Jeff, you missed the point. It wasn't important why he fired the controllers, the fact is that it was the beginning of the fall of Communism in the Soviet Union.

What I don't get is why Reagan spent so much money building up the Military to battle the Soviets, when he could have just fired the controllers and saved billions. Typical Republican, some believe you can impose your will on others to encourage Democracy. Turns out, the people will do it on their own, eventually, without the need for a unilateral invasion. Or killing Americans and spending Trillions.

Jeff,

you seem to think this is just about Teachers. its about other State Workers as well. But in the End. both Teacher and other State Workers will lose Jobs. Becaiuse Tax payers can no longer Afford to pay More and more and more. to keep them Employed.. its the way business works. If you can't afford to keep people working. some of them have to go..

Oddly though, Wisconsin can afford to hike tax breaks for corporations --that was ok? Guess Wisconsin can just send their kids to Illinois for school...

So be it. If the Tax Payers can no longer afford education, their children are ignorant. If they can no longer afford police protection, they become crime victims. If they can no longer afford fire services, their homes burn...but we can still afford tax cuts for the top 2%.

Air Traffic Control "Union Officals" were not fired - they were all on "Union Business Leave" -LOOK IT UP!

Steve, we can't afford education and pay teachers more and more, but corporate CEO we can afford paying more and more?

Regan was totally justified in what he did to the Air Traffic Controllers...

This situation is entirely different.

I think Spanky's question about 5 dollars a gallon is a legitimite question. What could Obama do? Let's see, first off we have to say that if he does anything, Spanky won't like it, and will accuse him of being a communist, socialist, libtard, but, let's assume that Obama's not afraid of Spanky. He could, if the country really has a life threatening energy emergency, nationalize the oil companies. Be careful what you wish for Spanky, it could come true, all of it, not just the part you want.

Pointing to Reagan Firing the air traffic controllers as the start of the fall of communism is not only naive, but completely short sighted. The Soviet Union fell because of economics. Oil prices rose and they could not afford the ridiculous Cold War.

People in power do not hold as much power as you think. People with money on the other hand...

Eric.

its private Money from a Private company................... I dont care how they spend it. When it comes to Tax Payer Dollars. thats what i am worried about.

This telephone message is very revealing. The fact that the Koch's are trying to shape America to their liking is evident and they are spending millions to buy the GOP. I see lots of comments here that are not discussing the article. Simply ignoring the facts or just making up their own. The primary goal of Walker's is to bust the Union. Koch is BIG business and getting rid of the Unions benefit him. I do understand that Walker only thought that he was talking to Koch but, he clearly indicated that they were on the same page. Walker is pathetic and I only hope that the citizens of WI will not forget this. Recall him as soon as possible and do the same for all of the other Republican Governors that are bought and paid for by big corporate fat cats and the Koch's.

So Steve, education is not important then? We are falling farther and farther behind.

Steve, the workers in Wisconsin have agreed to pay cuts, etc. Walker still wants to take away the unions even after they agreed to take the cuts.

If there were no tax breaks for the rich, there would not be this budget crisis. Where is the money that was supposed to trickle down from the rich having more money?

LIZ,

I want the unions gone too. People should not be forced to pay UNION dues to a Union that they have No say in where the money they are forced to say goes.. You can continue to Rail against the Rich, I dont care. but Again. Your Solution is to always take more Money away from the People that Create jobs. You always want to tax the Very people that provide the Goods and Serivces you BUY. IE CARS FOOD CLOTHES GAS ELECTRICITY . So why dont you just give the Govt your Money. You dont really need to go thru a Middleman. Just take all the Extra money you have and give it to the Govt.. Or. you can Raise Taxes on Business. Give them there Cut . While they Send the other part of your MONEY to the Govt. Either way. The GOVT is going to get. YOUR MONEY............ Until such time as you Realize that Govt is to big..

Dosh27935, how Fox spunned it:

Gallup/USA poll showed that 61% of Americans oppose Overlord Walker's scheme to end worker negotiating rights.

Protonic reversal quickly ensued, whereupon Fox ('news') presenter reported that 61% of those polled were in favor of it.

Steve,

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but it would be worth so much more if supported by the facts. Unions cannot give money to politicians without the approval of the members who elect the leadership. Corporations, on the other hand can give unlimited amounts to politicians or causes they support without even consulting the stockholders who own the company. In addition you should know that those of us who receive a large part of our income from investments actually pay a much smaller tax rate than those who receive their entire income from salary or Social Security or pensions. This is why Warren Buffett, one of the richest men in the world, has stated that he pays a lower tax rate than his secretary. Does that sound fair to you? Is that an example of how we value work in this country? Why would you support a political party that created and supports such corrupt practices?

So once again, if we take all of the assests from the rich, who pays the bills next month or the month after that or the month after that? Sure, it would take longer to run out of money if we took everything from the rich, but rest assured, we would run out a lot sooner than most people think.

As for giving tax breaks to businesses, well Wisconsin NEEDS businesses. With business comes employment, which will increase tax revenues. Without business and their employees tax revenues decrease. Again, you can raise taxes and take it all from the rich, but what happens when you blow through their money and the bills keep coming?

I agree the government wastes too much money, but Walker is a "stooge" for the Kochs and corporations. He gives the money in tax breaks to the rich, and place the burden on the backs of the middle class. He has no other choice since he is the Kochs "lackey".

Cal,

Since Warren Buffets income all comes from Capital Gains and Capital Gains Taxes are less then Income Taxes is why. Why doens't Warren Buffet actually have a Business that he Collects an actual Salary from. I mean do you think he is playing the System so he doensnt have too?. He doesn't want the Govt to get more of his money.. And why has he decided to Give all his Monies to Charities. IE . the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.. Why. Yes. thats Correct. So the Govt doesn't get it when he dies. He sure Talks a Mean game. but his Motives dont back it up.. So. Warren Buffet a Democrat.... who wants other Business to pay more Taxes. Doesn't want it to apply to him. and he has found ways to get around Paying more to ............... YES.. Say it with me............ THE GOVERNMENT..............

CALUSA,

You have no idea what you are talking about. Buffet was referring to personal income tax, he has no personal income to speak of. His company is a far different matter, they pay big time taxes.

I would hope that if the Governor has to order the State Police to open fire it's in the right direction. Ruthless violence in American politics must be ruthlessly stamped out by the government........it's in our Constitution.

Does it not bother anyone that this Governor is willing to FIRE 6,000 workers as a BARGANING CHIP to be used against the Dems to get what he wants?

Anyone?

Remember that these 6,000 people have families. They need to eat. They need shelter. They contribute to the WI economy in more ways that many will acknowledge.

Doesn't it seems CALLOUS to anyone other than myself that this man will use the constituents of his OWN STATE to further his ambitions, no matter how nefarious??

A lot of the right-wing fringe is on this blog right now trying to 'spin' this situation. Just look at the comments when it is blatantly obvious that we have a problem in the Governor's mansion in WI. He is painted into a corner and there are no good options available for this Governor.

None.

Now, we get wind that people are being used as pawns in a power struggle (because that is what this is), and we also see chicanery being used to bypass the rules so that the Governor can get what he wants.

This Governor, other than needed a new Chief of Staff to screen his calls, was probably assured by his handlers that this union 'deal' would not be contested, and that this would be a 'cakewalk' to get this signed into law in WI.

They miscalculated.

Now we see a mess in WI. And now we see that when all else fails, they use the PEOPLE of THAT STATE as pawns to bludgeon the Dems who will not cooperate.

You cannot make this stuff up.

So, to the ones that are defending this Governor, go ahead.

You do so at your own peril.

Steve 5000 Buffet actual pays himself a modest salary. Look it up it is public information. The income on capital gains etc goes back to the share holders and not in his pocket. It is a publicly held company.

Yes we need business but NOT corrupt business. We also need someone that represents all the people and is not afraid represent the people not the billionaires that line his pockets. The 1st thing he did when he took office was give the Koch brothers and the other big corporation more fricken tax breaks and made it harder for them to be sued. Lets not forgot that he approved the appointment of his lapdog lawmaker's father to be made head of the state patrol and then exempted his from his budget "repair" bill.

When he in Milwakee County he illegally fired 26 county employees after he faked a 7 million dollar budget crisis.(sound familiar) and then outsourced their jobs to another company Wackenhut who just happens to be an billion dollar corporation who provides security for oil companies and other corporate giants. Wackenhut has also been known for beating protesters at labor rallies for workers' rights and also has ties to the John Birch Society.(anti government just like tea party).

This is about destroying the low and middle class, destroying the unions and anyone in the way of them taking over the governernment in every way so that can make more money. As if 42 billion was not enough. Can I make it any clearer for you!

In his "repair" bill he wants to limit family leave and privatize the state health care, make no-bid sales in which Koch would come in and buy the power plants plus he wants to dismantle the UW system. This is about the POWER plain and simple. This is much bigger than people realize well at until his political suicide today. He will be recalled and I was prepared to go door to door to assure it but I probably won't have to now.

Salt Grass

His 2006 annual salary was about $100,000, which is small compared to senior executive remuneration in comparable companies.^[63] In 2007, and 2008, he earned a total compensation of $175,000, which included a base salary of just $100,000.^[64][65] He lives in the same house in the central Dundee neighborhood of Omaha that he bought in 1958 for $31,500, today valued at around $700,000 (although he also does have a $4 million house in Laguna Beach, California).^[66] In 1989 after having spent nearly 6.7 million dollars of Berkshire's funds on a private jet, Buffett sheepishly named it "The Indefensible". This act was a break from his past condemnation of extravagant purchases by other CEOs and his history of using more public transportation.^[67]

^{So. Tell me there Salt Grass. Why does a man who owns a company only pay himself 100k a year. Why is it he pays himself such a small Salary. he has pesonal investments that pay him EXTREME amounts of money so he can pay for all of his expensive houses and toyes.. The fact is. He could Afford to pay Himeself alot more out of his business. but doens't . TO KEEP THE AMOUNT OF TAXES HE GIVES TO THE GOVT DOWN.}

Here's the 2 part conversation

I think he should resign. He talks about ratcheting up threats and thoughts of using trouble makers to stir things up.

Something everyone should listen to if this is true.

Steve - if the amount that is to be fired is 1,500 or 6,000, that's too many people losing their jobs.

Period.

I see that you are OK with people losing their jobs through no fault of their own.

OK. Fair Enough.

However, the thrust of my post is that this Governor is USING PEOPLE'S LIVES as BARGAINING CHIPS to get what he wants.

I know you cannot defend that, so you resort to the old standard of 'they don't deserve the money anyway'. I sincerely hope that you meet one of these people who will lose their job and tell them to their face that they 'cost too much - too bad, so sad'. I am sure their foot will be up your butt so far that you and your grandchildren will be tasting sneaker for a month.

We are ALL Americans here, Steve. I guess as long as you got yours, to hell with everyone else, right?

Typical.

www.businessweek.com/1999/99_27/b3636001.htm

The rest of the story

I guess we aren't allowed to point out that Walker LIED yesterday when he claimed he wasn't a Union Buster? Of course, most of us KNEW that; but he certainly opened his mouth and removed all doubt today, didn't he?

Peitro,

Your Right. Govt is to big. and we can't afford it anymore. Just like in the real World when a business cant afford to pay people anymore. they gotta be Laid off. You see I understand this terrible part of jobs.. Your solution is to take other peoples Money to pay for things we cant afford. I dont want to steal from Peter to pay Paul.................. I want to get rid of Paul.......... because if i keep paying him. it could make the whole Business Fail............. thats Responsible leadership.

Democrats just like Debt. and as long as its not coming out of their Pockets. it doesn't matter..

Salt Grass,

The Man coudn't pay his Property Taxes on 100k a year........... your kidding yourself. he is clearly underpaying himself so as not to have to give more money to the Govt.. We understand that you will Defend this because he is a Democrat. but those of us that actually understand how business works. Know exactly what he is doing..

"Does it not bother anyone that this Governor is willing to FIRE 6,000 workers as a BARGANING CHIP to be used against the Dems to get what he wants?"

No, it bothers me that these Democrats are willing to fire 6,000 workers as a bargaining chip to keep collective bargaining rights just for benefits (remember salary bargaining isn't even in this bill, the whole thing is over benefits only EXCEEDING standard private sector inflation levels). That really bothers me, the fact that these people are willing to force Walker to lay off what will probably amount to around one to two thousand people just to grant unions an uneven playing field. It's one of the most disgusting things I've seen these Democrats do in a long time, let him fire them only to blame him for their actions and gain more votes from their union head buddies. If they manage to get paid for their little lie-to-get-the-votes vacation there will be a lot of angry people around the nation.

Your Right. Govt is to big. and we can't afford it anymore. Just like in the real World when a business cant afford to pay people anymore. they gotta be Laid off. You see I understand this terrible part of jobs.. Your solution is to take other peoples Money to pay for things we cant afford. I dont want to steal from Peter to pay Paul.................. I want to get rid of Paul.......... because if i keep paying him. it could make the whole Business Fail............. thats Responsible leadership.

I see, Steve. So let me get this straight -

We cannot afford 'Government', as you put it, but we CAN afford to REBUILD IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN.

I see, Steve.

We cannot afford it, you say, but we can afford to spend $15 BILLION A MONTH blowing up other countries in TWO wars.

I get what you are saying, Steve.

We can't afford it, you say, but we are STILL giving BILLION dollar subsidies to Big OIL and Corporate Farms, some of whom pay NO TAXES.

Yeah, Steve, we cannot afford that, can we?

But when you see the average worker making just enough to get by in a union, we CANNOT AFFORD IT because some yahoo GOP/TPer says so?

Your argument is ridiculous, Steve.

Typical.

No, it bothers me that these Democrats are willing to fire 6,000 workers as a bargaining chip to keep collective bargaining rights just for benefits (remember salary bargaining isn't even in this bill, the whole thing is over benefits only EXCEEDING standard private sector inflation levels). That really bothers me, the fact that these people are willing to force Walker to lay off what will probably amount to around one to two thousand people just to grant unions an uneven playing field. It's one of the most disgusting things I've seen these Democrats do in a long time, let him fire them only to blame him for their actions and gain more votes from their union head buddies. If they manage to get paid for their little lie-to-get-the-votes vacation there will be a lot of angry people around the nation.

Wait a minute. How are the Democrats going to fire ANYBODY, Beckermand?

It was the GOVERNOR - you know, that Republican guy that has a very SERIOUS political problem - that was threatening to lay off 6,000 workers.

The Democrats have no power to lay anyone off.

So where do you get your reasoning?

Glenn Beck, perhaps?

"We can't afford it, you say, but we are STILL giving BILLION dollar subsidies to Big OIL and Corporate Farms, some of whom pay NO TAXES."

Ahhh the big lie. To correct this often-repeated but just as often debunked claim, "big oil" actually currently pays world record corporate taxation levels. What they do not pay is INCOME tax. How did no income tax get to be called paying no taxes? Well, small businesses are double-taxed, whether it be single-owner or partnership enterprises. They are required to report the money they make both as income AND revenue, and therefore pay taxes for the exact same thing twice. Corporations, since they aren't owned by individuals, have no income. The money made does not transfer straight to one or a small handful of individual accounts, but rather into a revenue account used to sustain the business, pay salaries, costs, etc. Since they have no income to record, they only pay the revenue as a tax on the revenue, not a double tax including income.

Democrats used the fact that they only pay a single time (with dozens of other taxes of course, this is only referring to the revenue directly) to start by making the claim that not being taxed for the same thing twice is magically a "tax loophole." Well bloggers and media outlets and other deliberate misleaders ran with this until it grew into the claim that they "pay not taxes." Unfortunately for these people, this is entirely false, as corporations in the US currently pay the largest tax rate ever seen in the history of the US, with a corporate tax rate at 35% for just this one tax that's the single highest on the planet (second highest is barely above 14% and the world average doesn't even reach 5%, explaining a large share of the forced billion-dollar-costs outsourcing seen in recent years.

Hate big business, hate the wealthy, you're entitled to gripe about whomever you want, but to claim that they pay no taxes when the reality is that it's never been higher is just a bit ridiculous. If you have to insult the very reason we even have jobs, at least find a legitimate reason to do so.

Hey Steve,

It is because Obama is democratic not a dictator. Your racist comment speaks volumes.

CZ,

I am not White.. i can't be Racist................. We understand that you only Wish to Celebrate the Black Part of Obama. but i realize that he is Half white too..............

The right wingers are missing the whole story. Public employees in Wisconsin are paid 4 to 7 percent less than their private sector counter parts, including benefits. We knew that we would have to pay more toward pension benefits and health insurance whether Walker or Barrett was elected. This is about union busting, a major war being waged on the middle and lower classes.

There are 5 states that do not have collective bargaining. All 5 rank lowest in SAT scores for their students. This is a race to the bottom.

Manfred...

Yawn. if Students Rank low in Sat Scores it Reflects upon the TEACHERS . and since The US as a Whole Rank Lower then MANY other nations. when it comes to Science Math and Reading Skills. that too is a Reflection on the TEACHERS......... who dont want to learn to Teach better. but want to be PAID more for doing worse....

Um, why are you all arguing over oil company profits, Warren Buffet, Obama and the wars in Iraq and Afganistan? Off topic much? The point of the article is the governor apparently thought he was talking to Koch, and happy to accept a reward of "a good time" in California for doing what Koch wants. It sounded like they have had that conversation before. Corruption, pure and simple.

Where to start beckermand....

1. Corporations don't pay taxes on their revenue, only on net income. Any business expenses are deducted from revenue before the 35% tax rate is applied. An S-Corp (mostly small business) pay their taxes through the owner's income tax schedule so they actually do pay the same income tax rates as individuals. It is up to the owners to decide if they would rather incorporate or form an S-Corp.

2. For corporations, the 35% tax rate is only a nominal (stated) rate and does not represent the actual tax burdens. Economists and other educated people always use effective tax rates, usually stated as a percent of the country's total GDP. The most recent data shows that corporate taxes about 1.8% in the United States which ranks as the 3rd lowest among the 34 OECD countries. The weighted average is 3.5% so the US is actually about 50% lower than that.

http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=REV Table 1200 Corporate

I could just go on and on with the factual and logical errors in your post but I don't have the time. Suffice to say that you are in no position to be lecturing other people on their relative knowledge.

Jeff, you missed the point. It wasn't important why he fired the controllers, the fact is that it was the beginning of the fall of Communism in the Soviet Union.

Why is it that everyone wants to re-write President Reagan's history. The firing of the controllers had nothing to do with the fall of communism in the USSR. Reagan started and maintained a very costly arms race, which they had to keep up; along with that, they got themselves into a 10 year war to control the politics of Afghanistan, which they lost. It bankrupted the Soviet Union and created food shortages across their nation. Reagan helped it along, folks, but the arrogant Soviets did themselves in. Read a little history....PLEASE!

Steve how dare you or anyone decide how a union operates if you don't want to be part of one? The reason I'm working towards my masters degree after get my bachelors is so I can join a union. You don't want to be part of one fine. Don't spoil it for the rest of us who are, or want to be, union members. If I had to choose, I would rather see the GOP go away permanently, then unions.

Uh, Steve, police officers, EMTs and firemen are GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES. So, you don't need them? Then don't call when you're having that heart attack or your house catches on fire. Oh yeah, that's right, you won't be able to call them because they will all be gone. Good luck with that bucket buddy.

ONce a Buckeye. .

I want to get rid of the Bad ones........ soemthing Unions wont do. Whats your point..

Steve ANYONE can be a racist. Being white is not a prerequisite.

Steve,

Where to begin? Do not businesses use government services? Police and fire protection? Patent and copyright enforcement? Public schools to teach their future employees? Public schools to teach their own children? Parks, Museums, and Theaters to make their lives worth living? Paved roads to move their goods and employees? Your world view may not embrace these things, but big business looks at these factors for any production site. After all, one of those managers may have live where their plant or store is located. And these things make sense for business. Contrary to some views, slaves make really poor employees. They don't work as hard, and are easily disrupted since they have no reward for doing better. Free workers, who can decide where they work and for how much, have an investment in that job. Further, they can also participate in the economy, forming a customer base for other businesses. Maybe even your business, Steve.

I strongly sense that Gov. Walker will lay-off all 6000 employees regardless of this vote. He has already given a timeline with an extremely short lead, which means he already has a list. Merely reducing benefits or transferring some benefit costs does not make the kind of budget balancing cuts that eliminating 6000 benefits AND salaries does.

I find the power-plant clause highly suspicious. While this could be explained as a means of raising quick cash or escaping an onerous burden, usually sales of such assets require open, public bidding and negotiation. Not Iraq war blind contracts or TARP I cash giveaway clauses.

Hey Steve, You know nothing about teaching or teachers. The problems of society all end up in the classroom, and by the way, our family insurance plan costs $625.00 a month. How much is yours???

So I guess what some of you really believe is that democracy is great as long as it goes you're way. When it doesn't your okay looking to an authoritarian regime to enforce your will.

Listen, if you work in a non-right-to-work state, where you're forced to join a union as a condition of employment you can still get rid of that union. The process will vary slightly from state to state, but in general you need to collect a certain percentage of signatures from your co-workers and submit it to your states labor relations board. They will then schedule a vote to determine whether the Union will be allowed to remain certified as the employees representative. It is that same DEMOCRATIC process that that so many of you on the right hold so high until it works against you. Then your argument becomes " I shouldn't have to if I don't want to."

Most of you also appear to have no idea what collective bargaining really is. It is bargaining that is done collectively as opposed to each individual having to go in and make their individual case. Can you imagine every public employee having to go in to HR to work out pay raises, promotions and benefits. It will never happen. Instead the powers that be will dictate how it's going to be with no recourse or input from the employees. You also should realize that collective bargaining is about more than just wages and benefits. It gives groups such as teachers the opportunity to have a say in things as basic as class sizes. But then I guess that's what it will take to satisfy some of you - class size of 70 students taught by people making minimum wage.

Oops forgot - you want to abolish the minimum wage too.

I'm still trying to understand the correllation between the 1981 firing of the air traffic controllers and the fall of communism???!!! What the hell is Gov. Scott Walker talking about! The only thing that the firing of the air traffic controllers initiated was the beginning of the destruction of the middle class. People are forgetting things like Voodoo economics, Reaganomics, and the greatest Trickle Down Theory. The poor became poorer, the middle class stayed stagnant, and the rich became richer. Way to go Ronnie! So much for Scott Walker becoming the next Reagan.....

Mydickcheney...

It's nice to know that there are still a few of us left that don't yearn for the good ol' Reagan years. The federal government expanded under Reagan more than any modern president until good ol' GW came along. Trickle Down Voodoo Economics, which the Republicans still hold in god-like esteem, screwed this country up and polarized its citizens. And Republicans to this day, venerate this joke of a president like no other. I must be missing something. Oh... did I mention that he RAISED TAXES?

To Steve 505729

You were talking about Warren Buffet only drawing a modest salary so he wouldn't have to pay more taxes on his salary. If that was the case why did Warren Buffet and at least 40 other billionaires and millionaires sgn a paper asking Congress not to extend their tax cuts that they got under Bush. Buffet said " I have done very well over the last few years and now it is my time to pay more taxes. It is not right that I only pay 3% of my TAXABLE income on taxes while my secretary has to pay 7% on her taxable income on taxes." As usual the Republicans didn't listen to the people that really have the money and blackmailed the Democrats and the President to pass the tax extendence for the rich, if it wasn't passed the Republicans were to make sure the unemployment extendence didn't pass. The Republicans didn't care that there would more hungry, homeless and with out medical care children in this country and their parents. One of the main reason the Republicans wanted to extend the tax cuts was because over 256 of them are millionaires. As for what is going on in Wisconsin, it is a correlated attack against the unions because they didn't give the Republicans as much money to campaign as they did the Democrats and the Republicans are H---bent on breaking the unions as punishment.I llive in a state that you don't have to belong to a union to work, but the Republican Governor and his party that unfortunely have the majority in both houses of government are also trying to take way the bargining powers of the teachers unions. I understand the same thing is going on in Ohio and other states that the Republicans have control of and to me this is plan to keep the ordinary people from having a say in any form of government, from the cities to the counties, to the state and finally the government in D. C. If they get away with busting the unions for public employees and teachers, then they will go for changing every law that has been passed for safety in the work place, fair treatment of employees and not allowing there to be child labor. And if the working man gets paid a dollar an hour, he will be considered well paid by the owners of companies and corporations while they take home billions of dollars each year. Has anyone thought along this line, that if the Republicans do bust public employees unions, what the rest of their plan is for the middle class and the working poor. Everytime the rich are given tax cuts that means that the middle class and working poor are paying for the running of this country not the rich like some think they are doing.

Why was the first guy to post a comment about this article someone who didn't even understand the current situation? Someone who had false information and couldn't even post real facts to support his argument.

I just hope that this prank phone call will raise further support for state employees and hopefully force this obviously corrupt governor to compromise with perfectly reasonable individuals and have this issue debated rather than signed into law while everyone was looking the other way. The fact that he wants to pass this bill quickly without debate because it is so controversial shows that his decisions aren't based on the people of Wisonsin, but rather his own personal agenda. When a governor is elected, he supposed to work for all the people in his state, not just those who put him in office, and especially not corporations. That is something Walker fails to understand or care about

@Barbara A.: I live in Ohio and this is not a 'right-to-work' State, so I agree with what you are saying.

Last I saw only roughly 37% of State Employees are members of the Union. I also have two family members who were teachers in the State of Ohio so I know a little of what they went through. State employees do not pay Social Security tax, that is a fact, but they pay the same amount of their paycheck into a program called OPERS. The problem with OPERS is that it does not offer the same benefits as Social Security. When my cousin lost his job as a teacher, because he is legally deaf, but he was not at the 'age of retirement' under OPERS he didn't get the benefits that a 'private sector' employee would under Social Security. Since he was a 'public employee' his entire life and never paid into Social Security, he is not allowed to apply for Social Security Disability either.

People really need to look into everything before they start saying that teachers and other public workers are being overpaid. How can you even compare a Teacher's salary to the 'private sector' when there aren't 'Private Sector' teachers, fire fighters, police officers to compare the wages to?

their significantly above average pay

A recent study completed by economist at the U of WI (ironically enough) indicated that public sector employee salaries when compared against private sector salaries of equivalent job scope, description and education were actually paid as much as 10% less than their private sector counterparts.

It appears top me that this governor is on a power thing...looking to make a big name for himself at the expense of anyone else..this is scary...if he succeeds in this,,,just what else will he go for...that will cost jobs and maybe more ?

CAL USA "Unions cannot give money to politicians without the approval of the members who elect the leadership. Corporations, on the other hand can give unlimited amounts to politicians or causes they support without even consulting the stockholders who own the company."

Thanks for the laugh. An individual union member has about as good a chance of influencing how the 'union leaders' spend his money as an small individual stockholder has in influencing the spending of corporate money - virtually none. And the corporate officers have to stand for election and answer questions on spending every year - at a stockholder's meeting.

PS - Isn't it illegal to secretly tape a phone call without the consent of the parties, or a court order?

Just as a point of historical accuracy and nothing more: Reagan fired the Air Traffic Controllers because he had no choice. The Controllers were striking for two reasons: a) they wanted ATC radars upgraded. The Korean War vintage radars were constantly breaking down and the tubes were becoming almost impossible to find. This had reached the level of a serious safety problem. b) the Controllers wanted better staffing at key airports during peak times. The ATC's were just being overwhelmed by the growth in the "hub" system and staffing was not being increased nearly as fast as the number of flights. The FAA was trying to cope by relaxing involuntary overtime rules. The Controllers contended that this was adding risk by staffing key time periods with Controllers who had already exceeded a reasonable workday and were tired.

The Controllers wanted the staffing increased and the radars upgraded (along with some smaller demands like dedicated communications systems between sectors) immediately. They knew that the money was readily available and set aside in the Airways and Airports Trust Fund.

What they did not know is that the money from the Airways and Airports Trust Fund (along with the Highway and Transportation Trust Fund, the Social Security Trust Fund, and a number of others) had been looted and the money replaced with a worthless IOU. This was the "voodoo economics" that GHW Bush objected to. The "borrowing" from the trust funds was not counted as debt because the "government was borrowing from itself and it all canceled out."

The borrowed funds were spent on the ill-conceived SDI (Star Wars.) About $1.3 TRILLION disappeared into the unaccounted maw of a project which yielded nothing because the basic concept, the nuclear-powered x-ray laser was technically impossible because it violated basic laws of physics. No accounting of this money has ever been given. But it was a secret that Reagan could not afford for the public to really understand. The Air Traffic Controllers were threatening to force him to explain how there could be many billions in a trust fund (collected from fees and ticket taxes) yet no money available for necessary safety upgrades. After the Controllers were replaced, the Reagan administration and later the Clinton administration quietly upgraded the radars and staffing using Reagan-imposed gate and route sales, gate fees, and ticket tax increases.

This was much in keeping with other "creative" accounting, such as passing off the largest increase in the nominal tax rate as a tax cut. Reagan cut Federal income taxes and corporate taxes. The major cuts were for corporations and wealthy individuals. That's true. But at the same time he completely eliminated Revenue Sharing which returned tax money to state and local governments. This forces states and localities to dramatically increase sales and property taxes which hit the poor and middle class hardest. The local tax increases far exceeded the Federal tax cuts. And a huge amount of the tax burden was shifted from corporations and the wealthy to the poor and middle classes.

GHW Bush was right. But in the end, he was faced with a fiat and had no choice but to go along with the charade.

Win or lose Wisconsin the debacle has had a positive effect. Rick Scott, Florida's governor, has backed off from trying the same thing with the public sector unions. The Indiana Governor has also backed off. Perhaps just the fact the GOP tried this will help the democrats in 2012.

Same here in Iowa, Wade, where anti-union legislation that had been a "must have" has now been both softened and moved to the "we'd like to have" category.

Hey Roy, So you're okay with Walker's panting over his lord and master Koch promising him a good time in Cali for his union busting work. Must be you're one of the jestors in the court of Toilet Paper (oops I mean Tea Party) there to serve the Koch brothers.

Yeah, I'm really sure this the first time you thought or felt that....

Why can't you just tell the truth and admit that you've never even considered supporting a conservative politician.

Besides, all politicians are dishonest, regardless of party, because they have to be. An honest politician couldn't survive in today's world.

Kmac:

And Walker's doing Koch's bidding is different from Obammy doing Soros's biding how......????

Spider

It is real simple. You cannot cite one single instance of Soros making a political donation to support a position that will enrich him personally. Whereas EVERY political donation the Koch's make serves to enrich them personally. It is NOT the same. They are NOT morally equivalent.

George Soros uses his wealth to enrich society, not himself. But hey, never let ideology get in the way of reality.

Interesting notion...Reagan fired the air traffic controllers and the Berlin Wall fell? Reagan said "Tear down this wall" and Gorby said, "Sure...what was I thinking?"? Reagan was an actor, he was good at staged moments. Neither of the acts lead to the fall of communism. And, for the record...just like in the 1920s and 30s, unions are not made up of communists. Walker is complaining about out of state folks showing up to mess with Wisconsin politics...uh, and taking money from the Koch brothers is somehow different?? I guess money talks, again.

@Charlie

Yes his shorting of the British pound and triggering the Asian Financial Crisis were all done to enrich those societies. I guess only the "rich" people suffered in those countries?

Maybe you should consider where his wealth comes from. Did he ever build anything? Did he ever bring a new product to market. Isn't he just one of those Wall Street speculators you love to hate? Say what you like about the Koch Brothers but I'll bet they have employed more working/middle class families than George Soros and I'll bet they have destroyed fewer livelihoods of poor people around the world than Soros speculation has. I wouldn't bring George Soros actions into the light you'll find too many facts that you don't like.

Well you may think the Gov. is right, but you should look out because if he wins this battle it's not going to stop there. Soon other unions will fall, then who will be left to fight for the working man when you apply for a job and they start you out on minimum wage. Oh i'm sure you don't mind working a 6 or 7 day work week and shall i say holidays off or vacations forget it. How much money do you make now to pay your rent, car, medical, dental or maybe you think all this will cost at the minimum wage level. So i think you should start lining up some roommates to share the cost of your life style, believe me without some unions you'll need it. Remenber your boss will have you right where he want you eating at Jack N D Box or the other one. So THINK

Before commenting too much, readers should listen to the whole recording.

Pretty damning of the governor.

Conservatives here seem to be determined to talk about ANYTHING besides this phone call.

That says a lot.

Please Insult Me! ~

"That's cute."

Very pithy. I must write that down.

Or did you copyright that? In case you did, you will notice that I put it in quotes AND attributed it to you.

I figured you would want all the credit. And being liberal, I'm more than happy to give it to you.

Please Insult Me!

"Phone call? What phone call?"

Wow. The wit just keeps on flowing.

Spanky - try as you might, you cannot change the subject. We are talking about Gov. Walker and his situation in the State House in WI.

You CANNOT defend what is going on there so you resort to deflection about President Obama.

Typical.

One thing that is well known in Union circles and for me from a personal note---Policcio --the leader of the air traffic controllers backed Reagan and George Bush met with him and told him that to get the changes that he sought he might have to go on strike and Reagan had given him tacit approval of such a move. Another point---the controllers were not after more money--they wanted changes made in air safety --they had proposed a system of wheel and spoke---large aircraft going to large airports and smaller aircraft to smaller airports---I remember the mid air over New York when in a snow storm two passenger liners collided in a snow storm killing all on board---this is what the controllers wanted to protect the public from and Bush and Reagan just like Walker lied because they too wanted to break the unions--

Defend? What's to defend - Walker was taped in a supposed conversation. His mistake was not verifying the other end of the line.

What's going on is the unions are getting shellacked. They have conceded to the monetary concessions in the hope they get to hang on. I doubt they will, but we will see. As a taxpayer I hope they do not. But even so, the times are changing in a very negative way for all who are on, or rely on the tit. And that my friend Pietro is a very good thing, because at the end of the day it's still $14 trillion/$1.65 Trillion.

And so I "deflect" again - what has Obama done to correct the debt? Let's just deal with the debt, or do you not see the states have a little problem in that regard?

And really, Pietro is this all there is today? Nothing else goingon to report? Huh.

No, Spanky - what is going on is that people are FINALLY realising what they voted for and the picture is not pretty.

You can try and 'deflect' all you like, but the unions are NOT getting shellacked in the manner that YOU think they are. What is happening is that there is more support for unions now than before bceause no one - even if they are not in a union - wants to be treated unfairly when negotiating.

We are seeing a power grab, pure and simple.

We are seeing a Governor that will sacrifice 6,000 og his own constituents' livelyhoods to make an ideaological point.

So what happens after that point is made?

those 6,000 people - and their families - will be forgotten and discarded.

Is this what you REALLY want for America, Spanky?

How can you defend THAT?

And no, this story is important enough. I find it interesting - and amusing - that you are so willing to try and change the subject.

I am not going to let you do that.

"Before commenting too much, readers should listen to the whole recording. Pretty damning of the governor."

Listened to the whole recording, pretty damning for the Democrats, seemed a strong positive for the Governor. The whole time the "sting" guy tried to bait him by talking about how it would benefit them, not mentioning jobs and such, Walker kept going back to saying he was doing it because of the budget and he wanted to save these jobs and it was the "right thing to do."

Then when talking tactics, we got to hear first-hand how when it was mentioned copying the trick the Democrats did when invading Tea Party rallies to make racist calls before they were caught, he flat-out said he wasn't going to send in imposters to cause a scene at any protest. So we got to hear up front, recorded as evidence that the Governor is doing this not as a "Union-Buster" like someone who didn't listen to the tape claimed, but to actually save these jobs the Democrats are willing to sacrifice to appease their big donor union head buddies.

Pietro is right, why change the subject? The people who have listened to the tape should be here talking about what Walker ACTUALLY said. Unfortunately we have people here pretending to have listened to the tape making several wild comments, thus only pretending to be on the topic of the ACTUAL tape. Not that MSNBC is prone to it ever being different. Too many people here repeating lines straight out of a Rachel Maddow or "Hardball" (laugh) pretend political talk show epidose.

beckermand - I did listen to the entire 20 minute conversation and I would say Walker has some explaining to do. I especially liked the part about the baseball bat...

Hey - can you provide more corporate tax knowledge to the people here? You are so awesome at that.

beckermand, boy, are you wrong, after listening to the tapes, and hearing Walker say, "we considered causing a ruckus", and saying he would love to fly out to Cali for some paid for fun in the sun, after his moment, in bringing down the unions, and having secret meetings with his cabint, on ways to lock up the Senator's when they have to come to get their checks, he will be facing ethics charges. Wis. has some of the strongest ethics rules in the country. A former attorney general of Wis. has reviewed his damning remarks, and an investigation is in the works. They may not have to wait a year to recall this paid for buffoon, he may be impeached. You support an unethical, Koch shill, bought and paid for. Shame on you and your Faux News distorted views. Ethics, an unknown idea on the TP/Repub. side. The truth will come out.

beckermand's hoping for a paid trip to Cali with his hero Walker but guess what beckermand you don't count. You are just a little thing that Walker and Koch laugh about all the way to the bank. You just keep dreaming maybe you can go on Beck's show and hold his chalk for him.

Fleeing to Ill. is ironic, no?

Ill. has a tad more debt problems that Wisconsin, or any other state in the area. Maybe they can get budget tips?

Spanked Y : what are you afraid of? you have spewed four or five times, off subject; can you say something about the subject ? walker is conspiring to break the Unions for political gain period, and He lied about the reasons, this was A planned political movement!!!

When He was offered A good time in CA. that could implicate He is willing to take A bribe, is that part of his job description???

So Spanky, how long have you been collecting unemployment? Maybe you can get the KOCK brothers to Hire you as their Dog walker.

FAKE KOCH: Well, I'll tell ya what, Scott. Once you crush these bastards, I'll fly ya out to Cali and really show you a good time.

WALKER: Alright. That would be outstanding. Thanks for all the support and helping us move the cause forward.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/02/governor_walkers_office_confir.html#comments

Gosh Dale are you trying to be cute or do you not understand what this is about? You get that the issue is influence, as in the Koch control and or influence Walker.

Also - do you think attending a personal meeting with the Koch brothers is a bribe? Think it through. I wonder could we apply that definition to anyone else, other politicians? I bet we could.

Not unemployment [yet] for me UNoI, how about you? You good there little buddy?

Yes, John B., that seems to be the standing order for the dittohead response on this story: "Never, under any circumstances, allow someone else to frame the discussion. ALWAYS divert, divert, divert to one of our talking points, listed below for your convenience."

There have been, quite literally, DAYS worth of this pathetic excuse for discussion going on right here.

Oh, and "Collapse-rating" abuse must be at an all time high, as well. I have yet to find a "community" collapsed comment that had anything offensive in it, unless one happened to be a dittohead; then, of course, anything remotely like a fact is offensive.

What should be next is the rational reasonable people of America rising up like they are doing in the middle east and taking down the ultra rich, the corporations and their right wing lackeys. It will come in time. It will come.

Your pay and benefits, just wait and see

Rational people do not take part in such poor behavior. Rational people do not come up with such idiotic statements or attempt to connect two completely different situations. You really need to see one of those doctors and get a real sick note.

Tony;

I think you miss the point, teachers are advocating for and about the environment that they teach in and they don't want to loose that. You know the same environment that all the students go to school in. So if they need to have a voice in class size, allotted time to council students, time to plan curriculum and to grade and test, don't you think those things have a positive impact on the students?

I think it is clear that they care about the students and about effective teaching. Two of the teachers I work with through Boy Scouts are always spending time to read papers and grade tests. They have to lug there work around with them to find the time in the day to get it all done. I know these people and their values, they are decent and hard working Middle Class folks who want to do a as good a job as they can.

Walk a mile in their shoes before you start trying to espouse what is important to them.

recall of walker

Maybe the return of rational government, once that bribe-soliciting, thug-monger Walker resigns in disgrace.

Wouldn't anyone like to have heard the REAL conversation between Walker and the Koch brothers that occurred after the fake conversation was revealed?

Does the phrase "twisting slowly in the wind" ring any bells?

Come to think of it, isn't this just about the anniversary of the Saturday Night Massacre?

Well, one thing is for sure ... Walker will be massacred this Saturday night on NBC. Right after your local news.

need to listen to the entire tape, rather than reading what the MSNBC writer excerpts and bends. This crook form the liberal left, impostor and backer of Obama and "organizing for America" thugs tell you a lot about the problems that state government has with the Unions, the falsification of information, the use of bogus sick slips, the mandatory taking of children from class to the organizer rallies, and many other actions. The Left is socialistic, illegal, and creates massive costs for states and local governments to attempt to cover in tax increases, levies, fees, cut back in services, but never cut backs in wages or benefits in the cause of the unfavorable conditions.

RAW, you seem angry? Being 'punked' sucks, doesn't it? Too bad this probably won't result in the Federal Government defunding Walker and forcing him into bankruptcy,...only to LATER find out the Police were involved and felt your organization acted appropriately. Say like ACORN in San Diego?

And can you imagine how Shirley Sherrod felt? Man, that was quite the hatchet job. And you know what, I think it should call into question any future work Mr. Murphy might do, don't you?

Which is why when I see Andrew Breitbart's name associated with crap from any protest,...I'm a bit skeptical.

So, yeah, I guess we know how you feel. But you gotta' admit, the irony is a tad bit delicious, no?

tad bit delicious, no?

Exquisitely 'delicious' if you ask me... ;o)

Can you pass the popcorn to Rick, Clara?

Yes, Tony and we are all commies now according to our governor! What poor excuses for human beings you appear to be! No wonder you can agree with our governor. I've worked 43 years as a teacher and I love it. Sure the pay isn't the greatest after getting two degrees and 28 credit beyond. I've worked to get smaller class size than the 33 I had when I started, I've worked to get a 30 minute lunch break, I've worked to get a St. Hall of less than 100 kids so they could learn better, I've worked to have my principal have a reason for me doing something rather than being threatened into doing it and to get paid for coaching rather than just being told I was going to do it! You have no idea of what you are talking about!! I'll be "D---ed" if I will give this up. and at the same time loving teaching, but hating this "B"

AM: Does the phrase "twisting slowly in the wind" ring any bells

Sure does. It's what those nomadic Democrats are doing while they're cooling their heels in Illinois.

AM: Walker will be massacred this Saturday night on NBC.

There's your problem. Most people get their news from a reputable sources. You get yours from comedy skits. More on your level? They do Keep It Simple (Stupid).

JA,

I get mine from having been in Madison and listening to the assembly. I tried to get into the Senate, but they sort of didn't want to have us hear what they were saying without the democrats. I bet your source is FOX and its LOL "Fair and Balanced" coverage? Today FOX did air some of the prank call to Walker, but of course, they let out the good stuff! Walker shows such great leaderships skills by talking about putting trouble makers in the crowd to stir up things, but then said, "It might make people want me to settle this!" Then to take out a picture of Ronald Reagan at his home after the Packer Super Bowl win and compare himself to Ronnie. He's delusional!

Why would he include in his Bill a paragraph to sell Wisconsin power plats without bids? Sell to the Koch Brothers? How about selling to someone else in the corporate world to make a big profit? Why is he giving his budget speech at Vita Corporation rather than in the Capitol like ever other governor in Wisconsin history? Why, because he bows to big business, big corporations, big oil, big insurance and big Koch Brothers. Wait till his budget is finally announced after two delays already. He will probably see lots more unrest ahead. governors are to unite not divide!

JA (Does that stand for Jack A-s) Since you had to get in the insult about news sources and keeping it simple I'd like to put up my BA, MA and 28 credits beyond against whatever you have or will make up.

Hey, Tony, is the republican idea to say "NO" to everything proposed by the Democrats and threaten to shut the government down, a rational idea?

At this point Gov. Walker and the WI Republicans remind me of when I had toddlers. Anyone who's ever raised kids through the "terrible twos" will recognize this conversation;

What do you want for lunch?

NO!

Do you want hot dogs or peanut butter and jelly?

NO!

OK, if you don't want to choose I'll choose for you.

McDonalds!

That wasn't one of your choices...

Not sure what in the above paints him as a crook? A bit dramatic, and certainly misreading the relationship between air traffic controllers and Communism, but nothing here seems illegal to me.

Get a job tt.

We always hear a cry for transparency in government. Well, Adolph Walker is about as transparent of an evil crook that we have seen in many a moon.

He's going to preserve freedom by taking away the rights of the American worker. Oh well, then, okay, sounds good to me. lol

Almost as transparent as the little man occupying the prez office! Notice occupy because there sure isn't any work being done for our dreary odumbo economy there!

Man, I'm so tired of hearing people complain about this. Unions served their purpose at one time and still do in limited roles. But the collective mindset of the country has changed so much that in most cases they are not necessary. Would an employer trying to get workers to work overtime without paying an overtime wage, or some other violation of worker's rights, really be able to get by with that in today's internet-ready world? With everyone always willing to pounce on any story and run it into the ground? And even if they do help, the thought that taking them away is somehow equivalent to taking away everyone's rights, Nazi Holocaust, etc etc . . . people need to get a grip on history.

The gravy train is empty. Let the crying begin. Looks like it already has for the most part.

Funny that people are complaining at the pennies that teachers make, compared to the millions that corporations get. C'mon people. Stand up for the working class!

Act2 - what kind of jackass chief of staff would let this kind of call go through to his boss with vetting it first?? Especially when his boss is painted into a political corner?

That kinda answers the question - doesn't it?

Now that Gov. Walker has committed political hari-kari, it will be a matter of time before we have to go retrieve the body. You can bet that the Koch Brothers and their supporters are backpedaling from this guy as fast as they can right now.

Uh ... wrong. The teachers went back to work. You really don't bother much with the details, do you?

I'm sorry your WI hero was outted as a douche.

Hey Act - did you have the same reaction when ACORN and Planned Parenthood were set up on a ridiculous sting op? Probably not. You sound about as childish as the 'jackass' you're railing against, and careful of that wedgie you're getting, you're gonna cut yourself in half!

The Koch Brothers will make "Millions" from this Governors "No Bid Contract Law". How can the good people of Wisconsin allow this? That's outright theft of your Tax Dollars.

At this rate, he will be much less than a "One Term Governor".

Yes, the 'no bid contract' provision is where the Kochs will REALLY get a return on their investment.

You have any actual evidence for that slander? No.

With this article, it looks like MSNBC has thrown a fresh dog turd to the ravenous left. I am leaving now before I get some splattered on me from their eating frenzy. Have fun and have no fear, they are probably writing another no news article on sarah!

the people want to see the democratic process continue -- the gov. is acting like hitler or any other dictator. "bargaining rights" ha! if we had concentration camps walker wold have every protestor thrown into one.

Uh, the Minority in Congress was pulling everything they could to delay everything as long as possible, even debate on anything.

Now that some Dems have chosen to try to delay legislation, the dittoheads think it's just awful!

Oh, and, BTW, the quorum requirements are in the Wisconsin constitution. There is no filibuster in the US constitution, it's only in arbitrary Senate Rules. Rules which earlier occupants of the Senate never anticipated would be used on the smallest procedural matters, let alone with the frequency the Repubs have used them the past couple of years.

So, one act has a basis in the state's constitution, but the Repubs are decrying it; the other is a gentlemen's agreement in the Senate, not a constitutional one, and the Repubs are just fine with that one.

Yeah, there's some hypocrisy here, all right.

Kelley, if this is what THE PEOPLE want, then why the week long protests?

Shh, those are people who dont count.

Yeah, one solution? the guy wanted to count bullets for them...

Raygun had a little Alzheimer's didn't he? Just sayin.... Could explain Walker's poorly thought out actions and delusions of grandeur...

Including using Grecian Formula.

Reagan's the only popular recent president they have to talk about; Bush 41 "read my lips" was doomed by Reagan's administrative policies; Bush 43, although a nice person, was the epitamy of the Peter Principle . Truth is, Ronald Reagan would not survive the GOP primary today--he isn't conservative enough. After drastically cutting taxes, he raised them nearly every year except not on the rich, just the rest of us. Reagan could not win dog catcher in today's Tea Party version of the GOP. Oddly enough, it was Reagan who started dragging the party to the right and with each passing year, it is now the party of extremist right-wing ideology, the party of greed and big business greed and they have convinced the party faithful that being far right extremists is good.

The thought that came to my mind when I saw this, Jody, was "not ready for prime time"---the governor doesn't even screen calls? Wasn't Sarah Palin similarly punked during the 08 campaign?

The more I think about this I wonder would one of the Koch Brothers talk directly to a hired peon. I think they would just get another peon to talk to him. He is not high enough on the social economic scale to have directly contact with a Koch.

Having listened to most of this tape, the thing that struck me wasn't even so much WHAT Governor Walker said as it was how MUCH he said, with barely an occasional prompt from the "David Koch" person. It doesn't sound anything at all like a normal conversation - the impersonator says a few vague words, then Walker goes on and on in great detail about the situation and how he's handling it, without ever asking any questions of his own or ever seeming to notice that the person on the other end isn't really saying much himself. I'd almost like to hope that we're going to find out that since this was all a prank, the tape was also very creatively edited, because the alternative - that the Governor was that completely oblivious - is even scarier than who he was supposedly talking to.

Steeler Fan - Yes, Palin was "punked", I think by some Canadian pretending to be Nicholas Sarcozy. I'd have expected that of her. While I totally disagree with what Governor Walker is doing, I'd at least have given him credit for being a little smarter than her.

This whole story is just really weird!

EXACTLY, Salt Grass

The hubris to believe that THE power brokers would deign to bring you in at the penthouse level is what I find SO delish.

When will the wanna' be players being played REALIZE that the TRUE POWER BROKERS are USING them? Sno Cone Barbie still hasn't figured it out, and now this fool thinks he's in like Flynn. It is cracking me up.

Joanne, not to defend the barbie; but she DID eventually graduate from college,...Walker didn't. Not that I think that is the most important thing, but it 'something' more than Walker. These Tea Party folks aren't the best and brightest; and I am sure the Kochs could care less. They are all sacrificial to their goals.

They ALL think they'll be allowed in the house of power, Clara...they're like courtiers, bowing and scraping before their Majesties.

What gets me is how much they think that emulating Ronald Regan makes them a hero. Regan was more pragmatic than dogmatic and yes he did raise taxes. He eliminated many deductions and the social security tax was increased under his watch. If you know in like flint, then you know what it was like under Regan. He reigned over the last big recession and the job market did not turn around until after George the 1^st was out of office. The republicans have gone on the warpath against working Americans and will not stop until wages are depressed enough to be competitive with third world nations. There answer to creating jobs in America is not being creative and innovative, but to beat down labor until our wages are next to nothing. When enough of us are out of work with no income and no unemployment, then they think we will take any job at any pay. The Republicans see the unions as communes and think by destroying unions they are fighting against communist.

Is this grounds for recall?

And to think of all the lives this is effecting, and the money its costing, right in the middle of A recovery, is this grounds for recall?

WAS that a hint thanks A million???

Dale

No I think not!

Beverly

Republicans were not trying to hold Democrats pay. They passed a measure saying Any Legislator that is absent for more than two days, without reason can no longer have their check direct deposited. Said legislator would have to pick their check up from the presiding member of their chamber. It was an effort to bring the Democrats back to the senate where they belong to debate and vote on the issue at hand.

There was nothing damning or truly embarrassing in the taped call. What Walker said is no different than what he has been saying publicly all along. The alleged journalist should be ashamed for his partisan subterfuge, his actions do not speak of impartial journalism, but of a witch hunt to take down an opposing view point. Walker is right this legislation will change history, not only for Wisconsin but for much of the US as well. It is the first act in the restriction of unfunded debt, and irresponsible behavior by politicians and Unions alike. Unions don't really care whether the funding is there or not to pay for the increases they demand, they only care that they win. Tell me who the winner will be when unions finally bring down the nation because it will simply be to expensive to operate anything, business, government, etc. The teachers union is one of the most powerful unions in the nation yet our schools suck! Teachers with tenure are almost untouchable even if they can't find ways for their students to learn. Do they really deserve it? State employees are more highly compensated than their private sector counterparts, not in take home pay but in pension, health benefits, vacation, and personal time. It is time that they come to terms that the free ride is over and that for at least the present, they need to step up just like everyone else does.

Well said, Jcar. You hit all the right spots -- showing how Walker lied and plans more lies and deception. All over the Nation -- and even World-wide -- this is a huge attempt to bust the Unions - not only in Wisconsin but in many other States as well. Democracy is sliding backward when bargaining RIGHTS are refused to anyone, any organization, any Political Party, any Leaders of Countries at War. I salute all the brave people who protest their rights being taken away from them. I am proud of the Democrats who fled -- a last resort to stop the process of being "trod upon" by the Corporate powers, who fund the Lobbiests who influence the Congressional Republicans.

Jcar, great sifting to find the high (low) points. Hard to believe Walker could be so easily fooled and not once question the rather vague conversation and prompting of the faux Koch guy.

Walker spoke to the press a bit ago, he's not backing down and still trying to spin the union stuff his way. But with every statement, it is apparent he's feeling the heat.

Recall Gov Walker ASAP

I suppose that it was ethical for democrats to craft and pass a tax increase bill in less than 48 hours just prior to losing control of both the state houses and the governors office! I suppose it is ethical for the senate democrats to flee to Illinois instead of doing their job and forcing debate like the house democrats did. What is happening is the reversal of spend and tax policy that has put Wisconsin and many other states under great financial strain. Walker and Republicans were elected to bring things back under control, if they succeed then they will remain in their offices beyond the next election. If they don't then they will be voted out. It is a simple as that. They are not in office to make friends, they are there to get our house in order a fact that liberals don't seem to understand. Money doesn't grow on trees, nor does it flow from a tap. It must be earned by everyone but government who taxes(takes it from) those who work for it, or simply prints more. Government has long since forgotten the reality that everyone else in the US faces everyday, when the cupboard is bare and the money gone, you can't continue to spend.

Fred

I suppose you believe that the Democrats that have runaway to Illinois are servicing their districts best interests? What do they think is the solution, bring all legislative business to a halt like the union being on strike? I have always believed that that was the tactic of a coward and a bully. Why don't they counter propose amendments to the legislation, why have they not tried for an agreement to set a time for a vote? They called for debate on the issue instead of trying to bargain, then simply left town. Like the federal government, there are procedural rules they could use to delay a vote even though they are the minority. If anyone should be recalled it is those senators that ran away from their responsibilities instead of staying to debate and win compromise.

Uh, Jamie? If you called the governor you wouldn't get through, but someone says he's David Koch and gets routed straight to the bat phone. Then "David Koch" says all kinds of things with the clear connotation that there's a conspiracy involved and the governor doesn't even find it amiss. It seems natural to discuss all kinds of maneuvering to try to break the union and the Democrats. At the end of the conversation "David Koch" offers to "fly you to Cali and show you a good time." Walker accepts his offer.

This isn't even "appearance of impropriety", it's actual discussion of impropriety.

He can be recalled at one year; but if he commits a crime, ala Rod Blagoivech,...he's outta' there!

Wonder if this call prompts an investigation into Walker's actual ties to the Koch Brothers and their friends; just the suggestion of impropriety here should make journalists, if not the state attorney general's office, dig in the weeds.

Great point, Brad. Sad but true.

and you saw how quickly the repubs were anxious to help those 9/11 first responders in their hour of need - oh yes - the repubs are for the flag and america - but god forbid you get sick in the service of your country - they are all for god america and apple pie as long as they don;t have to pay it back.

If you were Walker, you'd be a gullible idiot.

No. Walker isn't a gullible idiot. The people who voted for him are. It never ceases to amaze me how easy it is for the right wing to convince a large part of the population to vote against their own self interest.

Maybe Walker ought to do what Reagan use to do when asked a question. Hold his hand up to his ear and say what I can't hear you and then walk away.

PaleMedia, Walker has made that statement and said also that he ran on the things that he is doing to get elected, although there is some discussion about whether he revealed all of his intentions.

But, also remember that even though the President used those words it did not stop the right from demeaning him and his agenda, remember!!!!!!

If memory serves me, President Obama used those words in a meeting with House and Senate leaders after President Obama said they could work together to solve the problems, those leaders made demands as if they were the majority--President Obama reminded them, "we won".

so if i have a different opinion that the democrat`s have that means i am a racist if i don`t like what the President is doing i am a racist it has nothing to with race it has to do with the policies of the democrat`s

No it doesn't, billbissette...but if you were to insist that the President is a "Kenyan anti-colonialist" you're probably a racist.

See the difference?

This article doesn't state the half of it. I wonder why the media has been so slow on reporting this, but you can listen for yourself to the entire phone call on youtube.

No. It is NOT where the most fat is. The unions that supported Walker in the election have much more expensive benefit packages and he is exempting those unions from the changes he seeks. And the unions that are affected offered to work out cuts of the size the Governor is asking for.

This is NOT about balancing the budget. In fact this year these changes will save LESS than the recent business tax CUT Governor Walker and the Republicans in our legislator just handed out to business. So he is closing a gap he created. And don't give me the rubbish about business tax cuts creating jobs. That has been debunked many times over. Only ideologues still believe that stuff.

This is about cutting into the political base of the Democratic party to secure a grip on power in the state.

So let review: He created a larger gap than the changes to state employees' rights will close. He exempts unions that supported him from the changes he seeks to impose on other unions. Sure this is about balancing the budget. I've got a bridge to sell you.

It's not mentioned in this article, but this was the part of the call that really made me think Walker was just such a tool:

"....An interesting idea that was brought up to me this morning by my Chief of Staff, we won't do it until tomorrow is putting out an appeal to the democrat leader that I would be willing to sit down to talk to him, the assembly democrat leader, plus the other two republican leaders. Talk, not negotiate, and listen to what they have to say if they will in turn, I'll only do it if all 14 of them come back and sit down in the state assembly, they can recess it to come back and talk to me but they have to come back there. The reason for that is we're verifying it this afternoon, but legally we believe once they've gone into session, they don't physically have to be there. If they actually in session that day and they take a recess, the 19 senate republicans could then go into action and they'd have a quorum because they started out that way. We're double checking that but that would be the only if you heard that I was talking to them, that would be the only reason why we would only do it if they came back to the capitol with all 14 of them...."

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/115601/20110223/ian-murphy-david-koch-scott-walker-conversation-full-text-transcript.htm#ixzz1EqD3iwJs

"Skeezy" and "Underhanded" are a couple of the words that come to mind, aren't they DRK?

Thanks for pointing that out.

@jcar - I can tell you exactly why the mainstream media has been so slow to report on this. The story involves a pair of billionaires. You think the word hasn't gone out to their pals on the boards of every major media outlet to sweep this under the rug as quickly as possible? The prank caller, aided and abetted by a greedy little toad of a Republican governor with delusions of grandeur, pulled the curtain aside and let the world see who the Wizard really is. Now it's damage control time - distract the masses, quick!

Hey, all my conservative American brothers - where's this "Liberal Media" you all keep running off at the mouth about? Why isn't a juicy story like this running on a continuous loop underneath an 80-point headline 24 hours a day on the oh-so-liberal MSNBC? Hmmmm - I wonder if it's because the rich people that own MSNBC don't want us all to dwell on the fact that rich people buy sleazeball politicians like Walker and tell them what to do? Hell, the Koch brothers are already posting ads for power plant workers in WI!