To say nothing of the impossibility of finding an impartial jury.

Look, folks, it is cases like this that truly try our commitment to the protections embodied in our Constitution. We cannot limit them in "some" cases- they would be limited for all.

This is not a proper moment for political grandstanding. In order for Loughner to get a fair trial, it will absolutely have to be moved.

AZ has some of the most lenient gun laws in the nation. Add to that Governor Brewers unwillingness to properly treat the mentally ill and what you have is a recipe for ‘tragedy’!

It ALWAYS boils down to the almight $$$ with the right!

Earlier this year, Gov. Jan Brewer signed off on a $36 million reduction in funding to the Arizona Department of Health Services as part of an effort to close the state's billion-dollar budget gap.

The cuts, which included a wide swath of treatments and services for the mentally ill, impacted about 12,000 adults and 2,000 children not covered by the Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System, the state's Medicaid program.

Arizona's mental-health system became "a benchmark" for other agencies looking at cuts in the state's budget discussions. Any agency wanting its program saved would have to prove why those programs were more important than funneling money back into behavioral health.

Publicly, Brewer called the cuts "tough" and "very painful."

The governor has firsthand experience with the benefits those services bring to families, although she did not acknowledge it at the time. Her son, Ronald, has lived at the Arizona State Hospital for most of the past 20 years, following a court's determination that he was not guilty of sexual assault and kidnapping because of mental illness

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/azelections/articles/2010/09/14/20100914jan-brewer-son-mental-illness.html#ixzz1BJ8DbNhY

Friday’s MSNBC feisty redhead show, staring Mr. Ed Schultz, was so HILLARYOUSLY funny I almost broke my hip falling out of my chair laughing at him.

Mr. Ed had Rep. Dennis Kucinich on as a guest. Kucinich, is a usually reliable Mr. Ed-type lefty liberal kook that Mr. Ed usually can 100% count on to reinforce his own moronic point of view.

Sadly, HILLARYOUSLY, Kucinich disappointed Mr. Ed, BIG TIME!!!

When Mr. Ed set up the bait question for Kucinich to launch into a lefty liberal rant criticizing John Boehner, Kucinich said “John Boehner is not a ‘bomb thrower’ and I can work with him, even though I disagree with him on most issues,”

Poor Mr. Ed, the look on his face was that of a 5 year old who had just been told by his mother that Santa Claus wasn’t real.

Imagine his feeling of HORROR!!!!!

He tried to bait Kucinich into saying something nasty (Mr. Ed is a redhead) about Boehner two more times, but Kucinich wouldn’t take the bait.

Dennis Kucinich being the “voice of reason” on the Mr. Ed Show???

You couldn’t make this stuff up if you tried!!!!

Joe: Youir world must be pretty small, I'd guess.

So sad. But hey- enjoy.

Youir world must be pretty small

As Joe demonstrates daily... small 'minds' are easily amused! lol

Earlier this year, Gov. Jan Brewer signed off on a $36 million reduction in funding to the Arizona Department of Health Services as part of an effort to close the state's billion-dollar budget gap.

Nice catch there Feisty. But I doubt the apologists on the right will want to hold her accountable either.

"Joe", what does any of what you say have to do with this post?

Memo to "Steve": Here would have been an appropriate point to have a further discussion about Tucson, not the posts about the RNC.

Joe in Albany-

Imagine his feeling of HORROR!!!!!

He tried to bait Kucinich into saying something nasty (Mr. Ed is a redhead) about Boehner two more times, but Kucinich wouldn't take the bait.

I see again you bring your "Stupid Contest Trivia" question. What's that your stupid question #????

Why don't you go to the red head Eric Erickson's red state website, tickle your tongue, and catch a falling GOP star there?

In east coast parlance fuhgeddaboudit. It was just an answer.

Hey Fiesty - you are totally correct, it does always come down to money. How are those new Ill. tax rates working out for you?

Seriously, Joe, you inadvertently proved the liberal case we've been making about vitriolic hate speech for two years. I saw the Ed Show and there was no such disappointment as you claim. Perhaps the only disappointed people were the republicans hoping to see democrats engage in the same uncivil and demonizing tactics they have used. What I saw was a legislator doing his best to dial it back, turn down the volume and I applaud the effort of every politician left or right in that effort. It is overdue.

Spanky-

I have the answer to your questions about Revs. Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson on the previous thread in case you are still interested.

From what I heard discussed on Countdown Friday evening, Governor Brewer had worked tirelessly to get better mental health care when she was a AZ State legislator and she commented that signing that $34? million dollar cut was the hardest thing she had done. Countdown made a point to emphasize both her efforts in AZ Congress and her comment. I can't attest to her sincerity but I do think such draconian cuts are happening nationwide as states struggle with budget short falls as the economy slowly recovers from a near depression. The question and the difficulty is whether the AZ legislature (and other states) establish realistic priorities for what can be postponed in order to save much needed services.

Jody- we need to keep in mind, too, when discussing Ed Schultz;

He DOES bring the oppostion on his program regularly (Heidi Harris, Mike Medved, etc), and he actually lets them talk, unlike some of the 'shows' on 'fair and Balanced'.

But then again, Drive methinks you missed the point - Kucinch is hardly "the opposition."

Da noi8d..

here we go away. You seem to want to tell me where its Appropriate to post something or Not. Agian why is it you feel the need to try and Control where i post something.. Again. YOu and yoru liberal Friends post Off Topic subjects all the time . As i have proved. and then you Ran from the Subject.

Nice catch there Feisty. But I doubt the apologists on the right will want to hold her accountable either.

Thanks Indy! Let's not forget Governor Brewer and her now infamous 'Death Panels'.

Tragic news out of Arizona: a second person has died after being cut from the transplant list to save money. This is a real life death panel, and yet passes almost unnoticed. The National Right to Life doesn’t seem to have anything to say about this, while spilling enormous amounts of ink trying to show that the Affordable Care Act is full of murderous health care rationing. It’s time to call out this corrupt and bloated organization for what it is – a partisan fund-raising outfit whose definition of “pro-life” is selective and relativistic. They see health care rationing as a huge issue, especially in Medicare. So where were they when the GOP sought to cut Medicare by 14 percent in 1995 and 13 percent in 1997? Where were they when the GOP voted against protecting or strengthening Medicare nearly 60 times over the past decade? Where were they when recent Republican budget proposals would practically destroy Medicare? Where were they when Paul Ryan presented his plan to cut Medicare by 76 percent

http://vox-nova.com/2011/01/07/arizonas-death-panels-and-the-craven-silence-of-the-national-right-to-life-committee/

http://www.truth-out.org/killing-poor-instead-taxing-wealthy-arizona65214

Thanks to the 'Executionar in Chief' two more families have lost loved ones...

So yeah... money now trumps human life according to some...

It is a myth, and a lie, that governments can continue to cut taxes (which are at their lowest in decades in most places) while continuing to spend like a wannabe millionaire on a pauper's salary. So if you don't want the cuts, then you maybe ought to realize that sooner or later you cannot continue to have a first rate country without taxes. Waiting for it.......

It's like having a credit card that somehow you fool yourself into believe you will never really have to pay back!

What I don't like is everyone's getting cuts in salaries and jobs and sinking us into a less likely situation that we will be able to pull ourselves out from. What I do like is the new normal I am seeing in families of thinking before they pull out their credit cards, or staying home to watch a movie and eat popcorn (Feisty's favorite food) or home cooking meals....maybe we will all get thinner and actually be able to converse with our chiildren and neighbors again! Every dark cloud....

As for mental health issues, they have been hidden under the rug for decades. The homeless mostly have mental problems that they are unable to deal with. A lot of veterans do too. And it is virtually impossible to get them help. This hue and cry about the mentally ill is the fault of cutting back of funding and placements for those who really need it. Maybe those tax cuts for richest 2% could have gone for something more important for our health and economy than to put more bucks into the richest coffers who don't need it.

Drive-by. Good point, Ed brings republicans on his show and gives them the opportunity to express their views.

Cathy M. Cheers to you for speaking the truth. At some point when do Americans connect the dots on taxes and the difference between having a first rate state or country and one that barely functions. I'm not saying outrageous taxes on people but fair and balanced taxes. I'm old enough to remember a time when complaining about taxes was just part of life but people knew and recognized that the street running past their house and the snow plow to clear it cost money--shared expense, shared sacrifice, shared benefits.

Cathy M

I agree. The foolish tax breaks for the 2% could have gone to improved funding for those mentally ill or any number of other worthwhile programs.

Whether it be the federal government or state government the republican mantra of cut, cut, the deficit will not solve problems. The cuts will only create a whole new set of problems.

Steve,

Today was just about trying to push your button...thanks for not disappointing.

Yea, the government can fix all problems and give you what ever you want, just have to cry and wine - "that's not fair".

You want better treatment for the mentally ill. Quit killing the energy industry, let them create jobs and help let keep the cost of living from sky-rocketing. Quit passing 2,500 pages of new FinRef regulations that just the big guys really big guys and snuff the little guys. Repeal HCR.

Idiots mock the job killing aspects of this. Does it not occur to any of you that when you mandate coverage that will cost $12,500 a year for families of 4, you are adding cost. That is a cost of $5.89 per hour! Minimum wage just went from $7.25 to $13.14. Sheez.

I don't care about the wine - that is a fact. That is why McDonalds had to apply for a waiver so they won't be forced to lay off. Not just kids flipping hamburgers either, A lot of the big unions are doing the same thing such as the American Federation of Teachers. (Their insurance wasn't good enough?)

Higher labor costs means fewer jobs. Duh.

The economic mess we are in in today is due to government engineering. Never works, whether that's fair or not - it doesn't work.

When will you guys get a clue.

Nice spin by Fiesty as usual. Trying to only use certain facts to make the 'right' look bad. Trying to blame AZ and Brewer for all this.

Truth be told, 31 states have cut Health Services funding since 2008. Including Illinois as well as Arizona

In fact her beloved Gov. Quinn has cut $576 million from health services in 2010 alone

"Another one of those cuts comes from Human Services. They will lose $576 million out of their budget. More than $60 million will come from operations which will impact local offices, state psychiatric hospitals, and developmental centers.

The other almost $516 million will be taken from grants. That will reduce or eliminate non-Medicaid programs in mental health, developmental disabilities, and rehabilitative services. It also extends payment cycles for developmental disabilities programs, and reduces community health and prevention programs."

I thought after a week of bantering about civility maybe we could also be told the truth too ... but not by some. Especially those that scream the loudest.

For some reason it wasn't posting the links I had for the articles

www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1214

www.ksdk.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=211760

www.connecttristates.com/news/story.aspx?id=492150

I thought after a week of bantering about civility maybe we could also be told the truth too ... but not by some.

Please, by all means point out where in my post I embelished the truth!

Nice 'dig' too bad it doesn't pass the 'smell' test!

Simple you 'painted' it as if only Brewer and her budget cuts are to blame. You didn't tell the whole truth how over half the nation is cutting budgets. You did your usual spin just to try and vilify

"Add to that Governor Brewers unwillingness to properly treat the mentally ill and what you have is a recipe for 'tragedy'!

It ALWAYS boils down to the almight $$$ with the right!"

Need to add another name to your "I'm not in their league" list, Feisty?

Da Noid

"Steve,

Today was just about trying to push your button...thanks for not disappointing."

Careful, Noid- Staples might come after you for infringement on that 'Easy' button thing....

Need to add another name to your "I'm not in their league" list, Feisty?

Well look at that! For once I agree with you!

I left 'rookie' status a long time ago! ;o)

Do keep trying hon... you've still got a ways to go!

Your buddy neglected to include my point of AZ having some the most lenient gun laws in the nation along with cuts to mental health!

I'm not aware of my beloved Governor Quinn proposing 'concealed carry' or 'guns in bars' or... I think you get the idea!

Nothing says the Wild West like booze & bullets!

Last year, two men showed up in Benson, Ariz., a small desert town 60 miles from the Mexico border, offering a deal.

Glenn Nichols, the Benson city manager, remembers the pitch.

"The gentleman that's the main thrust of this thing has a huge turquoise ring on his finger," Nichols said. "He's a great big huge guy and I equated him to a car salesman."

What he was selling was a prison for women and children who were illegal immigrants.

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130833741

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL,

There is no money to be made from the Department of Health.

I left 'rookie' status a long time ago! ;o)

Now just a mascot in the minors?

More typical Feisty... can't argue and was called out for it, so time to switch subjects.

Lets see...guns..... blame the wild west eh? Didn't find 2010 but... Gun violence in the US in 2009

Gun homicides per 100,000 pop.

Illinois = 4.59

Arizona = 4.54

So I guess concealing guns isn't the problem.... In fact congrats to Chicago for having their lowest murder rate in 45 years... and to think this comes after the Supreme Court reversed their ban on handguns as unconstitutional back in June.

This might be enlightening too...

newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2010/03/29/msnbc-shocker-firearms-deaths-fall-gun-restrictions-ease

Oh wait I'll be chastised for using anti-liberal material there. Oh well I'll just wait for it

I don't think there will be such a thing as an impartial jury no matter where this trial is held. The media monster has made sure that anyone who pays the least bit of attention to the world around himself has heard of the case. Opinions have been spewed from every direction for a week. Yeah, if you've not been in a coma, you've heard about the case and if you're honest, you've probably formed an opinion...

On the other hand, Jody, if he is going to mount an insanity defense, I think the publicity might actually help Loughner---he sure looks odd in the photos they show on TV. Everything you hear paints the picture of a highly disturbed individual. Not the same as the legal definition of insanity, I know, but certainly a start.

Jody, That dupnik of a sheriff has already destroyed any impartiality to judge this case. You can thank him. Your buddies the ACLU has got this case pinned down for an aquittal or some lenient sentence.

I know in most states you can have a person committed for up to 72 hours; but then what? If they are not clinically "crazy" then they get put back out on the streets where they are angrier than they were before. I had problems with one of my kids years ago that I felt he was very distanced from everyone and was falling farther and farther behind in school, etc. I took him to a psychologist, but he would not talk and the therapist said this was not doing any good. A few years later when he was on his own, after much pot and other drugs, he decided he was going to join some group - the flower children or something - and worked out a whole map of states and their homeless rules and regulations. At this time he was an adult. And I had practically turned grey trying to get to him. And there is nothing anyone else can do if he was not cooperative.

He did go on his homeless journey for almost six months - and believe me I cannot tell you the fears I had about that - about perhaps never hearing from him again, etc. Or that he would be killed and I would never know it. He started out in Atlanta with nothing but a backpack. Went to Michigan, to Denver, to Mississippi (where he got arrested for possession of pot). Then on to California, Arizona, etc. Then he came back home. Still very much detached and still very much on pot, etc. Now this is a child who was very smart, very intelligent, but very detached and depressed.

I really had not much hope of him ever holding a job or doing anything other than communal living. But I and he was among the lucky. He finally met a decent girl, got a decent job, and has a baby son and they are saving to purchase a home. We just got lucky.

Not everyone gets so lucky with their child. I had three others that were not like this. I did everything I could, but he had to straighten himself out. And not everyone can straighten themselves out. And parents need to have help from outside at times. However, I see the things that were in these parents yard, the skulls, etc., and I will tell you that I would not have allowed that to go on. There has to be a certain standard of what parents will allow or won't allow in their own homes. No matter my fears, if he was living in my home there would have been some standard of behavior. And sure as crap, there would have been no guns. And if school or others had presented him to me as that angry and disturbed then I would have had him committed.

And that is not to say I am totally against guns, I just don't want them out where I can see them or where anyone else could get to them. And that goes for my kids, no matter what age. A gun is only made for one thing, harming or killing something else, animal or human. My husband had a shotgun as his was a farm family and it was his grandfather's. And a hunting rifle. But certainly no gun made for going on a killing rampage. Somewhere there has to be some common sense used.

Cathy--your journey with your son sounds like it had a happy ending---so many don't. It is so hard for parents to do "tough love" with their children but sometimes it is the only thing that helps.

lol, Beverly in Chicago! enough said!!

likely a truthbagger.

Which "facts" are those Bev.? The Jan Brewer cut the budget = jan Brewer killed two people? You are awsome. Jan Brewer is a killer. Is it your contention that those two died because of budget cuts? Really?

Ok Bev. Fiesty doesn't wish to respond so I'll ask you: how are you liking your new taxes? Do you think the increase will cause an net gain, or net loss in tax revenue collected?

Spanky,

They can't pinned Loughner as a Republican/TEA Party, so now they need to attack somebody, so why not the Governor or Arizona.

When the left went crazy about Loughner being linked to the TEA Party and the mud throwing towards Palin about her"Target Map", hey failed to step back and understand what is/was going on. Now that the Liberals know what crow taste like they shifted their anger towards somebody else.

When I mentioned some of you are two steps behind this Louchner guy, this was just my opinion and reading this article, I can say some of you acually think like this guy. There's one person on here that thinks like him and I won't mention his name, I'm sure some of you can figure it out. This is from the NYT, a Liberal paper:

"He became intrigued by antigovernment conspiracy theories, including that the Sept. 11 attacks were perpetrated by the government and that the country's central banking system was enslaving its citizens. His anger would well up at the sight of President George W. Bush, or in discussing what he considered to be the nefarious designs of government."

I think it's funny as hell that Ill passed a 66% increase in taxes in the middle of the night and with the blessing of their Governor. Heck, they deserve it, even New York and California is realizing that cutting speading is the logical answer.

A family making 60K will pay more than $1100 in new taxes? NICE!!!! I bet Indiana or Wisconsin is looking good right now.

No need to be civil...she's just another "typical liberal", right?

...at least that's what you'll tell yourself so you can avoid having an real conversation.

The trial establishes that the elements of a crime were committed; if Loughner raises an insanity defense, the facts of the crime don't take long to prove and the focus moves to whether he meets the legal definition of insane.

Loughner still has rights just like Hinckley...one of those is the right to a trial by jury.

drive-by-observer

I mean, if the guy's so goofed that he doesn't realize what he did was wrong, he won't likely realize he's in permanent detention, either. Nor would he care)

Ohhhhhh, but wait until or if he discovers he is in a government building. It'll be crazy. I wonder if he will ever be on MSNBC's Lock-up?

Why does this screwball get a trial at all?

The fifth and sixth amendments?

Guys- I know it's the law and the way we do things here. That's why I said I'd probably get creamed. And mayby rightly so. It just seems like a waste somehow in a case like this one...

Drive by, I think he should get all the due process of law for that is in our Constitution. I'd want the same for myself if I ever commit a crime. And that goes for everyone. We know that everyone saw him do it and run. But I think he should hang for child murder. It hurts me to think he shot a nine year old for no reason at all. No easy death for him by injection. That's child's play. Hang him with piano wire after he is tried. I say.

Juven - Does he deserve the piano wire? Yeah, but the Constitution that gives him due process also says we can't use the piano wire.

Ain't that a shame?

Drive-by, My thoughts exactly. Is there really going to be a trial? I think if you're tackled with the weapon in your hand, or recorded on video tape, when it's without reasonable doubt that you committed the crime, forget the trial. Move right on to the penalty phase and decide whether he's certifiably insane or just criminally insane.

The trial is his right, our right, and our solemn obligation. For the Constitution's sake people, can we stop having this unamerican conversation every time a guy that we all quickly call a "nutjob" goes to trial? Every time, people think it is time to do away with our obligation. He is entitled to claim insanity. We must prove that he understood that what he did was wrong, hence the trial. Stop attacking a system of justice which is the envy of the world and learn to live with the results of FAIRLY conducted investigations and trials.