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In the last two weeks, there's been a slowly bubbling uproar over H.R. 3, legislation to prohibit taxpayer funding of abortions, introduced by Rep. Chris Smith (R-NJ). The bill seeks to eliminate the need to keep passing the Hyde Amendment, the current language that bans the use of federal funds for abortion, by codifying the ban into permanent law.
The controversy: Multiple human rights groups have said the exception clause in the bill seems to redefine "rape" -- therefore making it more difficult, perhaps illegal, for women who are subject of rape or incest who rely on government funding for health care to obtain an abortion.
SEC. 309. TREATMENT OF ABORTIONS RELATED TO RAPE, INCEST, OR PRESERVING THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER.
The limitations established in sections 301, 302, 303, and 304 shall not apply to an abortion--
(1) if the pregnancy occurred because the pregnant female was the subject of an act of forcible rape or, if a minor, an act of incest; or
(2) in the case where the pregnant female suffers from a physical disorder, physical injury, or physical illness that would, as certified by a physician, place the pregnant female in danger of death unless an abortion is performed, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself
At issue is the term "forcible rape," which according to one reproductive-rights lawyer has no definition in federal code and appears to be a step backwards in how sexual assault is defined in the country. Also at issue is limiting the incest exception to minors.
Today, Smith's office confirmed it is rewriting the exception clause to match the language in the Hyde Amendment, which states:
SEC. 508. (a) The limitation established in the preceding section shall not apply to an abortion-
(1) if the pregnancy is the result of an act of rape or incest; or
(2) in the case where a woman suffers from a physical disorder, physical injury, or physical illness, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself, that would, as certified by a physician, place the woman in danger of death unless an abortion is performed.
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Priorities, baby!
Before you accuse the Republicans of losing the jobs focus, realize that this language could help create jobs in the "back alley surgeon" sector.
I don't know...
funding places that deliver babies then snip their spinal cords with scissors....
paying for some pimp's 14 year old hooker's abortions...
41% of NYC pregnancies end in abortion...isn't this just really, really expensive birth control.....and why do we have to pay for it.... tax breaks, subsidies...
Probably worth spending a little time on.
"The Party" that wants to control "The Pantie"... what a sick little group
Your all heart bob.
devie,
cute name....get back to me when you have something worth responding to.
Nice one bob. Seeing as to your response it seems I did. How's about you get some new material. BTW Thanks for the complement.
Seems like men are demanding that, if they get lucky enough to knock somebody up, they mean for them to STAY knocked up.
that doesn't happen legally, and if you know of it you should call the police immediately!
If a pimp has a 14 year old hooker, that child is likely a sex slave and again, you need to report this immediately!!
you don't.
Quit legislating my body and start creating jobs!
fireryone,
Don't follow the news?
The doctor has been arrested, the Planned Parenthood worker did lose her job, (it was reported) and yea we do. Just a small sample.
BTW - Did you not even bother to read the article, or do you not understand what tax payer funding is?
AnaBanana-1782128 "Quit legislating my body and start creating jobs!"
So Harry Reid can ignore it? Nothing the Republicans pass in the House can get past Harry, so let's be realistic. Just wait and see. The Republicans will pass lots of legislation to lessen costs and regulations on busineses to encourage job growth, and reduce bloated federal budgets, and each time, Harry Reid will pronounce them "Dead On Arrival".
Ana -
All they are saying that the taxpayer will not pay for the abortion. Personally, I think this is valid. It's your body, do what you will - just don't expect me to pay for it.
Personally, I feel that abortion should be between the woman and her doctor - and only the woman and her doctor. A husband or significant other can give advice, just as a social worker or clergy can, but ultimately, the decision is hers. But the flip side of the coin is this - it is her responsibility to pay for it as well, no one else's. Taxpayer monies should not go to pay for an abortion under any circumstances.
Its a necessary, safe and legal medical procedure. Dang right taxdollars should fund it.
Ana,
From www.bls.gov dated 2/4/2011
So where are the jobs?
I don't know Al the Dems had over two years and you never complained and the Reps have the house for less than a month and you complain. Something to think about don't you think?
Jon Stewart just had a very not so funny, funny skit on the difference between "Rape" and "Rapish" as described by the GOP.
Best medicine is comedy!
Jobs numbers as reported in USA today yesterday were up, so the jobs are there. Yay Speaker Boehner!!!
The Repukes will lose everything come 2012. Obama and the Dems will win big because they have a plan. The Repukes have no plan except the old plan that did nothing. The only time they even mention JOBS is when they are in front of a camera. Their actions say Continue to give tax breaks to the rick and tax the middle class to death. Who do you think buys the stuff that creates the jobs!?!? The middle class!! No Ideas, no plan, no reelection, No No No No No That's all you ever hear. Start doing what you where elected to do. The Weeper of the house is a joke and will be laughed right out of his own house.
Maybe women should ban together and get a law passed the requires ALL MEN to be given a drug that makes them impotent. Then give the antidote to women. The woman would have total control and thereby not have a need for an abortion.
As soon as this happens I will happily support a law that forbides abortion.
Women power !!
I don't think impotency is the way to go. Maybe a male infertility pill would be a better option.
Sonokursh2,
Excellent fix all! I'm all for it. Develop it. Put it in writing and it will be circulated like wildfire and anyone running on it becoming law will be voted for by every woman in America.
Will that apply to the lobbyist who slept with the Boner should the two of them change their stories? Or because one or both claim bodily harm because the orange man melted on them?
Just asking...
funny...
I am pro-life, yet I abide by the courts decision in Roe vs. Wade. I have no right to tell anyone else what to do with their bodies. BUT as liberals love to say, a woman has a right to choose whether to get an abortion or not to get an abortion. But when CHOOSES to have an abortion, no taxpayer dollars should be used to obtain that abortion. I think what the problem is today, is we all know that the current administation is trying everything they can to "back door" the tax payers into paying for that abortion.
If a woman who is on welfare (taxpayer dollars) gets an abortion, we are paying for it. I don't care if we pay for it directly or not, she gets taxpayers dollars, and she uses them to obtain an abortion.
Planned Parenthood uses taxpayer dollars to pay doctors to perform abortions.
Over the last few years, we have seen news stories where Planned Parenthood turns a blind eye to laws currently on the books and performs abortions on underage girls. Those girls got pregnant somehow, why are they not being forced to name the fathers of these children so that the fathers can be prosecuted for statutory rape?
Why are the liberal women's organizations (NOW) not screaming about this violation of the law? Sex trafficking is one of the biggest problems in the world now, yet we hear nothing from NOW and other women's organizations to help with putting an end to this business. I'd like someone to explain NOW's silence on the sex trade please.
For all of you that insist on saying Conservatives hate women, my question is why do liberals hate little girls who are being raped?
ALREADY no taxpayer dollars are used to fund abortions. They are trying to say that no subsidized health plan can cover abortion, even if the coverage rider is fully paid for by the purchaser. Abortion in this country is a legal medical procedure and to prohibit coverage for a legal medical procedure even if paid for by the consumer is pretty questionable.
Janet complains that the tax payers end up paying for abortions for people on welfare but I wonder if she considered how much the government would pay to raise the child and then incarnate them because of our wonderful education system
Well, I see cooler heads prevailed. Would one of you on the right explain to me why the Republicans hate and want to control women? Seems axiomatic to me...if you "want the Federal Government off your back" I would assume that you would be deeply offended that your party wants to control the most intimate decisions that families make. And don't spout the "right to life" nonsense. That starts with the woman who must make a decision. She is the one best able to determine what her own circumstances are.
Keep the government out or my life -- except for who I sleep with, what i do with my body, who I can marry.
"explain to me why the Republicans hate and want to control women?"
NDD- I wonder if this is like that one religion Hannity is always worrying about on his radio program? You know- that one practiced in the Middle East so much...
It sure feels like that dbo. Should be required to totally cover ourselves any day now.
The New GOP if you buy into our bs plan at GOTP you'll get access to our nationwide three G network. That's right the God, Guns and Gays network is all yours for the low entry price of putting us in charge of your government! That's right and if you vote for us in 2012 we'll return our country back to the 1950's! Man that was when life was great! When men were men, women knew there place, and so did the minorities, abortions were done in the back alley and Gays were in the closet! Good times, Good times...
Newday
Ill take a stab at this one.....
The woman in an abortion case has lived her life and has made choices (we can debate rape / incest later) to put herself in a situation to where she became pregnant. That WAS HER CHOICE. Thats where "choice" should stop.
Now.... lets examine something.... Im assuming your stance is that a child is not a child until that child is born and breating on his/her own correct? If this is the case I might as well not waste either of our time because your stance is that a child in the mother's womb is not entitled to any sort of protection against harm or murder.
Now if you do happen to believe that life begins at conception (this is my stance) that means that it is the government's responsibility to protect that unborn child (or any other human that is unable to defend themselves) against harm or murder. Much the same as it is illegal (by God's and man's laws) to murder another person, it should not be legal (or as it is going anymore -- congratulated) to murder an innocent child who's ONLY "wrongdoing" was being concieved by two people who dont want him / her.
That is where the divide is. Most liberals believe that life does not start until birth. Most conservatives believe life begins at conception.
Now I am a conservative (Actually Im a Christian before all else...) Im not a Republican or Libertarian (Actually I would be more a libertarian than anything) and Im not even getting into overturning Roe V. Wade (though that should have been Speaker Boehner's first priority -- as Im willing to bet this is one of the top reasons why our population levels drop -- more so than cancer, killings etc.).
What I am getting into is the fact that tax dollars are going to the murder of innocent children. This is another reason I am against Obamacare-- It allows increased govt sponser genocide.
Not one single tax payer penny should EVER go to the killing of an innocent unborn child.
Now where I (gasp) will agree with you is the need for major overhaul / reform of the adoption process. Where two idiots can get together and create a child only the well off it seems are able to adopt a child.
This is the situation that needs to be addressed. Make adoption affordable (be it by the gov't getting involved or one of those evil private companies setting something up to make a horrible terrible profit) for more people.
That alone would solve a lot of the issues today.
Also teaching kids about sex education (mainly abstinence as it is 100% effective all the time -- but also other forms) is abig step....but that deals with parents actually being parents....and that doesnt happen too much anymore.
Bottom line is it all depends on where you stand on when life begins.... Im assuming you dont believe that life starts at conception so its impossible to get you to see anything other than that.
Larry - the Supreme Court has determined abortion is a legal medical procedure.
The Hyde Amendment provides that no government funds will be used for said procedure.
It matters not when people believe life begins. We have legislation in place.
We've wasted enough legislative hours on this issue.
Let's move on to the important issues concerning our country shall we?
Vermontgirl
You are coming at this from the standpoint that our rights come from the government.....
Again.... just like newday until you go back and read EXACTLY what the Framers said in the Constitution you wont understand that Roe V. Wade is unconstitutional as it spits in the face of the "inaliable rights" that are NOT "given" by the government.
And Larry, since you are not a woman, this is not about you.
Like I said, Larry, I have no interest in the "right to life" nonsense. The reason the Founders were so careful to separate religion from state is that people like you try to codify their anachronistic beliefs into law.
Larry, your "inalienable rights" reference is from the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution.
@Larry, the point is, many conservatives, libertarians, TPers, are so upset that the government would be involved in their health care, yet those same people are perfectly willing to do several things:
1. Have the government tell a woman what she and her doctor can and can not do with her body. They state that an abortion, even with RU486 or some other type of abortion which takes place in the first tri-mester (or at any time) is murder of a human being.
2. Have the government kill people who have been born, are alive, on "proof" which may or may not be accurate.
If the government should stay out of personal medical decisions, keep it out. If the government should not be involved in killing people, keep it out of that business. To espouse anything else is hypocracy and you lose all credibility.
Larry, as a woman who had to make a choice after I'd "made the choice", I can tell you that it isn't as cut and dry/black and white as you men think it is. Having a child should be a joy, all children should be wanted and loved. An unintended pregnancy because of an accident should not condemn a woman to a lifetime of either being a parent or wondering where/how when their child will show up wondering why they were given away. The decision to terminate a pregnancy is not made lightly.
So until you can walk a mile in the shoes of a pregnant woman who doesn't wish to be pregnant, you need to please stay out of the lives of women who do not believe as you do. It isn't any of your business.
"And Larry, since you are not a woman, this is not about you"
That is a correct statement, but for me to pay for an abortion is about me. I'm all about pro-choice, but I don't have to pay for it.
Larry, what part of "legal" do you not get? If you have some sort of moral or religious objection to abortion, then by all means, don't get one. As for the rest of us, you've got no say.
By the way Larry, choice is a constitutional right women have. The speaker of the house is a member of Congress. He can't overturn a Supreme Court decision. (and in fact, no one is going to overturn that decision. Get used to it.)
Paul: You pay for schools regardless of whether you have a child in them. You pay for roads even when you don't drive on them. You pay for wars whether you approve of them or not. This is no different. it's a LEGAL medical procedure women need. And not just wealthy women.
All the GOPTPers who want to take us back to the 50's should keep in mind that the top tax rate in the 50's was 90%. Be careful what you wish for.
Exactly, newday
I would assume that you would be deeply offended that your party wants to control the most intimate decisions that families make.
Do these righties not know what government control or "government take over" is?
I don't think they do Beverly. It seems that govt. control to the Republicans is only that which stops them from robbing people.
Beverly Ill ask you the same thing I brought up in my relpy to New Day
If the government's job is to ensure the health and safety of it's citizens why are the unborn children not allowed the same rights as the people who concieve them?
Give me a legitimate well thought out response and maybe we can find a starting point to start discussing this.
Oh yes they do and they want to get back in the driver's seat in the worst possible way! They will say anything and do anything to get back into power. "The GOTP were ends justify the means."
As usual, the Repubs care about the 'unborn', not the 'born'!
I wonder how many of the females in any of their families have had an abortion?
Is their argument strictly about who pays for the procedure or is it the whole 'right to life' mantra?
Which is it?
Those old coots need to get a life (of their own)...and make sure that on the flip side, child support laws are strictly enforced!...Remember it takes two!
Larry, the reason that the unborn are not afforded the rights of a person until they are born and take their first breath is very simple really. At any point in the pregnancy the fetus can spontaneously abort (miscarry) or die (stillbirth).
Larry, shall we give all sperm and eggs "legal rights" over women and men as well? (no hot tubs for you buddy...you might be killing a "pre" human.
Hey we dont want to control Women.....
Seems that Women Cant even control themselves. if they did We would not see so many Abortions. Just an Observation. .
Do what you want i dont care.. But until such time as you can control your sexual behaviors responsibly. dont expect me to pay for your Abortion.
As for me I am against Abortion. but dont want to make it illegal. . I just choose never to sleep with a woman that would ever have one.
Why not use the male birth control pill. After all why should the woman be 100% responsible for reproduction protection? Are you not also participating?
Because you are incontrol of your own bodies.. Not men.
Control yourselves and quit trying to blame men when you get pregnant. . Its your Fault. not mine..
If you didnt spread your legs in the first place . You wouldn't get pregnant
Steve-505729
Because you are incontrol of your own bodies.. Not men.
Control yourselves and quit trying to blame men when you get pregnant. . Its your Fault. not mine..
If you didnt spread your legs in the first place . You wouldn't get pregnant
Besides, dumb women- everyone KNOWS 'rape' doesn't REALLY exist.
dbo: I think Steve wins the prize for the most moronic thing ever said on FR.
DBO,
So you think women are Dumb.. Why would you say that about them. Shows what you think about them. I am sure that will go over well with the Bev and the Feisty..
Steve-505729
I'm against Abortion and I don't want to control women either, but as long as we have men out there who like to rape women and young girls and men who will have sex with out protection then we must not take the option for a women to choose.
you said women are out of control, well if men were in control then the abortion issue would not be a Issue. Right.
My step daughter is 16 and got pergant by a 18 year old good for nothing dope dealing ass Hole, she was on the pill and once she found out she thought we would let her have one, but we said, if you want to play adult games then you must be a adult and have this baby. Now had she been raped, fine have a abortion.
Newday,
Seems women are Responsible enough to make Decisons about their own bodies but not Responsible enough to not lay down in a bed or a backseat where they may get pregnant.. Seems you think you women have ZERO responsiblity in thier own Condition. Everything in your mind seems to be the Fault of someone else.. Mostly.. Republicans. We get it..
newdayDAWNING10
dbo: I think Steve wins the prize for the most moronic thing ever said on FR.......
"So you think women are Dumb.. Why would you say that about them."
......Sounds like maybe the concept of 'sarcasm' escapes him, also.
Jeff,
I never once said women were out of Control. I said Women need to Control themselves when it comes to there Sexual Behaviors..
They are the only ones that can get pregnant. Not men. If a women lays down with a Man that wont use Protection .. Again. Its her Fault for Continueing on with the Act. period...
As for Rape and Incest. Cut those mens Nuts off... But in all other Forms of Concensual Sex.. the Repsonsiblity Totally lies with the women When the man Refuses to wear a Condom.. Its her Fault if she Continues..
dbo...sarcasm is a complex thing, certain to be over his head.
Steve-505729
Sorry i guess reading is a skill,
They are the only ones that can get pregnant. Not men. If a women lays down with a Man that wont use Protection .. Again. Its her Fault for Continueing on with the Act. period...
well i agree with you on this, If my step daughter had a half a brain she would not be pregant. we tried to first tell her to wait till her body was old enough to have and enjoy sex, then to protect her self against desease and HIV, my daughters listion to there mother when it came to sex. there are out of college and if they get pregant now, there grown, but this 16 years old is in for a hard life raising a child by her self. her mother and I tried to talk to her, now the talking is over and we have said, we don't care of you finish school we don't care. if she was not samrt enought to listion to us, then she is on her own.
but Steve you can't put this on the women only, men have a role in this as well, I told my son that unless he want to be a father before his time i said use protection, because that condom will cost alot less than a kid.
rape and incest, Yes not only cut there ball off, but take there Johnson with it, make then pee through a tube for the rest of ther lives.
Does the word misogynist ring any bells? There Steve? Your statements certainly suggests it. BTW it takes two there big guy in case you missed that part back in junior high health class.
Jeff,
If women didnt spread there legs when a man woudln't use a condom. What chance is it that they get Pregnant?.........
Zero. the responsiblity lays with the Woman 100 percent to protect herself agaisnt that condition..
I also have a Granddaughter that is 4 years old Born to my teenage Daughter.. Her boyfriend was Stupid Enough to not wear a condom.. she was Even more stupid for continueing.. But hey. I got a Beautiful GrandDaughter and will glady continue to support my Daughter to give them both a Better life..
Better then having Aborted this Beautiful little Girl that brings so much Joy to my heart.
Devie
If Women didnt participate in a Sexual Act without Protections. We would never have to worry about it would we..
Where is womens self Control when it comes to this part of the Equation.. Do we just Rack it up to. "the heat of the moment".
I gotta go with Steve on this one. It was THAT important for me to not have to go to my father as a teenager and tell him I was knocked up. That means it was MY job to do everything in my power to keep it from happening and, I must say, I succeeded admirably. I will never leave the things that are most important to me in the hands of someone else to keep safe- it is my job and my job alone. Teaching our kids to always rely on themselves instead of others for their happiness and wellbeing might just be the most important lesson we can arm them with because it applies to just about every aspect of life.
Steve why is this taking center stage again? This was settled by Roe v. Wade and the Hyde Admendment. We have much more important issue to deal with right now. This is just another misdirection play by the GOP. Yes the house is on fire I think I'll go mow the lawn.
"BTW it takes two there big guy " That's right. In his case, the right hand, AND the left one.
Devie...
Again. why not just answer the Question instead of avoiding it..
Dbo..
Takes two hands to handle my whopper,.. Just saying.
and not really sure how you knew that . YOu been sneaking peaks thru my Bedroom window on me and my Wife?
Steve-505729
Jeff,
If women didnt spread there legs when a man woudln't use a condom. What chance is it that they get Pregnant?.........
Zero. the responsiblity lays with the Woman 100 percent to protect herself agaisnt that condition..
Now i again will agree with you on that, this is what i told my daughters, inaddition my daughter saw the negative affect of teen pregancy, my x-wifes sisters were dropping babies left and right one has 4 kids with 3 Different fathers, and at a time 2 had to live with us because there mother could not begain to care for 4 kids, while there were living with us, i made my self very clear, I"M NOT HAVING ANY BULL SH*T LIKE THIS IN MY HOUSE.
your a better man than me, because if your daughter had been one of mine, i would be locked up for life for killing the father as well as my daughter. I promised my step daughter after she gives birth that I will kick her ASS, not for getting pregant, but not listioning to us and listioning to a no good dope dealer that steve is in jail with no bond, for selling herion to a undercover cop. this goof is not going to be out for a few years, but guess what, she though she was going to name this kid after him, we told her if she does that considering we are going to be supporting her, move out right now. there is only so much you can take.
Jeff,
I feel your pain friend, I also went thru all those same feelings,. Mostly feeling let down by my Daughter because i felt that she didnt listen to me. but in the End. Think of how many things we did that our parents told us not to do..
A friendly Word of Advice. No matter what she chooses in the End. dont make the Grandchild pay for Moms Mistakes.. But somehow i feel you already know that...
with all due respect..
Steve-505729
Steve its going to be a boy, and i am not going to let this kid fall through the cracks because his father is as worthless as breast on a Bull,i have told her that this boy is mine, and will get all i have to offer. i promised my self that i will see this child all the way through.
But steve i have a feeling this may happen again, If she did not listion to us then, what makes us think she will start, what we must get out of her is the selfishness that this world is all about her.
So steve we will talk more about this, i made need some guidness from you.
Jeff, and steve did either of you and the mothers of these daughters, take them to get on birth control? HMMM did you?
@fireryone... do you hear the crickets.... dead silence from Jeff and Steve.
Like all thugs, they want to keep women under their thumbs, barefoot and pregnant. They are no better than the Taliban. We don't need Sharia law in the US, we have Republicans to write our laws for us.
yes. the only one who should decide when a woman becomes mother is the woman.
Duh101. And Fireryone.. Tell me if women didnt spread their Legs for men that didnt use Protection Would they get pregnant?
You are correct. it 100 percent the Womans. Girls Responsbility. Not the Mans.
Hey. If you get cut by a Buzzsaw. how do you know whcih blade cuts you first.
I told my Daughter Straight up. if you dont want to get pregnant. dont lay down with a Man. especially if doesn't wear Protections.
Seems you always want to Divert the blame on somoene Else. Like its someone elses Responsiblity to make sure they dont get Pregnant. .. well i got news for you. if she can make the Decision to have an Abortion without a Parents Consent. She can make the Decision to get on Birth Control Is not a mans Job to make sure she does. PERIOD and it sure as hell isn't her mothers job either. Seems thats always People like you who want to blame someone else for the ACTIONS of Girls that Get Pregnant..
Uh Steve what the heck are you talking about?? Do you think we're all the product of immaculate conception? Go ask your mother about the role of sperm...maybe she can enlighten you.
AP,,
Again. Can a women Get Pregnant if she doesn't open her legs?. The responsiblity it is hers.. Period
Taking responsibility is exactly what women do: including abortion if that's what she chooses. That's exactly the point. HER decision. Not yours. (what a ridiculous argument you keep making with all that self-righteous finger wagging of yours. can she GET pregnant if a man doesn't participate?)
This is 100 Percent utter bull@!$%#! It is the responsibility of both parties to prevent pregnancy, and sometimes things fail. Your attitude disgusts me. Where do you think the responsibility of the man lies?
It is your job as a parent of an adolescent to make sure she has the information and tools to prevent pregnancy. Not all states allow birthcontrol without parental consent other than condoms. Condoms do break. So if you want your daughter to be protected then as parents you could have made her an appointment to see a dr before she got pregnant.
I raised a daughter and she didn't end up pregnant before she was ready to be a mother. She didn't become sexually active until she was on birth control. I know this for a fact because she talked to me when she thought she was ready and I helped her get on the pill. She married that man a few years later and now they have a beautiful baby girl.
fireryone
Jeff, and steve did either of you and the mothers of these daughters, take them to get on birth control? HMMM did you?
Yes my wife did have her on it, as my x-wife with my daughters, but being on the pill will not prevent pregnacy, i found that out for my self, 2 of my kids were conceived while my x-wife was on the pill, its about what steve said, not just the women should have protection and he is right, girl need not lay down if a man will not have a condom. you know the pills are not 100% guaranteed.
Also me and my x-wife kept my daughters busy, school clubs, sports, academics and a i will put my foot in your ass additude if they wanted to take the chance and have sex while they were living in my house. they are 27, 25, & 24 all out of school and right now i could care less because there grown, I kind of wish they would settle down and give me some grand kids.
Jeff, my point is that even condoms fail. This article is about abortions in the case of rape and in that situation a woman shouldn't have to worry about being able to afford the procedure.
fireryone
Jeff, my point is that even condoms fail. This article is about abortions in the case of rape and in that situation a woman shouldn't have to worry about being able to afford the procedure.
In my post about this artical i said that I'm against abortion(liberal) except in the case of rape or incest. this is how the conforsation went to my step daughter, she is 16 and pregant and thought we would allow her to get a abortion and we said NO!!!! she wanted to play adult games, so now its time for her to be a adult. If a women is a victim of a crime then she should beable to get a abortion using federal funds.
Jeff, I'm sorry...I don't think that at age 16 your daughter should be forced to become a parent because you think she should have to pay to play. It isn't good for her mental health, and not so good for her physical health either. Sex isn't an "adult game" it isn't a game at all. Your daughter doesn't have to become a mother before she is ready just because she made a mistake. I don't agree with your point of view. But it isn't for me to decide. I just hope it turns out well for your daughter and her child.
fireryone
me and my wife are against abortion, Ok!!! she knew that, we tried to tell her that she was playing with fire, we made it known that if she did get pergant she would have to carry the child, if she want to put up for adoption that is a option. me and my x-wife gave my daughters this same speach, it worked for them, why not my step daughter?
A year ago she went to her mother that she was worried she may be pergant, my wife took her to the doctor and we found out she was not thank god, at that time we sat her down and told her having sex at her age was wrong,(main reason for putting her on the pill was to help her with her cycle they were so bad she would have to miss school ) she was not old enough, the doctors told her that she was not old enough and must finish HS before starting that, and must consectrate on other things other than sleeping with her boy friend, we tried to get he into clubs, and get her to use her free time doing something constructive, instead of handing out with the wrong crowd, but she did not listion,
So i ask, if this were your daughter and you went though what me and my wife did, and she did not listion and got pregant by a good for nothing dope dealer that is sitting in jail right now, i put the police on his trail because i found out he was not only dealing weed, but herion. he was picked up selling to a undercover. as much as we tried to warn her what would happen if she did get pregant, again she did not listion.
what would you do.
Allow her to have abortion that is against what we believe, a life starts at conception. or maker her pay for her mistake ?
she has not told her father yet and she is due in june. selfish ass kid.
we are perpared to do what ever we can and offer what ever we have for this baby and will love it, but that does not make anger go away considering all we went thought to try and prevent this.
I would absolutely have allowed my daughter to make that decision. She is the one who decided to have sex, and no matter what my opinion is, the decision is hers to make. I not have wanted my daughter to have to be tied to a drug dealing thug for the rest of her life. You do realize that he will have parental rights unless and until you can have them legally severed. And there is no guarantee you will be successful in that endeavor.
By that statement there, you are essentially making the baby a punishment. Really??? Is that really how you see this? A child should not be a punishment for a mistake.
This isn't a good situation, and no I would absolutely not have forced the decision on my daughter. Even at age 16, the consequenses of your daughters decisions are hers. Like I said earlier, the decision to have an abortion or not, isn't one that most women take lightly. But it most definately is the decision of the pregnant woman.
fireryone
Believe me, Part of our decision was that we are responsible for her actions till she is 18, when will our children lean from there mistakes unless we make them accountable for there actions,
Back in the early 70s before roe-wade, my sister got pregnant at 16, she wanted a abortion, my mother wanted one, but it was illegal, But today, its not, why should they get off the hook, and destroy a life because she did not listion to us. my nice was a welcome addition to the family 2 years after my father and grandfather died in the same year. it took some getting use to, but my sister not having a abortion was a blessing. in a few years my step daughter will see it that way.
We have the father in the courts system for underage sex (she was 15 at the time she got pregant, and he was 19) in addition to his other problems, with his drug charge and the court not given him a bond, we have heard from his family that he is going to have to serve 5 years. so when he gets out my grandson will be in preschool. i have also dared him not to come any where near us or i and my step daughter father will administer street justice. he is lucky his is locked up or it would have happened already.
Believe me, my wife and i know we are going to end up raising our grandson, we just can't destroy a life, there are too many abortion happening everyday, back in the day, when this would happen, theycalld this a shot gun wedding. the availability of abortion has made our society weak and promiscuous.
if abortion was still illegal i Garnette teen pregancy would not be where its now. to many young boys depend on abortions to cover for ther actions.
I'm sorry of you disagree but as a liberal abortion is wrong.
Boo. This is a sad story. Do you realize that you will have to pay for your actions if you "administer street justice" in the event that your step-daughters baby's dady tries to excerise his rights as a father? You could at least maintain consitent logic. 19 year olds have been sleeping with 15 year olds since the beginning of time and fathers have been protecting thier daughter with violence since the beginning of time. Now days, both are ilegal. When I was 18, I slept with my 16 year old girlfriend. This situation is not that much different and I think it is sad that you happily force the scarlet letter on this kid for the rest of his life. Now he has the same designation as todler raper.
The availability of safe, legal abortions has saved many women's lives. I can respect your opinion that it is wrong. Let's leave it at that. Don't try making woman adhere to your beliefs. What a woman choses to do is between her and her doctor. The goal should be to keep abortions safe, legal and rare.
Just to clarify, I think it is totally wrong that this kid sleep with your step-daughter. I just don't agree with the "sex criminal for life" designation. Way to harsh for this kind of situation.
Charles Arlington Heights, IL
Boo. This is a sad story. Do you realize that you will have to pay for your actions if you "administer street justice" in the event that your step-daughters baby's dady tries to excerise his rights as a father?
Charles, yes it is a sad story, when my sister got pregant my brother did the same thing, reasons being the guys mother basicly told my mother that her sons child was not his her concern and would lend any support, so my brother honred his family and made this guy feel the pain his mother inflected on us. they had him arrested and he was out that night, and beat his case, NO witnesses wink wink. at the same time this goof has 3 broken ribs, and broken jaw with teeth missing. this would have been avoided if he would have not hid behind his mother and maned up. Right!!!!!!
Now this situtation Charles, is a bit different, first there is no reason why a 19 year old should be any where near a 15 year old. in some states incluuding Illinois its illegal. my step daughter was running behind our back sleeiping with this guy. second, he is a dope dealer, for me there is no lower form of a human being, selling drugs on the street. Now charles, lets be real, i will not allow this guy any perental rights, he does not deserve any, he is a dope dealer, if he were a college student, trying to make something of his life then yes, but he is not, and i'm sure in 5 years if we allow him his right, he will abandon that child like so many young brothers out there and leave it up to the government to raise his child, so we are heading this drama off at the pass by not even giving him a chance to do this.
STOP WASTING OUR TIME AND MONEY...........Who wins cultural war?
Leave it to lawyers to split hairs on this stuff... Forcible rape seems to be rather redundant and incest and rape are really only different in that one involves a relative! Seems absurd in the end. But kudos for efforts to make this permanent. Again, it's not limiting access to elective abortions, just defining who pays for it. My health insurance plan would make me pay out of pocket (I know cuz they tried to make me pay for a miscarriage- conveniently skipped the "spontaneous" part of the procedure code), it seems entirely logical to me that a government subsidized plan would include the same requirement. Pay to play, if you will.
Pay to play..
I approve of this Discription....
The key word is "forcible".
forc·i·ble (fôrs-bl, fr-) adj.
1. Effected against resistance through the use of force: "The police used forcible restraint in order to subdue the assailant."
2. Characterized by force; powerful.
If I use a "Date Rape" drug on you, the actual act of me raping you, at that point, does not require force. You are unconscious and I am free to "have my way with you". However, would you not agree that I am still raping you in that you did not consent to intercourse?
THere are still sentient human beings believe it or not who think a woman cannot get pregnant if she doesn't want to. Honest. There really are. Some of them have even been to school. You cannot leave these decisions to the state. They have to be made by the woman.
Why is it that fat /old republican men are so concerned with what goes on between a womans legs ?When they can barley keep from peeing themselves when they stand or sit . Why do they care ? Lets bunch abortion & military spending together so we can keep better track of both with equal cuts ....These old koots will squeal ..like a stuck pig !
You know. Men have always wanted to be in absolute control of women's private parts.
Is GOP = Taliban as regards to treatment of women ?
New Wavez: I vote yes.
Interesting, I am sure they will get the language right eventually
I support a woman's right to choose, despite personal religious beliefs, because this a civil rights issue and not a religious one.
That being said, I do oppose the use of any taxpayer funds to fund an abortion, except in the event of rape or incest.
Robert: Big deal: you support the right of choice, but it's fine if there's no clinic to actually choose? How the heck do you think the extremists have played this? They can't win in the courts, they can't win with popular opinion, so in conservative states and districts, they simply choke off any access at all. That's not choice. This isn't a theoretical decision. If it means anything than it's about access for poor women too.
ROBERT
As neither of us can actually bore a child I will ask you the same thing I asked New day and Beverly:
is a woman's "right" > the inherent right to life and safety that is taken away from the unborn child?
Well yes it currently is. According to Roe v. Wade. Thanks Larry for asking.
Larry
I cited my personal religious belief as different from my view of the civil rights issue
See what happens? You get the "taliban" like "Christians" trying to force their limited world view on others. Here is what it comes down to Larry...it is simply NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS what choices families make with regard to reproductive health. Now, everyone, watch what happens: Larry, you are completely willing to have your taxes fund services to women and children such as WIC and Headstart, not to mention health care, right?
Larry, do study Robert's answer and see if you can suss out what he is saying. He is quite correct.
It is the womans right to decide when she becomes a mother. Period, end of discussion. This is settled law and will not be overturned.
Republicans are demanding control of all fertile wombs!
Question: Does women's wombs belong to the women, or to Republicans?
I agree with Robert in Ohio. You can have any valid, legal, medical procedures you want, I just don't want to pay for some of them. I won't pay for your liposuction, rhinoplasty, botox or some other ones either. However, in some cases, taking the choice of having an abortion away from someone results in multi-generational people who end up on welfare. That is a reality. Unfortunately, some people's religious beliefs get in the way of dealing with the reality of the world today. That's how you end up with Roe v. Wade and DADT. In both cases you end up with a poor solution to an attempt to pander to the religious right.
I'll pay and I'm a taxpayer. Legal, safe abortions don't amount to much if they're not available to anyone but the rich.
Maybe we should let the Republicans spend the night in Chino or Rikers so they can experience getting raped, then let's see how they vote...
damon
You do understand that they are not saying the woman can't have an abortion only that taxpayer money shouldn't pay for it.
A little over dramatic by the way
You do understand that not everyone can afford to pay for medical expenses and did not chose the situation that leads to this medical expense.
Do not minimize this...this is a VERY dramatic subject and every comment or response for this deserves the title of dramatic.
Tosh
Drama and thetoric derail more debates from solutions than any other thing
This saddens me beyond words that several men and women on this comment board put ALL the blame of pregnancy on women. As far as I've learned, sperm need egg and egg need sperm, not one way is more prevalent than the other. How dare you actively participate in shaming and degrading your daughters and the females of this world, I feel sorry for you and the people you influence, just as much as I feel sorry for those who believe the responsibility relies in males only to use protection. THIS IS ALL BESIDES THE POINT THOUGH, RAPE IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT REALM. NO ONE ASKS TO BE RAPED! HOW DARE YOU (AND YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE) MINIMIZE THIS ACT. RAPE=CHOICE FOR ONLY ONE PERSON INVOLVED. RAPE IS MENTAL AND PHYSICAL AND IS NOT DEFINED BY HOW MANY BRUISES OR BROKEN BONES OR PHYSICAL TRAUMA ONE HAS AFTERWARDS!!!! I'm at a point where I may not be able to survive a pregnancy, I'm doing all I can to keep this from happening, if I'm raped tomorrow I might die, I would like the choice to preserve my life because without me how can I help or create another life. I PRAISE EVERY ONE FOR SHARING THEIR OPIONIONS!!!
Tammy, I believe you are right on. Somewhere everone has missed the picture. What goes on in the DR's office is between the Dr and the pt. That goes for everyone. I for one am tired of funding all the wreckless behavior of the masses. Please, let's be responsible for our own behavior. Pay our own way and protect the unborn. Have many of you looked in the mirror lately?
You can't possibly be an RN. You don't know that unintended pregnancies happen for reasons other than "reckless behavior"? You've never seen a patient walk in without insurance? Just a walking mass of compassion aren't you....
Ok, she can have my taxpayer monies (and I "contribute" a lot of them).
I don't believe any tax dollars should fund abortion NONE. There are other alternatives, other groups that help some of the girls that need it. Whether it's paying for the procedure or prenatal care. My problem is not with abortion itself it's with funding it. Remember the only reason Obamacare passed was he had signed an executive order that abortion would not be funded. That was the major hang up for Stupak and others. Just to find out it is covered.
It is only covered in the cases of rape and where the life of the mother is in jeapordy. There isn't any need to pass additional legislation. They are wasting time and money on this!
Stringy: only abortions done to save the woman's life or in cases of rape are paid for with tax dollars. By FEDERAL LAW. That's the way it's been for several years now.
And Obama didn't sign an "executive order" to not fund abortions. They were never in there to begin with, unless it's in the healthcare package a woman happens to buy ... which none of the alleged "prolifers" want these women to be able to buy EVEN WITH THEIR OWN MONEY if they have ANY federal assistance in buying a healthcare plan. Basically, what they want is to make sure that NO ONE who has ANY healthcare package can get one, period.
What say you about the fact that they now want to make it okay for hospitals to NOT treat women who need an emergency abortion in order to save their lives? Seems silly, since if the woman dies, SO DOES THE FETUS. After this little escapade, it is no longer a "pro-life" issue. It's about making sure no one is able to get a legal abortion ... EVER, and imposing their RELIGIOUS beliefs on everyone else, no matter what. With this latest stunt, they've become "anti-choice," PERIOD. If it were about life, exceptions for the life of the potential mother would be made. Don't you think?
GOP Men ?? Stay out of womens bodies and lives unless you want to help...when you can have a baby, or you are raped and beaten and tried to say No !! and no one listened, then you have the right to tell us what to do..
We take the abuse, we have the labor, we push the baby out into the world and all you can do is make rules for us !!...who do you old men think you are ??....go paint a fence, smoke a cigar, mow the lawn...do some big boy things if you can ...stop trying run a womans life !!!!!! You will never be as strong as we are...................you can only try and make the rules.. but we will and we are fighting back........