I am so “Leaning Forward” to see the FR lefty liberal Civility Goon Squad, that has been bludgeoning Republican’s recently for not toeing the new line, CONDEMNING Rep. Steve Cohen (D-TN) for his calling the R’s “Nazis” in the current HCR debate in the House!!!!

Not that I really expect that to actually happen. But, if there is only silence or token condemnation from the FR lefty liberals, it will just further prove my statement to Jody yesterday: One of the nice things about being a lefty liberal is that you get to apply one set of rules to the people you disagree with, and another far more convenient set of rules to those people you agree with.

• Dem likens GOP rhetoric to Nazi lies

By POLITICO STAFF | 1/20/11 8:23 AM

Rep. Steve Cohen (D-TN) took the debate over health care reform to a new level late Tuesday night, suggesting to a deserted House floor that Republican rhetoric around health care is akin to the Nazi propaganda that fed anti-semitism during World War II.

“They say it's a government takeover of health care, a big lie just like Goebbels," Cohen said, referring to a Nazi propagandist. "You say it enough, you repeat the lie, you repeat the lie, and eventually, people believe it. Like blood libel. That's the same kind of thing.”

Cohen said repetition of falsehoods is part of the GOP strategy to advance its agenda, the same tactics used by the Third Reich.

Louis J;

I agree. The GOP is still the GOP and their agenda has not changed one bit. They are still running under the flag of "Obstructionism" and trying to make President Obama a one term president no matter what. They had this beautiful rhetoric during the elections that they were for the American People and that only them listen to what the people say. Too bad that their rhetoric is not supported by their deeds. The people are looking for solutions on Jobs in America, how to stimulate the economy and what has the GOP done so far? Waste our tax payer's dollars on a symbolic gesture that was intent to only stroke their own egos. Good plan, lets see how well that works.

Joe in Albany: You say it enough, you repeat the lie, you repeat the lie, and eventually, people believe it.

Now Cohen is saying he didn't say what he said. Apparently he hasn't heard of audio/video recording. It's all the rage these days.

So I guess like you said Rep Cohen, if you repeat a lie enough times, . . . . . . . . .

At least we now know who the Democrats are replacing Alan Grayson with.

Navy Disabled: The people are looking for solutions on Jobs in America, how to stimulate the economy and what has the GOP done so far?

Taken away the checkbook from the Democrats. And at least they did it before China's Hu showed up because he probably was going to do the same.

Wanna talk about the Debt Ceiling ND?

The president said it himself, 12 straight months of job growth, first time since 2006 when the Republicans were in control. The proof is in the pudding. Try as they may, 2012 is shaping up to be a good year for Democrats and the Progressive movement.

I see that employment will be up by later this year. But I also see the GOP taking advantage of this as something they were part of when they have spent their onset with frivolous actions of tax money, AKA wasteful spending.

The president said it himself, 12 straight months of job growth, first time since 2006 when the Republicans were in control. The proof is in the pudding

10% unemployment, 400,000+ new jobless claims last week. Rolling 4 week average of 411,000 claims. As a measure of success, in a healthy economy, those first time jobless claim numbers should in the mid 200,000's.

You like that pudding Louis?

President Obama's job approval numbers are on the rise on the heels of the historic Democratic defeat in the 2010 midterms.

Just a reminder:

In last November's midterm elections, the GOP gained 63 House seats and 6 Senate seats (including President Obama's Illinois U.S. Senate seat);

53 Democratic House incumbents were defeated (a modern-day record for defeated House incumbents), along with 2 more in the Senate;

87 new Republican House members just sworn in, only 9 Democrats.

Anyway...

Regarding President Obama's rising poll numbers...

Isn't this a bit like closing the barn door after the horse has gone?

Absolutely nothing happened in November to change the long term trends of a younger, more ethnically diverse electorate.

Bag:

Regarding President Obama's rising poll numbers...

Isn't this a bit like closing the barn door after the horse has gone?

Yes, it is. And the poll results indicate the public is already experiencing buyer's remorse after falling for misleading campaign ads funded by huge mountains of corporate cash.

And the poll results indicate the public is already experiencing buyer's remorse

Darn it Houston! - you beat me to it! ;o)

Ain't that the TRUTH!

Well Said Auntie Fascist:

The demographics keep changing every signle day and like the tides, nothing can stop it. Democrats will embrace their fellow Americans, the GOP/TP will not.

Steve Cohen was out of line...happy?

How's it compare to this quote from Rep. Paul Braun, Republican from Georgia;

You"re exactly right. We've lost a lot of freedom in America. People just don't understand how much we've lost. I believe the First Amendment and the Second Amendment are the cornerstones of freedom, and we've lost a lot of our rights, the Second Amendment. In fact, I'm chairman of the Second Amendment Task Force fighting for Second Amendment rights. Those gun rights are actually critical to prevent treason in America, and we must know (applause). These First Amendment Rights, our freedom of speech and all the other things that are going on are just absolutely awful.

I've gotten to be good friends with Justice Antonin Scalia, who he and Justice Clarence Thomas are the only ones who have any concept of what the Constitution is supposed to be and, and do what they're supposed to do as justices by upholding the Constitution. But, in fact every, when I was sworn into the Marine Corp, I was sworn to uphold the Constitution against every enemy, foreign and domestic. We've got a lot of domestic enemies of the Constitution (applause) and one of those sits in the speaker's chair of the United States Congress, Nancy Pelosi.

It seems like only yesterday that our own Mark Murray was lambasting the Democratic Party for announcing its intention to use exactly the same fundraising techniques employed by the Republicans leading up to last November's midterms...

Imitation really is the sincerest for of flattery...wouldn't you agree, Houston?

That is...hypocrisy aside?

Many of us here called the Nazi quote (reference) out as not being acceptable. It is not, it is wrong and it has no place in civil dialogue. Both sides need to stop but it does not appear they will. The rhetoric cloaked in hate and violence continues, just look at some of the name calling already on this board. You guys should cut it back because it distracts from any good idea you may be presenting.

Spirited debate is encouraged, name calling not so much.

All well and good, too bad that ethnically diverse young electorate can't seem to find a job. Too bad they are now classified as children until the age of 26.

So how come we can't claim our "children" as dependents for taxes until they are 26? How come when it's the government's money they only let us claim an exemption until the kids are 18?

Now that the healthcare law labels 25 year olds as children for insurance reasons I'm sure Obama and Rangle will make sure to amend the tax code to be consistent. Right?

Poll Numbers? Buyers remorse?

How about - Well played Obama.

What is the big issue before the new poll numbers? Tuscon. American people were deeply effected and wanted to rally behind the president. Obama did what he does best. Gave a great speech.

Funny that after failed terrorist attack, he rushed out to ask for everyone to check the rhetoric, don't jump to conclusions. Remarkably he even did the same thing after another Muslim screamed Allahu Akbar has he murdered soldiers at Ft. Hood. Didn't do it here though. Let the hate spew, demonize the right go for 4-5 days then gave a great speech and called for civility.

Well Played. Just like Clinton / OK City bombing. Obama is good at politics - just sucks as a leader.

Per Gallup Thursday January 20, 2011:

"Half of Americans would like to see Obama pursue policies that are more conservative."

I guess people now realize that the GOP has the same old agenda which is not to serve the people, but to further their political agenda only, like they say given enough rope they will hang themselves and what we now see is they wasted 2 years fooling around with the Health care issue and their first priority is to waste another 2 years on it, maybe that's why Obama is starting to get the peoples support back, yes the Circus is back in town people ....

Bag, lashing out:

It seems like only yesterday that our own Mark Murray was lambasting the Democratic Party for announcing its intention to use exactly the same fundraising techniques employed by the Republicans leading up to last November's midterms...

Imitation really is the sincerest for of flattery...wouldn't you agree, Houston?

It's the sincerest form of trying to survive. Most people are against nuclear weapons, but they're not in favor of unilateral disarmament. The unfortunate thing about the radical right Supreme Court's Citizens United ruling, aside the from the fact that the Republicans' corporate backers have already used it to flood the air waves with lies, is that the Democrats will have to bend to the will of the large corporations in order to get a serious chunk of corporate cash. They'll be going to the Chamber of Commerce on their knees begging for money just like the Republicans do. The two parties will eventually be indistinguishable, which apparently was Justice Roberts' motives for the absurd Citizens United ruling.

slimsignet

Per Gallup Thursday January 20, 2011:

"Half of Americans would like to see Obama pursue policies that are more conservative."

I know that is all happy talk for you. But, did you the poll which says less that those on the right want to see the republicans work with the President?

LouisJ

Excellent points, 1) GOP does ratchets up the rhetoric about the Chinese hypocrisy on human rights, the GOP continue to suppress the citizens of the United States by attempting to steal, kill and destroy theHCR that middle America so desperately needs. Can I say hypocrisyone more time? With hypocrisy I say, "Don't tread on me.

An example being the bomb planted during the Dr MLK parade which the media say hardly said boo about. Hummm, seems raising hypocrisy raises violence . That's where Glenn Beck is from I think... just saying

2) The President doesn't need to prove squat. His polls do.

United We Stand, Divided We Fall!

Wait for it...wait for it...

Republican Sen Jim De mint, intends to introduce a bill next week that his spokesman says is "identical" to house-passed legislation that repeals the new health care law. Worse, republicans say there's no timeline for their "replace" legislation.

If that’s the case, then the American people are waiting for more of the same, stalling and obstructionism of the republican continuous mantra of just saying “NO”, again, to the American people they so vowed to serve. The next slapdash step for the gop/ tb is to defund the new law of the land. Again another major hurdle to overcome which is what everything the republicans do for the people is insurmountable.

The first thing that seems noteworthy to me is to recognize how, unique and Fake republicans are. This momentous occasion i.e. “repeal and replace” is huge the gop/tea bagger so thinks. Suppose that Harry Reid does give them the vote? Only then will the gop/tb recognize just how paltry republican efforts to placate the tea baggers are. Considering the polls have shifted towards the new law of the land, the health care law, and the President’s favorably. It will require both houses to amass a two-thirds majority vote to overcome President Obama's veto.

Kept dreaming tea baggers cuz it ain’t gonna happen. The "identical" legislation republican sen Demint which says repeals the new health care law is the lacking substance. It’s another symbolic motion of none factual rivalry very much needed to placate the tea baggars. But, just imagine how stupid the republicans will look after they put the hammer down. The republicans will have to say--Sorry all the happy clappy talk we did failed. Humm, it indicates tea baggerswill have to admit republicans are NOT speaking for all the America people as House MinorityLeader John Boehnor claims. tea baggers represent less than 30% of American voters.

I wonder will John Boehnor still be happy with skin he's in?

Keep on getting better Rep Giffords.

About the HCR repeal stuff being a waste of time, symbolic blah, blah.......

"These two entities - Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - are not facing any kind of financial crisis." "The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing." - Rep. Barney Frank, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee

The Dems defeated the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005 Repubs 55 / Dems 45 and the rest is history. Was it a symbolic act? Wouldn't everyone agree (well those with a functioning brain stem) that we would be better of the Repubs had not dropped their efforts?

How is that so different than what is happening now with HCR, except HCR is much more dangerous? Government social engineering doesn't work. Repubs can not give up on this one.

You (conveniently) declined to address the issue of the DNC's hypocrisy in adopting GOP fundraising techniques...almost immediately after spending months condemning them. It reminds me of Orwell's Ministry Of Truth where workers tire endlessly at revising historical records to make them comply with current policy.

Anyway, on the hypocrisy thing, I'm sure that was simply an oversight on your part, Houston, but...

I'm pretty sure that's what Mark Murray was getting at.

Louis

It is extremely funny that just a month ago, Obama had the lowest ratings of his Presidency. It is extremely hard to believe that has changed so quickly, especially since he has done nothing of substance in the last month. I do give him credit for realizing the political reality that he has to compromise now that Republicans have a larger share of government, but that isn't enough to earn him much more than a small pat on the back. This year will tell the tale. Republicans and Democrats alike will seal their own fates with how they conduct themselves on Capitol Hill.

Auntie - "Absolutely nothing happened in November to change the long term trends of a younger, more ethnically diverse electorate."

You are correct Auntie, the important stuff happened duringthe 2 years prior to November which is why they abandoned the Dems in droves. It is the younger electorate who has watched their future be borrowed and spent right out from under them. It is the younger electorate who had such enthusiasm for "change" and a "more transparent government" only to watch the "change" be in form of a constitution trampling personal agenda and an ever-expanding, overreaching government. The younger electorate may have received their buy-off by being given the ability to stay on their parents insurance until 26 (which they will need due to no jobs) but the majority of them see beyond that and understand now that enthusiastic speaking is of little importance in managing a nation responsibly and ethically, if it was the U.S. would have collapsed under Bush, if you think they have not learned you are mistaken.

Beverly in Chicago

I know that is all happy talk for you. But, did you the poll which says less that those on the right want to see the republicans work with the President?

Just reporting what Gallup says.

Which many consider the most reputable polling organization.

Denying their numbers changes nothing.

Fact not opinion. Logic. Not emotion.

Do not believe the lies about unemployment above - the numbers are completely inaccurate (even if you round them to nearest whole number). The real numbers from USDL BLS say:

The unemployment rate fell by 0.4 percentage point to 9.4 percent in December, and nonfarm payroll employment increased by 103,000, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. Employment rose in leisure and hospitality and in health care but was little changed in other major industries. ()

Why would anyone care about accurate information and civil debate, when they can be so easily and blindly led into believing anything....I for one - support facts and raw data. This number fluxes - but this along with other data being released suggests were are in the midst of a stronger than hoped recovery from the Bush Recession.

MB, I think the Supreme Court is absolutely wrong to equate money with speech. This whole concept is destructive to our republic.

I think the Supreme Court is absolutely wrong to legalize bribery in the form of anonymous campaign cash. This whole concept is even more destructive.

Right now, however, it's the law of the land. Until that can be fixed that's just how it is.

Speaking of which, why DID Republicans block the DISCLOSE Act, backed by a large majority of Americans and designed to restore transparency to our campagn finance process? What are they trying to hide?

"A majority (56%) thinks the county is on the wrong track"

I don't think they are really asking that question right, and never have. I think too many respondents view it as a grading of "where we are right now", not "where we are heading". The questions used in the polls are not specific enough about what they're asking. The pollsters always want to ask the same questions in order to make historical comparisons of responses, but to me that just means they got the question wrong at the beginning and are reluctant to change it now. I think, at a minimum, they should add a few new questions that aren't so easy to "misinterpret". What does it really mean to say the country is "on the wrong track". It means very different things to different people. IMO, they should ask something like: "Regardless of your current opinion about where we are as a nation, do you think we are currently making headway, or slipping backwards? Something to that effect. Something that isn't quite as vague and subjective as "Are we on the right or wrong track?". Just my two cents worth.

There is nothing GREAT about his approval ratings!!! I want to know WHY he is so jazzed about working with others NOW vs. before November 2nd? He has got to be the MOST transparent idiot that's even been in office!

pjam09

You are correct Auntie, the important stuff happened duringthe 2 years prior to November which is why they abandoned the Dems in droves. It is the younger electorate who has watched their future be borrowed and spent right out from under them. It is the younger electorate who had such enthusiasm for "change" and a "more transparent government" only to watch the "change" be in form of a constitution trampling personal agenda and an ever-expanding, overreaching government. The younger electorate may have received their buy-off by being given the ability to stay on their parents insurance until 26 (which they will need due to no jobs) but the majority of them see beyond that and understand now that enthusiastic speaking is of little importance in managing a nation responsibly and ethically, if it was the U.S. would have collapsed under Bush, if you think they have not learned you are mistaken.

You forgot the most important fact/caveat related to mid-terms voting. Historically, "older people" vote in mid-term elections not young people - in a nearly 2-to1 margin. So, did young people " abandoned the Dems in droves"? No. The fact is that fewer people participated in the 2010 election, the numbers show that the surge in the electorate was from older, white voters. In 2010 young voter turn out was down 20%, black and Hispanic votes were also down by double digits.

The fact still remains that our demographics are changing, younger generations are far more diverse and tolerant. They don't clutch onto the old schools of thought, they believe in a brighter future - through social awareness and change. I think Auntie summed it up beautifully;

Absolutely nothing happened in November to change the long term trends of a younger, more ethnically diverse electorate

Of course obama's rating is rising. He is pulling a "Bill Clinton" and moving to the right. This is a good thing for the US. Hopefully Boehner can control Obama just like Gingrich controlled Clinton. I'm a conservative and not a republican. So I could care less which party is in control as long as we continue down our conservative path.

the GOP bought this election .. they will have a tough time selling there ideas come 2112 .. president Oboma has done more for middle america in 2 years than has been done in all the 12 years of the right and 8 years of Bush.. the times will change as Nancy Pelosi said vote on HCR and let the people see what is in it .. and sure enough there are no death panels no coverage for illegals no massive job losses or any of the other disasters the GOP ran on and America is now beginning to see the lies for what they are

I am lower middle class and Health Care Reform is hurting me. My premiums have doubled since HCR was passed. The "middle class helping" health care reform is making my insurance unafordable. Please do not speak for me unless you understand my situation. Although I stuggle to get by, I will make it on my own, without the assistance of others because I don't believe my fellow countrymen/women's tax dollars should go to my welfare. And check out insurance companies income statements, profits would indicate they are in favor of "Health Care Reform" I realize my situation does not reflect everyone's reality, but my life is not improved with the passage of HCR

The change of winds the pundtis are seeing were always there. The majority of Americans are much more liberal in nature (and always have been) and want the very things for their familes that the corporation-fueled RRRRWW rail against.

When a society is divided along the lines of dogma vs. rationality, you're going to feel the lashing winds of anti-intellectualism try to "blow the house down"---

However, when all is said and done, no one wants to see our country fall completely into a modern middle ages and all the inequalities and pitfalls that causes. So, after the storm, the voices of reason are trying to be heard.

If it weren't for "liberal values" the RRRRWW wouldn't be able to shout their way around the country at all. Therein lies the irony.

great words.. well spoken! couldn't have said it better..!!

Yep with yesterdays house vote to repeal the healthcare bill the republican tea bags show they have their heads clearly between the butt cheeks of big corporate interest not the american people.

"My premiums have doubled since HCR was passed."

Dave, why do you believe the increase was caused by HCR? Premiums quadrupled while GW Bush was president. I'm not involved in insurance rates in my current position, but the last 2 increases at my previous employer were 22% and 35%.

Davefrom Dayton - You say the new healthcare law has not been good for you. What specifically about the new law has affected your premiums? After all, my premiums have been going up every year for the past 5 years regardless of the HCR. Most of the HCR reform has not gone into effect yet either. I am curious to know what specifically about this law is affecting you negatively. How do you know your rate increase happened because the HCR has not taken effect yet?

Does anyone find it disturbing that the Republican leaders publicly stated that the positive changes in the economy is because of them? Because they won the majority in the House in November it is their good fortune? They tout about the great job they did "last year". They may have gotten the majority per the vote in November but, this majority didn't do squat? They didn't begin being the majority until January 5th?

Everyone knew all Republicans would start to take credit for everything positive that happens. They can't even give the credit to who actually is responsible for any improvements that take place.

Over the next 2 years we do not have to resort to name calling. All we have to do is pay close attention to just who is leading our country out of the misery we have endured since before President Obama was elected. Pay attention to any legislature who blatantly lies. Demand they, regardless of who they are or what party they belong to, provides proof to what they claim and that it is reviewed by an independent group to ensure it is true. We need to start dealing with cold hard facts.

The Republicans and 3 Democrats voted to repeal the Health Care bill. This is nothing more than hypocritical BS. Many of us have demanded that if our Health Care is repealed ALL legislatures need to opt out of their Federal Funded Health Care that We the People pay for. When this was proposed, they were quick to put in place a mandate that prohibits them from loosing their health care. Hypocrites and liars. They aren't able to screw us over because it will be stopped in the Senate and President Obama will veto any attempt to take it away from us. However, the Republicans are now committed to block funding for the bill.

The Republicans are already campaigning for money to rail against the Democrats in 2012. We were already sold out this past election. What we need to do is provide funds to our Democrat leaders so we continue to own our rights. It is up to all of us to ensure OUR leaders are not bought. The Republicans can raise all the blood money they want but we will act accordingly and fight against our election going to the highest bidder.

We are responsible to research claims being made these next 2 years to ensure their validity. We can't be led by the nose like the last election. We demand proof.

Name calling, hateful comments and flat out denial of facts will only distract us from the real issues that will benefit all instead of the very few.

Nicely worded. Thanks for posting.

I think 'some' of the GOP leaners are seeing the GOP's true colors (i.e. not voting for 9/11 health care aid or any other no-brainer positive until they received continued tax breaks for their big-ticket supporters; and btw, I AM in that category of taxpayers and find these breaks downright offensive during such a recovery.) These colors keep shining through as they waste time with repealing health care reform.

Democrats are far from perfect. I have serious issues with the Dems and with Obama in several respects, but I completely respect the fact that Obama is getting S**T DONE.

Who knows? Perhaps these Faux News addicts will realize that we've been "socialists" for a long time now (government postal service, education, etc... all of which rang with the "socialism" outcry when first proposed.)

On the other than, most are not too bright and take Beck's word as gospel.

.. DAVE..for 35 yrs my employer paid for health care .. in 2003 the employees were asked to pick up some of the cost .. which they did ...in 2008 .. the employees now pay 90 % of the cost and get less insurance.. thanks to the deregulation of the Bush Years.. if your worse off now wait until the GOP repeals HCR and goes back to business as usual with Million $ bonuses for the pharma and insurance CEOs

Louis, your post is sad.
Dave in Dayton - being from Ohio too, we are feeling the pain as well. Our rates only went up 31% (normally 15% or less in the last 5 years, and once we actually were reduced 4%, but I'm sure the Liberals don't want to hear that!) and we were forced to change our plan to keep insurance. I read an article yesterday saying this year will have the highest increase in rates in the last 5 years. I'm not looking forward to this, if it is true, then our company will no longer be able to sponsor a plan. Take a look at the Ohio High Risk Pool. That will be my only hope, after I'm out of insurance for 6 months, (since I have a pre-existing and won't be able to buy personal insurance that I can afford.) The Insurance company the state is using is the worst for our area. Most of the providers in our county won't even take that company. I really want to look at the specifics of the plan. It may be not worth the premiums, (which for me will be an increase of 400% from what I am currently paying at the company.) (I could pay out of pocket for my current care and be money ahead, I would only be hurting if I had a relapse.) I am all on the bandwagon to repeal Obamacare. So far, it has only hurt small companies like the one I work for, with no relief in sight.
Horace, all the mandates that have been put into effect so far has increased the premiums. Where do you think the money is going to come from to pay for kids up to age 26, no cap on lifetime limits, kids with pre-existing conditions, and who is going to pay for the time involved in extra compliance needed for Obamacare? All the changes COST.

I am not surprised the GOP approval rating is dropping, given their political tactic. Basically, if you preach doom and gloom, your prediction needs to come true for people to trust you. The GOP has been yelling about fire and brimstone for the past 2 years, just a few days ago Palin said that Obama and the left will "bring America to it's knees." That's great, Sarah . . . except for one major problem. When you say America is falling, but the country is actually improving, you loose all credibility.

This is common sense, people. If you predict the fall of our civilization, but things are actually improving, you just look like that crazy guy on the corner yelling "the end is here".

Willowbrook and Dave -

The HCR has not gone into effect, so any increase you are seeing comes directly from your insurance company. In fact, the HCR would prevent these types of premiums hikes, but the GOP is trying to repeal it. So Obama's bill would help stop your premium increases, and the GOP repeal would allow for these huge spikes to continue.

I can not understand why you support repeal while you complain about insurance premium increases at the same time. The bill would help you, it will stop those increases. The GOP will NOT help you, they will allow premiums to skyrocket without thinking twice about it.

Obama has been trying to work with republicans from the start. Just because they never offered real solutions (no isn't compromise) doesn't mean he hasn't been "jazzed" all along. Sounds like the republicans are just starting to reach across the ... oh wait, no they aren't.

Willowbrook "Horace, all the mandates that have been put into effect so far has increased the premiums. Where do you think the money is going to come from to pay for kids up to age 26, no cap on lifetime limits, kids with pre-existing conditions, and who is going to pay for the time involved in extra compliance needed for Obamacare? All the changes COST."

You do realize there are lots of factors that go into the cost of health insurance right? One of them, has to do with how many people in that given state are insured by your provider. As more people lose their insurance, the premiums rise for the ones who still have it. Did you know that Cleveland ranks 3rd in population loss - in the entire united states? Did you know that 4 Ohio Cities ranked in the top 10 of population loss?

It's fare more likely the massive increases experienced in Ohio have more to do with that, then the HCR.
This would make more sense, considering other states arent experiencing the same massive rate hikes as you are...despite being "hit" with the same changes forced by HCR...of which, one of them greatly benefits YOU PERSONALLY, not being able to be denied coverage due to a pre-existing condition.

I am insured out of california w/ aetna, my rates are much lower than the rest of my coworkers who are insured through Blue Cross out of Illinois...and a coworker mentioned that her rates, though they had a massive increase this year too - were still much lower than another family member who is insured through Blue Cross michigan (we've experienced population loss too!)

But, its not just population loss...its health care coverage loss. As you noted, increase have been happening for quite some time. YOU havent been pushed out yet...but other small employers have, long before HCR was even a thought.

My mother used to own and operate a public radio station 10 years ago...she had to cut dental, vision, and leave a bare bones crappy health plan in place that cost an arm and a leg...10 YEARS AGO...i mean, how on earth was HCR affecting her back then?

Answer, its not HCR...in fact, HCR is here because we are trying to save people like you, and everyone else, who's about to lose their health insurance, or already has...

I can not believe you. How can you say that the President is doing a great job when his Administration ( and his Chicago Gang) are privately working on deals to sell out America and private sector jobs, free enterprise, and "dumbing down" our military while people like you are still babbling about the Busch Administration. How can you support a President that steals from our Grandchildren before they are even born?

Health Care Reform needed to start with the trial lawyers, not the Insurance Industry, but of course the lawyers are shielded by high contributions to the Washington Insiders. It is more of a Country Club in DC where America (meaning OUR Representatives who are elected to REPRESENT US) should be conducting the Country's Business, not padding their war-chests for re-election and accepting sweetheart deals. Their votes should not be sold to the highest bidder!

And you further state the President is getting trouble from the right? He started this battle long before you. I suspect that you and Mr. Obama are wondering around all smiles and looking at the country through rose colored glasses. He, and I mean Mr. Obama, refused to take the blame for his failed stimulus program, putting the fault at the foot of the past President and his Administration, when if you look at when the mess truly started was when the Democrats (like yourself) took control of both houses, and had Bleating Heart Liberals Like Princess Pelosi and Dingy Harry mandating who's agenda would be presented to the floor.

Have you figured out why the Dem's took a beating in November? It is because of the Obama Agenda that was "shot-gunned" through both houses and immediately signed into law. Come on, I was born at night, but it sure wasn't last night. How could a two-thousand plus page bill on health care reform be written in that short amount of time and become law? I believe it was because after some closed door arm twisting and shifty deals to law makers for their support. Princess Pelosi said, and I quote, " you have to pass it to see what is in it."

That kind of mentality (or rather dim-witted mentality)seems to follow all of the liberal democrats, and I suspect you are one.

55% want obamacare repealed,,I feel the same 55% will vote against him come 2012

Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:32 AM EST REPOST FROM COWARDS
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL Comment collapsed by the community
Poor Joey & JoAnna - ALWAYS a day late and a couple of fries short of a Happy Meal!

From yesterday:

Let me be the first to say that this is WRONG!

I don't care if you have a (D) or an (R) after your name!

But, therein lies the difference - I'm willing to say that in this political climate the hate speech & rhetoric needs to be toned down... WAY DOWN!

While the Republicans are running around the country staging a pity party for themselves!

WHAT was up with the Today Show giving one of the hate mongers in chief, non other than Glen Beck air time this morning?

Thankfully, I left the house before I was subjected to the 'why is every one picking on me' routine!

#1 - Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:00 PM

Oh and... How about the tea bagger & his Chains of Obamacare comment?

Anything to add? ***CRICKETS***

24!#1.4 - Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:34 AM EST

@ Cali, Obamacare was signed in March, our renewal date is August 1, and yes, the initial changes were in effect when we were in the renewal process. Not all companies have renewal dates the coincide with the calendar year. Additionally, our broker shared with us that before the bill was signed, the renewal %'s were 12-15%. That doubled after the bill was signed. So yes, some companies were feeling the effect of Obamacare in 2010. Believe me, I have been in contact with my Legislators and sharing with them the facts concerning the effect Obamacare has had on our company. And I will continue to give them updates. Bottom line, I would like to see reform take place. Not a poorly designed, back breaking take over written by those who don't understand business. (I.E. Just because they say to do it, doesn't mean we will be able to AFFORD to do what they say.)

As a side note, rates do vary widely state to state, which is why I always say that I'm from Ohio. In Ohio currently, it is very difficult to get any provider to give a decent quote for small businesses. RIght now, we are stuck with 1 company. All the other quotes we received this year were at least 58-189% more than what we were paying. We are out of other choices, and there will be no choice but individual policies for our employees is we are hit with another year of doubly increased premium increases. Obamacare has decreased the choices we have for the short term and probably for the long term as well. We work and pay for our care, we don't want to be part of the nanny state.

So far, it is clear that the small number of Tea Party officeholders are successfully bending more moderate House Republicans, and the GOP House leadership, to their will. The HCR repeal vote is one example. There will be more.

However, remember that the TP officeholders represent a small share of both the electorate and of all elected officeholders. At some point, pursuing their extremist agenda is going to start costing the GOP even more than has aleady happened, as shown by the polls. At that point, the GOP is going to fracture into blocs, with the Tea Party ideologues at odds with other Republican officeholders. Whether this involves a return to the kind of malicious rhetoric used in the recent past is unclear.

More worrisome is how that division will affect the ability of House leadership to get anything accomplished. It is probable that the first fracture will accompany debate and voting on the debt ceiling extension. The extension will indeed be passed, but it most likely will take place of the several "dead bodies" of the ideologues on the right (purely in the rhetorical sense of their die-hard stand).

Such antics are not going to play well in Peoria, folks.

Joe in Albany, the reason the Republicans are calling out the senator for the Nazi comparison is that you should never compare the destruction of millions of Jews to a simple issue (health reform) that people disagree about.

Destruction of millions of people =/= disagreeing on an issue.

And most Americans - who have no specific affiliation (including myself mind you) HATE the health care reform, particularly being forced to do it. Our business has severely kept costs down in order to deal with the costs and not kick any of us out. Any thing that has to create severe cuts and such in order to NOT lose jobs - especially in a time we do not need to lose jobs, is NOT A GOOD THING.

Obama and his allies in Congress have spent the last two years GOVERNING --- passing a historic slate of ambitious legislation including nuclear arms reduction, a new START treaty, ending Don't Ask Don't Tell, pay equality for women, new credit card reporting requirements, a massive stimulus to keep the economy from slipping into a depression, the largest middle class tax cut in our nation's history, massive Wall Street reform, and, yes, health care reform like Democrats have been trying to accomplish since the 1950s.

NOW he's turning his attention to doing some actual politics.

And when he does, he's completely unstoppable. He'll be re-elected easily, and anyone who decides to run against him is just going to be the cow on the tracks.

Well, it would seem that the Congresswoman getting popped in the head was just the kind of "bump" Obama needed.

Didn't we hear someone on MSNBC say that Obama NEEDED an event like Oklahoma City?

Lay off the intoxicating conspiracy theories there Mike...and you might want to hand your car keys to a friend for the next few hours until you sober up.

Dear Mike,

You have been served, sir.

Dear John,

Well played, sir.

Dave from Dayton

Have you not have insurance for more than 2 years? Rates always rise, and sometimes they are real eye popping hikes. Mine doubled during the 1990's, doubled in the 2000's - and mine actually didn't go up this year - which was nice and kind of surprising. I work for a company with more than 15,000 employees - and our rates are already ridiculous enough if you ask me so...but maybe we got a good deal this year? You might be working for a company who offers terrible benefits or is cutting benefits (at your expense) to increase their profits, or....maybe you are just making things up. Who knows.

If you aren't making things up, and if your rates have actually doubled - "universal math style" [Rate X 2 = New Rate] and not rhetorical doubled [Rate + $50 = New Rate] - this is something you should report to your local/state agencies. Most states regulate insurance rates, and you may be a victim.

Not many responders are understanding how health insurance works regardless of whether HCA will be good for you or not. Lets start with the basic facts. The easist way to explain it is in terms of the corporate employment context. A company lets use IBM as an easy example, covers all of its employees with medical insurance through an insurance company lets say its Blue Cross Blue Shield. IBM designs and tells Blue Cross what type of benefits it will cover, pregnancy, mental health, prescription drugs, copays, deductibles etc (not the insurance company). Then IBM has in the aggregate lets use $100 million of total medical claims (I am sure its actually in the billions but for example) in a given year. Of that $100 million, generally employers cover 60-80% of the expenses (non union where employers sometimes cover 100%) so lets say IBM will cover 75%. So IBM has an expense on their books for $75 million for that year and the employees in the form of insurance premiums collected in the payroll checks, in the form of co-pays and deductibles and out of network payments pay for the remaining $25 million in the aggregate. The insurance company, blue cross, blue shield doesnt pay a dime. Sometimes in an HMO context its a fixed payment and the insurance company will take some risk of expense but in almost all cases, the insurance company is not the bad guy, they are the administrator of the plan taking a fee for administering the plan. Sometimes the fees can add as much as 30% to the cost of the plan but their expenses to administer the plan provide a net bottom line margin of about 7% to the insurance company. So if you add HCA to this equation and require employers to add dependants to the age of 26, cover a variety of covered illinesses, preexisting conditions and on and on, the medical costs of IBM have to go up which means that in our 75/25 split example above, each employees medical insurance, co pays etc must go up as a result of HCA.

Now we if apply this in the aggregate for the entire country and if truly realize that all insurance, employers or the government is doing is splitting up the entire medical costs of our nation no different than splitting up the medical expenses of the employees of IBM, its impossible for HCA not to increase the cost to each and everyone of us. You cant add 30 million people to the insurance rolls without increasing the costs, you cant require coverage of a variety of types of claims without increasing the costs so the real question is who is going to pay for it. Its not whether costs are going up but who is paying. You cant say the insurance companies which is what HCA tried to do because they already only make 3-7cents of every dollar on profit. If you push the costs to insurance companies and ask them to reduce their profit margins, you are really just asking the shareholders of these companies to pay which many or most are public which means you are asking everyone with a 401(k) plan or investments in mutual funds to pay because it will just reduce the value or share price of these companies. If you ask employers, you are really just asking each and every consumer of such employer's product to pay because it becomes a cost of doing business which really is just a sneaky way to tax everyone. And finally if you ask the government to pay the increased cost, you really are just asking the 50% who pay income taxes to pay the tab.

Its too bad this becomes a partisan republican/democrat debate even on comment site because everyone misses the point. The real questions should be and I assume there will be differences of opinion but its how do we actually make a difference in the cost equation. HCA did not address how do we reduce medical cost increases and so anyone who says HCA will reduce expenses is truly making it up because it cant be true. There needs to be a debate on how we reduce runaway medical cost increases. For example, is it truly cheaper to provide insurance to the uninsured versus providing the uninsured medical care when they need via clinics and hospitals. My guess is there is a solution somewhere in this. Another example of cost reduction would be tort reform. There are a ton of issues and variables in the cost equation that never get discussed. The second big issue for debate that creates a ton of divisive opinion is who gets to be the medical decision maker. So many democrats want to trust our government to decide how to divy up who, how and what gets covered across the medical spectrum. HCA puts more of the decision making power in the hands of government. Its certainly not a takeover though like the republicans claim. Republicans generally want the decision making in the hands of employers and the insurance companies administering the plans under regulatory guidance.

So all of you who keep stating incorrect facts and conclusions regarding medical insurance, this might be a good place to start

Kirk, an interesting post, But there is a basic error. Small employers do not tell their provider what they are going to provide in the way of a plan. There is very little choice, except for a little wiggle in prescription plans, sometimes. Additionally, each state tells the providers what Mandates must be on every plan, regardless of company size. The company can't take them off. But your end result is true. We cannot supposedly add 30 million people without increasing the cost. But I will put to you there will be a new pool of uninsured that were previously insured as the plan pushes them out of the market. There are ways now to reduce costs that have nothing to do with Obamacare. First, stop all care for Illegals. They are not paying into the system, they are here as lawbreakers. If they lost all the freebies they were getting at the expense of the American Taxpayer, they would be less likely to remain here. It would be a win-win for Americans. If the Illegals left, there would be more jobs for Americans and more Americans with access to company health care, thereby reducing the pool of uninsured. That is only one example, but probably the one that will help American's the most. We do not have a bottomless basket of money from which to pay for this. The sooner those that support Obamacare figure this out, the better for everyone. We need true reform and intelligent use of the funds and programs already in existence, nothing more.

Kirk - you do a great job in your post explaining the current Healthcare Delivery Model that we employ in the United States. This model has not changed much in MANY years. THis model is based on the fact that the employer will pay a reasonable amount for the employee's well being.

Before HMOs, the cost of this health care was borne by the employer. The insurance company set a rate of what it would insure the employees of that company for and honoured that rate, taking into account catastrophic illnesses. All members of the family were covered by these policies. If you went to the doctor, your complete stay was covered and in most case, the prescriptions were too.

Then, the era of 'Managed Care' was ushered in when SOMEONE decided that a middleman was needed to 'arbitrate' the rising cost(s) of provider bills. It was sold as a program that would save money for all involved, and the cost would be minimal.

As we can see, that 'middleman' has morphed into HMOs, PPOs, EPOs and God knows what else.

The cost of healthcare still rises, as the doctors raise their rates to compensate for the 'contract' that they have with the insurers, and the patient gets caught in the middle, in most cases arguing for the provider against the insurance company who refuses to pay for the services, even though the premium has been paid.

This model also treats prevention like a scourge. If you look at most insurance policies, there is no money for training or information on how to eat correctly; there IS money - lots of it - for those who become diabetic from eating the wrong foods. There is money for laproscopic band surgery to help some lose weight when a simple regimen prescribed by a doctor COULD have prevented the need for surgery in the first place.

The current healthcare delivery model is BROKEN. We CANNOT sustain this model with the changes in our society, and our society is changing rapidly. What we need is a NEW model that funds preventative care, and treats the catastropic illiness as an EXCEPTION instead of the RULE.

A change in this model will also change the business model that insurance companies have gotten rich off of for YEARS. Old habits will die hard because insurance companies love their money, and if it means you have to die so they maintain their bottom line, then so be it.

Now, before you go railing on about how 'liberal' I am, I have been in the healthcare field in a variety of capabilities for 15 years, and I have seen people die because they did not have insurance to cover the procedures that they direly needed. I have seen dirty doctors do the absolute minimal amount for their patients while emptying the patient's bank account. I have seen doctors send little old ladies on Medicare to collections because they were'nt getting their money 'fast enough'. I have seen the 'bill cutters' at work up close and personal, and the 'experts' that make the medical necessity descisions at these entities are mostly Register Nurses (some without licenses) and Nurse Practitioners, under the direction and auspices of a 'real' medical doctor.

We need to look at ALL aspects of our healthcare and throw out the old, busted methologies and bring in new, common sense methodologies. I think that young people in our society 'get it', and they are seeing the graft and corruption that occurs with people's lives and are working to do something about it.

Let's hope so, because the baby boomers - the ones that DON'T want to see this fixed, will be a victim of their own 'success'.

I dont think its an error, I just didnt address your issue but its the same basic methodology. Small employers either choose to be in bigger pools or buy plans with the benefits they pick. I agree there are always mandates that impact coverage which therefore impact cost. Small employers do the same thing in that the spread this purchase price amoung their employees and pick up a part of the cost themselves. If the total medical costs of the employees in one year exceeds the amount of the purchase price for the plan, this employer will be experience rated and the cost of the plan will jump accordingly the following year to cover the cost.

I do agree with you that illegal aliens place a tremendous burden our medical system, not just in terms of cost but in terms of resources. At any county not for profit hospital, basic care, pregnancy care etc is provided at premium costs because if they cant pay it just increases the cost of the procedure for everyone else. The cost side of the equation is where everyone needs to focus and I just dont understand how the people who comment on this board somehow think that the cost of providing medical care just disappears some where. The aggregate cost of medical care is a very known quantity and it has to be paid somewhere it just doesnt disappear. The comments people make on this site that HCA reduces everyones medical costs is just so out there it defies common sense and logic. Unless you reduce services, it cant reduce costs. It either costs the medical community and who wants the average skilled person (including me) to be providing sensitive medical services eg brain surgery or any surgery so I am definitely not in favor of reducing doctor salaries and reimbursements. I want the free market system attracting the best and brightest. If we take it from the insurance companies or drug companies etc you are really taking it from all the shareholders who own the companies in their 401(k) plans or as a tax in the cost of the product or you take it from taxpayers. Its a zero sum game, the costs are paid somewhere so all the people here who think it just goes somewhere just dont get it

The dinasaur media shilling for 0bummer - who is surprised. They write an Op/Ed piece and act like it is news. IF and its a big IF 0bummer has rebounded at all it is because he was out of the country in India and then on his umpteenth vacation. People don't want his brand of socialism whether it be 0bummercare or the take of GM.

The only change in political winds is anger that started with white males in their 50s who want to "take back their country" to earlier times when things benefited them more (think Mad Men, or alpha baboons in Dr. Sapolsky's book). Nonetheless, the country is changing and there is nothing that will stop that change in the years ahead.

While fear-mongering politics (and talk radio) appeal to the conservative nature of people, it is not to say the country is becoming more conservative. If voting was mandatory, we would see that conservatives are just more vocal, and especially older Americans who are more likely to vote.

If President Obama is no longer being called a socialist, it may be because people are beginning to realize that right-wing plutocrats are the real threat. Likewise, the GOP's short honeymoon may be due to people realizing that Republicans don't really have a clue how to govern. The Tea Party candidates are even more disappointing since they all have lobbyists as their chief of staff now.

We are still waiting for Republicans to unveil their "replace" solutions in their grandstand gimmick to repeal health insurance reform. And we're still waiting to learn how Teapublicans plan to balance the budget. We haven't heard anything credible about job creation.

Even Ben Stein says it isn't possible to reduce deficits with spending cuts, and feels the rich should be paying more taxes right now. An interesting thing Ben Stein said today is that other than the oil industry, the rich are Democrats and he can't understand why Republicans are hell bent of continuing tax breaks for these folks.

You people, regardless of your political preference, are overly swayed by the media. Did you all not notice the Chinese flag behind barack? "We the People", does it have meaning/purpose? You are all gullible, the job creation thing is nothing more than another political attempt to get re-elected/favorable ratings. Face facts, the jobs that were sent overseas are gone forever. You morons do not learn, so I am certain you will re-elect anyone, all they have to do is say what you wanna hear, regardless of how it negatively impacts us. You all do not wanna face facts about what Iraq and Afghanistan wars are really about. Healthcare should not take precedence when a whole class of people are being destroyed, the economy is only looking a lil bit better because Americans buy everything, even if it serves no real purpose within one's household......when was the last time you bought something that was manufactured in America?

Navy Disabled: And the list goes on and on.

Yes it does. And how is all this getting paid for? With massive tax increases and deficit spending 1) On the individual - each person in the country will be forced to pay thousands of dollars to buy insurance they may not want, or they may not be able to afford. 2) Capital gains taxes go from 15% to 23.4%, that will certainly slow the private investment in our country. Dividend taxes go from 15% to 43%, another economic disaster. 3) Head taxes on employees will force businesses to pay thousands of dollars per employee if they don't offer health insurance 4) The rest of the cost will be thrown on to the deficit, part of the $1.5 trillion deficits Obama has been running for his time in office.

And the parents insuring adult "children" until they are 26 - Does that include the childrens children too? Just ask'n.

Well said Navy:

I've been watching GOP/TP representatives trying to explain why they should have government healthcare, but not for the middle class. I see a lot of standing on one leg and stuttering. Somehow they think they deserve it, but the middle-class; not so much.

Oh, and the business about spending money. When the CBO numbers don't fit their agenda, the numbers are bad. When the numbers fit their agenda, they accept them. And somehow, money is more important than human life.

Final House vote to pass Obamacare: 219-212.

Final House vote to repeal Obamacare: 245-189.

Hmmm...

Not everybody is in the mandate, small businesses with less than 50 employees is are excluded. Also small business get a 35% tax credit on their Health Insurance payments. Their are also exclusions to the mandate for people of limited financial means, we are talking about the HCR and not the Tax Cut Deal so stop trying to shift the focus. And a big part of President Obama's deficit comes from paying off the record deficit of the previous administration, a point the GOP keeps forgetting. Like the two unfunded wars, the two unfunded tax cuts, the unfunded prescription plan and the reduced regulations all have cots and we are still paying off that debt and yes it is included in President Obama's current deficit. At least you can own up to your own responsibility in this mess and stop trying to peg President Obama with what you guys did before him.

No leading economist of note claims that the HCR Law is a Budget Killer, in fact they claim the opposite.

Now that the House has passed the HCR repeal Harry Reid is saying it's going nowhere in the Senate. In fact, the buzz is that Reid won't even allow the bill to come to the floor for a vote. Hmmm, kind of gives new meaning to the "party of no" eh?

So tell us Harry, what are you afraid of? If the angels are on your side on this issue, then surely you and your buds will vote this thing down bigtime. Oh wait, I'm making a really big assumption there. I'm assuming that the gang of Democratic senators up for reelection in 2012 will have no qualms about supporting this unpopular law and would be happy to stand up and be counted in its favor. Silly me, those folks don't want to touch that vote with a ten foot pole.

Which brings us to an interesting place in this whole sordid affair. First, the Democrats were forced to resort to legislative chicanery and CBO gamesmanship to pass HCR in the first place. Now, they don't want to hold a vote to repeal because they can't take the chance that repeal just might pass in the Senate.

Does anyone still wonder why the Republicans have the high ground on this issue? Particularly when in our new era of civil discourse the very same Democrats responsible for this boondoggle are calling the Republicans Nazis? You can't make this stuff up.

In fact, the buzz is that Reid won't even allow the bill to come to the floor for a vote. Hmmm, kind of gives new meaning to the "party of no" eh?

Karma really is a b!tch isn't it Bill?

Harry was an excellent student the last two years watching the 'Masters of NO'! ;o)

And you're not seriously claiming the 'high ground' are you?

A measly 25% believing Republicans can bring the 'right' change according to the latest poll.

Health Care Reform is Law !

Health Care Repeal goes into File 13, with the rest of the Trash!

Hmmmmmmmmmmm !

Yep, let the Republicans remind everyone of why they "took a shellacking" in the first place. The American public has forgotten about how rigid and held to the far right wing mantra that they really are. Feisty, won't the poll dancers be out today as well?

Bill, Fairfax, VA: In fact, the buzz is that Reid won't even allow the bill to come to the floor for a vote.

The Democrats - The Party of No!

It doesn't matter to Harry what he does, he just got re-elected by a state with 15% unemployment, so he knows what ever he does will be tolerated by the nitwit voters in his state.

What Harry is protecting are the 23 Democratic Senators coming up for re-election in 2012. If they end up on the record voting against repeal, they'd pretty much be kissing their jobs good-bye.

Navy Disabled: No leading economist of note claims that the HCR Law is a Budget Killer

What "leading economist" predicted the housing crisis of 2007? None you say.

So perhaps these "leading economists" don't see everything so crystal clear, correct?

What went out with the trash last November was 53 House (along with majority control) and 2 Senate Democratic incumbents, Rick.

Sharron wasn't the only Angle Harry has figured out!!

Feisty, won't the poll dancers be out today as well?

Her absence isn't too conspicuous is it? lol

Must still be licking her wounds from the smack down Houston! gave her! ;o)

As you can see, these new #'s are not agreeing with their propaganda... not one bit!

Looks like poor JS1 is starting to panic too!

Mixed, HealthCareReform is "The Law od the Land"

Still

Yesterdays news, is Barking from an Empty DogHouse, just where the GOP find themselves!

I don't see them doing anything about jobs.

Where's that balanced budget we were promised?

The House has been emptied of 63 Democrats, Rick.

NDD:

It did not take long.

And yes every republican/tea party voted to repeal including 3 democrats down from the 13 on the previous vote. What does that tell you? to coin a phrase; HMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

It tell us that the GOP does not want the middle class to have the same Health Insurance benefits they have. It tells us they (the republican/tea party) are not listening to the people who not want the HCR Law repealed. They are telling us it is all about them and not America.

John B., Des Moines IA: I don't see them doing anything about jobs.

The private sector does things about producing jobs John, if the government lets them. The government cannot be the economic engine that produces jobs, and we've seen that to be true the last 2 years. But with the government increasing regulations and taxes to pay for it's deficit spending, the private sector cannot produce those jobs. Those are the areas the GOP House is now focused on.

I keep reading poll after poll after poll and all of them includung this one still show everything is split right down the middle just like it has been for two, sorry make that 20 years.

What's the big story here. Seems niether side can claim any kind of "victory of opinion."

Nothing has changed. In case no one here bothers to check, the percentage of Republicans to Democrats in this country is essentially equal. Roughly 35% to 35%

Coming here reminds me of that old Star Trek episode where this creature kept everyone pi$$ed off and fighting yet kept the numbers equal so that the fight would have to continue forever.

Lady JoAnna

The private sector does things about producing jobs John, if the government lets them. The government cannot be the economic engine that produces jobs, and we've seen that to be true the last 2 years

CORRECTION: You have not seen the jobs. At least that's what you say.

I see that the going belief right now is that the Republicans want to end HCR because they're at the beck and call of the private health insurance lobby - not that that's necessarily untrue, but hear me out for a sec.

Am I mistaken in remembering the upset Americans in general had when the decision was made to include health insurers in the creation of HCR in the first place? Was that not on the initiative of Democrats? Why is the argument for repeal or reform automatically painted as the GOP and the GOP alone sacrificing the taxpayer to the insurance firms? Shouldn't the status quo and all it's participants take the blame? Why continue to reduce this issue to Red vs. Blue?

Who's responsible for the inclusion of heavy fines and penalties should one not acquire insurance? Who's responsible for allowing the public option to fall by the wayside? Who's responsible for not allowing citizens to opt out if they so wish?

Also: I'm not a fan of all these claims that merely because HCR is currently law that it somehow carries the kind of moral force behind it that demands submission - when did we honestly start believing that the legality of a thing in any way, shape or form is at all indicative of the ethical imperative of a thing?

"Those are the areas the GOP House is now focused on."

No, they're focused on a symbolic vote that will result in not changing anything.

Thanks for playing.

Obviously you don't understand basic economics or The Constitution. Just where is it spelled out that the federal government has the right to force any citizen to pay for or buy anything. Give me the reference in the document . If you can, then I will join you. The government has scewed up the insurance business by their intrusion into it. It will only get worse. If they violate The Constitution at just one point they can and will do it somewhere else. Which one do you want it to be? Free speech, 2nd amendment, unlawful search and seizure, freedom of religion. It seems to me that many on these boards will follow their party no matter what. When they play sports it is always by the rule book. The Constitution of the United States is the law of the land our "rule book". Any party or politician that breaks those rules is wrong. The problems we have in this country started decades ago. It will take time and a lot of hard work to right the wrongs of both parties.

Exodite - I don't completely disagree with your assessment, but l think another look is warranted.

The GOPer and the Tea Partyers had a GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY to put THEIR stamp on the HCR law by looking at what people did NOT like about it and craft a bill that would 'fix' the issues.

The funny thing is that a AMENDMENT bill like this - from the House - would have PROBABLY been entertained in the Senate, and if all had gone well, ended up on President Obama's desk where he POSSIBLY would have SIGNED IT. It would have signaled that the President was willing to work with the GOPers and the Tea Partyers and there would have been good, solid legislation to support their claims.

Unfortunately, we have inept GOP leadership that not only trips over it's own RIGHT feet, it shoots itself in those right feet as well.

You have to ask yourself 'WHY?' when we are seeing the antics in the House. They have already squandered this opportunity... how many other opportunities are they going to squander before the electorate says 'enough!'?

Navy,

Wasn't America supposed to love it after they saw what was in it? Wasn't that the mantra?

So, why not let the Senate take the vote and settle it?

Wouldn't this prove your point? Would it not shut up the Repubs with such a rebuke?

Got the guts to call for a vote, Navy?

Pietro: As always, thank you for taking the time to reply to my posts.

I am not a fan of political posturing and that is pretty much all that the vote in the House was. One of the things I stated back during the rancor leading to the November mid-term was a hope (however naive and futile!) for the Republicans to propose a reform bill to HCR, since repeal - though very much desired by the majority - is a wild unlikelihood.

I do very much agree that the GOP will be as disappointing this coming Congressional session as the Democrats were in the last session.

My big point here, however, is that we ought to stop believing (and waiting) for someone to come along and save us. We are the only ones who can saves ourselves; certainly no one wearing a tie, a three-piece and sporting executive-styled hair. Salvation doesn't exist at the head of a podium.

Navy,

And the ranting and raving continues.

Who passed a law that mandates that all Americans have to purchase health insurance? Democrats

Who will continue to profit from this law? Insurance Companies

What has happened just this year to insurance premiums? Rising 30% in some areas

Where is the lower cost in health insurance? Where is the competition? Why will people be fined by our government if they don't purchase some sort of insurance from a for "profit" company?

Are we really going to be able to purchase the same type of insurance that our federal employees have? Doubt that

The deal was made between the Democrats and the insurance companies--there are no cost regulations, the insurance companies can't deny people because of health issues or pre-existing conditions--but you will still have to pay for the insurance, you will still have to pay a higher price for that insurance.

Did they place a regulation that makes insurance companies pay for claims? So insurance can still deny your claim until they have to really pay. Where's the help?

Keep telling yourself that it is the GOP that is in bed with the insurance companies? When you really get down to the facts, it is a democratic affair.

Like it or not, the Tea Party is here to stay. The Dems/Repubs are more in alignment and harmony than they will ever admit, and both should be subject to scrutiny all of the time. The tea party can change it's name, but it is still going to be there. I am one of them. I simply don't trust either party to not take care of themselves first, and the American people they serve last. I have voted both Dem. and Rep. in my long lifetime, but frankly, I no longer recognize the landscape of either party. This is not about radicalism or anything like it. It's a call for a return to common sense, which hopefully, is the best way to run our own homes.

Mr BigBear62 post#2.28

Good post. I've tried relaying these same points to people on here but to no avail. I generally just get cussed out and called names when I do.

The mantra here is "If Obama says it, it must be so."

I don't think I've ever seen such blind admiration for a politician before. It's really quite a facinating social experiment.

Pietro,

Haven't seen you on here in a while. Hope things are going well with you. How about those signs in Columbus from the TCU Alumni?

As for the Health Care Law, some parts I agree with, even agree with you that amendment could be made to make it better for all. I am still a firm believer that the Democrats are more in bed with the insurance companies than the GOP--mainly because this law benefits them, especially when people are going to be mandated to purchase insurance from a "for Profit" company.

Our HCL does not limit the insurance companies profit, it does allow for pre-existing conditions, but don't the people have to pay extra for that? IDK. Does it keep insurance companies for denying claims, one of the biggest problems in the insurance industries.

If they really wanted to help out, then they should regulate the increase in premiums, to no more than 3% per year. At least then most people could afford the increase, but 30% in some areas.

Hey Big Bear,

I have been really busy. I haven't seen the TCU signs in Columbus because everything is covered in snow. Yuck.

As far as the insurance issue is concerned, the insurance companies are NOT liking the new regulations and they are doing all they can to get as much money as they can before they will be forced to follow the new regulations.

They do what all of us do when we are faced with legislative issues - they make a phone call to their Congresscritter, no matter what side ofthe aisle they are on.

My issue with insurance companies is this - there seems to be a lack of foresight or planning on how their business is to be conducted. They HAD to know that at some point, 40-50% premium increases would be looked at the by SOMEBODY (usually the Feds). I guess they figured that they had 'protection' from their paid Congresscritter, and insurance companies were probably assured that they 'indemnified' against any regulations.

I guess it is good to see that these Congresscritters screw EVERYONE, and not just the American Taxpayer.

Now the insurance companies are scrambling to make things 'the way they were'. Insurance companies were COMFORTABLE with that, also known as the 'status quo'.

IN the meantime, they are trying to get as much money as they can to ride out the storm. Notice that you do NOT see the same 'panic' from the Pharmaceutical companies, and BOTH were present at the Health care Reform table when this Law was being drafted.

I posted before, and I will post again - the Drug dealers are better businessmen than the insurance companies. The drug manufacturers gave up a little (loss leader) at the beginning of the negotiations with the Feds and are reaping RECORD profits. The funny thing is that we - the electorate - are HAPPY to pay the monies because we have some sort of insurance that butresses the cost.

The Insurance companies decided to go 'all in' with the GOP and lost their shirts when the HCR law was passed. Now they are mad because their 'gamble' did not pay off.

I do not see the issue of insurance premiums as a right v. left game, Big Bear. There were as many Congresscritters that were Democrats that voted against the HCR Law as their masters asked them to as there were Republicans.

What I DO see is that the overreach by the insurance companies will result in the 'Public Option' or 'Single Payer' legislation that will, in effect, kill the insurance company model as we know it today, putting some very LARGE insurance companies out of business.

I hope all went will with you, your family and the new house over the holidays, Big Bear.

Exo:

I am not a fan of political posturing and that is pretty much all that the vote in the House was. One of the things I stated back during the rancor leading to the November mid-term was a hope (however naive and futile!) for the Republicans to propose a reform bill to HCR, since repeal - though very much desired by the majority - is a wild unlikelihood.

Huh? I think you've been watching Fox too much. All the polls, including the latest MSNBC poll, have consistently shown for months that a majority of the public does NOT want the health care reform law to be repealed. Public opinion is split almost exactly down the middle, and when given the option of changing some parts of the bill along with the choices of "keep" or "repeal," public support drops to a clear minority. It's one thing to disregard the polls, but it's quite another to speak as if you are the voice of "the public."

I received an email this morning from act@credoaction.com. It is for signing a petition telling Boenher to practice what he preaches. It contains a form he needs to out so he can repeal his own health care.

It is a positive way to voice my dissatisfaction with their action to repeal my health care.fill

BigBear;

And your worthless BS continues as well.

Excellent point JBurns, if Congress (speaking for the people of course) wants to eliminate Health Care Benefits, let them start with their own. Let them purchase the fine Health Care afforded to all Americans through the Insurance Company Beurocracy. Just hope they don't have a real medical emergency or they could get dropped!

55% of americans want obamacare repealed and the number keeps growing now that the democrats decided to read the bill.

Navy,

And you call me worthless,

Where is your cut and paste for all the questions above?

Are you saying that the GOP is responsible for passing the health care law?

Are you saying that the GOP passed the health care law that mandates that all Americans purchase health insurance or be fined?

I guess everyone should be happy that their insurance premiums have risen this year, and will continue to rise. And I know they have risen for years. So it is nothing new.

I can't believe that you honestly believe that the Democrats are not in bed with the insurance companies, but then again that would be against you blaming the GOP for everything wrong in this country.

In remarks at the 2010 Legislative Conference for the National Association of Counties, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said, “But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of controversy.”

Just a little cut and paste to make you feel at home:)

witzzz:

55% of americans want obamacare repealed and the number keeps growing now that the democrats decided to read the bill.

No poll that I know of shows anything like that number who want the law repealed. It's generally less than the combined total of people who want the law kept as is or EXPANDED to do more. Witzzz seems to be another practitioner of the Big Lie technique. (To avoid the wrath of the Great Godwin, I won't mention the name of a certain nasty little man in Germany who had a goofy mustache, a bad haircut, and a henchman who also used the Big Lie techique).

JoAnne PA;

Nice to see you this morning and thank you for reminding us about a time that changed history.

JoAnne:

It is sooo good to see you back! To hear you tell he story of January 20, 2009 brings back warm memories. I didn't get to go to D.C., but to hear your story makes all that work worthwhile.

In the past 2 years our President has completed 85% of his campaign promises. FR is correct, the wind is shifting and voters remorse will be present in 2012.

Take care my friend.

Thank you JoAnne for this inspiring post, yes it is good to remember and while I was not there in person, it was a special day with me too. I will gladly work again to reelect this amazing man, he has been worth every second of the time and effort.

Beautifully said, JoAnne PA, good to see you. I continue to have that optimism, excitement I had that day. I was glued to the television that entire weekend watching every pre-inauguration moment covered and watched with great pride Barack Obama become President and Chief.

50 years ago today, John F. Kennedy became President and Chief. That day and the one in 2009, were similarly wonderful moments and I will never forget. Two young presidents with vision, people filled with excitement for what could be, for the possibilities. "Don't let it be forgot, that once there was a spot; for one brief shining moment that was known as Camellot."

Hi JoAnne. How are you? What a lovely post.

Two years ago for me - standing in the wind and freezing cold on the mall. All day. And wouldn't have changed it for the world. My granddaughters still talk about it. Which was the whole point of taking them. It's a great memory for not only me, but more importantly, for them.

President Obama & the First Lady looked so lovely together last night.

You're in our thoughts JoAnne. Always.

_________________

I hope that every American, regardless of where he lives, will stop and examine his conscience about this and other related incidents. This Nation was founded by men of many nations and backgrounds. It was founded on the principle that all men are created equal, and that the rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened.

The heart of the question is whether all Americans are to be afforded equal rights and equal opportunities, whether we are going to treat our fellow Americans as we want to be treated. If an American, because his skin is dark, cannot eat lunch in a restaurant open to the public, if he cannot send his children to the best public school available, if he cannot vote for the public officials who will represent him, if, in short, he cannot enjoy the full and free life which all of us want, then who among us would be content to have the color of his skin changed and stand in his place? Who among us would then be content with the counsels of patience and delay?

~ President John F. Kennedy, June 1963

Hi, JoAnne, thanks for the reminder!

Ron;

Touche', I could not say it better.

In the past 2 years our President has completed 85% of his campaign promises.

Where do you get your numbers Ron?

According to the politifact I read, the numbers look like this:

number percentage
kept 13426%
compromise418%
broken 347%
stalled 7415%
in the works22144%
not yet rated20%

So even adding those he kept with those he compromised on, he's only accomplished 34%. That's a far cry from the alleged 85 you touted. On the flip side, combining stalled and broken yield 22%, which means he could max out at 78%, still short of the 85%.

But even if he has met 85% of his campaign promises in a scant 2 years, he should be done by 2012, so there would be no reason to vote him in for a second term would there?

JoAnne in PA

January 20, 2011 - the two-year anniversary of one of the most incredible days of my life.

JoAnne in PA

That was such a beautifully inspirational two fold account you shared with us.

I agree. No matter what one's political persuasion, the best one can do is help make this land of ours better; rather than tear it down.

Many, many, thanks for you inspirations.

Argh, spacing.

kept 134, for 26%

compromised 41, for 8%

broken 34, for 7%

stalled 74, for 15%

in the works 221, for 44%

not yet rated, 2, for 0%

Excellent post!!

Thanks for sharing those memories, JoAnne---I so wished I could have been there for that historic inauguration.
I don't think I ever knew the words to Hail to the Chief---note how they say we pledge cooperation. I wish everyone could make that pledge.

Hope you are doing well--great to see you here. Will you have Pennsylvania spirit and root for the Steelers Sunday?

I didn't even know that "Hail to the Chief" HAD any lyrics. I learn something every day here.

Welcome back JoAnne PA. Your post brought tears to my eyes.

Pat in Boston, I looked up the Obama Diary last night for the pictures you mentioned. Great site. I realize it's probably shallow of me, but I do enjoy First Lady fashion, and also getting the chance to oogle the White House decorations. The picture of little Sasha visiting the White House on her school trip was priceless. I confess I am enjoying every minute of the Obamas in the White House. Call it hero worship, I don't care, it's just NICE.

Joanna,

So good to see you here! I was there and you have so perfectly captured the mood. It was truly one of the most incredible experiences. Yes, it was cold; but the warmth of the crowd was palpable. I have maintained communication with a lady that I met there and she just sent me a get well card. If one has the capacity, lives can be touched and even changed by a global message of hope.

You see the capacity of so many these days. Truly sad. I hope you are managing with all you have going on. Please be well!

Thank you all for the kind thoughts.

Steeler Fan - My football loyalties over the years have ranged from the Cowboys to the Dolphins to the Patriots and most recently to the Colts. Some would call it fickle. I tend to call it "whoever's playing the Eagles". I don't really know an awful lot about any of the teams still left, except that whenever the Jets play, I can't help thinking "Hmmmm.....Rex Ryan.....Chris Christie......separated at birth?"

Chef Darrell - I like Politifact, too, but my take on their meter is a little different from yours, maybe because my expectations are more realistic. I'm actually pretty satisfied with Compromised, In the Works, Stalled and Not yet Rated, so if you combine them with Kept, you get a solid 93% at this point in time as opposed to only 7% broken. Sure, 100% would be great, but contrary to popular opinion, most of us libs don't see President Obama as some sort of messiah and don't expect perfection.

Amy - I don't care either. I enjoyed watching the ceremonies yesterday - maybe somewhat more than usual, because this is the President and First Lady that I so badly wanted to see in the White House - but no matter who's in office, I just enjoy the whole scene - the rituals, the protocol, (and yes, the clothes!) and I'm always so impressed by our military personnel in these settings. It's all so uniquely "American", and we should all be proud of the image we're portraying to the rest of the world. You're right - it's just NICE.

Clara - Right back at you - I'll see you and Pat and hopefully a few others down on the Mall in 2013.

hail to the thief! america is so blind.

just think about this, hitler was a smooth talker also.

the germans loved him-just before the start of wwII .god obama

has us in toilet,almost 3rd world. obama sucks !!!!!!!! stop

with the koolaid. wake up america.

Thanks for your hate speech tony, you've added a lot to the debate.

Tony:

just think about this, hitler was a smooth talker also.

GODWIN ALERT!!!!

BTW: Ronald Reagan was a "smooth talker," too. What's that make Ronnie in regard to Adolph H.?

Jody:

They do not have a plan. They are just now putting a committee together to see what they should do. One would think that you would have done this before you vote to repeal. Why is this starting to look more and more like another GOP stall tactic to try and get President Obama off the message of creating Jobs in this country and the continued growth of the economy.

Jody good morning, so true.

Yesterday was a sad day for the future of Americans and their wellbeing. The goptp failed miserably in exhibiting leadership, they are all talk and no action. Now where do they go from the corner they've painted themselves into? They are showing themselves to be shallow and vindictive and lacking leadership skills which are not needed to show they have nothing to offer.

What a colossal waste of time and money....our money. Where are the jobs, Speaker Boehner? I trust you spent some of your time last night working on that.

Gingerbread Mamma: This WAS a colossal waste of money! Where are the "teabaggers" and why are they not demanding that this sort of nonsense be stopped, since it cuts into dollars? And Boehner, you promised JOBS, and involve yourself in THIS nonsense? Shows how sincere the Republicans are about spending and jobs, and anything that helps the middle class.

They painted themselves into a corner from the beginning with dishonest rhetoric. Once something is declared evil and monstrous, it is difficult to find the way back to reality. They did a disservice to every American with their nonexistent death panels, killing grandma, government takeover; republican citizens were hurt as well, the very people who trust and believe in them the most. In the process, they denied Americans the right to a honest debate.

Jody, you hit the nail on the head.

The GOPers and the Tea Partyers painted themselves into a corner with all of the rhetoric over the past 2 years. Now, since the GOP leadership never had a plan to begin with, this is their best attempt to 'save face' and try and convince their minions that 'they are doing something' against 'the evil known as Obamacare'.

I refuse to believe that people are THAT stupid.

So what does that say about the GOP leadership? Not much. Nothing has changed except that now they have a little more muscle in Congress to do absolutely nothing. They are still inept and disingenuous. They are still crafty and deceitful. They still have NO INTENTION of doing anything for the people who voted them in, and that is painfully evident that there is NO PLAN to REPLACE 'Obamacare'.

No plan... gee, haven't we played this game with the GOP before?

Well said, everyone. Why should we even believe there's an intent to "replace" the law? Replace it with what? What benefits to the citizenry would be in such a bill?

Seems to me if they intended to "replace" it they'd be willing to tell us of their intentions. I don't see anything going on here except a plan to take away the advantages that ordinary Americans gain from the Affordable Care Act.

Pietro;

Great post and welcome back.

John B.

I agree with you and Pietro. The GOP has not changed their agenda at all. In fact they are stepping it up. They see the reports that the economy is improving and the job numbers as well and have been throughout 2010.

The numbers good enough that now Kyl is trying to take credit for them. He claimed the other day that these improvement were do to the Tax Cut Deal of late December that did not go into effect until this year. What a bold face lie on several fronts. First the timing, how could that have helped all of 2010 when it was not adopted and put into effect until Jan 2011. The parts of the Tax Cut Deal that will grow the economy and create jobs are all democrats ideas, not one is from the GOP. The only thing they have is the Tax Cuts for the richest 2% that neither created substantial jobs nor do they add to the economy. He is wrong on all fronts.

Again we are seeing the GOP agenda. They have no new ideas, the ones they have suck so they try and hijack those from President Obama and then claim then try to claim the credit as it being theirs. This did this with the Pledge to America and the 7 or 8 Health Care provisions that the copied from the current law and pretended that they were their ideas.

Same old same old, nothing changes with these people. Nothing.

The majority of the people in this nation have made it very clear they do not want the Healthcare plan repealed but as usual the Republicans have wasted precious time and our tax payer dollars doing exactly what the country had told them not to do. How rediculously stupid can you get?

Just keep on keeping on Republicans. You are your own worst enemy.

I agree, Jody--I do think the Republicans have not shown leadership but their way has won them seats. Time will tell if this is permanent or not. They see the 2010 elections as a mandate against the Democrats. When I think of them I remember the words of James Carville----"its the economy, stupid!" We'll see what the economy does in the next 2 years but I hear more and more positive anecdotal evidence that things are better. A friend this morning was saying she is so busy that she needs to hire another person----small steps like that add up.

Steve:

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Domestic infrastructure projects should be a high priority for both Democrats and GOP/TP. Eventually we will have to stop kicking the can down the road and get serious about repairing all that is broken.

Steven, Delaware: Do we need to have the private businesses fill these voids for profit or our collective society (governments) with our taxes?

Obama just spend a trillion dollars on infrastructure, and that's all he gets is a "D" to show for it? Recall that Obama ranted all through 2009 about "shovel ready job" this, and "shovel ready job" that, and "Infrastructure, infrastructure, infrastructure!!"

I guess the grade is in on all that nonsense.

Steve:

A very good point and what was the GOP response when President Obama proposed an infrastructure bill that would address a lot of what you said? They of course opposed it and still do.

Steven, Delaware. Great job pointing out our aging infrastructure and what spending money on it could do for the economy. Everyone blusters about taxes, that's just normal but it is beyond me why no one seems to recognize that shared sacrifice can and will do more for the economy, for the people, for the country than trickle down ever has. Nearly 30 years of this attitude and the damage is great. Your post shows just one area where voo doo economics has failed the American people.

JaAnnaSmith 1, maybe you should get out from behind the KeyBoard & Breath some fresh air! It's amazing whatcha might see!

Steven,

Thanks for posting this information. We need to focus time and money on our infrastructure because a strong economy depends on a modern, dependable infrastructure.

It is estimated that we need to spend $2.2 trillion over the next 5 years just to elevate our reliability grade from a “D” to a “B”. Of the $787 billion approved for the stimulus only 9% ($71 Billion) was appropriated for Infra Structure projects.

$71 billion on infrastructure not a trillion as JS1 lies about – 30% of the stimulus was tax cuts – another fact that JS1 ignores.

Obama just spend a trillion dollars on infrastructure, and that's all he gets is a "D" to show for it? Recall that Obama ranted all through 2009 about "shovel ready job" this, and "shovel ready job" that, and "Infrastructure, infrastructure, infrastructure!!"

While I agree that there did and does need to be a whole lot more accountability with the stimulus spending, let's get the facts straight.

The entire act cost about $787 Billion or so. Of that only about $100B went directly to infrastructure. The bulk of the bill went to tax breaks for individuals and corporations, with money also going to education, health care, and low-income assistance.

And I will admit that the government investment in the infrastructure projects themselves should have been better, as the so-called "shovel ready projects" often turned out to be anything but.

BTW, this may be "nickle and dime" stuff, but I was pretty annoyed at all the signs that said "Made possible by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act" How much did those signs alone cost, and how many jobs could have been created by that expense? But then again, did government end up saving jobs for those who make the signs in the first place?

Yeah--I have way too many thoughts.

Dennis, Columbus, Ohio

Man, Thanks Dennis, i saw Joanna say we have spent a trillion in infastructure, i almost fell out of my chair. there are still 6 out of 10 construction workers out of work right now and have been for almost 2 years. your estimates on what we should be spending on infastructure is i think is light, but your estimate does not include the upgrade we need for

electricity upgrades, our grid system is 50 years old, gas mains, sewers, i think the 2.2 trillion only includes roads and bridges.

Michael L,

The “signs” created jobs for small businesses. Isn’t that what the stimulus was supposed to do? On top of that many of the signs were recycled from one project to the next.

Thanks for posting this information. We need to focus time and money on our infrastructure because a strong economy depends on a modern, dependable infrastructure

$71 billion on infrastructure not a trillion as JS1 lies about

So all that ranting by Obama about "shovel ready jobs" was pure nonsense?

Who would have thunk that?

Actually, the lie of shovel ready jobs was shown when Obama started using the money to bail out the fiscally irresponsible state budgets. That carried the states through the last year, but seeing the Obama Economy is still poor, now that money has run out and states are laying people off. So the "Stimulus" stimulated nothing, and we still owe China the money.

The “signs” created jobs for small businesses. Isn’t that what the stimulus was supposed to do?

The stimulus was supposed to stimulate the private economy into high gear, and high levels of hiring. Neither has happened. The stimulus was a failure.

Excellent points all, and Steven thanks for bringing this subject to the table.

As an example of the consequences of inaction look no further than New Orleans. Engineers and weather experts warned for DECADES that the city would be swamped catastrophically in the event of a major hurricane. For DECADES efforts to improve the city's protection were stopped by "Fiscal Conservatives" guarding against "wasteful spending."

Sure enough, the predicted catastrophe happened, as the rules of probability made inevitable. Something that could have been prevented for MILLIONS caused BILLIONS of dollars in damage, not to mention the tragedy of lives lost.

Among other experts, Dutch engineers were brought in to assess the situation and advise on how to make the city safe from any expected level of hurricane. Needless to say the "Fiscal Conservatives" stepped in to ensure that the system would be rebuilt no better than the previous level, already proven inadequate. A few more millions and we could've prevented a recurrence. Instead one of the world's great cities will never be safe, and inevitably will one day fill with water once again.

Jeff,

Correct, you are.

We need to spend $1.5 trillion over the next 20 years to update, expand and create a “Smart Grid” or the number and duration of Black-outs & Brown-outs will increase sharply.

Rather than admit an error she changes the subject when she doesn’t even understand the true meaning of “shovel ready”. Shovel Ready – All the engineering work is done and all the environmental studies are completed thus allowing the contracting bids to be placed. This cuts out the first 6 to 24 months prior to actual construction for any “new” construction.

Dennis:

Great posts. JS1 is running around chasing her tail this morning. When called on her daily misinformation rants she tries to change the subject. Never acknowledging that her information is false. She claimed that unemployment went up to 10% this morning, I am trying to verify that and cannot as of yet. Either she knows something that is not out yet or she is wrong again just as she was on the mandate issue.

People, stop feeding the trolls and they will go away.

JoAnnaSmith1

Thanks for posting this information. We need to focus time and money on our infrastructure because a strong economy depends on a modern, dependable infrastructure

$71 billion on infrastructure not a trillion as JS1 lies about

So all that ranting by Obama about "shovel ready jobs" was pure nonsense?

Joanna Now i know you know everything about everything, but honey, construction sending is my what i do for a living,

71 Billion is chump change in the grand scheme of construction. when the stimulus was passed and i saw there was only 71 billion for construction i knew it was only a stop gap to help keep the business going. the shovel ready jobs you keep harping on were there, but understand that the unemployment rate in the construction industry was more like 40%. those shovel ready jobs are finished, with in 18 months after the stimulus they were finished.

Just in dollars it cost about 100 million to build a 4 lane expressway in both directions say 15 miles long. the reconstruction of the Dan Ryan expressway in Chicago cost 130 million 5 years ago. the project was 10 miles long. Now using that figure 71 billion will only get you about 700 miles of new road, when you have millions of miles of road you see that the 2.2 trillion dollar figure will have a real impact not 71 billion.

we can get our economy going just by investing in infrastructure,

What is so funny to me is when Republicans like Joanna leave out that the stimulus money was supposed to help out infrastructure, BUT Republicans like the governors of Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and South Carolina refused the money! Remember the chant of "its going to hurt our children's future!" Sorry to say, but if you have a job, there is stuff coming out my paycheck that I damn sure didn't vote for. Geesh, I'm only 37. How long has the government been taking Social Security and Medicare out my check? I didn't vote for that! There were shovel ready jobs but the governors of those states used the limelight to futher their political standing. Funny how those same governors, except South Carolina, were begging the President to aid them when BP oil spill happened.

Sorry for the duplicate post - FR has been acting 'weird' the last couple of days...

Whatever is going on it appears to be contained to only the First Thoughts thread!

I noticed that weirdness, too, only on Thoughts.

nadeem:

Kudos, very well stated and accurate.

Will the good numbers continue, only time will tell. We do have reason to believe that the economy and the job market is improving but we also know that the GOP is pulling out every stop to try and reverse this positive trend. Just look at their past deeds and their obstructionist agenda. That has not changed on iota.

I hope both parties have learned a lesson and do work together. One party cannot move this country forward on a continuous basis. One may be able to get it started but it will take both to keep it going.

Well said, nadeem, good points.

It is easy to forget that the first few months of the Obama administration was spent on the economy and job-creating legislation. HCR did not begin in committees until after the ARRA and other legislation that focused on the economy had passed. Before doing additional things that were expensive, it was necessary for time to pass to determine the effectiveness of the stimulus and related bills. The perception for people was driven by the media's focus on the health care debate; they did a poor job of discussing other things that were happening.

IR:

I've missed you. I trust your are back at your mountain home keeping track of all that is happening. That Kennedy legacy and vision was passed on to President Obama by Ted Kennedy. And you are right, the dream of a better America for all Americans lives on.

Good to see you back in "the pit".

IR, great post, especially those personal thoughts. It is always a good idea to glance backwards to see where we are going.

The republicans use JFK's "ask not" line to dismiss the need for social safety nets. The truth is it simply means what can we as a people do together to achieve for our country.

IR, I've been thinking of that speech a lot for the past few days. That call to return something to the nation which makes so much possible still stirs the soul. That call for shared responsibility to society still makes it clear that America was made great through teamwork. That call to reach down with a hand and help the fallen back to their feet is still a reminder that any of us can fall, and we are willing to put our shoulder back against the load if we only get the chance.

That Kennedy legacy and vision was passed on to President Obama by Ted Kennedy.

Oh brother. Gimme a break.

IR:
Outstanding Post. Glad to see you back and hope all is well.

Thanks folks didn’t want the day go by without a little reminder that we’ve all been here before and have so far managed to survive despite all the Apocalyptic visions to the contrary. John Kennedy’s words inspired a generation to bigger and better things. However he was also demonized by the far right just as President Obama is now. Just goes to show you there isn’t much new under the sun and stars.

Yes Ron I have been keeping up from that long peaceful Hill view. Quite frankly though the music that Old Boney Cantor and the Yahoo Backup Band is playing is starting to bore the e-mortal heck out of me so I just haven’t had much to say this week.

Mrs. Hale my second grade teacher taught all us kids that if you didn’t have something nice to say about somebody it’s best to just not say anything at all.

Howdy Ho, IR!

I hope you got the home situated! I am doing so much better! And thanks for the thoughts, the card was hysterical!

You hit this one a bullseye! Take care, friend!

Frank:

Excellent analysis. I won't quarrel with a word you said. I'm a bit fascinated that some Republicans like Daniels. As Bush 41s Budget Director he was known as "the blade" for cutting programs and services. He is doing the same thing in Indiana and it is not well received. As I have posted many times, don't put much stock in Daniels. Pence has a better chance than Daniels.

In terms of Republican new blood. You are right-on. They do need a "rock-star", but I don't see any on the horizon. When Republicans pick a Presidential Candidate, they pick someone "old" with a long history. Nixon, Reagan, Dole, McCain come to mind.

I would enjoy a discussion of why conservatives pick the candidates they do. I think it's in their conservative DNA. (Only partially joking)

Frank "Grimey". I always enjoy reading your posts and this is a terrific one, a reasonable and honest assessment and I agree with your analysis.

It is hard for me to see how any republican candidate can position him/herself for a general election because of the primary mine-field of appeasing the Tea Party, Club for Growth and other groups which require rigid, ideological "purity" tests. Not sure how the GOP moves back and away from such rigidity.

Great analysis, Frank. Obviously I'm pulling for the "D" team but I always read every word you write carefully and take it seriously.

It's a long time to the next election and time for things to change more than once, but right now conditions favor the Democrats and many or most of the pitfalls lie on the Republican side.

Grimey!

You continually make it impossible for me to 'argue' with you! ;o)

Happy Thursday to you too!

T-Minus 24 and counting until Margarita-ville!

True, John B. I think the polls reflect a lot of things. The economy is slowly but steadily improving the last year, the unemployment number is slowly dropping, people are starting to feel better, and the Lame Duck session jolted people to something tangible because the media covered it not trivial tidbits. Exit polls in Nov clearly showed that voters wanted Congress to stop bickering and get to work, to compromise.

In the wake of the tragedy in Tucson, Obama's memorial speech reminded people why they voted for President Obama in the first place--calm, reassuring, intelligent, sensitive and caring. That Memorial Speech's final passages was President Obama's "Morning in America".

"I want to live up to her expectations. I want our democracy to be as good as Christina imagined it..... All of us--we should do everything we can to make sure this country lives up to our children's expectations...... If there are rain puddles in Heaven, Christina is jumping in them today. And here on Earth, we place our hands over our hearts, and we commit ourselves as Americans to forging a country that is forever worthy of her gentle, happy spirit." Morning in America.

John, nice spin but it could also be seen this way...the electorate (dems included) are both a fickle and forgetful bunch. Fickle because they will blindly follow who ever offers them the biggest _______— (insert your guilty pleasure) the quickest, at the lowest price...or free is even better. Forgetful because they don't remember how they got it or what it cost everyone else, including their children or grandchildren.

Those of you on FR that are high fiving and slapping each other on the butts over the presidential approval...remember that little monetary policy called quantitative easing? That is using the Fed to artificially prop up the markets by buying stocks, bonds, treasuries, etc. There is a lag time, usually nine months to a year, to be able to tell if this new infusion will work to benefit the economy. What it means in the short term, though, is devaluing the dollar. So we will see price increases in both import and domestic goods. Anyone noticed gas prices? That is usually the most responsive good.

I hope I am wrong because otherwise we are headed for a double dip (libs can call it a W shaped)recession and that certainly won't mean those high approval numbers.

You don't understand the stragedy..........this will keep the topic in the forefront.....the idea is to reform the health care bill.....even more and more dems are saying that they could compromise on some areas and that there are bad parts of the bill....just saving face before they have to actually vote on it.

recyclecongress - I have no problem with REFORMING parts of the Health Care Law. If the GOP and the Tea partyers decided to offer AMENDMENTS to the Health Care Law, you would not have much of an argument from me.

However, they decided to try and REPEAL the law. How STUPID is that?

The American people want Congress to work together to make AMERICAN life better in THIS country. Why is the GOP leadership wasing time and money on a 'fool's errand' trying to REPEAL this law NOW?

I have to agree with Pietro. Back on a Newsvine comment thread yesterday, I made a point of talking about how Republicans could easily win the American public over if they just bothered to research other countries. Sadly neither party did that during Round #1, which was arrogant and completely moronic. People will bring up other national health care systems like Canada, the UK, and some EU nations as a means of "showing" that national health care can never work. Yet no one has looked towards the nations where the system does work. Why do nations like Germany and Australia have functioning systems? (I know Germany can pull it off from their high tax structure.) What caused nations like the UK to operate in the red? How could the Canadian system be modified to make it more effective with less waiting times. Etc etc.

If either party actually made some kind of effort to analyse other national health care nations (excluding some of the South American ones who can only keep their many social programs afloat due to exporting valueable commodities like oil), then they could actually have intelligent and coherent discussions on the matter. A well informed party would maul to opposition in debate and would come off looking like heroic geniuses.

Yet having said all of that, I don't expect the Republicans to do any research. They seem to represent the interests and corportations and big business. The whole national health care concept who threat some of their political funds donors, so the Republicans want to remove national health care and prevent anything from replacing it. Frankly kind of sad, but the times are what they are.

Wiser with Age

Had me up until the last paragraph. Not bad up till then.

Then it just turned into more "Republicans only care about big business" nonsense.

Oh well...

Pietro and Wiser with Age;
I agree with you both. The HCR Law is far from perfect, but then again Social Security and Medicare were also far from perfect and evolved over time. The HCR Law needs the same and I would love for the two parties to sit down and keep what they agree is good for ALL Americans and work on those issues that are not. WIll this happen, I do not know the answer to that, but I do know that the GOP record of working with the democrats the last 2 years is about zero.
The republican/tea party is still the same party that favors Wall Street over Main Street, Big Business over Small Business and the richest 2% over the 98%. This has not and will not change any time soon, regardless of the grand rhetoric from the right that promises that it will.

recyclecongress

I think the Tuscon thing helped also but, I agree with you. He'll do better if he will sincerely attempted to compromise and stop with the "I won" shlt.

More bull from the party of No and He!! No. The party that vows to make President Obama a one term president regardless of what it takes and how it hurts the American People, the party of we will not compromise with the President (democrats). Nice spin but we do not buy it. It is the republican/tea party that will not compromise in good faith and your deeds prove it beyond any reason of doubt.

You really can't have an honest discussion about "hate-filled people" without mentioning the vitriolic teabaggers. PLEASE, PLEASE GOP: be stupid enough to nominate mindless quitter Sarah Palin, philandering Newt Gingrich, or probably the best one of all, lunatic John Bolton. By the way Chris, what was George Dumbya Jr.'s approval rating when that miserable incompetent failure left office (and the country in shambles) after 2008? The country will be many years recovering from 8 years of his train wreck of a presidency and 6 years of total Grand Obstructionist Party control.

And yet here the President is, STILL more popular than Reagan or Clinton at the same point in their presidencies.

Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that Gabrielle Giffords was shot by Democrats for political gain? That's a sick, sick concept and I can't believe you're saying that.

You think so, Chris? It wasn't the Left that said this;

August 17, 2009—Chris Broughton openly carries a handgun and AR-15 semiautomatic assault rifle to a health care rally in Phoenix, Arizona. Simultaneously, President Obama addresses a VFW Convention across the street. In a video recorded that day, Broughton states, "What do you think we did in the revolution, in the American Revolution? The British weren't stealing money from us for health care. They weren't taxing us the way they are now back then. And what did we do? We forcefully kicked them out of our country, and we will forcefully resist people imposing their will on us through the strength of the majority with a vote."

And you up the ante by simultaneously accusing Liberals of vile talk while saying "...a river of Democratic and left wing flesh floating away for good." Nice try at projection, but it's becoming very clear to the American public where most of the hateful and violent rhetoric originates.

I hope all of you read what Chris W has said. Here is an example of the right wing violent imagery I have been talking about. All of you who claim to be "Republicans" as if they are a separate party from the "teabaggers" need to read this, and get these people to understand that this is the kind of language that inflames people's passions, and not for the benefit of the country. Chris W: what world do you live in that a Democratic Congressperson got shot, some people died, including a little 9 year old girl, and it is the fault of the people who were there to see her, since they voted her in? It is the language YOU used, imitating Palin that creates this atmosphere. Shame on you, and I hope your post is collapsed. I have flagged it.

Chris W. you need help.

Don't worry. Help is on the way. 2012

Wow since we are playing the martyr card...What was Bush's rating before 9/11(Sorry folks, but this nutcase needs a reality check)? After? How many times did he and fellow Republicans reference 9/11 to further their agenda? Even the building of a mosque in NYC, how many times had 9/11 been referenced! Not one Democrat have I heard use OKC bombing, 9/11, Arizona shooting, or Fort Hood shootings to further their agendas, but I can't count how many times I've heard it from Republicans. So Republicans won a few elections...those same ones voted in are doing worse than who they voted out! Help is on the way in 2012...YOU called it!

I'm pretty sure this nonsense "victim" stance from the right is precisely why Obama's and the Democrats in general, numbers are up. The American people did not vote in the GOP to get more of the same EVERYONE who doesn't agree with ME is a traitor and UnAmerican bilge. ENOUGH!

Well said, Houston. The Nazi comparison immediately throws the debate into a negative place, but the "big lie" has been constant on the Conservative side.

Democrats should NEVER say anything about Nazis. The media only allows the Republicans to get away with that.

Good point, Houston.

Western PA -

Hello from Eastern PA. I don't recall any President William Buchannan. There was a President James Buchanan, though, who coincidentally enough was the only President to come from anywhere in PA. Pretty much in the middle. We took a field trip to his house in the fourth grade. You might want to check it out sometime.

hahahahahaha ...

And they continue to deny daily the debt they left for children and grandchildren. Instead they spin that it was all the democrats doing.