"Reid previewed that battle plan"

_____________________________________________________________________________________

LOL who are Reid's "targets?" so much for "kinder and gentler rhetoric" called for by President Obama

Ah.... but HCR will help to create jobs (despite the outdated infomation Republicans cite) and strengthen the middle class!

Republicans don't cite information. They have talking points.

My friend got a job in the health care sector as a result of HCR.

The Republicans denounced Stimulus and their answer for job creation? More tax cuts! LOL! Please.

Has anyone in the Senate actually read it yet? Has Obama? Has anyone outside of the Authors? Who are the Authors? Does anyone actually Know? And how does a bill pass with-out anyone voting on it that has read it? And you wonder what is wrong with the Federal Government.

If you replace "grandstanding" with the word "legislating", then yes, Ried's quote would apply to last summer's HCR. An important distinction between what people hate about congress and what congress is actually sent to Washington to do... but it was partisan.

Who are the Authors?

The Apollo Alliance wrote the bill and of course you will remember Nancy said, "we have to pass it to find out whats in it". Well we found out whats in it and now its time for the Ipecac.

I thought it was their (politicians) job to fix healthcare not fight about it . All they accomplish is their own job security.

DWF

Who are the Authors?

The Apollo Alliance wrote the bill and of course you will remember Nancy said, "we have to pass it to find out whats in it". Well we found out whats in it and now its time for the Ipecac.

Ipecac. lol. Is that covered under ObamaCare.

Pjam09,

The link you touted as the SBA (Small business Administration) is NOT the SBA. It's actually the SBABG (Small Businesses Against Big Government) Pretty slick there though....

The sites pretty slick too. They label themselves as "Non-Partisan" then go on to rail about "Obamacare" every other word.

BTW: don't waste your time on the site, it's just GOP Talking pionts.

Healthcare reform is creating jobs. Just look at all the new republican congressmen.

iheardthisbefore...

I have...two years ago. Well starting four years ago, but who's counting. ;)

Danp...LOL...that is too funny. LMAO!!

After reading all the replies I believe the U.S. population is so polarized to one side or the other that they is no middle ground and so Congress gets no where because as the leadership changes they just waste time changing what was put in place by the last leadership. Tell you what, lets divide the country in half, one half liberal, one half conservative, then after 10 years see which side is better off.

CMcCoy-the public option was taken out of the bill to get some democrates to vote for it. No Republican would have voted for that. If they would have let the Republicans have any say in it, there would have been reform in lawsuits and several other things. Lets face it, they had to bribe their own senators to pass this bill, so you can see why Reid won't allow a vote on it.

Jess -

The dems can cry all they want about what the GOP is doing, but the simple truth is that they brought it on themselves by shutting the GOP out of the process (especially with the HCR bill) in the first two years of Obama's term...

I find it hilarious that since this past election, all the Repub's can say is "The American people have spoken...", but when they talk about the LAST two years, we Dems were "shutting out the GOP...", "shoving stuff down the peoples' throat,..." etc.

We Democrats were NOT shutting out the GOP for the last two years -- the voters did that for us in '06 and '08 !!! Y'all re-elected THE WORST prez in US history, and then got spanked for it two elections in a row !

Yes, you now have the filibuster back ... yes, you now have the majority in the LEAST IMPORTANT of the three houses of the Federal legislative process (counting the most important house - the White one!) And yes, the founders intended gridlock...

... unless one party SCREWS THE POOCH so friggin' badly, that the voters put enough of a different party in place to do EXACTLY what we did for the last two years. Get over the fact that you'll NEVER enjoy that type of majority again, and get over the fact that we did, and WILL again... or just continue to die off, like the public-policy dinosaurs that you are...

Republican governing plan:

We won't move forward on anything until we're allowed to move backwards on health care.

JonboGreen

We almost agree... Bush was the second worst in history.

Funny how the voters meant so much to you in 06 and 08 elections, but I don't see you calling out the 2010 election as being an important statement on where the voters are. I guess the only way to out do the republicans was to elect an even worse president, huh? Love the thought process... What the repubs did in 02 and 04 was soooo bad that now we have to out do them. Well... Bravo...as you dems like to quote..."Mission Accomplished." lol

I'm a putz? You're right. I'm an independent, that much to my shame, is willing to admit that I was sucked into the Obama-mania and I voted for that terd. I didn't make that same mistake in 2010 and apparently there are tens of millions of other voters that feel the same way. What were the exit polls for independents? Something like 65% or so voting against the dems? What happened? In 08 they were all for Obama...about the same percentage.

Perhaps you need to look into the mirror if you are looking for a mindless sheep. I have the ability to think for myself as I don't align myself with ANY political party. I look at both sides of the discussion and decide for myself....unlike people like you that mindlessly tow the party line. Good luck with that...putz.

McConnell's plan could easily backfire on him and the GOP. With support for the Affordable Health Care act gradually increasing day by day even among main street Republicans the GOP could shoot themselves in the foot with such a maneuver.

Certainly it could shore up support among supporters but only among those who already stand with the GOP nearly 100% of the time and against the Dems 100%. Among independents and 'soft' Republicans though, particularly those who begin to realize what they could lose with repeal the GOP in the Senate could be treading on dangerous ground.

Beyond that the very fact that they are pushing for repeal with no replacement plan in place to offer makes their "leadership" look rudderless.

But go for it Mitch, between running this fools errand and the divisions caused by the Tea Party that continue to grow the end result will be interesting to watch.

Kennyb,

Tell you what, lets divide the country in half, one half liberal, one half conservative, then after 10 years see which side is better off.

Good point, but you don't have to.

Just look at California where the liberal agenda has not produced ONE NEW NET JOB in the last decade and Texas where half the jobs created the last few years in the ENTIRE COUNTRY have been created.

Business? ABC (Anywhere But California) BTW - Texas has the most Fortune companies in the country now.

The middle class mantra that libbies are always crying about? The middle class is moving out of California at a rate of 100,000-150,000 a year - bunch going to Texas. On and On ...

Jess:

I take it, it's not enough to put up a fact-free post. You have to throw in a few outright lies as well.

No one - absolutely no one - PROMISED an 8% unemployment rate. It was a nice target, but it sure as hell wasn't a promise. You could check that out, but since facts are irrelevant for folks like you, why bother?

It is not the job of government to create jobs. Isn't that a verse in the Republican mantra? Every time a public works program comes along, when someone suggests working on our declining infrastructure, you and yours scream like stuck pigs. So, what HAS happened - there's empirical proof of this; you could check it out, but you won't - is that legislation has been proposed and was passed in a Democratically-controlled House that would have provided incentives for businesses, but Mitch and company held it up or stopped it outright.

No one gave anything to the U.A.W. Again, you could do your homework - NO, that doesn't mean listening to Beck and Limbaugh - and you will find that indeed the U.A.W. actually gave back. As far as the bondholders taking a hit.....what the hell is your point? That's how it works. That's capitalism. That's how capitalism works. Are you and yours just kidding with your constant sniveling about "free markets"?

Yes, the Democrats have now been dealing with jobs. After Health Care Reform was passed, they moved on to that task. Perhaps you've noticed, they no longer control the House. That's Boehner's bailiwick, bub.

Stop with the talking points. That crap may work for unthinking reactionaries, but it sure doesn't work for those of us who know how to separate fact from fiction.

As for your quote, "Didn't think so," well, if you were interested in accuracy you could have stopped at, "Didn't think."

Well lets see here.... why don't they want to be on the record? Oh yeah cause the American people don't want this junk. So these elected officials aren't representing their districts? Is that what I'm hearing?

If they are representing their districts... then they should be more than happy to go on the record. True colors showing, get rid of this thing.

bob-1805084

Good points buddy, I live in Texas too. So you are right with everything you've said. But, you need to go check our State's debt, I think we are in trouble now.

On other people points. Obamacare is going to be then end of us. Have you read the entire 2000 pages? The government agency that looks at each bill Congress is going to pass, and reports a $$$ number back to them on the cost or profit from it. That agency (don't remember what they are called) COULD NOT come up with a COST because they see no end to it, they advised against this bill.

Don't think people realize there was alot of junk added to the bill. There were some new taxes in the bill that have nothing to do with healthcare, go google.

Also, majority of Americans still don't want this bill. They want repeal. That was the main promise of the Republicans and Tea Party. So if you come back and say the majority WANT this bill, why did so many of the RIGHT side win this past election?

Plus, 27 States are now apart of the lawsuit against the Federal Government stating this bill is unconstitutional, which it is.

The Supreme Court, many of the judges have already stated it is as well, both the right and left side judges. Go research each one of theirs remarks.

It costs $337,000 per hour to run the House. Probably somewhere close for the Senate. HEY GOP - STOP WASTING MY TAX MONEY! I already paid for this once.

As if there weren't any REAL problems in this country that you need to work on.

I am part of the American people, Mixman, and I want this "Junk."

Speak for yourself....

The "government agency that looks at each bill Congress is going to pass, and reports a $$$ number back to to them" is the CBO. And in case you missed it, they DID come up with a number:

Repealing health care reform will add $230 billion to the deficit over the next decade, leave 32 million fewer people with insurance and lead to higher costs for those who are covered, the Congressional Budget Office said in a letter to House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) Thursday.

I think people forget that HCR is also doing it's job to eliminate jobs. As much as people like to hate on the insurance industries, they employ thousands of people. So, with the passing of HCR, a large portion of those jobs are under threat. Additionally, small businesses are under threat as well - being strong armed into paying into the HC system to provide coverage to their employees or face steep penalties. This deters employers from growing and hiring, thus contributing to the unemployment rates.

What the government doesn't tell you is that there are resources out there for a majority of Americans - many of these resources are government funded - to provide low-cost or no-cost healthcare to the uninsured. Healthcare should not be free because it is not free - it costs to run hospitals and physicians offices - and I assure you that HCR will cost you in the end. It will cost you in taxes and in quality healthcare. If you think it's tough to get that referral now, or obtain that approval from your HMO, then wait until HCR is fully implemented. And just try to avoid opting in; those fines are pretty.

Outside of all of that, my big question is... Why do you want the government telling you what to do with your personal health? Forcing you to buy into something you may not want? A vast number of American's don't want this, so why is it being pushed through? Democrat or Republican, HCR is a perfect example of government abusing their control.

Thanks RealAmericansFirst!

So can you tell me how I can pay $23 billion dollars a year, but at the same time pay the extra money for healthcare I already have at a low cost, that is now being driven higher?

These comments sound like a robot repeating GOP talking points. You may not remember (or maybe didn't notice in the first place) that part of the problem with our economy is that health insurance costs are putting a strain on our businesses. If you take the long view rather than the shortsighted one, part of the reason we needed health insurance reform in the first place was to reduce the strain on the economy long term. I don't know why anyone would want to repeal the whole bill before even giving it a chance to work. It seems that our congress has devolved into a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing. Our congress acts like kids in a sandbox while the country falls apart around them and they don't even notice because they are too busy squabbling with each other. It's pretty disgusting.

David Walker...

FACT: Obama's Stimulus Plan - Failing by Its Own Measure: http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1910208,00.html#ixzz1Bbhpr3fX

"It is not the job of government to create jobs." - Agreed

FACT: I think you are referring to the Small Business Jobs Act of 2010, but I'm not sure because you failed again to provide "empirical" statements....lol. The bill was passed and signed into law as of Sept 27 2010. Didn't he take office in 2009? If I'm not mistaken...weren't jobs bad then too? I guess almost 2 years is okay to wait for people that need jobs...whatever. http://www.sba.gov/content/small-business-jobs-act-2010

FACT: "Under the Obama administration's plan, bondholders who were owed far more than the United Auto Workers (UAW) trade union received substantially less than the union did. In the Chrysler case, the UAW was awarded ownership of the company." - http://www.forbes.com/2009/09/30/end-tarp-bailout-congressman-opinions-contibutors-jeb-hensarling.html

" After Health Care Reform was passed, they moved on to that task." - Really? Like what? Waiting until they got killed in the mid-terms to come sniveling back to the GOP to extend and even go farther than the Bush tax cuts? Why not sooner? I thought EVERYTHING Bush did was evil....and yet...they're all for it. Just like Gitmo, huh? What exactly have they done since HCR that is specifically jobs related? Oh...and you can't use my research on the Small Business Act. Do your own research for once.

So now that I've dropped fact after fact, what say you? "talking points"? Are you trying to dismiss truth by deflecting? Tell me it ain't so... Besides...whos to say what is fact or fiction in the mind of people like you that only listen to one side of the discussion. It's okay because you honestly don't know any better. :)

As far as your conclusion ending with a personal attack, that's what people do that have no substance to stand on. Try again, lil buddy. hahahaha!!!!

Anyway, I'd love to stay and chat but I need to go and get back to work. Someone has to go earn your benefits. ttyl

I don't know what the big deal is. If Obamacare is so great why wouldn't every Senator be standing up and shouting "Yes lets vote on keeping this magnificient piece of Legislation again so we can prove to the public we stand behind it and want it to suceed". Its not like the repeal will pass the Dem controlled Senate. Even if by some slim chance it did, Barack would veto its repeal. After all, it is a masterpiece, right?

By not bringing it to the floor isn't Reid saying" I know it sucks and I'm afraid it will be repealed now that people have read it? What is he afraid of? Wouldn't he like to have the no repeal vote so it could stick it to the repubs? Reids gotta man up...

Even if Harry Reid doesn't recognize it, I hope others will recognize that the vote on repeal was a bipartisan vote! If the bill is as good as he says it is, he shouldn't be afraid to allow the vote to happen, knowing it will be defeated. But the fact that he is refusing so far to give it a chance, even after fellow democrats have voted in favor of it, speaks very poorly of him. If the procedural rule is used to force the vote and it succeeds, this would again demonstrate democrats in favor of at least having the vote, showing that Harry is the true obstructionist, not the republicans and not the democrats. Furthermore, with President Obama promising to veto the legislation already if it arrives at his desk is a statement that he will ignore any bipartisan work (since that's what it would require to get to his desk). Therefore, the true party of "no" that we ought to be concerned with is not the republicans nor the democrats; it is the team of Harry Reid and President Obama, already refusing to hear any sort of considerations from either side of the aisle, in order to push their own personal agenda. With the promises they've made, they've come to represent no one's interests but their own.

Look, with its ability to lower the deficit we cannot afford to repeal health care. In fact, if we add everyone in the country, there should be no annual deficit at all. Now if we offer this to other countries, we will be lowering the national debt. Problem solved. Your welcome.

The Republican's were greatly involved in the HCR bill that was finally passed. They presented hundreds of amendments and many of them were incorporated into this bill. In fact, the same amendments that are now being criticised by the right, were presented by the right.

They are hypocrites and the point of allowing this to go to the Senate floor is the TIME WASTING FACTOR in order for the GOP to garner more talking points for the 2012 elections.

Don't we have more important issues to support???

The expanded health care system, to cover everyone, should create millions of un-outsourceable JOBS.

It's criminal for the supposed "Greatest Country on Earth" to not have adequate health care for ALL of it's citizens.

I find it interesting that the GOP and the American people who support this GOP claptrap are really OK with ALL OF US paying for each and every on of them in Congress to have HEALTH CARE, while these SOB's fight tooth and nail to withhold HC from the people who pay for theirs!! I know someone who supports the GOP claptrap will scream and holler and TROLL it up about my comment, but what I am trying to understand is why is it ok for them to have HC and a life long pension, but NOT ok for the American people to be covered? Those who vote against HC in the Congress, should give up theirs that the American taxpayers pay for.

HCR was a major victory of the American nation, one that CREATES jobs rahter than "killing" jobs, one that CHOPS the defecit, rather than adding to it, and one that has already begun delivering important benefits to all Americans.

The Senate Republican tactics are taken straight from the "politics of disaffection" practiced by the Irish Republican Army's Members of Parliament in the early 1900's. Then they also use procedure to prevent the Parliament from getting its work done, tried every possible obstructionist trick they could find, and snarled government operations for years.

Jess - First, truly sorry - you read my post before the 3 minute edit period was over - edited the word 'putz' out on my first re-read, because you're right. Sorry. And kudos on being an independent - sorry for pigeon-holing too.

I am sorry also, to hear you're not part of the (what is it now - 54, 55%?) of Americans that think Obama's doing a pretty darn good job. (Hint as to why this scares the right: He only got fifty-THREE percent of the vote!)

See, here's why Obama is qualified to be President, and people with an 88 IQ (GW, for instance...I'd say Palin, but 88's generous for her)...are not. Because a four letter bumper sticker "JOBS" is a bumper sticker, not a Jobs policy. Obama's started with the stimulus - he was on the jobs-front from day 1 (can you say 20%+ unemployment without it!) - but that doesn't make a good bumper sticker! Again, witness the difference between governing and politick-ing. (He's great at politick-ing, but if the fact that he only does it for 3 months in a non-prez cycle means he loses the house, he's obviously ok with that - he's busy governing.) Something tells me he won't be so non-chalant in '12. Just a hunch.

I totally agree, but you raise an interesting point and comparison with respect to the IRA and their tactics in the early 1900's. I am really trying to understand WHY people are so ok with voting against their own self-interests. I mean, we as a people are giving each one of them money for HC.....

So the Community Collaspted my Comment even though I did not BREAK ANY RULES! MAYBE MSNBC IS A PARTISAN HACK!

All of the evidence shows that repealing this bill would cost the USA Hundreds of Billions of Dollars. Repealing this Bill would threaten or end Insurance coverage for over 129 Million Americans.

Repealing this Bill IS BAD FOR AVERAGE AMERICANS!!!!!

The Dems need to grow a spine and attack this issue with huge amounts of press!

Where do the republicans on this board keep getting this idea that a majority of Americans want repeal? The last poll done shows that something like 50% want to repeal the bill but that 13% of that 50 want to replace it with something that goes farther including a public option. To me that means that less than 40% of the population would rather this had not passed at all. That seems to NOT be a majority. I'd like to know to what those quoting that line are referring?

Jess?, American for Israel? , Bob?

And to know what the country would look like under the split scenerio you just have to look at the values associated with federal tax dollars which are passed among states. Red states collect more money from the federal government, BY FAR, than blue states. The blue states support the red states. That's a fact based upon the numbers.

RealAmerican, did you know that the current "non-partisan" CBO director is appointed to a four year term by...wait for it...the speaker of the House (Nancy Pelosi) and the President of the Senate (Joe Biden). Tell us though, how can repealing a bill that is not even fully in effect yet cost us $200+ billion?

If you're all so sure that the bill is unconstitutional, why are we paying millions of dollars for the GOP to debate it all over again? Just get on to creating jobs and let the court take care of it, right?

Disgusting but revealing in the depth of depravity of the republican gaggle. They are going to need to evaluate the level at which the masses and their 'protection' might just have a loyalty issue one day!

Giving everything to Corps and nothing to the people is not producing trust or loyalty or ratings...Their buddies the bagger crazies might just turn on them soon..Oh, they already are -aren't they!

Another example of Gop largess that our Insurance Cos are supplying at the American Taxpayers expense:

GOP sponsored single-payer guaranteed Health Care in Iraq, but not in U.S....Article 31 of the Iraqi Constitution, drafted by your right-wing Bushies in 2005 and ratified by the Iraqi people, includes state-guaranteed (single payer) healthcare for life for every Iraqi citizen

Great link for those who like to see the problem in graphics:

Health Care Costs per Capita

Not only do we pay the HIGHEST PER CAPITA health care costs in the world, we're falling behind nations that provide universal health care at a lower cost:

CDC report: US life expectancy drops for first time in 25 years

Life expectancy in the U.S. decreased from 2007 to 2008, according to a report released Friday by the Centers for Disease Control. Life expectancy in the U.S. increased dramatically from 1960 to 2000. The latest decrease, the first in 25 years, leads some medical experts to suspect a downward trend.

We're now 36th in the world and dropping as other countries (WITH universal health care) have improved their life expectancies.

Lagging U.S. life expectancy ranking blamed on health system

The United States is falling sharply behind in world wide rankings of life expectancy, and shortcomings in the U.S. health care system may be to blame, scientists say.

Researchers studying the issue concluded that obesity, smoking, traffic accidents and homicide can't account for the drop—"leading us to believe that failings in the U.S. health care system, such as costly specialized and fragmented care, are likely playing a large role," said Peter Muennig of Columbia Univers ity, lead author of the study.

In the research, which appears in the Oct. 7 online issue of the journal Health Affairs, Muennig and co-author Sherry Glied of Columbia cite the growing lack of health insur­ance among Americans as a possible culprit.

The study looked at health spending, behavioral risk factors like obesity and smoking, and survival rates for men and women ages 45 and 65 in the U.S. and 12 other industrial­ized nations.

While the U.S. has achieved gains in 15-year survival rates decade by decade from 1975 to 2005, the researchers found that other countries enjoyed even greater gains. So the U.S. slipped in the ranking, even as per capita health care spending rose at more than twice the rate of the other countries.

Around 1950, the United States ranked 5th for life expectancy at birth for women and 10th for men among developed countries

Is this any way to run the richest nation on earth? Why would anybody fight to stay where we are???

Having read through this first thread I have to wonder if those of you of the liberal persuasion have a list of talking points to pull from?

Nearly every comment in support of Obamacare falls into 3 or 4 topics - and none of them an original thought - that is, of course, when you aren't belittling the opposition.

Or do you share a hive mind? That could be it, maybe you think you're smarter than everyone else because you think that having a group consciousness allows you to pull ideas from the one intelligent person in the group.

DWF:

... you will remember Nancy said, "we have to pass it to find out whats in it". Well we found out whats in it and now its time for the Ipecac.

Yet another example of right wingnuts using the Big Lie technique. That's NOT what Pelosi said. What she really said was that Congress has "to pass the bill so YOU can find out what's in it, away from the fog of controversy." Big difference. What she meant was that she assumed that the Republicans would stop their lying abou the bill once it was enacted into law, and the PUBLIC could then see what was in it rather than the Republicans' lies about what was in it. Sadly, she was wrong. The Republicans are STILL lying about it.

Still waiting for any Republican to answer my questions, but you are all too afraid. This includes you, Jess . . . even though you claim to be an independent you are so far down the extreme right wing that you are actually typing with a gun in your hand and a confederate flag on your wall.

So here is the question for all you smart Republicans . . .

Why do you want to use YOUR tax dollars to pay for the medical expenses of people who are too lazy to get their own insurance?

That's right, you are paying the medical bill for all those deadbeats. If someone can not afford medical insurance, and does not make enough money, guess who pays their bill? Ding ding ding That's right . . . YOU DO.

This is typical Republican hypocrisy. You absolutely hate using your tax dollars to pay for welfare, because they are just lazy deadbeats, right? You want to keep your hard earned money to yourself. Fair enough. But, when it comes to healthcare, you DO NOT want those same deadbeats to pay for their own insurance. For some insane reason, which is beyond any of us, you LOVE to pay the medical bills for those without insurance. I thought you supported "personal responsibility" . . . but you do not want personal responsibility for medical insurance. Why can't you make up your mind? Personally I do not want my money going to deadbeats on welfare OR deadbeats who don't want to pay for their own insurance. I guess that makes me both conservative AND liberal.

So the Republicans are going to be forcing an issue on something that is moot? Recent NBC/WSJ polling showed that only 39% of people thought the HCR bill was bad, and a portion of those was because it didn't do enough and needed to be stronger. 39% thought the HCR bill was good, and 22% didn't know, didn't care, or thought is was neither good nor bad. So, less than 2 in 5 people think the HCR bill was bad because it went too far, and this is the "overwhelming majority" that the Republicans are trying to be a voice for in this repeal effort?

I'm gonna just hunker down until the corporations take over the country, and then me and my "loony liberal" friends are gonna stage a new revolution against our "corporate masters", because the Republicans seem hell bent on giving the country away to them as it is.

Basedrum777...

Gotta break so I can get back to it with y'all for a sec but then I have to go for the day. Where do I start?

1) I never said I want the bill repealed. I want it amended into a much better bill than it is now. If repealing it is the only way to get there fine. Otherwise, I would prefer it is just amended. I also (see previous post...I think my first...I called out the repubs for grandstanding. That leads me to my 2nd point.

2) Where did I say I am a republican? Nowhere. You apparently haven't read my previous posts on THIS thread. Try painting people into a little box that helps you think you understand them a little less and spend more time listening to what they say. For those in the back row and at the expense of being redundant, I'll say it again..."I AM AN INDEPENDENT!!!" I, unlike you and others just like you, look at BOTH sides of the debate. Am I right leaning? Of course. However, the best ideas this country has come up with have been bi-partisan. Something that seems to be lost on people here. Let's see I'm pro-choice, I'm pro-healthcare reform (just not the current law as written), I'm pro-gay rights, I'm anti-religion, etc, etc...all VERY republican, huh? Jesus Christ!! It's like in in the sandbox in kindergarten again.

3) You want a referendum on the Obama administrations agenda? Look at the mother of all polls….the voting box. What happened to the dems 2 months ago? Enough said…

4) "And to know what the country would look like under the split scenerio you just have to look at the values associated with federal tax dollars which are passed among states. Red states collect more money from the federal government, BY FAR, than blue states. The blue states support the red states. That's a fact based upon the numbers." - Really? Let's see your facts…please reveal your source. I can't wait.

John a- you state....

HCR was a major victory of the American nation, one that CREATES jobs rahter than "killing" jobs, one that CHOPS the defecit, rather than adding to it, and one that has already begun delivering important benefits to all Americans

professor b - you state

Ah.... but HCR will help to create jobs (despite the outdated infomation Republicans cite) and strengthen the middle class!

Chops $$$ from the budget? How so? You have 2000+ pages of legislation just for the HCR act, let alone the Affordable healthcare act. This will translate into thousands of pages of new regulations that the American taxpayer will have to pay for in the increased numbers of bureacrats and related overhead at both the state and federal levels just to implement and maintain. Doesn't sound like much of a win for the middle class.

The 500 billion (or was it million?) cut in medicare is supposed to be made up by eliminating fraud and waste in medicare. I hope you are not holding your breath on this one.

The numbers that I have seen posted relate to estimates made in January 2009, Hardly relevent since the regs have not all been written yet. Got any up to date numbers and sources? Even obama admitted earlier in 2010 that projected savings wouldn't take place until around 2016.

Yep, no doubt that many jobs will be added in the private sector. All those jobs added just to do the paperwork the government will require to be done (remember the "No child left behind" act). Then we have the medical personnel and overhead required to support the healthcare recipients. All those jobs (mainly skilled, I might add) added to the healthcare costs that the insurers will have to pay out for, and that we (the end user) will have to pay increased premiums for.

Other than SS up to the late 60's showing a respectable balance sheet and even today still taking in more revenue than outflow, What government plan ever showed us a savings? Your local store may have a 50% off sale to entice you to spend money, but does one really save $$$ by spending $$$?

Seems like we need to do an Obama cost/benefit ratio to these plans to see if they pass muster.

Correction... My comments in post 1.61 take up after professor b's quote of...

Ah.... but HCR will help to create jobs (despite the outdated infomation Republicans cite) and strengthen the middle class!

3) You want a referendum on the Obama administrations agenda? Look at the mother of all polls….the voting box. What happened to the dems 2 months ago? Enough said…

4) "And to know what the country would look like under the split scenerio you just have to look at the values associated with federal tax dollars which are passed among states. Red states collect more money from the federal government, BY FAR, than blue states. The blue states support the red states. That's a fact based upon the numbers." - Really? Let's see your facts…please reveal your source. I can't wait.

3) The polls 2 months ago was a direct result of the Democrats NOT focusing on jobs. Remember the GOP saying that "we have heard the people, and the people want jobs"? Remember the President and Democrats saying, "we have not focused on what the American people really want, and that is jobs"? Come on . . . it was 2 freaking months ago. Have you really forgot about all that? Those elections had NOTHING to do with health care, it was ALL ABOUT JOBS. And now what do the GOP saints you supported do? Do they "listen" and focus on jobs? NOOOOOOOOOO!!! Good game, GOP. Good game.

4) This is common knowledge, everyone knows this. You really didn't know that? Really? Well . . . that would explain a lot.

You know, I never hear any facts from you "repeal obamacare" crowd. You just practice your name calling and fear mongering and redneck whistles.

But keep it up - it's working great. The GOP's dropping like a rock in the polls - down to 34% positive. Boehner only got 23%. Tea Party? 29%.

Obama 53% positive.

See you in 2012.

And here you go, Jess.

See, us liberals are all about reliable sources and facts. The right, not so much. Is it hard to think with your gut?

http://www.visualeconomics.com/united-states-federal-tax-dollars/

I only have one comment, if the Health Reform is so good why doesn't President Obama and Senator Reid place their families on it instead of the special health care they do get.

"ENOUGH SAID"

"This is nothing more than partisan grandstanding at a time when we should be working together to create jobs and strengthen the middle class,"

Sort of like like Harry Reid's Amnesty (Dream Act) grandstanding that prevented any climate bill?

Since there are 23 Democrats in the Senate up for election in 2012, I wonder how many of them want to go on record as opposing a repeal of HCR, especially since the act that was supposed to "bend the cost curve downward" actually resulted in an unprecedented 20% INCREASE in insurance premiums.

Mitch, Mitch, Mitch! Looks like the same ol' political games you've been playing for the past 2 years. I guess it's true, "you can't teach an old dog new tricks!"

Roy Wilson...

I hate to admit it, and it really pains me, but the lefties are right here. :)

What the repubs are doing is fine for a symbolic gesture in the house as it forces all those dems that ran for cover and voted against it AFTER Stupak caved to give them the needed majority vote. That makes sense. You get to pin them down.

However, in the senate, that is a different story. All dem senators are already on record voting for it because they had to get the needed 60 to pass it. So there is no need for another vote at the senate level. For5cing a vote there is grandstanding and it will hurt the repubs chances in 2012.

Sometimes I wonder what strategists for both parties are thinking. I'm still totally amazed at how short sighted both are. If I were any dumber, I'd run for office. :)

I see conservatives are back in this thread repeating simplistic propaganda. To the opening post—HCR was passed with a filibuster-proof super majority—you know, democracy--and unlike Bush's tax cuts, which were passed with reconciliation, the second version with breaks on dividends and capital gains requiring Cheney's vote as a tie-breaker.

Moving on… So it's more of the same with Republicans threatening to obstruct and shut down government. The second option of getting 67 votes to change senate rules will never happen. When will the "Party of Hell No!" learn the only "mandate" is to cooperate and improve our economy?

Where is the "replace" part of repeal? We're all still anxiously awaiting Teapublican's brilliant solutions.

Sorcerer - when Congress passed the bill, they mandated that they get their insurance through the exchanges, too, when they're set up in 2013. Those are the same insurance exchanges you as a private citizen will be able to join.

Congress Exempt from Health Care BIll?

Q: Does the health care bill specifically exempt members of Congress and their staffs from its provisions?
A: No. This twisted claim is based on misrepresentations of the House and Senate bills, neither of which exempts lawmakers.

We've received many questions about claims that House and Senate members would be exempt from the health care legislation taking shape in Congress. But neither the House nor the Senate bill exempts Congress from its provisions.

Members of Congress are subject to the legislation's mandate to have insurance, and the plans available to them must meet the same minimum benefit standards that other insurance plans will have to meet. "All plans would have to follow those requirements by 2019," Aaron Albright, press secretary for the House Committee on Education and Labor, told FactCheck.org. "People actually believe we wrote in the bill that Congress exempts itself from these requirements. That falsehood has been going around since the very beginning."

Even the speculation that Congress's FEHBP plans would be better than those offered through the exchanges is outdated. The bill passed by the Senate actually requires members of Congress and their staffs to get coverage through the exchanges.

H.R. 3590: D) MEMBERS OF CONGRESS IN THE EXCHANGE.€” (i) REQUIREMENT.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law, after the effective date of this subtitle, the only health plans that the Federal Government may make available to Members of Congress and congressional staff with respect to their service as a Member of Congress or congressional staff shall be health plans that are€” (I) created under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act); or (II) offered through an Exchange established under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act).

And another great FactCheck article:

Twenty-six Lies About H.R. 3200

PLEASE READ!!!

Please Mr. Obama, extend the coverage of pre-existing conditions to auto insurance.

I wrecked my car last week, but didn't have insurance.

Now, none of the insurance companies I call will cover the damages when I sign up with them.

Please make these mean insurance companies cover my damages.

You said it was the right thing to do (but I'm sure you didn't just mean for healthcare).

Jess:

Having a great time spending the money you've been working so hard to earn. Wish you were here. Before I get to work on my next drink as I laze about here at my cabana, I thought I'd address a "fact" you tossed out.

But first a quick note about reading comprehension. I said looking up empirical facts was up to you. I'm tired of wasting time looking them up for folks like you, when I know you're going to ignore them in any case. Besides, time's a-wasting and I have some serious drinking to do.

Now to that "fact", the one about the bill that was passed in September of 2010. I'm pretty sure, in fact - yes one of those annoying facts - I'm positive that bill was held up by your Republican friends. It was passed only when two Republicans voted for cloture. One of those was George Voinovich, who actually did the right thing because he wasn't running for re-election. Yep. That's a fact.

Now, get back to work. I need your money so I can continue to lead a life of indolence at your expense. You know how we liberals are? Never worked a day in our lives and suck the working class dry. Holy cow, that almost sounds like I'm a filthy rich Republican.

Oh I have another minute. I see my waitress bringing me one of those cute umbrella drinks. She's not quite yet here. So let me address the bondholder issue. You see Jess, they're participants in risk. They buy bonds and they're compensated with a "risk premium". That's interest, you know? Well, the nitwits who had been running GM gave the company away to the unions. (I know in your world that the unions are the bad guys. Why is that? Is it because they beat the snot out of the white shirt and wingtip crowd?) Anyway, in the world of capitalism, the owners of capital take the risk, not the labor pool. But that's a lesson in Economics, and you can go to school for that. And my waitress is here anyway. Cheers!

So how can forcing a symbolic vote, which would not actually be bill passage, possibly be beneficial? All this will do is get Republican Senators on record as wanting to repeal health care. They can't get enough real votes for repeal, and they know the President would never sign it anyway. And they could not possibly get enough votes to override a veto. As time goes by and the number of citizens in favor of repeal is becoming an ever shrinking minority, getting on record in favor of repeal will likely come back to haunt them in 2012. Maybe there's some Democrats encouraging this stupid stunt so the Republicans just look like even bigger idiots. These jokers say they're doing what the "people" want? Better check again.

To the Republican Senators, quit wasting time like you've done for the last two years and get to work!

this strategy of "let's do whatever we can to block Obama even when he is trying to accomplish something useful" is not what "the people" want; if anything, voters wanted you idiots to provide balance so we could hear more than one side, and voters are clearly an impatient bunch wanting instant results so yes, part of the problem is just that so expect your voters to continue changing and reacting. Obama wouldn't have been elected in the first place if the majority of voters didn't agree there was a problem with health care but at least initially, just didn't think this bill was going to help and they didn't want to have to pay for something that didn't work. I do not think most Americans understood the health care bill (a failure on the part of those who supported it to make it more clear in some ways but also the failure of the public to make any meaningful effort to understand and responsibly comment) but now that it is becoming more clear to people that this law is good for this country and its economy, the Republicans appear to be taking something away from us now. I think Republicans really missed the mark focusing on spending and job loss and worse, suggesting that we have the "best health care system in the world," when they should be agreeing that real reform is needed but that this bill simplly doesn't accomplish that (if that is what they believe and I for one, do not see it that way but I do agree that the bill does not go far enough). Those who favor the bill should be focused on the specific ways the bill does address the problem and how the bill actually helps the economy by making this real and not so academic. The denial approach (arguing that our country has the best health care system in the world) is so off the mark, it just sounds like political rambling and gaming, not sincere at all. It is not a sustainable position and also sounds like a defense of the insurance industry, but real debate about the specific ways the bill works and what specific benefits it provides us and then from those who oppose it, legitimate criticism about how the bill fails to address the problem and helpful suggestions to make it a better bill, would benefit us all and make us think Congress is actually trying to accomplish something which benefits the public.

Let's see, if 30 million more people have health insurance and are able to go to the doctor on a regular basis wouldn't that create jobs? You need more doctors, nurses, medical assistants and so on, so you would need to increase education to train more people which would require more teachers, etc... and all these people have to be paid. Then they take their pay and spend it, more spending creates more jobs. It might actually create more than a million jobs

Is that too hard for even a wing-nut teabagger to figure out?

No, last year's bill actually enacted legislation. You might disagree with the legislation, but it had a chance for success. No one believes the current legislation has any chance of passing and being enacted. Huge difference.

And it is unfortunate that Obama proposed a plan to improve the system that has resulted in the world's richest country having the highest rate of infant mortality in the developed world and the highest cost as a percent of GDP. First in spending, last in effectiveness; that sounds like a system worth defending.

That same system is ranked #37 by the World Health Organization, just behind Dominica and Costa Rica. The U.S. is ranked #72 by WHO for overall level of health. Ranked 14th out of 14 for "preventable deaths".

The existing system is HORRIBLE. You can argue opinions all you want ... the FACTS are that Americans pay more and get less for medical care than any other country in the world.

You may not care about that. Perhaps you aren't "pro-life" and don't mind all the babies and small children who needlessly die as a result of a system where health care is rationed by income.

That's okay. Just don't make up stories like Obama's alleged "death panels" when you are advocating for a system that has demonstrated it kills thousands of children who would live under any other developed country's health system.

RealAmericansFirst,

Neither H.R 3200 or H.R. 3590 are the bills that were passed and signed by the President. Also, since everyone on both sides seems to be consistently tossing out bogus information, Healthcare Reform, Obama Care, Affordable Care Act, whatever you choose to call it, it was passed via a technical loophole in the Senate through a process called Reconciliation. The bill did NOT have the overwhelming support the Democrats claim, otherwise with the super majority enjoyed by the Democrats they could have passed the bill with a straight forward up or down vote, and forwarded it on to the President for his signature.

Nothing would have had to be changed or removed or re-written... You know things like the "Single Payer" and "Death Panels" etc etc et all.

As to the comment from TheTruthAboutTiger reference "Death Panels";

The "end of life counseling" provision, (colloquially known as "death panels") which was a highly debated source of contention that had to be removed from the bill in order for the Democrats to get the bill passed, was backdoored by Representative Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.).

Based on the new law, Rep Blumenauer was able to get it added via a change in rules to Medicare made possible by the new health care law. The rule went into effect on January 1, 2010, and unlike the provision in HR 3200, that President George W. Bush opposed which provided reimbursement for this service every 5 years, this rule allowed for reimbursement annually.

According to the New York Times, "Blumenauer praised the new regulation but said his office wanted to keep news of the regulation quiet as long as possible so critics -- especially Republican leaders -- would not try to reverse the regulation or bring up the old "death panel myth." Stating that "the longer it goes unnoticed the better chance we have to keep it."

However, "because the end-of-life discussion was not included in the proposed regulation, as published in July, the administration felt that "the opportunity for the public to comment on it was too limited" (Joyce Frieden, News Editor, MedPage Today Published: January 05, 2011)

Once publicly discovered and outed, and with their hand caught in the cookie jar, the regulation was revised and removed by the Obama administration.

A prime example of purposeful and willful misrepresentation and deceit of the people by a sitting U.S. Representative.

Hey but don't take my word for it, look it up yourself. Anyone here who believes for one second that putting your health care decisions in the hands of a bureaucrat who's guidelines are to determine the when, where and how based on budget, and the likelihood of a recurring or chronic condition, who doesn't think that will lead to rationed care doesn't just have their head buried in the sand, they are ignorant.

Reconciliation...isn't that the same process by which we were stuck with the Bush deficit increases, my bad, I mean Bush tax cuts? And given the choice between having my health care decisions between someone who wants to get my vote (and thus needs me around to vote) vs. someone who is only out for a quick buck at any cost...well, I think the choice is obvious. Really, which option logically has the closest thing to a "death panel"?

The Bush Tax cuts, which were just extended by the President, with the approval of the Democrats.

Interestingly enough, the Bush tax cuts did this: (hopefully my links don't get filtered again.)

OK this is the Edit as it filtered the links:

reason.com/blog/2010/12/14/evil-bush-tax-rates-made-rich

hutchnews.com/Columns/Price-column10-19--1

taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

"Each year from 2005 to 2007, the top 1 percent's constantly growing share of income earned and taxes paid set a record. That trend reversed in 2008. In fact, the income share for the top 1 percent of tax returns was lower in 2008 than in 2000, largely due to differences in capital gains.

Another indicator of this reversal in the income and tax shares of the top 1 percent is that during 2007, the top 1 percent had actually paid more in federal income tax than the bottom 95 percent, a comparison that was much remarked on a year ago. But the diminished income of the top 1 percent in 2008 means that the comparison no longer holds. During 2008, the bottom 95 percent (AGI under $159,619) paid 41.3 percent of the total collected, a larger share than the 38.0 percent paid by the top 1 percent (AGI over $380,354)."

Once again, we arrive to this conclusion using that new invention called Math.

First - There is no need for any Republican Politician or Tea Molder....one is enough since they have no idea's and mimic talk show talking points.

Second - There is no need for all these Talk Show paid hacks...one is enough. You don't really even need one! Just go to the Lobbyist web site and copy their home written PR lies....now turn on Fox news or any right wing show and viola! Exactly the same! Try it....any topic! Not a thought in their heads....just new ways of saying the talking points handed down from their masters...the lobbyist machine of the 1% richest Corporations in America. Why waste all this man power? ..... its only for show! If any of them went off point or came up with an original idea that would actually help...that wasn't pre-approved by their puppeteers....they would find themselves on the street. So, my question is...why do we need them?

Any of them?

America is starting to wake up to who's hitting them in the head...over and over again! Its not President Obama, Pelosi, Communism or Stalinism....its the Super rich Corporations that took control of America 60 yrs ago! Want freedom Tea Party?...vote Democrat....get what we can from them....then vote them out if they take any money from any lobbyist. In fact outlaw lobbyists or severly curtail them....Until then, none of us will ever be free!

Harry Reid should just date all the bills already passed by the House and Filibustered by Republicans. Its probably about 400 bills. Start at the oldest and work forward. Put Republican legislation in the line...starting at 401 etc. This would be their just deserts....for obstructing everything for two yrs. Then he could reasonably show how it was their fault for creating such a back log. By the time the vote came their would be no Republican Party! America is starting to get their number! Most people now want the Reform bill. More will follow every year....because its the best they could get...and they are starting to know it! ....Then they will remember who was lying to them about it....and they'll be really pissed off ! Mark me on this! Americans don't like someone looking them square in the eye and lying to them. Once shown....they'll do the rest!

September 17, 2009

(Reuters) - Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year -- one every 12 minutes -- in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis released on Thursday.

And as for the GOP dismissing the CBO's assessment that the health care reform will save $230 billion over the next 10 years, they didn't feel so negative about the CBO's assessments under the SAME agency head 2 years ago:

Senator John Coryn:

"God Bless Dr. Elmendorf For His Integrity And Commitment To Tell The Truth.""I believe the professionals at the Congressional Budget Office are doing a very difficult but unpopular work. They are speaking the truth to power here in Washington and making the folks who would pass these enormous unfunded bills that impose this huge debt on generations hereafter somewhat unhappy. But I think they are doing an important service by telling us the facts. Last week I commended the Director of the CBO, Dr. Doug Elmendorf, for saying that CBO will 'never adjust our views to make people happy.' God bless Dr. Elmendorf for his integrity and commitment to telling the truth. We need to learn how to deal with the truth, not try to remake it or cover it up."[Congressional Record, 6/22/09]

What, now you want LITERATE congressmen and senators?!?!? Seriously, where do you get these naively unrealistic expectations?

Um, because they already voted on it?

Like the Filibuster, using a majority in the Senate to squelch a bill is perfectly acceptable. Stopping this waste of time is the will of many citizens, including myself.

scott-768106, truer words have never been spoken

Scott, review the code. If you insist on insulting people, do it elsewhere! Goes for you too Die Hard Lib!

The GOP makes a big deal about the 200 pages of the HCR bill. Does anyone know how many pages any major bill contains? Is 200 pages outrageous, somewhat large, or typical for a bill that enacts a major new program?

Sick - you do realize that this whole "era of civility" thing is a sham and just another way to point fingers at and demonize the opposition without really listening to them or engaging them on real issues, right? If you really want civility, ignore those who are not civil, rather than calling attention to their incivility.

Madison wrote:

"What is wrong with an INFORMED VOTE by representatives who actually READ and UNDERSTOOD... ...the LEGISLATION?"

What, indeed. That same question could have been asked about the record number of Republican filibusters over the past 2 years that blocked legislation with simple majority support from ever reaching an INFORMED VOTE in the Senate. Senate Republicans blocked (via filibuster) legislation that would have passed a straight up or down vote. Now they are insisting on voting on (and are apparently prepared to employ obscure procedural loopholes) a piece of legislation with absolutely zero chance of passing the Senate and surviving the veto pen.

It's perfectly obvious this time-wasting, futile Republican stunt is nothing more than an attempt to score cheap political points.

Scott,

Why are you so antagonistic? What are you afraid of? Now that more people have read the new health care law, they can knowledgeably vote whether or not to repeal it. That is the vote everyone is talking about, and you call us idiots......and for your information my IQ is much higher than your 25.

If its going to happen anyway in the Senate, it seems to me the best thing the Senate Democratic leadership should do is get it done ASAP. By Nov. 2012 who's going to remember this stupidity? By refusing, Republicans win because it keeps attention on the issue over the next several weeks and months.

Get it done and over with and let's move on to what the vast majority of Americans REALLY WANT.

Next.

2000 pages madison

The bickering is amazing!!! I thought we were supposed to make nice!!!! Everyone needs to wake up and realize that these people in Washington don`t give a rats left testicle about anything but reelection. If you think that President Obama cares for you, you are just kidding yourself. He has already started his campaining for 2012. Boehner and the rest of the republicans are exactly the same. Nobody really cares. Or if they do when they first get there, it doesn`t take them long to learn the game. It is all about staying in power, and lining their own pockets with our money. As for Obamacare, I have a friend who came from Canada and lived under their system. I asked him what he thought. He said it was great when you have a young family, but when you got older, it was no good. I asked why. His mom broke her hip, and had to wait two years for hip replacement surgery. In the mean time she developed pnemonia and died from being bed ridden. Welcome to Obamacare. Their motto should be "we`re here to help you die faster" This is the kind of care we will be getting. NO thanks. Our country does need healthcare reform, but not this overall sweeping monstrosity. We need to keep what works, and fix what doesn`t.

So, wolfpack - you prefer the U.S. system which will do everything for old people and NOTHING for people under 65? Yeah, that's logical

And don't tell me about the Canadian system - I used it and it was great.

Can you even imagine what it's like to walk into a doctor's office when you're sick, show your card and then go home and never worry about it again? No bill, no insurance red tape, no conflicting "Statement of Benefits", no collection agencies.<.p>

Just the lowered stress alone should make us a healthier nation.

Kennyb-2956894

After reading all the replies I believe the U.S. population is so polarized to one side or the other that they is no middle ground and so Congress gets no where because as the leadership changes they just waste time changing what was put in place by the last leadership. Tell you what, lets divide the country in half, one half liberal, one half conservative, then after 10 years see which side is better off.

_____________________________

We already have, look at California and New York.

All House members who voted for repeal should refuse the health care that we as tax payers provide them!

Everyone seems to think there is only Republican or Democrat. If you really think for yourself, why not go independent and stop feeding the vultures. As someone has already said, they only worry about their re-election.

lmfao....... concerned really no one paid for your medical services. Hmmmm So then they all worked for free. I hardly think so......

Thank you Wake up for pointing out these perfect examples. Based on this evidence, I'd say the Republicans will give our states a better chance of financial survival. Last week, a poster responding to my concern of living here in Hawaii where our politics have been dominated by Democrats for more than 40-years and we have the distinction of being the second highest taxed state citizens in the country (Only Democrat dominated Vermont folks pay more taxes), suggested that I move away. Actually, he suggested anybody who wasn't a Democrat should move away and leave it to only the Democrats that are left here to pay for all of the lovely entitlements and programs that have created the need to drain the pockets of our citizens. Great idea I thought. It would not be long before all the Democratic citizens started screaming at their Democratic leaders looking for them to make fiscal responsibility the top priority of their government. All of a sudden, the people will be wanting the Republicans back to fix the mess. California and New York are also wonderful examples of the perils of Democratic dominated policies.

Robt, the taxpayer funded healthcare our politicians have is part of their pay. It's called a benefit that comes with their job. What we have in Obamacare is just another tax. They would not dare raise our taxes to provide this new entitlement for fear of a revolt, so they do an end around and make everyone purchase health insurance. Just another tax, that's all it is. Soon, it will be deemed unconstitutional. Another Democratic attack on our constitution.

One question: What is Reid afraid of?

Oh yeah accountability...

The real question is what are the Republicans afraid of?

The Republicans want a vote on the repeal of the HCR bill in an attempt please their campaign donors but they obviously haven't heard the latest poll that shows that people are warming up to the HCR. Polls now show that more people want the HCR bill than those that don't like it. Are the Republicans afraid that the more people are finding out what the bill is about instead of listening to propaganda stations like FOX, Limbaugh, and Beck? Are the people finding out that the bill is a good bill and the Republicans have been lying to them because they sat on their posteriors and did nothing about it for 12 years? Are they afraid that Democrats will get credit for doing something that actually help someone besides the filthy rich who got huge tax cuts? The answer to all those questions for those having a problem comprehending is yes.

Who would have the audacity to vote for repealing affordable health care for 32 million Americans while gladly accepting generous, federally subsidized insurance for themselves? Speaker of the House John Boehner who led the effort -- along with 236 other congressional health care hypocrites.

Over the past two years, especially during the election season, Republicans did everything they could to derail health care reform. They fueled fears and misinformation, throwing around terms like "socialist," "fascist," "government takeover," and of course "death panels."

If Speaker Boehner and his fellow Republicans don't believe the federal government should play a role in that -- fine. But rather than voting to deny affordable care to millions of Americans and allowing insurance companies to discriminate against children on the basis of pre-existing conditions, Boehner should practice what he preaches and start by canceling his own federal care -- care that we pay for.

Repeal proponents like Boehner have long argued the wisdom and availability of private insurance. So he should have no trouble getting great private health coverage from the insurance companies he's been representing so well.

What a stupid article.

They don't even have to force a repeal vote for crying out loud!

The Republicans hold the Power of the Purse in The House!!!!

I have an easy solution to this whole health care thing. Lets have all the senator & congresspeople pay their own health care without the 2/3 subsidy the we tax payers are paying. Let these baloney makers pay their own way like the rest of us. Both the Democrats & Republicans would never do this as it would cost them money. Why should they get a massively subsidized health care for them & their families while the rest of us have to pay our own way.

A special note to Robert757A: The new health care bill is close to 3,000 pages loaded with pork. Our elected officials would really have to be a bunch of illiterate buffoons if they could not read a 200 page bill. I submit that any bill as long as the health care bill is, and few have read it or understand it, is hiding a whole lot of surprises. Additionally, I am extremely amused that suddenly after 2 years of wasting their time on matters the public was not comfortable with, they suddenly can't wait to do the things they should have been concentrating on for the last 2 years

If any of you really had a clue you would know, and not from inference, Republicans want to put Democrats on record, to make a stand for their beliefs. Democrats have the uncanny ability to dance around an issue and never give a clear concise answer to any question. To prove this all you have to do is look objectively at any press conference where someone asks for an answer. If you really listen to a Democrat respond you will never really hear any answer.

Look this HCR bill that passed last year is bad news for everyone except politicians. Health care in this country will go down the tubes in a hurry. Less doctors and more patients, longer hours for less. The list goes on and on.

The only real cure to the problem is STOP TRYING TO MAKE EVERYTHING FREE. If your boss came to you and said you now have to work 12 hours a day for 8 hours worth of pay this is basically where the health care system is headed in this country. Look at Massachusetts they have been getting 30% increases in state run health care since inception. My guess is it is not work out too well for them. Now magnify that nationally. With only 53% of the us population paying into the system and 97 % using it you do not have to have a degree in mathematics to know these numbers do not work.

The next thing to do is stop the abuse STOP ALLOWING ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ACCESS TO ABUSE THE SYSTEM. This is the biggest abuse of all. if you must use an emergency room in any town or city. the majority of patients are not American citizens.

Our grand children and their children will be paying this debt if we allow this to go any further forward. OR IS THAT SOMETHING YOU CAN LIVE WITH?

"McCain calls Obama a 'patriot', rejects critics who say he's 'unworthy' to lead"

By theGrio

5:01 PM on 01/17/2011

garcher - Everybody in Congress put themselves on the record when they VOTED in a ROLL CALL vote for the bill last year. You can go look it up without charging $337,000 an hour to read the roll over and over again. It's childish and wastes my tax money.

Why does the GOP need to take the roll over and over - but only when the vote doesn't go their way?

Great link for those who like to see the problem in graphics:

Health Care Costs per Capita

Not only do we pay the HIGHEST PER CAPITA health care costs in the world, we're falling behind nations that provide universal health care at a lower cost:

CDC report: US life expectancy drops for first time in 25 years

Life expectancy in the U.S. decreased from 2007 to 2008, according to a report released Friday by the Centers for Disease Control. Life expectancy in the U.S. increased dramatically from 1960 to 2000. The latest decrease, the first in 25 years, leads some medical experts to suspect a downward trend.

We're now 36th in the world and dropping as other countries (WITH universal health care) have improved their life expectancies.

Lagging U.S. life expectancy ranking blamed on health system

The United States is falling sharply behind in world wide rankings of life expectancy, and shortcomings in the U.S. health care system may be to blame, scientists say.

Researchers studying the issue concluded that obesity, smoking, traffic accidents and homicide can't account for the drop—"leading us to believe that failings in the U.S. health care system, such as costly specialized and fragmented care, are likely playing a large role," said Peter Muennig of Columbia Univers ity, lead author of the study.

In the research, which appears in the Oct. 7 online issue of the journal Health Affairs, Muennig and co-author Sherry Glied of Columbia cite the growing lack of health insur­ance among Americans as a possible culprit.

The study looked at health spending, behavioral risk factors like obesity and smoking, and survival rates for men and women ages 45 and 65 in the U.S. and 12 other industrial­ized nations.

While the U.S. has achieved gains in 15-year survival rates decade by decade from 1975 to 2005, the researchers found that other countries enjoyed even greater gains. So the U.S. slipped in the ranking, even as per capita health care spending rose at more than twice the rate of the other countries.

Around 1950, the United States ranked 5th for life expectancy at birth for women and 10th for men among developed countries

Is this any way to run the richest nation on earth? Why would anybody fight to stay where we are???

You know, Joe, a whole lot of people tried to let you know that you're a blithering idiot last time you cut-and-pasted that same dumb rant. I think you must really be a masochist looking for someone to to whip you, right? Do you charge when they call that number? Or pay?

WOW I have to wonder if people actually ever research their blog? Where in the world did you get the information the health care bill was 200 pages?

You looked it up? You couldnt have looked it up because i did and you are wrong.

House health bill clocks in at 1,990 pages - Jonathan Allen ...

... runs more pages than War and Peace, has nearly five times as many words as the Torah, and its tables of contents alone run far longer than this story. The House health care bill ...

I have to wonder if people even have the slightest clue waht is in this bill since they seem to be completely clueless of the number of pages in it.

If you are from canada land of the going to see a doctor lottery please do go home.

If you are from canada land of people who come here to get their lives saved again please do go home.

Last time I checked we do not force canadians to stay here unless they are in jail (we have freehealth care in jail too) so if you are not in jail go home and when you get out go home.

Can canadians ever mind their own business?

Most doctors in the european health care system of free health care are imported from different countries where the education standards are much lower.

I dont know if that is a fact in canada but i do know they have severre doctor shortages and have lotteries to go see doctors.

I do know for a fact their surgery wait times are very long and many people die waiting or come to the usa.

I have researched this and their are a number of books written on the subject of free health care.

I feel the majority of the people are unresearched and if they did all the research needed they wouldnt want to be deluting the health care system for the eldrely who have waited for the privalage of medicare,

This country has free health care for everyone on welfare and unemployment.

We do not need to flood the market and stress our economy with the canadian and the european failed health care systems and put our people at the same risk of waiting till they die for surgery.

I dont believe you are from canada because a freind of mine from canada had his open heart surgery rescedualed 15 times.

Heath care is a demorcratic cause, obviously not a republican one. The law passed last year, why are we revisiting it. The tea party may want the health care plan to be repealed, but they don't represent the majority of Americans. Americans want Jobs and a shrinking of the deficit, but mainly jobs. let's work on that, shall we.

Lanikai Ron
The Federal and public debt and National deficit have historically grown more under Republican administrations. See the charts that prove it here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms

Doc Joe
LMFAO
Yea...its the libs that want to "push for laws forcing everyone to live as you think is appropriate." I especially hate the way they think its up to them to make laws determining what a woman does with her own body, and who gets to get married, and who gets to decide when people should be taken off of life support (heres a hint...its not famiy members or medical professionals).
Oh Wait ,thats the repubs....never mind!

Sandyshores10

"Can canadians ever mind their own business?" Are you frigging kidding me? An American has the audacity to ask this? Hello pot, its kettle! Whose countries business isnt the U.S. in? At least the Canadians only have an opinion and not a foothold! How much of a military presence does Canada have here? For that matter how many foreign militaries are here at all?
From the American Observer:
The United States has military presence in over 130 countries, according to a Department of Defense report for 2008. No other nation in the world has such widespread global military presence.

According to The Center for Research and Globalization, an independent research organization, "The United States Military is currently deployed to more locations than it has been throughout history."

>Not only does the U.S. have military in a significant number of countries, but it also has diplomatic relations with almost every country. A June 29, 2009 report from the State Department indicated that there are 192 countries in the world. The U.S. has diplomatic relations with all but four: Bhutan, Cuba, Iran and North Korea.

Also, I was on unemployment for almost a year and did NOT get ANY healthcare, much less free health care

SORRY....Wrong!!!!!

@Reason-11551

So this is obviously different from when bills passed the House, only to be denied a vote BY THE MINORITY PARTY in the Senate? Hypocrite much are we?

Let me repeat a statement I made earlier that some Conservatives are missing. A bipartisan poll just released shows that more people approve the HCB than disapprove of the bill. Where do the Conservative get the idea that they are in the majority. The irony is that by the time the election comes around the public opinion could sway strongly in favor of the HCR bill and the Republicans will look like the azzes they are. Especially McConnell. If not for FOX propaganda against anything the Democrats did there would have been very little opposition to the bill in the first place since nearly everyone has wanted health care improvements since the early 90's. If not for the Republicans vendetta against Clinton something might have been done then. The Republicans wasted 12 years of congress control to do something about health care but chose to go to war for oil instead. How did that work out?

Sandyshores - Well, for someone ragging on another poster for NOT DOING THEIR HOMEWORK, you sure turned in a piece of crap. 

GOP wrote 5 of 10 longest bills

Great bit of legislative sleuthing by Danny Shaw and Andrew Rabinowitz at OpenCongress.

You know how House and Senate Republicans mock the Democrats for introducing the longest bill in the history of bills — health care reform — longer than the Torah, longer than a 1960s Robert Byrd speech, longer than the Reno phone book?

[Orrin Hatch's longer-than-"War-and-Peace" claim has been debunked.]

Well, here's what they don't say: Five of the top 10 longest bills in the past decade were written by Republicans. In fact, the House health care bill is a mere 68 words shorter than a transportation measure introduced in '05 by Alaska Republican Rep. Don Young.

Here's the top 10, with GOP bills in bold:

1. 314,900 words, "Affordable Health Care for American Act," 2009, Rep. John Dingell (D-Mich.)

2. 314,832 words, "Safe, Accountable, Flexible, Efficient Transportation Equity Act: A Legacy for Users," 2005, Rep. Don Young (R-Alaska)

3. 314,573 words, "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act," 2009, Sen. Harry Reid (D-Nev.)

4. 296,111 words, "Consolidated Appropriations Act," 2005, Rep. James Kolbe (R-Ariz.)

5. 276,849 words, "Consolidated Appropriations Act," 2008 Rep. Nita Lowey (D-N.Y.)

6. 274,559 words,  "No Child Left Behind Act," 2001, Rep. John Boehner (R-Ohio)

7. 258,205 words, "National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008," Rep. Ike Skelton (D-Mo.)

8. 250,286 words, "Food, Conservation, and Energy Act of 2008," Rep. Collin Peterson (D-Minn.)

9. 246,984 words, "Consolidated Appropriations Resolution," 2003, Rep. Bill Young (R-Fla.)

10. 226,492 words, "Energy Policy Act," 2005, Rep. Joe Barton (R-Texas)

Really, what do you people want? The Cliff's Notes version of a health care bill that doesn't give any specifics or lay out how it will be paid for?

Oh, right, that's what the GOP just filed. Guess so.

Robert757A

The GOP makes a big deal about the 200 pages of the HCR bill. Does anyone know how many pages any major bill contains? Is 200 pages outrageous, somewhat large, or typical for a bill that enacts a major new program?

When Phil Gramm couldn't get the "Commodities Futures Modernization Act of 2000" to pass after several attempts, he buried it in an 11,000 page end-of-year appropriations bill just before the Christmas break... where it sneaked through.

Think of it as the nicest earmark Christmas gift Enron ever received - that piece of "legislation" created the infamous Enron Loophole. It's also largely responsible for deregulation of the spec market and creation of collateralized debt obligations - your prize, $4/gal gasoline and the collapse of the mortgage market.

And yes, I did say 11,000 pages. That's eleven thousand.

Feel free to look it up. Here, let me help:

http://troytabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/edwallace-oilpricemanipulation.pdf

I'm pretty sure the HCR is something that matters for the people and the country. I don't know about you, but it has directly affected me.

Because apparently you don't realize the financial implications of the BS healthcare bill.

Lots of hand waving about the "financial implications" of HCR and Republicans have been misquoting and simply lying about the CBO report.

Better to get the soldiers home from Iraq and Afghanistan and close bases in Europe.

FatSean, please tell me the lies the Repulbicans have been misquoting and simploy lying about the CBO report? If you are going to accuse them of this, then you need to provide examples.

What I do know is not a lie, regardless of the effect of premiums this bill had, it did decrease the cost saving benefits of FSA's. It set a limit on how much money could be contributed into an FSA and banned FSA being used to purchase OTC medications. Now my wife has to go to the Dr. once a month to get a new prescription for a OTC laxitive due to a digestive issue she has. Prior to this, year it was reimbursed. withou the prescription and its expensive. Now, while we can get reimbursed out of the FSA for this, we now have to pay the co-pay visit to the doctor as well as having to lower the amount we put in the FSA. This medication alone will eat up almost the entire allowable amount we can put into the FSA since they are now limited. The new limit is $2500. We were putting $5k. That also means I pay more taxes because I can't put it into the account as a pre-tax contribution.

And I thought Obama wouldn't raise taxes on those making less than $250k/year.

STL Mike

I'm a lib. I want and am glad this legislation passed. However, your particular beef with FSA is shared by me. I find this to be a negative and can not logically figure out the reasoning. Seems that OTCs would be usefull in mitigating some office visits for minor ailments.

I would like to see this changed. But an out an out repeal? No thanks.

We found one thing we can agree to fix let's you and I work on it together. I'll be writing my congressional rep and senators today regarding this issue on your and my behalf.

Bi-partisanship at its finest!

regarding the lies the republicans (and some democrats) have been telling about healthcare:

Ted, I think there are some very good things to this bill as well. And those need to be incorporated in new legislation. There are too many interwoven aspects of this bill not to have a full repeal and then replace it. Honestly, if there is a way to fix some of it, then fix it and leave it in place. The problem though is I do not see that happening in a way that will keep the bill from becoming too much of a cost burden to the states. Note to mention, what will the cost of this bill should the individual mandate be struck out of the bill by the SCOTUS? How will it be paid for then? I think this will be the case and that's why I'm for repealing the entire thing, starting over, and getting a bill that is more affordable for the country, limits the rise of health care costs (not insurance premiums but actual costs), and will be beneficial to the majority of Americans (not just 30-50 million; what about the other (280 million who do not benefit much by this bill but are penalized with provisions such as the FSA limitations).

Mike,

First, It's refreshing to have dialog with someone I disagree with. I thank you for that. Although I am not studied in this area I beleive this will be deemed constitutional under the commerce clause. If it is deemed unconstitutional, we'll have to scrap it; agreed.

I do beleive that this will be cost effective for our citizens. I understand you do not.

Let's see how this shakes out in the court before scrapping this law.

Again, thanks for the conversation.

I have a hard time having any consideration for those whining about the "financial implications" of the health care bill, when the "financial implications" of extending the tax cuts for millionaires were totally ignored. At least the health care bill helps people who need help, whereas the tax cuts help people who don't need help.

heh, despite seeing them in my post when I first make it...none of my links seem to be showing up today. annoying. Factcheck.org has two articles on their main page about the job-killing and budget-busting components of the healthcare bill.

listen up taxpayers, those public servants in office are on our dimes. stall tactics have stagnated the progression of our country. we need jobs, if most of you haven't noticed. china has, in their country, high speed rail that took five years to build. can you imagine if we passed such a thing there will be tons of folks who'll have a steady paycheck for a few years -- that's workers, and co-relating industries that follow such a venture. so do we really need or want to pay the folks on the hill to stall some more and re-hash legislation that is done?

STLMike: I have the same problem, but your wife doesn't have to go to the doctor's each month to get a new prescription....whenever I send in a claim, I attach a copy of the prescription (because my doctor wrote it for 1 year's refills). She needs to get her doctor to give her the prescription with 12 refills; then just send a copy of the prescription each time you send in a claim. My physician had no problems with this, and the only time there's a problem is if it's a controlled medication.

Tim - here are the FactCheck links you're looking for:

http://factcheck.org/2011/01/a-job-killing-law/

Reliant: Well played, haha.

All: I agree that there are broken parts to the health care reform, but I think Obama's comparisons to Social Security and various Civil Rights legislations describe it best. They started with a framework and then adjusted it until it made sense. If the Republicans are successful in repealing it, they won't "fix it." They won't do anything. Doing nothing WILL bankrupt the economy over time as costs continue to spiral.

Not to mention, the economy and jobs should be priority one.

One of the first actions taken by the new, Republican-led House was to pass a new package of House rules. And one of the most controversial measures in the package replaced the current "pay-as-you-go" requirements with the "cut-as-you-go" requirement proposed several months ago by now Speaker John Boehner.

Under the old "pay-as-you-go" rule passed by Democrats in 2007, the House was required to offset any proposal to cut taxes or increase spending by raising taxes or cutting spending elsewhere. In practice, there were numerous notable exceptions, including an extension of the Bush tax cuts, estate tax relief and the economic stimulus -- but that was the general guideline.

Under the "cut-as-you-go" rule, mandatory spending increases have to be offset by mandatory spending decreases.

So, GOP House, you owe us a bill to cut $230 billion. I propose that we start with your health benefits.

Repealing health care reform will add $230 billion to the deficit over the next decade, leave 32 million fewer people with insurance and lead to higher costs for those who are covered, the Congressional Budget Office said in a letter to House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) Thursday.

@Tracy1973

I realize the financial implications - it will help reduce the deficit. If not, why did Republicans exempt its repeal from the "cut-go" rules they laid out?

These Conservatives obviously don't know about the medical plan called Kaiser Foundation. It's an insurance plan that takes your money and if you need medical treatment you go there and wait your turn for a doctor. I have known several people that have the coverage and they are still with them even though they have a choice of another plan so it mush not be that bad.

If the GOP really thinks this bill is so bad and that Americans all oppose it - WHY did they put off implementation until 2013? (Just so happens that's after the next Presidential election - wonder why they did that?)

Looks to me like their best political strategy with this "stinking turd of a bill" would be to put it into full effect, sit back and watch the American people turn against the President. Think of they money they could have saved on political ads!

Do you really think they were just trying to save the American people at the expense of their party? Or were they DEATHLY AFRAID that this would be a successful program credited to Obama and they would be shown up as crass liars?

Shouldn't the American people get to see the plan in action and decide for ourselves? Talk about a nanny state....

What is wrong with having your Congressman on record as to where they stand today now that they know what is in the bill and know that they know how their constituents feel about the bill? The Senators have spent a lot more time honoring Pro Football teams, college Natl Champs etc.

Because they're wasting my money doing something stupid that we already paid for their time to debate. Calling the roll over and over just to make a point is pointless.

Ummm excuse me, but if your dealing with people who will never admit they did what they did actually do you have to make it a matter of record. I have yet to get any of you liberals to admit you threw blood on and cursed returning military personal from SEA. And I know from personal experience it did happen and often

jollyoldsoul - if you're still hung up on fighting with people in the street over the Vienam war, you're almost certainly on Medicare. How about letting your kids and grandkids have some health care, too?

Jollyoldsoul - I'm very sorry you experienced such a thing. All American servicepeople should be honored unreservedly upon their return from duty - regardless of any citizens feelings about the moral rectitude of the war in question. I'm sure almost every single one of my fellow liberals would agree with me on this (and would hope that those who perpetrated these shameful acts are now disgusted that they did so).

Chris, remember the republicans are not in charge of the Senate, the Senate is still controlled by the democrats. If memory serves, it was President Obama and the democratic controlled congress that wasted a year to getting the health care bill passed, while the unemployment rate kept rising. I didn't hear the democrats yelling "where are the jobs" at Reid, Pelosi, and Obama for the past 2 yrs.

I heard Republicans yelling "Where is the change" as the Republicans blocked bills in the Congress :)

Baffled1010 that is because for two years the Democrats were only concerned with reshaping American society according to their leftist political agenda.....which didn't include and NEVER HAS BEEN trying to fix the economy and help get companies hiring again.

We all know where their priorities are and it isn't with the American economy.

Oh, I know both sides are to blame for the lack of effort on the economy. But the Republicans took over the House with a CLEAR mandate to work on jobs and the economy and this is how they start? I'm very much in the middle, vote both parties depending on the candidates. Sometimes I'm annoyed with the Democrats, but this is so hypocritical, such a waste of time and effort, I'm just very disappointed and further dissillusioned (if that's even still possible...)

Bull - pure and simple - President Obama and the Dems have been creating jobs since the day the took over from the JOB LOSS bush and ilk created! And bull on the leftist political agenda. Unless you call working for the people leftist - which most repubs do!

And yet the private sector has continually added jobs. The reality is that, like it or not, the president has stated that he will veto any repeal so any vote only has PR purpose. If the Republicans are willing to grind the work to a halt to gain only PR points the public will be pissed off. If is one thing to be at odds over an issue still in debate. If a veto is certain then there is no longer a debate. It should also be stated that there is no longer overwhelming support to repeal HCR and since the rally cry was repeal and replace shouldn't the Republican leadership give us their plan for replacement or are we to wait another 75 years for reform?

I agree

The democrats did NOT spend the entire year on HCR, that is a GOP talking point. There were many pieces of legislation passed while the HC debate continued. Congress can and does multi-task--at least democrats can and do; the GOPTP will need to provide proof that it can do more than one thing at a time.

Stu - " It should also be stated that there is no longer overwhelming support to repeal HCR"

Why should lies be stated? Only 39% in the latest NBC poll felt Obamacare was good and 28 states already have suits against adopting it's provisions. The majority clearly do not want it.

From Fox News, notorious for their support of President Obamas agenda-

"The nation is divided over the law, but the strength and intensity of the opposition appear diminished. The law expands coverage to more than 30 million uninsured, and would require, for the first time, that most people in the United States carry health insurance.

The poll finds that 40 percent of those surveyed said they support the law, while 41 percent oppose it. Just after the November congressional elections, opposition stood at 47 percent and support was 38 percent.

As for repeal, only about one in four say they want to do away with the law completely. Among Republicans support for repeal has dropped sharply, from 61 percent after the elections to 49 percent now.

Also, 43 percent say they want the law changed so it does more to re-engineer the health care system. Fewer than one in five say it should be left as it is. "

This change is coming as the public becomes more informed as to what the law is doing and will do in the future.

Review and Reform is what is needed. This is how thing are actually done and it's a time consuming process.

You are correct is saying that 28 states have filed suits but so far none have won, so at this point we don't know if there is teeth in those suits or if it's more symbolism.

Repealing 0bummercare is key to getting companies hiring again. I only employ a couple dozen people and could use a couple more but no way we are hiring till I know how much 0bummercare is going to cost or better yet if it will be repealed. For us its a 20% swing in do we hire or do we fire if 0bummercare remains law.

UWTerry,

I believe one Federal Judge in Virgina has ruled it unconstitutional while 2 others have ruled the opposite. 32 million people will still be uninsured if HCR is fully enacted (CBO numbers).

How many of those 28 states are Republican Govenors and AG's?

well which is it that the republicans have been yelling -- extending tax cuts or repealing health care that moves this country forward?

soupy,

You are partially correct. 1 Va. judge has ruled the mandate portion to be unconstitutional and he also works for a lobby group opposing health care reform.

The fact that 32 million will still be uninsured in this country is an abomination. Everyone in this country should have benefit of proper and effective health care.

You know, it gets tiring hearing several of you saying "repeal the healthcare program," yet I don't hear ANY of you complaining about your taxpayer money paying for all those uninsured people who run to the local ER for "free" care that you and I are paying for out of our taxpayer money! Secondly, it's my understanding, and maybe I don't have it totally correct, but each business gets a tax break for providing health insurance to their employees. Seems a win-win situation to me, and I own a small business myself. Not hiring people because you're "afraid" it'll cost you something is the main cause of the problems we're currently having with unemployment rates! Even BIG companies with HUGE profits say they are "afraid" to hire because it might cost them money -- they are just afraid it'll cut into their profits and their bonuses this year!

I don't think the current healthcare plan we have now is the best that can be, and I think that it needs serious review and revamping. I DON'T, however, think that repealing it and starting over again is the answer -- we don't have time for that if we expect our current Government to work on the economy and jobs (hear that, Republicans?). It would be better if our government could appoint a bipartisan (yeah, that'll happen) committee to review each and every portion of the bill and see where it can be strengthened or changed for the better...delete the portions that won't work and make it something that WILL work. I haven't heard the Republicans come up with any concrete ideas for how they would change it or even come up with a better plan....rhetoric only, no concrete plans? I would LOVE to hear something from the Republicans on what EXACTLY they have in mind for a healthcare bill? We all have to agree, healthcare is going up and up and up each year -- something needs to be done. As I mentioned above, I'm TIRED of paying for all those people who have NO insurance and have to run to the ER for care because they can't see a regular doctor -- that's MY money that's paying for that, and that's the reason why my employer-provided health care has risen this year!!

Reliant,

$60 billion? That's peanuts compared to the $1 trillion in extra costs ObamaCare adds directly. Add to that the millions of jobs lost and the trillions of unseen tax dollars lost, and a mere $60 billion per year is a fabulous deal.

It's hard to imagine anything that is worse than the current bill.

I've often wondered if the people who can't describe their point without generalized namecalling realize how nutty they come across. Everyone who disagrees with your polticial views isn't automatically a "liberal-socialist-with-a-leftist-agenda." Relax.

DIDI,

I will agree with you on the Emergency Room care, but we should also stop all illegal aliens from using the Emergency Room also. This would prevent "anchor babies" and help contain health care costs as well.

economan

Where is your proof that this bill will cause large unemployment? If more people have health care, then more nurses, doctors, janitors, nurses aides, food workers, clerical workers at the insurance companies, will be needed. Please tell us what Fox not news personality stated this?

I have heard doctors say that their payments have been cut, and the government is talking cutting them again. This was over a year ago. There was a poster in the doctor's office last month that asked the patients to write their representatives about a pay cut that was being planned. With the pay cut, they were going to have to stop treating medicare patients.

I also read an article some time ago that said there were not as many students studying to be family doctors anymore. They were training to be specialists. That same article indicated that a lot of doctors were planning on retiring early because of the high costs of being a doctor (student loans and malpractice insurance for two). Where are people going to be able to find a , doctor even if they have insurance? Also, there are millions that still will not be covered (even Obama admitted this).

How is someone going to be able to afford the insurance if they are barely over the cut off line? I know I decided I was going to have to up my insurance or take a chance on being fined. If you can't pay for the insurance, how are you going to be able to pay a fine? I know I had to cut back on my food budget to even consider it. I try to keep my grocery store bill down to less than $200 a month, $100 if I have to pay medical co pays. I have four small heaters heating my house now because my gas bill was so high several years ago, even before the price of gas went up so much. Two of the heaters are not even on all the time. I am sitting here with my hands freezing while I type this so that I can pay my utility bill.

I think that there should be a vote where everyone is on record. That way if the bill fails to do what the people who ramrodded it through thought it would, we will know who to blame.

Ruth - everything you are talking about is BECAUSE OF OUR CURRENT SYSTEM OF PRIVATE INSURANCE! Rising premiums? They've been going up 4%-5% faster than inflation for years. Doctor's payments were cut because 1) it makes more profit for your insurance company, or 2) your friends are on Medicare, and the GOP passed a bill in 1997 cutting their reimbursements.

That bill has been postponed repeatedly because of the devastating effect it would have on Medicare provider availability (costing the U.S. taxpayers millions in administrative costs and expenses). But the GOP would rather have you believe that it was due to Obama's health care reform, which doesn't take effect until 2013.

Full steam ahead with 'obstructionism'... "

In order to can this crap bill?......damn right "full steam ahead".

Obstructionism by the Dems! If this is so sure to fail, why doesn't Reid just schedule the vote and be done with it? The Dems would be the obstructionist as they could easily have the vote and get on with other work. But they won't and McConnel and the Republicans are doing exactly what they were elected to do.

Dems are just doing to the GOP what the GOP did to the Dems. And I like it :)

Boehner, McConnell, Cantor only know how to obstruct, say NO to anything and everything (except low taxes for their corporate masters---gotta have that)!

Their repeal and replace mantra is only have baked.....they have had at least one year to craft the replacement bill!.....Where is the replacement?....Oh, and where oh where are the jobs!

Hypocrits!

They already voted on it. Last year. It passed. You're an idiot too.

It's not gonna happen Tracy, it won't be repealed, which makes it a huge waste of time. Obstructionism isn't going to fix the other problems the country has to deal with.

In order to can this crap bill?......damn right "full steam ahead".

By all means, GO FOR IT Tracy...

Meanwhile, back in reality there are numerous polls saying quite the opposite!

And if I'm not mistaken, poll numbers are calculated by the response of the electorate and NOT your corporate masters!

Fiesty you know darn well that most polls are evenly split. MSNBC had one on here yesterday showing a dead tie between those that want this repealed and those that don't. If it is such a dead split, the bill most likely won't pass but what's the harm on voting on it? Wasn't is the Dems that have shouted for the past two years about all the bills passed in the house and not voted on by the senate. Now the talbes are turned and the Dems won't vote and are yelling its a wast of time to vote? It's not a waste fo time to have an up or down vote. Takes a few minutes in the Senate and then get on with other business. Instead, Reid won't bring it to a vote, the Repulbicans will do what they promised and nothing will get done. Fine by me and the rest of the country that voted the Republicans into power in November. They are doing what we elected them to do.

You would think that an administration so proud of their crowning "accomplishment" would gladly embrace the opportunity to voice their support of it once more... yet they all want to act as though their freinds just caught them on a date with an ugly chick. They are not proud of what they have done, yet they are too party-owned to remove it's burden from the citizenry. Chanting "obstructionism" while they refuse to even allow a vote somehow makes sense to them, it just goes to show how stupid they feel the average American voter is...."listen to this soundbite and ignore our actions".

Some polls show an even split on HC but there's a reason for that. When asked if support or oppose only, you get the split but it does not reveal much and does not provide an honest assessment of people's views. Some people oppose HC because there is no public option and feel it should do more. The polls this week provided a wider choice of available answers giving a truer picture. 43% want it changed to do more; 25% leave as is; 13% change to do less; 18% repeal completely.

"Takes a few minutes in the Senate and then get on with other business. Instead, Reid won't bring it to a vote,..."

That is because he knows that if he allows a vote there might be some MORE Democrats who might vote with the yeas. There are even more Democratic senators, I do believe, up for re-election in 2012 than in 2010.

Again....the man is a coward.

There are 23 Dem Senate seats up in 2012 and only 10 Repub seats. 2 Dems have already said they aren't running as has 1 Repub. There are a large number of Dems in trouble and in states that are Red. Casey in PA, McCaskill in MO and a bunch more. Plus the fact that we are running against the same team that we just "shellacked."

I wonder how we can have so many mentally deficient people in this country? Where is the statistics that show a person's desire to NOT want to be discriminated with BECAUSE OF A PRE-EXISTING CONDITION when the finally get another job after being deleted at their old job. Where are the statistics showing health care cost increasing year after year, with more and more infections and deaths occurring BECAUSE OF POOR DOCTORING? Where are the statistics of SENIORS having to move in with their children because they cannot afford to live on their own. All those statistics are readily available and they are not being used to inform the populace. The advertising agencies are working overtime on the republicraps dime trying to bolster their lies to more and more "mentally deficient people". Yes "deficient" is the correct word. If you don't want to be better prepared for the medical certainties you face, GOOD, YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THEM. But I want the protections, and I think it is not your business as to what I want, so nest time you visit your doctor just give them a BLANK CHECK, and don't worry about the cost, THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT, SO DO IT.

As for the Senate "having" to take up this obstruction again, it only takes ONE Senator to hold up ANY LEGISLATION, INDEFINITELY, republicraps have done this numerous times in the last few months. Mr Reid you should just look McConnell in his eye and tell him, YOU CAN TRY , BUT YOU WILL NOT SUCCEED, AND IF YOU DO TRY WE WILL MAKE SURE NOTHING YOU WANT GETS THROUGH THE SENATE,PERIOD! YOU WANT GRIDLOCK, YOU GO IT!

Ray - go ahead and block everything in the Senate. There are 23 Dems up in 2012 and only 10 Repubs. After 2 years of doing nothing there will be so many Repubs that there won't even be offices for the Dems. The Dems are in trouble to begin with in 2012 and BTW there are more than 4 DINO's who will vote with the Repubs if you let it come to the floor. People spoke loud on Nov 2nd.

Its simple ....just a matter of record. And Im sure thats a record you and those dems dont want.

The bill was already passed you dolts....

Also this bill Creates jobs as wll as give small buisness tax breaks you people just don't care about facts or truth just your sick twistd reality......

Also I have just seen a Wall Street Journal poll which is ran by Rupert Murdoc who in turn owns fox:

It stated that 61 % of AMERICANS want to kepp the bill and strengthen it so I say to you stick that in your crack pipe and smoke it.....You people are delusional if you think a repeal will happen.... Maybe when the legislation first came up the republicans should have been trying to make the biull better rather than just rally and spread lies about it.........

STLMIke & pjam09
What part of "they already voted on it and it passed" dont you understand?

HEY EVERYBODY
Lets take a vote on whether or not forcing another vote on this is a waste of taxpayer money and time which could be better used to address new things that havent been decided yet. My vote is that it is a waste of time. Anyone?

Aye.

jollyoldsoul - Is that "just for the record" worth $337,000 an hour? Over a million dollars every 3 hours? Because that's what it costs to run the House of Representatives when it's in session.

For a party that said they were elected to cut government spending, this seems like an expensive exercise in futility.

As someone who is opposed to the HCR as orriginally passed, do you then see this as a valid and important effort, even if it has no hope of succeeding, at least not as an all out repeal? I'm genuinely curious. To me it seems like a wasted effort, and should have been either held off until they had a sufficient majority to see it through to the end, or attemted as a series of smaller bills that reformed the more problematic parts of the original bill.

Good work believing all the repub trash talk. It has been shown over and over by different people different orgs - THE HEALTH BIL AS IT STANDS IS NOT A JOB KILLING BILL!!!!

maybe they should have worked on the replacement part first. If they come up with something better, then make it an issue.

Yup, those Republicans know how to keep the folks that voted them into office from getting the same health care coverage that they enjoy!....The evil Government subsidized health care insurance---commonly called Federal Employee Health Benefits.....Yessirre ......Federal benefits...but, you can't have it!

This bill is dead in the Senate and the GOP knows it. They are wasting time and tax dollars trying to court conservatards with symbolic bullsh1t.

Duffy - You need to get real, the ramifications on business are obvious and have been voiced by many business owners.

http://www.sbabg.org/2010/03/25/what-obamacares-means-for-small-businesses/

pjam-your link doesn't actually provide any evidence of anything, just the opinions of an anti-big government website.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=12668

Tim, maybe you'll find this one more to your liking???

Cato Institute? Do you ever read anything not written by right-wing think tanks and funded by corporate money?

Don't you realize Cato Institute is the mouthpiece for the billionaire Koch brothers - enemies of all government regulation?

The Cato Institute is a libertarian think tank headquartered in Washington, D.C. It was founded in 1977 by Edward H. Crane, who remains president and CEO, and Charles Koch, chairman of the board and chief executive officer of the oil conglomerate Koch Industries, Inc., the second largest privately held company (after Cargill) by revenue in the United States.^[1][2]

In the August 2010 New Yorker, Jane Mayer writes that "As their fortunes grew, Charles and David Koch became the primary underwriters of hard-line libertarian politics in America."^[16] The article states the Koch brothers fund a multitude of groups opposed to Obama administration policies.

Yeah, the Cato Institute is a non-biased source. Don't you people know the difference between facts and propaganda?

RealAmerican, I see you disputed all the talking points stated in this article.. Good job!! Not one of your two preceeding posts mentions Medicaid or the General Welfare Clause..
Oh that's right, I forgot that you people can only destroy the author or organization when you can't dispute the facts....

As opposed to all the George Soros funded or affiliated sources?

The GOP knows this. This is all BS to court the teabaggers. Get used to this. For the next two years, the repubes are going to play games like this.

Please refrain from using words such as teabaggers, repubes, repugnants, democraps, etc. Make your point without insulting the otherside!

Do you like "toadies to the Koch brothers" better?

Because its payback time for Mitchie and Repuks for the 275 fillibusters during the last two years of Congress??? Get it Now. Repuks killed many many bills the last two years and now they think they should get a vote??? Laughable.....

Payback is a b1tch.

Maybe they should hold off a vote until they have something to replace the health care bill with! There are many good things in the bill that need to be saved. Don't you think amending the bill would be much more productive than repealing the whole thing?

There it is "payback".... what a wonderful way to govern. So you admit that Obama's Arizona speech was just more empty words?

The reality is that the do not want their names associated with the constitution trampling bill.... was it "payback" when they all tried to run away from their support of the bill in November? No, it is shame, guilt, and fear.

it was already voted on and passed. dems are not being obstructionests.they just dont want to waste time on this fruitless effort. obtruction is blocking legislation and bills tryiny to become law. they might end up being guilty of it but not in this case.

chaz - people didn't want the bill when it was passed and they made it very clear on Nov 2nd that they were sending a bunch of new people up there to DC to change what had occurred before. Maybe you didn't hear the news.

the people didn't want the bill because it didn't go far enough.

53% of the American public voted for Obama. And one of the things he ran on was health care reform.

And guess what? His latest approval rating was still 53% positive.

The GOP? 34%

Mitch McConnell? 23%

Sarah Palin? 27%

Tea Party? 29%

All I hear from opponents of "Obamacare" is miscontructions and scare tactics and redneck whistles.

But keep it up, please. See you in 2012, boys.

Good points. I have three nephews attending college and working part time--they have been added back onto their parents' health care plans and I'll add their parents were talking about what a relief it was at our family Christmas.

It's not that they hate you. They just love big business and the rich so much more.

When you add your 24 year old to your insurance - you aren't doing it for free - you still have to pay for them. For me its cheaper to have my college daughter on the University policy where she goes to school. Once she gets out I don't know which will be cheaper - adding her on my policy or her buying her own whether I pay for it or not. I don't see where this is a show stopper or helper for either side.

Hey, CO_Bob_PA - since you always call the health care reform "Obummercare", do we get to call the GOP plan "Bonercare"? When it gets to the Senate, will it be "McDumbercare"?

Just askin'.

Just this week, Republican Louie Gohmert, while waving a copy of the bill at a press conference slipped up--he said, health care "was written by smart people".

Actually the economy started headed down in Jan 2007 when Pelosi and Reid became leaders of the House and Senate. Prior to those 2 leaders unemployment was 4.9% and we had 53 straight months of economic and job growth. Thanks Nancy & dingy Harry.

Jody, Iowa says;

"The U.S. had been in free fall since Aug 2008, the recession began in Dec 2007, and the GOP refused to even break the fall by working with democrats and President Obama to stop the catastrophe. The GOP did absolutely nothing to create jobs--zero, nada, zip".

I can't tell you how disgusted I am that Obama was just kidding when he said "my number one priority is jobs". Remember that Jody? It was his state of the union address in January of 2010. LMAO.. But you found a way to blame it on the Republicans.. I have often read post after post from the Democrats stating "it is not governments job to CREATE jobs" in defense of all things Obama.. Please could someone tell me why it's not the Democrats or Obama's job to create jobs but the Republicans are evil because they haven't CREATED any jobs??
I would also like to know what bills that the Democrats brought up for a vote that would have created all these massive jobs that you allude to? I don't know how you figure the Republicans obstructed anything.. The Democrats held majority's in both the Senate and the House. How else do you think they had the perfect opportunity to ram that POS health care bill down our throats?

Have you guys not read the article where the Repubs can use procedural rules to force a vote?? Wait till the Senate sends down a bill to the Repub House.

Your a sick all for oneself idiot. You do not have to pay anything for Ed's daughter who is now allowed to get insurance without getting murdered by this insurance thieves...

This is sad the mentality of some Americans who can defend spending trillions of dollars on being cops of the world and refuse to help their own countrymen.... Richest country on earth who can't afford to help their own people???? Are you for real....

OIG

you're not paying for her nw but w/o the reform legislation to get health care she'd have ad to apply for Medicaid and you would have been paying for her so wake up. She'd have also had to quit her job to qualfy for Medicare so she'd have ad to go from being a taxpayer to a tax taker.

I resent the hell out of your assinine comment about "dead-beat asses" maybe you mssed she works full time. She was also half way through college but dropped out b/c of her physical problems. I'm glad I'm not you -- living inside you skin must be hell.

"Ed, why should I have to pay for your daughter? It sucks, I'm sorry she's having issues, but what gives you the right to demand of me I have to chip in and pay for it?"

Thanks for articulating the Republican point of view so clearly. We should all be dependent on our corporate bosses for health insurance; self employed carpenters, masons, independent types and entrepenuers can die or go bankrupt. Yup, the rightwingers idea of "freedom." Freedom to be chained to a cubicle.

A TYPICAL, ENTITLED, AS$H01& who cares about only a select few Americans. 30 years ago most companys had insurance for everyone, 50 years ago probably all did. But now jobs degrade good paying jobs or eliminate them all together. She is lucky to have a job and like a lot a people have jobs that don't pay enough to live and surely don't have any benefits. I wish I could talk to you face to face. This type of attitude enforces my view that there are 2 America's. One made up of people that have a share and care for all attitude, not give but care and share. And one that is made up of people that want every freaking drop of everything , everywhere, anytime , and any place all for themselves. I don't want people to handout, but this economy can operate in a much more humane structure than this. The deregulation of money making machines did not help the working class people in this country. It has done us in and the attitude you have is typical of that of the OVER PAYED , SELF IMPORTANT, SELFISH, ENTITLED, As$h0l&s that have driven this once strong country to the brink of DISASTER. CEO's for the most part are useless and over payed workers are the strength of the company. Whats wrong with GOOD PAY AND GOOD BENEFITS, , , ,NOTHING unless you are a GREEDY AS$H)!& like you seem to be I hope the tables turn for you and you have to endure the same , GET SICK HAVE NO I(NSURANCE AND NEED OTHER PEOPLE TO HELP YOU. Republicans for the most part represent in full this mentality. This country was founded to ensure LIFE LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS not just for the rich but for everyone. yo AS$H)!&. CEO's were given government assuistance in the billions, OOOPSSS I mean welfare for the rich so they could keep their 6 mansions and 3 yachts. Tis is not the country the founding fathers envisioned, go somewhere and pray if you know how.

Under the old plan you would be paying ALOT more OIG! Uninsured people having nowhere else to turn get their primary care at the ER (Which is a lot more expensive) and cost hospitals and taxpayers over 60 million dollars annually. Repealing Healthcare Reform still sounding good to ya?

I'm a business owner who employs 180 exceptional employees whom I supply better than average healthcare benefits. I give them the best healthcare that I can afford, while still trying to maintain humble profits, 40% of which are reinvested back into the company for capital improvements to try to maintain any competitive advantage and 50% going toward employee proifit sharing (not 401k, with profit sharing the employee has to contribute nothing), and I have no problem doing so. I am only one employer, but for the Dems to say please don't mischaracterize Obamacare as a job killer, is ludacris in my opinion. I will offer my people overtime before I ever consider hiring another person. The uncertainty of Obamacare and the cost associated with it leaves me no choice if I want to continue to be responsible to my #1 asset, my existing employees. If it just takes one employer like me, not hire one other qualified person, because of Obamacare, then I can assure you with fact, Obamacare is a JOB KILLER.

Rock, there would have been a lot less "uncertainty" if the provisions of the bill had taken effect when it was enacted last year. Instead, the GOP insisted that the benefits be put off until after the next Presidential election. (I wonder why they did that?) You should complain to them that you're not getting your tax break for providing your workers with health coverage this year or next year.

Before you state an unsupported opinion that the bill is a 'job killer' (a GOP slogan, not a fact), you should read these:

FactCheck.org

http://factcheck.org/2011/01/a-job-killing-law/

http://factcheck.org/2011/01/a-budget-busting-law/

OhIGetIt : The posterchild for compassionate conservatism...one of the thousand points of light

And after the tax vote, the Lame Duck session passed more legislation in a few weeks thanks to President Obama, democrats (and a handfull of republicans who decided it might be good for the country to allow the democratic process some fresh air). As Lindsay Graham said, they (the dems) ate their lunch in the lame duck.

right????? what the repubs did regarding tax cuts should have been the galvanizing effect to wake up the public. can you imagine? the dems were trying to ensure the rest of america got tax cuts WITH THE EXCEPTION of the top 4%, who really doesn't need it. and the repubs threatened to stop everything for a minority that didn't need the assistance.

amazing! i can see any right-winger here that trashes dem policy must be with the top echelons of their corporations and are trying to stay on top of the heap. if they're not, they must be horrendously challenged.

That dog won't hunt--Reid, Pelosi and democrats passed ARRA and other economic recovery legislation. You don't keep passing economic packages until you see how the first ones worked. The democrats tried to do more in late 2009 and 2010 but the GOP Obstructionists interferred. Don't blame Reid, blame the ones who delayed, denied and obstructed the past two years.

you hit the nail on the head jody!

prove it.

I think ronpal you should prove it doesn't since the CBO say it does. Oh that's right the referee doesn't count on this issue.....

the CBO can only calculate based on the data they are provided with ---- ever hear of GIGO ?? ---- there is no person on this planet that KNOWS exactly what the consequences of the healthcare law will be over the next 10 or 20 years or more.

Why is it that conservatives deny credibility to the CBO UNLESS it agrees with their view then they are quick to quote it?

with healthcare, as with any law, there are some people who benefit, some who don't, and for the vast majority, no change.

Good question MC. My guess is they did not mean Repeal & Replace, the GOPTP simply intended to Repeal to eliminate it--their insurance company partners prefer not to spend 80-85% on actually providing health care to the clients whose premiums pay their salaries and provide dividends to stockholders.

The republicans have no intentions of actually repealing the Health Care bill. Their insurance lobbyists won't let them. This is nothing more than the repubs pandering to the lowest on the rung of their base, the ones they know they can snow every time. We all know them, they are the same ones still sitting around waiting for Roe V Wade to be overturned. It won't happen. Period. But the fools will continue to believe it will. Wait for the flood of excuses that will be coming in the not so distant future.

Any Congressman who voted for repeal should voluntarily give up his taxpayer-funded health coverage.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

But good luck getting them to man up and do that.

It was hilarious the fit those teabagger freshman Congressmen pitched when they found out there was a MONTH waiting period to sign onto the government health policy.

Rep.-elect (and physician) Andy Harris (R-MD) stood up at an orientation of newly elected members, flabbergasted that he'd have to wait a month for his government-provided private health insurance to kick in.

"This is the only employer I've ever worked for where you don't get coverage the first day you are employed," he reportedly complained, outraged by the delay.

approval rating according to whom ??

Any poll NOT done by FOX & Fools

if you believe every poll that comes out, i'm afraid, sir, you are the fool. ---- i don't put much credence in polls, but if i did, i wouldn't pick and choose which to believe based on some personal agenda.

Bo - The first thing our new Republican controlled house did was endorse an extension of the Bush taxcuts for the rich which added approx $1 trillion to the deficit.

The entire extension of the tax cuts added $1 trillion. Only $150 billion of that was to the upper class. The rest of it was for the middle and lower classes, which by the way, most Dems wanted to extend for the time being because a tax increase on the rest of the country would have been a disaster.

Careful Bo - be very careful. When you talk about tax cuts for the "rich" - who exactly ARE the "rich"? Obama seemed to believe that it was people making $200,000 or more yr.

But when it came to people criticizing White House spokesman Robert Gibb's salary of $175,000/yr, Obama defended it as being "relatively modest." So that's a modest salary but another $25,000 a yr suddenly makes people "rich"?

Obama and his merry band of thieves are nothing but gigantic hypocrites. Gigantic RICH hypocrites. You know, those rich people all you liberals seem to hate so much?

26 STATES ARE JOINING IN TO SUE OVER THE HEALTH CARE BILL.

There would be more but several Liberal states cant afford to join in the suit.

Your polls suck.

can you imagine what the government can do with $150 billion dollars that will go to people who are not hurting in this economy?

wntrfrdscntnt - you mean the $150 billion dollars that didn't belong to the government in the first place? THAT $150 billion dollars?

Why do you think you are entitled to help yourself to other people's money?

Oh right, it's because the democrats keep telling you that you are ENTITLED to do so, and you are perfectly happy to believe them.

Only 2% of American taxpayers claim taxable income over $250,000 a year. (Now, we can debate how many more there really are, but they're not paying taxes on it and so aren't affected anyway.)

Yet we just gave them $678 billion in tax cuts. Think we can afford that?

If so, why don't you think we can afford health care?

suggestion ---- don't believe every poll you read.

Yup, Do not believe any of the hundred polls stating HCR has an over 50% approval rating, Believe FOX, LOL

Polls don't matter ronpal when you are blind to see them, and chose not to believe them because you don't like them..

Most Americans are starting to see the real benifits of the health Care Law now that the truth is coming out about it instead of the DEATH PANEL LIES, etc...

so... how can you PROVE your polls are more accurate ?? ---- answer -?? -- you can't, so you may as well stop trying to quote them like they are the gospel truth.

Bo - again you're wrong. The poll on NBC/Wallstree Journal yesterday showed an even split of those who want the bill repealed in its entirety and those who don't. It's a fairly even divide so quit claiming the majority of Americans want it.

California Girl. The GOP House already must defend voting to Repeal which would eliminate: health care for people with pre-existing conditions, no cancellation if someone gets ill, coverage for children up to age 26, annual physicals for seniors with no co-pays, no annual or life-time caps, insurance companies must spend 80-85% on actual health care, and the list goes on.

STLMike, I believe the poll said that a whopping 18% desired the bill be repealed. Not sure how you can work that into a majority or even into some kind of "even split"...perhaps using Republican math or something...

Yes, since the right is so good at math.

I had one poster arguing himself blue in the face that you had to multiply the per capita health care costs of Canada by 10 to compare them to the U.S. cost per capita. Because, you know, we have 10 times as many people as they do.

This is not a do over. This is repeal. All or nothing. My way or the highway.

Why should they waste time on this BS. It's dead in any case. Besides, payback is a b1tch for countless filibusters from the last two years. It's hilarious to see you lunkheads complain about this.

If republicans were serious, they would work with democrats to fix the current bill but they merely want to eliminate any and all things related to health care. Why try building a better mouse trap from scratch when there is a good, solid bill in place that merely needs tweaking? Republicans are on record saying they like the idea of eliminating pre-existing conditions, adding children until age 26, expanding coverage for seniors, closing the donut hole. If they meant what they spoke, they would not repeal, they would instead bring up amendments to it. I believe they were never serious about fixing or replacing.

The American people will pay for two years of this type of BS because they did not care or vote in 2010. We learn the hardway unfortunately.

Acutally Krunk, they DID care, they DID vote, and they mostly voted AGAINST the liberals and their ass-backwards policies.

All anyone has to do is open their eyes and look at the mess liberal "progressive" policies have made all over the country. Out of control unions that are busting the budgets of a hell of a lot of municipalties in a hell of a lot of states, taxpayers shouldering a huge entitlement burden for the children of illegal immigrants (see today's article on MSNBC regarding the $600 million per year that taxpayers are paying for social services for the kids of illegals) and on the on-going housing market meltdown brought on by liberal bullcrap policies that forced banks to make mortgage loans to millions of people who had no hope of repaying them - because, according to liberals, everybody has the RIGHT to own a home.

Oh and how about liberal "progressive" polices like we have here in NJ where we REWARD women financially who keep having more illegiatimate children even after they are already receiving public assistance. That particular piece of liberal bull@!$%# has beenin place here for years - and all it has done is drive up the number of people on welfare, (oh and added a whole BUNCH of Democratic constituents. Nice.)

As for Obamacare - it's a mess and it needs to be put down, one way or another. Yes, there is a need to address the problems with healthcare distribution in this country - but just because you write a huge bill and label it "healthcare reform" doesn't mean it's GOOD reform.

And it's insane that the federal government thought it was perfectly OK to force people to buy something that can easily run $16k a yr for a family of four - with no concern whatsover as to affordability.

Liberals are destroying this country and I loathe them for it.

Fiscal Conservative. I could easily say republicans destroyed this country and I loathe them for it. Now that means neither of us will ever accomplish solving this country's many problems. I believe in the two-party (or however many) system because BOTH sides have ideas and we get the best of both ONLY IF the two sides work together, compromise and find common ground.

Jody:

I could easily say the Democrats destroyed this country......See how easy that was. I loathe Democrats.....what did that statement solve?

As long as Democrats keep up with the BS, this will continue.

As long as Democrats keep the "I'm smart and you're dumb", this will continue.

Inthemiddle:

You sound more like a republcan to me. Why rip on Jody and the Democrats? Why not respond to what fiscalconservative said?

hey don't jump on jody, she didn't start that.

fiscal, alask had the same thing like nj, what of it!

you can't compartmentalize the crap that goes on in our country, which is why our public servants need to do just that, serve us, not corporations.

i come from a blue state that sends a ton of dollars for federal use, and that's fine by me, but what get my goat is for all the money my state sends out -- probably to red states that generates a healthy welfare class is going to determine the progress of our country. well that's just got to give me pause. anyway, if my state can easily share for the good of the country, you ought to as well.

Jody - I used to feel that way. I've been around for a while and I can remember when a democrat being elected wasn't a horrible thing, because the two parties shared a lot of common ground and values.

But then the liberals hi-jacked the democratic party and tried to re-define what the "middle" means in this country. This country has never been more divided - and I firmly believe it started when liberals took over the democratic party.

Liberal democrats have caused an enormous amount of damage to this country and to our society. They have created a huge class of people who believe they are entitled to all kinds of hand-outs, courtesy of the taxpayers. Liberal policies have created a huge welfare system in thic country that is poorly managed, wastes a tremendous amount of taxpayer dollars and rewards bad behavior.

Liberal/democratic officials have been very busy giving away taxpayer money to all of the public civil service unions, driving multitudes of municipalties throughout the country to the brink of bankruptcy.

Liberal policies forcing banks to make bad mortgage loans to people who had no hope of ever paying those loans back created a HUGE economic disaster in this country.

Liberal policies are anti-business and anti-job creation. Liberal policies create huge burdens for business in the form of endless over-regulation and unfunded mandates.

And liberal politicians in many states are one of the biggest contributors to the high cost of healthcare - because they have been relentless in pushing through unfunded mandates on to the backs of insurance companies forcing them to pay for every feel-good initiative under the sun -with no concern at all for how much this was going to end up costing consumers. And than they had the gigantic brass balls to scream about the high cost of healthcare. They are all scum as far as I'm concerned.

And lets not forget "immigration reform." The citizens of this country have had amnesty shoved down our throats multiple times over the last few decades - and always ALWAYS accompanied by the promise that it would never happen again. And I am aware that Republicans have been involved in this as well, and they were wrong too. We were repeatedly promised that immigration laws would be stringently enforced and that we would not continue to tolerate millions of illegals crossing our borders. Instead, once again, we have an administration intent on granting amnesty to millions of law-breakers, with no concern whatsoever as to how this will affect the citizens of this country, especially financially. And it's very nice to be looking to grant amnesty to millions of people at the same time that a huge "heath care reform" bill got pushed through that would force us all to pay for healthcare for all of those people - and add MILLLIONS of voters to the democratic constituency. We have elected officials who have no fear of saying that their first loyalty is to the immigrant community. We have democrats in Congress applauding a Mexican president who is knowingly encouraging millions of his country's citizens to break our laws. We have an adminsitraiton which is failing to uphold our Constitution, failing to secure our borders and failing to protect this country's citizens from invasion. Do you realize those are all impeachable offenses?

And no Jody, you CAN'T just "easily" say that Republicans have destroyed this country - because you apparently can't back that up with any evidence.

And wntrfrdscntnt? I'm ALREADY paying far more than my share. I live in NJ, and we get about $.68 cents back for every federal tax dollar we send to Washington.

I'm paying $9k a yr in property taxes on an 1800 sq. ranch - most of which goes to pay for the salaries and benefits of civil service workers, including health care coverage and pensions - while my husband and I struggle to pay for those things for our own family.

We pay Federal and State income tax.

We pay tax on our cable service, on our gas, on our purchases, on contractor services, we pay tons of taxes on EVERYTHING.

And you DARE to tell me that I should somehow be willing to pay even MORE?!?

@Fiscal & Jody... the Liberals may have taken over the Democrats....but the Christian Right has taken over the GOP... and I'd rather have someone who wants to provide us with healthcare than tell us how we can live our lives... from whom we can marry to what we can do with our bodies...

What happened to those who want to get the government out of our lives... I'd say the Christian Right isn't about smaller government, or less intrusive government, but a government who expects you to live by their interpretation of the Bible...

Well fiscal, maybe you should consider moving to a more friendly red welfare state. You'd probably feel better there.

Shellie - I should move to a welfare state? Now you think it's OK to tell people where to move? How about if I tell you where YOU should move - to a communist country. You'd probably feel better there.\

And pacangel, while i'm no fan of the christian right myself, if you think liberals aren't ALL ABOUT telling other people how to live, than you have your head buried in the sand. Liberals absolutely and without a doubt are beyond smug and sanctimonious, not to mention holier-than-thou when it comes to judging people and telling other people how to live. Let's take Al Gore for starters and his cap and trade bull crap, telling people they need to leave a smaller carbon footprint, blah blah blah, all the while he's flying around on private jets, from one private home to another, and than jumping into his hummer. Limousine liberals - gotta love them.

fiscal - I'd just like to know, do you realise that Global warming is a scientific reality? That its actually happening even faster than we thought? That it's far and away the biggest problem facing our civilization today?

fiscalconservative - If you want your property taxes to be $18,000 a year instead of $9,000, keep supporting the Tea Party. Because their goal #1 is to cut the amount of federal money your state gets every year.

If you don't remember what happened to property tax bills under Reagan, you're one of those doomed to repeat history because they can't remember it.

fiscal
when banks and financial institutions started collapsing all over hells half acre, credit unions for the most part remained viable. This is because credit unions retain responsibility for their own debt. They have to bsorb their own losses, which results in them not taking great risks which they will be ultimately responsible for. They dont bundle and sell their risky investments to others. The banks did this, but not until deregulation, a conservative policy, allowed them to. This is why they were giving loans to people they never should have , not because the Government made them but because they had nothing to lose and everything to gain.