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Republicans will take a final stab this afternoon at repealing the health care law in the halls of Congress, but it's expected that the vote will go the same way that most of the debate over the legislation has gone: along party lines.
The Senate vote, expected between 5-6 pm ET Wednesday, will technically be on a "point of order" that would essentially nix the GOP effort to repeal the law.
Several Democrats who are up for re-election in 2012 are under pressure from outside conservative groups to side with Republicans and support the repeal effort.
The Tea Party Express has urged its supporters to flood the offices of Sens. Jim Webb of Virginia, Ben Nelson of Nebraska, Jon Tester of Montana, Joe Manchin of West Virginia, and Claire McCaskill of Missouri with calls lobbying for repeal.
FreedomWorks, an organization chaired by former Majority Leader Dick Armey, has targeted those five lawmakers as well as Bill Nelson of Florida, Bob Casey of Pennsylvania, and Jeff Bingaman of New Mexico.
But Democratic leaders are optimistic that none of their party members will defect.
Sens. Manchin and Ben Nelson - the Senate Democrats who have been the most outspoken about potential problems with the legislation - have both said publicly that they will not side with Republicans on the vote. And a spokeswoman for Tester tells NBC News that the Montana lawmaker will not vote for repeal.
It's also likely that the Senate will pass a bill this afternoon that strikes one almost universally unpopular provision from the health care law: the "1099" language that requires small businesses to submit IRS tax forms for every vendor whom they pay more than $600.
There are several competing versions of the measure that would roll back the 1099 language, sponsored by lawmakers on both sides of the aisle. Democratic aides say that the most likely of these to pass is one introduced by Democratic Sen. Debbie Stabenow. She's also up for re-election next year.
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It will be interesting to see the results...
It is good the house Rebups are working on Jobs. More than 2 years have passed since any real work has been done in that area. If the Repubs do not bring job bills up front, we will run them out of office just like we did the demos. I do find it very funny that the Demos are complaining about a job bill when they have not accoplished one in 2 years. Give the Repubs at least that long before you lefties start your pissing and moaning. Obama must go. To many half truths, lies and distortions. I am sure he will regret putting that Health care mess in front of the countries needs and tackling this Depression......
Those Senators that vote against the repeal are putting up the White flag. They will be gone in 2012.
Wasnt it Harry Reid that said there would never Be a vote on this in the Senate..
So Daryl.
What your Trying to Say is that the Host here at PSMSNBC. got it wrong and the Headline they used is just a Biased peice of work?
I get it..
4 years of Democratic control and look at the Great jobs at McDonallds being filled.
No, Steve-505729474368743567432 --
You DON'T get it. If you understood basic Senate procedure *and* read a newspaper, you'd understand two important things:
(a) Points-of-order are Senate procedures, but not the same as a final bill vote. In fact, there are many votes before any bill comes up for a final vote. Why would you think it would take around a year for the original bill, and three weeks for this?
(b) Newspapers, web sites, any journalistic outlet writes "headline" in which they have to convey the maximum amount of information in the least amount of space. Think Twitter: you have 140 characters to get your message across. And you want MSNBC to use headline space to explain the technicalities of Senate procedure? That's what the *story* is for.
Carajdt, what jobs bill have the republicans passed? I don't know of a one. They are focused on health care not on jobs.
Obama has passed jobs bills several times. The HIRE Act to name one in March of 2010.
"It is good the house Rebups are working on Jobs. I do find it very funny that the Demos are complaining about a job bill when they have not accomplished one in 2 years".
Eric a jobs bill has to actually create jobs. Also do not miss quote me. It only make you look ----------.
The point of order is the vote that will collapse any remaining hope the Demos have for 2012. It will refreshing seeing What a super majority of repubs in the congress will do with a repub Pres.
Repeal that mess of a health care bill and Obama.
YES INTERESTING, Obumer granting waivers as fast as they hit his desk 2.1 million and counting and the Repubs trying to kill it outright. Seems like a very popular bill
@1.1 Oh NO... I will not give them another day... the repubs have had two years to think about a jobs bill. After all the only thing they have done is say NO NO NO NO... that is not to hard nor does it take a lot of time... I am sure that they had something ready for after the election... NO well maybe they don't have anything at all... Waiting is not an option... The repubs wanted things done immediately after the 2008 election, well I want it done now... of course they wont do anything because they don't know what to do.... they are the party of NO..... NO ideas..... NO plan...... NO honesty....... NO integrity
Ya the Party of No No Brains, No Guts, No truth, No way. After the stimulus, tarp etc were enacted and the failed attempts by the Demos to get jobs going. It will take a little time to reformat any plan for jobs. The stimulus is about to end it's effects good or bad. I would rather have a solid plan than half baked plan, "we can fix it later, a bad bill is better than no bill at all" and have it work the first time thru.
I find it soooooooooo funny, that myself and so many Repubs did not complain once about jobs until right before the election. Now the DEMOS want it within a month. I gave the Demos a chance, unfortunately what was produced was junk. Are all Demos so impatient, or are they just whiners still reeling from the elections last fall? Were the welfare checks late this month? The food stamp program cut you off from buying Cigarettes. Whiners!!!!!!!
Independent and working for the repeal of Obama and that mess of a health care bill. Ya the one that will kill the middle class...........
Caradjt... I am glad that you agree that the Republicans are the party of NO.... (sarc) As for waiting... Why should we be waiting... I would have thought that if you are running your campaign on the premis that you know how to fix the economy that you would have some sort of plan in place. Unless that was all bull@!$%# and like most politicians the only reason they said that was to get elected.....
As I seem to recall the vine posts right after the elections in 2008 the majority of republicans were asking within a week why the economy wasn't getting better... Within a month the majority of republicans were criticizing the effect of policy.... So I don't think it is either unfair nor unexpected that we on the left want to know where the progress is..... In fact since they have only said no for the last two years they should have the plan fully fleshed out and ready to implement... Of course they don't because they are clueless how to fix the economy... They have no plan, they are bluffing their way around... They are hypocrites and liars that only know how to spend money and cut taxes.... Look at history... Which party was in power when the government grew the most.... hmmmm I do believe it was the republicans.....
Wheres the job bill?
Why did Harry Lie and tell you there would never be a Vote in the Senate?
Steve
You gotta believe me there is no such things as a jobs bill
A serious of bills or a solid plan will make the business atmosphere better and companies will start to hire.
I guess Congress could pass a bill to build a road from NY to LA and put everyone to work on the project, that would be a jobs bill
Ok let's hear it from the expert around here. You know the ones always calling out "where's the jobs" "where the jobs bills?" {Drive By I'm looking at you}.
Just what would this job bill look like? Just what can the government, which itself is totally broke - to the tune of $1.5 Trillion right now, supposed to do. And give us your version - if you could write the outline of a "jobs bill" what would it say?
The Dems had two years to do anything that they wanted, and they spent a year of this terrible law. Why weren't you complaining then?
Why did Republicans LIE and say they would listen to the American poeople? Latest pole shows only 18% of Americans want a total repeal of the health care law.
The gov is not an employment agency, find a job for yourself.
Spanky-
It would say whatever you wanted the "Obama Jobs Bill" to say.
Did you forget that beginning 01/21/2009 Republicans started asking the President "where are the jobs Mr. President?"
We all ready did that it's called the Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways. You know the highways we use to get to work. But they sure could use a some sprucing up. Maybe just a tad bit don't you think?
Sheila there really isn't anyhting the government can do, other than dump a bunch of money. I believe they tried that already - I seem to recall a lot of talk about "shovel ready jobs." But then Obama, to his credit admitted that there is no such thing. But the money is gone.
All I want is the gov to stay out of it, or at least try to be as minimally intrusive as possible.. Unfortuantely that's just not in them, any of them. Part time legislature?
Thanks for the tip. For a minute there I thought they were Man Power. Man that was a close one!
Spanky-
'Ok let's hear it from the expert around here. You know the ones always calling out "where's the jobs" "where the jobs bills?" {Drive By I'm looking at you}.'
Don't look at ME, mud dauber- look at the folks that started that chant on Jan 1st, 2009. They were EVERYWHERE on here.
i really have a problem with this coming to a vote where are the dems that we need to say what they mean and stick to it because these rethugs will not be satisfied until they see people dying in the street they don't want people to have health care because then they won't have to go to these little clinics they have on all these corners where they pay $100 and get a priscription
Sorry bro - I'm looking at you Drive By. What's the matter, got nothing? Not even a cheeky, glib retort?
I really do expect better. :)
NIKKY,
You are right about the rethugs want to see people dying in the streets. And as far as those Corner Clinics, yes, they are there to ensure that people not knowledgable about prescription drugs further damage their health by accepting drugs without a proper medical doctor invested in their health and well being.
Most of these clinics are privately owned by non-medical personnel who are interested only in making money off the poor.
This is me throwing the BS flag on @Nikky.
What does a jobs bill look like, try the HIRE act passed by the dems in 2010.
Spanky as for you, non-political CBO estimates that the stimulus created or saved 3.3 million jobs.
All we get from republicans is focus on health care.
Spanky-
"Sorry bro - I'm looking at you Drive By. What's the matter, got nothing? Not even a cheeky, glib retort?
I really do expect better. :):
Caincha read? I awwreddy gave you one.
It's cool Drive By, I know it's quittin' time. I'll be expecting better tomorrow.
VAGAL; "Latest pole shows only 18% of Americans want a total repeal of the health care law". I can do a poll and word it a certain way and get any results I want. Poll are non-sense. This Poll asked do you think all parts of the current health care bill should be repealed. I would say no to that question. I want it repealed thou and here is why. It will take far longer and be much more expensive to rewrite this loophole ridden mess. There are several things that need to be in the new bill that are in the current bill. IE Pre=exsisting condition, everyone gets care, Illegals are not to get care. The illegal clause need to have some teeth installed so they do not get free care....
A huge chapter need to be added, Congress must use the same care as we. A one payer system, One cost, perhaps a merger with Medicare, 100% coverage, just to name a few things. It would take years alone to weed out all the loopholes that were put in as bribes and special favors for the Obama supporters/Corporations. The sneeky taxes/charges that were put in have to go. Moving forward only straight tax/charge to be used for this alone. 3.5% tax on home sales to pay for health care is unacceptable just to name one.....
Let's see - you've got the Tea Party Express & Freedom Works dabbling in this...
Where are the Koch Brothers?
In the meantime, where are the J O B S McConnell? Boehner? Anyone?
Feisty
Let's see - you've got the Tea Party Express & Freedom Works dabbling in this...
Where are the Koch Brothers?
In the meantime, where are the J O B S McConnell? Boehner? Anyone?
The filthy Koch Brothers hardly show their dirty faces. They let their wholly owned subsidiaries like Mitchell & Boehnor do their dirty work to all the suckers in the Tea Party
But, it would be nice if the Koch Brothers would be as fervent in creating jobs instead of exploiting jobs and buying stooges on the Supreme Court.
Feisty
"In the meantime, where are the JOBS"
Well, illegal immigrants stole about 11.2 million and the rest went over-seas.
Feisty
They are reviewing the plans and projectsof the last two years that created so many jobs and will then try and model the new plan on those that were so successful the past two years
They are probably hanging out with George Soros and all the other big money donors to the democratic party. They all created this mess together.
The Repubs don't have a Jobs Bill, period!
The Rupubs don't have a Health Care Bill, period!
....delay, just say no, repeal........
Where are the jobs McConnell, Boehner?
(Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL) So tell us why did the Dem not deal with Jobs Jobs Jobs for 2 year.
Their is a resin you guys got the Boot and that's one of the mane ones.
After 2 year you guys are Crying the same tone as the tea party,it only took a pasting at the pole to get on the same program as the Tea party.
"Well, illegal immigrants stole about 11.2 million and the rest went over-seas."
All right, you leftist-socialist Democrats! Which of you hired these immigrants? Which of you sent all those jobs over seas??
LOL! dbo. Thanks I need that!
Too easy Drive By - it's be those socialist democrats that keep raising the cost of doing business with taxes and regulations. It's why nobody wants to do business in California, which is now the most restrictive state in the union.
But help me understand Drive By - it gets no more socialist/democratic than here in Cali, yet our unemployment is through the roof, our debt is gianormous, and business are leaving by the droves. What gives? Are not socialist democratic policies good? How about Ill., New York, New Jersey? How come the more socialist democratic the worse those states seem to be?
I realize most righties have the attention span of a gnat, however, starting on January 21,2009 the whining began with where are the JOBS Obama?
The Teapublicans ran on a JOB creation platform - sorry if this little libby is the only one holding their feet to the fire!
But then again, I'm all too familiar with the 'double standards' displayed daily from the right wingers!
(Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL) Sorry to shack you out of your Lib dream But it was getting OB Care removed and Dealing with Jobs Jobs Jobs and putting the environmental Wacko back in to their Box's.
So true, Feisty!....The Rupubs double down on their hypocricy and lies.,,
They change their talking points at will and the minions go with the flow, caught up in the tide of lies!
Yup, where are the jobs? Who hires the illegals, and then refuse to use card-check?
Who ships the jobs overseas and then enjoys the tax breaks associated with outsourcing the jobs and the obvious financial gains?
Who, who......
Night-1021999 and Wake up2840
The Dems had two years to do anything that they wanted, and they spent a year of this terrible law. Why weren't you complaining then?
You two really need to come out of the dark. The Republicans coordinated political strategies for Dumb tea baggers to complain about. The President according to the Koch brothers and lobbyist for the healthcare industry would take their freedoms, guns, and Tea Bags away with a "government controlled" insurance. FYI: The millions and millions of dollars spent by the Koch brothers and lobbyist to spread lies were of no avail to our complaints.
Republicans have offered nothing to replace the Affordable Care Act. Ditto jobs
you do know the Koch borthers have think tanks to write anti- government material?
Can someone explain to me why the party who HATES government will do EVERY thing they can to maintain power?
It just doesn't make any sense...
Once again, the Republicans demonstrate their contempt for the American people. Which one of Republican lawmakers will be the first to try to repeal THEIR health insurance first? Nope, as long as they got theirs, forget about Joe and Joan America. Same old thing. They have no interest in anything but continuing their war against the American middle class.
Beverly in Chicago
Night-1021999 and Wake up2840
The Dems had two years to do anything that they wanted, and they spent a year of this terrible law. Why weren't you complaining then?
You two really need to come out of the dark. The Republicans coordinated political strategies for Dumb tea baggers to complain about. The President according to the Koch brothers and lobbyist for the healthcare industry would take their freedoms, guns, and Tea Bags away with a "government controlled" insurance. FYI: The millions and millions of dollars spent by the Koch brothers and lobbyist to spread lies were of no avail to our complaints.
Republicans have offered nothing to replace the Affordable Care Act. Ditto jobs
you do know the Koch borthers have think tanks to write anti- government material?
-----------------------
Beverly in Chicago I Did and so did a lot of US citizen ,You know the ones that Booted the Dems out of power you call them (THE TEA PARTY).
CORRECTION! WE call them tea baggers! It was the name they chose for themselves and we're happy to oblige!
And if you believe that taking control of the House is taking power - you might want to revisit a class on Government... lol
...and the RepubTeaparty want a smaller less intrusive government, but fight tooth and nail to get into elected office? Why?
The small minded Repubs want to be a part of the government, Why? The government that they hate so much!
Why would anyone want to be a part of something that they hate!?
....oh, I know, they want to get inside the government so they can destroy it from within! What a diabolical plan!
You call them TEABAGGERS because you want us all to know that you are at least good for something.
Is that why they call you "JawBone"?.........
IntheMiddle, TX
"You call them TEABAGGERS because....."
.........THEY did it origianly. And it fits. Plain and simple, in da middle.
Hey Spankus- y' like that? I'm a poet, andI don' t know it, but my feet show it......Cuz they're longfellows.
I love it. I wait 2 years for jobs to come from this irresponsible admin. No Jobs
It is 1 month and with only power in one of the two house of congress and the Demos are screaming Where are the jobs. What a bunch of hypocrites...................2012 is coming and I will love to see both houses and the Pres being Repub. Hopefully both houses will have the super majority that the demos had. We will see jobs and growth then. Along with a new health care bill that works for all, not just for obamas buddies and fellow congressonial members that got their bribes.
I suggest you call your local Republican representative or Tea Party Candidate who might be able to help you find gainful employment. I'm sure they have that job genie in a bottle. Just get Mr. Boehner to rub it and presto jobs jobs jobs. Easy as pie. I'm not sure that your 2012 prediction will be granted. There'll be this thing called "an election". Then you'll know what the outcome is. Until then, keep close taps on the jobs genie in a bottle.
To the politically uninformed;
The reason why the republicans are forcing a vote is to put every democratic senator running for election in 2012 on the record in their support. That vote will be used (if it can be) against them by their eventual opponents in the upcoming elections.
The democrats obviously tried to avoid the vote for the same reason.
It's an effective strategy that both parties are very adept at and use whenever they can.
No sh!t! Really?
In the meantime - where are the J O B S the Teapublicans promised if elected?
Kabuki theater to feed their frenzied base, while people are suffering...
Now... I understand where the righties 'interests' lay! lol
Only problem with this tactic is that it clearly shows what is first on the Republican agenda, and it sure ain't jobs. REELECTION ANYONE?
So, after two years of obstructionism tactics the first thing Republicans want to do is score political points in preparation for 2012 elections? Yeah, that really is putting the business of "We The People" first. NOT!
As for the Democrats record on job creation, lets see a list of job creating initiatives that the 111th House passed and were stalled in the 111th Senate by all of those patriotic Republicans.
Hey First Read Moderators, can you post the information on what pieces of job creation legislation the House passed but the Republican's in the Senate refused to let come up for a vote? Let's see in the tally in writing so that we know what the real score is. Afterall, the Republicans ran for office in 2010 on Job Creation didn't they? So when will we see some Job Creation legislation coming from the 112th House? And please don't tell me that repealing HCR, cutting government spending and tax breaks are going to create jobs. Repealing HCR will put recently hired HCR employees out of work. Decreasing government spending, by eliminating departments and programs, will also put people out of work. And we already know that tax breaks don't create jobs, isn't that right President Bush?
Duh!
Really? Wow! I thought they were do this for fun! You mean the GOP has an ulterior motive? Ah... Duh! Man, now that's deep.
This is a perfect example of the exciting exchange of ideas that IS FR...
This is a taking names vote, americans are taking the names of those who vote the repeal bill down. Come 2012 those who voted not to repeal, will find themselves unemployed. Please, vote to keep this insurance bill, the voters want to know who to fire. Also this makes sure everyone in the GOP is on the up and up. Americans hate this health care bill, they want something better. do you want to go to prison for not buying insurance? Please respond with regular liberal talking points............again.......
No not really d, We just aren't stupid like you think we are. We post here because we are political junkies and we don't like to be talked to like we are three years old.
Here is the healthcare bill's description in short definition...
boon·dog·gle [ bï “n dàwg'l ]
red head, the dems had both houses for the last 4 years, and the potus for 2, and we are in the worst depression ever, you tell me where the jobs are, where are the shovel ready jobs, where is the utopia? how many billions did obummer spend to maintain 10% unemployment? 2 years? wow... where are the jobs? well 16,000 new IRS jobs to make sure you buy obamacare, no MD jobs. bunch of TSA jobs, other than that the jobs are in CHINA, with obamas favorite croni business pals. JFK looks like Ron Paul compared to you communists.
If we don't like to be talked to like we're three years old, why would any of us ever subject ourselves to posting on FR?
joe -2768962
"This is a taking names vote, americans are taking the names of those who vote the repeal bill down. Come 2012 those who voted not to repeal, will find themselves unemployed."
But would they be the ones 'cramming down throats', or the ones 'ignoring the will of the people'? (you know- the people. The 60-some % that DON'T want repeal!)
Danger. Your sounding a little pompous.
"worst depression"........we're not even in a recession anymore. Obama can't make business hire Americans. The gutting of the American middle class has driven down demand for products. Just because you are unemployed or suffering economically doesn't mean that the country as a whole is in a depression, or even a recession. $2 TRILLION in cash is sitting on the sidelines waiting for "uncertainty" to be eliminated before they will invest in American jobs.
Don't encourage him Patrick - he's just getting warmed up! lol
All this talk of 'civility' coming from the little guy who threatened to 'knock out' another posters teeth!
"we are in the worst depression ever,..."
Glad we saw this post. Good- now we can honestly discount this fool's comments from here on out.
2 weeks in office, never heard you complaining about the jobs while the last 4 years were democratic control.
Patrick Salt Lake City
Danger. Your sounding a little pompous.
What is my sounding? You're probably confusing me with someone else...cheers!
danger. Thanks for the correction, I do get a little sloppy at times.
Half the people here act like the US is the only country in the world still in bad economic times. The US will lead Europe out of crisis mode. China and India are a different story. So many US jobs shipped over there they avoided the recession. Not to mention China's controlled currency the Repub admin. did nothing about for the 8 years prior to Obama. And who shipped these jobs overseas? Corporate America! And which party does Corporate America primarily fund? For that matter, Didn't corporations make most of the hiring decisions of millions of illegal workers costing even more US jobs?
Only an idiot can't identify the common theme here.
This is one reason why America seems to be falling. Even the American people can not get along. No one agrees on anything. If the repubs and the dems would agree an jobs and healthcare something would happen, so stop disagreeing and use your brains to come up with something that will work for all of us.
rapture: You blame Bush and the Repubs for shipping jobs over seas. HELLO look in the white house. Ilemmlt MR GE, MR ship jobs overseas, and you blame the Repubs. Hypocrite
There are so many loopholes in the crap pile of a health care bill, IT WILL KILL THE MIDDLE CLASS. Loopholes for who, Obama's Corp buddies and the bribes he had to work out to get the mess passed. What a joke your post is.
The illegal issue is double fold. 1)the demos do not want it to stop because of the new Demo leaning voter. The Repubs do not want it stopped because the Corporations get cheap labor. The only one that really wants it stopped are the citizens of the USA and especially the boarder states like AZ. So what is OBUMER doing he sues them for trying to stop the invasion themselves. Hypocrites
Its a set up..... other wise the republican's would be at cocktail hour !
It's simple...take the vote be on record. As more and more Americans see the benefits of this law they will be upset with the Repubs. That's why the Repubs want to get rid of this bill bacause once people use it more and more they won't want it to be repealed. This is just like SS, Medicare and Civil rights and the Repubs were on the wrong side of all of them.
Hell, right now the Dems should be pushing for a vote, because there is not replacement bill being proposed by the Repubs. There will not be a repeal until the supreme court makes a ruling for or against the bill. Until that point the Repubs are just putting on a show. Base first jobs later.
Whaaat? Well it must be bad because the GOP said it is.
You're right rc. They sure have the full court press, no pun intended, going on the ACA repeal. The courts, the House of Reps, the Senate, the media, etc. When people start to see it's benefits well... then the toothpaste is out of the tube.
rc-554943
I agree with you. The Repubs don't have any original ideas; only No to any beneficial law that the Dems have enacted.
The people who will be negatively affected by the repeal of HCR Law are the sick children, young adults up to the age of 26yrs, senior citizens and those with pre-existing conditions. The Repubs have a personal vendetta against these group of people.
No Senator, House Rep. or Rich person will be affected.
As more and more Americans get to understand the benefitsof the health care bill the better chance this backfires on the republicans. As Senator Schumer told the senate republicans today. Thank you for giving the bill a second chance.
Oh. yes. Senator Shroomer.. . The Senator that Beleives the 3 Branches of Govt are the House . the Senate . and the President.
He sure has alot of Creditbility these days.
Educated idiots...
As opposed to someone who thinks they are expert on Russian affairs, because they can see the country from their back porch?
Patrick
But as it is so often pointed out she is a "wannabe" while Sen Schumer is supposed to be a learned patriarch of democracy.
As Opposed to the President who Claims to have been to 57 States? Just saying Patrick. We can do this all day. .
th
57 stops in 48 states. Three years ago......simple transposition error. If you really think that a man who was born and lived in the 50th state doesn't know that it was the last one to join the union you are demonstrating your own stupidity.
Paul,
I understand that you wish to explain it away in this Manner but as usual you would be Wrong.
He said he had visited 57 STATES with 1 more to go. and 2 that his staff wouldn't allow him to Visit.
Nice Try but your Blind following of what people tell you is your Fault. Just go look up any video . and you will find out exactly what he said.
simple transposition..........you really are stupid.
Paul..
No you are just a Blind Follower of this Incompetant. you wil defend his every Word.
Watch the Video .. you of little intelligence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws
So i guess he really Believes there are 60 states
Paul - 75 stops in 84 states?
Steve. yes we could, that is why it was silly of you to start it.
Not disputing that the error was made by Obama. His mistatement is easily explained. The fact that you two actually believe that he thinks that there are 57 American states is quite sad.
Paul,
You did Dispute he said it and tried to Explain it away.. Your Ignorance in claiming he didnt say it. but trying to Explain it away for him (but then when provided proof he did) you want to change the Subject..
Whats Sad is that you tried to Defend it .................. Your Ignorance is what our problem is . You beleive what someone Else tells you . you run with it. . You are a low information type. Like most Liberals.
Comment #7.5. Read it over again until you understand it. Pretty pathetic Steve.
Glad the Dems are showing they are stupid enough to stand behind a bill that will be ruled unconstitutional.
Ya never know, by the time the HCR bill gets to the SCOTUS, Scalia and Thomas and Alito might all be gone.
Because one right wing activist judge ruled against it?
Really? You had better leave the prognosticating to Punxsutawney Phil.
Patrick
Actually two judges have ruled against it and two have ruled for the bill.
The most recent "against" ruling will very liklely be upheld by the 11th circuit so SCOTUS will get its chance to rule on the bill late this year or earlier if it is expedited.
Hey Anna M. did you see Lawrence O'Donnel and Turley talk about severability? Turley flat out took your position. 1. dumb mistake not to include, but 2. they left it out on purpose.
Now of course Larry O. could not accept that (because he gets the implication and effect) and kept going back to incompetence, but like you said and I agree - they did it on purpose and now they are literally SOL. Again, how can you argue against severability if you intentionally left it out?
Funny thing is, this just doesn't register around here. What do you think, another week or so. After Larry, then Rachel and maybe even Big Ed 'splain it to the troops the light bulb will go off?
The Democrats keep telling us its 2 for 2 Against. I call it what it is. 27 States for repeal 2 agaisnt.
Naw - see as Fiesty will tell you, Larry O'Donnell is the smartest socialist around. And he gets it - no severability clause = doom. He just hasn't explained it in simple enough terms yet for Fiesty and crew. He will, just ask Anna Molly. She got it straight away, actually read the whole opinion, and didn't even have a file number to bill the time to.
Steve,
Sorry but governors/AG's don't get to vote in Congress.
5-4 constitutional SCOTUS.
I wonder how long it will be before Vegas actually has a line on this??
How do you figure? Aren't you being a bit premature? Removing the mandate just brings the whole bill closer to a Public Option which is what should have been on offer from the beginning. I'm sure you'll agree that we can't go on paying over the top emergency room healthcare costs. The Public option (much like purchasing subsidized flood insurance) will ease the constant and growing emergency room healthcare we are presently paying for. If the issue is whether the bill is unconstitutional.....ok, I'll go with that if that's what it ends up being although I have some doubts. However, if the issue is "I hate Obama. Obama is the bogey man, Obama is a mean man, Obama is a marxist, Obama is from Mars as the issue.............well, that's just stupid.
Why are they wasting time on this? Regardless of the out come, the President can veto it.
So true, which made Harry's fear of a vote even more difficult to understand
Job1,
You're right.
Job1,
There are two parts to this:
1) Legislative Repeal - Unlikely
2) Declared unconstitutional in it's entirety - Unknown
Job1;
The righties want the lefties on the books for voting against repeal. Those that will not repeal will be gone in 2012. Reason is the bill is a mess. Loop hole city infavor for the obama supports and the bribes he had to make to get Congressmen and Senators to vote for it. It is easier and less expensive to repeal it and get something that works for all of us. The general thought behind the bill is good. It should be loophole free, it need to put some teeth into the illegals get no care provision. One payer system. Merge it with Medicare and provide 100% coverage/care for all. Congress has to use the exact same system as us. A bad bill is not a bill I can support. There should be equal tax paid by all, no exceptions. No hidden taxes, like it has currently a 3.5% tax on home sales. What has a home sale got to do with health Care. That bill is loaded with dillutions and hidden crap throughout. Just to name a few.
Dunp Obama and his health Care bill. Independents for boths repeal...........
It would be nice to see the GOP doing something constructive instead of simply "officially" registering their disagreement with Obama's solutions. If they want to impress me they've got to improve the jobs market. Taking health care away from tens of thousands of poverty stricken kids to prove that they have their "American freedoms" doesn't do much for me (except make them look like a bunch of macho, self centered money grubbers),
Siara
It is not a solution (HCR Bill) until the SCOTUS says it is and it won't be a solution if the House doesn't fund it for a couple of years.
They are trying to undo something they see as a wrong in order to fix it
Nice pictorial for your argument though, the poverty stricken kids and some nice labels.
Robert- they don't need to undo it in order to fix it. They simply need to improve what's there. The impulse to undo it comes from Rush Limbaugh style partisan hostility rather than a sincere concern regarding the problem. I, for one, do not want to go back to 2008.
As Opposed to Personal Responsiblity Oppsition from .. Oh. Obama. we get it..
Hey Steve.... ever have a major car wreck? Have any kids with medical problems? Have any plans for how you'll care for yourself in your old age? Didn't think so.
Siara
Was in a Major Car Accident a Few Years Back. some Idiot Ran a Stop Sign at 60 miles an Hour got t-Boned by another Car. which Sent him Careening into me. Needless to say he was Under Insured. He Killed his Passenger a 21 year old Girl, Critical Injured the Driver of the Vehical that Hit him. and Sent me to the Hospital where i woke up 6 Hours Later without a Memory of what actually Happened..
My Daughter at the Age of 11 underwent Major Surgery for chairi malformation.. For which my wife and i both had Medical Insurance that we Paid for to cover the Expense's. Its called being Responsible.
and yes. I planned for my Future along time ago. its what Responsible people do..
Steve - stop disabusing the libbies of their victim meme. They no likey responsibility, cause if everyone was responsible for themeslves, then no "victims" of EVVILL insurance/corporations/republican/teabaggers.
Ok Siara Delyn, you asked the man, no uyou called him out and he responded. Do you have any response? I'm guessing that's it for dear Siara.
And here's a little free legal advice to all - get the maximum coverage you can, particularly for uninsured motorists. It is essential in the So. West where so many illegals are driving around.
Robert-
If it passes all tests the Republican controlled House will fund it sooner rather than later, otherwise they risk being blamed for a government shutdown just in time for the 2012 elections. Obama has some executive powers for limited funding to keep it moving ahead in the meantime.
So Steve, we've got 50,000,000 irresponsible people out there? Lost your job? Irresponsible. Enjoying a minimum wage career? Irresponsible. How is it living in that overcrowded world of one. How do you like paying for the 50,000,000+ who are enjoying that over the top cost emergency room healthcare? Don't you think we absolutely need to address the problem as it doesn't appear to be going away? I'm pretty sure you'll agree that a Public Option along the lines of Federal subsidized flood insurance is the way forward. We all know there's an elephant in the middle of the room. We need to deal with it.
One big question; "Why don't the Republicans want middle class America to have the same great health care benefits that they have?????
tstorm
You know there are a lot of Republicans in what you term the middle class right you likely over generalize when you state that all Republicans have great health insurance, just isn't so
I am a middle class american and a republican. I want the the rest of American's to have health care like I do. But to do that you need to stop sucking on the welfare tit,get a job, and pay for health care just like the rest of us.
It's called a "mandate"
Tstorm, your statement shows a bit of education is needed. The HC mandates us to buy insurance to cover our health care costs. There are as many different plans out there as there are people. No 2 plans are the same. This bill does nothing to ensure we have the same coverage as anybody else, only that we have insurance.........
Instead of empty gestures the gop & their trashbaggers should work on crafting a better bill. This is a golden opportunity for both parties to demonstrate what can be done if they are willing to listen and hammer out a compromise.
@Caradjt: "Give the Repubs at least that long (2 years)""......
Why should we give them any time at all? They campaigned on creating new jobs. All they have done the past 2 years is bash Obama every chance they get and complain about his efforts to create new jobs. They have had 2 years to think about how they would create new jobs. They need to immediately stop their nonsense about health care, about abortions, about redefining the definition of "rape," and do something about creating jobs.
Hey Fiesty, just so ya know. 12 American citizens are murdered by illegal aliens every day and the yearly casualty list of names far exceeds the list of war causalities since 2003. That is a fact. The fact I can't find is something stating that 12 American citizens are dying every day because they couldn't get medical help. So why exactly was HCR so important to you and this administration as to take up 2 years and all this effort and immigration reform means nothing to you and this administration? Kinda brings your unbelievable hypocrisy and selfishness out into the light, don't it?
Link to that amazing fact please...12 American citizens murdered by Illegal aliens EVERY DAY! FOUR THOUSAND THREE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY MURDERS PER YEAR?
That's just incredible, and I do mean incredible...
Google it. I was pretty amazed also.
Guess you guys don't want to go there. Can't say as I blame ya.
And so I did...
Five year old claim from one senator's press release repeated endlessly without any documentation whatsoever;
Representative Steve King 5th Congressional District of Iowa on May 1st 2006
Here's the claim;
What would that May 1st look like without illegal immigration? There would be no one to smuggle across our southern border the heroin, marijuana, cocaine, and methamphetamines that plague the United States, reducing the U.S. supply of meth that day by 80%. The lives of 12 U.S. citizens would be saved who otherwise die a violent death at the hands of murderous illegal aliens each day. Another 13 Americans would survive who are otherwise killed each day by uninsured drunk driving illegals. Our hospital emergency rooms would not be flooded with everything from gunshot wounds, to anchor babies, to imported diseases to hangnails, giving American citizens the day off from standing in line behind illegals. Eight American children would not suffer the horror as a victim of a sex crime.
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/ia05_king/col_20060505_bite.html
And here is Steven Fara of something called "World Net Daily" reporting/repeating this "story" in 2011;
WASHINGTON – While the military "quagmire" in Iraq was said to tip the scales of power in the U.S. midterm elections, most Americans have no idea more of their fellow citizens – men, women and children – were murdered this year by illegal aliens than the combined death toll of U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan since those military campaigns began.
Though no federal statistics are kept on murders or any other crimes committed by illegal aliens, a number of groups have produced estimates based on data collected from prisons, news reports and independent research.
The "independent research" is from the same site and purely anecdotal.
Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens, according to statistics released by http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/ia05_king/col_20060505_bite.html">Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa. If those numbers are correct, it translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by illegal aliens. That's 21,900 since Sept. 11, 2001.
17,030=total homicides usa in 2006 so 26% were committed by illegals, according to the "statistics"...
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
Like is said it's incredible, as in NOT credible.
Go to a website you trust like maybe the public access FBI statistical data website and find refuting evidence. You won't because it's true. BTW, voting for your own post like that is tacky.
dangerfield:
I guess because that jackazz site you liberals cite (MediaMatters) didn't tell you it was true; it must be a lie.
You GOTTA believe!.....and that's all you have...Thanks for playing! And remember that if "the enemy of my enemy is my friend...you have a new one, and on the left(!) on this thread!
Feeling like a little "Steelers Wheel" right now, if you know the song...
ITM,
I'm a liberal to you and a conservative to FR and crew...make up your minds already!
I'm not askin ya to believe anything. Go to INS, FBI, NCS or any website and find stats and #s that refute it or even that don't support it. You wont because if you just assume that illegal alien murder rates are the same as citizens then the # would be 8 people every day. If you extrapolate the # of illegal alien violent offenders incarcerated against total # of illegal aliens, the # increases to 12. They deliberately don't track it as it's own stat because of the political dynamite that it is. I do not post until I am reasonably sure of the info.
Forget that man, just call up the LAPD. Inquire as to MS-13. MI Hermoso es una District Attorney. ES muy mal.
And don't foprget about all the drunk driving. It seems drunk driving isn't such a big deal in Mexico. And Siara save yourself the trouble I was hit by an illegal - fake license, soc. security number, no registration and of course no insurance. It was a real blast. But they really are all honest, hard working folk.
If the number isn't tracked, how did anyone arrive at this bogus number?
Paul, I did the research for ya and explained it in the post above. I am glad you said bogus. That would indicate if you find out it is true you will be outraged as I was.
Dangerfield/Jed,
And why did the illegals come here in the first place bringing their entire families in some cases? Because they knew companies would hire them for their cheap labor. Which party does big business generally support and provide funding? The Grand old Party, that's who.
Look at who is creating the enticement for illegals to risk coming here and some eventually commit the violent crimes you referenced.
rapture2010, how do you sleep with all that self deception, rationalization, justification and plain old BS goin on in your life. The dots you connected in your mind have no bearing in reality. I guess you know that 7 of the top 10 wealthiest senators and congressmen are democrats and very heavily invested in big business? I mean invested to the hilt with big business. Kinda blows your theory out of the water.
jed233
Paul, I did the research for ya and explained it in the post above....really? Where?
and may I quote you?
"self deception, rationalization, justification and plain old BS goin on in your life. The dots you connected in your mind have no bearing in reality."
So apropos your claim and entire body of "research"...look up the numbers that can't be found/substantiated, they PROVE your or actually Steve King's (Hey, wait, not THAT Steven KING? Ma=ybde it's actually the plot for a horror movie?) "Single Mexican Theory"...
It's been fun!...
dg, your ignorant lib 101 deflection tactics are showing. If you can't go to the INS website or the FBI website and verify the #, it's because you couldn't find your own ass with both hands. Product of the modern public school system, I presume.
Jed,
You missed the point entirely. I never refer to an individual congress member's personal wealth or investments. The argument is entirely about lobbying and campaign contributions. Look at it again.
And 7 out of 535 congress members practically rounds to zero! You'll need some much stronger quantitative arguments here.
More wasted time by the GOP... November 2012 on their minds when they should be working with the Democrats and President for jobs like the American people want. Unbelievable...
Should I bother pointing out that the Democrats and the President are just as fixated on 2012 as the GOP?
We don't exactly get many years of attempted leadership out of elected officials these days given the ravenous beast that is the 24-hour news cycle.
Kinda missed that 187k long term jobs thingy this mornin didn't ya? I know, just a coinkidink. Obobo really did it.
Boehner and McConnell promised the insurance companies that there would be no health care reform. They are just trying to keep that promise. And Republicans creating jobs? That would be something new. Unless you consider creating jobs in India or China.
yawn.
Good night sleep tight.
@Robert in Ohio: "You know there are a lot of Republicans in.....over generalize when you state that all Republicans have great health insurance."
I believe Tstorm is talking about Republicans in Congress. I agree with his/her comment. If Republicans are so hell-bent on repealing Obama's health care plan, then they need to drop their "government-run" health care and purchase it themselves. They make good money not only from their Congressional jobs; they in all likelihood make good money from other sources. Why shouldn't they pay for their own health care? Make their staffs purchase their own health care as well. I pay for my own health insurance and make far less money than these clowns do.
This past Sunday, Chris Wallace asked John Boehner about his smoking habit. Boehner basically said, "yes, I smoke....." but leave me alone. That's fine, except when it comes to if Boehner gets a serious lung disease or other disease related to smoking. Then his "government-run" health care would pay to take care of him. Where would Boehner's "personal responsibility" be in this case?
I do not want one single penny of my tax dollars going to pay for any Republican's health care. And while they are at it, if they want to get rid of Social Security, all of these Republicans need to immediately drop their government pensions and put their money where their mouths are....in the stock market.
(I do not want one single penny of my tax dollars going to pay for republicans health care.) None of that 1.57? Not one single penny? I am sure the Repubs are shaking in their boots missing that kind of funding.
They want to continue using the Emergency Room as a free doctor's office and have the rest of the country foot the bill via taxes taken out of our paychecks. Of course they don't want the system changed. Right now they know exactly how to play the system.
Zermatt1986 - You do know the President smokes, right? Also, what's good for the Republicans should also be good for the Democrats. Both of them should have the same type of coverage that the American people.
Let's face it - the only reason the REPUBS are fighting anything the President does is because they lost the presidency. For two years there has been intense stalling and inhibiting of any of the presidents attepted advancements. The REPUBS should remember that they were sent to Washington to legislate jobs, jobs and jobs.
I do find it very funny that the Demos are complaining about a job bill when they have not accomplished one in 2 years that works. Shovel ready LOL. 1 month verses 2 years and a month. Hummmm. I guess the demos are getting a bit tired of all the waiting, LOL. The senators that vote to repeal will be with us come 2012 and beyond.
At least our economy is no longer in free fall the way GW Bush left it.
Amen. Thank goodness we have Obama as President and not a repub. Bush left a mess behind..
I've never known people who complain when things are getting better. Go figure...
Toyota
And Obama seems to want to keep that mess rather than fixing anything about the economy
Come-on it has been two years Bush is no longer a factor if Obama is indeed the answer then let's get it on and have him and the Democrats and the Republicans get togteher and fix things.
Or we can just sit and siffer and blame Bush for a few more months
I have a fixed income so I am ok with that, but it is surely hurting some folks
toyota3, Are you the one that killed 52 American citizens with sneaky deadly secret over up's. ??????
I have a 2yr old with cerebral palsy, He gets SSI and Medicare, due to his disability.Without that assistance I would not be able to get him the proper care he needs. I work hard, and provide for my household on my own, working 9-5, taking care of my two kids, and going to school. It will cost an extra 400 a month to insure my son on my employee plan, if he's even excepted with his pre-existing condition. The money i make just doesn't stretch that far.Do any of you have an answer for that? Are you going to tell me my son doesn't deserve good affordable healthcare. Or are you going to tell me I don't work hard enough.?
Their answer is "tough ****". money-grubbing little creeps that they are. A huge part of the country doesn't feel that way, of course. These are the folks who spend the entire day listening to Hate Radio.
According to a right winger earlier today - you have the Emergency Room & 'Charity Hospitals' what ever the hell those are!
Everyone in this country should be entitled to good affordable healthcare! PERIOD!
I wish you & your son the best!
We are the only modern country in which disabled people do not get health treatment automatically, simply because they are our fellow citizens.
I guess to some, it's my fault if medical bills cause me to become completely unable to maintain my home and result to the system. Which because I work, I probably wont qualify for aide anyway. There has to be a better way. Not everyone needing this bill is welfare dependent. There are a majority out here who work and don't mind working.
The gop & their trashbagger buddies has a way of getting nothing done, what a lost opportunity to show the American people as a whole what can be accomplished when cooler and wiser heads prevail.
Ok, cry cry cry jobs bill. And just what is the solution for creating a jobs bill? Does anybody have the silver bullet? Face it, all our jobs went overseas along with our technology. Would new technology in U.S. be the answer? How would we keep this new technology and jobs in the U.S.? New factory's, production, the whole nine yards. Do we need to cap upper management millions in bonus's and share more with actual hard workers? Who has the answer?
"Do we need to cap upper management millions in bonus's and share more with actual hard workers?"
Yup.
So raise your hand if you think maybe Siara is not in upper management, but is a very hard worker.
Spankyyour a-ss
What the fu-ck kind of solution is that Kornball. I'll tell you, you don't have a clue or an answer.
gop fails on jobs, when a reporter asked why jobs, economy & deficit weren't the main focus bonehead & mich said we will look at that in 2012. Smoke & Mirrors.