So how many Dem. senators would it take?

So 1 more Bill goes off to die a Death of Futility!

Let's play politics:

Before the Senate adjourned(due back next week), Democrats wanted to vote on the Filibuster Buster.What will they do Now? I know Harry Reid is the Decider that brings Bills to the Floor of the Senate. Would it still take 60 votes or just 51 to Repeal HCR in the senate, should harry call thier Bluff?

Interesting stuff!

The Vetriliquist show is about to begin!

Pop that PopCorn, Feisty, it's gonna get Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood!

Tunde the boat hasn't left the dock yet. But at least we will know who to vote out in 2012. I say keep sending it up to the senate and so called president until it passes and is repealed. If it isn't repealed soon vote out the numb scullsthat voted against repealing the bill in 2012. Make the boneheads keep their names out in front of the people so we can easily remember them and vote them out.

It would take a total of 67 Senators to vote for repeal in order to over ride the Presidents Veto.

My favorite description of HCR was given by an NPR announcer (can't remember who) who said it was like building a brand new second floor on top of a crumbling shack. I just don't think beefing up a corrupt system is the way to go. But hey, that's just one looney lefty's opinion.

Fiesty...nice way to be "civil." You seemed to have mastered the art of talking out of both sides of your mouth by speaking about civility then in the same breath spewing venom.

The political pandering you speak of now puts those on record in the new Congress of who stands where. I think thats important. Lets not forget if the Republicans do not get this repealed they will use the power of the purse and defund this sucker effectively rendering most of it useless.

Progressivism has never made it very far in this country and never will.

AZChzhd--That's a bit over the top with your comments. It won't go the way you want--just face it. The right was gloating when the seats were picked up in the house. It was merely symbolic to even bother to have the vote. It's a money saving piece of legislation. It's imperfect--but what legislation is perfect?

All you progressives can just keep drinking the coolaid. When your agenda makes the dollar bill worth

5 cents ,do not come crying to the big bad mean conservatives that do not want to spend what we do not

have. We will soon be a very poor third world country. Great job folks!!

sandtrich...I do not think I am going overboard at all. I would not want to take chances and gamble on a bill that impacts 1/6th of the entire economy. Thats playing with fire my friend. Money saving my butt. If you eliminate all the accounting tricks and gimmicks used by the Democrats and the CBO to furnish those numbers, you wll see the idea of the HCR reducing the deficit is a fairytale and wishful thinking.

I would rather the GOP do the repeal and replace and start small. There are issues both sides agree on and start there. Pre-existing conditions, coverage for kids while in college, and tort reform are 3 areas we could begin with. Then add your amendments as you go on in time. Seriously, this is the absolutely worst time to be passing behemoth spending bills during a harsh recession and when we are broke. The Democrats spent the entire 2009 year and part of 2010 concentrating on this instead of the economy. Priorities were completely out of whack. The way this bill was passed was a sham and the fact the nobody bothered to read it before it was passed (see Pelosi) was even worse.

All you progressives can just keep drinking the coolaid

I'll take kool-aid (notice the proper spelling is with a 'K') over the hate-or-aide your side chugs on a daily basis anytime!

Thank you very much! ;o)

No surprise here, all three are in strong conservative states and they voted no the first time.

Good evening Fiesty How you're doing this evening GF?

I'll take kool-aid (notice the proper spelling is with a 'K') over the hate-or-aide your side chugs on a daily basis anytime

Are you kidding? They're a bunch of liars. They believe nothing they see if it is from the left. That's why people say they live in a parallel universe.

It's been a bad day for tea baggers; looks like a bad evening too.

Beverly and Fiesty...enjoy that 66% increase in income taxes your liberal state imposed to put a dent in that gaping budget hole. The notion of cutting spending is a foreign one there. Once the jobs exodus into the neighboring states begins, maybe you guys will wake up and smell the "kool-aid" with k, K?

They believe nothing they see if it is from the left.

I must respectfully disagree. Since Single-Payer wasn't even discussed, and the great compromise to Single-Payer known as the Public Option was barely given lip service, I don't believe it's fair to say that HCR is from the left. Yes, I know, I'm just a l'il old trouble-maker.

AZ--66% increase sounds better to you than 2% increase--that's what it is. Please enlighten me as to what states are without budget challenges.

It's been a bad day for tea baggers; looks like a bad evening too.

Hiya GF!

The BEST news is, there are many many more to come! lmao!

Americans are no longer picking up what the tea baggers are laying down!

RIP - Baggee's!

CHEERS Bev!

Wakeup2840,

Please do not make unqualified statements that say "WE WANT" or "WE NEED". You do not, nor will you ever speak for me. I feel personnaly violated every time I hear someone from the Tea Party say "WE", as the totality of the American public. In effect, the Tea Party is/was a device cleverly rendered by Republican leadership and Fox news, heavily funded by the Koch brothers. During the 2010 election, it constantly reminded of "Meet John Doe". Meet John Doe" was a film from 1941, which illustrated the power of media and money to generate and manipulate politics. Watch the movie and then compare local Tea Parties and "John Doe Clubs". Then remember who was controlling John Doe's speech.

Thank spend and tax. Maryland raised the millionaire tax expecting this to increase revenue. Guess what, lost revenue. Illinois just raised taxes, let's see what the result is. Utah passed a bill that all new public sector hires now have a 401k with a 10% match by state, or they can continue on the defined benefit plan but also capped at 10%. Feisty and Bev, have you looked at a congressional map blue and red. Probably not, would not fit your leanings.

sandtrich...North Dakota for one. Yes I realize the states are in a bind, but most states choose to CUT SPENDING instead of raise taxes. Why dont the liberals ever consider cutting the spending?? You can choose to play with wording but the fact is Illinois choose to look the other way regarding its spending and simply raise the revenue. I am sure that will backfire eventually.

We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle - Winston Churchill

Also, as of today THE MAJORITY of states in the union are suing to escape Obamacare, with 2 more making their own cases. What will it take before the spineless Dem sheep stand up to the personal agenda of a single man for the good of the people? 40 state lawsuits?

"A federal judge in Florida on Wednesday allowed Ohio, Kansas, Wyoming, Wisconsin, Maine and Iowa to join a lawsuit filed there last year, bringing the total number of states in that case to 26. Virginia is pursuing a separate lawsuit, and Oklahoma says it will bring suit as well."

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/01/19/health.care/index.html?hpt=T1

Bill Marvell

JoAnnaSmith1,

So you seem to think that the 2010 election totally negates the 2008 election? Reality is that half the exchange in House seats occurred in Districts tired of supporting "Blue Dog" Democrats. The Dems either stayed home or decided to vote for the more honest (from political philosphy) candidate. As for 2012, that blackboard is still blank. Be careful about counting your victories before the contest has begun.

The black board is blank? Oh Gawd, the paramrdics must have carried Glenn Beck off the set. You're next Lady JoAnna.

Beck thought the chalk was cocaine. What's your story Lady Jo?

Well, actually I'm a little surprised it wasn't more. With a dozen Blue Dogs still around, I'd have thought more would succumb to their Red State pressures. Maybe they've found some moral will power and maybe they have a better grasp of the independents in their States than we might think. I suspect it may be a combination of the two. Most of the Blue Dogs are moderates often leaning more right than left and it is a lot independents who put them in office. I really don't expect that too many of the right base have changed their minds yet, but I do believe independents are beginning to see some real good in the HCR. If most of the Blue Dogs are in touch with that, it would explain their votes. Because their votes wouldn't change the outcome, you'd think they'd be more apt to make a symbolic vote. (like the 3 that voted in favor of repeal) So ask yourself what were they trying to say by voting against repeal? It's not typical of a Blue Dogs' vote. I believe it's a sign that the tide is turning at least amongst those in the middle.

Azchd--ND is a state of 633K population--48th in population. The state takes back more than twice what they send to Washington. North Dakota ($2.03)/$1. Is that fiscally responsible? The population in the upper Midwest is shrinking in population. I moved to Hawaii from SD and are very familiar with her politics as well as ND.

Reason-11551

Democrats: the party of No.

Job1 said: It would take a total of 67 Senators to vote for repeal in order to over ride the Presidents Veto.

Which is yet one more reason why his days are numbered - 2012 the political tsunami continues.

Did you get the news today. let me guess you saw there was no vote in the Senate. but, you being a "typical" rightie did believe it.

Then on Christmas via executive order Obama slipped back in what they want to call "life" panels: where government officials will decide certain older people are not worth the money on treatment and they should do the liberals a financial favor and die without a medical fight

Gov mummy face (Jan Brewer) has Arizona death panels where people die and--she wants more death panel. She even includes little children. She uses her petrified fingers recovered from her desert tomb in her office to sign executive order in her office.

Well, the party of construction passed the bill in the house. We'll have to see if the party of destruction will block it in the senate.

Not sure why the author made the dumb comment about it being a "symbolic" vote. I guess that's their way of putting down anything constructive. The good thing is that if the senate dems vote against it, they'll still have to face the fact that they now have to deal with people who are in favor of rebuilding this country and setting it on the right path. Not everyone wants to such their thumbs and wait for big brother to provide for them.

You righties need to learn that Obama, Nancy, and Harry only made these backroom deals to bring us all hope for healthcare and a government that will take care of us all equally.,Why?..Because they love us and want us to love them.

William1a - the original Social Security was fine tuned probably six times - this is the first step - no I didn't like the original bill but I felt it opened the door - and the door needed to be opened. Now that the silly people have fulfilled their promise tell them to get to work and offer real alternatives - the Insurance Industry is powerful and need to be closed down - we need a government run Medicare system - by the way it costs Medicare 3% note 3% to run this system. Start looking at the real numbers and not wehat you are being spoon fed by people who get their money to run for office.

Ha ha ha ha ha that was a good one! They love money and power, screw the rest of us.

sandtrich...you asked me to name a state that isnt in dire straits and I did. That is beside the point. I dont care about the population or any of that other nonsense. You didnt give me certain criteria that must be met in your question. I was talking about tax increase vs. spending cuts. You are the one that wants to play the numbers game. I was interested more in the ideological differences in problem solving, numbers be damned.

Hawaii? Nice move. Been there a few times. My wife loves it there but I feel after a certain amount of time I would get island fever or something.

I agree with you about the mass migration out of themidwest. I did the same. I am from Milwaukee and now live in Phoenix. So I am also very familiar with the liberal politics of Milwaukee and Madison and I disagreed with all of it.

Beverly in Chitown--If I ever got into a "calling it the way you see it" argument--I would sure want you on my side.

Money is funded by the house. Mr. Ed, what a joke you are. As I said later, Comcast has bought NBC, they want ratings, which you do not have. Air America ring a bell

Bev, Feisty, where are you. Cannot have a talk with someone who you think is so beneath you. Cowards

sandtrich

"AZ--66% increase sounds better to you than 2% increase--that's what it is. Please enlighten me as to what states are without budget challenges."

Sandich, it is obvious now that you were depived of basic math skills in grade school. Your state income tax was 3% and was raised to 5%. 5/3 = 1.667 aka a 66.7% increase. Where you were paying $1.00, now you are paying $1.667. Keep pretending it is just 2% so when they start charging you 7% you will only think it is just another 2%.

It is no wonder why you keep voting for the left. You obviously need someone else to think for you.

Bob, there is no helping these people. Sort of like Bev and Feisty, when they run into someone that actually knows the facts, they disappear. Could have had a V-8

Bob Randall, I don't know what's actually more astonishing... the fact that you don't know what Sandtrich was talking about, or the fact that you start to break down simple math that a 3rd grader would know... that's quite pathetic. I'm not even going to start explaining what Sandtrich was saying... I'll summarize it this way... all he said was "perception matters"... and if you don't get that... all I can say is WOW and please stop blogging... u r doing too much damage to your credibility.

Goligh, and you support Randall's assertion.... haha.. you guys are too funny. I try not to denigrate anyone on these boards, I just couldn't help myself on this one. Good luck guys.

Tunde...I think you also fail to see what Bob Randall was saying. HIS perception was Sandtrich was wrong, and he is...its not a 2% increase, its a 66% increase. They are taking 2 more percent of your pay, which is a 66% increase in total amount. I do not think perception matters at all anyways. No matter how you look at it, their taxes are nearly doubling. Sandtrich says 66% sounded better to me. Suffice to say, there is no "better" way to say your taxes will be nearly doubling. If liberals want to make it look better by saying something like a 2% increase, then have at it. It is a 66% increase, as Bob clearly says. There is no other way of looking at it.

And why can't it be said both ways at the same time for clarity? "Your taxes are going up 2% points, a 66% increase." Four additional words is too much to ask?

AZChzhd, you said I failed to see what Bob Randall was saying.... and you then explained in a lengthy form exactly what I summarized..."Perception Matters" - again, you can say something one way to suite ur agenda and someone else says it a different way to suit their agenda. It's all matter of game to try to win an argument... that was Sandtrich's point... not the fuzzy math.

I'm not on either side of the argument because I quite frankly could care less.... don't live in Il and enjoy "zero" state income taxes in TX. Paul-977599.... thanks for chiming in, lol.

Piece of cake, eh, Paul? While people focus on the wording, I focus on the fact that the taxes are nearly doubling. Thats enough for me. Anyone can play with words to make it suit their agenda, which is what the Tweedle Party has been good at...Tweedle Dum on the left and Tweedle Dee on the right.

Tunde...isnt this getting exhausting? lol You said perception matters, I said it does not. Either way you look at it, the taxes are going up nearly double. I am with you, too, about the matter. Being in Arizona, I am far removed from their issues. But since I am originally from Wisconsin, I am never surprised with Illinois' way of doing things.

What I see is a bunch of waste of tax payers MONEY, I seem to understand that this repeal is dead already,why are they wasting so much when (we BIPARTISUM) could be doing so much more in a positive, meaningful way, like coming up with a plan to use the food that being thrown away at all these resturants,Casinos Cruise liners, there is NO reason for people to STARVE anywhere in this world we area wastful country,Please Stop wasting taxpayers MONEY, with an unwinable issue!!, an I see that Buoner is freezing all federal raises, -(LEAD by Example) what about his Raises!!!! is he freezing his, we have so many Issues that needs to be address, How much is this REPEAL costing U.S. Citizens an for how long will it COST us!!

Tunde Akins

"Bob Randall, I don't know what's actually more astonishing... the fact that you don't know what Sandtrich was talking about, or the fact that you start to break down simple math that a 3rd grader would know... that's quite pathetic. I'm not even going to start explaining what Sandtrich was saying... I'll summarize it this way... all he said was "perception matters"... and if you don't get that... all I can say is WOW and please stop blogging... u r doing too much damage to your credibility."

What is astonishing is that you and sandich don't undertand the fact that a 2% increase in the tax rate is meaningless when you don't consider what the original tax rate was in the first place. Fortunately, my credibility is intact. Since you have presented nothing but an assumption that you can read sandich's mind by the lacking statement he made, your credibility is in serious doubt.

I make my living in engineering where math plays a key roll. How do you make your living? Obviously not with math, as the only thing you seem to know about it is that it is fuzzy to you.

Bob Randall, well what do u know?... we have something in common... I have a BS and MS in Engineering (did very well in school and at work - 10yrs)... and by the way, I just went back to school for Medicine. So I must not suck at math or any other kind of science for that matter... if you notice, I wasn't questioning your math... just that you are interpreting it to suit your motives... my point was that Sandtrich understood the math, but merely pointed out the 2% to make it sound better from his perspective. Anyways buddy.... good luck in your endeavors...

AZChzhd.... glad we can find some quasi common ground. :)

Name names and the Libs will eat their own.................you can almost relate this tread to the Nazi comment tread. FR name names and their followers will punish them for voting against their wishes even though their not in their district.

Now the Senate Democrats have a choice. Either go along with Obama's minion Harry Reid, or listen to the voters back in their states that want ObamaCare eliminated. Last time around many of the Democrats sided with Reid, and now there aren't that many Democrats. Funny how that works out, no?

JoAnnaSmith1

Either go along with Obama's minion Harry Reid, or listen to the voters back in their states that want ObamaCare eliminated.

Oh, So that's way House Majority Leader John Boenher has been MIA in the leadership? Or was it the booze?

Last time around many of the Democrats sided with Reid, and now there aren't that many Democrats. Funny how that works out, no?

Just wait untill you feel the wrath of right, left, independents and tea baggers next time.

Better check the polls; Dolly? Not Fox-mussen either; people are sick of you republican leaders lies and overtures toward hate and bigotry. Just look at how many on the right who are getting more and more ashamed of the repups actions. Believe it.

Less Americans favor repeal than oppose it. Why do you hate the American people, JoAnnaSmith?

As I read my history, Republicans and most of America were against Medicare, Social Security, desegregation of the military, desegregation of schools, voting for blacks, fair housing. If you look at the legislative history, the Republican party has consistently been on the wrong side of many of the most important issues facing our nation since the end of World War II.

On the other hand, they have been strong supporters of the War in Vietnam; a modern day witch hunt headed by Joseph McCarthy; the break-in of a Washington D.C. hotel and attempt to destroy in the Democratic party. Each time, these so called leaders were just doing what they claimed their constituants wanted.

While this was the same party that began with Abraham Lincoln and the determination to fight against what was then the still popular notion of slavery. When is the Republican party going to wake up and reclaim the mantle of being the "Grand Ole Party" ? Why are they allowing themselves to be railroaded by the Glen Becks, Rush Limbaughs and Sarah Palins. Where are their modern day Lincolns, Eisenhowers, (yes, even) Reagan's ?

Less than half the country wants this bill repealed. Keep spinning, Joanna.

Funny how that works out, no?

actually check the polls, they are sick of all politicians.

Monkeyman, thats because she's unable to find Summers Eve!

Rotten to the Core that one!

Now look at the poll about revising it. Anyone can spin the polls, before the elections the very people siting polls said polls didn't matter, but now they do. Not everything in the bill is bad, but it needs to be changed.

Now one of Americas largest creditors, President Hu, can finally see first hand that at least one part of our government is serious about cutting our spending.

The only spending President Hu is interested in involves you going to WALMART and buying something that says "Made In China".

(Then, of course, you get to sit back and wonder where the jobs are.)

As I read my history, Republicans and most of America were against Medicare, Social Security, desegregation of the military, desegregation of schools, voting for blacks, fair housing. If you look at the legislative history, the Republican party has consistently been on the wrong side of many of the most important issues facing our nation since the end of World War II.On the other hand, they have been strong supporters of the War in Vietnam; a modern day witch hunt headed by Joseph McCarthy; the break-in of a Washington D.C. hotel and attempt to destroy in the Democratic party. Each time, these so called leaders were just doing what they claimed their constituants wanted.

What history book is that? Do you realize the Vietnam war started under a Dem president and the dems were against desegregation of schools, voting for blacks.. While Medicare and SS are already in the red so doesnt that prove that the repubs were right? The more liberal comments that I read, that are just plain stupid and factless the more I wonder if McCarthy was right all along, but what do I know? Just go back to your social political studies..

Johanna nothing about how our congress has acted in the last couple of years is impressive to anyone but the most simple of minded. You think we look cleaver to the world in our present state of political game we play when there is so much real work that needs to be addressed. The saddestperson in the world is one who doesnt have the sense to be embarrassed when they are not on parr.

The conservative party was the party that gave us Medicare -D by going in a room, no Democrats, and forcing the very bad bill down our throats. When the going got bad there was no coverage - and that is what they want to do to the Health Care Reform bill - gut it. They could not pay for Med-D either, but it went through anyway.

There are some thing about the health care bill that need revising, granted. But Americans need health care that doesn't bankrupt them.

JoAnnaSmith,

Please. Please do your homework. Yet another poll has shown that only ~18% (the fools, uneducated, and misinformed among the electorate IMO) want full repeal.

(replace the commas with periods)

It is incorrect to say that America wants this legislation repealed. If anything, evidence points to more people wanting the bill strengthened or reworked. If you go issue by issue, people don't want to lose protection from being dropped for pre-existing conditions, don't want to lose reductions in costs for small businesses to provide health care to workers, don't want to kick kids off of their parents' insurance, and don't want rescissions, don't want to lose early-retiree care, etc.

If you're one of those people who is hell-bent on repeal, please ask yourself these: What specifically do I want repealed. Why. Who will that affect? What will be done instead?

Once you've done that, please get back to us and there can be some sort of discussion. Perhaps there is a lot that we could improve with the bill short of completely trashing it. I think that is much more constructive than fighting a futile battle to repeal something that is already doing more good than harm.

Regards

What history book is that? Do you realize the Vietnam war started under a Dem president and the dems were against desegregation of schools, voting for blacks..

I remember that history book...I believe the next chapter said something about all of those Democrats following Strom Thurmond and becoming Republicans.

Bev,

Just look at how many on the right who are getting more and more ashamed of the repups actions. Believe it.

How many more? Who, where did you get is information?

-Sam, nice try at rewriting history, but our involvement in Vietnam started under Eisenhower, and last I checked he was a Republican. Good job. Yeah, sure, McCarthy was right...

You are on a ROLL Rick! Keep em coming! lmfao!

To be honest, I believe vinegar is more her 'thingy'! ;o)))

You attract more flies with honey dontcha know!

What the polls support your position? Kinda like Dentine: "4 out of five dentists recommend Dentine for their patients who chew gum."

Citing to a poll proves what? We took a poll on Nov. 2. The house took a poll today. Everything else is kida irrelevant.

Aww how cute Fiesty supporting Rick's Summer's Eve comment. Classy 1 and Classy 2. Because when your meme about teabaggers and nutjobs fail, go straight to toilet humor.

I'm sure the hosts of this board are sooooo very proud.

The guy above has the name duh101. By looking at his blind uninformed comments i can tell why his name is duhh101. He went to the Democrat Socialist University where they don't teach U.S. History. This guy is so misled that one can hardly figure out where to start so I won't. Nothing anyone could say could undue the brainwashing he has undergone. I can only hope that each of you would read the comments and check them against history to find his mistakes. The one that bothered me the most are the civil rights comments. Anyone that studies history knows that southern Democrats were at the fore front of the fight against civil rights. The likes of Democrat Senator Bird the former Klu Klux klan leader were the power in southern politics who blockaded doorways to keep blacks out. Lincoln a Republican led the battle against slavery. This guy has never listned to any of the people he named in his post because I have and have never heard anything racist come out of their mouths. Limbaugh"s call screen-er is a black man and Rush has many black friends. The problem is that many of the blacks who associate with these named people are Republicans which in the minds of Democrat Socialists makes their skin turn white. Talk about racists. God forbid that blacks could think for themselves and make up their own minds about the political views in their life. I can understand why people on welfare would support the Democrat party of handouts because if the Democrats were voted out these people may actually have to go to work to make a living. Handouts make people lazy they make people subservient and they make people slaves to who is handing out the help. I believe blacks are equal in every way. I also believe that they like whites yellows blues or any other color of people are apt to accept a free living if it is offered to them but I tell you that the providers are about to be milked dry. Something like forty percent of the people in the United States pay no income tax at all and i am not talking about rich people. They are living on the backs of taxpayers. What happens when the rest of the taxpayers decide to jump onto the free living bus? I'll tell you that this nation will starve to death and be a nation of chaos and anarchy. Wake up DUH!

But when the polls lean to the right. The righties tout them. Strange fruit on the vine.

I'm really tired of banging my head against the wall trying to rationalize with people who know the truth but refuse to acknowledge it .

They don't even want to accept that Barack Hussein Obama is President.

And you are apparently tired of messing with proper English, as usual.

Spanky-

And you are apparently tired of messing with proper English, as usual.

You are incorrigible. It's not my fault you are a hopeless rightie.

To you proper English is whacko right wing talking points. I speak correct, proper, English which does not include rightwing lies; get it?

Come on Bev - let's get a drink and let Spanks play with himself! ;o)

Polyester shirt unbuttoned to the waist and lifts in his shoes - and then there is the Just for Grey for men!

Poor little guy - is a legend in his own mind!

JoAnnaSmith1,

So you seem to think that the 2010 election totally negates the 2008 election? Reality is that half the exchange in House seats occurred in Districts tired of supporting "Blue Dog" Democrats. The Dems either stayed home or decided to vote for the more honest (from political philosphy) candidate. As for 2012, that blackboard is still blank. Be careful about counting your victories before the contest has begun.

Feisty, how do you like your new taxes, maybe you don't pay any?

Feisty, how do you like your new taxes, maybe you don't pay any?

Catch me on the IL tax increase thread and I might tell ya!

In the meantime, this thread is ALL about which Democrats voted for the repeal of HCR!

Do try to keep up will ya? ;o)

Spin & Twist is SO yesterday!

goliph

Feisty, how do you like your new taxes, maybe you don't pay any?

Hey Red

Here's another looking for his lift.

FYI: lillte goliph

Fraudulent news (read FOX NEWS if you're not too busy) gave it to you the wrong way. Illinois has lowest taxes in the nation.

HCR will increase debt by 700 billion, and that is just a start. Now, if you would like a reasonable debate, I'm ready. Have never called anyone a name, let's just start there.

http: //www.langerresearch.com /uploads /1120a3%20Health%20Care%20Reform.pdf

Bev, there are 9 states that have no income taxes, so, try again

Waiting

goliph

Waiting

Please continue to hold onto your member and keep on waiting!

Doing what YOU do best!

Both crude and stupid. Have forgotten more than you know. So much for a discussion, can only hurl weak insults. Have to consider the source, since neither of you can even come close to a real discussion. You would be lost in your knowledge, or lack thereof. Sorry, do not need spell check

Aw Spanky, whatup. Just another thread you were giving the TeaParty Chain man the benefit of the doubt with his use of words.

Whaaaaaaaaazzup Buchwheat?

Maybe you should give your 9 employee's a raise, since you spend all your Day on 1st Read, supposedly makeing you $$$. Better yet, you can Chase more 1st Read poster's around the Vine yelling 'hey i'ma responsible business, hear me RoooooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaR !

BTW, are 3 of your Employee's named JoannaSmith1- MixedBag & Bob-90210 ?

next attempt at an insult, please. Let's see, lost Obama's seat and Teddy's seat. North Dakota next and only three more out of 22 up for reelection. Good luck!! Webb in Va., would vote for him if I lived there, Manchin, yes also

Missouri in doubt, also. Feisty Bev, got mighty quiet.

Just a guess, you both worked for ACORN

It's funny goliph, these mindless doughbama minions are hilarious, they are getting lower and lower intellect while they are foaming at the mouth because they are running out of excuses for their messiah, must be madcow disease (as in Rachel). Just laugh at them, they are pathetic. pop that popcorn and watch them implode!

Come on girls, you can do it. This is what you are good at, except maybe afraid

Beverly in Chicago

FYI: lillte goliph

Fraudulent news (read FOX NEWS if you're not too busy) gave it to you the wrong way. Illinois has lowest taxes in the nation.

Do you just make stuff up as you go along? Illinois has the 6th highest combined tax rate in the US.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/26269.html

Beverly:

Evidently your proper English speaking butt didn't get the memo. Your new Governor to whom won with 47%, 30,0000 only played you all like a fool. Your frikken taxes are going up 66% as opposed to what they promised 37%....lol.....and on top of that they did it in the last 3 hrs of the lame duck.

Yes everyone in the nation knows about your crooked azz Democrap controlled state. They pulled that shyt when they saw they would maintain the legislature.

So what is it Kaysie, a "Christian" nation that FR and the Libs are freaking out about on Tread about the Alabama Governor or do you want us to be "Christian" when it benefits another agenda?

How does this effect the elderly if they already have Medicare/Caid?

Huh? I'm Jewsih.

Reality Check,

You don't count..............................

If we don't repeal this bill the country will go bankrupt and nobody will have insurance of any kind.

Wake, have you been smoking that funny stuff again? Get real.

It really doesn't matter because the country was going that direction in the 80's. This was inevitable. When the crooks are holding the money bag, you get what you paid for.

I'll tell you why. Because when this bill is in full force the cost will bankrupt the United States. They are trying to stop the mandated rationing of health care which would terminate older retired people. I am retired and can easily see what is happening. When health care is offered freely to illegal immigrants and everyone it will be impossible to fund it and Social Security. Rationing will have to come. Both are going bankrupt right now and health care hasn't even started yet. Just the taxes for health care have started. You Kaysie are getting older whether you like it or not It's you that will likely get the rationing and loss of health care. You better wake up.

Kaysie,

I understand your point. The Tea Party and "conservative" Republicans love to stand before the Cross, draped in the American flag, and quote scripture, as if it were written by our "Founding Fathers".

In fact, our true founding fathers were heretics, criminals and religious extremists. Conservatives today decry that they must erect their Christmas Nativities on private property, like their churchyards, instead of courthouse grounds or public parks. Yet, Massachusetts Puritans outlawed any public or private celebration of Christmas, including Nativities. Jefferson was more a deist than anything else. Washington was a Anglican. Any Baptists among the founders would have been from Georgia. Most were probably Methodist, Lutheran or Quaker. But they all shared one opinion, no tie between Church and State. But today, too many politicians believe their religion is important to me, and more frighteningly, that their religion should be imposed on me.

No, Obamacare takes 500 billion from medicare and throws most of the supoosedly no cost to feds to states with medicaid for the 30 million new people, but the feds will make it up, but not part of the CBO analysis.

goliph

No, Obamacare takes 500 billion from medicare and throws most of the supoosedly no cost to feds to states with medicaid for the 30 million new people, but the feds will make it up, but not part of the CBO analysis.

Ha ha still looking for that lift goliph?

For Republicans, this is the same fight as keeping the Bush tax cuts: more money for the wealthy at the expense of the 98%ers—the rest of us.

I know you righties don't believe anything even if it bites you in your @^#es.

CBO lies it's BAD; don't believe. Believe Republican voodoo numbers instead.

Bev, we are getting closer to a discussion. Had the pleasure of growing up in Chicago suburbs. Alright, hear what you are saying about tax cuts, but how about the 50% who pay nothing. One of JFK's greatest lines was "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." Great statement, and wish both sides of sprectrum would live up to it. That's how we get more civility, even if you still want to try to belittle me.

goliph

Bev, we are getting closer to a discussion. Had the pleasure of growing up in Chicago suburbs. Alright, hear what you are saying about tax cuts, but how about the 50% who pay nothing. One of JFK's greatest lines was "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." Great statement, and wish both sides of sprectrum would live up to it. That's how we get more civility, even if you still want to try to belittle me.

What ever you are man/woman/eunuch you are a pitfall little person.

They may not may federal taxes but they pay others like those on good and services.

Everybody does something to contribute to society in one why or another if it's a bum.

You still at a loss, goods and services? And just just would that be?

Bev, where is your cohert. Do you have anything of merit to add other than your sorry attempt at insult.

Last I heard, 233 companies have requested and been granted opt out of Obamacare. In addition SEIU has as well. And if you did not know SEIU is a gov't union. They do not want it. Facts only, no name calling

Also, by the way, 26 states now have joined Fla. in trying to call Obamacare unconstitutional. That is a majority of states. Watch Obama keep moving toward the center. This country is center-right no matter how you would like it. Did you see on the news how many medical procedures in Great Britain are now elective. Probably not

GE has now sold NBC to Comcast. How long will Comcast put up with no ratings for MSNBC. Sounds like Air America

Because if they think differently than you, they must be stoooopid, right? And going for the extra bonus points you chose not to limit your comments to the congress-critters, but had to denigrate two entire states. Well done, you really should be proud!

Ok Melody Ann rock us with your SAT or MCAT score.

Remember, Spanky, a liberal doesn't mind if you have an opinion as long as it is the same as theirs..

Eat your own!!! Damn those two states that you don't live in...........Maybe they listened to their constituents, but that would be crazy wouldn't it?

Melody Ann, is there anything you'd like to say to the good folks of ARK. and OK?

Now why is it I get the sense we won't be hearing from dear Melody again?

They probably couldn't read it and want it in phonics

The proper way to say that would be "and want it phonetically."

So, Melody Ann, what qualifies you to make an intelectual judgement on the people of Oklahoma and Arkansas. Is it possible that those representatives are really listening to their constituents?

The University of Oklahoma enrolls the largest number of Merit Scholars of ANY university in the U.S. Check your facts. Your gross generalization, not to mention falsehood, says a great deal about your own academic shortcomings, but I wouldn't stereotype your entire state. I do agree, however, that the Oklahoma congressional lineup is pretty a pretty sad lot.

This is the kind of respectful speech that always comes from Democrats... when they are pointing their finger at Republicans.

Melody Ann, this particular NC Dem voted against the original bill to begin with, so it is no surprise to me that he voted in favor of the repeal.

I think we shamed old Melody sufficiently that she is gone. Let's just hope she stays away.

And funny how you are unable to feel that same shame yourself for the nonsense you have posted today, Spanky. Is this really what you consider intellectual discourse? Seems like it is just an excuse to insult people.

Most of the nation's congrsessional map is red. Only a few pockets of blue. The true cost of this bill is 700 billion, and medicare recipients are going to have a much harder time finding a doctor. Oh sorry, doctor fix was going to come later, but not scored by CBO.

The libs are so envious of Europe they can't stand it, they don't have a clue. I know people in England, Ireland, and Austria, and their "free" healthcare is terrible and expensive. Gee, let's be like them! Why do you think the insurance companies were for it?! Because they were the ones that benefitted! Notice how they are raising their rates? You would have to be an idiot to think this was any more than an opportunity for Obama to create a "legacy".

Disheartening only to you Melody dear. The rest of us think the North Carolina Dem. finally can see the light.

Who's going to pay for that heath care (Obamacare)? I know I'll be saving money by not paying into health care. How many people don't have health care again?

Now why would you get healthcare now? Pay the tax and wait until you need the care. Obamacare is great in that regard.

Whos going to pay for them afterwards? I dont think anyone is arguing that we dont need reform, I think the point is that what we have sucks and we need to go back a get something that will actually reign in the actual costs of health care and health insurance. I think that is the point your missing.

I’m curious Brutus, what is it about this bill that sucks so much that it needs to be repealed?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you're not a big fan of the mandate. That's understandable, albeit short sighted, but understandable. Aside from that, what else do you take issue with?

Can they make you buy Broccoli KameronK? If not why not?

If you buy the insurance you get a tax credit, if you don't buy the insurance you do not get the tax credit. No one is being FORCED to buy anything. You have an economic choice to make for which you and the country will likely benefit. Deal with it.

And if you have no income what is the value of a tax credit?

@spanky...way to miss the point. The question was simply, OTHER than the mandate, what is about this bill that you hate so much? Can you answer that question?

But, to answer your question, NO. Why? Because the mandate to buy broccoli isn't in the health care bill.

That is a false statement, starting 2014 if you don't buy into Obama care, the IRS will withhold a portion of you tax return. This is the reason why they need IRS agents. Now why would you need IRS agents if you don't have to pay?

"If you buy the insurance you get a tax credit, if you don't buy the insurance you do not get the tax credit. No one is being FORCED to buy anything. You have an economic choice to make for which you and the country will likely benefit. Deal with it."

Witholding a portion of your tax refund is not forcing you to buy anything.

Actually, most of the world views the States as arrogant idiots. To hear the rant of 'We're number 1' when in truth we fail in education, economics, health, etc., etc. When you hear someone say we teach our kids self esteem - BS. We teach them arrogance, laziness and that you get rewarded for bad behaviour.

tgriff,

Post the link. Why do World Leaders come to the United States for Health Care?

And yet they all still seem to want to come here to live. That's odd.

So MEEDE1 hows that great healthcare system doing over in England? What's that it's on the verge of collapse? How about Cuba or Canada? What's that, it sucks cause you have to wait years for treatment. Huh?

If it is so bad; why do everyone in the world come here for treatment? YOU post the link as to where most of the world think we are uncivilized, and not a link to a MSNBC show or MediaMatters.

Spanky, you spew Rethug ad nauseam lies in that my sister lives in Canada. She has cancer and has had 3 surgeries in the past 18 months - all of which were scheduled and carried out within a week of the doctor advising she required surgery. And in fact, I broke my arm when visiting her last year. It was necessary to have it operated on which happened within 2 hours of presenting in the hospital and the costs were ridiculously low. So low in fact, I had sufficient cash on me.

Yea, the Canadians and British are breaking down the borders to live in the US. You're a joke.

Don't speak of that which you do not know as you're the one that looks the fool

Sorry Meede! those are not lies. Or do you contend that the Engish and Candian system are not in danger of collapse? That's nice for you and your sister, but it doesn't change the economic realities of those systems.

@Paul and IntheMiddle:

You have a link other than Fox that shows specific leaders coming here for their healthcare?

Fred,

Sure do:

"Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams is seeking heart surgery in the United States, drawing criticism from “local bloggers and people calling in to the province’s immensely popular open-line radio shows.” Yet his actions are hardly unusual for world leaders. Saudi Arabian King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz is known to have his checkups at the prestigious Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn. Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi had heart surgery at the Cleveland Clinic in 2006 . Even middle-class Canadians are utilizing their proximity to the United States to seek treatment here."

"And wait patients must. A hospital survey of five countries (United States, Canada, New Zealand, United Kingdom and Australia), conducted by Robert Blendon and colleagues in Health Affairs found that “waits of six months or more for elective surgeries were reported to occur ‘very often’ or ‘often’ by 26–57 percent of executives in the four non-U.S. countries; only 1 percent of U.S. hospitals reported this. Half of all Canadian hospitals reported an average waiting time of over six months for a 65-year-old male requiring a routine hip replacement; no American hospital administrators reported waits this long."

In session for 5 days now and you forgot about the last two years.......

Do you hate rich Americans too? I bet you work for a rich American, and if the Gov didn't take so much of his money he could give more to you. Or even better you could take the initiative and make your self rich like the 80% of rich people did for themselves. That is right 80% of rich people started out with nothing, it wasn't given too them by mommy and daddy or anyone else.

Yeah, he's laughing. Cause what with the administrative changes and tax laws he's been churning out it looks like something else. Something like bailing out a sinking ship.

But you go with laughing. I'm sure he finds it really funny that 26 out of 50 states are suing for repeal.

I am in health care and have lived abroad. You have your head in the sand. Heatlh care in america is the best. The only place that has areas that they are ahead of the US is Germany and that is becuase much of their research was done under very different ethics values. Oh, and by the way Health care reform did NOT save you son's life because nothing at this time has been done to advance research in the field of blood since the bill was signed.

chemdmd....

You are right. the US has the best healthcare on the planet... for those who can afford it.

Actually, also for those that can't afford it. I bet you can NOT name one person that was denied life saving emergency care.

Before you make comments you should read the bill to get your comments correct. Your comment on homeowners is only partially correct. This bill is helping the people and not the insurance companies with whom the republicans would prefer to help.

SERVICE. But hey don't take my word for it - head on over to England, Canada, Cuba, or where ever. Private industry always provides a better and more efficient service than the government.

But I know Insurance companies are EEVVVILLL!

Service? What service?

Oh and I lived in Canada for over 25 years and you have zero idea of what you are talking about.

You know service like you get at the post office, DMV. You know, like the ability to run a program efficiently and on budget, like Fed ex or Wal-mart, not like Medicare of Social security.

And yeah the Canada system is great! Nobody comes here from there for treatment. Right.

So Spanky

You say "Private industry always provides a better and more efficient service than the government."

Here are a few things you want to eliminate:

The entire US Military.

Social Security and Medicare for your parents.

All Police and Firefighters.

All Border Protection.

The FBI.

The list of things I do not want private industry involved in goes on and on.

Oh and by the way, many of the advances in medical science came from government grants or facilities.

Amen! but I can tell you what Insurance was developed for. It was originally set up as a catastrophic coverage. people would pool money together in hopes that they wouldn't be the one to get sick and need the money, but if they were the one to get sick then they would get to use the money pooled together. So I say the Insurance company serves no purpose so why mandate that we must have something that serves no purpose. you shouldn't have to buy something that as you say " What service? "

Allow me to share some facts. I use an asthma inhaler that cost $35 a couple of years ago. Since then I've "gained" drug coverage from my insurance. The same inhaler now costs $253, of which my copay is $40. So, my out of pocket cost went up by 13%, and my insurance costs were also increased to cover my pharmaceuticals. Great racket!

In the Middle:

Man you need to find yourself another hook. There is only one IntheMiddle.........

kick rocks......

RE-peat-the-lie-to-the-PUBLIC-ans, that is what they are paid to do.

This is just more respectful dialog from Democrats against anyone who disagrees with them, even their own card carrying members.

Proved beneficial? Really? How so, cause from what i have seen it hasn't done anything but cause insurance companies to raise thier rates dramatically higher in the face of the law, and as so many said, we wont even see the full effect of the law until 2014. So please elaborate, how the F**k has this been beneficial to anyone?

actually VP Cheney works for the government and as a benefit from his employer he was given health-care, if you want the same benefits go work for the government, oh wait as a health care provider i see what the benefits of the non-elected officials are, and they are nothing like what the federal elected benefits are. Obama care is not what congress has. If it was the middle man couldn't afford the premiums.

Umm.. Actually Oklahoma is considered a Norther state as it is above the MD line.... Just saying...

Gee, do you live in a liberal district? Maybe that's why your elected official voted the way he/she voted. He/she doesn't only represent you, he/she represents about 600,000 people.

Since you did not indicate, I am just taking a guess that the "smart people in DC" you are referring to would be the ones who did not vote for this poorly named bill to repeal the beginning of allowing every American to get quality health care. I know it isn't perfect, but it sure is a good start.

For all of you say the mandate is unconstitutional, guess what, its a tax, with a credit if you have health insurance. Now, tell me how a tax is unconstitutional.

The Republican's don't like anything done by a Democratic President. The President could come up with a way to have a budget surplus, pay off the national debt, eliminate all income tax and give every U.S. Citizen $50,000 and it would not be acceptable because he did it.

If the Democrats and President Obama proposed a bill that read "America is the Best Country in the History of the World" or "America is a White Christian Nation"....the Republicans would vote against it.

I couldnt have said it better myself @ duh..The republicans are the party of no! If obama were to bring the troops home and save the country about 600 billion dollars we dont have to keep fighting a war we didnt need to be a part of,they would still have a problem with it.