latter case employees can be forced to work without pay or risk losing their job. What this and other articles have failed to mention is that some of the back pay the last time went to just that type of employee.

That is not a provision created by the unions. Rather it is a LAW passed by CONGRESS. This is not a strike. Federal pay scale is not included in these negotiations. Federal unions likewise have no say in any shutdown or any budget negotiations. We are the victims here forced to sit on the sidelines as the elected idiots fight a turf war. We are also the people that will be forced to scramble after a lockout to get caught up on what are often legally mandated guidelines. Work that will be done for base salarary regardless of the extra hours that we are required to pull to meet those deadlines.

Feisty I love your song, keep up the good work.

Obama: Here's the budget I'd like to see.

House Republicans: No, we'll pass this budget.

Senate Democrats: That budget is completely unacceptable. Let's pass a 30-day Continuing Resolution at current funding levels while we work out our differences, to avoid a shutdown.

House Republicans: No, here's an exact 2-week version of our new budget. Pass our version instead.

...

Look, it's a given that the Republicans and Democrats disagree on the budget (and everything else).

But when the Democrats suggest a 30-day continuing resolution at current funding levels in order to prevent a government shutdown and buy more time to iron out their differences to put together a reasonable budget everyone can agree to, and the Republicans come right back and say "No, we will only pass our new budget, the 2-week version or the 1-year version--take your pick", it's pretty clear which party is responsible for the government shutdown if they're not willing to work together.

The American people elected a Democrat President, a Democrat majority to the Senate, and a Republican majority to the House. They expect everybody to give a little to get things done. "My way or the highway" might buy you some hardcore Tea Party cred, but it's not going to solve our nation's problems.

Anna, Anna, Anna. Your post reads as though the utilities and leases don't get paid while the buildings are in use. Yes, we still pay those, but no, it isn't over and above the cost of the govt being open.

I didn't see in the article where lost revenue was compared against back pay in the same shut down period....in short, not comparing apples and apples, but what I DID notice was the difference in wording regarding back pay (they say B billions) versus lost revenue (used M millions)....those are just a wee bit different.

My point here, it doesn't cost MORE to close it than it does to leave it open. We will just pay whats already planned to BE paid (well, ok, less overtime costs which you don't have to pay in the case of back pay as there ISN'T any), and this silly comment of lost revenue...it will still get collected, just a few days and more interest later.

Any more smoke you need to blow?

Anna,

I stated the biggest expense was union wages. The article referenced $1 billion in back pay to unions. The article referenced an opportunity cost of $63 million from lost EPA fines. The article referenced uncollected airline taxes and lost fees to see Yogi at Jellystone National Park, etc.

What part do you do not understand?

I didn't blame the unions for this. I didn't say anything about who passed a law. Blah blah blah

JoAnnaSmith1

Illinois can use the business, because unlike Wisconsin, Illinois just borrows the money to pay off the state employee unions, so any extra business from the Fleabaggers will help reduce that debt for them.

Oha Joanna, No one takes your serious, you will not tell us where your from, you refused to blog in fairness, you must live in a trailer, do the tires on you home need changing.

how do you know your a red neck, when your house has a flat.

Hey, Feisty, more left wing insults, but in a love song this time; kinda cute. Do you EVER offer a comment with any substance?

If the shut down happens and costs the government money, never fear; Obama will just print some more to cover it. Well, it sure wouldn't be the first time!

how do you know your a red neck, when your house has a flat.

Jeff,

"You might be a redneck" ........ if you don't know the difference you're and your.

Carl W

Obama: Here's the budget I'd like to see.

The American people elected a Democrat President, a Democrat majority to the Senate, and a Republican majority to the House. They expect everybody to give a little to get things done. "My way or the highway" might buy you some hardcore Tea Party cred, but it's not going to solve our nation's problems.

How would you like to see this? Republicans pursue a plan they know would slow the economy and hurt the country on purpose to undermine President Obama’s re-election chances

How needs Tea bagger credibility?

Contrary to what some people have stated, there is no law that says the government employees get paid even if there is a shutdown. That has been done on a case by case basis with each previous shutdown. I do not think they should get paid. Then maybe our idiot senators and congressmen would have some incentive to get a budget passed on time. Imagine the backlash if all those employees did not get paid!!! As a minimum, congress should not get paid, since they are obviously not getting their job done.

The bigger problem is that the government contractors that work on-site with the government as direct support do not get paid and they do not get back pay when the issue is resolved. Since the companies can not bill the government for the employees time, the companies do not pay the employees. If they did it would have to come out of overhead/profits, since the time is not billable and most big companies will not do that and many smaller companies can not afford to do that. The employees are forced to either use their vacation time or take leave without pay. There government counterparts get an extra paid vacation and the contractors worry about how they are going to pay the bills. I have a number of friends who got caught in these shutdowns and lost a considerable amount of income, in one case three weeks pay. This was because he did not have the vacation time to cover the time since he was new to the company and the company did not cover their lost hours.

grats on reading the article....

palin stupid award of the day.

safecracker,

I would agree, except that when you actually think about it ....... Feisty is more just like a couple of fries in the bottom of the bag - short of the chicken nuggets, short of the juice box and short of the rest of the fries .....

nothing there.

Spider,

Haven't seen one yet.

Drive-by and Fisty,

So, I guess that your suggestion is that they don't do anything. Just continue spending like Drunk sailors in a whorehouse. That is all that has been done by the "progressives" since HRH Nancy I took over in 2006. Just keep spending, we can eventually spend ourselves out of debt is we spend enough.

Carl,

Maybe you haven't figured it out yet, but unless you force those that have been doing the double fisted spending forever to stop it, they will continue to spend as they always have. If you give Duke Harry of Nevada a 30 day extension, he will get to day 28 and ask for another 30 day extension at current funding levels until he eventually won't need an extension at all because we will be in Next Year's budget. Sorry, guys, I've seen that one before; Pull my other leg, it plays Jingle Bells.

I voted completely Anti-Incumbent during the last election. I can see no that I will be doing it again. I've been taking notes this time. Anyone that continues to vote for congressional business as usual will not get my vote.

Even Newsweek's Evan Thomas, who once gushed that Obama stood "above the world" as some "sort of God," called the president's new budget a "profile in cowardice."

...................anybody?

post reads as though the utilities and leases don't get paid while the buildings are in use. Yes, we still pay those, but no, it isn't over and above the cost of the govt being open

That's an expense regardless if the workers are there, or not. It doesn't cost extra.

In reality, the government is not shut down. You don't think you have to pay your taxes? Think again. The TSA'swill be at the airport. The FBI will be looking for bad the guys/gals. And a few "non-essential" bureaucrats will get a paid vacation.

The "shut-down" is pretty much all hype.

Bob:

The article referenced $1 billion in back pay to unions.

Where the heck did it say that? What it said is that the union loaned money to employees who were not getting paid, so they could meet their financial obligations.

bob-1805084

how do you know your a red neck, when your house has a flat.

Jeff,

"You might be a redneck" ........ if you don't know the difference you're and your.

Well that means i'm the blackest red neck ever,

Good catch!!!!!

True American-2366567

Even Newsweek's Evan Thomas, who once gushed that Obama stood "above the world" as some "sort of God," called the president's new budget a "profile in cowardice."

...................anybody

On June 5, 2009, while being interviewed by Chris Matthews on Hardball with Chris Matthews, Thomas provoked controversy by stating that Barack Obama was "sort of God." In response to criticism of this comment, Thomas responded with the following:
Thomas elaborated on Obama as God, patronizingly explaining: "He's going to bring all different sides together...Obama is trying to sort of tamper everything down. He doesn't even use the word terror. He uses extremism. He's all about let us reason together...He's the teacher. He is going to say, 'now, children, stop fighting and quarreling with each other.' And he has a kind of a moral authority that he – he can – he can do that." In response, Matthews wondered....

"IF THERE'S A WORLD ELECTION BETWEEN HIM AND OSAMA BIN LADEN, HE'S RUNNING A GOOD CAMPAIGN." THOMAS AGREED: "YES, HE IS."

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kyle-drennen/2009/06/05/newsweek-s-evan-thomas-obama-sort-god#ixzz1EuR5OtRu

do the tires on you home need changing.

Not sure Jeff - but, JoAnna & Bob's septic tank sure is overflowing!

@ Steven - Thanks for the compliment! ;o)

"IF THERE'S A WORLD ELECTION BETWEEN HIM AND OSAMA BIN LADEN, HE'S RUNNING A GOOD CAMPAIGN." THOMAS AGREED: "YES, HE IS."

Wow, Bev......is that your benchmark for a good president?.....he can beat Osama Bin Laden?

Still, .....changes nothing about Thomas's remark that Obama's budget is a "PROFILE IN COWARDICE" does it?

TA: Even Newsweek's Evan Thomas, who once gushed that Obama stood "above the world" as some "sort of God," called the president's new budget a "profile in cowardice."

Even the MSM is catching on to this farce in the White House. Recall all the groupies used to just gush over Obama's speeches. Now it's painful to listen to the man give an interview, every time he does, it just continues to show he's out of his depth. It looks like this last budget of Obama's has been the last straw for the lefties in the media. Putting out a budget with a $1.6 trillion dollar deficit was enough for the many in the MSM to finally give up on this guy. There is really nothing left for them to defend.

It would be best if the Congress got their pay docked for the time the government was shut down, instead of the working joe at the crappy end of the deal.

True: Still, .....changes nothing about Thomas's remark that Obama's budget is a "PROFILE IN COWARDICE" does it?

Perhaps not, but given the expanded context in Bev's statement, we have to wonder what the further context of your quote is as well.

The Republican Train of Thought, ran Off the Tracks a long, long time ago!

in the meantime the unmanned freight train of spending the democrats sent on a ghost ride is still loose on the tracks and out of control.

but when the dems start cramming crap spending down out throats its ok? thats what i dont get with some of you, its ok for 1 party to do something but not the other. spending cuts are needed, dems dont want to see the spending that got them the few votes they get taken away even if it is something that can be done without. whats more important? you want someething done, it's getting done, and so far to date since the nov election we have seen a new party arise "fleebaggers", and dems who threaten to hold the nation along with unions hostage. there ya go, REEAALL democracy in action for ya! dont worry, in part you can thank your local democrap, and fleebagger's who blow the union boss in the back alley. might be the best place to look for them IF there is a shutdown, i hear in illinois they are running out of alley's in safe neighborhoods so they got hotel rooms.... who's paying for that?

best part is we all know spending in this contry is way way out of control, but for the sake of saving your own pathetic face you fight tooth and nail for the same people who help to keep us in this mess.... go figure.

That's an expense regardless if the workers are there, or not. It doesn't cost extra.

Sure its still and expense. If the workers are not there they produce nothing, or in other words we are lose the products and services that we would have gained! A shut-down does cost us, because we continue to spend while we get back less.

And where in the article did it say that over half of the government pay will go to the unions. Its true that over half goes to public sector workers, but union dues are a minuscule portion of an employees pay.

"How needs Tea bagger credibility?"... huh?

Actually putting out a plan that will cost us more now, but get us out of debt in the long run without destroying what we have rebuild from the bush years was pretty brave. Especially with all the millionaire crybabies whining about union workers, the tea party unamericans who want to tear everything down, the no compromise gop and the duped fox watcher.

I remember the last shut down, it was not fun for government workers like some rightwing blow hards think. Of course, why should they care? as long as it doesn't affect them.

Beverly (post 1.16) - You are funny, Republicans originally wanted $100 billion in cuts, but will settle for $61 billion. I think it was obama and the democrats in 2009 - 2010 that said "its our way or the highway", but then again you do so enjoy your brand of revisionist history, don't you sweety.

The 2009 stimulas plan bumped up GDP 4th qtr 2009 which then promptly fell in 2010. Pray tell us all how a cut of less than 8% of 2009's stimulas plan will slow our economy and hurt the country?

Anna lee - seems that the senate and obama needs to wake up, especially since obama admitted that tough choices need to be made and that the republican cuts are only about 4% of the 2011 FY budget. Seems that the politicians mistake in 95 and 96 was paying back wages when the workers were eligible for unemployment.

Jeff - So you are a black redneck, does that make you special?

Fiesty's post was collasped?

SHOCKER

The article stated this :

"The Environmental Protection Agency, for example, failed to collect $63 million in fines because of cancelled facility inspections during the November shutdown in 1995."

What does that even mean ??....The EPA did not inspect facilities but they knew beforehand what the fines would be, if they had done the inspections ???

Does that mean the EPA has a quota ??....whatever facilities getting inspected in November get to pay that amount in fines ???

The whole article is made up of horsefeather numbers....coulda, should, woulda.....

What difference does it make? When the lights are on in Washington, no one is home, anyway!!!!

few fries short of a Happy Meal, bless her heart.

Safecracker - I hadn't heard that one yet. That was a good laugh. Thanks for making my day. I'll have to be sure to use that on someone.

There should be no back pay for a shutdown. If a business shuts down, no one gets paid, so why should anyone working for the government?

Putting out a budget with a $1.6 trillion dollar deficit was enough for the many in the MSM to finally give up on this guy. There is really nothing left for them to defend.

you do realize that a full third of the deficit *(~$500B) was caused by the "tax compromise" brought about by the Republicans, right?

The deficit was to only be $1.1T, down from $1.25T in 2010, which was down from $1.4T at the end of Bush's term. Fiscal responsibility my a$$....

And the real kicker in this entire dog and pony show..

If Prince Nancy P. and Princess Harry R. would of done their job last year, we wouldn't be needing stop gap measures and temp funding bills. We would be running ON A BUDGET like we are mandated to do.

but lets not let pesky facts get in our way or partisan politics..

DrowingGrover,

The $500B tax compromise you are refering to, is that the Obama Tax Continuation Credit?

What kind of stupid people would shut down the government. Why cant people see just how stupid the whole idea is. The ones that want a government shut down need to show the American people what kind of grades they got in college I am willing to bet it was below 2.0 gpa. They cant possibly have an education in business with this kind of mind set. Welcome to the death of a nation with the congress we have today.

I would have a lot more respect for Republicans if they would just man-up and admit to the fact that their "budget" proposal is just a way to cut the programs they do not agree with.

The GOP loves to talk about cutting the EPA, but they conveniently ignore other programs. Why not something like the FCC? Aren't you all about "personal responsibility" and "less government"? The FCC tells us what is allowed on TV (more government) instead of allowing people and parents to take responsibility for what they watch (personal responsibility). So where is the call to cut that department? Why can't the Republicans stick to their principles?

The truth is this whole "budget plan" is just a way to push their social agenda on programs they do not agree with. But not a single conservative has the courage to stand up and admit it.

If they were honestly concerned about "cutting spending", then they would focus on the big 3 . . . medicare/medicaid, social security, and defense. If they were honest about seriously cutting the budget, they would cut EVERY agency, not just the ones they don't like.

DrowingGrover,

The $500B tax compromise you are refering to, is that the Obama Tax Continuation Credit?

yes, that is where the $500B went. But make no mistake about which party was/is responsible for forcing the continued taxcuts.

The Republicans held any legislation hostage until they got their extended taxcuts. They are 100% responsible for that particular $500B in the deficit...

DrowningGrover

DrowingGrover,

The $500B tax compromise you are refering to, is that the Obama Tax Continuation Credit?

yes, that is where the $500B went. But make no mistake about which party was/is responsible for forcing the continued taxcuts.

The Republicans held any legislation hostage until they got their extended taxcuts. They are 100% responsible for that particular $500B in the deficit...

Only in the mind of a Liberal does a tax cut extension add to the deficit...

SPENDING adds to the deficit, collecting less ( or in this case the same percentage as last year ) doesnt ADD to anything... it means you cannot spend as much..

I have no issue about who signed the bill - President Obama, the darling of he liberal left. Or is he still since he signed the bill? Now that he also dropped the Gay Marriage legislation, will he also lose the gay vote?

He's losing the left, losing the middle and kissing butt with the conservatives. He hasn't accomplished much but his Health Care that may be found to be unconstitutional.

No jobs since his election, and jobs were a part of his campaign. The economy has tanked, the deficit increased dramatically, with oil rising to over $4/gal......higher food costs around the corner.

Do you still believe he has a shot in 2012? Of course, you will answer yes, but I for one believe the Democrat/RP candidates will emerge from the woodwork yet. Hillary? and you also get Billy bob!

I would have a lot more respect for Democrats if they would just man up and admit that their policies have bankrupted several states and the "education" financing hasn't done a bloody thing to improve the state of education, and that is about 50 years of throwing money in the fire, and their welfare initiatives are insolvent and are being scammed and abused by the very people that they think they are helping, and etc...etc...etc

"f they were honestly concerned about "cutting spending", then they would focus on the big 3 . . . medicare/medicaid, social security, and defense"

hahaha...if they say one word about SS or Medicaid or Medicare the libnut Jethros will be going ballistic...and yes, since the libtards in Wisconsin have been getting a free pass by the media and you viners with their crosshairs and nazi signs , I will use the word "ballistic" with no regret or afterthought

if they say one word about SS or Medicaid or Medicare the libnut Jethros will be going ballistic

Wrong, their entire conservative base would go ballistic because they all rely on SS and medicare to survive. That is what happens when your entire base of support is over 65. The GOP won't touch SS or medicare because that would be a death sentence for all their votes. For all the talk about "personal responsibility", I don't know a single conservative who does not rely on SS to survive.

And I don't know why you try to bring up welfare and education . . . I don't want to pay into either of them. The welfare system is broken. We reward people who crap out more kids, and you conservatives want to add to this problem by outlawing abortion. Great idea . . . let's throw more money down the welfare drain by forcing these deadbeats to carry them to term. So you want to "cut spending" by increasing the number of people on welfare, thus spending more. Great idea.

DrowningGrover...(#1.41)...You wrote" you do realize that a full third of the deficit *(~$500B) was caused by the "tax compromise" brought about by the Republicans, right?"

The Truth-O-Meter says your statement is false.

You must have taken Obamanomics. That 500-700 Billion Dollar number that has been bandied about was the cost of the Tax rates for those making over 200-250,000 OVER THE NEXT 10 YEARS....That means at best 50-70 billion for the budget you cite....it is still my contention that not taking more money from someone does not add to the deficit...the Government SPENDING more than it takes in ADDS to the deficit

hahaha...he seems to always get back to his "kill kids" and that will solve the problems of America...we don't care about you and your womans struggle to justify your guilt about getting rid of your off spring, that's your problem (that's right, you have brought it up several times)

and I love the deflection to "Republicans want welfare" and "Republicans want women to have criminal children"...your posts are so laughable it's hard not to offer to buy a ticket to your comedy show...

I'm with you Steeler Fan. Who would have know that a shutdown would eventually cost more than it saved. Is the GOP and Tea Party listening?

Shutting down the government will not save money and may in fact cost more in the end.

What I do find amusing is that our elected representatives are not even in Washington trying to hammer out a compromise on a continuing resolution. They are too busy with their President's day vacation.

Spending cuts will be on the table but there will be no noticeable dent placed in the deficit by cutting non-defense discretionary spending. I echo what others have asked how come no one is talking about bringing in more revenue?

Yellowdog-Mark D

Shutting down the government will not save money and may in fact cost more in the end.

What I do find amusing is that our elected representatives are not even in Washington trying to hammer our a compromise on a continuing resolution. They are too busy with their President's day vacation.

What I find amusing and pathetic is this is the price the cowardly GOP/Tea Baggers will pay for what they think is freedom.

Is the GOP and Tea Party listening?

The GOP led House has passed the bill funding the 2011 budget. The GOP led House has made offers to the Senate about another Continuing Resolution (CR) to extend the deadline to mid-March so the Senate can take the time it needs to debate the House bill. The entire 2011 budget should have been passed and signed into law last year, but the Democrats in Congress decided not to do so.

So it's not a matter of the GOP listening, they've done there part. They met Obama's challenge to reduce the deficit, they have gotten their work done in a timely fashion. Now it's up to the Democrats in the Senate to vote for the House bill as it is, or come up with their own bill that could be reconciled with the House version.

Yes Beverly you are right.

The Taxed Enough Already crowd just had the lowest tax rates in decades lowered further by the temporary reduction in SS pay taken from their pay checks.

The 2011 budget would have been passed last year IF the GOP had not blocked passage.

Jody, Iowa: then please explain why the GOP [note corrected acronym] House is threatening to shut down government

The only one threatening to shut down the government is Harry Reid, and at last look, he's a Democrat. Reid hasn't passed any bill funding the government. Reid hasn't suggested any new CR. Reid didn't pass a budget last year that would have averted this crisis.

And there was no budget passed for 2011 last year. Pelsoi decided not to, and at last look, she's a Democrat too.

Great article and thanks. I thought I remembered that Republicans cost the taxpayers a lot of money when they last shut the government down but didn't have any confirmation.

Ok JoAnna and Jody,

I've researched it and I understand that the House did deem and pass the 2011 Budget last summer as part of another vote. I could find nothing about the Senate approving the Budget. Obama never signed it so I guess that is why he can still claim he never signed off on an earmark? Remember this is for fiscal year 2011 that started back in Sept. From Wikipedia there have been two continuing resolutions passed since then. The second ends next week. So here we are.

I think a good question to ask the FR guys (Boiler room) Does the 2011 budget have to be passed officially vs. the deem and pass option prior to the 2012 budget being debated and passed? Even a simple primer on the budgeting process for political newbies like me would be helpful.

Typical lib spin. GOP's fault?? Keep drinking that koolaid!! Who didn't pass a budget last year? Who submitted a 2011 budget with more than a $1.6 trillion deficit? Who ignored their own debt commission? Who set the original debt ceiling? Who approved all the spending bills? The Answer: Obama, Reid, Pelosi with huge democrat majorities in the house and senate.

Typical libs...they set the credit card limit, exceed it then blame it on the GOP. Sound like my teenage daughter running up her dad's credit card. Can't wait until 2012 when we finish sweeping dems out of office!!

Thanks YD.

Congress must appropriate the funds. We've been running under these Continuing Resolutions because Congress last year could not find it in them to get a budget passed. During the lame duck session, Harry Reid attempted to pass an omnibus bill that would have funded the government through fiscal 2011, but it was so stuffed with pork, even the Democratic leadership in the Senate had to blush and walk away from that one. That bill lasted about 24 hours before Harry withdrew the bill and passed the current CR the government is currently operating under, and will expire next week.

Steeler fan,

The Speaker is referring to Census workers hired and mandated by Congress. hmmmmm.

Does the $hutdown equate to = ALL Congressional members will GIVE UP THEIR PAY (AND) PER DIEM & REMAIN IN DC?

NO SICK LEAVE OR VACATION LEAVE PAY...OR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE BENEFITS. They want a $HUTDOWN give them one!

Check out those tax $avings$!!

The GOP led House has made offers to the Senate about another Continuing Resolution (CR) to extend the deadline to mid-March so the Senate can take the time it needs to debate the House bill.

No, the House GOP took their budget--the one they know is unacceptable--and scaled it exactly to a 2-week version. They're not working together or negotiating in good faith.

A government shutdown is the GOP's fault, plain and simple. Unless you blame the Democrats for not giving the GOP exactly what the GOP were demanding.

It's as if the Republicans thinks they control both houses of Congress and the White House when in fact the American people only gave them one of the three.

This whole thing about a Federal Government Shutdown costing the Government money is CRAP.

I'm currently a Federal employee and I was "furloughed" in 1996. I sat at home for five days watching TV. The next week I returned to work and got my ENTIRE PAY as if I had worked. Some people did work, those who were deemed "mission essential" (e.g., had contractors onsite doing work that needed to be monitored.) They received their pay for working that week, however I received my pay too, even thought I was NOT WORKING. That's why the "shut down" cost the Government $1B in costs, paying people for work they did not perform.

Note that the article mentions the majority of contractors in the private sector impacted by the shut down did not get paid. That's a difference between the private sector and the public sector. There is NO profit or loss motive in the public sector, NO need to live within your means or to keep to a budget. You just keep asking for, and receiving money... Other people's money.

Noelle, I agree congress and the senate should not get paid, but they will. Now do our seniors on Social Security not get paid if this happens? That is the real worry for me. I have so many seniors on my block that rely on their small social security check each month.

There have been 16 shutdowns in the last thirty years? How come I never noticed any?

Ah... now understanding dawns. A GOVERNMENT shutdown means no work gets done, but all the bills get paid. So in essence, it's a big grandstanding act by congress.

Add in the losses from the missing fees and taxes, and you get an expense, while they pretend the shutdown would save money. So again, they are planning to worsen the problem, not solve it.

The 2011 budget would have been passed last year IF the GOP had not blocked passage.

^this.

Who submitted a 2011 budget with more than a $1.6 trillion deficit?

both parties submitted it actually. The R's control 1/3rd of the government (e.g., the house) and a full third of the $1.6T deficit is directly attributed to the taxcut compromise reached last December.

Had that compromise not passed, the deficit would have only been $1.1T.

I have a few thoughts on "critical" goverment workers.

Air Traffic Controllers and TSA agents are NOT critical. They represent a direct government subsidy to private industry, the airline and airfreight industry. We shut down the air traffic in 2001, why not again? Note, this would also apply to cruise ships as well.

The Census Bureau can suspend operations. Of course this means we won't have a monthly unemployment and new jobs report. And redistricting of Congressional districts will probably be delayed as well.

The National Parks and Monuments can be closed. As has been done before.

Perhaps, we could suspend meat and poultry inspection. Either allow the products to be shipped as uninspected, or simply shut down production as well. Likewise, OSHA and Mine inspectors; with the proviso that ANY fatal accident during the suspension period will result in prison time for the operator CEO. Just like China.

Place all domestic non-support military contracts on-hold and issue stop-work orders.

Allow Congressmen no more than two staffers.

Most of the Transportation, Commerce, Labor and Agriculture Departments.

Close all federal buildings not used for direct law enforcement or forensics. Only current trials should be continued. Everything else is delayed. This should allow furloughing a lot of federal clerks, attorneys, and judges.

So what is essential? Basic law enforcement, the FBI, ICE, Customs and Border Security, the Coast Gaurd. The active military, including reserve and NG units training for deployment. Continued support to the ISS (International Space Station) where we have forgotten heroes continued to explore and research in space. Bank and Wall Street regulators, unless you are willing to let them go completely unpoliced. The CDC, unlike in 1995 when many research projects were lost due to that shutdown. And finally the Treasury department and Veterans department responsible for disbursing the funds that millions of our aged, infirm and veterans depend for as their income and health-care.

This is small government. Third World government. Stripped of the perks of speedy trials, unfettered rapid travel, convenient ports of entry, or "useless" goverment regulators. Too bad we won't have the Census Bureau to find out how many newly unemployed we'll have. Or how many proud small businesses that fail since they have lost either government contracts or their federal employee customer base. But we can still import oil and $1.98 tube socks from China.

The R's control 1/3rd of the government (e.g., the house) and a full third of the $1.6T deficit is directly attributed to the taxcut compromise reached last December.

Had that compromise not passed, the deficit would have only been $1.1T.

This is specious logic at best. Tax cuts don't add to deficits, only spending does. But lets extend your logic out. If the republicans had only allowed the democrats to increase taxes by 2.6 trillion, we would have a 1 trillion dollar surplus. DAMN those republicans! I mean we'd all be unemployed and taxed into poverty, but we would have a surplus!

Again Jeff, call or write Obama about HIS tax credit bill.......he has ownership of it. Did anyone else sign it? I don't believe I saw anyelse's name on the document. And don't give me that crap that the Republicans made him do it.....he had veto power and control.

Mil.Gov FTE employment has mushroomed by +50% since 2000.

US population increased by only ~23% in that same interval.

'Defense's' war profiteering has exploded by over +300% since 2000 to now ONE TRILLION A YEAR.

US GDP increased by only ~45% in that same interval.

Fed deficit-debt-spending-to-GDP went from minus (surplus) to $15 TRILLION in that same interval:

Year GDP-US $ billion Federal Deficit-fed pct GDP
2000 9951.5 -2.37
2001 10286.2 -1.24
2002 10642.3 1.48
2003 11142.1 3.39
2004 11867.8 3.48
2005 12638.4 2.52
2006 13398.9 1.86
2007 14077.6 1.14
2008 14441.4 3.18
2009 14258.2 9.91
2010 14508.2 8.92

This in irrefutable evidence of the Right Wing Mil.Gov Coup in 2000

and Mil.Gov's intent to sandbag our lives into Usury Serfs of America.

RIF THE WELFARE TAX DOLE BUMS BACK TO 2000 LEVELS!

Steve-505729

The cost will be a Great number of Democrats Jobs. Msnbc and others in the Liberal Media think they still are Steering the .. SHEEP the directions they want them to go. But infact As we did in Nov. Come 2012 We are Going to Get rid of Even more of the Liberal Democrats. The American People have Seen Enough.

You're not looking. All polls with the exception of Rasmussen aka Fox-mussen say differently.

BTW: Did you see these 2 polls

Fox Reverses Results Of Gallup Poll To Claim Americans Oppose Union Collective Bargaining Rights

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/02/23/fox-reverses-poll-union/

USA Today/Gallup Poll: 61% Oppose Limiting Union Bargaining Power

http://themoderatevoice.com/102199/usa-todaygallup-poll-61-oppose-limiting-union-bargaining-power/

They dont want this Failed Presidents Agenda Anymore. He Tricked them Once . it wont happen again..

REAL CLEAR POLITICS POLL

RCP Average
2/7 - 2/23
--
48.8
45.2
+3.6

Gallup
2/21 - 2/23
1500 A
46
46
Tie

Rasmussen Reports
2/21 - 2/23
1500 LV
47
53
-6

Newsweek/Daily Beast
2/12 - 2/15
918 LV
50
44
+6

CBS News
2/11 - 2/14
1031 A
48
41
+7

Democracy Corps (D)
2/7 - 2/9
1000 LV
51
44
+7

FOX News
2/7 - 2/9
911 RV
51
43
+8

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/

Notice Fox-mussen has the only negative numbers. Better re-think those numbers and your opinions; Stevie-o

Steve-505729

The cost will be a Great number of Democrats Jobs. Msnbc and others in the Liberal Media think they still are Steering the .. SHEEP the directions they want them to go. But infact As we did in Nov. Come 2012 We are Going to Get rid of Even more of the Liberal Democrats. The American People have Seen Enough. They dont want this Failed Presidents Agenda Anymore. He Tricked them Once . it wont happen again..

stevie, the mode of the country in 2 of the last 3 elections has been to get rid of the ultra consertiavies 2006, 2008 and in 2010 you guys finally pulled one out, 1 out of 3 is not bad.

your post really makes me laugh, LOL LOL in 2006 we got rid of the Bush republicasn that got us screwed for years to come, In 2008 we finished cleaning house, but i must say if not for the Koch brothers spending billions your guys would have been 0 for 3. so in baseball terms your guys are batting 100 over the last 4 years. if your were on the Yankees Big george may he rest in peace, would have bench you and sent you to single A ball.

I just wish eisenhower and Nison were alive to see his great party rules by Nut jobs that are distroying all they built, its also fuinny that Bob Dole remain very quite, I"m sure he is embarrised by all this as well, even Gerald Ford held his toung till after his death, when he blasted the current Republican party because in his party of Moderate republicans including Jack kemp, are all goan. sad.

why is it now when a news media reports on the truth they are considered the Liberal media. i guess Nut Job ultra consertavies only have One lone Voice and that fox.

GOD HELP YOU!!!

Hey stevie, hows your guys doing in wisconson now we know he is a DUMB A*S

LOL LOL LOL LOL

last steve, shut the governmoent down, once the seniors and combat soldiers don't get there money your guys will be 1 for 4 by 2012. then they will be CUT!!!!!

The real deal is, we are being lead, by clueless wonders, who drag us kicking and screaming over a cliff of their incompetence. There is no one policy enacted by this Administration that has been directed at freeing this country from slavery to oil cartels. There has only been further regulations/moratoriums, on fossil fuel choices for energy. The lamebrains who lead this "think tank" are going to have us all riding bicycles, if we can afford the tires, and have a job, to work. Then we will have the pleasure of slaving for enough food, maybe not enough heat, for one day. If you want to see the lights go out forever, just keep supporting the demos, who won't play, unless it is only by their rules. Worse than foolish, malfeasance!

Jeff-1541632...(#3.2)..."last steve, shut the governmoent down, once the seniors and combat soldiers don't get there money your guys"

The Truth-O-Meter says your (and I spelled it correctly) statement is false.

"

What happens to Social Security if the government shuts down?

"People don't get their Social Security checks." That was President Obama at a press conference last week.

And this is Harry Reid, the top Democrat in the Senate, in a statement on Tuesday: "A shutdown could ... mean no Social Security checks for seniors."

The Democrats are saber rattling, hoping to portray Republicans as irresponsible. And the claim has been repeated by other top Democrats.

Here's the rub: It doesn't appear to be true.

During the last major shutdown, which lasted about a month starting in late 1995, the Social Security Administration mailed checks throughout the crisis, and a close reading of established law makes clear the agency has the legal authority to do so again.

"I am absolutely sure the checks would be sent out," said John F. Cooney, a partner at law firm Venable who designed shutdown plans for the government while employed at the Office of Management and Budget.

Robert Reischauer, president of the Urban Institute and a trustee of the Social Security and Medicare trust funds, backed that view, saying claims that benefits won't be paid are "not true."

https://news.fidelity.com/news/news.jhtml?cat=Economy.US&articleid=201102232123CNN_____MONEY____-2011-02-23-news-economy-shutdown_social_security-index_htm&IMG=N

Beverly - I noticed that one of the thinkprogressive bloogers mentioned that fox admitted to and corrected their error at the end of the program, but yet you failed to mention this little tidbit didn't you?

For one I seen that they are sending I for got how many more troops to Afghanis this saving money Heck no? Bring our troops home and stop spending money on a war we will not win Wake Up Obama!!!!. If people really believe he will get another 4 years are really missing a few bolts in there sockets. You can't blame it all on Bush some yes but not all of it. Jimmy Carter people liked him Why? he's the one who let the stinking government start using our Social Security for there use, Did you know that? Another piece of dung getting praises for nothing. I have not voted for any of these low lives and I won't , for they all lie each one of them. Oh and watch and see there will be a cost of living raise this year. That will be for Obama to get people to vote for him LOL!!! I got his number. So goodbye so many more young lives today my heart is very heavy for there Mothers, Fathers, Sisters, Brothers, Wives, Children, Attaa the way to go Obama kill them all take no innocence back with you for its gone. I for one know a Mother who's son had to kill a 8 year old boy How proud Obama would be Now are we proud of what our people have to do. Get our troops out and keeps the budget HERE!!!!

JoAnne - Get over it already. Why shouldn't workers get back pay especially if they are out of work through no fault of their own. They do have a contract or are you against contracts or only those which you don't wish to honor.

Wrong, it is not the fault of the employees if Congress prevents them from going to work; they did not voluntarily go on strike or walk off the job or call in sick. If Congress locks the doors but do so without firing or laying off the workers, those workers are entitled to pay because they were stopped from doing their jobs. It's not as if Government were closing its doors permanently and firing everyone, they aren't so comparing it to private business shutting down and laying off or firing people is like comparing apples to oranges. Really isn't that hard to understand.

Jody - It is for JoAnna she has a small brain.

Yes, of course, the sense of entitlement. The one and only true core value of the Liberal.

Actually, in the private sector, Companies have to pay their employees if they shut down/lay people off. they face lawsuits otherwise. As well as public workers those people also get unemployment which the employer has to pay in to (which equals about to what most government workers makes any how you Conservatives just like pointing to the small percentage that double dip).

Please educate yourself before taking a side.

I'm one of those federal employees and trust me, I am not looking on it as a paid holiday. The back pay IS NOT GUARANTEED. Then even if it is given, it won't arrive until some date in the future. That doesn't help me pay my bills now. Thank god I have some savings, but I cannot afford to pay my rent, meet my financial obligations (including student loan payments to the government), and my utilities for more than 3 or 4 weeks since I live within my means and don't have credit cards to float me. In preparation for a shutdown I have given up a great many things, like all Americans, to build a financial cushion to hopefully get me through.

Stop making federal workers pariahs. We do a great deal that you won't even realize until you can't get asssistance or something goes wrong. Also, please explain to me why service to this country is honored when you enlist in the military and put on a uniform, but those of us who take the exact same oath of office and serve in non-military capacities are leeches on the American Tax Payer. We pay taxes too and we care just as much as you do about how our money is spent.

Berenerd............yea, we know........we call them 99ers

Right there in soladarity with you Amy. Coming from the state employee realm!

Amy,

The answer to your question is simple: "please explain to me why service to this country is honored when you enlist in the military and put on a uniform, but those of us who take the exact same oath of office and serve in non-military capacities are leeches on the American Tax Payer."

It's a shell game... distract the eye of the crowd (in this case, the "Right"), while moving the ball (in this case the money) to a different location.

Public employees are no more the problem to our financial woes than my dog.. but the public employees are an easy to understand target (i.e., need to give the simpletons something they can focus on), so it's what folks like the Koch's use to get their ultimate goal.

Stop making federal workers pariahs. We do a great deal that you won't even realize until you can't get asssistance or something goes wrong. Also, please explain to me why service to this country is honored when you enlist in the military and put on a uniform, but those of us who take the exact same oath of office and serve in non-military capacities are leeches on the American Tax Payer. We pay taxes too and we care just as much as you do about how our money is spent.

Amy, this is a GREAT post. I hope you don't mind if I reference this post when I am dealing with the right-wingers that want to FIRE all of you.

Amy-1388311 -

Great post. Makes me think of that old song "Walk a Mile In My Shoes":

If I could be you, if you could be me
For just one hour, if we could find a way
To get inside each other's mind
If you could see you through my eyes
Instead of your own ego I believe you'd be
I believe you'd be surprised to see
That you've been blind

Walk a mile in my shoes
just walk a mile in my shoes
Before you abuse, criticize and accuse
Then walk a mile in my shoes

I hope you won't need to use those savings - I know what that's like. Good luck.

I wish everyone would get their facts straight!! First, and foremost, the average federal salary is NOT $150,000!!! It is more in the range of $35-42k! The $150k includes all the attorneys and physicians on the federal payroll! Second, as has been mentioned several times, federal employees are NOT the cause of the economic problem; the problem is in monetary policy and printing of money for QE1, 2, 3, ...etc. Third, there is a misconception that federal employees are unionized....WRONG. I am a 25-yr federal employee and am not part of any union; in fact, in my position I am not able to be part of a union. Fourth, over the last 25 yrs the Treasury has dipped into the Federal Employee Savings fund several times to bail out various entitlement programs and has NEVER paid any of it back! Fifth, for much of my time in federal govt each President has cited "national economic emergency" to prevent a comparable COLA increase to the private sector. Sixth, federal employees pay approximately 25% of their health benefits premiums compared to most state employee's cost of 5-10%! And we do NOT get the same benefits as Congress!! Lastly, we pay federal and state taxes just like everyone else and DO NOT get any perks that so many seem to think we have.

Regarding the political situation in Wisconsin, Sen Tom Harkin said something to the effect that it was not fair to lay the budget shortfall on the backs of public servants. Well, Mr. Harkin (and all others in Congress), exactly what do you think you are doing to the federal employees? With a proposed 2-week (now, I hear one day aweek) mandatory furlough in the works for federal employees, that amounts to a 3% cut in salary (10% if 1 day a week). Not to mention the loss of any COLA which never amounts to anything when insurance premiums go up 8-15% (like everyones). To anyone who wants a shutdown without retroactive pay and to cut federal employees salaries and benefits, just remember you asked for it when your unemployment check or food stamp checks are late or when you get sick from tainted food, etc.. afterall, you asked for it.

SactoJD, The answer to your question is quite simple: The military is actually placing their life on the line to preserve freedom, while you don't. Simple enough?

Berenerd,

Just curious: what country do you live in?

Here in the private sector, if a company closes--permanently or temporarily--that company is obligated *only* to what is published in the employee manual at the time of the shutdown. In other words, you as a company officer are bound to what you promise your employees in writing. No more.

I worked for two public companies that needed to institute forced closures. In one instance all back-pay was reissued when profits increased and the danger passed. In the other case, the pay cuts were permanent...and so were the lay-offs that followed (with *no* severance).

There are no guarantees in the private sector. If you don't stipulate in your *written* contract that the company has to pay you for temporary company closures, then you don't have a legal leg to stand on. And no company would ever agree to that unless you were a *very* highly prized commodity (like, say, the CEO).

If our Federal employees have that guarantee, then kudos to them...but I'm not happy about having to pay for it. It's security I don't enjoy, and don't feel they should, either...at least not on my dime.

Berenerd

Actually, in the private sector, Companies have to pay their employees if they shut down/lay people off. they face lawsuits otherwise. As well as public workers those people also get unemployment which the employer has to pay in to (which equals about to what most government workers makes any how you Conservatives just like pointing to the small percentage that double dip).

Please educate yourself before taking a side.

Actually, the private sector doesn't have to pay when they lay someone off. That's the point. Now if there is a union contract in place, that's one thing (and the reason so many on the right are opposed to the unions). Non union employees do not get paid when they are laid off or the company closes for business. They don't get paid, period.

What I do think is funny is those on the left that advocate paying people back pay because they have a contract in place. What do you suggest doing if the government doesn't pay. You would be advocating for those employees to sue for breach of contract. Yet, when AIG employees are contractually obligated to get paid a bonus, so many from the left demanded they have to be repaid. Why because is was a waste of tax payer money! Same thing here in my opinion. So, I am assuming if you are advocating for federal employees to get back pay if the government shuts down because the are contractually obligated to recieve it, you didn't have a problem with AIG employees getting their contractually obligated bonuses. Defend one without defending the other.

Amy-1388311 writes:

"... Also, please explain to me why service to this country is honored when you enlist in the military and put on a uniform, but those of us who take the exact same oath of office and serve in non-military capacities are leeches on the American Tax Payer."

I would argue that a very large majority of government civillians are non-combatants and it would be illegal for them to pick up a weapon and fight...Uniformed service members of our military ARE lawful combatants and are authorized to step up to the 25-meter and 5-meter ready lines and answer their call to duty. Even though you swore the same oath of office (I'll have to look into that one; I only remember my oath and it was an oath of enlistment), the fact that a disproportionate amount of body bags coming home have military members in them...Not civillian

I respect government civillians as their role to govern over our uniformed service members, but we all know our roles and responsibilities. I believe that ensuring the benefits and services to them should remain intact for our service members. THAT should be paramount in any budget battle; it's the least we can do for those kids...It should have equity and on par as Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security...

Don't get me started on Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security...

:-)

safecracker,

So by your logic anyone that is wearing a uniform, but is not in direct line of a bullet is also a leech on the taxpayers. What exactly does a civil servant have to do to be considered valuable, besides carry a gun? I'm going to garner a guess that Amy plays a much more vital role in the country to her fellow citizens than you do.

JoAnne,

First, private industry does pay back pay. Ironically, when I was laid-off, I got not only my vacation and accrued severence, but also my back pay for furlough days and 10% pay cut. None of which I would have seen if they continued my employment.

Second, The vast majority of the $9.5b does not go to payroll. It goes to interest on the debt, to "entitlement" payments (SSI, veterans and pensions), to subsidy payments to the post office and to the states for state-administered federal programs, to contractors (ranging from aircraft maintenance to food service at military bases and prisons to janitorial services), to building leases and maintenance, and to motor-pool expenses. Not to mention the energy costs to light, heat, cool and secure government buildings.

On a personal level, ask yourself this. If I lose MY job, do my bills go away? Do I no longer feed or house MYSELF or MY children? My brother died two years ago, debt-free. Bills continued to trickle in for eight months, and it took fourteen months (and thousands of dollars) to close the estate. If you can't even die with continuing to spend money, why do you assume that a government shutdown means the Federal bills stop. The real thing that does stop is Federal revenue. Just in time for filing income taxes...

Who knows who will be eventually blamed for a shutdown. I bet Gingrich thought he had the public's support back in the shutdowns of the 90's; but he was wrong. Polls and predictions are tricky that way people are fickle.

I agree though, the Senate and House should be in session to convene, discuss or at least yell at each other about it. I know most people don't take a week off before a major deadline or project is due.

Who knows who will be eventually blamed for a shutdown.

The media is already ramping up that it's the GOPs fault. Even though Boehner has done everything he can to accomodate the Democratic led Senate.

I agree though, the Senate and House should be in session to convene, discuss or at least yell at each other about it.

That's the way it works. Reid has been out front of this all week saying "No!!" to the budget bill the GOP House has passed and "No!!" to the offer of another CR. So Harry, where's your bill? Where's your CR? Where's your plan to reduce the deficit? Don't see any of them. We just see/hear you saying "No!".

Boehner stood up there and shouted "H3ll NO!!" and they elected a group of idiot Republicans with no answers other than to cut aid to people that are already in need? These cuts are ones they knew never had a chance of getting passed so they aren't even trying to work the problems out!

So why not take it from the GOP playbook and just say No??.. They thought it was so easy to run the government, let's see them actually make some difficult choices like NOT keeping up pet jet engine projects!

The House budget bill is utterly ridiculous--pretending to cut the budget by cutting things like heating subsidies for poor people or milk for poor kids. The Repub budget doesn't touch the real budget busters: Defense, Medicare, and SS.

Reid can't negotiate with that kind of nonsense!

JoAnnaSmith1, If "Boehner has done everything he can to accomodate the Democratic led Senate", he must be totally incompetent since he has done nothing to attempt to come to a compromise. It is still the same for the Republicans as it has been for the last 15 years - our way or no way.

the budget for this year was supposed to be done back in October by the libbie Jethro that was in control...she failed...on purpose...any "shutdown" falls on the shoulders of your hero The Sea Hag Nancy Stuplousey...oh she is from Smellifornia, ring a bell to anyone?

Let's see---who adds more value to our society? The firefighter who risks his life to save others or Rush Limbaugh (who I remember when he was a "bubble gum" radio DJ in Pittsburgh)?

Jody the republicans aren't shutting down the government it is the democrats in the senate who won't vote for the spending cuts in the budget, so put the blame where it belongs,

The Republican spending cuts are utterly insane. They're too afraid to touch Medicare, SS, and Defense so they target miniscule stuff like family planning and heat subsidies.

The blame belongs with the Repubs for even pretending anyone can go along with their nonsense.

cliff, the Democrats have offered several compromise bills, which the Republicans refuse to consider. The blame is equally shared. Funny how compromise can work when it's about blame...

Wow, sounds like a reverse of the HC bill with Obama, Harry and Nancy.

Jody

"Our way or the highway" was perfected by your libbie Jethros and the "we will pass the Healthcare Reform Scam and Ponzi Scheme without Republicans because "we won, get over it"...nice try with the deflection though , please try again and thanks for playing the game

That's quite possibly the dumbest thing said here today. Let me recap;

Conservatves didn't like the Affordable Care Act even though it had over 100 provisions suggested by Republicans. As a result of this action in the last Congress Republicans are justified in refusing to negotiate on budget reductions. Therefore if Democrats refuse to support their position on this matter it'll be the Democrats fault if the government shuts down.

With a position like that the only way Republicans WON'T be blamed for a government shut down is if Americans accept their insanity plea.

Republicans would love it if Social Security and Medicare disappeared tomorrow. They never have cared about working people, seniors, children, students. It's not their constituency and that's why this country is on a downward spiral. You can't have a strong America when the only strong ones are the wealthy and corporations. After all there are more workers than there are rich people and corporations. Seems to me there needs to be balance and there is none now.

I just wonder what they think they would do with all the people who would end up on the street if they eliminated Social Security and Medicare like they seem to want to do? Would they reinstate poorhouses? Back in the days when they had poorhouses, there were a lot fewer people in the country. Or would they just let them pile up in the streets? Would every park become a place for the homeless to put their cardboard boxes? I just never hear anyone talking about the actual consequences.

LOL Shows what you know and that is nothing, granny and grandpa will still get there social security checks.

If they don't, will you take care of them? They took care of you and/or your parents until you were able to be on your own. They worked and paid into social security all their working lives. It isn't their fault the money was mis-managed. Now, are they to be tossed out and forgotten. This country is becoming so heartless and uncaring. Some of the posting on here are so cold, I think there is no hope for us as a nation.

Cliff

the Jethros don't read before they open their yaps...Bill Maher tells them "what is" and they run with it...thanks for trying though

The Republicans have done nothing but obstruct, since 2008, and it looks A lot like they are going to send us into another perfect storm, since they took control of congress they have been concentrating on how to win the election in 2012" not one thing to create jobs, and the Republican attack on the Unions, is counter productive to creating jobs, they got the budget balanced , but are trying to break the Unions, as a political move that is not the time to do this with the economy still weak , HOPE the country can survive until 2012, when they are voted out!!!

"..., but are trying to break the Unions"

Why do you guys continually miss the point here? The issue is PUBLIC unions, not private ones. Again the liberal champion FDR was totally against unions among government workers. Read this article and then attempt to defend the public employees, who have no problem holding the American public hostage while claiming they have a "right" to collective bargining. I would like to hear a rational explaination....FOR ONCE on this subject.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/2011/02/20/why_fdr_warned_against_public_unions_250811.html

Tracy, does it matter to you that the public unions aren't the cause of any of the issues facing this nation? They are just working people. Working people who, by and large, rarely make what their private sector counterparts make.

First the public unions, after that is accomplished, then the private unions. There is a method in their madness!

No Kacy, the private unions, the small amount of them left, are not funded by taxpayers and would not be challenged. Why would you make that connection? Is someone telling you to connect the dots? I have heard that a lot lately, it is a favorite saying on the libbie network.

When a state funded by tax revenues doesn't have the money to fund entitlements that legislators pass into law is exhausted, what other avenues do the states have available to them? Cut entitlement programs, reduce pension funds, increase the capital required by the employees for med care, layoffs? These factors happen in the private sector companies where not only do they have to make a profit, pay a dividend to their stockholders, and pay employee costs, salary reductions, insurance participation increases, and reductions to staff happen. It is unfortunate but accepted.

Union employees treat their jobs, benefits, salaries as entitlements. It is interesting to see how many municiple or state pension funds are underfunded. If you are a union member you should see that financial health of your fund.

Falstaffsmind, you are missing the point.

It is the pension funds and the health benefits of the public unions that is draining the coffers of the state governments(look at all of the States having financial issues and look at how much of the budget is dedicated to these items). The problem is that this pension and health fund never decreases it continually increases year after year. In order to support those long term, taxes collected has to increase at the same or larger rate than the increasing pension & health funds. That isn't happening right now and the problem is that if you don't correct it now it will be uncorrectable later. The federal government is missing that point as well with all the debt it is carrying as well.

they are a part of it...Rip Van Winkle

@retired Military-I am prior military who just got out and I also work for the govt...people have the misconcepion that federal workers make tons of money and have all these perks well, sorry to say we dont the perks we have are the same as a public sect worker health benes, 401k etc as for pay I wish i got paid over 100000 like doctors or the lawyers but i dont. I work in an office (i have a masters in which i earned while serving) and analyze data which is then turned into legislation to keep Americans safe. For someone to say that we are bottom feeders is bs...sorry but its the non essential employees who make sure things get done. Shut down the govt then things wont get done and US comes to a standstill.. I personally love my job and would rather work and not have to worry about my house or feeding my kids or worrying how to pay my bills since i dont make tons of money i live paycheck to paycheck........I swore and oath to the military I upheld my oath and will always uphold my oath even when i am not in the military same for this govt job i swore an oath and will uphold my oath to the govt and to the American people who i serve.

"Shut it down, it has no purpose in my life at all."

So no mail you're good without mail? Or how about those roads you drove to work today on? And all the stoplights you were at... What about the street lights that are on at night in your area so you have a safer place to live and work.. How about we pull all these from your area and let you build your own? Perhaps you can construct your own sewer and water systems? Or instead you can go back to drinking from streams and digging an outhouse.

The issue is too many people take for granted what we have at this point and don't want to pay their fair share. I personally think we should pay MORE taxes for all we are provided, but then again I'm not a greedy jerk wad like you obviously.

Fro over 10 years we've had "trickle down" economics and there are no jobs and we're in a terrible financial state. That line of crap should have ended and they should have let all tax cuts expire.. THEN They could talk about cutting programs that don't make sense like subsidizing oil companies, or paying farmers NOT to grow.

So for you, you should either not use any benefits of the government, or shut up and pay for them!!

I will buy what I need when I need it! I provide my own utilities and roads, the Federal Government is a complete waste, state governments have fallen lock-step in draining all the income from little america to build edifices to themselves. turn it all into services for hire, remove ALL welfare and entitlements and maybe some people would find out what it is like to work for a living. And by the way I pay everydy for the crappy government and their waste and lifestyles. I have contributed significantly more than 98% of the americans out there, and I am not going to do it anymore. I opt out of this great experiment.....call democrazi....

Falcon - You WIN! For posting one of the dumbest post on MSNBC. I doubt you paid 98% more than the americans out there. You are not very smart if you think shutting the Government down is a good idea. It will cost more money! Have fun drinking out of the pond and growing your own food. If you think you can do without the Government try it for one day. Actually you know what this country would be like without the Government... It would most likely be destroyed by others. You are a waste of life and I am sure 98% of the people here agree with me.

Wonder what the publication date will be for Ted Falcon Kaczynski's new manifesto.

Imagine all pay roads, as soon as you get out of the driveway a meter starts like a taxi. You get a bill every month for $500 and your car will not start if the bill is not paid. We spread the load among 200 million drivers and 10s of millions of truckers and we get roads.

Imagine everyone who buys fuel pays taxes that go toward road construction and maintenance, and 300 million citizens who pay taxes that partly go toward infrastructure. We already have roads. Why reinvent the wheel? The real problem isn't figuring out how to pay for this stuff, it's that we have a fair number of people who don't feel like paying for it. That's what happens when you build an entire industry around convincing people that providing bridges that don't fall down is "stealing" from people.

True American-2366567

The democrats don't care that this country is BROKE...

republicans don't care they are the reason why we are boke, i guess this is called selecitve memory. they only remember what happened after januray 21 2009 instead of coming clean from january 2001 till january 20, 2009.

Republicans selective menory, hey guys don't forget the take your menory Pills, your perscritpions need refilling.

Jeff......I see you didn't comment on the rest on my post.

What's up with that?

Doesn't really matter how we go here....WE'RE HERE NOW...and the only people I see trying to make the hard choices is the RIGHT.

"How is this democratic, transparent, or fair?"

This from an idiot who's party would NOT agree a bill to require disclosure of who funded the political PACs that helped all these Republicans with all of the secret money??

Please, Mr Pot.. Meet Mr Kettle!! You want transparency??? Stop taking corporate bribes in the form of PAC money and boot the members of the Supreme Court that were wrong about money flowing in a destroying elections!

You guys can NEVER respond to a direct question regarding the ISSUE AT HAND.

So, I'll take that to mean you are in favor of teachers being FORCED to pay into a union they may or may not agree with to get or keep at job.

Great work Beaker1

Go ahead and keep blaming only one side of congress for this @!$%#. I hope it allows you to sleep at night.

Fact is, the repubs are doing the same damn thing the dems did for the past two years. The only difference is that when the dems were doing it, they had solid majorities in both the house and senate and could pretty much do what they want regardless of what the repubs said. And for the things they had trouble with, there was always the added bonus of bribes from the dem president.

I'm sick and tired of ALL of those retarded idiots that got voted into congress this year and for the past 3 elections. Not a single one of them gives a @!$%# about any of us as long as they can get your vote and you sit there and continue to cheer for "your side" and blast the other while both parties continue to @!$%# us in the ass.

Speaking as someone who DID make it past the 7th grade, open both of your eyes and see what ALL of them are doing. Maybe you'll find that the dems and the repubs share the same exact tactics: Do what they want to so they can get re-elected and then blame the other guy when it goes wrong. Until you wake up, they are just going to keep doing it and we will ALL be @!$%#ed.

EXACTlY!

Unfortunately Congress is just about as extremist as the name-callers you see on Newsvine! You know, representatives are REPRESENTATIVE of the people!

This isn't a problem that has just popped up over the past couple of years -- it's been building for decades. It's EVERYONE'S fault and EVERYONE'S problem.

Until they quit acting like children (hmm maybe a time out or a good old fashioned spanking might help), nothing will get done.

Whether you believe ALL the figures in this story or not -- closing down the government is inexcusable and very unfair to both the workers AND the country as a whole. We deserve a WORKING government so -- CONGRESS -- get to work and COMPROMISE!

DITTO

By Henry Lamb - 1999 WorldNetDaily.com - December 9, 1999 - Where was the mainstream news media when Hillary Clinton introduced Walter Cronkite to the World Federalist Association on Oct. 19? Television cameras focused on Hillary's baseball cap; it is far more important that voters know where she stands on the issue of national sovereignty. Not until WorldNetDaily reported the Cronkite speech Nov. 30, did Americans discover that both Hillary and Walter are avid advocates of world government.

Cronkite's appeal for world government came only five days before the release of the Charter for Global Democracy which embodies the version of world government preferred by the United Nations Association.

Both the UNA and the WFA have been promoting world government for years. Through contrived crises, they have been implementing a sense of urgency. Cronkite's group, the WFA, prefers a "federalist" system which would create a weighted system of voting in the U.N. General Assembly to create a legislative body roughly akin to the American Congress. The UNA prefers a "consensus" process that takes into account recommendations offered by civil society (non-government organizations accredited by the U.N.).

Both organizations want to elevate the U.N. to world government status and empower the U.N. to enforce all international law. In fact, in 1986, the WFA filed suit against the United States over U.S. foreign policy, arguing that Article VI of the U.S. Constitution made the U.N. Charter as well as other U.N. treaties, the "supreme law of the land." The courts ruled against the WFA in 1989.

Hillary's presence at the WFA meeting, and her introduction of Cronkite, directly aligns her with the world government movement, and particularly with the WFA's world government aspirations.

Cronkite called for the "revision" and limitation of the veto power of permanent members of the U.N. Security Council. The Commission on Global Governance and the Charter for Global Democracy call for the elimination of both the veto and permanent member status on the Security Council. This latter recommendation will be presented as the needed "reform" to the Millennium Assembly next September. Cronkite's more timid approach, as well as his "federalism" ideas have been overwhelmed by the U.N.'s "consensus" process now on a fast track toward adoption.

Cronkite called for the immediate ratification of a laundry list of U.N. treaties, including the infamous Convention on the Rights of the Child; the Convention on the Elimination of all forms of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW); and, "most important," Cronkite says, the International Criminal Court, which empowers the U.N. to prosecute American citizens whether or not it is ratified by the Senate.

Hillary made her support for these positions clear when she attended the U.N. Beijing Conference on Women in 1995.

Cronkite said in order to achieve world government, "Americans will have to yield up our sovereignty."

Under the world government scheme embodied in the Charter for Global Democracy, any individual nation could wield only the power assigned to it by the U.N. National armies would be disarmed to the level of a national police force. The U.N. would maintain a "directly recruited" standing army under the direct authority of the U.N. Secretary-General. Private citizens would be disarmed, and the U.N. would control the manufacture, sale, licensing and distribution of all firearms.

To finance this expanded world government, the U.N. would be given the authority to impose taxes on the exchange of currency, on the use of resources, including air, outer space, and the seas. Taxing authority is seen not only as the source of unlimited revenue, but also as a way to force a reduction of natural resources, especially fossil fuels, water, trees, and minerals.

Like the Clinton administration, and other world government advocates, Cronkite demeans opponents. He says that like America's rejection of the League of Nations, current opposition to world government is "led by a handful of willful senators who choose to pursue their narrow, selfish political objectives at the cost of our nation's conscience."

The fact that people of the stature of Hillary Clinton and Walter Cronkite are now willing to publicly advocate world government is an indication of their confidence that the world is now ready to accept their plan. World government is no longer the exclusive domain of the "black helicopter crowd." Finally, the sinister plans to rule the world are being exposed by those who expect to rule.

The timeline is, indeed, short. After decades of silent and denied preparation, the United Nations has made public the millennium year agenda which is crowned by the largest gathering of heads of state in the history of the world next September.

World government, called "global governance" by the U.N., will not occur on any certain day. It is a process that has been underway for years. The Millennium Assembly and summit next September, with the adoption of the Charter for Global Democracy, is seen to be the point from which there is no turning back.

The only way to stop world government at this late date, is for the American people to send a government to Washington in the next election that can muster the courage to just say, "No."

What has this to do with the forum of the government shutting down because of no budget?

But they will insist that they are doing their job. People in this country should come together and show that those in Congress or in Senate are endangered species. Only people can teach them a lessen, we should not give presents ( a seat with a bow) for doing NOTHING, and what difference it will make when they come back to work when they still do nothing....?

You forgot your tinfoil hat again!

Sorry, I meant to press reply, not like! Once again..What has this got to do with our government shutting down because of a budget not being passed. Can't you, at least, try to stay on subject!!!!

can;t we all play nice on here someone will get spanked if not !!!

Another example of media BS. They just make up crap. The article says past government shut downs COST the taxpayers because the government "... failed to collect $63 million in fines because of cancelled facility inspections during the November shutdown in 1995." What crap! If they didn't do the inspections how do they know there would have been any fines? You mean to tell me they spent our money based on the expectation of FINES? Then they count lost fees due to "Uncollected airline taxes" and "fees by users of government facilities like national parks also added up". No wonder we're in deep @!$%#. Who budgets what they can pay with money they "think" they might get because of the number people they "think" might visit some place? As for the "back pay", that money would have been paid anyway, so how is that a "problem" unless they paid them double. I don't believe their numbers for a minute. Either our government has more freaking morons running then I thought or the author of this article is full of crap on top of crap.

Patricia,

Good points. And notice their is no mention of any savings from a shutdown.

Rick,KY.....I DOUBLE-DOG DARE THE CONGRESS TO TAKE A PAY AND BENEFITS CUT.

Since they believe cutting pay and busting unions is what's best for this country they should lead by example and take the same cuts they are proposing.

That would save BILLIONS !!!!

MariahH,

No, that would not save billions.

If all our senators, and all our represenatives gave up ALL their pay, and ALL their health care, the savings would be about 125 million per year. That's a little more than 10% of one Billion per year.

That's all.

That's giving up ALL their pay, and ALL their health care.