According to this morning’s WSJ, Indiana minority party Dems are considering running away and hiding like the Wisconsin Dems to avoid voting on a similar bill. Here’s a suggestion: Congress should create a “sanctuary” for Dems that want to run away from their legislative responsibilities as elected officials. It should not be a pleasant place to be, providing only the basic necessities of three meals a day, sleeping and showering facilities. I’m thinking that the unused Illinois federal prison Barry wanted to use for the Gitmo detainees would be a perfect place. The runaway’s salaries, less a small stipend for the commissary, would be paid to the federal govt. to offset the costs of running the “sanctuary”. In honor of our Dem President, I would suggest it be called “Barryland” or “Barryworld”.

The Donkey has now been replaced by the Cowardly Lion as the new symbol of the Democratic party.

I think it's so odd the Tea Party claims to cherish our freedoms and declares it's afraid of big government, but looks to deny the freedom of public workers to bargain collectively with the government. Who is authoritarian and who is anti-authoritarian now?

Amy, I think it is odd that the liberal hero, FDR was against public sector unions but dems ignore FDR in this issue. So was FDR authoritarian or anti-authoritarian?

Rocco-2976776

Since when do you care what Franklin Delano Roosevelt thought?

Rocco, that was then, this is now. Times have really changed and so have people. We must respond to the happenings of the moment and time.

Amy. we don't care what FDR thought ...we care about what YOU think of FDR....it SUCKS when you can't have it both ways, doesn't it!

Gingerbread.....you are so correct when you say "that was then, this is now"........there was a time when unions served a purpose....THAT TIME IS OVER......THAT WAS THEN, THIS IS NOW!!!

I am not and have never been a union member. But to say that the time when unions are needed or served a purpose is over is pure ignorance. To pretend that unions are corrupt but corporate bosses and leadership are not is pure ignorance.

Ask yourself why, if unions aren't that important or relevant to the protection of workers, why would Republican politicians nationwide (well-paid lackeys to corporate powers) be risking so much political capital to destroy them? These bills are not just attacking public employee unions, they're just a warm-up to destroying ALL unions.

I am old enough to remember why unions came into being in the first place, not just wages and benefits, but workplace safety, protection against abuses in hiring and firing. To think that business and industry leaders are all benign, sweet, big-hearted lugs is foolish and stupid.

My dad was a white collar accountant for Chrysler back in the day, and he always knew that the improvements the unions won for their workers would come to him as well, because the company would otherwise be afraid of the white collar workers organizing also. Once you propaganda-swallowing fools drop one of the few defensive weapons workers have to hold back employers, you will find out quickly how stupid you were.

Aren't many of you the ones who demand to keep their guns as protection because you don't feel you can trust either the police to protect you or the government not to bother you? If you don't trust government or the police, how can you trust the motives of profit-driven corporations who already get away with everything they can in cutting corners on workplace and environmental safety?

There HAVE to be checks and balances between opposing sides! That's what this country's government is built upon. We don't have democracy in this country anymore because our politicians are being bought. Right now, in state after state, they are shouting about deficits while giving corporations tax breaks, yet trying to pass these bills on budget-cutting justifications. If things are truly so bad, why shouldn't EVERYBODY have to shoulder some of the load? You want public employees to pay more for benefits and pensions? That might pass the smell test better than if you are simultaneously giving away tax money in the form of tax breaks to businesses and dairy farms?

This is ramming philosophical agendas down the throat of everybody. This is not collaborative democracy, this is dictatorship by oligarchy. I think this power play on the part of conservatives will succeed in scaring the independents right back into the Democratic voting columns in 2012.

BlackHillsLaura - "If you don't trust government or the police, how can you trust the motives of profit-driven corporations who already get away with everything they can in cutting corners on workplace and environmental safety?"

Excellent question - I can't wait to hear the answers!

Well said BlackHillsLaura!

Nice to have someone who a) knows history and b) can think for themselves.

My Question,

Why is it that only the Democrats run and hide when getting their butts kicked in the legislative branch?

Seems that the GOP takes their beating in the legislative process--see all the bills pushed through by Pelosi--They might have been the party of "NO", but they didn't run and hide, they took their beating. But then again isn't it the liberals that don't believe in discipline.

"Amy. we don't care what FDR thought ...we care about what YOU think of FDR...."

I love FDR. I think its amusing Right-wingers enjoy quoting a letter he wrote to a postal worker in the 1930's, saying he didn't think public sector unions were a good idea.

What they don't mention is that FDR was worried public sector workers would strike, causing a disruption in government services, and hurting the country as a whole (yeah, Democrats were against government shut downs even then.)

You would think the Tea Party would be FOR unionized workers bargaining with their government bosses over working conditions, benefits and salaries. After all, unions are a natural out growth of the free market ideology, that holds that competition and market place demands lead to healthier economies. Workers shape their employers like consumers shape the market. You'd think you'd want government to answer to it's employees.

Alexis de Toqueville, in his 1814 volume, Democracy in America, wrote that he feared a "tryanny of the majority" would work ill in the United States. However, over the decades a number of political protections were instituted to protect the rights of the minority - including special rules in Congress. Republican Thomas B. Reed, Speaker of the House between 1895 and 1899, went so far as to ruin his brilliant political career when he instituted "Thomas' Rules" that protected the minority party's rights in the House.

Although I do not favor changing filibuster rules in the Senate, for this very reason, of course I also complained rather loudly about the contrary and permanently obstinate position of the Republicans during the 111th Congress. Many from the right wing here are complaining that the Democrats "rammed legislation down the GOP's throat" in that Congress - falsely stating, too, thatRepublicans were never even invited to the party. That is a distortion of the record of the 111th Congress.

The President and Democratic Congressional leaders did reach out to the GOP, then. But the GOP's posture in hard opposition was either to obstruct, or to attempt to make endless delays with a flood of useless amendments to measures - purely for political posturing. It was, in fact, that kind of behavior that helped inflame the disgust of a majority of voters in 2010 - taking it out on the party in power, mostly, as GOP strategists had hoped would happen.

Several critical votes, in the Senate, particularly, passed bills by tiny margins because a few thoughtful Republicans, such as Sen. Olympia Snowe, decided to break the partisan blockade mouonted by the GOP.

Now we see an even more naked use of a majority, without any protection for the rights of the minority, in Wisconsin and Illinois. Unlike President Obama, who for example in the health care debate left the final version of the measure up to the legislature and agreed to many compromises (numerous of which were lifted from GOP proposals), the Wisconsin governor has take an immovable position. First of all, that's really stupid in politics or business negotiations, because there's no way out of an impasse. And impasse there is, with the unions and the state's Democratic lawmakers.

The Democrats, seeing a "tyranny of the majority" unfolding, chose to use the time-honored techniques of "the politics of disaffection." They left town and now the state Senate can't act because it lacks a quorum. The idea took hold in Illinois, whose governor is more amenable to a negotiated settlement and therefor will probably soon work out something to make progress.

The "politics of disaffection" were honed to a sharp edge by Irish nationalists in the early 1900's. It took them a long time, but eventually they wond Home Rule and the Republic of ireland came into existence. Sometimes, this is the only political tool left when a hard-line majority adopts an immovable position. The GOP used it over the past two years - now it's the Democrats' turn.

All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression.
Thomas Jefferson

Ahh Steve, a fillibuster by any other name would smell as sweet,...

Unless of course the tide is moving against your own ideology. In that case, frame them as lazy no good un American unPatriotic scum.

Or did Democrats learn NOTHING from the past decade?

Oh sweet delicious irony, I do love you with my afternoon java!

Yawn Clara...

Just what i would expect from a smelly Liberal. You think people like these Senators should be Paid for doing Nothing. now i need to go blow my nose after sniffing the @!$%# you are Spewing from your mouth..

Amy, Frabnklin Delano Roosevelt - who works in general the right wing here actually drools to overturn while they think there's a chance, at long, long last - eventually came to close terms with the unions. He did that partly thanks to the ifnluence of First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt, and partly because the U.S.came closer to war, union support was essential for his preparedness programs.

There's a long essay that could be written, but insead, let's just all refer these folk who are so interested in him to William E. Leuchtenburg, Franklin Delano Roosevelt and the New Deal. It's a very illuminating book and many who have false impressions of that President will change their minds.

Steve, one of the reasons many of us here usually ignore your tripe is that you are so arrogantly dismissive of others' opinions. Yes, indeed, do tell us all about blowing your nose, or your other bathroom habits. Too much information, indeed. BE careful with that hankie, now, I understand the docs might be able to put both brain cells back in your head if you don't smear them when you blow.

Amy....nothing like the "sick out" they're doing now, huh?

All of the Republican Tea Party people don't seem to understand how state government works. At the state level, they do not have the option of a filibuster, which is available at the federal level. The only alternative is to prevent a quarum from being present. Like a filibuster proof majority, a quarum usually requires a 2/3 majority. If the quarum is not present, no vote taken is valid. This requirement was built into the state constitutions to prevent small minorities from conducting business without most of the members being available to discuss an issue. If the states had the filibuster rule of the US Senate, the members would not have to resort to leaving the state.

This is actually a good thing, it prevents tyrany by the majority. This system is not perfect, but if there is a better one, I don't know of it. The founding fathers did a pretty good job.

Duh101, if I understand you, you find it acceptable for the Democratic legislators to run away as a method of preventing a quarum?

Now how does this process become good for government and the majority of the people in the state again? Just who is actually the tyrant by avoiding the issue?

This is similar to the filibuster in the US Senate, it is a method to slow down the quick passage of what some people might consider, on further review, poorly drafted legislation. It gives all legislators an opportunity to consider the consequences of the legislation. It prevents the rush to quickly pass something just to appease a vocal minority. That was why the Senate used it for the health care act. What could have been passed in a few months took well over a year to "rush" throught the US Congress.

This also gives the governor time to consider whether he wants to be recalled in one year.

John,

You know i dont really Care whether the libbies on this page Respond to my post or not. hell I dont even care if the Conservatives respond. Unlike you i dont come here to have people Stroke my Ego with telling me what an insightful post i made. or how right i am. I dont need it and i dotn care.

You see I come here to give my Opinion. just like everone else. so . Meh. Respond or Dont I dont need you to make me feel better. and there is no way you can make me feel bad. Only i have the power to do that.............. In other words. I dont really Care what you think about my posts. they have no Bearing on my life......... So. Yawn...

Ahh yes, Steve is back to conceding the debate with his typical 'yawn' statement. You can tell he knows when he is wrong or lost the debate, he responds with a 'yawn'. What an ignorant troll.

Oh Matthew, don't be so hard on Steve. It's obvious he couldn't stay awake in class or even while the adults carry on a conversation.

He's probably got narcolepsy or something.

Yawn............. Typical libby retort. Boring as usual.

Matt and Clara. You coudn't pour piss out of a boot if the directions were on the bottom.

for the record it is NOT a similair bill to WI tho the unions are twisting everything to be a major catastrophe. The IN bill was mainly focused on the right to work without paying union dues. Seems like a right given by the Constitution but no the Dems and unions feel you must pay union dues. Bottom line is the unions are not delivery any value and people are not joining. Dues are down and as a group aligned with democrats, they can not meet their entitlements to their existing and retired members - hence they feel every one should pay. Quit simple really... and yes a bunch of cowards.

America:

It is not that plain and simple! The media is not their boss, the media reports the news. In America the voters will eventually hire and fire those who are not doing their job.

You must be a "tea bagger" as you see things in plain and simple terms.

America: I'd point out the obvious, that the media isn't the senators' boss, but I won't really bother.

Trying to explain anything to you is like talking to a brick wall. No, wait, I take it back: It'd be easier talking to a brick wall, because if you hit the wall with enough facts, eventually it will cave in.

Ron and Grand:

You both know exactly what he was saying. Stop attempting to belittle the man.

There actually is a lot of shyt that goes on in politics that is PLAIN AND SIMPLE/BLACK AND WHITE.

This is simple: Republicans are the majority, they voted on something, if you don't like it vote against it......SIMPLE.

I find it amazing that the Democrats are running away from their responsibilities and you call them heros. Republicans debate against the Democrats and vote no and you call them the Party of NO for disagreeing with you. So you would rather RUN AWAY from your responsibilities than fight for your cause. This is why Democrats have the reputation of being weak. Amazing!!!!

Like the Good Deacon John B would say:

Elections has Consequences

A source said Democrats are headed to Illinois, though it was possible some also might go to Kentucky. They need to go to a state with a Democratic governor to avoid being taken into police custody and returned to Indiana.

What a novel strategy to avoid upholding the responsibility afforded them by the people who elected them. If the Governors of Ill and Kentucky are indeed involved, then they too should be remembered during he next election cycle or during a recall.

So if I understand this, it is permissable for any Democratic legislator to run away to a state controlled by a Democratic governor to avoid voting on legislation the Dem doesn't believe in? The heck with the people who elected him/her?

It's MY country and I want it back! They want us to sit down and shut up BUT WONT LET THEM RUN OVER OUR RIGHTS! After all it's the Repugs who want to strip away the rights of hard working men and women. If they wanted to work with us this would not happen. We are fighting back against the tyrants.

Ok everybody it was qute when the guys from wisconson slid down here, but Now the Indiana guys are here as well, come on how enough is enough, go back home and hide out there. Illinois has enough problems with out lawmakers from other states hiding here. our name is bad enough.

GO HOME!!!!!!

I LOVE it!

Any idea how much revenue is being generated from hotel rooms, meals etc?

You're always WELCOME here in the 'Land of Lincoln' Dem's!

As a matter of fact - my home is always open to those seeking 'political asylum' ;o) lol

Stand in solidarity with organized labor!

PS: Jim -- What Larry's trying to say is he wants his country back from the black dude occupying the White House!

I hope they're not billing the taxpayer for the hotel and meals!!

Yes feisty, we know you love cowards. However, I do agree that your state needs the revenue to help pay off the bloated Illinois public sector pensions shortfall of roughly 40 Billion.

When all else fails, pull out the Race Card!!!

Good Afternoon Feisty:

Yep, make room for more legislators. It's called a "field trip" to New Salem, Springfield, Lincoln museum, Lincoln's home.

Tomorrow I'll comment on events as they unfold. My sense is when you are trying to negotiate with recalcitrant Republicans, you just have to back-off until they are ready to compromise. Finding the right bridge to fight at is not so simple. Smart Democrats are not going to walk into an ambush. Oh, and BTW these Democrats are not cowards. They are fighting for the rights of the majority of Hoosiers.

Ha ha Feisty, you think like a Mainer. We put 'Vactionland' on our license plates in hopes the rest of the country gets the hint.

I am so proud to be a Democrat today. We stand for and with the working people, the teachers, firefighters and police. We stand for the unions and against the corporate greedsters who won't be happy till ordinary Americans have the same living standards found in Malasyia.

Muleshoe Jim. You said it.

Shades of baby boomer protests! It's about time the voices of other people are heard; believe it or not, there are people who are not GOPTPers; they've been sitting on the sidelines for too long. Cheers to the Indiana democrats, Illinois welcomes them. Odd, when republicans declare they want their country back and obstruct and deny the majority rule, that's acceptable but when democrats decide their only option is to obstruct by not providing a quorum, that's next to treason. What's good for one side is equally good for the other.

As for the food and meals, I understand there are orders coming from around the world to provide pizza and food to the protesters and money is being raised to help the democrats continue their residence in an undisclosed location.

There are about a dozen federal republican legislators camping out in Congress, Washington DC--declaring it their home away from home. Who's subsidizing their electric, water and heat plus who's paying for their cots, whose washing the bedding? My bet is we taxpayers are.

Lynchmob, "When all else fails, pull out th Race Card!!!". No, when all else fails, tell the truth! And the truth, as we all know, hurts!!!!!! No one has taken "this country" or anything else away. That rhetoric is just another excuse and another way to say that they don't like and never will like the President, plain and simple.

Talk about cowards, the people that continue to say this are the biggest cowards because they don't have the nerve to say how they truly feel.

Hi Feisty,

Way to go. You make us Progressives proud.

Hi Feisty, Just wondering if your place is getting crowded?

Feisty,

I see you still don't care who is paying for those democrats as long as it serves your purpose. That IS the typical progressive/socialist/marxist/maoist/communist way.

you see though......MOST Americans DO.....I can't wait to see how it serves your progressive cause in 2012!

Way to go. You make us Progressives proud

*blushes* Thanks for the kind words Job1 - glad to see you decided to stick around and play in the mudpit! ;o)

@ lisa - Nahhhh - huge house and I'm an empty nester to boot! lol

Lynchmob: "When all else fails, pull out the Race Card!!!"

This from someone who's screen name is......Lynchmob.

Larry2767404 : "Now we have a government trying to take our rights away from us".

I agree, Larry! Oh, wait.....you mean you WEREN'T talking about state governments trying to take away worker's rights to collective bargaining???

And sorry, but it's not your country to take or mine to give. It belongs to ALL of us.

All else has failed....that is why they have to RUN & HIDE...........how many times can you say

FREELOADING COWARDS!!!! Typical progressives, live off the backs of the real Americans.

Rocco....she could care less about Illinois having to pay for the $40 BILLION public sector pension shortfall, because they will just raise taxes on the private sector Americans to pay for it

"Way to go. You make us Progressives proud." and Weak

You forgot Weak..............

Amy, why would corporations want everyone to be broke? If everyone is broke, they cannot afford to buy the products of the corporations. Businesses do better when everyone prospers.

Ron, in your mind the only acceptable compromise by a republican is if they agree to the democrats proposal. Democrats do not need to give any ground for it to be a compromise. That is not compromise, that is caving.

Stand in solidarity with organized labor!

Now there is a foreign concept.....sounds like something from a commie protest poster.

PS: Jim -- What Larry's trying to say is he wants his country back from the black dude occupying the White House!

Feisty, this has nothing to do with the color of the skin - it is about the issues with the progressive experiement in driving the country into poor policies from an unqualified administrator. Why do you and your buddy the "Cut and Past" queen continually to draw the race card? Can't you develop a good argument when the going gets weak for your side?

#3.3

Wow! This caught peoples attention didn't it? Thank god that our state democratic parties have some spine, unlike our president, who just gives in to republican demands without even negotiating. Anybody remember he was going to close Gitmo, stop illegal federal wiretapping, put people ahead of corporations, etc, etc.

This is really interesting. Thanks for all the insights, from all sides,but especially Black Hills Laura, and Amy from Portland, ME! I strongly agree, that just like Newt Gingrich & co, back in '94, the repubs have once again overestimated what people really want from government and will find themselves unemployed in 2012.

Black Hills Laura - Do you really think corruption only exists at the corporate level ?? Have you ever heard of Jimmy Hoffa or Bobby Kennedy ?? Instead telling everybody you don't agree with how stupid they are, perhaps you could spend at least a fraction of a second educating yourself. You make so many unsubstantiated claims and express so many poorly thought out notions I don't really know where to begin so let's just start at the beginning...

The governor of Wisconsin (and others) don't care about political capitol. They were hired to do a job. Balanced budgets are REQUIRED by law in many states including Wisconsin. Public sector employee's are being asked to take concessions that private sector employees made years ago (ie contributing to their own health care and paying a part of their retirement). I don't know if you realize this but it is the same private sector employees that are employed by corporations that pay the salaries of public sector employees. If they won't take concessions there will need to be layoff's, that is simple math. The union that protects teachers is only protecting their revenue stream and that of the Democratic party. Follow me on this, a non-union Republican pays taxes which goes to teachers salaries, out of which come union dues, which go right back to the Democratic party as polical contributions. That might explain why all the Democrats are scurrying to keep the status qua.

As for your Dad if he thought so highly of unions why didn't he join one ?? Probably because he wasn't compelled to join like blue collar workers are. "Join the union or you can't work here". The term you are searching for is "Closed shop" look it up

The peoples right to keep and bear arms exists so the government can't take their freedom, I'm sure even you can understand that. The government reserves the right to put you in prison and deny you your freedom where they see fit. Why do you think the THEY carry guns. If they are the only ones that are armed, what would prevent them from taking advantage of that power. When I last checked I don't remember ever hearing of Chrysler throwing anybody in their corporate jail.

Checks and Balances ?? wrong again. The people decided that the nation would benefit from free education for all (good idea) However teachers and tax payers are not opposing parties. If the people don't think they are getting their monies worth they will simply stop spending the money. They are not compelled to give the teachers whatever they WANT. The people will decide what is fair. You said "You want public employees to pay more for benefits and pensions" I would say how could they pay any less ?? Public employees pay considerably lees for their benefits than the people in the private sector and its the private sector people through their taxes that pay the salaries of the public employees. As for businesses getting tax breaks (just like you were never in a union I'm sure you have never ran a business) you need to understand that when businesses are have less of a tax burden they can grow, when they grow they can hire more employees that in turn can pay more taxes that the Democrats can spend on pet projects. Don't even start with if they pay less taxes they will just keep the money, anybody who knows anything about business knows you make more money in the long run if your business grows

Which brings us to your last paragraph "ramming of philosophical agenda down the throat of everybody" obviously you are talking about the government health insurance program. But at least the Republicans did their job and showed-up something Democrats evidently are too afraid to do . Maybe they are more concerned about their political Capitol

Write again soon (well maybe not)

JAM you must have missed the suck up phone call between Walker and the phony Koch brother,...kinda' shoots a giant hole in your 'theory'.

But, good luck with that.

Someone has to stand up to the bad guys in the Republican -Tea Party, and protect the rights of follow human beings. Lord knows that you people don't care about anyone but yourselves.

Job, Someone needs to stand up to the Banks, Wall street and the Fed. But they own both parties so it's the American people who will suffer.Maybe if we all got together and marched on Wall St demanding all the money they stole we would get somewhere. Anyone else ever wonder where the money went?

Job1:

WTF do that "You People" remark mean? They are not protecting anyones rights. What rights has anyone lost?

Evidently they are running like little kids having a temper tandrum.

ITM never knows what he is talking about so ignore him as he is not a worthy opponent.

Very Good Point Lisa.

Thanks Ron, I pretty much ignore ITM. But, sometimes his crazy talk can make you laugh.

I'm convinced that ITM stands for:

In the Middle of flunking out of his court ordered anger management classes!

Ain't that right there ITM?

Thanks, job where is the money. Our politicians our tearing us apart but nobody is investigating where all our money went. I can guarantee that the people on Wall st along with the big banks aren't worried about their next paycheck. They are sitting in their penthouse and their mansions in the Hamptons counting their {our} money.DOJ has the right to confiscate Drug Dealers money. The can take Mobster's money. Why not the bastards that robbed this country.

Job and Ron:

Both of you can kiss my azz.

Enuff said.

Ignore all you want, neither one of you pay any bills here. I will always step to you if I feel you are full of it.

Lisa, it was just reported today that Bill Daley, Obama's new chief of staff received 8.7 million last year at J P Morgan including over 5 million in bonuses. If you are wondering where the money is, you can walk over to the White house.

Feisty......ever heard of the pot and the kettle, sweetie?

The states have to balance their budget. The politicians have us fighting with each other. We average Americans aren't the culprits. Do you really believe every Republican wants to break the Unions? Or that every Dem thinks all Republicans are evil? No it's all smoke and mirrors to cover up for the Banks and Wall St. It was reported today that home prices may drop another 25% We bailed them out after they robbed us and now we can't get Home mortgages. Where's the money?

republicans initiated this tactic.....check out texas politics....they rode buses all over the place to avoid voting on an agenda.....the democrats are finally learning how to play their games....so indiana has jumped in the fray....pandora palin must be proud of her home state....that's right she was not born in alaska....perhaps, we should check her birth records.

someone once said "communism will come to america carrying a bible and draped in the flag". what will happen if they take back "their" country....take away the rights of the middle, you only have a select number of rich. And the poor? why set up more slave colonies....why are they trying to rewrite history books for school children...is it because they only want "his story" to be known instead of that of people who were here generations before most of their "ancestors" set foot on the soil of this country....

"When the game is rigged..."

The game wasnt rigged. There was an election. The Governor and the Legislature ran on a platform of reining in the corrupt unions.

They won. You lost.

I agree--if the Republicans were enacting legislation that they ran on or if they would entertain any compromise, I might feel differently. To me the Democrats are engaging in nonviolent protest in an effort to be heard--good for them.

I find it refreshing to have an "up front" and "no compromise" politician in office. Giving in to Democrats is part of what has turned people off to Republicans in the first place. Stand your ground and hold your head high, Governor!

Opajack, I agree. If the GOP refuses to talk, to negotiate, democrats need to do what they are doing and force the issue.

Miguel. Please explain when republicans gave into democrats the past 2 years on domestic policy. They voted NO, they obstructed, delayed and denied the majority rule. What is it with conservatives? This country was founded on compromise, our entire system of government was created through compromise, the best of both sides. Yet conservatives view bi-partisanship as a negative. Apparently, it is just fine with conservatives if they roll over everyone else but when the shoe is on the other foot, well, now that's unacceptable.

Sorry, Jody, I meant "giving in" referring to when Republicans vote like liberals, not necessarily just in the last two years.

Jody....that the exact point...

Its about time the Republicans finally started acting like the conservatives they are supposed to be and not progressive lights.

Bull puckey. Why do you think the Tea Party and GOP in Wisconsin and Indiana aren't using their strength in numbers to get what they want? Or is that OK because it suits your ideology? Fair warning, if the GOPTP succeeds in busting unions, big corporations will be cutting wages and benefits because they no longer have any competition for employees. You're probably laughing but you won't be laughing a few years from now when your employer does the same and they won't care whether you are a republican or a democrat.

Jody, I am a supporter of the free market system, with all its ups and downs. If my employer cuts wages/benefits, I am always free to look elsewhere due to the competitive nature of business. The age of slacker unions is the anomoly. We need to have people hired and fired based on merit alone, to build stronger companies that can compete around the world.

Sure, Miguel,

But just so's you know, that 'free' market ran up a bar tab to the tune of $15 TRILLION dollars and I don't see anyone but Dem's being asked to help pay for it. And don't try and tell me you Repubs weren't DRUNK from the party.

Well said Mark_in_Indy!!

Daniels is about looking good with a budget in the black and not about caring for Hoosiers.

Even if the budget being in the black came from money borrowed from the federal government.

Wow how exciting to think about a Republican controlled Congress, look what good people will be behind that, creating pictures of a divided country. The hate is going to catch up with you! You marginalize yourselves further with every hate filled message!

That will not happen. The America people can be stupid at times, but not that stupid.

Bob: There you go again...Hallucinating and having delusions.

@Bob: I'm sorry, I have the radio on and "Teenage Dream" in the background and the mental image of Pelosi and Reid in a flophouse in Tiajuana is just too funny "don't ever look back, don't ever look back...."

;-)

Oh Bob, that is an ugly visual. You just made it 5pm somewhere, wine time to attempt to erase this from the memory banks. Nancy has a vineyard, staffed by criminal aliens, just down the road and my neighbor indicated he once saw her sunbathing. Poor guy had to call his friend to get him, for he couldn't drive due to the blindness.

I understand if Nancy has one more facelift, she'll have a beard!

Gosh, I love this "act like a libbie day". We all must make this a national event on this site say, March 1.

@Safecracker: April 1 would be more appropriate don't you think ?

No, I understand that is a day for actual libbies to expand their knowledge.

LOL, that was good.

Oh, the voters will remember how the Democrats saved them and how the Republicans wanted to bury them.

"Police custody"? "Charges of harboring a fugitive"?

Isn't that how they deal with opposition opinion in third world countries?

Seems to me they work for we the taxpayers. If they want to work without being accountable for how they're using our tax dollars, they are free to search for a job in the private sector.

Joanne..... So if they are so devoted to "the cause" why dont they just all resign their posts as state senators? Wouldn't this be the "ultimate" sign of being for the "little man"?

Oh wait then theyd have to walk away from their cushy pension and benefits....

Its funny, in Illinois, the governor said (before the election) that taxes would have to be raised, and their would have to be spending cuts as well. The Republicans were all for the cuts in spending, but tax increases would melt them like the wicked witch in Oz. Reality is that Republicans have to understand that a balanced budget takes both parts of the formula, revenue and expenditures.

When you cut some revenues to create an imbalance, the voters can figure out that it is disingenuous to blame the workers (expenditures) for the budget not being in balance. To also say, oh, by the way, you will NEVER, EVER, be able to ask to get back the cuts you are accepting in this time of "crisis" (even though its artificial.) That is what is happening in Wisconsin. Walker thought all of Wisconsin was as stupid as his supporters and he could just jam this through. He did not realize that the Senators could just as easily wait out for a year, until he can be recalled.

Well said, Straightline.

So in your world, a Governor becomes a Dictator when he requires state employees, paid by tax dollars, to go to work and do their jobs. Amazing...

Miguel you forget that "work" is a 4 letter word to progressives....

How do you hide something from a progressive? Hide it in their work boots.

The truth well stated straightline. Unfortunately, the republicans can't handle the truth.

"Let me just make this point, John, because we're not campaigning anymore," the president said. "The election's over."

- Barack Obama -

Progressives can't stand the taste of their own medicine. The election is over, people. We The People have spoken over your shrill whaling and now it's time for the real work of getting our great country you are so desperately trying to bankrupt back on track. Get out of the way and let these Governors do their job!!! Stop Obama's partisan meddling!!!

Frank, I see the run-away legislators as buying time for the ordinary American to understand what the issues are. By stalling the vote, they get the word out as to what is happening, what it means for the citizens and who is pushing the agenda. As you well know, many people don't pay attention until after a law is passed.

Amen Amy.

Amy: Well stated!!

It's looking like not going to work is a new form of filibuster used by state legislators.

But Ron...isn't this a dangerous precedent to be setting? Every time the other party is going to pass something you don't like you run away and nothing gets done? If this legislation is truly as horrible as is being said, won't anyone voting for it be thrown out of office in the next election? Or at the very least, won't the courts issue some sort of injunction if it's illegal or unconstitutional? Look, I'm not debating the merits of the legislation itself, but rather the fact that we now have 2 states where lawmakers have fled to another state because they don't like legislation drawn up by the majority party.

Frank, I think you have to look at the whole situation. Walker and the GOP passed three separate tax cuts for big business and the wealthier residents since January. That created a budget shortfall so now they are demanding payment from middle class workers to subsidize those tax cuts. These are ordinary working people's lives and rights and Governor Walker has dug in his heels refusing to even discuss it. The public union workers have agreed to the concessions and yet Walker continues to claim it is about the budget--it isn't, it is about removing workers' rights to bargain. A little insubordination in protest of people's rights is justified and in this case--I fully support the WI and IN democrats for finding a way to fight dictatorial tactics.

As Ron said, this is a form of filibuster. I understand the idea of what Frank is saying but....It was a dangerous precedent the federal Senate GOP set when filibustering every single piece of legislation and every nominee even when those same people voted for the nominee once the filibuster was broken. No, I think some insubordination is good every now and then. Maybe next time, the GOP in WI and IN will be less like dictators.

Hi Jody...

But when I think "dictatorial tactics", I'm thinking of a ruler dissolving parliament or something like that. The legislature is trying to vote on something where a majority of that body will likely vote in favor. The bill passed by the legislature will then be signed by the governor. Isn't that how a democratic process works? Representatives and a governor were elected...a majority of those representatives vote in favor of a bill, and it is signed by the elected governor. I just don't see where that is dictatorial.

Again...I'm not debating the pro's and con's of this bill. (I'm woefully undereducated on the topic of modern day unions). Nor am I saying that not compromising with the opposition is a smart move. I'm simply saying that in our form of government, the ballot box is the place to hit those legislators that you feel are not listening to the desires of their consituents. That's all. (OK..perhaps my youthful idealism is showing a bit here)

But I do appreciate and always enjoy hearing your point of view.

Jody:

I'm quite sure that you and everyone else on here supporting this action is doing so from a position of "Its not me walking out on my job". If you were to walk out on your job because you don't like the boss changing all of the restrooms to co-ed, you would be fired on the spot.

Nope I am well educated and do not regurgitate talking points. There are numerous objective sources to refer to for this information.

"politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/feb/18/scott-walker/wisconsin-gov-scott-walker-says-his-budget-repair-/"

"www.epi.org/economic_snapshots/entry/wisconsin_public_servants_already_face_a_compensation_penalty/"

"ww.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/02/wisconsin_public_unions"

See I do not have to lie because it is pretty easy to reference my sources of data. Are you going to apologize for calling me a liar now?

Bravo, rfee, Bravo.

Thanks it has been my experience that these guys prefer name calling rather hard data. Unfortunately their way is quite effective when combined with all the misinformation their side puts out look at the amount of name calling in this comment thread

Not everyone in IN voted for Coats! It's crazy to think that a lobbyist will change his ways.

GOP is at it again. They call this bi-partisan??? Just like with the budget. They don't want to discuss it, they aren't interested in the "long run", they are going to find themselves surrounded by more Democrats, because the American People are tired of their tyranny!

The GOP doesn't want to discuss the issue, they are 'forcing' these cuts and the this is the proper response. They walk until the GOP is ready to further discuss it. Funny how so many of the GOP didn't show up either, they needed 67 and only 58 showed. Guess they are too happy about this 'iron fisted legislation' either!!

Pitch perfect statement!

Cowards that wont stay and Vote on their Convictions is Not Pay Back. its a Prime Example of why the Country REJECTED the Democrats im the Last Elections Please Keep it up. They will Reject even more come 2012.. thats the Payback.

Liberals always want to be Paid for not doing the job they were Hired to do.

John:

That description makes me proud to be a Republican or anything other than a Democrat...Ooops....Progressive. I can't tell you what they will call themselves tommorrow.

John, you have chosen well then. You are in the party of 'NO'! No common goal. No common sense. No bi-partisanship. No leadership. etc....

Walker has half of Wisconsin outside of his office door right now and is under heavy guard by the State Police (Many of whom are also outside the door protesting)

Personally, I'm waiting to see him pull a Qaddafi (sp??)

He's backed himself into a corner like a rabid rat!

GF, you must have missed my post over on the Israel Ambassador thread.

If you put their words up side by side, you wouldn't be able to tell which is the dictator from Libya and which is the dictator from Wisconsin.

Nothing like being SO RIGHT, you'll 'kill' to get your way. PS. Walker is now stopping paychecks in Wisconsin. In case you wonder why I am so pissed off.

Hiya Clara - yeah I missed it! ;o( I'm on my way to go check it out!

This is freakin ridiculous!